################### From: high4voltz at hotmail.com (High4Voltz) Date: Thu Jan 1 11:20:53 2004 Subject: [CP] cartoon link A picture a friend at work sent me. http://www.angelfire.com/bug/carnivores/Carniverous_Plants_Gone_Wild.gif ################### From: kit at carnivorousplants.nyc.ny.us (Kit Halsted) Date: Thu Jan 1 17:25:16 2004 Subject: [CP] P. gigantea propagation So, I've managed to get a few plantlets to appear on leaves I pulled off of my P. gigantea. I stuck the leaves on top of some live sphagnum in a sealed terrarium & the plantlets appeared in about 3 weeks. http://www.carnivorousplants.nyc.ny.us/images/PGigantea01-01-04a.jpg http://www.carnivorousplants.nyc.ny.us/images/PGigantea01-01-04b.jpg Now I find myself wondering how & when to divide them & replant. Anybody got any tips for me? Thanks, -Kit -- Kit Halsted - kit@carnivorousplants.nyc.ny.us Brooklyn, NY, USDA Zone 7a ################### From: Mybog at aol.com (Mybog@aol.com) Date: Fri Jan 2 20:50:58 2004 Subject: [CP] Bonnie Dodds/Rivers?? Bonnie, Have been trying to reconnect since you left AK. Happy to see you are now so close to all of our Western cp hotspots! Hawk ################### From: pinguiculacp at hotmail.com (Michael Lu) Date: Fri Jan 2 23:38:41 2004 Subject: [CP] RE: P.gigantea propagation >Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 20:25:01 -0500 >From: Kit Halsted >Subject: [CP] P. gigantea propagation >To: Cp@omnisterra.com >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > >So, I've managed to get a few plantlets to appear on leaves I pulled >off of my P. gigantea. I stuck the leaves on top of some live >sphagnum in a sealed terrarium & the plantlets appeared in about 3 >weeks. > >http://www.carnivorousplants.nyc.ny.us/images/PGigantea01-01-04a.jpg > >http://www.carnivorousplants.nyc.ny.us/images/PGigantea01-01-04b.jpg > >Now I find myself wondering how & when to divide them & replant. >Anybody got any tips for me? > >Thanks, >-Kit >-- >Kit Halsted - kit@carnivorousplants.nyc.ny.us >Brooklyn, NY, USDA Zone 7a > Hi Kit, I would wait until the plantlets start developing some roots before dividing and replanting them. By that time the original leaf will probably be withered and the plantlets should be easy to separate. Michael CA,US _________________________________________________________________ Have fun customizing MSN Messenger — learn how here! http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_customize ################### From: AppleCakeTeaRoom at aol.com (AppleCakeTeaRoom@aol.com) Date: Sat Jan 3 00:09:12 2004 Subject: [CP] Re: CPs at Lowes Hello All, Just to update you all on the Sarracenias and VFTs that I purchased from Lowes roughly a month ago for very cheap :o) The S. rubra's and S. purpurea venosa's were shocked by the sudden bright light outside (after I'm sure a few dark months of indoor life at Lowes), and the leaves burned off. It could be because of the light, or dormancy, but with the temps in the 50-70's roughly all month, I'm going to guess that the sun did it. No harm tho as they should be in dormancy anywho, and the bases are still green and firm. The VFTs had dead leaves to begin with. Today as I was poking around the bog, I noticed that all of them (even the ones that I considered had no hope of revival) were beginning to put out little leaves! So I'm quite proud of myself, even tho all I did was purchase them, stick them in the bog and leave them alone. I've returned to the same Lowes a few more times, no new CPs in yet. With the new plants, I've run completely out of space now. Thus, tomorrow I'll be installing two new bogs; one for Sarracenias, and the other for seedlings and not yet mature plants. Uh oh, I've surely been bitten by the CP bug, and it looks as if it's a chornic and progressive condition! :-o Also I'll be setting up a small terrarium for two N. ampullaria, 'green form' and 'speckled.' I was thinking about adding a butterwort or two as well. Its a small setup, but it should work well for these plants. This will be the first terrarium I've setup for CPs, so I'm quite excited :o) Any suggestions, hints or tips for this mini project would surely be appreciated. Lots of "green" activity for me tomorrow. I'm looking forward to it. Happy 2004! ################### From: sander at ig.net (Sander) Date: Sat Jan 3 06:22:33 2004 Subject: [CP] Cephalotus mycorhizal? Hi Frederick, >please take a look at following picture > >http://www.dehaan.net/cp/carniflora2003/images/IMG_0008.jpg >(I think the picture is copyrighted by Mr. Dehaan) Indeed they are :) >What you see is a large number of plants at a Dutch >commercial facility called Carniflora, now: >- plants are from TC so considered genetically identical >- plants grow centimeters from each other so have the > same environment (humidity, light,...) >- plants grow in the same soil > >yet there are no two alike, one has no leaves, the other >no pitchers and the size of them is as variable. What >strikes me is the difference in mosses that grow in the >pots. Could this be the indication of a strong mycorhizal >relationship or influence? I think there might be some reasons to explaine this: - While I was there the owner of the greenhouse told me they grew almost everything from seed and although I've seen the motherplants as well (see other photo's on that link) I'm not sure if they do this with Cephalotus as well - They might select the larger plants and sell them, leaving the smaller ones behind and thus greating a difference Don't know about the mosses... Kind regards, Sander ################### From: Writerguy67 at aol.com (Writerguy67@aol.com) Date: Sat Jan 3 08:47:38 2004 Subject: [CP] Re: P. gigantea propagation Kit, When I've propagated Pinguicula species by leaf cuttings, I usually let the plantlets remain on their parent leaf until (a) the leaf melts around the plantlets, leaving them free in the media or (b), if there appears to be any danger that the creeping rot of the dying host leaf will endanger the new plantlets, carefully separating the plantlets with tweezers when it appears that they have enough rootlets to survive the ordeal. I know that doesn't sound very precise, but I rarely have to resort to plan (b) (although I tend to propagate from smaller-leaved species that might not present such a potential for rot. I've recently propagated P. debbertiana from summer non-carnivorous leaves (with high success following plan (a) above). I'm currently trying a large form of P. agnata and an immense form of P. moranensis (thanks to the generosity of William DiLapi :-) ). These larger leaves, particularly on the still-carnivorous P. moranensis, would present more of a situation you're facing with the large-leaved P. gigantea. The plantlets on your photos look healthy, and the parent leaf appears to be dessicating as it dies along the margins. My guess would be that you can probably leave the plantlets in place. I hope that helps. ################### From: djiezus at eudoramail.com (Frederick JM Depuydt) Date: Sat Jan 3 08:49:38 2004 Subject: [CP] albino Sarracenia Hello all, well, here's a picture I took yesterday of that albino seedling I posted about last week: http://home.petflytrap.com/nuljin/albino.jpg I didn't find a TC'er on such short notice, so I made an attempt at grafting the tiny apical bud into a 1 year old sarracenia seedling. It's not that difficult and I'm gonna try it with some other sarrs just to get the hang of the procedure, in case I come across other strange stuff in the future that has zero survival chance. If it works (slim chance but what the heck) I'll keep you posted. Frederick Need a new email address that people can remember Check out the new EudoraMail at http://www.eudoramail.com ################### From: nepenthesdave at hotmail.com (David Ahrens) Date: Sat Jan 3 10:30:32 2004 Subject: [CP] Fluorescent light at Costco Bill, I haven´t seen these lights at Costco, but they are probably there. We have quite a few Costco´s in this country, we do a lot of things that you do in the US, go to war with Iraq, watch Friends (some of us do), wear Nikons on holiday, etc. I drive everyone bananas at work saying how fantastic Costco is, I have been a member since 1995. I must admit, I haven´t seen these lights, but knowing Costco, they are bound to be quite cheap. Regards, David Ahrens, London. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with cool new emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Sat Jan 3 14:14:38 2004 Subject: [CP] CP Photos used without permission: Who is eBay user timmytsgt? Hi folks, A friend just pointed out that ebay user timmytsgt is using a couple of my photos without permission and I suspect he is using some other people's photos as well. It's polite to ask for permission before using someone else's photos and, if you get it, to provide a link to the website you got them from. timmytsgt, if you are reading this please email me. If anyone else reading this knows who this person is, please email me directly. He claims to be from "Crazy Little Idaho". Meanwhile, here is a list of all his auctions, maybe someone else will notice that he's used one of their photos without permission too. :( http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=timmytsgt&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=50 I notice that he is offering small packets of seed as well. I sincerely hope these aren't ICPS seedbank seed being split up into smaller packets for more money per packet. I'm not sure who else saw this but someone else was doing this a while ago. Gotta love eBay. Thanks, Matt -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-= ################### From: tdstubb at sofnet.com (Tom Stubblefield) Date: Sat Jan 3 14:51:37 2004 Subject: [CP] CP Photos used without permission: Who is eBay user Matt, I can give him grief on your behalf. :) I've asked him a question regarding the seed and should have his email address as soon as he replies. If you want it, I'll send it to you personally. Most of the time, owners are willing to allow their photos to be used in an auction. Tom Stubblefield in the cloudy corner of Mo. ################### From: myrmecophile at armyants.org (Gordon C. Snelling) Date: Sat Jan 3 15:08:06 2004 Subject: [CP] Permissions to use photos. I would contact the people at ebay. While I would be willing to let someone use any photos of mine provided they asked, once the photos were used without permission all bets are off and I would be going after him. NO ifs ands or buts. If you let ebay know they may well yank his adds. -- Gordon New World Army Ants http://www.armyants.org Notes From Underground http://www.notesfromunderground.org ################### From: d_muscipula at hotmail.com (D. muscipula) Date: Sat Jan 3 19:07:28 2004 Subject: [CP] CP Photos used without permission: Who is eBay user I'm actually amazed there are two CP growers from/in Idaho. Wow. Crazy Little Idaho indeed. I thought it was just me that was crazy. Sorry to hear about him hijacking your photos. I hope everything gets resolved without bloodshed... Happy New Year everyone! ----- Original Message ----- To: "CP List" Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 3:14 PM > Hi folks, > > A friend just pointed out that ebay user timmytsgt is using a couple of my > photos without permission and I suspect he is using some other people's > photos as well. > > It's polite to ask for permission before using someone else's photos and, if > you get it, to provide a link to the website you got them from. timmytsgt, > if you are reading this please email me. If anyone else reading this knows > who this person is, please email me directly. He claims to be from "Crazy > Little Idaho". > > Meanwhile, here is a list of all his auctions, maybe someone else will > notice that he's used one of their photos without permission too. :( ################### From: mail at utricularia.net (Christian Dietz) Date: Sun Jan 4 01:53:39 2004 Subject: [CP] Re: CP Photos used without permission: Who is eBay user2 Hi Matt, I don't know, who this ebayer is. But we have several Problems on our german Ebay. Here are some auctions, that you use photos (i think) without permissions. http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=25868&item=2368416807 http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2368416812&category=25868 http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2368416811&category=25868 http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2368416810&category=25868 http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2368416806&category=25868 http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2368730778&category=25868 This list is just a small example. You will definitely find more pictures used without permission, if you look for them. Thes auctions above are all from the same user. If someone sees any pictures from my Homepage on Ebay without permission, it would be great if you could give me a short note. best wishes, Christian ################### From: kdubash at vsnl.com (KDubash) Date: Sun Jan 4 03:31:45 2004 Subject: [CP] novice needing advice. As a complete beginner, who knows absolutely nothing about cp's, and wishes to learn how to germinate, propagate, and take care of them, could anyone suggest a book/books that I should have and could refer to when in need? I live in India, and these books will not be readily available. I will thus need to order these from a book store I know of, and he in turn would have to import these. I would need the complete title, and the authors, for me to place such as order. Many thanks, K Dubash ################### From: ksanders at clas.ufl.edu (Keith Sanders) Date: Sun Jan 4 06:04:10 2004 Subject: [CP] CP Photos used without permission: Who is eBay user Matt, I think that eBay is pretty sensitive about preserving copyright - if you report the problem to them, I think that they will remove them. thanks, Keith Sundew wrote: > Hi folks, > > A friend just pointed out that ebay user timmytsgt is using a couple of my > photos without permission and I suspect he is using some other people's > photos as well. > > It's polite to ask for permission before using someone else's photos and, if > you get it, to provide a link to the website you got them from. timmytsgt, > if you are reading this please email me. If anyone else reading this knows > who this person is, please email me directly. He claims to be from "Crazy > Little Idaho". > > Meanwhile, here is a list of all his auctions, maybe someone else will > notice that he's used one of their photos without permission too. :( > > http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=timmytsgt&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=50 > > > I notice that he is offering small packets of seed as well. I sincerely > hope these aren't ICPS seedbank seed being split up into smaller packets for > more money per packet. I'm not sure who else saw this but someone else was > doing this a while ago. Gotta love eBay. > > Thanks, > Matt > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > -=-=-= > SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 > DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA > I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, > South America or other tropical / subtropical places. > Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > -=-=-= > > _______________________________________________ > Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: srcurrie at currieweb.com (Steven R. Currie) Date: Sun Jan 4 07:25:36 2004 Subject: [CP] ebay pictures I suggest sending the ebayer an email and ask hime to cease using the pics. In the past people have run scams with other peoples pics. One time a fellow took pics off of a World War II reenactor site and tried to sell fictitious German Army equipment. On topic: Does anybody have a good idea of germanation time of Sarracenia Purpurea Purpurea. I started 30 seeds from the seed bank 4 weeks ago. Today has been exactly 4 weeks. Steven R. Currie Freedom is not free! ################### From: DISKUS at teleline.es (Antonio Cerqueira) Date: Sun Jan 4 07:52:37 2004 Subject: [CP] Hi and CP in Spain Hello!! My name is Antonio, and I just arrive to this e-mail list and to this amazing world of CP culture. I have some experience on plant tissue culture and I want to collect some CP plants so I would like to purchase some CP. Because of that, I'm looking for CP sellers from Spain (I live in Madrid) or others parts from Europe to get seeds or plants. I check the Spanish webpage of Ebay and I didn't find nothing. Can anyone help me? Thank you in advance, best regards and sorry for my English, Antonio Madrid (Spain) ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (sundew@hotmail.com) Date: Sun Jan 4 08:43:55 2004 Subject: [CP] CP Photos used without permission: Who is eBay user Hi Tom, Yes, that would be appreciated, thanks. FWIW, I should point out that D.kaieteurensis, which is one of the photos of mine which he is using without permission, is often misidentified. If he doesn't have his own plants to take photos of then I would automatically assume the seed is of something other than kaiet, as it usually is. Matt Message: 8 Wrom: WCUFPEGAUTFJMVRESKPNKMBIPBARHDMNNSKVFVW timmytsgt? To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" Message-ID: <000a01c3d24c$6c13f2e0$44893745@pegasus> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Matt, I can give him grief on your behalf. :) I've asked him a question regarding the seed and should have his email address as soon as he replies. If you want it, I'll send it to you personally. Most of the time, owners are willing to allow their photos to be used in an auction. Tom Stubblefield in the cloudy corner of Mo. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-= ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Sun Jan 4 08:55:53 2004 Subject: [CP] Re: CP Photos used without permission: Who is eBay user2 Hi Christian, A few of those photos look familiar to me, especially the one with both kaieteurensis and felix. This photo was taken by my buddy Fernando. Gordon, I take copyright infringement pretty seriously. In this case, I'd probably be fine if the guy made up for it with a link to my site but I'd have to resolve it with him privately. I'm not furious, I'm just annoyed. eBay seems to bring out the worst in some wannabe entrepreneurs looking to get rich quick. Matt Message: 3 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: <3FF7E250.6070302@utricularia.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Hi Matt, I don't know, who this ebayer is. But we have several Problems on our german Ebay. Here are some auctions, that you use photos (i think) without permissions. http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=25868&item=2368416807 http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2368416812&category=25868 http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2368416811&category=25868 http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2368416810&category=25868 http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2368416806&category=25868 http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2368730778&category=25868 This list is just a small example. You will definitely find more pictures used without permission, if you look for them. Thes auctions above are all from the same user. If someone sees any pictures from my Homepage on Ebay without permission, it would be great if you could give me a short note. best wishes, Christian -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-= ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Sun Jan 4 08:59:56 2004 Subject: [CP] re: CP Photos used without permission: Who is eBay user Hi Keith, Actually, I think eBay makes the whole process pretty annoying, like you actually have to send them something in writing, maybe even a signed affadavit saying that you own the copyright to those photos. I don't mind doing this, but they don't just accept your complaint as factual. I once complained to eBay when I knew for a fact that someone was bidding on his own auctions to jack the price (they call this shill bidding and it's illegal). Since I wasn't an eBay member at the time, they just blew me off saying that I had to be an eBay member to make any kind of complaint. Then I had a friend complain and even though we submitted all the evidence that was needed to bust this guy, they said they determined he did nothing wrong. Great, huh? Matt Message: 5 timmytsgt? To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Message-ID: <3FF81E24.7060400@clas.ufl.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Matt, I think that eBay is pretty sensitive about preserving copyright - if you report the problem to them, I think that they will remove them. thanks, Keith -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-= ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Sun Jan 4 09:02:35 2004 Subject: [CP] re: ebay pictures Hi Steven, I might just have to find that scrap of paper where I wrote my eBay user name and password down. I was just hoping to resolve this without having to go through the trouble, and though it wouldn't be so bad to let other people here know that their photos might be in use without permission. Matt Message: 6 To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group Message-ID: <3FF830A9.1070402@currieweb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I suggest sending the ebayer an email and ask hime to cease using the pics. In the past people have run scams with other peoples pics. One time a fellow took pics off of a World War II reenactor site and tried to sell fictitious German Army equipment. On topic: Does anybody have a good idea of germanation time of Sarracenia Purpurea Purpurea. I started 30 seeds from the seed bank 4 weeks ago. Today has been exactly 4 weeks. Steven R. Currie Freedom is not free! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-= ################### From: epbb at club-internet.fr (Eric Partrat) Date: Sun Jan 4 09:13:17 2004 Subject: [CP] Hi and CP in Spain Hola Antonio, Soy Eric Partrat y soy de Francia. Hablo un poco espanol : Quisas no sabes, pero hay uno forum de plantas carnivoras en espanol con personas que puedan ayudarte. Las numerosas personas de esto forum son de todos el mundo : brasil, Mexico, Espana...y todas hablan espanol y escambian semillas y plantas carnivoras. Si me recuerdo bien, hay tambien muchos espanoles. El linko directo es : http://groups.msn.com/plantascarnivoras/messageboard.msnw O si no puedes ir directamente, hay los linkos de todos los forum de plantas carnivoras en mi pagina : http://perso.club-internet.fr/epbb/pages/pages_principales/forum.htm Feliz ano nuevo Eric Partrat epbb@club-internet.fr A world of Pinguicula http://perso.club-internet.fr/epbb/ ################### From: Marcus.Rossberg at phil-fak.uni-duesseldorf.de (Marcus Rossberg) Date: Sun Jan 4 11:04:11 2004 Subject: [CP] Re: Carnivorous Palm Ivan Snyder wrote: > I would draw the line between carnivory by accident and that of > carnivory by design. I'm not sure, Ivan. Carnivory, like any other feature of a species, surely came about by evolution, no? But evolution works by random mutation and selection, i.e., by "accident", not by "design". Best wishes, Marcus ################### From: kit at carnivorousplants.nyc.ny.us (Kit Halsted) Date: Sun Jan 4 11:48:19 2004 Subject: [CP] novice needing advice. Hello: I'm sure others can suggest other books, but the basic, all-around, must-have first book is The Savage Garden by Peter D'Amato. It may help to know the publisher &/or the ISBN number for ordering: Publisher: Ten Speed Press; (May 1998) ISBN: 0898159156 There are also lots of resources on the web. One that I've found particularly helpful is the ICPS germination guide: http://www.carnivorousplants.org/seedbank/seedgermguide.htm Hope this helps, -Kit At 5:01 PM +0530 1/4/04, KDubash wrote: >As a complete beginner, who knows absolutely nothing about cp's, and wishes >to learn how to germinate, propagate, and take care of them, could anyone >suggest a book/books that I should have and could refer to when in need? > >I live in India, and these books will not be readily available. I will thus >need to order these from a book store I know of, and he in turn would have >to import these. I would need the complete title, and the authors, for me >to place such as order. > >Many thanks, > >K Dubash -- Kit Halsted - kit@carnivorousplants.nyc.ny.us Brooklyn, NY, USDA Zone 7a ################### From: kit at carnivorousplants.nyc.ny.us (Kit Halsted) Date: Sun Jan 4 11:56:09 2004 Subject: [CP] RE: P.gigantea propagation Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who replied to my questions about the P. gigantea. I will fight my impatience & wait for the parent leaf to wither away before transplanting. Thanks, -Kit -- Kit Halsted - kit@carnivorousplants.nyc.ny.us Brooklyn, NY, USDA Zone 7a ################### From: hkobayashi4 at hotmail.com (Hideka Kobayashi) Date: Sun Jan 4 13:34:27 2004 Subject: [CP] RE: Cephalotus mycorhizal? All of them are merely assumptions. 1. Plants from TC are not necessarily identical per se. Also, how uniform were they when they were acclimatized? 2. This is a common misperception about the greenhouse environment. That's why researchers randomize his plots, benches, etc. 3. How uniform? Of course, it was as uniform as it could have been, but again, this is an assumption. In short, many things can be influencing the growth of plants. I don't know how you came up with mycorrhiza for your explanation, but there are other things that may be the causes. There is always a variation in a given population. Hideka _________________________________________________________________ Enjoy a special introductory offer for dial-up Internet access — limited time only! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ################### From: fe_riva at uol.com.br (Fernando Rivadavia) Date: Sun Jan 4 14:11:48 2004 Subject: [CP] Re: CP Photos used without permission: Who is eBay user2 Hi all, > A few of those photos look familiar to me, especially the one with both > kaieteurensis and felix. This photo was taken by my buddy Fernando. You're right Matt, that pic is mine, and so are those fingers! What a creep! And to think they pay millions to have my hands in all those soap commercials and this guys thinks he can get away without paying me a penny! Hehehe! And I agree with you that if he doesn't have his own pics of the plants, then he probably doesn't have the right thing... I say burn him alive. :) Take Care, Fernando P.S. Buddy? Wasn't it "superhero"?? :):) ################### From: high4voltz at hotmail.com (High4Voltz) Date: Sun Jan 4 14:25:11 2004 Subject: [CP] Re: CP Photos used without permission: Who is eBay user2 I say feed him to his own plants. LOL Matt from MN ################### From: chelsie at tampabay.rr.com (Chelsie Vandaveer) Date: Sun Jan 4 15:09:56 2004 Subject: [CP] Re: ebay user and theft of photos Hi, Matt and all, I have been fighting eBay since September over the use of one of my photographs (same thief) and you are going to find that eBay takes copyright infringement very seriously...but just their copyrighted material...they obviously have no problem with their sellers infringing on other people's copyrights. I have emailed their fraud division and sent certified letters with full-color printouts of the pages to their headquarters. They do not even acknowledge the letters or emails. (Makes you wonder what they do for people who've been cheated out of money.) Get a lawyer, especially one versed in internet law and international copyrights. I put copyrights on all the photos I publish and the seller cropped my photo to get rid of the copyright. I now have a very hungry law firm that wants an international name and they are looking at a percentage. The firm has recommended that 5 letters be written and sent certified with return receipts; they will then begin legal proceedings. Actually, I think that those of us who've had our photographs 'borrowed' get our lawyers together and start a major class-action against both eBay and the seller. After all, who's to say that your photo wasn't worth a hundred a day + all legal fees for the period it's been posted. I have reached the point with eBay that simply removing my photo will not be considered enough...I expect to be well-compensated. This is the URL of the seller: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=8439&item=23485799 75 My URL: http://www.killerplants.com/plant-of-the-week/20011029.asp I will be in and out of town over the next two months, but I take my laptop, so you can contact me by email. Get a good lawyer--we will be much more effective if a bunch of us tackle the multi-billion dollar conglomerate, than if we go it alone. So I do not accidently trash your email, put "copyright infringement" in the Subject line. Sincerely, Chelsie ################### From: chelsie at tampabay.rr.com (Chelsie Vandaveer) Date: Sun Jan 4 15:45:49 2004 Subject: [CP] A little background information Hi, Matt and all, Just to give everyone a bit of background. Pierre Omidyar, a Tufts graduate, founded eBay and holds 20.3 percent of the stock. As of Nov. 20, 2003, Omidyar was worth approximately 6.5 billion dollars all from his eBay enterprises. Jeffrey Skoll is the second largest stockholder with 11 percent. Omidyar donates a lot of money to charities...hmmmm! It seems there are a number of problems with eBay-held companies like Pay-Pal. http://www.yoink.org/cgi-bin/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=3545 eBay has already lost a patent-infringement suit. http://news.com.com/2100-1017_3-1010397.html You can contact eBay by snail mail (certified, return receipt) at: Pierre Omidyar eBay Inc. 2145 Hamilton Avenue San Jose, California 95125 Make copies of your signed letters, send one copy to your lawyer so there's an official record. Include printouts of the 'offending' eBay page and your photos. Chelsie ################### From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk) Date: Sun Jan 4 19:18:25 2004 Subject: [CP] novice needing advice. KDubash wrote: > As a complete beginner, who knows absolutely nothing about cp's, and wishes > to learn how to germinate, propagate, and take care of them, could anyone > suggest a book/books that I should have and could refer to when in need? > > I live in India, and these books will not be readily available. I will thus > need to order these from a book store I know of, and he in turn would have > to import these. I would need the complete title, and the authors, for me > to place such as order. Hi K, The CP FAQ is pretty helpful on its own: http://sarracenia.com/faq.html If you find it insufficient to get you started, the FAQ suggests some other reference books: http://sarracenia.com/faq/faq1520.html The only book I'm personally familiar with is Scnhell's _Carnivorous Plants of the United States and Canada_ which is a great reference work for my part of the world. I've never made use of the cultivation section so I can't speak for its quality. Good luck Philip ################### From: goffinses at yahoo.com (Laurel Williams) Date: Sun Jan 4 20:20:36 2004 Subject: [CP] CP vendors in FL Hello all, I am in North Port, FL (between Sarasota and Ft. Myers) visiting my in-laws in their new home. I was curious as to whether there were any good CP vendors whose greenhouses I could visit in the area. I know that the Stove-House is in Sarasota, but have been unable to find an address and/or whether they accept visitors (I sent an email to them but haven't received a reply). Anyone know about this place in particular, or others in the area that are worth visiting? I am aware of Lee's in La Belle--that's a bit of a drive though. I didn't think to try this method of inquiry until now and only have tomorrow before I must leave, but I thought I'd give it a shot--and I'll be back if I can't make it anywhere this time. Thanks for any suggestions. Cheers, Laurel Williams afield in North Port, FL __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 http://search.yahoo.com/top2003 ################### From: ACarlson at hrsd.com (Carlson, Aaron) Date: Mon Jan 5 05:41:27 2004 Subject: [CP] Re: CP Photos used without permission: Who is eBay user... This person also had Sarracenia oreophila seeds up for auction a few days ago, but the auction has since been taken down. Whether it was by him or Ebay, I don't know. My guess is that this person is rather young and doesn't know any better and is just trying to make a few bucks to buy some more CP's....I hope. ################### From: kdubash at vsnl.com (KDubash) Date: Mon Jan 5 05:53:37 2004 Subject: [CP] media for cp seeds Hello, I have some limited experience doing in-vitro propagation of orchid seeds. Can cp seeds also be handled in a similar manner? If yes, can anyone suggest the media which could be used, and what would be the seed sterilisation protocol? Many thnaks, K Dubash ################### From: cwasson at cisco.com (Craig Wasson (cwasson)) Date: Mon Jan 5 10:00:37 2004 Subject: [CP] Watering tip for indoor pots in saucers Hi; Since I have nothing better to do while my outdoor bog sleeps and my seeds are stratifying - I thought I'd pass along a tip I recently discovered. I found it somewhat of a pain to water my many small pots sitting in small trays - especially since some shelves are crowded and access from above is not easy. I took a smaller plastic watering can and stretched a 15" piece of surgical tubing (from Home Depot) over the spout. This allows me to easily control water flow by pinching the tubing shut as I move from pot to pot - and it's much easier to reach behind and around other plants. It has cut my watering time to less than half what it was before, eliminates nearly all shuffling of pots to water them, and has reduced the spillage and overflowing that was previously wasting water and generally making a mess. Be sure to raise the tubing above the can to drain it when letting go or it'll siphon water out. Perhaps this is a well-known tip - but I had not seen this in any of the web sites or books. Happy watering! Craig ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Mon Jan 5 10:50:17 2004 Subject: [CP] Re: CP Photos used without permission: Who is eBay Hi Fern, Yeah, I'd recognize those fingers anywhere.... you know, after all those soap commercials and all.... As for the downgrade from superhero to mere buddy, that's what happens when you forget about Drosera in favor of other CP, traitor!!! ;) Only kidding. You still qualify as a CP superhero in my book... By the way... ehem... I haven't gotten replies to my last few emails to you - did you get them ok? Later, Matt Message: 1 user2 To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" Message-ID: <004b01c3d311$072250a0$1d7674a7@abmexico> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi all, > A few of those photos look familiar to me, especially the one with both > kaieteurensis and felix. This photo was taken by my buddy Fernando. You're right Matt, that pic is mine, and so are those fingers! What a creep! And to think they pay millions to have my hands in all those soap commercials and this guys thinks he can get away without paying me a penny! Hehehe! And I agree with you that if he doesn't have his own pics of the plants, then he probably doesn't have the right thing... I say burn him alive. :) Take Care, Fernando P.S. Buddy? Wasn't it "superhero"?? :):) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-= ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Mon Jan 5 10:51:08 2004 Subject: [CP] Re: CP Photos used without permission: Who is eBay Hi Matt, I'd say the same but I'm not sure he even has his own plants! :( Matt Message: 2 user2 To: "Carnivorous Plant Discussion group" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I say feed him to his own plants. LOL Matt from MN -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-= ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Mon Jan 5 10:53:09 2004 Subject: [CP] Re: ebay user and theft of photos Hi Chelsie, Sorry to hear about your similar problem. I'll try to resolve this situation with the person who used my photos without permission. If it yields immediate results which I am happy with, I'll probably let it slide as I don't see much damage done in this case. If I don't get immediate cooperation, we can discuss this further. Thanks, Matt Message: 3 To: Message-ID: <002001c3d317$dc216330$7d01a8c0@Hew> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, Matt and all, I have been fighting eBay since September over the use of one of my photographs (same thief) and you are going to find that eBay takes copyright infringement very seriously...but just their copyrighted material...they obviously have no problem with their sellers infringing on other people's copyrights. I have emailed their fraud division and sent certified letters with full-color printouts of the pages to their headquarters. They do not even acknowledge the letters or emails. (Makes you wonder what they do for people who've been cheated out of money.) Get a lawyer, especially one versed in internet law and international copyrights. I put copyrights on all the photos I publish and the seller cropped my photo to get rid of the copyright. I now have a very hungry law firm that wants an international name and they are looking at a percentage. The firm has recommended that 5 letters be written and sent certified with return receipts; they will then begin legal proceedings. Actually, I think that those of us who've had our photographs 'borrowed' get our lawyers together and start a major class-action against both eBay and the seller. After all, who's to say that your photo wasn't worth a hundred a day + all legal fees for the period it's been posted. I have reached the point with eBay that simply removing my photo will not be considered enough...I expect to be well-compensated. This is the URL of the seller: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=8439&item=23485799 75 My URL: http://www.killerplants.com/plant-of-the-week/20011029.asp I will be in and out of town over the next two months, but I take my laptop, so you can contact me by email. Get a good lawyer--we will be much more effective if a bunch of us tackle the multi-billion dollar conglomerate, than if we go it alone. So I do not accidently trash your email, put "copyright infringement" in the Subject line. Sincerely, Chelsie -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-= ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (sundew@hotmail.com) Date: Mon Jan 5 11:18:01 2004 Subject: [CP] Re: CP Photos used without permission: Who is eBay Hi Aaron, There seem to be a lot of people who get caught up in the selling frenzy on eBay and plenty of them do unethical things for money. I am sure that some of them are young and might not know any better, but there are also a lot of older people who do know better or should know better. Like I said above, I'll see how this person handles this situation before I decide what I'm going to do. I remember seeing packets of 10 VFT seed sell for $5.00 and up (sometimes $18?!?!) quite a while ago, thinking how the people who pay those prices could join the ICPS and buy a lot more seed for only a little more, contributing to a good cause and receiving CPN at the same time. Gotta love eBay... Thanks, Matt Message: 7 Wrom: YUCDDJBLVLMHAALPTCXLYRWTQTIPWIGYOKST user... To: "'Cp@omnisterra.com'" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This person also had Sarracenia oreophila seeds up for auction a few days ago, but the auction has since been taken down. Whether it was by him or Ebay, I don't know. My guess is that this person is rather young and doesn't know any better and is just trying to make a few bucks to buy some more CP's....I hope. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-= ################### From: walker at omnisterra.com (Rick Walker) Date: Mon Jan 5 11:51:20 2004 Subject: [CP] Apology from timmytsgt (fwd) Attached is a forward of a contrite apology from Timothy Anders about using photos without permission. I would go easy on him. My policy about my own photos is that anyone can use them for any purpose whatsoever. Once I post them on the web, I am thrilled if they are used for term reports, study, occasional newspaper illustrations etc. I consider it a polite courtesy if my pictures are credited to me, but realize that the web is, by nature, a dynamic shared space. My interest is promoting conservation and understanding of CP, not becoming famous for my photography. If I felt that a particular picture was a marketable commodity, I would only post low resolution thumbnails and require some commercial agreement before releasing high resolution copies. If I were to be very concerned about credit, I would consider putting my name/web-site in big letters across the image in a way that it could not be removed. My opinion however is that such an egotistic statement disfigures the pictures. Best regards, -- Rick Walker ------- Forwarded Message To: I am timmytsgt. These seeds were taken from my own plants. I do appologize to all for using photos. I did not even think about it, I just did a search for photos as I did not have any really good photos of my own plants that I not longer have now that I live in this cold climate and do not have a proper greenhouse yet. I am not a dealer. I am stationed here with the Airforce. I did not think about asking for permission, I did not mean to be rude or offend. I will remove all photos, but would be grateful if I could continue using them. I want to get rid of my seed before it is no longer viable and am trying to get together the cash to buy some of the materials to build myself a new greenhouse so that I can again enjoy my plants. Again, I did not mean any harm. Please send this e-mail to all and if anyone wants to send me an e-mail, I will gladly reply. Tim. PS: Also, I would be happy to create a link and or give credit for the pics. I don't know how to create a link though. Tim. ################### From: tamlindd at yahoo.com (TamlinD Dawnstar) Date: Mon Jan 5 12:16:42 2004 Subject: [CP] Re: Unauthorized use of photos Hi all, Hmmmm, it seems I am included in this since one of those photo's in question is mine! Although I do not mind the community's use of my photo's in general, I find that the attitude of Ebay's (and the seller's) indifference to their theft in this instance perturbing in the extreme. Let me know if I can assist with any legal forays! Yours, William Dawnstar __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 http://search.yahoo.com/top2003 ################### From: jim_miller at mindspring.com (Jim Miller) Date: Mon Jan 5 12:24:54 2004 Subject: [CP] Photo theft Greetings to all and welcome to 2004! I have been reading your posts about people lifting photos for their own use. Here's my experience: The same thing happens continually in the world of sea shells. I have posted photos to the Jacksonville Shell Club Web site (as have many others) at www.jaxshells.org. Sadly, there is a perception that publication on the Web (a free medium) constitutes free use (or as the law calls it, "fair use"). The truth is that almost nobody who posts to the Internet (or has their photos published in various magazines) actually has followed all the proper steps to copyright their material. The old "down home" theory of mailing photos or art to yourself holds little to no weight in court. Truth is, this will probably never change unless and until the government takes over control of the Internet. Is that what we want? Considering all the people it would take to police every site, a "subscription" to the Net will likely cost about $50 a month or more. Companies like eBay will not spend the time and energy, let alone the bucks, to chase down someone who may or may not be adhering to the rather loose "fair use" concept of Web site postings. Let's also look at the music world. Many rap and hip-hop songs make use of drum beats (or even entire instrumental sections) from other albums, yet to the best of my knowledge, not a single person has been forced to pay for that use (except for one "artist" who thought it would be cute to include the audio from the "THX" opening from certain movies and DVDs -- but there he was messing with Lucas Arts). I spent over a decade creating digital samples of acoustic instruments, which I sold and licensed. Every once in a while, someone would contact me and say, "I have some great sounds to trade!" Almost 100% of the time, those sounds would be my own, yet the person was never a customer. His excuse? "Someone gave them to me." Okay, so that is not a punishable offense under existing laws, though we could track down the person who originally duplicated my discs, and he would likely claim the same thing. How much money are we prepared to spend forcing people to follow the law as it relates to copyrights? Your normal attorney will charge a minimum of about $50 an hour. So let's say it takes him 10-20 hours to finally track down the person who used sounds, art, photos, etc. that belong to us. The law says very clearly that the first step is a cease and desist order. So he/she says okay, they won't use your photo any more. Now you are out $500-1000, and all you got was one person's "promise" not to do it any longer. Hardly worth it. The bottom line is that it makes for lively discussions here, but ultimately, nothing will change. A company like eBay is not going to commit resources to track down a person who will claim either "fair use" of Internet images, or claim he or she received them from someone else. While eBay may seem like a gigantic corporation to you and I, it is actually a fairly small company with many parts (like PayPal), each of which makes a small amount of maney off each transaction (plus some additional revenues from advertisers). I am almost certain that someone will eventually start making copies of my CP DVD (if they have not done so already). The fair use law says you can make a backup copy, but maybe that person "accidentally" sells (or simply gives) the backup copy to someone who also claims he has the right to make a backup and then on and on. While all this seems very clear cut to those of us who have been hit the hardest, I am afraid that there is truly very little we can do in terms of the Internet. There are too many loopholes. Plus, most of us have never actually filed a copyright for any image (that costs money). Slapping a big copyright notice on your photos may help, though if you don't stick it smack dab in the middle of the image, it will be easy to crop out. We cannot condone the activity of lifting our work, but I am afraid we must come to accept it. Or at least until someone with a small fortune decides that he or she will "right this wrong." I'm not holding my breath . . . Best regards, Jim ################### From: meadow at bealenet.com (Phil Sheridan) Date: Mon Jan 5 12:30:00 2004 Subject: [CP] Cephalotus seedlings and crosses Hi Folks: Just a note to let you know we continue to get germinations on our Cephalorus seed that we produced from crosses this summer. After producing two cotyledons we are getting our first small pitchers. If we have an adequate supply of Cephalotus flowers this year we might be able to produce Cephalotus seed as part of our crossing service. We will keep you posted on this. In the meantime, we have an ample supply of Cephalotus plants on our catalog at www.pitcherplant.org. Sincerely, Phil Sheridan Director Meadowview Biological Research Station http://www.bealenet.com ################### From: edwards at net2000.com.au (Paul Edwards) Date: Mon Jan 5 12:44:08 2004 Subject: [CP] Photo's on the web C'mon, guys. Is this getting a little out of hand? Are we getting a little paranoid and/or selfish? I mean, does it really matter if someone uses your photos? Are you suffering a loss (of money or credibility) because of it? Or is it a little sulk because you're not seeing your name credited. If it doesn't harm you, and is not harmful for the CP community in general, it doesn't really matter, does it? I think anything that spreads/promotes CPs (esp. to the general public) is good. I would be honoured to have one of my pics on eBay, whether I was credited with it or not. After all, I know it's mine. Paul E. Vic, Australia. ################### From: tmalcolm at islandnet.com (Tim Malcolm) Date: Mon Jan 5 12:49:29 2004 Subject: [CP] More about CP Photos used without permission While everyones getting upset about unauthourized photo use, have a look at the photo gallery at this website: http://www.plantarara.com/ I notice that the U. welwitchii pic is one of mine, although they seem to have mirror-imaged it in a photo editor. Many of the other pictures look a bit familiar as well - I think I have seen them on other people's web sites. I'm not particularly concerned, myself, but I'd be interested to know who else's pictures they've used. tim. ################### From: tamlindd at yahoo.com (TamlinD Dawnstar) Date: Mon Jan 5 12:57:00 2004 Subject: [CP] Re: Ebay Photo's Hi all, OK, with Tim's apology satisfaction has been acheived on my end. It isn't the use that I object to but the indifference, esp. by big business. After all it is a bit of a compliment when someone lifts your photo's for their use I guess. I just wish those using them would make some effort to contact the owners of the photo's PRIOR to their web publishing. I have had photo's I posted to determine ID by consensus re-posted under erroneous names, and this is not right. It just adds to the confusion in ID already running wild. Yours, William Dawnstar P.S. Jay, if you are reading this, please note that my former name William DiLapi was legally changed when I re-married in 2002 to Dawnstar. All friends should update their files accordingly ;-) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 http://search.yahoo.com/top2003 ################### From: tamlindd at yahoo.com (TamlinD Dawnstar) Date: Mon Jan 5 13:13:11 2004 Subject: [CP] Re: Unauthorized USe of Photo's Hi Jim, I have to agree with you. Once the photo's are out there, there is really little that can be done legally to curtail their use, unless one has gone the distance to actually copyright the material and can afford a legal battle. This probably excludes most of us, what with spending all our pennies just to keep our plants! In the end, it will be personal ethics and not law that determines civil behavior regarding the use of web published files. The alternative to sharing the photos is to maintain one's intellectual property by not publishing it in electronic format at all, and that would not be a service to anyone! Still, community censure of this sort of behavior is to be encouraged: it will help to educate others as to the possible implications of such web theft. If nothing else, it shows the ignorant person that there will be vocal objections raised, as they rightfully should be, and education will be the result for many. It isn't always easy to source out the authors of the photo's being used, but it isn't impossible either. If someone isn't willing to hoe the row, they shouldn't be picking the corn. Yours, William Dawnstar ______________________________________________________ Message: 7 To: Cp@omnisterra.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Greetings to all and welcome to 2004! I have been reading your posts about people lifting photos for their own use. Here's my experience: The same thing happens continually in the world of sea shells. I have posted photos to the Jacksonville Shell Club Web site (as have many others) at www.jaxshells.org. Sadly, there is a perception that publication on the Web (a free medium) constitutes free use (or as the law calls it, "fair use"). The truth is that almost nobody who posts to the Internet (or has their photos published in various magazines) actually has followed all the proper steps to copyright their material. The old "down home" theory of mailing photos or art to yourself holds little to no weight in court. Truth is, this will probably never change unless and until the government takes over control of the Internet. Is that what we want? Considering all the people it would take to police every site, a "subscription" to the Net will likely cost about $50 a month or more. Companies like eBay will not spend the time and energy, let alone the bucks, to chase down someone who may or may not be adhering to the rather loose "fair use" concept of Web site postings. Let's also look at the music world. Many rap and hip-hop songs make use of drum beats (or even entire instrumental sections) from other albums, yet to the best of my knowledge, not a single person has been forced to pay for that use (except for one "artist" who thought it would be cute to include the audio from the "THX" opening from certain movies and DVDs -- but there he was messing with Lucas Arts). I spent over a decade creating digital samples of acoustic instruments, which I sold and licensed. Every once in a while, someone would contact me and say, "I have some great sounds to trade!" Almost 100% of the time, those sounds would be my own, yet the person was never a customer. His excuse? "Someone gave them to me." Okay, so that is not a punishable offense under existing laws, though we could track down the person who originally duplicated my discs, and he would likely claim the same thing. How much money are we prepared to spend forcing people to follow the law as it relates to copyrights? Your normal attorney will charge a minimum of about $50 an hour. So let's say it takes him 10-20 hours to finally track down the person who used sounds, art, photos, etc. that belong to us. The law says very clearly that the first step is a cease and desist order. So he/she says okay, they won't use your photo any more. Now you are out $500-1000, and all you got was one person's "promise" not to do it any longer. Hardly worth it. The bottom line is that it makes for lively discussions here, but ultimately, nothing will change. A company like eBay is not going to commit resources to track down a person who will claim either "fair use" of Internet images, or claim he or she received them from someone else. While eBay may seem like a gigantic corporation to you and I, it is actually a fairly small company with many parts (like PayPal), each of which makes a small amount of maney off each transaction (plus some additional revenues from advertisers). I am almost certain that someone will eventually start making copies of my CP DVD (if they have not done so already). The fair use law says you can make a backup copy, but maybe that person "accidentally" sells (or simply gives) the backup copy to someone who also claims he has the right to make a backup and then on and on. While all this seems very clear cut to those of us who have been hit the hardest, I am afraid that there is truly very little we can do in terms of the Internet. There are too many loopholes. Plus, most of us have never actually filed a copyright for any image (that costs money). Slapping a big copyright notice on your photos may help, though if you don't stick it smack dab in the middle of the image, it will be easy to crop out. We cannot condone the activity of lifting our work, but I am afraid we must come to accept it. Or at least until someone with a small fortune decides that he or she will "right this wrong." I'm not holding my breath . . . Best regards, Jim __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 http://search.yahoo.com/top2003 ################### From: john.welhs at terra.com.br (Jonh Welchi) Date: Mon Jan 5 14:27:44 2004 Subject: [CP] Transporting VFT's Hi guys, It's been a while since I've written to the list - but I've been accompanying discussions for a number of years now. (For those of you who have long memories, I'm the Australian guy who lives in Brazil and has a small, but expanding, CP business supplying to Rio de Janeiro, Belo Horizonte, and surrounding cities). I'd like to open a discussion forum on the means by which VFT's could be transported in largish quantities by air freight such as to cause minimum disruption to their appearance. Plants need to be bear rooted - although the possibility of wrapping moist sphagnum around their roots remains an option. What I wish to avoid is the use of the system in which the plants are placed in plastic bags to the detriment of the leaves and traps. I'm thinking along the lines of well established methods used for the transport of chocolates, and similar items, in which the leaves would be protected by an "inner" plastic tray, combined with a technique used in the transport of glass bulbed pH electrodes in which the bulb is protected, and at the same time retained moist, by the use of a rubber "teat". Does such a transport system exist? (I don't want to reinvent the wheel!). If any of you guys deal with the wholesale commercialization of CP's (or know of anyone who does), please contact me off-list. Happy Growing, John Welsh. ################### From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk) Date: Mon Jan 5 14:37:18 2004 Subject: [CP] Photo theft Jim Miller wrote: > Sadly, there is a > perception that publication on the Web (a free medium) constitutes free > use (or as the law calls it, "fair use"). I hope you are being facetious! Fair use entitles people to use someone else's work *only* "for purposes of commentary and criticism". Wholesale appropration of images, accredited or otherwise, absolutely does not fall into the domain of fair use. For more info, see http://fairuse.stanford.edu/ > The truth is that almost > nobody who posts to the Internet (or has their photos published in > various magazines) actually has followed all the proper steps to > copyright their material. The old "down home" theory of mailing photos > or art to yourself holds little to no weight in court. I'm not familiar with the down home theory but in any case it isn't necessary. Work (a photograph or an article for instance) published on the Internet or in a magazine is *automatically* protected under U.S. copyright. Again, from the Web site cited above: "Until 1989, a published work had to contain a valid copyright notice to receive protection under the copyright laws. But this requirement is no longer in force -- works first published after March 1, 1989 need not include a copyright notice to gain protection under the law." > Let's also look at the music world. Many rap and hip-hop songs make use > of drum beats (or even entire instrumental sections) from other albums, > yet to the best of my knowledge, not a single person has been forced to > pay for that use Many artists have sued (and won) over samples used by other artists. http://www.google.com/search?q=hip-hop%20sample%20sued Jim, I realize that you are trying to be helpful, but your comments on copyright law are woefully misinformed. No, IANAL either. I encourage anyone interested in the topic to make use of the Stanford site which is an excellent resource on the topic. http://fairuse.stanford.edu/ Peace Philip ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (Sundew) Date: Mon Jan 5 15:20:03 2004 Subject: [CP] re: Photo theft Hi Jim, Thanks for your input regarding photo theft. I understand the situation regarding copyright infringement in music but I think you are wrong - I believe plenty of rappers and other musicians have been sued for sampling other people's music sound recordings and the owners of the copyrights have won. In other cases, the record label the rapper is on owns the sound recordings and therefore grants free access to their back catalog. In these cases, the people responsible for originally putting those sounds on record probably get paid royalties _if_ their contract with the record label provided for royalties... but you know how that goes. I believe there have been other cases where artists have sued and gotten 100% of sales from records which sampled the original. Situations I remember (but don't remember the outcome of): Vanilla Ice's sampling of Queen, the Verve's sampling of - was it the Stones? The Bucketheads sampling of Chicago (which was settled out of court). The Beloved sampling of some opera recording on "the Sun Rising", which I heard they paid the price for. I'm sure there are plenty of others and I could probably remember a few more without straining my brain. You're right about the costs associated with suing. Few people have the financial backing for such a lawsuit and few people can justify it when the stakes are low. In this particular situation, I will contact the person who used the photos and settle things with him. From Rick's email, it seems like he will do the right thing. If not, I can call attention to what I would now consider dishonest activities (since he now knows it's wrong to use pics without permission). I think that would be enough in this case. I think all of you whose photos he used should consider doing the same. I still wonder if he is offering true D.kaieteurensis though.... Matt -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-= ################### From: jim_miller at mindspring.com (Jim Miller) Date: Mon Jan 5 15:42:32 2004 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 8, Issue 7 >From: Philip Semanchuk >Subject: Re: [CP] Photo theft >Jim Miller wrote: > > Sadly, there is a >> perception that publication on the Web (a free medium) constitutes free >> use (or as the law calls it, "fair use"). > >I hope you are being facetious! Fair use entitles people to use someone >else's work *only* "for purposes of commentary and criticism". Absolutely! Which, if you look again, is why I used the word "perception" in that sentence, not to mention, "sadly." >Jim, I realize that you are trying to be helpful, but your comments on >copyright law are woefully misinformed. I never claimed to be a copyright attorney. However, "woefully informed" as I am, I can tell you that in my personal experience, every legal attempt to punish those who violate the existing copyright laws have resulted in no more than a "cease and desist" order, regardless of the severity of the violation. I have personally been involved in two such incidents (thankfully the attorney's fees were paid by companies that licensed my sounds). Despite favorable rulings by the courts, there was never any penalty or fine attached to these violations. And that is my point. You can have all the laws you wish, but punishing those who break them is often darn near impossible. Best regards, Jim ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry A. Rice) Date: Mon Jan 5 15:55:44 2004 Subject: [CP] Ivan's Carnivorous Palm Hey Ivan, et al., I recall getting email and then phone messages from a woman who was trying to do research for her grade school daughter's report. The woman was trying to get information about a "carnivorous forest". Although I told her there was no such thing, and that I knew enough about carnivorous plants that if there was some place in the world called the "carnivorous forest" I would have heard about it, she was insistent there was such a place, and she needed information about it. She said her daughter told her about it. Finally I figured it out.... Barry: Ma'am, is it possible your daughter said she was doing research on "coniferous forests"? End of conversation. Later! Barry ------------------------ Barry A. Rice, Ph.D. Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: la_islita_de_encanta at yahoo.com (Christina Anderson) Date: Mon Jan 5 16:29:00 2004 Subject: [CP] Greetings and "Natural" Fungicide Greetings, everybody! I'm now officially a "Master Gardener Intern" and I've loved plants all my life . . . though recently I've gotten into carnivorous plants (not literally . . . har har). I have a ten gallon terrarium (a 4' shop light above it with a cool bulb and a wide-spectrum bulb) with two happy Lowes flytraps (they've colored up and begun to put out a few new leaves since I've brought them home, a good thing, I think), two discount cobra lilies (browning on top . . . roots not cool enough???), and a pitcher plant that seems like it might be waking up from a little dormancy "nap." Yeah, and I joined the ICPS and will soon start seeds, mostly droseras (though I have started to get, like, feverishly excited about nepenthes . . . so now all my freetime and spending money will undoubtedly get eaten alive . . . .) But my main question is about the possibility of using "natural" fungicides on CP seedlings. I know that chamomile tea is often used to prevent "damping off" in other seedlings, and I've also heard that cinnamon has been used to prevent the growth of fungus. These seem much nicer/cheaper/safer than Captan or whatever, but I don't want to burn up any babies from the ICPS seedbank. What do you think? Are these safe? (Couldn't find anything in the archives or online, but maybe I'm just not a clever enough monkey???) Thanks!!! Christina ################### From: myrmecophile at armyants.org (Gordon C. Snelling) Date: Mon Jan 5 16:41:59 2004 Subject: [CP] Photo theft Philip is totally correct, the minute the photo is created it is copyright protected. You do not need to formally do squat. It is yours and can not be used without permission. While it may end up being more trouble that it is worth financially you are legally protected, so even without formal filing of copyright, the improper use of your photos is theft plain and simple. That said, for me it is not the use of the photos I object to it is the total lack of the simple courtesy of obtaining permission. -- Gordon New World Army Ants http://www.armyants.org Notes From Underground http://www.notesfromunderground.org ################### From: alexnetherton at charter.net (Alex Netherton) Date: Mon Jan 5 16:53:50 2004 Subject: [CP] Copyright and use Hi folks; I have been reading with interest the thread on copyrights. I have used many photos on my web site, which is mostly an educational site (I have been a teacher for years). Many of the photos are mine, but a lot of them, especially the CP's of NC page, are from other sites. I have gone to great lengths to obtain permission for the use of all photos, and ask the same respect from others (why anyone would want to use mine, I haven't a clue). Most folks will give permission, though I have had a hard time getting permission to use a photo of a Ringneck Snake for my snake pages - hope I find one this year when I have my camera... No one will reply to my e-mails, so I don't have a photo; simple as that. If anyone who looks at my site finds a picture without permission, I will remove it ASAP. Note; I asked the authors of the sites for permission, just hope the permission was theirs to give... Alex Netherton http://alexnetherton.com ################### From: srcurrie at currieweb.com (Steven R. Currie) Date: Mon Jan 5 18:39:46 2004 Subject: [CP] Greetings and "Natural" Fungicide I use Benomyl myself with success. At least fungus doesn't kill my plants. IMHO "Natural" fungicide just involves not putting your plants in a situation that promotes fungus! I just bought a whole house to fill with plants myself! My real goal is to mainly grow plants at home which can live outside in Upstate New York. We also have a bunch of VFTs recently growing from seed in our office at the local high school. These will be used to show students the REAL thing. Right now they only see they only see the plants on a video. Steve On Mon, 2004-01-05 at 19:28, Christina Anderson wrote: > Greetings, everybody! > > > I'm now officially a "Master Gardener Intern" and I've loved plants > all my life . . . though recently I've gotten into carnivorous plants > (not literally . . . har har). I have a ten gallon terrarium (a 4' > shop light above it with a cool bulb and a wide-spectrum bulb) with > two happy Lowes flytraps (they've colored up and begun to put out a > few new leaves since I've brought them home, a good thing, I think), > two discount cobra lilies (browning on top . . . roots not cool > enough???), and a pitcher plant that seems like it might be waking up > from a little dormancy "nap." Yeah, and I joined the ICPS and will > soon start seeds, mostly droseras (though I have started to get, like, > feverishly excited about nepenthes . . . so now all my freetime and > spending money will undoubtedly get eaten alive . . . .) > > > But my main question is about the possibility of using "natural" > fungicides on CP seedlings. I know that chamomile tea is often used > to prevent "damping off" in other seedlings, and I've also heard that > cinnamon has been used to prevent the growth of fungus. These seem > much nicer/cheaper/safer than Captan or whatever, but I don't want to > burn up any babies from the ICPS seedbank. What do you think? Are > these safe? (Couldn't find anything in the archives or online, but > maybe I'm just not a clever enough monkey???) > > > Thanks!!! > > > Christina > > > > > > --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Find out what made > the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 > _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list > Cp@omnisterra.com > http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > ################### From: kdubash at vsnl.com (KDubash) Date: Mon Jan 5 19:23:55 2004 Subject: [CP] Greetings and "Natural" Fungicide >But my main question is about the possibility of using "natural" fungicides on CP seedlings. I know that chamomile tea is often used to prevent "damping off" in >other seedlings, and I've also heard that cinnamon has been used to prevent the growth of fungus. >Christina I know very little about cp's, as I have just started out on this area. But one "natural" fungicide is supposed to be garlic tea. I use it regularly for my orchids, and other plants. K Dubash ################### From: ullsperg at hotmail.com (Chris Ullsperger) Date: Mon Jan 5 19:55:28 2004 Subject: [CP] Re: carn photos and D. cistiflora "Gifberg Pass" J.M. wrote: "Despite favorable rulings by the courts, there was never any penalty or fine attached to these violations." In addition to what others have written re plaintiff-favorable results, I'll add that it doesn't hurt one's position in an IP case to hire a dedicated IP attorney (instead of relying on on your divorce lawyer). A decent IP attorney will certainly recover damages for you (e.g., profits lost as a result of the theft of your intellectual property) if in fact such damages exist (and assuming that you succeed in proving copyright infringement). But take note: an experienced IP attorney here in California, where much of our country's major copyright cases were written, will cost you substantially more than the previously cited "fifty dollars an hour." $250 to $500 an hour is a better guess. Obligatory plant content: I'm growing some D. cistiflora outdoors this year in the East Bay Area where it doesn't freeze often (thus far this year I've not seen frost) but it does get mighty close. I notice that the first plant to come out of dormancy -- and it just popped out last week -- was this "Gifberg Pass" clone I got from Best Carnivorous Plants some time back. Does anyone have any idea how cold it gets where this plant grows? Has anyone had one survive a freeze? cu _________________________________________________________________ Tired of slow downloads? Compare online deals from your local high-speed providers now. https://broadband.msn.com ################### From: philip at semanchuk.com (Philip Semanchuk) Date: Mon Jan 5 20:20:12 2004 Subject: [CP] Photo theft Jim Miller wrote: >> From: Philip Semanchuk >> Subject: Re: [CP] Photo theft >> Jim Miller wrote: > I never claimed to be a copyright attorney. However, "woefully > informed" as I am, I can tell you that in my personal experience, > every legal attempt to punish those who violate the existing > copyright laws have resulted in no more than a "cease and desist" > order, regardless of the severity of the violation. I have personally > been involved in two such incidents (thankfully the attorney's fees > were paid by companies that licensed my sounds). Despite favorable > rulings by the courts, there was never any penalty or fine attached > to these violations. And that is my point. You can have all the laws > you wish, but punishing those who break them is often darn near > impossible. On that we agree. After re-reading my comments, I stand by what I said but I realize that I said it with more attitude than was necessary. Thanks for not responding in kind. Cheers Philip ################### From: jim_miller at mindspring.com (Jim Miller) Date: Mon Jan 5 20:40:16 2004 Subject: [CP] Photo theft (hopefully the last chapter) >From: "Sundew" >Subject: [CP] re: Photo theft > >Thanks for your input regarding photo theft. I understand the situation >regarding copyright infringement in music but I think you are wrong - I >believe plenty of rappers and other musicians have been sued for sampling >other people's music sound recordings and the owners of the copyrights have >won. Hi Matt, Winning is nothing more than the courts saying you are right. While I am sure you (and Phil) are absolutely right about judgements made against illegal use of other peoples' music, it's a big leap from having a ruling in your favor and actually collecting anything. Art Buchwald sued Eddie Murphy and his production company over the movie, "Coming to America" and he won in a well-publicized court battle. The media loved it, of course. Yet to date, not a penny has changed hands, which is a shame. And for every publicized incident, there are likely a dozen others that you never hear about. If it were not so inappropriate to go into the details here, I could tell you of plenty of instances where people in the music industry have gotten away with copyright infringement. But that is way off topic. >You're right about the costs associated with suing. Few people have the >financial backing for such a lawsuit and few people can justify it when the >stakes are low. In this particular situation, I will contact the person who >used the photos and settle things with him. That is the sensible way to approach it. Hats off to you! It's just not worth the time and effort to pursue legal action, particularly if this individual has publicly said he made a mistake. It's usually pretty easy to find the owner of photos and art posted on web sites. So there is really no excuse for people saying, "I didn't know." This debate has raged for a long time in other discussion groups and listservs, so I'm surprised it took so long to arrive here. But maybe that just means that the problem is not nearly as out-of-control in the CP world. If that's the case, it's really good news. Best regards, Jim ################### From: stephenwd at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Davis) Date: Mon Jan 5 21:10:44 2004 Subject: [CP] D. cistiflora "Gifberg Pass" Hey Chris, I've been growing cistiflora here in the south bay for years. Mine did fairly well outside, and even survived some pretty cold weather. However, a really bad cold snap did kill the buds on one plant. It started to grow some plantlets at it's base that spring but never came back from dormancy that year. I have a lot of detail on my web site about it's history inside and outside on my web site in the propogation section. www.carnivorousplants.homestead.com Stephen Davis Chris Ullsperger wrote: J.M. wrote: "Despite favorable rulings by the courts, there was never any penalty or fine attached to these violations." In addition to what others have written re plaintiff-favorable results, I'll add that it doesn't hurt one's position in an IP case to hire a dedicated IP attorney (instead of relying on on your divorce lawyer). A decent IP attorney will certainly recover damages for you (e.g., profits lost as a result of the theft of your intellectual property) if in fact such damages exist (and assuming that you succeed in proving copyright infringement). But take note: an experienced IP attorney here in California, where much of our country's major copyright cases were written, will cost you substantially more than the previously cited "fifty dollars an hour." $250 to $500 an hour is a better guess. Obligatory plant content: I'm growing some D. cistiflora outdoors this year in the East Bay Area where it doesn't freeze often (thus far this year I've not seen frost) but it does get mighty close. I notice that the first plant to come out of dormancy -- and it just popped out last week -- was this "Gifberg Pass" clone I got from Best Carnivorous Plants some time back. Does anyone have any idea how cold it gets where this plant grows? Has anyone had one survive a freeze? cu _________________________________________________________________ Tired of slow downloads? Compare online deals from your local high-speed providers now. https://broadband.msn.com ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Mon Jan 5 22:23:21 2004 Subject: [CP] Re: Ebay Photo's as to the issue of crediting photos, if he's using the CP Photo Finder, many times, the links don't display the home page (although, a quick adjustment to the URL will call it up), for example: http://botany.cs.tamu.edu/FLORA/dcs420/fa02/fa02056.jpg who's to be credited for this photo? one could cite the URL, i suppose. Gary Kong TamlinD Dawnstar wrote: >Hi all, > >OK, with Tim's apology satisfaction has been acheived >on my end. ?It isn't the use that I object to but the >indifference, esp. by big business. ?After all it is a >bit of a compliment when someone lifts your photo's >for their use I guess. ?I just wish those using them >would make some effort to contact the owners of the >photo's PRIOR to their web publishing. ?I have had >photo's I posted to determine ID by consensus >re-posted under erroneous names, and this is not >right. ?It just adds to the confusion in ID already >running wild. > >Yours, > >William Dawnstar > > >P.S. ?Jay, if you are reading this, please note that >my former name William DiLapi was legally changed when >I re-married in 2002 to Dawnstar. ?All friends should >update their files accordingly ;-) > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 >http://search.yahoo.com/top2003 > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ New! Unlimited Access from the Netscape Internet Service. Beta test the new Netscape Internet Service for only $1.00 per month until 3/1/04. Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Act now to get a personalized email address! Netscape. Just the Net You Need. ################### From: AppleCakeTeaRoom at aol.com (AppleCakeTeaRoom@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 5 23:13:03 2004 Subject: [CP] Re: CP Photos used without permission How about contacting and reporting the theft of your pictures to the Internet Fraud Complaint Center (IFCC), co-sponsored by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and the National White Collar Crime Center (NW3C). Internet Fraud Complaint Center (http://www1.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp) I don't know if they cover anything like this, but it could be worth a shot. Or perhaps another government agency might be of help to you. Just a thought. ################### From: gwcollins at algol.co.uk (Gary Collins) Date: Tue Jan 6 01:37:08 2004 Subject: [CP] Re: Cp Digest, Vol 8, Issue 8 On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 18:39:54 -0800, Cp-request@omnisterra.com wrote: >From: "Barry A. Rice" >Subject: [CP] Ivan's Carnivorous Palm >To: cp list >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > >Hey Ivan, et al., > >I recall getting email and then phone messages from a woman who was trying >to do research for her grade school daughter's report. The woman was >trying to get information about a "carnivorous forest". Although I told >her there was no such thing, and that I knew enough about carnivorous >plants that if there was some place in the world called the "carnivorous >forest" I would have heard about it, she was insistent there was such a >place, and she needed information about it. > >She said her daughter told her about it. > >Finally I figured it out.... > >Barry: Ma'am, is it possible your daughter said she was doing research on >"coniferous forests"? > >End of conversation. > A teacher once posted to the internet a similar story. (S)he was marking exam papers, and a pupil had written that large parts of Russia are covered with 'carnivorous forest'. The teacher added that perhaps the pupil had been thinking of the Siberian Taiga.... /Gary ################### From: bill at lifehouseproductions.com (Bill Matthews) Date: Tue Jan 6 02:33:18 2004 Subject: [CP] More on Copyright Hello everyone - As a professional illustrator, copyright is something I deal with all the time. An important issue is the subject of registering your work/photos with the US Copyright office, especially for an important or unique piece. Registration is not necessary to have protection, however, is extremely important because if the work is registered before an infingement, you can collect attorney's fees and statuatory/punitive damages. An (fictitious) example: Reader's Digest or National Geographic has used an image without your permission and put it onto websites, books, and CD's. 1. Without registration of the copyright you might get from a judge/jury $250.00 or the standard rate for an image of that kind and usage. 2. With registration, you would collect attorney's fees, the $250.00, plus the chance of a huge punitive damage award of $50,000.00 - $100,000.00 because the judge wants to teach the infringer (who may have done this knowingly many times) a lesson. Definitely worth filing the registration. To download forms and for more information, go to www.copyright.gov Bill Matthews New England Carnivorous Plant Society LifeHouse Productions | http://www.lifehouseproductions.com Phone/Fax: 203.265.1007 ################### From: Writerguy67 at aol.com (Writerguy67@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 6 05:35:24 2004 Subject: [CP] Benomyl (was re: natural fungicide) Steve Currie writes: "I use Benomyl myself with success." Do you have a current source for Benomyl in the states? It disappeared from my local gardening centers years ago (and I recall reading something about it being banned by the EPA in anything other than professional quantities). Captan was always a poor (non-systemic) substitute, IMHO. Sorry, Christina, to morph your question on natural fungicides into a request for poison sources :-). I've made several presentations to master gardener groups in Northern Virginia, and this subject invariably comes up ... I'm a big fan of integrated pest management, and I'd rather fight with lady bugs than with SEVIN on most of my perennials, but when it comes to MY BABIES ..... blast 'em :-). Jay Lechtman Northern Virginia, USA ################### From: sundew at hotmail.com (sundew@hotmail.com) Date: Tue Jan 6 06:20:58 2004 Subject: [CP] Re: Ebay Photo's Gary brings up a good point. Bob, if you're reading this, please email me. Matt Wrom: SKVFVWRKJVZCMHVIBGDADRZFSQHYUCDDJB To: Cp@omnisterra.com (Carnivorous Plant Discussion group) as to the issue of crediting photos, if he's using the CP Photo Finder, many times, the links don't display the home page (although, a quick adjustment to the URL will call it up), for example: http://botany.cs.tamu.edu/FLORA/dcs420/fa02/fa02056.jpg who's to be credited for this photo? one could cite the URL, i suppose. Gary Kong -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-= SundewMatt: Carnivorous Plant Grower Since 1984 DEDICATED TO THE CULTIVATION AND PRESERVATION OF DROSERA I am always looking for new contacts living in or travelling to Africa, South America or other tropical / subtropical places. Please visit my website at http://www.sundewgrower.com/index.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=-= ################### From: utricularia4242 at hotmail.com (Travis Wyman) Date: Tue Jan 6 06:39:03 2004 Subject: [CP] RE: D. cistiflora "Gifberg Pass" Hey Chris, Not sure how cold the natural habitat can get but the clones I am growing have survived 3 nights dropping to 27F here in Atlanta when my space heater broke. Travis >From: "Chris Ullsperger" > >Obligatory plant content: I'm growing some D. cistiflora outdoors this >year in the East Bay Area where it doesn't freeze often (thus far this year >I've not seen frost) but it does get mighty close. I notice that the first >plant to come out of dormancy -- and it just popped out last week -- was >this "Gifberg Pass" clone I got from Best Carnivorous Plants some time >back. Does anyone have any idea how cold it gets where this plant grows? >Has anyone had one survive a freeze? > >cu _________________________________________________________________ Worried about inbox overload? Get MSN Extra Storage now! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ################### From: stephenwd at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Davis) Date: Tue Jan 6 07:49:14 2004 Subject: [CP] RE: D. cistiflora "Gifberg Pass" Chris, By the way, if you still have not suffered a frost, given the weather in the last few days, you must be in Berkeley, or somewhere right on the coast. I can't believe that anything but one of our 10 year freezes would be of any worry to you. It's much warmer than down here in south San Jose. We are on the very edge of the "Bay effect." It can get pretty chilly here. Stephen Travis Wyman wrote: Hey Chris, Not sure how cold the natural habitat can get but the clones I am growing have survived 3 nights dropping to 27F here in Atlanta when my space heater broke. Travis >From: "Chris Ullsperger" > >Obligatory plant content: I'm growing some D. cistiflora outdoors this >year in the East Bay Area where it doesn't freeze often (thus far this year >I've not seen frost) but it does get mighty close. I notice that the first >plant to come out of dormancy -- and it just popped out last week -- was >this "Gifberg Pass" clone I got from Best Carnivorous Plants some time >back. Does anyone have any idea how cold it gets where this plant grows? >Has anyone had one survive a freeze? > >cu _________________________________________________________________ Worried about inbox overload? Get MSN Extra Storage now! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ################### From: jmbamboo at att.net (jim mortensen) Date: Tue Jan 6 08:52:02 2004 Subject: [CP] Photo's on the web Thanks for a voice of sanity Paul. I have a web site (not carnivorous plants) and my copyright policy is take the photo's and use them but I would like credit. However, it's not that big a deal. Jim -----Original Message----- Behalf Of Paul Edwards Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 2:44 PM To: CP List C'mon, guys. Is this getting a little out of hand? Are we getting a little paranoid and/or selfish? I mean, does it really matter if someone uses your photos? Are you suffering a loss (of money or credibility) because of it? Or is it a little sulk because you're not seeing your name credited. If it doesn't harm you, and is not harmful for the CP community in general, it doesn't really matter, does it? I think anything that spreads/promotes CPs (esp. to the general public) is good. I would be honoured to have one of my pics on eBay, whether I was credited with it or not. After all, I know it's mine. Paul E. Vic, Australia. _______________________________________________ Cp mailing list Cp@omnisterra.com http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com ################### From: maicinek at yahoo.com (Martin) Date: Tue Jan 6 09:46:51 2004 Subject: [CP] Mexico - Non CP question Hi All, Sorry to bring a non-CP question on this Forum. So despite my interest in CP I am also very keen on Cypripedium orchids. There are three species growing in wild in Mexico but they are difficult to find available for exchange/sale. I am wonder if any of memebers ever seen this species and maybe collected seeds or even grows these species in yours collection? Thanks in advance and pls. e-amil me privately not to send more non-topic mails to the Forum. With best wishes, Martin __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ################### From: bioexp at juno.com (Ivan Snyder) Date: Tue Jan 6 10:18:12 2004 Subject: [CP] Re: Carnivorous Palm >I'm not sure, Ivan. Carnivory, like any other feature of a species, surely came about by evolution, no? But evolution works by random mutation and selection, i.e., by "accident", not by "design". Best wishes, Marcus Thanks for your reply Marcus. I was not implying 'intelligent design'. Although, that might prove an amusing topic for discussion here:-) Actually, I meant that a cat trapped in a poplar tree is surely an accident; not a design characteristic inherent to the tree. I seriously think this phenomena in palms should be more carefully studied. Anyhow, the story of my palm tree has come to a close. The night of Christmas was a bad wind storm. Eight dead pigeons dropped from the tree in that one night. Including a severed head, body unfound. An accident? This was a regular event and was the final straw. I had that nasty killer tree removed last week. In hindsight, I should have called on Jim Miller to see about making a DVD documentary. Ivan ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ################### From: aidanselwyn at jktree.fsworld.co.uk (Aidan Selwyn) Date: Tue Jan 6 10:19:38 2004 Subject: [CP] Image Theft Dear All, Not specific to carnivorous plants, but the content of this site demonstrates just how much damage theft of images can do. http://www.antique-clocks.net Regards, ################### From: jennifer.simek at ttu.edu (Simek, Jennifer) Date: Tue Jan 6 10:21:30 2004 Subject: [CP] Copyright question "http://botany.cs.tamu.edu/FLORA/dcs420/fa02/fa02056.jpg who's to be credited for this photo? one could cite the URL, i suppose. Gary Kong" The words "COPYRIGHT J R MANHART" are in the lower righthand side of this photo...so doesn't that answer the question of whom to credit? Or if you want more info, you could go to the "base" of the URL: http://botany.cs.tamu.edu/FLORA, and surf a few pages until you find the Vascular Plant Image Gallery where the image originates: http://botany.cs.tamu.edu/FLORA/gallery.htm. The family links in this gallery give the photo credits, location info, etc. for each photo. Incidentally, if you click on the "contributors" link at the bottom of the gallery's main page, you'll see this statement regarding usage of the photos in this gallery: "Digital images are open and available from the gallery for any educational, non-profit use. Please contact image gallery contributors with questions regarding their photos or commerical use of copyrighted images made available through this system. " So...with a little effort it's usually easy to find the info you need. And if you still can't find any copyright info after a little surfing, do what they told us to in graduate school: use the URL to cite Internet sources. Jennifer Simek Texas Tech University Department of Biological Sciences Greenhouse Manager ################### From: jim_miller at mindspring.com (Jim Miller) Date: Tue Jan 6 12:19:37 2004 Subject: [CP] CP DVD Clips Hello to all fellow CP maniacs (and any normal people who drop by), Somehow, the URL for the CP DVD clips seems to have slipped through the cracks, as I am getting about one message a day asking where they can be found. Possibly many missed it back when things were quiet here. To view, go here: http://www.carnivorousplants.org/latestnews/cpdvd/clips.html Note that you will need QuickTime to view them, but it's available for free from Apple at: http://www.apple.com/quicktime/products/qt/ (this explains QuickTime) or go here: http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/ Choose the Mac or Windows (XP or 2000) version that matches your system. Note that QuickTime is probably the finest piece of freeware ever written. With it, you can open and view almost any video or audio file, including MPEG-4 and AAC (which is an audio format that produces files of about the same size as MP3s, but with much better fidelity), .MOV, AVI, DV, AIFF, .WAV, BMP, GIF, JPEG and many, many others. How cool is that? You can also download it along with iTunes, which gives you access to the Apple Music Store (you have to sign up, but the material available is amazing -- over 500,000 tracks!! I found music from the 1960s that's no longer available on CD). For those who have returned to the ICPS Web site and were not able to see the clips, make sure you use the "Refresh" or "Reload" commands (In Netscape, it's found under the VIEW menu). ################### From: bamrice at ucdavis.edu (Barry A. Rice) Date: Tue Jan 6 12:28:31 2004 Subject: [CP] Yet more on image usage Hey Folks, If you cannot contact the photographer or his/her agent, for whatever reason, you should not use the image. If you want to use an image, it is your responsibility to obtain the necessary permission. Cheers Barry >as to the issue of crediting photos, if he's using the CP Photo Finder, >many times, the links don't display the home page (although, a quick >adjustment to the URL will call it up), for example: >http://botany.cs.tamu.edu/FLORA/dcs420/fa02/fa02056.jpg >who's to be credited for this photo? one could cite the URL, i suppose. >Gary Kong ################### From: Killerplants at aol.com (Killerplants@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 6 13:22:07 2004 Subject: [CP] Benomyl (was re: natural fungicide) Ditto. I loved my Benomyl and would love to know where to get some. Regards, Joe Griffin Lincoln, NE USA ################### From: insecttrap at hotmail.com (Michael Manna) Date: Tue Jan 6 14:07:26 2004 Subject: [CP] Re: Carnivorous Palm Ivan, Why oh why did you have that beautiful Washingtonia removed? It has been doing humans a service for free which we spend millions maybe billions of dollars annually on (Barry can you refine my guess), the removal of exotic invasive organisms! Besides that it provides shelter for bats, snakes and mother-in-laws. You should have been looking up a recipe for Pigeon soup. That way we could get some diversity in our discussion "Wars". Sincerely, Michael Manna WPB, FL >From: Ivan Snyder >Reply-To: Carnivorous Plant Discussion group >To: Cp@omnisterra.com >Subject: [CP] Re: Carnivorous Palm >Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 10:02:56 -0800 > > >I'm not sure, Ivan. Carnivory, like any other feature of a species, >surely >came about by evolution, no? >But evolution works by random mutation and selection, i.e., by >"accident", >not by "design". >Best wishes, >Marcus > >Thanks for your reply Marcus. I was not implying 'intelligent design'. >Although, that might prove an amusing topic for discussion here:-) >Actually, I meant that a cat trapped in a poplar tree is surely an >accident; not a design characteristic inherent to the tree. I seriously >think this phenomena in palms should be more carefully studied. Anyhow, >the story of my palm tree has come to a close. The night of Christmas was >a bad wind storm. Eight dead pigeons dropped from the tree in that one >night. Including a severed head, body unfound. An accident? This was a >regular event and was the final straw. I had that nasty killer tree >removed last week. In hindsight, I should have called on Jim Miller to >see about making a DVD documentary. >Ivan > >________________________________________________________________ >The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! >Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! >Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com _________________________________________________________________ Expand your wine savvy — and get some great new recipes — at MSN Wine. http://wine.msn.com ################### From: cwasson at cisco.com (Craig Wasson (cwasson)) Date: Tue Jan 6 14:12:35 2004 Subject: [CP] Early bloomer OK... been away for the holidays and sort of neglecting one indoor aquarium full of CP. Guilty. So today I decided I better take the temperates in it out to the garage so they can be chill with the rest of the indoor temperates I moved to the garage in December. I just noticed that the S. Rubra I got from Lowes in March of '03 has sent up a flower! Right now it's about a foot tall and about marble sized. Bent over at the top in position to bloom. I had been reducing the photoperiod approximately to the length of the local days here in Northern Virginia - so everything has been sort of going dormant... but the bloom surprised me. I'd post a picture of it but it'd just show up on EBAY... #:^) So... do I skip dormancy for this guy? Or chill it in the garage and hope I can delay it's opening? Thanks! Craig ################### From: srcurrie at currieweb.com (Steven R. Currie) Date: Tue Jan 6 14:18:36 2004 Subject: [CP] Benomyl (was re: natural fungicide) I have a small white plastic contaner of it which was purchased froma mail order CP dealer probably in 1998 I believe. I do not have it in front of me but tommorrow when I am at the VFT location I will email the brand. I did not realize that it would cause such a stir. I have only ever done CPs on a small scale and so never used up the little bottle that I have. Is it really unavailable now? It seems to work well. Steve Killerplants@aol.com wrote: > Ditto. I loved my Benomyl and would love to know where to get some. > > > Regards, > > > Joe Griffin Lincoln, NE USA > > >In a message dated 1/6/2004 7:35:47 AM Central Standard Time, >Writerguy67@aol.com writes: Do you have a current source for Benomyl in >the states? It disappeared from my local gardening centers years ago >(and I recall reading something about it being banned by the EPA in >anything other than professional quantities). Captan was always a poor >(non-systemic) substitute, IMHO. >_______________________________________________ Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > > > > > > > ################### From: chuckr at usa.net (Chuck Rossi) Date: Tue Jan 6 14:59:33 2004 Subject: [CP] Benomyl (was re: natural fungicide) Benlate (the product) was phased out in by DuPont in late 2001 because of overwhelming legal costs. Although studies found that benomyl (the chemical) was not toxic, there was a big lawsuit in Florida where farmers claimed Benlate damaged ornamental crops. There are also questions about how benomyl effects pregnant women. So Captan and Benlate are generally no longer available. What should we use instead? One web site mentions "Azoxystrobin" as a replacement. Haven't looked that one up yet. http://ace.ace.orst.edu/info/extoxnet/pips/benomyl.htm http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/actives/benomyl.htm http://www.injuryboard.com/view.cfm/Topic=1175 chuckr On Tue, Jan 06, 2004 at 05:10:39PM -0500, Steven R. Currie wrote: > I have a small white plastic contaner of it which was purchased froma > mail order CP dealer probably in 1998 I believe. I do not have it in > front of me but tommorrow when I am at the VFT location I will email the > brand. > I did not realize that it would cause such a stir. I have only ever > done CPs on a small scale and so never used up the little bottle that I > have. Is it really unavailable now? It seems to work well. > > Steve > > Killerplants@aol.com wrote: > > > Ditto. I loved my Benomyl and would love to know where to get some. > > > > Regards, > > > > Joe Griffin > > Lincoln, NE USA ################### From: bill.weaver at hp.com (WEAVER,BILL (HP-USA,ex1)) Date: Tue Jan 6 16:22:55 2004 Subject: [CP] Benomyl I believe that Benomyl (aka Benlate) is no longer manufactured. DuPont asked that all the registrations be cancelled back in 2001. see: http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/fung-nemat/aceticacid-etridiazole/benom yl/ If you have some friends in agriculture maybe you can find one with some left on a shelf somewhere, but I don't think you will be buying some anytime soon. Bill ################### From: jim_miller at mindspring.com (Jim Miller) Date: Tue Jan 6 16:29:37 2004 Subject: [CP] Early bloomer Hi Craig, This has been an odd year. When shooting the video for my CP DVD in September, I saw a whole bunch of fresh flowers on some Sarracenia leucophylla, both in Southern Alabama and here in the Florida Big Bend area. It's not all that unusual to find plants sending up flowers in January in my greenhouse (back when I had one--and I hope to have one again soon). It's kind of up to you as far as what you want to do. You can let the plant do its thing and flower, or you can force it into dormancy by placing it outside for lower temps and shorter days. I'd personally just let it flower. I have never seen any damage as a result of a plant not having a "proper" dormancy. If you go the dormancy route, I'd cut off the flower and gradually expose the plant to colder temps, otherwise a severe shock may be too much for it. Like people, sometimes plants do some odd things. Best regards, Jim ################### From: mtalt at hort.net (Marge Talt) Date: Tue Jan 6 17:04:07 2004 Subject: [CP] home made fungicide recipes was:Benomyl (was re: natural Well, FWIW, here are some home made fungicide recipes. I've not tried them on cps, but I know the baking soda one works on powdery mildew on phlox and other plants: Baking Soda Fungicide: (these are US measurements) one gallon water 3 tablespoons baking soda 2 1/2 tablespoons horticultural oil (also called ultrafine oil or summer spray oil) 1/2 teaspoon liquid soap. (like Joy dishsoap) Store in a closed jar and reapply every week to 10 days, esp. after rain. University testing of this spray has been done on only a small range of plant materials, however, primarily roses. If you're trying it on a new plant it's best to test it first on a small section to make sure there's no phototoxicity. ========= Cinnamon (food grade; can be purchased in bulk at places like Sam's Club or bulk food stores) Effective for wide range of fungal problems on orchids including crown rot on phals. Mist foliage and sprinkle on or make a paste and brush on. One post I saved said they used hydrogen peroxide to mix with the cinnamon; others use water. ========= Retail strength Hydrogen Peroxide is effective for less extreme problems (superficial mold and fungus; bacterial infections on leaves, etc. ======== Milk: An article in the Oct 16th, 2001 New Scientist describes the use of milk as a fungicide to combat powdery mildew. "Milk's fungicidal powers were discovered by Wagner Bettiol of the environmental laboratory of Embrapa, the Brazilian Agricultural Research Corporation, n Jaguariuna, north of Sao Paulo. Bettiol, who was looking for cheap ways to control plant pests, observed that byproducts from milk-processing factories killed powdery mildew on courgettes. So he decided to simply spray fresh milk on the plants to see if it had the same effect. To his surprise, he found that it did. In fact, spraying heavily infected plants twice a week with a mixture of one part cow's milk to nine parts water was at least as good at stopping mildew as the chemical fungicides fenarimol and benomyl, Bettiol discovered." Subsequent tests by assorted net gardeners found at l:9, they had to make two or three applications at 1:4 one application did the job. It doesn't seem to make any difference whether one uses skim or whole milk. Marge Talt, zone 7 Maryland mtalt@hort.net Editor: Gardening in Shade ----------------------------------------------- Current Article: Spring Peepers http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/shade_gardening ------------------------------------------------ Complete Index of Articles by Category and Date http://mtalt.hort.net/article-index.html ------------------------------------------------ All Suite101.com garden topics : http://www.suite101.com/topics.cfm/635 ################### From: nickplummer at att.net (nickplummer@att.net) Date: Tue Jan 6 17:06:24 2004 Subject: [CP] re: Mexico - Non CP question > From: Martin > > Sorry to bring a non-CP question on this Forum. > So despite my interest in CP I am also very keen on > Cypripedium orchids. There are three species growing > in wild in Mexico but they are difficult to find > available for exchange/sale. As far as I know, the Mexican species are not in cultivation outside of Mexico. According to Cribb's _The Genus Cypripedium_, one Mexican grower cultivates C. irapeanum in large pots of the original soil collected with the plant. Apparently all three Mexican species are adapted to growth in ferrasols, and cultivation will fail is suitable soil is unavailable. Regards, Nick -- Nicholas Plummer ################### From: AppleCakeTeaRoom at aol.com (AppleCakeTeaRoom@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 6 18:42:53 2004 Subject: [CP] Re: D. cistiflora "Gifberg Pass" Hey Christina, I believe "Gifberg Pass" is in South Africa. Hopefully this is the "Gifberg Pass" the clone's name is referring to. I only found mention of one "Gifberg Pass" when I searched for this. There is mention of the possible environment here: http://www.southafrica.net/heritage/heritage_routes/sn_cycle.cfm Now I guess you'll have to search out international meteorological info for the location. :o) Try emailing Best Carnivorous Plants and ask them what they know about the clone's ancestry and geographical location, they have always been helpful when I have asked them questions. ################### From: CDunn316 at aol.com (CDunn316@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 6 20:05:33 2004 Subject: [CP] Re: Benomyl is gone... ################### From: bonnie at gerradroberts.com (Bonnie Rivers) Date: Tue Jan 6 20:30:00 2004 Subject: [CP] Benomyl I bought Benomyl at the local horticulture supply store in Portland, OR USA. It was a small bottle obviously for home use. So I guess it isn't completely gone? -Bonnie ################### From: srcurrie at currieweb.com (Steven R. Currie) Date: Tue Jan 6 21:09:23 2004 Subject: [CP] Best CP as a House Plant Okay everyone. Answer me this: Name me CPs that DO NOT require a dormant period and would make a good house plant or at least a good all year round terrarium plant. I am assuming that there must be something tropical that does not have need for a dormant period. Most of the CPs I am concentrating on (except the VFTs of course) can survive an Upstate New York winter outdoors and need that winter. It would be fun to have something indoors all year round. Steve ################### From: cwasson at cisco.com (Craig Wasson (cwasson)) Date: Tue Jan 6 21:39:42 2004 Subject: [CP] Best CP as a House Plant Hi! There are lots of plants that don't need winter dormancy - anything tropical like Nepenthes, Mexican pings, tropical drosera. Personally I've grown various Nepenthes, Cephalotus and Droseras such as Adelade, Capensis, spathulata in a terrarium for years with great success. I've been growing CP for 30 years but never realized how easy they are to grow until this year. This year I used a self-watering pot and set S. rubra, S. catesbaei, cephalotus, d. capensis and d. binata in it. This has been growing with no special conditions on a sunny kitchen counter for a year and all seem to be doing fine. The sarracenia may suffer eventually from the lack of a winter dormancy, but so far it's a great way to get house guests and visitors more interested in carnivorous plants. I've been told that many Nepenthes do just fine as houseplants outside of terrariums. Next year I'm going to try a few as hanging plants. Just give it a try. They may initially suffer from the change of climate, but if new growth looks good then they should do just fine outside of terrariums. If not then move them back to the terrarium. Good luck! Craig > >Okay everyone. Answer me this: > Name me CPs that DO NOT require a dormant period and would >make a good >house plant or at least a good all year round terrarium plant. >I am assuming that there must be something tropical that does not have >need for a dormant period. > Most of the CPs I am concentrating on (except the VFTs of >course) can >survive an Upstate New York winter outdoors and need that winter. It >would be fun to have something indoors all year round. > >Steve > > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_>omnisterra.com > ################### From: kit at carnivorousplants.nyc.ny.us (Kit Halsted) Date: Tue Jan 6 21:47:06 2004 Subject: [CP] Best CP as a House Plant Hi Steve: I have several Nepenthes growing in my front window. The N. x 'Judith Finn' is the least happy as a houseplant. N. alata decided to sprout a new basal rosette after being moved to the window from insufficient lighting & a couple other things got wonky with it, so I'm not sure how well it would be doing otherwise. My N. x hookeriana no longer has any pitchers, but it may be root-bound now. It's still in the 10" pot I put it in when I got it at 8", but it's 3' tall now! So, none of those are doing all that well. Not that badly, but not that well. The Neps that *are* doing well are N. x dominiana (AKA intermedia) & N. rafflesiana. I've had the raff for less than 2 years, but it's gone from just-out-of-TC size to about 2' tall with 5" pitchers. The dominiana's main rosette is also about 2' tall & it's got a 2nd rosette that's nearly as big, & the pitchers are about 4". As for year-round terrarium plants, various Drosera come to mind. Especially spatulata & intermedia "Cuba", which are self-fertile & popping up where they don't belong in my terrarium. D. capensis & some of the binata complex should also do well. I've had 'extrema' growing in my terrarium for a couple years now with no dormancy. Come to think of it, I've got 'extrema' & 'multifida' growing in the window as well, alongside P. moranensis. I've seen fits & starts in the growth of some of these plants that seem to correspond to dormancy. Hope that helps, -Kit At 12:01 AM -0500 1/7/04, Steven R. Currie wrote: >Okay everyone. Answer me this: > Name me CPs that DO NOT require a dormant period and would make a >good house plant or at least a good all year round terrarium plant. >I am assuming that there must be something tropical that does not >have need for a dormant period. > Most of the CPs I am concentrating on (except the VFTs of course) >can survive an Upstate New York winter outdoors and need that >winter. It would be fun to have something indoors all year round. > >Steve -- Kit Halsted - kit@carnivorousplants.nyc.ny.us Brooklyn, NY, USDA Zone 7a ################### From: hkobayashi4 at hotmail.com (Hideka Kobayashi) Date: Tue Jan 6 22:59:50 2004 Subject: [CP] Fungicides Cleary's, maybe? I wouldn't use it on CPs. They don't like something alkaline such as baking soda and soap. Hideka _________________________________________________________________ Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work — and yourself. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/workingmom.armx ################### From: garkoinsf at netscape.net (Gary Kong) Date: Wed Jan 7 00:45:49 2004 Subject: [CP] Best CP as a House Plant Kit and Steve-- I grow most of my plants as houseplants or outdoors. ?But I'm in a cool (not frigid) and relatively damp climate. ?Of the Nepenthes, alata, ventricosa, sanguinea and maxima have all grown well, although the maxima seems to have a period of non-pitchering during the winter. ?Also, the sanguinea needs LOTS of room to sprawl and find support for its relatively large pitchers. ?I grow a khasiana outside. Mexican pings do well year-round, as do D. regia, which experiences reduced, but continuous growth during the winter. ?D. adelae also keeps producing leaves and flowers year-round. ?It's still bloming from the same flower stalk it put up back in August! I'm growing Ivan Snyder's D. anglica (CA x HI) and rotundifolia "Evergrow" in a terrarium, but I'm sure they'd do just fine out in the open. ?They have periods of growth and semi-dormancy, which seems concurrent with light availability. U. lividia seems to be a continuous grower, as well. ?It's been blooming since the day I got it, over four months ago. All enjoy real sunlight. ?Unfortunately, it hasn't been all that sunny in San Francisco this winter. ?:( Gary Kong Kit Halsted wrote: >Hi Steve: > >I have several Nepenthes growing in my front window. The N. x 'Judith >Finn' is the least happy as a houseplant. N. alata decided to sprout >a new basal rosette after being moved to the window from insufficient >lighting & a couple other things got wonky with ?it, so I'm not sure >how well it would be doing otherwise. My N. x hookeriana no longer >has any pitchers, but it may be root-bound now. It's still in the 10" >pot I put it in when I got it at 8", but it's 3' tall now! So, none >of those are doing all that well. Not that badly, but not that well. >The Neps that *are* doing well are N. x dominiana (AKA intermedia) & >N. rafflesiana. I've had the raff for less than 2 years, but it's >gone from ?just-out-of-TC size to about 2' tall with 5" pitchers. The >dominiana's main rosette is also about 2' tall & it's got a 2nd >rosette that's nearly as big, & the pitchers are about 4". > >As for year-round terrarium plants, various Drosera come to mind. >Especially spatulata & intermedia "Cuba", which are self-fertile & >popping up where they don't belong in my terrarium. D. capensis & >some of the binata complex should also do well. I've had 'extrema' >growing in my terrarium for a couple years now with no dormancy. Come >to think of it, I've got 'extrema' & 'multifida' growing in the >window as well, alongside P. moranensis. I've seen fits & starts in >the growth of some of these plants that seem to correspond to >dormancy. > >Hope that helps, >-Kit > >At 12:01 AM -0500 1/7/04, Steven R. Currie wrote: >>Okay everyone. ?Answer me this: >> ?Name me CPs that DO NOT require a dormant period and would make a >>good house plant or at least a good all year round terrarium plant. >>I am assuming that there must be something tropical that does not >>have need for a dormant period. >> ?Most of the CPs I am concentrating on (except the VFTs of course) >>can survive an Upstate New York winter outdoors and need that >>winter. ?It would be fun to have something indoors all year round. >> >>Steve > > >-- >Kit Halsted - kit@carnivorousplants.nyc.ny.us >Brooklyn, NY, USDA Zone 7a > >_______________________________________________ >Cp mailing list >Cp@omnisterra.com >http://mail.omnisterra.com/mailman/listinfo/cp_omnisterra.com > -- San Francisco, CA World Leader Pretend: http://www.foulds2000.freeserve.co.uk/bushv5.htm __________________________________________________________________ Thank you for using Netscape. ################### From: Writerguy67 at aol.com (Writerguy67@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 7 05:29:45 2004 Subject: [CP] Fungicide alternatives (thanks!) Great information on Benomyl alternatives, everyone, thanks! I like the cinnamon idea particularly ... perhaps having my Sarracenia flava smell like pumpkin pie in the spring, instead of ... ahem ... "musty" will be an improvement . To add my own $.02 to the thread as well (instead of merely crying for help as I did in my earlier posting), I have been using Cleary 3336WP with fairly good success. Cliff Dodd (highly successful Nepenthes and Heliamphora grower)mentioned it in a presentation at the ICPS International Conference in Atlanta (apparently noted for its very low phytotoxicity even at hyper concentrations). I received a portion of a large professional container from a friend, and more recently purchased it at www.petflytrap.com in amateur grower sizes. The Cleary is far more pungent than my recollections of Benomyl, but I'm not sure if that translates into being any nastier to human applicators. Jay P.S. Marge? Where are you in Maryland? ################### From: Writerguy67 at aol.com (Writerguy67@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 7 05:34:01 2004 Subject: [CP] Re: D. cistiflora "Gifberg Pass" I received seed with this ID from Eric Green in 1997. Unfortunately, it was one clone that didn't survive (although I do still have "red" and "pink 49cm" forms from that original seed batch). Eric botanized in the Cape Province of South Africa (although I don't have any more specific geographical information). I haven't heard from Eric, electronically or otherwise, in many years, but I know that Robert Gibson of Australia visited him a few years ago. Perhaps someone who is in contact with Robert can work through him to get original collection data on the plant from Eric. Jay ################### From: utsubokazura at hotmail.com (Amaury Watanabe) Date: Wed Jan 7 07:30:42 2004 Subject: [CP] RE: Best CP as a Houseplant Hello everyone Out of experimentation, I decided to grow N x edinensis inside my living room, where the humidity never rises above 45%. I thought the cutting would croak but so far it hasn't shown any sign of distress. In fact, it is growing, slowly but surely. I'm still waiting for the first pitcher to fully develop in these conditions, and it seems like it will do just fine. The reason why I decided this hybrid may be a good contender for drier climates is the fact that A: it is a weed; and B: a tendril managed to squeeze through the panes of glass on the greenhouse at the Frederik Meijer Gradens, MI, into the arid greenhouse, where the humidity, obviously, is very low. That pitcher remained healthy for a very long time. For the moment I don't grow anything outside of a terrarium. Cheers! Amori Watanabe EGR, MI _________________________________________________________________ Check your PC for viruses with the FREE McAfee online computer scan. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ################### From: Cpbog at aol.com (Cpbog@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 7 08:31:16 2004 Subject: [CP] Does Cephalotus need dormancy? Does Cephalotus need dormancy? I have found many sources that indicate that growth declines if not given dormancy, while others claim that dormancy can be completely ignored and the plant would do fine. This brings up another question: Would Cephalotus dormancy be enough if it's just a cycling of lights in the terrarium? Or do temperatures have to drop during the winter? Thanks for the help! ################### From: JDPDX at aol.com (JDPDX@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 7 09:33:13 2004 Subject: [CP] Re: Natural Fungicides and CP Houseplants I've been reading the thread on fungicides and can recommend two from my own use. The Safer corporation makes a sulfur based fungicide that works as a good preventative. I've used it on Darlingtonia, Sarracenia, Flytraps, Cephalotus, and many seeds with good results. The other is products based on Neem (Azadachtrin?). Neem is both fungicidal and a decent insecticide. Neem seems to have better eradicative properties. Also, some were mentioning cinnamon. A commercial product exists based on cinnamon. I can't remember the name, but it can be purchased from www.rosecitywholesale.com in Portland, OR. A couple plugs for CP houseplants. Nepenthes truncata; it's very tolerant of low humidity, is somewhat shade tolerant and can produce magnificent pitchers. It is a bit slow growing, however. If you have enough sun I've also had good luck with N. alata hybrids, N. Khasiana, N. maxima hybrids, Most shorter Sarracenia do well as windowsill plants if you have very sunny windows. Same with Venus flytraps and sundews such as capensis and binata forms. Mexican Pings, particularly P. moranensis and P. gypsicola X agnata do very will when grown in east or north windows using African violet pots. I have one P. moranensis that has been in a violet pot for 3 years growing in a large north window. It requires very little care and blooms every year. Jeff Portland, OR ################### From: DougWitkowski at netscape.net (DougWitkowski@netscape.net) Date: Wed Jan 7 10:20:16 2004 Subject: [CP] CP's as houseplants I have been particularly interested in this topic as my terrarium is getting quite crowded. I have N. Khasianna, Truncata & Veitchii x Spatulata growing in the bathroom. All seem to be doing well, especially the cross. I would like to try alata and ventrata. I had a ventricosa but it wasted away and I am now trying to bring it back in the terrarium. I was suprised it did not do better as it has very thick leaves. I also had a cocinnea, that died a slow death. I am located in central Texas and it can get quite dry here. The house tends to run 40-50% but the bathroom runs up to 70% after a shower. It seems that the thicker leaved plants can adapt to dryer climate but they still need bright light, and the challange is not to burn them with both direct sun and low humidity. I'd like to hear what others experiences are with Nepenthes as house plants. Please include the location and estimated or measured air conditions. Doug W __________________________________________________________________ Thank you for using Netscape. ################### From: erccmacfitheal at yahoo.com (Nathan Miller) Date: Wed Jan 7 10:26:17 2004 Subject: [CP] Fungicide alternatives (thanks!) --- Writerguy67@aol.com wrote: >I like the cinnamon idea particularly ... perhaps having my Sarracenia flava smell like pumpkin pie in the spring, instead of ... ahem ... "musty" will be an improvement . I've used cinnamon on my roses to control black spot with good success. However, there is one caveat regarding cinnamon that should be taken into consideration. Although it's a good natural fungicide, it has also been shown to interfere with root growth. I haven't attempted to use cinnamon on seedlings myself. You might try treating the medium su