################### From: AppleCakeTeaRoom at aol.com (AppleCakeTeaRoom@aol.com) Date: Sat Jan 1 13:20:01 2005 Subject: [CP] Narcotic Effect of CPs Happy New Years to everyone! May it be a prosperous year for CP habitats. Thank you Dave and everyone who responded to my question about the upper pitchers in Nepenthes, it was exactly as I had thought. I've got one quick question, does anyone know the name or names of the compounds in Sarracenias and Nepenthes which cause the drunken like effect in insects, which lowers their inhibitions, before they make a wrong step and tumble into the pitfall traps? I remember reading the name of at least one compound in a research paper, but for the life of me, I just can't find that information any longer. Much appreciated, thank you! ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Sat Jan 1 16:36:59 2005 Subject: [CP] Edward VII and Sarracenia Happy New Year CPers, I will start the year off with a curious historical finding for you Sarracenia lovers. It seems there are Sarracenia pitchers depicted in a very old oil painting of Edward VII, King of England. You can have a look at what Ed Read and I found in the articles on the Los Angeles CP Society web site www.geocities.com/lacps. Here is the link: http://www.geocities.com/lacps/kingedward.html . Maybe others can track down more info on this. Ed first spotted it as we were studying a book and jokingly said, "hey, check out the pitcher plants in this painting". After looking at the image more, I can't think of anything else but pitcher the objects could be. What do you all think? Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ________________________________________________________________ Juno Gift Certificates Give the gift of Internet access this holiday season. http://www.juno.com/give ################### From: david.ahrens at btopenworld.com (DAVID AHRENS) Date: Sun Jan 2 03:50:13 2005 Subject: [CP] germinating and storing butterwort and bladderwort seed ################### From: parsont at peak.org (Louise Parsons) Date: Sun Jan 2 04:40:28 2005 Subject: [CP] Edward VII and Sarracenia Golly, I hope that I am wrong on this, because it is so much more fun to think of pitchers. However, I am pretty certain that those are the typical stylized feathers of the Royal Family. They appear in the modern-day crest of the Prince of Wales. See: http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/ Happy New Year to all CP enthusiasts. Although I am an experienced gardener, I am new to CP. All of the tiny new seedling pitchers that are growing in pots on my screened back porch are such a joy. All the best, Louise Corvallis, ORegon http://www.peak.org/~parsont/rockgard/ > > > Happy New Year CPers, I will start the year off with a curious > historical finding for you Sarracenia lovers. It seems there are > Sarracenia pitchers depicted in a very old oil painting of Edward VII, > King of England. You can have a look at what Ed Read and I found in > the articles on the Los Angeles CP Society web site > www.geocities.com/lacps. Here is the link: > http://www.geocities.com/lacps/kingedward.html . ################### From: cp at pwilson.demon.co.uk (Phil Wilson) Date: Sun Jan 2 05:18:55 2005 Subject: [CP] Edward VII and Sarracenia Louise, Ivan et al, You are absolutely right. No pitchers or aliens from out of space. The "pitchers" are in fact the Prince of Wales' Feathers. See http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/about/rol_feathers.html for details. Before becoming king he would of course have been given the traditional title of Prince of Wales. This despite probably only having a vague idea where Wales was....:-) Phil Wilson --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Are you still wasting your time with spam?... There is a solution!" Protected by GIANT Company's Spam Inspector The most powerful anti-spam software available. http://mail.spaminspector.com ----- Original Message ----- To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" Cc: Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 12:42 PM > Golly, I hope that I am wrong on this, because it is so much more fun to > think > of pitchers. However, I am pretty certain that those are the typical > stylized > feathers of the Royal Family. They appear in the modern-day crest of the > Prince > of Wales. See: > > http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/ > > > Happy New Year to all CP enthusiasts. Although I am an experienced > gardener, I > am new to CP. All of the tiny new seedling pitchers that are growing in > pots on > my screened back porch are such a joy. > > All the best, Louise > Corvallis, ORegon > http://www.peak.org/~parsont/rockgard/ > >> >> Happy New Year CPers, >> I will start the year off with a curious historical finding for you >> Sarracenia >> lovers. It seems there are Sarracenia pitchers depicted in a very old oil >> painting of Edward VII, King of England. You can have a look at what Ed >> Read and >> I found in the articles on the Los Angeles CP Society web site >> www.geocities.com/lacps. Here is the link: >> http://www.geocities.com/lacps/kingedward.html . > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Sun Jan 2 09:50:09 2005 Subject: [CP] Cool Sarracenia web page Yeah, I know, this isn't about Drosera, but I thought some of you might like this web page I found recently: http://hometown.aol.com/atlfinegardens/page1.html Happy new year, MaTT -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sun Jan 2 12:11:10 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Royal Crest Sorry Ivan those are definatly feathers. Tre ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sun Jan 2 12:12:41 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: wilkerson red So thats what my 'wilkerson red' will look like when they are all grown up ;) ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Sun Jan 2 13:52:32 2005 Subject: [CP] etc..., ETC Really!! Hey Mike!! Happy 2005!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry for taking so long to reply!! I got caught up with all the festivities! ;) > The reason I emailed was to ask you the camera that you used to take the > pictures of the sundews? You probably told me in Mexico but I do not > remember. Could you refresh my memory? It's a Nikon 5400! > PS. The trip to Macchu Piccu never happened because of a couple of > hurricanes. Maybe you heard about that? Anyway, glad I was here to protect > my stuff! Geez, what a bummer!!!!!!! Take Care, Fernando ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Sun Jan 2 14:33:15 2005 Subject: [CP] etc..., ETC Really!! Oops! Sorry guys, that was supposed to have been a private mail! ;) ----- Original Message ----- To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 07:52 PM ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Sun Jan 2 18:50:18 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: D. oblanceeolata Dave & Ivan, Sorry to reply late to your posts about D.meristocaulis, D.oblanceolata, D.spatulata & D.neocaledonica, but here goes... First, I think D.meristocaulis will probably NOT be fertile with any pygmy, but it's worth a try! They do seem to be more closely related, but we don't know yet for sure. As for D.oblanceolata, D.spatulata, & D.neocaledonica they're all very close, especially D.the latter 2. The main difference between D.oblanceolata & D.spatulata is that the former has a little apical split in the styles, if I remember well. Otherwise D.oblanceolata is a large D.spatulata with semi-erect leaves. D.neocaledonica doesn't look superficially like D.oblanceolata & D.spatulata, but it is very close to the spatulata-complex according to DNA data. In fact they are all found at a very interesting spot of the phylogenetic tree, where 3 important sundew branches emerge: -- A mostly 2n=20 branch which includes New World & N temperate species like D.rotundifolia, D.filiformis, D.capillaris, D.roraimae, D.communis, D.hirtella, D.felix, D.kaieteurensis, D.brevifolia, D.intermedia & D.cayennensis. -- A branch with 2n=40 species found mostly in Brazil: D.villosa complex, D.montana complex, D.graminifolia & D.chrysolepis -- An "multiploid" branch that includes almost all the African species (except D.indica, D.regia & D.insolita I think) all the way from D.natalensis to D.cistiflora The interesting part of finding D.oblanceolata, D.spatulata & D.neocaledonica located more or less at the base of these 3 branches suggests that all those plants are probably descended from plants that originated somewhere between Asia & Australia/ NZ. Just below these 3 branches on the family tree is a small branch with 2 species: D.uniflora from Chile/ Argentina and D.stenopetala from New Zealand.... hmmm more hints that the ancestors of these plants were all located around Australia/ NZ (and maybe Antarctica at some point in time). Happy 2005 to all, Fernando Rivadavia Sao Paulo, Brazil ################### From: stephenwd at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Davis) Date: Sun Jan 2 20:41:32 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Royal Crest I read once that alcoholics will see a fifth wherever they look. They have been known to reach into someones back pocket, steal their wallet, only to be disappointed to find that that bulge in the back pocket was not a fifth of alcohol, but a useless wallet. Stephen Davis stephenwd@sbcglobal.net www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com -----Original Message----- Of Tre Bond Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 12:11 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Sorry Ivan those are definatly feathers. Tre __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: ClaraVoiAunt at aol.com (ClaraVoiAunt@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 2 23:13:21 2005 Subject: [CP] This isn't Drosera Matt, Thanx for sharing this page. It is wonderful. It also led me to some other pages of the ICPS that I haven't been able to access . Lois In a message dated 1/2/05 12:02:49 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: To: "cp list" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Yeah, I know, this isn't about Drosera, but I thought some of you might like this web page I found recently: http://hometown.aol.com/atlfinegardens/page1.html Happy new year, MaTT ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Mon Jan 3 04:28:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Narcotic Effect of CPs Christine asked about the narcotic substances in Sarracenia and Nepenthes, which drug the insect visiters to these plants. The substance in Sarracenia is coniine. I wasn't too sure that Nepenthes secrete a paralysing substance. I have looked this up in 'The Carnivorous Plants' by Juniper Robins and Joel. On page 242, they discuss the paralysing and wetting agents that might be secreted by carnivorous plants. They say that only Sarracenia contains a paralysing agent in it's trap, it is alone in the CP world for having an agent of this sort. Page 62 also says that it is suggested that Nepenthes pitcher fluid contains a wetting agent. It goes on to say that there is little evidence for this. I am a little bit confused because page 62 says that the liquid in the base of the pitcher has a 'soapiness' about it and says that this may be the result of polysaccharides discharged into the pitcher fluid. So there does seem to be evidence of a wetting agent in the traps, the book seems to contradict itself. Hope this helps. Regards David Ahrens. London. ################### From: dglidden at illusionary.com (Derek Glidden) Date: Mon Jan 3 08:55:35 2005 Subject: [CP] Narcotic Effect of CPs David Ahrens wrote: > Christine asked about the narcotic substances in Sarracenia and > Nepenthes, which drug the insect visiters to these plants. > The substance in Sarracenia is coniine. > They say that only Sarracenia > contains a paralysing agent in it's trap, it is alone in the CP world > for having an agent of this sort. I could swear that I've read somewhere that certain species of Nepenthes also contain some sort of anaesthetising agent in the pitchers. In particular, I remember references to species like N.inermis with open pitchers, and for some reason I also want to think that N.alata was mentioned. After reading and discovering that I was growing a couple of species mentioned, I even did very unscientific experiements by dropping crickets into the larger pitchers and jiggling them around to see how long I could keep them moving, and the species mentioned definitely had a much shorter time before the crickets stopped wriggling around in the pitcher fluid. Of course whatever it was I was reading could have been wrong and my experiment was totally bogus in terms of real science, but Christine isn't the only person to have heard that some Nepenthes may have anaesthetic or narcotic properties. ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Mon Jan 3 09:54:07 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Edward VII and Sarracenia Hi Louise, Phil, and all, Gee, that had not even occured to me. That clears up that mystery, thanks. The objects surely are feathers. Oh well, on to other mysteries. Ivan ________________________________________________________________ Juno Gift Certificates Give the gift of Internet access this holiday season. http://www.juno.com/give ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Mon Jan 3 14:15:57 2005 Subject: [CP] Narcotic Effect of CPs Dear Derek, The special technique _Nepenthes inermis_ uses to catch prey involves a sticky substance which, conveyor-belt-like, flows down the walls of the inside of the pitchers. It is so viscous that rain has a difficult time washing away anything already glued to it. _Nepenthes_, I feel, would have to be tested again and again for each species, in order to rule out this possibility. Think about how different some species are. I'm sure they are also able to make different chemicals, perhaps not those which drug insects, but we can't rule it out yet. Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of Derek Glidden Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 11:55 AM To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group David Ahrens wrote: > Christine asked about the narcotic substances in Sarracenia and > Nepenthes, which drug the insect visiters to these plants. > The substance in Sarracenia is coniine. > They say that only Sarracenia > contains a paralysing agent in it's trap, it is alone in the CP world > for having an agent of this sort. I could swear that I've read somewhere that certain species of Nepenthes also contain some sort of anaesthetising agent in the pitchers. In particular, I remember references to species like N.inermis with open pitchers, and for some reason I also want to think that N.alata was mentioned. ################### From: ThomBroGar at aol.com (ThomBroGar@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 3 14:38:39 2005 Subject: [CP] Re:"Wilkerson's Red" Tre, What I sent you was seed from "Wilkerson's Red" open pollinated in the field. Unfortunately, the seedlings I have are coming out more leuco. and moorei than true to "Wilkerson's Red." I hope you are not to disappointed. I was but, that's the way the genes fall sometimes. ################### From: cp at pwilson.demon.co.uk (Phil Wilson) Date: Mon Jan 3 14:50:47 2005 Subject: [CP] Narcotic Effect of CPs Dave, That explains the tiny (fruit?) flies stuck to the inside of my N. inermis pitchers! Phil Wilson >The special technique _Nepenthes inermis_ uses to catch prey >involves a sticky substance which, conveyor-belt-like, flows down the walls >of the inside of the pitchers. It is so viscous that rain has a difficult >time washing away anything already glued to it. ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Mon Jan 3 16:51:30 2005 Subject: [CP] Nepenthes inermis Hi Phil, Yeah, I think this one is the only _Nepenthes_ that utilizes a passive fly-paper trap. While the fluid does flow down the walls into the pitcher, I don't think the plant actually makes more of this material in response to the presence of prey items, nor does the pitcher 'move', like how _Drosera_ do. Also, I'm not sure how effective the trap would be for moving prey into the digestive zone in lower humidity, perhaps it dries a bit and cannot flow, but becomes merely sticky? Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of Phil Wilson Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 5:51 PM To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Dave, That explains the tiny (fruit?) flies stuck to the inside of my N. inermis pitchers! Phil Wilson >The special technique _Nepenthes inermis_ uses to catch prey >involves a sticky substance which, conveyor-belt-like, flows down the walls >of the inside of the pitchers. It is so viscous that rain has a difficult >time washing away anything already glued to it. ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Mon Jan 3 22:25:24 2005 Subject: [CP] Narcotics in pitcher fluid Derek Glidden wrote:- I could swear that I've read somewhere that certain species of Nepenthes also contain some sort of anaesthetising agent in the pitchers. In particular, I remember references to species like N.inermis with open pitchers, and for some reason I also want to think that N.alata was mentioned. After reading and discovering that I was growing a couple of species mentioned, I even did very unscientific experiements by dropping crickets into the larger pitchers and jiggling them around to see how long I could keep them moving, and the species mentioned definitely had a much shorter time before the crickets stopped wriggling around in the pitcher fluid. Of course whatever it was I was reading could have been wrong and my experiment was totally bogus in terms of real science, but Christine isn't the only person to have heard that some Nepenthes may have anaesthetic or narcotic properties. Very interesting. Regards David Ahrens London PS- someone who hasn't got anything better to do with their time in the US government will be searching the web for references to narcotics and will find the CP listserv. We will all have to watch what we say from now on. Big Brother will be watching. :-) ################### From: Lars at Timmann.de (Lars Timmann) Date: Tue Jan 4 02:27:20 2005 Subject: [CP] Narcotics in pitcher fluid Hi, I hope you discuss silently about this. Not that we cannot send plants because of drugs inside infuture. Aren't they optical psychedelic enough ;-)? Happy new year and so on... Lars -- "There is always an easy solution to every human problem - neat, plausible and wrong." (Henry Louis Mencken (1880-1956) American journalist and social critic) _______________________________________________________________________ Lars Timmann Lars@Timmann.de http://lars.timmann.de/ http://www.fleischfressendepflanzen.de/ 22393 Hamburg ################### From: rhillier at swconnection.com (Rick Hillier) Date: Tue Jan 4 13:13:51 2005 Subject: [CP] Where Can I Purchase Cephalotus - I Live In Southern Ontario, Greetings, I just lost a cephalotus follicularis plant that I had for many years. It never really flourished, but it did grow slowly and stayed about the same size throughout its life. I don't think my conditions were optimal for it (soil-wise). I am looking to obtain several new plants that I could experiment with in terms of different soil mixes. Is there anyone out there who can ship within or to Canada (particularly, Southern Ontario)? I realize that it may be prudent to wait until spring unless someone is within driving distance of Kitchener, Ontario and I could arrange to pick them up in person. Also, would anyone who has had success be able to share their secrets??? While I'm at it, are there any species of Heliamphora that are relatively easy to grow, or do they need special requirements in terms of cool and humid. I can provide warm and humid via enclosed aquariums under either fluorescents or metal halides... Thanks in advance, Rick Hillier http://www.swconnection.com/cp ################### From: AppleCakeTeaRoom at aol.com (AppleCakeTeaRoom@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 4 22:28:05 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Narcotic Effect of CPs Thank you for the looking up the name! I couldn't recall what it was exactly but the drug name "codeine" kept popping into my head, although I know it wasn't the drug. But its "Coniine!" LOL, atleast I was close :-) I looked up a little about coniine, I found it to be quite interesting: _http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/webprojects2001/gerrard/coniine.html_ (http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/webprojects2001/gerrard/coniine.html) ~Christine the CPer and Lucy the Giant Schnauzer ################### From: westaustralia at libero.it (Cristiano Perrucci) Date: Wed Jan 5 00:53:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Where Can I Purchase Cephalotus - I Live In Southern Ontario, Hi Rick and all, no secrets to share by my side, just a few notes on Albany pitcher plant cultivation. I found Cephalotus is a really easy plant to grow, if compared with other Australian species, such as tropical sundews or some tuberous sundews. The reason is that Cephalotus is widely tolerant to lighting, temperature and humidity changes. At the same time, I observed quick decay in cultivated plants living in standing water. Examining wild plants in the Walpole shire, I had confirmation of that. Plants living where water never stands, are bigger and healthy. Before martyrise a woodland of cephalotus, my suggestion is to use a quite airy soil mix (eg. 50%peat and 50% perlite) and to irrigate pots from overhead preventing water stagnation in the tray. Some people, here, has got appreciable results with this trivial shrewdness. Cheers, Cristiano Perrucci, Genoa -Italy- > Greetings, > > I just lost a cephalotus follicularis plant that I had for many years. It > never really flourished, but it did grow slowly and stayed about the same > size throughout its life. I don't think my conditions were optimal for it > (soil-wise). I am looking to obtain several new plants that I could > experiment with in terms of different soil mixes. > > Is there anyone out there who can ship within or to Canada (particularly, > Southern Ontario)? I realize that it may be prudent to wait until spring > unless someone is within driving distance of Kitchener, Ontario and I could > arrange to pick them up in person. > > Also, would anyone who has had success be able to share their secrets??? > > While I'm at it, are there any species of Heliamphora that are relatively > easy to grow, or do they need special requirements in terms of cool and > humid. I can provide warm and humid via enclosed aquariums under either > fluorescents or metal halides... > > Thanks in advance, > > Rick Hillier > http://www.swconnection.com/cp > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ____________________________________________________________ Libero ADSL: 3 mesi gratis e navighi a 1.2 Mega. E poi hai l'Adsl senza limiti a meno di 1 euro al giorno. Abbonati subito senza costi di attivazione su http://www.libero.it ################### From: john.wilden at hmce.gsi.gov.uk (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) Date: Wed Jan 5 01:24:23 2005 Subject: [CP] CPN in UK Dear all, Anybody in the UK/ Europe received their December issue of the CPN yet? Regards John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ################### From: cwasson at cisco.com (craig wasson) Date: Wed Jan 5 09:56:11 2005 Subject: [CP] Where Can I Purchase Cephalotus - I Live In Southern Ontario, I agree with Cristiano - Cephalotus is VERY easy to grow if you don't treat it like a bog plant. In fact it's one of only two plants that I have which survived during a 10-year period when I lost interest in CP. My original ceph (purchased from World Insectivorous Plants when they were in the California central coast area) is now 25 years old despite very long periods of neglect. That plant was in a large glass jar growing in live sphagnum. I now have a dozen or so plants - seems the best planting mix is mostly sand with some peat. I grow them in non-draining pots with relatively low humidity and water them every week or two if they are in open pots - the glass jar get watered just a couple times a year. I also have one in the kitchen in a self watering pot which seems quite happy. When they crowd the container I grow them in I just pull off chunks of the plant to create new clones. It's also easy to start clones by pulling off a leaf. I have also pulled off pitchers to create clones but I find the regular leaves work better with nearly 100% success. Light does not seem to matter except low light produces very bright green pitchers and high light produces dark purple - almost black sometimes - pitchers. Humidity also seems to not matter much - the airtight jar growing in live sphagnum is a very happy plant, as is one growing in sand in one of those mini-terrariums with a big open hole at the top. All are clones of the same plant so the differences are all due to growing conditions. I don't understand why Cephalotus is so hard to find and so expensive, since it's so easy to grow. I guess it's because it takes 6 months to a year to get a decent sized plant from a pulled leaf. In 25 years of growing the original plant - and many clones - it has NEVER produced a flower. So I have never had a chance to try growing them from seed. Has anyone else out there had their Cephalotus produce flowers? What's the trick to make them flower? Most of my hard-to-flower plants produce flowers when I forget to water them and almost kill them. My heliamphoria recently rewarded my neglect with a flower. Craig ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Wed Jan 5 10:14:25 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: narcotic Nepenthes Hi all, I don't know if Nepenthes produces any narcotic. Nepenthes was given the name by Linnaeus after 'Nepenthe', a mythical drug which Helen learned about in Egypt. Nepenthe was a love potion which also drove away sorrow. Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ________________________________________________________________ Juno Gift Certificates Give the gift of Internet access this holiday season. http://www.juno.com/give ################### From: westaustralia at libero.it (Cristiano Perrucci) Date: Wed Jan 5 12:03:15 2005 Subject: [CP] Where Can I Purchase Cephalotus - I Live In Southern Ontario, Two of my plants produces flowers almost every year but, the plants are several years old and there are several growing points so I suppose the rhyzomes are thick. The pots are 12 and 15 cm tall. Pollination is easy as well as seeds production despite to seed germination that is almost utopia. Next time I try to put them in TC. Cristiano, IT > Has anyone else out there had their Cephalotus produce flowers? What's the > trick to make them flower? Most of my hard-to-flower plants produce flowers > when I forget to water them and almost kill them. My heliamphoria recently > rewarded my neglect with a flower. > > > Craig ____________________________________________________________ Libero ADSL: 3 mesi gratis e navighi a 1.2 Mega. E poi hai l'Adsl senza limiti a meno di 1 euro al giorno. Abbonati subito senza costi di attivazione su http://www.libero.it ################### From: david.ahrens at btopenworld.com (DAVID AHRENS) Date: Wed Jan 5 12:28:16 2005 Subject: [CP] Anybody received their CPN yet I was going to reply to this posting on my nepenthesdave email address but the listserv posting hasn't come through on that yet. John Wilden asked:- 'Dear all, Anybody in the UK/ Europe received their December issue of the CPN yet?' No Regards David Ahrens London ################### From: ClaraVoiAunt at aol.com (ClaraVoiAunt@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 5 13:35:37 2005 Subject: [CP] Cephalotus flowering In a message dated 1/5/05 12:02:44 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: Craig. You have jest discovered mother nature's way of continuing the species. Plants that feel that they are dying will produce seeds quicker than well cared for plants. i.e. that dandelion in the crack of you sidewalk. Not very big but still blooming , trying to get some seed produced before it croaks. Excuse me ...expires. Lois Most of my hard-to-flower plants produce flowers when I forget to water them and almost kill them. My heliamphoria recently rewarded my neglect with a flower. ################### From: Rklelaphe1 at aol.com (Rklelaphe1@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 5 17:07:53 2005 Subject: [CP] A quick plug for Sunbelle Exotics ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Wed Jan 5 20:25:54 2005 Subject: [CP] Narcotic Effect of CPs i think the paralyzing agent hypothesis is the result of watching insects drown in pitcher fluid. look! it's stopped moving! well, as we say in california: "duh?" (no offense to anyone who's stunned by a drowned insect no longer moving.) but i do believe there is a wetting agent, and it may be enhanced the very thing that attracts insects: the nectar. if you spritz the peristome as though it were being rained on, watch where the liquid drips. some of it is off the pitcher, but some of it drips into the pitcher and with impunity, since the waxy walls repel it right into the fluid bath. someone posted an article about how a wet peristome is much more effective than a dry one. i've witnessed this many times. one minute, ants will be swarming the mouth of a pitcher. a spritz of water and all the ants zip off the mouth and into the pitcher. i would think wet peristomes are the norm in the environments where these plants evolved. my question: is this slippery stuff nectar? and is it related to the wetting agent? and speaking of cephalotus. this plant seems to 'water' its own peristome. i have one that's brimming with water, even though i don't mist it. Gary Kong "David Ahrens" wrote: >Christine asked about the narcotic substances in Sarracenia and Nepenthes, >which drug the insect visiters to these plants. >The substance in Sarracenia is coniine. >I wasn't too sure that Nepenthes secrete a paralysing substance. I have >looked this up in 'The Carnivorous Plants' by Juniper Robins and Joel. On >page 242, they discuss the paralysing and wetting agents that might be >secreted by carnivorous plants. They say that only Sarracenia contains a >paralysing agent in it's trap, it is alone in the CP world for having an >agent of this sort. >Page 62 also says that it is suggested that Nepenthes pitcher fluid contains >a wetting agent. It goes on to say that there is little evidence for this. I >am a little bit confused because page 62 says that the liquid in the base of >the pitcher has a 'soapiness' about it and says that this may be the result >of polysaccharides discharged into the pitcher fluid. So there does seem to >be evidence of a wetting agent in the traps, the book seems to contradict >itself. >Hope this helps. >Regards >David Ahrens. >London. > > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: leosong at fullerton.edu (Leo Song) Date: Wed Jan 5 23:25:41 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cephalotus Hi Group: I grow Cephalotus outside here in S. California. Since the climate is somewhat similar to native area, the plant does well and has flowered almost every year, generally during the late spring-early summer. A cold dormant period is probably the key. The plant is self-fertile (anthers shedding pollen first, stigmas receptive later- like Dionaea). I have grown volunteer seedlings, so I know the seeds are good. Leo -- Leo C. Song, Jr. Curator/Manager Biology Greenhouse Complex, Retired POB 6850 Fullerton CA 92834-6850 Vox & Fax: 714/278-2766 email: leosong@fullerton.edu Tao of Leo Song: "Knowledge is not knowledge unless it is shared." ################### From: utricularia4242 at hotmail.com (Travis Wyman) Date: Thu Jan 6 09:05:13 2005 Subject: [CP] Recovering plants Hey everyone, Shortly before the holidays I had a rather unfortunate occurance. On the night that the temp dropped to 17 degrees F there was a power failure that shut off my space heater. When the power came back on the heater did not reset and so all the plants in my sunroom had the pleasure of being frozen to some extent or other. 2 days after this happened I had to go out to Colorado and I have only recently returned. This morning I was able to take a close look at my collection and, much as i expected, I have lost a good number of plants. I am looking for anyone who might have spares of the following plants: -P. laueana CP2 x CP3 -P. laueana SP3 -P. moranensis 'D' -P. oblongiloba -P. macrophylla -P. emarginata -P. rectifolia -P. agnata 'Harold' -P. 'Mola' -P. gigantea -P. gigantea "purple flower" -P. gigantea "alba" x moctezumae (this was Stan Lampard's cross, also known as 'Apasionada') -P. 'Sethos' x cyclosecta -P. 'Tina' -P. 'Gina' -P. 'Weser' (This was not the bogus plant of mass TC distribution. It was supposedly the real deal though I had not yet gotten it to flower to confirm this.) -D. slackii -D. 'Big Easy' I do not currently have much to trade but I wil do my best to work something out if I can. If you can help please drop me a line off list Thank Travis Travis H. Wyman Microbiology & Molecular Genetics Emory University twyman@emory.edu ################### From: nickplummer at nc.rr.com (nickplummer@nc.rr.com) Date: Thu Jan 6 13:03:12 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Narcotic effects of CP (now insect aquaplaning) Gary Kong wrote: > someone posted an article about how a wet peristome is much more > effective than a dry one. i've witnessed this many times. The following paper seems relevant: Bohn HF, Federle W. (2004) Insect aquaplaning: Nepenthes pitcher plants capture prey with the peristome, a fully wettable water-lubricated anisotropic surface. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 101(39):14138-43 Abstract: Pitcher plants of the genus Nepenthes have highly specialized leaves adapted to attract, capture, retain, and digest arthropod prey. Several mechanisms have been proposed for the capture of insects, ranging from slippery epicuticular wax crystals to downward-pointing lunate cells and alkaloid secretions that anesthetize insects. Here we report that perhaps the most important capture mechanism has thus far remained overlooked. It is based on special surface properties of the pitcher rim (peristome) and insect "aquaplaning." The peristome is characterized by a regular microstructure with radial ridges of smooth overlapping epidermal cells, which form a series of steps toward the pitcher inside. This surface is completely wettable by nectar secreted at the inner margin of the peristome and by rain water, so that homogenous liquid films cover the surface under humid weather conditions. Only when wet, the peristome surface is slippery for insects, so that most ant visitors become trapped. By measuring friction forces of weaver ants (Oecophylla smaragdina) on the peristome surface of Nepenthes bicalcarata, we demonstrate that the two factors preventing insect attachment to the peristome, i.e., water lubrication and anisotropic surface topography, are effective against different attachment structures of the insect tarsus. Peristome water films disrupt attachment only for the soft adhesive pads but not for the claws, whereas surface topography leads to anisotropic friction only for the claws but not for the adhesive pads. Experiments on Nepenthes alata show that the trapping mechanism of the peristome is also essential in Nepenthes species with waxy inner pitcher walls. ################### From: Killerplants at aol.com (Killerplants@aol.com) Date: Thu Jan 6 14:24:21 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: narcotics Didn't Peter D'Amato have a small article(or maybe it was a post) where he watched a ton of ants sample some Nepenthes nectar and fall off the plant onto his bench either stupified or dead? Cheers, ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Thu Jan 6 19:57:47 2005 Subject: [CP] Recovering plants Dear Travis, Don't throw out your _Drosera_ pots just yet! While the leaves have died, the roots could be just fine. _D. regia_ can come back from roots eight inches below the soil surface :) _D. slackii_ is no slacker when it comes to growing back from roots either. Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of Travis Wyman Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 12:05 PM When the power came back on the heater did not reset and so all the plants in my sunroom had the pleasure of being frozen to some extent or other. 2 days after this happened I had to go out to Colorado and I have only recently returned. This morning I was able to take a close look at my collection and, much as i expected, I have lost a good number of plants. -D. slackii -D. 'Big Easy' Travis H. Wyman Microbiology & Molecular Genetics Emory University ################### From: stephenwd at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Davis) Date: Thu Jan 6 22:43:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Narcotic effects of CP (now insect aquaplaning) I have a good sized N. truncate on my window sill. Every so often we get an infestation of ants which love to crawl all over it. I've found that if I use my mister on the pitcher the ants will fall in so fast that I don't even see them slide in. They appear to just disappear. One second they are happily walking along the peristome, the next, they are gone. What is incredible to me is that this is just a light misting and the effect is instantaneous. Not very scientific, but an easy thing to replicate. Stephen Davis stephenwd@sbcglobal.net www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com -----Original Message----- Of nickplummer@nc.rr.com Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 1:03 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Gary Kong wrote: > someone posted an article about how a wet peristome is much more > effective than a dry one. i've witnessed this many times. The following paper seems relevant: Bohn HF, Federle W. (2004) Insect aquaplaning: Nepenthes pitcher plants capture prey with the peristome, a fully wettable water-lubricated anisotropic surface. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 101(39):14138-43 Abstract: Pitcher plants of the genus Nepenthes have highly specialized leaves adapted to attract, capture, retain, and digest arthropod prey. Several mechanisms have been proposed for the capture of insects, ranging from slippery epicuticular wax crystals to downward-pointing lunate cells and alkaloid secretions that anesthetize insects. Here we report that perhaps the most important capture mechanism has thus far remained overlooked. It is based on special surface properties of the pitcher rim (peristome) and insect "aquaplaning." The peristome is characterized by a regular microstructure with radial ridges of smooth overlapping epidermal cells, which form a series of steps toward the pitcher inside. This surface is completely wettable by nectar secreted at the inner margin of the peristome and by rain water, so that homogenous liquid films cover the surface under humid weather conditions. Only when wet, the peristome surface is slippery for insects, so that most ant visitors become trapped. By measuring friction forces of weaver ants (Oecophylla smaragdina) on the peristome surface of Nepenthes bicalcarata, we demonstrate that the two factors preventing insect attachment to the peristome, i.e., water lubrication and anisotropic surface topography, are effective against different attachment structures of the insect tarsus. Peristome water films disrupt attachment only for the soft adhesive pads but not for the claws, whereas surface topography leads to anisotropic friction only for the claws but not for the adhesive pads. Experiments on Nepenthes alata show that the trapping mechanism of the peristome is also essential in Nepenthes species with waxy inner pitcher walls. _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Fri Jan 7 08:25:29 2005 Subject: [CP] Remember the hand puppets? Hey Folks, A funny thing happened over the holidays. One of my family members decided that I clearly needed to own a copy of a "Ripley's Believe it or Not" book. For those of you unfamiliar with this American institution, Ripley's is a museum of the odd; it got its start by publishing an illustrated article in the newspapers, etc., etc., with facts like, "Did you know that botanist Robert Gibson can stick his tongue into his ear?" and so on. (I'm not sure about that statement regarding Robert, by the way.) Anyway, I was passing the time reading about people who had tattooed themselves to look like lizards, and strange meteorological phenomena like maggots raining from the sky, when I discovered a surprising entry: A young woman in North Carolina apparently became interested in taxidermy, and would practice on roadkill brought to her by her father; now she has her own business in taxidermy. YES! Amy Ritchie! The girl who once made Venus Flytrap hand puppets and sold them on her web site! I am proud to still have my set of flytrap hand and finger puppets made by Ms Ritchie! Fabulous! Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Fri Jan 7 09:23:10 2005 Subject: [CP] Remember the hand puppets? Fantastic! Barry, thanks for this wonderful news. I remember that in 1999 as a 12-year-old she had spunk. She must be about 17 now. I recall that her budding enterprise also started the hand-puppet wars, where some of our scrooge listserve participants wanted to ban her for the audacious crime of trying to peddle her puppets to us. For a sample, see http://www.flytrap.demon.co.uk/digests/2005.txt -Bob- Barry Rice wrote: > Hey Folks, > > A funny thing happened over the holidays. One of my family members decided > that I clearly needed to own a copy of a "Ripley's Believe it or Not" book. > For those of you unfamiliar with this American institution, Ripley's is a > museum of the odd; it got its start by publishing an illustrated article in > the newspapers, etc., etc., with facts like, "Did you know that botanist > Robert Gibson can stick his tongue into his ear?" and so on. (I'm not sure > about that statement regarding Robert, by the way.) > > Anyway, I was passing the time reading about people who had tattooed > themselves to look like lizards, and strange meteorological phenomena like > maggots raining from the sky, when I discovered a surprising entry: A young > woman in North Carolina apparently became interested in taxidermy, and would > practice on roadkill brought to her by her father; now she has her own > business in taxidermy. YES! Amy Ritchie! The girl who once made Venus > Flytrap hand puppets and sold them on her web site! I am proud to still have > my set of flytrap hand and finger puppets made by Ms Ritchie! > > Fabulous! > > Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. > Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor > The International Carnivorous Plant Society > http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Fri Jan 7 12:55:28 2005 Subject: [CP] handpuppets/ Clarke Well two totally unrelated issues, Can these hand-puppets still be bought? Does anyone know is Charles Clarke related to Arthur C. Clarke. An article in our local newspaper interviewed Arthur who lives/d in the former Celyon (What is it called now?). Any way I heard Charles Clarke lives/d in the same are and both came from near the same area of England (if I am hearing correct facts). Tre ################### From: greyeagleorchis at earthlink.net (Andy Lanier) Date: Fri Jan 7 12:55:29 2005 Subject: [CP] Remember the hand puppets? I wasn't a member of the list when the Hand Puppets discussion was going on but I typed in Amy Ritchie Taxidermy and did a Google Search and found a large web site for her. She sounds like quite a girl. Andy Lanier Fantastic! Barry, thanks for this wonderful news. I remember that in 1999 as a 12-year-old she had spunk. She must be about 17 now. I recall that her budding enterprise also started the hand-puppet wars, where some of our scrooge listserve participants wanted to ban her for the audacious crime of trying to peddle her puppets to us. For a sample, see http://www.flytrap.demon.co.uk/digests/2005.txt -Bob- Barry Rice wrote: > Hey Folks, > > A funny thing happened over the holidays. One of my family members > decided that I clearly needed to own a copy of a "Ripley's Believe > it or Not" book. For those of you unfamiliar with this American > institution, Ripley's is a museum of the odd; it got its start by > publishing an illustrated article in the newspapers, etc., etc., > with facts like, "Did you know that botanist Robert Gibson can stick > his tongue into his ear?" and so on. (I'm not sure about that > statement regarding Robert, by the way.) > > Anyway, I was passing the time reading about people who had tattooed > themselves to look like lizards, and strange meteorological > phenomena like maggots raining from the sky, when I discovered a > surprising entry: A young woman in North Carolina apparently became > interested in taxidermy, and would practice on roadkill brought to > her by her father; now she has her own business in taxidermy. YES! > Amy Ritchie! The girl who once made Venus Flytrap hand puppets and > sold them on her web site! I am proud to still have my set of > flytrap hand and finger puppets made by Ms Ritchie! > > Fabulous! > > Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor The > International Carnivorous Plant Society > http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Fri Jan 7 14:08:55 2005 Subject: [CP] handpuppets/ Clarke In a message dated 1/7/2005 12:56:05 PM Pacific Standard Time, treaqum1@yahoo.com writes: Well two totally unrelated issues, Can these hand-puppets still be bought? Does anyone know is Charles Clarke related to Arthur C. Clarke. An article in our local newspaper interviewed Arthur who lives/d in the former Celyon (What is it called now?). Any way I heard Charles Clarke lives/d in the same are and both came from near the same area of England (if I am hearing correct facts). Tre Or what is commonly referred to now, and quite frequently in the news these days, Sri Lanka. Arthur still lives there, and despite being arguably Sri Lanka's most famous resident, didn't get interviewed by any major media outlet after the tsunami that I saw. I did find an interview in the Malaysian Times. No idea if he's related to Charles or not. TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Fri Jan 7 14:36:55 2005 Subject: [CP] Remember the hand puppets? > >I wasn't a member of the list when the Hand Puppets discussion was going on >but I typed in Amy Ritchie Taxidermy and did a Google Search and found a >large web site for her. She sounds like quite a girl. >Andy Lanier > Interesting website, definitely not for those who are opposed to hunting/skinning animals and photos/descriptions of it. I remember Amy and the puppet wars well. After viewing her taxidermy site, I'm sure the same people would not make any comments for fear of becoming an 'addition' to her collection ;-)! Hey, maybe she can deal with all the pesky squirrels from the annual squirrel wars! Chris ################### From: david.ahrens at btopenworld.com (DAVID AHRENS) Date: Fri Jan 7 14:58:59 2005 Subject: [CP] Narcotic effects of CP (now insect aquaplaning) ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Fri Jan 7 15:32:48 2005 Subject: [CP] Now just need these 4 native bladderworts I ordered some bladderworts that I needed from Meadowview,and still waiting for seeds of others I ordered for my collection. Now all I need are these 4 US native species(either states),then I am done. The first 2 are the main ones I really need,the last 2 are just something I would like to have. Utricularia radiata Utricularia resupinata Utricularia minor Utricularia olivacea Harry ################### From: CALIFCARN at aol.com (CALIFCARN@aol.com) Date: Fri Jan 7 15:35:08 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Drugged Nectar ################### From: CMcdon0923 at aol.com (CMcdon0923@aol.com) Date: Fri Jan 7 15:50:56 2005 Subject: [CP] Remember the hand puppets? Amy has a website displaying some of her work...... www.amystaxidermy.com ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Sat Jan 8 15:42:33 2005 Subject: [CP] A message to Floridians Appreciate what you have. I'm not sure you quite realize how amazing your state is. I am a los angelean trying to relocate. The longer i visit your wonderful state the longer i lust after it and want to relocate here. I'm currently in fort lauderdale but going up to orlando and tampa next week applying for tech jobs the whole way. It is presently in the low 50s and pouring in los angeles but thats beside the point. My last 2 bosses at my last 2 jobs in california commuted 2 1/2 hours ONE WAY. For those in california that means riverside to brentwood and lake castaic to gardena. I was on the 95 going back to the hostel i'm staying at and the sun was setting and it wasnt gridlock. if this were the 405 north at sunset on a saturday the traffic coming home would be solid bumper to bumper. for those in california: i know because i would always come back on a saturday afternoon from vasquez rocks off the 14 or magic mountain off the 5 or something and as soon as you get near wilshire blvd and the 10 freeway it jams up solid. watch this website at 5pm PST on a weekday http://www.sigalert.com out by big cypress swamp today a woman was telling me who worked at the conservatory how homes in naples are so ridiculously expensive at the rate of $280k ----- WHAT?!??!?! do they even realize that there are homes selling for dramatically more than that in ghettos in california with bullets whizzing by? i just cant believe it Only the ultra rich can afford california or if you were there before the market exploded. Did you know many MANY young people such as my girlfriend and I and many of our friends are moving out of california because its completely unaffordable? I've been bragging to my parents and friends all week how i saw 1.71 gas here at a Marathon. Its still in the 1.90s out there. And finally, YOU CAN ACTUALLY GROW CARNIVOROUS PLANTS OUTSIDE NOT IN SOME CRAPPY GLASS TANK! PLEASE. PLEASE appreciate what you have. You don't know how bad it can be. ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Sat Jan 8 17:14:14 2005 Subject: [CP] A message to Floridians You know, you really should have done this as a top ten list. Of course, you missed one big negative factor for Florida. They have to put up with Jeb Bush as Governor! HAHAHAHA! ...what? Our Governor is Arnold Schwarzenegger? Guess it's a toss up on that one, then. TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sun Jan 9 10:23:09 2005 Subject: [CP] wanted: Ping/Utric seed If you have any excess random Ping or Utric seed I would like it for SASE or trade. I am working on how to raise my germination/survival rate above 20%. Thanks, Tre ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Sun Jan 9 11:30:15 2005 Subject: [CP] My Growlist It been much easier to just post link to CP site where my list is listed. I just started out past spring,and my cp collection is still growing. But I only grow mainly what be native in my state,only very little are not native here. But I like them any way. I ordered some cp seeds,so as soon as I can get them to germinate in spring,I will update my list. I just don't want to add them if I can't get them to germinate. My Growlist http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6983 Wolf ################### From: slawarre at meijergardens.org (Steve LaWarre) Date: Sun Jan 9 13:39:38 2005 Subject: [CP] New Event listed on the ICPS event board A new event has been added to the ICPS News & Events page, titled: Acid-wetland ecology day June 11, 2005 at Hummer's place in Caroline Co. VA. USA You can check it out at: http://www.carnivorousplants.org/news/newsmain.php Thanks, Steve LaWarre ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sun Jan 9 14:00:22 2005 Subject: [CP] Florida Well true we do have perfect weather but people are such idiots around here. They practically think Florida is its own country, which needless to say leads to numerous court battles on civil rights. Oh, Yes the Civil War is still going on here, probibly because Florida never surrendered. The only bad thing is you cannot grow Lowland Neps, Mexican Pings, Tropical Drosera, Temperate Drosera, Temperate Pings, or Darlingtonia outside. Hence the reason I have very few of these plants. Although we have had slightly colder then normal winter weather you know mid 50s to mid 80s. I pity everyone where it is frozen who cannot run outside and see their cps everyday. Tre ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Sun Jan 9 14:34:36 2005 Subject: [CP] Florida I only grow US natives,mainly of the eastcoast. So growing them outside here in Maryland is no problem. The pitcher plants,flytraps,and sundews are in pots with mix of long-fiber S. moss and perlite. When temps get below freezing,I bring them in,depending on species? Like S. flava and purpurea ssp. venosa. My Dwarf sundews are in the house by a window. My bladderworts are also in the house by the window. The aquatic ones are in Glad-Lock tuffawear with little long-fiber S.moss and distilled water. I only have the one mud type that I bought from you,and at this time its just in a old yogar cup w/lid in wet long-fiber moss. Wolf ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Sun Jan 9 14:39:16 2005 Subject: [CP] CP Group At Care2 Carnivorous Plants http://www.care2.com/c2c/group/carnivorous_plants Wolf ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sun Jan 9 15:36:21 2005 Subject: [CP] Wanted Mexican Pings I will trade for the following pings: P. colimensis P. crassifolia P. cyclosecta P. debbertiana P. ehlersiae P. emarginata P. esseriana P. esseriana {Giant} P. gypsicola P. hemiepiphytica P. immaculata P. jaumavensis P. kondoi P. laueana P. macrophylla P. moctezumae P. orchidioides P. potosiensis P. rotundiflora P. zecheri P. spec. ANPA C (Tonala, Puebla, Mexico; very unique flower) P. spec. Köhres P. spec. "I" Hautil P. spec. Tamaulipas (= P. pilosa) My trade items avalible at [URL=http://www.geocities.com/Treaqum1/Trade.html]www.geocites.com/Treaqum1/Trade.html[/URL]I also have D. filformis ssp. tracyi 'Buck Pond' ################### From: sclancy at uci.edu (sclancy) Date: Sun Jan 9 15:36:48 2005 Subject: [CP] handpuppets I also bought some of the handpuppets from Amy and even sent her some plants. I lost track of her, and thankfully missed the "handpuppet wars." She has grown into a beautiful young woman and has moved into other things. I think that her experience on this group soured her on CP for life. She has become well-known and has appeared on both Radio and TV for her taxidemy work. Good for you Amy! --steve -- Steve Clancy, MLS AHIP Acting Medical Education Coordinator, Library Proxy Coordinator Science Library, Univ. of Calif., Irvine CA. U.S.A. 949-824-7309 * sclancy AT uci.edu * sun3.lib.uci.edu/~sclancy --------------------------------------------------------------- "I see dead spammers." >Message: 1 >Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 12:55:12 -0800 (PST) >From: Tre Bond >Subject: [CP] handpuppets/ Clarke >To: Cp@omnisterra.com >Message-ID: <20050107205512.77441.qmail@web53301.mail.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >Well two totally unrelated issues, >Can these hand-puppets still be bought? >Does anyone know is Charles Clarke related to Arthur C. Clarke. An article in our local newspaper interviewed Arthur who lives/d in the former Celyon (What is it called now?). Any way I heard Charles Clarke lives/d in the same are and both came from near the same area of England (if I am hearing correct facts). >Tre > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com > >------------------------------ > >Message: 2 >Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 15:54:34 -0500 >From: "Andy Lanier" >Subject: Re: [CP] Remember the hand puppets? >To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" >Message-ID: <005f01c4f4fb$18641f80$a018a5d1@andy> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >I wasn't a member of the list when the Hand Puppets discussion was going on but I typed in Amy Ritchie Taxidermy and did a Google Search and found a large web site for her. She sounds like quite a girl. >Andy Lanier > > > Fantastic! Barry, thanks for this wonderful news. > > I remember that in 1999 as a 12-year-old she had spunk. She must be > about 17 now. I recall that her budding enterprise also started the > hand-puppet wars, where some of our scrooge listserve participants > wanted to ban her for the audacious crime of trying to peddle her > puppets to us. For a sample, see > http://www.flytrap.demon.co.uk/digests/2005.txt > > -Bob- > > > > ################### From: pbunch at cox.net (Phil Bunch) Date: Mon Jan 10 07:59:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Intro and Colombian CP's Hi all: I'm a complete novice with regard to CP's but have spent my career in the biological arm of environmental regulation. I currently work for a utility company and manage our T&E species program. I have an interest in the tropical highlands of Colombia and would like to learn about CP's that occur in those areas, particularly in the Department of Antioquia. Looking forward to participating in this list. Phil Bunch -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 1/6/2005 ################### From: pbunch at cox.net (Phil Bunch) Date: Mon Jan 10 09:59:15 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Colombia & CP / Ivo Koudela's new address Ivo: Do you know if any of the plants you mentioned in your post occur in Antioquia? Any above 2000 m? Phil Bunch -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.10 - Release Date: 1/10/2005 ################### From: willows at rose.net (James A Rollins) Date: Mon Jan 10 12:54:58 2005 Subject: [CP] To Want to be in FL not CA ################### From: utricularia4242 at hotmail.com (Travis Wyman) Date: Mon Jan 10 12:58:14 2005 Subject: [CP] To Want to be in FL not CA Hey James, I had one going outside this past spring/summer and it was doing alright till the birds decided that digging up the pot would be a fun thing to do. Travis >From: "James A Rollins" > >(Has any one tried Cephalotus outside in the SE US?) ################### From: ullsperg at hotmail.com (Chris Ullsperger) Date: Mon Jan 10 15:09:28 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Mexian pings wanted >From that want list, I noticed the following: P. spec. ANPA C (Tonala, Puebla, Mexico; very unique flower) I purchased this plant from Best Carnivorous Plants last summer and was very pleased to see flowers already this winter. They are truly beautiful -- a bright lavender/pink with dark purple markings -- unlike any of the flowers on my other pings and very worthwhile (I have many other fine Best CP pings to compare -- a fine and recommended purveyor, especially when the Euro/dollar ratio is not so steep ...). cu ################### From: dinesh at ndbib.lanka.net (Dinesh Fernando) Date: Tue Jan 11 01:43:38 2005 Subject: [CP] handpuppets / Clarke Dr. Clarke still lives in Sri Lanka (formerly Ceylon). > >Message: 1 > >Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 12:55:12 -0800 (PST) > >From: Tre Bond > >Subject: [CP] handpuppets/ Clarke > >To: Cp@omnisterra.com > >Message-ID: <20050107205512.77441.qmail@web53301.mail.yahoo.com> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > >Does anyone know is Charles Clarke related to Arthur C. Clarke. An article in our local newspaper interviewed Arthur who lives/d in the former Celyon (What is it called now?). Any way I heard Charles Clarke lives/d in the same are and both came from near the same area of England (if I am hearing correct facts). > >Tre ################### From: sardonus at yahoo.com (Hamish McKellar) Date: Tue Jan 11 02:33:40 2005 Subject: [CP] handpuppets / Clarke Dinesh - I think you're referring to Arthur C. Clarke, who as far as I know doesn't have a doctorate, honorary or otherwise (although he does have a knighthood, so you can refer to him as Sir Arthur C. Clarke). He does indeed live in Sri Lanka. ... Dr Charles Clarke, noted biologist and Nepenthes expert, lives in Australia... Hamish --- Dinesh Fernando wrote: > Dr. Clarke still lives in Sri Lanka (formerly > Ceylon). > > > > >Message: 1 > > >Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 12:55:12 -0800 (PST) > > >From: Tre Bond > > >Subject: [CP] handpuppets/ Clarke > > >To: Cp@omnisterra.com > > >Message-ID: > <20050107205512.77441.qmail@web53301.mail.yahoo.com> > > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > > > >Does anyone know is Charles Clarke related to > Arthur C. Clarke. An > article in our local newspaper interviewed Arthur > who lives/d in the former > Celyon (What is it called now?). Any way I heard > Charles Clarke lives/d in > the same are and both came from near the same area > of England (if I am > hearing correct facts). > > >Tre > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ___________________________________________________________ ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Tue Jan 11 14:17:39 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Florida Well I have burned my bog, before I moved it. Make sure you line the edge with tinfoil, then the rubber or plastic will not melt. The good thing is that ping and Drosera seed that falls in your bog (native speices) will geminate the next winter. The really bad thing about Florida is the limited Trade time. You can first-class or priority mail (In NE florida) from Oct. 1st to Mid April. Everyone else (where it snows) can usually only agree between Mid March to Nov. 1st. Obviously I have traded with a bunch of people who do not, but I think the majority do. ################### From: Markus.Welge at teleos.de (Welge, Markus) Date: Wed Jan 12 00:54:03 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Mexian pings wanted I also grow P. spec. ANPA C (Tonala, Puebla, Mexico). It's indeed a very nice species. There are also two other forms (ANPA B and ANPA D) which are quite different and as far as I know there is also a white flowered form... Markus, Germany ______________________________________________ Karnivoren in Kultur... http://home.sdirekt-net.de/mwelge5/ To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From that want list, I noticed the following: P. spec. ANPA C (Tonala, Puebla, Mexico; very unique flower) I purchased this plant from Best Carnivorous Plants last summer and was very pleased to see flowers already this winter. They are truly beautiful -- a bright lavender/pink with dark purple markings -- unlike any of the flowers on my other pings and very worthwhile (I have many other fine Best CP pings to compare -- a fine and recommended purveyor, especially when the Euro/dollar ratio is not so steep ...). cu ################### From: CDunn316 at aol.com (CDunn316@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 12 15:00:45 2005 Subject: [CP] Bog Burning ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Wed Jan 12 15:14:36 2005 Subject: [CP] Bog Burning It probably depends on what you have growing in it. If you have species that are fire-adapted, and if you need to control overtopping by "weeds", it may be desirable. If, however, your plants have evolved in a natural habitat without fire, then burning may simply kill those and favor the fire-adapted species. -Bob- CDunn316@aol.com wrote: > Hi All- I seem to have missed this thread, so forgive me if I'm re-hashing > old business. > Is it generally agreed that burnig will benefit a small, bog garden? If so > (apparently so) what, and when, is the best way to go about it? > Regards, > Charlie ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Wed Jan 12 15:26:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Barry's leaf pullings I have to dissagree with Barry's idea not being at least semi-unique. I have reserched it and have not found in any of my cp books that part fo the rhizome is not needed. They all seem to say that a small piece of rhizome must be attached or the cutting will fail. Maybe the authors meant the whitish leaf base but the two or three sentences are too consice to tell. ################### From: JDPDX at aol.com (JDPDX@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 12 15:40:56 2005 Subject: [CP] D. Darnowski Does anyone know if Doug Darnowski is still on the listserve? I believe he lives in Florence, OR. Jeff Dallas Portland, OR ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Wed Jan 12 16:44:34 2005 Subject: [CP] D. Darnowski I believe he is (was) at School of Natural Sciences, Indiana University Southeast. http://www.ius.edu/NaturalSciences/Faculty.cfm JDPDX@aol.com wrote: > Does anyone know if Doug Darnowski is still on the listserve? I believe he > lives in Florence, OR. > > Jeff Dallas > Portland, OR ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Wed Jan 12 21:02:16 2005 Subject: [CP] Wanted: US/Canada native Utricularia purpurea Wanted: Bladderworts(location plants native to any states) Purple Bladderwort Utricularia purpurea Wolf ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Thu Jan 13 08:28:24 2005 Subject: [CP] Hi folks, I'm sorry for the 2nd post. This will be my last. I'm wrapping up my latest seed offer so if you missed it the first time, please email me right away. There's definitely enough D.meristocaulis seed to meet demand so don't be shy if you're interested. Others are in smaller quantities, but don't let this discourage you. Multiple packet requests are ok as long as I have enough. Seed from the same batch has just started germinating for me. :) I want to get rid of my extras ASAP and be done with this seed offer so I can get my life back again! See below for details. Hi friends, I have some REALLY exciting news. D.meristocaulis! hirticalyx, roraimae, Genlisea = New South American Seed Available! After many years, Drosera meristocaulis, probably the most interesting and desirable Drosera ever, has been rediscovered and I've got seed available along with other new stuff - please see below. THIS OFFER IS OPEN TO CP GROWERS IN ANY COUNTRY. I'm extremely happy to announce that I have a small quantity of seed of some more plants never before seen in cultivation. I'm in the US but this offer is open to CPers is ANY country, as long as seed imports don't require any paperwork. Seed includes the following species, some from multiple locations - it's amazing how plants of the same species found on different mountains can be so different! For example, check out the pics of D.roraimae. All of this stuff is obviously extremely rare and the expedition to collect them cost an unbelievably large amount of money. The prices will be relatively high due to these costs, but I certainly feel they're fair. ----DROSERA MERISTOCAULIS---- This is probably the most interesting and beautiful Drosera known to science) http://sundewgrower.com/neblina/D.meristocaulis%20closeup%20Neblina%2011.JPG http://sundewgrower.com/neblina/D.meristocaulis%20flower%20Neblina%2010.JPG ----DROSERA HIRTICALYX---- http://sundewgrower.com/neblina/D.hirticalyx%20Marahuaka%2003.jpg http://sundewgrower.com/neblina/D.hirticalyx%20Marahuaka%2016.jpg (It's likely only the Neblina form will be available) ----DROSERA RORAIMAE---- http://sundewgrower.com/neblina/D.roraimae%20Avispa.JPG http://sundewgrower.com/neblina/D.roraimae%20Jaua%202.JPG http://sundewgrower.com/neblina/D.roraimae%20Marahuaka.JPG http://sundewgrower.com/neblina/D.roraimae%20Neblina%201.JPG ----GENLISEA---- =Genlisea repens These photos were taken by CP explorer and my personal hero, Fernando Rivadavia and are being used with his permission. Please don't link to them without our permission or copy them without his permission. Some of this seed is now available for a very limited time so please contact me immediately if you're interested. I'll accept set cash donations (email for details) in exchange. A large percentage of donations will go right back to an excellent cause - helping to fund the acquisition of more new material like this for us all to grow. Heck, donations may have to help pay outstanding bills from this expedition! Be sure to check your spam folders in case my next announcement gets filtered out of your inbox! Spread the word - these gorgeous and rare plants deserve to be in every collection! Happy growing, Matt ################### From: dglidden at illusionary.com (Derek Glidden) Date: Thu Jan 13 08:42:46 2005 Subject: [CP] bog garden fun in Florida I decided I wanted to redo the bog garden this winter as everything went dormant; move some plants out into other containers, refresh the soil and check the liner, etc. Well, lucky for me, as the bog dried out and the plants went dormant, the fire ants moved in. I spent a REALLY lovely six hours or so digging all the plants out by hand* while trying to simultaneously slap the ants off of my hands and ankles. I'm now itching like mad and my hands and feet look like a bad case of chicken pox. The bog is only about 8x3' and somehow managed to hold two separate colonies on either end. The biggest colony up front managed to take over almost 1/4 of the bog, while the smaller colony in the back had only taken over about 1^3' worth of space, but lemme tell ya, both sets got really torqued when the shovel went in. On the plus side, I got to see first hand what it was like to slaughter about a zillion fire ants as opposed to one at a time with a magnifying glass or in slightly larger quantities with M-80s. So yeah, Florida's just dandy.... * It's a lot more difficult than it sounds when everything's gone dormant, the leaves have mostly fallen off and the rhizomes/tubers/etc are mostly hidden under the sphagnum that has happily taken over the surface of the bog. It's a bit like finding needles in a haystack, said haystack being filled with fire ants... ################### From: CTSsangha at aol.com (CTSsangha@aol.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 09:42:00 2005 Subject: [CP] New South American Seed Available! D.meristocaulis! how much is the seed Matt?? ################### From: AppleCakeTeaRoom at aol.com (AppleCakeTeaRoom@aol.com) Date: Thu Jan 13 21:45:46 2005 Subject: [CP] It figures at 3am.... It figures that at 3 am the really cool stuff is actually on tv, and at that the local station to boot! Being a night owl, I actually went to bed last night at 3am. I got a tv for my room for Christmas so I was flipping channels, hoping to find a good program to snooze away to. What should I stumble on the local station for ComCast at 3am? A local woman from Tarrant County, Texas discussing how to set up a carnivorous plant bog! Add to that she actually knew what she was talking about! She discussed VFTs, and Sarracenias (lol, didn't call them pitcher plants, she actually knew what they were), and proceeded to show how to set up a mobile CP display in a Radio Flyer red wagon. Her CP displays are often permanently set in Wagons because she goes to local schools to talk about the different CPs. Smart idea! She apparently has been growing CPs in ground bogs in Texas for at least 5 years. Thought I'd share my midnight delight...err actually 3am delight! ;-) ################### From: dhcl604 at yahoo.com (David Heule) Date: Fri Jan 14 03:13:40 2005 Subject: [CP] In Search of Sarracenia Hello, Does anyone know where I can purchase Sarracenia purpurea ssp. venosa var. burkii forma luteola? I had bought it from the Atlanta Botanical Gardens in 1999 but lost it during a move. There is a photo of it in Donald E. Schnell's Carnivorous Plants of the United States and Canada on page 139. Thanks. David H. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Fri Jan 14 09:21:12 2005 Subject: [CP] Fluorescent bulbs? Hi everyone, I'm about to change all my 40 watt fluorescent bulbs. I've been using 2 cool white, 1 warm and 1 plant and aquarium bulb per shelf for years but may change this time so I wanted some recommendations from people with great results growing Drosera under lights. Anyone? Also, does anyone switch bulbs to encourage flowering? Thanks, Matt -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ################### From: christoph_belanger2001 at yahoo.com (Christoph Belanger) Date: Fri Jan 14 12:57:35 2005 Subject: [CP] Flourescent Lights - need heliamphora key I use mostly daylight (I think 5000K) 3 flourescent bulbs in conjunction with one grow light. My logic for this is that the Venezuelan and other Drosera grow in higher altitudes with higher lighting intensities. I don't know if this logic makes any sense, but I just switched all my bulbs in August and I have flower stalks on all of my mature Heliamphoras (3 very different-looking clones of heterodoxa and one nutans). At ther very least I will be able to identify my Heliamphora... Can anyone email to me (privately please so as not to annoy everyone) Fernando's Heliamphora key me? It seems my Heliamphora heard my wishes and decided to flower... Christoph __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ################### From: Writerguy67 at aol.com (Writerguy67@aol.com) Date: Fri Jan 14 13:18:17 2005 Subject: [CP] Flourescent Lights - need heliamphora key Christoph, Do you vary photoperiod on your Heliamphora? I use standard cool white 40 watt, 48" T12 cool white tubes on my Heliamphora. Many of my mature species and hybrid Heliamphora clones are likewise sending up scapes (or would be if I left them alone). Not a change in lighting, only in photoperiod (16 hours high down to 12 hours now) and ambient temperature. Jay Lechtman Northern Virginia, USA ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Fri Jan 14 16:45:18 2005 Subject: [CP] It figures at 3am.... >She discussed VFTs, and Sarracenias (lol, didn't call them pitcher plants, >she actually knew what they were), and proceeded to show how to set up a >mobile > CP display in a Radio Flyer red wagon. Her CP displays are often >permanently set in Wagons because she goes to local schools to talk about >the >different CPs. Smart idea! Cool idea. Very convenient for show and tell type displays. I wonder if the wagons start to rust out over time though? Or have they gone the way of plastic (a national tragedy if they have!). Chris ################### From: cplistserv at carnivorousplant.com (Joseph Clemens) Date: Fri Jan 14 17:16:38 2005 Subject: [CP] Fluorescent lights? Hello Matt and List, For about 10 years now I have been exclusively using the least expensive "cool white" 48" T12 fluorescent lamps I am able to locate. Providing 4 - 6 lamps per 2 foot x 4 foot shelf and with a 15 hour/day photoperiod by use of timers has provided me with excellent coloration and plant growth in all plants I have used and recommend this protocol on; Drosera, Pinguicula, Cephalotus, Utricularia, Sarracenia, and Heliamphora. I recently heard of an idea to overdrive fluorescent lights to obtain even more light per lamp -- I am experimenting with the use of this idea now. I went down to our local "Home Depot" store and purchased some 48 inch Shop light fixtures for $7.97 each (this is much cheaper even than purchasing replacement ballasts). They are pre-assembled and I spent most of the day disassembling every other one and them reassembling each pair into one overdriven dual-lamp unit, rewiring each ballast to overdrive a single lamp. I removed the ballast from one, rewired it to power a single lamp vs. dual lamps and inserted it into a light fixture where I had already rewired the on-board ballast to power one single lamp. It is easy to see that the lamps are burning much brighter - I have read reports that this produces 70% more light per lamp. I am curious to see how long the lamps last when overdriven like this. I am much more curious to find out how the plants respond to the increase in light. The fixtures come without lamps. Fortunately I had earlier located a clearance sale on Philips F40T12/Contractors CW/Alto lamps, 30 lamps for $20.00 or about $.67 each. My stockpile of these is quickly diminishing so I am anxiously looking for other sales of similar lamps. ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Sat Jan 15 07:47:15 2005 Subject: [CP] Fernando at BACPS meeting Hey folks. Is anyone going to be capturing Fernando's presentation today on video? If so,email me privately. I'm interested in seeing it! Thanks Matt -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ################### From: wwells1 at concentric.net (Bill Wells) Date: Sat Jan 15 08:53:25 2005 Subject: [CP] Fluorescent bulbs? "Sundew" wrote: > > Hi everyone, > I'm about to change all my 40 watt fluorescent bulbs. I've been using 2 > cool white, 1 warm and 1 plant and aquarium bulb per shelf for years but may > change this time so I wanted some recommendations from people with great > results growing Drosera under lights. > Anyone? Also, does anyone switch bulbs to encourage flowering? > Thanks, > Matt > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 I have been using compact fluorescent bulbs with success both for aquatic plants (including Utricularia) as well as CPs. Compact fluorescent lights produce more light per watt than regular fluorescent lights. A color temperature of 5000K through 6700K works well. I put most of my CPs outside during the summer, but the lights work well in the winter and I do use them in the summer for some small plants that I don't put ourside. I have gotten P. primulaflora and D. capensis flower under compact fluorescents. I haven't tried to get others to flower under artificial light yet, but it should work as they have a good spectrum and a high intensity. I have purchased from http://www.ahsupply.com, but there are other suppliers. Later, Bill Wells ################### From: AppleCakeTeaRoom at aol.com (AppleCakeTeaRoom@aol.com) Date: Sat Jan 15 12:15:59 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: It figures at 3am.... In a message dated 1/15/2005 2:02:51 P.M. Central Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: Cool idea. Very convenient for show and tell type displays. I wonder if the wagons start to rust out over time though? Or have they gone the way of plastic (a national tragedy if they have!). Chris It would also be great setup for plants that are temperature sensitive that would benefit from daylight weather, and would enjoy hanging out inside for the night. I was wondering the same thing, and would be hesitant to use this method for that reason, however looking at the Red Radio flyer wagon we use for my dog's carting, it seems to have quite a good coating of plastic and paint over it, and it hasn't rusted yet after 3 years of use during the winter months. ################### From: mikeferr at nycap.rr.com (Mike) Date: Sat Jan 15 16:04:12 2005 Subject: [CP] Fluorescent lights? Hi, I have been using compact fluorescent lights made by Lights of America for over a year with excellent results for all of my CPs. These lights are so bright that they're painful to stare at. They are marketed as floodlights but if you scrap the plastic lens and add a power cord they make great plant lights. I fasten two of them to a pair of 1 1/2" x 3/4" x 30" boards to make a very serviceable light fixture. Home Depot carries them and they are also selling on Ebay but I find it cheaper to buy the lights and replacement bulbs directly from the manufacturer in Massachusetts. http://www.lightsofamerica.com/floods.htm# Mike F. Here are the lamp specs: Model #'s 9265, 9266 Watts Used 65 Incandescent Wattage Equivalent 500 Size (H x D) 4.25 x 3.5 Color White, Brown Lumens 4550 Efficiency 87% Life 10,000 hrs CRI 82 Color Temp 6,500K Op. Voltage 120V Op. Freq (Hz) 50/60 3-Way NO Dimmable NO Outdoor Use (damp) NO UL YES CSA YES Energy Star YES Replacement Lamp 9166B ################### From: alexnetherton at charter.net (Alex Netherton) Date: Sat Jan 15 18:04:53 2005 Subject: [CP] Blooming Nep Hi folks; I have a N. x Judith Finn that is blooming. It is a male. It bloomed last year, spreading pollen all over the place to the point I cut off the bloom scapes - I don't suspect anyone wants Judith Finn pollen... It always seems to start this around New Year, and it makes pitchers in around August. Is there any evidence for photoperiodicity in Neps? Seems so in mine. Also, are all Judith Finn males? When it blooms it doesn't seem to make upper pitchers; all the former summer pitchers are dried up by then, and none are forthcoming until next summer; go figger. I do drop in a few beads of Osmocote fertilizer about May, but it receives little food otherwise. Potted in pure Peat moss. Alex Netherton http://alexnetherton.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.12 - Release Date: 1/14/2005 ################### From: pramodisha at yahoo.com (Pramod Agrawal) Date: Sat Jan 15 18:13:36 2005 Subject: [CP] I need help with TC for all veroieties of CPs. Dear Members, I am a new member from India. I need with help with protocols for CP tissue culture for all verieties of CPs. Please send me relevant information and links. Best Regards, Pramod. ################### From: pramodisha at yahoo.com (Pramod Agrawal) Date: Sat Jan 15 18:13:47 2005 Subject: [CP] I need help with TC for all verieties of CPs. Dear Members, I am a new member from India. I need with help with protocols for CP tissue culture for all verieties of CPs. Please send me relevant information and links. Best Regards, Pramod. ################### From: kit at carnivorousplants.nyc.ny.us (Kit Halsted) Date: Sat Jan 15 18:18:59 2005 Subject: [CP] Fluorescent lights? I had awful results with those lights. They're great until there's a glitch in the electricity, then they just die. I went through 3, then gave up on trying to use them. The manufacturer was really unhelpful, I never did get an RMA to return them. (No reflection on you, Mike, just saying that my experience wasn't as good as yours.) -Kit At 7:04 PM -0500 1/15/05, Mike wrote: >Hi, > >I have been using compact fluorescent lights made by Lights of >America for over a year with excellent results for all of my CPs. <...> -- Kit Halsted - kit@carnivorousplants.nyc.ny.us Brooklyn, NY, USDA Zone 7a ################### From: didgerowe at gotalk.net.au (Didge) Date: Sun Jan 16 22:22:56 2005 Subject: [CP] Contacting the NZ CP forum How does someone currently join the New Zealand Carnivorous Plant Forum. The only link I can find no longer works??? Regards Didge Rowe. List owner A web page for the real living stones. ################### From: Markus.Welge at teleos.de (Welge, Markus) Date: Mon Jan 17 07:11:49 2005 Subject: AW: [CP] Flourescent Lights - need heliamphora key You're indeed right to say that Heliamphora and Drosera from high altitudes also requires high light levels. And even when the plants grow in partial shade in their natural habitat they receive more light then in full sun in our regions or under any artificial lights. I think that light is the most important factor for a good and healthy growth. I grow my Heliamphora under 400W High Pressure Sodium Light. I also have very good results with TRUE-LIGHT bulbs which I use for Drosera and Genlisea. They get a very natural colour under this lights. But as far as I know flowers are induced because of lower temperatures and as Heliamphora are flowering in their natural habitat mostly in winter I think the light levels are not unsignificant but don't have such an influence on the flower production. But I can't speak for Drosera because I only grow a handful. Markus, Germany ______________________________________________ Karnivoren in Kultur... http://home.sdirekt-net.de/mwelge5/ >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 12:57:25 -0800 (PST) >From: Christoph Belanger >Subject: [CP] Flourescent Lights - need heliamphora key >To: Cp@omnisterra.com >Message-ID: <20050114205725.72313.qmail@web53806.mail.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >I use mostly daylight (I think 5000K) 3 flourescent >bulbs in conjunction with one grow light. My logic >for this is that the Venezuelan and other Drosera grow >in higher altitudes with higher lighting intensities. >I don't know if this logic makes any sense, but I just >switched all my bulbs in August and I have flower >stalks on all of my mature Heliamphoras (3 very >different-looking clones of heterodoxa and one >nutans). At ther very least I will be able to >identify my Heliamphora... > >Can anyone email to me (privately please so as not to >annoy everyone) Fernando's Heliamphora key me? It >seems my Heliamphora heard my wishes and decided to >flower... > >Christoph ################### From: pbunch at cox.net (Phil Bunch) Date: Mon Jan 17 07:44:22 2005 Subject: [CP] Flourescent Lights - need heliamphora key At -75.57N 8.26N (Venezuela Mountains +/- 2000 meters) minimum temp varies about 3C between Jan and June. Maximum temp varies about 1C. Seasonal photoperiod varies between about hour and 1.5 hours between 6 and 10 degrees of latitude. Some plants do respond to small seasonal variations in night-length. Perhaps a long (at least a year) exposure to this level of variation or would synch the plants? Phil Bunch -----Original Message----- Of Welge, Markus Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 7:12 AM To: Cp@omnisterra.com You're indeed right to say that Heliamphora and Drosera from high altitudes also requires high light levels. And even when the plants grow in partial shade in their natural habitat they receive more light then in full sun in our regions or under any artificial lights. I think that light is the most important factor for a good and healthy growth. I grow my Heliamphora under 400W High Pressure Sodium Light. I also have very good results with TRUE-LIGHT bulbs which I use for Drosera and Genlisea. They get a very natural colour under this lights. But as far as I know flowers are induced because of lower temperatures and as Heliamphora are flowering in their natural habitat mostly in winter I think the light levels are not unsignificant but don't have such an influence on the flower production. But I can't speak for Drosera because I only grow a handful. Markus, Germany ______________________________________________ Karnivoren in Kultur... http://home.sdirekt-net.de/mwelge5/ >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 12:57:25 -0800 (PST) >From: Christoph Belanger >Subject: [CP] Flourescent Lights - need heliamphora key >To: Cp@omnisterra.com >Message-ID: <20050114205725.72313.qmail@web53806.mail.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >I use mostly daylight (I think 5000K) 3 flourescent >bulbs in conjunction with one grow light. My logic >for this is that the Venezuelan and other Drosera grow >in higher altitudes with higher lighting intensities. >I don't know if this logic makes any sense, but I just >switched all my bulbs in August and I have flower >stalks on all of my mature Heliamphoras (3 very >different-looking clones of heterodoxa and one >nutans). At ther very least I will be able to >identify my Heliamphora... > >Can anyone email to me (privately please so as not to >annoy everyone) Fernando's Heliamphora key me? It >seems my Heliamphora heard my wishes and decided to >flower... > >Christoph _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.13 - Release Date: 1/16/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.13 - Release Date: 1/16/2005 ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Mon Jan 17 13:16:28 2005 Subject: [CP] news on nepenthesofthailand.com Dear Marcello and CP'ers, I was wondering, what species of _Drosera_ are present, along with the _Nepenthes_? In this photo: http://www.nepenthesofthailand.com/foto2/Pirot1.jpg There appears to be a tuberous _Drosera_ growing right next to the _N. smilesii_. It makes sense to me, since this is the only, or one of a few species of _Nepenthes_ that can form "tubers"--or at least hide underground for several months. Please see: http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~dpevans/N_kampotiana.htm Do you think this plant is _N. smilesii_? It is grown from seed produced by plants imported from Cambodia back in the early eighties or late seventies. If I have the history correct, all, or nearly all of the original plants of this kind have died out, due to the plants entering dormancy, many grower disposed of the pots before the plants returned from underground :( Or, they rotted due to being too wet. Luckily, there were both males and females and some seed was produced. My plant is supposed to be female. I am wondering what would cause it to flower? The tuberous sundews flower every year, but then again, they go dormant every summer, while this _Nepenthes_ does not... Thanks, Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of marcello catalano Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 12:37 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Dear all, I've just added the latest news to my www.nepenthesofthailand.com, they're listed on the first page, but just to make you curious: -the new taxon N. "Viking" was added to the conclusions so far; -a few pics by Tom Kahl were added to the Phu Kradung note, in the northeast map; -a new note and 3 pics of N. mirabilis, thanks to our thai agent Duke, were added to the Center Map; -the new Nepenthes of Cambodia is online, together with a few pics and notes by Julien Gedrusiak; -the new Vip bookmarks will show you how this website is becoming a point of reference for the whole planet; -also a few new lines and pics about N. Viking, thanks to Nong, Duke and Shigeo Kurata, at the bottom of The Trip page please, this site will find its best improvement in your contributions! Thanks! Marcello Catalano ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Mon Jan 17 16:06:57 2005 Subject: [CP] Crestview,Ivan damage Hey Everyone, I am happy to report that due to exact directions I was able to find the Crestviewsite. It is still there. I do not think the owner was too happy. It will be hard for him to ditch and drain because there is a fairly large lake behind the site full of Sarracenia. I cannot remember who but I know it was one of muy friends in Atlanta who gave me directions. You guys did a good job cleaning the site out, saving the Sarrs. I only found 8, 7 gulfness and 1 leuco. I got soem great pictures also. Hurrican Ivan did not do much damage to our hungary friends. All the locations I went to were fine, except many Sarrs had died down to near groundlevel, undoubtedly because of high winds. Biophilia did not hava any damage. I am happy to report that from the owner (Carol Lovell) I bought about 300 S. flava seeds from the infamous Navarre publix site. I do not know the websit,( but its title is gulfcoast Carnivores or something like that) that has pictures of this site with all the S. flava. Tre ################### From: john.wilden at hmce.gsi.gov.uk (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) Date: Mon Jan 17 23:36:44 2005 Subject: [CP] CPN (again) Dear all (ICPS officers in particular), Has there been any problems with the distribution of the December ICPN in Europe? I note that subscribers in the US seemed to have their copies prior to Christmas, but I have yet to receive mine. I thought that leaving it a while, given that the holiday season creates mayhem in the postal system, would eventually pay dividends, but so far my copy is a no-show.Have any other European subscribers received theirs yet? If I was paranoid I'd swear that this is nothing more than an attempt to prevent argument, sorry strike that, discussion on the merits of the new batch of cultivars. But I'm not, so I wont ;) Regards John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ################### From: john.wilden at hmce.gsi.gov.uk (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) Date: Tue Jan 18 05:38:06 2005 Subject: [CP] FW: Disability Living Allowance guides John Wilden Credibility Assurance and Statistics Team X38385 -----Original Message----- Sent: 17 January 2005 14:02 Dear All, I know that I have sent you guidance in the past on the methods of making your DLA claim as effective as possible. But I think that the guidance on this site is, if anything, even better. http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/benefits/guides_index.htm My thanks to Mark Hibell, who sent me the link to this site. (Admittedly quite some time ago...) Regards, Sarah VPN 8303 8950 The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. ################### From: ThomBroGar at aol.com (ThomBroGar@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 18 11:01:59 2005 Subject: [CP] Help stop an atrocity in N.C. bog country Dear friends, I was sent this and I signed it. Here is a way to possibly help save one small area. Every bit helps. If you feel strongly please pass this e-mail (without addresses attached) along to others. Brooks Here's the info: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?HELP US SAVE BRUNSWICK COUNTY Auto fluff is the non-ferrous residual left from the shredding of vehicles and appliances. ?Fluff is one of the leading sources of mercury and contains many other hazardous materials such as arsenic, cadmium, chromium, copper, lead, benzene, PAHs, ethylbenzene, PCBs, toluene, vinyl chloride, trichloroethylene, and xylenes. ?Three of these permeate state-of-the art HDPE landfill liners in 1 to 13 days. Hugo Neu, an international metal shredding giant headquartered in New York, plans to transport fluff from its shredding operations to the Cape Fear Lowlands adjacent to the Cape Fear River in Brunswick County, North Carolina, and stockpile it in a landfill 350 feet high over a 170-acre footprint. Brunswick County is home to beautiful white sand beaches, two aquifer outcroppings, ?and the Green Swamp, whose species diversity is topped only by the Great Rain Forest of Central America. ?Here in the Green Swamp Preserve, you will find longleaf pine savannas, wild orchids, and 14 varieties of insectivorous plants. http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/155621293 ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Tue Jan 18 12:21:40 2005 Subject: [CP] CPN deliveries Hey John, Well, I always get complaints about CPN deliveries. But since we have a LARGE number of international deliveries, there are always glitches with late deliveries to this or that place. It is the unfortunate event that mail takes too long to get overseas. However, we have NOT gotten the kind of mass complaints that have happened in the past when there were real problems. I remember when all the issues to Japan got sent to the wrong place, for example. What a mess. I have not gotten mass mailings about the last couple of issues... So there is no need for paranoia. Of course, I have made a note by your name in the membership roster that any CPN issues with new cultivar descriptions should not be sent to you---it was on your doctor's orders---he said something about blood pressure and heart stress. :) Cheers Barry > > > Dear all (ICPS officers in particular), > Has there been any problems with the distribution of the > December ICPN in Europe? > I note that subscribers in the US seemed to have their copies > prior to Christmas, but I have yet to receive mine. > > I thought that leaving it a while, given that the holiday > season creates mayhem in the postal system, would eventually > pay dividends, but so far my copy is a no-show.Have any other > European subscribers received theirs yet? > > If I was paranoid I'd swear that this is nothing more than an > attempt to prevent argument, sorry strike that, discussion on > the merits of the new > batch of cultivars. But I'm not, so I wont ;) ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Tue Jan 18 14:43:46 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Biophilia I forgot to add a web site www.biophilia.net Oh and Carol's last name is Lovell-Saas not just Lovell. ################### From: snong69 at hotmail.com (Nong Thailand) Date: Tue Jan 18 19:14:24 2005 Subject: [CP] Devastation of Nepenthes Viking's main Habitat after Tsunami. Hi All Nep. Enthusiasts, Nepenthes Viking is an unidentified spp. (hybrid?) that can be found on an Island in Andaman sea , west of Southern Thailand . On Sunday of 26 Dec. 2004 ,massive waves triggered by the largest earthquake in more than 40 years have wiped out coastal areas across parts of Asia, killing more than 11,000 people . Most of the Islands in Andaman sea included the remote small Island where "Viking" grow , were heavily damaged. Now I can acquire pictures disclose the devastation of Viking's habitat after Tsunami. Please visit : http://www.neofarmthailand.com/index.php?lay=show&ac=article&Id=76850&Ntype=6 Thanks. Nong _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ################### From: john.wilden at hmce.gsi.gov.uk (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) Date: Tue Jan 18 23:56:53 2005 Subject: [CP] re-disability subject -oops! Dear all, Apologies for sending the message about disability living guides. It was forwarded to this group by mistake. John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ################### From: john.wilden at hmce.gsi.gov.uk (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) Date: Wed Jan 19 00:02:33 2005 Subject: [CP] Crestview-Ivan damage Hurrican Ivan did not do much damage to our hungary friends. All the locations I went to were fine, except many Sarrs had died down to near groundlevel, undoubtedly because of high winds. I presume that rather than the high winds, they have died down because its Winter? Regards John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ################### From: Markus.Welge at teleos.de (Welge, Markus) Date: Wed Jan 19 00:21:29 2005 Subject: AW: [CP] CPN (again) I also didn't receive my copy but after asking Cindy it was immediately sent again and I received it yesterday. I'm also looking for some older copies of the ICPS-Newsletter. If anyone is able to offer some recent issues for sale please contact me privately at mailto:markus.welge@sdirekt-net.de. Markus, Germany ______________________________________________ Karnivoren in Kultur... http://home.sdirekt-net.de/mwelge5/ >------------------------------ > >Message: 3 >Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 07:37:22 -0000 >From: "Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}" > >Subject: [CP] CPN (again) >To: "CP chatgroup (E-mail)" >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Dear all (ICPS officers in particular), >Has there been any problems with the distribution of the December ICPN in >Europe? >I note that subscribers in the US seemed to have their copies prior to >Christmas, but I have yet to receive mine. > >I thought that leaving it a while, given that the holiday season creates >mayhem in the postal system, would eventually pay dividends, but so far my >copy is a no-show.Have any other European subscribers received theirs yet? > >If I was paranoid I'd swear that this is nothing more than an attempt to >prevent argument, sorry strike that, discussion on the merits of the new >batch of cultivars. But I'm not, so I wont ;) > > Regards > >John Wilden >Southport >Lancashire. >UK ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Wed Jan 19 05:25:17 2005 Subject: [CP] CPN in post John said that he had still not received his copy of the CPN. I hadn't either, a few days ago. I shouldn't worry too much John, it will turn up eventually. When Leo Song used to be involved with it all, there was something strange about the mailing system used because us Europeans used to very often receive our copies before the US. I think that this might have changed over the years, to another sytem. It's not related to anything that you've said either, so you don't have to be paranoid about it all. Your posting about the disability benefits was rather interesting, a bit off topic. These things happen when you sometimes press the wrong key. It wasn't quite as funny as the love letter that was inadvertantly posted a few years ago. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: mp.vandenbroek at wanadoo.nl (Marcel van den Broek) Date: Wed Jan 19 10:55:57 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 20, Issue 18, CPN again Hi John and others, So far total no-show of the decemberedition in the Netherlands as far as I can tell. How stands the (rest of the europian) union? Marcel van den Broek Secretary of Dutch CP workgroup Carnivora -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] Namens Cp-request@omnisterra.com Verzonden: dinsdag 18 januari 2005 21:16 Aan: Cp@omnisterra.com Onderwerp: Cp Digest, Vol 20, Issue 18 Send Cp mailing list submissions to Cp@omnisterra.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to Cp-request@omnisterra.com You can reach the person managing the list at Cp-owner@omnisterra.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Cp digest..." CP Mailing list Today's Topics: 1. RE: news on nepenthesofthailand.com (Dave Evans) 2. Crestview,Ivan damage (Tre Bond) 3. CPN (again) (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) 4. FW: Disability Living Allowance guides (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) 5. Help stop an atrocity in N.C. bog country (ThomBroGar@aol.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Marcello and CP'ers, I was wondering, what species of _Drosera_ are present, along with the _Nepenthes_? In this photo: http://www.nepenthesofthailand.com/foto2/Pirot1.jpg There appears to be a tuberous _Drosera_ growing right next to the _N. smilesii_. It makes sense to me, since this is the only, or one of a few species of _Nepenthes_ that can form "tubers"--or at least hide underground for several months. Please see: http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~dpevans/N_kampotiana.htm Do you think this plant is _N. smilesii_? It is grown from seed produced by plants imported from Cambodia back in the early eighties or late seventies. If I have the history correct, all, or nearly all of the original plants of this kind have died out, due to the plants entering dormancy, many grower disposed of the pots before the plants returned from underground :( Or, they rotted due to being too wet. Luckily, there were both males and females and some seed was produced. My plant is supposed to be female. I am wondering what would cause it to flower? The tuberous sundews flower every year, but then again, they go dormant every summer, while this _Nepenthes_ does not... Thanks, Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Behalf Of marcello catalano Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 12:37 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Dear all, I've just added the latest news to my www.nepenthesofthailand.com, they're listed on the first page, but just to make you curious: -the new taxon N. "Viking" was added to the conclusions so far; -a few pics by Tom Kahl were added to the Phu Kradung note, in the northeast map; -a new note and 3 pics of N. mirabilis, thanks to our thai agent Duke, were added to the Center Map; -the new Nepenthes of Cambodia is online, together with a few pics and notes by Julien Gedrusiak; -the new Vip bookmarks will show you how this website is becoming a point of reference for the whole planet; -also a few new lines and pics about N. Viking, thanks to Nong, Duke and Shigeo Kurata, at the bottom of The Trip page please, this site will find its best improvement in your contributions! Thanks! Marcello Catalano ------------------------------ Message: 2 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <20050118000644.69963.qmail@web53310.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hey Everyone, I am happy to report that due to exact directions I was able to find the Crestviewsite. It is still there. I do not think the owner was too happy. It will be hard for him to ditch and drain because there is a fairly large lake behind the site full of Sarracenia. I cannot remember who but I know it was one of muy friends in Atlanta who gave me directions. You guys did a good job cleaning the site out, saving the Sarrs. I only found 8, 7 gulfness and 1 leuco. I got soem great pictures also. Hurrican Ivan did not do much damage to our hungary friends. All the locations I went to were fine, except many Sarrs had died down to near groundlevel, undoubtedly because of high winds. Biophilia did not hava any damage. I am happy to report that from the owner (Carol Lovell) I bought about 300 S. flava seeds from the infamous Navarre publix site. I do not know the websit,( but its title is gulfcoast Carnivores or something like that) that has pictures of this site with all the S. flava. Tre --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page ? Try My Yahoo! ------------------------------ Message: 3 To: "CP chatgroup (E-mail)" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dear all (ICPS officers in particular), Has there been any problems with the distribution of the December ICPN in Europe? I note that subscribers in the US seemed to have their copies prior to Christmas, but I have yet to receive mine. I thought that leaving it a while, given that the holiday season creates mayhem in the postal system, would eventually pay dividends, but so far my copy is a no-show.Have any other European subscribers received theirs yet? If I was paranoid I'd swear that this is nothing more than an attempt to prevent argument, sorry strike that, discussion on the merits of the new batch of cultivars. But I'm not, so I wont ;) Regards John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ------------------------------ Message: 4 To: "CP chatgroup (E-mail)" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" John Wilden Credibility Assurance and Statistics Team X38385 -----Original Message----- Sent: 17 January 2005 14:02 Dear All, I know that I have sent you guidance in the past on the methods of making your DLA claim as effective as possible. But I think that the guidance on this site is, if anything, even better. http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/benefits/guides_index.htm My thanks to Mark Hibell, who sent me the link to this site. (Admittedly quite some time ago...) Regards, Sarah VPN 8303 8950 The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ------------------------------ Message: 5 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <7e.6140c4b3.2f1eb715@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Dear friends, I was sent this and I signed it. Here is a way to possibly help save one small area. Every bit helps. If you feel strongly please pass this e-mail (without addresses attached) along to others. Brooks Here's the info: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?HELP US SAVE BRUNSWICK COUNTY Auto fluff is the non-ferrous residual left from the shredding of vehicles and appliances. ?Fluff is one of the leading sources of mercury and contains many other hazardous materials such as arsenic, cadmium, chromium, copper, lead, benzene, PAHs, ethylbenzene, PCBs, toluene, vinyl chloride, trichloroethylene, and xylenes. ?Three of these permeate state-of-the art HDPE landfill liners in 1 to 13 days. Hugo Neu, an international metal shredding giant headquartered in New York, plans to transport fluff from its shredding operations to the Cape Fear Lowlands adjacent to the Cape Fear River in Brunswick County, North Carolina, and stockpile it in a landfill 350 feet high over a 170-acre footprint. Brunswick County is home to beautiful white sand beaches, two aquifer outcroppings, ?and the Green Swamp, whose species diversity is topped only by the Great Rain Forest of Central America. ?Here in the Green Swamp Preserve, you will find longleaf pine savannas, wild orchids, and 14 varieties of insectivorous plants. http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/155621293 ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com End of Cp Digest, Vol 20, Issue 18 ********************************** ################### From: john63401 at fastmail.fm (John) Date: Wed Jan 19 12:33:26 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 20, Issue 19 Question for the group.... What kind of living can one make in the CP world? Can a living even be made? If yes.... in what? What kind of work and what studies? Im seriously thinking abt changing job fields. Have always been in manufacturing as a CAD tech but have always had a serious interest in CP Im willing to go back to college..... but what studies for the CP industry? Thanks in advance! ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Wed Jan 19 13:23:07 2005 Subject: [CP] Making a living in CP? What "CP industry"? First, define your expectations of "making a living". Most folks that I know that grow (and sell) CPs are not getting rich from their business. For many, their business is a hobby that sometimes pays the bills and allows them to do something that they enjoy. CPs are a speciality market with a limited number of potential buyers. Some CP enthusiasts are in academic institutions and publish profound papers on the cellular chemical response Utricularia trigger hairs to stimulation. A nice job if you can get it. Others make a career arguing whether U. livida and U. microcalyx are the same or different species. Some do tissue culture for mass market throw-away nurseries. However, I expect that the vast number of people in the "CP industry" have another kind of job and grow CPs as a hobby or sideline. If I am wrong, I expect that one of you CP millionaires out there will tell us the secret of "How I made a million bucks in the CP industry". John wrote: > Question for the group.... > > What kind of living can one make in the CP world? > > Can a living even be made? If yes.... in what? What kind of work and > what studies? > > Im seriously thinking abt changing job fields. Have always been in > manufacturing as a CAD tech but have always had a serious interest in CP > > Im willing to go back to college..... but what studies for the CP > industry? > > Thanks in advance! ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Wed Jan 19 14:48:10 2005 Subject: [CP] Brit ICPS members Hey Folks, Are there any folks in the UK who have received their CPNs yet? Please email me if/when you get your issue. I'm just testing the waters regarding shipping delays. Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Wed Jan 19 15:42:16 2005 Subject: [CP] Wanted: Utricularia intermedia I am also looking for now Utricularia intermedia . Wolf ################### From: utsubokazura at hotmail.com (Amaury Watanabe) Date: Thu Jan 20 00:54:22 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: CPN Issues in Europe I have received my December issue of the CPN last week (in the UK). I don't know whether it has something to do with me being a new member or not. Hopefully everyone will get their copy soon! Cheers, Amori ################### From: paul.temple at eds.com (Temple, Paul) Date: Thu Jan 20 11:09:12 2005 Subject: [CP] Off topic - anyone translate Latin? Can anyone translate (reliably) the phrase "Spernit Inertiam" It's nothing to do with CPs but is possibly botanical (i.e. linked to a botanist). And before any Brits with a strange sense of humour comment (yes, you know who you are!), no, despite the millions I earned from the Carnivorous Plants RHS book, I can't afford to pay for a translation. :-) Answers can be sent privately unless the meaning is assumed to be of wider interest. Paul ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Thu Jan 20 14:35:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Off topic - anyone translate Latin? Pay? Ha! A quick Google search called up a freeware Latin translator. http://www.levity.com/alchemy/latin/latintrans.html It works on my Windows machine. Not sure about Mac. Anyway, it translates Spernit = He despises/scorns (as in spurn) and Inertiam sluggishness (as in inertia). Gary Kong "Temple, Paul" wrote: >Can anyone translate (reliably) the phrase > > "Spernit Inertiam" > > >It's nothing to do with CPs but is possibly botanical (i.e. linked to >a botanist). > >And before any Brits with a strange sense of humour comment (yes, you >know who you are!), no, despite the millions I earned from the >Carnivorous Plants RHS book, I can't afford to pay for a translation. >:-) > >Answers can be sent privately unless the meaning is assumed to be of >wider interest. > >Paul > > > >_______________________________________________ Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Thu Jan 20 14:47:08 2005 Subject: [CP] winter pesticide application it's midwinter in the northern half of the world and i was wondering if it makes sense to apply pesticide to my dormant plants. i finally got around to trimming last year's dead growth and noticed that my Darlingtonia had a severe thrips infestation. i fear that the infestation may extend beneath the growing medium. does anyone have any suggestions in how to eradicate the pest? i still have a nearly full bottle of Orthene, but worry that it might harm my plants while they're dormant. (aside from it being highly toxic to the environment. my plants are in containers, though.) Gary Kong -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Thu Jan 20 15:01:58 2005 Subject: [CP] Good news for threatened plants? A study by Botanic Gardens Conservation International says about 9,000 species which are threatened in the wild are in fact thriving in botanic gardens. This is about a quarter of all the plants which are known to be at risk, but a fraction of the possible total. Scientists say anything up to 100,000 species may disappear because of both habitat destruction and climate change. Unfortunately, those plants "saved" in botanic gardens would likely represent only a small portion of that species natural gene pool. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4187053.stm ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Thu Jan 20 15:18:31 2005 Subject: [CP] winter pesticide application The dormant period is often the best time to apply pesticides and other chemicals, because the plant has prepared to survive molestation by harsh conditions of winter. However, this is also the time when many pests are in protective casings and may not be as vulnerable to some pesticides. Dormant oil sprays are recommended for thrips control on fruit trees, but I don't know about Darlingtonia. I expect that Orthene would be most effective just as the nymphs are hatching. -Bob- Gary Kong wrote: > it's midwinter in the northern half of the world and i was wondering > if it makes sense to apply pesticide to my dormant plants. i finally > got around to trimming last year's dead growth and noticed that my > Darlingtonia had a severe thrips infestation. i fear that the > infestation may extend beneath the growing medium. does anyone have > any suggestions in how to eradicate the pest? i still have a nearly > full bottle of Orthene, but worry that it might harm my plants while > they're dormant. (aside from it being highly toxic to the > environment. my plants are in containers, though.) > > Gary Kong ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Thu Jan 20 16:08:59 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 20, Issue 20 Hey Paul, according to my latin dictionary it means: unskilful lover but literally means lover unskilful. Inertiam can also mean idle. I deciede to tell the whole group because I am sure many people went scrambling. On the CP front My website got approved for the webring. Message: 6 To: "'Cp@omnisterra.com'" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain Can anyone translate (reliably) the phrase "Spernit Inertiam" It's nothing to do with CPs but is possibly botanical (i.e. linked to a botanist). And before any Brits with a strange sense of humour comment (yes, you know who you are!), no, despite the millions I earned from the Carnivorous Plants RHS book, I can't afford to pay for a translation. :-) Answers can be sent privately unless the meaning is assumed to be of wider interest. Paul ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com End of Cp Digest, Vol 20, Issue 20 ********************************** ################### From: meadow at bealenet.com (meadow@bealenet.com) Date: Thu Jan 20 17:04:22 2005 Subject: [CP] making a living in CP comment - ecological monkhood Hi John: If you want to make a living raising CP I suggest you consider this a monastic devotion. The pursuit of raising, restoring, and protecting these plants truly makes us ecological monks. I can tell you that if you make the move to do this you will receive tremendous personal satisfaction but your reward will not necessarily be material. I encourage you to follow your heart and do what you have a passion to do, the rest will follow. I spent 10 years in banking making peanuts and the best move I made was to start a non-profit to devote myself to ecological restoration. If you have family then you must carefully weigh your responsibilities. I wish you luck and hope you find what you seek. Sincerely, Phil Sheridan http://www.bealenet.com ################### From: pbunch at cox.net (Phil Bunch) Date: Thu Jan 20 18:30:39 2005 Subject: [CP] Good news for threatened plants? In addition an organism outside it's habitat is only part of the story. A small part. -----Original Message----- Of Robert Ziemer Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 3:02 PM To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group A study by Botanic Gardens Conservation International says about 9,000 species which are threatened in the wild are in fact thriving in botanic gardens. This is about a quarter of all the plants which are known to be at risk, but a fraction of the possible total. Scientists say anything up to 100,000 species may disappear because of both habitat destruction and climate change. Unfortunately, those plants "saved" in botanic gardens would likely represent only a small portion of that species natural gene pool. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4187053.stm _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.0 - Release Date: 1/17/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.0 - Release Date: 1/17/2005 ################### From: jim_miller at mindspring.com (Jim Miller) Date: Thu Jan 20 20:18:38 2005 Subject: [CP] Making a living in CP? Greetings all on this chilly January evening. I had to smile at the notion of anyone making a living in the CP industry. Bob Hanrahan (of World Insectivorous Plants) used to laugh when people showed up at his facility in Arroyo Grande, California, expecting to see teams of researchers in white coats and battalions of horticulturalists, all working at a feverish pace, cloning, hybridizing and propagating the millions of plants required to fill the planet's need for carnivorous plants. True, the WIP growing facilities were impressive, but were handled pretty much by Bob alone. I'm sure there are several people who may earn a modest living from the sales of CP, or more likely, subsidize their family's income by propagating plants, but even during the "green years" (during the late 1970s and early '80s) when house plants were a big thing, the demand for CP came from a relatively small group of dedicated growers and hobbyists. John, nobody is going to make fun of you for thinking that carnivorous plants are a "cash crop" anywhere in the world. I'm sure that most of us at one time or another envisioned a burgeoning market for these fascinating plants. The truth is that CP are extremely hard to grow unless you are able to provide exacting temperatures, perfect growing mediums and proper pH levels in your water supply. Even the most tenacious growers give up after losing a few dozen plants. Typically, the most successful growers have always been individuals who found the time to get out in the field and see just how the plants grow in natural conditions. And it doesn't hurt to have a "green thumb" either. Most of the people I know, like Bob Ziemer, Brooks Garcia, Fernando Rivadavia and Stewart McPherson -- excellent gentlemen all, and just the first few to come to mind -- grow, distribute and share their experience with CP out of their love for the plants, not in hopes of ever making a single penny. Besides, if anyone ever were to get rich from CP, odds are good they wouldn't be spending their time on the Internet, helping others with taxonomy, growing tips and general information. When it comes to CP, the old show business axiom comes to mind: "Don't quit your day job!" It's advice I have always taken to heart. Patiently waiting for warmer weather, Jim ################### From: Jeremiahsplants at adelphia.net (Jeremiah Harris) Date: Thu Jan 20 20:43:15 2005 Subject: [CP] lots of my Nepenthes photos Hello, I thought you all might enjoy seeing photos of some of the Nepenthes I grow. Here is the link http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc.html?gpp=247&pst=70901 Let me know what you think thanks -Jeremiah- ________________________________________________________ Colorado Carnivorous Plant Society Jeremiah Harris 712 Columbia Rd Colorado Springs CO 80904 (719)-578-8123 AIM: Nepenthesrajah jeremiahsplants@adelphia.net http://www.geocities.com/colorado_carnivorousplantsociety/ ################### From: snong69 at hotmail.com (Nong Thailand) Date: Thu Jan 20 22:39:18 2005 Subject: [CP] NeoExoticPlant Update catalog Hi All, For ones who are interested in South East Asian Nepenthes .Thailand , Laos and Cambodia . I would like to invite you to visit our ad hoc catalog for " Tr Code plants" for special occasion and limited quantity. Thanks. Nong , NeoExoticPlants _________________________________________________________________ Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.com/ ################### From: nepenthes at borneoexotics.com (Borneo Exotics (Pvt) Ltd) Date: Thu Jan 20 23:22:25 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Making a living in CP? Ha! Ha! Bob, I'm thinking of writing a book about this and calling it: "How I spent a million bucks in CP's" Seriously though, there are a few full-time CP operatives out there. Geoff Mansell and ourselves to name but two that spring to mind. I don't know about Best Carnivorous Plants. I can tell you this though, it's hard, unrelenting, frustrating and sometimes soul destroying work. I woldn't recommend it as a career move. If I had my time over I probably would have stayed an engineer! Rob Cantley Borneo Exotics www.borneoexotcs.com ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Thu Jan 20 23:51:07 2005 Subject: [CP] Making a living in CP? In a message dated 1/20/2005 8:19:05 PM Pacific Standard Time, jim_miller@mindspring.com writes: I had to smile at the notion of anyone making a living in the CP industry. Bob Hanrahan (of World Insectivorous Plants) used to laugh when people showed up at his facility in Arroyo Grande, California, expecting to see teams of researchers in white coats and battalions of horticulturalists, all working at a feverish pace, cloning, hybridizing and propagating the millions of plants required to fill the planet's need for carnivorous plants. True, the WIP growing facilities were impressive, but were handled pretty much by Bob alone. That's certainly how I imagined his facility would look like back in the eighties when I was ordering from him. I kinda figured/hoped he was making a mint off his plants, imagine my disappointment when I heard he was closing up shop because continuing to subsidize us CP addicts was hardly a profitable endeavour. Yet, I still keep that naive view in mind of any of the companies I order from. I remember visiting Marie's Orchids back in the early nineties, expecting a large greenhouse of plants, only to find merely an extensive backyard operation. My hat's off to the people who try to make a go of it, because trying to turn this hobby into a business takes more passion than I can muster, thass fo' shure. TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Thu Jan 20 23:56:13 2005 Subject: [CP] winter pesticide application In a message dated 1/20/2005 2:47:44 PM Pacific Standard Time, garkoinsf@netscape.net writes: it's midwinter in the northern half of the world and i was wondering if it makes sense to apply pesticide to my dormant plants. i finally got around to trimming last year's dead growth and noticed that my Darlingtonia had a severe thrips infestation. i fear that the infestation may extend beneath the growing medium. does anyone have any suggestions in how to eradicate the pest? i still have a nearly full bottle of Orthene, but worry that it might harm my plants while they're dormant. (aside from it being highly toxic to the environment. my plants are in containers, though.) ----------------------------- Well, this is the time of year that I typically clean up my plants, removing dead leaves, etcetera, and applying pesticide and fungicide. It's worked well for me so far. TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Fri Jan 21 13:02:05 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Making a living on cps Hey, Well you are going to need a "real" website not free like geocities. You will also need to do constant advertising. Unless you can sell over $100 worth of plants a month you will not break even not to mention your cost of living. You will need to have a constant supply of some plants and have rare plants that no one else sells. You could start a cp nursery on the side and use that revenue to import and buy new plants for stock. I would like to start a real cp nursery on the side but do not have the money, time, or ability to hve a greenhouse. All of which dampen my efforts. At best I can, and would be advisable for you to do, is propagate lots of what you have via leaf, root and rhizome cuttings and sell or trade them on a free website. If you do not have a greenhouse that would help you a lot. I hope my suggestions have helped. Tre Bond ################### From: Jacob at cobraplant.com (Jacob Farin) Date: Fri Jan 21 19:48:55 2005 Subject: [CP] Making a living in CP? Hey Rob (Borneo Exotics), I started off as a doctor in primary care before I started managing my friend's carnivorous plant business. I had my own private practice and worked 3 days a week. After doing that for several years, the passion of medicine ran dry, and I seriously dreaded going to the office. So, I left private practice and took over the business aspect of Sarracenia Northwest. Yes, I now work 60 hours a week for less money. But, since I took over the business, sales have increased exponentially. If I had to do it all over again, I would ditch med school and study business/marketing instead. Personally, I enjoy the challenges of running a carnivorous plant nursery over running a private practice. If any of you out there want to make a living selling carnivorous plants, it can be done. The real issue is how you approach the business. It is challenging, and the market share is small, and people have a lot of preconceptions about carnivorous plants. But, that is where the real work is. Yes, you need a quality product, but the next required element is developing a long-term relationship with your customers. And you do that by understanding your market. Because the market is a lot smaller than other horticultural businesses, like lilies, bulbs, or roses, a lot of creativity is required. You can't simply set up a booth at a farmers' market or post a website, you have to have a strategy for getting through people's barrier to buying your product. (As a secret, price is not much of a factor as you might think.) I think this is how Jeff and I are able to make this a go. He has the horticultural expertise to create a good product, and I have the business expertise to sell his products. He grows the plants, and I run the business. So, if you want to make a living in CPs, it can be done. My one advice is to learn how to think like a businessperson. Start looking for ways to connect with people in meaningful ways. Jacob Farin Sarracenia Northwest ################### From: pinguiculacp at hotmail.com (Michael Lu) Date: Sat Jan 22 01:18:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Making a living in CP? Here's an article about California Carnivores that relates to this topic: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2002/10/25/NB125734.DTL ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Sat Jan 22 09:30:01 2005 Subject: [CP] making a living in CP comment - ecological monkhood As a native plant gardener,just helping preserving native cps is a good feeling. But any cps I sell the money goes towards the garden. To make a living selling CPs is same as any nurseries,a so-so business. You make a living,but not get rich. And there be many times that you don't sell any thing for few weeks,and even few months. Wolf ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sat Jan 22 15:02:11 2005 Subject: [CP] D. capillaris x. brevifolia Who has a picture of this plant? I could not find it on Bob Z's site. ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Sun Jan 23 00:56:16 2005 Subject: [CP] Making a living in CP's For most CP enthusiasts, the best option is getting a job which pays loads of money, or going into a business which does, then growing CP's as a hobby. You will certainly find this the most enjoyable way to keep CP's. If you have to keep a CP nursery day in and day out, you could find it all a bit of a drag. Although you are very keen on CP's at the moment, I think that you may find that this love of CP's will tail off a bit, if you are under pressure to make a living with them. Alastair Pearce of Southwest CP's doesn't come to many CPS meetings anymore, he's had enough of them by the end of the day. Not all businesses or jobs which you enjoy doing make a lot of money, certainly, what I do doesn't, but I wouldn't want to do anything else. I drive a van for a living, but it leaves me free to get the most out of my collection when I am not working. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Sun Jan 23 08:39:12 2005 Subject: [CP] D. meristocaulis Ladies and Gentlemen, Last weekend I went to the San Francisco bay area to see Fernando Rivadavia give a show on his latest adventure and the finding of D. meristocaulis. I am now happy to announce: we have germination! Ivan ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: CALIFCARN at aol.com (CALIFCARN@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 23 10:34:27 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: The CP Biz ################### From: jan.schlauer at uni-tuebingen.de (Priv.-Doz. Dr. Jan Schlauer) Date: Sun Jan 23 14:45:54 2005 Subject: [CP] Off topic - anyone translate Latin? Dear Paul, > "Spernit Inertiam" Could be translated as "(he/she/it =?the plant) rejects/removes idleness". The statement could be related to some biological activity of a constituent of a plant or plant extract or to the qualities of a person. Kind regards Jan ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Sun Jan 23 16:16:05 2005 Subject: [CP] re: D. meristocaulis Hi Ivan, I'm happy to hear this. My growing area's very cold right now so I think this explains why things are germinating slowly here. So far, the D. roraimaes and G. repens are up, but I'm still waiting for the hirticalyx, meristocaulis and a few others to germinate. Any day now! Matt -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Message: 3 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <20050123.083622.6286.61618@webmail22.nyc.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain Ladies and Gentlemen, Last weekend I went to the San Francisco bay area to see Fernando Rivadavia give a show on his latest adventure and the finding of D. meristocaulis. I am now happy to announce: we have germination! Ivan ################### From: parsont at peak.org (Louise Parsons) Date: Sun Jan 23 18:29:42 2005 Subject: [CP] making a living in CP comment - ecological monkhood This book is a must for anyone contemplating their own commercial nursery. "So You Want to Start a Nursery" By Tony Avent (owner of Plant Delights Nursery) 2003, Timber Press, ISBN:0-88192-584-5 http://www.timberpress.com/books/isbn.cfm/0-88192-584-5 All the best, Louise Corvallis, Oregon ################### From: ClaraVoiAunt at aol.com (ClaraVoiAunt@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 23 22:56:52 2005 Subject: [CP] . Re: Making a living on cps In My humble opinion it is possible to eek out a living as a C.P. grower if you can meet all the following conditions: 1. Own your own property. 2. Have a rich relative, partner or spouse that you can fall back on when times are lean 3. Have a large greenhouse/ shade house that is already built 4. Have a pure water supply that is uphill from where you want to grow your plants.saves on pumping the water to the plants 5. Live some place other than California, where all things are not as expensive including the labor and materials 6. Have some other plant that you can grow to market size from plugs, in 8 weeks , not 3 months to several years. 7. Not really care if your plants die in the hands of an under-educated CP. grower or retailer. 8.Be prerared to go out int the worst kind of weather to try and save your grow house from being blown away by the wind or damaging your entire crop. 9. Prepare yourself for that customer who is dissatisfied for shipping them too many plants. 10. And last but not least find people who can take care of the plants as well as you can if you become sick or disabled. ################### From: ClaraVoiAunt at aol.com (ClaraVoiAunt@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 23 23:06:01 2005 Subject: [CP] meristocaulis Hey there Ivan. I too was at that event in San Francsico. Not only did I meet and see Fernando Riverdavia give a slide show on his latest adventure of finding D meristocaulis. I met the GREAT Ivan Synder cross breeder extrordiaire of drosera, not once but trwice. It was great putting some faces to the names that Peter D is throwing around all the time. keep 'em plants growin' Lois In a message dated 1/23/2005 12:07:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: > Subject: [CP] D. meristocaulis To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: > <20050123.083622.6286.61618@webmail22.nyc.untd.com> Content-Type: > text/plain > > > > Ladies and Gentlemen, Last weekend I went to the San Francisco bay > area to see Fernando Rivadavia give a show on his latest adventure and > the finding of D. meristocaulis. I am now happy to announce: we have > germination! Ivan > ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Mon Jan 24 01:41:20 2005 Subject: [CP] D. meristocaulis Great news Ivan! Congrats, you're the first one to get these seeds to germinate, as far as I know!!! I was beginning to get worried... As for the meeting in SF, it was great seeing you and other old CP friends again, as well as meeting all those new people. Wish I'd had more time to talk to everyone though. The Berkeley Botanical Garden is beautiful and deserves a more careful visit next time I'm in the area. Best wishes, Fernando > Ladies and Gentlemen, > Last weekend I went to the San Francisco bay area to see Fernando Rivadavia give a show on his latest adventure and the finding of D. meristocaulis. I am now happy to announce: we have germination! > Ivan ################### From: vic-brown at vbrown.fsnet.co.uk (Victor Brown) Date: Mon Jan 24 03:57:50 2005 Subject: [CP] CPN Arrived UK Just a note for Barry, my copy of the CPN has just arrived. Cheers Vic Brown Cambridgeshire, UK -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 21/01/2005 ################### From: nepenthes at borneoexotics.com (Borneo Exotics (Pvt) Ltd) Date: Mon Jan 24 07:54:51 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Making a living in CP - disaster example Interesting discussions, close to my heart! I've been offline for the past 3 days so just catching up and now I'm inspired to write a little book here ;-) Before get started, Bob Hanrahan, I've stupidly accidentally deleted what appeared to be a very interesting e-mail from you on this topic off my server and don't have your e-mail address. If you're reading this, please would you resend it - thanks! Your story Jacob was particularly interesting and I hope all continues to go well for you. I do think the plants you are growing perhaps have more mass market appeal than Nepenthes. Working with Neps isn't any sort of get-rich quick scheme - that's for sure but it has it's fun aspects. It's a statistic that (in Europe at least) the majority of businesses fail in making the transition from small to medium sized. The statistics apparently show maximal mortality when the number of employees passes 17. Failure is usually the result of the boss(es) being unable to delegate efficiently. At BE we are still probably going though that transition at 35 employees and I have to confess that I trust very few of the staff entirely with such a precious and perishable item as rare Nepenthes plants. Probably the reason haven't taken a vacation in 8 years. The reason we've managed to get even this far is probably mainly because of lessons learned in the blooming and wilting of my earlier enterprise 'Isra Exotics' based out of Brunei in the 1980's. The entire nursery measured 30' x 30', about the same bench space than we lost to strong winds and rain last night alone - more about that later. It was far more of a game in those days, just me and the occasional intern, some of whom later went on to achieve fame in the CP world in their own right. One day I'll write up some anecdotes - eh Admiral?! An example of the sort of disaster that can befall a nursery at any time? Here we go: This morning we found that an unprecedented storm has wiped out a whole section of our lowland nursery. 75m (about 80 yards) of benching had been brought down with the collapse of the roof under torrential rain and amazingly strong winds. Perhaps a twister. I make that about 3,500 plants in 6" pots all over the place. The plants will for the most part be salvaged and we're lucky it's not the rarest of species. Just another day in the business. Another disaster, well mishap: We recently had to burn many thousands of healthy and for the most part rare and saleable plants on video because of a TC licensor deciding to invoke a bizarre clause in a contract that he wrote himself when I trusted him and was green about tissue culture. We had no choice but to do as he demanded. That's life, live and learn, but we've moved on and do all our own TC now. There's a video being edited as I write called 'Nepenthes @ Borneo Exotics' which may show some of the dark sides of the business such as the painful destruction of plants for legal reasons, as well as the more enjoyable aspects. As the final paragraph to my little book here, I might add that at the end of a day working with the plants or in the office, I still get enormous pleasure at having a sunset beer in my favorite nursery surrounded by fabulous stock plants that mean the world to me. Guess maybe engineering would have paid far better but one never knows what's going to happen next around here! Rob Cantley Borneo Exotics (Pvt) Ltd www.borneoexotics.com ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Mon Jan 24 08:58:29 2005 Subject: [CP] Working in the CP field Hey Folks, A lot of people have been discussing the original question of how to make a living in CP. I think the concensus is that, unless you have the extraordinary perseverence of a Peter D'Amato, it is damned difficult to make a living in the exclusive retail of carnivorous plants. I think most people "making a living" on CP are probably doing it from a research perspective. This kind of work, involving either fieldwork or laboratory work, can of course be extremely rewarding. Funding is usually through academic channels. You can also work in conservation. In this case, with the exceptional cases like Phil Sheridan's contract work aside, you are likely to be working for government agencies or nonprofits. In such cases you would probably work with carnivorous plants only a small portion of your time---you'd be working on a lot of other sites as well. Working in conservation is not for everyone---it often consists of only an occasional successful moment that must sustain you through long depressing seasons. I heard one person describing modern conservation work as an exercise in "documenting the decline." Sigh. Later! Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Director of Conservation Programs The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: fleischi01 at gmx.de (Andreas Fleischmann) Date: Mon Jan 24 14:25:57 2005 Subject: [CP] D. meristocaulis germination Dear Ivan, did your seeds germinate in vitro or under regular sowing conditions? Because I noticed the first germinating seedling today, too, but curiously it was from the half of the seeds I did sow on pure peat under warmhouse conditions. I didn't notice any visible germination of my in vitro seed so far, which is usually about 2 weeks earlier than ex vitro. All the best, Andreas -- Sparen beginnt mit GMX DSL: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Mon Jan 24 14:30:49 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Cp living 9. Prepare yourself for that customer who is dissatisfied for shipping them too many plants. Who complains about that? They are crazy. Tre ################### From: h7n at talk21.com (Nigel Hurneyman) Date: Tue Jan 25 11:19:33 2005 Subject: [CP] How To Make A Living On CPS Take 49 identical Venus' Fly Traps and number them from 1-49. Note the numbers of the first 6 to catch prey and use them in your national/state lottery (adjust the numbers as appropriate if it isn't 6 from 49). If you don't scoop the jackpot, sell your story to the national press and sell the VFTs. Good luck, NigelH ___________________________________________________________ ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ################### From: Darwinsbackyard at webtv.net (Darwin Thomas) Date: Tue Jan 25 15:17:02 2005 Subject: [CP] CP Business Hi All, I have been growing cp's for fifteen years and started a business six years ago. Knowing of no others in my area selling plants, it was obvious I would make huge profits. At this time, I have made very little income. Have maxed out two credit cards and spent large amounts of my salary from my regular job building a small greenhouse and two cold frames. Also, I have given away several plants to botanical gardens and garden clubs. Still waiting to break even. Boy, I love growing and selling cp's. Darwin Thomas ################### From: john.wilden at hmce.gsi.gov.uk (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) Date: Tue Jan 25 23:34:38 2005 Subject: [CP] CPN received Barry, I received my CPN in the post yesterday. I've not had chance to have a full read but a few initial impressions; The description and photo's of the new Heliamphora (elongata? sorry but I don't have it with me at the moment) are really great! I must admit I was puzzled looking at what looked like a typical (if there is such a thing) South American tepui with what initially looked like Nepenthes pitchers! and... Call THAT a cultivars page! Where's the controversy? Where's the descriptions of 'might-be' cultivars? Where's the......(rants on in similar vein for hours) Regards John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ################### From: tvaughan at charter.net (Tim Vaughan) Date: Wed Jan 26 07:08:03 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Making a living in CPs Hey, Rob, you need to get lazier. It's one of my few natural advantages in business. I delegate to anyone who's willing! As to the 150-200,000 Peter is said to make in the article linked, I suspect that if he has a partner he's got another source of income to make things work out. Here in California people have no idea how expensive it is to run a business. I gross more than that with my landscaping business, but there's no way two families could earn a living on the profit I make. ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Wed Jan 26 09:56:09 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: D. meristocaulis Hi Andreas, I have only had 2 germinate so far. These were sowed on chopped long fiber sphagnum and incubated at warm temperature. I expect more to germinate and will write on this later. I wish you and everyone else getting seed good luck. This is an especially interesting species. Ivan >did your seeds germinate in vitro or under regular sowing conditions? Because I noticed the first germinating seedling today, too, but curiously it was from the half of the seeds I did sow on pure peat under warmhouse conditions. I didn't notice any visible germination of my in vitro seed so far, which is usually about 2 weeks earlier than ex vitro. All the best, Andreas ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: CALIFCARN at aol.com (CALIFCARN@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 26 13:04:53 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Coolie Wages ################### From: CALIFCARN at aol.com (CALIFCARN@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 26 13:09:14 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: It's the Economy.... ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Wed Jan 26 13:50:22 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Coolie Wages Yeah i must say thats a testament to the fact that if it can be done in the bay are it can be done anywhere. Really im surprised there isnt a mass exodus from there due to the cost of living. i know there is amongst alot of young people down here. thats why my girlfriend and i are saving up and moving to florida in may. --- CALIFCARN@aol.com wrote: > Howdy: At California Carnivores we have a few > employees but most of us have > only this one job. It helps when your house mortgage > is only $400 a month and > have no family to support. However, we would > certainly have a higher standard > of living if we lived, let's say, in Mississippi, > instead of the outrageously > expensive Bay Area of California. Seeya. Peter > D'Amato > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: tvaughan at charter.net (Tim Vaughan) Date: Wed Jan 26 14:05:05 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Coolie wages Hey, Peter Well, with a 400 dollar mortgage, that's different. But still, with employees that amount of money gets eaten up quick with workman's comp, general liability, etc..I got my contractor's license 18 years ago and have never had an injury, but even with Arnold's reforms, I still pay 20% in addition to everything else on wages. And I've had the same thoughts as you and Christopher lately. What happened here in California anyway? It's like they want us all to go to work for Walmart. Those who are running things seem to thing we small business types are a danger to the state. ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Wed Jan 26 14:29:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Coolie wages Tim, You small business guys are indeed a danger to the State and all that it stands for. Business owners in California (and the US) are expected to contribute a large portion of their income to political parties. It is called "pay to play". I seriously doubt that you are in the $100,000 club and probably did not get tickets to either Awnald's or Dubia's inaugural ball, or even to the cheap seats along the parade route. -Bob- Tim Vaughan wrote: > What happened here in California anyway? It's like they want us all > to go to work for Walmart. Those who are running things seem to thing > we small business types are a danger to the state. ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Wed Jan 26 14:31:49 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Coolie wages Dear Tim, Well, if it is a choice between working at Wal-Mart or growing and selling CP's, I think I would quit my day job :) Really, it does seem like Wal-Mart wants to eat up the market, towns are suing them to keep them out, other towns are giving them land to build super centers. Dave E -----Original Message----- Of Tim Vaughan Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 5:06 PM Hey, Peter Well, with a 400 dollar mortgage, that's different. But still, with employees that amount of money gets eaten up quick with workman's comp, general liability, etc..I got my contractor's license 18 years ago and have never had an injury, but even with Arnold's reforms, I still pay 20% in addition to everything else on wages. And I've had the same thoughts as you and Christopher lately. What happened here in California anyway? It's like they want us all to go to work for Wal-Mart. Those who are running things seem to thing we small business types are a danger to the state. Best Tim ################### From: Killerplants at aol.com (Killerplants@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 26 18:16:35 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: RE: D. meristocaulis Ivan, Andreas and All, Why do you suppose warmth is making such a difference. Maybe my brain is scrambled, but I thought it was a highland plant. Cheers, Joe Griffin Lincoln, NE USA ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Wed Jan 26 18:43:35 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: D. meristocaulis Dear Joe, During the day, the light warms things up. Many species of plant have seeds which need at least 75 F. (day temps) for best germination and seedling growth. Where the sunlight is 'falling' the soil surface can easily reach 85 F., or more. Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of Killerplants@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 9:16 PM Ivan, Andreas and All, Why do you suppose warmth is making such a difference? Maybe my brain is scrambled, but I thought it was a highland plant. Joe Griffin Lincoln, NE USA ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 26 23:39:45 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Coolie wages In a message dated 1/26/2005 2:05:31 PM Pacific Standard Time, tvaughan@charter.net writes: Well, with a 400 dollar mortgage, that's different. But still, with employees that amount of money gets eaten up quick with workman's comp, general liability, etc..I got my contractor's license 18 years ago and have never had an injury, but even with Arnold's reforms, I still pay 20% in addition to everything else on wages. -------------------- When I used to manage a restaurant in Illinois, they wanted the labor rate to be at 20%. I usually managed 16% (on a good day) to 18% (on a bad day). But I imagine spending 20% of your gross on labor must be a fairly typical scenario for a small business no matter where you are.... TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: stephenwd at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Davis) Date: Thu Jan 27 00:21:52 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Coolie Wages Sometimes I wonder why we don't all leave California too. But then I'm reminded why when I have to make tough choices like, do I go surfing with one of my buddies this weekend, or hit the slopes and ski with my family?..Hey, why not do both.? I've gone skiing on Saturday and SCUBA diving on Sunday. (Never do it the other way around though. There are rules even in paradise.) That's why I stay, plus family. Not to mention the perfect climate for growing CP. I can grow temperate and tropical plants with little effort. Stephen Davis stephenwd@sbcglobal.net www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com -----Original Message----- Of Christopher Hind Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 1:50 PM To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Yeah i must say thats a testament to the fact that if it can be done in the bay are it can be done anywhere. Really im surprised there isnt a mass exodus from there due to the cost of living. i know there is amongst alot of young people down here. thats why my girlfriend and i are saving up and moving to florida in may. --- CALIFCARN@aol.com wrote: > Howdy: At California Carnivores we have a few > employees but most of us have > only this one job. It helps when your house mortgage > is only $400 a month and > have no family to support. However, we would > certainly have a higher standard > of living if we lived, let's say, in Mississippi, > instead of the outrageously > expensive Bay Area of California. Seeya. Peter > D'Amato > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: stephenwd at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Davis) Date: Thu Jan 27 00:28:28 2005 Subject: [CP] Good VFT article Hey all, I found this article on the web on how the VFT works. http://www.livescience.com/othernews/050126_venus_flytrap.html Is any of this new? He seems pretty confident about this, which I find interesting as so many people have been working on this without a complete explanation.or is there one that we all agree on now? Stephen Davis stephenwd@sbcglobal.net www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Thu Jan 27 02:32:16 2005 Subject: [CP] D.meristocaulis seed germination pattern Hello to Ivan and all who are attempting to germinate D.meristocaulis!! I'd like to ask for all your help. In 1997 Conran et al published a cool paper entitled "Droseraceae germination patterns and their taxonomic significance". They showed that there is a lot of taxonomic information that can be obtained by observing the germination of Drosera seeds. Although Therefore, it would be extremely interesting to register the initial stages of D.meristocaulis germination. These are the characteristics to observe: 1.) Do cotyledons emerge from the seed testa? There are 3 types: -- Phanerocotylar - cotyledons emerge fully from the seed (known from D.burmannii, D.binata, D.hamiltonii, D.indica, most New World, African, & north temperate Drosera spp.) -- Hemicryptocotylar - cotyledons partially emerge from the seed and photosynthetic (only known from D.adelae among Drosera) -- Cryptocotylar - cotyledons remain largely enclosed withing seed (known from tuberous & pygmy Drosera, the petiolaris-complex, D.glanduligera, and I suspect D.meristocaulis too) 2.) Do the cotyledons have sessile glands? Numerous taxa from subgen Drosera are known to have them, but I'd guess D.meristocaulis doesn't. 3.) Are the first leaves reduced, non-carnivorous and generally prophyllar? This characteristic is known from erect tuberous species of sect.Ergaleium and is probably not the case of D.meristocaulis. 4.) Are all the leaves alternate or is the first pair (or initial pairs) opposite and the rest alternate? It is not clear in the paper which species have this character. On table 1 only one species from section Arachnopus (as well as Drosophyllum) is said to have opposite first leaves, but below this table on page 215 it is written: "First leaves were alternative in all taxa except Drosophyllum, and non-carnivorous first leaves confined to Aldrovanda and a few taxa within sect.Ergaleium." 5.) What was the minimum number of days to first germination? The longest times to germination were registered for tuberous & pygmy species and those of sect.Ptycnostygma (cistiflora, pauciflora, etc.), with mean values of 90-174 days (probably reflecting the summer dormancy habits of these taxa).Most of the remaining taxa varied from 10-40 days, which seems to be the case for D.meristocaulis. But please register, if possible, the number of days to first germination for D.meristocaulis and we'll average them out afterwards. Thanks! Fernando Rivadavia ################### From: tvaughan at charter.net (Tim Vaughan) Date: Thu Jan 27 04:29:50 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Coolie wages ################### From: hpulley at rogers.com (Harry Pulley) Date: Thu Jan 27 05:59:54 2005 Subject: [CP] VFT and Sarr flowers already -- bad? My plants live in a bay window with old leaky single-pane glass (so I get ice inside the windows here in Canada). This seemed to be good for giving my VFTs and Sarrs a rest with the flytrap slowing down and putting out stunted traps and the Sarrs leaves withering away (not completely but fairly well). But... we had a warm spell the other week (up to spring temps) and the house is heated so both the VFT and at least one Sarr (Scarlet Belle) have already started putting up flower stalks. I know the general VFT advice is to snip it and I did cut it this same time last year with good results (a nice healthy flytrap) so I'll snip it again but I wonder about the Sarr. I know that forced Sarrs in greenhouses are flowering around now (much further than mine as they'd have buds for Christmas presents) -- is January too early for Scarlet Belle? Should it be snipped too? I love the red flowers so I'd hate to snip it if it won't put more out in April. I can't see any on my purpurea yet. Harry -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/05 ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Thu Jan 27 09:06:52 2005 Subject: [CP] Good VFT article I believe this was originally published in August 2004 in http://fluid.ippt.gov.pl/ictam04/text/sessions/docs/MS2/11581/MS2_11581.pdf Two of the authors moved to Harvard, which apparently has a better public relations shop. -Bob- Stephen Davis wrote: > Hey all, > > I found this article on the web on how the VFT works. > > http://www.livescience.com/othernews/050126_venus_flytrap.html > > Is any of this new? He seems pretty confident about this, which I find > interesting as so many people have been working on this without a complete > explanation.or is there one that we all agree on now? > > Stephen Davis > > stephenwd@sbcglobal.net > > www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com ################### From: goffinses at yahoo.com (L.) Date: Thu Jan 27 09:08:09 2005 Subject: [CP] status of Tristan's CPs? Hello all, I am making a visit to the Big Island of Hawai'i in a couple weeks and recalled that Tristan's CPs was located there. I don't recall if the nursery is open to visits from the public, but I can't check because the website (www.tristanscps.com) is not operational. Does anyone know if the nursery is still open and/or if the website has changed, and how I might contact them? Feel free to contact me off-list, if so. Many thanks, Laurel Underhill, VT __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Thu Jan 27 09:40:33 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Coolie wages In a message dated 1/27/2005 4:30:48 AM Pacific Standard Time, tvaughan@charter.net writes: Hamir, you misunderstand. The 20 percent is an insurance premium you pay on the labor payroll, in addition to several others. ----------------- Ah, I thought you were talking about the actual dollars paid out in labor versus what was taken in. Yes, I've heard that Insurance and Workman's comp can be a real bugaboo in running a small business. Which is why I'm content working on my own and not expanding. TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: pthiel at ecfactory.net (Pete Thiel) Date: Thu Jan 27 09:54:14 2005 Subject: [CP] status of Tristan's CPs? The site being down was a result of a database server crash. It should be back up and available again. Cheers Pete -----Original Message----- Of L. Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 12:08 PM To: cp@omnisterra.com Hello all, I am making a visit to the Big Island of Hawai'i in a couple weeks and recalled that Tristan's CPs was located there. I don't recall if the nursery is open to visits from the public, but I can't check because the website (www.tristanscps.com) is not operational. Does anyone know if the nursery is still open and/or if the website has changed, and how I might contact them? Feel free to contact me off-list, if so. Many thanks, Laurel Underhill, VT __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Thu Jan 27 10:14:07 2005 Subject: [CP] status of Tristan's CPs? www.tristanscps.com does seem to be back up and working now. Pete Thiel wrote: > The site being down was a result of a database server crash. It should be > back up and available again. > > Cheers > Pete > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On Behalf > Of L. > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 12:08 PM > To: cp@omnisterra.com > Subject: [CP] status of Tristan's CPs? > > Hello all, > > I am making a visit to the Big Island of Hawai'i in a couple weeks and > recalled that Tristan's CPs > was located there. I don't recall if the nursery is open to visits from the > public, but I can't > check because the website (www.tristanscps.com) is not operational. Does > anyone know if the > nursery is still open and/or if the website has changed, and how I might > contact them? > > Feel free to contact me off-list, if so. > > Many thanks, > > Laurel > Underhill, VT ################### From: utricularia4242 at hotmail.com (Travis Wyman) Date: Thu Jan 27 10:34:21 2005 Subject: [CP] U. campbelliana and U. buntingiana Hello everyone, Hoping to get some help on a couple things here. First, I am searching for U. campbelliana. I have had little luck locating any U.S. growers but I hear tha it is circulating in Europe and Japan. If anyone has this plant or knows someone with this plant and is willing to make a trade or sale I would be interested in hearing from you. Second, I have heard a rumor that U. buntingiana has been located in Costa Rica. If anyone can confirm this and possibly provide me with the location I would be very greatful. I have professional contacts that have the permits necessary to collect in that country and they are interested in introducing this species to cultivation. Please reply off list Thanks for your time Travis Travis H. Wyman Microbiology & Molecular Genetics Emory University twyman@emory.edu ################### From: pcrane at petflytrap.com (Phillip Crane) Date: Thu Jan 27 12:52:10 2005 Subject: [CP] re: making a living in CPs Hi All, I've been watching the dialogue about making a living in CPs. I have to say we've been very fortunate and have done quite well with our business (petflytrap.com/junglesupply.com). It takes 3-5 people here to run the business depending on the season and we're all full time and love it! That being said, we've grown so much in different directions that we're considering selling off the CP portion of our business. Since it's profitable and stable --- we thought it'd be a good time to let someone else guide it! So it's doable... you have to have some marketing experience, passion for the plants and love to teach the newbies. And do it all with charm. :) -Phillip petflytrap.com ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Thu Jan 27 13:09:43 2005 Subject: [CP] D. capillaris x. brevifolia Does anyone know anything about this plant? Does anyone have pictures or a description? Please tell me if you do. I know that atleast 5 people in Japan have it but I am having problems contacting them and communicating. (Mainly becasue I cannot read japanese and neither can my computer). If you know where I can find anything about it please tell me. Tre Bond www.geocities.com/Treaqum1/index.html www.geocities.com/Treaqum/index.html ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Thu Jan 27 14:19:39 2005 Subject: [CP] D. capillaris x. brevifolia Dear Tre, I'll try to cross pollinate them when they flower in a month or so. Making seed is probably the easiest way to come by it. Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of Tre Bond Does anyone know anything about this plant? Does anyone have pictures or a description? Please tell me if you do. I know that at least 5 people in Japan have it but I am having problems contacting them and communicating. (Mainly because I cannot read Japanese and neither can my computer). If you know where I can find anything about it please tell me. Tre Bond ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Thu Jan 27 14:29:19 2005 Subject: [CP] re: making a living in CPs It basicly common sense. You need to know how nurseries do? They don't sell a lot of plants all the time. There are good days and bad,and so on. And not many people garden,nor have plants in there homes. But it helps to know what is popular and mainly bought,and educating people on the plants they plan on growing? You would also need to use sense of prices ,room,and supplies? So think first,and learn more about nurseries. Wolf ################### From: dinesh at ndbib.lanka.net (Dinesh Fernando) Date: Thu Jan 27 18:46:56 2005 Subject: [CP] CP nurseries / US markets I suspect the number of CPs sold in the States would have increased over these last few years. If nurseries in the States are struggling, that implies an increasing proportion of CPs are being imported to meet US demand. Does anyone have an idea which countries export CPs to the US, what type of CPs are exported, and who are the main suppliers? Has anyone done a study on the quantities and species / hybrids of CPs sold in the States? > > Peter here at California Carnivores. I really should mention that the > struggle of CP nurseries at least here in the States in the last few years has to do > with the economy's downturn since 911 and the Iraq war. Vintage Gardens, the > largest rose nursery in America on whose property we lease our facilities, has > sales down 70%, so it hardly has to do with carnivorous plants, per se. Seeya. > Peter > > > ------------------------------ ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Thu Jan 27 19:24:57 2005 Subject: [CP] CP nurseries / US markets > I suspect the number of CPs sold in the States would > have increased over > these last few years. If nurseries in the States > are struggling, that > implies an increasing proportion of CPs are being > imported to meet US > demand. Does anyone have an idea which countries > export CPs to the US, what > type of CPs are exported, and who are the main > suppliers? Has anyone done a > study on the quantities and species / hybrids of CPs > sold in the States? haha. DEMAND? what demand? You could perhaps create demand for them if you tried to get people into using sarracenia pitchers in the cut flower industry but as far as demand goes most people dont even know about carnivorous plants or only know about flytraps. I asked a ranger in florida where to find sundews to see in the wild and he looked at me totally lost and told me to spell it. There are a few nursery companies like booman floral that sells CP at home depot, target or trader joes all very rarely out here in california. it will be quite the event if walmart ever starts carrying them but most of the time the plants just end up dying and getting thrown out. what we need is to get the word out or perhaps get it in media, the more press the greater visibility, the more demand. ################### From: goffinses at yahoo.com (L.) Date: Thu Jan 27 21:13:29 2005 Subject: [CP] thanks re: Tristan's; ping article; archive search; California Thanks all for the help with Tristan's. I guess I just had the bad luck to hit the site at the wrong time. I forgot to say that when I was at the library the other day (I'm a grad student ... unfortunately) I came across an article on Pings in the British Isles. I don't normally pay attention to Ping info and so I'm not sure if it's been mentioned here, or if it has particularly interesting information. It's in the Journal of Ecology December 2004 issue, and as it so happens the content is free: a PDF is available here: http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi/10.1111/j.0022-0477.2004.00942.x/abs/ Speaking of which--is there a way to make the listserv archives searchable up till the present instead of back in 2003? I wasn't sure if the search form was just outdated, or whether there is a reason for the limitation. I used to live in (southern) CA. It is indeed crazy expensive. On the other hand, much of the area I'm from--eastern Massachusetts--is not much cheaper, and we (the Northeast) are freezing our asses off right now.... so it could be worse! Anyway, I would say that California overall is a lot more "quirky" than Florida. Whether that's worth paying extra for, depends on you, though! It's all trade-offs. I am trying to figure out a place that I would be at home in and where it would be easier to grow my beloved plants, and it's not easy. Cheers (at 7 degrees below zero right now), Laurel __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ################### From: stovehouse at earthlink.net (Michael Hunt) Date: Fri Jan 28 10:25:53 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 20, Issue 26 Message: 1 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <19702-41F6D360-3378@storefull-3137.bay.webtv.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Hi All, I have been growing cp's for fifteen years and started a business six years ago. Knowing of no others in my area selling plants, it was obvious I would make huge profits. At this time, I have made very little income. Have maxed out two credit cards and spent large amounts of my salary from my regular job building a small greenhouse and two cold frames. Also, I have given away several plants to botanical gardens and garden clubs. Still waiting to break even. Boy, I love growing and selling cp's. Darwin Thomas Hmmmm....... something Darwin says rings a bell. Mike St. Pete Florida ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (fe_riva) Date: Fri Jan 28 11:09:34 2005 Subject: [CP] D.meristocaulis seed germination!! Great news!!! Other than Ivan Snyder, another friend has reported success germinating D.meristocaulis in vitro! "I already had and am having plenty of germination of D.meristocaulis. Mine have started by growing a fine deep red , tap root.approximatly 1 week ago." Yep, sounds like a true pygmy Drosera! ;) Good luck to all, Fernando Rivadavia __________________________________________________________________________ Acabe com aquelas janelinhas que pulam na sua tela. AntiPop-up UOL - ? gr?tis! http://antipopup.uol.com.br/ ################### From: ddarnows at ius.edu (Darnowski, Douglas William) Date: Fri Jan 28 12:07:50 2005 Subject: [CP] Announcement of the Next ICPS Meeting The 2006 Meeting of the ICPS will be held at Frostburg State University in Frostburg, Maryland, from Friday June 2, 2006, to Sunday June 4, 2006 (participants can arrive Thursday June 1), with field trips on Monday June 5. Frostburg is several hours west of the Washington/Baltimore/Philadelphia area, and Frostburg University has a conference center experience d in hosting international conferences. Transportation to and from major international airports will be available, and there are several relevant for this meeting. Housing and meals will be available on the University campus as well as in hotels near the University, and space for vendors will be available very close to the sites for talks and posters. In addition to all of the usual activities, the committee is planning a workshop on botanical art and one on using cp?s to teach children about science. Several fieldtrips to the Middle Atlantic region of the USA are being planned for immediately after the conference. For updates on the web, please watch the ICPS homepage www.carnivorousplants.org for links to the conference website, which should be available during February 2005 for information, mid-2005 for registration and abstract submission. The organizing committee is co-chaired by Doug Darnowski of Indiana University Southeast and Hong-qi Li of Frostburg State University and also includes Terre Golembiewski of the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater and Steve Williams of Lebanon Valley College. ################### From: la_islita_de_encanta at yahoo.com (Christina Anderson) Date: Fri Jan 28 12:51:50 2005 Subject: [CP] Walmart There are a few nursery companies like booman floral that sells CP at home depot, target or trader joes all very rarely out here in california. it will be quite the event if walmart ever starts carrying them but most of the time the plants just end up dying and getting thrown out. what we need is to get the word out or perhaps get it in media, the more press the greater visibility, the more demand. Our local Walmart in a small town in northern Indiana has carried VTFs numerous times. They periodically will get a case of them enclosed in the small plastic-cup-greenhouses. The plants are of average quality and seem to sell well enough until they start drying out and curling up. I've never bought them as the Lowes plants seem to be slightly better and sometimes have a longer shelf life! At the checkout, I often catch people leering at my plants and visibly or audibly "what the heck is that!?" Sometimes I explain. Other times I just walk away mysteriously. Christina ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Fri Jan 28 13:24:48 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: inports Well imports are not considered a problem with me. Obviously Major Cp nursery would not like it but imports are the only way to find some hard to get plants. I think the major problem is too much same old same old. You can get VFTs, many Drosera, most Sarrs, and some Neps from most of or all of the Cp nurseries in the US. Who would make a killing is someone with rare plants for average prices. I cannot afford to pay or would I want to pay $20 or more for a Drosera of any species. Well some of the rare-er ones yes (newly discovered, re-discovered). I cannot speak for anyone else on this list but pricing is a mojor factor when I am going to buy something. I organized a group order to Triffid Park and think it has gone rather well so far. The only reason I did this was because I could buy a bunch of stuff (pings mostly) for about $5.50 each. So for $40 I could get more and certainly rare (In the US) pings for a lot cheeper then say P. esseriana or another "common" mexican ping. I do realise that space is hard pressed and so are wages but some of the Nurseries in the US might thinking of broadening a bit. I think California Carnivores is starting too. Cooks is an excellent example fo a broad nursery. He will sell you almost anything on his growlist which is quite huge (check it out at the CCPS forum). Many of the Nurseries in the US will also do that but they do not seem so open (for lack of a better word). My two cents Tre ################### From: voodoodancer at gmail.com (Mark) Date: Fri Jan 28 17:57:38 2005 Subject: [CP] everybody that signed the petitions,,, Thank you!! I just received this letter, and I want everybody that signed the petition against the landfill in NC to read it. Hi Mark, Was just looking at the petition site and find it's taking a jump, over 700 this week, and an amazing number of them refer to the carnivorous plants. Please pass our thanks along and thank you for getting the word out. We're building forces, have found that there are now 6 dump sites trying to locate in NC. It will only take four of them to make us the 4th greatest importer of trash in the nation, just got that from the NC Div of Solid Waste today. The fact that trash has become a statewide problem will help us, I think. We're working on a motorcade to the capital from all the sites to bring public attention to the problem. We're also working on a brochure and would like to have a listing of organizations supporting us in the brochure. Could you see about getting a letter of support from the International Society? I heard someone suggesting they do something else with the land instead of making it a dump, maybe make it a state park. I don't know where that will go, but the people who live next to the site have told me it used to be full of fly traps and pitcher plants. Of course, IP has seen that it's been well drained and sprayed; but left alone to detox, they might come back with a little help. Just a thought ~ Thanks again, Gean Please sign our Stop the Hugo Neu Landfill Petition at: www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/155621293 Gean M. Seay Swamp Watch Action Team 223 Benson Road NE Leland, NC 28451 Just a note "IP" stands for International Paper Well what more can I say? You guys stepped up when we needed you. When we stand together we can make a difference. I can't say thank you enough. Please pass this letter on to all the people that you forwarded the the petition to. Thank you. :) Paypal is nothing but hightech common thieves. Check out their customer feedback http://www.planetfeedback.com/sharedLettersList/0,2941,101112-70-0-0-20-0-fb_date-desc,00.html Don't become another paypal victim ################### From: Writerguy67 at aol.com (Writerguy67@aol.com) Date: Fri Jan 28 19:44:16 2005 Subject: [CP] 2006 ICPS It will be nice to have the ICPS meeting (almost) in my backyard! Although the CP locations in the immediate vicinity of Frostburg are few (to my knowledge anyway -- the best known is a glacial relic kettle bog, home to D. rotundifolia and (I've been told) some introduced S. purpurea), Washington, DC and Baltimore, MD are a few hours east. Several well-known CP nurseries aren't far (Botanique and Meadowview), and natural locales within a day's drive include the New Jersey Pine Barrens. Haven't been to a conference since 1997 in Atlanta. Looking forward to the next. Jay Lechtman Ashburn, Virginia, USA ################### From: gregharmison at houston.rr.com (Greg Harmison) Date: Sat Jan 29 09:44:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Walmart There is a tissue culture oufit out of Florida that sells CP's by the cell tray. Their site id www.agristarts3.com and while it is not on their website, thier old catalog offered 2 types of Heliamphoras as well. I'm not sure the public would be well served buying one of these from a mass marketer. I have been growing for about 24 years, and still can't seem to keep the darn things alive. The botanic garden I wirk for has ordered from them in the past (hybrid Sarracenias) and they seem to be of good quality. They are not making a living off these alone, but if you are willing to grow other than CP's as well, they could be a part of your product base. Greg H ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 2:51 PM > > > > There are a few nursery companies like booman floral > that sells CP at home depot, target or trader joes all > very rarely out here in california. it will be quite > the event if walmart ever starts carrying them but > most of the time the plants just end up dying and > getting thrown out. what we need is to get the word > out or perhaps get it in media, the more press the > greater visibility, the more demand. > > Our local Walmart in a small town in northern Indiana has carried VTFs > numerous times. They periodically will get a case of them enclosed in the > small plastic-cup-greenhouses. The plants are of average quality and seem > to sell well enough until they start drying out and curling up. I've > never bought them as the Lowes plants seem to be slightly better and > sometimes have a longer shelf life! > > At the checkout, I often catch people leering at my plants and visibly or > audibly "what the heck is that!?" Sometimes I explain. Other times I > just walk away mysteriously. > > Christina > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Sat Jan 29 10:17:56 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: D.meristocaulis seed germination pattern Hi Fernando, I am watching the seed closely. So far we can conclude that the seed does not require a cold stratification before germination can begin. 10-40 days is a good conservative range. I am familiar with Cryptocotylar germination as seen in D. glanduligera. What I see in D. meristocaulis is Phanerocotylar. I do not believe all pygmies are Cryptocotylar. My seedlings have not yet cast off their seed coat but will do so soon; more then. It is an interesting mystery as to where this species fits taxonomically. I like your idea that it is close to the Australian pygmy Drosera and possibly represents a branch of this group. Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sat Jan 29 13:50:30 2005 Subject: [CP] ICPS conference Yes I will hopefully be able to go. My first ever. I really hope my tickets to France are not during then ################### From: Darwinsbackyard at webtv.net (Darwin Thomas) Date: Sat Jan 29 14:36:24 2005 Subject: [CP] S. purpurea "chipola" Hi all I purchased a plant from Clyde Bramblett several years ago. It was labelled S. purpurea "chipola". It resembles S purpurea "montanae" but does not have the yellow coloring. Does any one know where this plant originated? It has grown well for me and has produced many large traps. Darwin Thomas ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Sat Jan 29 23:52:49 2005 Subject: [CP] highland tanks and difficult growing conditions - brainstorm i remember a number of years ago standing on that hillside in weed, ca staring at the darlingtonia, my first experience seeing CPs in the wild. i was observing the plants, being surrounded by mountains covered in pine forests, feeling the heat beating down on my back and watching ice cold water running through the roots and asking myself HOW THE HELL DO I RECREATE THESE CONDITIONS? i also remember getting a drosophyllum from ivan snyder years ago when i was living with my parents in redondo beach and finding the only way i could successfully grow it was to leave it in the windowsill with the window open at all times so it could absorb the constant fog coming from the ocean and realizing that that just wasnt an option for people attempting to grow it inland. has anyone actually had darlingtonia or drosophyllum THRIVE in captivity? What id like to see is a brainstorming session on how to get difficult plants to thrive in captivity. electricity bills be damned, figure out how to do it first and THEN try to save money by reducing the complexity. i also wonder if some of the expense couldnt be recovered by having fans connected to your house with its central AC unit blowing air through dryer hoses to enclosed tanks sitting in the sun outside with the air then recirculated back into the house. if you blow air fast enough it wont be given enough time to warm up but you could still use the sunlight. how can you create cold fog in a tank environment? it seems ALOT easier to create hot/wet or cold/dry conditions than it is to create hot/dry or cold/wet conditions unless you just happen to live in a place that supports that natively. i have heard of people growing darlingtonia on slanted tables with a pump that would pump water from a cold barrel below up to the top of the table which would then run down the slant that the plants were planted on. im really not sure how you would begin to grow drosophyllum in captivity if you didnt have access to ocean fog since it gets so much of its moisture from the fog directly. im sure as far as hot/dry conditions a tank recreating those conditions would be very handy to people such as cactus enthusiasts in south florida who watch their attempts at growing cacti rot from the heat and humidity. ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Sun Jan 30 03:38:15 2005 Subject: [CP] Conference 2006 Maryland So, the 2006 ICPS Conference will be in Maryland. So it's Maryland for a holiday next year, that's always my excuse to visit a part of the world that I haven't been to before. I better start saving the pennies. I've been to all the conferences except Japan, which was too expensive for me. Talking of conferences, does anyone know anything about the EEE this year ? They delayed it last year because the ICPS conference was held in Europe and it would clash with it. I think that it was the intention to hold it in the Czech Republic somewhere. Does anyone know of a website or other details ? Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: Cokendolpher at aol.com (Cokendolpher@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 30 10:35:46 2005 Subject: [CP] highland tanks and difficult growing conditions - brainstorm In a message dated 1/30/05 1:54:03 AM, cixcell@yahoo.com writes: > i have heard of people growing darlingtonia on slanted > tables with a pump that would pump water from a cold > barrel below up to the top of the table which would > then run down the slant that the plants were planted > on. > ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Sun Jan 30 11:09:51 2005 Subject: [CP] highland tanks and difficult growing conditions - brainstorm > I had a similar setup. I had a drum buried in the > ground of the greenhouse > and pumped cool water up to the darlingtonia and > then the water overflowed to > the drum. Worked good until the pump stopped one > day and all was lost. > Darlingtonia just cannot take hot baking sun without > the cool root water. My > advice, run at least two pumps in case one fails. > Might also be a good idea to > add a float switch with an alarm so power outages > can not cause a problem. what kind of pumps did you use. i was wondering about using a saltwater aquarium powerhead like a maxijet 1200 powerhead http://amekaaquatics.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/maxijet%201200.jpg with some tubes and maybe some sort of filter to prevent it from getting clogged. they could easily run on a computer battery backup as well so if they power failed it would keep pumping plus it doesnt use alot of power so itd last for a pretty nice sized outage. > For a dense fog, you will need commercial > hydrofogger and a greenhouse. You > will also need a good source of pure water and > either a timer or a humidistat. > Greenhouse supply stores have various models for > sale. ahh but how do you air condition the greenhouse AND fog at the same time? air conditioning extracts the water and it seems like youd be making your AC unit work twice as hard and perhaps could wear it out very quickly. pure water could easily come from an RO unit. ################### From: sander at ig.net (Sander de Haan) Date: Sun Jan 30 12:35:25 2005 Subject: [CP] highland tanks and difficult growing conditions - brainstorm Nice topic Christopher, I've been struggeling with this topic for a while as I like to grow highland nepenthes but I have no garden and no basement, instead I grow them right in my living room whih is always the same temperature and dry. I have however found a solution. Using a meat box used in restaurants (hope that is the right english name) and a peltier cell I can control the temperature and create the night time temperature drop. As I read the temperature and humidity to my linux server I can see stats of the climate and control it automaticly or from anywhere on the web, wich is nice when on vacation. As the hamata and rajah for example are growing well now I assume I must be doing it right :). I have not much experience with Darlingtonia but I know someone that placed them in full sun using a small porable freezer, the ones that run on 12 volt, to keep the earth cool at all times. Sander ################### From: jamesvicari at sbcglobal.net (James Vicari) Date: Sun Jan 30 12:36:33 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: highland tanks and difficult growing conditions - I have been experimenting with growing Darlingtonia under a dripping faucet, dripping tap water about 1 drop every two seconds. I've had it going since August and so far the two plants are growing very well. Each new pitcher has been larger than the one before; something I've never been able to accomplish. I've got a 55 watt compact fluorescent bulb I got from Home Depot directly above them. I'm in Dallas TX and the water is fairly hard. I don't know what the long term effect of that will be, but interestingly there hasn't been any salt build up on the sphagnum/perlite mix. Also the tap water gets warmer here in the summer and I don't know how the plants will do with a whole summer of warmer water. James Vicari ################### From: jim_miller at mindspring.com (Jim Miller) Date: Sun Jan 30 12:44:26 2005 Subject: [CP] Highland tanks and difficult growing conditions Hi Christopher, Here's the easiest way to do it. Build an indoor greenhouse in your garage or screen porch -- anywhere with protection from the hot sun). Install 4-5 fluorescent banks of growlux lamps (with some brighter cool whites added for light levels). Buy a cheap office refrigerator (they usually come with a fake oak grain on the front) and remove the door, then place it inside along with one or two cool mist humidifiers. That's all it takes. This can also be done much easier up north where people have basements (so you don't even need an enclosure). Bob Hanrahan used to kid me about my "cabbage-sized" Mexican Pings, though I also grew Darlingtonia and Nepenthes with ease in my basement in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Another option is to get an Orchidarium, which is a small growth chamber you can put in a corner of your living room or den -- any air conditioned space is fine. This is a great way to go, though Orchidariums are (unfortunately) not cheap. There are ways of growing some of the cool-loving plants in a standard greenhouse and if anyone is interested, contact me offline for details. Best regards, Jim ################### From: flaneps at hotmail.com (Michelle and Trent ) Date: Sun Jan 30 13:50:16 2005 Subject: [CP] S. purpurea "chipola" Hi Darwin, "chipola" is a town in the Florida panhandle. It is not montanae, it's a southern form of S. purpurea, whatever the current name is now. -Trent and Michelle Darwin Thomas wrote: Message: 2 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <29221-41FC0FDC-3891@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Hi all I purchased a plant from Clyde Bramblett several years ago. It was labelled S. purpurea "chipola". It resembles S purpurea "montanae" but does not have the yellow coloring. Does any one know where this plant originated? It has grown well for me and has produced many large traps. Darwin Thomas ################### From: meadow at bealenet.com (meadow@bealenet.com) Date: Sun Jan 30 13:57:55 2005 Subject: [CP] S. purpurea Chipola Hi Darwin: The plant you mention is from the Chipola River in Florida. Today we would call this S. rosea. The Chipola plants are somewhat unique and I believe Bruce Bednar gave them this moniker. Sincerely, Phil Sheridan Meadowview http://www.bealenet.com ################### From: Cokendolpher at aol.com (Cokendolpher@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 30 13:58:01 2005 Subject: [CP] highland tanks and difficult growing conditions - brainstorm In a message dated 1/30/05 1:10:32 PM, cixcell@yahoo.com writes: > what kind of pumps did you use. i was wondering about using a > saltwater aquarium powerhead like a maxijet 1200 powerhead with some > tubes and maybe some sort of filter to prevent it from getting > clogged. they could easily run on a computer battery backup as well > so if they power failed it would keep pumping plus it doesnt use alot > of power so itd last for a pretty nice sized outage. > > I do not recall the brand, but it was a mag drive pump like you would > use in a marine tank; remember though that you will need maybe 4-5 feet of lift to get water from the floor to the top of the growing area. Yes, I used a prefilter. The problem was that the pump just died. It happens. > > > ahh but how do you air condition the greenhouse AND fog at the same > time? air conditioning extracts the water and it seems like youd be > making your AC unit work twice as hard and perhaps could wear it out > very quickly. pure water could easily come from an RO unit. > > > Last summer, I did not even have to air condition the hot side of my greenhouse when running a fogger. The release of the fog cools the air rapidly. On the cool side of my greenhouse I use an evapoative cooler as well as a fogger. Yes, RO is good if you have a large enough unit. Foggers use a lot of water if the air is normally dry (like it is here in western Texas). ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Sun Jan 30 14:23:28 2005 Subject: [CP] highland tanks and difficult growing conditions - brainstorm > Last summer, I did not even have to air condition > the hot side of my > greenhouse when running a fogger. The release of > the fog cools the air rapidly. On > the cool side of my greenhouse I use an evapoative > cooler as well as a > fogger. Yes, RO is good if you have a large enough > unit. Foggers use a lot of > water if the air is normally dry (like it is here in > western Texas). im thinking in terms of a area of high humidity such as florida. im trying to relocate there at the moment and conditions outside in summer are hot and humid which is ideal for growing lowland stuff but not highland stuff. using a fogger in already sky high humidity would just result in rain in your greenhouse and wouldnt lead to any cooling i would imagine. evaporative coolers, swamp coolers right? ive heard they dont work in florida because they just make the air more humid. ################### From: Killerplants at aol.com (Killerplants@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 30 15:45:23 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: S. purpurea "chipola" Hi Darwin, I am going to assume that this is a form of S. purpurea venosa that comes from the Chipola River area of Florida. I am sure somebody else on the list serve knows for sure. I think Bruce Lee Bednar also has a S. leucophylla "Chipola." Cheers, Joe Griffin Lincoln, NE USA In a message dated 1/30/2005 2:02:34 P.M. Central Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: Hi all I purchased a plant from Clyde Bramblett several years ago. It was labelled S. purpurea "chipola". It resembles S purpurea "montanae" but does not have the yellow coloring. Does any one know where this plant originated? It has grown well for me and has produced many large traps. Darwin Thomas ################### From: didgerowe at gotalk.net.au (Didge) Date: Sun Jan 30 15:48:46 2005 Subject: [CP] Use of light emitting diodes There is a discussion underway in the following group about the use of light emitting diodes rather than light bulbs for supplying insolation. This is probably a very innovative idea for those who use artificial light sources. Didge. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Lithops/ A web page for the real living stones. ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sun Jan 30 16:55:00 2005 Subject: [CP] S.purpurea/Drosophyllum I have had Drosophyllum thrive in my conditions. Here in Florida I planted/germinated the seed in 10 inch pots and they have been growing fine ever since. I leave them on my screen poarch which is in full sun and they occasionally get insects. The pots are clay and I used Peter D'Amato's mixture. They get water frum rain and/or water once a week or maybe twice. I sed to water them everyday before they were 6 months old. Despite Peter's warning that they need cool nights I have only taken them in during Hurricanes and frosts. Where could I obtain a S. purpurea ssp/ venos var. montana? I had one but it dissappeared I am not sure where or how but during one of my moves it just vanished. Tre ################### From: pbunch at cox.net (Phil Bunch) Date: Sun Jan 30 18:12:31 2005 Subject: [CP] Use of light emitting diodes Hi Didge. I didn't know you were on this list. Phil -----Original Message----- Of Didge Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 3:46 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com There is a discussion underway in the following group about the use of light emitting diodes rather than light bulbs for supplying insolation. This is probably a very innovative idea for those who use artificial light sources. Didge. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Lithops/ A web page for the real living stones. _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 1/28/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 1/28/2005 ################### From: nepenthes at borneoexotics.com (Borneo Exotics (Pvt) Ltd) Date: Sun Jan 30 20:41:56 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Conference 2006 Maryland David, As far as I know it's to be held in the new and very impressively hi-tec Prague Botanic Gardens. ################### From: fleischi01 at gmx.de (Andreas Fleischmann) Date: Mon Jan 31 07:07:31 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: D.meristocaulis seed germination pattern Hi Fernando and all! I can confirm Ivan's notice that the germination pattern of D.meristocaulis is phanerocotylar! Moreover, Ivan, you are right that not all pygmies seem to hide their cotyledons in the testa. I noticed this way of germination in D.occidentalis, D.microscapa and relatives, but the D.pulchella I did germinate from seed once had clearly visible, non-carnivorous cotyledons (i.e. phanerocotylar germination!). All the best, Andreas -- 10 GB Mailbox, 100 FreeSMS http://www.gmx.net/de/go/topmail +++ GMX - die erste Adresse für Mail, Message, More +++ ################### From: villosa at insightbb.com (Patrick O'Brien) Date: Mon Jan 31 07:10:51 2005 Subject: [CP] highland tanks, etc. ################### From: ken.skau at uc.edu (Ken Skau) Date: Mon Jan 31 07:50:40 2005 Subject: [CP] Radio Program The US radio program "Morning Edition" carried a feature during a recent morning programming about how Venus' Flytraps close. You can hear the broadcast by going to: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4467935 Kind Regards, Ken Skau ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Mon Jan 31 09:53:07 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: more D.meristocaulis seed germination pattern Hi Fernando and all, I don't know if all Australian pygmy Drosera display cryptocotylar germination. But I do know that no sundew of the Americas do. Imagine if D. meristocaulis was cryptocotylar along with all its other pygmy Drosera characteristics. This is a special day. Congratulations again Fernando! Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Mon Jan 31 09:53:56 2005 Subject: [CP] Leaf Pullings Hey Folks, When you get your December issue of CPN and read the article I wrote on Sarracenia "leaf pullings", please contact me if you already knew of this practice and have done it yourself. I'm curious. Please note that the method involves pulling off a leaf, and not using some sort of sharp implement to remove the leaf with a chunk of rhizome attached. Cheers Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: corusc8 at hotmail.com (Joseph Kinyon) Date: Mon Jan 31 10:55:13 2005 Subject: [CP] Wilmington Hi folks, [Joseph Kinyon] After flying in from the San Francisco, CA area, I will be traveling by car from Raleigh, NC to Myrtle Beach, SC for a GIS meeting. My trip will take me through Wilmington and was excited at the opportunity to make a stop. I have never been to this area and was hoping to learn 2 things: 1. Recommendations for seeing Venus Flytraps in the wild. 2. Places to stay in Wilmington for the budget minded. Thanks! Joe ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Mon Jan 31 12:09:12 2005 Subject: [CP] Leaf Pullings HI Barry, I was curious to know why you hadn't noticed this very same method pictured in CPN a few years back. I believe it was the De Groot Nursery in Holland article where there was a photo of a huge flat of S.psittacina which had been propagated from leaf cuttings. I think it's one of the issues with the blue on top? Matt Message: 17 To: Message-ID: <200501311753.j0VHrk9w024966@warsaw.ucdavis.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hey Folks, When you get your December issue of CPN and read the article I wrote on Sarracenia "leaf pullings", please contact me if you already knew of this practice and have done it yourself. I'm curious. Please note that the method involves pulling off a leaf, and not using some sort of sharp implement to remove the leaf with a chunk of rhizome attached. Cheers Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ################### From: CALIFCARN at aol.com (CALIFCARN@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 31 13:35:15 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cooling Highland Tanks ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Mon Jan 31 13:52:49 2005 Subject: [CP] VFT trap closing Peter, The original article on the VFT trap closing can be found at http://fluid.ippt.gov.pl/ictam04/text/sessions/docs/MS2/11581/MS2_11581.pdf CALIFCARN@aol.com wrote: > A few days ago there was an article about the Nature (or was it > Science?) piece on the closure of the flytrap on Yahoo, but I'm not > sure it's still there. I haven't read the original piece but I'm sure > Jan will review it for CPN. From the synopsis of the Yahoo article, > it didn't seem to offer much new, but perhaps the actual paper gets > into the ...shall we say, meat of things. Seeya. Peter D'Amato at > California Carnivores ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Mon Jan 31 16:16:12 2005 Subject: [CP] Wilmington, Highlands in Fl Wilmington is great. You have to go to Carolina Beach State Park. True they do somewhat manicure some Sarracenias but not all or them. They have every Cp in Carolina there. Google it for directions. Do not try to be an idiot and take stuff. Every other person there is a park Ranger or law enforcement person. Just FYI and so I will not get heated messages. Highlands in Florida are easy. Well North East Florida any way. I have heard and grown them in Fort Myers for a few months also. They grow great out under the trees. In half shade. Thats what I do now. Pitchers will come in cycles during cooler spells so not all months will you have pitcher laden plants. Intermediates do well outside also. I have to put lowlants in y "big terrarium" so they will grow with enough humidity and pitcher (Bical.) Tre ################### From: Junglejimie at aol.com (Junglejimie@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 31 21:43:53 2005 Subject: [CP] cp viewing ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 31 22:59:31 2005 Subject: [CP] Good VFT article In a message dated 1/27/2005 12:28:43 AM Pacific Standard Time, stephenwd@sbcglobal.net writes: I found this article on the web on how the VFT works. http://www.livescience.com/othernews/050126_venus_flytrap.html Is any of this new? He seems pretty confident about this, which I find interesting as so many people have been working on this without a complete explanation.or is there one that we all agree on now? Well, it seems a variation on the theme of changing osmotic pressures (cells on the outside of the leaf intake water, making them larger, cells on the inside lose water, making them shrink) that I seem to recall reading about many, many years ago. So something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue. TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: ccp at vaxxine.com (ccp@vaxxine.com) Date: Tue Feb 1 06:58:01 2005 Subject: [CP] Wilmington Joseph, Wilmington is one of my favorite places to visit! Unfortunately, you won't see much in terms of CP this time of year. VFT's won't start waking up until March. I saw them in mid march and they were just starting to put out their spring traps. There are a bunch of places to stay in Wilmington, I've stayed in the Motel 6 and Best Western on Market Street. Both are bookable online and reasonably priced. There are a few publicly accessible places, one is the green swamp on hwy 211. Another is the Carolina Beach State Park. Send me a PM and I can give you specific directions. Carl > Hi folks, > [Joseph Kinyon] > After flying in from the San Francisco, CA area, I will be traveling by car > from Raleigh, NC to Myrtle Beach, SC for a GIS meeting. > > My trip will take me through Wilmington and was excited at the opportunity > to make a stop. > > I have never been to this area and was hoping to learn 2 things: > > 1. Recommendations for seeing Venus Flytraps in the wild. > 2. Places to stay in Wilmington for the budget minded. > > Thanks! > > Joe > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ------[ This message was sent using Vaxxine Webmail ]------ www.vaxxine.com - Niagara's Premier Internet Service Provider ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Tue Feb 1 09:42:37 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: D.meristocaulis seed germination pattern Hi Andreas, That's great you've got seedlings sprouting too. We can both study this together. I am sure I was fooled by the first seedling. The first seedling to sprout started out with the seed standing on end and so as it sprouted it looked as if it were trying to cast off the seed coat and so phanerocotylar. I have four up now and these are developing more normally and clearly cryptocotylar. You should see the same soon. Cheers, Ivan ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Tue Feb 1 12:43:24 2005 Subject: [CP] Leaf pullings Hi Matt, I'll look this old CPN up. This was long before Jan and I assumed editorship---I vaguely recall hearing that CPN ran an article a long time ago about a facility that mass-produced CP, and only afterwards it was discovered (much to the disgust of all) that the facility was only acting as a front for field collected plants. I don't recall if this is the one. But you know, even if the dutch were doing this, I'm still impressed that you ask most modern growers about using leaves to propagate Sarracenia, and they'll say it can't be done. However, there are some growers out there who DO know about this method. It's funny that it's just not better known. I'm glad I have a set of quotes around the "New" in my article's title. Cheers Barry > HI Barry, > I was curious to know why you hadn't noticed this very same > method pictured in CPN a few years back. > I believe it was the De Groot Nursery in Holland article > where there was a photo of a huge flat of S.psittacina which > had been propagated from leaf cuttings. I think it's one of > the issues with the blue on top? > Matt ################### From: ken.skau at uc.edu (Ken Skau) Date: Tue Feb 1 14:04:09 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: CP viewing Junglejim wrote: Can anyone tell me where I might see a large display of carnivorous plants in my area, ie. within say a couple of hundred miles of Toledo Ohio. Thanks Jim A couple of hundred miles south in Cincinnati (tropical Ohio) the Krohn Conservatory has recently expanded its collection of carnivorous plants. I'm not sure if you would call it "large" but it is growing. I think that it is approaching the size of the Missouri Botanical Gardens display. While in Cincinnati you could also visit the Lloyd Library and Museum which is a non-circulating collection of books devoted to botany, pharmacy and horticulture. It contains many books on carnivorous plants by such noted authors as Charles E. Nelson, B. E. Juniper, Adrian Slack, Francis Lloyd, Gordon Cheers, John Waters, Marcel Lecoufle, and the especially beautiful "Illustrations of North American Pitcher Plants" by Mary Vaux Wolcott. Kind Regards, Ken Skau ################### From: o.marthaler at bluewin.ch (o.marthaler@bluewin.ch) Date: Tue Feb 1 14:56:01 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 1 Hi, Here Olivier in Switzerland, Sorry to let you know I still haven't received the Dec. 04 issue of the CPN... Should I get worried or just wait some more time? Anybody in Europe in my case ? Thanks already for answering. Greetings from CH, OL ################### From: slawarre at meijergardens.org (Steve LaWarre) Date: Wed Feb 2 08:26:55 2005 Subject: [CP] Leaf pullings The article that I assume Matt is talking about is in CPN volume 15, Number 1 (March 1986) The article was "Carnivorous Plant Culture in Holland" by Larry Mellichamp. This article does mention s. psittacina being propagated by leaf cuttings, but only with a piece of rhizome attached. "...they are easy to root (s. psittacina) from leaf cuttings if a piece of the rhizome (stem) is attached. Sarracenia psittacina is the easiest to root from cuttings in this way, but others work too." I think Barry's article is a lot more detailed and deals with leaf cuttings without pieces of rhizome. Steve -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 3:43 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Hi Matt, I'll look this old CPN up. This was long before Jan and I assumed editorship---I vaguely recall hearing that CPN ran an article a long time ago about a facility that mass-produced CP, and only afterwards it was discovered (much to the disgust of all) that the facility was only acting as a front for field collected plants. I don't recall if this is the one. But you know, even if the dutch were doing this, I'm still impressed that you ask most modern growers about using leaves to propagate Sarracenia, and they'll say it can't be done. However, there are some growers out there who DO know about this method. It's funny that it's just not better known. I'm glad I have a set of quotes around the "New" in my article's title. Cheers Barry > HI Barry, > I was curious to know why you hadn't noticed this very same > method pictured in CPN a few years back. > I believe it was the De Groot Nursery in Holland article > where there was a photo of a huge flat of S.psittacina which > had been propagated from leaf cuttings. I think it's one of > the issues with the blue on top? > Matt _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: gregharmison at houston.rr.com (Greg Harmison) Date: Wed Feb 2 16:06:13 2005 Subject: [CP] Leaf pullings "The World of Carnivorous Plants" by the Pietropaolo's (1974) makes a brief reference to leaf propagation of Sarracenia. It does not go into detail, more of a passing mention. "In addition to reproduction via the rhizome, Pitcher Plants may be reproduced from their leaves. To effect this, the leaves should be carefully removed from the rhizomes and placed in damp sphagnum or peat moss." Needless to say, Barry's article has much better detail. Greg H. ----- Original Message ----- To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 10:26 AM The article that I assume Matt is talking about is in CPN volume 15, Number 1 (March 1986) The article was "Carnivorous Plant Culture in Holland" by Larry Mellichamp. This article does mention s. psittacina being propagated by leaf cuttings, but only with a piece of rhizome attached. "...they are easy to root (s. psittacina) from leaf cuttings if a piece of the rhizome (stem) is attached. Sarracenia psittacina is the easiest to root from cuttings in this way, but others work too." I think Barry's article is a lot more detailed and deals with leaf cuttings without pieces of rhizome. Steve -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 3:43 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Hi Matt, I'll look this old CPN up. This was long before Jan and I assumed editorship---I vaguely recall hearing that CPN ran an article a long time ago about a facility that mass-produced CP, and only afterwards it was discovered (much to the disgust of all) that the facility was only acting as a front for field collected plants. I don't recall if this is the one. But you know, even if the dutch were doing this, I'm still impressed that you ask most modern growers about using leaves to propagate Sarracenia, and they'll say it can't be done. However, there are some growers out there who DO know about this method. It's funny that it's just not better known. I'm glad I have a set of quotes around the "New" in my article's title. Cheers Barry > HI Barry, > I was curious to know why you hadn't noticed this very same > method pictured in CPN a few years back. > I believe it was the De Groot Nursery in Holland article > where there was a photo of a huge flat of S.psittacina which > had been propagated from leaf cuttings. I think it's one of > the issues with the blue on top? > Matt _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: Cokendolpher at aol.com (Cokendolpher@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 2 16:13:33 2005 Subject: [CP] Leaf pullings In a message dated 2/2/05 6:07:27 PM, gregharmison@houston.rr.com writes: ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Wed Feb 2 17:59:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Leaf pullings=stem-leaf cuttings Dear Barry, I have tried the "leaf cutting" method several times, but never had anything but roots develop. I think the key here is that these are not "leaf cuttings" that this article is describing, (which do not work!), but are more accurately referred to as "stem-leaf cuttings" which are a different beast all together. They might not seem very different at first glance, but to say both techniques are both "leaf cuttings" would be like saying skin grafts and bone grafts are about the same--which just isn't accurate. The stems of _S. purpurea, S. psittacina_ and _S. rosea_ are different from the other species' stems. They are thinner much less woody, especially so in _S. psittacina_, which happens to be the easiest for this method. The way the plant is built makes it easy to make "stem-leaf cuttings", without using a knife. I suspect you will probably get plants faster if you can pull off a couple of leaves and keep them attached to each other as one cutting. This method ("stem-leaf cutting") also works on petiolaris sundews very well, whereas most "leaf cuttings" do not strike regardless of your technique. However, pulling the leaves will not work on these guys, as the plants are built differently. Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of Barry Rice Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 3:43 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Hi Matt, I'll look this old CPN up. This was long before Jan and I assumed editorship---I vaguely recall hearing that CPN ran an article a long time ago about a facility that mass-produced CP, and only afterwards it was discovered (much to the disgust of all) that the facility was only acting as a front for field collected plants. I don't recall if this is the one. But you know, even if the Dutch were doing this, I'm still impressed that you ask most modern growers about using leaves to propagate Sarracenia, and they'll say it can't be done. However, there are some growers out there who DO know about this method. It's funny that it's just not better known. I'm glad I have a set of quotes around the "New" in my article's title. Cheers Barry ################### From: peteluba at prodigy.net (Glenn Petersen) Date: Thu Feb 3 08:36:22 2005 Subject: [CP] CP collections to visit Jim, I'm not sure about the distance but there two spots here in Michigan you could vivist. One is Mathei Botanical Gardens in Ann Arbor, MI. They have a couple of large neps and a small bog with some sundes, flytraps and Sarracenis. I saved the best for last. Meijer Gadens in Grand Rapids, MI. They have a great display of Neps, dews, .... They also have very nice indoor and outdoor gardens as well. It is a very well maintained display with beautiful plants. Some of the Neps are huge. Great place to visit. While in Michigan you could visit some native bogs with real live wild plants. I believe there is a bog with a boardwalk near there but I have not visited it yet. If you google bogs in MI you should get some hits for parks that have them. Enjoy your travels. ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Thu Feb 3 09:02:56 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Leaf pullings Hi Matt, I looked up the article, and as Steve L pointed out, this article cites that the Sarracenia psittacina propagation was being done by using a small piece of the rhizome attached. This is an intrusive method that is quite different from what I talked about in my article. As you said, in your own inimitable idiom, I'm "curious to know why you hadn't noticed this"? (You crack me up!) Barry > > > HI Barry, > > I was curious to know why you hadn't noticed this very same method > > pictured in CPN a few years back. > > I believe it was the De Groot Nursery in Holland article > where there > > was a photo of a huge flat of S.psittacina which had been > propagated > > from leaf cuttings. I think it's one of the issues with > the blue on > > top? > > Matt Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Thu Feb 3 12:19:09 2005 Subject: [CP] Leaf pullings making roots only Hi Dave! Only getting roots? I've found that if I get roots, leaf formation is inevitable. However, the "inevitable" part is only if the plants are kept warm and in baggies. Presumably the 100% humidity sustains the leaves with minimal stress. Meanwhile, if I do the leaf pullings in a humid (but not 100% humidity) terrarium, I've gotten much lower success---roots, but no leaf formation. Is this what is happening with you? Perhaps a baggie protocol might help? Concerning your theory that the leaf pullings are most effective for S. psittacina and S. purpurea because of some thinner epidermis, perhaps the leaf pulling method would work for other species more readily if juvenile plants are used? I'm sorry to say that I can't quite figure out what you're saying about the "leaf cutting" vs. "stem-leaf cutting" stuff. Could you clarify? Which papers are proponents for which techniques? Sorry about my opacity on this. Barry > > I have tried the "leaf cutting" method several times, > but never had > anything but roots develop. I think the key here is that > these are not > "leaf cuttings" that this article is describing, (which do > not work!), but > are more accurately referred to as "stem-leaf cuttings" which are a > different beast all together. They might not seem very > different at first > glance, but to say both techniques are both "leaf cuttings" > would be like > saying skin grafts and bone grafts are about the same--which > just isn't > accurate. > The stems of _S. purpurea, S. psittacina_ and _S. rosea_ are > different from the other species' stems. They are thinner > much less woody, > especially so in _S. psittacina_, which happens to be the > easiest for this > method. The way the plant is built makes it easy to make "stem-leaf > cuttings", without using a knife. I suspect you will > probably get plants > faster if you can pull off a couple of leaves and keep them > attached to each > other as one cutting. ################### From: o.marthaler at bluewin.ch (o.marthaler@bluewin.ch) Date: Thu Feb 3 13:31:04 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 2 Hello, What a coincidence: just a few hours after sending my "worried email", the CPN of December '04 was in my mailbox! As always, very appealing indeed. Congrats on my pal Joe, once again on his tepuis! Looking forward to having more time to read the rest of this issue! And thanks you all who manage to write, publish and broadcast the interest for CP's via ICPS and its journal! I'll mention its existence to the audience who will attend my two lectures on CP's this spring! Greetings from snowy CH, Olivier >------------------------------ > > >Hi, > >Here Olivier in Switzerland, > >Sorry to let you know I still haven't received the Dec. 04 issue of the CPN... >Should I get worried or just wait some more time? Anybody in Europe in my >case ? > >Thanks already for answering. > >Greetings from CH, > >OL > ################### From: o.marthaler at bluewin.ch (o.marthaler@bluewin.ch) Date: Thu Feb 3 13:41:55 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 3 Hi everybody, Have you ever seen drosera regia seeds germinating on humid peat during stratification, with temps ranging between 2?C and 10?C ? Top quality from Doug & Vivi Rowland anyway! OL ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Thu Feb 3 16:38:18 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: more D.meristocaulis seed germination pattern Hello to all again! Congrats to Andreas Fleischmann, we now have 3 people who've germinated D.meristocaulis seed in cultivation!!! Apparently all three have been successful due to warmer conditions. As Dave Evans said, although D.meristocaulis is a highland plant, the soil often gets very hot during the day in these habitats. So it is not surprising that it would like warmth as opposed to cold. I would be very surprised if D.meristocaulis needed a cold stratification -- whereas a dry stratification would make much more sense! Andreas wrote: "I can confirm Ivan's notice that the germination pattern of D.meristocaulis is phanerocotylar! Moreover, Ivan, you are right that not all pygmies seem to hide their cotyledons in the testa. I noticed this way of germination in D.occidentalis, D.microscapa and relatives, but the D.pulchella I did germinate from seed once had clearly visible, non-carnivorous cotyledons (i.e. phanerocotylar germination!)." But then Ivan wrote: "That's great you've got seedlings sprouting too. We can both study this together. I am sure I was fooled by the first seedling. The first seedling to sprout started out with the seed standing on end and so as it sprouted it looked as if it were trying to cast off the seed coat and so phanerocotylar. I have four up now and these are developing more normally and clearly cryptocotylar. You should see the same soon." As for Darren (the 3rd guy who germinate them), he wrote: "Seed was initiated on 28-12-04 invitro. So far only about 20% germination. one plant is already producing its 2nd-3rd true leaf now. seedlings are very small and dont look like they have any cotyledons, and all parts are very red." So we seem to have a disagreement on whether D.meristocaulis is crypto or phanerocotylar... or both!! Could any of you take pictures of the seeds for all of us to see??? Keep the news coming guys! Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia Sao Paulo, Brazil ################### From: stovehouse at earthlink.net (Michael Hunt) Date: Thu Feb 3 17:04:54 2005 Subject: [CP] Leaf pullings ROFLMAO.... "leaf pullings" ........good one is that like "toaster leavings" the main diet of Al Bundy???? To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" Message-ID: <001601c50984$23b82190$6501a8c0@toshibauser> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original "The World of Carnivorous Plants" by the Pietropaolo's (1974) makes a brief reference to leaf propagation of Sarracenia. It does not go into detail, more of a passing mention. "In addition to reproduction via the rhizome, Pitcher Plants may be reproduced from their leaves. To effect this, the leaves should be carefully removed from the rhizomes and placed in damp sphagnum or peat moss." ################### From: Flshntrsh3 at aol.com (Flshntrsh3@aol.com) Date: Thu Feb 3 19:21:19 2005 Subject: [CP] New question ################### From: stephenwd at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Davis) Date: Thu Feb 3 22:21:55 2005 Subject: [CP] New question It seems like a huge proportion of them can. Of the ones I grow, I've only failed with D. glabribes, which is a big bummer as I can't find any more seeds now that I've sold, given away, or killed all of mine! Stephen Davis stephenwd@sbcglobal.net www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com -----Original Message----- Of Flshntrsh3@aol.com Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 7:21 PM To: Cp-request@omnisterra.com; Cp@omnisterra.com what species of drosera can be reproduced by leaf cuttings? _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: slawarre at meijergardens.org (Steve LaWarre) Date: Fri Feb 4 06:52:56 2005 Subject: [CP] CP collections to visit Thanks for the kind words Glenn! Jim, if you do decide to visit Frederik Meijer Gardens, please call or email me before you come. I always enjoy showing fellow CPers the collections in our production areas. I could also give you directions to that boardwalk Glenn mentions below, it is well worth a visit if you are in this area. Steve Steven R LaWarre Manager of Indoor Horticulture Frederik Meijer Gardens & Sculpture Park 1000 E Beltline NE Grand Rapids MI 49525 (616)975-3175 -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 11:36 AM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Jim, I'm not sure about the distance but there two spots here in Michigan you could vivist. One is Mathei Botanical Gardens in Ann Arbor, MI. They have a couple of large neps and a small bog with some sundes, flytraps and Sarracenis. I saved the best for last. Meijer Gadens in Grand Rapids, MI. They have a great display of Neps, dews, .... They also have very nice indoor and outdoor gardens as well. It is a very well maintained display with beautiful plants. Some of the Neps are huge. Great place to visit. While in Michigan you could visit some native bogs with real live wild plants. I believe there is a bog with a boardwalk near there but I have not visited it yet. If you google bogs in MI you should get some hits for parks that have them. Enjoy your travels. Glenn _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: CANDILUBBEN at peoplepc.com (chris lubben) Date: Fri Feb 4 11:03:05 2005 Subject: [CP] New Guy Greetings all, it looks like I will have plenty of archives to go through to catch up. Got started in CP's a few years ago with the Savage Garden and then joined the ICPS in 2001. Have Orn. Hort. degree from U of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. Lot's of fun in hort but can't pay all the bills so now it is just for hobby. Recently came across this group while researching TC info and couldn't resist. I'd like to start my own TC lab on the small side and I'm sure CP's would have their own corner just like in my basement now. Live in East central Illinois so winters are awfully hard on my CP's in fact I had to start over last year. Always fun and games. ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Fri Feb 4 11:47:47 2005 Subject: [CP] New Guy In a message dated 2/4/2005 11:04:27 AM Pacific Standard Time, CANDILUBBEN@peoplepc.com writes: Greetings all, it looks like I will have plenty of archives to go through to catch up. Got started in CP's a few years ago with the Savage Garden and then joined the ICPS in 2001. Have Orn. Hort. degree from U of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. Lot's of fun in hort but can't pay all the bills so now it is just for hobby. Recently came across this group while researching TC info and couldn't resist. I'd like to start my own TC lab on the small side and I'm sure CP's would have their own corner just like in my basement now. Live in East central Illinois so winters are awfully hard on my CP's in fact I had to start over last year. Always fun and games. Ah, yes, I remember well my days at the U of I. Trying to maintain a CP collection amidst the many house changes that a student is apt to go through proved quite the challenge. I also had a devil of a time trying to overwinter my CPs outside in that climate. Lost many a Sarracenia and VFT in that fashion. The Drosera usually made it through via seeds. Knew better than to try and keep any of my few Nepenthes outdoors. TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Fri Feb 4 13:07:53 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: more D.meristocaulis seed germination pattern Congratulations to Belinda from Sydney, Australia!!! Belinda writes: >It Seems as if my Meristocaulis seeds have also germinated . >I used a double greenhouse type of setup and with Sydney Australia's wild recent weather may have triggered germination ( red hot then cold etc). >The seeds were sown on the 17/1/05 and definite germination i noticed today 4/2/05. >They appear to be Phanerocotylar in my opinion . >Fingers crossed they continue to develop . She's now the 4th person to germinate D.meristocaulis!!! And fast too, only 18 days!! So far Australia leads the race! Australia 2, rest of the world 2!! :):) >My seeds where sown on a potting medium of 1 part coarsesand , 2 parts spaghnam peat and 1 part coarse perlite . >The pot was then placed in a water tray abt 1inch deep on second shelf of small portable green house with a second water tray directly beneath on >bottom shelf .i also used the top of a 1.5lt coke bottle on pot itself to create extra humidity.The green house gets abt 70% indirect sun all day . >I think the rapid wheather changes in Sydney recently could have been the key to germination. Sounds like she may have hit on an interesting tip for quick germination too... Best of luck, Fernando Rivadavia P.S. Hope to be able to add more people to this list when I return from the Carnaval holliday next Thursday! ;) I might even see a few CPs at the beach... ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Fri Feb 4 13:28:31 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: more D.meristocaulis seed germination pattern Perhaps that is because it is summer in Australia, or perhaps it is because Australia is upside down. :-) (-: Fernando Rivadavia wrote: > Congratulations to Belinda from Sydney, Australia!!! > > She's now the 4th person to germinate D.meristocaulis!!! And fast too, only > 18 days!! So far Australia leads the race! Australia 2, rest of the world > 2!! :):) ################### From: AppleCakeTeaRoom at aol.com (AppleCakeTeaRoom@aol.com) Date: Fri Feb 4 21:55:37 2005 Subject: [CP] North Texas Graduate Symposium Just wanted to let everyone know tomorrow my research partner and I will be presenting our research on the microscopic structures of carnivorous plant traps, especially D. muscipula, as well as work on various CP seeds. Scanning Electron Microscope pictures are the basis to studying the structures. It will be at the University of North Texas in Denton, Texas for the Graduate research day. Posters will be up for display from 9am-5pm, with poster presentations through out the day. The interesting thing is, my research partner is also my sister! :D We'll let you know how things go. ################### From: ThomBroGar at aol.com (ThomBroGar@aol.com) Date: Sat Feb 5 05:08:53 2005 Subject: [CP] Leaf 'cuttings' vs leaf /stem 'cuttings' Barry, Could the difference in these two methods not also be the fact that with a leaf/stem cutting you are getting a piece of the outer rhizome layer that has a dormant bud? Is it not true for Sarracenias like many other plants that at the base if each leaf axis there is a dormant bud. I believe this is the theory when a rhizome cutting is taken. Nature has build these 'back up' buds in case the terminal bud is damaged and by removing the terminal bud and removing apical dominance the signal goes out for the lateral buds to start growing. Just a thought. ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Sat Feb 5 11:58:02 2005 Subject: [CP] Leaf 'cuttings' vs leaf /stem 'cuttings' Dear Brooks and Barry, Yeah, this is one point I was attempting to make in my last email. While I doubt you will detach a dormant bud by using the "Leaf pulling method", I think you do end up with a small piece of stem. The little bits of stem tissue can and do have clumps of undifferentiated cells which can turn into any type of cell in the right conditions. I suppose you can think of these as tiny buds, but I think of a bud as a more advanced structure already assigning cells to be either stem tissue or leaf tissue. As the stem tissue of _Sarracenia_ is constantly producing new roots on the bottom as it grows forward, the bottom areas of little bits of stem on (or near?) the end of the leaf have no trouble turning into roots after recovering from the operation. Then the bud has to wait until it can convince the cells at it's top (or side?) that they are supposed to be an apical meristem growing leaves, which I guess takes a lot more organization or has a smaller window of opportunity. Brooks, I believe you are correct, it does appear that _Sarracenia_ can grow from back up buds, and I also think it has the ability to produce new buds from old stem, as does _Darlingtonia_, not sure about _Heliamphora_. In _Sarraceniaceae_ there appears to be very little apical dominance as they are constantly branching indicating the buds are not being held dormant. This statement sounds more like a description of _Nepenthes_ growing habit: 'Nature has build these buds in case the terminal bud is damaged and by removing the terminal bud and it's apical dominance, the lack of signal allows for the lateral buds to start growing.' I'm not sure if this applies to plants that grow horizontally as strongly as it does plants which grow vertically... Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of ThomBroGar@aol.com Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 8:09 AM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Barry, Could the difference in these two methods not also be the fact that with a leaf/stem cutting you are getting a piece of the outer rhizome layer that has a dormant bud? Is it not true for Sarracenias like many other plants that at the base if each leaf axis there is a dormant bud. I believe this is the theory when a rhizome cutting is taken. Nature has build these 'back up' buds in case the terminal bud is damaged and by removing the terminal bud and removing apical dominance the signal goes out for the lateral buds to start growing. Just a thought. Brooks Garcia, Atlanta ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Sat Feb 5 13:38:24 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: more D.meristocaulis seed germination pattern EHEM. Fernando, I already told you I got meristocaulis germination too, so I think that makes *me* the fourth person. :) I'm still waiting for hirticalyx though. Matt -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sat Feb 5 14:24:03 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: leaf pullings/cuttings So your trying to say the eqivilent to Sarracenia Stem-cells are being pulled off with the leaf and they cause the new plant to develop. Tre ################### From: AppleCakeTeaRoom at aol.com (AppleCakeTeaRoom@aol.com) Date: Sat Feb 5 18:47:19 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: North Texas Graduate Symposium Well the Symposium went very well with about 200 people in attendance from all walks of biological sciences. People seemed quite interested in the SEM pictures of the CP seed coats and the VFT mutant SEMs. Anywho the big news is that we won the Best Undergraduate Poster, and it came with a nice little check too. You all know where that money's going to go right? Yup, more CPs for the bog! :-) ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Sun Feb 6 10:59:50 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: leaf pullings/cuttings Dear Tre, In a word, yes. Dave E. -----Original Message----- Of Tre Bond Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 5:24 PM So you're trying to say the eqivilent to Sarracenia Stem-cells are being pulled off with the leaf and they cause the new plant to develop. Tre ################### From: Junglejimie at aol.com (Junglejimie@aol.com) Date: Mon Feb 7 02:29:02 2005 Subject: [CP] Traveling to Honduras ################### From: Junglejimie at aol.com (Junglejimie@aol.com) Date: Mon Feb 7 02:32:11 2005 Subject: [CP] Nepenthes cuttings ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Mon Feb 7 12:42:08 2005 Subject: [CP] D. meristocaulis germination photo Hi all, Ed Read has photographed my seedlings of D. meristocaulis. You can view one on the Los Angeles CP Society webpage at: http://www.geocities.com/lacps//Dmeristocaulis.html I sent a photo to Fernando, but no reply yet. He must be living it up at Carnival at the present. When he returns I hope he will writeup his intriguing ideas on the plant. Congratulations to all those who have germinated the seed of this species. Mine are starting off extraordinarily slow, but look quite healthy. With luck, maybe later this year, the pants will be mature and ready for my next stage experiment. Many of you know what this will entail:-) Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Tue Feb 8 11:01:49 2005 Subject: [CP] D.meristocaulis mucho germination :))) Hi all, I'm happy to say that more D.meristocaulis seeds are sprouting - it looks like I've got a good crop. I'm VERY happy about this! The roraimae and G.repens seed I offered have germinated as well. The only one I haven't germinated yet is hirticalyx, but I'm patiently waiting. If anyone still wants seed, email your requests as I hope to divide the rest up shortly. Thanks, Matt -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ################### From: cplistserv at carnivorousplant.com (Joseph Clemens) Date: Tue Feb 8 18:07:09 2005 Subject: [CP] D.meristocaulis mucho germination :))) Matt, Could you please refresh my recollection, what do you have left and how much is it. Good growing, Joseph ----- Original Message ----- To: "Sundew Club" Cc: "cp list" Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 12:00 PM > Hi all, > I'm happy to say that more D.meristocaulis seeds are sprouting - it looks > like I've got a good crop. I'm VERY happy about this! The roraimae and > G.repens seed I offered have germinated as well. The only one I haven't > germinated yet is hirticalyx, but I'm patiently waiting. If anyone still > wants seed, email your requests as I hope to divide the rest up shortly. > Thanks, > Matt > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 > DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA > I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, > South America or other tropical / subtropical places. > Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Tue Feb 8 18:15:53 2005 Subject: [CP] Rot spoted on bladderwort I noticed part of the main stem had rotted on my Utricularia macrorhiza . I cut off the rotted parts,and did change the water(distilled) in the container. What you think caused the rot? Wolf ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Tue Feb 8 19:14:02 2005 Subject: [CP] Rot spoted on bladderwort It got old? i find that my macrorhiza will form turions about three times a year and the stems die away. And even while growing, the old part of the stem naturally rots away as the new end continues producing growth. In a message dated 2/8/2005 6:15:48 PM Pacific Standard Time, harryq1972@hotmail.com writes: I noticed part of the main stem had rotted on my Utricularia macrorhiza . I cut off the rotted parts,and did change the water(distilled) in the container. What you think caused the rot? Wolf TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: mdbishoff at comcast.net (Mike Bishoff) Date: Tue Feb 8 22:16:41 2005 Subject: [CP] How to Use Orthene? Hi All - I have some aphids on semi-dormant Drosera capensis and VFTs, but too many to simply pick off with tweezers. I read in D'Amato that Orthene was a good remedy to get rid of the aphids, but was unclear on how best to use it. I didn't want to simply follow the directions on the can without consulting the list group first. The Orthene is 75S wettable powder and comes in a shaker can. Do I simply sprinkle the Orthene on the plants sparingly? Only on the soil? Both soil and leaves? Your experience and wisdom appreciated. ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Tue Feb 8 23:20:57 2005 Subject: [CP] Growing U humboldtii? / Cephalotus medium Hi friends, A friend just sent me U.humboldtii and Cephalotus (thanks!!) and I wanted to know the best way to grow the Utric and the preferred medium for Ceph. Anyone? I seem to recall having better luck with peat/perlite than sphag in the past when growing Ceph. Or was it the other way around? Thanks! Matt -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Wed Feb 9 08:35:00 2005 Subject: [CP] How to Use Orthene? You use 2 tbs and put in one gallon of distilled water. Then pur the incesticide in a spray bottle,and spray on the plants. The plants will absorb the stuff,so would be no need to spray it for a while. Wolf ----Original Message Follows---- Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group To: Hi All - I have some aphids on semi-dormant Drosera capensis and VFTs, but too many to simply pick off with tweezers. I read in D'Amato that Orthene was a good remedy to get rid of the aphids, but was unclear on how best to use it. I didn't want to simply follow the directions on the can without consulting the list group first. The Orthene is 75S wettable powder and comes in a shaker can. Do I simply sprinkle the Orthene on the plants sparingly? Only on the soil? Both soil and leaves? Your experience and wisdom appreciated. Mike - Seattle, WA _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Wed Feb 9 08:41:01 2005 Subject: [CP] receiving individual emails instead of digest? / Listserv- Can someone please tell me how I can set the CP listserv to deliver individual emails instead of a digest. Also, I noticed the web page I used to visit to see messages via the web isn't working now. Could someone please email me the correct URL? Thanks, Matt -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Wed Feb 9 08:44:03 2005 Subject: [CP] Rot spoted on bladderwort Thanks HmrTheHrmt@aol.com! I got worry there for a while since I just bought this plant like last month from Meadowview. I didn't know what I was doing wrong? They came out of dormancy about a day after I put them by window. Then by spring they all go outdoors in big containers like small ponds. Wolf ----Original Message Follows---- Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group To: Cp@omnisterra.com It got old? i find that my macrorhiza will form turions about three times a year and the stems die away. And even while growing, the old part of the stem naturally rots away as the new end continues producing growth. In a message dated 2/8/2005 6:15:48 PM Pacific Standard Time, harryq1972@hotmail.com writes: I noticed part of the main stem had rotted on my Utricularia macrorhiza . I cut off the rotted parts,and did change the water(distilled) in the container. What you think caused the rot? Wolf TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 9 11:44:56 2005 Subject: [CP] Rot spoted on bladderwort I still haven't determined what factors this plant uses for dormancy, because as I mentioned, I've had it go into a dormant turion state three times over the course of one year! I'm thinking the shaded location it is in may be triggering some sort of photo-dormancy activity, but my australa which goes dormant in winter does fine in this location. Fortunately, it forms HUGE turions, so I'm always assured that it is doing well. In a message dated 2/9/2005 8:43:43 AM Pacific Standard Time, harryq1972@hotmail.com writes: Thanks HmrTheHrmt@aol.com! I got worry there for a while since I just bought this plant like last month from Meadowview. I didn't know what I was doing wrong? They came out of dormancy about a day after I put them by window. Then by spring they all go outdoors in big containers like small ponds. Wolf TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Wed Feb 9 13:03:14 2005 Subject: [CP] Ceph, U humb. For cephs one part sphagnum peat to one part perlite to one part sand works well for me. Wow you were lucking in finding that U. humb. I have been looking. Recently one ebay one sold for something like $73. ################### From: ClaraVoiAunt at aol.com (ClaraVoiAunt@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 9 18:35:17 2005 Subject: [CP] RE:Use of orthene Mike, In case you only have a few plants,That would break down to about 3/4 of a tsp orthene to 8 oz. of pure H2o, . Orthene is mainly a systemic pesticide but should kill the live pest on contact and as Herman says, remain effective for 2-3 months. Orthene should only be used on ornamental plants. keep 'em plants growin' Lois In a message dated 2/9/2005 12:03:03 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: You use 2 tbs and put in one gallon of distilled water. ################### From: mdbishoff at comcast.net (Mike Bishoff) Date: Wed Feb 9 18:36:44 2005 Subject: [CP] How to Use Orthene? Excellent! I've found little to no discussion on the use of Orthene on the CP list, so I'll give this a shot per Wolf's recommendation and let everyone know the results and impact on my CPs and the aphids. Mike -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 8:33 AM To: Cp@omnisterra.com You use 2 tbs and put in one gallon of distilled water. Then pur the incesticide in a spray bottle,and spray on the plants. The plants will absorb the stuff,so would be no need to spray it for a while. Wolf ----Original Message Follows---- Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group To: Hi All - I have some aphids on semi-dormant Drosera capensis and VFTs, but too many to simply pick off with tweezers. I read in D'Amato that Orthene was a good remedy to get rid of the aphids, but was unclear on how best to use it. I didn't want to simply follow the directions on the can without consulting the list group first. The Orthene is 75S wettable powder and comes in a shaker can. Do I simply sprinkle the Orthene on the plants sparingly? Only on the soil? Both soil and leaves? Your experience and wisdom appreciated. Mike - Seattle, WA _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: hcl at copper.net (hcl@copper.net) Date: Wed Feb 9 23:48:49 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 9 The preferred medium for the Ceph I'm growing is equal parts silica sand, peat, and perlite. happy growing, Homer > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 02:19:27 -0500 > From: "Sundew" > Subject: [CP] Growing U humboldtii? / Cephalotus medium > To: "cp list" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi friends, > A friend just sent me U.humboldtii and Cephalotus (thanks!!) and I wanted to > know the best way to grow the Utric and the preferred medium for Ceph. > Anyone? I seem to recall having better luck with peat/perlite than sphag in > the past when growing Ceph. Or was it the other way around? > Thanks! > Matt > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-=-= > SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 > DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA > I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, > South America or other tropical / subtropical places. > Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-=-= -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.6 - Release Date: 2/7/2005 ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Thu Feb 10 08:45:59 2005 Subject: [CP] How to Use Orthene? Mike,if you only have few plants then just use a 1/2 gallon jug w/distillwater and 1 tbs of Orthene. That would last you a while. For me,I have a gallon on hand,but I sometimes spray my native honeysuckles with it too. Not much. My pitcherplants was only attacted once past late summer by scales,so only had to use insecticide once on them. So I have all this insecticide on hand just incase I need it. Same with fungicide. Wolf ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Thu Feb 10 14:09:18 2005 Subject: [CP] How to Use Orthene? Dear Wolf, Check your bottles' instructions. There should be a length of time mentioned for how long you can keep the diluted mixture. In New Jersey we don't have Orthene anymore, but something called "Systemic Insect Control, formerly known as Isotox", which contains Orthene. Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of Harry Q Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 11:43 AM Mike, if you only have few plants then just use a 1/2 gallon jug w/distill water and 1 tbs of Orthene. That would last you a while. For me, I have a gallon on hand, but I sometimes spray my native honeysuckles with it too. Not much. My pitcher plants was only attacked once past late summer by scales, so only had to use insecticide once on them. So I have all this insecticide on hand just incase I need it. Same with fungicide. Wolf ################### From: it_290 at hotmail.com (mike wilder) Date: Thu Feb 10 18:01:20 2005 Subject: [CP] seeking professor chiaki shibata hello, does anyone out there have an email address for professor chiaki shibata? i would very much like to contact her regarding the film she showed at the tokyo conference. please email me off list if you prefer. thanks very much in advance-- mike wilder www.geocities.com/pingenstein ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Thu Feb 10 19:16:19 2005 Subject: [CP] How to Use Orthene? It don't say much on instructions,mainly how to use on fire ants. But I can always use freash gallon. I have plenty of Orthene to use,which I don't use much of it. Wolf ----Original Message Follows---- Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" Dear Wolf, Check your bottles' instructions. There should be a length of time mentioned for how long you can keep the diluted mixture. In New Jersey we don't have Orthene anymore, but something called "Systemic Insect Control, formerly known as Isotox", which contains Orthene. Dave Evans ################### From: bill.weaver at hp.com (Weaver, Bill) Date: Fri Feb 11 00:27:36 2005 Subject: [CP] Orthene and Aphids A little note of caution on killing aphids. First, most of the time you can just use your spray bottle set to a stream and blow the little perishers off your plants with a little water. There are several formulas that have been discussed on this forum that can be used to make this more effective. If you want a much more long lasting effect, Orthene 75S works really well. However, the dosage should be 1-2 teaspoons (tsp) not tablespoons (tbs) per gallon. (I usually use a spreader/sticker (basically a couple drops of soap) when I spray, but the soap is really rough on drosera) On aphids, one application will do. For anything tougher like scale, two applications spaced a week to 10 days apart is best. And finally, only mix up what you plan to use today. Depending on your water, the effectiveness of your pesticide actually starts to diminish as soon as you mix it with water. In a week you may just be spraying with dirty water Bill ################### From: westaustralia at libero.it (Cristiano Perrucci) Date: Fri Feb 11 01:38:38 2005 Subject: [CP] Clay Vs. Peat Dear all, has anybody tried to use clay soil in Petiolaris Group droseras cultivation? A few months ago, I put some plants in a mix of 70% silixca sand ad 30% clay with fair results. D.paradoxa, D.broomesis and D.caduca seems to enjoy that soil type. That clay is slightly acid with pH~6.5, with a little trace of carbonates. More experiences to share? Cheers, Cristiano Perrucci, Genoa -Italy- ____________________________________________________________ 6X velocizzare la tua navigazione a 56k? 6X Web Accelerator di Libero! Scaricalo su INTERNET GRATIS 6X http://www.libero.it ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Fri Feb 11 17:10:18 2005 Subject: [CP] bog garden Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I would get/make a large bog garden inexpensivly. The sphagnum and sand costs are no bad but containers are not large enough or cost about a hundred dollars. Any help would be appreciated ################### From: mike at mjv.com (Michael Vanecek) Date: Fri Feb 11 17:17:19 2005 Subject: [CP] bog garden Rubber Pond-liner would be a solution. Just be careful with tools and impliments in the bog, as well as keep deer from jumping in... Think of the bog as a regular pond that just so happens to be filled up with peat. Cheers, Mike -- http://www.mjv.com/ Tre Bond wrote: > Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I would get/make a large > bog garden inexpensivly. The sphagnum and sand costs are no bad but > containers are not large enough or cost about a hundred dollars. Any > help would be appreciated ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Fri Feb 11 17:39:56 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: more D.meristocaulis seed germination pattern Hello to all! Back from carnaval on the beach and happy to say I've heard from 3 more lucky CPers who've germinated D.meristocaulis!!! (Yes, including you Matt!) ;-) Most people have so far reported cryptocotylar germination (cotyledons remaining inside the seed coat), but some have also reported phanerocotylar germination (cotyledons emerging from the seed coat). At least one person has confirmed that the phanerocotylar seedlings observed are apparently stray seed contaminating the D.meristocaulis pot. So the trend so far seems to point to cryptocotylar.... This would be the first New World Drosera to be cryptocotylar!!! Ed & Ivan, thanks for the pic of D.meristocaulis seedling, please show us more!! It would be great to document all the stages in life of this species up to maturity. Congrats to all!! Fernando Rivadavia ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Fri Feb 11 19:23:59 2005 Subject: [CP] bog garden Try pond liner? Its made of rubber,and is cheaper and last long time. You can buy size for 6ftx4ft for like $60-$70? Harry ----Original Message Follows---- Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group To: Cp@omnisterra.com Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I would get/make a large bog garden inexpensivly. The sphagnum and sand costs are no bad but containers are not large enough or cost about a hundred dollars. Any help would be appreciated --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Fri Feb 11 19:33:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Here's What I Trying Grow From Seeds Well,I just took out the pots out of frig and placed by window. Even though I didn't need to put in frig,but did it because I don't know how old the seeds were when I bought them? But now see they will germinate for me since I nevered grew cps from seeds before. Don't worry,I asked experts before I placed pots in frig,and was told to do it if they might not be freash off the pods. Trying Grow From Seeds: Bladderworts Horned Bladderwort Utricularia carnuta-FL Southern Bladderwort Utricularia juncea-FL Butterworts Violet Butterwort Pinguicula caerulea-FL Yellow Butterwort Pinguicula lutea-FL Tiny Butterwort Pinguicula pumila-FL Flytrap Venus Flytrap Dionaea muscipala var. heterophlla-NC Sundews Round-leaved Sundew Drosera rotundifolia-NJ Pink Sundew Drosera capillaris var. capillaris- SC Wollf ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Fri Feb 11 20:54:01 2005 Subject: [CP] Clay Vs. Peat Dear Cristiano, Petiolaris _Drosera_ can be found growing in clayish soil (laterite) so I think you have a very good idea here. Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of Cristiano Perrucci Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 4:36 AM To: Cp Dear all, has anybody tried to use clay soil in Petiolaris Group Drosera cultivation? A few months ago, I put some plants in a mix of 70% silica sand ad 30% clay with fair results. D.paradoxa, D.broomensis and D.caduca seems to enjoy that soil type. That clay is slightly acid with pH~6.5, with a little trace of carbonates. Cheers, Cristiano Perrucci, Genoa -Italy- ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Fri Feb 11 21:16:08 2005 Subject: [CP] Trying from seeds Here is list I am trying to grow from seed. Trying Grow From Seeds: Horned Bladderwort Utricularia carnuta (FL) Southern Bladderwort Utricularia juncea (FL) Violet Butterwort Pinguicula caerulea (FL) Yellow Butterwort Pinguicula lutea (FL) Tiny Butterwort Pinguicula pumila (FL) Venus Flytrap Dionaea muscipala var. heterophlla (NC) Round-leaved Sundew Drosera rotundifolia (NJ) Pink Sundew Drosera capillaris var. capillaris (SC) Wolf ################### From: westaustralia at libero.it (Cristiano Perrucci) Date: Sat Feb 12 01:23:41 2005 Subject: [CP] Clay Vs. Peat Dear Dave, you are right. The point is this. Almost all petiolaris growing from Darwin to Broome, thrive in claysh soils expecially near termite mounds. This was the starting point for the experiment. The clay I used has quite comparable phisical properties as pH, color, consistency (dry and wet), carbonates and so on. Unfortunally I can't carry out reliable tests because this kind of analysis can be done only in well equipped labs (eg. university), not here. Cristiano, Genova -Italy- > Dear Cristiano, > > > Petiolaris _Drosera_ can be found growing in clayish soil (laterite) > so I think you have a very good idea here. > > > Dave Evans > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On Behalf > Of Cristiano Perrucci > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 4:36 AM > To: Cp > Subject: [CP] Clay Vs. Peat > > > Dear all, > has anybody tried to use clay soil in Petiolaris Group Drosera cultivation? > A few months ago, I put some plants in a mix of 70% silica sand ad 30% clay > with fair results. D.paradoxa, D.broomensis and D.caduca seems to enjoy that > soil type. > That clay is slightly acid with pH~6.5, with a little trace of carbonates. > > Cheers, > Cristiano Perrucci, Genoa -Italy- > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ____________________________________________________________ Navighi a 2 MEGA e i primi 3 mesi sono GRATIS. Scegli Libero Adsl Flat senza limiti su http://www.libero.it ################### From: jmateosky at yahoo.com (JIM MATEOSKY) Date: Sat Feb 12 05:22:06 2005 Subject: [CP] looking for nepenthes wholesaler(s) Hi all, Any Suggestions on Nepenthes wholesalers? I live in Costa Rica in a cloud forrest, I currently grow bromeliads, and nepenthis for hobby, but I think my location would be excellent for the highlanders. Thanks, Jim Mateosky jmateosky@yahoo.com ################### From: csvieira at epm.net.co (Sebastian Vieira U.) Date: Sun Feb 13 05:40:52 2005 Subject: [CP] meristocaulis germination Ummm, now I am starting to get worried, I have no germination yet and the seed has been there for a month. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 10/02/2005 ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Sun Feb 13 06:06:34 2005 Subject: [CP] meristocaulis germination No need to worry yet Sebas since mine have been sitting on the soil surface for over 2 months now! And it is summer down here, so the weather has been rather warm. (Although I have to admit the pots are very mossy and the seedlings might be hidden in there somewhere...) Good Luck, Fernando Rivadavia ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 10:40 AM > Ummm, now I am starting to get worried, I have no germination yet and > the seed has been there for a month. > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 10/02/2005 > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Sun Feb 13 15:45:14 2005 Subject: [CP] meristocaulis germination Hi Fernando and Sebastian, Meristocaulis took 2 months to germinate for me, so just forget about them and look again in a month! Matt Message: 2 To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" Message-ID: <000e01c511de$d83d6000$704406c9@abbrazil> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" No need to worry yet Sebas since mine have been sitting on the soil surface for over 2 months now! And it is summer down here, so the weather has been rather warm. (Although I have to admit the pots are very mossy and the seedlings might be hidden in there somewhere...) Good Luck, Fernando Rivadavia -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Mon Feb 14 09:37:56 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: D. meristocaulis Hi Fernando, We will get more photos soon and put them up on the same page. I'll let you know here when we do. Two of my seedlings unfolded their first killer leaves and I have used microscopic manipulation to feed them. While doing this I noticed something else interesting about the plant which is not in the species description. The retentive glands at the tips of the long marginal tentacles are shaped as only I have seen a pygmy species. They lie dorsally on the tentacle and project upward, and are door-knob shaped. With all the characteristics they share, I am totally convinced D. meristocaulis should be placed in the pygmy group. I figure we might as well call it the South American Pygmy Sundew. Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Mon Feb 14 17:25:14 2005 Subject: [CP] hi, im jon hey im new to cps and i love them! im only 17, but i have a thirst for propagation and growing. right now i have just on cp the regualr vft. my current objective is to get cold hardy and native cps in new england (i want to start a bog garden this spring!) right now im looking for sarracenia flava, sarracenia leueophylla,sarracenia rubra, or any other cps that can go into my bog garden that will survive the rough new england weather! -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: stephenwd at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Davis) Date: Mon Feb 14 19:56:12 2005 Subject: [CP] Great Article on John Philip - NECPS http://www.projo.com/garden/content/projo_20050213_plants.1d3388b.html on John Philip from the NECPS. Well done John! Stephen Davis stephenwd@sbcglobal.net www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com ################### From: Jeremiahsplants at adelphia.net (Jeremiah Harris) Date: Mon Feb 14 21:55:54 2005 Subject: [CP] hi, im jon Hello, My name is Jeremiah Harris I'm also 17. I'm founder of the Colorado Carnivorous Plant Society, if you would like to join our forums at http://s4.invisionfree.com/CCPS/index.php?act=idx it is still a small discussion forum but it is growing. I have been grow CPs since I was 4, now grow just under 400 different kinds you can view my grow list at http://s4.invisionfree.com/CCPS/index.php?showtopic=155. If you would be interested in paying for shipping ($3.85 for priority mail) I would be more the happy to send you a small assortment of CPs including S. flava, S. leueophylla and maybe S. rubra (I will check and see if I have an extra tomorrow). Let me know what you think. BTW. What is your favorite genus of CPs? thanks -Jeremiah- ________________________________________________________ Colorado Carnivorous Plant Society Jeremiah Harris 712 Columbia Rd Colorado Springs CO 80904 (719)-578-8123 AIM: Nepenthesrajah jeremiahsplants@adelphia.net http://www.geocities.com/colorado_carnivorousplantsociety/ ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 6:24 PM hey im new to cps and i love them! im only 17, but i have a thirst for propagation and growing. right now i have just on cp the regualr vft. my current objective is to get cold hardy and native cps in new england (i want to start a bog garden this spring!) right now im looking for sarracenia flava, sarracenia leueophylla,sarracenia rubra, or any other cps that can go into my bog garden that will survive the rough new england weather! -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Tue Feb 15 09:40:11 2005 Subject: [CP] New photos at Galleria Carnivora Hey Folks, Just a head's up that I've added a nice set of 32 new photographs to my photo gallery. You can see these at: http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/g343.html I think these include some of the finest studio shots I've ever taken; I'm quite pleased with them! Some highlights: **A closeup of a fungus gnat on D. graminifolia. (So THAT'S what a fungus gnat looks like close up...) **A backlit image of an unfurling D. regia leaf that I find quite beautiful (and M.C. Escher-esque). **Genlisea aurea submerged in its own deep mucous. **An interesting Pinguicula caerulea flower sport (it has a peculiar pigmentation pattern). **A rather pretty Pinguicula laueana rosette. ...and scads others. I'm interesting in hearing any comments! Cheers Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. FAQ--Author http://www.sarracenia.com/faq.html Galleria Carnivora--Curator http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/galleria.html ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Tue Feb 15 10:21:46 2005 Subject: [CP] New photos at Galleria Carnivora Hey Barry, > >Hey Folks, > >Just a head's up that I've added a nice set of 32 new photographs to my >photo gallery. You can see these at: >http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/g343.html >I think these include some of the finest studio shots I've ever taken; I'm >quite pleased with them! > >Some highlights: > >**A closeup of a fungus gnat on D. graminifolia. (So THAT'S what a fungus >gnat looks like close up...) Cool photos. I especially liked the D. regia and your fungus gnat photo. I don't remember enough of my entomology, but I know that you can sex a lot of dipterans based on their antennae. If I remember correctly, fuzzy antennae (like yours) belong to females while males have plain, non-fuzzy antennae (I've got a 50/50 chance on this). Just another nerdy useless fact to store away in your brain ;-)! Cheers! Chris ################### From: calebcaleb_2000 at hotmail.com (caleb shaffer) Date: Tue Feb 15 14:24:12 2005 Subject: [CP] Question re: germination Hi- I am hoping that I can get some advice on what to do with some cp seeds I have. While I have been growing plants for a number of years, I am attempting to grow from seed for the first time. I have had two plastic bags with seeds for S. flava (Schnell Clone) and S. rubra ssp. gulfensis in the fridge for about 6 months now. My question is how I should go about germinating them. Would they still be good seeds since they have been in the fridge? And, if so, would I still need to cold stratify them (they were just in plastic bags and no growing medium)? Thank you for any help you can provide! Caleb ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Tue Feb 15 15:15:45 2005 Subject: [CP] re: new england cps Thanks Jeremiah you are sure a nice person, i would be able to send you the postage, was it $3.85? also i would need the adress to send it to, also have you had any experince with the species that i metioned and their conpatibilty with cold weather bog gardens? and one more thing, ive never had plants sent to me, so how do they survive being shipped in a box for so long? thanks, jon p.s sorry for all the qestions! p.p.s. i love all cps but i would have to say that my favs are the pitcher plants that i can keep in my (soon to be) bog garden, i just cant wait to see them growing in my backyard! all i have to do is keep them alive intill i can get them out there! i hope i can do it! -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: o.marthaler at bluewin.ch (o.marthaler@bluewin.ch) Date: Tue Feb 15 15:16:30 2005 Subject: [CP] Sarr, Dros, VT fen... or Nep ??? reference: 4. New photos at Galleria Carnivora (Barry Rice) in the latest issue of the forum Hi Barry, Super photos indeed... but am I confused or the photo labelled "Sarracenia, Drosera, VT fen" in your Oct.-Nov Galleria additions rather shows a nepenthes ? Maybe it was a joke I failed to understand :) Cheers, OL ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Tue Feb 15 15:22:22 2005 Subject: [CP] Question re: germination Hi Caleb, John B. maintains good instructions on germinating various cp seed on the ICPS website. I'd recommend visiting there for more detailed advice. Of course, I'm assuming the information is still there, I haven't check for a while! If you've had them stored dry in the fridge, they should be fine. I've germinated some seed that was over 10 years old with good success. The key when storing it is to keep it cool and dry. For germinating, they will require a cool, moist period of stratification. I generally try to give all Sarracenia seed about a month of stratification. Opinions will vary on the length. Since it is approaching spring, you may want to wait until risks of hard frosts pass (or bring in the pots at night), and direct sow the seed onto soil mix and leave outside to let it germinate on its own. The other option I usually use is to place the seed in between some moist (not soaking wet) paper towel, place in a ziploc, and put it in the fridge for a month. You'll usually notice lots of mould at the end of the month, but Sarr seed seems to be pretty resistant to it. Place on the surface of your soil, and most will germinate within another month. Wait 3-5 years for flowering! Cheers! Chris >Hi- > >I am hoping that I can get some advice on what to do with some cp seeds I >have. While I have been growing plants for a number of years, I am >attempting to grow from seed for the first time. I have had two plastic >bags with seeds for S. flava (Schnell Clone) and S. rubra ssp. gulfensis in >the fridge for about 6 months now. My question is how I should go about >germinating them. Would they still be good seeds since they have been in >the fridge? And, if so, would I still need to cold stratify them (they >were just in plastic bags and no growing medium)? > >Thank you for any help you can provide! > >Caleb > > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Tue Feb 15 17:14:38 2005 Subject: [CP] Great Article on John Philip - NECPS Could be, but I'll never know. To register to read it I had to fill out a registration form, and as a general rule, I never fill such things out. In a message dated 2/14/2005 7:56:30 PM Pacific Standard Time, stephenwd@sbcglobal.net writes: http://www.projo.com/garden/content/projo_20050213_plants.1d3388b.html on John Philip from the NECPS. Well done John! TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: paul.temple at eds.com (Temple, Paul) Date: Wed Feb 16 01:05:21 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: hi, im jon (jon mungeam) I'm Paul Temple and at 17 I had a thirst for propagation too! Oops - sorry, couldn't resist the opportunity to maintain a topic that wasn't about red-green rosetty sprouting things . Regrets to fuddy duddys who think this was too off topic!. Regards Paul ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Wed Feb 16 08:39:46 2005 Subject: [CP] more D. meristocaulis Hi all, There are now 3 more photos of seedling D. meristocaulis on the Los Angeles CP Society web site www.geocities.com/lacps . You can click on this link to go directly to the page: http://www.geocities.com/lacps//Dmeristocaulis.html These 3 new later stage shots are of the seed germinating which at first fooled me because it was standing propped up on end when it germinated. As you can see the seed leaves are still hidden (*crypto*cotylar) within the seed. This seedling has already fed, and I removed the remains. Fernando, Can you write something for Ed to put up on the page? I can, but not sure you will agree with all I think. Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: n.bellii at netzero.net (n.bellii@netzero.net) Date: Wed Feb 16 10:44:13 2005 Subject: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids Hello, I've been looking through my some of my cp books, and can't find information about sterile Drosera hybrids. Do most Drosera hybrids set sterile seeds or no seed at all? Ivan Snyders article in the June 2003 CPN, mentions Drosera x obovata as an example of a hybrid that should not be able to set seed, because of non viable pollen, but also states this same hybrid as not ever being documented to produce viable seeds. The same article Ivan mentions finding underdeveloped seeds in small amounts, at natural sites of this hybrid. How does formation of non-viable seed take place, in plants that should not be able to set seed at all? Thank you, Steven Stewart Florida, USA ################### From: CMcdon0923 at aol.com (CMcdon0923@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 16 11:53:24 2005 Subject: [CP] A Sure Sign of Spring..... Just walked down to the greenhouse to see how everyone was doing, and I noticed that one of my S. leucophylla is sending up a flower scape. Craig Frisco, TX ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Wed Feb 16 12:14:10 2005 Subject: [CP] A Sure Sign of Spring..... I just walked out of my front door this morning, and noticed it was -18C. Spring is a ways off for my area :-)! Chris > >Just walked down to the greenhouse to see how everyone was doing, and I >noticed that one of my S. leucophylla is sending up a flower scape. > >Craig >Frisco, TX > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Wed Feb 16 12:27:10 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Sarr, Dros, VT fen... or Nep ??? Hi OL, The photo you mentioned: http://www.sarracenia.com/photos/habitats/habvt01.jpg is indeed a photograph from a fen in Vermont. The foreground plant you are confused by is not a Nepenthes, but is rather just an interesting little herb. I admit, though, it is an amusing illusion, but not one I intentionally created or intended. Cheers Barry > reference: 4. New photos at Galleria Carnivora (Barry > Rice) in the latest > issue of the forum > > Hi Barry, > > Super photos indeed... but am I confused or the photo labelled > "Sarracenia, Drosera, VT fen" in your Oct.-Nov Galleria > additions rather shows a nepenthes ? > Maybe it was a joke I failed to understand :) > Cheers, > > OL ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Wed Feb 16 12:29:01 2005 Subject: [CP] A Sure Sign of Spring..... Yep,same up here in northeast! I notice some of native lily plants are popping up about a week ago? A sure sign of early spring weather. Wolf ----Original Message Follows---- Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group To: Cp@omnisterra.com Just walked down to the greenhouse to see how everyone was doing, and I noticed that one of my S. leucophylla is sending up a flower scape. Craig Frisco, TX _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: Jeremiahsplants at adelphia.net (Jeremiah Harris) Date: Wed Feb 16 13:08:38 2005 Subject: [CP] re: new england cps Hello, lol thanks. Yeah postage is $3.85 for priority mail. I always ship priority mail because I can pay and ship it from home, it make things a lot easier. My address is, Colorado Carnivorous Plant Society Jeremiah Harris 712 Columbia Rd Colorado Springs CO 80904 I have never left any of my Sarracenia out past 20F, you might just have to experiment or talk to someone who has. I ship tons of plants, I have given away over 140 boxes and traded at least that many and I have only had one plant not make it in shipping. The plants are usually in the box for about 3 day with priority mail so really not that long. Sarracenia ship really well this time of yeah since most are in dormancy. Thanks -Jeremiah- ________________________________________________________ Colorado Carnivorous Plant Society Jeremiah Harris 712 Columbia Rd Colorado Springs CO 80904 (719)-578-8123 AIM: Nepenthesrajah jeremiahsplants@adelphia.net http://www.geocities.com/colorado_carnivorousplantsociety/ ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 4:15 PM Thanks Jeremiah you are sure a nice person, i would be able to send you the postage, was it $3.85? also i would need the adress to send it to, also have you had any experince with the species that i metioned and their conpatibilty with cold weather bog gardens? and one more thing, ive never had plants sent to me, so how do they survive being shipped in a box for so long? thanks, jon p.s sorry for all the qestions! p.p.s. i love all cps but i would have to say that my favs are the pitcher plants that i can keep in my (soon to be) bog garden, i just cant wait to see them growing in my backyard! all i have to do is keep them alive intill i can get them out there! i hope i can do it! -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 2/14/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 2/14/2005 ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Wed Feb 16 13:40:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Out of Zone CPs/Re Drosera hybrid Hey Everyone, Does anyone know of an naturalised out of zone cps. Keyword is naturized as in living and reproducing in a natural bog or something without your help. If so plese tell me. Not speciefics but generalizations. Like I know of naturized S. purpurea ssp. venosa var. burkeii and S. leucophylla here in NE Florida. Counties are generally not needed but if you have them that would be okay as long as you think no one will find the plants. I am curious about whether or not any other non-natives have been naturized out of zone. What species was htat in the Pine Barrens? ################### From: o.marthaler at bluewin.ch (o.marthaler@bluewin.ch) Date: Wed Feb 16 14:15:36 2005 Subject: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids Hi Steven, Not being a botanist at all, I will only mention to you my own and modest experience: Nearly three years ago in the spring, I collected a few droseras x obovatas (?)in a couple of bogs overhere in Western Switzerland, as a young friend of mine was doing a school research in botany about the carnivorous flora of our region. Collecting them was intended to make sure the plants he was studying were not dr. anglica, as the leaves did look quite similar indeed. So those plants later flowered at my place, and, while in the same conditions *definitely sure* dr. rotundifolia and dr. anglica produced seeds *(viable, as I sowed them later and they germinated), those dr. obovatas also flowered, but produced NO seeds whatsoever! Thus we deduced they were x obovata indeed... But are ALL x obovata sterile in nature? Sorry we'll have to wait for more expert answers! Just my little brick on the wall! Cheers, OL btw: "your" nep. bical. sown in CH look splendid now ! Thanx again. >Message: 8 >Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 18:42:08 GMT >From: "n.bellii@netzero.net" >Subject: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids >To: Cp@omnisterra.com >Message-ID: <20050216.104236.15672.70344@webmail26.lax.untd.com> >Content-Type: text/plain > > >Hello, > >I've been looking through my some of my cp books, and can't find information >about sterile Drosera hybrids. > >Do most Drosera hybrids set sterile seeds or no seed at all? > >Ivan Snyders article in the June 2003 CPN, mentions Drosera x obovata as >an example of a hybrid that should not be able to set seed, because of non >viable pollen, but also states this same hybrid as not ever being documented >to produce viable seeds. The same article Ivan mentions finding underdeveloped >seeds in small amounts, at natural sites of this hybrid. > >How does formation of non-viable seed take place, in plants that should not >be able to set seed at all? > >Thank you, >Steven Stewart >Florida, USA > > > ################### From: AppleCakeTeaRoom at aol.com (AppleCakeTeaRoom@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 16 17:29:22 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Sure Sign of Spring "Just walked down to the greenhouse to see how everyone was doing, and I noticed that one of my S. leucophylla is sending up a flower scape." That's great news! I haven't really looked at mine outside yet, but now I will since I'll have something fun to look for. In the Botany lab however, no signs of flower stalks but there are 3 new pitchers on the plants. They've just come out of the fridge (4 degrees C and constant light), hopefully they'll put up some flowers this year. ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Wed Feb 16 20:32:38 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: ne cps jeramiah, did u get my message? plus anybody else have any cp plants that are native to the north east, please contact me. ----- Original Message ----- To: Cp@omnisterra.com > > Send Cp mailing list submissions to > Cp@omnisterra.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > Cp-request@omnisterra.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > Cp-owner@omnisterra.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Cp digest..." > > > CP Mailing list > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Question re: germination (caleb shaffer) > 2. re: new england cps (jon mungeam) > 3. Sarr, Dros, VT fen... or Nep ??? (o.marthaler@bluewin.ch) > 4. RE: Question re: germination (Chris Teichreb) > 5. Re: Great Article on John Philip - NECPS (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) > 6. RE: hi, im jon (jon mungeam) (Temple, Paul) > 7. more D. meristocaulis (bioexp@juno.com) > 8. Sterile Drosera hybrids (n.bellii@netzero.net) > 9. A Sure Sign of Spring..... (CMcdon0923@aol.com) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:23:52 -0600 > From: "caleb shaffer" > Subject: [CP] Question re: germination > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > Hi- > > I am hoping that I can get some advice on what to do with some cp seeds I > have. While I have been growing plants for a number of years, I am > attempting to grow from seed for the first time. I have had two plastic > bags with seeds for S. flava (Schnell Clone) and S. rubra ssp. gulfensis in > the fridge for about 6 months now. My question is how I should go about > germinating them. Would they still be good seeds since they have been in > the fridge? And, if so, would I still need to cold stratify them (they were > just in plastic bags and no growing medium)? > > Thank you for any help you can provide! > > Caleb > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 07:15:32 +0800 > From: "jon mungeam" > Subject: [CP] re: new england cps > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050215231532.C0FAF1027BE@ws3.hk5.outblaze.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thanks Jeremiah you are sure a nice person, i would be able to send > you the postage, was it $3.85? also i would need the adress to send > it to, also have you had any experince with the species that i > metioned and their conpatibilty with cold weather bog gardens? and > one more thing, ive never had plants sent to me, so how do they > survive being shipped in a box for so long? > > thanks, jon > > p.s sorry for all the qestions! > > p.p.s. i love all cps but i would have to say that my favs are the > pitcher plants that i can keep in my (soon to be) bog garden, i > just cant wait to see them growing in my backyard! all i have to do > is keep them alive intill i can get them out there! i hope i can do > it! > -- > _______________________________________________ > Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 00:13:15 +0100 > From: o.marthaler@bluewin.ch > Subject: [CP] Sarr, Dros, VT fen... or Nep ??? > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <4202CD28000671D5@mssazhb-int.msg.bluewin.ch> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" > > > reference: 4. New photos at Galleria Carnivora (Barry Rice) in the latest > issue of the forum > > > Hi Barry, > > Super photos indeed... but am I confused or the photo labelled > > "Sarracenia, Drosera, VT fen" in your Oct.-Nov Galleria additions rather > shows a nepenthes ? > > Maybe it was a joke I failed to understand :) > > Cheers, > > OL > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:21:11 -0800 > From: "Chris Teichreb" > Subject: RE: [CP] Question re: germination > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > Hi Caleb, > > John B. maintains good instructions on germinating various cp seed on the > ICPS website. I'd recommend visiting there for more detailed advice. Of > course, I'm assuming the information is still there, I haven't check for a > while! > > If you've had them stored dry in the fridge, they should be fine. I've > germinated some seed that was over 10 years old with good success. The key > when storing it is to keep it cool and dry. > > For germinating, they will require a cool, moist period of stratification. > I generally try to give all Sarracenia seed about a month of stratification. > Opinions will vary on the length. Since it is approaching spring, you may > want to wait until risks of hard frosts pass (or bring in the pots at > night), and direct sow the seed onto soil mix and leave outside to let it > germinate on its own. > > The other option I usually use is to place the seed in between some moist > (not soaking wet) paper towel, place in a ziploc, and put it in the fridge > for a month. You'll usually notice lots of mould at the end of the month, > but Sarr seed seems to be pretty resistant to it. Place on the surface of > your soil, and most will germinate within another month. Wait 3-5 years for > flowering! > > Cheers! > > Chris > > > Hi- > > > > I am hoping that I can get some advice on what to do with some cp > > seeds I have. While I have been growing plants for a number of > > years, I am attempting to grow from seed for the first time. I > > have had two plastic bags with seeds for S. flava (Schnell > > Clone) and S. rubra ssp. gulfensis in the fridge for about 6 > > months now. My question is how I should go about germinating > > them. Would they still be good seeds since they have been in the > > fridge? And, if so, would I still need to cold stratify them > > (they were just in plastic bags and no growing medium)? > > > > Thank you for any help you can provide! > > > > Caleb > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cp mailing list > > Cp@omnisterra.com > > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:14:16 EST > From: HmrTheHrmt@aol.com > Subject: Re: [CP] Great Article on John Philip - NECPS > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <12f.56fac510.2f43f868@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > Could be, but I'll never know. To register to read it I had to fill out a > registration form, and as a general rule, I never fill such things out. > > In a message dated 2/14/2005 7:56:30 PM Pacific Standard Time, > stephenwd@sbcglobal.net writes: > > http://www.projo.com/garden/content/projo_20050213_plants.1d3388b.html on > John Philip from the NECPS. > > > > Well done John! > > > > > > > > TTFN > > > Hamir the Hermit > > > "And there you have another example of how, > while life for you is getting bigger and better, > for someone else in the world, > it's getting smaller and worse." > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:04:49 -0000 > From: "Temple, Paul" > Subject: [CP] RE: hi, im jon (jon mungeam) > To: "'Cp@omnisterra.com'" > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain > > I'm Paul Temple and at 17 I had a thirst for propagation too! > > Oops - sorry, couldn't resist the opportunity to maintain a topic that > wasn't about red-green rosetty sprouting things . Regrets to fuddy duddys > who think this was too off topic!. > > Regards > > Paul > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:38:07 GMT > From: "bioexp@juno.com" > Subject: [CP] more D. meristocaulis > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050216.083905.11014.67412@webmail26.nyc.untd.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > > Hi all, > There are now 3 more photos of seedling D. meristocaulis on the Los > Angeles CP Society web site www.geocities.com/lacps . You can click > on this link to go directly to the page: > http://www.geocities.com/lacps//Dmeristocaulis.html > These 3 new later stage shots are of the seed germinating which at > first fooled me because it was standing propped up on end when it > germinated. As you can see the seed leaves are still hidden > (*crypto*cotylar) within the seed. This seedling has already fed, > and I removed the remains. Fernando, Can you write something for Ed > to put up on the page? I can, but not sure you will agree with all > I think. > Ivan Snyder > Hermosa Beach > California > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. > Now includes pop-up blocker! > Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 18:42:08 GMT > From: "n.bellii@netzero.net" > Subject: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050216.104236.15672.70344@webmail26.lax.untd.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > > Hello, > > I've been looking through my some of my cp books, and can't find > information about sterile Drosera hybrids. > > Do most Drosera hybrids set sterile seeds or no seed at all? > > Ivan Snyders article in the June 2003 CPN, mentions Drosera x > obovata as an example of a hybrid that should not be able to set > seed, because of non viable pollen, but also states this same > hybrid as not ever being documented to produce viable seeds. The > same article Ivan mentions finding underdeveloped seeds in small > amounts, at natural sites of this hybrid. > > How does formation of non-viable seed take place, in plants that > should not be able to set seed at all? > > Thank you, > Steven Stewart > Florida, USA > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:52:55 -0500 > From: CMcdon0923@aol.com > Subject: [CP] A Sure Sign of Spring..... > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <50961093.418AFDB8.0A2C07BE@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Just walked down to the greenhouse to see how everyone was doing, > and I noticed that one of my S. leucophylla is sending up a flower > scape. > > Craig > Frisco, TX > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > End of Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 16 > ********************************** -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 16 20:41:15 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Sure Sign of Spring My Sarrs are sending up their flower stalks here in Southern Calif. as well. A bit earlier than usual. Made me have to do my usual cleaning sooner than I would have. In a message dated 2/16/2005 5:29:37 PM Pacific Standard Time, AppleCakeTeaRoom@aol.com writes: "Just walked down to the greenhouse to see how everyone was doing, and I noticed that one of my S. leucophylla is sending up a flower scape." That's great news! I haven't really looked at mine outside yet, but now I will since I'll have something fun to look for. In the Botany lab however, no signs of flower stalks but there are 3 new pitchers on the plants. They've just come out of the fridge (4 degrees C and constant light), hopefully they'll put up some flowers this year. TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Wed Feb 16 20:57:27 2005 Subject: [CP] Out of Zone CPs/Re Drosera hybrid I'm assuming you mean 'naturalized.' I don't know of any personally, myself, though I have heard that there are naturalized stands of VFT in northern florida, a stand of D. capensis in California, and Sarracenia and VFT populations naturalized in Merry Olde England. I'm sure there are many, many more than that. In a message dated 2/16/2005 1:40:40 PM Pacific Standard Time, treaqum1@yahoo.com writes: Hey Everyone, Does anyone know of an naturalised out of zone cps. Keyword is naturized as in living and reproducing in a natural bog or something without your help. If so plese tell me. Not speciefics but generalizations. Like I know of naturized S. purpurea ssp. venosa var. burkeii and S. leucophylla here in NE Florida. Counties are generally not needed but if you have them that would be okay as long as you think no one will find the plants. I am curious about whether or not any other non-natives have been naturized out of zone. What species was htat in the Pine Barrens? TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: stephenwd at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Davis) Date: Wed Feb 16 22:30:42 2005 Subject: [CP] VFT might become NC's official carnivorous plant! I ran across this article on North Carolina naming the VFT as their state carnivorous plant. The article is rather funny too. No registration required as of today. Don't know what happens with this online paper after it goes into archives. http://www.wilmingtonstar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050216/EDITORIAL/ 502160324 Stephen Davis stephenwd@sbcglobal.net www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com ################### From: aarongunnar at sbcglobal.net (Aaron Carlson) Date: Thu Feb 17 04:25:31 2005 Subject: [CP] Guess the Hybrid Sarracenia I created this little web page awhile ago, but never posted it to this list. Just curious as to what everyone thinks the possible parents of these hybrids are. Thanks in advance. ################### From: fleischi01 at gmx.de (Andreas Fleischmann) Date: Thu Feb 17 06:06:41 2005 Subject: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids Hi all! The reason why some Drosera hybrids are sterile is the fact, that -due to the chromosome set being a mixed number of both parents' sets- they sometimes cannot have a proper meiosis, i.e. half part of the chromosomes cannot be divided up for the gametes. That's the case if the hybrid plant had an irregular number of diploid chromosomes (i.e. 2n = 15), which cannot be divided to the haploid set.(the haploid chromosome number in this case would be n = 7.5!). The result is either no seed set at all or the development of seeds with unviable embryos ("empty seeds"). That's the case in AFAIK (all???) D. x obovata, D. x beleziana, D. x hybrida, D. x anglica. But sometimes the chromosome set may double (or get to a even higher-ploid set) due to spontaneous mutation. Now the chromosomes can fullfill a proper meiosis again (in our case, the chromosome set would be 4n = 30, which can be divided to a set of 2n = 15 in the first part of meiosis). This should result into seeds containig a viable embryo. As some 60-80% of all flowering plants occuring today are assumed to be of hybridogenous origin, it's not surprising that some Drosera species are now known to have evolved from hybrids, too. I.e. D. anglica is a polyploid form of D. x anglica (D. linearis x rotundifolia), D.tokaiensis (or D. x tokaiensis, as some people still consider this one being more a natural hybrid than of own specific rank) (= D. spatulata x rotundifolia) are 2 of the more well-know examples, but D.ramentacea and D.collinsiae are considered to be of hybrid origin, too. I'm sure you will hear more on this topic here from Ivan Snyder, the "master of hybridizing Drosera"! ;-) The was a nice summary on Drosera hybrids from Martin Cheek in Kew magazine some years ago, too. All the best, Andreas -- Lassen Sie Ihren Gedanken freien Lauf... z.B. per FreeSMS GMX bietet bis zu 100 FreeSMS/Monat: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/mail ################### From: n.bellii at netzero.net (n.bellii@netzero.net) Date: Thu Feb 17 07:00:56 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: New photos at Galleria Carnivora (Barry Rice) Barry, If you listed price and availability for some of your plants, the quality of your photos would surely entice a few customers. I know when I look at the Gallery I keep certain favorites in mind for the future. I would bet more than one beginner cper has gotten "hooked" by entering your site. Steven Stewart Florida, USA ################### From: Jeremiahsplants at adelphia.net (Jeremiah Harris) Date: Thu Feb 17 09:52:58 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: ne cps Hello Well I got one then I replied is there another one I should now about? thanks -Jeremiah- ________________________________________________________ Colorado Carnivorous Plant Society Jeremiah Harris 712 Columbia Rd Colorado Springs CO 80904 (719)-578-8123 AIM: Nepenthesrajah jeremiahsplants@adelphia.net http://www.geocities.com/colorado_carnivorousplantsociety/ ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 9:32 PM jeramiah, did u get my message? plus anybody else have any cp plants that are native to the north east, please contact me. ----- Original Message ----- To: Cp@omnisterra.com > > Send Cp mailing list submissions to > Cp@omnisterra.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > Cp-request@omnisterra.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > Cp-owner@omnisterra.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Cp digest..." > > > CP Mailing list > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Question re: germination (caleb shaffer) > 2. re: new england cps (jon mungeam) > 3. Sarr, Dros, VT fen... or Nep ??? (o.marthaler@bluewin.ch) > 4. RE: Question re: germination (Chris Teichreb) > 5. Re: Great Article on John Philip - NECPS (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) > 6. RE: hi, im jon (jon mungeam) (Temple, Paul) > 7. more D. meristocaulis (bioexp@juno.com) > 8. Sterile Drosera hybrids (n.bellii@netzero.net) > 9. A Sure Sign of Spring..... (CMcdon0923@aol.com) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:23:52 -0600 > From: "caleb shaffer" > Subject: [CP] Question re: germination > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > Hi- > > I am hoping that I can get some advice on what to do with some cp seeds I > have. While I have been growing plants for a number of years, I am > attempting to grow from seed for the first time. I have had two plastic > bags with seeds for S. flava (Schnell Clone) and S. rubra ssp. gulfensis in > the fridge for about 6 months now. My question is how I should go about > germinating them. Would they still be good seeds since they have been in > the fridge? And, if so, would I still need to cold stratify them (they were > just in plastic bags and no growing medium)? > > Thank you for any help you can provide! > > Caleb > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 07:15:32 +0800 > From: "jon mungeam" > Subject: [CP] re: new england cps > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050215231532.C0FAF1027BE@ws3.hk5.outblaze.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thanks Jeremiah you are sure a nice person, i would be able to send > you the postage, was it $3.85? also i would need the adress to send > it to, also have you had any experince with the species that i > metioned and their conpatibilty with cold weather bog gardens? and > one more thing, ive never had plants sent to me, so how do they > survive being shipped in a box for so long? > > thanks, jon > > p.s sorry for all the qestions! > > p.p.s. i love all cps but i would have to say that my favs are the > pitcher plants that i can keep in my (soon to be) bog garden, i > just cant wait to see them growing in my backyard! all i have to do > is keep them alive intill i can get them out there! i hope i can do > it! > -- > _______________________________________________ > Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 00:13:15 +0100 > From: o.marthaler@bluewin.ch > Subject: [CP] Sarr, Dros, VT fen... or Nep ??? > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <4202CD28000671D5@mssazhb-int.msg.bluewin.ch> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" > > > reference: 4. New photos at Galleria Carnivora (Barry Rice) in the latest > issue of the forum > > > Hi Barry, > > Super photos indeed... but am I confused or the photo labelled > > "Sarracenia, Drosera, VT fen" in your Oct.-Nov Galleria additions rather > shows a nepenthes ? > > Maybe it was a joke I failed to understand :) > > Cheers, > > OL > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:21:11 -0800 > From: "Chris Teichreb" > Subject: RE: [CP] Question re: germination > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > Hi Caleb, > > John B. maintains good instructions on germinating various cp seed on the > ICPS website. I'd recommend visiting there for more detailed advice. Of > course, I'm assuming the information is still there, I haven't check for a > while! > > If you've had them stored dry in the fridge, they should be fine. I've > germinated some seed that was over 10 years old with good success. The key > when storing it is to keep it cool and dry. > > For germinating, they will require a cool, moist period of stratification. > I generally try to give all Sarracenia seed about a month of stratification. > Opinions will vary on the length. Since it is approaching spring, you may > want to wait until risks of hard frosts pass (or bring in the pots at > night), and direct sow the seed onto soil mix and leave outside to let it > germinate on its own. > > The other option I usually use is to place the seed in between some moist > (not soaking wet) paper towel, place in a ziploc, and put it in the fridge > for a month. You'll usually notice lots of mould at the end of the month, > but Sarr seed seems to be pretty resistant to it. Place on the surface of > your soil, and most will germinate within another month. Wait 3-5 years for > flowering! > > Cheers! > > Chris > > > Hi- > > > > I am hoping that I can get some advice on what to do with some cp > > seeds I have. While I have been growing plants for a number of > > years, I am attempting to grow from seed for the first time. I > > have had two plastic bags with seeds for S. flava (Schnell > > Clone) and S. rubra ssp. gulfensis in the fridge for about 6 > > months now. My question is how I should go about germinating > > them. Would they still be good seeds since they have been in the > > fridge? And, if so, would I still need to cold stratify them > > (they were just in plastic bags and no growing medium)? > > > > Thank you for any help you can provide! > > > > Caleb > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cp mailing list > > Cp@omnisterra.com > > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:14:16 EST > From: HmrTheHrmt@aol.com > Subject: Re: [CP] Great Article on John Philip - NECPS > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <12f.56fac510.2f43f868@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > Could be, but I'll never know. To register to read it I had to fill out a > registration form, and as a general rule, I never fill such things out. > > In a message dated 2/14/2005 7:56:30 PM Pacific Standard Time, > stephenwd@sbcglobal.net writes: > > http://www.projo.com/garden/content/projo_20050213_plants.1d3388b.html on > John Philip from the NECPS. > > > > Well done John! > > > > > > > > TTFN > > > Hamir the Hermit > > > "And there you have another example of how, > while life for you is getting bigger and better, > for someone else in the world, > it's getting smaller and worse." > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:04:49 -0000 > From: "Temple, Paul" > Subject: [CP] RE: hi, im jon (jon mungeam) > To: "'Cp@omnisterra.com'" > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain > > I'm Paul Temple and at 17 I had a thirst for propagation too! > > Oops - sorry, couldn't resist the opportunity to maintain a topic that > wasn't about red-green rosetty sprouting things . Regrets to fuddy duddys > who think this was too off topic!. > > Regards > > Paul > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:38:07 GMT > From: "bioexp@juno.com" > Subject: [CP] more D. meristocaulis > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050216.083905.11014.67412@webmail26.nyc.untd.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > > Hi all, > There are now 3 more photos of seedling D. meristocaulis on the Los > Angeles CP Society web site www.geocities.com/lacps . You can click > on this link to go directly to the page: > http://www.geocities.com/lacps//Dmeristocaulis.html > These 3 new later stage shots are of the seed germinating which at > first fooled me because it was standing propped up on end when it > germinated. As you can see the seed leaves are still hidden > (*crypto*cotylar) within the seed. This seedling has already fed, > and I removed the remains. Fernando, Can you write something for Ed > to put up on the page? I can, but not sure you will agree with all > I think. > Ivan Snyder > Hermosa Beach > California > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. > Now includes pop-up blocker! > Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 18:42:08 GMT > From: "n.bellii@netzero.net" > Subject: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050216.104236.15672.70344@webmail26.lax.untd.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > > Hello, > > I've been looking through my some of my cp books, and can't find > information about sterile Drosera hybrids. > > Do most Drosera hybrids set sterile seeds or no seed at all? > > Ivan Snyders article in the June 2003 CPN, mentions Drosera x > obovata as an example of a hybrid that should not be able to set > seed, because of non viable pollen, but also states this same > hybrid as not ever being documented to produce viable seeds. The > same article Ivan mentions finding underdeveloped seeds in small > amounts, at natural sites of this hybrid. > > How does formation of non-viable seed take place, in plants that > should not be able to set seed at all? > > Thank you, > Steven Stewart > Florida, USA > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:52:55 -0500 > From: CMcdon0923@aol.com > Subject: [CP] A Sure Sign of Spring..... > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <50961093.418AFDB8.0A2C07BE@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Just walked down to the greenhouse to see how everyone was doing, > and I noticed that one of my S. leucophylla is sending up a flower > scape. > > Craig > Frisco, TX > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > End of Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 16 > ********************************** -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 2/14/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 2/14/2005 ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Thu Feb 17 10:00:52 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: New photos at Galleria Carnivora Hi Steven, Ah, with the exception of Utricularia calycifida cultivars, I don't sell plants. I leave that to others. I just take photos! Cheers Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. FAQ--Author http://www.sarracenia.com/faq.html Galleria Carnivora--Curator http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/galleria.html > From: "n.bellii@netzero.net" > Subject: [CP] RE: New photos at Galleria Carnivora (Barry Rice) > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050217.065922.4264.83785@webmail21.lax.untd.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > > > Barry, > > If you listed price and availability for some of your plants, > the quality of your photos would surely entice a few > customers. I know when I look at the Gallery I keep certain > favorites in mind for the future. I would bet more than one > beginner cper has gotten "hooked" by entering your site. > > Steven Stewart > Florida, USA ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Thu Feb 17 10:13:52 2005 Subject: [CP] Non-native CP plantings Hey Tre, Oh, man, there are lots of non-native CP plantings. A few highlights off the top of my head: **S. purpurea in Ireland **More than 20 species in Mendocino County, CA. **Various species in Butterfly Valley, CA, and Del Norte County, CA. **VFTs in Florida **Several species including S. rubra and S. minor in the Pine Barrens **Aldrovanda being intentionally released at various sites in eastern USA (an interesting phenomenon and study in human psychology; those doing it are rationalizing their actions a number of ways, my favorite being that "someone will eventually do it, and even though it is possibly a bad thing it might as well be me doing it!") **U. inflata in Washington, where it may be declared a noxious weed. **S. purpurea in Arizona (probably extirpated by now) **S. flava in New Zealand, as well as other species. **U. gibba in Hawai'i. Etc etc etc. There is a subculture of carnivorous plant growers who are unfortunately pretty arrogant in feeling they can "augment" wildlands with non-native plantings. As a result of this and poaching, a lot of conservation workers tend to classify CPers as conservation-clueless. Please note that I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular; I'm just reporting on the attitudes of staff in Federal/state agencies and NGOs in the USA. So no flames would be appreciated! Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Director of Conservation Programs The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:39:53 -0800 (PST) > From: Tre Bond > Subject: [CP] Out of Zone CPs/Re Drosera hybrid > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050216213953.96825.qmail@web53309.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hey Everyone, > Does anyone know of an naturalised out of zone cps. Keyword > is naturized as in living and reproducing in a natural bog or > something without your help. If so plese tell me. Not > speciefics but generalizations. Like I know of naturized S. > purpurea ssp. venosa var. burkeii and S. leucophylla here in > NE Florida. Counties are generally not needed but if you > have them that would be okay as long as you think no one will > find the plants. I am curious about whether or not any other > non-natives have been naturized out of zone. What species > was htat in the Pine Barrens? ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Thu Feb 17 11:30:31 2005 Subject: [CP] VFT might become NC's official carnivorous plant! Thanks Steph! I have a buddy who just came back that lived in NC for past 9 yrs. I sure he would love to hear this? I think NC should snap at this since it is the most recognized native plant in NC,then other wildflowers. Here in MD the most recognized CP is S. purpurea,but it is not our state wildflower. Your link was broked,but I copied and pasted it in address bar. And saved the link incase any one wants to read it some time? Wolf ----Original Message Follows---- Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" I ran across this article on North Carolina naming the VFT as their state carnivorous plant. The article is rather funny too. No registration required as of today. Don't know what happens with this online paper after it goes into archives. http://www.wilmingtonstar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050216/EDITORIAL/ 502160324 Stephen Davis stephenwd@sbcglobal.net www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Thu Feb 17 11:31:52 2005 Subject: [CP] Non-native CP plantings Since all the parts of Arizona I've seen are desert, I'd think the general environment would extirpate any S. purpurea in existence. In a message dated 2/17/2005 10:14:19 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, bamrice@ucdavis.edu writes: **S. purpurea in Arizona (probably extirpated by now) TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Thu Feb 17 12:11:43 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 18 Hey Hamir, You're only thinking desert. You forget the sky islands and the Mogollon Rim. Both have perennial acid wetlands that would be quite amenable areas. Remember that U. macrorhiza and U. minor both occur in Arizona: http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/g111.html Cheers Barry > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 14:31:37 EST > From: HmrTheHrmt@aol.com > Subject: Re: [CP] Non-native CP plantings > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <1c0.2388459c.2f464b19@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > Since all the parts of Arizona I've seen are desert, I'd > think the general environment would extirpate any S. purpurea > in existence. > > > In a message dated 2/17/2005 10:14:19 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > bamrice@ucdavis.edu writes: > > **S. purpurea in Arizona (probably extirpated by now) ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Thu Feb 17 13:14:19 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 18 Sky islands are... what? Mountain tops or mesas that get significantly more rain than the lowlands? Those areas in the photos look pretty far removed from civilization, can't imagine anyone took the effort to drag S. purpurea seeds up there... (and even less likely whole plants to transplant). We CP growers can be a pretty determined bunch, I guess. In a message dated 2/17/2005 12:11:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, bamrice@ucdavis.edu writes: Hey Hamir, You're only thinking desert. You forget the sky islands and the Mogollon Rim. Both have perennial acid wetlands that would be quite amenable areas. Remember that U. macrorhiza and U. minor both occur in Arizona: http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/g111.html Cheers Barry TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: walterg at nauticom.net (Walter Greenwood) Date: Thu Feb 17 15:24:18 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings I believe there is a colony of VFTs in central Pennsylvania, too. (I didn't do it - honest!) -WG ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Thu Feb 17 16:24:26 2005 Subject: [CP] RE:out of zone Yes I meant 'Naturalized'. I did not count the VFTs in Flrida because that is common knowledge but I did not know of anyothers besides the ones here in NE Florida ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Thu Feb 17 16:32:56 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Non-native CP plantings Dear Tre, There could be some _Sarracenia_ hybrids involving _S. flava, S. purpurea venosa_ and _S. oreophila_ in Bloomsburg, PA. (I didn't do it either, BTW!) Not sure about the VFT. Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of Walter Greenwood Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 6:24 PM I believe there is a colony of VFTs in central Pennsylvania, too. (I didn't do it - honest!) -WG ################### From: Bluemounttc at aol.com (Bluemounttc@aol.com) Date: Fri Feb 18 03:36:36 2005 Subject: [CP] Signs of Spring; Tissue Culture of CP'S While it is icy and snowy outside today here in Maryland, I am happy to say I have Sarracenia purpurea, S. leucophylla 'Tarnok', and lots of flytraps sending up flower stalks in my propagation house. Ah, I love this time of year. Is anyone else in this group doing tissue culture of CP's? I'd love to network with others doing similar work as me. Regards, Bonnie Collins Monkton, Maryland ################### From: hkobayashi4 at hotmail.com (Hideka Kobayashi) Date: Fri Feb 18 06:38:47 2005 Subject: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids I think the key here is “some.” But then why can a hybrid of two species with equal chromosome numbers be sterile? The sterility of such hybrids may stem from the difference in genomic background of parental species, rather than chromosome numbers. In other words, chromosomes of one parent may not pair well with ones from the other parent. I wouldn’t personally call this ( a simple increase in the number of chormosomes) a “mutation.” There could have been, but is there any change in gene(s) always or usually associated with polyploidization? Also, production of unreduced gametes may be one reason why triploids and such can produce viable seeds. Hideka ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Fri Feb 18 07:01:27 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings I've written a note previously published in CPN about a bog near Vancouver with several introduced and naturalized species. I've also submitted an article on Darlingtonia introduction on Vancouver Island (though plants haven't reached maturity yet). I know of a couple other introduced populations that have successfully naturalized bogs around Vancouver and Washington. Seems to be something we as humans are drawn into doing; introducing flora/fauna into places it shouldn't be! Chris ################### From: hpulley at rogers.com (Harry Pulley) Date: Fri Feb 18 07:24:01 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings Overall this is one of the cases where I find it funny how we separate the activities of man from the activies of nature. If a bird eats a seed and migrates a long distance, dropping it far from home where it flourishes by chance, is it now an alien species? This has been happening for millions of years. Somehow, when this happens either accidentally or on purpose in connection with humans, we call it the wanton destruction of native ecosystems. Species have been moved and made extinct since the beginning of life on the planet. Humans are particularly good at it but it is nothing new and certainly nothing modern. I commend people for conservation efforts and I think it is a good idea to only plant native species in your outdoor garden anyways; that way you don't need to offer them special winter protection. Eg. if I plant on S. purpurea, D. rotundiflora and D. intermedia then not only am I not introducing alien species, but they'll grow fine since my yard is in their native zone! There is a nice native plant nursery around here offering not just CPs but many others which is a nice way to garden. Harry Pulley Guelph, Ontario, Canada ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Fri Feb 18 09:59:16 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Drosera hybrids Hello Steven, Andreas, and all, I must warn that the following reply may prove extraordinarily technical. Only those initiated in such apocrypha should continue. Most sterile hybrid sundews do not set seed at all Steven. Although one common natural hybrid, triploid D. x obovata, may produce a few *apparently* well formed seed. In my article I cite other papers that tell, "all North American Drosera hybrids are sterile". Experimentation proved that in a rare case tetraploid D. x obovata are at least slightly fertile. I'll try to explain how the common sterile triploid is able to produce a few nonviable seed: As Schnell pointed out, the sterile plant's pollen grains contain no starch and so are unable to grow pollen tubes. Perhaps a few do cantain some starch? Still, even if fertilization is achieved, there is that chromosome mismatch as Andreas elaborated. And remember, chromosome cross-over (Chiasmata) does not occur at fertilization; only at meiosis. Hope that helps! Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California >I've been looking through my some of my cp books, and can't find information about sterile Drosera hybrids. Do most Drosera hybrids set sterile seeds or no seed at all? Ivan Snyders article in the June 2003 CPN, mentions Drosera x obovata as an example of a hybrid that should not be able to set seed, because of non viable pollen, but also states this same hybrid as not ever being documented to produce viable seeds. The same article Ivan mentions finding underdeveloped seeds in small amounts, at natural sites of this hybrid. How does formation of non-viable seed take place, in plants that should not be able to set seed at all? Thank you, Steven Stewart Florida, USA ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Fri Feb 18 12:36:50 2005 Subject: [CP] re:necps thanks Jeremiah, ill be sending out postage soon! -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Fri Feb 18 12:38:38 2005 Subject: [CP] Arizona sky islands Hi Hamir, Yes, "sky islands" is a term that refers to high elevation mountains in the desert southwest. These mountaintops may be only a few tens of miles from other mountains, but since they are separated by desert lowlands, the mountaintops (which may be a climate more similar to Canada) has isolated ecosystems. Speciation occurs, and local endemic species or taxa can result. Even though sites can be remote, people are determined, as you note. This makes it even more difficult to figure out which introductions are anthropogenic in origin. In the case I'm talking about in Arizona, the original perpetrator admited to me what he had done. I visited the site a few times, but was never able to find the Sarracenia. Later! Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Director of Conservation Programs The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org > Sky islands are... what? Mountain tops or mesas that get > significantly more rain than the lowlands? Those areas in > the photos look pretty far removed from civilization, can't > imagine anyone took the effort to drag S. purpurea seeds up > there... (and even less likely whole plants to transplant). > We CP growers can be a pretty determined bunch, I guess. > > In a message dated 2/17/2005 12:11:54 P.M. Pacific Standard > Time, bamrice@ucdavis.edu writes: > > Hey Hamir, > > You're only thinking desert. You forget the sky islands and > the Mogollon Rim. Both have perennial acid wetlands that > would be quite amenable areas. > Remember that U. macrorhiza and U. minor both occur in Arizona: > http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/g111.html ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Fri Feb 18 13:01:08 2005 Subject: [CP] Arizona sky islands wow sarracenia in arizona? i thought someone was pulling my leg. --- Barry Rice wrote: > > Hi Hamir, > > Yes, "sky islands" is a term that refers to high > elevation mountains in the > desert southwest. These mountaintops may be only a > few tens of miles from > other mountains, but since they are separated by > desert lowlands, the > mountaintops (which may be a climate more similar to > Canada) has isolated > ecosystems. Speciation occurs, and local endemic > species or taxa can result. > > Even though sites can be remote, people are > determined, as you note. This > makes it even more difficult to figure out which > introductions are > anthropogenic in origin. In the case I'm talking > about in Arizona, the > original perpetrator admited to me what he had done. > I visited the site a > few times, but was never able to find the > Sarracenia. > > Later! > > Barry > > Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. > Director of Conservation Programs > The International Carnivorous Plant Society > http://www.carnivorousplants.org > > > Sky islands are... what? Mountain tops or mesas > that get > > significantly more rain than the lowlands? Those > areas in > > the photos look pretty far removed from > civilization, can't > > imagine anyone took the effort to drag S. > purpurea seeds up > > there... (and even less likely whole plants to > transplant). > > We CP growers can be a pretty determined bunch, I > guess. > > > > In a message dated 2/17/2005 12:11:54 P.M. Pacific > Standard > > Time, bamrice@ucdavis.edu writes: > > > > Hey Hamir, > > > > You're only thinking desert. You forget the sky > islands and > > the Mogollon Rim. Both have perennial acid > wetlands that > > would be quite amenable areas. > > Remember that U. macrorhiza and U. minor both > occur in Arizona: > > http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/g111.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Fri Feb 18 16:54:04 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings Not necessarily "shouldn't" because if it grows there, it obviously can be there. It just "isn't" in our current version of space/time. Only our judgements are saying whether a plant "should" or "shouldn't" be there. And that is the crux of the biscuit as there are some people whose opinion it is that as long as an organism can survive in a certain environment, it "should" be there, whilst others maintain that if a plant isn't currently there, it "shouldn't" be there. A real Star Trek "Prime Directive" dilemma. But you do hit the nail on the head by pointing out how it seems to be a part of human nature to eliminate organisms from areas where they are happily existing, and in other cases inserting them into areas where they previously haven't been. I still find it amusing when I see home developments in Southern California where they are trying to mimic Florida landscaping, and then I go to Florida and I see developments where they are trying to make them look like the American Southwest! In a message dated 2/18/2005 7:02:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, cteichreb@hotmail.com writes: Seems to be something we as humans are drawn into doing; introducing flora/fauna into places it shouldn't be! TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: pbunch at cox.net (Phil Bunch) Date: Fri Feb 18 17:04:26 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings The problem becomes: who are we to introduce organisms into "natural" habitats? Obviously we can do so but an unfortunate aspect of humans is that we are very good at doing things but very poor at understanding the consequences of the things we chose to do. Phil Bunch -----Original Message----- Of HmrTheHrmt@aol.com Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 4:54 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Not necessarily "shouldn't" because if it grows there, it obviously can be there. It just "isn't" in our current version of space/time. Only our judgements are saying whether a plant "should" or "shouldn't" be there. And that is the crux of the biscuit as there are some people whose opinion it is that as long as an organism can survive in a certain environment, it "should" be there, whilst others maintain that if a plant isn't currently there, it "shouldn't" be there. A real Star Trek "Prime Directive" dilemma. But you do hit the nail on the head by pointing out how it seems to be a part of human nature to eliminate organisms from areas where they are happily existing, and in other cases inserting them into areas where they previously haven't been. I still find it amusing when I see home developments in Southern California where they are trying to mimic Florida landscaping, and then I go to Florida and I see developments where they are trying to make them look like the American Southwest! In a message dated 2/18/2005 7:02:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, cteichreb@hotmail.com writes: Seems to be something we as humans are drawn into doing; introducing flora/fauna into places it shouldn't be! TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.0.0 - Release Date: 2/18/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.0.0 - Release Date: 2/18/2005 ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Fri Feb 18 19:11:29 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings I think the question is not so much "who" we are so much as "what." And that's part of the Ecosystem that the planet earth has developed at this point in its existence. As has been pointed out, organisms have been added to and removed from habitats since time began. Terming something "natural" or "unnatural" simply because it's done by humans is a moral judgement. Organisms have been going extinct and new ones coming into being for millions and millions of years, and there have been a number of major extinction events in earth's history with a subsequent flourishing of new species afterwards. In the history of the planet, what we do today will be irrelevant in a billion years. Whether we are still here or not, whether we've turned the planet into a radioactive dustball or not, the planet will eventually fall into the sun, or get burned up in a supernova, or thrown off into the void of space to drift around as a big snowball. To our immediate descendants what we do will matter a great deal because soon they will never get the chance to see a great ape or a black panther, just as I'll never get to see a dodo or a passenger pigeon. In a message dated 2/18/2005 5:05:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, pbunch@cox.net writes: The problem becomes: who are we to introduce organisms into "natural" habitats? Obviously we can do so but an unfortunate aspect of humans is that we are very good at doing things but very poor at understanding the consequences of the things we chose to do. TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: pbunch at cox.net (Phil Bunch) Date: Sat Feb 19 07:12:26 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings Good and bad, natural and unnatural are indeed human concepts. They involve choice. As members of both social and non-human biological communities it is incumbent on us to make wise and compassionate choices. Wisdom is much under rated of late. Phil -----Original Message----- Of HmrTheHrmt@aol.com Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 7:11 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com I think the question is not so much "who" we are so much as "what." And that's part of the Ecosystem that the planet earth has developed at this point in its existence. As has been pointed out, organisms have been added to and removed from habitats since time began. Terming something "natural" or "unnatural" simply because it's done by humans is a moral judgement. Organisms have been going extinct and new ones coming into being for millions and millions of years, and there have been a number of major extinction events in earth's history with a subsequent flourishing of new species afterwards. In the history of the planet, what we do today will be irrelevant in a billion years. Whether we are still here or not, whether we've turned the planet into a radioactive dustball or not, the planet will eventually fall into the sun, or get burned up in a supernova, or thrown off into the void of space to drift around as a big snowball. To our immediate descendants what we do will matter a great deal because soon they will never get the chance to see a great ape or a black panther, just as I'll never get to see a dodo or a passenger pigeon. In a message dated 2/18/2005 5:05:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, pbunch@cox.net writes: The problem becomes: who are we to introduce organisms into "natural" habitats? Obviously we can do so but an unfortunate aspect of humans is that we are very good at doing things but very poor at understanding the consequences of the things we chose to do. TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.0.0 - Release Date: 2/18/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.0.0 - Release Date: 2/18/2005 ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Sat Feb 19 07:15:40 2005 Subject: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids Dear OL and Steven, I don't know the direct answer to this question, but I do know that not all flowers will produce non-viable seed, most sterile hybrids produce nothing. It seems that sometimes, while the pollen will not be viable or useable, it can still induce a reaction in the female flower. Whether or not this can also help to cause empty seed to develop, I'm not sure. The empty seeds are so small that they are like dust, BTW. Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of o.marthaler@bluewin.ch Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 5:15 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Hi Steven, Not being a botanist at all, I will only mention to you my own and modest experience: Nearly three years ago in the spring, I collected a few droseras x obovatas (?)in a couple of bogs overhere in Western Switzerland, as a young friend of mine was doing a school research in botany about the carnivorous flora of our region. Collecting them was intended to make sure the plants he was studying were not dr. anglica, as the leaves did look quite similar indeed. So those plants later flowered at my place, and, while in the same conditions *definitely sure* dr. rotundifolia and dr. anglica produced seeds (viable, as I sowed them later and they germinated), those dr. obovatas also flowered, but produced NO seeds whatsoever! Thus we deduced they were x obovata indeed... But are ALL x obovata sterile in nature? Sorry we'll have to wait for more expert answers! Just my little brick on the wall! Cheers, OL btw: "your" nep. bical. sown in CH look splendid now ! Thanx again. >Message: 8 >Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 18:42:08 GMT >From: "n.bellii@netzero.net" >Subject: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids >To: Cp@omnisterra.com >Message-ID: <20050216.104236.15672.70344@webmail26.lax.untd.com> >Content-Type: text/plain > > >Hello, > >I've been looking through my some of my cp books, and can't find information >about sterile Drosera hybrids. > >Do most Drosera hybrids set sterile seeds or no seed at all? > >In an article, June 2003 CPN, Ivan Snyder mentions finding underdeveloped >seeds in small amounts, at natural sites of Drosera x obovata as >an example of a hybrid that should not be able to set seed, because of non >viable pollen, and also states this same hybrid as not ever being >documented to produce viable seeds. > >How does formation of non-viable seed take place, in plants that should >not be able to set seed at all? > >Thank you, >Steven Stewart >Florida, USA ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Sat Feb 19 07:33:40 2005 Subject: [CP] Guess the Hybrid Sarracenia Dear Aaron, Picking out the hybrid's parent is never easy, but here goes: http://home.petflytrap.com/users/sarracenia/newcamerapics/uncchybrid1.jpg This one is definitely _S. psittacina * S. flava_, F1 I believe. As for the rest, I think I'll just be mudding the waters further with comment... The guesses already mentioned in the links are what I am thinking of for most of these plants, without actually seeing them in person it is too difficult to tell. Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of Aaron Carlson Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 7:25 AM To: cp@omnisterra.com I created this little web page awhile ago, but never posted it to this list. Just curious as to what everyone thinks the possible parents of these hybrids are. Thanks in advance. http://home.petflytrap.com/users/sarracenia/unknowns.htm ################### From: n.bellii at netzero.net (n.bellii@netzero.net) Date: Sat Feb 19 08:04:48 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Drosera hybrids Thank you! OL, Andreas, Hideka & Ivan, You've given me a lot to think about. It would seem that attempting to "treat" or alter chomosomes in sterile seed from Drosera hybrids would be futile. The species or hybrid plants would need to be the target. OL - I'm glad to hear the Nepenthes bicalcarata "kids" are doing well!! Thank you all again, Steven Stewart Florida, USA ################### From: pyrzynskij at worldnet.att.net (Jim Pyrzynski) Date: Sat Feb 19 08:56:26 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings There is a similar ongoing discussion in the native orchid conference list because of the publication of book on wild orchid (temperate) cultivation. Temperate species of orchids are difficult to grow (at least with the current knowledge) and so cultivation is generally viewed as a no no. I took the liberty of cross posting Harry's comments since they were similar to the ones I expressed on that list. My comments on the subject follows: This is really part of an interesting philosophical question. Is man apart from nature and his (or her) actions interfering with nature or is man a part of nature and doing things that are part of ?his nature?? In addition to that, I find it interesting that ?conservation types? (and I am pro-conservation) are pro such things as establishing peregrine falcons in cities (we have them here in Omaha, Nebraska) even though I doubt they ever nested there because there were no suitable nesting sites before high rise buildings. Or the attempts at establishing alternate flocks of whooping cranes (e.g. over wintering in New Mexico) so as to ensure the continuation of the species in the event of a disastrous hurricane in the historical over wintering area in Texas. And there are other examples - the California Condor efforts, wolves, etc., to say nothing about things done to enhance hunting and fishing (turkeys, and of course nonnative species). Man affects his environment by just existing and breathing, too. Some species increase (e.g. the coyote?s range has expanded probably due to our suppression of the wolf) and some species decrease because of the pressures we put on the environment. I doubt if there is much ?wild? left in the eastern part of the country. We have a nature preserve nearby, virtually all of it was logged at one time, some of it farmed. At the time of Lewis and Clark?s expedition, the ridge tops were savannah, now they are rather heavily forested because of fire suppression. Interesting showy orchis grows in one area that was farmed for corn as recently as 50 years ago and apparently it is declining partly due to the regrowth of the forest. Some orchids thrive in roadside ditches just because of that disturbance. And I suppose one can be thankful for the efforts of man too. I doubt that we would still have Franklinia altamaha, a shrub once found in southeastern Georgia. It was last collected in 1790 but now it continues to grow in gardens. And we in Nebraska are fortunate to have fruit bearing American Chestnuts (Castanea dendata). They escaped the blight that ravaged (and continues to ravage) the species in it natural range because someone (John Sterling Morton, I presume) planted some on his estate, Arbor Lodge, now a state park. Let the discussion go on. Jim Pyrzynski ################### From: wildfyre at gmail.com (Bonnie Dodds) Date: Sat Feb 19 12:52:59 2005 Subject: [CP] Looking for Sarracenia I've been rebuilding my collection slowly but surely. However, one thing is really standing out. I don't have a single adult Sarracenia. I have a few very young seedlings and thats it. Does anyone have any Sarracenia they'd like to part with? I don't have much to trade except for some D. anglica and D. rotundifolia with location data, but my boyfriend has been promising me a late Valentines day gift .. so we'd be able to pay for them. Also, I'd love to find something that might bloom this year. He's never seen a Sarracenia flower before. =) Happy Growing! -Bonnie Anchorage, Alaska USA ################### From: sarracenia at blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Haines) Date: Sat Feb 19 13:07:33 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 19 RE: Non-native CP plantings I must say that I would not plant a plant from my own collection into the wilds. For 100's of year we have planted plants for personal good, food, or just looks (gardens). But as growers we do grow CP's out in gardens, which may be how some of these plants have come from as birds and other animals may taken seed from our gardens and then the rest is history. We also do not know if a plant ever lived in an area at one time or another due to the case that plants do not leave many fossils. Yes I know that some seed and bits can be kept for a long time in acid ( peat ) bogs, and are found from time to time, but has anyone found seed or pollen in the peat from 50, 100, 1000 years ago from small plants like drosera? So as I have never seen or read about a complete history of these places were Non-native CP have now started to be found. As long as there are no bugs that are rare or rare plants in the area, I can not see any harm in keeping the plant there. Remember we have dried out around 80% of land over time, so many bogs that would have had our CP's have gone. We need to have many areas with one type of CP in to save them from dyeing out completely. Best Wishes Alan ******************************** **For the best TV & Radio guide on your PC** http://accounts.digiguide.com/showcase.asp?p=1&r=17484 ******************************** ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 8:11 PM > Send Cp mailing list submissions to > Cp@omnisterra.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > Cp-request@omnisterra.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > Cp-owner@omnisterra.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Cp digest..." > > > CP Mailing list > > Today's Topics: > > 1. RE: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 18 (Barry Rice) > 2. Re: RE: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 18 (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) > 3. Re: Non-native CP plantings (Walter Greenwood) > 4. RE:out of zone (Tre Bond) > 5. RE: Non-native CP plantings (Dave Evans) > 6. Signs of Spring; Tissue Culture of CP'S (Bluemounttc@aol.com) > 7. RE: Re: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids (Hideka Kobayashi) > 8. RE: Re: Non-native CP plantings (Chris Teichreb) > 9. RE: Re: Non-native CP plantings (Harry Pulley) > 10. RE: Drosera hybrids (bioexp@juno.com) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 12:11:32 -0800 > From: "Barry Rice" > Subject: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 18 > To: > Message-ID: <200502172011.j1HKBWIr002304@warsaw.ucdavis.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > Hey Hamir, > > You're only thinking desert. You forget the sky islands and the Mogollon > Rim. Both have perennial acid wetlands that would be quite amenable areas. > Remember that U. macrorhiza and U. minor both occur in Arizona: > http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/g111.html > > Cheers > > Barry > > >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 14:31:37 EST >> From: HmrTheHrmt@aol.com >> Subject: Re: [CP] Non-native CP plantings >> To: Cp@omnisterra.com >> Message-ID: <1c0.2388459c.2f464b19@aol.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >> >> >> >> Since all the parts of Arizona I've seen are desert, I'd >> think the general environment would extirpate any S. purpurea >> in existence. >> >> >> In a message dated 2/17/2005 10:14:19 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, >> bamrice@ucdavis.edu writes: >> >> **S. purpurea in Arizona (probably extirpated by now) > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 16:14:02 EST > From: HmrTheHrmt@aol.com > Subject: Re: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 18 > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <1ec.3504333b.2f46631a@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > Sky islands are... what? Mountain tops or mesas that get significantly > more > rain than the lowlands? Those areas in the photos look pretty far > removed > from civilization, can't imagine anyone took the effort to drag S. > purpurea > seeds up there... (and even less likely whole plants to transplant). We > CP > growers can be a pretty determined bunch, I guess. > > In a message dated 2/17/2005 12:11:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > bamrice@ucdavis.edu writes: > > Hey Hamir, > > You're only thinking desert. You forget the sky islands and the Mogollon > Rim. Both have perennial acid wetlands that would be quite amenable > areas. > Remember that U. macrorhiza and U. minor both occur in Arizona: > http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/g111.html > > Cheers > > Barry > > > > > > > > TTFN > > > Hamir the Hermit > > > "And there you have another example of how, > while life for you is getting bigger and better, > for someone else in the world, > it's getting smaller and worse." > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 18:24:01 -0500 > From: Walter Greenwood > Subject: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <42152791.2090200@nauticom.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > I believe there is a colony of VFTs in central Pennsylvania, too. (I > didn't do it - honest!) > > -WG > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 16:24:13 -0800 (PST) > From: Tre Bond > Subject: [CP] RE:out of zone > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050218002414.61809.qmail@web53302.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Yes I meant 'Naturalized'. I did not count the VFTs in Flrida because > that is common knowledge but I did not know of anyothers besides the ones > here in NE Florida > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 19:32:42 -0500 > From: "Dave Evans" > Subject: [CP] RE: Non-native CP plantings > To: , "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" > > Message-ID: <002c01c51551$5bf786d0$0eada8c0@acstemp20> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Dear Tre, > > > There could be some _Sarracenia_ hybrids involving _S. flava, S. > purpurea venosa_ and _S. oreophila_ in Bloomsburg, PA. (I didn't do it > either, BTW!) Not sure about the VFT. > > > Dave Evans > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On > Behalf > Of Walter Greenwood > Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 6:24 PM > > > I believe there is a colony of VFTs in central Pennsylvania, too. (I > didn't do it - honest!) > > -WG > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 06:36:25 -0500 > From: Bluemounttc@aol.com > Subject: [CP] Signs of Spring; Tissue Culture of CP'S > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <08ABC410.7F46B7F1.364FDA8A@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > While it is icy and snowy outside today here in Maryland, I am happy to > say I have Sarracenia purpurea, S. leucophylla 'Tarnok', and lots of > flytraps sending up flower stalks in my propagation house. Ah, I love this > time of year. > > Is anyone else in this group doing tissue culture of CP's? I'd love to > network with others doing similar work as me. > > Regards, > Bonnie Collins > Monkton, Maryland > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 08:36:38 -0600 > From: "Hideka Kobayashi" > Subject: RE: Re: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > the chromosome set being a mixed number of both parents' sets> > > I think the key here is "some." But then why can a hybrid of two species > with equal chromosome numbers be sterile? The sterility of such hybrids > may > stem from the difference in genomic background of parental species, rather > than chromosome numbers. In other words, chromosomes of one parent may not > pair well with ones from the other parent. > > higher-ploid > set) due to spontaneous mutation.> > > I wouldn't personally call this ( a simple increase in the number of > chormosomes) a "mutation." There could have been, but is there any change > in > gene(s) always or usually associated with polyploidization? > > Also, production of unreduced gametes may be one reason why triploids and > such can produce viable seeds. > > Hideka > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 06:59:42 -0800 > From: "Chris Teichreb" > Subject: RE: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > I've written a note previously published in CPN about a bog near Vancouver > with several introduced and naturalized species. I've also submitted an > article on Darlingtonia introduction on Vancouver Island (though plants > haven't reached maturity yet). I know of a couple other introduced > populations that have successfully naturalized bogs around Vancouver and > Washington. > > Seems to be something we as humans are drawn into doing; introducing > flora/fauna into places it shouldn't be! > > Chris > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:23:53 -0500 (EST) > From: Harry Pulley > Subject: RE: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings > To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > Message-ID: <20050218152353.33727.qmail@web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Overall this is one of the cases where I find it funny > how we separate the activities of man from the > activies of nature. If a bird eats a seed and > migrates a long distance, dropping it far from home > where it flourishes by chance, is it now an alien > species? This has been happening for millions of > years. Somehow, when this happens either accidentally > or on purpose in connection with humans, we call it > the wanton destruction of native ecosystems. > > Species have been moved and made extinct since the > beginning of life on the planet. Humans are > particularly good at it but it is nothing new and > certainly nothing modern. > > I commend people for conservation efforts and I think > it is a good idea to only plant native species in your > outdoor garden anyways; that way you don't need to > offer them special winter protection. Eg. if I plant > on S. purpurea, D. rotundiflora and D. intermedia then > not only am I not introducing alien species, but > they'll grow fine since my yard is in their native > zone! There is a nice native plant nursery around > here offering not just CPs but many others which is a > nice way to garden. > > Harry Pulley > Guelph, Ontario, Canada > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 17:57:12 GMT > From: "bioexp@juno.com" > Subject: [CP] RE: Drosera hybrids > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050218.095741.14013.103730@webmail33.nyc.untd.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > > Hello Steven, Andreas, and all, > I must warn that the following reply may prove extraordinarily technical. > Only those initiated in such apocrypha should continue. > Most sterile hybrid sundews do not set seed at all Steven. Although > one common natural hybrid, triploid D. x obovata, may produce a few > *apparently* well formed seed. In my article I cite other papers that > tell, "all North American Drosera hybrids are sterile". Experimentation > proved that in a rare case tetraploid D. x obovata are at least slightly > fertile. > I'll try to explain how the common sterile triploid is able to produce > a few nonviable seed: As Schnell pointed out, the sterile plant's pollen > grains contain no starch and so are unable to grow pollen tubes. Perhaps a > few do cantain some starch? Still, even if fertilization is achieved, > there is that chromosome mismatch as Andreas elaborated. And remember, > chromosome cross-over (Chiasmata) does not occur at fertilization; only at > meiosis. Hope that helps! > Ivan Snyder > Hermosa Beach > California > >>I've been looking through my some of my cp books, and can't find >>information about sterile Drosera hybrids. > Do most Drosera hybrids set sterile seeds or no seed at all? > Ivan Snyders article in the June 2003 CPN, mentions Drosera x obovata as > an example of a hybrid that should not be able to set seed, because of non > viable pollen, but also states this same hybrid as not ever being > documented to produce viable seeds. The same article Ivan mentions finding > underdeveloped seeds in small amounts, at natural sites of this hybrid. > How does formation of non-viable seed take place, in plants that should > not be able to set seed at all? > Thank you, > Steven Stewart > Florida, USA > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. > Now includes pop-up blocker! > Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > End of Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 19 > ********************************** > > ################### From: sarracenia at blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Haines) Date: Sat Feb 19 13:25:54 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Non-native CP plantings > RE: Non-native CP plantings > > I must say that I would not plant a plant from my own collection into the > wilds. > > For 100's of year we have planted plants for personal good, food, or just > looks (gardens). > But as growers we do grow CP's out in gardens, which may be how some of > these plants have come from as birds and other animals may taken seed from > our gardens and then the rest is history. > > We also do not know if a plant ever lived in an area at one time or > another due to the case that plants do not leave > many fossils. Yes I know that some seed and bits can be kept for a long > time in acid ( peat ) bogs, and are found from time to time, but has > anyone found seed or pollen in the peat from 50, 100, 1000 years ago from > small plants like drosera? > So as I have never seen or read about a complete history of these places > were Non-native CP have now started to be found. > As long as there are no bugs that are rare or rare plants in the area, I > can not see any harm in keeping the plant there. > Remember we have dried out around 80% of land over time, so many bogs that > would have had our CP's have gone. > We need to have many areas with one type of CP in to save them from dyeing > out completely. > > > > Best Wishes Alan > ******************************** > **For the best TV & Radio guide on your PC** > http://accounts.digiguide.com/showcase.asp?p=1&r=17484 > ******************************** > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 8:11 PM > Subject: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 19 > > >> Send Cp mailing list submissions to >> Cp@omnisterra.com >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> Cp-request@omnisterra.com >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> Cp-owner@omnisterra.com >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Cp digest..." >> >> >> CP Mailing list >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. RE: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 18 (Barry Rice) >> 2. Re: RE: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 18 (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) >> 3. Re: Non-native CP plantings (Walter Greenwood) >> 4. RE:out of zone (Tre Bond) >> 5. RE: Non-native CP plantings (Dave Evans) >> 6. Signs of Spring; Tissue Culture of CP'S (Bluemounttc@aol.com) >> 7. RE: Re: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids (Hideka Kobayashi) >> 8. RE: Re: Non-native CP plantings (Chris Teichreb) >> 9. RE: Re: Non-native CP plantings (Harry Pulley) >> 10. RE: Drosera hybrids (bioexp@juno.com) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 12:11:32 -0800 >> From: "Barry Rice" >> Subject: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 18 >> To: >> Message-ID: <200502172011.j1HKBWIr002304@warsaw.ucdavis.edu> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> >> >> Hey Hamir, >> >> You're only thinking desert. You forget the sky islands and the Mogollon >> Rim. Both have perennial acid wetlands that would be quite amenable >> areas. >> Remember that U. macrorhiza and U. minor both occur in Arizona: >> http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/g111.html >> >> Cheers >> >> Barry >> >> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 4 >>> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 14:31:37 EST >>> From: HmrTheHrmt@aol.com >>> Subject: Re: [CP] Non-native CP plantings >>> To: Cp@omnisterra.com >>> Message-ID: <1c0.2388459c.2f464b19@aol.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >>> >>> >>> >>> Since all the parts of Arizona I've seen are desert, I'd >>> think the general environment would extirpate any S. purpurea >>> in existence. >>> >>> >>> In a message dated 2/17/2005 10:14:19 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, >>> bamrice@ucdavis.edu writes: >>> >>> **S. purpurea in Arizona (probably extirpated by now) >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 16:14:02 EST >> From: HmrTheHrmt@aol.com >> Subject: Re: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 18 >> To: Cp@omnisterra.com >> Message-ID: <1ec.3504333b.2f46631a@aol.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >> >> >> >> Sky islands are... what? Mountain tops or mesas that get significantly >> more >> rain than the lowlands? Those areas in the photos look pretty far >> removed >> from civilization, can't imagine anyone took the effort to drag S. >> purpurea >> seeds up there... (and even less likely whole plants to transplant). We >> CP >> growers can be a pretty determined bunch, I guess. >> >> In a message dated 2/17/2005 12:11:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, >> bamrice@ucdavis.edu writes: >> >> Hey Hamir, >> >> You're only thinking desert. You forget the sky islands and the Mogollon >> Rim. Both have perennial acid wetlands that would be quite amenable >> areas. >> Remember that U. macrorhiza and U. minor both occur in Arizona: >> http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/g111.html >> >> Cheers >> >> Barry >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> TTFN >> >> >> Hamir the Hermit >> >> >> "And there you have another example of how, >> while life for you is getting bigger and better, >> for someone else in the world, >> it's getting smaller and worse." >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 18:24:01 -0500 >> From: Walter Greenwood >> Subject: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings >> To: Cp@omnisterra.com >> Message-ID: <42152791.2090200@nauticom.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> I believe there is a colony of VFTs in central Pennsylvania, too. (I >> didn't do it - honest!) >> >> -WG >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 16:24:13 -0800 (PST) >> From: Tre Bond >> Subject: [CP] RE:out of zone >> To: Cp@omnisterra.com >> Message-ID: <20050218002414.61809.qmail@web53302.mail.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Yes I meant 'Naturalized'. I did not count the VFTs in Flrida because >> that is common knowledge but I did not know of anyothers besides the ones >> here in NE Florida >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 19:32:42 -0500 >> From: "Dave Evans" >> Subject: [CP] RE: Non-native CP plantings >> To: , "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" >> >> Message-ID: <002c01c51551$5bf786d0$0eada8c0@acstemp20> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Dear Tre, >> >> >> There could be some _Sarracenia_ hybrids involving _S. flava, S. >> purpurea venosa_ and _S. oreophila_ in Bloomsburg, PA. (I didn't do it >> either, BTW!) Not sure about the VFT. >> >> >> Dave Evans >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On >> Behalf >> Of Walter Greenwood >> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 6:24 PM >> >> >> I believe there is a colony of VFTs in central Pennsylvania, too. (I >> didn't do it - honest!) >> >> -WG >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 06:36:25 -0500 >> From: Bluemounttc@aol.com >> Subject: [CP] Signs of Spring; Tissue Culture of CP'S >> To: Cp@omnisterra.com >> Message-ID: <08ABC410.7F46B7F1.364FDA8A@aol.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> While it is icy and snowy outside today here in Maryland, I am happy to >> say I have Sarracenia purpurea, S. leucophylla 'Tarnok', and lots of >> flytraps sending up flower stalks in my propagation house. Ah, I love >> this time of year. >> >> Is anyone else in this group doing tissue culture of CP's? I'd love to >> network with others doing similar work as me. >> >> Regards, >> Bonnie Collins >> Monkton, Maryland >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 7 >> Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 08:36:38 -0600 >> From: "Hideka Kobayashi" >> Subject: RE: Re: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids >> To: Cp@omnisterra.com >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >> >> > to >> the chromosome set being a mixed number of both parents' sets> >> >> I think the key here is "some." But then why can a hybrid of two species >> with equal chromosome numbers be sterile? The sterility of such hybrids >> may >> stem from the difference in genomic background of parental species, >> rather >> than chromosome numbers. In other words, chromosomes of one parent may >> not >> pair well with ones from the other parent. >> >> > higher-ploid >> set) due to spontaneous mutation.> >> >> I wouldn't personally call this ( a simple increase in the number of >> chormosomes) a "mutation." There could have been, but is there any change >> in >> gene(s) always or usually associated with polyploidization? >> >> Also, production of unreduced gametes may be one reason why triploids and >> such can produce viable seeds. >> >> Hideka >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 8 >> Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 06:59:42 -0800 >> From: "Chris Teichreb" >> Subject: RE: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings >> To: Cp@omnisterra.com >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >> >> I've written a note previously published in CPN about a bog near >> Vancouver >> with several introduced and naturalized species. I've also submitted an >> article on Darlingtonia introduction on Vancouver Island (though plants >> haven't reached maturity yet). I know of a couple other introduced >> populations that have successfully naturalized bogs around Vancouver and >> Washington. >> >> Seems to be something we as humans are drawn into doing; introducing >> flora/fauna into places it shouldn't be! >> >> Chris >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 9 >> Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:23:53 -0500 (EST) >> From: Harry Pulley >> Subject: RE: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings >> To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group >> Message-ID: <20050218152353.33727.qmail@web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Overall this is one of the cases where I find it funny >> how we separate the activities of man from the >> activies of nature. If a bird eats a seed and >> migrates a long distance, dropping it far from home >> where it flourishes by chance, is it now an alien >> species? This has been happening for millions of >> years. Somehow, when this happens either accidentally >> or on purpose in connection with humans, we call it >> the wanton destruction of native ecosystems. >> >> Species have been moved and made extinct since the >> beginning of life on the planet. Humans are >> particularly good at it but it is nothing new and >> certainly nothing modern. >> >> I commend people for conservation efforts and I think >> it is a good idea to only plant native species in your >> outdoor garden anyways; that way you don't need to >> offer them special winter protection. Eg. if I plant >> on S. purpurea, D. rotundiflora and D. intermedia then >> not only am I not introducing alien species, but >> they'll grow fine since my yard is in their native >> zone! There is a nice native plant nursery around >> here offering not just CPs but many others which is a >> nice way to garden. >> >> Harry Pulley >> Guelph, Ontario, Canada >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 10 >> Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 17:57:12 GMT >> From: "bioexp@juno.com" >> Subject: [CP] RE: Drosera hybrids >> To: Cp@omnisterra.com >> Message-ID: <20050218.095741.14013.103730@webmail33.nyc.untd.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain >> >> >> Hello Steven, Andreas, and all, >> I must warn that the following reply may prove extraordinarily technical. >> Only those initiated in such apocrypha should continue. >> Most sterile hybrid sundews do not set seed at all Steven. Although >> one common natural hybrid, triploid D. x obovata, may produce a few >> *apparently* well formed seed. In my article I cite other papers that >> tell, "all North American Drosera hybrids are sterile". Experimentation >> proved that in a rare case tetraploid D. x obovata are at least slightly >> fertile. >> I'll try to explain how the common sterile triploid is able to >> produce a few nonviable seed: As Schnell pointed out, the sterile plant's >> pollen grains contain no starch and so are unable to grow pollen tubes. >> Perhaps a few do cantain some starch? Still, even if fertilization is >> achieved, there is that chromosome mismatch as Andreas elaborated. And >> remember, chromosome cross-over (Chiasmata) does not occur at >> fertilization; only at meiosis. Hope that helps! >> Ivan Snyder >> Hermosa Beach >> California >> >>>I've been looking through my some of my cp books, and can't find >>>information about sterile Drosera hybrids. >> Do most Drosera hybrids set sterile seeds or no seed at all? >> Ivan Snyders article in the June 2003 CPN, mentions Drosera x obovata as >> an example of a hybrid that should not be able to set seed, because of >> non viable pollen, but also states this same hybrid as not ever being >> documented to produce viable seeds. The same article Ivan mentions >> finding underdeveloped seeds in small amounts, at natural sites of this >> hybrid. How does formation of non-viable seed take place, in plants that >> should not be able to set seed at all? >> Thank you, >> Steven Stewart >> Florida, USA >> >> >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. >> Now includes pop-up blocker! >> Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Cp mailing list >> Cp@omnisterra.com >> http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com >> >> >> End of Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 19 >> ********************************** >> >> > ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Sat Feb 19 19:13:16 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings well, even though i might not be as educated as some of you other fine fellows i think the people who have that crazy lets go interduce a tiger to central massachusetts sickness( reffering to the whole human nature thing, as like interduceing cps to places they dont belong thing) should i think "hold" themselves over to just makeing a contained bog garden in their back yard and not to dump a cp in the nearest park etc... for the man with the tiger, im not so sure. thats my 2 cents ----- Original Message ----- To: Cp@omnisterra.com > > Send Cp mailing list submissions to > Cp@omnisterra.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > Cp-request@omnisterra.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > Cp-owner@omnisterra.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Cp digest..." > > > CP Mailing list > > Today's Topics: > > 1. re:necps (jon mungeam) > 2. Arizona sky islands (Barry Rice) > 3. Re: Arizona sky islands (Christopher Hind) > 4. Re: Re: Non-native CP plantings (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) > 5. RE: Re: Non-native CP plantings (Phil Bunch) > 6. Re: Re: Non-native CP plantings (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) > 7. RE: Re: Non-native CP plantings (Phil Bunch) > 8. RE: Sterile Drosera hybrids (Dave Evans) > 9. RE: Guess the Hybrid Sarracenia (Dave Evans) > 10. RE: Drosera hybrids (n.bellii@netzero.net) > 11. Re: Non-native CP plantings (Jim Pyrzynski) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 04:36:36 +0800 > From: "jon mungeam" > Subject: [CP] re:necps > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050218203636.75DE11027BE@ws3.hk5.outblaze.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > thanks Jeremiah, ill be sending out postage soon! > -- > _______________________________________________ > Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 12:38:28 -0800 > From: "Barry Rice" > Subject: [CP] Arizona sky islands > To: > Message-ID: <200502182038.j1IKcSAl005276@warsaw.ucdavis.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > Hi Hamir, > > Yes, "sky islands" is a term that refers to high elevation mountains in the > desert southwest. These mountaintops may be only a few tens of miles from > other mountains, but since they are separated by desert lowlands, the > mountaintops (which may be a climate more similar to Canada) has isolated > ecosystems. Speciation occurs, and local endemic species or taxa can result. > > Even though sites can be remote, people are determined, as you note. This > makes it even more difficult to figure out which introductions are > anthropogenic in origin. In the case I'm talking about in Arizona, the > original perpetrator admited to me what he had done. I visited the site a > few times, but was never able to find the Sarracenia. > > Later! > > Barry > > Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. > Director of Conservation Programs > The International Carnivorous Plant Society > http://www.carnivorousplants.org > > > Sky islands are... what? Mountain tops or mesas that get > > significantly more rain than the lowlands? Those areas in the > > photos look pretty far removed from civilization, can't imagine > > anyone took the effort to drag S. purpurea seeds up there... > > (and even less likely whole plants to transplant). We CP > > growers can be a pretty determined bunch, I guess. In a message > > dated 2/17/2005 12:11:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > > bamrice@ucdavis.edu writes: > > > > Hey Hamir, > > > > You're only thinking desert. You forget the sky islands and the > > Mogollon Rim. Both have perennial acid wetlands that would be > > quite amenable areas. > > Remember that U. macrorhiza and U. minor both occur in Arizona: > > http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/g111.html > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:00:56 -0800 (PST) > From: Christopher Hind > Subject: Re: [CP] Arizona sky islands > To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > Message-ID: <20050218210056.87165.qmail@web54108.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > wow sarracenia in arizona? i thought someone was > pulling my leg. > > --- Barry Rice wrote: > > > > > Hi Hamir, > > > > Yes, "sky islands" is a term that refers to high > > elevation mountains in the > > desert southwest. These mountaintops may be only a > > few tens of miles from > > other mountains, but since they are separated by > > desert lowlands, the > > mountaintops (which may be a climate more similar to > > Canada) has isolated > > ecosystems. Speciation occurs, and local endemic > > species or taxa can result. > > > > Even though sites can be remote, people are > > determined, as you note. This > > makes it even more difficult to figure out which > > introductions are > > anthropogenic in origin. In the case I'm talking > > about in Arizona, the > > original perpetrator admited to me what he had done. > > I visited the site a > > few times, but was never able to find the > > Sarracenia. Later! > > > > Barry > > > > Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. > > Director of Conservation Programs > > The International Carnivorous Plant Society > > http://www.carnivorousplants.org > > > > > Sky islands are... what? Mountain tops or mesas > > that get > significantly more rain than the lowlands? Those > > areas in > the photos look pretty far removed from > > civilization, can't > imagine anyone took the effort to drag S. > > purpurea seeds up > there... (and even less likely whole plants > > to transplant). > We CP growers can be a pretty determined > > bunch, I > > guess. > > In a message dated 2/17/2005 12:11:54 P.M. Pacific > > Standard > Time, bamrice@ucdavis.edu writes: > > > > Hey Hamir, > > > > You're only thinking desert. You forget the sky > > islands and > the Mogollon Rim. Both have perennial acid > > wetlands that > would be quite amenable areas. > > > Remember that U. macrorhiza and U. minor both > > occur in Arizona: > > > http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/g111.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cp mailing list > > Cp@omnisterra.com > > > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 19:53:45 EST > From: HmrTheHrmt@aol.com > Subject: Re: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <12f.573adbbc.2f47e819@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > Not necessarily "shouldn't" because if it grows there, it obviously can be > there. It just "isn't" in our current version of space/time. Only our > judgements are saying whether a plant "should" or "shouldn't" be > there. And that > is the crux of the biscuit as there are some people whose opinion it is that > as long as an organism can survive in a certain environment, it "should" be > there, whilst others maintain that if a plant isn't currently there, it > "shouldn't" be there. A real Star Trek "Prime Directive" dilemma. > > But you do hit the nail on the head by pointing out how it seems to be a > part of human nature to eliminate organisms from areas where they are happily > existing, and in other cases inserting them into areas where they previously > haven't been. I still find it amusing when I see home developments > in Southern > California where they are trying to mimic Florida landscaping, and then I go > to Florida and I see developments where they are trying to make them look > like the American Southwest! > > > In a message dated 2/18/2005 7:02:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > cteichreb@hotmail.com writes: > > Seems to be something we as humans are drawn into doing; introducing > flora/fauna into places it shouldn't be! > > > > > > > > TTFN > > > Hamir the Hermit > > > "And there you have another example of how, > while life for you is getting bigger and better, > for someone else in the world, > it's getting smaller and worse." > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 17:04:14 -0800 > From: "Phil Bunch" > Subject: RE: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings > To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" > Message-ID: <20050219010414.LWW5953.fed1rmmtao05.cox.net@laptop> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" > > The problem becomes: who are we to introduce organisms into "natural" > habitats? Obviously we can do so but an unfortunate aspect of humans is that > we are very good at doing things but very poor at understanding the > consequences of the things we chose to do. > > Phil Bunch > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On Behalf > Of HmrTheHrmt@aol.com > Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 4:54 PM > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Subject: Re: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings > > > > Not necessarily "shouldn't" because if it grows there, it obviously can be > there. It just "isn't" in our current version of space/time. Only our > judgements are saying whether a plant "should" or "shouldn't" be there. > And that > is the crux of the biscuit as there are some people whose opinion it is > that > as long as an organism can survive in a certain environment, it "should" be > > there, whilst others maintain that if a plant isn't currently there, it > "shouldn't" be there. A real Star Trek "Prime Directive" dilemma. > > But you do hit the nail on the head by pointing out how it seems to be a > part of human nature to eliminate organisms from areas where they are > happily > existing, and in other cases inserting them into areas where they previously > > haven't been. I still find it amusing when I see home developments in > Southern > California where they are trying to mimic Florida landscaping, and then I > go > to Florida and I see developments where they are trying to make them look > like the American Southwest! > > > In a message dated 2/18/2005 7:02:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > cteichreb@hotmail.com writes: > > Seems to be something we as humans are drawn into doing; introducing > flora/fauna into places it shouldn't be! > > > > > > > > TTFN > > > Hamir the Hermit > > > "And there you have another example of how, > while life for you is getting bigger and better, > for someone else in the world, > it's getting smaller and worse." > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.0.0 - Release Date: 2/18/2005 > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.0.0 - Release Date: 2/18/2005 > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 22:11:05 EST > From: HmrTheHrmt@aol.com > Subject: Re: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <81.21ba7111.2f480849@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > I think the question is not so much "who" we are so much as "what." And > that's part of the Ecosystem that the planet earth has developed > at this point > in its existence. As has been pointed out, organisms have been added to and > removed from habitats since time began. Terming something "natural" or > "unnatural" simply because it's done by humans is a moral > judgement. Organisms > have been going extinct and new ones coming into being for millions and > millions of years, and there have been a number of major extinction events in > earth's history with a subsequent flourishing of new species > afterwards. In the > history of the planet, what we do today will be irrelevant in a > billion years. > Whether we are still here or not, whether we've turned the planet into a > radioactive dustball or not, the planet will eventually fall into the sun, or > get burned up in a supernova, or thrown off into the void of space to drift > around as a big snowball. To our immediate descendants what we do > will matter a > great deal because soon they will never get the chance to see a great ape or > a black panther, just as I'll never get to see a dodo or a passenger pigeon. > > In a message dated 2/18/2005 5:05:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > pbunch@cox.net writes: > > The problem becomes: who are we to introduce organisms into "natural" > habitats? Obviously we can do so but an unfortunate aspect of humans is that > we are very good at doing things but very poor at understanding the > consequences of the things we chose to do. > > > > > > > > TTFN > > > Hamir the Hermit > > > "And there you have another example of how, > while life for you is getting bigger and better, > for someone else in the world, > it's getting smaller and worse." > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 07:12:20 -0800 > From: "Phil Bunch" > Subject: RE: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings > To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" > Message-ID: <20050219151219.HLUD18442.fed1rmmtao09.cox.net@laptop> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" > > Good and bad, natural and unnatural are indeed human concepts. They involve > choice. As members of both social and non-human biological communities it is > incumbent on us to make wise and compassionate choices. Wisdom is much under > rated of late. > > Phil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On Behalf > Of HmrTheHrmt@aol.com > Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 7:11 PM > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Subject: Re: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings > > > > I think the question is not so much "who" we are so much as "what." And > that's part of the Ecosystem that the planet earth has developed at this > point > in its existence. As has been pointed out, organisms have been added to > and > removed from habitats since time began. Terming something "natural" or > "unnatural" simply because it's done by humans is a moral judgement. > Organisms > have been going extinct and new ones coming into being for millions and > millions of years, and there have been a number of major extinction events > in > earth's history with a subsequent flourishing of new species afterwards. > In the > history of the planet, what we do today will be irrelevant in a billion > years. > Whether we are still here or not, whether we've turned the planet into a > radioactive dustball or not, the planet will eventually fall into the sun, > or > get burned up in a supernova, or thrown off into the void of space to drift > > around as a big snowball. To our immediate descendants what we do will > matter a > great deal because soon they will never get the chance to see a great ape > or > a black panther, just as I'll never get to see a dodo or a passenger > pigeon. > > In a message dated 2/18/2005 5:05:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > pbunch@cox.net writes: > > The problem becomes: who are we to introduce organisms into "natural" > habitats? Obviously we can do so but an unfortunate aspect of humans is > that > we are very good at doing things but very poor at understanding the > consequences of the things we chose to do. > > > > > > > > TTFN > > > Hamir the Hermit > > > "And there you have another example of how, > while life for you is getting bigger and better, > for someone else in the world, > it's getting smaller and worse." > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.0.0 - Release Date: 2/18/2005 > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.0.0 - Release Date: 2/18/2005 > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 10:15:31 -0500 > From: "Dave Evans" > Subject: RE: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids > To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" > Message-ID: <001701c51695$da54b5d0$22aba8c0@acsots06> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Dear OL and Steven, > > > I don't know the direct answer to this question, but I do know that > not all flowers will produce non-viable seed, most sterile hybrids produce > nothing. It seems that sometimes, while the pollen will not be viable or > useable, it can still induce a reaction in the female flower. Whether or > not this can also help to cause empty seed to develop, I'm not sure. The > empty seeds are so small that they are like dust, BTW. > > > Dave Evans > New Jersey, USA > www.Dangerousplants.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On Behalf > Of o.marthaler@bluewin.ch > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 5:15 PM > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Subject: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids > > > Hi Steven, > > Not being a botanist at all, I will only mention to you my own and modest > experience: > > Nearly three years ago in the spring, I collected a few droseras x obovatas > (?)in a couple of bogs overhere in Western Switzerland, as a young friend > of mine was doing a school research in botany about the carnivorous flora > of our region. Collecting them was intended to make sure the plants he was > studying were not dr. anglica, as the leaves did look quite similar indeed. > > So those plants later flowered at my place, and, while in the same > conditions > *definitely sure* dr. rotundifolia and dr. anglica produced seeds (viable, > as I sowed them later and they germinated), those dr. obovatas also > flowered, > but produced NO seeds whatsoever! Thus we deduced they were x obovata > indeed... > > > But are ALL x obovata sterile in nature? Sorry we'll have to wait for more > expert answers! > > Just my little brick on the wall! > > Cheers, > > OL > > btw: "your" nep. bical. sown in CH look splendid now ! Thanx again. > > > Message: 8 > > Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 18:42:08 GMT > > From: "n.bellii@netzero.net" > > Subject: [CP] Sterile Drosera hybrids > > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > > Message-ID: <20050216.104236.15672.70344@webmail26.lax.untd.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain > > > > > > Hello, > > > > I've been looking through my some of my cp books, and can't find > information > > about sterile Drosera hybrids. > > > > Do most Drosera hybrids set sterile seeds or no seed at all? > > > > In an article, June 2003 CPN, Ivan Snyder mentions finding underdeveloped > > seeds in small amounts, at natural sites of Drosera x obovata as > > an example of a hybrid that should not be able to set seed, because of non > > viable pollen, and also states this same hybrid as not ever being > > documented to produce viable seeds. > > > > How does formation of non-viable seed take place, in plants that should > > not be able to set seed at all? Thank you, > > Steven Stewart > > Florida, USA > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 10:33:31 -0500 > From: "Dave Evans" > Subject: RE: [CP] Guess the Hybrid Sarracenia > To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" > Message-ID: <001801c51698$5e22b4a0$22aba8c0@acsots06> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Dear Aaron, > > > Picking out the hybrid's parent is never easy, but here goes: > > http://home.petflytrap.com/users/sarracenia/newcamerapics/uncchybrid1.jpg > This one is definitely _S. psittacina * S. flava_, F1 I believe. > > As for the rest, I think I'll just be mudding the waters further > with comment... The guesses already mentioned in the links are what I am > thinking of for most of these plants, without actually seeing them in person > it is too difficult to tell. > > > Dave Evans > New Jersey, USA > www.Dangerousplants.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On Behalf > Of Aaron Carlson > Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 7:25 AM > To: cp@omnisterra.com > Subject: [CP] Guess the Hybrid Sarracenia > > I created this little web page awhile ago, but never posted it to this list. > Just curious as to what everyone thinks the possible parents of these > hybrids are. Thanks in advance. > > http://home.petflytrap.com/users/sarracenia/unknowns.htm > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 16:03:53 GMT > From: "n.bellii@netzero.net" > Subject: [CP] RE: Drosera hybrids > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050219.080424.5406.115941@webmail01.lax.untd.com> > Content-Type: text/plain > > > > Thank you! OL, Andreas, Hideka & Ivan, > > You've given me a lot to think about. It would seem that attempting > to "treat" or alter chomosomes in sterile seed from Drosera hybrids > would be futile. The species or hybrid plants would need to be the > target. > > OL - I'm glad to hear the Nepenthes bicalcarata "kids" are doing well!! > > Thank you all again, > > Steven Stewart > Florida, USA > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 11:00:56 -0600 > From: Jim Pyrzynski > Subject: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings > To: carnivorous plants > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" > > There is a similar ongoing discussion in the native orchid conference list > because of the publication of book on wild orchid (temperate) cultivation. > Temperate species of orchids are difficult to grow (at least with the > current knowledge) and so cultivation is generally viewed as a no no. I took > the liberty of cross posting Harry's comments since they were similar to the > ones I expressed on that list. My comments on the subject follows: > > This is really part of an interesting philosophical question. Is man apart > from nature and his (or her) actions interfering with nature or is man a > part of nature and doing things that are part of ?his nature?? > > In addition to that, I find it interesting that ?conservation types? (and I > am pro-conservation) are pro such things as establishing peregrine falcons > in cities (we have them here in Omaha, Nebraska) even though I doubt they > ever nested there because there were no suitable nesting sites before high > rise buildings. Or the attempts at establishing alternate flocks of whooping > cranes (e.g. over wintering in New Mexico) so as to ensure the continuation > of the species in the event of a disastrous hurricane in the historical over > wintering area in Texas. And there are other examples - the California > Condor efforts, wolves, etc., to say nothing about things done to enhance > hunting and fishing (turkeys, and of course nonnative species). > > Man affects his environment by just existing and breathing, too. Some > species increase (e.g. the coyote?s range has expanded probably due to our > suppression of the wolf) and some species decrease because of the pressures > we put on the environment. > > I doubt if there is much ?wild? left in the eastern part of the country. We > have a nature preserve nearby, virtually all of it was logged at one time, > some of it farmed. At the time of Lewis and Clark?s expedition, the ridge > tops were savannah, now they are rather heavily forested because of fire > suppression. Interesting showy orchis grows in one area that was farmed for > corn as recently as 50 years ago and apparently it is declining partly due > to the regrowth of the forest. Some orchids thrive in roadside ditches just > because of that disturbance. > > And I suppose one can be thankful for the efforts of man too. I doubt that > we would still have Franklinia altamaha, a shrub once found in southeastern > Georgia. It was last collected in 1790 but now it continues to grow in > gardens. And we in Nebraska are fortunate to have fruit bearing American > Chestnuts (Castanea dendata). They escaped the blight that ravaged (and > continues to ravage) the species in it natural range because someone (John > Sterling Morton, I presume) planted some on his estate, Arbor Lodge, now a > state park. > > Let the discussion go on. > > Jim Pyrzynski > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > End of Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 20 > ********************************** -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Sat Feb 19 21:43:16 2005 Subject: [CP] Want: U. minor Any one have US native bladderwort U. minor? Wolf ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sun Feb 20 14:12:31 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: non-natives/life tree A question I have is why would nayone spend the time, money, or effort to introduce non-native cps? If it is successful it will take quite a few plants planted in good (and usually fairly inaccessable) places. And wouldn't they think that others (conservationists) would remove these plants? At least I have not got any reports of people introducing D. capensis or spatulata. Ivan and others, I do not know how reliable this is but on CSI they mentioned the life-tree (of some african tribe) is a bush/shrub that is pollinated by beetles. Tre ################### From: meadow at bealenet.com (meadow@bealenet.com) Date: Sun Feb 20 15:55:38 2005 Subject: [CP] seepage wetland symposium Hi Everyone: I want to invite you to attend our symposium on seepage wetlands which will be held on Friday, March 11. There is no charge to attend. We have some noteworthy speakers and I think you will find the topics interesting. More info. can be found on the EVENTS link on our web site at www.pitcherplant.org. Hope to see you there! Sincerely, Phil Sheridan Director Meadowview Biological Research Station http://www.bealenet.com ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Sun Feb 20 18:04:44 2005 Subject: [CP] CP conservation in florida Anyone on the list involved in conservation of CP in the wild in florida? I'm particularly interested in a patch of d. capillaris ive been told is planted in big cypress swamp in south florida. I should be relocated here completely by the middle of march. Finally getting closer to living out my dream of being able to grow CP in my backyard. ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 20 20:40:03 2005 Subject: [CP] CP conservation in florida Judging by the level of rain we're getting here in California right now, you might as well have stayed here. I think we've broken the 30" mark by now.... In a message dated 2/20/2005 6:04:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, cixcell@yahoo.com writes: Finally getting closer to living out my dream of being able to grow CP in my backyard. TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: stovehouse at earthlink.net (Michael Hunt) Date: Mon Feb 21 06:00:45 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <12f.573adbbc.2f47e819@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII I still find it amusing when I see home developments in Southern California where they are trying to mimic Florida landscaping, and then I go to Florida and I see developments where they are trying to make them look like the American Southwest! ..In Florida this isn't as odd as it sounds regarding landscaping with plants from the SW or the desert areas of parts of Mexico. Florida host a good selection of native cactus & succulents, as well as Cuba and the Caribbean basin. The climate is very similar to eastern Mexico along the gulf and on the western Pacific coast , down the Baja. Peninsula Florida, especially along the coastal regions has for the most very quick draining sand, in many places that is the entire soil content. It can rain a couple of inches almost daily an by the dawn of the next day the sandy soil is completely dry to the point where you could stick your fingers down a few inches and detect no moisture at all from the day before downpour. Take a hike down the what is left of the Florida ridge down the spine of Central Florida in June, it is blistering hot and though humid it resembles the desert in both flora & fauna. You will think you are in the Sonora desert. Yet amongst this sandy series of dunes along US 27 there are areas where wet areas remain and Drosera can be found. Most of this region is destroyed to agriculture an now suburban sprawl to the north west of Disney World Extreme south Florida's main soil base is a rock hard layer of limestone that in places rises to the surface in other places such as the Everglades there are large pockets of decaying plant matter as peat. None the less the Everglades has a lot of ground that is alkaline. The nature of this soil make up repels water when it falls it is very very hard to dig into, just like solid rock. There are rare native Ceres growing on shell mounds directly along the west gulf coast north to Tampa Bay. To the south towards Cuba you pick up not just the Melocactus family but also Mammillaria, all native cacti to these humid sub & tropical climates. Florida has many native Opuntia species as well. In fact if you went around the globe looking at climates you will find that Florida is the oddity climate wise. For all other land areas at this latitude are dry/deserts. Florida is the oddity due to the large bodies of water on both sides of the narrow peninsula. These bodies of water cause a clash of airmass's in the summer allowing creation of violent afternoon thunderstorms and that is all that keeps peninsula Florida from being a desert. When the temperatures drop and the water temperature drops in the winter these thunderstorms cease. Florida becomes a very dry region where only the occasional cold front provides a little rain. If not for the Atlantic and gulf of Mexico Florida's climate & landscape would be close to that of the Chihuahua desert in Mexico at the same elevation. However, given the summertime rainy period causes Florida not to be a dry desert like climate this is also due to the very high humidity that most cacti & some succulents like the Lithops detest. During the summer period it is hard to keep many types of cacti in pots from scaring due to the high humidity and frequent rainfall. Thus cacti from the Baja Peninsula do very well in most of Florida, which to a point is very similar to Florida humidity wise due to the Pacific and gulf of California. If you were to visit southeastern Texas you will find a similar summertime climate to Florida, in the winter this area even gets more rain regularly than Florida and a plethora of cacti & succulent species lives here to include the Peyote button, and other of the rock cacti types that hate to much water in a pot & are known for growing extremely dry. In my own case we receive much less summertime rains compared to the inland areas. On the coast the storms are blown away inland. My cacti and succulents overall do very well, the best ones are directly planted into the ground. In fact they cause much less problems in maintaining and care than the Sarracenia. It is a strange sight indeed to see a N. bicalcarata sitting next to a large golden barrel cactus on a July afternoon both growing extremely nice. The State of Florida encourages plantings around the home of plants that require low to very low amounts of water with the exeriscape use for landscaping. If you visit Florida take note of the large amount of very successful plantings of cacti & succulents which do not get much if any type of care by the homeowner or business. Agaves, Aloes, Stapelia, mammilaria, Echinocactus, gymnoclacium, etc all excel in the Florida climate. Currently Aloes,& Kalanchoes are in full bloom. There is no care given to these plants at all year round. Some kalanchoes are now invasive, an are a real pest, As are some of the Sanserveria species. Generally succulents/cacti are not invasive due to the specialized areas, slow rate of growth, & low yield of success from seed. Opunita native or brought in can both be invasive, notice that I state native species. Some native species of plants can be invasive as well as plants brought in from elsewhere. Florida has 2 different parts the northern part which is more like the rest of the Southeastern USA an the peninsula. This is not what you see happening in southern California (in a normal year not this wet winter) , Phoenix, or Las Vegas. You cannot make the desert what it is not, and here many are introducing and spending much in care to create a more tropical landscape without the water or climate to support it on its own. Mike St. Petersburg Florida ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Mon Feb 21 06:15:16 2005 Subject: [CP] CP conservation in florida > Judging by the level of rain we're getting here in > California right now, you > might as well have stayed here. I think we've > broken the 30" mark by now.... that would just so completely make sense if i got settled in here and florida dried up into a desert and california turned into a swamp. ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Mon Feb 21 06:49:09 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings > I still find it amusing when I see home developments > in Southern > California where they are trying to mimic Florida > landscaping, and then I > go > to Florida and I see developments where they are > trying to make them look > like the American Southwest! YES!!! I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU MEAN!! The lakes in irvine, ca look exactly like parts of florida. > ..In Florida this isn't as odd as it sounds > regarding landscaping with > plants from the SW or the desert areas of parts of > Mexico. > Florida host a good selection of native cactus & > succulents, as well as Cuba > and the Caribbean basin. and some of them have very VERY interesting names! http://www.livejournal.com/users/cixel/927775.html wow thank you for all your information on florida climate its fascinating! > ground. In fact they cause much less problems in > maintaining and care than > the Sarracenia. It is a strange sight indeed to see > a N. bicalcarata > sitting next to a large golden barrel cactus on a > July afternoon both > growing extremely nice. thats awesome! > This is not what you see happening in southern > California (in a normal year > not this wet winter) , Phoenix, or Las Vegas. You > cannot make the desert > what it is not, and here many are introducing and > spending much in care to > create a more tropical landscape without the water > or climate to support it > on its own. Ahh but you can force a climate with irrigation (aka a trillion sprinkler systems) take a look at thousand oaks, ca for an example. ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Mon Feb 21 13:56:41 2005 Subject: [CP] Cp in Florida/rubra complex How do you tell the difference between S. rubra ssp wheryii and alabamensis? I just bought a plant (from the BG in Gainsville) that is one of those. It looks exactly like the picture on P. 80 of Schnell's 2nd edition. No "spout" from the lips is present. Well if you live in the right area (flooded occasionally) or probibly dig a ditch in your Florida yard you can plant D. capillaris and/or brevifolia or seed will come up naturally if it is in good conditions. ################### From: mrg40 at student.canterbury.ac.nz (Mikala Graham) Date: Mon Feb 21 13:57:34 2005 Subject: [CP] New Member Hi, My name is Mikala, I live in New Zealand & have just started getting into carnivorous plants again. I have various types of sarracenia, including flava, leukiphyla (sp?), minor, purpurea, and some unknown hybrids. I also have a cephalotus (not the giant type), venus flytrap and many sundews which had seeded into the pots with others when I bought them. I have a quick question... My cephalotus has very deep red pitchers which seem to be slowly dying off. it has produced a few new pitchers, but not as many as I would have expected for how long I have had it, the pitchers appear quite spread out and are not clumped in the centre as I have seen other plants. It gets a lot of light and heat and is sitting in the same water tray as all the others which are doing fine. Could this be due to too low humidity? My other plants are all in full growth at the moment. Will putting a plastic bag over the top with a small hole cut help? Thanks, Mikala. ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Mon Feb 21 17:15:48 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: non-native cp plantings even though poeple do it, it really is a slim chance of it working. but it goes for any non-native plant, if you really, really want it so much that it would come to the point that you just have to dump it in your nearest woodland, medow, etc.. you mine as well put it in your own backyard!!! as in the case of cps, just make a bog garden! and as long as you dont totally negect it, it probaly wont spread to the outside ecosystem (even if your lucky eunuff to live near a swamp, etc... ----- Original Message ----- To: Cp@omnisterra.com > > Send Cp mailing list submissions to > Cp@omnisterra.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > Cp-request@omnisterra.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > Cp-owner@omnisterra.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Cp digest..." > > > CP Mailing list > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: non-natives/life tree (Tre Bond) > 2. seepage wetland symposium (meadow@bealenet.com) > 3. CP conservation in florida (Christopher Hind) > 4. Re: CP conservation in florida (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) > 5. Re: Non-native CP plantings (Michael Hunt) > 6. Re: CP conservation in florida (Christopher Hind) > 7. Re: Re: Non-native CP plantings (Christopher Hind) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 14:12:16 -0800 (PST) > From: Tre Bond > Subject: [CP] Re: non-natives/life tree > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050220221216.18498.qmail@web53309.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > A question I have is why would nayone spend the time, money, or > effort to introduce non-native cps? If it is successful it will > take quite a few plants planted in good (and usually fairly > inaccessable) places. And wouldn't they think that others > (conservationists) would remove these plants? At least I have not > got any reports of people introducing D. capensis or spatulata. > Ivan and others, > I do not know how reliable this is but on CSI they mentioned the > life-tree (of some african tribe) is a bush/shrub that is > pollinated by beetles. > Tre > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 23:54:39 GMT > From: meadow@bealenet.com > Subject: [CP] seepage wetland symposium > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <4219233f.3f85.0@bealenet.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > Hi Everyone: > > I want to invite you to attend our symposium on seepage wetlands which will > be held on Friday, March 11. There is no charge to attend. We have > some noteworthy > speakers and I think you will find the topics interesting. More info. can be > found on the EVENTS link on our web site at www.pitcherplant.org. Hope to see > you there! > > Sincerely, > > Phil Sheridan > Director > Meadowview Biological > Research Station > > http://www.bealenet.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 18:04:30 -0800 (PST) > From: Christopher Hind > Subject: [CP] CP conservation in florida > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050221020431.45879.qmail@web54102.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Anyone on the list involved in conservation of CP in > the wild in florida? I'm particularly interested in a > patch of d. capillaris ive been told is planted in big > cypress swamp in south florida. I should be relocated > here completely by the middle of march. > > Finally getting closer to living out my dream of being > able to grow CP in my backyard. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 23:39:42 EST > From: HmrTheHrmt@aol.com > Subject: Re: [CP] CP conservation in florida > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <7d.6370c515.2f4ac00e@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > Judging by the level of rain we're getting here in California right now, you > might as well have stayed here. I think we've broken the 30" mark by now.... > > > In a message dated 2/20/2005 6:04:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > cixcell@yahoo.com writes: > > Finally getting closer to living out my dream of being > able to grow CP in my backyard. > > > > > > > > TTFN > > > Hamir the Hermit > > > "And there you have another example of how, > while life for you is getting bigger and better, > for someone else in the world, > it's getting smaller and worse." > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 09:01:24 -0500 > From: "Michael Hunt" > Subject: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings > To: > Message-ID: <001101c5181d$d78cbc10$424b9018@ibm2jtbat2tgab> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > From: HmrTheHrmt@aol.com > Subject: Re: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <12f.573adbbc.2f47e819@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII > > I still find it amusing when I see home developments in Southern > California where they are trying to mimic Florida landscaping, and then I > go > to Florida and I see developments where they are trying to make them look > like the American Southwest! > > > > ..In Florida this isn't as odd as it sounds regarding landscaping with > plants from the SW or the desert areas of parts of Mexico. > Florida host a good selection of native cactus & succulents, as well as Cuba > and the Caribbean basin. The climate is very similar to eastern Mexico along > the gulf and on the western Pacific coast , down the Baja. > Peninsula Florida, especially along the coastal regions has for the most > very quick draining sand, in many places that is the entire soil content. > It can rain a couple of inches almost daily an by the dawn of the next day > the sandy soil is completely dry to the point where you could stick your > fingers down a few inches and detect no moisture at all from the day before > downpour. > > Take a hike down the what is left of the Florida ridge down the spine of > Central Florida in June, it is blistering hot and though humid it resembles > the desert in both flora & fauna. You will think you are in the Sonora > desert. > Yet amongst this sandy series of dunes along US 27 there are areas where wet > areas remain and Drosera can be found. Most of this region is destroyed to > agriculture an now suburban sprawl to the north west of Disney World > > Extreme south Florida's main soil base is a rock hard layer of limestone > that in places rises to the surface in other places such as the Everglades > there are large pockets of decaying plant matter as peat. None the less the > Everglades has a lot of ground that is alkaline. The nature of this soil > make up repels water when it falls it is very very hard to dig into, just > like solid rock. > There are rare native Ceres growing on shell mounds directly along the west > gulf coast north to Tampa Bay. To the south towards Cuba you pick up not > just the Melocactus family but also Mammillaria, all native cacti to these > humid sub & tropical climates. Florida has many native Opuntia species as > well. > > In fact if you went around the globe looking at climates you will find that > Florida is the oddity climate wise. For all other land areas at this > latitude are dry/deserts. Florida is the oddity due to the large bodies of > water on both sides of the narrow peninsula. These bodies of water cause a > clash of airmass's in the summer allowing creation of violent afternoon > thunderstorms and that is all that keeps peninsula Florida from being a > desert. When the temperatures drop and the water temperature drops in the > winter these thunderstorms cease. Florida becomes a very dry region where > only the occasional cold front provides a little rain. > > If not for the Atlantic and gulf of Mexico Florida's climate & landscape > would be close to that of the Chihuahua desert in Mexico at the same > elevation. > > However, given the summertime rainy period causes Florida not to be a dry > desert like climate this is also due to the very high humidity that most > cacti & some succulents like the Lithops detest. During the summer period > it is hard to keep many types of cacti in pots from scaring due to the high > humidity and frequent rainfall. Thus cacti from the Baja Peninsula do very > well in most of Florida, which to a point is very similar to Florida > humidity wise due to the Pacific and gulf of California. If you were to > visit southeastern Texas you will find a similar summertime climate to > Florida, in the winter this area even gets more rain regularly than Florida > and a plethora of cacti & succulent species lives here to include the Peyote > button, and other of the rock cacti types that hate to much water in a pot & > are known for growing extremely dry. > > In my own case we receive much less summertime rains compared to the inland > areas. On the coast the storms are blown away inland. My cacti and > succulents overall do very well, the best ones are directly planted into the > ground. In fact they cause much less problems in maintaining and care than > the Sarracenia. It is a strange sight indeed to see a N. bicalcarata > sitting next to a large golden barrel cactus on a July afternoon both > growing extremely nice. > > The State of Florida encourages plantings around the home of plants that > require low to very low amounts of water with the exeriscape use for > landscaping. > > If you visit Florida take note of the large amount of very successful > plantings of cacti & succulents which do not get much if any type of care by > the homeowner or business. Agaves, Aloes, Stapelia, mammilaria, > Echinocactus, gymnoclacium, etc all excel in the Florida climate. Currently > Aloes,& Kalanchoes are in full bloom. There is no care given to these > plants at all year round. Some kalanchoes are now invasive, an are a real > pest, As are some of the Sanserveria species. > Generally succulents/cacti are not invasive due to the specialized areas, > slow rate of growth, & low yield of success from seed. Opunita native or > brought in can both be invasive, notice that I state native species. Some > native species of plants can be invasive as well as plants brought in from > elsewhere. > > Florida has 2 different parts the northern part which is more like the rest > of the Southeastern USA an the peninsula. > > This is not what you see happening in southern California (in a normal year > not this wet winter) , Phoenix, or Las Vegas. You cannot make the desert > what it is not, and here many are introducing and spending much in care to > create a more tropical landscape without the water or climate to support it > on its own. > > Mike > St. Petersburg Florida > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 06:15:09 -0800 (PST) > From: Christopher Hind > Subject: Re: [CP] CP conservation in florida > To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > Message-ID: <20050221141509.27135.qmail@web54108.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > Judging by the level of rain we're getting here in > > California right now, you might as well have stayed here. I think we've > > broken the 30" mark by now.... > > that would just so completely make sense if i got > settled in here and florida dried up into a desert and > california turned into a swamp. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 06:49:01 -0800 (PST) > From: Christopher Hind > Subject: Re: [CP] Re: Non-native CP plantings > To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > Message-ID: <20050221144902.66742.qmail@web54109.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > I still find it amusing when I see home developments > > in Southern > > California where they are trying to mimic Florida > > landscaping, and then I go > > to Florida and I see developments where they are > > trying to make them look > > like the American Southwest! > > YES!!! I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU MEAN!! > The lakes in irvine, ca look exactly like parts of > florida. > > > ..In Florida this isn't as odd as it sounds > > regarding landscaping with plants from the SW or the desert areas of parts of > > Mexico. > > Florida host a good selection of native cactus & > > succulents, as well as Cuba and the Caribbean basin. > > and some of them have very VERY interesting names! > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/cixel/927775.html > > wow thank you for all your information on florida > climate its fascinating! > > > ground. In fact they cause much less problems in > > maintaining and care than the Sarracenia. It is a strange sight > > indeed to see > > a N. bicalcarata sitting next to a large golden barrel cactus on a > > July afternoon both growing extremely nice. > > thats awesome! > > > This is not what you see happening in southern > > California (in a normal year not this wet winter) , Phoenix, or > > Las Vegas. You > > cannot make the desert what it is not, and here many are introducing and > > spending much in care to create a more tropical landscape without the water > > or climate to support it on its own. > > Ahh but you can force a climate with irrigation (aka a > trillion sprinkler systems) take a look at thousand > oaks, ca for an example. > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > End of Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 23 > ********************************** -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Mon Feb 21 20:24:09 2005 Subject: [CP] New Member Dear Mikala, Welcome to the list. _Cephalotus_ is not very fond of heat. Also, they need the soil to be less wet (more like permanently moist) than _Sarracenia_ soils. I doubt the plastic bag would help. Probably some more shade during the hot part of the day and less water will help your plant. Whenever I get a _Cephalotus_ plant I think it is a good idea to make cuttings from it as soon as it is large enough. My experience with _Cephalotus_ has been that it can grow for years, and then one day you find all the roots have rotted. :( This is why it is best to make some cuttings so there are separate plants just incase this disease strikes the original plant. Good luck, Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of Mikala Graham Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 4:57 PM Hi, My name is Mikala, I live in New Zealand & have just started getting into carnivorous plants again. I have various types of Sarracenia, including flava, leucophylla (sp?), minor, purpurea, and some unknown hybrids. I also have a Cephalotus (not the giant type), Venus flytrap and many sundews which had seeded into the pots with others when I bought them. I have a quick question... My Cephalotus has very deep red pitchers which seem to be slowly dying off. it has produced a few new pitchers, but not as many as I would have expected for how long I have had it, the pitchers appear quite spread out and are not clumped in the centre as I have seen other plants. It gets a lot of light and heat and is sitting in the same water tray as all the others which are doing fine. Could this be due to too low humidity? My other plants are all in full growth at the moment. Will putting a plastic bag over the top with a small hole cut help? Thanks, Mikala. ################### From: jmateosky at yahoo.com (JIM MATEOSKY) Date: Tue Feb 22 04:49:28 2005 Subject: [CP] Shipping - best way for chance of survival? Hi everyone, What is the best way to ship nepenthes? It is a long way from SE asia to North America, + Customs time and get them in to the pots... Bare root? Know anyone that whips in meristem boxes (grown in a gel called AGAR)? ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Tue Feb 22 09:30:38 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Sterile Drosera hybrids >Also, production of unreduced gametes may be one reason why triploids >and such can produce viable seeds. Hi Hideka, Hmmm, curious you mention that. I once wild collected seed of a normally tetraploid sundew and sent some to Fernando Rivadavia. He grew them and later counted the chromosomes. It had 30; a triploid set. I felt at the time that this was a mistake, but who knows? I think his article which tells about this is pending publication now. Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: asplundii at gmail.com (Travis Wyman) Date: Tue Feb 22 10:57:12 2005 Subject: [CP] RFI: Sarr location in North Carolina I have heard that there is a really nice stand of S. flava near Lumberton, NC. I have family in that area and will be visiting them in the next month or so and was curious if anyone could confirm this rumor and perhaps provide directions. I'd like the opportunity to get out to the site and photograph some plants in situ. If you can help please email me off list. Thanks Travis ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Tue Feb 22 13:59:44 2005 Subject: [CP] source? Any one know where I can get these US native bladderworts? Utricularia minor Utricularia olivacea Utricularia radiata Utricularia resupinata Wolf ################### From: madanderson1992 at access-4-free.com (Michael Anderson) Date: Tue Feb 22 21:46:28 2005 Subject: [CP] Sarracenia Hi, Just wondering if anyone knows of anywhere in or near Naples or Bonita Springs, Florida where I would be able to purchase Sarracenia? Thanks, ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Tue Feb 22 21:53:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: sarr location i nc thats good, make sure u dont reveal the location here, im sure u guys r fine gentlemen, but u never know! those plant robbers may be lurking around the bushs! -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: namour at lyon.cemagref.fr (Philippe NAMOUR) Date: Wed Feb 23 07:38:32 2005 Subject: [CP] Conference 2006 Maryland A 11:37 30/01/2005 +0000, David Ahrens a ?crit : >So, the 2006 ICPS Conference will be in Maryland. So it's Maryland for a >holiday next year, that's always my excuse to visit a part of the world >that I haven't been to before. I better start saving the pennies. I've >been to all the conferences except Japan, which was too expensive for me. >Talking of conferences, does anyone know anything about the EEE this year >? They delayed it last year because the ICPS conference was held in Europe >and it would clash with it. I think that it was the intention to hold it >in the Czech Republic somewhere. Does anyone know of a website or other >details ? Hello David Yes I have : http://www.darwiniana.cz/index.php?jazyknew=en&page=63 cordially Philippe >Regards >David Ahrens >London. > > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Wed Feb 23 08:57:42 2005 Subject: [CP] Conference 2006 Maryland Wow,the conference will be held here! Is it open to public or just orgs.? Wolf ----Original Message Follows---- Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group To: "David Ahrens" , Cp@omnisterra.com A 11:37 30/01/2005 +0000, David Ahrens a écrit : >So, the 2006 ICPS Conference will be in Maryland. So it's Maryland for a >holiday next year, that's always my excuse to visit a part of the world >that I haven't been to before. I better start saving the pennies. I've been >to all the conferences except Japan, which was too expensive for me. >Talking of conferences, does anyone know anything about the EEE this year ? >They delayed it last year because the ICPS conference was held in Europe >and it would clash with it. I think that it was the intention to hold it in >the Czech Republic somewhere. Does anyone know of a website or other >details ? Hello David Yes I have : http://www.darwiniana.cz/index.php?jazyknew=en&page=63 cordially Philippe >Regards >David Ahrens >London. > > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com Dr. Philippe Namour, Cemagref, URE QEPP, 3bis quai Chauveau, CP 200, F-69336 Lyon cedex 09, France http://www.lyon.cemagref.fr/lyon/, Phone:+33 4 72 20 87 56, Fax :+33 4 78 47 78 75 The contents of this message express only the sender's opinion _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Wed Feb 23 13:30:26 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Sarracenia That is right next to LBG (Lee's Botanical Gardens). If you go to www.lbg-cp.com or .net I cannot remmeber you can request a time to visit and buy plants ################### From: mrg40 at student.canterbury.ac.nz (Mikala Graham) Date: Wed Feb 23 17:45:38 2005 Subject: [CP] New Member Dave, Thanks for your reply, I will shift it (the Cephalotus)back from the window immediately and lower the water level. What you said also explains why all the others I have seen look so green compared to mine! How can you tell when the plant is big enough to take cuttings? is there a certain number or size of traps that I can use as a rule of thumb? Thanks again, Mikala. Dave Evans wrote: > Dear Mikala, > > > Welcome to the list. > > _Cephalotus_ is not very fond of heat. Also, they need the soil to > be less wet (more like permanently moist) than _Sarracenia_ soils. I doubt > the plastic bag would help. Probably some more shade during the hot part of > the day and less water will help your plant. > > Whenever I get a _Cephalotus_ plant I think it is a good idea to > make cuttings from it as soon as it is large enough. My experience with > _Cephalotus_ has been that it can grow for years, and then one day you find > all the roots have rotted. :( This is why it is best to make some cuttings > so there are separate plants just incase this disease strikes the original > plant. > > > Good luck, > Dave Evans > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On Behalf > Of Mikala Graham > Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 4:57 PM > > Hi, > My name is Mikala, I live in New Zealand & have just started getting > into carnivorous plants again. > I have various types of Sarracenia, including flava, leucophylla (sp?), > minor, purpurea, and some unknown hybrids. > I also have a Cephalotus (not the giant type), Venus flytrap and many > sundews which had seeded into the pots with others when I bought them. > > I have a quick question... > My Cephalotus has very deep red pitchers which seem to be slowly dying > off. it has produced a few new pitchers, but not as many as I would have > expected for how long I have had it, the pitchers appear quite spread > out and are not clumped in the centre as I have seen other plants. It > gets a lot of light and heat and is sitting in the same water tray as > all the others which are doing fine. Could this be due to too low > humidity? My other plants are all in full growth at the moment. > Will putting a plastic bag over the top with a small hole cut help? > > Thanks, > Mikala. > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: wwbielby at comcast.net (wwbielby@comcast.net) Date: Thu Feb 24 03:06:50 2005 Subject: [CP] Article in Italian magazine There is an interesting--let me rephrase that--an attractive article on CP in the current issue of an Italian home decorating magazine called BravaCasa. I say attractive because the pictures are well done--I can't read the text, but it amounts to only a couple of paragraphs, anyway. It seems to mention an Italian CP organization and perhaps a web site to order plants. BravaCasa, Marza 2005, pp 316-321. Enjoy if you have access--perhaps an Italian-speaking list member will have more useful comments. ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Thu Feb 24 09:54:33 2005 Subject: [CP] D. burmannii Beerwah Hi CPers, For the many of you that grow the sundew D. burmannii from Beerwah Queensland Australia and treasure collection data, here is a little more info. It was I that originally collected the plant in 1991, and through me it began its spread around the world. The plant has become so common I expect one day it may make the climb into the sky and spread beyond Earth. A friend (thanks Doug) I recently sent seed to found the meaning of the curious name Beerwah: http://www.nrm.qld.gov.au/about/media/may/06_town_names.html "Beerwah was also adapted from the Aboriginal Kabi language with words such as ‘birra’ meaning sky and ‘wandum’ for climbing up." Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: kdubash at vsnl.com (KDubash) Date: Thu Feb 24 22:20:02 2005 Subject: [CP] cp nurseries in Thailand Hi, I am visting Thailand, and want to purchase some cp's, if I can. Does anyone know of any sites/e-mail addresses of nurseries in Thailand that sell cp's? Thanks, Khushroo ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Fri Feb 25 12:57:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Sundews waking up Spring has come early here in the northeast. Since early February,some of my native lilies been popping out of the ground. And now my sundews are showing signs,they are breaking dormancy. Guess soon will the pitcher plants too? Wolf ################### From: Killerplants at aol.com (Killerplants@aol.com) Date: Fri Feb 25 16:47:10 2005 Subject: [CP] Re:Cp Nurseries in Thailand Try here :) Cheers, Joe Griffin Lincoln, NE USA ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Sat Feb 26 16:59:04 2005 Subject: [CP] re:sundews wakeing up did you say u live in the northeast? where abouts? i live in the northeast and im waiting for spring to come, if u live anywhere near me (massachusetts) hopefully spring is caomeing to me soon too! -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Sat Feb 26 17:46:15 2005 Subject: [CP] re:sundews wakeing up Yes,I live lower end of the northeast,in Maryland. I also read from other gardeners having there wildflowers popping up,and one cp grower S. flava growing flower stalk. some of my bladderworts came out of dormancy,and seeing signs of my Drosera filiformis var. filiformis and Drosera intermedia. And they are outside. I do have my Drosera rotundifolia in frig because I have some seeds in the pot of Drosera rotundifolia-NJ. The plants I think are southern varity? They go dormate later than other sundews. And only ones that I kept in the house all winter by the window are Drosera brevifolia-SC. And now seedlings of Drosera capillaris-SC Wolf ----Original Message Follows---- Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group To: Cp@omnisterra.com did you say u live in the northeast? where abouts? i live in the northeast and im waiting for spring to come, if u live anywhere near me (massachusetts) hopefully spring is caomeing to me soon too! -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Sat Feb 26 17:49:13 2005 Subject: [CP] US Sale: Qty. 1 U. purpurea,intermedia,and striata 1 Utricularia intermedia - $7 1. Utricularia purpurea - $4 1. Utricularia striata - 7 Plus $1 for Package/Postage Wolf ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Sun Feb 27 03:19:29 2005 Subject: [CP] Sundews waking up etc Wolf mentioned about Sundews waking up in the US north east and spring arriving. Here in the UK, well we thought that spring was arriving, but we have had a bout of snow for the past week. Nothing really severe though, it's just too warm. At least, it has not been too severe down in the south east. Scotland has had a bit more, I believe. I didn't want my pitcher plants to be hit and knocked back by the cold, so I brought them out of the garage a week ago, and put them on the kitchen windowsill. I don't think that the cold would normally be a problem for Sarracenia, but mine are about to break dormancy, so I didn't want that process disrupted. I kept my Sarracenia drier than I normally do, in an effort to stave off the dreaded grey mould. In fact I let them go almost bone dry. Every two or three weeks I would check them, and usually, put the pots in half an inch of water for exactly five minutes, no more. When I picked up the pots, it felt as though there was water in the first inch of the pot by the way the pot balanced. Most of the winter, the actual surface of the compost was dry or dryish. This technique has obviously worked for me, because I have had no grey mould whatsoever, which is great. I had some white mould on the sugary residue which the scale insects leave behind, but this hasn't spread to the plants themselves. I get a bit of scale sometimes, but for some reason, it seems to go away later in the year, whether predators visit my plants naturally I don't know. These days, I grow S.oreophila and S.purp venosa, I haven't got much room for much else, and they both grow well in a house situation. My VFT's are in the salad basket in the fridge. This is the first year that I have tried this, they normally go in the garage or stay on the windowsill, both have proved to unsatisfactory, either too warm or too cold. I've got some rhubarb seedlings on the windowsill at the moment. When they are planted out on the allotment, I will take the VFT's out of the fridge. I don't know about everyone else, but I always find this an exciting time of the year for CP's, everything breaking dormancy, and waiting for the first new pitchers to arrive, which are always so amazing, perfectly formed and colourful. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Sun Feb 27 08:04:07 2005 Subject: [CP] Sundews waking up etc Thats awsome David! I leave my warm-temps cps outside,unless its freezing out? And sometimes I just let the pots freeze fully for a day,then bring them so they not exposed to the freezing temps too long. This seems to work too in keeping the pots mold/fungi free. If they in the basement too long,I would mist the plants with little fungicide. But they never in the bast too long,maybe about a week,then out again when temps go above freezing. If freezing at night,I just bring them in for that night. But ones in a while let the pots freeze for a day. Wolf ----Original Message Follows---- Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group To: Cp@omnisterra.com Wolf mentioned about Sundews waking up in the US north east and spring arriving. Here in the UK, well we thought that spring was arriving, but we have had a bout of snow for the past week. Nothing really severe though, it's just too warm. At least, it has not been too severe down in the south east. Scotland has had a bit more, I believe. I didn't want my pitcher plants to be hit and knocked back by the cold, so I brought them out of the garage a week ago, and put them on the kitchen windowsill. I don't think that the cold would normally be a problem for Sarracenia, but mine are about to break dormancy, so I didn't want that process disrupted. I kept my Sarracenia drier than I normally do, in an effort to stave off the dreaded grey mould. In fact I let them go almost bone dry. Every two or three weeks I would check them, and usually, put the pots in half an inch of water for exactly five minutes, no more. When I picked up the pots, it felt as though there was water in the first inch of the pot by the way the pot balanced. Most of the winter, the actual surface of the compost was dry or dryish. This technique has obviously worked for me, because I have had no grey mould whatsoever, which is great. I had some white mould on the sugary residue which the scale insects leave behind, but this hasn't spread to the plants themselves. I get a bit of scale sometimes, but for some reason, it seems to go away later in the year, whether predators visit my plants naturally I don't know. These days, I grow S.oreophila and S.purp venosa, I haven't got much room for much else, and they both grow well in a house situation. My VFT's are in the salad basket in the fridge. This is the first year that I have tried this, they normally go in the garage or stay on the windowsill, both have proved to unsatisfactory, either too warm or too cold. I've got some rhubarb seedlings on the windowsill at the moment. When they are planted out on the allotment, I will take the VFT's out of the fridge. I don't know about everyone else, but I always find this an exciting time of the year for CP's, everything breaking dormancy, and waiting for the first new pitchers to arrive, which are always so amazing, perfectly formed and colourful. Regards David Ahrens London. _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Sun Feb 27 20:41:08 2005 Subject: [CP] Re:sundews wakeing up boy, i wish my plants would start to wake up and the native trees to strart growing.... ----- Original Message ----- To: Cp@omnisterra.com > > Send Cp mailing list submissions to > Cp@omnisterra.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > Cp-request@omnisterra.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > Cp-owner@omnisterra.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Cp digest..." > > > CP Mailing list > > Today's Topics: > > 1. re:sundews wakeing up (jon mungeam) > 2. RE: re:sundews wakeing up (Harry Q) > 3. US Sale: Qty. 1 U. purpurea,intermedia,and striata (Harry Q) > 4. Sundews waking up etc (David Ahrens) > 5. RE: Sundews waking up etc (Harry Q) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 09:01:04 +0800 > From: "jon mungeam" > Subject: [CP] re:sundews wakeing up > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050227010104.3FBB41027BE@ws3.hk5.outblaze.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > did you say u live in the northeast? where abouts? i live in the > northeast and im waiting for spring to come, if u live anywhere > near me (massachusetts) hopefully spring is caomeing to me soon too! > -- > _______________________________________________ > Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 20:45:14 -0500 > From: "Harry Q" > Subject: RE: [CP] re:sundews wakeing up > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > Yes,I live lower end of the northeast,in Maryland. I also read from other > gardeners having there wildflowers popping up,and one cp grower S. flava > growing flower stalk. > > some of my bladderworts came out of dormancy,and seeing signs of my Drosera > filiformis var. filiformis and Drosera intermedia. And they are outside. I > do have my Drosera rotundifolia in frig because I have some seeds in the pot > of Drosera rotundifolia-NJ. The plants I think are southern varity? They go > dormate later than other sundews. And only ones that I kept in the house all > winter by the window are Drosera brevifolia-SC. And now seedlings of Drosera > capillaris-SC > > Wolf > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "jon mungeam" > Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Subject: [CP] re:sundews wakeing up > Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 09:01:04 +0800 > > did you say u live in the northeast? where abouts? i live in the northeast > and im waiting for spring to come, if u live anywhere near me > (massachusetts) hopefully spring is caomeing to me soon too! > -- > _______________________________________________ > Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com > > Powered by Outblaze > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2005 20:48:04 -0500 > From: "Harry Q" > Subject: [CP] US Sale: Qty. 1 U. purpurea,intermedia,and striata > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > 1 Utricularia intermedia - $7 > > 1. Utricularia purpurea - $4 > > 1. Utricularia striata - 7 > > Plus $1 for Package/Postage > > Wolf > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 10:45:41 +0000 > From: "David Ahrens" > Subject: [CP] Sundews waking up etc > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > Wolf mentioned about Sundews waking up in the US north east and spring > arriving. > Here in the UK, well we thought that spring was arriving, but we have had a > bout of snow for the past week. Nothing really severe though, it's just too > warm. At least, it has not been too severe down in the south east. Scotland > has had a bit more, I believe. > I didn't want my pitcher plants to be hit and knocked back by the cold, so I > brought them out of the garage a week ago, and put them on the kitchen > windowsill. I don't think that the cold would normally be a problem for > Sarracenia, but mine are about to break dormancy, so I didn't want that > process disrupted. > I kept my Sarracenia drier than I normally do, in an effort to stave off the > dreaded grey mould. In fact I let them go almost bone dry. Every two or > three weeks I would check them, and usually, put the pots in half an inch of > water for exactly five minutes, no more. When I picked up the pots, it felt > as though there was water in the first inch of the pot by the way the pot > balanced. Most of the winter, the actual surface of the compost was dry or > dryish. > This technique has obviously worked for me, because I have had no grey mould > whatsoever, which is great. I had some white mould on the sugary residue > which the scale insects leave behind, but this hasn't spread to the plants > themselves. I get a bit of scale sometimes, but for some reason, it seems to > go away later in the year, whether predators visit my plants naturally I > don't know. > These days, I grow S.oreophila and S.purp venosa, I haven't got much room > for much else, and they both grow well in a house situation. > My VFT's are in the salad basket in the fridge. This is the first year that > I have tried this, they normally go in the garage or stay on the windowsill, > both have proved to unsatisfactory, either too warm or too cold. I've got > some rhubarb seedlings on the windowsill at the moment. When they are > planted out on the allotment, I will take the VFT's out of the fridge. > I don't know about everyone else, but I always find this an exciting time of > the year for CP's, everything breaking dormancy, and waiting for the first > new pitchers to arrive, which are always so amazing, perfectly formed and > colourful. > Regards > David Ahrens > London. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 11:03:18 -0500 > From: "Harry Q" > Subject: RE: [CP] Sundews waking up etc > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > > Thats awsome David! I leave my warm-temps cps outside,unless its freezing > out? And sometimes I just let the pots freeze fully for a day,then bring > them so they not exposed to the freezing temps too long. This seems to work > too in keeping the pots mold/fungi free. If they in the basement too long,I > would mist the plants with little fungicide. But they never in the bast too > long,maybe about a week,then out again when temps go above freezing. If > freezing at night,I just bring them in for that night. But ones in a while > let the pots freeze for a day. > > Wolf > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "David Ahrens" > Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Subject: [CP] Sundews waking up etc > Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 10:45:41 +0000 > > Wolf mentioned about Sundews waking up in the US north east and spring > arriving. > Here in the UK, well we thought that spring was arriving, but we have had a > bout of snow for the past week. Nothing really severe though, it's just too > warm. At least, it has not been too severe down in the south east. Scotland > has had a bit more, I believe. > I didn't want my pitcher plants to be hit and knocked back by the cold, so I > brought them out of the garage a week ago, and put them on the kitchen > windowsill. I don't think that the cold would normally be a problem for > Sarracenia, but mine are about to break dormancy, so I didn't want that > process disrupted. > I kept my Sarracenia drier than I normally do, in an effort to stave off the > dreaded grey mould. In fact I let them go almost bone dry. Every two or > three weeks I would check them, and usually, put the pots in half an inch of > water for exactly five minutes, no more. When I picked up the pots, it felt > as though there was water in the first inch of the pot by the way the pot > balanced. Most of the winter, the actual surface of the compost was dry or > dryish. > This technique has obviously worked for me, because I have had no grey mould > whatsoever, which is great. I had some white mould on the sugary residue > which the scale insects leave behind, but this hasn't spread to the plants > themselves. I get a bit of scale sometimes, but for some reason, it seems to > go away later in the year, whether predators visit my plants naturally I > don't know. > These days, I grow S.oreophila and S.purp venosa, I haven't got much room > for much else, and they both grow well in a house situation. > My VFT's are in the salad basket in the fridge. This is the first year that > I have tried this, they normally go in the garage or stay on the windowsill, > both have proved to unsatisfactory, either too warm or too cold. I've got > some rhubarb seedlings on the windowsill at the moment. When they are > planted out on the allotment, I will take the VFT's out of the fridge. > I don't know about everyone else, but I always find this an exciting time of > the year for CP's, everything breaking dormancy, and waiting for the first > new pitchers to arrive, which are always so amazing, perfectly formed and > colourful. > Regards > David Ahrens > London. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > End of Cp Digest, Vol 21, Issue 29 > ********************************** -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: naphat84 at msn.com (Naphat Panthukumphol) Date: Sun Feb 27 22:33:15 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Nepenthes nursery in Thailand I suggest Jatujak Market in Bangkok, thailand. However, Many of them come from Australia and Malesia nursery. Thai nepenthes are also found in this market with very cheap price. Good luck! have a nice trip! ################### From: o.marthaler at bluewin.ch (o.marthaler@bluewin.ch) Date: Mon Feb 28 13:58:06 2005 Subject: [CP] looking for Phill Mann Hi Phill, (sorry everybody, it's only "indirectly" addressed to you!) As I have had recent problems sending emails, I'm not sure my latest got to you correctly. It was sent on Feb. 17 from my usual address (o.marthaler@bluewin.ch) If you happened not to have received it, could you please be kind enough and get in contact with me ? In case you have received it OK, I can wait for a later reply, when you have more time, there's no hurry! All the best Phill (and everybody reading this mail!) OL from CH ################### From: Netmarketer1 at aol.com (Netmarketer1@aol.com) Date: Mon Feb 28 18:52:29 2005 Subject: [CP] Wetlands symposium in Central, VA Open invitation to all. FREE! ################### From: jaldridge at fwcds.org (James Aldridge) Date: Tue Mar 1 07:47:27 2005 Subject: [CP] inexpensive Nepenthes I was wandering around our Wal-Mart Supercenter last night and found six large Nepenthes for 1.60 each. They are unnamed, but they are great looking plants. Jim ====================================== James Aldridge Fort Worth Country Day School - www.fwcds.org Fort Worth, Texas, USA Departments of Science & Computer Science jaldridge@fwcds.org ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Tue Mar 1 07:59:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Wetlands symposium in Central, VA Me and my buddy is supose to be going on the 11th? Wolf ----Original Message Follows---- Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group To: Cp@omnisterra.com Open invitation to all. FREE! March 11, 2005 – A Symposium on the Identification, Restoration, and Synthesis of Seepage Wetlands in Maryland and Virginia. Caroline County Community Services Center 17202 Richmond Turnpike (Rt. 301), Milford, VA 22514. EVENTS LISITING: _http://www.pitcherplant.org/SpecialEvents.html_ (http://www.pitcherplant.org/SpecialEvents.html) GUEST SPEAKERS: _http://members.aol.com/alleng2397/symposium_presenters.jpg_ (http://members.aol.com/alleng2397/symposium_presenters.jpg) DIRECTIONS: _http://members.aol.com/alleng2397/symposium_directions.jpg_ (http://members.aol.com/alleng2397/symposium_directions.jpg) No registration required! Hope to see you there! Allen Gustin - email... _netmarketer1@aol.com_ (mailto:netmarketer1@aol.com) Meadowview Biological Research Station Database Mgr. _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Tue Mar 1 09:30:16 2005 Subject: [CP] strange development Hi all, I just noticed a strange development on my D. rotundifolia EverGrow. As you all know, I am big on doing hybridization experiments. I cross pollinated one of my plants and marked the flower with a thread as usual. This time while inspecting the capsule development I noticed something white protruding from the top of the capsule. It's a developing seed; the capsule is literally bursting with them. Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: ksanders at clas.ufl.edu (Keith Sanders) Date: Tue Mar 1 12:29:39 2005 Subject: [CP] CNN story about Darlingtonia CNN has a nice little story about Darlingtonia online: http://www.cnn.com/2005/TRAVEL/DESTINATIONS/03/01/oregon.park.ap/index.html ################### From: ullsperg at hotmail.com (Chris Ullsperger) Date: Tue Mar 1 13:53:20 2005 Subject: [CP] CP bogs now a popular travel destination???? http://www.cnn.com/2005/TRAVEL/DESTINATIONS/03/01/oregon.park.ap/index.html ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Tue Mar 1 14:45:23 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: inexpensive Nepenthes that is a good deal, but u need to be on your toes, stores like food stores and discount stores, if they have cps they might have gotten them from people who harvest them right out of thier own ecosystem!!! so if u find cps for cheap, especially vfts ask the manager of the store thier sources for the plants. -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: dh at twtl.com (Dennis) Date: Tue Mar 1 16:04:11 2005 Subject: [CP] Cephalotus Hummers Giant I have been looking for Cephalotus Hummers Giant. It does not seem to be on any retail growers list for sale. I have found the German giant form available, but some information indicates they are 2 separate varieties. Any information on where this plant might be purchased or traded would be appreciated. ################### From: CrazyEddie1981 at hotmail.com (Adam Sforza) Date: Wed Mar 2 04:36:11 2005 Subject: [CP] Sarracenia divisions ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Wed Mar 2 07:26:11 2005 Subject: [CP] You methodss of acidtising water? What is your methoods of acidtising water for your aquatic bladderworts? Sorry for any bad spelling? I also tried spell check,but it don't know much either. Wolf ################### From: jaldridge at fwcds.org (James Aldridge) Date: Wed Mar 2 12:35:47 2005 Subject: [CP] cheap Nepenthes I think my Walmart Nepenthes are pretty clearly hybrid clones. Jim ====================================== James Aldridge Fort Worth Country Day School - www.fwcds.org Fort Worth, Texas, USA Departments of Science & Computer Science jaldridge@fwcds.org ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Wed Mar 2 12:55:22 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: rotundifolia + mississippi bog Hey Everyone, Ivan I have heard that some Drosera do that sometimes. Unfortunatly another bog is being destroyed. One in mississippi due to oil drilling. I am not sure what Sarracenia are their yet but I know it has D. capillaris. I hope permits are obtained in time to rescue some plants. ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Thu Mar 3 07:49:44 2005 Subject: [CP] Drosera arenicola (Duida) flowering - photos :) Hi everyone, I'm very pleased to announce that a couple of my Drosera arenicola (Duida) are now flowering. I grew these from seed. Here are 2 photos: http://www.sundewgrower.com/pics/d_arenicola_2.24.05_1.1.jpg http://www.sundewgrower.com/pics/d_arenicola_2.24.05_1.jpg Here's another photo of a redder plant growing closer to the lights: http://www.sundewgrower.com/pics/arenicola_duida_11_25_03b.JPG And here's a photo of something I received labelled arenicola years ago which certainly is NOT arenicola: (NOT arenicola!!) http://sundewgrower.com/pics/arenicola.jpg (NOT arenicola!!) As of now, true Drosera arenicola is extremely rare in cultivation. I think I only known 1 other person who has true arenicola - most of the plants I've seen in collections labelled arenicola are NOT arenicola and aren't even from S.America. If you have plants labelled arenicola, now would be a good time to compare it to these pictures. I'd like to hear from anyone else who has true arenicola. I expect to offer plants of this for trade in the not to distant future, after I've taken care of my prior CP commitments. Thanks to the friend who generously provided me with this material (!) and to Pete Thiel for the web hosting and tech support. Matt -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Thu Mar 3 08:44:58 2005 Subject: [CP] CP in Jamaica Hey Folks, There's a short article on carnivorous plants in Jamaica. Nothing of significant new learning to the educated subscribers of this list. However, there is the interesting news that S. rubra and S. minor have both been inserted into the Jamaican flora: http://www.jamaicachm.org.jm/Articles/mason_river.asp Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Director of Conservation Programs The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Thu Mar 3 12:00:48 2005 Subject: [CP] CP in Jamaica And, as well, VFTs. I don't know if this bog has any elevation to it to make it more temperate, but Jamaica is pretty tropical. How do these plants survive without an adequate dormancy? I know we've had some discussions on this list previously from Hawai'ian members who have found difficulty in growing Sarracenias out their way. In a message dated 3/3/2005 8:45:29 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, bamrice@ucdavis.edu writes: There's a short article on carnivorous plants in Jamaica. Nothing of significant new learning to the educated subscribers of this list. However, there is the interesting news that S. rubra and S. minor have both been inserted into the Jamaican flora: http://www.jamaicachm.org.jm/Articles/mason_river.asp TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Thu Mar 3 12:10:07 2005 Subject: [CP] Mississippi bog Tre, You may wish to contact the Crosby Arboretum, Mississippi. They do bog rescues. My contact at the Crosby Arboretum, Bill Brzuzek, has gone, but the new curator is named Melinda Lyman. The web site for Crosby is: http://www.msstate.edu/dept/crec/camain.html Cheers Barry > Hey Everyone, > Ivan I have heard that some Drosera do that sometimes. > Unfortunatly another bog is being destroyed. One in > mississippi due to oil drilling. I am not sure what > Sarracenia are their yet but I know it has D. capillaris. I > hope permits are obtained in time to rescue some plants. > Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Director of Conservation Programs The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: RL7836 at earthlink.net (Ron Lane) Date: Thu Mar 3 13:21:27 2005 Subject: [CP] CP in Jamaica These plants (S. rubra, S. minor, VFT) were introduced in 1969/1975 and have apparently survived (thrived?) since then. Doesn't this throw doubt on their need for an annual rest period? I wouldn't think that there is much of a winter temperature differential. Ron To: Message-ID: <200503031644.j23Giprc020991@lisbon.ucdavis.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey Folks, There's a short article on carnivorous plants in Jamaica. Nothing of significant new learning to the educated subscribers of this list. However, there is the interesting news that S. rubra and S. minor have both been inserted into the Jamaican flora: http://www.jamaicachm.org.jm/Articles/mason_river.asp Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Director of Conservation Programs The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Thu Mar 3 16:32:12 2005 Subject: [CP] re: CP in Jamaica Hi Barry, Is that Drosera native to Jamaica or was it too a transplant? Thanks, Matt Message: 4 To: Message-ID: <200503031644.j23Giprc020991@lisbon.ucdavis.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey Folks, There's a short article on carnivorous plants in Jamaica. Nothing of significant new learning to the educated subscribers of this list. However, there is the interesting news that S. rubra and S. minor have both been inserted into the Jamaican flora: http://www.jamaicachm.org.jm/Articles/mason_river.asp Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Director of Conservation Programs The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ################### From: dinesh at ndbib.lanka.net (Dinesh Fernando) Date: Thu Mar 3 19:58:15 2005 Subject: [CP] Nepenthes distillatoria seeds I have some seeds of Nepenthes distillatoria that I would like to trade for seeds of other tropical lowland nepenthes species (very interested in Nepenthes northiana), tropical pings, and Sarracenia flava and S. alata. If anybody's interested, please contact me off list. Best regards, Dinesh e-mail: dinesh@ndbib.lanka.net ################### From: john.wilden at hmce.gsi.gov.uk (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) Date: Thu Mar 3 23:53:02 2005 Subject: [CP] Mason river minor Hey Barry and all, There's a short article on carnivorous plants in Jamaica. Nothing of significant new learning to the educated subscribers of this list. However, there is the interesting news that S. rubra and S. minor have both been inserted into the Jamaican flora: http://www.jamaicachm.org.jm/Articles/mason_river.asp Do you know if the photo of S. Minor is from the Jamaican site? Are the 'ripples' in the front rib normal? I've never noticed this in any of my own cultivated S. Minor, or on any other photo's of S. Minor, that I've previously seen. Regards John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Fri Mar 4 14:01:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: cheao cps thank goodness -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: MHowlett at hcp4.net (Howlett, Mike) Date: Fri Mar 4 15:24:59 2005 Subject: [CP] Big Thicket (and CPs) in danger due to drilling Barry and all - It has come to my attention (from herpetological sources, of all things) that gas/oil drilling is being conducted in the Big Thicket National Preserve of East Texas, and that the BTNP is in danger of increased drilling. I can't tell you how much I enjoy visiting the preserve to gawk at the fields of S. alata, D. brevifolia, D. capillaris and P. pumila, and the thought of even just having to listen to the drone of drilling equipment in the background while 'communing with nature' really upsets me. The following is a letter that was drafted by another concerned individual, which he has offered to allow all interested persons to use to express their dissatisfaction with the current trend toward increasing drilling on public lands. The deadline for sending your comments is this coming Thursday, March 10. Thanks for your help! February 27, 2005 Ms. Linda Dansby, EIS Project Manager Office of Minerals/Oil and Gas Support, Intermountain Region P.O. Box 728 Santa Fe, New Mexico 87504-0728 Dear Ms. Dansby: I am writing to urge the National Park Service to take steps that will protect the Big Thicket National Preserve (BTNP) from further damage from oil and gas drilling. Specifically, I urge the NPS to explore alternatives that would purchase the mineral rights under the BTNP, and/or disallow further oil and gas activities on the surface of BTNP. Within the Draft Oil/Gas Management Plan (DOGMP) and Draft Environmental Impact Statement (DEIS), the best alternative is "C" and if mineral rights are not to be acquired and if drilling on the surface is not to be prohibited, then I ask you to pursue "Alternative C." However, rather than letting the DOGMP and DEIS stand, I recommend that you withdraw these two drafts and revise them to include a complete qualitative/quantitative cumulative effects analysis, assessment, and evaluation based on the document, "Considering Cumulative Effects Under the National Environmental Policy Act." I object to any drilling in BTNP because of the habitat fragmentation and damage from the infrastructure needed for drilling, the toxic chemicals that may pollute the soil and water, and the noise and other factors that may adversely affect wildlife and most certainly would adversely affect human visitors. The Big Thicket is an irreplaceable, unique resource. It has already been reduced to a small fragment of its original scale. We must preserve what is left. Sincerely, Mike Howlett Naturalist, Herpetoculturist & Carnivorous Plant Enthusiast Jesse H. Jones Park & Nature Center 20634 Kenswick Drive Humble, TX 77338 281-446-8588 mhowlett@hcp4.net www.hcp4.net/jones > Hey Everyone, > Ivan I have heard that some Drosera do that sometimes. > Unfortunatly another bog is being destroyed. One in mississippi due > to oil drilling. I am not sure what Sarracenia are their yet but I > know it has D. capillaris. I hope permits are obtained in time to > rescue some plants. > > >Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. >Director of Conservation Programs >The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Sat Mar 5 13:30:00 2005 Subject: [CP] D. rotundifolia cultivar 'Charles Darwin'? Hi CPers, I am toying with the idea of registering a Drosera rotundifolia cultivar and wanted to run it by you all to see what you think. Many of you will know the unregistered cultivar that has gone around under the name EverGrow. Some have already expressed the opinion that this name is not suitable, and I have another idea now: Charles Darwin was one of us CPers, and was especially fond of the round-leaf sundew. Much of his book on CP was devoted to this plant. I would like to see a cultivar in honor of his name. Since EverGrow's uncharacteristic growth habit demonstrates the fallacy of the supposed "immutability of species" as Darwin showed, perhaps a cultivar 'Charles Darwin' is fitting? Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: RL7836 at earthlink.net (Ron Lane) Date: Sat Mar 5 18:07:10 2005 Subject: [CP] VFTs for Trade I finally got around to repotting my VFTs and it looks like I've got some spares: - Fused Tooth - Sawtooth - Shark's teeth / Dentate traps - Dingley's red/purple & possibly some others (Red Dragon, All Green, etc.) I'm looking for plants (or possibly seeds) of: - D. linearis - D. regia - D. prolifera, - D. falconeri, - D. petiolaris, - D. falconeri X D. petiolaris hybrid - N. ampullaria - VFTs that I do not have (request list if interested) - All-red S. flava from NC If you're interested in trading VFT or Sarracenia (for plants I do not have), let me know, I'll probably be doing Sarracenia next w/e. Also, if there are any teachers who would like some CP for school exhibits/instruction/etc - any spares may be available for postage - contact me. Please do not reply to list - I will ignore it. USA only. Ron Lane RL7836@earthlink.net Hunterdon County, NJ, USA ################### From: paul.temple at eds.com (Temple, Paul) Date: Sun Mar 6 10:29:16 2005 Subject: [CP] To CP Listserver Moderator (or anyone who understands) Hi. I just sent a couple of emails to the CP Listserver. I got back two bounce messages. Each email was "held" by the listserver, i.e. not posted, for the moderator to revue. The reason given was: "Message has a suspicious header" I posted the email from my PDA, a Treo 600 and it's highly unlikely it's got a virus. Email account is same as the one I'm using to send this. If the moderator or someone can tell me what the problem is I'd be keen to know! Paul ################### From: CALIFCARN at aol.com (CALIFCARN@aol.com) Date: Sun Mar 6 14:09:43 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Darwin cultivar ################### From: CSTERCHELE at aol.com (CSTERCHELE@aol.com) Date: Sun Mar 6 17:56:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Hello - My name is Cynthia. ################### From: sardonus at yahoo.com (Hamish McKellar) Date: Sun Mar 6 21:33:59 2005 Subject: [CP] Hello - My name is Cynthia. Cynthia, Welcome to CP fever. A you will find, it is an incurable and terribly expensive affliction. However it doesn't appear to be contagious (just ask the suffering partners of an sufferer). Some useful fora in relation to CP, including Nepenthes are: Terraforums: http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin/ib312/ikonboard.cgi CPUK Forum: http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/index.php These two are the most active, and deal with many basic questions. As for your questions re your N. Miranda, it is a highland hybrid, the older pitchers usually dry up after the shock of transportation, environmental change and repotting. The new pitchers will adapt to the new growing conditions (within reason). I'm not quite sure what the sphagnum peat is that you referred to is, but Nepenthes (unlike Sarracenia)like a free-draining, airy mix. So sphagnum moss, often mixed with things such as orchid bark, perlite and coconut husk, is a good mix for most highland species. Some lowlanders don't mind a more peaty mix, but none I've grown have ever objected to sphagnum. As for acclimatising your other CPs, it depends on how different your outdoor climate is. One idea is to take them out and put them over them a plastic container (keeping them out of the sun of course), slowly open the container over a period of weeks to let them adjust gradually. The older growth will often die off, but the new growth should adapt. Cheers, Hamish http://www.nepenthesforeveryone.com --- CSTERCHELE@aol.com wrote: > Hello - My name is Cynthia. I live in Central > Florida. Gardening has been my > passion in life for years, but somehow, I never had > any CPs until recently. > Now I'm hooked! I joined this discussion group a > week ago because I have > soooo much to learn. I received an email saying > it's customary to send a self > introduction --- so here it is. Although I've been > reading the daily > mailings, I must admit, most of the content is way > over my head. I need to find a > "CP for Dummies" discussion group. A mere three > months ago, I bought my first > carnivorous plant. I was in Home Depot and saw a > Nepenthes Miranda. I fell in > love. After I bought the Nep, I went straight to a > book store and picked up > two books: "The Savage Garden" (D'Amato) and > "Gardening with Carnivores" > (Romanowski). About six weeks ago, I bought a > Sarracenia purpurea. I keep the > Nep and Sarracenia outside on my front porch. Since > buying the two plants, I > repotted them in larger pots with a mix of sphagnum > peat and perlite. I water > the plants with distilled water, and mist them > daily. The Sarracenia is > doing fantastic. The Nep is okay, but I don't > think it's in perfect condition. > Most of the pitchers have dried up. On the positive > side, the plant has lots > of new growth to include tendrils with baby hooks > (that I hope will become > pitchers). This weekend, I made the mistake of > going to Lowe's. While there, I > saw a shelf with CPs in little plastic boxes. I > ended up buying a little > VFT and a Sundew. I want to transition these plants > from their miniature > terrariums to my porch (along with my other CPs). I > haven't a clue if this is > doable, nor do I know how to minimize the shock > from a significant environment > change. Any help would be greatly appreciated. > Here's my top three questions > -- 1) Should I cut off Nep pitchers that have > dried up? 2) Is the Miranda a > highland or lowland species? The tag didn't say. > 3) How should I > transition the VFT and Sundew from the plastic boxes > to my front porch? > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Sun Mar 6 21:46:48 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Darwin cultivar "Charlie's Paddle"? Gary Kong CALIFCARN@aol.com wrote: >Ivan, I've been thinking of a Darwin cultivar for many years, and think >your plants would be so apt since Darwin, according to a letter he >wrote to Asa Gray, said "I care more about sundews than the origin of >all the species of life on earth." How about "Chuck Darwin"? Seeya, >Peter at California Carnivores. >_______________________________________________ Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: n.bellii at netzero.net (n.bellii@netzero.net) Date: Mon Mar 7 04:45:15 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Drosera "Charles Darwin" Hello Ivan, I think it would be a great name for the cultivar! I don't recall the exact quote, but I believe I recall reading that Darwin thought if he had spent his whole life studying Drosera, he would have avoided much of the controversy around him. Ya, right! (are you certain your plant is a pure _D. rotundifolia_ species, or should we all argue about it?) Steven Stewart Florida, USA ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Mon Mar 7 10:50:51 2005 Subject: [CP] Tough love reminder Hey Folks, Well, I just had about 8 hours sucked out of my life this weekend, preparing reminder postcards for all 788 ICPS members who have not yet renewed their memberships for this year (and lapsed members from 2003). That's a lot of mailing labels, and a lot of self-adhesive stamps. I think that the fingerprints on my hands have been pulled off. I'm a little grumpy about it right now, so don't send me any apologies---they won't be well-received. Instead, just send Cindy Slezak (cslezak@earthlink.net) your annual membership payment ($25). Just send her the payment via credit card or check or cash, and include your name and mailing address. She'll take care of the rest. And for the next few days, if you happen to see this very grumpy CPN editor walking along the street, your best bet would be to cross the street before he reached you. Later! Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Grumpy Coeditor The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Mon Mar 7 12:23:00 2005 Subject: [CP] bladder and butte worts germination? If you grew any of these from seeds,how long it took for them to germinate for you? And what is your method? Trying Grow From Seeds: Horned Bladderwort Utricularia carnuta Southern Bladderwort Utricularia juncea Violet Butterwort Pinguicula caerulea Yellow Butterwort Pinguicula lutea Dwarf Butterwort Pinguicula pumila Venus Flytrap Dionaea muscipala var. heterophlla Wolf ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Mon Mar 7 12:24:56 2005 Subject: [CP] Welcome Cynthia Welcome to our group Cynthia. Obviously, you're another mug that fell for that one one about putting something about yourself on the listserv. I think that Rick must have left that on accidently, on the 'help' instructions. We all fall for that one. You only have to put'David Ahrens' into Google these days, and you get my introduction to the listserv, and some cancer specialist in Massachusetts. Only joking, it's rather nice to see who is out there, don't let me put you off. You'll have to see if you like the UK forum, I don't, but every other nutter seems to. I got myself banned from it a while back, the moderators are so touchy, something to do with my nymphomaniac sister, and a boy who had an illness that was based on fantasy. Enjoy the listserv, it can get heated sometimes, but we all enjoy it that way. Rule number one, no poofters ! Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: ksanders at clas.ufl.edu (Keith Sanders) Date: Mon Mar 7 12:30:25 2005 Subject: [CP] Hello - My name is Cynthia. Hi Cynthia, I live in Gainesville. I've had pretty good luck using a peat/sand mix for my Sarracenia and VFT's, and pure spaghnum for Nepenthes and Pinguilata. So far, that is. I'm still a relative newbie, despite being interested in them for a few years now. Our Lowes carries the plastic boxes too. I've only purchased one so far - a Darlingtonia. I wasn't able to keep it alive though - I understand that they're picky about the temperatures that they're kept in, so Florida is a little too warm for them, I think. If I remember right, it came potted in spaghnum moss, so it wasn't a big deal to eventually move it outside. They're pretty hardy, so I imagine that you won't have any problems transplanting them into another terrarium outside. thanks, Keith CSTERCHELE@aol.com wrote: > Hello - My name is Cynthia. I live in Central Florida. Gardening has > been my passion in life for years, but somehow, I never had any CPs > until recently. Now I'm hooked! I joined this discussion group a > week ago because I have soooo much to learn. I received an email > saying it's customary to send a self introduction --- so here it is. > Although I've been reading the daily mailings, I must admit, most of > the content is way over my head. I need to find a "CP for Dummies" > discussion group. A mere three months ago, I bought my first > carnivorous plant. I was in Home Depot and saw a Nepenthes Miranda. > I fell in love. After I bought the Nep, I went straight to a book > store and picked up two books: "The Savage Garden" (D'Amato) and > "Gardening with Carnivores" (Romanowski). About six weeks ago, I > bought a Sarracenia purpurea. I keep the Nep and Sarracenia outside > on my front porch. Since buying the two plants, I repotted them in > larger pots with a mix of sphagnum peat and perlite. I water the > plants with distilled water, and mist them daily. The Sarracenia is > doing fantastic. The Nep is okay, but I don't think it's in perfect > condition. Most of the pitchers have dried up. On the positive side, > the plant has lots of new growth to include tendrils with baby hooks > (that I hope will become pitchers). This weekend, I made the mistake > of going to Lowe's. While there, I saw a shelf with CPs in little > plastic boxes. I ended up buying a little VFT and a Sundew. I want > to transition these plants from their miniature terrariums to my porch > (along with my other CPs). I haven't a clue if this is doable, nor do > I know how to minimize the shock from a significant environment > change. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Here's my top three > questions -- 1) Should I cut off Nep pitchers that have dried up? 2) > Is the Miranda a highland or lowland species? The tag didn't say. 3) > How should I transition the VFT and Sundew from the plastic boxes to > my front porch? _______________________________________________ Cp > mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com -- Keith Sanders Systems Programmer CLASnet - College of Liberal Arts Network University of Florida PO Box 112034 Gainesville, FL 32611 ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Mon Mar 7 12:55:38 2005 Subject: [CP] Welcome Cynthia Well, speak for yourself, mate. I never did post anything at all about myself, and thus retain my mysterious hermitic profile to the majority of the great unwashed out there. In a message dated 3/7/2005 12:25:40 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, nepenthesdave@hotmail.com writes: Obviously, you're another mug that fell for that one one about putting something about yourself on the listserv. I think that Rick must have left that on accidently, on the 'help' instructions. We all fall for that one. TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (fe_riva) Date: Mon Mar 7 13:19:31 2005 Subject: [CP] Tough love reminder And don't forget that Barry is a karate black belt!!!!!!!!!! 8-0 > > Hey Folks, > > Well, I just had about 8 hours sucked out of my life this weekend, preparing > reminder postcards for all 788 ICPS members who have not yet renewed their > memberships for this year (and lapsed members from 2003). > > That's a lot of mailing labels, and a lot of self-adhesive stamps. I think > that the fingerprints on my hands have been pulled off. > > I'm a little grumpy about it right now, so don't send me any > apologies---they won't be well-received. Instead, just send Cindy Slezak > (cslezak@earthlink.net) your annual membership payment ($25). Just send her > the payment via credit card or check or cash, and include your name and > mailing address. She'll take care of the rest. > > And for the next few days, if you happen to see this very grumpy CPN editor > walking along the street, your best bet would be to cross the street before > he reached you. > > Later! > > Barry > > Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. > Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Grumpy Coeditor > The International Carnivorous Plant Society > http://www.carnivorousplants.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com __________________________________________________________________________ Acabe com aquelas janelinhas que pulam na sua tela. AntiPop-up UOL - ? gr?tis! http://antipopup.uol.com.br/ ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Mon Mar 7 17:00:27 2005 Subject: [CP] Photos of rare Utricularia Hiroshi Wakabayashi has posted some of the only photos that I have seen of: U. fistulosa: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-fistul.htm U. hirta: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-hirta.htm U. holtzei: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-holtze.htm U. kamienskii: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-kamien.htm U. kimberleyensis: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-kimber.htm U. limosa: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-limosa.htm U. muelleri: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-muelle.htm U. punctata: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-puncta.htm U. purpureocaerulea: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-purpuo.htm U. quinquedentata: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-quinqu.htm U. singeriana: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-singer.htm U. triflora: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-triflo.htm -Bob- ################### From: nepenthes at borneoexotics.com (Borneo Exotics (Pvt) Ltd) Date: Mon Mar 7 20:31:48 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Tough love reminder Rob Cantley Borneo Exotics (Pvt) Ltd www.borneoexotics.com Oops! > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 10:50:37 -0800 > From: "Barry Rice" > Subject: [CP] Tough love reminder > To: > Cc: 'Cindy Slezak' > Message-ID: <200503071850.j27IobZF005993@havana.ucdavis.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > Hey Folks, > > Well, I just had about 8 hours sucked out of my life this > weekend, preparing > reminder postcards for all 788 ICPS members who have not yet > renewed their > memberships for this year (and lapsed members from 2003). > > That's a lot of mailing labels, and a lot of self-adhesive > stamps. I think > that the fingerprints on my hands have been pulled off. > > I'm a little grumpy about it right now, so don't send me any > apologies---they won't be well-received. Instead, just send > Cindy Slezak > (cslezak@earthlink.net) your annual membership payment ($25). > Just send her > the payment via credit card or check or cash, and include > your name and > mailing address. She'll take care of the rest. > > And for the next few days, if you happen to see this very > grumpy CPN editor > walking along the street, your best bet would be to cross the > street before > he reached you. > > Later! > > Barry > > Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. > Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Grumpy Coeditor > The International Carnivorous Plant Society > http://www.carnivorousplants.org > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > End of Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 7 > ********************************* > ################### From: mtalt at hort.net (Marge Talt) Date: Mon Mar 7 22:13:27 2005 Subject: [CP] APHIS proposed changes to nursery stock regulations Dear All, You may or may not be aware that USDA-APHIS is proposing major changes in the regulations for the importation of nursery stock, i.e. what they are now calling "plants for planting", which means ALL plant parts capable of growing - rooted and non-rooted cuttings and plants, seeds, corms, bulbs and tubers. This post is late in the day since the public comment period ends Thursday, March 10, however I have not had a chance to write about this until now for various reasons I will not bore you with. First, I apologize to those of you on more than one of the lists I'm posting this on, but I think it's important to try to summarize the main points of the proposed regulation that affect nursery and plantspeople the most....at least my take on it after many readings of same. It is VERY important that everyone in the nursery or green industry get busy and read this document and post your comments; it's going to affect your business and you might as well let them know about it before the fact rather than after the fact when it is too late for your comments to do any good. To find the docket go to: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ppd/rad/webrepor/ppq.html scroll down to: Docket # 03-069-1 - APHIS-2004-0024 - Nursery Stock Regulations The docket is available in .pdf format You can also read current comments online. This is a complex document. It appears that APHIS is caught between a rock and a hard place here. * They seriously lack the information necessary to propose intelligent and workable changes to the current regulations. * They are required by law to propose these changes. * They have a mandate to protect this country from ALL pests, of all types, now known, unknown or as yet undiscovered. This is not a realistic goal, but it is their mandate by law. * They are also required by law to NOT adversely affect small business and international trade by any regulations they enact. * They must also comply with the mandates of the WTO-SPS treaty. * They are not funded for any new programs or additional personnel nor does additional funding look like it will be available any time in the foreseeable future. * They are requesting specific information from the public to assist them in formulating changes to current regulations via the Federal Register - a document read by few, but the primary way that they currently announce what they are doing. Thus, news of their proposals takes a long time to trickle down to those most affected by them. Most of the information they seek; indeed, most of the specific questions they ask, can best be answered by those in the nursery industry. However, that does not mean that we can't add our input from our own points of view. If you know the answer to any of their specific questions or if you have any advice to give them on how they can obtain the answers they seek, please provide this via their web form, email or snail mail. (See the end of this post for more specific information on sending in comments.) If you do not have time to read and digest the full docket, then may I suggest that you post a comment requesting an extension in the public comment period. I understand that they are giving consideration to this proposal. They are requesting information on the number of nurseries and the number and types of taxa being imported today; they are requesting input on how best to obtain this information. They are trying to find out just how their proposed changes would affect the industry; whether (and how) or not their proposals for a Clean Stock Program and a Best Management Program would affect nursery businesses. Currently, unless otherwise prohibited, all taxa are permitted entry with a phyto. Given their mandate to restrict the entrance of all pests, they are considering options for doing this including: * Using the criteria of quantity, considering taxa that are already being imported in quantity to be considered 'safe' and permitted to continue to be imported. * Requiring a PRA (Plant Risk Analysis) prior to entry for anything that is currently NOT being imported in quantity. They are concerned that this would bury them in an avalanche of requests for PRAs, for which they do not have personnel nor funding, so, to avoid this, they are considering: ** Restricting entry to plants already imported in quantity OR those coming from an approved Clean Stock Program OR those going to a nursery with a Best Management Program in place. The Clean Stock program would be worked out with exporting nations and partially controlled by them with APHIS oversight (no funding for this at this point). The Clean Stock Program sounds like it's a nice idea, but it has serious flaws and it is highly likely that only very large importers would be able to participate. One nurseryman posted a comment pointing out that the program only works for certain types of crops. ** Developing a list of taxa that can be imported - which would be based on those now being imported in quantity. All NEW taxa OR taxa not now being imported in quantity would be restricted pending a PRA (which is unlikely to happen quickly, given their funding limitations). This is the Clean List that has been simmering on the back burner ever since it was recommended by the Safeguarding group about 5 or 6 years ago. Given that they lack vital data, they are working from a 'quantity' point of view in proposing to allow only taxa already imported in quantity to be considered 'safe'. This point of view favors only big business and would be very detrimental to small nursery operations. It would also be devastating to all private individuals who wish to import plants for their own use. It would certainly put a stop to all plant exploration and the introduction of new taxa. >From our point of view, as keen gardeners, the 'clean list' approach would be a disaster since it would mean that ALL taxa not already imported in large quantities would be severely restricted - even those which have been safely grown in this country in small quantities for many years. >From the point of view of small nurseries, it would also be a disaster because it would mean that newly developed cultivars that are the latest and greatest across the pond could not be sold here - the lifeblood of nurseries - 'new' - would stop. The only way you'd get the plant is via the black market which would put you at risk since they are also proposing penalties for importers not complying with the proposed regs. They are also considering combining current specific regulations into one regulation and ask some specific questions about the public's views on this. While I do not innately trust government agencies, it appears that APHIS is truly asking for input; they need it badly and it appears that constructive comments will be considered. This is not the venue to vent frustrations concerning their past or current policies nor to ride any personal hobby horses. Comments need to address what they are requesting and the proposals they are making. If you have personal experience or scientific data to back up your comments, that's all to the good. Now, all of this is only PROPOSED at this time. It's NOT law. But, something will become law - it has to; they have no choice. In my view, no matter what you think about importing plants, pests or any of the many other philosophical issues surrounding plants, it is imperative that APHIS understand the magnitude of the effect of their proposals on the livelihood of small nurseries as well as the ability of keen plantspeople to pursue their avocations and interests. APHIS has asked for input. We need to help educate them. They really have no clue. Someone posted on one of the lists that they didn't think comments from non-US citizens would make a difference. If you operate a small nursery or green industry business that would be adversely affected by the proposed regulations, your input could very well make a difference since they are also bound by WTO-SPS treaty. Your comments, if also sent to your representatives in the WTO (World Trade Organization), may be influential. The main point is that ALL involved in the green industry need to comment and ALL of us who care about our ability to acquire and grow new taxa without going through onerous regulatory hoops need to comment. If you say nothing except "please extend the comment period", your time will have been well spent. The current comment period is open through this Thursday, March 10, 2005. Comments can be submitted by postal mail, commercial delivery, e-mail or using the form on the docket site: Via snail mail or delivery service: Send an original and three copies of postal mail or commercial delivery comments to: Docket No. 03-069-1 Regulatory Analysis and Development PPD, APHIS, Station 3C71 4700 River Road Unit 118 Riverdale, MD 20737-1238 Via email: e-mail comments to regulations@aphis.usda.gov. E-mail comments must be contained in the body the message; do not send attached files. Please include your name and address in the body of the message and type "Docket No. 03-069-1" on the subject line. To submit comments online, go to http://snipurl.com/dakm Click on any of the 'submit comment' links and follow instructions. If you have a long comment (over 2000 characters) compose it in your word processor and send it as an attachment - see the instructions for the types of files they can accept. It will then be posted as a pdf file. Marge Talt, zone 7 Maryland mtalt@hort.net Editor: Gardening in Shade Shadyside Garden Designs ----------------------------------------------- Current Article: Plant Exchange http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/shade_gardening ------------------------------------------------ Complete Index of Articles by Category and Date http://mtalt.hort.net/article-index.html ################### From: john.wilden at hmce.gsi.gov.uk (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) Date: Mon Mar 7 23:30:41 2005 Subject: [CP] Darwin cultivars How about "Chuck Darwin"? Seeya, Peter at California Carnivores. "Charlie's Paddle"? Arrrghh! NO! NO! NO! Show some respect to a giant in the CP world. It should be Charles Darwin, although this link showed that he was indeed known as Charley or Bobby when he was a child http://www.aboutdarwin.com/darwin/WhoWas.html :) Regards John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ################### From: john.wilden at hmce.gsi.gov.uk (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) Date: Mon Mar 7 23:36:57 2005 Subject: [CP] peat I'm not quite sure what the sphagnum peat is that you referred to is, Hamish, Its just describing where the peat came from (sphagnum bogs) and is the 'proper' peat for keeping CP's. There is another type which is reputed to be slightly alkaline and is darker than the sphag peat and its this that you should really avoid (sorry can't remember the descriptive term for it- the brain cells haven't yet had time to wake up). Regards John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ################### From: CTSsangha at aol.com (CTSsangha@aol.com) Date: Tue Mar 8 08:19:11 2005 Subject: [CP] peat In a message dated 3/8/05 2:37:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, john.wilden@hmce.gsi.gov.uk writes: slightly alkaline and is darker than the sphag peat and its this that you should really avoid (sorry can't remember the descriptive term for it- the brain cells haven't yet had time to wake up). Sedge peat?? ################### From: ddarnows at ius.edu (Darnowski, Douglas William) Date: Tue Mar 8 08:37:16 2005 Subject: [CP] Plants Available My collection is getting back to speed and some species are getting overgrown again. The following are available for sale. I'd also consider trades, esp. for orchid-flowered Utrics and some pygmy Drosera. Doug Darnowski Genlisea hispidula $13 G. hispidula "Pink" $20 Utricularia minutissima $8 U. livida $5 U. praelonga $8 U. longifolia $10 U. warburgii $12 U. calcyfida $7 Drosera adelae $6 Jewel Orchid (not a cp, but gorgeous leaves) $8 ################### From: jeann at hungryplants.com (Jean Nel) Date: Tue Mar 8 12:12:45 2005 Subject: [CP] automated response Thank you for your email I am on a business trip until the 25 th March 2005 and will attend to your email when I return. ___________________________________________________________ $0 Web Hosting with up to 120MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Tue Mar 8 13:20:50 2005 Subject: [CP] re: sundew seeds ok, i know this is going to sound stupid, but what do sundew seeds look like? i collected a flower stalk (which had time to to from pods) from one of the plants in my schools cp tank and i cracked the pods open and the only thing i could find was these really small black things that looked like seeds but im not sure, do to the size of them, they could be dirt!? but any way i sowed these on the the surface of some peat?sand and i was wondering if what i have are sundew seeds? ----- Original Message ----- To: Cp@omnisterra.com > > Send Cp mailing list submissions to > Cp@omnisterra.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > Cp-request@omnisterra.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > Cp-owner@omnisterra.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Cp digest..." > > > CP Mailing list > > Today's Topics: > > 1. bladder and butte worts germination? (Harry Q) > 2. Welcome Cynthia (David Ahrens) > 3. Re: Hello - My name is Cynthia. (Keith Sanders) > 4. Re: Welcome Cynthia (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) > 5. Re:Tough love reminder (fe_riva) > 6. Photos of rare Utricularia (Robert Ziemer) > 7. RE: Tough love reminder (Borneo Exotics (Pvt) Ltd) > 8. APHIS proposed changes to nursery stock regulations (Marge Talt) > 9. Darwin cultivars (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) > 10. peat (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) > 11. Re: peat (CTSsangha@aol.com) > 12. Plants Available (Darnowski, Douglas William) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 15:22:51 -0500 > From: "Harry Q" > Subject: [CP] bladder and butte worts germination? > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > If you grew any of these from seeds,how long it took for them to germinate > for you? And what is your method? > > Trying Grow From Seeds: > > Horned Bladderwort Utricularia carnuta > Southern Bladderwort Utricularia juncea > Violet Butterwort Pinguicula caerulea > Yellow Butterwort Pinguicula lutea > Dwarf Butterwort Pinguicula pumila > Venus Flytrap Dionaea muscipala var. heterophlla > > Wolf > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 20:24:39 +0000 > From: "David Ahrens" > Subject: [CP] Welcome Cynthia > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > Welcome to our group Cynthia. > Obviously, you're another mug that fell for that one one about putting > something about yourself on the listserv. I think that Rick must have left > that on accidently, on the 'help' instructions. We all fall for that one. > You only have to put'David Ahrens' into Google these days, and you get my > introduction to the listserv, and some cancer specialist in Massachusetts. > Only joking, it's rather nice to see who is out there, don't let me put you > off. > You'll have to see if you like the UK forum, I don't, but every other nutter > seems to. I got myself banned from it a while back, the moderators are so > touchy, something to do with my nymphomaniac sister, and a boy who had an > illness that was based on fantasy. > Enjoy the listserv, it can get heated sometimes, but we all enjoy it that > way. Rule number one, no poofters ! > Regards > David Ahrens > London. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 15:29:13 -0500 > From: Keith Sanders > Subject: Re: [CP] Hello - My name is Cynthia. > To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > Message-ID: <422CB999.3000702@clas.ufl.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > > Hi Cynthia, > > I live in Gainesville. I've had pretty good luck using a peat/sand mix > for my Sarracenia and VFT's, and pure spaghnum for Nepenthes and > Pinguilata. So far, that is. I'm still a relative newbie, despite being > interested in them for a few years now. > > Our Lowes carries the plastic boxes too. I've only purchased one so far > - a Darlingtonia. I wasn't able to keep it alive though - I understand > that they're picky about the temperatures that they're kept in, so > Florida is a little too warm for them, I think. If I remember right, it > came potted in spaghnum moss, so it wasn't a big deal to eventually move > it outside. They're pretty hardy, so I imagine that you won't have any > problems transplanting them into another terrarium outside. > > thanks, > Keith > > > CSTERCHELE@aol.com wrote: > > > Hello - My name is Cynthia. I live in Central Florida. Gardening > > has been my passion in life for years, but somehow, I never had > > any CPs until recently. Now I'm hooked! I joined this > > discussion group a week ago because I have soooo much to learn. > > I received an email saying it's customary to send a self > > introduction --- so here it is. Although I've been reading the > > daily mailings, I must admit, most of the content is way over my > > head. I need to find a "CP for Dummies" discussion group. A mere > > three months ago, I bought my first carnivorous plant. I was in > > Home Depot and saw a Nepenthes Miranda. I fell in love. After I > > bought the Nep, I went straight to a book store and picked up > > two books: "The Savage Garden" (D'Amato) and "Gardening with > > Carnivores" (Romanowski). About six weeks ago, I bought a > > Sarracenia purpurea. I keep the Nep and Sarracenia outside on my > > front porch. Since buying the two plants, I repotted them in > > larger pots with a mix of sphagnum peat and perlite. I water > > the plants with distilled water, and mist them daily. The > > Sarracenia is doing fantastic. The Nep is okay, but I don't > > think it's in perfect condition. Most of the pitchers have dried > > up. On the positive side, the plant has lots of new growth to > > include tendrils with baby hooks (that I hope will become > > pitchers). This weekend, I made the mistake of going to Lowe's. > > While there, I saw a shelf with CPs in little plastic boxes. I > > ended up buying a little VFT and a Sundew. I want to transition > > these plants from their miniature terrariums to my porch (along > > with my other CPs). I haven't a clue if this is doable, nor do > > I know how to minimize the shock from a significant environment > > change. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Here's my top > > three questions -- 1) Should I cut off Nep pitchers that have > > dried up? 2) Is the Miranda a highland or lowland species? The > > tag didn't say. 3) How should I transition the VFT and Sundew > > from the plastic boxes to my front porch? > > _______________________________________________ > > Cp mailing list > > Cp@omnisterra.com > > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > -- > > Keith Sanders > Systems Programmer > CLASnet - College of Liberal Arts Network > University of Florida > PO Box 112034 > Gainesville, FL 32611 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 15:55:21 EST > From: HmrTheHrmt@aol.com > Subject: Re: [CP] Welcome Cynthia > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <84.40c87a4d.2f5e19b9@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > Well, speak for yourself, mate. I never did post anything at all about > myself, and thus retain my mysterious hermitic profile to the majority of the > great unwashed out there. > > > In a message dated 3/7/2005 12:25:40 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > nepenthesdave@hotmail.com writes: > > Obviously, you're another mug that fell for that one one about putting > something about yourself on the listserv. I think that Rick must have left > that on accidently, on the 'help' instructions. We all fall for that one. > > > > > > > > TTFN > > > Hamir the Hermit > > > "And there you have another example of how, > while life for you is getting bigger and better, > for someone else in the world, > it's getting smaller and worse." > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 18:25:05 -0300 > From: "fe_riva" > Subject: Re:[CP] Tough love reminder > To: "Cp" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > And don't forget that Barry is a karate black belt!!!!!!!!!! 8-0 > > > > > Hey Folks, > > > > Well, I just had about 8 hours sucked out of my life this weekend, preparing > > reminder postcards for all 788 ICPS members who have not yet renewed their > > memberships for this year (and lapsed members from 2003). > > > > That's a lot of mailing labels, and a lot of self-adhesive stamps. I think > > that the fingerprints on my hands have been pulled off. I'm a > > little grumpy about it right now, so don't send me any > > apologies---they won't be well-received. Instead, just send Cindy Slezak > > (cslezak@earthlink.net) your annual membership payment ($25). Just send her > > the payment via credit card or check or cash, and include your name and > > mailing address. She'll take care of the rest. > > > > And for the next few days, if you happen to see this very grumpy CPN editor > > walking along the street, your best bet would be to cross the street before > > he reached you. > > > > Later! > > > > Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. > > Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Grumpy Coeditor > > The International Carnivorous Plant Society > > http://www.carnivorousplants.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cp mailing list > > Cp@omnisterra.com > > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > __________________________________________________________________________ > Acabe com aquelas janelinhas que pulam na sua tela. > AntiPop-up UOL - ? gr?tis! > http://antipopup.uol.com.br/ > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 16:58:46 -0800 > From: Robert Ziemer > Subject: [CP] Photos of rare Utricularia > To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > Message-ID: <422CF8C6.7020802@humboldt.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > Hiroshi Wakabayashi has posted some of the only photos that I have seen of: > U. fistulosa: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-fistul.htm > U. hirta: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-hirta.htm > U. holtzei: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-holtze.htm > U. kamienskii: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-kamien.htm > U. kimberleyensis: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-kimber.htm > U. limosa: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-limosa.htm > U. muelleri: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-muelle.htm > U. punctata: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-puncta.htm > U. purpureocaerulea: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-purpuo.htm > U. quinquedentata: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-quinqu.htm > U. singeriana: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-singer.htm > U. triflora: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-triflo.htm > > -Bob- > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 10:30:49 +0600 > From: "Borneo Exotics \(Pvt\) Ltd" > Subject: [CP] RE: Tough love reminder > To: > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > Rob Cantley > Borneo Exotics (Pvt) Ltd > www.borneoexotics.com > > > Oops! > > > > > Message: 6 > > Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 10:50:37 -0800 > > From: "Barry Rice" > > Subject: [CP] Tough love reminder > > To: > > Cc: 'Cindy Slezak' > > Message-ID: <200503071850.j27IobZF005993@havana.ucdavis.edu> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > > > Hey Folks, > > > > Well, I just had about 8 hours sucked out of my life this weekend, preparing > > reminder postcards for all 788 ICPS members who have not yet renewed their > > memberships for this year (and lapsed members from 2003). > > > > That's a lot of mailing labels, and a lot of self-adhesive stamps. I think > > that the fingerprints on my hands have been pulled off. I'm a > > little grumpy about it right now, so don't send me any > > apologies---they won't be well-received. Instead, just send Cindy Slezak > > (cslezak@earthlink.net) your annual membership payment ($25). Just send her > > the payment via credit card or check or cash, and include your name and > > mailing address. She'll take care of the rest. > > > > And for the next few days, if you happen to see this very grumpy CPN editor > > walking along the street, your best bet would be to cross the street before > > he reached you. > > > > Later! > > > > Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. > > Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Grumpy Coeditor > > The International Carnivorous Plant Society > > http://www.carnivorousplants.org > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cp mailing list > > Cp@omnisterra.com > > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > > > End of Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 7 > > ********************************* > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 01:14:33 -0500 > From: "Marge Talt" > Subject: [CP] APHIS proposed changes to nursery stock regulations > To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Dear All, > > You may or may not be aware that USDA-APHIS is proposing major > changes in the regulations for the importation of nursery stock, i.e. > what they are now calling "plants for planting", which means ALL > plant parts capable of growing - rooted and non-rooted cuttings and > plants, seeds, corms, bulbs and tubers. > > This post is late in the day since the public comment period ends > Thursday, March 10, however I have not had a chance to write about > this until now for various reasons I will not bore you with. First, > I apologize to those of you on more than one of the lists I'm posting > this on, but I think it's important to try to summarize the main > points of the proposed regulation that affect nursery and > plantspeople the most....at least my take on it after many readings > of same. > > It is VERY important that everyone in the nursery or green industry > get busy and read this document and post your comments; it's going to > affect your business and you might as well let them know about it > before the fact rather than after the fact when it is too late for > your comments to do any good. > > To find the docket go to: > > http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ppd/rad/webrepor/ppq.html > > scroll down to: > > Docket # 03-069-1 - APHIS-2004-0024 - Nursery Stock Regulations > > The docket is available in .pdf format > > You can also read current comments online. > > This is a complex document. > > It appears that APHIS is caught between a rock and a hard place here. > > > * They seriously lack the information necessary to propose > intelligent and workable changes to the current regulations. > * They are required by law to propose these changes. > * They have a mandate to protect this country from ALL pests, of all > types, now known, unknown or as yet undiscovered. This is not a > realistic goal, but it is their mandate by law. > * They are also required by law to NOT adversely affect small > business and international trade by any regulations they enact. > * They must also comply with the mandates of the WTO-SPS treaty. > * They are not funded for any new programs or additional personnel > nor does additional funding look like it will be available any time > in the foreseeable future. > * They are requesting specific information from the public to assist > them in formulating changes to current regulations via the Federal > Register - a document read by few, but the primary way that they > currently announce what they are doing. Thus, news of their > proposals takes a long time to trickle down to those most affected by > them. > > Most of the information they seek; indeed, most of the specific > questions they ask, can best be answered by those in the nursery > industry. However, that does not mean that we can't add our input > from our own points of view. If you know the answer to any of their > specific questions or if you have any advice to give them on how they > can obtain the answers they seek, please provide this via their web > form, email or snail mail. (See the end of this post for more > specific information on sending in comments.) > > If you do not have time to read and digest the full docket, then may > I suggest that you post a comment requesting an extension in the > public comment period. I understand that they are giving > consideration to this proposal. > > They are requesting information on the number of nurseries and the > number and types of taxa being imported today; they are requesting > input on how best to obtain this information. They are trying to > find out just how their proposed changes would affect the industry; > whether (and how) or not their proposals for a Clean Stock Program > and a Best Management Program would affect nursery businesses. > > Currently, unless otherwise prohibited, all taxa are permitted entry > with a phyto. Given their mandate to restrict the entrance of all > pests, they are considering options for doing this including: > > * Using the criteria of quantity, considering taxa that are already > being imported in quantity to be considered 'safe' and permitted to > continue to be imported. > > * Requiring a PRA (Plant Risk Analysis) prior to entry for anything > that is currently NOT being imported in quantity. They are concerned > that this would bury them in an avalanche of requests for PRAs, for > which they do not have personnel nor funding, so, to avoid this, they > are considering: > > ** Restricting entry to plants already imported in quantity OR those > coming from an approved Clean Stock Program OR those going to a > nursery with a Best Management Program in place. The Clean Stock > program would be worked out with exporting nations and partially > controlled by them with APHIS oversight (no funding for this at this > point). The Clean Stock Program sounds like it's a nice idea, but it > has serious flaws and it is highly likely that only very large > importers would be able to participate. One nurseryman posted a > comment pointing out that the program only works for certain types of > crops. > > ** Developing a list of taxa that can be imported - which would be > based on those now being imported in quantity. All NEW taxa OR taxa > not now being imported in quantity would be restricted pending a PRA > (which is unlikely to happen quickly, given their funding > limitations). This is the Clean List that has been simmering on the > back burner ever since it was recommended by the Safeguarding group > about 5 or 6 years ago. > > Given that they lack vital data, they are working from a 'quantity' > point of view in proposing to allow only taxa already imported in > quantity to be considered 'safe'. This point of view favors only big > business and would be very detrimental to small nursery operations. > It would also be devastating to all private individuals who wish to > import plants for their own use. It would certainly put a stop to > all plant exploration and the introduction of new taxa. > > > From our point of view, as keen gardeners, the 'clean list' approach > would be a disaster since it would mean that ALL taxa not already > imported in large quantities would be severely restricted - even > those which have been safely grown in this country in small > quantities for many years. > > > From the point of view of small nurseries, it would also be a > disaster because it would mean that newly developed cultivars that > are the latest and greatest across the pond could not be sold here - > the lifeblood of nurseries - 'new' - would stop. The only way you'd > get the plant is via the black market which would put you at risk > since they are also proposing penalties for importers not complying > with the proposed regs. > > They are also considering combining current specific regulations into > one regulation and ask some specific questions about the public's > views on this. > > While I do not innately trust government agencies, it appears that > APHIS is truly asking for input; they need it badly and it appears > that constructive comments will be considered. This is not the venue > to vent frustrations concerning their past or current policies nor to > ride any personal hobby horses. Comments need to address what they > are requesting and the proposals they are making. If you have > personal experience or scientific data to back up your comments, > that's all to the good. > > Now, all of this is only PROPOSED at this time. It's NOT law. But, > something will become law - it has to; they have no choice. > > In my view, no matter what you think about importing plants, pests or > any of the many other philosophical issues surrounding plants, it is > imperative that APHIS understand the magnitude of the effect of their > proposals on the livelihood of small nurseries as well as the ability > of keen plantspeople to pursue their avocations and interests. APHIS > has asked for input. We need to help educate them. They really have > no clue. > > Someone posted on one of the lists that they didn't think comments > from non-US citizens would make a difference. If you operate a small > nursery or green industry business that would be adversely affected > by the proposed regulations, your input could very well make a > difference since they are also bound by WTO-SPS treaty. Your > comments, if also sent to your representatives in the WTO (World > Trade Organization), may be influential. > > The main point is that ALL involved in the green industry need to > comment and ALL of us who care about our ability to acquire and grow > new taxa without going through onerous regulatory hoops need to > comment. If you say nothing except "please extend the comment > period", your time will have been well spent. > > The current comment period is open through this Thursday, March 10, > 2005. Comments can be submitted by postal mail, commercial delivery, > e-mail or using the form on the docket site: > > Via snail mail or delivery service: > > Send an original and three copies of postal mail or commercial > delivery comments to: > > Docket No. 03-069-1 > Regulatory Analysis and Development > PPD, APHIS, Station 3C71 > 4700 River Road > Unit 118 > Riverdale, MD 20737-1238 > > Via email: > e-mail comments to regulations@aphis.usda.gov. > > E-mail comments must be contained in the body the message; do not > send attached files. Please include your name and address in the > body of the message and type "Docket No. 03-069-1" on the subject > line. > > To submit comments online, go to > > http://snipurl.com/dakm > > Click on any of the 'submit comment' links and follow instructions. > If you have a long comment (over 2000 characters) compose it in your > word processor and send it as an attachment - see the instructions > for the types of files they can accept. It will then be posted as a > pdf file. > > Marge Talt, zone 7 Maryland > mtalt@hort.net > Editor: Gardening in Shade > Shadyside Garden Designs > ----------------------------------------------- > Current Article: Plant Exchange > http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/shade_gardening > ------------------------------------------------ > Complete Index of Articles by Category and Date > http://mtalt.hort.net/article-index.html > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 07:31:47 -0000 > From: "Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}" > > Subject: [CP] Darwin cultivars > To: "CP chatgroup (E-mail)" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > How about "Chuck Darwin"? Seeya, Peter at California > Carnivores. > > "Charlie's Paddle"? > > > Arrrghh! NO! NO! NO! > Show some respect to a giant in the CP world. It should be Charles Darwin, > although this link showed that he was indeed known as Charley or Bobby when > he was a child > http://www.aboutdarwin.com/darwin/WhoWas.html :) > > Regards > > John Wilden > Southport > Lancashire. > UK > > > The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the > Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied > exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. > > On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 07:38:07 -0000 > From: "Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}" > > Subject: [CP] peat > To: "CP chatgroup (E-mail)" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > I'm not quite sure what the sphagnum peat is that you > referred to is, > > > Hamish, > > Its just describing where the peat came from (sphagnum bogs) and is the > 'proper' peat for keeping CP's. There is another type which is reputed to be > slightly alkaline and is darker than the sphag peat and its this that you > should really avoid (sorry can't remember the descriptive term for it- the > brain cells haven't yet had time to wake up). > > Regards > > > John Wilden > Southport > Lancashire. > UK > > > The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the > Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied > exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. > > On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 11:18:54 EST > From: CTSsangha@aol.com > Subject: Re: [CP] peat > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <7f.59633e88.2f5f2a6e@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > In a message dated 3/8/05 2:37:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, > john.wilden@hmce.gsi.gov.uk writes: > slightly alkaline and is darker than the sphag peat and its this that you > should really avoid (sorry can't remember the descriptive term for it- the > brain cells haven't yet had time to wake up). > Sedge peat?? > > Angie, SC > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 11:37:07 -0500 > From: "Darnowski, Douglas William" > Subject: [CP] Plants Available > To: > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > My collection is getting back to speed and some species are getting > overgrown again. The following are available for sale. I'd also > consider trades, esp. for orchid-flowered Utrics and some pygmy > Drosera. > > Doug Darnowski > > Genlisea hispidula $13 > G. hispidula "Pink" $20 > Utricularia minutissima $8 > U. livida $5 > U. praelonga $8 > U. longifolia $10 > U. warburgii $12 > U. calcyfida $7 > Drosera adelae $6 > Jewel Orchid (not a cp, but gorgeous leaves) $8 > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > End of Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 8 > ********************************* -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Tue Mar 8 13:49:40 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: mississippi bog, RE: non-natives, S. minor site Hey Everyone, Thanks Barry- I did. S. minor grows into orlando as well as with-in a mile of the beach some places so I am not suprised it can survive. The beach mayonly get frost once (32 degrees) and orlando in winter is not very cold well neither is the beach. The average winter temps here are 65. Well I found a huge S. minor site with a lot of genetic diversity. There are at least a hundred plants in the bog but I did not have my bog boots so I do not know yet. The best part is is that it is with in a mile from my house. Its the last place I would have expected them to be. Drosera intermedia (The first I have found here that is definitive), D. capillaris, D. brevifolia, Utricularia subulata, Pinguicula lutea, P. pumila (purple and white flower). The S. minor has some all red plants, some bronzed plants but mostly typical. I found one with 3 ft pitchers (They were dryed though). Seemed like an 'okee giant' out of range. This week end I will take the camera and tripod to take pictures. Its awesome. I knew my neighborhood used to be a bog. I unfortunatly found some eidence of that rhizome boring bug also. If only I could control burn the woods behind my house I could see if any S. minor survived and would grow again. Ivan Snyder can I have your addy again? I would like the identity of a Drosera confirmed. Unfortunaly I will only be able to send a few leaves but that should be enough. Tre ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Tue Mar 8 15:40:16 2005 Subject: [CP] re: sundew seeds Take a look at http://www.utricularia.net/sonstiges/samenbilder2.htm You will notice that not all sundew seeds look alike. jon mungeam wrote: > ok, i know this is going to sound stupid, but what do sundew seeds > look like? i collected a flower stalk (which had time to to from > pods) from one of the plants in my schools cp tank and i cracked the > pods open and the only thing i could find was these really small black > things that looked like seeds but im not sure, do to the size of them, > they could be dirt!? but any way i sowed these on the the surface of > some peat?sand and i was wondering if what i have are sundew seeds? ################### From: CSTERCHELE at aol.com (CSTERCHELE@aol.com) Date: Tue Mar 8 17:24:53 2005 Subject: [CP] Thanks - from Cynthia in Orlando, FL I want to thank everyone for the warm welcome, whether you wrote to me directly or via the mailing list. David A - Your response was hysterical. I shall look forward to witty commentary from you in the future. I do have one question, although I'll probably regret asking; however, I must: What's a poofter? Hamish - I believe you're right. I am suffering with CP Fever. On the bright side, I now have a name for the malady. Thanks for the response, as well as the web sites -- I've been checking them out. Trent / Michelle - Great information. I'll be in touch in the near future. One question -- My Nep has a few reddish-colored spots on the leaves. One of my books indicated the use of "Captan" for a fungicide. Would "Daconil" be okay to use? Cynthia Orlando, FL ################### From: stephenwd at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Davis) Date: Tue Mar 8 21:06:39 2005 Subject: [CP] re: sundew seeds For the most part, I just look for particles that are of consistent size and shape and I know aren't left over flower particles. This doesn't necessarily work if there are only a few seeds, then it's just experience and good guessing. All the Drosera seeds I've seen are incredibly small. Stephen Stephen Davis stephenwd@sbcglobal.net www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com -----Original Message----- Of Robert Ziemer Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 3:39 PM To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Take a look at http://www.utricularia.net/sonstiges/samenbilder2.htm You will notice that not all sundew seeds look alike. jon mungeam wrote: > ok, i know this is going to sound stupid, but what do sundew seeds look like? i collected a flower stalk (which had time to to from pods) from one of the plants in my schools cp tank and i cracked the pods open and the only thing i could find was these really small black things that looked like seeds but im not sure, do to the size of them, they could be dirt!? but any way i sowed these on the the surface of some peat?sand and i was wondering if what i have are sundew seeds? _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Tue Mar 8 22:40:57 2005 Subject: [CP] Thanks - from Cynthia in Orlando, FL Just one question, New Bruce. Are you a pooftah? In a message dated 3/8/2005 5:28:23 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, CSTERCHELE@aol.com writes: I do have one question, although I'll probably regret asking; however, I must: What's a poofter? TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: ronwes11 at comcast.net (Ron West) Date: Wed Mar 9 06:20:23 2005 Subject: [CP] re: sundew seeds I recommend getting a good magnifying lens. I purchased the type known as a loupe, which is often used by jewelers and gemologists. I got a great sense of confidence when I found that I could actually see the seed. Then you will know that you are not planting dirt. Not to mention being able to count seeds. Before this, I found that often I would plant way too many seeds, certainly with tiny sundew seed. Also, you may be able to compare what you have with images of seed to differentiate species. There are good seed images online. Many Drosera seeds can be seen at http://www.humboldt.edu/~rrz7001/Drosera.html. If you are interested, the loupe I got can be seen here http://www.geo-tools.com/lens.htm. Cheers, -Ron -----Original Message----- Of jon mungeam Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 1:28 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com ok, i know this is going to sound stupid, but what do sundew seeds look like? i collected a flower stalk (which had time to to from pods) from one of the plants in my schools cp tank and i cracked the pods open and the only thing i could find was these really small black things that looked like seeds but im not sure, do to the size of them, they could be dirt!? but any way i sowed these on the the surface of some peat?sand and i was wondering if what i have are sundew seeds? ----- Original Message ----- To: Cp@omnisterra.com > > Send Cp mailing list submissions to > Cp@omnisterra.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > Cp-request@omnisterra.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > Cp-owner@omnisterra.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Cp digest..." > > > CP Mailing list > > Today's Topics: > > 1. bladder and butte worts germination? (Harry Q) > 2. Welcome Cynthia (David Ahrens) > 3. Re: Hello - My name is Cynthia. (Keith Sanders) > 4. Re: Welcome Cynthia (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) > 5. Re:Tough love reminder (fe_riva) > 6. Photos of rare Utricularia (Robert Ziemer) > 7. RE: Tough love reminder (Borneo Exotics (Pvt) Ltd) > 8. APHIS proposed changes to nursery stock regulations (Marge Talt) > 9. Darwin cultivars (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) > 10. peat (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) > 11. Re: peat (CTSsangha@aol.com) > 12. Plants Available (Darnowski, Douglas William) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 15:22:51 -0500 > From: "Harry Q" > Subject: [CP] bladder and butte worts germination? > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > If you grew any of these from seeds,how long it took for them to > germinate for you? And what is your method? > > Trying Grow From Seeds: > > Horned Bladderwort Utricularia carnuta Southern Bladderwort > Utricularia juncea Violet Butterwort Pinguicula caerulea Yellow > Butterwort Pinguicula lutea Dwarf Butterwort Pinguicula pumila Venus > Flytrap Dionaea muscipala var. heterophlla > > Wolf > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 20:24:39 +0000 > From: "David Ahrens" > Subject: [CP] Welcome Cynthia > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > Welcome to our group Cynthia. > Obviously, you're another mug that fell for that one one about putting > something about yourself on the listserv. I think that Rick must have > left that on accidently, on the 'help' instructions. We all fall for that one. > You only have to put'David Ahrens' into Google these days, and you get > my introduction to the listserv, and some cancer specialist in Massachusetts. > Only joking, it's rather nice to see who is out there, don't let me > put you off. > You'll have to see if you like the UK forum, I don't, but every other > nutter seems to. I got myself banned from it a while back, the > moderators are so touchy, something to do with my nymphomaniac sister, > and a boy who had an illness that was based on fantasy. > Enjoy the listserv, it can get heated sometimes, but we all enjoy it > that way. Rule number one, no poofters ! > Regards > David Ahrens > London. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 15:29:13 -0500 > From: Keith Sanders > Subject: Re: [CP] Hello - My name is Cynthia. > To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > Message-ID: <422CB999.3000702@clas.ufl.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > > Hi Cynthia, > > I live in Gainesville. I've had pretty good luck using a peat/sand mix > for my Sarracenia and VFT's, and pure spaghnum for Nepenthes and > Pinguilata. So far, that is. I'm still a relative newbie, despite > being interested in them for a few years now. > > Our Lowes carries the plastic boxes too. I've only purchased one so > far > - a Darlingtonia. I wasn't able to keep it alive though - I understand > that they're picky about the temperatures that they're kept in, so > Florida is a little too warm for them, I think. If I remember right, > it came potted in spaghnum moss, so it wasn't a big deal to eventually > move it outside. They're pretty hardy, so I imagine that you won't > have any problems transplanting them into another terrarium outside. > > thanks, > Keith > > > CSTERCHELE@aol.com wrote: > > > Hello - My name is Cynthia. I live in Central Florida. Gardening > > has been my passion in life for years, but somehow, I never had any > > CPs until recently. Now I'm hooked! I joined this discussion > > group a week ago because I have soooo much to learn. > > I received an email saying it's customary to send a self > > introduction --- so here it is. Although I've been reading the > > daily mailings, I must admit, most of the content is way over my > > head. I need to find a "CP for Dummies" discussion group. A mere > > three months ago, I bought my first carnivorous plant. I was in Home > > Depot and saw a Nepenthes Miranda. I fell in love. After I bought > > the Nep, I went straight to a book store and picked up two books: > > "The Savage Garden" (D'Amato) and "Gardening with Carnivores" > > (Romanowski). About six weeks ago, I bought a Sarracenia purpurea. > > I keep the Nep and Sarracenia outside on my front porch. Since > > buying the two plants, I repotted them in larger pots with a mix of > > sphagnum peat and perlite. I water the plants with distilled > > water, and mist them daily. The Sarracenia is doing fantastic. > > The Nep is okay, but I don't think it's in perfect condition. Most > > of the pitchers have dried up. On the positive side, the plant has > > lots of new growth to include tendrils with baby hooks (that I hope > > will become pitchers). This weekend, I made the mistake of going > > to Lowe's. > > While there, I saw a shelf with CPs in little plastic boxes. I > > ended up buying a little VFT and a Sundew. I want to transition > > these plants from their miniature terrariums to my porch (along > > with my other CPs). I haven't a clue if this is doable, nor do I > > know how to minimize the shock from a significant environment > > change. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Here's my top three > > questions -- 1) Should I cut off Nep pitchers that have dried up? > > 2) Is the Miranda a highland or lowland species? The tag didn't > > say. 3) How should I transition the VFT and Sundew from the > > plastic boxes to my front porch? > > _______________________________________________ > > Cp mailing list > > Cp@omnisterra.com > > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > -- > > Keith Sanders > Systems Programmer > CLASnet - College of Liberal Arts Network University of Florida PO Box > 112034 Gainesville, FL 32611 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 15:55:21 EST > From: HmrTheHrmt@aol.com > Subject: Re: [CP] Welcome Cynthia > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <84.40c87a4d.2f5e19b9@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > Well, speak for yourself, mate. I never did post anything at all about > myself, and thus retain my mysterious hermitic profile to the majority of the > great unwashed out there. > > > In a message dated 3/7/2005 12:25:40 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > nepenthesdave@hotmail.com writes: > > Obviously, you're another mug that fell for that one one about putting > something about yourself on the listserv. I think that Rick must have left > that on accidently, on the 'help' instructions. We all fall for that one. > > > > > > > > TTFN > > > Hamir the Hermit > > > "And there you have another example of how, > while life for you is getting bigger and better, > for someone else in the world, > it's getting smaller and worse." > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 18:25:05 -0300 > From: "fe_riva" > Subject: Re:[CP] Tough love reminder > To: "Cp" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > And don't forget that Barry is a karate black belt!!!!!!!!!! 8-0 > > > > > Hey Folks, > > > > Well, I just had about 8 hours sucked out of my life this weekend, preparing > > reminder postcards for all 788 ICPS members who have not yet renewed their > > memberships for this year (and lapsed members from 2003). > > > > That's a lot of mailing labels, and a lot of self-adhesive stamps. I think > > that the fingerprints on my hands have been pulled off. I'm a > > little grumpy about it right now, so don't send me any > > apologies---they won't be well-received. Instead, just send Cindy Slezak > > (cslezak@earthlink.net) your annual membership payment ($25). Just send her > > the payment via credit card or check or cash, and include your name and > > mailing address. She'll take care of the rest. > > > > And for the next few days, if you happen to see this very grumpy CPN editor > > walking along the street, your best bet would be to cross the street before > > he reached you. > > > > Later! > > > > Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. > > Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Grumpy Coeditor > > The International Carnivorous Plant Society > > http://www.carnivorousplants.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cp mailing list > > Cp@omnisterra.com > > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > __________________________________________________________________________ > Acabe com aquelas janelinhas que pulam na sua tela. > AntiPop-up UOL - ? gr?tis! > http://antipopup.uol.com.br/ > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 16:58:46 -0800 > From: Robert Ziemer > Subject: [CP] Photos of rare Utricularia > To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > Message-ID: <422CF8C6.7020802@humboldt.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > Hiroshi Wakabayashi has posted some of the only photos that I have seen of: > U. fistulosa: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-fistul.htm > U. hirta: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-hirta.htm > U. holtzei: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-holtze.htm > U. kamienskii: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-kamien.htm > U. kimberleyensis: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-kimber.htm > U. limosa: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-limosa.htm > U. muelleri: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-muelle.htm > U. punctata: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-puncta.htm > U. purpureocaerulea: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-purpuo.htm > U. quinquedentata: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-quinqu.htm > U. singeriana: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-singer.htm > U. triflora: http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ze9h-wkby/u-triflo.htm > > -Bob- > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 10:30:49 +0600 > From: "Borneo Exotics \(Pvt\) Ltd" > Subject: [CP] RE: Tough love reminder > To: > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > Rob Cantley > Borneo Exotics (Pvt) Ltd > www.borneoexotics.com > > > Oops! > > > > > Message: 6 > > Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 10:50:37 -0800 > > From: "Barry Rice" > > Subject: [CP] Tough love reminder > > To: > > Cc: 'Cindy Slezak' > > Message-ID: <200503071850.j27IobZF005993@havana.ucdavis.edu> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > > > Hey Folks, > > > > Well, I just had about 8 hours sucked out of my life this weekend, preparing > > reminder postcards for all 788 ICPS members who have not yet renewed their > > memberships for this year (and lapsed members from 2003). > > > > That's a lot of mailing labels, and a lot of self-adhesive stamps. I think > > that the fingerprints on my hands have been pulled off. I'm a > > little grumpy about it right now, so don't send me any > > apologies---they won't be well-received. Instead, just send Cindy Slezak > > (cslezak@earthlink.net) your annual membership payment ($25). Just send her > > the payment via credit card or check or cash, and include your name and > > mailing address. She'll take care of the rest. > > > > And for the next few days, if you happen to see this very grumpy CPN editor > > walking along the street, your best bet would be to cross the street before > > he reached you. > > > > Later! > > > > Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. > > Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Grumpy Coeditor > > The International Carnivorous Plant Society > > http://www.carnivorousplants.org > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cp mailing list > > Cp@omnisterra.com > > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > > > End of Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 7 > > ********************************* > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 01:14:33 -0500 > From: "Marge Talt" > Subject: [CP] APHIS proposed changes to nursery stock regulations > To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Dear All, > > You may or may not be aware that USDA-APHIS is proposing major > changes in the regulations for the importation of nursery stock, i.e. > what they are now calling "plants for planting", which means ALL > plant parts capable of growing - rooted and non-rooted cuttings and > plants, seeds, corms, bulbs and tubers. > > This post is late in the day since the public comment period ends > Thursday, March 10, however I have not had a chance to write about > this until now for various reasons I will not bore you with. First, > I apologize to those of you on more than one of the lists I'm posting > this on, but I think it's important to try to summarize the main > points of the proposed regulation that affect nursery and > plantspeople the most....at least my take on it after many readings > of same. > > It is VERY important that everyone in the nursery or green industry > get busy and read this document and post your comments; it's going to > affect your business and you might as well let them know about it > before the fact rather than after the fact when it is too late for > your comments to do any good. > > To find the docket go to: > > http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ppd/rad/webrepor/ppq.html > > scroll down to: > > Docket # 03-069-1 - APHIS-2004-0024 - Nursery Stock Regulations > > The docket is available in .pdf format > > You can also read current comments online. > > This is a complex document. > > It appears that APHIS is caught between a rock and a hard place here. > > > * They seriously lack the information necessary to propose > intelligent and workable changes to the current regulations. > * They are required by law to propose these changes. > * They have a mandate to protect this country from ALL pests, of all > types, now known, unknown or as yet undiscovered. This is not a > realistic goal, but it is their mandate by law. > * They are also required by law to NOT adversely affect small > business and international trade by any regulations they enact. > * They must also comply with the mandates of the WTO-SPS treaty. > * They are not funded for any new programs or additional personnel > nor does additional funding look like it will be available any time > in the foreseeable future. > * They are requesting specific information from the public to assist > them in formulating changes to current regulations via the Federal > Register - a document read by few, but the primary way that they > currently announce what they are doing. Thus, news of their > proposals takes a long time to trickle down to those most affected by > them. > > Most of the information they seek; indeed, most of the specific > questions they ask, can best be answered by those in the nursery > industry. However, that does not mean that we can't add our input > from our own points of view. If you know the answer to any of their > specific questions or if you have any advice to give them on how they > can obtain the answers they seek, please provide this via their web > form, email or snail mail. (See the end of this post for more > specific information on sending in comments.) > > If you do not have time to read and digest the full docket, then may > I suggest that you post a comment requesting an extension in the > public comment period. I understand that they are giving > consideration to this proposal. > > They are requesting information on the number of nurseries and the > number and types of taxa being imported today; they are requesting > input on how best to obtain this information. They are trying to > find out just how their proposed changes would affect the industry; > whether (and how) or not their proposals for a Clean Stock Program > and a Best Management Program would affect nursery businesses. > > Currently, unless otherwise prohibited, all taxa are permitted entry > with a phyto. Given their mandate to restrict the entrance of all > pests, they are considering options for doing this including: > > * Using the criteria of quantity, considering taxa that are already > being imported in quantity to be considered 'safe' and permitted to > continue to be imported. > > * Requiring a PRA (Plant Risk Analysis) prior to entry for anything > that is currently NOT being imported in quantity. They are concerned > that this would bury them in an avalanche of requests for PRAs, for > which they do not have personnel nor funding, so, to avoid this, they > are considering: > > ** Restricting entry to plants already imported in quantity OR those > coming from an approved Clean Stock Program OR those going to a > nursery with a Best Management Program in place. The Clean Stock > program would be worked out with exporting nations and partially > controlled by them with APHIS oversight (no funding for this at this > point). The Clean Stock Program sounds like it's a nice idea, but it > has serious flaws and it is highly likely that only very large > importers would be able to participate. One nurseryman posted a > comment pointing out that the program only works for certain types of > crops. > > ** Developing a list of taxa that can be imported - which would be > based on those now being imported in quantity. All NEW taxa OR taxa > not now being imported in quantity would be restricted pending a PRA > (which is unlikely to happen quickly, given their funding > limitations). This is the Clean List that has been simmering on the > back burner ever since it was recommended by the Safeguarding group > about 5 or 6 years ago. > > Given that they lack vital data, they are working from a 'quantity' > point of view in proposing to allow only taxa already imported in > quantity to be considered 'safe'. This point of view favors only big > business and would be very detrimental to small nursery operations. > It would also be devastating to all private individuals who wish to > import plants for their own use. It would certainly put a stop to > all plant exploration and the introduction of new taxa. > > > From our point of view, as keen gardeners, the 'clean list' approach > would be a disaster since it would mean that ALL taxa not already > imported in large quantities would be severely restricted - even > those which have been safely grown in this country in small > quantities for many years. > > > From the point of view of small nurseries, it would also be a > disaster because it would mean that newly developed cultivars that > are the latest and greatest across the pond could not be sold here - > the lifeblood of nurseries - 'new' - would stop. The only way you'd > get the plant is via the black market which would put you at risk > since they are also proposing penalties for importers not complying > with the proposed regs. > > They are also considering combining current specific regulations into > one regulation and ask some specific questions about the public's > views on this. > > While I do not innately trust government agencies, it appears that > APHIS is truly asking for input; they need it badly and it appears > that constructive comments will be considered. This is not the venue > to vent frustrations concerning their past or current policies nor to > ride any personal hobby horses. Comments need to address what they > are requesting and the proposals they are making. If you have > personal experience or scientific data to back up your comments, > that's all to the good. > > Now, all of this is only PROPOSED at this time. It's NOT law. But, > something will become law - it has to; they have no choice. > > In my view, no matter what you think about importing plants, pests or > any of the many other philosophical issues surrounding plants, it is > imperative that APHIS understand the magnitude of the effect of their > proposals on the livelihood of small nurseries as well as the ability > of keen plantspeople to pursue their avocations and interests. APHIS > has asked for input. We need to help educate them. They really have > no clue. > > Someone posted on one of the lists that they didn't think comments > from non-US citizens would make a difference. If you operate a small > nursery or green industry business that would be adversely affected > by the proposed regulations, your input could very well make a > difference since they are also bound by WTO-SPS treaty. Your > comments, if also sent to your representatives in the WTO (World > Trade Organization), may be influential. > > The main point is that ALL involved in the green industry need to > comment and ALL of us who care about our ability to acquire and grow > new taxa without going through onerous regulatory hoops need to > comment. If you say nothing except "please extend the comment > period", your time will have been well spent. > > The current comment period is open through this Thursday, March 10, > 2005. Comments can be submitted by postal mail, commercial delivery, > e-mail or using the form on the docket site: > > Via snail mail or delivery service: > > Send an original and three copies of postal mail or commercial > delivery comments to: > > Docket No. 03-069-1 > Regulatory Analysis and Development > PPD, APHIS, Station 3C71 > 4700 River Road > Unit 118 > Riverdale, MD 20737-1238 > > Via email: > e-mail comments to regulations@aphis.usda.gov. > > E-mail comments must be contained in the body the message; do not > send attached files. Please include your name and address in the > body of the message and type "Docket No. 03-069-1" on the subject > line. > > To submit comments online, go to > > http://snipurl.com/dakm > > Click on any of the 'submit comment' links and follow instructions. > If you have a long comment (over 2000 characters) compose it in your > word processor and send it as an attachment - see the instructions > for the types of files they can accept. It will then be posted as a > pdf file. > > Marge Talt, zone 7 Maryland > mtalt@hort.net > Editor: Gardening in Shade > Shadyside Garden Designs > ----------------------------------------------- > Current Article: Plant Exchange > http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/shade_gardening > ------------------------------------------------ > Complete Index of Articles by Category and Date > http://mtalt.hort.net/article-index.html > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 07:31:47 -0000 > From: "Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}" > > Subject: [CP] Darwin cultivars > To: "CP chatgroup (E-mail)" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > How about "Chuck Darwin"? Seeya, Peter at California > Carnivores. > > "Charlie's Paddle"? > > > Arrrghh! NO! NO! NO! > Show some respect to a giant in the CP world. It should be Charles Darwin, > although this link showed that he was indeed known as Charley or Bobby when > he was a child > http://www.aboutdarwin.com/darwin/WhoWas.html :) > > Regards > > John Wilden > Southport > Lancashire. > UK > > > The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the > Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied > exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. > > On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 07:38:07 -0000 > From: "Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}" > > Subject: [CP] peat > To: "CP chatgroup (E-mail)" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > I'm not quite sure what the sphagnum peat is that you > referred to is, > > > Hamish, > > Its just describing where the peat came from (sphagnum bogs) and is the > 'proper' peat for keeping CP's. There is another type which is reputed to be > slightly alkaline and is darker than the sphag peat and its this that you > should really avoid (sorry can't remember the descriptive term for it- the > brain cells haven't yet had time to wake up). > > Regards > > > John Wilden > Southport > Lancashire. > UK > > > The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the > Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied > exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. > > On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 11:18:54 EST > From: CTSsangha@aol.com > Subject: Re: [CP] peat > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <7f.59633e88.2f5f2a6e@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > In a message dated 3/8/05 2:37:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, > john.wilden@hmce.gsi.gov.uk writes: > slightly alkaline and is darker than the sphag peat and its this that you > should really avoid (sorry can't remember the descriptive term for it- the > brain cells haven't yet had time to wake up). > Sedge peat?? > > Angie, SC > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 11:37:07 -0500 > From: "Darnowski, Douglas William" > Subject: [CP] Plants Available > To: > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > My collection is getting back to speed and some species are getting > overgrown again. The following are available for sale. I'd also > consider trades, esp. for orchid-flowered Utrics and some pygmy > Drosera. > > Doug Darnowski > > Genlisea hispidula $13 > G. hispidula "Pink" $20 > Utricularia minutissima $8 > U. livida $5 > U. praelonga $8 > U. longifolia $10 > U. warburgii $12 > U. calcyfida $7 > Drosera adelae $6 > Jewel Orchid (not a cp, but gorgeous leaves) $8 > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > End of Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 8 > ********************************* -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: madmage1 at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?M=E1rio=20Valente?=) Date: Wed Mar 9 10:00:38 2005 Subject: [CP] D.trinervia I'm happy to share with you that I had this week 6 germinations of D.trinervia from South Africa. I know you all will understand my happyness. Greetings MV ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Wed Mar 9 10:38:09 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Darwin cultivar Hi Peter, Gary, Steven, John and all, Thanks for your replies. I've been thinking about it more. Things to consider: is the plant worthy of Darwin's name? Will this this one be improved upon? I figure another D. rotundifolia cultivar may one day prove more fit for cultivation, but this one would forever remain the first. Yes Steven, EverGrow is 100% pure D. rotundifolia. Something I'm not sure I can explain happened when I crossed the two parent variants of D. rotundifolia from California. The seed needs no stratification to germinate and growers report that it grows especially well indoors. I've been reading up on Darwin. He knew that hybridizing increases variation; no controversy here. I was very interested to learn that the words "natural selection" were taken from "artificial selection" or breeding. I suppose we could call domestication "artificial evolution". Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Wed Mar 9 12:10:09 2005 Subject: [CP] Thanks- Cynthia Cynthia asked, and will probably regret asking what a 'poofter' is. The quote is from Monty Python, who get quoted from time to time on this listserv. Poofter is a slang word for homosexual. Before I put the asbestos suit on to duck the massive amount of flames heading in my direction, I didn't intend any offense to anyone. I really am one of the most unhomophobic people that you could meet, I'm really quite tolerant of anyone. So please don't have a rant about it all. Welcome aboard the listserv, glad that you enjoyed my humour, plenty of people don't. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: JDPDX at aol.com (JDPDX@aol.com) Date: Wed Mar 9 12:12:31 2005 Subject: [CP] Responding to listserve Folks, Please be careful about copying the whole entry when responing to a thread on the listserve. This last issue was practically unreadable because of all the repeat material. ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Wed Mar 9 13:12:59 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Drosera seed, Re: D. 'evergrow' The biggest Drosera seed I have seen was D. regia. It is fairly large (in compairson to other Drosera). I would think Darwin would like a showy plant named after him. But I would recommend one that he studied. So I guess that would be good. The only problem would be informing all the cp-ers about the name change. Not everyone gets CPN or is online. We might have the Darwin and in 20 years or so someone produces the same plant but labeled 'Evergrow'. That would present a problem. Tre ################### From: cplistserv at carnivorousplant.com (Joseph Clemens) Date: Wed Mar 9 13:23:27 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Drosera seed, Re: D. 'Evergrow' [quote]The biggest Drosera seed I have seen was D. regia. It is fairly large (in compairson to other Drosera). I would think Darwin would like a showy plant named after him. But I would recommend one that he studied. So I guess that would be good. The only problem would be informing all the cp-ers about the name change. Not everyone gets CPN or is online. We might have the Darwin and in 20 years or so someone produces the same plant but labeled 'Evergrow'. That would present a problem. Tre[quote] Tre, I believe you should review the process for registering a cultivar, I believe it will help answer your questions. It is available here: http://www.carnivorousplants.org/cultivars/cultivarsmain.html ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Wed Mar 9 15:47:03 2005 Subject: [CP] Thanks- Cynthia {Danger, Will Robinson! Absolutely no mention of CP anywhere in this note!} Ah, David, please remain the politically incorrect sod that you've always been. Humour just doesn't ring as shrilly when censored. Unless, of course, the censorship is poking fun at itself. I recall seeing a Python cartoon a decade back that had been editted to remove a reference to "cancer" replacing it with something like "horrible and thoroughly unpleasant disease." It was said in a completely different voice, and said quickly to force what is a lengthy and cumbersome phrase into a time frame meant to hold one word. Having seen the original version, the censored version and the way they did it was strangely funny in its own right. In a message dated 3/9/2005 12:10:36 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, nepenthesdave@hotmail.com writes: The quote is from Monty Python, who get quoted from time to time on this listserv. Poofter is a slang word for homosexual. Before I put the asbestos suit on to duck the massive amount of flames heading in my direction, I didn't intend any offense to anyone. TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Wed Mar 9 17:42:00 2005 Subject: [CP] What? Heliamphora, AGAIN!? The new CPN is in! The new CPN is in! TTFN Hamir the Hermit "And there you have another example of how, while life for you is getting bigger and better, for someone else in the world, it's getting smaller and worse." ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Wed Mar 9 23:05:52 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Darwin cultivar Ivan-- I can see why you'd want to change the name, since mine have experienced brief dormancies each year I've grown them. Similar to the binatas--they die back to the crown, then resume growth in a month or so. But they indeed produce seed that needs no stratification and make great sunny windowsill plants. Gary Kong "bioexp@juno.com" wrote: > >Hi Peter, Gary, Steven, John and all, >Thanks for your replies. I've been thinking about it more. Things to consider: is the plant worthy of Darwin's name? Will this this one be improved upon? I figure another D. rotundifolia cultivar may one day prove more fit for cultivation, but this one would forever remain the first. > Yes Steven, EverGrow is 100% pure D. rotundifolia. Something I'm not sure I can explain happened when I crossed the two parent variants of D. rotundifolia from California. The seed needs no stratification to germinate and growers report that it grows especially well indoors. I've been reading up on Darwin. He knew that hybridizing increases variation; no controversy here. I was very interested to learn that the words "natural selection" were taken from "artificial selection" or breeding. I suppose we could call domestication "artificial evolution". >Ivan Snyder >Hermosa Beach >California > >___________________________________________________________________ >Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. >Now includes pop-up blocker! >Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Wed Mar 9 23:24:16 2005 Subject: [CP] D. stoloniflera hi all-- about a year and half ago, i sowed some of these from the ICPS seedbank. i got a pot full of little plants that came up around this time of year, then as quickly as they appeared, they disappeared. i let the pot go bone dry in the hope that this year, they would resume growth. well, they did. but they're just as small this year as last year, about a 1/4" (.8 cm). how long does this plant take to reach maturity? and is it normal for them to begin growth in late winter? i was thinkng they'd be up and running last fall. Gary Kong -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: westaustralia at libero.it (Cristiano Perrucci) Date: Thu Mar 10 00:24:09 2005 Subject: [CP] D. stoloniflera Hi Gary and all, almost all tuberous sundews, as well as almost the rest of Australian CPs, might be a little challenging for some people. D. stolonifera ( ssp. stolonifera thought), is a lazy plants and generally sprout in mid late winter. It's a really easy plant but you have to meet a few requirements: Temperature: during day must be between 10/20 degrees celsius for regular growth. During night, may drop down to 0C, but It's better don't allow to freeze. Substrate: lot of sand and perlite, but be careful not to dry the tuber during dormancy. Perlite is great material but lose moisture very quickly. A balanced mix of sand+perlite work fine. As other tuberous droseras, enjoy water from overhead instead of the tray system. Light: no more than 8/10 hrs of bright light, otherwise you might induce plants to go dormant. You should consider that dormancy starts when temps are approximately upper 20C and photoperiod over 12/14 hrs. Flowers are "dionaea-like" (nothing special!) but really sweet and fragrant. A delight... Hope this helps. Cheers, Cristiano Perrucci, Genoa -Italy- > hi all-- > > about a year and half ago, i sowed some of these from the ICPS seedbank. i got a pot full of little plants that came up around this time of year, then as quickly as they appeared, they disappeared. i let the pot go bone dry in the hope that this year, they would resume growth. well, they did. but they're just as small this year as last year, about a 1/4" (.8 cm). how long does this plant take to reach maturity? and is it normal for them to begin growth in late winter? i was thinkng they'd be up and running last fall. > > Gary Kong > > -- > San Francisco, CA > World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Switch to Netscape Internet Service. > As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register > > Netscape. Just the Net You Need. > > New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer > Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. > Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ____________________________________________________________ Navighi a 2 MEGA e i primi 3 mesi sono GRATIS. Scegli Libero Adsl Flat senza limiti su http://www.libero.it ################### From: n.bellii at netzero.net (n.bellii@netzero.net) Date: Thu Mar 10 04:48:18 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Darwin cultivar Hello Ivan and all, I was joking with my response of course. I respect your reputation! I thought with a little nudge this group could vigorously "argue" about just about anything. At least about a Drosera species that doesn't follow the _exact_ original description phenotype. Everyone has been so nice to each other lately I am beginning to wonder if everyone is still lurking. Does your (unofficial) cultivar form a hibernicula? I remember when I first purchased a Drosera rotundifolia, I couldn't distinguish it from the D. capillaris I had purchased. As it turned out, all of the plants I had received were D. capillaris! The labels were nice though. Steven Stewart Florida, USA ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Thu Mar 10 05:39:05 2005 Subject: [CP] What? Heliamphora, AGAIN!? as long as it isnt utricularia --- HmrTheHrmt@aol.com wrote: > The new CPN is in! The new CPN is in! > > > > > TTFN > > > Hamir the Hermit > > > "And there you have another example of how, > while life for you is getting bigger and better, > for someone else in the world, > it's getting smaller and worse." > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: CTSsangha at aol.com (CTSsangha@aol.com) Date: Thu Mar 10 06:02:00 2005 Subject: [CP] What? Heliamphora, AGAIN! Glad that I can look forward to an article about my second favorite CPs! I am again joining ICPS after lapsing for a few years. I hope to get back into the hobby taking care of the plants I still have and acquiring a few new ones. There have been SEVEN (+ or -) new species of Helis discovered since I sort of took a break from active CP growing. wow :) Been looking at Andreas's site and drooling a bit.... ################### From: 320049503767-0001 at T-Online.de (320049503767-0001@T-Online.de) Date: Thu Mar 10 11:29:23 2005 Subject: [CP] D. meristocaulis germinating Hi all, just a note on my D. meristocaulis seedlings: The first ones start germinating right now. Seed was sown onto pure Lituvian peat and kept moist and warm as some of you noted. My in vitro seed sown on modified MS-Medium is sterile but not germinating yet. Kindest regards Stefan ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Thu Mar 10 12:11:20 2005 Subject: [CP] New CPN Hey Folks, Yes, indeed, you may look to your mailboxes for the new issue of CPN. This CPN was sent out using our new mailing system, so with luck our non-USA members will not have to wait for a fifth season of Black Adder before expecting it to arrive. Some highlights of this issue: **Yes, another new Heliamphora. But I wish I could see your jaws drop when you see what this one looks like! **An interesting look at some of the diseases that seem to be responsible to sudden death syndromes in Pinguicula culture. **Some new cultivars for you all to pound your chests about. Plus, of course, all the rest of the usual tasty tidbits. Cheers Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Thu Mar 10 13:08:56 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Drosera cultivar Well I have no problem with the name change or anything. I have seen the cultivar instructions many times. I just meant that not everyone who has the plant and calls it 'Evergrow' will be told the new name. I gave away a couple cuttings from mine and I have no idea to who the plants now belong. The person I gave them to did not have internet and gave them away to someone in NY. I am just saying that mix-ups do happen and if in 20 years someone gets this plant out to trade not all of us will remember D. 'Charles Darwin' used to be D. 'Evergrow'. ################### From: mrg40 at student.canterbury.ac.nz (Mikala Graham) Date: Thu Mar 10 14:22:02 2005 Subject: [CP] Cephalotus- quick question... Hi all, Just a quickie this time. I read somewhere that cephalotus does not need to hibernate. Is this true? Can I keep it inside with me instead of rejecting it onto the cold of my doorstep? It sure would be nice to have one wee CP inside to look at over winter!! Cheers, Mikala. ################### From: sardonus at yahoo.com (Hamish McKellar) Date: Thu Mar 10 15:00:53 2005 Subject: [CP] New CPN It has already arrived in Oz... --- Barry Rice wrote: > > Hey Folks, > > Yes, indeed, you may look to your mailboxes for the > new issue of CPN. This > CPN was sent out using our new mailing system, so > with luck our non-USA > members will not have to wait for a fifth season of > Black Adder before > expecting it to arrive. > > Some highlights of this issue: > > **Yes, another new Heliamphora. But I wish I could > see your jaws drop when > you see what this one looks like! > > **An interesting look at some of the diseases that > seem to be responsible to > sudden death syndromes in > Pinguicula culture. > > **Some new cultivars for you all to pound your > chests about. > > Plus, of course, all the rest of the usual tasty > tidbits. > > Cheers > > Barry > > > Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. > Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor > The International Carnivorous Plant Society > http://www.carnivorousplants.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ################### From: ClaraVoiAunt at aol.com (ClaraVoiAunt@aol.com) Date: Thu Mar 10 17:17:04 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 11 In a message dated 3/10/2005 12:02:56 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: Lituvian peat ################### From: mtalt at hort.net (Marge Talt) Date: Thu Mar 10 22:30:26 2005 Subject: [CP] Time extension for comment ref proposed changes to import regs Dear All, Once again I'm crossposting this message and I apologize to those who are on more than one of the lists. Thanks to all who have taken time to comment. APHIS heard the requests for a time extension and has granted one. The comment period has been extended until April 11, 2005. This may be the single most important issue the gardening community ever has to face; the proposed regulations will affect gardeners in every country. Since there is no central organization to speak for horticulture, it is important that we do not ignore this opportunity, thinking someone else will take care of it. There is no someone else; we are it. While comments have been coming in on the docket site, I hope more of you will make the time to take advantage of this extension and send in your comments. APHIS will respond to your concerns if they are stated in a civil manner; clear reasoning supported by personal experience is especially helpful; rants of frustration with past or present are not. It would also be very helpful if you are able to get the word out to smaller nurseries and growers who are either not online; not on the mailing lists or too busy keeping their heads above water to keep up with regulatory issues. These regulations will affect them directly and they need to know about them so that they are able express their needs and concerns to APHIS. Unfortunately, one cannot create a direct link to the actual document. To find it, go to the main docket list page: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ppd/rad/webrepor/ppq.html If the above URL breaks on your email program, use this one: http://tinyurl.com/3v8wy The first item on the page listing, Nursery Stock Regulations, is the notice of the extension of the comment period - you cannot reach the document from it. Scroll down the page. The docket is about the 18th item down the page. You will see this: Nursery Stock Regulations Docket No. 03-069-1 Advance notice of proposed rulemaking and request for comments 7 CFR Part 319 Published December 10, 2004 69 FR 71736-71744 Text | PDF | EDOCKET The above three items are the links on the APHIS site to the actual document. The first is to a text file on the web. The second downloads an Adobe Acrobat (.pdf) file to your computer. The third links to the page with comments that have been made, which contains links that you can use to submit your own comment. Marge Talt, zone 7 Maryland mtalt@hort.net Editor: Gardening in Shade Shadyside Garden Designs ----------------------------------------------- Current Article: Until April 11 http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/shade_gardening ------------------------------------------------ Complete Index of Articles by Category and Date http://mtalt.hort.net/article-index.html ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Thu Mar 10 22:48:01 2005 Subject: [CP] Thanks- Cynthia Hamir, The next time that I visit San Francisco, I don't want to find out that I have upset the whole of Castro Street. Regards David Ahrens Lnodon PS-back to CP's ################### From: Bluemounttc at aol.com (Bluemounttc@aol.com) Date: Fri Mar 11 07:39:30 2005 Subject: [CP] Help with Proper Care of Shipped Material I'd love to hear from anyone who has any tips/suggestions on how I should best treat new CP's that are arriving by air this afternoon. Some will be material coming out of tissue culture, others are, I suppose, going to be bare root plants. Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance! ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Fri Mar 11 10:43:16 2005 Subject: [CP] Help with Proper Care of Shipped Material Hi Bonnie, They'll likely look and be a little beat up from shipping. Hopefully the shipper sent them sealed in ziploc baggies, otherwise they tend to dry out very quickly. My suggestion is to wash off the plants carefully with room temp distilled H2O to remove any dead, broken, non-plant bits, pot them up in their necessary soil, and place the plants in a low light (under fluorescent lights is best) at around 100% humidity. Once you notice them starting to perk up, reduce the humidity slowly by opening up the container more to harden off the plant. Some definitely ship better than others! Good luck! Chris >From: Bluemounttc@aol.com >Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group >To: Cp@omnisterra.com >Subject: [CP] Help with Proper Care of Shipped Material >Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 10:39:09 EST > >I'd love to hear from anyone who has any tips/suggestions on how I should >best treat new CP's that are arriving by air this afternoon. Some will be >material coming out of tissue culture, others are, I suppose, going to be >bare root >plants. Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated. > >Thanks in advance! > >Bonnie Collins >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Fri Mar 11 13:39:48 2005 Subject: [CP] Tuberous Drosera Never let it be said that these suckers can be grown by impatient people. I planted seeds of two different species (platypoda and ramellosa) in two different pots about 5 or six years ago. It seemed to me that I got some sproutage, but the little rosettes seemed to vanish as quickly as they came. I put the pots in the dry section of my tray table and kept them weeded. The following year, more little rosettes. Possibly something, possibly volunteers from some other sundew species. Again, they vanished without attaining much size. And so it continued over the years, each time some RRT would struggle up, continue for a few months, disappear. They didn't look like anything else I'm growing, but never get big enough for me to say for sure that they aren't just a stray RRT weed. But that stray wisp of hope just keeps on hanging in there, and I can't bring myself to throw the potting soil into the recycling tin. And then, this year.... success! One of the pots, ramellosa, has a rather alien looking RRT that's about an inch in height, definitely not like anything else I'm growing. So, for any of you young CP enthusiasts out there... if you're thinking of getting hooked on tuberous RRTs, better start now, or you'll be old fogies before you get any results! TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Fri Mar 11 15:00:49 2005 Subject: [CP] sundew qestion ok, bear with me, but im a newbie! the tank od cps i have at my school (which is doing excellent, ive been told that the people who sold use the cps, has commented that this tank is the best looking one hes ever seen) has a giant mound of sundews, it start out as one or two plants and now is a huge mound, my qestion is do sundews produce offshoots to create this "mound" or are the new plants, just seeds that have fallen to the base of the plant? -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: chrst at ida.net (chrst@ida.net) Date: Fri Mar 11 15:49:52 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: inexpensive Nepenthes I recently found Nepenthes plants at Albertson's grocery store and Fred Meyer (like a super Walmart and somehow associated with Kroger). The plants were 2-3 inches high with leaves that were 6-7 inches long. The stores were selling the plants for 1.25 USD each! I bought some from both stores. A few of the plants had some immature pitchers. Most of the plants only had tendrils. I don't know if they are a species, cultivar, or hybrid but I am impressed by their growth. They were originally in milled sphagnum and were growing complete 3 inches tall pitchers as long as I remebered to keep their peat moist. The plants survive drying out completely. They didn't need any kind of help to increase humidity such as a vaporizer or an enclosure like you may see at Lowe's and I live in the Snake River Valley of Southeastern Idaho- a desert. I keep the plants indoors but the outside humidity is linked to our indoor humidity. I had one plant that died. It's soil didn't appear to be pure milled peat and there were some slow- release fertilizer pellets mixed in. Recently, I repotted all of my Nepenthes into long fiber sphagnum and all are growing well. I have not observed any variation of pitcher colors, spots, or shape between the individual plants. I think all of them came from the same original plant. Chad C. ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Fri Mar 11 16:49:59 2005 Subject: [CP] sundew qestion It could be either reason, or even a third or fourth, depending on species. If it's a species that sets seed easily, that's likely the source. A few plants will send out shoots, in my experience I've had my capensis lose its growing tip and then send out a bunch of shoots from the stem. It's also possible that there are sproutlings coming up from the roots, but I've never had this happen with my plants unless either the root system was disturbed, or the growing tip died. Your most likely cause, following the seed idea, is plantlets growing from leaves, as leaf cuttings can be a great way to propagate sundews. In a message dated 3/11/2005 3:01:19 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, z5guy@kittymail.com writes: do sundews produce offshoots to create this "mound" or are the new plants, just seeds that have fallen to the base of the plant? TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: stephenwd at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Davis) Date: Fri Mar 11 23:47:34 2005 Subject: [CP] sundew qestion Do you know what species it is? Most don't put up that many plants from the roots, but but a few will. D. adalae, comes to mind right away for instance. Stephen Davis www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com jon mungeam wrote: ok, bear with me, but im a newbie! the tank od cps i have at my school (which is doing excellent, ive been told that the people who sold use the cps, has commented that this tank is the best looking one hes ever seen) has a giant mound of sundews, it start out as one or two plants and now is a huge mound, my qestion is do sundews produce offshoots to create this "mound" or are the new plants, just seeds that have fallen to the base of the plant? -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: dinesh at ndbib.lanka.net (Dinesh Fernando) Date: Sat Mar 12 00:18:49 2005 Subject: [CP] Seeds from Drosera Burmanni I have a few D. Burmanni's, one of which is sending up a flower scape. I want to get as much seeds as possible. Should I try to self-pollinate the single flower that I currently have or is it best to save pollen until another plant flowers? What is the "best" way to pollinate the flowers (to ensure maximum seed set)? Thanks, Dinesh. ################### From: hpulley at rogers.com (Harry Pulley) Date: Sat Mar 12 04:28:59 2005 Subject: [CP] sundew qestion --- jon mungeam wrote: > ok, bear with me, but im a newbie! the tank od cps i > have at my school (which is doing excellent, ive > been told that the people who sold use the cps, has > commented that this tank is the best looking one hes > ever seen) has a giant mound of sundews, it start > out as one or two plants and now is a huge mound, my > qestion is do sundews produce offshoots to create > this "mound" or are the new plants, just seeds that > have fallen to the base of the plant? Do you know the species? If not, can you describe the leaves? Both D. Adelae (long thinnish leaves) and D. Prolifera (smaller kidney shaped leaves) grow and propogate like weeds WITHOUT using seeds. Prolifera uses obvious above-ground flower/plantlet stalks which can produce seed but more easily produce little plantlets. Adelae doesn't show any obvious runners but either root runners or leaf-tip propogation fills the pot up pretty quick. Harry ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Sat Mar 12 10:03:42 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Darwin cultivar Hi Gary, Steven, Carl, Tre, and all, As Gary mentions, this Drosera rotundifolia cultivar can produce winter buds as typical for the species. With my warm indoor light setup and constant photoperiod, dormancy is hardy noticed. The typical Plants started from seed must go through a dormancy before flowering can commense. The cultivar can flower without a dormancy. I originally cross pollinated the parents of this cultivar in hope of improving the plant for cultivation. The wild parent from Gasquet CA has a lighter dormancy. The N. Plumas Co. CA parent was a bit larger and better looking rosette. One second generation seedling I raised up did something strange and unanticipated: When I was harvesting the seed I found the seed had sprouted into tiny plants within the capsules. I was able to pot up these tiny plants. One selected sibling started the EverGrow line. I thank you all for your encouragement. I will begin writing up a cultivar article. I don't know what name will be approved, but I will shoot for 'Charles Darwin' as first choice. I sincerely doubt Tre will remember the name EverGrow 20 years down the line:-) Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sat Mar 12 11:44:54 2005 Subject: [CP] S. rubra ssp. alabamensis vs wherryi Can someone expalin the differences between S. rubra ssp. alabamensis and ssp. wherryi. Schnell's 2nd edition only says wherryi is a smaller version. The Savage Garden gives not details except the same as does Carnivorus Plants of the World. Tre Bond ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sat Mar 12 13:22:39 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Charles I am going to have to agree with you Ivan. ################### From: Jacob at cobraplant.com (Sarracenia Northwest) Date: Sat Mar 12 13:52:53 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: inexpensive Nepenthes Chris, those Nepenthes you picked up at Fred Meyer's are Nepenthes alata x 'ventra'. They've been getting them from a wholesale nursery in Salem, Oregon. They produce them via stem cuttings. Apparently, this particular variety roots very quickly. At a buck twenty-five, you can't go wrong with that! When they're on sale, you can get them for a buck each. Jacob Farin Sarracenia Northwest ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Sat Mar 12 19:01:44 2005 Subject: [CP] sundew qestion all of my sundews have produced 'pups' from the roots or have a clumping habit, including D. rotundifolia, all the binatas, D. regia, D. adelae, D. capensis, D. tokaiensis, D. filiformis, D. aliciae, D. intermedia, all hybrids of D. capillaris. D. peltata forms daughter tubers and the sterile form of D. x "Nagamotoi" died back and resumed growth from the roots. What I'm getting at, is that it's probably the rare sundew that doesn't have roots or stems that don't produce offshoots. Gary Kong Harry Pulley wrote: >--- jon mungeam wrote: >> ok, bear with me, but im a newbie! the tank od cps i >> have at my school (which is doing excellent, ive >> been told that the people who sold use the cps, has >> commented that this tank is the best looking one hes >> ever seen) has a giant mound of sundews, it start >> out as one or two plants and now is a huge mound, my >> qestion is do sundews produce offshoots to create >> this "mound" or are the new plants, just seeds that >> have fallen to the base of the plant? > >Do you know the species? If not, can you describe the >leaves? > >Both D. Adelae (long thinnish leaves) and D. Prolifera >(smaller kidney shaped leaves) grow and propogate like >weeds WITHOUT using seeds. Prolifera uses obvious >above-ground flower/plantlet stalks which can produce >seed but more easily produce little plantlets. Adelae >doesn't show any obvious runners but either root >runners or leaf-tip propogation fills the pot up >pretty quick. > >Harry > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: n.bellii at netzero.net (n.bellii@netzero.net) Date: Sun Mar 13 04:58:22 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Darwin Cultivar Ivan, Could you put me on a waiting list for one of your Drosera "Charles Darwin" ? ("" for now) I can't grow typical D. rotundifolia any more reliably than I grow D. schizandra, or any of the tuberous species. Steven Stewart Florida, USA I thank you all for your encouragement. I will begin writing up a cultivar article. I don't know what name will be approved, but I will shoot for 'Charles Darwin' as first choice. I sincerely doubt Tre will remember the name EverGrow 20 years down the line:-) Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ################### From: hpulley at rogers.com (Harry Pulley) Date: Sun Mar 13 05:08:04 2005 Subject: [CP] sundew qestion > all of my sundews have produced 'pups' from the roots or have a clumping habit, including D. rotundifolia, all the binatas, D. regia, D. adelae, D. capensis, D. tokaiensis, D. filiformis, D. aliciae, D. intermedia, all hybrids of D. capillaris. D. peltata forms daughter tubers and the sterile form of D. x "Nagamotoi" died back and resumed growth from the roots. What I'm getting at, is that it's probably the rare sundew that doesn't have roots or stems that don't produce offshoots. > > Gary Kong How would you rank them in terms of ease of off-shooting and clumping? Which ones propagate the fastest, and which the slowest? I was just saying the adelae and prolifera seem to go like wild compared to e.g. binata and slackii. D. binata as a plant grows really well but doesn't seem to create offshoots as fast. D. slackii perhaps I am not growing under the right conditions as it seems to grow slowly AND doesn't propagate well. Harry -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.2 - Release Date: 3/11/05 ################### From: RL7836 at earthlink.net (Ron Lane) Date: Sun Mar 13 07:20:51 2005 Subject: [CP] Sarracenia for Trade or Donation As I mentioned in my post last week, this weekend would be Sarracenia repotting. The list (at the bottom) has the plants that are available. They range in size from small to 'have bloomed several years' and quantities range from 1 to approx. 12 of each plant. The rare/threatened/endangered species cannot be traded (as I understand) so they will be given away. Priority will be given to individuals who have plants to trade (& people I've traded with previously), teachers, public institutions, etc. However, plants not used for trades (or donations for education, etc.) will be given to people (for postage and the cost of a box for shipping). If you are interested, please send an email to the earthlink address which includes: - plants you have available for trade (or not) - plants you would like (in order of preference) - approximate number of years growing CP - name & mailing address Please do not respond to the list (it will be ignored). USA only. I probably will not respond to requests until Wednesday night. Ron RL7836@earthlink.net Hunterdon County, NJ, USA I am looking for the following plants: VFT 'Wacky traps' / 'wacko' / 'Bart Simpson' D. linearis (seed or plant), D. falconeri S. flava 'all-red' from NC (or FL) S. rosea (S. purpurea 'burkei') VFT mutations or truly interesting varieties List of available plants: Sar - purpurea purpurea (small) Sar - purpurea venosa (small) Sar - oreophila, green, lightly veined Sar - flava 'red tube' FL, Sar - flava 'heavy veins', from NC, (vertical lid) Sar - flava 'all red' Sar - flava 'red-lip/veined', Bay County, FL, Sar - flava 'cut throat', Wewahitchka Gulf County, FL, Sar - flava 'copper top', (very wide lid) Sar - rubra rubra 'long lid', from NC Sar - rubra albamensis AL Sar - rubra albamensis, from ICPS (AL001) Sar - rubra jonesii, Sar - rubra wheryii, Sar - rubra gulfensis, Sar - minor, Sar - minor 'Okee Giant', Sar - leucophylla, Sar - alata - Texas, Robertson county, TX, ################### From: jdpdx at aol.com (jdpdx@aol.com) Date: Sun Mar 13 08:19:09 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Albertson's/Fred Meyer Nepenthes Chad, These Nepenthes are being produced by Stubb's Nurseries in Salem, OR. I fairly sure they are "DeRooses Alata" , which is (Nepenthes alata X N. ventricosa) X N. alata. It's a very stout plant, and very tolerant of low humdity. Just keep them moist and in a sunny window, and they should pitcher like crazy. I've grown this one as a common houseplant for years. Jeff Portland, OR ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Sun Mar 13 11:21:03 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: sundew qestion I will find out the exact species tommorrow, when i go to school. -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sun Mar 13 13:31:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: sundew question maybe you have a slow variety of binata. I threw mine in the bog garden because that slows it down a bit. I only have 4 growth points now because I gave the other 12 away. Slackii is slow for me also ################### From: hpulley at rogers.com (Harry Pulley) Date: Sun Mar 13 13:35:01 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: sundew question --- Tre Bond wrote: > maybe you have a slow variety of binata. I threw > mine in the bog garden because that slows it down a > bit. I only have 4 growth points now because I gave > the other 12 away. Slackii is slow for me also My binata is the multifada extreme form which doesn't just make double-leaves, it makes leaves which branch and branch and branch. The plant itself grows really well and tall. While I'm sure I could divide the plant up, it doesn't put out runners or little plants that I can see -- maybe it is just the way it grows, it doesn't produce little plants next to it like adelae or obvious runners like prolifera. Harry ################### From: stovehouse at earthlink.net (Michael Hunt) Date: Sun Mar 13 16:57:00 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: inexpensive Nepenthes damn "MUTTS" ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Sun Mar 13 20:39:50 2005 Subject: [CP] sundew qestion my binatas are like my capensis. their pots are full. some crowns die back, more grow to replace them. give them lots of sun and this is just what they do. i used to divide them up to give them more room, but then more and more and more would grow. just like VFT flowers. screw cutting them back. it's just an exercise in futility. my binata multifida even grows out of its drainage holes. the 'extrema' just started putting up 'pups' in the last year. in my experience, once the plant initiates offshoots, it becomes the preferred growth habit. and my aesthetics have changed. now, i prefer the crowded look to the one pot one plant look. there are pics on my webshots of two of my binatas: dichotoma: http://image01.webshots.com/1/1/75/29/35917529DZBUCu_ph.jpg multifida: http://image01.webshots.com/1/1/77/30/35917730Zrvfnr_ph.jpg sorry, don't know how to rank them. put them in big wide pots in bright sun with lots of water and bugs and you'll end up with something like these. Gary Kong "Harry Pulley" wrote: >From: "Gary Kong" >> all of my sundews have produced 'pups' from the roots or have a clumping >habit, including D. rotundifolia, all the binatas, D. regia, D. adelae, D. >capensis, D. tokaiensis, D. filiformis, D. aliciae, D. intermedia, all >hybrids of D. capillaris. D. peltata forms daughter tubers and the sterile >form of D. x "Nagamotoi" died back and resumed growth from the roots. What >I'm getting at, is that it's probably the rare sundew that doesn't have >roots or stems that don't produce offshoots. >> >> Gary Kong > >How would you rank them in terms of ease of off-shooting and clumping? >Which ones propagate the fastest, and which the slowest? I was just saying >the adelae and prolifera seem to go like wild compared to e.g. binata and >slackii. D. binata as a plant grows really well but doesn't seem to create >offshoots as fast. D. slackii perhaps I am not growing under the right >conditions as it seems to grow slowly AND doesn't propagate well. > >Harry > > > >-- >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.2 - Release Date: 3/11/05 > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: voodoodancer at gmail.com (Mark) Date: Sun Mar 13 20:56:19 2005 Subject: [CP] Terry Ratzmann I have been hearing some rumors that Terry Ratzmann traven@execpc.com from this list is the Wisconsin church shooter. Can anybody here prove or disprove this? Thank You Mark -- Paypal is nothing but hightech common thieves. Check out their customer feedback http://www.planetfeedback.com/sharedLettersList/0,2941,101112-70-0-0-20-0-fb_date-desc,00.html Don't become another paypal victim ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Sun Mar 13 20:59:05 2005 Subject: [CP] sundew qestion Piker. Those look like infants next to the monstrosities I have growing. Of course, this year they will have to recuperate from a dividing session. The pots they were in finally got too brittle from age after 10 years and the plants were bursting through the seams. In a message dated 3/13/2005 8:40:06 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, garkoinsf@netscape.net writes: there are pics on my webshots of two of my binatas: dichotoma: http://image01.webshots.com/1/1/75/29/35917529DZBUCu_ph.jpg multifida: http://image01.webshots.com/1/1/77/30/35917730Zrvfnr_ph.jpg TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: ksanders at clas.ufl.edu (Keith Sanders) Date: Mon Mar 14 05:46:43 2005 Subject: [CP] Terry Ratzmann It's no proof, but I did read an article that mentioned that the person collected VFT's in a greenhouse. Mark wrote: > I have been hearing some rumors that Terry Ratzmann traven@execpc.com > from this list is the Wisconsin church shooter. Can anybody here prove > or disprove this? > > Thank You > Mark ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Mon Mar 14 08:47:58 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Seeds from Drosera Burmanni Hi Dinesh, D. burmannii makes seed on its own, no need to help them. The problem is collecting the seed which tend to fall out when the capsules ripen. Indoors it's not so bad. But I imagine outdoors wind would blow the seed everywhere. Ivan >I have a few D. Burmanni's, one of which is sending up a flower scape. I want to get as much seeds as possible. Should I try to self-pollinate the single flower that I currently have or is it best to save pollen until another plant flowers? What is the "best" way to pollinate the flowers (to ensure maximum seed set)? Thanks, Dinesh. ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Mon Mar 14 09:25:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Southern Alabama/ Eglin area Cp sites I know I will hit a brick wall here but would anyone be willing to share information as to where I can see CPs (particularly Sarrs) in the Southern Alabama & Eglin areas. I have already seen the Crestview Site (S. rubra gulfensis & leucophylla), well what was left of it. I have also seen most of the State parks (excluding Blackwater) which are filled with leucophylla and some have S. psitticenia. Any help would be appreciated. I am not really interested in sites with leucophylla since I have seen plenty of them. Tre ################### From: jgbritt at mac.com (John Brittnacher) Date: Mon Mar 14 11:42:35 2005 Subject: [CP] Terry Ratzmann I can confirm Terry Ratzmann of New Berlin, Wisconsin, was a member of the ICPS. -- John Brittnacher International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org/ ################### From: ullsperg at hotmail.com (Chris Ullsperger) Date: Mon Mar 14 13:22:55 2005 Subject: [CP] ICPS member crack-up John wrote "I can confirm Terry Ratzmann of New Berlin, Wisconsin, was a member of the ICPS." In that case, my theory is that he went nuts trying to germinate Byblis gigantea. ################### From: Roridula at bluebottle.com (Roridula@bluebottle.com) Date: Mon Mar 14 14:04:40 2005 Subject: [CP] ICPS member crack-up >John wrote > >"I can confirm Terry Ratzmann of New Berlin, Wisconsin, was a >member of the ICPS." Was he the one who had to lick all the stamps for those ICPS renewal reminders? ################### From: voodoodancer at gmail.com (Mark) Date: Mon Mar 14 15:55:05 2005 Subject: [CP] Terry Ratzmann Well I think the we can end all the questioning about this. Quote Ratzmann lived with his mother and sister in New Berlin, Wis., police say. This is from an article at http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/03/13/hotel-shooting050313.html I am now sadly 100% sure that it's the same guy. -- Paypal is nothing but hightech common thieves. Check out their customer feedback http://www.planetfeedback.com/sharedLettersList/0,2941,101112-70-0-0-20-0-fb_date-desc,00.html Don't become another paypal victim ################### From: Jeremiahsplants at adelphia.net (Jeremiah Harris) Date: Mon Mar 14 16:51:22 2005 Subject: [CP] Terry Ratzmann wow that is sad I even sent it him some Nepenthes seeds last August. I still have the sase he sent me. -Jeremiah- ________________________________________________________ Colorado Carnivorous Plant Society Jeremiah Harris 712 Columbia Rd Colorado Springs CO 80904 (719)-578-8123 AIM: Nepenthesrajah jeremiahsplants@adelphia.net http://www.geocities.com/colorado_carnivorousplantsociety/ ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 4:54 PM Well I think the we can end all the questioning about this. Quote Ratzmann lived with his mother and sister in New Berlin, Wis., police say. This is from an article at http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/03/13/hotel-shooting050313.html I am now sadly 100% sure that it's the same guy. -- Paypal is nothing but hightech common thieves. Check out their customer feedback http://www.planetfeedback.com/sharedLettersList/0,2941,101112-70-0-0-20-0-fb_date-desc,00.html Don't become another paypal victim _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Mon Mar 14 17:34:37 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Terry Yeah he was a member of this list. Look at terrifourms under the "Gunman" heading and you can find a link to read some [really weird] posts. ################### From: hkobayashi4 at hotmail.com (Hideka Kobayashi) Date: Mon Mar 14 17:36:41 2005 Subject: [CP] Terry Ratzmann Here's his home page: http://my.execpc.com/~traven/ ################### From: hkobayashi4 at hotmail.com (Hideka Kobayashi) Date: Mon Mar 14 17:48:50 2005 Subject: [CP] Village Voice article (Terry Ratzmann) Just found this. The content is..........just a regular media BS: http://villagevoice.com/blogs/bushbeat/archive/000768.php ################### From: voodoodancer at gmail.com (Mark) Date: Mon Mar 14 18:26:45 2005 Subject: [CP] Terry Ratzmann Tre Bond, I don't know where you got your info but there is no member named Gunman on terraforums. Send me a link to the post you're talking about. Mark -- Paypal is nothing but hightech common thieves. Check out their customer feedback http://www.planetfeedback.com/sharedLettersList/0,2941,101112-70-0-0-20-0-fb_date-desc,00.html Don't become another paypal victim ################### From: dinesh at ndbib.lanka.net (Dinesh Fernando) Date: Mon Mar 14 18:52:18 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Seeds from Drosera Burmanni Thanks Ivan, Greatly appreciate the tip. My plants are kept outdoors. Would I be correct to assume that the seeds in the capsule will be mature when the capsule starts turning yellow / brown? Thanks again, Dinesh > > > Hi Dinesh, > D. burmannii makes seed on its own, no need to help them. The problem is collecting the seed which tend to fall out when the capsules ripen. Indoors it's not so bad. But I imagine outdoors wind would blow the seed everywhere. > Ivan > ################### From: asplundii at gmail.com (Travis Wyman) Date: Mon Mar 14 19:46:20 2005 Subject: [CP] Gunung Kenan Do anyone have any idea where Gunung Kenan is? And if so what Neps might be found on it? I have a Nep labled as coming from this location at 2800m but I have no idea what it is exactly. Any help is appreciated. Thanks Travis ################### From: stephenwd at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Davis) Date: Mon Mar 14 23:26:38 2005 Subject: [CP] sundew qestion Are you going to post a picture somewhere for us? I'd love to see this tank! Stephen Davis stephenwd@sbcglobal.net www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com -----Original Message----- Of jon mungeam Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 3:10 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com ok, bear with me, but im a newbie! the tank od cps i have at my school (which is doing excellent, ive been told that the people who sold use the cps, has commented that this tank is the best looking one hes ever seen) has a giant mound of sundews, it start out as one or two plants and now is a huge mound, my qestion is do sundews produce offshoots to create this "mound" or are the new plants, just seeds that have fallen to the base of the plant? -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: paul.temple at eds.com (Temple, Paul) Date: Tue Mar 15 03:59:13 2005 Subject: [CP] Seeking Cephalotus - plus bits of news. A while back, Dennis said "[I] have been looking for Cephalotus Hummers Giant". Most who know me probably don't realise that after 24 years of CP-ing, I now have no CPs, not even 1. I can't start a collection again as m house is too small and I'm emigrating in 2006 so I can't contemplate shipping a collection overseas or even trying to sell a house while it's full of CPs (I like them but prospective buyers don't). But I yearn to have at least 1 CP and Cephalotus has always been amongst my favourites. Unlike Dennis, as I've no plants I can't offer a swap, so if some kind person can help, all I can offer is good will or cash! And I will take the plants (or leaves from them) with me when I emigrate! I'd appreciate just a few winter leaves, of any Cephalotus, (I'm aware of 4 "types": Hummer's Giant, the German giant type, all green and the "normal" one" - any would do, I'm not picky, but a so-called giant type would be especially welcome to try). I live in the UK but please don't let an ocean or two get in the way. Leaves travel well and will die anyway if not separated off and used as cuttings!!! I'm a CP junkie without a CP. Go on - feed a junkie's habit. Just say "Yes"! Oh, and by the way, the ICPS Journal arrived (UK) and that Heliamphora is great! I'll not ruin the surprise for others yet to see it. Oh (2), for those that like CP stamps there's a VFT stamp from Grenada and the Grenadines. (Sorry if someone's already posted that news) (And even after years of research I'm still completely unable to fathom what the reputed Bhutanese 1985 stamp is or indeed the National Wildlife Federation 1992. More info welcome from anyone - send to me privately to avoid boring the whole group! JPEG images especially welcome!) Cheers Paul ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Tue Mar 15 05:16:52 2005 Subject: [CP] putting your name in the signature line I think it would be a great idea if more people on here put their location in the signature line. You dont have to put your address or anything but itd be good to know where everyone is for trading purposes etc. I myself would like to meet more people in south florida into CP since i just moved here and i know there aren't many. ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Tue Mar 15 06:39:32 2005 Subject: [CP] sarracenia purpurea on newfoundland currency anyone on the list in newfoundland? where can i get one of these? http://hubben.crosswinds.net/cps/coins/1938NewfoundlandPenny.png i know its the state flower of newfoundland but is it still on the modern everyday currency? ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Tue Mar 15 07:38:09 2005 Subject: [CP] sarracenia purpurea on newfoundland currency Our Canadian penny has maple leaves on it, with a profile of Queen Elizabeth II on the opposite side. Sadly, no S.purpurea, and while some of us don't like to admit it, Newfoundland is part of Canada and uses Canadian currency ;-)! Your best bet is a coin collector. Cheers! Chris > >anyone on the list in newfoundland? where can i get >one of these? > >http://hubben.crosswinds.net/cps/coins/1938NewfoundlandPenny.png > >i know its the state flower of newfoundland but is it >still on the modern everyday currency? > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: greyeagleorchis at earthlink.net (Andy Lanier) Date: Tue Mar 15 07:53:31 2005 Subject: [CP] sarracenia purpurea on newfoundland currency I have a collection of carnivorous plants on coins and currency. Canada has issued two gold coins with Sarracenia purpurea shown and Newfoundland issued years ago both large and small cents with it shown. Will send you a list of everything and to anyone else who is interested. Andy Lanier Our Canadian penny has maple leaves on it, with a profile of Queen Elizabeth II on the opposite side. Sadly, no S.purpurea, and while some of us don't like to admit it, Newfoundland is part of Canada and uses Canadian currency ;-)! Your best bet is a coin collector. Cheers! Chris > >anyone on the list in newfoundland? where can i get >one of these? > >http://hubben.crosswinds.net/cps/coins/1938NewfoundlandPenny.png > >i know its the state flower of newfoundland but is it >still on the modern everyday currency? > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: Sundew1802 at aol.com (Sundew1802@aol.com) Date: Tue Mar 15 08:36:18 2005 Subject: [CP] putting your name in the signature line In a message dated 3/15/05 8:17:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, cixcell@yahoo.com writes: I think it would be a great idea if more people on here put their location in the signature line. You dont have to put your address or anything but itd be good to know where everyone is for trading purposes etc. I myself would like to meet more people in south florida into CP since i just moved here and i know there aren't many. ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Tue Mar 15 08:49:18 2005 Subject: [CP] putting your name in the signature line I've met clyde bramblett and trent and michelle meeks. I'm in Homestead, FL. > How interesting that you didn't put your own name > and new city on the > signature line! Actually there are quite a few > CP'ers in south-central FL. We are > just not well organized yet. > Bob McMorris > Hudson FL ################### From: hpulley at rogers.com (Harry Pulley) Date: Tue Mar 15 12:08:37 2005 Subject: [CP] sarracenia purpurea on newfoundland currency > Our Canadian penny has maple leaves on it, with a profile of Queen Elizabeth > II on the opposite side. Sadly, no S.purpurea, and while some of us don't > like to admit it, Newfoundland is part of Canada and uses Canadian currency > ;-)! Newfoundland only entered into confederation with the rest of Canada in 1949 so the 1938 penny shown was their own currency, not Canadian. :-{} Harry C. Pulley, IV mailto:hpulley@rogers.com http://ca.geocities.com/hpulley4@rogers.com Guelph, Ontario, Canada -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.2 - Release Date: 3/11/05 ################### From: thekubb at gmail.com (harry collier) Date: Tue Mar 15 12:23:54 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Welcome to the "Cp" mailing list hello omnisterra, my name is harry and i live in london,england, i recently purchaced a nepenthes miranda (i had no say in the matter,it was love at first sight!) and i keep it in my bedroom where it seems to be thriving under the adoring gazes of me and all my friends. i would,however,love to give it a treat from time to time and was wondering if i should go and get some flies to put in the pitchers. should i do this? and if so,what is her favourite kind of fly? On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 12:13:02 -0800, Cp-request@omnisterra.com wrote: > Welcome to the Cp@omnisterra.com mailing list! Welcome to the > carnivorous plants discussion group! It is customary for new > subscribers to eventually post a self-introduction message. You might > want to relate how you first got interested in carnivorous plants, > what plants you are growing, and what your current interests are. > > The discussion is not moderated, and usually consists of short > messages offering plants for trade, asking CP questions and advice, > relating experiences with plant propagation, etc. > > To post to this list, send your email to: > > Cp@omnisterra.com > > > General information about the mailing list is at: > > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to > or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your > subscription page at: > > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/options/cp_omnisterra.com/thekubb%40gmail.com > > > You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to: > > Cp-request@omnisterra.com > > > with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the > quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions. > > You must know your password to change your options (including changing > the password, itself) or to unsubscribe. It is: > > urokfa > > > Normally, Mailman will remind you of your omnisterra.com mailing list > passwords once every month, although you can disable this if you > prefer. This reminder will also include instructions on how to > unsubscribe or change your account options. There is also a button on > your options page that will email your current password to you. > > ################### From: rhillier at swconnection.com (Rick Hillier) Date: Tue Mar 15 12:54:14 2005 Subject: [CP] Lost Cephalotus and Sundews Looking For Replacements In Canada Greetings, About a year-and-a-half ago, i had repotted all of my cephalotus and drosera in a new batch of peat-moss. Gradually, I lost just about everything except for some D. adelae, D. capensis (anth-free form and the large form) and D. aliciae. I nearly lost all of the capensis and adelae too, figuring that they were just old and exhausted. I tried a few root cuttings from the capensis and they did produce offshoots, but the leaves were all white and were declining as well. In desperation, I took some long fibred NZ sphagnum and replanted what was remaining of my collection in that medium (after washing all of the old media from the plants first). To my delight, they are greening up (no, it's not mould) and are growing vigorously again. Seems that I had a bad batch of peat moss. I had been growing some of these plants in pure peat moss for over 20 years. I am now looking to re-grow my Drosera and Ceph collection and am willing to pay a fair price for them. If anyone can help me out, it would be very much appreciated. On another note, I was revamping my web site a bit and was looking at the 2004 pics of my bog garden outside. On March 20, I had the pine needles off of the bog and things were starting to green-up nicely. A far cry from this year - lots of snow, temps still below -10C... Could someone in the United States please give that jet stream a good shove north for us? :) Thanks, Rick Hillier http://www.swconnection.com/cp ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Tue Mar 15 13:05:05 2005 Subject: [CP] Thats not what I meant Sorry for the excess post but I meant the title of the thopic was gunman (or something like it) not a member. ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Tue Mar 15 14:19:26 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Terry Ratzmann Hi everyone, I normally joke about a lot of things, but please, in this case, let's not make any jokes. What happened was horrible. Terry was a member of this community. Show a little sensitivity - this situation's not funny AT ALL. Matt ################### From: Killerplants at aol.com (Killerplants@aol.com) Date: Tue Mar 15 16:46:47 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Terry Wow. I never thought I would lose my dark sense of humor, but apparently I have. Joe In a message dated 3/15/2005 2:04:39 P.M. Central Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: In that case, my theory is that he went nuts trying to germinate Byblis gigantea. Was he the one who had to lick all the stamps for those ICPS renewal reminders? ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Tue Mar 15 17:30:48 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Terry mine is still firmly in place, but i now know its limit. Gary Kong Killerplants@aol.com wrote: > >Wow. I never thought I would lose my dark sense of humor, but apparently I >have. > > Joe > > >In a message dated 3/15/2005 2:04:39 P.M. Central Standard Time, >Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: > >In that case, my theory is that he went nuts trying to germinate Byblis >gigantea. > > > > >Was he the one who had to lick all the stamps for those ICPS renewal >reminders? > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Tue Mar 15 18:27:41 2005 Subject: [CP] Misinterpretation-Thanks for info Barry Ok I want ot make it clear the thread on terraforums is named "Wisconson Church Shooting, Gunman was CP grower". NO ONE is named or was named gunman that posted on the forum. I thought that was the threads name and so posted it. I am in no way related to this other then I read the thread and answered the question was Terry R(whatever) a member of this listserv. He was and last posted in 2003 as can easily be found out via the link on terraforums provided by CP2K or via a search of the listserv. let me repeat that Gunman is not the name of anyone on terraforums it was the subtitle to a thread. Sorry if that confused you, Tre ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Tue Mar 15 23:35:46 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Terry Then it's a good thing I refrained from making any comment about "squirrel wars," or it may have proven irrecoverable. In a message dated 3/15/2005 4:47:14 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Killerplants@aol.com writes: Wow. I never thought I would lose my dark sense of humor, but apparently I have. Joe TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Wed Mar 16 10:50:20 2005 Subject: [CP] D x hybrida information sought Hey Folks, Does anyone know if Drosera x hybrida has been found in any eastern US state other than New Jersey? If so, please reply ASAP. Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: MHowlett at hcp4.net (Howlett, Mike) Date: Wed Mar 16 10:53:08 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 14 I would have to agree that D. binata doesn't create offshoots as rapidly as some other sundews, but it also seems to be an uncommonly tenacious plant! I had a 3 inch pot with a several year old D. binata in our greenhouse here at Jesse Jones Park, and it was not watered for an extended period last summer while I was on vacation (thanks again, Stephan! Drop me a reply sometime please.). When I returned, all the leaves were completely black and shriveled up. Over the course of the last nine months, I have kept the pot watered, but at a lower level than usual. And I was rewarded for my efforts! The root sent out a new plant shoot, but instead of growing up to the surface of the pot, it grew DOWN to the water level, then continued out of one of the drainage holes in the bottom! The plant has just recently been repotted, and I was able to ascertain that this was indeed the case at that time. It kind of reminds me of those cartoons you see with a frog in the beak of a bird, grabbing the bird's neck, and with the caption, "don't give up!" Regards, Mike Howlett Naturalist, Herpetoculturist & Carnivorous Plant Enthusiast Jesse H. Jones Park & Nature Center 20634 Kenswick Drive Humble, TX 77338 281-446-8588 mhowlett@hcp4.net www.hcp4.net/jones -----Original Message----- Message: 5 To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" Message-ID: <001201c527cd$ad1153a0$6400a8c0@glph.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 How would you rank them in terms of ease of off-shooting and clumping? Which ones propagate the fastest, and which the slowest? I was just saying the adelae and prolifera seem to go like wild compared to e.g. binata and slackii. D. binata as a plant grows really well but doesn't seem to create offshoots as fast. D. slackii perhaps I am not growing under the right conditions as it seems to grow slowly AND doesn't propagate well. Harry ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Wed Mar 16 11:24:19 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 14 As you well know, there are many different forms and clones of D. binata and it is dangerous to generalize. Some are very shy about producing offshoots, however others are extremely prolific and rapidly produce multiple offshoots without any intervention. -Bob- Howlett, Mike wrote: > I would have to agree that D. binata doesn't create offshoots as rapidly > as some other sundews, but it also seems to be an uncommonly tenacious > plant! I had a 3 inch pot with a several year old D. binata in our > greenhouse here at Jesse Jones Park, and it was not watered for an > extended period last summer while I was on vacation (thanks again, > Stephan! Drop me a reply sometime please.). When I returned, all the > leaves were completely black and shriveled up. > > Over the course of the last nine months, I have kept the pot watered, > but at a lower level than usual. And I was rewarded for my efforts! The > root sent out a new plant shoot, but instead of growing up to the > surface of the pot, it grew DOWN to the water level, then continued out > of one of the drainage holes in the bottom! > > The plant has just recently been repotted, and I was able to ascertain > that this was indeed the case at that time. > > It kind of reminds me of those cartoons you see with a frog in the beak > of a bird, grabbing the bird's neck, and with the caption, "don't give > up!" > > Regards, > > Mike Howlett > Naturalist, Herpetoculturist & Carnivorous Plant Enthusiast > Jesse H. Jones Park & Nature Center > 20634 Kenswick Drive > Humble, TX 77338 > 281-446-8588 > mhowlett@hcp4.net > www.hcp4.net/jones > > > -----Original Message----- > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 08:07:56 -0500 > From: "Harry Pulley" > Subject: Re: [CP] sundew qestion > To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" > Message-ID: > <001201c527cd$ad1153a0$6400a8c0@glph.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > How would you rank them in terms of ease of off-shooting and clumping? > Which ones propagate the fastest, and which the slowest? I was just > saying > the adelae and prolifera seem to go like wild compared to e.g. binata > and > slackii. D. binata as a plant grows really well but doesn't seem to > create > offshoots as fast. D. slackii perhaps I am not growing under the right > conditions as it seems to grow slowly AND doesn't propagate well. > > Harry ################### From: rhillier at swconnection.com (Rick Hillier) Date: Wed Mar 16 12:20:00 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 17 I recently fed my nepenthes some crickets (available at many pet stores, particularly those that sell lizards, geckos and the like). The next set of leaves that appeared were 20 to 50% larger than the ones that were previously being produced, depending on the plant. I would imagine that any reasonably-sized insect would be okay. They don't seem to need a lot, though. One cricket in each pitcher made the difference in my case. >>> Rick <<< > i recently purchaced a nepenthes miranda (i had no say in the > matter,it was love at first sight!) > and i keep it in my bedroom where it seems to be thriving under the > adoring gazes of me and all my friends. > i would,however,love to give it a treat from time to time and was > wondering if i should go and get some flies to put in the pitchers. > should i do this? and if so,what is her favourite kind of fly? ################### From: nickplummer at nc.rr.com (nickplummer@nc.rr.com) Date: Wed Mar 16 12:20:54 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Welcome to the "Cp" mailing list Hello Harry, Welcome to the CP list. Your Nepenthes would certainly welcome some insects for dinner, but they don't have to be flies if those are difficult for you to catch. Here in the US, petshops sell crickets and mealworms (beetle larvae) as lizard and frog food. You may be able to find something similar. The insects don't need to be alive, and fishfood will also work well in a pinch. I've had good results with those cubes of freeze-dried tubifex worms that are sold for tropical fish. You just need to beware of overfeeding the pitcher. If too many or too large insects fed, the pitcher may rot Regards, Nick Chapel Hill, North Carolina > my name is harry and i live in london,england, > > i recently purchaced a nepenthes miranda (i had no say in the > matter,it was love at first sight!) > and i keep it in my bedroom where it seems to be thriving under the > adoring gazes of me and all my friends. > > i would,however,love to give it a treat from time to time and was > wondering if i should go and get some flies to put in the pitchers. > > should i do this? and if so,what is her favourite kind of fly? ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Wed Mar 16 12:59:45 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: hybrida Well BArry I am not sure but I know I bought my D. x. hybrida from Biophylla (www.biophylla.net) when I met the owner. She said she had had it since before Don Schnell came and he identified it for her. It sounded like is was found somewhere or some how obtained. You might try asking Dr. Schnell or her. ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Wed Mar 16 13:06:28 2005 Subject: [CP] Harry Collier introduction Hi Harry, I live about 30 miles NE of London, I always sign off as though I come from London, but if I put where I actually come from , it would be meaningless to other people who live 6,000 miles away. Welcome to the listserv. You will find some postings are fairly technical, most of us like things like that. The basic kind of question that you asked about Nepenthes miranda may get a bit ignored because most people are rather experienced and often, talented growers, who have moved on to more advanced topics. Anyway, you're new so I am going to reply to your posting anyway. If your Nep is growing pretty well, that's good. All Neps need some feeding as time goes by, the ideal feed are insects, such as hatchling locusts, or brown house crickets. I wouldn't use live ones, I would kill them by freezing the pack first,then defrosting what you want. You could use a foliar feed such as quarter strength Phostrogen, which will work, but insects are best, and don't cause the compost to deteriorate. We have a society in the UK, and our website is www.thecarnivorousplantsociety.org Our AGM is at Wisley in April, and if you join the society quickly, you could get in for nothing. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: MHowlett at hcp4.net (Howlett, Mike) Date: Wed Mar 16 13:26:30 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: D. binata The D. binata I am referring to are the T-form, as obtained from the ICPS Seed Bank. Mike Howlett Naturalist, Herpetoculturist & Carnivorous Plant Enthusiast Jesse H. Jones Park & Nature Center 20634 Kenswick Drive Humble, TX 77338 281-446-8588 mhowlett@hcp4.net www.hcp4.net/jones -----Original Message----- Message: 12 To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Message-ID: <423887D0.8030102@humboldt.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed As you well know, there are many different forms and clones of D. binata and it is dangerous to generalize. Some are very shy about producing offshoots, however others are extremely prolific and rapidly produce multiple offshoots without any intervention. -Bob- Howlett, Mike wrote: > I would have to agree that D. binata doesn't create offshoots as rapidly > as some other sundews, but it also seems to be an uncommonly tenacious > plant! I had a 3 inch pot with a several year old D. binata in our > greenhouse here at Jesse Jones Park, and it was not watered for an > extended period last summer while I was on vacation (thanks again, > Stephan! Drop me a reply sometime please.). When I returned, all the > leaves were completely black and shriveled up. > > Over the course of the last nine months, I have kept the pot watered, > but at a lower level than usual. And I was rewarded for my efforts! The > root sent out a new plant shoot, but instead of growing up to the > surface of the pot, it grew DOWN to the water level, then continued out > of one of the drainage holes in the bottom! > > The plant has just recently been repotted, and I was able to ascertain > that this was indeed the case at that time. > > It kind of reminds me of those cartoons you see with a frog in the beak > of a bird, grabbing the bird's neck, and with the caption, "don't give > up!" > > Regards, > > Mike Howlett > Naturalist, Herpetoculturist & Carnivorous Plant Enthusiast > Jesse H. Jones Park & Nature Center > 20634 Kenswick Drive > Humble, TX 77338 > 281-446-8588 > mhowlett@hcp4.net > www.hcp4.net/jones > > > -----Original Message----- > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 08:07:56 -0500 > From: "Harry Pulley" > Subject: Re: [CP] sundew qestion > To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" > Message-ID: > <001201c527cd$ad1153a0$6400a8c0@glph.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > How would you rank them in terms of ease of off-shooting and clumping? > Which ones propagate the fastest, and which the slowest? I was just > saying > the adelae and prolifera seem to go like wild compared to e.g. binata > and > slackii. D. binata as a plant grows really well but doesn't seem to > create > offshoots as fast. D. slackii perhaps I am not growing under the right > conditions as it seems to grow slowly AND doesn't propagate well. > > Harry ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com End of Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 17 ********************************** ################### From: CALIFCARN at aol.com (CALIFCARN@aol.com) Date: Wed Mar 16 14:05:22 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Drosera x hybrida ################### From: willows30 at alltel.net (James A. Rollins) Date: Wed Mar 16 14:35:53 2005 Subject: [CP] CPN ################### From: sardonus at yahoo.com (Hamish McKellar) Date: Wed Mar 16 14:40:02 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 14 Mike, This doesn't surprise me - Australia is an extremely drought prone continent, so binata has adapted to cope with extended periods without rain. Hamish --- Robert Ziemer wrote: > As you well know, there are many different forms and > clones of D. binata > and it is dangerous to generalize. Some are very shy > about producing > offshoots, however others are extremely prolific and > rapidly produce > multiple offshoots without any intervention. > > -Bob- > > Howlett, Mike wrote: > > > I would have to agree that D. binata doesn't > create offshoots as rapidly > > as some other sundews, but it also seems to be an > uncommonly tenacious > > plant! I had a 3 inch pot with a several year old > D. binata in our > > greenhouse here at Jesse Jones Park, and it was > not watered for an > > extended period last summer while I was on > vacation (thanks again, > > Stephan! Drop me a reply sometime please.). When I > returned, all the > > leaves were completely black and shriveled up. > > > > Over the course of the last nine months, I have > kept the pot watered, > > but at a lower level than usual. And I was > rewarded for my efforts! The > > root sent out a new plant shoot, but instead of > growing up to the > > surface of the pot, it grew DOWN to the water > level, then continued out > > of one of the drainage holes in the bottom! > > > > The plant has just recently been repotted, and I > was able to ascertain > > that this was indeed the case at that time. > > > > It kind of reminds me of those cartoons you see > with a frog in the beak > > of a bird, grabbing the bird's neck, and with the > caption, "don't give > > up!" > > > > Regards, > > > > Mike Howlett > > Naturalist, Herpetoculturist & Carnivorous Plant > Enthusiast > > Jesse H. Jones Park & Nature Center > > 20634 Kenswick Drive > > Humble, TX 77338 > > 281-446-8588 > > mhowlett@hcp4.net > > www.hcp4.net/jones > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > Message: 5 > > Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 08:07:56 -0500 > > From: "Harry Pulley" > > Subject: Re: [CP] sundew qestion > > To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" > > > Message-ID: > > > <001201c527cd$ad1153a0$6400a8c0@glph.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > > How would you rank them in terms of ease of > off-shooting and clumping? > > Which ones propagate the fastest, and which the > slowest? I was just > > saying > > the adelae and prolifera seem to go like wild > compared to e.g. binata > > and > > slackii. D. binata as a plant grows really well > but doesn't seem to > > create > > offshoots as fast. D. slackii perhaps I am not > growing under the right > > conditions as it seems to grow slowly AND doesn't > propagate well. > > > > Harry > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ################### From: stovehouse at earthlink.net (Michael Hunt) Date: Wed Mar 16 14:51:10 2005 Subject: [CP] This is the omnisterra hello omnisterra, my name is harry and i live in london,england, i recently purchaced a nepenthes miranda (i had no say in the matter,it was love at first sight!) and i keep it in my bedroom where it seems to be thriving under the adoring gazes of me and all my friends. i would,however,love to give it a treat from time to time and was wondering if i should go and get some flies to put in the pitchers. should i do this? and if so,what is her favourite kind of fly? Hello Harry, Welcome to the CP forum and the omnisterra This is the great and powerful omnisterra speaking and it is ok to give your Nepenthes a Tsetse Fly from time to time. These are the preffered food of the Nepenthes. Some sorts of flies will quickly kill your Nepenthes such as Deer Flies and Horse flies as they will suck the blood from your body when they bite you and the Nepenthes gets very scared and craps out. The narrow arc along the equator ventures through 36 sub-Saharan nations, 22 of which are among the most underdeveloped in the world. In every land, the tsetse fly thrives. As luck would have it there is in fact a Fly Farm in this part of the world which will sell you the tsetse fly, I suggest you write them for their catalog and prices. I cannot remember the exact address but the name of the firm is: Sleeping Very Badly Fly Farm Be careful because while trying to feed the fly to your Nepenthes it could inflict a nasty bite to your flesh, that could cause some problems. I suggest a full body suit similar to what NASA wears. If bitten by the fly imagine having your body slowly destroyed by a parasite that will literally drive you insane. That death is what the bite of the tsetse fly can bring. In the beginning, you may think you have the flu. You can run a high fever, have headaches, joint aches, even itching. As the parasite spreads throughout your bloodstream, it takes its toll on your organs. You can develop anemia or endocrine disorders. You can develop heart and kidney problems. And pregnant women can lose their fetuses. By the time the parasite reaches the central nervous system, you are vulnerable to unpredictable mood changes, and you are so weak that it wears you out to eat or even open your eyes. You are a danger to yourself and others because you can suffer from sudden bouts of aggressiveness. In some villages, the people tie sleeping-sickness victims to huts or poles to keep them from harming others. Eventually wasted and destroyed, sleeping-sickness victims slip into a deep coma and die. So the great omnisterra says be very careful feeding your Nepenthes!! This is the Great Omnisterra signing off. ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Wed Mar 16 15:02:14 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 14 D.binata has some of the thickest roots of any sundew I've seen. While the leaves are definitely susceptible to drying out, I'd think the roots would take a very long time before dying off. South Africa must be similar (prone to drought) as many of the sundews from that area have similar thick, long roots (D.aliciae, D.capensis, D.regia to name a few). Another benefit of these roots is that they are also very resistant to cold temperatures. I've frozen pots of the above many times in winter for several days at a time with no ill effects (other than all the leaves being toasted). Chris > >Mike, > >This doesn't surprise me - Australia is an extremely >drought prone continent, so binata has adapted to cope >with extended periods without rain. > >Hamish > >--- Robert Ziemer wrote: > > As you well know, there are many different forms and > > clones of D. binata > > and it is dangerous to generalize. Some are very shy > > about producing > > offshoots, however others are extremely prolific and > > rapidly produce > > multiple offshoots without any intervention. > > > > -Bob- > > > > Howlett, Mike wrote: > > > > > I would have to agree that D. binata doesn't > > create offshoots as rapidly > > > as some other sundews, but it also seems to be an > > uncommonly tenacious > > > plant! I had a 3 inch pot with a several year old > > D. binata in our > > > greenhouse here at Jesse Jones Park, and it was > > not watered for an > > > extended period last summer while I was on > > vacation (thanks again, > > > Stephan! Drop me a reply sometime please.). When I > > returned, all the > > > leaves were completely black and shriveled up. > > > > > > Over the course of the last nine months, I have > > kept the pot watered, > > > but at a lower level than usual. And I was > > rewarded for my efforts! The > > > root sent out a new plant shoot, but instead of > > growing up to the > > > surface of the pot, it grew DOWN to the water > > level, then continued out > > > of one of the drainage holes in the bottom! > > > > > > The plant has just recently been repotted, and I > > was able to ascertain > > > that this was indeed the case at that time. > > > > > > It kind of reminds me of those cartoons you see > > with a frog in the beak > > > of a bird, grabbing the bird's neck, and with the > > caption, "don't give > > > up!" > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Mike Howlett > > > Naturalist, Herpetoculturist & Carnivorous Plant > > Enthusiast > > > Jesse H. Jones Park & Nature Center > > > 20634 Kenswick Drive > > > Humble, TX 77338 > > > 281-446-8588 > > > mhowlett@hcp4.net > > > www.hcp4.net/jones > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > Message: 5 > > > Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 08:07:56 -0500 > > > From: "Harry Pulley" > > > Subject: Re: [CP] sundew qestion > > > To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" > > > > > Message-ID: > > > > > ><001201c527cd$ad1153a0$6400a8c0@glph.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > > > > How would you rank them in terms of ease of > > off-shooting and clumping? > > > Which ones propagate the fastest, and which the > > slowest? I was just > > > saying > > > the adelae and prolifera seem to go like wild > > compared to e.g. binata > > > and > > > slackii. D. binata as a plant grows really well > > but doesn't seem to > > > create > > > offshoots as fast. D. slackii perhaps I am not > > growing under the right > > > conditions as it seems to grow slowly AND doesn't > > propagate well. > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cp mailing list > > Cp@omnisterra.com > > >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > >Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: stovehouse at earthlink.net (Michael Hunt) Date: Wed Mar 16 15:13:30 2005 Subject: [CP] squirrel To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <54.4034f358.2f693bc0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Then it's a good thing I refrained from making any comment about "squirrel wars," or it may have proven irrecoverable .............. This is the great omnisterra, All take heed to the words of wisdom I will spew. I have the answer to squirrels. The great and powerful Omnisterra has bought a Cairn Terrier, that's right a "ratter". He will be schooled in the finest art of dispatching & dismembering the awful vermin that destroy the plentiful bounty of Sarracenia the great Omnisterra attempts in futile fashion to grow. There is little better for being aggressive, tough, & fast to pursue the vermin squirrel before it gets up the tree. The cairn terrier sits still matching the mulch's coloration waiting for the vermin squirrel to depart the safety of the tree then it pounces and with the proper training it will act as a pit bull in pulling the limbs off making the squirrel like a wiggle worm with no legs or arms as the cairn terrier slowly bites its head off and pull the guts out of the vermin squirrel stuck in my Sarracenia growing habitat. After extensive research I find this animal, the cairn terrier to be a sure fire bet of taking these %$#!@ squirrels out of the picture on a regular basis. And if that doesn't work the Great Omnisterra was given a very nice sling shot by a fellow cp'er , who shall forever remain nameless. With a .38 shot that will put a hurtin for certain on the spring onset of the vermin squirrel. No more poison peanut butter balls here. This has been a special message of helpful knowledge to those in the know from the "Great Omnisterra" signing out. ################### From: CTSsangha at aol.com (CTSsangha@aol.com) Date: Wed Mar 16 19:37:43 2005 Subject: [CP] sundew Looking for a D. binata multifida extreema. ################### From: asplundii at gmail.com (Travis Wyman) Date: Thu Mar 17 05:38:41 2005 Subject: [CP] CPN I was wondering the same thing myself James On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 17:36:24 -0500, James A. Rollins wrote: > Why does it always take so long for the CPN to get to Georgia, USA? > James A. Rollins ################### From: Bluemounttc at aol.com (Bluemounttc@aol.com) Date: Thu Mar 17 07:27:33 2005 Subject: [CP] To Bog or Not to Bog Fellow CP-lovers, I need your help. Upon acquisition of a good number of new CP specimens, someone in our greenhouse put all of them in a new bench built to hold water. Consequently all these plants are sitting in about 2 inches of water, constantly. This is a variety of Sarracenia, Nepenthes, Drosera and a few Pings. I am concerned that this is not the best environment for them. I believe the desire for less frequent, less careful watering prompted this move, but most likely not the best thing for these plants. ################### From: hpulley at rogers.com (Harry Pulley) Date: Thu Mar 17 07:32:46 2005 Subject: [CP] To Bog or Not to Bog --- Bluemounttc@aol.com wrote: > Fellow CP-lovers, I need your help. Upon > acquisition of a good number of > new CP specimens, someone in our greenhouse put all > of them in a new bench > built to hold water. Consequently all these plants > are sitting in about 2 inches > of water, constantly. This is a variety of > Sarracenia, Nepenthes, Drosera and > a few Pings. I am concerned that this is not the > best environment for them. ... During growth seasons I find Sarracenia and Drosera like to sit in water all the time, especially in full sun. During rest periods they need some reduced moisture so I stop soaking them at the appropriate times. Right now mine are in full water. Nepenthes I find don't like this and while they prefer a moist medium all the time, they don't like to be completely waterlogged all the time so I don't let them sit. I don't own any Pings. Harry ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Thu Mar 17 07:40:42 2005 Subject: [CP] To Bog or Not to Bog Hi Bonnie, It should be no problem with having most of these plants sitting in water, and using the tray system is definitely simpler than setting up and maintaining a bog, especially when it comes to removing sick or diseased plants for treatment. My preferred method was to fill up the water trays (often flooding the plants) and then letting the water level drop over time until the tray was just about dry, and then refilling. This was mostly during the summer, in the winter I'd keep the levels lower. Now, Nepenthes can withstand sitting in some water (contrary to popular misconception), but being waterlogged on a constant basis is not very good. Also, depending on what species of Pings and Drosera you have, some of those will not appreciate being waterlogged constantly. North American cp are very adaptable to fluctuations in water levels. How many times have we seen photos of plants or actual plants submerged under a few inches of water with no ill effects? Or bogs being completely dried out due to drought only to return to full splendour when the rains arrive the next year? Cheers! Chris > > Fellow CP-lovers, I need your help. Upon acquisition of a good number >of >new CP specimens, someone in our greenhouse put all of them in a new bench >built to hold water. Consequently all these plants are sitting in about 2 >inches >of water, constantly. This is a variety of Sarracenia, Nepenthes, Drosera >and >a few Pings. I am concerned that this is not the best environment for >them. >I believe the desire for less frequent, less careful watering prompted this >move, but most likely not the best thing for these plants. > >Please reply either to the list or my separate address with your thoughts >and >suggestions. >Many thanks in advance, >Bonnie Collins >bluemounttc@aol.com >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Thu Mar 17 07:42:11 2005 Subject: [CP] To Bog or Not to Bog Hi Bonnie, It should be no problem with having most of these plants sitting in water, and using the tray system is definitely simpler than setting up and maintaining a bog, especially when it comes to removing sick or diseased plants for treatment. My preferred method was to fill up the water trays (often flooding the plants) and then letting the water level drop over time until the tray was just about dry, and then refilling. This was mostly during the summer, in the winter I'd keep the levels lower. Now, Nepenthes can withstand sitting in some water (contrary to popular misconception), but being waterlogged on a constant basis is not very good. Also, depending on what species of Pings and Drosera you have, some of those will not appreciate being waterlogged constantly. North American cp are very adaptable to fluctuations in water levels. How many times have we seen photos of plants or actual plants submerged under a few inches of water with no ill effects? Or bogs being completely dried out due to drought only to return to full splendour when the rains arrive the next year? Cheers! Chris > > Fellow CP-lovers, I need your help. Upon acquisition of a good number >of >new CP specimens, someone in our greenhouse put all of them in a new bench >built to hold water. Consequently all these plants are sitting in about 2 >inches >of water, constantly. This is a variety of Sarracenia, Nepenthes, Drosera >and >a few Pings. I am concerned that this is not the best environment for >them. >I believe the desire for less frequent, less careful watering prompted this >move, but most likely not the best thing for these plants. > >Please reply either to the list or my separate address with your thoughts >and >suggestions. >Many thanks in advance, >Bonnie Collins >bluemounttc@aol.com >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Thu Mar 17 10:00:42 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Seeds from Drosera Burmanni Hi Dinesh, Yes, when the seed capsules of D. burmannii darken the seed is ripening. Once you get a feel for it you can harvest the seed before it's all released. With my indoor setup I can often just cut off the entire scape when all the capsules are ripe and shake the seed out onto a sheet of paper. Sometimes I can't wait and I will snip off each capsule individually just before it starts to release seed. Experiance is the best teacher; you will figure it out I'm sure. I got word that your seed came from D. burmannii from Beerwah Queensland Australia, which I originally collected myself. Keep the location info as this makes a plant more valuable. Are you in Sri Lanka? D. burmannii is found in India as well. I got seed from someone there. That form was a bit different from the Beerwah form. I find the Beerwah more easy to grow but the India variant had a better red coloration. Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California >Thanks Ivan, Greatly appreciate the tip. My plants are kept outdoors. Would I be correct to assume that the seeds in the capsule will be mature when the capsule starts turning yellow / brown? Thanks again, Dinesh ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: cp at pwilson.demon.co.uk (Phil Wilson) Date: Thu Mar 17 11:20:17 2005 Subject: [CP] Harry Collier introduction Hi, > We have a society in the UK, and our website is > www.thecarnivorousplantsociety.org > Our AGM is at Wisley in April, and if you join the society quickly, you > could get in for nothing. Well not nothing because you have to join the society... :-) If you do want to join in time to get into the AGM you will need to contact me because officially I have closed the membership now until April 1st when our new membership year begins. Regards, Phil Wilson Membership Secretary The Carnivorous Plant Society ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Thu Mar 17 11:22:46 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: -Jeremiah- did u get my letter ? -Jeremiah- have you gotten my letter yet? i was just wondering, i cant wait to get your package! -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Thu Mar 17 13:05:17 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: D. x. hybrida Well I compaired the dormant buds of both subspecies of filiformis and the bud of my D.x. hybrida matches filiformis ssp. fiiformis dormant bud. I can safely rule out that the plant is of the ssp. tracyi var. (I have not heard of this being made either). My plant will hopefull become mature this year but from what I can tell the leaf lenght is half of ssp. filiformis (From Brookville, NJ) and so I doubt the plant is 'Florida Giant'/'Red' form also. My bet is the plant was originally made in cultivator or if it was found (I doubt it) It probibly came from NJ. ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Thu Mar 17 13:07:33 2005 Subject: [CP] re:CPN I have not gotten mine either. (FL) ################### From: Jeremiahsplants at adelphia.net (Jeremiah Harris) Date: Thu Mar 17 14:47:34 2005 Subject: [CP] re:CPN I just got mine yesterday, CO. thanks -Jeremiah- ________________________________________________________ Colorado Carnivorous Plant Society Jeremiah Harris 712 Columbia Rd Colorado Springs CO 80904 (719)-578-8123 AIM: Nepenthesrajah jeremiahsplants@adelphia.net http://www.geocities.com/colorado_carnivorousplantsociety/ ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 2:07 PM I have not gotten mine either. (FL) --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more. _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.3 - Release Date: 3/15/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.3 - Release Date: 3/15/2005 ################### From: ThomBroGar at aol.com (ThomBroGar@aol.com) Date: Thu Mar 17 15:07:56 2005 Subject: [CP] Sarracenia cultivar 'Leah Wilkerson' Dear fellow obsessed Sarracenia collectors; As many of you already know, because you have received your March issue of the CPN, I have registered Sarracenia 'Leah Wilkerson' officially. There has been a flood of interest from all over. I have decided to sell a limited number of plants to help recoup some of my costs for the tissue culture lab. I am selling 10 plants at $75 each, one per person please, so as the spread the plants around. However, at this time I am sorry to say that I cannot ship abroad. Be the first on your block to have The "Queen of the Mooeris." Yes, this may seem steep price but, I can honestly say it will be years before the market will see the results from the tissue culture lab. How long do you think it will take to get three ex plants to divide into 1000s of sellable plants? Anyway, think it over and let me know soon, time is crucial. Spring is coming on quickly here and the plants are waking up. Most of these plants will bloom this season and the plant is a vigorous grower. ################### From: rklelaphe1 at verizon.net (rklelaphe1@verizon.net) Date: Thu Mar 17 17:42:07 2005 Subject: [CP] terriers for vermin control Terriers are a potential great control for squirrels - which after all are essentially fuzzy-tailed rats, which many terriers were once, and still are used, to control. But beware, I have a 7-month old Welsh terrier puppy that I'm training for ground trials - AKC's version of terrier hunting, where the dogs navigate 9" square tunnels to work caged rats at the end. The dog's picking it up and probably is also helpful in keeping the squirrels out of the fenced portion of my yard - where my 3' x 10' bog is. But terriers are ... terriers. I've now got a 9-hole golf course - working on 18 - in the yard. And the puppy's shredded the wooden edges of bog picking his teeth. But so far the introduction of a higher-level predator back into the system seems to be worth it. Last year the squirrels got a lot of the Sarracenia flowers as there were developing - not so this year. So - direct that ankle-biting energy where it belongs.. at rodents. Cheers. RKL ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Fri Mar 18 17:48:48 2005 Subject: [CP] Sarracenia cultivar 'Leah Wilkerson' Yeesh, $75? At that price, I expected a new Nepenthes, not a Sarr cultivar! It's a beautiful cultivar, but I think I'll wait until the market has been flooded with them and they're being sold for $2 each ;-)! Chris >Dear fellow obsessed Sarracenia collectors; >As many of you already know, because you have received your March issue of >the CPN, I have registered Sarracenia 'Leah Wilkerson' officially. There >has >been a flood of interest from all over. I have decided to sell a limited >number >of plants to help recoup some of my costs for the tissue culture lab. I am >selling 10 plants at $75 each, one per person please, so as the spread the >plants >around. However, at this time I am sorry to say that I cannot ship abroad. >Be >the first on your block to have The "Queen of the Mooeris." Yes, this may >seem >steep price but, I can honestly say it will be years before the market will >see the results from the tissue culture lab. How long do you think it will >take >to get three ex plants to divide into 1000s of sellable plants? Anyway, >think >it over and let me know soon, time is crucial. Spring is coming on quickly >here and the plants are waking up. Most of these plants will bloom this >season >and the plant is a vigorous grower. > >Brooks Garcia, (SarraceniaObsessed) Atlanta >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: cpfanatic at earthlink.net (Rich Ellis) Date: Fri Mar 18 17:48:51 2005 Subject: [CP] Reintroduction Greetings. I'm not really new to this list but it has been multiple years since I last participated, have changed email addresses and have lost touch with most of y'all. I think I'm almost ready to crawl out my shell after the depression from a recent election. I recognize a lot of the names still posting from way back when so I figured I should stop lurking and say hi. I live in Boulder Colorado and grow a few currently sad looking plants under lights. I'm currently building a greenhouse which I hope might be suitable for lower montane Nepenthes among other things by the beginning of this summer. Cheers, Rich Ellis ################### From: paul.temple at eds.com (Temple, Paul) Date: Fri Mar 18 17:49:23 2005 Subject: [CP] Advance notice of a Dionaea magazine article I just thought one or two CP people might be interested to know of a forthcoming article to be published in the magazine "Wildlife in North Carolina ". The article will appear in the May 2005 edition. A summary of it and related content is: "The Tipitiwitchet Takes Europe" by David S. Lee. A short piece (about 2300 words), it touches on the exchanges between Carolina state, (colony!), and the British collectors, European royalty, et al., intrigued with our little flytrap sensitive. The lead-in: "In a world full of natural wonders, this Carolina native stands out as very strange indeed. The Venus' flytrap has challenged Western notions about the proper scheme of things since the 1700s." Also in the issue is a regular, illustrated Q&A department on biomechanics, Nature's Ways. For the answer to May's question, Does a Venus' flytrap select its victims?, we turn to Charles Darwin, because he "was the first to publish extensively on North Carolina's Venus' flytrap and graciously acknowledged the contributions of North Carolina naturalists to his research." It should be a fairly pleasant and interesting, not-too-heavy read. So nice to be a Brit telling the USA what's happening there. If it hadn't been for a tea party that's still the way it would be!!! :-) Paul Bushey, Hertfordshire, UK. ################### From: Jeremiahsplants at adelphia.net (Jeremiah Harris) Date: Fri Mar 18 20:32:50 2005 Subject: [CP] Reintroduction Hello, Great to see you here. How have you been? I don't know if you know this but the CCPS will be at the Colorado Convention Center in Denver, which is not to far from Mile High Stadium. We will have Carnivorous Plants on display and for sale. Admission is $9.50 to the Flower and Landscaping Show but let me know if you want to come and I can get you free tickets. The show times are Friday, April 1st 1:00 pm to 8:00 pm Saturday, April 2nd 10:00 am to 7:00 pm Sunday April 3rd 11:00 am to 5:00 pm Let me know if you need any tickets and I can mail them right away. thanks -Jeremiah- ________________________________________________________ Colorado Carnivorous Plant Society Jeremiah Harris 712 Columbia Rd Colorado Springs CO 80904 (719)-578-8123 AIM: Nepenthesrajah jeremiahsplants@adelphia.net http://www.geocities.com/colorado_carnivorousplantsociety/ ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 8:55 AM Greetings. I'm not really new to this list but it has been multiple years since I last participated, have changed email addresses and have lost touch with most of y'all. I think I'm almost ready to crawl out my shell after the depression from a recent election. I recognize a lot of the names still posting from way back when so I figured I should stop lurking and say hi. I live in Boulder Colorado and grow a few currently sad looking plants under lights. I'm currently building a greenhouse which I hope might be suitable for lower montane Nepenthes among other things by the beginning of this summer. Cheers, Rich Ellis _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: snong69 at hotmail.com (Snong) Date: Sat Mar 19 00:04:41 2005 Subject: [CP] How to eat Nepenthes. A pictorial article with recipe showing how to prepare " Sticky rice = with Coconut Cream inNepenthes Pitcher". at : = http://www.neofarmthailand.com/index.php?lay=3Dshow&ac=3Darticle&Id=3D246= 46&Ntype=3D6 NongFrom SchanbaB at pediatrics.ohio-state.edu Sat Mar 19 06:37:08 2005 Message-ID: <714B9F12B4E18C4C843B66E8E190F2AD055B92@res2k3ms01.CRII.ORG> This has been the first full winter for my outdoor bog. I covered it with a good layer of pine straw (and a few pine boughs) to keep the wind off of it and mitigate temperature fluctuations. I was wondering if anyone could advise when I should remove the mulch. I peeked under the mulch and no new growth or flower stalks are visible yet (but things appear to have survived). Should I wait until growth is visible, or remove the mulch before then to allow the soil to warm up? Temperatures here in Ohio look to be in the 40's and 50's for the next week with lows in the 30's. Thanks for any help. -Brandon ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Sat Mar 19 08:48:16 2005 Subject: [CP] How to eat Nepenthes. Wow, great pictures! My only concern is that it looks like they're harvesting a lot of plants for this recipe. Do they pull up the entire plant, or just cut off the top allowing the plant to regenerate itself with time? Can't say I'll be trying this recipe any time soon, but it's definitely intriguing! Chris > >A pictorial article with recipe showing how to prepare " Sticky rice with >Coconut Cream inNepenthes Pitcher". >at : >http://www.neofarmthailand.com/index.php?lay=show&ac=article&Id=24646&Ntype=6 > Nong >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: jcumbee at alltel.net (Joe Cumbee) Date: Sat Mar 19 15:10:10 2005 Subject: [CP] When to remove mulch from an outdoor bog? Brandon, Depending on how thick of a layer of pine straw you have. Tall Sarracenias will grow through. I personally keep a layer of pine straw as mulch year round in my bogs. It helps keep weeds from growing. On smaller plants remove the boughs and just push back the straw, making a hole, then thin it out around the plant so it can see daylight.. You will be surprised how much it helps in keeping weeds under control. I send pine straw through a leaf shredder once or twice and it makes the perfect weed barrier mulch. Joe Cumbee South Georgia USA ********************************* This has been the first full winter for my outdoor bog. I covered it with a good layer of pine straw (and a few pine boughs) to keep the wind off of it and mitigate temperature fluctuations. I was wondering if anyone could advise when I should remove the mulch. I peeked under the mulch and no new growth or flower stalks are visible yet (but things appear to have survived). Should I wait until growth is visible, or remove the mulch before then to allow the soil to warm up? Temperatures here in Ohio look to be in the 40's and 50's for the next week with lows in the 30's. Thanks for any help. -Brandon ################### From: snong69 at hotmail.com (Snong) Date: Sat Mar 19 21:06:45 2005 Subject: [CP] Re Chris: How to eat Nepenthes. Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 20 Don't worry , Chris. They just selectively picked the pitchers they want.This helps explain why they have been able to supply the market their product continuously for more than 100 years. If you'll be trying this recipe .I suggest you to perform a small research.Use other pitchers further than mirabilis , such as veitchii , purple albomarginata , red ampullaria , "Kuru" Viking and compare their taste. Nong , Thailand ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 3:00 AM > Send Cp mailing list submissions to > Cp@omnisterra.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > Cp-request@omnisterra.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > Cp-owner@omnisterra.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Cp digest..." > > > CP Mailing list > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: D. x. hybrida (Tre Bond) > 2. re:CPN (Tre Bond) > 3. Re: re:CPN (Jeremiah Harris) > 4. Sarracenia cultivar 'Leah Wilkerson' (ThomBroGar@aol.com) > 5. terriers for vermin control (rklelaphe1@verizon.net) > 6. RE: Sarracenia cultivar 'Leah Wilkerson' (Chris Teichreb) > 7. Reintroduction (Rich Ellis) > 8. Advance notice of a Dionaea magazine article (Temple, Paul) > 9. Re: Reintroduction (Jeremiah Harris) > 10. How to eat Nepenthes. (Snong) > 11. When to remove mulch from an outdoor bog? (Schanbacher, Brandon) > 12. RE: How to eat Nepenthes. (Chris Teichreb) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 13:05:05 -0800 (PST) > From: Tre Bond > Subject: [CP] Re: D. x. hybrida > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050317210505.85142.qmail@web53302.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Well I compaired the dormant buds of both subspecies of filiformis and the > bud of my D.x. hybrida matches filiformis ssp. fiiformis dormant bud. I > can safely rule out that the plant is of the ssp. tracyi var. (I have not > heard of this being made either). My plant will hopefull become mature > this year but from what I can tell the leaf lenght is half of ssp. > filiformis (From Brookville, NJ) and so I doubt the plant is 'Florida > Giant'/'Red' form also. My bet is the plant was originally made in > cultivator or if it was found (I doubt it) It probibly came from NJ. > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 13:07:23 -0800 (PST) > From: Tre Bond > Subject: [CP] re:CPN > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050317210723.85832.qmail@web53302.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I have not gotten mine either. (FL) > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more. > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 15:47:17 -0700 > From: "Jeremiah Harris" > Subject: Re: [CP] re:CPN > To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" > Message-ID: <007f01c52b43$450b2a50$3300000a@Levi> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I just got mine yesterday, CO. > > thanks > -Jeremiah- > ________________________________________________________ > Colorado Carnivorous Plant Society > Jeremiah Harris > 712 Columbia Rd > Colorado Springs CO 80904 > (719)-578-8123 > AIM: Nepenthesrajah > jeremiahsplants@adelphia.net > http://www.geocities.com/colorado_carnivorousplantsociety/ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tre Bond" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 2:07 PM > Subject: [CP] re:CPN > > > I have not gotten mine either. (FL) > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more. > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.3 - Release Date: 3/15/2005 > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.3 - Release Date: 3/15/2005 > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 18:07:34 EST > From: ThomBroGar@aol.com > Subject: [CP] Sarracenia cultivar 'Leah Wilkerson' > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <142.41b496f3.2f6b67b6@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Dear fellow obsessed Sarracenia collectors; > As many of you already know, because you have received your March issue of > the CPN, I have registered Sarracenia 'Leah Wilkerson' officially. There > has > been a flood of interest from all over. I have decided to sell a limited > number > of plants to help recoup some of my costs for the tissue culture lab. I am > selling 10 plants at $75 each, one per person please, so as the spread the > plants > around. However, at this time I am sorry to say that I cannot ship abroad. > Be > the first on your block to have The "Queen of the Mooeris." Yes, this may > seem > steep price but, I can honestly say it will be years before the market > will > see the results from the tissue culture lab. How long do you think it will > take > to get three ex plants to divide into 1000s of sellable plants? Anyway, > think > it over and let me know soon, time is crucial. Spring is coming on quickly > here and the plants are waking up. Most of these plants will bloom this > season > and the plant is a vigorous grower. > > Brooks Garcia, (SarraceniaObsessed) Atlanta > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 19:41:52 -0600 > From: > Subject: [CP] terriers for vermin control > To: > Message-ID: <0IDI00J23Y1S3MU0@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Terriers are a potential great control for squirrels - which after all are > essentially fuzzy-tailed rats, which many terriers were once, and still > are used, to control. But beware, I have a 7-month old Welsh terrier > puppy that I'm training for ground trials - AKC's version of terrier > hunting, where the dogs navigate 9" square tunnels to work caged rats at > the end. The dog's picking it up and probably is also helpful in keeping > the squirrels out of the fenced portion of my yard - where my 3' x 10' bog > is. But terriers are ... terriers. I've now got a 9-hole golf course - > working on 18 - in the yard. And the puppy's shredded the wooden edges of > bog picking his teeth. But so far the introduction of a higher-level > predator back into the system seems to be worth it. Last year the > squirrels got a lot of the Sarracenia flowers as there were developing - > not so this year. So - direct that ankle-biting energy where it belongs.. > at rodents. Cheers. RKL > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 06:50:13 -0800 > From: "Chris Teichreb" > Subject: RE: [CP] Sarracenia cultivar 'Leah Wilkerson' > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > Yeesh, $75? At that price, I expected a new Nepenthes, not a Sarr > cultivar! > It's a beautiful cultivar, but I think I'll wait until the market has > been > flooded with them and they're being sold for $2 each ;-)! > > Chris > >>Dear fellow obsessed Sarracenia collectors; >>As many of you already know, because you have received your March issue of >>the CPN, I have registered Sarracenia 'Leah Wilkerson' officially. There >>has >>been a flood of interest from all over. I have decided to sell a limited >>number >>of plants to help recoup some of my costs for the tissue culture lab. I am >>selling 10 plants at $75 each, one per person please, so as the spread the >>plants >>around. However, at this time I am sorry to say that I cannot ship abroad. >>Be >>the first on your block to have The "Queen of the Mooeris." Yes, this may >>seem >>steep price but, I can honestly say it will be years before the market >>will >>see the results from the tissue culture lab. How long do you think it will >>take >>to get three ex plants to divide into 1000s of sellable plants? Anyway, >>think >>it over and let me know soon, time is crucial. Spring is coming on quickly >>here and the plants are waking up. Most of these plants will bloom this >>season >>and the plant is a vigorous grower. >> >>Brooks Garcia, (SarraceniaObsessed) Atlanta >>_______________________________________________ >>Cp mailing list >>Cp@omnisterra.com >>http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:55:57 -0700 (GMT-07:00) > From: Rich Ellis > Subject: [CP] Reintroduction > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > <2255938.1111161357475.JavaMail.root@thecount.psp.pas.earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Greetings. I'm not really new to this list but it has been multiple years > since I last participated, have changed email addresses and have lost > touch with most of y'all. I think I'm almost ready to crawl out my shell > after the depression from a recent election. I recognize a lot of the > names still posting from way back when so I figured I should stop lurking > and say hi. I live in Boulder Colorado and grow a few currently sad > looking plants under lights. I'm currently building a greenhouse which I > hope might be suitable for lower montane Nepenthes among other things by > the beginning of this summer. > > Cheers, > Rich Ellis > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 16:52:04 -0000 > From: "Temple, Paul" > Subject: [CP] Advance notice of a Dionaea magazine article > To: "'Cp@omnisterra.com'" > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain > > I just thought one or two CP people might be interested to know of a > forthcoming article to be published in the magazine "Wildlife in North > Carolina > ". The article will appear in the May 2005 edition. A summary of it and > related content is: > > "The Tipitiwitchet Takes Europe" by David S. Lee. A short piece > (about 2300 words), it touches on the exchanges between Carolina state, > (colony!), and the British collectors, European royalty, et al., intrigued > with our little flytrap sensitive. The lead-in: > "In a world full of natural wonders, this Carolina native stands out > as very strange indeed. The Venus' flytrap has challenged Western notions > about the proper scheme of things since the 1700s." > Also in the issue is a regular, illustrated Q&A department on > biomechanics, Nature's Ways. For the answer to May's question, Does a > Venus' > flytrap select its victims?, we turn to Charles Darwin, because he "was > the > first to publish extensively on North Carolina's Venus' flytrap and > graciously acknowledged the contributions of North Carolina naturalists to > his research." > > It should be a fairly pleasant and interesting, not-too-heavy read. > > So nice to be a Brit telling the USA what's happening there. If it hadn't > been for a tea party that's still the way it would be!!! :-) > > Paul > Bushey, Hertfordshire, UK. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 21:32:36 -0700 > From: "Jeremiah Harris" > Subject: Re: [CP] Reintroduction > To: "Rich Ellis" , "Carnivorous Plant > Discussion group" > Message-ID: <006401c52c3c$adc7f5b0$3300000a@Levi> > > Hello, > > Great to see you here. How have you been? I don't know if you know this > but the CCPS will be at the Colorado Convention Center in Denver, which is > not to far from Mile High Stadium. We will have Carnivorous Plants on > display and for sale. Admission is $9.50 to the Flower and Landscaping > Show > but let me know if you want to come and I can get you free tickets. The > show > times are > Friday, April 1st 1:00 pm to 8:00 pm > Saturday, April 2nd 10:00 am to 7:00 pm > Sunday April 3rd 11:00 am to 5:00 pm > > Let me know if you need any tickets and I can mail them right away. > > thanks > -Jeremiah- > ________________________________________________________ > Colorado Carnivorous Plant Society > Jeremiah Harris > 712 Columbia Rd > Colorado Springs CO 80904 > (719)-578-8123 > AIM: Nepenthesrajah > jeremiahsplants@adelphia.net > http://www.geocities.com/colorado_carnivorousplantsociety/ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rich Ellis" > To: > Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 8:55 AM > Subject: [CP] Reintroduction > > > Greetings. I'm not really new to this list but it has been multiple years > since I last participated, have changed email addresses and have lost > touch > with most of y'all. I think I'm almost ready to crawl out my shell after > the depression from a recent election. I recognize a lot of the names > still > posting from way back when so I figured I should stop lurking and say hi. > I > live in Boulder Colorado and grow a few currently sad looking plants under > lights. I'm currently building a greenhouse which I hope might be > suitable > for lower montane Nepenthes among other things by the beginning of this > summer. > > Cheers, > Rich Ellis > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 15:04:32 +0700 > From: "Snong" > Subject: [CP] How to eat Nepenthes. > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-874" > > A pictorial article with recipe showing how to prepare " Sticky rice with > Coconut Cream inNepenthes Pitcher". > at : > http://www.neofarmthailand.com/index.php?lay=show&ac=article&Id=24646&Ntype=6 > Nong > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 09:37:08 -0500 > From: "Schanbacher, Brandon" > Subject: [CP] When to remove mulch from an outdoor bog? > To: > Message-ID: > <714B9F12B4E18C4C843B66E8E190F2AD055B92@res2k3ms01.CRII.ORG> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > This has been the first full winter for my outdoor bog. I covered it with > a good layer of pine straw (and a few pine boughs) to keep the wind off of > it and mitigate temperature fluctuations. I was wondering if anyone could > advise when I should remove the mulch. > > I peeked under the mulch and no new growth or flower stalks are visible > yet (but things appear to have survived). Should I wait until growth is > visible, or remove the mulch before then to allow the soil to warm up? > Temperatures here in Ohio look to be in the 40's and 50's for the next > week with lows in the 30's. > > Thanks for any help. > > -Brandon > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 08:48:09 -0800 > From: "Chris Teichreb" > Subject: RE: [CP] How to eat Nepenthes. > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > Wow, great pictures! My only concern is that it looks like they're > harvesting a lot of plants for this recipe. Do they pull up the entire > plant, or just cut off the top allowing the plant to regenerate itself > with > time? Can't say I'll be trying this recipe any time soon, but it's > definitely intriguing! > > Chris > >> >>A pictorial article with recipe showing how to prepare " Sticky rice with >>Coconut Cream inNepenthes Pitcher". >>at : >>http://www.neofarmthailand.com/index.php?lay=show&ac=article&Id=24646&Ntype=6 >> Nong >>_______________________________________________ >>Cp mailing list >>Cp@omnisterra.com >>http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > End of Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 20 > ********************************** > ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Sun Mar 20 02:58:13 2005 Subject: [CP] Sarracenia cultivar and CPN 10 plants at $75 each, hmm, does the tax man know about you ? On another thread, I received my CPN last week. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu) Date: Sun Mar 20 08:08:09 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Darwin cultivar Dear Ivan, It would probsably be more accuarate to say "directed evolution" instead of "artificial evolution". What ever the reason for it, the evolving going on in man-made sitautions is still very real and life will be different in the future as a result. Dave Evans > I was very interested to learn that > the words "natural selection" were taken from "artificial selection" > or breeding. I suppose we could call domestication "artificial > evolution". > Ivan Snyder > Hermosa Beach > California ################### From: ClaraVoiAunt at aol.com (ClaraVoiAunt@aol.com) Date: Sun Mar 20 17:45:45 2005 Subject: [CP] re:CPN Oh. so now they are getting the CPN quicker in London, than jest 1 1/2 hr drive from where they are mailed. Shows what progress the postal system has made. Lois In a message dated 3/20/2005 12:02:12 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: I received my CPN last week. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: dinesh at ndbib.lanka.net (Dinesh Fernando) Date: Sun Mar 20 20:32:32 2005 Subject: [CP] Carnivorous plants of Sri Lanka Does anyone know what CP species grow in Sri Lanka (other than Nepenthes distillatoria). I'm sure there must be more than one species. Thanks, Dinesh. ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Sun Mar 20 21:29:04 2005 Subject: [CP] Sarracenia cultivar and CPN As someone else pointed out, if it was an attractive Nepenthes cultivar or species we wouldn't think twice in spending this money. And likely, unless we had some sort of esoteric and arcane growing chamber set up, we'd kill it. Yet a cool Sarracenia which we could likely easily keep alive and very few want to spring for it. Seems to me like it's a much better way to spend the money. And I don't see anyone implying that these nurseries charging big bucks for their Nepenthes are gouging people. In a message dated 3/20/2005 2:58:40 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, nepenthesdave@hotmail.com writes: 10 plants at $75 each, hmm, does the tax man know about you ? On another thread, I received my CPN last week. Regards David Ahrens London. TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Mon Mar 21 13:49:03 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Nep prices Well we can complain all we want about Nep prices (like hamata) but since so few have it I guess it's just supply and demand. More demand then supply, that is. But I must agree that high prices seem like gouging but I know Brooks and have to say that the money is probibly being used to help save other Cps from certain destruction or in some other manner which is entirly agreeable. Tre ################### From: sardonus at yahoo.com (Hamish McKellar) Date: Mon Mar 21 14:52:25 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Nep prices Tre, I think it's a bit of a mixed bag. I think many growers don't appreciate the amount of effort and risk, and hence money, that goes into finding an developing new species. I have spoken with people like Rob Cantley and Rod Kruger about the dangers faced in going to remote, disease-ridden and large carnivore-infested locations, sometimes with little or nothing to show for it (other than a close encounter with a crocodile or malaria). I'm sure other intrepid explorers like Andreas Wistuba, Charles Clarke and Troy Davis have colourful anecdotes to share. Even when brought into the lab, some species prove difficult to tissue culture or cultivate, and sometimes nothing germinates. Heaps of time and money can be poured into it to get it right. Accordingly, the only way to recoup the establishment costs is to charge high prices. I think this is valid for new, or difficult to cultivate species. For other species which have been in cultivation for a while, where the grower has seed on tap, or in the case of hybrids, it's all fat. I am amazed at the prices that some people will pay for hybrids, given that little goes into making them. But it's all about market economics, supply and demand and the like, so people are willing to pay big bucks to get a plants a year or two before it becomes cheap, or they can make the hybrid themselves. After all, if you think it's too expensive, just don't buy it. Hamish --- Tre Bond wrote: > Well we can complain all we want about Nep prices > (like hamata) but since so few have it I guess it's > just supply and demand. More demand then supply, > that is. But I must agree that high prices seem > like gouging but I know Brooks and have to say that > the money is probibly being used to help save other > Cps from certain destruction or in some other manner > which is entirly agreeable. > Tre > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced > search. Learn more. > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ################### From: wildlifegardener at sbcglobal.net (WildLifeGardener) Date: Mon Mar 21 16:40:50 2005 Subject: [CP] Regarding ' Leah Wilkerson' Regarding the Sarracenias being offered by Brooks, I would be honored to buy one for myself personally. Thank goodness for people like him who go into the community and educate land owners. Where may I send the check? Take Care, Laura Message: 3 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <1e0.3856fc42.2f6fb584@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" As someone else pointed out, if it was an attractive Nepenthes cultivar or species we wouldn't think twice in spending this money. And likely, unless we had some sort of esoteric and arcane growing chamber set up, we'd kill it. Yet a cool Sarracenia which we could likely easily keep alive and very few want to spring for it. Seems to me like it's a much better way to spend the money. And I don't see anyone implying that these nurseries charging big bucks for their Nepenthes are gouging people. ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Tue Mar 22 09:01:38 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Darwin cultivar Hi Dave, Yes indeed. More and more plants are evolving in response to association with Man, including CPs. As I mentioned before, "artificial selection", as in breeding was well known before Darwin. Darwin used this term when he described "natural selection". Breeding was then thought of as an art. Origin of artificial: artis-art + facere-make. Today we use a bit different definition, artificial = made by human skill or labor; not natural. I like the orininal definition as I feel our CP cultivars are truly works of art. They have no real practical use other than for enjoyment. Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California >Dear Ivan, It would probsably be more accuarate to say "directed evolution" instead of "artificial evolution". What ever the reason for it, the evolving going on in man-made sitautions is still very real and life will be different in the future as a result. Dave Evans ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Tue Mar 22 11:48:41 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Darwin cultivar I would be in agreement with Dave in that our efforts in breeding could best be described as "selective evolution." This does not, however mean that we do not have "artificial evolution," as well. Efforts in the arena of gene splicing would fall into that category, in my opinion. TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Tue Mar 22 12:17:32 2005 Subject: [CP] Time to contribute to CPN Hey Folks, I'm looking at our queue of publications lined up for the next couple of issues of CPN, and I'm seeing a predominance of scientific articles and field reports that get some of the more cantankerous members of the ICPS riled up about how CPN is too scientific or whatever. So, I exhort you to think about the CP pursuits you most enjoy, and write articles about them. Merely typing notes to the CP listserve, complaining that other more-productive ICPS members are contributing material that is boring to you is not particularly helpful. So write! **Do you want to document some weird botanical monstrosity, like a pitcher plant with three traps? **Do you want to describe the day your cat got into your terrarium, and what surprise resulted from that? **Do you want to tell about the time you froze your mature S. flava in your freezer in an effort to kill the aphids on it? **Do you want to describe your unique collection of adhesive tape dispensers with carnivorous plant themes? Be creative, constructive, and instrumental in making CPN a publication reflecting YOUR interests. Cheers Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: ThomBroGar at aol.com (ThomBroGar@aol.com) Date: Tue Mar 22 15:10:17 2005 Subject: [CP] 'Leah Wilkerson,' Supply and Demand and, TC Fellow Cpers, Thanks you all for you interest in this plant and your support. At this time, the ten plants I offered have all been purchased. Good Growing to those who got a piece. What I wanted to do was offer at least a few plants to those who were very interested in having this exceptional plant. I have only been at this hobby a few years and I am awe struck with these plants, some even say I am obsessed. I have been gardening for 35 years and it has been years since I was this excited about a plant. While indulging this obsession, I have been frustrated to come across a cultivar description and photo, to do research, only to find that the plant I am seeking is rare or not available. I hoped to avoid that scenario for others with 'Leah.' It has been a several year process getting this plant to this point, from first finding the plant, finding out actually that it is an exceptional plant worthy of cultivar status, gaining proper written permission from the owner, collecting sufficient specimens, finding a willing TC lab, negotiation a lab fee, timing the TC process, waiting, waiting, waiting, having success, having failure, registering the cultivar name with the ICPS and now there will be production. Some have insinuated that there is a profit here to be made. I can assure you that is not nor has it ever been my intention or goal. It has been my pleasure and joy to find fellow enthusiasts to share my excitement with but the biggest joy has been the relationship I have made with Mrs. Wilkerson, educating her about the treasure she calls her front yard, seeing the excitement in her eyes at seeing how the world has responded to a plant from her yard and the honor of naming this plant for her for her stewardship. My hope is that she will place a conservation easement on her property and protect these incredible plants and their delicate ecosystem. She along with her father have protected this bog for well over 60 years. Through Mrs. Wilkerson, I have found another bog on the property owned by her brother in law, Bud Wilkerson. He too is now excited about his bog and wants to do all that he can to manage and protect it. Some much of Sarracenia habitat is under siege and is being destroyed along the Gulf Coast, I hope I can save these two small pieces. Should there be any profit from the sale of 'Leah Wilkerson' I promise that money to Mrs. Wilkerson. Some of you mentioned the difficulties in getting a cultivar to market stage. As I mentioned above, the process involved getting to this point has been a complex one. The tissue culture process has been exciting and stressful. First off, there are not TC labs on every corner like photo labs, secondly not all are the same and typically they are not interested in doing a one shot small deal like this. I lucked out. Anything with flava blood in it is notoriously difficult if not impossible to TC. They simply cannot get a clean culture on it. Take for example the cultivar 'Adrian Slack,' a highly sought after, stunningly beautiful, moorei cross. (just like 'Leah') For over 5 year they have been unable to get it to TC cleanly, thus no 'AS' on the market and probably never will be. I found a willing lab and contracted for a handsome sum to have 'Leah' TCed or at least to try to TC it. Luck was with me again along with the luck of a very skilled technician, 'Leah' took the first try with four clean cultures! One culture has since failed and died. We are not out of the woods yet. The three remaining cultures have been transferred to growing medium. They still will need to be transferred to a standard medium and then onto production. I am told more could die in the transfer from the growth medium to the standard medium. All I need is one. Production, I am not even sure what that means or will cost. I will have to find a company willing to do that and negotiate a contract. Thus far I have found no takers. So, you see this is not easy. I understand from Dr. Mellichamp that his series of plants took 15 years to get to market. Perhaps $75 was not enough? So, why did I do all this? For the fun, for the thrill, for the fellowship and friendships and, to be able to say I introduced a cultivar to the world and hopefully to make a difference in what happens to these plants. Thanks again and good growing, ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Tue Mar 22 16:24:45 2005 Subject: [CP] newbie qestion ok, bear with me, i want to know if i did this right, i pealed a leaf and trap off of my vft and got some of the white base with it, i put some hormone rooting powder on it and buried the white part in a 50/50 mix sand and peat and put a dome over it to keep humidity up. can somebody tell me if i did this right? and if so, how long does it take for "babys" to come up? thanks, jon -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: sclancy at uci.edu (Stephen Clancy) Date: Tue Mar 22 16:28:03 2005 Subject: [CP] Biological Flora of the British Isles: Pinguicula L.. Howdy. The December 2004 issue of this JOURNAL OF ECOLOGY has a nice cover of Pinguicula vulgaris, and an informative article inside discussing geographical and altitudinal distribution, habitat, communities, and more. It contains a nice worldwide distribution map, and a British Isles distribution map. It also includes floristic tables for some P. vulgaris communities. The full citation is: Heslop-Harrison J Biological Flora of the British Isles: Pinguicula L. JOURNAL OF ECOLOGY 92 (6): 1071-1118 DEC 2004 Check your local academic library for a copy ;-) --steve the librarian. -- -- Steve Clancy, MLS AHIP Acting Library Medical Education Coordinator, Library Proxy Coordinator Science Library, Univ. of Calif., Irvine CA. U.S.A. 949-824-7309 * sclancy AT uci.edu * sun3.lib.uci.edu/~sclancy --------------------------------------------------------------- "My name is Inigo Montoya. You spammed my father. Prepare to die." ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Tue Mar 22 17:07:45 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Nep prices Yes Hamish thats why I said it "seems" like gouging. I did not say gouging. I realise all the work that goes into it. I just wanted to get out there that Brooks is one of those people and so the prices are not expensive just because. He will put that money to good use. It sort of like Meadowview. No one can complain about them and I was trying to show he was in a way like them. ################### From: john63401 at fastmail.fm (John) Date: Wed Mar 23 07:45:22 2005 Subject: [CP] self watering pot good? I came across something at Home Depot yesterday that I wondered if could be used for CPs. It was a pot called a "self watering" pot. I live in north Missouri and would like to grow some pitcher plants outside this summer setting in pots. I rent so cant have a bog. Would the self watering pots be a good idea say for S Flava and other sarrs? ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Wed Mar 23 10:55:35 2005 Subject: [CP] 'Leah Wilkerson,' Supply and Demand and, TC Brooks, >So, you see this is not easy. I understand from Dr. Mellichamp that his >series >of plants took 15 years to get to market. Perhaps $75 was not enough? So, >why >did I do all this? For the fun, for the thrill, for the fellowship and >friendships and, to be able to say I introduced a cultivar to the world and >hopefully >to make a difference in what happens to these plants. So why bother with the tc? My experience with Sarracenia is that they grow fast enough that there's no need to bother with tc. Yes, a specific cultivar may remain elusive for a while, but it will be propagated if there is the demand. Using Barry's newly reintroduced leaf pulling method would be a great way to get a lot of plants quickly and at a much cheaper cost than tc'ing. Part of the problem, as I see it, is that you're jumping the gun. You're trying to produce thousands of clones of a plant that has just been introduced via CPN without knowing whether or not there will even be the demand for all these plants. I'm sure at a cheap enough price, they would all sell, but it seems to me that you should have tested the waters first to make certain there is the demand out there. Sarracenia are, unfortunately, not as popular as other plants like vfts or Nepenthes which are typically much more difficult to cultivate. I appreciate your enthusiasm, I just think that rushing into things can put off people. Maybe I'm just a cheap curmudgeon (actually I know I am, but that's besides the point!). Cheers! Chris ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Wed Mar 23 11:57:01 2005 Subject: [CP] 'Leah Wilkerson,' Supply and Demand and, TC brooks-- it is a lovely cultivar. but for GOD'S SAKE, use paragraph breaks!!! do you know how hard it is to relocate the line you were on when you're scrolling??? ;) gary kong ThomBroGar@aol.com wrote: >Fellow Cpers, Thanks you all for you interest in this plant and your >support. At this time, the ten plants I offered have all been >purchased. Good Growing to those who got a piece. What I wanted to do >was offer at least a few plants to those who were very interested in >having this exceptional plant. I have only been at this hobby a few >years and I am awe struck with these plants, some even say I am >obsessed. I have been gardening for 35 years and it has been years >since I was this excited about a plant. While indulging this >obsession, I have been frustrated to come across a cultivar description >and photo, to do research, only to find that the plant I am seeking is >rare or not available. I hoped to avoid that scenario for others with >'Leah.' It has been a several year process getting this plant to this >point, from first finding the plant, finding out actually that it is an >exceptional plant worthy of cultivar status, gaining proper written >permission from the owner, collecting sufficient specimens, finding a >willing TC lab, negotiation a lab fee, timing the TC process, waiting, >waiting, waiting, having success, having failure, registering the >cultivar name with the ICPS and now there will be production. Some >have insinuated that there is a profit here to be made. I can assure >you that is not nor has it ever been my intention or goal. It has been >my pleasure and joy to find fellow enthusiasts to share my excitement >with but the biggest joy has been the relationship I have made with >Mrs. Wilkerson, educating her about the treasure she calls her front >yard, seeing the excitement in her eyes at seeing how the world has >responded to a plant from her yard and the honor of naming this plant >for her for her stewardship. My hope is that she will place a >conservation easement on her property and protect these incredible >plants and their delicate ecosystem. She along with her father have >protected this bog for well over 60 years. Through Mrs. Wilkerson, I >have found another bog on the property owned by her brother in law, Bud >Wilkerson. He too is now excited about his bog and wants to do all >that he can to manage and protect it. Some much of Sarracenia habitat >is under siege and is being destroyed along the Gulf Coast, I hope I >can save these two small pieces. Should there be any profit from the >sale of 'Leah Wilkerson' I promise that money to Mrs. Wilkerson. Some >of you mentioned the difficulties in getting a cultivar to market >stage. As I mentioned above, the process involved getting to this >point has been a complex one. The tissue culture process has been >exciting and stressful. First off, there are not TC labs on every >corner like photo labs, secondly not all are the same and typically >they are not interested in doing a one shot small deal like this. I >lucked out. Anything with flava blood in it is notoriously difficult >if not impossible to TC. They simply cannot get a clean culture on it. >Take for example the cultivar 'Adrian Slack,' a highly sought after, >stunningly beautiful, moorei cross. (just like 'Leah') For over 5 year >they have been unable to get it to TC cleanly, thus no 'AS' on the >market and probably never will be. I found a willing lab and >contracted for a handsome sum to have 'Leah' TCed or at least to try to >TC it. Luck was with me again along with the luck of a very skilled >technician, 'Leah' took the first try with four clean cultures! One >culture has since failed and died. We are not out of the woods yet. >The three remaining cultures have been transferred to growing medium. >They still will need to be transferred to a standard medium and then >onto production. I am told more could die in the transfer from the >growth medium to the standard medium. All I need is one. Production, >I am not even sure what that means or will cost. I will have to find a >company willing to do that and negotiate a contract. Thus far I have >found no takers. So, you see this is not easy. I understand from Dr. >Mellichamp that his series of plants took 15 years to get to market. >Perhaps $75 was not enough? So, why did I do all this? For the fun, >for the thrill, for the fellowship and friendships and, to be able to >say I introduced a cultivar to the world and hopefully to make a >difference in what happens to these plants. > >Thanks again and good growing, > >Brooks Garcia, Atlanta _______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Wed Mar 23 13:06:22 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Leah RE: CPN Well I for one would like a cultivar of Leah but I also am cheep and am willing to wait a few years (or until I get a better paying job). Well Barry I think you opened up a new realm of possiblities for CPN articles. I think most of us probibly thought our Cat adventures or whatever were not worthy to be published in such a magazine. If I find anything of interest (Sarrs) in my adventure next week I will be glad to write it up for CPN. Tre ################### From: kwmartin at earthlink.net (Kirk Martin) Date: Wed Mar 23 13:29:27 2005 Subject: [CP] Cultivar "Leah Wilkerson" Well said Brooks.... Clearly you are obsessed with Sarracenia (but in a good way). I appreciated hearing about Mrs. Wilkerson and her interest in the plant also. My CPN arrived today so will enjoy the photos tonight when I get home. Good growing, Kirk Martin Fitchburg, Mass. ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Wed Mar 23 13:31:49 2005 Subject: [CP] Contributing to CPN and 'Leah Wilkerson' It is one of the reasons that I subscribe to CPN because it is fairly scientific at times, please don't stop publishing these type of articles. We have our own CP newsletter in the UK which has a certain amount of charm about it, but I often find that, for a CP mag, it lack a certain amount of meat at times. Some of us get bored with'I've just killed my VFT, what did I do wrong ?', when this type of question gets repeated over and over. I support the British CP society and go to a lot of their meetings, so I am not really trying to criticise the newsletter, but I do like the American newsletter at times. They compliment each other. On the subject of "Leah Wilkerson", I have got increasingly irritated over the recent years by the increasing number of people getting into the selling of CP's because they see some easy money to be made. We, in the UK, seem to have an awful of 'dealers' turning up at our meetings. In fact we have had a lot more sellers than buyers recently. I wonder if the trend is the same across the pond. $750 for ten plants is a lot of money, anybodies money. If the person isn't making a profit, what are they making ? It is of no concern whatsoever to me if that person is subsidising their CP bogging trips, or even subsidising their efforts to get this plant into TC, those activities should pay for themselves. I will probably have a few S.oreophilla spare from splitting up my plants this Spring. I have just visited Cambridge Botanic Gardens and they will be pleased to accept them into their collection. I am sure that if others thought a bit more about helping out botanical gardens like me, and not about how much they get for for their plants, the World might be a better place. Rant over. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: CMcdon0923 at aol.com (CMcdon0923@aol.com) Date: Wed Mar 23 13:36:21 2005 Subject: [CP] self watering pot good? What about setting up a small mini-bog? (Is that redundant?) At HD they sell whiskey barrels that have been cut in half (real and plastic look-alikes) and liners that fit inside them. Mix youself up a batch of peat/sand, fill the liner, plant your plants, and you've got yourself a little bog. Craig ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Wed Mar 23 16:19:29 2005 Subject: [CP] nother newbie qestion ok, bear with me again, i was wondering with all these people finding new cultivars, wouldent they have run out by now? theres only so many times you can cross breed something before theres nothing else to croos breed with, maybe i dont know what im talking about, but id like this explained to me. thanks, jon, zone 5/6 MA -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: rkoshak at mythsearch.com (Richard L Koshak) Date: Wed Mar 23 19:24:31 2005 Subject: [CP] self watering pot good? By self watering do you mean the kind of pot often used by violet growers? These are usually a glazed outer pot with an inner pot with just the rim glazed. They also often have one or two holes for adding more water. If those are what you are referring to, I have some experience with them. I currently grow two of my oldest neps on this type of pot. I can hear the gasps for the list members because neps don't usually like to sit in water and this type of pot is designed to have the plan sit in water. In any case, these two neps were thriving while I had them in the terrarium. They are not doing as well now as I had to move them because they got too big, but they are still doing quite well. BTW, the neps are a N. x Judith Finn and an unknown hybrid tentatively identified as N alata x maxima (I call them my Lowe's Specials). You can see a picture of my x Judith Finn in this type of pot at http://community.webshots.com/user/rkoshak in the "Carnivorous Plants Spring 2003" album. I also have experience using them outdoors. I had a S. rubra, parrot pitcher, D. filiformus and a couple of VFTs planted in a large one. The plants did just as well in that pot as they did in the other planters. However, there were two problems. It got over crowded in a single season. This could have been avoided if I had just thought a little before planting. The other problem was more serious. The pots will not survive a freeze. The way they work is the inner pot is porous, allowing water to seep through into the soil. Well, this means that the inner pot also retains a certain amount of moisture. After the first freeze, the inner pot crumbled to little pieces. So, if you can insure the pot never freezes, and you don't plant too many per pot (I recommend planting tall Sars like rubra, minor, tarnok, flava, etc. all by themselves, one or two plants per pot or they will take over and kill the smaller plants) these pots seem to work just fine. At least in my experience. Rich >Message: 6 >Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 09:45:16 -0600 >From: "John" >Subject: [CP] self watering pot good? >To: Cp@omnisterra.com >Message-ID: <1111592716.12411.230244448@webmail.messagingengine.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >I came across something at Home Depot yesterday that I wondered if could >be used for CPs. > >It was a pot called a "self watering" pot. > >I live in north Missouri and would like to grow some pitcher plants >outside this summer setting in pots. I rent so cant have a bog. > >Would the self watering pots be a good idea say for S Flava and other >sarrs? ################### From: RL7836 at earthlink.net (Ron Lane) Date: Wed Mar 23 19:48:20 2005 Subject: [CP] CPN Story suggestion Barry recently made a request for new CPN articles (below). I'd like to follow up on that request w/ some specific suggestions/requests/ideas for articles: I would love to see articles on people's travels through CP territory - complete w/ photos / narrative / impressions / etc. Suggestions/ideas: An article on the Green Swamp w/ photos of the VFTs, Drosera and Sarrs would be great (Frank Galloway - are you still out there?) - Appolachicola area w/ the various forms of S. flava, pings, drosera, etc - Road trip through the south from the huge expanses of S. leuco to the stands of S. alata in the pine woods of southern Mississippi to... - California road trip from Darlingtonia sites to Drosera sites to... - Any trip through good habitat in Australia would be great - same for South Africa - same for Tepuis of South America - has CPN ever published D. regia habitat or D. falconeri or D. schizandra? - Jim Miller - why not take a few pieces from your DVD and make it into an article? - Barry - take some of your trip blogs and turn them into an article... - Someone who has photos/experiences from 10 yrs ago - retrace your steps and document the changes... - many others that I'm omitting that would be fantastic Heck - how about a tour of some of these nurseries that many of us have never been able to visit? - California carnivores - Dean Cooks's Nursery - Andreas Wistuba's collections / propagation area - or other big nurseries / collections - Atlanta Botanical Gardens, others... - For a treat - how about a tour of SundewMatt's place - how can he grow all of those plants inside under lights? These are just some thoughts on some articles that I would love to see and possibly to spark some thoughts in others to go ahead and write something up. Then you can say you were 'published'! My apologies in advance to anybody/anything I mentioned or didn't mention - there was no offense intended/implied (actually only admiration). Ron Lane RL7836@earthlink.net To: Message-ID: <200503222017.j2MKHOR7011649@lisbon.ucdavis.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey Folks, I'm looking at our queue of publications lined up for the next couple of issues of CPN, and I'm seeing a predominance of scientific articles and field reports that get some of the more cantankerous members of the ICPS riled up about how CPN is too scientific or whatever. So, I exhort you to think about the CP pursuits you most enjoy, and write articles about them. Merely typing notes to the CP listserve, complaining that other more-productive ICPS members are contributing material that is boring to you is not particularly helpful. So write! ################### From: pham1026 at msn.com (Don Pham) Date: Wed Mar 23 20:18:03 2005 Subject: [CP] CPN Story suggestion Hey, Just to let you know the package came today. I am VERY pleased with the plants, but I didn't know the plants you were sending were so big! I should be able to get your package out soon. Are you interested in Burgendy Trap and Czech Giant? I can toss those two in as well. Both makes red traps of different shades. I might have to send the D. Regia in a different package later as they are VERY tempermental to temp/enviromental changes and the leaves will wilt with slight changes. Is that Ok with you? I will ship it potted too since they don't like root disturbances. BTW- thanks for the two Sarracenia's, I've been looking for a wherryii for a pretty long time! Is all the Sarracenia's you have on the list you sent? If so, I can also send a few spare sarracenia hybrids as well as a Purpurea Purpurea Streeter lake, NY which is pure red. Looking forward for furture trades, Peter >From: Ron Lane >Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group >To: Cp@omnisterra.com >Subject: [CP] CPN Story suggestion >Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:48:06 -0500 > >Barry recently made a request for new CPN articles (below). I'd like to >follow up on that request w/ some specific suggestions/requests/ideas for >articles: > >I would love to see articles on people's travels through CP territory - >complete w/ photos / narrative / impressions / etc. > >Suggestions/ideas: > >An article on the Green Swamp w/ photos of the VFTs, Drosera and Sarrs >would be great (Frank Galloway - are you still out there?) >- Appolachicola area w/ the various forms of S. flava, pings, drosera, etc >- Road trip through the south from the huge expanses of S. leuco to the >stands of S. alata in the pine woods of southern Mississippi to... >- California road trip from Darlingtonia sites to Drosera sites to... >- Any trip through good habitat in Australia would be great - same for >South Africa - same for Tepuis of South America > - has CPN ever published D. regia habitat or D. falconeri or D. >schizandra? >- Jim Miller - why not take a few pieces from your DVD and make it into an >article? >- Barry - take some of your trip blogs and turn them into an article... >- Someone who has photos/experiences from 10 yrs ago - retrace your steps >and document the changes... >- many others that I'm omitting that would be fantastic > >Heck - how about a tour of some of these nurseries that many of us have >never been able to visit? >- California carnivores >- Dean Cooks's Nursery >- Andreas Wistuba's collections / propagation area >- or other big nurseries / collections > - Atlanta Botanical Gardens, others... >- For a treat - how about a tour of SundewMatt's place - how can he grow >all of those plants inside under lights? > >These are just some thoughts on some articles that I would love to see and >possibly to spark some thoughts in others to go ahead and write something >up. Then you can say you were 'published'! > >My apologies in advance to anybody/anything I mentioned or didn't mention - >there was no offense intended/implied (actually only admiration). > >Ron Lane >RL7836@earthlink.net > >Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 12:17:24 -0800 >From: "Barry Rice" >Subject: [CP] Time to contribute to CPN >To: >Message-ID: <200503222017.j2MKHOR7011649@lisbon.ucdavis.edu> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Hey Folks, > >I'm looking at our queue of publications lined up for the next couple of >issues of CPN, and I'm seeing a predominance of scientific articles and >field reports that get some of the more cantankerous members of the ICPS >riled up about how CPN is too scientific or whatever. > >So, I exhort you to think about the CP pursuits you most enjoy, and write >articles about them. Merely typing notes to the CP listserve, complaining >that other more-productive ICPS members are contributing material that is >boring to you is not particularly helpful. So write! > > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Thu Mar 24 07:42:01 2005 Subject: [CP] nother newbie qestion Jon, A cultivar is simply a plant with a unique set of characteristics that set it apart from other plants of the same origin (same species or hybrid). So, any little variation can theoretically be described and registered as a cultivar. If you look at hybrids, even something simple like S.purpurea x flava, there's huge variation in the offspring. Given that hybrids of Sarracenia and Nepenthes are fertile (i.e., they can produce viable offspring when crossed with other plants), and given the large number of other cp species and hybrids, the possibilities for cultivars are virtually endless. Chris >From: "jon mungeam" >Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group >To: Cp@omnisterra.com >Subject: [CP] nother newbie qestion >Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 08:25:13 +0800 > >ok, bear with me again, i was wondering with all these people finding new >cultivars, wouldent they have run out by now? theres only so many times you >can cross breed something before theres nothing else to croos breed with, >maybe i dont know what im talking about, but id like this explained to me. > >thanks, jon, zone 5/6 MA >-- >_______________________________________________ >Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com > >Powered by Outblaze > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: peteluba at prodigy.net (Glenn Petersen) Date: Thu Mar 24 08:59:36 2005 Subject: [CP] No CPN yet I've seen several posts about people getting their CPN around the globe but mine has not arrived. Am I the only one? ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Thu Mar 24 10:09:20 2005 Subject: [CP] No CPN yet I got mine in Brazil about a week ago! :):) Really weird new Heli, huh guys?? Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 1:59 PM > I've seen several posts about people getting their CPN around the globe but mine has not arrived. Am I the only one? > > Staring at the mailbox in nervous anticipation. > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Thu Mar 24 12:32:12 2005 Subject: [CP] CPN ideas Hey Folks (especially Dave Ahrens and Ron Lane), >It is one of the reasons that I subscribe to CPN because it is fairly scientific at times, please >don't stop publishing these type of articles. We have our own CP newsletter in the UK which has a >certain amount of charm I don't think we'll have to worry about CPN's scientific etc articles not appearing any time soon. As long as CPN maintains a high level of accuracy and accountability (which, in itself irritates some of our contributors, I know too well), authors will continue to publish in CPN. I think that, Dave, you won't see those "my VFT died, what do I do?" articles in CPN anymore, though. While those used to appear in CPN a lot, that was from an era when the News and Views section of CPN dominated each issue -- before the internet. The CP listserve and the various chat forums out there have made most of News and Views obsolete. By the way, Ron, some answers to you: > - has CPN ever published D. regia habitat or D. falconeri or D. > schizandra? Yes on all three, but not recently. It would be good to revisit these sites and see if they still exist! > - Barry - take some of your trip blogs and turn them into an > article... My trip reports are really photo intensive. As such, they are not appropriate for CPN where color imagery costs so much. However, I do have several publications in various stages of completion; unfortunately a quandry I have is that for some of these I question how appropriate it is to publish articles in the journal that I help edit? I try to publish in other journals, especially as some of my papers require referees... Later! Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Thu Mar 24 14:29:20 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: CPN Articles and Leah Well David on this side of the pond, at least for my slef the nearest Botanical Garden is 2.5 hours away. I know most people on this list probibly don't even have a BG that close or at least hey don't have CPs. Mine fortunatly has CPs but they only have a 44 gallon bog. They are not interested in Expanding their collection unless you can donate all the supplies also (which for lack of money I can not). They also are not all as well inforemed as ABG, or probibly Kew or other famous CP places. Mine I have had to instruct not to use tapwater and I think they listened. Unfortunatly Not all BGs over here are into all types of plants (As I hear the excellent EU ones are). They are mainly interested in showy plants not CPs, Orchids, or exotics. Most plantings at my local (2.5 hour drive) one is like if you bought a Garden Center (Home Depot) except all the plant were mature. For CPN articles I have one (or several if they did not get combined) on my visits Eglin AFB. I would also be glad to do Appolachicola area w/ the various forms of S. flava, pings, drosera, etc,- Road trip through the south from the huge expanses of S. leuco, Maybe ABG but I think someone nearer their would have ore then only 8 hours experience with their CPs (I unfortunatly only got to study their Nep rooms closly and a few itereting Sarrs). Message: 3 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed It is one of the reasons that I subscribe to CPN because it is fairly scientific at times, please don't stop publishing these type of articles. We have our own CP newsletter in the UK which has a certain amount of charm about it, but I often find that, for a CP mag, it lack a certain amount of meat at times. Some of us get bored with'I've just killed my VFT, what did I do wrong ?', when this type of question gets repeated over and over. I support the British CP society and go to a lot of their meetings, so I am not really trying to criticise the newsletter, but I do like the American newsletter at times. They compliment each other. On the subject of "Leah Wilkerson", I have got increasingly irritated over the recent years by the increasing number of people getting into the selling of CP's because they see some easy money to be made. We, in the UK, seem to have an awful of 'dealers' turning up at our meetings. In fact we have had a lot more sellers than buyers recently. I wonder if the trend is the same across the pond. $750 for ten plants is a lot of money, anybodies money. If the person isn't making a profit, what are they making ? It is of no concern whatsoever to me if that person is subsidising their CP bogging trips, or even subsidising their efforts to get this plant into TC, those activities should pay for themselves. I will probably have a few S.oreophilla spare from splitting up my plants this Spring. I have just visited Cambridge Botanic Gardens and they will be pleased to accept them into their collection. I am sure that if others thought a bit more about helping out botanical gardens like me, and not about how much they get for for their plants, the World might be a better place. Rant over. Regards David Ahrens London. Message: 7 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <42423876.8060403@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Barry recently made a request for new CPN articles (below). I'd like to follow up on that request w/ some specific suggestions/requests/ideas for articles: I would love to see articles on people's travels through CP territory - complete w/ photos / narrative / impressions / etc. Suggestions/ideas: An article on the Green Swamp w/ photos of the VFTs, Drosera and Sarrs would be great (Frank Galloway - are you still out there?) - Appolachicola area w/ the various forms of S. flava, pings, drosera, etc - Road trip through the south from the huge expanses of S. leuco to the stands of S. alata in the pine woods of southern Mississippi to... - California road trip from Darlingtonia sites to Drosera sites to... - Any trip through good habitat in Australia would be great - same for South Africa - same for Tepuis of South America - has CPN ever published D. regia habitat or D. falconeri or D. schizandra? - Jim Miller - why not take a few pieces from your DVD and make it into an article? - Barry - take some of your trip blogs and turn them into an article... - Someone who has photos/experiences from 10 yrs ago - retrace your steps and document the changes... - many others that I'm omitting that would be fantastic Heck - how about a tour of some of these nurseries that many of us have never been able to visit? - California carnivores - Dean Cooks's Nursery - Andreas Wistuba's collections / propagation area - or other big nurseries / collections - Atlanta Botanical Gardens, others... - For a treat - how about a tour of SundewMatt's place - how can he grow all of those plants inside under lights? These are just some thoughts on some articles that I would love to see and possibly to spark some thoughts in others to go ahead and write something up. Then you can say you were 'published'! My apologies in advance to anybody/anything I mentioned or didn't mention - there was no offense intended/implied (actually only admiration). Ron Lane RL7836@earthlink.net ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Thu Mar 24 15:28:01 2005 Subject: [CP] nother newbie qestion thanks, i think i got it now. -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: tvaughan at charter.net (Tim Vaughan) Date: Thu Mar 24 18:02:07 2005 Subject: [CP] Contributing to CPN and 'Leah Wilkerson' "I am sure that if others thought a bit more about helping out botanical gardens like me, and not about how much they get for for their plants, the World might be a better place." ################### From: ClaraVoiAunt at aol.com (ClaraVoiAunt@aol.com) Date: Thu Mar 24 20:55:44 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: CPN Glenn. Mine arrrived the day after I posted that it had not arrived here in Sunny? Sonoma county, the heart of whine country. Lois In a message dated 3/24/2005 12:02:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: Message: 10 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <20050324165929.44726.qmail@web80408.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I've seen several posts about people getting their CPN around the globe but mine has not arrived. Am I the only one? Staring at the mailbox in nervous anticipation. ################### From: john63401 at fastmail.fm (John) Date: Fri Mar 25 06:33:38 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 25 > What about setting up a small mini-bog? (Is that redundant?) At HD they > sell whiskey barrels that have been cut in half (real and plastic > look-alikes) and liners that fit inside them. Thats an idea. Only thing I can think against it is that I may not be able to pick it up and move it around alone if so needed ################### From: john63401 at fastmail.fm (John) Date: Fri Mar 25 06:34:22 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 25 > By self watering do you mean the kind of pot often used by > violet > growers? These are usually a glazed outer pot with an inner pot with > just > the rim glazed. They also often have one or two holes for adding more > water. Yes.... this is the kind of pot Im talking abt ################### From: mtalt at hort.net (Marge Talt) Date: Fri Mar 25 09:28:11 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: half barrels for mini bogs was: Cp Digest, Vol 22, > From: John > > What about setting up a small mini-bog? (Is that redundant?) At HD they > > sell whiskey barrels that have been cut in half (real and plastic > > look-alikes) and liners that fit inside them. > Thats an idea. Only thing I can think against it is that I may not be > able to pick it up and move it around alone if so needed ---------- FWIW, I have a couple of half barrels with soil and plants in them; primarily for growing lilies so the voles don't get them...put heavy duty castors on the bottom so I can roll them around, which works fine on a solid, flat surface. I can move them by myself....not very large female of somewhat advancing years... You'd need to line them with PVC or rubber so they'd hold moisture and not rot really fast. My unlined ones with soil lasted nearly 15 years before serious rot set in and they had to be replaced. Marge Talt, zone 7 Maryland mtalt@hort.net Editor: Gardening in Shade Shadyside Garden Designs ----------------------------------------------- Current Article: Until April 11 http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/shade_gardening ------------------------------------------------ Complete Index of Articles by Category and Date http://mtalt.hort.net/article-index.html ################### From: ksanders at clas.ufl.edu (Keith Sanders) Date: Fri Mar 25 09:34:42 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: half barrels for mini bogs was: Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue Several people have also mentioned filling the barrel half full of styrofoam shipping peanuts to make it much lighter. Marge Talt wrote: >>From: John >> >>>What about setting up a small mini-bog? (Is that redundant?) At > > HD they > >>>sell whiskey barrels that have been cut in half (real and plastic >>>look-alikes) and liners that fit inside them. >> >>Thats an idea. Only thing I can think against it is that I may not > > be > >>able to pick it up and move it around alone if so needed > > ---------- > > FWIW, I have a couple of half barrels with soil and plants in them; > primarily for growing lilies so the voles don't get them...put heavy > duty castors on the bottom so I can roll them around, which works > fine on a solid, flat surface. I can move them by myself....not very > large female of somewhat advancing years... > > You'd need to line them with PVC or rubber so they'd hold moisture > and not rot really fast. My unlined ones with soil lasted nearly 15 > years before serious rot set in and they had to be replaced. > > Marge Talt, zone 7 Maryland > mtalt@hort.net > Editor: Gardening in Shade > Shadyside Garden Designs > ----------------------------------------------- > Current Article: Until April 11 > http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/shade_gardening > ------------------------------------------------ > Complete Index of Articles by Category and Date > http://mtalt.hort.net/article-index.html > ################### From: willows30 at alltel.net (James A. Rollins) Date: Fri Mar 25 12:40:23 2005 Subject: [CP] CPN ################### From: astrocv at yahoo.com (Albert Maize) Date: Fri Mar 25 14:03:39 2005 Subject: [CP] CPN I think that keeping the mix of CPN articles that are scientific and general knowledge will appeal to a larger readership. Another CP distribution would be lovely. AM __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Fri Mar 25 15:19:42 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: half barrels for mini bogs was: Cp Digest, Vol 22, there are also dollies for barrels and large planters, such as this: http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&did=10&product_id=574 about styrofoam: am i the only one concerned about how this material degrades? does anyone know if toxins are released? what effect does highly acidic soil and water have on it? i reuse it for packing or give it to local postal shipping businesses (who are happy to have it), since it's already in the environment and remains virtually good as new. i also encourage everyone else to just reuse, so there isn't a need to produce more of this stuff. but reusing for potting mix... is that safe? also, if you do use styrofoam peanuts, be sure **not** to use the cellulose/starch type which will just turn into a pile of sludge. Gary Kong Keith Sanders wrote: > >Several people have also mentioned filling the barrel half full of >styrofoam shipping peanuts to make it much lighter. > > >Marge Talt wrote: > >>>From: John >>> >>>>What about setting up a small mini-bog? (Is that redundant?) At >> >> HD they >> >>>>sell whiskey barrels that have been cut in half (real and plastic >>>>look-alikes) and liners that fit inside them. >>> >>>Thats an idea. Only thing I can think against it is that I may not >> >> be >> >>>able to pick it up and move it around alone if so needed >> >> ---------- >> >> FWIW, I have a couple of half barrels with soil and plants in them; >> primarily for growing lilies so the voles don't get them...put heavy >> duty castors on the bottom so I can roll them around, which works >> fine on a solid, flat surface. I can move them by myself....not very >> large female of somewhat advancing years... >> >> You'd need to line them with PVC or rubber so they'd hold moisture >> and not rot really fast. My unlined ones with soil lasted nearly 15 >> years before serious rot set in and they had to be replaced. >> >> Marge Talt, zone 7 Maryland >> mtalt@hort.net >> Editor: Gardening in Shade >> Shadyside Garden Designs >> ----------------------------------------------- >> Current Article: Until April 11 >> http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/shade_gardening >> ------------------------------------------------ >> Complete Index of Articles by Category and Date >> http://mtalt.hort.net/article-index.html >> > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: barry_burch at excite.com (Barry Burch) Date: Fri Mar 25 17:49:23 2005 Subject: [CP] 'Leah Wilkerson' I fail to see the merit of the complainers in this previous threads.

I think that if you knew Brooks, you would clearly understand that he is not concerned with "profits".

Brooks has GIVEN me many plants that would have easily cost me hundreds of dollars. He even GAVE me some seedlings and seeds
that are the open field crosses of wild 'Leah Wilkerson'.

He would not even accept even postage for the many seeds, plants and seedlings that he has sent to me, over the past several years.

Is this the way a man that is only concerned with "profits" is supposed to act?

If the previous whinnies will take notice - Brooks was one of the
people that were involved in saving the last plants from the Crestview site. These plants were sent to many
individuals...for the cost of postage. Is this the way a man
only concerned with "profits" should conduct his business?

If I were a thinking of being a stockholder in "Brooks' CP INC."
I would not own stock in his company. He clearly does not know
how to run a CP business! Especially, one for "profits".

Brooks has found an exceptional Sarracenia that is worthy of
cultivar status. If he ever decides to sell them for "profits" -
that is one of the strenghts of choice in buying. If you do not
like the product...do not buy it.

Many people post pictures of wonderful plants and have no
intention of ever sharing them with anyone. Brooks, not only found a unique genetic stand of CP; he is in the process of going through much time and labor to share them with all of us.
Not to mention the costs of launching this plant into TC.

If he has to raise some money to do this - so be it. No one else
made this effort for 'Leah', but Brooks.

It seems that many people sit back and do nothing, but complain.
The complaints are usually directed at those that are doing
something. The complainers are the ones that do just that - complain.

Thanks for all your efforts to share 'Leah Wilkerson' with us all, Brooks.
Barry _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Fri Mar 25 18:10:15 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: half barrels for mini bogs was: Cp Digest, Vol 22, Gary, > >about styrofoam: am i the only one concerned about how this material >degrades? does anyone know if toxins are released? what effect does >highly acidic soil and water have on it? i reuse it for packing or give it >to local postal shipping businesses (who are happy to have it), since it's >already in the environment and remains virtually good as new. i also >encourage everyone else to just reuse, so there isn't a need to produce >more of this stuff. but reusing for potting mix... is that safe? > The coloured ones do release dyes which can be harmful to plants, but the plain white ones are pretty much indestructible. I know one grower who uses them in the bottom of all of his cp pots for virtually every variety of cp. Has for years. He's lost plants due to lots of different reasons, but never because of the styrofoam peanuts. >also, if you do use styrofoam peanuts, be sure **not** to use the >cellulose/starch type which will just turn into a pile of sludge. > Good point. Although these ones are probably preferable for overall shipping purposes as they are more environmentally friendly. Cheers! Chris ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Sat Mar 26 01:42:59 2005 Subject: [CP] Donating plants to botanical garden. To Tre and Tim. I wasn't suggesting that we suddenly all got philanthropy in our heads, and marched off all our spare plants to the local botanical garden. It's just that we, in our meetings in the UK, have had an awful lot of 'dealers' turn up at meetings. They charge nursery prices and most of them pay no income tax or VAT (Value Added Tax- a purchase tax that we have in Europe). Most of the venues, we are allowed to use for nothing, even though it costs the university or whoever else, to open the building for us. These people don't make a contribution to those costs. Because they are not run as businesses, their profit margin on plants is much higher than CP nurseries. I suppose that market forces should operate under these conditions, driving prices down, but it doesn't seem to work that way at these meetings. There are some people selling plants at reasonable prices, which is in the spirit of the Society. I am not, unlike some people, moaning about bonafide nurseries prices, they have a living to be made, and margins are tight in the CP trade. Most CP nurseries don't make fortunes, this has been discussed before. The fact that Brooke's (have I spelt that right ?) plants all sold so quickly, probably meant that the price was about right, so good luck to him if he can sell at that price. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: astrocv at yahoo.com (Albert Maize) Date: Sat Mar 26 02:32:03 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Contributing to CPN and 'Leah WIlkerson' Quote David Ahrens: "10 plants at $75 each, hmm, does the taxman know about you?" Quote David Ahrens: "I will probably have a few S. oreophilla(sic) spare from splitting up my plants this Spring. I have visited Cambridge Botanic Gardens and they will be pleased to accept them into their collection." Last time I checked, S. oreophila was only found in within a small geographical area in the United States. Hmm, I wonder - does the CITES Man know about YOU? AM __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ################### From: smaietta at aabga.org (AABGA) Date: Sat Mar 26 12:03:21 2005 Subject: [CP] Thank you for contacting AABGA. I will be out of the office Thank you for contacting AABGA. I will be out of the office until Wednesday, March 30th. If you need immediate assistance please contact the AABGA offices at 302-655-7100 and press extension 10. Have a wonderful day! Sarah Sarah Maietta Office Manager AABGA 100 West 10th Street Suite 614 Wilmington, DE 19801 302-655-7100 x11 302-655-8100 fax ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Sat Mar 26 13:14:49 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Contributing to CPN and 'Leah WIlkerson' Albert, >Quote David Ahrens: "10 plants at $75 each, hmm, does >the taxman know about you?" > >Quote David Ahrens: "I will probably have a few S. >oreophilla(sic) spare from splitting up my plants this >Spring. I have visited Cambridge Botanic Gardens and >they will be pleased to accept them into their >collection." > >Last time I checked, S. oreophila was only found in >within a small geographical area in the United States. > >Hmm, I wonder - does the CITES Man know about YOU? > >AM > Hmm, last time I checked, CITES stood for Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora. Nothing illegal (under CITES regulations) with David donating to an organization within his own country. Chris ################### From: jim_miller at mindspring.com (Jim Miller) Date: Sat Mar 26 14:37:34 2005 Subject: [CP] 'Leah Wilkerson' >Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 20:49:07 -0500 (EST) >From: "Barry Burch" >Subject: [CP] 'Leah Wilkerson' >To: Cp@omnisterra.com > >I fail to see the merit of the complainers in this previous >threads.

I think that if you knew Brooks, you would clearly >understand that he is not concerned with "profits".

Brooks >has GIVEN me many plants that would have easily cost me hundreds of >dollars. He even GAVE me some seedlings and seeds
that are the >open field crosses of wild 'Leah Wilkerson'.

He would not >even accept even postage for the many seeds, plants and seedlings >that he has sent to me, over the past several years.

Is this >the way a man that is only concerned with "profits" is supposed to >act? Thank you, Barry! Your defense of the man saves me the trouble. How many people out there got the Sarracenia rubra gulfensis plants from Brooks that we rescued from the Crestview site (with full permission of the owner, of course)? Brooks handled everything -- digging them up, packaging them, mailing them. It's people like Brooks that make this "hobby" a pleasure. I am proud to say he is a friend. And more than that, he always, always gives more than he gets. His generosity is actually quite humbling. To even suggest that the man will somehow see a profit from selling ten plants is ludicrous. Some of you need to check out what goes on in the orchid world! Talk about expensive! Ouch!! So thank you, Brooks! Thank you for giving ten very lucky people the opportunity to grow such a beautiful plant, one that we have both stood and admired in the field (the very few that still can be found these days). Geez, I sure hope you are not off buying a private jet with all your profits. Now how would that look? Best regards to all those who truly make this hobby -- err, obsession -- such a joy! Jim ################### From: killerplants at aol.com (killerplants@aol.com) Date: Sat Mar 26 14:37:54 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: I'm lost on this one. Isn't it legal to give specimens of S. oreophila, especially if they are from seed-raised specimens over seas? Cheers, Joe Griffin Lincoln, NE USA -----Original Message----- the taxman know about you?" Quote David Ahrens: "I will probably have a few S. oreophilla(sic) spare from splitting up my plants this Spring. I have visited Cambridge Botanic Gardens and they will be pleased to accept them into their collection." Last time I checked, S. oreophila was only found in within a small geographical area in the United States. Hmm, I wonder - does the CITES Man know about YOU? ################### From: killerplants at aol.com (killerplants@aol.com) Date: Sat Mar 26 17:38:00 2005 Subject: [CP] cps in Houston Hi All, I am in Houston until Wednesday. What cp related things can I see(besides Big Thicket, which would be great if I can get there)? Any nice collections locally? Cheers, ################### From: madmage1 at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?M=E1rio=20Valente?=) Date: Sun Mar 27 01:12:24 2005 Subject: [CP] good sense As in everything inlife one must exert good sense. I feel people sometimes get over-zelous about CITES when it comes to send plants (or seed) from the US to other countries (e.g. S.oreophylla) but concerning the import to the US I have never had any problem whatsoever. Obviously I'm not against CITES's principles but should nobody in the whole world grow S.oreophylla unless living in the US. It seems D.Ahrens is doing a good job propagating the plant and is even willing to give some to the botanical garden of his choice, more, I dare say, than many CITES purists. Good sense is what's needed. Greetings to all. M?rio Valente (Portugal) ################### From: cp at pwilson.demon.co.uk (Phil Wilson) Date: Sun Mar 27 01:31:07 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: > I'm lost on this one. Isn't it legal to give specimens of S. oreophila, > especially if they are from seed-raised specimens over seas? > Joe, It certainly is here in England at least. In fact within the entire EU there are no restrictions on the trade of any carnivorous plants whatsoever, so we can buy sell give away or do whatever we like with our S. oreophila. :-) Regards, Phil Wilson ################### From: smaietta at aabga.org (AABGA) Date: Sun Mar 27 12:02:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Thank you for contacting AABGA. I will be out of the office Thank you for contacting AABGA. I will be out of the office until Wednesday, March 30th. If you need immediate assistance please contact the AABGA offices at 302-655-7100 and press extension 10. Have a wonderful day! Sarah Sarah Maietta Office Manager AABGA 100 West 10th Street Suite 614 Wilmington, DE 19801 302-655-7100 x11 302-655-8100 fax ################### From: mmilstein at msn.com (Michael Milstein) Date: Sun Mar 27 14:19:15 2005 Subject: [CP] 'Leah Wilkerson' and $ return I'm quite convinced that there is not a lot of money to be made in marketing 'Leah Wilkerson' and other plants, but even if there were, wouldn't that be a good thing for conservation of those plants? Habitat is being rapidly lost because its conservation cannot compete in terms of generating revenue with developing land for malls or housing developments or whatever else. Certainly the limited sales of most plants is not going to change that equation dramatically, but if someone who has protected habitat for whatever reason can ultimately realize some revenue from people who benefit from that protection, such as CP enthusiasts intrigued by a new hybrid, I cannot see that as anything but positive. I'm certainly not arguing that conservation should be entirely revenue driven, but if there's some potential for conservation to produce some financial return, people will have that much more incentive to support it. Yellowstone National Park was protected long before people knew much about bacteria, but it turned out microbes from its hot springs made DNA fingerprinting possible and now are the subject of patents worth millions of dollars. Obviously Mrs. Wilkerson did not protect her bog for so many decades because she anticipated a profit from it, but we're all richer because she did. If there ultimately is some unanticipated reward for her and other landowners willing to do the same thing, even a token amount of revenue or simply the enthusiasm and thanks of those of us who enjoy these plants, I would think it would only help the cause. Seems to me that Brooks is going out of his way to create a vehicle for this kind of reward, and we all should thank him for his efforts. ################### From: Satyrnik at aol.com (Satyrnik@aol.com) Date: Sun Mar 27 14:57:28 2005 Subject: [CP] Sarracenia Cultivar parentage... Help? ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (rrz7001@humboldt.edu) Date: Sun Mar 27 15:24:44 2005 Subject: [CP] Sarracenia Cultivar parentage... Help? AFAIK. none of those names are registered cultivar names. Here is what I have found and posted in the CP Photo Finder http://www.humboldt.edu/~rrz7001/Sarracenia.html Sarracenia "Bog Witch" ?? Sarracenia "Flies Demise" [rubra wherryi*purpurea*rubra] Sarracenia "Mardi Gras" [(leucophylla*purpurea)*(leucophylla*psittacina)] -Bob- > Can anyone help me with finding out the parentage of the following > Sarracenia cultivars: > Bog Witch > Flies Demise > Mardi Gras > THANKS!! > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: rklelaphe1 at verizon.net (resorqcr@verizon.net) Date: Sun Mar 27 16:36:07 2005 Subject: [CP] CP's at USF Botanical Garden Sale The University of South Florida's Botanical Garden spring sale is coming up early in April. I know some on the list are vendors who typically attend - anyone going to be there & what do you expect to have for sale? ################### From: archeothom at yahoo.com (Thomas Pickering) Date: Sun Mar 27 18:21:14 2005 Subject: [CP] cps in Houston Hey Joe, The Jesse H. Jones Park & Nature Center has a native canivorous plant exhibit. It is located just north of Houston. Tom --- killerplants@aol.com wrote: > > > Hi All, > > I am in Houston until Wednesday. What cp related > things can I see(besides Big Thicket, which would be > great if I can get there)? > Any nice collections locally? > > Cheers, > > Joe Griffin > Lincoln, NE USA > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Mon Mar 28 04:03:23 2005 Subject: [CP] $75 Sarries and Taxmen Some people really ought to relax a bit. My dig about the taxman and Brookes's plants was really said a bit 'tongue in cheek', and it was meant to have a bit of humour about it. I only said that $75 was a lot to me. He could have charged $500 each for all I care. It's just that you would be mad if the plant caught grey mould during the winter at that price. At the end of the day, all the plants sold, so what's the problem ? It's the start of the CP growing season, so off we go again. I knew that I was a saying a few things that might court angry answers, but I felt that not very much was happening on the listserv, and I would liven things up a bit. I am a bit of a devil like that, as many people will know. I've got my VAT to finish off today, yes, the VATman does know about me ! Our season, here in the UK, kicks off with the AGM on the 23rd April at Wisley. Wisley is the headquarters of the Royal Horticultural Society, the RHS organises Chelsea Flower Show. We have lots of meeting throughout the UK during the year. We are lucky in some ways because the UK is smaller than California, so we can all drive to most meetings. There are some folk who live in Scotland, and for them, meetings are not so easy. Happy growing for the year ahead. David Ahrens London. ################### From: jcreef at bellsouth.net (Juan-Carlos) Date: Mon Mar 28 05:46:37 2005 Subject: [CP] $75 Sarries and Taxmen I honestly don't get what the big fuss is?? Its really not that expensive at all, In the marine reefing hobby we pay up to $3000.00 for a small 3" head of Acanthastrea lordhowensis coral. In the CP hobby people seems to want every plant for $20 ... My opinion is if you cant afford it, (which I certainly cant at the moment) many of us cant, but why all the comments? just keep them unheard and be happy for those who where able to afford them and are now enjoying a great plant! Sheesh, Enjoy the hobby and don't flame others -Jc ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 7:03 AM > Some people really ought to relax a bit. > My dig about the taxman and Brookes's plants was really said a bit 'tongue > in cheek', and it was meant to have a bit of humour about it. > I only said that $75 was a lot to me. He could have charged $500 each for > all I care. It's just that you would be mad if the plant caught grey mould > during the winter at that price. > At the end of the day, all the plants sold, so what's the problem ? > > It's the start of the CP growing season, so off we go again. I knew that I > was a saying a few things that might court angry answers, but I felt that > not very much was happening on the listserv, and I would liven things up a > bit. I am a bit of a devil like that, as many people will know. > I've got my VAT to finish off today, yes, the VATman does know about me ! > Our season, here in the UK, kicks off with the AGM on the 23rd April at > Wisley. Wisley is the headquarters of the Royal Horticultural Society, the > RHS organises Chelsea Flower Show. > We have lots of meeting throughout the UK during the year. We are lucky in > some ways because the UK is smaller than California, so we can all drive > to most meetings. There are some folk who live in Scotland, and for them, > meetings are not so easy. > Happy growing for the year ahead. > David Ahrens > London. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: philmann at geo.net.au (Phill Mann) Date: Mon Mar 28 06:41:09 2005 Subject: [CP] Sign that you might be a CP nut. These "quotes" were sent to me by a good friend Rich Sivertsen. Many of those originals CPer's still remaining with us will remember Rich and his contributions to the very beginning of CPN. I had this strange feeling that just about every second one reminded me of Barry !!!!!!!! funny how that seems seeing I've never met the man! Cheers Phill Mann www.scarnivores.com www.cepahalotus.net Signs that you might be a "Carnivorous Plant Nut" You have more pictures of carnivorous plants than members of your own family. You know more plants by their scientific name than by their common name. Your idea of having a "wet dream" involves being waist deep in an exotic new bog. You slam on the brakes while driving 65 MPH because you thought you saw a bog within walking distance of the road. You rent a boat in a well known fishing lake, and don't even have a fishing pole. You can cite the dates of acquisition, the precise locales, within GPS accuracy, of their exact location of origin, and the scientific details of each plant that you have in your collection, but can't remember your own anniversary, nor the birthdays of your own spouse, and other family members. (Ouch!) You can't read the newspaper without your reading glasses, but can spot a new pitcher plant hybrid variant at 100 yards (100 M), at dusk, doing 65 MPH, out the corner of your eye without your glasses. You car contains boots, chest waders, inflatable boats, oars, zip-lock plastic bags and containers, waterproof labels, compasses and maps of uninhabited areas, but you have to look for the legal paperwork when stopped by police, or the emergency equipment required to repair a flat tire. Your car gets stuck in the deep swamp mud, and you ask the rescue team to bring you deeper into the bog before pulling you out. You can't afford to have "that operation", but have recently returned from another trip to Borneo You consider naming your children after some of your favourite plants. You've been in a heated debate over the correct pronunciation of a plant. You get lost in a big city mass transit system, but know every detail of a 100 sq. mile forest. Your "dream vacation" and honeymoon includes visits to bogs and swamps. The first order of business when arriving at a new city is to locate the nearest CP bogs. You arrive in New York City for the first time in your life, and when you get to the car rental place, you study a map to chart how long it would take to get to the New Jersey Pine Barrens. You climb out of a heavily wooded area, dehydrated, arms hands and face swollen with bug bites and stings, nettles and poison ivy, legs bleeding from climbing through a dense thorny thicket, missing one of your favourite shoes, or boots in the muck, missing your expensive sunglasses, reeking with swamp muck on your torn clothes, after hours of near and total exhaustion, but you're happy and having a great and wonderful day because you just found a new plant that you had never found before. You've been mistaken for having a religious experience, "speaking in tongues", or an epileptic seizure while describing your last visit to a bog. Tow trucks have stopped near your car and asked if you need a tow when you come out of the woods. Other drivers stop and ask if you need directions. You buy a house with primary consideration to its proximity to a good CP site instead of the quality of the school district. People claim to have snapped their fingers in your face without you even blinking when you discover a new CP site. You have taken your dates to bogs and swamps. You have bowed and prayed while facing Borneo. You have a greenhouse with every pane of glass in good condition, but have reinforced packing tape on a cracked window in your living room. Your greenhouse is warmer in mid-winter than your living room. You have redwood and cedar baskets for your plants, but eat out of old plastic Cool-Whip bowls. You sterilize old pots and potting mixes, but use your t-shirt to wipe off a spoon when it falls on the floor during dinner, and continue to finish your soup with it. There is dried sphagnum in your car. You have at least three CP buddies on speed dial, but have to search for the phone number of your kid's pediatrician. You know the difference between New Zealand, Chilean, and Michigan sphagnum. You get a small piece of a dried peat pot in your mouth, and before spitting it out, you sit down, cross your legs, caress it across your pallet, look upward, and mutter softly: "German, ... mountain, ... 1986, a very good year, low in boronic ion content, . pH 5.2, not too acidic . full bodied, ..." ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Mon Mar 28 08:53:25 2005 Subject: [CP] CITES within the EU Hey Phil, As folks have noticed in the listserve, CITES regulations apply to listed plants crossing borders (whether for sale, or as a gift). Anyway, is it true that in international trade within the EU, CITES restrictions do not apply? I didn't know this. Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Director of Conservation Programs The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org > Message: 7 > From: "Phil Wilson" > > It certainly is here in England at least. In fact within the > entire EU there > are no restrictions on the trade of any carnivorous plants > whatsoever, so we > can buy sell give away or do whatever we like with our S. > oreophila. :-) > > Regards, > > Phil Wilson ################### From: peteluba at prodigy.net (Glenn Petersen) Date: Mon Mar 28 09:04:57 2005 Subject: [CP] Where is my CPN? Still no CPN, panic has set in. Now when I look at the mailbox, tears well up in my eyes. Ok I may be exagerating a little but I'm bunmmed! I will have to check my last issue and see if there is an official e-mail address I can use to beg for a back issue. Barry if you read this, are you that person? I will also check the ICPS website. The problem with that is there in full color is the cover of my missing CPN...here come those tears again. I say keep the scientific articles coming. Since I am not an academic, it is the only source of I have for getting that kind of info without spending hours at the library. There are plenty of good non academic things on line. I wouldn't mind if it developed into a full blown academic journel as long as it was exclusivly on CPs. ################### From: MHowlett at hcp4.net (Howlett, Mike) Date: Mon Mar 28 10:13:58 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 28 Man, I guess winter isn't over in many places yet...all this complaining about 'who has what and why aren't they sharing it for free or selling it for less?' is really quite ridiculous. Aren't your plants coming out of dormancy yet? Don't you have anything better to do? Brooks made it perfectly clear that he was selling a few plants trying to recoup some of the costs involved in getting this cultivar established into TC, and I have no problem with that. I have no idea what it costs to get a TC lab to work on introducing a new plant, but if it can be done for what Brooks generates from selling ten plants, I'm amazed that we aren't overrun with hundreds of 'Sarracenia x 'ihaveitandyoudontensis' cultivars... I was one of the lucky recipients of some of the rubra and even leucophylla plants from the Crestview site. How many of the whiners out there are doing anything similar? I don't recall Brooks asking for "shipping, packaging, gas money and a little for my efforts." All he asked for was the costs of shipping the plants! Mine are doing very well, BTW, and I look forward to being able to use them as display plants this year during my CP programs. I applaud Brooks for his efforts, his generosity and his desire to spread the word - and the plants - when it comes to this addiction we call 'Cp-aholics Anonymous.' I have a side business, and yes I do sell some CPs. Almost ALL of what I sell are the more common varieties that I strictly purchase from a lab, repot and upcharge. I also raise much smaller numbers of other CPs, and these are usually given away to other CP enthusiasts. I give away a lot more plants than I ever sell. I'll be giving away scores of plants at my beginner CP lecture in May and even more to be used in 'jar terraria' during our summer camps all summer long. But if it weren't for a few individuals who are much more involved than me, none of us would have access to many of these intriguing new clones. Brooks, thanks for all you do to help educate people and to conserve a resource that we all love! To those who are complaining about the cost of these ten plants, go check your own; I think I heard a mealybug crawling on one while you were whining...LOL! Mike Howlett Naturalist, Herpetoculturist & Carnivorous Plant Enthusiast Jesse H. Jones Park & Nature Center 20634 Kenswick Drive Humble, TX 77338 281-446-8588 mhowlett@hcp4.net www.hcp4.net/jones -----Original Message----- Message: 3 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 20:49:07 -0500 (EST) >From: "Barry Burch" >Subject: [CP] 'Leah Wilkerson' >To: Cp@omnisterra.com > >I fail to see the merit of the complainers in this previous >threads.

I think that if you knew Brooks, you would clearly >understand that he is not concerned with "profits".

Brooks has >GIVEN me many plants that would have easily cost me hundreds of >dollars. He even GAVE me some seedlings and seeds
that are the open >field crosses of wild 'Leah Wilkerson'.

He would not even accept >even postage for the many seeds, plants and seedlings that he has sent >to me, over the past several years.

Is this the way a man that >is only concerned with "profits" is supposed to act? Thank you, Barry! Your defense of the man saves me the trouble. How many people out there got the Sarracenia rubra gulfensis plants from Brooks that we rescued from the Crestview site (with full permission of the owner, of course)? Brooks handled everything -- digging them up, packaging them, mailing them. It's people like Brooks that make this "hobby" a pleasure. I am proud to say he is a friend. And more than that, he always, always gives more than he gets. His generosity is actually quite humbling. To even suggest that the man will somehow see a profit from selling ten plants is ludicrous. Some of you need to check out what goes on in the orchid world! Talk about expensive! Ouch!! So thank you, Brooks! Thank you for giving ten very lucky people the opportunity to grow such a beautiful plant, one that we have both stood and admired in the field (the very few that still can be found these days). Geez, I sure hope you are not off buying a private jet with all your profits. Now how would that look? Best regards to all those who truly make this hobby -- err, obsession -- such a joy! Jim ################### From: cp at pwilson.demon.co.uk (Phil Wilson) Date: Mon Mar 28 10:28:08 2005 Subject: [CP] CITES within the EU Barry, As far as I am aware the EU is considered to be a single market with no internal borders so CITES regulations do not apply. The UK CITEs website (http://www.ukcites.gov.uk) may cast some light on this matter, though I doubt it. :-) Phil > As folks have noticed in the listserve, CITES regulations apply to listed > plants crossing borders (whether for sale, or as a gift). Anyway, is it > true > that in international trade within the EU, CITES restrictions do not > apply? > I didn't know this. > > Barry > > Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. > Director of Conservation Programs > The International Carnivorous Plant Society > http://www.carnivorousplants.org > >> Message: 7 >> From: "Phil Wilson" >> >> It certainly is here in England at least. In fact within the >> entire EU there >> are no restrictions on the trade of any carnivorous plants >> whatsoever, so we >> can buy sell give away or do whatever we like with our S. >> oreophila. :-) >> >> Regards, >> >> Phil Wilson > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: smaietta at aabga.org (AABGA) Date: Mon Mar 28 12:04:22 2005 Subject: [CP] Thank you for contacting AABGA. I will be out of the office Thank you for contacting AABGA. I will be out of the office until Wednesday, March 30th. If you need immediate assistance please contact the AABGA offices at 302-655-7100 and press extension 10. Have a wonderful day! Sarah Sarah Maietta Office Manager AABGA 100 West 10th Street Suite 614 Wilmington, DE 19801 302-655-7100 x11 302-655-8100 fax ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Mon Mar 28 12:31:36 2005 Subject: [CP] Signs of carnivorous plant mania Hey Phill, > I had this strange feeling that just about every second one > reminded me of Barry !!!!!!!! funny how that seems seeing > I've never met the man! > Signs that you might be a "Carnivorous Plant Nut" I'm sure I don't know what you're talking about. By the way, I'm getting ready for a trip to New Orleans with my wife. AND WE'RE HARDLY TAKING OFF ANY TIME TO SEE CARNIVOROUS PLANTS ON THIS TRIP! Just music, food, and other New Orleans sites. Oh, and we'll stop off at two bogs in Louisiana. Also, a carnivorous plant lake site I know of. Oh, and of course the Sarracenia alata fields in southern Mississippi. Oh, and how can we skip some of the bogs in southwestern Alabama while we're in the area? But other than that, we'll be focusing all our time on New Orleans. And a couple of cypress swamps to the south where there should be some good aquatic Utricularia habitats. So I rebuff your claims that I'm a carnivorous plant nut. Barry ################### From: Satyrnik at aol.com (Satyrnik@aol.com) Date: Mon Mar 28 12:43:42 2005 Subject: [CP] Sarracenia Cultivar parentage... Help? ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Mon Mar 28 14:06:43 2005 Subject: [CP] $75 Sarries and Taxmen an accountant friend of mine once told me the only time the (US) feds care about unreported income is when you deposit or cash checks **over** $300, and in quantity. and that's only if you get audited. just an FYI and not meant as advice to the unscrupulous. although, i really have no control over how you use this information. ;) Gary Kong "David Ahrens" wrote: >Some people really ought to relax a bit. >My dig about the taxman and Brookes's plants was really said a bit 'tongue >in cheek', and it was meant to have a bit of humour about it. >I only said that $75 was a lot to me. He could have charged $500 each for >all I care. It's just that you would be mad if the plant caught grey mould >during the winter at that price. >At the end of the day, all the plants sold, so what's the problem ? > >It's the start of the CP growing season, so off we go again. I knew that I >was a saying a few things that might court angry answers, but I felt that >not very much was happening on the listserv, and I would liven things up a >bit. I am a bit of a devil like that, as many people will know. >I've got my VAT to finish off today, yes, the VATman does know about me ! >Our season, here in the UK, kicks off with the AGM on the 23rd April at >Wisley. Wisley is the headquarters of the Royal Horticultural Society, the >RHS organises Chelsea Flower Show. >We have lots of meeting throughout the UK during the year. We are lucky in >some ways because the UK is smaller than California, so we can all drive to >most meetings. There are some folk who live in Scotland, and for them, >meetings are not so easy. >Happy growing for the year ahead. >David Ahrens >London. > > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: CANDILUBBEN at peoplepc.com (chris lubben) Date: Mon Mar 28 15:03:56 2005 Subject: [CP] Illinois CPers Is there anybody out there ? Would be nice to find locals in east central illinois or vicinity for trade or general crummy illinois weather discussions. I plan to start a bog with old kids swimming pool this spring. Wife says it's a water feature but I'm building so we'll see what it turns into! Any ideas and pitfalls would be great. Most likely I'd sink a large pot somwhere just beside and direct a portion of the flow into the pot. Are there any cons to the mosquito insecticide floating disks that might harm my plants ? ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Mon Mar 28 15:45:25 2005 Subject: [CP] sundew question Dear Harry, _Drosera slackii_ is a highland plant. Like some other highlanders, it is very slow to grow to a decent size. Something like three years from a leaf or root cutting. About the same time frame from seed as well. The root cutting method does seem to produce a plant more quickly than via leaves. They do not like heat at all. If you can keep the plant cool all year, you will have good solid growth and the plant will have an amazing red/bronze color when happy. My plants of _D. slackii_ are three year old and are not even half the size of Peter D'Amato's: http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~dpevans/D_slackii.htm Perhaps if they didn't get ill from heat every August, they would be as large. See the side-shoot on the bottom left plant? That's probably taken a year to grow. Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of Harry Pulley Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 8:08 AM To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > all of my sundews have produced 'pups' from the roots or have a clumping habit, including D. rotundifolia, all the binatas, D. regia, D. adelae, D. capensis, D. tokaiensis, D. filiformis, D. aliciae, D. intermedia, all hybrids of D. capillaris. D. peltata forms daughter tubers and the sterile form of D. x "Nagamotoi" died back and resumed growth from the roots. What I'm getting at, is that it's probably the rare sundew that doesn't have roots or stems that don't produce offshoots. > > Gary Kong How would you rank them in terms of ease of off-shooting and clumping? Which ones propagate the fastest, and which the slowest? I was just saying the adelae and prolifera seem to go like wild compared to e.g. binata and slackii. D. binata as a plant grows really well but doesn't seem to create offshoots as fast. D. slackii perhaps I am not growing under the right conditions as it seems to grow slowly AND doesn't propagate well. Harry ################### From: rlkoester1 at earthlink.net (Lisa Koester) Date: Mon Mar 28 16:17:58 2005 Subject: [CP] Illinois CPers Hi Chris, Lisa, from dreary Chicago here.... We've killed just about all our CPs save for a couple of nepenthes.... but we're up for weather convo! :-) Lisa Is there anybody out there ? Would be nice to find locals in east central illinois or vicinity for trade or general crummy illinois weather discussions. I plan to start a bog with old kids swimming pool this spring. Wife says it's a water feature but I'm building so we'll see what it turns into! Any ideas and pitfalls would be great. Most likely I'd sink a large pot somwhere just beside and direct a portion of the flow into the pot. Are there any cons to the mosquito insecticide floating disks that might harm my plants ? Regards Chris ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Mon Mar 28 17:22:47 2005 Subject: [CP] Cephalotus- quick question... Dear Mikala, _Cephalotus_ should not be placed outside during winter--Unless your winter stays well above freezing. Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of Mikala Graham Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 5:22 PM To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Hi all, Just a quickie this time. I read somewhere that cephalotus does not need to hibernate. Is this true? Can I keep it inside with me instead of rejecting it onto the cold of my doorstep? It sure would be nice to have one wee CP inside to look at over winter!! Cheers, Mikala. _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Mon Mar 28 17:48:51 2005 Subject: [CP] New CPN Dear Barry and List, Got the new CPN. What a weird _Heliamphora_! _H. sarracenioides_, hmm... It looks like a jack-in-the-pulpit to me. Odd pick for the name, but hey people (non-CP'ers) tell me they can't tell the difference from _S. purpurea_ and "jack-in-the-pulpit" and even use this as a common name for the purple pitcher plant... I would have named it "H. homophylla", but that's just me ;) Some of the photos of _H. sarracenioides_ do remind me of _Sarracenia rubra_. I wonder if this one has the same chromosomal count as the other species... Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com --- Barry Rice wrote: > > **Yes, another new Heliamphora. But I wish I could > see your jaws drop when > you see what this one looks like! > > Cheers > Barry > > > Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. > Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor > The International Carnivorous Plant Society > http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: walterg at nauticom.net (Walter Greenwood) Date: Mon Mar 28 20:28:01 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Sign that you might be a CP nut. Thanks Phill - I needed that. Rich and I had some good times together, and he was a real wizard with Nepenthes back in the 70's and 80's. He had stuff back then that was unheard of outside of the jungle. Praise be to the TC gods that we take N. fusca and N. tentaculata and N. infundibuliformis (that's what we called it back in the day) for granted nowdays. Rich had plants from the likes of John Turnbull and Anne Middleton and Ray Tripplett, and made them thrive in New York State. According to Rich himself, he chose the location for his house in Cuddebackville on the basis of a local supply of live sphagnum and a water supply that would support its growth. He built his greenhouse over a deep excavation (down to alluvial gravel) that provided heat in winter, cool in summer, and humidity year-round. This arrangement also gave him a variety of temperature strata to work with. He had N. rajah and N. bicalcarata thriving in the same space! F*@&ing genius. Incidentally, if any of you have found a pair of yellow-tinged sunglasses at the northern Florida VFT site in the past 4 or 5 years, they're mine! Richie, I love ya, and I hope you finally built that new greenhouse. - WG >"Phill Mann" wrote: > >These "quotes" were sent to me by a good friend Rich Sivertsen. Many of those originals CPer's still remaining with us will remember Rich and his contributions to the very beginning of CPN. >... > >You climb out of a heavily wooded area, dehydrated, arms hands and face swollen with bug bites and stings, nettles and poison ivy, legs bleeding from climbing through a dense thorny thicket, missing one of your favourite shoes, or boots in the muck, missing your expensive sunglasses, reeking with swamp muck on your torn clothes, after hours of near and total exhaustion, but you're happy and having a great and wonderful day because you just found a new plant that you had never found before. > > ################### From: Writerguy67 at aol.com (Writerguy67@aol.com) Date: Mon Mar 28 21:10:27 2005 Subject: [CP] Illinois cp'ers Sorry, Virginia here. Closer to more CP, but the pizza isn't nearly as good. I've used Mosquito dunks (floating donut thingies that contain Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis (Bti)). Effective larvicide, and no ill effects. I've even noticed that it doesn't seem to bother other invertebrates (typically dragonfly larvae) that end up living in my raised beds during the growing season, and there have been no ill effects on my plants, CP or otherwise (native orchids, swamp azalea, cranberries, bog rosemary, etc.) Jay Lechtman Ashburn, Virginia ################### From: mrg40 at student.canterbury.ac.nz (mrg40) Date: Tue Mar 29 01:28:35 2005 Subject: [CP] Cephalotus- quick question... Dave, Thank-you! I will keep it inside, I am glad to hear that I don't need to give it special hibernation conditions like the others. Mikala. >Dear Mikala, > > > _Cephalotus_ should not be placed outside during winter--Unless your >winter stays well above freezing. > > >Dave Evans >New Jersey, USA >www.Dangerousplants.com > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On Behalf >Of Mikala Graham >Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 5:22 PM >To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group >Subject: [CP] Cephalotus- quick question... > >Hi all, >Just a quickie this time. >I read somewhere that cephalotus does not need to hibernate. Is this >true? Can I keep it inside with me instead of rejecting it onto the cold >of my doorstep? It sure would be nice to have one wee CP inside to look >at over winter!! >Cheers, >Mikala. > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: paul.temple at eds.com (Temple, Paul) Date: Tue Mar 29 03:25:11 2005 Subject: [CP] CITES within the EU Barry As far as I know there are no restrictions to moving plants within the EU. Any restrictions would be and are unenforceable in mainland Europe as the mainland countries have an open border policy. There are no checks on crossing borders. It is technically illegal for anyone to attempt a check unless they have evidence (sufficient for a court of law) to prove reasonable cause for a check. If such reasonable cause didn't exist, we Europeans could sue and win under various laws that protect our freedom here. The UK is a slightly different matter because our borders are not "open". However, the same laws still protect our freedom so a search would be illegal unless due cause was shown to exist prior to the search. All the same, you can move plants freely between the UK and other EU countries. The laws (freedom to move plants) are based on the EU being considered a closed community; the country members are required to apply appropriate measures at their borders with non-EU countries. Thus if you try to enter any EU country form a non-EU country, that's where "illegal" or prohibited movement should be intercepted and prevented. Anything that is already within the EU is presumed (therefore) to be legal and of no risk, so moveable. I wonder why your interest? (No need to tell, I just wonder!) CITES is one of my hot buttons - both the laws and the organisation! Here's some examples of what I consider unfair, unprofessional and inappropriate: If a plant is protected in it's native country and only occurs within protected National Parks, how can material that is removed from the country be used to publish a new species and that document then be seen as valid.? Further, how can no action be taken against both the new species author, his employer (most authors work within botanic gardens) and the source of his material? The simple fact is that any new publication of a new species is its own proof that material was accessed. It is far easier for CITES to ask to see the export permit for material used than it is for CITES to pretend to police international borders. So why don't they do it? Also, if the scientific community in general cares about conservation, which I say it does NOT, then why does it not add to species publication rules that a species name is and will be invalidated by use of material illegally obtained, whether on purpose or not, for the purposes of making an identification? Paul (in Bushey, UK) Imagination is more important than knowledge ################### From: hpulley at rogers.com (Harry Pulley) Date: Tue Mar 29 04:50:54 2005 Subject: [CP] sundew question Thanks Dave, I'm having problems juggling the light, humidity and temperature levels. Right now it is growing quite scraggly, nothing like the compact rosettes I see in pictures of good specimens like yours. I need to try another container I think, to try and get it to grow well. It grew best in the pot with the D. binata multifada extrema but that plant grows so fast that I had to move it out and in its own little pot it hasn't done well with either D. prolifera, which seem to require much less light and are much more tolerant of heat. Right now I have my D. slackii with a highland Nepenthes and some VFTs (both of which do well in a well aerated container in high sun) but it isn't doing well there either. What light and humidity levels do you find are best? Thanks, Harry _Drosera slackii_ is a highland plant. Like some other highlanders, it is very slow to grow to a decent size. Something like three years from a leaf or root cutting. About the same time frame from seed as well. The root cutting method does seem to produce a plant more quickly than via leaves. They do not like heat at all. If you can keep the plant cool all year, you will have good solid growth and the plant will have an amazing red/bronze color when happy. My plants of _D. slackii_ are three year old and are not even half the size of Peter D'Amato's: http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~dpevans/D_slackii.htm Perhaps if they didn't get ill from heat every August, they would be as large. See the side-shoot on the bottom left plant? That's probably taken a year to grow. Dave Evans -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/05 ################### From: Sundew1802 at aol.com (Sundew1802@aol.com) Date: Tue Mar 29 06:56:30 2005 Subject: [CP] CITES within the EU ################### From: DougWitkowski at netscape.net (DougWitkowski@netscape.net) Date: Tue Mar 29 07:11:08 2005 Subject: [CP] Question Why wasn't my question, about circulating water thru a bog, posted??? Doug W __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: smaietta at aabga.org (AABGA) Date: Tue Mar 29 12:06:24 2005 Subject: [CP] Thank you for contacting AABGA. I will be out of the office Thank you for contacting AABGA. I will be out of the office until Wednesday, March 30th. If you need immediate assistance please contact the AABGA offices at 302-655-7100 and press extension 10. Have a wonderful day! Sarah Sarah Maietta Office Manager AABGA 100 West 10th Street Suite 614 Wilmington, DE 19801 302-655-7100 x11 302-655-8100 fax ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Tue Mar 29 12:26:30 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: CITES within the EU Hey Paul, > I wonder why your interest? (No need to tell, I just > wonder!) CITES is > one of my hot buttons - both the laws and the organisation! > Here's some > examples of what I consider unfair, unprofessional and inappropriate: I was curious merely out of general interest. I don't ship plants internationally, so have never had experience with CITES. However, I find it interesting that while the "IT" part of the CITES acronym refers to International Trade, you're saying it doesn't apply crossing borders within the EU. Or are you just saying that searches must have sufficient evidence to occur. For example, if a person was travelling internationally within the EU, and was stopped for some other valid reason which resulted in a legal search, and if undocumented, CITES-listed plants were discovered, would this be a CITES violation? Just curious. By the way, I'm not not wearing nomex today, so won't venture comments on your ruminations regarding the conservation impacts of CITES. I'll leave that to others more adventurous than I. :) Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Director of Conservation Programs The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: DougWitkowski at netscape.net (DougWitkowski@netscape.net) Date: Tue Mar 29 12:55:44 2005 Subject: [CP] New Question OK...so it seems if you put "question" in the subject line, you won't get sensored and rejected. Has anyone tried circulating water through their bog. We know that most bogs are not stagnant but have a very slow flow through them. Is this water anerobic or does it contain some O2? Do the CP's prefer a side of the bog where the water enters? I have been thinking of using a solar powered pump to pull water off the bottom of the bog and run it on the ground at the high end. I know I will incurr a bigger evaporation loss (especially in Central Texas), but will it improve the growing conditions? Will the peat break down too fast? Any ideas out there? Thanks! Doug W Dripping Springs, TX __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: killerplants at aol.com (killerplants@aol.com) Date: Tue Mar 29 15:31:08 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: CP in Houston Tom and All, I did not read this post until this morning, but as luck had it, I visited Mike Howlett at the Nature Center and he provided me excellent directions to Big Thicket(more of a scenic route), not to mention I saw his nice little bog, to boot! But thanks for the tip anyway! Thanks for all your help, Mike! I can't tell you what it's like to be in this hobby for 25 years and never see any of these in the wild, so this was a dream come true! The S. alata were in various stages of blooming, and I saw some nice specimens of P. pumila plus Drosera(I "think" I saw both D. brevifolia and D. capillaris). And as big a kick as that, I saw LIVE SPHAGNUM growing there as well! My family was gracious enough to come with me(it was about two hours from Houston each way), so they got to see most of this too(hard for them to be excited about little red rosettes laying all over the ground in areas, lol). Man, I hope our lousy little digital camera got some decent pics! Cheers, Joe Griffin Lincoln, NE USA Message: 6 To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Message-ID: <20050328022104.84140.qmail@web20128.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hey Joe, The Jesse H. Jones Park & Nature Center has a native canivorous plant exhibit. It is located just north of Houston. Tom ################### From: wildlifegardener at sbcglobal.net (WildLifeGardener) Date: Tue Mar 29 16:58:17 2005 Subject: [CP] Illinois CPers and anyone from the Milwaukee area Hey Chris, how about somebody about 100 miles north and east of you by the lake? I'm in Illinois. You're zone 6 though while I'm zone 5. Oh the difference a hundred miles makes. We don't have much in the way of carnivorous plant societies which is odd given you are but 2 hours from Chicago and I am but an hour from there. One would think there would be something organized as that city is a plethora of things to do and places to go. The native plant societies in the area do very little work with CPs if at all. A few Wild Ones Chapters do acknowledge that many are native and in need of being utilized in landscape designs when ever possible. I do not have the time nor the inclination to start a CP anything but I would be very interested in hooking up with a few people from the Chicago land or Milwaukee area with whom to compare notes. Right now I m sitting with layers of pine needles on my bogs and I don't even know if it is in the best interests of the few remaining CPs in them to remove my mulch My husband says to wait at least another few weeks. Our weather is beyond screwy. And Chris, I set up one kiddie pool bog and can forward photos to you of how I handled the edge. I have also set up a fen and am working on a rather large acid bog that will be lined with epdm. I am surrounded by wetlands and have natural as well as man made ponds. I also have a young son who is now interested and he is working on a very small in ground 20 gallon acid bog. "Is there anybody out there ? Would be nice to find locals in east central illinois or vicinity for trade or general crummy illinois weather discussions. I plan to start a bog with old kids swimming pool this spring. Wife says it's a water feature but I'm building so we'll see what it turns into! Any ideas and pitfalls would be great. Most likely I'd sink a large pot somwhere just beside and direct a portion of the flow into the pot. Are there any cons to the mosquito insecticide floating disks that might harm my plants?" And Hey Lisa, You're out my way, sort of! You killed all your plants except Neps, huh? I've had decent success with germination and would be more than happy to share with you. They are so tiny and so vulnerable but I don't mine splitting off trays at all. ################### From: rlkoester1 at earthlink.net (Lisa Koester) Date: Tue Mar 29 17:18:21 2005 Subject: [CP] Illinois CPers and anyone from the Milwaukee area Howdy-do. I need to re-tool before I take on in anymore cps.... I just felt so bad; our cape sundew was fine until this past winter and poof! It would be nice to get a CP group going.... I can't believe it would be that difficult. I started the Chicago Turtle Club 18 yrs ago and it's still going strong. Perhaps we should take this off-list and see what we can work out. Lisa -----Original Message----- Sent: Mar 29, 2005 7:06 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Hey Chris, how about somebody about 100 miles north and east of you by the lake? I'm in Illinois. You're zone 6 though while I'm zone 5. Oh the difference a hundred miles makes. "Is there anybody out there ? Would be nice to find locals in east central illinois or vicinity for trade or general crummy illinois weather discussions. And Hey Lisa, You're out my way, sort of! You killed all your plants except Neps, huh? I've had decent success with germination and would be more than happy to share with you. They are so tiny and so vulnerable but I don't mine splitting off trays at all. ################### From: nepenthes at borneoexotics.com (Borneo Exotics (Pvt) Ltd) Date: Tue Mar 29 18:20:44 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: CITES within the EU Barry, Having just got back from Europe and the World Orchid Conference in France, I think I know the system - well sort of. French CITES officials (carrying guns in case of resistance - yes really!) came to the conference and closed down several orchid vendors. We were shut down for half an hour whilst they checked everything but as all was in order we were allowed to reopen. Some others remained shut - period. Our plants cleared customs in England and were then taken to France. In theory, there should have been no problem but the French CITES guys wanted to see the yellow copy of the CITES permits (all 68 pages of them) to prove that the plants were legally imported into the E.U. After that it was OK and guns remained holstered. So, yes, plants can cross EU borders without additional permits but if they were imported from outside the E.U. then customs officials have the right to ask to see the yellow copy of the import permits. When you import plants into the EU, customs should take and keep the white and green copies but keep the yellow copy for ever and always, otherwise you might just get shot. Rob Rob Cantley Borneo Exotics (Pvt) Ltd www.borneoexotics.com ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Tue Mar 29 19:55:57 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Dear Joe, No, it is not legal to send CITES listed plants to other countries whether they be given or sold without paying the government their fees for the CITES permits. I think you are mixing two separate laws into one. CITES is an international treaty and the member countries are required to do all the paper work (make permits for trade available) and bust folks who do not have papers for their imported plants. However, it is perfectly legal to sell the plants and seeds intra-state, even those which are threatened or endangered, as long as you don't live within a state that also have naturally occurring locations for those particular species. Permits are needed from the Fish and Game wildlife service for the plants they have listed as threatened and endangered. So, if you live within a state that has or had _S. oreophila_, in order to mail someone free seed, you have to apply (and receive) for a permit so you can prove to the government that you are not harvesting the seed from the "protected" wild populations. In case you're wondering, the permits are the protection that the government extends to the plants, not habitat preservation and restoration, which would make sense, but would not make money for the government and they probably couldn't figure out a way to get kickbacks doing habitat restoration, so that will be an up-hill-fight. For inter-state movement, you do not need permits for donated plant material, so long as there is no exchange and they are truly free, and the species does not occur within your state. Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of killerplants@aol.com Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 5:38 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com I'm lost on this one. Isn't it legal to give specimens of S. oreophila, especially if they are from seed-raised specimens over seas? Cheers, Joe Griffin Lincoln, NE USA ################### From: paul.temple at eds.com (Temple, Paul) Date: Wed Mar 30 03:00:17 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: CITES within the EU Bob asked - "why doesn't the country of origin demand the plants back and prosecute the offenders under international law?" Damned good question!!! Dunno matey. (Damned useless answer, eh?) Maybe they are afraid of losing more in foreign aid from the country that steals their flora than they could win from the country in damages? Maybe it costs too much to go to a world (international) court? In either case, it's a sad fact that mostly poor countries are affected- the rich countries plunder poor countries - colonialism isn't politically correct anymore so countries like USA UK, Germany and Japan just resort to plain theft (before anyone flames me, just check with CITES on which countries steal most plants from other countries, I think you'll find the 4 I list are top or near top). Another possible reason for taking no action could be, maybe, that the Gov't is full of idiots (no, surely not, can't be that one as politicians couldn't be stupid people). Who knows! However, even if they did ask for and get stuff back, it wouldn't undo a new species publication's validity! So, as scientists (botanists) have to publish to gain and maintain credibility, and as there's no punishment for their knowingly publishing using stolen material, so they do so. Not all of course, but even one is too many. In UK law, receipt of stolen property is an offence. I'm fairly sure most developed countries will treat receipt in a similar fashion. Why hasn't CITES ever pressed for receipt to invalidate publication? Why doesn't CITES report receipt as "receipt of stolen property" such that it's dealt with under such existing laws? Why doesn't the scientific community (CITES is part of it) enforce conservation by making receipt of stolen property a factor that automatically invalidates publication? I'm not actually stating that such treatment is the correct approach. What I mean is that either the conservation (CITES) rules are correct, in which case my views are I believe valid, or the CITES rules are wrong and need to be entirely rethought. As they stand, CITES rules prevent plants being rescued from potential or actual oblivion. This does not meet the root intent as once a plant has gone, the original host country cannot profit from it and the world has lost an irreplaceable asset. Paul ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Wed Mar 30 05:20:11 2005 Subject: [CP] anyone have any south florida site locations for drosera capillaris or pinguicula pumila? id be nice to see them in the wild before the swamps flood out here. If not I'm going to go tromping out to systematically find them myself and post photos and mapquest directions. Being elitist about site location information is uncool. Especially when i have no desire to 'rape nature'. ################### From: Sundew1802 at aol.com (Sundew1802@aol.com) Date: Wed Mar 30 06:22:27 2005 Subject: [CP] anyone have any south florida site locations ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Wed Mar 30 06:36:48 2005 Subject: [CP] anyone have any south florida site locations > Hey un-named person > Knock yourself out looking for the plants, then you > can join the rest of us > who have spent the time, money effort and sweat to > find new locations; only to > go back and find all the holes where the plants > used to be. > Bob McMorris > Hudson FL You sir have been less than helpful. From the minute i first contacted you you came off at me aggressively. Regarding missing plants. I visited that freeport bog i discovered in the panhandle, didnt take a single plant. do you know how bad i would feel if i took a plant and it died in captivity when it was thriving so beautifully in the wild? Not only that but i intend to start new bogs down here wherever possible because of all the stuff i keep hearing about land development demolishing stands of sars and such and it breaks my heart. besides, birds would eventually put it there anyway. Apparently i have to do everything myself here. If thats what i need to do, then thats what i'll do. I don't believe in your cliquey attitude which i honestly find rude. I understand youre trying to protect the plants which im wholly for but i think you think its more than that. All i want to do is simply see some plants in the wild, a stand, any stand, it doesnt matter. I am NOT here to poach. "Since you never bother to ever sign your name to your statements, how could such an arrogant and rude person be trusted?" because the people who know me know my email address and its unnecessary. how could you hold such a useless claim against me? I'm really puzzled why you hold so much aggression for someone you havent even met? ################### From: Sundew1802 at aol.com (Sundew1802@aol.com) Date: Wed Mar 30 06:49:32 2005 Subject: [CP] anyone have any south florida site locations In a message dated 3/30/05 9:37:12 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, cixcell@yahoo.com writes: Since you never bother to ever sign your name to your statements, how could such an arrogant and rude person be trusted?" because the people who know me know my email address and its unnecessary. how could you hold such a useless claim against me? I'm really puzzled why you hold so much aggression for someone you havent even met? ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Wed Mar 30 09:38:43 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: CITES within the EU Dear Paul and List, Well, I have not read the law recently, but if it is a "new" species, meaning no one, or at least no one not native to the area has recorded or named the plant, it will not be on CITES' appendices... Still you would probably need permits to collect plants that do not occur on private land (and in some cases, even on private land), in almost any country. So publication of new species can help CITES officials recognize which plants are most threatened and can be, hopefully, placed on the correct appendix. Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of Temple, Paul Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 5:59 AM Bob asked - "why doesn't the country of origin demand the plants back and prosecute the offenders under international law?" Damned good question!!! Dunno matey. (Damned useless answer, eh?) Another possible reason for taking no action could be, maybe, that the Gov't is full of idiots (no, surely not, can't be that one as politicians couldn't be stupid people). Who knows! Paul ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Wed Mar 30 09:52:04 2005 Subject: [CP] anyone have any south florida site locations Dear, umm, Chris?, What will be moved where by what birds? Thanks for any info, Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of Christopher Hind Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 9:37 AM To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > Hey un-named person You sir have been less than helpful Not only that but i intend to start new bogs down here wherever possible because of all the stuff i keep hearing about land development demolishing stands of sars and such and it breaks my heart. besides, birds would eventually put it there anyway. ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Wed Mar 30 10:09:23 2005 Subject: [CP] anyone have any south florida site locations > Dear, umm, Chris?, > > > What will be moved where by what birds? > > > Thanks for any info, > Dave Evans It's called johnny appleseeding with native plants and theres nothing anyone can do about it. ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Wed Mar 30 10:10:33 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: CITES within the EU Hi Dave et al, >From what I remember of the CITES list, they may list a group of plants without naming specific species. For example, they may list something like "all species of Sarracenia excluding those included in Appendix I" under their Appendix II listing. This way, it covers all new, undescribed species. This may have been revised since I last looked at their website, but I seem to recall this being the case (orchids come to mind as another example). One thing about CITES is that they often include species that may not be threatened at all, but just look similar to ones that are and so are included. Again, my example of Sarracenia. S.purpurea has an extremely healthy population, and is very widespread, yet it is included in Appendix II, primarily because most customs officials can't tell an S.oreophila from an S.purpurea. I find the IUCN redlist is a better indicator of the true threatened status of species (though some may be well outdated if there has not been recent population estimates). CITES is more concerned with the trade industry and protecting those species that are or may be threatened by trade. Getting collecting permits is definitely important, and necessary permits vary from country to country. Unfortunately, in most developing countries getting a permit is quite easy if you're willing to make "financial contributions" to the licensor. I've found that when transporting plants through the US and Canada (across borders) they are 99% of the time looking for phytosanitary certificates, not CITES or even local collection permits. Things are probably different if your trading in large quantities, animals, or certain plant groups (orchids, cacti), but it does reflect on how busy the customs officials generally are, and the likely lack of communication amongst government officials. Chris > >Dear Paul and List, > > > Well, I have not read the law recently, but if it is a "new" >species, meaning no one, or at least no one not native to the area has >recorded or named the plant, it will not be on CITES' appendices... Still >you would probably need permits to collect plants that do not occur on >private land (and in some cases, even on private land), in almost any >country. So publication of new species can help CITES officials recognize >which plants are most threatened and can be, hopefully, placed on the >correct appendix. > > >Dave Evans > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On >Behalf >Of Temple, Paul >Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 5:59 AM > > >Bob asked - "why doesn't the country of origin demand the plants back and >prosecute the offenders under international law?" > > >Damned good question!!! > >Dunno matey. (Damned useless answer, eh?) > >Another possible reason for taking no action could be, maybe, that the >Gov't >is full of idiots (no, surely not, can't be that one as politicians >couldn't >be stupid people). > >Who knows! > > >Paul > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: RL7836 at earthlink.net (Ron Lane) Date: Wed Mar 30 12:37:17 2005 Subject: [CP] Starting new bogs <> Chris - please don't do this . Well intentioned people can cause major harm. If a re-introduction is well researched and documented, obviously it can be a good thing. However, how would you feel if you started a new bog w/ S. leuco that happened to be 1/4 mi from a unique stand of S. oreophila? Over time, the S. leuco pollen may pollute the S. oreo gene pool and possibly have us lose those genes forever. This is one example of how well-intentioned people can cause bad things to happen (Barry & others can probably provide many real-life examples). Ron Lane RL7836@earthlink.net To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Message-ID: <20050330143641.63961.qmail@web54101.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii do you know how bad i would feel if i took a plant and it died in captivity when it was thriving so beautifully in the wild? Not only that but i intend to start new bogs down here wherever possible because of all the stuff i keep hearing about land development demolishing stands of sars and such and it breaks my heart. besides, birds would eventually put it there anyway. ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Wed Mar 30 13:00:24 2005 Subject: [CP] Starting new bogs > Chris - please don't do this . Well > intentioned people > can cause major harm. If a re-introduction is well > researched and > documented, obviously it can be a good thing. > > However, how would you feel if you started a new bog > w/ S. leuco that > happened to be 1/4 mi from a unique stand of S. > oreophila? Over time, > the S. leuco pollen may pollute the S. oreo gene > pool and possibly have > us lose those genes forever. This is one example of > how well-intentioned > people can cause bad things to happen (Barry & > others can probably > provide many real-life examples). well, if noone tells me where anything is i simply have to assume it doesnt exist. besides, we have oreo in cultivation. if we dont start seeding/planting there wont be any cps existing out of cultivation. besides there cant be much mixing of the species, nothing really has changed evolution wise, they still have the same pollenators, same environments. mixing of the genes occurs in nature already. if theres one thing about me, dont present yourself as a roadblock or barrier. i'm a pretty reasonable person but i LOVE a great challenge. noone tells me what i cant do. plus its like an easter egg hunt. i was always good at those =) Bob, the p. pumila site on big pine key. I WILL find it. =) ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Wed Mar 30 13:41:38 2005 Subject: [CP] Starting new bogs Dear Chris, This is not true. Please learn some more about _Sarracenia_ before you assume you know it all. _P. pumila_ is not in a "hidden" location. Your comments are odd sounding to me... And you wonder why people don't want to tell you where stuff is located. Thanks, Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of Christopher Hind Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:00 PM To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > Chris - please don't do this . Well > intentioned people > can cause major harm. If a re-introduction is well > researched and > documented, obviously it can be a good thing. well, if noone tells me where anything is i simply have to assume it doesnt exist. besides, we have oreo in cultivation. if we dont start seeding/planting there wont be any cps existing out of cultivation. besides there cant be much mixing of the species, nothing really has changed evolution wise, they still have the same pollenators, same environments. mixing of the genes occurs in nature already. Bob, the p. pumila site on big pine key. I WILL find it. =) ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Wed Mar 30 13:59:27 2005 Subject: [CP] Starting new bogs > This is not true. Please learn some more about > _Sarracenia_ before > you assume you know it all. > > _P. pumila_ is not in a "hidden" location. Your > comments are odd > sounding to me... And you wonder why people don't > want to tell you where > stuff is located. the whole situation is odd to me as well. understand seeing ANY cp in the wild short of utrics is impressive to me. im not concerned at all about 'hidden' locations. i just have not received any help in finding any sites. they're all kept from me as though its some big secret because (im assuming) they're afraid im going to dig them all up unless its some sort of clique. the person i knew who had the sites wasnt the slightest bit friendly to me from the get-go and ignored me all the other times i attempted to contact him. im really a very nice person but if someone gives me reason to be a d1ck in return, ill be one. when i wanted to see darlingtonia in northern cali i contacted hawkeye was totally cool about it he knew i wasnt going to rape nature and just a hobbyist fascinated with the idea of seeing it in the wild. in california it takes __SO MUCH EFFORT__ to grow CP we truely value what precious plants they are. its probably the very last state you would find people coming from who poach. ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Wed Mar 30 14:27:20 2005 Subject: [CP] Starting new bogs > in california it takes __SO MUCH EFFORT__ to grow CP > we truely value what precious plants they are. What?! Because of the generally mild winters, California is probably the easiest of places to grow CP. > we truely value what precious plants they are. its > probably the very last state you would find people > coming from who poach. Get real! We Californians have one of the most "get something for nothing" attitudes. If it is loose, we take it. If it is precious, grab it first before someone else gets it. -Bob- from California ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Wed Mar 30 15:00:19 2005 Subject: [CP] Pinguicula colimensis Hey Listserve smarties, My lovely wife has a Pinguicula colimensis, which has been dormant for a few months. It now appears to be coming out of dormancy, but not very effectively. The rosette-center leaves are elongating only by a tiny amount, while the leaves at the rosette edge are dying, one by one, two by two. Is there anyone on this listserve with experience with this plant? Currently her terrarium has several nice Pings, including flowering P. emarginata, flowering P. laueana (very nice!), Mexican species, P. ionantha, etc., so she's pretty adept at growing them. So she's not a newbie. She only feeds them with bugs---should she try some orchid fertilizer or something like that? Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Director of Conservation Programs The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Wed Mar 30 15:09:04 2005 Subject: [CP] Starting new bogs Ok Man, Now I understand where you are coming from better. I don't know of too many big locations that are not already well known, but I have located some on my own. Have you been out looking any other sites, other than those you had directions to? That is basically how these plants are located by CP'ers. In order to see good locations for _Sarracenia_, I travel down five states and start looking for them. There is no clique. After returning to the same places for several years, people get to know you and if they like you they might just show you other locations nearby, or not. Many of the locations I found ten years ago with my friend Tom have been further damaged and many have been wiped out by development. I don't have any intention in giving any specific directions to where they are located to people I hardly know and haven't even met face-to-face. BTW, California is the best state for horticulture, if I had the money to, I would move there. Also, it is not just you, but someone else you might tell, and so on. There have been plenty of previously damaged (by development, which were still perfectly fixable. In fact you can develop right around wetlands without causing much damage, but for some reason this is not how we do things in this country!) locations where the few surviving _Sarracenia_ were wiped out by collectors after some "newbies" were taken to or found out about them. Was it the new people, was it just bad luck? Since they don't have control over bad luck, the only other option is to control the location data. What would you feel if this was what happened to the locations you found and made known to a wider audience? You spent your time and energy to find them so someone could come in and remove many/all the plants helping to further damage the environment? Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of Christopher Hind Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:59 PM i just have not received any help in finding any sites. they're all kept from me as though its some big secret because (im assuming) they're afraid im going to dig them all up unless its some sort of clique. the person i knew who had the sites wasnt the slightest bit friendly to me from the get-go and ignored me all the other times i attempted to contact him. im really a very nice person but if someone gives me reason to be a d1ck in return, ill be one. when i wanted to see darlingtonia in northern cali i contacted hawkeye was totally cool about it he knew i wasnt going to rape nature and just a hobbyist fascinated with the idea of seeing it in the wild. in california it takes __SO MUCH EFFORT__ to grow CP we truely value what precious plants they are. its probably the very last state you would find people coming from who poach. ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Wed Mar 30 15:26:30 2005 Subject: [CP] Starting new bogs > What?! Because of the generally mild winters, > California is probably the > easiest of places to grow CP. Feel free to move there, pay exorbinant rents like $1281 for 650 sq ft without a porch (which i was paying) while watching your plants dessicate INSIDE YOUR HOUSE because the air is THAT dry. > Get real! We Californians have one of the most "get > something for > nothing" attitudes. If it is loose, we take it. If > it is precious, grab > it first before someone else gets it. do you go to the LACPS meetings? i did before i moved out here. californians are much much more consciously aware of the idea of conservation. i know because i myself am one as well. there are people here who would think nothing of taking a plant from the wild. ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Wed Mar 30 15:29:37 2005 Subject: [CP] Starting new bogs Mr. Hind's comments smack of a hairy humanoid that lives under a bridge. If anyone is scratching their heads, do a google search for trolling. Chris >From: "Dave Evans" >Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group >To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" >Subject: RE: [CP] Starting new bogs >Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:41:27 -0500 > >Dear Chris, > > > This is not true. Please learn some more about _Sarracenia_ before >you assume you know it all. > > _P. pumila_ is not in a "hidden" location. Your comments are odd >sounding to me... And you wonder why people don't want to tell you where >stuff is located. > > >Thanks, >Dave Evans >New Jersey, USA >www.Dangerousplants.com > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On >Behalf >Of Christopher Hind >Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:00 PM >To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group >Subject: Re: [CP] Starting new bogs > > > Chris - please don't do this . Well > > intentioned people > > can cause major harm. If a re-introduction is well > > researched and > > documented, obviously it can be a good thing. > >well, if noone tells me where anything is i simply >have to assume it doesnt exist. besides, we have oreo >in cultivation. if we dont start seeding/planting >there wont be any cps existing out of cultivation. >besides there cant be much mixing of the species, >nothing really has changed evolution wise, they still >have the same pollenators, same environments. mixing >of the genes occurs in nature already. > >Bob, the p. pumila site on big pine key. I WILL find >it. =) > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Wed Mar 30 15:37:55 2005 Subject: [CP] Pinguicula colimensis Hi Barry, I've grown this plant in the past, and never had any problems with it. Seemed to be a pretty easy grower. However, I have had similar symptoms on other pings. I tried all sorts of potential solutions to no avail; repotting, light fertilizer, increased humidity, etc. (not necessarily in that order, repotting is fairly extreme). The only saving grace was the abundant winter leaves that are so easy to start new plants from. I think that these plants do have a finite lifespan, and once it's up, it's up! Sorry that doesn't solve your problems. Just a supportive note I guess ;-)! Chris > > >Hey Listserve smarties, > >My lovely wife has a Pinguicula colimensis, which has been dormant for a >few >months. It now appears to be coming out of dormancy, but not very >effectively. The rosette-center leaves are elongating only by a tiny >amount, >while the leaves at the rosette edge are dying, one by one, two by two. Is >there anyone on this listserve with experience with this plant? > >Currently her terrarium has several nice Pings, including flowering P. >emarginata, flowering P. laueana (very nice!), Mexican species, P. >ionantha, >etc., so she's pretty adept at growing them. So she's not a newbie. She >only >feeds them with bugs---should she try some orchid fertilizer or something >like that? > >Barry > >Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. >Director of Conservation Programs >The International Carnivorous Plant Society >http://www.carnivorousplants.org > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Wed Mar 30 15:40:52 2005 Subject: [CP] Starting new bogs > Mr. Hind's comments smack of a hairy humanoid that > lives under a bridge. If > anyone is scratching their heads, do a google search > for trolling. i wish i were trolling. ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Wed Mar 30 16:13:37 2005 Subject: [CP] Pinguicula colimensis Since it's a plant being grown by a lovely wife, it should really be named Pinguicula comelyensis. In a message dated 3/30/2005 3:00:39 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, bamrice@ucdavis.edu writes: My lovely wife has a Pinguicula colimensis, TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: mrg40 at student.canterbury.ac.nz (Mikala Graham) Date: Wed Mar 30 16:38:25 2005 Subject: [SPAM: 4.000] Re: [CP] Pinguicula colimensis 'drumroll' to support great joke :) HmrTheHrmt@aol.com wrote: > > > Since it's a plant being grown by a lovely wife, it should really be named > Pinguicula comelyensis. > > > In a message dated 3/30/2005 3:00:39 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > bamrice@ucdavis.edu writes: > > My lovely wife has a Pinguicula colimensis, > > > > > > > > TTFN > > > Hamir the Hermit > > > "We're busy doing nothing, working all day through, > We're trying to find lots of things not to do. > We're busy going nowhere, isn't it such a crime? > We'd like to be unhappy, but we never do have the time." > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: Killerplants at aol.com (Killerplants@aol.com) Date: Wed Mar 30 16:38:38 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Oh Dear, No, I must have not conveyed this correctly. I was merely stating that I did not see a problem of one person who lives in the UK donating specimens of S. oreophila to a botanical garden in that same country. Cheers, Joe Griffin Lincoln, NE USA In a message dated 3/30/2005 2:02:41 P.M. Central Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: Message: 8 To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" Message-ID: <000001c534dc$584d7d50$22aba8c0@ad.ess.rutgers.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Joe, No, it is not legal to send CITES listed plants to other countries whether they be given or sold without paying the government their fees for the CITES permits. I think you are mixing two separate laws into one. CITES is an international treaty and the member countries are required to do all the paper work (make permits for trade available) and bust folks who do not have papers for their imported plants. -----Original Message----- Of killerplants@aol.com Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 5:38 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com I'm lost on this one. Isn't it legal to give specimens of S. oreophila, especially if they are from seed-raised specimens over seas? Cheers, Joe Griffin Lincoln, NE USA ################### From: tvaughan at charter.net (Tim Vaughan) Date: Wed Mar 30 16:52:28 2005 Subject: [CP] Pinguicula colimensis Yes, do what Chris said and pull off a few of those small leaves for extra plants. What's happening to your wife's plants is basically what is happening to mine right now, on the central coast of CA, although more advanced since mine are in an open greenhouse, and just barely starting to hint at breaking dormancy. I find them a fairly easy grower, and it sounds like her's are coming along normally. ################### From: Killerplants at aol.com (Killerplants@aol.com) Date: Wed Mar 30 17:23:35 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 29 Hi All, I know the terra forums people and the list serve people do not see eye-to-eye all the time, but there is a very serious issue here: A young man from Ohio had his plants confiscated , because a judge ruled that CP were dangerous killers and were a threat to other animals. Does anybody have any ideas on how to fix this? The link is below. _http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin/ib312/ikonboard.cgi?s=379851e90b6c016557f32 e62315e02b5;act=ST;f=14;t=17320_ (http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin/ib312/ikonboard.cgi?s=379851e90b6c016557f32e62315e02b5;act=ST;f=14;t=17320) I wish this was a April Fool's joke.. Cheers, ################### From: wildlifegardener at sbcglobal.net (WildLifeGardener) Date: Wed Mar 30 19:39:23 2005 Subject: [CP] Illinois CPers Hey Chris, photos on their way to you per your request and looking forward to a visit from you and your wife this coming spring or summer. I have young kids so bring the grandchildren if you so desire. It will be fun. I actually am looking forward to anyone interested in CPs visiting. I don't know if you are interested but look up the Volo Bog in Google. They have a wonderful site and that bog is only about 45 minutes from my house. If you and your wife would be interested in visiting that State Park, I would be more than happy to accompany you. Hey Lisa, I've got a lot of things that went "poof" over here. Squirrels were the poofers that sent my CPs to CP heaven but there were other contributing critters. I'm convinced they are organizing out there and planning an all out assault on the replacement CPs I am buying and have been gifted. I'm preparing for battle here this coming fall is about all I can say. As far as a CP group that would be local, it would be great. Sadly, I truly don't have the time to devote to organization of such a group. I wish I had the time to do such a group justice however I am spread too thin as it is. Have you found the International Carnivorous Plant Site yet? Try this link, you won't be sorry- http://www.carnivorousplants.org/ Here's one of my favorites for photos- http://www.humboldt.edu/~rrz7001/ I'll hear from you in a few weeks after you surface. Hopefully your eyeballs don't fall too far out of your head from clicking on one plant photo after the next there. I can't visit that site without getting stuck there for at least an hour. My girlfriend and I sat here at my computer a few weeks ago and our husbands thought we were nuts because we were at that site for 3 hours. ################### From: rlkoester1 at earthlink.net (Lisa Koester) Date: Wed Mar 30 19:50:49 2005 Subject: [CP] Illinois CPers Hi Laura and all... Volo bog is a great place! We had our herpetological society picnic there one year. Group organization isn't all that difficult... pick a location (with permission of course), date and time and the rest does itself once a core group is established. Problem is finding people willing to drive. We're spread thin, too..... I was just telling Chris that we'd lost electrical power for four months this past year... and were running all our turtle filters, heaters and stuff off the six remaining outlets in the apartment. Of course this happened right after I ordered my pings and drosera :-( But we shall re-vamp and come back stronger! The I.C.P.S. is indeed awesome! I've finished many a cup of coffee infront of it. lol Great minds, eh? Lisa Lisa Koester The Chicago Turtle Club, A Great Place for Animals, Information, Fun and Friends! http://www.geocities.com/~chicagoturtle ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Wed Mar 30 19:53:35 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 29 The judge must have gotten a hold of one of our LACPS t-shirts, depicting an ominous VFT walking along on its roots. Otherwise I don't know how he thinks an ordinance which stipulates the offending animal (or plant) commit its aggressiveness while OFF the owner's premises could possibly apply. Oh, excuse me, I have to go rope in my triffids, they seem to have broken out of the corral and are terrorizing the neighborhood..... In a message dated 3/30/2005 5:23:58 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Killerplants@aol.com writes: Hi All, I know the terra forums people and the list serve people do not see eye-to-eye all the time, but there is a very serious issue here: A young man from Ohio had his plants confiscated , because a judge ruled that CP were dangerous killers and were a threat to other animals. Does anybody have any ideas on how to fix this? The link is below. _http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin/ib312/ikonboard.cgi?s=379851e90b6c016557f32 e62315e02b5;act=ST;f=14;t=17320_ (http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin/ib312/ikonboard.cgi?s=379851e90b6c016557f32 e62315e02b5;act=ST;f=14;t=17320) I wish this was a April Fool's joke.. TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Wed Mar 30 21:17:46 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 29 Dear List, I just read the thread on PFT forum about Ozzy's problems. I think this basically proves that the country is going $hit. Fix problems from the past, yeah right, they can't get anything right with the current laws anymore... The judge was probably mad about him not having hired a lawyer. Since you're in court, you have to pay some one and you didn't get a lawyer, so the judge will work out something to get money out of you. Try never to hire a lawyer, they are not worth the damage they are doing to our country. Remember all judges are also lawyers (many are also on the take, 'cause its all about money, money money!) I suggest suing the town for the value of your stolen property, of course you need to hire a lawyer in order to possibly win, so someone from the legal profession can 'earn' some money and, the court will not be stacked against you. Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of Killerplants@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 8:23 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Hi All, I know the terra forums people and the list serve people do not see eye-to-eye all the time, but there is a very serious issue here: A young man from Ohio had his plants confiscated , because a judge ruled that CP were dangerous killers and were a threat to other animals. Does anybody have any ideas on how to fix this? The link is below. _http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin/ib312/ikonboard.cgi?s=379851e90b6c016557f 32 e62315e02b5;act=ST;f=14;t=17320_ (http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin/ib312/ikonboard.cgi?s=379851e90b6c016557f 32e62315e02b5;act=ST;f=14;t=17320) I wish this was a April Fool's joke.. Cheers, Joe Griffin Lincoln, NE USA ################### From: nepenthes at borneoexotics.com (Borneo Exotics (Pvt) Ltd) Date: Wed Mar 30 21:40:31 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: CITES within the EU Paul, You said: "Why doesn't the scientific community (CITES is part of it)..." Is it really? Each different country interprets the CITES as they see fit within the CITES framework and sometimes have completely different requirements, such as the UK which is very strict on CBD issues and have been known to refuse CITES import permits unless the importer can PROVE the seeds that the plants were derived from were collected legally - what about human rights??? Guilty until proved innocent??? But I digress... Each country appoints a Government Department to act at the local CITES Management Authority. They usually turn to other experts for advice when there is an issue. For example the Scientific Advisor to the CITES Management Authority in the UK is Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew. Even the CITES Secretariat in Geneva relies heavily on the IUCN Red List in deciding what status to accord to a particular plant or animal. In my view, CITES is more of a policing organization than a scientific one. Certainly the gun-toting CITES officials in France did not seem to be scientists! Rob ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Thu Mar 31 00:02:37 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 29 And it has been my experience that, especially in smaller towns, the entire network of lawyers and judges is an old boys' club. If you get lucky enough to hire the "popular" lawyer, and it's in his interest to win your case (which, interestingly enough, isn't always the situation) you've got it made. On the other hand, if you hire the "unpopular" lawyer, or represent yourself, you're likely to get screwed. In a message dated 3/30/2005 9:18:46 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu writes: Try never to hire a lawyer, they are not worth the damage they are doing to our country. Remember all judges are also lawyers (many are also on the take, 'cause its all about money, money money!) TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Thu Mar 31 01:41:46 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 29 Dear List, Man I hope this is a joke, think about it. He was fined $150.00 per plant. Some collections have hundreds of plants. What if he had been running a nursery? The fines would be in the ten of thousands. Nearly every town in the country has that exact same law, almost word for word. Do our officials have the mental capacity to administer the laws correctly? I read the law six times, never did Ozzy or his plants violate the law, nor could they, well Ozzy could in theory, but his plants? An aside: Township dog license fees are about $6.00. New Jersey politicians are debating a bill that will raise the license fees across the state to $1,200.00 or $1,500.00 per year per dog of the pit-bull breeds and pit mixes, and a couple of other breeds. Now, the only reason pit-bulls (besides for the occasional insane/mentally degraded dog) are vicious is because people beat them to make them viscous so they can fight them and win money by betting on the fights. So they want the most viscous dog, so they can win more bets, and rent the winning dog for stud duty. What the hell does this have to do with my animals? Why should I be punished for owning a beautiful animal, that some sick folks prefer to abuse? Yet New Jersey is taking on this problem by making me pay for other peoples' criminal (and evil) behavior, before they even do it. What is next, to own CP's you'll need a license? And then they start arbitrarily raising the license fees, because this plant might be able to eat a small frog, so you need a "viscous plant" license? A note from the past: Like I have mentioned before, you can follow all the laws, like this fellow, Ozzy, appears to have been doing, and the government will find you in violation of something, or just make something up to get money out you. It has happened to me at least once--I was fined for loitering in New Brunswick, New Jersey, because, get this, I'm white and some my friends are black and the police explained that since there are drug dealers in the neighborhood and there were no other whites around, I was there for a drug deal. There were five of us in the car, they told three of my passengers to "get lost.", of course they had nowhere to get lost to as we were all together, and issued me and my friend's cousin (who just wanted a ride to his house a couple block away) a ticket each for loitering--After hand cuffing us and keeping us in the back of their car for over a half hour to teach me a lesson that when the officer says, "why are you here?" I'm supposed to reply, "I'm here to buy drugs." That wasn't my answer, so he had to teach me the lesson until I got it right. I had to sit, with my hands cuffed behind my back until I agreed with the officer's flights of fancy. The first five minutes weren't bad, but then you get tired and more of your weight is on the cuffs and they start bruising your wrists. The fine was $1,280.00, when I went to court I told the prosecutor the charge was BS and racially motivated. He changed the fine to just under $200.00, if I would agree to plead guilty and I did or I would have lost the case and ended up paying the full amount. I could not win because all the police have to say is, "we noticed the defendant's car parked in a known drug dealing area." Never mind that I was only waiting for the police cruiser that had pulled up behind my car to continue on so I could pull out. I'm waiting while the police were actually talking with the drug dealers, they finished 'talking about the weather' and had started to pull off when they noticed the driver of my car was white. Brakes slammed on, officers out, guns upholstered, but thank God not pointed at us, shouting, "get out of the car now!" With no evidence what-so-ever they hit Calvin and I with a huge fine and some verbal/mental abuse. The officers didn't seems like they were trying to hurt us per say, just trying to justify a large fine. Man, they searched my car over and over for more than an hour, stole items from my car and left it in disarray, but did not break anything of importance. I was really worried that they were going to start cuttings up the car to look for "drugs", after telling real, but poor, drug dealers to have a nice day. This is how cities make a little extra money and this apparently goes on everyday in many cities here in USA. Any idea how to fix this????? Seems like the same problem Ozzy is currently facing, only the details are different. Does the city make any money locking up poor drug dealers? No, they make money by fining people who have real jobs and an income they can track. And this judge that handled Ozzy's case, boy she played Ozzy for a fool. Make a list of all your plants, if you leave any off, you'll be found in contempt of court. So he produces a complete list and the judge turns around and fines him for each plant on the list, expect for the _Utricularia_. Wow, what a nice, solid kick to the cajones. She is responsible for making sure cases are handled correctly, glad to know she is asleep at the wheel, but not the money wheel. This is someone who's judgment we rely upon to keep innocent people out of jail and she can't even handle a third degree misdemeanor case... What happens in that town when crimes do occur, do they just pick up the first guy they can find w/o an alibi and throw the book at him? I hope this thread is a hoax, but it doesn't seem to be so. Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of HmrTheHrmt@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 10:53 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com The judge must have gotten a hold of one of our LACPS t-shirts, depicting an ominous VFT walking along on its roots. Otherwise I don't know how he thinks an ordinance which stipulates the offending animal (or plant) commit its aggressiveness while OFF the owner's premises could possibly apply. Oh, excuse me, I have to go rope in my triffids, they seem to have broken out of the corral and are terrorizing the neighborhood..... In a message dated 3/30/2005 5:23:58 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Killerplants@aol.com writes: Hi All, I know the terra forums people and the list serve people do not see eye-to-eye all the time, but there is a very serious issue here: A young man from Ohio had his plants confiscated , because a judge ruled that CP were dangerous killers and were a threat to other animals. Does anybody have any ideas on how to fix this? The link is below. _http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin/ib312/ikonboard.cgi?s=379851e90b6c016557f 32 e62315e02b5;act=ST;f=14;t=17320_ (http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin/ib312/ikonboard.cgi?s=379851e90b6c016557f 32 e62315e02b5;act=ST;f=14;t=17320) I wish this was a April Fool's joke.. TTFN Hamir the Hermit "We're busy doing nothing, working all day through, We're trying to find lots of things not to do. We're busy going nowhere, isn't it such a crime? We'd like to be unhappy, but we never do have the time." ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Thu Mar 31 01:43:02 2005 Subject: [CP] anyone have any south florida site locations wow. didn't you just move there from southern california? nice first impression, dude. Gary Kong Christopher Hind wrote: >> Dear, umm, Chris?, >> >> >> What will be moved where by what birds? >> >> >> Thanks for any info, >> Dave Evans > >It's called johnny appleseeding with native plants and >theres nothing anyone can do about it. > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: writserv at nbnet.nb.ca (Rand Nicholson) Date: Thu Mar 31 03:59:28 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 29 > Don't suppose you could send me a cutting of one of those triffids if different from my cv's T. "A.T. Hun" and T. "C. Manson"? > >The judge must have gotten a hold of one of our LACPS t-shirts, depicting an >ominous VFT walking along on its roots. Otherwise I don't know how he >thinks an ordinance which stipulates the offending animal (or plant) commit its >aggressiveness while OFF the owner's premises could possibly apply. Oh, excuse >me, I have to go rope in my triffids, they seem to have broken out of the >corral and are terrorizing the neighborhood..... > > > >In a message dated 3/30/2005 5:23:58 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, >Killerplants@aol.com writes: > >Hi All, > >I know the terra forums people and the list serve people do not see >eye-to-eye all the time, but there is a very serious issue here: >A young man from Ohio had his plants confiscated , because a judge ruled >that CP were dangerous killers and were a threat to other animals. >Does anybody have any ideas on how to fix this? The link is below. > > >_http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin/ib312/ikonboard.cgi?s=379851e90b6c016557f32 >e62315e02b5;act=ST;f=14;t=17320_ >(http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin/ib312/ikonboard.cgi?s=379851e90b6c016557f32 >e62315e02b5;act=ST;f=14;t=17320) > >I wish this was a April Fool's joke.. > > > > > > > > >TTFN > > >Hamir the Hermit > > >"We're busy doing nothing, working all day through, >We're trying to find lots of things not to do. >We're busy going nowhere, isn't it such a crime? >We'd like to be unhappy, but we never do have the time." >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Thu Mar 31 04:07:50 2005 Subject: [CP] anyone have any south florida site locations > wow. didn't you just move there from southern > california? nice first impression, dude. i didnt strike first blood. im not that kind of person, its when bob mcmorris acted like an ahole to me that set me off. my first ever response from the man: Who are you?? most people sign thier names to what ever they post. Where in FL is 'Freeport'?? Bob McMorris Hudson FL Not the friendliest person... so i thought id try again: oh heh. sorry I'm Chris Hind in Manhattan Beach, CA. Ivan lives a few minutes from me in Hermosa Beach. Freeport if off the 10. heres a map below: http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?ovi=1&zoom=4&mapdata=xdlKKnKES%2f7hO3%2bDDxhp%2fseTLb63YPjt3tnrr6JMes00SfeqahJkvIPVUqs1sIU5HK%2bu5qs7H5fuUgV4iCKNoOTeNOaVcqRujQBN9NtPiXwlUbk%2bgsuPZeKdrUXGyuVc1%2bfYrbYNHMn5DGrKpvwApGwbs7124QlrshO1HSf7jX7DB2SyJIQz0GacGzrGpqguSKks7UAZMppJGOQnizxMYi4b0oYXMmHFf62tz%2bt79bQIDghshnYwUhCj5SgZP79jq5nTWyWILhmCo8Nl5o%2fYgPlmzJgwVST4669pTjm7wlH%2fgpLl64uLr2F6A5fFEREKMyINNrF2Dc3FIMjXKB%2bu%2bx4WO8SHEpnGCkVF3nOcV0o%3d its basically by fort walton beach - panama city beach area. Ivan told me so much about you (all good things i might add) =) How's everything out there? never heard anything back from him. tried more times, never heard anything back. the guy is an ahole. ################### From: writerguy67 at aol.com (writerguy67@aol.com) Date: Thu Mar 31 05:54:48 2005 Subject: [CP] Starting new bogs Here, here, Dave! I was a newbie once ... we all were. Some of us were lucky enough to be newbies when there were far more carnivores in this world, and they were much easier to find (although I'm approaching 40, and was a bit old to be a "newbie" 10 years or so ago, I wasn't one of them). I used to decry the fact that the veterans weren't more forthcoming with their hard-earned location data. That's the point ... hard-earned. It's not a clique, in my mind, but a fraternity (or sorority as the case may be). I have spent a lot of time exploring on my own and with others. We have found new sites through our own efforts. And that has provided currency in discussions about locations with others. I've paid my dues, and demonstrated (I hope and believe) that I've been a responsible steward. I have made friends, and we have shared information amongst ourselves and with others we trust, because we have that common currency. Trust -- it's not assumed, but earned. It's simple economics, really ... people assign value based on supply and demand, and people want to protect what's valuable. Can I make a humble suggestion (not just for Chris, but for anyone who has nothing to "trade" and wants location information)? Google. There is CP location data all over the internet. State and national parks, Nature Conservancy preserves, state wildlife areas, etc. For example, I've never seen S. oreophila in the wild. I would like to before I die. Found a website for a national preserve in Alabama that features the plant. Now, it's going to take some work to find out exactly where it is -- phone calls to the ranger station, etc. It's worth the work. I never expect this to be easy, and I don't expect people to just give me (without some previous relationship and developed trust) sensitive, private or heard-earned (there's that term again) information. There is so much that is publicly accessible in this great nation of ours. I've seen S. alata growing next to rest stops along Interstates, and S. flava in ditches in front of people's homes. Plants are there. They can be found if you work at it a bit. And after you've paid your dues -- after you've worked at it and made your own discoveries. You have something, perhaps, to trade with others. And, um, another humble request. Can we stop stereotyping people based on geography? :-) I'm a native southern californian. Californians are no more environmentally conscious than anyone else, in my mind. The same battles over development, the same battles between the lumber industry and environmentalists happen there as they do in Virginia, or Maine or Florida. As a kid, I used to spend my allowance buying Darlingtonia californica plants in plastic bags at the local K-Mart by the dozens ('cause they had been ripped out of the ground and sold en mass to discount stores). Ok ... rant concluded. And, (speaking of trades) Bob, I'm putting your plants together -- Helies and Utrics for now, S. flavas as soon as I can get to dividing them. I still like you, no matter WHAT people are calling you . Jay Lechtman Northern Virginia, USA -----Original Message----- To: 'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group' Sent: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 18:08:52 -0500 Ok Man, Now I understand where you are coming from better. I don't know of too many big locations that are not already well known, but I have located some on my own. Have you been out looking any other sites, other than those you had directions to? That is basically how these plants are located by CP'ers. In order to see good locations for _Sarracenia_, I travel down five states and start looking for them. There is no clique. After returning to the same places for several years, people get to know you and if they like you they might just show you other locations nearby, or not. Many of the locations I found ten years ago with my friend Tom have been further damaged and many have been wiped out by development. I don't have any intention in giving any specific directions to where they are located to people I hardly know and haven't even met face-to-face. BTW, California is the best state for horticulture, if I had the money to, I would move there. Also, it is not just you, but someone else you might tell, and so on. There have been plenty of previously damaged (by development, which were still perfectly fixable. In fact you can develop right around wetlands without causing much damage, but for some reason this is not how we do things in this country!) locations where the few surviving _Sarracenia_ were wiped out by collectors after some "newbies" were taken to or found out about them. Was it the new people, was it just bad luck? Since they don't have control over bad luck, the only other option is to control the location data. What would you feel if this was what happened to the locations you found and made known to a wider audience? You spent your time and energy to find them so someone could come in and remove many/all the plants helping to further damage the environment? Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of Christopher Hind Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:59 PM i just have not received any help in finding any sites. they're all kept from me as though its some big secret because (im assuming) they're afraid im going to dig them all up unless its some sort of clique. the person i knew who had the sites wasnt the slightest bit friendly to me from the get-go and ignored me all the other times i attempted to contact him. im really a very nice person but if someone gives me reason to be a d1ck in return, ill be one. when i wanted to see darlingtonia in northern cali i contacted hawkeye was totally cool about it he knew i wasnt going to rape nature and just a hobbyist fascinated with the idea of seeing it in the wild. in california it takes __SO MUCH EFFORT__ to grow CP we truely value what precious plants they are. its probably the very last state you would find people coming from who poach. ################### From: asplundii at gmail.com (Travis Wyman) Date: Thu Mar 31 06:14:22 2005 Subject: [CP] Pinguicula colimensis Barry, If I am interpreting your escription correctly then I don't think Beth need worry. Many of my "tight packed" winter rosettes break the way you are describing, elongated carnivorous leaves risind directly from the center. The carnivorous leaves will eventually reach normal size. Travis On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:00:06 -0800, Barry Rice wrote: > > Hey Listserve smarties, > > My lovely wife has a Pinguicula colimensis, which has been dormant for a few > months. It now appears to be coming out of dormancy, but not very > effectively. The rosette-center leaves are elongating only by a tiny amount, > while the leaves at the rosette edge are dying, one by one, two by two. Is > there anyone on this listserve with experience with this plant? > > Currently her terrarium has several nice Pings, including flowering P. > emarginata, flowering P. laueana (very nice!), Mexican species, P. ionantha, > etc., so she's pretty adept at growing them. So she's not a newbie. She only > feeds them with bugs---should she try some orchid fertilizer or something > like that? > > Barry ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Thu Mar 31 07:34:09 2005 Subject: [CP] Starting new bogs > And, (speaking of trades) Bob, I'm putting your > plants together -- Helies and Utrics for now, S. > flavas as soon as I can get to dividing them. I > still like you, no matter WHAT people are calling > you . You got my email. I havent found anyone who has made my blood boil like he has in years. ################### From: Killerplants at aol.com (Killerplants@aol.com) Date: Thu Mar 31 07:42:56 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 32 Sorry, sorry, somebody told me this is an April's Fool joke building up. Oh the shame! Cheers, Joe Griffin Lincoln, NE USA In a message dated 3/30/2005 9:52:29 P.M. Central Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: Message: 16 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hi All, I know the terra forums people and the list serve people do not see eye-to-eye all the time, but there is a very serious issue here: A young man from Ohio had his plants confiscated , because a judge ruled that CP were dangerous killers and were a threat to other animals. Does anybody have any ideas on how to fix this? The link is below. _http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin/ib312/ikonboard.cgi?s=379851e90b6c016557f32 e62315e02b5;act=ST;f=14;t=17320_ (http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin/ib312/ikonboard.cgi?s=379851e90b6c016557f32 e62315e02b5;act=ST;f=14;t=17320) I wish this was a April Fool's joke.. Cheers, Joe Griffin Lincoln, NE USA ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Thu Mar 31 08:21:36 2005 Subject: [CP] Illinois CPers Hey Laura, Lisa, etc., I'll second Lisa's comments on Volo Bog. A very nice place to see deep into a bog, although there are very few CP easily visible there (Some Utricularia macrorhiza, and a few Sarracenia purpurea that looked suspiciously as if they were planted by the boardwalk for your viewing....). I don't recall Drosera rotundifolia occurring there, but wouldn't be surprised. http://www.sarracenia.com/photos/habitats/habil03.jpg http://www.sarracenia.com/photos/habitats/habil04.jpg A great place to see POISON SUMAC, of course: http://www.sarracenia.com/photos/miscplant/tvern01.jpg While in the area, I suggest you look at the site...uh...I think it is called Moraine Hills State Park. I've been there and had a good time finding Utricularia macrorhiza and U. intermedia. http://www.sarracenia.com/photos/utricularia/umacr03.jpg The boardwalk, however, was in need of repair: http://www.sarracenia.com/photos/habitats/habil02.jpg A pretty place, however. Cheers Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org > > ------------------------------ > > From: "Lisa Koester" > Hi Laura and all... > > Volo bog is a great place! We had our herpetological society > picnic there > one year. > Group organization isn't all that difficult... pick a location (with > permission of course), date and time and the rest does itself > once a core > group is established. Problem is finding people willing to > drive. We're > spread thin, too..... ################### From: paul.temple at eds.com (Temple, Paul) Date: Thu Mar 31 14:23:13 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: CITES within the EU Rob Yes, I agree that CITES are really policeman. However, they can't hope to do their role unless they're scientific as well. For example, how can a CITES representative examine an orchid a plant and decide if it's one covered by CITES regs unless they can differentiate between different families, genera and even species? Just as real police now have to also be professionals and competent in other parallel functions (IT, banking, etc.), CITES must either be capable scientifically or be incompetent (at least, those that are front line). I'm not accusing them of being incompetent. I am saying they must be scientific so part of that community. However, if they are just policemen, I see their activities as even harder to explain. As I said, scientists who name new plants advertise the fact by publishing. It's trivial to determine if the plant named originated in the scientists place of work or country of which he is a national. If not, why isn't any attempt made to see if the publication used material that was legally obtained? It's easier than searching people at borders. >Certainly the gun-toting CITES officials in France did not seem to be >scientists! The French are a rule unto themselves! (Only an Englishman could say that. I dare say I'll regret it too - flame on anyone?) Still, how can I continue criticising CITES in the face of American legal people and the laws they create (dangerous CPs!). Talk about a country making a fool of itself (as if it needed to try!). Cheers Paul Imagination is more important than knowledge ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Thu Mar 31 16:51:47 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: on behalf of chris hind and killer plants two things, first i dont trsut this chris rind guy, he seems to "eager" to get site info and plus he is being incredibley rude! second cps dangeorus? o no! that drosera's digesting my baby! really get over it, this is like the people who sue fast food places for makeing them fat, in that case should i sue my town for crappy tap water that causes rot on all my plants? (except cps of course!) or how bout i sue wacko jacko for giveing me nightmares? lol. FREE CPS! get those poor plants put of jail! ----- Original Message ----- To: Cp@omnisterra.com > > Send Cp mailing list submissions to > Cp@omnisterra.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > Cp-request@omnisterra.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > Cp-owner@omnisterra.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Cp digest..." > > > CP Mailing list > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Starting new bogs (Ron Lane) > 2. Re: Starting new bogs (Christopher Hind) > 3. RE: Starting new bogs (Dave Evans) > 4. RE: Starting new bogs (Christopher Hind) > 5. Re: Starting new bogs (Robert Ziemer) > 6. Pinguicula colimensis (Barry Rice) > 7. RE: Starting new bogs (Dave Evans) > 8. Re: Starting new bogs (Christopher Hind) > 9. RE: Starting new bogs (Chris Teichreb) > 10. RE: Pinguicula colimensis (Chris Teichreb) > 11. RE: Starting new bogs (Christopher Hind) > 12. Re: Pinguicula colimensis (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) > 13. Re: [SPAM: 4.000] Re: [CP] Pinguicula colimensis (Mikala Graham) > 14. Re: (Killerplants@aol.com) > 15. Pinguicula colimensis (Tim Vaughan) > 16. Re: Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 29 (Killerplants@aol.com) > 17. Illinois CPers (WildLifeGardener) > 18. RE: Illinois CPers (Lisa Koester) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:37:06 -0500 > From: Ron Lane > Subject: [CP] Starting new bogs > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <424B0DF2.4050500@earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > < possible because of all the stuff i keep hearing >> > > Chris - please don't do this . Well intentioned people > can cause major harm. If a re-introduction is well researched and > documented, obviously it can be a good thing. > > However, how would you feel if you started a new bog w/ S. leuco that > happened to be 1/4 mi from a unique stand of S. oreophila? Over time, > the S. leuco pollen may pollute the S. oreo gene pool and possibly have > us lose those genes forever. This is one example of how well-intentioned > people can cause bad things to happen (Barry & others can probably > provide many real-life examples). > > Ron Lane > RL7836@earthlink.net > > > Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 06:36:40 -0800 (PST) > From: Christopher Hind > Subject: Re: [CP] anyone have any south florida site locations > To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > Message-ID: <20050330143641.63961.qmail@web54101.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > do you know how bad i would feel if i took a plant and > it died in captivity when it was thriving so > beautifully in the wild? > > Not only that but i intend to start new bogs down here > wherever possible because of all the stuff i keep > hearing about land development demolishing stands of > sars and such and it breaks my heart. besides, birds > would eventually put it there anyway. > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 13:00:11 -0800 (PST) > From: Christopher Hind > Subject: Re: [CP] Starting new bogs > To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > Message-ID: <20050330210012.99721.qmail@web54102.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > Chris - please don't do this . Well > > intentioned people can cause major harm. If a re-introduction is well > > researched and documented, obviously it can be a good thing. > > > > However, how would you feel if you started a new bog > > w/ S. leuco that happened to be 1/4 mi from a unique stand of S. > > oreophila? Over time, the S. leuco pollen may pollute the S. oreo gene > > pool and possibly have us lose those genes forever. This is one example of > > how well-intentioned people can cause bad things to happen (Barry & > > others can probably provide many real-life examples). > > well, if noone tells me where anything is i simply > have to assume it doesnt exist. besides, we have oreo > in cultivation. if we dont start seeding/planting > there wont be any cps existing out of cultivation. > besides there cant be much mixing of the species, > nothing really has changed evolution wise, they still > have the same pollenators, same environments. mixing > of the genes occurs in nature already. > > if theres one thing about me, dont present yourself as > a roadblock or barrier. i'm a pretty reasonable person > but i LOVE a great challenge. noone tells me what i > cant do. plus its like an easter egg hunt. i was > always good at those =) > > Bob, the p. pumila site on big pine key. I WILL find > it. =) > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:41:27 -0500 > From: "Dave Evans" > Subject: RE: [CP] Starting new bogs > To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" > Message-ID: <000901c53571$3a4871d0$22aba8c0@ad.ess.rutgers.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Dear Chris, > > > This is not true. Please learn some more about _Sarracenia_ before > you assume you know it all. > > _P. pumila_ is not in a "hidden" location. Your comments are odd > sounding to me... And you wonder why people don't want to tell you where > stuff is located. > > > Thanks, > Dave Evans > New Jersey, USA > www.Dangerousplants.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On Behalf > Of Christopher Hind > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:00 PM > To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > Subject: Re: [CP] Starting new bogs > > > Chris - please don't do this . Well > > intentioned people can cause major harm. If a re-introduction is well > > researched and documented, obviously it can be a good thing. > > well, if noone tells me where anything is i simply > have to assume it doesnt exist. besides, we have oreo > in cultivation. if we dont start seeding/planting > there wont be any cps existing out of cultivation. > besides there cant be much mixing of the species, > nothing really has changed evolution wise, they still > have the same pollenators, same environments. mixing > of the genes occurs in nature already. > > Bob, the p. pumila site on big pine key. I WILL find > it. =) > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 13:59:16 -0800 (PST) > From: Christopher Hind > Subject: RE: [CP] Starting new bogs > To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > Message-ID: <20050330215916.341.qmail@web54106.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > This is not true. Please learn some more about > > _Sarracenia_ before > > you assume you know it all. > > > > _P. pumila_ is not in a "hidden" location. Your > > comments are odd > > sounding to me... And you wonder why people don't > > want to tell you where > > stuff is located. > > the whole situation is odd to me as well. understand > seeing ANY cp in the wild short of utrics is > impressive to me. im not concerned at all about > 'hidden' locations. i just have not received any help > in finding any sites. they're all kept from me as > though its some big secret because (im assuming) > they're afraid im going to dig them all up unless its > some sort of clique. the person i knew who had the > sites wasnt the slightest bit friendly to me from the > get-go and ignored me all the other times i attempted > to contact him. im really a very nice person but if > someone gives me reason to be a d1ck in return, ill be > one. > > when i wanted to see darlingtonia in northern cali i > contacted hawkeye was totally cool about it he knew i > wasnt going to rape nature and just a hobbyist > fascinated with the idea of seeing it in the wild. > > in california it takes __SO MUCH EFFORT__ to grow CP > we truely value what precious plants they are. its > probably the very last state you would find people > coming from who poach. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 14:27:07 -0800 > From: Robert Ziemer > Subject: Re: [CP] Starting new bogs > To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > Message-ID: <424B27BB.50507@humboldt.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > > in california it takes __SO MUCH EFFORT__ to grow CP > > we truely value what precious plants they are. > > What?! Because of the generally mild winters, California is probably the > easiest of places to grow CP. > > > we truely value what precious plants they are. its > > probably the very last state you would find people > > coming from who poach. > > Get real! We Californians have one of the most "get something for > nothing" attitudes. If it is loose, we take it. If it is precious, grab > it first before someone else gets it. > > -Bob- > from California > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:00:06 -0800 > From: "Barry Rice" > Subject: [CP] Pinguicula colimensis > To: > Cc: Peter D'Amato , 'Elizabeth Salvia' > > Message-ID: <200503302300.j2UN06Th027788@frankfurt.ucdavis.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > Hey Listserve smarties, > > My lovely wife has a Pinguicula colimensis, which has been dormant for a few > months. It now appears to be coming out of dormancy, but not very > effectively. The rosette-center leaves are elongating only by a tiny amount, > while the leaves at the rosette edge are dying, one by one, two by two. Is > there anyone on this listserve with experience with this plant? > > Currently her terrarium has several nice Pings, including flowering P. > emarginata, flowering P. laueana (very nice!), Mexican species, P. ionantha, > etc., so she's pretty adept at growing them. So she's not a newbie. She only > feeds them with bugs---should she try some orchid fertilizer or something > like that? > > Barry > > Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. > Director of Conservation Programs > The International Carnivorous Plant Society > http://www.carnivorousplants.org > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 18:08:52 -0500 > From: "Dave Evans" > Subject: RE: [CP] Starting new bogs > To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" > Message-ID: <000401c5357d$70825160$22aba8c0@ad.ess.rutgers.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Ok Man, > > > Now I understand where you are coming from better. I don't know of > too many big locations that are not already well known, but I have located > some on my own. Have you been out looking any other sites, other than those > you had directions to? > That is basically how these plants are located by CP'ers. In order > to see good locations for _Sarracenia_, I travel down five states and start > looking for them. There is no clique. After returning to the same places > for several years, people get to know you and if they like you they might > just show you other locations nearby, or not. Many of the locations I found > ten years ago with my friend Tom have been further damaged and many have > been wiped out by development. I don't have any intention in giving any > specific directions to where they are located to people I hardly know and > haven't even met face-to-face. > > BTW, California is the best state for horticulture, if I had the > money to, I would move there. > > Also, it is not just you, but someone else you might tell, and so > on. There have been plenty of previously damaged (by development, which > were still perfectly fixable. In fact you can develop right around wetlands > without causing much damage, but for some reason this is not how we do > things in this country!) locations where the few surviving _Sarracenia_ were > wiped out by collectors after some "newbies" were taken to or found out > about them. Was it the new people, was it just bad luck? Since they don't > have control over bad luck, the only other option is to control the location > data. What would you feel if this was what happened to the locations you > found and made known to a wider audience? You spent your time and energy to > find them so someone could come in and remove many/all the plants helping to > further damage the environment? > > > Dave Evans > New Jersey, USA > www.Dangerousplants.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On Behalf > Of Christopher Hind > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:59 PM > > i just have not received any help > in finding any sites. they're all kept from me as > though its some big secret because (im assuming) > they're afraid im going to dig them all up unless its > some sort of clique. the person i knew who had the > sites wasnt the slightest bit friendly to me from the > get-go and ignored me all the other times i attempted > to contact him. im really a very nice person but if > someone gives me reason to be a d1ck in return, ill be > one. > > when i wanted to see darlingtonia in northern cali i > contacted hawkeye was totally cool about it he knew i > wasnt going to rape nature and just a hobbyist > fascinated with the idea of seeing it in the wild. > > in california it takes __SO MUCH EFFORT__ to grow CP > we truely value what precious plants they are. its > probably the very last state you would find people > coming from who poach. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:26:19 -0800 (PST) > From: Christopher Hind > Subject: Re: [CP] Starting new bogs > To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > Message-ID: <20050330232619.37273.qmail@web54108.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > What?! Because of the generally mild winters, > > California is probably the easiest of places to grow CP. > > Feel free to move there, pay exorbinant rents like > $1281 for 650 sq ft without a porch (which i was > paying) while watching your plants dessicate INSIDE > YOUR HOUSE because the air is THAT dry. > > > Get real! We Californians have one of the most "get > > something for nothing" attitudes. If it is loose, we take it. If > > it is precious, grab it first before someone else gets it. > > do you go to the LACPS meetings? i did before i moved > out here. californians are much much more consciously > aware of the idea of conservation. i know because i > myself am one as well. there are people here who would > think nothing of taking a plant from the wild. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:29:25 -0800 > From: "Chris Teichreb" > Subject: RE: [CP] Starting new bogs > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > Mr. Hind's comments smack of a hairy humanoid that lives under a bridge. If > anyone is scratching their heads, do a google search for trolling. > > Chris > > > > From: "Dave Evans" > > Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > > To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" > > Subject: RE: [CP] Starting new bogs > > Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:41:27 -0500 > > > > Dear Chris, > > > > > > This is not true. Please learn some more about _Sarracenia_ before > > you assume you know it all. > > > > _P. pumila_ is not in a "hidden" location. Your comments are odd > > sounding to me... And you wonder why people don't want to tell you where > > stuff is located. > > > > > > Thanks, > > Dave Evans > > New Jersey, USA > > www.Dangerousplants.com > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On Behalf > > Of Christopher Hind > > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:00 PM > > To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > > Subject: Re: [CP] Starting new bogs > > > > > Chris - please don't do this . Well > > > intentioned people > > > can cause major harm. If a re-introduction is well > > > researched and > > > documented, obviously it can be a good thing. > > > > well, if noone tells me where anything is i simply > > have to assume it doesnt exist. besides, we have oreo > > in cultivation. if we dont start seeding/planting > > there wont be any cps existing out of cultivation. > > besides there cant be much mixing of the species, > > nothing really has changed evolution wise, they still > > have the same pollenators, same environments. mixing > > of the genes occurs in nature already. > > > > Bob, the p. pumila site on big pine key. I WILL find > > it. =) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cp mailing list > > Cp@omnisterra.com > > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:37:43 -0800 > From: "Chris Teichreb" > Subject: RE: [CP] Pinguicula colimensis > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > Hi Barry, > > I've grown this plant in the past, and never had any problems with it. > Seemed to be a pretty easy grower. However, I have had similar symptoms on > other pings. I tried all sorts of potential solutions to no avail; > repotting, light fertilizer, increased humidity, etc. (not necessarily in > that order, repotting is fairly extreme). The only saving grace was the > abundant winter leaves that are so easy to start new plants from. I think > that these plants do have a finite lifespan, and once it's up, it's up! > > Sorry that doesn't solve your problems. Just a supportive note I guess ;-)! > > Chris > > > > > > > Hey Listserve smarties, > > > > My lovely wife has a Pinguicula colimensis, which has been dormant for a few > > months. It now appears to be coming out of dormancy, but not very > > effectively. The rosette-center leaves are elongating only by a tiny amount, > > while the leaves at the rosette edge are dying, one by one, two by two. Is > > there anyone on this listserve with experience with this plant? > > > > Currently her terrarium has several nice Pings, including flowering P. > > emarginata, flowering P. laueana (very nice!), Mexican species, P. ionantha, > > etc., so she's pretty adept at growing them. So she's not a newbie. She only > > feeds them with bugs---should she try some orchid fertilizer or something > > like that? > > > > Barry > > > > Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. > > Director of Conservation Programs > > The International Carnivorous Plant Society > > http://www.carnivorousplants.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cp mailing list > > Cp@omnisterra.com > > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:40:40 -0800 (PST) > From: Christopher Hind > Subject: RE: [CP] Starting new bogs > To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > Message-ID: <20050330234040.74822.qmail@web54101.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > Mr. Hind's comments smack of a hairy humanoid that > > lives under a bridge. If anyone is scratching their heads, do a > > google search > > for trolling. > > i wish i were trolling. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 19:13:12 EST > From: HmrTheHrmt@aol.com > Subject: Re: [CP] Pinguicula colimensis > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <146.41d84539.2f7c9a98@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > > Since it's a plant being grown by a lovely wife, it should really be named > Pinguicula comelyensis. > > > In a message dated 3/30/2005 3:00:39 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > bamrice@ucdavis.edu writes: > > My lovely wife has a Pinguicula colimensis, > > > > > > > > TTFN > > > Hamir the Hermit > > > "We're busy doing nothing, working all day through, > We're trying to find lots of things not to do. > We're busy going nowhere, isn't it such a crime? > We'd like to be unhappy, but we never do have the time." > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:38:11 +1200 > From: Mikala Graham > Subject: Re: [SPAM: 4.000] Re: [CP] Pinguicula colimensis > To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > Message-ID: <424B4673.4060301@student.canterbury.ac.nz> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > 'drumroll' to support great joke :) > > HmrTheHrmt@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > Since it's a plant being grown by a lovely wife, it should really > > be named Pinguicula comelyensis. In a message dated 3/30/2005 > > 3:00:39 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, bamrice@ucdavis.edu writes: > > > > My lovely wife has a Pinguicula colimensis, TTFN > > > > > > Hamir the Hermit > > > > > > "We're busy doing nothing, working all day through, > > We're trying to find lots of things not to do. > > We're busy going nowhere, isn't it such a crime? > > We'd like to be unhappy, but we never do have the time." > > _______________________________________________ > > Cp mailing list > > Cp@omnisterra.com > > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 19:38:16 EST > From: Killerplants@aol.com > Subject: [CP] Re: > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <1df.38b1e91c.2f7ca078@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Oh Dear, > No, I must have not conveyed this correctly. I was merely stating that I > did not see a problem of one person who lives in the UK donating specimens of > S. oreophila to a botanical garden in that same country. > > Cheers, > > Joe Griffin > Lincoln, NE USA > > > In a message dated 3/30/2005 2:02:41 P.M. Central Standard Time, > Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: > > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 22:55:42 -0500 > From: "Dave Evans" > Subject: RE: [CP] Re: > To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" > Message-ID: <000001c534dc$584d7d50$22aba8c0@ad.ess.rutgers.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Dear Joe, > > > No, it is not legal to send CITES listed plants to other countries > whether they be given or sold without paying the government their fees for > the CITES permits. I think you are mixing two separate laws into one. > CITES is an international treaty and the member countries are required to do > all the paper work (make permits for trade available) and bust folks who do > not have papers for their imported plants. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On Behalf > Of killerplants@aol.com > Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 5:38 PM > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Subject: [CP] Re: > > I'm lost on this one. Isn't it legal to give specimens of S. oreophila, > especially if they are from seed-raised specimens over seas? > > Cheers, > > Joe Griffin > Lincoln, NE USA > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:52:55 -0800 > From: "Tim Vaughan" > Subject: [CP] Pinguicula colimensis > To: > Message-ID: <005d01c5358b$fbd7fe50$3fc2d642@S0000999999> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Yes, do what Chris said and pull off a few of those small leaves > for extra plants. What's happening to your wife's plants is > basically what is happening to mine right now, on the central coast > of CA, although more advanced since mine are in an open greenhouse, > and just barely starting to hint at breaking dormancy. I find them > a fairly easy grower, and it sounds like her's are coming along > normally. > > Take a dozen or so of the small leaves and put them on an inch or > two of any CP substrate in one of those tupperware type containers > you get for 3 for a dollar, and put the lid on. Leave it in a > fairly shaded or coolish bright light place and within a couple > weeks she'll have plenty extra. Next year if you keep them really > dry during dormancy they will probably come out of dormancy more > vigorously. I kept mine with the gypsicola, macrophylla etc.. this > year, and the plants look fine. > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 20:23:18 EST > From: Killerplants@aol.com > Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 29 > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Hi All, > > I know the terra forums people and the list serve people do not see > eye-to-eye all the time, but there is a very serious issue here: > A young man from Ohio had his plants confiscated , because a judge ruled > that CP were dangerous killers and were a threat to other animals. > Does anybody have any ideas on how to fix this? The link is below. > > > _http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin/ib312/ikonboard.cgi?s=379851e90b6c016557f32 > e62315e02b5;act=ST;f=14;t=17320_ > (http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin/ib312/ikonboard.cgi?s=379851e90b6c016557f32e62315e02b5;act=ST;f=14;t=17320) > > I wish this was a April Fool's joke.. > > Cheers, > > Joe Griffin > Lincoln, NE USA > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 21:47:07 -0600 (Central Standard Time) > From: "WildLifeGardener" > Subject: [CP] Illinois CPers > To: > Message-ID: <424B72BB.000003.02300@D7GMRC11> > Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hey Chris, photos on their way to you per your request and looking forward > to a visit from you and your wife this coming spring or summer. I have young > kids so bring the grandchildren if you so desire. It will be fun. I actually > am looking forward to anyone interested in CPs visiting. I don't know if you > are interested but look up the Volo Bog in Google. They have a wonderful > site and that bog is only about 45 minutes from my house. If you and your > wife would be interested in visiting that State Park, I would be more than > happy to accompany you. > > Hey Lisa, I've got a lot of things that went "poof" over here. Squirrels > were the poofers that sent my CPs to CP heaven but there were other > contributing critters. I'm convinced they are organizing out there and > planning an all out assault on the replacement CPs I am buying and have been > gifted. I'm preparing for battle here this coming fall is about all I can > say. As far as a CP group that would be local, it would be great. Sadly, I > truly don't have the time to devote to organization of such a group. I wish > I had the time to do such a group justice however I am spread too thin as it > is. Have you found the International Carnivorous Plant Site yet? Try this > link, you won't be sorry- > http://www.carnivorousplants.org/ > Here's one of my favorites for photos- > http://www.humboldt.edu/~rrz7001/ > I'll hear from you in a few weeks after you surface. Hopefully your eyeballs > don't fall too far out of your head from clicking on one plant photo after > the next there. I can't visit that site without getting stuck there for at > least an hour. My girlfriend and I sat here at my computer a few weeks ago > and our husbands thought we were nuts because we were at that site for 3 > hours. > > Take care, > Laura > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 21:50:33 -0600 > From: "Lisa Koester" > Subject: RE: [CP] Illinois CPers > To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" > Message-ID: <410-22005343135033188@earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > Hi Laura and all... > > Volo bog is a great place! We had our herpetological society picnic there > one year. > Group organization isn't all that difficult... pick a location (with > permission of course), date and time and the rest does itself once a core > group is established. Problem is finding people willing to drive. We're > spread thin, too..... > > I was just telling Chris that we'd lost electrical power for four months > this past year... and were running all our turtle filters, heaters and > stuff off the six remaining outlets in the apartment. Of course this > happened right after I ordered my pings and drosera :-( > > But we shall re-vamp and come back stronger! The I.C.P.S. is indeed > awesome! I've finished many a cup of coffee infront of it. lol Great > minds, eh? > > Lisa > > Lisa Koester > The Chicago Turtle Club, > A Great Place for Animals, Information, Fun and Friends! > http://www.geocities.com/~chicagoturtle > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > End of Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 32 > ********************************** -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Thu Mar 31 16:56:47 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: on behalf of chris hind and killer plants > two things, first i dont trsut this chris rind guy, > he seems to "eager" to get site info and plus he is > being incredibley rude! second cps dangeorus? o no! > that drosera's digesting my baby! really get over > it, this is like the people who sue fast food places > for makeing them fat, in that case should i sue my > town for crappy tap water that causes rot on all my > plants? (except cps of course!) or how bout i sue > wacko jacko for giveing me nightmares? lol. FREE > CPS! get those poor plants put of jail! i dont trust this jon mungeam guy, he can't spell. Chris Hind Homestead, FL ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Thu Mar 31 17:13:33 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 29 Yes, it's the classic heritage variety T. "J. Wyndham." I'll try for a cutting, but no guarantees. The plants have been very cranky of late. In a message dated 3/31/2005 4:00:12 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, writserv@nbnet.nb.ca writes: Don't suppose you could send me a cutting of one of those triffids if different from my cv's T. "A.T. Hun" and T. "C. Manson"? TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: ashort01 at telus.net (Andrew Short) Date: Thu Mar 31 17:18:05 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 29 Careful Hamir, I got a cutting once from that variety, and it took me about seven months to heal, and multiple skin grafts. Andrew ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 5:13 PM > > > Yes, it's the classic heritage variety T. "J. Wyndham." I'll try for a > cutting, but no guarantees. The plants have been very cranky of late. > > > In a message dated 3/31/2005 4:00:12 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > writserv@nbnet.nb.ca writes: > > Don't suppose you could send me a cutting of one of those triffids if > different from my cv's T. "A.T. Hun" and T. "C. Manson"? > > > > > > > > TTFN > > > Hamir the Hermit > > > "We're busy doing nothing, working all day through, > We're trying to find lots of things not to do. > We're busy going nowhere, isn't it such a crime? > We'd like to be unhappy, but we never do have the time." > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: DougWitkowski at netscape.net (DougWitkowski@netscape.net) Date: Thu Mar 31 18:35:30 2005 Subject: [CP] My question Drat!! I finally put in a question that seems fairly inteligent (circulating water through a bog) but everybody is busy arguing with a person of questionable....well.....interesting attributes. Sigh! Let's get back to some growing concerns. Doug W Dripping Springs, TX __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Thu Mar 31 18:50:31 2005 Subject: [CP] Starting new bogs Darnation. I've lost my last claim to fame. In a message dated 3/31/2005 7:34:57 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, cixcell@yahoo.com writes: You got my email. I havent found anyone who has made my blood boil like he has in years. TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Thu Mar 31 18:51:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 32 Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...... In a message dated 3/31/2005 7:43:19 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, Killerplants@aol.com writes: Sorry, sorry, somebody told me this is an April's Fool joke building up. Oh the shame! TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Thu Mar 31 19:23:40 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: on behalf of chris hind and killer plants Yes, it's very hard to put any faith in someone who's merely a peeling from a fruit. In a message dated 3/31/2005 4:52:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, z5guy@kittymail.com writes: i dont trsut this chris rind guy TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Thu Mar 31 19:30:15 2005 Subject: [CP] New Question Doug; One of my growing methods is what I refer to as a "table-top" bog. Basically, I've put together a water table in which all my pots stand, water flowing from one end to the other, and thence into a 50 gallon drum, where a small pump sends the water back to the beginning. This method works well for all my plants, Nepenthes included. I think the only ones that don't work really well with this method are the Mexican Pings, which seem to merely tolerate it. But all the rest really dig it. In a message dated 3/29/2005 12:56:17 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, DougWitkowski@netscape.net writes: OK...so it seems if you put "question" in the subject line, you won't get sensored and rejected. Has anyone tried circulating water through their bog. We know that most bogs are not stagnant but have a very slow flow through them. Is this water anerobic or does it contain some O2? Do the CP's prefer a side of the bog where the water enters? I have been thinking of using a solar powered pump to pull water off the bottom of the bog and run it on the ground at the high end. I know I will incurr a bigger evaporation loss (especially in Central Texas), but will it i mprove the growing conditions? Will the peat break down too fast? Any ideas out there? Thanks! TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Thu Mar 31 21:35:04 2005 Subject: [CP] My question well ,since no one else is jumping in... i'd think circulating water through the medium would prolong its usability, since it wouldn't have a chance to get anaerobic. i'd think you'd have yourself a nice living, thriving substrate. i'm just wondering about filtration (how often the filter would clog and need clearing) and how hard acidic water would be on the pump and tubing. my uninformed opinion. Gary Kong DougWitkowski@netscape.net wrote: >Drat!! > >I finally put in a question that seems fairly inteligent (circulating water through a bog) but everybody is busy arguing with a person of questionable....well.....interesting attributes. Sigh! > >Let's get back to some growing concerns. > >Doug W >Dripping Springs, TX > >__________________________________________________________________ >Switch to Netscape Internet Service. >As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register > >Netscape. Just the Net You Need. > >New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer >Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. >Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: marsintenn at hotmail.com (marya schultz) Date: Fri Apr 1 00:46:49 2005 Subject: [CP] hello, my name is mars yes, mars. i've recently become enamoured with carnivorous plants and have been happily devouring my newly purchased copy of savage garden. for years, i have looked longingly at the venus fly traps in lowes only to decide against them because they always look so sickly. recently, i've discovered many reputible websites that specialize in cp's and to my delight, many of these plants are reasonably priced. i have been trying to decide which lovely little drosera and sarracinia i would like to grow and have been just overwhelmed by all the choices. if there is anyone out there who lives in a climate close to or just similar to mine, i would love to hear your suggestions on what would do best outdoors here. i live about 15 miles east of knoxville, tn and to say our weather is wierd would be an understatement. i've already told my bf that we simply must go to the botanical gardens in atlanta (just another thing we need to go to in atlanta, the list grows again). so if there is anyone nearby, i would love to e-mail back a forth a bit, if you can tolerate a beginner. mars marsintenn@hotmail.com "every man and every woman is a star" ################### From: guenda at casadelcuscinetto.net (Guendalina Castignoli) Date: Fri Apr 1 03:17:50 2005 Subject: [CP] Triphyophyllum peltatum Hi at all, I'm searching notice about Triphyophyllum peltatum, I know that Jan Schlauer has done some studies and he has documented how the plant grow. Does anyone know news or links or other about this plant? Guendalina Castignoli Italy ################### From: barry_burch at excite.com (Barry Burch) Date: Fri Apr 1 05:09:08 2005 Subject: [CP] CP of Australia Vols 1,2 & 3 on Ebay Carnivorous Plants of Australia Vols 1,2 & 3 on Ebay. Anyone have a copy of just Vol 1 they do not need? Barry _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ################### From: MHowlett at hcp4.net (Howlett, Mike) Date: Fri Apr 1 06:36:40 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Capitalism at its...finest? -----Original Message----- Message: 1 To: "'Cp@omnisterra.com'" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain <> Paul - IMHO, and as others have already stated, this is nothing more than capitalism at its ugliest. Either 1),someone is pulling one huge April Fool's joke, trying to make a name for themselves (a form of capitalism IMHO again), or 2) the authorities are trying to make some money the old-fashioned way: take it by force. Since I don't know which of these is correct, I refuse to get drawn in to this thread any further. Either way it's ridiculous, and I only hope that this is some kind of joke. Careful what you say about us Americans, or I'll send the Bobbies to YOUR house...LOL! ; ) <> Yes it is now, isn't it? Either way on this one, someone has an amazing sense of imagination... Happy April Fool's Day, everyone. May it prove to be only humorous and not malicious! Mike Howlett Naturalist, Herpetoculturist & Carnivorous Plant Enthusiast Jesse H. Jones Park & Nature Center 20634 Kenswick Drive Humble, TX 77338 281-446-8588 mhowlett@hcp4.net www.hcp4.net/jones ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Fri Apr 1 06:47:15 2005 Subject: [CP] My question Hi Doug, Yes, your e-mail did sort of get lost in the fray. It always seems that we cp'ers get antsy in the spring, and some topic of debate that starts out related to cp ends up going way off topic with people saying they are unsubscribing forever, etc. etc. We seem to be creatures of habit! I see you got a couple of replies. I like Hamir's suggestion. While I have never bothered circulating water through my bog, I do know of growers who circulated water through their pots of Darlingtonia for cooling purposes. They would stick a bunch of ice water and ice cubes in a sump (insulated styrofoam cooler) with a pond pump the pumped it to the surface of the Darlingtonia. Overflow would make its way back to the sump, and the Darlingtonia were happy. My plants in my bog were always happy and grew quite well without any circulation. Not sure if they would have been better off with some trickling water. All I would do was occasionally flood the bog, which presumably washed out some of the accumulated salts/nutrients and introduced some oxygen to lower layers. Similar to heavy rainfall effects. I've seen many many cp along lakeshores where there basically is no flow (perhaps some groundwater), so I don't think it is as big a deal as you might think. Still, I'd be interested in hearing the results if you try it! Cheers! Chris >From: DougWitkowski@netscape.net >Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group >To: Cp@omnisterra.com >Subject: [CP] My question >Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 21:34:56 -0500 > >Drat!! > >I finally put in a question that seems fairly inteligent (circulating water >through a bog) but everybody is busy arguing with a person of >questionable....well.....interesting attributes. Sigh! > >Let's get back to some growing concerns. > >Doug W >Dripping Springs, TX > >__________________________________________________________________ >Switch to Netscape Internet Service. >As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at >http://isp.netscape.com/register > >Netscape. Just the Net You Need. > >New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer >Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. >Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Fri Apr 1 06:49:52 2005 Subject: [CP] Triphyophyllum peltatum Hi Guendalina, Are you a member of the ICPS? There was, as you mention, an article cowritten by Jan a couple of years back on Triphyophyllum. I know bestcarnivorousplants.com had some photos of this plant as well. Other than that, information seems to be sparse. Perhaps the botanical garden where the plants were being grown (and I think tissue cultured, if I remember correctly) has some more information. Good luck! Chris > >Hi at all, > >I'm searching notice about Triphyophyllum peltatum, >I know that Jan Schlauer has done some studies and he >has documented how the plant grow. >Does anyone know news or links or other about this plant? > >Guendalina Castignoli >Italy > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: Killerplants at aol.com (Killerplants@aol.com) Date: Fri Apr 1 06:51:49 2005 Subject: [CP] Here is the confession.... If you don't care about this, skip it as it's a long post. Well, I know what some of you are expecting. Before I get to that I want to make a little statement. When I first posted this topic, I never expected how many people would show their concern for me or my plants. I also never expected how far some members here would go to help me. Almost everybody offered to replaced my plants, Somebody offered me their legal service for free, and one member even offered to send me a cash gift to pay for a lawyer, and that doesn?t even start to list all the offers I got. Let me tell you nobody will ever convince me that there is a better group of people any where in the world that is better then the people right here at Terrafourms. You guys showed me that I really do have some true friends. People that I didn?t even know has offered to send me money, new plants, or to temporarily take my pets and plants. How can I thank you guys for all that you offered to do for me. When I started this I was sure that the people that?s been around for a while, would think it was a joke. That?s what I wanted to happen. I wanted this to be a joke for the kids here, that?s all. I never expected that so many would really believe me. I never even wanted it to get to the level that it did. I truly thought that anybody that remembered the D.capensis last year would laugh as soon as they read it. I really wanted to end this a week and a half ago. After I saw how everybody was behind me I just didn?t feel like going through with this anymore. How can you pull a joke on people that are trying to help you. It was real hard. I also didn?t want to call it off because there was people that had helped me set this up and they were looking forward to see how it would end. So I decided that I should just go on with the joke. If this upsets anybody I?m truly sorry. All I was trying to do was to make some people laugh. I didn't do this by myself, I had a lot of people helping me. So I can?t take all the credit/blame. I had help planning this, and help pulling it off. I? m not going to name those people, incase they don?t want to be known. If they want to come forward then they will. Again I want to thank every one of you that offered to help me. You?ll never know how much it has meant to me. If you ever need anything, you?ll know you can call on me. I just hope that you have as happy April Fools day as you have made mine. This year I guess the joke was on me. ################### From: Killerplants at aol.com (Killerplants@aol.com) Date: Fri Apr 1 06:58:50 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: My question Hi Doug, Sorry nobody has answered your question. I would try it as it sounds like a great experiment and might make a great future article for CPN. I think most people do the water circulating thing by making the bog higher on one end and lower on the other, but your idea has merit for those of us that may have a small space and could not slant a bog at all or without ALOT of work. Cheers, Joe Griffin Lincoln, NE USA In a message dated 3/31/2005 9:25:00 P.M. Central Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: Message: 6 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <7E9ECDF6.37381FA8.735302C3@netscape.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Drat!! I finally put in a question that seems fairly inteligent (circulating water through a bog) but everybody is busy arguing with a person of questionable....well.....interesting attributes. Sigh! Let's get back to some growing concerns. Doug W Dripping Springs, TX ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Fri Apr 1 07:12:38 2005 Subject: [CP] rain Jeez, i am in the local library in NW Florida near Eglin. It is hailing and lightning outside. Along with 11 inches of rain in less then 12 hours. My bog visits have been cut short by two of 6 places. Oh well. The other 4 places have been wonderful. Amazing all the plants. So far this trip I have seen: S. flava var rugelii (sp?) S. flava var. ornata S. flava other var. and inter-species hybrids S. leucophylla S. mooreii of many many types S. rubra ssp. wherryi S. psitticenia S. purpurea ssp. venosa var. burkeii A few hybrids with S. psitticenia D. filiformis ssp. tracyi D. filiformis ssp. filiformis (possible, will Id from Picture later) D. capillaris (also huge ones, about 7 inches across) D. intermedia (also huge including 7 inches across) U. inflata U. subulata I don't think I missed any. ################### From: guenda at casadelcuscinetto.net (Guendalina Castignoli) Date: Fri Apr 1 07:24:27 2005 Subject: [CP] Triphyophyllum peltatum Hi Chris, yes, I'm a member of ICPS now. I have read an article written by Jan and others in March 1999, but I haven't seen the photos on the web-site bestcarnivorousplants.com yet. Thank you for this information and for all the rest. I'll try to have information from Wurzburg. Guendalina ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 4:49 PM > Hi Guendalina, > > Are you a member of the ICPS? There was, as you mention, an article > cowritten by Jan a couple of years back on Triphyophyllum. I know > bestcarnivorousplants.com had some photos of this plant as well. Other than > that, information seems to be sparse. Perhaps the botanical garden where > the plants were being grown (and I think tissue cultured, if I remember > correctly) has some more information. > > Good luck! > > Chris > > > > >Hi at all, > > > >I'm searching notice about Triphyophyllum peltatum, > >I know that Jan Schlauer has done some studies and he > >has documented how the plant grow. > >Does anyone know news or links or other about this plant? > > > >Guendalina Castignoli > >Italy > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Cp mailing list > >Cp@omnisterra.com > >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: RL7836 at earthlink.net (Ron Lane) Date: Fri Apr 1 08:17:29 2005 Subject: [CP] Circulating water through a bog While this seems to be an intriguing question (many natural bogs in the south are in seeps with constantly circulating water), before my bog was overgrown (and shaded), the Sarrs grew like amazing weeds. If the circulating water isn't solving a problem, it would appear to be a lot of trouble for potentially little gain. Otoh, circulating cool water for a Darlingtonia bog (in many parts of the country), would solve a serious problem. While it's fairly simple to circulate the water, how does one cool it in a cost-effective / simple manner? I haven't been willing to put in the effort, but the best low cost solution I've heard was freezing 2 large (2 or 3 liter) soda bottles of water. Hang one of the 2 frozen bottles over the Cobra Lily each morning and dripping condensation from the bottle will cool it enough to keep the plant happy. Replace the next day w/ the other bottle. I don't think it would pass the Martha Stewart beautiful garden test but it seems like it would work. All the best, Ron Lane RL7836@earthlink.net Central NJ, USA Message: 6 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <7E9ECDF6.37381FA8.735302C3@netscape.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Drat!! I finally put in a question that seems fairly inteligent (circulating water through a bog) but everybody is busy arguing with a person of questionable....well.....interesting attributes. Sigh! Let's get back to some growing concerns. Doug W Dripping Springs, TX ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Fri Apr 1 08:21:39 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: flamewar with Chris Hey Everyone, Just to put in my two cents. Dave is right that riding down the road looking out the window is the best plan for spotting cps (except S. rubra ssp. wherryi wich has 1 inch flowers and is very small (as I recently learned)). So that's your best bet. Lots of loacation plants (popular ones anyway) have well unexact locations. Of course most loactions don't exist anymore but if you look at a topography map of the area you can figure out what terraine most cps grow in. Well Sarrs anyway and look there. Lowland areas and such. If you are determined to find plants you will and no one will be able to stop you. I know that most people on this list don't trust eachother (Don't resopond you all know its true). But a few friends that you probibly have will trust you enough to give you town names. At least you will have a starting point. Correct me if I am wrong but aren't you talking about a bog in South Florida? It seems to me that no Sarrs grow there. And anyway if you were to grow leucos in a bog 1/4 mile form oreos. It would not matter if that bog was natural or not since in the very unlikely event that they flowered at the same time and a bee traveled a 1/4 mile to the oreos and happened to pollinate the flower at the exactly right time you would still get hte hybrid seed. I was looking up oreo sites the other day and I think I read that at least some of them have their flowers handpollinated by park officals so they can ensure that more will grow. Tre ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Fri Apr 1 08:27:43 2005 Subject: [CP] Circulating water through a bog The water bottle problem is that if you forget you have dead plants. ive been wondering if a small computer fan inside a small tank would act like a swamp cooler evaporating and cooling the tank interior like they use in greenhouses. i may do more research studying orchidariums. one of the ideas i had for darlingtonia would be to get one of those small drink cooler refrigerators that hold a single beer pack or single can of soda. thinkgeek.com used to offer one but now they offer a larger model. get something like that, take off the door and put a tray on top of it and it will keep the roots cool. Chris Hind Homestead, FL --- Ron Lane wrote: > While this seems to be an intriguing question (many > natural bogs in the > south are in seeps with constantly circulating > water), before my bog was > overgrown (and shaded), the Sarrs grew like amazing > weeds. If the > circulating water isn't solving a problem, it would > appear to be a lot > of trouble for potentially little gain. > > Otoh, circulating cool water for a Darlingtonia bog > (in many parts of > the country), would solve a serious problem. While > it's fairly simple to > circulate the water, how does one cool it in a > cost-effective / simple > manner? I haven't been willing to put in the effort, > but the best low > cost solution I've heard was freezing 2 large (2 or > 3 liter) soda > bottles of water. Hang one of the 2 frozen bottles > over the Cobra Lily > each morning and dripping condensation from the > bottle will cool it > enough to keep the plant happy. Replace the next day > w/ the other > bottle. I don't think it would pass the Martha > Stewart beautiful garden > test but it seems like it would work. > > All the best, > > Ron Lane > RL7836@earthlink.net > Central NJ, USA > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 21:34:56 -0500 > From: DougWitkowski@netscape.net > Subject: [CP] My question > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > <7E9ECDF6.37381FA8.735302C3@netscape.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Drat!! > > I finally put in a question that seems fairly > inteligent (circulating water through a bog) but > everybody is busy arguing with a person of > questionable....well.....interesting attributes. > Sigh! > > Let's get back to some growing concerns. > > Doug W > Dripping Springs, TX > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Fri Apr 1 08:34:58 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: chris Well I agree about hte impression. You never know somepeople are just naturally grumpy. Just incase you don't know signitures are in the haeder of the email (hence I know your name when you email me. If is nice to include your name but sometimes in a rush poepl pass over it. > wow. didn't you just move there from southern > california? nice first impression, dude. i didnt strike first blood. im not that kind of person, its when bob mcmorris acted like an ahole to me that set me off. my first ever response from the man: Who are you?? most people sign thier names to what ever they post. Where in FL is 'Freeport'?? Bob McMorris Hudson FL Mapquest helps. Or maybe he want loactiaon data. Anyway as much as I "love" thses flame threads they are unnessicary and usually include if not the same people the archetypical same people and hence I can already tell you what will happen. As I myself have managed to annoy almost everyone in the Tampa Bay Cp society area. Basically Chris the annoyed will stop posting or responding so just give up now. They will never be your friends nor at this point do you probibly want them to be. But like soem people said If you google the right words you will find locations and mapquest will help alot. ################### From: voodoodancer at gmail.com (Mark) Date: Fri Apr 1 09:51:19 2005 Subject: [CP] April fools joke Well, I'm the one that started the joke at PFT. I did my best to keep it contain within PFT, but thanks to Joe, it leaked to the listserv. Since it did make it to here I think I should post the same letter here that I posted on PFT today. --------------------------------------------- Well, I know what some of you are expecting. Before I get to that I want to make a little statement. When I first posted this topic, I never expected how many people would show their concern for me or my plants. I also never expected how far some members here would go to help me. Almost everybody offered to replaced my plants, Somebody offered me their legal service for free, and one member even offered to send me a cash gift to pay for a lawyer, and that doesn't even start to list all the offers I got. Let me tell you nobody will ever convince me that there is a better group of people any where in the world that is better then the people right here at Terrafourms. You guys showed me that I really do have some true friends. People that I didn't even know has offered to send me money, new plants, or to temporarily take my pets and plants. How can I thank you guys for all that you offered to do for me. When I started this I was sure that the people that's been around for a while, would think it was a joke. That's what I wanted to happen. I wanted this to be a joke for the kids here, that's all. I never expected that so many would really believe me. I never even wanted it to get to the level that it did. I truly thought that anybody that remembered the D.capensis last year would laugh as soon as they read it. I really wanted to end this a week and a half ago. After I saw how everybody was behind me I just didn't feel like going through with this anymore. How can you pull a joke on people that are trying to help you. It was real hard. I also didn't want to call it off because there was people that had helped me set this up and they were looking forward to see how it would end. So I decided that I should just go on with the joke. If this upsets anybody I'm truly sorry. All I was trying to do was to make some people laugh. I didn't do this by myself, I had a lot of people helping me. So I can't take all the credit/blame. I had help planning this, and help pulling it off. I'm not going to name those people, incase they don't want to be known. If they want to come forward then they will. Again I want to thank every one of you that offered to help me. You'll never know how much it has meant to me. If you ever need anything, you'll know you can call on me. I just hope that you have as happy April Fools day as you have made mine. This year I guess the joke was on me. --------------------------------------------------- I also want to say that the people there are great people and please don't think any less of them because of my actions. I also know that I'm going to catch hell for posting this here. but I don't care let me have it. I just want to remind all of you that sometimes you need to laugh at yourself and if you can't do that you're a very sad person. -- Paypal is nothing but hightech common thieves. Check out their customer feedback http://www.planetfeedback.com/sharedLettersList/0,2941,101112-70-0-0-20-0-fb_date-desc,00.html Don't become another paypal victim ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Fri Apr 1 10:13:56 2005 Subject: [CP] Water recirculation in home bogs Hey Folks, One of my crazier CP building projects was done in grad school when I had access to a machine shop. I modified a drinking fountain (the kind with an on-board water refrigeration unit) with a timer and a submersible water pump, so that water would enter the drinking fountain, get chilled, then move by gravity through a system of hoses that would dribble water into a 60 gallon terrarium full of Darlingtonia pots. Water would drain from the pots (via a hole cut through the bottom of the terrarium glass wall) into a reservoir, where it would get repumped back into the refrigeration unit. I was trying to replicate the cold-running-water said to be so important for Darlingtonia. I never did get the system down right---the water always ran a little too cold, and the Darlingtonia stayed in a kind of dormancy. Another problem is that peat water can get really foamy. This is a concern when you're designing your reservoir---give PLENTY of room for the foam. I'll let you imagine my horror when I walked into my office once to find peaty foam all over the floor. It would be interesting to try this again sometime. Later! Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: jcreef at bellsouth.net (Juan-Carlos) Date: Fri Apr 1 10:35:18 2005 Subject: [CP] rain Awsome Tre, sorry to hear about the rain, what a bummer! You'll have to take my Cp'ing one day when i'm up by your area ;P I'd love to see some pics!! -Jc ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 10:12 AM > Jeez, > i am in the local library in NW Florida near Eglin. It is hailing and > lightning outside. Along with 11 inches of rain in less then 12 hours. > My bog visits have been cut short by two of 6 places. Oh well. The other > 4 places have been wonderful. Amazing all the plants. So far this trip I > have seen: > S. flava var rugelii (sp?) > S. flava var. ornata > S. flava other var. and inter-species hybrids > S. leucophylla > S. mooreii of many many types > S. rubra ssp. wherryi > S. psitticenia > S. purpurea ssp. venosa var. burkeii > A few hybrids with S. psitticenia > D. filiformis ssp. tracyi > D. filiformis ssp. filiformis (possible, will Id from Picture later) > D. capillaris (also huge ones, about 7 inches across) > D. intermedia (also huge including 7 inches across) > U. inflata > U. subulata > I don't think I missed any. > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Messenger > Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun. > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Fri Apr 1 11:08:50 2005 Subject: [CP] rain > Awsome Tre, sorry to hear about the rain, what a > bummer! > You'll have to take my Cp'ing one day when i'm up by > your area ;P > > I'd love to see some pics!! tre: yeah but then you get the lightning and thunder which i so crave being deprived of it coming from so cal. juancarlos: dude. arent you on reefcentral? ################### From: hpulley at rogers.com (Harry Pulley) Date: Fri Apr 1 11:11:26 2005 Subject: [CP] rain Could be worse! We're getting 6" of snow tomorrow! Harry :-{} Harry C. Pulley, IV mailto:hpulley@rogers.com http://ca.geocities.com/hpulley4@rogers.com Guelph, Ontario, Canada ################### From: jcreef at bellsouth.net (Juan-Carlos) Date: Fri Apr 1 11:16:15 2005 Subject: [CP] rain Yep, i'm on ReefCentral :) -Jc ----- Original Message ----- To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 2:08 PM >> Awsome Tre, sorry to hear about the rain, what a >> bummer! >> You'll have to take my Cp'ing one day when i'm up by >> your area ;P >> >> I'd love to see some pics!! > > tre: yeah but then you get the lightning and thunder > which i so crave being deprived of it coming from so > cal. > > juancarlos: dude. arent you on reefcentral? > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: sarracenia at blueyonder.co.uk (Alan Haines) Date: Fri Apr 1 12:40:57 2005 Subject: [CP] Triphyophyllum peltatum Best Wishes Alan ******************************** www.thecps.org.uk Join the Society today. internetofficer@thecps.org.uk **For the best TV & Radio guide on your PC** http://accounts.digiguide.com/showcase.asp?p=1&r=17484 ******************************** ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 9:34 PM > > Hi > > For some information go to > www.thecarnivorousplantsociety.org/cpsabouttheplants14.html > > This has a few links and may help with the information you need > > > Best Wishes Alan > ******************************** > www.thecps.org.uk > Join the Society today. > internetofficer@thecps.org.uk > **For the best TV & Radio guide on your PC** > http://accounts.digiguide.com/showcase.asp?p=1&r=17484 > ******************************** > > ################### From: drone at dronecolony.com (C. Church) Date: Fri Apr 1 13:02:45 2005 Subject: [CP] Water recirculation in home bogs I used to do quite a bit of hydroponic growing, never for CP's, but much of the lessons could probably be the same... Most of my experience is with ebb-and-flow, and I'm not sure how well that would work with a substrate that holds so much water, in a more home-brew solution. (We used lava rocks and perlite *shrug*) But we found that, in the Houston summers having a room with a bunch of lights, even with it's own AC feed, could get well above 95 degrees. One of the tricks we used to both oxygenate the water and reduce the temperature, was to let the water fall about 2' into an intermediary container from a wide-mouthed spout on the bottom of the container (causing the falling water to fan out in a spray) - this alone gave us drops of about 5 degrees in the normal water temperature, and greatly increased the oxygen content. Another, very simple trick, is to use a few dozen feet of wound-up copper tubing as a stage on your input line - just run a fan across this, and you'll see several degrees of temperature drop. If you'd rather not go with an ebb-and-flow system, and you have your input volume exactly matching your output volume (we used to just stopper the drain by hand until it filled up, and adjusted the voltage on the pump until the water stayed at a constant mark) - the constant movement of water through the two cooling stages will keep it even cooler. Just a couple of suggestions, that don't require the annoying task of filling up ice buckets every day =) !c ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Fri Apr 1 14:05:44 2005 Subject: [CP] Darlingtonia cultivation Dear Ron, _Darlingtonia_ can be cultivated in an unglazed clay pot. It has to be unglazed for the next part: Set the pot in a water tray that is in a very bright location, but try not to have much sun light hitting it directly, just have the sun light falling on the plant, avoid having it fall on the material of the pot as much as possible. Maybe placing the _Darlingtonia_ pot on the north side of the tray and use other pots of CP to shade the _Darlingtonia_ pot(s). In the southern hemisphere, it would be the south side of the tray. Then aim a small fan at the clay pot and by way of evaporative cooling you will have a nice cool area where the roots are. Of course, you need to have a back up fan for when the first one goes out--it has to be replaced immediately, so get two. One fan can cover several pots, so you can even have a couple of _Darlingtonia_ clones. In the very hottest parts of summer, you might need to go a step further and start using the ice drip method, but to use it most of the year would probably be prohibitive. Yes, all the old CP books say you should not use unglazed pots because they can collect salts. My question to these statements is, "So what?" That why we use pure water because if we don't the salts will build up in the soils, and then the plants making them diseased whether using clay pots or not. Some clay pots can have extra salt in them, so it is a good idea to soak for a couple days prior to use, and/or just flush them out more often. This method will use more water compared to the trays that are not being cooled, but using a wet wall uses lot more water and costs much more to run than a small fan. Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of Ron Lane Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 11:17 AM Otoh, circulating cool water for a Darlingtonia bog (in many parts of the country), would solve a serious problem. While it's fairly simple to circulate the water, how does one cool it in a cost-effective / simple manner? I haven't been willing to put in the effort, but the best low cost solution I've heard was freezing 2 large (2 or 3 liter) soda bottles of water. Hang one of the 2 frozen bottles over the Cobra Lily each morning and dripping condensation from the bottle will cool it enough to keep the plant happy. Replace the next day w/ the other bottle. I don't think it would pass the Martha Stewart beautiful garden test but it seems like it would work. All the best, Ron Lane RL7836@earthlink.net Central NJ, USA ################### From: jcreef at bellsouth.net (Juan-Carlos) Date: Fri Apr 1 16:44:44 2005 Subject: [CP] Darlingtonia cultivation Ok, so I keep on hearing talk about Darlingtonia and all the different ways to try to cool the roots. Some of the ideas mentioned seem okay, but they all seem tedious and a bit of a pain! I don't really bother with Darlingtonia but If you really want to keep them cool, get yourself anything from a kidde pool to a Rubbermaid, or a glass aquarium get it drilled($15 for a hole in a glass tank) and use a little thermoelectric chiller meant for aquariums. One of these little chillers will cost about $112.00 but consider it a good investment saving you time of putting ice cubes, freezing water bottles, ghetto rigging other things that could or could not work. Look at it like .30cents a day for a year and you have an awesome little chiller for Darlingtonia! Here's a link of an online vendor that sells these chillers, but you can find them in other places online aswell! http://www.thatpetplace.com/Products/KW/chiller/Class//T1/F10+0130+0001/EDP/30523/Itemdy00.aspx Hope this idea inspires some people! -Jc ----- Original Message ----- To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 5:05 PM Dear Ron, _Darlingtonia_ can be cultivated in an unglazed clay pot. It has to be unglazed for the next part: Set the pot in a water tray that is in a very bright location, but try not to have much sun light hitting it directly, just have the sun light falling on the plant, avoid having it fall on the material of the pot as much as possible. Maybe placing the _Darlingtonia_ pot on the north side of the tray and use other pots of CP to shade the _Darlingtonia_ pot(s). In the southern hemisphere, it would be the south side of the tray. Then aim a small fan at the clay pot and by way of evaporative cooling you will have a nice cool area where the roots are. Of course, you need to have a back up fan for when the first one goes out--it has to be replaced immediately, so get two. One fan can cover several pots, so you can even have a couple of _Darlingtonia_ clones. In the very hottest parts of summer, you might need to go a step further and start using the ice drip method, but to use it most of the year would probably be prohibitive. Yes, all the old CP books say you should not use unglazed pots because they can collect salts. My question to these statements is, "So what?" That why we use pure water because if we don't the salts will build up in the soils, and then the plants making them diseased whether using clay pots or not. Some clay pots can have extra salt in them, so it is a good idea to soak for a couple days prior to use, and/or just flush them out more often. This method will use more water compared to the trays that are not being cooled, but using a wet wall uses lot more water and costs much more to run than a small fan. Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of Ron Lane Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 11:17 AM Otoh, circulating cool water for a Darlingtonia bog (in many parts of the country), would solve a serious problem. While it's fairly simple to circulate the water, how does one cool it in a cost-effective / simple manner? I haven't been willing to put in the effort, but the best low cost solution I've heard was freezing 2 large (2 or 3 liter) soda bottles of water. Hang one of the 2 frozen bottles over the Cobra Lily each morning and dripping condensation from the bottle will cool it enough to keep the plant happy. Replace the next day w/ the other bottle. I don't think it would pass the Martha Stewart beautiful garden test but it seems like it would work. All the best, Ron Lane RL7836@earthlink.net Central NJ, USA _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Sat Apr 2 03:09:46 2005 Subject: [CP] CP life on Mars Welcome to the listserv Marya, or Mars as you like to say. We welcome just about anyone to our group, beginners or experts. Don't think that your questions will be too basic, we all have to start somewhere. Mind you, you may not get an answer sometimes, people don't reply to everything. If you want an answer, you should just try to annoy everyone, that usually works. Only joking :-) !!!!!! As to where you live, TN is Texas ? isn't it ? We have a few members down that way who could no doubt help you. The only possible problem you may have is not having a cold enough winter for some plants, people living your way could no doubt help. You may not be able to grow Sarracenia purpurea purpurea very well. It might be good for Nepenthes though. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Sat Apr 2 06:48:55 2005 Subject: [CP] Drosera indica (Ivory Coast, Africa) seed for trade Hi friends, Drosera indica never grew well for me. :( If you've got good luck with Drosera indica (meaning you have luck flowering it / producing seed), I've got some seed of indica from Ivory Coast, Africa for trade. I have more specific location data as well. Please email me privately with a list of what you've got for trade (seed or sterile tissue cultured plants only please) Thanks, Matt -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Sat Apr 2 08:29:00 2005 Subject: [CP] CPer new to FL /RE: should i post it to the world? Dear friend Bob, Hope you don't mind if I forward your private message below. Sorry I was not able to introduce you before to my friend Chris Hind. Things have been difficult at home with my father in the hospital. Chris is a good guy if you give him a chance. He got me started on the internet and I would not be writing to you now if it wasn't for him. His dream is to do some repatriation of CP back to nature as has Phil Sheridan in Virginia and the other guy I don't know in Mississippi. Yes, Chris is anal about doing no harm to nature (CPers Hippocratic Oath), although he could use some guidance from more knowledgeable individuals. On his first discovery of CP in Florida he took home only photographs. He gave a fine presentation of his trip to our LACP Society. Oh wait, he did bring home one thing: He gave me a seed of the Miracle Fruit which was given to him at a botanical garden during a demonstration of the fruit's property. I raised up a seedling and gave it to the new curator the greenhouses, ED Read, at CSUF as a donation. We are all just human beings with a mutual interest in CP. Please give Chris a chance. Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California >Hey Ivan! What gives with this jerk you sent our way? Is he young?gay? anal retentive?has a persecution complex or what? After several folks on the listerv have explained the folly in creating a wild bog; after I nicely explained how I considered it very rude and in poor manners not to sign your name. tried to explain why I and others won't give him our locations; I get what is forwarded here. apparently he considers you a good friend and may listen to you. Anyway some background info might help to understand him better. Thanks, hope you and Ed are doing well(how is he doing at the new job?) Bob ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: ksanders at clas.ufl.edu (Keith Sanders) Date: Sat Apr 2 08:55:35 2005 Subject: [CP] repotting sarrs Hi all, For those of you who grow sarracenias via the tray method, how do you decide when to repot them? Also, what pots sizes do you generally use for mature plants (leuco, flava, etc, rather than purps or psitts)? thanks, Keith ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (rrz7001@humboldt.edu) Date: Sat Apr 2 08:57:45 2005 Subject: [CP] CP life on Mars > As to where you live, TN is Texas ? isn't it ? > David Ahrens > London. Close David, but you get no balloon for geography on this side of the pond. -BobZ- Arcata, CA (Canada isn't it?) ################### From: stovehouse at earthlink.net (Michael Hunt) Date: Sat Apr 2 10:17:39 2005 Subject: [CP] CP] Re: on behalf of chris hind & site begging dummies Message: 2 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <20050401005222.7320A1027BE@ws3.hk5.outblaze.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" two things, first i dont trsut this chris rind guy, he seems to "eager" to get site info and plus he is being incredibley rude! second cps dangeorus? o no! that drosera's digesting my baby! really get over it, this is like the people who sue fast food places for makeing them fat, in that case should i sue my town for crappy tap water that causes rot on all my plants? (except cps of course!) or how bout i sue wacko jacko for giveing me nightmares? lol. FREE CPS! get those poor plants put of jail! ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I couldn't agree more that Chris Hind must me a "wacko" & I will be glad to put on my bog boots made by Caterpillar for my big fat feet and smush him into the boggy flatwoods. Maybe he was just liquored up when he posted that thread? Now that I can understand as I like to par take in the bottle from time to time. I can tell him and that other nut wipe always posting sites that I would never give either of them any sites. Let them play off the side of safe paved roads looking for ditch material or marginal remnants of the true golden jewels of cp. Lazy rich suburban white dough boys, site begging dummies making live real crummy !! While the true naturalist gets on the hip waders and the face net, snake boots as well. Drops off into the waist deep cypress woods moving with the stick to push unseen alligators under water out of the way. Armed with only a camera not a bag and shovel. The hike is warring on the body but the return is worth it. Deer flies sucking blood from any uncovered body part and the more you swat at them the more they like the play and attack even more fierce Of course the mosquitoes so thick if you didn't have your netting on they would choke you as they would fill up your mouth and nose. Sucking the blood that could make you pass out. Leeches on your privates. Falling into floating sphagnum mats, like ice if you go under but pure black you can't see and likely you will become a peat mummy, you site begging dummies. Ticks stuck in your head feeding from your like blood and blowing up like Goodyear blimps of a ugly black or grey color. No you site begging dummies I will only tell you that you are a low life but not a site will I word out. Our vehicles wear out and the trek is similar to the tornado chasers, luck is seldom but its a effort and costly with vehicle repairs getting stuck in quagmires miles from even cell phone reception. Towing bills that cost in the hundreds. The miles click away as sunrise becomes sunset and alls you get to eat is a can of spam. NO YOU SITE BEGGING DUMMIES NO SITE WILL I GIVE BECAUCSE I WANT THE PLANTS TO LIVE !! Pigmy rattle snakes the are the most common and dropping from the trees on our pith helmets. Taking the photos at ground level and then finding we are not alone as the Eastern Diamond back shares the same hummock as the Sarracenia or other cp. Oh crap we must back away slowly, but these snakes are not aggressive and are a sight to behold like a grizzly bear they are a real credit to the reptile world and the size of them is just a awesome respectful sight. Another pain in the butt is the dangerous and aggressive cottonmouth which I can say nothing about. How about getting bit in the ankle from a black widow just to see a rare colored P. pumila and having your leg swell up like a upside down baseball bat and the pain sends you to a mortal earth hell. No you silly punks, you do the leg work and if you post the sights I will come through this electric computer like the ghost in the machine and grab your neck and shake some sense into you punks. I am , Michael Hunt St. Petersburg Florida ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Sat Apr 2 11:07:07 2005 Subject: [CP] CP life on Mars And where, in the name Texas, do you see the letter 'n?' Now, Tennessee, on the other hand....... In a message dated 4/2/2005 3:10:08 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, nepenthesdave@hotmail.com writes: As to where you live, TN is Texas ? isn't it ? TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Sat Apr 2 11:16:26 2005 Subject: [CP] CPer new to FL /RE: should i post it to the world? I certainly hope that I am misreading the homophobic attitude that seems implied with this statement. Of course, perhaps I am inferring the wrong meaning of the word you use, and you really believe that having a carefree, happy attitude somehow makes one a jerk or somehow affects their right to be part of the CP society. In a message dated 4/2/2005 8:29:36 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, bioexp@juno.com writes, snipped from a private message from Bob: >Hey Ivan! What gives with this jerk you sent our way? Is he young?gay? anal retentive?has a persecution complex or what? TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Sat Apr 2 11:26:17 2005 Subject: [CP] repotting sarrs I use standard size one gallon pots for all the Sarracenia I grow that I intend to keep in my collection, and that seems to work quite well, though I still seem to have difficulty with S. minor. The only exception is when I am repotting and am potting up plants that I will end up taking to LACPS meetings for sale. Then I will pot them up in whatever surplus pots I have that seem appropriate to the size of the cutting. Usually something close to the 6" diameter (though not always height) of a one gallon, but sometimes smaller like a 4" if the cutting is exceptionally small. The small ones I should probably just dispose of, but I have a real hard time disposing of any plants, even weedy volunteer Drosera whose identity I am unsure of. I've finally accomplished the feat of tossing capensis into the rubbish heap without flinching. As to when I repot, I decide to repot them when the pot is literally bursting at the seams with the Sarracenia poking through the holes. Although this does not always occur, and I had to just cut a nice xmoorei hybrid out of a one gallon pot in which it had become rhizome-bound. In a message dated 4/2/2005 8:55:58 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, ksanders@clas.ufl.edu writes: For those of you who grow sarracenias via the tray method, how do you decide when to repot them? Also, what pots sizes do you generally use for mature plants (leuco, flava, etc, rather than purps or psitts)? TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: Satyrnik at aol.com (Satyrnik@aol.com) Date: Sat Apr 2 12:14:11 2005 Subject: [CP] Sarracenia seed for trade Hello all, I have some seed of the following Sarracenia's for trade for seed (or plants) of Heliamphora, Nepenthes or Sarracenia. 'Case's Resolve' x rubra subsp. wherryi (alata x rubra) x 'Bog Witch' (alata x rubra) x psittacina rubra wherryi -yellow flower, but NOT antho free x (leucophylla x flava) [(lecuphylla x purpurea) x (leucophylla x psittacina)] x rubra wherryi purpurea venosa burkii x rubra wherryi-yellow flower, NOT antho free 'Bog Witch' x (rubra wherryi x purpurea) (rubra wherryi x purpurea) x [(leucophylla x purpurea) x (leucophylla x psittacina)] ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Sat Apr 2 12:15:32 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: on behalf of chris hind or whatever his name is hmmm cant spell eh? i smell some one try to grasp for something that will make him look less stupid then he is, If your going to be like this, i can be the same, i say dont tell him anything! ever! -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Sat Apr 2 14:10:42 2005 Subject: [CP] Tennessee Oh TN is Tennessee is it ? I might have guessed that, Texas is too big a state to not be TX, brains must have been in my underpants when I wrote that TN was Texas. It's not that far away though , is it ? I mean, I drove to Aberdeen last week from London, which is a few miles. Aberdeen is only 150 miles from the Arctic Circle, apparently. I know that you only have to put TN on the ZIP code, in the address, and you don't have to put Tennessee in the address, like other states. You have to be careful that you don't put the wrong code for the state, the letter could go anywhere. I once left 'England' off an address on a postcard to England, from America, and it still arrived OK. Impressive. Back to CP's. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: jneps at comcast.net (Jeff Shafer) Date: Sat Apr 2 14:27:38 2005 Subject: [CP] Tennessee David, Don't worry. The average moronic American could not, I am sure, even find London on a map of Europe, much less the location of a place such as Cambridge (England or Massachusetts). Jeff Shafer David Ahrens wrote: > Oh TN is Tennessee is it ? > I might have guessed that, Texas is too big a state to not be TX, > brains must have been in my underpants when I wrote that TN was Texas. > It's not that far away though , is it ? > I mean, I drove to Aberdeen last week from London, which is a few > miles. Aberdeen is only 150 miles from the Arctic Circle, apparently. > I know that you only have to put TN on the ZIP code, in the address, > and you don't have to put Tennessee in the address, like other states. > You have to be careful that you don't put the wrong code for the > state, the letter could go anywhere. > I once left 'England' off an address on a postcard to England, from > America, and it still arrived OK. Impressive. > Back to CP's. > Regards > David Ahrens > London. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > ################### From: mmilstein at msn.com (Michael Milstein) Date: Sat Apr 2 19:12:15 2005 Subject: [CP] Darlingtonia cultivation A low-maintenance way of growing Darlingtonia that has worked for me has been to take an undrained plastic pot or bucket and drill a hole about a third of the way up the side. Then I bury it in the ground up to the rim. I pot the Darlingtonia in an unglazed clay pot that fits inside the buried plastic container, with a few inches to spare all the way around the rim. Set the clay pot with Darlingtonia inside the buried container in the ground and water. The buried container fills with water up to the hole drilled in the side, which keeps it from overflowing. It's effectively the tray method, but underground. This keeps sun off the sides of the pot, which keeps it from heating up. Also, the ground is generally about 10-15 degrees cooler, so you're enjoying the same kind of cooling effect you get in caves. And the evaporation of water off the interior clay pot also cools things. I water like I do Sarracenias above ground, and Darlingtonia seems to do just fine even with air temperatures near 100. I have put ice cubes on it occasionally on real hot days, but I don't always do so. I'm not sure which element of this setup (the shade, evaporative cooling or ground temperature) has the biggest role, or if it's the combination of all three, but Darlingtonia has grown happily this way for three years now, and right now has two emerging blooms. I happen to live very close to Darlingtonia's native range, so the weather is generally conducive. But they still need extra cooling, and usually grow around cool seeps in the wild. ################### From: Writerguy67 at aol.com (Writerguy67@aol.com) Date: Sat Apr 2 20:46:55 2005 Subject: [CP] Tennessee Extra credit if they can find Cambridge, MD (Maryland) or Westminster, California ################### From: jcreef at bellsouth.net (Juan-Carlos) Date: Sat Apr 2 21:21:42 2005 Subject: [CP] Darlingtonia cultivation I like that Idea Mike, sounds good! -Jc ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 10:11 PM A low-maintenance way of growing Darlingtonia that has worked for me has been to take an undrained plastic pot or bucket and drill a hole about a third of the way up the side. Then I bury it in the ground up to the rim. I pot the Darlingtonia in an unglazed clay pot that fits inside the buried plastic container, with a few inches to spare all the way around the rim. Set the clay pot with Darlingtonia inside the buried container in the ground and water. The buried container fills with water up to the hole drilled in the side, which keeps it from overflowing. It's effectively the tray method, but underground. This keeps sun off the sides of the pot, which keeps it from heating up. Also, the ground is generally about 10-15 degrees cooler, so you're enjoying the same kind of cooling effect you get in caves. And the evaporation of water off the interior clay pot also cools things. I water like I do Sarracenias above ground, and Darlingtonia seems to do just fine even with air temperatures near 100. I have put ice cubes on it occasionally on real hot days, but I don't always do so. I'm not sure which element of this setup (the shade, evaporative cooling or ground temperature) has the biggest role, or if it's the combination of all three, but Darlingtonia has grown happily this way for three years now, and right now has two emerging blooms. I happen to live very close to Darlingtonia's native range, so the weather is generally conducive. But they still need extra cooling, and usually grow around cool seeps in the wild. The only real problem is that slugs like the cool, damp space between the two pots. They go in there and generally drown. So I occasionally have to remove the interior pot and scoop out the slug corpses and detritus. I also found a dead mouse in there once. I usually feed the slugs to the other CPs, but I may experiment with some kind of screening so as not to take a toll on other wildlife. _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: marsintenn at hotmail.com (marya schultz) Date: Sat Apr 2 23:10:11 2005 Subject: [CP] CP life on Mars i've noticed that the cp crowd is very open, friendly and helpful. i've been lurking a bit on the list serve before posting. i must say thanks to those nearby who mailed me, i will write back to each of you, i just have so little time. to those who have already offered me plants or to join them on bogging trips, thanks also! you folks really know how to throw out the welcome mat. although, the correction has already been made, i will do it again. TN is tennessee. (break out your textbooks everyone). i live just 15 miles east of knoxville. i'm only a 45 minute drive from the gorgeous smoky mountains. i'm roughly 4 hours from atlanta (yes, the botanical gardens are on my list of things to do.) i've seen my area rated as zones 6, 7, and on a few rare occasions bordering on 8. living here, i'd say it can really range through all three, depending on the year, and the mood of the weather gods. i'm lucky enough to work at the zoo in knoxville, and we've got a great bunch of people here. several of the guys in the herpetology dept have been doing field reasearch locally with rattlesnakes and with bog turtles. we've got some phenominal breeding projects going in the herp dept as well, and the bog turtle project has even been doing breed and release work. and if you think cpers are protective about bog sites, you should meet some of these guys. when you realize the extent of the endangerment of species in the bogs, tho, and how much of an effect a careless vistor can have even if they don't remove anything, it's understandable. ok, umm enough babbling. briefly now. i'm strongly interested in sarracinia and drosera. i'm looking to do mostly outdoor growing and have an interest in plants native to north america. indoor plants of any kind are a problem in my house due to my feline infestation (4 cats, one of whom is convinced that he owns the place and the rest of us just live there), and just general lack of space. if anyone has any particularly good websites to recommend (i know you do) for info or for ordering, please let me know. also, silly question: approx what would be the dimensions of a 1 gallon pot. the place where i get most of my gardening supplies (while wonderful) doesn't label anything. they are very ummmmmm quaintly appalachian when answering questions as well (anyone who's lived around here knows what i mean :) ). -mars yes there is life on me marsintenn@hotmail.com ----------------------------------------------------------ORIGINAL MESSAGE---------------------------------------------- To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Welcome to the listserv Marya, or Mars as you like to say. We welcome just about anyone to our group, beginners or experts. Don't think that your questions will be too basic, we all have to start somewhere. Mind you, you may not get an answer sometimes, people don't reply to everything. If you want an answer, you should just try to annoy everyone, that usually works. Only joking :-) !!!!!! As to where you live, TN is Texas ? isn't it ? We have a few members down that way who could no doubt help you. The only possible problem you may have is not having a cold enough winter for some plants, people living your way could no doubt help. You may not be able to grow Sarracenia purpurea purpurea very well. It might be good for Nepenthes though. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: tvaughan at charter.net (Tim Vaughan) Date: Sun Apr 3 07:58:02 2005 Subject: [CP] CP life on Mars ################### From: wildlifegardener at sbcglobal.net (WildLifeGardener) Date: Sun Apr 3 13:32:33 2005 Subject: [CP] Breeding program at zoo ################### From: ClaraVoiAunt at aol.com (ClaraVoiAunt@aol.com) Date: Sun Apr 3 16:01:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Growing Darlingtonia Hey there list! OK, I have trouble growing Darlingtonia for sale,RE: last summers powdery mildew escapade. Only a few ,maybe 50 out of 500 ,.seemed to have survived and I think Mother Nature, colder weather and incessant rain,. was the best cure. I did have success using the soapy fungicide , at least the fungicide with the soap drained off.( Thanx to whomever gave me that suggestion ) on my year old seedlings. My "Display Bog" is made out of one of those black concrete mixing containers approx. 3 ft by 4 ft by about 8 " deep, with 4, 2" holes drilled in it on the long side about 4" from the corner. These holes are filled with long fibered sphagnum moss. It is painted white on the outside to deflect the heat of the sun .I keep it elevated on a couple of pallets to prevent earthworms from setting up housekeeping. I usally water jest the media avoiding the leaves of the plants And once a week i water overhead and sign "It's raining in Del Norte County." as I sprinkle. I think the song is the secret to my success. These plants are smiling this spring and sending up new plantlets and blossoms everywhere. Thanx for listening (reading) and keep 'em plants growin' ################### From: CTSsangha at aol.com (CTSsangha@aol.com) Date: Sun Apr 3 17:09:24 2005 Subject: [CP] lava rock I am gathering potting materials preparing to do the spring repotting thing. Question. Is lava rock used for landscaping at a huge bag for 2.99 the same as lava rock used for horticulture for a very small bag for 2.99 the same thing? Safe to use? OK, thats 2 questions. Input appreciated. Thanks! ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (rrz7001@humboldt.edu) Date: Sun Apr 3 17:40:28 2005 Subject: [CP] lava rock It should be the same thing. I would wash it to remove the soil or other contaminants. you might even smash it with a hammer if you want smaller particle size. You can probably get a pickup truck full for about the same price at a landscaping company. The price is often in the packaging, not the raw materials. > I am gathering potting materials preparing to do the spring repotting > thing. > Question. Is lava rock used for landscaping at a huge bag for 2.99 the > same > as lava rock used for horticulture for a very small bag for 2.99 the same > thing? Safe to use? OK, thats 2 questions. Input appreciated. Thanks! > > Angie, trying to reestablish a collection, Hall > Lovely Mt. Pleasant, SC > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sun Apr 3 17:49:22 2005 Subject: [CP] S. flava var cuprea types? Hey Everyone, I was wondering if S. flava var. cuprea came in different types? My question is because one of the bogs I visited on my trip (back a couple hours ago) probibly had flava var. cuprea. Oddly this was in NW Fl. S. flava var. rugelii, S. flava var ornata (not sure if pure), S. flava var. flava (hybrids maybe) and possibly one S. flava 'red tube' (what var?) were all present. Well I developed the pictures and a couple of the plants had copper-y tops. I also noticed this in the field. But one plant had pitchers that were intermediate between that and 'red tube'. These were younger plants (pitchers about 7 inches). I know less copper-y coloration is shown in shade but the plants were in full sun around the clock (in the middle of a savannah). So do you think these were real copper tops or not? Interestingly at the Pensacola Junior College plant sale (in Milton). I bought a S. flava labled 'Copper Top' (Not actually sure yet if it was cuprea). I talked to the guy and he said he had a bog in his yard and he worked with plant rescue groups/societies that do rescues. He said they were rescuing plants when they found a stand of S. flava 'copper top' since he was the only person with a bog he took all of them and planted them in his yard. He has been since raising them and selling them when he gets too many (Is that possible?). The plant rescue happened outside Milton so if these are true coppertops then I may have actually seen a few. ################### From: CTSsangha at aol.com (CTSsangha@aol.com) Date: Sun Apr 3 20:18:26 2005 Subject: [CP] lava rock ################### From: marsintenn at hotmail.com (marya schultz) Date: Sun Apr 3 23:22:23 2005 Subject: [CP] cp watering (on mars) so what types of water or water purifying techniques do you all use? the ground/tapwater in my area is hard water and so contains way too many minerals for cp use. i've been wondering about rainwater, tho. this area gets quite a bit of rain most of the year so collecting enough of it isn't really an issue. btw - the smoky mountain area of the appalachian mountain range is actually considered a rainforest! i'm close enough to reap the benefits of this. and east TN (where i live) is actually pretty far from texas. there's a whole other state between the two. you are forgiven tho, as it is true that most americans probly couldn't even find europe on a map, let alone england, for that matter. (sigh) and to think at one time i wanted to be a teacher..... mars marsintenn@hotmail.com yes there is life on me ################### From: stephenwd at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Davis) Date: Sun Apr 3 23:58:06 2005 Subject: [CP] repotting sarrs Hi, I've talked to people who repot every year. I tried that, but with bigger plants and pots I'm not convinced it's necessary every year. I use 1 and 2 gallon pots for mature plants. Stephen Davis stephenwd@sbcglobal.net www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com -----Original Message----- Of Keith Sanders Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 8:58 AM To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Hi all, For those of you who grow sarracenias via the tray method, how do you decide when to repot them? Also, what pots sizes do you generally use for mature plants (leuco, flava, etc, rather than purps or psitts)? thanks, Keith _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: stephenwd at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Davis) Date: Mon Apr 4 00:07:43 2005 Subject: [CP] cp watering (on mars) Collecting rainwater is the easiest and cheapest. I use a reverse osmosis that I've purchase on Ebay. Works great and cost me less than $100. Stephen Davis stephenwd@sbcglobal.net www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com -----Original Message----- Of marya schultz Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 11:22 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com so what types of water or water purifying techniques do you all use? the ground/tapwater in my area is hard water and so contains way too many minerals for cp use. i've been wondering about rainwater, tho. this area gets quite a bit of rain most of the year so collecting enough of it isn't really an issue. btw - the smoky mountain area of the appalachian mountain range is actually considered a rainforest! i'm close enough to reap the benefits of this. and east TN (where i live) is actually pretty far from texas. there's a whole other state between the two. you are forgiven tho, as it is true that most americans probly couldn't even find europe on a map, let alone england, for that matter. (sigh) and to think at one time i wanted to be a teacher..... mars marsintenn@hotmail.com yes there is life on me _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: stephenwd at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Davis) Date: Mon Apr 4 00:23:02 2005 Subject: [CP] Drosera neocaledonica growing Hey all, I've got some Drosera neocaledonica and believe that it is happier in very humid, but cooler conditions. Is that anyone elses experience? What is the best way to grow this plant. Mine don't look as good as the ones in the pictures I've seen. I had a group of them in a pot in a wardian case that gave it plenty of light, pretty warm days, and cool nights. Humidity is about 60%-80%. It did OK, but not great. I've since taken it out and put some of the plants in New Zealand sphagnum and one in peat and sand. They are all doing OK, although still a little slow growing. They actually seem to be doing better when we have cooler weather. They are in a south east window so it gets hot for a few hours in the morning. I'm sure humidity drops pretty low during that time. The ones in NZ sphagnum are doing a little better and the small leaves are not drying out as soon as the one in peat/sand. I imagine that is because they are in a large pot and the sphagnum makes for a more humid env. Stephen Davis stephenwd@sbcglobal.net www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com ################### From: hpulley at rogers.com (Harry Pulley) Date: Mon Apr 4 03:51:48 2005 Subject: [CP] cp watering (on mars) > so what types of water or water purifying techniques do you all use? the > ground/tapwater in my area is hard water and so contains way too many > minerals for cp use. i've been wondering about rainwater, tho. this area > gets quite a bit of rain most of the year so collecting enough of it isn't > really an issue. btw - the smoky mountain area of the appalachian mountain > range is actually considered a rainforest! i'm close enough to reap the > benefits of this. Our water is also very hard and all but the outside taps are run through a softener which is even worse for plants. I use pure rain water, no filtration though I should probably put it through a sieve of some sort. The substrates are nutrient poor enough that almost no seeds from the rainwater survive germination, though you do get one or two stubborn water plants showing up by accident (my Maidenhair fern's spores also make it into the moist peat sometimes). This seems to work well. It is cold enough here that I have to put the rain barrel away during the winter (or it will freeze solid and split in two) so up until this point I've been collecting snow over the winter when my last barrel full of water ran out. The melted snow seems to work well. Harry -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/05 ################### From: h7n at talk21.com (Nigel Hurneyman) Date: Mon Apr 4 08:47:22 2005 Subject: [CP] CITES within EU States Contrary to previous opinions, I believe CITES does apply when shipping plants between EU States. The National Council for the Conservation of Plants and Gardens made it sound a big deal when they announced they had negotiated a mass exemption for National Collection Holders. However it doesn't seem to be enforced, as Collection Holders observed when the announcement was made. Someone mentioned human rights - the UK has implemented a full version of the Human Rights Act, and one of the rights it bestows is the right to operate a business. A Human Rights Lawyer could argue that the Human Rights Act takes precedence over CITES and so if a business could show it was being harmed by CITES, the owners could claim compensation for the violation of their human rights. NigelH Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ################### From: CTSsangha at aol.com (CTSsangha@aol.com) Date: Mon Apr 4 09:46:42 2005 Subject: [CP] repotting sarrs In a message dated 4/4/05 2:58:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, stephenwd@sbcglobal.net writes: For those of you who grow sarracenias via the tray method, how do you decide when to repot them? I repot every OTHER year. Worked well for me and the plants when my collection was big. Its rather overwhelming every year when you have 100+ plants, inside and out, that you think need repotting. Gallon nursery pots are good for mature Sarrs. and are cheap or free when you buy nursery stock for your yard. ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Mon Apr 4 13:07:08 2005 Subject: [CP] Repotting Sarries I generally repot my Sarracenias about every other year. When I had a fair sized collection, housed in a greenhouse, I would run out of water in July and August, especially if it was a dry year. I would soften the mains water with a small amount of sulphuric acid ( only about 6cc of 10% acid per British gallon), just enough to drop the pH down to about 5.5. I found that if I used sulphuric acid, that I HAD to repot every other year, otherwise my plants tended to get grey mould during the winter, due possibly to the buildup of salts in the compost. These days, I grow a modest amount of plants on the kitchen windowsill, and if I run out of water, I use a still, to produce distilled water. Regards David Ahrens London ################### From: writerguy67 at aol.com (writerguy67@aol.com) Date: Mon Apr 4 14:09:53 2005 Subject: [CP] cp watering (on mars) I agree, Marya .... rainwater is best (and least expensive). For some of my indoor CP (and when I get tired of springing for distilled water), I bought an aquarium tap water purifier ... it's designed for Chiclids, and is made by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals. It's like a big Brita or Pur filter (charcoal and resin beads). The initial purchase (the filter thingy with hoses, attachments, etc.) was about $30. The filters (good for between 50 to 150 gallons, they say, depending on the water) are about $20. Probably ways to get them at a discount online. It can process about 10 gallons an hour, and it's powered by the water pressure. Jay Lechtman Northern Virginia, USA -----Original Message----- To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Sent: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 06:51:40 -0400 > so what types of water or water purifying techniques do you all use? the > ground/tapwater in my area is hard water and so contains way too many > minerals for cp use. i've been wondering about rainwater, tho. this area > gets quite a bit of rain most of the year so collecting enough of it isn't > really an issue. btw - the smoky mountain area of the appalachian mountain > range is actually considered a rainforest! i'm close enough to reap the > benefits of this. Our water is also very hard and all but the outside taps are run through a softener which is even worse for plants. I use pure rain water, no filtration though I should probably put it through a sieve of some sort. The substrates are nutrient poor enough that almost no seeds from the rainwater survive germination, though you do get one or two stubborn water plants showing up by accident (my Maidenhair fern's spores also make it into the moist peat sometimes). This seems to work well. It is cold enough here that I have to put the rain barrel away during the winter (or it will freeze solid and split in two) so up until this point I've been collecting snow over the winter when my last barrel full of water ran out. The melted snow seems to work well. Harry -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/05 ################### From: alexnetherton at charter.net (Alex) Date: Mon Apr 4 18:10:19 2005 Subject: [CP] What time of year to repot I have a couple of pots of Sarracenia I need to re-pot. Any ideas on the best time of year to do this? I also need to clean some sedges out of my Sarr's. Will it hurt to bare root them and plant in new substrate? Alex Netherton Asheville, NC, US -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu) Date: Mon Apr 4 19:26:25 2005 Subject: [CP] S. flava var cuprea types? Dear Tre, Yes, there many intermediate forms of _S. flava_. These are believed, by Dr. Donald Schnell, to be hybrids (or can be thought of as hybrids) between the officially named variants which are (this list was produced by utilizing the CP Data Base): Sarracenia flava {L.}] Various: can have little or a lot of red, but the marking(s) should not match those of another named variant. Sarracenia flava {L.} var. atropurpurea {(Hort.Bull) Bell} All-red (a rather dark/solid red) form. Sarracenia flava {L.} var. cuprea {Schnell} Copper Top. Sarracenia flava {L.} var. maxima {Hort.Bull ex Mast.} No red markings produced, expect near wounds and on the growing buds. Sarracenia flava {L.} var. ornata {Hort.Bull ex Mast.} Extremely veined, with connected thin red lines on a solid, yellow/green background covering the top two thirds of the pitchers. The lines do not cross each other much, but keep branching and flowing parallel rather like a "tribal" tattoo. Sarracenia flava {L.} var. rubricorpora {Schnell} Red-tube, the red breaks up into thin lines as you reach the lid. Sarracenia flava {L.} var. rugelii {(Shuttlew. ex A.DC.) Mast.} Cut-throat, no other red markings (or very, very few). Basically, if it doesn't fit the description of any of the named variants and you cannot figure out which of them produced the plant you are looking at, you can place it in _S. flava flava_. You can find many of these growing together, but not always; some populations will contain a vast majority of only one of these types. What causes, or influences these color variants (besides of a particular plant's ancestry) is not known. I do not think you can produce a _S. flava atropurpurea_ by crossing _S. flava cuprea_ with _S. flava rubricorpora_, as the copper top is a different color of red and this leads me to think there are probably separate genes producing the copper topped plants. But you should, in theory, be able to, via selective breeding, to make any of these variants into cultivated varieties (cultivars) that also have a copper top. If it has a coppertop, then it is a copper top _S. flava_. Maybe not the best example of, but still the real deal. And not necessarily pure _S. flava cuprea_ :) The different looking plants can have attributes from several different color variants. Check out Dr. Schnell's article in CPN for more details. The red color in _S. flava_ and _S. oreophila_ only last until the beginning/middle of summer. After that neither species puts much or any energy into making new pitchers, but rather phyllodia (leaves used during winter). The nutrients in the pitchers from the spring/early summer are slowly re-absorbed into the plant and that apparently includes the red stuff. Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of Tre Bond Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 8:49 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Hey Everyone, I was wondering if S. flava var. cuprea came in different types? My question is because one of the bogs I visited on my trip (back a couple hours ago) probibly had flava var. cuprea. Oddly this was in NW Fl. S. flava var. rugelii, S. flava var ornata (not sure if pure), S. flava var. flava (hybrids maybe) and possibly one S. flava 'red tube' (what var?) were all present. Well I developed the pictures and a couple of the plants had copper-y tops. I also noticed this in the field. But one plant had pitchers that were intermediate between that and 'red tube'. These were younger plants (pitchers about 7 inches). I know less copper-y coloration is shown in shade but the plants were in full sun around the clock (in the middle of a savannah). So do you think these were real copper tops or not? Interestingly at the Pensacola Junior College plant sale (in Milton). I bought a S. flava labled 'Copper Top' (Not actually sure yet if it was cuprea). I talked to the guy and he said he had a bog in his yard and he worked with plant rescue groups/societies that do rescues. He said they were rescuing plants when they found a stand of S. flava 'copper top' since he was the only person with a bog he took all of them and planted them in his yard. He has been since raising them and selling them when he gets too many (Is that possible?). The plant rescue happened outside Milton so if these are true coppertops then I may have actually seen a few. ################### From: stephenwd at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Davis) Date: Mon Apr 4 20:28:24 2005 Subject: [CP] What time of year to repot Hey Alex, There are better growers than me that I hope will weigh in on this. I've become pretty lackadaisical about repotting. I prefer to repot when the plant are completely dormant, in December or January, but I've done it in the spring too. In fact I just repotted several. I don't have any way to tell you if it stunts growth that year...but I haven't lost any plants this way yet. The biggest problem with spring repotting is that the new pitchers are very easy to break, and I haven't seen any signs that a broken or cut pitcher will stimulate another one to grow in its' place like some plants do. Stephen Davis stephenwd@sbcglobal.net www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com -----Original Message----- Of Alex Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 6:10 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com I have a couple of pots of Sarracenia I need to re-pot. Any ideas on the best time of year to do this? I also need to clean some sedges out of my Sarr's. Will it hurt to bare root them and plant in new substrate? Alex Netherton Asheville, NC, US -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.1 - Release Date: 4/1/2005 _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu) Date: Mon Apr 4 20:42:44 2005 Subject: [CP] What time of year to repot Dear Alex, I have found it is best to transplant/divide perennials right before they break dormancy. Bare rooting dormant plants should not set them back, as most of the roots they will be using in the up coming season will grow when they come out of dormancy. Same for plants that are just breaking dormancy. If the new growth is just starting, transplanting and dividing will be fine unless you are rough on the plants' growth points. Now would be the time. Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of Alex Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 9:10 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com I have a couple of pots of Sarracenia I need to re-pot. Any ideas on the best time of year to do this? I also need to clean some sedges out of my Sarr's. Will it hurt to bare root them and plant in new substrate? Alex Netherton Asheville, NC, US ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Mon Apr 4 21:06:40 2005 Subject: [CP] cp watering (on mars) Marya-- i seriously know a lot of americans who wouldn't know which state is between texas and tennessee. er... me, for instance. Gary Kong "marya schultz" wrote: >so what types of water or water purifying techniques do you all use? the >ground/tapwater in my area is hard water and so contains way too many >minerals for cp use. i've been wondering about rainwater, tho. this area >gets quite a bit of rain most of the year so collecting enough of it isn't >really an issue. btw - the smoky mountain area of the appalachian mountain >range is actually considered a rainforest! i'm close enough to reap the >benefits of this. > >and east TN (where i live) is actually pretty far from texas. there's a >whole other state between the two. you are forgiven tho, as it is true that >most americans probly couldn't even find europe on a map, let alone england, >for that matter. (sigh) and to think at one time i wanted to be a >teacher..... > >mars >marsintenn@hotmail.com >yes there is life on me > > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: stephenwd at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Davis) Date: Mon Apr 4 21:43:32 2005 Subject: [CP] cp watering (on mars) If you go west to go from Texas to Tennessee it's pretty much all of them. ;-) Stephen Davis stephenwd@sbcglobal.net www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com -----Original Message----- Of Gary Kong Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 9:06 PM To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Marya-- i seriously know a lot of americans who wouldn't know which state is between texas and tennessee. er... me, for instance. Gary Kong "marya schultz" wrote: >so what types of water or water purifying techniques do you all use? the >ground/tapwater in my area is hard water and so contains way too many >minerals for cp use. i've been wondering about rainwater, tho. this area >gets quite a bit of rain most of the year so collecting enough of it isn't >really an issue. btw - the smoky mountain area of the appalachian mountain >range is actually considered a rainforest! i'm close enough to reap the >benefits of this. > >and east TN (where i live) is actually pretty far from texas. there's a >whole other state between the two. you are forgiven tho, as it is true that >most americans probly couldn't even find europe on a map, let alone england, >for that matter. (sigh) and to think at one time i wanted to be a >teacher..... > >mars >marsintenn@hotmail.com >yes there is life on me > > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: marsintenn at hotmail.com (marya schultz) Date: Mon Apr 4 23:19:30 2005 Subject: [CP] Breeding program at zoo i think, perhaps i miscommunicated. i am lucky enough to work at the zoo; however, i am not yet lucky enough to work in the herpetology dept. :( believe me, it's not for lack of trying. unfortunately, there's a lot of competition for keeper jobs; so far i've been beat out by people who are more experienced. so i don't get to go out to the bogs. :( the bog turtle project in the pet project of the head of our herp dept, and he's beyond super secretive. it's almost funny how protective he is of his babies and their homes. i have considered getting into the rattlesnake field work studies. phil is usually open to other zoo employees coming along and helping out, but time is ever an issue. -mars marsintenn@hotmail.com yes there is life on me >Message: 1 >Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 15:40:18 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) >From: "WildLifeGardener" >Subject: [CP] Breeding program at zoo >To: >Message-ID: <425054B2.000001.03796@D7GMRC11> >Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Looks as if Mars has a great job, "i'm lucky enough to work at the zoo in >knoxville, and we've got a great bunch of people here. several of the guys >in the herpetology dept have been doing field reasearch locally with >rattlesnakes and with bog turtles. we've got some phenominal breeding >projects going in the herp dept as well, and the bog turtle project has >even been doing breed and release work." Lucky you! Don't you ever run into CPs when you are out and about working? I helped a friend conduct a herp survey and ran into D. rotundifolia in a location that I would have never dreamed it would be and it doesn't show up in the County even for the Illinois Survey. Rather exciting. Sadly, I can't even post photographs of the Drosera I found as all volunteers sign really nice documents that beyond discourage same. Disclosure of site location would mean the loss of one's good professional reputation in the community and we're talking basic D. rotundifolia here. > ################### From: cplistserv at carnivorousplant.com (Joseph Clemens) Date: Mon Apr 4 23:40:12 2005 Subject: [CP] What time of year to repot I propagate, divide, repot, whenever the mood strikes me. I have a reputation for turning one plant into many very quickly. Good growing, Joseph Clemens -----Original Message----- Of dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 8:42 PM To: alexnetherton@charter.net; 'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group' Dear Alex, I have found it is best to transplant/divide perennials right before they break dormancy. Bare rooting dormant plants should not set them back, as most of the roots they will be using in the up coming season will grow when they come out of dormancy. Same for plants that are just breaking dormancy. If the new growth is just starting, transplanting and dividing will be fine unless you are rough on the plants' growth points. Now would be the time. Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of Alex Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 9:10 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com I have a couple of pots of Sarracenia I need to re-pot. Any ideas on the best time of year to do this? I also need to clean some sedges out of my Sarr's. Will it hurt to bare root them and plant in new substrate? Alex Netherton Asheville, NC, US _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: stovehouse at earthlink.net (Michael Hunt) Date: Tue Apr 5 06:43:53 2005 Subject: [CP] wetlands in the coastal plain Beaufort County is used as a example and it is located in the extreme southeastern part of the state north of Savannah GA. It is a rich habitat at this date for cp, however as the suburbs extend south from Charleston and Hilton Head the habitats are in question. Within the best areas in Beaufort County for cp, cypress swamps, & pocosins the zoning is dim. While some land will be held for natural areas the projected zoning now allows for about 24,000 people to live within this area. Already built are a couple of projects with a population in the range of 10,500. Average annual rainfall for Beaufort County ranges between 40-58 inches. Average monthly precipitation is 4.1 inches; median monthly rainfall, 3.9 inches. The peak period of precipitation lasts from early May through mid-September. The span represents about two-thirds of the growing season for vegetation. During this time, the atmosphere and plants remove a substantial volume of water from the ground through evapotranspiration. On the Atlantic Coastal Plain, this process may remove more than 30 inches of water from land each year. Such "uptake" by vegetation is why uplands and many wetlands are drier in summer than in winter. Often one would think a severe drought is taking place when they hike a wetland in late June that can get worse as summer moves on towards fall, and report to others that the plants look awful due to drought. But that may not be true in most cases. The Sarracenia pitchers fill with bugs quickly and then fall into decay. It appears that most Sarracenia take a dormant period in heat of mid summer. Some species such as S. flava are simply spring growers and don't produce any vigorous growth after mid to late May in habitat in general. It seems the normal course of how the cp grow. Though the soil may appear as hard as rock in fact the plants survive this with roots digging deep into the soil (Sarracenia). Sincerely, Michael Hunt St. Petersburg Florida ################### From: Writerguy67 at aol.com (Writerguy67@aol.com) Date: Tue Apr 5 08:33:20 2005 Subject: [CP] cp watering (on mars) and if you go north (and east) .... it's Arkansas. ################### From: parsont at peak.org (Louise Parsons) Date: Tue Apr 5 11:14:48 2005 Subject: [CP] What time of year to repot To the question of re-potting. When do you CP experts separate and pot-up newly germinated seedlings? I have some pots of "babies", grown from seed purchased from Cook's, that germinated nearly a year ago. They are adorable, but I am shy to handle them. The pots of Sarracenia leucophylla and Sarracenia hybrids mix, especially, have a good germination. Some plants don't mind the eventual crowding, but others get deep roots very quickly. Do even the tiny youngsters grow new roots every year? I don't want to damage them. Any and all advice appreciated. Cheers, Louise, who is like a mother hen clucking over her seedlings! Willamette Valley, Oregon, now once again rainy. ################### From: hkobayashi4 at hotmail.com (Hideka Kobayashi) Date: Tue Apr 5 13:03:24 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Illinois CPers and anyone from the Milwaukee area I was in Urbana-Champaign area, but re-located tp KY lately. UIUC has some collection, but it's declining. I attribute it to the woman who is taking care of this. Hideka ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Tue Apr 5 13:19:10 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: flava Hey Everyone, I beleve I mis-communicated since I do not know the flava cultivars only most of their var. names. let me try again as Dave's letter made me think this. The hybrid with S. flava cuprea would have been with S. flava rubricorpora and the hybrid would have looked like S. flava rubricopora wiht a copper top not atropurpurea. Sorry for that confusion. I looked at Schnell's book agian and I beleve I only saw a few actual S. flava var. ornata but his book seemes to have an exaple that is more heavily veined then the plants I have seen in person (In the wild, the ones I own, and in other collections) well all but a couple (two) in the wild. Many S. flava var. rugelli were present. Along with many veined plants that were lass veined then Schnell's close-up of ornata. They were more heavily veined then var. flava b/c the viens extended down the outside of the pitcher. No 'cut throut' was present on many of these so I doubt they were hybrids with rugelli. They could have been hybrids between ornata and var. flava but I don't think so b/c no plants in the bog matched Schnell's pictures and losely fit his description. For an idea of what the plants look like I suggest looking in last year's CPN with the article on S. oreophila on the picture of the heavily veined plant. Although that may even have a few too many. I am borrowing a scanner this week-end and will try to get pictures on-line. Off topic but has an anthro. free S. oreo ever been found? Tre Message: 4 To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" Message-ID: <000201c53986$d20c0090$22aba8c0@ad.ess.rutgers.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Tre, Yes, there many intermediate forms of _S. flava_. These are believed, by Dr. Donald Schnell, to be hybrids (or can be thought of as hybrids) between the officially named variants which are (this list was produced by utilizing the CP Data Base): Sarracenia flava {L.}] Various: can have little or a lot of red, but the marking(s) should not match those of another named variant. Sarracenia flava {L.} var. atropurpurea {(Hort.Bull) Bell} All-red (a rather dark/solid red) form. Sarracenia flava {L.} var. cuprea {Schnell} Copper Top. Sarracenia flava {L.} var. maxima {Hort.Bull ex Mast.} No red markings produced, expect near wounds and on the growing buds. Sarracenia flava {L.} var. ornata {Hort.Bull ex Mast.} Extremely veined, with connected thin red lines on a solid, yellow/green background covering the top two thirds of the pitchers. The lines do not cross each other much, but keep branching and flowing parallel rather like a "tribal" tattoo. Sarracenia flava {L.} var. rubricorpora {Schnell} Red-tube, the red breaks up into thin lines as you reach the lid. Sarracenia flava {L.} var. rugelii {(Shuttlew. ex A.DC.) Mast.} Cut-throat, no other red markings (or very, very few). Basically, if it doesn't fit the description of any of the named variants and you cannot figure out which of them produced the plant you are looking at, you can place it in _S. flava flava_. You can find many of these growing together, but not always; some populations will contain a vast majority of only one of these types. What causes, or influences these color variants (besides of a particular plant's ancestry) is not known. I do not think you can produce a _S. flava atropurpurea_ by crossing _S. flava cuprea_ with _S. flava rubricorpora_, as the copper top is a different color of red and this leads me to think there are probably separate genes producing the copper topped plants. But you should, in theory, be able to, via selective breeding, to make any of these variants into cultivated varieties (cultivars) that also have a copper top. If it has a coppertop, then it is a copper top _S. flava_. Maybe not the best example of, but still the real deal. And not necessarily pure _S. flava cuprea_ :) The different looking plants can have attributes from several different color variants. Check out Dr. Schnell's article in CPN for more details. The red color in _S. flava_ and _S. oreophila_ only last until the beginning/middle of summer. After that neither species puts much or any energy into making new pitchers, but rather phyllodia (leaves used during winter). The nutrients in the pitchers from the spring/early summer are slowly re-absorbed into the plant and that apparently includes the red stuff. Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com ################### From: MKing1 at compuserve.com (Michael King) Date: Tue Apr 5 14:23:55 2005 Subject: [CP] Cp Digest, Vol 23, Issue 5 Message text written by INTERNET:Cp@omnisterra.com >Contrary to previous opinions, I believe CITES does apply when shipping plants between EU States. The National Council for the Conservation of Plants and Gardens made it sound a big deal when they announced they had negotiated a mass exemption for National Collection Holders. However it doesn't seem to be enforced, as Collection Holders observed when the announcement was made. Someone mentioned human rights - the UK has implemented a full version of the Human Rights Act, and one of the rights it bestows is the right to operate a business. A Human Rights Lawyer could argue that the Human Rights Act takes precedence over CITES and so if a business could show it was being harmed by CITES, the owners could claim compensation for the violation of their human rights. NigelH < Hi Nigel, CITES between EU states only applies to re-export of that specimen from plants acquired from outside the EU. From propagated stock, it doesn't apply. CITES is not really a hinderance; its a question of form filling, time and (very soon) more expense Best Regards Mike King www.carnivorousplants.uk.com ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Tue Apr 5 15:23:54 2005 Subject: [CP] Wanted: Utricularia radiata Any one has native Utricularia radiata ? Wolf ################### From: CANDILUBBEN at peoplepc.com (chris lubben) Date: Tue Apr 5 16:40:42 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 22, Issue 33 Sounds like this is the place to visit on the way to the Dells, my first bog adventure although it may only be on the trails. I'm sure my wife will appreciate that. All the secret locations and hush hush in the recent "flamewar" is nothing new to a Morel hunter in Illinios. It's not like they grow on trees ya know. Just under them ! Most guys take their locations to the grave even in family circles. The real secret is to know when, where and how bad you want to find them (sound familiar ?) Crawling through the underbrush, picking off ticks, smiling at passersby (knowing full well why you all are there), climbing through the multiflora rose and realizing your on a coyote den hearing the pups but still going for the 25 8" mushrooms you see within reach.....I digress. Thanks everyone for the bog garden info I've recieved, it will be most helpful. Hopefully this summer will prove fruitful with the ICPS seeds and I'll have lots to trade next year. Thanks Again Chris Lubben Message: 13 > Hey Laura, Lisa, etc., > > I'll second Lisa's comments on Volo Bog. A very nice place to see deep > into > a bog, although there are very few CP easily visible there (Some > Utricularia > macrorhiza, and a few Sarracenia purpurea that looked suspiciously as if > they were planted by the boardwalk for your viewing....). I don't recall > Drosera rotundifolia occurring there, but wouldn't be surprised. > > http://www.sarracenia.com/photos/habitats/habil03.jpg > http://www.sarracenia.com/photos/habitats/habil04.jpg > > A great place to see POISON SUMAC, of course: > http://www.sarracenia.com/photos/miscplant/tvern01.jpg > > While in the area, I suggest you look at the site...uh...I think it is > called Moraine Hills State Park. I've been there and had a good time > finding > Utricularia macrorhiza and U. intermedia. > > http://www.sarracenia.com/photos/utricularia/umacr03.jpg > > > The boardwalk, however, was in need of repair: > > http://www.sarracenia.com/photos/habitats/habil02.jpg > > A pretty place, however. > >Cheers > > Barry > > Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. > Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor > The International Carnivorous Plant Society > http://www.carnivorousplants.org > > >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> From: "Lisa Koester" >> Hi Laura and all... >> >> Volo bog is a great place! We had our herpetological society >> picnic there >> one year. >> Group organization isn't all that difficult... pick a location (with >> permission of course), date and time and the rest does itself >> once a core >> group is established. Problem is finding people willing to >> drive. We're >> spread thin, too..... ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu) Date: Tue Apr 5 18:10:41 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: flava Dear Tre, My letter was more than what you asked about, since it is rather difficult to understand just what the plants you saw looked like (w/o viewing a photo), so I figured I would just cover all of variants. Also, I wanted to demonstrate that our knowledge of _S. flava_ is incomplete. Do we know that all of these color variants merely blend together and back apart as the generations pass as Dr. Donald Schnell seems to indicate, or are some red features following Mendel's dominant/recessive rules of expression? Dr. Schnell has mentioned that more work needs to be done in this area, I agree. I suspect that _S. flava maxima_ and _S. flava rugelii_ are not produced by blending/separating. I have seen some plants which have a green cut throat that can be seen when viewed at certain angles. So perhaps two separate alleles need to be present to produce a true _S. flava rugelii_??? BTW, it appears to me that _S. flava_ is a dumping ground for traits from _S. purpurea_ (or visa versa), via _S. catesbaei_ and not directly. Nearly all of the color forms seen in _S. flava_ also seem to have a counter part in _S. purpurea_. (Has anyone else noticed this or are they "just purps" and don't require the viewer to expend the energy needed for a second glance?) Like-wise, there is a different species of _S. purpurea_, _S. rosea_, in Florida and there we find different color varieties of _S. flava_, which cannot be found along the east coast where there are no _S. rosea_. There is no known reason for this, but I have my suspicions. I am unaware of _S. flava_ cultivars. I was just indicating that you, Tre, might be able to make some new ones if you felt like it. No antho-free, or more accurately, "all-green" _S. oreophila_ has been found yet. Or at least no one has let us know about it. Good growing, Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of Tre Bond Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 4:19 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Hey Everyone, I beleve I mis-communicated since I do not know the flava cultivars only most of their var. names. let me try again as Dave's letter made me think this. The hybrid with S. flava cuprea would have been with S. flava rubricorpora and the hybrid would have looked like S. flava rubricopora wiht a copper top not atropurpurea. Sorry for that confusion. I looked at Schnell's book agian and I beleve I only saw a few actual S. flava var. ornata but his book seemes to have an exaple that is more heavily veined then the plants I have seen in person (In the wild, the ones I own, and in other collections) well all but a couple (two) in the wild. Many S. flava var. rugelli were present. Along with many veined plants that were lass veined then Schnell's close-up of ornata. They were more heavily veined then var. flava b/c the viens extended down the outside of the pitcher. No 'cut throut' was present on many of these so I doubt they were hybrids with rugelli. They could have been hybrids between ornata and var. flava but I don't think so b/c no plants in the bog matched Schnell's pictures and losely fit his description. For an idea of what the plants look like I suggest looking in last year's CPN with the article on S. oreophila on the picture of the heavily veined plant. Although that may even have a few too many. I am borrowing a scanner this week-end and will try to get pictures on-line. Off topic but has an anthro. free S. oreo ever been found? Tre ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Tue Apr 5 21:23:08 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Illinois CPers and anyone from the Milwaukee area When I was at the UIUC back in the early eighties, there was a curator named Jim in a greenhouse located at Wright and Green streets. He had a fairly good collection of CP in the greenhouse, and when I left town, he was the recipient of my modest collection. I know that that particular greenhouse is long gone, and I imagine that Jim is, as well. But whatever collection UIUC has undoubtedly started from his beginnings. In a message dated 4/5/2005 1:03:50 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, hkobayashi4@hotmail.com writes: I was in Urbana-Champaign area, but re-located tp KY lately. UIUC has some collection, but it's declining. I attribute it to the woman who is taking care of this. TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: ClaraVoiAunt at aol.com (ClaraVoiAunt@aol.com) Date: Tue Apr 5 22:42:56 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 23, Issue 6 Alex, If you have any Superthrive or vit B make a solution and soak the rhizomes in it for 15 to 20 Minutes. This is not necessary, but lessens the chance of transplant shock. I use this method all the time and even have plants, that broke away from the main rhizome, develop roots. I continue to transplant sometimes until the middle of June. After that, I have very poor transplant results . I live In Sonoma County CA Zone 8b-9a in the heart of whine country. Thanx for listenin' and keep 'em plants growin'. Lois In a message dated 4/5/2005 12:02:40 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: -----Original Message----- Of Alex Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 6:10 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com I have a couple of pots of Sarracenia I need to re-pot. Any ideas on the best time of year to do this? I also need to clean some sedges out of my Sarr's. Will it hurt to bare root them and plant in new substrate? Alex Netherton Asheville, NC, US ################### From: jcreef at bellsouth.net (Juan-Carlos) Date: Tue Apr 5 23:29:21 2005 Subject: [CP] Lets get into the technicalities of halide Lighting! Metal halide lighting, I have 1,000's of watts running in my house for my reef aquariums. and I use an array of diffrent bulbs with diffrent kelvin temperatures. For those of you that do not know what kelvin is, its simply a way to measure the color of the light produced by a bulb. Example a 5,500Kelvin bulb is very yellowish, 6,500K is still yellowish but a bit whiter, 10,000k is supposed to be a crisper white 20,000k is whitelight more towards the blue spectrum. in other words the higher the kelvin the bluer the light. the higher the kelvin means less PAR aswell. so you compromise one for the other. For my reef tanks I use 10,000k 13,000k and 20,000k I am thinking since I have a couple spare ballasts laying around of putting some over my Cp's. What bulbs do you guys use and specific kelvin? specific brand? any observations of growth and color of plants depending on diffrent bulbs? might be an interesting topic to cover. Juan-Carlos Miami, Florida ################### From: john.wilden at hmce.gsi.gov.uk (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) Date: Tue Apr 5 23:38:48 2005 Subject: [CP] repotting Sarra's I have a couple of pots of Sarracenia I need to re-pot. Any ideas on the best time of year to do this? I also need to clean some sedges out of my Sarr's. Will it hurt to bare root them and plant in new substrate? Alex Netherton Asheville, NC, US Alex, As others have said now is probably the best time for both types of re-potting (northern hemisphere anyway!). One word of caution though, if you have any red flava forms then bare-rooting them can lead to them dropping their red colouration for ,average, 1 to 2 years (although I have one cutting that still isn't showing its 'burgundy' colouring after 3 years). With these type of plants I rarely now bareroot them. Instead I use a kitchen knife, select a part of the rhizome that has a growing point and check that it has roots by excavating around the rhizome. If it has roots then it gets chopped and transplanted. Others may be able to tell you about using peat tea to bring the colouration back. I've never tried it, but may give it a go this year if the aforementioned tardy plant doesn't start blushing red soon! Regards John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Wed Apr 6 08:56:41 2005 Subject: [CP] A new Green Swamp threat Hey Folks, It has come to my attention that the Governor of North Carolina is strongly advocating an extension of Interstate 74 through the Green Swamp. The proposed Green Swamp corridor will follow just west of Hwy 211, and may actually pass through the edge of "Big Island" in The Swamp. Surveying has already begun in Supply. This is exceptionally bad news. I'll report more when I find out more. I'll be travelling in North Carolina soon, and may get more information. In the meantime, keep your web browser active with relevant searches such as "Interstate Green Swamp" to learn more. This development is quite depressing. Later Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Director of Conservation Programs The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Wed Apr 6 10:00:30 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: lava rock / granite gravel Hi Bob and all, Slack's book mentions using granite dust as an alternate medium for potting Darlingtonia. I collected a heap of granite gravel from roadside slides in the local mountains. It was quite clean. I sifted out the larger particles with a spaghetti strainer. The pH is neutral. I have used it in planting a number of sundews and pings in small pots. It works fine and I like the way it looks. The downside is its weight and you have to plug up the pot holes otherwise it runs out. Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California >I would wash it to remove the soil or other contaminants. you might even smash it with a hammer if you want smaller particle size. ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Wed Apr 6 12:26:23 2005 Subject: [CP] S. purp variations (was: flava) Hey Dave, I certainly agree with you---the color variations in S. purpurea are certainly under-appreciated. I think it is because the pitcher has been squeezed into such a short structure. The rugelii throat splotch is shortened to a band. But if you take just a second to appreciate the color variation in purps, especially (IMHO) S.purpurea subsp. purpurea, you really get impressed. B P.S. There are a number of S. flava cultivars, of Slack origin. > Nearly all of the color forms seen in _S. flava_ also seem to > have a counter part in _S. purpurea_. (Has anyone else > noticed this or are they "just purps" and don't require the > viewer to expend the energy needed for a second > glance?) Like-wise, there is a different species of _S. > purpurea_, _S. > rosea_, in Florida and there we find different color varieties of _S. > flava_, which cannot be found along the east coast where > there are no _S. > rosea_. There is no known reason for this, but I have my suspicions. Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Wed Apr 6 13:08:52 2005 Subject: [CP] Product review in CPN Hey Folks, If you've gotten your CPN, you might have read about the steamed-in-the-can crickets, caterpillars, snails, etc in the product review that I wrote about things you can buy to feed your plants. Well, last night I discovered a new use for the steamed caterpillars (which I keep in my freezer). I pulled out a couple, hid them in my hand, and nonchalantly walked up to my wife (who was relaxing, reading a book). I made a show of coughing, gagging, and pointing curiously to my chest. Then I coughed into my hand, blowing the two grey, nasty caterpillars onto the pillow next to her. The results were most excellent. Cheers Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Wed Apr 6 13:27:52 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: flavas + my leuco theory Well Everyone and mostly Dave, Like I said I hope to have photos soon. I realize flava is very complex and accnolage tha I have not seen enough to know much about it. I have read everything I could about it but Schnell's work is the most comprehensive and accurate. One of my points is (this helps if you have schnell;s book handy) the flava var. ornata he pictured seems to have many more viens then any I own, have seen, or any pictures I have seen save a few. I beleve a current poblem with plants in cultivation now is rarly do people use the correct var. usually they use cultivar names which according to the ICPS website are non-existant. Most plants in cultivation are probibly var. flava but I have seen plants both near Wilmington and in NW Fl. The Wilminton stand had one ornata which was remarkable along with "pure" var. flava, hybrids, and maybe some others. (www.geocities.com/Treaqum1/FieldTrips.html I think has a picture or two). If flava var. flava were not so prolific in certain areas I for one would consider it a hybrid between ornata and either maxima or rugelii. In NW Florida I don't recall seeing any ornata like plants with the rugelli "cut throat". Just veination. I have not noticed purps and flava's being similar. Jsut on the basis that of the several thousand (literally) flavas in NW florida I saw I saw no hybrids with S. purpurea ssp. venosa var. burkeii (supposrting Schnell's arguments). Usually purps grew in or very near water but not near flava. Oddly purps seemed more segragated. I found flava growing with them once along with psitts. but no hybrids could be found. I have seen many many leucos and these have readily had hybrids with flava (from ones looking near leucos except for the curled back hood, to one flava var. rugelli that had areolata). I have seen leuco hybrids with purps and possibly leuco hybrids with rubra ssp. wherryi (caould not tell due to lack of growth). I walso own a S. leuco x. rubra ssp. gulfensis that looks like leuco but with pinkish veining and slight characteristics of rubra ssp. gulfensis. I would go so far to say three different types or var. of leucos are around: 1) leucos wiht veining that is purpleish, green, or red that has no bleeding but the veins are visible. These show no charactersitics not typical of leucophylla and could be considered 'typical' even though they occur in a lower ratio but are much closer to what has been defined as pure leuco. As the pitcher opens the veining is most purple but many plants continue to have this feaure especially near the edge of the hood. (purple may be defined as marroon). The flowers are deep dark red (dark brick red). 2) leucos with veining that is red that bleeds some what into the white making the top not appear pure white but more red and white mixed. These occur most frequently, grow true from seed, and grow in stands with no other Sarr species or hybrids around. These usually have an abundance of pitchers with average height or 2-2.5 feet (0.5-0.7 meters). The flowers are a lighter color (red x brick red) then the very dark brick red characteristic to the first section. 3) leucos with green veining such that of 'Schnell's Ghost', 'Hurricane Creek White', 'Green vein'. These plants are not anthro free but have very very "pure" white pitchers. The flower color varies between the above two but the pitchers always have green veining with very little red anywhere except the flower and growth point. Thes plants occur at a few small rate except in the Hurricane Creek seepage area (Well the couple of places I stopped at that still exist near Hurricane Creek). These plants occur at an average of 3-7 per average bog (about 1000-2000 plants). They caould not possibley be mistaken because htey are so striking. Tre Bond ################### From: ed.mcdowell at cox.net (ed.mcdowell) Date: Wed Apr 6 13:39:17 2005 Subject: [CP] repotting Sarra's John, I am a newcomer. Tell me your recipe for peat tea, please. Ed McDowell Bonaire, Ga -----Original Message----- [mailto:john.wilden@hmce.gsi.gov.uk] Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 02:40 To: CP chatgroup (E-mail) I have a couple of pots of Sarracenia I need to re-pot. Any ideas on the best time of year to do this? I also need to clean some sedges out of my Sarr's. Will it hurt to bare root them and plant in new substrate? Alex Netherton Asheville, NC, US Alex, As others have said now is probably the best time for both types of re-potting (northern hemisphere anyway!). One word of caution though, if you have any red flava forms then bare-rooting them can lead to them dropping their red colouration for ,average, 1 to 2 years (although I have one cutting that still isn't showing its 'burgundy' colouring after 3 years). With these type of plants I rarely now bareroot them. Instead I use a kitchen knife, select a part of the rhizome that has a growing point and check that it has roots by excavating around the rhizome. If it has roots then it gets chopped and transplanted. Others may be able to tell you about using peat tea to bring the colouration back. I've never tried it, but may give it a go this year if the aforementioned tardy plant doesn't start blushing red soon! Regards John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ################### From: cp at pwilson.demon.co.uk (Phil Wilson) Date: Wed Apr 6 14:27:39 2005 Subject: [CP] Cp Digest, Vol 23, Issue 5 Mike, >CITES between EU states only applies to re-export of that specimen >from plants acquired from outside the EU. From propagated stock, it doesn't >apply. CITES is not really a hinderance; its a question of form filling, >time and (very soon) more expense Mike is referring to the proposed hike in CITES permit applications, currently ?7 or ?5 per species, which are due to be raised to something around the ?120 figure per application I believe. This will have the effect of making small imports and exports uneconomical though for permit applications of a larger number of species it actually makes it cheaper. Some cunning people have caught onto the fact that CITES permits can be obtained from any member country within the EU, in theory at least. The latest CITES bulletin refers to this veiled threat. http://www.ukcites.gov.uk/license/CITES%20Bulletin%2020%20December%202004.pdf Hopefully the politicians will see sense and will not implement what will effectively be the highest charges for CITES permit applications certainly in the EU and quite likely in the world. It's good to see the UK leading the rest of the world again though.... Regards, Phil ################### From: jcumbee at alltel.net (Joe Cumbee) Date: Wed Apr 6 14:33:18 2005 Subject: [CP] Product review in CPN So you like sleeping on the sofa - do you? -----Original Message----- Of Barry Rice Hey Folks, If you've gotten your CPN, you might have read about the steamed-in-the-can crickets, caterpillars, snails, etc in the product review that I wrote about things you can buy to feed your plants. Well, last night I discovered a new use for the steamed caterpillars (which I keep in my freezer). I pulled out a couple, hid them in my hand, and nonchalantly walked up to my wife (who was relaxing, reading a book). I made a show of coughing, gagging, and pointing curiously to my chest. Then I coughed into my hand, blowing the two grey, nasty caterpillars onto the pillow next to her. The results were most excellent. Cheers Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Wed Apr 6 14:58:51 2005 Subject: [CP] Cp Digest, Vol 23, Issue 5 Phil Wilson wrote: > Hopefully the politicians will see sense and will not implement what > will effectively be the highest charges for CITES permit applications > certainly in the EU and quite likely in the world. It's good to see the > UK leading the rest of the world again though.... Perhaps this will the key political element in the PM race. Have a chat with Michael Howard about it. ################### From: h7n at talk21.com (Nigel Hurneyman) Date: Thu Apr 7 03:13:24 2005 Subject: [CP] Drosera stelliflora sniffers wanted I've been round my flowering pygmies giving them all a sniff. Scent detection is very subjective, but I'm compiling a list of species (and forms) that I think have scent. One that's causing me a problem is Drosera stelliflora - I think I can detect a faint scent but it's right on my limit and I'm not 100% sure. I'd be grateful if anyone else growing this species could have a sniff and report back to me. One species that seems rather variable is Drosera dichrosepala. The principal form that I grow, from Mount Manypeaks, is definitely scented (I think I may have a few viable gemmae still on the plants so if you're going to the UK CPS AGM, ask and if I get the time to harvest them, I'll bring some along for you). I've seen some new Drosera dichrosepala location names recently - I'd be interested to know if those plants are scented. Another variable species is Drosera scorpioides. Further to what I reported last year, I now have pink and white flowered plants from Gidgegannup and both are scented. NigelH Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ################### From: it_290 at hotmail.com (mike wilder) Date: Thu Apr 7 08:32:31 2005 Subject: [CP] seeking meredith griffith hello, if you are on this list will meredith griffith please email me? mike wilder www.geocities.com/pingenstein ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Thu Apr 7 08:59:02 2005 Subject: [CP] D.meristocaulis update Hello to all who are attempting to germinate D.meristocaulis or have already succeeded in doing so. I've been travelling a lot for work over the past 2 months (and doing a little CPing on the side too, but nothing too exciting) and would like to hear from all of you. Has anybody else had luck germinating seeds? What about those of you who already had germination, how are the plants doing? How many leaves do they have? Have any of them flower yet?? Yeah sure!! Hahaha! ;) Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Thu Apr 7 10:08:54 2005 Subject: [CP] Utricularia erectiflora photos Fernando Rivadavia sent me three photos of U. erectiflora, which he asked that I post for him. I chose to retain the original format. Also the file size is about 175KB each. http://www.humboldt.edu/~rrz7001/Rivadavia/U_erectiflora_Porto_Seguro_Bahia1.jpg http://www.humboldt.edu/~rrz7001/Rivadavia/U_erectiflora_Porto_Seguro_Bahia2.jpg http://www.humboldt.edu/~rrz7001/Rivadavia/U_erectiflora_Porto_Seguro_Bahia3.jpg In his email, Fernando said: "Two weeks ago I was exploring beachside habitats in the state of Bahia, NE Brazil, and discovered a site with D. intermedia and U. erectiflora in the town of Porto Seguro." -Bob- ################### From: ullsperg at hotmail.com (Chris Ullsperger) Date: Thu Apr 7 12:54:31 2005 Subject: [CP] disgusting comedy "I made a show of coughing, gagging, and pointing curiously to my chest. Then I coughed into my hand, blowing the two grey, nasty caterpillars onto the pillow next to her. The results were most excellent." Geebus, and I thought I had a sick sense of humor. ################### From: MHowlett at hcp4.net (Howlett, Mike) Date: Thu Apr 7 13:52:42 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Can-o-Bugs Barry - Most assuredly, this is NOT one of the uses I mentioned! I'm glad your wife has a sense of humor to match your own; were I to try the same, there is a high degree of probability that I would end up in traction in a hospital! Sounds like a great thing to do to all the little munchkins that come to the door at Halloween, though... Mike Howlett Naturalist, Herpetoculturist & Carnivorous Plant Enthusiast Jesse H. Jones Park & Nature Center 20634 Kenswick Drive Humble, TX 77338 281-446-8588 mhowlett@hcp4.net www.hcp4.net/jones And Owner - Houston Herpetological Supply Retail Sales of Reptiles, Supplies, Frodents and (of course) Carnivorous Plants www.houstonherp.com info@houstonherp.com 281-433-3286 -----Original Message----- Message: 2 To: Message-ID: <200504062008.j36K8gGg011307@warsaw.ucdavis.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey Folks, If you've gotten your CPN, you might have read about the steamed-in-the-can crickets, caterpillars, snails, etc in the product review that I wrote about things you can buy to feed your plants. Well, last night I discovered a new use for the steamed caterpillars (which I keep in my freezer). I pulled out a couple, hid them in my hand, and nonchalantly walked up to my wife (who was relaxing, reading a book). I made a show of coughing, gagging, and pointing curiously to my chest. Then I coughed into my hand, blowing the two grey, nasty caterpillars onto the pillow next to her. The results were most excellent. Cheers Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: CALIFCARN at aol.com (CALIFCARN@aol.com) Date: Thu Apr 7 14:30:50 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Southern California Spring Garden Show ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Thu Apr 7 15:01:14 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Barry and Fernando Hey Everyone, Barry you should have video taped the results. I bet it was really funny even though I am sure you got in major trouble. No luck on my Drosera seed germination yet. Tre ################### From: marsintenn at hotmail.com (marya schultz) Date: Thu Apr 7 22:19:37 2005 Subject: [CP] North Carolina Hwy project hmm. doing a google search now, but please keep us posted on anything you may find out. i know some of my co-workers would find this interesting/distressing as well as at least one close friend who lives in NC. mars marsintenn@hotmail.com "Every man and every woman is a star." -- AL. I. 3 >Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 08:56:33 -0700 >From: "Barry Rice" >Subject: [CP] A new Green Swamp threat >To: >Message-ID: <200504061556.j36FuXe8003904@warsaw.ucdavis.edu> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > >Hey Folks, > >It has come to my attention that the Governor of North Carolina is strongly >advocating an extension of Interstate 74 through the Green Swamp. The >proposed Green Swamp corridor will follow just west of Hwy 211, and may >actually pass through the edge of "Big Island" in The Swamp. Surveying has >already begun in Supply. > >This is exceptionally bad news. I'll report more when I find out more. I'll >be travelling in North Carolina soon, and may get more information. In the >meantime, keep your web browser active with relevant searches such as >"Interstate Green Swamp" to learn more. > >This development is quite depressing. > >Later > >Barry > >Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. >Director of Conservation Programs >The International Carnivorous Plant Society >http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: marsintenn at hotmail.com (marya schultz) Date: Thu Apr 7 22:34:14 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 23, Issue 6 ok, so rainwater is good. i'm gathering from your post that a brita might suffice if rain gets hard to come by. yes, no, maybe? i have at least two brita pitchers packed up out in may garage. i used to use them when i lived in an old apartment building back in Allentown, PA. the water from our pipes there used to leave an orangeish filmy ring in my dog's water bowl, so i just started using the pitchers for all the drinking water. they also worked nicely when we were staying with my dave's parents before we bought our house. they (his parents) had well water with a higher sulfer content. i seemed to be the only one in the house who really noticed it, i just couldn't drink the tap-water at all, the smell bothered me that much. the brita definately helped there too. i had given passing thought to using it for cps, but just wasn't sure how good of a filtration system it would prove to be. anyone else have any input on this? mars marsintenn@hotmail.com "Every man and every woman is a star." -- AL. I. 3 >Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 17:09:38 -0400 >From: writerguy67@aol.com >Subject: Re: [CP] cp watering (on mars) >To: Cp@omnisterra.com >Message-ID: <8C70771BEBFD918-6A8-2B343@mblk-r35.sysops.aol.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >I agree, Marya .... rainwater is best (and least expensive). > >For some of my indoor CP (and when I get tired of springing for distilled >water), I bought an aquarium tap water purifier ... it's designed for >Chiclids, and is made by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals. It's like a big Brita or >Pur filter (charcoal and resin beads). The initial purchase (the filter >thingy with hoses, attachments, etc.) was about $30. The filters (good for >between 50 to 150 gallons, they say, depending on the water) are about $20. >Probably ways to get them at a discount online. It can process about 10 >gallons an hour, and it's powered by the water pressure. > >Jay Lechtman >Northern Virginia, USA > ################### From: ClaraVoiAunt at aol.com (ClaraVoiAunt@aol.com) Date: Thu Apr 7 22:49:37 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 23, Issue 8 re caterpillars. Hey there Barry, Tell your lovely wife , that i know a good divorce lawyer. chuckle chuckle. Thanx for listening and keep 'em plants growin' Lois In a message dated 4/7/2005 12:02:40 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: Hey Folks, If you've gotten your CPN, you might have read about the steamed-in-the-can crickets, caterpillars, snails, etc in the product review that I wrote about things you can buy to feed your plants. Well, last night I discovered a new use for the steamed caterpillars (which I keep in my freezer). I pulled out a couple, hid them in my hand, and nonchalantly walked up to my wife (who was relaxing, reading a book). I made a show of coughing, gagging, and pointing curiously to my chest. Then I coughed into my hand, blowing the two grey, nasty caterpillars onto the pillow next to her. The results were most excellent. Cheers Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Thu Apr 7 23:10:53 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 23, Issue 6 mars-- if your collection is growing and you're going to be needing a constant supply of purified water, i would just take the plunge and buy an reverse-osmosis water filter. i just replaced my old two-stage TFC filter by Kent Marine, with a really slick three-stage Pure-Flo II TFC filter for about the same price: $110. the replacement carbon block filter and micron filters run less than Kent's single carbon block filter. it filters 24 gallons of water a day and hooks up to either a hose or kitchen spigot (it comes with adapters). (note: do not get the CTA type.) shop around for deals. here's the link for one source: http://www.aquariumguys.com/purefloii.html brita filters remove chlorine, lead, cysts and mercury, but it doesn't remove salts. you'll rest a lot easier knowing you have a reliable source of pure water that is without a doubt safe. Gary Kong "marya schultz" wrote: > >ok, so rainwater is good. i'm gathering from your post that a brita might >suffice if rain gets hard to come by. yes, no, maybe? i have at least two >brita pitchers packed up out in may garage. i used to use them when i lived >in an old apartment building back in Allentown, PA. the water from our >pipes there used to leave an orangeish filmy ring in my dog's water bowl, so >i just started using the pitchers for all the drinking water. they also >worked nicely when we were staying with my dave's parents before we bought >our house. they (his parents) had well water with a higher sulfer content. >i seemed to be the only one in the house who really noticed it, i just >couldn't drink the tap-water at all, the smell bothered me that much. the >brita definately helped there too. > >i had given passing thought to using it for cps, but just wasn't sure how >good of a filtration system it would prove to be. anyone else have any >input on this? > >mars >marsintenn@hotmail.com >"Every man and every woman is a star." -- AL. I. 3 > > >>Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 17:09:38 -0400 >>From: writerguy67@aol.com >>Subject: Re: [CP] cp watering (on mars) >>To: Cp@omnisterra.com >>Message-ID: <8C70771BEBFD918-6A8-2B343@mblk-r35.sysops.aol.com> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >>I agree, Marya .... rainwater is best (and least expensive). >> >>For some of my indoor CP (and when I get tired of springing for distilled >>water), I bought an aquarium tap water purifier ... it's designed for >>Chiclids, and is made by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals. It's like a big Brita or >>Pur filter (charcoal and resin beads). The initial purchase (the filter >>thingy with hoses, attachments, etc.) was about $30. The filters (good for >>between 50 to 150 gallons, they say, depending on the water) are about $20. >>Probably ways to get them at a discount online. It can process about 10 >>gallons an hour, and it's powered by the water pressure. >> >>Jay Lechtman >>Northern Virginia, USA >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: john.wilden at hmce.gsi.gov.uk (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) Date: Thu Apr 7 23:23:51 2005 Subject: [CP] Peat tea John, I am a newcomer. Tell me your recipe for peat tea, please. Ed McDowell Bonaire, Ga Ed, Take milk, sugar and lemon.......but no seriously!!! all you need to do is boil up a couple of handfuls of peat in a big pan of rainwater for about 20-30 mins. Let cool. Strain out the peat. What you should be left with is a liquid which is nearly black (which is probably why you shouldn't use your best pans-there may be some staining).Its probably best if its stored in plastic bottles. The accepted wisdom is to water your red flava's with this concoction and this apparently helps to bolster the red colouring by increasing the acidity/tannins in the potting compost. As far as I can remember you water from the top but let the mixture drain through (maybe others can elaborate). Hope this helps John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ################### From: john.wilden at hmce.gsi.gov.uk (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) Date: Thu Apr 7 23:34:16 2005 Subject: [CP] product review in CPN Then I coughed into my hand, blowing the two grey, nasty caterpillars onto the pillow next to her. The results were most excellent. ....I laughed so hard that I nearly coughed up a few caterpillars of my own. Good call. However watch out for the revenge aspect. Revenge may be a dish that is served cold, but you need to be looking most carefully at ANY dish served to you in case it has that extra special ingredient (although I do believe that pound for pound, insects have more protein than lean steak, who knows you may get used to caterpillar curry, sweet n sour grasshopper etc etc.). Regards(still sniggering) John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ################### From: john.wilden at hmce.gsi.gov.uk (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) Date: Thu Apr 7 23:44:43 2005 Subject: [CP] UK CPS magazine and cultivars Dear all (Jan and Barry in particular), I've just received the annual UK CPS colour magazine for 2004. Its very impressive, not just in the content but in how its constructed. There are a few descriptions of cultivars (one of which is U bisquimata, "Bettys Bay"). However am I right in assuming that all cultivars should also be registered with the ICPS in order to be treated as valid and has this already been done with the cultivars named in the UK CPS 2004 magazine ? Regards John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ################### From: sardonus at yahoo.com (Hamish McKellar) Date: Thu Apr 7 23:47:25 2005 Subject: [CP] Peat tea I would also add that peat tea seems to be quite good for many Nepenthes seedlings as well where they're growing in sphagnum or an inorganic medium, provided you flush the medium with pure water 24 hours later.... Hamish --- "Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}" wrote: > > John, > > I am a newcomer. Tell me your recipe for peat tea, > please. > > Ed McDowell > Bonaire, Ga > > > > Ed, > > Take milk, sugar and lemon.......but no seriously!!! > all you need to do is > boil up a couple of handfuls of peat in a big pan of > rainwater for about > 20-30 mins. Let cool. Strain out the peat. > > What you should be left with is a liquid which is > nearly black (which is > probably why you shouldn't use your best pans-there > may be some > staining).Its probably best if its stored in plastic > bottles. > > The accepted wisdom is to water your red flava's > with this concoction and > this apparently helps to bolster the red colouring > by increasing the > acidity/tannins in the potting compost. > As far as I can remember you water from the top but > let the mixture drain > through (maybe others can elaborate). > > Hope this helps > > > John Wilden > Southport > Lancashire. > UK > > > The original of this email was scanned for viruses > by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus > scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in > partnership with MessageLabs. > > On leaving the GSi this email was certified > virus-free > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ################### From: cp at pwilson.demon.co.uk (Phil Wilson) Date: Fri Apr 8 00:09:40 2005 Subject: [CP] UK CPS magazine and cultivars Hi John, > > However am I right in assuming that all cultivars should also be > registered > with the ICPS in order to be treated as valid and has this already been > done > with the cultivars named in the UK CPS 2004 magazine ? > You are correct and as soon as the copies I've been promised arrive I will be sending one to Jan for cultivar registration purposes. Regards, Phil ################### From: jan.schlauer at uni-tuebingen.de (Priv.-Doz. Dr. Jan Schlauer) Date: Fri Apr 8 01:28:45 2005 Subject: [CP] UK CPS magazine and cultivars Dear John, > However am I right in assuming that all cultivars should also be > registered > with the ICPS in order to be treated as valid Validity is a term reserved to the publication of taxonomic names (ICBN). But you are right, in order to prevent confusion, all cultivar names should be registered (after their publication) with the appropriate ICRA (international cultivar registration authority), which is the ICPS in the case of carnivorous plants. Cultivar names established by publication in CPN will be registered automatically but it is of course possible to publish cultivar descriptions elsewhere. In this case a copy of the original publication (together with a standard picture or the permission to reproduce original illustrations) should be submitted to the ICPS. > and has this already been done > with the cultivars named in the UK CPS 2004 magazine ? In the case of _Drosera_ 'Tamlin' this has been done, and I am fairly confident the good co-operation with the CPS (UK) will continue smoothly (cf. also Phil's reply). Kind regards Jan ################### From: 320049503767-0001 at T-Online.de (320049503767-0001@T-Online.de) Date: Fri Apr 8 02:19:20 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: D. meristocaulis germination/D. gram. TYPE site Hi all, my seedlings are doing well so far, I have a couple of them on pure peat kept pretty warm in our living room on a south faced window that will be moved into the greenhouse this weekend. Some more germinated in vitro on a modified MS-medium at temps kept around 22 Celsius. That plantlets are a bit behind in growth but that is quite normal for iv-seedlings in their first stage of growth. Thank you Fernando and Matt for collecting and distributing the seed! By the way the D. graminifolia from the TYPE-site are doing great iv. I have split plants up into 15 individually marked tubes to keep at least 15 different clones iv. Plants are filling the whole tube (about 15cm) and I hope they will multiply soon. One more difference between other forms of D. gram. I grow ("spiralis" ...) is that the leaves are much more hairy than all other plants I have seen so far. Kindest regards Stefan ################### From: hpulley at rogers.com (Harry Pulley) Date: Fri Apr 8 06:43:27 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 23, Issue 6 --- marya schultz wrote: > ok, so rainwater is good. i'm gathering from your > post that a brita might > suffice if rain gets hard to come by. yes, no, > maybe? As a last resort you can Brita your tap water and leave it to stand for a few days for the remaining chlorine to gas out. Not the best but certainly better than most plain, chlorinated tap water. I've used that method in a pinch without noticable negative effects. Harry :-{} Harry C. Pulley, IV mailto:hpulley@rogers.com http://ca.geocities.com/hpulley4@rogers.com Guelph, Ontario, Canada ################### From: christoph_belanger2001 at yahoo.com (Christoph Belanger) Date: Fri Apr 8 07:06:07 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: S. purp variations (was: flava) (Barry Rice) Dave and Barry, I totally agree with you both on this. The variation in the Pine Barrens is unbelievable. I've seen plants with pitchers in excess of 12 inches (yes, these things were beasts). In the early 90s I found a remarkable plant that was all red with pitchers whose edges were lime green. This remarkable plant also had orange flowers. Never did find the elusive all green purp, but the orange flowered one is the closest we ever came... The location where it was found should really be investigated a bit further, since it could yield some other interesting finds... Christoph > Hey Dave, > > I certainly agree with you---the color variations in > S. purpurea are > certainly under-appreciated. I think it is because > the pitcher has been > squeezed into such a short structure. The rugelii > throat splotch is > shortened to a band. But if you take just a second > to appreciate the color > variation in purps, especially (IMHO) S.purpurea > subsp. purpurea, you really > get impressed. > > B > > P.S. There are a number of S. flava cultivars, of > Slack origin. > > > > Nearly all of the color forms seen in _S. flava_ > also seem to > > have a counter part in _S. purpurea_. (Has anyone > else > > noticed this or are they "just purps" and don't > require the > > viewer to expend the energy needed for a second > > glance?) Like-wise, there is a different species > of _S. > > purpurea_, _S. > > rosea_, in Florida and there we find different > color varieties of _S. > > flava_, which cannot be found along the east coast > where > > there are no _S. > > rosea_. There is no known reason for this, but I > have my suspicions. > > Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. > Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor > The International Carnivorous Plant Society > http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: ed.mcdowell at cox.net (ed.mcdowell) Date: Fri Apr 8 12:24:04 2005 Subject: [CP] Peat tea Thanks, John. Sounds good. I have heard of and use manure tea, made from fresh cow manure but had never heard of peat tea. --Ed -----Original Message----- [mailto:john.wilden@hmce.gsi.gov.uk] Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 02:25 To: CP chatgroup (E-mail) John, I am a newcomer. Tell me your recipe for peat tea, please. Ed McDowell Bonaire, Ga Ed, Take milk, sugar and lemon.......but no seriously!!! all you need to do is boil up a couple of handfuls of peat in a big pan of rainwater for about 20-30 mins. Let cool. Strain out the peat. What you should be left with is a liquid which is nearly black (which is probably why you shouldn't use your best pans-there may be some staining).Its probably best if its stored in plastic bottles. The accepted wisdom is to water your red flava's with this concoction and this apparently helps to bolster the red colouring by increasing the acidity/tannins in the potting compost. As far as I can remember you water from the top but let the mixture drain through (maybe others can elaborate). Hope this helps John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Fri Apr 8 13:54:38 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: D. graminifolia TYPE site Another interesting thing about the type graminifolia is that the leaves on young plants seem to widen slightly towards the tip. It actually looks quite different from graminifolia spiralis, which I feel is the easier one to grow. M almMessage: 15 To: "CP-listserv" Message-ID: <1DJpdv-2HrJIn0@fwd18.sul.t-online.de> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset="ISO-8859-1" Hi all, my seedlings are doing well so far, I have a couple of them on pure peat kept pretty warm in our living room on a south faced window that will be moved into the greenhouse this weekend. Some more germinated in vitro on a modified MS-medium at temps kept around 22 Celsius. That plantlets are a bit behind in growth but that is quite normal for iv-seedlings in their first stage of growth. Thank you Fernando and Matt for collecting and distributing the seed! By the way the D. graminifolia from the TYPE-site are doing great iv. I have split plants up into 15 individually marked tubes to keep at least 15 different clones iv. Plants are filling the whole tube (about 15cm) and I hope they will multiply soon. One more difference between other forms of D. gram. I grow ("spiralis" ...) is that the leaves are much more hairy than all other plants I have seen so far. Kindest regards Stefan -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ################### From: MHowlett at hcp4.net (Howlett, Mike) Date: Fri Apr 8 14:16:07 2005 Subject: [CP] Yum! Yeesh...this sounds too much like something out of "Forrest Gump." "...caterpillar stew, 'pillars and 'taters, fried 'pillars, creamed 'pillars..." Mike Howlett Naturalist, Herpetoculturist & Carnivorous Plant Enthusiast Jesse H. Jones Park & Nature Center 20634 Kenswick Drive Humble, TX 77338 281-446-8588 mhowlett@hcp4.net www.hcp4.net/jones And Owner - Houston Herpetological Supply Retail Sales of Reptiles, Supplies, Frodents and (of course) Carnivorous Plants www.houstonherp.com info@houstonherp.com 281-433-3286 -----Original Message----- << However watch out for the revenge aspect. Revenge may be a dish that is served cold, but you need to be looking most carefully at ANY dish served to you in case it has that extra special ingredient (although I do believe that pound for pound, insects have more protein than lean steak, who knows you may get used to caterpillar curry, sweet n sour grasshopper etc etc.). Regards(still sniggering) John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK >> ################### From: jcreef at bellsouth.net (Juan-Carlos) Date: Fri Apr 8 17:14:08 2005 Subject: [CP] Lets get into the technicalities of halide Lighting! C'mon guys lets get some conversations going. I have a couple ballast laying around and would like to hear what you all use etc. Juan-Carlos Munoz Miami, Fl ----- Original Message ----- To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 2:29 AM > Metal halide lighting, I have 1,000's of watts running in my house for my > reef aquariums. and I use an array of diffrent bulbs with diffrent kelvin > temperatures. For those of you that do not know what kelvin is, its > simply a way to measure the color of the light produced by a bulb. > Example a 5,500Kelvin bulb is very yellowish, 6,500K is still yellowish > but a bit whiter, 10,000k is supposed to be a crisper white 20,000k is > whitelight more towards the blue spectrum. in other words the higher the > kelvin the bluer the light. the higher the kelvin means less PAR aswell. > so you compromise one for the other. > > For my reef tanks I use 10,000k 13,000k and 20,000k I am thinking since I > have a couple spare ballasts laying around of putting some over my Cp's. > What bulbs do you guys use and specific kelvin? specific brand? any > observations of growth and color of plants depending on diffrent bulbs? > > might be an interesting topic to cover. > > Juan-Carlos > Miami, Florida > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: JDPDX at aol.com (JDPDX@aol.com) Date: Fri Apr 8 18:05:32 2005 Subject: [CP] Giberellic Acid A question for the long time growers, especially those with a botany or horticulture background. What effect does spraying giberellic acid on various cp have on them? I'm especially interested in its effect on Drosera. Is it beneficial? Can it be harmful? Does it need to be use only under certain conditions? Jeff Dallas Portland, OR Help Outdoor School! Visit Pass On The Memory of Outdoor School ################### From: ddarnows at ius.edu (Darnowski, Douglas William) Date: Fri Apr 8 19:50:44 2005 Subject: [CP] Book, Plants For sale: Signed copies of my book Triggerplants US$18 including postage to US, US$20 to Canada, US$25 elsewhere. Aldrovanda Girraween NT Australia $6 Aldrovanda Southwest Western Australia $12 (very red, most plants flowering/fruiting now) Genlisea repens $15 Genlisea filiformis $13 Please email me at ddarnows@ius.edu if interested. Doug Darnowski ################### From: sardonus at yahoo.com (Hamish McKellar) Date: Sat Apr 9 01:42:51 2005 Subject: [CP] Giberellic Acid I've heard that giberellic acid can be used to increase germination rates of Nepenthes... Hamish --- JDPDX@aol.com wrote: > A question for the long time growers, especially > those with a botany or > horticulture background. > > What effect does spraying giberellic acid on various > cp have on them? I'm > especially interested in its effect on Drosera. Is > it beneficial? Can it be > harmful? Does it need to be use only under certain > conditions? > > Jeff Dallas > Portland, OR > > Help Outdoor School! Visit HREF="http://www.passonthememory.org/">Pass On > The Memory of Outdoor School > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Sat Apr 9 10:41:37 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: D.meristocaulis update Hi Fernando, My D. meristocaulis seedlings seem to be growing well enough. The largest have 9 leaves and the stipules are visible. They look just like the photos of the smallest wild plants showed during your slide show presentation. I have transplanted the largest plants and had no trouble doing so. Most of mine are planted in long fiber sphagnum. I had one germinate more recently on podsol, which is all-natural silica sand soil. I'll let you know when the flowers begin to form:-) Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California >Hello to all who are attempting to germinate D.meristocaulis or have already succeeded in doing so. I've been travelling a lot for work over the past 2 months (and doing a little CPing on the side too, but nothing too exciting) and would like to hear from all of you. Has anybody else had luck germinating seeds? What about those of you who already had germination, how are the plants doing? How many leaves do they have? Have any of them flower yet?? Yeah sure!! Hahaha! ;) Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ################### From: stovehouse at earthlink.net (Michael Hunt) Date: Sat Apr 9 14:22:02 2005 Subject: [CP] halide Lighting Message: 4 To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" Message-ID: <030901c53c99$0b0161f0$6001a8c0@jc> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response C'mon guys lets get some conversations going. I have a couple ballast laying around and would like to hear what you all use etc. Juan-Carlos Munoz Miami, Fl >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What would you like to talk about regarding them? I recommend them highly, but only if you have a good amount of space. I use the HID and not the sodium, while 400 watts is ok for a small area about 4' above the plants the ballast throw out strong heat as do the bulbs themselves. Even with twin 1'000 watt setups I tried for Sarracenia I found them to be of little good for the erect types of Sarracenia because they have to be to close to the bulb to promote the color and leaf form Sarracenia such as Flava or leucophylla need. In fact I found them to be bad for all Sarracenia due to the height away from the plants. Even a S. psitt is no good as the light (1,000 watt) must be 4 to 5' above the plants and that is too far to permit good proper growth on a S. psitt. Using the fluorescent bulb with the highest lumens you can get is great for the smaller Sarracenia on a 16 to 18 hour cycle. Where the HID excel is with Nepenthes, they are awesome for a in house enclosure of poly like a indoor greenhouse. But the heat is to much for anything other than a garage or basement. You wouldn't want a 1,000 watt one in the living room or bedroom. They are hell on a electric bill, and if you use them in a poly shielded enclosure you will closely need to watch the humidity as the bulb will drop the humidity quickly even if you are misting heavy. A small fogger or more easy to price and use would be a ionic humidifier... I have used these setups and all sorts of lighting extensively and over many years. I have some knowledge on this subject. Caught me on a good day I ain't started tipping the bottle yet. Okay I started it with some basic thoughts Mike St. Petersburg Florida ################### From: erccmacfitheal at yahoo.com (Nathan Miller) Date: Sun Apr 10 00:07:58 2005 Subject: [CP] lava rock --- CTSsangha@aol.com wrote: > I am gathering potting materials preparing to do the spring repotting > thing. > > Question. Is lava rock used for landscaping at a huge bag for 2.99 > the same as lava rock used for horticulture for a very small bag for > 2.99 the same thing? Safe to use? OK, thats 2 questions. Input > appreciated. Thanks! > > Angie, trying to reestablish a collection, Hall Lovely Mt. Pleasant, > SC They're not necessarily the same thing. Here in Oregon, we specify the type of lava rock, as not all pyroclastic material is the same. The white-ish stuff sold for horticultural purposes is a type of pumace. The red lava rock used in landscaping, usually crushed to about 3/4" or so, is also called scoria. Basalt is also a lava rock and is usually used as blocks for building walls and such. Your CP probably won't care much, although you should be aware that crushed rock of any sort can make minerals available for dissolution in water. Lava rocks are generally high in various minerals. What does the lava rock in question look like and what is its source? Nathan Miller Newberg, OR __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Sun Apr 10 03:04:03 2005 Subject: [CP] Let's get into the technicalities of halide lighting Juan-Carlos has mentioned this subject a few times, to try and get a thread going. Let's get into the technicalities of being persisitant ! I have mentioned this a couple of times in the past. I have a four foot long aquarium, which I use for lowland Nepenthes. I use two fluorescent tubes, which are about three feet long, and about three quarters of an inch thick. I don't know what the output in kelvin is, but they are about 30 watts each. They are of the phosphor-bronze construction. Tubes of that type don't fade as they age, they go all of a sudden. People probably know the ones that I mean. Triton tubes are similar, although I am currently not using Tritons. I am using tubes are for encouraging plant growth in an aquarium sitution. They may be called Flora-Glo or Flora-Sun. Actually, I say that there two tubes in the tank, but one ballast unit has packed up a while ago, and I have been running on one tube for a while. My Neps seem to like it better, they don't dry out so rapidly, and the leaves are greener. For heating, I have about an inch and a quarter of water in the bottom of the tank, with an aquarium heater in it. The heater is supported on two plastic milk bottle tops, with 'vees' cut in them, to stop it touching the glass of the tank. The lid on the tank, which houses the tubes, is made of black plastic-coated chipboard. The ballast units are screwed into the back, so that they don't sit it in the tank itself. I suppose, the lights are about eight inches above the top of the plants. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: villosa at insightbb.com (PATRICK O'BRIEN) Date: Sun Apr 10 05:43:28 2005 Subject: [CP] Lets get into the technicalities of halide Lighting! ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Sun Apr 10 12:25:05 2005 Subject: [CP] Need Native U. carnuta,juncea,and resupinata Looking these US native terr bladderworts Utricularia carnuta Utricularia juncea Utricularia resupinata Wolf ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Sun Apr 10 13:33:31 2005 Subject: [CP] Two countries separated by a common language. To quote Winston Churchill, the US and the UK, are "Two countries separated by a common language". It has been pointed out to me today that Phil Sheridan has rather innocently named one of his plants as "Sarracenia 'purple helmet'. To the average bloke in the UK, this means something rather different to what Phil had intended, when someone told me, we both fell about laughing. We have companies in the UK, which specialise in finding names for company's products. A few years ago, Rolls Royce wanted to name a car 'Silver Mist'. Mist, apparently, is German for manure, so they had to drop it. Perhaps Phil Sheridan could use one of those naming companies. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: stovehouse at earthlink.net (Michael Hunt) Date: Sun Apr 10 17:09:37 2005 Subject: [CP] Lets get into the technicalities of halide Lighting To: Message-ID: <000b01c53dcb$36a3ff60$9700a8c0@insightbb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Two or three years ago, I converted my whole fluorescent lighting system over to an HID halide system. I only grow Nepenthes. My lighting system is inside the walk-in structure, right in with the plants. Here is what I found: The plants were found to have accelerated growth, with colors only slightly better. The colors, I believe, were not actually better; rather, they were perceived to be better because the halide lighting looks like real sunlight on the plants. I wound up reverting back to fluorescent lighting because of the reduction of humidity. If my setup could have been such that the lighting was outside the walk-in structure, shining through glass so as not to affect the humidity, then I believe that I would have kept the system. I believe the reduced humidty (due to the heat of the system) was the cause for decreased pitcher production. The plants had indeed grown faster, but pitcher production decreased. Cost of running halide lighting should also be factored in one's budget. It won't be too bad if you don't need a big unit(s) to cover your growing area. I recommend finding a way to have the lighting outside of whatever structure you are growing in, which I couldn't do because of a low ceiling. >>>>>>>> Patrick I fully agree about the humidity as I mentioned earlier, however regarding Nepenthes it depends on how you provide humidity, where your ballast is placed, location in the home where the entire setup is, & most important the wattage of the system and for carnivorous plants the type of bulb. As we are not promoting flowering rather we want foliage growth the Sodium bulbs are not for cp. The sodium are better for flower production, however they will work fine for cp. At the cost of these bulbs ($100.00 to much higher) I stick with the metal halide bulbs. A 400 watt or 1000 watt are the best choices and standard for plants. Lowland Nepenthes grow fine under fluorescent tubes but the tubes must be close and I disagree with anything under 40 watts. I see no use of buying special bulbs for plants or aquariums to get the UV. After many years of working with different tubes I strongly believe as many others that the most important thing is the amount of lumens nothing else. A cool white works fine placed very close to the plants at a minimum of 4'. As mentioned the fluorescent bulbs have a short life and the best light is near the center. Standard tubes must be replaced at 9 to 10 months based on a 16 to 18 hr day. Someone take it from here................ Mike St. Petersburg Fl ################### From: hpulley at rogers.com (Harry Pulley) Date: Sun Apr 10 17:21:25 2005 Subject: [CP] Two countries separated by a common language. > To quote Winston Churchill, the US and the UK, are "Two countries separated > by a common language". > It has been pointed out to me today that Phil Sheridan has rather innocently > named one of his plants as "Sarracenia 'purple helmet'. > To the average bloke in the UK, this means something rather different to > what Phil had intended, when someone told me, we both fell about laughing. Well, if the pitchers are quite phallic then perhaps the cultivator name is apropos ;) Harry -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.5 - Release Date: 4/7/05 ################### From: jcreef at bellsouth.net (Juan-Carlos) Date: Sun Apr 10 19:14:28 2005 Subject: [CP] Lets get into the technicalities of halide Lighting The humidity factor is defiantly an issue... but I was under the impression that halides put out much more PAR than Flouros. The only other option I would consider recommending to all of the fluorescent users is to go with VHO(very high output bulbs) technically you get 110W of light out of the same 4 foot bulb, that requires a different ballast though (a VHO ballast you can find em online for about $40 for 2 4' bulbs 110w each) also VHO bulbs are needed, ALTHOUGH you can very well use regular cheap fluorescent 40Watt bulbs over driven by the VHO ballast; you'll get the par but the bulbs will last less since they are being over driven. I'm going to experiment with some of the halides I have here, and see what happens. Personally the only lighting I don't like is Power compacts, they loose intensity toooo fast, they were really big in the reefing hobby a while back but people figured out that they weren't all that they where made out to be. How many of you use VHO fluorescents over Normal outputs? -Jc ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 8:10 PM > Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 07:45:41 -0500 > From: "PATRICK O'BRIEN" > Subject: Re: [CP] Lets get into the technicalities of halide Lighting! > To: > Message-ID: <000b01c53dcb$36a3ff60$9700a8c0@insightbb.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Two or three years ago, I converted my whole fluorescent lighting system > over to an HID halide system. I only grow Nepenthes. My lighting system is > inside the walk-in structure, right in with the plants. Here is what I > found: The plants were found to have accelerated growth, with colors only > slightly better. The colors, I believe, were not actually better; rather, > they were perceived to be better because the halide lighting looks like > real sunlight on the plants. I wound up reverting back to fluorescent > lighting because of the reduction of humidity. If my setup could have been > such that the lighting was outside the walk-in structure, shining through > glass so as not to affect the humidity, then I believe that I would have > kept the system. I believe the reduced humidty (due to the heat of the > system) was the cause for decreased pitcher production. The plants had > indeed grown faster, but pitcher production decreased. Cost of running > halide lighting should also be factored in one's budget. It won't be too > bad if you don't need a big unit(s) to cover your growing area. I > recommend finding a way to have the lighting outside of whatever structure > you are growing in, which I couldn't do because of a low ceiling. > >>>>>>>>> > > Patrick I fully agree about the humidity as I mentioned earlier, however > regarding Nepenthes it depends on how you provide humidity, where your > ballast is placed, location in the home where the entire setup is, & most > important the wattage of the system and for carnivorous plants the type of > bulb. As we are not promoting flowering rather we want foliage growth the > Sodium bulbs are not for cp. The sodium are better for flower production, > however they will work fine for cp. At the cost of these bulbs ($100.00 to > much higher) I stick with the metal halide bulbs. A 400 watt or 1000 watt > are the best choices and standard for plants. > > Lowland Nepenthes grow fine under fluorescent tubes but the tubes must be > close and I disagree with anything under 40 watts. I see no use of buying > special bulbs for plants or aquariums to get the UV. After many years of > working with different tubes I strongly believe as many others that the > most important thing is the amount of lumens nothing else. A cool white > works fine placed very close to the plants at a minimum of 4'. As > mentioned the fluorescent bulbs have a short life and the best light is > near the center. Standard tubes must be replaced at 9 to 10 months based > on a 16 to 18 hr day. > > Someone take it from here................ > > Mike > St. Petersburg Fl > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Sun Apr 10 19:50:58 2005 Subject: [CP] D.meristocaulis germinating & TYPE D.graminifolia Hello Stefan & Ivan! Stefan, funny how your ex vitro germinated before the in vitro seeds! And congrats on your efforts to keep TYPE D.graminifolia alive, since it might be extinct in nature by now. There are numerous differences between this D.graminifolia and what was initiall described as D.spiralis by Siant Hilaire. The most obvious is the way the leaves unfurl. The backsides of the leaves are truly hairier in type graminifolia. Plus the spiralis form does seem to be more tolerant in cultivation as Matt mentioned... Ivan, have you been feeding your seedlings? How many leaves do they have by now? Take Care, Fernando Rivadavia ################### From: CTSsangha at aol.com (CTSsangha@aol.com) Date: Sun Apr 10 20:24:32 2005 Subject: [CP] lava rock In a message dated 4/10/05 3:08:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, erccmacfitheal@yahoo.com writes: What does the lava rock in question look like and what is its source? Its red and I don't know its source. Well, its from Lowe's, I know that much. I just, a couple of minutes ago, potted up the Darlingtonia in a mixture of the lava rock and a bunch of other stuff (peat, perlite, fir bark, etc., etc.) Think they will be OK? I used it for the cooling properties as mentioned in Peter's book. I got out Slack's book and Peter's book, wrote down all their recipes for potting mediums for the different genera, took a bit from each, and added some ingredients of my own. I was thinking to use the lava rock for the Helis but Ive always had great success with just peat and sand. Maybe I will stick with that recipe, add some perlite maybe. One of the authors suggested lava rock. Since I cant grow Darlingtonia anyway it doesnt matter much if its the wrong kind ;) ################### From: jcreef at bellsouth.net (Juan-Carlos) Date: Sun Apr 10 21:46:16 2005 Subject: [CP] Two countries separated by a common language. heh, too funny! -Jc ----- Original Message ----- To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 8:21 PM > From: "David Ahrens" >> To quote Winston Churchill, the US and the UK, are "Two countries > separated >> by a common language". >> It has been pointed out to me today that Phil Sheridan has rather > innocently >> named one of his plants as "Sarracenia 'purple helmet'. >> To the average bloke in the UK, this means something rather different to >> what Phil had intended, when someone told me, we both fell about >> laughing. > > Well, if the pitchers are quite phallic then perhaps the cultivator name > is > apropos ;) > > Harry > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.5 - Release Date: 4/7/05 > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: john.wilden at hmce.gsi.gov.uk (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) Date: Sun Apr 10 23:35:16 2005 Subject: [CP] Halide lighting-Why? C'mon guys lets get some conversations going. I have a couple ballast laying around and would like to hear what you all use etc. Juan-Carlos Munoz Miami, Fl Juan, I must admit I don't really have much to add, but what is intriguing me is why (given your locality) you need to use any form of artificial lighting in the first place. Regards John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ################### From: jcreef at bellsouth.net (Juan-Carlos) Date: Mon Apr 11 00:09:29 2005 Subject: [CP] Halide lighting-Why? Hey John, Simply, some Nepenthes do well for me outside, but most need more humidity , and it does get pretty dry and hot here. I do keep plenty of Cp's outside though :) But have really beat up some by trying to move them outside. Juan-Carlos Miami, Florida ----- Original Message ----- To: "CP chatgroup (E-mail)" Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 2:36 AM > > C'mon guys lets get some conversations going. I have a couple ballast > laying around and would like to hear what you all use etc. > > Juan-Carlos Munoz > Miami, Fl > > > > Juan, > I must admit I don't really have much to add, but what is intriguing me is > why (given your locality) you need to use any form of artificial lighting > in > the first place. > > Regards > > John Wilden > Southport > Lancashire. > UK > > > The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government > Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by > Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. > > On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: cplistserv at carnivorousplant.com (Joseph Clemens) Date: Mon Apr 11 11:41:03 2005 Subject: [CP] Halide lighting-Why? Juan-Carlos, Are you really in Miami, Florida? Records I researched indicate that all year long your morning humidity is 80% plus, R.H. and by the hottest part of the afternoon it never goes below 60% R.H. How can that be too dry for Nepenthes? Good growing, Joseph Clemens Tucson, Arizona 21% R.H. -> right now -----Original Message----- Of Juan-Carlos Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:09 AM To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Hey John, Simply, some Nepenthes do well for me outside, but most need more humidity , and it does get pretty dry and hot here. I do keep plenty of Cp's outside though :) But have really beat up some by trying to move them outside. Juan-Carlos Miami, Florida ----- Original Message ----- To: "CP chatgroup (E-mail)" Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 2:36 AM > > C'mon guys lets get some conversations going. I have a couple ballast > laying around and would like to hear what you all use etc. > > Juan-Carlos Munoz > Miami, Fl > > > > Juan, > I must admit I don't really have much to add, but what is intriguing me is > why (given your locality) you need to use any form of artificial lighting > in > the first place. > > Regards > > John Wilden > Southport > Lancashire. > UK > > > The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government > Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by > Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. > > On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Mon Apr 11 11:57:31 2005 Subject: [CP] Halide lighting-Why? i work in miami by the airport, a resounding no on that one. feels like southern california outside right now. It gets more humid further north im told. Chris Hind Homestead, FL --- Joseph Clemens wrote: > Juan-Carlos, > Are you really in Miami, Florida? Records I > researched indicate that all > year long your morning humidity is 80% plus, R.H. > and by the hottest part of > the afternoon it never goes below 60% R.H. How can > that be too dry for > Nepenthes? > > Good growing, > Joseph Clemens > Tucson, Arizona > 21% R.H. -> right now > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com > [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On Behalf > Of Juan-Carlos > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:09 AM > To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > Subject: Re: [CP] Halide lighting-Why? > > Hey John, > > Simply, some Nepenthes do well for me outside, but > most need more humidity > , and it does get pretty dry and hot here. I do > keep plenty of Cp's outside > > though :) But have really beat up some by trying to > move them outside. > > Juan-Carlos > Miami, Florida > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS > North}" > > To: "CP chatgroup (E-mail)" > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 2:36 AM > Subject: [CP] Halide lighting-Why? > > > > > > C'mon guys lets get some conversations going. I > have a couple ballast > > laying around and would like to hear what you all > use etc. > > > > Juan-Carlos Munoz > > Miami, Fl > > > > > > > > Juan, > > I must admit I don't really have much to add, but > what is intriguing me is > > why (given your locality) you need to use any form > of artificial lighting > > in > > the first place. > > > > Regards > > > > John Wilden > > Southport > > Lancashire. > > UK > > > > > > The original of this email was scanned for viruses > by the Government > > Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service > supplied exclusively by > > Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. > > > > On leaving the GSi this email was certified > virus-free > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cp mailing list > > Cp@omnisterra.com > > > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: jmlavrich at comcast.net (jmlavrich@comcast.net) Date: Mon Apr 11 12:13:10 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Purple Helmet David, Very funny about the 'purple helmet'. I just was going to purchase one, and didn't realize I already had one. Joe Lavrich Audubon, PA USA ################### From: cplistserv at carnivorousplant.com (Joseph Clemens) Date: Mon Apr 11 12:15:55 2005 Subject: [CP] Halide lighting-Why? Christopher, What are your local R.H. levels? Here is where I got my information: http://ggweather.com/ccd/avgrh.htm -----Original Message----- Of Christopher Hind Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 11:57 AM To: Cp@omnisterra.com i work in miami by the airport, a resounding no on that one. feels like southern california outside right now. It gets more humid further north im told. Chris Hind Homestead, FL --- Joseph Clemens wrote: > Juan-Carlos, > Are you really in Miami, Florida? Records I > researched indicate that all > year long your morning humidity is 80% plus, R.H. > and by the hottest part of > the afternoon it never goes below 60% R.H. How can > that be too dry for > Nepenthes? > > Good growing, > Joseph Clemens > Tucson, Arizona > 21% R.H. -> right now > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com > [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On Behalf > Of Juan-Carlos > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:09 AM > To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > Subject: Re: [CP] Halide lighting-Why? > > Hey John, > > Simply, some Nepenthes do well for me outside, but > most need more humidity > , and it does get pretty dry and hot here. I do > keep plenty of Cp's outside > > though :) But have really beat up some by trying to > move them outside. > > Juan-Carlos > Miami, Florida > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS > North}" > > To: "CP chatgroup (E-mail)" > Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 2:36 AM > Subject: [CP] Halide lighting-Why? > > > > > > C'mon guys lets get some conversations going. I > have a couple ballast > > laying around and would like to hear what you all > use etc. > > > > Juan-Carlos Munoz > > Miami, Fl > > > > > > > > Juan, > > I must admit I don't really have much to add, but > what is intriguing me is > > why (given your locality) you need to use any form > of artificial lighting > > in > > the first place. > > > > Regards > > > > John Wilden > > Southport > > Lancashire. > > UK > > > > > > The original of this email was scanned for viruses > by the Government > > Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service > supplied exclusively by > > Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. > > > > On leaving the GSi this email was certified > virus-free > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cp mailing list > > Cp@omnisterra.com > > > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Mon Apr 11 12:25:08 2005 Subject: [CP] Halide lighting-Why? Present Humidity: 62% it gets drier though. i have to constantly water my plants. its the dry season in florida right now. apparently the wet season starts in may, i look forward to it. Chris Hind Homestead, FL --- Joseph Clemens wrote: > Christopher, > What are your local R.H. levels? > > Here is where I got my information: > http://ggweather.com/ccd/avgrh.htm ################### From: jstein at lotharville.com (jstein@lotharville.com) Date: Mon Apr 11 13:17:31 2005 Subject: [CP] Halide lighting. Hello everyone! I used to be a more active member of this list (well, actually in a ?previous lifetime?, about 5 years ago). Now that I've settled a bit, I've had the opportunity to get back into CPs. Anyway, as an avid reptile keeper (chameleons), I studied lighting sources a bit. My conclusion, HID (high intensity discharge) lighting is the way to go ? at least for me. Why? Pros 1. Much higher light output per watt than regular fluorescents (equals less heat per light ?unit?) 2. Bulbs last a long time with relatively low output reduction 3. Good light spectrum potential Cons: 1. More expensive systems up front 2. UV light production (bleaches things ? but it was great for reptiles) 3. Bulbs can be hard to find (at least locally) Maybe pro/maybe con: 1. Point source lighting. Great if you can arrange your high light plants right under the light, bad if you cannot. Some will argue that HID systems produce more heat. This is not so when you compare light output per watt. One could easily illuminate a 5?x5? indoor growing area (or larger with lower light plants) with a single 400W HID system and appropriate fixture/reflector. For CP growers, this means four 40/50/60gal aquaria (4? long) or a decent size home-built setup. Most of the plants would be extremely happy and grow very well. Doing the same with standard output 4? fluorescents (aka shop lights), would be ugly and less effective. Generally, HPS (high pressure sodium) systems produce more light output per watt than metal halide, but the color spectrum is yellow. The plants will grow fine, but the color will look off to us. Mercury vapor lights are almost useless for growing plants due to the spectra. As an example, I have a 10gal aquarium at work with a 70W metal halide fixture (security light purchased on ebay and modified). The plants are very happy and definitely not too hot. Jeff ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Mon Apr 11 13:24:05 2005 Subject: [CP] Halide lighting. > Generally, HPS (high pressure sodium) systems > produce more light output > per watt than metal halide, but the color spectrum > is yellow. The > plants will grow fine, but the color will look off > to us. Mercury > vapor lights are almost useless for growing plants > due to the spectra. you could always have it run high pressure sodium during the day while youre at work, shut off before you get hope and flip into 40watt flourescents for pretty viewing while youre at home. im sure the plant would enjoy it just like it were evening or a moonlit night. ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Mon Apr 11 15:26:53 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Fernando's seed & Sarr cultivar Well I guess the D. meri. seed needs cold stratification. Mine has not germinated but after searching through everyone's posts it seems most people had kept their's cold (50s) . Mine have been kept in the 70s and 80s and no germination nor on my D. roramani (sp?) What eactly does 'Purple Helmet' mean? In the UK I mean. Tre Bond ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Mon Apr 11 16:06:16 2005 Subject: [CP] Halide lighting-Why? http://www.aquaticlight.com/retrofit.html#Aquatic This is the stuff i used on my reef tank. pretty cheap. Chris Hind Homestead, FL ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Mon Apr 11 16:16:28 2005 Subject: [CP] Two countries separated by a common language. not necessarily. i smashed my palm to my forehead when i read that name. but then i used to work with someone named richard hung. perhaps i've been conditioned. Gary Kong "David Ahrens" wrote: >To quote Winston Churchill, the US and the UK, are "Two countries separated >by a common language". >It has been pointed out to me today that Phil Sheridan has rather innocently >named one of his plants as "Sarracenia 'purple helmet'. >To the average bloke in the UK, this means something rather different to >what Phil had intended, when someone told me, we both fell about laughing. >We have companies in the UK, which specialise in finding names for company's >products. >A few years ago, Rolls Royce wanted to name a car 'Silver Mist'. Mist, >apparently, is German for manure, so they had to drop it. >Perhaps Phil Sheridan could use one of those naming companies. >Regards >David Ahrens >London. > > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Mon Apr 11 17:54:15 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Fernando's seed & Sarr cultivar Tre, as the great man once said, if you gotta ask the question, you're never going to know the answer...... In a message dated 4/11/2005 3:27:22 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, treaqum1@yahoo.com writes: What eactly does 'Purple Helmet' mean? In the UK I mean. Tre Bond TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Mon Apr 11 17:58:00 2005 Subject: [CP] Halide lighting-Why? That must be like record high relative humidity for Tucson! In a message dated 4/11/2005 11:41:28 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, cplistserv@carnivorousplant.com writes: Good growing, Joseph Clemens Tucson, Arizona 21% R.H. -> right now TTFN Hamir the Hermit "We're busy doing nothing, working all day through, We're trying to find lots of things not to do. We're busy going nowhere, isn't it such a crime? We'd like to be unhappy, but we never do have the time." ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Mon Apr 11 18:04:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Two countries separated by a common language. Seems ignorant to me and other US members to make fun of way we speak and use same words with different meanings. So what what one word means in one country while it has a different meaning in another? And here "mist" is commonly known as light spray or humidity. Sure know Phil knew what he was doing with the naming of the species. Here in the US,one word has many meanings. UK no different,your country speaks differently in certain parts of Londen,same as here. East coast and west coast,north and south,city and county,they all take and use words differently. Wolf ################### From: mabcp at alamedanet.net (Margaret Boomer) Date: Mon Apr 11 20:13:52 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Darlingtonia Angie, I find that darlingtonia do best in straight new zealand sphagnum. They like to have cool roots. Margaret ################### From: CTSsangha at aol.com (CTSsangha@aol.com) Date: Mon Apr 11 20:20:26 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Darlingtonia In a message dated 4/11/05 11:14:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mabcp@alamedanet.net writes: darlingtonia do best in straight new zealand sphagnum. They like to have cool roots. Margaret Thanks for the info Margaret. I took the one I had in sphagnum, not new zealand, and put it in a pot with a smaller one last night. A mix of peat, sand, lava rock, fir bark, sphagnum, and perlite. I'll let you know how long it lives. They tend to die here in the summer. I swear every year I will not get another one but then I go to Lowe's and there they are... ################### From: dinesh at ndbib.lanka.net (Dinesh Fernando) Date: Mon Apr 11 21:22:07 2005 Subject: [CP] Germinating nepenthes seeds Could someone recommend a site where I can see germinating nepenthes seedlings. I sowed some seeds of N. distillatoria a few weeks back and can see some signs of germination - only there are no miniature pitchers to be seen. I'm not sure if that is normal in nepenthes, or if I'm growing weeds. Thanks. Dinesh. ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Mon Apr 11 21:31:32 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Fernando's seed & Sarr cultivar Actually, as far as I have noticed, those who kept the seeds warm got germination first.... Take care, Fernando Rivadavia ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 7:26 PM > Well I guess the D. meri. seed needs cold stratification. Mine has not germinated but after searching through everyone's posts it seems most people had kept their's cold (50s) . Mine have been kept in the 70s and 80s and no germination nor on my D. roramani (sp?) > > What eactly does 'Purple Helmet' mean? In the UK I mean. > Tre Bond > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: sardonus at yahoo.com (Hamish McKellar) Date: Mon Apr 11 21:42:14 2005 Subject: [CP] Germinating nepenthes seeds Dinesh, Nepenthes seedlings first germinate with cotyledons, which are the same leaves that you see on plants such as tomatoes. Bob Ziemer's excellent site would be the best collection of links for seedlings and other pics: http://www.humboldt.edu/~rrz7001/Nepenthes.html Hamish --- Dinesh Fernando wrote: > Could someone recommend a site where I can see > germinating nepenthes > seedlings. I sowed some seeds of N. distillatoria a > few weeks back and can > see some signs of germination - only there are no > miniature pitchers to be > seen. I'm not sure if that is normal in nepenthes, > or if I'm growing weeds. > > Thanks. > > Dinesh. > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ################### From: jcreef at bellsouth.net (Juan-Carlos) Date: Mon Apr 11 23:37:36 2005 Subject: [CP] Germinating nepenthes seeds Here are some pics I posted on terraforums a while back... http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin/ib312/ikonboard.cgi?s=2bec5e08c9c4b8f940d970dba41545c8;act=ST;f=7;t=14625;st=0 They are now looking pretty nice, I might snap some new pics as an update :) -Jc ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 12:25 AM > Could someone recommend a site where I can see germinating nepenthes > seedlings. I sowed some seeds of N. distillatoria a few weeks back and > can > see some signs of germination - only there are no miniature pitchers to be > seen. I'm not sure if that is normal in nepenthes, or if I'm growing > weeds. > > Thanks. > > Dinesh. > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Tue Apr 12 05:12:16 2005 Subject: [CP] pygmy drosera - how well does gemmae ship? i was wondering how much luck people have had growing pygmy drosera in indoor tank-style or windowsill conditions. i live in south florida and id be growing them inside a house with air conditioning. i dont want too much humidity cuz they hate that but i dont want too little either. currently i have a d. scorpioides living outside quite nicely but i know that will change once the humidity skyrockets in the summer. also im interested in collecting pygmy drosera so i was wondering how well do the gemmae ship? thanks! Chris Hind Homestead, FL ################### From: Sundew1802 at aol.com (Sundew1802@aol.com) Date: Tue Apr 12 05:18:36 2005 Subject: [CP] Halide lighting-Why? In a message dated 4/11/05 3:25:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cixcell@yahoo.com writes: Present Humidity: 62% it gets drier though. i have to constantly water my plants. its the dry season in florida right now. apparently the wet season starts in may, i look forward to it. ################### From: villosa at insightbb.com (PATRICK O'BRIEN) Date: Tue Apr 12 06:14:42 2005 Subject: [CP] Lets get into the technicalities of halide Lighting! "Patrick I fully agree about the humidity as I mentioned earlier, however regarding Nepenthes it depends on how you provide humidity, where your ballast is placed, location in the home where the entire setup is, & most important the wattage of the system and for carnivorous plants the type of bulb. As we are not promoting flowering rather we want foliage growth the Sodium bulbs are not for cp. The sodium are better for flower production, however they will work fine for cp. At the cost of these bulbs ($100.00 to much higher) I stick with the metal halide bulbs. A 400 watt or 1000 watt are the best choices and standard for plants"....... ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Tue Apr 12 14:13:30 2005 Subject: [CP] Lets get into the technicalities of fluorescent Lighting! Dear Patrick, Yeah, those bulbs from Sylvania are fantastic! Too bad they only sell them in just a couple of stores. A lot more people would use them if only they knew about them from better exposure at more vendors! My CP shelving/lighting system uses the same type of fluorescent you have along with similar distance from the bulbs to the plants. I have found that seedlings and juveniles of *all* genera of CP can do very well with fluorescent lighting. Many _Nepenthes_ are too large for this type of set up when they reach their vining stage. However, they can be kept for years and years before they become that big. Most can be pruned back into rosettes which produce large and colorful pitchers in fluorescent lighting. I found this to be the best set-up yet for cultivating _Pinguicula_ and __Drosera_. The light is bright enough for even the most light-hungry _Drosera_ under the middle of the tubes, near the ends the light is dimmer and other plants like _D. adelae_ and many _Utricularia_ grow better in these shadier spots. The ten to twenty inches height variation from soil surface to the lights allows the plants; sundews, butterworts and bladderworts; to produce full sized, healthy flower stems with enough elbow-room to reach in and do cross pollination, or to slide the tray out some to reach flowers near the back. The lack of excess heat production is a big plus for me, since many CP's are not heat tolerant. Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of PATRICK O'BRIEN Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 9:17 AM To: Cp@omnisterra.com While fluorescent fixtures may present a hassle to some or not meet their expectations, I find that they work perfect, and I get some traps (depending on the plant) over a foot tall, with rich colors. I found the best possible 40 watt tube available, and it is a T12 4100-degree Kelvin "Cool White Plus" bulb manufactured by Sylvania, and sold here in stores such as Menards and Lowes. In fact, these bulbs produce such amazing results (I have tried nearly everything), that I emailed Sylvania once, complimenting them on this particular bulb. I got a response stating that they are manufactured exclusively for sale at Menards and Lowes. I told them in my letter that they provide outstanding results for growing plants, and that I hope they don't stop manufacturing them. Their response was that as long as Menards and Lowes don't go out of business, their production shall likely continue. I buy them in cases of ten for less than $20.00. I also use the newest type of fluorescent fixture which utilizes solid-state circuitry, and truly does provide, as claimed, more light while using less energy. As of right now, I have 14 fixtures with 28 tubes burning only 14 hours a day, at an average distance of 2 feet from the canopy. My plants are richly colored and readily go through the vining stage. I feel that it is a matter of personal taste, what one is willing to put up with regarding the system that one is comfortable with. I raise and lower only the fixture directly in front of me for watering. The fixtures are in pairs, hung in rows. Maybe others would find this troublesome, but not me. ################### From: jcreef at bellsouth.net (Juan-Carlos) Date: Tue Apr 12 15:24:17 2005 Subject: [CP] Lets get into the technicalities of fluorescent Lighting! Hey guys, Very interesting... Dave do you use 40 watt bulbs or VHO 110 watt 4' bulbs? I will soon be re-doing my plant room, and will be using Fluorescents, Power compacts, and Metal halides... It will be interesting to see the differences. Juan-Carlos Miami, Florida ----- Original Message ----- To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 5:13 PM Dear Patrick, Yeah, those bulbs from Sylvania are fantastic! Too bad they only sell them in just a couple of stores. A lot more people would use them if only they knew about them from better exposure at more vendors! My CP shelving/lighting system uses the same type of fluorescent you have along with similar distance from the bulbs to the plants. I have found that seedlings and juveniles of *all* genera of CP can do very well with fluorescent lighting. Many _Nepenthes_ are too large for this type of set up when they reach their vining stage. However, they can be kept for years and years before they become that big. Most can be pruned back into rosettes which produce large and colorful pitchers in fluorescent lighting. I found this to be the best set-up yet for cultivating _Pinguicula_ and __Drosera_. The light is bright enough for even the most light-hungry _Drosera_ under the middle of the tubes, near the ends the light is dimmer and other plants like _D. adelae_ and many _Utricularia_ grow better in these shadier spots. The ten to twenty inches height variation from soil surface to the lights allows the plants; sundews, butterworts and bladderworts; to produce full sized, healthy flower stems with enough elbow-room to reach in and do cross pollination, or to slide the tray out some to reach flowers near the back. The lack of excess heat production is a big plus for me, since many CP's are not heat tolerant. Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of PATRICK O'BRIEN Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 9:17 AM To: Cp@omnisterra.com While fluorescent fixtures may present a hassle to some or not meet their expectations, I find that they work perfect, and I get some traps (depending on the plant) over a foot tall, with rich colors. I found the best possible 40 watt tube available, and it is a T12 4100-degree Kelvin "Cool White Plus" bulb manufactured by Sylvania, and sold here in stores such as Menards and Lowes. In fact, these bulbs produce such amazing results (I have tried nearly everything), that I emailed Sylvania once, complimenting them on this particular bulb. I got a response stating that they are manufactured exclusively for sale at Menards and Lowes. I told them in my letter that they provide outstanding results for growing plants, and that I hope they don't stop manufacturing them. Their response was that as long as Menards and Lowes don't go out of business, their production shall likely continue. I buy them in cases of ten for less than $20.00. I also use the newest type of fluorescent fixture which utilizes solid-state circuitry, and truly does provide, as claimed, more light while using less energy. As of right now, I have 14 fixtures with 28 tubes burning only 14 hours a day, at an average distance of 2 feet from the canopy. My plants are richly colored and readily go through the vining stage. I feel that it is a matter of personal taste, what one is willing to put up with regarding the system that one is comfortable with. I raise and lower only the fixture directly in front of me for watering. The fixtures are in pairs, hung in rows. Maybe others would find this troublesome, but not me. _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Tue Apr 12 15:25:35 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Wet season Well Chris, The wet season is also known as Hurricanes. Just kidding. About may it should rain every other day. Tre ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Tue Apr 12 15:29:30 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Sarr name Don't answer my question about the S. 'Purple Helmet' I think I found out enough on google. Tre ################### From: jcreef at bellsouth.net (Juan-Carlos) Date: Tue Apr 12 17:57:15 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Wet season Ha ha! We had plenty of em last year eh Tre?! ;) Hows that triffid order coming along?? Juan-Carlos Miami, Florida ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 6:25 PM > Well Chris, > The wet season is also known as Hurricanes. Just kidding. About may it > should rain every other day. > Tre > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Wed Apr 13 13:52:38 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Triffid Well enough. Mailing our plants in a week and a half. On last count. Tre ################### From: jcreef at bellsouth.net (Juan-Carlos) Date: Wed Apr 13 16:09:41 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Triffid Great! cant wait :) -Jc ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 4:52 PM > Well enough. Mailing our plants in a week and a half. On last count. > Tre > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Make Yahoo! your home page > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Wed Apr 13 17:21:11 2005 Subject: [CP] Revamping collection I am looking for Anthro free Sarrs location purps interesting Sarr hybrids location S. rubra complex hybrids with N. spathulata Drosera hybrids S. purp. montana Anything not on my growlist I have for trade 'S. red leuco' - 4 S. purp. x. rubra -1 D. tokansis-5 N. 'judith Finn'-1 D. capensis 'wide leaf- 7 S. leuco x. flava - 2 S. purpurea x. purpurea -1 S. ' Judith Hindle' -2 U. floridanida (sp?, adquatic) -3 N. 'Holland Hybrid' (from division mature one growth point)-1 N. alata (cuttings)-2 Mexican pings to follow Tre Bond ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Wed Apr 13 22:17:48 2005 Subject: [CP] Sarr name Tre wrote about using Google to find out about a Sarracenia name. Good old Google, what did we do without it ? I noticed that a particular orchid was for sale at the Royal Hoticultural Society headquarters at Wisley. From the name, I thought that it may have come from a particular nursery in Devon, but when I Googled it, I found that it had come from a nursey in Sussex. Mind you, when Tre Googled that particular Sarracenia, he probably found lots of sites that him mum didn't him about. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Thu Apr 14 06:37:32 2005 Subject: [CP] Revamping my collection part 2 Also have: N. sanguenia (sp?)-1 P. moranensis-3 P. tina -5 P. rectifolia-2 P. ehlersia -4 P. oblongiloba x. ehlersiae Tre Bond ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Thu Apr 14 12:29:22 2005 Subject: [CP] Lets get into the technicalities of fluorescent Lighting! Dear Juan-Carlos, I'm using the Cool White Plus, 40 watt tubes from Sylvania. These start out producing 3000 lumens and can last over a year and still produce good light. Most lighing places I have visited have declared, "They made 40 watt tubes illegal." Now it sounded rediculous to me (you know, the government really wouldn't require fluorescent lighting be made less efficient.... Right?), but I couldn't find any store which didn't have 34 watt tubes (2200 lumens) GE and Phillips- last for about 9 months, only! The guys at the stores had the helpful idea of getting more fixtures to produce enough lumens. Finally found the 40 watt Cool White Plus at Lowes. I think you could have very good result growing lowland CP using a 200 watt high pressure sodium along with some Cool White fluorescent lighting. Stuff like petiolaris _Drosera_, lowland _Nepenthes_, probably more, I think, would like this. Dave Evabs -----Original Message----- Of Juan-Carlos Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 6:24 PM To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Hey guys, Very interesting... Dave do you use 40 watt bulbs or VHO 110 watt 4' bulbs? I will soon be re-doing my plant room, and will be using Fluorescents, Power compacts, and Metal halides... It will be interesting to see the differences. Juan-Carlos Miami, Florida ################### From: williaby at onid.orst.edu (williaby@onid.orst.edu) Date: Thu Apr 14 12:31:21 2005 Subject: [CP] Sarr name On the Google web page there is a link for preferences. On that it has choices for SafeSearch Filtering. This can help with some of those sites David alluded to. I learned this after doing some research at work and getting some Google results that my boss wasn?t to happy about. I was supposed to search Japanese culture and my boss was right there. You can imagine trying to explain that to my 60 year old boss who's not real fond of technology. Byron ------------------------------ Message: 4 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Tre wrote about using Google to find out about a Sarracenia name. Good old Google, what did we do without it ? I noticed that a particular orchid was for sale at the Royal Hoticultural Society headquarters at Wisley. From the name, I thought that it may have come from a particular nursery in Devon, but when I Googled it, I found that it had come from a nursey in Sussex. Mind you, when Tre Googled that particular Sarracenia, he probably found lots of sites that him mum didn't him about. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: smaietta at aabga.org (AABGA) Date: Fri Apr 15 12:03:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Thank you for contacting AABGA. If this is in response to the Thank you for contacting AABGA. If this is in response to the Early Bird Deadline for the Annual Meeting, we have initiated a grace period through midnight Sunday, April 17th. Please click on the link below to sign up for the meeting or fax your registration to 302-655-8100 to receive the early bird rate. Please note any registration received after midnight Sunday, April 17th will be charged at the regular rate. http://www.aabga.org/events/Core/Events/Events.aspx Thank you, Sarah Sarah Maietta Office Manager AABGA 100 West 10th Street, Suite 614 Wilmington, DE 19801 302-655-7100, ext. 11 302-655-8100 fax ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Fri Apr 15 12:25:35 2005 Subject: [CP] Safe Search Filtering Byron mentioned that there is a 'Safe Search Filtering' mode on Google. I don't like the sound of that, some of us might actually be looking for some of those dodgy sites. Only joking. Back to CP's. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: marsintenn at hotmail.com (mars schultz) Date: Sat Apr 16 03:03:49 2005 Subject: [CP] my new babies!!! so my new babies have finally arrived! sent to me by a very nice young man from the colorado carnivorous plant society, they are wonderful. so after working a double shift, i went home and promptly potted my little dears (eyeballing the sand ratio was harder than i thought, now have lots of extra pre-mixed potting medium). i put them outside on the eastern side of my house for the afternoon and brought them in right around nightfall, as i didn't want to stress them since they've been through a lot. what i'm hoping you all can help me with is how to work them into being outside. our days have been ranging from 60's to 80's already, but our nights have been dropping into the forties. so as not to shock and further stress the little ones, how should i best go about putting them out/keeping them out for the summer months? oh, a list of the plants: D. capensis, D eriksoniae, D spatulata, D burmanni, D dichotoma "Giant", U lividia, U sandersonii, and a VFT. you'll have to excuse me, i've had very little sleep and am so excited i could burst. they are so pretty and adorable. i really hope i can keep them going. mars marsintenn@hotmail.com "Every man and every woman is a star." -- AL. I. 3 ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Sat Apr 16 09:28:36 2005 Subject: [CP] Snailicide Does anyone have any recommendations for a good snail-i-cide to use to kill aquatic snails but not harm the Utricularia and Aldrovanda that the snails are decimating? I prefer not to have an "in order to save the village, we had to destroy it" scenario. I would imagine if I dropped by a pet store, they would have some sort of a remedy, but has anyone ever tried them, and how did they affect the plants? TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: sziegler at fishcrzy.com (Susan Ziegler) Date: Sat Apr 16 12:49:31 2005 Subject: [CP] Re:snail-i-cide The snail killers at the pet store are crap. Don't work. The best way to get snails out of a water situation is to buy a clown loach. Of course you may not want to deal with having a fish, or finding a home for it when it gets too big or finishes the snails. Second best way (fishless) is to get a piece of lettuce.. and weight it down to the bottom at night. Then in the morning remove and flush the snails and the lettuce, and keep doing this till they are all gone. hth Susan At 09:09 AM 4/16/2005, you wrote: >Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:28:12 EDT >From: HmrTheHrmt@aol.com >Subject: [CP] Snailicide >To: Cp@omnisterra.com >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >Does anyone have any recommendations for a good snail-i-cide to use to kill >aquatic snails but not harm the Utricularia and Aldrovanda that the snails >are > decimating? I prefer not to have an "in order to save the village, we had >to destroy it" scenario. I would imagine if I dropped by a pet store, they >would have some sort of a remedy, but has anyone ever tried them, and how >did >they affect the plants? -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.11 - Release Date: 4/14/2005 ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Sat Apr 16 14:31:39 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: my new babies!!! (mars schultz) You get if from NW Carnivorous Plants Society? If so,excellent choice! Frist,what state do you live in? Also since they may been grown in greenhouse,best to keep indoors until they get use to the room climate for about a week or 2? Or else they may go into shock and die? I had sundews do that,and never do that that again. If they was grown outside,then it may be ok to put outdoors? But they may look wierd because they have to adopt to your climate,and new environment. CPs are funny like that,but then again a lot of plants are like that. Also since you weather changes like here in northeast states,good idea to but them in a clear container with led when wind is blowing and dry. That was they will adopt slowely to the weather changes. You just take led off when temps are warm,even if windy. Then at evening when temps get colder,so the dew won't dry out. I do this because the air been dry,and keep sundews from geting rained on. But my pitcher plants and flytraps are use to my climate,so they doing good out in open. And they slowly waking from dormancy,and growing slowly. Wolf ################### From: n.bellii at netzero.net (n.bellii@netzero.net) Date: Sun Apr 17 04:45:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Snailicide For a couple of non chemical methods I would suggest to rid your water of snails, a slice of squash. I've seen it attract snails in large numbers, over a couple of hours, and then you can remove it with a net, and reduce your snail population without poison. "Clown Loaches" (a pretty and somewhat high priced fish) can sometimes be used to eat snails, but it takes them time to eliminate the snail population, and they need the typical tropical setup temperature of water. I don't know what pH extremes this fish can tolerate either. Hope this helps, Steven Stewart Florida, USA >Does anyone have any recommendations for a good snail-i-cide to use to >>kill aquatic snails but not harm the Utricularia and Aldrovanda that >>the snails are decimating? I prefer not to have an "in order to save >>the village, we had to destroy it" scenario. I would imagine if I >>dropped by a pet store, they would have some sort of a remedy, but has >>anyone ever tried them, and how did they affect the plants? ################### From: erccmacfitheal at yahoo.com (Nathan Miller) Date: Sun Apr 17 10:11:57 2005 Subject: [CP] Snailicide --- HmrTheHrmt@aol.com wrote: > Does anyone have any recommendations for a good snail-i-cide to use to > kill aquatic snails but not harm the Utricularia and Aldrovanda that > the snails are > decimating? I prefer not to have an "in order to save the village, > we had > to destroy it" scenario. I would imagine if I dropped by a pet store, > they would have some sort of a remedy, but has anyone ever tried them, > and how did > > > they affect the plants? I haven't tried this with aquatics, but it works very well for terrestrials. I use a 3040% ammonia solution which I keep in a spray bottle. This mixture has a devastating effect on slugs and snails, as its effect is nearly instantaneous (well, within a few seconds anyway). At the same time it has little if any effect on nearby plants, including newly-germinated seedlings. As ammonia is a nitrogen compound, it breaks down in the soil and contributes to soil fertillity, if only in a minor way. You could try pouring a mixture is similar strenght into your water. On the down side, this will increase the nitrogen level in your water to some extent and may encourage algae growth. On the other hand, don't small aquatic animals feed on this and don't aquatic CP then feed on them? Anyway, it's worth a try. Nathan Miller Newberg, OR __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides! http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide ################### From: it_290 at hotmail.com (mike wilder) Date: Sun Apr 17 12:29:27 2005 Subject: [CP] casting call fororegon a mike wilder www.geocities.com/pingenstein ################### From: it_290 at hotmail.com (mike wilder) Date: Sun Apr 17 13:00:25 2005 Subject: [CP] casting call for oregon washington and bay area nepenthes hello, sorry for the accidental post a minute ago. I've been working on a 3d documentary about carnivorous plants for over a year now. It will be completed in fall 2005 and will be available on dvd. if you've seen my 2d "carnivorous syndrome", imagine similar time lapse videos except in 3d, with high quality 3d animation, music, narration, etc. i am seeking nepenthes growers in oregon washington state and/or the bay area who would be willing to let me take 3d photographs of some rare specimens for this film. I am particularly eager to find someone with a medium sized n. hamata-- i really need to photograph a plant with well-developed teeth on the peristome. i'm also very eager to hear from growers of n.n. aristolochioides, edwardsiana, villosa, or lowii. if you have medium to large specimens of these or other interesting species, and would be interested in having your baby in a 3d documentary, please email me offlist at: it_290@hotmail.com i can give participating people multiple copies of the finished dvd, and acknowledgement in the credits if you desire (i know some people have justified privacy concerns because of potential theft.) certainly if you email me with a list of your plants i will treat it as confidential. i would appreciate it if you would list the approximate plant/pitcher size--i'm not so interested in tiny examples which are fairly fresh from the tc lab. thanks very much in advance for your time, and if you have nice specimens please seriously consider contacting me. i really want viewers of this documentary to see the finest and most shocking nepenthes! if you are growing them, please consider this opportunity to let others see the fruits of your dedicated growing. mike wilder www.geocities.com/pingenstein ################### From: JWi5770869 at aol.com (JWi5770869@aol.com) Date: Mon Apr 18 00:15:46 2005 Subject: [CP] Algaecide NO! NO! NO! I haven't tried this with aquatics, but it works very well for terrestrials.I use a 3040% ammonia solution which I keep in a spray bottle.This mixture has a devastating effect on slugs and snails, as its effect is nearly instantaneous (well, within a few seconds anyway). At the same time it has little if any effect on nearby plants, including newly-germinated seedlings. As ammonia is a nitrogen compound, it breaks down in the soil and contributes to soil fertillity, if only in a minor way. You could try pouring a mixture is similar strenght into your water. On the down side, this will increase the nitrogen level in your water to some extent and may encourage algae growth. On the other hand, don't small aquatic animals feed on this and don't aquatic CP then feed on them? Anyway, it's worth a try. Nathan Miller Newberg, OR ARRGHHHH!!!! NO! NO! NO! NO! (sounds of yrs truly choking on tea and toast!!) "...and may encourage algae growth." It WILL encourage algae growth. Don't forget that a lot of aquatic utrics come from waters that are deficient in the same minerals as terrestrial CP's, so if the algae doesn't smother and kill the plants, then I suspect that the excess ammonia/nitrogen will.There may be other side effects, such as other alteration to the water chemistry (Ph for instance), but I'm no expert on this, so others may wish to comment. Aquaria are self contained systems and its very difficult to not only attain a balance, but to maintain it. Adding something that aquarists spend all of their time trying to remove(excess nitrogen) is just asking for trouble. "...Anyway, it's worth a try." No its not. You've stated that you've not tried it with aquatics, so you've no idea if it will work or not.Whilst your advice is well intentioned it could lead to somebody else paying the price, by losing their plants. Apologies for the flamey nature of this reply, but it is difficult to be diplomatic when all I can see from this thread is a bunch of dead utrics! Regards John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK ################### From: venusvliegenval at gmail.com (Venus Vliegenval) Date: Mon Apr 18 02:00:59 2005 Subject: [CP] Re:snail-i-cide I read that land snails and slugs can be killed with plain coffee. The article was a bit short on details. It was an article about resaerch done in a tropical forest, where this susceptibility of snails for coffee was found by accident. You could make a good cup of coffee and try it on the aquatic snails, if it works, you can try it with the plants. I don't know about the concentration or if decafeinated coffee would also work. I once tried to kill wire algae with cuppersulphate (at a lower concentration than advised by A. Slack), and it effectively killed all plant life in my aquarium, both algae and Utrics. So be carefull. Wim At 09:09 AM 4/16/2005, you wrote: >Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:28:12 EDT >From: HmrTheHrmt@aol.com >Subject: [CP] Snailicide >To: Cp@omnisterra.com >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >Does anyone have any recommendations for a good snail-i-cide to use to >kill aquatic snails but not harm the Utricularia and Aldrovanda that >the snails are > decimating? I prefer not to have an "in order to save the village, >we had to destroy it" scenario. I would imagine if I dropped by a pet >store, they would have some sort of a remedy, but has anyone ever tried >them, and how did they affect the plants? ################### From: tarnjah at iprimus.com.au (Tarnjah Myers) Date: Mon Apr 18 02:36:49 2005 Subject: [CP] Heliamphora question I recently bought my first Heliamphora which is H.nutans. It's just a baby, so I'm not sure how old it is. It is doing very well and it's newest juvenile pitcher is 5cm long and it has about 6 pitchers in total. So my question is, firstly, can anyone tell me how old it might be approximately and, secondly, how old would it normally be before it produces the adult pitchers. So what I really want to know is how much longer I might have to wait until the adult pitchers appear. Thank you in advance for any responses. ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Mon Apr 18 07:11:56 2005 Subject: [CP] Algaecide NO! NO! NO! Hi everyone, I've been sort of following this thread, and figured I'd add my two cents. First, I agree with John's sentiments: > >ARRGHHHH!!!! NO! NO! NO! NO! (sounds of yrs truly choking on tea and >toast!!) While seemingly dramatic, I'd highly recommend against adding in any nutrients in any form. Ammonia can be very toxic, especially as pH and/or temperature increase. If you happen to keep other critters in your aquaria, you could kill them off. While ammonia is utilized by plants, an excess can lead to nuisance algal blooms, something even worse for your aquatic utrics. Getting rid of algae means having to starve it of nutrients (i.e., frequent water changes). Additions of peat tea also help, as the humic acids bind with phosphorus making it relatively unavailable for plant growth. There's always a fine balance though for water changes that starve the algae out but still allow for sufficient plant growth. For snails, most snail-i-cides consist of some form of copper, which invertebrates are very sensitive to. The trick is killing off the snails without killing off the plants, something that most people fail to recognize in time. I like the lettuce leaf method. Another method that works well, and especially with aquatic cp, is again to use very soft peat tea water. The acidity and low calcium carbonate concentration helps prevent shell formation in snails, and the low pH is also unsuitable for them. Again though, if you have other aquatic critters, it could adversely affect them as well. Good luck! Chris ################### From: erccmacfitheal at yahoo.com (Nathan Miller) Date: Mon Apr 18 11:31:09 2005 Subject: [CP] Re:snail-i-cide --- Venus Vliegenval wrote: > I read that land snails and slugs can be killed with plain coffee. The > article was a bit short on details. It was an article about resaerch > done in a tropical forest, where this susceptibility of snails for > coffee was found by accident. > > You could make a good cup of coffee and try it on the aquatic snails, > if it works, you can try it with the plants. I don't know about the > concentration or if decafeinated coffee would also work. It'd the caffeine in coffee that's toxic to gastropods. Apparently, the stimulant properties of the chemical accelerates their heartrates to the point that they suffer cardiac arrest. Since caffeine is highly water soluble, it passes easily into the critter despite its mucous coating. Caffeine is also fairly acidic. Since CP like acidic conditions, this might not be a bad thing (although I won't say for sure at the risk of contracting additional strains of foot-in-mouth). Nathan Miller Newberg, OR __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides! http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Mon Apr 18 13:00:56 2005 Subject: [CP] Heliamphora question. Heliamphora question (Tarnjah Myers). Tarnjah asked about how quickly a Heliamphora will produce mature pitchers. I find that that the H.nutans that I have obtained in the past will take roughly a year. You may find that one day, the plant may produce a sort of hybrid pitcher, a halfway stage between juvenile and adult pitcher, then you know that it won't be long before it produces fully adult pitchers. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Mon Apr 18 14:23:32 2005 Subject: [CP] U. gibba all this water talk has re-awakened my curiosity about all the plant life currently thriving in my window box acrylic water tray. i checked recently and saw all those little gleeful daphnia zipping deftly through the tangle of U. gibba, keeping the algae in check. i was a little worried, since they all but disappeared over the winter. dormancy, freshly hatched eggs, whatever--they're back. but could they have also been re-introduced on the beaks of birds? just wondering. there seems to be a neverending stream of oxygen bubbles rising from the Utric stems. plants are so cool. but i've been wondering, is U. gibba known to feed on mosquito larvae? the traps are awfully small. all i know is that i haven't had any mosquito problems at all and my tray water gets more and more choked with U. gibba. but that might be the result of aggressive mosquito eradication due to the dreaded (but way over-hyped) West Nile virus. but if they are eating mosquito larvae, well then all the more reason not to take this little plant for granted as i have. Gary Kong -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: Jeremiahsplants at adelphia.net (Jeremiah Harris) Date: Mon Apr 18 21:30:41 2005 Subject: [CP] First major trade list of the year, almost 70 varieties Hello everyone, I'm celebrating spring with some nice plants for trade to kick off the trading season. I'm not really looking for anything in particular just Carnivorous Plants I don't grow. If you have anything you think I might be interested in let me know my email is jeremiahsplants@adelphia.net. My grow list will be in the reply. Here we go... C. follicularis 1 plants for trade D. californica 2 plants for trade D. muscipula 10 D. muscipula 'Big Mouth' 1 D. muscipula "Dente" 10 D. muscipula "Giant" from BestCarnivorousPlants.com 1 D. muscipula 'Red Piranha' 1 D. muscipula 'Royal Red' 1 D. adelae 1 D. admirabilis Palmiet River, RSA A11 D. admirabilis Palmiet River, RSA A2 4 D. aliciae 2 D. anglica Alakai Swamp Kauai, HI 2 D. brevifolia 2 D. burmannii Beerwah, QLD 10 D. capensis 10 D. dichotoma "Giant" 10 D. intermedia 3 D. intermedia "Carolina Giant"2 D. madasgascarensis "Bostwana" 3 D. multifida "Extrema" 10 D. spatulata 10 D. spatulata Borneo 3 D. tokaiensis 3 D. sp. 'Zimbabwe, Chimanimani Mnts' 10 D. scorpioides 6 D. paleacea roseana 6 D. pulchella x D. ericksoniae 10 H. heterodoxa x nutans 1 N. so 1 3" N. lowii 3 3" N. macfarlanei 1 3" N. ovata 13" N. sanguinea 'Red'1 3" N. villosa 1 2 1/2" N. tentaculata unrooted cutting 2 N. x mirabilis x khasiana unrooted cutting 1 N. khasiana unrooted cutting 2 N. x spathulata x maxima male rooted cutting 1 N. x ventricosa x talangensis rooted cutting 2 P. jaumavensis 3 P. lusitanica 10 P. x 'Enigma'1 P. kondoi 1 P. x 'sethos' 1 S. alata red throat 2 S. minor Long CO, GA. 1 S. rubra ssp. Wherryii Typical 1 S. psittacina 1 S. x alata x minor 2 S. x Dixie Lace 2 U. alpina 1 U. bisquamata 2 U. dichotoma 2 U. fulva 2 U. graminifolia 4 U. livida 6 U. livida Bettys Beach 2 U. livida durban 2 U. livida merriwuk 1 U. longifolia 3 U. nephrophylla 2 U. prehensilis 1 U. pubescens Serra caraca 1 U. sandersonii 5 U. subulata 5 U. tricolor 1 U. welwitschii 2 thanks -Jeremiah- ________________________________________________________ Colorado Carnivorous Plant Society Jeremiah Harris 712 Columbia Rd Colorado Springs CO 80904 (719)-578-8123 AIM: Nepenthesrajah jeremiahsplants@adelphia.net http://www.geocities.com/colorado_carnivorousplantsociety/ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.16 - Release Date: 4/18/2005 ################### From: Jeremiahsplants at adelphia.net (Jeremiah Harris) Date: Mon Apr 18 21:35:44 2005 Subject: [CP] First major trade list of the year, My grow list... Aldrovanda A. vesiculosa Brocchinia B. reducte Bybilis B. liniflora Cephalotus C. follicularis C. follicularis giant, Clone from Germany Darlingtonia D. californica Dionaea D. muscipula D. muscipula 'Big Mouth' D. muscipula 'clumping cultivar' D. muscipula "Dente" D. muscipula "Giant" from BestCarnivorousPlants.com D. muscipula "Green Dragon" D. muscipula "Red Dragon" D. muscipula 'Red Dragon' x Jaws D. muscipula 'Red Piranha' D. muscipula 'Royal Red' D. muscipula Jaws x 'Red Dragon' Drosera D. adelae D. admirabilis Palmiet River, RSA A1 D. admirabilis Palmiet River, RSA A2 D. aliciae D. anglica D. anglica Alakai Swamp Kauai, HI D. anglica HI D. anglica CA x HI D. ascendens D. ascendens Brazil D. binata D. brevifolia D. burmannii Bangalore India D. burmannii Beerwah, QLD D. calilloris Nokomis Alabama D. capensis D. capensis 'Albino' D. capensis "Red" D. capillaris D. dichotoma "Giant" D. dielsiana D. filiformis D. filiformis 'California Sunset' D. filiformis var. tracyi D. gigantea just starting to climb 3-10-04 D. hartmeyerorum seeds 11-5-04 D. indica D. indica Narrabri, NSW seeds 2-25-04 D. intermedia D. intermedia Bahia Brazil D. intermedia "Carolina Giant" D. intermedia (anglica CA x HI) D. kenneallyi SS Clone #1 D. lanata Triffid Park clone D. natalensis D. nidiformis D. madagascariensis D. madasgascarensis "Bostwana" D. Marston Dragon D, montana var tomentosa Minas Gerais State Brazil D. multifida "Extrema" D. ordensis 'Mulligan's Lagoon' D. paradoxa D. peltata seeds 2-25-04 D. petiolaris "All Red" Ed Read D. prolifera D. pumilla D. regia D. rotundifolia D. rotundifolia Anchorage, Alaska D. rotundifolia New Forest, England D. schizandra D. sessilifolia D. spatulata D. spatulata Borneo D. tokaiensis seeds 2-25-04 D. venusta D. venusta orig. Sean Samia D. sp Jacoby D. sp Cuba 2 D. sp. 'Zimbabwe, Chimanimani Mnts' Hybrids D. x beleziana = (D. rotundifolia x D. intermedia) Pygmys D. callistos D. nitidula ssp omissa (?) D. pulchella "Red Flower WEO37b" D. paleacea ssp. stelliflora D. scorpioides D. pulchella ssp. Faredale W.A. D. paleacea x callistoss D. paleacea ssp. trichocaulis D. paleacea roseana D. nitidula ssp. nitidula x D. pygmaea W.A. South coast form D. occidentalis var australis "Warriup Form" D. paleacea ssp paleacea D. nitidula x pulchella D. pulchella x D. ericksoniae D. C-1 D. pulchella weo 37b red fl. D. ericksoniae x pulchella D. echinobalstus D. paleacea ssp stelliflora D. callistos WEO-49 bm Brookton form? D. nitidula ssp. nitidula D. callistos brookton form lowrie D. dichrosepala ssp. enoedes Drosophyllum D. lusitani ds planted 2-26-04 sprouted 3-11-04 using the sand paper method then let them sit is water for 8 hours Genlisea G. hispidula G. lobata G. pygmaea G. violacea "Giant" Heliamphora H. ionasii (Ilu Tepui) H. minor H. nutans H. tatei var tatei AW H. sp. Yuruani Tepui Hybrids H. heterodoxa x minor H. heterodoxa x nutans Ibicella I. Lutea seeds 2-26-04 sprouted 3-8-04 by letting them sit in a very small amount of water for 8 hours I. proboscidea Nepenthes Lowland N. alata "boschiana mimic" N. alata lowland mo N. alata variegated leaf form N. albomarginata (Penang) Red, clone E N. albomarginata "spotted" N. ampullaria "green" N. ampullaria CR-29 'Red' BE N. ampullaria 'spotted' N. bellii N. bicalcarata N. campanulata male N. clipeata clone #1 may be N. clipeata x (eymae x clipeata) N. clipeata G. kelam AW True N. clipeata N. gracilis "typical" N. gracilis "nigrapurpurea" N. hirsuta N. insignis N. macrovulgaris N. merrilliana N. mindanaoensis N. mirabilis 'echinostoma' N. northiana N. rafflesiana N. rafflesiana 'Elongata' N. rafflesiana 'Singapore Giant' N. reinwardtiana Bau MT N. sumatrana N. truncata N. veitchii lowland Highland N. alata Highland red Striped N. argentii N. aristolochioides (Sumatra) N. so (Gunung Merapi, Sumatra) N. boschiana N. burbidgeae N. copelandii N. densiflora (Sumatra) N. diatas (Bandahara) N. diatas "meadow form" N. dubia seed BE N. ephippiata (Gunung Rajah, Borneo) N. eustachya red/purple N. eymae N. faizaliana N. fallax (formerly stenophylla) N. fusca 'crocker range' from Andrew Marshall N. fusca Sarawak N. fusca flaired BE N. glabrata N. gymnamphora Gunung Singgalang aw N. hamata mo N. hamata H75/JK BE N. inermis Gunung Gadut Sumatra aw N. jacquelineae 1850 m be N. khasiana N. lavicola (G. Telong, Sumatra) N. longifolia N. lowii Mt. Trus Madi N. lowii Mt. Trus Madi 2300m elevation N. lowii G. Mulu. Jeff Shafer N. macfarlanei MT N. macfarlanei N. macrophylla BE N. macrophylla (Gunung Trus Madi, Borneo) May be N. macrophylla x lowii N. madagascariensis N. maxima dark x sulewesi N. maxima JD N. maxima Jeff Shafer N. maxima (Waghete, Irian Jaza) N. mikei BE N. mira N. muluensis N. murudensis N. ovata (Pangulubao, Sumatra) N. pectinata N. petiolata N. pilosa N. platychila N. rajah N. ramispina N. reinwardtiana pasia red N. sanguinea N. sanguinea clone (e) N. sanguinea 'Red' N. sanguinea 'Orange' N. sibuyanensis N. singalana N. spathulata N. spectabilis (G. baudasara) N. talangensis (Gunung Talang, Sumatra) N. tentaculata N. tobaica N. tobaica (Dark Red) N. truncata Highland N. veitchii Bareo Highland MT N. veitchii Striped Peristome Jeff Shaffer N. ventricosa black/purple peristome N. ventricosa 'red' male N. villosa Hybrids N. x alata x maxima from Joseph Anselmo N. (aristolochioides x thorelli) x Miranda N. x bicalcarata x ? N. x burbidgeae x edwardsiana MT N. x Coccinea N. x gracilis x ampullaria N. x Holland Hybrid N. x Judith Finn male N. x lowii x truncata ep N. x lowii x ventricosa red N. x Koto "effiugent" LHSN N. x macfarlanei x (tobiaca x thorelii) EP N. x macfarlanei x ventricular N. x maxima x fusca "elongata" N. x maxima dark x (northiana x veitchii) N. x mirabilis gold x mixta superba male N. x mirabilis x khasiana N. x mirabilis x Otraniama N. x mirmda N. x 'Mixta' N. x muluensis x lowii N. x pilosa x veitchii N. x 'Predator' (truncata x hamata) N. x reinwardtiana x macrovulgaris N. x rokko x fusca N. x rokko x (thorelli x Coccinea) N. x sanguinea x truncata N. x spathulata x ampullaria-straits N. x spathulata x maxima male N. x spathulata x spectabilis N. x spectabilis x ventricosa N. x 'Superba' female N. x 'Superba' x (spathulata x maxima) N. x thorelii x aristolochioides N. x thorelii x (x ventrata x tobaica) N. x truncata x hamata "N. x Predator" N. x truncata x stenophylla N. x truncata x (stenophylla x lowii) ep N. x truncata x ventricosa red ep N. x veitchii x lowii vxc 14 N. x 'Velvet' N. x 'Ventrata' N. x ventricosa x maxima N. x ventricosa squat x (spectabilis x northiana) DP N. x ventricosa x talangensis N. x 'Wrigleyana' N. 6 unknow hybrids Pinguicula P. agnata P. agnata "Blue" P. agnata True Blue PF P. agnata 'El Lobo' P. agnata Uobet Hown P. caerulea P. cyclosectia (3) P. ehlersiae P. ehlersiae CV. Harold P. esseriana P. gigantea form CP bog P. gigantea from Michel P. gigantea Phil's Giant P. hemiepiphytica PF P. ionantha seed planted 2-20-04 P. jaumavensis P. kondoi P. laueana P. lusitanica P. lutea P. moranensis P. moranensis var. caudata P. moranensis CV. 'Huahuapan' P. oblingiloba P. planifolia P. potosiensis P. primuliflora P. rectifolia P, rosei PF P. rotundiflora P. vulgaris P. vulgaris Kenai P. villosa P. zecheri Hybrids P. x agnata x gypsicola P. x agnata x caudata P. x agnata x moranensis x ehlersai P. x agnata "Scented flower" x potosiensis P. x aphrodite P. x caudata x ehlersiae P. x 'Enigma' P. x 'George Seargent' P. x 'Gina' P. John Rizzi PF P. laueana CP2 x emarginata (This is Vic Brown's clone) P. x 'Pirouette' P. x moranensis x ehlersiae P. x moranensis x ehlersiae ? From Forbes Conrad P. x 'sethos' P. x 'sethos' x gypsicola P. sp. Pico de Orizaba P. x "Tina" P Yucca Do 1714 P Yucca Do 1715 P Yucca Do 1717 Sarracenia S. alata red throat S. flava S. flava 'red tube' S. flava 'Oabata' "Heavy Veined" Waltona Co. FL S. flava "Virginia" S. leucophylla S. leucophylla N. Wallon Co. FL (Wilkerson Bog) S. leucophylla "Red" S. leucophylla "Tarnok" S. minor S. minor Long CO, GA. S. psittacina S. purpurea ssp. venosa S. purpurea ssp. venosa var. Chipola S. purpurea S. purpurea ssp. purpurea f. heterophylla from Meadowview S. rubra S. rubra gulfensis S. rubra gulfensis Crestview, FL S. rubra ssp. jonesii S. rubra ssp. Wherryii Typical S. oreophila sand Mt #4 Hybrids S. x alata 'Black' x flava 'Red' S. x alata x minor S. x "Catsbaei" S. x "Catsbaei" x oreophila S. 'Dana's Delight' S. x Dixie Lace S. x flava x purpurea S. x flava x (purpurea x flava) S. x flava x psittacina S. x Judith Hindle S. x June Bug S. 'Leah Wilkerson x mitchelliana S. x leucophylla antho free x jonesis open-pollinated S. x leucophylla x oreophila S,. x minor x rubra S. x mitchelliana ? S. x Moorei (leucophylla - small pitchers red vain x flava Red Tube) S. x Moorei yellow and white S. x oreophila x (flava x purpurea) S. x oreophila x flava S. x purpurea x rubra S. x psittacina x purpurea venosa S. x rubra x minor S. x rubra Gulfensis x(leucophylla x flava) S. x rubra gulfensis x moorei S. oreophila x leucophylla S. x "Wrigleyana" Utricularia U. alpina U. arenaria U. beugleholei U. bisquamata U. blanchetii white U. calycifida U. dichotoma U. dichotoma U. monanthos U. dichotoma 'Turoa NZ' U. fulva U. gibba U. graminifolia U. lateriflora U. livida U. livida Bettys Beach U. livida durban U. livida merriwuk U. longifolia U. multifida seeds 2-25-04 U. nephrophylla U. praelonga U. prehensilis U. pubescens U. pubescens Serra caraca U. sandersonii U. sandersonii 'blue' U. subulata U. tricolor U. tridentata U. uliginosa U. uniflora U. vulgaris U. warburgii U. welwitschii U. sp-1 unknown U. sp-2 unknown ________________________________________________________ Colorado Carnivorous Plant Society Jeremiah Harris 712 Columbia Rd Colorado Springs CO 80904 (719)-578-8123 AIM: Nepenthesrajah jeremiahsplants@adelphia.net http://www.geocities.com/colorado_carnivorousplantsociety/ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.16 - Release Date: 4/18/2005 _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.16 - Release Date: 4/18/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.16 - Release Date: 4/18/2005 ################### From: MHowlett at hcp4.net (Howlett, Mike) Date: Tue Apr 19 07:28:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Sarracenia 'All Red' vs. S. x 'Dana's Delight'? Hello all - At the risk of starting another "Scarlet Bells/Maroon Bells" or "venosa var. Louis Burke/rosea" thread, I can't seem to find what I'm looking for in the CP Database... I've had some Sarracenia for a couple of years now that were sold to me as 'Sarracenia leucophylla 'All Red.' They have similar morphology to the standard tall forms of leucophylla, but have no discernable green coloration in the hood and upper portion of the pitchers. Also a LOT more red, to the point of looking almost Day-Glo. These look almost identical to the widely cultured and distributed Sarracenia 'Dana's Delight,' which I also have. I believe I read on Dean Cook's website that this is S. willisi (sp.?) crossed with S. leucophylla? I can't find any references to either of these in the CP Database, and am skeptical of using Google for fear of getting misinformation ('feed your VFT ground beef' syndrome). So can someone please shed some light (pun intended) on the parentage of these two, and if they are the same cultivar? Thanks in advance! Regards, Mike Howlett Naturalist, Herpetoculturist & Carnivorous Plant Enthusiast Jesse H. Jones Park & Nature Center 20634 Kenswick Drive Humble, TX 77338 281-446-8588 mhowlett@hcp4.net www.hcp4.net/jones -----Original Message----- Behalf Of Cp-request@omnisterra.com Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 2:03 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Send Cp mailing list submissions to Cp@omnisterra.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to Cp-request@omnisterra.com You can reach the person managing the list at Cp-owner@omnisterra.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Cp digest..." CP Mailing list Today's Topics: 1. casting call fororegon a (mike wilder) 2. casting call for oregon washington and bay area nepenthes growers (mike wilder) 3. Algaecide NO! NO! NO! (JWi5770869@aol.com) 4. Re:snail-i-cide (Venus Vliegenval) 5. Heliamphora question (Tarnjah Myers) 6. RE: Algaecide NO! NO! NO! (Chris Teichreb) 7. Re: Re:snail-i-cide (Nathan Miller) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed mike wilder www.geocities.com/pingenstein ------------------------------ Message: 2 nepenthes growers To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed hello, sorry for the accidental post a minute ago. I've been working on a 3d documentary about carnivorous plants for over a year now. It will be completed in fall 2005 and will be available on dvd. if you've seen my 2d "carnivorous syndrome", imagine similar time lapse videos except in 3d, with high quality 3d animation, music, narration, etc. i am seeking nepenthes growers in oregon washington state and/or the bay area who would be willing to let me take 3d photographs of some rare specimens for this film. I am particularly eager to find someone with a medium sized n. hamata-- i really need to photograph a plant with well-developed teeth on the peristome. i'm also very eager to hear from growers of n.n. aristolochioides, edwardsiana, villosa, or lowii. if you have medium to large specimens of these or other interesting species, and would be interested in having your baby in a 3d documentary, please email me offlist at: it_290@hotmail.com i can give participating people multiple copies of the finished dvd, and acknowledgement in the credits if you desire (i know some people have justified privacy concerns because of potential theft.) certainly if you email me with a list of your plants i will treat it as confidential. i would appreciate it if you would list the approximate plant/pitcher size--i'm not so interested in tiny examples which are fairly fresh from the tc lab. thanks very much in advance for your time, and if you have nice specimens please seriously consider contacting me. i really want viewers of this documentary to see the finest and most shocking nepenthes! if you are growing them, please consider this opportunity to let others see the fruits of your dedicated growing. mike wilder www.geocities.com/pingenstein ------------------------------ Message: 3 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <662C6962.77B654A4.0B3100D4@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I haven't tried this with aquatics, but it works very well for terrestrials.I use a 3040% ammonia solution which I keep in a spray bottle.This mixture has a devastating effect on slugs and snails, as its effect is nearly instantaneous (well, within a few seconds anyway). At the same time it has little if any effect on nearby plants, including newly-germinated seedlings. As ammonia is a nitrogen compound, it breaks down in the soil and contributes to soil fertillity, if only in a minor way. You could try pouring a mixture is similar strenght into your water. On the down side, this will increase the nitrogen level in your water to some extent and may encourage algae growth. On the other hand, don't small aquatic animals feed on this and don't aquatic CP then feed on them? Anyway, it's worth a try. Nathan Miller Newberg, OR ARRGHHHH!!!! NO! NO! NO! NO! (sounds of yrs truly choking on tea and toast!!) "...and may encourage algae growth." It WILL encourage algae growth. Don't forget that a lot of aquatic utrics come from waters that are deficient in the same minerals as terrestrial CP's, so if the algae doesn't smother and kill the plants, then I suspect that the excess ammonia/nitrogen will.There may be other side effects, such as other alteration to the water chemistry (Ph for instance), but I'm no expert on this, so others may wish to comment. Aquaria are self contained systems and its very difficult to not only attain a balance, but to maintain it. Adding something that aquarists spend all of their time trying to remove(excess nitrogen) is just asking for trouble. "...Anyway, it's worth a try." No its not. You've stated that you've not tried it with aquatics, so you've no idea if it will work or not.Whilst your advice is well intentioned it could lead to somebody else paying the price, by losing their plants. Apologies for the flamey nature of this reply, but it is difficult to be diplomatic when all I can see from this thread is a bunch of dead utrics! Regards John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK ------------------------------ Message: 4 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <24e3ed105041802001220d5ab@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I read that land snails and slugs can be killed with plain coffee. The article was a bit short on details. It was an article about resaerch done in a tropical forest, where this susceptibility of snails for coffee was found by accident. You could make a good cup of coffee and try it on the aquatic snails, if it works, you can try it with the plants. I don't know about the concentration or if decafeinated coffee would also work. I once tried to kill wire algae with cuppersulphate (at a lower concentration than advised by A. Slack), and it effectively killed all plant life in my aquarium, both algae and Utrics. So be carefull. Wim At 09:09 AM 4/16/2005, you wrote: >Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:28:12 EDT >From: HmrTheHrmt@aol.com >Subject: [CP] Snailicide >To: Cp@omnisterra.com >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >Does anyone have any recommendations for a good snail-i-cide to use to >kill aquatic snails but not harm the Utricularia and Aldrovanda that >the snails are > decimating? I prefer not to have an "in order to save the village, >we had to destroy it" scenario. I would imagine if I dropped by a pet >store, they would have some sort of a remedy, but has anyone ever tried >them, and how did they affect the plants? ------------------------------ Message: 5 To: Message-ID: <002101c543fa$2600d180$84811bd3@Default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I recently bought my first Heliamphora which is H.nutans. It's just a baby, so I'm not sure how old it is. It is doing very well and it's newest juvenile pitcher is 5cm long and it has about 6 pitchers in total. So my question is, firstly, can anyone tell me how old it might be approximately and, secondly, how old would it normally be before it produces the adult pitchers. So what I really want to know is how much longer I might have to wait until the adult pitchers appear. Thank you in advance for any responses. Tarnjah ------------------------------ Message: 6 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi everyone, I've been sort of following this thread, and figured I'd add my two cents. First, I agree with John's sentiments: > >ARRGHHHH!!!! NO! NO! NO! NO! (sounds of yrs truly choking on tea and >toast!!) While seemingly dramatic, I'd highly recommend against adding in any nutrients in any form. Ammonia can be very toxic, especially as pH and/or temperature increase. If you happen to keep other critters in your aquaria, you could kill them off. While ammonia is utilized by plants, an excess can lead to nuisance algal blooms, something even worse for your aquatic utrics. Getting rid of algae means having to starve it of nutrients (i.e., frequent water changes). Additions of peat tea also help, as the humic acids bind with phosphorus making it relatively unavailable for plant growth. There's always a fine balance though for water changes that starve the algae out but still allow for sufficient plant growth. For snails, most snail-i-cides consist of some form of copper, which invertebrates are very sensitive to. The trick is killing off the snails without killing off the plants, something that most people fail to recognize in time. I like the lettuce leaf method. Another method that works well, and especially with aquatic cp, is again to use very soft peat tea water. The acidity and low calcium carbonate concentration helps prevent shell formation in snails, and the low pH is also unsuitable for them. Again though, if you have other aquatic critters, it could adversely affect them as well. Good luck! Chris ------------------------------ Message: 7 To: Venus Vliegenval , Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Message-ID: <20050418183100.78407.qmail@web31509.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Venus Vliegenval wrote: > I read that land snails and slugs can be killed with plain coffee. The > article was a bit short on details. It was an article about resaerch > done in a tropical forest, where this susceptibility of snails for > coffee was found by accident. > > You could make a good cup of coffee and try it on the aquatic snails, > if it works, you can try it with the plants. I don't know about the > concentration or if decafeinated coffee would also work. It'd the caffeine in coffee that's toxic to gastropods. Apparently, the stimulant properties of the chemical accelerates their heartrates to the point that they suffer cardiac arrest. Since caffeine is highly water soluble, it passes easily into the critter despite its mucous coating. Caffeine is also fairly acidic. Since CP like acidic conditions, this might not be a bad thing (although I won't say for sure at the risk of contracting additional strains of foot-in-mouth). Nathan Miller Newberg, OR __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides! http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com End of Cp Digest, Vol 23, Issue 19 ********************************** ################### From: vmiranda at rc.unesp.br (Vitor Miranda) Date: Tue Apr 19 08:39:26 2005 Subject: [CP] D. meristocaulis seedilings Congratulations for those that could get germination of D. meristocaulis. Does anyone could take any picture of seedlings? I am very curious to know about the germination characters. All the best, Vitor Brazil. ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Tue Apr 19 16:52:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: U gibba U. gibba will trap skeeter larva. The larva is too big to digest so the trap will just die but so will the larva. Not that one trap is a big deal to U gibba, expecially prolific U. gibba like some types. TRE ################### From: k.m.wilson at phys.uu.nl (Keith Wilson) Date: Wed Apr 20 06:19:25 2005 Subject: [CP] Hungry Plants Open day in Holland Just to let those in the Netherlands, Belgium and N. Germany know we are having our first open day this sunday, 24th April 13:00 to 17:00. Location: Rosmalen, near s'Hertogenbosch, N. Brabant, in the south of the Netherlands. See: http://www.hungryplants.nl/openday.htm Gert Hoogenstrijd, will be giving a slide show (in Dutch) entitled "Vleesetende planten zoeken in Venezuela", about his expeditions to Venezuela, S. America in search of various carnivorous plants. My Sarracenia collection and hardy Drosera are currently housed in a 14m polytunnel. The sub-tropical Cephalotus, Drosera, Pinguicula and Ulticularia are kept in a small heated / insulated greenhouse over the winter. In addition hardy and native carnivorous plants are grown in an outdoor bog, and tropical varieties such as Nepenthes and Heliamphora, are grown and propagated in terraria, under lights, indoors. I sell carnivorous plants by mail order and at open days. I also supply a wide range of tropical carnivorous plants from Gert Hoogenstrijd. See: http://www.hungryplants.nl/saleslist.htm Children are very welcome as we have lots of space, a trampoline and a climbing frame. See http://www.hungryplants.nl/openday.htm for directions. Best regards, Keith Wilson ################### From: dstewart at protocolusa.com (Davin Stewart) Date: Wed Apr 20 07:03:19 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: First major trade list of the year, almost 70 varieties Jeremy, Quite the impressive growlist there. Unfortunately, I don't have much (read: anything) to offer you atm, I'm curious about your growing conditions. Where do you live? Do you have a greenhouse? A really, really large basement with terrariums? What cooling systems do you use? What lights are you growing these under? I'm currently experimenting with LED growlights. I got mine from solar oasis. I've got a venus flytrap (just a department store generic variety) growing under a 40 bulb LED growlight with some success. It's putting out big heathly traps but lacks almost any decent red coloration. I'm leaving the light on for 24 hours/day and will write up my results for CPN after it's been growing in these conditions for a while. I think that the light is just shy of being able to grow a really healthy plant but would probably be perfect for something with slightly less light requirements, like a nice ping, epiphytic utric, or maybe a jewel orchid. I've included a link to some pictures I took of my setup. Sorry about the size, they're rather large. http://share.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=EeAOGbVk5btmj1g Davin "I hear and I forget, I see and I remember, I do and I understand." - Confusius ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Wed Apr 20 10:32:53 2005 Subject: [CP] Nepenthes ventricosa pollen available and needed Dear CP-lovers, I have three _Nepenthes ventricosa_ which are in need of companionship. The problem (for me) is the first to flower will be the female, followed in a few weeks by two males. By the time the males start to flower, I fear the female will be past blooming. The female plant has normal yellowish coloration with pink speckles, as does male #1. Male #2 has solid-pink pitchers--this one makes amazing looking babies! I don't have photos of them, but when I crossed it onto _N._ 'Splendid Diana', the baby plants came out entirely pink! I don't know why, neither parent has red leaves... If anyone has pollen to donate, except of _N. ventrata_, I will split the seed produced with the donor(s) and/or send it to the ICPS seedbank. Same for pollen I donate, I would like to be able to receive a portion (up to 50%) of any seed which might be produced, or if I forgo my portion, please consider sending some into a seedbank for further distribution. I think the female (from seed produced by my drying and sending pollen all the way across the country, arranged right here on this list :) will start opening her flowers within a couple of days, so if you're interested, please don't delay in preparing and sending the pollen. ################### From: tai-pan at myrealbox.com (Francisco Javier) Date: Wed Apr 20 10:42:18 2005 Subject: [CP] Nepenthes and other carnivorous plants in vitro. Hi: Francisco here, from www.pasioncarnivora.com , In order to import and commercialize, we are looking for some nephentes and other carnivorous plants in vitro. If some one are interested and have some species please send me a mail ( Info@pasioncarnivora.com ) including all the species you use to distribute and the costs of each one. Thanks a lot in advance Francisco Quintana Info@pasioncarnivora.com ################### From: Cokendolpher at aol.com (Cokendolpher@aol.com) Date: Wed Apr 20 10:49:28 2005 Subject: [CP] Nepenthes ventricosa pollen available and needed In a message dated 4/20/05 12:33:41 PM, dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu writes: > Dear CP-lovers, > > > ? ? I have three _Nepenthes ventricosa_ which are in need of companionship. > The problem (for me) is the first to flower will be the female, followed in > a few weeks by two males.? By the time the males start to flower, I fear the > female will be past blooming. > > ? ? The female plant has normal yellowish coloration with pink speckles, as > does male #1.? Male #2 has solid-pink pitchers--this one makes amazing > looking babies!? I don't have photos of them, but when I crossed it onto > _N._ 'Splendid Diana', the baby plants came out entirely pink!? I don't know > why, neither parent has red leaves... > > ? ? If anyone has pollen to donate, except of _N. ventrata_, I will split > the seed produced with the donor(s) and/or send it to the ICPS seedbank. > Same for pollen I donate, I would like to be able to receive a portion (up > to 50%) of any seed which might be produced, or if I forgo my portion, > please consider sending some into a seedbank for further distribution. > > ? ? I think the female (from seed produced by my drying and sending pollen > all the way across the country, arranged right here on this list :) will > start opening her flowers within a couple of days, so if you're interested, > please don't delay in preparing and sending the pollen. > > > Thank-you, > Dave Evans > _______________ > ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Wed Apr 20 11:06:59 2005 Subject: [CP] Nepenthes ventricosa pollen available and needed Dear James, If the flowers at the bottoms of the spikes are just about to open/already open that would be perfect for pollen production! I haven't tried making the male flowers into cuttings for transport, but I don't see any reason for it not to work :) If I place them in a vase in a bright spot, they should continue to flower and produce pollen. I'll send my address in a direct email. Thank you, Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of Cokendolpher@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 1:49 PM Hi Dale, I have two ventricosa males in bloom now. If interested, let me know and I will send the entire spikes so you can collect the pollen as it develops. Cheers, James ################### From: buddhabear at usadatanet.net (Dustin Truesdell) Date: Wed Apr 20 12:48:59 2005 Subject: [CP] LED Growlights To Davin Stewart, Upon looking at your photographs of your Dionaea LED setup, I am impressed and a bit puzzled. LED lights are very bright and emit virtually no heat energy. Reading that your flytrap does grow decently, but lacks the typical coloration, why not move the led closer to the plant? From the photos it looks like the light is about 8 inches or so away from the plant. Good growing! ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Wed Apr 20 12:50:56 2005 Subject: [CP] LED Growlights the key is the spectrum. ahh finally CPers realize that theres more to light than lumens. 40 watters dont cut it folks. Chris Hind Homestead, FL --- Dustin Truesdell wrote: > To Davin Stewart, > > Upon looking at your photographs of your Dionaea > LED setup, I am impressed and a bit puzzled. LED > lights are very bright and emit virtually no heat > energy. Reading that your flytrap does grow > decently, but lacks the typical coloration, why not > move the led closer to the plant? From the photos it > looks like the light is about 8 inches or so away > from the plant. > > Good growing! > > Dustin Truesdell > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: Jeremiahsplants at adelphia.net (Jeremiah Harris) Date: Wed Apr 20 13:02:08 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: First major trade list of the year, almost 70 varieties Hello I'm in Colorado Springs CO. I have two greenhouses one highland and one lowland. I also grow some in a Lowland grow chamber in the winter and highland grow chamber in the summer. That does look interesting and the VFt really does not look bad. Where do you get a LED growlight like that? thanks -Jeremiah- ________________________________________________________ Colorado Carnivorous Plant Society Jeremiah Harris 712 Columbia Rd Colorado Springs CO 80904 (719)-578-8123 AIM: Nepenthesrajah jeremiahsplants@adelphia.net http://www.geocities.com/colorado_carnivorousplantsociety/ ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 8:02 AM Jeremy, Quite the impressive growlist there. Unfortunately, I don't have much (read: anything) to offer you atm, I'm curious about your growing conditions. Where do you live? Do you have a greenhouse? A really, really large basement with terrariums? What cooling systems do you use? What lights are you growing these under? I'm currently experimenting with LED growlights. I got mine from solar oasis. I've got a venus flytrap (just a department store generic variety) growing under a 40 bulb LED growlight with some success. It's putting out big heathly traps but lacks almost any decent red coloration. I'm leaving the light on for 24 hours/day and will write up my results for CPN after it's been growing in these conditions for a while. I think that the light is just shy of being able to grow a really healthy plant but would probably be perfect for something with slightly less light requirements, like a nice ping, epiphytic utric, or maybe a jewel orchid. I've included a link to some pictures I took of my setup. Sorry about the size, they're rather large. http://share.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=EeAOGbVk5btmj1g Davin "I hear and I forget, I see and I remember, I do and I understand." - Confusius _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.17 - Release Date: 4/19/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.19 - Release Date: 4/20/2005 ################### From: cwmorrow at gbronline.com (Wayne Morrow) Date: Wed Apr 20 15:42:36 2005 Subject: [CP] U .giiba >U. gibba will trap skeeter larva. The larva is too big to digest so the trap will just die but so will the larva. > This is true. I keep tubs outside for rainwater. The larvae develop while gibba keeps a firm grip on them. Pretty cool if you really dislike mosquitoes. Wayne Morrow ################### From: freves at intergate.com (freves@intergate.com) Date: Wed Apr 20 17:13:12 2005 Subject: [CP] new to list Hello! I am new to the list and thought that I would give a quick introduction. I am a native of SW Virginia and have always had a strong interest in the natural world. In addition to being a herp/invertebrate/fish hobbyist for most of my 37 years I have always had an interest in unusual plants as well. My experience with CP's is limited. I made an unsuccessful attempt at growing a few Nepenthes species about five years ago (in one of those plastic indoor greenhouses) and for the past three years have kept several outdoor container gardens with Dionaea and various Sarracenia. I have been reading through some of the archives and am looking forward to expanding my knowledge of these wonderful plants. Take care. Chip Reves ---------------------------------------------------------------- ################### From: bug8babe at yahoo.com (terra resin) Date: Thu Apr 21 12:31:52 2005 Subject: [CP] Genes, color and the VFT Is there a difference genetically between "red dragon" VFTs and the everyday "department store generic variety"? My red dragons lost their color as soon as I moved them away from direct sunlight. The new traps look the same as the old ones, only green. O. (in the buglab) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Thu Apr 21 13:03:32 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: U. gibba The fastest growing utric I have is U. floridana which has fairly large traps. But U. inflata has the biggest I have seen. U. inflata grows underneath near the bottom of hte water so it is not really good for eating 'Skeeters. U. gibba certainly makes a nice mat. Tre ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Thu Apr 21 13:30:43 2005 Subject: [CP] Genes, color and the VFT Of course there are genetic differences. In fact, there are genetic differences between all VFTs reproduced sexually (grown from seed). Some of those plants will be more red or larger than their siblings. Some may react differently to any given environmental condition. Only those plants that are cloned will be genetivally identical. It could be that your "department store generic variety" is the result of TC (that is, cloned and thus identical) or they may be from seed. The 'Red Dragon' or 'Akai Ryu' was selected for its red color and was originally cultured in vitro. Concerning 'Red Dragon', the ICPS Database states: "Growth habit and flower morphology are typical for this species. The leaf petiole, blade and trap exhibit dark maroon to burgundy coloration. Any green coloration has only been noted around the center of the plant in mid-winter. The entire trap, interior and exterior, exhibits dark burgundy coloration throughout the year. Grown under laboratory conditions, where nutrient levels can be comparatively high, the plants still exhibit partial burgundy coloration in the traps and leaf blade." -Bob- terra resin wrote: > Is there a difference genetically between "red dragon" > VFTs and the everyday "department store generic > variety"? My red dragons lost their color as soon as > I moved them away from direct sunlight. The new traps > look the same as the old ones, only green. > > O. (in the buglab) ################### From: Killerplants at aol.com (Killerplants@aol.com) Date: Thu Apr 21 17:58:33 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Lights Chris, Do you mean 40 watt LED or any 40 watt? With fluorescent, 40 watt cool whites seem to work quite well. Cheers, Joe Griffin Lincoln, NE USA PS Chip, welcome! In a message dated 4/21/2005 2:03:32 P.M. Central Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: Message: 2 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <20050420195045.33767.qmail@web54105.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii the key is the spectrum. ahh finally CPers realize that theres more to light than lumens. 40 watters dont cut it folks. Chris Hind Homestead, FL ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Thu Apr 21 19:55:08 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Lights > Chris, > Do you mean 40 watt LED or any 40 watt? With > fluorescent, 40 watt cool > whites seem to work quite well. 'well', if you mean you like watching grass grow, paint dry and glaciers carving canyons. ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Thu Apr 21 21:25:27 2005 Subject: [CP] Not U.erectiflora but U.adpressa!!! Hello to all Recently I sent some pictures to Bob Ziemer of what was supposedly U.erectiflora growing sandy coastal habitats in the town of Porto Seguro, Bahia state, NE Brazil. My friend Andreas Fleischmann pointed out that they didn't look much like U.erectiflora -- and he was right! I'd just assumed it was this species because it's very common on the Brazilian coast. But now that I'm finally sitting down and organizing the herbarium material I realized it's actually U.adpressa. So Bob, please change the name associated with these pics on your website! Take Care, Fernando Rivadavia ################### From: djiezus at lycos.com (Fre rik) Date: Fri Apr 22 05:58:29 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: LED growlights Hi all, A few years ago I worked as development engineer in a company specialised in prototyping. I remember we had to re-design the runway lights for an airport and we used something which was quite new: High Power LEDs They consume around 1 to 5 Watts each and produce _a lot_ of light per square centimeter compared to the classic 5 mm ones. Of course, the price will be higher, but with a lifetime of 50,000 hours... Here's an example: http://www.lasermate.com/LEDModule.html It's not the kind we used (ours was 100% milky plastic) and I guess these will be a tad more expensive. ta, Fred http://terrorchid.proboards27.com/ > Upon looking at your photographs of your Dionaea LED setup, I > am impressed and a bit puzzled. LED lights are very bright and emit > virtually no heat energy. Reading that your flytrap does grow > decently, but lacks the typical coloration, why not move the led > closer to the plant? From the photos it looks like the light is > about 8 inches or so away from the plant. > > Good growing! > > Dustin Truesdell -- _______________________________________________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com ################### From: dstewart at protocolusa.com (Davin Stewart) Date: Fri Apr 22 06:38:02 2005 Subject: [CP] LED Growlights > why not move the led closer to the plant? The emission angle of the light is actually fairly narrow, I'd guess around 20 degrees or so. If I move the light closer to the plant, the beam would narrow down too much and wouldn't cover the whole thing. > the key is the spectrum. Yep, I agree with you there. I've been using this experiment to guide my requirements for LED lights ... http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pagerender.fcgi?artid=396523&pageindex=4 The nice thing about this experiment is that they measured the photosynthetic rate, not just the absorption spectrum. So you can tell which wavelengths produced the most energy for the plant. They found peaks at 437.5 for blue light and 662.5 nm for red light, using a bean plant. Although, this experiment ... http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:8N3oMocr_i4J:www.dsls.usra.edu/meetings /bio2001/pdf/sessions/abstracts/043.pdf+Dynamac+led&hl=en found a peak towards 690nm for red light, I don't place too much faith in it. 690 is just a little too far outside the absorption spectra of chlorophyll for my taste. Handy reference for chlorophyll a and b absorption spectra: http://www.biologie.uni-hamburg.de/b-online/e24/3.htm Anyway, long-story-short, I've been trying to find the brightest, most economical LEDs that emit at 440-450nm and ~660nm ... and haven't really had any luck. Most of the bright blue LEDs that I've found are usually around 470-475nm and the brightest reds are usually either in the 620 or 680nm range. Since the whole idea is to use the perfect spectra to boost efficiency, these guys are just shy of the mark in my book. I bought the Solar Oasis Ruby Grow Light to verify what I thought and to get some real world experience using LEDs. I think that a light like this is very well suited to an office environment. It's almost perfect for growing plants on your desk or in your cubicle, especially lower light requirement plants like those found in most offices. So I think until either LED efficiency improves somewhat or they start manufacturing LEDs closer to the optimum wavelengths for photosynthesis, I'm just going to treat LEDs like specialty bulbs ... nicely suited for niche situations but not necessarily a replacement for HID lighting in large growing situations. > That does look interesting and the VFt really does not look bad. > > Where do you get a LED growlight like that? Thanks! I've been pleased with the growth of the plant too ... if only it had some nice deep red traps, I'd be completely happy. The sad thing is that one of the plants is actually an "all-red" variety that barely has any color on it at all. I was hoping for more color but all of the plants are growing emerald green. I purchased the SolarOasis Ruby Pro-Grow Light here ... http://www.solaroasis.com/grow_products.htm . At $59.95 US + shipping, it's not exactly cheap though and you might want to look into building your own. The bulb has approx 40 LEDs in it with a mixture of red, orange (wtf? why include orange?), blue, and one green LED in the middle to "help balance the colors". I would've preferred that they just stick to the optimum red/blue LEDs for plant growth but am rather pressed for time nowadays and can't afford to take on another project like building my own light. Davin ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Christopher Hind) Date: Fri Apr 22 07:21:51 2005 Subject: [CP] LED Growlights > Thanks! I've been pleased with the growth of the > plant too ... if only it > had some nice deep red traps, I'd be completely > happy. The sad thing is > that one of the plants is actually an "all-red" > variety that barely has any > color on it at all. I was hoping for more color but > all of the plants are > growing emerald green. what that means is that its starved for photosynthesis. the red coloration like varigation is a luxury only plants experiencing high rates of photosynthesis can afford. same signal would be if the leaves were alot bigger. the question is which leds would work best and have the spectrum CLOSEST to the wavelengths plants use. ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Fri Apr 22 20:55:43 2005 Subject: [CP] Wanted: Native Pinguicula caerulea,lutea,and pumila Looking for these US native butterworts. Violet Butterwort Pinguicula caerulea Yellow Butterwort Pinguicula lutea Dwarf Butterwort Pinguicula pumila Wolf ################### From: tvaughan at charter.net (Tim Vaughan) Date: Sat Apr 23 12:36:01 2005 Subject: [CP] One grow light to rule them all I've got an area about 4 feet by 4 feet by 6 feet tall in my living room. I would like to bring some of my larger Nepenthes inside, more to show off to guests than anything else and the living room's kind of dark. If you guys had a choice of one type of light that I could mount above the plants to them healthy, what would you use? The Neps are 3-5 feet tall, all are Highlanders. ################### From: jure.slatner at guest.arnes.si (Jure) Date: Sat Apr 23 12:56:09 2005 Subject: [CP] CP in Slovenia update After a long time I made a list of plants, native in Slovenia in English language. Here it is: http://www2.arnes.si/~sopjslat/mesojedke/CPinSlovenia.htm Jure ################### From: Jim at seahorses.com (Jim Forshey) Date: Sat Apr 23 20:04:42 2005 Subject: [CP] UK CP publications, Hi Awhile back someone told me how I could get the UK CP publications, sorry but I lost the e-mail, could that person please contact me again? Thanks. Does Australia have a CP publication? Thanks for the help. Jim Forshey The Aquatic Book Shop 3050 Countryside Drive Placerville, CA 95667 USA ??'?.??..><((((?>.???'?.??.???'?.?><((((?>?.???'?.?. ,. www.seahorses.com Voice and FAX (530)622-7157 ???'?..>><((((?>?.???'?.?.???'?...?><((((?>?.???'?.?. ,. ################### From: Killerplants at aol.com (Killerplants@aol.com) Date: Sun Apr 24 12:10:09 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 23, Issue 23 Chris, Is this your subtle way of trying to tell me that plants grow much slower under 40 watt bulbs than other types? Cheers, Joe Griffin Lincoln, NE USA In a message dated 4/22/2005 2:09:21 P.M. Central Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: Message: 5 To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Message-ID: <20050422025454.35233.qmail@web54110.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Chris, > Do you mean 40 watt LED or any 40 watt? With > fluorescent, 40 watt cool > whites seem to work quite well. 'well', if you mean you like watching grass grow, paint dry and glaciers carving canyons. ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sun Apr 24 13:26:45 2005 Subject: [CP] Plants to trade I have for trade (-1, -2, -3 or so on means I have that many for trade): Drosera D. tokansis-5 D. capensis 'wide leaf- 7 D. slackii-1 D. capillaris 'Jacksonville, Fl'-2 D. madigascaris 'Botswana'-1 D. dielsiana-1 D. capensis 'Alba'-1 seedling D. filiformis ssp. tracyi 'Buck Pond'-1 Sarracenia S. leuco x. flava - 2 S. purpurea x. purpurea -1 S. ' Judith Hindle' -2 S. 'Dana's Delight' - 4 S. purp. x. rubra -1 Utrics U. floridana (aquatic) -3 U gibba 'Sawgrass Country Club, Fl' (aquatic)-2 U. bisquamata-4 U. longifolia-1 Other Utrics that look closest too (in stolon, these were mis-marked originally): U. firmula U. graminifolia U. tridentata U. geminiloba U. pentadactyl Nepenthes N. 'judith Finn'-1 Pinguicula P. moranensis G-3 P. tina -5 P. rectifolia-2 P. ehlersia -4 P. oblongiloba x. ehlersiae-1 I am looking for anything not on my growlist, any Australian Utrics, location plants Growlist http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin....t=17110 Cp pagehttp://www.geocities.com/Treaqum1/index.html Tre Bond ################### From: ClaraVoiAunt at aol.com (ClaraVoiAunt@aol.com) Date: Sun Apr 24 16:40:05 2005 Subject: [CP] CPs of Slovenia Hey there Jure, Gr8 job in researching and translating these plants. Thanx so much. helped to broaden my Knowledge of CPs worldwide. Thanx again and keep 'em plants growin' Lois In a message dated 4/24/2005 12:04:38 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: Message: 2 To: Message-ID: <20050423195600.YMGS13274.edge1.siol.net@jure> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" After a long time I made a list of plants, native in Slovenia in English language. Here it is: http://www2.arnes.si/~sopjslat/mesojedke/CPinSlovenia.htm Jure ################### From: hansbr at giga.net.tw (Hans Breuer) Date: Mon Apr 25 06:32:42 2005 Subject: [CP] New to the list - howdy from Taiwan! Hi everyone, I'm new to the list and would thus like to introduce myself, as seems to be the merry custom 'round these here parts. I'm originally from Germany, but have lived more than half my adult life in Taipei, Taiwan. I originally came here in 1989 for an advanced Chinese language course as part of my East Asian Studies college program, but two years into my visit I decided to stay for good and try eking out a living as a translator and interpreter. One of the various reasons for this decision was certainly the fascinating flora, fauna and geology (i.e. the purdy views) of Taiwan. While the animals and plants are certainly nowhere as spectacular/bizarre as in, say, North Borneo, Formosa's Central Mountain Range, which covers ca. 8/10^th of the island, is nothing short of breath-taking, and very soon I got into hiking and jungle trekking big time. Still, my interest in nature was limited to merely trampling through it. While I did delight in picking up and ogling the occasional critter, or sniffing a flower here or there, I was mostly contented with strolling about and marveling at the magnificent, forest-covered mountains. Then, last June, a friend of mine tried to spurn my interest in CPs by giving me a N. ventrata (also known among the local CP fiends as "flower market nepenthes" - go figger), which I loved for its "jungly" look, but obviously not enough to research proper cultivation methods, so I quickly managed to kill the little fellow off with the standard weapons: hard (and too little) water, office lighting and dry air. But I did like it, really, and I even thought of getting another one. Then came August 1^st , the day that would change everything. On a family road trip around the Taiwanese east coast, we chanced upon this "rainforest" nursery (http://192.192.42.4/~tbgweb/cgi-bin/topic.cgi?forum=19&topic=613), and here I finally had a massive epiphany (Blues Brothers-sized!). Suddenly I found myself surrounded by 5500 nepenthes, and I SAW THE. LIGHT!!! Granted, 99% of the species there were n. ventratas, but at that time I could hardly tell a Nepenthes from a cannelloni anyway, and it was just such a amazing, jungly kind of place that I wanted a piece of that for myself, right at home. So I bought a mid-sized N. mixta, drove home, put it on the front balcony, and have been seriously obsessed with CPs ever since. And today, a mere seven months later, I'm the proud owner of two large terrariums in my office (for the lowlanders), plenty of highlanders, VFTs and sarras on the balconies, and together with a local greenhouse meister I'm currently designing a 15 x 9 foot shade/greenhouse combo to be cemented onto our garage roof (lots of typhoons around here), all pimped out with automatic monsoon system, 180 square feet of plant racks and 12 hours of sun :-) Guess it was only a matter of time until I found this list, and now I'm looking forward to gleaning tons of knowledge from all y'all CP masters. Cheers and happy growing! Hans "TwoTon" Breuer ################### From: ullsperg at hotmail.com (Chris Ullsperger) Date: Mon Apr 25 17:15:16 2005 Subject: [CP] CP companion plant If you grow any of your CPs in outdoor bogs, I highly recommend planting some Dracunculus vulgaris nearby. One of mine bloomed Saturday and flies were swarming all over it. Of course, many of them found their way into the tangle of D. multifida a few inches from the vulgaris spathe. Awesome. ################### From: srcurrie at currieweb.com (Steven R. Currie) Date: Tue Apr 26 07:18:09 2005 Subject: [CP] Ladybug Question Hi all, Does anyone know what plants eat Ladybugs? I am in Upstate New York in Otsego County (Baseball Hall of Fame country) so we have a couple types of Sundew and Sarracenia Purpurea Purpurea nearby. Thanks in advance, Steven R. Currie http://www.currieweb.com/ ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Tue Apr 26 09:31:38 2005 Subject: [CP] Ladybug Question Why would you want to raise plants for the specific purpose of eating ladybugs? These are some of the most beneficial insects out there, unless you like having your plants covered in aphids! If you're just curious about what cp are capable of catching ladybugs, Sarracenia are quite effective at this (unfortunately, they don't sort out the good from the annoying insects!). Chris > > Hi all, > > Does anyone know what plants eat Ladybugs? I am in Upstate New York in >Otsego County (Baseball Hall of Fame country) so we have a couple types of >Sundew and Sarracenia Purpurea Purpurea nearby. > >Thanks in advance, >Steven R. Currie >http://www.currieweb.com/ > ################### From: srcurrie at currieweb.com (Steven R. Currie) Date: Tue Apr 26 09:55:54 2005 Subject: [CP] Ladybug Question These are pest Ladybugs that bite. They are agressive. I guess they are sometimes sold to eat aphids. These are not the the nice native Ladybug. I am hoping to be able to get samples to take pictures of to show you. Chris Teichreb wrote: > Why would you want to raise plants for the specific purpose of eating > ladybugs? These are some of the most beneficial insects out there, > unless you like having your plants covered in aphids! If you're just > curious about what cp are capable of catching ladybugs, Sarracenia are > quite effective at this (unfortunately, they don't sort out the good > from the annoying insects!). > > Chris > >> >> Hi all, >> >> Does anyone know what plants eat Ladybugs? I am in Upstate New York >> in Otsego County (Baseball Hall of Fame country) so we have a couple >> types of Sundew and Sarracenia Purpurea Purpurea nearby. >> >> Thanks in advance, >> Steven R. Currie >> http://www.currieweb.com/ >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Tue Apr 26 10:17:58 2005 Subject: [CP] Ladybug Question Do you know the scientific (Latin) name of these ladybugs? That's always the problem with common names, what you call a ladybug is obviously different from what I think of for ladybugs! Cheers! Chris > >These are pest Ladybugs that bite. They are agressive. I guess they are >sometimes sold to eat aphids. These are not the the nice native Ladybug. >I am hoping to be able to get samples to take pictures of to show you. > >Chris Teichreb wrote: > >>Why would you want to raise plants for the specific purpose of eating >>ladybugs? These are some of the most beneficial insects out there, unless >>you like having your plants covered in aphids! If you're just curious >>about what cp are capable of catching ladybugs, Sarracenia are quite >>effective at this (unfortunately, they don't sort out the good from the >>annoying insects!). >> >>Chris >> >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Does anyone know what plants eat Ladybugs? I am in Upstate New York in >>>Otsego County (Baseball Hall of Fame country) so we have a couple types >>>of Sundew and Sarracenia Purpurea Purpurea nearby. >>> >>>Thanks in advance, >>>Steven R. Currie >>>http://www.currieweb.com/ >>> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Cp mailing list >>Cp@omnisterra.com >>http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: hpulley at rogers.com (Harry Pulley) Date: Tue Apr 26 10:23:33 2005 Subject: [CP] Ladybug Question I suspect he means Harmonia axyridis: http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/ent/biocontrol/predators/harmonia.html Harry --- Chris Teichreb wrote: > Do you know the scientific (Latin) name of these > ladybugs? That's always > the problem with common names, what you call a > ladybug is obviously > different from what I think of for ladybugs! > > Cheers! > > Chris :-{} Harry C. Pulley, IV mailto:hpulley@rogers.com http://ca.geocities.com/hpulley4@rogers.com Guelph, Ontario, Canada ################### From: srcurrie at currieweb.com (Steven R. Currie) Date: Tue Apr 26 10:25:14 2005 Subject: [CP] Ladybug Question No, not yet. I am trying to get sample bugs (dead, I hope) to take pictures of and identify. Thanks, Steve Chris Teichreb wrote: > Do you know the scientific (Latin) name of these ladybugs? That's > always the problem with common names, what you call a ladybug is > obviously different from what I think of for ladybugs! > > Cheers! > > Chris > >> >> These are pest Ladybugs that bite. They are agressive. I guess >> they are sometimes sold to eat aphids. These are not the the nice >> native Ladybug. I am hoping to be able to get samples to take >> pictures of to show you. >> >> Chris Teichreb wrote: >> >>> Why would you want to raise plants for the specific purpose of >>> eating ladybugs? These are some of the most beneficial insects out >>> there, unless you like having your plants covered in aphids! If >>> you're just curious about what cp are capable of catching ladybugs, >>> Sarracenia are quite effective at this (unfortunately, they don't >>> sort out the good from the annoying insects!). >>> >>> Chris >>> >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Does anyone know what plants eat Ladybugs? I am in Upstate New >>>> York in Otsego County (Baseball Hall of Fame country) so we have a >>>> couple types of Sundew and Sarracenia Purpurea Purpurea nearby. >>>> >>>> Thanks in advance, >>>> Steven R. Currie >>>> http://www.currieweb.com/ >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Cp mailing list >>> Cp@omnisterra.com >>> http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Cp mailing list >> Cp@omnisterra.com >> http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > ################### From: srcurrie at currieweb.com (Steven R. Currie) Date: Tue Apr 26 10:44:52 2005 Subject: [CP] Ladybug Question I checked the site. They seem to be the Orange ones at the top of the right hand picture on the web page previously sited. Harry, I think you are right. They sometimes bite if you pick them up. They seem to winter in houses instead of dying. I know we have had past discussions on the feasability (or lack) of pest conrol with CPs and that it generally is not feasable. I know nature is not that efficient on purpose. BUT, I would still like to experiment with trying to keep them out of the living areas with a biological solution. Besides, if we benefit and the plant benefits so much the better. Steve Harry Pulley wrote: >I suspect he means Harmonia axyridis: >http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/ent/biocontrol/predators/harmonia.html > >Harry > >--- Chris Teichreb wrote: > > >>Do you know the scientific (Latin) name of these >>ladybugs? That's always >>the problem with common names, what you call a >>ladybug is obviously >>different from what I think of for ladybugs! >> >>Cheers! >> >>Chris >> >> > >:-{} Harry C. Pulley, IV > mailto:hpulley@rogers.com > http://ca.geocities.com/hpulley4@rogers.com > Guelph, Ontario, Canada > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Tue Apr 26 12:20:40 2005 Subject: [CP] Ladybug Question Hmm, an introduced species who's biggest effect appears to be the invasion of dwellings of the species that originally introduced them. I like it! Teaches us a lesson about our arrogance to try and control/manipulate nature while not destroying the rest of nature. But I digress, no point in turning this into a flame war. I would definitely recommend Sarracenia, especially S.leucophylla, which is very attractive to a wide variety of insects, including ladybugs. Any of the erect Sarr species would work well though, S.purpurea and S.psittacina are more suited to crawling insects. You might be able to catch some with some of the larger sundews (D.binata complex), but the best bang for your buck would be Sarracenia in my opinion. As you stated, you may be able to keep them under control, but it's likely you'll never eliminate them completely. Good luck! Chris >From: "Steven R. Currie" >Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group >To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group >Subject: Re: [CP] Ladybug Question >Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:46:20 -0400 > > I checked the site. They seem to be the Orange ones at the top of the >right hand picture on the web page previously sited. Harry, I think you >are right. They sometimes bite if you pick them up. They seem to winter in >houses instead of dying. > I know we have had past discussions on the feasability (or lack) of pest >conrol with CPs and that it generally is not feasable. I know nature is >not that efficient on purpose. BUT, I would still like to experiment with >trying to keep them out of the living areas with a biological solution. > Besides, if we benefit and the plant benefits so much the better. > >Steve > > >Harry Pulley wrote: > >>I suspect he means Harmonia axyridis: >>http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/ent/biocontrol/predators/harmonia.html >> >>Harry >> >>--- Chris Teichreb wrote: >> >> >>>Do you know the scientific (Latin) name of these >>>ladybugs? That's always the problem with common names, what you call a >>>ladybug is obviously different from what I think of for ladybugs! >>> >>>Cheers! >>> >>>Chris >>> >>> >> >>:-{} Harry C. Pulley, IV >> mailto:hpulley@rogers.com >> http://ca.geocities.com/hpulley4@rogers.com >> Guelph, Ontario, Canada >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Cp mailing list >>Cp@omnisterra.com >>http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com >> >> >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Tue Apr 26 12:20:51 2005 Subject: [CP] Ladybug Question i would think that predatory insects would be less inclined to be trapped by CP. i have seen predatory insects (assassin bugs, in particular) in my sundews and pitcher plants, but they were probably after the insects that were attracted to the plants and slipped in or got tangled up while hunting. hopping spiders, on the other hand, actually feed on nectar and i've seen VFTs catch them while working their mouth parts up and down the spines. also, i was surprised to hear that earwigs also feed on aphids. they're omnivorous in their eating habits. unfortuanately, they're also destructive to plants AND seem perfectly able to climb out of upright Sarracenia traps, where they often find overnight shelter. not so with a water-filled S. purpurea. heh heh. Gary Kong "Steven R. Currie" wrote: > I checked the site. They seem to be the Orange ones at the top of the >right hand picture on the web page previously sited. Harry, I think you >are right. > They sometimes bite if you pick them up. They seem to winter in houses >instead of dying. > I know we have had past discussions on the feasability (or lack) of >pest conrol with CPs and that it generally is not feasable. I know >nature is not that efficient on purpose. BUT, I would still like to >experiment with trying to keep them out of the living areas with a >biological solution. > Besides, if we benefit and the plant benefits so much the better. > >Steve > > >Harry Pulley wrote: > >>I suspect he means Harmonia axyridis: >>http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/ent/biocontrol/predators/harmonia.html >> >>Harry >> >>--- Chris Teichreb wrote: >> >> >>>Do you know the scientific (Latin) name of these >>>ladybugs? That's always >>>the problem with common names, what you call a >>>ladybug is obviously >>>different from what I think of for ladybugs! >>> >>>Cheers! >>> >>>Chris >>> >>> >> >>:-{} Harry C. Pulley, IV >> mailto:hpulley@rogers.com >> http://ca.geocities.com/hpulley4@rogers.com >> Guelph, Ontario, Canada >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Cp mailing list >>Cp@omnisterra.com >>http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com >> >> >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: stovehouse at earthlink.net (Michael Hunt) Date: Tue Apr 26 12:21:56 2005 Subject: [CP] ladybugs Biting ladybugs !!!!!! :-) This is a ridiculious thread. Mike St. Petersburg Fl ################### From: peteluba at prodigy.net (Glenn Petersen) Date: Tue Apr 26 14:32:20 2005 Subject: [CP] Ladybug Question Steve, I believe they are Asian Lady Beetles. We have them in Michigan too. They overwinter indoors and bite. I live in a very old home, lots of access, so they are all over my house especially in the fall and early spring. They don't seem to be very found of the nectar that Sarracenias produce or sundews either. I grow quite a few outside and they only catch a few. As a side note, my found a baby rattlesnake in the basement. She wasn't to happy! Gotta love old homes. Good luck with the beetles, your best bet is to make peace with them. Glenn ################### From: wildlifegardener at sbcglobal.net (WildLifeGardener) Date: Tue Apr 26 17:19:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Lady Bugs v. Asian Lady Beetles Are you sure you are struggling with actual ladybugs as opposed to the Asian Lady Beetle (Harmonia axyridis)? They look quite similar. The nuisance ladybugs are an exotic species, Harmonia axyridis. I believe they were brought in as a biological control in the early 1900?s to help control some tree pests. http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/Entomology/courses/en507/papers_2001/mannix htm There is a non native aphid out there in abundance, the Aphis nasturtii (Buckthorn Aphid). This exotic aphid is destroying potato crops. It is my understanding, this aphid is now a major portion of the Asian ladybeetle?s diet. The aphid overwinters on buckthorn. It would be my suggestion to get rid of any buckthorn you can get your hands on. Buckthorn is an exotic invasive anyway and is out competing native flora and destroying forest understories. Perhaps I am oversimplifying the situation but If we collectively eliminate the over wintering habitat of the Aphis nasturtii (Buckthorn Aphid), which is Rhamnus (Buckthorn), this aphid species will not enjoy the same survival rate as in subsequent years. This would result in less chemicals used to control the destruction of our potato crops. This would also result in a decreased food source for the Harmonia axyridis (Asian Ladybeetle) which in turn would substantially reduce its numbers thus restoring balance. http://collections.ic.gc.ca/potato/scitech/a_buckthorn.asp Do not feel bad if you have buckthorn in need of eradication as it is the direction we all need to go anyway- http://f00.middlebury.edu/BI140A/Student%20Projects/buckthorn_report.html Just my pea brain thoughts on why we are currently plagued by these non native Asian ladybeetles. My home is pretty well sealed off yet we have one bathroom that they somehow manage to get into and I swear we can hear crunching sounds when we walk in there particularly in the fall. I suck them up with a vacuum. I had a butterfly house that housed everything but butterflies. I found these tan Asian Ladybeetles in that butterfly house by the thousands. I dumped them in the garbage can and was able to go back a few times to "empty" the contents. They seem to congregate in fall and they gravitate to the same places for some reason. Makes them all the easier to get if you know where they are going. Many communities began aggressively eradicating buckthorn in the very recent past. My husband and I plan on eradicating over another thousand on our property and have already removed well over a thousand of both Rhamnus frangula and R. cathartica. I guess time will tell if there is in fact a relationship. Just a few thoughts, Laura >From: "Steven R. Currie" >Subject: [CP] Ladybug Question >To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group >Message-ID: <426E4E03.1060007@currieweb.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >Hi all, >Does anyone know what plants eat Ladybugs? I am in Upstate New York >in Otsego County (Baseball Hall of Fame country) so we have a couple >types of Sundew and Sarracenia Purpurea Purpurea nearby. ################### From: CANDILUBBEN at peoplepc.com (chris lubben) Date: Tue Apr 26 17:23:54 2005 Subject: [CP] Ladybug Question I've heard them refered to as C4 Ladybugs, imported from china I believe. They were brought here to control the soybean aphids which they have done quite well, however they do overwinter indoors in crevices. They think it's like in their native land where they overwinter in cracks in cliffs etc... The thought was good but those suckers bite ! That goes to show how what we thought would be beneficial without the use of pesticides turned and bit us in the butt. The last two falls have been pretty bad when they invade. My wife took a picture frame off the wall and freaked out cause the back had a couple hundred of those guys under it ! This last year I took the window airs out sooner and they didn't get in so bad. Now I've got a few more pitchers to take care of the sun porch, that ought to feed them good before going to sleep for the winter. ################### From: buddhabear at usadatanet.net (Dustin Truesdell) Date: Tue Apr 26 19:35:36 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Companion Plant Hi Chris, I see your theory with D. vulgaris, but how could planting it nearby benefit CP's when it needs a well drained enriched soil? Are you suggesting place the pot nearby CP's or actually planting it next to them? I'm a bit confused. Thanks! ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Tue Apr 26 20:41:04 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: ladybug a mean ladybug? thats a first! jon mungeam, MA, zone 5-6 -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Tue Apr 26 21:24:08 2005 Subject: [CP] Fierce ants build 'torture rack' A fierce species of Amazonian ant has been seen building elaborate traps on which hapless prey are stretched like medieval torture victims, before being slowly hacked to pieces. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4472521.stm am i wrong? Gary Kong -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: jcreef at bellsouth.net (Juan-Carlos) Date: Tue Apr 26 21:48:44 2005 Subject: [CP] sort of off-topic, but with much appeal for CP lovers, Very Cool, Thanks for sharing! -Jc ----- Original Message ----- To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 12:23 AM sure > Fierce ants build 'torture rack' > > A fierce species of Amazonian ant has been seen building elaborate traps > on which hapless prey are stretched like medieval torture victims, before > being slowly hacked to pieces. > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4472521.stm > > am i wrong? > > Gary Kong > > -- > San Francisco, CA > World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Switch to Netscape Internet Service. > As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at > http://isp.netscape.com/register > > Netscape. Just the Net You Need. > > New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer > Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. > Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: pesiolinp at tiscali.it (Giancarlo Carbone) Date: Wed Apr 27 02:57:03 2005 Subject: [CP] sort of off-topic, but with much appeal for CP lovers, Yes, very cool I love ants and their social structure... They are so specialized that i notice that they learn to fly!.... http://www.livescience.com/animalworld/050209_gliding_ants.html see also the video: http://webcast.berkeley.edu:8080/ramgen/events/publicaffairs/glidingants.rm When our carnivorous plants start to walk???...:-D Hoping you find it amazing.... Best regards Giancarlo Carbone Rome, Italy ----- Original Message ----- To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 6:48 AM sure > Very Cool, Thanks for sharing! > > -Jc > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gary Kong" > To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 12:23 AM > Subject: [CP] sort of off-topic, but with much appeal for CP lovers, i'm > sure > > > > Fierce ants build 'torture rack' > > > > A fierce species of Amazonian ant has been seen building elaborate traps > > on which hapless prey are stretched like medieval torture victims, before > > being slowly hacked to pieces. > > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4472521.stm > > > > am i wrong? > > > > Gary Kong > > > > -- > > San Francisco, CA > > World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > > Switch to Netscape Internet Service. > > As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at > > http://isp.netscape.com/register > > > > Netscape. Just the Net You Need. > > > > New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer > > Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. > > Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cp mailing list > > Cp@omnisterra.com > > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: villosa at insightbb.com (PATRICK O'BRIEN) Date: Wed Apr 27 05:46:26 2005 Subject: [CP] Ladybug Question ################### From: marsintenn at hotmail.com (mars schultz) Date: Wed Apr 27 09:21:07 2005 Subject: [CP] Ladybug Question i think you're right on Harmonia axyridi. they're all over eastern tennesse right now. the picture is right, and ii've seen the larval stage and eggs all at work. ithey appeared en masse last summer shortly after a widespread asian wooly aphid problem. at first i thought they were just "harmless cute ladybugs" till some of my co-workers started noticing that they do bite on occasion and secrete nasty yellow stuff which winds up staining your clothes. mars marsintenn@hotmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 8 To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Message-ID: <426E7E6C.6040100@currieweb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I checked the site. They seem to be the Orange ones at the top of the right hand picture on the web page previously sited. Harry, I think you are right. They sometimes bite if you pick them up. They seem to winter in houses instead of dying. I know we have had past discussions on the feasability (or lack) of pest conrol with CPs and that it generally is not feasable. I know nature is not that efficient on purpose. BUT, I would still like to experiment with trying to keep them out of the living areas with a biological solution. Besides, if we benefit and the plant benefits so much the better. Steve Harry Pulley wrote: >I suspect he means Harmonia axyridis: >http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/ent/biocontrol/predators/harmonia.html > >Harry > >--- Chris Teichreb wrote: > > >>Do you know the scientific (Latin) name of these >>ladybugs? That's always >>the problem with common names, what you call a >>ladybug is obviously >>different from what I think of for ladybugs! >> >>Cheers! >> >>Chris >> >> > >:-{} Harry C. Pulley, IV > mailto:hpulley@rogers.com > http://ca.geocities.com/hpulley4@rogers.com > Guelph, Ontario, Canada > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com End of Cp Digest, Vol 23, Issue 27 ********************************** ################### From: hpulley at rogers.com (Harry Pulley) Date: Wed Apr 27 09:33:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Ladybug Question --- mars schultz wrote: ... > asian wooly aphid problem. at first i thought they > were just "harmless cute > ladybugs" till some of my co-workers started > noticing that they do bite on > occasion and secrete nasty yellow stuff which winds > up staining your > clothes. Guess what that yellow stuff is?!? Their blood, sounds a bit like the corrosive blood from the movie Alien! They excrete it through their leg joints as a defense mechanism. Bugs that eat plants, plants that eat bugs and bugs that squirt their own blood in defence... what will nature show us next? Harry :-{} Harry C. Pulley, IV mailto:hpulley@rogers.com http://ca.geocities.com/hpulley4@rogers.com Guelph, Ontario, Canada ################### From: RL7836 at earthlink.net (Ron Lane) Date: Wed Apr 27 11:37:16 2005 Subject: [CP] Drosera filiformis available for postage (USA only) I have found a large number of Drosera filiformis hibernacula in an old homemade bog. If interested, details & directions are posted here: http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin/ib312/ikonboard.cgi?s=8faadf57fa0abacc601e1e23804056b2;act=ST;f=3;t=18067 Please do not respond to the list. All the best, Ron Lane RL7836@earthlink.net Central NJ, USA ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Wed Apr 27 13:02:31 2005 Subject: [CP] Lady bugs It was interesting to read all the comments about lady boys, sorry lady bugs. Lady boys are something slightly different. We had a plague of ladybirds, as we call them, in 1976 or 1977. The native ones were actually biting people, which was unheard of. They had probably run out of prey that year, that's why they were biting people, but who knows. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: jcreef at bellsouth.net (Juan-Carlos) Date: Wed Apr 27 14:17:41 2005 Subject: [CP] sort of off-topic, but with much appeal for CP lovers, Very cool Vid! That little Dendrobates was soo cute! Juan-Carlos Miami, Florida ----- Original Message ----- To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 6:04 AM sure > Yes, very cool > I love ants and their social structure... > They are so specialized that i notice that they learn to fly!.... > http://www.livescience.com/animalworld/050209_gliding_ants.html > see also the video: > http://webcast.berkeley.edu:8080/ramgen/events/publicaffairs/glidingants.rm > When our carnivorous plants start to walk???...:-D > Hoping you find it amazing.... > > Best regards > > Giancarlo Carbone Rome, Italy > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Juan-Carlos" > To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 6:48 AM > Subject: Re: [CP] sort of off-topic, but with much appeal for CP > lovers,i'm > sure > > >> Very Cool, Thanks for sharing! >> >> -Jc >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Gary Kong" >> To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" >> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 12:23 AM >> Subject: [CP] sort of off-topic, but with much appeal for CP lovers, i'm >> sure >> >> >> > Fierce ants build 'torture rack' >> > >> > A fierce species of Amazonian ant has been seen building elaborate >> > traps >> > on which hapless prey are stretched like medieval torture victims, > before >> > being slowly hacked to pieces. >> > >> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4472521.stm >> > >> > am i wrong? >> > >> > Gary Kong >> > >> > -- >> > San Francisco, CA >> > World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm >> > >> > >> > __________________________________________________________________ >> > Switch to Netscape Internet Service. >> > As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at >> > http://isp.netscape.com/register >> > >> > Netscape. Just the Net You Need. >> > >> > New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer >> > Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. >> > Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Cp mailing list >> > Cp@omnisterra.com >> > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Cp mailing list >> Cp@omnisterra.com >> http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Wed Apr 27 14:52:30 2005 Subject: [CP] For Trade: Utricularia olivacea(US) Have Drarf bladderwort Utricularia olivacea for any of these terr. native bladderworts? Reversed Bladderwort Utricularia resupinata Horned Bladderwort Utricularia carnuta Southern Bladderwort Utricularia juncea Wolf ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Wed Apr 27 15:21:02 2005 Subject: [CP] Good conservation news Hey Folks, I encourage everyone to listen to National Public Radio tomorrow morning; if not in the USA then turn your web browser to www.npr.org We all too often hear bad news about conservation---tomorrow I suspect you'll hear some good news. No, it won't involve carnivorous plants, but I think you'll be able to figure out what story I'm talking about. (I am not at liberty to give additional details.) Cheers! Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Director of Conservation Programs The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: MHowlett at hcp4.net (Howlett, Mike) Date: Thu Apr 28 10:24:24 2005 Subject: [CP] S. alata X leucophylla hybrids available Hello all - Those of you that know me know of my passion for doing what can be done to maintain what few 'natural' areas remain, especially the park I work at, in as NATIVE a state as possible. Well I have found a new problem at a private preserve in the Big Thicket of East Texas, and your help is needed. My thanks to Brooks Garcia for showing all of us the proper way to help... There is a small private preserve in Tyler County, Texas called the Watson Pinelands Preserve, only a few short miles from more well-known CP sites. It is owned by Geraldine Watson, a woman in her eighties who has spent her life trying to increase awareness about the importance of preserving the Big Thicket. In fact, many people refer to her as the 'mother of the Big Thicket Association,' an organization that was a major driving force in the creation of the Big Thicket National Preserve. She has even written books on the Big Thicket, and is mentioned by many authors on the same subject. Her twelve-acre site has an astounding array of microhabitats, from bogs full of CPs, orchids and many other rare jewels of East Texas Bogs, to rising areas of ferns and Jack-in-the-pulpits, to uplands with beech trees and native azaleas. It has been her passion - and obsession - to create as close a floral representation of what she remembers the Big Thicket was like as a child. A few years ago, someone in their infinite wisdom (HAH!) took it upon themselves to plant a S. leucophylla in the middle of the stand of hundreds of native S. alata! Since this was before I knew of this gem of a preserve, and since no one else knew of the problem, this leuco was able to hybridize with many of the native alatas, and the problem will take years to run its course. I was up at this preserve yesterday, and was allowed to remove the obvious S. alata x leucophylla hybrids. To that end, I now have quite a few of these, and am offering them to those on the listserve who are interested. But here's the catch... This preserve is privately owned (no government or non-profit funding), and is open to the public seven days a week, 24 hours a day (no fences). She has little to no funds to maintain the place, and the boardwalk across the bog is in a sad state of disrepair. Therefore, I am requesting that you consider making a donation to help rebuild the boardwalk and maintain this awesome display of native plants of the Big Thicket. Since the preserve is privately owned, your donations are NOT tax deductible. But you will have the knowledge that you have done a great deed in the fight to preserve a CP habitat. Please e-mail me directly if interested. Quite frankly, I will not be able to check my e-mails again until Monday, at which time I will select from the replies received. In an effort to raise as much money for the preserve as possible, preferential treatment will be given to those who pledge the greatest amount. I will pay the shipping to help make sure ALL the monies collected benefit the Watson Pinelands Preserve. Should you wish to send a donation but not receive a plant, please make checks payable to Geraldine Watson and mail to the address below in care of me. Perhaps those who live in or visit East Texas would consider volunteering to help at the preserve?? I hope to hear from a great many of you, especially the wealthy ones...LOL! Regards, Mike Howlett Naturalist, Herpetoculturist & Carnivorous Plant Enthusiast Jesse H. Jones Park & Nature Center 20634 Kenswick Drive Humble, TX 77338 281-446-8588 mhowlett@hcp4.net www.hcp4.net/jones ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Thu Apr 28 11:16:27 2005 Subject: [CP] Re:ants i think the torture ants and the glideing ants are both very cool! i love nature! it can be so inresting. thanks to both of you for shareing this stuff. -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Thu Apr 28 13:07:47 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: NPR Wow Barry that was amazing (hoping this is the same topic). If you don't know a team for the Nature Conservancy re-dicsovered the Ivory Bill Woodpecker. This species was thought to be extinct for aroudn half a century but these people found it in Arkansas. I heard it yesterday and then it was on our news to-day. This is remarkable and is going to be published in this weeks edition of Nature (If I remember right). TRe ################### From: Jeremiahsplants at adelphia.net (Jeremiah Harris) Date: Thu Apr 28 13:55:46 2005 Subject: [CP] D. meristocaulis germination Hello, I just had a quick question about D. meristocaulis. I received 4 D. meristocaulis seed and planted them 1-21-05 but I have seen no signs of growth. Does any one else have experience germinating them after 3 months? They have been in a 10 gal terrarium with day time highs at about 85 F to 90 F and lows of about 65 F with humidity at about 75% all the time. I sowed the seeds on a peat, sand mix. Any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks -Jeremiah- ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Thu Apr 28 14:09:11 2005 Subject: [CP] S. alata X leucophylla hybrids available Hey Mike It sounds like this is a cool project. Keep us all posted on what you are able to do. I am sorry I cannot put some ICPS conservation money directly into this---the ICPS has generally been awarding conservation grants to other nonprofits, as opposed to private parties. But good luck on this. It is unfortunate that much of what you have to do on this is clean up the genetic damage that other horticulturists have done! Later! Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Director of Conservation Programs The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 12:16:16 -0500 > From: "Howlett, Mike" > Subject: [CP] S. alata X leucophylla hybrids available > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hello all - > > Those of you that know me know of my passion for doing what > can be done > to maintain what few 'natural' areas remain, especially the > park I work > at, in as NATIVE a state as possible. Well I have found a new > problem at > a private preserve in the Big Thicket of East Texas, and your help is > needed. My thanks to Brooks Garcia for showing all of us the > proper way > to help... > > There is a small private preserve in Tyler County, Texas called the > Watson Pinelands Preserve, only a few short miles from more well-known > CP sites. It is owned by Geraldine Watson, a woman in her eighties who > has spent her life trying to increase awareness about the > importance of > preserving the Big Thicket. In fact, many people refer to her as the > 'mother of the Big Thicket Association,' an organization that was a > major driving force in the creation of the Big Thicket National > Preserve. She has even written books on the Big Thicket, and is > mentioned by many authors on the same subject. > > Her twelve-acre site has an astounding array of > microhabitats, from bogs > full of CPs, orchids and many other rare jewels of East Texas Bogs, to > rising areas of ferns and Jack-in-the-pulpits, to uplands with beech > trees and native azaleas. It has been her passion - and obsession - to > create as close a floral representation of what she remembers the Big > Thicket was like as a child. > > A few years ago, someone in their infinite wisdom (HAH!) took it upon > themselves to plant a S. leucophylla in the middle of the stand of > hundreds of native S. alata! Since this was before I knew of > this gem of > a preserve, and since no one else knew of the problem, this leuco was > able to hybridize with many of the native alatas, and the problem will > take years to run its course. > > I was up at this preserve yesterday, and was allowed to remove the > obvious S. alata x leucophylla hybrids. To that end, I now > have quite a > few of these, and am offering them to those on the listserve who are > interested. But here's the catch... > > This preserve is privately owned (no government or non-profit > funding), > and is open to the public seven days a week, 24 hours a day > (no fences). > She has little to no funds to maintain the place, and the boardwalk > across the bog is in a sad state of disrepair. Therefore, I am > requesting that you consider making a donation to help rebuild the > boardwalk and maintain this awesome display of native plants > of the Big > Thicket. Since the preserve is privately owned, your donations are NOT > tax deductible. But you will have the knowledge that you have done a > great deed in the fight to preserve a CP habitat. > > Please e-mail me directly if interested. Quite frankly, I will not be > able to check my e-mails again until Monday, at which time I > will select > from the replies received. In an effort to raise as much money for the > preserve as possible, preferential treatment will be given to > those who > pledge the greatest amount. I will pay the shipping to help make sure > ALL the monies collected benefit the Watson Pinelands Preserve. > > Should you wish to send a donation but not receive a plant, > please make > checks payable to Geraldine Watson and mail to the address > below in care > of me. > > Perhaps those who live in or visit East Texas would consider > volunteering to help at the preserve?? > > I hope to hear from a great many of you, especially the wealthy > ones...LOL! > > Regards, > > Mike Howlett > Naturalist, Herpetoculturist & Carnivorous Plant Enthusiast > Jesse H. Jones Park & Nature Center > 20634 Kenswick Drive > Humble, TX 77338 > 281-446-8588 > mhowlett@hcp4.net > www.hcp4.net/jones ################### From: h.vonschmeling at chattnaturecenter.com (h.vonschmeling@chattnaturecenter.com) Date: Thu Apr 28 17:13:00 2005 Subject: [CP] lots of cp available I have finished dividing all my plants for this spring and have lots of Sarracenia, Dionaea (8 varieties) and lots of Nepenthes (both tc and cutting grown) available. If you are interested send me an e-mail and I will send you a list. Barry: Is it not exciting about the Ivory Billed Woodpecker having been re-discovered in Arkansas. For all those that do not know, this species was thought to be extinct since 1944 (at least in the US, small population still exists in Cuba). I sure hope that now some of the 4.9 million acres of bottomland hardwood forests still extant in Arkansas will be preserved, prime habitat for this species of bird. Henning von Schmeling ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Fri Apr 29 10:00:42 2005 Subject: [CP] Drosera brevifolias,bigger than its name. I have bunch Drosera brevifolias native to SC,and it has grown as big as Half Silver Dolloar coin. Makes me wonder why they call it Dwarf sundew if they can get as big as Pink sundews,or bigger? I would not call it the smallest native sundew,since it can grow that big. Wolf ################### From: barry_burch at excite.com (Barry Burch) Date: Fri Apr 29 11:55:20 2005 Subject: [CP] Anyone seen this problem with Sarracenia montana? Has anyone heard or seen of this event? My Sarracenia monatana started "dying" from the top downwards. The fist pitcher was cut to hopefully stop the problem. The tops of the pitcher seemed to be pale green and almost translucent. Today, I was alarmed when I saw the same thing happening to a new pitcher. This pitcher had the mouth sealed with a thin, white membrane. I cut the very top of the pitcher off and observed, what appears to be eggs. It looks like a spider is at the bottom of the pitcher. It is hard to tell because my attempts to pull it out only made it retreat deeper into the bottom of the pitcher and I can not be positive about the general ID. The first pitcher, after being cut, closed in on itself and continued with the dying, translucent tissue spreading downwards. When I cut it again today, I noticed the same clump of eggs within that pitcher also. The first pitcher's eggs appear to be dry. The second pitcher's eggs seem to be wet. I plan to take photographs and if this is unique, maybe it can be expanded upon by myself and/or others. Barry _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ################### From: MHowlett at hcp4.net (Howlett, Mike) Date: Fri Apr 29 12:19:23 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Anyone seen this problem with Sarracenia montana? Barry - Thank you for your offer of a donation for the Watson Pinelands Preserve. I'll keep you posted about the availability of the hybrids I have offered everyone. As for your montana, the web 'membrane' over the top of the pitcher probably means that you have an Exyra moth species laying eggs in the pitchers. What you are thinking is eggs are, in fact, most likely the frass (droppings) of the Exyra moth caterpillar, which lives in and feeds on the pitchers of Sarracenia. I would suggest cutting off all the pitchers that have webs over their openings, at least far enough down to make sure the caterpillar doesn't remain in the bottom. I've noticed that when you cut pitchers off to eliminate these pesky little guys, they almost always let go and fall as far as they can go, down into the bottom of the pitcher. Hopefully your montana will be able to come back from the process. The other option - and I suggest this only because you are dealing with a (very wide-mouthed) purpurea - might be to remove the web covering and remove the caterpillars with tweezers if you can find them. They are cannibalistic, so you normally won't find more than one caterpillar per pitcher. Hope this helps. Regards, Mike Howlett Naturalist, Herpetoculturist & Carnivorous Plant Enthusiast Jesse H. Jones Park & Nature Center 20634 Kenswick Drive Humble, TX 77338 281-446-8588 mhowlett@hcp4.net www.hcp4.net/jones -----Original Message----- Message: 6 To: cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <20050429185506.36343299C6@xprdmailfe22.nwk.excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Has anyone heard or seen of this event? My Sarracenia monatana started "dying" from the top downwards. The fist pitcher was cut to hopefully stop the problem. The tops of the pitcher seemed to be pale green and almost translucent. Today, I was alarmed when I saw the same thing happening to a new pitcher. This pitcher had the mouth sealed with a thin, white membrane. I cut the very top of the pitcher off and observed, what appears to be eggs. It looks like a spider is at the bottom of the pitcher. It is hard to tell because my attempts to pull it out only made it retreat deeper into the bottom of the pitcher and I can not be positive about the general ID. The first pitcher, after being cut, closed in on itself and continued with the dying, translucent tissue spreading downwards. When I cut it again today, I noticed the same clump of eggs within that pitcher also. The first pitcher's eggs appear to be dry. The second pitcher's eggs seem to be wet. I plan to take photographs and if this is unique, maybe it can be expanded upon by myself and/or others. Barry ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Fri Apr 29 12:44:54 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Purp montana Well If new growth has not started I would suggest burning the plant. And by that I mean packing a few pieces of newpaper around it and using a candle to set fire to it. I would suggest you repot it first n a clay pot or if it's in a bog, as long as it is not close to a side or plastic burning should be fine. Ahh fire solves all the insect problems. Tre Bond ################### From: jmanion at mainegardens.org (John @ CMBG) Date: Fri Apr 29 13:37:36 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 23, Issue 30 Greetings All, I'm the Director of Education at Coastal Maine Botanical Gardens in Boothbay, Maine (USDA zone 5B). I have an intense interest in (but relatively little knowledge about) carnivorous plants and their habitats. I am thrilled that our Executive Director had granted me permission to install a bog planting on our grounds. We are looking at a couple of locations on our 128 acres and think we have some areas with good potential. The area I favor appears to be bog-like in nature. It has lots of sphagnum moss growing in it and is very wet. My concern is that perhaps in spring and wet weather, there may be too much water flowing through it...making it more minerotrophic than ombrotrophic. My hope is to include in the plan, several hardy carnivorous plans (and perhaps some tender perennials and/or annuals) as well as other typical bog vegetation. I have looked at the list of plants growing at Orono Bog to get ideas. I would also like to include some of the rare/threatened/endangered plants of Maine and provide good interpretation to go along with them. This is a perfect example of an overlap of my own passion and what I believe is our responsibility as a public garden. Questions: I'd enjoy finding someone in our area (mid-coastal Maine) whom might be willing to take a look at our proposed site. I'd appreciate knowing about any sources that might consider donating appropriate plants and /or seeds to a public garden. (I just joined the ICPS and ordered some seed.) It would be nice to have someone with whom I might consult on ideas or advice...perhaps this list is best venue for that. Many thanks! John T. Manion Director of Education Coastal Maine Botanical Gardens Boothbay, ME 04537 USA Phone (2070 633-4333 www.mainegardens.org -----Original Message----- Of Cp-request@omnisterra.com Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 3:04 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Send Cp mailing list submissions to Cp@omnisterra.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to Cp-request@omnisterra.com You can reach the person managing the list at Cp-owner@omnisterra.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Cp digest..." CP Mailing list Today's Topics: 1. RE: NPR (Tre Bond) 2. D. meristocaulis germination (Jeremiah Harris) 3. S. alata X leucophylla hybrids available (Barry Rice) 4. lots of cp available (h.vonschmeling@chattnaturecenter.com) 5. Drosera brevifolias,bigger than its name. (Harry Q) 6. Anyone seen this problem with Sarracenia montana? (Barry Burch) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <20050428200736.82754.qmail@web53310.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Wow Barry that was amazing (hoping this is the same topic). If you don't know a team for the Nature Conservancy re-dicsovered the Ivory Bill Woodpecker. This species was thought to be extinct for aroudn half a century but these people found it in Arkansas. I heard it yesterday and then it was on our news to-day. This is remarkable and is going to be published in this weeks edition of Nature (If I remember right). TRe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 2 To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" Message-ID: <009c01c54c33$ecb7aab0$3300000a@Levi> Hello, I just had a quick question about D. meristocaulis. I received 4 D. meristocaulis seed and planted them 1-21-05 but I have seen no signs of growth. Does any one else have experience germinating them after 3 months? They have been in a 10 gal terrarium with day time highs at about 85 F to 90 F and lows of about 65 F with humidity at about 75% all the time. I sowed the seeds on a peat, sand mix. Any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks -Jeremiah- ------------------------------ Message: 3 To: Cc: MHowlett@hcp4.net Message-ID: <200504282108.j3SL8nA0011690@bern.ucdavis.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey Mike It sounds like this is a cool project. Keep us all posted on what you are able to do. I am sorry I cannot put some ICPS conservation money directly into this---the ICPS has generally been awarding conservation grants to other nonprofits, as opposed to private parties. But good luck on this. It is unfortunate that much of what you have to do on this is clean up the genetic damage that other horticulturists have done! Later! Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Director of Conservation Programs The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 12:16:16 -0500 > From: "Howlett, Mike" > Subject: [CP] S. alata X leucophylla hybrids available > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hello all - > > Those of you that know me know of my passion for doing what > can be done > to maintain what few 'natural' areas remain, especially the > park I work > at, in as NATIVE a state as possible. Well I have found a new > problem at > a private preserve in the Big Thicket of East Texas, and your help is > needed. My thanks to Brooks Garcia for showing all of us the > proper way > to help... > > There is a small private preserve in Tyler County, Texas called the > Watson Pinelands Preserve, only a few short miles from more well-known > CP sites. It is owned by Geraldine Watson, a woman in her eighties who > has spent her life trying to increase awareness about the > importance of > preserving the Big Thicket. In fact, many people refer to her as the > 'mother of the Big Thicket Association,' an organization that was a > major driving force in the creation of the Big Thicket National > Preserve. She has even written books on the Big Thicket, and is > mentioned by many authors on the same subject. > > Her twelve-acre site has an astounding array of > microhabitats, from bogs > full of CPs, orchids and many other rare jewels of East Texas Bogs, to > rising areas of ferns and Jack-in-the-pulpits, to uplands with beech > trees and native azaleas. It has been her passion - and obsession - to > create as close a floral representation of what she remembers the Big > Thicket was like as a child. > > A few years ago, someone in their infinite wisdom (HAH!) took it upon > themselves to plant a S. leucophylla in the middle of the stand of > hundreds of native S. alata! Since this was before I knew of > this gem of > a preserve, and since no one else knew of the problem, this leuco was > able to hybridize with many of the native alatas, and the problem will > take years to run its course. > > I was up at this preserve yesterday, and was allowed to remove the > obvious S. alata x leucophylla hybrids. To that end, I now > have quite a > few of these, and am offering them to those on the listserve who are > interested. But here's the catch... > > This preserve is privately owned (no government or non-profit > funding), > and is open to the public seven days a week, 24 hours a day > (no fences). > She has little to no funds to maintain the place, and the boardwalk > across the bog is in a sad state of disrepair. Therefore, I am > requesting that you consider making a donation to help rebuild the > boardwalk and maintain this awesome display of native plants > of the Big > Thicket. Since the preserve is privately owned, your donations are NOT > tax deductible. But you will have the knowledge that you have done a > great deed in the fight to preserve a CP habitat. > > Please e-mail me directly if interested. Quite frankly, I will not be > able to check my e-mails again until Monday, at which time I > will select > from the replies received. In an effort to raise as much money for the > preserve as possible, preferential treatment will be given to > those who > pledge the greatest amount. I will pay the shipping to help make sure > ALL the monies collected benefit the Watson Pinelands Preserve. > > Should you wish to send a donation but not receive a plant, > please make > checks payable to Geraldine Watson and mail to the address > below in care > of me. > > Perhaps those who live in or visit East Texas would consider > volunteering to help at the preserve?? > > I hope to hear from a great many of you, especially the wealthy > ones...LOL! > > Regards, > > Mike Howlett > Naturalist, Herpetoculturist & Carnivorous Plant Enthusiast > Jesse H. Jones Park & Nature Center > 20634 Kenswick Drive > Humble, TX 77338 > 281-446-8588 > mhowlett@hcp4.net > www.hcp4.net/jones ------------------------------ Message: 4 To: Message-ID: <200504290012.j3T0Cm23000358@mail3.atl.registeredsite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO8859-1 I have finished dividing all my plants for this spring and have lots of Sarracenia, Dionaea (8 varieties) and lots of Nepenthes (both tc and cutting grown) available. If you are interested send me an e-mail and I will send you a list. Barry: Is it not exciting about the Ivory Billed Woodpecker having been re-discovered in Arkansas. For all those that do not know, this species was thought to be extinct since 1944 (at least in the US, small population still exists in Cuba). I sure hope that now some of the 4.9 million acres of bottomland hardwood forests still extant in Arkansas will be preserved, prime habitat for this species of bird. Henning von Schmeling ------------------------------ Message: 5 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I have bunch Drosera brevifolias native to SC,and it has grown as big as Half Silver Dolloar coin. Makes me wonder why they call it Dwarf sundew if they can get as big as Pink sundews,or bigger? I would not call it the smallest native sundew,since it can grow that big. Wolf ------------------------------ Message: 6 To: cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <20050429185506.36343299C6@xprdmailfe22.nwk.excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Has anyone heard or seen of this event? My Sarracenia monatana started "dying" from the top downwards. The fist pitcher was cut to hopefully stop the problem. The tops of the pitcher seemed to be pale green and almost translucent. Today, I was alarmed when I saw the same thing happening to a new pitcher. This pitcher had the mouth sealed with a thin, white membrane. I cut the very top of the pitcher off and observed, what appears to be eggs. It looks like a spider is at the bottom of the pitcher. It is hard to tell because my attempts to pull it out only made it retreat deeper into the bottom of the pitcher and I can not be positive about the general ID. The first pitcher, after being cut, closed in on itself and continued with the dying, translucent tissue spreading downwards. When I cut it again today, I noticed the same clump of eggs within that pitcher also. The first pitcher's eggs appear to be dry. The second pitcher's eggs seem to be wet. I plan to take photographs and if this is unique, maybe it can be expanded upon by myself and/or others. Barry _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com End of Cp Digest, Vol 23, Issue 30 ********************************** ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu) Date: Fri Apr 29 15:01:26 2005 Subject: [CP] Drosera brevifolias,bigger than its name. Dear Wolf, I think this is because most of the rosettes are very small and do rarely reach those sizes growing in their native habitats. Most of the _D. brevifolia_ I grow are the same size as _D. capillaris_ from the east coast, some forms of _D. capillaris_ are larger. My plants in cultivation are always larger than their wild counter parts. I think this is because _D. capillaris can take the heat of summer better than _D. brevifolia_ and they are exposed to less heat in my growing area than they would have to deal with outside in the wild. Dave Evans "When I look into your eyes an' saw how much you cried, I had a revelation. The pain wouldn't pass, the scars they would last, Into God's creation. Blessed secrets holding me... Then we all closed our eyes, an' laid down and sighed: Live young die free!" Overkill -----Original Message----- Of Harry Q Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 1:01 PM I have bunch Drosera brevifolias native to SC,and it has grown as big as Half Silver Dolloar coin. Makes me wonder why they call it Dwarf sundew if they can get as big as Pink sundews,or bigger? I would not call it the smallest native sundew,since it can grow that big. Wolf ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Fri Apr 29 15:15:25 2005 Subject: [CP] Lady bugs All this talk of Ladybug bites is certainly a tempest in a teapot. I mean, really, how bad can it be? Unless you're allergic to them, it should be a minor nuisance, at best. I'm getting bit by lacewing larva all the time, and it stings a bit, but you'd never catch me complaining about it. Of course, it is interesting that apparently we must taste similar to aphids, since their predators can't seem to tell the difference even with such a large size differential. TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: jmanion at mainegardens.org (jmanion@mainegardens.org) Date: Fri Apr 29 18:13:13 2005 Subject: [CP] Bogs in Maine I'm interested in visiting some of the many bogs in Maine. Any suggestions which ones to go to, or does anyone want to go? Cheers, John John T. Manion, Director of Education Coastal Maine Botanical Gardens PO Box 234, Boothbay, ME 04537 Phone (207) 633-4333 Fax (207) 633-2366 jmanion@mainegardens.org http://www.mainegardens.org/ ################### From: jmanion at mainegardens.org (jmanion@mainegardens.org) Date: Fri Apr 29 18:32:57 2005 Subject: [CP] Plants/Advice sought for zone 5B bog Let me try this again...sorry, I'm new to the list and still trying to maneuver my way around. Greetings All, I'm the Director of Education at Coastal Maine Botanical Gardens in Boothbay, Maine (USDA zone 5B). I have an intense interest in (but relatively little knowledge about) carnivorous plants and their habitats. I am thrilled that our Executive Director had granted me permission to install a bog planting on our grounds. We are looking at a couple of locations on our 128 acres and think we have some areas with good potential. The area I favor appears to be bog-like in nature. It has lots of sphagnum moss growing in it and is very wet. My concern is that perhaps in spring and wet weather, there may be too much water flowing through it...making it more minerotrophic than ombrotrophic. My hope is to include in the plan, several hardy carnivorous plans (and perhaps some tender perennials and/or annuals) as well as other typical bog vegetation. I have looked at the list of plants growing at Orono Bog to get ideas. I would also like to include some of the rare/threatened/endangered plants of Maine and provide good interpretation to go along with them. This is a perfect example of an overlap of my own passion and what I believe is our responsibility as a public garden. Questions: I'd enjoy finding someone in our area (mid-coastal Maine) whom might be willing to take a look at our proposed site. I'd appreciate knowing about any sources that might consider donating appropriate plants and /or seeds to a public garden. (I just joined the ICPS and ordered some seed.) It would be nice to have someone with whom I might consult on ideas or advice...perhaps this list is best venue for that. Many thanks! John T. Manion, Director of Education Coastal Maine Botanical Gardens PO Box 234, Boothbay, ME 04537 Phone (207) 633-4333 Fax (207) 633-2366 jmanion@mainegardens.org http://www.mainegardens.org/ ################### From: stovehouse at earthlink.net (Michael Hunt) Date: Sat Apr 30 13:28:25 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 23, Issue 31 Message: 2 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <20050429194443.12606.qmail@web53306.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Well If new growth has not started I would suggest burning the plant. And by that I mean packing a few pieces of newpaper around it and using a candle to set fire to it. I would suggest you repot it first n a clay pot or if it's in a bog, as long as it is not close to a side or plastic burning should be fine. Ahh fire solves all the insect problems. Tre Bond >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tre it seems I am picking on you, but that idea is asinine. Stop dorking around. Barry you know your Sarracenia pretty good and I know from habitat you have seen you know the Exyra pretty good as it is as common as snow to Maine in Decemeber. However as Mike said it could be exyra. I am inclined to also think of the spider mite. In a low humidity setting these things get carried away on Sarracenia. The webbing is a good sign of spider mite at the top, the freshest and easiest flesh of the plant to penetrate. As the plant leaves are attacked the lower portion is easy to move into. The skeleton look of the plant is common to many "suckers" but extreme with exyra and....spider mite. A gray color to the cells with are sucked dry and skeleton are thrips more than likely but no webbing. A yellow sticky card placed about a foot above the plant can trap many insects. For thrips you need a blue sticky. Thrips are a huge problem with Sarracenia when the temperatures are warm and humidity low such as in the spring or fall. They don't care much for being in the adult stage during hot humid weather. Spider mite............ you need a miticide some are biological friendly. One I recommend is Talstar (name brand) in generic form Bifen. Pretty effective. What happened to my font...its @#$! up!!!!! Now I will mention the evil caterpillars such as the exyra, or worse the root borer. Talstar as a drench for soil borne pest, a foliar for topical foliage control. The best effective pesticide which again is very friendly to our environment and doesn't harm beneficial insects like the biting ladybugs is Conserve SE. As well both of these are not harmful after application is set for water life but upon application they are. So if a bird eats a wiggler it won't be dead from the pesticide. When you combine these 2 pesticides you have powerful knock down power for insects. They are systemic and outside give protection for about 3 weeks or weaken until rain hits. While I use BT in rotation with Conserve for worms such as sphinx moths which love Sarracenia, BT isn't a systemic and though it kills all caterpillars upon application that is it. I believe the Talstar (Bifen) will take care of your problem as it is a excellent broad spectrum pesticide (easy on the earth) if the problem isn't taken care of with Talstar (doubtful) I wouldn't hesitate to use the stinky orthene powder with a distilled or RO water spreader. The montana is a valuable plant. ..............................Or simply cut the leaves down to the crown. See if this works, that is simple. (Damn tiny font) If the rhizome is in good shape this will work. The myth that a rosette Sarracenia can't be cut to the crown is just that a myth. I cut them back all the time because they stink to high heavy worse than my feet. My feet smell like rotted flesh of a horse in the desert sun after 3 weeks, anyone is welcome to smell to verify I tell no lies. These damn pitchers of the purpurea attract the worst large slugs , roaches, lizards, and a rotted mess you will have. So they must be cut off . If the montana dies, I will cut you a piece of my ABG plant. `cause your my Buddy Spider Mites , Spider mites ???? Lat8r Mike St. Petersburg Florida ################### From: writserv at nbnet.nb.ca (Rand Nicholson) Date: Sat Apr 30 13:42:58 2005 Subject: [CP] Lady bugs As far as that goes, even aphids will poke a hole in you, much to my surprise as I recall. I think most bugs that can bite, will bite a human under the right (or wrong) circumstances. Never knew that lacewing larva would bite, but it does not surprise me. I had a dragonfly snatch a blackfly (the big flesh-tearing kind, not the little no-see-ums) off my shoulder and they both left a bead of blood. I figure the dragonfly was welcome to it. Rand in the Great White North where most anything can bite. >All this talk of Ladybug bites is certainly a tempest in a teapot. I >mean, really, how bad can it be? Unless you're allergic to them, it >should be a minor nuisance, at best. I'm getting bit by lacewing larva >all the time, and it stings a bit, but you'd never catch me complaining >about it. Of course, it is interesting that apparently we must taste >similar to aphids, since their predators can't seem to tell the >difference even with such a large size differential. > > >TTFN > >Hamir the Hermit ################### From: sazji at yahoo.com (Bob Beer) Date: Sun May 1 01:48:37 2005 Subject: [CP] S. montana, caterpillars, B.t. treatment? Has anyone tried Bacillus thuringensis on Exyra caterpillars? It is very effective on other caterpillars, it only gets caterpillars (make sure you get the strain for caterpillars). As the application would be very local to say the least, it seems that it would be an ideal situation in which to use it. And much less drastic than cutting off pitchers or burning plants. bob __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sun May 1 06:55:12 2005 Subject: [CP] Re Maine and D. brev. Hey Everyone, For the Maine BG I doubt that the area would be too wet for Carnivorous Plants. I would suggest Sarracenia purpurea ssp. purpurea, Drosera rotundifolia, Pinguicula grandifolia, Pinguicula villosa, Pinguicula vulgaris to start with. Maybe Drosera intermedia (from northern location, and Drosera filiformis ssp filiformis northern location). I am sure someone on the listserv has some of these plants that they would be willing to donate. If my S. purpurea heterophylla germinates in a couple years I will gladly send some. I have found both S. purpurea and D. rotundifolia growing in standing water (actually D. rotundifolia out on a crack in a rock in the middle of a lake once). For the D. brevifolia I have found several locations ha the plants do get very big. I think it is just location more then anything else. The happier they are the bigger they will be. Tre Bond ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Sun May 1 13:45:47 2005 Subject: [CP] US Trade: Utricularia olivacea Have Dwarf Bladderwort Utricularia olivacea for trade for any of these US native terr. bladderworts. Reversed Bladderwort Utricularia resupinata Horned Bladderwort Utricularia carnuta Southern Bladderwort Utricularia juncea Wolf ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Sun May 1 14:59:32 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: maine bg hello, the guy who listed this topic (im sorry i dident catch your name) did you get my e-mail? i would like to help anyway i can, i live near eunuff to maine to help. jonathan mungeam, marlboror, MA 01752 -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sun May 1 15:38:04 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: burning Well Burning is okay as long as spring growth has not started. It has worked for me when I had moth problems with my S. leucophylla. The plant came back perfectly fine. And no moths anymore because they don't survive a holocaust well. Tre ################### From: marsintenn at hotmail.com (mars schultz) Date: Sun May 1 23:25:57 2005 Subject: [Cp] Botrytis suggestions i came home from work today to discover that the lights on my terrarium never went on. interestingly enough, there are bits of what i'm pretty sure is Botrytis on three plants and yet there was nothing on any of them yesterday. was amazed to see mold form that quickly. at any rate, does anyone have any suggestions for quickly nipping this in the bud? any preferred anti-fungals or would just increasing the light and circulation stop it before it spreads? the spots are really tiny on the two sundews. however, there is a larger section of mold on the bladderwort (i kinda think that this mold is not botrytis, but i'm not sure unless it's just damp-off). i'm just a little worried as my collection is still small and i would hate to lose any plants at all. thanks, mars marsintenn@hotmail.com "Every man and every woman is a star." -- AL. I. 3 ################### From: n.bellii at netzero.net (n.bellii@netzero.net) Date: Mon May 2 04:57:23 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: S. montana, caterpillars, B.t. treatment? I have used a liquid form Bacillus thuringensis, for caterpillars, on Sarracenia for Exyra, with excellent results. Just make sure to open and coat the inside of any pitchers that might protect the larva from contact, and drench the rhizomes. Exyra larva don't eat through all of the leaf tissue, just the inside layers. Take care, Steven Stewart Florida, USA Has anyone tried Bacillus thuringensis on Exyra caterpillars? It is very effective on other caterpillars, it only gets caterpillars (make sure you get the strain for caterpillars). As the application would be very local to say the least, it seems that it would be an ideal situation in which to use it. And much less drastic than cutting off pitchers or burning plants. bob ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Mon May 2 12:40:18 2005 Subject: [CP] Looking for All Green Venus Flytrap Looking for all green,not Green Dragon. Wolf ################### From: christoph_belanger2001 at yahoo.com (Christoph Belanger) Date: Mon May 2 13:31:42 2005 Subject: [CP] Sarracenias in Jacksonville area We may be vacationing in the Jacksonville area this summer... What Sarracenia species can be found there? According to Schnell's book it appears that only S. minor can be found (but okee is not too far away...). If this is true, then I may have to convice my wife that we need to go elsewhere. Thanks, Christoph ################### From: ccp at vaxxine.com (ccp@vaxxine.com) Date: Mon May 2 13:50:54 2005 Subject: [CP] Sarracenias in Jacksonville area Christoph, Actually you're right not much else there. Psits and flava's are not too far away from there however. The okee to is indeed close, you can see psit flava and minor and the big minors there too. However, if you want a good bang for you buck, try the florida gulf coast. Lots of stuff within a days drive!!!! Best Carl > We may be vacationing in the Jacksonville area this > summer... What Sarracenia species can be found there? > According to Schnell's book it appears that only S. > minor can be found (but okee is not too far away...). > > > If this is true, then I may have to convice my wife > that we need to go elsewhere. > > Thanks, > Christoph > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ------[ This message was sent using Vaxxine Webmail ]------ www.vaxxine.com - Niagara's Premier Internet Service Provider ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Mon May 2 15:44:39 2005 Subject: [CP] Old bounces (self referential) Just received four emails of this nature all the same (with a few modifications for different headers). I think they were all notes sent over a month ago! Guess the moderator is just getting around to clearing out old business! Your request to the Cp mailing list Posting of your message titled "Re: [CP] Sarracenia cultivar 'Leah Wilkerson'" has been rejected by the list moderator. The moderator gave the following reason for rejecting your request: "No reason given" Any questions or comments should be directed to the list administrator at: _Cp-owner@omnisterra.com_ (mailto:Cp-owner@omnisterra.com) TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Mon May 2 16:21:16 2005 Subject: [CP] Old bounces (self referential) I got some similar rejects, with an explanation of "No reason given" also. I had sent the messahes so long ago that I had a hard time even remembering sending them. -Bob- HmrTheHrmt@aol.com wrote: > Just received four emails of this nature all the same (with a few > modifications for different headers). I think they were all notes > sent over a month ago! Guess the moderator is just getting around to > clearing out old business! > > > > > Your request to the Cp mailing list > > Posting of your message titled "Re: [CP] Sarracenia cultivar 'Leah > Wilkerson'" > > has been rejected by the list moderator. The moderator gave the > following reason for rejecting your request: > > "No reason given" > > Any questions or comments should be directed to the list administrator > at: > > _Cp-owner@omnisterra.com_ (mailto:Cp-owner@omnisterra.com) > > > > > > > > > TTFN > > > > Hamir the Hermit ################### From: stovehouse at earthlink.net (Michael Hunt) Date: Mon May 2 20:32:36 2005 Subject: [CP] Boytris & fungal comments Message: 4 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed i came home from work today to discover that the lights on my terrarium never went on. interestingly enough, there are bits of what i'm pretty sure is Botrytis on three plants and yet there was nothing on any of them yesterday. was amazed to see mold form that quickly. at any rate, does anyone have any suggestions for quickly nipping this in the bud? any preferred anti-fungals or would just increasing the light and circulation stop it before it spreads? the spots are really tiny on the two sundews. however, there is a larger section of mold on the bladderwort (i kinda think that this mold is not botrytis, but i'm not sure unless it's just damp-off). i'm just a little worried as my collection is still small and i would hate to lose any plants at all. thanks, mars marsintenn@hotmail.com Sounds like you don't have enough air circulation which is a needed requirement for giving the plants a better chance of escaping fungal attacks. A enclosed terrarium can be a difficult place to allow enough ventilation but some form of opening should be made to allow air transfer and gentle circulation. Not sure by what you mean by bits of mold on the leaves. Mold often forms in a tight, mild to warm moist stagnant environment. Mold isn't the type of fungal infection that botrytis represents, and I would avoid using a fungicide on this because fungicides can be a delicate project to apply correctly. Fuzzy mold will likely be a problem in growing cp from time to time. Please describe what you are seeing better. It is very difficult to ID a fungal disease such as botrytis by visual observation because so many fungal disease look alike and it takes a keen eye to make a educated guess which are often in correct. Even the skilled highly educated plant pathologist can make visual mistakes prior to making up a lab exam. I have had plants that appeared to have Rhizoctonia which is a common and deadly fungal disease, it is a stem canker or black rot. Upon lab test the disease turned out to be a more serious root fungal disease. The red spots on Sarracenia leaves can be a variety of common fungal disease, one is botrytis, but stem cankers and root disease is far more common both in the wild and in container. These common fungal diseases must be treated with fungicides that commonly aren't available to the home gardener. The older ones that are and heavily recommended in the sparse information on cp's most common problems due to the nature of how the plants grow is in general very out dated and incorrect. Banrot or Cleary's WP3336 is the common answer. You see this is a older fungicide and like human medicine to fight disease plant fungicides must be rotated or the pest builds resistance. The chemical in Cleary's, Banrot, & formerly Benolate is about worthless in the North America, Australia, & Europe. Heavily over used in both horticultural and farm agricultural use without rotation has made this good though older fungicide worthless for very long as fungal disease has figured it old and has evolved to its constant use. Use was, is very heavy because it is cheaper to purchase in both small and larger quantity for the home gardener or the trade horticultural operation. Had this chemical, which is called thiophanate ethyl found is trade names such as Topsin, Cleary's 3336, Cercobin & OHP been rotated with other fungicides alone or in mixtures it would still be a long term vital part of a regular spray program for the commercial grower and a good home product. Valent the producer of Cleary's had the patent but its long expired and thus can be bought as a generic that is why I mention the chemical to look for in various products. If thiophanate ethyl is the chemical then you have Cleary's 3336. Valent has improved and changed the makeup of the product & as far as I know its not available for home use. I no longer use Valent fungicides so I can't comment on the newer products. A old stand-by is disappearing from the market, a excellent product for short term non systemic protection of plants, including all cp. The WP (wettable powder) Captan. Captan doesn't build resistance even though its a old heavily used fungicide for decades until its recent removal due to health concerns. Of course this started in CA which by the way has warning labels on my N-scale hobby train cars warning you that the product of a model train car could be dangerous if swallowed or bitten , so I stopped biting my model train cars. Rather Captan is dangerous or not remains to be seen. It was used on all sort of farmers orchards for years and applied to fruits that needed fungal protection against rot. The reason Captan doesn't build resistance by the disease to constant use is simple. Cleary's chemical is a systemic and absorbed into the plants system for a few weeks or longer protection regardless of the weather so it offers long term treatment or preventative protection. Captan isn't a systemic but rather a topical. It is like calamine lotion for a fungus or poison ivy on our skin. Drying it out. By drying out the wound of the fungal legion on the plant you not only kill the fungus but the spores which are the pain in the **** as to how fungus spreads so quickly and can kill your entire collection quickly. Spores are incredible for spreading fungal disease. Lifting the top of a terrarium to see your plants or a drop of water splashing the leaves catapults thousands of spores looking for a nice cozy home in a fat environment to meet their needs. Captan is a fungicide that is mixed with water in powder form and is still available in many states from left over production. Some states have pulled it. So far Florida has not for the trade operator and some better independent retail garden centers may have retail consumer amounts available. I don't use Captan that much now, but it is still my old stand by for damping off on seedlings and though weekly applications are needed it is very effective if mixed at the correct ratio. If you properly mix a product like Cleary's with Captan you get a better broad band spectrum of disease control, however I warn you that some products cannot be mixed an it is vital to read the contents of every product you use. There are more modern and environmental friendly fungicides available that basically are bacteria to fight disease. Not all can be used for cp. But a excellent one is called Medallion, by far the most superior results I have had against fungal outbreaks have been with this product and mixed with partner Sub-due Maxx it is a powerful broad band control or preventative. You have foliar and root protection. Remember not all fungicides can control all types of disease, even if its listed. Our plants are wet and root or crown disease's is the most common killers of cp though there is nothing written about it. Isn't this odd? The most common cause of death to plants that grow in moist, to wet temperate, sub-tropical, & tropical plants environments and in high humidity no less have almost nothing written about fungal disease or really any problematic pest. Most root disease, crown, or rhizome requires a special fungicide listed for such disease's. For fighting a root disease a foliar application does no good. Its a waste of time. You must drench the pot. This is tricky as you don't want to over apply. When applying any type of pesticide more isn't better. A drench means you flood the pot not the leaves. Any plant showing fungal disease should be moved at once from your collection of healthy plants. If you see a stem canker, such as at the base of a Sarracenia leaf move the plant. If it continues to slide with quick withering leaves throw it out unless its rare, the other option is to treat the pot with a drench then a day later re-pot it after cutting the dead part of the rhizome away and allowing some time for the wound or cut rhizome on the good section to harden off. A fresh clean pot should be used. Dirty pots will not solve anything but more health problems and disease. The stem canker appears on the leaves but its a root disease and by the time you see it the plant is in serious to lethal trouble. Even when you look at the roots they will appear in good shape and vigorous. That's the nature of the beast while the rhizome rots and the finer hair roots are rotted the major visible roots appear good, but they are not. They will rot from the top down. This happens in the wild not just in our pots, that's one reason that few cp make it to maturity in good habitat. Don't include some Drosera in this group The Dionaea is another one that gets root disease and it shows up as black circular spots on the leaf into the trap. It is common and often its cylindrocladium a severe root disease that is nearly impossible to treat. Once the air temperature hits 80 F and little change occurs from day to night is the time these disease's become active and aggressive to kill the plant. I have found fewer root disease on the Nepenethes however bicalcarata is one that is prone to severe problems likely because of its need to be hot, humid, wet - wet -wet. There is another reason to add to this, in lower temperatures bicalcarata seems prone to root rot likely because the plant is weakening, so the disease moves in to the wet plant. Though I have had few problems with this on bicalacarta's its not uncommon to see it even in Florida. I do not grow N. bicalcarata in the shade, though it will grow in the shade a better plant can be grown in full morning sun in Florida and likely all day in the mid Atlantic. By providing more light the chance of fungal disease lessons compared to a darker wet environment. Fungal disease cannot really be cured through fungicides, they can be treated to a threshold of control but fungal diseases are extremely difficult to fight once you have them. Using fungicides as a preventative before they strike is the way to control fungus. It is very disappointing to the person who purchases a fungicide to fix their plant from its illness only to see that the product doesn't work. It may be working but its a tedious battle and often with common plants I chuck them in the waste dumpster. There are many options to try in the way of fungicides other than the few I mention here. As well some people swear by home made "soft" biological friendly methods such as soaps. As I stated I have moved on to more environmental friendly types but you cannot risk a large number of plants to home made voodoo or the loss could be greater. Using the soil borne bio-fungicides such as talked about here long ago proved to be of little positive use for myself. I had some decent results with one type but I am not impressed with a product called root shield and if you purchase the product it must be under 4 months old when packaged plus it must be kept in a refrigerator, Buying stuff that is dated 6 months more or later is worthless waste of money. Most think once applied they need not ever had more of the product because the good bacteria is growing in the soil to take care of the bad fungal pathogen. Not true, reapplication must be made at recommended times. Sure the colony of good bacteria is established but its also dying and being killed in the "micro war" between the good and the bad. The bad easily can invade the pot as they are already found in the growing area but the new root shield stuff is new and not capable of sending in re-enforcements. I believe the Australians on the list serve are very happy with these products as they are under many names other than US root shield. Take Care, Mike ################### From: westaustralia at libero.it (Cristiano Perrucci) Date: Tue May 3 05:09:16 2005 Subject: [CP] French joker Webmaster Hi folks! browsing on the Net, I found a French website with a number of CPs pictures too much similar to the pictures published on my website. Although I tried to contact the webmaster several times in the last 10days, pictures of the shame are still there. I was wondering if the photogallery of this site is pay of a huge harvest on the Net. You may check if you are the winner of this farse too, by clicking the below link: http://site.voila.fr/plantes-carnivores/ Cheers, Cristiano Perrucci, Italy http://digilander.iol.it/westaustralia/ (old and run down site, but still 100%genuine material inside!!) ____________________________________________________________ Navighi a 4 MEGA e i primi 3 mesi sono GRATIS. Scegli Libero Adsl Flat senza limiti su http://www.libero.it ################### From: calebcaleb_2000 at hotmail.com (caleb shaffer) Date: Tue May 3 08:30:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Help w/ my diseased Utricularia Hi everyone- I was hoping someone could help me identify what is attacking my Utricularia and how to save it. I have a U. ? growing in the same pot with a D. capensis 'red'. The stalks of the Utricularia are covered with a greyish-white fuzz, and they are slowly dying. Through my research into what it might be, the only thing I could come up with was Mealybug, but it didn't seem to fit. I couldn't see any 'soft-moving, fuzzy little bugs'. You can see a picture of it if you go to this link. http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/calebcaleb_2000/album?.dir=3f8d&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos Thank you for any help you can offer! Also, if you can identify the Utricularia, it would be very helpful as well! Thank you and happy growing! Caleb ################### From: it_290 at hotmail.com (mike wilder) Date: Tue May 3 09:20:08 2005 Subject: [CP] seeking jeff dallas hello jeff, i sent an email to your aol address, is it defunct? please email me if you see this-- mike wilder www.geocities.com/pingenstein ################### From: dhw at e-atelier.com (David Wong) Date: Tue May 3 11:27:07 2005 Subject: [CP] Canadian CP'ers Hi all... Thought I'd send a hello to all of you. It's been a long time since I've communicated with colleagues in the CP world. I'm very pleased to see a lot of familiar names (hi Chris Teichreb and Barry Rice) and a lot more new ones. I'm writing to see if any of my old CP chums from years past are still around - they include, Tom Kahl, Randy Lamb, Leo Song, Lorne Dennison, Joseph Yeo and Kevin Snively. I believe we were young men back then (owch!) I've still a few plants from my collection that dates back to the mid-1970's... that makes some of my plants over 30 years old. I'll be posting a number of images on a personal website soon, mostly pics of Nepenthes from my many hikes through Malaysia and Indonesia back when I had my office in Singapore. If any of my old buds are still around please email me. I am also interested in hearing from Canadian Cp'ers, especially around Vancouver. ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Tue May 3 12:48:18 2005 Subject: [CP] Boytris & fungal comments > i came home from work today to discover that the > lights on my terrarium > never went on. interestingly enough, there are bits > of what i'm pretty sure > is Botrytis on three plants and yet there was > nothing on any of them > yesterday. was amazed to see mold form that > quickly. at any rate, does > anyone have any suggestions for quickly nipping this > in the bud? > > any preferred anti-fungals or would just increasing > the light and > circulation stop it before it spreads? the spots > are really tiny on the two > sundews. however, there is a larger section of mold > on the bladderwort (i > kinda think that this mold is not botrytis, but i'm > not sure unless it's > just damp-off). i'm just a little worried as my > collection is still small > and i would hate to lose any plants at all. I've been wondering if buying one of those cheap little metal fans sitting on a box inside a tank would decrease the chances of fungus growing. it just seems more natural that the plants will experience some sort of air circulation in the wild even if moderate. if a plant is dead in an enclosed box wouldnt you think that the oxygen levels would be alot lower as well? circulating the air in the box would better utilize the co2 sitting in the dead spots. ################### From: gregharmison at houston.rr.com (Greg Harmison) Date: Tue May 3 14:45:35 2005 Subject: [CP] Help w/ my diseased Utricularia Sound like a fungus I used to get on my terrarium plants from time to time. It seemed to form almost overnight on any dead tissue. Try clipping off the affected material and allowing some ventilation. Greg H ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 10:31 AM > > Hi everyone- > > I was hoping someone could help me identify what is attacking my > Utricularia and how to save it. I have a U. ? growing in the same pot > with a D. capensis 'red'. The stalks of the Utricularia are covered with > a greyish-white fuzz, and they are slowly dying. Through my research into > what it might be, the only thing I could come up with was Mealybug, but it > didn't seem to fit. I couldn't see any 'soft-moving, fuzzy little bugs'. > You can see a picture of it if you go to this link. > > http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/calebcaleb_2000/album?.dir=3f8d&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos > > Thank you for any help you can offer! Also, if you can identify the > Utricularia, it would be very helpful as well! > > Thank you and happy growing! > > Caleb > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Tue May 3 16:08:23 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Jacksonville Hey person visiting Jacksonville, FL (sorry I missed your name). I live here nd I can tell you that you can find S. minor, S. flava (Near okee, actually North Entrance is your best bet, also for psitticenia), psitticenia adn if you know where to look leucophylla and purpurea ssp. venosa var. burkii. I doubt you will find the last two though as they are quite hidden. If you want some help/a possible tour of some bogs while your here let me know. Tre Bond ################### From: marsintenn at hotmail.com (mars schultz) Date: Tue May 3 18:50:30 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Cp fungus problems well, i removed the terrarium lid. and replaced it with wire mesh covering. already i've seen an improvement with the temperature not staying so high. would love to do the sunny windowsill thing, but my cats are not cooperative with that option. at any rate, the small white spots on the two drosera's were like a tiny clump of what looked kinda like clumped baby powder only bright white. as i said, the spots were small and they had only appeared on one leaf of each plant. after somemore reading online, besides the strong advice to provide good air circulation there was advice to remove dead leaves. i went ahead and removed the offending leaf from each plant as the leaves were old and not looking so hot and the plants have both been producing quite a number of new leaves. now the bladderwort is a different story. there is an area of about a half inch of fuzzy grey mold. it looks like a thin film of grey cotton. it hasn't spread or grown at all since my last post. it is maybe a half centimeter thick. in general, the utrics i have have not been doing as well as the drosera or the vft. oddly enough, i noticed what looks like utrics growing around the base of th d spatulata. these utrics seem quite halthy - brightly colored and standing upright unlike the ones in their own containers which are paler and a little droopy. the drosera is in a drained container, and the utrics are in undrained ones, i'm wondering if this could be part of the issue. well, i supposed that's a bit off topic. should i not worry about the fuzzy grey moss on the utric? would anyone have any advice on my unhappy utrics? thanks mars marsintenn@hotmail.com ps- thanks for all the info you did provide on fungus and treatment options. that list digest will be going in my save folder. ----PREVIOUS MESSAGE------ Sounds like you don't have enough air circulation which is a needed requirement for giving the plants a better chance of escaping fungal attacks. A enclosed terrarium can be a difficult place to allow enough ventilation but some form of opening should be made to allow air transfer and gentle circulation. Not sure by what you mean by bits of mold on the leaves. Mold often forms in a tight, mild to warm moist stagnant environment. Mold isn't the type of fungal infection that botrytis represents, and I would avoid using a fungicide on this because fungicides can be a delicate project to apply correctly. Fuzzy mold will likely be a problem in growing cp from time to time. Please describe what you are seeing better. It is very difficult to ID a fungal disease such as botrytis by visual observation because so many fungal disease look alike and it takes a keen eye to make a educated guess which are often in correct. Even the skilled highly educated plant pathologist can make visual mistakes prior to making up a lab exam. ################### From: Jim at seahorses.com (Jim Forshey) Date: Tue May 3 20:26:43 2005 Subject: [CP] Venezuela's Tepuis and looking for CP's. Hi A while back I thought I remember reading about some one visiting Venezuela's Tepuis and looking for CP's. If someone knows who that was, if you could please let me know. (I could not find what I was looking for the e-mail archives.) Thanks Jim Forshey Placerville, California ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Wed May 4 12:43:44 2005 Subject: [CP] Botrytis and fans in tanks I tried to use a computer fan in my Nepenthes tank some years ago. The fan wasn't to prevent Botrytis, I have never found it to be a problem with Neps. I used it to keep the glass of the aquarium clear from mist. Unfortunately, as you will find out if you try, the sheer levels of humidity inside the tank finished off the fan in a matter of weeks. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: jim_miller at mindspring.com (Jim Miller) Date: Wed May 4 15:56:01 2005 Subject: [CP] Venezuela's Tepuis and looking for CP's >Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 20:26:32 -0700 >From: "Jim Forshey" >Subject: [CP] Venezuela's Tepuis and looking for CP's. > >Hi >A while back I thought I remember reading about some one visiting >Venezuela's Tepuis and looking for CP's. > >If someone knows who that was, if you could please let me know. (I could not >find what I was looking for the e-mail archives.) Hi Jim, I think you may be referring to my post. There were expeditions to all the Venezuelan tepuis starting in August of last year and the last group returned in April. I can't give you specifics, but I can tell you that a two DVD set of images is in the works. One of the expedition's organizers shot both digital stills and digital video and the images are fantastic -- and that's a real understatement!! Many new species and forms of carnivorous plants were discovered and these will be formally described and named during the next 4-5 months. I think most CPers will be amazed at the discoveries, which as we all now know include Drosera meristocaulis, which was actually a "lost species" for quite some time. Some of you even have that plant now growing in your own greenhouses! Anyone that wants more information may contact me offline. At present, it appears that the DVDs will be available either late May or early June. I will post information as it becomes available and naturally, the folks at CPN will receive copies for review. Best regards, Jim ################### From: hsu at tlaloc.sfsu.edu (William Tsun-Yuk Hsu) Date: Thu May 5 12:11:38 2005 Subject: [CP] D. regia queries Hello, After putting up with several years of abuse, my D. regia seems to have stabilized and tripled in size from the original little runt. (I guess it's not a "Big Easy", probably more like a "Small Cranky" :-)) I notice it just started sending up a flower stalk. What's the general practice on D. regia flowers? Should I cut them off, or leave them? Also, I see a little plantlet (under 1" leaves) poking out of the medium, several inches from the main plant. How big should this be before I try separating it? Should I take special precautions not to disturb the parent? (In case anyone's interested, I grow mine outdoors in San Francisco, with pretty good morning through midday sun. For San Francisco, that is.) Thanks, Bill ################### From: jneps at comcast.net (jneps@comcast.net) Date: Thu May 5 12:26:24 2005 Subject: [CP] D. regia queries Hi Bill, One of my plants also flowered several years ago. The flowers are self-fertile; I was able to pollenate them and get viable seeds. Hope you can give it a shot and let us know how it goes. Jeff Shafer > Hello, > > After putting up with several years of abuse, my D. regia seems > to have stabilized and tripled in size from the original > little runt. (I guess it's not a "Big Easy", probably more like > a "Small Cranky" :-)) > > I notice it just started sending up a flower stalk. What's the > general practice on D. regia flowers? Should I cut them off, > or leave them? > > Also, I see a little plantlet (under 1" leaves) poking out of > the medium, several inches from the main plant. How big should > this be before I try separating it? Should I take special > precautions not to disturb the parent? > > (In case anyone's interested, I grow mine outdoors in San Francisco, > with pretty good morning through midday sun. For San Francisco, > that is.) > > Thanks, > Bill > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Thu May 5 13:08:12 2005 Subject: [CP] CP conference this summer Can someone provide with the info on the CP conference this summer? I lost it/lost the post. Tre ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Thu May 5 18:20:46 2005 Subject: [CP] Wanted: U. juncea Looking for US native Utricularia juncea . Wolf ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Fri May 6 10:32:53 2005 Subject: [CP] Nepenthes on Mars! Hey Folks, Recently as bedtime reading I've been brushing up on my knowledge of planetary astronomy, specifically the chemistry and landform-changing processes on the surface of Mars. I was reviewing some old maps and discovered, to my interest, that Mars has a region called Nepenthes. This name described a faint patch of grey which later disappeared---current interpretations are that it was a temporary dust field. However, new regions of Mars are named in a way to give as much continuity as possible to the old names, so the plains and mesas of this region are now called Nepenthes Mensae. Here is an image from the Nepenthes Mensae region: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9911/23/mars.deposits/crater.large.jpg So, we can lay to rest the old thread of carnivorous plants getting to Mars----Nepenthes is already there! Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Fri May 6 12:08:47 2005 Subject: [CP] Nepenthes on Mars! Hmm, interesting. Is there a certain rationale behind why they gave that area that specific name? Perhaps a cp enthusiast at NASA? Chris >From: "Barry Rice" >Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group >To: >Subject: [CP] Nepenthes on Mars! >Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 10:32:44 -0700 > > >Hey Folks, > >Recently as bedtime reading I've been brushing up on my knowledge of >planetary astronomy, specifically the chemistry and landform-changing >processes on the surface of Mars. > >I was reviewing some old maps and discovered, to my interest, that Mars has >a region called Nepenthes. This name described a faint patch of grey which >later disappeared---current interpretations are that it was a temporary >dust >field. However, new regions of Mars are named in a way to give as much >continuity as possible to the old names, so the plains and mesas of this >region are now called Nepenthes Mensae. > >Here is an image from the Nepenthes Mensae region: >http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9911/23/mars.deposits/crater.large.jpg > > >So, we can lay to rest the old thread of carnivorous plants getting to >Mars----Nepenthes is already there! > >Barry > >Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. >Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor >The International Carnivorous Plant Society >http://www.carnivorousplants.org > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Fri May 6 12:43:54 2005 Subject: [CP] CP conference ths year Tre asked about details of the CP conference this year. I'm not quite sure which conference you mean , Tre. The ICPS conference is actually next year, in Maryland, in May I think . There will be more details on the ICPS website sometime this summer, I believe (www.canivorousplants.org). There is a small conference in Europe, in Prague, this September, but I don't think that you meant that one. I look forward to the conferences when they are based in America, I only hope that no one that I've upset over the year, brings their gun along. That's probably a bit too near the point from the goings ons that have happened this year, no offence intended though. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: DorryD at comcast.net (DorryD@comcast.net) Date: Fri May 6 13:56:24 2005 Subject: [CP] first time ################### From: jneps at comcast.net (jneps@comcast.net) Date: Fri May 6 14:17:09 2005 Subject: [CP] first time Hi Donna, Glad that the site is helpful! Best wishes, J > hello my name is donna and i have a nice size nepenthis coccinea.I > have had it for two years.I also have a few orchids.I have paid so > much attention on my orchids that i failed in the amount of time that > i should have ben learning more about nepenthis fortunately this site > is giving me the much needed knowlege to better take care of > coccinea.thank youso much.donna > _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: marsintenn at hotmail.com (mars schultz) Date: Fri May 6 14:22:55 2005 Subject: [CP] Nepenthes on Mars! darn it. there they go again, naming my grey areas. mars marsintenn@hotmail.com Message: 5 To: Message-ID: <200505061732.j46HWiUU001373@amsterdam.ucdavis.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hey Folks, Recently as bedtime reading I've been brushing up on my knowledge of planetary astronomy, specifically the chemistry and landform-changing processes on the surface of Mars. I was reviewing some old maps and discovered, to my interest, that Mars has a region called Nepenthes. This name described a faint patch of grey which later disappeared---current interpretations are that it was a temporary dust field. However, new regions of Mars are named in a way to give as much continuity as possible to the old names, so the plains and mesas of this region are now called Nepenthes Mensae. Here is an image from the Nepenthes Mensae region: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9911/23/mars.deposits/crater.large.jpg So, we can lay to rest the old thread of carnivorous plants getting to Mars----Nepenthes is already there! Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ------------------------------ ################### From: ClaraVoiAunt at aol.com (ClaraVoiAunt@aol.com) Date: Fri May 6 14:30:05 2005 Subject: [CP] Re:regia Flower Hey there William, Jeff mentioned that the flowers are self fertile. It has been my experience to use yesterday"s pollen on today's pistil. the pistil will turn yellow so you know it has "taken". If you are going to the plant sale for BACPS in Sept. I will have my plants, baby D. Regias, there. I started them from seed last August. Almost a full inch tall, now. Another member of BACPS was able to start seed that had been refrigerated for 15 years. he planted the seed this past Feb. and so far the plantlets are doing well. Thanx for listening and keep 'em plants growin' Lois In a message dated 5/6/2005 12:02:16 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: Message: 1 To: Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello, After putting up with several years of abuse, my D. regia seems to have stabilized and tripled in size from the original little runt. (I guess it's not a "Big Easy", probably more like a "Small Cranky" :-)) I notice it just started sending up a flower stalk. What's the general practice on D. regia flowers? Should I cut them off, or leave them? ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Fri May 6 14:33:37 2005 Subject: [CP] Nepenthes ventricosa pollen available Dear Nepenthes fans, I have two male _Nepenthes ventricosa_ which are starting to produce pollen. It is available to whoever would like some. Male #1 has normal yellowish coloration with pink speckles, peristome red/pink. Male #2 has solid-pink pitchers! I would like to be able to receive a portion (up to 50%) of any seed which might be produced, or if I forgo my portion, please consider sending some into a seed bank for further distribution. Thank-you, Dave Evans P.S. Two more seed grown _N. ventricosa_ have just started growing flowers, can't tell if they're male or female yet. This species definitely flowers in response to the spring, and perhaps in response to other clones flowering nearby. ################### From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri May 6 15:09:03 2005 Subject: [CP] Nepenthes on Mars! > > I was reviewing some old maps and discovered, to my interest, that Mars has > a region called Nepenthes. This name described a faint patch of grey which > later disappeared---current interpretations are that it was a temporary dust > field. I found a reference on that. It was named Nepenthes after the "Egyptian drug of forgetfulness". >However, new regions of Mars are named in a way to give as much > continuity as possible to the old names, so the plains and mesas of this > region are now called Nepenthes Mensae. It is a flat-topped mesa named in 1976, and a "classical albedo feature name". Mars is cold, dry and sandy - not very good growing conditions for carnivorous plants. In fact, one of our rovers is currently stuck in the sand, which we're trying to get out. Ron Baalke --------------------------------------------------------------------- MEDIA RELATIONS OFFICE JET PROPULSION LABORATORY CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION PASADENA, CALIFORNIA 91109. TELEPHONE (818) 354-5011 http://www.jpl.nasa.gov Guy Webster (818) 354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. News Release: 2005-072 May 6, 2005 Rover Team Tests Mars Moves on Earth Mars rover engineers are using a testing laboratory to simulate specific Mars surface conditions where NASA's rover Opportunity has spun its wheels in a small dune. Careful testing is preceding any commands for Opportunity to resume moving to get out of the dune and continue exploring. The rover team at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., has cooked up recipes combining various sandy and powdery materials for the best simulation on Earth of the dune where Opportunity dug itself in to wheel-hub depth last week. The team has not asked Opportunity to turn its wheels at all since the rover bogged down during a drive on April 26. "We choose to proceed cautiously, so we don't expect to begin actually driving out of the dune before next week, possibly later," said Jim Erickson, rover project manager at JPL. "Both Opportunity and Spirit have already provided many more months of scientific exploration than anyone expected. By taking good care of them, we hope to keep them exploring for more months to come. Tests so far have sustained our optimism about Opportunity's ability to drive out of this dune, but we have more testing ahead to understand how robust that capability is." Opportunity had driven about 40 meters (131 feet) of a planned 90-meter (295-foot) drive on the rover's 446th martian day when its wheels began slipping. The rover was driving backwards at the time. The team frequently alternates between backwards and forwards driving to keep wheel lubrication well distributed. The wheels kept rotating enough times to have covered the rest of the distance if they hadn't been slipping, but the rover eventually barely inched forward. After a turn at the end of the planned drive, Opportunity sensed that it had not turned properly and stopped moving. Opportunity is positioned across the ridge of an elongated dune or ripple of soft sand that is about one-third meter (one foot) tall and 2.5 meters (8 feet) wide. "We've climbed over dozens of ripples, but this one is different in that it seems to be a little taller and to have a steeper slope, about 15 degrees on part of its face," said Mark Maimone, a JPL rover mobility engineer. Last week, engineers arranged a simulated dune using sand that was already at JPL's rover testing facility and put a test rover into a comparably dug-in position. The test rover had no difficulty driving away, even when sunk in belly-deep. However, that sand offered better traction than the finer, looser material that appears to make up the surface at Opportunity's current position. "We needed to do tests using material more like what Opportunity is in, something that has a fluffier texture and cakes onto the wheels," said JPL rover engineer Rick Welch, who is leading the tests. Experimenting with different mixtures, engineers and scientists came up with a recipe that includes play sand for children's sandboxes, diatomaceous earth for swimming pool filters and mortar clay powder. Then they went to several home supply and hardware stores to find enough bags and boxes of the ingredients to make more than 2 tons of the simulated Mars sand for more realistic mobility tests, said JPL rover mobility engineer Jeff Biesiadecki. Dr. Robert Sullivan of Cornell University, Ithaca, N.Y., a rover science team member, worked with engineers in the JPL testbed to match the properties of the test sand as closely as possible with those of the sand beneath Opportunity, based on images of wheels and wheel tracks on Mars. "We found that when the wheels dig in, the material we're using does stick to the wheels and fills the gaps between the cleats, but it doesn't stick when you're just driving over it. That's good because it's the same as what we see in the images from Opportunity," Sullivan said. Experiments indicate that in this more powdery material, the test rover positioned comparably to Opportunity can drive out after some initial wheel-spinning. More testing, analysis, planning and review will precede any actual commands for Opportunity to begin driving away from the dune. Meanwhile, Opportunity has been using its cameras to study its surroundings at the edge of a region called "Etched Terrain." Since landing more than 15 months ago, it has driven 5.35 kilometers (3.32 miles). Spirit, halfway around Mars, has recently been using all of its research tools to examine an outcrop called "Methuselah," the first outcrop of layered rock that Spirit has found. The rover has also been taking short movies of dust-carrying whirlwinds called "dust devils." On some afternoons, the rover sees several at once moving across the plain. Spirit has driven a total of 4.31 kilometers (2.68 miles). JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, has managed NASA's Mars Exploration Rover project since it began in 2000. Images and additional information about the rovers and their discoveries are available on the Internet at http://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/solarsystem/mer_main.html and http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov . -end- ################### From: pramodisha at yahoo.com (Pramod Agrawal) Date: Fri May 6 19:35:04 2005 Subject: [CP] I need Cp Plants Dear Members, I am based in India and need all kinds of carnivorous plants. I have several other seeds/seedlings and plants available for exchange. I can also provide web designing and development services if somebody is willing to send me live CP plants. Please contact me directly by email if you are willing to trade plants or send me plants. Best Regards, Pramod. ################### From: rhillier at swconnection.com (Rick Hillier) Date: Fri May 6 20:13:39 2005 Subject: [CP] Anyone Have D. anglica For Sale In Canada? Greetings all, This has been an interesting winter for my bog garden in Southern Ontario. We had a period where it rained and then turned to snow. This resulted in a heavy load of wet snow that stuck to the birds netting enclosure that surrounded the garden, causing the whole thing to collapse. I haven't had the time to rebuild it, and as a result, the birds and rodents have come in and snatched up most of the moss in which many of my temperate sundews were growing. Many set seed last year, which I am hoping may have been left behind and will ultimately germinate, however, I lost the only two hibernacula of Drosera anglica that I had. It took me years to finally get a hold of a plant and last year, I succeeded. Now they're gone, along with most of my rotundifolia, intermedia and linearis. Does anyone in Canada (or who can ship to Canada) have any D. anglica plants or hibernacula that they would be willing to sell? Rick Hillier Kitchener, ON ################### From: hansbr at giga.net.tw (Hans Breuer) Date: Fri May 6 21:10:58 2005 Subject: [CP] Nepenthes on Mars! >I found a reference on that. It was named Nepenthes after the >"Egyptian drug of forgetfulness". > > Greek, actually: http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwords/ww-nep1.htm NEPENTHES A drug or potion bringing welcome forgetfulness. This comes from Homer's /Odyssey/, in which it was the name of the drug that Paris gave to Helen after he had abducted her to make her forget her old home. It derives from the classical Greek /ne-/, "not", plus /penthos/, "grief". Expert plantspeople probably know it best as the botanical name for a genus of tropical carnivorous pitcher plants. As the pitcher plants contain liquid in which the captured insects drown, the botanical name would seem appropriate, though in this case the forgetting is terminal. Some writers have suggested Homer's potion was opium. Nicholas Culpeper, the famous herbalist, had this recipe for making a nepenthes draught: "Take of tincture of Opium made first with distilled Vinegar, then with spirit of Wine, Saffron extracted in spirit of Wine, of each an ounce, salt of Pearl and Coral, of each half an ounce, tincture of species Diambr? seven drams, Ambergris one dram: bring them into the form of Pills by the gentle heat of a bath". That should be enough to make anybody forget anything. The word--commonly found as /nepenthe/, lacking its final letter--is otherwise solely poetic or literary. One of its better-known appearances is in Edgar Allan Poe's poem /The Raven/: "Quaff, oh quaff this kind nepenthe and forget this lost Lenore! / Quoth the raven, 'Nevermore'." And here's a slightly more recent example, from /The Yellow Claw/ by Sax Rohmer: "I do not employ opium as an aid to my social activities; I regard it as nepenthe from them and as a key to a brighter realm". World Wide Words is copyright ? Michael Quinion, 1996-2005. All rights reserved. Contact the author for reproduction requests. Comments and feedback are always welcome. /Page created 2 December 2000./ ################### From: barry_burch at excite.com (Barry Burch) Date: Fri May 6 22:26:36 2005 Subject: [CP] N.A.S.C. Benefit Auction http://www.petflytrap.com/indexterra.html Starting Sunday May 8, 2005. You may bid and/or donate CP to raise funds for the North American Sarracenia Conservancy. Thanks, Barry _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ################### From: rafflesiana at yahoo.com (marcello catalano) Date: Sat May 7 04:52:17 2005 Subject: [CP] news on nepenthesofthailand.com News on www.nepenthesofthailand.com ! I had some computer problems in the last months, so the updating was delayed, but now here it is! -a strange plant was discovered in a lowland jungle, see the pics and a few infos in the note 16 of The South map -N. smilesii has been found in the lowlands, see one pic and a few infos in the note 5 of The South map -some more informations about the Kirirom n.p. in Cambodia, by Julien Jedrusiak, see note 2 of the Cambodia map -you can finally give a look at the short text dedicated to N. anamensis (now called N. smilesii) and N. thorelii in "A skeletal revision of Nepenthes", by M. Jebb and M. Cheek, see the part "What’s on the books" in my long research -Heiko Rischer provided some more pics of N. smilesii in habitat on Phu Kradung. Just go to the site's homepage and you'll reach these links very easily (always check the bottom of the page for any updating). Please, if you visit these countries: respect Mother Nature, take photos of pitcher plants and tell your story. That’s the main way to improve this website and our general knowledge about Nepenthes from Indochina! By the way, the visits to nepenthesofthailand.com are becoming stable, about 70 per week, mainly from Asia and the United States. So...Thanks! Marcello Catalano __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ################### From: goffinses at yahoo.com (L.) Date: Sat May 7 11:03:03 2005 Subject: [CP] pesticides, & listserv search? I seem to have a pest problem that is rapidly growing bad. I am not sure but think I have both aphids and mealybugs and possibly something else. I want to bring out the big guns before things get any worse (I have already lost my beloved N. ovata). Can you all refresh me on what is the state of the art for pesticides these days and where a good place for purchase is? I seem to remember that D'Amato's top recommendation, Orthene, is no longer available. I am looking for a wettable powder agent. I have seen a similar topic recently, I think, but at the time I was not paying attention. Unfortunately the listserv archives only seem to allow searching up to March 2003. Is there a workaround for this, or could it be fixed, or is there another chunk of archives hosted elsewhere? I ask with complete appreciation of Barry, I believe it is? (et al?) for maintaining and running the listserv, often a difficult and thankless task. Cheers, Laurel Vermont Discover Yahoo! Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/ ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu) Date: Sat May 7 11:31:01 2005 Subject: [CP] pesticides, & listserv search? Dear Laurel, Ortho Systemic Insect Control is now the product name for Orthene. Yes, it is still available, just not as "Orthene." You'll have to re-treat your plants every two weeks, as new eggs hatch. Scales are the worst, you'll have to do four good treatments to kill off their population, if you have them. -Most other pests die out in two or three treatments. The poison only works on the bugs you spray directly and on the insects that are drinking from a well treated leaf (i.e. the babies that hatched in the week after you sprayed). I don't use wet-able powder--not sure how well it works, just the concentrate which you dilute with water. I use a stick to lift each leaf and spray the undersides as well. Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of L. Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 2:03 PM To: cp@omnisterra.com I seem to have a pest problem that is rapidly growing bad. I am not sure but think I have both aphids and mealybugs and possibly something else. I want to bring out the big guns before things get any worse (I have already lost my beloved N. ovata). Can you all refresh me on what is the state of the art for pesticides these days and where a good place for purchase is? I seem to remember that D'Amato's top recommendation, Orthene, is no longer available. I am looking for a wettable powder agent. ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sat May 7 13:15:18 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: CP conference + trade Yes I was confused about the date. I found the email and it said 2006. Sorry about that. Anyway I have some D. peltata seed to trade. Also Could anyone give me some informatin on germinating and caring for D. stenopetala? The only site that I can find is in german which I do not happen to speak and the online translation comes out very badly. Tre Bond ################### From: goffinses at yahoo.com (L.) Date: Sat May 7 14:13:01 2005 Subject: [CP] pesticides Dave, thanks for the info. D'Amato had said he preferred wettable powder to aerosol-type due to the propellant, but I can see no reason why mixing up with a liquid concentrate wouldn't be just as good if not better. (As long as I clearly label the spray container... wouldn't want to spritz the cat scratching the woodwork with Orthene ...) In the future I'd like to preventatively use something less toxic. My orchid-growing father-in-law uses neem oil, but I think that is not recommended for CPs? What do you all use? Cheers, Laurel Vermont > > Message: 15 > Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 14:30:52 -0400 > From: > Subject: RE: [CP] pesticides, & listserv search? > To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" > Message-ID: <000101c55332$e62ff520$22aba8c0@ad.ess.rutgers.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Dear Laurel, > > > Ortho Systemic Insect Control is now the product name for Orthene. > Yes, it is still available, just not as "Orthene." You'll have to re-treat > your plants every two weeks, as new eggs hatch. Scales are the worst, > you'll have to do four good treatments to kill off their population, if you > have them. -Most other pests die out in two or three treatments. The > poison only works on the bugs you spray directly and on the insects that are > drinking from a well treated leaf (i.e. the babies that hatched in the week > after you sprayed). I don't use wet-able powder--not sure how well it > works, just the concentrate which you dilute with water. I use a stick to > lift each leaf and spray the undersides as well. > > > Dave Evans > New Jersey, USA > www.Dangerousplants.com > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu) Date: Sat May 7 16:38:23 2005 Subject: [CP] pesticides Dear Laurel, Keep in mind, you have to apply these types of products (Ortho Systemic Insect Control) outside. It is rather like using spray paint, you will get some fumes. If you have a couple of plants to spray, mix up just a small amount for spraying on the plants as you should not bother keeping the diluted mixture, it needs to be freshly made when you use it. I poor and rinse the spray bottle of leftover spray into a flower bed. Good luck, Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of L. Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 5:13 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Dave, thanks for the info. D'Amato had said he preferred wettable powder to aerosol-type due to the propellant, but I can see no reason why mixing up with a liquid concentrate wouldn't be just as good if not better. (As long as I clearly label the spray container... wouldn't want to spritz the cat scratching the woodwork with Orthene ...) In the future I'd like to preventatively use something less toxic. My orchid-growing father-in-law uses neem oil, but I think that is not recommended for CPs? What do you all use? Cheers, Laurel Vermont ################### From: ThomBroGar at aol.com (ThomBroGar@aol.com) Date: Sat May 7 18:33:33 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: pesticides, & listserv search? In a message dated 5/7/2005 3:02:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: > pesticides, &listserv search? > I used Orthene on my Sarracenias last summer for Exrya moths (nasty, persistent buggers) at a rate of half to 1/4 recommended application. I got distorted twisted late season pitchers some eradication and this year to my dismay some of the newly emerging pitchers are twisted and distorted as well and YES I still have the darn moths.(actually the larvae/caterpillars) I also stripped all the pitchers off all the plants this winter and burned them. I think this helped greatly reduce the numbers. I have introduced a biological control this season as well that is found in bog ecosystems, a green crab spider of sorts that hide in the mouths of pitchers. The spiders should dispatch the female moths as they fly from pitcher to pitcher to lay their eggs. Has anyone done any experimenting with Neem oil? Also sold as SureFine. It is sold as an environmental, friendly, horticultural, oil of sorts that is not cool weather dependent. It should work nicely on scale and mealy bugs. I have used it on mealy bugs on other plants with good success. ################### From: mjarnaldi at ixpres.com (MJ and John Arnaldi) Date: Sat May 7 19:33:07 2005 Subject: [CP] Botrytis and fans in tanks I have had a large terrarium for I have had a large (75 gallon) terrarium for four years. I Have set up a ventilation system using a small computer fan to exhaust the terrarium. 80% of cover is glass, but there is a strip of plastic on the back part of the cover. I cut a hole in that for the fan and attached the fan on the top of the cover over the hole. The fan runs off of an AC adapter. I have two air intake tubes that penetrate each of the back corners of the cover and bring air into the terrarium. For the most part, I have had no problems with fogging or mold. At one point, I thought the top of the terrarium lid didn't fit tight enough, so I used a foam rubber backed tape to allow for a tighter fit of the glass lids. Immediately, the glass started fogging and within a week I saw more mold on old leaves. I removed the tape, and everything went back to normal again. So, apparently in my set up, intake of air from a loose fitting top is also valuable and necessary, even with two separate air vents. Sometimes after feedings the drosera leaves may become moldy with a big white fuzzy ball of mold over the food on the leaf. This usually happens when the food item was bigger than what the leaf could digest. This mold has never spread or caused any other problems for me. When I first assembled this terrarium four years ago, I did have an algae bloom in the water reservoir within the first two weeks. I used a diluted solution of Physan added to the 10 gallons or so of water in the reservoir. I never had any further problems and I have never used any chemical fungicides since. I did add some Root Shield (trichoderma) during the second year, but I wasn't sure if it helped as things were doing pretty well anyway. As far as pests go, I have had aphids twice and just suspended flea collars over the plants that had them. All the aphids disappeared within a week. I left the flea collars in there for about two weeks after the aphids disappeared. Twice I noticed white threads of fungus growing in some of the live sphagnum. I just removed the affected moss and threw it away. No problems since. I use no chemical fertilizers. Good luck! -- John John Arnaldi Jesus, Prince of Peace Institute http://www.jesusprinceofpeace.org Temple Terrace, Florida ################### From: owns6196 at comcast.net (owns6196) Date: Sat May 7 21:54:04 2005 Subject: [CP] Introduction Hello my name is David Owings and I just got my first Venus Fly Trap today my brother purchased it for me from a plant nursery it's a small fly trap but it has two more immature traps coming up from below and 1 or 2 traps that are near to maturity so my new plant friend will do very well in my home we have alot of house flys for it to feed on and eventually when it gets bigger maybe I can feed my little brother to it :-) I am 40 years old and I live with my Mom I take care of her she's a senior citizen. My brother he's 38 and he lives with me and our mother he cares for her too my doing home repairs and cooking for her. I have 4 ferrets, 1 dwarf hamster and 1 cat none of them can access my fly trap or other plants I have. I have one question is it advisiable to put a piece of fruit close to the fly trap so it will attract fruit flies? Sincerely David Owings Ferrets have a way of weaseling their way into your heart and once they do they never leave and I wouldn't have it any other way -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.6 - Release Date: 5/6/2005 ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Sat May 7 23:20:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Avis Commercial Surprised no one else has mentioned this, but I just saw a commercial for Avis, a very short 15 second one. Two women are touring a garden, leaving the cactus patch. the one says to the other that this garden has the most exquisite Venus Flytraps. The other lady reaches down to touch a VFT that is next to the path, and rapidly pulls her hand away as the trap closes rapidly. What makes it so astounding is that the traps are a good foot long, easily large enough to snap the woman's hand off. Obviously the garden has been fertilizing their VFTs with steroids! TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: petiolarissean at yahoo.com (Sean Samia) Date: Sun May 8 01:42:02 2005 Subject: [CP] I'm back! Hello,Finally got a computer again that works.I'm here for anyone who needs help on growing the Petiolaris Complex.Also,Zen master in lighting knowledge and micro-inviroments habitats.I just recently obtained a 5.0 digital camera and will be photographing my Petiolaris collection.The best plants and hybrids out of thousands I have grown from seed.Also,I have hybrid D.Caduca with the other petiolaris form and will be releasing the results very soon.Petiolaris Sean(motor-mouth) ################### From: jmateosky at yahoo.com (JIM MATEOSKY) Date: Sun May 8 05:04:17 2005 Subject: [CP] new plants entering & prevenative spaying? Hi, I have a green house wih a bunch (1000s) of orchids and nepenthes (which I am new to). I have heard too many horror stories recently about one new plant contaminating the rest etc.. What do you spay plants with as a preventitive measure? Agro-micyn (spelled wrong?) for orchids? And for nepentes? How do you protect the water in the pitchers, won't it mess them up? Thanks in advance, you all are so increadable helpful ################### From: srcurrie at currieweb.com (Steven R. Currie) Date: Sun May 8 07:29:13 2005 Subject: [CP] Butterworts Has anyone ever seen pinguicula vulgaris for sale? Does anyone raise it? I thought vulgris meant "common" but it seems to be hard to find. Steve ################### From: stovehouse at earthlink.net (Michael Hunt) Date: Sun May 8 08:48:19 2005 Subject: [CP] pesticides, & listserv search? I seem to have a pest problem that is rapidly growing bad. I am not sure but think I have both aphids and mealybugs and possibly something else. I want to bring out the big guns before things get any worse (I have already lost my beloved N. ovata). Can you all refresh me on what is the state of the art for pesticides these days and where a good place for purchase is? I seem to remember that D'Amato's top recommendation, Orthene, is no longer available. I am looking for a wettable powder agent. I have seen a similar topic recently, I think, but at the time I was not paying attention. Unfortunately the listserv archives only seem to allow searching up to March 2003. Is there a workaround for this, or could it be fixed, or is there another chunk of archives hosted elsewhere? I ask with complete appreciation of Barry, I believe it is? (et al?) for maintaining and running the listserv, often a difficult and thankless task. Cheers, Laurel Vermont Laurel, What I am writing here pertains to Sarracenia, however the "Top Guns" are mentioned for most all cp to. The pesticide that makes up WP orthene is acephate. Orthene has the largest amount of acephate in it for horticultural grade use and is still available to commercial growers at least in Florida. It also smells like rotting cabbage. At stores like Home Depot acpehate is sold in a oil (petro) mix in various forms. As the actual pesticide makes up very little on the concentrate and the listing on the green Ortho containers list a likely amount of inert ingredients that make up a average of about 97% these products are not overall suitable yet readily available to the retail customer. As you state you are looking for a WP (wettable powder) and these are the best but again they are not sold to the retail market. For the trade grower they are expensive and the quantity much to large for the typical type of use a homeowner or hobbyist would need. The product does have a life span just as medicine. The applications must be done correctly so even purchasing the large trade amounts is very difficult to calibrate for small spray tank use. The products I have used from stores such as Home Depot have in fact included some of oil or petro based products. I have really had no problems with Isotox or Orthoenex both made by Ortho. As the name suggest Isotox is a more powerful product with 8% of acephate compare to Orthoenex at 4%. Always use the least amount fist. As for the WP power form I use as a last resort at low application rates. I stress that I like none of these products and when I say I don't have much of a problem with any of them, all effect the plants. If the calibration isn't correct the burning of the leaves is certain and possible loss of plants. But if you do nothing to control the problem most likely the plants will weaken and die anyway. Malathion is another product that is available as a WP, though not a systemic as the acephate so it is more of a direct effect but no control for future protection until applied again. Malathion is also available as a dust, that is useful . Aphids are easy to control even though they can quickly get out of control and ants spread them so they are also part of the aphid problem. For these pest I would use a dish soap mixture and different types are most likely in the archives or can be searched on the web for biological friendly way to kill them. Some will mention ladybugs, and they work but also the plants trap them. I find them useless outside as they will likely fly away or be killed off by various things. Inside a greenhouse I might try them or praying mantis. Also there are some predatory mites that attack some insects but again I have yet to try these. I like a biological friendly product over any chemical and advise you to fully seek out these. A web search will likely lead to different types used on plants but not cp, however they are worth a look and trial on more common plants than a N. ovata. Mealybugs have the white fluffy stuff on their backs, & scales are tough customers to get rid of. None of the soapy mixtures will have much of a long term effect in getting them. They are a severe pest to loss of plants. Also don't forget the mealy bugs species are root types and they are a %#@! to treat in the soil. Root mealies enjoy peat mixes very much. Compared to other potting mediums studies show that the root mealies prefer peat the more peat the more root mealie friendly. The "Top Guns" I use are Marathon and Talstar. Marathon is another only horticultural trade product available to the commercial grower. It comes in a WP or glandules. It is much more friendly to the environment than the products I list above. In fact as soon as it dries its safe for re-entry in a open outside area. The chemical is Imidacloprid . This is Marathon. Imidacloprid is used for many applications that many may be familiar with. I think pet owners will know this Imidacloprid in the flea & tick killed products sold as Frontline & Advantage. Imidacloprid is a pesticide and as such must be given respect as to handling and application. The home owner is lucky because Marathon is available at Lowes or any garden retailer that stocks Bayer Advanced garden products. The ones in the blue bottles. Marketed under several types of use. http://www.bayeradvanced.com/index.cfm I use Rose & Flower Insect Killer Ready-To-Spray, Rose & Flower Insect Killer Concentrate, Tree & Shrub Insect Control - all sold under the Bayer Advanced Garden trade name. All contain imidacloprid in smaller amounts than the Marathon. The Tree & Shrub Insect control is a in ground application and proper for pot drenches. Imidacloprid is a excellent systemic pesticide that has low risk when used according to directions. Some of these products are hooked directly to your garden hose therefore unless you have a powerful pump for RO water tap water will be required to spray and its best to hook it up a water breaker at the end of the hose so the force won't bust the plants up. A hand held sprayer on the bottle is sold for small problems. Another excellent product is Talstar (trade name). The pesticide is Bifen available in granules and concentrate mixed with water. Its not a Wettable powder but it is truly a excellent and environmental friendly pesticide that offers systemic protection. Bifen is sold under several trade names some available to the retail consumer in better garden centers or nurseries. The above listed pesticides, Imidacioprid & Bifen offer a broad spectrum insect control and the list is large of the types of bugs listed. They will likely control almost all the bugs that bother cp. But.... they don't do a good job on caterpillars or grub larva. A third powerful but again environmental friendly over other pesticides is Conserve SE (trade name) is the pesticide Spinosad. It effects the target insects however beneficials are not bothered (such as honey bees, ladybugs), Spinosad is the best pesticide I have ever used to control caterpillars on anything. Caterpillars many people do not know are a huge pest to Sarracenia, in habitat and can be in collections, but that's another story. Spinosad Controls thrips rapidly and maintains control of them for a while. Spinosad doesn't work on aphids which is surprising as it does control a host of other sucking insects. For other use it is extremely effective against fleas in a lawn or yard application and ants. Grubs are controlled and again they are another often over looked problem of cp because they range in size and live in the potting medium so are unseen because they are active at night. The grubs are mainly beetle larva. Spinosad applied as a drench is effective on rhizome boring insects, and wasp can be included in insects that bore into rhizomes to lay eggs. Spinosad (Conserve SE) cannot be compared to the pesticide BT for caterpillar use. BT is a good short term solution until the new eggs are laid or hatch, but Spinosad really offers a superior longer solution. The various wasp is another example of a insect that most people don't count on as a major out door pest to rhizomes. The holes are small as are the larva. Any hole bored into a rhizome or a plants foliage allows disease to follow. A plant under attack from aphids can offer many more problems than just killing them. Some people will use a soapy mix to smother the aphids and then a month later don't understand why the plant has some sort of illness and marked leaves. The aphid is the vector biting a diseased plant to suck its juices and then is carried to another plant (your plants) by ants to produce honey dew for the ant colony. Ants do the same with scale and mealy bugs that they farm. Your plant is bitten by the aphid and the disease may move into your plant offering larger problems than the actual aphid infestation. Above all read all directions for any pesticide you select and follow those directions on how to properly use, store, & dispose of. Make sure the pesticide is applicable to your surroundings. Don't use them in doors by any means and that means a enclosed terrarium. Be safe at all times. Understand the calibration rates and what you are mixing as a spreader (water type), if you mix pesticides together make sure they are compatible. Read carefully when to reapply so that you don't use it to much. One application will seldom take care of a minor to severe problem. The best time to treat a plant is the first sign of pest not after they are well established. Some may view a pest and say well there are only a few so its ok. What a mistake. If you see a few no doubt there are many or thousands more you either don't see yet or have yet to hatch. Some pest like spider mite or thrips damage isn't seen until infestation is difficult to control until the climate changes to make it unfavorable for them. Take Care, Mike St. Petersburg Fl ################### From: stovehouse at earthlink.net (Michael Hunt) Date: Sun May 8 08:50:32 2005 Subject: [CP] Venus Flytrap TV ad I just saw a short, maybe 30 second ad on TV from Avis Car Rental which showed 2 woman in a botanical garden looking at a fake large Venus Flytrap and One woman says "It likes you". First time I have ever seen a TV ad where the Venus Fly Trap was the star of the ad. Mike ST. Petersburg Fl ################### From: jmanion at mainegardens.org (jmanion@mainegardens.org) Date: Sun May 8 12:19:13 2005 Subject: [CP] Drosera stratification question I hope the answer to this question isn't so obvious that I'm making a fool of myself for asking this...but - on the seed packet of D. intermedia (Cuba) I receieved from ICPS, it says "no stratification." Am I correct in thinking this means I do not need to stratify before sowing? I just wanted to makes sure this didn't mean it had not been stratified and that I need to. Thanks, John On Sun, 08 May 2005 15:04:21 -0400 Cp-request@omnisterra.com wrote: > Send Cp mailing list submissions to > Cp@omnisterra.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, >visit > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > or, via email, send a message with subject or body >'help' to > Cp-request@omnisterra.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > Cp-owner@omnisterra.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is >more specific > than "Re: Contents of Cp digest..." > > > CP Mailing list > > Today's Topics: > > 1. RE: CP conference + trade (Tre Bond) > 2. pesticides (L.) > 3. RE: pesticides (dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu) > 4. Re: pesticides, & listserv search? > (ThomBroGar@aol.com) > 5. Botrytis and fans in tanks I have had a large >terrarium for > four years. I Have set up a ventilation system >using a small > computer fan to exhaust the terrarium. 80% of cover >is glass, but > there is a strip of plastic on the back part of the >cover. I cut > a hole in that for the fan and attached the fan on >the top of the > cover over the hole. The fan runs off of an AC >adapter. I have > two air intake tubes that penetrate each of the >back corners of > the cover and bring air into the terrarium. I >have had no > problems with fogging or mold. However, sometimes >after feedings > the drosera leaves may become moldy with a big >white fuzzy ball > of mold over the food remains on the leaf. This >usually happens > when the food item was bigger than what the leaf >could digest. > This mold has never spread or caused any other >problems for me. > Good luck! -- John John Arnaldi Jesus, Prince of >Peace Institute > http://www.jesusprinceofpeace.org Temple Terrace, >Florida > (MJ and John Arnaldi) > 6. Introduction (owns6196) > 7. Avis Commercial (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) > 8. I'm back! (Sean Samia) > 9. new plants entering & prevenative spaying? (JIM >MATEOSKY) > 10. Butterworts (Steven R. Currie) > 11. pesticides, & listserv search? (Michael Hunt) > 12. Venus Flytrap TV ad (Michael Hunt) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 13:15:07 -0700 (PDT) >From: Tre Bond > Subject: [CP] RE: CP conference + trade > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: ><20050507201507.26635.qmail@web53301.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Yes I was confused about the date. I found the email >and it said 2006. Sorry about that. > > Anyway I have some D. peltata seed to trade. > Also Could anyone give me some informatin on germinating >and caring for D. stenopetala? The only site that I can >find is in german which I do not happen to speak and the >online translation comes out very badly. > Tre Bond > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Mail > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 14:12:50 -0700 (PDT) >From: "L." > Subject: [CP] pesticides > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: ><20050507211250.64506.qmail@web30413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Dave, thanks for the info. D'Amato had said he preferred >wettable powder to aerosol-type due to > the propellant, but I can see no reason why mixing up >with a liquid concentrate wouldn't be just > as good if not better. (As long as I clearly label the >spray container... wouldn't want to spritz > the cat scratching the woodwork with Orthene ...) > > In the future I'd like to preventatively use something >less toxic. My orchid-growing father-in-law > uses neem oil, but I think that is not recommended for >CPs? What do you all use? > > Cheers, > > Laurel > Vermont > >> >> Message: 15 >> Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 14:30:52 -0400 >> From: >> Subject: RE: [CP] pesticides, & listserv search? >> To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" >> >> Message-ID: >><000101c55332$e62ff520$22aba8c0@ad.ess.rutgers.edu> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Dear Laurel, >> >> >> Ortho Systemic Insect Control is now the product name >>for Orthene. >> Yes, it is still available, just not as "Orthene." >> You'll have to re-treat >> your plants every two weeks, as new eggs hatch. Scales >>are the worst, >> you'll have to do four good treatments to kill off their >>population, if you >> have them. -Most other pests die out in two or three >>treatments. The >> poison only works on the bugs you spray directly and on >>the insects that are >> drinking from a well treated leaf (i.e. the babies that >>hatched in the week >> after you sprayed). I don't use wet-able powder--not >>sure how well it >> works, just the concentrate which you dilute with water. >> I use a stick to >> lift each leaf and spray the undersides as well. >> >> >> Dave Evans >> New Jersey, USA >> www.Dangerousplants.com >> >> > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection >around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 19:38:10 -0400 >From: > Subject: RE: [CP] pesticides > To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" > > Message-ID: ><000001c5535d$d44988a0$22aba8c0@ad.ess.rutgers.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Dear Laurel, > > > Keep in mind, you have to apply these types of products >(Ortho > Systemic Insect Control) outside. It is rather like >using spray paint, you > will get some fumes. If you have a couple of plants to >spray, mix up just a > small amount for spraying on the plants as you should >not bother keeping the > diluted mixture, it needs to be freshly made when you >use it. I poor and > rinse the spray bottle of leftover spray into a flower >bed. > > > Good luck, > Dave Evans > New Jersey, USA > www.Dangerousplants.com > > > > -----Original Message----- >From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com >[mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On Behalf > Of L. > Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 5:13 PM > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Subject: [CP] pesticides > > Dave, thanks for the info. D'Amato had said he preferred >wettable powder to > aerosol-type due to > the propellant, but I can see no reason why mixing up >with a liquid > concentrate wouldn't be just > as good if not better. (As long as I clearly label the >spray container... > wouldn't want to spritz > the cat scratching the woodwork with Orthene ...) > > In the future I'd like to preventatively use something >less toxic. My > orchid-growing father-in-law > uses neem oil, but I think that is not recommended for >CPs? What do you all > use? > > Cheers, > > Laurel > Vermont > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 21:33:16 EDT >From: ThomBroGar@aol.com > Subject: [CP] Re: pesticides, & listserv search? > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <158.5061e52e.2faec65c@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > In a message dated 5/7/2005 3:02:12 PM Eastern Standard >Time, > Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: > >> pesticides, &listserv search? >> > > I used Orthene on my Sarracenias last summer for Exrya >moths (nasty, > persistent buggers) at a rate of half to 1/4 recommended >application. I got distorted > twisted late season pitchers some eradication and this >year to my dismay some > of the newly emerging pitchers are twisted and distorted >as well and YES I > still have the darn moths.(actually the >larvae/caterpillars) I also stripped all > the pitchers off all the plants this winter and burned >them. I think this > helped greatly reduce the numbers. > > I have introduced a biological control this season as >well that is found in > bog ecosystems, a green crab spider of sorts that hide >in the mouths of > pitchers. The spiders should dispatch the female moths >as they fly from pitcher to > pitcher to lay their eggs. > > Has anyone done any experimenting with Neem oil? Also >sold as SureFine. It is > sold as an environmental, friendly, horticultural, oil >of sorts that is not > cool weather dependent. It should work nicely on scale >and mealy bugs. I have > used it on mealy bugs on other plants with good success. > > Brooks Garcia, Atlanta > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 22:30:13 -0400 >From: MJ and John Arnaldi > Subject: [CP] Botrytis and fans in tanks I have had a >large terrarium > for four years. I Have set up a ventilation system >using a small > computer fan to exhaust the terrarium. 80% of cover is >glass, but > there is a strip of plastic on the back part of the >cover. I cut a > hole in that for the fan and attached the fan on the >top of the cover > over the hole. The fan runs off of an AC adapter. >I have two air > intake tubes that penetrate each of the back corners of >the cover and > bring air into the terrarium. I have had no problems >with fogging or > mold. However, sometimes after feedings the drosera >leaves may become > moldy with a big white fuzzy ball of mold over the food >remains on the > leaf. This usually happens when the food item was >bigger than what the > leaf could digest. This mold has never spread or caused >any other > problems for me. Good luck! -- John John Arnaldi >Jesus, Prince of > Peace Institute http://www.jesusprinceofpeace.org >Temple Terrace, > Florida > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: ><1B3CE9A2-BF69-11D9-804E-00112432E5D2@ixpres.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; >format=flowed > > I have had a large (75 gallon) terrarium for four years. >I Have set up > a ventilation system using a small computer fan to >exhaust the > terrarium. 80% of cover is glass, but there is a strip >of plastic on > the back part of the cover. I cut a hole in that for the >fan and > attached the fan on the top of the cover over the hole. > The fan runs > off of an AC adapter. I have two air intake tubes that >penetrate each > of the back corners of the cover and bring air into the >terrarium. For > the most part, I have had no problems with fogging or >mold. At one > point, I thought the top of the terrarium lid didn't fit >tight enough, > so I used a foam rubber backed tape to allow for a >tighter fit of the > glass lids. Immediately, the glass started fogging and >within a week I > saw more mold on old leaves. I removed the tape, and >everything went > back to normal again. So, apparently in my set up, >intake of air from a > loose fitting top is also valuable and necessary, even >with two > separate air vents. > > Sometimes after feedings the drosera leaves may become >moldy with a big > white fuzzy ball of mold over the food on the leaf. This >usually > happens when the food item was bigger than what the leaf >could digest. > This mold has never spread or caused any other problems >for me. > > When I first assembled this terrarium four years ago, I >did have an > algae bloom in the water reservoir within the first two >weeks. I used > a diluted solution of Physan added to the 10 gallons or >so of water in > the reservoir. I never had any further problems and I >have never used > any chemical fungicides since. I did add some Root >Shield (trichoderma) > during the second year, but I wasn't sure if it helped >as things were > doing pretty well anyway. > > As far as pests go, I have had aphids twice and just >suspended flea > collars over the plants that had them. All the aphids >disappeared > within a week. I left the flea collars in there for >about two weeks > after the aphids disappeared. > > Twice I noticed white threads of fungus growing in some >of the live > sphagnum. I just removed the affected moss and threw it >away. No > problems since. > > I use no chemical fertilizers. > > Good luck! > > -- John > > John Arnaldi > Jesus, Prince of Peace Institute > http://www.jesusprinceofpeace.org > Temple Terrace, Florida > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 21:53:50 -0700 >From: "owns6196" > Subject: [CP] Introduction > To: > Message-ID: ><02db01c55389$ed27f150$01a5a043@home3lzfq64l1j> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; >charset=iso-8859-1; > reply-type=original > > Hello my name is David Owings and I just got my first >Venus Fly Trap today > my brother purchased it for me from a plant nursery it's >a small fly trap > but it has two more immature traps coming up from below >and 1 or 2 traps > that are near to maturity so my new plant friend will do >very well in my > home we have alot of house flys for it to feed on and >eventually when it > gets bigger maybe I can feed my little brother to it :-) > I am 40 years old > and I live with my Mom I take care of her she's a senior >citizen. My > brother he's 38 and he lives with me and our mother he >cares for her too my > doing home repairs and cooking for her. I have 4 >ferrets, 1 dwarf hamster > and 1 cat none of them can access my fly trap or other >plants I have. I > have one question is it advisiable to put a piece of >fruit close to the fly > trap so it will attract fruit flies? > > > Sincerely > David Owings > >Ferrets have a way of weaseling their way into your heart >and once they do > they never leave and I wouldn't have it any other way > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.6 - Release >Date: 5/6/2005 > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 02:19:46 EDT >From: HmrTheHrmt@aol.com > Subject: [CP] Avis Commercial > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Surprised no one else has mentioned this, but I just saw >a commercial for > Avis, a very short 15 second one. Two women are touring >a garden, leaving the > cactus patch. the one says to the other that this >garden has the most > exquisite Venus Flytraps. The other lady reaches down >to touch a VFT that is next > to the path, and rapidly pulls her hand away as the trap >closes rapidly. > What makes it so astounding is that the traps are a good >foot long, easily large > enough to snap the woman's hand off. Obviously the > garden has been > fertilizing their VFTs with steroids! > > TTFN > > > Hamir the Hermit > > > "We're busy doing nothing, working all day through, > We're trying to find lots of things not to do. > We're busy going nowhere, isn't it such a crime? > We'd like to be unhappy, but we never do have the >time." > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 01:41:42 -0700 (PDT) >From: Sean Samia > Subject: [CP] I'm back! > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: ><20050508084142.95685.qmail@web30115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hello,Finally got a computer again that works.I'm here >for anyone who needs help on growing the Petiolaris >Complex.Also,Zen master in lighting knowledge and >micro-inviroments habitats.I just recently obtained a 5.0 >digital camera and will be photographing my Petiolaris >collection.The best plants and hybrids out of thousands I >have grown from seed.Also,I have hybrid D.Caduca with the >other petiolaris form and will be releasing the results >very soon.Petiolaris Sean(motor-mouth) > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection >around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 05:04:10 -0700 (PDT) >From: JIM MATEOSKY > Subject: [CP] new plants entering & prevenative spaying? > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: ><20050508120410.51020.qmail@web53302.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hi, > > I have a green house wih a bunch (1000s) of orchids and >nepenthes (which I am new to). I have heard too many >horror stories recently about one new plant contaminating >the rest etc.. > > What do you spay plants with as a preventitive measure? > Agro-micyn (spelled wrong?) for orchids? And for >nepentes? How do you protect the water in the pitchers, >won't it mess them up? > > Thanks in advance, you all are so increadable helpful > > > Jim Matesoky > jmateosky@yahoo.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 10:37:48 -0400 >From: "Steven R. Currie" > Subject: [CP] Butterworts > To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > > Message-ID: <427E243C.7070203@currieweb.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; >format=flowed > > Has anyone ever seen pinguicula vulgaris for sale? > Does anyone raise > it? I thought vulgris meant "common" but it seems to be >hard to find. > > Steve > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 11:48:06 -0400 >From: "Michael Hunt" > Subject: [CP] pesticides, & listserv search? > To: > Message-ID: ><000501c553e5$55798290$9d90aa18@ibm2jtbat2tgab> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; >charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > I seem to have a pest problem that is rapidly growing >bad. I am not sure but > think I have both > aphids and mealybugs and possibly something else. I want >to bring out the > big guns before things > get any worse (I have already lost my beloved N. ovata). >Can you all refresh > me on what is the > state of the art for pesticides these days and where a >good place for > purchase is? I seem to > remember that D'Amato's top recommendation, Orthene, is >no longer available. > I am looking for a > wettable powder agent. > > I have seen a similar topic recently, I think, but at >the time I was not > paying attention. > Unfortunately the listserv archives only seem to allow >searching up to March > 2003. Is there a > workaround for this, or could it be fixed, or is there >another chunk of > archives hosted elsewhere? > I ask with complete appreciation of Barry, I believe it >is? (et al?) for > maintaining and running > the listserv, often a difficult and thankless task. > > Cheers, > > Laurel > Vermont > > > > Laurel, > > What I am writing here pertains to Sarracenia, however >the "Top Guns" are > mentioned for most all cp to. > > The pesticide that makes up WP orthene is acephate. > Orthene has the largest > amount of acephate in it for horticultural grade use and >is still available > to commercial growers at least in Florida. It also >smells like rotting > cabbage. At stores like Home Depot acpehate is sold in >a oil (petro) mix in > various forms. As the actual pesticide makes up very >little on the > concentrate and the listing on the green Ortho >containers list a likely > amount of inert ingredients that make up a average of >about 97% these > products are not overall suitable yet readily available >to the retail > customer. As you state you are looking for a WP >(wettable powder) and these > are the best but again they are not sold to the retail >market. For the > trade grower they are expensive and the quantity much to >large for the > typical type of use a homeowner or hobbyist would need. >The product does > have a life span just as medicine. The applications >must be done correctly > so even purchasing the large trade amounts is very >difficult to calibrate > for small spray tank use. > > The products I have used from stores such as Home Depot >have in fact > included some of oil or petro based products. I have >really had no > problems with Isotox or Orthoenex both made by Ortho. > As the name suggest > Isotox is a more powerful product with 8% of acephate >compare to Orthoenex > at 4%. Always use the least amount fist. As for the WP >power form I use as > a last resort at low application rates. I stress that I >like none of these > products and when I say I don't have much of a problem >with any of them, all > effect the plants. If the calibration isn't correct the >burning of the > leaves is certain and possible loss of plants. > > But if you do nothing to control the problem most likely >the plants will > weaken and die anyway. > > Malathion is another product that is available as a WP, >though not a > systemic as the acephate so it is more of a direct >effect but no control for > future protection until applied again. Malathion is also >available as a > dust, that is useful . > > Aphids are easy to control even though they can quickly >get out of control > and ants spread them so they are also part of the aphid >problem. For these > pest I would use a dish soap mixture and different types >are most likely in > the archives or can be searched on the web for >biological friendly way to > kill them. Some will mention ladybugs, and they work >but also the plants > trap them. I find them useless outside as they will >likely fly away or be > killed off by various things. Inside a greenhouse I >might try them or > praying mantis. Also there are some predatory mites >that attack some > insects but again I have yet to try these. I like a >biological friendly > product over any chemical and advise you to fully seek >out these. A web > search will likely lead to different types used on >plants but not cp, > however they are worth a look and trial on more common >plants than a N. > ovata. > Mealybugs have the white fluffy stuff on their backs, & >scales are tough > customers to get rid of. None of the soapy mixtures >will have much of a > long term effect in getting them. They are a severe pest >to loss of plants. > Also don't forget the mealy bugs species are root types >and they are a %#@! > to treat in the soil. Root mealies enjoy peat mixes very >much. Compared to > other potting mediums studies show that the root mealies >prefer peat the > more peat the more root mealie friendly. > > > The "Top Guns" I use are Marathon and Talstar. > > Marathon is another only horticultural trade product >available to the > commercial grower. It comes in a WP or glandules. It >is much more friendly > to the environment than the products I list above. In >fact as soon as it > dries its safe for re-entry in a open outside area. > The chemical is Imidacloprid . This is Marathon. > Imidacloprid is used for many applications that many >may be familiar with. > I think pet owners will know this Imidacloprid in the >flea & tick killed > products sold as Frontline & Advantage. > Imidacloprid is a pesticide and as such must be given >respect as to > handling and application. > > The home owner is lucky because Marathon is available at >Lowes or any garden > retailer that stocks Bayer Advanced garden products. The >ones in the blue > bottles. Marketed under several types of use. > > http://www.bayeradvanced.com/index.cfm > > I use Rose & Flower Insect Killer Ready-To-Spray, Rose & >Flower Insect > Killer Concentrate, Tree & Shrub Insect Control - all >sold under the Bayer > Advanced Garden trade name. All contain imidacloprid in >smaller amounts than > the Marathon. > The Tree & Shrub Insect control is a in ground >application and proper for > pot drenches. > Imidacloprid is a excellent systemic pesticide that has >low risk when used > according to directions. Some of these products are >hooked directly to your > garden hose therefore unless you have a powerful pump >for RO water tap water > will be required to spray and its best to hook it up a >water breaker at the > end of the hose so the force won't bust the plants up. > A hand held sprayer > on the bottle is sold for small problems. > > Another excellent product is Talstar (trade name). The >pesticide is Bifen > available in granules and concentrate mixed with water. > Its not a Wettable > powder but it is truly a excellent and environmental >friendly pesticide that > offers systemic protection. Bifen is sold under several >trade names some > available to the retail consumer in better garden >centers or nurseries. > > The above listed pesticides, Imidacioprid & Bifen offer >a broad spectrum > insect control and the list is large of the types of >bugs listed. They will > likely control almost all the bugs that bother cp. >But.... they don't do a > good job on caterpillars or grub larva. > > A third powerful but again environmental friendly over >other pesticides is > Conserve SE (trade name) is the pesticide Spinosad. It >effects the target > insects however beneficials are not bothered (such as >honey bees, ladybugs), > Spinosad is the best pesticide I have ever used to >control caterpillars on > anything. Caterpillars many people do not know are a >huge pest to > Sarracenia, in habitat and can be in collections, but >that's another story. > Spinosad Controls thrips rapidly and maintains control >of them for a while. > Spinosad doesn't work on aphids which is surprising as >it does control a > host of other sucking insects. For other use it is >extremely effective > against fleas in a lawn or yard application and ants. > Grubs are controlled > and again they are another often over looked problem of >cp because they > range in size and live in the potting medium so are >unseen because they are > active at night. The grubs are mainly beetle larva. >Spinosad applied as a > drench is effective on rhizome boring insects, and wasp >can be included in > insects that bore into rhizomes to lay eggs. > > Spinosad (Conserve SE) cannot be compared to the >pesticide BT for > caterpillar use. BT is a good short term solution until >the new eggs are > laid or hatch, but Spinosad really offers a superior >longer solution. > > The various wasp is another example of a insect that >most people don't count > on as a major out door pest to rhizomes. The holes are >small as are the > larva. Any hole bored into a rhizome or a plants foliage >allows disease to > follow. A plant under attack from aphids can offer many >more problems than > just killing them. Some people will use a soapy mix to >smother the aphids > and then a month later don't understand why the plant >has some sort of > illness and marked leaves. The aphid is the vector >biting a diseased plant > to suck its juices and then is carried to another plant >(your plants) by > ants to produce honey dew for the ant colony. Ants do >the same with scale > and mealy bugs that they farm. Your plant is bitten by >the aphid and the > disease may move into your plant offering larger >problems than the actual > aphid infestation. > > Above all read all directions for any pesticide you >select and follow those > directions on how to properly use, store, & dispose of. >Make sure the > pesticide is applicable to your surroundings. Don't use >them in doors by > any means and that means a enclosed terrarium. Be safe >at all times. > Understand the calibration rates and what you are mixing >as a spreader > (water type), if you mix pesticides together make sure >they are compatible. > Read carefully when to reapply so that you don't use it >to much. One > application will seldom take care of a minor to severe >problem. The best > time to treat a plant is the first sign of pest not >after they are well > established. Some may view a pest and say well there >are only a few so its > ok. What a mistake. If you see a few no doubt there >are many or thousands > more you either don't see yet or have yet to hatch. > Some pest like spider > mite or thrips damage isn't seen until infestation is >difficult to control > until the climate changes to make it unfavorable for >them. > > Take Care, > > Mike > St. Petersburg Fl > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 11:50:29 -0400 >From: "Michael Hunt" > Subject: [CP] Venus Flytrap TV ad > To: > Message-ID: ><000901c553e5$a8ccd6e0$9d90aa18@ibm2jtbat2tgab> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; >charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > I just saw a short, maybe 30 second ad on TV from Avis >Car Rental which > showed 2 woman in a botanical garden looking at a fake >large Venus Flytrap > and One woman says "It likes you". > >First time I have ever seen a TV ad where the Venus Fly >Trap was the star > of the ad. > > Mike > ST. Petersburg Fl > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > End of Cp Digest, Vol 24, Issue 8 > ********************************* John T. Manion, Director of Education Coastal Maine Botanical Gardens PO Box 234, Boothbay, ME 04537 Phone (207) 633-4333 Fax (207) 633-2366 jmanion@mainegardens.org http://www.mainegardens.org/ ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Sun May 8 21:30:31 2005 Subject: [CP] Drosera stratification question Dear John, It is meant to indicate that no stratification is believed to be required for the seed to germinate. Since it is from Cuba and they don't get temps below the 40's F very often, it would seem unlikely that any species from there would need much, if any, stratification. Of course, montane locations could be bit a different regarding temps, but _D. intermedia_ is usually a lowlander. My Cuban _D. intermedia_ are very small, even the flowers only get a few inches off the ground. They did go dormant over winter, but only formed buds for about six weeks. They broke their dormancy without being exposed to any stratifing temps, being between about 65 and 72 F. daily--as we seem to be able to expect of a tropical form of a temperate species. Dave Evans P.S. John, you have edit your reply emails--if you are receiving the *digest mode* CP-list. Otherwise you end up sending all of yesterdays CP-listserv emails back to everyone on the list who already got theirs yesterday... -----Original Message----- Of jmanion@mainegardens.org Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 3:19 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com I hope the answer to this question isn't so obvious that I'm making a fool of myself for asking this...but - on the seed packet of D. intermedia (Cuba) I receieved from ICPS, it says "no stratification." Am I correct in thinking this means I do not need to stratify before sowing? I just wanted to makes sure this didn't mean it had not been stratified and that I need to. Thanks, John ################### From: owns6196 at comcast.net (owns6196) Date: Sun May 8 23:33:28 2005 Subject: [CP] New to carnivores plants Hello everyone out there I am very new to carnivores plants I got my Venus Fly Trap yesterday and I need to know a couple things is a potting soil that has peat5 moss and forest leaf litter compost good for use in transplanting my venus fly trap who I named Milo for the Venus De Milo statue in Italy. One thing I need to know is it advisible to use a piece of fruit to lure fruit flies to my fly trap? Sincerely David Owings Ferrets have a way of weaseling their way into your heart and once they do they never leave and I wouldn't have it any other way -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.6 - Release Date: 5/6/2005 ################### From: carl.mazur at ncdsb.com (Mazur, Carl) Date: Mon May 9 06:36:39 2005 Subject: [CP] S. alata rescue in Louisiana Greetings List, If any of you live near the Abita Springs area of Louisiana and are interested in rescuing some S. alata plants from an impending bulldozing, please contact Mr. Leo Sanchez. He has arranged with the landowners for written permissions to access the property to rescue plants. He has done this on his own as a concerned citizen (thanks again Leo). Please contact Leo directly to make arrangements. His email is DeSanleo@aol.com or his home phone is 985-809-0141. Do not contact the ICPS for information or details about the site... we are not involved in this rescue, but rather are making it public to aid in Leo's efforts. "I was a little surprised today to find that a number of these brave little plants are growing through the bulldozer tracks from the last clearing. That is one hardy little booger. Someone was out there during the week and piled a lotta brush and is doing more clearing." A guote from Leo. Carl Mazur ICPS President ################### From: MHowlett at hcp4.net (Howlett, Mike) Date: Mon May 9 07:17:01 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: S. alata nigrapurpurea Looking for this variety from Leon County, Texas. I have a CP program this Saturday, and being as it is a Texas native, I would really like to have this one to show. Anyone have one they can spare to ship out this week? Thanks! Mike Howlett Naturalist, Herpetoculturist & Carnivorous Plant Enthusiast Jesse H. Jones Park & Nature Center 20634 Kenswick Drive Humble, TX 77338 281-446-8588 mhowlett@hcp4.net www.hcp4.net/jones ################### From: MHowlett at hcp4.net (Howlett, Mike) Date: Mon May 9 07:26:22 2005 Subject: [CP] S. alata nigrapurpurea Small oversight: please reply directly to me to my last post. <<< Looking for this variety from Leon County, Texas. I have a CP program this Saturday, and being as it is a Texas native, I would really like to have this one to show. Anyone have one they can spare to ship out this week? Thanks! Mike Howlett Naturalist, Herpetoculturist & Carnivorous Plant Enthusiast Jesse H. Jones Park & Nature Center 20634 Kenswick Drive Humble, TX 77338 281-446-8588 mhowlett@hcp4.net www.hcp4.net/jones >>> Mike Howlett Naturalist, Herpetoculturist & Carnivorous Plant Enthusiast Jesse H. Jones Park & Nature Center 20634 Kenswick Drive Humble, TX 77338 281-446-8588 mhowlett@hcp4.net www.hcp4.net/jones -----Original Message----- Behalf Of Cp-request@omnisterra.com Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 2:05 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Send Cp mailing list submissions to Cp@omnisterra.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to Cp-request@omnisterra.com You can reach the person managing the list at Cp-owner@omnisterra.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Cp digest..." CP Mailing list Today's Topics: 1. RE: CP conference + trade (Tre Bond) 2. pesticides (L.) 3. RE: pesticides (dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu) 4. Re: pesticides, & listserv search? (ThomBroGar@aol.com) 5. Botrytis and fans in tanks I have had a large terrarium for four years. I Have set up a ventilation system using a small computer fan to exhaust the terrarium. 80% of cover is glass, but there is a strip of plastic on the back part of the cover. I cut a hole in that for the fan and attached the fan on the top of the cover over the hole. The fan runs off of an AC adapter. I have two air intake tubes that penetrate each of the back corners of the cover and bring air into the terrarium. I have had no problems with fogging or mold. However, sometimes after feedings the drosera leaves may become moldy with a big white fuzzy ball of mold over the food remains on the leaf. This usually happens when the food item was bigger than what the leaf could digest. This mold has never spread or caused any other problems for me. Good luck! -- John John Arnaldi Jesus, Prince of Peace Institute http://www.jesusprinceofpeace.org Temple Terrace, Florida (MJ and John Arnaldi) 6. Introduction (owns6196) 7. Avis Commercial (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) 8. I'm back! (Sean Samia) 9. new plants entering & prevenative spaying? (JIM MATEOSKY) 10. Butterworts (Steven R. Currie) 11. pesticides, & listserv search? (Michael Hunt) 12. Venus Flytrap TV ad (Michael Hunt) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <20050507201507.26635.qmail@web53301.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Yes I was confused about the date. I found the email and it said 2006. Sorry about that. Anyway I have some D. peltata seed to trade. Also Could anyone give me some informatin on germinating and caring for D. stenopetala? The only site that I can find is in german which I do not happen to speak and the online translation comes out very badly. Tre Bond --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour ------------------------------ Message: 2 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <20050507211250.64506.qmail@web30413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dave, thanks for the info. D'Amato had said he preferred wettable powder to aerosol-type due to the propellant, but I can see no reason why mixing up with a liquid concentrate wouldn't be just as good if not better. (As long as I clearly label the spray container... wouldn't want to spritz the cat scratching the woodwork with Orthene ...) In the future I'd like to preventatively use something less toxic. My orchid-growing father-in-law uses neem oil, but I think that is not recommended for CPs? What do you all use? Cheers, Laurel Vermont > > Message: 15 > Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 14:30:52 -0400 > From: > Subject: RE: [CP] pesticides, & listserv search? > To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" > Message-ID: <000101c55332$e62ff520$22aba8c0@ad.ess.rutgers.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Dear Laurel, > > > Ortho Systemic Insect Control is now the product name for Orthene. > Yes, it is still available, just not as "Orthene." You'll have to > re-treat your plants every two weeks, as new eggs hatch. Scales are > the worst, you'll have to do four good treatments to kill off their > population, if you have them. -Most other pests die out in two or > three treatments. The poison only works on the bugs you spray > directly and on the insects that are drinking from a well treated leaf > (i.e. the babies that hatched in the week after you sprayed). I don't > use wet-able powder--not sure how well it works, just the concentrate > which you dilute with water. I use a stick to lift each leaf and spray the undersides as well. > > > Dave Evans > New Jersey, USA > www.Dangerousplants.com > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 3 To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" Message-ID: <000001c5535d$d44988a0$22aba8c0@ad.ess.rutgers.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Laurel, Keep in mind, you have to apply these types of products (Ortho Systemic Insect Control) outside. It is rather like using spray paint, you will get some fumes. If you have a couple of plants to spray, mix up just a small amount for spraying on the plants as you should not bother keeping the diluted mixture, it needs to be freshly made when you use it. I poor and rinse the spray bottle of leftover spray into a flower bed. Good luck, Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Behalf Of L. Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2005 5:13 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Dave, thanks for the info. D'Amato had said he preferred wettable powder to aerosol-type due to the propellant, but I can see no reason why mixing up with a liquid concentrate wouldn't be just as good if not better. (As long as I clearly label the spray container... wouldn't want to spritz the cat scratching the woodwork with Orthene ...) In the future I'd like to preventatively use something less toxic. My orchid-growing father-in-law uses neem oil, but I think that is not recommended for CPs? What do you all use? Cheers, Laurel Vermont ------------------------------ Message: 4 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <158.5061e52e.2faec65c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 5/7/2005 3:02:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: > pesticides, &listserv search? > I used Orthene on my Sarracenias last summer for Exrya moths (nasty, persistent buggers) at a rate of half to 1/4 recommended application. I got distorted twisted late season pitchers some eradication and this year to my dismay some of the newly emerging pitchers are twisted and distorted as well and YES I still have the darn moths.(actually the larvae/caterpillars) I also stripped all the pitchers off all the plants this winter and burned them. I think this helped greatly reduce the numbers. I have introduced a biological control this season as well that is found in bog ecosystems, a green crab spider of sorts that hide in the mouths of pitchers. The spiders should dispatch the female moths as they fly from pitcher to pitcher to lay their eggs. Has anyone done any experimenting with Neem oil? Also sold as SureFine. It is sold as an environmental, friendly, horticultural, oil of sorts that is not cool weather dependent. It should work nicely on scale and mealy bugs. I have used it on mealy bugs on other plants with good success. Brooks Garcia, Atlanta ------------------------------ Message: 5 for four years. I Have set up a ventilation system using a small computer fan to exhaust the terrarium. 80% of cover is glass, but there is a strip of plastic on the back part of the cover. I cut a hole in that for the fan and attached the fan on the top of the cover over the hole. The fan runs off of an AC adapter. I have two air intake tubes that penetrate each of the back corners of the cover and bring air into the terrarium. I have had no problems with fogging or mold. However, sometimes after feedings the drosera leaves may become moldy with a big white fuzzy ball of mold over the food remains on the leaf. This usually happens when the food item was bigger than what the leaf could digest. This mold has never spread or caused any other problems for me. Good luck! -- John John Arnaldi Jesus, Prince of Peace Institute http://www.jesusprinceofpeace.org Temple Terrace, Florida To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <1B3CE9A2-BF69-11D9-804E-00112432E5D2@ixpres.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I have had a large (75 gallon) terrarium for four years. I Have set up a ventilation system using a small computer fan to exhaust the terrarium. 80% of cover is glass, but there is a strip of plastic on the back part of the cover. I cut a hole in that for the fan and attached the fan on the top of the cover over the hole. The fan runs off of an AC adapter. I have two air intake tubes that penetrate each of the back corners of the cover and bring air into the terrarium. For the most part, I have had no problems with fogging or mold. At one point, I thought the top of the terrarium lid didn't fit tight enough, so I used a foam rubber backed tape to allow for a tighter fit of the glass lids. Immediately, the glass started fogging and within a week I saw more mold on old leaves. I removed the tape, and everything went back to normal again. So, apparently in my set up, intake of air from a loose fitting top is also valuable and necessary, even with two separate air vents. Sometimes after feedings the drosera leaves may become moldy with a big white fuzzy ball of mold over the food on the leaf. This usually happens when the food item was bigger than what the leaf could digest. This mold has never spread or caused any other problems for me. When I first assembled this terrarium four years ago, I did have an algae bloom in the water reservoir within the first two weeks. I used a diluted solution of Physan added to the 10 gallons or so of water in the reservoir. I never had any further problems and I have never used any chemical fungicides since. I did add some Root Shield (trichoderma) during the second year, but I wasn't sure if it helped as things were doing pretty well anyway. As far as pests go, I have had aphids twice and just suspended flea collars over the plants that had them. All the aphids disappeared within a week. I left the flea collars in there for about two weeks after the aphids disappeared. Twice I noticed white threads of fungus growing in some of the live sphagnum. I just removed the affected moss and threw it away. No problems since. I use no chemical fertilizers. Good luck! -- John John Arnaldi Jesus, Prince of Peace Institute http://www.jesusprinceofpeace.org Temple Terrace, Florida ------------------------------ Message: 6 To: Message-ID: <02db01c55389$ed27f150$01a5a043@home3lzfq64l1j> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Hello my name is David Owings and I just got my first Venus Fly Trap today my brother purchased it for me from a plant nursery it's a small fly trap but it has two more immature traps coming up from below and 1 or 2 traps that are near to maturity so my new plant friend will do very well in my home we have alot of house flys for it to feed on and eventually when it gets bigger maybe I can feed my little brother to it :-) I am 40 years old and I live with my Mom I take care of her she's a senior citizen. My brother he's 38 and he lives with me and our mother he cares for her too my doing home repairs and cooking for her. I have 4 ferrets, 1 dwarf hamster and 1 cat none of them can access my fly trap or other plants I have. I have one question is it advisiable to put a piece of fruit close to the fly trap so it will attract fruit flies? Sincerely David Owings Ferrets have a way of weaseling their way into your heart and once they do they never leave and I wouldn't have it any other way -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.6 - Release Date: 5/6/2005 ------------------------------ Message: 7 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Surprised no one else has mentioned this, but I just saw a commercial for Avis, a very short 15 second one. Two women are touring a garden, leaving the cactus patch. the one says to the other that this garden has the most exquisite Venus Flytraps. The other lady reaches down to touch a VFT that is next to the path, and rapidly pulls her hand away as the trap closes rapidly. What makes it so astounding is that the traps are a good foot long, easily large enough to snap the woman's hand off. Obviously the garden has been fertilizing their VFTs with steroids! TTFN Hamir the Hermit "We're busy doing nothing, working all day through, We're trying to find lots of things not to do. We're busy going nowhere, isn't it such a crime? We'd like to be unhappy, but we never do have the time." ------------------------------ Message: 8 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <20050508084142.95685.qmail@web30115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello,Finally got a computer again that works.I'm here for anyone who needs help on growing the Petiolaris Complex.Also,Zen master in lighting knowledge and micro-inviroments habitats.I just recently obtained a 5.0 digital camera and will be photographing my Petiolaris collection.The best plants and hybrids out of thousands I have grown from seed.Also,I have hybrid D.Caduca with the other petiolaris form and will be releasing the results very soon.Petiolaris Sean(motor-mouth) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 9 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <20050508120410.51020.qmail@web53302.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, I have a green house wih a bunch (1000s) of orchids and nepenthes (which I am new to). I have heard too many horror stories recently about one new plant contaminating the rest etc.. What do you spay plants with as a preventitive measure? Agro-micyn (spelled wrong?) for orchids? And for nepentes? How do you protect the water in the pitchers, won't it mess them up? Thanks in advance, you all are so increadable helpful Jim Matesoky jmateosky@yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 10 To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Message-ID: <427E243C.7070203@currieweb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Has anyone ever seen pinguicula vulgaris for sale? Does anyone raise it? I thought vulgris meant "common" but it seems to be hard to find. Steve ------------------------------ Message: 11 To: Message-ID: <000501c553e5$55798290$9d90aa18@ibm2jtbat2tgab> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I seem to have a pest problem that is rapidly growing bad. I am not sure but think I have both aphids and mealybugs and possibly something else. I want to bring out the big guns before things get any worse (I have already lost my beloved N. ovata). Can you all refresh me on what is the state of the art for pesticides these days and where a good place for purchase is? I seem to remember that D'Amato's top recommendation, Orthene, is no longer available. I am looking for a wettable powder agent. I have seen a similar topic recently, I think, but at the time I was not paying attention. Unfortunately the listserv archives only seem to allow searching up to March 2003. Is there a workaround for this, or could it be fixed, or is there another chunk of archives hosted elsewhere? I ask with complete appreciation of Barry, I believe it is? (et al?) for maintaining and running the listserv, often a difficult and thankless task. Cheers, Laurel Vermont Laurel, What I am writing here pertains to Sarracenia, however the "Top Guns" are mentioned for most all cp to. The pesticide that makes up WP orthene is acephate. Orthene has the largest amount of acephate in it for horticultural grade use and is still available to commercial growers at least in Florida. It also smells like rotting cabbage. At stores like Home Depot acpehate is sold in a oil (petro) mix in various forms. As the actual pesticide makes up very little on the concentrate and the listing on the green Ortho containers list a likely amount of inert ingredients that make up a average of about 97% these products are not overall suitable yet readily available to the retail customer. As you state you are looking for a WP (wettable powder) and these are the best but again they are not sold to the retail market. For the trade grower they are expensive and the quantity much to large for the typical type of use a homeowner or hobbyist would need. The product does have a life span just as medicine. The applications must be done correctly so even purchasing the large trade amounts is very difficult to calibrate for small spray tank use. The products I have used from stores such as Home Depot have in fact included some of oil or petro based products. I have really had no problems with Isotox or Orthoenex both made by Ortho. As the name suggest Isotox is a more powerful product with 8% of acephate compare to Orthoenex at 4%. Always use the least amount fist. As for the WP power form I use as a last resort at low application rates. I stress that I like none of these products and when I say I don't have much of a problem with any of them, all effect the plants. If the calibration isn't correct the burning of the leaves is certain and possible loss of plants. But if you do nothing to control the problem most likely the plants will weaken and die anyway. Malathion is another product that is available as a WP, though not a systemic as the acephate so it is more of a direct effect but no control for future protection until applied again. Malathion is also available as a dust, that is useful . Aphids are easy to control even though they can quickly get out of control and ants spread them so they are also part of the aphid problem. For these pest I would use a dish soap mixture and different types are most likely in the archives or can be searched on the web for biological friendly way to kill them. Some will mention ladybugs, and they work but also the plants trap them. I find them useless outside as they will likely fly away or be killed off by various things. Inside a greenhouse I might try them or praying mantis. Also there are some predatory mites that attack some insects but again I have yet to try these. I like a biological friendly product over any chemical and advise you to fully seek out these. A web search will likely lead to different types used on plants but not cp, however they are worth a look and trial on more common plants than a N. ovata. Mealybugs have the white fluffy stuff on their backs, & scales are tough customers to get rid of. None of the soapy mixtures will have much of a long term effect in getting them. They are a severe pest to loss of plants. Also don't forget the mealy bugs species are root types and they are a %#@! to treat in the soil. Root mealies enjoy peat mixes very much. Compared to other potting mediums studies show that the root mealies prefer peat the more peat the more root mealie friendly. The "Top Guns" I use are Marathon and Talstar. Marathon is another only horticultural trade product available to the commercial grower. It comes in a WP or glandules. It is much more friendly to the environment than the products I list above. In fact as soon as it dries its safe for re-entry in a open outside area. The chemical is Imidacloprid . This is Marathon. Imidacloprid is used for many applications that many may be familiar with. I think pet owners will know this Imidacloprid in the flea & tick killed products sold as Frontline & Advantage. Imidacloprid is a pesticide and as such must be given respect as to handling and application. The home owner is lucky because Marathon is available at Lowes or any garden retailer that stocks Bayer Advanced garden products. The ones in the blue bottles. Marketed under several types of use. http://www.bayeradvanced.com/index.cfm I use Rose & Flower Insect Killer Ready-To-Spray, Rose & Flower Insect Killer Concentrate, Tree & Shrub Insect Control - all sold under the Bayer Advanced Garden trade name. All contain imidacloprid in smaller amounts than the Marathon. The Tree & Shrub Insect control is a in ground application and proper for pot drenches. Imidacloprid is a excellent systemic pesticide that has low risk when used according to directions. Some of these products are hooked directly to your garden hose therefore unless you have a powerful pump for RO water tap water will be required to spray and its best to hook it up a water breaker at the end of the hose so the force won't bust the plants up. A hand held sprayer on the bottle is sold for small problems. Another excellent product is Talstar (trade name). The pesticide is Bifen available in granules and concentrate mixed with water. Its not a Wettable powder but it is truly a excellent and environmental friendly pesticide that offers systemic protection. Bifen is sold under several trade names some available to the retail consumer in better garden centers or nurseries. The above listed pesticides, Imidacioprid & Bifen offer a broad spectrum insect control and the list is large of the types of bugs listed. They will likely control almost all the bugs that bother cp. But.... they don't do a good job on caterpillars or grub larva. A third powerful but again environmental friendly over other pesticides is Conserve SE (trade name) is the pesticide Spinosad. It effects the target insects however beneficials are not bothered (such as honey bees, ladybugs), Spinosad is the best pesticide I have ever used to control caterpillars on anything. Caterpillars many people do not know are a huge pest to Sarracenia, in habitat and can be in collections, but that's another story. Spinosad Controls thrips rapidly and maintains control of them for a while. Spinosad doesn't work on aphids which is surprising as it does control a host of other sucking insects. For other use it is extremely effective against fleas in a lawn or yard application and ants. Grubs are controlled and again they are another often over looked problem of cp because they range in size and live in the potting medium so are unseen because they are active at night. The grubs are mainly beetle larva. Spinosad applied as a drench is effective on rhizome boring insects, and wasp can be included in insects that bore into rhizomes to lay eggs. Spinosad (Conserve SE) cannot be compared to the pesticide BT for caterpillar use. BT is a good short term solution until the new eggs are laid or hatch, but Spinosad really offers a superior longer solution. The various wasp is another example of a insect that most people don't count on as a major out door pest to rhizomes. The holes are small as are the larva. Any hole bored into a rhizome or a plants foliage allows disease to follow. A plant under attack from aphids can offer many more problems than just killing them. Some people will use a soapy mix to smother the aphids and then a month later don't understand why the plant has some sort of illness and marked leaves. The aphid is the vector biting a diseased plant to suck its juices and then is carried to another plant (your plants) by ants to produce honey dew for the ant colony. Ants do the same with scale and mealy bugs that they farm. Your plant is bitten by the aphid and the disease may move into your plant offering larger problems than the actual aphid infestation. Above all read all directions for any pesticide you select and follow those directions on how to properly use, store, & dispose of. Make sure the pesticide is applicable to your surroundings. Don't use them in doors by any means and that means a enclosed terrarium. Be safe at all times. Understand the calibration rates and what you are mixing as a spreader (water type), if you mix pesticides together make sure they are compatible. Read carefully when to reapply so that you don't use it to much. One application will seldom take care of a minor to severe problem. The best time to treat a plant is the first sign of pest not after they are well established. Some may view a pest and say well there are only a few so its ok. What a mistake. If you see a few no doubt there are many or thousands more you either don't see yet or have yet to hatch. Some pest like spider mite or thrips damage isn't seen until infestation is difficult to control until the climate changes to make it unfavorable for them. Take Care, Mike St. Petersburg Fl ------------------------------ Message: 12 To: Message-ID: <000901c553e5$a8ccd6e0$9d90aa18@ibm2jtbat2tgab> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I just saw a short, maybe 30 second ad on TV from Avis Car Rental which showed 2 woman in a botanical garden looking at a fake large Venus Flytrap and One woman says "It likes you". First time I have ever seen a TV ad where the Venus Fly Trap was the star of the ad. Mike ST. Petersburg Fl ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com End of Cp Digest, Vol 24, Issue 8 ********************************* ################### From: ClaraVoiAunt at aol.com (ClaraVoiAunt@aol.com) Date: Mon May 9 07:44:00 2005 Subject: [CP] Drosera Stratification hye there John. No such thing as a foolish question. Better to question than to err on the side of ignorance. You are correct, D, intermedia (Cuba) is more on the tropical side and does not need any stratification.I have even had some winter over outside, in a protected area, for 3 years here in zone 8b-9a. Ridhet here in Sonoma County, the heart of Whine Country. Thanc for listening and keep 'em plants grwoin' Lois In a message dated 5/9/2005 7:28:44 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: Message: 1 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" I hope the answer to this question isn't so obvious that I'm making a fool of myself for asking this...but - on the seed packet of D. intermedia (Cuba) I receieved from ICPS, it says "no stratification." Am I correct in thinking this means I do not need to stratify before sowing? I just wanted to makes sure this didn't mean it had not been stratified and that I need to. Thanks, John ################### From: peteluba at prodigy.net (Glenn Petersen) Date: Mon May 9 08:44:40 2005 Subject: [CP] news on nepenthesofthailand.com Marcello, I plan on visiting Thailand next year. Thanks to your website, I will probably be able to see my first Nepenthes in the wild. Thanks! ################### From: JDPDX at aol.com (JDPDX@aol.com) Date: Mon May 9 08:53:19 2005 Subject: [CP] Clean Up Your Listserve Posts! Folks, many of your are posting to the listserve by replying to your email. Many of the e-mail programs copy the entire e-mail to the reply. This is rendering the listserve posts unreadable. Please!, delete old stuff before you send your reply. It was very difficult to even find the new messages in this last posting. ################### From: jifftaylor at yahoo.com (Jennifer Michele Karberg) Date: Mon May 9 08:54:24 2005 Subject: [CP] Contact David Schnell Hi all - I'm new to the CP mailing list. I'm a grad student doing research and restoration with Sarracenia purpurea up in Michigan. I'm wondering if anyone on this list has contact information for David E. Schnell? I"ve written his publisher but gotten no response. I thought perhaps he might be lurking here or someone could put me in touch with him - I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks, Jen Karberg Jennifer M. Taylor PhD Candidate, Michigan Technological University 1400 Townsend Dr. Houghton MI 49930 (906) 370-5325 jifftaylor@yahoo.com ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Mon May 9 09:45:48 2005 Subject: [CP] Stuck on Mars Hey Ron, Don't give up hope for Martian Drosera on those sandy, dusty areas. Sugar sand is a great indicator for fine habitat in the Jersey Pine Barrens. I've nearly gotten stuck in it, myself. (sugar sand on NJ, that is, not on Mars.) :) > > I was reviewing some old maps and discovered, to my interest, that > > Mars has a region called Nepenthes. This name described a > Mars is cold, dry and sandy - not very good growing > conditions for carnivorous plants. In fact, one of our > rovers is currently stuck in the sand, which we're trying to get out. Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Mon May 9 09:47:28 2005 Subject: [CP] New to CP's Welcome aboard the listserv, David. Just one thing, the Venus de Milo is in the Louvre, in Paris. Sorry, am I being nit picky ? Regards David Ahrens ################### From: hpulley at rogers.com (Harry Pulley) Date: Mon May 9 09:57:54 2005 Subject: [CP] New to CP's I don't think you want any leaf compost in the peat used as a medium. Any compost will provide unwanted soil nutrients. Harry :-{} Harry C. Pulley, IV mailto:hpulley@rogers.com http://ca.geocities.com/hpulley4@rogers.com Guelph, Ontario, Canada ################### From: owns6196 at comcast.net (owns6196) Date: Mon May 9 10:00:21 2005 Subject: [CP] New to CP's That's okay I'm the same way with that kind of stuff. Sincerely David Owings Ferrets have a way of weaseling their way into your heart and once they do they never leave and I wouldn't have it any other way > Welcome aboard the listserv, David. > Just one thing, the Venus de Milo is in the Louvre, in Paris. Sorry, am I > being nit picky ? > Regards > David Ahrens -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.6 - Release Date: 5/6/2005 ################### From: h7n at talk21.com (Nigel Hurneyman) Date: Mon May 9 10:11:13 2005 Subject: [CP] Scented Pygmies Further to my previous posting, I now have Drosera enodes in flower and it smells extremely like Drosera dichrosepala. I haven't received any opinions yet about whether Drosera stelliflora is scented or not, so if you have it in flower please give it a sniff. NigelH ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - want a free and easy way to contact your friends online? http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ################### From: barry_burch at excite.com (Barry Burch) Date: Mon May 9 11:45:49 2005 Subject: [CP] N.A.S.C. CP Benefit Auction End Date NACS CP Benefit Auction ends Sunday May, 22 2005. Thanks, Barry _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ################### From: jwdunn5 at netscape.net (jwdunn5@netscape.net) Date: Mon May 9 12:09:21 2005 Subject: [CP] 1st trip to see cp in the wild Hi all I saw my first cp in the wild this weekend. I found S. minor and D. rotundifolia (I think) a friend has a small pond on his property and the perimeter had tons of plants around it. The ground was red with Drosera. It was way cool. I can?t wait to get back out there. I thought that I would share. Jason __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: jifftaylor at yahoo.com (Jennifer Michele Karberg) Date: Mon May 9 12:23:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Opps - DONALD Schnell Sorry - I had a mix up in my earlier e-mail. I'm looking for Donald, not David Schnell, author of "Carnivorous Plants of the United States and Canada". Thanks so much! Jen Karberg Jennifer M. Taylor PhD Candidate, Michigan Technological University 1400 Townsend Dr. Houghton MI 49930 (906) 370-5325 jifftaylor@yahoo.com ################### From: MHowlett at hcp4.net (Howlett, Mike) Date: Mon May 9 12:23:10 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 24, Issue 10 Apologies to everyone. I had wanted to make sure that responses for my request for S. alata nigripurpurea were not taking up that same valuable space on the CP Listserve posts, and had inadvertently failed to edit the message. Just a reminder, there will be a FREE CP program here at Jesse Jones Park in Humble, Texas (just north of Houston) this Saturday morning at 10 a.m. More information can be viewed on the ICPS web site at http://www.carnivorousplants.org/news/newsmain.php. Come join us! Mike Howlett Naturalist, Herpetoculturist & Carnivorous Plant Enthusiast Jesse H. Jones Park & Nature Center 20634 Kenswick Drive Humble, TX 77338 281-446-8588 mhowlett@hcp4.net www.hcp4.net/jones -----Original Message----- Message: 3 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <1a9.3796b45d.2fb0e158@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Folks, many of your are posting to the listserve by replying to your email. Many of the e-mail programs copy the entire e-mail to the reply. This is rendering the listserve posts unreadable. Please!, delete old stuff before you send your reply. It was very difficult to even find the new messages in this last posting. Jeff Portland, OR ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Mon May 9 12:40:35 2005 Subject: [CP] 1st trip to see cp in the wild wait youre in florida right? d. capillaris for sure. --- jwdunn5@netscape.net wrote: > Hi all > > I saw my first cp in the wild this weekend. I found > S. minor and D. rotundifolia (I think) a friend has > a small pond on his property and the perimeter had > tons of plants around it. The ground was red with > Drosera. It was way cool. I can’t wait to get > back out there. I thought that I would share. > > Jason > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Switch to Netscape Internet Service. > As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at > http://isp.netscape.com/register > > Netscape. Just the Net You Need. > > New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer > Search from anywhere on the Web and block those > annoying pop-ups. > Download now at > http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Mon May 9 12:53:31 2005 Subject: [CP] Contact David Schnell Hi Jennifer-- You might get a better response if you ask for DONALD Schell. Gary Kong Jennifer Michele Karberg wrote: >Hi all - I'm new to the CP mailing list. I'm a grad student doing research and restoration with Sarracenia purpurea up in Michigan. I'm wondering if anyone on this list has contact information for David E. Schnell? I"ve written his publisher but gotten no response. I thought perhaps he might be lurking here or someone could put me in touch with him - I'd greatly appreciate it. > >Thanks, Jen Karberg > > >Jennifer M. Taylor > >PhD Candidate, Michigan Technological University >1400 Townsend Dr. >Houghton MI 49930 > >(906) 370-5325 >jifftaylor@yahoo.com > > >--------------------------------- >Yahoo! Mail Mobile > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Mon May 9 13:08:15 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: S. alata Dang construction. I really wish the community as a whole did not ever have to save a plant (because they were protected). Well I hope we all have good homes for them (I do). Tre ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Mon May 9 13:12:04 2005 Subject: [CP] Scented Pygmies i didnt know there were scented drosera flowers --- Nigel Hurneyman wrote: > Further to my previous posting, I now have Drosera > enodes in flower and it smells extremely like > Drosera > dichrosepala. > > I haven't received any opinions yet about whether > Drosera stelliflora is scented or not, so if you > have > it in flower please give it a sniff. > > NigelH > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > Yahoo! Messenger - want a free and easy way to > contact your friends online? > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Mon May 9 13:13:15 2005 Subject: [CP] Stuck on Mars drosophyllum likes sandy dusty dry areas. and wait, isnt there even cool water vapor fog on mars sometimes? --- Barry Rice wrote: > Hey Ron, > > Don't give up hope for Martian Drosera on those > sandy, dusty areas. Sugar > sand is a great indicator for fine habitat in the > Jersey Pine Barrens. I've > nearly gotten stuck in it, myself. (sugar sand on > NJ, that is, not on Mars.) > > :) > > > > I was reviewing some old maps and discovered, to > my interest, that > > > Mars has a region called Nepenthes. This name > described a > > > Mars is cold, dry and sandy - not very good > growing > > conditions for carnivorous plants. In fact, one > of our > > rovers is currently stuck in the sand, which we're > trying to get out. > > Barry > Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. > Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor > The International Carnivorous Plant Society > http://www.carnivorousplants.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: adavis at ecoresource.com (Alani Davis) Date: Mon May 9 13:18:36 2005 Subject: [CP] Sarracenia psittacina Hello - I am new to this forum. I am a long carnivorous plant enthusiast that had drifted from the culture of these plants for many years while involved with other plants. I am back now and wow things are different with the involvement of the Internet. I am presently involved with ecological restoration work in the Florida panhandle, which has plenty to do with carnivorous plants! My question at this point is what is considered a "giant" Sarracenia psittacina. I have seen this reference in several lists and collections. In my fieldwork, I see quite a range of variation. There are populations and individuals here and there that are of larger than average size; however, last year we found a population of giants in Bay County, Florida that seemed exceptional. Many of these plants seemed to fit the descriptions of large forms from the Okefenokee Swamp. The plants were twelve inches or more across with large pitchers. There were some individuals though of exceptional size with pitchers closing in on golf ball sized though not quite that large. Is this as exceptional as I think it is? Are there any other "parrot pitcher plant that got away" stories to share out there? (Akin to fish that got away stories) I have photos for the non-believers. Alani ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu) Date: Mon May 9 13:24:50 2005 Subject: [CP] Butterworts Dear Steve, I see two clones/varieties of it on Andreas Wistuba's sales list, check in the temperate butterworts section: http://www.heliamphora.de/shop/assets/s2dmain.html?http://www.heliamphora.de /shop/ Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of Steven R. Currie Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 10:38 AM To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Has anyone ever seen pinguicula vulgaris for sale? Does anyone raise it? I thought vulgaris meant "common" but it seems to be hard to find. Steve ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Mon May 9 13:45:10 2005 Subject: [CP] Horticulture magazine The May/June 2005 issue (vol. 102, no. 4) of Horticulture magazine (pages 68-72) contains an article by Rob Gardner titled "Pitcher Plants" with some nice color photos. The article is technically correct, except one photo of Drosophyllum that is labled "6. Sundews (Drosera)". -Bob- ################### From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon May 9 13:57:32 2005 Subject: [CP] Stuck on Mars > > drosophyllum likes sandy dusty dry areas. and wait, > isnt there even cool water vapor fog on mars > sometimes? Mars is colder than the Antarctic. Do you know of any carnivorous plants that can withstand freezing temperatures year round? Also, water is a problem. There is no liquid water on Mars on the surface. It is either frozen or underground. The atmosphere is so thin, the ultraviolet pretty much sterilizes anything on the surface. Ron Baalke ################### From: DorryD at comcast.net (DorryD@comcast.net) Date: Mon May 9 15:32:23 2005 Subject: [CP] observation on nepenthis ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Mon May 9 16:09:40 2005 Subject: [CP] terraium qestion ok, i recently decided to put my cps in a terranuim (puting them and there pots in)because the place i have them growing is to dry, but outside is to cold. it doesnt really have a full cover so i put plastic wrap over the top to try to profide humidity, but it hasent worked! should i put more water in the tank or what? Jon Mungeam, Massachusetts, zone 5-6 -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: srcurrie at currieweb.com (Steven R. Currie) Date: Mon May 9 16:31:21 2005 Subject: [CP] Butterworts Thanks for the info. Very cool. I guess I have only been searching and buying from American sites so I did not run across them. Steve dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu wrote: >Dear Steve, > > >I see two clones/varieties of it on Andreas Wistuba's sales list, check in >the temperate butterworts section: >http://www.heliamphora.de/shop/assets/s2dmain.html?http://www.heliamphora.de >/shop/ > > >Dave Evans >New Jersey, USA >www.Dangerousplants.com > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On Behalf >Of Steven R. Currie >Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 10:38 AM >To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group >Subject: [CP] Butterworts > > Has anyone ever seen pinguicula vulgaris for sale? Does anyone raise >it? I thought vulgaris meant "common" but it seems to be hard to find. > >Steve > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Mon May 9 18:03:50 2005 Subject: [CP] Have: Utricularia olivacea for Trade Have Drarf bladderwort Utricularia olivacea for any of these terr. native bladderworts? Reversed Bladderwort Utricularia resupinata Southern Bladderwort Utricularia juncea Wolf ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Mon May 9 19:54:01 2005 Subject: [CP] Stuck on Mars of course. it was a joke --- Ron Baalke wrote: > > > > drosophyllum likes sandy dusty dry areas. and > wait, > > isnt there even cool water vapor fog on mars > > sometimes? > > Mars is colder than the Antarctic. Do you know of > any > carnivorous plants that can withstand freezing > temperatures > year round? Also, water is a problem. There is no > liquid > water on Mars on the surface. It is either frozen or > > underground. The atmosphere is so thin, the > ultraviolet > pretty much sterilizes anything on the surface. > > Ron Baalke > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: stephenwd at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Davis) Date: Mon May 9 20:20:55 2005 Subject: [CP] Animated VFT in an online ad for a monitor Hey all, The below link takes you to a great link for an ad for a monitor that features a fly flying around and being eaten by a VFT that is on a flat panel LCD!!!! Don't wait too long to go see it as I don't know how long it will be up there. Very cool! http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/campaign/915n_c/b2c_optin_915n_c.jsp Stephen Davis San Jose, CA Zone 9, sunset zone 15 www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com ################### From: dinesh at ndbib.lanka.net (Dinesh Fernando) Date: Mon May 9 20:49:07 2005 Subject: [CP] Drosera stratification question If I may request a quick clarification: does this mean that seeds of other species (the ones that don't say "no stratification") actually need stratification. If so, for how long? I purchased some Drosera seeds from the ICPS too, but I made it a point to purchase seeds described as "tropical" in the "Savage Garden". Unfortunately most species haven't germinated ... I live in Sri Lanka (tropical climate), and use a 1 : 1 mix of silica sand and coco-peat. Fortunately, I only sowed a few of the seeds I purchased, and still have enough left to have another go. Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks, Dinesh. ... It is meant to indicate that no stratification is believed to be required for the seed to germinate. Since it is from Cuba and they don't get temps below the 40's F very often, it would seem unlikely that any species from there would need much, if any, stratification. Of course, montane locations could be bit a different regarding temps ..... ....... I hope the answer to this question isn't so obvious that > I'm making a fool of myself for asking this...but - on the > seed packet of D. intermedia (Cuba) I receieved from ICPS, > it says "no stratification." Am I correct in thinking this > means I do not need to stratify before sowing? I just > wanted to makes sure this didn't mean it had not been > stratified and that I need to.... ################### From: ClaraVoiAunt at aol.com (ClaraVoiAunt@aol.com) Date: Mon May 9 21:31:16 2005 Subject: [CP] need e-mail address Sorry to the rest of the list , jest skip this item. ################### From: nepenthes at borneoexotics.com (Borneo Exotics (Pvt) Ltd) Date: Tue May 10 00:04:28 2005 Subject: [CP] Grafting Nepenthes Has anyone any experience of grafting Nepenthes? We've tried a few times and they live for a few weeks only and don't take. Perhaps there's some secret to it or maybe it just can't be done but I seem to recall having heard of it before. It would be great to get some species with "fussy" roots grafted onto some vigorous roots stock - e.g. N. lowii or N. rajah on to N. ventricosa would be nice! Any ideas, suggestions or data drawn from experience would be welcome. Thanks, Rob Cantley ################### From: sardonus at yahoo.com (Hamish McKellar) Date: Tue May 10 01:14:00 2005 Subject: [CP] Grafting Nepenthes Rob, Probably the best way to find out if it can be done is to work backwards. That is, graft onto the same species, using different individuals of the same species, and maybe different variants of the same species. If that doesn't work, you've probably got buckley's chance with anything else. If it does work, then maybe working with vigorous hybrids of the target species. So if you're looking to graft N. lowii onto a something with a less temperamental root system, you might try grafting it onto a ventricosa x lowii. Just some instinctive thoughts... Hamish --- "Borneo Exotics (Pvt) Ltd" wrote: > Has anyone any experience of grafting Nepenthes? > We've tried a few times > and they live for a few weeks only and don't take. > Perhaps there's some > secret to it or maybe it just can't be done but I > seem to recall having > heard of it before. It would be great to get some > species with "fussy" > roots grafted onto some vigorous roots stock - e.g. > N. lowii or N. rajah on > to N. ventricosa would be nice! > > Any ideas, suggestions or data drawn from experience > would be welcome. > > Thanks, > > Rob Cantley > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ___________________________________________________________ How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com ################### From: djiezus at lycos.com (Fre rik) Date: Tue May 10 07:44:26 2005 Subject: [CP] Off Topic: grafted tree park in the US Hi all, a friend of mine is looking for the name of a public park in the US that has a large collection of artistically grafted trees. As I'm being told, the trees are adults and were grafted a few decades ago into bizar shapes and bends (e.g. some with tree "feet", with loops, ... ) by an artist who isn't among us anymore. I found a site which depicts what I'm talking about: http://www.danladd.com/Living_Sculpture.htm but I'm looking for the name of a park that has been built around these adult plants. Thanks in advance, Frederick -- _______________________________________________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com ################### From: jwdunn5 at netscape.net (jwdunn5@netscape.net) Date: Tue May 10 09:11:10 2005 Subject: [CP] 1st trip to see cp in the wild thanks chris. jason __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: ThomBroGar at aol.com (ThomBroGar@aol.com) Date: Tue May 10 10:32:10 2005 Subject: [CP] Large psittacenias In a message dated 5/10/2005 4:15:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: > Message: 9 > Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 16:18:23 -0400 > From: "Alani Davis" > Subject: [CP] Sarracenia psittacina > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hello - > > > > I am new to this forum. I am a long carnivorous plant enthusiast that had > drifted from the culture of these plants for many years while involved with > other plants. I am back now and wow things are different with the > involvement of the Internet. I am presently involved with ecological > restoration work in the Florida panhandle, which has plenty to do with > carnivorous plants! My question at this point is what is considered a > "giant" Sarracenia psittacina. I have seen this reference in several lists > and collections. In my fieldwork, I see quite a range of variation. There > are populations and individuals here and there that are of larger than > average size; however, last year we found a population of giants in Bay > County, Florida that seemed exceptional. Many of these plants seemed to fit > the descriptions of large forms from the Okefenokee Swamp. The plants were > twelve inches or more across with large pitchers. There were some > individuals though of exceptional size with pitchers closing in on golf ball > sized though not quite that large. Is this as exceptional as I think it is? > Are there any other "parrot pitcher plant that got away" stories to share > out there? (Akin to fish that got away stories) I have photos for the > non-believers. ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Tue May 10 10:54:54 2005 Subject: [CP] Off Topic: grafted tree park in the US i've been searching the web and am quickly learning there is a whole subculture of arborsculpturalists. this is one of them: http://www.arborsmith.com/treecircus.html i'm sort of doing a sculpture with a vining N. maxima (braiding and bending the vines back in loops--maybe spirals), except i really have no idea how it's going to eventually look. i figure if the vines die, which they show no sign of doing, they can provide support for future vines. the original idea was just to keep the leaves exposed to sun since the vine was growing beyond the height of my window. it had grown up to the ceiling and was toppling over anyway. i just took some of the tendrils and looped them around lower parts of the vine and some bamboo supports and now i have one completed loop that is supported and exposed to sun. interestingly enough, the tendrils that are wrapped around the bamboo support seem quicker to pitcher than the ones wrapped around the plant's own stem. so there. it's not that off-topic. CP Topiary. Gary Kong "Fre rik" wrote: >Hi all, > >a friend of mine is looking for the name of a public park in the >US that has a large collection of artistically grafted trees. As >I'm being told, the trees are adults and were grafted a few decades >ago into bizar shapes and bends (e.g. some with tree "feet", with >loops, ... ) by an artist who isn't among us anymore. I found a >site which depicts what I'm talking about: >http://www.danladd.com/Living_Sculpture.htm >but I'm looking for the name of a park that has been built around these >adult plants. > >Thanks in advance, >Frederick > >-- >_______________________________________________ >NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. >http://datingsearch.lycos.com > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Tue May 10 10:55:03 2005 Subject: [CP] Sarracenia psittacina There is an unregistered S. psittacina cultivar S. 'Giant' {D'Amato} listed in the ICPS Database and described in "Savage Garden". Also, there is a photo of a S. psittacina growth form with a "giant hood" located at http://www.omnisterra.com/botany/cp/pictures/sarracen/s_psit1.htm Let us see your photos! -Bob- Alani Davis wrote: > Hello - > > I am new to this forum. I am a long carnivorous plant enthusiast that had > drifted from the culture of these plants for many years while involved with > other plants. I am back now and wow things are different with the > involvement of the Internet. I am presently involved with ecological > restoration work in the Florida panhandle, which has plenty to do with > carnivorous plants! My question at this point is what is considered a > "giant" Sarracenia psittacina. I have seen this reference in several lists > and collections. In my fieldwork, I see quite a range of variation. There > are populations and individuals here and there that are of larger than > average size; however, last year we found a population of giants in Bay > County, Florida that seemed exceptional. Many of these plants seemed to fit > the descriptions of large forms from the Okefenokee Swamp. The plants were > twelve inches or more across with large pitchers. There were some > individuals though of exceptional size with pitchers closing in on golf ball > sized though not quite that large. Is this as exceptional as I think it is? > Are there any other "parrot pitcher plant that got away" stories to share > out there? (Akin to fish that got away stories) I have photos for the > non-believers. > > Alani ################### From: it_290 at hotmail.com (mike wilder) Date: Tue May 10 11:24:11 2005 Subject: [CP] 3d cp documentary hello folks, i've been pretty busy this past year working on a 3d documentary about carnivorous plants. i finally got a semi-crummy web page up for now. ultimately there will be a great site, but for the moment there's a few 3d pictures and a nice 3d sample movie (12 mb): www.3dsyndrome.com check it out if you like-- mike wilder www.geocities.com/pingenstein ################### From: flyingcamel at gmail.com (flyingcamel) Date: Tue May 10 11:28:42 2005 Subject: [CP] Off Topic: grafted tree park in the US Bonfante Gardens in Gilroy, CA is what you're thinking of (http://www.bonfantegardens.com). It seems to be more family amusement park than garden, but they do have Axel Erlandson's remaining trees on display. There's some good pictures on the website. Cynthia On 5/10/05, Gary Kong wrote: > i've been searching the web and am quickly learning there is a whole > subculture of arborsculpturalists. this is one of them: > > http://www.arborsmith.com/treecircus.html > > i'm sort of doing a sculpture with a vining N. maxima (braiding and > bending the vines back in loops--maybe spirals), except i really have > no idea how it's going to eventually look. i figure if the vines die, > which they show no sign of doing, they can provide support for future > vines. the original idea was just to keep the leaves exposed to sun > since the vine was growing beyond the height of my window. it had > grown up to the ceiling and was toppling over anyway. i just took > some of the tendrils and looped them around lower parts of the vine > and some bamboo supports and now i have one completed loop that is > supported and exposed to sun. > > interestingly enough, the tendrils that are wrapped around the bamboo > support seem quicker to pitcher than the ones wrapped around the > plant's own stem. > > so there. it's not that off-topic. CP Topiary. > > Gary Kong > > "Fre rik" wrote: > > >Hi all, > > > >a friend of mine is looking for the name of a public park in the US > >that has a large collection of artistically grafted trees. As I'm > >being told, the trees are adults and were grafted a few decades ago > >into bizar shapes and bends (e.g. some with tree "feet", with loops, > >... ) by an artist who isn't among us anymore. I found a site which > >depicts what I'm talking about: > >http://www.danladd.com/Living_Sculpture.htm but I'm looking for the > >name of a park that has been built around these adult plants. > > > >Thanks in advance, Frederick > > > >-- _______________________________________________ NEW! Lycos Dating > >Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. > >http://datingsearch.lycos.com > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ Cp mailing list > >Cp@omnisterra.com > >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: > http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm > > __________________________________________________________________ > Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign > up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register > > Netscape. Just the Net You Need. > > New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on > the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at > http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp > > _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > ################### From: ksanders at clas.ufl.edu (Keith Sanders) Date: Tue May 10 11:32:16 2005 Subject: [CP] 3d cp documentary Nice, as in Awesome, you mean. Wow - what a cool ping movie. mike wilder wrote: > hello folks, > > i've been pretty busy this past year working on a 3d documentary about > carnivorous plants. i finally got a semi-crummy web page up for now. > ultimately there will be a great site, but for the moment there's a few > 3d pictures and a nice 3d sample movie (12 mb): > > www.3dsyndrome.com > > check it out if you like-- > > mike wilder > www.geocities.com/pingenstein > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com -- Keith Sanders Systems Programmer CLASnet - College of Liberal Arts Network University of Florida PO Box 112034 Gainesville, FL 32611 ################### From: ThomBroGar at aol.com (ThomBroGar@aol.com) Date: Tue May 10 12:25:43 2005 Subject: [CP] Large Psitts In a message dated 5/10/2005 3:02:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: > There is an unregistered S. psittacina cultivar S. 'Giant' {D'Amato} > listed in the ICPS Database and described in "Savage Garden". Also, > there is a photo of a S. psittacina growth form with a "giant hood" > located at > http://www.omnisterra.com/botany/cp/pictures/sarracen/s_psit1.htm > > Let us see your photos! > > -Bob- A bit of clarifacation, the psitts with the large pitchers ends are 'Golfballensis'. I have a clone called 'Carolina Giant' and several golfballensis. I am waiting for them to recover from a Xyra moth pitcher pruning this winter. I understand that psitts that are grown sub-aquatically get much bigger. I am testing this theroy and will report back. ################### From: ksanders at clas.ufl.edu (Keith Sanders) Date: Tue May 10 12:41:44 2005 Subject: [CP] Large Psitts Hi, Do you know anyone who offers the golfballensis commercially? thanks, Keith ThomBroGar@aol.com wrote: > A bit of clarifacation, the psitts with the large pitchers ends are > 'Golfballensis'. I have a clone called 'Carolina Giant' and several golfballensis. I > am waiting for them to recover from a Xyra moth pitcher pruning this winter. I > understand that psitts that are grown sub-aquatically get much bigger. I am > testing this theroy and will report back. > > Brooks -- Keith Sanders Systems Programmer CLASnet - College of Liberal Arts Network University of Florida PO Box 112034 Gainesville, FL 32611 ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Tue May 10 13:04:58 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: P. vulgaris, Re: grafting I know you can get P. vulgaris from some canadian growers. I would recommend getting seed though. I mean after you get your free permit just because sometimes the USDA holds the plants for inspection and will not allow them if they have soil. I can't imagine it woul dbe that much of a problem with our neighbors to the north. I think grating is mentioned it either Carnivorous Plants of the World by the Pietropaleos (sp?) or one of Gordon Cheers books but someone else should clairfy that. I do know it said you can graft less vigorous plants onto virgorous stocks. I think the example may have been truncata on alata but I am not sure. Tre ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Tue May 10 13:08:32 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: S. psitticenia Some psitts are huge so they would be bigger then normal. I am not sure how many are in cultivation but you can find them in the wild, if you know where to look. Tre ################### From: ccp at vaxxine.com (ccp@vaxxine.com) Date: Tue May 10 18:08:09 2005 Subject: [CP] New Arrival to the CP world I just thought it would be quicker to post this here than try to find everyone I correspond with and send private mails. My wife Melissa and I (Carl Mazur) welcomed the newest member to our family this morning at 9:00 am. Sister to our daughter Julia Rose, Allison Jane Mazur was born 7pounds 12 ounces. Mom and baby are great, however mommy and daddy are very tired!!! I've been out of the email loop for a couple of days and likely will be for the next couple of days. Talk to y'all later. Night, Night! Carl ------[ This message was sent using Vaxxine Webmail ]------ www.vaxxine.com - Niagara's Premier Internet Service Provider ################### From: ZielinskiJ at edaw.com (Jim Zielinski) Date: Tue May 10 21:17:11 2005 Subject: [CP] Bog Number Two under way... Hello, Guys and Dolls - Some of you may recall some questions/comments I had last season about installing a bog garden. The second, larger one is underway - in fact, the hard part's done - and I had a couple of questions. For a larger garden, someone once made the statement to the effect that it might be good to have a treated post of some kind, or two, in place as a means of installing a stepping stone atop for later management issues. Would concrete blocks work, or would that leach anything detrimental into the peat and sand...? Also, is anyone familiar with Juncus effusus "Unicorn," or corkscrew rush? Is it a reasonable companion plant to Sarracenia, et al. in the bog garden, or would it be competitive? Given its purported height, I would have it toward the rear as a sort of background when looking straight on. - jEz p.s.: Nice little gif here: http://www.countrywhatnotgardens.com/carnivorous/cp.html ################### From: DougWitkowski at netscape.net (DougWitkowski@netscape.net) Date: Wed May 11 06:46:40 2005 Subject: [CP] Bog Number Two under way... The acidic soil will leach calcium out of the concrete, I wouldn't use it. I would also not use treated lumber as there is copper compounds it it. Perhaps glazed clay, plastic, or something similar. I prefer to make the bog no wider than 4 1/2 to 5 feet to allow reaching across. It also makes it easier to see all of the plants. Doug W Dripping Springs, TX "Jim Zielinski" wrote: >Hello, Guys and Dolls - > >Some of you may recall some questions/comments I had last season about >installing a bog garden. ?The second, larger one is underway - in fact, >the hard part's done - and ?I had a couple of questions. > >For a larger garden, someone once made the statement to the effect that >it might be good to have a treated post of some kind, or two, in place >as a means of installing a stepping stone atop for later management >issues. > >Would concrete blocks work, or would that leach anything detrimental >into the peat and sand...? > >Also, is anyone familiar with Juncus effusus "Unicorn," or corkscrew >rush? ?Is it a reasonable companion plant to Sarracenia, et al. in the >bog garden, or would it be competitive? ?Given its purported height, I >would have it toward the rear as a sort of background when looking >straight on. > >- jEz > >p.s.: ?Nice little gif here: >http://www.countrywhatnotgardens.com/carnivorous/cp.html > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: epbb at club-internet.fr (Eric PARTRAT) Date: Wed May 11 09:00:50 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 24, Issue 11 > Has anyone ever seen pinguicula vulgaris for sale? Does anyone raise > it? I thought vulgaris meant "common" but it seems to be hard to find. > > Steve This is not the best season for exchanging or buying temperate Pinguicula. Best is in automn. If you can wait until automn, I will have many gemmae of temperate Pinguicula. I live in France best regards Eric PARTRAT epbb@club-internet.fr A WORLD OF PINGUICULA www.pinguicula.org ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Wed May 11 12:21:04 2005 Subject: [CP] Large Psitts Hey folks, So, if it ain't registered, it ain't a cultivar. And in this case, for good reasons---"Golfballensis" is a bogus LATIN name (not cultivar name) which means, if I decode it correctly, "Grows on golfballs". I think the underinformed person who coined that phrase might have been more successful with his or her bogus naming attempts if the final bogus name selected was "golfballiopsis". Unless it is true this plant grows on golf balls. Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 15:25:22 EDT > From: ThomBroGar@aol.com > Subject: [CP] Large Psitts > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <1eb.3ac7044f.2fb264a2@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > In a message dated 5/10/2005 3:02:30 PM Eastern Standard > Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: > > > There is an unregistered S. psittacina cultivar S. 'Giant' > {D'Amato} > > listed in the ICPS Database and described in "Savage Garden". Also, > > there is a photo of a S. psittacina growth form with a "giant hood" > > located at > > http://www.omnisterra.com/botany/cp/pictures/sarracen/s_psit1.htm > > > > Let us see your photos! > > > > -Bob- > > A bit of clarifacation, the psitts with the large pitchers > ends are 'Golfballensis'. I have a clone called 'Carolina > Giant' and several golfballensis. I am waiting for them to > recover from a Xyra moth pitcher pruning this winter. I > understand that psitts that are grown sub-aquatically get > much bigger. I am testing this theroy and will report back. > > Brooks > ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Wed May 11 13:02:53 2005 Subject: [CP] Ever been incredibly stupid ?(and wish you hadn't been) I am not sure that I should confess to this one. For some years now in the UK, it has been possible to own a personalised car number plate. Max Bygraves drove around for years with MB1, which Mercedes Benz tried to buy off of him. A very sort after plate is ELV 15, which is worth a lot of money. Anyway, I have quite fancied a plate with the letters VFT in it. VFT1 would be very expensive and way out of my budget, but I always thought that I could pick up a cheaper plate somewhere. It was quiet at work today, and after far too many teas and coffees, always dangerous, I got on a works computer this late afternoon. I put in the letters VFT into a number plate transfer company and it came up with quite a few options. I spotted the plate M1 VFT. I thought 'that's good, My Venus Fly Trap'. It wasn't all that expensive as far as plates go, some can fetch thousands, and, anyway, muggings bought it. I know that I will wake up tomorrow thinking 'what I have I done". Confessions of a CP addict. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: RL7836 at earthlink.net (Ron Lane) Date: Wed May 11 14:22:21 2005 Subject: [CP] Auction for CP There are some excellent plants & seeds (& other stuff) available at the Terraforums auction. I do not believe that you need to be a member to bid (check rules). Examples include: S. rubra ssp. rubra, D. regia seeds, S. flava var cuprea, D. dichotoma 'small red form', N. hamata, N. ampullaria 'hot lips', several pings and utrics and more. Many of the Sarracenia have location info and all money goes to a good cause. If interested, the auction is at: http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin/ib312/ikonboard.cgi?s=95058fea1e53aed59e4bf6b507ef2826;act=SF;f=33;st=0 Due to shipping restrictions, most items are USA only (but not all). All the best, Ron Lane Central NJ, USA ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Wed May 11 14:40:15 2005 Subject: [CP] Also for Trade: Drosera capillaris -VA Also have Drosera capillaris (VA) for trade for plants I need. Wolf ################### From: chesen at bellsouth.net (Jason Walter) Date: Wed May 11 19:39:30 2005 Subject: [CP] Abita springs sarracenia... Hello, all, I suppose I should introduce myself. My name is Jason, and I've been a lurker on the listserve for about two years now. (Yeah, not so social, me.) My plants include sundews (about 21 different sp.), Sarracenia (13 or so hybrids and sundry,) Drosophyllum, Nepenthes (six sp. and hybrids) and a heap of seeds stubbornly refusing to germinate from anything else I can lay my hands on. Most of this grows under shop lights in my garage, with the exception of the Sarrs, which enjoy my local Louisiana weather. I live in New Orleans, which for the bayou-challenged, is just across Lake Pontchartrain from the endangered Sarracenia site that Mr. Mazur referenced a couple of newsletters ago. I have spoken with Mr. Sanchez, and my family and I (man-oh-man do I have a good wife) have started collecting the plants for rescue. I had originally hoped to use social contacts to create a bog display in the City Park gardens here in New Orleans with some social commentary, but said contacts don't seem to be as thrilled about it as they originally made out to be. I have a couple of leads on other people who may be able to provide space to make a public display with the plants, but if they fall through as well, I'll be calling for the adoption agencies. If you live near New Orleans (I'm sorry, but I'm WAY too nervous to try shipping these things--just digging them up is about to give me a heart attack) and would like to adopt, we already have a few dozen waiting for homes. (Heh--not so easy to find in the dark with a Coleman lantern after work.) I plan to gather as many more this weekend as possible--the site has been partially cleared, but there is still a lot to go, and it doesn't seem that construction is going to start for another couple of weeks yet. Mr. Sanchez also says there are tons of sundews (my son has already collected D. brevifolia from his grandparents' property nearby, so I assume they're the same,) in the area, and I'm keeping my eyes peeled for S. psittacina. Anyway, any advice anyone can give me to ensure safe collecting would be appreciated--many of the sarrs have already flowered and are in growth; not the best time to be uprooting them. ################### From: writserv at nbnet.nb.ca (Rand Nicholson) Date: Wed May 11 19:47:46 2005 Subject: [CP] Large Psitts It can be done. I grew one in a pot with the lower half of the pot filled with marbles and it got to at least a foot across. I coulda used golf balls ... The Psitt was in a beer cooler ... P. beercoolerienses? A rose by .... Rand Nicholson >Hey folks, > >So, if it ain't registered, it ain't a cultivar. And in this case, for good >reasons---"Golfballensis" is a bogus LATIN name (not cultivar name) which >means, if I decode it correctly, "Grows on golfballs". > >I think the underinformed person who coined that phrase might have been more >successful with his or her bogus naming attempts if the final bogus name >selected was "golfballiopsis". > >Unless it is true this plant grows on golf balls. > >Barry > >Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. >Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor >The International Carnivorous Plant Society >http://www.carnivorousplants.org > >> Message: 1 >> Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 15:25:22 EDT >> From: ThomBroGar@aol.com >> Subject: [CP] Large Psitts >> To: Cp@omnisterra.com >> Message-ID: <1eb.3ac7044f.2fb264a2@aol.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >> >> In a message dated 5/10/2005 3:02:30 PM Eastern Standard >> Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: >> >> > There is an unregistered S. psittacina cultivar S. 'Giant' >> {D'Amato} >> > listed in the ICPS Database and described in "Savage Garden". Also, >> > there is a photo of a S. psittacina growth form with a "giant hood" >> > located at >> > http://www.omnisterra.com/botany/cp/pictures/sarracen/s_psit1.htm >> > >> > Let us see your photos! >> > >> > -Bob- >> >> A bit of clarifacation, the psitts with the large pitchers >> ends are 'Golfballensis'. I have a clone called 'Carolina >> Giant' and several golfballensis. I am waiting for them to >> recover from a Xyra moth pitcher pruning this winter. I >> understand that psitts that are grown sub-aquatically get >> much bigger. I am testing this theroy and will report back. >> > > Brooks >> -- Rand Nicholson Zone 5b Eastern Maritime Canada ################### From: ClaraVoiAunt at aol.com (ClaraVoiAunt@aol.com) Date: Wed May 11 20:16:44 2005 Subject: [CP] New arrival in the CP world. Carl and Melissa, Congrats on your new addition.The next few weeks of sleep deprivation will be well worth it, the first time she smiles at you.Give Miss Allison a hug for me. Thanx for listening and keep 'em plants growin' >From the middle of Whine country,Sonoma County Calif. Ex maternity nurse needing a baby fix. Lois In a message dated 5/11/2005 12:02:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: My wife Melissa and I (Carl Mazur) welcomed the newest member to our family this morning at 9:00 am. Sister to our daughter Julia Rose, Allison Jane Mazur was born 7pounds 12 ounces. Mom and baby are great, however mommy and daddy are very tired!!! I've been out of the email loop for a couple of days and likely will be for the next couple of days. Talk to y'all later. Night, Night! Carl ################### From: jgbritt at mac.com (John Brittnacher) Date: Wed May 11 20:40:20 2005 Subject: [CP] UC Davis Plant Sale 14 May This Saturday the University of California, Davis, Botanical Conservatory will have plants at the Arboretum Plant Sale at the Arboretum Nursery at Orchard Park. The sale will be from 9 AM to 1 PM. A map is at: http://homepage.mac.com/jgbritt/bc/opmap.html This will be the last of our spring sales this year. There are 7 blooming size Sarracenia oreophila plus some smaller S. alabamensis, S. jonesii and S. alata, and hybrids including S. Hummer's Hammerhead. We pulled 13 Nepenthes plants for the sale and will have a few trays of Drosera, mostly D. binata. This won't be anything like our large fall sales but if you want S. oreophila, now is the time. We have been essentially selling out at our spring sales this year so get there early. Our next sales are 30 September and 1 October. John Brittnacher ################### From: stefanomzz at yahoo.it (stefanomzz@yahoo.it) Date: Thu May 12 00:10:42 2005 Subject: [CP] S.psittaccina spring desease Hi all, concerning S.psittaccina in general, maybe many of you have heard that growers out of America, as I am, very often find themselves in trouble when psittaccinas wake up from winter dormancy, because they always suffer severe fungal attacks. I don't have much experience in growing this specimen, but, in facts, all the psittaccinas I have grown suddenly died in spring before I could do anything - and the same problem is reported by many other growers here in Italy. It has been just luck that this year I tried to cut the most distal growing apex from a young individual (note that I had previously treated it with a fungicide) wich was under attack, potted it in a brand new substrate and kept apart from the rest of the plants; now two new pitchers are growing from it, but I won't believe the hazard will be over untill I see the plant fully developed. One classical suggestion is to keep the psittaccina underwater during the winter to avoid contaminations, but in my experience this hint has never saved my plants. I strongly think that in their natural environment psittaccinas can withstand parasites attacks because they live with some symbiontic fungi species that are natural antagonist for the parasite ones. Here in Europe we don't have such microorganisms, so our psitts are much more prone to diseases. Have growers from America ever had this kind of problem? Does any of you have suggestions? Stefano Modena, Italy ___________________________________ Nuovo Yahoo! Messenger: E' molto più divertente: Audibles, Avatar, Webcam, Giochi, Rubrica… Scaricalo ora! http://it.messenger.yahoo.it ################### From: john.wilden at hmrc.gsi.gov.uk (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) Date: Thu May 12 01:51:15 2005 Subject: [CP] Stuck on Mars-act III Mars is colder than the Antarctic. Do you know of any carnivorous plants that can withstand freezing temperatures year round? Also, water is a problem. There is no liquid water on Mars on the surface. It is either frozen or underground. The atmosphere is so thin, the ultraviolet pretty much sterilizes anything on the surface. Ron Baalke ........and the winner is; Utricularia subulata! It laughs in the face of harsh conditions. It guffaws at my attempts to kill it and would probably giggle with disbelief at the conditions mentioned above. Regards John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Thu May 12 02:07:30 2005 Subject: [CP] Sarracenia psittacina I remember getting a psittacina from 'Orgel's Orchids' once that was referred to as "Giant Globosa Hood." It was a great plant with bulbous tops that were AT LEAST the size of golf balls. Unfortunately, I lost it in a move to the California high desert before I realized that growing CP outdoors in such an environment was not such a good idea. Wish I could get another one of those. In a message dated 5/9/2005 1:18:55 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, adavis@ecoresource.com writes: Many of these plants seemed to fit the descriptions of large forms from the Okefenokee Swamp. The plants were twelve inches or more across with large pitchers. There were some individuals though of exceptional size with pitchers closing in on golf ball sized though not quite that large. Is this as exceptional as I think it is? TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: ddarnows at ius.edu (Darnowski, Douglas William) Date: Thu May 12 04:27:49 2005 Subject: [CP] More Plants for Sale Some more plants for sale: Drosera species: Lake Badgerup $6 scorpoides $10 pygmaea Eastern States of Australia $8 microscapa $8 roseana $10 pulchella $8 Carbarup $8 nitidula ssp. allantostigma $8 adelae $6 capillaris $5 Genlisea species: hispidula $12 hispidula Pink Flower $15 filiformis $13 Utricularia species: warburgii $10 foliosa $6 livida $6 minutissima $8 calcyfida $8 tricolor $7 Aldrovanda: SW Australia $12 NT Australia (Girraween) $6 Poland $8 Japan $6 Also, my book on triggerplants $18 (signed) to the US, $20 to Canada, $25 elsewhere. If interested, please email me at ddarnowski2@yahoo.com or ddarnows@ius.edu. Doug Darnowski ################### From: drone at dronecolony.com (C. Church) Date: Thu May 12 07:41:30 2005 Subject: [CP] Carnivorous sculptures Hey all, I saw these on Tribe today and thought I'd share the links with y'all. Aparantly these sculptures were displayed at (this year's? last year's?) Coachella festival. I apologize if the links are too long, but that seems to be the only way to get 'em. Very neat stuff! http://losangeles.tribe.net/template/pub%2CViewPhoto.vm/context/tribe?parentid=83ce676f-93d5-42bf-ba85-05bf49ee8e7a&page=1¤toffset=1&r=10025 http://losangeles.tribe.net/template/pub%2CViewPhoto.vm/context/tribe?parentid=83ce676f-93d5-42bf-ba85-05bf49ee8e7a&page=1¤toffset=0&r=10025 (make sure to put them back together if word-wrap gets ya) !c ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Thu May 12 08:57:05 2005 Subject: [CP] S.psittaccina spring disease Dear Stefano, I have trouble with _S. psittacina_ also. You might try to grow it differently than your other _Sarracenia_. I feel _S. psittacina_, _S. purpurea_ and _S. rosea_ are less tolerant of dry soil then the other species. Additionally, _S. psittacina_ has a very awkward shape which is not as amendable to standard, in a pot, cultivation. Since they are getting many fungal problems, I am inclined to suspect there might be some problem related to the temperature. Perhaps the seasonal weather is different enough to have a negative affect on the species' health? I have been more successful with _S. ps._ using what would appear to be over sized pots and having the soil level lower than in the pots for the other species. Basically, I think many _S. psittacina_ are grown in too small a pot to provide the correct environment. Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of stefanomzz@yahoo.it Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 3:10 AM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Hi all, concerning S.psittaccina in general, maybe many of you have heard that growers out of America, as I am, very often find themselves in trouble when psittaccinas wake up from winter dormancy, because they always suffer severe fungal attacks. I don't have much experience in growing this specimen, but, in facts, all the psittaccinas I have grown suddenly died in spring before I could do anything - and the same problem is reported by many other growers here in Italy. It has been just luck that this year I tried to cut the most distal growing apex from a young individual (note that I had previously treated it with a fungicide) wich was under attack, potted it in a brand new substrate and kept apart from the rest of the plants; now two new pitchers are growing from it, but I won't believe the hazard will be over untill I see the plant fully developed. One classical suggestion is to keep the psittaccina underwater during the winter to avoid contaminations, but in my experience this hint has never saved my plants. I strongly think that in their natural environment psittaccinas can withstand parasites attacks because they live with some symbiontic fungi species that are natural antagonist for the parasite ones. Here in Europe we don't have such microorganisms, so our psitts are much more prone to diseases. Have growers from America ever had this kind of problem? Does any of you have suggestions? Stefano Modena, Italy ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Thu May 12 13:43:33 2005 Subject: [CP] Welcome and RE: psitts Use a full sized shovel for Sarrs Jason. Having saved some plants myself that seems to work better then a trowel( which broke halfway through). I doubt you will be able to get all the D. brevs, D. capillaris and D. intermedia (if any) that there are. Be prepared for several hundred. You will have an awesome in ground bog garden if yo do manage to save them all. Oh and welcome to the listserv. S. psitticenia does much better when it is as near the water line as possible. If you have a tray you could tilt the pot to that some traps are in the water and some not. I don't know if that would help though. But I was right that some fungi must attach to them. Tre Message: 5 To: Message-ID: <001501c5569b$bff289b0$d82cde44@hppav> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello, all, I suppose I should introduce myself. My name is Jason, and I've been a lurker on the listserve for about two years now. (Yeah, not so social, me.) My plants include sundews (about 21 different sp.), Sarracenia (13 or so hybrids and sundry,) Drosophyllum, Nepenthes (six sp. and hybrids) and a heap of seeds stubbornly refusing to germinate from anything else I can lay my hands on. Most of this grows under shop lights in my garage, with the exception of the Sarrs, which enjoy my local Louisiana weather. I live in New Orleans, which for the bayou-challenged, is just across Lake Pontchartrain from the endangered Sarracenia site that Mr. Mazur referenced a couple of newsletters ago. I have spoken with Mr. Sanchez, and my family and I (man-oh-man do I have a good wife) have started collecting the plants for rescue. I had originally hoped to use social contacts to create a bog display in the City Park gardens here in New Orleans with some social commentary, but said contacts don't seem to be as thrilled about it as they originally made out to be. I have a couple of leads on other people who may be able to provide space to make a public display with the plants, but if they fall through as well, I'll be calling for the adoption agencies. If you live near New Orleans (I'm sorry, but I'm WAY too nervous to try shipping these things--just digging them up is about to give me a heart attack) and would like to adopt, we already have a few dozen waiting for homes. (Heh--not so easy to find in the dark with a Coleman lantern after work.) I plan to gather as many more this weekend as possible--the site has been partially cleared, but there is still a lot to go, and it doesn't seem that construction is going to start for another couple of weeks yet. Mr. Sanchez also says there are tons of sundews (my son has already collected D. brevifolia from his grandparents' property nearby, so I assume they're the same,) in the area, and I'm keeping my eyes peeled for S. psittacina. Anyway, any advice anyone can give me to ensure safe collecting would be appreciated--many of the sarrs have already flowered and are in growth; not the best time to be uprooting them. Thanks so much Jason ################### From: wildfyre at gmail.com (Bonnie Dodds) Date: Thu May 12 14:03:33 2005 Subject: [CP] Sarracenia leucophylla Hi everyone! I'm looking for a couple S. leucophylla or any other especialy colorful Sarracenia. I don't have much to trade (a few common Drosera) but I'd be willing to buy them. Thanks! -Bonnie ################### From: emilie at sharkbooks.com (Emilie Clark) Date: Thu May 12 15:02:13 2005 Subject: [CP] visiting the Pine Barrens Begin forwarded message: > From: Emilie Clark > Date: May 12, 2005 5:54:21 PM EDT > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Subject: visiting the Pine Barrens > > I'm wondering if anyone can recommend a good place in the Pine Barrens > to go hike and see CPs in the next week. I will be with a small child > in a backpack so it can't be a difficult area to walk in. > > thanks, > > Emilie > > ################### From: emilie at sharkbooks.com (Emilie Clark) Date: Thu May 12 15:03:21 2005 Subject: [CP] CP babysitting in NYC > > > Hi, > I'm an artist who is doing a project using carnivorous plants and I've > been growing them in my studio (here in NYC), in tanks and > windowsills. The project involves using Mary Treat's text from her > book Home Studies in Nature, and will be exhibited in the fall. I > have to go away for a month (5-28-6/26) and I'm trying to find someone > to look after the plants, they can't die! > > I'm looking for someone who would be interested in having a great work > space for a month in exchange for caring for the plants. The studio is > located between SOHO and Tribeca in downtown Manhattan. > > Emilie ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Thu May 12 15:42:56 2005 Subject: [CP] sundews for florida growing conditions This question is mostly aimed at florida CP growers. I'm down in homestead near the tip of florida and i was wondering what kinds of drosera would you recommend. Anything that loves heat and humidity actually. drosera adelae doesnt seem like it would survive the winter as it still gets pretty dry almost like southern california conditions drosera rotundifolia.. well duh, rarely any frost! obviously the natives d. capillaris, brevifolia, and filiformis do well. i have a d. binata 'marston dragon' which is going nuts at the minute. anyone recommend any others? perhaps d.indica but what else? id like to collect the most species i can grow outside. i think thatd be really neat. ################### From: CTSsangha at aol.com (CTSsangha@aol.com) Date: Thu May 12 15:52:51 2005 Subject: [CP] S.psittaccina spring disease I have one of the "Giant" psitts. I abandoned it at my Dad's for a year and a half and when I retrieved it this spring I had a plant with 5 offsets that was easily 2 feet across. I left it in a big rubbermaid container and it lived most of the time completely submerged. Thank goodness for the container as it was very dry here last year and I was hoping it survived. My other psitts. did not ever get that big, although they were healthy. I get the best growth and a healthy plant by them being almost submerged. ################### From: mrg40 at student.canterbury.ac.nz (Mikala Graham) Date: Thu May 12 17:05:20 2005 Subject: [CP] S.psittaccina spring disease Dave Evans, From my naive experience with psittacina some years ago (before I had any idea what I was doing)You could well be right with the small pot issue. Being the over-the-top (but little knowledge) enthusiast that I was, I re-potted my small psittacina into a MASSIVE pot about 25-30cm diameter at the top, and at least as deep (it was a small plant). The plant thrived all season, no problems (even though I repotted it smack in the middle of the growing season into pure sphagnum as I recall). Alas, my stupidity won over as when it was going into winter hibernation I thought I had killed it, so I stopped watering, which in effect DID kill the poor wee thing. In the time it had, it did get some impressive growth and colour going though. Mikala Dave Evans wrote: > Dear Stefano, > > > I have trouble with _S. psittacina_ also. You might try to grow it > differently than your other _Sarracenia_. I feel _S. psittacina_, _S. > purpurea_ and _S. rosea_ are less tolerant of dry soil then the other > species. Additionally, _S. psittacina_ has a very awkward shape which is > not as amendable to standard, in a pot, cultivation. > Since they are getting many fungal problems, I am inclined to > suspect there might be some problem related to the temperature. Perhaps the > seasonal weather is different enough to have a negative affect on the > species' health? > I have been more successful with _S. ps._ using what would appear to > be over sized pots and having the soil level lower than in the pots for the > other species. Basically, I think many _S. psittacina_ are grown in too > small a pot to provide the correct environment. > > > Dave Evans > ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Thu May 12 19:07:01 2005 Subject: [CP] Carnivorous sculptures Hmmm... They'd be great in my front yard! TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Thu May 12 19:23:20 2005 Subject: [CP] Stuck on Mars Well, that's a good clarification you make there, Bar. Otherwise your wife might start getting very suspicious of you hanging about on this listserv, for fear you get stuck on even more listserv members. In a message dated 5/9/2005 9:46:06 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, bamrice@ucdavis.edu writes: I've nearly gotten stuck in it, myself. (sugar sand on NJ, that is, not on Mars.) TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: writerguy67 at aol.com (writerguy67@aol.com) Date: Fri May 13 06:49:36 2005 Subject: [CP] If I could go anywhere in the world for CP ..... Is a question I started asking myself last night, when I realized that I just earned a free trip around the world (starting and stopping in Washington DC, same direction, as many stops as I have time for, anywhere United Airlines flies). This may be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. I'd like to make the most of it (I have until the end of this year to do this). So -- a very odd request. Anyone willing to host an ugly American (literally, not figuratively) for a quick CP stop? Although the flight will be free, I'd still like to do the rest on the (very) cheap as well. So I'm asking for offers -- a place to sleep, a tour guide, and a chance to see CP in the wild and in collections. Australia? South Africa? Asia? South America? Europe? What can I offer in return? Hopefully interesting conversation, a laptop full of photos of North American carnivorous plants in the wild, and a return offer to put you up at my house (Northern Virginia, USA) and take you out in the field in the southeast USA if you happen to (a) be coming to the US for next year's ICPS International Convention (I live about three hours from the venue) and/or any other time you're looking for a chance to see Sarracenia, Drosera, Utricularia, in America. Oh, and my undying gratitude. Please reply to me off-list (writerguy67@aol.com) And thanks ... in advance! Jay Lechtman Northern Virginia USA ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Fri May 13 09:13:55 2005 Subject: [CP] Wanted: Native Pinguicula caerulea,lutea,and pumila Looking for these US native butterworts. Violet Butterwort Pinguicula caerulea Yellow Butterwort Pinguicula lutea Dwarf Butterwort Pinguicula pumila Wolf ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Fri May 13 09:19:10 2005 Subject: [CP] Emailing me? Please,if you plan on emailing me,I exspect you repond back when I reply to your emails. Makes no sense to email me and I respond to you,and you don't respond back. Wolf ################### From: aceska at telus.net (Adolf Ceska) Date: Fri May 13 11:06:44 2005 Subject: [CP] Emailing me? Yes, I am honoring your request and I am replying your email, although I did not fully understand it. If you reply to this my email, I hope that I would not have to reply you again. All the best, Adolf > -----Original Message----- > From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com > [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On Behalf Of Harry Q > Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 9:19 AM > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Subject: [CP] Emailing me? > > > Please,if you plan on emailing me,I exspect you repond back > when I reply to > your emails. Makes no sense to email me and I respond to > you,and you don't > respond back. > > Wolf > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: rhillier at swconnection.com (Rick Hillier) Date: Fri May 13 13:11:43 2005 Subject: [CP] Where In S. Ontario Can I Go To See D. anglica In The Wild Greetings, I am hoping to get some time to go bog trotting again with my daughter within the next few weeks, as the orchids (hopefully) will be in bloom. I have a new camera and want to try out some serious (for a change) macro photography. Anyway, the one elusive plant that I have never been able find in the wild is Drosera anglica. I do have a nice specimen in my bog garden, but I want to build a collection of photos of the plants in habitat. I know of plenty of D. linearis sites, and everything I read says that I should be able to find anglica nearby, but I have scored a big fat zero. I also would like to find some nice stands of D. rotundifolia in the same locales to get some good pics as well. I visited the only decent stand within reasonable distance of Kitchener, Ontario that I know of, and it was all overgrown and not a "dew" to be found. If someone could email me off list (at rhillier@swconnection.com) and recommend some good locations in and around Kitchener, ON (hopefully with directions), I would really appreciate it. Regards, Rick Hillier ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Your Name) Date: Fri May 13 13:13:11 2005 Subject: [CP] Any CPers in NYC area? ################### From: rhillier at swconnection.com (Rick Hillier) Date: Fri May 13 13:15:36 2005 Subject: [CP] Bog Garden Starting Out Slowly Greetings, With the goofy, cold spring we've had so far, my bog is way behind what it was last year. Here it is mid-May and it's a whopping 8 degrees celcius outside. Everything in the garden looks healthy, but growth has just barely started with the purp and flavas just beginning to break and show flower buds. How are everyone else's bogs doing this year? >>> Rick <<< ################### From: murevarn at areteadsl.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5kan_Murevaern?=) Date: Fri May 13 13:44:01 2005 Subject: [CP] CP:s near Brisbane Australia Hello Everyone, I am going to Brisbane in the great CP-land Australia on buisness and would like to take the chance to see some CP:s in the area. I was thinking someone on this list would have some suggestions of where to go. I will probably not have so much time to go to far but when looking in the last book of Allen Lowrie there should be able to find plants near Brisbane and of course further north in Queensland... ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Fri May 13 16:14:55 2005 Subject: [CP] All Yellow Venus Flytrap-Dionaea muscipala var. lutea? Can't remeber who it was,but some one said they had All Yellow Venus Flytrap-Dionaea muscipala var. lutea for me? I lost the email,and forgot to write it down. Wolf ################### From: ZielinskiJ at edaw.com (Jim Zielinski) Date: Sat May 14 14:33:38 2005 Subject: [CP] Companion plants question... Hello, all - Again, is anyone familiar with Juncus effusus "Unicorn," or corkscrew rush? Is it a reasonable companion plant to Sarracenia, et al. in the bog garden, or would it be competitive? - z ################### From: gregharmison at houston.rr.com (Greg Harmison) Date: Sat May 14 20:49:35 2005 Subject: [CP] Companion plants question... It is not very vigorous in Houston, so I would suspect it would not present a competition problem. Kept moist, it seems to do well, but is still well behaved. Greg Harmison ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 4:32 PM > Hello, all - > > Again, is anyone familiar with Juncus effusus "Unicorn," or corkscrew > rush? Is it a reasonable companion plant to Sarracenia, et al. in the > bog garden, or would it be competitive? > > - z > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Sun May 15 10:55:20 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: should i put it outside? i have a s.flava ssp. purpea (excuse me if i spelled anything wrong) its small, but doesnt seem to be doing much growing. im wondering if i should put its outside? its been around 60 degrees or so at day and a bit more chilly at night with the ocasional rain. should i put it out? perhaps put it in my sunroom for now? right now i have it in a basement under grow lights. any advice? p.s. how bout my bladderworts? -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Sun May 15 14:08:26 2005 Subject: [CP] Should I put it outside Jon asked about whether he should put a Sarracenia flava ssp.purpurea outside at this time of year. I'm not quite sure which plant you are talking about here, Jon. Are we talking about Sarracenia flava ssp. cupurea or maybe S.venosa ssp. purpurea or S.venosa purpurea ssp. purpurea. Sorry if I haven't written these species quite right, I should know better if I haven't. I'm not quite sure where you are in the US, but assuming it is not Alaska and your temperature is fairly average, you would be fine to put any Sarracenia outside at this time of year. Sarracenia will put up with a lot of cold, you don't need to be so namby pamby with them. In the UK, we have the greenhouses go down to freezing with no problems. In fact, you may get problems with your plants if they are not allowed to get cold enough during the winter, they really need the cold spell during the winter. I can't see any Sarracenia having problems outside at this time of year, apart from rotting pitchers if it really rains a lot. Probably not a big problem where you are. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sun May 15 15:31:05 2005 Subject: [CP] Trade List I have these plants to trade or sell (request prices via private email): I have cuttings of N. alata N. coccenica 'degroot clone' N. 'Miranda' N. 'Holland Hybrid' Plantlets of P. moranensis 'G' P. ehlersiana P. 'Tina' P. 'Enigma' P. 'Titan' P. oblongata x. ehlersiana D. slackii S. 'Dana's Delight' Mature D. tokansis D. capensis 'wide leaf' and 'alba' D. spatulata D. prolifera U. bisquamata U. subulata 'Jacksonville, Fl' U. floridana U. gibba 'Sawgrass Country Club, Fl' U. inflata 'Jacksonville, FL' G. violacea 'Giant' S. 'Dana's Delight' S. purpurea x. (S. flava x. rubra) Tre Bond I am looking for Neps of both Highland and Lowland expecially cuttings of N. ampullaria, ,N. maxima "JD hybrid", N. campanulata, N. albomarginata as well as Androvanda locations, Cephalotus plantlets, Byblis, and other Genlisa ################### From: flyingcamel at gmail.com (flyingcamel) Date: Sun May 15 17:32:21 2005 Subject: [CP] Trade List Hello, I'm interested in P. ehlersiae, 'Titan,' 'Enigma,' and oblongata x ehlersiae. What are the prices for them? And I've never heard of P. oblongata and can't find any pictures. Does it have another name? Thanks, Cynthia On 5/15/05, Tre Bond wrote: > I have these plants to trade or sell (request prices via private email): > I have cuttings of > N. alata > N. coccenica 'degroot clone' > N. 'Miranda' > N. 'Holland Hybrid' > > Plantlets of > P. moranensis 'G' > P. ehlersiana > P. 'Tina' > P. 'Enigma' > P. 'Titan' > P. oblongata x. ehlersiana > > D. slackii > > S. 'Dana's Delight' > > Mature > D. tokansis > D. capensis 'wide leaf' and 'alba' > D. spatulata > D. prolifera > > U. bisquamata > U. subulata 'Jacksonville, Fl' > U. floridana > U. gibba 'Sawgrass Country Club, Fl' > U. inflata 'Jacksonville, FL' > > G. violacea 'Giant' > > S. 'Dana's Delight' > S. purpurea x. (S. flava x. rubra) > > Tre Bond > > I am looking for Neps of both Highland and Lowland expecially cuttings of N. ampullaria, ,N. maxima "JD hybrid", N. campanulata, N. albomarginata as well as Androvanda locations, Cephalotus plantlets, Byblis, and other Genlisa > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: flyingcamel at gmail.com (flyingcamel) Date: Sun May 15 17:33:55 2005 Subject: [CP] Sorry!-- Re: Trade List Sorry, I didn't mean to send that to everyone! Forgot to click the extra gmail buttons for changing the to: field. On 5/15/05, flyingcamel wrote: > Hello, > > I'm interested in P. ehlersiae, 'Titan,' 'Enigma,' and oblongata x > ehlersiae. What are the prices for them? And I've never heard of P. > oblongata and can't find any pictures. Does it have another name? > > Thanks, > Cynthia > > > On 5/15/05, Tre Bond wrote: > > I have these plants to trade or sell (request prices via private email): > > I have cuttings of > > N. alata > > N. coccenica 'degroot clone' > > N. 'Miranda' > > N. 'Holland Hybrid' > > > > Plantlets of > > P. moranensis 'G' > > P. ehlersiana > > P. 'Tina' > > P. 'Enigma' > > P. 'Titan' > > P. oblongata x. ehlersiana > > > > D. slackii > > > > S. 'Dana's Delight' > > > > Mature > > D. tokansis > > D. capensis 'wide leaf' and 'alba' > > D. spatulata > > D. prolifera > > > > U. bisquamata > > U. subulata 'Jacksonville, Fl' > > U. floridana > > U. gibba 'Sawgrass Country Club, Fl' > > U. inflata 'Jacksonville, FL' > > > > G. violacea 'Giant' > > > > S. 'Dana's Delight' > > S. purpurea x. (S. flava x. rubra) > > > > Tre Bond > > > > I am looking for Neps of both Highland and Lowland expecially cuttings of N. ampullaria, ,N. maxima "JD hybrid", N. campanulata, N. albomarginata as well as Androvanda locations, Cephalotus plantlets, Byblis, and other Genlisa > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Cp mailing list > > Cp@omnisterra.com > > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > ################### From: ClaraVoiAunt at aol.com (ClaraVoiAunt@aol.com) Date: Sun May 15 21:11:50 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Juncus efusses Hey there Jim, In Zone 8 and 9 it can become invasive. It also self seeds. So I would be very careful how I introduce it to my bog. I would keep it in a no hole container of some kind, as the roots will take over most of your bog. Also snip off flowers/ seeds when you see them appear. Not quite sure what the seed looks like,but i would cut off the top of the blade when a little bundle of flower/ seeds appearsabout 2/3 of the way from the soil level. Thanx for listening and keep 'em plants growin' Coming to you form the heart of whine country, I mean wine Lois In a message dated 5/15/2005 12:02:35 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: Message: 1 To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hello, all - Again, is anyone familiar with Juncus effusus "Unicorn," or corkscrew rush? Is it a reasonable companion plant to Sarracenia, et al. in the bog garden, or would it be competitive? - z ################### From: mtalt at hort.net (Marge Talt) Date: Mon May 16 00:42:12 2005 Subject: [CP] Should I put it outside I agree, it should be fine outside as long as it's not going to freeze. But, if this plant has been inside, even under lights, it will need to be hardened off before it's put out in full sun or it will burn. Put it out in a shady spot for a day or so then gradually move it into more sun over a period of days until it's in full sun. Marge Talt, zone 7 Maryland mtalt@hort.net Editor: Gardening in Shade Shadyside Garden Designs ----------------------------------------------- Current Article: Until April 11 http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/shade_gardening ------------------------------------------------ Complete Index of Articles by Category and Date http://mtalt.hort.net/article-index.html ---------- > From: David Ahrens > > Jon asked about whether he should put a Sarracenia flava ssp.purpurea > outside at this time of year. > I'm not quite sure which plant you are talking about here, Jon. Are we > talking about Sarracenia flava ssp. cupurea or maybe S.venosa ssp. purpurea > or S.venosa purpurea ssp. purpurea. Sorry if I haven't written these > species quite right, I should know better if I haven't. > I'm not quite sure where you are in the US, but assuming it is not Alaska > and your temperature is fairly average, you would be fine to put any > Sarracenia outside at this time of year. > Sarracenia will put up with a lot of cold, you don't need to be so namby > pamby with them. > In the UK, we have the greenhouses go down to freezing with no problems. In > fact, you may get problems with your plants if they are not allowed to get > cold enough during the winter, they really need the cold spell during the > winter. > I can't see any Sarracenia having problems outside at this time of year, > apart from rotting pitchers if it really rains a lot. Probably not a big > problem where you are. > Regards > David Ahrens > London. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: carl.mazur at ncdsb.com (Mazur, Carl) Date: Mon May 16 06:06:28 2005 Subject: [CP] Storing Sarracenia Pollen Hey folks, I've got a plant that is going to flower about 1 week before a second that I want to cross pollinate with. Has anyone had any luck storing Sarracenia pollen, if so, can you lend some advice. Way back when some told me to collect the pollen and store in aluminum foil in the fridge until I'm ready to use it. Then take it out, let it warm to room temperature and pollinate away! Is this OK, or should I store the pollen in the freezer and thaw it when ready? Any help would be great, infact any help soon would be fabulous as the flower that I need to collect the pollen from is going to open likely today or tomorrow. Thanks Carl ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Mon May 16 06:36:32 2005 Subject: [CP] Storing Sarracenia Pollen Hi Carl, Fridge should be fine if you're planning on doing the pollination within a week. The freezer method is better for longer term storage, as the pollen tends to go mouldy in the fridge if kept there too long. The pollen does seem to lose some of its viability when stored (as indicated by lower seed production), so make sure to try and store as much as possible for best chances of success! Cheers! Chris > >Hey folks, > >I've got a plant that is going to flower about 1 week before a second that >I >want to cross pollinate with. Has anyone had any luck storing Sarracenia >pollen, if so, can you lend some advice. > >Way back when some told me to collect the pollen and store in aluminum foil >in the fridge until I'm ready to use it. Then take it out, let it warm to >room temperature and pollinate away! Is this OK, or should I store the >pollen in the freezer and thaw it when ready? > >Any help would be great, infact any help soon would be fabulous as the >flower that I need to collect the pollen from is going to open likely today >or tomorrow. > >Thanks >Carl > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: captotterboy at hot-shot.com (jeff spiegelman) Date: Mon May 16 07:58:58 2005 Subject: [CP] D. Regia and S. minor Hey, I have a few questions about some cp things that have been annoying me. Its a long list, but ill start at the top. I have a S. minor sitting right next to me that refuses to get any new growth. The winter leaves have been dying away slowly, but no new growth has appeared. It is sitting in a tray of purified water on my desk in a north facing window. I have a grow light possitioned above it for added light and i mist the plant every day for added humidity. any thoughts? Problem 2. I have a d. regia in a terrarium that acts very strange. It will have one or two leaves on it for weeks, that for a week it will explode with growth, and than the leaves will die back to one or two again. It may have something to do with the soil knat generations that keep appearing in my terrarium (im not growing any seedlings, so ive been told that the knats arnt bad). anyway, someone let me know. The new guy, Jeff -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Mon May 16 11:40:20 2005 Subject: [CP] D. Regia and S. minor Hi Jeff, >start at the top. I have a S. minor sitting right next to me that refuses >to get any new growth. The winter leaves have been dying away slowly, but >no new growth has appeared. It is sitting in a tray of purified water on >my desk in a north facing window. I have a grow light possitioned >above it for added light and i mist the plant every day for added humidity. > any thoughts? Problem Bad location for any Sarracenia. Sarrs never do too well (especially mature ones) under grow lights, and never do well in north facing locations. Your plant should be moved to where it's getting more direct sunlight, preferably outdoors. Sarrs need a cool dormancy, so most of the time, they do best outdoors year round. If it has been under lights, you'll want to harden it off slowly before exposing it to full sunlight+different humidity/temperature. Even then, you'll find S.minor is not the most rapid of growers, especially if you are in a more northerly climate. 2. I have a d. regia in a terrarium that acts very strange. It will have one or two leaves on it for weeks, that for a week it will explode with growth, and than the leaves will die back to one or two again. It may have something to do with the soil knat generations that keep appearing in my terrarium (im not growing any seedlings, so ive been told that the knats arnt bad). anyway, someone let me know. > The fungus gnats may be a potential explanation, since these plants do need food to flourish. However, D.regia is known to be a potentially picky grower (doesn't enjoy disturbance), and does go through growth spurts. In habit, they often experience a cool dormancy period as well, where the leaves will die back to a smaller rosette, or growth stops altogether. To be successful with this plant, I think you need to take this dormancy period into account. Cheers! Chris ################### From: o.marthaler at bluewin.ch (o.marthaler@bluewin.ch) Date: Mon May 16 11:54:54 2005 Subject: [CP] Where In S. Ontario Can I Go To See D. anglica In The Wild Hi Rick! Funny, I've just been in the wild for three days, and have just seen thousands of droserae anglicae over in neighbouring France (800-1200 metres high)! Sorry I can't show you the sites, as I myself would LOVE to see dr linearis in its natural habitat ! Shall we swop homes for a couple of trecks ?! Cheers, Olivier from CH >Message: 1 >Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 16:11:33 -0400 >From: "Rick Hillier" >Subject: [CP] Where In S. Ontario Can I Go To See D. anglica In The > Wild >To: >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Greetings, > >I am hoping to get some time to go bog trotting again with my daughter >within the next few weeks, as the orchids (hopefully) will be in bloom. >I >have a new camera and want to try out some serious (for a change) macro >photography. > >Anyway, the one elusive plant that I have never been able find in the wild >is Drosera anglica. I do have a nice specimen in my bog garden, but I want >to build a collection of photos of the plants in habitat. > >I know of plenty of D. linearis sites, and everything I read says that I >should be able to find anglica nearby, but I have scored a big fat zero. > >I also would like to find some nice stands of D. rotundifolia in the same >locales to get some good pics as well. I visited the only decent stand >within reasonable distance of Kitchener, Ontario that I know of, and it was >all overgrown and not a "dew" to be found. > >If someone could email me off list (at rhillier@swconnection.com) and >recommend some good locations in and around Kitchener, ON (hopefully with >directions), I would really appreciate it. > >Regards, > >Rick Hillier > ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu) Date: Mon May 16 19:18:14 2005 Subject: [CP] P. oblongiloba Dear Cynthia, Yep, it does have another name, _Pinguicula oblongiloba_, I think Tre just got the spelling mixed up. Apparently, it is somewhat intermedia between _P. moranensis_ and _P. stolonifera_. No photos of that one yet, sorry. That hybrid is really neat, BTW. Dave Evans > Hello, > > I'm interested in.... ...and oblongiloba x ehlersiae. I've never heard > of *P. oblongata* and can't find any pictures. Does it have another name? > > Thanks, > Cynthia ################### From: rhillier at swconnection.com (Rick Hillier) Date: Tue May 17 05:23:37 2005 Subject: [CP] Where In S. Ontario Can I Go To See D. anglica In The Wild Hi Olivier, That would be a cool thing to try, if it were ever feasible. >>> Rick <<< >Hi Rick! >Funny, I've just been in the wild for three days, and have just seen thousands >of droserae anglicae over in neighbouring France (800-1200 metres high)! >Sorry I can't show you the sites, as I myself would LOVE to see dr linearis >in its natural habitat ! >Shall we swop homes for a couple of trecks ?! >Cheers, >Olivier from CH ################### From: janflisek at seznam.cz (Jan Flisek) Date: Tue May 17 11:45:09 2005 Subject: [CP] ALDROVANDA VESICULOSA AND AQUATIC UTRICULARIA SPECIES ALDROVANDA VESICULOSA AND AQUATIC UTRICULARIA SPECIES FOR SALE Institute of Botany in Trebon, Czech Republic, offers for sale: A) Aldrovanda vesiculosa turions for CP growers, scientific or Nature Conservation organizations, for cultivation or (re)introduction activities. The plants from East Poland are cultivated outdoors. They will be sent by post mail, as turions enclosed in a tiny PE tube, from November to May. Price: 5 USD (or 5 EUR/turion) minimum order: 10 turions; any order over 50 turions: price 3 USD/turion (or 3 EUR). For the cultivation instructions see the paper by L. Adamec (1997): "How to grow Aldrovanda vesiculosa outdoors" in the special issue of CPN 26: 85-88. The instructions may be found on-line (www.bestcarnivorousplants.com/aldrovanda/) or sent on request. B) Aldrovanda vesiculosa turions of red temperate Hungarian plants for outdoor growing. This is the only red temperate Aldrovanda population and has recently been taken into culture. The turions will be sent by post mail in a tiny PE tube from November to May. Price: 10 USD (or 10 EUR/turion) minimum order: 3 turions. Limited amount of the turions is available. The cultivation instructions are the same as for the Polish plants. C) Australian (sub)tropical Aldrovanda vesiculosa plants for indoor cultivation. As dependent on light conditions these plants can be red. Plants from an indoor culture of four Australian populations are available (they are the same in culture): a) Subtropical: East-coast Australia, S. of Sydney, NSW; b) Tropical: S. of Darwin, N Australia,NT. c) Tropical: Kimberley, NW Australia, WA. d) Subtropical: Esperance Bay, SW Australia, WA. The Australian plants grow over the whole year at temperatures above 18 oC and do not form turions. At lower temperatures, they form weakly dormant turions. In temperate regions, they may also be grown outdoors over summer season. Apical segments ca. 4 cm long are sent by post mail in plastic vials or tubes, from March to November, when outdoor temperature is above 5 oC. For the cultivation conditions see the paper by L. Adamec (1999): "The biology and cultivation of red Australian Aldrovanda vesiculosa" in CPN 28(4): 128-132 (also on-line). Price: 8 USD (or 8 EUR) /plant; minimum order (regardless of the populations): 4 plants. D) Turions of European temperate aquatic Utricularia species for outdoor cultivation: U. australis, U. vulgaris, U. minor, U. bremii, U. intermedia, U. ochroleuca. Turions are sent by post mail in tiny PE tubes, from November to June. Price: 2 USD (or 2 EUR) /turion; minimum order (regardless of the species): 10 turions. E) Plants or dormant turions of Utricularia dimorphanta. U. dimorphanta is an aquatic Japanese endemic species, formerly growing on the whole Honshu Island (subtropical to warm temperate climate), but is critically endangered recently. Growing of this species is the same as that of Australian Aldrovanda. However, it prefers more shade and temperatures >20 oC. Apical segments ca. 4 cm long or turions are sent by post mail in plastic vials or tubes, at above zero temperatures for the whole year. Price: 8 USD (or 8 EUR) /plant or turion. Minimum order: 4 plants or turions. F) American subtropical aquatic Utricularia species for indoor or outdoor cultivation: U. floridana, U. purpurea, U. radiata, U. inflata, U. resupinata, U. gibba. These ever growing species can be grown indoors, like Australian Aldrovanda (see above), or at temperatures above 5 oC outdoors from spring to autumn, like temperate Aldrovanda (see above). Apical shoot segments ca. 6 cm long or small bunches of U. gibba are sent by post mail in plastic vials or tubes, at above zero temperatures for the whole year. Limited amount of albinotic form of U. purpurea is also available. Price: U. floridana, U. purpurea, U. inflata, and U. radiata: 3 USD (or 3 EUR) /plant; U. resupinata: 5 USD (or 5 EUR) /plant (bunch of 4 leaves); U. gibba: 2 USD (or 2 EUR) /bunch. Minimum order: 5 plants or bunches of single species, for U. resupinata: 3 plants (limited amount is available). G) American temperate aquatic Utricularia macrorhiza for outdoor cultivation. This species forming turions reminds the very similar European species, U. vulgaris, and can be grown in the same way. Price: 3 USD (or 3 EUR) /turion. Minimum order: together with turions of the other Utricularia species 10 turions. H) Asian tropical aquatic Utricularia aurea for indoor cultivation. This ever growing species from Malaysia should be grown indoors, like Australian Aldrovanda, at temperatures above 19 oC. Limited amount of plants of this species are available. Apical shoot segments ca. 5 cm long are sent by post mail in plastic vials or tubes, from May to October. Price: 5 USD (or 5 EUR) /plant. Minimum order: 4 plants. I) Australian subtropical Utricularia volubilis plants for indoor cultivation. This submerged aquatic species from SW Australia represents a botanical rarity. Its filamentous leaves can be up to 30 cm long and its pigmented traps up to 5 mm large. The plant is weakly affixed to the bottom by means of long stolons. The cultivation is the same as for Australian Aldrovanda plants (see above). Optimum temperatures are 18-26 oC, minimum ones ca. 5 oC. The species prefers slight shading. Plants with leaves longer than 4 cm are sent by post mail in plastic vials or tubes, at above zero temperatures for the whole year. Price: a) Smaller plants with leaves ca. 4-5 cm long: 12 USD (or 12 EUR) /plant. b) Bigger plants with leaves over 8 cm long: 20 USD (or 20 EUR) /plant. Minimum order: 3 plants. Invoice can be sent on request by the Institute of Botany. Payment should be realised as direct sending the due sum in cash, in registered letter to the below address. Wire transfer of money to our bank account or international postal money order is also possible. Checks or cards are not acceptable. Payment in advance, prior to sending the plants, is required. Payment in only USD or EUR is accepted (1 USD = ca. 1 EUR). The total postage for one mail is 5 USD (or 5 EUR) for light mails or 10 USD (or 10 EUR) for heavier mails. Contact address: Lubomir ADAMEC Institute of Botany, Dukelska 135, CZ-379 82 TREBON, Czech Republic E-mail: adamec@butbn.cas.cz; ################### From: hkobayashi4 at hotmail.com (Hideka Kobayashi) Date: Tue May 17 14:16:44 2005 Subject: [CP] ALDROVANDA VESICULOSA AND AQUATIC UTRICULARIA SPECIES You know I have been wondering. Do I need a Phyto for this? Hideka ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Tue May 17 14:39:07 2005 Subject: [CP] Ping Thanks Dave for correcting my spelling. ################### From: ClaraVoiAunt at aol.com (ClaraVoiAunt@aol.com) Date: Tue May 17 18:24:27 2005 Subject: [CP] Keeping utricularia species pure ################### From: netmarketer1 at aol.com (netmarketer1@aol.com) Date: Tue May 17 21:58:52 2005 Subject: [CP] P. ehlersiae x oblongiloba Hi, Here's a link to a pic of P. ehlersiae x oblongiloba that I grow. I do have P. oblongiloba, however it is in dormancy right now and not much to see. The hybrid leans very much to the shape of oblongiloba leaf just to give a hint of what it does look like. ################### From: captotterboy at hot-shot.com (jeff spiegelman) Date: Wed May 18 10:08:35 2005 Subject: [CP] d. spatulata, D. capensis, and D. Californica Hey all, Thanks for your help with my first two problems... now i have two more and one question. The question is; I have a d. spatulata that is flowering quite well. Will it self polinate and produce seed, do i have to help it, and how do i harvest the seeds? As for my problems, lets start with the D. Californica. The plants winter leaves are slowly dying away, and it has plenty of healthy green looking new growth. But none of the leaves have opened into traps yet. SOme of the leaves have been there for weeks in a semi-curled thing. Whats going on? Problem two. For some ungodly reason... i cant seem to grow d. capensis. I have tried several times with many plants. They grow well enough for a few weeks, and than just die from the growing point outward. I had a pot of three plants in it and all three plants did this at the same time. This same thing has happened several different times. I seem to be able to grow most plants well enough, but fail completly on this plants which is supposed to be very easy. What am i doing wrong? Thanks everyone, Jeff -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm ################### From: ZielinskiJ at edaw.com (Jim Zielinski) Date: Wed May 18 12:24:51 2005 Subject: [CP] Terrestrial Bladderwort question & LSoH Can anybody recommend some easy terrestrial utrics that will do well in an outdoor bog in the Southeast? I'm in Zone 7. I recall, years ago, picking one that was a little more tropical (yeeears ago, forgot the species) and it took over my terrarium. This is a different setup...outside and temperate. So, any suggestions? I'm about to do some ordering, and figured I'd get this one in the hopper right quick. ;) THANKS! - jEz p.s.: Oh, yes - have any of the CP'ers here been involved with "Little Shop of Horrors" onstage besides me? Just curious. ################### From: h7n at talk21.com (Nigel Hurneyman) Date: Wed May 18 12:49:37 2005 Subject: [CP] Dionaea Overwintering Observation Due to space problems, I relegated two batches of VFTs to a cold frame for the winter (UK). One batch has long narrow petioles and small traps and I think is called the 'spider clone' by some growers, the other came from Stan Lampard and has large traps. The spider form overwintered as very short, wideish petioles with vestigial traps. The large-trapped form disppeared completely and I was concerned for its wellbeing. However, now that Spring has sprung, both forms are doing nicely. Belated congratulations to 'Nepenthes Dave' on buying the number plate M1 VFT. Can we now expect 'Sundew Matt' to bid for P1 NGS? NigelH ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - want a free and easy way to contact your friends online? http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ################### From: christoph_belanger2001 at yahoo.com (Christoph Belanger) Date: Wed May 18 13:11:39 2005 Subject: [CP] Vacationing in Southern SC Just booked our vacation. I'ts been a long time since I've seen Sarracenia in the wild and I am looking forward to spending some time in the field... I would be interested in hearing from anyone who will be in the area in August, I would also be interested in hearing about any "must see" places in the Savannah/Hilton Head area. Thanks. Christoph ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Wed May 18 13:31:28 2005 Subject: [CP] Not being able to grow D.capensis Jeff said:- 'For some ungodly reason... i cant seem to grow d. capensis.' There is a serious chance of you being thrown off the listserv for sheer incompetence, I mean we all killed our first VFT when we were 14, but this is being ridiculous. Seriously, you need to find what is wrong with the conditions that you have this plant in. In the UK, we use an unheated greenhouse, although a heated one will be OK. You do realise that this plant will die back for the winter ? And come back in the spring, I hope . Most people find that, if you keep the plant wet, with plenty of sun, it will thrive, and that is that. I do wonder if it is getting too hot though, if it is possible to do that. The US can be far warmer than the UK at times. Apart from it getting too hot, I can't see it getting too cold. Do you allow the plant to dry out ? That won't do it any good either. I can't think of much else. Have you tried a trucker's listserv ? They won't tell you how to grow capensis, but you might have more luck with trucks. For those that read my posting about my personal number plate that I bought a week ago. Someone replied to me in private, but I don't think that anyone else could be bothered. Well. I've just received the 'Certificate of Entitlement' for the plate, so it's genuinely mine now. After thinking about it a bit, I think that I could have a lot of fun with it. I don't think that I will regret it afterall. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: nickplummer at nc.rr.com (nickplummer@nc.rr.com) Date: Wed May 18 14:00:53 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Aldrovanda Hideka wrote: > You know I have been wondering. Do I need a Phyto for this? > To import them legally, you would need a phytosanitary certificate and an import permit. If I remember correctly one of the subscribers to this list recounted a tale of woe (and significant financial loss) when an undeclared shipment of Nepenthes was intercepted. Nick ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Wed May 18 16:22:49 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Jeff Jeff you should thank your lucky stars you can't grow capensis. Talk about a weed. Unless you arein Darlingtonia's native area or similar I doubt you will have much success with it. Obviously some crazy people (like myself) have built elaborate contraptions to grow this plant but most fail. Summer just gets way too hot most places. Tre Message: 5 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <20050518170823.10D154BEAE@ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hey all, Thanks for your help with my first two problems... now i have two more and one question. The question is; I have a d. spatulata that is flowering quite well. Will it self polinate and produce seed, do i have to help it, and how do i harvest the seeds? As for my problems, lets start with the D. Californica. The plants winter leaves are slowly dying away, and it has plenty of healthy green looking new growth. But none of the leaves have opened into traps yet. SOme of the leaves have been there for weeks in a semi-curled thing. Whats going on? Problem two. For some ungodly reason... i cant seem to grow d. capensis. I have tried several times with many plants. They grow well enough for a few weeks, and than just die from the growing point outward. I had a pot of three plants in it and all three plants did this at the same time. This same thing has happened several different times. I seem to be able to grow most plants well enough, but fail completly on this plants which is supposed to be very easy. What am i doing wrong? Thanks everyone, Jeff -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com End of Cp Digest, Vol 24, Issue 19 ********************************** ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Wed May 18 16:50:18 2005 Subject: [CP] drosera seeds is it better to sow on damp milled sphagnum or damp sand? ################### From: dhw at e-atelier.com (David Wong) Date: Wed May 18 17:40:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Darlingtonia Californica I've had darlingtonia growing for over 20+ years...it has self seeded and at one time became a weed. But that was only after years of trying to grow this beast under the usual conditions of trying them out in pots indoors/outdoors etc. The best way to grow them in a soggy pond / trench with 50:50 peat/sand mix, topped with sphagnum moss and to buy one of those cheapo pond recirculating pond (fountain) pumps...selling for approx. C$20 here in Vancouver Canada. Yes the weather here may be cooler than say in the tropics, but the trick is to grow them in cool circulating water. The temperature gets quite warm for a few months (weeks over 25 degrees centigrade / 72 F) in Vancouver. Some of my old CP buddies grew them in large styrofoam containers (ie. Coolers)... I remember seeing them float these boxes full of Darlingtonia in their Ponds. And as for capensis... I've got these buggers (along with their cousins D. Binata) growing in the most unexpected of places (eg. My compost bins) after over 20 years in my garden bog...even after severe winter frosts. David Wong -- On 5/18/05 4:22 PM, "Tre Bond" wrote: > > > > > > > Jeff you should thank your lucky stars you can't grow capensis. Talk > about a weed. Unless you arein Darlingtonia's native area or similar > I doubt you will have much success with it. Obviously some crazy > people (like myself) have built elaborate contraptions to grow this > plant but most fail. Summer just gets way too hot most places. > > Tre > > > > Message: 5 Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 12:08:23 -0500 From: "jeff > spiegelman" Subject: [CP] d. spatulata, D. capensis, and D. > Californica To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: > <20050518170823.10D154BEAE@ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com> Content-Type: > text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hey all, Thanks for your help with my first two problems... now i > have two more and one question. The question is; I have a d. > spatulata that is flowering quite well. Will it self polinate and > produce seed, do i have to help it, and how do i harvest the seeds? > As for my problems, lets start with the D. Californica. The plants > winter leaves are slowly dying away, and it has plenty of healthy > green looking new growth. But none of the leaves have opened into > traps yet. SOme of the leaves have been there for weeks in a > semi-curled thing. Whats going on? Problem two. For some ungodly > reason... i cant seem to grow d. capensis. I have tried several > times with many plants. They grow well enough for a few weeks, and > than just die from the growing point outward. I had a pot of three > plants in it and all three plants did this at the same time. This > same thing has happened several different times. I seem to be able to > grow most plants well enough, but fail completly on this plants which > is supposed to be very easy. What am i doing wrong? > > Thanks everyone, Jeff ################### From: mrg40 at student.canterbury.ac.nz (Mikala Graham) Date: Wed May 18 18:08:51 2005 Subject: [CP] Capensis... David and Jeff, David, I too have binata and I'm assuming its capensis (long singular leaves of dew) in all my c.p. pots where they had seeded from the original growers. there are Tonnes of seedlings in there!! I should probably pull them out, but I dont want to disturb the roots of the sarrs in the pots! Jeff, Are your plants outside? maybe it is too dry for them. Does the dew dry up midday? Mine are all kept just inside a window and they sit in a tray of water, so while it may get quite warm, there is no breeze (or very little) to dry them out, and humidity I guess is maintained by the large tray of water they are sitting in. This seems to be fine for the sundews and most sarrs (though my cephalotus had other ideas). Mikala. > And as for capensis... I've got these buggers (along with their cousins D. > Binata) growing in the most unexpected of places (eg. My compost bins) after > over 20 years in my garden bog...even after severe winter frosts. > > David Wong >> >> >>Message: 5 Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 12:08:23 -0500 From: "jeff >>spiegelman" Subject: [CP] d. spatulata, D. capensis, and D. >>Californica To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: >><20050518170823.10D154BEAE@ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com> Content-Type: >>text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >>Hey all, Thanks for your help with my first two problems... now i >>have two more and one question. The question is; I have a d. >>spatulata that is flowering quite well. Will it self polinate and >>produce seed, do i have to help it, and how do i harvest the seeds? >>As for my problems, lets start with the D. Californica. The plants >>winter leaves are slowly dying away, and it has plenty of healthy >>green looking new growth. But none of the leaves have opened into >>traps yet. SOme of the leaves have been there for weeks in a >>semi-curled thing. Whats going on? Problem two. For some ungodly >>reason... i cant seem to grow d. capensis. I have tried several >>times with many plants. They grow well enough for a few weeks, and >>than just die from the growing point outward. I had a pot of three >>plants in it and all three plants did this at the same time. This >>same thing has happened several different times. I seem to be able to >>grow most plants well enough, but fail completly on this plants which >>is supposed to be very easy. What am i doing wrong? >> >>Thanks everyone, Jeff > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: mrg40 at student.canterbury.ac.nz (Mikala Graham) Date: Wed May 18 18:17:29 2005 Subject: [CP] Cephalotus...(again *sigh*) Hi, I know I have asked about my cephalotus once before, but now I have moved it and hopefully it is in better conditions (less heat, less water). nevertheless... 1) it has lost ALL its traps. from the main growth rosette these are still some reas. sized healthy looking leaves though. Is this a sign of hope or a 'dying breath' of the plant? Please note that it is coming into winter here, though I really need to move the rest outside because they haven't got the hint yet (sarrs). 2) also, I notice that one of the leaves in the centre looks a little different and has a sort of white fuzz on it. its not the same as the hairs on a newly forming trap, and this leaf is upright. Is this some sort of fungus, or a different winter leaf type/ something I don't know about? 3) should I just give up and try to grow it in a sealed terrarium from now? would it do better that way? Cheers for any responses, and happy growing (or hibernating). Mikala. ################### From: captotterboy at hot-shot.com (jeff spiegelman) Date: Wed May 18 18:39:38 2005 Subject: [CP] D. Californica, D. Capensis, and the battle of yorktown... HA! Hey, My D. Californica is in a tray of its own water on a south facing window in Upstate NY. I mist it when the weather is too dry or too hot. I have been told that D. califonica is very difficult to grow when not in the correct environment, but i got a really good deal ($5 for a huge plant) so i took it, i figured the worst that would happen is that id get attached to it, it would die, and i would feel really really bad.... ahh crap! As for the d. capensis.... I KNOW!!!! I grow many other much more challanging CPs well, but for whatever reason... i cant seem to grow these. And i know they die back in the winter... but the ones of mine that are currently going to the little garden in the sky were grown under grow lights in 55-80 degrees F (i have no earthly clue what that is in C, so um.... yeah) for 12 hours a day intitially, and now increases to 15. Im using the correct water, i have at least 50% humidity, usually closer to 75%, i avoid fertalizers, and air flow. I cant figure it out. By the way, can anyone answer my question about the d. spatulata seeds... i relally have never tried to collect seeds before. So im incompetent, Mr. Ahrens? So i should join a trucker's listserve, Mr Ahrens? Well, you know what i think... um... i think we kicked your butts at yorktown... so there. Thanks for the help though, Jeff -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm ################### From: DougWitkowski at netscape.net (DougWitkowski@netscape.net) Date: Wed May 18 20:46:54 2005 Subject: [CP] Terrestrial Bladderwort question & LSoH I have U Livida that has taken over my bog here in Austin TX. It winters fine and is in constant bloom. Doug W "Jim Zielinski" wrote: >Can anybody recommend some easy terrestrial utrics that will do well in >an outdoor bog in the Southeast? I'm in Zone 7. > >I recall, years ago, picking one that was a little more tropical >(yeeears ago, forgot the species) and it took over my terrarium. This >is a different setup...outside and temperate. > >So, any suggestions? > >I'm about to do some ordering, and figured I'd get this one in the >hopper right quick. ;) THANKS! > >- jEz > >p.s.: Oh, yes - have any of the CP'ers here been involved with "Little >Shop of Horrors" onstage besides me? Just curious. > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Thu May 19 05:25:03 2005 Subject: [CP] Cephalotus...(again *sigh*) im told youre supposed to grow them EXACTLY as you would an african violet. --- Mikala Graham wrote: > Hi, > I know I have asked about my cephalotus once before, > but now I have > moved it and hopefully it is in better conditions > (less heat, less > water). nevertheless... > 1) it has lost ALL its traps. from the main growth > rosette these are > still some reas. sized healthy looking leaves > though. Is this a sign of > hope or a 'dying breath' of the plant? Please note > that it is coming > into winter here, though I really need to move the > rest outside because > they haven't got the hint yet (sarrs). > 2) also, I notice that one of the leaves in the > centre looks a little > different and has a sort of white fuzz on it. its > not the same as the > hairs on a newly forming trap, and this leaf is > upright. Is this some > sort of fungus, or a different winter leaf type/ > something I don't know > about? > 3) should I just give up and try to grow it in a > sealed terrarium from > now? would it do better that way? > > Cheers for any responses, and happy growing (or > hibernating). > Mikala. > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Thu May 19 05:29:46 2005 Subject: [CP] Darlingtonia Californica - floating bog ponds >I > remember seeing them float these boxes full of > Darlingtonia in their Ponds. Ok, that there is a work of brilliance. I really think more people should look at creating floating bogs for ponds. I guess the only problem with that would be the need for alot of RO or distilled water depending on the tap water conditions of your area? ################### From: reshands at webtv.net (Robert Shands) Date: Thu May 19 06:38:36 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: C.P.s near Brisbane Hakan, So, you are going to Briabane. It's great for C.P.s. I dont know what ever happen to our old club (BCPS). I lived there for 11 years and come back to the US in 1986. I will give you some names but, you will have to look them up in the phone book as I have no phone numbers for you....Here goes: Wilf Cockin, Stephen Hall, John Neven, Ian Gilbert, Bruce Sharp., Geoff Mansell....Maybe, this will help... If you see any of the old gang, tell them I am alive and will in the USA. Happy hunting... Later, Robert Shands ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Thu May 19 07:02:55 2005 Subject: [CP] Darlingtonia Californica Now now David, you're in Vancouver, pretty easy to grow Darlingtonia there! I'll admit, I had to do a bit of extra work to keep my plants alive, but it was pretty minimal (flush pots daily with tap water, throw on a few ice cubes once in a while). I don't think I'd stand a chance out in the prairies! Ah, you west coasters ;-)! Cheers! Chris > >I've had darlingtonia growing for over 20+ years...it has self seeded and >at >one time became a weed. But that was only after years of trying to grow >this >beast under the usual conditions of trying them out in pots >indoors/outdoors >etc. The best way to grow them in a soggy pond / trench with 50:50 >peat/sand >mix, topped with sphagnum moss and to buy one of those cheapo pond >recirculating pond (fountain) pumps...selling for approx. C$20 here in >Vancouver Canada. > >Yes the weather here may be cooler than say in the tropics, but the trick >is >to grow them in cool circulating water. The temperature gets quite warm for >a few months (weeks over 25 degrees centigrade / 72 F) in Vancouver. Some >of >my old CP buddies grew them in large styrofoam containers (ie. Coolers)... >I >remember seeing them float these boxes full of Darlingtonia in their Ponds. > >And as for capensis... I've got these buggers (along with their cousins D. >Binata) growing in the most unexpected of places (eg. My compost bins) >after >over 20 years in my garden bog...even after severe winter frosts. > >David Wong >-- > > On 5/18/05 4:22 PM, "Tre Bond" wrote: > > > > > > > > > Jeff you should thank your lucky stars you can't grow capensis. Talk >about a > > weed. Unless you arein Darlingtonia's native area or similar I doubt >you will > > have much success with it. Obviously some crazy people (like myself) >have > > built elaborate contraptions to grow this plant but most fail. Summer >just > > gets way too hot most places. > > > > Tre > > > > > > Message: 5 > > Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 12:08:23 -0500 > > From: "jeff spiegelman" > > Subject: [CP] d. spatulata, D. capensis, and D. Californica > > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > > Message-ID: <20050518170823.10D154BEAE@ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > Hey all, > > Thanks for your help with my first two problems... now i have two more >and one > > question. The question is; I have a d. spatulata that is flowering quite >well. > > Will it self polinate and produce seed, do i have to help it, and how do >i > > harvest the seeds? As for my problems, lets start with the D. >Californica. The > > plants winter leaves are slowly dying away, and it has plenty of healthy >green > > looking new growth. But none of the leaves have opened into traps yet. >SOme of > > the leaves have been there for weeks in a semi-curled thing. Whats going >on? > > Problem two. For some ungodly reason... i cant seem to grow d. capensis. >I > > have tried several times with many plants. They grow well enough for a >few > > weeks, and than just die from the growing point outward. I had a pot of >three > > plants in it and all three plants did this at the same time. This same >thing > > has happened several different times. I seem to be able to grow most >plants > > well enough, but fail completly on this plants which is supposed to be > > very easy. What am i doing wrong? > > > > Thanks everyone, > > Jeff > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Thu May 19 10:53:19 2005 Subject: [CP] Changing sundew's media I just had to change the media surface of my rosette sundews Drosera brevifolia and Drosera capillaris. I mainly had to do D. brevifolia because it was covered with green slime,and don't like to llok at it. Mainly because my the sundews are flowering,and don't want any seeds fall in the slime,or else they may nat germinate since Dwarf sundews are short lived. Funny of the slime are on the rosette sundews,and not the others? Maybe it could be that the leaves sit lower and rot in the media,than the other sundews that their leaves are above the media? Any one else have same problem with their rosette sundews? Wolf ################### From: hpulley at rogers.com (Harry Pulley) Date: Thu May 19 10:58:53 2005 Subject: [CP] alternatives to chicken wire to protect outdoor bogs? What is it about bogs that make birds want to peck my plants out of it? I wanted to get away without chicken wire but became fed up with replanting my poor plants so I have put some wire up for now. Is there a better solution? Its pretty ugly right now. I'm close to growing them in my windowsill instead like my non-native species. Harry :-{} Harry C. Pulley, IV mailto:hpulley@rogers.com http://ca.geocities.com/hpulley4@rogers.com Guelph, Ontario, Canada ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Thu May 19 12:02:00 2005 Subject: [CP] alternatives to chicken wire to protect outdoor bogs? i have problems with geese sampling a sundew leaf or two. i just hope i can grow up my marston dragon big enough to eat it. --- Harry Pulley wrote: > What is it about bogs that make birds want to peck > my > plants out of it? I wanted to get away without > chicken wire but became fed up with replanting my > poor > plants so I have put some wire up for now. Is there > a > better solution? Its pretty ugly right now. I'm > close to growing them in my windowsill instead like > my > non-native species. > > Harry > > :-{} Harry C. Pulley, IV > mailto:hpulley@rogers.com > http://ca.geocities.com/hpulley4@rogers.com > Guelph, Ontario, Canada > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Thu May 19 12:23:34 2005 Subject: [CP] alternatives to chicken wire to protect outdoor bogs? Harry, You can try lots of other things to try and keep pests out of your bog; loud noises, electric fences, predator urine, etc., but in the end, they all figure out ways around it, so the only true method to keep them out is through complete exclusion. Ugly, but effective! There are other materials that can be used that don't look as bad as chicken wire, such as hardware cloth. You could use a fish gill net which would be pretty much invisible, however then you have the possibility of killing birds that get trapped in it. Not the best solution! Chris >From: Harry Pulley >Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group >To: Cp@omnisterra.com >Subject: [CP] alternatives to chicken wire to protect outdoor bogs? >Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 13:58:41 -0400 (EDT) > >What is it about bogs that make birds want to peck my >plants out of it? I wanted to get away without >chicken wire but became fed up with replanting my poor >plants so I have put some wire up for now. Is there a >better solution? Its pretty ugly right now. I'm >close to growing them in my windowsill instead like my >non-native species. > >Harry > >:-{} Harry C. Pulley, IV > mailto:hpulley@rogers.com > http://ca.geocities.com/hpulley4@rogers.com > Guelph, Ontario, Canada > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Thu May 19 13:24:02 2005 Subject: [CP] D. Californica, D. Capensis, "jeff spiegelman" wrote: >Im using the correct water, i have at least 50% humidity, usually closer to 75%, i avoid fertalizers, and air flow. I cant figure it out. > avoiding air flow? maybe it's fungus. D. capensis, like many other temperate species, seems to enjoy the great outdoors. bright sun, fresh air, big open skies, crane flies. i have a pot of them in my window box and they're as happy as clams. >By the way, can anyone answer my question about the d. spatulata seeds... i relally have never tried to collect seeds before. > D. spatulata and any fertile hybrids thereof will quickly invade every pot you own. so the only reason i now harvest seed is to prevent it from taking over. just wait until the all seed capsules in the scape dessicate (the pod will look like it's turned black, but in fact, the casing splits, revealing the black seed within), then fold a piece of wax paper into a cone, hold the scape in the cone and twirl away. to release any seed that's still stuck in the capsules, gently tweeze the seed heads. Gary Kong -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Thu May 19 13:41:16 2005 Subject: [CP] Cephalotus...(again *sigh*) Hi Mikala-- it could be an intermediate trap. one of those half pitcher/half vegetative leaves. OR it could be fungus or mealybug. Cephalotus seems susceptible to both. for fungus, which is particularly prevalent during flowering season, i dust my plants with sulphur. i brush some up on a long bristle brush and flick the bristles with my thunb to create a small cloud of dust that settles on the plant. not the most attractive method, but it works. for mealybug, if it's not too established, manual removal works fine. i think what Chris said about African Violets is true. NEVER let water droplets sit on their leaves for long. very counter-intuitive, since these plants grow in cool, wet environments with presumably lots of dew and rain, in addition to them having a very waxy cuticle. mine grow outdoors year round with alternating cycles of pitcher/vegetative leaf production, so if yours dies back to the roots, something's amiss. if your climate is similar to Albany's, i would consider trying it outdoors. filter light is best. you might also want to investigate propagation via leaf cuttings. it's a pretty reliable way to increase your specimens so your success isn't hinging on a single plant. good luck. Gary Kong Mikala Graham wrote: >Hi, >I know I have asked about my cephalotus once before, but now I have >moved it and hopefully it is in better conditions (less heat, less >water). nevertheless... >1) it has lost ALL its traps. from the main growth rosette these are >still some reas. sized healthy looking leaves though. Is this a sign of >hope or a 'dying breath' of the plant? Please note that it is coming >into winter here, though I really need to move the rest outside because >they haven't got the hint yet (sarrs). >2) also, I notice that one of the leaves in the centre looks a little >different and has a sort of white fuzz on it. its not the same as the >hairs on a newly forming trap, and this leaf is upright. Is this some >sort of fungus, or a different winter leaf type/ something I don't know >about? >3) should I just give up and try to grow it in a sealed terrarium from >now? would it do better that way? > >Cheers for any responses, and happy growing (or hibernating). >Mikala. > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: mrg40 at student.canterbury.ac.nz (Mikala Graham) Date: Thu May 19 13:59:55 2005 Subject: [CP] Cephalotus...(again *sigh*) Chris, I'm sure that would be the perfect advice, but unfortunately, I have never grown an african violet. Although I will check up the online care info on these. Thanks, Mikala. Chris Hind wrote: > im told youre supposed to grow them EXACTLY as you > would an african violet. > > --- Mikala Graham > wrote: > ################### From: mrg40 at student.canterbury.ac.nz (Mikala Graham) Date: Thu May 19 14:12:20 2005 Subject: [CP] Cephalotus...(again *sigh*) Gary, Its definitely not mealy-bug, though it could be a fungus, I will spray with a commercial anti-fungal recommended to me by a grower here (its hard to get the compounds you recommend in this country). I don't mist the plant at all, so no dew on the leaves, I only water from below. It is back from the window now. No idea how it would go outside as its only a small plant and its getting pretty cold and wet here at the moment, temps are getting really low overnight and it may start frosting soon. It could be a good idea for me to do a leaf cutting just in case. I have never done one before, so what kind of rooting hormone do I need, what is the best growing medium and what is the best way to go about this? Thanks, Mikala. Gary Kong wrote: > Hi Mikala-- > > it could be an intermediate trap. one of those half pitcher/half vegetative leaves. OR it could be fungus or mealybug. Cephalotus seems susceptible to both. for fungus, which is particularly prevalent during flowering season, i dust my plants with sulphur. i brush some up on a long bristle brush and flick the bristles with my thunb to create a small cloud of dust that settles on the plant. not the most attractive method, but it works. for mealybug, if it's not too established, manual removal works fine. > > i think what Chris said about African Violets is true. NEVER let water droplets sit on their leaves for long. very counter-intuitive, since these plants grow in cool, wet environments with presumably lots of dew and rain, in addition to them having a very waxy cuticle. > > mine grow outdoors year round with alternating cycles of pitcher/vegetative leaf production, so if yours dies back to the roots, something's amiss. if your climate is similar to Albany's, i would consider trying it outdoors. filter light is best. > > you might also want to investigate propagation via leaf cuttings. it's a pretty reliable way to increase your specimens so your success isn't hinging on a single plant. good luck. > > Gary Kong > > Mikala Graham wrote: > > >>Hi, >>I know I have asked about my cephalotus once before, but now I have >>moved it and hopefully it is in better conditions (less heat, less >>water). nevertheless... >>1) it has lost ALL its traps. from the main growth rosette these are >>still some reas. sized healthy looking leaves though. Is this a sign of >>hope or a 'dying breath' of the plant? Please note that it is coming >>into winter here, though I really need to move the rest outside because >>they haven't got the hint yet (sarrs). >>2) also, I notice that one of the leaves in the centre looks a little >>different and has a sort of white fuzz on it. its not the same as the >>hairs on a newly forming trap, and this leaf is upright. Is this some >>sort of fungus, or a different winter leaf type/ something I don't know >>about? >>3) should I just give up and try to grow it in a sealed terrarium from >>now? would it do better that way? >> >>Cheers for any responses, and happy growing (or hibernating). >>Mikala. >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Cp mailing list >>Cp@omnisterra.com >>http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com >> > > > ################### From: captotterboy at hot-shot.com (jeff spiegelman) Date: Thu May 19 15:27:55 2005 Subject: [CP] Mr Kong Mr Kong, Yeah, that was kinda a typo. I do have some airflow into the terrarium. The glass cover on top is 2 to 2 1/2 inches open. I may sound incompetant... but thats only because i cant type, spell, or communicate in any meaningful way. Thanks for your help. I appreaciate it. Jeff -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm ################### From: Killerplants at aol.com (Killerplants@aol.com) Date: Thu May 19 15:38:37 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Drosera seed Hi Chris, Damp milled sphagnum works wonderfully for Drosera seed. Cheers, Joe Griffin Lincoln, NE USA In a message dated 5/19/2005 1:01:09 P.M. Central Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: is it better to sow on damp milled sphagnum or damp sand? ################### From: Mormhammond at aol.com (Mormhammond@aol.com) Date: Thu May 19 16:48:18 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 24, Issue 16, Juncus effusus in bog Hello Jim, I've grown Juncus effusus in one of my bogs for about 3 years. I consider it a reasonable companion. This is the first year I've noticed J. effusus seedlings in other parts of the bog. If you're like me I like to pick around in the bog, so its no problem pulling up an occasional Juncus along with the hundred or so red maples. ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Thu May 19 17:12:16 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Birds They don't peck up live sphagnum, it's such a good covering. Tre ################### From: Jim at seahorses.com (Jim Forshey) Date: Thu May 19 17:27:41 2005 Subject: [CP] Entering plants in the County Fair For the last couple of years my wife has been trying to get me to enter some plants in the County Fair, last year I told her that I would next year, if she would leave me alone about it, (I as hoping she would forget). But she did not. I was think of entering an Drosera and an Pinguicula and maybe an Nepenthes. They will only be there for 5 days, will they be ok with out water for that long, do people normally touch the plants at something like this? (They will be inside, it will be around 80-90 degrees inside.) I was thinking have having a sign made up for each of the genus, telling what they were and putting the IPCS web site on it, is that ok? As you can see I am still not convinced I want to do this, but the boss is, so I guess I will be doing it. Any suggestion would be of great help. Thanks Jim Placerville, CA ??'?.??..><((((?>.???'?.??.???'?.?><((((?>?.???'?.?. ,. ???'?..>><((((?>?.???'?.?.???'?...?><((((?>?.???'?.?. ,. ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Thu May 19 19:24:39 2005 Subject: [CP] alternatives to chicken wire to protect outdoor bogs? You may find that the black bird netting they sell to cover fruit trees is more sightly. It does involve building a wood frame to attach it to, but it will end up being easier to push aside than chicken wire. You may also find, as I did, that you don't need to surround the entire bog, but simply put it up as a cover 3 or four feet up. The birds I have around here quickly learned that my bog table did not allow for a quick getaway from marauding feral cats (and the ones that didn't learn...wellll.... sorry na lang). So they stopped dropping by for foraging forays, preferring less risky locales. The netting I used said it was UV resistant, and did hold up with full exposure to Southern California Sun for about five years. In a message dated 5/19/2005 10:59:05 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, hpulley@rogers.com writes: What is it about bogs that make birds want to peck my plants out of it? I wanted to get away without chicken wire but became fed up with replanting my poor plants so I have put some wire up for now. Is there a better solution? Its pretty ugly right now. I'm close to growing them in my windowsill instead like my non-native species. TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Thu May 19 19:37:11 2005 Subject: [CP] Not being able to grow D.capensis They must have a weird system of license plature over in blighty ol'. Do they figure out every combination and print them in advance, doling them out as people ask, or is it like domain names where private citizens register them and can then sell them to the poor hapless souls who come along later looking for that particular plate? And just what we need, Dave Ahrens suddenly having a feeling of entitlement simply because he has a certificate that says so. In a message dated 5/18/2005 1:32:14 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, nepenthesdave@hotmail.com writes: For those that read my posting about my personal number plate that I bought a week ago. Someone replied to me in private, but I don't think that anyone else could be bothered. Well. I've just received the 'Certificate of Entitlement' for the plate, so it's genuinely mine now. After thinking about it a bit, I think that I could have a lot of fun with it. I don't think that I will regret it afterall. TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: rhillier at swconnection.com (Rick Hillier) Date: Fri May 20 05:17:28 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 24, Issue 20 Hi Harry, It's a lost cause trying to have a bog garden and have the birds/rodents leave them alone. My old protective structure collapsed over the winter and I haven't had a chance to rebuild it yet. As a reuslt, I lost almost all of my temperate sundews this year because the birds wanted the moss for their nests. When they took the moss, most of the hibernacula went with them. I am hoping that some of the seed that dropped last year will take hold to replace them. I also have rodents digging in the garden as well. They generally avoid the sarracenia and dionaea, but dig ugly holes all over the place. I expect a peanut garden to sprout in the middle of my bog this year. Anyway, I found that instead of chicken wire, I use this black bird netting that you can get at home depot. I am building a new fence that I can remove in sections quickly. The netting is mounted on wooden frames that I have painted flat black. >From a distance, the fence is not overly noticeable and you do get used to it eventually. We're going to have to get you over sometime to see mine and have a couple of beers. If I am nice, I might be able to convince my wife to have some souvlaki ready too! >>> Rick <<< >What is it about bogs that make birds want to peck my >plants out of it? I wanted to get away without >chicken wire but became fed up with replanting my poor >plants so I have put some wire up for now. Is there a >better solution? Its pretty ugly right now. I'm >close to growing them in my windowsill instead like my >non-native species. ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Fri May 20 07:09:10 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Birds Tre, Your birds obviously have different preferences to the ones I've always encountered :). If anything, the birds I've had to deal with _prefer_ live sphagnum over anything else in the bog. I can understand why, would make for a nice comfy nest! Cheers! Chris > >They don't peck up live sphagnum, it's such a good covering. >Tre > > >--------------------------------- >Yahoo! Mail Mobile > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Fri May 20 07:39:36 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Birds the geese here seem to be picky based on what theyve seen before i guess. theyll pick at my drosera filiformis or drosera capillaris (both florida locals) but wont touch my binata 'marston dragon' --- Chris Teichreb wrote: > Tre, > > Your birds obviously have different preferences to > the ones I've always > encountered :). If anything, the birds I've had to > deal with _prefer_ live > sphagnum over anything else in the bog. I can > understand why, would make > for a nice comfy nest! > > Cheers! > > Chris > > > > >They don't peck up live sphagnum, it's such a good > covering. > >Tre > > > > > >--------------------------------- > >Yahoo! Mail Mobile > > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your > mobile phone. > >_______________________________________________ > >Cp mailing list > >Cp@omnisterra.com > >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: hpulley at rogers.com (Harry Pulley) Date: Fri May 20 07:41:33 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: birds and bogs Thanks for the comments, everyone (and especially the offer of refreshments from Rick). Like Rick I'm sure I have rodents burrowing too. My cat is much more effective at small rodent control than squirrel or bird control and unfortunately I'm not sure if the black bird netting will deterr the squirrels. I suspect they could chew through the bird netting if they wanted too so I may have to stick with chicken wire, at least at the bottom. Perhaps I can use the black bird netting for the top but squirrels will likely figure that one out. Perhaps a moat... Harry :-{} Harry C. Pulley, IV mailto:hpulley@rogers.com http://ca.geocities.com/hpulley4@rogers.com Guelph, Ontario, Canada ################### From: stovehouse at earthlink.net (Michael Hunt) Date: Fri May 20 12:37:15 2005 Subject: [CP] alternatives to chicken wire to protect outdoor i have problems with geese sampling a sundew leaf or > two. i just hope i can grow up my marston dragon big > enough to eat it. > > --- Harry Pulley wrote: >> What is it about bogs that make birds want to peck >> my >> plants out of it? I wanted to get away without >> chicken wire but became fed up with replanting my >> poor >> plants so I have put some wire up for now. Is there >> a >> better solution? Its pretty ugly right now. I'm >> close to growing them in my windowsill instead like >> my >> non-native species. >> >> Harry >>>>>>>>> I'll tell ya what I use against the seabirds and large water foul a ball beam hammer & large chain like that you would find on a harbor tug boat. On the end of the heavy chain I put a plethora of big pad locks. The goal here is to make a tool that resembles something Attila the Hun used to stomp his enemies to the ground. Make sure you can handle the device you don't need a huge amount of links in the chain. Practice swinging this chain around & above your head. The pad locks will add momentum at the end links. Also make sure you practice these skills in a very wide open area away from humans, pets, cars, or buildings ..well anything you don't want to smash to smithereens. To get a better visual of what I am talking about you may refer to the movies Brave Heart or any of the Lord of the Ring movies where these type of weapons were commonly used. It is time to bring them back into pest control. When you are satisfied with its spiraling motion let go of that puppy & it will hit the darn geese in their heads & necks as they try to make a flying escape, snapping them instantly without any pain or inhuman occurrences that you could get in trouble with the local goons who protest when you kill a rat. If for some unknown reason the goose isn't killed but merely momentary injured with a broken neck you come up on the bird which will be easy to get as it will be flopping around with wing damage and you hit the thing in the back of the head with the ball beam hammer. This should dispatch even the nastiest of birds. The beauty of my removal system is that it does no harm to the environment and unlike chicken wire fence which is ruined rapidly after 1 use you can re-use the hammer, chain, & padlocks for other purposes. Sort of a dual purpose device. Hammer a bird in the head then use the hammer for household needs. Making the best possible use out of funds. For more details refer to Iron Maidens song book II do not write me. Regards, Mike St. Petersburg Florida ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Fri May 20 13:24:27 2005 Subject: [CP] alternatives to chicken wire to protect outdoor i can do better! a piece of screen or chicken wire laid down on the ground in front of where the plants are. a wire coming from one end of the screen and the other end attached to an electrical outlet and one of those wall switches that turn on the electrical outlet. see the bird go for a taste flip the switch and its dinnertime! > I'll tell ya what I use against the seabirds and > large water foul a ball > beam hammer & large chain like that you would find > on a harbor tug boat. On > the end of the heavy chain I put a plethora of big > pad locks. The goal here > you could get in trouble with the local goons who > protest when you kill a > rat. If for some unknown reason the goose isn't > killed but merely momentary > > Regards, > Mike > St. Petersburg Florida ################### From: h7n at talk21.com (Nigel Hurneyman) Date: Fri May 20 14:33:49 2005 Subject: [CP] Not being able to grow D.capensis (OT) >They must have a weird system of license plature over in blighty ol'. > >Do they figure out every combination and print them in advance, doling >them >out as people ask, or is it like domain names where private citizens >register >them and can then sell them to the poor hapless souls who come along >later >looking for that particular plate? > >And just what we need, Dave Ahrens suddenly having a feeling of >entitlement >simply because he has a certificate that says so. I believe M1 VFT predates our vehicle licensing authorities realising what a moneyspinner number plates could be, so it would have been one of a batch issued to a garage. Someone purchasing a new car from that garage would have had a choice from the numbers issued to that garage, typically M1 VFT, M2 VFT, M3 VFT etc. The vehicle licensing authorities then realised what the market place in 'cherished' number plates was worth and started holding back for auction numbers that might have value because they look like words. And pre-owned numbers can be bought and transferred to another vehicle. Presumably a certificate of entitlement means that Dave can now apply for the number to be transferred to the vehicle of his choice and allows him to legally have number plates made. How about UTR 1C for Mike King - dates back to about 1963 if my maths is correct. In today's newspaper, there's a report of a London restaurant serving squirrel as part of a two course meal for ?22. And it's usually sold out - you have to book it in advance! NigelH ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - want a free and easy way to contact your friends online? http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Fri May 20 15:40:13 2005 Subject: [CP] Not being able to grow D.capensis (OT) At that price, they are welcome to all the squirrels in my yard! That'd make my mortgage payment for a few months! In a message dated 5/20/2005 2:34:26 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, h7n@talk21.com writes: In today's newspaper, there's a report of a London restaurant serving squirrel as part of a two course meal for ?22. And it's usually sold out - you have to book it in advance! TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Fri May 20 15:49:13 2005 Subject: [CP] Carolina Bays Hey Folks, I ran recently read something interesting about the formation of impact craters that I thought folks on this listserve might find intriguing. This relates to the mysterious Carolina Bays of southeastern USA. Now, I will admit right off that no one has conclusive proof of how these mysterious, aligned, elliptical wetlands have formed or been maintained. We've all heard the various suggested explanations: meteoric impacts, aeolian processes, glaciation events, and even (heh heh) stranded whales. Anyway, as to the impact crater idea---this might seem appealing because you could imagine the elliptical nature of the Bays could even be used to infer the angle of impact of the colliding body, right? Well, actually it turns out that the elliptical nature of the Bays *rules out* any normal cratering process. You see, during an impact event, shock waves emanating from the point of impact propagate out, and it is this set of shock waves which does the actual excavation of material. Since the shock wave originates from essentially a point source, the resulting crater is radially symmetric. For example, look at the nicely preserved craters on the lunar surface. They're all round! You don't get elliptical craters because of angled impact trajectories. Interesting. Now, I suppose this doesn't rule out the possibility of the bays being created by subsonic, secondary impact cratering events. I have not seen anything about the excavation processes in such an event. However, if secondary impact craters were significant and non-circular, you *would* expect to see them on the Moon, too. Hmmm. Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. FAQ--Author http://www.sarracenia.com/faq.html Galleria Carnivora--Curator http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/galleria.html ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Fri May 20 16:09:47 2005 Subject: [CP] Carolina Bays so does that mean venus flytraps REALLY ARE from venus? --- Barry Rice wrote: > > Hey Folks, > > I ran recently read something interesting about the > formation of impact > craters that I thought folks on this listserve might > find intriguing. > > This relates to the mysterious Carolina Bays of > southeastern USA. Now, I > will admit right off that no one has conclusive > proof of how these > mysterious, aligned, elliptical wetlands have formed > or been maintained. > We've all heard the various suggested explanations: > meteoric impacts, > aeolian processes, glaciation events, and even (heh > heh) stranded whales. ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu) Date: Sat May 21 07:33:17 2005 Subject: [CP] Carolina Bays Dear Chris and Barry, Yep, they are definitely from Venus. :) After watching _A hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_, I realized that just maybe the folks who were thinking the bays were caused by, uh, misplaced whales could be onto something. Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of Chris Hind Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 7:10 PM To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group so does that mean venus flytraps REALLY ARE from venus? --- Barry Rice wrote: > > Hey Folks, > > I ran recently read something interesting about the > formation of impact > craters that I thought folks on this listserve might > find intriguing. > > This relates to the mysterious Carolina Bays of > southeastern USA. Now, I > will admit right off that no one has conclusive > proof of how these > mysterious, aligned, elliptical wetlands have formed > or been maintained. > We've all heard the various suggested explanations: > meteoric impacts, > aeolian processes, glaciation events, and even (heh > heh) stranded whales. ################### From: Jim at seahorses.com (Jim Forshey) Date: Sat May 21 09:47:11 2005 Subject: [CP] Display of carnivorous plants including many Nepenthes at the I was just reading that Borneo Exotics from Sri Lanka is going to set up a display of carnivorous plants including many Nepenthes at the Chelsea Flower Show. Would anyone happen to be going that might share a picture of this to us or does any one know were we might see a picture of this display? Thanks Jim Forshey Placerville, California ??'?.??..><((((?>.???'?.??.???'?.?><((((?>?.???'?.?. ,. ???'?..>><((((?>?.???'?.?.???'?...?><((((?>?.???'?.?. ,. ################### From: NEPENTHES at borneoexotics.com (NEPENTHES@borneoexotics.com) Date: Sat May 21 12:11:03 2005 Subject: [CP] Autoreply: Cp Digest, Vol 24, Issue 22 Thank you for your email. Please note that our offices are closed till the 25th of May due to public holidays on the 23rd and 24th. Best regards, Borneo Exotics (Pvt) Ltd ################### From: voodoodancer at gmail.com (Mark) Date: Sat May 21 12:53:25 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 24, Issue 22 I have studied the bays, on and off for the last few years. I was even looking at some new satellite photos last night. I think the leading belief right now is that they were created by the Earth passing through the tail of a comet. Meteors and asteroids have been ruled out because no foreign material have ever been found in any of the bays. So since comet tails are made of mostly ice, there was nothing to leave behind but water and steam. I have never thought about Barry's theory of the the shock waves, and I don't know what effect that would have on ice and water. The second leading theory is that when the east coast was under the Atlantic ocean, rotating currents caused them. If this theory is true then how come similar depressions don't occur in other areas that have been subject to ocean currents? I think the comet theory is the most feasible. This has been a huge interest for me and I would love to hear everbodies ideas. Here's some good pics of the bays. http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=33.872910,-77.984219&spn=0.088234,0.126686&t=k http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=33.872910,-77.984219&spn=0.088234,0.126686&t=k http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=33.872910,-77.984219&spn=0.088234,0.126686&t=k All these pics are from Bladen County NC. The lakes are water filled Carolina Bays. The lakes include, Jones, Sauters, and White lake. I am moving back to Brunswick county NC next month and plan on continuing my study of Carolina Bays and CP's. I'm planning a website to publish all of my pics and finds. Oh yeah, If anyone is in the area and wants to see some cp's, look me up. -- Paypal is nothing but hightech common thieves. Check out their customer feedback http://www.planetfeedback.com/sharedLettersList/0,2941,101112-70-0-0-20-0-fb_date-desc,00.html Don't become another paypal victim ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sat May 21 13:20:33 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: birds Well I do have a "normal" garden with mulch and stuff for the birds to pick through. I know some of you have zero garden except for CPs. I also live right next to a small wooded area which may help. Tre ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Sat May 21 15:25:22 2005 Subject: [CP] VFT number plates I haven't accessd my email for a couple of days. Hamir asked a few questions about our number plate ststem, here in the UK. New number plates are issued to dealers when people buy their new cars. A new number plate will be different to those issued a few years ago because they have changed in appearance. There are a lot of plates which have come available to people who may wish to buy them. These have a market price, depending on their demand. I have checked for DAV 10, which roughly reads 'David'. This plate will cost a buyer 52,000 pounds at present. I also checked out, close your eyes if you're sensitive, PEN 15, which reads as something else. That plate is going for 35,000 pounds. However, there are lots of ordinary plates selling for a few hundred pounds, and mine was one of them. It probably makes me a sad git for buying one, but as I pointed out before, I drank too much tea and coffee that day. I have spoken to quite a few people and they are in two camps. The first type of person thinks that it is a really neat plate, and understands me buying it. The second type thinks that I am completely mad, and that I have wasted my money. I know that you can buy plates in the US as well. A few years ago, I was watching the sun go down in Kings Canyon National Park, in California, when I was talking to a press photographer from LA. He had a number plate which read 'HAF DOM'. Most people will know that Half Dome is an outcrop of rock in Yosemite Nat Park. He called it an 'Enviromental Plate', and he paid for it each year, the money going to helping the enviroment in some way. I might add that most people do not pay anything for their numbers plates, apart form an initial fee when the car is bought, but then most people do not want to own their plate and put it on their next car. Hope this helps Hamir. Regards David Ahrens. PS- I went to a CP meeting at Stan Lampards today, and the plate went down a hoot with most people. ################### From: mrg40 at student.canterbury.ac.nz (Mikala Graham) Date: Sat May 21 22:59:26 2005 Subject: [SPAM: 4.000] [CP] VFT number plates Personalised Plates are quite common in NZ too (In case you were wondering whether it is a global phenomenon). I have no idea of the pricing though! Mikala ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Sun May 22 01:37:59 2005 Subject: [CP] Capensis Jeff, I was only joking, but I think that you guessed that. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: marsintenn at hotmail.com (mars schultz) Date: Sun May 22 05:43:57 2005 Subject: [CP] alternatives to chicken wire to protect outdoor okay, after my initial reactions of horror i realize you must be joking (please oh please be joking :) ). however, i will share a method that may be effective on larger birds. a paintball gun. my dave and i have been using his paintball gun to run off the neighborhood dogs when they wander into our yard. it's quite effective, as the dogs rarely come back once they've been hit with even one paintball. the added bonus of the paint being non-toxic and the shots doing nothing worse than a painful bruise (unless you over modify your gun) means no charges for animal cruelty. even the local animal controll guy agreed it was a good idea. while i imagine it wouldn't work well with smaller birds, it would probly be great for geese. and good practice for hittting those moving targets, too. -mars marsintenn@hotmail.com knoxville, tn ----Original Message Follows---- >>>>>>>>> I'll tell ya what I use against the seabirds and large water foul a ball beam hammer & large chain like that you would find on a harbor tug boat. On the end of the heavy chain I put a plethora of big pad locks. The goal here is to make a tool that resembles something Attila the Hun used to stomp his enemies to the ground. Make sure you can handle the device you don't need a huge amount of links in the chain. Practice swinging this chain around & above your head. The pad locks will add momentum at the end links. Also make sure you practice these skills in a very wide open area away from humans, pets, cars, or buildings ..well anything you don't want to smash to smithereens. To get a better visual of what I am talking about you may refer to the movies Brave Heart or any of the Lord of the Ring movies where these type of weapons were commonly used. It is time to bring them back into pest control. When you are satisfied with its spiraling motion let go of that puppy & it will hit the darn geese in their heads & necks as they try to make a flying escape, snapping them instantly without any pain or inhuman occurrences that you could get in trouble with the local goons who protest when you kill a rat. If for some unknown reason the goose isn't killed but merely momentary injured with a broken neck you come up on the bird which will be easy to get as it will be flopping around with wing damage and you hit the thing in the back of the head with the ball beam hammer. This should dispatch even the nastiest of birds. The beauty of my removal system is that it does no harm to the environment and unlike chicken wire fence which is ruined rapidly after 1 use you can re-use the hammer, chain, & padlocks for other purposes. Sort of a dual purpose device. Hammer a bird in the head then use the hammer for household needs. Making the best possible use out of funds. For more details refer to Iron Maidens song book II do not write me. Regards, Mike St. Petersburg Florida ------------------------------ Message: 2 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <20050520202416.15921.qmail@web54105.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii i can do better! a piece of screen or chicken wire laid down on the ground in front of where the plants are. a wire coming from one end of the screen and the other end attached to an electrical outlet and one of those wall switches that turn on the electrical outlet. see the bird go for a taste flip the switch and its dinnertime! ################### From: voodoodancer at gmail.com (Mark) Date: Sun May 22 06:00:15 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 24, Issue 22 Well if you have clicked on the pics you can tell that they are not right. I'm not sure what I did wrong. It just went back to the first pic I looked up. I'm not sure how to link to the images I want. If you use this link: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=3D33.872910,-77.984219&spn=3D0.088234,0.1266= 86&t=3Dk Then click the navigation bar up 8 times, Then click to the left 3 times you'll see some of the bays. Zoom out and you'll see many more. The lakes are the Bladen Lakes. Sorry about that. Mark -- Paypal is nothing but hightech common thieves. Check out their customer feedback http://www.planetfeedback.com/sharedLettersList/0,2941,101112-70-0-0-20-0-fb_date-desc,00.html Don't become another paypal victim ################### From: hpulley at rogers.com (Harry Pulley) Date: Sun May 22 08:21:43 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: birds > Well I do have a "normal" garden with mulch and stuff for the birds to pick through. I know some of you have zero garden except for CPs. I also live right next to a small wooded area which may help. > Tre I have tons of mulch and more brush piles that should really be taken to the dump for mulching. Yet they still like the bog... Harry -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.15 - Release Date: 5/22/05 ################### From: thombrogar at aol.com (thombrogar@aol.com) Date: Sun May 22 10:55:59 2005 Subject: [CP] Re:CP] Display of carnivorous plants including many Nepenthes I was just reading that Borneo Exotics from Sri Lanka is going to set up a display of carnivorous plants including many Nepenthes at the Chelsea Flower Show. Would anyone happen to be going that might share a picture of this to us or does any one know were we might see a picture of this display? Thanks Jim Forshey Placerville, California ??'?.??..><((((?>.???'?.??.???'?.?><((((?>?.???'?.?. ,. ???'?..>><((((?>?.???'?.?.???'?...?><((((?>?.???'?.?. ,. Jim, I am here now at the Chelsea Flower show. I will get photos tomorrow. I already have Mathew Soper's display photoed. i am home june 1st and will try and set up a page where you can go and see them. Brooks garcia ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Sun May 22 11:11:08 2005 Subject: [CP] drosera binata 'marston dragon' is it self fertile? sterile? or need another binata to cross with it to produce seed? ################### From: NEPENTHES at borneoexotics.com (NEPENTHES@borneoexotics.com) Date: Sun May 22 12:11:53 2005 Subject: [CP] Autoreply: Cp Digest, Vol 24, Issue 23 Thank you for your email. Please note that our offices are closed till the 25th of May due to public holidays on the 23rd and 24th. Best regards, Borneo Exotics (Pvt) Ltd ################### From: captotterboy at hot-shot.com (jeff spiegelman) Date: Sun May 22 17:58:09 2005 Subject: [CP] Capensis David, Yeah, I kinda figured, Thats ok, so was i. Jeff -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm ################### From: ClaraVoiAunt at aol.com (ClaraVoiAunt@aol.com) Date: Sun May 22 22:53:56 2005 Subject: [CP] RE:Marston Dragon Hey there Chris, I don''t know the answer to your question, jest know it grows so easily from root cuttings, why bother with seed? Thanx for listening and keep 'em plants growin' Lois In a message dated 5/22/2005 12:02:47 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: is it self fertile? sterile? or need another binata to cross with it to produce seed? ################### From: asplundii at gmail.com (Travis Wyman) Date: Mon May 23 06:04:24 2005 Subject: [CP] drosera binata 'marston dragon' I have 2 plants from different sources that are supposed to be 'Martson Dragon' (one I belive to be accurate the other I doubt.) For the past few years I have crossed whatever flowers are open on any of my binata complex plants just so I can have seed to give to newbies. If there are not enought available flowers I will often self blooms or I will "cross" with another open flower from the same scape (which amounts to selfing I would guess.) I have gotten fertile seed from both actions not just in the case of the 'Martson Dragon' but on all my various binata subspecies/forms/variants. Cheers Travis On 5/22/05, Chris Hind wrote: > is it self fertile? sterile? or need another binata to > cross with it to produce seed? ################### From: ddarnows at ius.edu (Darnowski, Douglas William) Date: Mon May 23 07:45:16 2005 Subject: [CP] 2006 ICPS Meeting Up and Running Hey everyone, The website for the 2006 meeting of the ICPS is now up and running at http://www.frostburg.edu/6thICPS/ Many many many thanks are owed by all to my co-head of the organizing commitee, Hong-qi Li, who is the one who has prepared the website. You'll find lots of info, including airports, meeting dates, housing information, field trips, and more. Please note that this time there are an official rental car company (Avis) and an official airline (American Airlines). Both offer discounts for meetings attendees who use a special code, and the discount on American Airlines is good for any of their One World partner airlines (which includes Qantas and several others), not just American. Doug Darnowski, for the Organizing Commitee ################### From: NEPENTHES at borneoexotics.com (NEPENTHES@borneoexotics.com) Date: Mon May 23 12:11:40 2005 Subject: [CP] Autoreply: Cp Digest, Vol 24, Issue 24 Thank you for your email. Please note that our offices are closed till the 25th of May due to public holidays on the 23rd and 24th. Best regards, Borneo Exotics (Pvt) Ltd ################### From: ermine at sbcglobal.net (ermine) Date: Mon May 23 17:29:13 2005 Subject: [CP] Wrinkled pitchers? I have an outdoor bog garden here in San Francisco. I've had it in the ground for just about 4 years now. Some of the plants are doing well, but it seems that, each year, more of my Sarracenia start to put out stunted, wrinkled traps. I have one or two clumps that seem to be growing well, but now it's not just one clump doing poorly this year, now the majority of the pitchers are coming up wrinkled. Can anyone guess from that alone what I'm doing wrong? I've sprayed for aphids, they were a problem in the spring, but I'm not seeing them anymore. I use the same spray on the plants in my windowbox, and they're all doing wonderfully, not 5 feet away from the outdoor bog. The sundews aren't coming up wrinkled since I sprayed. I can't imagine it's water they need, this year they got MORE water than usual over the winter, not less. Most of my sundews drowned and are only now starting to come up again from the roots. All the live sphagnum drowned and I am trying to spread it with clumps taken from my windowbox again. This is the time of year I have to water daily to keep the sphagnum from drying out, but the sundews have always flourished during this season. The Sarracenia have deeper roots, so I'd expect them to do well too! Some of them are doing well, but the ones on the other side of the garden.. Not so good. I've been assuming that if I could keep the sphagnum alive and spreading, there was enough water in the soil for everything else. Except for this gradual wrinkling and dimunition, it has been working for several years. Several of my clumps of sarracenia have been coming up and expanding beautifully until now. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thank you, Matt Ouimette ermine@sbcglobal.net ################### From: Jim at seahorses.com (Jim Forshey) Date: Mon May 23 19:58:51 2005 Subject: [CP] Re:CP] Display of carnivorous plants including many Thank you very much, looking forward to seeing them. Jim Forshey Placerville, California ??'?.??..><((((?>.???'?.??.???'?.?><((((?>?.???'?.?. ,. ???'?..>><((((?>?.???'?.?.???'?...?><((((?>?.???'?.?. ,. -----Original Message----- Of thombrogar@aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 10:56 AM To: Cp@omnisterra.com at the Chelsea Flower Show I was just reading that Borneo Exotics from Sri Lanka is going to set up a display of carnivorous plants including many Nepenthes at the Chelsea Flower Show. Would anyone happen to be going that might share a picture of this to us or does any one know were we might see a picture of this display? Thanks Jim Forshey Placerville, California ??'?.??..><((((?>.???'?.??.???'?.?><((((?>?.???'?.?. ,. ???'?..>><((((?>?.???'?.?.???'?...?><((((?>?.???'?.?. ,. Jim, I am here now at the Chelsea Flower show. I will get photos tomorrow. I already have Mathew Soper's display photoed. i am home june 1st and will try and set up a page where you can go and see them. Brooks garcia _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Tue May 24 00:20:05 2005 Subject: [CP] Silver Gilt medal for Borneo Exotics I have just looked on the RHS website, and see that Rob Cantley has won a Silver Gilt medal for his display at Chelsea Flower Show this year. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Tue May 24 09:24:33 2005 Subject: [CP] Heliamphora What species and subspecies are there as of right now I have found way too many: Heliamphora chimantensis Heliamphora elongata Heliamphora folliculata Heliamphora heterodoxa Heliamphora hispida Heliamphora ionasi H. macdonaldae Heliamphora minor Heliamphora neblinae Heliamphora nutans Heliamphora sarracenioides Heliamphora tatei (multiple subspeies but I am not sure what is correct) H. tyleri Tre bond ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Tue May 24 11:56:59 2005 Subject: [CP] Heliamphora Tre, Go to http://www.omnisterra.com/bot/cp_home.cgi and do a search for Heliamphora (showing only accepted names). It has not been updated since at least March 31, so new species like H.sarracenioides are missing, but the other established, nomenclaturally correct species/sub-species are all there. And yes, there's likely more to come! Chris > >What species and subspecies are there as of right now I have found way too >many: > >Heliamphora chimantensis > >Heliamphora elongata > >Heliamphora folliculata > >Heliamphora heterodoxa > >Heliamphora hispida > >Heliamphora ionasi > >H. macdonaldae > >Heliamphora minor > >Heliamphora neblinae > >Heliamphora nutans > >Heliamphora sarracenioides > >Heliamphora tatei (multiple subspeies but I am not sure what is correct) > >H. tyleri > > > >Tre bond > > > >--------------------------------- >Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site! >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: NEPENTHES at borneoexotics.com (NEPENTHES@borneoexotics.com) Date: Tue May 24 12:13:16 2005 Subject: [CP] Autoreply: Cp Digest, Vol 24, Issue 25 Thank you for your email. Please note that our offices are closed till the 25th of May due to public holidays on the 23rd and 24th. Best regards, Borneo Exotics (Pvt) Ltd ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Tue May 24 13:29:04 2005 Subject: [CP] Digestion of S.flava x purpurea? Does this hybrit take on digestion traits of S flava or S. purpurea? Wolf ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Tue May 24 14:54:32 2005 Subject: [CP] Digestion of S.flava x purpurea? Dear Wolf and List, Since the hybrid can have several forms, depending on what generation it may be, I suppose some individuals will favor _S. flava_, while some others will favor _S. purpurea_. However, if you're just interested in the F1 generation, I have no idea. I'm not even sure I am convinced about the presence or lack thereof for digestive enzymes in _Sarracenia_ species... Do _Sarracenia_ have digestive glands like _Drosera_ and _Nepenthes_? And they are not present in _S. purpurea_? Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of Harry Q Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 4:29 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Does this hybrid take on digestion traits of S flava or S. purpurea? Wolf _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Tue May 24 20:37:59 2005 Subject: [CP] Wanted: ALL YELLOW Venus Flytrap Looking for all yellow form,like the all green. Wolf ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Wed May 25 12:19:07 2005 Subject: [CP] Utrics How many species of Utrics are there? Information about 74 species covers 19 pages. Tre ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Wed May 25 12:38:56 2005 Subject: [CP] Trip report: Lousiana, Mississippi Hey Folks, I respectfully bring to your attention my most recent trip report, describing some recent explorations into Louisiana and Mississippi, timed to coincide with the annual flowering display of Sarracenia alata. Some very pretty photos, if I do say so myself! http://www.sarracenia.com/faq/faq7617.html B Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. FAQ--Author http://www.sarracenia.com/faq.html Galleria Carnivora--Curator http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/galleria.html ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Wed May 25 13:22:39 2005 Subject: [CP] Utrics The number depends on the taxonomist. Peter Taylor's 1989 taxonomic monograph contains descriptions for 214 species. Tre Bond wrote: > How many species of Utrics are there? Information about 74 species > covers 19 pages. Tre ################### From: dhw at e-atelier.com (David Wong) Date: Wed May 25 15:48:53 2005 Subject: [CP] Trip report: Lousiana, Mississippi Incredible photos Barry! I enjoyed your dissertation on "Evil arrives" and some folk's lack of empathy for nature and her creations. 10 plus years ago, I shared the same arguments with forestry (or is that de-forestry) companies in SE Asia while I had my practice over there. I happened to be driven into a wholesale clearcutting effort with Nepenthes clinging onto the fallen trees and 're-born' N. ampullaria growing out of the truck tire ruts in the soil. Owch! My sympathetic client indicated to me the same sentiments as the "Take it all, whatever, take it if you want it " person you referred to. I collected as many of these fallen Nepenthes and tried to find a home in Canada for them...got clearance from the various government agencies, got CITES and Import permits and got the Universities involved in an institution to institution exchange ...only to later have them stopped by people (in our City's Parks board) who felt their jobs were threatened by volunteer plant keepers. I am (*finally*) putting together my personal website of my many photos of my sojourn through Malaysia and Indonesia soon...hopefully, pictures of these beauties in the wild will bring an appreciation to us in North America of the habitats these plants enjoy. David Wong -- On 5/25/05 12:37 PM, "Barry Rice" wrote: > > Hey Folks, > > I respectfully bring to your attention my most recent trip report, > describing some recent explorations into Louisiana and Mississippi, timed to > coincide with the annual flowering display of Sarracenia alata. Some very > pretty photos, if I do say so myself! > > http://www.sarracenia.com/faq/faq7617.html > > B > > Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. > FAQ--Author > http://www.sarracenia.com/faq.html > Galleria Carnivora--Curator > http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/galleria.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: ClaraVoiAunt at aol.com (ClaraVoiAunt@aol.com) Date: Wed May 25 22:20:52 2005 Subject: [CP] Darlingtonia Othella Hey there Group. Any one out there have a Darlingtonia"Othella" that they are willing to sell /trade whatever. Thanx for listening and keep 'em plants growin' ################### From: loneal at earthlink.net (Laura O'Neal) Date: Wed May 25 23:30:49 2005 Subject: [CP] Sarracenia Purpurea "Red Ruffles" I accidently tore a pitcher off my formerly beautiful S. Purpurea Red Ruffles during a rather disastrous attempt to split two plants that were fused together. I read in the CP Digest that a new plant might grow out of the pitcher if it was put in a large baggie with lots of water and Sphagnum moss in a nice, warm terrarium. That was back in December, and the pitcher seems to be doing fine, but it hasn't grown any roots yet. There was some of the white part on the base of the leaf. Anyone have any suggestions? Should I add some root-tone? Weak fertilizer solutions? Thanks, Laura O'Neal (Los Angeles) ################### From: buddhabear at usadatanet.net (Dustin Truesdell) Date: Thu May 26 14:18:46 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Sarracenia Purpurea "Red Ruffles" Hi Laura, you did the same thing that I did to one of my S. flava. I did the same thing as you and the pitcher has not really wilted or rotted at any extent either. I would like to hear your results. As for the addition of rooting hormones, I don't think Barry added any in the CPN article, however, I don't think it would hurt it the least! Cheers! ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Thu May 26 16:46:18 2005 Subject: [CP] VFT number plates !OT! Actually, I think we rent them from the state. I am not sure exactly how the system works in most states, but I'd assume that plates are recycled as necessary when the vehicle they belong to goes to the demo yard, or after a certain number of years passes without renewal stickers being issued. I've never heard of anyone selling the rights they have to the vanity plates they use, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen, just not as common as it seems to be there in the UK. I know that I can transfer my plates from one vehicle to another, but I've never heard of anyone transferring a plate without also transferring the vehicle that the plate is attached to. In a message dated 5/21/2005 3:25:40 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, nepenthesdave@hotmail.com writes: I know that you can buy plates in the US as well. A few years ago, I was watching the sun go down in Kings Canyon National Park, in California, when I was talking to a press photographer from LA. He had a number plate which read 'HAF DOM'. Most people will know that Half Dome is an outcrop of rock in Yosemite Nat Park. He called it an 'Enviromental Plate', and he paid for it each year, the money going to helping the enviroment in some way. TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Thu May 26 19:18:04 2005 Subject: [CP] VFT number plates !OT! Dear Hamir, The State maintains ownership of the plates, your license and all other State issued documents regarding your vehicle (ex: inspection stickers, title). Each specialty plate has a law associated with it for the purpose of generating funds for that plate's particular subject matter. Some plates cost more than others depending on the particular cause and how much of it is hoped will be taken care of by the funds generated by the plates-- Basically they are voluntary taxes. ? Are the auto plates in the UK handled by the national government? That would make it possible for people to own their plates. Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of HmrTheHrmt@aol.com Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 7:46 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Actually, I think we rent them from the state. I am not sure exactly how the system works in most states, but I'd assume that plates are recycled as necessary when the vehicle they belong to goes to the demo yard, or after a certain number of years passes without renewal stickers being issued. I've never heard of anyone selling the rights they have to the vanity plates they use, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen, just not as common as it seems to be there in the UK. I know that I can transfer my plates from one vehicle to another, but I've never heard of anyone transferring a plate without also transferring the vehicle that the plate is attached to. In a message dated 5/21/2005 3:25:40 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, nepenthesdave@hotmail.com writes: I know that you can buy plates in the US as well. A few years ago, I was watching the sun go down in Kings Canyon National Park, in California, when I was talking to a press photographer from LA. He had a number plate which read 'HAF DOM'. Most people will know that Half Dome is an outcrop of rock in Yosemite Nat Park. He called it an 'Environmental Plate', and he paid for it each year, the money going to helping the environment in some way. ################### From: philmann at geo.net.au (Phill Mann) Date: Thu May 26 23:01:48 2005 Subject: [CP] Barry's Field trip Barry Congratulations on the great photos. Just imagine what you could do and how many photos you would have if you came somewhere there were a real number of CP species (hint). You don't mention in the narration about your daughter being with you. The lovely young lady in the pine barrens (grovel) Well done and keep up the great information. Cheers Phill www.scarnivores.com To: Message-ID: <200505251938.j4PJboET010604@havana.ucdavis.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey Folks, I respectfully bring to your attention my most recent trip report, describing some recent explorations into Louisiana and Mississippi, timed to coincide with the annual flowering display of Sarracenia alata. Some very pretty photos, if I do say so myself! http://www.sarracenia.com/faq/faq7617.html ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Fri May 27 01:13:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Something for those with money to Burn...... This item is a bit too rich for my blood, but perhaps someone on the list has too much money and not enough ideas what to do with it? It really looks like a lovely piece. _Click here: eBay item 6535206989 (Ends Jun-05-05 19:00:00 PDT) - 1520: Rookwood Standard Glaze 11" vase, ARV, 1890; bubb_ (http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6535206989&sspagename=ADME:B:SS:US:1) TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Fri May 27 12:22:42 2005 Subject: [CP] Phill's inexplicable post Hey Phill, Hint understood! We can't all be so blessed. I'm saving my travel money! OK, but I'm completely lost regarding your comments on my daughter. I have one? B > Barry > > Congratulations on the great photos. Just imagine what you > could do and how many photos you would have if you came > somewhere there were a real number of CP species (hint). > You don't mention in the narration about your daughter being > with you. The lovely young lady in the pine barrens (grovel) > > Well done and keep up the great information. > > Cheers > Phill > www.scarnivores.com > ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Fri May 27 12:49:53 2005 Subject: [CP] Phill's inexplicable post > OK, but I'm completely lost regarding your comments > on my daughter. I have > one? WHAT? you dont remember that trip we took to malaysia to see the nepenthes where you got totally trashed? ################### From: pthiel at ecfactory.net (Pete Thiel) Date: Fri May 27 13:11:07 2005 Subject: [CP] Phill's inexplicable post Barry, I believe Phill was referring to the young lady in your photos, The one standing with you in the field of Sarracenia. Cheers Pete -----Original Message----- Of Barry Rice Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 3:23 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Hey Phill, Hint understood! We can't all be so blessed. I'm saving my travel money! OK, but I'm completely lost regarding your comments on my daughter. I have one? B > Barry > > Congratulations on the great photos. Just imagine what you could do > and how many photos you would have if you came somewhere there were a > real number of CP species (hint). > You don't mention in the narration about your daughter being with you. > The lovely young lady in the pine barrens (grovel) > > Well done and keep up the great information. > > Cheers > Phill > www.scarnivores.com > _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: barry_burch at excite.com (Barry Burch) Date: Fri May 27 19:34:17 2005 Subject: [CP] Dad? Strange that my mother named me Barry too. Now I know where I get my love of CP from...thanks dad. Hey, pops - send money soon. Your Son, Barry, Jr. _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Sat May 28 06:46:53 2005 Subject: [CP] Ownership of number plates Dave Evans wrote:- ' Are the auto plates in the UK handled by the national government? That would make it possible for people to own their plates.' I am not completely sure on this. I think when you buy a plate, you own the rights to use it on your car, although the UK government probably still owns the plate. You have to pay a transfer charge of 80 pounds to swap over the plates on your car. People tamper with their plates, with spacing and they put the rivots in funny places to make the plate spell things. In theory, the government can take the plate off of you when you do this, but they rarely do, or even prosecute. There is a plate on a car in Cambridge which is M10 KEY. The owner has put a rivot on the '0' to make it look like a 'C' and moved the spacing, so it reads MICKEY. Apparently, he is always getting pulled up by the police, but I don't think that they actually do anything. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Sat May 28 07:44:43 2005 Subject: [CP] looking for cp cultivars anyone selling cp cultivars. looking for fused tooth, cup, aki-ryu. already have dentata, not interested in green form really, maybe after i collect them all. looking forward to growing them all outside in south florida =) email me if you have any to sell. thanks! ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Sat May 28 07:45:51 2005 Subject: [CP] argh! cp cultivars i meant flytrap cultivars thanks! ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sat May 28 08:53:46 2005 Subject: [CP] Barry's Adventure Well Barry, I finally got around to reading your narritive and I sympithize with you about the realitor. At least the "Devils" are kind enough (usually) to give permission. Not that verbal is much good. Tre ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu) Date: Sat May 28 09:40:07 2005 Subject: [CP] Trip report: Louisiana, Mississippi Dear Barry, "Here is another photograph of the weird, long-leafed "Drosera capillaris." (And here is yet another!) The plants were about 5-6 cm across. If you want to email me to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about, and that these plants are clearly Drosera intermedia, please also include your explanation of what's going on with the stipules of this plant---a feature that up until now has seemed to be more reliable than leaf shape at identifying the species." Re: No I don't think it is _D. intermedia_ nor is it _D. capillaris_. Hmm... What could it be? I suspect it is another brand new species, with an origin similar to that of _D. anglica_. Or it's simply an undescribed species related to _D. capillaris_ and _D. intermedia_. Ivan Snyder sent me some seeds in late 2003, which germinated quickly surprising Ivan, since many other folks have not had them germinate. I do wonder, is this still the case? The seed was a match for seed collected from positively ID'ed _D. capillaris_, (though a bit larger) but the plants are not a match. Oh, this plant has been mentioned to be similar to _D._ sp. (Chapada), but I think that plant really is a South American form of _D. capillaris_ (probably not from Chapada Diamantina, though I suppose it could be from some other Chapada--there are several), while the 'long-arm' is not a _D. capillaris_, well maybe half of it is. Oh and the flowers are pink, not a trait known from _D. intermedia_. The flower scapes are hairless and ascending, both traits _D. capillaris_ and _D. intermedia_ each share. Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of Barry Rice Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 3:38 PM Hey Folks, I respectfully bring to your attention my most recent trip report, describing some recent explorations into Louisiana and Mississippi, timed to coincide with the annual flowering display of Sarracenia alata. Some very pretty photos, if I do say so myself! http://www.sarracenia.com/faq/faq7617.html B Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. FAQ--Author http://www.sarracenia.com/faq.html Galleria Carnivora--Curator http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/galleria.html ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Sat May 28 12:03:39 2005 Subject: [CP] Wanted: U. juncea and U. resupinata Reversed Bladderwort Utricularia resupinata Southern Bladderwort Utricularia juncea Wolf ################### From: cwmorrow at gbronline.com (Wayne Morrow) Date: Sat May 28 20:51:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Darlingtonia in floating pots I've googled "floating planters" with some results, but I wonder what brand and size have been used for Cobra Lillies. Thanks, Wayne ################### From: simon at gigamail.cc (simon) Date: Sat May 28 21:02:23 2005 Subject: [CP] Darlingtonia in floating pots To all CP lovers who perform a lot of searches on the net, I recommend my search engine, www.ekazaam.com. This new SE will enable you to try more than one hundred SEs in over 10 categories with just your mouse. Live with passion! Simon > -----Original Message----- > From: Wayne Morrow > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Sent: Sat, 28 May 2005 22:51:02 -0500 > Subject: [CP] Darlingtonia in floating pots > >I've googled "floating planters" with some results, but I wonder what >brand and size have been used for Cobra Lillies. > >Thanks, >Wayne > > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Sat May 28 21:35:00 2005 Subject: [CP] Darlingtonia in floating pots honestly i wonder if thats the key to growing darlingtonia in south florida. it can get pretty damn hot in northern california but the root system still stays cool. i wonder if a water garden or a very large pot of water with a floating darlingtonia bog would be able to keep the root system cool enough to let it thrive. the larger the body of water the better as it acts as a battery for hot or cold because theres a lag in water temperature changing. youd have to fill the pot or pond with RO or drinking water or rainwater because south floridas water is far too alkaline and im not sure how alkaline darlingtonia could handle. in addition you could cover the floating bog with sundews and live sphagnum to make it look attractive. googling i saw this http://store.watergardenweb.com/flispl.html they have some nice cheap small ones too. --- Wayne Morrow wrote: > I've googled "floating planters" with some results, > but I wonder what > brand and size have been used for Cobra Lillies. > > Thanks, > Wayne ################### From: flaneps at hotmail.com (Michelle and Trent ) Date: Sun May 29 14:23:46 2005 Subject: [CP] N. treubiana In Natural Habitat Hi Everyone, We wanted to share some photos all Nepenthephiles will love. Here is the link: http://www.sunbelleexotics.com/Sunbelle/Photo_Neps_treubiana.htm Enjoy seeing the pics of N. treubiana in its native habitat growing on sheer limestone cliffs. Trent and Michelle ################### From: owns6196 at comcast.net (owns6196@comcast.net) Date: Sun May 29 17:42:21 2005 Subject: [CP] A Newbie Question I am new to Carnivorous Plants and I need to know is peat moss alone good for transplanting a Venus Fly Trap? Sincerely David Owings Ferrets have a way of weaseling their way into your heart and once they do they never leave and I wouldn't have it any other way ################### From: hpulley at rogers.com (Harry Pulley) Date: Mon May 30 05:15:54 2005 Subject: [CP] A Newbie Question > I am new to Carnivorous Plants and I need to know is peat moss alone good > for transplanting a Venus Fly Trap? I grow mine in pure peat with a layer of live or dead sphagnum on top and they seem to like it. Harry -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.2.0 - Release Date: 5/27/05 ################### From: meadow at bealenet.com (meadow@bealenet.com) Date: Mon May 30 15:10:31 2005 Subject: [CP] Bary's trip and pink S. alata blooms Hi Folks: Read Barry's comments and saw his pictures about pink-blushed S. alata blooms in Louisiana. These plants are most likely NOT hybrids. We have plants from western Louisiana, far outside the range of possible hybridization, that produce these kinds of blooms. The key here is that this "blushing" occurs as the flower ages. When the plant first blooms the flowers are light yellow. I think the "blush" is produced as a breakdown product in the flowers. A hybid would typically produce pink flowers on initial blooming. Sincerely, Phil Sheridan Director Meadowview Biological Research Sation http://www.bealenet.com ################### From: captotterboy at hot-shot.com (jeff spiegelman) Date: Mon May 30 18:15:33 2005 Subject: [CP] A game for CP lovers everywhere Ok, quite on accident, i just played one of the most fun games ive ever played, "CP Roulette" I wanted to feed one of my VFT's. So i caught a fly and went to injur it so i could get it with some needle nose plyers and hand feed my plant. Well, the fly escaped into my terrarium. I just shrugged my shoulders and closed the lid. So heres the game. You place bets on what plant will eat the fly, at this point buzzing around my terrarium, drunk on attractants. Best twenty minutes of my life. For those of you that are woundering... It looked like the D. Spatulata was going to take it, but at about 23 minutes, the fly disapeared into the gaping mouth of the winner, N. ventricosa "red" variety FOr those of you with terrariums that have closing lids, some free time, and quick reflexes... this is a blast. Thanks, Jeff -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Mon May 30 20:13:45 2005 Subject: [CP] A newby question David Owings asked:- "I am new to Carnivorous Plants and I need to know is peat moss alone good for transplanting a Venus Fly Trap?". The fairly standard compost for VFT's over the years has been 2 parts sphagnum moss peat (we say it round the other way in the UK) to 1 part lime-free sharp sand. The only problem with this is that there is an awful lot of "lime-free" sharp sand that has been proven to have lime in it. You only have to add a bit of dilute acid to the sand, and it will often fizzle because it actually contains lime. This sand won't do your VFT's any good as they particularly sensitive to it. Other carnivores such as Sarracenia may not react so badly to it though. A lot of growers in the UK are not using sand with their VFT's for this reason. They often add a bit of perlite with the mix. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: kdubash at vsnl.com (K Dubash) Date: Tue May 31 07:41:26 2005 Subject: [CP] newbie here too Hi, I have a similar question. I too am new to cp's and I have just bought some dioneas and droseras. There are planted in peat moss, but the problem is that this is just available in this country. Can i subsitute plain moss...dead...with peat moss? Thanks, Khushroo I am new to Carnivorous Plants and I need to know is peat moss alone good for transplanting a Venus Fly Trap? Sincerely David Owings ################### From: hpulley at rogers.com (Harry Pulley) Date: Tue May 31 07:57:09 2005 Subject: [CP] newbie here too --- K Dubash wrote: > I have a similar question. > > I too am new to cp's and I have just bought some > dioneas and droseras. There > are planted in peat moss, but the problem is that > this is just available in > this country. Can i subsitute plain > moss...dead...with peat moss? No, plain dead moss is not the same as sphagnum moss. Do you need to repot right away? If not, I'd wait until you can get some true peat. :-{} Harry C. Pulley, IV mailto:hpulley@rogers.com http://ca.geocities.com/hpulley4@rogers.com Guelph, Ontario, Canada ################### From: dhw at e-atelier.com (David Wong) Date: Tue May 31 11:12:37 2005 Subject: [CP] VANCOUVER Carnivorous Plant meeting: Sun. June 19, 2005 Hi everyone- This message going out on the CP listserve and privately via your email addresses from Chris Teichrib who has been (and still is) diligently keeping the fire alive with the CP enthusiasts around Vancouver, Canada. Chris is currently in Alberta, but we hope to see him back soon. I?ve been recently receiving inquires from old CP folks ...with some of my old CP friends dating back 30+ years! I?ve gotten over the theft of my large Nepenthes collection (10 years ago) and have been watching the efforts of the new Vancouver CP Club. Anyways, I?m forwarding a meeting date prepared by Chris and Lorne. Hope to see all of you in a few weeks. I?ll bring along my 30 year old photo album of my pics of CPs, including photos of N. Burbidgea, N. Rajah, N. Villosa, N. Rafflesiana, and many others in the wild during my practice in SE Asia. Please email me to indicate if you?re still interested in attending. And those that know me, know that I wish to limit the participation of local commercial growers...whose questionable ?altruistic involvements? have hurt the efforts of serious hobbyists. David Wong Vancouver --------- I?ve cut the following message from the VCPC webiste: http://www.geocities.com/vcpc2000/meetings.html Meeting Details, 2005 Well, I hope everyone had a good winter. Here are the new dates for this years meetings. There are 2 dates for this year, in June and in September. When: Okay, so I have the dates for this year, 2005. The dates are June 19, and September 17. Hope to see you there. Members: Doors of the Kinsmen Pavilion will open at 9:00 am for members selling plants ONLY!. You won't miss out on the sales if you don't have anything for sale, this just allows us to set-up sales tables. Members only sale is from 9:30 am to 10:15 am. You must be a member to buy plants. Member only only show and sale will be held from 10:15 to 10:45 am. You must be a member to attend this part of the show! Public: The public show and sale will be held from 11:00 am to 3:00 pm in the Main Pavilion. Everyone is welcome to attend the public show and sale, and consider joining up to take advantage of members only sales in the future! Where: All meetings are held at the Richmond Nature Centre, Richmond, British Columbia. ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Tue May 31 12:24:39 2005 Subject: [CP] S. alata with pink-blush blooms. Hi Phil, Hmmm. A couple of counter-comments. First off, though, let me point out that the plants were not in Louisiana as you noted, but in Mississippi. 1)I saw many S. alata plants with flowers past their prime on this trip, and the petals generally just faded from the white, cream, or yellow to straw-colored, crumpled versions, as one might expect. 2)I cannot discount that the flowers on these plants might have started off with white, cream, or yellow petals, which then aged to pink. But that is certainly not normally seen in S. alata, and even if the effect was transitional, it might be of hybrid origin. 3)If this effect was transitional, it is interesting to note that all the flowers that we saw in this cluster, i.e. http://www.sarracenia.com/photos/sarracenia/salat19.jpg, were in the same state. I suppose you could argue that they came up all-yellow, but then rapidly aged to pink and stayed in that stage long enough for all the plants to appear that way (since the flowers were unlikely to have flowered exactly simultaneously), but it would be unlikely that these plants turn pink as a final hurrah! just before the petals withered away. The flowers looked like they were all in great shape. Who knows? Cheers Barry > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 22:09:24 GMT > From: meadow@bealenet.com > Subject: [CP] Bary's trip and pink S. alata blooms > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <429b8f14.3295.0@bealenet.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Hi Folks: > > Read Barry's comments and saw his pictures about pink-blushed > S. alata blooms in Louisiana. These plants are most likely > NOT hybrids. We have plants from western Louisiana, far > outside the range of possible hybridization, that produce > these kinds of blooms. The key here is that this "blushing" > occurs as the flower ages. When the plant first blooms the > flowers are light yellow. I think the "blush" is produced as > a breakdown product in the flowers. A hybid would typically > produce pink flowers on initial blooming. > ********************************** ################### From: pyrzynskij at worldnet.att.net (Jim Pyrzynski) Date: Tue May 31 12:41:38 2005 Subject: [CP] June 2005 Natural History article The June 2005 issue of Natural History has an article on the biomechanics of the Venus Flytrap - comparing the mechanism to a -- toilet plunger (see pg. 26 - 27). Jim Pyrzynski ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Tue May 31 13:55:04 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: a new game wow! that sounds like great fun! -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com Powered by Outblaze ################### From: Writerguy67 at aol.com (Writerguy67@aol.com) Date: Tue May 31 14:34:54 2005 Subject: [CP] S. alata with pink-blush blooms. I concur with Barry ... I found two clones of pink-petaled S. alata amid a stand of cream-colored clones (at least an acre, if not more, in size). It was late in the flowering season for S. alata, but these were the only two clones observed that were pink. All others were fading more-or-less as Barry described in his last e-mail. Also interesting to note (?) That these plants share the locale with S. psittacina, and I observed a few early-flowering S. psittacinas overlapping with late-flowering S. alatas. So hybridization (and subsequent introgression) is certainly possible. S. alata dominates, so it is again possible that a hybrid would quickly mix with the dominant species in the area. ################### From: ThomBroGar at aol.com (ThomBroGar@aol.com) Date: Tue May 31 16:15:00 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Request for pics of Borneo Exotics Chelsea display Someone had requested photos of the Borneo Exotics display at this year's Chelsea Flower Show. I snapped a few for you. I hope this is what you wanted and you can see clearly enough. Enjoy! They did get a silver gilt medal (that is just one below gold, the highest) Well done chaps! http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin/ib312/ikonboard.cgi?s=95fea6aa53a88b04b9a941cf19e9d067;act=ST;f=7;t=18926;st=0;&#entry187915 ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Tue May 31 18:40:16 2005 Subject: [CP] Botanique will for business in November Thought you might want to know if you need any CP? Wolf -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Botanique http://www.pitcherplant.com Seasonal News Last Update: May 22, 2005. Botanique will close its doors as a business in November. Until that time, we will provide the best quality plants. Some prices will be going up and some new items will be added in an effort to reduce the number of plants we have. The labor required of me (Rob) to do research, maintain the tens of thousands of plants and process orders to our high standards has required 12-14 hour work days, seven days a week for months on end, basically without pay. Despite an extremely efficient, debt-free operation, proceeds/profits have not been sufficient to continue. Many brilliant people, familiar with our operation, have suggested that Botanique become a non-profit organization. This, if successful, would prevent a major tragedy. There is no place on earth like this nursery; it is truly amazing. When the National Geographic photographer came to take pictures for the May 1992 issue, even he was surprised. We've grown considerably since that time and had hoped to provide ecological, educational, sales and research services, paid for by profits. The hope was a non-profit style organization that did not need to raise outside support (fund raise). However, it has become clear that this model has not worked. Our only hope is to reformat as a non-profit organization and evaluate the results. A mission statement is being written and there is a ninety-five percent certainty that we will try this new structure. Butch Bailey and I are collecting information, planning, and hoping that public support will allow us to continue. If you are interested, keep checking this web site. Rob will begin collecting potential donor information immediately. Persons potentially interested as donors should e-mail me (Rob) at:botanique@pitcherplant.com. Please put the word "donor" in the subject line. 2006 is the target date for the change, once the decision is final. No donations will be accepted until such time that we are fully established as a non-profit entity. Botanique is a lot larger than its web site indicates, with research projects, new plant development, support for Botanical institutions and other nurseries. I'll try to update this site in an attempt to reflect these efforts. Thank you to everyone who has supported Botanique over the years! Sincerely, Rob Sacilotto ################### From: RL7836 at earthlink.net (Ron Lane) Date: Tue May 31 21:06:36 2005 Subject: [CP] Methods of non-USA payment Probably a silly question. How do the USA members of this list pay for items overseas? (Particularly when Visa & Paypal are not viable options). Moneyorders payable in GBP. The post office tells me the bank should issue them and the bank tells me the post office issues them. Do I need to locate another bank or are there other options? Find a friend in England, send them money via Paypal and ask them to send a check? This has been recommended but I doubt I'll keep friends for long and I can't believe this is sustainable.... Guidance / suggestions appreciated. Ron Lane RL7836@earthlink.net Central NJ, USA ################### From: cp at pwilson.demon.co.uk (cp@pwilson.demon.co.uk) Date: Wed Jun 1 01:36:47 2005 Subject: [CP] Methods of non-USA payment Hi Ron, > Probably a silly question. > > How do the USA members of this list pay for items overseas? > (Particularly when Visa & Paypal are not viable options). > > Moneyorders payable in GBP. The post office tells me the bank should > issue them and the bank tells me the post office issues them. Do I need > to locate another bank or are there other options? > > Find a friend in England, send them money via Paypal and ask them to > send a check? This has been recommended but I doubt I'll keep friends > for long and I can't believe this is sustainable.... > For small items I find the most economical way is to send cash - US Dollars if accepted or if not, local currency. Always use registered mail to send cash. Although not at all secure, for small amounts, you will probably pay almost as much again in charges for other methods. For larger amounts I recommend international bank transfers. These have been pretty much standardised world-wide though the USA could be the exception to that rule. :-) Your bank ought to be able to arrange this - emphasis on "ought"... International bank transfers are relatively fast, though the banks will usually hang onto your money for anything up to seven days. They are very secure though bank charges seem to vary enormously depending on the bank and the country concerned. Otherwise, you will need to cultivate some English friends with PayPal accounts...:-) Regards, Phil Wilson ################### From: Sundew1802 at aol.com (Sundew1802@aol.com) Date: Wed Jun 1 05:16:45 2005 Subject: [CP] newbie here too/another point of view ################### From: paul.temple at eds.com (Temple, Paul) Date: Wed Jun 1 07:29:20 2005 Subject: [CP] Off Topic - but re CP Meet 2006 & Avis Preferred Supplier Hi all. Sorry for this - I know it'll annoy some. However, the 6th Annual Carnivorous Plant society is advertising that AVIS is the preferred car rental supplier, evidently Avis are offering a "10% discount" on bookings for the event. I've no criticism of the people arranging this event, in fact, I admire their effort and commitment - I applaud ALL their efforts. However, I want to warn people about my views on Avis. About 1 year ago, on my last but one trip to the Dominican Republic, I had to hire a car for 7 weeks, a potentially expensive requirement. I visited the Avis website but it wouldn't allow users to make a booking for such a length of time. So I went to Thomas Cook a very well known very large Travel Agency. They booked not only my flights but my Avis car rental and I paid Thomas Cook (who paid Avis). Using a telephone booking service with an Avis Agent (to overcome the 7 week duration problem) they confirmed a price with Avis for a 7 week hire that included all related fees (pick-up, insurance, etc.). While sitting in the shop I queried the price (Thomas cook praised me for my honesty), I asked explicitly if the price being quoted to me was too low, and the Thomas Cook agent relayed my query to ask the Avis agent to confirm that the price was not too low. The Avis agent reconfirmed the same price, so, I accepted it. Thomas Cook confirmed the booking with Avis and I imm! ediately paid in full, thus constituting a legally binding contract. Several days later I received a letter saying that Avis had withdrawn the booking as the price was too low. Under UK law, once a booking has been accepted or a payment accepted (even in part payment of a firm offer), this forms a binding contract on all parties. In my opinion (and that of others), Avis illegally attempted to unilaterally cancel or renege on their contract with me. I visited Thomas Cook and to give the local shop and manager credit, they backed me totally. They phoned Avis (it's worth noting that in the ensuing arguments, when asked what the correct price was should have been a senior Avis Manager quoted two different prices for a 7 week hire and both were also different to what I was originally quoted or eventually had to pay!!!). After several calls over several days, an Avis manager finally agreed that they should and would honour the original contract. At this time, it is my firm opinion that they reconfirmed that the price I originally agreed to and! paid was accepted and covered a 7 week hire inclusive of all other related fees (insurance, etc.). All this was conveyed to me via the Thomas Cook representative during a telephone call that I actually heard. All was also witnessed by another senior Thomas Cook representative who participated in or listened in to all discussions with Avis. Before the final call with the Avis Manager ended, I asked Thomas Cook to confirm with him that no more payments would be required for any reason either while I was still in the UK or once I was in the Dominican Republic. The Avis Manager confirmed this first to me personally and then, at my request, to Thomas Cook (again witnessed by a second Thomas Cook representative and myself) that "no more payments would be required from me for any reason". Also before the call ended, I asked for confirmation that the Avis Manager would ensure that the Avis Rental Office in Santo Domingo Airport would be fully informed of the terms of my car r! ental contract such that they would not attempt to charge me extra. A gain, it is my firm opinion that the Avis Manager agreed to do this in a statement heard/witnessed by the two Thomas Cook representatives and me (both witnesses have confirmed to me that they heard what thought I heard). So now I went to the Dominican Republic and, sure enough, a car was waiting for me. I used it for 7 weeks and then returned it to the Avis office at the Santo Domingo airport, on time. There, the local Avis Office demanded a further payment of approximately $200/?100 from me because their records showed that I had not paid the full rental charge!!! I had a straight choice - pay up or miss my flight and risk being faced with the Police (as was in my opinion made clear). I paid up, in my opinion this was nothing short of blackmail, but wrote on the documents (that recorded my payment) that I was paying while under unfair threat and that I disagreed with the demand for such payment. A witness was present to observe all this. On my return to the UK, I complained - under UK law I believe it should be Thomas Cook that I complain to as they made the booking for me. All attempts by them to get Avis to honour their commitment and return the money extracted from me, in my opinion while under threat by Avis representatives in the Dominican Republic, have failed. Senior management in Thomas Cook do not even respond to me telling me why Avis have failed to refund me the payment that I believe Avis promised would not be required. (For this reason I will also never again do business with Thomas Cook.) In discussion with Thomas Cook staff in a local shop, it is my understanding that their opinion is that this is not the first time that they have heard of Avis making such demands for payment when the customer believes he or she is not in a position to refuse (i.e. running out of time to meet a flight). I cannot promise that Avis will treat you as I believe they have treated me. But I do know that I will not use Avis ever again, and a 10% discount offer is of no value to me if there is every reason for me to believe that I may eventually be charged significantly more than I contract to pay when faced with the choice of paying a demand or missing my flight and having the Police called. As to those who might wish to warn me about the laws of libel - everything said here (and more) is in writing to Thomas Cook and thence to Avis. I still have the evidence that proves everything I have said is true. If Avis (or Thomas Cook) want to try suing me I will enjoy every second of publicly proving how, in my opinion, they treat their customers! So, in case it is not clear, in my personal opinion it would be unwise for anyone to use Avis or Thomas Cook in the belief that the amount you contract to pay will be all that you eventually have to pay and (again in my opinion) unwise to use Thomas Cook if you believe they will ensure that the contracts they arrange on your behalf will be honoured by their partners or service suppliers. You have been warned. Regards Paul ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Wed Jun 1 11:03:46 2005 Subject: [CP] CP] re: repotting flytraps My grow in mix of long fiber S. moss and perlite in 6 inch pots,and they do fine. I been doing this for about a year,and no problems. I also grow all my cp this way,except pot size are differ for certain plants. Pither plants in 10 in.,flytraps in 6 in.,sundews in 4 in.,and terr bladderworts in 2 inch tuffer containers. Wolf ################### From: MHowlett at hcp4.net (Howlett, Mike) Date: Wed Jun 1 13:34:28 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: S. alata with pink-blush blooms Barry and Phil - I would also concur with Barry. At the Covington, LA site - the site we were invited to rescue CPs from about a month ago - there were hundreds, if not thousands of S. alata. There was incredible diversity of pitcher height, shape and coloration. There was even one genet of S. psittacina collected as well. Not a single alata inflorescence, however, exhibited any blush of pink in the petals. None. I have a S. alata 'black/red' clone in my collection, which I was told is a Mississippi clone, and it has flowered annually for several years now. Not a single flower has had any blush to the petals. I have seen the 'blush' that is sometimes seen on older S. alata petals, but this 'blush' is easily differentiated from a true pink hue by the shriveled appearance of the petals as this darkening begins. The petals of the S. alatas that Barry has shown are obviously not very old. I think that any of us who have seen Sarracenia inflorescences can attest to the difference between an older, shriveling discolored S. alata petal and a fresh new S. alata petal with pink hues. The only time I have seen this kind of pink hue in S. alata is in instances of hybridization, like the unfortunate occurrence at the Watson Pinelands Preserve, here in Texas. As for the pink hue to some inflorescences in supposedly pure S. alata stands, I (IMHO) attribute this to hybridization to human means. As someone who also teaches visitors to our park about early Texas history, specifically about early European settlement in the 1820s and 1830s, I can easily imagine one of these early settler families digging up a S. leucophylla as they were traveling to Texas. And I can easily imagine them gazing in wonder when they arrived here and found many more similar plants (S. alata) already here. Settlers planting the S. leucophylla in the midst of the native S. alata stands is not only plausible, but highly likely IMHO. And after 175 years of hybridization, I can also easily imagine plants that look almost identical to the native S. alata, but with minor morphological variations, like areoles or petals with a pink hue. Why not? We've distributed so many other organisms all over the globe. Red-eared slider turtles, _Trachemys scripta elegans_, are native to the southeastern U. S. but now found on every continent due to releases by humans. I guess Barry did a great job of summing it up: Who knows? Anyone out there want to do some mDNA testing? BTW - I want to publicly thank those kind and generous persons from this list who donated to the Watson Pinelands Preserve to help with restoration efforts of the boardwalk. Contributions are well over $200, and there are still some of the S. x areolata plants left. Please contact me off-list if anyone else is interested in obtaining some of these. Regards, Mike Howlett Naturalist, Herpetoculturist & Carnivorous Plant Enthusiast Jesse H. Jones Park & Nature Center 20634 Kenswick Drive Humble, TX 77338 281-446-8588 mhowlett@hcp4.net www.hcp4.net/jones -----Original Message----- Message: 1 To: Cc: Phil Sheridan Message-ID: <200505311924.j4VJOSms011341@frankfurt.ucdavis.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hi Phil, Hmmm. A couple of counter-comments. First off, though, let me point out that the plants were not in Louisiana as you noted, but in Mississippi. 1)I saw many S. alata plants with flowers past their prime on this trip, and the petals generally just faded from the white, cream, or yellow to straw-colored, crumpled versions, as one might expect. 2)I cannot discount that the flowers on these plants might have started off with white, cream, or yellow petals, which then aged to pink. But that is certainly not normally seen in S. alata, and even if the effect was transitional, it might be of hybrid origin. 3)If this effect was transitional, it is interesting to note that all the flowers that we saw in this cluster, i.e. http://www.sarracenia.com/photos/sarracenia/salat19.jpg, were in the same state. I suppose you could argue that they came up all-yellow, but then rapidly aged to pink and stayed in that stage long enough for all the plants to appear that way (since the flowers were unlikely to have flowered exactly simultaneously), but it would be unlikely that these plants turn pink as a final hurrah! just before the petals withered away. The flowers looked like they were all in great shape. Who knows? Cheers Barry > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 22:09:24 GMT > From: meadow@bealenet.com > Subject: [CP] Bary's trip and pink S. alata blooms > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <429b8f14.3295.0@bealenet.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Hi Folks: > > Read Barry's comments and saw his pictures about pink-blushed S. alata > blooms in Louisiana. These plants are most likely NOT hybrids. We have > plants from western Louisiana, far outside the range of possible > hybridization, that produce these kinds of blooms. The key here is > that this "blushing" > occurs as the flower ages. When the plant first blooms the flowers are > light yellow. I think the "blush" is produced as a breakdown product > in the flowers. A hybid would typically produce pink flowers on > initial blooming. > ********************************** ################### From: dhw at e-atelier.com (David Wong) Date: Wed Jun 1 14:03:16 2005 Subject: [CP] Off Topic - but re CP Meet 2006 & Avis Preferred Supplier Hi Paul- Wow...quite an experience! I can sympathize with you. In my business, I used to do a lot of travelling...and a lot of times included personal site visits to CP locales around the world. I shared a similar incident to yours, whose car rental company I will not mention here, but did eventually return money charged to my account without my authorization (after completion of my business). It took a few calls and threat of litigation before they relented and reimbursed me. The other course of action I had was to inform my credit card company of the circumstances so that they could take appropriate action...however, they wanted me to undertake the effort first before they would initiate theirs. Good luck, and thank you for sharing your thoughts. I will support my fellow CP'er and will take my company's business away from AVIS. David Wong Vancouver --- On 6/1/05 7:23 AM, "Temple, Paul" wrote: > Hi all. > > Sorry for this - I know it'll annoy some. However, the 6th Annual Carnivorous > Plant society is advertising that AVIS is the preferred car rental supplier, > evidently Avis are offering a "10% discount" on bookings for the event. I've > no criticism of the people arranging this event, in fact, I admire their > effort and commitment - I applaud ALL their efforts. However, I want to warn > people about my views on Avis. > > About 1 year ago, on my last but one trip to the Dominican Republic, I had to > hire a car for 7 weeks, a potentially expensive requirement. I visited the > Avis website but it wouldn't allow users to make a booking for such a length > of time. So I went to Thomas Cook a very well known very large Travel Agency. > They booked not only my flights but my Avis car rental and I paid Thomas Cook > (who paid Avis). Using a telephone booking service with an Avis Agent (to > overcome the 7 week duration problem) they confirmed a price with Avis for a 7 > week hire that included all related fees (pick-up, insurance, etc.). While > sitting in the shop I queried the price (Thomas cook praised me for my > honesty), I asked explicitly if the price being quoted to me was too low, and > the Thomas Cook agent relayed my query to ask the Avis agent to confirm that > the price was not too low. The Avis agent reconfirmed the same price, so, I > accepted it. Thomas Cook confirmed the booking with Avis and I imm! > ediately paid in full, thus constituting a legally binding contract. > > Several days later I received a letter saying that Avis had withdrawn the > booking as the price was too low. Under UK law, once a booking has been > accepted or a payment accepted (even in part payment of a firm offer), this > forms a binding contract on all parties. In my opinion (and that of others), > Avis illegally attempted to unilaterally cancel or renege on their contract > with me. I visited Thomas Cook and to give the local shop and manager credit, > they backed me totally. They phoned Avis (it's worth noting that in the > ensuing arguments, when asked what the correct price was should have been a > senior Avis Manager quoted two different prices for a 7 week hire and both > were also different to what I was originally quoted or eventually had to > pay!!!). After several calls over several days, an Avis manager finally > agreed that they should and would honour the original contract. At this time, > it is my firm opinion that they reconfirmed that the price I originally agreed > to and! > paid was accepted and covered a 7 week hire inclusive of all other related > fees (insurance, etc.). All this was conveyed to me via the Thomas Cook > representative during a telephone call that I actually heard. All was also > witnessed by another senior Thomas Cook representative who participated in or > listened in to all discussions with Avis. Before the final call with the Avis > Manager ended, I asked Thomas Cook to confirm with him that no more payments > would be required for any reason either while I was still in the UK or once I > was in the Dominican Republic. The Avis Manager confirmed this first to me > personally and then, at my request, to Thomas Cook (again witnessed by a > second Thomas Cook representative and myself) that "no more payments would be > required from me for any reason". Also before the call ended, I asked for > confirmation that the Avis Manager would ensure that the Avis Rental Office in > Santo Domingo Airport would be fully informed of the terms of my car r! > ental contract such that they would not attempt to charge me extra. A > gain, it is my firm opinion that the Avis Manager agreed to do this in a > statement heard/witnessed by the two Thomas Cook representatives and me (both > witnesses have confirmed to me that they heard what thought I heard). > > So now I went to the Dominican Republic and, sure enough, a car was waiting > for me. I used it for 7 weeks and then returned it to the Avis office at the > Santo Domingo airport, on time. There, the local Avis Office demanded a > further payment of approximately $200/?100 from me because their records > showed that I had not paid the full rental charge!!! I had a straight choice > - pay up or miss my flight and risk being faced with the Police (as was in my > opinion made clear). I paid up, in my opinion this was nothing short of > blackmail, but wrote on the documents (that recorded my payment) that I was > paying while under unfair threat and that I disagreed with the demand for such > payment. A witness was present to observe all this. > > On my return to the UK, I complained - under UK law I believe it should be > Thomas Cook that I complain to as they made the booking for me. All attempts > by them to get Avis to honour their commitment and return the money extracted > from me, in my opinion while under threat by Avis representatives in the > Dominican Republic, have failed. Senior management in Thomas Cook do not even > respond to me telling me why Avis have failed to refund me the payment that I > believe Avis promised would not be required. (For this reason I will also > never again do business with Thomas Cook.) In discussion with Thomas Cook > staff in a local shop, it is my understanding that their opinion is that this > is not the first time that they have heard of Avis making such demands for > payment when the customer believes he or she is not in a position to refuse > (i.e. running out of time to meet a flight). > > I cannot promise that Avis will treat you as I believe they have treated me. > But I do know that I will not use Avis ever again, and a 10% discount offer is > of no value to me if there is every reason for me to believe that I may > eventually be charged significantly more than I contract to pay when faced > with the choice of paying a demand or missing my flight and having the Police > called. > > As to those who might wish to warn me about the laws of libel - everything > said here (and more) is in writing to Thomas Cook and thence to Avis. I still > have the evidence that proves everything I have said is true. If Avis (or > Thomas Cook) want to try suing me I will enjoy every second of publicly > proving how, in my opinion, they treat their customers! > > So, in case it is not clear, in my personal opinion it would be unwise for > anyone to use Avis or Thomas Cook in the belief that the amount you contract > to pay will be all that you eventually have to pay and (again in my opinion) > unwise to use Thomas Cook if you believe they will ensure that the contracts > they arrange on your behalf will be honoured by their partners or service > suppliers. You have been warned. > > Regards > > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Wed Jun 1 14:53:58 2005 Subject: [CP] CP conf 2006 and Avis Can't see the following is off topic myself, it is about the ICPS conference after all. Paul Temple was writing about his experiences with Avis. I must admit that I have not had any problems with Avis in the past. I have found their rates competitive as well, but I have rented them as a bog standard rental, with nothing out of the ordinary. Just one thing. I have noticed that, on the map that the conference organisers have posted, there is a place called Accident. Will Avis allow us to drive there ? or will they add extra insurance costs to the bill ? Anyway, thanks Paul for alerting us all to the posting about the conference on the ICPS website. I have been looking at it fairly regularly, but I didn't notice anything about it lately. Some of the packages look quite good. I was considering coming for two weeks because with jet lag, it makes the holiday more pleasant, so I might rent a car instead of taking up all the transport offers. So, I will have to save my pennies for the trip. Oh darn, I've just spent them on a personalised number plate. Have to see what I can do. Regards Davd Ahrens London. ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Wed Jun 1 16:40:45 2005 Subject: [CP] Trip report: Louisiana, Mississippi Hey Dave, >Re: No I don't think it is _D. intermedia_ nor is it _D. capillaris_. Hmm... What could it be? I suspect it is another brand new species, with an origin similar to that of _D. anglica_. Or it's simply an undescribed species related to _D. capillaris_ and _D. intermedia_. Do you think then that the plant Barry found is differente from that D.capillaris "long leaf" popular in cultivation? >...Oh, this plant has been mentioned to be similar to _D._ sp. (Chapada), but I think that plant really is a South American form of _D. capillaris_ (probably not from Chapada Diamantina, though I suppose it could be from some other Chapada--there are several)... Whatever that plant is, there is absolutely no reason to believe it is even from Brazil. Nothing similar is known from any of the Chapadas and I can find no report of others collecting such a Drosera anywhere in Brazil. To me all evidence suggests this plant got mixed up in cultivation, maybe germinating where it shouldn't have -- in a pot with seeds of a Drosera from one of the Brazilian Chapadas. Maybe it's an accidental hybrid made in clultivation. Take Care, Fernando Rivadavia ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Wed Jun 1 16:40:47 2005 Subject: [CP] Heliamphora Hello Tre, > What species and subspecies are there as of right now I have found way too many: > H.chimantensis > H.elongata > H.folliculata > H.heterodoxa > H.hispida > H.ionasi > H.macdonaldae > H.minor > H.neblinae > H.nutans > H.sarracenioides > H.tatei (multiple subspeies but I am not sure what is correct) > H.tyleri H.tatei may have subspecies, if you consider H.neblinae one for example. After my most recent trip to Neblina, I am conviced H.neblinae is in fact a good species, separate from H.tatei. I also had the chance of seeing type H.tatei on Mt.Duida growing with a taxon not considered by most as a good species: H.macdonaldae -- but which I am now convinced is in fact valid. Don't know about H.tyleri though. Nor has it been ruled out that H.sarracenioides isn't just a freak mutant going clonal in a small area. Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Wed Jun 1 16:40:49 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: D.meristocaulis update Hello Ivan!! > My D. meristocaulis seedlings seem to be growing well enough. The largest have 9 leaves and the stipules are visible. They look just like the photos of the smallest wild plants showed during your slide show presentation. I have transplanted the largest plants and had no trouble doing so. Most of mine are planted in long fiber sphagnum. I had one germinate more recently on podsol, which is all-natural silica sand soil. I'll let you know when the flowers begin to form:-) Nearly 2 months have passed since this last post and I was curious to know how things are going with your D.meristocaulis seedlings... I'd also like to hear knews from others successes as well as failures! What about that other seed experiment you were carrying out Ivan (salt water)? Tried anything new? Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Wed Jun 1 17:42:54 2005 Subject: [CP] Wanted: Native Pinguicula caerulea,lutea,and pumila Looking for these US native butterworts. Violet Butterwort Pinguicula caerulea Yellow Butterwort Pinguicula lutea Dwarf Butterwort Pinguicula pumila Wolf ################### From: restrepia at hotmail.com (Paul McCollom) Date: Wed Jun 1 19:00:56 2005 Subject: [CP] Highpressure humidity control Does anyone out there have experience with using pressure-boosted misting nozzles for humidity control? I've been using a "Hydrofogger" in my small greenhouse for several years. It maintains the humidity, but leaves collect a lot of residual water and it leaves behind some calcium deposits. Thank you, Paul ################### From: lulibybb at aol.com (lulibybb@aol.com) Date: Wed Jun 1 20:02:49 2005 Subject: [CP] RE:S.alata with pink blush blooms I love the discussions of Sarracenia in the field. These plants live in a very dynamic and hostile environment. Consequently, they are always changing in appearance. Further, these plants respond to their environment in ways different from one another. Likely, as a result of differences in microclimate and genetics. It's difficult to understand what these plants do, based upon a single visit to a site at one point in time. We are left with questions and speculation. Ideally, visiting a site during different times of the year and during different years would eliminate most speculation. Further, other bogs in the area would also be worth visiting, as it's been mentioned that today's bogs are merely fragments of historically larger bogs. I've witnessed both situations with pink flowers; anthocyanin production as the flower ages and remnants of a hybrid origin. In parts of eastern Mississippi there are bogs whereby the introgression with leuco is very obvious in pitcher/flower form and color. In more western MS sites, I have only witnessed alata/psitt F1 crosses. These are rare but, well documented. I haven't found any further alata/psitt introgrades but, I look every chance I get. In my experience, yellow flowers can produce slight pink pigmentation as they age. I've witnessed it in flava flowers, in addition to alata. Does this event indicate hybrid ancestory? Maybe! It's certainly difficult to describe what is considered normal or typical for these plants. Most certainly impossible from a couple of images. ################### From: h7n at talk21.com (Nigel Hurneyman) Date: Thu Jun 2 01:36:47 2005 Subject: [CP] Drosera sp 'Durranillin' At least a couple of years ago, I was fortunate to receive a batch of the pygmy sundew gemmae distributed by Phill Mann (thanks Phill) as Drosera sp 'Durranillin'. They haven't done very well for me - in fact a colony grown in my top-of-the-range conditions usually reserved for treasures like D. citrina, D. sewelliae and D. platystigma snuffed it this winter, leaving me a single colony growing in rather shady frost-prone conditions. This colony survived the winter and to my surprise, one of the plants has thrown out a flower bud. The flower isn't open yet but it's going to be big and it's going to be orange. I'll try to take piccies of it when it's open, but my camera has a dead battery and replacements are not readily available. Has anyone put a name to this species yet? NigelH ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ################### From: Johnatthebeach at cox.net (John Phillip) Date: Thu Jun 2 05:48:43 2005 Subject: [CP] Update on NECPS events Hello everyone, Just a few updates on Future events for the New England Carnivorous Plant Society. This weekend, Saturday June 4 we will be selling and displaying plants for the RI Wild Plant Society. Details can be found at: http://riwps.org/programs/plantSales.htm Don't even THINK of missing the NECPS Annual field trip to Black Jungle Supply in Greenfield Ma on Saturday, 11 June 2005!! Like last years event, there will be a bog walk {optional this year} a fabulous cookout, great discounts on Carnivorous Plants and NECPS members can run around barefoot thru the Growers greenhouses, to see how they grow the plants and pick out the plants they want. The cookout, discounts and greenhouse trip are all for NECPS members only, but you can join at the meeting if you are not already a member! If you plan to attend, PLEASE RSVP ! Details of the event can be found at: http://www.blackjungle.com/necps1.htm Black Jungle is a also a great place to check out if you are into Tree frogs and Vivariums, check their general website at: http://www.blackjungle.com Start planning now for the 3rd annual NECPS Fall Carnivorous Plant Show, this year a 2 day event scheduled for 8~9 October 2005 in Providence RI. Last year over 350 plants were displayed, and this year we expect even more plants. If you are interested in showing plants (members only) or attending as a vendor with a booth, please contact the NECPS thru the website, or email me for information at: johnatthebeach@cox.net For more information about the NECPS, check out the website: http://necps.org/ And lastly, NECPS T shirts will FINALLY be available in the next 2 weeks to non society members who would like them. Thanks to everyone who has helped make this such a great society. Good growing, and Enjoy the world John Phillip, Jr NECPS Narragansett RI USA 401~741~7825 Cell ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Thu Jun 2 11:01:25 2005 Subject: [CP] Off Topic - but re CP Meet 2006 & Avis Preferred Supplier Dear Paul, Wow! This sounds just like Cingular Wireless's business practices! I hope you don't have to go through something like that again. I also suggest no one sign up with Cingular for all the reasons you mention about Avis. I am not concerned about how they feel as I have over paid them plenty enough as is! Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of Temple, Paul Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 10:24 AM To: 'Cp@omnisterra.com' Using a telephone booking service with an Avis Agent (to overcome the 7 week duration problem) they confirmed a price with Avis for a 7 week hire that included all related fees (pick-up, insurance, etc.). While sitting in the shop I queried the price (Thomas cook praised me for my honesty), I asked explicitly if the price being quoted to me was too low, and the Thomas Cook agent relayed my query to ask the Avis agent to confirm that the price was not too low. The Avis agent reconfirmed the same price, so, I accepted it. Thomas Cook confirmed the booking with Avis and I imm! ediately paid in full, thus constituting a legally binding contract. Several days later I received a letter saying that Avis had withdrawn the booking as the price was too low. Under UK law, once a booking has been accepted or a payment accepted (even in part payment of a firm offer), this forms a binding contract on all parties. In my opinion (and that of others), Avis illegally attempted to unilaterally cancel or renege on their contract with me. I visited Thomas Cook and to give the local shop and manager credit, they backed me totally. They phoned Avis (it's worth noting that in the ensuing arguments, when asked what the correct price was should have been a senior Avis Manager quoted two different prices for a 7 week hire and both were also different to what I was originally quoted or eventually had to pay!!!). After several calls over several days, an Avis manager finally agreed that they should and would honour the original contract. At this time, it is my firm opinion that they reconfirmed that the price I originally agreed to and! paid was accepted and covered a 7 week hire inclusive of all other related fees (insurance, etc.). All this was conveyed to me via the Thomas Cook representative during a telephone call that I actually heard. All was also witnessed by another senior Thomas Cook representative who participated in or listened in to all discussions with Avis. Before the final call with the Avis Manager ended, I asked Thomas Cook to confirm with him that no more payments would be required for any reason either while I was still in the UK or once I was in the Dominican Republic. The Avis Manager confirmed this first to me personally and then, at my request, to Thomas Cook (again witnessed by a second Thomas Cook representative and myself) that "no more payments would be required from me for any reason". Also before the call ended, I asked for confirmation that the Avis Manager would ensure that the Avis Rental Office in Santo Domingo Airport would be fully informed of the terms of my car r! ental contract such that they would not attempt to charge me extra. A gain, it is my firm opinion that the Avis Manager agreed to do this in a statement heard/witnessed by the two Thomas Cook representatives and me (both witnesses have confirmed to me that they heard what thought I heard). So now I went to the Dominican Republic and, sure enough, a car was waiting for me. I used it for 7 weeks and then returned it to the Avis office at the Santo Domingo airport, on time. There, the local Avis Office demanded a further payment of approximately $200/?100 from me because their records showed that I had not paid the full rental charge!!! I had a straight choice - pay up or miss my flight and risk being faced with the Police (as was in my opinion made clear). I paid up, in my opinion this was nothing short of blackmail, but wrote on the documents (that recorded my payment) that I was paying while under unfair threat and that I disagreed with the demand for such payment. A witness was present to observe all this. ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Thu Jun 2 12:54:02 2005 Subject: [CP] Pink-blush Sarracenia alata in Mississippi Hey Folks, This speculation on the source of the red pigmentation on the S. alata is quite entertaining. Just for the record, in case any flames break out, I want to reiterate my stance on these plants.... Introgressed hybrids? Leucophylla in the mix? Psittacina in the mix? Pigmentation patterns that only emerge as the petals age (but before they crumple)? Novel mutations? I DON'T KNOW!!!!!! (Fans of "Peewee Herman's Big Adventure" will be able to imagine exactly how I want those three words to be yelled). Happy speculations! Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. FAQ--Author http://www.sarracenia.com/faq.html Galleria Carnivora--Curator http://www.sarracenia.com/galleria/galleria.html ################### From: Voodoodancer at gmail.com (Mark Todd) Date: Thu Jun 2 13:59:58 2005 Subject: [CP] Please help me update my address book Hi I'm updating my address book. Please click on the link below and enter your contact info for me: http://www.ringo.com/i.html?i=110190121x165515&homeEmail=Cp%40omnisterra.com I'm using a new, free service where I put in my contact info for you, you put in your contact info for me, and everyone stays up to date automatically. It's surprisingly easy and useful. Thanks for your help. Mark Todd No more invites from Mark Todd: http://www.ringo.com/friends/invite/block.html?memberId=110190121&email=Cp%40omnisterra.com ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Thu Jun 2 17:58:31 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Fernando, S. alata, Drosera The pygmy Drosera species might be leucoblast. It is the only orange one I know of. I bet after 175 years it would be hard to tell whether they were hyrbids or not (unless you know the gene sequence that colors flowers) and also there would be so many varieations between plants it would be hard to do. Then you would also have to find a genetically pure leuco which might be quite a task if you were to look for wild plants for this gene sequencing experiment. Fernando: Those are interesting observations on the Heliamphora and I appreciate your help tremendously. Yes D. capillaris 'long arm' could be considered the possible hybrid but the possible hybrid takes so many forms it is hard to distinguish. The confirmed hyrbids Ivan sent me look like D. intermedia but are sterile. Where as some wild plants look like crosses and some like D. capillaris. Another difficulty in the wild is the hybrid D. capillaris x. brevifolia confuses it. Normally I cannot find D. intermedia growing by the 'long arm' so it woul dnot supprise me if some of these plants are fertile. OF course DNA sequencing will need to be done before anything can be said concretely. Tre Bond ################### From: meadow at bealenet.com (meadow@bealenet.com) Date: Thu Jun 2 18:23:38 2005 Subject: [CP] blush S. alata and areoles Hi Mike: Our blush-colored S. alata flowers from western Louisiana are not produced when the petals are withering. The color is produced late in anthesis, exactly as pictured in Barry's photograph. In fact you can tell that Barry's photo was taken late in anthesis since the sepals are raised, a characteristic of this state of maturity. Also note that the hybrids you mention at the Watson preserve have pink, not blush petals. Michael Pagoulatus' web site has good illustrations of these hybrids. We have several populations in Beauregard and Natchitoches Parrish, LA where we see blush-colored S. alata blooms late in anthesis. There are no other Sarracenia species at these sites and no reason to attribute this trait to hybridization in that area. Barry's blush-colored S. alata flower is very similar to this. The difference between pink and blush is especially siginificant when differentiating between hybrids and this novel morph. Since Barry's site had no other Sarracenia species in the wetland, and the flower features match our mutant, I do not think this flower variant is a result of hybridization. While it's possible that settlers brought S. leucophylla to western LA and TX there is absolutely no evidence for this and no reason for them to do this. What is more likely is that we are seeing separate evolution of areoles and blush-colored blooms in some western LA and TX S. alata. Sincerely, Phil Sheridan Director Meadowview Biological Research Station http://www.bealenet.com ################### From: jim_miller at mindspring.com (Jim Miller) Date: Thu Jun 2 18:54:06 2005 Subject: [CP] "Pink-blush" S. alata and more bad news Greetings all, First off, I want to apologize for writing this so late, but I have been working three jobs lately, so my free time is severely limited. Brooks Garcia and I were in Mississippi on April 8th at the height of Sarracenia alata flowering, and I can tell you that of the many thousands of plants we saw (the largest colony of any Sarracenia I have seen in decades in the wild), maybe 10% had anything from a light pink blush to a definite pinkish orange coloration. Fortunately, I was shooting video for the next two (or three) DVDs on Gulf Coast CP. Some of the flowers were just opening and they had the pinkish or reddish coloration, so it's not any factor involved with aging. We looked for quite some time and all we saw were alata specimens. I half expected that there might be either some S. purpurea to be found, or possibly a leucophylla, but we didn't see anything of the sort. My guess is that alata flowers can vary just as much as S. purpurea flowers. Stewart McPherson and I spent a day out in the Apalachicola Forest and we saw pretty much every shade of flower color possible, from reddish through lavender to a nearly cream color. Often plants right next to each other had flowers that were quite different from each other. Again, I have this on video. Now I might suspect some leuco introgression in the alata site we visited. If you were to look at a map of habitats in that area, I'd have to say that the location we were at was not that far away from sites with leucophylla, however the places where both plants are found have quite noticeable colors that mainly range from bright scarlet to a sort of salmon pink. We never saw any plants with exactly the kind of "blush" Barry described. But that whole issue pales when you hear what we found. In the large colonies of Sarracenia north of Mobile, every single S. leucophylla flower and leuco pitcher had been cut off. The culprits? It's not hard to figure out. The floral industry values the bright flowers and the attractive pitchers. With a little detective work, Brooks found some leuco flower stems that had been cleanly cut and a short time later, Stew and I found leuco pitchers that had been cut down to about an inch off the rhizome. Alata flowers and pitchers were left alone. I suppose the yellow flowers and mostly green pitchers were of little value. That was bad enough, but what was worse, the low areas along the sides of the road had been plowed into a muddy mess. Everywhere were deep ruts from the tires of heavy trucks. One of our favorite sites had almost every single S. psittacina crushed by the tire treads. Other victims included Drosera filiformis tracyii and Pinguicula lutea, along with at least one species of terrestrial Utricularia. This was the very first time either Brooks or I had seen anything like this. The story was the same every spot we stopped at. No leuco pitchers and no leuco flowers. But to put a happy face on it, we didn't see anywhere a single plant had been dug up. Has anyone else seen this? In my 30+ years of field trips, I have never seen anything like what we saw that weekend. Also, Brooks and I stopped at the "famous" State Line site (at the border between Alabama and Mississippi) and we saw a few dozen alata in flower, but nothing else. I had heard that the Nature Conservancy was managing this location, but though we walked all around, we saw only a handful of plants. Gone was the big low area on the east side that had so many wonderful S. purpurea as well as psittacina and the all-green Ping. planifolia. It's clear that there is no development going on there. So does anyone know what happened to this habitat? It was the very first location I explored in the early 1970s. In about 1977 or 78, there was a huge fire, but a few years later, the site was back with more plants than ever. Some good news: We did see plenty of S. alata all along Interstate 10 in areas that are certainly never going to be developed. The bad news: What happened to the little sleepy town of Pascagoula? I guess the introduction of gambling has turned it into a vast, sprawling landscape of strip malls and convenience stores. We stopped for gas at about 5 AM and were told "be careful out there." In no uncertain terms, we were being told that Pascagoula had taken a dark turn since the days when Bob Hanrahan and I used to make it a regular stop on our field trip "itinerary." Best regards, Jim ################### From: Jim at seahorses.com (Jim Forshey) Date: Thu Jun 2 19:21:01 2005 Subject: [CP] Organic Gardening June-July 2005 Organic Gardening June-July 2005 Page 6, has a ? page letter and picture on how the writer is using carnivorous plant to control house pests. Page 13, has a ?1/3 page column ?Plants Worth Having? ?Pitcher Plant (Sarraceria spp.)? Note; not worth buying the magazine for, but if you are at the library or book store, it is interesting to see. Jim Forshey Placerville, California ??'?.??..><((((?>.???'?.??.???'?.?><((((?>?.???'?.?. ,. .???'?..><((((?>?.???'?.?.???'?...?><((((?>?.???'?.?. , ################### From: pbunch at cox.net (Phil Bunch) Date: Thu Jun 2 20:05:23 2005 Subject: [CP] Organic Gardening June-July 2005 Speaking of uses for CPs. I managed to rid a terrarium of a bad infestation of fungus gnats with cape sundew. In some cases this can actually work. BTW the Sundew is still in the terrarium and doing quite well thank you. Phil -----Original Message----- Of Jim Forshey Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 7:21 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Organic Gardening June-July 2005 Page 6, has a ? page letter and picture on how the writer is using carnivorous plant to control house pests. Page 13, has a ?1/3 page column ?Plants Worth Having? ?Pitcher Plant (Sarraceria spp.)? Note; not worth buying the magazine for, but if you are at the library or book store, it is interesting to see. Jim Forshey Placerville, California ??'?.??..><((((?>.???'?.??.???'?.?><((((?>?.???'?.?. ,. .???'?..><((((?>?.???'?.?.???'?...?><((((?>?.???'?.?. , _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.5.1 - Release Date: 6/2/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.5.1 - Release Date: 6/2/2005 ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Thu Jun 2 23:18:38 2005 Subject: [CP] Pink-blush Sarracenia alata in Mississippi I can't help but find all this talk of hybrids and "pure" alatas very amusing. It strikes me that any definition of 'pure' stock is a completely artificial and arbitrary standard set by man. If history had been set back a hundred years, perhaps a wave of leucophylla hybridization would have left the majority of alata with reddish flowers by the time the species got described and that would be our definition of 'pure' alata. I think having a static definition of a species is ultimately a futile endeavour in a genus that hybridizes as easily as Sarracenia. Readily mixing and matching traits to ensure that it has available what is necessary to survive in any particular micro-ecosystem seems to be its path to evolutionary success. TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Thu Jun 2 23:38:41 2005 Subject: [CP] Organic Gardening June-July 2005/predatory nematodes i've found quite the opposite. my plants seem to attract by the droves: argentine ants, aphids, thrips, mealybug and scale, not to mention powdery mildew and botrytis. but speaking of biological controls, does anyone have any experience with predatory nematodes? if so, how effective are they and where can one find them in less than agricultural quantity for a reasonable price? Gary Kong "Phil Bunch" wrote: >Speaking of uses for CPs. I managed to rid a terrarium of a bad infestation >of fungus gnats with cape sundew. In some cases this can actually work. BTW >the Sundew is still in the terrarium and doing quite well thank you. > >Phil > >-----Original Message----- >From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On Behalf >Of Jim Forshey >Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 7:21 PM >To: Cp@omnisterra.com >Subject: [CP] Organic Gardening June-July 2005 > >Organic Gardening June-July 2005 > >Page 6, has a ? page letter and picture on how the writer is using >carnivorous plant to control house pests. > >Page 13, has a ?1/3 page column ?Plants Worth Having? ?Pitcher Plant >(Sarraceria spp.)? > >Note; not worth buying the magazine for, but if you are at the library or >book store, it is interesting to see. > > > >Jim Forshey > >Placerville, California > > > >??'?.??..><((((?>.???'?.??.???'?.?><((((?>?.???'?.?. ,. > >.???'?..><((((?>?.???'?.?.???'?...?><((((?>?.???'?.?. , > > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.5.1 - Release Date: 6/2/2005 > > >-- >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.5.1 - Release Date: 6/2/2005 > > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: kdubash at vsnl.com (K Dubash) Date: Fri Jun 3 04:59:18 2005 Subject: [CP] newbie questions Hi, I recently acquired a few cp's during my travels, and since this is the first time that I have acquired cp's I need a lot of guidence, and have a lot of questions. I hope you all will bear with some my tiresome queries. The plants I have bought are Drosera capensis, D Madagascaneses, D Alicia, Nepenthes Alata, and Dionea. I was assured by the seller that these will thrive in my kind of climate (tropical), and thus picked them up. The Droseras are in small 2-3" pots with live spagnum moss as the medium, the Dionea is in a small pot with peat moss as the medium, whereas the Nepenthese is in a tall 4-5" pot with what looks like peat moss as the medium. At the outset, I must tell you that peat moss is unavailable in this country, and live spagnum is very difficult to come by (dead spagnum is available). Please advise me on medium keeping this in mind. Questions... I can't seem to find instructions on light/sun/water needs in the icps site (only info on germination, and seedling care seems to be available there), so some information will be appreciated. Drosera: one of the plants is practically growing over the pot. Is it necessary to re pot? Since I don't have peat moss, or live spagnum, can I use dead moss instead? Nep: The pitchers seem to be drying up even when they are small. In fact there were two large ones when I bought it, but these too are drying up. What am I doing wrong, and how can i ensure new healthy pitchers? Can I use dead spagnum moss for re potting this too? I was told by the seller that these can use the same medium as orchids, and I use moss for orchid medium. (I was wanting to transfer this plant into a hanging basket, so that the pitchers can hang over the side) I was told to use distilled water if possible, which I am doing. I was also told never to use fertiliser in any form. Question....how do the plants get their nurourishment? Is it okay to feed these with things like tiny peices of meat? If so, how often? Any other information will be most welcome. Thanks in advance, O Wise Ones! Khushroo ################### From: philmann at geo.net.au (Phill Mann) Date: Fri Jun 3 08:10:49 2005 Subject: [CP] Drosera sp "Durranillin" Nigel Yes the species keys out to be an interesting form of D. barbigera being quite distinct from the normal plants at the type location. Robert Gibson is working on this and will hopefully have a publication soon. Hurry up and get the camera working as it is a superb flower of metallic orange with a deep burgundy/black centre. There are photos of this plant on www.cephalotus.net under D. barbigera "minor". Cheers Phill At least a couple of years ago, I was fortunate to receive a batch of the pygmy sundew gemmae distributed by Phill Mann (thanks Phill) as Drosera sp 'Durranillin'. They haven't done very well for me - in fact a colony grown in my top-of-the-range conditions usually reserved for treasures like D. citrina, D. sewelliae and D. platystigma snuffed it this winter, leaving me a single colony growing in rather shady frost-prone conditions. This colony survived the winter and to my surprise, one of the plants has thrown out a flower bud. The flower isn't open yet but it's going to be big and it's going to be orange. I'll try to take piccies of it when it's open, but my camera has a dead battery and replacements are not readily available. Has anyone put a name to this species yet? ################### From: smaietta at aabga.org (Maietta) Date: Fri Jun 3 12:03:39 2005 Subject: [CP] Thank you for contacting AABGA. I will be out of the office Thank you for contacting AABGA. I will be out of the office Friday, June 3rd. I will respond to all messages upon my return. Have a great day! Sarah Sarah Maietta Office Manager AABGA 100 West 10th Street, Suite 614 Wilmington, DE 19801 302-655-7100, ext. 11 302-655-8100 fax ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu) Date: Fri Jun 3 12:28:53 2005 Subject: [CP] Pink-blush Sarracenia alata in Mississippi Dear Hamir, I think your desciption of _Sarracenia_ genetics is fairly accurate. Also, we humans have a very limited understand of DNA and how it works. We understand some of the basics, but the larger picture is still way out of focus. In fact DNA scientists have recently realized that some, or maybe all, species have loops of repeating information and they had never noticed them as important due to the way the tools they have been using to analyse the DNA obscure the presence of these structures. How important are these 'loops', what do they do, exactly? They don't know, they used to think they were spot mutations, or superfluous. Now, they have realize they are quite numberous and common and so probably have an important function(s). Still, I think it shouldn't be that difficult to say which plants are species within _Sarracenia_ as it does appear that the hybrids are not as fit as their parent species. I think the hybrids do serve a purpose as that is why the species of _Sarracenia_ readily hybridize. If they didn't 'help' the parent species out any, I suspect the parent species would have developed more barriers to hybridization. Or maybe they just haven't had the time to do so yet... Dave Evans > I can't help but find all this talk of hybrids and "pure" alatas very > amusing. It strikes me that any definition of 'pure' stock is a > completely > artificial and arbitrary standard set by man. If history had been set > back a > hundred years, perhaps a wave of leucophylla hybridization would have left > the > majority of alata with reddish flowers by the time the species got > described and > that would be our definition of 'pure' alata. I think having a static > definition of a species is ultimately a futile endeavour in a genus that > hybridizes > as easily as Sarracenia. Readily mixing and matching traits to ensure > that it has available what is necessary to survive in any particular > micro-ecosystem seems to be its path to evolutionary success. > > TTFN > > > Hamir the Hermit ################### From: rhillier at swconnection.com (Rick Hillier) Date: Fri Jun 3 12:43:59 2005 Subject: [CP] Problems with D. filiformis from hibernacula Greetings, This is the second time I have had this happen. I grow D.filiformis in my bog garden where it seems to be very happy, doing its thing all summer and forming nice looking hibernacula at the end of the year. The following spring when the growing season begins, the hibernacula will open up and start growing, looking healthy, when suddenly, they rot and die. I have had similar experience growing them indoors doing the bag-in-the-fridge thing for dormancy. My bog garden is located in Southern Ontario about 60 miles west of Toronto (Kitchener to be exact). Each winter, I pile about 6" of pine needles on the bog and remove them when the snow melts away. This is the bog's third season with all species of Sarracenia except psittacina (which I will be adding this year) and they all come back stronger each year. But I'm absolutely stumped with regards to D. filiformis! Does anyone know why this may be happening? Of note, last year, the bog was fairly wet throughout the spring, while this year it was fairly dry - same results both times. >>> Rick <<< ################### From: voodoodancer at gmail.com (Mark) Date: Fri Jun 3 13:03:44 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: help me update my address book I just want to apologize for that post. When I did that I didn't realize that it would send it to all my contacts, including the post on the listserv. I'm sure many of you also got the same email. I'm really sorry about that. Mark -- Paypal is nothing but hightech common thieves. Check out their customer feedback http://www.planetfeedback.com/sharedLettersList/0,2941,101112-70-0-0-20-0-fb_date-desc,00.html Don't become another paypal victim ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Fri Jun 3 13:18:46 2005 Subject: [CP] Predatory nematodes Gary Kong asked if anyone had any experience with predatory nematodes. I have used nematodes on the potato patch before with great success, and I have used them again this year. The nematodes that I used were for controlling slugs. I think that Gary was asking more about the nematodes for vine weavil, but I don't have any experience with those. We, here in the UK, can buy nematodes in garden quantities. You must be able to fine a supplier in the US, I would have thought. Nematodes aren't cheap though, a single pack to treat 40 sq yards cost me something like 13 pounds. You could buy a pack from the UK, but they probably won't ship very well. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: samarak at gizmoworks.com (Steve Marak) Date: Fri Jun 3 13:23:21 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Advice/recommends/avoids on RO systems CPers, The time has come for me to quit buying gallons of distilled water and lugging them around. I've looked around and done reading on RO systems from time to time previously, and I'm doing that again now. But I'd also like to get advice from this group on what systems you really like or don't, what you'd avoid or do differently if you were buying now, etc. I'm looking at systems in the 25-50 gallon/day range, not that I need that much for CP but I'm also looking at building a larger greenhouse and would like to use better water for all of it. Thanks, Steve -- Steve Marak -- samarak@gizmoworks.com ################### From: marsintenn at hotmail.com (mars schultz) Date: Fri Jun 3 13:31:36 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Cp Digest, Vol 25, Issue 3 i'm a newbie too. i only got into cp's a few months ago. my best advice is to go to amazon.com and order the book "savage garden". i bought it there and even with the shipping, it still cost me less than the list price. also, it's just a great book. it covers so much of what you will need or want to know, and it's written so that newbie's can understand and not get bored either (i even laughed out loud while reading it.) other than that.... two websites that i've found interesting and helpful are www.pitcherplant.com (not pitcherplants.com.. that's a completely different site) has a variety of plants for sale and it also has care sheets that you can look at online for all of the plants they sell. www.dangerousplants.com has been a pretty cool site too. dead sphegnum moss is fine. peat is really little more than somewhat decomposed sphegnum moss. the really important thing to remember is that whether live or dead, you do not want to use other kinds of moss.green moss and the like are deadly to cp's. many cp's like a blend of peat and sand. the sand used should be horticultural sand or commercial play sand. if you have any kind of greenhouse, plant supply, farming supply, etc type place, go there and ask them about sphengnum, peat, sand, etc. the book i mentioned before is very helpful when it comes to what is and isn't good to plant the plants in. as for water, distilled water is great...so is plain old rain water (and rain water is free!!!). i have two five gallon buckets outside to collect rain water. i then pour the rain water through a coffee filter in a funnell and bottle it. this is a slow process, but it works. it's also helpful to have the extra water since the plants will use so much of it. keep your pots in a tray at least an inch deep or so and make sure the tray always has water in it. this might help with the pitcher plants, maybe. the book that i mentioned can give you more advice regarding water and fertilizer. but the plants will get most of their nutrients from the bugs that they eat. that's why they have to be carnivorous (that's also why i think they're so neat, besides their appearance). everyone pretty much agrees that you should not feed regular meat to your plant as it may start to rot before the plant can digest it. you can always go bug hunting and feed your catch to the plants. if you are keeping the plants outside, they will probly do fine on their own. my outdoor drosera are just covered in little bug corpses. i hope that all helps. like i said, i'm new to this too, but i've been learning so much on this list and from my book. if you keep posting to the list, i recommend telling people what country you are in. you might find a few other people in your country who could give you some really specific advice. -mars strawberry plains, Tennessee, USA "Every man and every woman is a star." -- AL. I. 3 Message: 10 To: Message-ID: <003a01c56833$a25f69f0$ef00460a@a1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Hi, I recently acquired a few cp's during my travels, and since this is the first time that I have acquired cp's I need a lot of guidence, and have a lot of questions. I hope you all will bear with some my tiresome queries. The plants I have bought are Drosera capensis, D Madagascaneses, D Alicia, Nepenthes Alata, and Dionea. I was assured by the seller that these will thrive in my kind of climate (tropical), and thus picked them up. The Droseras are in small 2-3" pots with live spagnum moss as the medium, the Dionea is in a small pot with peat moss as the medium, whereas the Nepenthese is in a tall 4-5" pot with what looks like peat moss as the medium. At the outset, I must tell you that peat moss is unavailable in this country, and live spagnum is very difficult to come by (dead spagnum is available). Please advise me on medium keeping this in mind. Questions... I can't seem to find instructions on light/sun/water needs in the icps site (only info on germination, and seedling care seems to be available there), so some information will be appreciated. Drosera: one of the plants is practically growing over the pot. Is it necessary to re pot? Since I don't have peat moss, or live spagnum, can I use dead moss instead? Nep: The pitchers seem to be drying up even when they are small. In fact there were two large ones when I bought it, but these too are drying up. What am I doing wrong, and how can i ensure new healthy pitchers? Can I use dead spagnum moss for re potting this too? I was told by the seller that these can use the same medium as orchids, and I use moss for orchid medium. (I was wanting to transfer this plant into a hanging basket, so that the pitchers can hang over the side) I was told to use distilled water if possible, which I am doing. I was also told never to use fertiliser in any form. Question....how do the plants get their nurourishment? Is it okay to feed these with things like tiny peices of meat? If so, how often? Any other information will be most welcome. Thanks in advance, O Wise Ones! Khushroo ################### From: barry_burch at excite.com (Barry Burch) Date: Fri Jun 3 17:56:16 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Pink-blush Sarracenia alata in Mississippi Hey Dave, In your post you state, "...as it does appear that the hybrids are not as fit as their species." I thought the concept of hybrid vigor(Heterosis) is accepted throughout the ranks of science. As far as delineating within the Sarracenia species and hybrids, I think the only way to be certain is to perform rRNA tests. In using the antiquated methods of Linnaean scheme of classifcation, it is impossible to discern one genotype from another. The reliance upon phenotypes in classification needs to be discarded. Further advances could be rendered in treating disease states using rRNA testing. Not to mention - solving the Sarracenia mysteries. Barry _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ################### From: mrg40 at student.canterbury.ac.nz (mrg40) Date: Fri Jun 3 17:57:58 2005 Subject: [CP] Cephalotus??? Hi :) Yes my cephalotus remains as a measly few leaves, no pitchers. I sprayed the fungus-looking stuff but that didn't seem to deter it, I am wondering if a second round might help? Also, I just found this on a cephalotus.net I think. " the Cephalotus reverts to a few leaves until the next fire." So..... along those lines..... would it be wise to torch my ceph? in the nicest possible way of course. Has anyone done this? My theory is that along with sterilising the topsoil and killing the fungus stuff, it should trigger the plant back into pitcher production??? any ideas?? Or should I just leave it, assuming its dormant (mid-winter here), and keep battling the fungi with sprays? By the way, the parts of the plant with the white fluffy fungi stuff on them still seem healthy, although there seems to be more fungi. Any hints, ideas and cries of "NOOOOOOOO!!!!! Don't torch the ceph!!!!" are most welcome :) Mikala. ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Fri Jun 3 18:10:48 2005 Subject: [CP] Cephalotus??? fungus means your humidity is much too high. grow it exactly as you would an african violet. it has a thick cuticle. --- mrg40 wrote: > Hi :) > Yes my cephalotus remains as a measly few leaves, no > pitchers. I sprayed the > fungus-looking stuff but that didn't seem to deter > it, I am wondering if a > second round might help? > Also, I just found this on a cephalotus.net I think. > " the Cephalotus reverts to a few leaves until the > next fire." > So..... along those lines..... would it be wise to > torch my ceph? in the > nicest possible way of course. Has anyone done this? > > My theory is that along with sterilising the topsoil > and killing the fungus > stuff, it should trigger the plant back into pitcher > production??? any ideas?? > Or should I just leave it, assuming its dormant > (mid-winter here), and keep > battling the fungi with sprays? > By the way, the parts of the plant with the white > fluffy fungi stuff on them > still seem healthy, although there seems to be more > fungi. > Any hints, ideas and cries of "NOOOOOOOO!!!!! Don't > torch the ceph!!!!" are > most welcome :) > Mikala. > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: mrg40 at student.canterbury.ac.nz (mrg40) Date: Fri Jun 3 18:15:30 2005 Subject: [CP] Cephalotus??? >===== Original Message From Carnivorous Plant Discussion group ===== >fungus means your humidity is much too high. >grow it exactly as you would an african violet. it has >a thick cuticle. > All very well, but there shouldn't be really any humidity where it is. Its on a table in the middle of my lounge. I put some water in the dish under it when it has been empty for a few days. It isn't in a terrarium and it doesn't have anything over it. Its in quite a tall pot for the size of the dish underneath. Sure, it may be a bit humid because its winter here and I do get window condensation. Should I cut back the watering even more? Mikala. ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Fri Jun 3 18:39:41 2005 Subject: [CP] Cephalotus??? ahhh window condensation certainly encourages mold. i had it growing like crazy in my old apartment in california during the winter when the condensation would build up on them. it got so bad we had to spray bleach on the walls every 3 months to kill off the blooms. --- mrg40 wrote: > >===== Original Message From Carnivorous Plant > Discussion group > ===== > >fungus means your humidity is much too high. > >grow it exactly as you would an african violet. it > has > >a thick cuticle. > > > All very well, but there shouldn't be really any > humidity where it is. Its on > a table in the middle of my lounge. I put some water > in the dish under it when > it has been empty for a few days. It isn't in a > terrarium and it doesn't have > anything over it. Its in quite a tall pot for the > size of the dish underneath. > Sure, it may be a bit humid because its winter here > and I do get window > condensation. Should I cut back the watering even > more? > Mikala. > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: mrg40 at student.canterbury.ac.nz (mrg40) Date: Fri Jun 3 19:48:00 2005 Subject: [CP] Cephalotus??? Thank goodness its not that bad in my lounge!! Um, condensation is a common thing here, it gets VERY cold outside, negative temps. occasionally it snows. I would have said the bathroom had a humidity problem (but the ferns do love it), I didn't expect that in the lounge though. I have some dry type plants doing well in there, like my Yucca. Oh well, less water for the ceph. I draw the line at keeping a dehumidifier running soley for one very small plant though! My flatmate wouldn't appreciate the power bill! Mikala >===== Original Message From Carnivorous Plant Discussion group ===== >ahhh window condensation certainly encourages mold. i >had it growing like crazy in my old apartment in >california during the winter when the condensation >would build up on them. it got so bad we had to spray >bleach on the walls every 3 months to kill off the >blooms. > >--- mrg40 wrote: > >> >===== Original Message From Carnivorous Plant >> Discussion group >> ===== >> >fungus means your humidity is much too high. >> >grow it exactly as you would an african violet. it >> has >> >a thick cuticle. >> > >> All very well, but there shouldn't be really any >> humidity where it is. Its on >> a table in the middle of my lounge. I put some water >> in the dish under it when >> it has been empty for a few days. It isn't in a >> terrarium and it doesn't have >> anything over it. Its in quite a tall pot for the >> size of the dish underneath. >> Sure, it may be a bit humid because its winter here >> and I do get window >> condensation. Should I cut back the watering even >> more? >> Mikala. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Cp mailing list >> Cp@omnisterra.com >> >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu) Date: Sat Jun 4 06:02:57 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Pink-blush Sarracenia alata in Mississippi Dear Barry, Yes, but we define the species. That is why _S. catesbaei_ is not a species, while _S. flava_ and _S. purpurea_ are. You could say that it appears that _S. flava_ and _S. purpurea_ are being derived from _S. catesbaei_, but no one has seen this occuring. What we have seen is_S. catesbaei_ in a state of near constant re-creation from the plants we identified as _S. flava_ and _S. purpurea_. Whatever plant fits into the description of _S. flava_ is probably or mostly _S. flava_. The species are constantly in flux and people seem to have this idea that the names are not, but the names are constantly being adjusted as new information comes to light, or becomes known. Hybrid vigor only helps hybrids become species if they are more fit than the other plants they are competing against. Just because an organism has hybrid vigor, that does not make it more fit to compete and reproduce. Three: if you don't already have some named species how would you define what DNA belongs to which species, I find this really confusing. If you undefine all species and just call them _Sarracenia_, then each individual plants and their clones could each be a species if your standards for defining the species was off. In fact any and all hybrids have the potential to become species, so how would testing their DNA explain which are species and which are hybrids? You have to say how they interact with the environment and the other plants they are competing with. I think the DNA will only show which are more or less related to each other. Dave Evans > Hey Dave, > > > > In your post you state, "...as it does appear that the hybrids are not as > fit as their species." > > > > I thought the concept of hybrid vigor(Heterosis) is accepted throughout > the ranks of science. > > > > As far as delineating within the Sarracenia species and hybrids, I think > the only way to be certain is to perform rRNA tests. > > > > In using the antiquated methods of Linnaean scheme of classifcation, it is > impossible to discern one genotype from another. > > The reliance upon phenotypes in classification needs to be discarded. > Further advances could be rendered in treating disease states using rRNA > testing. Not to mention - solving the Sarracenia mysteries. > > > > Barry ################### From: cplistserv at carnivorousplant.com (Joseph Clemens) Date: Sat Jun 4 08:01:09 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Predatory Nematodes Experience with parasitic nematodes: I live on an acre here in the desert southwest USA. Most of the acre is planted with about 30 species and varieties of bamboo. Many of them have been adversely affected by beetle grubs each season. Last fall I obtained parasitic nematodes and innoculated the ground around the bamboo with the nematodes. It seems by the growth I observed this spring that the nematodes have had a positive effect on the growth of the bamboo and have reduced the damage the beetle grubs had been doing to the bamboo root systems. Joseph Clemens Tucson, Arizona USA ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sat Jun 4 12:15:09 2005 Subject: [CP] Darlingtonia in the Wild Hey Everyone, An abrupt change in plans this morning as the airline dropped the flight to France. So I negotiated and got a change to San Francisco. I do remember it beig a most wonderful City last time I was there. I will be visiting Peter's shop along with some Botanical Gardens, etc. Anyway I was lookig into where I could see Darlingtonia in the Wild. A tour one day from June 14 to 22 would be fine (not including either the 14th or 22nd). Or if anyone has any recommended State parks to go to I would love to know. I will only be traveling outside S.F. for a few hours (up to 5) and I only have one day to do this. Darlingtonia State Park in Oregon (13 hours away according to Mapquest) is quite a bit out of the way and would nver get reached. Although I probibly will travel an hour or two into Oregon (an not by that aweful coast road that has you between the cliff and the other cliff going in the other direction). Any suggestions of where to look would be helpful. Tre Bond ################### From: RL7836 at earthlink.net (Ron Lane) Date: Sat Jun 4 18:22:46 2005 Subject: [CP] Problems with D. filiformis from hibernacula Hi Rick, I'm in west-central NJ in zone 6a (min temps -5 to -10*F). When I had my bog and tried to overwinter VFTs in it, they either died during the winter or sprouted new growth in the spring and died shortly thereafter (w/in a month). I also had similar experiences trying to overwinter them in our unheated garage (not sure about minimum temps in there but pots freeze solid for a month or 2). My Sarrs thrive in both places. I've now taken to overwintering my VFTs in a cool room in the basement under lights (which gets down to mid 40's) and they've been thriving for something more than 6 yrs. D. filiformis thrived outside in my bog over winter (they should, we're just north of the pine barrens) but given how much further north you are, you may be having the same issues with the filiformis that I had with the VFTs. All the best, Ron Lane To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Greetings, This is the second time I have had this happen. I grow D.filiformis in my bog garden where it seems to be very happy, doing its thing all summer and forming nice looking hibernacula at the end of the year. The following spring when the growing season begins, the hibernacula will open up and start growing, looking healthy, when suddenly, they rot and die. I have had similar experience growing them indoors doing the bag-in-the-fridge thing for dormancy. My bog garden is located in Southern Ontario about 60 miles west of Toronto (Kitchener to be exact). Each winter, I pile about 6" of pine needles on the bog and remove them when the snow melts away. This is the bog's third season with all species of Sarracenia except psittacina (which I will be adding this year) and they all come back stronger each year. But I'm absolutely stumped with regards to D. filiformis! Does anyone know why this may be happening? Of note, last year, the bog was fairly wet throughout the spring, while this year it was fairly dry - same results both times. >>>>>> Rick <<< >>> >>> ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Sat Jun 4 18:23:58 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Problems with D. filiformis from hibernacula I had some die,and some live. Think the reason they clone themselves to make new plants during the summer is that the older plant will die off. Its good to have more than one plant. I find this happens with D. intermedia too. This is one of the reasons I grow more then few, incase I lose some I still have some left for future seasons. I always have enough in each pot. 4 of Round-leaved,Thread-leaved,and Spoon-leaved. 9 of Dwarf and Pink Sundews,whice I will be starting new ones from seeds too for back up. Wolf ################### From: Jim at seahorses.com (Jim Forshey) Date: Sat Jun 4 20:59:04 2005 Subject: [CP] Darlingtonia in the Wild You might want to visit Butterfly Valley (In California, near Quincy) Jim Forshey Placerville, California ??'?.??..><((((?>.???'?.??.???'?.?><((((?>?.???'?.?. ,. ???'?..>><((((?>?.???'?.?.???'?...?><((((?>?.???'?.?. ,. -----Original Message----- Of Tre Bond Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 12:15 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Hey Everyone, An abrupt change in plans this morning as the airline dropped the flight to France. So I negotiated and got a change to San Francisco. I do remember it beig a most wonderful City last time I was there. I will be visiting Peter's shop along with some Botanical Gardens, etc. Anyway I was lookig into where I could see Darlingtonia in the Wild. A tour one day from June 14 to 22 would be fine (not including either the 14th or 22nd). Or if anyone has any recommended State parks to go to I would love to know. I will only be traveling outside S.F. for a few hours (up to 5) and I only have one day to do this. Darlingtonia State Park in Oregon (13 hours away according to Mapquest) is quite a bit out of the way and would nver get reached. Although I probibly will travel an hour or two into Oregon (an not by that aweful coast road that has you between the cliff and the other cliff going in the other direction). Any suggestions of where to look would be helpful. Tre Bond __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: lulibybb at aol.com (lulibybb@aol.com) Date: Sat Jun 4 23:11:30 2005 Subject: [CP] SX'Ritchie Bell' Earlier today I had the opportunity to attend a book signing and meeting honoring the UNC botanist, Ritchie Bell. It was a very nice gathering with Dr.Mellichamp giving a slide show of Sarracenia in the SE. I enjoyed seeing photos of Sarracenia in the field from the '70s. I had always heard of the draining of the Green Swamp about 25 years ago that changed the habitat forever. To actually see a photo of thousands of flavas on the verge of destruction, as a crane changed the landscape, was an eye-opener. The slideshow continued with the introduction of a new cultivar by Rob Gardner and Dr.Mellichamp, called SX'Ritchie Bell.' Unlike most of the their hybrids this plant is a tall growing Sarracenia with a wide, red lid. It's leuco origin is only obvious in the bright wavy lid. As I've been an enthusiast of Gardner's and Mellichamp's hybrids for years, I quickly noticed the plant is an old hybrid of theirs, renamed. Those of you who got SX'Blackened Redfish' from me about a year ago, can change your labels. This plant now honors another one of the great Sarracenia pioneers. Rob Gardner and Dr.Mellichamp did not mention the plant being tissue cultured. In fact in personal conversation, Rob Gardner expressed some frustration with the whole tissue culture process. Personally, I've enjoyed growing the plant, and would like to see it more readily available in Dr.Bell's name. Unfortunately, I don't have much of the plant but, will make divisions of my specimens. I may not have more than a couple of divisions available, to those interested. ################### From: nickplummer at nc.rr.com (Nicholas Plummer) Date: Sun Jun 5 12:50:44 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: S x Ritchie Bell I attended the same talk as Stefan and met Rob Gardner for the first time afterwards. If I remember correctly, he told me that S. 'Ritchie Bell' is in t.c. at Longwood Gardens, but that it would not be available in the immediate futre. The old photos of Sarracenia in the Green Swamp were both amazing and depressing. Nick -- Nicholas Plummer nickplummer@nc.rr.com ################### From: goffinses at yahoo.com (L.) Date: Sun Jun 5 19:11:56 2005 Subject: [CP] thank you; nepenthes cuttings how-to and/or sick hamata Hello all, I have poor etiquette here because I am asking another question although I have neglected making a full response in regards to my past one. (Had surgery the next day, my grandmother passed away, etc. etc.) Thank you everyone, especially Mike Hunt who wrote so much useful information, who wrote regarding pesticides. I will write more later, but long story short, the Ortho pesticide seemed to work. I repeated it once and am keeping an eye on things. But! Tonight I checked my plants and realized that my beloved (and EXPENSIVE) N. hamata is doing poorly. Maybe because it's getting warmer and I haven't let it cool off enough at night. (We are ~1200 feet up so it's not too hot at night but the tank is hotter at the end of the day, if that makes any sense.) It's only got three or four (fairly small leaves) that are still green, and even those are turning kind of brownish. So I have two questions. 1) Any suggestions on N. hamata first aid? I have a cool mist humidifier and am thinking about placing the hamata and the humidifier in a tank together overnight. (The hamata is already in a tank but doesn't get cool mist at night.) Anything else I can do? I know from bitter experience that once a Nep starts to go downhill, it gathers momentum quickly so to speak. 2) If I need to take leaf cuttings, any suggestions? Am I right that this can be done? I cannot take a stem cutting as D'Amato recommends. The plant is small enough that I can't remove more than a leaf without killing it. How does one take and root a leaf cutting? Many thanks. I promise a full response to this and my past question ASAP! Cheers, Laurel W. Vermont __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Mon Jun 6 06:08:46 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Darlingtona Hey Everyone, Thanks for all the help with Darlingtonia sites. I have about 8 but will probibly visit only 2-3. I am certainly going to Darlingtonia State Park in Oregon as we will be travelling North to Seattle and back to San Francisco. I'll also get to visit with some CPers out there. And fortunatly my Digital camera just came back from the shop. But I'll also bring a borrowed film one which will provide much better shots of Darlingtionia. When I get back I'll try to write up a trip report on my web page. Tre ################### From: dstewart at protocolusa.com (Davin Stewart) Date: Mon Jun 6 07:22:54 2005 Subject: [CP] newbie questions Hey Kushroo, Before getting to your questions, have you checked out the Carnivorous Plant FAQ ( http://www.sarracenia.com/faq.html ) ? That site should have basic growing information for the plant families you've listed below. Davin Stewart Senior Developer T 919.932.4668 F 419.781.2354 Protocol Integrated Direct Marketing PROTOCOL INTEGRATED DIRECT MARKETING PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION - If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose or take any action based on this message or any information herein and should delete the message immediately. Dead spagnum moss is usually a fine substitute for peat moss and most cp's can be found growing in live or dead sphagnum, as well as peat moss, in the wild. The exception to this might be Venus Flytraps (Dionaea muscipula) which, in my experience, REALLY seem to prefer a mix of 1:1 peat and sand. If you feel that dead sphagnum isn't working out well, you could try "milled" sphagnum which is just dead sphagnum moss ground up some. You can make your own by grating dead sphagnum on a fine cheese grater, rubbing it across a window screen, etc. Please note that when working with sphagnum moss you should consider wearing gloves and protective clothes. There is a fungal disease that you can catch from working with sphagnum, sporotrychosis (sp?). While rare, it's a particularly nasty disease and can be tricky to diagnose since it's not seen much. That said, I've never had any problems with it. Nepenthes pitches drying up is a general sign of stress on the plant, usually due to a lack of humidity or high heat. Neps enjoy high humidity conditions. At a guess, I'd say 60% relative humidity or higher. The growing medium sounds fine. I'd take a look at your humidity conditions. If those are ok, try to determine if your heat is getting above 85 or so ... that might cause some problems. Using distilled water is the generally accepted practice. You might be able to use your tap water as well, though. If your water doesn't contain much calcium and is relatively low in dissolved solids and salt then you might be able to get by with it. The key is to make sure that your water doesn't leave calcium or salt deposits behind when you water, which can change the pH of your soil and affect the growth of your plants. Strangely, the vast majority of carnivorous plants come from very acidic soils. Sphagnum moss, as well as peat, is a very acidic medium. I think the acidic medium interferes with the plants ability to take up nutrients from the soil, so they adapted alternative methods (carnivory) of obtaining nutrients ... primarily nitrogen. I'd avoid fertilizers and not worry about the plants nutrient level unless you see obvious signs of deficiencies in the plants. Sphagnum moss and it's derivatives do contain some nutrients, usually enough to keep your plants healthy for years. Remember, your plants are adapted to poor nutrient soils. I have a venus flytrap on my desk that's been growing like gangbusters for several years now and it's never been fertilized or caught a single bug. As for feeding your plants, you can feed your pitcher plants dead bugs on occasion but stick to live bugs for your flytrap and sundews. Ghoulish though it may seems, those plants actually count on the bug to struggle and move around after it's caught. If it doesn't do that then the trap may not function properly, especially for the venus flytrap. This can sometimes cause the trap to rot. Hope I didn't dampen your enthusiasm too much. These are definately fun plants to grow and I can always count on them to start a conversation at my desk. Just my $0.02, Davin > Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 17:28:59 +0530 > From: "K Dubash" > Subject:[CP] newbie questions > > Hi, > > I recently acquired a few cp's during my travels, and since this is the > first time that I have acquired cp's I need a lot of guidence, and have a > lot of questions. I hope you all will bear with some my tiresome queries. > > > At the outset, I must tell you that peat moss is unavailable in this > country, and live spagnum is very difficult to come by (dead spagnum is > available). Please advise me on medium keeping this in mind. > > Questions... > > I can't seem to find instructions on light/sun/water needs in the icps site > (only info on germination, and seedling care seems to be available there), > so some information will be appreciated. > > Drosera: one of the plants is practically growing over the pot. Is it > necessary to re pot? Since I don't have peat moss, or live spagnum, can I > use dead moss instead? > > Nep: The pitchers seem to be drying up even when they are small. In fact > there were two large ones when I bought it, but these too are drying up. > What am I doing wrong, and how can i ensure new healthy pitchers? > Can I use dead spagnum moss for re potting this too? I was told by the > seller that these can use the same medium as orchids, and I use moss for > orchid medium. (I was wanting to transfer this plant into a hanging basket, > so that the pitchers can hang over the side) > > I was told to use distilled water if possible, which I am doing. I was also > told never to use fertiliser in any form. Question....how do the plants get > their nurourishment? Is it okay to feed these with things like tiny peices > of meat? If so, how often? > > Any other information will be most welcome. > > Thanks in advance, O Wise Ones! > > Khushroo ################### From: bill at lifehouseproductions.com (Bill Matthews) Date: Mon Jun 6 14:03:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Sick Hamata Hey Laurel - Here's a tip I learned when my wife Dena and I went to Kew last November. Carolyn, who works in the tropical propagation houses there met with us personally. Anyway, one of the things she mentioned was that if any of their Neps start looking "iffy" they take them out and plant in pure live sphagnum. Last fall my N. burbidgea x edwardsiana (an $$ highlander) was in such a state..... After we got back from England I knocked it out of the pot & I was horrified when I saw the entire root mass was only the size of a penny. Acckk! Then while handling it.....the whole root mass slid right off the stem. NOOOOOOO.... So, I sliced the stem just above the rotted part, dipped in rooting hormone, wrapped in as much live LFS as I could muster up from the other plants, and put it in a pond basket and kept my fingers crossed. I also put it in a small tank ( for kids - insects ). Then I made sure to move it near the door where it would get cold at night, then back under lights by day. In the spring (and now) it goes outside at night and on a shelf under lights by day. End of story: it took a while, but it has made a full come back and is just stunning. Every leaf has a beautiful pitcher. I ordered a bunch more pond baskets, - but they are on backorder.... Dave Schloat (Schloaty on Terraforums) grows his N. hamata outdoors in the summer. He's in White Plains, NY. I hope this helps. Good luck with it. Bill Matthews aka 'WildBill' New England Carnivorous Plant Society LifeHouse Productions | http://www.lifehouseproductions.com Phone/Fax: 203.265.1007 ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Mon Jun 6 16:14:45 2005 Subject: [CP] major dilemma i was outside at dusk tonight looking over my plants when i noticed a mosquito had landed on my arm and had bit me, i grabbed it and quickly fed it to a nearby sundew (a drosera capillaris). my dilemma is, what happens if i do this too often and the sundew decides it doesnt like the mosquitos anymore and wants my blood? =) ################### From: kdubash at vsnl.com (K Dubash) Date: Mon Jun 6 16:34:29 2005 Subject: [CP] newbie questions Hi, Thanks you and others in helping me out with my questions. Khushroo -------------------------------- To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey Kushroo, Before getting to your questions, have you checked out the Carnivorous Plant FAQ ( http://www.sarracenia.com/faq.html ) ? That site should have basic growing information for the plant families you've listed below. Davin Stewart ################### From: jcreef at bellsouth.net (Juan-Carlos) Date: Mon Jun 6 16:36:32 2005 Subject: [CP] major dilemma Audry 3 ;) ----- Original Message ----- To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 7:14 PM >i was outside at dusk tonight looking over my plants > when i noticed a mosquito had landed on my arm and had > bit me, i grabbed it and quickly fed it to a nearby > sundew (a drosera capillaris). > > my dilemma is, what happens if i do this too often and > the sundew decides it doesnt like the mosquitos > anymore and wants my blood? > > =) > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: writerguy67 at aol.com (writerguy67@aol.com) Date: Tue Jun 7 06:04:23 2005 Subject: [CP] major dilemma I've heard of "giant" forms of capillaris ... but you're probably safe. My Drosophyllum does make me a bit nervous, however ..... to be honest. -----Original Message----- To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Sent: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:14:34 -0700 (PDT) i was outside at dusk tonight looking over my plants when i noticed a mosquito had landed on my arm and had bit me, i grabbed it and quickly fed it to a nearby sundew (a drosera capillaris). my dilemma is, what happens if i do this too often and the sundew decides it doesnt like the mosquitos anymore and wants my blood? =) ################### From: stovehouse at earthlink.net (Michael Hunt) Date: Tue Jun 7 12:16:23 2005 Subject: [CP] major dilemma i was outside at dusk tonight looking over my plants when i noticed a mosquito had landed on my arm and had bit me, i grabbed it and quickly fed it to a nearby sundew (a drosera capillaris). my dilemma is, what happens if i do this too often and the sundew decides it doesnt like the mosquitos anymore and wants my blood? =) Then it will grow to a great size and will try to squeeze the living day lights out of you and spit you out like a scud missle. So you better call Van Helsing now `cause he knows how to handle these things better than any of us. Mike ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Tue Jun 7 12:41:04 2005 Subject: [CP] Maybe soon,Dwarf Sundew Drosera brevifolia for trade? I just sprinkled freash Drosera brevifolia seeds from the seed pods of the mother plants onto the media to start new plants. I should have some seedlings for trade in 3-4 weeks? Wolf ################### From: w.a.j.noordeloos at wanadoo.nl (wouter) Date: Tue Jun 7 12:46:32 2005 Subject: [CP] Capensis seeds wanted Hi Cp'ers, I've got a very stuppid question; I'm looking for large amounts of Drosera capensis seeds. Yes, I know what I'm asking!! I'm not sick! I'm really aware what I'm asking! Let me explain why..... At the second week of august we orginise an exhibition of Cp's at the botanical garden of Leiden, Holland. My plan is to give away small packets of seeds of Drosera capensis to all the visitors for free. 2 years ago we started to give small packets of seeds for free to visitors during plant-sales + a sheet of paper with some growing instructions. Many visitors answer the gift with a smile. Since then we got many pleasent replies from people who tell us the seeds were hatcht and they ask us what to do with the small plants. Just a few people subscribe as a new member of our society. But that's not our mainreason. It's just for fun that many people grow capensis. 3 years ago we also orginise a Cp-exhibition at the botanical garden of Leiden, Holland, combined with the Third European Exchange, and about 8800 people visit the exhibition during 9 days. So I need a lot of seedpackets if I want to offer 1 seedpacket to each visitor. Can anyone send me large amounts of Capensis seeds. I can offer you some seeds from our own seedbank. Take care, Wouter ################### From: mrg40 at student.canterbury.ac.nz (Mikala Graham) Date: Tue Jun 7 15:57:44 2005 Subject: [CP] Capensis seeds wanted Wouter, Thats a neat idea! and a great way to give people a positive start into the hobby! Unfortunately I have no capensis seeds to offer, just positive support :) Mikala. wouter wrote: > Hi Cp'ers, > > I've got a very stuppid question; I'm looking for large amounts of Drosera > capensis seeds. > > Yes, I know what I'm asking!! I'm not sick! I'm really aware what I'm asking! Let > me explain why..... > > At the second week of august we orginise an exhibition of Cp's at the botanical > garden of Leiden, Holland. My plan is to give away small packets of seeds of > Drosera capensis to all the visitors for free. > > 2 years ago we started to give small packets of seeds for free to visitors during > plant-sales + a sheet of paper with some growing instructions. Many visitors > answer > the gift with a smile. Since then we got many pleasent replies from people who > tell us > the seeds were hatcht and they ask us what to do with the small plants. > > Just a few people subscribe as a new member of our society. But that's not our > mainreason. It's just for fun that many people grow capensis. > > 3 years ago we also orginise a Cp-exhibition at the botanical garden of Leiden, > Holland, combined with the Third European Exchange, and about 8800 people visit > the > exhibition during 9 days. > > So I need a lot of seedpackets if I want to offer 1 seedpacket to each visitor. > > Can anyone send me large amounts of Capensis seeds. > > I can offer you some seeds from our own seedbank. > > Take care, > > Wouter > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: jk1492 at gmail.com (John Kawamoto) Date: Tue Jun 7 16:10:41 2005 Subject: [CP] newbie question I live in a climate similar to yours, and I have a couple of the plants that you have. My D. capensis is in full sun. Some are in pots in a water tray. Others are in a mini bog. D capensis will grow in sphagnum moss, but there are different kinds. Long fibered sphagnum is good for growing all types of CPs. I've read that there are other types of sphagnum moss that are deadly to CPs because they decompose quickly and turn to muck. I would suggest that you transplant a few of the Drosera that are overgrowing the pot into the sphagnum that you have in order to find out if it's the right kind. If your sphagnum doesn't work, you might be able to find coco peat or coco chips (made from coconut fibers) in India. You might have to experiment by mixing it with something like small rocks for aeration. You might be able to use the coco peat to grow certain kinds of Drosera. Coco chips can be used to grow Nepenthes, or at least certain varieties of Nepenthes. I just bought a Nepenthes growing in a medium of coco chips and lava rocks. If you use coco chips, be sure to soak them for a day or two to get them thoroughly wet and to change the water a few times to get any salt out of them (Sometimes they are processed in ocean water). N. alata grows well in 50 percent shade. It can grow in full sun, but the leaves might turn reddish and have black spots. I haven't had any luck with Dionea, but they say it grows in full sun. Those of us who live in tropical climates have to experiment a lot because most of the material available for growing CPs is for temperate climates or indoor environments. I would suggest trying to find out as much as you can about the natural habitats of the plants that you have, and then try as best as possible to duplicate those conditions with the materials that are available to you. Good luck. John Kawamoto ################### From: rolando at dbi.pt (Rolando Barradas) Date: Wed Jun 8 00:53:25 2005 Subject: [CP] Capensis seeds wanted Hi I might have a lot of Capensis Alba and Narrow to offer. They are still flowering but soon I'll collect them. When do you need them? Contact me off-list if you want Rolando Barradas rolando@dbi.pt -----Mensagem original----- De: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com]Em nome de wouter Enviada: ter?a-feira, 7 de Junho de 2005 20:46 Para: Cp@omnisterra.com Assunto: [CP] Capensis seeds wanted Hi Cp'ers, I've got a very stuppid question; I'm looking for large amounts of Drosera capensis seeds. Yes, I know what I'm asking!! I'm not sick! I'm really aware what I'm asking! Let me explain why..... At the second week of august we orginise an exhibition of Cp's at the botanical garden of Leiden, Holland. My plan is to give away small packets of seeds of Drosera capensis to all the visitors for free. 2 years ago we started to give small packets of seeds for free to visitors during plant-sales + a sheet of paper with some growing instructions. Many visitors answer the gift with a smile. Since then we got many pleasent replies from people who tell us the seeds were hatcht and they ask us what to do with the small plants. Just a few people subscribe as a new member of our society. But that's not our mainreason. It's just for fun that many people grow capensis. 3 years ago we also orginise a Cp-exhibition at the botanical garden of Leiden, Holland, combined with the Third European Exchange, and about 8800 people visit the exhibition during 9 days. So I need a lot of seedpackets if I want to offer 1 seedpacket to each visitor. Can anyone send me large amounts of Capensis seeds. I can offer you some seeds from our own seedbank. Take care, Wouter _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Wed Jun 8 16:19:54 2005 Subject: [CP] Predatory nematodes thanks to all those who answered. i found a source (http://store.yahoo.com/indoorsun/prednem.html), approx. 1 million for $14.95(US). "David Ahrens" wrote: > I think that Gary was asking more about the nematodes for >vine weavil, but I don't have any experience with those. i'm actually looking to control thrips, aphid and scale in the soil, and using insecticidal soap on the above-ground leaves of Nepenthes. i realize using them with Utricularia would be counter-productive, so am just using it in pots free of Utricularia. Gary Kong -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: paul.temple at eds.com (Temple, Paul) Date: Thu Jun 9 06:52:10 2005 Subject: [CP] Nepenthes discussion (group?) Hi. A question for those of you who grow Nepenthes. Which is the discussion group (and it's web address) that most "specialises" in Nepenthes (largely cultivation related info including equipment)? I need to start planning for a new garden, in the tropics but at altitude - hot days (80+F, 26+C), cold nights (approx 45F, 7C), and as this is beyond my UK-based experience it would make sense to talk to people who grow Neps in similar conditions to those that I'll have. ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Thu Jun 9 08:40:42 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: capensis seed, cinnimon for fungi Do you have a date you need to the Capensis seed by (besides early Aug.)? If not I will probibly be able to seed some 'alba' and 'wide leaf' by late July. The next topic. Do not use cinnimon to control fungi on Drosera. They don't like it. Tre ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Thu Jun 9 08:51:01 2005 Subject: [CP] D. meristocaulis update/ trans-Atlantic transport Hi Fernando, I'm back. Sorry for the late reply; computer trouble and my father's health problems. My D. meristocaulis are growing fabulously and look like they could start to flower any time now. About the sea water experiment: How did a pygmy sundew get to Brazil? It was Jan Schlauer who first suggested that D. burmannii/sessilifolia may have crossed the Atlantic from Africa to brazil via rafting through what is known as the Columbus Route Current. A number of other plants are believed to have been transported this way. I tested the theory by soaking seed capsules of D. anglica in sea water for 4 weeks. The seed germinated normally. I used D. anglica because this species may have been similarly transported to Hawaii from California as some other plants have. I'm confident D. burmannii could survive such transport as well. Your witness of D. capillaris and D. intermedia on a beach in Brazil makes it all the more credible Fernando. I can believe a pygmy sundew could have crossed the Atlantic to give rise to D. meristocaulis. What does everyone else think? Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California >>My D. meristocaulis seedlings seem to be growing well enough. The largest have 9 leaves and the stipules are visible. They look just like the photos of the smallest wild plants showed during your slide show presentation. I have transplanted the largest plants and had no trouble doing so. Most of mine are planted in long fiber sphagnum. I had one germinate more recently on podsol, which is all-natural silica sand soil. I'll let you know when the flowers begin to form:-) Ivan >Nearly 2 months have passed since this last post and I was curious to know how things are going with your D.meristocaulis seedlings... I'd also like to hear knews from others successes as well as failures! >What about that other seed experiment you were carrying out Ivan (salt water)? Tried anything new? >Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia ___________________________________________________________________ Get Juno Platinum for as low as $6.95/month! Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage. Visit http://www.juno.com/bestoffer to sign up today! ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Thu Jun 9 13:07:44 2005 Subject: [CP] Nepenthes discussion (group?) (Temple, Paul) Paul asked about whether there was a good discussion group on Neps because he is going to live in the tropics soon. You won't be able to grow any of those boring old Sarracenia any more Paul ! Andreas Wistuba used to have a specialised Nep forum but he closed it down because of the childish comments on it. Hmm, sounds like a discussion group that I used to know. You might like to email Rob Cantley directly and get some advice. Can't help otherwise. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Thu Jun 9 13:26:03 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: rafting, Sundew bugs Ivan I beleve that it is possible for seed to have rafted. I never thought about this before but it does make sense. Are there any native "sundew bugs" to North America? One of my D. filiformis ssp. tracyi had a spider like creature (that looked similar to a "sundew bug") crawing up and down it with the dew haveing no sticky effect. The bug seemed to be "eating" some of th small caught insects. I'm not sure how this bug arrived at my plants nor do I have any idea why I only have one. Tre ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Thu Jun 9 13:28:50 2005 Subject: [CP] Nepenthes discussion (group?) (Temple, Paul) Apparently David is unaware of the good discussion groups at http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=13 http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin/ib312/ikonboard.cgi?s=85fd0b7180f5131f783a7913428b8ceb;act=SF;f=7 http://forumpc.celeonet.fr/forum/forum13.php http://www.carnivoren.org/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.pl?board=nepenthes http://www.freeforumzone.com/viewdiscussioni.aspx?f=31012&idc=7 http://www.fumpan.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=Nep Just to mention a few of the most active. And, a Singapore CP forum, that has potential, but is not very active. http://www.greenculturesg.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=24&sid=d7698e7da386ae1aa09db6b2314028ab -Bob- David Ahrens wrote: > Paul asked about whether there was a good discussion group on Neps > because he is going to live in the tropics soon. > You won't be able to grow any of those boring old Sarracenia any more > Paul ! > Andreas Wistuba used to have a specialised Nep forum but he closed it > down because of the childish comments on it. Hmm, sounds like a > discussion group that I used to know. > You might like to email Rob Cantley directly and get some advice. > Can't help otherwise. > Regards > David Ahrens > London. ################### From: buddhabear at usadatanet.net (Dustin Truesdell) Date: Thu Jun 9 13:36:53 2005 Subject: [CP] Nepenthes discussion (group?) Hi Paul, I'm not familiar with any "Nepenthes forum". I just hang around at CPUK and Terraforums Nep forums. There wasa geocities site a long while ago that was all Nepenthes but it was never very active. If you find of a site let me know! ################### From: hpulley at rogers.com (Harry Pulley) Date: Thu Jun 9 14:12:23 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: rafting, Sundew bugs --- Tre Bond wrote: > Are there any native "sundew bugs" to North America? > One of my D. filiformis ssp. tracyi had a spider > like creature (that looked similar to a "sundew > bug") crawing up and down it with the dew haveing no > sticky effect. The bug seemed to be "eating" some > of th small caught insects. I'm not sure how this > bug arrived at my plants nor do I have any idea why > I only have one. Perhaps because of the ability to traverse their own webs, I find even the common house spider is fairly well able to escape most sundews except binata which seems to trap or confuse them as I often find them hanging upside-down from a leaf, not really even stuck to the 'dew' but just dead there like they didn't know where to go. Harry :-{} Harry C. Pulley, IV mailto:hpulley@rogers.com http://ca.geocities.com/hpulley4@rogers.com Guelph, Ontario, Canada ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Fri Jun 10 13:25:53 2005 Subject: [CP] Bog soil question Hey Everyone, In my travels through Sarr country I noticed that some bogs are typical (peaty), some are sphagnum, some are sandy, some are leaf mold. Let me explain: typical-has probiby what we would term as a mixture of sphagnum peat and sand it about the same ratios as we use but maybe a little more or a little less. Sphagnum are bogs that are completely (or almost totally) covered with live LFS. These bogs are rare. Leaf mold generally occurs from NE Fl to NC with pine forests being around the small boggy area which is generally comprised of sphagnum peat with large quantities of broken down pine needles (leaf mold). This is the dryest bog. Some live LFS may be present. Sandy: could some one tell me the soil mixture of this type? It is really gritty and happens more often in AL to the West and away from the ocean. It generally looks like a savannah except the soil is white, wet, and gritty with very little grass (mostly Sarrs of generaly several species but this is not always true). The grass is much shorter then in typical savanahs. Tre ################### From: DougWitkowski at netscape.net (DougWitkowski@netscape.net) Date: Fri Jun 10 13:50:12 2005 Subject: [CP] Bog soil question The western-most S. Alata bogs that I have visited, have a sugar sand base with relatively little peat in it. This is covered with a layer of live/dead sphagnum moss, perhaps 4-6 inches deep. Of course, the bottom of this layer is mostly decomposed sphagnum but there is suprisingly little mixing with the sand. The sand was very wet, as in, a slow flow through it. Doug Witkowski Dripping Springs, TX Tre Bond wrote: >Hey Everyone, >In my travels through Sarr country I noticed that some bogs are typical (peaty), some are sphagnum, some are sandy, some are leaf mold. ?Let me explain: >typical-has probiby what we would term as a mixture of sphagnum peat and sand it about the same ratios as we use but maybe a little more or a little less. >Sphagnum are bogs that are completely (or almost totally) covered with live LFS. ?These bogs are rare. >Leaf mold generally occurs from NE Fl to NC with pine forests being around the small boggy area which is generally comprised of sphagnum peat with large quantities of broken down pine needles (leaf mold). ?This is the dryest bog. ?Some live LFS may be present. >Sandy: could some one tell me the soil mixture of this type? ?It is really gritty and happens more often in AL to the West and away from the ocean. ?It generally looks like a savannah except the soil is white, wet, and gritty with very little grass (mostly Sarrs of generaly several species but this is not always true). ?The grass is much shorter then in typical savanahs. >Tre > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? ?Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu) Date: Fri Jun 10 14:58:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Bog soil question Dear Doug and Tre, This type of soil can be referred to being mineral soil, since it is nearly 100% non-organic. There are so few nutrients that even the grasses have some trouble growing robustly. I think fire helps maintain areas like this--Although some could be self-maintaining if the nutrient is low enough. Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of DougWitkowski@netscape.net Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 4:50 PM The western-most S. Alata bogs that I have visited, have a sugar sand base with relatively little peat in it. This is covered with a layer of live/dead sphagnum moss, perhaps 4-6 inches deep. Of course, the bottom of this layer is mostly decomposed sphagnum but there is suprisingly little mixing with the sand. The sand was very wet, as in, a slow flow through it. Doug Witkowski Dripping Springs, TX Tre Bond wrote: >Sandy: could some one tell me the soil mixture of this type? ?It is really gritty and happens more often in AL to the West and away from the ocean. ?It generally looks like a savannah except the soil is white, wet, and gritty with very little grass (mostly Sarrs of generaly several species but this is not always true). ?The grass is much shorter then in typical savanahs. >Tre ################### From: WildLifeGardener at sbcglobal.net (WildLife Gardener) Date: Fri Jun 10 21:04:48 2005 Subject: [CP] Help with a guide on dividing CPs for Jr High students please I would appreciate it if people would share decent quality photos that can be used to show kids growth points so that they know exactly where to divide a plant this coming fall. If anyone can share these (would be even better if circles or arrows were used pointing to the growth points) with me, I would be greatly appreciative. Simple tips on how to divide plants would be appreciated also. I would need permission to print off the photos and distribute them so please don't post a photo if you would feel uncomfortable having it distributed or copied or e-mailed or enlarged to be used on a tri-fold poster board. Kids would be using any photos e-mailed to me. Watermarks on photos are fine. They have Sarracenia, Drosera, VFT, and a few Utricularia. Any help with sharing of photos and comments would be greatly appreciated. Please use my e-mail address above. ################### From: owns6196 at comcast.net (owns6196@comcast.net) Date: Sat Jun 11 16:40:25 2005 Subject: [CP] my VFT Hey everyone I just watched my VFT make it's first wild kill not 5 minutes ago it was so cool that fly didn't know what hit it. Talk about Nature in action woo hoo! Sincerely David Owings Ferrets have a way of weaseling their way into your heart and once they do they never leave and I wouldn't have it any other way ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Sat Jun 11 18:07:54 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Help with a guide on dividing CPs for Jr High students I have to remove some of the dead parts off my S. flava var. maxima this fall,so if you like I can take some photos of where to cut to divide with my knife showing the places? I don't want to remove the dead parts now,because I messed with it enough transplanting it and cutting off the damage pitchers. Wolf ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Sun Jun 12 21:55:08 2005 Subject: [CP] VFT's wild kill David Owings mentioned:-"Hey everyone I just watched my VFT make it's first wild kill not 5 minutes ago it was so cool that fly didn't know what hit it." It's always exciting when you see this happen. You will find that it is quite rare to actually catch the trap in action, your eyes are normally on some other part of the collection. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Mon Jun 13 07:14:53 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Help with a guide on dividing CPs for Jr High students Wolf, I'd recommend waiting to cut off the dead pitchers until next spring (unless mold is a problem). The plants, even with the dead pitchers, seem to absorb a lot of nutrients from the dead insects over the winter, so removing them in the fall would mean taking away some of this energy. Chris > >I have to remove some of the dead parts off my S. flava var. maxima this >fall,so if you like I can take some photos of where to cut to divide with >my knife showing the places? I don't want to remove the dead parts >now,because I messed with it enough transplanting it and cutting off the >damage pitchers. > >Wolf > > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Mon Jun 13 10:17:24 2005 Subject: [CP] Aristolochia (dutchman's pipe) My Aristolochia is going crazy with flowers. Since they looked very similar to the pitchers of N. lowii (even though N. aristolochioides is named after this genus) I decided to half one. This brought me to this set of conclusions. But first a brief discription of the flower. The flower has a large landing pad that is normally perpindicular to the ground. it protudes slightly out at the opening to the flower which insects must crawl inside to pollinate the flower. Short, semi-stiff white downward pointing hairs line this passage as if to prevent escape. Since it has been raining for a couple days some water entered the bulbous chasm this passage leads too. Several small crawling and flying insects were seen floating in this (all were dead). The hairs line every inch of this chasm also and all face the bottom of it. Once the insect has struggled through this it must reach the downward pointing stigma, stamens, etc. But reight before this is the "prize". Dark brown dectar glands secrete a sticky nectar just below the stigma, etc. The area around the stigma is slightly glabrous (waxy). Two small flying insects (gnats?) were seen glued to this nectar. With this information at hand I see no reason to believe that it would be a major jump for the plants to become carnivorous. They are acually quite amazing with a semi-leaf (rounded pressed against the stem) where ever a flower grows from the stem. I beleve these plants may catch insects on purpose, other wise what would be the purpose of the downward pointing hairs and bulbous bottom? I do not beleve they are true carnivores but further tests may prove them to be capturing insects or perhaps the circumstances surrounding my plant my be unique. I will of course keep studying this plant. Tre Bond ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Mon Jun 13 10:19:09 2005 Subject: [CP] Aristolochia (dutchman's pipe) info I have Aristolochia grandiflora Tre ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Mon Jun 13 10:38:20 2005 Subject: [CP] Aristolochia (dutchman's pipe) Tre, There are many examples of plants that catch and kill insects/animals, yet are not considered carnivorous usually because they are not capable of absorbing the nutrients for their use in growth and reproduction. You'll note that all of the true carnivores capture insects with modified leaves, not with flowers. So, that leaves the interesting question as to why these flowers are apparently trapping insects and seem to resemble Nepenthes pitchers. My guess, similar to some orchid species, is that this is to attract and "trap" pollinating insects for a given amount of time to ensure successful pollination. The other thought could be that it is for protection of the plants reproductive parts. Whatever the case, it's definitely a unique and interesting plant to grow! Cheers! Chris >From: Tre Bond >Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group >To: Cp@omnisterra.com >Subject: [CP] Aristolochia (dutchman's pipe) >Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:17:15 -0700 (PDT) > >My Aristolochia is going crazy with flowers. Since they looked very >similar to the pitchers of N. lowii (even though N. aristolochioides is >named after this genus) I decided to half one. This brought me to this set >of conclusions. >But first a brief discription of the flower. The flower has a large >landing pad that is normally perpindicular to the ground. it protudes >slightly out at the opening to the flower which insects must crawl inside >to pollinate the flower. Short, semi-stiff white downward pointing hairs >line this passage as if to prevent escape. Since it has been raining for a >couple days some water entered the bulbous chasm this passage leads too. >Several small crawling and flying insects were seen floating in this (all >were dead). The hairs line every inch of this chasm also and all face the >bottom of it. Once the insect has struggled through this it must reach the >downward pointing stigma, stamens, etc. But reight before this is the >"prize". Dark brown dectar glands secrete a sticky nectar just below the >stigma, etc. The area around the stigma is slightly glabrous (waxy). Two >small flying insects (gnats?) were seen glued to this nectar. >With this information at hand I see no reason to believe that it would be a >major jump for the plants to become carnivorous. They are acually quite >amazing with a semi-leaf (rounded pressed against the stem) where ever a >flower grows from the stem. I beleve these plants may catch insects on >purpose, other wise what would be the purpose of the downward pointing >hairs and bulbous bottom? I do not beleve they are true carnivores but >further tests may prove them to be capturing insects or perhaps the >circumstances surrounding my plant my be unique. I will of course keep >studying this plant. >Tre Bond > > > >--------------------------------- >Yahoo! Mail > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: nickplummer at nc.rr.com (nickplummer@nc.rr.com) Date: Mon Jun 13 12:33:00 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Aristolochia As Chris points out, there are many flowers that have trapping mechanisms, but the trap's function is to secure pollinators alive. Since the flowers depend on the insects escaping alive, I would think that is is highly unlikely that any of these plants would evolve carnivory. In the case of Tre's Aristolochia, if rainwater gets into the flower and drowns any insect that enters, it may no longer be successfully pollinated. As Tre notes, however, some flower-traps can be lethal to insects that are not the preferred pollinator. I currently have two species of Coryanthes orchids blooming in my greenhouse. The bucket or pitcher portion of the flower even fills with fluid produced by the flower. Its function is to wet bees that fall in, so they are forced to crawl out via the pollen rather than flying. Occasionally, fungus gnats will drown, but the flower mainly attracts bees which must be able to escape alive. Nick -- Nicholas Plummer nickplummer@nc.rr.com ################### From: lulibybb at aol.com (lulibybb@aol.com) Date: Mon Jun 13 13:29:16 2005 Subject: [CP] Ecology Day and SX'Ritchie Bell' Over the weekend I attended Ecology Day at John Hummer's in Virginia. In attendance were a number of long time CPer's including Charles Brewer, Bill Scholl, Jeff Mathison, and a cameo by Phil Sheridan. A large number of others included members of wild flower societies and various bird enthusiasts. Overall, the meeting was an enjoyable success. John led 2 tours throughout the day, discussing his efforts through the years. His land includes a 3+ acre pond and wetland habitat. John has naturalized many native plant species, including numerous CP. To minimize damage to the various plants, John has installed a boardwalk all around the pond. It's nice to see the east coast have some CP meetings, again. Compared to other regions, the east coast has had few meetings in the last several years. On another note. I've checked my supply of the former SX"Blackened Redfish," newly introduced 'Ritchie Bell.' I only have 2 small divisions that I'd like to keep longer, in hopes of improving their size. I'm sorry I couldn't offer any at this time, like I had hoped. Thanks to all those that have asked about it. I will certainly offer it in the future. ################### From: meadow at bealenet.com (meadow@bealenet.com) Date: Mon Jun 13 16:23:42 2005 Subject: [CP] Sarracenia purpurea research help needed Hi Folks: Is there anyone in the following northern states (Connecticut, R.I., Maine, New York, Massachuetts, Michigan, Minnesotta) who can supply me with S. purpurea flower buds for my research? I am trying to finish my doctoral work and need flower buds from these states for my DNA research at the USDA. I need 15 flower buds from a site in each state. If you can help please contact me by this e-mail or by phone at (804) 633-4336. I can reimburse you for postage expense. Flower buds must be legally collected. Really appreciate the help. Sincerely, Phil Sheridan http://www.bealenet.com ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Mon Jun 13 17:53:05 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Help with a guide on dividing CPs for Jr High The part I refer to is not just brown,but kind of rotted. Right now its acting as a sponge,so it really not important. Thats why I said remove some of it in late fall or winter? Right now,I just leaving it be. And the leave that I cutted off were already damaged,and would not capture nor hold any insects. So they were warthless to the plant. But One of the pitchers is ok even thought little damage,but it will capture and hold the insects for digestion. And there is another that is still new shoot that is still growing,but not at this time because the plant not adopted to the new soil yet. I got the plant bare rooted and I can see it was in peat moss,so it has to adopt to my soil which is long-fiber S. moss with perlite. The maxima is a lot bigger than my flava. :) Wolf ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Mon Jun 13 17:57:49 2005 Subject: [CP] One of my Drosera capillaris has mutated One of my D. capillaris has heart-shape to thick leaves(traps). I know sometimes my cps do this rarely with atlease on leave on a plant,but not a bunch if not all of them. Wierd! Wolf ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Mon Jun 13 18:07:47 2005 Subject: [CP] One of my Drosera capillaris has mutated digital camera pic please! oh yeah and a leaf cutting for me! =) --- Harry Q wrote: > One of my D. capillaris has heart-shape to thick > leaves(traps). I know > sometimes my cps do this rarely with atlease on > leave on a plant,but not a > bunch if not all of them. Wierd! > > Wolf > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Mon Jun 13 18:23:09 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: One of my Drosera capillaris has mutated I can take a snap shot of it,but don't think you will be able to see it good in the photo? The plant has got lumpy and very dewy. Odd? But I thought about doing some leaf cuttings? If so,I try to remember to take snap shot of the cutted leaves for better veiw? My cam is crapy,and the photos might be fuzzy? Sometime it don't do that,it kind of depends of the lighting and how the cam is aiming? The cam is bad at aiming,unless the plants are bigger like pitcher plants. Wolf ################### From: djiezus at lycos.com (Fre rik) Date: Tue Jun 14 04:23:46 2005 Subject: [CP] Related: trying to source Passiflora foetida Hi all, I've been looking a while for seeds of this pseudo-cp, but the closest I got was a Passiflora enthousiast who informed me that the species is far from easy to grow. I've just read in a book -dedicated to passiflora- that there are a few subspecies. A few of them are rather difficult but the others seem to be fairly normal in culture. I was wondering if anybody has experience with them or could point me in the direction of available seeds. Cheers, Fred --------------------------------- Terrestrial Orchid Forum http://terrorchid.proboards27.com --------------------------------- . -- _______________________________________________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com ################### From: john.wilden at hmrc.gsi.gov.uk (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) Date: Tue Jun 14 05:09:47 2005 Subject: [CP] wetlands and methane http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4088314.stm This may be of interest. What I find most depressing is the passage "Over much of geological time, natural wetlands have been the major contributor of global methane. Today, natural and man-made wetlands (rice paddies) contribute about 50% of the total methane source". I should imagine that developers would love this as it can be used to legitimise their 'reclamation' projects John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ################### From: gregharmison at houston.rr.com (Greg Harmison) Date: Tue Jun 14 08:48:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Related: trying to source Passiflora foetida Hello, We grow it here in Houston, and I will try to collect some seed if it forms. I will let you know if we get fruit this year. Greg Harmison ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 6:23 AM Hi all, I've been looking a while for seeds of this pseudo-cp, but the closest I got was a Passiflora enthousiast who informed me that the species is far from easy to grow. I've just read in a book -dedicated to passiflora- that there are a few subspecies. A few of them are rather difficult but the others seem to be fairly normal in culture. I was wondering if anybody has experience with them or could point me in the direction of available seeds. Cheers, Fred --------------------------------- Terrestrial Orchid Forum http://terrorchid.proboards27.com --------------------------------- . -- _______________________________________________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Tue Jun 14 08:49:48 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: passiflora I don't know about non-native species,but I know the native ones are some-what easy to grow. I grow native P. incarnata and P. lutea. I had not got blooms from lutea yet after the years I had it,so I moved then into a sunnier spot. Now for a long time I had trouble with incarnata adopting to soil and suriving the winter in the past,but since I got some from some one here in MD they took off and survived the winter. Now they just coming out of dormancy. I like to find the white flower of the native passiflora incarnata var. alba. Wolf ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Tue Jun 14 08:57:30 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: wetlands and methane I think man creats extreme amounts of methane,compaired to Mother Nature? Ever thing nature breaks down for the good of nature is balanced out,and lot safer than what man creats. Since the would is so overpopulated and the need for more food and wated is a big concern,guess a large amounts of rice fields would give out lots of methane. But in nature,its all balanced out and less harmless compaired to man made toxic gases. Wolf ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Tue Jun 14 09:24:03 2005 Subject: [CP] Wanted: U. juncea and U. resupinata Reversed Bladderwort Utricularia resupinata Southern Bladderwort Utricularia juncea Wolf ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Tue Jun 14 09:32:44 2005 Subject: [CP] Wanted: Native Pinguicula caerulea,lutea,and pumila Looking for these US native butterworts. Violet Butterwort Pinguicula caerulea Yellow Butterwort Pinguicula lutea Dwarf Butterwort Pinguicula pumila Wolf ################### From: massey at fmhi.usf.edu (Massey, Oliver) Date: Tue Jun 14 10:31:27 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: FWIW outdoor plantings -Just a note I thought some might find interesting: I had a great opportunity to buy land for a new home last year (2 acres). The house is still being built (don't ask), but the property has a wetland/ditch/wet spot (depending on how optimistic I am that day). This is typical Florida property that is almost pure sand with a little detritus, leaf mold, decomposed pine needles etc., one bald cypress, lots of pine and a fair amount of cinnamon fern. As far as I know it has never been built on, although I think it was cut for hardwood lumber at least once and maybe leveled in spots. Going against my own good judgment I planted a few sarrs and neps along the wet spots in March of 2004. Plants were not left in pots, I just dug a hole the right size and dropped them in. I tried a few different planting levels for both, with water levels ranging from just about ground level to maybe 8" down. Sarrs were both hybrids and species, no flava as I recall, but leuco., psitt., rubra, and various crosses. Neps included a few hardy hybrids like leesii, hookeriana, some of my homemade crosses, and truncata, mirabilis, and gracillis. Results were a little surprising. The sarrs didn't make it. They crapped out pretty quickly. The neps on the other hand, started out great. The truncata died, but the rest stabilized and all but one of them pitchered. Then we had 4 hurricanes in the summer/fall of 2004. None of the 4 hit our area, but they came close and we got lots and lots of rain. In fact, we had so much rain that the water level in the wet spot went up about 4 feet. Everyone of the neps was under 3 or 4 feet of water for about four days. Locals say it was the first time it had happened in 25 years. Well, the leesii that had been at waters edge and my home grown crosses declined and died within two weeks. On the plus side, the other neps are still alive and kicking. The mirabilis, also at waters edge is small and stunted, but has now been in place about 15+ months. This one may need more light, the tree cover may actually be harming it. The hookeriana that had been under maybe 2 feet of water, has both basal rosettes with pitchers as well as one long meristem that is producing new buds after loosing the growth tip; the gracillis, while not pitchering, is still growing among the ferns. So after 15 months, 50% of the neps are still going with the hybrid doing the best. I later found out that at least once in the last 15 months the area was flooded with well water from a nearby golf course that pumped to replenish a pond. So even though the sand has few nutrients, it may be contaminated with nutrients from the overflow. Although I never saw it happen while they were alive, I am assuming that took out the Sarrs. Tom in Fl. ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Tue Jun 14 12:07:20 2005 Subject: [CP] Related: trying to source Passiflora foetida which passionfruit is the big orange squishy one? saw that in hawaii and thought it was the coolest thing. --- Greg Harmison wrote: > Hello, > We grow it here in Houston, and I will try to > collect some seed if it forms. > I will let you know if we get fruit this year. > Greg Harmison > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fre rik" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 6:23 AM > Subject: [CP] Related: trying to source Passiflora > foetida > > > Hi all, > > I've been looking a while for seeds of this > pseudo-cp, but the closest > I got was a Passiflora enthousiast who informed me > that the species is > far from easy to grow. I've just read in a book > -dedicated to passiflora- > that there are a few subspecies. A few of them are > rather difficult but > the others seem to be fairly normal in culture. > > I was wondering if anybody has experience with them > or could point me > in the direction of available seeds. > > Cheers, > Fred > --------------------------------- > Terrestrial Orchid Forum > http://terrorchid.proboards27.com > --------------------------------- > > > . > > -- > _______________________________________________ > NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search > multiple dating sites at > once. > http://datingsearch.lycos.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: walterg at nauticom.net (walterg@nauticom.net) Date: Tue Jun 14 13:11:49 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Passiflora foetida I may have some here. Send me your snail address, and I'll see if I can get seeds or cuttings. - WG > Hi all, > > I've been looking a while for seeds of this pseudo-cp, but the closest > I got was a Passiflora enthousiast who informed me that the species is > far from easy to grow. I've just read in a book -dedicated to passiflora- > that there are a few subspecies. A few of them are rather difficult but > the others seem to be fairly normal in culture. > > I was wondering if anybody has experience with them or could point me > in the direction of available seeds. > > Cheers, > Fred ################### From: flyingcamel at gmail.com (flyingcamel) Date: Tue Jun 14 15:23:40 2005 Subject: [CP] Related: trying to source Passiflora foetida That'd likely be Passiflora edulis v. flavicarpa, or lilikoi in Hawaiian. They make excellent sorbet and chiffon pie. The wrinkly dark purple ones that are in grocery stores sometimes are plain ol' Passiflora edulis. Cynthia On 6/14/05, Chris Hind wrote: > which passionfruit is the big orange squishy one? saw > that in hawaii and thought it was the coolest thing. > ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Tue Jun 14 16:34:33 2005 Subject: [CP] biophytum sensitivum seeds know where to get any? i know its not CP but im sure many of you are interested in moving plants as well. ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Tue Jun 14 17:53:29 2005 Subject: [CP] D. meristocaulis update/ trans-Atlantic transport Hello Ivan!! I'm sorry to hear about your Dad's health problems!! >My D. meristocaulis are growing fabulously and look like they could >start to flower any time now. Send us pictures!!! :):) >About the sea water experiment: How did a pygmy sundew get to Brazil? >It was Jan Schlauer who first suggested that D. burmannii/sessilifolia >may have crossed the Atlantic from Africa to brazil via rafting through >what is known as the Columbus Route Current. A number of other plants >are believed to have been transported this way. I tested the theory by >soaking seed capsules of D. anglica in sea water for 4 weeks. The seed >germinated normally. I used D. anglica because this species may have >been similarly transported to Hawaii from California as some other >plants have. I'm confident D. burmannii could survive such transport >as well. Your witness of D. capillaris and D. intermedia on a beach in >Brazil makes it all the more credible Fernando. Not only D.intermedia and D.capillaris, but also D.brevifolia is abundant along the coastal areas of Brazil, in habitats called "restingas". As for D.sessilifolia, although it is widespread along central S.America, it is also found in restingas along the NE coast of Brazil. This helps support your sea route hypothesis, showing a possible entry route used by D.sessilifolia to colonize S.America. >I can believe a pygmy sundew could have crossed the Atlantic to give >rise to D. meristocaulis. What does everyone else think? I'm not sure we can say so clearly that a pygmy crossed from Australia to S.America using Africa as a jump point, or even across the Pacific Ocean. First of all, we don't know what the common ancestor of pygmies and D.meristocaulis was like. Maybe pygmies have a more recent common ancestor with the petiolaris complex. Either way, I think it's a very ancient lineage. Maybe so ancient that there were even no oceans to cross! Really, when did Gondwana separate? And then there's D.stenopetala and D.uniflora (the former in NZ and the latter in S S.America). These closely related species suggest a possible Antarctican migration route from NZ to S.America or vice-versa during periods of warmer climates. Could a D.meristocaulis ancestor have followed a similar route from Australia to S.America, maybe even helped by a closer proximity of continents millions of years ago? Last of all, there's D.regia and D.arcturi, which are apparently more closely related to each other than to any other Drosera species. Could a common ancestor have migrated through Antarctica from Africa to Australia/ NZ or vice-versa? Speculations upon speculations... I think we'll never know when, how, or what really happened... Take Care, Fernando Rivadavia Sao Paulo, Brazil ################### From: barry_burch at excite.com (Barry Burch) Date: Tue Jun 14 21:13:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Green Swamp Poaching of VFT's http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mid/myrtlebeachonline/news/local/11870427.htm Hundreds of VFT's were poached. CPers need to be on the lookout for mature VFT bulbs for sale. Barry _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ################### From: jcreef at bellsouth.net (Juan-Carlos) Date: Tue Jun 14 21:21:32 2005 Subject: [CP] Green Swamp Poaching of VFT's Link didnt work... hmm In any case, if you search for "poached" the article is the first to come up! Really sucks! Juan-Carlos ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 12:13 AM > > > http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mid/myrtlebeachonline/news/local/11870427.htm > > > > > > > Hundreds of VFT's were poached. > > > > > > > CPers need to be on the lookout for mature VFT bulbs for sale. > > > > > > > Barry > > > _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - > http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Tue Jun 14 21:35:11 2005 Subject: [CP] Related: trying to source Passiflora foetida I haven't found it to be too difficult to grow, I've been growing both foetida and ssp arizonica. I have not, as yet, gotten any fruits, though I have gotten flowers. As a matter of fact, one is in the process of flowering right now. I have not observed anything that I would consider carnivorous about them. TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Tue Jun 14 22:55:36 2005 Subject: [CP] Related: trying to source Passiflora foetida not even resinous glands on the flower bracts? http://www.sarracenia.com/photos/miscplant/pfoet01.jpg Gary Kong HmrTheHrmt@aol.com wrote: >I haven't found it to be too difficult to grow, I've been growing both >foetida and ssp arizonica. I have not, as yet, gotten any fruits, >though I have gotten flowers. As a matter of fact, one is in the >process of flowering right now. I have not observed anything that I >would consider carnivorous about them. > > >TTFN > > > >Hamir the Hermit > > > >"What else in this room, reminds me of you? The window sill, where the >crucified pit, of an avocado still sits in water. What else in this >room, reminds me of the relationship I've ruined? The tables I made, >strong enough to hold your magazines, but not your tired weight." >_______________________________________________ Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Wed Jun 15 00:40:36 2005 Subject: [CP] Related: trying to source Passiflora foetida Well, I haven't pulled out my electron microscope, but what I see with the naked eye is something that might have some sticky sap on it, but nothing with the dew production like one sees in Drosera/Drosophyllum/Byblis or even Pinguicula. And I haven't seen any insects being trapped. In a message dated 6/14/2005 10:55:50 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, garkoinsf@netscape.net writes: not even resinous glands on the flower bracts? TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry Rice) Date: Wed Jun 15 08:52:05 2005 Subject: [CP] P. foetida Hey Guys, Passiflora foetida is, in my experience, quite easy to grow. It doesn't care a whit about the soil mix, as I tried it in 50:50 sand:peat and our regular potting mix here at UCDavis. The only trick seems to be in getting good seed. I've tried it several times, and only once were the seeds any good. They seem to be either shortlived or prone to fungal attack. Finally, you are correct that there are many varieties. Unfortunatley, the variety I grew, while I having the dissected bracts, was not glandular! Dang! So if you're growing the form with glandular bracts, I'd love to try some seeds from it! Cheers Barry Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, Coeditor The International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: barry_burch at excite.com (Barry Burch) Date: Wed Jun 15 10:16:27 2005 Subject: [CP] Green Swamp Poaching of VFT's(Link Fixed) http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/myrtlebeachonline/news/local/11870427.htm _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Wed Jun 15 11:22:21 2005 Subject: [CP] re: Green Swamp Poaching of vft I see a webpage that some one had vft not just cutivation,but list vft from NC and SC. Maybe he is one of the poachers? Wolf ################### From: nickplummer at nc.rr.com (nickplummer@nc.rr.com) Date: Wed Jun 15 13:12:42 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Green Swamp poaching of VFTs Bummer. A couple of weeks ago, I took a trip down to Croatan National Forest, just north of the Green Swamp, to look at Cleistes divaricata with a couple of other orchid enthusiasts. We found numerous holes that were almost certainly due to poaching of Sarracenias. Scattered smaller plants of S. purpurea and S. flava were growing around the holes. On a more cheerful note, we also found a Sarracenia x catesbaei (the first that I have seen in the wild) and the biggest clump of S. flava that I have ever seen. That's big as in number of pitchers, not as in height. Since the big clump was free of poaching holes, I won't reveal where it is. Nick -- Nicholas Plummer nickplummer@nc.rr.com ################### From: fatherrules at yahoo.com (woody woodrich) Date: Wed Jun 15 15:00:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Drosera filiformis in bloom in NJ pine barrens? I'd appreciate any New Jersey or NE CPers letting me know if D. filiformis is in bloom there now. I was in the Lakehurst, NJ area last Fall, but would like to go back when things are easier to see. Thanks for your help, Woody in Washington __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail ################### From: mrg40 at student.canterbury.ac.nz (mrg40) Date: Wed Jun 15 18:48:28 2005 Subject: [CP] Update on Cephalotus.... Okay, so after worring myself sick about killing the NZ$35 Ceph my boyfriend gave me... and spraying it cos of a fuzzy fungus (with no effect) and worrying that it has no traps, I have given up. I kind of rubbed the fungus? off between my fingers and it hasn't come back since... I know this is bad because it can damage the plant, but the spray had no effect, and that seemed to have worked. The plant still has no traps, but the leaves don't appear to be dying (yet). So I am going to assume that it is 'hibernating' since it is winter here. I am being very careful with its watering and it never sits in water anymore. Hopefully when spring comes... so will some pitchers!!! Thanks for all the help, Mikala. ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Wed Jun 15 19:10:02 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Drosera filiformis I don't live in NJ,but do know that mine is blooming now. In books they say the flowers of this sundew is pink,but mine looks more deep purple? Wolf ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Wed Jun 15 19:12:19 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: One of my Drosera capillaris has mutated ,have photo I too a much of pitures of this mutated sundew,and picked the best one that I could get a close of it. Like I said,my cam has a bad aim. But you can see what I was talking about? To me it looks one big mutated life that goes about the whole top of the plant? Its had to tell with all the dew on it,unless I cut the dam thing off to see if it is? Wolf ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Wed Jun 15 21:48:25 2005 Subject: [CP] LACPS Meeting this Saturday! For those who are within driving distance of Los Angeles, don't miss the most laid back and fun meeting the west coast has! And if you do miss the meeting, you'll kick yourself, because I'll be bringing something so unbelievable, you'll be telling your grandchildren about it! Something never before seen at an LACPS meeting! Bring your cameras! Meetings are held at the Alhambra Chamber of Commerce building. Doors open at 10:30, the meeting starts at 11:00am and usually goes till 3pm. The cover charge for this meeting is $3 to pay for the meeting room. See a map for directions. From 10 freeway exit Garfield and go North, then turn left onto Commonwealth (1.5 miles from Garfield exit to Commonwealth). Turn right onto First street. The Chamber of Commerce is on the right, next to the multi-level parking structure Address: 104 S. First St., Alhambra, California. U.S.A. TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: walterg at nauticom.net (Walter Greenwood) Date: Thu Jun 16 16:35:10 2005 Subject: [CP] LACPS Meeting this Saturday! Audrey? Dionaea muscipula x Amorphophallus titanum? Michael Jackson? A city councilman without a hidden agenda? Hmm. I hope you'll eventually tell the rest of us what it is! -WG >From: HmrTheHrmt@aol.com > >For those who are within driving distance of Los Angeles, don't miss >the most laid back and fun meeting the west coast has! And if you do >miss the meeting, you'll kick yourself, because I'll be bringing >something so unbelievable, you'll be telling your grandchildren about >it! Something never before seen at an LACPS meeting! Bring your >cameras! > ################### From: ermine at sbcglobal.net (ermine) Date: Thu Jun 16 21:32:00 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 25, Issue 8 > Hi Cp'ers, > > I've got a very stupid question; I'm looking for large amounts of > Drosera capensis seeds. ... > So I need a lot of seedpackets if I want to offer 1 seedpacket to each > visitor. > > Can anyone send me large amounts of Capensis seeds? I might suggest making a website you can point people to with the address to send to! I don't have any seeds -now-, but I will soon. I won't have many at a time, but if everyone on this list sent you a couple of flower stalks, you'd have all the seeds you needed, right? Let us all know where to send them, and I'll see if I can't send you what little I get this year. M. Ouimette ################### From: djiezus at lycos.com (Fre rik) Date: Fri Jun 17 05:12:36 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: P. foetida Thanks all, As Barry and Hamir have experienced, the problem is that one either has an easy variety that produces no sticky buds, or one that does but isn't eay to tame. After annoying a number of people with mails, the traits "easy" and "sticky" seem to be mutually exclusive. Another source confirms the difficulty of getting good seeds, and the plants are normally introduced in collections via rooted cuttings or flower-size plants, bummer. Seems like this species will be put in the back of my mind until I run across one on some obscure plantswap. Thanks to all who replied, Fred -----Terrestrial orchid forum---- http://terrorchid.proboards27.com --------------------------------- >... >Finally, you are correct that there are many varieties. Unfortunatley, >the >variety I grew, while I having the dissected bracts, was not glandular! > >Dang! > >So if you're growing the form with glandular bracts, I'd love to try some >seeds from it! > >Cheers > >Barry -- _______________________________________________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com ################### From: owns6196 at comcast.net (owns6196@comcast.net) Date: Fri Jun 17 08:52:53 2005 Subject: [CP] VFT and captured Flies Hello everyone I wonder can a VFT capture to many flies and, well OD on flies please reply asap my VFT captured 2 flies in the past 4 days. Sincerely David Owings Ferrets have a way of weaseling their way into your heart and once they do they never leave and I wouldn't have it any other way ################### From: hpulley at rogers.com (Harry Pulley) Date: Fri Jun 17 09:09:08 2005 Subject: [CP] VFT and captured Flies > Hello everyone I wonder can a VFT capture to many flies and, well OD on > flies please reply asap my VFT captured 2 flies in the past 4 days. The plant itself cannot OD but VFTs not used to capturing prey will often have the traps go black and die until it gets used to eating again. This will not hurt the plant itself, more leaves will come up. New traps can open again and eat more but old traps and traps on plants not used to eating will often go black instead of reopening, at least in my experience. :-{} Harry C. Pulley, IV mailto:hpulley@rogers.com http://ca.geocities.com/hpulley4@rogers.com Guelph, Ontario, Canada -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.3/15 - Release Date: 6/14/05 ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Fri Jun 17 10:23:51 2005 Subject: [CP] fire ant feeding i just thought of a new technique i might try down here in south florida. in my complex's 'common backyard' surrounding the lake you get areas in the grass where small fireant hills come up. ive only been bitten once so far and it was pretty nasty but it gave me an idea. when you pour water on the hill it roils with a sea of very pissed off ants. grow sundews in individual pots where theyre overflowing out of the pot and you can feed them quite easily. simply pour water into the hill and dab the pot upside down all over the hill glueing all the fireants to the leaves. could be a good way to boost growth rates. another thing ill do is step on a fireant if i see it on the cement porch behind my house. just enough to crumple it and pick it up with some tweezers and put it on a baby sundew. ive noticed small individual sundews dont catch quite as many prey. there seems to be alot more success in capture when they grow in clumps. ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Fri Jun 17 12:14:01 2005 Subject: [CP] fire ant feeding Good idea. I've never run into these little critters before, but from the stories I've heard, I'm glad I haven't! My only thought is that ants tend to be quite strong, so you'd need a big sundew in order to overwhelm them. Something along the lines of the larger D.binata. Sarracenia on the otherhand would, I think, make a great candidate for catching these ants, if you can find a way to entice the ants to enter the traps. Chris > >i just thought of a new technique i might try down >here in south florida. in my complex's 'common >backyard' surrounding the lake you get areas in the >grass where small fireant hills come up. ive only been >bitten once so far and it was pretty nasty but it gave >me an idea. > >when you pour water on the hill it roils with a sea of >very pissed off ants. grow sundews in individual pots >where theyre overflowing out of the pot and you can >feed them quite easily. simply pour water into the >hill and dab the pot upside down all over the hill >glueing all the fireants to the leaves. could be a >good way to boost growth rates. > >another thing ill do is step on a fireant if i see it >on the cement porch behind my house. just enough to >crumple it and pick it up with some tweezers and put >it on a baby sundew. ive noticed small individual >sundews dont catch quite as many prey. there seems to >be alot more success in capture when they grow in clumps. > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu) Date: Fri Jun 17 13:46:31 2005 Subject: [CP] Drosera filiformis in bloom in NJ pine barrens? Dear Woody, I don't think they will be in flower for a couple more weeks, at least. The orchids are flowering now. Dave Evans "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." President George W. Bush Aug. 5, 2004 -----Original Message----- Of woody woodrich Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 6:00 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com I'd appreciate any New Jersey or NE CPers letting me know if D. filiformis is in bloom there now. I was in the Lakehurst, NJ area last Fall, but would like to go back when things are easier to see. Thanks for your help, Woody in Washington ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu) Date: Fri Jun 17 14:01:52 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Drosera filiformis Dear Wolf, I have come to know the color as lilac... _Drosera capillaris_ have a more pink flower when it is not white. Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of Harry Q Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 10:10 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com I don't live in NJ,but do know that mine is blooming now. In books they say the flowers of this sundew is pink,but mine looks more deep purple? Wolf ################### From: adavis at ecoresource.com (Alani Davis) Date: Fri Jun 17 15:14:07 2005 Subject: [CP] Passiflora foetida Hi - I have missed most of the exchanges about Passiflora foetida though subject line caught my eye. I have been growing a plant I got as Passiflora foetida var. gossypiifolia for several years in a haphazard way. This is common with Passiflora since one spends the beginning getting them going. Then if they like their situation, one spends the rest of the time ripping them out just to keep them at a dull roar. This species has been in the kudzu-like class for me when it is happy easily covering a large gazebo. Are there any Passiflora that are TRULY easy to tame unless one is in a temperate climate and rely on potted culture? The one I have definitely has sticky buds as well as pink-banded flowers. I have never bothered with the seed because of the prolific suckers that are fairly easy to dig up and share. I am not sure exactly what you are looking for since I missed the original message, but if you are interested in rooted suckers write back. Alani Davis ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Fri Jun 17 18:22:01 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Drosera filiformis I wasn't talking about Drosera capillaris flower color,but filiformis. Mine is blooming now,and the pink flowers look more close to purple? Wolf --------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Wolf, I have come to know the color as lilac... _Drosera capillaris_ have a more pink flower when it is not white. Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com ################### From: snong69 at hotmail.com (Snogg69) Date: Fri Jun 17 21:41:45 2005 Subject: [CP] Help,pollens needed. Dear All, I'm Nong , Thailand. I urgently need pollens of red ampullaria or = bicalcarata or any round/oval pitcher spp. and hybrid because my = striking red and Klom (round , grade A+ ) female Vikings are going to = bloom in 2 weeks . I will give at least 100 seeds of the hybrids in = return (but please inform me in advance for I have limited female) .I = have succeed in cross pollination Viking with veitchii and Viking x red = ampullaria. If you are interested, please kindly let me know before the = spp.and date collected , and after then , send the pollen with detail = to this address Sorajak Siriborirak 201/501 M.2 Arun nives Klongthanon =20 Saimai Bangkok 10220 Thailand Thanks. Nong URL: = http://www.neofarmthailand.com/index.php?lay=3Dshow&ac=3Darticle&Id=3D246= 46&Ntype=3D6 e-mail : snong70@yahoo.com neo1@neofarmthailand.comFrom harryq1972 at hotmail.com Fri Jun 17 23:04:19 2005 Message-ID: Looking for these US native butterworts. Dwarf Butterwort Pinguicula pumila Wolf ################### From: pat.charpentier at wanadoo.fr (P.Charpentier) Date: Sat Jun 18 04:47:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 25, Issue 15 Hi Chris, I have some seeds left. please e-mail me directly or contact me via my seed-bank : http://forumpc.celeonet.fr/carnibank/wakka.php?wiki=PagePrincipale I'll also receive some other odd seeds later in the year.....Desmodium girans best regards patrice c / france > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:34:21 -0700 (PDT) > From: Chris Hind > Subject: [CP] biophytum sensitivum seeds > To: Cp@omnisterra.com > Message-ID: <20050614233422.65349.qmail@web54103.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > know where to get any? i know its not CP but im sure > many of you are interested in moving plants as well. ################### From: meadow at bealenet.com (meadow@bealenet.com) Date: Sat Jun 18 05:18:44 2005 Subject: [CP] ICPS conference 06 and Joseph Pines visit and discovery Hi Folks: I want to let you know that the day after the scheduled visit to Meadowview for the 2006 ICPS conference we will be leading a tour of the Joseph Pines Preserve. If you are going to make the trek to Meadowview you might want to consider planning to stay somewhere overnight and see the preserve the following day. In the next few weeks we will be doing a growing season burn on Joseph Pines on 11 acres of mature pine woods. This should be a hot fire and really open up more habitat. In fact, the fire lane we put in last year for our first burn has resulted in the discovery of Drosera brevifolia seedlings. To date we had not found this taxa on the preserve and so we now have two competing hypotheses for its occurrence: seed bank or wind dispersal to our preserve. I hope many of you can make the tour in 2006. The Virginia pitcher plants are outstanding and Joseph Pines is the premier native pitcher plant preserve in Virginia. Sincerely, Phil Sheridan Director Meadowview Biological Research Station http://www.bealenet.com ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Sat Jun 18 05:35:03 2005 Subject: [CP] VFT and captured flies David Owings mentioned "Hello everyone I wonder can a VFT capture to many flies and, well OD on flies please reply asap my VFT captured 2 flies in the past 4 days." No, it not possible to overfeed VFT's, as long as they catch their prey naturally. When there are lot of flies about, you can find that the traps on a VFT seem almost permanently closed. This will do the plant the world of good and you will find that the plant will be exceptionally vigorous. Generally, growers do not recommend that you let a VFT flower, but if it is catching a lot of flies, there will be no harm in letting it, especially if you want to harvest the seed. It can be fun growing VFT's from seed, they don't take that long, 3 or 4 years maybe, and they show something of interest every year. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: mpurvis at tampabay.rr.com (Michael Purvis) Date: Sat Jun 18 15:14:51 2005 Subject: [CP] New to group Hi, just joined the ranks here at the CP discussion group. I've just gotten back into the hobby after a lapse of a few years, but have been making up for lost time! :) Collection currently consists of: 6 Venus flytraps (5 typical, 1 Red Dragon) 1 Sarracenia x "Scarlet Belles' 1 Sarracenia purpurea ssp. venosa 1 Sarracenia leucophylla 6 Sarracenia x 'Judith Hindle' 1 Drosera capensis 'red form' 2 Drosera adelae 2 Drosera binata 5 Nepenthes x 'Miranda' 1 Nepenthes x coccinea ...and an ever growing number of typical-form Drosera capensis. They just keep popping up among my other CPs! Good thing... the one that I actually ordered just died last week for some reason. I also lost a Pinguicula primuliflora a few weeks back. I never have much luck with pings. My current search is on for a Nepenthes bicalcarata. I know of several places where I can order one online, but I'm giving a couple of local nurseries a chance to get one for me before I go the mail-order route. Well, guess that's enough of an introduction. May your sundews always be sticky! :) Mike http://www.cafepress.com/viciousplants ################### From: mpurvis at tampabay.rr.com (Michael Purvis) Date: Sat Jun 18 15:18:51 2005 Subject: [CP] New to group Almost forgot... add 2 Sarracenia x 'Dana's Delight' to that list. I need an inventory tracking program to keep up with this collection! :) > Collection currently consists of: > > 6 Venus flytraps (5 typical, 1 Red Dragon) > 1 Sarracenia x "Scarlet Belles' > 1 Sarracenia purpurea ssp. venosa > 1 Sarracenia leucophylla > 6 Sarracenia x 'Judith Hindle' > 1 Drosera capensis 'red form' > 2 Drosera adelae > 2 Drosera binata > 5 Nepenthes x 'Miranda' > 1 Nepenthes x coccinea > Mike http://www.cafepress.com/viciousplants ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Sat Jun 18 22:53:25 2005 Subject: [CP] fire ant feeding my technique is to brush up ants on a long bristle nylon paint brush and dab them wriggling onto sundew leaves. it's best to go after solo ants, especially stinging ones, since a brush full of them can soon become an arm full of them. the best part about this is that the ants are fully mobile and you can take much joy--or should i say schadenfreude--in their pointless struggles. it also works for larger, gooier pings, but you have to have a very light touch so as not to damage their delicate leaves. pretty sick, huh? but you grow CPs, so what the #$!@ you looking at? Gary Kong "Chris Teichreb" wrote: >Good idea. I've never run into these little critters before, but from the >stories I've heard, I'm glad I haven't! My only thought is that ants tend >to be quite strong, so you'd need a big sundew in order to overwhelm them. >Something along the lines of the larger D.binata. Sarracenia on the >otherhand would, I think, make a great candidate for catching these ants, if >you can find a way to entice the ants to enter the traps. > >Chris > >> >>i just thought of a new technique i might try down >>here in south florida. in my complex's 'common >>backyard' surrounding the lake you get areas in the >>grass where small fireant hills come up. ive only been >>bitten once so far and it was pretty nasty but it gave >>me an idea. >> >>when you pour water on the hill it roils with a sea of >>very pissed off ants. grow sundews in individual pots >>where theyre overflowing out of the pot and you can >>feed them quite easily. simply pour water into the >>hill and dab the pot upside down all over the hill >>glueing all the fireants to the leaves. could be a >>good way to boost growth rates. >> >>another thing ill do is step on a fireant if i see it >>on the cement porch behind my house. just enough to >>crumple it and pick it up with some tweezers and put >>it on a baby sundew. ive noticed small individual >>sundews dont catch quite as many prey. there seems to >>be alot more success in capture when they grow in clumps. >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Cp mailing list >>Cp@omnisterra.com >>http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Sun Jun 19 06:51:30 2005 Subject: [CP] fire ant feeding after being bit by one you have little trouble at all dragging them to their deaths. --- Gary Kong wrote: > my technique is to brush up ants on a long bristle > nylon paint brush and dab them wriggling onto sundew > leaves. it's best to go after solo ants, especially > stinging ones, since a brush full of them can soon > become an arm full of them. the best part about > this is that the ants are fully mobile and you can > take much joy--or should i say schadenfreude--in > their pointless struggles. it also works for > larger, gooier pings, but you have to have a very > light touch so as not to damage their delicate > leaves. > > pretty sick, huh? but you grow CPs, so what the > #$!@ you looking at? > > Gary Kong > > "Chris Teichreb" wrote: > > >Good idea. I've never run into these little > critters before, but from the > >stories I've heard, I'm glad I haven't! My only > thought is that ants tend > >to be quite strong, so you'd need a big sundew in > order to overwhelm them. > >Something along the lines of the larger D.binata. > Sarracenia on the > >otherhand would, I think, make a great candidate > for catching these ants, if > >you can find a way to entice the ants to enter the > traps. > > > >Chris > > > >> > >>i just thought of a new technique i might try down > >>here in south florida. in my complex's 'common > >>backyard' surrounding the lake you get areas in > the > >>grass where small fireant hills come up. ive only > been > >>bitten once so far and it was pretty nasty but it > gave > >>me an idea. > >> > >>when you pour water on the hill it roils with a > sea of > >>very pissed off ants. grow sundews in individual > pots > >>where theyre overflowing out of the pot and you > can > >>feed them quite easily. simply pour water into the > >>hill and dab the pot upside down all over the hill > >>glueing all the fireants to the leaves. could be a > >>good way to boost growth rates. > >> > >>another thing ill do is step on a fireant if i see > it > >>on the cement porch behind my house. just enough > to > >>crumple it and pick it up with some tweezers and > put > >>it on a baby sundew. ive noticed small individual > >>sundews dont catch quite as many prey. there seems > to > >>be alot more success in capture when they grow in > clumps. > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Cp mailing list > >>Cp@omnisterra.com > >>http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Cp mailing list > >Cp@omnisterra.com > >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > > -- > San Francisco, CA > World Leader Pretend: > http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Switch to Netscape Internet Service. > As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at > http://isp.netscape.com/register > > Netscape. Just the Net You Need. > > New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer > Search from anywhere on the Web and block those > annoying pop-ups. > Download now at > http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: writserv at nbnet.nb.ca (Rand Nicholson) Date: Sun Jun 19 07:28:53 2005 Subject: [CP] fire ant feeding Chris: How about Psitts? I grew one in a bucket of water and the ants found a way to get at the plant, much to the plant's delight. Rand >Good idea. I've never run into these little critters before, but from the stories I've heard, I'm glad I haven't! My only thought is that ants tend to be quite strong, so you'd need a big sundew in order to overwhelm them. Something along the lines of the larger D.binata. Sarracenia on the otherhand would, I think, make a great candidate for catching these ants, if you can find a way to entice the ants to enter the traps. > >Chris > >> >>i just thought of a new technique i might try down >>here in south florida. in my complex's 'common >>backyard' surrounding the lake you get areas in the >>grass where small fireant hills come up. ive only been >>bitten once so far and it was pretty nasty but it gave >>me an idea. >> >>when you pour water on the hill it roils with a sea of >>very pissed off ants. grow sundews in individual pots >>where theyre overflowing out of the pot and you can >>feed them quite easily. simply pour water into the >>hill and dab the pot upside down all over the hill >>glueing all the fireants to the leaves. could be a >>good way to boost growth rates. >> >>another thing ill do is step on a fireant if i see it >>on the cement porch behind my house. just enough to >>crumple it and pick it up with some tweezers and put >>it on a baby sundew. ive noticed small individual >>sundews dont catch quite as many prey. there seems to >>be alot more success in capture when they grow in clumps. >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Cp mailing list >>Cp@omnisterra.com >>http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Sun Jun 19 07:37:44 2005 Subject: [CP] fire ant feeding interesting, ill have to try that. --- Rand Nicholson wrote: > Chris: > > How about Psitts? I grew one in a bucket of water > and the ants found a way to get at the plant, much > to the plant's delight. > > Rand > > > > >Good idea. I've never run into these little > critters before, but from the stories I've heard, > I'm glad I haven't! My only thought is that ants > tend to be quite strong, so you'd need a big sundew > in order to overwhelm them. Something along the > lines of the larger D.binata. Sarracenia on the > otherhand would, I think, make a great candidate for > catching these ants, if you can find a way to entice > the ants to enter the traps. > > > >Chris > > > >> > >>i just thought of a new technique i might try down > >>here in south florida. in my complex's 'common > >>backyard' surrounding the lake you get areas in > the > >>grass where small fireant hills come up. ive only > been > >>bitten once so far and it was pretty nasty but it > gave > >>me an idea. > >> > >>when you pour water on the hill it roils with a > sea of > >>very pissed off ants. grow sundews in individual > pots > >>where theyre overflowing out of the pot and you > can > >>feed them quite easily. simply pour water into the > >>hill and dab the pot upside down all over the hill > >>glueing all the fireants to the leaves. could be a > >>good way to boost growth rates. > >> > >>another thing ill do is step on a fireant if i see > it > >>on the cement porch behind my house. just enough > to > >>crumple it and pick it up with some tweezers and > put > >>it on a baby sundew. ive noticed small individual > >>sundews dont catch quite as many prey. there seems > to > >>be alot more success in capture when they grow in > clumps. > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Cp mailing list > >>Cp@omnisterra.com > >>http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Cp mailing list > >Cp@omnisterra.com > >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Sun Jun 19 08:37:26 2005 Subject: [CP] D. meristocaulis --Send us pictures!!! :):) Hello Fernando and all, Thanks to Ed Read you can view the latest photos on the LACPS web site: http://www.geocities.com/lacps//Dmeristocaulis.html It's good we got the trans-Atlantic transport theory out of the way. I agree that D. meristocaulis has likely been a resident of Brazil far longer than the recent arriver D. sessilifolia. Now it's time to plunge into a far deeper mystery; --Drosera basal taxonomy. Are you ready to Rock'n Roll? Here we go! Notice the sessile glands all over the leaves front and back. These are quite dewy and reminiscent of Drosophylum. Consider that Drosophylum also has cryptocotelar germination. Could these sessile glands on D. meristocaulis be carnivorous, and if so, what does this all mean? I'll let you ponder this and see if you come to the same conclusion. enjoy, Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California >Hello Ivan!! Send us pictures!!! :):) >About the sea water experiment: How did a pygmy sundew get to Brazil? >It was Jan Schlauer who first suggested that D. burmannii/sessilifolia may have crossed the Atlantic from Africa to brazil via rafting through what is known as the Columbus Route Current. A number of other plants are believed to have been transported this way. I tested the theory by soaking seed capsules of D. anglica in sea water for 4 weeks. The seed germinated normally. I used D. anglica because this species may have been similarly transported to Hawaii from California as some other plants have. I'm confident D. burmannii could survive such transport as well. Your witness of D. capillaris and D. intermedia on a beach in Brazil makes it all the more credible Fernando. Not only D.intermedia and D.capillaris, but also D.brevifolia is abundant along the coastal areas of Brazil, in habitats called "restingas". As for D.sessilifolia, although it is widespread along central S.America, it is also found in restingas along the NE coast of Brazil. This helps support your sea route hypothesis, showing a possible entry route used by D.sessilifolia to colonize S.America. >I can believe a pygmy sundew could have crossed the Atlantic to give >rise to D. meristocaulis. What does everyone else think? I'm not sure we can say so clearly that a pygmy crossed from Australia to S.America using Africa as a jump point, or even across the Pacific Ocean. First of all, we don't know what the common ancestor of pygmies and D.meristocaulis was like. Maybe pygmies have a more recent common ancestor with the petiolaris complex. Either way, I think it's a very ancient lineage. Maybe so ancient that there were even no oceans to cross! Really, when did Gondwana separate? And then there's D.stenopetala and D.uniflora (the former in NZ and the latter in S S.America). These closely related species suggest a possible Antarctican migration route from NZ to S.America or vice-versa during periods of warmer climates. Could a D.meristocaulis ancestor have followed a similar route from Australia to S.America, maybe even helped by a closer proximity of continents millions of years ago? Last of all, there's D.regia and D.arcturi, which are apparently more closely related to each other than to any other Drosera species. Could a common ancestor have migrated through Antarctica from Africa to Australia/ NZ or vice-versa? Speculations upon speculations... I think we'll never know when, how, or what really happened... Take Care, Fernando Rivadavia Sao Paulo, Brazil ___________________________________________________________________ Get Juno Platinum for as low as $6.95/month! Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage. Visit http://www.juno.com/bestoffer to sign up today! ################### From: owns6196 at comcast.net (owns6196@comcast.net) Date: Sun Jun 19 08:41:12 2005 Subject: [CP] Reason Hoomans exist I think the only Hoomans exist is to care for FERRETS the way they want to be cared for with all the toys and good food without the risk of living in the wild. Sincerely David Owings Ferrets have a way of weaseling their way into your heart and once they do they never leave and I wouldn't have it any other way ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Sun Jun 19 09:20:33 2005 Subject: [CP] Digital Camera Poll I just posted this message to the CPUK forum here: http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=84819#84819 (I realize people will probably post images so it may be easier to compare by visiting that URL) Hi friends, I'm finally ready to buy a new digital camera. I know I've asked friends for recommendations in the past, but since time has passed (and memory has faded), I'd appreciate some feedback. Could everyone please post a couple photos taken on their digital cameras? I'd like to see a closeup shot (the closest you can get), what you feel is your camera's best shot, general opinions on your camera for CP photography and the make and model of camera. Another concern of mine is the waiting time between photos - how long does it take for the camera to do what it does between photos? Any other pros and cons would be great. Thanks!! Matt ################### From: owns6196 at comcast.net (owns6196@comcast.net) Date: Sun Jun 19 11:15:56 2005 Subject: [CP] Reason Hoomans exist I made a missfire this was supposed to go to a ferret list. ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 8:41 AM >I think the only Hoomans exist is to care for FERRETS the way they want to >be cared for with all the toys and good food without the risk of living in >the wild. > > > Sincerely > David Owings > > Ferrets have a way of weaseling their way into your heart and once they do > they never leave and I wouldn't have it any other way > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.8/22 - Release Date: 6/17/2005 > > ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Sun Jun 19 11:26:45 2005 Subject: [CP] fire ant feeding _Click here: eBay item 7331195763 (Ends Jun-25-05 08:29:34 PDT) - Noritake 1918 Venus Fly Trap Bowl Ruffled Edge_ (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7331195763&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1) Don't know that I would call it a flytrap, but it does sort of look like Audrey II...... TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: stovehouse at earthlink.net (Michael Hunt) Date: Sun Jun 19 11:54:44 2005 Subject: [CP] Politics on cp Forum from Evans "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." President George W. Bush Aug. 5, 2004 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ..... This has no place here and we don't need this tripe or any type of personal crap regarding politics on a forum regarding cp and subjects regarding nature. Take this stuff back to the Dangerous Plant Farm in very urban suburban Northern Virginal McLean or leave it in NJ. What a dope thing to add as a signature you know you are going to fire people up as this is a Worldwide discussion group. Dork City.....Dave, The call me Mr. Tibbs, ~ Mike St. Petersburg, Fl ################### From: MCATALANI at aol.com (MCATALANI@aol.com) Date: Sun Jun 19 12:02:40 2005 Subject: [CP] Field Trip Pictures Howdy All, Just got back from a trip to the CP fields of the gulf coast. I've posted just over 60 photos of the trip on the web site. The link to the field trip page can be found at http://cpjungle.com/ftrip062005.htm ################### From: stovehouse at earthlink.net (Michael Hunt) Date: Sun Jun 19 12:04:33 2005 Subject: [CP] Passiflora foetida Passiflora foetida is a perennial herbaceous vine that originates from tropical America, but is now a pantropic weed. It is a common weed in many places of the Pacific and Atlantic, where it climbs over low vegetation on roadsides and in other disturbed places. Monitoring and management of this toxic plant is recommended in tropical areas where it is present. Description "Perennial vine, the stems hispid, with tendrils; leaves 3-parted; segments-apices acute; leaf base cordate; both sides hispid-hirsute; blades 3,5-10 cm long, 4-12 cm wide; petiole 2-6 cm long; flowers solitary in axils, 3-5 cm wide, purple and white on pedicels 2-7 cm long; fruit yellow to orange; subglobose, thin leathery-skinned, nearly 2 cm think, with many seeds; pulp scanty, sweetly tart. The very finely laciniate bracts enclosing the fruit probably gave rise to the curious common name" (Stone, 1970, in PIER, 2002). The whole plant has an unpleasant smell, but the ripe fruit is edible (Randall, 1998). It is Common on the coastal areas surrounding the gulf of Mexico in the USA, found directly along the coastal areas within 5 miles of the Gulf in sandy areas, just like the more appealing P. incarnata. P. foetida can be found throughout disturbed sandy land in locations throughout the Peninsula of Florida favoring the beach areas. It is a pain in the rump. ################### From: 320049503767-0001 at T-Online.de (320049503767-0001@T-Online.de) Date: Sun Jun 19 14:02:46 2005 Subject: [CP] looking for D. linearis Hi all, anybody out there who is able to give away D. linearis plants or - in some weeks- seed? I am willing to offer a wide range of rare CP-seed from all continents (US-residents) or plants/tubers (EU-residents) to add this lovely plant to my collection. Kindest regards Stefan, Germany ################### From: jim_miller at mindspring.com (Jim Miller) Date: Sun Jun 19 15:11:46 2005 Subject: [CP] Digital Camera Poll Hi Matt (and group), There are lots of great digital cameras on the market right now. I think in many cases, it boils down to feature sets and the choice of storage media (Compact Flash, SD, etc.). From experience (owning one) I can say that without hesitation, my 8 megapixel Nikon 8700 is a superb camera in terms of image quality, however, it leaves a bit to be desired in the user friendliness category. This actually is not surprising, as the cost savings of keeping various functions buried in several menu layers are significant. With the introduction of the Nikon 8800 (which I'll admit is a bit more user-friendly), 8700s are available on eBay as low as $499 (which is what I paid for mine). Other great choices include digitals from Canon and Sony, as well as Konica Minolta (the two have merged, to everyone's benefit). Here are the important criteria for selecting a digital camera (above and beyond the megapixel count): 1. Macro Mode (how close can you focus without requiring an additional close up filter?). 2. Zoom lens (how powerful is the zoom capability, not including digital zoom -- optical only. The 8700 has an 8x zoom, the 8800 a 10x zoom). 3. What storage media does it use (consider the cost, as well as the important question: Will that format be available in 2 or 3 years. I feel Compact Flash is the best option). 4. How expensive are accessories? (flash, telephoto or wide angle lenses, etc. For serious photo work, an external flash is mandatory and don't let anyone tell you differently). 5. What's the warranty like? Most book stores will have digital camera buyer's guides in the magazine section. My favorite and the most comprehensive is from the photo giant, Popular Photography. I suppose you can also consider whether you want to go all the way up to a digital SLR with interchangeable lenses. I feel these are still prohibitively expensive for even serious "non-pro" use. I have been shooting photos since 1971 (I have a relic Nikon FTn from 1972) and I'm quite happy with the "aim and shoot" capabilities of the Nikon 8700, though I almost always shoot in manual mode. If I had an extra $12,000 I'd grab the new 22 megapixel MamiyaZD. 22 megapixels!! Wow!!! Hope this helps. Jim ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Sun Jun 19 18:15:49 2005 Subject: [CP] Politics on cp Forum from Evans Really, it's a sig line. Who cares? Mike P. said lots worse in his general messages, and it was only when he made a totally non-CP political posting that he got banned (which I still disagree with...really, how hard is it to hit the 'delete' button?). A discussion group is just that, a discussion, some politics are bound to creep in. In a message dated 6/19/2005 11:54:55 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, stovehouse@earthlink.net writes: ..... This has no place here and we don't need this tripe or any type of personal crap regarding politics on a forum regarding cp and subjects regarding nature. Take this stuff back to the Dangerous Plant Farm in very urban suburban Northern Virginal McLean or leave it in NJ. TTFN Hamir the Hermit "What else in this room, reminds me of you? The window sill, where the crucified pit, of an avocado still sits in water. What else in this room, reminds me of the relationship I've ruined? The tables I made, strong enough to hold your magazines, but not your tired weight." ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Sun Jun 19 18:19:08 2005 Subject: [CP] Passiflora foetida And quite a tasty little treat, as well. But a bit of work what with all the little seeds. I saw kids in the Philippines that seemed to enjoy eating them when they saw a ripe one on a plant. In a message dated 6/19/2005 12:04:43 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, stovehouse@earthlink.net writes: The whole plant has an unpleasant smell, but the ripe fruit is edible TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Sun Jun 19 18:20:59 2005 Subject: [CP] Reply change? (OT) Has the default for what happens when you hit 'reply' to reply to a message changed? It used to send to the listserv, but now seems to send to the person who sent the message. TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (rrz7001@humboldt.edu) Date: Sun Jun 19 18:31:48 2005 Subject: [CP] Reply change? (OT) Hmmmm. When I hit reply, it goes to the listserv not the message sender -- just like always. Perhaps you have been banned for your outrageous idea that it is OK to include a quote from the silly (oops, I mean our) President in a sig line. ;) > Has the default for what happens when you hit 'reply' to reply to a > message > changed? It used to send to the listserv, but now seems to send to the > person who sent the message. > > TTFN > > > Hamir the Hermit ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Sun Jun 19 18:54:50 2005 Subject: [CP] Reply change? (OT) You're right, that's what happens now, but it didn't earlier when I was responding to Mike's messages. Maybe he just gets special privileges..... In a message dated 6/19/2005 6:31:50 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, rrz7001@humboldt.edu writes: Hmmmm. When I hit reply, it goes to the listserv not the message sender -- just like always. TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Sun Jun 19 20:47:05 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: D. meristocaulis --Send us pictures!!! :):) Hello Ivan!! > Thanks to Ed Read you can view the latest photos on the LACPS web site: http://www.geocities.com/lacps//Dmeristocaulis.html This is unbelievable, your D.meristocaulis are huuuuuuge! Everybody I've talked to says they've been growing real slow, so what's your secret Ivan? > Notice the sessile glands all over the leaves front and back. These are quite dewy and reminiscent of Drosophylum. Consider that Drosophylum also has cryptocotelar germination. Could these sessile glands on D. meristocaulis be carnivorous, and if so, what does this all mean? I'll let you ponder this and see if you come to the same conclusion. If I remember well, there are lots of rosetted Drosera species (S.African?) with sessile glands on the backs of their leaves, but I have a feeling they're more numerous and smaller than the ones visible on D.meristocaulis. They could well be carnivorous, but I think it's more likely that they serve for protection from aphids and such. The funny thing is that this mucilage appears to be somewhat resinous since it can be seen on herbarium specimens as tiny pellets covering the backsides of the leaves... I wonder if this is also true for other Drosera species with sessile glands on the backs of their leaves or if those of D.meristocaulis are truly unique... Take Care, Fernando Rivadavia Sao Paulo, Brazil ################### From: ksanders at clas.ufl.edu (Keith Sanders) Date: Mon Jun 20 05:36:19 2005 Subject: [CP] Digital Camera Poll You may also want to visit http://megapixel.net/ for comparison/review info , including macro performance. Sundew wrote: > I just posted this message to the CPUK forum here: > http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=84819#84819 > (I realize people will probably post images so it may be easier to > compare by visiting that URL) > > Hi friends, > I'm finally ready to buy a new digital camera. I know I've asked > friends for recommendations in the past, but since time has passed (and > memory has faded), I'd appreciate some feedback. > Could everyone please post a couple photos taken on their digital cameras? > I'd like to see a closeup shot (the closest you can get), what you feel > is your camera's best shot, general opinions on your camera for CP > photography and the make and model of camera. > Another concern of mine is the waiting time between photos - how long > does it take for the camera to do what it does between photos? Any > other pros and cons would be great. > Thanks!! > Matt > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com -- Keith Sanders Systems Programmer CLASnet - College of Liberal Arts Network University of Florida PO Box 112034 Gainesville, FL 32611 ################### From: asplundii at gmail.com (Travis Wyman) Date: Mon Jun 20 07:36:05 2005 Subject: [CP] Utric hybrid question Does anyone out there know if the cross U. alpina x humboldtii has been made? ################### From: DougWitkowski at netscape.net (DougWitkowski@netscape.net) Date: Mon Jun 20 09:13:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Field Trip Pictures Thankyou very much. The pictures were very enjoyable! Reminds me of a trip I took long ago to the Yellow River in the FL panhandle. The info also helps me with my little bog here in central Texas. I move plants around, from time to time, and it's good to be reminded what they like in the wild. Doug Witkowski MCATALANI@aol.com wrote: >Howdy All, > >Just got back from a trip to the CP fields of the gulf coast. I've >posted just over 60 photos of the trip on the web site. The link to >the field trip page can be found at http://cpjungle.com/ftrip062005.htm > > > >Michael Catalani _______________________________________________ Cp >mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Mon Jun 20 09:37:32 2005 Subject: [CP] Field Trip Pictures how was the bug level up there? id been considering taking a trip up there but i was wondering if i should wait till fall. the bugs are pretty nuts down this way in the everglades so i expected it was probably the same scenario up there. > MCATALANI@aol.com wrote: > > >Howdy All, > > > >Just got back from a trip to the CP fields of the > gulf coast. I've posted > >just over 60 photos of the trip on the web site. > The link to the field trip page > >can be found at http://cpjungle.com/ftrip062005.htm > > > > > >Michael Catalani > >_______________________________________________ > >Cp mailing list > >Cp@omnisterra.com > >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Switch to Netscape Internet Service. > As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at > http://isp.netscape.com/register > > Netscape. Just the Net You Need. > > New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer > Search from anywhere on the Web and block those > annoying pop-ups. > Download now at > http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: MCATALANI at aol.com (MCATALANI@aol.com) Date: Mon Jun 20 10:08:17 2005 Subject: [CP] Field Trip Pictures In a message dated 6/20/2005 11:37:40 AM Central Daylight Time, cixcell@yahoo.com writes: how was the bug level up there? id been considering taking a trip up there but i was wondering if i should wait till fall. the bugs are pretty nuts down this way in the everglades so i expected it was probably the same scenario up there. They were nearly non-existant the first part of the week. (June 13th-June 16th) The tropical storm probably displaced them inland. It was really nice not having to deal with them. During the latter part of the week, I encountered one large fly and two mosquitos during an entire day. And this was at a bog where I was assaulted last year to the point where I had to leave after a few minutes. So it made for a really pleasant experience. Not sure how long it will take for them to re-engage the area, but it was nice to encounter fewer biting insects in the middle of June than you could expect to see in the middle of winter. Now, it felt like I was walking around in a freaking bamboo steamer. It was really hot, and humidity levels felt like the were in the quadruple digits. But without mosquitos and biting flies the size of my hand, it felt like paradise. ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Mon Jun 20 14:16:44 2005 Subject: [CP] Wanted: U. juncea and U. resupinata Reversed Bladderwort Utricularia resupinata Southern Bladderwort Utricularia juncea Wolf ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu) Date: Mon Jun 20 16:12:47 2005 Subject: [CP] Politics on cp Forum from Evans Dear Mike, Actually, I thought it was one of the funniest things I've heard! Did you read the quote? Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of Michael Hunt Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 2:55 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." President George W. Bush Aug. 5, 2004 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ..... This has no place here and we don't need this tripe or any type of personal crap regarding politics on a forum regarding cp and subjects regarding nature. Take this stuff back to the Dangerous Plant Farm in very urban suburban Northern Virginal McLean or leave it in NJ. What a dope thing to add as a signature you know you are going to fire people up as this is a Worldwide discussion group. Dork City.....Dave, The call me Mr. Tibbs, ~ Mike St. Petersburg, Fl ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Mon Jun 20 16:16:40 2005 Subject: [CP] Politics on cp Forum from Evans In particular, I like the double edged quality of it..... Shades of Mayor Daley! In a message dated 6/20/2005 4:13:08 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu writes: Actually, I thought it was one of the funniest things I've heard! Did you read the quote? TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: ullsperg at hotmail.com (Chris Ullsperger) Date: Mon Jun 20 20:49:53 2005 Subject: [CP] U-Haul and Carnivorous Plants I must have missed this episode in the history of Carnivorous Plants Among Us, but a neighbor moved himself out of his apartment using a U-Haul with a giant Venus Fly Trap graphic printed on the side, along with a url: http://www.uhaul.com/supergraphics/flytrap/introduction.html Anyway, I'm sure this must have been batted around here when I wasn't looking as many of the usual suspects in CP popularization are named and quoted (e.g., Barry, Peter, et al.) Chris ################### From: cteichreb at hotmail.com (Chris Teichreb) Date: Tue Jun 21 07:18:38 2005 Subject: [CP] U-Haul and Carnivorous Plants Yep, this has been brought up before. I think it was about 1-2 years ago when this originally came out. Good to see that these u-haul graphics are still out there. I actually saw a truck with this graphic around my area, about as far away from vft/sarr land as you can get! Chris >From: "Chris Ullsperger" >Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group >To: Cp@omnisterra.com >Subject: [CP] U-Haul and Carnivorous Plants >Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 23:49:37 -0400 > >I must have missed this episode in the history of Carnivorous Plants Among >Us, but a neighbor moved himself out of his apartment using a U-Haul with a >giant Venus Fly Trap graphic printed on the side, along with a url: > >http://www.uhaul.com/supergraphics/flytrap/introduction.html > >Anyway, I'm sure this must have been batted around here when I wasn't >looking as many of the usual suspects in CP popularization are named and >quoted (e.g., Barry, Peter, et al.) > >Chris > > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: dglidden at illusionary.com (Derek Glidden) Date: Tue Jun 21 14:15:43 2005 Subject: [CP] Daughters, fire ants, digital cameras and stuff Re-hi, all! I've been "away" for a bit. For a quick explanation, please see: http://gallery.illusionary.com/thumbnails.php?album=74 I've skimmed quickly the last several hundred messages I haven't had time to fully read, I'll just combine everything here. I found a black plastic "chickenwire" at the local home store that has been doing good at keeping the sandhill cranes out of my barrel bogs without looking entirely like I should have a car up on blocks in the back yard. Some comments on the fireant discussion: I've fed fireants to Drosera many times in the past. I've found that the formic acid the soldiers can emit has a strong tendency to damage the leaves pretty badly - to the point that a D.capillaris won't be able to capture anything else with that leaf anymore and D.filliformis gets this really hideous brown/yellow stain all over the leaf where the ant pretty much burns off the dew-producing glands. Workers fare better but I've found in general it's hard for me to get fire ants stuck to sundew. On the flip side, anything with S.flava in it seems to attract fireants like a missile to a jet exhaust. By the end of the summer one or two years I've had three or four 2-3' S.flava pitchers literally filled to the brim with struggling fire ants (had to be many thousands of ants squirming around in there) and I've seen the same thing with S.rubra in the wild. The nice side-effect is the ants tear apart any insect that even drops in long enough for them to get their mandibles on them, even if they'd normally be big enough to escape the plant, in a sort of con-job symbiosis, since the plant winds up eating the ants as well as the extra prey that may have gotten away otherwise. They can really tear you up quickly if you're not careful: http://gallery.illusionary.com/displayimage.php?album=30&pos=8 All of the ants will bite, soldiers and workers, and the big soldiers have really big, powerful mandibles that they'll grab on with and not let go while they sting the crap out of you over and over. The soldiers' sting injects formic acid, which feels like someone sticking a lit matchhead against your skin and hence the "fire ant" moniker. They're invasive to the Southeast US so nobody should feel bad about exterminating as many as you can manage any way you feel like. :) Re: Digital Cameras. Anything recent on the gallery site I pasted above was taken with my Canon Digital Rebel (aka 300D) which I absolutely adore. A big question is whether you want the SLR with interchangeable lenses, or just something you can stick in your pocket. I've heard really great things about the Casio EXILIM series from the pocket-size side of things and either the Canon Digital Rebel or Nikon D70 will make you a happy camper for a long time to come. I didn't notice if anyone had posted this link, so: http://www.dpreview.com/ Re: Aristolochia. I had A.gigantea for a couple of seasons before I moved into our current house - it didn't survive the digging up/replanting, which made me sad as it's quite the awesome plant. And of course I'm sure you know that Nepenthes aristolochea(sp?) is named after the pitchers' resemblance to the flowers. It had quite the tendency to attract and capture flies in its flowers, smelled pretty funky. Like an old moldy dishrag I thought. I wasn't able to drive up to the FL panhandle this year (see first paragraph...) so I wasn't able to check on the doubled S.alata I posted about last year. I've already forgotten who was dealing with ABG on getting the plant into cultivation - any further word on that? Finally: Barry I think Phill is calling you old is what he's doing. :) ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Tue Jun 21 20:52:14 2005 Subject: [CP] Many Rare CP Available: Drosera, Genlisea, Cephalotus, Hi friends, Sorry for the cross-post. Many of you know that I sometimes offer spare plants for sale or trade. I need space yet again, so I'm going to try to find the time to unload some plants again soon. I'm updating my database. EVEN IF YOU'RE ALREADY ARE ON MY MAILING LIST, please visit the web page below and enter your email address to receive info on my future plant offers: http://sundewgrower.com/addemail.html Again, please do this even if you were on my previous mailing list!!! Thanks, Matt http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html PS Please remember that I'm in the US and am unable to obtain permits for shipping plants outside of the US. PPS Apologies to those who inquired about the Neblina seed after the initial batch was sent - a really tight schedule has prevented me from making a followup offer, but the leftover seed is being kept fresh in the refrigerator (where it can last for decades!). I hope to offer either more seed or plants of these varieties when my schedule allows. (The plants are growing well) :) Lastly, I also apologize to anyone I owe email to, I've been swamped! If I owe you anything or you really need a reply, please email me again and I'll try to answer quickly. ################### From: walterg at nauticom.net (Walter Greenwood) Date: Tue Jun 21 21:02:32 2005 Subject: [CP] U-Haul and Carnivorous Plants I seem to remember Peter D'Amato telling me he was responsible for that. -WG >I must have missed this episode in the history of Carnivorous Plants Among >Us, but a neighbor moved himself out of his apartment using a U-Haul with a >giant Venus Fly Trap graphic printed on the side, along with a url: > >http://www.uhaul.com/supergraphics/flytrap/introduction.html > >Anyway, I'm sure this must have been batted around here when I wasn't >looking as many of the usual suspects in CP popularization are named and >quoted (e.g., Barry, Peter, et al.) > >Chris > ################### From: asplundii at gmail.com (Travis Wyman) Date: Wed Jun 22 08:47:08 2005 Subject: [CP] Searching for Sarrs Hello all, I had a bad run this spring and took some heavy losses to my Sarr collection. I have recovered most of the lost plants but I am still looking for the antho-free form of S. leucophylla. If anyone out there has one and would be willing to trade I would like to hear from you. I am also looking to add the Citronelle "yellow-flowered" S. leucophylla to my collection if possible and would be interested in hearing from anyone growing this plant as well. Thanks Travis ################### From: rhillier at swconnection.com (Rick Hillier) Date: Wed Jun 22 13:00:28 2005 Subject: [CP] Drosera Binata Survived The Winter In My Bog Greetings all, In checking out my bog this last weekend, I had the pleasant surprise of finding that a drosera binata 'T-Form' specimen that I had in my bog had successfully overwintered and is now growing vigorously. It appears to be growing from the original growth crown and not from the roots. The bog was protected by about 4-5" of pine mulch and we had temps in the -20's celcius for much of a winter that came early and left late in Southern Ontario. We're so far behind that my dionaea flower stalks are only about three to four inches high right now, my purps and flavas have just finished flowering, and the rubras are just soming into bloom. >>> Rick <<< ################### From: o.marthaler at bluewin.ch (o.marthaler@bluewin.ch) Date: Wed Jun 22 14:00:30 2005 Subject: [CP] dr falconeri flowering Hi everybody, Just wondering: Are drosera falconeri flowers of any interest ? Mine has developed a flower stalk and the first flower opened earlier today. Thanks already for the info, OL ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Wed Jun 22 15:48:15 2005 Subject: [CP] Dionaea clump size I have been wondering for some time if there is a maximum size for a clump of a single clone of VFT. I have grown the same clone of VFT since I purchased it in 1955, so I know these plants can live a long time. However, every year or so, I repot the plant and the growth points tend to naturally divide into individual plants. But, what would happen in the natural environment if the plant was not divided and allowed to grow in situ for many years. Would the clump become progressively larger with hundreds or more growth points? Would there be a limit to the clump size? If an animal (possum, gopher, bear) occasionally dug-up the clump, the individual plants could become scattered and in any given field there could be a number of genetically identical plants or clumps. But, if not disturbed, what would a 50-year-old plant look like? Has anyone observed huge clumps? -Bob- ################### From: meadow at bealenet.com (meadow@bealenet.com) Date: Wed Jun 22 15:49:06 2005 Subject: [CP] S. leucohylla green available Hi Travis: We have an abundant supply of the S. leucophylla green plant (anthocyanin-free) that you are interested in. Please check our catalog at www.pitcherplant.org. Sincerely, Phil Sheridan Meadowview http://www.bealenet.com ################### From: utsubokazura at hotmail.com (Amaury Watanabe) Date: Thu Jun 23 06:19:17 2005 Subject: [CP] Drosophyllum lusitanicum sites Hello everyone I will be going to southern Spain for two weeks, during which time I would like to observe Drosophyllum lusitanicum in the wild, for research. If anyone knows of any sites and could privately e-mail me, I'd be grateful. Cheers, Amori Watanabe ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Thu Jun 23 06:24:30 2005 Subject: [CP] Drosophyllum lusitanicum sites oh how i envy you. ever since i grew a drosophyllum i am just amazed by what awesome plants they are. they are no typical 'sundew'. they get huge and reak of honey when the sun hits them. they're really cool plants. --- Amaury Watanabe wrote: > Hello everyone > I will be going to southern Spain for two weeks, > during which time I would > like to observe Drosophyllum lusitanicum in the > wild, for research. If > anyone knows of any sites and could privately e-mail > me, I'd be grateful. > > Cheers, > > Amori Watanabe > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Thu Jun 23 07:15:41 2005 Subject: [CP] Drosophyllum lusitanicum sites see if theres any evidence of where to go at this link http://bestcarnivorousplants.com/Drosophyllum_lusitanicum.htm --- Amaury Watanabe wrote: > Hello everyone > I will be going to southern Spain for two weeks, > during which time I would > like to observe Drosophyllum lusitanicum in the > wild, for research. If > anyone knows of any sites and could privately e-mail > me, I'd be grateful. > > Cheers, > > Amori Watanabe > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: petiolarissean at yahoo.com (Sean Samia) Date: Thu Jun 23 13:42:16 2005 Subject: [CP] Falconeri flowering. Hey OL,Not really.My whole collection is in flower.This week I'm sending a large shipment of seed to Allen Lowrie of the Petiolaris Complex.I breed for hairyness,color and easy seed germination.Allen Lowrie and Sundew Matt are the only official retailers of my plants and seeds.Before releasing seed I try to make F5-F6 crosses from true P1 parent stock.When I make hybrid seed I just don't cross anything that flowers.I throw out a lot of plants and seeds before I think a hybrids worthy of release.Petiolarissean Cp-request@omnisterra.com wrote:Send Cp mailing list submissions to Cp@omnisterra.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to Cp-request@omnisterra.com You can reach the person managing the list at Cp-owner@omnisterra.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Cp digest..." CP Mailing list Today's Topics: 1. Drosera Binata Survived The Winter In My Bog (Rick Hillier) 2. dr falconeri flowering (o.marthaler@bluewin.ch) 3. Dionaea clump size (Robert Ziemer) 4. S. leucohylla green available (meadow@bealenet.com) 5. Drosophyllum lusitanicum sites (Amaury Watanabe) 6. Re: Drosophyllum lusitanicum sites (Chris Hind) 7. Re: Drosophyllum lusitanicum sites (Chris Hind) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Greetings all, In checking out my bog this last weekend, I had the pleasant surprise of finding that a drosera binata 'T-Form' specimen that I had in my bog had successfully overwintered and is now growing vigorously. It appears to be growing from the original growth crown and not from the roots. The bog was protected by about 4-5" of pine mulch and we had temps in the -20's celcius for much of a winter that came early and left late in Southern Ontario. We're so far behind that my dionaea flower stalks are only about three to four inches high right now, my purps and flavas have just finished flowering, and the rubras are just soming into bloom. >>> Rick <<< ------------------------------ Message: 2 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <42AD89ED00049A4F@mssazhb-int.msg.bluewin.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Hi everybody, Just wondering: Are drosera falconeri flowers of any interest ? Mine has developed a flower stalk and the first flower opened earlier today. Thanks already for the info, OL ------------------------------ Message: 3 To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Message-ID: <42B9EA9B.4080309@humboldt.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed I have been wondering for some time if there is a maximum size for a clump of a single clone of VFT. I have grown the same clone of VFT since I purchased it in 1955, so I know these plants can live a long time. However, every year or so, I repot the plant and the growth points tend to naturally divide into individual plants. But, what would happen in the natural environment if the plant was not divided and allowed to grow in situ for many years. Would the clump become progressively larger with hundreds or more growth points? Would there be a limit to the clump size? If an animal (possum, gopher, bear) occasionally dug-up the clump, the individual plants could become scattered and in any given field there could be a number of genetically identical plants or clumps. But, if not disturbed, what would a 50-year-old plant look like? Has anyone observed huge clumps? -Bob- ------------------------------ Message: 4 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <42b9eaa3.6d11.0@bealenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Travis: We have an abundant supply of the S. leucophylla green plant (anthocyanin-free) that you are interested in. Please check our catalog at www.pitcherplant.org. Sincerely, Phil Sheridan Meadowview http://www.bealenet.com ------------------------------ Message: 5 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hello everyone I will be going to southern Spain for two weeks, during which time I would like to observe Drosophyllum lusitanicum in the wild, for research. If anyone knows of any sites and could privately e-mail me, I'd be grateful. Cheers, Amori Watanabe ------------------------------ Message: 6 To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Message-ID: <20050623132425.92342.qmail@web54108.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 oh how i envy you. ever since i grew a drosophyllum i am just amazed by what awesome plants they are. they are no typical 'sundew'. they get huge and reak of honey when the sun hits them. they're really cool plants. --- Amaury Watanabe wrote: > Hello everyone > I will be going to southern Spain for two weeks, > during which time I would > like to observe Drosophyllum lusitanicum in the > wild, for research. If > anyone knows of any sites and could privately e-mail > me, I'd be grateful. > > Cheers, > > Amori Watanabe > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ------------------------------ Message: 7 To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Message-ID: <20050623141534.53793.qmail@web54105.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 see if theres any evidence of where to go at this link http://bestcarnivorousplants.com/Drosophyllum_lusitanicum.htm --- Amaury Watanabe wrote: > Hello everyone > I will be going to southern Spain for two weeks, > during which time I would > like to observe Drosophyllum lusitanicum in the > wild, for research. If > anyone knows of any sites and could privately e-mail > me, I'd be grateful. > > Cheers, > > Amori Watanabe > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com End of Cp Digest, Vol 25, Issue 23 ********************************** ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Thu Jun 23 13:59:59 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: Aristolochia Hey Everyone, Just got back rom my trip to the West Coast. This is porbibly one of a few posts today. anyway Barry explained exactly what happens with this plant and thus solved the mistery. Tre ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Thu Jun 23 14:33:22 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: spread of Cps Well Cps must be anchient if it is true that Heliamphora are the most primitive pitchers then I certainly see no reason why the plants could not be spread from South America to Austrialia via land since the climate was much different. At least in one point in history the Sierra Desert was a tropical rainforest so it certainly is possible. Tre Hello Ivan!! I'm sorry to hear about your Dad's health problems!! >My D. meristocaulis are growing fabulously and look like they could start to flower any time now. Send us pictures!!! :):) >About the sea water experiment: How did a pygmy sundew get to Brazil? It was Jan Schlauer who first suggested that D. burmannii/sessilifolia may have crossed the Atlantic from Africa to brazil via rafting through what is known as the Columbus Route Current. A number of other plants are believed to have been transported this way. I tested the theory by soaking seed capsules of D. anglica in sea water for 4 weeks. The seed germinated normally. I used D. anglica because this species may have been similarly transported to Hawaii from California as some other plants have. I'm confident D. burmannii could survive such transport as well. Your witness of D. capillaris and D. intermedia on a beach in Brazil makes it all the more credible Fernando. Not only D.intermedia and D.capillaris, but also D.brevifolia is abundant along the coastal areas of Brazil, in habitats called "restingas". As for D.sessilifolia, although it is widespread along central S.America, it is also found in restingas along the NE coast of Brazil. This helps support your sea route hypothesis, showing a possible entry route used by D.sessilifolia to colonize S.America. >I can believe a pygmy sundew could have crossed the Atlantic to give rise to D. meristocaulis. What does everyone else think? I'm not sure we can say so clearly that a pygmy crossed from Australia to S.America using Africa as a jump point, or even across the Pacific Ocean. First of all, we don't know what the common ancestor of pygmies and D.meristocaulis was like. Maybe pygmies have a more recent common ancestor with the petiolaris complex. Either way, I think it's a very ancient lineage. Maybe so ancient that there were even no oceans to cross! Really, when did Gondwana separate? And then there's D.stenopetala and D.uniflora (the former in NZ and the latter in S S.America). These closely related species suggest a possible Antarctican migration route from NZ to S.America or vice-versa during periods of warmer climates. Could a D.meristocaulis ancestor have followed a similar route from Australia to S.America, maybe even helped by a closer proximity of continents millions of years ago? Last of all, there's D.regia and D.arcturi, which are apparently more closely related to each other than to any other Drosera species. Could a common ancestor have migrated through Antarctica from Africa to Australia/ NZ or vice-versa? Speculations upon speculations... I think we'll never know when, how, or what really happened... Take Care, Fernando Rivadavia Sao Paulo, Brazil ################### From: mpurvis at tampabay.rr.com (Michael Purvis) Date: Thu Jun 23 15:03:41 2005 Subject: [CP] Dead Drosera capensis? Weird thing... my "red form" D. capensis is doing great... the little "typical form" seedlings that sprouted in my flytrap pots are growing like crazy... but the main D. capensis "typical form" plant that I ordered has evidently died. I say "evidently" because, while the leaves have all withered & turned brown, the central growth point still has a bit of color to it. Is this some kind of weird dormancy issue or something that I'm not aware of? Mike http://www.cafepress.com/viciousplants ################### From: mpurvis at tampabay.rr.com (Michael Purvis) Date: Thu Jun 23 15:35:39 2005 Subject: [CP] Toppling Sarracenia Another difficulty I'm having is with my tall Sarracenia plants... especially the S. x 'Judith Hindle'... the pitchers topple over after a heavy rain, and never seem to be able to return to an upright position after the water drains/evaporates. Is there something I can do to correct this, or is it best just left alone? ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Thu Jun 23 15:38:29 2005 Subject: [CP] Toppling Sarracenia we're getting a TON of rain down here too. (homestead) the crap has been beaten out of my drosera 'marston dragon' by this much rain. i look forward to at least a little sun even if it makes the mosquitos go nuts for the sake of my plants. its been soo dark lately too from all the storms. --- Michael Purvis wrote: > Another difficulty I'm having is with my tall > Sarracenia plants... > especially the S. x 'Judith Hindle'... the pitchers > topple over after a > heavy rain, and never seem to be able to return to > an upright position after > the water drains/evaporates. Is there something I > can do to correct this, > or is it best just left alone? > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: mpurvis at tampabay.rr.com (Michael Purvis) Date: Thu Jun 23 15:38:49 2005 Subject: [CP] Drosera Binata Survived The Winter In My Bog I have a couple of D. binata in a minibog, and they keep getting their leaves pounded into the soil by each heavy rain. Do you have a problem with that also? My soil mix is the standard 50% spaghnum peat/ 50% sand. Mike http://www.cafepress.com/viciousplants ----- Original Message ----- > Greetings all, > > In checking out my bog this last weekend, I had the pleasant surprise of > finding that a drosera binata 'T-Form' specimen that I had in my bog had > successfully overwintered and is now growing vigorously. It appears to be > growing from the original growth crown and not from the roots. > ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Thu Jun 23 15:41:04 2005 Subject: [CP] Dead Drosera capensis? i brought mine inside because either the warmer conditions or the rain was getting to it. capensis likes cooler conditions. it grows like crazy in socal. here you need to keep it indoors perhaps. --- Michael Purvis wrote: > Weird thing... my "red form" D. capensis is doing > great... the little > "typical form" seedlings that sprouted in my flytrap > pots are growing like > crazy... but the main D. capensis "typical form" > plant that I ordered has > evidently died. > > I say "evidently" because, while the leaves have > all withered & turned > brown, the central growth point still has a bit of > color to it. Is this some > kind of weird dormancy issue or something that I'm > not aware of? > > > Mike > > http://www.cafepress.com/viciousplants > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Thu Jun 23 16:01:25 2005 Subject: [CP] Help wormen eating my pings Some inch-worm/caterpiller like thing(s) ate a huge number of my mexican pings during my vacation. I think all will survive but I now only have two plants of P. sharpii left (from the 20 or so I getminated). I found one and killed it (the wormen) and "drowned" th plants for an hour each. Do you think the wormen are still alive and what can I do to kill them? Tre ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Thu Jun 23 17:45:36 2005 Subject: [CP] Stop dog from eating CP? One of my dogs chewed off some of my pitcher leaves of my plants,what can I use so the dogs avoid them? Wolf ################### From: mpurvis at tampabay.rr.com (Michael Purvis) Date: Thu Jun 23 17:50:37 2005 Subject: [CP] Dead Drosera capensis? It's weird that ONLY that one capensis had the problem... all the rest are doing great! The local crane fly population hates me, though.... :) ----- Original Message ----- To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 6:40 PM >i brought mine inside because either the warmer > conditions or the rain was getting to it. capensis > likes cooler conditions. it grows like crazy in socal. > here you need to keep it indoors perhaps. > > --- Michael Purvis wrote: > >> Weird thing... my "red form" D. capensis is doing >> great... the little >> "typical form" seedlings that sprouted in my flytrap >> pots are growing like >> crazy... but the main D. capensis "typical form" >> plant that I ordered has >> evidently died. >> >> I say "evidently" because, while the leaves have >> all withered & turned >> brown, the central growth point still has a bit of >> color to it. Is this some >> kind of weird dormancy issue or something that I'm >> not aware of? >> >> >> Mike >> >> http://www.cafepress.com/viciousplants >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Cp mailing list >> Cp@omnisterra.com >> > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: sardonus at yahoo.com (Hamish McKellar) Date: Thu Jun 23 18:31:21 2005 Subject: [CP] Dead Drosera capensis? I'm having trouble coming to terms with the concept of D. capensis dying... I wish someone could convey the message to the increasing pestilence of the little blighters who keep carpeting every square centimetre of soil within a ten metre radius of their current occupation zone. Hamish --- Michael Purvis wrote: > It's weird that ONLY that one capensis had the > problem... all the rest are > doing great! The local crane fly population hates > me, though.... :) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Hind" > To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" > > Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 6:40 PM > Subject: Re: [CP] Dead Drosera capensis? > > > >i brought mine inside because either the warmer > > conditions or the rain was getting to it. capensis > > likes cooler conditions. it grows like crazy in > socal. > > here you need to keep it indoors perhaps. > > > > --- Michael Purvis > wrote: > > > >> Weird thing... my "red form" D. capensis is > doing > >> great... the little > >> "typical form" seedlings that sprouted in my > flytrap > >> pots are growing like > >> crazy... but the main D. capensis "typical form" > >> plant that I ordered has > >> evidently died. > >> > >> I say "evidently" because, while the leaves have > >> all withered & turned > >> brown, the central growth point still has a bit > of > >> color to it. Is this some > >> kind of weird dormancy issue or something that > I'm > >> not aware of? > >> > >> > >> Mike > >> > >> http://www.cafepress.com/viciousplants > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Cp mailing list > >> Cp@omnisterra.com > >> > > > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cp mailing list > > Cp@omnisterra.com > > > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ################### From: jan.schlauer at uni-tuebingen.de (Priv.-Doz. Dr. Jan Schlauer) Date: Fri Jun 24 03:00:19 2005 Subject: [CP] spread of Cps Dear Tre, > Well Cps must be anchient if it is true that Heliamphora are the most > primitive pitchers Hmm, the original message was about sundews, which are not closely related to Sarraceniaceae (belonging to different subclass). Cps are not a group defined by common ancestry (well, all are by definition plants). In several respects _Heliamphora_ shows derived traits in floral morphology (as compared to the more "primitive" _Darlingtonia_), and genetical investigations place _Darlingtonia_ at the base of the family. > then I certainly see no reason why the plants could not be spread from > South America to Austrialia via land since the climate was much > different. The possibility of long distance dispersal across the oceans cannot be excluded, either. Anyway, there is no trace of (indigenous) Sarraceniaceae in Australia, so this discussion is fairly theoretical. Returning to the sundews, in the absence of fossil evidence I would assume the geographical origin of any plant group where the largest diversity at the highest rank within the group is found (cf. my paper on global cp diversity in CPN and my talk at the Tokyo conference). If the group is _Drosera_, the highest rank within the group is subgenus. The largest number of subgenera is found in Australia. So it would appear more likely a sundew came to S America from Australia than the other way round. Even if we assumed _D. meristocaulis_ was a member of a pygmy sundew section (Bryastrum or Lamprolepis), the (recent) species diversity of these sections (combined) would be higher in Australia than in S America, with the same consequences for the most likely migration route. Within Thelocalyx (_D. burmannii & sessilifolia_) the situation is less clear. Kind regards Jan ################### From: n9lya at blueriver.net (Jerry) Date: Fri Jun 24 03:13:11 2005 Subject: [CP] Stop dog from eating CP? Hi Wolf, I have seen at some better greenhouse's Animal repellant... You may look at your local greenhouse and as if they have it or if they can order you some... If not let me know I will make a trip up to ours and as and try to help you obtain some... Hang in there... Have a nice day.. Jerry Kutche... New to this list.. Member ICPS. ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 7:44 PM > One of my dogs chewed off some of my pitcher leaves of my plants,what can > I use so the dogs avoid them? > > Wolf > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > ################### From: DougWitkowski at netscape.net (DougWitkowski@netscape.net) Date: Fri Jun 24 05:52:17 2005 Subject: [CP] Toppling Sarracenia I have the same problem with this hybrid. There is little you can do other than stake them up with a metal ring. Remember that this hybrid is 'un-natural' and would not likely survive well in nature. I have several S. Purpurea X ??? crosses that have the same trouble. They were not meant to have uncovered gaping mouths if they stand up tall...... Doug Witkowski Dripping Springs, TX "Michael Purvis" wrote: > Another difficulty I'm having is with my tall Sarracenia plants... >especially the S. x 'Judith Hindle'... the pitchers topple over after a >heavy rain, and never seem to be able to return to an upright position after >the water drains/evaporates. ?Is there something I can do to correct this, >or is it best just left alone? > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: mzevh at wish.net (Erica & Martin) Date: Fri Jun 24 06:43:31 2005 Subject: [CP] Digital Camera's Hi everyone, To add some more choice to the digital cameras: I have a Olympus C5060WZ since last August, and I'm very content with the results. This is a camera which is samller than the digital SLR's but larger than most mini/compact size camera's. Furthermore it has a macro and supermacro mode, in the latter you ca come as close as 3 cm from your subject! The only negative point is that the AF sometimes has some difficulties in the macro or supermacro mode, but in this case you can switch to manual focus. Well, everyone has to choose for theirselves, but you can get some more info on www.dcresource.com , but there are more sites like this. kind regards, Martin Zevenbergen ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Fri Jun 24 06:47:08 2005 Subject: [CP] Problems and solutions Hey Everyone, Here are a few topics: First off when I got back I noticed my mex. ping collection had been decimated by something eating the leaves. Well after a few drownings of the pings and a 6 hour watch I finnally found out what it was. A brown caterpiller with black markings had been chewing up the plants. I have no idea where it came from since my pings are all inside. It can sit on the leaves which drewl as the ping and caterpiller eat eachother. Obviously, after seeing the state of my pings, this caterpiller is no longer alive. This caterpiller lookeed basically like fecal matter in coloration and shape. Does anyone have any idea what it could be from? Oh an what are the chances that P. 'Tina' will grow another growthpoint as mine has been decimated? Cinimmon works well on fungi for sarrs but not Drosera. Some chemical in the cinimmon kills the Drosera or in the case of D x. hybrida (for me at least) triggers it to go into dormancy. Any solutions to this? In a darker wetter area of a bog I noticed a dark green "jelly/jello" I think it is an alge. How do I get rid of it? Tre ################### From: smaietta at aabga.org (Maietta) Date: Fri Jun 24 06:51:09 2005 Subject: [CP] Thank you for contacting AABGA. Thank you for contacting AABGA. I am currently out of the office at the 2005 AABGA Annual Meeting in Chicago. All messages will be responded to upon my return. Have a great day! Sarah Sarah Maietta Office Manager AABGA 100 West 10th Street, Suite 614 Wilmington, DE 19801 302-655-7100, ext. 11 302-655-8100 fax ################### From: mpurvis at tampabay.rr.com (Michael Purvis) Date: Fri Jun 24 07:16:18 2005 Subject: [CP] Dead Drosera capensis? Heh... exactly my point. The one I actually PAID for died, while all the little "freebies" keep popping up EVERYWHERE! Mike http://www.cafepress.com/viciousplants ----- Original Message ----- To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 9:31 PM > I'm having trouble coming to terms with the concept of > D. capensis dying... I wish someone could convey the > message to the increasing pestilence of the little > blighters who keep carpeting every square centimetre > of soil within a ten metre radius of their current > occupation zone. > > Hamish > > --- Michael Purvis wrote: > >> It's weird that ONLY that one capensis had the >> problem... all the rest are >> doing great! The local crane fly population hates >> me, though.... :) >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Chris Hind" >> To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" >> >> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 6:40 PM >> Subject: Re: [CP] Dead Drosera capensis? >> >> >> >i brought mine inside because either the warmer >> > conditions or the rain was getting to it. capensis >> > likes cooler conditions. it grows like crazy in >> socal. >> > here you need to keep it indoors perhaps. >> > >> > --- Michael Purvis >> wrote: >> > >> >> Weird thing... my "red form" D. capensis is >> doing >> >> great... the little >> >> "typical form" seedlings that sprouted in my >> flytrap >> >> pots are growing like >> >> crazy... but the main D. capensis "typical form" >> >> plant that I ordered has >> >> evidently died. >> >> >> >> I say "evidently" because, while the leaves have >> >> all withered & turned >> >> brown, the central growth point still has a bit >> of >> >> color to it. Is this some >> >> kind of weird dormancy issue or something that >> I'm >> >> not aware of? >> >> >> >> >> >> Mike >> >> >> >> http://www.cafepress.com/viciousplants >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Cp mailing list >> >> Cp@omnisterra.com >> >> >> > >> > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com >> >> >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Cp mailing list >> > Cp@omnisterra.com >> > >> > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Cp mailing list >> Cp@omnisterra.com >> > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com >> > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with > voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Fri Jun 24 11:27:05 2005 Subject: [CP] Dead Drosera capensis? are the "freebies" sprouting in the same pot as the original plant? if so, they're probably sprouting from the roots. the growth point will eventually die back or decrease growth, usually after flowering. at that point you can just whack away at the brown dead stuff. in about a month or two, you'll get a pot full of babies that will soon choke the pot. oddly, mine doesn't produce all that much seed, but when it does, i get plants in all my pots. people call them weeds, but i've seen uglier, less desirable weeds. i doubt that they compete with taller p[lants, but for smaller Drosera and VFTs, you'll want to remove the strays since, although they don't compete for resources drawn from the roots, they can snatch or deter insects that your other plants could feed on. Gary Kong "Michael Purvis" wrote: > Heh... exactly my point. The one I actually PAID for died, while all the >little "freebies" keep popping up EVERYWHERE! > > >Mike > >http://www.cafepress.com/viciousplants > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Hamish McKellar" >To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" >Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 9:31 PM >Subject: Re: [CP] Dead Drosera capensis? > > >> I'm having trouble coming to terms with the concept of >> D. capensis dying... I wish someone could convey the >> message to the increasing pestilence of the little >> blighters who keep carpeting every square centimetre >> of soil within a ten metre radius of their current >> occupation zone. >> >> Hamish >> >> --- Michael Purvis wrote: >> >>> It's weird that ONLY that one capensis had the >>> problem... all the rest are >>> doing great! The local crane fly population hates >>> me, though.... :) >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Chris Hind" >>> To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 6:40 PM >>> Subject: Re: [CP] Dead Drosera capensis? >>> >>> >>> >i brought mine inside because either the warmer >>> > conditions or the rain was getting to it. capensis >>> > likes cooler conditions. it grows like crazy in >>> socal. >>> > here you need to keep it indoors perhaps. >>> > >>> > --- Michael Purvis >>> wrote: >>> > >>> >> Weird thing... my "red form" D. capensis is >>> doing >>> >> great... the little >>> >> "typical form" seedlings that sprouted in my >>> flytrap >>> >> pots are growing like >>> >> crazy... but the main D. capensis "typical form" >>> >> plant that I ordered has >>> >> evidently died. >>> >> >>> >> I say "evidently" because, while the leaves have >>> >> all withered & turned >>> >> brown, the central growth point still has a bit >>> of >>> >> color to it. Is this some >>> >> kind of weird dormancy issue or something that >>> I'm >>> >> not aware of? >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> Mike >>> >> >>> >> http://www.cafepress.com/viciousplants >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Cp mailing list >>> >> Cp@omnisterra.com >>> >> >>> > >>> >> http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Cp mailing list >>> > Cp@omnisterra.com >>> > >>> >> http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Cp mailing list >>> Cp@omnisterra.com >>> >> http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with >> voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Cp mailing list >> Cp@omnisterra.com >> http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: smaietta at aabga.org (Maietta) Date: Fri Jun 24 12:04:05 2005 Subject: [CP] Thank you for contacting AABGA. Thank you for contacting AABGA. I am currently out of the office at the 2005 AABGA Annual Meeting in Chicago. All messages will be responded to upon my return. Have a great day! Sarah Sarah Maietta Office Manager AABGA 100 West 10th Street, Suite 614 Wilmington, DE 19801 302-655-7100, ext. 11 302-655-8100 fax ################### From: wwbielby at comcast.net (Weston Bielby) Date: Fri Jun 24 12:04:05 2005 Subject: [CP] Drosera binata in Italy? After thirty five years as a northern California boy, I have relocated to Italy, and am having a wonderful time, but missing my plants and a lot of friends. (Also margaritas, San Francisco--etc., but I'll try to stay on target here). I have been able to find a very limited supply of tiny 4 Euro pot CPs (Drosera, Sars, Dionaea), and a couple of neps from the nearby green houses, but nothing else. If any nearby list members have plants to sell, I would be happy to hear from you off list. I would particularly like to get some of the branched Drosera (T-form, Giant--anything), as the capensis is going crazy in my windowsills, and any of the bulbous vine types or stand- up droseras. Forgive my illiteracy about the names. My copy of Savage Garden is buried in a packing box that I won't see for months yet. I am in Anghiari, in Tuscany--if any list members are nearby, let me know. Weston Bielby wwbielby@comcast.net ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Fri Jun 24 12:30:45 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Stop dog from eating CP? (Jerry) Thanks Jerry! I would have to check online because there really is no nurseries close by expect for HomeDepot and other stores,and I nevered seen them sell any of them. Wonder how well they work? I just checked my pitcher plants again today,and dam more of my new pitchers of the S. purpurea species were ripped off. I geting very ticked off now! None of my cp and other native plants are safe from even my dogs or birds. Mainly my dogs. Wolf ################### From: petiolarissean at yahoo.com (Sean Samia) Date: Fri Jun 24 12:32:26 2005 Subject: [CP] Spread of C.P. First of all D.Banksii is the plant most closely related to the Petiolaris Complex.Second,don,t group plants by looks you will be very disappointed.For D.capillaris,D.Intermedia,D.Brevifolia were more likly spread via Hurricane and or Birds.Concerning D.Anglica definite Birds,Why?Microscopic Drosera seed floating 3000 miles in open sea runs into Hawaii.That's like a needle in a hay stack.But Birds migrating stop in Hawaii and what do they look for food,rest.(Bog,Marsh,Wetland).Petiolarissean ################### From: wildlifegardener at sbcglobal.net (WildLifeGardener) Date: Fri Jun 24 12:39:31 2005 Subject: [CP] I would be interested in purchasing D. linearis, P. vulgaris, My e-mail address is listed above. I would like to purchase 2 or 3 each of D. linearis, P. vulgaris, & U. macrorhiza. I am not in a position to acccept gifts of free plants or to trade as I have basically only one plant of everything listed on my Grow List other than seedlings. If there is anyone out there who has these plants who might feel uncomfortable selling them, I would be more than happy to make an appropriate donation to either the ICPS or to Meadowview Biological Research Station. ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Fri Jun 24 13:30:00 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: history of Cps (Drosera) Sorry Jan I was consfuesd while writting. What I meant to come across as Heliamphora (or as you state Darlingtonia) are very different from say other Pitcher plants. So if the modern interpetration of evolution is true for them then it is highly likely that Cps of some form existed when the contents were all attached. Since I have not had the time, yet, to study Drosera in an evolutionary sense I could not provide (what I thought) was the oldest species or rather what the oldest species probibly looked like. My point was that when the contents were together it is possible very primitive forms of Carnivorous Plants were spread throughout. These would most likely be like modern Drosera and/or Utricularia since these are the most wide spread. I don't doubt that D. sessifolia or whatever individual species was not spread during this era because Australia could have hardly been connected to the other continents long enough for this to occur. This observation is based on: Birds took up mammels activitives in Australia (being the main preditors, herbivores, etc.) But most of these are now extinct. But more in our relm: Genlisea occurs in Africa and South America only. Where as Pinguicula occurs everywhere except Australia (I exclude Antartica for obvious reasons). Nepenthes occurs in many remote islands and Asia along with Australia but if it truely was not always native to Australia (as some have commented) then Seed dispersal is viable. I on the other hand beleve it may well be native to Australia and the basic Nepenthes originated when all those Islands were pressed between Australia and Asia and hence Nepenthes is so wide spread. So now we must ask ourselves how do similar species of Drosera occur in both Australia and South America. As well as North America and South America. Well the latter cannot be hard to answer. Wind, vegitative rafts, etc are all viable answers. And if we follow the historical flow patters of the gulf of Mexico I think we will find that D. capillaris, D. brevifolia, etc (from North America) we send on vegitative rafts to South America. For plants like D. sessifolia and D. burmanni which are similar I as of yet have no idea. Perhaps one day I will strike on a theory that makes sense. Tre ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Fri Jun 24 14:08:21 2005 Subject: [CP] spread of Cps Not to be the village idiot arguing with the town wise man here (probably more like the town wisenheimer arguing with the town wise man, anyway) but could not a group of plants have originated in one locale, colonized another, more appealing locale, thus generating an explosion of diversity? This would then leave a relic set of plants behind in the geographical origin of the group, while the larger diversity prospers in the new locale. I'm quite a bit behind in my CPN reading (like 15 years!) so perhaps you covered this in your paper..... In a message dated 6/24/2005 3:00:41 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, jan.schlauer@uni-tuebingen.de writes: Returning to the sundews, in the absence of fossil evidence I would assume the geographical origin of any plant group where the largest diversity at the highest rank within the group is found (cf. my paper on global cp diversity in CPN and my talk at the Tokyo conference). If the group is _Drosera_, the highest rank within the group is subgenus. The largest number of subgenera is found in Australia. So it would appear more likely a sundew came to S America from Australia than the other way round. TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Fri Jun 24 14:13:45 2005 Subject: [CP] Drosera binata in Italy? And he's complaining about missing margaritas and San Francisco.... The grass is always greener! Howzabout if you just offer a free place for us to stay and a short tour of the area in exchange for some free CPs! In a message dated 6/24/2005 12:04:28 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, wwbielby@comcast.net writes: I am in Anghiari, in Tuscany-- TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Fri Jun 24 14:25:30 2005 Subject: [CP] some terrarium questions I know this is a very exhausted subject but I have a couple of questions that were probibly previously addressed but I don't know where. 1) How would I facilitate airmovement inside a 10 gallon terrarium? 2) How many watts of light do I need (I currently have 30 with 15 full spectrum). Would tinfoil or a mirror significantly increase the amount of light the plants are getting (In 10 gallons). BTW I am growing tuberous Drosera, a Ceph, and probibly Heliamphora and Brocchina later. U. reniformis is also present. ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Fri Jun 24 14:50:41 2005 Subject: [CP] Dead Drosera capensis? Dear Mike and Gary, It sounds like Mike's _Drosera capensis_ got stressed and did go into its semi-dormancy. They will also do this when it gets too hot. Yeah, even in the same pot, some plants receive slightly different conditions from their neighbors. One will go dormant and the next will just look pale for awhile... You can check this by partially removing the plant from the soil and gently checking to see if the roots and stem are still firm. If so, they are probably not dead and just dormant. Just place the plant and soil back in the pot and it should start growing again soon. If you can still see a living bud, you don't have to check, it sounds OK to me. It is easier for a larger plant to become stressed when moved, or repotted. By the time they are flowering size, they have put down two or three roots. When facing adverse conditions, they can abort or afford to lose the apical meristem (main growing bud, where the new leaves grow from) and each root will send up a new shoot within a few weeks. Dave Evans New Jersey www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of Gary Kong Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 2:27 PM To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group are the "freebies" sprouting in the same pot as the original plant? if so, they're probably sprouting from the roots. the growth point will eventually die back or decrease growth, usually after flowering. at that point you can just whack away at the brown dead stuff. in about a month or two, you'll get a pot full of babies that will soon choke the pot. Oddly, mine doesn't produce all that much seed, but when it does, I get plants in all my pots. people call them weeds, but I've seen uglier, less desirable weeds. I doubt that they compete with taller plants, but for smaller Drosera and VFTs, you'll want to remove the strays since, although they don't compete for resources drawn from the roots, they can snatch or deter insects that your other plants could feed on. Gary Kong "Michael Purvis" wrote: > Heh... exactly my point. The one I actually PAID for died, while all the >little "freebies" keep popping up EVERYWHERE! > > >Mike ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Fri Jun 24 15:18:59 2005 Subject: [CP] Spread of C.P. Dear Sean, Yeah, I think the bird theory for transport of _Drosera anglica_ is strong. While I doubt they made the journey inside the birds, I do think some seed made it over to Hawaii on migrating birds. On their feet, probably. However, I doubt this would work for _Sarracenia_ or _Dionaea_ since these species have much larger seed and would be shed from the bird's bodies that much faster, perhaps a local vector for colonization. Each species with disjunctive populations *could* have a separate mechanism for transport, but likely some species shared the same pathways as they appeared. Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of Sean Samia Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 3:32 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com First of all D. banksii is the plant most closely related to the Petiolaris Complex.Second,don,t group plants by looks you will be very disappointed. For D.capillaris,D.Intermedia,D.Brevifolia were more likely spread via Hurricane and or Birds. Concerning D.Anglica definite Birds,Why?Microscopic Drosera seed floating 3000 miles in open sea runs into Hawaii. That's like a needle in a hay stack. But Birds migrating stop in Hawaii and what do they look for food, rest.(Bog, Marsh, and Wetland).Petiolarissean ################### From: mpurvis at tampabay.rr.com (Michael Purvis) Date: Fri Jun 24 15:27:56 2005 Subject: [CP] Dead Drosera capensis? Nope, actually the sprouts are all in my 2 Dionaea pots. I also had 2 D. binata seedlings sprout in the Red Dragon flytrap's pot... I almost ripped one up thinking it was debris, then looked closer and saw the tiny "t-form" leaf. ----- Original Message ----- To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 2:26 PM > are the "freebies" sprouting in the same pot as the original plant? if > so, they're probably sprouting from the roots. the growth point will > eventually die back or decrease growth, usually after flowering. at that > point you can just whack away at the brown dead stuff. in about a month > or two, you'll get a pot full of babies that will soon choke the pot. > > oddly, mine doesn't produce all that much seed, but when it does, i get > plants in all my pots. people call them weeds, but i've seen uglier, less > desirable weeds. i doubt that they compete with taller p[lants, but for > smaller Drosera and VFTs, you'll want to remove the strays since, although > they don't compete for resources drawn from the roots, they can snatch or > deter insects that your other plants could feed on. > > Gary Kong > > "Michael Purvis" wrote: > >> Heh... exactly my point. The one I actually PAID for died, while all the >>little "freebies" keep popping up EVERYWHERE! >> >> >>Mike >> >>http://www.cafepress.com/viciousplants >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Hamish McKellar" >>To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" >>Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 9:31 PM >>Subject: Re: [CP] Dead Drosera capensis? >> >> >>> I'm having trouble coming to terms with the concept of >>> D. capensis dying... I wish someone could convey the >>> message to the increasing pestilence of the little >>> blighters who keep carpeting every square centimetre >>> of soil within a ten metre radius of their current >>> occupation zone. >>> >>> Hamish >>> >>> --- Michael Purvis wrote: >>> >>>> It's weird that ONLY that one capensis had the >>>> problem... all the rest are >>>> doing great! The local crane fly population hates >>>> me, though.... :) >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Chris Hind" >>>> To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" >>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 6:40 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [CP] Dead Drosera capensis? >>>> >>>> >>>> >i brought mine inside because either the warmer >>>> > conditions or the rain was getting to it. capensis >>>> > likes cooler conditions. it grows like crazy in >>>> socal. >>>> > here you need to keep it indoors perhaps. >>>> > >>>> > --- Michael Purvis >>>> wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> Weird thing... my "red form" D. capensis is >>>> doing >>>> >> great... the little >>>> >> "typical form" seedlings that sprouted in my >>>> flytrap >>>> >> pots are growing like >>>> >> crazy... but the main D. capensis "typical form" >>>> >> plant that I ordered has >>>> >> evidently died. >>>> >> >>>> >> I say "evidently" because, while the leaves have >>>> >> all withered & turned >>>> >> brown, the central growth point still has a bit >>>> of >>>> >> color to it. Is this some >>>> >> kind of weird dormancy issue or something that >>>> I'm >>>> >> not aware of? >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Mike >>>> >> >>>> >> http://www.cafepress.com/viciousplants >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> Cp mailing list >>>> >> Cp@omnisterra.com >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >>> http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Cp mailing list >>>> > Cp@omnisterra.com >>>> > >>>> >>> http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Cp mailing list >>>> Cp@omnisterra.com >>>> >>> http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ___________________________________________________________ >>> Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with >>> voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Cp mailing list >>> Cp@omnisterra.com >>> http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Cp mailing list >>Cp@omnisterra.com >>http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com >> > > > -- > San Francisco, CA > World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Switch to Netscape Internet Service. > As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at > http://isp.netscape.com/register > > Netscape. Just the Net You Need. > > New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer > Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. > Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: mpurvis at tampabay.rr.com (Michael Purvis) Date: Fri Jun 24 15:32:18 2005 Subject: [CP] Dead Drosera capensis? Thanks, Dave. I'm planning on just letting it be. It's not like I'm doing anything else with that pot anyway.... :) Maybe it didn't like all of the rain we've gotten lately. On the other hand, it always did seem to be kinda slow compared to the red form, even when I first got it back in March. It never flowered either, whereas the red has sent up 2 stalks already. Mike http://www.cafepress.com/viciousplants ----- Original Message ----- To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 5:50 PM Dear Mike and Gary, It sounds like Mike's _Drosera capensis_ got stressed and did go into its semi-dormancy. They will also do this when it gets too hot. Yeah, even in the same pot, some plants receive slightly different conditions from their neighbors. One will go dormant and the next will just look pale for awhile... You can check this by partially removing the plant from the soil and gently checking to see if the roots and stem are still firm. If so, they are probably not dead and just dormant. Just place the plant and soil back in the pot and it should start growing again soon. If you can still see a living bud, you don't have to check, it sounds OK to me. It is easier for a larger plant to become stressed when moved, or repotted. By the time they are flowering size, they have put down two or three roots. When facing adverse conditions, they can abort or afford to lose the apical meristem (main growing bud, where the new leaves grow from) and each root will send up a new shoot within a few weeks. Dave Evans New Jersey www.Dangerousplants.com ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Fri Jun 24 15:47:15 2005 Subject: [CP] Dead Drosera capensis? Hi Mike, If was always unhappy, maybe it does need a repotting into new soil... Are all the _D. capensis_ in the same soil? If so, repotting would probably have no effect... Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of Michael Purvis Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 6:33 PM To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Thanks, Dave. I'm planning on just letting it be. It's not like I'm doing anything else with that pot anyway.... :) Maybe it didn't like all of the rain we've gotten lately. On the other hand, it always did seem to be kinda slow compared to the red form, even when I first got it back in March. It never flowered either, whereas the red has sent up 2 stalks already. Mike http://www.cafepress.com/viciousplants ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Fri Jun 24 16:09:56 2005 Subject: [CP] Darlingtonia in the wild Of the 4 or so Darlingtonia sites I saw all were the same. The sites were predomenantly streams (about 6 inches wide) with serpintine (is that right?) soil on the sides of mountains littlered with rocks and bolders. Another 6 inches consisted of the stream bank for flood times. grasses usually littered the dry(er) areas and P. macorensis filled gaps between Darlingtonia (at one site). The Darlingtonia were usually growing in the stream or with-in 3 inches of it and normally between large rocks (which may have caught the seed). Clones were anywhere from dark red to green (usually green even though not many trees were over head). These clones were anywhere from 3 inches to 3 feet tall. Many "runners" had sprung up all over the place. In general (a couple exceptions undoubtedly) any runners that were over 3 inches from the streams or plants growing where the streams no longer ran were dead. No growth was present. Of course many plants still seemed to be sending up their spring growth but these plants were obviously and totaly dead. Only a few plants flowered on these streams (and I found some seed from last year, which i very different from Sarr. seed). Another area where Darlingtonia grew was in the seepage bogs at the bottom of these streams (or more likely part way down) where they covered these bogs en masse and many flowers and new leaves were present. Live Sphagnum commonly grew in these bogs. I don't beleve so many different genets were present based on the fact that many appeared to be the same height, coloration and same features. (note: not all plants had a "cobra-appendage" but I beleve these may have been older pitchers). Many plants were obviously related in these seepage bogs and I doubt maore then a few clones inhabit each bog. The streams on the other hand were full of distinct clones. These seepage bogs were usually shaded at least partially and had very slow moving water. So my suggestions for Darlingtonia after this would be to put them in the middle of a cool (shallow) stream ancored by rocks. and dug in. Man-made would probibly be best as you could control the amount of minerals (although Darlingtonia can take toxic levels). The streams were probibly 50-55 degrees (based on sticking my hand in the water). If you could rig a free-on (someone please spell this for me) coil to the water near the top that would probibly do the trick. Tre ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Fri Jun 24 16:14:50 2005 Subject: [CP] some terrarium questions Dear Tre, I would only grow _Heliamphora_ and cuttings of other plants, like _Nepenthes_ in a ten gallon tank. Yes, taping foil to outside of the tank to reflect the light will dramatically increase the light the plants receive. If the tank is shut, you'll need a fan. Most rot due to humidity, unless you get a special fan made for this purpose. If it is open, like how I use tanks, you should be getting a fair amount of air-exchange. To save money on lighting and to maximize use of the lighting, I would use 2 four foot shop lights over four ten gallon tanks, each tank is one foot wide, so two double tube shop lights would cast bright light into the two tanks in the middle for sundews and _Heliamphora_ while the two tanks on the ends could be for lower light plants like butterworts and some _Utricularia_ species. Not the prettiest set up but it would work well. A similar, but more attractive set up would be to use one double tube light over two tanks set up end-to-end. Just foil the back sides of both tanks and the sides at the ends. The four foot lights use the least expensive tubes, so you'll get more light for your dollar. Also, four long tubes convert watts used into light more efficiently than shorter tubes. Six and Eight foot tubes are like-wise even more efficient, but usually only commercial operations need to use such large lights. Brocchinia is a Sarracenia-sized plant, only babies and juvenile plants will fit inside a small tank. I would not bother trying to keep this one in a tank, just keep the water tank on the plant filled and it will be fine outside. Mine are happy when I grow them like _Sarracenia_, though I allow the soil to go *slightly* drier now and then. Dave Evans www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of Tre Bond Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 5:25 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com I know this is a very exhausted subject but I have a couple of questions that were probably previously addressed but I don't know where. 1) How would I facilitate air movement inside a 10 gallon terrarium? 2) How many watts of light do I need (I currently have 30 with 15 full spectrum). Would tinfoil or a mirror significantly increase the amount of light the plants are getting (In 10 gallons). BTW I am growing tuberous Drosera, a Ceph, and probably Heliamphora and Brocchina later. U. reniformis is also present. ################### From: smaietta at aabga.org (Maietta) Date: Fri Jun 24 16:17:50 2005 Subject: [CP] Thank you for contacting AABGA. Thank you for contacting AABGA. I am currently out of the office at the 2005 AABGA Annual Meeting in Chicago. All messages will be responded to upon my return. Have a great day! Sarah Sarah Maietta Office Manager AABGA 100 West 10th Street, Suite 614 Wilmington, DE 19801 302-655-7100, ext. 11 302-655-8100 fax ################### From: bill at lifehouseproductions.com (Bill Matthews) Date: Fri Jun 24 17:29:27 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Stop dog from eating CP? There are two products pet shops have called 'Bitter Apple' and 'Bitter Lemon' that come in spray bottles. One is for plants, but I forget which one at the moment. You might want to give it a try. Several years ago we had a just insanely crazy Dalmation that loved to grab and chew everything he could jump up and pull off a table: tubes of oil paint, expensive $50.00 Red Sable watercolor brushes, markers, blankets, etc. He even ate half a bag of charcoal briquets once. What saved the day was the Bitter Apple. Just spritzed it on things and let it dry. Once they were in his mouth he made a funny goofy face and smacked his tongue trying to get the taste out. When he acted up, all we had to do was reach for the bottle and he calmed right down. We also used the stuff when our new dog was a puppy and was overactively play biting. Now she's great and a real squirrel hunter/killer too. Good Luck. Bill LifeHouse Productions | http://www.lifehouseproductions.com Phone/Fax: 203.265.1007 ################### From: n9lya at blueriver.net (Jerry) Date: Fri Jun 24 17:45:09 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Stop dog from eating CP? Hi I just have to share this story... In case it does not work.. hihi Lets take a trip in the way back machine... To When I was in the third grade. We had one studentthat would eat his pencil.. All of it.. Many many of them to the point the teacher was going nuts tryingto get one to last him thru one class session... So She picked up some spicy hot liquid to soak the pencils in before she passed them out... It was cinnimon flavored.. Really HOT ... She thought it would stop him... Within an hour everyone was chewing on their pencils.. Of course the trouble student continued to consume the pencils he was given.. So he was finally graduated to ink pens... Wonder what ever became of him.. Probably works for the DNR building Dams... Good luck.. Hope one of these sugestions that have been shared works for you... Jerry ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 7:30 PM > There are two products pet shops have called 'Bitter Apple' and 'Bitter > Lemon' that come in spray bottles. One is for plants, but I forget which > one at the moment. You might want to give it a try. > > Several years ago we had a just insanely crazy Dalmation that loved to > grab > and chew everything he could jump up and pull off a table: tubes of oil > paint, expensive $50.00 Red Sable watercolor brushes, markers, blankets, > etc. He even ate half a bag of charcoal briquets once. What saved the > day > was the Bitter Apple. Just spritzed it on things and let it dry. Once > they were in his mouth he made a funny goofy face and smacked his tongue > trying to get the taste out. When he acted up, all we had to do was reach > for the bottle and he calmed right down. > > We also used the stuff when our new dog was a puppy and was overactively > play biting. Now she's great and a real squirrel hunter/killer too. > > Good Luck. > > Bill > LifeHouse Productions | http://www.lifehouseproductions.com > Phone/Fax: 203.265.1007 > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > ################### From: mpurvis at tampabay.rr.com (Michael Purvis) Date: Fri Jun 24 17:47:12 2005 Subject: [CP] Dead Drosera capensis? Nope, not in the same soil. I'll give it a while & see what happens... if it's in a dormant stage due to stress of some sort, I'm kinda afraid to disturb the roots. ----- Original Message ----- To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 6:47 PM Hi Mike, If was always unhappy, maybe it does need a repotting into new soil... Are all the _D. capensis_ in the same soil? If so, repotting would probably have no effect... Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of Michael Purvis Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 6:33 PM To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Thanks, Dave. I'm planning on just letting it be. It's not like I'm doing anything else with that pot anyway.... :) Maybe it didn't like all of the rain we've gotten lately. On the other hand, it always did seem to be kinda slow compared to the red form, even when I first got it back in March. It never flowered either, whereas the red has sent up 2 stalks already. Mike http://www.cafepress.com/viciousplants _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: rrz7001 at humboldt.edu (Robert Ziemer) Date: Fri Jun 24 18:09:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Stop dog from eating CP? I am surprised that no one has yet suggested the use of a large stick to whack the dog with. Or perhaps a wire around the plant area connected to an electric fence charger. Or, a pellet gun. Oh well, it is a late Friday afternoon. ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (Dave Evans) Date: Fri Jun 24 18:14:29 2005 Subject: [CP] Dead Drosera capensis? Hi Mike, Plants are usually more tolerant of disturbance when they are dormant. Also, if the soil is what is stressing it... Anything else planted in the same soil? I friend of mine was trying out different soils for his plants, but while he was getting them grow, they were becoming stunted at the same time. After transplanting them back into normal CP soil, they started recovering, it took a couple of months before they all returned to vigor or died. In good conditions, _D. capensis_ is unstoppable. You can cut the plant up into inch long sections and each will grow into a new plant, though it could take awhile. If you really want to kill one, you need to place it in the drive way, run over it a couple of times and then let it dry out in the sun for three days to stop it from coming back :) Even then you can't be sure it's really dead... Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of Michael Purvis Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 8:48 PM To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Nope, not in the same soil. I'll give it a while & see what happens... if it's in a dormant stage due to stress of some sort, I'm kinda afraid to disturb the roots. ################### From: mpurvis at tampabay.rr.com (Michael Purvis) Date: Fri Jun 24 18:18:50 2005 Subject: [CP] Dead Drosera capensis? There's a terrestrial bladderwort in the same pot (hitchhiker, wasn't intended to be in there.. the thing is in practically ALL the pots I got in this order). I suppose it can't hurt to transplant it... I'll need to go buy more sand first. Mike http://www.cafepress.com/viciousplants ----- Original Message ----- To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 9:14 PM Hi Mike, Plants are usually more tolerant of disturbance when they are dormant. Also, if the soil is what is stressing it... Anything else planted in the same soil? I friend of mine was trying out different soils for his plants, but while he was getting them grow, they were becoming stunted at the same time. After transplanting them back into normal CP soil, they started recovering, it took a couple of months before they all returned to vigor or died. In good conditions, _D. capensis_ is unstoppable. You can cut the plant up into inch long sections and each will grow into a new plant, though it could take awhile. If you really want to kill one, you need to place it in the drive way, run over it a couple of times and then let it dry out in the sun for three days to stop it from coming back :) Even then you can't be sure it's really dead... Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of Michael Purvis Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 8:48 PM To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Nope, not in the same soil. I'll give it a while & see what happens... if it's in a dormant stage due to stress of some sort, I'm kinda afraid to disturb the roots. _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: Mormhammond at aol.com (Mormhammond@aol.com) Date: Sat Jun 25 05:23:47 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Digital Camera and "Toppling Sarracenias" I've just purchased a digital camera that I highly recommend. It's the Kodak Z740. Five mp,10x optical zoom and 3x digital, auto or fully manual, macro with lens point blank (one inch), much much more. Check it out at about $325-$380. I solved my "falling over Sars" by building a discrete framework over each clump or group of clumps and covering the frame with a dark green plastic mesh (fencing) with 2 inch holes. Your selection of materials will determine the eye appeal and how much it detracts from the total display. I set my grid at about 1/3 the height of the tallest pitcher. The supporting frame is made from 1/2 inch copper pipe which has weathered nicely. I have some frames made from #9 single strand fence wire and covered with poultry fencing. Both #blend in fine when things grow up/thicken up in the bogs. At any rate it looks a lot better than having those beautiful pitchers laying on the ground. ################### From: stephenwd at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Davis) Date: Sat Jun 25 06:45:27 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Digital Camera and "Toppling Sarracenias" Wish I'd gotten your email before I bought my Kodak 6mp 7430 camera. Overall I like the camera, but I've found that without manual focus your are going to have a hard time too often. I've used Manzanita branches to support the sars. It's not perfect, but it adds interest on its' own. Another possibility would be the twisted willow branches, or any other interesting and twisted branches. I like your grid idea, but I'm concerned about the copper pipe in acidic soil and how the plants would react to the added copper in the soil. Anyone know if copper would be a problem for the plants? Stephen Davis www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com Mormhammond@aol.com wrote: I've just purchased a digital camera that I highly recommend. It's the Kodak Z740. Five mp,10x optical zoom and 3x digital, auto or fully manual, macro with lens point blank (one inch), much much more. Check it out at about $325-$380. I solved my "falling over Sars" by building a discrete framework over each clump or group of clumps and covering the frame with a dark green plastic mesh (fencing) with 2 inch holes. Your selection of materials will determine the eye appeal and how much it detracts from the total display. I set my grid at about 1/3 the height of the tallest pitcher. The supporting frame is made from 1/2 inch copper pipe which has weathered nicely. I have some frames made from #9 single strand fence wire and covered with poultry fencing. Both #blend in fine when things grow up/thicken up in the bogs. At any rate it looks a lot better than having those beautiful pitchers laying on the ground. ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Sat Jun 25 10:15:32 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: spread of Cps Good to hear from you Jan. Concerning ocean dispersal, transportation via ocean current across the Pacific from west to east is not possible over that vast distance. The currents do not run in that direction in the southern hemisphere. A plant cannot travel directly from Australia to South America. Also note, there are no bird migratory routes to explain how D. sessilifolia got to South America. Fernando pointed out that the D. sessilifolia he has seen show no diversity while in southeast Asia to Australia D. burmannii is variable. So, as you point out Jan, the diversity center holds the origin. Another possible crossing from Eurasia to the Americas is the north Atlantic land bridge. Not a favorable stepping stone for a tropical plant, and since there is no trail of populations of D. burmannii/sessilifolia in N. America is evidence against a north Atlantic crossing. A crossing from Africa to S. America seems far more likely. Also, there is a probable report of section Thelocalyx in Africa. Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California >The possibility of long distance dispersal across the oceans cannot be excluded, either. Anyway, there is no trace of (indigenous) Sarraceniaceae in Australia, so this discussion is fairly theoretical. >Returning to the sundews, in the absence of fossil evidence I would assume the geographical origin of any plant group where the largest diversity at the highest rank within the group is found (cf. my paper on global cp diversity in CPN and my talk at the Tokyo conference). If the group is _Drosera_, the highest rank within the group is subgenus. The largest number of subgenera is found in Australia. So it would appear more likely a sundew came to S America from Australia than the other way round. >Even if we assumed _D. meristocaulis_ was a member of a pygmy sundew section (Bryastrum or Lamprolepis), the (recent) species diversity of these sections (combined) would be higher in Australia than in S America, with the same consequences for the most likely migration route. >Within Thelocalyx (_D. burmannii & sessilifolia_) the situation is less clear. >Kind regards Jan ___________________________________________________________________ Get Juno Platinum for as low as $6.95/month! Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage. Visit http://www.juno.com/bestoffer to sign up today! ################### From: smaietta at aabga.org (Maietta) Date: Sat Jun 25 12:03:46 2005 Subject: [CP] Thank you for contacting AABGA. Thank you for contacting AABGA. I am currently out of the office at the 2005 AABGA Annual Meeting in Chicago. All messages will be responded to upon my return. Have a great day! Sarah Sarah Maietta Office Manager AABGA 100 West 10th Street, Suite 614 Wilmington, DE 19801 302-655-7100, ext. 11 302-655-8100 fax ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sat Jun 25 12:07:52 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: spread of CPs, lightining Thanks Dave for the advice on lighting. Has anyone done a study on the digestive system of birds as to whether they will disolve something like Drosea seed? And BTW what bird would eat any Cp seed? This bird spreading seed the the best we have but I have some discrepencies (not to say it can't be done). If a bird on average flies 60 mph (I am fairly sure that is average over long distances) from some place like Oregon to Hawaii what are the chances that the seed will stay on the bird? I mean to say the seed is probibly held on by mud since Drosera seed has no known sticking abilities and Hawaii is quite a ways from Oregon. So it would take 50 hours minimum for the bird to get to Hawaii (okay I don't actually know the exact distance). How many of you have stuck your hand out of a car moving at 60mph? Kind of windy. How many of you have plants outside (I would guess most)? Do you every notice that plants that are outside dryout really fast on windy days? I know I have to water everything at least twice on those days. In general mud will dryout and fall apart once dry. Or at least will probibly get blown off. So it's not very likely that Drosera could travel long distances on the outside of birds to places. And I would not think inside either as birds have a tendancy to deficate a lot unless this birds was constipated or something. Isn't the bog with D. angelica in Hawaii on a mountain (near the top)? I think it would be difficult for seed to get there by water unless some heck of a tsunami happened. Well we could always go into Chaos theory (un-related events occur to make an outcome) which in this case would add up to a single Drosera species being so wide spread. Jan I have not read your paper but I would be interested in doing so. I don't think I'll run into any discrepencies by saying Drosera are probibly one of the oldest Carnivorous Plant genus' because they are rather simple. Only leaf and glandular movement (along with secreting digestive enzymes) are fairly complicated although many plants can move just most not as rapidly. Drosera are actually fairly simple Petunias have slightly sticky hairs which serve to ward of some types of insects. So it would not supprise me one bit if back when Utah was a sea the contenents were all connected and Dinosaurs roamed the earth Drosera existed. But finding fossil evidence would be hard to do, as someone as well studied as yourself, Jan, must know since plants rarely leave fossil imprints. This is of course because of a lack of hard structures which are th parts usually fossilized. True you can find trees and ferns but these are so prevelent thoroughout history. We also have no real idea as where to look for Drosera in particular. If we were looking for any animal fossil I could get you some in a couple hours, since they are in very obvious places. Tre Behalf Of Sean Samia Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 3:32 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com First of all D. banksii is the plant most closely related to the Petiolaris Complex.Second,don,t group plants by looks you will be very disappointed. For D.capillaris,D.Intermedia,D.Brevifolia were more likely spread via Hurricane and or Birds. Concerning D.Anglica definite Birds,Why?Microscopic Drosera seed floating 3000 miles in open sea runs into Hawaii. That's like a needle in a hay stack. But Birds migrating stop in Hawaii and what do they look for food, rest.(Bog, Marsh, and Wetland).Petiolarissean ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sat Jun 25 12:12:43 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: cp dispersal Maybe we are looking at this in to much of modern plants and animals and not relying enough on extinct species. Message: 10 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <20050625.101441.5249.228852@webmail18.nyc.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain Good to hear from you Jan. Concerning ocean dispersal, transportation via ocean current across the Pacific from west to east is not possible over that vast distance. The currents do not run in that direction in the southern hemisphere. A plant cannot travel directly from Australia to South America. Also note, there are no bird migratory routes to explain how D. sessilifolia got to South America. Fernando pointed out that the D. sessilifolia he has seen show no diversity while in southeast Asia to Australia D. burmannii is variable. So, as you point out Jan, the diversity center holds the origin. Another possible crossing from Eurasia to the Americas is the north Atlantic land bridge. Not a favorable stepping stone for a tropical plant, and since there is no trail of populations of D. burmannii/sessilifolia in N. America is evidence against a north Atlantic crossing. A crossing from Africa to S. America seems far more likely. Also, there is a probable report of section Thelocalyx in Africa. Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California >The possibility of long distance dispersal across the oceans cannot be excluded, either. Anyway, there is no trace of (indigenous) Sarraceniaceae in Australia, so this discussion is fairly theoretical. >Returning to the sundews, in the absence of fossil evidence I would assume the geographical origin of any plant group where the largest diversity at the highest rank within the group is found (cf. my paper on global cp diversity in CPN and my talk at the Tokyo conference). If the group is _Drosera_, the highest rank within the group is subgenus. The largest number of subgenera is found in Australia. So it would appear more likely a sundew came to S America from Australia than the other way round. >Even if we assumed _D. meristocaulis_ was a member of a pygmy sundew section (Bryastrum or Lamprolepis), the (recent) species diversity of these sections (combined) would be higher in Australia than in S America, with the same consequences for the most likely migration route. >Within Thelocalyx (_D. burmannii & sessilifolia_) the situation is less clear. >Kind regards Jan ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Sat Jun 25 12:45:33 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: spread of Cps Hey guys, Regarding the plants dispersal discussion, why does it have to be an easy route, in small jumps such as on/in birds? Of course it's very unlikely for a seed to be picked up in Australia, be carried thousands of km, and fall days later in a suitable habitat in S.America. But no matter what the odds are, given enough time it can certainly happen. So why not? Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia ################### From: CMcdon0923 at aol.com (CMcdon0923@aol.com) Date: Sat Jun 25 13:28:46 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Digital Camera and "Toppling Sarracenias" Just a word of caution regarding supporting "drooping Sarrs".... I had a similar problem with a mature S. flava which kept falling over every time it rained. So I decided to support it with a "tomato cage" as commonly found in gardens. It worked fine, until one evening I walked out to the bog and saw that every pitcher had been shredded about 6 inches below the top. Needless to say I was furious, thinking some animal had gotten to the plants. A day or two later I happened to look out the window, and what did I see.....BIRDS sitting on the framework of the cage, pecking away at the pitcher to get to the bugs inside. Needless to say, I've never used the tomato cages again. Craig Texas ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Sat Jun 25 21:17:52 2005 Subject: [CP] My dogs may be off the hook,its birds. Third day in a row,my S. purpurea spp. just about lost all their pitchers. Thinking it could be more of the birds than my dogs,so I put the pots on top of a table. When I checked the plants tonight,sure enough loss more pitchers. Now I am ticked off. They not just ripped off all of the pichers of all 3 S. purpures spp.,but also pulled out one of my flytraps. My garden is rune this year. Just when my purpurea plants were just geting fater and beautiful,they look crapy now. Hope they recover soon? I figured it has to be the pigents becuase the small birds nevered bother them. Or could be those black birds? So tonight I fixed the cracks of the bird bath by melting candle wax over the cracks to give it a good seal,enough to hold water in it so it help some to keep the birds away from my plants. And I placed a clear plastic wide container over the purpure plants to try to keep the bigger birds off the plants,so they recover. What else could I do besides shoot the dam pigents? My dogs are geting to old to keep killing them. Wolf ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Sun Jun 26 00:09:27 2005 Subject: [CP] Spread of C.P. hi dave-- just curious. why just D. anglica? why not D. rotundifolia, D. spatulata or D. intermedia as well? Gary Kong "Dave Evans" wrote: >Dear Sean, > > > Yeah, I think the bird theory for transport of _Drosera anglica_ is >strong. While I doubt they made the journey inside the birds, I do think >some seed made it over to Hawaii on migrating birds. On their feet, >probably. > > However, I doubt this would work for _Sarracenia_ or _Dionaea_ since >these species have much larger seed and would be shed from the bird's bodies >that much faster, perhaps a local vector for colonization. Each species >with disjunctive populations *could* have a separate mechanism for >transport, but likely some species shared the same pathways as they >appeared. > > >Dave Evans > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On Behalf >Of Sean Samia >Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 3:32 PM >To: Cp@omnisterra.com >Subject: [CP] Spread of C.P. > >First of all D. banksii is the plant most closely related to the Petiolaris >Complex.Second,don,t group plants by looks you will be very disappointed. >For D.capillaris,D.Intermedia,D.Brevifolia were more likely spread via >Hurricane and or Birds. Concerning D.Anglica definite Birds,Why?Microscopic >Drosera seed floating 3000 miles in open sea runs into Hawaii. That's like a >needle in a hay stack. But Birds migrating stop in Hawaii and what do they >look for food, rest.(Bog, Marsh, and Wetland).Petiolarissean > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: jk1492 at gmail.com (John Kawamoto) Date: Sun Jun 26 02:40:12 2005 Subject: [CP] Digital camera poll If you're looking for a 5 MP point-and-shoot camera with manual overrides that is lightweight, thin enough to fit in your pocket, easy to operate, and not too expensive, you might consider the Sony DSC F-88. It's a decent overall camera of this type, and it can take macro shots within one cm. of the subject. I'm not much of a photo junkie, but I just got one of these a couple of days ago, and I think it's great for shooting CPs because it's good at close-up shots. There are many better cameras out there if you're willing to spend a lot more money and carry more equipment. But dollar for dollar and ounce for ounce, this Sony camera is notable The only shortcoming I've noticed is that the LCD screen is too dark in low light conditions. The price varies a lot among different vendors, even on the internet, but it sells for $250 at CompUSA. If you want to compare actual photos between any two cameras in a pool of over 300 cameras, visit http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM. John Kawamoto ################### From: petiolarissean at yahoo.com (Sean Samia) Date: Sun Jun 26 05:11:37 2005 Subject: [CP] Spread of C.P. Over time things change.What happens now might have been different then.Birds might of migrated differently over eons of time. Water currents also might of been different over eons of time example;El Nino.Also,Earth is in the stages of reversing it's magnetic polls.What will happen to air and water currents then.Petiolarissean ################### From: petiolarissean at yahoo.com (Sean Samia) Date: Sun Jun 26 05:30:21 2005 Subject: [CP] Brain teaser of the month Scientist believe this rainforest to be over 1 billion years old and thought to be the oldest on the planet.Where is it. ################### From: n9lya at blueriver.net (Jerry) Date: Sun Jun 26 07:06:27 2005 Subject: [CP] My dogs may be off the hook,its birds. Wind Chimes, Those little pinwheels on a stick, anything that moves and makes noise in the breeze will help keep the birds away... There maybe other ideas.. Butthese come to mind quickly. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 11:17 PM > Third day in a row,my S. purpurea spp. just about lost all their pitchers. > Thinking it could be more of the birds than my dogs,so I put the pots on > top of a table. When I checked the plants tonight,sure enough loss more > pitchers. Now I am ticked off. They not just ripped off all of the pichers > of all 3 S. purpures spp.,but also pulled out one of my flytraps. My > garden is rune this year. Just when my purpurea plants were just geting > fater and beautiful,they look crapy now. Hope they recover soon? > > I figured it has to be the pigents becuase the small birds nevered bother > them. Or could be those black birds? So tonight I fixed the cracks of the > bird bath by melting candle wax over the cracks to give it a good > seal,enough to hold water in it so it help some to keep the birds away > from my plants. And I placed a clear plastic wide container over the > purpure plants to try to keep the bigger birds off the plants,so they > recover. > > What else could I do besides shoot the dam pigents? My dogs are geting to > old to keep killing them. > > Wolf > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > ################### From: smaietta at aabga.org (Maietta) Date: Sun Jun 26 12:03:24 2005 Subject: [CP] Thank you for contacting AABGA. Thank you for contacting AABGA. I am currently out of the office at the 2005 AABGA Annual Meeting in Chicago. All messages will be responded to upon my return. Have a great day! Sarah Sarah Maietta Office Manager AABGA 100 West 10th Street, Suite 614 Wilmington, DE 19801 302-655-7100, ext. 11 302-655-8100 fax ################### From: mpurvis at tampabay.rr.com (Michael Purvis) Date: Sun Jun 26 14:55:02 2005 Subject: [CP] Dead Drosera capensis? Well, repotted the D. capensis... roots seemed to be in OK shape, we shall see. I did find some type of small worm in the base of the stem formed by the old leaf bases, just below soil level.. I wonder if this little beast was chewing on the crown from below this whole time? He's history, and I carefully washed the remaining root system to make sure none of his friends were still there, repotted in a 50-50 peat/sand mix. Mike http://www.cafepress.com/viciousplants ################### From: Killerplants at aol.com (Killerplants@aol.com) Date: Sun Jun 26 18:47:59 2005 Subject: [CP] Re:Old Rainforest Is it the Taman Negara in Malaysia? Cheers, Joe Griffin Lincoln, NE USA In a message dated 6/26/2005 2:01:50 P.M. Central Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: Message: 10 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <20050626123016.79159.qmail@web30111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Scientist believe this rainforest to be over 1 billion years old and thought to be the oldest on the planet.Where is it. ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Sun Jun 26 19:11:19 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: My dogs may be off the hook,its birds. (Jerry) Thanks Jerry! I will have to try that. Wolf ################### From: kdubash at vsnl.com (K Dubash) Date: Sun Jun 26 20:24:17 2005 Subject: [CP] questions from novice. Hi, About a month ago, I acquired some cp's for the first time, and I am facing some problems, which I hope I can get some advice on. Nepenthes Alata. The pitchers of this plant seem to be having problems. The top of these drying off, and new pitchers don't seem to be forming, as these dry off even when they are young. Is there something I am doing wrong. This plant has been placed near a window, where it gets good light, but no direct sun. I water so as to keep the medium wet, but not water logged. Another question....do i snip off the dried pitchers? Drosera Alicia. A lot the leaves thsi plant are turning black, starting with the outer most edge. And slowly, more and more leaves are showing this sign. I have placed this plant in a tray, which constantly has a couple of centimeters of water. I use distilled water. I live in India, (Bombay), where the climate is more-or-less tropical, and we currently are in the monsoon season; thus humidity is high Thanks, Khushroo . ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu) Date: Mon Jun 27 01:46:39 2005 Subject: [CP] Spread of C.P. Dear Gary, Well, since those species haven't made it to Hawaii on their own I figured that would be the one that somehow got stuck on some birds and deposited in a distant land. I do think that for shorter disprisals, birds do help move about many plants, and not just those they eat. _Drosera_ seed are for the most part very small and light, I could see a few being held by a fold of skin, or even some rough talons. Either that, or a really strong wind blew the seed all that way which is diffenitely possible... There aren't too many other ways for them to get that far and up on a mountain at that. Dave E. > hi dave-- > > just curious. why just D. anglica? why not D. rotundifolia, D. spatulata > or D. intermedia as well? > > Gary Kong > > "Dave Evans" wrote: > >>Dear Sean, >> >> >> Yeah, I think the bird theory for transport of _Drosera anglica_ is >>strong. While I doubt they made the journey inside the birds, I do think >>some seed made it over to Hawaii on migrating birds. On their feet, >>probably. >> >> >>Dave Evans ################### From: pesiolinp at tiscali.it (Giancarlo Carbone) Date: Mon Jun 27 02:04:24 2005 Subject: [CP] Drosera binata in Italy? Hi Weston Do yo speak italian? We have in Italy a CP society with a lot of people. Some of them live in Tuscany (I live in Rome) Its site is www.aipcnet.it , and we have a mailing list too: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/piantecarnivore but if you want to join this list you must contact this email address: cars@bio.unipd.it (you can write in english too) There is also a seeds bank (The link is: "banca semi"). If you need more advices you can contact me at pesiolinp@tiscali.it Cheers ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 9:00 PM > After thirty five years as a northern California boy, I have > relocated to Italy, and am having a wonderful time, but missing my > plants and a lot of friends. (Also margaritas, San Francisco--etc., > but I'll try to stay on target here). I have been able to find a very > limited supply of tiny 4 Euro pot CPs (Drosera, Sars, Dionaea), and a > couple of neps from the nearby green houses, but nothing else. If any > nearby list members have plants to sell, I would be happy to hear > from you off list. I would particularly like to get some of the > branched Drosera (T-form, Giant--anything), as the capensis is going > crazy in my windowsills, and any of the bulbous vine types or stand- > up droseras. Forgive my illiteracy about the names. My copy of Savage > Garden is buried in a packing box that I won't see for months yet. I > am in Anghiari, in Tuscany--if any list members are nearby, let me know. > > Weston Bielby > wwbielby@comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: n9lya at blueriver.net (Jerry) Date: Mon Jun 27 03:04:37 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: My dogs may be off the hook,its birds. (Jerry) Hi Harry, You can try pie tins as well tied up so sind makes them move... Let us know how your plants come out.. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 9:11 PM > Thanks Jerry! I will have to try that. > > Wolf > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > ################### From: hollands at widomaker.com (Holland Family) Date: Mon Jun 27 10:16:36 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: My dogs may be off the hook,its birds. (Jerry) AOL and other junk CDs make good bird chasers too. My YMCA hangs them in the rafters of their picnic shelter and it keeps the nesting birds out pretty well. ----- Original Message ----- To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 6:03 AM > Hi Harry, > You can try pie tins as well tied up so sind makes them move... > Let us know how your plants come out.. > Jerry > > ################### From: matthew.opel at juno.com (Matthew Opel) Date: Mon Jun 27 11:17:48 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: spread of CPs Hi all, Here are some amusing bits of natural history trivia for people following this discussion to consider: 1) If you dig a new pond in the northeastern US (and probably most anywhere else), within a few years it will be swarming with aquatic insects and plants, amphibians, and even fish. This happens even if you are purposely trying to keep aquatic life out of the pond, and the nearest sources are miles away. 2) People have found viable duckweed (Lemna) inside of hail pellets (apparently swept up into thunderstorms). Duckweed will sometimes establish itself--presumably via this route--for the summer in water in clogged gutters on the roofs of buildings. I think that plants get dispersed by storms, birds, etc. much more effectively than most people would imagine. Given just a couple of years, dispersal events that seem unlikely, like utricularias travelling across town to a new pond, are actually inevitable. Given a few thousand years seemingly impossible things, like drosera seed being blown thousands of miles through the stratosphere and landing in a friendly bog, become possible. -Matt O. -- Matthew R. Opel Phone: (860) 486 1890 Univ. Connecticut 75 N. Eagleville Rd. U-43 Storrs, Ct 06269 USA ################### From: smaietta at aabga.org (Maietta) Date: Mon Jun 27 12:03:25 2005 Subject: [CP] Thank you for contacting AABGA. Thank you for contacting AABGA. I am currently out of the office at the 2005 AABGA Annual Meeting in Chicago. All messages will be responded to upon my return. Have a great day! Sarah Sarah Maietta Office Manager AABGA 100 West 10th Street, Suite 614 Wilmington, DE 19801 302-655-7100, ext. 11 302-655-8100 fax ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Mon Jun 27 12:13:18 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: My dogs may be off the hook,its birds. (Jerry) I did think about useing coffee cans? I seen sonic devices that supose to repell birds,does any one use this? Does any one has it and does it work? Wolf ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Mon Jun 27 13:04:51 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: spread of CPs which brings me back to my original question. why just D. anglica? don't they share habitats with other Drosera? could it have been hybrid vigor that made it possible for them to adapt to the new habitat? were others transported there as well, but was D. anglica the only species that was able to adapt? i've seen this dispersal phenomenon in my S. rubra 'gulfensis' water saucer. it's teeming with Daphnia. i didn't put them there. they weren't present in any of the other saucers or water trays. they just appeared. then one day, i noticed sparrows drinking from the saucer. they dunked their beaks in and that's when i realized, they must be drinking from ponds in the area and were serving as vectors for Daphnia from surrounding ponds, including ones in nearby Golden Gate Park. the saucer is particularly deep and affords the sparrows a rim on which to perch. it's also more hidden, or private, than the other saucers or trays on my balcony, a necessity for birds that have to let down their guard while they dip their heads to drink. my U. gibba in my windowbox tray appreciates the addition to the local ecology, BTW. Gary Kong "Matthew Opel" wrote: > >Hi all, > >Here are some amusing bits of natural history trivia for people following this discussion to consider: > >1) If you dig a new pond in the northeastern US (and probably most anywhere else), within a few years it will be swarming with aquatic insects and plants, amphibians, and even fish. This happens even if you are purposely trying to keep aquatic life out of the pond, and the nearest sources are miles away. > >2) People have found viable duckweed (Lemna) inside of hail pellets (apparently swept up into thunderstorms). Duckweed will sometimes establish itself--presumably via this route--for the summer in water in clogged gutters on the roofs of buildings. > >I think that plants get dispersed by storms, birds, etc. much more effectively than most people would imagine. Given just a couple of years, dispersal events that seem unlikely, like utricularias travelling across town to a new pond, are actually inevitable. Given a few thousand years seemingly impossible things, like drosera seed being blown thousands of miles through the stratosphere and landing in a friendly bog, become possible. > >-Matt O. > >-- >Matthew R. Opel Phone: (860) 486 1890 >Univ. Connecticut >75 N. Eagleville Rd. U-43 >Storrs, Ct 06269 USA > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu) Date: Mon Jun 27 17:14:43 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: spread of CPs Dear Gary, It could be. I'm sure other _Drosera_ have moved around here and there the same way (whatever that may be), but maybe since _D. anglica_ is so widespread to start of with, it also happens to be in more places where it can be picked for the journey to Hawaii. Maybe it is just lucky? It has been mentioned that _D. anglica_ has shown its self to be more adaptable than it's parent species, so maybe being more adaptable played two roles in getting to and establishing on Hawaii: 1) Allowing it to spread far and wide on North America and Asia and since it so abundant, there was plenty of material for winds or birds to pick up for further dispersal. 2) Being more adaptable allowed it to colonize new habitats which it had no way of reaching on its own. Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of Gary Kong Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 4:05 PM To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group which brings me back to my original question. why just D. anglica? don't they share habitats with other Drosera? could it have been hybrid vigor that made it possible for them to adapt to the new habitat? were others transported there as well, but was D. anglica the only species that was able to adapt? ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Tue Jun 28 10:03:21 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: spread of CP Hi Fernando and all, Why not consider a sundew crossing the Pacific from Australia to S. America? Because these are the rules of the reasoning game. We must study the research and examples experts have given us and weigh likelihood. Otherwise someone will later come along and show the foolishness of the theory about New Australians transporting D. burmannii. And they will rub your nose in it with even wilder speculations about Early Viking Botanists. It's fun to speculate, but to be serious we must study real science. Keep this in mind: Not a single plant has made the crossing you suggest. Here is some real science: Sherwin Carlquist 1970 in his book Hawaii a Natural History sums up best the story of how D. anglica got to Hawaii. This is the theory of seed being carried on the muddy feet of the shore bird Golden Plover on its annual migratory route between Siberia and Alaska. I put this theory to the test by crossing the Hawaiian form of D. anglica with Californian and Alaskan and checking fertility. I also soaked seed capsules in sea water and test germinated; no problem. The ocean current route from California to Hawaii is a long shot but one which a few plants must have taken; example California Tarweed. Anyway, my hybrids all proved perfectly fertile. So, D. anglica could have come from either or both places. Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ___________________________________________________________________ Get Juno Platinum for as low as $6.95/month! Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage. Visit http://www.juno.com/bestoffer to sign up today! ################### From: smaietta at aabga.org (Maietta) Date: Tue Jun 28 12:05:50 2005 Subject: [CP] Thank you for contacting AABGA. Thank you for contacting AABGA. I am currently out of the office at the 2005 AABGA Annual Meeting in Chicago. All messages will be responded to upon my return. Have a great day! Sarah Sarah Maietta Office Manager AABGA 100 West 10th Street, Suite 614 Wilmington, DE 19801 302-655-7100, ext. 11 302-655-8100 fax ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Tue Jun 28 16:38:04 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: spread of CPs D. anglica most likely got there by the muddy feet of migrating birds. I just know it grows farther up north about the Great Lakes and Canada. Don't remember if it grow over in EU nor AU? One thing we also must remember back in school when we learned these lands were onced one big mass of land before seperated by the earth's forces. Wolf ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Tue Jun 28 19:57:56 2005 Subject: [CP] The cost of carnivory for Darlingtonia californica To Darlingtonia fans, Check the link below... Take Care, Fernando Rivadavia The cost of carnivory for Darlingtonia californica (Sarraceniaceae): evidence from relationships among leaf traits Aaron M. Ellison and Elizabeth J. Farnsworth Am. J. Bot. 2005;92 1085-1093 http://www.amjbot.org/cgi/content/abstract/92/7/1085 ################### From: walterg at nauticom.net (Walter Greenwood) Date: Tue Jun 28 21:40:40 2005 Subject: [CP] Stanley Rehder's seed business Can anyone tell me who took over Stanley Rehder's CP seed business? I recieved a flyer from them last year but can't find it now. -WG ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Wed Jun 29 00:20:39 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: spread of CPs the hawaiian islands too? i believe they're ***the result of*** continental drift, therefore are among the youngest land masses on earth. also, D. rotundifolia is a much older species than D. anglica, if we're to accept that D. anglica is the hybrid of D. rotundifolia and D. linearis. and certainly as, if not moreso, widespread. Ivan Snyder was able to produce a somewhat more adaptive D. rotundifolia by crossing two clones with differing growth habits, so it's not like D. rotundifolia doesn't possess some adaptability. just saying... Gary Kong "Harry Q" wrote: >D. anglica most likely got there by the muddy feet of migrating birds. I >just know it grows farther up north about the Great Lakes and Canada. Don't >remember if it grow over in EU nor AU? One thing we also must remember back >in school when we learned these lands were onced one big mass of land before >seperated by the earth's forces. > >Wolf > > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: lauriebr at club-internet.fr (Laurence CHARRET) Date: Wed Jun 29 05:26:49 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: Pink-blush Sarracenia alata in Mississippi Dear Barry, I'm new on the mailing list, but I'm preparing our trip to FLorida, Louisiana, Mississipi and towards Georgia. Peter d'Amato advised us to contact you that way: We've visited some carnivorous sites in California, a few years ago, and we'll be visiting Georgia, Florida and the road towards New Orleans. We'd like to visit some natural CP sites. I belong to the French CP Association "Dion?e" and grow myself CP in a glasshouse. As we are going for vacation in those states, we'd like to visit some sites. Could you give us or indicate locations so we could take marvellous pictures. Maybe we could get in touch with someone from the Am CP association there? Thanks for what you'll be doing. We are leaving next week for the whole month of July. ################### From: lauriebr at club-internet.fr (Laurence CHARRET) Date: Wed Jun 29 06:05:21 2005 Subject: [CP] CP in the wild (Florida, Louisiana, Mississipi, Georgia...) Hi everyone, We 've visited some carnivorous sites in California, a few years ago, and we'll be visiting Georgia, Florida and the road towards New Orleans. We'd like to visit some natural CP sites. I belong to the French CP Association "Dion?e" and grow myself CP in a glasshouse. As we are going for vacation in those states, we'd like to visit some sites. Could you give us or indicate locations so we could take marvellous pictures. Maybe we could get in touch with someone from the Am CP association there? Thanks for what you'll be doing. We are leaving next week for the whole month of July. ################### From: smaietta at aabga.org (Maietta) Date: Wed Jun 29 12:03:17 2005 Subject: [CP] Thank you for contacting AABGA. Thank you for contacting AABGA. I am currently out of the office at the 2005 AABGA Annual Meeting in Chicago. All messages will be responded to upon my return. Have a great day! Sarah Sarah Maietta Office Manager AABGA 100 West 10th Street, Suite 614 Wilmington, DE 19801 302-655-7100, ext. 11 302-655-8100 fax ################### From: petiolarissean at yahoo.com (Sean Samia) Date: Thu Jun 30 05:45:58 2005 Subject: [CP] E-Mails I am going to e-mail every single person that E me.Also,wow are a lot of people pissed off with me sending seed to Allen Lowrie.Listen,people are always wining to me about him.How did I get his seed to germinate?Am I the center of the universe.Nope!Believe me most seed of the petiolaris complex probably have a shelf life around 20-40 years.I have seed that I made from 97 that still germinates.You throw down my seed and you think it's Capensis.My plants are genetically selected for easy germination.Petiolarissean ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Thu Jun 30 05:59:49 2005 Subject: [CP] E-Mails Sean, the enter key is your friend =) Send me petiolaris seed =) --- Sean Samia wrote: > I am going to e-mail every single person that E > me.Also,wow are a lot of people pissed off with me > sending seed to Allen Lowrie.Listen,people are > always wining to me about him.How did I get his seed > to germinate?Am I the center of the > universe.Nope!Believe me most seed of the petiolaris > complex probably have a shelf life around 20-40 > years.I have seed that I made from 97 that still > germinates.You throw down my seed and you think it's > Capensis.My plants are genetically selected for easy > germination.Petiolarissean > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Thu Jun 30 09:12:22 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: spread of CPs Hi Gary and Dave, I believe you have explained it. It makes sense that because of the hybrid origin of Drosera anglica it proved more adaptable to Hawaii. The Hawaiian Islands are the most isolated land masses on Earth. Carlquist's book suggests that for this reason seeds would likely arrive and take root there individually. The book elegantly explains that this is the reason all of the plants there are self fertile. Thus, we can assume this is why the common circumborreal Pinguicula vulgaris has not become established in Hawaii as well. Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ___________________________________________________________________ Get Juno Platinum for as low as $6.95/month! Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage. Visit http://www.juno.com/bestoffer to sign up today! ################### From: rafflesiana at yahoo.com (marcello catalano) Date: Thu Jun 30 11:22:19 2005 Subject: [CP] Yahoo! group about Nep from Indochina Hi everybody, I just created a Yahoo! group about Nepenthes from Indochina (Thailand, Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia). It will be useful to post photos, informations and discussions about this topic, considering that you can't do it on my website and it's hard to keep this topic high in very big forums. Anything particularly interesting you post in this group will be regularly added to www.nepenthesofthailand.com Please run and join at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WildJungle/ thanks, Marcello __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ################### From: smaietta at aabga.org (Maietta) Date: Thu Jun 30 12:05:16 2005 Subject: [CP] Thank you for contacting AABGA. Thank you for contacting AABGA. I am currently out of the office at the 2005 AABGA Annual Meeting in Chicago. All messages will be responded to upon my return. Have a great day! Sarah Sarah Maietta Office Manager AABGA 100 West 10th Street, Suite 614 Wilmington, DE 19801 302-655-7100, ext. 11 302-655-8100 fax ################### From: smaietta at aabga.org (Maietta) Date: Fri Jul 1 12:02:39 2005 Subject: [CP] Thank you for contacting AABGA. Thank you for contacting AABGA. I am currently out of the office at the 2005 AABGA Annual Meeting in Chicago. All messages will be responded to upon my return. Have a great day! Sarah Sarah Maietta Office Manager AABGA 100 West 10th Street, Suite 614 Wilmington, DE 19801 302-655-7100, ext. 11 302-655-8100 fax ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu) Date: Fri Jul 1 18:56:22 2005 Subject: [CP] Dead Drosera capensis? Dear Mike, Cool, sounds like that worm could have been causing a problem for the plant. Sometimes, if a plant isn't responding well, repotting it will do the trick, especially when you have tried several other things and had no positive results yet. Please let me know if it recovers or not... Good luck, Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of Michael Purvis Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 5:55 PM To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Well, repotted the D. capensis... roots seemed to be in OK shape, we shall see. I did find some type of small worm in the base of the stem formed by the old leaf bases, just below soil level.. I wonder if this little beast was chewing on the crown from below this whole time? He's history, and I carefully washed the remaining root system to make sure none of his friends were still there, repotted in a 50-50 peat/sand mix. Mike http://www.cafepress.com/viciousplants ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu) Date: Fri Jul 1 19:18:07 2005 Subject: [CP] questions from novice. Dear Khushroo, I find _Drosera aliciae_ to be very difficult to grow. Most people laugh when I mention this, saying is the easiest of sundews to cultivate, but still it doesn't last long for me... Perhaps this one is easy to rot the roots with too much water? You can remove the old pitchers on the _Nepenthes_, but wait until the whole pitcher has died. Most _Nepenthes_ let the top half of the pitcher dry, but continue to collect rain water with the still green/living bottom half, _N. alata_ is no exception. If the plant is not showing signs of burning from the light, you probably want to try giving it some more light. Since it is already very humid, I doubt that is the problem, unless the air in the room where the plant is located is drier than normal? (Air conditioning?) If the light is traveling through a glass window, you can probably move it so it can receive more light. I place my plants in open plastic baggies (like a tent without a top) and continue to cut away pieces of the bag as the plant gets used to its new location, more and more of the plant is exposed to the household air slowly over a couple of weeks time. Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of K Dubash Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 11:25 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Nepenthes Alata. The pitchers of this plant seem to be having problems. The top of these drying off, and new pitchers don't seem to be forming, as these dry off even when they are young. Is there something I am doing wrong. This plant has been placed near a window, where it gets good light, but no direct sun. I water so as to keep the medium wet, but not water logged. Another question....do i snip off the dried pitchers? Drosera Alicia. A lot the leaves thsi plant are turning black, starting with the outer most edge. And slowly, more and more leaves are showing this sign. I have placed this plant in a tray, which constantly has a couple of centimeters of water. I use distilled water. I live in India, (Bombay), where the climate is more-or-less tropical, and we currently are in the monsoon season; thus humidity is high Thanks, Khushroo ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Fri Jul 1 22:38:38 2005 Subject: [CP] questions from novice. i have two pots of D. aliciae growing in very different conditions. one is in a fully exposed pot that gets sun all day. it exhibits this blackening after growing for a while. but because it re-seeds wo readily, i just let the old plants die so new ones can replace it. the other is in shade, in a deep saucer that is filled with water all the time and occasionally spends several days submerged after heavy rains, therefore it's cool, wet and is lush with Sphagnum. this one produces much larger leaves, has never exhibited blackening of leaves and its flowerstalks are taller and more stout than the fully exposed plants. so from these two experiences, i've concluded that D. aliciae likes it cool, wet and shady. does anyone else agree? Gary Kong wrote: >Dear Khushroo, > > > I find _Drosera aliciae_ to be very difficult to grow. Most people >laugh when I mention this, saying is the easiest of sundews to cultivate, >but still it doesn't last long for me... Perhaps this one is easy to rot >the roots with too much water? > > You can remove the old pitchers on the _Nepenthes_, but wait until >the whole pitcher has died. Most _Nepenthes_ let the top half of the >pitcher dry, but continue to collect rain water with the still green/living >bottom half, _N. alata_ is no exception. If the plant is not showing signs >of burning from the light, you probably want to try giving it some more >light. Since it is already very humid, I doubt that is the problem, unless >the air in the room where the plant is located is drier than normal? (Air >conditioning?) > > If the light is traveling through a glass window, you can probably >move it so it can receive more light. I place my plants in open plastic >baggies (like a tent without a top) and continue to cut away pieces of the >bag as the plant gets used to its new location, more and more of the plant >is exposed to the household air slowly over a couple of weeks time. > > >Dave Evans >New Jersey, USA >www.Dangerousplants.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com [mailto:Cp-bounces@omnisterra.com] On Behalf >Of K Dubash >Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 11:25 PM >To: Cp@omnisterra.com >Subject: [CP] questions from novice. > >Nepenthes Alata. The pitchers of this plant seem to be having problems. The >top of these drying off, and new pitchers don't seem to be forming, as these > >dry off even when they are young. Is there something I am doing wrong. This >plant has been placed near a window, where it gets good light, but no direct > >sun. I water so as to keep the medium wet, but not water logged. Another >question....do i snip off the dried pitchers? > >Drosera Alicia. A lot the leaves thsi plant are turning black, starting with > >the outer most edge. And slowly, more and more leaves are showing this sign. > >I have placed this plant in a tray, which constantly has a couple of >centimeters of water. > >I use distilled water. > >I live in India, (Bombay), where the climate is more-or-less tropical, and >we currently are in the monsoon season; thus humidity is high > >Thanks, > >Khushroo > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: paul.temple at eds.com (Temple, Paul) Date: Sat Jul 2 02:59:06 2005 Subject: [CP] New carnivorous plant genus found!!! (No - it isn't April 1) A new a new plant taxon has just been announced following it's recent discovery in China. The plant is named Archaeamphora longicervia Li and represents a brand new genus and species. However, don't all rush to try to be the first to grow it. It became extinct millions of years ago. Yes, this is an early cretaceous fossil plant but, amazingly, there is a fossil record of the plant itself rather than just of seed or pollen. In fact, although fossil records for seeds and pollen of carnivorous plants have been published (for example see Fossil Aldrovanda,, DR. John D. Degreef, Carnivorous Plant Newsletter 26: 93-97, 1997), this is believed to be the first record of actual plant material being found for any type of Pitcher Plant. Indeed, in his 1997 article Dr. Degreef states that with regard to what Paeoaldrovanda looked like, "We have no idea, and it is very improbable that leaf fossils from Aldrovanda will ever be found." So it is remarkable that the new fossil genus has sufficient fossil record to show that it was a Sarracenia type plant (i.e. it's sarraceniacean). This is also thought to be the earliest record of the existence of any carnivorous plant. For those interested in reading more details, here's the reference: Ji, Q., H. Li, L. M. Bowe, Y. Liu, & D. W. Taylor, 2004, Early Cretaceous Archaefructus eoflora sp. nov. with bisexual flowers from Beipiao, western Liaoning, China. Acta Geologica Sinica 78: 883-896. Cheers Paul In Bushey, London (UK) Imagination is more important than knowledge ################### From: stephenwd at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Davis) Date: Sat Jul 2 03:35:44 2005 Subject: [CP] New carnivorous plant genus found!!! (No - it isn't April 1) Finally a CP I can't kill, forget to water or worry about aphid attacks in spring. I've GOT to get one! Stephen www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com "Temple, Paul" wrote: A new a new plant taxon has just been announced following it's recent discovery in China. The plant is named Archaeamphora longicervia Li and represents a brand new genus and species. However, don't all rush to try to be the first to grow it. It became extinct millions of years ago. Yes, this is an early cretaceous fossil plant but, amazingly, there is a fossil record of the plant itself rather than just of seed or pollen. In fact, although fossil records for seeds and pollen of carnivorous plants have been published (for example see Fossil Aldrovanda,, DR. John D. Degreef, Carnivorous Plant Newsletter 26: 93-97, 1997), this is believed to be the first record of actual plant material being found for any type of Pitcher Plant. Indeed, in his 1997 article Dr. Degreef states that with regard to what Paeoaldrovanda looked like, "We have no idea, and it is very improbable that leaf fossils from Aldrovanda will ever be found." So it is remarkable that the new fossil genus has sufficient fossil record to show that it was a Sarracenia type plant (i.e. it's sarraceniacean). This is also thought to be the earliest record of the existence of any carnivorous plant. For those interested in reading more details, here's the reference: Ji, Q., H. Li, L. M. Bowe, Y. Liu, & D. W. Taylor, 2004, Early Cretaceous Archaefructus eoflora sp. nov. with bisexual flowers from Beipiao, western Liaoning, China. Acta Geologica Sinica 78: 883-896. Cheers Paul In Bushey, London (UK) Imagination is more important than knowledge ################### From: stephenwd at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Davis) Date: Sat Jul 2 03:54:00 2005 Subject: [CP] Pond Tour and CP article Hi all, My pond and bog are on the Santa Clara Koi and Water Garden pond tour Saturday, July 16th. If you are in the San Jose area and interested in ponds, water gardens and bogs, please stop by. Details are at http://www.sckoi.com/ and there is a small fee for the tour. You can see the pond at my web site listed in my signature. My pond is rather small and frankly I think the main reason they are picking it up is because of my carnivorous plant bog. If you like gardens, mine is interesting too, although not worth a special trip. You will be able to see all of the CP of course. :-) There was an article written about CP in the San Mateo times and a the other local papers owned by the same company a couple of weeks ago. It was pretty well written and the reporter interiewed Peter D. at at California Carnivores and myself. It is no longer online, but if you google carnivorous plants san mateo times, you will find the article and can hit the cache button to read it. I don't know how much longer it will be available this way though. This link MIGHT take you right to it. http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:qnKow8wTlYcJ:www.insidebayarea.com/insideout/ci_2800021+carnivorous+plants+san+mateo+times&hl=en Stephen Davis www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com ################### From: hpulley at rogers.com (Harry Pulley) Date: Sat Jul 2 06:14:34 2005 Subject: [CP] questions from novice. I agree that N. alata needs a lot of light to pitcher well. The trick is to get enough light AND humidity and yet at the same time not make it too hot as the pitchers will dry up and die if it gets above 30C. For me this is a challenge as many containers which give it enough humidity make it too hot when placed in direct sunlight. The solution for me was to place it in a little greenhouse with a hinged lid and an open bottom. The plant sits on a wire grill on a shallow upside-down pot as it does not like to sit in water. This upside-down pot sits in a saucer which I keep filled with water for evaporation. At night I close the lid to increase the humidity but during the day I open it so it doesn't get too hot. By having an open bottom and top it seems to get sufficient airflow to keep the temps down and yet still keep the humidity up with the side glass and the container of water below the plant. Also, it seems to need cooler nights than days to do well. This is easy in Canada but probably not so easy in asia if you are inland. If you can juggle all of these factors then it will pitcher well but if it is unhappy for any reason then it will just lope along, producing greenery only with dry leaf tips. Don't worry though, at any time if you change the conditions to make it happy it will begin pitchering again with gusto, first small pitchers but then bigger ones with each one. :-{} Harry C. Pulley, IV mailto:hpulley@rogers.com http://ca.geocities.com/hpulley4@rogers.com Guelph, Ontario, Canada ----- Original Message ----- You can remove the old pitchers on the _Nepenthes_, but wait until the whole pitcher has died. Most _Nepenthes_ let the top half of the pitcher dry, but continue to collect rain water with the still green/living bottom half, _N. alata_ is no exception. If the plant is not showing signs of burning from the light, you probably want to try giving it some more light. Since it is already very humid, I doubt that is the problem, unless the air in the room where the plant is located is drier than normal? (Air conditioning?) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.8/37 - Release Date: 7/1/05 ################### From: smaietta at aabga.org (Maietta) Date: Sat Jul 2 12:02:44 2005 Subject: [CP] Thank you for contacting AABGA. Thank you for contacting AABGA. I am currently out of the office at the 2005 AABGA Annual Meeting in Chicago. All messages will be responded to upon my return. Have a great day! Sarah Sarah Maietta Office Manager AABGA 100 West 10th Street, Suite 614 Wilmington, DE 19801 302-655-7100, ext. 11 302-655-8100 fax ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Sun Jul 3 01:26:08 2005 Subject: [CP] New CP Taxa discovered in China Paul Temple mentioned about this new plant discovered in China, well the fossils of it anyway. I've just fallen in, I think that this is the plant that we had a talk about at the ICPS conference in Lyon in 2004. The lecturer didn't want us to take any photos of his talk or mention it outside the conference, because he hadn't published anything about yet. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Sun Jul 3 08:21:20 2005 Subject: [CP] D.meristocaulis **IS** a pygmy sundew! Hello to all, I just wanted to share with everyone the latest news about D.meristocaulis -- news which will re-open our discussion about the spread of CPs... I've just received results of DNA sequencing which puts D.meristocaulis NOT as a close relative of pygmy sundews or of the pygmies and petiolaris-complex species. To our total surprise, it appeared AMONG the pygmies, as a full member of subgenus Bryastrum, somewhere between D.scorpioides and D.ericksoniae!!!!!! Needless to say we are still aghast with these results and are still trying to fathom the depth of what this means... Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia ################### From: stovehouse at earthlink.net (Michael Hunt) Date: Sun Jul 3 08:24:53 2005 Subject: [CP] D. filiformis in Canada Q.: Didn't they find a plant on the endangered species list in a peat moss bog in New Brunswick? A.: The threaded leaf sundew was found in a peat moss bog in Nova Scotia. This common plant was considered to be rare only because it is seldom found that far north. The peat moss bog in question was not harvested. A systematic series of environmental studies are being conducted before any new areas are put into production so that other rare species will not be threatened by harvesting. ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Sun Jul 3 08:48:05 2005 Subject: [CP] RE: New species For those of you not on Terraforums Ozzy posted this article: With the carnivorous pitchers and beautiful flowers, sarraceniacean plants are found with three genera separately distributed in South and North America. They are considered neither related to the monospecific Cephalotaceae in Australia, nor the monogeneric Nepenthaceae in the Old World tropics (including southern China). For lacking fossil record, whether sarraceniacean genera originated from South Africa or alternately within North America has been uncertain. Here we report the first fossil sarraceniacean plant, Archaeamphora longicervia, from the Jianshangou Formation, Low Cretaceous, at Beipiao, western Liaoning, China. The plants are herbaceous and similar to modern Sarracenia purpurea to some extent in having spirally arranged pitchers and phyllodia-like tubular leaves with parallel major veins. They can be reconstructed together with intimately associated seeds that are reticulate-tuberculate and winged, morphologically resembling the seeds of Sarracenia the most. Furthermore, using GC-MS we have found the fossil molecular peak with oleanane in the extracts that were directly leached from three fossil pitcher samples. The extracts were then treated with zeolite molecular sieve to remove non-oleanane isomers and thus confirm the existence of oleanane through GC-MS analysis again. Oleanane has been considered to be a biomarker of angiosperms, and it has not been found in extant gymnosperms. Several other fossil and sedimentary samples collected from the same site were also analyzed, but no oleanane has been found yet. The existence of fossil molecule oleanane suggests the fossil plants should belong to angiosperms rather than gymnosperms, while the unique pitcher structure and characteristic sarraceniacean seeds lead to a comparison to sarraceniacean plants. Archaeamphora demonstrates the oldest, and the only fossil record of sarraceniacean plants. China does not have living sarraceniacean plants, but very few species of Nepenthaceae. Obviously, this fossil record from China provides us significant data in study of the origin, evolution, and phylogenetic relationships of pitcher plants. Occurrence of Crown Eudicot Angiosperm - Sarraceniacean-like Pitcher Plants - in the Early Cretaceous, China. Recently, the earliest known angiosperm Archaefructus liaoningensis and A. sinensis are suspected to be of possible crown group of angiosperms rather than sister taxa of all extant angiosperms. However, multiple lines of evidence (e.g., cymose inflorescence, small bisexual flowers, orthotropous ovules, etc.) found on a new species, Archaefructus eoflora*, suggest that Archaefructus is a neither primitive nor crown angiosperm, but among the basal dicots. Another coeval fossil plant, Sinocarpus, is proposed to be a basal eudicot. Thus, although recent molecular studies suggest that crown angiosperms should have occurred between 148-208 mya, no true crown eudicot angiosperms have been found in the Yixian Formation (125 mya) yet. Here I report a new fossil plant taxon, Archaeamphora longicervia gen. et sp. nov. Li, from the site of Archaefructus liaoningensis in the same Yixian Formation, northeastern China. The plants are herbaceous and similar to modern sarraceniaceans in having spirally arranged developed/underdeveloped pitchers that have parallel major veins and reticulate meshes, distinctive honey-spoon-like structures, and porous cuticularized glands on the inner surface. The intimately associated seeds are reticulate-tuberculate and winged, resembling sarraceniacean seeds. The unique pitcher and characteristic seed together suggest a relationship to Sarraceniaceae of the crown group of angiosperms. The relationship to angiosperms is also supported with fossil molecule oleanane found from Archaeamphora, using GC-MS. Archaeamphora demonstrates the earliest carnivorous plant and the only fossil record of pitcher plants. Also, as the third genus of the earliest known angiosperms, the existence of such highly derived core eudicot angiosperm suggests that flowering plants should have originated much earlier, possibly in the Late Paleozoic as molecular clock studies predicted. *Ji, Q., H. Li, L. M. Bowe, Y. Liu, & D. W. Taylor, 2004, Early *Cretaceous Archaefructus eoflora sp. nov. with bisexual flowers from *Beipiao, western Liaoning, China. Acta Geologica Sinica 78: 883-896. Tre Bond Carnivorous Plant Fanatic in Jacksonville, Fl Growlist: http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin/ib312/ikonboard.cgi?s=cacff7c3591c852ffbe986bc24b42901;act=ST;f=32;t=17110 A good home to any rescued plants or any plants in need ################### From: smaietta at aabga.org (Maietta) Date: Sun Jul 3 12:09:08 2005 Subject: [CP] Thank you for contacting AABGA. Thank you for contacting AABGA. I am currently out of the office at the 2005 AABGA Annual Meeting in Chicago. All messages will be responded to upon my return. Have a great day! Sarah Sarah Maietta Office Manager AABGA 100 West 10th Street, Suite 614 Wilmington, DE 19801 302-655-7100, ext. 11 302-655-8100 fax ################### From: z5guy at kittymail.com (jon mungeam) Date: Sun Jul 3 17:02:26 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: D. filiformis wow! thats neat! i guess the two i have will do fine in my new bog. -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.kittymail.com ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Sun Jul 3 17:21:30 2005 Subject: [CP] re: new species I think the piont was there was a connection Tre? Remember at one time all these land was one billions of years ago. So the decovery give us a more insite what the early carnivorouse might of looked like? Wolf ################### From: it_290 at hotmail.com (mike wilder) Date: Sun Jul 3 17:22:53 2005 Subject: [CP] aussies/lowrie vol. 2 owners please help hello, i'm trying to get specific information about the flowering time of d. pulchella. unfortunately i don't have access to vol. 2 of lowrie. can anyone please tell me: 1. during what months does it flower in habitat? 2. what are the average temperatures in habitat during this time? 3. what are the weather conditions like--dry, rainy, humid, arid, etc? thanks so much in advance-- mike wilder www.geocities.com/pingenstein ################### From: owns6196 at comcast.net (owns6196@comcast.net) Date: Sun Jul 3 22:07:29 2005 Subject: [CP] Question Hey I have a question about my VFT when the edges of the trap starts to turn yellow is the trap dying? ################### From: HmrTheHrmt at aol.com (HmrTheHrmt@aol.com) Date: Sun Jul 3 22:41:27 2005 Subject: [CP] aussies/lowrie vol. 2 owners please help Well, mine is flowering right now. Of course, I'm not in Australia, or growing it in habitat, so I guess that's not much help, is it? In a message dated 7/3/2005 5:23:17 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, it_290@hotmail.com writes: i'm trying to get specific information about the flowering time of d. pulchella. TTFN Hamir the Hermit ################### From: john.wilden at hmrc.gsi.gov.uk (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) Date: Sun Jul 3 23:16:49 2005 Subject: [CP] Questions from Novice I use distilled water. I live in India, (Bombay), where the climate is more-or-less tropical, and we currently are in the monsoon season; thus humidity is high Thanks, Khushroo Kushroo, Why use distilled water when you have a free source of water (rainwater), especially at this time of the year? Its just a thought, but your distilled water may be the culprit. I've heard that some distillation processes may load the water with excess copper (although I'm not too sure how). Has your plant been ok for a short while and has then gone rapidly downhill? Nepenthes Alata. The pitchers of this plant seem to be having problems. The top of these drying off, and new pitchers don't seem to be forming, as these dry off even when they are young. Is there something I am doing wrong. This plant has been placed near a window, where it gets good light, but no direct IMHO this is indicative of a plant that is growing in low humidity. What's the average temperature range where you live? It may be that the plant would be happier outside (shaded) than indoors. Regards John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ################### From: john.wilden at hmrc.gsi.gov.uk (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) Date: Sun Jul 3 23:41:36 2005 Subject: [CP] Fossil CP found and compost corner So it is remarkable that the new fossil genus has sufficient fossil record to show that it was a Sarracenia type plant (i.e. it's sarraceniacean). This is also thought to be the earliest record of the existence of any carnivorous plant. Paul, Thanks for letting us know about this. Whilst I've yet to have a look at this paper, I'm surprised that more fossils of sarracenia type haven't yet come to light. Ever tried composting Sarracenia pitchers? I've had compost which has been on the 'go' for 2-3 years and the only thing that is recognisable when the compost is spread on the garden, is Sarracenia pitchers (even when chopped up, prior to composting). I know that composting isn't the same as fossilisation, but if my (extremely) rudimentary knowledge of geology is anything to go by, then one of the early stages in the overall process of fossilisation, is the ability of the subject to avoid early decomposition. However it may be that modern Sarracenia may have developed 'tougher' leaves than their ancestors, in which case my theory (such as it is), falls down. Given the propensity of Sarracenia collectors to collect any and all variants (and I number myself as one), how long will it be before the collection of fossilised CP becomes yet another niche within the hobby? Any thoughts? Regards John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ################### From: Junglejimme at aol.com (Junglejimme@aol.com) Date: Mon Jul 4 01:50:13 2005 Subject: [CP] list server sign-up ################### From: skaspence at iprimus.com.au (Sean & Kirsty Spence) Date: Mon Jul 4 02:49:42 2005 Subject: [CP] aussies/lowrie vol. 2 owners please help >From my experience of seeing the species growing near Esperance I can >say that it flowers from around November through to January or >February. It grows exclusively in areas that are moist almost the year >round. The largest colonies I saw were in low depressions around the >margins of seasonal swamps where they grew alongside D. occidentalis >ssp. occidentalis. They were also found in smaller numbers growing in >seeps upon granite mountains. During flowering time the weather conditions are extremely variable, ranging from around 20 deg C (F???) to over 40 deg C- at nights down to about 10-15 deg C. I'd say the average day temps in December would be high 20's but regularly well into the thirties and above. The rainfall at this time of the year is very minimal but quite humid in the swampy areas in which they grow. By the end of summer the habitat of the species would be barely moist, probably quite dry on the surface but quite wet several inches down. The rains usually arrive during fall. Hopes this provides some of the info you require. Regards, ################### From: djiezus at lycos.com (Fre rik) Date: Mon Jul 4 08:27:31 2005 Subject: [CP] Drosera archaeodoinaea Hi all, I was reading up on a few of the old posts and noticed this one: http://www.omnisterra.com/botany/cp/list/cp98all.d/1116.htm Could anyone tell me what happened since 2001 with this species ... renamed or something ? Cheers, Frederick -- _______________________________________________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com ################### From: djiezus at lycos.com (Fre rik) Date: Mon Jul 4 08:31:13 2005 Subject: [CP] Drosera archaeodoinaea - never mind Hmmm, never mind my previous post, it's sorted out. Fred - looking forward to meeting Ed Read -- _______________________________________________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com ################### From: it_290 at hotmail.com (mike wilder) Date: Mon Jul 4 18:35:49 2005 Subject: [CP] aussies/lowrie vol. 2 hello sean-- thanks so much for your helpful reply! perfect! mike wilder www.geocities.com/pingenstein ################### From: john.wilden at hmrc.gsi.gov.uk (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) Date: Mon Jul 4 23:23:53 2005 Subject: [CP] Drosera archaeodoinaea - never mind Hmmm, never mind my previous post, it's sorted out. So what was it? (an early posted April Fool's joke?) Regards John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ################### From: kdubash at vsnl.com (kdubash@vsnl.com) Date: Tue Jul 5 00:44:03 2005 Subject: [CP] Questions from Novice Hi John, Thanks for the response. Yes, I do have a free source of rainwater, but this will last for 2-3 months only. However, I am waiting for a couple of weeks to pass first, so that the initial rains will bring down all the pollutants in the air, and then i will start collecting the water. Question...can I keep dioneas and droseras in the open, where they get the direct rain? I would still keep the tray underneath, so would excessive flooding of the plants be a problem? Also know that sometimes the rains can be heavy and lashing, with strong winds. Futher, would the direct sun (during the periods when there is a lull in the rains) be a problem? So far I have avoided putting these in the open, and placed them near a window. I do think that the Nep is getting a decent amount of humidity. Considering that at this time of the year humidity would almost always be upwards of 75%, and also considering that the plant is near a window, (the flat...er, apartment... has no airconditioning, and windows are almost always open), I doubt humidity is a problem. Thanks again for the responses. Khushroo ------------------------------------------------------------ Kushroo, Why use distilled water when you have a free source of water (rainwater), especially at this time of the year? Its just a thought, but your distilled water may be the culprit. I've heard that some distillation processes may load the water with excess copper (although I'm not too sure how). Has your plant been ok for a short while and has then gone rapidly downhill? Nepenthes Alata. The pitchers of this plant seem to be having problems. The top of these drying off, and new pitchers don't seem to be forming, as these dry off even when they are young. Is there something I am doing wrong. This plant has been placed near a window, where it gets good light, but no direct IMHO this is indicative of a plant that is growing in low humidity. What's the average temperature range where you live? It may be that the plant would be happier outside (shaded) than indoors. Regards John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK > ################### From: ddarnows at ius.edu (Darnowski, Douglas William) Date: Tue Jul 5 06:42:25 2005 Subject: [CP] Fossil Sarraceniaceae Folks, That new paper is not the one folks are thinking about, as has just been mentioned. The paper cited on the listserv is for an early flowering plant but not a cp--the authors include the head of my department (Taylor) and my head coorganizer of the 2006 ICPS meeting, Hong-qi Li. Hong-qi is the person who gave the talk in Lyon and hopefully we will hear more in Maryland in 2006. If you look at the meeting website and scroll down to the official meeting logo, you will see a drawing of this included in the logo. Doug ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Tue Jul 5 13:16:08 2005 Subject: [CP] Questions from Novice you failed to mention whether the N. alata is a highland or lowland variety. i would think a lowland variety would thrive in your conditions, while a highland wouldn't. highlanders need cool nights. i have found highland N. alata very forgiving when it comes to humidity fluctuations. i grow mine as houseplants and i've given a cutting to a friend who grows it on her patio, along with tomatoes, jade plant and aloe vera. the lower parts of the plant do not like direct sun all day and seem to thrive in partial shade, while the upper vine seems impervious. i've noticed this about other Nepenthes as well. the upper vines seem better adapted to direct sun. also, have you transplanted it recently? it may just be suffering transplant shock. keep an eye on it, if so, as one of the responses can be loss of the roots. the top will remain green, but the roots will die. in this case, you need to re-root the living section. someone recently recommended placing it in live Sphagnum and treating it as any other cutting. good luck, Gary Kong kdubash@vsnl.com wrote: >Hi John, > >Thanks for the response. > >Yes, I do have a free source of rainwater, but this will last for 2-3 months only. However, I am waiting for a couple of weeks to pass first, so that the initial rains will bring down all the pollutants in the air, and then i will start collecting the water. > >Question...can I keep dioneas and droseras in the open, where they get the direct rain? I would still keep the tray underneath, so would excessive flooding of the plants be a problem? Also know that sometimes the rains can be heavy and lashing, with strong winds. Futher, would the direct sun (during the periods when there is a lull in the rains) be a problem? So far I have avoided putting these in the open, and placed them near a window. > >I do think that the Nep is getting a decent amount of humidity. Considering that at this time of the year humidity would almost always be upwards of 75%, and also considering that the plant is near a window, (the flat...er, apartment... has no airconditioning, and windows are almost always open), I doubt humidity is a problem. > >Thanks again for the responses. > >Khushroo > >------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >Kushroo, >Why use distilled water when you have a free source of water (rainwater), >especially at this time of the year? > >Its just a thought, but your distilled water may be the culprit. I've heard >that some distillation processes may load the water with excess copper >(although I'm not too sure how). Has your plant been ok for a short while >and has then gone rapidly downhill? > > >Nepenthes Alata. The pitchers of this plant seem to be having problems. The >top of these drying off, and new pitchers don't seem to be forming, as these > >dry off even when they are young. Is there something I am doing wrong. This >plant has been placed near a window, where it gets good light, but no direct > > >IMHO this is indicative of a plant that is growing in low humidity. What's >the average temperature range where you live? It may be that the plant would >be happier outside (shaded) than indoors. > >Regards > > >John Wilden >Southport >Lancashire. >UK >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: Writerguy67 at aol.com (Writerguy67@aol.com) Date: Tue Jul 5 15:23:29 2005 Subject: [CP] Travelling the World to See CP (Update and Thank You) A month or so ago I posted an odd request: Anyone in the world willing to host me for a CP visit? I won a free trip to a number of destinations (London, Paris, Frankfort, Ho Chi Minh City, Shanghai, Tokyo, Sydney, Melbourne) and I was looking for an inexpensive CP trek to accompany my free flight. I want to thank the three listserv members who so generously volunteered their hospitality. Unfortunately, due to time, geography or other factors, I haven't been able to accept (Passing on a particular South American offer has been killing me). So to those in the UK, Germany and Brazil, thank you! Ok ... I really (REALLY) have my heart set on Australia (Blue Mountains? Melbourne? Anyone? Anyone?) I would be more than happy to visit a number of folks in and around London (the goal would be to visit multiple private collections and Kew, if possible) if Australia doesn't work out. Jay Lechtman Northern Virginia USA ################### From: h7n at talk21.com (Nigel Hurneyman) Date: Tue Jul 5 15:26:13 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: D.meristocaulis **IS** a pygmy sundew! > Hello to all, > > I just wanted to share with everyone the > latest news about > D.meristocaulis -- news which will re-open our > discussion about the spread > of CPs... I've just received results of DNA > sequencing which puts > D.meristocaulis NOT as a close relative of pygmy > sundews or of the pygmies > and petiolaris-complex species. To our total > surprise, it appeared AMONG the > pygmies, as a full member of subgenus Bryastrum, > somewhere between > D.scorpioides and D.ericksoniae!!!!!! Needless to > say we are still aghast > with these results and are still trying to fathom > the depth of what this > means... > > Best Wishes, > Fernando Rivadavia Hi Fernando, Thanks for sharing that with us. Is there any evidence that D. meristocaulis produces gemmae? That's not meant to be critical, but it would be interesting to list the differences between Australian and South American pygmies. NigelH ___________________________________________________________ How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com ################### From: Writerguy67 at aol.com (Writerguy67@aol.com) Date: Tue Jul 5 15:26:45 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: pink-flowered S. alata (photo of one clone) I have a photo of one of the pink-flowered S. alata clones on my new website. _http://www.horrorculture.com/gallery_mississippi.html_ (http://www.horrorculture.com/gallery_mississippi.html) (http://www.horrorculture.com) The website is in its infancy. Much is left to do (collection data, photo galleries, etc.). The Mississippi gallery is currently the only plant gallery up (but there are a few human photos elsewhere, and some information about my collection (with some photos here as well -- at least a few S. flava clones). But, before we all forgot about pink-flowered alatas, I wanted to share. ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Tue Jul 5 19:08:33 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: D.meristocaulis **IS** a pygmy sundew! Hey Nigel, >Is there any evidence that D. meristocaulis produces gemmae? That's not meant to be critical, but it would be interesting to list the differences between Australian and South American pygmies. This is THE question we're all wondering about now, hahaha! :):) So far we have no idea whether D.meristocaulis produces gemmae regularly or even sporadically (when under stress for example). We'll have to wait and see what plants in cultivation do... Take Care, Fernando Rivadavia ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Tue Jul 5 20:02:49 2005 Subject: [CP] Wanted: Native Pinguicula pumila Looking for these US native butterwort. Dwarf Butterwort Pinguicula pumila Wolf ################### From: mpurvis at tampabay.rr.com (Michael Purvis) Date: Tue Jul 5 20:28:45 2005 Subject: [CP] Warning: Don't assume heavy rains are keeping your CPs watered! Learn from my mistake... We've had a good deal of rainfall here in Florida, so I figured my Nepenthes x coccinea was in good shape... until early one evening when I took my dog outside & saw the plant in full wilt! The plant's leaves had formed an "awning" of sorts that deflected most of the rainfall away from the soil. Even though we had a heavy rain just the day before, with resulting high humidity..... the soil was bone dry! Fortunately, I always kep an emergency supply of distilled water on hand... dumped about half a gallon into the pot. Lost all of the older leaves and 98% of the pitchers, but the plant survived & is already developing new pitchers. Dodged that bullet! Mike http://www.cafepress.com/viciousplants ################### From: john.wilden at hmrc.gsi.gov.uk (Wilden, John {HQ Lpl, LIV BIT, LIV RBS North}) Date: Tue Jul 5 23:59:43 2005 Subject: [CP] q's from novice Question...can I keep dioneas and droseras in the open, where they get the direct rain? I would still keep the tray underneath, so would excessive flooding of the plants be a problem? Also know that sometimes the rains can be heavy and lashing, with strong winds. Futher, would the direct sun (during the periods when there is a lull in the rains) be a problem? So far I have avoided putting these in the open, and placed them near a window. Hi Kushroo, Before placing any plants out in the open its always a good idea to acclimatise them (the process is also called 'hardening off') gradually.You may find that (as you seem to be aware) that straight exposure to full sun ,especially after rain, may do more harm than good, with the plants being burnt. Given your weather conditions I personally would be inclined to only put the plants out when the weather is bearable and for brief periods of time.If your sunlight is very intense then they may benefit from some initial shading until they become acclimatised to the light intensity. However,your plants will withstand a lot, but a few months worth of flooding, intense sunlight, battering by rain and being blown about will not have them growing in peak condition! Regarding your rainwater, I've heard it said that if you have pollution problems its normally better to wait an hour before collecting unless you're in a real pollution blackspot, in which case it may be better to avoid collecting the rainwater altogether. The other problem is of course how to store it so that you don't end up with a mosquito farm! Alternative sources of water could be obtained from anybody who has a reverse-osmosis filter. People who may have one of these filters are fish keepers, specifically people who keep marine fish or discus fish and it may be worth seeing if there are any of these people in your immediate area. Regards John Wilden Southport Lancashire. UK The original of this email was scanned for viruses by the Government Secure Intranet (GSi) virus scanning service supplied exclusively by Energis in partnership with MessageLabs. On leaving the GSi this email was certified virus-free ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Wed Jul 6 07:15:43 2005 Subject: [CP] CPs of Australia Is there any chance a reprinting of Allen Lowries books will ever occur? Tre Tre Bond Carnivorous Plant Fanatic in Jacksonville, Fl Growlist: http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin/ib312/ikonboard.cgi?s=cacff7c3591c852ffbe986bc24b42901;act=ST;f=32;t=17110 A good home to any rescued plants or any plants in need ################### From: cixcell at yahoo.com (Chris Hind) Date: Wed Jul 6 07:18:49 2005 Subject: [CP] CPs of Australia yeah i second that. --- Tre Bond wrote: > Is there any chance a reprinting of Allen Lowries > books will ever occur? > Tre > > > Tre Bond > Carnivorous Plant Fanatic in Jacksonville, Fl > Growlist: > http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin/ib312/ikonboard.cgi?s=cacff7c3591c852ffbe986bc24b42901;act=ST;f=32;t=17110 > > A good home to any rescued plants or any plants in > need > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Wed Jul 6 08:50:49 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: D.meristocaulis **IS** a pygmy sundew! That is certainly surprising news Fernando. I suppose this means that D. meristocaulis is likely a recent arrival to S. America the same as D. sessilifolia. I think we can also assume now that they probably both came to S. America via the same route. Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California >Hello to all, > I just wanted to share with everyone the latest news about D.meristocaulis -- news which will re-open our discussion about the spread of CPs... I've just received results of DNA sequencing which puts D.meristocaulis NOT as a close relative of pygmy sundews or of the pygmies and petiolaris-complex species. To our total surprise, it appeared AMONG the pygmies, as a full member of subgenus Bryastrum, somewhere between D.scorpioides and D.ericksoniae!!!!!! Needless to say we are still aghast with these results and are still trying to fathom the depth of what this means... >Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia ___________________________________________________________________ Get Juno Platinum for as low as $6.95/month! Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage. Visit http://www.juno.com/bestoffer to sign up today! ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Wed Jul 6 11:43:07 2005 Subject: [CP] Questions from novice Khushroo was asking whether he could leave plants such as Dionaea outside. I think that I have been following all this and I think that you said you live in India. A problem that you are going to have is one of a cool winter, it will probably be too warm where you are. VFT's have it quite cool where they come from. I rang a friend in North Carolina one winter and they were expecting 6 inches of snow, although that type of weather doesn't go on for weeks like that. What you can do, is put the pots in the salad basket in the fridge for three or four months, as long as you don't have too many plants. This is one of the problems of living in the tropics, a lot of people find that they cannot grow Sarracenia, but have to put up with boring old Nepenthes. Only joking when I say that. Your going to tell me that you live in Bradford, UK, now, I bet. Regards David Ahrens London. ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Wed Jul 6 12:58:19 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: D.meristocaulis **IS** a pygmy sundew! Hi Fernando, Allen can probably answer this better but if it formed gemmae, isn't it likely you'd see at least a few plants with clusters of plantlets coming from the growth point? I know Allen's remarked to me about the unique (and extremely effective) gemmae dispersal method he's witnessed when raindrops have hit the center of the plant, but maybe some of them remain, even in such a rainy environment? Hmmm, could this be why I seem to recall seeing specimens consisting of tight clusters of plants? Or maybe they were just bunched that way - can't remember. I always knew meristocaulis was a pygmy! ;) Matt Message: 5 To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" Message-ID: <000501c581cf$a2ff9780$0a8662c8@abbrazil> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hey Nigel, >Is there any evidence that D. meristocaulis produces gemmae? That's not meant to be critical, but it would be interesting to list the differences between Australian and South American pygmies. This is THE question we're all wondering about now, hahaha! :):) So far we have no idea whether D.meristocaulis produces gemmae regularly or even sporadically (when under stress for example). We'll have to wait and see what plants in cultivation do... Take Care, Fernando Rivadavia ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (fe_riva) Date: Wed Jul 6 13:03:26 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: D.meristocaulis **IS** a pygmy sundew! Hey Ivan, > That is certainly surprising news Fernando. I suppose this means that > D. meristocaulis is likely a recent arrival to S. America the same as > D. sessilifolia. I think we can also assume now that they probably > both came to S. America via the same route. Ivan Snyder Very likely indeed!!! Although I still think D.sessilifolia is more recent. After all, annuals have a shorter generation time and thus evolve more rapidly. So you would expect it to be more different from D.burmannii than D.meristocaulis is from other pygmies... Best Wishes, Fernando __________________________________________________________________________ UOL Fone: Fale com o Brasil e o Mundo com at? 90% de economia. http://www.uol.com.br/fone ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu) Date: Wed Jul 6 13:49:52 2005 Subject: [CP] CPs of Australia Dear List, I third that! I have read over and over that there is no incentive for the publisher to do a reprinting... This just goes to show that they don't know any CP'ers! Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com Yeah i second that. --- Tre Bond wrote: > Is there any chance a reprinting of Allen Lowries > books will ever occur? > Tre > > > Tre Bond > Carnivorous Plant Fanatic in Jacksonville, Fl > Growlist: > http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin/ib312/ikonboard.cgi?s=cacff7c3591c852ffbe9 86bc24b42901;act=ST;f=32;t=17110 > > A good home to any rescued plants or any plants in > need > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: tgridley at comcast.net (Tony Gridley) Date: Wed Jul 6 14:31:54 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: CPs of Australia Last August or so, one of our members phoned him and asked him this question. See http://www.bacps.org/2004Summer.html#lowrie Tony Gridley Newsletter Editor, Bay Area Carnivorous Plant Society > Is there any chance a reprinting of Allen Lowries books will ever occur? > Tre ################### From: treaqum1 at yahoo.com (Tre Bond) Date: Wed Jul 6 15:51:18 2005 Subject: [CP] New CPN out Lots of Neps Tre Tre Bond Carnivorous Plant Fanatic in Jacksonville, Fl Growlist: http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin/ib312/ikonboard.cgi?s=cacff7c3591c852ffbe986bc24b42901;act=ST;f=32;t=17110 A good home to any rescued plants or any plants in need ################### From: hansbr at giga.net.tw (Hans Breuer) Date: Wed Jul 6 18:43:52 2005 Subject: [CP] Questions from novice > This is one of the problems of living in the tropics, a lot of people > find that they cannot grow Sarracenia, but have to put up with boring > old Nepenthes. Them's fightin' words! Greetings from the coldest inhabited place in Taiwan (3 degrees Celsius in January!) Hans ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu) Date: Wed Jul 6 19:12:26 2005 Subject: [CP] Questions from novice Dear List, Well, you can't grow a bog full of them, but you could put a couple of plants in the fridge for two or three months very easily! Once removed from the pots, you can treat them like you would veggies that you want to store for a while--not too wet, not too dry. A couple of friends have kept _Darlingtonia_ in the fridge for over six months successfully. Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of Hans Breuer Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 9:44 PM To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group > This is one of the problems of living in the tropics, a lot of people > find that they cannot grow Sarracenia, but have to put up with boring > old Nepenthes. Them's fightin' words! Greetings from the coldest inhabited place in Taiwan (3 degrees Celsius in January!) Hans ################### From: david.ahrens at btopenworld.com (DAVID AHRENS) Date: Thu Jul 7 15:22:46 2005 Subject: [CP] Question from novice Hans wrote" > This is one of the problems of living in the tropics, a lot of people > find that they cannot grow Sarracenia, but have to put up with boring > old Nepenthes. Them's fightin' words! Greetings from the coldest inhabited place in Taiwan (3 degrees Celsius in January!) Hans, you edited out the bit which said I was only joking. ################### From: petiolarissean at yahoo.com (Sean Samia) Date: Thu Jul 7 17:36:52 2005 Subject: [CP] C,P's of Austalia Why don't everyone on the list e- mail the publisher.The squeaky wheel gets oiled.What about Vol.4?Petiolarissean ################### From: hansbr at giga.net.tw (Hans Breuer) Date: Thu Jul 7 18:20:39 2005 Subject: [CP] Question from novice >>This is one of the problems of living in the tropics, a lot of people >>find that they cannot grow Sarracenia, but have to put up with boring >>old Nepenthes. >> >> > >Them's fightin' words! > > >Hans, you edited out the bit which said I was only joking. > > My apologies, David. I thought the jocular character of the dialogue were evident even without your disclaimer :- cheers! Hans ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu) Date: Thu Jul 7 18:29:40 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: D.meristocaulis **IS** a pygmy sundew! Dear Fernando and Matt, Thanks guys. I just want to say thank you for keeping the attention of all us CP'ers on these obscure species, like _Drosera meristocaulis_. If not for keeping us all aware of them over the last ten or twelve years, I doubt there would have been as much interest in finding them nor as much interest/support from the CP community in general for such arduous expeditions to find such tiny plants. And in turn, I hope there are now enough people who are interested in cultivating such plants, so that a healthy population will remain in cultivation w/o having to re-collect them. I reckon, Fernando, that you would have made your way back to Neblina eventually, but sooner was better than later :) BTW, how long has Australia's climate been such that it would cause the pygmies to need to form gemmae? Which came first the gemmae or the stipule bud (for surviving the dry summer)? Perhaps the we have a case of co-vergent evolution in which many of these species separated from each other, but were primed with a stipule bud (so-to-speak) only to develop the ability to make gemmae each on their own by being exposed to the same conditions? Dave Evans -----Original Message----- Of Sundew Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 3:58 PM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Hi Fernando, Allen can probably answer this better but if it formed gemmae, isn't it likely you'd see at least a few plants with clusters of plantlets coming from the growth point? I know Allen's remarked to me about the unique (and extremely effective) gemmae dispersal method he's witnessed when raindrops have hit the center of the plant, but maybe some of them remain, even in such a rainy environment? Hmmm, could this be why I seem to recall seeing specimens consisting of tight clusters of plants? Or maybe they were just bunched that way - can't remember. I always knew meristocaulis was a pygmy! ;) Matt ################### From: petiolarissean at yahoo.com (Sean Samia) Date: Fri Jul 8 01:58:49 2005 Subject: [CP] Brain teaser of the month(Answer) Daintree,Australia ################### From: pat.charpentier at wanadoo.fr (P.Charpentier) Date: Fri Jul 8 13:03:43 2005 Subject: [CP] D.meristocaulis **IS** a pygmy sundew! dear list, the new of the re-discovering was a great one among our french community. one of our fellows asked the following question : "if D.meristocaulis is somewhere between D.scorpioides and D.ericksoniae, this would mean that thoose species are very ancient.....but the litterature tells us that the differenciation between pygmy sundews took place in Australia.....and this means that Australia is the last refugium of pygmy droera, without D.meristocaulis of course, right ?" interresting question, isn't it ? and what about the south american differentiated pygmy sundews ? did they exist ? I'm also asking another question : could it be possible that D.meristocaulis wasn't remarqued by , for example, Heliamphora collectors, in nature , and this since years ? and, could it be that there are some D.meristocaulis pictures on "our" Venzuela field trip pictures ? best regards patrice c / france / carnibank webmaster > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 21:29:20 -0400 > From: > Subject: RE: [CP] Re: D.meristocaulis **IS** a pygmy sundew! > > Dear Fernando and Matt, > > > Thanks guys. I just want to say thank you for keeping the attention > of all us CP'ers on these obscure species, like _Drosera meristocaulis_. If > not for keeping us all aware of them over the last ten or twelve years, I > doubt there would have been as much interest in finding them nor as much > interest/support from the CP community in general for such arduous > expeditions to find such tiny plants. And in turn, I hope there are now > enough people who are interested in cultivating such plants, so that a > healthy population will remain in cultivation w/o having to re-collect them. > I reckon, Fernando, that you would have made your way back to Neblina > eventually, but sooner was better than later :) > > BTW, how long has Australia's climate been such that it would cause > the pygmies to need to form gemmae? Which came first the gemmae or the > stipule bud (for surviving the dry summer)? Perhaps the we have a case of > co-vergent evolution in which many of these species separated from each > other, but were primed with a stipule bud (so-to-speak) only to develop the > ability to make gemmae each on their own by being exposed to the same > conditions? > > > Dave Evans > > ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Fri Jul 8 14:53:17 2005 Subject: [CP] D.meristocaulis **IS** a pygmy sundew! Hello Patrice! > the new of the re-discovering was a great one among our french community. > one of our fellows asked the following question : > "if D.meristocaulis is somewhere between D.scorpioides and D.ericksoniae, this would mean that thoose species are very ancient.....but the litterature tells us that the differenciation between pygmy sundews took place in Australia.....and this means that Australia is the last refugium of pygmy droera, without D.meristocaulis of course, right ?" > > interresting question, isn't it ? and what about the south american differentiated pygmy sundews ? did they exist ? The insertion of D.meristocaulis somewhere between D.scorpioides and D.ericksoniae doesn't mean that either of these species is old, they've certainly evolved since their common ancestor. The phylogeny simply puts D.meristocaulis within the pgmy group, and not as a sister group. But remember that only a few pygmies have been sequenced for the rbcL gene, so it's still hard to say which pygmy is closest to D.meristocaulis. So what this phylogeny shows is that the pygmy group as a whole may be very ancient, with many modern representatives -- only one of which is surprisingly found outside of Australia & N.Zealand (D.meristocaulis). It could be that D.meristocaulis descends from a single pygmy seed or gemmae that somehow reached Neblina, or else pygmies were more widespread in the S Hemisphere in the past and D.meristocaulis is a relict of a once large population or group of species... > I'm also asking another question : could it be possible that D.meristocaulis wasn't remarqued by , for example, Heliamphora collectors, in nature , and this since years ? > and, could it be that there are some D.meristocaulis pictures on "our" Venzuela field trip pictures ? I'm certain!!! The damn pitcher plant syndrome! Wherever there are pitcher plants, the smaller CPs are terribly understudied!! Take Care, Fernando Rivadavia P.S. Sorry if I don't reply for a while, but I'll be away for 2 weeks on a CP trip in Brazil with fellow CPers Ed Read, Joe Mullins, and Vitor Miranda. Hope to have lots of news when we get back! ;) ################### From: christoph_belanger2001 at yahoo.com (Christoph Belanger) Date: Fri Jul 8 16:18:58 2005 Subject: [CP] New WebSite Launched All, Just wanted to let you know that I launched my new Web Site. At this point it is going to be primarily a gallery with images posted as I scan them. THe URL is: www.belangeronline.com Hope you enjoy, and please come back frequently as things will changes often. Christoph ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:15:34 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: D.meristocaulis **IS** a pygmy sundew! Hey dave! >Thanks guys. I just want to say thank you for keeping the attention of all us CP'ers on these obscure species, like _Drosera meristocaulis_. If not for keeping us all aware of them over the last ten or twelve years, I doubt there would have been as much interest in finding them nor as much interest/support from the CP community in general for such arduous expeditions to find such tiny plants. And in turn, I hope there are now enough people who are interested in cultivating such plants, so that a healthy population will remain in cultivation w/o having to re-collect them. Thanks! :) I'm glad I've been able to pass on a little of my fanatism! ;) >I reckon, Fernando, that you would have made your way back to Neblina eventually, but sooner was better than later :) I agree! I'm glad I was able to get back there before I turned 60, hehehe! >BTW, how long has Australia's climate been such that it would cause the pygmies to need to form gemmae? Which came first the gemmae or the stipule bud (for surviving the dry summer)? Perhaps the we have a case of co-vergent evolution in which many of these species separated from each other, but were primed with a stipule bud (so-to-speak) only to develop the ability to make gemmae each on their own by being exposed to the same conditions? Because D.meristocaulis appears WITHIN the pygmy group, I'd guess both the large stipules and gemmae appeared first. If D.meristocaulis lots the ability to form gemmae or not, we'll have to wait and see. It's unlikely however that gemmae evolved more than once... Take Care, Fernando Rivadavia ################### From: dpevans at rci.rutgers.edu (dpevans@rci.rutgers.edu) Date: Sat Jul 9 07:19:29 2005 Subject: [CP] Daintree, Australia Dear Sean, Would this be where the Queensland sundews are from? I read a bit of trivia on a website, http://www.daintreerainforest.com/ , which mentions that this forest takes up only about 0.2% of Australia's landmass, yet holds a very substantial percentage of species, which are found no where else. Sounds like a fantastic place to visit! Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com -----Original Message----- Of Sean Samia Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 4:59 AM To: Cp@omnisterra.com Daintree,Australia ################### From: jure.slatner at guest.arnes.si (Jure) Date: Sat Jul 9 13:06:32 2005 Subject: [CP] P. leptoceras South-East border I wander where is the known border of distribution of this species at South-East. I mean in Austria somewhere? Does it grow on granite base strictly or on calcareous too? Jure ################### From: Jeremiahsplants at adelphia.net (Jeremiah Harris) Date: Sat Jul 9 13:08:24 2005 Subject: [CP] 50 Packs of Byblis liniflora seeds up for grabs Hello everyone, I have 50 packs of Byblis liniflora seeds up for grabs. There are about 10-20 seeds in each pack. They are very fresh just collected within the last month. If you would like a pack you have two options. #1 Just send a sase to the address below. #2 If you are worried about them getting smashed in the mail send $2.00 and I will send them to you in a padded envelope. It is your choice. If you could just shoot me a quick email saying you want some so I can have a rough idea of how many packs are spoken for that would really help. If you don't mind putting a note in the envelope saying it is for the Byblis liniflora seed that would be great as well. Email me if you have any questions. thanks -Jeremiah- ________________________________________________ Colorado Carnivorous Plant Society Jeremiah Harris 712 Columbia Rd Colorado Springs CO 80904 719-578-8123 AIM: Nepenthesrajah jeremiahsplants@adelphia.net http://www.geocities.com/colorado_carnivorousplantsociety/index.html Discussion Forums: www.s4.invisionfree.com/CCPS ################### From: Killerplants at aol.com (Killerplants@aol.com) Date: Sat Jul 9 13:59:21 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: rainforest Well, according to Dave's site, it beats this one I mentioned by five million years, even though this site(below) also claims to be the oldest rainforest. _http://www.tamannegararesort.com/descriptions/oldrainforest.htm_ (http://www.tamannegararesort.com/descriptions/oldrainforest.htm) Cheers, Joe Griffin Lincoln, NE USA In a message dated 7/9/2005 2:01:47 P.M. Central Standard Time, Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: Message: 5 To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" Message-ID: <000401c58491$3440e640$22aba8c0@ad.ess.rutgers.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Sean, Would this be where the Queensland sundews are from? I read a bit of trivia on a website, http://www.daintreerainforest.com/ , which mentions that this forest takes up only about 0.2% of Australia's landmass, yet holds a very substantial percentage of species, which are found no where else. Sounds like a fantastic place to visit! Dave Evans New Jersey, USA www.Dangerousplants.com ################### From: DougWitkowski at netscape.net (DougWitkowski@netscape.net) Date: Sat Jul 9 15:03:56 2005 Subject: [CP] 50 Packs of Byblis liniflora seeds up for grabs I would love a packet of seeds! Thanks! Doug Witkowski Dripping Springs, TX "Jeremiah Harris" wrote: >Hello everyone, > >I have 50 packs of Byblis liniflora seeds up for grabs. ?There are about >10-20 seeds in each pack. ?They are very fresh just collected within the >last month. > >If you would like a pack you have two options. > >#1 Just send a sase to the address below. > >#2 If you are worried about them getting smashed in the mail send $2.00 and >I will send them to you in a padded envelope. > >It is your choice. > >If you could just shoot me a quick email saying you want some so I can have >a rough idea of how many packs are spoken for that would really help. ?If >you don't mind putting a note in the envelope saying it is for the Byblis >liniflora seed that would be great as well. > >Email me if you have any questions. > >thanks >-Jeremiah- >________________________________________________ >Colorado Carnivorous Plant Society >Jeremiah Harris >712 Columbia Rd >Colorado Springs CO 80904 >719-578-8123 >AIM: Nepenthesrajah >jeremiahsplants@adelphia.net >http://www.geocities.com/colorado_carnivorousplantsociety/index.html >Discussion Forums: >www.s4.invisionfree.com/CCPS > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ################### From: harryq1972 at hotmail.com (Harry Q) Date: Sat Jul 9 16:52:14 2005 Subject: [CP] Wanted: U. juncea and U. resupinata Reversed Bladderwort Utricularia resupinata Southern Bladderwort Utricularia juncea Wolf ################### From: wkfurukawa at raytheon.com (Weston K Furukawa) Date: Sat Jul 9 19:35:44 2005 Subject: [CP] 50 Packs of Byblis liniflora seeds up for grabs Jeremiah, I would like a packet of byblis seeds. I will send you $2.00 for the padded envelope. - wes "Jeremiah Harris" To Sent by: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion Cp-bounces@omnist group" erra.com cc Subject 07/09/2005 01:08 [CP] 50 Packs of Byblis liniflora PM seeds up for grabs Please respond to Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Hello everyone, I have 50 packs of Byblis liniflora seeds up for grabs. There are about 10-20 seeds in each pack. They are very fresh just collected within the last month. If you would like a pack you have two options. #1 Just send a sase to the address below. #2 If you are worried about them getting smashed in the mail send $2.00 and I will send them to you in a padded envelope. It is your choice. If you could just shoot me a quick email saying you want some so I can have a rough idea of how many packs are spoken for that would really help. If you don't mind putting a note in the envelope saying it is for the Byblis liniflora seed that would be great as well. Email me if you have any questions. thanks -Jeremiah- ________________________________________________ Colorado Carnivorous Plant Society Jeremiah Harris 712 Columbia Rd Colorado Springs CO 80904 719-578-8123 AIM: Nepenthesrajah jeremiahsplants@adelphia.net http://www.geocities.com/colorado_carnivorousplantsociety/index.html Discussion Forums: www.s4.invisionfree.com/CCPS _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: n9lya at blueriver.net (Jerry) Date: Sat Jul 9 19:47:05 2005 Subject: [CP] 50 Packs of Byblis liniflora seeds up for grabs Hi I would like a pack and will send $2 ... Jerry Kutche To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 9:35 PM > Jeremiah, > > I would like a packet of byblis seeds. I will send you $2.00 for the > padded envelope. > > - wes > > > > > > > "Jeremiah Harris" > adelphia.net> To > Sent by: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion > Cp-bounces@omnist group" > erra.com cc > > Subject > 07/09/2005 01:08 [CP] 50 Packs of Byblis liniflora > PM seeds up for grabs > > > Please respond to > Carnivorous Plant > Discussion group > m> > > > > > > > Hello everyone, > > I have 50 packs of Byblis liniflora seeds up for grabs. There are about > 10-20 seeds in each pack. They are very fresh just collected within the > last month. > > If you would like a pack you have two options. > > #1 Just send a sase to the address below. > > #2 If you are worried about them getting smashed in the mail send $2.00 > and > > I will send them to you in a padded envelope. > > It is your choice. > > If you could just shoot me a quick email saying you want some so I can > have > > a rough idea of how many packs are spoken for that would really help. If > you don't mind putting a note in the envelope saying it is for the Byblis > liniflora seed that would be great as well. > > Email me if you have any questions. > > thanks > -Jeremiah- > ________________________________________________ > Colorado Carnivorous Plant Society > Jeremiah Harris > 712 Columbia Rd > Colorado Springs CO 80904 > 719-578-8123 > AIM: Nepenthesrajah > jeremiahsplants@adelphia.net > http://www.geocities.com/colorado_carnivorousplantsociety/index.html > Discussion Forums: > www.s4.invisionfree.com/CCPS > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (bioexp@juno.com) Date: Sun Jul 10 08:46:11 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: D.meristocaulis **IS** a pygmy sundew! Hi Dave and all, Drosera gigantea produces asexually with droppers. I think these droppers are sort of a homologue prototype for the gemmae of pygmy sundews. I have a feeling D. meristocaulis does not form gemmae, but I still consider it a pygmy. Afterall, D. pygmaea, the quintessential pygmy, does not produce them or stipuled buds. Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California > BTW, how long has Australia's climate been such that it would cause the pygmies to need to form gemmae? Which came first the gemmae or the stipule bud (for surviving the dry summer)? Perhaps the we have a case of co-vergent evolution in which many of these species separated from each other, but were primed with a stipule bud (so-to-speak) only to develop the ability to make gemmae each on their own by being exposed to the same conditions? Dave Evans ___________________________________________________________________ Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month! Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage. Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today! ################### From: walterg at nauticom.net (Walter Greenwood) Date: Sun Jul 10 11:54:24 2005 Subject: [CP] Stanley Rehder? I think I asked this a little while ago, but nobody replied. Does anyone know who took over Stanley Rehder's CP seed business? Someone in Wilmington, I presume. He was one of the people instrumental in the passage of laws protecting Dionaea from poaching. He sold VFT and Sarracenia seeds in packets of a hundred or a thousand for many years, but turned the business over to someone else a year or two ago. -WG ################### From: Jeremiahsplants at adelphia.net (Jeremiah Harris) Date: Sun Jul 10 14:51:05 2005 Subject: [CP] 50 Packs of Byblis liniflora seeds up for grabs Hello, Just so I don't have to reply to everyone here is an update on how many seed packs I have left. As of 3:50 MST, 16 out of the 50 packs have been spoken for so I still have plenty. The 50 packs I made up yesterday but I'm sure I will be getting more seed I just did not want to give away more then I have. thanks -Jeremiah- ________________________________________________ Colorado Carnivorous Plant Society Jeremiah Harris 712 Columbia Rd Colorado Springs CO 80904 719-578-8123 AIM: Nepenthesrajah jeremiahsplants@adelphia.net http://www.geocities.com/colorado_carnivorousplantsociety/index.html Discussion Forums: www.s4.invisionfree.com/CCPS ----- Original Message ----- To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 2:08 PM > Hello everyone, > > I have 50 packs of Byblis liniflora seeds up for grabs. There are about > 10-20 seeds in each pack. They are very fresh just collected within the > last month. > > If you would like a pack you have two options. > > #1 Just send a sase to the address below. > > #2 If you are worried about them getting smashed in the mail send $2.00 > and I will send them to you in a padded envelope. > > It is your choice. > > If you could just shoot me a quick email saying you want some so I can > have a rough idea of how many packs are spoken for that would really help. > If you don't mind putting a note in the envelope saying it is for the > Byblis liniflora seed that would be great as well. > > Email me if you have any questions. > > thanks > -Jeremiah- > ________________________________________________ > Colorado Carnivorous Plant Society > Jeremiah Harris > 712 Columbia Rd > Colorado Springs CO 80904 > 719-578-8123 > AIM: Nepenthesrajah > jeremiahsplants@adelphia.net > http://www.geocities.com/colorado_carnivorousplantsociety/index.html > Discussion Forums: > www.s4.invisionfree.com/CCPS > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.17 - Release Date: 5/25/2005 > > ################### From: owns6196 at comcast.net (owns6196@comcast.net) Date: Sun Jul 10 19:35:35 2005 Subject: [CP] 50 Packs of Byblis liniflora seeds up for grabs Hello I guess I would like a packet of seeds too and if ya could tell me how to germinate them that would be great. > Hello, > > Just so I don't have to reply to everyone here is an update on how many > seed packs I have left. As of 3:50 MST, 16 out of the 50 packs have been > spoken for so I still have plenty. The 50 packs I made up yesterday but > I'm sure I will be getting more seed I just did not want to give away more > then I have. > > thanks > -Jeremiah- > ################### From: dinesh at ndbib.lanka.net (Dinesh Fernando) Date: Sun Jul 10 21:12:14 2005 Subject: [CP] David Ahrens >Just in case anyone was wondering, after all the events in London today, I personally am OK.... Glad you're ok David, I live in Sri Lanka. We've seen our own share of terrorist bombings, and know what it feels like. Best, Dinesh. ################### From: bill.weaver at hp.com (Weaver, Bill) Date: Sun Jul 10 22:25:08 2005 Subject: [CP] Ok not really a CP OK, it's not a carnivorous plant, but I am so jazzed that this is blooming I thought I would try to inform lot of other "plant people" After ten years of growing, my Amorphophallus titanum is starting to bloom. With the help of three people from The UC Berkeley Botanical Garden we packed it up and moved it from my place to the Botanical garden before it got too big to get out of my greenhouse. I expect it to bloom in a week to 10 days. There should be updates appearing on the gardens website soon: http://botanicalgarden.berkeley.edu/ Bill Weaver ################### From: Jeremiahsplants at adelphia.net (Jeremiah Harris) Date: Mon Jul 11 00:06:27 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: rainforest Don't worry about the sase I can send them out Monday if you want. I still have your address. thanks -Jeremiah- ________________________________________________ Colorado Carnivorous Plant Society Jeremiah Harris 712 Columbia Rd Colorado Springs CO 80904 719-578-8123 AIM: Nepenthesrajah jeremiahsplants@adelphia.net http://www.geocities.com/colorado_carnivorousplantsociety/index.html Discussion Forums: www.s4.invisionfree.com/CCPS ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 2:59 PM > > Well, according to Dave's site, it beats this one I mentioned by five > million years, even though this site(below) also claims to be the oldest > rainforest. > > _http://www.tamannegararesort.com/descriptions/oldrainforest.htm_ > (http://www.tamannegararesort.com/descriptions/oldrainforest.htm) > > > > Cheers, > > Joe Griffin > Lincoln, NE USA > > > In a message dated 7/9/2005 2:01:47 P.M. Central Standard Time, > Cp-request@omnisterra.com writes: > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 10:19:23 -0400 > From: > Subject: [CP] Daintree, Australia > To: "'Carnivorous Plant Discussion group'" > Message-ID: <000401c58491$3440e640$22aba8c0@ad.ess.rutgers.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Dear Sean, > > > Would this be where the Queensland sundews are from? I read a bit of > trivia > on a website, http://www.daintreerainforest.com/ , which mentions that > this > forest takes up only about 0.2% of Australia's landmass, yet holds a very > substantial percentage of species, which are found no where else. Sounds > like a fantastic place to visit! > > > Dave Evans > New Jersey, USA > www.Dangerousplants.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 266.11.17 - Release Date: 5/25/2005 > > ################### From: Jeremiahsplants at adelphia.net (Jeremiah Harris) Date: Mon Jul 11 00:12:06 2005 Subject: [CP] Re: rainforest Sorry, the last message should have been to Lois about a trade. -Jeremiah- ________________________________________________ Colorado Carnivorous Plant Society Jeremiah Harris 712 Columbia Rd Colorado Springs CO 80904 719-578-8123 AIM: Nepenthesrajah jeremiahsplants@adelphia.net http://www.geocities.com/colorado_carnivorousplantsociety/index.html Discussion Forums: www.s4.invisionfree.com/CCPS ----- Original Message ----- To: Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 2:59 PM > > Well, according to Dave's site, it beats this one I mentioned by five > million years, even though this site(below) also claims to be the oldest > rainforest. > > _http://www.tamannegararesort.com/descriptions/oldrainfor