################### From: AppleCakeTeaRoom at aol.com (AppleCakeTeaRoom@aol.com) Date: Sat Jan 1 13:20:01 2005 Subject: [CP] Narcotic Effect of CPs Happy New Years to everyone! May it be a prosperous year for CP habitats. Thank you Dave and everyone who responded to my question about the upper pitchers in Nepenthes, it was exactly as I had thought. I've got one quick question, does anyone know the name or names of the compounds in Sarracenias and Nepenthes which cause the drunken like effect in insects, which lowers their inhibitions, before they make a wrong step and tumble into the pitfall traps? I remember reading the name of at least one compound in a research paper, but for the life of me, I just can't find that information any longer. Much appreciated, thank you! ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Sat Jan 1 16:36:59 2005 Subject: [CP] Edward VII and Sarracenia Happy New Year CPers, I will start the year off with a curious historical finding for you Sarracenia lovers. It seems there are Sarracenia pitchers depicted in a very old oil painting of Edward VII, King of England. You can have a look at what Ed Read and I found in the articles on the Los Angeles CP Society web site www.geocities.com/lacps. Here is the link: http://www.geocities.com/lacps/kingedward.html . Maybe others can track down more info on this. Ed first spotted it as we were studying a book and jokingly said, "hey, check out the pitcher plants in this painting". After looking at the image more, I can't think of anything else but pitcher the objects could be. What do you all think? Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ________________________________________________________________ Juno Gift Certificates Give the gift of Internet access this holiday season. http://www.juno.com/give ################### From: david.ahrens at btopenworld.com (DAVID AHRENS) Date: Sun Jan 2 03:50:13 2005 Subject: [CP] germinating and storing butterwort and bladderwort seed ################### From: parsont at peak.org (Louise Parsons) Date: Sun Jan 2 04:40:28 2005 Subject: [CP] Edward VII and Sarracenia Golly, I hope that I am wrong on this, because it is so much more fun to think of pitchers. However, I am pretty certain that those are the typical stylized feathers of the Royal Family. They appear in the modern-day crest of the Prince of Wales. See: http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/ Happy New Year to all CP enthusiasts. Although I am an experienced gardener, I am new to CP. All of the tiny new seedling pitchers that are growing in pots on my screened back porch are such a joy. All the best, Louise Corvallis, ORegon http://www.peak.org/~parsont/rockgard/ > > > Happy New Year CPers, I will start the year off with a curious > historical finding for you Sarracenia lovers. It seems there are > Sarracenia pitchers depicted in a very old oil painting of Edward VII, > King of England. You can have a look at what Ed Read and I found in > the articles on the Los Angeles CP Society web site > www.geocities.com/lacps. Here is the link: > http://www.geocities.com/lacps/kingedward.html . ################### From: cp at pwilson.demon.co.uk (Phil Wilson) Date: Sun Jan 2 05:18:55 2005 Subject: [CP] Edward VII and Sarracenia Louise, Ivan et al, You are absolutely right. No pitchers or aliens from out of space. The "pitchers" are in fact the Prince of Wales' Feathers. See http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/about/rol_feathers.html for details. Before becoming king he would of course have been given the traditional title of Prince of Wales. This despite probably only having a vague idea where Wales was....:-) Phil Wilson --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Are you still wasting your time with spam?... There is a solution!" Protected by GIANT Company's Spam Inspector The most powerful anti-spam software available. http://mail.spaminspector.com ----- Original Message ----- To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" Cc: Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 12:42 PM > Golly, I hope that I am wrong on this, because it is so much more fun to > think > of pitchers. However, I am pretty certain that those are the typical > stylized > feathers of the Royal Family. They appear in the modern-day crest of the > Prince > of Wales. See: > > http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/ > > > Happy New Year to all CP enthusiasts. Although I am an experienced > gardener, I > am new to CP. All of the tiny new seedling pitchers that are growing in > pots on > my screened back porch are such a joy. > > All the best, Louise > Corvallis, ORegon > http://www.peak.org/~parsont/rockgard/ > >> >> Happy New Year CPers, >> I will start the year off with a curious historical finding for you >> Sarracenia >> lovers. It seems there are Sarracenia pitchers depicted in a very old oil >> painting of Edward VII, King of England. You can have a look at what Ed >> Read and >> I found in the articles on the Los Angeles CP Society web site >> www.geocities.com/lacps. Here is the link: >> http://www.geocities.com/lacps/kingedward.html . > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Sun Jan 2 09:50:09 2005 Subject: [CP] Cool Sarracenia web page Yeah, I know, this isn't about Drosera, but I thought some of you might like this web page I found recently: http://hometown.aol.com/atlfinegardens/page1.html Happy new year, MaTT -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sun Jan 2 12:11:10 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Royal Crest Sorry Ivan those are definatly feathers. Tre ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sun Jan 2 12:12:41 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: wilkerson red So thats what my 'wilkerson red' will look like when they are all grown up ;) ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Sun Jan 2 13:52:32 2005 Subject: [CP] etc..., ETC Really!! Hey Mike!! Happy 2005!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry for taking so long to reply!! I got caught up with all the festivities! ;) > The reason I emailed was to ask you the camera that you used to take the > pictures of the sundews? You probably told me in Mexico but I do not > remember. Could you refresh my memory? It's a Nikon 5400! > PS. The trip to Macchu Piccu never happened because of a couple of > hurricanes. Maybe you heard about that? Anyway, glad I was here to protect > my stuff! Geez, what a bummer!!!!!!! Take Care, Fernando ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Sun Jan 2 14:33:15 2005 Subject: [CP] etc..., ETC Really!! Oops! Sorry guys, that was supposed to have been a private mail! ;) ----- Original Message ----- To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 07:52 PM ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Sun Jan 2 18:50:18 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: D. oblanceeolata Dave & Ivan, Sorry to reply late to your posts about D.meristocaulis, D.oblanceolata, D.spatulata & D.neocaledonica, but here goes... First, I think D.meristocaulis will probably NOT be fertile with any pygmy, but it's worth a try! They do seem to be more closely related, but we don't know yet for sure. As for D.oblanceolata, D.spatulata, & D.neocaledonica they're all very close, especially D.the latter 2. The main difference between D.oblanceolata & D.spatulata is that the former has a little apical split in the styles, if I remember well. Otherwise D.oblanceolata is a large D.spatulata with semi-erect leaves. D.neocaledonica doesn't look superficially like D.oblanceolata & D.spatulata, but it is very close to the spatulata-complex according to DNA data. In fact they are all found at a very interesting spot of the phylogenetic tree, where 3 important sundew branches emerge: -- A mostly 2n=20 branch which includes New World & N temperate species like D.rotundifolia, D.filiformis, D.capillaris, D.roraimae, D.communis, D.hirtella, D.felix, D.kaieteurensis, D.brevifolia, D.intermedia & D.cayennensis. -- A branch with 2n=40 species found mostly in Brazil: D.villosa complex, D.montana complex, D.graminifolia & D.chrysolepis -- An "multiploid" branch that includes almost all the African species (except D.indica, D.regia & D.insolita I think) all the way from D.natalensis to D.cistiflora The interesting part of finding D.oblanceolata, D.spatulata & D.neocaledonica located more or less at the base of these 3 branches suggests that all those plants are probably descended from plants that originated somewhere between Asia & Australia/ NZ. Just below these 3 branches on the family tree is a small branch with 2 species: D.uniflora from Chile/ Argentina and D.stenopetala from New Zealand.... hmmm more hints that the ancestors of these plants were all located around Australia/ NZ (and maybe Antarctica at some point in time). Happy 2005 to all, Fernando Rivadavia Sao Paulo, Brazil ################### From: stephenwd at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Davis) Date: Sun Jan 2 20:41:32 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Royal Crest I read once that alcoholics will see a fifth wherever they look. They have been known to reach into someones back pocket, steal their wallet, only to be disappointed to find that that bulge in the back pocket was not a fifth of alcohol, but a useless wallet. Stephen Davis stephenwd@sbcglobal.net www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com -----Original Message----- Of Tre Bond Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 12:11 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Sorry Ivan those are definatly feathers. Tre __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: ClaraVoiAunt at aol.com (ClaraVoiAunt@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 2 23:13:21 2005 Subject: [CP] This isn't Drosera Matt, Thanx for sharing this page. It is wonderful. It also led me to some other pages of the ICPS that I haven't been able to access . Lois In a message dated 1/2/05 12:02:49 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: To: "cp list" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Yeah, I know, this isn't about Drosera, but I thought some of you might like this web page I found recently: http://hometown.aol.com/atlfinegardens/page1.html Happy new year, MaTT ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Mon Jan 3 04:28:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Narcotic Effect of CPs Christine asked about the narcotic substances in Sarracenia and Nepenthes, which drug the insect visiters to these plants. The substance in Sarracenia is coniine. I wasn't too sure that Nepenthes secrete a paralysing substance. I have looked this up in 'The Carnivorous Plants' by Juniper Robins and Joel. On page 242, they discuss the paralysing and wetting agents that might be secreted by carnivorous plants. They say that only Sarracenia contains a paralysing agent in it's trap, it is alone in the CP world for having an agent of this sort. Page 62 also says that it is suggested that Nepenthes pitcher fluid contains a wetting agent. It goes on to say that there is little evidence for this. I am a little bit confused because page 62 says that the liquid in the base of the pitcher has a 'soapiness' about it and says that this may be the result of polysaccharides discharged into the pitcher fluid. So there does seem to be evidence of a wetting agent in the traps, the book seems to contradict itself. Hope this helps. Regards David Ahrens. London. ################### From: dglidden at illusionary.com (Derek Glidden) Date: Mon Jan 3 08:55:35 2005 Subject: [CP] Narcotic Effect of CPs David Ahrens wrote: > Christine asked about the narcotic substances in Sarracenia and > Nepenthes, which drug the insect visiters to these plants. > The substance in Sarracenia is coniine. > They say that only Sarracenia > contains a paralysing agent in it's trap, it is alone in the CP world > for having an agent of this sort. I could swear that I've read somewhere that certain species of Nepenthes also contain some sort of anaesthetising agent in the pitchers. In particular, I remember references to species like N.inermis with open pitchers, and for some reason I also want to think that N.alata was mentioned. After reading and discovering that I was growing a couple of species mentioned, I even did very unscientific experiements by dropping crickets into the larger pitchers and jiggling them around to see how long I could keep them moving, and the species mentioned definitely had a much shorter time before the crickets stopped wriggling around in the pitcher fluid. Of course whatever it was I was reading could have been wrong and my experiment was totally bogus in terms of real science, but Christine isn't the only person to have heard that some Nepenthes may have anaesthetic or narcotic properties. ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Mon Jan 3 09:54:07 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Edward VII and Sarracenia Hi Louise, Phil, and all, Gee, that had not even occured to me. That clears up that mystery, thanks. The objects surely are feathers. Oh well, on to other mysteries. Ivan ________________________________________________________________ Juno Gift Certificates Give the gift of Internet access this holiday season. http://www.juno.com/give ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Mon Jan 3 14:15:57 2005 Subject: [CP] Narcotic Effect of CPs Dear Derek, The special technique _Nepenthes inermis_ uses to catch prey involves a sticky substance which, conveyor-belt-like, flows down the walls of the inside of the pitchers. It is so viscous that rain has a difficult time washing away anything already glued to it. _Nepenthes_, I feel, would have to be tested again and again for each species, in order to rule out this possibility. Think about how different some species are. I'm sure they are also able to make different chemicals, perhaps not those which drug insects, but we can't rule it out yet. Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of Derek Glidden Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 11:55 AM To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group David Ahrens wrote: > Christine asked about the narcotic substances in Sarracenia and > Nepenthes, which drug the insect visiters to these plants. > The substance in Sarracenia is coniine. > They say that only Sarracenia > contains a paralysing agent in it's trap, it is alone in the CP world > for having an agent of this sort. I could swear that I've read somewhere that certain species of Nepenthes also contain some sort of anaesthetising agent in the pitchers. In particular, I remember references to species like N.inermis with open pitchers, and for some reason I also want to think that N.alata was mentioned. ################### From: ThomBroGar at aol.com (ThomBroGar@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 3 14:38:39 2005 Subject: [CP] Re:"Wilkerson's Red" Tre, What I sent you was seed from "Wilkerson's Red" open pollinated in the field. Unfortunately, the seedlings I have are coming out more leuco. and moorei than true to "Wilkerson's Red." I hope you are not to disappointed. I was but, that's the way the genes fall sometimes. ################### From: cp at pwilson.demon.co.uk (Phil Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 3 14:50:47 2005 Subject: [CP] Narcotic Effect of CPs Dave, That explains the tiny (fruit?) flies stuck to the inside of my N. inermis pitchers! Phil Wilson >The special technique _Nepenthes inermis_ uses to catch prey >involves a sticky substance which, conveyor-belt-like, flows down the walls >of the inside of the pitchers. It is so viscous that rain has a difficult >time washing away anything already glued to it. ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Mon Jan 3 16:51:30 2005 Subject: [CP] Nepenthes inermis Hi Phil, Yeah, I think this one is the only _Nepenthes_ that utilizes a passive fly-paper trap. While the fluid does flow down the walls into the pitcher, I don't think the plant actually makes more of this material in response to the presence of prey items, nor does the pitcher 'move', like how _Drosera_ do. Also, I'm not sure how effective the trap would be for moving prey into the digestive zone in lower humidity, perhaps it dries a bit and cannot flow, but becomes merely sticky? Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of Phil Wilson Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 5:51 PM To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Dave, That explains the tiny (fruit?) flies stuck to the inside of my N. inermis pitchers! Phil Wilson >The special technique _Nepenthes inermis_ uses to catch prey >involves a sticky substance which, conveyor-belt-like, flows down the walls >of the inside of the pitchers. It is so viscous that rain has a difficult >time washing away anything already glued to it. ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Mon Jan 3 22:25:24 2005 Subject: [CP] Narcotics in pitcher fluid Derek Glidden wrote:- I could swear that I've read somewhere that certain species of Nepenthes also contain some sort of anaesthetising agent in the pitchers. In particular, I remember references to species like N.inermis with open pitchers, and for some reason I also want to think that N.alata was mentioned. After reading and discovering that I was growing a couple of species mentioned, I even did very unscientific experiements by dropping crickets into the larger pitchers and jiggling them around to see how long I could keep them moving, and the species mentioned definitely had a much shorter time before the crickets stopped wriggling around in the pitcher fluid. Of course whatever it was I was reading could have been wrong and my experiment was totally bogus in terms of real science, but Christine isn't the only person to have heard that some Nepenthes may have anaesthetic or narcotic properties. Very interesting. Regards David Ahrens London PS- someone who hasn't got anything better to do with their time in the US government will be searching the web for references to narcotics and will find the CP listserv. We will all have to watch what we say from now on. Big Brother will be watching. :-) ################### From: Lars at Timmann.de (Lars Timmann) Date: Tue Jan 4 02:27:20 2005 Subject: [CP] Narcotics in pitcher fluid Hi, I hope you discuss silently about this. Not that we cannot send plants because of drugs inside infuture. Aren't they optical psychedelic enough ;-)? Happy new year and so on... Lars -- "There is always an easy solution to every human problem - neat, plausible and wrong." (Henry Louis Mencken (1880-1956) American journalist and social critic) _______________________________________________________________________ Lars Timmann Lars@Timmann.de http://lars.timmann.de/ http://www.fleischfressendepflanzen.de/ 22393 Hamburg ################### From: rhillier at swconnection.com (Rick Hillier) Date: Tue Jan 4 13:13:51 2005 Subject: [CP] Where Can I Purchase Cephalotus - I Live In Southern Ontario, Greetings, I just lost a cephalotus follicularis plant that I had for many years. It never really flourished, but it did grow slowly and stayed about the same size throughout its life. I don't think my conditions were optimal for it (soil-wise). I am looking to obtain several new plants that I could experiment with in terms of different soil mixes. Is there anyone out there who can ship within or to Canada (particularly, Southern Ontario)? I realize that it may be prudent to wait until spring unless someone is within driving distance of Kitchener, Ontario and I could arrange to pick them up in person. Also, would anyone who has had success be able to share their secrets??? While I'm at it, are there any species of Heliamphora that are relatively easy to grow, or do they need special requirements in terms of cool and humid. I can provide warm and humid via enclosed aquariums under either fluorescents or metal halides... Thanks in advance, Rick Hillier http://www.swconnection.com/cp ################### From: AppleCakeTeaRoom at aol.com (AppleCakeTeaRoom@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 4 22:28:05 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Narcotic Effect of CPs Thank you for the looking up the name! I couldn't recall what it was exactly but the drug name "codeine" kept popping into my head, although I know it wasn't the drug. But its "Coniine!" LOL, atleast I was close :-) I looked up a little about coniine, I found it to be quite interesting: _http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/webprojects2001/gerrard/coniine.html_ (http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/webprojects2001/gerrard/coniine.html) ~Christine the CPer and Lucy the Giant Schnauzer ################### From: westaustralia at libero.it (Cristiano Perrucci) Date: Wed Jan 5 00:53:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Where Can I Purchase Cephalotus - I Live In Southern Ontario, Hi Rick and all, no secrets to share by my side, just a few notes on Albany pitcher plant cultivation. I found Cephalotus is a really easy plant to grow, if compared with other Australian species, such as tropical sundews or some tuberous sundews. The reason is that Cephalotus is widely tolerant to lighting, temperature and humidity changes. At the same time, I observed quick decay in cultivated plants living in standing water. Examining wild plants in the Walpole shire, I had confirmation of that. Plants living where water never stands, are bigger and healthy. Before martyrise a woodland of cephalotus, my suggestion is to use a quite airy soil mix (eg. 50%peat and 50% perlite) and to irrigate pots from overhead preventing water stagnation in the tray. Some people, here, has got appreciable results with this trivial shrewdness. Cheers, Cristiano Perrucci, Genoa -Italy- > Greetings, > > I just lost a cephalotus follicularis plant that I had for many years. It > never really flourished, but it did grow slowly and stayed about the same > size throughout its life. I don't think my conditions were optimal for it > (soil-wise). I am looking to obtain several new plants that I could > experiment with in terms of different soil mixes. > > Is there anyone out there who can ship within or to Canada (particularly, > Southern Ontario)? I realize that it may be prudent to wait until spring > unless someone is within driving distance of Kitchener, Ontario and I could > arrange to pick them up in person. > > Also, would anyone who has had success be able to share their secrets??? > > While I'm at it, are there any species of Heliamphora that are relatively > easy to grow, or do they need special requirements in terms of cool and > humid. I can provide warm and humid via enclosed aquariums under either > fluorescents or metal halides... > > Thanks in advance, > > Rick Hillier > http://www.swconnection.com/cp > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ____________________________________________________________ Libero ADSL: 3 mesi gratis e navighi a 1.2 Mega. E poi hai l'Adsl senza limiti a meno di 1 euro al giorno. Abbonati subito senza costi di attivazione su http://www.libero.it ################### From: john.wilden at hmce.gsi.gov.uk (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) Date: Wed Jan 5 01:24:23 2005 Subject: [CP] CPN in UK Dear all, Anybody in the UK/ Europe received their December issue of the CPN yet? Regards John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ################### From: cwasson at cisco.com (craig wasson) Date: Wed Jan 5 09:56:11 2005 Subject: [CP] Where Can I Purchase Cephalotus - I Live In Southern Ontario, I agree with Cristiano - Cephalotus is VERY easy to grow if you don't treat it like a bog plant. In fact it's one of only two plants that I have which survived during a 10-year period when I lost interest in CP. My original ceph (purchased from World Insectivorous Plants when they were in the California central coast area) is now 25 years old despite very long periods of neglect. That plant was in a large glass jar growing in live sphagnum. I now have a dozen or so plants - seems the best planting mix is mostly sand with some peat. I grow them in non-draining pots with relatively low humidity and water them every week or two if they are in open pots - the glass jar get watered just a couple times a year. I also have one in the kitchen in a self watering pot which seems quite happy. When they crowd the container I grow them in I just pull off chunks of the plant to create new clones. It's also easy to start clones by pulling off a leaf. I have also pulled off pitchers to create clones but I find the regular leaves work better with nearly 100% success. Light does not seem to matter except low light produces very bright green pitchers and high light produces dark purple - almost black sometimes - pitchers. Humidity also seems to not matter much - the airtight jar growing in live sphagnum is a very happy plant, as is one growing in sand in one of those mini-terrariums with a big open hole at the top. All are clones of the same plant so the differences are all due to growing conditions. I don't understand why Cephalotus is so hard to find and so expensive, since it's so easy to grow. I guess it's because it takes 6 months to a year to get a decent sized plant from a pulled leaf. In 25 years of growing the original plant - and many clones - it has NEVER produced a flower. So I have never had a chance to try growing them from seed. Has anyone else out there had their Cephalotus produce flowers? What's the trick to make them flower? Most of my hard-to-flower plants produce flowers when I forget to water them and almost kill them. My heliamphoria recently rewarded my neglect with a flower. Craig ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Wed Jan 5 10:14:25 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: narcotic Nepenthes Hi all, I don't know if Nepenthes produces any narcotic. Nepenthes was given the name by Linnaeus after 'Nepenthe', a mythical drug which Helen learned about in Egypt. Nepenthe was a love potion which also drove away sorrow. Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ________________________________________________________________ Juno Gift Certificates Give the gift of Internet access this holiday season. http://www.juno.com/give ################### From: westaustralia at libero.it (Cristiano Perrucci) Date: Wed Jan 5 12:03:15 2005 Subject: [CP] Where Can I Purchase Cephalotus - I Live In Southern Ontario, Two of my plants produces flowers almost every year but, the plants are several years old and there are several growing points so I suppose the rhyzomes are thick. The pots are 12 and 15 cm tall. Pollination is easy as well as seeds production despite to seed germination that is almost utopia. Next time I try to put them in TC. Cristiano, IT > Has anyone else out there had their Cephalotus produce flowers? What's the > trick to make them flower? Most of my hard-to-flower plants produce flowers > when I forget to water them and almost kill them. My heliamphoria recently > rewarded my neglect with a flower. > > > Craig ____________________________________________________________ Libero ADSL: 3 mesi gratis e navighi a 1.2 Mega. E poi hai l'Adsl senza limiti a meno di 1 euro al giorno. Abbonati subito senza costi di attivazione su http://www.libero.it ################### From: david.ahrens at btopenworld.com (DAVID AHRENS) Date: Wed Jan 5 12:28:16 2005 Subject: [CP] Anybody received their CPN yet I was going to reply to this posting on my nepenthesdave email address but the listserv posting hasn't come through on that yet. John Wilden asked:- 'Dear all, Anybody in the UK/ Europe received their December issue of the CPN yet?' No Regards David Ahrens London ################### From: ClaraVoiAunt at aol.com (ClaraVoiAunt@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 5 13:35:37 2005 Subject: [CP] Cephalotus flowering In a message dated 1/5/05 12:02:44 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: Craig. You have jest discovered mother nature's way of continuing the species. Plants that feel that they are dying will produce seeds quicker than well cared for plants. i.e. that dandelion in the crack of you sidewalk. Not very big but still blooming , trying to get some seed produced before it croaks. Excuse me ...expires. Lois Most of my hard-to-flower plants produce flowers when I forget to water them and almost kill them. My heliamphoria recently rewarded my neglect with a flower. ################### From: Rklelaphe1 at aol.com (Rklelaphe1@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 5 17:07:53 2005 Subject: [CP] A quick plug for Sunbelle Exotics ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Wed Jan 5 20:25:54 2005 Subject: [CP] Narcotic Effect of CPs i think the paralyzing agent hypothesis is the result of watching insects drown in pitcher fluid. look! it's stopped moving! well, as we say in california: "duh?" (no offense to anyone who's stunned by a drowned insect no longer moving.) but i do believe there is a wetting agent, and it may be enhanced the very thing that attracts insects: the nectar. if you spritz the peristome as though it were being rained on, watch where the liquid drips. some of it is off the pitcher, but some of it drips into the pitcher and with impunity, since the waxy walls repel it right into the fluid bath. someone posted an article about how a wet peristome is much more effective than a dry one. i've witnessed this many times. one minute, ants will be swarming the mouth of a pitcher. a spritz of water and all the ants zip off the mouth and into the pitcher. i would think wet peristomes are the norm in the environments where these plants evolved. my question: is this slippery stuff nectar? and is it related to the wetting agent? and speaking of cephalotus. this plant seems to 'water' its own peristome. i have one that's brimming with water, even though i don't mist it. Gary Kong "David Ahrens" wrote: >Christine asked about the narcotic substances in Sarracenia and Nepenthes, >which drug the insect visiters to these plants. >The substance in Sarracenia is coniine. >I wasn't too sure that Nepenthes secrete a paralysing substance. I have >looked this up in 'The Carnivorous Plants' by Juniper Robins and Joel. On >page 242, they discuss the paralysing and wetting agents that might be >secreted by carnivorous plants. They say that only Sarracenia contains a >paralysing agent in it's trap, it is alone in the CP world for having an >agent of this sort. >Page 62 also says that it is suggested that Nepenthes pitcher fluid contains >a wetting agent. It goes on to say that there is little evidence for this. I >am a little bit confused because page 62 says that the liquid in the base of >the pitcher has a 'soapiness' about it and says that this may be the result >of polysaccharides discharged into the pitcher fluid. So there does seem to >be evidence of a wetting agent in the traps, the book seems to contradict >itself. >Hope this helps. >Regards >David Ahrens. >London. > > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: leosong at fullerton.edu (Leo Song) Date: Wed Jan 5 23:25:41 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cephalotus Hi Group: I grow Cephalotus outside here in S. California. Since the climate is somewhat similar to native area, the plant does well and has flowered almost every year, generally during the late spring-early summer. A cold dormant period is probably the key. The plant is self-fertile (anthers shedding pollen first, stigmas receptive later- like Dionaea). I have grown volunteer seedlings, so I know the seeds are good. Leo -- Leo C. Song, Jr. Curator/Manager Biology Greenhouse Complex, Retired POB 6850 Fullerton CA 92834-6850 Vox & Fax: 714/278-2766 email: leosong@fullerton.edu Tao of Leo Song: "Knowledge is not knowledge unless it is shared." ################### From: utricularia4242 at hotmail.com (Travis Wyman) Date: Thu Jan 6 09:05:13 2005 Subject: [CP] Recovering plants Hey everyone, Shortly before the holidays I had a rather unfortunate occurance. On the night that the temp dropped to 17 degrees F there was a power failure that shut off my space heater. When the power came back on the heater did not reset and so all the plants in my sunroom had the pleasure of being frozen to some extent or other. 2 days after this happened I had to go out to Colorado and I have only recently returned. This morning I was able to take a close look at my collection and, much as i expected, I have lost a good number of plants. I am looking for anyone who might have spares of the following plants: -P. laueana CP2 x CP3 -P. laueana SP3 -P. moranensis 'D' -P. oblongiloba -P. macrophylla -P. emarginata -P. rectifolia -P. agnata 'Harold' -P. 'Mola' -P. gigantea -P. gigantea "purple flower" -P. gigantea "alba" x moctezumae (this was Stan Lampard's cross, also known as 'Apasionada') -P. 'Sethos' x cyclosecta -P. 'Tina' -P. 'Gina' -P. 'Weser' (This was not the bogus plant of mass TC distribution. It was supposedly the real deal though I had not yet gotten it to flower to confirm this.) -D. slackii -D. 'Big Easy' I do not currently have much to trade but I wil do my best to work something out if I can. If you can help please drop me a line off list Thank Travis Travis H. Wyman Microbiology & Molecular Genetics Emory University twyman@emory.edu ################### From: nickplummer at nc.rr.com (nickplummer@nc.rr.com) Date: Thu Jan 6 13:03:12 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Narcotic effects of CP (now insect aquaplaning) Gary Kong wrote: > someone posted an article about how a wet peristome is much more > effective than a dry one. i've witnessed this many times. The following paper seems relevant: Bohn HF, Federle W. (2004) Insect aquaplaning: Nepenthes pitcher plants capture prey with the peristome, a fully wettable water-lubricated anisotropic surface. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 101(39):14138-43 Abstract: Pitcher plants of the genus Nepenthes have highly specialized leaves adapted to attract, capture, retain, and digest arthropod prey. Several mechanisms have been proposed for the capture of insects, ranging from slippery epicuticular wax crystals to downward-pointing lunate cells and alkaloid secretions that anesthetize insects. Here we report that perhaps the most important capture mechanism has thus far remained overlooked. It is based on special surface properties of the pitcher rim (peristome) and insect "aquaplaning." The peristome is characterized by a regular microstructure with radial ridges of smooth overlapping epidermal cells, which form a series of steps toward the pitcher inside. This surface is completely wettable by nectar secreted at the inner margin of the peristome and by rain water, so that homogenous liquid films cover the surface under humid weather conditions. Only when wet, the peristome surface is slippery for insects, so that most ant visitors become trapped. By measuring friction forces of weaver ants (Oecophylla smaragdina) on the peristome surface of Nepenthes bicalcarata, we demonstrate that the two factors preventing insect attachment to the peristome, i.e., water lubrication and anisotropic surface topography, are effective against different attachment structures of the insect tarsus. Peristome water films disrupt attachment only for the soft adhesive pads but not for the claws, whereas surface topography leads to anisotropic friction only for the claws but not for the adhesive pads. Experiments on Nepenthes alata show that the trapping mechanism of the peristome is also essential in Nepenthes species with waxy inner pitcher walls. ################### From: Killerplants at aol.com (Killerplants@aol.com) Date: Thu Jan 6 14:24:21 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: narcotics Didn't Peter D'Amato have a small article(or maybe it was a post) where he watched a ton of ants sample some Nepenthes nectar and fall off the plant onto his bench either stupified or dead? Cheers, ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Thu Jan 6 19:57:47 2005 Subject: [CP] Recovering plants Dear Travis, Don't throw out your _Drosera_ pots just yet! While the leaves have died, the roots could be just fine. _D. regia_ can come back from roots eight inches below the soil surface :) _D. slackii_ is no slacker when it comes to growing back from roots either. Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of Travis Wyman Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 12:05 PM When the power came back on the heater did not reset and so all the plants in my sunroom had the pleasure of being frozen to some extent or other. 2 days after this happened I had to go out to Colorado and I have only recently returned. This morning I was able to take a close look at my collection and, much as i expected, I have lost a good number of plants. -D. slackii -D. 'Big Easy' Travis H. Wyman Microbiology & Molecular Genetics Emory University ################### From: stephenwd at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Davis) Date: Thu Jan 6 22:43:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Narcotic effects of CP (now insect aquaplaning) I have a good sized N. truncate on my window sill. Every so often we get an infestation of ants which love to crawl all over it. I've found that if I use my mister on the pitcher the ants will fall in so fast that I don't even see them slide in. They appear to just disappear. One second they are happily walking along the peristome, the next, they are gone. What is incredible to me is that this is just a light misting and the effect is instantaneous. Not very scientific, but an easy thing to replicate. Stephen Davis stephenwd@sbcglobal.net www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com -----Original Message----- Of nickplummer@nc.rr.com Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 1:03 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Gary Kong wrote: > someone posted an article about how a wet peristome is much more > effective than a dry one. i've witnessed this many times. The following paper seems relevant: Bohn HF, Federle W. (2004) Insect aquaplaning: Nepenthes pitcher plants capture prey with the peristome, a fully wettable water-lubricated anisotropic surface. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 101(39):14138-43 Abstract: Pitcher plants of the genus Nepenthes have highly specialized leaves adapted to attract, capture, retain, and digest arthropod prey. Several mechanisms have been proposed for the capture of insects, ranging from slippery epicuticular wax crystals to downward-pointing lunate cells and alkaloid secretions that anesthetize insects. Here we report that perhaps the most important capture mechanism has thus far remained overlooked. It is based on special surface properties of the pitcher rim (peristome) and insect "aquaplaning." The peristome is characterized by a regular microstructure with radial ridges of smooth overlapping epidermal cells, which form a series of steps toward the pitcher inside. This surface is completely wettable by nectar secreted at the inner margin of the peristome and by rain water, so that homogenous liquid films cover the surface under humid weather conditions. Only when wet, the peristome surface is slippery for insects, so that most ant visitors become trapped. By measuring friction forces of weaver ants (Oecophylla smaragdina) on the peristome surface of Nepenthes bicalcarata, we demonstrate that the two factors preventing insect attachment to the peristome, i.e., water lubrication and anisotropic surface topography, are effective against different attachment structures of the insect tarsus. Peristome water films disrupt attachment only for the soft adhesive pads but not for the claws, whereas surface topography leads to anisotropic friction only for the claws but not for the adhesive pads. Experiments on Nepenthes alata show that the trapping mechanism of the peristome is also essential in Nepenthes species with waxy inner pitcher walls. _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Fri Jan 7 08:25:29 2005 Subject: [CP] Remember the hand puppets? Hey Folks, A funny thing happened over the holidays. One of my family members decided that I clearly needed to own a copy of a "Ripley's Believe it or Not" book. For those of you unfamiliar with this American institution, Ripley's is a museum of the odd; it got its start by publishing an illustrated article in the newspapers, etc., etc., with facts like, "Did you know that botanist Robert Gibson can stick his tongue into his ear?" and so on. (I'm not sure about that statement regarding Robert, by the way.) Anyway, I was passing the time reading about people who had tattooed themselves to look like lizards, and strange meteorological phenomena like maggots raining from the sky, when I discovered a surprising entry: A young woman in North Carolina apparently became interested in taxidermy, and would practice on roadkill brought to her by her father; now she has her own business in taxidermy. YES! Amy Ritchie! The girl who once made Venus Flytrap hand puppets and sold them on her web site! I am proud to still have my set of flytrap hand and finger puppets made by Ms Ritchie! Fabulous! Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Fri Jan 7 09:23:10 2005 Subject: [CP] Remember the hand puppets? Fantastic! Barry, thanks for this wonderful news. I remember that in 1999 as a 12-year-old she had spunk. She must be about 17 now. I recall that her budding enterprise also started the hand-puppet wars, where some of our scrooge listserve participants wanted to ban her for the audacious crime of trying to peddle her puppets to us. For a sample, see http://www.flytrap.demon.co.uk/digests/2005.txt -Bob- Barry Rice wrote: > Hey Folks, > > A funny thing happened over the holidays. One of my family members decided > that I clearly needed to own a copy of a "Ripley's Believe it or Not" book. > For those of you unfamiliar with this American institution, Ripley's is a > museum of the odd; it got its start by publishing an illustrated article in > the newspapers, etc., etc., with facts like, "Did you know that botanist > Robert Gibson can stick his tongue into his ear?" and so on. (I'm not sure > about that statement regarding Robert, by the way.) > > Anyway, I was passing the time reading about people who had tattooed > themselves to look like lizards, and strange meteorological phenomena like > maggots raining from the sky, when I discovered a surprising entry: A young > woman in North Carolina apparently became interested in taxidermy, and would > practice on roadkill brought to her by her father; now she has her own > business in taxidermy. YES! Amy Ritchie! The girl who once made Venus > Flytrap hand puppets and sold them on her web site! I am proud to still have > my set of flytrap hand and finger puppets made by Ms Ritchie! > > Fabulous! > > Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. > Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor > The International Carnivorous Plant Society > http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Fri Jan 7 12:55:28 2005 Subject: [CP] handpuppets/ Clarke Well two totally unrelated issues, Can these hand-puppets still be bought? Does anyone know is Charles Clarke related to Arthur C. Clarke. An article in our local newspaper interviewed Arthur who lives/d in the former Celyon (What is it called now?). Any way I heard Charles Clarke lives/d in the same are and both came from near the same area of England (if I am hearing correct facts). Tre ################### From: greyeagleorchis at earthlink.net (Andy Lanier) Date: Fri Jan 7 12:55:29 2005 Subject: [CP] Remember the hand puppets? I wasn't a member of the list when the Hand Puppets discussion was going on but I typed in Amy Ritchie Taxidermy and did a Google Search and found a large web site for her. She sounds like quite a girl. Andy Lanier Fantastic! Barry, thanks for this wonderful news. I remember that in 1999 as a 12-year-old she had spunk. She must be about 17 now. I recall that her budding enterprise also started the hand-puppet wars, where some of our scrooge listserve participants wanted to ban her for the audacious crime of trying to peddle her puppets to us. For a sample, see http://www.flytrap.demon.co.uk/digests/2005.txt -Bob- Barry Rice wrote: > Hey Folks, > > A funny thing happened over the holidays. One of my family members > decided that I clearly needed to own a copy of a "Ripley's Believe > it or Not" book. For those of you unfamiliar with this American > institution, Ripley's is a museum of the odd; it got its start by > publishing an illustrated article in the newspapers, etc., etc., > with facts like, "Did you know that botanist Robert Gibson can stick > his tongue into his ear?" and so on. (I'm not sure about that > statement regarding Robert, by the way.) > > Anyway, I was passing the time reading about people who had tattooed > themselves to look like lizards, and strange meteorological > phenomena like maggots raining from the sky, when I discovered a > surprising entry: A young woman in North Carolina apparently became > interested in taxidermy, and would practice on roadkill brought to > her by her father; now she has her own business in taxidermy. YES! > Amy Ritchie! The girl who once made Venus Flytrap hand puppets and > sold them on her web site! I am proud to still have my set of > flytrap hand and finger puppets made by Ms Ritchie! > > Fabulous! > > Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor The > International Carnivorous Plant Society > http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Fri Jan 7 14:08:55 2005 Subject: [CP] handpuppets/ Clarke In a message dated 1/7/2005 12:56:05 PM Pacific Standard Time, treaqum1@yahoo.com writes: Well two totally unrelated issues, Can these hand-puppets still be bought? Does anyone know is Charles Clarke related to Arthur C. Clarke. An article in our local newspaper interviewed Arthur who lives/d in the former Celyon (What is it called now?). Any way I heard Charles Clarke lives/d in the same are and both came from near the same area of England (if I am hearing correct facts). Tre Or what is commonly referred to now, and quite frequently in the news these days, Sri Lanka. Arthur still lives there, and despite being arguably Sri Lanka's most famous resident, didn't get interviewed by any major media outlet after the tsunami that I saw. I did find an interview in the Malaysian Times. No idea if he's related to Charles or not. TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Fri Jan 7 14:36:55 2005 Subject: [CP] Remember the hand puppets? > >I wasn't a member of the list when the Hand Puppets discussion was going on >but I typed in Amy Ritchie Taxidermy and did a Google Search and found a >large web site for her. She sounds like quite a girl. >Andy Lanier > Interesting website, definitely not for those who are opposed to hunting/skinning animals and photos/descriptions of it. I remember Amy and the puppet wars well. After viewing her taxidermy site, I'm sure the same people would not make any comments for fear of becoming an 'addition' to her collection ;-)! Hey, maybe she can deal with all the pesky squirrels from the annual squirrel wars! Chris ################### From: david.ahrens at btopenworld.com (DAVID AHRENS) Date: Fri Jan 7 14:58:59 2005 Subject: [CP] Narcotic effects of CP (now insect aquaplaning) ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Fri Jan 7 15:32:48 2005 Subject: [CP] Now just need these 4 native bladderworts I ordered some bladderworts that I needed from Meadowview,and still waiting for seeds of others I ordered for my collection. Now all I need are these 4 US native species(either states),then I am done. The first 2 are the main ones I really need,the last 2 are just something I would like to have. Utricularia radiata Utricularia resupinata Utricularia minor Utricularia olivacea Harry ################### From: CALIFCARN at aol.com (CALIFCARN@aol.com) Date: Fri Jan 7 15:35:08 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Drugged Nectar ################### From: CMcdon0923 at aol.com (CMcdon0923@aol.com) Date: Fri Jan 7 15:50:56 2005 Subject: [CP] Remember the hand puppets? Amy has a website displaying some of her work...... www.amystaxidermy.com ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Sat Jan 8 15:42:33 2005 Subject: [CP] A message to Floridians Appreciate what you have. I'm not sure you quite realize how amazing your state is. I am a los angelean trying to relocate. The longer i visit your wonderful state the longer i lust after it and want to relocate here. I'm currently in fort lauderdale but going up to orlando and tampa next week applying for tech jobs the whole way. It is presently in the low 50s and pouring in los angeles but thats beside the point. My last 2 bosses at my last 2 jobs in california commuted 2 1/2 hours ONE WAY. For those in california that means riverside to brentwood and lake castaic to gardena. I was on the 95 going back to the hostel i'm staying at and the sun was setting and it wasnt gridlock. if this were the 405 north at sunset on a saturday the traffic coming home would be solid bumper to bumper. for those in california: i know because i would always come back on a saturday afternoon from vasquez rocks off the 14 or magic mountain off the 5 or something and as soon as you get near wilshire blvd and the 10 freeway it jams up solid. watch this website at 5pm PST on a weekday http://www.sigalert.com out by big cypress swamp today a woman was telling me who worked at the conservatory how homes in naples are so ridiculously expensive at the rate of $280k ----- WHAT?!??!?! do they even realize that there are homes selling for dramatically more than that in ghettos in california with bullets whizzing by? i just cant believe it Only the ultra rich can afford california or if you were there before the market exploded. Did you know many MANY young people such as my girlfriend and I and many of our friends are moving out of california because its completely unaffordable? I've been bragging to my parents and friends all week how i saw 1.71 gas here at a Marathon. Its still in the 1.90s out there. And finally, YOU CAN ACTUALLY GROW CARNIVOROUS PLANTS OUTSIDE NOT IN SOME CRAPPY GLASS TANK! PLEASE. PLEASE appreciate what you have. You don't know how bad it can be. ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Sat Jan 8 17:14:14 2005 Subject: [CP] A message to Floridians You know, you really should have done this as a top ten list. Of course, you missed one big negative factor for Florida. They have to put up with Jeb Bush as Governor! HAHAHAHA! ...what? Our Governor is Arnold Schwarzenegger? Guess it's a toss up on that one, then. TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sun Jan 9 10:23:09 2005 Subject: [CP] wanted: Ping/Utric seed If you have any excess random Ping or Utric seed I would like it for SASE or trade. I am working on how to raise my germination/survival rate above 20%. Thanks, Tre ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Sun Jan 9 11:30:15 2005 Subject: [CP] My Growlist It been much easier to just post link to CP site where my list is listed. I just started out past spring,and my cp collection is still growing. But I only grow mainly what be native in my state,only very little are not native here. But I like them any way. I ordered some cp seeds,so as soon as I can get them to germinate in spring,I will update my list. I just don't want to add them if I can't get them to germinate. My Growlist http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6983 Wolf ################### From: slawarre at meijergardens.org (Steve LaWarre) Date: Sun Jan 9 13:39:38 2005 Subject: [CP] New Event listed on the ICPS event board A new event has been added to the ICPS News & Events page, titled: Acid-wetland ecology day June 11, 2005 at Hummer's place in Caroline Co. VA. USA You can check it out at: http://www.carnivorousplants.org/news/newsmain.php Thanks, Steve LaWarre ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sun Jan 9 14:00:22 2005 Subject: [CP] Florida Well true we do have perfect weather but people are such idiots around here. They practically think Florida is its own country, which needless to say leads to numerous court battles on civil rights. Oh, Yes the Civil War is still going on here, probibly because Florida never surrendered. The only bad thing is you cannot grow Lowland Neps, Mexican Pings, Tropical Drosera, Temperate Drosera, Temperate Pings, or Darlingtonia outside. Hence the reason I have very few of these plants. Although we have had slightly colder then normal winter weather you know mid 50s to mid 80s. I pity everyone where it is frozen who cannot run outside and see their cps everyday. Tre ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Sun Jan 9 14:34:36 2005 Subject: [CP] Florida I only grow US natives,mainly of the eastcoast. So growing them outside here in Maryland is no problem. The pitcher plants,flytraps,and sundews are in pots with mix of long-fiber S. moss and perlite. When temps get below freezing,I bring them in,depending on species? Like S. flava and purpurea ssp. venosa. My Dwarf sundews are in the house by a window. My bladderworts are also in the house by the window. The aquatic ones are in Glad-Lock tuffawear with little long-fiber S.moss and distilled water. I only have the one mud type that I bought from you,and at this time its just in a old yogar cup w/lid in wet long-fiber moss. Wolf ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Sun Jan 9 14:39:16 2005 Subject: [CP] CP Group At Care2 Carnivorous Plants http://www.care2.com/c2c/group/carnivorous_plants Wolf ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sun Jan 9 15:36:21 2005 Subject: [CP] Wanted Mexican Pings I will trade for the following pings: P. colimensis P. crassifolia P. cyclosecta P. debbertiana P. ehlersiae P. emarginata P. esseriana P. esseriana {Giant} P. gypsicola P. hemiepiphytica P. immaculata P. jaumavensis P. kondoi P. laueana P. macrophylla P. moctezumae P. orchidioides P. potosiensis P. rotundiflora P. zecheri P. spec. ANPA C (Tonala, Puebla, Mexico; very unique flower) P. spec. Köhres P. spec. "I" Hautil P. spec. Tamaulipas (= P. pilosa) My trade items avalible at [URL=http://www.geocities.com/Treaqum1/Trade.html]www.geocites.com/Treaqum1/Trade.html[/URL]I also have D. filformis ssp. tracyi 'Buck Pond' ################### From: sclancy at uci.edu (sclancy) Date: Sun Jan 9 15:36:48 2005 Subject: [CP] handpuppets I also bought some of the handpuppets from Amy and even sent her some plants. I lost track of her, and thankfully missed the "handpuppet wars." She has grown into a beautiful young woman and has moved into other things. I think that her experience on this group soured her on CP for life. She has become well-known and has appeared on both Radio and TV for her taxidemy work. Good for you Amy! --steve -- Steve Clancy, MLS AHIP Acting Medical Education Coordinator, Library Proxy Coordinator Science Library, Univ. of Calif., Irvine CA. U.S.A. 949-824-7309 * sclancy AT uci.edu * sun3.lib.uci.edu/~sclancy --------------------------------------------------------------- "I see dead spammers." >Message: 1 >Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 12:55:12 -0800 (PST) >From: Tre Bond >Subject: [CP] handpuppets/ Clarke >To: Cp@omnisterra.com >Message-ID: <20050107205512.77441.qmail@web53301.mail.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >Well two totally unrelated issues, >Can these hand-puppets still be bought? >Does anyone know is Charles Clarke related to Arthur C. Clarke. An article in our local newspaper interviewed Arthur who lives/d in the former Celyon (What is it called now?). Any way I heard Charles Clarke lives/d in the same are and both came from near the same area of England (if I am hearing correct facts). >Tre > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com > >------------------------------ > >Message: 2 >Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 15:54:34 -0500 >From: "Andy Lanier" >Subject: Re: [CP] Remember the hand puppets? >To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" >Message-ID: <005f01c4f4fb$18641f80$a018a5d1@andy> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >I wasn't a member of the list when the Hand Puppets discussion was going on but I typed in Amy Ritchie Taxidermy and did a Google Search and found a large web site for her. She sounds like quite a girl. >Andy Lanier > > > Fantastic! Barry, thanks for this wonderful news. > > I remember that in 1999 as a 12-year-old she had spunk. She must be > about 17 now. I recall that her budding enterprise also started the > hand-puppet wars, where some of our scrooge listserve participants > wanted to ban her for the audacious crime of trying to peddle her > puppets to us. For a sample, see > http://www.flytrap.demon.co.uk/digests/2005.txt > > -Bob- > > > > ################### From: pbunch at cox.net (Phil Bunch) Date: Mon Jan 10 07:59:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Intro and Colombian CP's Hi all: I'm a complete novice with regard to CP's but have spent my career in the biological arm of environmental regulation. I currently work for a utility company and manage our T&E species program. I have an interest in the tropical highlands of Colombia and would like to learn about CP's that occur in those areas, particularly in the Department of Antioquia. Looking forward to participating in this list. Phil Bunch -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 1/6/2005 ################### From: pbunch at cox.net (Phil Bunch) Date: Mon Jan 10 09:59:15 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Colombia & CP / Ivo Koudela's new address Ivo: Do you know if any of the plants you mentioned in your post occur in Antioquia? Any above 2000 m? Phil Bunch -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.10 - Release Date: 1/10/2005 ################### From: willows at rose.net (James A Rollins) Date: Mon Jan 10 12:54:58 2005 Subject: [CP] To Want to be in FL not CA ################### From: utricularia4242 at hotmail.com (Travis Wyman) Date: Mon Jan 10 12:58:14 2005 Subject: [CP] To Want to be in FL not CA Hey James, I had one going outside this past spring/summer and it was doing alright till the birds decided that digging up the pot would be a fun thing to do. Travis >From: "James A Rollins" > >(Has any one tried Cephalotus outside in the SE US?) ################### From: ullsperg at hotmail.com (Chris Ullsperger) Date: Mon Jan 10 15:09:28 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Mexian pings wanted >From that want list, I noticed the following: P. spec. ANPA C (Tonala, Puebla, Mexico; very unique flower) I purchased this plant from Best Carnivorous Plants last summer and was very pleased to see flowers already this winter. They are truly beautiful -- a bright lavender/pink with dark purple markings -- unlike any of the flowers on my other pings and very worthwhile (I have many other fine Best CP pings to compare -- a fine and recommended purveyor, especially when the Euro/dollar ratio is not so steep ...). cu ################### From: dinesh at ndbib.lanka.net (Dinesh Fernando) Date: Tue Jan 11 01:43:38 2005 Subject: [CP] handpuppets / Clarke Dr. Clarke still lives in Sri Lanka (formerly Ceylon). > >Message: 1 > >Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 12:55:12 -0800 (PST) > >From: Tre Bond > >Subject: [CP] handpuppets/ Clarke > >To: Cp@omnisterra.com > >Message-ID: <20050107205512.77441.qmail@web53301.mail.yahoo.com> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > >Does anyone know is Charles Clarke related to Arthur C. Clarke. An article in our local newspaper interviewed Arthur who lives/d in the former Celyon (What is it called now?). Any way I heard Charles Clarke lives/d in the same are and both came from near the same area of England (if I am hearing correct facts). > >Tre ################### From: sardonus at yahoo.com (Hamish McKellar) Date: Tue Jan 11 02:33:40 2005 Subject: [CP] handpuppets / Clarke Dinesh - I think you're referring to Arthur C. Clarke, who as far as I know doesn't have a doctorate, honorary or otherwise (although he does have a knighthood, so you can refer to him as Sir Arthur C. Clarke). He does indeed live in Sri Lanka. ... Dr Charles Clarke, noted biologist and Nepenthes expert, lives in Australia... Hamish --- Dinesh Fernando wrote: > Dr. Clarke still lives in Sri Lanka (formerly > Ceylon). > > > > >Message: 1 > > >Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 12:55:12 -0800 (PST) > > >From: Tre Bond > > >Subject: [CP] handpuppets/ Clarke > > >To: Cp@omnisterra.com > > >Message-ID: > <20050107205512.77441.qmail@web53301.mail.yahoo.com> > > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > > > >Does anyone know is Charles Clarke related to > Arthur C. Clarke. An > article in our local newspaper interviewed Arthur > who lives/d in the former > Celyon (What is it called now?). Any way I heard > Charles Clarke lives/d in > the same are and both came from near the same area > of England (if I am > hearing correct facts). > > >Tre > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ___________________________________________________________ ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Tue Jan 11 14:17:39 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Florida Well I have burned my bog, before I moved it. Make sure you line the edge with tinfoil, then the rubber or plastic will not melt. The good thing is that ping and Drosera seed that falls in your bog (native speices) will geminate the next winter. The really bad thing about Florida is the limited Trade time. You can first-class or priority mail (In NE florida) from Oct. 1st to Mid April. Everyone else (where it snows) can usually only agree between Mid March to Nov. 1st. Obviously I have traded with a bunch of people who do not, but I think the majority do. ################### From: Markus.Welge at teleos.de (Welge, Markus) Date: Wed Jan 12 00:54:03 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Mexian pings wanted I also grow P. spec. ANPA C (Tonala, Puebla, Mexico). It's indeed a very nice species. There are also two other forms (ANPA B and ANPA D) which are quite different and as far as I know there is also a white flowered form... Markus, Germany ______________________________________________ Karnivoren in Kultur... http://home.sdirekt-net.de/mwelge5/ To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From that want list, I noticed the following: P. spec. ANPA C (Tonala, Puebla, Mexico; very unique flower) I purchased this plant from Best Carnivorous Plants last summer and was very pleased to see flowers already this winter. They are truly beautiful -- a bright lavender/pink with dark purple markings -- unlike any of the flowers on my other pings and very worthwhile (I have many other fine Best CP pings to compare -- a fine and recommended purveyor, especially when the Euro/dollar ratio is not so steep ...). cu ################### From: CDunn316 at aol.com (CDunn316@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 12 15:00:45 2005 Subject: [CP] Bog Burning ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Wed Jan 12 15:14:36 2005 Subject: [CP] Bog Burning It probably depends on what you have growing in it. If you have species that are fire-adapted, and if you need to control overtopping by "weeds", it may be desirable. If, however, your plants have evolved in a natural habitat without fire, then burning may simply kill those and favor the fire-adapted species. -Bob- CDunn316@aol.com wrote: > Hi All- I seem to have missed this thread, so forgive me if I'm re-hashing > old business. > Is it generally agreed that burnig will benefit a small, bog garden? If so > (apparently so) what, and when, is the best way to go about it? > Regards, > Charlie ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Wed Jan 12 15:26:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Barry's leaf pullings I have to dissagree with Barry's idea not being at least semi-unique. I have reserched it and have not found in any of my cp books that part fo the rhizome is not needed. They all seem to say that a small piece of rhizome must be attached or the cutting will fail. Maybe the authors meant the whitish leaf base but the two or three sentences are too consice to tell. ################### From: JDPDX at aol.com (JDPDX@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 12 15:40:56 2005 Subject: [CP] D. Darnowski Does anyone know if Doug Darnowski is still on the listserve? I believe he lives in Florence, OR. Jeff Dallas Portland, OR ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Wed Jan 12 16:44:34 2005 Subject: [CP] D. Darnowski I believe he is (was) at School of Natural Sciences, Indiana University Southeast. http://www.ius.edu/NaturalSciences/Faculty.cfm JDPDX@aol.com wrote: > Does anyone know if Doug Darnowski is still on the listserve? I believe he > lives in Florence, OR. > > Jeff Dallas > Portland, OR ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Wed Jan 12 21:02:16 2005 Subject: [CP] Wanted: US/Canada native Utricularia purpurea Wanted: Bladderworts(location plants native to any states) Purple Bladderwort Utricularia purpurea Wolf ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Thu Jan 13 08:28:24 2005 Subject: [CP] Hi folks, I'm sorry for the 2nd post. This will be my last. I'm wrapping up my latest seed offer so if you missed it the first time, please email me right away. There's definitely enough D.meristocaulis seed to meet demand so don't be shy if you're interested. Others are in smaller quantities, but don't let this discourage you. Multiple packet requests are ok as long as I have enough. Seed from the same batch has just started germinating for me. :) I want to get rid of my extras ASAP and be done with this seed offer so I can get my life back again! See below for details. Hi friends, I have some REALLY exciting news. D.meristocaulis! hirticalyx, roraimae, Genlisea = New South American Seed Available! After many years, Drosera meristocaulis, probably the most interesting and desirable Drosera ever, has been rediscovered and I've got seed available along with other new stuff - please see below. THIS OFFER IS OPEN TO CP GROWERS IN ANY COUNTRY. I'm extremely happy to announce that I have a small quantity of seed of some more plants never before seen in cultivation. I'm in the US but this offer is open to CPers is ANY country, as long as seed imports don't require any paperwork. Seed includes the following species, some from multiple locations - it's amazing how plants of the same species found on different mountains can be so different! For example, check out the pics of D.roraimae. All of this stuff is obviously extremely rare and the expedition to collect them cost an unbelievably large amount of money. The prices will be relatively high due to these costs, but I certainly feel they're fair. ----DROSERA MERISTOCAULIS---- This is probably the most interesting and beautiful Drosera known to science) http://sundewgrower.com/neblina/D.meristocaulis%20closeup%20Neblina%2011.JPG http://sundewgrower.com/neblina/D.meristocaulis%20flower%20Neblina%2010.JPG ----DROSERA HIRTICALYX---- http://sundewgrower.com/neblina/D.hirticalyx%20Marahuaka%2003.jpg http://sundewgrower.com/neblina/D.hirticalyx%20Marahuaka%2016.jpg (It's likely only the Neblina form will be available) ----DROSERA RORAIMAE---- http://sundewgrower.com/neblina/D.roraimae%20Avispa.JPG http://sundewgrower.com/neblina/D.roraimae%20Jaua%202.JPG http://sundewgrower.com/neblina/D.roraimae%20Marahuaka.JPG http://sundewgrower.com/neblina/D.roraimae%20Neblina%201.JPG ----GENLISEA---- =Genlisea repens These photos were taken by CP explorer and my personal hero, Fernando Rivadavia and are being used with his permission. Please don't link to them without our permission or copy them without his permission. Some of this seed is now available for a very limited time so please contact me immediately if you're interested. I'll accept set cash donations (email for details) in exchange. A large percentage of donations will go right back to an excellent cause - helping to fund the acquisition of more new material like this for us all to grow. Heck, donations may have to help pay outstanding bills from this expedition! Be sure to check your spam folders in case my next announcement gets filtered out of your inbox! Spread the word - these gorgeous and rare plants deserve to be in every collection! Happy growing, Matt ################### From: dglidden at illusionary.com (Derek Glidden) Date: Thu Jan 13 08:42:46 2005 Subject: [CP] bog garden fun in Florida I decided I wanted to redo the bog garden this winter as everything went dormant; move some plants out into other containers, refresh the soil and check the liner, etc. Well, lucky for me, as the bog dried out and the plants went dormant, the fire ants moved in. I spent a REALLY lovely six hours or so digging all the plants out by hand* while trying to simultaneously slap the ants off of my hands and ankles. I'm now itching like mad and my hands and feet look like a bad case of chicken pox. The bog is only about 8x3' and somehow managed to hold two separate colonies on either end. The biggest colony up front managed to take over almost 1/4 of the bog, while the smaller colony in the back had only taken over about 1^3' worth of space, but lemme tell ya, both sets got really torqued when the shovel went in. On the plus side, I got to see first hand what it was like to slaughter about a zillion fire ants as opposed to one at a time with a magnifying glass or in slightly larger quantities with M-80s. So yeah, Florida's just dandy.... * It's a lot more difficult than it sounds when everything's gone dormant, the leaves have mostly fallen off and the rhizomes/tubers/etc are mostly hidden under the sphagnum that has happily taken over the surface of the bog. It's a bit like finding needles in a haystack, said haystack being filled with fire ants... ################### From: CTSsangha at aol.com (CTSsangha@aol.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 09:42:00 2005 Subject: [CP] New South American Seed Available! D.meristocaulis! how much is the seed Matt?? ################### From: AppleCakeTeaRoom at aol.com (AppleCakeTeaRoom@aol.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 21:45:46 2005 Subject: [CP] It figures at 3am.... It figures that at 3 am the really cool stuff is actually on tv, and at that the local station to boot! Being a night owl, I actually went to bed last night at 3am. I got a tv for my room for Christmas so I was flipping channels, hoping to find a good program to snooze away to. What should I stumble on the local station for ComCast at 3am? A local woman from Tarrant County, Texas discussing how to set up a carnivorous plant bog! Add to that she actually knew what she was talking about! She discussed VFTs, and Sarracenias (lol, didn't call them pitcher plants, she actually knew what they were), and proceeded to show how to set up a mobile CP display in a Radio Flyer red wagon. Her CP displays are often permanently set in Wagons because she goes to local schools to talk about the different CPs. Smart idea! She apparently has been growing CPs in ground bogs in Texas for at least 5 years. Thought I'd share my midnight delight...err actually 3am delight! ;-) ################### From: dhcl604 at yahoo.com (David Heule) Date: Fri Jan 14 03:13:40 2005 Subject: [CP] In Search of Sarracenia Hello, Does anyone know where I can purchase Sarracenia purpurea ssp. venosa var. burkii forma luteola? I had bought it from the Atlanta Botanical Gardens in 1999 but lost it during a move. There is a photo of it in Donald E. Schnell's Carnivorous Plants of the United States and Canada on page 139. Thanks. David H. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Fri Jan 14 09:21:12 2005 Subject: [CP] Fluorescent bulbs? Hi everyone, I'm about to change all my 40 watt fluorescent bulbs. I've been using 2 cool white, 1 warm and 1 plant and aquarium bulb per shelf for years but may change this time so I wanted some recommendations from people with great results growing Drosera under lights. Anyone? Also, does anyone switch bulbs to encourage flowering? Thanks, Matt -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ################### From: christoph_belanger2001 at yahoo.com (Christoph Belanger) Date: Fri Jan 14 12:57:35 2005 Subject: [CP] Flourescent Lights - need heliamphora key I use mostly daylight (I think 5000K) 3 flourescent bulbs in conjunction with one grow light. My logic for this is that the Venezuelan and other Drosera grow in higher altitudes with higher lighting intensities. I don't know if this logic makes any sense, but I just switched all my bulbs in August and I have flower stalks on all of my mature Heliamphoras (3 very different-looking clones of heterodoxa and one nutans). At ther very least I will be able to identify my Heliamphora... Can anyone email to me (privately please so as not to annoy everyone) Fernando's Heliamphora key me? It seems my Heliamphora heard my wishes and decided to flower... Christoph __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ################### From: Writerguy67 at aol.com (Writerguy67@aol.com) Date: Fri Jan 14 13:18:17 2005 Subject: [CP] Flourescent Lights - need heliamphora key Christoph, Do you vary photoperiod on your Heliamphora? I use standard cool white 40 watt, 48" T12 cool white tubes on my Heliamphora. Many of my mature species and hybrid Heliamphora clones are likewise sending up scapes (or would be if I left them alone). Not a change in lighting, only in photoperiod (16 hours high down to 12 hours now) and ambient temperature. Jay Lechtman Northern Virginia, USA ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Fri Jan 14 16:45:18 2005 Subject: [CP] It figures at 3am.... >She discussed VFTs, and Sarracenias (lol, didn't call them pitcher plants, >she actually knew what they were), and proceeded to show how to set up a >mobile > CP display in a Radio Flyer red wagon. Her CP displays are often >permanently set in Wagons because she goes to local schools to talk about >the >different CPs. Smart idea! Cool idea. Very convenient for show and tell type displays. I wonder if the wagons start to rust out over time though? Or have they gone the way of plastic (a national tragedy if they have!). Chris ################### From: cplistserv at carnivorousplant.com (Joseph Clemens) Date: Fri Jan 14 17:16:38 2005 Subject: [CP] Fluorescent lights? Hello Matt and List, For about 10 years now I have been exclusively using the least expensive "cool white" 48" T12 fluorescent lamps I am able to locate. Providing 4 - 6 lamps per 2 foot x 4 foot shelf and with a 15 hour/day photoperiod by use of timers has provided me with excellent coloration and plant growth in all plants I have used and recommend this protocol on; Drosera, Pinguicula, Cephalotus, Utricularia, Sarracenia, and Heliamphora. I recently heard of an idea to overdrive fluorescent lights to obtain even more light per lamp -- I am experimenting with the use of this idea now. I went down to our local "Home Depot" store and purchased some 48 inch Shop light fixtures for $7.97 each (this is much cheaper even than purchasing replacement ballasts). They are pre-assembled and I spent most of the day disassembling every other one and them reassembling each pair into one overdriven dual-lamp unit, rewiring each ballast to overdrive a single lamp. I removed the ballast from one, rewired it to power a single lamp vs. dual lamps and inserted it into a light fixture where I had already rewired the on-board ballast to power one single lamp. It is easy to see that the lamps are burning much brighter - I have read reports that this produces 70% more light per lamp. I am curious to see how long the lamps last when overdriven like this. I am much more curious to find out how the plants respond to the increase in light. The fixtures come without lamps. Fortunately I had earlier located a clearance sale on Philips F40T12/Contractors CW/Alto lamps, 30 lamps for $20.00 or about $.67 each. My stockpile of these is quickly diminishing so I am anxiously looking for other sales of similar lamps. ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Sat Jan 15 07:47:15 2005 Subject: [CP] Fernando at BACPS meeting Hey folks. Is anyone going to be capturing Fernando's presentation today on video? If so,email me privately. I'm interested in seeing it! Thanks Matt -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ################### From: wwells1 at concentric.net (Bill Wells) Date: Sat Jan 15 08:53:25 2005 Subject: [CP] Fluorescent bulbs? "Sundew" wrote: > > Hi everyone, > I'm about to change all my 40 watt fluorescent bulbs. I've been using 2 > cool white, 1 warm and 1 plant and aquarium bulb per shelf for years but may > change this time so I wanted some recommendations from people with great > results growing Drosera under lights. > Anyone? Also, does anyone switch bulbs to encourage flowering? > Thanks, > Matt > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 I have been using compact fluorescent bulbs with success both for aquatic plants (including Utricularia) as well as CPs. Compact fluorescent lights produce more light per watt than regular fluorescent lights. A color temperature of 5000K through 6700K works well. I put most of my CPs outside during the summer, but the lights work well in the winter and I do use them in the summer for some small plants that I don't put ourside. I have gotten P. primulaflora and D. capensis flower under compact fluorescents. I haven't tried to get others to flower under artificial light yet, but it should work as they have a good spectrum and a high intensity. I have purchased from http://www.ahsupply.com, but there are other suppliers. Later, Bill Wells ################### From: AppleCakeTeaRoom at aol.com (AppleCakeTeaRoom@aol.com) Date: Sat Jan 15 12:15:59 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: It figures at 3am.... In a message dated 1/15/2005 2:02:51 P.M. Central Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: Cool idea. Very convenient for show and tell type displays. I wonder if the wagons start to rust out over time though? Or have they gone the way of plastic (a national tragedy if they have!). Chris It would also be great setup for plants that are temperature sensitive that would benefit from daylight weather, and would enjoy hanging out inside for the night. I was wondering the same thing, and would be hesitant to use this method for that reason, however looking at the Red Radio flyer wagon we use for my dog's carting, it seems to have quite a good coating of plastic and paint over it, and it hasn't rusted yet after 3 years of use during the winter months. ################### From: mikeferr at nycap.rr.com (Mike) Date: Sat Jan 15 16:04:12 2005 Subject: [CP] Fluorescent lights? Hi, I have been using compact fluorescent lights made by Lights of America for over a year with excellent results for all of my CPs. These lights are so bright that they're painful to stare at. They are marketed as floodlights but if you scrap the plastic lens and add a power cord they make great plant lights. I fasten two of them to a pair of 1 1/2" x 3/4" x 30" boards to make a very serviceable light fixture. Home Depot carries them and they are also selling on Ebay but I find it cheaper to buy the lights and replacement bulbs directly from the manufacturer in Massachusetts. http://www.lightsofamerica.com/floods.htm# Mike F. Here are the lamp specs: Model #'s 9265, 9266 Watts Used 65 Incandescent Wattage Equivalent 500 Size (H x D) 4.25 x 3.5 Color White, Brown Lumens 4550 Efficiency 87% Life 10,000 hrs CRI 82 Color Temp 6,500K Op. Voltage 120V Op. Freq (Hz) 50/60 3-Way NO Dimmable NO Outdoor Use (damp) NO UL YES CSA YES Energy Star YES Replacement Lamp 9166B ################### From: alexnetherton at charter.net (Alex Netherton) Date: Sat Jan 15 18:04:53 2005 Subject: [CP] Blooming Nep Hi folks; I have a N. x Judith Finn that is blooming. It is a male. It bloomed last year, spreading pollen all over the place to the point I cut off the bloom scapes - I don't suspect anyone wants Judith Finn pollen... It always seems to start this around New Year, and it makes pitchers in around August. Is there any evidence for photoperiodicity in Neps? Seems so in mine. Also, are all Judith Finn males? When it blooms it doesn't seem to make upper pitchers; all the former summer pitchers are dried up by then, and none are forthcoming until next summer; go figger. I do drop in a few beads of Osmocote fertilizer about May, but it receives little food otherwise. Potted in pure Peat moss. Alex Netherton http://alexnetherton.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.12 - Release Date: 1/14/2005 ################### From: pramodisha at yahoo.com (Pramod Agrawal) Date: Sat Jan 15 18:13:36 2005 Subject: [CP] I need help with TC for all veroieties of CPs. Dear Members, I am a new member from India. I need with help with protocols for CP tissue culture for all verieties of CPs. Please send me relevant information and links. Best Regards, Pramod. ################### From: pramodisha at yahoo.com (Pramod Agrawal) Date: Sat Jan 15 18:13:47 2005 Subject: [CP] I need help with TC for all verieties of CPs. Dear Members, I am a new member from India. I need with help with protocols for CP tissue culture for all verieties of CPs. Please send me relevant information and links. Best Regards, Pramod. ################### From: kit at carnivorousplants.nyc.ny.us (Kit Halsted) Date: Sat Jan 15 18:18:59 2005 Subject: [CP] Fluorescent lights? I had awful results with those lights. They're great until there's a glitch in the electricity, then they just die. I went through 3, then gave up on trying to use them. The manufacturer was really unhelpful, I never did get an RMA to return them. (No reflection on you, Mike, just saying that my experience wasn't as good as yours.) -Kit At 7:04 PM -0500 1/15/05, Mike wrote: >Hi, > >I have been using compact fluorescent lights made by Lights of >America for over a year with excellent results for all of my CPs. <...> -- Kit Halsted - kit@carnivorousplants.nyc.ny.us Brooklyn, NY, USDA Zone 7a ################### From: didgerowe at gotalk.net.au (Didge) Date: Sun Jan 16 22:22:56 2005 Subject: [CP] Contacting the NZ CP forum How does someone currently join the New Zealand Carnivorous Plant Forum. The only link I can find no longer works??? Regards Didge Rowe. List owner A web page for the real living stones. ################### From: Markus.Welge at teleos.de (Welge, Markus) Date: Mon Jan 17 07:11:49 2005 Subject: AW: [CP] Flourescent Lights - need heliamphora key You're indeed right to say that Heliamphora and Drosera from high altitudes also requires high light levels. And even when the plants grow in partial shade in their natural habitat they receive more light then in full sun in our regions or under any artificial lights. I think that light is the most important factor for a good and healthy growth. I grow my Heliamphora under 400W High Pressure Sodium Light. I also have very good results with TRUE-LIGHT bulbs which I use for Drosera and Genlisea. They get a very natural colour under this lights. But as far as I know flowers are induced because of lower temperatures and as Heliamphora are flowering in their natural habitat mostly in winter I think the light levels are not unsignificant but don't have such an influence on the flower production. But I can't speak for Drosera because I only grow a handful. Markus, Germany ______________________________________________ Karnivoren in Kultur... http://home.sdirekt-net.de/mwelge5/ >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 12:57:25 -0800 (PST) >From: Christoph Belanger >Subject: [CP] Flourescent Lights - need heliamphora key >To: Cp@omnisterra.com >Message-ID: <20050114205725.72313.qmail@web53806.mail.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >I use mostly daylight (I think 5000K) 3 flourescent >bulbs in conjunction with one grow light. My logic >for this is that the Venezuelan and other Drosera grow >in higher altitudes with higher lighting intensities. >I don't know if this logic makes any sense, but I just >switched all my bulbs in August and I have flower >stalks on all of my mature Heliamphoras (3 very >different-looking clones of heterodoxa and one >nutans). At ther very least I will be able to >identify my Heliamphora... > >Can anyone email to me (privately please so as not to >annoy everyone) Fernando's Heliamphora key me? It >seems my Heliamphora heard my wishes and decided to >flower... > >Christoph ################### From: pbunch at cox.net (Phil Bunch) Date: Mon Jan 17 07:44:22 2005 Subject: [CP] Flourescent Lights - need heliamphora key At -75.57N 8.26N (Venezuela Mountains +/- 2000 meters) minimum temp varies about 3C between Jan and June. Maximum temp varies about 1C. Seasonal photoperiod varies between about hour and 1.5 hours between 6 and 10 degrees of latitude. Some plants do respond to small seasonal variations in night-length. Perhaps a long (at least a year) exposure to this level of variation or would synch the plants? Phil Bunch -----Original Message----- Of Welge, Markus Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 7:12 AM To: Cp@omnisterra.com You're indeed right to say that Heliamphora and Drosera from high altitudes also requires high light levels. And even when the plants grow in partial shade in their natural habitat they receive more light then in full sun in our regions or under any artificial lights. I think that light is the most important factor for a good and healthy growth. I grow my Heliamphora under 400W High Pressure Sodium Light. I also have very good results with TRUE-LIGHT bulbs which I use for Drosera and Genlisea. They get a very natural colour under this lights. But as far as I know flowers are induced because of lower temperatures and as Heliamphora are flowering in their natural habitat mostly in winter I think the light levels are not unsignificant but don't have such an influence on the flower production. But I can't speak for Drosera because I only grow a handful. Markus, Germany ______________________________________________ Karnivoren in Kultur... http://home.sdirekt-net.de/mwelge5/ >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 12:57:25 -0800 (PST) >From: Christoph Belanger >Subject: [CP] Flourescent Lights - need heliamphora key >To: Cp@omnisterra.com >Message-ID: <20050114205725.72313.qmail@web53806.mail.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >I use mostly daylight (I think 5000K) 3 flourescent >bulbs in conjunction with one grow light. My logic >for this is that the Venezuelan and other Drosera grow >in higher altitudes with higher lighting intensities. >I don't know if this logic makes any sense, but I just >switched all my bulbs in August and I have flower >stalks on all of my mature Heliamphoras (3 very >different-looking clones of heterodoxa and one >nutans). At ther very least I will be able to >identify my Heliamphora... > >Can anyone email to me (privately please so as not to >annoy everyone) Fernando's Heliamphora key me? It >seems my Heliamphora heard my wishes and decided to >flower... > >Christoph _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.13 - Release Date: 1/16/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.13 - Release Date: 1/16/2005 ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:16:28 2005 Subject: [CP] news on nepenthesofthailand.com Dear Marcello and CP'ers, I was wondering, what species of _Drosera_ are present, along with the _Nepenthes_? In this photo: http://www.nepenthesofthailand.com/foto2/Pirot1.jpg There appears to be a tuberous _Drosera_ growing right next to the _N. smilesii_. It makes sense to me, since this is the only, or one of a few species of _Nepenthes_ that can form "tubers"--or at least hide underground for several months. Please see: http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~dpevans/N_kampotiana.htm Do you think this plant is _N. smilesii_? It is grown from seed produced by plants imported from Cambodia back in the early eighties or late seventies. If I have the history correct, all, or nearly all of the original plants of this kind have died out, due to the plants entering dormancy, many grower disposed of the pots before the plants returned from underground :( Or, they rotted due to being too wet. Luckily, there were both males and females and some seed was produced. My plant is supposed to be female. I am wondering what would cause it to flower? The tuberous sundews flower every year, but then again, they go dormant every summer, while this _Nepenthes_ does not... Thanks, Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of marcello catalano Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 12:37 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Dear all, I've just added the latest news to my www.nepenthesofthailand.com, they're listed on the first page, but just to make you curious: -the new taxon N. "Viking" was added to the conclusions so far; -a few pics by Tom Kahl were added to the Phu Kradung note, in the northeast map; -a new note and 3 pics of N. mirabilis, thanks to our thai agent Duke, were added to the Center Map; -the new Nepenthes of Cambodia is online, together with a few pics and notes by Julien Gedrusiak; -the new Vip bookmarks will show you how this website is becoming a point of reference for the whole planet; -also a few new lines and pics about N. Viking, thanks to Nong, Duke and Shigeo Kurata, at the bottom of The Trip page please, this site will find its best improvement in your contributions! Thanks! Marcello Catalano ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Mon Jan 17 16:06:57 2005 Subject: [CP] Crestview,Ivan damage Hey Everyone, I am happy to report that due to exact directions I was able to find the Crestviewsite. It is still there. I do not think the owner was too happy. It will be hard for him to ditch and drain because there is a fairly large lake behind the site full of Sarracenia. I cannot remember who but I know it was one of muy friends in Atlanta who gave me directions. You guys did a good job cleaning the site out, saving the Sarrs. I only found 8, 7 gulfness and 1 leuco. I got soem great pictures also. Hurrican Ivan did not do much damage to our hungary friends. All the locations I went to were fine, except many Sarrs had died down to near groundlevel, undoubtedly because of high winds. Biophilia did not hava any damage. I am happy to report that from the owner (Carol Lovell) I bought about 300 S. flava seeds from the infamous Navarre publix site. I do not know the websit,( but its title is gulfcoast Carnivores or something like that) that has pictures of this site with all the S. flava. Tre ################### From: john.wilden at hmce.gsi.gov.uk (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) Date: Mon Jan 17 23:36:44 2005 Subject: [CP] CPN (again) Dear all (ICPS officers in particular), Has there been any problems with the distribution of the December ICPN in Europe? I note that subscribers in the US seemed to have their copies prior to Christmas, but I have yet to receive mine. I thought that leaving it a while, given that the holiday season creates mayhem in the postal system, would eventually pay dividends, but so far my copy is a no-show.Have any other European subscribers received theirs yet? If I was paranoid I'd swear that this is nothing more than an attempt to prevent argument, sorry strike that, discussion on the merits of the new batch of cultivars. But I'm not, so I wont ;) Regards John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ################### From: john.wilden at hmce.gsi.gov.uk (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) Date: Tue Jan 18 05:38:06 2005 Subject: [CP] FW: Disability Living Allowance guides John Wilden Credibility Assurance and Statistics Team X38385 -----Original Message----- Sent: 17 January 2005 14:02 Dear All, I know that I have sent you guidance in the past on the methods of making your DLA claim as effective as possible. But I think that the guidance on this site is, if anything, even better. http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/benefits/guides_index.htm My thanks to Mark Hibell, who sent me the link to this site. (Admittedly quite some time ago...) Regards, Sarah VPN 8303 8950 The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. ################### From: ThomBroGar at aol.com (ThomBroGar@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:01:59 2005 Subject: [CP] Help stop an atrocity in N.C. bog country Dear friends, I was sent this and I signed it. Here is a way to possibly help save one small area. Every bit helps. If you feel strongly please pass this e-mail (without addresses attached) along to others. Brooks Here's the info: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?HELP US SAVE BRUNSWICK COUNTY Auto fluff is the non-ferrous residual left from the shredding of vehicles and appliances. ?Fluff is one of the leading sources of mercury and contains many other hazardous materials such as arsenic, cadmium, chromium, copper, lead, benzene, PAHs, ethylbenzene, PCBs, toluene, vinyl chloride, trichloroethylene, and xylenes. ?Three of these permeate state-of-the art HDPE landfill liners in 1 to 13 days. Hugo Neu, an international metal shredding giant headquartered in New York, plans to transport fluff from its shredding operations to the Cape Fear Lowlands adjacent to the Cape Fear River in Brunswick County, North Carolina, and stockpile it in a landfill 350 feet high over a 170-acre footprint. Brunswick County is home to beautiful white sand beaches, two aquifer outcroppings, ?and the Green Swamp, whose species diversity is topped only by the Great Rain Forest of Central America. ?Here in the Green Swamp Preserve, you will find longleaf pine savannas, wild orchids, and 14 varieties of insectivorous plants. http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/155621293 ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Tue Jan 18 12:21:40 2005 Subject: [CP] CPN deliveries Hey John, Well, I always get complaints about CPN deliveries. But since we have a LARGE number of international deliveries, there are always glitches with late deliveries to this or that place. It is the unfortunate event that mail takes too long to get overseas. However, we have NOT gotten the kind of mass complaints that have happened in the past when there were real problems. I remember when all the issues to Japan got sent to the wrong place, for example. What a mess. I have not gotten mass mailings about the last couple of issues... So there is no need for paranoia. Of course, I have made a note by your name in the membership roster that any CPN issues with new cultivar descriptions should not be sent to you---it was on your doctor's orders---he said something about blood pressure and heart stress. :) Cheers Barry > > > Dear all (ICPS officers in particular), > Has there been any problems with the distribution of the > December ICPN in Europe? > I note that subscribers in the US seemed to have their copies > prior to Christmas, but I have yet to receive mine. > > I thought that leaving it a while, given that the holiday > season creates mayhem in the postal system, would eventually > pay dividends, but so far my copy is a no-show.Have any other > European subscribers received theirs yet? > > If I was paranoid I'd swear that this is nothing more than an > attempt to prevent argument, sorry strike that, discussion on > the merits of the new > batch of cultivars. But I'm not, so I wont ;) ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Tue Jan 18 14:43:46 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Biophilia I forgot to add a web site www.biophilia.net Oh and Carol's last name is Lovell-Saas not just Lovell. ################### From: snong69 at hotmail.com (Nong Thailand) Date: Tue Jan 18 19:14:24 2005 Subject: [CP] Devastation of Nepenthes Viking's main Habitat after Tsunami. Hi All Nep. Enthusiasts, Nepenthes Viking is an unidentified spp. (hybrid?) that can be found on an Island in Andaman sea , west of Southern Thailand . On Sunday of 26 Dec. 2004 ,massive waves triggered by the largest earthquake in more than 40 years have wiped out coastal areas across parts of Asia, killing more than 11,000 people . Most of the Islands in Andaman sea included the remote small Island where "Viking" grow , were heavily damaged. Now I can acquire pictures disclose the devastation of Viking's habitat after Tsunami. Please visit : http://www.neofarmthailand.com/index.php?lay=show&ac=article&Id=76850&Ntype=6 Thanks. Nong _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ################### From: john.wilden at hmce.gsi.gov.uk (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) Date: Tue Jan 18 23:56:53 2005 Subject: [CP] re-disability subject -oops! Dear all, Apologies for sending the message about disability living guides. It was forwarded to this group by mistake. John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ################### From: john.wilden at hmce.gsi.gov.uk (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) Date: Wed Jan 19 00:02:33 2005 Subject: [CP] Crestview-Ivan damage Hurrican Ivan did not do much damage to our hungary friends. All the locations I went to were fine, except many Sarrs had died down to near groundlevel, undoubtedly because of high winds. I presume that rather than the high winds, they have died down because its Winter? Regards John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ################### From: Markus.Welge at teleos.de (Welge, Markus) Date: Wed Jan 19 00:21:29 2005 Subject: AW: [CP] CPN (again) I also didn't receive my copy but after asking Cindy it was immediately sent again and I received it yesterday. I'm also looking for some older copies of the ICPS-Newsletter. If anyone is able to offer some recent issues for sale please contact me privately at mailto:markus.welge@sdirekt-net.de. Markus, Germany ______________________________________________ Karnivoren in Kultur... http://home.sdirekt-net.de/mwelge5/ >------------------------------ > >Message: 3 >Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 07:37:22 -0000 >From: "Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}" > >Subject: [CP] CPN (again) >To: "CP chatgroup (E-mail)" >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Dear all (ICPS officers in particular), >Has there been any problems with the distribution of the December ICPN in >Europe? >I note that subscribers in the US seemed to have their copies prior to >Christmas, but I have yet to receive mine. > >I thought that leaving it a while, given that the holiday season creates >mayhem in the postal system, would eventually pay dividends, but so far my >copy is a no-show.Have any other European subscribers received theirs yet? > >If I was paranoid I'd swear that this is nothing more than an attempt to >prevent argument, sorry strike that, discussion on the merits of the new >batch of cultivars. But I'm not, so I wont ;) > > Regards > >John Wilden >Southport >Lancashire. >UK ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Wed Jan 19 05:25:17 2005 Subject: [CP] CPN in post John said that he had still not received his copy of the CPN. I hadn't either, a few days ago. I shouldn't worry too much John, it will turn up eventually. When Leo Song used to be involved with it all, there was something strange about the mailing system used because us Europeans used to very often receive our copies before the US. I think that this might have changed over the years, to another sytem. It's not related to anything that you've said either, so you don't have to be paranoid about it all. Your posting about the disability benefits was rather interesting, a bit off topic. These things happen when you sometimes press the wrong key. It wasn't quite as funny as the love letter that was inadvertantly posted a few years ago. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: mp.vandenbroek at wanadoo.nl (Marcel van den Broek) Date: Wed Jan 19 10:55:57 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 20, Issue 18, CPN again Hi John and others, So far total no-show of the decemberedition in the Netherlands as far as I can tell. How stands the (rest of the europian) union? Marcel van den Broek Secretary of Dutch CP workgroup Carnivora -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] Namens Cp-request@omnisterra.com Verzonden: dinsdag 18 januari 2005 21:16 Aan: Cp@omnisterra.com Onderwerp: Cp Digest, Vol 20, Issue 18 Send Cp mailing list submissions to Cp@omnisterra.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to Cp-request@omnisterra.com You can reach the person managing the list at Cp-owner@omnisterra.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Cp digest..." CP Mailing list Today's Topics: 1. RE: news on nepenthesofthailand.com (Dave Evans) 2. Crestview,Ivan damage (Tre Bond) 3. CPN (again) (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) 4. FW: Disability Living Allowance guides (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) 5. Help stop an atrocity in N.C. bog country (ThomBroGar@aol.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Marcello and CP'ers, I was wondering, what species of _Drosera_ are present, along with the _Nepenthes_? In this photo: http://www.nepenthesofthailand.com/foto2/Pirot1.jpg There appears to be a tuberous _Drosera_ growing right next to the _N. smilesii_. It makes sense to me, since this is the only, or one of a few species of _Nepenthes_ that can form "tubers"--or at least hide underground for several months. Please see: http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~dpevans/N_kampotiana.htm Do you think this plant is _N. smilesii_? It is grown from seed produced by plants imported from Cambodia back in the early eighties or late seventies. If I have the history correct, all, or nearly all of the original plants of this kind have died out, due to the plants entering dormancy, many grower disposed of the pots before the plants returned from underground :( Or, they rotted due to being too wet. Luckily, there were both males and females and some seed was produced. My plant is supposed to be female. I am wondering what would cause it to flower? The tuberous sundews flower every year, but then again, they go dormant every summer, while this _Nepenthes_ does not... Thanks, Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Behalf Of marcello catalano Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 12:37 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Dear all, I've just added the latest news to my www.nepenthesofthailand.com, they're listed on the first page, but just to make you curious: -the new taxon N. "Viking" was added to the conclusions so far; -a few pics by Tom Kahl were added to the Phu Kradung note, in the northeast map; -a new note and 3 pics of N. mirabilis, thanks to our thai agent Duke, were added to the Center Map; -the new Nepenthes of Cambodia is online, together with a few pics and notes by Julien Gedrusiak; -the new Vip bookmarks will show you how this website is becoming a point of reference for the whole planet; -also a few new lines and pics about N. Viking, thanks to Nong, Duke and Shigeo Kurata, at the bottom of The Trip page please, this site will find its best improvement in your contributions! Thanks! Marcello Catalano ------------------------------ Message: 2 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <20050118000644.69963.qmail@web53310.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hey Everyone, I am happy to report that due to exact directions I was able to find the Crestviewsite. It is still there. I do not think the owner was too happy. It will be hard for him to ditch and drain because there is a fairly large lake behind the site full of Sarracenia. I cannot remember who but I know it was one of muy friends in Atlanta who gave me directions. You guys did a good job cleaning the site out, saving the Sarrs. I only found 8, 7 gulfness and 1 leuco. I got soem great pictures also. Hurrican Ivan did not do much damage to our hungary friends. All the locations I went to were fine, except many Sarrs had died down to near groundlevel, undoubtedly because of high winds. Biophilia did not hava any damage. I am happy to report that from the owner (Carol Lovell) I bought about 300 S. flava seeds from the infamous Navarre publix site. I do not know the websit,( but its title is gulfcoast Carnivores or something like that) that has pictures of this site with all the S. flava. Tre --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page ? Try My Yahoo! ------------------------------ Message: 3 To: "CP chatgroup (E-mail)" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear all (ICPS officers in particular), Has there been any problems with the distribution of the December ICPN in Europe? I note that subscribers in the US seemed to have their copies prior to Christmas, but I have yet to receive mine. I thought that leaving it a while, given that the holiday season creates mayhem in the postal system, would eventually pay dividends, but so far my copy is a no-show.Have any other European subscribers received theirs yet? If I was paranoid I'd swear that this is nothing more than an attempt to prevent argument, sorry strike that, discussion on the merits of the new batch of cultivars. But I'm not, so I wont ;) Regards John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ------------------------------ Message: 4 To: "CP chatgroup (E-mail)" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" John Wilden Credibility Assurance and Statistics Team X38385 -----Original Message----- Sent: 17 January 2005 14:02 Dear All, I know that I have sent you guidance in the past on the methods of making your DLA claim as effective as possible. But I think that the guidance on this site is, if anything, even better. http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/benefits/guides_index.htm My thanks to Mark Hibell, who sent me the link to this site. (Admittedly quite some time ago...) Regards, Sarah VPN 8303 8950 The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ------------------------------ Message: 5 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <7e.6140c4b3.2f1eb715@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Dear friends, I was sent this and I signed it. Here is a way to possibly help save one small area. Every bit helps. If you feel strongly please pass this e-mail (without addresses attached) along to others. Brooks Here's the info: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?HELP US SAVE BRUNSWICK COUNTY Auto fluff is the non-ferrous residual left from the shredding of vehicles and appliances. ?Fluff is one of the leading sources of mercury and contains many other hazardous materials such as arsenic, cadmium, chromium, copper, lead, benzene, PAHs, ethylbenzene, PCBs, toluene, vinyl chloride, trichloroethylene, and xylenes. ?Three of these permeate state-of-the art HDPE landfill liners in 1 to 13 days. Hugo Neu, an international metal shredding giant headquartered in New York, plans to transport fluff from its shredding operations to the Cape Fear Lowlands adjacent to the Cape Fear River in Brunswick County, North Carolina, and stockpile it in a landfill 350 feet high over a 170-acre footprint. Brunswick County is home to beautiful white sand beaches, two aquifer outcroppings, ?and the Green Swamp, whose species diversity is topped only by the Great Rain Forest of Central America. ?Here in the Green Swamp Preserve, you will find longleaf pine savannas, wild orchids, and 14 varieties of insectivorous plants. http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/155621293 ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com End of Cp Digest, Vol 20, Issue 18 ********************************** ################### From: john63401 at fastmail.fm (John) Date: Wed Jan 19 12:33:26 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 20, Issue 19 Question for the group.... What kind of living can one make in the CP world? Can a living even be made? If yes.... in what? What kind of work and what studies? Im seriously thinking abt changing job fields. Have always been in manufacturing as a CAD tech but have always had a serious interest in CP Im willing to go back to college..... but what studies for the CP industry? Thanks in advance! ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Wed Jan 19 13:23:07 2005 Subject: [CP] Making a living in CP? What "CP industry"? First, define your expectations of "making a living". Most folks that I know that grow (and sell) CPs are not getting rich from their business. For many, their business is a hobby that sometimes pays the bills and allows them to do something that they enjoy. CPs are a speciality market with a limited number of potential buyers. Some CP enthusiasts are in academic institutions and publish profound papers on the cellular chemical response Utricularia trigger hairs to stimulation. A nice job if you can get it. Others make a career arguing whether U. livida and U. microcalyx are the same or different species. Some do tissue culture for mass market throw-away nurseries. However, I expect that the vast number of people in the "CP industry" have another kind of job and grow CPs as a hobby or sideline. If I am wrong, I expect that one of you CP millionaires out there will tell us the secret of "How I made a million bucks in the CP industry". John wrote: > Question for the group.... > > What kind of living can one make in the CP world? > > Can a living even be made? If yes.... in what? What kind of work and > what studies? > > Im seriously thinking abt changing job fields. Have always been in > manufacturing as a CAD tech but have always had a serious interest in CP > > Im willing to go back to college..... but what studies for the CP > industry? > > Thanks in advance! ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Wed Jan 19 14:48:10 2005 Subject: [CP] Brit ICPS members Hey Folks, Are there any folks in the UK who have received their CPNs yet? Please email me if/when you get your issue. I'm just testing the waters regarding shipping delays. Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Wed Jan 19 15:42:16 2005 Subject: [CP] Wanted: Utricularia intermedia I am also looking for now Utricularia intermedia . Wolf ################### From: utsubokazura at hotmail.com (Amaury Watanabe) Date: Thu Jan 20 00:54:22 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: CPN Issues in Europe I have received my December issue of the CPN last week (in the UK). I don't know whether it has something to do with me being a new member or not. Hopefully everyone will get their copy soon! Cheers, Amori ################### From: paul.temple at eds.com (Temple, Paul) Date: Thu Jan 20 11:09:12 2005 Subject: [CP] Off topic - anyone translate Latin? Can anyone translate (reliably) the phrase "Spernit Inertiam" It's nothing to do with CPs but is possibly botanical (i.e. linked to a botanist). And before any Brits with a strange sense of humour comment (yes, you know who you are!), no, despite the millions I earned from the Carnivorous Plants RHS book, I can't afford to pay for a translation. :-) Answers can be sent privately unless the meaning is assumed to be of wider interest. Paul ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Thu Jan 20 14:35:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Off topic - anyone translate Latin? Pay? Ha! A quick Google search called up a freeware Latin translator. http://www.levity.com/alchemy/latin/latintrans.html It works on my Windows machine. Not sure about Mac. Anyway, it translates Spernit = He despises/scorns (as in spurn) and Inertiam sluggishness (as in inertia). Gary Kong "Temple, Paul" wrote: >Can anyone translate (reliably) the phrase > > "Spernit Inertiam" > > >It's nothing to do with CPs but is possibly botanical (i.e. linked to >a botanist). > >And before any Brits with a strange sense of humour comment (yes, you >know who you are!), no, despite the millions I earned from the >Carnivorous Plants RHS book, I can't afford to pay for a translation. >:-) > >Answers can be sent privately unless the meaning is assumed to be of >wider interest. > >Paul > > > >_______________________________________________ Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Thu Jan 20 14:47:08 2005 Subject: [CP] winter pesticide application it's midwinter in the northern half of the world and i was wondering if it makes sense to apply pesticide to my dormant plants. i finally got around to trimming last year's dead growth and noticed that my Darlingtonia had a severe thrips infestation. i fear that the infestation may extend beneath the growing medium. does anyone have any suggestions in how to eradicate the pest? i still have a nearly full bottle of Orthene, but worry that it might harm my plants while they're dormant. (aside from it being highly toxic to the environment. my plants are in containers, though.) Gary Kong -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Thu Jan 20 15:01:58 2005 Subject: [CP] Good news for threatened plants? A study by Botanic Gardens Conservation International says about 9,000 species which are threatened in the wild are in fact thriving in botanic gardens. This is about a quarter of all the plants which are known to be at risk, but a fraction of the possible total. Scientists say anything up to 100,000 species may disappear because of both habitat destruction and climate change. Unfortunately, those plants "saved" in botanic gardens would likely represent only a small portion of that species natural gene pool. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4187053.stm ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Thu Jan 20 15:18:31 2005 Subject: [CP] winter pesticide application The dormant period is often the best time to apply pesticides and other chemicals, because the plant has prepared to survive molestation by harsh conditions of winter. However, this is also the time when many pests are in protective casings and may not be as vulnerable to some pesticides. Dormant oil sprays are recommended for thrips control on fruit trees, but I don't know about Darlingtonia. I expect that Orthene would be most effective just as the nymphs are hatching. -Bob- Gary Kong wrote: > it's midwinter in the northern half of the world and i was wondering > if it makes sense to apply pesticide to my dormant plants. i finally > got around to trimming last year's dead growth and noticed that my > Darlingtonia had a severe thrips infestation. i fear that the > infestation may extend beneath the growing medium. does anyone have > any suggestions in how to eradicate the pest? i still have a nearly > full bottle of Orthene, but worry that it might harm my plants while > they're dormant. (aside from it being highly toxic to the > environment. my plants are in containers, though.) > > Gary Kong ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Thu Jan 20 16:08:59 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 20, Issue 20 Hey Paul, according to my latin dictionary it means: unskilful lover but literally means lover unskilful. Inertiam can also mean idle. I deciede to tell the whole group because I am sure many people went scrambling. On the CP front My website got approved for the webring. Message: 6 To: "'Cp@omnisterra.com'" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain Can anyone translate (reliably) the phrase "Spernit Inertiam" It's nothing to do with CPs but is possibly botanical (i.e. linked to a botanist). And before any Brits with a strange sense of humour comment (yes, you know who you are!), no, despite the millions I earned from the Carnivorous Plants RHS book, I can't afford to pay for a translation. :-) Answers can be sent privately unless the meaning is assumed to be of wider interest. Paul ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com End of Cp Digest, Vol 20, Issue 20 ********************************** ################### From: meadow at bealenet.com (meadow@bealenet.com) Date: Thu Jan 20 17:04:22 2005 Subject: [CP] making a living in CP comment - ecological monkhood Hi John: If you want to make a living raising CP I suggest you consider this a monastic devotion. The pursuit of raising, restoring, and protecting these plants truly makes us ecological monks. I can tell you that if you make the move to do this you will receive tremendous personal satisfaction but your reward will not necessarily be material. I encourage you to follow your heart and do what you have a passion to do, the rest will follow. I spent 10 years in banking making peanuts and the best move I made was to start a non-profit to devote myself to ecological restoration. If you have family then you must carefully weigh your responsibilities. I wish you luck and hope you find what you seek. Sincerely, Phil Sheridan http://www.bealenet.com ################### From: pbunch at cox.net (Phil Bunch) Date: Thu Jan 20 18:30:39 2005 Subject: [CP] Good news for threatened plants? In addition an organism outside it's habitat is only part of the story. A small part. -----Original Message----- Of Robert Ziemer Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 3:02 PM To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group A study by Botanic Gardens Conservation International says about 9,000 species which are threatened in the wild are in fact thriving in botanic gardens. This is about a quarter of all the plants which are known to be at risk, but a fraction of the possible total. Scientists say anything up to 100,000 species may disappear because of both habitat destruction and climate change. Unfortunately, those plants "saved" in botanic gardens would likely represent only a small portion of that species natural gene pool. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4187053.stm _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.0 - Release Date: 1/17/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.0 - Release Date: 1/17/2005 ################### From: jim_miller at mindspring.com (Jim Miller) Date: Thu Jan 20 20:18:38 2005 Subject: [CP] Making a living in CP? Greetings all on this chilly January evening. I had to smile at the notion of anyone making a living in the CP industry. Bob Hanrahan (of World Insectivorous Plants) used to laugh when people showed up at his facility in Arroyo Grande, California, expecting to see teams of researchers in white coats and battalions of horticulturalists, all working at a feverish pace, cloning, hybridizing and propagating the millions of plants required to fill the planet's need for carnivorous plants. True, the WIP growing facilities were impressive, but were handled pretty much by Bob alone. I'm sure there are several people who may earn a modest living from the sales of CP, or more likely, subsidize their family's income by propagating plants, but even during the "green years" (during the late 1970s and early '80s) when house plants were a big thing, the demand for CP came from a relatively small group of dedicated growers and hobbyists. John, nobody is going to make fun of you for thinking that carnivorous plants are a "cash crop" anywhere in the world. I'm sure that most of us at one time or another envisioned a burgeoning market for these fascinating plants. The truth is that CP are extremely hard to grow unless you are able to provide exacting temperatures, perfect growing mediums and proper pH levels in your water supply. Even the most tenacious growers give up after losing a few dozen plants. Typically, the most successful growers have always been individuals who found the time to get out in the field and see just how the plants grow in natural conditions. And it doesn't hurt to have a "green thumb" either. Most of the people I know, like Bob Ziemer, Brooks Garcia, Fernando Rivadavia and Stewart McPherson -- excellent gentlemen all, and just the first few to come to mind -- grow, distribute and share their experience with CP out of their love for the plants, not in hopes of ever making a single penny. Besides, if anyone ever were to get rich from CP, odds are good they wouldn't be spending their time on the Internet, helping others with taxonomy, growing tips and general information. When it comes to CP, the old show business axiom comes to mind: "Don't quit your day job!" It's advice I have always taken to heart. Patiently waiting for warmer weather, Jim ################### From: Jeremiahsplants at adelphia.net (Jeremiah Harris) Date: Thu Jan 20 20:43:15 2005 Subject: [CP] lots of my Nepenthes photos Hello, I thought you all might enjoy seeing photos of some of the Nepenthes I grow. Here is the link http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc.html?gpp=247&pst=70901 Let me know what you think thanks -Jeremiah- ________________________________________________________ Colorado Carnivorous Plant Society Jeremiah Harris 712 Columbia Rd Colorado Springs CO 80904 (719)-578-8123 AIM: Nepenthesrajah jeremiahsplants@adelphia.net http://www.geocities.com/colorado_carnivorousplantsociety/ ################### From: snong69 at hotmail.com (Nong Thailand) Date: Thu Jan 20 22:39:18 2005 Subject: [CP] NeoExoticPlant Update catalog Hi All, For ones who are interested in South East Asian Nepenthes .Thailand , Laos and Cambodia . I would like to invite you to visit our ad hoc catalog for " Tr Code plants" for special occasion and limited quantity. Thanks. Nong , NeoExoticPlants _________________________________________________________________ Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.com/ ################### From: nepenthes at borneoexotics.com (Borneo Exotics (Pvt) Ltd) Date: Thu Jan 20 23:22:25 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Making a living in CP? Ha! Ha! Bob, I'm thinking of writing a book about this and calling it: "How I spent a million bucks in CP's" Seriously though, there are a few full-time CP operatives out there. Geoff Mansell and ourselves to name but two that spring to mind. I don't know about Best Carnivorous Plants. I can tell you this though, it's hard, unrelenting, frustrating and sometimes soul destroying work. I woldn't recommend it as a career move. If I had my time over I probably would have stayed an engineer! Rob Cantley Borneo Exotics www.borneoexotcs.com ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Thu Jan 20 23:51:07 2005 Subject: [CP] Making a living in CP? In a message dated 1/20/2005 8:19:05 PM Pacific Standard Time, jim_miller@mindspring.com writes: I had to smile at the notion of anyone making a living in the CP industry. Bob Hanrahan (of World Insectivorous Plants) used to laugh when people showed up at his facility in Arroyo Grande, California, expecting to see teams of researchers in white coats and battalions of horticulturalists, all working at a feverish pace, cloning, hybridizing and propagating the millions of plants required to fill the planet's need for carnivorous plants. True, the WIP growing facilities were impressive, but were handled pretty much by Bob alone. That's certainly how I imagined his facility would look like back in the eighties when I was ordering from him. I kinda figured/hoped he was making a mint off his plants, imagine my disappointment when I heard he was closing up shop because continuing to subsidize us CP addicts was hardly a profitable endeavour. Yet, I still keep that naive view in mind of any of the companies I order from. I remember visiting Marie's Orchids back in the early nineties, expecting a large greenhouse of plants, only to find merely an extensive backyard operation. My hat's off to the people who try to make a go of it, because trying to turn this hobby into a business takes more passion than I can muster, thass fo' shure. TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Thu Jan 20 23:56:13 2005 Subject: [CP] winter pesticide application In a message dated 1/20/2005 2:47:44 PM Pacific Standard Time, garkoinsf@netscape.net writes: it's midwinter in the northern half of the world and i was wondering if it makes sense to apply pesticide to my dormant plants. i finally got around to trimming last year's dead growth and noticed that my Darlingtonia had a severe thrips infestation. i fear that the infestation may extend beneath the growing medium. does anyone have any suggestions in how to eradicate the pest? i still have a nearly full bottle of Orthene, but worry that it might harm my plants while they're dormant. (aside from it being highly toxic to the environment. my plants are in containers, though.) ----------------------------- Well, this is the time of year that I typically clean up my plants, removing dead leaves, etcetera, and applying pesticide and fungicide. It's worked well for me so far. TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Fri Jan 21 13:02:05 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Making a living on cps Hey, Well you are going to need a "real" website not free like geocities. You will also need to do constant advertising. Unless you can sell over $100 worth of plants a month you will not break even not to mention your cost of living. You will need to have a constant supply of some plants and have rare plants that no one else sells. You could start a cp nursery on the side and use that revenue to import and buy new plants for stock. I would like to start a real cp nursery on the side but do not have the money, time, or ability to hve a greenhouse. All of which dampen my efforts. At best I can, and would be advisable for you to do, is propagate lots of what you have via leaf, root and rhizome cuttings and sell or trade them on a free website. If you do not have a greenhouse that would help you a lot. I hope my suggestions have helped. Tre Bond ################### From: Jacob at cobraplant.com (Jacob Farin) Date: Fri Jan 21 19:48:55 2005 Subject: [CP] Making a living in CP? Hey Rob (Borneo Exotics), I started off as a doctor in primary care before I started managing my friend's carnivorous plant business. I had my own private practice and worked 3 days a week. After doing that for several years, the passion of medicine ran dry, and I seriously dreaded going to the office. So, I left private practice and took over the business aspect of Sarracenia Northwest. Yes, I now work 60 hours a week for less money. But, since I took over the business, sales have increased exponentially. If I had to do it all over again, I would ditch med school and study business/marketing instead. Personally, I enjoy the challenges of running a carnivorous plant nursery over running a private practice. If any of you out there want to make a living selling carnivorous plants, it can be done. The real issue is how you approach the business. It is challenging, and the market share is small, and people have a lot of preconceptions about carnivorous plants. But, that is where the real work is. Yes, you need a quality product, but the next required element is developing a long-term relationship with your customers. And you do that by understanding your market. Because the market is a lot smaller than other horticultural businesses, like lilies, bulbs, or roses, a lot of creativity is required. You can't simply set up a booth at a farmers' market or post a website, you have to have a strategy for getting through people's barrier to buying your product. (As a secret, price is not much of a factor as you might think.) I think this is how Jeff and I are able to make this a go. He has the horticultural expertise to create a good product, and I have the business expertise to sell his products. He grows the plants, and I run the business. So, if you want to make a living in CPs, it can be done. My one advice is to learn how to think like a businessperson. Start looking for ways to connect with people in meaningful ways. Jacob Farin Sarracenia Northwest ################### From: pinguiculacp at hotmail.com (Michael Lu) Date: Sat Jan 22 01:18:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Making a living in CP? Here's an article about California Carnivores that relates to this topic: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2002/10/25/NB125734.DTL ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Sat Jan 22 09:30:01 2005 Subject: [CP] making a living in CP comment - ecological monkhood As a native plant gardener,just helping preserving native cps is a good feeling. But any cps I sell the money goes towards the garden. To make a living selling CPs is same as any nurseries,a so-so business. You make a living,but not get rich. And there be many times that you don't sell any thing for few weeks,and even few months. Wolf ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sat Jan 22 15:02:11 2005 Subject: [CP] D. capillaris x. brevifolia Who has a picture of this plant? I could not find it on Bob Z's site. ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Sun Jan 23 00:56:16 2005 Subject: [CP] Making a living in CP's For most CP enthusiasts, the best option is getting a job which pays loads of money, or going into a business which does, then growing CP's as a hobby. You will certainly find this the most enjoyable way to keep CP's. If you have to keep a CP nursery day in and day out, you could find it all a bit of a drag. Although you are very keen on CP's at the moment, I think that you may find that this love of CP's will tail off a bit, if you are under pressure to make a living with them. Alastair Pearce of Southwest CP's doesn't come to many CPS meetings anymore, he's had enough of them by the end of the day. Not all businesses or jobs which you enjoy doing make a lot of money, certainly, what I do doesn't, but I wouldn't want to do anything else. I drive a van for a living, but it leaves me free to get the most out of my collection when I am not working. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Sun Jan 23 08:39:12 2005 Subject: [CP] D. meristocaulis Ladies and Gentlemen, Last weekend I went to the San Francisco bay area to see Fernando Rivadavia give a show on his latest adventure and the finding of D. meristocaulis. I am now happy to announce: we have germination! Ivan ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: CALIFCARN at aol.com (CALIFCARN@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 23 10:34:27 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: The CP Biz ################### From: jan.schlauer at uni-tuebingen.de (Priv.-Doz. Dr. Jan Schlauer) Date: Sun Jan 23 14:45:54 2005 Subject: [CP] Off topic - anyone translate Latin? Dear Paul, > "Spernit Inertiam" Could be translated as "(he/she/it =?the plant) rejects/removes idleness". The statement could be related to some biological activity of a constituent of a plant or plant extract or to the qualities of a person. Kind regards Jan ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Sun Jan 23 16:16:05 2005 Subject: [CP] re: D. meristocaulis Hi Ivan, I'm happy to hear this. My growing area's very cold right now so I think this explains why things are germinating slowly here. So far, the D. roraimaes and G. repens are up, but I'm still waiting for the hirticalyx, meristocaulis and a few others to germinate. Any day now! Matt -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Message: 3 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <20050123.083622.6286.61618@webmail22.nyc.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain Ladies and Gentlemen, Last weekend I went to the San Francisco bay area to see Fernando Rivadavia give a show on his latest adventure and the finding of D. meristocaulis. I am now happy to announce: we have germination! Ivan ################### From: parsont at peak.org (Louise Parsons) Date: Sun Jan 23 18:29:42 2005 Subject: [CP] making a living in CP comment - ecological monkhood This book is a must for anyone contemplating their own commercial nursery. "So You Want to Start a Nursery" By Tony Avent (owner of Plant Delights Nursery) 2003, Timber Press, ISBN:0-88192-584-5 http://www.timberpress.com/books/isbn.cfm/0-88192-584-5 All the best, Louise Corvallis, Oregon ################### From: ClaraVoiAunt at aol.com (ClaraVoiAunt@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 23 22:56:52 2005 Subject: [CP] . Re: Making a living on cps In My humble opinion it is possible to eek out a living as a C.P. grower if you can meet all the following conditions: 1. Own your own property. 2. Have a rich relative, partner or spouse that you can fall back on when times are lean 3. Have a large greenhouse/ shade house that is already built 4. Have a pure water supply that is uphill from where you want to grow your plants.saves on pumping the water to the plants 5. Live some place other than California, where all things are not as expensive including the labor and materials 6. Have some other plant that you can grow to market size from plugs, in 8 weeks , not 3 months to several years. 7. Not really care if your plants die in the hands of an under-educated CP. grower or retailer. 8.Be prerared to go out int the worst kind of weather to try and save your grow house from being blown away by the wind or damaging your entire crop. 9. Prepare yourself for that customer who is dissatisfied for shipping them too many plants. 10. And last but not least find people who can take care of the plants as well as you can if you become sick or disabled. ################### From: ClaraVoiAunt at aol.com (ClaraVoiAunt@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 23 23:06:01 2005 Subject: [CP] meristocaulis Hey there Ivan. I too was at that event in San Francsico. Not only did I meet and see Fernando Riverdavia give a slide show on his latest adventure of finding D meristocaulis. I met the GREAT Ivan Synder cross breeder extrordiaire of drosera, not once but trwice. It was great putting some faces to the names that Peter D is throwing around all the time. keep 'em plants growin' Lois In a message dated 1/23/2005 12:07:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: > Subject: [CP] D. meristocaulis To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: > <20050123.083622.6286.61618@webmail22.nyc.untd.com> Content-Type: > text/plain > > > > Ladies and Gentlemen, Last weekend I went to the San Francisco bay > area to see Fernando Rivadavia give a show on his latest adventure and > the finding of D. meristocaulis. I am now happy to announce: we have > germination! Ivan > ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Mon Jan 24 01:41:20 2005 Subject: [CP] D. meristocaulis Great news Ivan! Congrats, you're the first one to get these seeds to germinate, as far as I know!!! I was beginning to get worried... As for the meeting in SF, it was great seeing you and other old CP friends again, as well as meeting all those new people. Wish I'd had more time to talk to everyone though. The Berkeley Botanical Garden is beautiful and deserves a more careful visit next time I'm in the area. Best wishes, Fernando > Ladies and Gentlemen, > Last weekend I went to the San Francisco bay area to see Fernando Rivadavia give a show on his latest adventure and the finding of D. meristocaulis. I am now happy to announce: we have germination! > Ivan ################### From: vic-brown at vbrown.fsnet.co.uk (Victor Brown) Date: Mon Jan 24 03:57:50 2005 Subject: [CP] CPN Arrived UK Just a note for Barry, my copy of the CPN has just arrived. Cheers Vic Brown Cambridgeshire, UK -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 21/01/2005 ################### From: nepenthes at borneoexotics.com (Borneo Exotics (Pvt) Ltd) Date: Mon Jan 24 07:54:51 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Making a living in CP - disaster example Interesting discussions, close to my heart! I've been offline for the past 3 days so just catching up and now I'm inspired to write a little book here ;-) Before get started, Bob Hanrahan, I've stupidly accidentally deleted what appeared to be a very interesting e-mail from you on this topic off my server and don't have your e-mail address. If you're reading this, please would you resend it - thanks! Your story Jacob was particularly interesting and I hope all continues to go well for you. I do think the plants you are growing perhaps have more mass market appeal than Nepenthes. Working with Neps isn't any sort of get-rich quick scheme - that's for sure but it has it's fun aspects. It's a statistic that (in Europe at least) the majority of businesses fail in making the transition from small to medium sized. The statistics apparently show maximal mortality when the number of employees passes 17. Failure is usually the result of the boss(es) being unable to delegate efficiently. At BE we are still probably going though that transition at 35 employees and I have to confess that I trust very few of the staff entirely with such a precious and perishable item as rare Nepenthes plants. Probably the reason haven't taken a vacation in 8 years. The reason we've managed to get even this far is probably mainly because of lessons learned in the blooming and wilting of my earlier enterprise 'Isra Exotics' based out of Brunei in the 1980's. The entire nursery measured 30' x 30', about the same bench space than we lost to strong winds and rain last night alone - more about that later. It was far more of a game in those days, just me and the occasional intern, some of whom later went on to achieve fame in the CP world in their own right. One day I'll write up some anecdotes - eh Admiral?! An example of the sort of disaster that can befall a nursery at any time? Here we go: This morning we found that an unprecedented storm has wiped out a whole section of our lowland nursery. 75m (about 80 yards) of benching had been brought down with the collapse of the roof under torrential rain and amazingly strong winds. Perhaps a twister. I make that about 3,500 plants in 6" pots all over the place. The plants will for the most part be salvaged and we're lucky it's not the rarest of species. Just another day in the business. Another disaster, well mishap: We recently had to burn many thousands of healthy and for the most part rare and saleable plants on video because of a TC licensor deciding to invoke a bizarre clause in a contract that he wrote himself when I trusted him and was green about tissue culture. We had no choice but to do as he demanded. That's life, live and learn, but we've moved on and do all our own TC now. There's a video being edited as I write called 'Nepenthes @ Borneo Exotics' which may show some of the dark sides of the business such as the painful destruction of plants for legal reasons, as well as the more enjoyable aspects. As the final paragraph to my little book here, I might add that at the end of a day working with the plants or in the office, I still get enormous pleasure at having a sunset beer in my favorite nursery surrounded by fabulous stock plants that mean the world to me. Guess maybe engineering would have paid far better but one never knows what's going to happen next around here! Rob Cantley Borneo Exotics (Pvt) Ltd www.borneoexotics.com ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Mon Jan 24 08:58:29 2005 Subject: [CP] Working in the CP field Hey Folks, A lot of people have been discussing the original question of how to make a living in CP. I think the concensus is that, unless you have the extraordinary perseverence of a Peter D'Amato, it is damned difficult to make a living in the exclusive retail of carnivorous plants. I think most people "making a living" on CP are probably doing it from a research perspective. This kind of work, involving either fieldwork or laboratory work, can of course be extremely rewarding. Funding is usually through academic channels. You can also work in conservation. In this case, with the exceptional cases like Phil Sheridan's contract work aside, you are likely to be working for government agencies or nonprofits. In such cases you would probably work with carnivorous plants only a small portion of your time---you'd be working on a lot of other sites as well. Working in conservation is not for everyone---it often consists of only an occasional successful moment that must sustain you through long depressing seasons. I heard one person describing modern conservation work as an exercise in "documenting the decline." Sigh. Later! Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Director of Conservation Programs The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: fleischi01 at gmx.de (Andreas Fleischmann) Date: Mon Jan 24 14:25:57 2005 Subject: [CP] D. meristocaulis germination Dear Ivan, did your seeds germinate in vitro or under regular sowing conditions? Because I noticed the first germinating seedling today, too, but curiously it was from the half of the seeds I did sow on pure peat under warmhouse conditions. I didn't notice any visible germination of my in vitro seed so far, which is usually about 2 weeks earlier than ex vitro. All the best, Andreas -- Sparen beginnt mit GMX DSL: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Mon Jan 24 14:30:49 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Cp living 9. Prepare yourself for that customer who is dissatisfied for shipping them too many plants. Who complains about that? They are crazy. Tre ################### From: h7n at talk21.com (Nigel Hurneyman) Date: Tue Jan 25 11:19:33 2005 Subject: [CP] How To Make A Living On CPS Take 49 identical Venus' Fly Traps and number them from 1-49. Note the numbers of the first 6 to catch prey and use them in your national/state lottery (adjust the numbers as appropriate if it isn't 6 from 49). If you don't scoop the jackpot, sell your story to the national press and sell the VFTs. Good luck, NigelH ___________________________________________________________ ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ################### From: Darwinsbackyard at webtv.net (Darwin Thomas) Date: Tue Jan 25 15:17:02 2005 Subject: [CP] CP Business Hi All, I have been growing cp's for fifteen years and started a business six years ago. Knowing of no others in my area selling plants, it was obvious I would make huge profits. At this time, I have made very little income. Have maxed out two credit cards and spent large amounts of my salary from my regular job building a small greenhouse and two cold frames. Also, I have given away several plants to botanical gardens and garden clubs. Still waiting to break even. Boy, I love growing and selling cp's. Darwin Thomas ################### From: john.wilden at hmce.gsi.gov.uk (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) Date: Tue Jan 25 23:34:38 2005 Subject: [CP] CPN received Barry, I received my CPN in the post yesterday. I've not had chance to have a full read but a few initial impressions; The description and photo's of the new Heliamphora (elongata? sorry but I don't have it with me at the moment) are really great! I must admit I was puzzled looking at what looked like a typical (if there is such a thing) South American tepui with what initially looked like Nepenthes pitchers! and... Call THAT a cultivars page! Where's the controversy? Where's the descriptions of 'might-be' cultivars? Where's the......(rants on in similar vein for hours) Regards John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ################### From: tvaughan at charter.net (Tim Vaughan) Date: Wed Jan 26 07:08:03 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Making a living in CPs Hey, Rob, you need to get lazier. It's one of my few natural advantages in business. I delegate to anyone who's willing! As to the 150-200,000 Peter is said to make in the article linked, I suspect that if he has a partner he's got another source of income to make things work out. Here in California people have no idea how expensive it is to run a business. I gross more than that with my landscaping business, but there's no way two families could earn a living on the profit I make. ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Wed Jan 26 09:56:09 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: D. meristocaulis Hi Andreas, I have only had 2 germinate so far. These were sowed on chopped long fiber sphagnum and incubated at warm temperature. I expect more to germinate and will write on this later. I wish you and everyone else getting seed good luck. This is an especially interesting species. Ivan >did your seeds germinate in vitro or under regular sowing conditions? Because I noticed the first germinating seedling today, too, but curiously it was from the half of the seeds I did sow on pure peat under warmhouse conditions. I didn't notice any visible germination of my in vitro seed so far, which is usually about 2 weeks earlier than ex vitro. All the best, Andreas ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: CALIFCARN at aol.com (CALIFCARN@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 26 13:04:53 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Coolie Wages ################### From: CALIFCARN at aol.com (CALIFCARN@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 26 13:09:14 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: It's the Economy.... ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Wed Jan 26 13:50:22 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Coolie Wages Yeah i must say thats a testament to the fact that if it can be done in the bay are it can be done anywhere. Really im surprised there isnt a mass exodus from there due to the cost of living. i know there is amongst alot of young people down here. thats why my girlfriend and i are saving up and moving to florida in may. --- CALIFCARN@aol.com wrote: > Howdy: At California Carnivores we have a few > employees but most of us have > only this one job. It helps when your house mortgage > is only $400 a month and > have no family to support. However, we would > certainly have a higher standard > of living if we lived, let's say, in Mississippi, > instead of the outrageously > expensive Bay Area of California. Seeya. Peter > D'Amato > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: tvaughan at charter.net (Tim Vaughan) Date: Wed Jan 26 14:05:05 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Coolie wages Hey, Peter Well, with a 400 dollar mortgage, that's different. But still, with employees that amount of money gets eaten up quick with workman's comp, general liability, etc..I got my contractor's license 18 years ago and have never had an injury, but even with Arnold's reforms, I still pay 20% in addition to everything else on wages. And I've had the same thoughts as you and Christopher lately. What happened here in California anyway? It's like they want us all to go to work for Walmart. Those who are running things seem to thing we small business types are a danger to the state. ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Wed Jan 26 14:29:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Coolie wages Tim, You small business guys are indeed a danger to the State and all that it stands for. Business owners in California (and the US) are expected to contribute a large portion of their income to political parties. It is called "pay to play". I seriously doubt that you are in the $100,000 club and probably did not get tickets to either Awnald's or Dubia's inaugural ball, or even to the cheap seats along the parade route. -Bob- Tim Vaughan wrote: > What happened here in California anyway? It's like they want us all > to go to work for Walmart. Those who are running things seem to thing > we small business types are a danger to the state. ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Wed Jan 26 14:31:49 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Coolie wages Dear Tim, Well, if it is a choice between working at Wal-Mart or growing and selling CP's, I think I would quit my day job :) Really, it does seem like Wal-Mart wants to eat up the market, towns are suing them to keep them out, other towns are giving them land to build super centers. Dave E -----Original Message----- Of Tim Vaughan Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 5:06 PM Hey, Peter Well, with a 400 dollar mortgage, that's different. But still, with employees that amount of money gets eaten up quick with workman's comp, general liability, etc..I got my contractor's license 18 years ago and have never had an injury, but even with Arnold's reforms, I still pay 20% in addition to everything else on wages. And I've had the same thoughts as you and Christopher lately. What happened here in California anyway? It's like they want us all to go to work for Wal-Mart. Those who are running things seem to thing we small business types are a danger to the state. Best Tim ################### From: Killerplants at aol.com (Killerplants@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 26 18:16:35 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: RE: D. meristocaulis Ivan, Andreas and All, Why do you suppose warmth is making such a difference. Maybe my brain is scrambled, but I thought it was a highland plant. Cheers, Joe Griffin Lincoln, NE USA ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Wed Jan 26 18:43:35 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: D. meristocaulis Dear Joe, During the day, the light warms things up. Many species of plant have seeds which need at least 75 F. (day temps) for best germination and seedling growth. Where the sunlight is 'falling' the soil surface can easily reach 85 F., or more. Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of Killerplants@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 9:16 PM Ivan, Andreas and All, Why do you suppose warmth is making such a difference? Maybe my brain is scrambled, but I thought it was a highland plant. Joe Griffin Lincoln, NE USA ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 26 23:39:45 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Coolie wages In a message dated 1/26/2005 2:05:31 PM Pacific Standard Time, tvaughan@charter.net writes: Well, with a 400 dollar mortgage, that's different. But still, with employees that amount of money gets eaten up quick with workman's comp, general liability, etc..I got my contractor's license 18 years ago and have never had an injury, but even with Arnold's reforms, I still pay 20% in addition to everything else on wages. -------------------- When I used to manage a restaurant in Illinois, they wanted the labor rate to be at 20%. I usually managed 16% (on a good day) to 18% (on a bad day). But I imagine spending 20% of your gross on labor must be a fairly typical scenario for a small business no matter where you are.... TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: stephenwd at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Davis) Date: Thu Jan 27 00:21:52 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Coolie Wages Sometimes I wonder why we don't all leave California too. But then I'm reminded why when I have to make tough choices like, do I go surfing with one of my buddies this weekend, or hit the slopes and ski with my family?..Hey, why not do both.? I've gone skiing on Saturday and SCUBA diving on Sunday. (Never do it the other way around though. There are rules even in paradise.) That's why I stay, plus family. Not to mention the perfect climate for growing CP. I can grow temperate and tropical plants with little effort. Stephen Davis stephenwd@sbcglobal.net www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com -----Original Message----- Of Christopher Hind Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 1:50 PM To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Yeah i must say thats a testament to the fact that if it can be done in the bay are it can be done anywhere. Really im surprised there isnt a mass exodus from there due to the cost of living. i know there is amongst alot of young people down here. thats why my girlfriend and i are saving up and moving to florida in may. --- CALIFCARN@aol.com wrote: > Howdy: At California Carnivores we have a few > employees but most of us have > only this one job. It helps when your house mortgage > is only $400 a month and > have no family to support. However, we would > certainly have a higher standard > of living if we lived, let's say, in Mississippi, > instead of the outrageously > expensive Bay Area of California. Seeya. Peter > D'Amato > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: stephenwd at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Davis) Date: Thu Jan 27 00:28:28 2005 Subject: [CP] Good VFT article Hey all, I found this article on the web on how the VFT works. http://www.livescience.com/othernews/050126_venus_flytrap.html Is any of this new? He seems pretty confident about this, which I find interesting as so many people have been working on this without a complete explanation.or is there one that we all agree on now? Stephen Davis stephenwd@sbcglobal.net www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Thu Jan 27 02:32:16 2005 Subject: [CP] D.meristocaulis seed germination pattern Hello to Ivan and all who are attempting to germinate D.meristocaulis!! I'd like to ask for all your help. In 1997 Conran et al published a cool paper entitled "Droseraceae germination patterns and their taxonomic significance". They showed that there is a lot of taxonomic information that can be obtained by observing the germination of Drosera seeds. Although Therefore, it would be extremely interesting to register the initial stages of D.meristocaulis germination. These are the characteristics to observe: 1.) Do cotyledons emerge from the seed testa? There are 3 types: -- Phanerocotylar - cotyledons emerge fully from the seed (known from D.burmannii, D.binata, D.hamiltonii, D.indica, most New World, African, & north temperate Drosera spp.) -- Hemicryptocotylar - cotyledons partially emerge from the seed and photosynthetic (only known from D.adelae among Drosera) -- Cryptocotylar - cotyledons remain largely enclosed withing seed (known from tuberous & pygmy Drosera, the petiolaris-complex, D.glanduligera, and I suspect D.meristocaulis too) 2.) Do the cotyledons have sessile glands? Numerous taxa from subgen Drosera are known to have them, but I'd guess D.meristocaulis doesn't. 3.) Are the first leaves reduced, non-carnivorous and generally prophyllar? This characteristic is known from erect tuberous species of sect.Ergaleium and is probably not the case of D.meristocaulis. 4.) Are all the leaves alternate or is the first pair (or initial pairs) opposite and the rest alternate? It is not clear in the paper which species have this character. On table 1 only one species from section Arachnopus (as well as Drosophyllum) is said to have opposite first leaves, but below this table on page 215 it is written: "First leaves were alternative in all taxa except Drosophyllum, and non-carnivorous first leaves confined to Aldrovanda and a few taxa within sect.Ergaleium." 5.) What was the minimum number of days to first germination? The longest times to germination were registered for tuberous & pygmy species and those of sect.Ptycnostygma (cistiflora, pauciflora, etc.), with mean values of 90-174 days (probably reflecting the summer dormancy habits of these taxa).Most of the remaining taxa varied from 10-40 days, which seems to be the case for D.meristocaulis. But please register, if possible, the number of days to first germination for D.meristocaulis and we'll average them out afterwards. Thanks! Fernando Rivadavia ################### From: tvaughan at charter.net (Tim Vaughan) Date: Thu Jan 27 04:29:50 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Coolie wages ################### From: hpulley at rogers.com (Harry Pulley) Date: Thu Jan 27 05:59:54 2005 Subject: [CP] VFT and Sarr flowers already -- bad? My plants live in a bay window with old leaky single-pane glass (so I get ice inside the windows here in Canada). This seemed to be good for giving my VFTs and Sarrs a rest with the flytrap slowing down and putting out stunted traps and the Sarrs leaves withering away (not completely but fairly well). But... we had a warm spell the other week (up to spring temps) and the house is heated so both the VFT and at least one Sarr (Scarlet Belle) have already started putting up flower stalks. I know the general VFT advice is to snip it and I did cut it this same time last year with good results (a nice healthy flytrap) so I'll snip it again but I wonder about the Sarr. I know that forced Sarrs in greenhouses are flowering around now (much further than mine as they'd have buds for Christmas presents) -- is January too early for Scarlet Belle? Should it be snipped too? I love the red flowers so I'd hate to snip it if it won't put more out in April. I can't see any on my purpurea yet. Harry -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/05 ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Thu Jan 27 09:06:52 2005 Subject: [CP] Good VFT article I believe this was originally published in August 2004 in http://fluid.ippt.gov.pl/ictam04/text/sessions/docs/MS2/11581/MS2_11581.pdf Two of the authors moved to Harvard, which apparently has a better public relations shop. -Bob- Stephen Davis wrote: > Hey all, > > I found this article on the web on how the VFT works. > > http://www.livescience.com/othernews/050126_venus_flytrap.html > > Is any of this new? He seems pretty confident about this, which I find > interesting as so many people have been working on this without a complete > explanation.or is there one that we all agree on now? > > Stephen Davis > > stephenwd@sbcglobal.net > > www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com ################### From: goffinses at yahoo.com (L.) Date: Thu Jan 27 09:08:09 2005 Subject: [CP] status of Tristan's CPs? Hello all, I am making a visit to the Big Island of Hawai'i in a couple weeks and recalled that Tristan's CPs was located there. I don't recall if the nursery is open to visits from the public, but I can't check because the website (www.tristanscps.com) is not operational. Does anyone know if the nursery is still open and/or if the website has changed, and how I might contact them? Feel free to contact me off-list, if so. Many thanks, Laurel Underhill, VT __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Thu Jan 27 09:40:33 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Coolie wages In a message dated 1/27/2005 4:30:48 AM Pacific Standard Time, tvaughan@charter.net writes: Hamir, you misunderstand. The 20 percent is an insurance premium you pay on the labor payroll, in addition to several others. ----------------- Ah, I thought you were talking about the actual dollars paid out in labor versus what was taken in. Yes, I've heard that Insurance and Workman's comp can be a real bugaboo in running a small business. Which is why I'm content working on my own and not expanding. TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: pthiel at ecfactory.net (Pete Thiel) Date: Thu Jan 27 09:54:14 2005 Subject: [CP] status of Tristan's CPs? The site being down was a result of a database server crash. It should be back up and available again. Cheers Pete -----Original Message----- Of L. Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 12:08 PM To: cp@omnisterra.com Hello all, I am making a visit to the Big Island of Hawai'i in a couple weeks and recalled that Tristan's CPs was located there. I don't recall if the nursery is open to visits from the public, but I can't check because the website (www.tristanscps.com) is not operational. Does anyone know if the nursery is still open and/or if the website has changed, and how I might contact them? Feel free to contact me off-list, if so. Many thanks, Laurel Underhill, VT __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Thu Jan 27 10:14:07 2005 Subject: [CP] status of Tristan's CPs? www.tristanscps.com does seem to be back up and working now. Pete Thiel wrote: > The site being down was a result of a database server crash. It should be > back up and available again. > > Cheers > Pete > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On Behalf > Of L. > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 12:08 PM > To: cp@omnisterra.com > Subject: [CP] status of Tristan's CPs? > > Hello all, > > I am making a visit to the Big Island of Hawai'i in a couple weeks and > recalled that Tristan's CPs > was located there. I don't recall if the nursery is open to visits from the > public, but I can't > check because the website (www.tristanscps.com) is not operational. Does > anyone know if the > nursery is still open and/or if the website has changed, and how I might > contact them? > > Feel free to contact me off-list, if so. > > Many thanks, > > Laurel > Underhill, VT ################### From: utricularia4242 at hotmail.com (Travis Wyman) Date: Thu Jan 27 10:34:21 2005 Subject: [CP] U. campbelliana and U. buntingiana Hello everyone, Hoping to get some help on a couple things here. First, I am searching for U. campbelliana. I have had little luck locating any U.S. growers but I hear tha it is circulating in Europe and Japan. If anyone has this plant or knows someone with this plant and is willing to make a trade or sale I would be interested in hearing from you. Second, I have heard a rumor that U. buntingiana has been located in Costa Rica. If anyone can confirm this and possibly provide me with the location I would be very greatful. I have professional contacts that have the permits necessary to collect in that country and they are interested in introducing this species to cultivation. Please reply off list Thanks for your time Travis Travis H. Wyman Microbiology & Molecular Genetics Emory University twyman@emory.edu ################### From: pcrane at petflytrap.com (Phillip Crane) Date: Thu Jan 27 12:52:10 2005 Subject: [CP] re: making a living in CPs Hi All, I've been watching the dialogue about making a living in CPs. I have to say we've been very fortunate and have done quite well with our business (petflytrap.com/junglesupply.com). It takes 3-5 people here to run the business depending on the season and we're all full time and love it! That being said, we've grown so much in different directions that we're considering selling off the CP portion of our business. Since it's profitable and stable --- we thought it'd be a good time to let someone else guide it! So it's doable... you have to have some marketing experience, passion for the plants and love to teach the newbies. And do it all with charm. :) -Phillip petflytrap.com ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Thu Jan 27 13:09:43 2005 Subject: [CP] D. capillaris x. brevifolia Does anyone know anything about this plant? Does anyone have pictures or a description? Please tell me if you do. I know that atleast 5 people in Japan have it but I am having problems contacting them and communicating. (Mainly becasue I cannot read japanese and neither can my computer). If you know where I can find anything about it please tell me. Tre Bond www.geocities.com/Treaqum1/index.html www.geocities.com/Treaqum/index.html ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Thu Jan 27 14:19:39 2005 Subject: [CP] D. capillaris x. brevifolia Dear Tre, I'll try to cross pollinate them when they flower in a month or so. Making seed is probably the easiest way to come by it. Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of Tre Bond Does anyone know anything about this plant? Does anyone have pictures or a description? Please tell me if you do. I know that at least 5 people in Japan have it but I am having problems contacting them and communicating. (Mainly because I cannot read Japanese and neither can my computer). If you know where I can find anything about it please tell me. Tre Bond ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Thu Jan 27 14:29:19 2005 Subject: [CP] re: making a living in CPs It basicly common sense. You need to know how nurseries do? They don't sell a lot of plants all the time. There are good days and bad,and so on. And not many people garden,nor have plants in there homes. But it helps to know what is popular and mainly bought,and educating people on the plants they plan on growing? You would also need to use sense of prices ,room,and supplies? So think first,and learn more about nurseries. Wolf ################### From: dinesh at ndbib.lanka.net (Dinesh Fernando) Date: Thu Jan 27 18:46:56 2005 Subject: [CP] CP nurseries / US markets I suspect the number of CPs sold in the States would have increased over these last few years. If nurseries in the States are struggling, that implies an increasing proportion of CPs are being imported to meet US demand. Does anyone have an idea which countries export CPs to the US, what type of CPs are exported, and who are the main suppliers? Has anyone done a study on the quantities and species / hybrids of CPs sold in the States? > > Peter here at California Carnivores. I really should mention that the > struggle of CP nurseries at least here in the States in the last few years has to do > with the economy's downturn since 911 and the Iraq war. Vintage Gardens, the > largest rose nursery in America on whose property we lease our facilities, has > sales down 70%, so it hardly has to do with carnivorous plants, per se. Seeya. > Peter > > > ------------------------------ ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Thu Jan 27 19:24:57 2005 Subject: [CP] CP nurseries / US markets > I suspect the number of CPs sold in the States would > have increased over > these last few years. If nurseries in the States > are struggling, that > implies an increasing proportion of CPs are being > imported to meet US > demand. Does anyone have an idea which countries > export CPs to the US, what > type of CPs are exported, and who are the main > suppliers? Has anyone done a > study on the quantities and species / hybrids of CPs > sold in the States? haha. DEMAND? what demand? You could perhaps create demand for them if you tried to get people into using sarracenia pitchers in the cut flower industry but as far as demand goes most people dont even know about carnivorous plants or only know about flytraps. I asked a ranger in florida where to find sundews to see in the wild and he looked at me totally lost and told me to spell it. There are a few nursery companies like booman floral that sells CP at home depot, target or trader joes all very rarely out here in california. it will be quite the event if walmart ever starts carrying them but most of the time the plants just end up dying and getting thrown out. what we need is to get the word out or perhaps get it in media, the more press the greater visibility, the more demand. ################### From: goffinses at yahoo.com (L.) Date: Thu Jan 27 21:13:29 2005 Subject: [CP] thanks re: Tristan's; ping article; archive search; California Thanks all for the help with Tristan's. I guess I just had the bad luck to hit the site at the wrong time. I forgot to say that when I was at the library the other day (I'm a grad student ... unfortunately) I came across an article on Pings in the British Isles. I don't normally pay attention to Ping info and so I'm not sure if it's been mentioned here, or if it has particularly interesting information. It's in the Journal of Ecology December 2004 issue, and as it so happens the content is free: a PDF is available here: http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi/10.1111/j.0022-0477.2004.00942.x/abs/ Speaking of which--is there a way to make the listserv archives searchable up till the present instead of back in 2003? I wasn't sure if the search form was just outdated, or whether there is a reason for the limitation. I used to live in (southern) CA. It is indeed crazy expensive. On the other hand, much of the area I'm from--eastern Massachusetts--is not much cheaper, and we (the Northeast) are freezing our asses off right now.... so it could be worse! Anyway, I would say that California overall is a lot more "quirky" than Florida. Whether that's worth paying extra for, depends on you, though! It's all trade-offs. I am trying to figure out a place that I would be at home in and where it would be easier to grow my beloved plants, and it's not easy. Cheers (at 7 degrees below zero right now), Laurel __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ################### From: stovehouse at earthlink.net (Michael Hunt) Date: Fri Jan 28 10:25:53 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 20, Issue 26 Message: 1 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <19702-41F6D360-3378@storefull-3137.bay.webtv.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Hi All, I have been growing cp's for fifteen years and started a business six years ago. Knowing of no others in my area selling plants, it was obvious I would make huge profits. At this time, I have made very little income. Have maxed out two credit cards and spent large amounts of my salary from my regular job building a small greenhouse and two cold frames. Also, I have given away several plants to botanical gardens and garden clubs. Still waiting to break even. Boy, I love growing and selling cp's. Darwin Thomas Hmmmm....... something Darwin says rings a bell. Mike St. Pete Florida ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (fe_riva) Date: Fri Jan 28 11:09:34 2005 Subject: [CP] D.meristocaulis seed germination!! Great news!!! Other than Ivan Snyder, another friend has reported success germinating D.meristocaulis in vitro! "I already had and am having plenty of germination of D.meristocaulis. Mine have started by growing a fine deep red , tap root.approximatly 1 week ago." Yep, sounds like a true pygmy Drosera! ;) Good luck to all, Fernando Rivadavia __________________________________________________________________________ Acabe com aquelas janelinhas que pulam na sua tela. AntiPop-up UOL - ? gr?tis! http://antipopup.uol.com.br/ ################### From: ddarnows at ius.edu (Darnowski, Douglas William) Date: Fri Jan 28 12:07:50 2005 Subject: [CP] Announcement of the Next ICPS Meeting The 2006 Meeting of the ICPS will be held at Frostburg State University in Frostburg, Maryland, from Friday June 2, 2006, to Sunday June 4, 2006 (participants can arrive Thursday June 1), with field trips on Monday June 5. Frostburg is several hours west of the Washington/Baltimore/Philadelphia area, and Frostburg University has a conference center experience d in hosting international conferences. Transportation to and from major international airports will be available, and there are several relevant for this meeting. Housing and meals will be available on the University campus as well as in hotels near the University, and space for vendors will be available very close to the sites for talks and posters. In addition to all of the usual activities, the committee is planning a workshop on botanical art and one on using cp?s to teach children about science. Several fieldtrips to the Middle Atlantic region of the USA are being planned for immediately after the conference. For updates on the web, please watch the ICPS homepage www.carnivorousplants.org for links to the conference website, which should be available during February 2005 for information, mid-2005 for registration and abstract submission. The organizing committee is co-chaired by Doug Darnowski of Indiana University Southeast and Hong-qi Li of Frostburg State University and also includes Terre Golembiewski of the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater and Steve Williams of Lebanon Valley College. ################### From: la_islita_de_encanta at yahoo.com (Christina Anderson) Date: Fri Jan 28 12:51:50 2005 Subject: [CP] Walmart There are a few nursery companies like booman floral that sells CP at home depot, target or trader joes all very rarely out here in california. it will be quite the event if walmart ever starts carrying them but most of the time the plants just end up dying and getting thrown out. what we need is to get the word out or perhaps get it in media, the more press the greater visibility, the more demand. Our local Walmart in a small town in northern Indiana has carried VTFs numerous times. They periodically will get a case of them enclosed in the small plastic-cup-greenhouses. The plants are of average quality and seem to sell well enough until they start drying out and curling up. I've never bought them as the Lowes plants seem to be slightly better and sometimes have a longer shelf life! At the checkout, I often catch people leering at my plants and visibly or audibly "what the heck is that!?" Sometimes I explain. Other times I just walk away mysteriously. Christina ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Fri Jan 28 13:24:48 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: inports Well imports are not considered a problem with me. Obviously Major Cp nursery would not like it but imports are the only way to find some hard to get plants. I think the major problem is too much same old same old. You can get VFTs, many Drosera, most Sarrs, and some Neps from most of or all of the Cp nurseries in the US. Who would make a killing is someone with rare plants for average prices. I cannot afford to pay or would I want to pay $20 or more for a Drosera of any species. Well some of the rare-er ones yes (newly discovered, re-discovered). I cannot speak for anyone else on this list but pricing is a mojor factor when I am going to buy something. I organized a group order to Triffid Park and think it has gone rather well so far. The only reason I did this was because I could buy a bunch of stuff (pings mostly) for about $5.50 each. So for $40 I could get more and certainly rare (In the US) pings for a lot cheeper then say P. esseriana or another "common" mexican ping. I do realise that space is hard pressed and so are wages but some of the Nurseries in the US might thinking of broadening a bit. I think California Carnivores is starting too. Cooks is an excellent example fo a broad nursery. He will sell you almost anything on his growlist which is quite huge (check it out at the CCPS forum). Many of the Nurseries in the US will also do that but they do not seem so open (for lack of a better word). My two cents Tre ################### From: voodoodancer at gmail.com (Mark) Date: Fri Jan 28 17:57:38 2005 Subject: [CP] everybody that signed the petitions,,, Thank you!! I just received this letter, and I want everybody that signed the petition against the landfill in NC to read it. Hi Mark, Was just looking at the petition site and find it's taking a jump, over 700 this week, and an amazing number of them refer to the carnivorous plants. Please pass our thanks along and thank you for getting the word out. We're building forces, have found that there are now 6 dump sites trying to locate in NC. It will only take four of them to make us the 4th greatest importer of trash in the nation, just got that from the NC Div of Solid Waste today. The fact that trash has become a statewide problem will help us, I think. We're working on a motorcade to the capital from all the sites to bring public attention to the problem. We're also working on a brochure and would like to have a listing of organizations supporting us in the brochure. Could you see about getting a letter of support from the International Society? I heard someone suggesting they do something else with the land instead of making it a dump, maybe make it a state park. I don't know where that will go, but the people who live next to the site have told me it used to be full of fly traps and pitcher plants. Of course, IP has seen that it's been well drained and sprayed; but left alone to detox, they might come back with a little help. Just a thought ~ Thanks again, Gean Please sign our Stop the Hugo Neu Landfill Petition at: www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/155621293 Gean M. Seay Swamp Watch Action Team 223 Benson Road NE Leland, NC 28451 Just a note "IP" stands for International Paper Well what more can I say? You guys stepped up when we needed you. When we stand together we can make a difference. I can't say thank you enough. Please pass this letter on to all the people that you forwarded the the petition to. Thank you. :) Paypal is nothing but hightech common thieves. Check out their customer feedback http://www.planetfeedback.com/sharedLettersList/0,2941,101112-70-0-0-20-0-fb_date-desc,00.html Don't become another paypal victim ################### From: Writerguy67 at aol.com (Writerguy67@aol.com) Date: Fri Jan 28 19:44:16 2005 Subject: [CP] 2006 ICPS It will be nice to have the ICPS meeting (almost) in my backyard! Although the CP locations in the immediate vicinity of Frostburg are few (to my knowledge anyway -- the best known is a glacial relic kettle bog, home to D. rotundifolia and (I've been told) some introduced S. purpurea), Washington, DC and Baltimore, MD are a few hours east. Several well-known CP nurseries aren't far (Botanique and Meadowview), and natural locales within a day's drive include the New Jersey Pine Barrens. Haven't been to a conference since 1997 in Atlanta. Looking forward to the next. Jay Lechtman Ashburn, Virginia, USA ################### From: gregharmison at houston.rr.com (Greg Harmison) Date: Sat Jan 29 09:44:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Walmart There is a tissue culture oufit out of Florida that sells CP's by the cell tray. Their site id www.agristarts3.com and while it is not on their website, thier old catalog offered 2 types of Heliamphoras as well. I'm not sure the public would be well served buying one of these from a mass marketer. I have been growing for about 24 years, and still can't seem to keep the darn things alive. The botanic garden I wirk for has ordered from them in the past (hybrid Sarracenias) and they seem to be of good quality. They are not making a living off these alone, but if you are willing to grow other than CP's as well, they could be a part of your product base. Greg H ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 2:51 PM > > > > There are a few nursery companies like booman floral > that sells CP at home depot, target or trader joes all > very rarely out here in california. it will be quite > the event if walmart ever starts carrying them but > most of the time the plants just end up dying and > getting thrown out. what we need is to get the word > out or perhaps get it in media, the more press the > greater visibility, the more demand. > > Our local Walmart in a small town in northern Indiana has carried VTFs > numerous times. They periodically will get a case of them enclosed in the > small plastic-cup-greenhouses. The plants are of average quality and seem > to sell well enough until they start drying out and curling up. I've > never bought them as the Lowes plants seem to be slightly better and > sometimes have a longer shelf life! > > At the checkout, I often catch people leering at my plants and visibly or > audibly "what the heck is that!?" Sometimes I explain. Other times I > just walk away mysteriously. > > Christina > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Sat Jan 29 10:17:56 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: D.meristocaulis seed germination pattern Hi Fernando, I am watching the seed closely. So far we can conclude that the seed does not require a cold stratification before germination can begin. 10-40 days is a good conservative range. I am familiar with Cryptocotylar germination as seen in D. glanduligera. What I see in D. meristocaulis is Phanerocotylar. I do not believe all pygmies are Cryptocotylar. My seedlings have not yet cast off their seed coat but will do so soon; more then. It is an interesting mystery as to where this species fits taxonomically. I like your idea that it is close to the Australian pygmy Drosera and possibly represents a branch of this group. Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sat Jan 29 13:50:30 2005 Subject: [CP] ICPS conference Yes I will hopefully be able to go. My first ever. I really hope my tickets to France are not during then ################### From: Darwinsbackyard at webtv.net (Darwin Thomas) Date: Sat Jan 29 14:36:24 2005 Subject: [CP] S. purpurea "chipola" Hi all I purchased a plant from Clyde Bramblett several years ago. It was labelled S. purpurea "chipola". It resembles S purpurea "montanae" but does not have the yellow coloring. Does any one know where this plant originated? It has grown well for me and has produced many large traps. Darwin Thomas ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Sat Jan 29 23:52:49 2005 Subject: [CP] highland tanks and difficult growing conditions - brainstorm i remember a number of years ago standing on that hillside in weed, ca staring at the darlingtonia, my first experience seeing CPs in the wild. i was observing the plants, being surrounded by mountains covered in pine forests, feeling the heat beating down on my back and watching ice cold water running through the roots and asking myself HOW THE HELL DO I RECREATE THESE CONDITIONS? i also remember getting a drosophyllum from ivan snyder years ago when i was living with my parents in redondo beach and finding the only way i could successfully grow it was to leave it in the windowsill with the window open at all times so it could absorb the constant fog coming from the ocean and realizing that that just wasnt an option for people attempting to grow it inland. has anyone actually had darlingtonia or drosophyllum THRIVE in captivity? What id like to see is a brainstorming session on how to get difficult plants to thrive in captivity. electricity bills be damned, figure out how to do it first and THEN try to save money by reducing the complexity. i also wonder if some of the expense couldnt be recovered by having fans connected to your house with its central AC unit blowing air through dryer hoses to enclosed tanks sitting in the sun outside with the air then recirculated back into the house. if you blow air fast enough it wont be given enough time to warm up but you could still use the sunlight. how can you create cold fog in a tank environment? it seems ALOT easier to create hot/wet or cold/dry conditions than it is to create hot/dry or cold/wet conditions unless you just happen to live in a place that supports that natively. i have heard of people growing darlingtonia on slanted tables with a pump that would pump water from a cold barrel below up to the top of the table which would then run down the slant that the plants were planted on. im really not sure how you would begin to grow drosophyllum in captivity if you didnt have access to ocean fog since it gets so much of its moisture from the fog directly. im sure as far as hot/dry conditions a tank recreating those conditions would be very handy to people such as cactus enthusiasts in south florida who watch their attempts at growing cacti rot from the heat and humidity. ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Sun Jan 30 03:38:15 2005 Subject: [CP] Conference 2006 Maryland So, the 2006 ICPS Conference will be in Maryland. So it's Maryland for a holiday next year, that's always my excuse to visit a part of the world that I haven't been to before. I better start saving the pennies. I've been to all the conferences except Japan, which was too expensive for me. Talking of conferences, does anyone know anything about the EEE this year ? They delayed it last year because the ICPS conference was held in Europe and it would clash with it. I think that it was the intention to hold it in the Czech Republic somewhere. Does anyone know of a website or other details ? Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: Cokendolpher at aol.com (Cokendolpher@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 30 10:35:46 2005 Subject: [CP] highland tanks and difficult growing conditions - brainstorm In a message dated 1/30/05 1:54:03 AM, cixcell@yahoo.com writes: > i have heard of people growing darlingtonia on slanted > tables with a pump that would pump water from a cold > barrel below up to the top of the table which would > then run down the slant that the plants were planted > on. > ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Sun Jan 30 11:09:51 2005 Subject: [CP] highland tanks and difficult growing conditions - brainstorm > I had a similar setup. I had a drum buried in the > ground of the greenhouse > and pumped cool water up to the darlingtonia and > then the water overflowed to > the drum. Worked good until the pump stopped one > day and all was lost. > Darlingtonia just cannot take hot baking sun without > the cool root water. My > advice, run at least two pumps in case one fails. > Might also be a good idea to > add a float switch with an alarm so power outages > can not cause a problem. what kind of pumps did you use. i was wondering about using a saltwater aquarium powerhead like a maxijet 1200 powerhead http://amekaaquatics.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/maxijet%201200.jpg with some tubes and maybe some sort of filter to prevent it from getting clogged. they could easily run on a computer battery backup as well so if they power failed it would keep pumping plus it doesnt use alot of power so itd last for a pretty nice sized outage. > For a dense fog, you will need commercial > hydrofogger and a greenhouse. You > will also need a good source of pure water and > either a timer or a humidistat. > Greenhouse supply stores have various models for > sale. ahh but how do you air condition the greenhouse AND fog at the same time? air conditioning extracts the water and it seems like youd be making your AC unit work twice as hard and perhaps could wear it out very quickly. pure water could easily come from an RO unit. ################### From: sander at ig.net (Sander de Haan) Date: Sun Jan 30 12:35:25 2005 Subject: [CP] highland tanks and difficult growing conditions - brainstorm Nice topic Christopher, I've been struggeling with this topic for a while as I like to grow highland nepenthes but I have no garden and no basement, instead I grow them right in my living room whih is always the same temperature and dry. I have however found a solution. Using a meat box used in restaurants (hope that is the right english name) and a peltier cell I can control the temperature and create the night time temperature drop. As I read the temperature and humidity to my linux server I can see stats of the climate and control it automaticly or from anywhere on the web, wich is nice when on vacation. As the hamata and rajah for example are growing well now I assume I must be doing it right :). I have not much experience with Darlingtonia but I know someone that placed them in full sun using a small porable freezer, the ones that run on 12 volt, to keep the earth cool at all times. Sander ################### From: jamesvicari at sbcglobal.net (James Vicari) Date: Sun Jan 30 12:36:33 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: highland tanks and difficult growing conditions - I have been experimenting with growing Darlingtonia under a dripping faucet, dripping tap water about 1 drop every two seconds. I've had it going since August and so far the two plants are growing very well. Each new pitcher has been larger than the one before; something I've never been able to accomplish. I've got a 55 watt compact fluorescent bulb I got from Home Depot directly above them. I'm in Dallas TX and the water is fairly hard. I don't know what the long term effect of that will be, but interestingly there hasn't been any salt build up on the sphagnum/perlite mix. Also the tap water gets warmer here in the summer and I don't know how the plants will do with a whole summer of warmer water. James Vicari ################### From: jim_miller at mindspring.com (Jim Miller) Date: Sun Jan 30 12:44:26 2005 Subject: [CP] Highland tanks and difficult growing conditions Hi Christopher, Here's the easiest way to do it. Build an indoor greenhouse in your garage or screen porch -- anywhere with protection from the hot sun). Install 4-5 fluorescent banks of growlux lamps (with some brighter cool whites added for light levels). Buy a cheap office refrigerator (they usually come with a fake oak grain on the front) and remove the door, then place it inside along with one or two cool mist humidifiers. That's all it takes. This can also be done much easier up north where people have basements (so you don't even need an enclosure). Bob Hanrahan used to kid me about my "cabbage-sized" Mexican Pings, though I also grew Darlingtonia and Nepenthes with ease in my basement in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Another option is to get an Orchidarium, which is a small growth chamber you can put in a corner of your living room or den -- any air conditioned space is fine. This is a great way to go, though Orchidariums are (unfortunately) not cheap. There are ways of growing some of the cool-loving plants in a standard greenhouse and if anyone is interested, contact me offline for details. Best regards, Jim ################### From: flaneps at hotmail.com (Michelle and Trent ) Date: Sun Jan 30 13:50:16 2005 Subject: [CP] S. purpurea "chipola" Hi Darwin, "chipola" is a town in the Florida panhandle. It is not montanae, it's a southern form of S. purpurea, whatever the current name is now. -Trent and Michelle Darwin Thomas wrote: Message: 2 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <29221-41FC0FDC-3891@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Hi all I purchased a plant from Clyde Bramblett several years ago. It was labelled S. purpurea "chipola". It resembles S purpurea "montanae" but does not have the yellow coloring. Does any one know where this plant originated? It has grown well for me and has produced many large traps. Darwin Thomas ################### From: meadow at bealenet.com (meadow@bealenet.com) Date: Sun Jan 30 13:57:55 2005 Subject: [CP] S. purpurea Chipola Hi Darwin: The plant you mention is from the Chipola River in Florida. Today we would call this S. rosea. The Chipola plants are somewhat unique and I believe Bruce Bednar gave them this moniker. Sincerely, Phil Sheridan Meadowview http://www.bealenet.com ################### From: Cokendolpher at aol.com (Cokendolpher@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 30 13:58:01 2005 Subject: [CP] highland tanks and difficult growing conditions - brainstorm In a message dated 1/30/05 1:10:32 PM, cixcell@yahoo.com writes: > what kind of pumps did you use. i was wondering about using a > saltwater aquarium powerhead like a maxijet 1200 powerhead with some > tubes and maybe some sort of filter to prevent it from getting > clogged. they could easily run on a computer battery backup as well > so if they power failed it would keep pumping plus it doesnt use alot > of power so itd last for a pretty nice sized outage. > > I do not recall the brand, but it was a mag drive pump like you would > use in a marine tank; remember though that you will need maybe 4-5 feet of lift to get water from the floor to the top of the growing area. Yes, I used a prefilter. The problem was that the pump just died. It happens. > > > ahh but how do you air condition the greenhouse AND fog at the same > time? air conditioning extracts the water and it seems like youd be > making your AC unit work twice as hard and perhaps could wear it out > very quickly. pure water could easily come from an RO unit. > > > Last summer, I did not even have to air condition the hot side of my greenhouse when running a fogger. The release of the fog cools the air rapidly. On the cool side of my greenhouse I use an evapoative cooler as well as a fogger. Yes, RO is good if you have a large enough unit. Foggers use a lot of water if the air is normally dry (like it is here in western Texas). ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Sun Jan 30 14:23:28 2005 Subject: [CP] highland tanks and difficult growing conditions - brainstorm > Last summer, I did not even have to air condition > the hot side of my > greenhouse when running a fogger. The release of > the fog cools the air rapidly. On > the cool side of my greenhouse I use an evapoative > cooler as well as a > fogger. Yes, RO is good if you have a large enough > unit. Foggers use a lot of > water if the air is normally dry (like it is here in > western Texas). im thinking in terms of a area of high humidity such as florida. im trying to relocate there at the moment and conditions outside in summer are hot and humid which is ideal for growing lowland stuff but not highland stuff. using a fogger in already sky high humidity would just result in rain in your greenhouse and wouldnt lead to any cooling i would imagine. evaporative coolers, swamp coolers right? ive heard they dont work in florida because they just make the air more humid. ################### From: Killerplants at aol.com (Killerplants@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 30 15:45:23 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: S. purpurea "chipola" Hi Darwin, I am going to assume that this is a form of S. purpurea venosa that comes from the Chipola River area of Florida. I am sure somebody else on the list serve knows for sure. I think Bruce Lee Bednar also has a S. leucophylla "Chipola." Cheers, Joe Griffin Lincoln, NE USA In a message dated 1/30/2005 2:02:34 P.M. Central Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: Hi all I purchased a plant from Clyde Bramblett several years ago. It was labelled S. purpurea "chipola". It resembles S purpurea "montanae" but does not have the yellow coloring. Does any one know where this plant originated? It has grown well for me and has produced many large traps. Darwin Thomas ################### From: didgerowe at gotalk.net.au (Didge) Date: Sun Jan 30 15:48:46 2005 Subject: [CP] Use of light emitting diodes There is a discussion underway in the following group about the use of light emitting diodes rather than light bulbs for supplying insolation. This is probably a very innovative idea for those who use artificial light sources. Didge. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Lithops/ A web page for the real living stones. ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sun Jan 30 16:55:00 2005 Subject: [CP] S.purpurea/Drosophyllum I have had Drosophyllum thrive in my conditions. Here in Florida I planted/germinated the seed in 10 inch pots and they have been growing fine ever since. I leave them on my screen poarch which is in full sun and they occasionally get insects. The pots are clay and I used Peter D'Amato's mixture. They get water frum rain and/or water once a week or maybe twice. I sed to water them everyday before they were 6 months old. Despite Peter's warning that they need cool nights I have only taken them in during Hurricanes and frosts. Where could I obtain a S. purpurea ssp/ venos var. montana? I had one but it dissappeared I am not sure where or how but during one of my moves it just vanished. Tre ################### From: pbunch at cox.net (Phil Bunch) Date: Sun Jan 30 18:12:31 2005 Subject: [CP] Use of light emitting diodes Hi Didge. I didn't know you were on this list. Phil -----Original Message----- Of Didge Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 3:46 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com There is a discussion underway in the following group about the use of light emitting diodes rather than light bulbs for supplying insolation. This is probably a very innovative idea for those who use artificial light sources. Didge. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Lithops/ A web page for the real living stones. _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 1/28/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 1/28/2005 ################### From: nepenthes at borneoexotics.com (Borneo Exotics (Pvt) Ltd) Date: Sun Jan 30 20:41:56 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Conference 2006 Maryland David, As far as I know it's to be held in the new and very impressively hi-tec Prague Botanic Gardens. ################### From: fleischi01 at gmx.de (Andreas Fleischmann) Date: Mon Jan 31 07:07:31 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: D.meristocaulis seed germination pattern Hi Fernando and all! I can confirm Ivan's notice that the germination pattern of D.meristocaulis is phanerocotylar! Moreover, Ivan, you are right that not all pygmies seem to hide their cotyledons in the testa. I noticed this way of germination in D.occidentalis, D.microscapa and relatives, but the D.pulchella I did germinate from seed once had clearly visible, non-carnivorous cotyledons (i.e. phanerocotylar germination!). All the best, Andreas -- 10 GB Mailbox, 100 FreeSMS http://www.gmx.net/de/go/topmail +++ GMX - die erste Adresse für Mail, Message, More +++ ################### From: villosa at insightbb.com (Patrick O'Brien) Date: Mon Jan 31 07:10:51 2005 Subject: [CP] highland tanks, etc. ################### From: ken.skau at uc.edu (Ken Skau) Date: Mon Jan 31 07:50:40 2005 Subject: [CP] Radio Program The US radio program "Morning Edition" carried a feature during a recent morning programming about how Venus' Flytraps close. You can hear the broadcast by going to: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4467935 Kind Regards, Ken Skau ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Mon Jan 31 09:53:07 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: more D.meristocaulis seed germination pattern Hi Fernando and all, I don't know if all Australian pygmy Drosera display cryptocotylar germination. But I do know that no sundew of the Americas do. Imagine if D. meristocaulis was cryptocotylar along with all its other pygmy Drosera characteristics. This is a special day. Congratulations again Fernando! Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Mon Jan 31 09:53:56 2005 Subject: [CP] Leaf Pullings Hey Folks, When you get your December issue of CPN and read the article I wrote on Sarracenia "leaf pullings", please contact me if you already knew of this practice and have done it yourself. I'm curious. Please note that the method involves pulling off a leaf, and not using some sort of sharp implement to remove the leaf with a chunk of rhizome attached. Cheers Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: corusc8 at hotmail.com (Joseph Kinyon) Date: Mon Jan 31 10:55:13 2005 Subject: [CP] Wilmington Hi folks, [Joseph Kinyon] After flying in from the San Francisco, CA area, I will be traveling by car from Raleigh, NC to Myrtle Beach, SC for a GIS meeting. My trip will take me through Wilmington and was excited at the opportunity to make a stop. I have never been to this area and was hoping to learn 2 things: 1. Recommendations for seeing Venus Flytraps in the wild. 2. Places to stay in Wilmington for the budget minded. Thanks! Joe ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Mon Jan 31 12:09:12 2005 Subject: [CP] Leaf Pullings HI Barry, I was curious to know why you hadn't noticed this very same method pictured in CPN a few years back. I believe it was the De Groot Nursery in Holland article where there was a photo of a huge flat of S.psittacina which had been propagated from leaf cuttings. I think it's one of the issues with the blue on top? Matt Message: 17 To: Message-ID: <200501311753.j0VHrk9w024966@warsaw.ucdavis.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hey Folks, When you get your December issue of CPN and read the article I wrote on Sarracenia "leaf pullings", please contact me if you already knew of this practice and have done it yourself. I'm curious. Please note that the method involves pulling off a leaf, and not using some sort of sharp implement to remove the leaf with a chunk of rhizome attached. Cheers Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ################### From: CALIFCARN at aol.com (CALIFCARN@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 31 13:35:15 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cooling Highland Tanks ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Mon Jan 31 13:52:49 2005 Subject: [CP] VFT trap closing Peter, The original article on the VFT trap closing can be found at http://fluid.ippt.gov.pl/ictam04/text/sessions/docs/MS2/11581/MS2_11581.pdf CALIFCARN@aol.com wrote: > A few days ago there was an article about the Nature (or was it > Science?) piece on the closure of the flytrap on Yahoo, but I'm not > sure it's still there. I haven't read the original piece but I'm sure > Jan will review it for CPN. From the synopsis of the Yahoo article, > it didn't seem to offer much new, but perhaps the actual paper gets > into the ...shall we say, meat of things. Seeya. Peter D'Amato at > California Carnivores ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Mon Jan 31 16:16:12 2005 Subject: [CP] Wilmington, Highlands in Fl Wilmington is great. You have to go to Carolina Beach State Park. True they do somewhat manicure some Sarracenias but not all or them. They have every Cp in Carolina there. Google it for directions. Do not try to be an idiot and take stuff. Every other person there is a park Ranger or law enforcement person. Just FYI and so I will not get heated messages. Highlands in Florida are easy. Well North East Florida any way. I have heard and grown them in Fort Myers for a few months also. They grow great out under the trees. In half shade. Thats what I do now. Pitchers will come in cycles during cooler spells so not all months will you have pitcher laden plants. Intermediates do well outside also. I have to put lowlants in y "big terrarium" so they will grow with enough humidity and pitcher (Bical.) Tre ################### From: Junglejimie at aol.com (Junglejimie@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 31 21:43:53 2005 Subject: [CP] cp viewing ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 31 22:59:31 2005 Subject: [CP] Good VFT article In a message dated 1/27/2005 12:28:43 AM Pacific Standard Time, stephenwd@sbcglobal.net writes: I found this article on the web on how the VFT works. http://www.livescience.com/othernews/050126_venus_flytrap.html Is any of this new? He seems pretty confident about this, which I find interesting as so many people have been working on this without a complete explanation.or is there one that we all agree on now? Well, it seems a variation on the theme of changing osmotic pressures (cells on the outside of the leaf intake water, making them larger, cells on the inside lose water, making them shrink) that I seem to recall reading about many, many years ago. So something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue. TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: ccp at vaxxine.com (ccp@vaxxine.com) Date: Tue Feb 1 06:58:01 2005 Subject: [CP] Wilmington Joseph, Wilmington is one of my favorite places to visit! Unfortunately, you won't see much in terms of CP this time of year. VFT's won't start waking up until March. I saw them in mid march and they were just starting to put out their spring traps. There are a bunch of places to stay in Wilmington, I've stayed in the Motel 6 and Best Western on Market Street. Both are bookable online and reasonably priced. There are a few publicly accessible places, one is the green swamp on hwy 211. Another is the Carolina Beach State Park. Send me a PM and I can give you specific directions. Carl > Hi folks, > [Joseph Kinyon] > After flying in from the San Francisco, CA area, I will be traveling by car > from Raleigh, NC to Myrtle Beach, SC for a GIS meeting. > > My trip will take me through Wilmington and was excited at the opportunity > to make a stop. > > I have never been to this area and was hoping to learn 2 things: > > 1. Recommendations for seeing Venus Flytraps in the wild. > 2. Places to stay in Wilmington for the budget minded. > > Thanks! > > Joe > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ------[ This message was sent using Vaxxine Webmail ]------ www.vaxxine.com - Niagara's Premier Internet Service Provider ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Tue Feb 1 09:42:37 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: D.meristocaulis seed germination pattern Hi Andreas, That's great you've got seedlings sprouting too. We can both study this together. I am sure I was fooled by the first seedling. The first seedling to sprout started out with the seed standing on end and so as it sprouted it looked as if it were trying to cast off the seed coat and so phanerocotylar. I have four up now and these are developing more normally and clearly cryptocotylar. You should see the same soon. Cheers, Ivan ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Tue Feb 1 12:43:24 2005 Subject: [CP] Leaf pullings Hi Matt, I'll look this old CPN up. This was long before Jan and I assumed editorship---I vaguely recall hearing that CPN ran an article a long time ago about a facility that mass-produced CP, and only afterwards it was discovered (much to the disgust of all) that the facility was only acting as a front for field collected plants. I don't recall if this is the one. But you know, even if the dutch were doing this, I'm still impressed that you ask most modern growers about using leaves to propagate Sarracenia, and they'll say it can't be done. However, there are some growers out there who DO know about this method. It's funny that it's just not better known. I'm glad I have a set of quotes around the "New" in my article's title. Cheers Barry > HI Barry, > I was curious to know why you hadn't noticed this very same > method pictured in CPN a few years back. > I believe it was the De Groot Nursery in Holland article > where there was a photo of a huge flat of S.psittacina which > had been propagated from leaf cuttings. I think it's one of > the issues with the blue on top? > Matt ################### From: ken.skau at uc.edu (Ken Skau) Date: Tue Feb 1 14:04:09 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: CP viewing Junglejim wrote: Can anyone tell me where I might see a large display of carnivorous plants in my area, ie. within say a couple of hundred miles of Toledo Ohio. Thanks Jim A couple of hundred miles south in Cincinnati (tropical Ohio) the Krohn Conservatory has recently expanded its collection of carnivorous plants. I'm not sure if you would call it "large" but it is growing. I think that it is approaching the size of the Missouri Botanical Gardens display. While in Cincinnati you could also visit the Lloyd Library and Museum which is a non-circulating collection of books devoted to botany, pharmacy and horticulture. It contains many books on carnivorous plants by such noted authors as Charles E. Nelson, B. E. Juniper, Adrian Slack, Francis Lloyd, Gordon Cheers, John Waters, Marcel Lecoufle, and the especially beautiful "Illustrations of North American Pitcher Plants" by Mary Vaux Wolcott. Kind Regards, Ken Skau ################### From: o.marthaler at bluewin.ch (o.marthaler@bluewin.ch) Date: Tue Feb 1 14:56:01 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 1 Hi, Here Olivier in Switzerland, Sorry to let you know I still haven't received the Dec. 04 issue of the CPN... Should I get worried or just wait some more time? Anybody in Europe in my case ? Thanks already for answering. Greetings from CH, OL ################### From: slawarre at meijergardens.org (Steve LaWarre) Date: Wed Feb 2 08:26:55 2005 Subject: [CP] Leaf pullings The article that I assume Matt is talking about is in CPN volume 15, Number 1 (March 1986) The article was "Carnivorous Plant Culture in Holland" by Larry Mellichamp. This article does mention s. psittacina being propagated by leaf cuttings, but only with a piece of rhizome attached. "...they are easy to root (s. psittacina) from leaf cuttings if a piece of the rhizome (stem) is attached. Sarracenia psittacina is the easiest to root from cuttings in this way, but others work too." I think Barry's article is a lot more detailed and deals with leaf cuttings without pieces of rhizome. Steve -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 3:43 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Hi Matt, I'll look this old CPN up. This was long before Jan and I assumed editorship---I vaguely recall hearing that CPN ran an article a long time ago about a facility that mass-produced CP, and only afterwards it was discovered (much to the disgust of all) that the facility was only acting as a front for field collected plants. I don't recall if this is the one. But you know, even if the dutch were doing this, I'm still impressed that you ask most modern growers about using leaves to propagate Sarracenia, and they'll say it can't be done. However, there are some growers out there who DO know about this method. It's funny that it's just not better known. I'm glad I have a set of quotes around the "New" in my article's title. Cheers Barry > HI Barry, > I was curious to know why you hadn't noticed this very same > method pictured in CPN a few years back. > I believe it was the De Groot Nursery in Holland article > where there was a photo of a huge flat of S.psittacina which > had been propagated from leaf cuttings. I think it's one of > the issues with the blue on top? > Matt _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: gregharmison at houston.rr.com (Greg Harmison) Date: Wed Feb 2 16:06:13 2005 Subject: [CP] Leaf pullings "The World of Carnivorous Plants" by the Pietropaolo's (1974) makes a brief reference to leaf propagation of Sarracenia. It does not go into detail, more of a passing mention. "In addition to reproduction via the rhizome, Pitcher Plants may be reproduced from their leaves. To effect this, the leaves should be carefully removed from the rhizomes and placed in damp sphagnum or peat moss." Needless to say, Barry's article has much better detail. Greg H. ----- Original Message ----- To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 10:26 AM The article that I assume Matt is talking about is in CPN volume 15, Number 1 (March 1986) The article was "Carnivorous Plant Culture in Holland" by Larry Mellichamp. This article does mention s. psittacina being propagated by leaf cuttings, but only with a piece of rhizome attached. "...they are easy to root (s. psittacina) from leaf cuttings if a piece of the rhizome (stem) is attached. Sarracenia psittacina is the easiest to root from cuttings in this way, but others work too." I think Barry's article is a lot more detailed and deals with leaf cuttings without pieces of rhizome. Steve -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 3:43 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Hi Matt, I'll look this old CPN up. This was long before Jan and I assumed editorship---I vaguely recall hearing that CPN ran an article a long time ago about a facility that mass-produced CP, and only afterwards it was discovered (much to the disgust of all) that the facility was only acting as a front for field collected plants. I don't recall if this is the one. But you know, even if the dutch were doing this, I'm still impressed that you ask most modern growers about using leaves to propagate Sarracenia, and they'll say it can't be done. However, there are some growers out there who DO know about this method. It's funny that it's just not better known. I'm glad I have a set of quotes around the "New" in my article's title. Cheers Barry > HI Barry, > I was curious to know why you hadn't noticed this very same > method pictured in CPN a few years back. > I believe it was the De Groot Nursery in Holland article > where there was a photo of a huge flat of S.psittacina which > had been propagated from leaf cuttings. I think it's one of > the issues with the blue on top? > Matt _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: Cokendolpher at aol.com (Cokendolpher@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 16:13:33 2005 Subject: [CP] Leaf pullings In a message dated 2/2/05 6:07:27 PM, gregharmison@houston.rr.com writes: ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Wed Feb 2 17:59:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Leaf pullings=stem-leaf cuttings Dear Barry, I have tried the "leaf cutting" method several times, but never had anything but roots develop. I think the key here is that these are not "leaf cuttings" that this article is describing, (which do not work!), but are more accurately referred to as "stem-leaf cuttings" which are a different beast all together. They might not seem very different at first glance, but to say both techniques are both "leaf cuttings" would be like saying skin grafts and bone grafts are about the same--which just isn't accurate. The stems of _S. purpurea, S. psittacina_ and _S. rosea_ are different from the other species' stems. They are thinner much less woody, especially so in _S. psittacina_, which happens to be the easiest for this method. The way the plant is built makes it easy to make "stem-leaf cuttings", without using a knife. I suspect you will probably get plants faster if you can pull off a couple of leaves and keep them attached to each other as one cutting. This method ("stem-leaf cutting") also works on petiolaris sundews very well, whereas most "leaf cuttings" do not strike regardless of your technique. However, pulling the leaves will not work on these guys, as the plants are built differently. Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of Barry Rice Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 3:43 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Hi Matt, I'll look this old CPN up. This was long before Jan and I assumed editorship---I vaguely recall hearing that CPN ran an article a long time ago about a facility that mass-produced CP, and only afterwards it was discovered (much to the disgust of all) that the facility was only acting as a front for field collected plants. I don't recall if this is the one. But you know, even if the Dutch were doing this, I'm still impressed that you ask most modern growers about using leaves to propagate Sarracenia, and they'll say it can't be done. However, there are some growers out there who DO know about this method. It's funny that it's just not better known. I'm glad I have a set of quotes around the "New" in my article's title. Cheers Barry ################### From: peteluba at prodigy.net (Glenn Petersen) Date: Thu Feb 3 08:36:22 2005 Subject: [CP] CP collections to visit Jim, I'm not sure about the distance but there two spots here in Michigan you could vivist. One is Mathei Botanical Gardens in Ann Arbor, MI. They have a couple of large neps and a small bog with some sundes, flytraps and Sarracenis. I saved the best for last. Meijer Gadens in Grand Rapids, MI. They have a great display of Neps, dews, .... They also have very nice indoor and outdoor gardens as well. It is a very well maintained display with beautiful plants. Some of the Neps are huge. Great place to visit. While in Michigan you could visit some native bogs with real live wild plants. I believe there is a bog with a boardwalk near there but I have not visited it yet. If you google bogs in MI you should get some hits for parks that have them. Enjoy your travels. ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Thu Feb 3 09:02:56 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Leaf pullings Hi Matt, I looked up the article, and as Steve L pointed out, this article cites that the Sarracenia psittacina propagation was being done by using a small piece of the rhizome attached. This is an intrusive method that is quite different from what I talked about in my article. As you said, in your own inimitable idiom, I'm "curious to know why you hadn't noticed this"? (You crack me up!) Barry > > > HI Barry, > > I was curious to know why you hadn't noticed this very same method > > pictured in CPN a few years back. > > I believe it was the De Groot Nursery in Holland article > where there > > was a photo of a huge flat of S.psittacina which had been > propagated > > from leaf cuttings. I think it's one of the issues with > the blue on > > top? > > Matt Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Thu Feb 3 12:19:09 2005 Subject: [CP] Leaf pullings making roots only Hi Dave! Only getting roots? I've found that if I get roots, leaf formation is inevitable. However, the "inevitable" part is only if the plants are kept warm and in baggies. Presumably the 100% humidity sustains the leaves with minimal stress. Meanwhile, if I do the leaf pullings in a humid (but not 100% humidity) terrarium, I've gotten much lower success---roots, but no leaf formation. Is this what is happening with you? Perhaps a baggie protocol might help? Concerning your theory that the leaf pullings are most effective for S. psittacina and S. purpurea because of some thinner epidermis, perhaps the leaf pulling method would work for other species more readily if juvenile plants are used? I'm sorry to say that I can't quite figure out what you're saying about the "leaf cutting" vs. "stem-leaf cutting" stuff. Could you clarify? Which papers are proponents for which techniques? Sorry about my opacity on this. Barry > > I have tried the "leaf cutting" method several times, > but never had > anything but roots develop. I think the key here is that > these are not > "leaf cuttings" that this article is describing, (which do > not work!), but > are more accurately referred to as "stem-leaf cuttings" which are a > different beast all together. They might not seem very > different at first > glance, but to say both techniques are both "leaf cuttings" > would be like > saying skin grafts and bone grafts are about the same--which > just isn't > accurate. > The stems of _S. purpurea, S. psittacina_ and _S. rosea_ are > different from the other species' stems. They are thinner > much less woody, > especially so in _S. psittacina_, which happens to be the > easiest for this > method. The way the plant is built makes it easy to make "stem-leaf > cuttings", without using a knife. I suspect you will > probably get plants > faster if you can pull off a couple of leaves and keep them > attached to each > other as one cutting. ################### From: o.marthaler at bluewin.ch (o.marthaler@bluewin.ch) Date: Thu Feb 3 13:31:04 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 2 Hello, What a coincidence: just a few hours after sending my "worried email", the CPN of December '04 was in my mailbox! As always, very appealing indeed. Congrats on my pal Joe, once again on his tepuis! Looking forward to having more time to read the rest of this issue! And thanks you all who manage to write, publish and broadcast the interest for CP's via ICPS and its journal! I'll mention its existence to the audience who will attend my two lectures on CP's this spring! Greetings from snowy CH, Olivier >------------------------------ > > >Hi, > >Here Olivier in Switzerland, > >Sorry to let you know I still haven't received the Dec. 04 issue of the CPN... >Should I get worried or just wait some more time? Anybody in Europe in my >case ? > >Thanks already for answering. > >Greetings from CH, > >OL > ################### From: o.marthaler at bluewin.ch (o.marthaler@bluewin.ch) Date: Thu Feb 3 13:41:55 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 3 Hi everybody, Have you ever seen drosera regia seeds germinating on humid peat during stratification, with temps ranging between 2?C and 10?C ? Top quality from Doug & Vivi Rowland anyway! OL ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Thu Feb 3 16:38:18 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: more D.meristocaulis seed germination pattern Hello to all again! Congrats to Andreas Fleischmann, we now have 3 people who've germinated D.meristocaulis seed in cultivation!!! Apparently all three have been successful due to warmer conditions. As Dave Evans said, although D.meristocaulis is a highland plant, the soil often gets very hot during the day in these habitats. So it is not surprising that it would like warmth as opposed to cold. I would be very surprised if D.meristocaulis needed a cold stratification -- whereas a dry stratification would make much more sense! Andreas wrote: "I can confirm Ivan's notice that the germination pattern of D.meristocaulis is phanerocotylar! Moreover, Ivan, you are right that not all pygmies seem to hide their cotyledons in the testa. I noticed this way of germination in D.occidentalis, D.microscapa and relatives, but the D.pulchella I did germinate from seed once had clearly visible, non-carnivorous cotyledons (i.e. phanerocotylar germination!)." But then Ivan wrote: "That's great you've got seedlings sprouting too. We can both study this together. I am sure I was fooled by the first seedling. The first seedling to sprout started out with the seed standing on end and so as it sprouted it looked as if it were trying to cast off the seed coat and so phanerocotylar. I have four up now and these are developing more normally and clearly cryptocotylar. You should see the same soon." As for Darren (the 3rd guy who germinate them), he wrote: "Seed was initiated on 28-12-04 invitro. So far only about 20% germination. one plant is already producing its 2nd-3rd true leaf now. seedlings are very small and dont look like they have any cotyledons, and all parts are very red." So we seem to have a disagreement on whether D.meristocaulis is crypto or phanerocotylar... or both!! Could any of you take pictures of the seeds for all of us to see??? Keep the news coming guys! Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia Sao Paulo, Brazil ################### From: stovehouse at earthlink.net (Michael Hunt) Date: Thu Feb 3 17:04:54 2005 Subject: [CP] Leaf pullings ROFLMAO.... "leaf pullings" ........good one is that like "toaster leavings" the main diet of Al Bundy???? To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" Message-ID: <001601c50984$23b82190$6501a8c0@toshibauser> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original "The World of Carnivorous Plants" by the Pietropaolo's (1974) makes a brief reference to leaf propagation of Sarracenia. It does not go into detail, more of a passing mention. "In addition to reproduction via the rhizome, Pitcher Plants may be reproduced from their leaves. To effect this, the leaves should be carefully removed from the rhizomes and placed in damp sphagnum or peat moss." ################### From: Flshntrsh3 at aol.com (Flshntrsh3@aol.com) Date: Thu Feb 3 19:21:19 2005 Subject: [CP] New question ################### From: stephenwd at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Davis) Date: Thu Feb 3 22:21:55 2005 Subject: [CP] New question It seems like a huge proportion of them can. Of the ones I grow, I've only failed with D. glabribes, which is a big bummer as I can't find any more seeds now that I've sold, given away, or killed all of mine! Stephen Davis stephenwd@sbcglobal.net www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com -----Original Message----- Of Flshntrsh3@aol.com Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 7:21 PM To: Cp-request@omnisterra.com; Cp@omnisterra.com what species of drosera can be reproduced by leaf cuttings? _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: slawarre at meijergardens.org (Steve LaWarre) Date: Fri Feb 4 06:52:56 2005 Subject: [CP] CP collections to visit Thanks for the kind words Glenn! Jim, if you do decide to visit Frederik Meijer Gardens, please call or email me before you come. I always enjoy showing fellow CPers the collections in our production areas. I could also give you directions to that boardwalk Glenn mentions below, it is well worth a visit if you are in this area. Steve Steven R LaWarre Manager of Indoor Horticulture Frederik Meijer Gardens & Sculpture Park 1000 E Beltline NE Grand Rapids MI 49525 (616)975-3175 -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 11:36 AM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Jim, I'm not sure about the distance but there two spots here in Michigan you could vivist. One is Mathei Botanical Gardens in Ann Arbor, MI. They have a couple of large neps and a small bog with some sundes, flytraps and Sarracenis. I saved the best for last. Meijer Gadens in Grand Rapids, MI. They have a great display of Neps, dews, .... They also have very nice indoor and outdoor gardens as well. It is a very well maintained display with beautiful plants. Some of the Neps are huge. Great place to visit. While in Michigan you could visit some native bogs with real live wild plants. I believe there is a bog with a boardwalk near there but I have not visited it yet. If you google bogs in MI you should get some hits for parks that have them. Enjoy your travels. Glenn _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: CANDILUBBEN at peoplepc.com (chris lubben) Date: Fri Feb 4 11:03:05 2005 Subject: [CP] New Guy Greetings all, it looks like I will have plenty of archives to go through to catch up. Got started in CP's a few years ago with the Savage Garden and then joined the ICPS in 2001. Have Orn. Hort. degree from U of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. Lot's of fun in hort but can't pay all the bills so now it is just for hobby. Recently came across this group while researching TC info and couldn't resist. I'd like to start my own TC lab on the small side and I'm sure CP's would have their own corner just like in my basement now. Live in East central Illinois so winters are awfully hard on my CP's in fact I had to start over last year. Always fun and games. ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Fri Feb 4 11:47:47 2005 Subject: [CP] New Guy In a message dated 2/4/2005 11:04:27 AM Pacific Standard Time, CANDILUBBEN@peoplepc.com writes: Greetings all, it looks like I will have plenty of archives to go through to catch up. Got started in CP's a few years ago with the Savage Garden and then joined the ICPS in 2001. Have Orn. Hort. degree from U of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. Lot's of fun in hort but can't pay all the bills so now it is just for hobby. Recently came across this group while researching TC info and couldn't resist. I'd like to start my own TC lab on the small side and I'm sure CP's would have their own corner just like in my basement now. Live in East central Illinois so winters are awfully hard on my CP's in fact I had to start over last year. Always fun and games. Ah, yes, I remember well my days at the U of I. Trying to maintain a CP collection amidst the many house changes that a student is apt to go through proved quite the challenge. I also had a devil of a time trying to overwinter my CPs outside in that climate. Lost many a Sarracenia and VFT in that fashion. The Drosera usually made it through via seeds. Knew better than to try and keep any of my few Nepenthes outdoors. TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Fri Feb 4 13:07:53 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: more D.meristocaulis seed germination pattern Congratulations to Belinda from Sydney, Australia!!! Belinda writes: >It Seems as if my Meristocaulis seeds have also germinated . >I used a double greenhouse type of setup and with Sydney Australia's wild recent weather may have triggered germination ( red hot then cold etc). >The seeds were sown on the 17/1/05 and definite germination i noticed today 4/2/05. >They appear to be Phanerocotylar in my opinion . >Fingers crossed they continue to develop . She's now the 4th person to germinate D.meristocaulis!!! And fast too, only 18 days!! So far Australia leads the race! Australia 2, rest of the world 2!! :):) >My seeds where sown on a potting medium of 1 part coarsesand , 2 parts spaghnam peat and 1 part coarse perlite . >The pot was then placed in a water tray abt 1inch deep on second shelf of small portable green house with a second water tray directly beneath on >bottom shelf .i also used the top of a 1.5lt coke bottle on pot itself to create extra humidity.The green house gets abt 70% indirect sun all day . >I think the rapid wheather changes in Sydney recently could have been the key to germination. Sounds like she may have hit on an interesting tip for quick germination too... Best of luck, Fernando Rivadavia P.S. Hope to be able to add more people to this list when I return from the Carnaval holliday next Thursday! ;) I might even see a few CPs at the beach... ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Fri Feb 4 13:28:31 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: more D.meristocaulis seed germination pattern Perhaps that is because it is summer in Australia, or perhaps it is because Australia is upside down. :-) (-: Fernando Rivadavia wrote: > Congratulations to Belinda from Sydney, Australia!!! > > She's now the 4th person to germinate D.meristocaulis!!! And fast too, only > 18 days!! So far Australia leads the race! Australia 2, rest of the world > 2!! :):) ################### From: AppleCakeTeaRoom at aol.com (AppleCakeTeaRoom@aol.com) Date: Fri Feb 4 21:55:37 2005 Subject: [CP] North Texas Graduate Symposium Just wanted to let everyone know tomorrow my research partner and I will be presenting our research on the microscopic structures of carnivorous plant traps, especially D. muscipula, as well as work on various CP seeds. Scanning Electron Microscope pictures are the basis to studying the structures. It will be at the University of North Texas in Denton, Texas for the Graduate research day. Posters will be up for display from 9am-5pm, with poster presentations through out the day. The interesting thing is, my research partner is also my sister! :D We'll let you know how things go. ################### From: ThomBroGar at aol.com (ThomBroGar@aol.com) Date: Sat Feb 5 05:08:53 2005 Subject: [CP] Leaf 'cuttings' vs leaf /stem 'cuttings' Barry, Could the difference in these two methods not also be the fact that with a leaf/stem cutting you are getting a piece of the outer rhizome layer that has a dormant bud? Is it not true for Sarracenias like many other plants that at the base if each leaf axis there is a dormant bud. I believe this is the theory when a rhizome cutting is taken. Nature has build these 'back up' buds in case the terminal bud is damaged and by removing the terminal bud and removing apical dominance the signal goes out for the lateral buds to start growing. Just a thought. ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Sat Feb 5 11:58:02 2005 Subject: [CP] Leaf 'cuttings' vs leaf /stem 'cuttings' Dear Brooks and Barry, Yeah, this is one point I was attempting to make in my last email. While I doubt you will detach a dormant bud by using the "Leaf pulling method", I think you do end up with a small piece of stem. The little bits of stem tissue can and do have clumps of undifferentiated cells which can turn into any type of cell in the right conditions. I suppose you can think of these as tiny buds, but I think of a bud as a more advanced structure already assigning cells to be either stem tissue or leaf tissue. As the stem tissue of _Sarracenia_ is constantly producing new roots on the bottom as it grows forward, the bottom areas of little bits of stem on (or near?) the end of the leaf have no trouble turning into roots after recovering from the operation. Then the bud has to wait until it can convince the cells at it's top (or side?) that they are supposed to be an apical meristem growing leaves, which I guess takes a lot more organization or has a smaller window of opportunity. Brooks, I believe you are correct, it does appear that _Sarracenia_ can grow from back up buds, and I also think it has the ability to produce new buds from old stem, as does _Darlingtonia_, not sure about _Heliamphora_. In _Sarraceniaceae_ there appears to be very little apical dominance as they are constantly branching indicating the buds are not being held dormant. This statement sounds more like a description of _Nepenthes_ growing habit: 'Nature has build these buds in case the terminal bud is damaged and by removing the terminal bud and it's apical dominance, the lack of signal allows for the lateral buds to start growing.' I'm not sure if this applies to plants that grow horizontally as strongly as it does plants which grow vertically... Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of ThomBroGar@aol.com Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 8:09 AM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Barry, Could the difference in these two methods not also be the fact that with a leaf/stem cutting you are getting a piece of the outer rhizome layer that has a dormant bud? Is it not true for Sarracenias like many other plants that at the base if each leaf axis there is a dormant bud. I believe this is the theory when a rhizome cutting is taken. Nature has build these 'back up' buds in case the terminal bud is damaged and by removing the terminal bud and removing apical dominance the signal goes out for the lateral buds to start growing. Just a thought. Brooks Garcia, Atlanta ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Sat Feb 5 13:38:24 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: more D.meristocaulis seed germination pattern EHEM. Fernando, I already told you I got meristocaulis germination too, so I think that makes *me* the fourth person. :) I'm still waiting for hirticalyx though. Matt -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sat Feb 5 14:24:03 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: leaf pullings/cuttings So your trying to say the eqivilent to Sarracenia Stem-cells are being pulled off with the leaf and they cause the new plant to develop. Tre ################### From: AppleCakeTeaRoom at aol.com (AppleCakeTeaRoom@aol.com) Date: Sat Feb 5 18:47:19 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: North Texas Graduate Symposium Well the Symposium went very well with about 200 people in attendance from all walks of biological sciences. People seemed quite interested in the SEM pictures of the CP seed coats and the VFT mutant SEMs. Anywho the big news is that we won the Best Undergraduate Poster, and it came with a nice little check too. You all know where that money's going to go right? Yup, more CPs for the bog! :-) ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Sun Feb 6 10:59:50 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: leaf pullings/cuttings Dear Tre, In a word, yes. Dave E. -----Original Message----- Of Tre Bond Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 5:24 PM So you're trying to say the eqivilent to Sarracenia Stem-cells are being pulled off with the leaf and they cause the new plant to develop. Tre ################### From: Junglejimie at aol.com (Junglejimie@aol.com) Date: Mon Feb 7 02:29:02 2005 Subject: [CP] Traveling to Honduras ################### From: Junglejimie at aol.com (Junglejimie@aol.com) Date: Mon Feb 7 02:32:11 2005 Subject: [CP] Nepenthes cuttings ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Mon Feb 7 12:42:08 2005 Subject: [CP] D. meristocaulis germination photo Hi all, Ed Read has photographed my seedlings of D. meristocaulis. You can view one on the Los Angeles CP Society webpage at: http://www.geocities.com/lacps//Dmeristocaulis.html I sent a photo to Fernando, but no reply yet. He must be living it up at Carnival at the present. When he returns I hope he will writeup his intriguing ideas on the plant. Congratulations to all those who have germinated the seed of this species. Mine are starting off extraordinarily slow, but look quite healthy. With luck, maybe later this year, the pants will be mature and ready for my next stage experiment. Many of you know what this will entail:-) Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Tue Feb 8 11:01:49 2005 Subject: [CP] D.meristocaulis mucho germination :))) Hi all, I'm happy to say that more D.meristocaulis seeds are sprouting - it looks like I've got a good crop. I'm VERY happy about this! The roraimae and G.repens seed I offered have germinated as well. The only one I haven't germinated yet is hirticalyx, but I'm patiently waiting. If anyone still wants seed, email your requests as I hope to divide the rest up shortly. Thanks, Matt -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ################### From: cplistserv at carnivorousplant.com (Joseph Clemens) Date: Tue Feb 8 18:07:09 2005 Subject: [CP] D.meristocaulis mucho germination :))) Matt, Could you please refresh my recollection, what do you have left and how much is it. Good growing, Joseph ----- Original Message ----- To: "Sundew Club" Cc: "cp list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 12:00 PM > Hi all, > I'm happy to say that more D.meristocaulis seeds are sprouting - it looks > like I've got a good crop. I'm VERY happy about this! The roraimae and > G.repens seed I offered have germinated as well. The only one I haven't > germinated yet is hirticalyx, but I'm patiently waiting. If anyone still > wants seed, email your requests as I hope to divide the rest up shortly. > Thanks, > Matt > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 > DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA > I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, > South America or other tropical / subtropical places. > Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Tue Feb 8 18:15:53 2005 Subject: [CP] Rot spoted on bladderwort I noticed part of the main stem had rotted on my Utricularia macrorhiza . I cut off the rotted parts,and did change the water(distilled) in the container. What you think caused the rot? Wolf ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Tue Feb 8 19:14:02 2005 Subject: [CP] Rot spoted on bladderwort It got old? i find that my macrorhiza will form turions about three times a year and the stems die away. And even while growing, the old part of the stem naturally rots away as the new end continues producing growth. In a message dated 2/8/2005 6:15:48 PM Pacific Standard Time, harryq1972@hotmail.com writes: I noticed part of the main stem had rotted on my Utricularia macrorhiza . I cut off the rotted parts,and did change the water(distilled) in the container. What you think caused the rot? Wolf TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: mdbishoff at comcast.net (Mike Bishoff) Date: Tue Feb 8 22:16:41 2005 Subject: [CP] How to Use Orthene? Hi All - I have some aphids on semi-dormant Drosera capensis and VFTs, but too many to simply pick off with tweezers. I read in D'Amato that Orthene was a good remedy to get rid of the aphids, but was unclear on how best to use it. I didn't want to simply follow the directions on the can without consulting the list group first. The Orthene is 75S wettable powder and comes in a shaker can. Do I simply sprinkle the Orthene on the plants sparingly? Only on the soil? Both soil and leaves? Your experience and wisdom appreciated. ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Tue Feb 8 23:20:57 2005 Subject: [CP] Growing U humboldtii? / Cephalotus medium Hi friends, A friend just sent me U.humboldtii and Cephalotus (thanks!!) and I wanted to know the best way to grow the Utric and the preferred medium for Ceph. Anyone? I seem to recall having better luck with peat/perlite than sphag in the past when growing Ceph. Or was it the other way around? Thanks! Matt -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Wed Feb 9 08:35:00 2005 Subject: [CP] How to Use Orthene? You use 2 tbs and put in one gallon of distilled water. Then pur the incesticide in a spray bottle,and spray on the plants. The plants will absorb the stuff,so would be no need to spray it for a while. Wolf ----Original Message Follows---- Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group To: Hi All - I have some aphids on semi-dormant Drosera capensis and VFTs, but too many to simply pick off with tweezers. I read in D'Amato that Orthene was a good remedy to get rid of the aphids, but was unclear on how best to use it. I didn't want to simply follow the directions on the can without consulting the list group first. The Orthene is 75S wettable powder and comes in a shaker can. Do I simply sprinkle the Orthene on the plants sparingly? Only on the soil? Both soil and leaves? Your experience and wisdom appreciated. Mike - Seattle, WA _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Wed Feb 9 08:41:01 2005 Subject: [CP] receiving individual emails instead of digest? / Listserv- Can someone please tell me how I can set the CP listserv to deliver individual emails instead of a digest. Also, I noticed the web page I used to visit to see messages via the web isn't working now. Could someone please email me the correct URL? Thanks, Matt -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Wed Feb 9 08:44:03 2005 Subject: [CP] Rot spoted on bladderwort Thanks HmrTheHrmt@aol.com! I got worry there for a while since I just bought this plant like last month from Meadowview. I didn't know what I was doing wrong? They came out of dormancy about a day after I put them by window. Then by spring they all go outdoors in big containers like small ponds. Wolf ----Original Message Follows---- Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group To: Cp@omnisterra.com It got old? i find that my macrorhiza will form turions about three times a year and the stems die away. And even while growing, the old part of the stem naturally rots away as the new end continues producing growth. In a message dated 2/8/2005 6:15:48 PM Pacific Standard Time, harryq1972@hotmail.com writes: I noticed part of the main stem had rotted on my Utricularia macrorhiza . I cut off the rotted parts,and did change the water(distilled) in the container. What you think caused the rot? Wolf TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 9 11:44:56 2005 Subject: [CP] Rot spoted on bladderwort I still haven't determined what factors this plant uses for dormancy, because as I mentioned, I've had it go into a dormant turion state three times over the course of one year! I'm thinking the shaded location it is in may be triggering some sort of photo-dormancy activity, but my australa which goes dormant in winter does fine in this location. Fortunately, it forms HUGE turions, so I'm always assured that it is doing well. In a message dated 2/9/2005 8:43:43 AM Pacific Standard Time, harryq1972@hotmail.com writes: Thanks HmrTheHrmt@aol.com! I got worry there for a while since I just bought this plant like last month from Meadowview. I didn't know what I was doing wrong? They came out of dormancy about a day after I put them by window. Then by spring they all go outdoors in big containers like small ponds. Wolf TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Wed Feb 9 13:03:14 2005 Subject: [CP] Ceph, U humb. For cephs one part sphagnum peat to one part perlite to one part sand works well for me. Wow you were lucking in finding that U. humb. I have been looking. Recently one ebay one sold for something like $73. ################### From: ClaraVoiAunt at aol.com (ClaraVoiAunt@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 9 18:35:17 2005 Subject: [CP] RE:Use of orthene Mike, In case you only have a few plants,That would break down to about 3/4 of a tsp orthene to 8 oz. of pure H2o, . Orthene is mainly a systemic pesticide but should kill the live pest on contact and as Herman says, remain effective for 2-3 months. Orthene should only be used on ornamental plants. keep 'em plants growin' Lois In a message dated 2/9/2005 12:03:03 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: You use 2 tbs and put in one gallon of distilled water. ################### From: mdbishoff at comcast.net (Mike Bishoff) Date: Wed Feb 9 18:36:44 2005 Subject: [CP] How to Use Orthene? Excellent! I've found little to no discussion on the use of Orthene on the CP list, so I'll give this a shot per Wolf's recommendation and let everyone know the results and impact on my CPs and the aphids. Mike -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 8:33 AM To: Cp@omnisterra.com You use 2 tbs and put in one gallon of distilled water. Then pur the incesticide in a spray bottle,and spray on the plants. The plants will absorb the stuff,so would be no need to spray it for a while. Wolf ----Original Message Follows---- Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group To: Hi All - I have some aphids on semi-dormant Drosera capensis and VFTs, but too many to simply pick off with tweezers. I read in D'Amato that Orthene was a good remedy to get rid of the aphids, but was unclear on how best to use it. I didn't want to simply follow the directions on the can without consulting the list group first. The Orthene is 75S wettable powder and comes in a shaker can. Do I simply sprinkle the Orthene on the plants sparingly? Only on the soil? Both soil and leaves? Your experience and wisdom appreciated. Mike - Seattle, WA _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: hcl at copper.net (hcl@copper.net) Date: Wed Feb 9 23:48:49 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 9 The preferred medium for the Ceph I'm growing is equal parts silica sand, peat, and perlite. happy growing, Homer > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 02:19:27 -0500 > From: "Sundew" > Subject: [CP] Growing U humboldtii? / Cephalotus medium > To: "cp list" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi friends, > A friend just sent me U.humboldtii and Cephalotus (thanks!!) and I wanted to > know the best way to grow the Utric and the preferred medium for Ceph. > Anyone? I seem to recall having better luck with peat/perlite than sphag in > the past when growing Ceph. Or was it the other way around? > Thanks! > Matt > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-=-= > SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 > DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA > I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, > South America or other tropical / subtropical places. > Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-=-= -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.6 - Release Date: 2/7/2005 ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Thu Feb 10 08:45:59 2005 Subject: [CP] How to Use Orthene? Mike,if you only have few plants then just use a 1/2 gallon jug w/distillwater and 1 tbs of Orthene. That would last you a while. For me,I have a gallon on hand,but I sometimes spray my native honeysuckles with it too. Not much. My pitcherplants was only attacted once past late summer by scales,so only had to use insecticide once on them. So I have all this insecticide on hand just incase I need it. Same with fungicide. Wolf ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Thu Feb 10 14:09:18 2005 Subject: [CP] How to Use Orthene? Dear Wolf, Check your bottles' instructions. There should be a length of time mentioned for how long you can keep the diluted mixture. In New Jersey we don't have Orthene anymore, but something called "Systemic Insect Control, formerly known as Isotox", which contains Orthene. Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of Harry Q Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 11:43 AM Mike, if you only have few plants then just use a 1/2 gallon jug w/distill water and 1 tbs of Orthene. That would last you a while. For me, I have a gallon on hand, but I sometimes spray my native honeysuckles with it too. Not much. My pitcher plants was only attacked once past late summer by scales, so only had to use insecticide once on them. So I have all this insecticide on hand just incase I need it. Same with fungicide. Wolf ################### From: it_290 at hotmail.com (mike wilder) Date: Thu Feb 10 18:01:20 2005 Subject: [CP] seeking professor chiaki shibata hello, does anyone out there have an email address for professor chiaki shibata? i would very much like to contact her regarding the film she showed at the tokyo conference. please email me off list if you prefer. thanks very much in advance-- mike wilder www.geocities.com/pingenstein ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Thu Feb 10 19:16:19 2005 Subject: [CP] How to Use Orthene? It don't say much on instructions,mainly how to use on fire ants. But I can always use freash gallon. I have plenty of Orthene to use,which I don't use much of it. Wolf ----Original Message Follows---- Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" Dear Wolf, Check your bottles' instructions. There should be a length of time mentioned for how long you can keep the diluted mixture. In New Jersey we don't have Orthene anymore, but something called "Systemic Insect Control, formerly known as Isotox", which contains Orthene. Dave Evans ################### From: bill.weaver at hp.com (Weaver, Bill) Date: Fri Feb 11 00:27:36 2005 Subject: [CP] Orthene and Aphids A little note of caution on killing aphids. First, most of the time you can just use your spray bottle set to a stream and blow the little perishers off your plants with a little water. There are several formulas that have been discussed on this forum that can be used to make this more effective. If you want a much more long lasting effect, Orthene 75S works really well. However, the dosage should be 1-2 teaspoons (tsp) not tablespoons (tbs) per gallon. (I usually use a spreader/sticker (basically a couple drops of soap) when I spray, but the soap is really rough on drosera) On aphids, one application will do. For anything tougher like scale, two applications spaced a week to 10 days apart is best. And finally, only mix up what you plan to use today. Depending on your water, the effectiveness of your pesticide actually starts to diminish as soon as you mix it with water. In a week you may just be spraying with dirty water Bill ################### From: westaustralia at libero.it (Cristiano Perrucci) Date: Fri Feb 11 01:38:38 2005 Subject: [CP] Clay Vs. Peat Dear all, has anybody tried to use clay soil in Petiolaris Group droseras cultivation? A few months ago, I put some plants in a mix of 70% silixca sand ad 30% clay with fair results. D.paradoxa, D.broomesis and D.caduca seems to enjoy that soil type. That clay is slightly acid with pH~6.5, with a little trace of carbonates. More experiences to share? Cheers, Cristiano Perrucci, Genoa -Italy- ____________________________________________________________ 6X velocizzare la tua navigazione a 56k? 6X Web Accelerator di Libero! Scaricalo su INTERNET GRATIS 6X http://www.libero.it ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Fri Feb 11 17:10:18 2005 Subject: [CP] bog garden Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I would get/make a large bog garden inexpensivly. The sphagnum and sand costs are no bad but containers are not large enough or cost about a hundred dollars. Any help would be appreciated ################### From: mike at mjv.com (Michael Vanecek) Date: Fri Feb 11 17:17:19 2005 Subject: [CP] bog garden Rubber Pond-liner would be a solution. Just be careful with tools and impliments in the bog, as well as keep deer from jumping in... Think of the bog as a regular pond that just so happens to be filled up with peat. Cheers, Mike -- http://www.mjv.com/ Tre Bond wrote: > Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I would get/make a large > bog garden inexpensivly. The sphagnum and sand costs are no bad but > containers are not large enough or cost about a hundred dollars. Any > help would be appreciated ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Fri Feb 11 17:39:56 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: more D.meristocaulis seed germination pattern Hello to all! Back from carnaval on the beach and happy to say I've heard from 3 more lucky CPers who've germinated D.meristocaulis!!! (Yes, including you Matt!) ;-) Most people have so far reported cryptocotylar germination (cotyledons remaining inside the seed coat), but some have also reported phanerocotylar germination (cotyledons emerging from the seed coat). At least one person has confirmed that the phanerocotylar seedlings observed are apparently stray seed contaminating the D.meristocaulis pot. So the trend so far seems to point to cryptocotylar.... This would be the first New World Drosera to be cryptocotylar!!! Ed & Ivan, thanks for the pic of D.meristocaulis seedling, please show us more!! It would be great to document all the stages in life of this species up to maturity. Congrats to all!! Fernando Rivadavia ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Fri Feb 11 19:23:59 2005 Subject: [CP] bog garden Try pond liner? Its made of rubber,and is cheaper and last long time. You can buy size for 6ftx4ft for like $60-$70? Harry ----Original Message Follows---- Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group To: Cp@omnisterra.com Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I would get/make a large bog garden inexpensivly. The sphagnum and sand costs are no bad but containers are not large enough or cost about a hundred dollars. Any help would be appreciated --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Fri Feb 11 19:33:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Here's What I Trying Grow From Seeds Well,I just took out the pots out of frig and placed by window. Even though I didn't need to put in frig,but did it because I don't know how old the seeds were when I bought them? But now see they will germinate for me since I nevered grew cps from seeds before. Don't worry,I asked experts before I placed pots in frig,and was told to do it if they might not be freash off the pods. Trying Grow From Seeds: Bladderworts Horned Bladderwort Utricularia carnuta-FL Southern Bladderwort Utricularia juncea-FL Butterworts Violet Butterwort Pinguicula caerulea-FL Yellow Butterwort Pinguicula lutea-FL Tiny Butterwort Pinguicula pumila-FL Flytrap Venus Flytrap Dionaea muscipala var. heterophlla-NC Sundews Round-leaved Sundew Drosera rotundifolia-NJ Pink Sundew Drosera capillaris var. capillaris- SC Wollf ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Fri Feb 11 20:54:01 2005 Subject: [CP] Clay Vs. Peat Dear Cristiano, Petiolaris _Drosera_ can be found growing in clayish soil (laterite) so I think you have a very good idea here. Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of Cristiano Perrucci Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 4:36 AM To: Cp Dear all, has anybody tried to use clay soil in Petiolaris Group Drosera cultivation? A few months ago, I put some plants in a mix of 70% silica sand ad 30% clay with fair results. D.paradoxa, D.broomensis and D.caduca seems to enjoy that soil type. That clay is slightly acid with pH~6.5, with a little trace of carbonates. Cheers, Cristiano Perrucci, Genoa -Italy- ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Fri Feb 11 21:16:08 2005 Subject: [CP] Trying from seeds Here is list I am trying to grow from seed. Trying Grow From Seeds: Horned Bladderwort Utricularia carnuta (FL) Southern Bladderwort Utricularia juncea (FL) Violet Butterwort Pinguicula caerulea (FL) Yellow Butterwort Pinguicula lutea (FL) Tiny Butterwort Pinguicula pumila (FL) Venus Flytrap Dionaea muscipala var. heterophlla (NC) Round-leaved Sundew Drosera rotundifolia (NJ) Pink Sundew Drosera capillaris var. capillaris (SC) Wolf ################### From: westaustralia at libero.it (Cristiano Perrucci) Date: Sat Feb 12 01:23:41 2005 Subject: [CP] Clay Vs. Peat Dear Dave, you are right. The point is this. Almost all petiolaris growing from Darwin to Broome, thrive in claysh soils expecially near termite mounds. This was the starting point for the experiment. The clay I used has quite comparable phisical properties as pH, color, consistency (dry and wet), carbonates and so on. Unfortunally I can't carry out reliable tests because this kind of analysis can be done only in well equipped labs (eg. university), not here. Cristiano, Genova -Italy- > Dear Cristiano, > > > Petiolaris _Drosera_ can be found growing in clayish soil (laterite) > so I think you have a very good idea here. > > > Dave Evans > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On Behalf > Of Cristiano Perrucci > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 4:36 AM > To: Cp > Subject: [CP] Clay Vs. Peat > > > Dear all, > has anybody tried to use clay soil in Petiolaris Group Drosera cultivation? > A few months ago, I put some plants in a mix of 70% silica sand ad 30% clay > with fair results. D.paradoxa, D.broomensis and D.caduca seems to enjoy that > soil type. > That clay is slightly acid with pH~6.5, with a little trace of carbonates. > > Cheers, > Cristiano Perrucci, Genoa -Italy- > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ____________________________________________________________ Navighi a 2 MEGA e i primi 3 mesi sono GRATIS. Scegli Libero Adsl Flat senza limiti su http://www.libero.it ################### From: jmateosky at yahoo.com (JIM MATEOSKY) Date: Sat Feb 12 05:22:06 2005 Subject: [CP] looking for nepenthes wholesaler(s) Hi all, Any Suggestions on Nepenthes wholesalers? I live in Costa Rica in a cloud forrest, I currently grow bromeliads, and nepenthis for hobby, but I think my location would be excellent for the highlanders. Thanks, Jim Mateosky jmateosky@yahoo.com ################### From: csvieira at epm.net.co (Sebastian Vieira U.) Date: Sun Feb 13 05:40:52 2005 Subject: [CP] meristocaulis germination Ummm, now I am starting to get worried, I have no germination yet and the seed has been there for a month. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 10/02/2005 ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Sun Feb 13 06:06:34 2005 Subject: [CP] meristocaulis germination No need to worry yet Sebas since mine have been sitting on the soil surface for over 2 months now! And it is summer down here, so the weather has been rather warm. (Although I have to admit the pots are very mossy and the seedlings might be hidden in there somewhere...) Good Luck, Fernando Rivadavia ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 10:40 AM > Ummm, now I am starting to get worried, I have no germination yet and > the seed has been there for a month. > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 10/02/2005 > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Sun Feb 13 15:45:14 2005 Subject: [CP] meristocaulis germination Hi Fernando and Sebastian, Meristocaulis took 2 months to germinate for me, so just forget about them and look again in a month! Matt Message: 2 To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" Message-ID: <000e01c511de$d83d6000$704406c9@abbrazil> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" No need to worry yet Sebas since mine have been sitting on the soil surface for over 2 months now! And it is summer down here, so the weather has been rather warm. (Although I have to admit the pots are very mossy and the seedlings might be hidden in there somewhere...) Good Luck, Fernando Rivadavia -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Mon Feb 14 09:37:56 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: D. meristocaulis Hi Fernando, We will get more photos soon and put them up on the same page. I'll let you know here when we do. Two of my seedlings unfolded their first killer leaves and I have used microscopic manipulation to feed them. While doing this I noticed something else interesting about the plant which is not in the species description. The retentive glands at the tips of the long marginal tentacles are shaped as only I have seen a pygmy species. They lie dorsally on the tentacle and project upward, and are door-knob shaped. With all the characteristics they share, I am totally convinced D. meristocaulis should be placed in the pygmy group. I figure we might as well call it the South American Pygmy Sundew. Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Mon Feb 14 17:25:14 2005 Subject: [CP] hi, im jon hey im new to cps and i love them! im only 17, but i have a thirst for propagation and growing. right now i have just on cp the regualr vft. my current objective is to get cold hardy and native cps in new england (i want to start a bog garden this spring!) right now im looking for sarracenia flava, sarracenia leueophylla,sarracenia rubra, or any other cps that can go into my bog garden that will survive the rough new england weather! -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: stephenwd at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Davis) Date: Mon Feb 14 19:56:12 2005 Subject: [CP] Great Article on John Philip - NECPS http://www.projo.com/garden/content/projo_20050213_plants.1d3388b.html on John Philip from the NECPS. Well done John! Stephen Davis stephenwd@sbcglobal.net www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com ################### From: Jeremiahsplants at adelphia.net (Jeremiah Harris) Date: Mon Feb 14 21:55:54 2005 Subject: [CP] hi, im jon Hello, My name is Jeremiah Harris I'm also 17. I'm founder of the Colorado Carnivorous Plant Society, if you would like to join our forums at http://s4.invisionfree.com/CCPS/index.php?act=idx it is still a small discussion forum but it is growing. I have been grow CPs since I was 4, now grow just under 400 different kinds you can view my grow list at http://s4.invisionfree.com/CCPS/index.php?showtopic=155. If you would be interested in paying for shipping ($3.85 for priority mail) I would be more the happy to send you a small assortment of CPs including S. flava, S. leueophylla and maybe S. rubra (I will check and see if I have an extra tomorrow). Let me know what you think. BTW. What is your favorite genus of CPs? thanks -Jeremiah- ________________________________________________________ Colorado Carnivorous Plant Society Jeremiah Harris 712 Columbia Rd Colorado Springs CO 80904 (719)-578-8123 AIM: Nepenthesrajah jeremiahsplants@adelphia.net http://www.geocities.com/colorado_carnivorousplantsociety/ ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 6:24 PM hey im new to cps and i love them! im only 17, but i have a thirst for propagation and growing. right now i have just on cp the regualr vft. my current objective is to get cold hardy and native cps in new england (i want to start a bog garden this spring!) right now im looking for sarracenia flava, sarracenia leueophylla,sarracenia rubra, or any other cps that can go into my bog garden that will survive the rough new england weather! -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Tue Feb 15 09:40:11 2005 Subject: [CP] New photos at Galleria Carnivora Hey Folks, Just a head's up that I've added a nice set of 32 new photographs to my photo gallery. You can see these at: http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/g343.html I think these include some of the finest studio shots I've ever taken; I'm quite pleased with them! Some highlights: **A closeup of a fungus gnat on D. graminifolia. (So THAT'S what a fungus gnat looks like close up...) **A backlit image of an unfurling D. regia leaf that I find quite beautiful (and M.C. Escher-esque). **Genlisea aurea submerged in its own deep mucous. **An interesting Pinguicula caerulea flower sport (it has a peculiar pigmentation pattern). **A rather pretty Pinguicula laueana rosette. ...and scads others. I'm interesting in hearing any comments! Cheers Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. FAQ--Author http://www.sarracenia.com/faq.html Galleria Carnivora--Curator http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/galleria.html ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Tue Feb 15 10:21:46 2005 Subject: [CP] New photos at Galleria Carnivora Hey Barry, > >Hey Folks, > >Just a head's up that I've added a nice set of 32 new photographs to my >photo gallery. You can see these at: >http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/g343.html >I think these include some of the finest studio shots I've ever taken; I'm >quite pleased with them! > >Some highlights: > >**A closeup of a fungus gnat on D. graminifolia. (So THAT'S what a fungus >gnat looks like close up...) Cool photos. I especially liked the D. regia and your fungus gnat photo. I don't remember enough of my entomology, but I know that you can sex a lot of dipterans based on their antennae. If I remember correctly, fuzzy antennae (like yours) belong to females while males have plain, non-fuzzy antennae (I've got a 50/50 chance on this). Just another nerdy useless fact to store away in your brain ;-)! Cheers! Chris ################### From: calebcaleb_2000 at hotmail.com (caleb shaffer) Date: Tue Feb 15 14:24:12 2005 Subject: [CP] Question re: germination Hi- I am hoping that I can get some advice on what to do with some cp seeds I have. While I have been growing plants for a number of years, I am attempting to grow from seed for the first time. I have had two plastic bags with seeds for S. flava (Schnell Clone) and S. rubra ssp. gulfensis in the fridge for about 6 months now. My question is how I should go about germinating them. Would they still be good seeds since they have been in the fridge? And, if so, would I still need to cold stratify them (they were just in plastic bags and no growing medium)? Thank you for any help you can provide! Caleb ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Tue Feb 15 15:15:45 2005 Subject: [CP] re: new england cps Thanks Jeremiah you are sure a nice person, i would be able to send you the postage, was it $3.85? also i would need the adress to send it to, also have you had any experince with the species that i metioned and their conpatibilty with cold weather bog gardens? and one more thing, ive never had plants sent to me, so how do they survive being shipped in a box for so long? thanks, jon p.s sorry for all the qestions! p.p.s. i love all cps but i would have to say that my favs are the pitcher plants that i can keep in my (soon to be) bog garden, i just cant wait to see them growing in my backyard! all i have to do is keep them alive intill i can get them out there! i hope i can do it! -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: o.marthaler at bluewin.ch (o.marthaler@bluewin.ch) Date: Tue Feb 15 15:16:30 2005 Subject: [CP] Sarr, Dros, VT fen... or Nep ??? reference: 4. New photos at Galleria Carnivora (Barry Rice) in the latest issue of the forum Hi Barry, Super photos indeed... but am I confused or the photo labelled "Sarracenia, Drosera, VT fen" in your Oct.-Nov Galleria additions rather shows a nepenthes ? Maybe it was a joke I failed to understand :) Cheers, OL ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Tue Feb 15 15:22:22 2005 Subject: [CP] Question re: germination Hi Caleb, John B. maintains good instructions on germinating various cp seed on the ICPS website. I'd recommend visiting there for more detailed advice. Of course, I'm assuming the information is still there, I haven't check for a while! If you've had them stored dry in the fridge, they should be fine. I've germinated some seed that was over 10 years old with good success. The key when storing it is to keep it cool and dry. For germinating, they will require a cool, moist period of stratification. I generally try to give all Sarracenia seed about a month of stratification. Opinions will vary on the length. Since it is approaching spring, you may want to wait until risks of hard frosts pass (or bring in the pots at night), and direct sow the seed onto soil mix and leave outside to let it germinate on its own. The other option I usually use is to place the seed in between some moist (not soaking wet) paper towel, place in a ziploc, and put it in the fridge for a month. You'll usually notice lots of mould at the end of the month, but Sarr seed seems to be pretty resistant to it. Place on the surface of your soil, and most will germinate within another month. Wait 3-5 years for flowering! Cheers! Chris >Hi- > >I am hoping that I can get some advice on what to do with some cp seeds I >have. While I have been growing plants for a number of years, I am >attempting to grow from seed for the first time. I have had two plastic >bags with seeds for S. flava (Schnell Clone) and S. rubra ssp. gulfensis in >the fridge for about 6 months now. My question is how I should go about >germinating them. Would they still be good seeds since they have been in >the fridge? And, if so, would I still need to cold stratify them (they >were just in plastic bags and no growing medium)? > >Thank you for any help you can provide! > >Caleb > > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Tue Feb 15 17:14:38 2005 Subject: [CP] Great Article on John Philip - NECPS Could be, but I'll never know. To register to read it I had to fill out a registration form, and as a general rule, I never fill such things out. In a message dated 2/14/2005 7:56:30 PM Pacific Standard Time, stephenwd@sbcglobal.net writes: http://www.projo.com/garden/content/projo_20050213_plants.1d3388b.html on John Philip from the NECPS. Well done John! TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: paul.temple at eds.com (Temple, Paul) Date: Wed Feb 16 01:05:21 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: hi, im jon (jon mungeam) I'm Paul Temple and at 17 I had a thirst for propagation too! Oops - sorry, couldn't resist the opportunity to maintain a topic that wasn't about red-green rosetty sprouting things . Regrets to fuddy duddys who think this was too off topic!. Regards Paul ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Wed Feb 16 08:39:46 2005 Subject: [CP] more D. meristocaulis Hi all, There are now 3 more photos of seedling D. meristocaulis on the Los Angeles CP Society web site www.geocities.com/lacps . You can click on this link to go directly to the page: http://www.geocities.com/lacps//Dmeristocaulis.html These 3 new later stage shots are of the seed germinating which at first fooled me because it was standing propped up on end when it germinated. As you can see the seed leaves are still hidden (*crypto*cotylar) within the seed. This seedling has already fed, and I removed the remains. Fernando, Can you write something for Ed to put up on the page? I can, but not sure you will agree with all I think. Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: n.bellii at netzero.net (n.bellii@netzero.net) Date: Wed Feb 16 10:44:13 2005 Subject: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids Hello, I've been looking through my some of my cp books, and can't find information about sterile Drosera hybrids. Do most Drosera hybrids set sterile seeds or no seed at all? Ivan Snyders article in the June 2003 CPN, mentions Drosera x obovata as an example of a hybrid that should not be able to set seed, because of non viable pollen, but also states this same hybrid as not ever being documented to produce viable seeds. The same article Ivan mentions finding underdeveloped seeds in small amounts, at natural sites of this hybrid. How does formation of non-viable seed take place, in plants that should not be able to set seed at all? Thank you, Steven Stewart Florida, USA ################### From: CMcdon0923 at aol.com (CMcdon0923@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 16 11:53:24 2005 Subject: [CP] A Sure Sign of Spring..... Just walked down to the greenhouse to see how everyone was doing, and I noticed that one of my S. leucophylla is sending up a flower scape. Craig Frisco, TX ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Wed Feb 16 12:14:10 2005 Subject: [CP] A Sure Sign of Spring..... I just walked out of my front door this morning, and noticed it was -18C. Spring is a ways off for my area :-)! Chris > >Just walked down to the greenhouse to see how everyone was doing, and I >noticed that one of my S. leucophylla is sending up a flower scape. > >Craig >Frisco, TX > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Wed Feb 16 12:27:10 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Sarr, Dros, VT fen... or Nep ??? Hi OL, The photo you mentioned: http://www.sarracenia.com/photos/habitats/habvt01.jpg is indeed a photograph from a fen in Vermont. The foreground plant you are confused by is not a Nepenthes, but is rather just an interesting little herb. I admit, though, it is an amusing illusion, but not one I intentionally created or intended. Cheers Barry > reference: 4. New photos at Galleria Carnivora (Barry > Rice) in the latest > issue of the forum > > Hi Barry, > > Super photos indeed... but am I confused or the photo labelled > "Sarracenia, Drosera, VT fen" in your Oct.-Nov Galleria > additions rather shows a nepenthes ? > Maybe it was a joke I failed to understand :) > Cheers, > > OL ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Wed Feb 16 12:29:01 2005 Subject: [CP] A Sure Sign of Spring..... Yep,same up here in northeast! I notice some of native lily plants are popping up about a week ago? A sure sign of early spring weather. Wolf ----Original Message Follows---- Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group To: Cp@omnisterra.com Just walked down to the greenhouse to see how everyone was doing, and I noticed that one of my S. leucophylla is sending up a flower scape. Craig Frisco, TX _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: Jeremiahsplants at adelphia.net (Jeremiah Harris) Date: Wed Feb 16 13:08:38 2005 Subject: [CP] re: new england cps Hello, lol thanks. Yeah postage is $3.85 for priority mail. I always ship priority mail because I can pay and ship it from home, it make things a lot easier. My address is, Colorado Carnivorous Plant Society Jeremiah Harris 712 Columbia Rd Colorado Springs CO 80904 I have never left any of my Sarracenia out past 20F, you might just have to experiment or talk to someone who has. I ship tons of plants, I have given away over 140 boxes and traded at least that many and I have only had one plant not make it in shipping. The plants are usually in the box for about 3 day with priority mail so really not that long. Sarracenia ship really well this time of yeah since most are in dormancy. Thanks -Jeremiah- ________________________________________________________ Colorado Carnivorous Plant Society Jeremiah Harris 712 Columbia Rd Colorado Springs CO 80904 (719)-578-8123 AIM: Nepenthesrajah jeremiahsplants@adelphia.net http://www.geocities.com/colorado_carnivorousplantsociety/ ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 4:15 PM Thanks Jeremiah you are sure a nice person, i would be able to send you the postage, was it $3.85? also i would need the adress to send it to, also have you had any experince with the species that i metioned and their conpatibilty with cold weather bog gardens? and one more thing, ive never had plants sent to me, so how do they survive being shipped in a box for so long? thanks, jon p.s sorry for all the qestions! p.p.s. i love all cps but i would have to say that my favs are the pitcher plants that i can keep in my (soon to be) bog garden, i just cant wait to see them growing in my backyard! all i have to do is keep them alive intill i can get them out there! i hope i can do it! -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 2/14/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 2/14/2005 ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Wed Feb 16 13:40:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Out of Zone CPs/Re Drosera hybrid Hey Everyone, Does anyone know of an naturalised out of zone cps. Keyword is naturized as in living and reproducing in a natural bog or something without your help. If so plese tell me. Not speciefics but generalizations. Like I know of naturized S. purpurea ssp. venosa var. burkeii and S. leucophylla here in NE Florida. Counties are generally not needed but if you have them that would be okay as long as you think no one will find the plants. I am curious about whether or not any other non-natives have been naturized out of zone. What species was htat in the Pine Barrens? ################### From: o.marthaler at bluewin.ch (o.marthaler@bluewin.ch) Date: Wed Feb 16 14:15:36 2005 Subject: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids Hi Steven, Not being a botanist at all, I will only mention to you my own and modest experience: Nearly three years ago in the spring, I collected a few droseras x obovatas (?)in a couple of bogs overhere in Western Switzerland, as a young friend of mine was doing a school research in botany about the carnivorous flora of our region. Collecting them was intended to make sure the plants he was studying were not dr. anglica, as the leaves did look quite similar indeed. So those plants later flowered at my place, and, while in the same conditions *definitely sure* dr. rotundifolia and dr. anglica produced seeds *(viable, as I sowed them later and they germinated), those dr. obovatas also flowered, but produced NO seeds whatsoever! Thus we deduced they were x obovata indeed... But are ALL x obovata sterile in nature? Sorry we'll have to wait for more expert answers! Just my little brick on the wall! Cheers, OL btw: "your" nep. bical. sown in CH look splendid now ! Thanx again. >Message: 8 >Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 18:42:08 GMT >From: "n.bellii@netzero.net" >Subject: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids >To: Cp@omnisterra.com >Message-ID: <20050216.104236.15672.70344@webmail26.lax.untd.com> >Content-Type: text/plain > > >Hello, > >I've been looking through my some of my cp books, and can't find information >about sterile Drosera hybrids. > >Do most Drosera hybrids set sterile seeds or no seed at all? > >Ivan Snyders article in the June 2003 CPN, mentions Drosera x obovata as >an example of a hybrid that should not be able to set seed, because of non >viable pollen, but also states this same hybrid as not ever being documented >to produce viable seeds. The same article Ivan mentions finding underdeveloped >seeds in small amounts, at natural sites of this hybrid. > >How does formation of non-viable seed take place, in plants that should not >be able to set seed at all? > >Thank you, >Steven Stewart >Florida, USA > > > ################### From: AppleCakeTeaRoom at aol.com (AppleCakeTeaRoom@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 16 17:29:22 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Sure Sign of Spring "Just walked down to the greenhouse to see how everyone was doing, and I noticed that one of my S. leucophylla is sending up a flower scape." That's great news! I haven't really looked at mine outside yet, but now I will since I'll have something fun to look for. In the Botany lab however, no signs of flower stalks but there are 3 new pitchers on the plants. They've just come out of the fridge (4 degrees C and constant light), hopefully they'll put up some flowers this year. ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Wed Feb 16 20:32:38 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: ne cps jeramiah, did u get my message? plus anybody else have any cp plants that are native to the north east, please contact me. ----- Original Message ----- To: Cp@omnisterra.com > > Send Cp mailing list submissions to > Cp@omnisterra.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > Cp-request@omnisterra.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > Cp-owner@omnisterra.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Cp digest..." > > > CP Mailing list > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Question re: germination (caleb shaffer) > 2. re: new england cps (jon mungeam) > 3. Sarr, Dros, VT fen... or Nep ??? (o.marthaler@bluewin.ch) > 4. RE: Question re: germination (Chris Teichreb) > 5. Re: Great Article on John Philip - NECPS (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) > 6. RE: hi, im jon (jon mungeam) (Temple, Paul) > 7. more D. meristocaulis (bioexp@juno.com) > 8. Sterile Drosera hybrids (n.bellii@netzero.net) > 9. A Sure Sign of Spring..... (CMcdon0923@aol.com) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:23:52 -0600 > From: "caleb shaffer" > Subject: [CP] Question re: germination > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > Hi- > > I am hoping that I can get some advice on what to do with some cp seeds I > have. While I have been growing plants for a number of years, I am > attempting to grow from seed for the first time. I have had two plastic > bags with seeds for S. flava (Schnell Clone) and S. rubra ssp. gulfensis in > the fridge for about 6 months now. My question is how I should go about > germinating them. Would they still be good seeds since they have been in > the fridge? And, if so, would I still need to cold stratify them (they were > just in plastic bags and no growing medium)? > > Thank you for any help you can provide! > > Caleb > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 07:15:32 +0800 > From: "jon mungeam" > Subject: [CP] re: new england cps > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050215231532.C0FAF1027BE@ws3.hk5.outblaze.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thanks Jeremiah you are sure a nice person, i would be able to send > you the postage, was it $3.85? also i would need the adress to send > it to, also have you had any experince with the species that i > metioned and their conpatibilty with cold weather bog gardens? and > one more thing, ive never had plants sent to me, so how do they > survive being shipped in a box for so long? > > thanks, jon > > p.s sorry for all the qestions! > > p.p.s. i love all cps but i would have to say that my favs are the > pitcher plants that i can keep in my (soon to be) bog garden, i > just cant wait to see them growing in my backyard! all i have to do > is keep them alive intill i can get them out there! i hope i can do > it! > -- > _______________________________________________ > Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 00:13:15 +0100 > From: o.marthaler@bluewin.ch > Subject: [CP] Sarr, Dros, VT fen... or Nep ??? > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <4202CD28000671D5@mssazhb-int.msg.bluewin.ch> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" > > > reference: 4. New photos at Galleria Carnivora (Barry Rice) in the latest > issue of the forum > > > Hi Barry, > > Super photos indeed... but am I confused or the photo labelled > > "Sarracenia, Drosera, VT fen" in your Oct.-Nov Galleria additions rather > shows a nepenthes ? > > Maybe it was a joke I failed to understand :) > > Cheers, > > OL > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:21:11 -0800 > From: "Chris Teichreb" > Subject: RE: [CP] Question re: germination > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > Hi Caleb, > > John B. maintains good instructions on germinating various cp seed on the > ICPS website. I'd recommend visiting there for more detailed advice. Of > course, I'm assuming the information is still there, I haven't check for a > while! > > If you've had them stored dry in the fridge, they should be fine. I've > germinated some seed that was over 10 years old with good success. The key > when storing it is to keep it cool and dry. > > For germinating, they will require a cool, moist period of stratification. > I generally try to give all Sarracenia seed about a month of stratification. > Opinions will vary on the length. Since it is approaching spring, you may > want to wait until risks of hard frosts pass (or bring in the pots at > night), and direct sow the seed onto soil mix and leave outside to let it > germinate on its own. > > The other option I usually use is to place the seed in between some moist > (not soaking wet) paper towel, place in a ziploc, and put it in the fridge > for a month. You'll usually notice lots of mould at the end of the month, > but Sarr seed seems to be pretty resistant to it. Place on the surface of > your soil, and most will germinate within another month. Wait 3-5 years for > flowering! > > Cheers! > > Chris > > > Hi- > > > > I am hoping that I can get some advice on what to do with some cp > > seeds I have. While I have been growing plants for a number of > > years, I am attempting to grow from seed for the first time. I > > have had two plastic bags with seeds for S. flava (Schnell > > Clone) and S. rubra ssp. gulfensis in the fridge for about 6 > > months now. My question is how I should go about germinating > > them. Would they still be good seeds since they have been in the > > fridge? And, if so, would I still need to cold stratify them > > (they were just in plastic bags and no growing medium)? > > > > Thank you for any help you can provide! > > > > Caleb > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cp mailing list > > Cp@omnisterra.com > > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:14:16 EST > From: HmrTheHrmt@aol.com > Subject: Re: [CP] Great Article on John Philip - NECPS > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <12f.56fac510.2f43f868@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > Could be, but I'll never know. To register to read it I had to fill out a > registration form, and as a general rule, I never fill such things out. > > In a message dated 2/14/2005 7:56:30 PM Pacific Standard Time, > stephenwd@sbcglobal.net writes: > > http://www.projo.com/garden/content/projo_20050213_plants.1d3388b.html on > John Philip from the NECPS. > > > > Well done John! > > > > > > > > TTFN > > > Hamir the Hermit > > > "And there you have another example of how, > while life for you is getting bigger and better, > for someone else in the world, > it's getting smaller and worse." > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:04:49 -0000 > From: "Temple, Paul" > Subject: [CP] RE: hi, im jon (jon mungeam) > To: "'Cp@omnisterra.com'" > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain > > I'm Paul Temple and at 17 I had a thirst for propagation too! > > Oops - sorry, couldn't resist the opportunity to maintain a topic that > wasn't about red-green rosetty sprouting things . Regrets to fuddy duddys > who think this was too off topic!. > > Regards > > Paul > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:38:07 GMT > From: "bioexp@juno.com" > Subject: [CP] more D. meristocaulis > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050216.083905.11014.67412@webmail26.nyc.untd.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > > Hi all, > There are now 3 more photos of seedling D. meristocaulis on the Los > Angeles CP Society web site www.geocities.com/lacps . You can click > on this link to go directly to the page: > http://www.geocities.com/lacps//Dmeristocaulis.html > These 3 new later stage shots are of the seed germinating which at > first fooled me because it was standing propped up on end when it > germinated. As you can see the seed leaves are still hidden > (*crypto*cotylar) within the seed. This seedling has already fed, > and I removed the remains. Fernando, Can you write something for Ed > to put up on the page? I can, but not sure you will agree with all > I think. > Ivan Snyder > Hermosa Beach > California > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. > Now includes pop-up blocker! > Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 18:42:08 GMT > From: "n.bellii@netzero.net" > Subject: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050216.104236.15672.70344@webmail26.lax.untd.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > > Hello, > > I've been looking through my some of my cp books, and can't find > information about sterile Drosera hybrids. > > Do most Drosera hybrids set sterile seeds or no seed at all? > > Ivan Snyders article in the June 2003 CPN, mentions Drosera x > obovata as an example of a hybrid that should not be able to set > seed, because of non viable pollen, but also states this same > hybrid as not ever being documented to produce viable seeds. The > same article Ivan mentions finding underdeveloped seeds in small > amounts, at natural sites of this hybrid. > > How does formation of non-viable seed take place, in plants that > should not be able to set seed at all? > > Thank you, > Steven Stewart > Florida, USA > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:52:55 -0500 > From: CMcdon0923@aol.com > Subject: [CP] A Sure Sign of Spring..... > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <50961093.418AFDB8.0A2C07BE@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Just walked down to the greenhouse to see how everyone was doing, > and I noticed that one of my S. leucophylla is sending up a flower > scape. > > Craig > Frisco, TX > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > End of Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 16 > ********************************** -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 16 20:41:15 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Sure Sign of Spring My Sarrs are sending up their flower stalks here in Southern Calif. as well. A bit earlier than usual. Made me have to do my usual cleaning sooner than I would have. In a message dated 2/16/2005 5:29:37 PM Pacific Standard Time, AppleCakeTeaRoom@aol.com writes: "Just walked down to the greenhouse to see how everyone was doing, and I noticed that one of my S. leucophylla is sending up a flower scape." That's great news! I haven't really looked at mine outside yet, but now I will since I'll have something fun to look for. In the Botany lab however, no signs of flower stalks but there are 3 new pitchers on the plants. They've just come out of the fridge (4 degrees C and constant light), hopefully they'll put up some flowers this year. TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 16 20:57:27 2005 Subject: [CP] Out of Zone CPs/Re Drosera hybrid I'm assuming you mean 'naturalized.' I don't know of any personally, myself, though I have heard that there are naturalized stands of VFT in northern florida, a stand of D. capensis in California, and Sarracenia and VFT populations naturalized in Merry Olde England. I'm sure there are many, many more than that. In a message dated 2/16/2005 1:40:40 PM Pacific Standard Time, treaqum1@yahoo.com writes: Hey Everyone, Does anyone know of an naturalised out of zone cps. Keyword is naturized as in living and reproducing in a natural bog or something without your help. If so plese tell me. Not speciefics but generalizations. Like I know of naturized S. purpurea ssp. venosa var. burkeii and S. leucophylla here in NE Florida. Counties are generally not needed but if you have them that would be okay as long as you think no one will find the plants. I am curious about whether or not any other non-natives have been naturized out of zone. What species was htat in the Pine Barrens? TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: stephenwd at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Davis) Date: Wed Feb 16 22:30:42 2005 Subject: [CP] VFT might become NC's official carnivorous plant! I ran across this article on North Carolina naming the VFT as their state carnivorous plant. The article is rather funny too. No registration required as of today. Don't know what happens with this online paper after it goes into archives. http://www.wilmingtonstar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050216/EDITORIAL/ 502160324 Stephen Davis stephenwd@sbcglobal.net www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com ################### From: aarongunnar at sbcglobal.net (Aaron Carlson) Date: Thu Feb 17 04:25:31 2005 Subject: [CP] Guess the Hybrid Sarracenia I created this little web page awhile ago, but never posted it to this list. Just curious as to what everyone thinks the possible parents of these hybrids are. Thanks in advance. ################### From: fleischi01 at gmx.de (Andreas Fleischmann) Date: Thu Feb 17 06:06:41 2005 Subject: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids Hi all! The reason why some Drosera hybrids are sterile is the fact, that -due to the chromosome set being a mixed number of both parents' sets- they sometimes cannot have a proper meiosis, i.e. half part of the chromosomes cannot be divided up for the gametes. That's the case if the hybrid plant had an irregular number of diploid chromosomes (i.e. 2n = 15), which cannot be divided to the haploid set.(the haploid chromosome number in this case would be n = 7.5!). The result is either no seed set at all or the development of seeds with unviable embryos ("empty seeds"). That's the case in AFAIK (all???) D. x obovata, D. x beleziana, D. x hybrida, D. x anglica. But sometimes the chromosome set may double (or get to a even higher-ploid set) due to spontaneous mutation. Now the chromosomes can fullfill a proper meiosis again (in our case, the chromosome set would be 4n = 30, which can be divided to a set of 2n = 15 in the first part of meiosis). This should result into seeds containig a viable embryo. As some 60-80% of all flowering plants occuring today are assumed to be of hybridogenous origin, it's not surprising that some Drosera species are now known to have evolved from hybrids, too. I.e. D. anglica is a polyploid form of D. x anglica (D. linearis x rotundifolia), D.tokaiensis (or D. x tokaiensis, as some people still consider this one being more a natural hybrid than of own specific rank) (= D. spatulata x rotundifolia) are 2 of the more well-know examples, but D.ramentacea and D.collinsiae are considered to be of hybrid origin, too. I'm sure you will hear more on this topic here from Ivan Snyder, the "master of hybridizing Drosera"! ;-) The was a nice summary on Drosera hybrids from Martin Cheek in Kew magazine some years ago, too. All the best, Andreas -- Lassen Sie Ihren Gedanken freien Lauf... z.B. per FreeSMS GMX bietet bis zu 100 FreeSMS/Monat: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/mail ################### From: n.bellii at netzero.net (n.bellii@netzero.net) Date: Thu Feb 17 07:00:56 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: New photos at Galleria Carnivora (Barry Rice) Barry, If you listed price and availability for some of your plants, the quality of your photos would surely entice a few customers. I know when I look at the Gallery I keep certain favorites in mind for the future. I would bet more than one beginner cper has gotten "hooked" by entering your site. Steven Stewart Florida, USA ################### From: Jeremiahsplants at adelphia.net (Jeremiah Harris) Date: Thu Feb 17 09:52:58 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: ne cps Hello Well I got one then I replied is there another one I should now about? thanks -Jeremiah- ________________________________________________________ Colorado Carnivorous Plant Society Jeremiah Harris 712 Columbia Rd Colorado Springs CO 80904 (719)-578-8123 AIM: Nepenthesrajah jeremiahsplants@adelphia.net http://www.geocities.com/colorado_carnivorousplantsociety/ ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 9:32 PM jeramiah, did u get my message? plus anybody else have any cp plants that are native to the north east, please contact me. ----- Original Message ----- To: Cp@omnisterra.com > > Send Cp mailing list submissions to > Cp@omnisterra.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > Cp-request@omnisterra.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > Cp-owner@omnisterra.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Cp digest..." > > > CP Mailing list > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Question re: germination (caleb shaffer) > 2. re: new england cps (jon mungeam) > 3. Sarr, Dros, VT fen... or Nep ??? (o.marthaler@bluewin.ch) > 4. RE: Question re: germination (Chris Teichreb) > 5. Re: Great Article on John Philip - NECPS (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) > 6. RE: hi, im jon (jon mungeam) (Temple, Paul) > 7. more D. meristocaulis (bioexp@juno.com) > 8. Sterile Drosera hybrids (n.bellii@netzero.net) > 9. A Sure Sign of Spring..... (CMcdon0923@aol.com) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:23:52 -0600 > From: "caleb shaffer" > Subject: [CP] Question re: germination > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > Hi- > > I am hoping that I can get some advice on what to do with some cp seeds I > have. While I have been growing plants for a number of years, I am > attempting to grow from seed for the first time. I have had two plastic > bags with seeds for S. flava (Schnell Clone) and S. rubra ssp. gulfensis in > the fridge for about 6 months now. My question is how I should go about > germinating them. Would they still be good seeds since they have been in > the fridge? And, if so, would I still need to cold stratify them (they were > just in plastic bags and no growing medium)? > > Thank you for any help you can provide! > > Caleb > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 07:15:32 +0800 > From: "jon mungeam" > Subject: [CP] re: new england cps > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050215231532.C0FAF1027BE@ws3.hk5.outblaze.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thanks Jeremiah you are sure a nice person, i would be able to send > you the postage, was it $3.85? also i would need the adress to send > it to, also have you had any experince with the species that i > metioned and their conpatibilty with cold weather bog gardens? and > one more thing, ive never had plants sent to me, so how do they > survive being shipped in a box for so long? > > thanks, jon > > p.s sorry for all the qestions! > > p.p.s. i love all cps but i would have to say that my favs are the > pitcher plants that i can keep in my (soon to be) bog garden, i > just cant wait to see them growing in my backyard! all i have to do > is keep them alive intill i can get them out there! i hope i can do > it! > -- > _______________________________________________ > Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 00:13:15 +0100 > From: o.marthaler@bluewin.ch > Subject: [CP] Sarr, Dros, VT fen... or Nep ??? > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <4202CD28000671D5@mssazhb-int.msg.bluewin.ch> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" > > > reference: 4. New photos at Galleria Carnivora (Barry Rice) in the latest > issue of the forum > > > Hi Barry, > > Super photos indeed... but am I confused or the photo labelled > > "Sarracenia, Drosera, VT fen" in your Oct.-Nov Galleria additions rather > shows a nepenthes ? > > Maybe it was a joke I failed to understand :) > > Cheers, > > OL > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:21:11 -0800 > From: "Chris Teichreb" > Subject: RE: [CP] Question re: germination > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > Hi Caleb, > > John B. maintains good instructions on germinating various cp seed on the > ICPS website. I'd recommend visiting there for more detailed advice. Of > course, I'm assuming the information is still there, I haven't check for a > while! > > If you've had them stored dry in the fridge, they should be fine. I've > germinated some seed that was over 10 years old with good success. The key > when storing it is to keep it cool and dry. > > For germinating, they will require a cool, moist period of stratification. > I generally try to give all Sarracenia seed about a month of stratification. > Opinions will vary on the length. Since it is approaching spring, you may > want to wait until risks of hard frosts pass (or bring in the pots at > night), and direct sow the seed onto soil mix and leave outside to let it > germinate on its own. > > The other option I usually use is to place the seed in between some moist > (not soaking wet) paper towel, place in a ziploc, and put it in the fridge > for a month. You'll usually notice lots of mould at the end of the month, > but Sarr seed seems to be pretty resistant to it. Place on the surface of > your soil, and most will germinate within another month. Wait 3-5 years for > flowering! > > Cheers! > > Chris > > > Hi- > > > > I am hoping that I can get some advice on what to do with some cp > > seeds I have. While I have been growing plants for a number of > > years, I am attempting to grow from seed for the first time. I > > have had two plastic bags with seeds for S. flava (Schnell > > Clone) and S. rubra ssp. gulfensis in the fridge for about 6 > > months now. My question is how I should go about germinating > > them. Would they still be good seeds since they have been in the > > fridge? And, if so, would I still need to cold stratify them > > (they were just in plastic bags and no growing medium)? > > > > Thank you for any help you can provide! > > > > Caleb > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cp mailing list > > Cp@omnisterra.com > > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:14:16 EST > From: HmrTheHrmt@aol.com > Subject: Re: [CP] Great Article on John Philip - NECPS > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <12f.56fac510.2f43f868@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > Could be, but I'll never know. To register to read it I had to fill out a > registration form, and as a general rule, I never fill such things out. > > In a message dated 2/14/2005 7:56:30 PM Pacific Standard Time, > stephenwd@sbcglobal.net writes: > > http://www.projo.com/garden/content/projo_20050213_plants.1d3388b.html on > John Philip from the NECPS. > > > > Well done John! > > > > > > > > TTFN > > > Hamir the Hermit > > > "And there you have another example of how, > while life for you is getting bigger and better, > for someone else in the world, > it's getting smaller and worse." > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:04:49 -0000 > From: "Temple, Paul" > Subject: [CP] RE: hi, im jon (jon mungeam) > To: "'Cp@omnisterra.com'" > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain > > I'm Paul Temple and at 17 I had a thirst for propagation too! > > Oops - sorry, couldn't resist the opportunity to maintain a topic that > wasn't about red-green rosetty sprouting things . Regrets to fuddy duddys > who think this was too off topic!. > > Regards > > Paul > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:38:07 GMT > From: "bioexp@juno.com" > Subject: [CP] more D. meristocaulis > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050216.083905.11014.67412@webmail26.nyc.untd.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > > Hi all, > There are now 3 more photos of seedling D. meristocaulis on the Los > Angeles CP Society web site www.geocities.com/lacps . You can click > on this link to go directly to the page: > http://www.geocities.com/lacps//Dmeristocaulis.html > These 3 new later stage shots are of the seed germinating which at > first fooled me because it was standing propped up on end when it > germinated. As you can see the seed leaves are still hidden > (*crypto*cotylar) within the seed. This seedling has already fed, > and I removed the remains. Fernando, Can you write something for Ed > to put up on the page? I can, but not sure you will agree with all > I think. > Ivan Snyder > Hermosa Beach > California > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. > Now includes pop-up blocker! > Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 18:42:08 GMT > From: "n.bellii@netzero.net" > Subject: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050216.104236.15672.70344@webmail26.lax.untd.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > > Hello, > > I've been looking through my some of my cp books, and can't find > information about sterile Drosera hybrids. > > Do most Drosera hybrids set sterile seeds or no seed at all? > > Ivan Snyders article in the June 2003 CPN, mentions Drosera x > obovata as an example of a hybrid that should not be able to set > seed, because of non viable pollen, but also states this same > hybrid as not ever being documented to produce viable seeds. The > same article Ivan mentions finding underdeveloped seeds in small > amounts, at natural sites of this hybrid. > > How does formation of non-viable seed take place, in plants that > should not be able to set seed at all? > > Thank you, > Steven Stewart > Florida, USA > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:52:55 -0500 > From: CMcdon0923@aol.com > Subject: [CP] A Sure Sign of Spring..... > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <50961093.418AFDB8.0A2C07BE@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Just walked down to the greenhouse to see how everyone was doing, > and I noticed that one of my S. leucophylla is sending up a flower > scape. > > Craig > Frisco, TX > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > End of Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 16 > ********************************** -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 2/14/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 2/14/2005 ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Thu Feb 17 10:00:52 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: New photos at Galleria Carnivora Hi Steven, Ah, with the exception of Utricularia calycifida cultivars, I don't sell plants. I leave that to others. I just take photos! Cheers Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. FAQ--Author http://www.sarracenia.com/faq.html Galleria Carnivora--Curator http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/galleria.html > From: "n.bellii@netzero.net" > Subject: [CP] RE: New photos at Galleria Carnivora (Barry Rice) > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050217.065922.4264.83785@webmail21.lax.untd.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > > > Barry, > > If you listed price and availability for some of your plants, > the quality of your photos would surely entice a few > customers. I know when I look at the Gallery I keep certain > favorites in mind for the future. I would bet more than one > beginner cper has gotten "hooked" by entering your site. > > Steven Stewart > Florida, USA ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Thu Feb 17 10:13:52 2005 Subject: [CP] Non-native CP plantings Hey Tre, Oh, man, there are lots of non-native CP plantings. A few highlights off the top of my head: **S. purpurea in Ireland **More than 20 species in Mendocino County, CA. **Various species in Butterfly Valley, CA, and Del Norte County, CA. **VFTs in Florida **Several species including S. rubra and S. minor in the Pine Barrens **Aldrovanda being intentionally released at various sites in eastern USA (an interesting phenomenon and study in human psychology; those doing it are rationalizing their actions a number of ways, my favorite being that "someone will eventually do it, and even though it is possibly a bad thing it might as well be me doing it!") **U. inflata in Washington, where it may be declared a noxious weed. **S. purpurea in Arizona (probably extirpated by now) **S. flava in New Zealand, as well as other species. **U. gibba in Hawai'i. Etc etc etc. There is a subculture of carnivorous plant growers who are unfortunately pretty arrogant in feeling they can "augment" wildlands with non-native plantings. As a result of this and poaching, a lot of conservation workers tend to classify CPers as conservation-clueless. Please note that I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular; I'm just reporting on the attitudes of staff in Federal/state agencies and NGOs in the USA. So no flames would be appreciated! Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Director of Conservation Programs The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:39:53 -0800 (PST) > From: Tre Bond > Subject: [CP] Out of Zone CPs/Re Drosera hybrid > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050216213953.96825.qmail@web53309.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hey Everyone, > Does anyone know of an naturalised out of zone cps. Keyword > is naturized as in living and reproducing in a natural bog or > something without your help. If so plese tell me. Not > speciefics but generalizations. Like I know of naturized S. > purpurea ssp. venosa var. burkeii and S. leucophylla here in > NE Florida. Counties are generally not needed but if you > have them that would be okay as long as you think no one will > find the plants. I am curious about whether or not any other > non-natives have been naturized out of zone. What species > was htat in the Pine Barrens? ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Thu Feb 17 11:30:31 2005 Subject: [CP] VFT might become NC's official carnivorous plant! Thanks Steph! I have a buddy who just came back that lived in NC for past 9 yrs. I sure he would love to hear this? I think NC should snap at this since it is the most recognized native plant in NC,then other wildflowers. Here in MD the most recognized CP is S. purpurea,but it is not our state wildflower. Your link was broked,but I copied and pasted it in address bar. And saved the link incase any one wants to read it some time? Wolf ----Original Message Follows---- Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" I ran across this article on North Carolina naming the VFT as their state carnivorous plant. The article is rather funny too. No registration required as of today. Don't know what happens with this online paper after it goes into archives. http://www.wilmingtonstar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050216/EDITORIAL/ 502160324 Stephen Davis stephenwd@sbcglobal.net www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Thu Feb 17 11:31:52 2005 Subject: [CP] Non-native CP plantings Since all the parts of Arizona I've seen are desert, I'd think the general environment would extirpate any S. purpurea in existence. In a message dated 2/17/2005 10:14:19 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, bamrice@ucdavis.edu writes: **S. purpurea in Arizona (probably extirpated by now) TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Thu Feb 17 12:11:43 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 18 Hey Hamir, You're only thinking desert. You forget the sky islands and the Mogollon Rim. Both have perennial acid wetlands that would be quite amenable areas. Remember that U. macrorhiza and U. minor both occur in Arizona: http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/g111.html Cheers Barry > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 14:31:37 EST > From: HmrTheHrmt@aol.com > Subject: Re: [CP] Non-native CP plantings > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <1c0.2388459c.2f464b19@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > Since all the parts of Arizona I've seen are desert, I'd > think the general environment would extirpate any S. purpurea > in existence. > > > In a message dated 2/17/2005 10:14:19 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > bamrice@ucdavis.edu writes: > > **S. purpurea in Arizona (probably extirpated by now) ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Thu Feb 17 13:14:19 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 18 Sky islands are... what? Mountain tops or mesas that get significantly more rain than the lowlands? Those areas in the photos look pretty far removed from civilization, can't imagine anyone took the effort to drag S. purpurea seeds up there... (and even less likely whole plants to transplant). We CP growers can be a pretty determined bunch, I guess. In a message dated 2/17/2005 12:11:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, bamrice@ucdavis.edu writes: Hey Hamir, You're only thinking desert. You forget the sky islands and the Mogollon Rim. Both have perennial acid wetlands that would be quite amenable areas. Remember that U. macrorhiza and U. minor both occur in Arizona: http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/g111.html Cheers Barry TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: walterg at nauticom.net (Walter Greenwood) Date: Thu Feb 17 15:24:18 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings I believe there is a colony of VFTs in central Pennsylvania, too. (I didn't do it - honest!) -WG ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Thu Feb 17 16:24:26 2005 Subject: [CP] RE:out of zone Yes I meant 'Naturalized'. I did not count the VFTs in Flrida because that is common knowledge but I did not know of anyothers besides the ones here in NE Florida ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Thu Feb 17 16:32:56 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Non-native CP plantings Dear Tre, There could be some _Sarracenia_ hybrids involving _S. flava, S. purpurea venosa_ and _S. oreophila_ in Bloomsburg, PA. (I didn't do it either, BTW!) Not sure about the VFT. Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of Walter Greenwood Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 6:24 PM I believe there is a colony of VFTs in central Pennsylvania, too. (I didn't do it - honest!) -WG ################### From: Bluemounttc at aol.com (Bluemounttc@aol.com) Date: Fri Feb 18 03:36:36 2005 Subject: [CP] Signs of Spring; Tissue Culture of CP'S While it is icy and snowy outside today here in Maryland, I am happy to say I have Sarracenia purpurea, S. leucophylla 'Tarnok', and lots of flytraps sending up flower stalks in my propagation house. Ah, I love this time of year. Is anyone else in this group doing tissue culture of CP's? I'd love to network with others doing similar work as me. Regards, Bonnie Collins Monkton, Maryland ################### From: hkobayashi4 at hotmail.com (Hideka Kobayashi) Date: Fri Feb 18 06:38:47 2005 Subject: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids I think the key here is “some.” But then why can a hybrid of two species with equal chromosome numbers be sterile? The sterility of such hybrids may stem from the difference in genomic background of parental species, rather than chromosome numbers. In other words, chromosomes of one parent may not pair well with ones from the other parent. I wouldn’t personally call this ( a simple increase in the number of chormosomes) a “mutation.” There could have been, but is there any change in gene(s) always or usually associated with polyploidization? Also, production of unreduced gametes may be one reason why triploids and such can produce viable seeds. Hideka ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Fri Feb 18 07:01:27 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings I've written a note previously published in CPN about a bog near Vancouver with several introduced and naturalized species. I've also submitted an article on Darlingtonia introduction on Vancouver Island (though plants haven't reached maturity yet). I know of a couple other introduced populations that have successfully naturalized bogs around Vancouver and Washington. Seems to be something we as humans are drawn into doing; introducing flora/fauna into places it shouldn't be! Chris ################### From: hpulley at rogers.com (Harry Pulley) Date: Fri Feb 18 07:24:01 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings Overall this is one of the cases where I find it funny how we separate the activities of man from the activies of nature. If a bird eats a seed and migrates a long distance, dropping it far from home where it flourishes by chance, is it now an alien species? This has been happening for millions of years. Somehow, when this happens either accidentally or on purpose in connection with humans, we call it the wanton destruction of native ecosystems. Species have been moved and made extinct since the beginning of life on the planet. Humans are particularly good at it but it is nothing new and certainly nothing modern. I commend people for conservation efforts and I think it is a good idea to only plant native species in your outdoor garden anyways; that way you don't need to offer them special winter protection. Eg. if I plant on S. purpurea, D. rotundiflora and D. intermedia then not only am I not introducing alien species, but they'll grow fine since my yard is in their native zone! There is a nice native plant nursery around here offering not just CPs but many others which is a nice way to garden. Harry Pulley Guelph, Ontario, Canada ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Fri Feb 18 09:59:16 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Drosera hybrids Hello Steven, Andreas, and all, I must warn that the following reply may prove extraordinarily technical. Only those initiated in such apocrypha should continue. Most sterile hybrid sundews do not set seed at all Steven. Although one common natural hybrid, triploid D. x obovata, may produce a few *apparently* well formed seed. In my article I cite other papers that tell, "all North American Drosera hybrids are sterile". Experimentation proved that in a rare case tetraploid D. x obovata are at least slightly fertile. I'll try to explain how the common sterile triploid is able to produce a few nonviable seed: As Schnell pointed out, the sterile plant's pollen grains contain no starch and so are unable to grow pollen tubes. Perhaps a few do cantain some starch? Still, even if fertilization is achieved, there is that chromosome mismatch as Andreas elaborated. And remember, chromosome cross-over (Chiasmata) does not occur at fertilization; only at meiosis. Hope that helps! Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California >I've been looking through my some of my cp books, and can't find information about sterile Drosera hybrids. Do most Drosera hybrids set sterile seeds or no seed at all? Ivan Snyders article in the June 2003 CPN, mentions Drosera x obovata as an example of a hybrid that should not be able to set seed, because of non viable pollen, but also states this same hybrid as not ever being documented to produce viable seeds. The same article Ivan mentions finding underdeveloped seeds in small amounts, at natural sites of this hybrid. How does formation of non-viable seed take place, in plants that should not be able to set seed at all? Thank you, Steven Stewart Florida, USA ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Fri Feb 18 12:36:50 2005 Subject: [CP] re:necps thanks Jeremiah, ill be sending out postage soon! -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Fri Feb 18 12:38:38 2005 Subject: [CP] Arizona sky islands Hi Hamir, Yes, "sky islands" is a term that refers to high elevation mountains in the desert southwest. These mountaintops may be only a few tens of miles from other mountains, but since they are separated by desert lowlands, the mountaintops (which may be a climate more similar to Canada) has isolated ecosystems. Speciation occurs, and local endemic species or taxa can result. Even though sites can be remote, people are determined, as you note. This makes it even more difficult to figure out which introductions are anthropogenic in origin. In the case I'm talking about in Arizona, the original perpetrator admited to me what he had done. I visited the site a few times, but was never able to find the Sarracenia. Later! Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Director of Conservation Programs The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org > Sky islands are... what? Mountain tops or mesas that get > significantly more rain than the lowlands? Those areas in > the photos look pretty far removed from civilization, can't > imagine anyone took the effort to drag S. purpurea seeds up > there... (and even less likely whole plants to transplant). > We CP growers can be a pretty determined bunch, I guess. > > In a message dated 2/17/2005 12:11:54 P.M. Pacific Standard > Time, bamrice@ucdavis.edu writes: > > Hey Hamir, > > You're only thinking desert. You forget the sky islands and > the Mogollon Rim. Both have perennial acid wetlands that > would be quite amenable areas. > Remember that U. macrorhiza and U. minor both occur in Arizona: > http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/g111.html ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Fri Feb 18 13:01:08 2005 Subject: [CP] Arizona sky islands wow sarracenia in arizona? i thought someone was pulling my leg. --- Barry Rice wrote: > > Hi Hamir, > > Yes, "sky islands" is a term that refers to high > elevation mountains in the > desert southwest. These mountaintops may be only a > few tens of miles from > other mountains, but since they are separated by > desert lowlands, the > mountaintops (which may be a climate more similar to > Canada) has isolated > ecosystems. Speciation occurs, and local endemic > species or taxa can result. > > Even though sites can be remote, people are > determined, as you note. This > makes it even more difficult to figure out which > introductions are > anthropogenic in origin. In the case I'm talking > about in Arizona, the > original perpetrator admited to me what he had done. > I visited the site a > few times, but was never able to find the > Sarracenia. > > Later! > > Barry > > Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. > Director of Conservation Programs > The International Carnivorous Plant Society > http://www.carnivorousplants.org > > > Sky islands are... what? Mountain tops or mesas > that get > > significantly more rain than the lowlands? Those > areas in > > the photos look pretty far removed from > civilization, can't > > imagine anyone took the effort to drag S. > purpurea seeds up > > there... (and even less likely whole plants to > transplant). > > We CP growers can be a pretty determined bunch, I > guess. > > > > In a message dated 2/17/2005 12:11:54 P.M. Pacific > Standard > > Time, bamrice@ucdavis.edu writes: > > > > Hey Hamir, > > > > You're only thinking desert. You forget the sky > islands and > > the Mogollon Rim. Both have perennial acid > wetlands that > > would be quite amenable areas. > > Remember that U. macrorhiza and U. minor both > occur in Arizona: > > http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/g111.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Fri Feb 18 16:54:04 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings Not necessarily "shouldn't" because if it grows there, it obviously can be there. It just "isn't" in our current version of space/time. Only our judgements are saying whether a plant "should" or "shouldn't" be there. And that is the crux of the biscuit as there are some people whose opinion it is that as long as an organism can survive in a certain environment, it "should" be there, whilst others maintain that if a plant isn't currently there, it "shouldn't" be there. A real Star Trek "Prime Directive" dilemma. But you do hit the nail on the head by pointing out how it seems to be a part of human nature to eliminate organisms from areas where they are happily existing, and in other cases inserting them into areas where they previously haven't been. I still find it amusing when I see home developments in Southern California where they are trying to mimic Florida landscaping, and then I go to Florida and I see developments where they are trying to make them look like the American Southwest! In a message dated 2/18/2005 7:02:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, cteichreb@hotmail.com writes: Seems to be something we as humans are drawn into doing; introducing flora/fauna into places it shouldn't be! TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: pbunch at cox.net (Phil Bunch) Date: Fri Feb 18 17:04:26 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings The problem becomes: who are we to introduce organisms into "natural" habitats? Obviously we can do so but an unfortunate aspect of humans is that we are very good at doing things but very poor at understanding the consequences of the things we chose to do. Phil Bunch -----Original Message----- Of HmrTheHrmt@aol.com Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 4:54 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Not necessarily "shouldn't" because if it grows there, it obviously can be there. It just "isn't" in our current version of space/time. Only our judgements are saying whether a plant "should" or "shouldn't" be there. And that is the crux of the biscuit as there are some people whose opinion it is that as long as an organism can survive in a certain environment, it "should" be there, whilst others maintain that if a plant isn't currently there, it "shouldn't" be there. A real Star Trek "Prime Directive" dilemma. But you do hit the nail on the head by pointing out how it seems to be a part of human nature to eliminate organisms from areas where they are happily existing, and in other cases inserting them into areas where they previously haven't been. I still find it amusing when I see home developments in Southern California where they are trying to mimic Florida landscaping, and then I go to Florida and I see developments where they are trying to make them look like the American Southwest! In a message dated 2/18/2005 7:02:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, cteichreb@hotmail.com writes: Seems to be something we as humans are drawn into doing; introducing flora/fauna into places it shouldn't be! TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.0.0 - Release Date: 2/18/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.0.0 - Release Date: 2/18/2005 ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Fri Feb 18 19:11:29 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings I think the question is not so much "who" we are so much as "what." And that's part of the Ecosystem that the planet earth has developed at this point in its existence. As has been pointed out, organisms have been added to and removed from habitats since time began. Terming something "natural" or "unnatural" simply because it's done by humans is a moral judgement. Organisms have been going extinct and new ones coming into being for millions and millions of years, and there have been a number of major extinction events in earth's history with a subsequent flourishing of new species afterwards. In the history of the planet, what we do today will be irrelevant in a billion years. Whether we are still here or not, whether we've turned the planet into a radioactive dustball or not, the planet will eventually fall into the sun, or get burned up in a supernova, or thrown off into the void of space to drift around as a big snowball. To our immediate descendants what we do will matter a great deal because soon they will never get the chance to see a great ape or a black panther, just as I'll never get to see a dodo or a passenger pigeon. In a message dated 2/18/2005 5:05:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, pbunch@cox.net writes: The problem becomes: who are we to introduce organisms into "natural" habitats? Obviously we can do so but an unfortunate aspect of humans is that we are very good at doing things but very poor at understanding the consequences of the things we chose to do. TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: pbunch at cox.net (Phil Bunch) Date: Sat Feb 19 07:12:26 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings Good and bad, natural and unnatural are indeed human concepts. They involve choice. As members of both social and non-human biological communities it is incumbent on us to make wise and compassionate choices. Wisdom is much under rated of late. Phil -----Original Message----- Of HmrTheHrmt@aol.com Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 7:11 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com I think the question is not so much "who" we are so much as "what." And that's part of the Ecosystem that the planet earth has developed at this point in its existence. As has been pointed out, organisms have been added to and removed from habitats since time began. Terming something "natural" or "unnatural" simply because it's done by humans is a moral judgement. Organisms have been going extinct and new ones coming into being for millions and millions of years, and there have been a number of major extinction events in earth's history with a subsequent flourishing of new species afterwards. In the history of the planet, what we do today will be irrelevant in a billion years. Whether we are still here or not, whether we've turned the planet into a radioactive dustball or not, the planet will eventually fall into the sun, or get burned up in a supernova, or thrown off into the void of space to drift around as a big snowball. To our immediate descendants what we do will matter a great deal because soon they will never get the chance to see a great ape or a black panther, just as I'll never get to see a dodo or a passenger pigeon. In a message dated 2/18/2005 5:05:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, pbunch@cox.net writes: The problem becomes: who are we to introduce organisms into "natural" habitats? Obviously we can do so but an unfortunate aspect of humans is that we are very good at doing things but very poor at understanding the consequences of the things we chose to do. TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.0.0 - Release Date: 2/18/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.0.0 - Release Date: 2/18/2005 ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Sat Feb 19 07:15:40 2005 Subject: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids Dear OL and Steven, I don't know the direct answer to this question, but I do know that not all flowers will produce non-viable seed, most sterile hybrids produce nothing. It seems that sometimes, while the pollen will not be viable or useable, it can still induce a reaction in the female flower. Whether or not this can also help to cause empty seed to develop, I'm not sure. The empty seeds are so small that they are like dust, BTW. Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of o.marthaler@bluewin.ch Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 5:15 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Hi Steven, Not being a botanist at all, I will only mention to you my own and modest experience: Nearly three years ago in the spring, I collected a few droseras x obovatas (?)in a couple of bogs overhere in Western Switzerland, as a young friend of mine was doing a school research in botany about the carnivorous flora of our region. Collecting them was intended to make sure the plants he was studying were not dr. anglica, as the leaves did look quite similar indeed. So those plants later flowered at my place, and, while in the same conditions *definitely sure* dr. rotundifolia and dr. anglica produced seeds (viable, as I sowed them later and they germinated), those dr. obovatas also flowered, but produced NO seeds whatsoever! Thus we deduced they were x obovata indeed... But are ALL x obovata sterile in nature? Sorry we'll have to wait for more expert answers! Just my little brick on the wall! Cheers, OL btw: "your" nep. bical. sown in CH look splendid now ! Thanx again. >Message: 8 >Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 18:42:08 GMT >From: "n.bellii@netzero.net" >Subject: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids >To: Cp@omnisterra.com >Message-ID: <20050216.104236.15672.70344@webmail26.lax.untd.com> >Content-Type: text/plain > > >Hello, > >I've been looking through my some of my cp books, and can't find information >about sterile Drosera hybrids. > >Do most Drosera hybrids set sterile seeds or no seed at all? > >In an article, June 2003 CPN, Ivan Snyder mentions finding underdeveloped >seeds in small amounts, at natural sites of Drosera x obovata as >an example of a hybrid that should not be able to set seed, because of non >viable pollen, and also states this same hybrid as not ever being >documented to produce viable seeds. > >How does formation of non-viable seed take place, in plants that should >not be able to set seed at all? > >Thank you, >Steven Stewart >Florida, USA ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Sat Feb 19 07:33:40 2005 Subject: [CP] Guess the Hybrid Sarracenia Dear Aaron, Picking out the hybrid's parent is never easy, but here goes: http://home.petflytrap.com/users/sarracenia/newcamerapics/uncchybrid1.jpg This one is definitely _S. psittacina * S. flava_, F1 I believe. As for the rest, I think I'll just be mudding the waters further with comment... The guesses already mentioned in the links are what I am thinking of for most of these plants, without actually seeing them in person it is too difficult to tell. Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of Aaron Carlson Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 7:25 AM To: cp@omnisterra.com I created this little web page awhile ago, but never posted it to this list. Just curious as to what everyone thinks the possible parents of these hybrids are. Thanks in advance. http://home.petflytrap.com/users/sarracenia/unknowns.htm ################### From: n.bellii at netzero.net (n.bellii@netzero.net) Date: Sat Feb 19 08:04:48 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Drosera hybrids Thank you! OL, Andreas, Hideka & Ivan, You've given me a lot to think about. It would seem that attempting to "treat" or alter chomosomes in sterile seed from Drosera hybrids would be futile. The species or hybrid plants would need to be the target. OL - I'm glad to hear the Nepenthes bicalcarata "kids" are doing well!! Thank you all again, Steven Stewart Florida, USA ################### From: pyrzynskij at worldnet.att.net (Jim Pyrzynski) Date: Sat Feb 19 08:56:26 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings There is a similar ongoing discussion in the native orchid conference list because of the publication of book on wild orchid (temperate) cultivation. Temperate species of orchids are difficult to grow (at least with the current knowledge) and so cultivation is generally viewed as a no no. I took the liberty of cross posting Harry's comments since they were similar to the ones I expressed on that list. My comments on the subject follows: This is really part of an interesting philosophical question. Is man apart from nature and his (or her) actions interfering with nature or is man a part of nature and doing things that are part of ?his nature?? In addition to that, I find it interesting that ?conservation types? (and I am pro-conservation) are pro such things as establishing peregrine falcons in cities (we have them here in Omaha, Nebraska) even though I doubt they ever nested there because there were no suitable nesting sites before high rise buildings. Or the attempts at establishing alternate flocks of whooping cranes (e.g. over wintering in New Mexico) so as to ensure the continuation of the species in the event of a disastrous hurricane in the historical over wintering area in Texas. And there are other examples - the California Condor efforts, wolves, etc., to say nothing about things done to enhance hunting and fishing (turkeys, and of course nonnative species). Man affects his environment by just existing and breathing, too. Some species increase (e.g. the coyote?s range has expanded probably due to our suppression of the wolf) and some species decrease because of the pressures we put on the environment. I doubt if there is much ?wild? left in the eastern part of the country. We have a nature preserve nearby, virtually all of it was logged at one time, some of it farmed. At the time of Lewis and Clark?s expedition, the ridge tops were savannah, now they are rather heavily forested because of fire suppression. Interesting showy orchis grows in one area that was farmed for corn as recently as 50 years ago and apparently it is declining partly due to the regrowth of the forest. Some orchids thrive in roadside ditches just because of that disturbance. And I suppose one can be thankful for the efforts of man too. I doubt that we would still have Franklinia altamaha, a shrub once found in southeastern Georgia. It was last collected in 1790 but now it continues to grow in gardens. And we in Nebraska are fortunate to have fruit bearing American Chestnuts (Castanea dendata). They escaped the blight that ravaged (and continues to ravage) the species in it natural range because someone (John Sterling Morton, I presume) planted some on his estate, Arbor Lodge, now a state park. Let the discussion go on. Jim Pyrzynski ################### From: wildfyre at gmail.com (Bonnie Dodds) Date: Sat Feb 19 12:52:59 2005 Subject: [CP] Looking for Sarracenia I've been rebuilding my collection slowly but surely. However, one thing is really standing out. I don't have a single adult Sarracenia. I have a few very young seedlings and thats it. Does anyone have any Sarracenia they'd like to part with? I don't have much to trade except for some D. anglica and D. rotundifolia with location data, but my boyfriend has been promising me a late Valentines day gift .. so we'd be able to pay for them. Also, I'd love to find something that might bloom this year. He's never seen a Sarracenia flower before. =) Happy Growing! -Bonnie Anchorage, Alaska USA ################### From: sarracenia at blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Haines) Date: Sat Feb 19 13:07:33 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 19 RE: Non-native CP plantings I must say that I would not plant a plant from my own collection into the wilds. For 100's of year we have planted plants for personal good, food, or just looks (gardens). But as growers we do grow CP's out in gardens, which may be how some of these plants have come from as birds and other animals may taken seed from our gardens and then the rest is history. We also do not know if a plant ever lived in an area at one time or another due to the case that plants do not leave many fossils. Yes I know that some seed and bits can be kept for a long time in acid ( peat ) bogs, and are found from time to time, but has anyone found seed or pollen in the peat from 50, 100, 1000 years ago from small plants like drosera? So as I have never seen or read about a complete history of these places were Non-native CP have now started to be found. As long as there are no bugs that are rare or rare plants in the area, I can not see any harm in keeping the plant there. Remember we have dried out around 80% of land over time, so many bogs that would have had our CP's have gone. We need to have many areas with one type of CP in to save them from dyeing out completely. Best Wishes Alan ******************************** **For the best TV & Radio guide on your PC** http://accounts.digiguide.com/showcase.asp?p=1&r=17484 ******************************** ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 8:11 PM > Send Cp mailing list submissions to > Cp@omnisterra.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > Cp-request@omnisterra.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > Cp-owner@omnisterra.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Cp digest..." > > > CP Mailing list > > Today's Topics: > > 1. RE: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 18 (Barry Rice) > 2. Re: RE: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 18 (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) > 3. Re: Non-native CP plantings (Walter Greenwood) > 4. RE:out of zone (Tre Bond) > 5. RE: Non-native CP plantings (Dave Evans) > 6. Signs of Spring; Tissue Culture of CP'S (Bluemounttc@aol.com) > 7. RE: Re: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids (Hideka Kobayashi) > 8. RE: Re: Non-native CP plantings (Chris Teichreb) > 9. RE: Re: Non-native CP plantings (Harry Pulley) > 10. RE: Drosera hybrids (bioexp@juno.com) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 12:11:32 -0800 > From: "Barry Rice" > Subject: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 18 > To: > Message-ID: <200502172011.j1HKBWIr002304@warsaw.ucdavis.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > Hey Hamir, > > You're only thinking desert. You forget the sky islands and the Mogollon > Rim. Both have perennial acid wetlands that would be quite amenable areas. > Remember that U. macrorhiza and U. minor both occur in Arizona: > http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/g111.html > > Cheers > > Barry > > >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 14:31:37 EST >> From: HmrTheHrmt@aol.com >> Subject: Re: [CP] Non-native CP plantings >> To: Cp@omnisterra.com >> Message-ID: <1c0.2388459c.2f464b19@aol.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >> >> >> >> Since all the parts of Arizona I've seen are desert, I'd >> think the general environment would extirpate any S. purpurea >> in existence. >> >> >> In a message dated 2/17/2005 10:14:19 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, >> bamrice@ucdavis.edu writes: >> >> **S. purpurea in Arizona (probably extirpated by now) > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 16:14:02 EST > From: HmrTheHrmt@aol.com > Subject: Re: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 18 > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <1ec.3504333b.2f46631a@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > Sky islands are... what? Mountain tops or mesas that get significantly > more > rain than the lowlands? Those areas in the photos look pretty far > removed > from civilization, can't imagine anyone took the effort to drag S. > purpurea > seeds up there... (and even less likely whole plants to transplant). We > CP > growers can be a pretty determined bunch, I guess. > > In a message dated 2/17/2005 12:11:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > bamrice@ucdavis.edu writes: > > Hey Hamir, > > You're only thinking desert. You forget the sky islands and the Mogollon > Rim. Both have perennial acid wetlands that would be quite amenable > areas. > Remember that U. macrorhiza and U. minor both occur in Arizona: > http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/g111.html > > Cheers > > Barry > > > > > > > > TTFN > > > Hamir the Hermit > > > "And there you have another example of how, > while life for you is getting bigger and better, > for someone else in the world, > it's getting smaller and worse." > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 18:24:01 -0500 > From: Walter Greenwood > Subject: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <42152791.2090200@nauticom.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > I believe there is a colony of VFTs in central Pennsylvania, too. (I > didn't do it - honest!) > > -WG > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 16:24:13 -0800 (PST) > From: Tre Bond > Subject: [CP] RE:out of zone > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050218002414.61809.qmail@web53302.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Yes I meant 'Naturalized'. I did not count the VFTs in Flrida because > that is common knowledge but I did not know of anyothers besides the ones > here in NE Florida > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 19:32:42 -0500 > From: "Dave Evans" > Subject: [CP] RE: Non-native CP plantings > To: , "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" > > Message-ID: <002c01c51551$5bf786d0$0eada8c0@acstemp20> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Dear Tre, > > > There could be some _Sarracenia_ hybrids involving _S. flava, S. > purpurea venosa_ and _S. oreophila_ in Bloomsburg, PA. (I didn't do it > either, BTW!) Not sure about the VFT. > > > Dave Evans > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On > Behalf > Of Walter Greenwood > Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 6:24 PM > > > I believe there is a colony of VFTs in central Pennsylvania, too. (I > didn't do it - honest!) > > -WG > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 06:36:25 -0500 > From: Bluemounttc@aol.com > Subject: [CP] Signs of Spring; Tissue Culture of CP'S > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <08ABC410.7F46B7F1.364FDA8A@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > While it is icy and snowy outside today here in Maryland, I am happy to > say I have Sarracenia purpurea, S. leucophylla 'Tarnok', and lots of > flytraps sending up flower stalks in my propagation house. Ah, I love this > time of year. > > Is anyone else in this group doing tissue culture of CP's? I'd love to > network with others doing similar work as me. > > Regards, > Bonnie Collins > Monkton, Maryland > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 08:36:38 -0600 > From: "Hideka Kobayashi" > Subject: RE: Re: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > the chromosome set being a mixed number of both parents' sets> > > I think the key here is "some." But then why can a hybrid of two species > with equal chromosome numbers be sterile? The sterility of such hybrids > may > stem from the difference in genomic background of parental species, rather > than chromosome numbers. In other words, chromosomes of one parent may not > pair well with ones from the other parent. > > higher-ploid > set) due to spontaneous mutation.> > > I wouldn't personally call this ( a simple increase in the number of > chormosomes) a "mutation." There could have been, but is there any change > in > gene(s) always or usually associated with polyploidization? > > Also, production of unreduced gametes may be one reason why triploids and > such can produce viable seeds. > > Hideka > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 06:59:42 -0800 > From: "Chris Teichreb" > Subject: RE: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > I've written a note previously published in CPN about a bog near Vancouver > with several introduced and naturalized species. I've also submitted an > article on Darlingtonia introduction on Vancouver Island (though plants > haven't reached maturity yet). I know of a couple other introduced > populations that have successfully naturalized bogs around Vancouver and > Washington. > > Seems to be something we as humans are drawn into doing; introducing > flora/fauna into places it shouldn't be! > > Chris > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:23:53 -0500 (EST) > From: Harry Pulley > Subject: RE: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings > To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > Message-ID: <20050218152353.33727.qmail@web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Overall this is one of the cases where I find it funny > how we separate the activities of man from the > activies of nature. If a bird eats a seed and > migrates a long distance, dropping it far from home > where it flourishes by chance, is it now an alien > species? This has been happening for millions of > years. Somehow, when this happens either accidentally > or on purpose in connection with humans, we call it > the wanton destruction of native ecosystems. > > Species have been moved and made extinct since the > beginning of life on the planet. Humans are > particularly good at it but it is nothing new and > certainly nothing modern. > > I commend people for conservation efforts and I think > it is a good idea to only plant native species in your > outdoor garden anyways; that way you don't need to > offer them special winter protection. Eg. if I plant > on S. purpurea, D. rotundiflora and D. intermedia then > not only am I not introducing alien species, but > they'll grow fine since my yard is in their native > zone! There is a nice native plant nursery around > here offering not just CPs but many others which is a > nice way to garden. > > Harry Pulley > Guelph, Ontario, Canada > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 17:57:12 GMT > From: "bioexp@juno.com" > Subject: [CP] RE: Drosera hybrids > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050218.095741.14013.103730@webmail33.nyc.untd.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > > Hello Steven, Andreas, and all, > I must warn that the following reply may prove extraordinarily technical. > Only those initiated in such apocrypha should continue. > Most sterile hybrid sundews do not set seed at all Steven. Although > one common natural hybrid, triploid D. x obovata, may produce a few > *apparently* well formed seed. In my article I cite other papers that > tell, "all North American Drosera hybrids are sterile". Experimentation > proved that in a rare case tetraploid D. x obovata are at least slightly > fertile. > I'll try to explain how the common sterile triploid is able to produce > a few nonviable seed: As Schnell pointed out, the sterile plant's pollen > grains contain no starch and so are unable to grow pollen tubes. Perhaps a > few do cantain some starch? Still, even if fertilization is achieved, > there is that chromosome mismatch as Andreas elaborated. And remember, > chromosome cross-over (Chiasmata) does not occur at fertilization; only at > meiosis. Hope that helps! > Ivan Snyder > Hermosa Beach > California > >>I've been looking through my some of my cp books, and can't find >>information about sterile Drosera hybrids. > Do most Drosera hybrids set sterile seeds or no seed at all? > Ivan Snyders article in the June 2003 CPN, mentions Drosera x obovata as > an example of a hybrid that should not be able to set seed, because of non > viable pollen, but also states this same hybrid as not ever being > documented to produce viable seeds. The same article Ivan mentions finding > underdeveloped seeds in small amounts, at natural sites of this hybrid. > How does formation of non-viable seed take place, in plants that should > not be able to set seed at all? > Thank you, > Steven Stewart > Florida, USA > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. > Now includes pop-up blocker! > Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > End of Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 19 > ********************************** > > ################### From: sarracenia at blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Haines) Date: Sat Feb 19 13:25:54 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Non-native CP plantings > RE: Non-native CP plantings > > I must say that I would not plant a plant from my own collection into the > wilds. > > For 100's of year we have planted plants for personal good, food, or just > looks (gardens). > But as growers we do grow CP's out in gardens, which may be how some of > these plants have come from as birds and other animals may taken seed from > our gardens and then the rest is history. > > We also do not know if a plant ever lived in an area at one time or > another due to the case that plants do not leave > many fossils. Yes I know that some seed and bits can be kept for a long > time in acid ( peat ) bogs, and are found from time to time, but has > anyone found seed or pollen in the peat from 50, 100, 1000 years ago from > small plants like drosera? > So as I have never seen or read about a complete history of these places > were Non-native CP have now started to be found. > As long as there are no bugs that are rare or rare plants in the area, I > can not see any harm in keeping the plant there. > Remember we have dried out around 80% of land over time, so many bogs that > would have had our CP's have gone. > We need to have many areas with one type of CP in to save them from dyeing > out completely. > > > > Best Wishes Alan > ******************************** > **For the best TV & Radio guide on your PC** > http://accounts.digiguide.com/showcase.asp?p=1&r=17484 > ******************************** > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 8:11 PM > Subject: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 19 > > >> Send Cp mailing list submissions to >> Cp@omnisterra.com >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> Cp-request@omnisterra.com >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> Cp-owner@omnisterra.com >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Cp digest..." >> >> >> CP Mailing list >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. RE: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 18 (Barry Rice) >> 2. Re: RE: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 18 (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) >> 3. Re: Non-native CP plantings (Walter Greenwood) >> 4. RE:out of zone (Tre Bond) >> 5. RE: Non-native CP plantings (Dave Evans) >> 6. Signs of Spring; Tissue Culture of CP'S (Bluemounttc@aol.com) >> 7. RE: Re: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids (Hideka Kobayashi) >> 8. RE: Re: Non-native CP plantings (Chris Teichreb) >> 9. RE: Re: Non-native CP plantings (Harry Pulley) >> 10. RE: Drosera hybrids (bioexp@juno.com) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 12:11:32 -0800 >> From: "Barry Rice" >> Subject: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 18 >> To: >> Message-ID: <200502172011.j1HKBWIr002304@warsaw.ucdavis.edu> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> >> >> Hey Hamir, >> >> You're only thinking desert. You forget the sky islands and the Mogollon >> Rim. Both have perennial acid wetlands that would be quite amenable >> areas. >> Remember that U. macrorhiza and U. minor both occur in Arizona: >> http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/g111.html >> >> Cheers >> >> Barry >> >> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 4 >>> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 14:31:37 EST >>> From: HmrTheHrmt@aol.com >>> Subject: Re: [CP] Non-native CP plantings >>> To: Cp@omnisterra.com >>> Message-ID: <1c0.2388459c.2f464b19@aol.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >>> >>> >>> >>> Since all the parts of Arizona I've seen are desert, I'd >>> think the general environment would extirpate any S. purpurea >>> in existence. >>> >>> >>> In a message dated 2/17/2005 10:14:19 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, >>> bamrice@ucdavis.edu writes: >>> >>> **S. purpurea in Arizona (probably extirpated by now) >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 16:14:02 EST >> From: HmrTheHrmt@aol.com >> Subject: Re: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 18 >> To: Cp@omnisterra.com >> Message-ID: <1ec.3504333b.2f46631a@aol.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >> >> >> >> Sky islands are... what? Mountain tops or mesas that get significantly >> more >> rain than the lowlands? Those areas in the photos look pretty far >> removed >> from civilization, can't imagine anyone took the effort to drag S. >> purpurea >> seeds up there... (and even less likely whole plants to transplant). We >> CP >> growers can be a pretty determined bunch, I guess. >> >> In a message dated 2/17/2005 12:11:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, >> bamrice@ucdavis.edu writes: >> >> Hey Hamir, >> >> You're only thinking desert. You forget the sky islands and the Mogollon >> Rim. Both have perennial acid wetlands that would be quite amenable >> areas. >> Remember that U. macrorhiza and U. minor both occur in Arizona: >> http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/g111.html >> >> Cheers >> >> Barry >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> TTFN >> >> >> Hamir the Hermit >> >> >> "And there you have another example of how, >> while life for you is getting bigger and better, >> for someone else in the world, >> it's getting smaller and worse." >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 18:24:01 -0500 >> From: Walter Greenwood >> Subject: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings >> To: Cp@omnisterra.com >> Message-ID: <42152791.2090200@nauticom.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> I believe there is a colony of VFTs in central Pennsylvania, too. (I >> didn't do it - honest!) >> >> -WG >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 16:24:13 -0800 (PST) >> From: Tre Bond >> Subject: [CP] RE:out of zone >> To: Cp@omnisterra.com >> Message-ID: <20050218002414.61809.qmail@web53302.mail.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Yes I meant 'Naturalized'. I did not count the VFTs in Flrida because >> that is common knowledge but I did not know of anyothers besides the ones >> here in NE Florida >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 19:32:42 -0500 >> From: "Dave Evans" >> Subject: [CP] RE: Non-native CP plantings >> To: , "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" >> >> Message-ID: <002c01c51551$5bf786d0$0eada8c0@acstemp20> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Dear Tre, >> >> >> There could be some _Sarracenia_ hybrids involving _S. flava, S. >> purpurea venosa_ and _S. oreophila_ in Bloomsburg, PA. (I didn't do it >> either, BTW!) Not sure about the VFT. >> >> >> Dave Evans >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On >> Behalf >> Of Walter Greenwood >> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 6:24 PM >> >> >> I believe there is a colony of VFTs in central Pennsylvania, too. (I >> didn't do it - honest!) >> >> -WG >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 06:36:25 -0500 >> From: Bluemounttc@aol.com >> Subject: [CP] Signs of Spring; Tissue Culture of CP'S >> To: Cp@omnisterra.com >> Message-ID: <08ABC410.7F46B7F1.364FDA8A@aol.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> While it is icy and snowy outside today here in Maryland, I am happy to >> say I have Sarracenia purpurea, S. leucophylla 'Tarnok', and lots of >> flytraps sending up flower stalks in my propagation house. Ah, I love >> this time of year. >> >> Is anyone else in this group doing tissue culture of CP's? I'd love to >> network with others doing similar work as me. >> >> Regards, >> Bonnie Collins >> Monkton, Maryland >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 7 >> Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 08:36:38 -0600 >> From: "Hideka Kobayashi" >> Subject: RE: Re: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids >> To: Cp@omnisterra.com >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >> >> > to >> the chromosome set being a mixed number of both parents' sets> >> >> I think the key here is "some." But then why can a hybrid of two species >> with equal chromosome numbers be sterile? The sterility of such hybrids >> may >> stem from the difference in genomic background of parental species, >> rather >> than chromosome numbers. In other words, chromosomes of one parent may >> not >> pair well with ones from the other parent. >> >> > higher-ploid >> set) due to spontaneous mutation.> >> >> I wouldn't personally call this ( a simple increase in the number of >> chormosomes) a "mutation." There could have been, but is there any change >> in >> gene(s) always or usually associated with polyploidization? >> >> Also, production of unreduced gametes may be one reason why triploids and >> such can produce viable seeds. >> >> Hideka >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 8 >> Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 06:59:42 -0800 >> From: "Chris Teichreb" >> Subject: RE: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings >> To: Cp@omnisterra.com >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >> >> I've written a note previously published in CPN about a bog near >> Vancouver >> with several introduced and naturalized species. I've also submitted an >> article on Darlingtonia introduction on Vancouver Island (though plants >> haven't reached maturity yet). I know of a couple other introduced >> populations that have successfully naturalized bogs around Vancouver and >> Washington. >> >> Seems to be something we as humans are drawn into doing; introducing >> flora/fauna into places it shouldn't be! >> >> Chris >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 9 >> Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:23:53 -0500 (EST) >> From: Harry Pulley >> Subject: RE: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings >> To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group >> Message-ID: <20050218152353.33727.qmail@web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Overall this is one of the cases where I find it funny >> how we separate the activities of man from the >> activies of nature. If a bird eats a seed and >> migrates a long distance, dropping it far from home >> where it flourishes by chance, is it now an alien >> species? This has been happening for millions of >> years. Somehow, when this happens either accidentally >> or on purpose in connection with humans, we call it >> the wanton destruction of native ecosystems. >> >> Species have been moved and made extinct since the >> beginning of life on the planet. Humans are >> particularly good at it but it is nothing new and >> certainly nothing modern. >> >> I commend people for conservation efforts and I think >> it is a good idea to only plant native species in your >> outdoor garden anyways; that way you don't need to >> offer them special winter protection. Eg. if I plant >> on S. purpurea, D. rotundiflora and D. intermedia then >> not only am I not introducing alien species, but >> they'll grow fine since my yard is in their native >> zone! There is a nice native plant nursery around >> here offering not just CPs but many others which is a >> nice way to garden. >> >> Harry Pulley >> Guelph, Ontario, Canada >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 10 >> Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 17:57:12 GMT >> From: "bioexp@juno.com" >> Subject: [CP] RE: Drosera hybrids >> To: Cp@omnisterra.com >> Message-ID: <20050218.095741.14013.103730@webmail33.nyc.untd.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain >> >> >> Hello Steven, Andreas, and all, >> I must warn that the following reply may prove extraordinarily technical. >> Only those initiated in such apocrypha should continue. >> Most sterile hybrid sundews do not set seed at all Steven. Although >> one common natural hybrid, triploid D. x obovata, may produce a few >> *apparently* well formed seed. In my article I cite other papers that >> tell, "all North American Drosera hybrids are sterile". Experimentation >> proved that in a rare case tetraploid D. x obovata are at least slightly >> fertile. >> I'll try to explain how the common sterile triploid is able to >> produce a few nonviable seed: As Schnell pointed out, the sterile plant's >> pollen grains contain no starch and so are unable to grow pollen tubes. >> Perhaps a few do cantain some starch? Still, even if fertilization is >> achieved, there is that chromosome mismatch as Andreas elaborated. And >> remember, chromosome cross-over (Chiasmata) does not occur at >> fertilization; only at meiosis. Hope that helps! >> Ivan Snyder >> Hermosa Beach >> California >> >>>I've been looking through my some of my cp books, and can't find >>>information about sterile Drosera hybrids. >> Do most Drosera hybrids set sterile seeds or no seed at all? >> Ivan Snyders article in the June 2003 CPN, mentions Drosera x obovata as >> an example of a hybrid that should not be able to set seed, because of >> non viable pollen, but also states this same hybrid as not ever being >> documented to produce viable seeds. The same article Ivan mentions >> finding underdeveloped seeds in small amounts, at natural sites of this >> hybrid. How does formation of non-viable seed take place, in plants that >> should not be able to set seed at all? >> Thank you, >> Steven Stewart >> Florida, USA >> >> >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. >> Now includes pop-up blocker! >> Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Cp mailing list >> Cp@omnisterra.com >> http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com >> >> >> End of Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 19 >> ********************************** >> >> > ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Sat Feb 19 19:13:16 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings well, even though i might not be as educated as some of you other fine fellows i think the people who have that crazy lets go interduce a tiger to central massachusetts sickness( reffering to the whole human nature thing, as like interduceing cps to places they dont belong thing) should i think "hold" themselves over to just makeing a contained bog garden in their back yard and not to dump a cp in the nearest park etc... for the man with the tiger, im not so sure. thats my 2 cents ----- Original Message ----- To: Cp@omnisterra.com > > Send Cp mailing list submissions to > Cp@omnisterra.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > Cp-request@omnisterra.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > Cp-owner@omnisterra.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Cp digest..." > > > CP Mailing list > > Today's Topics: > > 1. re:necps (jon mungeam) > 2. Arizona sky islands (Barry Rice) > 3. Re: Arizona sky islands (Christopher Hind) > 4. Re: Re: Non-native CP plantings (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) > 5. RE: Re: Non-native CP plantings (Phil Bunch) > 6. Re: Re: Non-native CP plantings (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) > 7. RE: Re: Non-native CP plantings (Phil Bunch) > 8. RE: Sterile Drosera hybrids (Dave Evans) > 9. RE: Guess the Hybrid Sarracenia (Dave Evans) > 10. RE: Drosera hybrids (n.bellii@netzero.net) > 11. Re: Non-native CP plantings (Jim Pyrzynski) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 04:36:36 +0800 > From: "jon mungeam" > Subject: [CP] re:necps > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050218203636.75DE11027BE@ws3.hk5.outblaze.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > thanks Jeremiah, ill be sending out postage soon! > -- > _______________________________________________ > Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 12:38:28 -0800 > From: "Barry Rice" > Subject: [CP] Arizona sky islands > To: > Message-ID: <200502182038.j1IKcSAl005276@warsaw.ucdavis.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > Hi Hamir, > > Yes, "sky islands" is a term that refers to high elevation mountains in the > desert southwest. These mountaintops may be only a few tens of miles from > other mountains, but since they are separated by desert lowlands, the > mountaintops (which may be a climate more similar to Canada) has isolated > ecosystems. Speciation occurs, and local endemic species or taxa can result. > > Even though sites can be remote, people are determined, as you note. This > makes it even more difficult to figure out which introductions are > anthropogenic in origin. In the case I'm talking about in Arizona, the > original perpetrator admited to me what he had done. I visited the site a > few times, but was never able to find the Sarracenia. > > Later! > > Barry > > Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. > Director of Conservation Programs > The International Carnivorous Plant Society > http://www.carnivorousplants.org > > > Sky islands are... what? Mountain tops or mesas that get > > significantly more rain than the lowlands? Those areas in the > > photos look pretty far removed from civilization, can't imagine > > anyone took the effort to drag S. purpurea seeds up there... > > (and even less likely whole plants to transplant). We CP > > growers can be a pretty determined bunch, I guess. In a message > > dated 2/17/2005 12:11:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > > bamrice@ucdavis.edu writes: > > > > Hey Hamir, > > > > You're only thinking desert. You forget the sky islands and the > > Mogollon Rim. Both have perennial acid wetlands that would be > > quite amenable areas. > > Remember that U. macrorhiza and U. minor both occur in Arizona: > > http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/g111.html > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:00:56 -0800 (PST) > From: Christopher Hind > Subject: Re: [CP] Arizona sky islands > To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > Message-ID: <20050218210056.87165.qmail@web54108.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > wow sarracenia in arizona? i thought someone was > pulling my leg. > > --- Barry Rice wrote: > > > > > Hi Hamir, > > > > Yes, "sky islands" is a term that refers to high > > elevation mountains in the > > desert southwest. These mountaintops may be only a > > few tens of miles from > > other mountains, but since they are separated by > > desert lowlands, the > > mountaintops (which may be a climate more similar to > > Canada) has isolated > > ecosystems. Speciation occurs, and local endemic > > species or taxa can result. > > > > Even though sites can be remote, people are > > determined, as you note. This > > makes it even more difficult to figure out which > > introductions are > > anthropogenic in origin. In the case I'm talking > > about in Arizona, the > > original perpetrator admited to me what he had done. > > I visited the site a > > few times, but was never able to find the > > Sarracenia. Later! > > > > Barry > > > > Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. > > Director of Conservation Programs > > The International Carnivorous Plant Society > > http://www.carnivorousplants.org > > > > > Sky islands are... what? Mountain tops or mesas > > that get > significantly more rain than the lowlands? Those > > areas in > the photos look pretty far removed from > > civilization, can't > imagine anyone took the effort to drag S. > > purpurea seeds up > there... (and even less likely whole plants > > to transplant). > We CP growers can be a pretty determined > > bunch, I > > guess. > > In a message dated 2/17/2005 12:11:54 P.M. Pacific > > Standard > Time, bamrice@ucdavis.edu writes: > > > > Hey Hamir, > > > > You're only thinking desert. You forget the sky > > islands and > the Mogollon Rim. Both have perennial acid > > wetlands that > would be quite amenable areas. > > > Remember that U. macrorhiza and U. minor both > > occur in Arizona: > > > http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/g111.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cp mailing list > > Cp@omnisterra.com > > > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 19:53:45 EST > From: HmrTheHrmt@aol.com > Subject: Re: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <12f.573adbbc.2f47e819@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > Not necessarily "shouldn't" because if it grows there, it obviously can be > there. It just "isn't" in our current version of space/time. Only our > judgements are saying whether a plant "should" or "shouldn't" be > there. And that > is the crux of the biscuit as there are some people whose opinion it is that > as long as an organism can survive in a certain environment, it "should" be > there, whilst others maintain that if a plant isn't currently there, it > "shouldn't" be there. A real Star Trek "Prime Directive" dilemma. > > But you do hit the nail on the head by pointing out how it seems to be a > part of human nature to eliminate organisms from areas where they are happily > existing, and in other cases inserting them into areas where they previously > haven't been. I still find it amusing when I see home developments > in Southern > California where they are trying to mimic Florida landscaping, and then I go > to Florida and I see developments where they are trying to make them look > like the American Southwest! > > > In a message dated 2/18/2005 7:02:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > cteichreb@hotmail.com writes: > > Seems to be something we as humans are drawn into doing; introducing > flora/fauna into places it shouldn't be! > > > > > > > > TTFN > > > Hamir the Hermit > > > "And there you have another example of how, > while life for you is getting bigger and better, > for someone else in the world, > it's getting smaller and worse." > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 17:04:14 -0800 > From: "Phil Bunch" > Subject: RE: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings > To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" > Message-ID: <20050219010414.LWW5953.fed1rmmtao05.cox.net@laptop> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" > > The problem becomes: who are we to introduce organisms into "natural" > habitats? Obviously we can do so but an unfortunate aspect of humans is that > we are very good at doing things but very poor at understanding the > consequences of the things we chose to do. > > Phil Bunch > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On Behalf > Of HmrTheHrmt@aol.com > Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 4:54 PM > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Subject: Re: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings > > > > Not necessarily "shouldn't" because if it grows there, it obviously can be > there. It just "isn't" in our current version of space/time. Only our > judgements are saying whether a plant "should" or "shouldn't" be there. > And that > is the crux of the biscuit as there are some people whose opinion it is > that > as long as an organism can survive in a certain environment, it "should" be > > there, whilst others maintain that if a plant isn't currently there, it > "shouldn't" be there. A real Star Trek "Prime Directive" dilemma. > > But you do hit the nail on the head by pointing out how it seems to be a > part of human nature to eliminate organisms from areas where they are > happily > existing, and in other cases inserting them into areas where they previously > > haven't been. I still find it amusing when I see home developments in > Southern > California where they are trying to mimic Florida landscaping, and then I > go > to Florida and I see developments where they are trying to make them look > like the American Southwest! > > > In a message dated 2/18/2005 7:02:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > cteichreb@hotmail.com writes: > > Seems to be something we as humans are drawn into doing; introducing > flora/fauna into places it shouldn't be! > > > > > > > > TTFN > > > Hamir the Hermit > > > "And there you have another example of how, > while life for you is getting bigger and better, > for someone else in the world, > it's getting smaller and worse." > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.0.0 - Release Date: 2/18/2005 > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.0.0 - Release Date: 2/18/2005 > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 22:11:05 EST > From: HmrTheHrmt@aol.com > Subject: Re: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <81.21ba7111.2f480849@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > I think the question is not so much "who" we are so much as "what." And > that's part of the Ecosystem that the planet earth has developed > at this point > in its existence. As has been pointed out, organisms have been added to and > removed from habitats since time began. Terming something "natural" or > "unnatural" simply because it's done by humans is a moral > judgement. Organisms > have been going extinct and new ones coming into being for millions and > millions of years, and there have been a number of major extinction events in > earth's history with a subsequent flourishing of new species > afterwards. In the > history of the planet, what we do today will be irrelevant in a > billion years. > Whether we are still here or not, whether we've turned the planet into a > radioactive dustball or not, the planet will eventually fall into the sun, or > get burned up in a supernova, or thrown off into the void of space to drift > around as a big snowball. To our immediate descendants what we do > will matter a > great deal because soon they will never get the chance to see a great ape or > a black panther, just as I'll never get to see a dodo or a passenger pigeon. > > In a message dated 2/18/2005 5:05:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > pbunch@cox.net writes: > > The problem becomes: who are we to introduce organisms into "natural" > habitats? Obviously we can do so but an unfortunate aspect of humans is that > we are very good at doing things but very poor at understanding the > consequences of the things we chose to do. > > > > > > > > TTFN > > > Hamir the Hermit > > > "And there you have another example of how, > while life for you is getting bigger and better, > for someone else in the world, > it's getting smaller and worse." > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 07:12:20 -0800 > From: "Phil Bunch" > Subject: RE: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings > To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" > Message-ID: <20050219151219.HLUD18442.fed1rmmtao09.cox.net@laptop> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" > > Good and bad, natural and unnatural are indeed human concepts. They involve > choice. As members of both social and non-human biological communities it is > incumbent on us to make wise and compassionate choices. Wisdom is much under > rated of late. > > Phil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On Behalf > Of HmrTheHrmt@aol.com > Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 7:11 PM > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Subject: Re: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings > > > > I think the question is not so much "who" we are so much as "what." And > that's part of the Ecosystem that the planet earth has developed at this > point > in its existence. As has been pointed out, organisms have been added to > and > removed from habitats since time began. Terming something "natural" or > "unnatural" simply because it's done by humans is a moral judgement. > Organisms > have been going extinct and new ones coming into being for millions and > millions of years, and there have been a number of major extinction events > in > earth's history with a subsequent flourishing of new species afterwards. > In the > history of the planet, what we do today will be irrelevant in a billion > years. > Whether we are still here or not, whether we've turned the planet into a > radioactive dustball or not, the planet will eventually fall into the sun, > or > get burned up in a supernova, or thrown off into the void of space to drift > > around as a big snowball. To our immediate descendants what we do will > matter a > great deal because soon they will never get the chance to see a great ape > or > a black panther, just as I'll never get to see a dodo or a passenger > pigeon. > > In a message dated 2/18/2005 5:05:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > pbunch@cox.net writes: > > The problem becomes: who are we to introduce organisms into "natural" > habitats? Obviously we can do so but an unfortunate aspect of humans is > that > we are very good at doing things but very poor at understanding the > consequences of the things we chose to do. > > > > > > > > TTFN > > > Hamir the Hermit > > > "And there you have another example of how, > while life for you is getting bigger and better, > for someone else in the world, > it's getting smaller and worse." > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.0.0 - Release Date: 2/18/2005 > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.0.0 - Release Date: 2/18/2005 > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 10:15:31 -0500 > From: "Dave Evans" > Subject: RE: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids > To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" > Message-ID: <001701c51695$da54b5d0$22aba8c0@acsots06> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Dear OL and Steven, > > > I don't know the direct answer to this question, but I do know that > not all flowers will produce non-viable seed, most sterile hybrids produce > nothing. It seems that sometimes, while the pollen will not be viable or > useable, it can still induce a reaction in the female flower. Whether or > not this can also help to cause empty seed to develop, I'm not sure. The > empty seeds are so small that they are like dust, BTW. > > > Dave Evans > New Jersey, USA > www.Dangerousplants.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On Behalf > Of o.marthaler@bluewin.ch > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 5:15 PM > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Subject: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids > > > Hi Steven, > > Not being a botanist at all, I will only mention to you my own and modest > experience: > > Nearly three years ago in the spring, I collected a few droseras x obovatas > (?)in a couple of bogs overhere in Western Switzerland, as a young friend > of mine was doing a school research in botany about the carnivorous flora > of our region. Collecting them was intended to make sure the plants he was > studying were not dr. anglica, as the leaves did look quite similar indeed. > > So those plants later flowered at my place, and, while in the same > conditions > *definitely sure* dr. rotundifolia and dr. anglica produced seeds (viable, > as I sowed them later and they germinated), those dr. obovatas also > flowered, > but produced NO seeds whatsoever! Thus we deduced they were x obovata > indeed... > > > But are ALL x obovata sterile in nature? Sorry we'll have to wait for more > expert answers! > > Just my little brick on the wall! > > Cheers, > > OL > > btw: "your" nep. bical. sown in CH look splendid now ! Thanx again. > > > Message: 8 > > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 18:42:08 GMT > > From: "n.bellii@netzero.net" > > Subject: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids > > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > > Message-ID: <20050216.104236.15672.70344@webmail26.lax.untd.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain > > > > > > Hello, > > > > I've been looking through my some of my cp books, and can't find > information > > about sterile Drosera hybrids. > > > > Do most Drosera hybrids set sterile seeds or no seed at all? > > > > In an article, June 2003 CPN, Ivan Snyder mentions finding underdeveloped > > seeds in small amounts, at natural sites of Drosera x obovata as > > an example of a hybrid that should not be able to set seed, because of non > > viable pollen, and also states this same hybrid as not ever being > > documented to produce viable seeds. > > > > How does formation of non-viable seed take place, in plants that should > > not be able to set seed at all? Thank you, > > Steven Stewart > > Florida, USA > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 10:33:31 -0500 > From: "Dave Evans" > Subject: RE: [CP] Guess the Hybrid Sarracenia > To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" > Message-ID: <001801c51698$5e22b4a0$22aba8c0@acsots06> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Dear Aaron, > > > Picking out the hybrid's parent is never easy, but here goes: > > http://home.petflytrap.com/users/sarracenia/newcamerapics/uncchybrid1.jpg > This one is definitely _S. psittacina * S. flava_, F1 I believe. > > As for the rest, I think I'll just be mudding the waters further > with comment... The guesses already mentioned in the links are what I am > thinking of for most of these plants, without actually seeing them in person > it is too difficult to tell. > > > Dave Evans > New Jersey, USA > www.Dangerousplants.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On Behalf > Of Aaron Carlson > Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 7:25 AM > To: cp@omnisterra.com > Subject: [CP] Guess the Hybrid Sarracenia > > I created this little web page awhile ago, but never posted it to this list. > Just curious as to what everyone thinks the possible parents of these > hybrids are. Thanks in advance. > > http://home.petflytrap.com/users/sarracenia/unknowns.htm > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 16:03:53 GMT > From: "n.bellii@netzero.net" > Subject: [CP] RE: Drosera hybrids > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050219.080424.5406.115941@webmail01.lax.untd.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > > > Thank you! OL, Andreas, Hideka & Ivan, > > You've given me a lot to think about. It would seem that attempting > to "treat" or alter chomosomes in sterile seed from Drosera hybrids > would be futile. The species or hybrid plants would need to be the > target. > > OL - I'm glad to hear the Nepenthes bicalcarata "kids" are doing well!! > > Thank you all again, > > Steven Stewart > Florida, USA > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 11:00:56 -0600 > From: Jim Pyrzynski > Subject: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings > To: carnivorous plants > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" > > There is a similar ongoing discussion in the native orchid conference list > because of the publication of book on wild orchid (temperate) cultivation. > Temperate species of orchids are difficult to grow (at least with the > current knowledge) and so cultivation is generally viewed as a no no. I took > the liberty of cross posting Harry's comments since they were similar to the > ones I expressed on that list. My comments on the subject follows: > > This is really part of an interesting philosophical question. Is man apart > from nature and his (or her) actions interfering with nature or is man a > part of nature and doing things that are part of ?his nature?? > > In addition to that, I find it interesting that ?conservation types? (and I > am pro-conservation) are pro such things as establishing peregrine falcons > in cities (we have them here in Omaha, Nebraska) even though I doubt they > ever nested there because there were no suitable nesting sites before high > rise buildings. Or the attempts at establishing alternate flocks of whooping > cranes (e.g. over wintering in New Mexico) so as to ensure the continuation > of the species in the event of a disastrous hurricane in the historical over > wintering area in Texas. And there are other examples - the California > Condor efforts, wolves, etc., to say nothing about things done to enhance > hunting and fishing (turkeys, and of course nonnative species). > > Man affects his environment by just existing and breathing, too. Some > species increase (e.g. the coyote?s range has expanded probably due to our > suppression of the wolf) and some species decrease because of the pressures > we put on the environment. > > I doubt if there is much ?wild? left in the eastern part of the country. We > have a nature preserve nearby, virtually all of it was logged at one time, > some of it farmed. At the time of Lewis and Clark?s expedition, the ridge > tops were savannah, now they are rather heavily forested because of fire > suppression. Interesting showy orchis grows in one area that was farmed for > corn as recently as 50 years ago and apparently it is declining partly due > to the regrowth of the forest. Some orchids thrive in roadside ditches just > because of that disturbance. > > And I suppose one can be thankful for the efforts of man too. I doubt that > we would still have Franklinia altamaha, a shrub once found in southeastern > Georgia. It was last collected in 1790 but now it continues to grow in > gardens. And we in Nebraska are fortunate to have fruit bearing American > Chestnuts (Castanea dendata). They escaped the blight that ravaged (and > continues to ravage) the species in it natural range because someone (John > Sterling Morton, I presume) planted some on his estate, Arbor Lodge, now a > state park. > > Let the discussion go on. > > Jim Pyrzynski > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > End of Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 20 > ********************************** -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Sat Feb 19 21:43:16 2005 Subject: [CP] Want: U. minor Any one have US native bladderwort U. minor? Wolf ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sun Feb 20 14:12:31 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: non-natives/life tree A question I have is why would nayone spend the time, money, or effort to introduce non-native cps? If it is successful it will take quite a few plants planted in good (and usually fairly inaccessable) places. And wouldn't they think that others (conservationists) would remove these plants? At least I have not got any reports of people introducing D. capensis or spatulata. Ivan and others, I do not know how reliable this is but on CSI they mentioned the life-tree (of some african tribe) is a bush/shrub that is pollinated by beetles. Tre ################### From: meadow at bealenet.com (meadow@bealenet.com) Date: Sun Feb 20 15:55:38 2005 Subject: [CP] seepage wetland symposium Hi Everyone: I want to invite you to attend our symposium on seepage wetlands which will be held on Friday, March 11. There is no charge to attend. We have some noteworthy speakers and I think you will find the topics interesting. More info. can be found on the EVENTS link on our web site at www.pitcherplant.org. Hope to see you there! Sincerely, Phil Sheridan Director Meadowview Biological Research Station http://www.bealenet.com ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Sun Feb 20 18:04:44 2005 Subject: [CP] CP conservation in florida Anyone on the list involved in conservation of CP in the wild in florida? I'm particularly interested in a patch of d. capillaris ive been told is planted in big cypress swamp in south florida. I should be relocated here completely by the middle of march. Finally getting closer to living out my dream of being able to grow CP in my backyard. ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 20 20:40:03 2005 Subject: [CP] CP conservation in florida Judging by the level of rain we're getting here in California right now, you might as well have stayed here. I think we've broken the 30" mark by now.... In a message dated 2/20/2005 6:04:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, cixcell@yahoo.com writes: Finally getting closer to living out my dream of being able to grow CP in my backyard. TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: stovehouse at earthlink.net (Michael Hunt) Date: Mon Feb 21 06:00:45 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <12f.573adbbc.2f47e819@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII I still find it amusing when I see home developments in Southern California where they are trying to mimic Florida landscaping, and then I go to Florida and I see developments where they are trying to make them look like the American Southwest! ..In Florida this isn't as odd as it sounds regarding landscaping with plants from the SW or the desert areas of parts of Mexico. Florida host a good selection of native cactus & succulents, as well as Cuba and the Caribbean basin. The climate is very similar to eastern Mexico along the gulf and on the western Pacific coast , down the Baja. Peninsula Florida, especially along the coastal regions has for the most very quick draining sand, in many places that is the entire soil content. It can rain a couple of inches almost daily an by the dawn of the next day the sandy soil is completely dry to the point where you could stick your fingers down a few inches and detect no moisture at all from the day before downpour. Take a hike down the what is left of the Florida ridge down the spine of Central Florida in June, it is blistering hot and though humid it resembles the desert in both flora & fauna. You will think you are in the Sonora desert. Yet amongst this sandy series of dunes along US 27 there are areas where wet areas remain and Drosera can be found. Most of this region is destroyed to agriculture an now suburban sprawl to the north west of Disney World Extreme south Florida's main soil base is a rock hard layer of limestone that in places rises to the surface in other places such as the Everglades there are large pockets of decaying plant matter as peat. None the less the Everglades has a lot of ground that is alkaline. The nature of this soil make up repels water when it falls it is very very hard to dig into, just like solid rock. There are rare native Ceres growing on shell mounds directly along the west gulf coast north to Tampa Bay. To the south towards Cuba you pick up not just the Melocactus family but also Mammillaria, all native cacti to these humid sub & tropical climates. Florida has many native Opuntia species as well. In fact if you went around the globe looking at climates you will find that Florida is the oddity climate wise. For all other land areas at this latitude are dry/deserts. Florida is the oddity due to the large bodies of water on both sides of the narrow peninsula. These bodies of water cause a clash of airmass's in the summer allowing creation of violent afternoon thunderstorms and that is all that keeps peninsula Florida from being a desert. When the temperatures drop and the water temperature drops in the winter these thunderstorms cease. Florida becomes a very dry region where only the occasional cold front provides a little rain. If not for the Atlantic and gulf of Mexico Florida's climate & landscape would be close to that of the Chihuahua desert in Mexico at the same elevation. However, given the summertime rainy period causes Florida not to be a dry desert like climate this is also due to the very high humidity that most cacti & some succulents like the Lithops detest. During the summer period it is hard to keep many types of cacti in pots from scaring due to the high humidity and frequent rainfall. Thus cacti from the Baja Peninsula do very well in most of Florida, which to a point is very similar to Florida humidity wise due to the Pacific and gulf of California. If you were to visit southeastern Texas you will find a similar summertime climate to Florida, in the winter this area even gets more rain regularly than Florida and a plethora of cacti & succulent species lives here to include the Peyote button, and other of the rock cacti types that hate to much water in a pot & are known for growing extremely dry. In my own case we receive much less summertime rains compared to the inland areas. On the coast the storms are blown away inland. My cacti and succulents overall do very well, the best ones are directly planted into the ground. In fact they cause much less problems in maintaining and care than the Sarracenia. It is a strange sight indeed to see a N. bicalcarata sitting next to a large golden barrel cactus on a July afternoon both growing extremely nice. The State of Florida encourages plantings around the home of plants that require low to very low amounts of water with the exeriscape use for landscaping. If you visit Florida take note of the large amount of very successful plantings of cacti & succulents which do not get much if any type of care by the homeowner or business. Agaves, Aloes, Stapelia, mammilaria, Echinocactus, gymnoclacium, etc all excel in the Florida climate. Currently Aloes,& Kalanchoes are in full bloom. There is no care given to these plants at all year round. Some kalanchoes are now invasive, an are a real pest, As are some of the Sanserveria species. Generally succulents/cacti are not invasive due to the specialized areas, slow rate of growth, & low yield of success from seed. Opunita native or brought in can both be invasive, notice that I state native species. Some native species of plants can be invasive as well as plants brought in from elsewhere. Florida has 2 different parts the northern part which is more like the rest of the Southeastern USA an the peninsula. This is not what you see happening in southern California (in a normal year not this wet winter) , Phoenix, or Las Vegas. You cannot make the desert what it is not, and here many are introducing and spending much in care to create a more tropical landscape without the water or climate to support it on its own. Mike St. Petersburg Florida ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Mon Feb 21 06:15:16 2005 Subject: [CP] CP conservation in florida > Judging by the level of rain we're getting here in > California right now, you > might as well have stayed here. I think we've > broken the 30" mark by now.... that would just so completely make sense if i got settled in here and florida dried up into a desert and california turned into a swamp. ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Mon Feb 21 06:49:09 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings > I still find it amusing when I see home developments > in Southern > California where they are trying to mimic Florida > landscaping, and then I > go > to Florida and I see developments where they are > trying to make them look > like the American Southwest! YES!!! I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU MEAN!! The lakes in irvine, ca look exactly like parts of florida. > ..In Florida this isn't as odd as it sounds > regarding landscaping with > plants from the SW or the desert areas of parts of > Mexico. > Florida host a good selection of native cactus & > succulents, as well as Cuba > and the Caribbean basin. and some of them have very VERY interesting names! http://www.livejournal.com/users/cixel/927775.html wow thank you for all your information on florida climate its fascinating! > ground. In fact they cause much less problems in > maintaining and care than > the Sarracenia. It is a strange sight indeed to see > a N. bicalcarata > sitting next to a large golden barrel cactus on a > July afternoon both > growing extremely nice. thats awesome! > This is not what you see happening in southern > California (in a normal year > not this wet winter) , Phoenix, or Las Vegas. You > cannot make the desert > what it is not, and here many are introducing and > spending much in care to > create a more tropical landscape without the water > or climate to support it > on its own. Ahh but you can force a climate with irrigation (aka a trillion sprinkler systems) take a look at thousand oaks, ca for an example. ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Mon Feb 21 13:56:41 2005 Subject: [CP] Cp in Florida/rubra complex How do you tell the difference between S. rubra ssp wheryii and alabamensis? I just bought a plant (from the BG in Gainsville) that is one of those. It looks exactly like the picture on P. 80 of Schnell's 2nd edition. No "spout" from the lips is present. Well if you live in the right area (flooded occasionally) or probibly dig a ditch in your Florida yard you can plant D. capillaris and/or brevifolia or seed will come up naturally if it is in good conditions. ################### From: mrg40 at student.canterbury.ac.nz (Mikala Graham) Date: Mon Feb 21 13:57:34 2005 Subject: [CP] New Member Hi, My name is Mikala, I live in New Zealand & have just started getting into carnivorous plants again. I have various types of sarracenia, including flava, leukiphyla (sp?), minor, purpurea, and some unknown hybrids. I also have a cephalotus (not the giant type), venus flytrap and many sundews which had seeded into the pots with others when I bought them. I have a quick question... My cephalotus has very deep red pitchers which seem to be slowly dying off. it has produced a few new pitchers, but not as many as I would have expected for how long I have had it, the pitchers appear quite spread out and are not clumped in the centre as I have seen other plants. It gets a lot of light and heat and is sitting in the same water tray as all the others which are doing fine. Could this be due to too low humidity? My other plants are all in full growth at the moment. Will putting a plastic bag over the top with a small hole cut help? Thanks, Mikala. ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Mon Feb 21 17:15:48 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: non-native cp plantings even though poeple do it, it really is a slim chance of it working. but it goes for any non-native plant, if you really, really want it so much that it would come to the point that you just have to dump it in your nearest woodland, medow, etc.. you mine as well put it in your own backyard!!! as in the case of cps, just make a bog garden! and as long as you dont totally negect it, it probaly wont spread to the outside ecosystem (even if your lucky eunuff to live near a swamp, etc... ----- Original Message ----- To: Cp@omnisterra.com > > Send Cp mailing list submissions to > Cp@omnisterra.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > Cp-request@omnisterra.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > Cp-owner@omnisterra.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Cp digest..." > > > CP Mailing list > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: non-natives/life tree (Tre Bond) > 2. seepage wetland symposium (meadow@bealenet.com) > 3. CP conservation in florida (Christopher Hind) > 4. Re: CP conservation in florida (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) > 5. Re: Non-native CP plantings (Michael Hunt) > 6. Re: CP conservation in florida (Christopher Hind) > 7. Re: Re: Non-native CP plantings (Christopher Hind) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 14:12:16 -0800 (PST) > From: Tre Bond > Subject: [CP] Re: non-natives/life tree > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050220221216.18498.qmail@web53309.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > A question I have is why would nayone spend the time, money, or > effort to introduce non-native cps? If it is successful it will > take quite a few plants planted in good (and usually fairly > inaccessable) places. And wouldn't they think that others > (conservationists) would remove these plants? At least I have not > got any reports of people introducing D. capensis or spatulata. > Ivan and others, > I do not know how reliable this is but on CSI they mentioned the > life-tree (of some african tribe) is a bush/shrub that is > pollinated by beetles. > Tre > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 23:54:39 GMT > From: meadow@bealenet.com > Subject: [CP] seepage wetland symposium > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <4219233f.3f85.0@bealenet.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > Hi Everyone: > > I want to invite you to attend our symposium on seepage wetlands which will > be held on Friday, March 11. There is no charge to attend. We have > some noteworthy > speakers and I think you will find the topics interesting. More info. can be > found on the EVENTS link on our web site at www.pitcherplant.org. Hope to see > you there! > > Sincerely, > > Phil Sheridan > Director > Meadowview Biological > Research Station > > http://www.bealenet.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 18:04:30 -0800 (PST) > From: Christopher Hind > Subject: [CP] CP conservation in florida > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050221020431.45879.qmail@web54102.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Anyone on the list involved in conservation of CP in > the wild in florida? I'm particularly interested in a > patch of d. capillaris ive been told is planted in big > cypress swamp in south florida. I should be relocated > here completely by the middle of march. > > Finally getting closer to living out my dream of being > able to grow CP in my backyard. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 23:39:42 EST > From: HmrTheHrmt@aol.com > Subject: Re: [CP] CP conservation in florida > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <7d.6370c515.2f4ac00e@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > Judging by the level of rain we're getting here in California right now, you > might as well have stayed here. I think we've broken the 30" mark by now.... > > > In a message dated 2/20/2005 6:04:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > cixcell@yahoo.com writes: > > Finally getting closer to living out my dream of being > able to grow CP in my backyard. > > > > > > > > TTFN > > > Hamir the Hermit > > > "And there you have another example of how, > while life for you is getting bigger and better, > for someone else in the world, > it's getting smaller and worse." > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 09:01:24 -0500 > From: "Michael Hunt" > Subject: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings > To: > Message-ID: <001101c5181d$d78cbc10$424b9018@ibm2jtbat2tgab> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > From: HmrTheHrmt@aol.com > Subject: Re: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <12f.573adbbc.2f47e819@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII > > I still find it amusing when I see home developments in Southern > California where they are trying to mimic Florida landscaping, and then I > go > to Florida and I see developments where they are trying to make them look > like the American Southwest! > > > > ..In Florida this isn't as odd as it sounds regarding landscaping with > plants from the SW or the desert areas of parts of Mexico. > Florida host a good selection of native cactus & succulents, as well as Cuba > and the Caribbean basin. The climate is very similar to eastern Mexico along > the gulf and on the western Pacific coast , down the Baja. > Peninsula Florida, especially along the coastal regions has for the most > very quick draining sand, in many places that is the entire soil content. > It can rain a couple of inches almost daily an by the dawn of the next day > the sandy soil is completely dry to the point where you could stick your > fingers down a few inches and detect no moisture at all from the day before > downpour. > > Take a hike down the what is left of the Florida ridge down the spine of > Central Florida in June, it is blistering hot and though humid it resembles > the desert in both flora & fauna. You will think you are in the Sonora > desert. > Yet amongst this sandy series of dunes along US 27 there are areas where wet > areas remain and Drosera can be found. Most of this region is destroyed to > agriculture an now suburban sprawl to the north west of Disney World > > Extreme south Florida's main soil base is a rock hard layer of limestone > that in places rises to the surface in other places such as the Everglades > there are large pockets of decaying plant matter as peat. None the less the > Everglades has a lot of ground that is alkaline. The nature of this soil > make up repels water when it falls it is very very hard to dig into, just > like solid rock. > There are rare native Ceres growing on shell mounds directly along the west > gulf coast north to Tampa Bay. To the south towards Cuba you pick up not > just the Melocactus family but also Mammillaria, all native cacti to these > humid sub & tropical climates. Florida has many native Opuntia species as > well. > > In fact if you went around the globe looking at climates you will find that > Florida is the oddity climate wise. For all other land areas at this > latitude are dry/deserts. Florida is the oddity due to the large bodies of > water on both sides of the narrow peninsula. These bodies of water cause a > clash of airmass's in the summer allowing creation of violent afternoon > thunderstorms and that is all that keeps peninsula Florida from being a > desert. When the temperatures drop and the water temperature drops in the > winter these thunderstorms cease. Florida becomes a very dry region where > only the occasional cold front provides a little rain. > > If not for the Atlantic and gulf of Mexico Florida's climate & landscape > would be close to that of the Chihuahua desert in Mexico at the same > elevation. > > However, given the summertime rainy period causes Florida not to be a dry > desert like climate this is also due to the very high humidity that most > cacti & some succulents like the Lithops detest. During the summer period > it is hard to keep many types of cacti in pots from scaring due to the high > humidity and frequent rainfall. Thus cacti from the Baja Peninsula do very > well in most of Florida, which to a point is very similar to Florida > humidity wise due to the Pacific and gulf of California. If you were to > visit southeastern Texas you will find a similar summertime climate to > Florida, in the winter this area even gets more rain regularly than Florida > and a plethora of cacti & succulent species lives here to include the Peyote > button, and other of the rock cacti types that hate to much water in a pot & > are known for growing extremely dry. > > In my own case we receive much less summertime rains compared to the inland > areas. On the coast the storms are blown away inland. My cacti and > succulents overall do very well, the best ones are directly planted into the > ground. In fact they cause much less problems in maintaining and care than > the Sarracenia. It is a strange sight indeed to see a N. bicalcarata > sitting next to a large golden barrel cactus on a July afternoon both > growing extremely nice. > > The State of Florida encourages plantings around the home of plants that > require low to very low amounts of water with the exeriscape use for > landscaping. > > If you visit Florida take note of the large amount of very successful > plantings of cacti & succulents which do not get much if any type of care by > the homeowner or business. Agaves, Aloes, Stapelia, mammilaria, > Echinocactus, gymnoclacium, etc all excel in the Florida climate. Currently > Aloes,& Kalanchoes are in full bloom. There is no care given to these > plants at all year round. Some kalanchoes are now invasive, an are a real > pest, As are some of the Sanserveria species. > Generally succulents/cacti are not invasive due to the specialized areas, > slow rate of growth, & low yield of success from seed. Opunita native or > brought in can both be invasive, notice that I state native species. Some > native species of plants can be invasive as well as plants brought in from > elsewhere. > > Florida has 2 different parts the northern part which is more like the rest > of the Southeastern USA an the peninsula. > > This is not what you see happening in southern California (in a normal year > not this wet winter) , Phoenix, or Las Vegas. You cannot make the desert > what it is not, and here many are introducing and spending much in care to > create a more tropical landscape without the water or climate to support it > on its own. > > Mike > St. Petersburg Florida > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 06:15:09 -0800 (PST) > From: Christopher Hind > Subject: Re: [CP] CP conservation in florida > To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > Message-ID: <20050221141509.27135.qmail@web54108.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > Judging by the level of rain we're getting here in > > California right now, you might as well have stayed here. I think we've > > broken the 30" mark by now.... > > that would just so completely make sense if i got > settled in here and florida dried up into a desert and > california turned into a swamp. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 06:49:01 -0800 (PST) > From: Christopher Hind > Subject: Re: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings > To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > Message-ID: <20050221144902.66742.qmail@web54109.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > I still find it amusing when I see home developments > > in Southern > > California where they are trying to mimic Florida > > landscaping, and then I go > > to Florida and I see developments where they are > > trying to make them look > > like the American Southwest! > > YES!!! I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU MEAN!! > The lakes in irvine, ca look exactly like parts of > florida. > > > ..In Florida this isn't as odd as it sounds > > regarding landscaping with plants from the SW or the desert areas of parts of > > Mexico. > > Florida host a good selection of native cactus & > > succulents, as well as Cuba and the Caribbean basin. > > and some of them have very VERY interesting names! > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/cixel/927775.html > > wow thank you for all your information on florida > climate its fascinating! > > > ground. In fact they cause much less problems in > > maintaining and care than the Sarracenia. It is a strange sight > > indeed to see > > a N. bicalcarata sitting next to a large golden barrel cactus on a > > July afternoon both growing extremely nice. > > thats awesome! > > > This is not what you see happening in southern > > California (in a normal year not this wet winter) , Phoenix, or > > Las Vegas. You > > cannot make the desert what it is not, and here many are introducing and > > spending much in care to create a more tropical landscape without the water > > or climate to support it on its own. > > Ahh but you can force a climate with irrigation (aka a > trillion sprinkler systems) take a look at thousand > oaks, ca for an example. > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > End of Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 23 > ********************************** -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Mon Feb 21 20:24:09 2005 Subject: [CP] New Member Dear Mikala, Welcome to the list. _Cephalotus_ is not very fond of heat. Also, they need the soil to be less wet (more like permanently moist) than _Sarracenia_ soils. I doubt the plastic bag would help. Probably some more shade during the hot part of the day and less water will help your plant. Whenever I get a _Cephalotus_ plant I think it is a good idea to make cuttings from it as soon as it is large enough. My experience with _Cephalotus_ has been that it can grow for years, and then one day you find all the roots have rotted. :( This is why it is best to make some cuttings so there are separate plants just incase this disease strikes the original plant. Good luck, Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of Mikala Graham Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 4:57 PM Hi, My name is Mikala, I live in New Zealand & have just started getting into carnivorous plants again. I have various types of Sarracenia, including flava, leucophylla (sp?), minor, purpurea, and some unknown hybrids. I also have a Cephalotus (not the giant type), Venus flytrap and many sundews which had seeded into the pots with others when I bought them. I have a quick question... My Cephalotus has very deep red pitchers which seem to be slowly dying off. it has produced a few new pitchers, but not as many as I would have expected for how long I have had it, the pitchers appear quite spread out and are not clumped in the centre as I have seen other plants. It gets a lot of light and heat and is sitting in the same water tray as all the others which are doing fine. Could this be due to too low humidity? My other plants are all in full growth at the moment. Will putting a plastic bag over the top with a small hole cut help? Thanks, Mikala. ################### From: jmateosky at yahoo.com (JIM MATEOSKY) Date: Tue Feb 22 04:49:28 2005 Subject: [CP] Shipping - best way for chance of survival? Hi everyone, What is the best way to ship nepenthes? It is a long way from SE asia to North America, + Customs time and get them in to the pots... Bare root? Know anyone that whips in meristem boxes (grown in a gel called AGAR)? ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Tue Feb 22 09:30:38 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Sterile Drosera hybrids >Also, production of unreduced gametes may be one reason why triploids >and such can produce viable seeds. Hi Hideka, Hmmm, curious you mention that. I once wild collected seed of a normally tetraploid sundew and sent some to Fernando Rivadavia. He grew them and later counted the chromosomes. It had 30; a triploid set. I felt at the time that this was a mistake, but who knows? I think his article which tells about this is pending publication now. Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: asplundii at gmail.com (Travis Wyman) Date: Tue Feb 22 10:57:12 2005 Subject: [CP] RFI: Sarr location in North Carolina I have heard that there is a really nice stand of S. flava near Lumberton, NC. I have family in that area and will be visiting them in the next month or so and was curious if anyone could confirm this rumor and perhaps provide directions. I'd like the opportunity to get out to the site and photograph some plants in situ. If you can help please email me off list. Thanks Travis ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Tue Feb 22 13:59:44 2005 Subject: [CP] source? Any one know where I can get these US native bladderworts? Utricularia minor Utricularia olivacea Utricularia radiata Utricularia resupinata Wolf ################### From: madanderson1992 at access-4-free.com (Michael Anderson) Date: Tue Feb 22 21:46:28 2005 Subject: [CP] Sarracenia Hi, Just wondering if anyone knows of anywhere in or near Naples or Bonita Springs, Florida where I would be able to purchase Sarracenia? Thanks, ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Tue Feb 22 21:53:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: sarr location i nc thats good, make sure u dont reveal the location here, im sure u guys r fine gentlemen, but u never know! those plant robbers may be lurking around the bushs! -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: namour at lyon.cemagref.fr (Philippe NAMOUR) Date: Wed Feb 23 07:38:32 2005 Subject: [CP] Conference 2006 Maryland A 11:37 30/01/2005 +0000, David Ahrens a ?crit : >So, the 2006 ICPS Conference will be in Maryland. So it's Maryland for a >holiday next year, that's always my excuse to visit a part of the world >that I haven't been to before. I better start saving the pennies. I've >been to all the conferences except Japan, which was too expensive for me. >Talking of conferences, does anyone know anything about the EEE this year >? They delayed it last year because the ICPS conference was held in Europe >and it would clash with it. I think that it was the intention to hold it >in the Czech Republic somewhere. Does anyone know of a website or other >details ? Hello David Yes I have : http://www.darwiniana.cz/index.php?jazyknew=en&page=63 cordially Philippe >Regards >David Ahrens >London. > > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Wed Feb 23 08:57:42 2005 Subject: [CP] Conference 2006 Maryland Wow,the conference will be held here! Is it open to public or just orgs.? Wolf ----Original Message Follows---- Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group To: "David Ahrens" , Cp@omnisterra.com A 11:37 30/01/2005 +0000, David Ahrens a écrit : >So, the 2006 ICPS Conference will be in Maryland. So it's Maryland for a >holiday next year, that's always my excuse to visit a part of the world >that I haven't been to before. I better start saving the pennies. I've been >to all the conferences except Japan, which was too expensive for me. >Talking of conferences, does anyone know anything about the EEE this year ? >They delayed it last year because the ICPS conference was held in Europe >and it would clash with it. I think that it was the intention to hold it in >the Czech Republic somewhere. Does anyone know of a website or other >details ? Hello David Yes I have : http://www.darwiniana.cz/index.php?jazyknew=en&page=63 cordially Philippe >Regards >David Ahrens >London. > > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com Dr. Philippe Namour, Cemagref, URE QEPP, 3bis quai Chauveau, CP 200, F-69336 Lyon cedex 09, France http://www.lyon.cemagref.fr/lyon/, Phone:+33 4 72 20 87 56, Fax :+33 4 78 47 78 75 The contents of this message express only the sender's opinion _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Wed Feb 23 13:30:26 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Sarracenia That is right next to LBG (Lee's Botanical Gardens). If you go to www.lbg-cp.com or .net I cannot remmeber you can request a time to visit and buy plants ################### From: mrg40 at student.canterbury.ac.nz (Mikala Graham) Date: Wed Feb 23 17:45:38 2005 Subject: [CP] New Member Dave, Thanks for your reply, I will shift it (the Cephalotus)back from the window immediately and lower the water level. What you said also explains why all the others I have seen look so green compared to mine! How can you tell when the plant is big enough to take cuttings? is there a certain number or size of traps that I can use as a rule of thumb? Thanks again, Mikala. Dave Evans wrote: > Dear Mikala, > > > Welcome to the list. > > _Cephalotus_ is not very fond of heat. Also, they need the soil to > be less wet (more like permanently moist) than _Sarracenia_ soils. I doubt > the plastic bag would help. Probably some more shade during the hot part of > the day and less water will help your plant. > > Whenever I get a _Cephalotus_ plant I think it is a good idea to > make cuttings from it as soon as it is large enough. My experience with > _Cephalotus_ has been that it can grow for years, and then one day you find > all the roots have rotted. :( This is why it is best to make some cuttings > so there are separate plants just incase this disease strikes the original > plant. > > > Good luck, > Dave Evans > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On Behalf > Of Mikala Graham > Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 4:57 PM > > Hi, > My name is Mikala, I live in New Zealand & have just started getting > into carnivorous plants again. > I have various types of Sarracenia, including flava, leucophylla (sp?), > minor, purpurea, and some unknown hybrids. > I also have a Cephalotus (not the giant type), Venus flytrap and many > sundews which had seeded into the pots with others when I bought them. > > I have a quick question... > My Cephalotus has very deep red pitchers which seem to be slowly dying > off. it has produced a few new pitchers, but not as many as I would have > expected for how long I have had it, the pitchers appear quite spread > out and are not clumped in the centre as I have seen other plants. It > gets a lot of light and heat and is sitting in the same water tray as > all the others which are doing fine. Could this be due to too low > humidity? My other plants are all in full growth at the moment. > Will putting a plastic bag over the top with a small hole cut help? > > Thanks, > Mikala. > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: wwbielby at comcast.net (wwbielby@comcast.net) Date: Thu Feb 24 03:06:50 2005 Subject: [CP] Article in Italian magazine There is an interesting--let me rephrase that--an attractive article on CP in the current issue of an Italian home decorating magazine called BravaCasa. I say attractive because the pictures are well done--I can't read the text, but it amounts to only a couple of paragraphs, anyway. It seems to mention an Italian CP organization and perhaps a web site to order plants. BravaCasa, Marza 2005, pp 316-321. Enjoy if you have access--perhaps an Italian-speaking list member will have more useful comments. ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Thu Feb 24 09:54:33 2005 Subject: [CP] D. burmannii Beerwah Hi CPers, For the many of you that grow the sundew D. burmannii from Beerwah Queensland Australia and treasure collection data, here is a little more info. It was I that originally collected the plant in 1991, and through me it began its spread around the world. The plant has become so common I expect one day it may make the climb into the sky and spread beyond Earth. A friend (thanks Doug) I recently sent seed to found the meaning of the curious name Beerwah: http://www.nrm.qld.gov.au/about/media/may/06_town_names.html "Beerwah was also adapted from the Aboriginal Kabi language with words such as ‘birra’ meaning sky and ‘wandum’ for climbing up." Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: kdubash at vsnl.com (KDubash) Date: Thu Feb 24 22:20:02 2005 Subject: [CP] cp nurseries in Thailand Hi, I am visting Thailand, and want to purchase some cp's, if I can. Does anyone know of any sites/e-mail addresses of nurseries in Thailand that sell cp's? Thanks, Khushroo ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Fri Feb 25 12:57:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Sundews waking up Spring has come early here in the northeast. Since early February,some of my native lilies been popping out of the ground. And now my sundews are showing signs,they are breaking dormancy. Guess soon will the pitcher plants too? Wolf ################### From: Killerplants at aol.com (Killerplants@aol.com) Date: Fri Feb 25 16:47:10 2005 Subject: [CP] Re:Cp Nurseries in Thailand Try here :) Cheers, Joe Griffin Lincoln, NE USA ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Sat Feb 26 16:59:04 2005 Subject: [CP] re:sundews wakeing up did you say u live in the northeast? where abouts? i live in the northeast and im waiting for spring to come, if u live anywhere near me (massachusetts) hopefully spring is caomeing to me soon too! -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Sat Feb 26 17:46:15 2005 Subject: [CP] re:sundews wakeing up Yes,I live lower end of the northeast,in Maryland. I also read from other gardeners having there wildflowers popping up,and one cp grower S. flava growing flower stalk. some of my bladderworts came out of dormancy,and seeing signs of my Drosera filiformis var. filiformis and Drosera intermedia. And they are outside. I do have my Drosera rotundifolia in frig because I have some seeds in the pot of Drosera rotundifolia-NJ. The plants I think are southern varity? They go dormate later than other sundews. And only ones that I kept in the house all winter by the window are Drosera brevifolia-SC. And now seedlings of Drosera capillaris-SC Wolf ----Original Message Follows---- Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group To: Cp@omnisterra.com did you say u live in the northeast? where abouts? i live in the northeast and im waiting for spring to come, if u live anywhere near me (massachusetts) hopefully spring is caomeing to me soon too! -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Sat Feb 26 17:49:13 2005 Subject: [CP] US Sale: Qty. 1 U. purpurea,intermedia,and striata 1 Utricularia intermedia - $7 1. Utricularia purpurea - $4 1. Utricularia striata - 7 Plus $1 for Package/Postage Wolf ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Sun Feb 27 03:19:29 2005 Subject: [CP] Sundews waking up etc Wolf mentioned about Sundews waking up in the US north east and spring arriving. Here in the UK, well we thought that spring was arriving, but we have had a bout of snow for the past week. Nothing really severe though, it's just too warm. At least, it has not been too severe down in the south east. Scotland has had a bit more, I believe. I didn't want my pitcher plants to be hit and knocked back by the cold, so I brought them out of the garage a week ago, and put them on the kitchen windowsill. I don't think that the cold would normally be a problem for Sarracenia, but mine are about to break dormancy, so I didn't want that process disrupted. I kept my Sarracenia drier than I normally do, in an effort to stave off the dreaded grey mould. In fact I let them go almost bone dry. Every two or three weeks I would check them, and usually, put the pots in half an inch of water for exactly five minutes, no more. When I picked up the pots, it felt as though there was water in the first inch of the pot by the way the pot balanced. Most of the winter, the actual surface of the compost was dry or dryish. This technique has obviously worked for me, because I have had no grey mould whatsoever, which is great. I had some white mould on the sugary residue which the scale insects leave behind, but this hasn't spread to the plants themselves. I get a bit of scale sometimes, but for some reason, it seems to go away later in the year, whether predators visit my plants naturally I don't know. These days, I grow S.oreophila and S.purp venosa, I haven't got much room for much else, and they both grow well in a house situation. My VFT's are in the salad basket in the fridge. This is the first year that I have tried this, they normally go in the garage or stay on the windowsill, both have proved to unsatisfactory, either too warm or too cold. I've got some rhubarb seedlings on the windowsill at the moment. When they are planted out on the allotment, I will take the VFT's out of the fridge. I don't know about everyone else, but I always find this an exciting time of the year for CP's, everything breaking dormancy, and waiting for the first new pitchers to arrive, which are always so amazing, perfectly formed and colourful. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Sun Feb 27 08:04:07 2005 Subject: [CP] Sundews waking up etc Thats awsome David! I leave my warm-temps cps outside,unless its freezing out? And sometimes I just let the pots freeze fully for a day,then bring them so they not exposed to the freezing temps too long. This seems to work too in keeping the pots mold/fungi free. If they in the basement too long,I would mist the plants with little fungicide. But they never in the bast too long,maybe about a week,then out again when temps go above freezing. If freezing at night,I just bring them in for that night. But ones in a while let the pots freeze for a day. Wolf ----Original Message Follows---- Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group To: Cp@omnisterra.com Wolf mentioned about Sundews waking up in the US north east and spring arriving. Here in the UK, well we thought that spring was arriving, but we have had a bout of snow for the past week. Nothing really severe though, it's just too warm. At least, it has not been too severe down in the south east. Scotland has had a bit more, I believe. I didn't want my pitcher plants to be hit and knocked back by the cold, so I brought them out of the garage a week ago, and put them on the kitchen windowsill. I don't think that the cold would normally be a problem for Sarracenia, but mine are about to break dormancy, so I didn't want that process disrupted. I kept my Sarracenia drier than I normally do, in an effort to stave off the dreaded grey mould. In fact I let them go almost bone dry. Every two or three weeks I would check them, and usually, put the pots in half an inch of water for exactly five minutes, no more. When I picked up the pots, it felt as though there was water in the first inch of the pot by the way the pot balanced. Most of the winter, the actual surface of the compost was dry or dryish. This technique has obviously worked for me, because I have had no grey mould whatsoever, which is great. I had some white mould on the sugary residue which the scale insects leave behind, but this hasn't spread to the plants themselves. I get a bit of scale sometimes, but for some reason, it seems to go away later in the year, whether predators visit my plants naturally I don't know. These days, I grow S.oreophila and S.purp venosa, I haven't got much room for much else, and they both grow well in a house situation. My VFT's are in the salad basket in the fridge. This is the first year that I have tried this, they normally go in the garage or stay on the windowsill, both have proved to unsatisfactory, either too warm or too cold. I've got some rhubarb seedlings on the windowsill at the moment. When they are planted out on the allotment, I will take the VFT's out of the fridge. I don't know about everyone else, but I always find this an exciting time of the year for CP's, everything breaking dormancy, and waiting for the first new pitchers to arrive, which are always so amazing, perfectly formed and colourful. Regards David Ahrens London. _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Sun Feb 27 20:41:08 2005 Subject: [CP] Re:sundews wakeing up boy, i wish my plants would start to wake up and the native trees to strart growing.... ----- Original Message ----- To: Cp@omnisterra.com > > Send Cp mailing list submissions to > Cp@omnisterra.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > Cp-request@omnisterra.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > Cp-owner@omnisterra.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Cp digest..." > > > CP Mailing list > > Today's Topics: > > 1. re:sundews wakeing up (jon mungeam) > 2. RE: re:sundews wakeing up (Harry Q) > 3. US Sale: Qty. 1 U. purpurea,intermedia,and striata (Harry Q) > 4. Sundews waking up etc (David Ahrens) > 5. RE: Sundews waking up etc (Harry Q) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 09:01:04 +0800 > From: "jon mungeam" > Subject: [CP] re:sundews wakeing up > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050227010104.3FBB41027BE@ws3.hk5.outblaze.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > did you say u live in the northeast? where abouts? i live in the > northeast and im waiting for spring to come, if u live anywhere > near me (massachusetts) hopefully spring is caomeing to me soon too! > -- > _______________________________________________ > Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 20:45:14 -0500 > From: "Harry Q" > Subject: RE: [CP] re:sundews wakeing up > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > Yes,I live lower end of the northeast,in Maryland. I also read from other > gardeners having there wildflowers popping up,and one cp grower S. flava > growing flower stalk. > > some of my bladderworts came out of dormancy,and seeing signs of my Drosera > filiformis var. filiformis and Drosera intermedia. And they are outside. I > do have my Drosera rotundifolia in frig because I have some seeds in the pot > of Drosera rotundifolia-NJ. The plants I think are southern varity? They go > dormate later than other sundews. And only ones that I kept in the house all > winter by the window are Drosera brevifolia-SC. And now seedlings of Drosera > capillaris-SC > > Wolf > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "jon mungeam" > Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Subject: [CP] re:sundews wakeing up > Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 09:01:04 +0800 > > did you say u live in the northeast? where abouts? i live in the northeast > and im waiting for spring to come, if u live anywhere near me > (massachusetts) hopefully spring is caomeing to me soon too! > -- > _______________________________________________ > Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com > > Powered by Outblaze > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 20:48:04 -0500 > From: "Harry Q" > Subject: [CP] US Sale: Qty. 1 U. purpurea,intermedia,and striata > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > 1 Utricularia intermedia - $7 > > 1. Utricularia purpurea - $4 > > 1. Utricularia striata - 7 > > Plus $1 for Package/Postage > > Wolf > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 10:45:41 +0000 > From: "David Ahrens" > Subject: [CP] Sundews waking up etc > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > Wolf mentioned about Sundews waking up in the US north east and spring > arriving. > Here in the UK, well we thought that spring was arriving, but we have had a > bout of snow for the past week. Nothing really severe though, it's just too > warm. At least, it has not been too severe down in the south east. Scotland > has had a bit more, I believe. > I didn't want my pitcher plants to be hit and knocked back by the cold, so I > brought them out of the garage a week ago, and put them on the kitchen > windowsill. I don't think that the cold would normally be a problem for > Sarracenia, but mine are about to break dormancy, so I didn't want that > process disrupted. > I kept my Sarracenia drier than I normally do, in an effort to stave off the > dreaded grey mould. In fact I let them go almost bone dry. Every two or > three weeks I would check them, and usually, put the pots in half an inch of > water for exactly five minutes, no more. When I picked up the pots, it felt > as though there was water in the first inch of the pot by the way the pot > balanced. Most of the winter, the actual surface of the compost was dry or > dryish. > This technique has obviously worked for me, because I have had no grey mould > whatsoever, which is great. I had some white mould on the sugary residue > which the scale insects leave behind, but this hasn't spread to the plants > themselves. I get a bit of scale sometimes, but for some reason, it seems to > go away later in the year, whether predators visit my plants naturally I > don't know. > These days, I grow S.oreophila and S.purp venosa, I haven't got much room > for much else, and they both grow well in a house situation. > My VFT's are in the salad basket in the fridge. This is the first year that > I have tried this, they normally go in the garage or stay on the windowsill, > both have proved to unsatisfactory, either too warm or too cold. I've got > some rhubarb seedlings on the windowsill at the moment. When they are > planted out on the allotment, I will take the VFT's out of the fridge. > I don't know about everyone else, but I always find this an exciting time of > the year for CP's, everything breaking dormancy, and waiting for the first > new pitchers to arrive, which are always so amazing, perfectly formed and > colourful. > Regards > David Ahrens > London. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 11:03:18 -0500 > From: "Harry Q" > Subject: RE: [CP] Sundews waking up etc > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > > Thats awsome David! I leave my warm-temps cps outside,unless its freezing > out? And sometimes I just let the pots freeze fully for a day,then bring > them so they not exposed to the freezing temps too long. This seems to work > too in keeping the pots mold/fungi free. If they in the basement too long,I > would mist the plants with little fungicide. But they never in the bast too > long,maybe about a week,then out again when temps go above freezing. If > freezing at night,I just bring them in for that night. But ones in a while > let the pots freeze for a day. > > Wolf > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "David Ahrens" > Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Subject: [CP] Sundews waking up etc > Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 10:45:41 +0000 > > Wolf mentioned about Sundews waking up in the US north east and spring > arriving. > Here in the UK, well we thought that spring was arriving, but we have had a > bout of snow for the past week. Nothing really severe though, it's just too > warm. At least, it has not been too severe down in the south east. Scotland > has had a bit more, I believe. > I didn't want my pitcher plants to be hit and knocked back by the cold, so I > brought them out of the garage a week ago, and put them on the kitchen > windowsill. I don't think that the cold would normally be a problem for > Sarracenia, but mine are about to break dormancy, so I didn't want that > process disrupted. > I kept my Sarracenia drier than I normally do, in an effort to stave off the > dreaded grey mould. In fact I let them go almost bone dry. Every two or > three weeks I would check them, and usually, put the pots in half an inch of > water for exactly five minutes, no more. When I picked up the pots, it felt > as though there was water in the first inch of the pot by the way the pot > balanced. Most of the winter, the actual surface of the compost was dry or > dryish. > This technique has obviously worked for me, because I have had no grey mould > whatsoever, which is great. I had some white mould on the sugary residue > which the scale insects leave behind, but this hasn't spread to the plants > themselves. I get a bit of scale sometimes, but for some reason, it seems to > go away later in the year, whether predators visit my plants naturally I > don't know. > These days, I grow S.oreophila and S.purp venosa, I haven't got much room > for much else, and they both grow well in a house situation. > My VFT's are in the salad basket in the fridge. This is the first year that > I have tried this, they normally go in the garage or stay on the windowsill, > both have proved to unsatisfactory, either too warm or too cold. I've got > some rhubarb seedlings on the windowsill at the moment. When they are > planted out on the allotment, I will take the VFT's out of the fridge. > I don't know about everyone else, but I always find this an exciting time of > the year for CP's, everything breaking dormancy, and waiting for the first > new pitchers to arrive, which are always so amazing, perfectly formed and > colourful. > Regards > David Ahrens > London. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > End of Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 29 > ********************************** -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: naphat84 at msn.com (Naphat Panthukumphol) Date: Sun Feb 27 22:33:15 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Nepenthes nursery in Thailand I suggest Jatujak Market in Bangkok, thailand. However, Many of them come from Australia and Malesia nursery. Thai nepenthes are also found in this market with very cheap price. Good luck! have a nice trip! ################### From: o.marthaler at bluewin.ch (o.marthaler@bluewin.ch) Date: Mon Feb 28 13:58:06 2005 Subject: [CP] looking for Phill Mann Hi Phill, (sorry everybody, it's only "indirectly" addressed to you!) As I have had recent problems sending emails, I'm not sure my latest got to you correctly. It was sent on Feb. 17 from my usual address (o.marthaler@bluewin.ch) If you happened not to have received it, could you please be kind enough and get in contact with me ? In case you have received it OK, I can wait for a later reply, when you have more time, there's no hurry! All the best Phill (and everybody reading this mail!) OL from CH ################### From: Netmarketer1 at aol.com (Netmarketer1@aol.com) Date: Mon Feb 28 18:52:29 2005 Subject: [CP] Wetlands symposium in Central, VA Open invitation to all. FREE! ################### From: jaldridge at fwcds.org (James Aldridge) Date: Tue Mar 1 07:47:27 2005 Subject: [CP] inexpensive Nepenthes I was wandering around our Wal-Mart Supercenter last night and found six large Nepenthes for 1.60 each. They are unnamed, but they are great looking plants. Jim ====================================== James Aldridge Fort Worth Country Day School - www.fwcds.org Fort Worth, Texas, USA Departments of Science & Computer Science jaldridge@fwcds.org ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Tue Mar 1 07:59:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Wetlands symposium in Central, VA Me and my buddy is supose to be going on the 11th? Wolf ----Original Message Follows---- Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group To: Cp@omnisterra.com Open invitation to all. FREE! March 11, 2005 – A Symposium on the Identification, Restoration, and Synthesis of Seepage Wetlands in Maryland and Virginia. Caroline County Community Services Center 17202 Richmond Turnpike (Rt. 301), Milford, VA 22514. EVENTS LISITING: _http://www.pitcherplant.org/SpecialEvents.html_ (http://www.pitcherplant.org/SpecialEvents.html) GUEST SPEAKERS: _http://members.aol.com/alleng2397/symposium_presenters.jpg_ (http://members.aol.com/alleng2397/symposium_presenters.jpg) DIRECTIONS: _http://members.aol.com/alleng2397/symposium_directions.jpg_ (http://members.aol.com/alleng2397/symposium_directions.jpg) No registration required! Hope to see you there! Allen Gustin - email... _netmarketer1@aol.com_ (mailto:netmarketer1@aol.com) Meadowview Biological Research Station Database Mgr. _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Tue Mar 1 09:30:16 2005 Subject: [CP] strange development Hi all, I just noticed a strange development on my D. rotundifolia EverGrow. As you all know, I am big on doing hybridization experiments. I cross pollinated one of my plants and marked the flower with a thread as usual. This time while inspecting the capsule development I noticed something white protruding from the top of the capsule. It's a developing seed; the capsule is literally bursting with them. Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: ksanders at clas.ufl.edu (Keith Sanders) Date: Tue Mar 1 12:29:39 2005 Subject: [CP] CNN story about Darlingtonia CNN has a nice little story about Darlingtonia online: http://www.cnn.com/2005/TRAVEL/DESTINATIONS/03/01/oregon.park.ap/index.html ################### From: ullsperg at hotmail.com (Chris Ullsperger) Date: Tue Mar 1 13:53:20 2005 Subject: [CP] CP bogs now a popular travel destination???? http://www.cnn.com/2005/TRAVEL/DESTINATIONS/03/01/oregon.park.ap/index.html ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Tue Mar 1 14:45:23 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: inexpensive Nepenthes that is a good deal, but u need to be on your toes, stores like food stores and discount stores, if they have cps they might have gotten them from people who harvest them right out of thier own ecosystem!!! so if u find cps for cheap, especially vfts ask the manager of the store thier sources for the plants. -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: dh at twtl.com (Dennis) Date: Tue Mar 1 16:04:11 2005 Subject: [CP] Cephalotus Hummers Giant I have been looking for Cephalotus Hummers Giant. It does not seem to be on any retail growers list for sale. I have found the German giant form available, but some information indicates they are 2 separate varieties. Any information on where this plant might be purchased or traded would be appreciated. ################### From: CrazyEddie1981 at hotmail.com (Adam Sforza) Date: Wed Mar 2 04:36:11 2005 Subject: [CP] Sarracenia divisions ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Wed Mar 2 07:26:11 2005 Subject: [CP] You methodss of acidtising water? What is your methoods of acidtising water for your aquatic bladderworts? Sorry for any bad spelling? I also tried spell check,but it don't know much either. Wolf ################### From: jaldridge at fwcds.org (James Aldridge) Date: Wed Mar 2 12:35:47 2005 Subject: [CP] cheap Nepenthes I think my Walmart Nepenthes are pretty clearly hybrid clones. Jim ====================================== James Aldridge Fort Worth Country Day School - www.fwcds.org Fort Worth, Texas, USA Departments of Science & Computer Science jaldridge@fwcds.org ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Wed Mar 2 12:55:22 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: rotundifolia + mississippi bog Hey Everyone, Ivan I have heard that some Drosera do that sometimes. Unfortunatly another bog is being destroyed. One in mississippi due to oil drilling. I am not sure what Sarracenia are their yet but I know it has D. capillaris. I hope permits are obtained in time to rescue some plants. ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Thu Mar 3 07:49:44 2005 Subject: [CP] Drosera arenicola (Duida) flowering - photos :) Hi everyone, I'm very pleased to announce that a couple of my Drosera arenicola (Duida) are now flowering. I grew these from seed. Here are 2 photos: http://www.sundewgrower.com/pics/d_arenicola_2.24.05_1.1.jpg http://www.sundewgrower.com/pics/d_arenicola_2.24.05_1.jpg Here's another photo of a redder plant growing closer to the lights: http://www.sundewgrower.com/pics/arenicola_duida_11_25_03b.JPG And here's a photo of something I received labelled arenicola years ago which certainly is NOT arenicola: (NOT arenicola!!) http://sundewgrower.com/pics/arenicola.jpg (NOT arenicola!!) As of now, true Drosera arenicola is extremely rare in cultivation. I think I only known 1 other person who has true arenicola - most of the plants I've seen in collections labelled arenicola are NOT arenicola and aren't even from S.America. If you have plants labelled arenicola, now would be a good time to compare it to these pictures. I'd like to hear from anyone else who has true arenicola. I expect to offer plants of this for trade in the not to distant future, after I've taken care of my prior CP commitments. Thanks to the friend who generously provided me with this material (!) and to Pete Thiel for the web hosting and tech support. Matt -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Thu Mar 3 08:44:58 2005 Subject: [CP] CP in Jamaica Hey Folks, There's a short article on carnivorous plants in Jamaica. Nothing of significant new learning to the educated subscribers of this list. However, there is the interesting news that S. rubra and S. minor have both been inserted into the Jamaican flora: http://www.jamaicachm.org.jm/Articles/mason_river.asp Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Director of Conservation Programs The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Thu Mar 3 12:00:48 2005 Subject: [CP] CP in Jamaica And, as well, VFTs. I don't know if this bog has any elevation to it to make it more temperate, but Jamaica is pretty tropical. How do these plants survive without an adequate dormancy? I know we've had some discussions on this list previously from Hawai'ian members who have found difficulty in growing Sarracenias out their way. In a message dated 3/3/2005 8:45:29 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, bamrice@ucdavis.edu writes: There's a short article on carnivorous plants in Jamaica. Nothing of significant new learning to the educated subscribers of this list. However, there is the interesting news that S. rubra and S. minor have both been inserted into the Jamaican flora: http://www.jamaicachm.org.jm/Articles/mason_river.asp TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Thu Mar 3 12:10:07 2005 Subject: [CP] Mississippi bog Tre, You may wish to contact the Crosby Arboretum, Mississippi. They do bog rescues. My contact at the Crosby Arboretum, Bill Brzuzek, has gone, but the new curator is named Melinda Lyman. The web site for Crosby is: http://www.msstate.edu/dept/crec/camain.html Cheers Barry > Hey Everyone, > Ivan I have heard that some Drosera do that sometimes. > Unfortunatly another bog is being destroyed. One in > mississippi due to oil drilling. I am not sure what > Sarracenia are their yet but I know it has D. capillaris. I > hope permits are obtained in time to rescue some plants. > Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Director of Conservation Programs The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: RL7836 at earthlink.net (Ron Lane) Date: Thu Mar 3 13:21:27 2005 Subject: [CP] CP in Jamaica These plants (S. rubra, S. minor, VFT) were introduced in 1969/1975 and have apparently survived (thrived?) since then. Doesn't this throw doubt on their need for an annual rest period? I wouldn't think that there is much of a winter temperature differential. Ron To: Message-ID: <200503031644.j23Giprc020991@lisbon.ucdavis.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey Folks, There's a short article on carnivorous plants in Jamaica. Nothing of significant new learning to the educated subscribers of this list. However, there is the interesting news that S. rubra and S. minor have both been inserted into the Jamaican flora: http://www.jamaicachm.org.jm/Articles/mason_river.asp Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Director of Conservation Programs The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Thu Mar 3 16:32:12 2005 Subject: [CP] re: CP in Jamaica Hi Barry, Is that Drosera native to Jamaica or was it too a transplant? Thanks, Matt Message: 4 To: Message-ID: <200503031644.j23Giprc020991@lisbon.ucdavis.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey Folks, There's a short article on carnivorous plants in Jamaica. Nothing of significant new learning to the educated subscribers of this list. However, there is the interesting news that S. rubra and S. minor have both been inserted into the Jamaican flora: http://www.jamaicachm.org.jm/Articles/mason_river.asp Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Director of Conservation Programs The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ################### From: dinesh at ndbib.lanka.net (Dinesh Fernando) Date: Thu Mar 3 19:58:15 2005 Subject: [CP] Nepenthes distillatoria seeds I have some seeds of Nepenthes distillatoria that I would like to trade for seeds of other tropical lowland nepenthes species (very interested in Nepenthes northiana), tropical pings, and Sarracenia flava and S. alata. If anybody's interested, please contact me off list. Best regards, Dinesh e-mail: dinesh@ndbib.lanka.net ################### From: john.wilden at hmce.gsi.gov.uk (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) Date: Thu Mar 3 23:53:02 2005 Subject: [CP] Mason river minor Hey Barry and all, There's a short article on carnivorous plants in Jamaica. Nothing of significant new learning to the educated subscribers of this list. However, there is the interesting news that S. rubra and S. minor have both been inserted into the Jamaican flora: http://www.jamaicachm.org.jm/Articles/mason_river.asp Do you know if the photo of S. Minor is from the Jamaican site? Are the 'ripples' in the front rib normal? I've never noticed this in any of my own cultivated S. Minor, or on any other photo's of S. Minor, that I've previously seen. Regards John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Fri Mar 4 14:01:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: cheao cps thank goodness -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: MHowlett at hcp4.net (Howlett, Mike) Date: Fri Mar 4 15:24:59 2005 Subject: [CP] Big Thicket (and CPs) in danger due to drilling Barry and all - It has come to my attention (from herpetological sources, of all things) that gas/oil drilling is being conducted in the Big Thicket National Preserve of East Texas, and that the BTNP is in danger of increased drilling. I can't tell you how much I enjoy visiting the preserve to gawk at the fields of S. alata, D. brevifolia, D. capillaris and P. pumila, and the thought of even just having to listen to the drone of drilling equipment in the background while 'communing with nature' really upsets me. The following is a letter that was drafted by another concerned individual, which he has offered to allow all interested persons to use to express their dissatisfaction with the current trend toward increasing drilling on public lands. The deadline for sending your comments is this coming Thursday, March 10. Thanks for your help! February 27, 2005 Ms. Linda Dansby, EIS Project Manager Office of Minerals/Oil and Gas Support, Intermountain Region P.O. Box 728 Santa Fe, New Mexico 87504-0728 Dear Ms. Dansby: I am writing to urge the National Park Service to take steps that will protect the Big Thicket National Preserve (BTNP) from further damage from oil and gas drilling. Specifically, I urge the NPS to explore alternatives that would purchase the mineral rights under the BTNP, and/or disallow further oil and gas activities on the surface of BTNP. Within the Draft Oil/Gas Management Plan (DOGMP) and Draft Environmental Impact Statement (DEIS), the best alternative is "C" and if mineral rights are not to be acquired and if drilling on the surface is not to be prohibited, then I ask you to pursue "Alternative C." However, rather than letting the DOGMP and DEIS stand, I recommend that you withdraw these two drafts and revise them to include a complete qualitative/quantitative cumulative effects analysis, assessment, and evaluation based on the document, "Considering Cumulative Effects Under the National Environmental Policy Act." I object to any drilling in BTNP because of the habitat fragmentation and damage from the infrastructure needed for drilling, the toxic chemicals that may pollute the soil and water, and the noise and other factors that may adversely affect wildlife and most certainly would adversely affect human visitors. The Big Thicket is an irreplaceable, unique resource. It has already been reduced to a small fragment of its original scale. We must preserve what is left. Sincerely, Mike Howlett Naturalist, Herpetoculturist & Carnivorous Plant Enthusiast Jesse H. Jones Park & Nature Center 20634 Kenswick Drive Humble, TX 77338 281-446-8588 mhowlett@hcp4.net www.hcp4.net/jones > Hey Everyone, > Ivan I have heard that some Drosera do that sometimes. > Unfortunatly another bog is being destroyed. One in mississippi due > to oil drilling. I am not sure what Sarracenia are their yet but I > know it has D. capillaris. I hope permits are obtained in time to > rescue some plants. > > >Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. >Director of Conservation Programs >The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Sat Mar 5 13:30:00 2005 Subject: [CP] D. rotundifolia cultivar 'Charles Darwin'? Hi CPers, I am toying with the idea of registering a Drosera rotundifolia cultivar and wanted to run it by you all to see what you think. Many of you will know the unregistered cultivar that has gone around under the name EverGrow. Some have already expressed the opinion that this name is not suitable, and I have another idea now: Charles Darwin was one of us CPers, and was especially fond of the round-leaf sundew. Much of his book on CP was devoted to this plant. I would like to see a cultivar in honor of his name. Since EverGrow's uncharacteristic growth habit demonstrates the fallacy of the supposed "immutability of species" as Darwin showed, perhaps a cultivar 'Charles Darwin' is fitting? Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: RL7836 at earthlink.net (Ron Lane) Date: Sat Mar 5 18:07:10 2005 Subject: [CP] VFTs for Trade I finally got around to repotting my VFTs and it looks like I've got some spares: - Fused Tooth - Sawtooth - Shark's teeth / Dentate traps - Dingley's red/purple & possibly some others (Red Dragon, All Green, etc.) I'm looking for plants (or possibly seeds) of: - D. linearis - D. regia - D. prolifera, - D. falconeri, - D. petiolaris, - D. falconeri X D. petiolaris hybrid - N. ampullaria - VFTs that I do not have (request list if interested) - All-red S. flava from NC If you're interested in trading VFT or Sarracenia (for plants I do not have), let me know, I'll probably be doing Sarracenia next w/e. Also, if there are any teachers who would like some CP for school exhibits/instruction/etc - any spares may be available for postage - contact me. Please do not reply to list - I will ignore it. USA only. Ron Lane RL7836@earthlink.net Hunterdon County, NJ, USA ################### From: paul.temple at eds.com (Temple, Paul) Date: Sun Mar 6 10:29:16 2005 Subject: [CP] To CP Listserver Moderator (or anyone who understands) Hi. I just sent a couple of emails to the CP Listserver. I got back two bounce messages. Each email was "held" by the listserver, i.e. not posted, for the moderator to revue. The reason given was: "Message has a suspicious header" I posted the email from my PDA, a Treo 600 and it's highly unlikely it's got a virus. Email account is same as the one I'm using to send this. If the moderator or someone can tell me what the problem is I'd be keen to know! Paul ################### From: CALIFCARN at aol.com (CALIFCARN@aol.com) Date: Sun Mar 6 14:09:43 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Darwin cultivar ################### From: CSTERCHELE at aol.com (CSTERCHELE@aol.com) Date: Sun Mar 6 17:56:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Hello - My name is Cynthia. ################### From: sardonus at yahoo.com (Hamish McKellar) Date: Sun Mar 6 21:33:59 2005 Subject: [CP] Hello - My name is Cynthia. Cynthia, Welcome to CP fever. A you will find, it is an incurable and terribly expensive affliction. However it doesn't appear to be contagious (just ask the suffering partners of an sufferer). Some useful fora in relation to CP, including Nepenthes are: Terraforums: http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin/ib312/ikonboard.cgi CPUK Forum: http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/index.php These two are the most active, and deal with many basic questions. As for your questions re your N. Miranda, it is a highland hybrid, the older pitchers usually dry up after the shock of transportation, environmental change and repotting. The new pitchers will adapt to the new growing conditions (within reason). I'm not quite sure what the sphagnum peat is that you referred to is, but Nepenthes (unlike Sarracenia)like a free-draining, airy mix. So sphagnum moss, often mixed with things such as orchid bark, perlite and coconut husk, is a good mix for most highland species. Some lowlanders don't mind a more peaty mix, but none I've grown have ever objected to sphagnum. As for acclimatising your other CPs, it depends on how different your outdoor climate is. One idea is to take them out and put them over them a plastic container (keeping them out of the sun of course), slowly open the container over a period of weeks to let them adjust gradually. The older growth will often die off, but the new growth should adapt. Cheers, Hamish http://www.nepenthesforeveryone.com --- CSTERCHELE@aol.com wrote: > Hello - My name is Cynthia. I live in Central > Florida. Gardening has been my > passion in life for years, but somehow, I never had > any CPs until recently. > Now I'm hooked! I joined this discussion group a > week ago because I have > soooo much to learn. I received an email saying > it's customary to send a self > introduction --- so here it is. Although I've been > reading the daily > mailings, I must admit, most of the content is way > over my head. I need to find a > "CP for Dummies" discussion group. A mere three > months ago, I bought my first > carnivorous plant. I was in Home Depot and saw a > Nepenthes Miranda. I fell in > love. After I bought the Nep, I went straight to a > book store and picked up > two books: "The Savage Garden" (D'Amato) and > "Gardening with Carnivores" > (Romanowski). About six weeks ago, I bought a > Sarracenia purpurea. I keep the > Nep and Sarracenia outside on my front porch. Since > buying the two plants, I > repotted them in larger pots with a mix of sphagnum > peat and perlite. I water > the plants with distilled water, and mist them > daily. The Sarracenia is > doing fantastic. The Nep is okay, but I don't > think it's in perfect condition. > Most of the pitchers have dried up. On the positive > side, the plant has lots > of new growth to include tendrils with baby hooks > (that I hope will become > pitchers). This weekend, I made the mistake of > going to Lowe's. While there, I > saw a shelf with CPs in little plastic boxes. I > ended up buying a little > VFT and a Sundew. I want to transition these plants > from their miniature > terrariums to my porch (along with my other CPs). I > haven't a clue if this is > doable, nor do I know how to minimize the shock > from a significant environment > change. Any help would be greatly appreciated. > Here's my top three questions > -- 1) Should I cut off Nep pitchers that have > dried up? 2) Is the Miranda a > highland or lowland species? The tag didn't say. > 3) How should I > transition the VFT and Sundew from the plastic boxes > to my front porch? > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Sun Mar 6 21:46:48 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Darwin cultivar "Charlie's Paddle"? Gary Kong CALIFCARN@aol.com wrote: >Ivan, I've been thinking of a Darwin cultivar for many years, and think >your plants would be so apt since Darwin, according to a letter he >wrote to Asa Gray, said "I care more about sundews than the origin of >all the species of life on earth." How about "Chuck Darwin"? Seeya, >Peter at California Carnivores. >_______________________________________________ Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: n.bellii at netzero.net (n.bellii@netzero.net) Date: Mon Mar 7 04:45:15 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Drosera "Charles Darwin" Hello Ivan, I think it would be a great name for the cultivar! I don't recall the exact quote, but I believe I recall reading that Darwin thought if he had spent his whole life studying Drosera, he would have avoided much of the controversy around him. Ya, right! (are you certain your plant is a pure _D. rotundifolia_ species, or should we all argue about it?) Steven Stewart Florida, USA ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Mon Mar 7 10:50:51 2005 Subject: [CP] Tough love reminder Hey Folks, Well, I just had about 8 hours sucked out of my life this weekend, preparing reminder postcards for all 788 ICPS members who have not yet renewed their memberships for this year (and lapsed members from 2003). That's a lot of mailing labels, and a lot of self-adhesive stamps. I think that the fingerprints on my hands have been pulled off. I'm a little grumpy about it right now, so don't send me any apologies---they won't be well-received. Instead, just send Cindy Slezak (cslezak@earthlink.net) your annual membership payment ($25). Just send her the payment via credit card or check or cash, and include your name and mailing address. She'll take care of the rest. And for the next few days, if you happen to see this very grumpy CPN editor walking along the street, your best bet would be to cross the street before he reached you. Later! Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Grumpy Coeditor The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Mon Mar 7 12:23:00 2005 Subject: [CP] bladder and butte worts germination? If you grew any of these from seeds,how long it took for them to germinate for you? And what is your method? Trying Grow From Seeds: Horned Bladderwort Utricularia carnuta Southern Bladderwort Utricularia juncea Violet Butterwort Pinguicula caerulea Yellow Butterwort Pinguicula lutea Dwarf Butterwort Pinguicula pumila Venus Flytrap Dionaea muscipala var. heterophlla Wolf ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Mon Mar 7 12:24:56 2005 Subject: [CP] Welcome Cynthia Welcome to our group Cynthia. Obviously, you're another mug that fell for that one one about putting something about yourself on the listserv. I think that Rick must have left that on accidently, on the 'help' instructions. We all fall for that one. You only have to put'David Ahrens' into Google these days, and you get my introduction to the listserv, and some cancer specialist in Massachusetts. Only joking, it's rather nice to see who is out there, don't let me put you off. You'll have to see if you like the UK forum, I don't, but every other nutter seems to. I got myself banned from it a while back, the moderators are so touchy, something to do with my nymphomaniac sister, and a boy who had an illness that was based on fantasy. Enjoy the listserv, it can get heated sometimes, but we all enjoy it that way. Rule number one, no poofters ! Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: ksanders at clas.ufl.edu (Keith Sanders) Date: Mon Mar 7 12:30:25 2005 Subject: [CP] Hello - My name is Cynthia. Hi Cynthia, I live in Gainesville. I've had pretty good luck using a peat/sand mix for my Sarracenia and VFT's, and pure spaghnum for Nepenthes and Pinguilata. So far, that is. I'm still a relative newbie, despite being interested in them for a few years now. Our Lowes carries the plastic boxes too. I've only purchased one so far - a Darlingtonia. I wasn't able to keep it alive though - I understand that they're picky about the temperatures that they're kept in, so Florida is a little too warm for them, I think. If I remember right, it came potted in spaghnum moss, so it wasn't a big deal to eventually move it outside. They're pretty hardy, so I imagine that you won't have any problems transplanting them into another terrarium outside. thanks, Keith CSTERCHELE@aol.com wrote: > Hello - My name is Cynthia. I live in Central Florida. Gardening has > been my passion in life for years, but somehow, I never had any CPs > until recently. Now I'm hooked! I joined this discussion group a > week ago because I have soooo much to learn. I received an email > saying it's customary to send a self introduction --- so here it is. > Although I've been reading the daily mailings, I must admit, most of > the content is way over my head. I need to find a "CP for Dummies" > discussion group. A mere three months ago, I bought my first > carnivorous plant. I was in Home Depot and saw a Nepenthes Miranda. > I fell in love. After I bought the Nep, I went straight to a book > store and picked up two books: "The Savage Garden" (D'Amato) and > "Gardening with Carnivores" (Romanowski). About six weeks ago, I > bought a Sarracenia purpurea. I keep the Nep and Sarracenia outside > on my front porch. Since buying the two plants, I repotted them in > larger pots with a mix of sphagnum peat and perlite. I water the > plants with distilled water, and mist them daily. The Sarracenia is > doing fantastic. The Nep is okay, but I don't think it's in perfect > condition. Most of the pitchers have dried up. On the positive side, > the plant has lots of new growth to include tendrils with baby hooks > (that I hope will become pitchers). This weekend, I made the mistake > of going to Lowe's. While there, I saw a shelf with CPs in little > plastic boxes. I ended up buying a little VFT and a Sundew. I want > to transition these plants from their miniature terrariums to my porch > (along with my other CPs). I haven't a clue if this is doable, nor do > I know how to minimize the shock from a significant environment > change. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Here's my top three > questions -- 1) Should I cut off Nep pitchers that have dried up? 2) > Is the Miranda a highland or lowland species? The tag didn't say. 3) > How should I transition the VFT and Sundew from the plastic boxes to > my front porch? _______________________________________________ Cp > mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com -- Keith Sanders Systems Programmer CLASnet - College of Liberal Arts Network University of Florida PO Box 112034 Gainesville, FL 32611 ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Mon Mar 7 12:55:38 2005 Subject: [CP] Welcome Cynthia Well, speak for yourself, mate. I never did post anything at all about myself, and thus retain my mysterious hermitic profile to the majority of the great unwashed out there. In a message dated 3/7/2005 12:25:40 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, nepenthesdave@hotmail.com writes: Obviously, you're another mug that fell for that one one about putting something about yourself on the listserv. I think that Rick must have left that on accidently, on the 'help' instructions. We all fall for that one. TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (fe_riva) Date: Mon Mar 7 13:19:31 2005 Subject: [CP] Tough love reminder And don't forget that Barry is a karate black belt!!!!!!!!!! 8-0 > > Hey Folks, > > Well, I just had about 8 hours sucked out of my life this weekend, preparing > reminder postcards for all 788 ICPS members who have not yet renewed their > memberships for this year (and lapsed members from 2003). > > That's a lot of mailing labels, and a lot of self-adhesive stamps. I think > that the fingerprints on my hands have been pulled off. > > I'm a little grumpy about it right now, so don't send me any > apologies---they won't be well-received. Instead, just send Cindy Slezak > (cslezak@earthlink.net) your annual membership payment ($25). Just send her > the payment via credit card or check or cash, and include your name and > mailing address. She'll take care of the rest. > > And for the next few days, if you happen to see this very grumpy CPN editor > walking along the street, your best bet would be to cross the street before > he reached you. > > Later! > > Barry > > Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. > Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Grumpy Coeditor > The International Carnivorous Plant Society > http://www.carnivorousplants.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com __________________________________________________________________________ Acabe com aquelas janelinhas que pulam na sua tela. AntiPop-up UOL - ? gr?tis! http://antipopup.uol.com.br/ ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Mon Mar 7 17:00:27 2005 Subject: [CP] Photos of rare Utricularia Hiroshi Wakabayashi has posted some of the only photos that I have seen of: U. fistulosa: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-fistul.htm U. hirta: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-hirta.htm U. holtzei: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-holtze.htm U. kamienskii: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-kamien.htm U. kimberleyensis: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-kimber.htm U. limosa: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-limosa.htm U. muelleri: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-muelle.htm U. punctata: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-puncta.htm U. purpureocaerulea: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-purpuo.htm U. quinquedentata: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-quinqu.htm U. singeriana: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-singer.htm U. triflora: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-triflo.htm -Bob- ################### From: nepenthes at borneoexotics.com (Borneo Exotics (Pvt) Ltd) Date: Mon Mar 7 20:31:48 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Tough love reminder Rob Cantley Borneo Exotics (Pvt) Ltd www.borneoexotics.com Oops! > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 10:50:37 -0800 > From: "Barry Rice" > Subject: [CP] Tough love reminder > To: > Cc: 'Cindy Slezak' > Message-ID: <200503071850.j27IobZF005993@havana.ucdavis.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > Hey Folks, > > Well, I just had about 8 hours sucked out of my life this > weekend, preparing > reminder postcards for all 788 ICPS members who have not yet > renewed their > memberships for this year (and lapsed members from 2003). > > That's a lot of mailing labels, and a lot of self-adhesive > stamps. I think > that the fingerprints on my hands have been pulled off. > > I'm a little grumpy about it right now, so don't send me any > apologies---they won't be well-received. Instead, just send > Cindy Slezak > (cslezak@earthlink.net) your annual membership payment ($25). > Just send her > the payment via credit card or check or cash, and include > your name and > mailing address. She'll take care of the rest. > > And for the next few days, if you happen to see this very > grumpy CPN editor > walking along the street, your best bet would be to cross the > street before > he reached you. > > Later! > > Barry > > Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. > Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Grumpy Coeditor > The International Carnivorous Plant Society > http://www.carnivorousplants.org > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > End of Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 7 > ********************************* > ################### From: mtalt at hort.net (Marge Talt) Date: Mon Mar 7 22:13:27 2005 Subject: [CP] APHIS proposed changes to nursery stock regulations Dear All, You may or may not be aware that USDA-APHIS is proposing major changes in the regulations for the importation of nursery stock, i.e. what they are now calling "plants for planting", which means ALL plant parts capable of growing - rooted and non-rooted cuttings and plants, seeds, corms, bulbs and tubers. This post is late in the day since the public comment period ends Thursday, March 10, however I have not had a chance to write about this until now for various reasons I will not bore you with. First, I apologize to those of you on more than one of the lists I'm posting this on, but I think it's important to try to summarize the main points of the proposed regulation that affect nursery and plantspeople the most....at least my take on it after many readings of same. It is VERY important that everyone in the nursery or green industry get busy and read this document and post your comments; it's going to affect your business and you might as well let them know about it before the fact rather than after the fact when it is too late for your comments to do any good. To find the docket go to: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ppd/rad/webrepor/ppq.html scroll down to: Docket # 03-069-1 - APHIS-2004-0024 - Nursery Stock Regulations The docket is available in .pdf format You can also read current comments online. This is a complex document. It appears that APHIS is caught between a rock and a hard place here. * They seriously lack the information necessary to propose intelligent and workable changes to the current regulations. * They are required by law to propose these changes. * They have a mandate to protect this country from ALL pests, of all types, now known, unknown or as yet undiscovered. This is not a realistic goal, but it is their mandate by law. * They are also required by law to NOT adversely affect small business and international trade by any regulations they enact. * They must also comply with the mandates of the WTO-SPS treaty. * They are not funded for any new programs or additional personnel nor does additional funding look like it will be available any time in the foreseeable future. * They are requesting specific information from the public to assist them in formulating changes to current regulations via the Federal Register - a document read by few, but the primary way that they currently announce what they are doing. Thus, news of their proposals takes a long time to trickle down to those most affected by them. Most of the information they seek; indeed, most of the specific questions they ask, can best be answered by those in the nursery industry. However, that does not mean that we can'