################### From: "Jason Ashley" Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 05:26:16 -0500 Subject: Fire Ant Invasion vs. Sarracenia Living in the northeastern part of the USA I was largely unfamiliar with the growing problem of exotic fire ants (Solenopsis invicta) in the southeastern part of the country. I find it sadly ironic that as the fire ants spread, the habitat for what is possibly the best natural defender, our beloved Sarracenia, is decreasing. I am curious however if fire ants are attracted to Sarracenia to the same degree native ants are. If so, would it not be worthwhile to promote Sarracenia as a natural means of controlling the fire ants? From what I have learned about fire ants it would seem that people would love to find a natural control or, at least, something of a deterrant to fire ant infestations. Would someone who lives down in Dixie let this poor yankee know if I'm on the right track with this line of thought? Many thanks, Jason Ashley Warwick, NY USA ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 12:44:52 -0500 Subject: Happy New Year Hey CPers, Just wanted to wish all my CP buddies a great 2000! If I owe you email, drop me a line - I've fallen behind on the correspondence. Y2K bug :) Matt [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "arie" Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 22:05:58 +0200 Subject: new at my site Happy New Year to all cp lovers I had added few short videos at my site you can come and enjoy them http://www.shalon.k-gat.k12.il/cp arie ========================================== come and visit at my site http://www.shalon.k-gat.k12.il/cp [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Marc Verdyck" Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 00:09:34 +0100 Subject: New E-mail adress! Hello, I want to inform you that my E-mail adress changed in : verdyckmarc@freegates.be Regards, Marc [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "David J. Collier, MD" Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2000 18:58:38 -0800 Subject: SF water, conductivity meter, Tap Water Purifier I have been trying out my new Tap Water Purifier from Aquarium Pharmaceuticals in conjunction with my new conductivity meter from Cole Parmer. Here's what I have discovered: San Francisco tap water from my kitchen sink gives a TDS reading of 80-90 ppm, so perhaps it is suitable after all for use on CPs without any further treatment. After passing through the Tap Water Purifier, the SF tap water gives a TDS reading of zero. Pretty good, I would say. I've only run a few gallons through the TWP so far, so I can't comment yet on the life of the deionizing column. Given the low TDS reading of the tap water, however, I am optimistic that I should get more than the advertised 50 gallons. David Collier dcollier@mail.med.upenn.edu ################### From: "Harden" Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2000 22:51:47 -0600 Subject: Tap Water Purifier Make sure you read that book with the Tap Water Purifier. The pH will be neutral or undeterminable due to the deionizing process, and I think it said something about conductivity also. Left the book at work though. And on a second note, why do airports install those water faucets that you press the handle and you have .2 seconds to wash your hands? Well, I guess They don't trust everyone with water conservation, nor do they understand how difficult it is to hold that button down with your foot. When exiting, the sign on the door said they installed water-saving faucets to save our enviroment. Nice idea huh? if they are concerned about our enviroment...why did they only have paper towels for drying our hands? All that water saved went to trees to make into paper towels I guess....sigh.... Joe ################### From: Wouter Noordeloos Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 17:29:00 +0100 Subject: Canned sphagnum moss products Hi everyone, First of al I wish everyone a happy new yaer and the best wishes for the new millenium. Last week I visit a web-site who sale canned and compressed sphagnum moss products; www.losvolcanes.com They used to sell it to commercial growers around the world. Can we use these moss products for our CP's, or are they full of salts and minerals or other dirty stuf? Please visit this site and tel me what you think. Greetings, Wouter Noordeloos Manager of Carnivora, the dutch carnivorous plant society ################### From: Michael Vanecek Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 13:32:18 -0600 Subject: Re: Fire Ant Invasion vs. Sarracenia Wow. That's cool. Suppose a sunken tub with spagnum, plants and a watering system were introduced to a person's yard? Not only would it be pretty, it would also be beneficial. Of course, it wouldn't erradicate the ants - not with their multiple queens. But it would generate a lot of satisfaction to see the evil ants dying in such a way... :) I live in Central Texas, but I haven't seen many fire-ant mounds here. I may just experiment with it anyway to see what results I would get. I think a variety of Sarr, and maybe the Darlingtonia too? Jason Ashley wrote: > > Living in the northeastern part of the USA I was largely unfamiliar with the > growing problem of exotic fire ants (Solenopsis invicta) in the southeastern > part of the country. I find it sadly ironic that as the fire ants spread, > the habitat for what is possibly the best natural defender, our beloved > Sarracenia, is decreasing. I am curious however if fire ants are attracted > to Sarracenia to the same degree native ants are. If so, would it not be > worthwhile to promote Sarracenia as a natural means of controlling the fire > ants? From what I have learned about fire ants it would seem that people > would love to find a natural control or, at least, something of a deterrant > to fire ant infestations. > > Would someone who lives down in Dixie let this poor yankee know if I'm on > the right track with this line of thought? > > Many thanks, > > Jason Ashley > Warwick, NY > USA -- Cheers, Mike http://dotfile.net/ mailto:info@dotfile.net <-------------------------------------------------> "My zeal to start using Linux is stronger than my fear of looking like a dummy." --Some Wise Man <-------------------------------------------------> Why does Sea World have a seafood restaurant? I'm halfway through my fishburger and I realize, Oh my God....I could be eating a slow learner. ################### From: "Kira Jones" Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 14:51:23 -0600 Subject: Fungus on Soil Greetings! I know this is probably an old thread I'm resurrecting, but I'm really not sure what to do. I woke up this morning to find a small colony of white mold growing on the soil of my Sarr, which is still in dormancy. Should I just scrape it off, and see what happens, or get some sort of fungicide? If the later, what kind is best? ~Kira Get your free customized E-mail from http://gmail.garfield.com ! ################### From: "Michael Hunt" Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 15:34:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Fire Ant Invasion vs. Sarracenia Well, Speaking from experience. Nice thought, but "That dog, don't hunt" !! There is no possible way a stand of hundreds of acres of Sarracenia would even put a small dent in the fire ant population. ~Mike ----- Original Message ----- To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2000 2:32 PM > Wow. That's cool. Suppose a sunken tub with spagnum, plants and a > watering system were introduced to a person's yard? Not only would it be > pretty, it would also be beneficial. Of course, it wouldn't erradicate > the ants - not with their multiple queens. But it would generate a lot > of satisfaction to see the evil ants dying in such a way... :) I live in > Central Texas, but I haven't seen many fire-ant mounds here. I may just > experiment with it anyway to see what results I would get. I think a > variety of Sarr, and maybe the Darlingtonia too? > > Jason Ashley wrote: > > > > Living in the northeastern part of the USA I was largely unfamiliar with the > > growing problem of exotic fire ants (Solenopsis invicta) in the southeastern > > part of the country. I find it sadly ironic that as the fire ants spread, > > the habitat for what is possibly the best natural defender, our beloved > > Sarracenia, is decreasing. I am curious however if fire ants are attracted > > to Sarracenia to the same degree native ants are. If so, would it not be > > worthwhile to promote Sarracenia as a natural means of controlling the fire > > ants? From what I have learned about fire ants it would seem that people > > would love to find a natural control or, at least, something of a deterrant > > to fire ant infestations. > > > > Would someone who lives down in Dixie let this poor yankee know if I'm on > > the right track with this line of thought? > > > > Many thanks, > > > > Jason Ashley > > Warwick, NY > > USA > > -- > Cheers, > Mike > > http://dotfile.net/ > mailto:info@dotfile.net > <-------------------------------------------------> > "My zeal to start using Linux is stronger than my > fear of looking like a dummy." --Some Wise Man > <-------------------------------------------------> > Why does Sea World have a seafood restaurant? I'm > halfway through my fishburger and I realize, Oh my > God....I could be eating a slow learner. ################### From: "Joseph Kinyon" Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 14:32:26 -0800 Subject: odds n ends Richard, You quipped, > Davion, > Forget the fertilizer, just send me the stuff your on. > Richard. Flames only need a match, lets keep it safe, besides you like the way you write! **** Jason, My first question to your ant question is: Do they overlap in habitat? Don't fireants like it dry, and Saracenia like it boggy? Just a thought to add to your thought. **** David, I work at the California Academy of Sciences. I believe there is some detailed monitoring of the water done by the aquarium engineers. Would you care for that info? Joseph Kinyon Marin Headlands ################### From: "tierney wayne" Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 21:25:13 PST Subject: Off topic question Hi everyone, Sorry for the off topic question, but I think I remember someone on the list mentioning that he/she also was an aquarium hobbiest... I just purchased my first real aqaurium (tropical freshwater) and I feel like such a novice!! Does anyone know of a good digest or listserve that I could subscribe to? Thanks in advance, Tierney ################### From: MCATALANI@aol.com Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 00:28:09 EST Subject: Fire Ants >> Living in the northeastern part of the USA I was largely unfamiliar with the growing problem of exotic fire ants (Solenopsis invicta) in the southeastern part of the country. I find it sadly ironic that as the fire ants spread, the habitat for what is possibly the best natural defender, our beloved Sarracenia, is decreasing. I am curious however if fire ants are attracted to Sarracenia to the same degree native ants are. If so, would it not be worthwhile to promote Sarracenia as a natural means of controlling the fire ants? From what I have learned about fire ants it would seem that people would love to find a natural control or, at least, something of a deterrant t o fire ant infestations. Would someone who lives down in Dixie let this poor yankee know if I'm on the right track with this line of thought? Many thanks, Jason Ashley>> Warwick, NYFire Ants have become an extreme nuisance here in the Memphis area during the past 7 years or so, although they were not near as bad this year. I can tell you that they can show up in your yard by the millions overnite. They are very hardy, and build their nests within the soil of my Sarracenia bogs. (These bogs are about 2 feet deep. There is standing water about 8"-1 foot below the surface.) Even with the soil moisture being high, they have no problems setting up their nests there. I have over watered the bogs a few time to try to rid them. They will scramble madly, removing the young to drier ground. But if the bog dries out, they will return. Overwatering continuously will rid them for a while, as they apparantly get tired of moving. The plants do capture some as food, but the sarracenias growing here fill up immediately on the wasp population. They fill the pitcher so high that the ants easily wander in and out of the pitcher. I have not checked the contents of S. minor, but this would probably be the pitcher plant of choice to fight these pests. Sundews should be good as well, but mine here are covered with the smaller flying insects such as gnats. Michael Catalani ################### From: (Howard J. Wu L.Ac) Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 4:19:26 +0000 Subject: Mr. Wu's debut message Hello. My name is Howard Wu. I live the eastern sierras and I have been raising CP's for almost three years now. My tap water is superb. (I get to piss far upstream from Los Angeles.) But my climate is very dry so I grow my plants indoors under glass. How I got interested in CP's: My principle hobby was raising killifish. I live in a remote rural community so it was hard to buy aquarium plants locally. I mostly acquired mine from hobbiest through the mail. Many years ago I had an aquatic bladderwort sent to me from the Dixieland Killifish Association. I wanted to again find this plant. Through the interet I discovered the utricularia webpage of Barry Rice-Meyer's as he was moving from Arizona. Here I learned that bladderworts weren't just aquatics. About three years ago Tom Johnson from the Los Angeles CPS offered me a dozen utricularia of various types. ( Thanks Tom.) These included many terrestials and epiphytes. I begun to grow these under the lights on top of my aquariums. Included was a weed sundew rosette and VFT. From her my collection has expanded into other CP's, but I remain foremost an utriciphile. I will admit that sundews are nice for lapping up those escaped wingless fruitflys I feed my fish. I have a few pitchers seedlings, pings and nepenthes just to round out my collection, but space limits my interest in these. Also before my CP days, in my Encyclopedia of Aquatic Plants I have read about Aldrovanda. I thus began a quest to obtain this unusual plant. I have since learned very much about water ecology while have only marginally being able to keep these plants alive in my collection. But they continues to be of great interest to me. For me they are 'my rose' as in "The Little Prince". I hope to someday fully master their cultivation. Last, I'm an acupuncturist/herbalist by profession, so I have some academic intested in the historic medical uses of CP's and their enzymology. Howard J. Wu Bishop Ca. mrwu@qnet.com ################### From: "dick c tran" Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 08:46:59 -0800 Subject: network of moss on soil surface does anyone have a problem with very fine moss that grows on top of their soil with plants grown under lights? I found out this weekend as i was fiddling with my cephs and discovered a huge growth crown underneath this layer of bind-soil trying to push its way through to the surface in one of my plants. this moss forms a matrix which binds the soil surface together which inhibits plants that produces side-shoots from getting through except towards the sides of the pot. at times, it is so meshed together, that i can insert a pair of tweezers into the top 1/4 inch of the soil and lift it off. so far, the only thing i can do is to replace the top layer of soil very carefully when i see this happen. LYCOShop is now open. On your mark, get set, SHOP!!! http://shop.lycos.com/ ################### From: "dick c tran" Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 09:00:45 -0800 Subject: cephalotus i was wondering if anyone has any problems with their cephs producing pitchers that are too close to the crown where the pitchers are developing on top of each other. Does anyone know of a way to get their cephs to develop longer petioles? besides what i mentioned below and removing older pitchers to make way for the new ones, does anyone have alternative solutions to this? i've tried blocking out the light at the crown hoping that the petiole would grown farther out before pitcher grown. So far, inconclusive. They're so damn slow....! dick LYCOShop is now open. On your mark, get set, SHOP!!! http://shop.lycos.com/ ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 11:16:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: mjin hobby is vleesetende planten willy (fwd) Hey Folks, I'm back from a trip, sorting through email. Can anyone translate this piece that I got from a grower, I believe in response to some page in the CP FAQ? Is this in some composite language? It almost reads as a phonetic English, in an odd, twisted way. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Ik heb het adres gekregen van een vriend die mij dezelfde hobby doe als ik. Ik ben opzoek naar nieuwe planten en het aan te kopen van boeken. kunt u helpen dank u WILLY. ADRES : CASSIMAN WILLY BEIGEMSESTEENWEG,310 1852 BEIGEM ( GRIMBERGEN ) BELGI\313E --------------------- Dr. Barry Meyers-Rice bazza@sarracenia.com Carnivorous Plant FAQ--author www.sarracenia.com/faq.html Carnivorous Plant Newsletter--editor www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: "Carl Strohmenger (HSC)" Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 15:33:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: mjin hobby is vleesetende planten willy (fwd) It looks like the Dutch that a friend was studying many years ago. - Carl On Mon, 3 Jan 2000, Barry Meyers-Rice wrote: > > Hey Folks, > > I'm back from a trip, sorting through email. Can anyone translate this > piece that I got from a grower, I believe in response to some page in the > CP FAQ? > > Is this in some composite language? It almost reads as a phonetic English, > in an odd, twisted way. > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 18:39:54 +0100 > From: cassiman > Subject: mjin hobby is vleesetende planten willy > > Ik heb het adres gekregen van een vriend die mij dezelfde hobby doe als > ik. > > Ik ben opzoek naar nieuwe planten en het aan te kopen van boeken. > kunt u helpen dank u WILLY. > > > ADRES : CASSIMAN WILLY > BEIGEMSESTEENWEG,310 > 1852 BEIGEM ( GRIMBERGEN ) BELGI\313E > > --------------------- > Dr. Barry Meyers-Rice > bazza@sarracenia.com > Carnivorous Plant FAQ--author > www.sarracenia.com/faq.html > Carnivorous Plant Newsletter--editor > www.carnivorousplants.org > > ################### From: "Fred C. Heller" Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 22:04:30 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: mjin hobby is vleesetende planten willy (fwd) There you go ! Happy growing Fred >I'm back from a trip, sorting through email. Can anyone translate this >piece that I got from a grower, I believe in response to some page in the >CP FAQ? >Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 18:39:54 +0100 >From: cassiman >Subject: mjin hobby is vleesetende planten willy My hobby is carnivorous plants >Ik heb het adres gekregen van een vriend die mij dezelfde hobby doe als >ik. I got the address from a friend of mine who has the same hobby I haveI > >Ik ben opzoek naar nieuwe planten en het aan te kopen van boeken. >kunt u helpen dank u WILLY. I'm looking for new plants and the buying of books. Could you help ? Thank you Willy > >ADDRESS : CASSIMAN WILLY >BEIGEMSESTEENWEG,310 >1852 BEIGEM ( GRIMBERGEN ) BELGIUM > >--------------------- >Dr. Barry Meyers-Rice > bazza@sarracenia.com >Carnivorous Plant FAQ--author > www.sarracenia.com/faq.html >Carnivorous Plant Newsletter--editor > www.carnivorousplants.org > > > ################### From: "Thierry Callaerts" Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 01:43:51 PST Subject: Utricularia dimorphanta Hello, To all a happy New Year... I have to following problem and hope someone out there can help me. My U. dimporhanta is growing very well. It has a very green colour and grows rapidely. The problem is that the 'leaves' stay very short and that it doesn't form any traps at all. Can someone help me ? I'm also looking for a drosera regia for sale. greetz, Thierry ################### From: Ed Street Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 06:52:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Fire ants Hello, I live in alabama on the al/ga border and we have some carpenter/fire ants in the yard, I can kick over there nest and they will just move it to the side somewhere. this summer I will definately put my s. minor's in the front yard and see what happens. Currently they are on the back porch, this past year they have gotten so full they literally topple over with the weight. When california carnivores stated they are glutonous pigs they was NOT kidding!! I will keep everyone posted as to what I find and how they work. Ed ################### From: "Susan Farrington" Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 07:22:53 -0600 Subject: Longwood Gardens Hi, Paul, Having lived near Philadelphia, PA most of my adult life (I moved out here to MO three years ago), I'm very familiar with Longwood Gardens. I know what you mean about their declining cp display, so I wrote a friend of mine who works there (although the cp's aren't in her area). First, your premise that Longwood Gardens has "conservatories" and should therefore be preserving rare species is flawed... Longwood has never called itself a botanical garden, nor has it ever purported to be maintaining or preserving rare plants. It was originally a DuPont estate, and its mandate is to follow that estate's wishes: it is, and always has been, primarily a display garden, not a botanical garden. If they grow cp's, it will be because the DuPonts may have had them, back when it was in fashion to grow them in hot houses, and/or because they are beautiful (NOT because they are endangered). In contrast, the institution where I work (the Missouri Botanical Garden) IS primarily a botanical garden, and its mission has ALWAYS included the goal of preserving rare and interesting species... so OUR garden could certainly be called upon to preserve cp's in any way possible. That's not to say we're doing a perfect job either: when I first came here three years ago, our once wonderful collection had declined to a mere shadow of itself. We had had a curator who was very interested in cp's, but after she left, the collection slowly degraded. That is often the case at ANY botanical garden, unfortunately. I have worked to improve and expand the collection once again, and have enlarged and improved our display a lot... I hope you can come see it someday! My friend did say, however, that Longwood certainly could have a better cp display, and the gardener in charge of them IS interested in them, so hopefully things will improve. I think if we want to encourage them, we shouldn't be on the attack, and should instead stress to them how LOVELY these plants are, and how interested people are to see them grown well. Anything that increases ticket sales, of course, always helps! Susan > I stated that I thought things were going downhill back in the > Spring... "downhill" would be a step up now. I urge everyone to mail > or email (as I have repeatedly) to Longwood Gardens to reverse this > trend. Longwood Gardens was reknowned (at one time) for having the > best selection of Nepenthes in America- they had an entire room > devoted to them- but now they have two closet sized areas in a > hallway. For a "Conservatory" to snub the single most > conservation-needing plants in the world is just plain dumb. > > Cheers, > Paul > Susan Farrington Missouri Botanical Garden P.O. Box 299 St. Louis MO 63166-0299 susan.farrington@mobot.org (314)577-9402 ################### From: Steven Stewart Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 08:48:09 -0500 Subject: Fire ants & Sarracenia Here in Central Florida, fire ants have become quite naturalized. I have seen populations of Sarracenia minor growing in powerline right of way almost covered to the top in fire ant mounds, with only the hood protruding. This relationship seems to cause the plants to form tall robust pitchers, but in times of drought the loose soil formed by the ants dries to a level deadly to the Sarracenia. I use a product called Amdro whenever I see any sign of fire ants. If you use it carefully only on fire ants, the native ants, ant-lions, possibly _Brachynemurus_ sp. and other ant eaters, can keep fire ant populations almost non existant. The best overall ant eating plant species I have is Nepenthes bicalcarata, many ant species love to sacrifice themselves to to the plants I have. Take care, Steven Stewart ################### From: Phil Sheridan Date: Sun, 06 Jan 1980 11:04:18 -0800 Subject: Re: pitchers and fire ants Hi Folks: Regarding pitcher plants and fire ants we have observed that S. minor does indeed capture large numbers of this insect. What is particularly interesting, and worth investigating, is a comparison of native ant captures vs. fire ant captures. Since fire ants are new to this region they have not coevolved with the Sarracenia and may be captured at higher rates than other ant species. This is an excellent project for a high school in south Georgia or a masters level project. Best, Phil Sheridan Director Meadowview Biological Research Station ################### From: CALIFCARN@aol.com Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 16:32:15 EST Subject: Re: Fire ants in Flytrap Country Howdy kids, Peter here at California Carnivores: I just thought I'd mention that when I went on a field trip with Larry Mellichamp and Ron Gardner a few years ago, down in the Wilmington, North Carolina area, scattered amid the flytraps and pitcher plants were nothing BUT fire ant hills. I was astounded at how many there were, like every 20 feet or so. A thousand years ago when I was going to college in Miami (Florida), I had a tank of carnivores outdoors in my backyard. One day I went out to look at them and kneeled beside the tank in the grass. I was suddenly attacked by fire ants, who didn't seem interested in the plants at all, just me! I survived (barely) about 100 very painful stings, an experience I'll never forget. Seeya. Peter ################### From: Christer Berglund Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 00:39:44 +0100 Subject: D. spec. "Auyan Tepui" and U. humboldtii division? Hi, Does anyone know what type of sundew D. spec. "Auyan Tepui" is, rosetted, upright, steam-forming? When propagating U. humboldtii, by division, do I need to include a leafy part with the stolon (traps) to be successful? Regards, -- Christer Berglund E-mail: christer.berglund@amiga.pp.se ################### From: "mike wilder" Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 00:03:20 GMT Subject: d. ordensis/pinguicula book happy new year! i have two questions: 1. i germinated d. ordensis in late spring 1999. the plants are in a mix of 8 parts sand to 2 parts peat. at this time, the rosette is about one inch in diameter, which seems small to me. the temperature never drops below 65 F, and tends to be closer to 72. i've tried varying the light intensity and humidity, but the little guys never look overly happy. can anyone who has successfully grown this species from seed share info about compost, light levels, humidity levels, and growth rates? (if you recommend a different compost, please advise whether transplanting plants of this size would be wise.)incidentally, the conditions i've had the ordensis in seem to suit d. paradoxa just fine. 2. in the back of tony camillieri's book, he cites a book on pinguicula called "pings and how to grow them", or something similar. (sorry, i don't have tony's book at hand.) i've never heard of this book; does anyone have any info about it? thanks for all--mike ################### From: "Diane Charette" Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 23:22:05 -0500 Subject: Heliamphora in flower Hi, I have a H. het x minor in flower right now and i wonder if these flowers are self-fertiles like D.capensis or do they need another one for making seeds? Thanx a lot Tom [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Susan Farrington" Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 06:58:58 -0600 Subject: St. Louis CPS The St. Louis Carnivorous Plant Society will be holding its next meeting January 13, 2000 at 6:30 pm at the Missouri Botanical Garden. All are welcome, beginners and experienced growers alike, kids or adults. Hope to see you there! We'll also probably be holding a "potting party" in the next couple of weeks to pot up plants for a show and sale in June. Contact me for further details. Susan Farrington Missouri Botanical Garden P.O. Box 299 St. Louis MO 63166-0299 susan.farrington@mobot.org (314)577-9402 ################### From: Rich Ellis Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 18:06:48 -0700 Subject: Re: d. ordensis/pinguicula book On Tue, 4 Jan 2000 16:06:45 "mike wilder" writes: > 1. i germinated d. ordensis in late spring 1999. the plants are in a mix of > 8 parts sand to 2 parts peat. at this time, the rosette is about one inch in > diameter, which seems small to me. the temperature never drops below 65 F, > and tends to be closer to 72. i've tried varying the light intensity and > humidity, but the little guys never look overly happy. can anyone who has > successfully grown this species from seed share info about compost, light > levels, humidity levels, and growth rates? (if you recommend a different > compost, please advise whether transplanting plants of this size would be > wise.)incidentally, the conditions i've had the ordensis in seem to suit d. > paradoxa just fine. The petiolaris complex to which D. ordensis belongs are happy when it is really hot. Highs in the 90-100 f range are fine. If you germinated your seed in the northern hemisphere then the plants may be in a resting state and you can decrease watering and let the plant rest till spring. As summer arrives, gradually allow them to get into the 90-100 degree range during the hottest part of the day. My D. paradoxa that I originally got from Tom Hayes aka DANGEROUS PLANTS is an awesome plant that does not seem to care what conditions are like. I have been exprimenting with growing them in pure peat, 50:50 peat sand, long fiber sphagnum moss, indoors under lights and outside in the sun. So far, none of these variables seem to matter and the plants grow and flower like crazy. Rich Boulder, Colorado http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/8564/ ################### From: Nigel Hurneyman Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 17:09:20 +0000 Subject: D. spec. "Auyan Tepui" and U. humboldtii division? Hi Christer, Plants I grew from Lowrie seed labelled sp'Auyan Tepui" formed spatulata-sized rosettes and had pale pink flowers. Regards, NigelH ################### From: Nigel Hurneyman Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 17:19:37 +0000 Subject: Re: water (by "Paul Murphy") Regarding the use of sulphuric acid, it may not alter the quantity of salts in water, but various literature I've seen (sorry, no references so this can be taken as anecdotal) suggests that the sulphates somehow mask the salts preventing their uptake by plants. Adrian Slack reportedly (another anecdote) watered his plants for a several months on tap water treated with sulphuric acid without any ill effects. I don't know how hard his tap water was to start with or whether he repotted his plants at the end of that time. Regarding alternatives to sulphuric acid, how would you rate citric acid? It is readily available from the home-brewing counter in many shops, although it seems to have a limited shelf life. Regards, NigelH ################### From: Christer Berglund Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 20:49:24 +0100 Subject: re: d. ordensis/- > 1. i germinated d. ordensis in late spring 1999. the plants are in a > mix of 8 parts sand to 2 parts peat. at this time, the rosette is > about one inch in diameter, which seems small to me. the temperature > never drops below 65 F, and tends to be closer to 72. i've tried > varying the light intensity and humidity, but the little guys never > look overly happy. can anyone who has successfully grown this species > from seed share info about compost, light levels, humidity levels, and > growth rates? (if you recommend a different compost, please advise > whether transplanting plants of this size would be wise.)incidentally, > the conditions i've had the ordensis in seem to suit d. paradoxa just > fine. Hi Mike, I have D. ordensis (Kununurra) which germinated in May of 1999. I sowed two batches: one on pure sphagnum peat moss, and the other on one part each of peat moss and sand, and due to my laziness they have remained in the same pots until today. The plant sizes is from approx. 1.5 cm to just short of 4 cm i diameter (some has entered dormancy). Since last summer I have been feeding them periodically quite heavily with fruitflies. As I wrote above, I haven't transplanted any of them yet and some of them is suffering from the crowding, but I plan to rectify this situation soon. The temps I keep my plants in is from the low 70's d F (21 d C) in the nighttime to low 80's d F (28 d C) in the daytime. I kept the pots in plastic bags one foot below two 18 W fluorescent light bulbs (Osram lumilux with clip-on reflectors) and one 30 W light bulb the first 5 months, but now they are in a small terrarium (fish tank). Conditions now are; light: two 15 W light bulbs, humidity: above 60 %, the temperature day/night is almost the same as before. Before they were moved into the terrarium they were exposed to lower daytime temps and lower light, for some weeks, which caused three of them to go dormant. They haven't resumed growth after that, but several other specimens (in the same pot) is in full growth. This species is definitely one of my favorites with its lovely combination of the whitish green petioles and orange red traps. Mike, what is causing you to worry about your plants? Do they grow fewer leaves, shorter leaves, no dew, or? Regards, -- Christer Berglund E-mail: christer.berglund@amiga.pp.se ################### From: "John Green" Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 14:01:34 -0700 Subject: Cold/Hot hardiness? I'll be re-doing my outdoor bog this spring. I'm upgrading to one of those nice hard black plastic pond forms which is about three times as large as my existing bog (thanks to my mother-in-law), and I'd like to plant something other than just S. oreophila (which is all I have outside now). Specifically I'm wondering about the cold hardiness of S. leucophylla, S. rubra, S. flava, S. purpurea venosa, and VFTs. Also wondering how well S. purpurea purpurea does in hot climates. Salt Lake City has long, cold winters with a lot of snow, and hot, dry summers in the upper 90s F (around 37-38 C). The bog will still be under the rain gutter next to the house, and I will continue to mulch it over winter. If anyone has any experience with the above I'd appreciate your comments or suggestions. Thanks in advance, John Green Salt Lake City, Utah PS - I have a few different types of pygmy gemmae I'm selling. If interested, there's a note near the bottom of the CP Trading Post, or e-mail me for details (prefer USA only). ################### From: Rich Ellis Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 14:53:42 -0700 Subject: Re: Cold/Hot hardiness? On Wed, 5 Jan 2000 "John Green" writes: > Specifically I'm wondering about the cold hardiness of S. > leucophylla, S. rubra, S. flava, S. purpurea venosa, and VFTs. Also > wondering how well S. purpurea purpurea does in hot climates. Howdy John I have had success with all of the species you listed with my outdoor bog in Colorado which I suspect has a similar climate to you in Utah. While S. leucophylla survived the winter here OK (with mulching) I have found that it starts to put up its best fall pitchers about the same time we start getting frosts at night here. Ultimately I think this will kill or stunt the plant but we will see. I recall Dave Evans did quite well with S. leuco in New Jersey however. The S. purpurea purpurea did well this summer (as did S. purpurea venosa). I suspect that even though the air temp is quite hot, it remains much cooler down at the level of the moss - especially since it is such a short plant. S. purpurea x leucophylla has done particularly well and perhaps makes a good comprimise? S. rubra has done well also. I have no idea where my S. flava clones originate but I would love to get some of the Virginia strains of S. flava as I think they would do very well out here. My VFTs looked great this spring but generally deteriorated over the summer. Not sure why but i would not be surprised if they do not survive the winter. Rich Boulder, Colorado http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/8564/ ################### From: Drury Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 17:43:32 -0600 Subject: Need U. pubescens help! I have had a U. pubescens for a year now. It stated out doing very well, producing 2 inche stolons at the surface. It has been steadily growing smaller since then. I don't understand it's dormancy, so I have kept it in a tropical enviroment since I've had it. I have it in a clear plastic cup in my terrarium. I think there is plenty of light, because my other plants are doing well enough to bloom. I do not let it sit in water. I do not let it dry out. It is potted in mostly long fiber sphagnum, with some orchid medium. It has produced some root system, but not much. I understand it is a epiphytic utric. , that is why I put it in such a coarse medium. Don Drury ################### From: Drury Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 17:55:06 -0600 Subject: OOps! I ment U. longifolia When I complained about my poor U.pubescens, I was confused and really ment U. longifolia. I'm Sorry Don Drury http://www.chouteautel.com/~drury-ct/ ################### From: "Dave Evans" Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 19:52:17 -0500 Subject: Re: OOps! I ment U. longifolia Sorry Don, U. longifolia doesn't have tubers either. Does it loose all it's leaves when it goes dormant? Dave Evans ################### From: "Dave Evans" Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 19:57:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Need U. pubescens help! I think the trick to these plants is they need a natural lighting cycle for the year. I have seen a couple very happy clones of U.longifolia in a greenhouse, but mine under lights from cuttings of these clones are never as happy. But I'm trying out 10-11 hours of light on the some plants, like these Utrics and some of those finicky winter growing Drosera and they are doing better... Dave Evans P.S. I don't think U.longifolia grows very fast anyway. > I have had a U. pubescens for a year now. It stated out doing very well, producing 2 inche stolons at the surface. > It has been steadily growing smaller since then. I don't understand it's dormancy, so I have kept it in a tropical enviroment since I've had it. I have it in a clear plastic cup in my terrarium. I think there is plenty of light, because my other plants are doing well enough to bloom. I do not let it sit in water. I do not let it dry out. It is potted in mostly long fiber sphagnum, with some orchid medium. It has produced some root system, but not much. I understand it is a epiphytic utric. , that is why I put it in such a coarse medium. > > Don Drury > > ################### From: "Greg Bourke" Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 15:37:17 EST Subject: B. hechtioides G'day, I recently acquired some B. hechtioides seed which I have germinated. They are two weeks old now and naturally are growing quite slow. Could anyone tell me how to cultivate them (light levels, potting mix etc.)? Also any info on how and where they grow in their natural habitat? ################### From: "Pierre GELINAUD" Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 13:44:37 +0900 Subject: Utricularia dimorphanta Hi thierry If your U. dimorphanta grows well but without traps, perhaps it needs something more like CO2, but I'm not sure. Mine are growing slowly now and with few big traps (one for 3 or 4 leaves). I use (a little) some feeding for aquarium plants to provide B, Mn, Co, Fe ... and a CO2 diffuser. The CO2 concentration is around 18 mg/l. Pierre Gelinaud http://www.multimania.com/piilou/ http://www.ii-okinawa.ne.jp/people/a-miya/ piilou@pop.multimania.com [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Susan Farrington" Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 07:40:23 -0600 Subject: outdoor bogs and VFT Rich, Is if possible your VFT's were too wet this summer? I've certainly seen that they hate being water logged all the time, and need to be a bit higher and drier than Sarracenia. One person I know in Illinois with an outdoor bog says he put logs along the edge of his bog, raising the media in that region, and plants his VFT's in that raised section. Susan > My VFTs looked great this spring but generally deteriorated over the > summer. Not sure why but i would not be surprised if they do not survive > the winter. > > Rich > Susan Farrington Missouri Botanical Garden P.O. Box 299 St. Louis MO 63166-0299 susan.farrington@mobot.org (314)577-9402 ################### From: Steven Stewart Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 10:02:54 -0500 Subject: Sarracenia in CO &Utricularia On the subject of Sarracenia grown outdoors in Colorado, USA. I did quite a bit of experimentation in the 1970's in Greeley and Boulder. The main problems I found were short growing seasons, with plants producing their best foliage during the 60-70F. warm periods, followed by -10F cold periods. The soft growth of the rhizome would split and rot, even Sarr. purpurea was fooled into growth during Colrado's January & Febrary Chinook(warm) winds. I'm not familiar with Utah winters, but I would think if you can keep your plants in a reliable state of dormancy it will help. My Utricularia longifolia (thank's Jay)are now sending up their first inflorescence. The plants I have are fast growing but it has been a over a year of growing time, in a greenhouse using long-fibered Sphagnum and full drainage. Take care, Steven Stewart Sanford, Fl. ################### From: Michael Vanecek Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 10:10:03 -0600 Subject: Re: outdoor bogs and VFT What online reseller sells CP safe fungicide? I need some yesterday, and there isn't anything local... -- Cheers, Mike http://dotfile.net/ mailto:info@dotfile.net <-------------------------------------------------> "My zeal to start using Linux is stronger than my fear of looking like a dummy." --Some Wise Man <-------------------------------------------------> Why does Sea World have a seafood restaurant? I'm halfway through my fishburger and I realize, Oh my God....I could be eating a slow learner. ################### From: "Fred C. Heller" Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 18:46:53 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: outdoor bogs and VFT I use one called Topsin that you can find in any gardening store (at least in europe) without problems. The thing is to dilute it enough. It's systemic as well. Fred At 08:13 06/01/2000 -0800, you wrote: >What online reseller sells CP safe fungicide? I need some yesterday, and >there isn't anything local... > >-- >Cheers, >Mike > >http://dotfile.net/ >mailto:info@dotfile.net ><-------------------------------------------------> >"My zeal to start using Linux is stronger than my >fear of looking like a dummy." --Some Wise Man ><-------------------------------------------------> >Why does Sea World have a seafood restaurant? I'm >halfway through my fishburger and I realize, Oh my >God....I could be eating a slow learner. > > ################### From: "Fernando Rivadavia-Lopes" Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:48:24 -0200 Subject: Re: OOps! I ment U. longifolia Dear Don, >>When I complained about my poor U.pubescens, I was confused and really ment U. longifolia. >U. longifolia doesn't have tubers either. Does it loose all it's leaves >when it goes dormant? Nor is U.longifolia epiphytic....... Nor does it go dormant........ Nor is it exactly tropical (it grows on cool highlands)........ Good luck, Fernando Rivadavia Sao Paulo, Brazil ################### From: Michael Vanecek Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 14:05:33 -0600 Subject: fungicide [was Re: outdoor bogs and VFT] I found their site, but there wasn't any help for a small time buyer like myself. Any online nursuries in the states carrying this stuff? "Fred C. Heller" wrote: > > I use one called Topsin that you can find in any gardening store (at least in europe) without problems. The thing is to dilute it enough. It's systemic as well. > Fred > > At 08:13 06/01/2000 -0800, you wrote: > >What online reseller sells CP safe fungicide? I need some yesterday, and > >there isn't anything local... > > > >-- > >Cheers, > >Mike > > > >http://dotfile.net/ > >mailto:info@dotfile.net > ><-------------------------------------------------> > >"My zeal to start using Linux is stronger than my > >fear of looking like a dummy." --Some Wise Man > ><-------------------------------------------------> > >Why does Sea World have a seafood restaurant? I'm > >halfway through my fishburger and I realize, Oh my > >God....I could be eating a slow learner. > > > > -- Cheers, Mike http://dotfile.net/ mailto:info@dotfile.net <-------------------------------------------------> "My zeal to start using Linux is stronger than my fear of looking like a dummy." --Some Wise Man <-------------------------------------------------> Why does Sea World have a seafood restaurant? I'm halfway through my fishburger and I realize, Oh my God....I could be eating a slow learner. ################### From: Christer Berglund Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 22:49:52 +0100 Subject: re:D. spec. "Auyan Tepui" ...) > Hi Christer, > > Plants I grew from Lowrie seed labelled sp'Auyan Tepui" formed > spatulata-sized rosettes and had pale pink flowers. > > Regards, NigelH Hi Nigel, Thanks for your reply. I have newly germinated seedlings which originate from seed purchased from Lowrie, and now I have an idea of what to expect when they are adult. Thanks again, -- Christer Berglund E-mail: christer.berglund@amiga.pp.se ################### From: CALIFCARN@aol.com Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:02:11 EST Subject: Re: Cold hardy plants Howdydoo, Peter here at California Carnivores. I enjoy reading about John and Rich's plans and experience with Sarracenia outdoors in cold temperate climates. I keep getting reports from customers who tell me things I mentioned in The Savage Garden concerning cold hardiness. It may be the mild winters of late, but there are folks as far north as Chicago who have been having success with Sarracenia in bog gardens outdoors. At the last Bay Area meeting, Joe Mazrimas showed outdoor bog gardens in Vermont that for years have had S. flava and other plants survive year after year. Here at our nursery I've been breeding Sarracenia for cold hardiness. One plant we have in stock is S. purpurea ssp. purpurea x flava (mature plants for $20). I also have a single large plant of the Virginia S. flava (not for sale yet) that I hope to use for breeding purposes. After I received this clone, I was amazed at how beautiful it is, and very tall. It's a very veiny form of S. flava, and should make a nice match for other cold hardy Sarracenia like S. rubra ssp. jonesii and oreophila. I would like this year to cross it with the purp purp x flava I mentioned, which is a purple but small plant. Th-th-th-that's all folks! ################### From: "Fred C. Heller" Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 23:15:12 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: fungicide [was Re: outdoor bogs and VFT] either ask them where they sell it in the US http://www.elf-atochem.com/newelf/agchem/contactus.html Or contact Peter D'Amato and see what he's got to offer : California Carnivores 7020 Trenton-Healdsburg Rd. Forestville, CA 95436 Voice: (707) 838-1630 Fax: (707) 838-9899 email: califcarn@aol.com http://californiacarnivores.com/ Or use a systemic fungicide that you dilute more than it should be, do not spray it directly on the plants as it could burn them but on the sphagnum around them. Happy growing Fred At 12:07 06/01/2000 -0800, you wrote: >I found their site, but there wasn't any help for a small time buyer >like myself. Any online nursuries in the states carrying this stuff? > >"Fred C. Heller" wrote: >> >> I use one called Topsin that you can find in any gardening store (at least in europe) without problems. The thing is to dilute it enough. It's systemic as well. >> Fred >> >> At 08:13 06/01/2000 -0800, you wrote: >> >What online reseller sells CP safe fungicide? I need some yesterday, and >> >there isn't anything local... >> > >> >-- >> >Cheers, >> >Mike >> > >> >http://dotfile.net/ >> >mailto:info@dotfile.net >> ><-------------------------------------------------> >> >"My zeal to start using Linux is stronger than my >> >fear of looking like a dummy." --Some Wise Man >> ><-------------------------------------------------> >> >Why does Sea World have a seafood restaurant? I'm >> >halfway through my fishburger and I realize, Oh my >> >God....I could be eating a slow learner. >> > >> > > >-- >Cheers, >Mike > >http://dotfile.net/ >mailto:info@dotfile.net ><-------------------------------------------------> >"My zeal to start using Linux is stronger than my >fear of looking like a dummy." --Some Wise Man ><-------------------------------------------------> >Why does Sea World have a seafood restaurant? I'm >halfway through my fishburger and I realize, Oh my >God....I could be eating a slow learner. > > ################### From: JDPDX@aol.com Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 17:17:08 EST Subject: Growing Outdoors: Photos I'm trying to tackle a problem. I'm a small grower/reseller of CP in the Pacific Northwest. Most of my clientle are first-time buyers who haven't a clue about how to grow CP, but have had plenty of experience killing Venus Flytraps, and are very well-versed in the abundant misinformation that is out there. They would like to try CP, but are afraid of them. Here in the Northwest, west of the Cascade range, all of the Sarracenia, Venus Flytraps, temperate sundews and butterworts all grow very well in our climate outdoors. It's often hard to convince people of that. I'm looking for photos any of you might have that show CP growing outdoors in bog gardens, container gardens, alongside ponds, on patios, pictures with snow on Sarracenia, hanging baskets, etc... E-mail me if you have anything you would like to share. It will help many people new to growing CP to be successful. I would love to see the day when a small savage garden is as common on a sunny patio as are petunias. Jeff Dallas Sarracenia Northwest ################### From: "Fred C. Heller" Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 23:45:14 +0100 (MET) Subject: Belgian Bog garden I have started a small bog garden in my back yard which contains two Sarracenia hybrid, two Sarracenia Leucophylla, Three Sarracenia purpurrea ssp. purpurrea, three Sarracenia psittacina and three Venus Flytraps. It's about half a square meter big ! two third of it are a pond (Where I set some U. Vulgaris) a foot deep, the remaining third is a mix of 2/3 peat and 1/3 sand. The Sarracenia are in the back, a bit higher up, near the water's edge I've placed the S. psittacina and a VFT. The one VFT that was partially shaded by some leaves thrived whereas the one enjoying full sun died. I planted them back in March, and had quite a fit with birds destroying my Sarracenia to get at the insects trapped inside. Then a VFT and a Sarracenia purpurrea ssp purp. died off for no apparent reason. I wanted to remove one Sarracenia psittacina and but it in the garage for the winter but I was too lazy to do it ;-) It's doing just fine ! Actually it kept getting more and more colors with time. My Sarracenia purp. ssp. purp. actually were quite beautiful in October, being green with deep purple veins, but only turned completely deep purple red color in November (I don't know why). The Sarracenia Leucophylla kept look healthy and protrude from the heap of leaves that I set on top of all the bog plants. All are going well . As it is winter I have covered them with a stack of birch tree leaves from my yard, they've been under snow already, the pond has frozen over a couple times (for a few days at a time) but they seem to be doing ok , all of them. I'm not sure if the VFTs are gonna survive the winter here in Belgium but it has been a mild winter so far. I also scattered some D. Intermedia and D. rotundifolia in late September, those come from the Ardennes near Spa, from the "Fagne de Malchamps", those are the wild form ;-) I still have seeds collected in late august and kept in the fridge since if ever... Fred At 14:07 06/01/2000 -0800, you wrote: >Howdydoo, Peter here at California Carnivores. > I enjoy reading about John and Rich's plans and experience with >Sarracenia outdoors in cold temperate climates. I keep getting reports >from customers who tell me things I mentioned in The Savage Garden >concerning cold hardiness. It may be the mild winters of late, but >there are folks as far north as Chicago who have been having success >with Sarracenia in bog gardens outdoors. At the last Bay Area meeting, >Joe Mazrimas showed outdoor bog gardens in Vermont that for years have >had S. flava and other plants survive year after year. Here at our >nursery I've been breeding Sarracenia for cold hardiness. One plant we >have in stock is S. purpurea ssp. purpurea x flava (mature plants for >$20). I also have a single large plant of the Virginia S. flava (not >for sale yet) that I hope to use for breeding purposes. After I >received this clone, I was amazed at how beautiful it is, and very >tall. It's a very veiny form of S. flava, and should make a nice match >for other cold hardy Sarracenia like S. rubra ssp. jonesii and >oreophila. I would like this year to cross it with the purp purp x >flava I mentioned, which is a purple but small plant. > Th-th-th-that's all folks! > > > > ################### From: DGolde1404@aol.com Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 18:54:19 EST Subject: Re: CP'ers in Connecticut I live in Connecticut. I would like to create a list of people in the tri-state area who also raise C.P.s. This would be for the purposes of plant and information exchange. Perhaps a mini-symposium could be arranged or a membership trip to an interesting site or arboretum. Please contact me via this list if you would be interested. ################### From: (Howard J. Wu L.Ac) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 20:28:36 +0000 Subject: Growing U. longifolia On growing U. longifolia: This plant grows like a weed for me in live sphagnum under fluorescence. I put some in a tall recycled plastic cookie container then seal it to keep it in constant high humidity. It will fill the container in a few months. However after a point the growth will slow down unless I divided it and give it more sphagnum. While CP's "don't like to be fertilized", obviously they can only get as large as available nutrients allow in a closed system as would any plant. I can see lots of tiny traps along the sides of the container over time so it must be hungry for something... Incidently, this strain has never bloomed for me or anyone else I know who had it. However, I have a plant given to me as 'U. endressi' which may just be a 'dwarf U. longifolia.' This plant last summer gave me several purple flowers with yellow on it that looks just like U. longifolia picture in a book. I grew this the same way. Howard J. Wu Bishop Ca. mrwu@qnet.com ################### From: "Joe Harden" Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 08:37:52 -0600 Subject: Cocofiber Pots I was in search of some hanging baskets for my Nepenthes x coccinea, and came across some nice ones lined with Cocofiber, which claimes to come from coconuts. I have no idea if this will help my digestive system as regular fiber, but thats no concern... Does anyone have experience with cocofiber & Carnivorous Plants? Joe www.carnivorous-kingdom.com ################### From: "John Green" Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 08:59:13 -0700 Subject: S. leucophylla "Tarnok" Is this cultivar very widespread in cultivation yet? I've searched all the web sites I usually frequent and couldn't find it anywhere. I just found some pictures of it last night in an old CPN (Dec 93 - the only year I was a member) and would love to add it to my collection. Thanks, John Green Salt Lake City, Utah ################### From: "John Green" Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 08:59:11 -0700 Subject: Re: Cold hardiness Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions. I hadn't even considered the length of the growing season with S. leucophylla, but I'll try it anyway. I'll also take Susan's advice and try to plant the VFTs a bit higher and drier. Boy! Now I can't wait for spring so I can get started on it! > I'm not familiar with Utah winters, but I would think if > you can keep your plants in a reliable state of dormancy > it will help. As for keeping the plants dormant, a thick layer of mulch seems to help. I didn't remove it last spring till the beginning of March, and it was still pretty cold at that time. I'll keep the list posted on what works and what doesn't. I've used regular straw as a mulch the last two years, but next fall I'm going to try to find enough pine needles to cover it over (not too many pines in my neighborhood, mostly spruces). As for Mike looking for a fungicide, I've used Captan (I think) mixing it about 1/4 strength, and it seems to work well without any harmful effects. Thanks again, John Green Salt Lake City, Utah ################### From: "Fernando Rivadavia-Lopes" Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 14:06:16 -0200 Subject: More New Drosera from Down Under.... To all, I just received volume 13, number 1 of Nuytsia from Allen Lowrie with several papers of his. All deal with the triggerplants (Stylidium spp.) except for one article about the yellow-flowered tuberous sundews. The title is: "A taxonomic review of the yellow-flowered tuberous species of _Drosera_ (Droseraceae) from south-west Western Australia". Here's the abstract for those interested: "Five tuberous species of _Drosera_ (Droseraceae) with yellow flowers are endemic in south-west Western Australia. They all belong in _Drosera_ sect._Ergaleium_ (DC.) Planchon. Descriptions and illustrations are presented for four of these species: _Drosera subhirtella_ Planchon, _D.moorei_ (Diels) Lowrie _com.nov._, _D.zigzagia_ Lowrie _sp.nov._, and _D.intricata_ Planchon, which is reinstated. These four species are closely related and are collectively refered to here as the _Drosera subhirtella_ complex. The only other tuberous species to have yellow flowers is _Drosera sulphurea_ Lehm., which is reinstated here as distinct from its closest relative, the pink-flowered _D.neesii_ Lehm. Although not closely related to the _Drosera subhirtella_ complex, _D.sulphurea_ can be confused with members of that group and therefore a key to all five yellow-flowered species is provided." So for all of you who have Lowrie's Volume 1, go get your books to take a look at what's new. There were only two subspecies of _D.subhirtella_ in there: subsp._subhirtella_ and subsp._moorei_. Both of these are now seperate species. As for _D.intricata_ (nice name for a climbing tuberous sundew, huh?), this species is now recognized by Allen as being a truly valid species, after having remained a synonym of _D.subhirtella_ for decades. Now _D.zigzagia_ was for me the most interesting part of the paper. This is a truly new species unidentified by anyone else previously. It has a short erect stem (5-7cm) which, as the name says, is zig-zagged between each leaf axil. Now that's what I call an original name for a CP! What a fertile imagination Allen must have to still not have run out of names after so many new species of CP and triggerplants accumulated over these past decades! Anyways, the only part of the paper which was not too clear for me were the changes made to the _D.neesii_ complex. In his Volume 1, Allen included _D.neesii_ subsp._neesii_ and subsp._borealis_. One of the main characteristics distinguishing these two was that the former had yellow flowers and the latter pink. Now in this most recent paper, Allen claims that _D.sulphurea_ (another pretty name I'd hate to see thrown away!) is easily distinguishable from _D.neesii_ because, among other things, the former has yellow flowers and the latter (both subsp.) have pink flowers. Am I missing an article? Apparently, somewhere along the taxonomic line since Lowrie's Volume 1 and this latest paper, _D.neesii_ subsp._neesii_ must have been considered as including both pink and yellow flowered specimens, for the yellow flowered ones to be now separated as _D.sulphurea_. Reading Allen's Volume 1, I see that what he refers to as subsp._neesii_ is what he now calls _D.sulphurea_ while what he refers to as subsp._borealis_ includes both subsp._neesii_ and subsp_borealis_ as described in his latest paper (differentiated mainly by tuber color). Most likely, he must have realized at some point that the yellow-flowered specimens did not correspond to the type specimens of _D.neesii_, but to that of _D.sulphurea_ and that what he called subsp._borealis_ in his Volume 1 included both the type specimens of _D.neesii_ (dark maroon tuber) and subsp._borealis_ (white tubers). Well, either way I'm sure future books or papers of Allen's reviewing other species complexes will clear this story up, as well as continuously add more species to the already humongous list from that CP-rich corner of the world. Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia Sao Paulo, Brazil ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 08:21:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: Cold hardy, heat tolerant Sarracenia >year after year. Here at our nursery I've been breeding Sarracenia for >cold hardiness. One plant we have in stock is S. purpurea ssp. purpurea x >flava (mature plants for $20). I also have a single large plant of the >Virginia S. Hey Peter, Meanwhile, in the other direction, I've been keeping my eyes open for plants that survive well in the HEAT! Too many Sarracenia get all ratty and crispy, when grown by desert dwellers. In the next issue of CPN we will have a new Sarracenia cultivar that is a good plant for blast furnace cultivators! Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 08:37:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: ICPS pick of the day Hey folks, So I've just been informed that the ICPS site, www.carnivorousplants.org, is the web site pick of the day at http://www.ulysse.net/xtr/ I took a look at the site. Very arty. Very, uh, something. Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 09:06:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: Trifid Hey folks Yet another posting.... I just got my issue of Trifid, produced by the Czech society Darwiniana. Excellent congratulations are due to this society. While I cannot read the text (!), the blend of articles looks great. I just love the line drawings in the issue---they have a great group of artists! Cheers Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: Marianne Perdomo Machin Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 17:58:16 +0000 Subject: Re: OOps! I ment U. longifolia >>U. longifolia doesn't have tubers either. Does it loose all it's leaves >>when it goes dormant? > Nor is U.longifolia epiphytic....... > Nor does it go dormant........ > Nor is it exactly tropical (it grows on cool highlands)........ Oops! But it is listed as a tropical epiphyte in "The Savage Garden"... though the intro to the list mentions some of these being highland tropicals [epiphytes]. Is the "dry winter rest period" at least true? Marianne ################### From: jneps Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 13:35:54 -0700 Subject: CPN Back Issue Hi, Just wondering if anyone out there has an extra copy of CPN vol. 20, nos. 1 and 2. If so, please email me privately. Thanks! Jeff Shafer ################### From: "Fernando Rivadavia-Lopes" Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 18:26:39 -0200 Subject: New Nepenthes species To all, I'm sure all the Nep freaks must know about this one, but here it goes. I've just received from my friend Charles Clarke a paper of his on a new species of _Nepenthes_ from Kelantan, Peninsular Malaysia. It was published in Sandakania 13 (1999): 79-87. The title is: "_Nepenthes benstonei_ (Nepenthaceae), a new pitcher plant from Peninsular Malaysia". Apparently these plants from Peninsular Malaysia were previously refered to as N.sanguinea and may also be confused with N.macrovulgaris. A few of the differences are that _N.benstonei_ may have multiple inflorescences, has terete stems, hairs on leaf upper surfaces, persistent branched red hairs on leaf margins on rosettes and short shoots, and the list continues. There are no drawings, but some nice pics (one in color even). In the acknowledgements, Charles cites my friend Bruce Salmon from New Zealand (Hi Bruce!) as having provided photos and info on the type location, Bukit Bakar. Hey! Bruce and I found this place together during our week-long trip in the area in mid 1997! That was the first time I saw wild Neps. We didn't find many species on that trip, in fact it took us a LOOOONG time to find any Neps at all. The first CP we saw was actually _U.caerulea_. Anyways, _N.sanguinea_ -- now _N.benstonei_ -- was the first and most common Nep species we saw in Peninsular Malaysia, if I remember well. The lower pitchers were especially colorful and some very large too. A real beauty! Congratulations to Charles!!!!! Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia Sao Paulo, Brazil ################### From: 8357737 Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 21:43:58 -0600 Subject: S. purpurea Hi John, You asked about growing Sarracenia purpurea outside in Salt Lake. I live in northern Minnesota and S. purpurea grows wild here. I don't think you can beat our winters. We often get 30 to 40 degrees below 0 (F) and purpurea does not mind at all. We also get 90 above in the summer, but with very high humidity. If your bog stays humid enough then purpurea should be an easy one for you. Other cp that grow wild here (and therefore are very hardy!) are Drosera anglica, D. intermedia, D. linearis, D. rotundifolia, a cross anglica x rotundifolia, x obovata, and Pinguicula vulgaris. Hope that helps you some. Anyway you can't freeze them out. bye, Anita [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "William M. Gorum, Jr." Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 23:56:17 -0600 Subject: Nepenthes questions..... Hey Listmembers.... I've got several Nepenthes questions for you. After posting a question to the list about making cuttings, I decided to try a cutting from my N. alata and my N. gracilis. The advice I got from the list was wonderful...now I'm wondering what to expect next.... 1. i had enough live sphagnum to wrap the stem of the N. alata, but it wouldn't fill the pot, so I filled the pot with long fibered sphagnum. The cutting is about a week old and I left three leaves on it...at the base of each leaf there seems to be a bud sprouting. I know that Neps have dormant buds at the base of each leaf.... Is it normal to have three buds on a cutting? The cutting is growing in the same tank as my other Neps and they're pitchering like crazy, so I know the growing conditions are right. Do need to sit the cutting in water or just keep the moss moist? How wet does it need to be? 2. I read in the SAVAGE GARDEN where N. gracilis can be rooted in water. I didn't treat the cutting with rooting hormone, and I set it in a beaker of distilled water, with only part of the stem in the water. The cutting seems to be fine. Is that a proper procedure? It's in the same conditons as the above cutting. 3. The leaves on my N. mirabilis have turned red. The plant is producing pitchers on each new leaf it grows. It's in a 40 gallon long tank with 4 36" fluorescent lights on it? I'm assuming the red color is from the light intensity. Am I right? 4. I have a N. truncata and a N. fusca that seem to be growing much slower than my other Neps. They're pitchering well, but they don't seem to be acquiring much size....do these two specied just grow slower than others? Thanks for the help!! TTYL and happy growing!! Will wgorum@softdisk.com ################### From: (Howard J. Wu L.Ac) Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 22:54:52 +0000 Subject: More comments on U. longifolia More comments on U. longifolia: >U. longifolia doesn't have tubers either. Does it loose all it's >leaves >>>when it goes dormant? >> Nor is U.longifolia epiphytic....... >> Nor does it go dormant........ >> Nor is it exactly tropical (it grows on cool >highlands)........ > >Oops! But it is listed as a tropical epiphyte in "The Savage Garden"... >though the intro to the list mentions some of these being highland >tropicals [epiphytes]. >Is the "dry winter rest period" at least true? > >Marianne Who said the tropics must be hot and humid. This was the mistake that Victorian orchid grower orginally assumed putting their poor plants in hot steamy houses. Then one day somebody opened a window, let some fresh air in and these frail plants prove themselve hardy and easier to care for. Also Rain forest have many different microclimates depending on where in the canopy you are. Near the equator they don't get summer and winter seasons but may have dry and wet seasons. Never been there, but that is what I'm told. I would love to learn more specifics about U. longifolia's ecological niche. If it doesn't grow on trees (epiphyte), how does it grow? For just big leaves it sure has tiny traps. Lack of tubers suggest to me that it doesn't come from a region with a prolonged dry season. My U. longifolia doesn't appreciate low humidity when growing at all. But when well established perhaps it could tolerate it. Maybe this is why it hasn't bloomed for me. Producing seeds sounds like a good strategy for surviving an occasional drought. By the way, does anyone know where one can pick up a copy of Peter Taylor's Monograph on Utricularia? I know it is out of print. Seen a friend copy and I must have one for my very own!! Howard J. Wu Bishop Ca. mrwu@qnet.com ################### From: bruce dudley Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 05:17:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: www.ulysee.net/xtr Hi Barry, You're right about this site - very "something", but not family rated! I'm all for free advertising so if they give ICPS nice publicity it won't hurt too much. Strange, though, would carnivorous plant pictures "interest" the person who would look at this site??? I guess maybe some pitcher plants do look,...er, well, you know! Kind of.... like, related to human anatomy. In the distant sense. Thanks for the new web site. Bruce Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 11:29:56 -0500 Subject: Germination experiment (Lowrie Drosera seed) My buddy Richard sent me some seed purchased from Allen Lowrie. I'd never done business with Lowrie in the past but heard the quantities were small. Well, they definitely were. I decided that, since I could easily count the seed in each packet, I would try to share my germination results with everyone. I typically get what I would consider excellent germination. I just planted the following seed from Lowrie, number of seed per packet: Heliamphora sp. Neblina, 3 (!!) Drosera kaieteurensis, 15 fulva, Howard River, 13 broomensis, Lake Campion, 40 kennyalli, Mitchell Plateau, 12 caduca, pink flower, Mt. Elizabeth, 11 derbyensis, Prison Tree, 18 columbiana?, Miranto, 30 villosa, It.Peak, 24 glanduligera, 40 caledonica, 9 :( from other friends: affinis Namibia, 36 hilaris, 20 arenicola, 34 Seed was planted in small plastic cups filled 1/2 way with straight peat moss and then topped off with "no damp off" = dead milled sphagnum. Surface of pots were then lightly misted with distilled water. Cups sit in about 1 cm of water in a plastic container and were sealed in a baggie placed in a dimly lit area away close to my fluorescent light setup. I avoid placing seed pots under bright conditions because slime mold, algae and moss will sometimes grow faster than the CP seed germinates. Temperature for the cooler growers will be 55-75F, temp for the petiolarises, affinis and caledonica will range from 65-85. I hope to have an update for everyone within 2 months or so. :) Happy growing! Matt [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: Bryan and Leslie Lorber Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 16:32:16 -0500 Subject: Re: More comments on U. longifolia Hi: It's been reprinted in paperback. A bit pricey but well worth it. Try the following site. http://wwwh.balogh.com Regards, Bryan Charlotte, VT " (Howard J. Wu L.Ac)" wrote: > By the way, does anyone know where one can pick up a copy of Peter > Taylor's Monograph on Utricularia? I know it is out of print. Seen a > friend copy and I must have one for my very own!! > Howard J. Wu > Bishop Ca. > mrwu@qnet.com ################### From: Steven Stewart Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 17:48:55 -0500 Subject: Heat Tolerant Sarracenia > > Hey Peter, > > Meanwhile, in the other direction, I've been keeping my eyes open for > plants that survive well in the HEAT! Too many Sarracenia get all ratty > and crispy, when grown by desert dwellers. In the next issue of CPN we > will have a new Sarracenia cultivar that is a good plant for blast furnace > cultivators! > > Barry I second the motion when it comes to heat tolerance! I have a few Sarracenia species I've grown with true year around success in the Florida heat. Sarracenia rubra and S.minor will grow well. My S.leucophylla and S.flava grow beautifully, but I rarely get any flowers. The most tolerant all-round Sarracenia I have is the hybrid S. x formosa (S.minor x S.psittacina). I don't know about it's cold tolerance levels, but it will grow as an emergent aquatic for months at a time and isn't picky about the kind water as much as most Sarr.. Now I want heat tolerant Darlingtonia, Nepenthes villosa, N. rajah,... If you all could work on that I would like it very much!! Take care, Steven Stewart I.B.W. Enterprises Inc. Sanford, Fl ################### From: Steven Stewart Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 17:58:12 -0500 Subject: Nepenthes in Peat-sand I recall Dr. Shafer wrote of growing Nepenthes rajah in peat-sand. Do you, or does anyone grow any other Nepenthes species in this mix? I have grown many N.ventricosa in peat-sand, but the one N.rafflesiana I tried did not like it a bit. Take care, Steven Stewart Sanford, Fl. ################### From: "Fred C. Heller" Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 01:20:54 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: Nepenthes in Peat-sand I've transplated a small Nepenthes vieillardii in a peat/sand mix 2/1 and it's thriving ! It's still quite small (traps 7 mm tall 3-4 wide) but has six-eight traps. I've put it in an incubator, a kindo small greenhouse. The mother plant is still in its pot, Ithink it's nealry pure peat, it's near a west facing windowsill and is thriving as well. Fred At 14:56 08/01/2000 -0800, you wrote: >I recall Dr. Shafer wrote of growing Nepenthes rajah in peat-sand. Do >you, or does anyone grow any other Nepenthes species in this mix? I have >grown many N.ventricosa in peat-sand, but the one N.rafflesiana I tried >did not like it a bit. >Take care, >Steven Stewart >Sanford, Fl. > > ################### From: Steve Hinkson Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2000 17:26:45 -0800 Subject: Blast Furnace? "we will have a new Sarracenia cultivar that is a good plant for blast furnace cultivators!" Oh! Barry, that IS good news ! *Grin* Post it here, as well? Some of us don't do hard copies...LOL, I'm begining to forget how to use a pen ! Steve Drop by and see me at : http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/6811 ################### From: CMcdon0923@aol.com Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 23:39:00 EST Subject: Cp and Fire Ants... I live just north of Dallas, and naturally we have LOTS of 'em here. And while the little *&%$@#'s may be beneficial to our CP from a nutritional point (haven't noticed any in mine). Until I moved to Texas three years ago (from Pennsylvania), I couldn't understand how something like an iddy-biddy ANT could receive so much attention. Trust me, they deserve it! Remember this rule: Fire ants MUST die the most painful, horrific, sadistic, prolonged, and excruciating death possible. If you've ever been bitten by one, I'm sure you agree. Fire ants....God's way of saying....."Size doesn't matter." Craig McDonald Frisco, Texas ################### From: Tim Malcolm Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 23:31:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: More comments on U. longifolia Taylor's monograph is also available from the Kew website at www.rbgkew.org.uk. I got my copy there. The service wasn't that great, but the price might be better, depending on where you're ordering from. ------------------------ Tim Malcolm malcol01@camosun.bc.ca ################### From: "Mauro" Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 12:31:44 -0200 Subject: "Keiki on Dionaea flower stem" Sorry for the orchid term, but my Dionaeas are growing small plants in their flower stems, is this a normal behavior? I've posted a few video captures of them in my PhotoPoint album: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=20946 Mauro Peixoto [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: Amy Ritchie Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2000 20:33:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: changing emails Hi all, I'm in the process of changing my email address. I want to have the CP digest sent to my new address. But I can't remember how to subscribe! Please tell me what email address to write to to subscribe, and what I write. Thanks, Amy P.S. Just to let you know ahead of time, my new address will be carnivorous_plant@yahoo.com The reason I am changing is because I have had lots and lots of problems with Juno lately. ################### From: "Steve Alton" Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 11:41:52 -0000 Subject: A seed supplier Dear All, Has anybody else had any experience of Doug and Vivi Rowland, who trade out of Kempston, Bedford, UK? They mostly deal in seed of cacti and succulents, but have a very nice list of CPs, with the emphasis on Drosera and Utrics. However, the last batch of seed I had from them gave me very poor germination results. This could, of course, just be me! Anybody else had anything from them? PS - if Andrew Bate would like the details for UK Resources page, let me know, huh? Steve Steve Alton UK Co-ordinator - Millennium Seed Bank Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew Wakehurst Place Tel: 01444 894079 Fax: 01444 894069 ################### From: "Philip Semanchuk" Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 10:12:51 -0500 Subject: Re: "Keiki on Dionaea flower stem" >Sorry for the orchid term, but my Dionaeas are growing small plants >in their flower stems, is this a normal behavior? Hi Mauro, This isn't normal, but it is not unheard of either. If you lay the flower stem down on some sphagnum (you may need to weigh it down with a pebble or twig), the plantlets should take root. Good growing, ################### From: "Sam Vanderstraeten" Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 16:01:10 +0100 Subject: Sarracenia flava-forms Dear all, I'm a CP enthousiast for about 6 years and I like Sarracenia quite a lot. Now I'm looking for as much as possible different S. FLAVA-FORMS and varities. Can anyone help me? If you do, you can always mail me personally ( Samvds@hotmail.com ). If have quite a lot plants for exchange (you can always ask me my list.) Thanks in advance. Sam. [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 10:53:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: ICPS on adult site, heat resistent Sarracenia > You're right about this site - very "something", but > not family rated! I'm all for free advertising so if > they give ICPS nice publicity it won't hurt too much. > Strange, though, would carnivorous plant pictures > "interest" the person who would look at this site??? > I guess maybe some pitcher plants do look,...er, well, > you know! Kind of.... like, related to human anatomy. Hey Bruce, I'll admit I barely looked at the site that highlighted the ICPS. If it leans towards the "adult" side I missed out on that part. (dang) It just struck me as a very arty site, sort of full of itself. They didn't ask us for permission for the link, the just told me about it. Ah well. As to the heat tolerant Sarracenia I mentioned recently, a few of you have asked me to preprint the article that will appear in CPN. But, as I jokingly chided in a few private emails, why not join the ICPS so you can read the description yourself! But to satisfy your curiosity in the short term, I have a photo of the cultivar at: http://www.sarracenia.com/photos2/shyb08.jpg (I'd look tonight, if I were you, the net is so slow I'm getting access error messages just looking at my own sites right now!). Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: "Dickon Worsley" Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 14:32:03 -0500 Subject: change of address Hi everybody, We just wanted to let you know that we have changed our e-mail address effective immediately. Here's the new address, so you may update your address books. dworsley@idirect.com Thanks! Dickon, Cathy & Audra ################### From: "Greg Bourke" Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:13:14 EST Subject: re:Nepenthes in sand I grow N. rajah, N. mirabilis, and N. mirabilis hybrids in peat/sand with good results. They grow outside in a bog garden with Cephalotus, Dionaea, and Drosera. The Nepenthes are in a raised section roughly 3 inches above the Drosera. Temperatures range from 2-18 celsius in winter and 15-35 celsius in summer. It takes a few seasons for Lowlands to adjust but they grow well in summer. Other Nep's that should grow in peat/sand: N. bicalcarata, N. gracilis, N. ampullaria + their hybrids. Good luck! ################### From: "Paul Edwards" Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 10:41:08 +1100 Subject: Hot Houses After much negotiation with my wife (sometimes they really don't understand the important things in life - sigh), I've got the approval for a new bigger hot house. Which possibly opens a new area of discussion. Just how do we get our spouses to understand us! No, sorry, wrong subject. That's impossible to answer! What I meant to say was, what's "the best" kind of hot house. (If there is such a thing as "the best") I currently have a plastic house over a metal frame (manufactured and sold in Australia as an "Adlo" hot house). This seems quite good, but does get rather cold in winter, and very hot in the summer. Today's forecast is for low 30s C, and even with my fogging set-up, and vents/hatches etc open, will get to around 40C in the hothouse. The heat isn't a major worry, as most CPs seem to cope with it OK, but is there a better house? Are igloos better, or glass houses, or what other options are there? I grow most varieties of CPs, but mainly Nepenthes. Any advice would be appreciated. ---------------------------------------- Paul Edwards, Bampton Park, Neerim South, Victoria. Australia. edwards@net2000.com.au ---------------------------------------- ################### From: "Andrew Marshall" Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 22:47:37 -0800 Subject: website update Hi folks, I have a new website address, new-ish look and new features on my website. It takes secured credit card orders now. The address for your inspection, comment and advice is http://cascadecarnivorous.plant.org There are still a few problems with pictures that wouldn't transfer over. Don't know why but we are working on them. Any advice from the experts on html stuff is appreciated. Best wishes and a flu free new year. Andrew Marshall Cascade Carnivorous Plants ################### From: Steve Hinkson Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 23:43:33 -0800 Subject: "Best" Hot House "Just how do we get our spouses to understand us? No, sorry, wrong subject. That's impossible to answer! What I meant to say was, what's "the best" kind of hot house?" Paul: As to your querry about the "best" Greenhouse LOL Perhaps it'd be easier to answer "how to get your spouse to understand? *grin* I guess the best would be clear glass tempered thermo-pane incorporating electrostatic sunscreen. Heated with a forced air furnace equipped with a stainless steel heat exchanger. Cooled by both refrigeration, and on the low humidity days, an evaporitive cooler. Have the glass mounted in an aluminum frame coated with a baked enamel, preferably a shade of white. Don't forget to include a full pressure de-ionization unit to keep the mist system and fog system realitively salt free. But it'll cost 'ya. *grin* Steve Drop by and see me at : http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/6811 ################### From: "YOSHIYUKI SODEKAWA" Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 20:33:25 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re:"Keiki on Dionaea flower stem" Dear Mauro, I don't think it's normal, but I have ever succeeded in separating the small plants from the flower stems. It kept growing for 2 months to be 2cm in diameter, but died probably because of my cultivation inexperience for VFT. My plants were imported from Triffied Park in Australia. They were named "Royal Red." I planted 6 of them in a large pot. When they flowered, 3 plants had very red plantlets on the stalks. There were 2 to 4 plantlets on one stalk. I waited until the small plants have at least 4 leaves with traps, then separated them with knife. I sterilized the opening and planted in sphagnum moss. Good growing! Yoshiyuki Sodekawa Member of IPS, Japan Yokohama, Japan ################### From: "Stefan P. Wolf" Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 16:03:34 +0100 Subject: Re: Cocofiber Pots Hi Joe! > I was in search of some hanging baskets for my Nepenthes x coccinea, > and came across some nice ones lined with Cocofiber, which claimes > to come from coconuts. I have no idea if this will help my digestive > system as regular fiber, but thats no concern... Does anyone have > experience with cocofiber & Carnivorous Plants? Yes, very bad experience! I got one of these cocofiber bricks you can put into 10 liters of water and get a bucket of peat substitute for garden soil. As it has no additives and a perfect structure it was said to promise good suitability for CP after it already was a hot tip amongst orchid growers for some time. To cut a long story short: I killed some CP and I blame it on using cocofiber as peat replacement on these plants. It killed even D. capensis! Later I heard rumour that these coco palm trees store high amounts of salt in the fiber as they grow near the sea. I will not use it again --neither on CP nor in the garden. Best regards, Stefan. -- Dipl.-Inform. Stefan P. Wolf ................................................ mail : Zehlendorfer Str. 69, 24111 Kiel, GERMANY phone: (+49 431) 5973173 * fax: (+49 431) 697568 CP books >> http://www.angelfire.com/de/cpbooks/ ................................................ ################### From: Rich Ellis Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 08:27:35 -0700 Subject: CPers near Orlando Greetings all, I will be at a conference in Orlando next week with a few days left over to play on January 21 and 22. Unfortunately this is a bad time to see CP in the wild but I always enjoy meeting with other CPers and seeing how different folks grow their plants. If there are any commercial nurseries or anyone in the Orlando area that wants to get together, let me know at ricell@juno.com or (303) 666-9534. Thanks, Rich Boulder, Colorado http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/8564/ ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 09:13:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: Seeking volunteer for ICPS project Hey Folks, I have hatched a new scheme for the ICPS, and I would like a volunteer who could follow this up. My last scheme along these lines resulted in the CP Web Ring---maybe this new one can be as successful. I would like to have a photo gallery on the ICPS web site. This gallery would show the work of CPers who love photographing their "pets" in cultivation, in the field, etc. I imagine that every quarter, a new "theme" would be announced, and photographs would be submitted for this. As an example of what I am thinking, you could look at a photo gallery that is run by a group of people dedicated to photography with Pentax equipment. There is the gallery page, and the submission instructions page: http://pug.komkon.org/ http://pug.komkon.org/general/submit.html In order to make this a reality, I would need someone who has the following abilities/assets: 1)Knowledge of HTML, ability to write simple web pages. 2)Can accept/send emails up to 200K in size. FTP a big bonus, too. 3)Good at dealing with (occasionally) cranky people with grace (you'd be representing the ICPS). 4)Willing to work on a thankless task for no money. 5)Having a color scanner would be a plus if some people wanted to submit hard copies. Anyone interested? If not, I will probably take this on myself, but my girlfriend will kill me for taking on another project! Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: Christer Berglund Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:46:45 +0100 Subject: Anyone used atapulgit sand for cp's Hi, I wonder if anyone have used atapulgit sand for cp's? The sand is very fine small round grains and light brown in coloration. I have searched the Internet and I only found a Turkish page which mentioned the name atapulgit. Thanks in advance, -- Christer Berglund E-mail: christer.berglund@amiga.pp.se ################### From: "corpin" Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:47:53 -0000 Subject: cps Dear cps, I am a cp enthusiast, and I would like to receive regular bulletins of the CP digest. How do I go about subscribing to the lists? Best wishes, Colin. [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: Marianne Perdomo Machin Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 21:51:40 +0000 Subject: Re: More comments on U. longifolia > More comments on U. longifolia: > > Who said the tropics must be hot and humid. Not I! I know about cool tropics from my mother growing orchids. > I would love to learn more specifics about U. longifolia's ecological > niche. If it doesn't grow on trees (epiphyte), how does it grow? Me, too. I searched the web some but didn't get much information. A brazilian webpage (in Portuguese, so it will take me a while to get though it) says it's endemic to Brazil and terrestrial. There are some notes on Utricularia culture, like giving to (mostly epiphyte) tuberous utrics dormancy, which would not apply here. And that many brazilian especies are annuals (U. longifolia, too?). According to it, most especies appreciate plenty of water, and reccomends complete immersion in case of aphid infestation. It also says that U. longifolia leaves reach over 40 cm. (Mine is still tiny but sprouting new leaves, perhaps if I'm more generous with the water) The page in question is at: http://members.tripod.com/hexenmeister/Generos.htm Click on Utricularia, last of the red bars in the menu. The whole site looks good to me, but then I am only just starting with CPs. > For just > big leaves it sure has tiny traps. The page mentions that terrestrial utricularia usually dines on miscroscopic life in the soil so no feeding is necessary. Hope this helps, Now if only anybody could confirm the validity of this information (I may have mistranslated or the author mistyped or something)... Marianne ################### From: JWi5770869@aol.com Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:51:29 EST Subject: Re Doug & Vivi Rowland seeds Steve and all, You wrote: Dear All, Has anybody else had any experience of Doug and Vivi Rowland, who trade out of Kempston, Bedford, UK? They mostly deal in seed of cacti and succulents, but have a very nice list of CPs, with the emphasis on Drosera and Utrics. However, the last batch of seed I had from them gave me very poor germination results. This could, of course, just be me! Anybody else had anything from them? Yes I've had plenty of seed of them in the past and have to conclude that either they are as bad as the rest or that its me.The fact that I'm going to use GA3 this year must give you some idea that I think its me. John Wilden Southport Lancs. UK ################### From: JWi5770869@aol.com Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:53:58 EST Subject: Hothouse Dear all, >Today's forecast is for low 30s C, and even with my fogging set-up, and vents/hatches etc open, will get to around 40C in the hothouse >Are igloos better No they melt in the heat Sorry couldn't resist it!! John Wilden Southport Lancs. UK ################### From: JWi5770869@aol.com Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 19:00:25 EST Subject: U Monanthos Dear All, Reading in Lowrie's excellent Volume 3 he seems to be classing U.Monanthos with Dros. Arcturi (sorry if the spelling is a bit off) in that they both either require cold before germination in the Spring or are at least able to tolerate it. Has anybody had a go at cold-treatment of U. Monanthos seed prior to sowing and was the germination successful or do you specifically need the seed from New Zealand as opposed to Australia. Has anybody had any success germinating this Utric and what were your methods? Thanks. John Wilden Southport Lancs. UK ################### From: "Paul Edwards" Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:55:10 +1100 Subject: Re: "Best" Hot House Sounds great. Where do I get one? And how much change out of $1,000? Will you talk my wife into it? Paul PS: Thanks to all the other comedians out there. You really made my day! :-) ----- Original Message ----- To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 6:54 PM > "Just how do we get > our spouses to understand us? No, sorry, wrong subject. > That's impossible to answer! What I meant to > say was, what's "the best" kind of hot house?" > > Paul: > As to your querry about the "best" Greenhouse LOL Perhaps it'd be easier to > answer "how to get your spouse to understand? *grin* > > I guess the best would be clear glass tempered thermo-pane incorporating > electrostatic > sunscreen. Heated with a forced air furnace equipped with a stainless steel heat > exchanger. > Cooled by both refrigeration, and on the low humidity days, an evaporitive > cooler. > Have the glass mounted in an aluminum frame coated with a baked enamel, > preferably a shade of white. > Don't forget to include a full pressure de-ionization unit to keep the mist > system and fog system realitively salt free. > > But it'll cost 'ya. > *grin* > Steve > > Drop by and see me at : > http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/6811 > > ################### From: Hayes7@aol.com Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 23:09:23 EST Subject: Re: Seeking volunteer for ICPS project Barry, >I would like to have a photo gallery on the ICPS web site. This gallery >would show the work of CPers who love photographing their "pets" in >cultivation, in the field, etc. ~snip~ > Anyone interested? If not, I will probably take this on myself, but my > girlfriend will kill me for taking on another project! Perhaps this may become too much for one person to handle, but I volunteer to start the effort anyway. We have a scanner & an ftp site available for image uploads as well.... If anybody else wants to lend a hand on this, please drop Barry and I a note. Take care & keep on growing, Thomas Hayes DANGEROUS PLANTS www.dangerousplants.com ################### From: "Richard Jobson" Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 15:27:14 +1100 Subject: U. monanthos germination Dear John, After one month U. monanthos (NZ), U. violacea, and U. benthamii seed have just germinated. Seed were obtained from Allan Lowrie and placed onto wet river sand in a shaded (50%) and cool glasshouse (15 - 30 C). I did not treat the seed in any way. Hoping all the other species follow suit. Best, Richard J. P.S I recently germinated seed of true U. endresii (using the peat tea in a tube method) obtained from Cambrian Carnivors - I currently have the seedlings growing in two pots - one pure spaghnum the other peat/sand. Seems to do well in both substrates. ################### From: Phil Wilson Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:06:44 +0000 Subject: Re: U Monanthos John, >Reading in Lowrie's excellent Volume 3 he seems to be classing >U.Monanthos with Dros. Arcturi (sorry if the spelling is a bit off) in >that they both either require cold before germination in the Spring or >are at least able to tolerate it. Has anybody had a go at >cold-treatment of U. Monanthos seed prior to sowing and was the >germination successful or do you specifically need the seed from New >Zealand as opposed to Australia. Has anybody had any success >germinating this Utric and what were your methods? > Fresh seed of U. monanthos germinates without any cold treatment. I sow the seed in the spring and get germination within a few weeks. Nothing more complicated than that. Regards, Phil Wilson Email: cp@pwilson.demon.co.uk ################### From: S.Ippenberger@t-online.de (Ippenberger) Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 12:30:32 +0100 Subject: Re: U. monanthos > > Last spring I sowed NZ U. monanthos seeds onto pure peat. One batch was kept under high humidity in a normal heated room (windowsill), the other one outside in the garden. The second one got temperatures down to +5\260C but no frost. Both germinated within 4-6 weeks. Stefan > Dear All, > Reading in Lowrie's excellent Volume 3 he seems to be classing U.Monanthos > with Dros. Arcturi (sorry if the spelling is a bit off) in that they both > either require cold before germination in the Spring or are at least able to > tolerate it. > Has anybody had a go at cold-treatment of U. Monanthos seed prior to sowing > and was the germination successful or do you specifically need the seed from > New Zealand as opposed to Australia. > Has anybody had any success germinating this Utric and what were your methods? > > Thanks. > > John Wilden > Southport > Lancs. > UK > > ------------------------------ > > Topic No. 13 > > Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 13:55:10 +1100 > From: "Paul Edwards" > To: "CP List" > Subject: Re: "Best" Hot House > Message-ID: <001801bf5ca8$88dfe960$641657cb@ibm9068k73> > > > Sounds great. > Where do I get one? And how much change out of $1,000? > Will you talk my wife into it? > > Paul > > PS: Thanks to all the other comedians out there. You really made my day! :-) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Hinkson > To: Multiple recipients of list > Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 6:54 PM > Subject: "Best" Hot House > > > > "Just how do we get > > our spouses to understand us? No, sorry, wrong subject. > > That's impossible to answer! What I meant to > > say was, what's "the best" kind of hot house?" > > > > Paul: > > As to your querry about the "best" Greenhouse LOL Perhaps it'd be easier > to > > answer "how to get your spouse to understand? *grin* > > > > I guess the best would be clear glass tempered thermo-pane incorporating > > electrostatic > > sunscreen. Heated with a forced air furnace equipped with a stainless > steel heat > > exchanger. > > Cooled by both refrigeration, and on the low humidity days, an evaporitive > > cooler. > > Have the glass mounted in an aluminum frame coated with a baked enamel, > > preferably a shade of white. > > Don't forget to include a full pressure de-ionization unit to keep the > mist > > system and fog system realitively salt free. > > > > But it'll cost 'ya. > > *grin* > > Steve > > > > Drop by and see me at : > > http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/6811 > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Topic No. 14 > > Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 23:09:23 EST > From: Hayes7@aol.com > To: cp@opus.hpl.hp.com > Subject: Re: Seeking volunteer for ICPS project > Message-ID: > > Barry, > > >I would like to have a photo gallery on the ICPS web site. This gallery > >would show the work of CPers who love photographing their "pets" in > >cultivation, in the field, etc. > > ~snip~ > > > Anyone interested? If not, I will probably take this on myself, but my > > girlfriend will kill me for taking on another project! > > Perhaps this may become too much for one person to handle, but I volunteer to > start the effort anyway. We have a scanner & an ftp site available for > image uploads as well.... If anybody else wants to lend a hand on this, > please drop Barry and I a note. > > Take care & keep on growing, > > Thomas Hayes > > DANGEROUS PLANTS > > www.dangerousplants.com > > ------------------------------ > > End of CP Digest 2063 > ********************* ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 08:43:16 -0500 Subject: P.sp.Pachuca = emarginata?? Hey Ping Experts, I've noticed a good deal of similarity between the foliage of plants I have labelled as sp Pachuca and emarginata. I have yet to see either flower but was wondering if these are related or possibly the same? Thanks! Matt [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: Paul C Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 08:47:19 -0800 Subject: Sarracenia leucophylla Does anyone out there have any seed or plants of Sarracenia luecophylla available for sale or trade. The only thing I have to trade would be fresh trimmed tips of spagnum. US only, please. Respond to prc@gbso.net. Thanks, Paul C. ################### From: Tom Massey Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:08:34 -0500 Subject: RE: Sarracenia leucophylla Send me your address and i will send you seed. No need for trade. Tom in Fl. On Wednesday, January 12, 2000 9:32 AM, Paul C [SMTP:prc@gbso.net] wrote: > Does anyone out there have any seed or plants of Sarracenia > luecophylla available for sale or trade. The only thing I have to > trade would be fresh trimmed tips of spagnum. US only, please. > Respond to prc@gbso.net. > > Thanks, > > Paul C. > > ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 16:37:10 Subject: Re: P.sp.Pachuca = emarginata?? Dear Matt, > I've noticed a good deal of similarity between the foliage of plants > I have labelled as sp Pachuca and emarginata. I have yet to see > either flower but was wondering if these are related or possibly the > same? There is at least one species in cultivation called "Pachuca" that is not even remotely related to _P. emarginata_ but a fairly close relative of _P. moranensis_ (belonging to another subgenus). Do not rely on leaf morphology alone for the identification of _Pinguiculae_. You will have to wait for flowers. In the second round I expect lots of _P. moranensis_ relatives in the market labeled "P. emarginata" as a nice substitute for the useless/undefined "Pachuca". This case is another fine example why bogus names are such a pain. My tip (not a really new one): do *not* use bogus nomenclature at all. Kind regards Jan ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 11:02:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Re: P.sp.Pachuca = emarginata?? Hi Jan, It's funny how all these years I thought there was a major problem with false identification of Drosera in collections when it recently became apparent to me (upon visiting a friend with a terrific Mexican and other Ping collection - you know who you are! and get ready to send me those plants!) that there's definitely more confusion with Pings. The reason I asked whether the 2 were similar or the same was because the red coloration on the edge of the leaf only close to the center of the plant, which I was told was characteristic of this sp. Pachuca, is also present on what I received from another grower (thanks, you know who!) as emarginata. The only difference other than that is the "emarginata" have more red coloration. Oh well. Thanks for the response! Matt ----- Original Message ----- To: Sundew Sundew ; ; Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 4:37 PM > Dear Matt, > > > I've noticed a good deal of similarity between the foliage of plants > > I have labelled as sp Pachuca and emarginata. I have yet to see > > either flower but was wondering if these are related or possibly the > > same? > > There is at least one species in cultivation called "Pachuca" that is > not even remotely related to _P. emarginata_ but a fairly close > relative of _P. moranensis_ (belonging to another subgenus). Do not > rely on leaf morphology alone for the identification of _Pinguiculae_. > You will have to wait for flowers. > > In the second round I expect lots of _P. moranensis_ relatives in the > market labeled "P. emarginata" as a nice substitute for the > useless/undefined "Pachuca". This case is another fine example why > bogus names are such a pain. My tip (not a really new one): do *not* > use bogus nomenclature at all. > > Kind regards > Jan > ################### From: Ivan Snyder Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 09:31:06 -0800 Subject: U. monanthos germination Hi John and all, John Wilden wrote: >Has anybody had a go at cold-treatment of U. Monanthos seed prior to sowing >and was the germination successful or do you specifically need the seed from >New Zealand as opposed to Australia. >Has anybody had any success germinating this Utric and what were your methods? I got seed of this species from Brian Quinn in New Zealand. The seed germinated without cold stratification for me. I simply sowed the seed in an already established pot of peat/sand next to something else, no special treatment. I think it took about 3-4 weeks to germinate. The plant grew well and interestingly made traps on top of the soil which looked like tiny Cephalotus pitchers. I had read that a particular form flowers often, I must have gotten another since mine never flowered and so I gave up on the plant. I have tried germinating seed of D. arcturi and D. stenopetala, two species which grow along with U. monanthos, and used every trick I could think of including cold stratification, freezing, GA3, etc. but had no luck. My guess is these just take a year to sprout. Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ################### From: "Joseph Kinyon" Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 10:30:43 -0800 Subject: staghorn fern An off topic subject Hello folks, I have recieved a staghorn fern and their is no staghorn fern listserve to join! (grin) Can anyone offer some beyond basic growing tips. E-mail me directly on this subject. Also, I started building a 10 x 5 foot green house out of windows from Building Resources in San Francisco. For a few dollars I bought obscure glass sash windows in a redwood frame. They are large windows salvaged from a chuch in San Francisco. With the studs I salvaged (with permission of course) from a local remodeling project, I am building this out of completely recycled materials--except for the brass hardware. I believe the whole project will cost $120 to finish (the hardware being a significant portion of the budget). I did see several sliding glass doors in aluminum frames for *cheap*. You could quickly frame four windows into an insulated box. Just add shelves roof and gravel. You can add the biodome-technology others posted as you see fit. (I challenge you to run it off solar power, for a stand alone off the grid system) Are they tearing any hotels down near you? You could get a whole bunch and go modular. Joseph Kinyon ################### From: "Dave Evans" Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 22:36:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Cold/Hot hardiness? Hi Rich, > I recall Dave Evans did quite well with > S. leuco in New Jersey however. Yeah, _Sarracenia leucophylla_ will grow fine, at least as far north as New Jersey. I feel that it's growing season is cut short by the cold. And that's not really the best thing for the grower, since I only get to see the fall flush of pitchers grow for a couple weeks until the frosts come. The fully formed pitchers stay around through December and on warmer days they continue to catch insects while at night they freeze. I think you could grow this species even further north without much ado. I don't mulch, but I do have to keep on pushing the rhizomes and hibernaculum of smaller plants back down into the soil because of frost heaving. Dave Evans ################### From: "Dave Evans" Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 22:38:16 -0500 Subject: Re: CP'ers in Connecticut Sounds nice, but who are you? Dave Evans ----- Original Message ----- To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 6:59 PM > I live in Connecticut. I would like to create a list of people in the > tri-state area who also raise C.P.s. This would be for the purposes of plant > and information exchange. Perhaps a mini-symposium could be arranged or a > membership trip to an interesting site or arboretum. Please contact me via > this list if you would be interested. > ################### From: "Fernando Rivadavia-Lopes" Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 11:58:28 -0200 Subject: BRAZILIAN CP WEBPAGE PLAGIARIZED!!!!!!!!!!! Dear friends, I was perplexed yesterday with a message from Marianne Perdomo Machin to the listserv where she mentions a Brazilian CP webpage which I had never heard about. Upon entering the site and later discussing it with my friend Marcelo A.K.Fontana (who did most of the work on our CP webpage), we were aghast to discover that this other site was a perfect copy of the old version of our own page (put together with the help of another CP friend Linilson Padovese), from the pictures and texts right down to the awards won!! The perpetrator appears to be a guy called Daniel Sollazzini Cortez, although he does mention a Marcelo Sollazzini Cortez as one of the "donators" of pictures, along with Marcelo (Fontana), Linilson, and I. Our main question now is WHAT DO WE DO??? And WHAT CAN WE DO??? Is it possible to somehow get this guy's plagiarized webpage OFF the web by contacting the people who run Tripod (where his page is based)? Unfortunately, the smart ass doesn't give his e-mail address on that web page so the only way we can contact him may be through Tripod. Maybe some of you out there have more experience with this kind of stuff and can give us some hints..... This Sollazzini creep says he was responsible for writing everything and putting it all together. He even has the nerve to thank Marcelo, Linilson, and I for helping him by taking all the pictures and goes as far as saying: "Todos textos, fotos, imagens e gif's pertencem por direito \340 Daniel Sollazzini Cortez, a publica\347\343o, c\363pia e divulga\347\343o deles \351 proibida e ilegal, sujeito a multa e pris\343o. Fiscaliza\347\343o constante." Which translates as: "All texts, photos, images and gif's belong by right to Daniel Sollazzini Cortez, the publication, copy and distribution of these is prohibited and illegal, being subject to fine and prison. Constant fiscalization." Anyways, the plagiarized version (it's very slow to download!) is at: http://members.tripod.com/hexenmeister/Generos.htm So for the record, neither Marcelo, Linilson or I endorse anything that's written in the above webpage, although our names our cited by this Sollazzini bastard. The new version of our official Brazilian CP webpage (with new texts and over 900 pictures) is at: http://www.mcef.ep.usp.br/carnivoras/ Only the Portuguese version is ready, but if you wish to see the pictures of plants, click on "Generos e Especies" ("Genera and Species"). There are also many habitat, flora, and fauna pictures if you click on "Habitats no Brasil" ("Habitats in Brazil"). Best Wishes and Thanks, Fernando Rivadavia Sao Paulo, Brazil P.S. A special thanks to Marianne for bringing this fake website to our knowledge! ################### From: Vitor Fernandes Oliveira de Miranda Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:54:47 -0200 (GRNLNDDT) Subject: Changing e-mail Dear friends, I\264d like to notice you that my e-mail has just changed to: vitormiranda@bol.com.br Best wishes Vitor. ------------------- Vitor Miranda Dep. Bot\342nica - IB Unesp - Universidade Estadual Paulista Rio Claro-SP, Brazil ################### From: Vitor Fernandes Oliveira de Miranda Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 13:07:13 -0200 (GRNLNDDT) Subject: e-mail changed Dear friends, I\264d like to notice you that my e-mail has just changed to: vitormiranda@bol.com.br Best wishes Vitor. ---------- Vitor Fernandes Oliveira de Miranda IB - Departamento de Bot\342nica Unesp - Universidade Estadual Paulista Rio Claro-SP, Brazil ---------- ################### From: "Diobel" Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:28:59 +0100 Subject: Thierry Hello I form part of a Belgian association of carnivorous plants and I seek some seeds to increase my small collection I seek: cephalotus, brochinia, catopsis, I thank you for your answers and your assistance a small mall will make me good for my moral because I for a very long time seek thank you Thierry [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Zachary Kaufman" Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:01:18 PST Subject: Light meter I recently came across an ad for a light meter. It supposedly can handle readings from 0-50,000 LUX and has a relative sensitivity of 10 - 100 (degree symbol above the last 0 in 100). Unfortunately these ranges have little meaning to me. I was hoping someone could answer the following questions: 1) What is the conversion between foot-candles and LUX? Is there a meaningful definition as to what 1 LUX is? 2) Is 50,000 LUX a value greater than one would experience outside in full sun? I would like a meter that won't go out of range outside. 3) What does a relative sensitivy of 10 - 100 degrees mean for a light meter? Is this any good? The light meter, from the picture, appears to have a digital LCD display and a separate ~3cm diameter white sensor element. Its seems to be very well priced, but I need to know a bit more before I decide to purchase it. Thanks to anyone that can help with my questions. --Zachary-- e-mail: zkaufman@hotmail.com ################### From: "William Longe" Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 23:51:43 -0500 Subject: William Longe/MIA/NTRS is out of the office. I will be out of the office from 01/13/2000 until 01/19/2000. I will be reading my e-mail and will respond if I can. ################### From: CMcdon0923@aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 00:09:37 EST Subject: Solar Powered Greenhouse Fixtures Over this past summer I finally got around to building a modest (8ft x 16ft) greenhouse in my yard. Among the issues I'm still working out is that of ventilation, power, water, and cooling (air temperatures can easily reach 105F higher during July and August). I do not yet have electricity in the structure, and it may be a while ($$$$) before I do. In an emergency, I could run an extension cord from the house (60+ feet), but I would prefer a more "contained" solution. Besides cooling, I need a way to keep the air moving. Right now all I have is the screen door and two smallish windows on the back wall...basically just flow-through ventilation. What I am hoping to find is some type of solar powered fan to mount from the rafters. There is certainly no shortage of ol' Sol around here, year-round. (I tried Charlie's Greenhouse Supply, and while they don't sell them they did give me a possible lead.) Anyone else have any leads.....an internet search on "solar fans" wasn't too fruitful. I would prefer a US supplier, simply for ease of doing business. Sincerely, Craig McDonald Frisco, Texas ################### From: "Joseph Kinyon" Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:45:46 -0800 Subject: RE:Tripod's copyright policy Hey folks, Content and privilege to use it is something to take seriously. I responded to Fernando and Tripod regarding Fernando's allegation of plagiarism. FYI, all web servers should have an "abuse" section. If you are interested in Tripod's policy, then go to this site: http://www.tripod.lycos.com/membership/signup/tos.html . I appreciate, and benefit from the tremendous work, sharing of ideas, and thoughtful reference to the original work that people make in this cp community. This is just one aspect of the integrity of CP information that we muddle towards in these postings. By upholding this integrity we protect our own voices and work. Thanks for reading my little rant. Joseph Kinyon P.S.: To all those who mailed me off topic, thanks for all the helpful direct mail I've received and keeping the listserve on topic. :) ################### From: "Richard Jobson" Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:17:18 +1100 Subject: light meter Zachary, A lux = 1 lumen per square meter. A footcandle = 1 lumen per square foot. Therefore 1 foot candle = 10.7 lux and is a measure of illumination. Someone with a physics background may need to correct me but a lux meter measures luminosity and is not very useful in determining available light levels in relation to plant growth. A meter that measures in Micro-Einsteins (micro mole/meter/second) is probably best because it can measure the specific radiation utilized by the plants. One model is the Li-Cor quantum meter LI- 189 - not sure on the price - it may be expensive? However, if you just want a rough idea of light levels in your growing area rather than the levels of available energy hitting your plants, a lux meter is probably sufficient. Depends on your intended application. Hope I've helped a bit, Richard. ################### From: Juerg Steiger Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:09:49 +0200 Subject: Re: Light meter Hi Zachari 1 lux is defined as the light energy received on 1 squaremeter from a light source of 1 lumen. For German speaking CPers a good survey on 'Lichttechnische Grundbegriffe' is available on http://www.osram.de/produkte/lichtplanung/lichttechnisch.htm For English speaking people search at http://www.osram.com or other manufacturers of light sources. Light meters measure only the total light energy received from a light source but not the relative spectrum distribution of the light source. Human eyes have their highest light sensititvity at a wave lenght of about 550 nanometer, while plants have 2 biologically important peaks around 440nm and again at 650 nm. Therefore for plant growth the spectral distribution of the light source is important. Pleasant light for our eyes may not automatically be suitable for plants. Graphs with the emitted spectrum of different light sources are available by their manufacturers. ATTENTION!! For industrial plant production different light sources are available with particular spectrum peaks enhancing plants growth. But industrial plant production usually deals with ANNUAL plants producing one or more plant generations per year. After the flower or fruit period the plants perish and are disposed. For many PERENNIAL species these plant-specific light sources increase leaf growth and flowering/fruiting to fast, resulting in disturbing the internal watch of the annual growth cycle which is genetically anchored. The results are to early metamorphosis into the winter stage (or from winter to summer stage) and increased microbial infestations. For perennials it is therefore recommended to use light sources with a spectrum which is as similar as possible to the spectrum of normal daylight as e.g. specific metal halide lamps (in Europe e.g. Hitlite HIT-DE dw (5200 Kelvin) made by BLV, or Power Star HQI ../D or HQI .../NDL made by Osram, or Biolux lamps made by Osram ). To measure the total amount of light at a certain place the light meter is certainly useful. If no light meter is available, the built-in light meter of many photocameras may give approximate estimations. Juerg F. Steiger M.D. Institute for Medical Education IAWF Master of Medical Education Program University of Bern, Faculty of Medicine Inselspital 37a CH-3010 Bern, Switzerland Phone: +41 (0)31 632 98 87 Fax: +41 (0)31 632 98 71 juerg.steiger@iae.unibe.ch http://www.iawf.unibe.ch/MME ################### From: "Sundew" Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 22:07:05 +1100 Subject: South American Tepuis Dear all I am wanting to obtain some information on the traversing of the Tepuis, esp. Mt Roraima. I do plan to visit South America in the future, so would like some input as to the ins and outs of the region, preferably personal experience. Regards Nathan J. Clemens Bowral NSW Australia "The hurting that we send is so difficult to mend" Peace, Eurythmics ' 99 [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: Carl Gustafson Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 08:30:12 -0500 Subject: Re: BRAZILIAN CP WEBPAGE PLAGIARIZED!!!!!!!!!!! At 8:49 PM -0800 1/13/00, cp@opus.hpl.hp.com wrote: [snip] > > Our main question now is WHAT DO WE DO??? And WHAT CAN WE DO??? >Is it possible to somehow get this guy's plagiarized webpage OFF the web by >contacting the people who run Tripod (where his page is based)? >Unfortunately, the smart ass doesn't give his e-mail address on that web >page so the only way we can contact him may be through Tripod. Maybe some of >you out there have more experience with this kind of stuff and can give us >some hints..... > [more snip] I'd start by notifying Tripod. When you prepared your page, did you include any author information in the html? If so, download the pirate page and look for any tell-tale marks. That might help with Tripod. If Tripod is unhelpful, the next question is how much time, effort, and money are you willing to spend to go after the miscreant? You need to consider that soon, as this kind of stuff often turns into an expensive battle. Another thing to do is to look into filing for US copyrights. Although in the US you have a copyright from when your creation is put into tangible form, filing with the copyright office allows you to sue for statutory damages, rather than trying to prove actual damages. And the statutory damages are substantial. While you're in Brasil, Tripod is probably in the US, and so you'd need to go after them and their customer in the US. Good luck Carl. ################### From: "RICHARD DAVION" Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 00:55:10 +1030 Subject: VISITING RIGHTs Whilst VISITING SITEs Dear All I'd take the plagiariZing of the BraZilian CP WebSite as a complement to it's quality, the integrity of those behind it and as an indictment on the morals of our modern youth. I think the situation will only become 'bizarre' if the mentioned intruder / trespasser turns round and tries to sue those behind the machinations of the site for infringement of 'His' copyrighted photos and information!? We can only hope that the 'good guys' in this scenario have had the foresight to physically copyright all 900 photos if not electronically encrypt their JPEGs. Another notch in the bedpost of the almost outdated SnailMail and GPOs in general!? R-well at least it's an advanced warning / lesson for all us slowbies and would-be WebMasters who haven't as yet 'gotton' around to uploading their uplifting & imaginative WebSites onto the World Wide Web, R but the sheer 'veracity' of the chap somehow seems to make me want to smile. *WinK* WWW ... THE NEW FRONTIER - Loose Rules & No Laws, DAVION |Bb3, B3, D4, F4, F#4, C#4, Bb3, F#3| >(*U*)<>(*U*)<>(*U*)< |C#4, D4, F4, Ab4, Bb4, F#4, Eb4, Bb3| ################### From: Michael Vanecek Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:23:11 -0600 Subject: Re: VISITING RIGHTs Whilst VISITING SITEs Wrong. Especially when the intruder claims his own rights to the plagiarized material and claims to have created the site himself and threatens legal action himself if someone ELSE copies the site, it definately is NOT a compliment, but outright THEFT. There's a big difference between mirroring and stealing. That a thief breaks in and steals my nice sterio system isn't cause to feel complimented because the thief thought my sterio system was nice. I think this should be fought tooth and nail with no quarter given... RICHARD DAVION wrote: > > Dear All > > I'd take the plagiariZing of the BraZilian CP WebSite as a > complement to it's quality, the integrity of those behind it and as > an indictment on the morals of our modern youth. -- Cheers, Mike http://dotfile.net/ mailto:info@dotfile.net <-------------------------------------------------> "My zeal to start using Linux is stronger than my fear of looking like a dummy." --Some Wise Man <-------------------------------------------------> Why does Sea World have a seafood restaurant? I'm halfway through my fishburger and I realize, Oh my God....I could be eating a slow learner. ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 08:42:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: Plagiarized web page Hey Folks, Fernando's fate with his web page is very annoying, but unfortunately not a new thing. I've had entire selections of my web presence stolen. I encourage everyone with a large web presence to include a clear statement of intellectual property. This helps some... Furthermore, if anyone finds that a person on the CP Web Ring is displaying material that has been stolen, please contact the ICPS immediately. Justice will be swift in these cases. :) Cheers Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: "Philip Semanchuk" Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 16:59:18 -0500 Subject: Re: BRAZILIAN CP WEBPAGE PLAGIARIZED!!!!!!!!!!! > Our main question now is WHAT DO WE DO??? And WHAT CAN WE DO??? >Is it possible to somehow get this guy's plagiarized webpage OFF the web by >contacting the people who run Tripod (where his page is based)? Yes -- email abuse@tripod.com Most domains have "abuse" set up as a standard email address for exactly these kinds of concerns. I'm sorry to hear you've been ripped off. On the CP front -- anyone else in the southeast US worried about their plants coming out of dormancy early as a result of the mild winter? Philip URL du jour: http://www.duke.edu/web/primate/ ################### From: "dick c tran" Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 16:46:18 -0800 Subject: sphagnum moss does anybody know where i can get long-fiber sphagnum moss? It doesn't have to be that expensive stuff from new zealand or canada. the purpose of the sphagnum is to experiment in growing beginners orchids. thanks dick tran LYCOShop is now open. On your mark, get set, SHOP!!! http://shop.lycos.com/ ################### From: JWi5770869@aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 20:24:16 EST Subject: Plagiarized web site Fernando and all, Are you sure there's no email address for the idiot that's ripped off your web site? If there is then it sounds like a few weeks of mailbombing might help (hey what are friends for!!). I'm sure that the company hosting the site will succumb to pressure when they see this guy's mailbox explode. Do you know this individual ?Is he trying to scam you or the Cp community at large(is he trying to sell plants etc).I only ask because I don't want to give him the satisfaction of a 'hit' to 'his' site to find out the info for myself. Hope it gets sorted soon. All the best John Wilden Southport Lancs. UK ################### From: Phil Sheridan Date: Wed, 16 Jan 1980 21:26:23 -0800 Subject: Re: Superthrive Hello Folks: We have a question for those of you who use Superthrive on your Sarracenia. Would you please tell us the mixture and frequency you use on your Sarracenia? Also please comment on the efficacy of this material. We are about to start our fertilization treatments at Potomac Elementary School (see the Education section at www.pitcherplant.org) on native Virginia Yellow Pitcher Plant and want to duplicate your treatment(s). Sincerely, Phil Sheridan Director Meadowview Biological Research Station ################### From: "Richard Jobson" Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 16:28:40 +1000 Subject: more light meter stuff Zachary, Just to sum up the responses to your question on which meter to purchase - the lux meter measures luminosity - radiation as your eyes see it. While a quantum sensor measures photosynthetically active radiation in the 400 to 700 waveband - that which a plant actually uses to photosynthesise. You could refer to Li-Cors home page at http://env.licor.com/products/sensors/quan.htm Your questions 2 and 3 could possibly be answered by a photographer, but my guess is that 50,000 lux is greater than the luminosity of outside on a day in full sun. And that the relative sensitivity is the angle (10-100 degrees) at which light can be registered by the sensor surface. Best bet is to ask the distributer. Cheers, Richard "the physics flop" ################### From: Steve Hinkson Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 02:05:08 -0800 Subject: sphagnum Tropiflora sells long fiber sphagnum online at a reasonable price. http://www.tropiflora.com/ -- Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing... -Helen Keller Drop by and see me at : http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/6811 ################### From: Steve Hinkson Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 02:16:26 -0800 Subject: ...superthrive... "We have a question for those of you who use Superthrive" Phil: I use a vitamin B-1 solution, only when propagating, or otherwise disturbing roots, not on a regular basis. While I don't believe B-1 has much effect on plants in soil mixes (B-1's available there already) I have found it to help in sterile, soil less mixes, such as is often employed with CP. Superthrive is an awfully expensive form, but I use it at half the recommended strength when I do buy it. ( and I sometimes do, 'cause it's convenient ) Since most solutions of B-1, or in the case of Superthrive, solutions of B-1 and minerals don't come in a dropper bottle, I use my old contact lens solution bottles... Hey! A good point to being myopic ! Steve -- Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing... -Helen Keller Drop by and see me at : http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/6811 [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Cristiano Perrucci" Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2000 07:36:49 +0100 Subject: I: Allen Lowrie's address Hi folks, I'm looking for Allen Lowrie's address and tel/ fax number if possible. Can anyone help me to find it? Thanks for your support Cristiano Perrucci -Genoa- Italy www.gsi.it/terrarium ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 09:50:57 -0500 Subject: Re: BRAZILIAN CP WEBPAGE PLAGIARIZED!!!!!!!!!!! Before any more of you share your secret tactics of how to stop this loser who's obviously ripped off Fernando and Marcelos hard work, you should realize that the moron who's going to now be in deep sh** because of this might actually be reading all of your well thought out advice. I urge you guys to email Fernando privately about possible actions he might take rather than posting them to this public forum for this lowlife to possibly see. This way, he won't know what hit him! :) Richard "Davion" F#, F, E, D#, D, C#, C: Copyright infringement is a serious offense. It's DEFINITELY not a complement - it's theft of intellectual property. Knowing both Fernando and Marcelo, I know that both have put LOTS of hard work into what you see on that absolutely fabulous website and that they have dedicated SO much time to it. For you to smile over any part of this situation is absolutely pathetic! I also find it quite ironic that, in your "DECEMBER NEWSLETTER", you claimed disappointment in what you felt was a short supply of images on the Brazilian CP website (what planet are you on?!!) and speculated that Fernando was keeping the good stuff to himself as he must be worried that someone would steal his best work. You also included the same theft=complement nonsense. What's unusual about the whole things is that I received your mass email _just before_ this whole theft issue was called to my attention. Did you hear about this incident before I did or did you possibly have something to do with all of this?! Happy growing, Matt ################### From: (Howard J. Wu L.Ac) Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 9:02:21 +0000 Subject: Re: Solar Power Fans I once meet someone would wasn't worried about nuclear winter. He said we could grow ethanol under electric lights which of course would be powered by generators using some of the ethanol we made. I had to explain the absurditiy of this propose, some theory called the conservation of energy. In regards to solar power fans, I doubt this would be a practical idea. Concider that the amount of engery needed to move enough air to be of benifit would be far greater than the amount of sunlight striking the greenhouse. Else air convention from sunlight on the greenhouse would generate enough wind to do the job without any mechanism. Add to this that good solar cells are about 11% efficient, (fans motors are around %90 at best.) I suppose one could buy a large field of solar cells, personally I'd get the cord. There are passive systems that might be of use: Phase change vents that open at a set temperture. Evaporator cooling towers. Even high tech (or low tech) shading of the greenhouse. Howard J. Wu Bishop Ca. mrwu@qnet.com ################### From: "Jure Slatner" Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 18:56:07 +0100 Subject: CP in Slovenia (new home page) Hi all ! You are all welcome to visit my home page, the first on CP from Slovenia, at http://www2.arnes.si/~sopjslat/mesojedke . I'm sorry you probably will not understand the text but photos will tell you everything. Jure Slatner ################### From: "Philip Semanchuk" Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 14:44:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Solar Powered Greenhouse Fixtures >Anyone else have any leads.....an internet search on "solar fans" wasn't too >fruitful. I would prefer a US supplier, simply for ease of doing business. Craig, If you decide to roll your own solution, Edmund Scientific sells a bunch of solar power mats & cells. You might find one there that could drive a fan that you purchase elsewhere. Good luck, Philip URL du jour: http://www.duke.edu/web/primate/ ################### From: DMFleming1@aol.com Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 15:20:54 EST Subject: hello Hi everybody my name is James Fleming I am twelve years old and come from Scotland. I have been collecting Carnivorous plants for a year now. I am wondering if there is any other young grower in this group. Hope to hear from you all soon James Fleming. ################### From: Stephen Davis Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 16:17:50 -0800 Subject: Re: Solar Power Fans Try this out. I'm not sure how it works, but it sounds right. However, it sounds too cheap. They also had an outhouse solar fan "Encapsulated rubber and plastic covering protects from corrosive fumes." Just in case you have such a problem. http://jademountain.com/fans.html Sunvent Extract 680 cu.ft. of air per hour from your RV, attic, boat, outhouse, greenhouse, or other too-hot place. Light shining on the built-in solar cell automatically starts a low-noise motor that regulates a multi-blade fan. Extremely easy to install since no wiring or plugs required. Keeps water and back drafts out. Great for a battery room - the more batteries are likely to gas, the more air draws out. 8 1/2" diameter and requires a 4 3/4" hole for mounting. Install in any wall thickness. [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: Steve Hinkson Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 22:22:01 -0800 Subject: Allen Lowrie's contact info Cristiano: All his contact information is at his web-site: http://www.jps.net/cgardner/allen/allen98.html Steve -- Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing... -Helen Keller Drop by and see me at : http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/6811 ################### From: "Andrew Marshall" Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 22:33:26 -0800 Subject: Allen Lowries address etc.. Hi folks, Allen Lowries address etc is... Allen Lowrie 6 Glenn Place Duncraig 6023 Western Australia phone 08-9447-7426 fax 08-9246-9335 Best wishes Andrew ################### From: "george anderson" Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 07:07:01 -0600 Subject: Re: solar powered fans there is a solar powered fan which is commercially available from LEHMANS, a company which prides itself in being a retro "NONELECTRIC" catalogue company (located on page 113 in the 1999 catalogue). "on a sunny day, this fan can move a lot of air (up to 1000 CFM)", says the ad. it sells for 319$ (fan +solar pannels) which seems a bit much to pay. but i guess that with time it will pay for itself and has the added advantage that the flow rate naturally adjusts to the amount of sunlight which is proportional to the heat generated inside the greenhouse (if the solar pannels are mounted accordingly). most amazing is that lehmans, the nonelectric company has a website: www.lehmans.com . to me, its a strange conundrum. ################### From: "RICHARD DAVION" Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 01:27:00 +1030 Subject: THE BEST CP FRIEND I EVER HAD!!! Dear All I'd just like take this sombre opportunity to inform the membership of the Listserve that as of Yesterday evening (Saturday the 15th. of January) Eastern Australian Time My true Mate, Friend and Confidant of five years and past-President and Editor of the well-respected publication "Flytrap News" passed away ,suddenly, at his home in Miranda, New South Wales, AUSTRALIA. I'm very shocked and cut up about this news, and am, still, somewhat in disbelief!!! What hurts me most is that I shall (now) never get to meet (I don't even have a photograph!) the chap I have had so many 3 hour phonecalls with over the years and take this turn of events as a somewhat rude entry into the New Millennium. I shall always remember him telling me of the time when he took out his PC Motherboard, placed it on a photocopier and made a photocopy of it before sending it off to be mended! Suffice to say that when his Computer was returned with a different Motherboard he was able to retrieve the original one via the proper channels! That WAS Dennis, that was the kind of Man he was and that is how and why I shall always remember him. Others will be hard pressed to better him. No editor will be able to match him and no President will be able to fill his shoes. He was Dennis ... a UNIQUE human being. Others may come that will resemble him but none like him will ever walk the face of this Earth again! May His Soul Rest in Peace, Richard ################### From: "Philip Semanchuk" Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 11:55:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Solar Power Fans A google search on "solar fans" ( http://www.google.com/search?q=solar+fans ) turns up 17,500 hits. Some of these may help. : ) Philip URL du jour: http://www.duke.edu/web/primate/ ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 20:28:40 -0500 Subject: Drosera collinsiae Faryland I've got D. collinsiae Faryland and have noticed that it only grows well for me for part of the year, even though I'm growing my plants under lights. At other times, it just sits there and does nothing. Has anyone else experienced this? Matt [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 20:30:21 -0500 Subject: Drosera chrysolepis, stemless chrysolepis, other Brazilian Drosera I've got both of these and would like to swap cultivation tips with anyone else growing them now or who's had them in the past. Also interested in swapping tips on other Brazilian Drosera as well. Matt [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Fernando Rivadavia-Lopes" Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 23:36:26 -0200 Subject: Plagiarization of Brazilian CP Homepage Dear friends, As you may already know, the Brazilian CP Webpage put together by myself and friends Marcelo A.K.Fontana and Linilson R.Padovese has been PLAGIARIZED by a Daniel Sollazzini Cortez. We would like to ask for your support to get this fake page off the web by mailing the message below as a sign of REPUDIATION of PLAGIARISM to the following addresses: hexen@nvc.com.br (perpetrator, Daniel Sollazzini Cortez himself) abuse@tripod.com (Tripod, where his plagiarized homepage is based) abuse@nvc.com.br (NVC, his internet provider) info@cade.com.br (Cade, Brazilian search program where his site is listed) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear sirs, The Brazilian Carnivorous Plant Home Page has been running since December 1997 and is the result of the joint efforts of thirteen people, spreading the word on these magnificent plants. Recently, new texts have been included, as well as hundreds of new pictures -- bringing the total up to 969 pictures. It WAS, until recently, the only carnivorous plant home page on the web written in the Portuguese language, giving out all sorts of information such as cultivation, taxonomy, ecology, and distribution. Unfortunately the above mentioned website has been PLAGIARIZED by a DANIEL SOLLAZZINI CORTEZ (hexen@nvc.com.br), who has CRIMINALLY copied all our texts, images and photos to a site of his own (at http://members.tripod.com/hexenmeister/Generos.htm) and is calling himself the OWNER of all copyrights!! So through this message we ask Tripod to please REMOVE this plagiarized website, NVC to CANCEL Daniel's account, and Cade to ERASE this plagiarized site from their lists. In the meanwhile, we are taking legal action against the perpetrator Daniel Sollazzini Cortez. Cordially thanking you all in advance, Fernando Rivadavia Lopes (fe_riva@uol.com.br) Linilson Rodrigues Padovese (lrpadove@usp.br) Marcelo Andre' Karklin Fontana (makf@uninet.com.br)" ################### From: "Fernando Rivadavia-Lopes" Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 12:35:22 -0200 Subject: Plagiarization of Brazilian CP Homepage: part 2 Dear friends, Thanks to another Brazilian CPer (obrigado Luiz!), we now have the info that the plagiarizer's e-mail is probably not hexen@nvc.com.br. Daniel Sollazzini Cortez's real e-mail addresses are apparently: kaiser@nvcnet.com.br and cortez@nvcnet.com.br So for those of you who want to help us get rid of this plagiarized webpage, please send the following message below (now modified) to the following addresses: hexen@nvc.com.br , kaiser@nvcnet.com.br , and cortez@nvcnet.com.br (perpetrator, Daniel Sollazzini Cortez himself) abuse@tripod.com (Tripod, where his plagiarized homepage is based) abuse@nvc.com.br (NVC, his internet provider) info@cade.com.br (Cade, Brazilian search program where his site is listed) Thanks, we're counting on your help! Fernando Rivadavia Sao Paulo, Brazil -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear sirs, The Brazilian Carnivorous Plant Home Page has been running since December 1997 and is the result of the joint efforts of thirteen people, spreading the word on these magnificent plants. Recently, new texts have been included, as well as hundreds of new pictures -- bringing the total up to 969 pictures. It WAS, until recently, the only carnivorous plant home page on the web written in the Portuguese language, giving out all sorts of information such as cultivation, taxonomy, ecology, and distribution. Unfortunately the above mentioned website has been PLAGIARIZED by a DANIEL SOLLAZZINI CORTEZ (hexen@nvc.com.br , kaiser@nvcnet.com.br , and cortez@nvcnet.com.br), who has CRIMINALLY copied all our texts, images and photos to a site of his own (at http://members.tripod.com/hexenmeister/Generos.htm) and is calling himself the OWNER of all copyrights!! So through this message we ask Tripod to please REMOVE this plagiarized website, NVC to CANCEL Daniel's account, and Cade to ERASE this plagiarized site from their lists. In the meanwhile, we are taking legal action against the perpetrator Daniel Sollazzini Cortez. Cordially thanking you all in advance, Fernando Rivadavia Lopes (fe_riva@uol.com.br) Linilson Rodrigues Padovese (lrpadove@usp.br) Marcelo Andre' Karklin Fontana (makf@uninet.com.br)" ################### From: Steven Venter Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 18:01:49 +0200 Subject: Do I owe you seeds? Hi Listmembers and friends I owe a few of you seeds, but can't remember who! Please let me know if I owe you some, as I have obtained some interesting wild-collected seed. Steven Venter Zululand, South Africa http://goafrica.about.com ################### From: "John Green" Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:37:48 -0700 Subject: Re: Dormancy (was PLAGIARIZED) Philip Semanchuk wrote: > On the CP front -- anyone else in the southeast US > worried about their plants coming out of dormancy > early as a result of the mild winter? I'm a little worried about this, too. Winter here in Salt Lake City has been very mild lately, with highs into the 60s which has broken records. The golf courses are full and the ski resorts aren't. I have my plants in the basement under lights in a little area that extends under the back porch. It stays much cooler than the rest of the house, but when the outside temps go up, it warms up too. I imagine cold temps will return by the end of the month, but one of the S. oreos has started to grow. I've been trying to used cold water on them, but does anyone else have any good ideas to keep them dormant? On a related note, I mentioned back on October that I'd left the plants outside on a freezing night, and the D. capensis got froze pretty bad. The wide-leaf is all dead up the stem (about 3") but is sprouting a new plant near the base. The narrow-leaf didn't get it as bad, and the top is growing again and has three growing points now. It looks pretty weird. The pygmies all survived and have started growing nicely. The D. aliciae is still alive, but hasn't started into active growth. And one D. binata started to grow next to the old stem, but hasn't done anything since then. Next fall I'll try to be more careful. John Green Salt Lake City, Utah PS. I still have some pygmie gemmae for sale if anyone else is interested. E-mail me for details (hpjgreen@ihc.com). ################### From: "Butler, Joe" <6butler@jmls.edu> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 12:16:07 -0600 Subject: RE: Plagiarization of Brazilian CP Homepage: part 2 I just took a look at the two websites. Although I don't read Portuguese, it's an obvious knock-off. Most interestingly, Cortez claims he GREW the plants pictured in his website, unless "cultivada" means "stolen by". By the way, it appears that Cortez was a sixteen year old kid in November of 1998 when the site was created. http://members.tripod.com/hexenmeister/ If it's true that he's a sixteen (now 17 or 18) year old kid, it may be that the adage "imitation is the highest form of flattery" would be applicable in this case. Joe Butler ################### From: Allan Rossheim Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 14:32:45 -0800 Subject: Tissue culture What would be a good "home-made" growing media (need the ingredients) for tissue-culturing CP's such as: Venus flytrap, Cobra plant, and the Pitcher plant's? Thanks in advance, Allan ################### From: Drury Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:14:30 -0600 Subject: Nepenthes potting questions. I have bought a nice big 10 inch pot for my Nepenthes X wrigleyana. It was a stem cutting, so its stalk ends with an ugly, crooked, old piece of stem. I would like to bury this under the soil level when I repot it. I know if you do this to some plants, it will kill them. So, I'm asking: Can I repot it with the old crown 4 inches below the soil level? Don __________________________________ come visit my new terrarium/carnivorous plant website at http://www.chouteautel.com/~drury-ct/ ################### From: Zbplay@aol.com Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 21:55:36 EST Subject: Hello, and need help. Hello, I am David McInnis I am 16 and I live in the Pacific Northwest of the United States. Last spring I bought a Venus fly trap for a school science project. After the project was over it got attacked by spider mites over the summer. I put a little too much Orthene on it and OOPS, good by plant. So, this fall I bought 2 Sarracenia\342\200\231s from the CP Jungle. One Flava coppertop and one purperia ssp. Purperia. They also sent a free flava red tube. They went dormant this fall, and here I am. By the way, on my purple pitcher plant I recently noticed a small (About the size of my pinky finger) blackish, slimy spot in the wall of one of the pitchers. It is not on the surface but has affected the entire thickness of the wall. The spot is considerably softer and more flexible than the rest of the pitcher wall and is slick to the touch. It is only affecting one of the older pitchers. My best guess is that it is rot. My plant is dormant and is currently spending the winter inside my garage and I am keeping the soil slightly damp. Does anybody know what is happening to my plant and how to help it? Sincerely, David McInnis ################### From: JScott9653@aol.com Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 22:10:58 EST Subject: sphagnum moss source You can get sphagnum moss at www.mosserlee.com I have purchased both live and dried moss from them. ################### From: Sunpitcher@aol.com Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 00:15:30 EST Subject: Re: Nepenthes repotting question Hi Don. I always bury the stem of my Nepenthes when repotting finding it unattractive to have a long, bare leaved stem with a flush of leaves on top. I haven't killed anyone...yet...Good growing. Angie Nichols, SC. ################### From: Steve Hinkson Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 23:39:55 -0800 Subject: bitch, bitch bitch Enough, already ! Drop by and see me at : http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/6811 ################### From: "Fernando Rivadavia-Lopes" Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:44:41 -0200 Subject: RE: Plagiarization of Brazilian CP Homepage To all, > I just took a look at the two websites. Although I don't read Portuguese, it's an obvious knock-off. See, even for non-Portuguese speakers it's obvious! Yet we've had no reply from Tripod yet. A friend has suggested I mail to copyright@tripod.com , which I just did. Let's hope this ellicits some response from them. If anyone wants to helps us, please send a copy of that previous mail I sent to the listser and put 'Notice of Infringement' in the subject area. >Most interestingly, Cortez claims he GREW the plants pictured in his website, unless "cultivada" means "stolen by". Nope, it's "cultivated" alright! >If it's true that he's a sixteen (now 17 or 18) year old kid, it may be that the adage "imitation is the highest form of flattery" would be applicable in this case. Don't see how. And can't say I feel at all flattered to have my material used and abused in such a way. Furious would describe it best. Thanks to all for the support, Fernando Rivadavia Sao Paulo, Brazil ################### From: "Steve." Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:45:06 -0000 Subject: Re: light meter stuff Hi Zachary, On a bright sunny day the illumination can be more than 100,000 lux (about 10,000 fc). 1 fc = 10.764 lux. Steve. I ################### From: "Joe Harden" Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:20:05 -0600 Subject: Lots of Things... I missed the last 4 days, and it turned out they all had some interesting information...instead of replying to each one individually, I thought I would just stuff the turkey all at once.... Zachary Kaufman: About the LUX meter, please let me know how it works out for you. I found one for sale at $175, and was actually interested in getting it for finishing a report I was writing for Grow Lights. (after that, I guess I could 'rent' it out?) Manufacturers of lights give a measurement of Lumens, and with a conversion formula for LUX to Lumens, I could easily give some more accurate information on all types of Grow Lights. Craig McDonald from Frisco, Texas Howdy there, I'm south of you, In San Antonio. I got a greenhouse up and running a few month ago myself, and can share a few tips with you. If you covered your house in plastic, single or double ply, you may have my problem -- It's getting over 90F in winter, and you NEED that fan on just so some plants won't come out of dormancy. Solar fans may sound great, but you may need it on a cloudy day anyway, when temperatures are still high but no sun is out. As little as you would use it, make sure you get a heater. Electric heaters would suffice, but you got the problem of using them in a humid enviroment. Gas heaters are more pricey, and you better ventilation, but can give you the heat you need for those 1-2 days of bad freezing we already had. To keep high humidity when using your heaters, put a 1-2" layer of mulch on the ground, and water it down well in the morning and night. For really chilly nights, just keep the doors and windows closed during the day and the heat will build up if the sun is out, keeping it pretty warm through the night. Since you are in Texas, you may want some shadecloth for the greenhouse. Even though some plants like full sun, I found over the past two years Texas sun is more intense, and the plants grew better under shadecloth (just as colorful, but less stressed). It doesn't have to be the heavy duty type, just enough to cast a light shade for the plants. If you haven't done so yet, get an electric temperature and humidity meter with Min/Max readings, so you know how you are doing on cold nights and hot days -- it eliminates some guess work when things go wrong. Philip Semanchuk and anyone else worried about the light winters: I'm just as nervous as you about my plants. I did have some plants in my fridge in the garage, but my wife won't let me put everything in there, so I placed many plants outside in the shade (where its over 80F) or under my greenhouse tables...still, some are showing signs of life. The only thing keeping them under control is the low night-time temperatures. My VFT's are starting to come out, and my Sarracenia is already putting out leaves. Droseras are blooming...(sigh). On the good side, business is great at my real job at Mortellaro's Nursery (www.mortellaro.com ) and we are already selling our summer plants now in Janurary...bad news is we would sell out of many things before the summer starts...but good news is we may be in another drought and nobody wants to landscape..... And last, that's a real bite in the ear about the Brazilian website being ripped off. This is common on the web for all types of site, but now it hit close to home for a few people. You can fight tooth and nail to get him off Tripod, but there are many more places he could go to. I'm not saying give up the fight, but just be prepared to fight a long battle. And there are several ISP's I bet he could turn to if one turned him down. The best thing you could do it keep posting in many CP-related places that he is a knock off and a liar, and keep him off web-rings and other users' link pages. Once he sees he can't really get anywhere with his page, it may just disappear into the land of unvisited web-sites. I think I talked enough, so I'll get out of here and back to work. Joe Harden www.carnivorous-kingdom.com ################### From: "Gilles LARDY" Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 00:25:50 +0800 Subject: N. mirabilis vs. Mickey Mouse Hi everybody, here is some piece of news from Hongkong and more precisely Lantau Island where I live, where you may know Disney has planned to build its next Disneyland park. This is an excerpt from the South-China Morning post dated 17th Jan available online in full version at http://www.scmp.com/News/HongKong/Article/FullText_asp_ArticleID-20000117012 400414.asp >####Endangered plants found at Disney site### > Groups of an endangered carnivorous plant may be moved to avoid being wiped out by >Disneyland and related projects. >Nepenthes, or pitcher plants, were yesterday examined at Penny's Bay, Lantau by Friends >of the Earth. > >The plants were discovered on a hillside behind a shipyard which will be scrapped to make >way for a water recreation centre, roads and railways adjacent to Disneyland. > >Pitcher plants, listed as endangered and protected worldwide, have been moved once >before - for the construction of Chek Lap Kok. > >Found in tropical and subtropical regions, they supplement their nutrition by catching and >consuming insects or even frogs in bigger species. > >The plant is shaped like a lidded pitcher. Nectar is secreted on the lips of the pitcher to >attract insects, which slide down the slippery surface and are drowned and digested in the >fluid at the bottom of the plant. Only one species has been found in Hong Kong - >Nepenthes mirabilis, which are mostly knee-high and eat insects such as ants and flies. >Officials conducting environmental impact assessments on the Disney and Northshore >Lantau development projects will be required to study ways to protect or relocate any >endangered plants found within the site. > >Assistant Director of Friends of the Earth, Plato Yip Kwong-to, said: "Any relocation >work to be done will have to cover the entire habitat of the plant. The Disney joint venture >company should pay for the relocation cost." > >He also urged the Government to renew its investigation into the plant's distribution in Hong >Kong. > >The Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department said a study on pitcher plants a >few years ago found them distributed widely on Lantau and in Tai Lam and Castle Peak in >the northwest New Territories. > >The department's senior endangered species protection officer, Lay Chik-chuen, said some >pitcher plants threatened by the airport had been moved to other parts of north Lantau. > >Despite rapid urbanisation, Mr Lay believed the plants were in no danger of extinction in >Hong Kong. It is a shame the HK authorities do not show the same zeal in protecting the habitats of other less mediatic although much rarer species such as D. indica and D. oblanceolata, and stop illegal collection an open reselling of the local orchid species.... Gilles in HK www.byblis.com ################### From: "Steve Klitzing" Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:56:42 PST Subject: CP's and orchids in Australia Hi all: I just got back from a 6-week vacation to Australia, New Zealand, and Fiji. I'd just like to say I enjoyed to botanical gardens in Cairns, Queensland. I met the guy who takes care of the CP collection there, though I can't recall his name. He had a great collection of Nepenthes hanging in baskets in an outdoor semi-shaded lathe area. If you ever go to Cairns, the botanical garden is a fun place to visit and also free. Didn't get a chance to visit Western Australia and Allen Lowrie's, but hope to do so on my next trip. In Queensland, I visited several commercial orchid farms...all small places and Mom and Pop type operations. I found out there used to be 20 orchid growers in Queensland, but it is now reduced to 3. It seems that Australia requires the gassing of all orchids coming into and going out of Queensland...and I suppose that may also apply to CPs. So, most of the growers went out of business because gassing is expensive, especially for small orders. That, and most people living locally aren't into the growing of rare plants, just low maintenance plants. And they don't have time for orchids or CPs. One nice thing I did notice. In the national parks and preserves, there were a good number of huge staghorn ferns, of many different varieties, all growing on trees in the tropics. It was nice to see how they really grow in nature, rather than seeing them on a slab of cork or a board. Again, because starghorns are considered endangered, along with their forests, the Australians don't allow them to be shipped out of the country. ---Steve Klitzing ################### From: S.Ippenberger@t-online.de (Ippenberger) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:03:45 +0100 Subject: DroseraXanglica Hi all, beeing really impressed by the D. anglica vs. D.X anglica article in the last CP Newsletter (very good work) I am looking for winterbuds of the real Drosera X anglica (sterile hybrid). If anybody is out there willing to trade this hybrid I am sure we can work out a deal. I can offer European CP (winterbuds or seeds), Genlisea, U. humboldtii and some more. Please email me privately. Stefan ################### From: Brewer Charles E PHDN Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:56:22 -0500 Subject: RE: Regarding Superthrive Phil and others, I have used Superthrive for many years now with excellent results on transplanting VFTs, Cephs, Sarrs and house plants. I use ten drops of superthrive per gallon of water and soak the cutting for approx. one hour, then soak the cutting in a fungicide for 5 minutes before planting. I have tried using superthrive as a foliage spray with mix results. I do find that a weak solution of fertilizer sprayed on these plants, during growing season or using the pour through method, works better for me and gives me better results. Hope this helps. Charles Brewer Va. Beach, Va. ################### From: Steve Clancy Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:25:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Trails in the condensation on my terraria walls Matt, I get those trails as well. I used to think they were tiny worms, but now I'm of the (untested) opinion that they are the trails left by tiny droplets as they grow and move down and about the glass surface. Anyone else? --steve Steve Clancy MLS, Science Library, Univ. of California, Irvine P.O. Box 19556, Irvine, CA 92623-9556 U.S.A. 949-824-7309 * http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~sclancy * sclancy@uci.edu *---------------------------------------------------------------------* "For mad scientists who keep brains in jars, here's a tip: why not add a slice of lemon to each jar, for freshness?" *---------------------------------------------------------------------* On Thu, 16 Dec 1999, Sundew Sundew wrote: > I've noticed trails in the condensation formed on the inside of the > glass terraria. At the end of each trail (which almost seems > random) is always something which, without closer inspection, looks > like a little white bubble of liquid or some slimy creature (almost > amoeba like!). Any ideas what they could be and could they harm CP? > Whatever it is is either coming from my water or my soil (or seed!). > I thought it could have been liquid but wouldnt expect liquid to > move in such a pattern... > > Thanks, > > Matt > > [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] > ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:00:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Trails in the condensation on my terraria walls Steve, Wow, what a blast from the past! I asked that ? a while ago. Anyway, I think its some living thing as I have not seen them in some of my terraria where there's a significant amt of condensation. They also move in all directions... Any other ideas? Matt ----- Original Message ----- To: Sundew Sundew Cc: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 6:25 PM > Matt, I get those trails as well. I used to think they were tiny worms, > but now I'm of the (untested) opinion that they are the trails left by > tiny droplets as they grow and move down and about the glass surface. > > Anyone else? > > --steve > > Steve Clancy MLS, Science Library, Univ. of California, Irvine > P.O. Box 19556, Irvine, CA 92623-9556 U.S.A. > 949-824-7309 * http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~sclancy * sclancy@uci.edu > *---------------------------------------------------------------------* > "For mad scientists who keep brains in jars, here's a tip: why not > add a slice of lemon to each jar, for freshness?" > *---------------------------------------------------------------------* > > > On Thu, 16 Dec 1999, Sundew Sundew wrote: > > > I've noticed trails in the condensation formed on the inside of the > > glass terraria. At the end of each trail (which almost seems > > random) is always something which, without closer inspection, looks > > like a little white bubble of liquid or some slimy creature (almost > > amoeba like!). Any ideas what they could be and could they harm CP? > > Whatever it is is either coming from my water or my soil (or seed!). > > I thought it could have been liquid but wouldnt expect liquid to > > move in such a pattern... > > > > Thanks, > > > > Matt > > > > [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] > > > > > ################### From: Sunpitcher@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 01:20:01 EST Subject: trails on terria walls Hi Matt and Steve. I have those trails too and sometimes can see a little white squiqqly worm like thing at the end of it. I think they are nocturnal and you will have to turn off the lights to get them to come out and go back later and "suprise" them. I believe that they are feeding on the algae and slime that grows on the side of the tanks and are therefore harmless. Any other opinions? Angie Nichols, SC ################### From: Laurent Ide Date: Wed, 19 Jan 00 10:30:01 +0100 Subject: My 2 cents over plagiarization Daniel Solazzini Cortez sucks. ################### From: Dionaea@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:46:36 EST Subject: Re: Trails in the condensation on my terraria walls Matt, Steve, I get those trails as well, and came to the same conclusion. Christoph > Matt, I get those trails as well. I used to think they were tiny worms, > but now I'm of the (untested) opinion that they are the trails left by > tiny droplets as they grow and move down and about the glass surface. > > Anyone else? > ################### From: Philcula@webtv.net (Phil Faulisi) Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 06:00:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: re: bitch, bitch, bitch I agree! When I signed up on this listserv it was because a dear friend of mine practically begged me to. He said he was a member of this great cp info exchange forum that had great articles on the hobby. He sent me a few of the past articles last year and it thoroughly peaked my interest. From what I can tell now, he must have sent me articles that were posted during a time when everyone treated the listserv with the respect it deserved. What a pleasure it was to read letters from true cp icons. People that I have read about through the ICPS for the last 15 or so years. Now you've scared them all off with all this battleground bull----. I've been growing cp's for almost 30 years now and at 38 years old I am still growing (hundreds of plants), still learning and still yearning for new information on the subject this listserv was created for. A place designed for sharing everyone's knowledge and field trips and passion for growing cp's. All that has seemed to change so rapidly now. Now when I get my e-mail I cringe when I see I got one from the cp listserv. I know what to expect. I can expect at any given time to see arguments and back stabbing and thievery and just plain old court room stuff that's better left to Judge Judy! Sure you can all tell me to just scroll past all the messages I don't want to read and I do. But why should I have to? Why should I receive 8 or 10 messages and 7 of the 10 are continuations of the same fight, every single day. I don't WANT to have to unsubscribe. I want to come home from work and read great articles of culture and news of new species and growing techniques from Peter and Barry and Jan, etc. OK, so somebody broke the law and stole another hard working cp enthusiasts web page. Let's do what we have to. But please, let's not forget about the material that's the main reason most of us are here. Speaking of which, I am opening my home and greenhouses for refreshments and tours during the convention. I would love to meet some of you, many of which have already made plans to visit me. Let me show you why I love cp's so much. I am more than happy to meet you here for a really good time. You can contact me privately and I will give you directions and information on finding me. I am really looking forward to this. I am ecstatic about meeting people and sharing the passion for these wonderful plants. And it doesn't matter to me if it's in person or via an e-mail listserv! hint, hint. Happy and healthy growing to you all. And yes, justice WILL prevail :-) My appologies to you Fernando for your loss. Phil ################### From: "Fernando Rivadavia-Lopes" Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:06:33 -0200 Subject: Plagiarism Dear friends, Thanks again to all of you who've helped support our efforts in this plagiarism war against Daniel Sollazzini Cortez. Apparently there's not much else to do but wait for Tripod to make up it's mind, which will hopefully be soon. As for NVCNET (his internet provider), we've already exchanged several e-mails with them and there's nothing else to be said. So if any of you still intend to help us by mailing a complaint to those addresses I'd listed previously, please remove the NVC abuse address (abuse@nvc.com.br) from the list. Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia Sao Paulo, Brazil ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:20:54 -0500 Subject: re: Brazilian CP site Ripoff hi fernando, marcelo, and list, Domain Name: TRIPOD.COM Administrative Contact: Tripod Domain Administrators (TD154-ORG) domadmin@TRIPOD.COM 413-458-2265 I just phoned Tripod and spoke with someone named Neil who told me the proper email address to send complaints of copyright infringement to is copyright@tripod.com. He also said to include your URL as well as the URL of the individual who copied its contents. He says that they will get to your email within a week and that they will notify the member and give him the opportunity to kill the files in question. If he does not do so, they will terminate his account. It is important that you NOT encourage others to complain as well as this will only slow down their response time! :) Hope this helps. Matt [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "dick c tran" Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:33:23 -0800 Subject: leaf mold hello all, Just wondering if "leaf mold" is the same stuff as regular compost made completely from leaves. Is humus the same stuff? Does anybody have any idea how i can make it? I know Mosser Lee has them, just don't want to go through the hassel of buying it if i can make my own. I do have some ideas, just wants second opinions. Purpose: planning to add it to ceph potting mix to experiment with this year. thanks dick LYCOShop. Thousands of products! One location! http://shop.lycos.com/ ################### From: "It's me again!!! (T. Kowalski)" Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:54:06 +0100 Subject: Where can I buy seeds of Dischidia rafflesiana or pectenoides. Dear all, I have just cleaned my harddrive and I lost all my contacts. I know there is one guy from the Czech Republic who sells those seeds. If you know him or have any address where I can buy it please let me know. I have already searched cyberseeds.com and nothing. Thank you in advance. kowal kowal@starogard.com Ps. To all CPpeople from my ICQ list please send me any message so we will be in touch again. For the new my uin 2452546 it would be great to have CP growers on my ICQ. [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 16:01:11 -0500 Subject: good to be back/Drosera question That great big government report that only 10 people will read will go out next week so I can rejoin the land of the living. I recently received a bunch of pygmy Drosera and would like some cultural advice on media. I read with tremendous interest, Kris Kopicki's article on cultivation of pygmy Drosera in Bulletin of the Australian Carnivorous Plant Society. Kris gives some wonderful, first hand advice on choosing media for certain species. For instance, I was surprised to learn that a good number of species do better in pure sand. Kris also suggests a substitute for those species that like laterite. His substitute is red loam sand mix. The third media Kris suggests is a peat sand mix. For each of these mixes, Kris lists the species that he knows does best for him in those mixes. One of Kris's points is that while pygmy will grow in a variety of mixes, they grow better in certain ones. Here's my question. I have several species that weren't listed by Kris and would like suggestions from people as to the soil type they are found in or the media people would suggest for growing them. Here's the list: oreopodin sargentii species Lake Badgerup carbarup mannii pynoblasta microscapa Also, does anyone know of a source of laterite in the United States? I'm glad to be back. Thanks for your help, David Atlanta ################### From: Douglas.W.Darnowski@washcoll.edu (Douglas W. Darnowski) Date: 19 Jan 2000 16:53:29 EST Subject: Darlingtonia screenprint There is a picture of a screenpint of Darlingtonia in fruit and flower on the cover of the latest (Winter/January 2000) issue of The Botanical Artist, the newsletter of the American Society of Botanical Artists. They used to have a web site on the Carnegie Mellon Universityu server. Doug Darnowski ################### From: "Fernando Rivadavia-Lopes" Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:32:57 -0200 Subject: Re: Brazilian CP site Ripoff Hi guys, >I just phoned Tripod and spoke with someone named Neil who told me the proper email address to send complaints of copyright infringement to is copyright@tripod.com. He also said to include your URL as well as the URL of the individual who copied its contents. He says that they will get to your email within a week and that they will notify the member and give him the opportunity to kill the files in question. If he does not do so, they will terminate his account. It is important that you NOT encourage others to complain as well as this will only slow down their response time! :) Thanks tons for the help Matt! I wonder if he really means it when he says that it'll only slow them down, or if he's just bluffing to keep us off their backs. Oh well, since there is a possibility that our complaints could backfire on us and since the guys at Tripod have promised to erase the page in a few days if the creep Daniel doesn't do so, I guess there's no use mailing them anymore. We'll just have to be patient now and see what happens. And when this page does disappear from the web, there won't be any reason left to mail Cade and EscolaNet either, since there won't be any page to link to on the other side (hopefully!). Anyways, thanks to all who helped out and supported us throughout this extremely unpleasant occurrence!!!!!!!!! Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia Sao Paulo, Brazil ################### From: jneps Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 18:56:43 -0700 Subject: Re: bitch, bitch, bitch Hi Phil, I agree with your assessment of the situation. However, I hope that you will not unsub from the list. People like you are needed. It is unfortunate that the list has degraded somewhat, but with the proliferation of the web, I think it was bound to happen. Hope to see you in CA in the spring! Regards, Jeff Shafer Phil Faulisi wrote: > > I agree! When I signed up on this listserv it was because a dear friend > of mine practically begged me to. He said he was a member of this great > cp info exchange forum that had great articles on the hobby. He sent me > a few of the past articles last year and it thoroughly peaked my > interest. From what I can tell now, he must have sent me articles that > were posted during a time when everyone treated the listserv with the > respect it deserved. What a pleasure it was to read letters from true cp > icons. People that I have read about through the ICPS for the last 15 > or so years. > > Now you've scared them all off with all this battleground bull----. I've > been growing cp's for almost 30 years now and at 38 years old I am still > growing (hundreds of plants), still learning and still yearning for new > information on the subject this listserv was created for. A place > designed for sharing everyone's knowledge and field trips and passion > for growing cp's. All that has seemed to change so rapidly now. Now when > I get my e-mail I cringe when I see I got one from the cp listserv. I > know what to expect. > I can expect at any given time to see arguments and back stabbing and > thievery and just plain old court room stuff that's better left to Judge > Judy! Sure you can all tell me to just scroll past all the messages I > don't want to read and I do. But why should I have to? Why should I > receive 8 or 10 messages and 7 of the 10 are continuations of the same > fight, every single day. I don't WANT to have to unsubscribe. I want to > come home from work and read great articles of culture and news of new > species and growing techniques from Peter and Barry and Jan, etc. > OK, so somebody broke the law and stole another hard working cp > enthusiasts web page. Let's do what we have to. But please, let's not > forget about the material that's the main reason most of us are here. > > Speaking of which, I am opening my home and greenhouses for refreshments > and tours during the convention. I would love to meet some of you, many > of which have already made plans to visit me. Let me show you why I love > cp's so much. I am more than happy to meet you here for a really good > time. You can contact me privately and I will give you directions and > information on finding me. I am really looking forward to this. I am > ecstatic about meeting people and sharing the passion for these > wonderful plants. And it doesn't matter to me if it's in person or via > an e-mail listserv! hint, hint. > Happy and healthy growing to you all. And yes, > justice WILL prevail :-) My appologies to you Fernando for your loss. > Phil > ################### From: "Gilles LARDY" Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 09:32:13 +0800 Subject: Homepage updated Hi, I've updated my homepage with some pictures of N. clipeata which has given its first adult sized pitcher after 3 and a half years cultivation (originally bought in-vitro from A. Wistuba) and various Genlisea sp. Gilles in HK www.byblis.com ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 21:29:54 -0500 Subject: My Drosera petiolarises online! :) Hey folks, Just posted a no-frills web page featuring a photo of part of my D.petiolaris complex collection (all plants in photo less than 1 year old). Please check it out! HEere's the URL: http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/9219/petiolaris1.html Or, you can link from my main page (complete with growlist and more): http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/9219/index.html Thanks! Matt [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:00:24 -0500 Subject: Another Tropical Drosera Terrarium Photo I'm on a roll tonight. Here's another lousy shot of part of my CP collection. Nothing too impressive but at least I'm trying to make myself useful in some way :) http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/9219/derbytank.html Check it out! Matt [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Fernando Rivadavia-Lopes" Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 02:17:50 -0200 Subject: Neblina II -- the Japanese Expedition To all, A newsflash from the rainforests of Brazil..... For those of you who may not remember, last year I climbed Mt.Neblina, the highest mountain in Brazil (and one of the most isolated places on Earth) in hopes of finding the exotic living fossil called Drosera meristocaulis. This was very important for the work I was doing with this genus and because of this, my ex-supervisor from Japan, Hasebe-san, decided to go there himself and take another look for it, due to the importance of this species. Coincidentally, my friend Shibata-san wanted to go there too. She has been all over the Venezuelan tepuis, but had never gotten around to climbing Neblina since it is so far away and isolated. Now that she knew that it was possible to climb it from the Brazilian side, she decided to go for it. So she joined forces with my Hasebe-san and 5 other Japanese, arriving in Brazil in late December '99. In fact they almost didn't arrive because they'd been planning to land in Caracas and drive down to Manaus by car, just to have a quick look around the Gran Sabana. But because of the recent tragic floods in Venezuela, the airport was apparently closed. So they had to make last minute changes and flew into Manaus through S.Paulo. They spent Xmas in the small town of Sao Gabriel da Cachoeira, on the Brazil/ Venezuela/ Colombia border, making arrangements and getting the permits. They then spent a total of 14 days out in the jungle, before arriving back in S.Gabriel. I haven't heard from Shibata-san yet, she's probably still recovering from the trip. But last week I met with Hasebe-san on his way back from Neblina. He had a full day here in S.Paulo before catching his flight back to Japan. We had a great time discussing plants in general, and especially Drosera, as I drove him all around town. He told me all about their Neblina expedition. Guess what? They couldn't find D.meristocaulis AGAIN!!! Well, to tell the truth, I had little hope they would -- considering they went to the same place we did last year. And the friends who were with me know how desperately I searched for it, right Gert? Even after climbing the damnest difficult trail to teh top of Neblina on the last day, Gert and I returned to the are where H.tatei var.neblinae grew and stayed there until sunset searching for that damned plant -- arriving back in camp at 9pm if I remember well, walking for an hour and a half in complete dark with only one flashlight! I'll never forget how physically and mentally wasted I felt -- not to mention pissed at having missed my last chance to find D.meristocaulis on that trip! Anyways, thanks to my tips -- as well as all the heavy money they decided to waste! -- the Japanese expedition was a walk in the park compared to ours! The worst thing about our trip were all the fights with the guides and porters about weight. We were 8 tourists, plus 2 guides and 3 porters, but it was just too much weight to go around. We had a hell of a time hiking up and down that mountain because of all the weight we each had on our backs and we hardly enjoyed the trail at all. Well try to guess how many porters the Japanese took? 5, 10, 15?? No, they took **20** porters!!!! That's right, TWENTY! Oh, plus two guides too!! One of the guides was Deco (the quiet one we took) and the other was somebody else we didn't meet but who -- believe it or not -- actually spoke English! And GOOD English too, according to Hasebe-san! How they ever managed to find an English-speaking guide in that hell-hole called S.GRabiel I'll never know! As for the porters, they did not take Ianomamis Indians like we did (tiny men, but incredibly strong and resistent -- and also very cheap!). They took instead garimpeiros (illegal miners, which is the only thing that attracts people to these remote regions) from Sao Gabriel, who charged them about US$30 per day each!!! Calculate how much that is times 20 guys times 14 days!! Apparently they forgot about what I had written, that the guides in S.Gabriel would be reluctant to take Ianomamis (not sure why) and would try to force garimpeiros on them. The Japanese had considered going to Neblina by helicopter, but it just came out too expensive. The helis have to come all the way from Caracas or Manaus -- a LOOOONG way from there. Anyways, it was relatively very dry this year in that region. The large Podostemacea we saw on the rocks along the Rio Negro by S.Gabriel were all dead or in seed, no flowers or green leaves left. The boat ride to the base of Neblina (and back) took about half a day longer than it did for us. They went in two large boats apparently and had to get out several times so the boats could be manually dragged past rocky places in the river. We didn't have to do this a single time, neither on the way there, nor back, since it rained just before we left and right before we returned. It was still muddy at the top of Neblina, but believe it or not, practically no Helis were in flower! They only found about 3 scapes and apparently got no seeds! We saw LOTS of Helis in flower and got plenty of seeds of both species, H.tatei var.neblinae and the smaller new species we found there H.sp."Neblina". Well, here comes the worse part of the story. Unfortunately, there was something else they apparently forgot about my mails. They didn't see that magnificent H.tatei var.neblinae site, the only one we found for this species!!!! It was the best CP site and they didn't go there! This is a REAL pity, especially because I'm certain I mentioned this to them several times since I insisted that they camp there, and not at the cramped place where we'd camped. It was not much further along the trail and there was much more space for tents -- not to mention that it was a MUCH more interesting area too! BUT... Hasebe-san maybe did see H.tatei var.neblinae at a site which we didn't find. Unfortunately he was exploring alone that day and Shibata-san didn't get to see this site either.... Probably the weirdest thing about this expedition was that among the 7 participants, there were four ladies. The youngest one was Shibata-san (who's age I will ommit, since I'm not sure she wants everyone to know! :):) ) while the other 3 were all above 55: one around 55-60, another around 60-65, and then the oldest lady was **70** years old!!! And believe it or not, they ALL made it to the top of Neblina!! Amazing isn't it? Well, if you think it's surprising that they made it to the top of Neblina, you'll be even more shocked to hear that these 3 older ladies have also recently climbed **MT.EVEREST**!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! UNBELIEVABLE! You see, the leader of their Neblina expedition was a guy named Kuraoka-san, a good friend of Shibata-san's who frequently travels with her, especially to remote tepuis. He's a crazy rock climber and is hooked on all sorts of radical sports. He's been to the top of Mt.Everest twice himself! Anyways, he makes a living (partly) by guiding people on wild hiking and trekking trips. So these 3 elderly ladies (and maybe a few others, I'm not sure) on the Neblina expedition were actually clients of Kuraoka-san's, who have travelled with him before. Apparently, while organizing the porters and other details at S.Gabriel, the guides almost refused to go along when they saw the old ladies! HA!HA! They had to be convinced by Kuraoka-san that the "grandmas" were fit for the trip! It was apparently the talk of the town when they got back -- nobody could believe such old women had reached the top of Neblina. Hell, neither could I!! HA!HA!HA! In fact, there was also another similar curiosity about their trip. Apparently, they had to camp a bit further upstream from where we did last year, because our campsite was already occupied by a French team. The French apparently camped at the very top of Neblina on New Year's Eve because they were there for a reason: a wedding at midnight!!! Yep, some crazy French couple not only came up with this lame idea, but also decided to drag their poor relatives up there for the event! Talk about a troublesome wedding, huh?? Another bit of interesting news was that Hasebe-san saw plenty of Saccifolium on Neblina. This is that really strange plant which is only known from the very top of Neblina. It has inverted cupped leaves and it was one of the reasons we were climbing the mountain: to find out if it was carnivorous. Knowing what it looked like from the pictures I sent him, he had no problem finding more. We spent hours searching and only found one plant -- and it was quite different from the drawing in the paper where it was frist described. Well, I'm really happy to hear that my Japanese friends had a great time and much less trouble than we did last year on our Neblina expedition. It's a pity though that they didn't see the H.tatei var.neblinae site (see pics on my website and on Andreas Wistuba's). Asfor the elusive D.meristocaulis, it is apparently restricted to the N and NW corners of the Neblina mountains, which is on the Venezuelan side. Unfortunately this area is apparently only accessible by helicopter. Any CPer out there bursting with $$ they wanna donate to a good cause??? :):):) Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia Sao Paulo, Brazil ################### From: "William Longe" Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:20:30 -0500 Subject: William Longe/MIA/NTRS is out of the office. I will be out of the office from 01/13/2000 until 01/21/2000. I will be reading my e-mail and will respond if I can. ################### From: Christer Berglund Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 18:51:33 +0100 Subject: Transplanting petiolaris-complex? Hi, I've read that the best time to transplant temperate sundews is when they're dormant, does the same apply for plants from the petiolaris-complex? Does anyone know what germinated D. falconeri looks like? I've got something growing in a pot, but I'm not sure if it has been contaminated with some other plant or not. Regards, -- Christer Berglund E-mail: christer.berglund@amiga.pp.se ################### From: hellotel@smip.net Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 10:24:30 Subject: Save 50-80% on International Calls and Win $500 in Free phone calls For more information email us: sayhello@altavistausa.com Save up to 80% on your INTERNATIONAL long distance phone bill. Join our easy-to-use callback service today for FREE. There are no monthly minimums, surcharges or set-up fees, just low flat rates 24 hours, everyday. Visit our website: http://hometown.aol.com/hellocorp/ and win $500 in FREE phone calls. Email: sayhello@altavistausa.com http://hometown.aol.com/hellocorp/ Sample our LOW rate chart below. To determine the rates add cost of country you are calling FROM to cost of country you are calling TO. Complete rate list available on our website. Prices are per minute in USD. 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I await your new Thierry [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Joe Harden" Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 15:20:39 -0600 Subject: Icq Member list I forgot where I was, but I ran into http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/5163/icqlist.html where the old ICQ CP listing is. I was going to update my information, and found out it hasn't been updated in almost two years. I sent an email to Gadgen@ix.netcom.com but it came back undeliverable. Has this ICQ thing gone the way of the do-do bird? Might explain why I haven't heard from anyone with ICQ in a while.... Joe Harden [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: Michael King Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 17:01:54 -0500 Subject: Adrian Slack book for sale Dear all, I have a spare copy of Adrian Slack's book "Carnivorous Plants" for sale. It is a 1st edition hardback copy. Please Email me privately if interested. Best Regards Mike King Telford UK See my new Carnivorous Plant Website: http://www.soft.net.uk/newcombe/ssar/homepage.htm ################### From: jneps Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:51:07 -0700 Subject: Re: bitch, bitch, bitch Hi, My reply to Phil was not intended to be posted to the list; I accidentally sent it there by mistake. It was intended strictly for Phil. Fernando and anyone else interested: I am not trying to imply any- thing or accuse anyone of impropriety. If I see something which does not interest me on the list, I just ignore it. It was not my intent to offend anyone. Jeff Shafer Fernando Rivadavia-Lopes wrote: > > Dear Phil and Jeff, > > Hey guys, I'm really sorry about all the recent posts regarding > the idiot who stole my webpage, but please understand that it's a very > frustrating situation for me! And who else is there to look to for help > other than the online CP community?? Because many other CPers out there also > have their own webpages, this is a matter of wide interest, believe it or > not. OK, it may not be an enjoyable subject to all on the listserv, but > nothing is unanymous. You think all mails to the listserv are to the taste > of all members? I usually only read a mail or two out of the bunch in each > digest -- if any at all. But I think it's important to keep it an open forum > for CPers in general, even when it comes to off topic stuff. And come on, be > reasonable, I really didn't crowd the listserv with my plagiarism mails over > this past week. We've had much worse -- like VFT finger puppet wars -- over > the past few years. There are still plenty of other mails inbetween my > recent ones which I'm sure you'd consider more "to-the-topic" subjects. I > mean, in my opinion, even worse than crowding a digest with a single subject > is forgetting to erase an entire message you're replying to, like Jeff did > at the end of his mail -- that's 100% wasted space since everybody read it > all already. But it happens, like sometimes people forget to put titles to > their mails. So please be a bit more patient and just skip over mails which > are not of your interest, which is what most of us do already. And this is > no reason to stop subscribing either, if only to enjoy the occasional jewels > which are to our complete delight on the listserv. Not to mention that it's > the best way to get to know so many other interesting people, some of which > you may even get the chance to meet personally in San Francisco this year!! > At least be a bit more forgiving with me. After all, think of all the time I > waste on the keyboard to tell everyone on the listserv in details about mine > (and other's) CP expeditions, usually writing about extremely rare plants, > most of which aren't in cultivation yet and are often not even known from > pictures! Of all people, I think my accumulated sum of "on-topic" and > informative mails to the listserv entitles me to at least a little leeway, > huh?!?! :):) > > Sorry for any inconvenience.... > > Fernando Rivadavia > Sao Paulo, Brazil ################### From: Owen Priddle Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 22:58:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: hydroponics experiment update Hi everybody- You may remember that I started experimenting with hydroponics a couple of months ago... I thought I would post a brief update here. Basically, everything is doing very well! My original planting included Heliamphora, Cephalotus, Nepenthes, Darlingtonia, Drosera, Genlisea, and Utricularia. Of these, all are thriving except for Nepenthes, which never became established. The Helis and Cephalotus are well rooted and actively growing, the Droseras are growing EXTREMELY fast, and the Utricularia is, of course, quickly making itself a weed. A brief description of my set-up: 1) plants are potted in small mesh pots of the kind designed for aquaculture, in either rockwool, lava rock, or clay pearls. 2) the pots are set in a window-box type planter and surrounded with clay pearls. 3) the entire surface is covered with a thin layer of lava-rock; this prevents algal growth and also helps to weigh the material down and prevent the clay-pearls from floating. 4) the planter sits atop a bucket full of the watering solution, with a small aquarium pump which periodically floods the whole thing from the bottom. The watering solution is distilled water, Blackwater Tonic at recommended strength, and a commercial all-purpose hydroponics solution at one-half recommended strength. I do not monitor water-quality. Originally I had everything planted directly in clay pearls directly in the planter, but they tended to float and shift and the plants fell over and were unable to develop good root systems. Covering the surface with lava-rocks to weigh it down, and in some cases planting specimens in rockwool, solved this. I also grow N. northiana in a passive hydroponics system -- a mix of lava, clay, and charcoal, sitting in a shallow tray of pure water -- with great success. I highly recommend that everyone experiment with this -- my thrown-together system works extremely well, and I am sure that with refinement and experimentation it could be made even more effective. If anyone wishes further information I'd be happy to provide it! -Owen Priddle Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ################### From: Steve Hinkson Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 00:39:52 -0800 Subject: ICQ list Joe: ICQ's fine and doin' well. Just the "geocities" list that has died. ICQ maintains it's own user preferences lists. You can access them from your ICQ window. BTW, my # is: 7751899 Steve Drop by and see me at : http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/6811 ################### From: "Sundew" Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:44:52 +1100 Subject: Lichens and earwigs Dear all I am wondering if anyone can help me to find a cure to two pains in the rear end? The first regards the removal of Lichens from the glass panels of a 25 year old glasshouse. I have thus far scrapped as much as I can off the sections, but there still remains patches that are reddish in colour, with some smaller also still in tact. Is there some safe remedy to kill it all off, as I don't want to have to make this awkward task a regular one? A non-chemical one would be most appreciative, if there so exists. The second involves what we call 'Earwigs', small insects that have what looks like two inward curved tweezers at the tips of their abdomens. Anyways, they get and munch away on some of my Mexican _Pinguiculas_, and I am convinced that they have been retarding the growth of my _P. species Pico De Oriziba_. They have been in almost plague proportions the last few months, with the mild Summer & wet weather. So, if anyone knows of a simple, yet effective way to get rid of the blasted things, I would be thrilled! Regards Nathan J. Clemens [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Rogan Roth" Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 11:45:34 +0200 Subject: Fernando, don't stop! Dear Fernando et al., Don't ever stop writing your expeditions to the list - they make VERY good reading, thanks for all the effort. It is also interesting to see how other people deal with effronteries such as plagiarism. Best regards (wishing-he-was-in-Brazil) Rogan. Rogan B. Roth P.O.Box 100-210 SCOTTSVILLE 3209 KwaZulu-Natal Rep. of South Africa ################### From: Dionaea@aol.com Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:19:27 EST Subject: Germinated D. falconeri/ When is dry season in NT, AU? Christer, I just had some germination on my D. falconeri (and several others). Judging from this and past experience you will have to wait for a while to find out if you really have D. falconeri. In my opinion all freshly germinated Drosera look the same. On a related note... can someone tell me which months of year correspond to the dry season in the part of Northern Australia that is home to the petiolaris complex? I have been looking through the literature and can't find any definitive answers. Thanks, Christoph ################### From: Ivan Snyder Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:42:21 -0800 Subject: re: D. petiolaris' online Attention petiolaris enthusiasts, Matt wrote: >Just posted a no-frills web page featuring a photo of part of my >D.petiolaris complex collection (all plants in photo less than 1 >year old). Please check it out! HEere's the URL: >http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/9219/petiolaris1.html Glad to see someone else successfully growing sundews of the petiolaris complex. I'm sure that Matt's seed was produced by the all-time master grower of the plants Sean Samia, my friend here in Southern California. Sean is not on the CP Listserv but does receive e-mail on his cell phone now at < seansamia@yahoo.com >. Though I do not myself grow them I do admire his magnificent looking plants. From him I learned some facts which would interest those who have grown and studied them. Like for instance: yes they do require cross-pollination to produce seed. Hybrids between all the species are fertile and Sean has made some which are truly awsome. Sean believes, and I agree, that some of the many highly variable species are actually hybrids, which he has recreated. Sean would like to correspond with others having a particular interest in this complex. He has seed of many available from time to time. ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ################### From: Randall Palmer Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:40:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: Salty water We were suppose to get salt out of our medium. But what the heck I put 1 tablespoon in 1 gallon of water. My Venus Fly take it, loves it and survives so what about everthing else. Havn't tried on nepenthes only because they're in a tararrium in the house for the winter. So I not ready to send salt out to the pasture yet. Cousin Clem ################### From: Steve Clancy Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 11:54:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Growing Outdoors: Photos Jeff, I have some pictures of various Sarracenia along with some Drosera capensis that I grow outside all year under a grape arbor. I live in Southern California about 4 miles from the beach. Summer temp can get to 95-100f winter rarely gets to freezing. During the summer they are partially shaded by the grape vines, but in winter, when the grape vine drops its leaves, they get full winter sunlight. I am also currently growing a larger pot of D. capensis and some unidentified Pinguicula, but I don't have any pictures of them yet. You may use the pictures, but please give me credit. They are at "http://members.xoom.com/sclancy/cp.htm". --steve clancy Steve Clancy MLS, Science Library, Univ. of California, Irvine P.O. Box 19556, Irvine, CA 92623-9556 U.S.A. 949-824-7309 * http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~sclancy * sclancy@uci.edu *---------------------------------------------------------------------* "If you ever reach total enlightenment while you're drinking a beer, I'll bet it makes beer shoot out your nose." *---------------------------------------------------------------------* On Thu, 6 Jan 2000 JDPDX@aol.com wrote: > I'm trying to tackle a problem. I'm a small grower/reseller of CP in > the Pacific Northwest. Most of my clientle are first-time buyers who > haven't a clue about how to grow CP, but have had plenty of experience > killing Venus Flytraps, and are very well-versed in the abundant > misinformation that is out there. They would like to try CP, but are > afraid of them. > > Here in the Northwest, west of the Cascade range, all of the > Sarracenia, Venus Flytraps, temperate sundews and butterworts all grow > very well in our climate outdoors. It's often hard to convince people > of that. > > I'm looking for photos any of you might have that show CP growing > outdoors in bog gardens, container gardens, alongside ponds, on > patios, pictures with snow on Sarracenia, hanging baskets, etc... > > E-mail me if you have anything you would like to share. It will help > many people new to growing CP to be successful. I would love to see > the day when a small savage garden is as common on a sunny patio as > are petunias. > > Jeff Dallas Sarracenia Northwest > ################### From: "Paul Edwards" Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 08:30:20 +1100 Subject: Re: Germinated D. falconeri/ When is dry season in NT, AU? ----- Original Message ----- To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2000 12:26 AM > > On a related note... can someone tell me which months of year correspond to > the dry season in the part of Northern Australia that is home to the > petiolaris complex? I have been looking through the literature and can't > find any definitive answers. > > Thanks, > Christoph > > Hi Christoph, The dry season in Northern Oz is during Winter - June to August. Summer (especially from New Year onwards) is very wet / monsoonal. In Southern Australia (where I am) this is reversed. --------------------------------------------- Paul Edwards, Bampton Park, Neerim South, Victoria. Australia. edwards@net2000.com.au --------------------------------------------- ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:56:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: ICPS photo gallery Hey CP lovers! The ICPS is now running an on-line, quarterly photo gallery where you can display your photographs. Just go to the ICPS web site (http://www.carnivorousplants.org) and look at the navigation bar for the Member Photo Gallery. Steven Venter (stevev@carnivorousplants.org) has agreed to take on the task of curating the gallery. Steven is located in Africa, and helps work on a project with disabled Zulu men and women. To learn a little more about this, look at his web site at: http://jabulani.hypermart.net/ I hope you'll all make Steven welcome! The first photo gallery will be entitled, "My Favorite Things" and will showcase your favorite clones, species, genera, places, or photograph where CP are the subject. The submission deadline is February 20th. Your photos will remain your property, of course, but you will get the pleasure of seeing them on the web at the ICPS site. Enjoy, and happy photographing! Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: "Tarcisio" Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 02:14:01 -0200 Subject: Planta carnivora. Eu gostari se fosse posivel que voc\352s me enviace por @-mail, tudo o que voc\352s descobriram e sabem sobre a planta Dionaea muscipula. Eu tenho uma muda nova em casa m\341s n\343o sei de nada dela.Quando ela come\347a a pegar incetos? Os cuidados que eu tenho que ter com ela etc.Eu agrade\347o pela aten\347\343o!!!!! E fico esperando resposta. Obrigado!!!!! Roberto. [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: Susan Ziegler Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 23:34:04 -0600 Subject: Sarr seeds.. now what? It is coming close to the time which is required to plant the sarr. purpurea seeds that I have stratified the past 3 months.. How do I do this, and what do I plant them in? Do they need humidity? Please help :) I don't want to kill them like I have in the past.. Susan Enchanter MadCrew Member deceit@geocities.com On EfNet as Enchanter or [enchan] ################### From: Kris Kopicki Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 16:16:54 +1030 Subject: Re: Germinated D. falconeri/ When is dry season in NT, AU? Hi, > On a related note... can someone tell me which months of year correspond to > the dry season in the part of Northern Australia that is home to the > petiolaris complex? I have been looking through the literature and can't > find any definitive answers. Wet season starts in around November, and goes through to about March. The rest of the year is the dry season. regards, Kris ################### From: Todd Wuest Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:01:17 -0600 Subject: Re: germination of d. falconeri > > On a related note... can someone tell me which months of year correspond to > the dry season in the part of Northern Australia that is home to the > petiolaris complex? I have been looking through the literature and can't > find any definitive answers. > > Thanks, > Christoph > > here's two links i think will help you, the first is a link to an AUS government sight that gives very detailed and specific information on weather records for cities in AUS, you can just use allen lowrie's seedlist to get a local for a specific species, look up the local and not only do you know the basic seasons of the local, you can also get a feeling for its subtleties, such as how dry the dry season is, how hot is tropical AUS? etc. http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/ this next one is like the first just more general and extended throughout the world including some weather stations in nep country http://www.worldclimate.com/ take it easy todd wuest ################### From: teachout@oz.net Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 23:10:03 -0800 Subject: PNW growing outdoors Jeff, I grow Sarracenias outdoors as well as the littler guys that overwinter in the greenhouse. Mine were in a whiskey barrel liner sunk in the ground and now are in a whiskey barrel that is partially sunk in the ground (old barrel falling apart now planted). They have done remarkbly well in that container. I planted some Venus flytraps and sundews in with them but took the traps out for winter and they are in a cool greenhouse. I accidently ended up with a ground cover of Azolla in the barrel (brought in from the pond) that has taken over but the Sarracenia don't seem to mind and it looks nice so it stays and nicely covers the rim of the liner. BTW this is my first posting here so I should introduce myself as a native PNWer an avid gardener for most of my adult life, and the last few years started growing cps and more recently ponding - loving every minute of this new frontier for me. I enjoy the list and hope to contribute or ask questions where and when needed. Should have been on this list before as I tried unsuccessfully to start Darlingtonia's from seed and last year finally had germination. They are still tiny and these babies are in the greenhouse where I am hoping this year they start to grow up. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Deb TT Washington state USDA zone 8, Sunset zone 5 http://www.rainyside.com/ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ################### From: "Fernando Rivadavia-Lopes" Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:54:30 -0200 Subject: Plagiarized webpage off the internet!!! Dear friends, I've just been told by a fellow CPer that the plagiarized page was off the net. He'd received a mail from Tripod (why they wrote him and not us as well, I don't know) saying they'd removed the page and were in no way connected to the perpetrator, bla-bla-bla. HURRAAAAAAAAAAAAY! Well, thanks to everyone for all the support during this "crisis". We really appreciate your efforts and hope to be able to do the same in case this ever happens again to anyone else out there. Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia Sao Paulo, Brazil ################### From: "John Green" Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 08:26:25 -0700 Subject: re: earwigs Nathan Clemens wrote: > The second involves what we call 'Earwigs', small > insects that have what looks like two inward curved > tweezers at the tips of their abdomens. Anyways, > they get and munch away on some of my Mexican > _Pinguiculas_, and I am convinced that they have > been retarding the growth of my _P. species Pico De > Oriziba_. They have been in almost plague proportions > the last few months, with the mild Summer & wet weather. > So, if anyone knows of a simple, yet effective way to get > rid of the blasted things, I would be thrilled! Sorry to hear you have the disgusting little things in Australia, too. They haven't been much of a problem for me, but I regularly find them caught by S. purpurea and VFTs, so maybe buy a few extra of those plants and put them with your pings. I'd also recommend finding out what areas they breed in, like under boards and such, and eliminate any potential breeding areas. And finally, something like Diazinon might help, too. Good luck. John Green Salt Lake City, Utah, USA ################### From: Dionaea@aol.com Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 10:34:07 EST Subject: Dry Season in NT, AU Paul, Thanks for the info. I suspected as much but I couldn't verify it anywhere. This should make growing the D. petiolaris complex easier in the NE USA where the summer temps get really warm. Do you know what the temperature range is during the dry season and the wet season? > Hi Christoph, > > The dry season in Northern Oz is during Winter - June to August. Summer > (especially from New Year onwards) is very wet / monsoonal. In Southern > Australia (where I am) this is reversed. ################### From: Christer Berglund Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 21:21:07 +0100 Subject: re: Germinated D. falconeri > if you really have D. falconeri. In my opinion all freshly germinated > Drosera look the same. Hi Christoph, I've got a private reply stating the same as you, so I'm sure now that what I have is not falconeri (or even a drosera). This is the second try with this species without success. I have so far germinated 5 species of the petiolaris complex. D. kenneallyi is only other species that I failed with. Would you care to share some information regarding your falconeri (time of germination, soil, temp etc.)? Thanks for the help, -- Christer Berglund E-mail: christer.berglund@amiga.pp.se ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 15:02:21 -0800 Subject: PNWCPC meeting Hi everyone, The Pacific Northwest Carnivorous Plant Club has a date set for the first meeting. This will be on May 7, 2000 from 11am to 4pm in the Richmond Nature Centre, Richmond, B.C., Canada. This time, it will be a public show, but member only sale and trade, since most people won't have sufficient stock for public availability. If you haven't been receiving my e-mails to the PNWCPC group, but want to, let me know at this address (cjteichr@sfu.ca) or at cteichreb@hotmail.com. Full details will also be posted on our website at www.nurserysite.com/clubs/pnwcarnivorous. Thanks, and happy growing! Chris ################### From: "Zach Katz" Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:11:29 -0500 Subject: carnivorous books Hi, I'm looking for a name of a good botanist that did some work with carnivorous plants and that has either a biography or autobiography out. It could be on some kind of trip someone took or anything just something in that subject area and that there is a book that one can pick up at any bookstore. If you have a name that would really help me out. Thanx. Zach ################### From: Ccp108@aol.com Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 21:13:58 EST Subject: The Venus Quandary When the stalks and traps of the Venus turn black and gooey it isn't getting enough subtenants up from the roots to keep it green. Down where the roots used to live they disappear by the protozoa of root rot. And if you leave the remains of the plant in the pot outside thripes eat everything up where there is no more plant. So even though we were able to remove the plant from the plastic red terrarium and have it survive for a time, it gives up the ghost. But one more thing will be what will guarantee survival, a small percentage of salt in the soil. If you don't want to try it on more than one healthy plant, try a little salty water over some of your on the way to, or dead plants. Cousin Clem ################### From: William Tsun-Yuk Hsu Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 18:49:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: dormancy problems I have a S. purpurea with densely clustered pitchers which is being kept outside for winter (I live in San Francisco). When I last checked it, some of the pitchers are rotting near the base, and there's a powdery green/gray substance over the crown and the bases of the pitchers. Is this what's called "powdery mildew"? I've cut off all the unhealthy pitchers and am wondering what else I should do. Should I wash the plant thoroughly and repot? Is it necessary to look into fungicides? Should I try to keep the plant in a drier place? (It's been raining on and off.) Thanks... (I don't see fungus on my other sarrancenias nearby; maybe the densely clustered purpurea pitchers make for poor ventilation?) Bill ################### From: Steve Hinkson Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:49:39 -0800 Subject: lichen and algae "Dear all I am wondering if anyone can help me to find a cure to two pains in the rear end? "The first regards the removal of Lichens from the glass panels of a 25 year old glasshouse. I have thus far scrapped as much as I can off the sections, but there still remains patches that are reddish in colour, with some smaller also still in tact." Nathan: As to your "pains in the rear end", Nathan, You're doin' it all wrong if you have lichens OR Earwigs there ! *grin* Algae and lichen may be removed cleanly from glass with a strond acid, and it kills as it cleans. Here, I use "Lime-A-Way" brand, which is a hard water stain remover, but I have no idea if it's available there. "You can easily judge the character of a person by how he treats those who can do nothing for him or to him." Malcolm Forbes Drop by and see me at : http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/6811 ################### From: "Andrew Marshall" Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 21:30:46 -0800 Subject: earwigs Hi, A tip I picked up for dealing with earwigs that works. I take newspaper, old is best, and roll it a little looser then I would if I were delivering it. Lay these rolls around the greenhouse. Earwigs like to hide in these and will do so. Check them each morning by shaking them out, still rolled up, over a large bucket of water. Take the earwigs that fall out and feed them to your Nepenthes. They make GREAT food for them. You could also do as I do, which is to go at night with a torch in one hand, tweezers in the other. Hand catch the little stinkers and either put them in a jar for later feeding, or feed to the nepenthes right away. Good hunting and best wishes Andrew ################### From: "tierney wayne" Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 01:16:40 PST Subject: Re: earwigs and other stuff... Hi everyone, I seem to remember from a pest management class eons ago that earwigs could be trapped by rolling a damp newspaper into a cigar and leaving it on the ground where the problem is. They will hide in it during the day and can then be collected and disposed of (which makes this method a double pleasure as we all know how most of us like to dispose of insects!) I also have a rather embarrassing question- I've been really out of the loop for so long with school and work etc etc- but is it still possible to register for the meeting in may? If someone could tell me how to go about it I'd be very grateful... Finally thanks to the people who responded to my inquiry about an aquatic plant digest- I wasn't able to thank everyone personally. Thanks and good growing! Tierney San Jose CA > ################### From: "Flick Foreman" Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 11:05:20 -0000 Subject: Tony Camilleri Does anyone have the address of Tony Camilleri? Please email me privately. Thanks. Flick. [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: Michael King Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 08:33:44 -0500 Subject: Sarr seeds.. now what? Message text written by INTERNET:cp@opus.hpl.hp.com >Sarr seeds.. now what?< Dear Susan, The best thing to do is is prepare some pots with moss peat with sand/perlite mix and sprinkle your seeds on the top of this mix. DO NOT bury your seeds. Place the pots into a cold or cool greenhouse and germination should take place this spring. Place these pots in trays of soft water just like your mature Sarracenias. Good growing! Best Regards Mike King See my new Carnivorous Plant Website: http://www.soft.net.uk/newcombe/ssar/homepage.htm ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 10:45:31 -0500 Subject: re petiolaris online Hi Ivan and Sean! > > Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 08:42:21 -0800 > From: Ivan Snyder > To: cp@opus.hpl.hp.com > Cc: seansamia@yahoo.com > Subject: re: D. petiolaris' online > Message-ID: <20000121.084311.6878.0.bioexp@juno.com> > > Attention petiolaris enthusiasts, > > Matt wrote: > >Just posted a no-frills web page featuring a photo of part of my > >D.petiolaris complex collection (all plants in photo less than 1 > >year old). Please check it out! HEere's the URL: > >http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/9219/petiolaris1.html > > Glad to see someone else successfully growing sundews of the > petiolaris complex. Thanks! I'm sure that Matt's seed was produced by the > all-time master grower of the plants Sean Samia, my friend here in > Southern California. Actually, the plants on my "petiolaris page" were all from seed given to me by my buddy Phill of Southwest Carnivores of Australia, as well as seed originally obtained from Lowrie and swapped to me by another CPer friend. My larger derbyensis, ordensis and hybrid between the 2, which I got from a friend who got them from the ICPS seed bank, were originally sent in by Sean. :) But these were in the "other Drosera terrarium" pic. Incidentally, the seed you sent me from Sean is growing pretty slowly but I'm sure is partly due to the lower temperatures theyve been getting. Ive been meaning to move them to my hotter setup but this would involve a trip outside and I dont think the plants would appreciate the COOOOLLLDDDDD temps outside so have been waiting for a more mild day. Always looking for more seed of this stuff, hybrids or especially species... Sean is not on the CP Listserv but does receive > e-mail on his cell phone now at < seansamia@yahoo.com >. Though I do not > myself grow them I do admire his magnificent looking plants. From him I > learned some facts which would interest those who have grown and studied > them. Like for instance: yes they do require cross-pollination to produce > seed. Hybrids between all the species are fertile and Sean has made some > which are truly awsome. Sean believes, and I agree, that some of the many > highly variable species are actually hybrids, which he has recreated. Definitely agree with you 2 as well here. I wonder how many more varieties Lowrie will come across in his travels. Any suggestions as to what the original species are? Matt ################### From: Dionaea@aol.com Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 11:13:29 EST Subject: Dry season in NT, AUS Kris and Todd, Thank you for your info. I think the information provided will be of great help to everyone out there. Christoph ################### From: Dionaea@aol.com Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 11:32:27 EST Subject: D. falconeri Christer, > Would you care to share some information regarding your falconeri (time > of germination, soil, temp etc.)? > > Thanks for the help, Sure, but let me qualify my statements by saying that that all I know right now is that a Drosera germinated. I can't verify its identity for some time to come... I planted the seed on 12/28/99 on long-fibered sphagnum that was originally obtained from Mellingers here in the US. The pots were placed in a 10 gallon tank (38 L) approximately 8 inches (20 cm) away from 2 40-watt fluorescent light bulbs (once I have more germination I will increase it to 4 40-watt bulbs). The temperature in the tank during the day is between 80F and 86F (27C-30C), during the night it is between 60F and 66F (15C and 18C). In the summer, the temps will no doubt be much higher. The pots are standing in about 1cm of water. In this manner I had germination in about 2-3 weeks. I also have germination on D. ordensis, D. paradoxa, D. aff. paradoxa "Metallic Orange Flower," D. broomensis and D. caduca. I am expecting more germination in the next few weeks. Check with me in a year and I should be able to tell you if my D. falconeri is the true thing. Hope this helps. Christoph ################### From: j.dewitte@t-online.de Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:41:34 +0100 (MET) Subject: seeds Here some info I tought I should share. I decided to clean out my fridge, and get rid of the seeds I stored over time. So I prepared TC-medium and started putting out nepenthes seeds. The first to germinate (with a rate of better than 80%) after two weeks were highland seeds from 1996, but surprisingly highlanders from back in 1993 germinated (still better than 15%) after 4 weeks. So one should not despair. Proper storage (and germination technique) still does wonders. Jean-Pierre De Witte mailto: j.dewitte@t-online.de Time: 19:37:11 http://www.jeandewitte.de This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- ################### From: "Diane Charette" Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 14:39:13 -0500 Subject: Re:Sarr seeds.. now what? Hi, Go there,: http://www.vaxxine.com/ccphome and go into the caring page, Carl has wrote a very good page on everything to do for Sar. Work very well for me. Good luck with your seedlings:) Tom [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Paul Edwards" Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:36:56 +1100 Subject: Re: Tony Camilleri Try: C/O Victorian Carnivorous Plant Society, PO Box 201, South Yarra Vic 3141 Australia --------------------------------------------- Paul Edwards, Bampton Park, Neerim South, Victoria. Australia. edwards@net2000.com.au --------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2000 10:11 PM > Does anyone have the address of Tony Camilleri? Please email me > privately. Thanks. Flick. > > [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] > ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 18:22:09 -0500 Subject: Silicone ? Hey CP people, I just bought 4 x 6" high terraria for some of my plants but was told they are not waterproof as only the bottom has been sealed with silicone. The people I bought these tanks from told me not to use marine or over-paint silicone. Went to the hardware store (Home Depot) and found Silicone II which specifically mentions it is NOT to be used with aquaria. Does anyone know why? Can it not handle the water pressure or is it toxic to fish? The only thing I found which did not have this warning (and therefore purchased) was GE's 100% Silicone Rubber Sealant (Clear, indoor/outdoor, watertight...). Since all the others were by GE as well, I am assuming this one is safe for aquarium / terrarium use? I'd actually prefer the silicone 2 if possible as it was available in a smaller tube which will surely be more managable. All advice appreciated! Thanks! Matt [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: dalford@norfolk.infi.net Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 20:59:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Silicone ? I would say toxic to fish & maybe plants as well. Don't know about Silicone II - but back in the 60's when I was building all of my own aquariums (1 to 250 gallon) all of the silicones except Dow Corning had ARSENIC in them to prevent mold formation. The marine silicones may have tributal tin (TBT) which prevents barnacles & algae from attaching to boat hulls. If it's not safe for fish I don't think I would use it for my plants either. The larger tubes for use in caulking guns are a better deal for your money. Most can have soemething stuck over or in the tip to prevent drying out in between uses. Check the labels & see if they say they inhibit mold & mildew - if so don't use them. At 03:21 PM 1/23/00 -0800, you wrote: >Hey CP people, > >I just bought 4 x 6" high terraria for some of my plants but was >told they are not waterproof as only the bottom has been sealed with >silicone. > >The people I bought these tanks from told me not to use marine or >over-paint silicone. Went to the hardware store (Home Depot) and >found Silicone II which specifically mentions it is NOT to be used >with aquaria. Does anyone know why? Can it not handle the water >pressure or is it toxic to fish? > >The only thing I found which did not have this warning (and >therefore purchased) was GE's 100% Silicone Rubber Sealant (Clear, >indoor/outdoor, watertight...). Since all the others were by GE as >well, I am assuming this one is safe for aquarium / terrarium use? > >I'd actually prefer the silicone 2 if possible as it was available >in a smaller tube which will surely be more managable. All advice >appreciated! Thanks! > >Matt > >[HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] > > ################### From: "E.T." Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 17:34:47 +0100 Subject: Neblina tours To all, One team, then a second one, etc and now a wedding ! For when a funfair or a moovie with indiana johns ? I was very disapointed when i learnt the discoveries made during the first travel on the Neblina tepui because i knew it was the begin of the end for this last savage and untouched ecosystem. Unfortunately, the facts don't reassure me at all. It becomes more and more an up to date destination. Not far enough. Not expensive enough. It seems that all this is happenning in a general indifference like if it was the destiny of humans beeing to colonize, destroy and then regret their ancestor's acts. Hoping to be not alone. Regards. >Topic No. 16 > >Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 02:17:50 -0200 >From: "Fernando Rivadavia-Lopes" >To: "CP listserv" >Subject: Neblina II -- the Japanese Expedition >Message-ID: <00b301bf62fd$db85f320$e0dcbfc8@aguia.mtecnetsp.com.br> > .../... > In fact, there was also another similar curiosity about their >trip. Apparently, they had to camp a bit further upstream from where we did >last year, because our campsite was already occupied by a French team. The >French apparently camped at the very top of Neblina on New Year's Eve >because they were there for a reason: a wedding at midnight!!! Yep, some >crazy French couple not only came up with this lame idea, but also decided >to drag their poor relatives up there for the event! Talk about a >troublesome wedding, huh?? > .../... -- ----------------------------------- Eric THOUMIRE - Z.7b St Maur des Fosses (suburb of Paris) France ----------------------------------- ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:55:12 -0500 Subject: Silicone, part 2 OK, Thanks to the person who responded regarding the silicone issue. I just called the manufacturer and they said the reason they say not to use the stuff in aquaria is because they dont want to get sued if leakage occurs. They also say their kitchen and bath products should not be used with living things as they are anti fungal and mildew and probably have a bad effect on other living things as well. So, it should be safe to use window and door silicone in cp terraria with a low water table :) Matt [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: Phil Wilson Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:21:55 +0000 Subject: Re: Sarr seeds.. now what? While I always hate to disagree with my friends.... > The best thing to do is is prepare some pots with moss peat with >sand/perlite mix and sprinkle >your seeds on the top of this mix. DO NOT bury your seeds. Place the pots You should barely cover the seeds using either a thin layer of the same soil mix or fine grade vermiculite. I find I get better germination this way and I suspect the reason is that seed that is left on the surface of the soil is prone to desiccation during the early stages of germination. >into a cold or cool greenhouse and germination should take place this >spring. Place these pots in trays of soft water >just like your mature Sarracenias. > The one thing Mike forgot to mention is to sow the seeds now and allow them a cold period of stratification. The easiest way to achieve this is to leave the pots with the seeds in a cold greenhouse. If this is not possible then you can store the seeds in a fridge (don't put them in the freezer though). You need to allow at least four weeks for stratification - six weeks is better. Regards, Phil Wilson Email: cp@pwilson.demon.co.uk ################### From: Tom Massey Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:22:01 -0500 Subject: RE: Silicone, part 2 Well that's good information. I always wondered if that "don't use for aquariums" was to protect against the current fad of to suing everybody for everything. A few years back (maybe about 1977 or so) I built several 30 gallon aquariums using silicon with pretty good results, I still have them and they have never leaked. I kept both fresh and brackish water fish for many years without obvious problems. I still use clear silicon when I make aquariums/terrariums; just make sure you let it cure awhile before adding your plants. FWIW, Tom in Fl. On Monday, January 24, 2000 10:00 AM, Sundew Sundew [SMTP:sundew@hotmail.com] wrote: > OK, Thanks to the person who responded regarding the silicone issue. > I just called the manufacturer and they said the reason they say not > to use the stuff in aquaria is because they dont want to get sued if > leakage occurs. They also say their kitchen and bath products > should not be used with living things as they are anti fungal and > mildew and probably have a bad effect on other living things as > well. So, it should be safe to use window and door silicone in cp > terraria with a low water table :) > > Matt > > [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] > > ################### From: "Madeleine Groves" Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:35:34 -0000 Subject: New email address Dear All, Back working at Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew, UK at the Conservation Projects Development Unit (CPDU). I will keep the hotmail address going for a bit (mad_groves@hotmail.com), but please use this email address from now on. Thanks, Mad Madeleine Groves Scientific Officer Conservation Projects Development Unit (CPDU) RBG Kew Richmond Surrey TW9 3AB Tel:+44-(0)181-332-5584 Fax:+44-(0)181-332-5582 ################### From: "Joe Harden" Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:45:18 -0600 Subject: Cheap Water Trays Hello all. If anyone is looking for large but cheap plastic tubs to use as watering trays, Target (here in Texas) has some on clearence this weekend, $7.00. They are sold as underbed storage boxes, but work great for anyone with lots of little pots and wants to get rid of lots of little water trays. The lids easily pop off, and are 1 inch deep. The containers themselves are 3 inches deep, and have a smooth bottom. They are about 3 feet by 1 1/2 feet. Joe Harden www.carnivorous-kingdom My thought for the day -- Scientist think they have found a human gene that can lengthen a human lifespan up to 150 years. If you ask me, the Internal Revenue Service is the goverment agency supporting this research. [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: Douglas.W.Darnowski@washcoll.edu (Douglas W. Darnowski) Date: 24 Jan 2000 14:28:02 EST XSubject: Cheap Water Trays Not about cp's, but there is a nice article in the latest Fiddlehead Forum (Bulletin of the American Fern Society, which has a web page) on the ferns of the tepuis, including endemic species. Also a story about an expedition drugging itself by eating blueberries which it found on top of Cerro de Neblina when stranded there for some days. Doug Darnowski ################### From: Michael Feddersen Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:54:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: Old Nepenthes Seed Jean, That's amazing that the seed sprouted after all that time. Was there any special conditions to store the seed? If not then I have some N. merrilliana seed from 1996 that has been in an airtight jar in the re- frigerator for all of that time. I would be happy to give packets away for free to anyone to try and sprout the old seed via tc. Hopefully if it sprouts results would be announced on this listserv. Please I am not interested in any plants that sprouted in return, I have plenty. Who knows maybe something special might sprout like a varigated one again. E-mail me at bb626@scn.org Truly, Tom Kahl/Nepenthes Club ################### From: "Paul Edwards" Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:30:51 +1100 Subject: Re: Dry Season in NT, AU For temperature averages throughout Australia, take a look at the Australian Bureau of Meteorology at www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages Paul ----- Original Message ----- To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2000 2:40 AM > Paul, > Thanks for the info. I suspected as much but I couldn't verify it anywhere. > This should make growing the D. petiolaris complex easier in the NE USA where > the summer temps get really warm. > > Do you know what the temperature range is during the dry season and the wet > season? > > > > Hi Christoph, > > > > The dry season in Northern Oz is during Winter - June to August. Summer > > (especially from New Year onwards) is very wet / monsoonal. In Southern > > Australia (where I am) this is reversed. > ################### From: "Sundew" Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 18:28:34 +1100 Subject: Many thanks... Dear fellow cpers Many thanks for all of the advice, via the Listserve, as well as the personal ones, for my Lichen & earwig queries. Yet another great aspect of the Listserver! One quey whilst here. I am after a copy of the following video by PBS Television (USA) called 'Islands in the Mist', Nature (series name). It was aired on the 16 April 1989, & I am sure a few long term cpers would have it in their collections. If you know of anyone who may have this one, I would love to organise a copy! Many thanks. Regards Nathan J. Clemens Bowral NSW Australia sundew@mitmania.net.au "All those fake celebrities/ And all those vicious queens/ All the stupid papers/ And the stupid magazines/ Sweet dreams are made of anything/ That gets you in the scene" Peace, Eurythmics. [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Isao Takai" Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:43:47 +0900 Subject: Looking for Mr.Terry Bertozzi Sorry to post this here. I am looking for Mr.Terry Bertozzi. Terry-san, Konnichiwa! I would like to talk over TC with you. The matter is the distribution of a few Utrics to Australian Utric.fans by using your in-vitro technique. I know that some TC specialists exist in your country. However, to be a Utric.fan in them is only you. I don't know your current e-mail address. Please contact me! Kind regards Isao [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:43:39 -0500 Subject: Biggest species of the petiolaris complex? Anybody know what the largest species belonging to the petiolaris complex is? Ive got 2 plants of what I think are derbyensis and, though only less than a year old, they're each about 4" wide. I just put them in the same pot to try to stunt their growth as I am running out of room! (Sure wish I had a greenhouse!!) Matt [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 19:00:55 -0500 Subject: D.burkeana wanted Looking for seed of the true D.burkeana. Prefer seed of plants from the Chimanimani Mt.s but will take whatever I can get. "D.sp.Chimanimani Mt.s" was determined to be a form of natalensis. I've got this and dont need any more of it. For a pic of what I'm after, see: http://www.mcef.ep.usp.br/carnivoras/Photos/Genera/Drosera/natalensis__burkeana_Chimanimani_09_1997.jpg Happy growing Matt [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: JWi5770869@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:14:55 EST Subject: Silicone Dear All, Everyone picked up on the harmful additives in the 'industrial' silicones that were mentioned.However if you want one of the fish/ pet/ plant friendly silicones then try a good aquarium store for supplies, and ask for advice.However, I dont know what prices are like in the USA , but here in the UK the aquarium grade sealant works out as quite expensive. I have heard it said that the industrial sealants aren't as strong as the aquarium grade sealants, hence their non recommendation as aquarium sealants. John Wilden Southport Lancs. UK ################### From: "Susan Farrington" Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:31:04 -0600 Subject: Silica sand I went to my local Home Depot yesterday to buy a couple of bags of white silica sandblasting sand for potting up a bunch of carnivorous plants, and was told that Home Depot no longer carries the stuff, as it causes cancer! I know, of course, that the stuff is dangerous when one is sandblasting with it, and that if you're dumb enough not to use proper protection when blasting, it will get into your lungs and certainly mess you up big time. But many things are dangerous if used incorrectly! And ALL sand is silica in it... the white stuff is just more pure. So shall they eliminate play sand, too, as dangerous? I started to panic anyway, wondering what I will use to pot my cp's if silica sand disappears off the market, but fortunately I found the same brand of sand at a local lumber store. I asked them if they'd heard anything about it being banned, and they said no, that probably Home Depot just doesn't want to carry it. I guess it's one more result of our litigious society! Anyone else know anything about this? Susan Farrington Missouri Botanical Garden P.O. Box 299 St. Louis MO 63166-0299 susan.farrington@mobot.org (314)577-9402 ################### From: Michael Feddersen Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:46:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: Old N. merrilliana seed Hello, I was a little overwhelmed by the response for seed. Don't worry there is a business size envelope stuffed full of seed that I will divide into packets. If you have or will e-mail me requesting seed I'll send you some but I am going to have to ask that everyone wanting the free old 10/05/96 N. merrilliana seed to send me a SASE with enough postage or irc equivilent. Mail it to Tom Kahl/Nepenthes Club at 8219 South 130th Street, Seattle,WA 98178-4945 USA. Good luck getting it to sprout in culture. Truly, Tom Kahl/Nepenthes Club ################### From: j.dewitte@t-online.de Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:28:16 +0100 (MET) Subject: seek Sorry to abuse the list, but I tried to e-mail Tom Kahl and got thrown out. Tom, do you have another e-mail address? If not, my snail mail is Jean-Pierre De Witte Oststrasse 8 D77866 Rheinau Germany mailto: j.dewitte@t-online.de Time: 20:26:30 http://www.jeandewitte.de This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- ################### From: Gallep@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:39:21 EST Subject: GFP: New address of the homepage The homepage of GFP (Carnivorous Plant Society for the German-speaking Area) has got a new address: http://www.carnivoren.org The email-addresses of GFP have also changed. ...gfp.org has to be replaced by ... carnivoren.org. Please be so kind to update your files and links. Yours Frank Gallep ################### From: "Fernando Rivadavia-Lopes" Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 01:02:04 -0200 Subject: Neblina weddings Dear "E.T.", >One team, then a second one, etc and now a wedding ! For when a funfair or a moovie with >indiana johns ? I was very disapointed when i learnt the discoveries made during the first travel on the >Neblina tepui because i knew it was the begin of the end for this last savage and untouched >ecosystem. Unfortunately, the facts don't reassure me at all. It becomes more and more an up to date >destination. Not far enough. Not expensive enough. It seems that all this is happenning in a general >indifference like if it was the destiny of humans beeing to colonize, destroy and then regret their ancestor's >acts. I guarantee you I wasn't too happy either with the wedding at Neblina (by your compatriots, BTW....). Fortunately Neblina still is WAY too expensive, distant, exausting, and dangerous for most people. Mostly crazy foreigners go there..... :) Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia Sao Paulo, Brazil ################### From: Steve Hinkson Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:58:33 -0800 Subject: Silica and sand "Home Depot no longer carries the stuff, as it causes cancer!" Susan, and others interested: Yes, the silica in sand is not only carcinogenic, but it's also able to cause mechanical lung dysfunction too. Susan, you don't need to ask the CP newsgroup about play-sand, there's a federally mandated hazard warning on every bag. It's only the free dust that poses any threat. Many bags of "play sand" have been pre-washed (hence, the "pre washed play sand" label. *grin*) The warning's still on the bag, because the manufacturer wants to limit liability on the quality of the washing, and the fact that more free silica could have chipped off the sand in transport. Sand isn't dangerous at all, if wet, as in a potted plant. Sand isn't dangerous at all, if periodically washed of the dust. But, Sand, particularly manufactured sand, is very dangerous if handled carelessly before washing. Likely, Home Depot couldn't get the white sand prewashed, and so the employees should wear masks when handling it, and it wasn't all that profitable to begin with. Steve -- "You can easily judge the character of a person by how he treats those who can do nothing for him or to him." Malcolm Forbes Drop by and see me at : http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/6811 ################### From: "Richard Jobson" Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:18:30 +1100 Subject: U. menziesii culture Dear List members, I recently bought some U. menziesii tubers from Allan Lowrie. They are currently at rest and I am wondering if the soil should be dried out a little during this rest period, or better to keep it wet? Is anyone aware of the habitat/soil conditions outside of the flowering/growing season (june - Sept) in Western Australia. Will the tubers rot if left wet? Thanks for any help, Richard. ################### From: Dionaea@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 06:59:57 EST Subject: RE: Silica Sand Susan, I don't know anything about this issue but I just ran out of sand, and need to get some more. Could you tell me what the brand is that you are using? Thanks a bunch. Christoph > I went to my local Home Depot yesterday to buy a couple of bags of > white silica sandblasting sand for potting up a bunch of carnivorous > plants, and was told that Home Depot no longer carries the stuff, as it > causes cancer! I know, of course, that the stuff is dangerous when one > is sandblasting with it, and that if you're dumb enough not to use > proper protection when blasting, it will get into your lungs and > certainly mess you up big time. But many things are dangerous if used > incorrectly! And ALL sand is silica in it... the white stuff is just more > pure. So shall they eliminate play sand, too, as dangerous? > > I started to panic anyway, wondering what I will use to pot my cp's if > silica sand disappears off the market, but fortunately I found the same > brand of sand at a local lumber store. I asked them if they'd heard > anything about it being banned, and they said no, that probably Home > Depot just doesn't want to carry it. I guess it's one more result of our > litigious society! > > Anyone else know anything about this? > > > Susan Farrington > Missouri Botanical Garden > P.O. Box 299 > St. Louis MO 63166-0299 > susan.farrington@mobot.org > (314)577-9402 > ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 07:34:47 -0500 Subject: Re: silica sand Ive always had an impossible time finding "good" sand. What was the brand of this silica sand and does anyone know where I can find some of the same stuff? In the past, all Id seen at Home Depot was play sand or construction sand. I've had to get "pool filter sand", first at a nursery which later closed down and then at a pool supply store. From the results Ive been getting, I'm starting to thnk this sand is not ideal for CP so Ive avoided using sand in my mixes lately. Any suggestions? Can anyone think of why this pool filter sand might not be ideal? I did a pH test and it was either neutral or slightly acidic. Matt usan Farrington" > To: cp@opus.hpl.hp.com > Subject: Silica sand > Message-ID: <200001261327.HAA18627@vitis.mobot.org> > > I went to my local Home Depot yesterday to buy a couple of bags of > white silica sandblasting sand for potting up a bunch of carnivorous > plants, and was told that Home Depot no longer carries the stuff, as it > causes cancer! I know, of course, that the stuff is dangerous when one > is sandblasting with it, and that if you're dumb enough not to use > proper protection when blasting, it will get into your lungs and > certainly mess you up big time. But many things are dangerous if used > incorrectly! And ALL sand is silica in it... the white stuff is just more > pure. So shall they eliminate play sand, too, as dangerous? > > I started to panic anyway, wondering what I will use to pot my cp's if > silica sand disappears off the market, but fortunately I found the same > brand of sand at a local lumber store. I asked them if they'd heard > anything about it being banned, and they said no, that probably Home > Depot just doesn't want to carry it. I guess it's one more result of our > litigious society! > > Anyone else know anything about this? ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:40:07 -0500 Subject: RE: Neblina weddings >Mostly crazy foreigners go there..... :) And a few native (lucky) Brazilians. David ################### From: Rand Nicholson Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:16:54 +0500 Subject: Re:Thoughts on a Maritime Winter Hi All: Thoughts on a Maritime Winter Oh, give me a swamp Where Drosera romp And skeeters and no-see-ums run free. That's where you'll see Me up to my knees In muck and Sarr-a-cen-ee! It is terrible what happens to people that are snowed in, isn't it? Kind Regards, Rand Rand Nicholson Maritime New Brunswick, Canada Zone 5b (Two weeks of snow storms, freezing rain, rain: Snowing again ... Moose are begging door-to-door for blankets, snowshoes & Bic lighters ...) ################### From: "Stefan P. Wolf" Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:12:57 +0100 Subject: carnivorous books > Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:11:29 -0500 > From: "Zach Katz" > Subject: carnivorous books > I'm looking for a name of a good botanist that did some work with > carnivorous plants and that has either a biography or autobiography > out. It could be on some kind of trip someone took or anything just > something in that subject area and that there is a book that one can > pick up at any bookstore. If you have a name that would really help > me out. Thanx. Hi Zach! The only botanists that did work on CP *AND* have a (auto)biography out are Charles Darwin and William Bartram. Not that their books "Insectivorous Plants" and "'TRAVELS THROUGH NORTH AND SOUTH CAROLINA, GEORGIA, EAST AND WEST FLORIDA...'" are available in each and every bookshop but old and new copies are around since 1875/1791 respectively. You mentioned "trip" so if this is some kind of quiz I would say Bartram's travels. (one of the) First to mention Sarrs as CP in this book. I don't know what you were really after but if it's about CP books feel free to ask more or see my website. Best regards, Stefan. -- Dipl.-Inform. Stefan P. Wolf ................................................ mail : Zehlendorfer Str. 69, 24111 Kiel, GERMANY phone: (+49 431) 5973173 * fax: (+49 431) 697568 CP books >> http://www.angelfire.com/de/cpbooks/ ................................................ ################### From: "Steve Klitzing" Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:19:56 PST Subject: Interesting Greenhouse result Hi all: I had an interesting result with my greenhouse, orchids, and CPs. four weeks ago, I was facing a moderate infestation of scale and mites. I chose to give my CPs and orchids a bit of a rest from watering, and harldy watered anything for about a month. The CPs and orchids are fine, having started watering them again. And the scale and mites have largely disappeared. The greenhouse interior has been decently warm at night this winter with a small space heater. Does anyone know why this result occurred? Shouldn't the scale and mites still be giving me a problem? ---Steve Klitzing ################### From: "Charles Redding" Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 18:13:17 PST Subject: Drosera Wanted Hello everyone! I am interested in buying or trading for some Drosera. I am interested in D. filiformis aliciae ditchitoma giant binata multifida extreema gigantea If anyone can help me obtain these I would be very thankful Thanks for your help Charles Redding ################### From: (Howard J. Wu L.Ac) Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:49:57 +0000 Subject: Blasted sand. Silica dust can cause silicosis, a irreversable but totally preventable lung disease, not cancer. What will Home Depo comsummers now use to blast their fenders clean? I used to by small bags of horticultural sand from Thrifty's Drugstore before Bi-Rite bought them out and took it off their selves. This looked like washed beach sand. Lately from a local nursery, I've been using horticultural sand marketed by Uni-gro (Chico, CA.) This looks like washed river sand and has an orange hue rather than a greyish hue of the other commerical horticultural sand I had used before. The first few terrestial utric's I've transplanted into a 50/50 sand/peat mix with this new brand have responded very well indeed. I've seen more vigorous growth and flowers in plants I haven't seen bloom before. I haven't proven this sand to be superior by using tight scientific controls but plan to explore this further. > I went to my local Home Depot yesterday to buy a couple of bags of white >silica sandblasting sand for potting up a bunch of carnivorous plants, >and was told that Home Depot no longer carries the stuff, as it causes >cancer! I know, of course, that the stuff is dangerous when one is >sandblasting with it, and that if you're dumb enough not to use proper >protection when blasting, it will get into your lungs and certainly mess >you up big time. But many things are dangerous if used incorrectly! And >ALL sand is silica in it... the white stuff is just more pure. So shall >they eliminate play sand, too, as dangerous? > > I started to panic anyway, wondering what I will use to pot my cp's if >silica sand disappears off the market, but fortunately I found the same >brand of sand at a local lumber store. I asked them if they'd heard >anything about it being banned, and they said no, that probably Home >Depot just doesn't want to carry it. I guess it's one more result of our >litigious society! > > Anyone else know anything about this? > > Susan Farrington Missouri Botanical Garden P.O. Box 299 St. Louis MO >63166-0299 susan.farrington@mobot.org (314)577-9402 > Howard J. Wu Bishop Ca. mrwu@qnet.com ################### From: Sunpitcher@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 00:57:35 EST Subject: silica sand I still get my sandblasting sand at Lowe's. You might try there. After this recent discussion I may stockpile a few bags in case they decide not to carry it also. Angie Nichols, SC It snowed here Tuesday :) ################### From: Douglas.W.Darnowski@washcoll.edu (Douglas W. Darnowski) Date: 28 Jan 2000 08:19:20 EST Subject: Silica sand As for a source of silica sand, I get mine from a ceramics supplier--Ceramic King of New Mexico. They're on the web. Works fine, and you can buy different grades. Doug Darnowski ################### From: "Michael Hunt" Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:23:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Silica and sand ----- Original Message ----- To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 1:07 AM > > "Home Depot no longer carries the stuff, as it > causes cancer!" > Susan, and others interested: > Yes, the silica in sand is not only carcinogenic, but it's also able to cause > mechanical lung dysfunction too. Susan, you don't need to ask the CP newsgroup > about play-sand, there's > a federally mandated hazard warning on every bag. It's only the free dust that > poses any threat. ...Don't let Home Depot know how dangerous the dust is with the bulk bags of perlite they are selling. The dust associated with perlite can really do some lung damage. ~Mike ################### From: Nicholas Plummer Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:27:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: Nepenthes curtisii A couple of months ago, I asked about the identity of Nepenthes curtisii. Jan explained that it is a synonym of N. maxima, but several people also said that at least one hybrid is floating around the U.S. under that name. It was mentioned that the hybrid is probably N. maxima x N. albomarginata. I have finally taken some photos of my plant labeled "N. curtisii." Upper pitchers only, I'm afraid. The plant originally came from Atlanta Botanic Gardens. Does this look like the putative N. maxima x N. albomarginata, or is it probably some other hybrid? the picture is at: http://www.duke.edu/~nplummer/nepenthes2.html cheers, Nick (digging out in Durham, NC. The Sarracenias are still buried under snow) -------------------- Nicholas Plummer nplummer@duke.edu http://www.duke.edu/~nplummer/ ################### From: "John Green" Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:43:50 -0700 Subject: Re: Silica Sand Susan and others having a hard time finding silica sand... I've been able to buy 50 lb bags of silica sand from a store called Sutherland's, which is mostly a lumber store trying to look like a Home Depot. The service is lousy, the sand is a bit dusty, and it's a bit tough lifting a 50 lb bag of sand into the back of my car (even for a He-Man like me!), but it works fine. I realize that Sutherland's probably isn't in all states (and likely not outside the US), but maybe you could check the stores that aren't just huge chains. If I remember correctly, it was pretty cheap, too, around $5 for the bag, which is only twice what I paid for a 2 lb bag of the same exact stuff at the garden center. John Green Salt Lake City, Utah ################### From: "Paul Edwards" Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:31:16 +1100 Subject: Database Hi all, I'm looking for a computer database program to maintain my CP listings, various work that I've done etc etc etc Has anyone got any ideas? --------------------------------------------- Paul Edwards, Bampton Park, Neerim South, Victoria. Australia. edwards@net2000.com.au --------------------------------------------- ################### From: Paul Temple Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:23:40 +0000 Subject: Re: Database >I'm looking for a computer database program to maintain my CP listings, >various work that I've done etc etc etc >Has anyone got any ideas? As I've said before, I try not to discuss this topic for fear of annoying others - you know who you are :-}. But since you legitimised this mail by asking (thank you, thank you, thank you)... Announcing that the promised software (database) for maintaining any (yes any) plant collection including CP's is now ready. The product is called GENUSTOR. I'm just completing the development of a website so that we can avoid future discussions like this and just point people at it. Meanwhile, here is a brief-ish description with other notes. Before I list any functionality, let me say why I hadn't announced the releae yet. The software was tested by about 30 people including some of the UK's National Collection holders and quite a few CP collectors from around the world. Because of the support from the cP goup and to reflect my relationship with CP societies (my primary plant interest) I have offered the CP societies the first chance to launch the product. In return, I offer a benefit of suport for the society (i.e. my company will give a donation or payment to support the work of the society). I hope the ICPS does not mind me stating here that it's my belief that they have agreed to support GENUSTOR and advertise it. Ther ICPS's ability advertise GENUSTOR will soon be ready, I am told, and on notification I will be supplying them with details. I hope the UK CPS will be similarly interested and look forward to discussions with any member of their committee (hint hint!). However, this is not a CP system per se so other societies (possibly even other CP societies) can also promote GENUSTOR and will gain the same financial benefits as a result. (Oh yes, the testers can look forward to their copies soon.) As to the software, it is Windows complient and runs on Windows 3.1 and 3.1.1, Windows9x, and Windows NT. (WE are looking at a reduced version to run on Windows CE so that you can take your entire Collection List with you on visits to other people or to Garden Centres/Plant Specialists, but this is not present yet. We're happy to receive suggestions for changes/additions from individuals or societies.) GENUSTOR comes complete with a large help file to help with using the software, understanding some aspects of plant collection recording, and some help with botany. The system allows you to select between automatically or manually assigning a unique identifier (called an accession number - any scientifically valid record should assign an accession number) to each record (manual accession numbers can be alphanumeric). The plant name is entered into individual fields for Family, genus (mandatory), species, subspecies, variety and form. Other fields allow entry of Cultivar name and parent names (for hybrids). The system can be set up by the user to default to hybrid or species (non-hybrid) entry. Family name and Genus name can also each be set up to default to preferred values. In ddition or instead, the Family name can be linked to Genus name(s) so that entry of the genus automatically enters the family name. All of this is factory set for Carnivorous Plant and Bromeliad collections. We could add factory settings for other plant groups (e.g. Orchids, Cacti, etc.) on request from an appropriate Plant Society. A unique feature of GENUSTOR is what we term the "name suffix" and it solves a particular problem. Those who read the listserver a lot will possibly have noted the expert comments sometimes made by taxonomists such as Jan Schlauer with regard to the correct naming of plants. In CP this is a particular problem. Take my favourite genus - Pinguicula. Everyone knows of P. moranensis. It happens to represent one of the most poorly named plant types in people's collections. Regrettably, there are more than 30 different plant names that appear, each reputedly a different "type" of P. moranenis. Examples are P. moranensis alba, P. moranensis caudat, P. moranensis mexicana and numerous others, many based on location names. Botanists know that the true name for all (yes all) of them is P. moranensis. There are no current valid types (no subs epecies, no varieties, no forms, no cultivars). But collectors have valid reasons to want to distinguish between plants that are popularly separated by superficial features. The "name suffix" field allows you to record the unscientific bit (e.g. caudata, mexicana, alba, etc.) withjout corrupting the valid name (e.g. P. moranensis). So, with this field you can maintain a scientifically accurate list of your plants yet still maintain the non-scientific part of the name that collectors need. Alternatively, for purists, you can create a record of the name the plant arrived with and then "reidentify" the plant creating a new record using the true scientific name. In GENUSTOR you use a single button click to create the new record and automatically create links between the old and new records. Each record then allows a single mouse click to show the linked record. Another problem solved by GENUSTOR is also very relevent to CPers (and others). Most of us swap plant (OK - no criticism from those I owe plants please - when the weather warms up you'll get everything!). And if you swap plants, you need to swap lists. But two things present a proble, First, if you're swapping pygmy sundews with someone, you don't need to print a list of the whole collection. And secondly, we all like secrets. So sometimes you don't want to include everthing in a list, even if it belongs in the list. So GENUSTOR solves this in two ways. First, you acn assign each plant record to one or more "collections". So, take the example Drosera pygmaea. It's automatically in the collection of Drosera. You acn the create other collection mnames and assign it to them. Examples might be "Carnivorous Plants", "Sundews", "Pygmy Sundews", "Australian Plants", "Plants my friend gave me", etc. These can be scientific or non-scientific groupings but again are very usefull to collectors. You can then create lists (on screen, as data files or printed) by selecting just the collection name. Whether or not you search or create a list in this way, some plants may be "special" and you wont want to publish the fact that you have such a plant (there are several valid reasons for why this might be true). So use the "Sensitivity" box and with a single click, any future listing will not include the records marked as sensitive (until you uncheck the sensitivty field). You can also record as many pseudonyms as you like for a plant. This includes both common names and scientific synonyms. And you can search for records using the current valid scientific name (genus is mandatory but you can incude the species, subspecies, etc. in thesearch criteria), a common name or a synonym. Then there's lots more fields to record things like growing conditions, source details (wild source or commercial) and large free text fields in which you can write what you like. GENUSTOR comes with a complete list of all current plant Family names so you don't need to worry about spelling them! You can add new family names and any Genus name that you wish to use repeatedly. If you set up the Family/Genus link described above, selection of a family will automatically limit the choice of genera to those linked to the Family (a feature we were asked to include). And like most shrink-wrapped software, there's free email support for an initial period. OK. That's a long enough mail to attract some criticism so no more description. Two quotes by separate CP testers are: with regard to content - "GENUSTOR is feature rich" and with regard to use "Hey, this is fun!". I'm trying to decide where to place a trial copy of GENUSTOR so that people interested can get hold of it via FTP. Any advice on this would now be very appreciated, though soon we hope to find our own website will allow FTP. I'm happy to begin sales of GENUSTOR (of course I am!!!) and any sales will count toward the promised support we will give to Societies. Which leads to price. The price will be in the \24330-40 range (excluding postage and packing) which licenses a single user. However, if enough people were interested and a volunteer came forward, I would be willing to offer a discount for a single mass order, probably in the rangle \24320-30. I'm happy to make this really easy - if one person/organisation were to agree to receive all orders and forward on a single payment in US Dollars or UK Pounds, along with a typed list (or sticky lables) of purchasers. We would then mail out the order to each purchaser. I might possibly be able to offer this deal on a geographical basis. If people are interested in this, I need contact from a suitable volunteer (organisation/individual). For the moment, anyone interested in GENUSTOR acn discuss it on any appropriate venue. I'm happy to answer general questions ion this listserver as long as others consider it "on topic". I should not be the one to decide how "on-topic" this is or remains. Alternatively, you can ask me questions by sending email to: paultemple@ecologycal.com My normal email addresses can be used for general email as usual but GENUSTOR related topics will get better attention if addressed as requested. Note that paultemple@ecologycal.domon.co.uk is my normal email address and therefore is different from and not the preferred address for email on GENUSTOR. Sorry for the length of this mail folks. I will announce the website when it's available but that will only be a short notice. Regards Paul ################### From: "Andrew Marshall" Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:38:04 -0800 Subject: N. x Curtisii Hi Nick, Yeah, that is N. x Curtisii alright. N. maxima x N. albomarginata. I have some interesting stories for off-line telling one day concerning that plant. Meanwhile, check inder the peristome of newly opened uppers to see a faint buff coloured ring... the vestiges of N. albomarginata still visible. Best wishes Andrew ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:36:38 -0500 Subject: Quikcrete Sand OK? Just purchased some of Quikcrete's all-purpose fine sand for my precious Drosera. Anyone know if this is OK or not? http://www.quikrete.com/products/sands.htm Matt ################### From: Christer Berglund Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 20:10:24 +0100 Subject: D. peltata question Hi, I have recently tried to grow tuberous drosera for the first time (bicolor, auriculata, peltata). The D. peltata (Madden, WA) germinated within a month and largest of them are now, 8 weeks later, just short of 1/2 " tall. Is the 'WA form' as easily cultivated as the other forms or does it differ in any way? I know that its best to avoid replanting tub's when they are in full growth, but has anyone tried it successfully? BTW, my N. veitchii (Sungai Samba) has finally grown a pitcher with the characteristic flared peristome, what a beauty! Regards, -- Christer Berglund E-mail: christer.berglund@amiga.pp.se ################### From: "Carl Strohmenger (HSC)" Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:24:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Database I use FileMaker Pro (available for both Windows and Mac machines) to maintain all my plant information. It is easy to define or add fields as needed, generate reports, find sub-sets of the whole DB, print reports of the found sub-sets, etc. The manual is straightforward. - Carl On Fri, 28 Jan 2000, Paul Edwards wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm looking for a computer database program to maintain my CP listings, > various work that I've done etc etc etc > > Has anyone got any ideas? > > > --------------------------------------------- > Paul Edwards, > Bampton Park, > Neerim South, Victoria. > Australia. > edwards@net2000.com.au > --------------------------------------------- > > > > ################### From: Tim Malcolm Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 16:27:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: Tips for growing U. volubilis Hi List, I've managed to germinate U. volubilis, but now I'm concerned about what to do next. Is it going to be tricky to keep alive? I've read through some old cp-digests from the mid 90s and it sounds like Barry Meyers-Rice had successfully germinated and cultivated this species, and I imagine others have too. Are there any utric experts out there who could give me some advice? Thanks. ------------------------ Tim Malcolm malcol01@camosun.bc.ca ################### From: "sundew" Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 15:53:19 +1100 Subject: Dionaea muscipula double petioles and traps Dear fellow cpers I am wondering as to what is the best option for the following. I have a _Dionaea muscipula_ that has decided to put out a double trap, as well as a double petiole, splitting in two towards the trap's apex. The latest growth to emerge has not shown any present continuation. I want to take leaf cuttings of both petioles, and would like to know when is the best way to ensure a good take rate. Another thing, has the D.m.f. clam been given a proper varietal name, as well as any others? Will there be a review of all forms eg. dentate, banded, so as to ensure proper identification and preservation? The _Sarracenias_ got their's, so how about the ambassador to cp's? Regards Nathan J. Clemens sundew@mitmania.net.au Bowral NSW Australia "Clouds bursting in a perfect sky, open up and drench these thirsty souls..." [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: Paul Temple Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:52:26 +0000 Subject: Re: GENUSTOR - price got corrupted Just to restate the approxmate prices (we're negotiating specifics with the Societies). In my earlier mail the UK pound sign got corrupted and reinterpreted so making the price range unintelligable. We anticipate we will sell GENUSTOR in the price range of 30 - 40 UK pounds which translates as a price of less than 60 US Dollars. Were a bulk purchase to be requersted as described in the earlier mail, there would be a one off reduction in price (subject to sufficient orders). Sorry to write again on this, but several people have asked for this info. Regards Paul ################### From: Nicholas Plummer Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 08:35:11 -0500 Subject: Nepenthes x Curtisii Andrew Marshall wrote: >Yeah, that is N. x Curtisii alright. N. maxima x N. albomarginata. I >have some interesting stories for off-line telling one day concerning that >plant. > Meanwhile, check inder the peristome of newly opened uppers to see a >faint buff coloured ring... the vestiges of N. albomarginata still visible. I had wondered about that ring. It gets hidden when the peristome folds down, so I wasn't sure if it was evidence of the parentage or just my imagination. Thanks for the confirmation. Next question: Is N. x Curtisii a valid hybrid name under the ICPS rules of nomenclature, or is it forbidden since it is also a synonym of N. maxima? cheers, Nick ------------------------- Nicholas Plummer nplummer@duke.edu http://www.duke.edu/~nplummer/ ################### From: Steven Stewart Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:59:14 -0500 Subject: Quickrete To Matt concerning Quickrete sand. I use "playsand" which is produced by Quickrete, mixed with two parts Canadian Sphagnum peat, for my Drosera traycii, regia and hamiltonii. I also have great success with Sarracenia and Cephalotus in the same mix. I live in Florida but would think any product claiming to be "all purpose", (which playsand also claims) should give you similar results to mine. I use RO filtered water, which is very soft and has a pH of 5.5. I also top dress my mix with live moss when growing large species, just my 2 cents. Take care, Steven Stewart Sanford, Fl USA ################### From: Steven Stewart Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:19:06 -0500 Subject: Two headed flytrap To Nathan on leaf propagation of VFTs. I have several plants I propagated from a plant with two, two headed leaves and one three headed leaf, this last summer. I simply uprooted the plant, carefully removing all potting material. I then pealed the deformed (or possibly futuristic) leaves, with white basal material attached from the rhizome, and placed them in live Sphagnum. In a couple of months numerous small traps began to emerge. It is important to keep the Sphagnum from over-growing the small plants. I'm certain there are people doing tissue culture that may have a more scientific, sterile technique than mine, and I am not sure the abnormality will come out with my method (the small plants look normal). Take care, Steven Stewart Sanford, Fl USA ################### From: Ivan Snyder Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:13:21 -0800 Subject: Heliamphora sp.? Hi Cpers, Last year I aquired about 100 wild collected seed of Heliamphora which was collected by a group of CP nuts who climbed Mount Neblina. The seed was a mix of both H. neblina and tatei. I sowed these all together on live Sphagnum and refrigerated them for one month. I then took them out of the frige and put them under my light system and germination began after another few weeks. I had many sprout but most of these either died and got moldy or got moldy and died. Four seedlings continued to grow. One of the four had distinctly larger seed leaves to begin with and grew much better, the rest barely grew at all. I kept the best one for myself and gave the other three genetic liabilities to other growers. Now, almost one year later, my one plant has pitchers one inch tall. I had grown Heliamphorae from seed before and am sure that this one plant grew far better than any others. This plant is also very red. I was told that H. minor has much red coloration, but the seed was not taken from that species. To account for my seedling's superior growth and deeper color I have an idea that possibly it is a natural hybrid. Botanist Phil Sheridan has reported that natural Sarracenia hybrids have more anthocyanin red. Perhaps hybrid vigor gives the plant better growth? Maybe in another year when I see the mature pitcher shape I will be able to positively identify the plant. It will be years before the plant is large enough to propagate, so please don't ask. My friend Ed Read wants to start it invetro in that far future. Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ################### From: "Fred C. Heller" Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 20:18:48 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: Two headed flytrap This kind of abnormality is actually very interresting as it shows a genetic modification of the plant. I am interrested in knowing if all traps function properly on those VFTs. Since it has mutated the seeds should carry the same genetic message as the parent plant, so that every so many offspring , one will come out with double or treble headed leafs. I would be interrested in obtaining one of the small plants you separated from them or a leaf cutting. Fred At 08:17 30/01/2000 -0800, you wrote: >To Nathan on leaf propagation of VFTs. I have several plants I >propagated from a plant with two, two headed leaves and one three headed >leaf, this last summer. I simply uprooted the plant, carefully removing >all potting material. I then pealed the deformed (or possibly >futuristic) leaves, with white basal material attached from the rhizome, >and placed them in live Sphagnum. In a couple of months numerous small >traps began to emerge. It is important to keep the Sphagnum from >over-growing the small plants. I'm certain there are people doing tissue >culture that may have a more scientific, sterile technique than mine, >and I am not sure the abnormality will come out with my method (the >small plants look normal). >Take care, >Steven Stewart >Sanford, Fl USA > > ################### From: Tim Williams Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:09:46 +0900 Subject: Silica sand Dear CP growers, The topic of hazards associated with silica sand and other silica gardening products is one that crops up periodically in lists such as ours. I've posted this message before (a few years back...?), regarding the silica hazard. Whilst silica dust ("any" dust) is worth ovoiding, the real damage occurs not from bags of sand from shops used periodically by plant enthusiasts, but when mining and particularly when cutting through silicaceous rock. Freshly cut (or crushed) silica is very reactive, and micron-sized particles find their way deep into the lungs. The fresh, reactive particle then proceeds to react with lung tissue, perhaps initiating silicosis. However, once the dust is wet or "aged", the exposed bonds become attached to water (hydroxyl groups) and render the silica much less harmful. This takes place naturally (in moist air) over a few hours. If you are worried about handling silica containing products, you have only to wet the stuff before handling it, and of course wash freshly purchased material to remove the ultrafine hazardous particles. Storing the sand slightly damp is probably the best way, as is wearing a face-mask. Plantsmen have after all been using silica sand for centuries, but never handling it dry (I guess....) Tim Williams, Tokyo Japan. [V-Card file tim.williams.vcf deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "John W" Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:39:09 -0500 Subject: germinating Ping. seeds Hi, I'm only a CP beginner but am about to receive some seeds of Ping. Lutea and Ping. Primulifolia, I think both originated from Florida. Could someone give me some advice on how to germinate them, and how long it would take for them to get to blooming size. Your help is much appreciated. John W Toronto Canada ################### From: "Richard Jobson" Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:06:43 +1100 Subject: Genlisea aurea growth Hi, Anyone with stubborn little plants of Genlisea aurea could try submersing the pot. I tried this and the plants took off immediately. I suspect that they may be semi-aquatic in habit (Fernando should know). It will be great when the full monograph comes out for this amazing Genus, does anyone know anything about this work? Richard. ################### From: (Howard J. Wu L.Ac) Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:54:30 +0000 Subject: Turions U. australis At the end of last year I collect about two dozen turions of U. australis growning in a tub outside. These I have stored in my fridge. (4'C) Recently I noticed they all started to open. This has me very concern as it is snowing outside and don't know what I should do with them. These turions were to be my next year outdoor growing stock. This strain orginally came from Dr. Ademec (Czech Republic) as turions in Nov.98 and winter over last year ok in the same fridge. I have a little U. australis saved over from fall growing in an aquarium. But they are very stunted compared to outdoor cultivation. The scores of U. Bremi turions I have in the same fridge still look find. Heard of other plants species breaking dormancy mysteriously as if plants collective intuition knew something. Howard J. Wu Bishop Ca. mrwu@qnet.com ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:56:47 Subject: Re: Dionaea muscipula double petioles and traps Dear Nathan, > Another thing, has the D.m.f. clam been given a > proper varietal name, as well as any others? I do not know what you mean with "D.m.f." (I suppose from the context you mean some _Dionaea muscipula_ form/s). > Will there be a review of all forms eg. dentate, banded, so as > to ensure proper identification and preservation? Some descriptions of new _Dionaea_ cultivars have been submitted for publication in CPN recently, and you will see them published soon. I am not sure if this will cover all plants you know but some of the names crrently in "informal" use will indeed be registered as cultivar names. Kind regards Jan ################### From: bruce dudley Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 03:27:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: Flytrap leaves Hi All, The abnormalities being discussed here concerning the double traps have been discussed for some time, now. I remember having plants send up the odd leaf from time to time. However, there are more environmental conditions that produce these leaves than genetic. In genetically altered plants the condition will happen in the majority of leaves (all the leaves, even). What people are saying in these messages sound more environmentally induced -- sudden increases or decreases in light, changes in watering patterns, wide fluxuations in humidity levels, and/or wide changes in heat. The odd leaf won't signify anything. In one message, the grower discussed peeling off a leaf, rooting it, and all the traps produced were normal! When someone produces a plant where all the traps are double, and this plant produces seeds where there are plants which carry on the trait I will change my idea and agree that these are genetic alterations. A question asked about the trap quality: My plants' leaves didn't function well. The double trap doesn't seem to have the same hydropressure in the mid-stem of the trap. Therefore, from the standpoint of trapping ability the "double trap" plant would not survive as well as the "single trap" plant. A natural selection mechanism that helps explain the rarity we are discussing. When plantlets are produced on the flower scape, same deal.... Usually, fluxuations in water/humidity will create plantlets on the flower scape. Sorry, guys. Environment fools us, sometimes. Bruce Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ################### From: schlauer@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:26:16 +0000 Subject: Re: "Nepenthes x Curtisii" Dear Nick & al., > Next question: Is N. x Curtisii a valid hybrid name under the ICPS > rules of nomenclature, The ICPS does not have its own rules of nomenclature but it applies the rules of two other clubs, viz. the IAPT (International Association for Plant Taxonomy) that issues the ICBN (International Code of Botanical Nomenclature) applicable to the scientific naming of taxa (usually wild growing plants), and the ISHS (International Society for Horticultural Science) that issues the ICNCP (International Code for the Nomenclature of Cultivated Plants) applicable to the naming of cultivated plants. The ICPS strives after the universal application of both codes as far as names of carnivorous plants (both wild and cultivated) are concerned. > or is it forbidden since it is also a synonym of N. maxima? Nothing is forbidden in nomenclature. There is only a set of things that should be avoided because they violate rules that many wise persons have agreed upon. Breaking the rules does (most unfortunately ;-)) not render the malefactor liable to punishment, it rather punishes all the others who obey the rules, because it promotes confusion. The use of the name _N. curtisii_ (never with an upper case initial "C": this is a Latin epithet for a taxon, not a cultivar!) for a hybrid is violating the rules because the plant described initially under this name was a non-hybrid plant belonging to what is interpreted by most authors as _N. maxima_. _N. curtisii_ is based on another type, so the two names are taxonomic synonyms (according to the interpretation of taxonomists) but not nomenclatural (by rules laid down in one of the codes of nomenclature) ones. Formally, _N. curtisii_ is a *valid* name, but it is considered a later synonym of another valid name, viz. _N. maxima_, and it is therefore *not accepted* by most authors. This does, however, not mean that the name _N. curtisii_ is now "free" for the naming of other plants (e.g. hybrids). It must remain what it was originally, i.e. a synonym of _N. maxima_. There is no valid simple (i.e. non-formula) epithet for the hybrid _N. maxima_ * _N. albomarginata_at the moment. The name "N. albomax", however tempting it might be, was never validated by a published description. This is the reason why this name is illegitimate (it is a nomen nudum). Furthermore, this epithet would violate Recommendation H.10A.1 of the ICBN (but this alone would not be a sufficient reason to reject the name). The bottom line is, do not use the name _N. curtisii_ (neither with nor without a multiplication symbol) for any hybrid. Use the hybrid formula instead. Kind regards Jan ################### From: BestBiz2000@CJUH.bigfoot.com Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:50:38 GMT Subject: How To Make Money On Internet ? Are you ready to make money on the Internet? Do you want to find something new that REALLY works? Do you want to start doing business globally in the next 48 hours without making a large financial investment? Do you have a New Year's resolution to change things in your life.....more money, new car, new house? If you answered YES to any of the above questions, we have the solution for you! You can be an Internet Tycoon in the next 48 hours. You can start making money immediately. NO Gimmicks -- NO MLM! This is a REAL business opportunity! Join other entepreneurs who have enrolled in our program and are doing business. You can work your own hours .... there's no limit to your income! For FREE information about this unique opportunity that some have said is the "best opportunity on the Internet" send us an e-mail by clicking on the link below ..... You have nothing to lose but EVERYTHING TO GAIN! mailto:ToMakeMoney@bigfoot.com?subject=IWantMoreInfoAboutTheOffer ************************************************************************ If you don't want to receive messages about our business opportunity, please click on the link below and we will remove you from our database. mailto:RemoMe_TheKing@bigfoot.com?subject=REMOVEMENOW ################### From: Bill Tribe Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:18:08 +0000 Subject: Heliamphora sp. Ivan, In reply to your question, there are some aspects of your message which are seemingly incorrect, though to be fair this area is a confused one and I've probably misunderstood! > Last year I aquired about 100 wild collected seed of Heliamphora >which was collected by a group of CP nuts who climbed Mount Neblina. The >seed was a mix of both H. neblina and tatei. I sowed these all together H. neblina does not exist - this is one of those picky taxonomic points I know, but as of the last strict publication that I'm aware of, it was reclassified as a var. of H. tatei - i.e. H. tatei var. neblinae. Now, this is still a contentious point - H. tatei var. tatei (which only exists on mountains further much further north, close to the Mt. Duida complex, and not near Mt. Neblina itself) seems to be a quite distinct plant; however, some would say it is correct to call the two a variety, others argue that its geographical separation means they should be classified as subspecies, still others say they are distinct species. Many authors also ignore this, which is annoying, and simply refer to the southern plants as H. neblinae. However, whichever way you want to look at it, it isn't the case that BOTH H. tatei and H. neblinae were collected from Neblina in the recent expedition. The true position is itself very confusing. The adventurers who went off to Neblina report that the H. tatei var. neblinae populations on the mountain were extremely variable; there was not an obvious "type" specimen amongst them. If you go to Andreas Wistubas website you can get an idea of this, he has published a few of his photos and you'll soon get the idea. In addition, they also found what looks like a new species, which they call H. sp. Neblinae - maybe this is the one you're referring to above when you say that you have "both" types of seed? (hence my statement above about misunderstandings!). This was quite different to the other plants on Neblina, and also the northern H. tatei variety. As far as identifying the plant goes, this may take a while, and may have to wait until the numerous culture lines already started from the collected seeds find their way into collections. The issue of Heliamphora taxonomy is itself a very confused one, due in no small part to the isolation of the tepuis in Venezuela, and the very few people that have explored them. This is as true of the eastern species (from the Roraima-Ilu range) as it is of the new Western Neblina plants! Bill Tribe Cambridge UK. ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 07:59:38 -0500 Subject: re: Heliamphora sp Hi Ivan, I'm thinking the 3/4 Heliamphora seedlings you had which stayed small might have been inferior clones but the one youve got which is now 1" high might be large because tatei and neblineae are larger plants relative to the other Heliamphoras youmight have experience with. In other words, I'm not sure that what you have is a superior clone - it might just be a normal grower. As to the mold which killed the majority of the seedlings, did you try using any fungicide on the seed / seedlings? Also, do you really think stratification was necessary with these? When we spoke a while back regarding germination, it seemed like you were stratifying even species which I would never even consider stratifying. On a similar note, I hear Fernando's got one of Lowrie's new Heliamphora germinating techniques to tell us about - it greatly improves viability over time. I'm pretty anxious to hear more! Matt > From: Ivan Snyder > Hi Cpers, > > Last year I aquired about 100 wild collected seed of Heliamphora > which was collected by a group of CP nuts who climbed Mount Neblina. The > seed was a mix of both H. neblina and tatei. I sowed these all together > on live Sphagnum and refrigerated them for one month. I then took them > out of the frige and put them under my light system and germination began > after another few weeks. I had many sprout but most of these either died > and got moldy or got moldy and died. Four seedlings continued to grow. > > One of the four had distinctly larger seed leaves to begin with and grew > much better, the rest barely grew at all. I kept the best one for myself > and gave the other three genetic liabilities to other growers. Now, > almost one year later, my one plant has pitchers one inch tall. I had > grown Heliamphorae from seed before and am sure that this one plant grew > far better than any others. This plant is also very red. > > I was told that H. minor has much red coloration, but the seed was not > taken from that species. To account for my seedling's superior growth and > deeper color I have an idea that possibly it is a natural hybrid. > Botanist Phil Sheridan has reported that natural Sarracenia hybrids have > more anthocyanin red. Perhaps hybrid vigor gives the plant better growth? > Maybe in another year when I see the mature pitcher shape I will be able > to positively identify the plant. > > It will be years before the plant is large enough to propagate, so please > don't ask. My friend Ed Read wants to start it invetro in that far > future. > > Ivan Snyder > Hermosa Beach > California ################### From: "Susan Farrington" Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 07:15:08 -0600 Subject: Silica sand brand The brand name on the sandblasting sand I purchase is something like Unicin, I believe. (I don't have a bag here in front of me to look at.) It's a tan paper bag with blue on it. > Susan, > I don't know anything about this issue but I just ran out of sand, and > need to get some more. Could you tell me what the brand is that you > are using? > > Thanks a bunch. > Christoph Susan Farrington Missouri Botanical Garden P.O. Box 299 St. Louis MO 63166-0299 susan.farrington@mobot.org (314)577-9402 ################### From: "Stefan P. Wolf" Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:46:32 +0100 Subject: Re: Two headed flytrap Hi Fred! > This kind of abnormality is actually very interresting as it shows > a genetic modification of the plant. [...] > Since it has mutated the seeds should carry the same genetic message > as the parent plant, so that every so many offspring , one will come > out with double or treble headed leafs. I fear your idea of mutation and genetic code is a fellacy here. If your hair turns white from a shock or you get female features from eating too much hormone fed chicken that's nothing you could forward to your kids. As far as I know these "mutations" are mere stress syndromes which are very common in repotted, over/underfed, dry, plented to bad soil etc. VFTs. Spontaneous or excessively frequent flowering is another stress syndrome. Best regards, Stefan. -- Dipl.-Inform. Stefan P. Wolf ................................................ mail : Zehlendorfer Str. 69, 24111 Kiel, GERMANY phone: (+49 431) 5973173 * fax: (+49 431) 697568 CP books >> http://www.angelfire.com/de/cpbooks/ ................................................ ################### From: Hayes7@aol.com Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:07:38 EST Subject: Specimen plants of N. clipeata up for auction If commercial posts bother you, please exercise your delete finger now :) _____________________________________________________________ Nepenthes Enthusiasts in the USA, We are going to auction two mature plants of N. clipeata. Please visit this link to see a photo supplied by our vendor: http://tcscs.com/~thayes/photos/clipeata_dp.jpg The plant in the photo is 16" wide. The two plants up for auction (12"-14") don't have mature pitchers yet, but if grown in a suitable environment, will in a few months. The starting price is $200, plus express shipping ($25 flat rate, per plant). Send e-mail with your bid to: hayes7@aol.com. If this sounds high, consider that 2 1/2 - 3" wide plants of N. hamata are going for $125, and the N. clipeata are three years old, and over a foot wide. Instant Gratification! The auction will end Monday, Feb the 7th. All those who bid will be notified daily of the two highest bids to date, and you can bid again at any time. We usually don't offer mature plants, so don't miss out. They will make fantastic additions to any serious nepenthes grower's collection. Thomas Hayes DANGEROUS PLANTS ################### From: "Adao Pereira" Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:51:50 -0000 Subject: Re: Genlisea aurea growth Hi Richard & all! I'm having good success in growing Genlisea hispidula almost as an aquatic plant: I use no pot at all, I just put the plants floating in a piece of styrofoam (with a piece of live sphagnum to help). The plants stay almost completely submerged (only the ends of the leaves are outside the water). This way I can see the traps growing in the water. Well. It's just an idea. It worked for me. They flowered very soon and grew very well. Miguel ################### From: Phil Wilson Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:25:20 +0000 Subject: Re: D. peltata question Hi, > >I have recently tried to grow tuberous drosera for the first time >(bicolor, auriculata, peltata). The D. peltata (Madden, WA) germinated >within a month and largest of them are now, 8 weeks later, just short of >1/2 " tall. Is the 'WA form' as easily cultivated as the other forms or >does it differ in any way? > Personally speaking I've had no success with the WA form of D. peltata but don't let this put you off! As far as I'm aware it differs in being generally less robust and grows shorted than the eastern Australian (and plants from other locations) form. From photos in Lowrie's book the plant also has a reddish tinge. >I know that its best to avoid replanting tub's when they are in full >growth, but has anyone tried it successfully? > Yes, in general this is not a problem and in some cases is preferable to transplanting while dormant. Generally speaking tuberous Drosera have a very rudimentary root system so seem to cope with disturbance well. I have both sent and received plants in full growth with little or no problems. The upright and fan leafed species tend to be easier to transplant because it is easier to make sure the soil is firmed around the plants. Rosetted species are less easy in this respect. You obviously need to be careful to avoid damaging the stolon where it emerges from the tuber. Damage to the green portion of the plant does not normally cause a problem since the plant will re-grow from side buds. You also need to make sure the plant is planted at approximately the same depth. Regards, Phil Wilson Email: cp@pwilson.demon.co.uk ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 09:57:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: Web Ring Hey Folks, I just noticed a site at: http://www.linklane.com/p/plants.htm Which lists a large number of web sites on the web ring. Obviously the people who run this web site used the web ring to grab a number of sites for their list of links. A prime example of the web ring getting people higher profiles for their web sites. Nifty. Later! Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: osito@intraweb.cl (Jose Gengler L.) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:17:17 -0400 Subject: foot candles to lumens Hi! I have been looking at James and Patricia Pietropaolo's book entitled "Carnivorous Plants of the World". It is a very technical, sinthetic, and full of wise advises. Units come both in metric and american systems. I am very glad I bought that book. But one thing has got my attention. They measure luminosity in foot candles, a unit they say is widespread. All the literature I have been reviewing measures luminosity in lumens. I don't know the relationship between these two units. I supose it is not a linear relatinship. I would greatly appreciate if someone shares a conversion formula. Thnks, ################### From: osito@intraweb.cl (Jose Gengler L.) Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:17:17 -0400 Subject: CPs in Chile Hi! I don't know if you guys remember my project. I have been trying to introduce cps in Chile (some that are not found at all in my country, and others that maybe I would find but at the price of possible echological damage or very hard trips to the extremes and mountains of this place of the world). The paperwork has been so hard (since Chile has very strict phitosanitary regulations due to the fact that it is isolated as an island from certain pests), that I have been trying to do this for about a year or more, and sometimes I lost hope. That's why I lost contact with the list, but I would very gladly welcome if you write to me so we can begin to write again. The species that I try to cultivate mostly from seed to minimize paperwork include Drosera, vft, Utricularia and Sarracenia, all temlate climate varieties. I also have Red Dragon vft living plant. I started using a 120 x 40 x 30 cm terrarium (length, height, depth) under controlled conditions. Here in Chile now we are in summer, temperatures in the terrarium rangeing from 20 to 35\272C. Humidity inside it is 40 to 60%. Luminosity is achieved using fluorescent tubes that add up to about 1500 lumens at the pot surface. The setup is working just about one week and I already have two Drosera seedlings, and the vft plant has its first tiny chilean fytraps developed. No pests are aparent so far. Material was obtained from Cook's Carnivorous Plants via airmail, very well packed. Thanks to all of you that shared knowledge and experience with me all this time. I am very happy to be aboard again. Take care, ################### From: Phil Wilson Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:48:16 +0000 Subject: Re: germinating Ping. seeds Hi, >Hi, I'm only a CP beginner but am about to receive some seeds of Ping. Lutea >and Ping. Primulifolia, I think both originated from Florida. Could someone >give me some advice on how to germinate them, and how long it would take for >them to get to blooming size. Your help is much appreciated. > Both these seeds should germinate easily with little or no problems. Simply sprinkle the seeds onto pots of soil - use a mix of about 50/50 peat and fine sand. The seeds are very fine so there is no need to cover them - at least I've never done so. You should get germination within about six weeks assuming a minimum temperature of about 15C. Transplant the seedlings once they have developed several leaves into individual pots. You should be able to get them to flowering size in about two years though I have had plants flowering after just one year. Regards, Phil Wilson Email: cp@pwilson.demon.co.uk ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:11:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: U. volubilis Hi Nathan, Good luck on your U. volubilis. Note that it is an affixed aquatic. Once you get it established, raise the water table a bit so the plant is always under about 1cm of water. Then it will be very happy. It reproduces by sending horizontal stolons several cm which then pop up as a new plant. But it is by no means weedy. Watch it carefully. Leaf cuttings work, but this is not easy to do since the leaves are perhaps 1 cm or so long, and are threadlike. Keep me posted on this, I'd like to hear your progress. Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 10:15:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: database software >I'm looking for a computer database program to maintain my CP listings, >various work that I've done etc etc etc >Has anyone got any ideas? Hey Paul E., Lots of CPers use software they've customised to track their CP collections (access, filemaker), but I strongly encourage those with substantial collections to consider Paul Temple's software project (Genustor). I've beta-tested this program and it is really excellent. Paul has put a lot of really nice bells and whistles on the program which make it extremely useful. A benefit of beta-testing is that I got a freebie copy of the program. I use it and like it. That's the bottom line, I suppose. Barry --------------------- Dr. Barry Meyers-Rice bazza@sarracenia.com Carnivorous Plant FAQ--author www.sarracenia.com/faq.html Carnivorous Plant Newsletter--editor www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: Tom Massey Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:45:17 -0500 Subject: Nepenthes- unusual trap production Hey all, I have an unusual situation that involves several different Neps. Instead of producing a trap at the end of the tendril, I have a few leaves on plants that are producing an elongated tendril that terminates in a spray of 4-6 finely divided hairs. This has recently happened to two or three Neps, different species in different growing conditions. Anyone seen this before? Tom in Fl. ################### From: "Kamil Pasek" Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:18:18 +0100 Subject: ALDROVANDA VESICULOSA AND EUROPEAN AQUATIC UTRICULARIA SPECIES from Lubomir Adamec ALDROVANDA VESICULOSA AND EUROPEAN AQUATIC UTRICULARIA SPECIES FOR SALE Institute of Botany in Trebon, Czech Republic, offers for sale: A) Aldrovanda vesiculosa turions for CP growers, scientific or Nature Conservation organizations, for cultivation or (re)introduction activities. The plants from East Poland are cultivated outdoors. They will be sent by post mail, as turions enclosed in a tiny PE tube, from November to May. Price: 5 USD (or 9 DEM)/turion + postage 6 USD (or 11 DEM); minimum order: 10 turions; any order over 50 turions: price 3 USD/turion (or 6 DEM). For the cultivation instructions see the paper by L. Adamec (1997): "How to grow Aldrovanda vesiculosa outdoors" in the special issue of CPN 26: 85-88. The instructions may be sent on request. B) Australian (sub)tropical Aldrovanda vesiculosa plants for indoor cultivation. As dependent on light conditions these plants can be red. Plants from an indoor culture of three Australian populations are available (they are probably the same): a) Subtropical: East-coast Australia, S. of Sydney, NSW; b) Tropical: S. of Darwin, NT. c) Tropical: Kimberley, NW Australia, WA. The Australian plants grow over the whole year at temperatures above 18 oC and do not form turions. At lower temperatures, they form weakly dormant turions. In temperate regions, they may also be grown outdoors over summer season. Apical segments ca. 4 cm long are sent by post mail in plastic vials or tubes, from March to November, when outdoor temperature is above 5 oC. Price: 8 USD (or 15 DEM)/plant + postage 6 USD (or 11 DEM); minimum order (regardless of the populations): 4 plants. C) Turions of European temperate aquatic Utricularia species for outdoor cultivation: U. australis, U. vulgaris, U. minor, U. bremii, U. intermedia, U. ochroleuca. Turions are sent by post mail in tiny PE tubes, from November to June. Price: 2 USD (or 4 DEM)/turion + postage 6 USD (or 11 DM); minimum order (regardless of the species): 10 turions. D) Plants or dormant turions of Utricularia dimorphanta. U. dimorphanta is an aquatic Japanese endemic species, formerly growing on the whole Honshu island (subtropical to warm temperate climate), but is critically endangered recently. Growing of this species is the same as that of Australian Aldrovanda. However, it prefers more shade and temperatures >20 oC. Apical segments ca. 4 cm long or turions are sent by post mail in plastic vials or tubes, at above zero temperatures for the whole year. Price: 8 USD (or 15 DEM)/plant or turion + postage 6 USD (or 11 DEM). Minimum order: 4 plants or turions. Limited amount of this species is available. Invoice will be sent by the Institute of Botany. Payment should be realised as personal money order or direct sending the due sum in cash, in registered letter to the below address. Checks or cards are not acceptable. Payment in advance, prior to sending the plants is required. Contact address: Lubomir ADAMEC Institute of Botany, Dukelska 135, CZ-379 82 TREBON, Czech Republic tel.+420-333-721156; fax -721136; E-mail adamec@butbn.cas.cz ################### From: "Basicarmen" Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:14:27 +0100 Subject: research Hello I am a little disappointed mailing list after many advertisements nobody does not answer me I am thus always in the search of seeds of genlisea it does not matter the kind because I do not have any I little to make exchanges proposed that you seek and one will see for the exchange while waiting for your news! so long Thierry [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "PHILIP SHERIDAN" Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:19:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Aldrovanda Hi Folks: We have some excellent news to announce about some students we have been mentoring at Meadowview. Mike Miller and John Polifko, of Hayfield High School, won the Blue Ribbon, 1st place, in Botany Team Projects and the medal for best project in the Freshmen Class at the Hayfield Science Fair in Fairfax, VA. Their project was on "The Effects of Boric Acid on the Aquatic Carnivorous Plant Aldrovanda vesiculosa". We hope to post the full article on our website within the next month and have the students submit their paper to CPN. By the way, does anyone (Barry?) know the exact TNC Global status for Aldrovanda (G2?). Sincerely, Phil Sheridan Director Meadowview Biological Research Station ################### From: "Fred C. Heller" Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:32:53 +0100 (MET) Subject: no genlisea sorry but I have a few other more usual seeds. anyhow you can find it at cambrian carnivores I'm sure, Peter's got a lot of stuff including those harder to get seeds fred At 13:28 31/01/2000 -0800, you wrote: >Hello I am a little disappointed mailing list after many >advertisements nobody does not answer me I am thus always in the >search of seeds of genlisea it does not matter the kind because I do >not have any I little to make exchanges proposed that you seek and >one will see for the exchange while waiting for your news! so long >Thierry > > >[HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] > > > ################### From: Michael King Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:46:52 -0500 Subject: Sarracenia 'Daniel Rudd' Dear all, Does anyone in the discussion group keep Sarracenia x 'Daniel Rudd' or know of anyone growing it? It seems to have disappeared from UK collections. This is the hybrid cultivar that Adrian Slack mentions in his book 'Insect Eating Plants and how to grow them' Best Regards Mike King See my new Carnivorous Plant Website: http://www.soft.net.uk/newcombe/ssar/homepage.htm ################### From: CPimages Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:11:12 -0600 Subject: Re: Paul Temple's Database Just read about your new CP database program, Paul, and think this might be a great gift for Carl for his birthday next October. He's been wanting do a serious inventory of his plants, and now that he's computer literate.... However, you say "The price will be in the \24330-40 range (excluding postage and packing) which licenses a single user." How much is \24330-40 in American dollars? And what currency is \24330-40 anyway? As for Carl Strohmenger's suggestion of using FileMaker Pro, I use that in my business as a database to keep track of the various industry suppliers and products they offer as well as contact info and additional notes. It's a powerful program and the basic setting up of a simple form to plug in your data is not too difficult to learn, but it isn't real easy or cheap either. That book that comes with it is a thick one. Hadn't thought of using it to set up a CP inventory database for Carl, but it's a great idea. However, frankly, if Paul's program is within the budget of the typical hobbyist CPer, I personally would a lot rather use an existing program that's been beta tested and tweaked and does all the things he describes than to try to spend time and frustration trying to set up one myself. Just my thoughts. Sherry Taylor (Carl's wife) ################### From: "sean donnie madison elkins" Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:42:21 -0800 Subject: World Conference Hello List, I have a question and a concern regarding the ICPS World conference in June of 2000. Why is this limited to only 200 participants? I know the Fort Mason can hold more people than that. Unlike other shows,conferences, be it orchid,garden,etc. this show is excluding the public from attending. I am very sorry to have learned this,as I was very excited to find such a rare event happening in our own back yard. I understand orchid shows and conferences are more diverse than CP shows(hopefully not for long),but when you limit an event to only a few,no sales,except for trading amongst the few,then where are the children,parents,teachers,and all the rest of the thousands that are interested in these plants supposed to go? If it is a World Conference,then let it be just that and not a City Block Conference. Sincerely, Don Elkins [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Richard Jobson" Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:36:14 +1100 Subject: footcandles to lumens Hi Jose, This subject was covered in digests 2066 and 2067 but if you don't have access then basically: a lux = 1 lumen per square meter. A footcandle = 1 lumen per square foot. Therefore 1 foot candle = 10.7 lux and is a measure of illumination. ie how much light you see with your eyes. Richard. ################### From: Dickdove@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 02:29:28 EST Subject: Locations please < Angie Nichols, SC It snowed here Tuesday :) >> All very interesting BUT why don't you good folk say where the heck you all live???? I'm in deepest Berkshire England (UK) & just have not a clue where it is snowing. Would it not be a helpfull idea for everyone to sign off saying where on this planet they reside?? Apologies for delay but my original message was rejected. I since heard that SC stands for Sth. Carolina. So you see we Brits are just as bad with USA geography. However, I still feel that it would be nice to see where you all come from! Cheers, Dick in Berks, UK ################### From: CHAN Sow-Yan Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 17:26:03 +0800 Subject: Singapore's Nepenthes species Hi folks, Managed to photograph 3 species of Pitcher plants from Singapore. I housed them at: http://home1.pacific.net.sg/~chansy/macrophytes.htm Pictures 270 - 272 Hope you can correct me if I got the names wrong. Alternatively, I also put them up at http://www.bigai.ne.jp/~chansy/trip/html/explore.htm In case the above site is too busy you can try a Singapore-based mirrored site at http://members.tripodasia.com.sg/explore/explore.htm I sort them out by location. Best wishes, CHAN Sow-Yan (Singapore) ################### From: "De Witte, Jean P. (JP)" Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 04:34:56 -0500 Subject: clipeata for auction I had a look at the pictures and I feel a bit uncomfortable. I grow those plants as clipeata*veitchii. There are to many differences with n. clipeata (in terms of leaf shape, tendril insertion, "wings" on the pitcher, shape of the upper part of the pitcher) for me in order to label those otherwise. Have a look at Andreas Wistuba's (http://www.wistuba.com) pictures for cross-reference. Jean-Pierre De Witte mailto:j.dewitte@t-online.de http://www.jeandewitte.de ################### From: Dionaea@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 07:36:30 EST Subject: Re: Silica Sand Angie and Doug, What is the brand of silica sand that you buy from Lows and Ceramic King? I have been trying to find some silica sand in Boston for the longest time. Christoph In a message dated 1/29/00 12:48:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, cp@opus.hpl.hp.com writes: > Topic No. 1 > > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 00:57:35 EST > From: Sunpitcher@aol.com > To: cp@opus.hpl.hp.com > Subject: silica sand > Message-ID: <8a.a0f972.25c289cf@aol.com> > > I still get my sandblasting sand at Lowe's. You might try there. After > this > recent discussion I may stockpile a few bags in case they decide not to > carry > it also. Angie Nichols, SC It snowed here Tuesday :) > > ------------------------------ > > Topic No. 2 > > Date: 28 Jan 2000 08:19:20 EST > From: Douglas.W.Darnowski@washcoll.edu (Douglas W. Darnowski) > To: cp@opus.hpl.hp.com > Subject: Silica sand > Message-ID: <449000@staffblitz.washcoll.edu> > > As for a source of silica sand, I get mine from a ceramics supplier--Ceramic > King of New Mexico. They're on the web. Works fine, and you can buy > different > grades. > > > Doug Darnowski > ################### From: Dionaea@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 07:50:58 EST Subject: Re: Genlisea Seed Thierry, I don't have any Genlisea, but if you are looking for some, try Allen Lowrie's list. He generally has seed of various species of Genlisea for sale. His address is 6 Glen Place Duncraig, 6023 Western Australia Christoph > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:14:27 +0100 > From: "Basicarmen" > To: > Subject: research > Message-ID: <001601bf6c31$502a25c0$38eafea9@sky85328> > > Hello I am a little disappointed mailing list after many > advertisements nobody does not answer me I am thus always in the > search of seeds of genlisea it does not matter the kind because I do > not have any I little to make exchanges proposed that you seek and > one will see for the exchange while waiting for your news! so long > Thierry > ################### From: Dionaea@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:00:51 EST Subject: Old Seed Some time ago there was a post of someone planting old seed. I have another case for not tossing your old seed. At the end of December I planted seed collected from my own plants in 1996 of U. calycifida "white flowers" and had 100% germination. I also planted 6 year old VFT seed and had decent germination. Just goes to show that you never know what you have until you plant it. Christoph ################### From: Brewer Charles E PHDN Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:45:46 -0500 Subject: RE: Silica Sand Another great place to get silica sand is at your local swimming pool company. people who have in-ground pools use silica sand in their sand filters. Going price is usually around 6 dollars per 50 pounds. Good luck, Charles Brewer Virginia Beach, Va. USA > > ################### From: "Aaron M. Ellison" Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 09:24:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: foot candles, lumens, and light In response to: >Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:17:17 -0400 >From: osito@intraweb.cl (Jose Gengler L.) >To: cp@opus.hpl.hp.com >Subject: foot candles to lumens >Message-ID: <20000131192523614.AAB338@osito> > >Hi! > >I have been looking at James and Patricia Pietropaolo's book entitled >"Carnivorous Plants of the World". It is a very technical, sinthetic, >and full of wise advises. Units come both in metric and american >systems. I am very glad I bought that book. > >But one thing has got my attention. They measure luminosity in foot >candles, a unit they say is widespread. All the literature I have been >reviewing measures luminosity in lumens. I don't know the relationship >between these two units. I supose it is not a linear relatinship. I would >greatly appreciate if someone shares a conversion formula. A foot candle is the amount of light given off by a 'standard candle' (whatever that is) at 1 foot. A foot candle = 1 lumen/square foot, so there is a linear conversion. However, neither lumens nor foot candles measure what a plant sees, which is photosynthetically active radiation (light in the 400-700 nm [nanometers] wavelength range), and is measured as photosynthetic photon flux density, or PPFD, in moles of photons per meter squared per second. There is no conversion between lumens (or foot candles) and PPFD, because lumens/foot candles are what your eye sees. As an example, one lumen measured at 562 nm = 1.49 milliWatts of radiation, and one lumen measured at 430 nm 1 126.7 milliWatts of radiation. It's much more useful how much PPFD your artificial lights are putting out. Cheap radiation sensors for PPFD are undoubtedly available, but the light manufacturers should be able to provide the information directly. Aaron Ellison ################### From: Hayes7@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 09:53:09 EST Subject: Re: clipeata for auction I appreciate the warning and I have asked several other people to help me ID the plant in question. I am GLAD I haven't actually purchased them yet, since they may not be the real deal! They came from John DeKannel and the guy who has been growing them swore they were correctly identified, so I didn't even question it. I don't have one myself and I was planning to sell a few of his, so I would get one for the trouble. Thanks for your comments, -Thomas Hayes > I had a look at the pictures and I feel a bit >uncomfortable. I grow those plants as >clipeata*veitchii. There are to many differences with >n. clipeata (in terms of leaf shape, tendril insertion, >"wings" on the pitcher, shape of the upper part of the >pitcher) for me in order to label those otherwise. ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:18:39 -0500 Subject: Quikrete Sand Just got off the phone with my local Quikrete office and have some great news! The sand which I bought at the local Home Depot - commercial grade, fine - appears to be a great choice for use with CP. Here's what I was told about the Quikrete sand available in my area: Commercial Grade: fine, medium, coarse - this is silica sand from Port Elizabeth, NJ. (Where is this, anyway? Not next to my favorite toxic waste dumps, I hope!) ;) Play sand is "Long Island beach sand" = Silica sand. All purpose = 1/2 LI. 1/2 mid Hudson sand (mined near Poughkeepsie, NY) - contains lots of minerals, including Limestone. Seems like the all purpose sand would be a BAD choice but the others should be fine. The play sand is a mix of fine sand and course sand so you get more variety. Hope this helps, I'll probably experiment a bit with this fine CG sand before I put my favorite Drosera in it but it sounds like this'll be ok. Matt ################### From: "Stefan P. Wolf" Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 16:08:07 +0100 Subject: New book on "Neblina" Hi! I reviewed the English edition of a new book about an expedition to the Tepui (table mountain) "Neblina". The title is "NEBLINA - of Mists and Scents". Please find more info, cover photos, original blurb and my review here: http://www.angelfire.com/de/cpbooks/xnebliE0.html I will do a big collective order of this title, if you're interested in obtaining a copy please mail for details (or see my website). Carnivorously, Stefan. -- Dipl.-Inform. Stefan P. Wolf ................................................ mail : Zehlendorfer Str. 69, 24111 Kiel, GERMANY phone: (+49 431) 5973173 * fax: (+49 431) 697568 CP books >> http://www.angelfire.com/de/cpbooks/ ................................................ ################### From: "Steven Venter" Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:41:32 +0200 Subject: ICPS Gallery Hi all. 1. I received a request from a publishing house in the UK, requesting two print-quality images (slides or prints) of D. rotundifolia, "one showing an insect landing on the drosera, and [the other as] it starts to envelope the insect." If they decide to use the images, they will pay for publishing rights. Please let me know if you have any suitable images. 2. I've received a number of really good submissions for the ICPS Gallery - please keep them coming. You can see the submission guidelines at http://www.carnivorousplants.org/membsubm.html Thanks Steven Venter Gallery Curator International Carnivorous Plant Society http://www.carnivorousplants.org Africa for Visitors - http://goafrica.about.com About.com - the network of sites led by expert guides Webmaster & Manager: Product Development Jabulani Handcraft Centre (a project of the Association for the Physically Challenged) http://jabulani.hypermart.net ################### From: Hayes7@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:21:35 EST Subject: Re: clipeata for auction And to add a bit of further information, having talked to John, he said he got rid of them because of the possibility of their being hybrids. So it appears that I got excited a little too fast on this! Until I hear otherwise, no more auction! Thomas Hayes > I had a look at the pictures and I feel a bit >uncomfortable. I grow > those plants as >clipeata*veitchii. There are to many differences with n. clipeata (in >terms of leaf shape, tendril insertion, "wings" on the pitcher, shape >of the upper part of the pitcher) for me in order to label those >otherwise. ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:25:57 -0500 Subject: RE: Quikrete Sand >Play sand is "Long Island beach sand" = Silica sand. Beach sand doesn't sound like it would be good either since it's likely to contains ocean salts. Of course, Home Depot play sand is what I've been using for years with good results for Drosera. With the respect to salt levels, however, not all Drosera are likely to be created equal. Some may tolerate higher salt levels than others. David Atlanta ################### From: Phil Wilson Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 14:50:03 +0000 Subject: Re: foot candles to lumens Jose, > > >I have been looking at James and Patricia Pietropaolo's book entitled >"Carnivorous Plants of the World". It is a very technical, sinthetic, >and full of wise advises. Units come both in metric and american >systems. I am very glad I bought that book. > >But one thing has got my attention. They measure luminosity in foot >candles, a unit they say is widespread. All the literature I have been >reviewing measures luminosity in lumens. I don't know the relationship >between these two units. I supose it is not a linear relatinship. I >would greatly appreciate if someone shares a conversion formula. > Lumen is the unit of light emitted from the source - i.e. the lamp. Lux is the unit of illumination - an important difference. 1 lux = 1 lumen per square metre. In the US the unit is measured as Lumen/square foot or foot candles. If you use the conversion factor from square feet to square metres you should be able to make the conversion. Hope this helps. Phil Wilson Email: cp@pwilson.demon.co.uk ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 08:30:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: ICPS Conference limited to 200 Hi Don, I'm not organizing the conference, but I think the reason it is limited to 200 people is based in fiscal caution. The organizers of the meeting have to front money to pay for the convention (in advance). If we arranged for a huge conference hall, and for some reason we had poor meeting attendence, the meeting organizers (ICPS and others) would lose a large amount of money. It would be great to plan for a huge meeting, but the financial risk in case of a huge failure is too great to risk. I do not think that the ICPS conference has yet run out of space, so if you want to attend, look at the ICPS web site for information on how to join, and also contact the conference organizer David Gray (david@carnivorousplants.org). I hope to see you at the conference! Cheers Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: Ivan Snyder Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:30:40 -0800 Subject: re: Heliamphora sp.? Hi again, Bill wrote: > In addition, they also found what looks like a new species, which they call H. >sp. Neblinae - maybe this is the one you're referring to above when you say >that you have "both" types of seed? (hence my statement above about >misunderstandings!). This was quite different to the other plants on >Neblina, and also the northern H. tatei variety. / >The true position is itself very confusing. The adventurers who went off to >Neblina report that the H. tatei var. neblinae populations on the mountain >were extremely variable; Ivan again: Glad you brought this up. Yes, the taxonomy for Heliamphora of that region seems indeed confusing with the extreme variation witnessed. I saw their video documentary, very puzzling. At least several more variatal forms must be described. I hope they are working on this and that we hear more about it. In addition, they did also find H. minor. Whatever the case of my plant's identity, I feel certain that it better suited to cultivation. Matt wrote: >As to the mold which killed the majority of the seedlings, did you try using >any fungicide on the seed / seedlings? Ivan again: No I did not. My cultivation method is a case of survival of the fitest. : ) Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ################### From: "PHILIP SHERIDAN" Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 20:57:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Anthocyanin Hi Folks: Ivan made a statement that I said Sarracenia hybrids have more anthocyanin than species. Ivan, I don't recall saying that. Perhaps there is a misunderastanding somewhere, please let me know where this came from. Dr. Rob Griesbach of USDA and I are now submitting a paper to HortScience on the characterization of Sarracenia anthocyanins. Stay tuned! I think you will find it interesting. Sincerely, Phil Sheridan Director Meadowview Biological Research Station ################### From: "Richard Jobson" Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 14:05:46 +1100 Subject: Genlisea habitat Dear all, I have dug up a list message from 96 in which Fernando describes that G. repens and G. aurea are almost always found submerged (G. repens deeper than aurea). So this answers my question, thanks Fernando and also Barry for information. Has anyone heard anything about the complete monograph of Genlisea by Elza Fromm-Trinta? Peter Taylor mentions that its in the stages of completion in his 1991 account of Genlisea (CPN Vol 20 1991). It must be coming soon, can't wait. Best, Richard. Richard W. Jobson Department of Botany University of Queensland Brisbane, Queensland 4072 Australia. Ph: (07) 33651457; (H) 38315939 Fax:(07) 33651699 E-mail: r.jobson@botany.uq.edu.au "It is the spirit of the age to believe that any fact, however suspect, is superior to any imaginative exercise, no matter how true". Gore Vidal. ################### From: "Richard Jobson" Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 14:08:42 +1100 Subject: Genlisea habitat Dear all, I have dug up a list message from 96 in which Fernando describes that G. repens and G. aurea are almost always found submerged (G. repens deeper than aurea). So this answers my question, thanks Fernando and also Barry for information. Has anyone heard anything about the complete monograph of Genlisea by Elza Fromm-Trinta? Peter Taylor mentions that its in the stages of completion in his 1991 account of Genlisea (CPN Vol 20 1991). It must be coming soon, can't wait. Best, Richard. ################### From: "sundew" Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 15:06:45 +1100 Subject: Re.Dionaea double petiole and traps Dear all Just one more thing...the double petioled plants has had one of the traps catch a fly, whilst the other has remained open. Another plant has a doudle trap that has captured flies twice now. Just thought I woud clear up the murmurs of ineffective traps in the double state. Furthermore, they are healthy plants in full sun, being in my collection for at least 4 years. Regards Nathan J. Clemens sundew@mitmania.net.au Bowral NSW Australia [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "norman francis" Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:51:22 +0200 Subject: Re: Silica Sand There seems to be undue concern about the health hazards of using sand for potting purposes with the exception of a few occupational exposure situations (silicosis) sand can be considered harmless. The health problem posed by sand is primarilly results from the "Free Silica" content of the sand; the free silica is silica that has not associated with other chemicals in the "sand particle";Free Silica is found only in minute concentrations in the everyday sand that you are likely to run across. The size of the sand particle is crucial to its toxicity, too small and it is inhalled and exhalled with no harm, too large and your natural defenses against " dirt particles " takes care of it, I believe the size window is between 3 to 5 microns for lung deposition. When I was a baby my parents were afraid that I would be damaged because I ate so much sand and dirt that athe asked the family doctor about it;he said "give him a spoon" ...sage advice. Sent by Medscape Mail: FREE Portable E-mail for Professionals on the Move http://www.medscape.com ################### From: VFTMaxwell@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:59:41 EST Subject: (no subject) What's the email address to the unsubscribe from this list? ################### From: Sunpitcher@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 00:08:00 EST Subject: silica sand Hi Christoph. The sand is put out by the W. R. Bonsal Co. of Charlotte, NC. Its called Bonsal sand. Angie Nichols, South Carolina ################### From: "Phill Mann" Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 02:13:53 +0800 Subject: Clipeata for auction Hi I think I would have to agree with the other messages stating that the plant appears to be a N. clipeata hybrid. I would beg to differ with it being N. clipeata X veitchii as carries vary little of the characteristics of the latter. I have both of these plants and it looks like neither. With most of the N. clipeata X veitchii I've seen the plants are extremely hairy, the pitchers are more N. clipeata shaped. I have photos on my site of the Japanese made hybrid they called "J&B" (not legal). Regards Phill Mann P.O. Box 193 Harvey, 6220 Western Australia philmann@geo.net.au http://geo.net.au/~philmann "Light travels faster than sound" "That's why some people appear bright until they open their mouths" ################### From: Davidogray@aol.com Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 02:32:08 EST Subject: Number of participants for the ICPS World Conference Hello to Don, and to all the readers of this list, I saw your post on the CP listserve and as I am the primary organizer for the Conference, I thought I should respond. First, let me say the conference is not yet sold out; if you or anyone else wants to register, there are still over 70 places available. I can provide more information for registering if you request it. The BACPS has volunteered to host the event in the San Francisco Bay Area; no other group in the United States seemed interested in hosting a conference this year. We started this planning process over 14 months ago, and a group of members have met many many times over many months to work on the hundreds of details that are involved in putting on the conference. These meetings were announced at the BACPS general meetings and were open to all. We were unable to find a free location for the Conference, as had been the case for the previous conferences. As space is in high demand in the Bay Area and as we had to reserve a hall long in advance, we had to choose an arbitrary number of seats in our search for the venue. None of the previous conferences have attracted more than 160 people. This conference will also be the most expensive conference and will likely be less well-attended than the ones in Bonn and Atlanta. The members of the organizing committee felt the large room in Building A at the Fort Mason Center was a good balance between expense and capacity. It also has adjoining rooms for related events, such as exhibitions and retail areas. We also feel we have secured a most beautiful site for the Conference, right on San Francisco Bay. We also strongly encouraged a very early registration so that if there was more interest than anticipated, we could seek other spaces for a larger audience. We had over 90 people register early. There *will* be a sales area, and it will be open to the general public if the vendors are willing. As well, there are going to be workshops open to the general public, albeit on a space-available basis, and a photography show and contest. We have taken steps to make this conference a more diverse and appealing one to hobbyists, who in past conferences were put off by many of the scholarly talks. I hope you will take the opportunity of the conference in San Francisco to join us, the dozens of researchers, botanists, nurserymen, conservationists, and hobbyists who will be gathered in appreciating not just the plants, but the people who appreciate the plants. For those of you who have already registered, let me apologize for my long delay in sending more registration information ( especially those hotel numbers ); that information will go out Wed. the 2nd of Feb. Please do not hesitate to write me with your questions or comments. Sincerely, and as always, Cheers, David O. Gray ################### From: "De Witte, Jean P. (JP)" Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 01:43:00 -0600 Subject: clipeata Hi Tom & others, This is strange. I know John personally for many years and his judgement was OK. Then, knowing the history of some of the clipeata seed that got around (for one batch the female flower spike was polinated with three different species, one of them clipeata) it would have been easy to get a mix-up and believe you got the _real_ stuff! I myself have three strains running, and most of the time I have to wait till the plants are large enough (+- 2 inch) before I see a difference. Take care, John >I appreciate the warning and I have asked several other people to help me >ID the plant in question. I am GLAD I haven't actually purchased >them yet, since they may not be the real deal! They came from John >DeKannel and the guy who has been growing them swore they were >correctly identified, so I didn't even question it. I don't have one myself and I >was planning to sell a few of his, so I would get one for the >trouble. >Thanks for your comments, >-Thomas Hayes Jean-Pierre De Witte mailto:j.dewitte@t-online.de http://www.jeandewitte.de ################### From: "Steve Alton" Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 09:38:40 -0000 Subject: Wallpaper Dear All, Pretty frivolous, but if anyone has a piece of software called "Image Catcher" (which rotates a selection of desk-top wallpaper images and also acts as a screen-saver) there is a rather lovely downloadable picture of Sarracenia purpurea on the Image Catcher website. Go to daily.worldprints.com - Scenics - Landscapes - Page14 It's huge! And there's a sundew in the foreground! Steve Alton (with too much time on his hands!) ################### From: DeepDown Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 10:42:11 +0100 Subject: deepdown@mindless.com Does anyone resieve this ? I'm trying to get in touch with other CP growers. :) Regards, Stig Henning ----- http://www.spedia.net/cgi-bin/tz.cgi?run=show_svc&fl=8&vid=208731 [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Steven Venter" Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 16:42:04 +0200 Subject: Photo request Here's an update from the publisher requesting two photographs of D. rotundifolia, for which he's prepared to pay: "I would like to reiterate what we are looking for, as the authors of this book are very specific about what they want. They are very specifically looking for two images that together show the folding motion of the Drosera plant as it traps an insect. The important issue is the folding of the trap, so two images, one showing an insect having just landed, the other showing the folding process begining, will suffice. I am sorry but we do not need images showing the plant on its own, nor do we need images showing a plant fully folded up having engulfed an insect. They must also be in colour. I hope this clarifies our request" Steven Venter ICPS Gallery Curator stevev@carnivorousplants.org [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 10:31:47 -0500 Subject: Nepenthes Some time ago I bought a N. madagascarenis from Home Depot. Having killed several so far and not having the terrarium ready to go, I put it in a plastic bag, added water, and let it sit under a fluorescent light for 6 months. I still haven't set up the terrarium yet and checked on the plant last night. To my amazement, the thing has taken off, is almost bursting out of the bag, and is producing fairly large pitchers (probably 3 to 4 inches.) Now the largest I had ever produced so far might be the size of little fingernail. It's been sitting in about a cm of water all this time (probably another no-no from what I've read.) I will have to transfer it soon, either to a larger plastic bag or to a terrarium. I've never had the HD Nepenthes do much for me and had thought that maybe it was because it was a tc Nepenthes. I also realized that maybe I was just not dedicated enough to grow Nepenthes. It's funny how one stumbles across the right method for their growing conditions and husbandry skills. I'm almost reluctant to change anything but it will certainly outgrow whatever plastic bag I come up with. Anyway, it's been fun playing around with trying to find the right conditions. Glad I stuck with it. I have several other Nepenthes from Malesnesia growing in the same conditions and all are doing quite well. David Atlanta ################### From: "dick c tran" Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 14:31:42 -0800 Subject: on/off timers hello cpers, does anybody out there know where i can find a timer that can be set by the minute. the least setting that i could find was 15 min. the purpose for finding this timer is for operating a cool-humidifier which can totally saturate the air in a 60-gallon tank in less than 3 minutes. regards dick MailCity. Secure Email Anywhere, Anytime! http://www.mailcity.com ################### From: "John Green" Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 16:44:21 -0700 Subject: "Chipola"? I've seen the word "chipola" written with Sarracenia names several times, like S. leucophylla "chipola" or S. purpurea "chipola". What does this word mean? Is it just a location description? John Green Salt Lake City, Utah ################### From: "Carl Strohmenger (HSC)" Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 19:03:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: "Chipola"? It probably refers to the town of Chipola or the Chipola River in the Florida Panhandle area (NW part of the state) which is true Sarracenia country. - Carl On Wed, 2 Feb 2000, John Green wrote: > I've seen the word "chipola" written with Sarracenia names several > times, like S. leucophylla "chipola" or S. purpurea "chipola". What > does this word mean? Is it just a location description? > > John Green > Salt Lake City, Utah > ################### From: "Dave Evans" Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 20:21:53 -0500 Subject: Re: dormancy problems > I have a S. purpurea with densely clustered pitchers > which is being kept outside for winter (I live in San > Francisco). When I last checked it, some of the pitchers > are rotting near the base, and there's a powdery green/gray > substance over the crown and the bases of the pitchers. > Is this what's called "powdery mildew"? I've cut off all > the unhealthy pitchers and am wondering what else I > should do. Should I wash the plant thoroughly and repot? > Is it necessary to look into fungicides? Should I try > to keep the plant in a drier place? (It's been raining > on and off.) Thanks... To all your questions, yes. Use some garden sulfur, it is fairly good at preventing this. Also, yes, the leaves of S.purpurea can grow too thick and cut the air flow promoting rot. Dave Evans ################### From: "Richard Jobson" Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 15:54:28 +1100 Subject: African Genlisea Hi, Just wondering if anyone out there grows Africa species of Genlisea such as G. africana, G. pallida? G. hispidula seems to be widely cultivated but what of the other Africans. Cheers, Richard. "Whats the only thing faster than the speed of light; the speed of doubt" The Sandman. ################### From: "Andrew Marshall" Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 17:13:20 -0800 Subject: new e-mail address Hi Folks, Andrew here of Cascade Carnivorous Plants... I have a new e-mail address. lease not it down. I will still be using the olywa one for a little while until I get things transferred over, but I want to begin using the new one ASAP. It is Andrewm@thevortex.com Please write to me there and I can see if it works or not. Thanks! Andrew PS. does any one know how to get this digest to transfer over to the new address? I don't want to unsub and resub as I have forgotten how, and don't know any other way. Thanks! ################### From: "Thune Stig Henning/2AE" Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 13:02:44 +0100 XSubject: new e-mail address btw; ----------------------------- You can visit my homepage at; http://CaminoPA50.spedia.net ----------------------------- -------------------- Wan't to make money - surfing the web ?----------------------- http://www.spedia.net/cgi-bin/dir/tz.cgi?run=show_svc&fl=8&vid=208731 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ################### From: "De Witte, Jean P. (JP)" Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 06:50:23 -0600 Subject: clipeata hybrid? I have seen Phil Mann's comments on my naming the plant clipeata*veitchii. He is right of course. Checked the labels on my plants and they say clipeata*emay (altough I must have clipeata*veitchii somewhere hidden in the greenhouse). Take care Jean-Pierre De Witte mailto:j.dewitte@t-online.de http://ww.jeandewitte.de ################### From: Philcula@webtv.net (Phil Faulisi) Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 05:32:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: on/off timers Hi Dick, You should try contacting Charlie's Greenhouse Supply. They have a unit called a Cycle Stat. It is a micro misting timer that has two dial settings. One setting for on duration and the other for off. You can set the on dial for as short as 5 seconds to as long as 8 hours and the off dial can can be set for I believe 5 minute to 24 hour intervals. I purchased one of these timers, rather pricey though $80 or $90, and was also able to find a high pressure/high power pump to run my RO water through the mist line. What an amazing difference. It's funny. Sometimes I forget the misters are on and while giving tours of the greenhouse they all activate at once scaring my guests. Jeez, you would think it was acid rain by thier reaction.LOL Anyway if you would like more information you could privately email me. Hope this helps. Phil ################### From: Ivan Snyder Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 09:23:17 -0800 Subject: re: Anthocyanin Hi Phil and all, I wrote a thread the other day about my seedling Heliamphora which I suspected might possibly be a natural hybrid to explain the plants better growth ( hybrid vigor, or heterosis ) and its apparent darker red coloration. I misquoted Phil Sheridan in saying that he reported that natural Sarracenia hybrids have more anthocyanin red. Sorry Phil, I retract my statement. I confused your June 1997 CPN article -Genetics of Sarracenia Leaf and Flower Color. Phil replied: >Ivan made a statement that I said Sarracenia hybrids have more anthocyanin than >species. Ivan, I don't recall saying that. Perhaps there is a misunderastanding >somewhere, please let me know where this came from. >Dr. Rob Griesbach of USDA and I are now submitting a paper to HortScience on the >characterization of Sarracenia anthocyanins. Stay tuned! I think you will find >it interesting. >Sincerely, >Phil Sheridan >Director >Meadowview Biological >Research Station Ivan again: Anyway, refound the information I was refering to in an American Scientist magazine May-June 1982 titled The Gulf Coast Pitcher Plant Bogs by George W. Folkerts. On page 265 Mr. Folkerts tells, "I have found that hybrids often possess abnormally large amounts of the plant pigment anthocyanin distributed in unusual patterns". The article goes on to tell that Sarracenia hybrids are at a disadvantage in the long run. An especially good example of this is shown with S. purpurea X S. alata. This hybrid has taller pitchers than purpurea with the open hood which can become filled with rain water causing the pitcher to topple over dumping its contents. Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ################### From: Fabien ZUNINO Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 18:09:34 +0100 Subject: Triphyophyllum peltatum - Phytochemistry Hi! New article about Triphyophyllum peltatum in Phytochemistry: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------- Droserone from cell cultures of Triphyophyllum peltatum (Dioncophyllaceae) and its biosynthetic origin Gerhard Bringmann, Heiko Rischer, Michael Wohlfarth, Jan Schlauer, Laurent Ake Assi Phytochemistry 53 (2000) 339-343 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------- Abstract The growth and droserone content of callus cultures of Triphyophyllum peltatum grown in liquid 1/5 Linsmaier and Skoog medium was studied. During a lag phase in growth, droserone concentrations in the medium reached a value of 2.1 mg g-1 fr. wt. After this maximum value the concentration decreased slightly to 1.8 mg g-1 fr. wt., while the growth of the calli was enhanced (25% increase in fr. wt. within 7 days). Plumbagin and isoshinanolone were likewise present in the dium. By feeding 13 C2 -labelled acetate to the cultures the biosynthesis of droserone was elucidated. The incorporation of whole C2 -units unambiguously shows its acetogenic origin and its well in the biosynthetic scheme suggested for the structurally - and biogenetically - related naphthylisoquinoline alkaloids. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------- Best regards, Fabien ZUNINO ################### From: "R. E. Jones" Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 20:08:28 -0000 Subject: Global warming? Hey, I know that global warming is making things speed up but today I had a Sarracenia flava flower that opened its petals. How is everyone else doing? Dick in the uk. ################### From: "Andy Falshaw" Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 09:12:01 +1300 Subject: Genlisea propagation I've had reasonable success with leaf cutting of g. violacea, maybe 50-60% taking. I tried 4 g.hispidula leaves and got 0 taking. is hispidula trickier? Anyone got any tips? thanks Andy Wellington, New Zealand, still waiting for summer to arrive ################### From: "dick c tran" Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 12:12:29 -0800 Subject: ultra-sonic humidifier hello all, who knows where i can find a very compact ultra-sonic humidifier under $40? Or, where i can find just the transducer assembly that i can lower into a cup of water to produce the 'mist'. Just in case you are wondering what this guy is up to. I am planning to grow highland nepenthes in an aquarium and the humidifier will be used in the summer just in case it gets too hot. By the way, is anyone currently growing highland nepenthes in an aquarium setting and have been doing so for the last 3 years or more where your plants are healthy and vigorously growing? If so, please contact me. I like to know your methodology. thanks dick MailCity. Secure Email Anywhere, Anytime! http://www.mailcity.com ################### From: "Trent Meeks" Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 19:08:57 PST Subject: Re:I'm back (re-introduction) Hello everybody, I'm back! I was subscribed before, but was suddenly interrupted when the office was moved and other business matters suddenly changed. Many of you already know me, but I'll re-introduce myself as a CP grower located in Pompano Beach, Florida (just north of Ft. Lauderdale), who has a primary interest in pitcher plants, especially Nepenthes. I've been at it a while now and have a small, overcrowded lathe house-patio jammed with Nepenthes. Outside of the lathehouse, I maintain a few trays of Sarracenia. I've been growing Neps for about eight years now, but only about four years of success with Sarracenia. Anyway, it is good to be back, and I'll be posting some comments around the topic of raising Sarracenia in a sub-tropical climate. Until later, Trent Pompano Beach, Fl ################### From: "Edward Read" Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 00:00:24 -0800 Subject: 1998 Conference/ Pinguicula talks Hello All, I am writting because I am curious to know if anyone can help me find Dr. A. Lau's talk given at the 1998 conference. It was published in Dionee in French, so I assume it is possibly available in English. Thanks for any help, Edward Read tissueculture@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/rainforest/9848/ ################### From: "Dave Evans" Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 00:15:19 -0500 Subject: Re: P.sp.Pachuca = emarginata?? Nah, they are not the same species. Dave Evans > I've noticed a good deal of similarity between the foliage of plants > I have labelled as sp Pachuca and emarginata. I have yet to see > either flower but was wondering if these are related or possibly the > same? > > Thanks! Matt ################### From: JScott9653@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 00:47:43 EST Subject: timers In a message dated 2/3/00 10:12:55 PM US Eastern Standard Time, JScott9653 writes: timers Date: 2/3/00 10:12:55 PM US Eastern Standard Time From: JScott9653 To: cp@opus.hpl.hp.com Hello Intermatic makes timers that can run something for one minute or more. I puchased one at sears a while back. there web site is www.intermatic.com there is a lot of info on there timers there. Hope this helps Jim >> --- part 2 --- Hello Intermatic makes timers that can run something for one minute or more. I puchased one at sears a while back. there web site is www.intermatic.com there is a lot of info on there timers there. Hope this helps Jim ################### From: "Richard Jobson" Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:35:40 +1100 Subject: Genlisea propagation Dear Andy, I would like to hear some more details as to how you prepare and culture the Genlisea leaf cuttings. I am pretty sure that Sundew Matt has had some luck with leaf cuttings for Genlisea as well. Thanks, Richard. ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 08:44:58 Subject: Re: 1998 Conference/ Pinguicula talks Dear Ed, > I am writting because I am curious to know if anyone can help me find > Dr. A. Lau's talk given at the 1998 conference. It was published in Dionee > in French, so I assume it is possibly available in English. It is included in the Conference Proceedings (pp. 10-12, mailed with CPN in December, 1998). Dr. Lau did not appear at the conference, but he has authorized Dr. Luhrs to give his talk. Kind regards Jan ################### From: Phil Wilson Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:44:41 +0000 Subject: Re: "Chipola"? In message , John Green writes >I've seen the word "chipola" written with Sarracenia names several >times, like S. leucophylla "chipola" or S. purpurea "chipola". What >does this word mean? Is it just a location description? > Yes, its a location description. Chipola is a small town just west of the Appalachicola National Forest in Florida. Regards, Phil Wilson Email: cp@pwilson.demon.co.uk ################### From: "Thune Stig Henning/2AE" Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 14:41:38 +0100 Subject: I want to become a member Please enrole me on your list ################### From: Fabien ZUNINO Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 14:44:43 +0100 XSubject: I want to become a member Hi all! Two references about CP: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------- Costs and benefits of carnivory in plants: Insights from the photosynthetic performance of four carnivorous plants in a subarctic environment Mendez M.; Karlsson P.S. Oikos, Volume 86, Issue 1, 1999, Pages 105-112 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------- Abstract We measured photosynthetic performance in four subarctic carnivorous plants, Pinguicula alpina, P. villosa, P. vulgaris and Drosera rotundifolia, in order to test if there is a cost of combining photosynthetic and trapping devices into the same organ (leaves). We compared these data with published results on photosynthetic rates in subarctic non-carnivorous plants. In P. vulgaris, an experiment of prey addition and removal further tested the existence of a short-term benefit of increased nutrient gain from prey in terms of photosynthetic efficiency. Leaf area-based photosynthetic rates (P(a)) ranged 2.0-3.0 mol CO2 m-2 s-1, dry mass-based photosynthetic rates (P(w)) 42-69 nmol CO2 g-1 s-1 and photosynthetic nitrogen use efficiency (PNUE) 29-45 mol CO2 mol N-1 s-1. In general, P(a) and P(w) of carnivorous plants increased with leaf nitrogen content. When each species was analysed separately, those relationships were weak (P. alpina and P. villosa) or non-significant (P. vulgaris and D. rotundifolia). The photosynthetic rate of carnivorous plants was lower than that of other subarctic growth forms. In addition, P(w) for a given leaf nitrogen content was significantly lower in carnivorous plants than in non-carnivorous ones. No change in P(a), P(w) or PNUE occurred as a result of prey capture manipulation, but treatments differed only slightly in nutrient content. P(w) and PNUE showed a trend to be higher in reproductive P. alpina ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------- and Identification of sarracenin in four species of Sarracenia (Sarraceniaceae), Biochemical Systematics and Ecology, Volume 28, Issue 2, March 2000, Pages 193-195 Tyree Newman, Sayed Ibrahim, James W. Wheeler, W. B. McLaughlin, Raymond L. Petersen and Richard M. Duffield ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------- Bonne lecture, sorry good reading ! Fabien ZUNINO ################### From: "Adao Pereira" Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:19:39 -0000 Subject: Re: Genlisea propagation Hi Andy & all, I have lots of Genlisea hispidula and I propagate it very easly from trap cuttings (well, I only tried this once... I have no need of propagating it more). But I grow this plant almost submerged, instead of growing it in the soil, maybe it prefers to be grown in this "aquatic" way. >From seeds it's also easy to propagate. Miguel ################### From: "Adao Pereira" Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:32:06 -0000 Subject: Help my flowering Heliamphora...! Hello! The flower of my Heli. will open in the next days, and I still don't know how to pollinate it! I read that it was difficult to get them producing pollen... anyone knows how to do it? And can it be selfed? Thanks a lot, Miguel ################### From: Ivan Snyder Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 09:13:23 -0800 Subject: Ping Observation/Question Hi CPers, While seeing Pinguicula macroceras var. nortensis in its natural sites up in Northern California I observed something which at first had me very curios. I believe I have an explanation for what I noticed which might interest some of you. Upon visiting several natural sites for this butterwort I had a close look at them and was able to see just what kind of prey items they were trapping. I was struck by the incredibly large sized insects that were commonly caught. It seemed impossible that this plant could capture such sized insects which would seem to have no trouble in struggling free. Many plants had housefly sized flying insects and a few even had great big dragon flies! How could this be? This got me quite interested in the plant. I collected seed and was able to grow this plant very well and have grown a few generations from seed to seed once again. I raise Fruitflies ( Drosophila melanogaster ) as live food for all my different CPs. Funny thing though, when I sprinkle the live insects on my butterworts here at home they nearly always get free from the plants and have no trouble doing so. So then, how can we explain the large size of the insects which are captured in nature? I think I have the answer but will give you some time to think on this one to see if maybe some of you might also come up with the same conclusion. I will post my answer tomorrow. Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ################### From: "E. PARTRAT & B. BERNARD" Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 20:59:30 +0100 Subject: Subject: 1998 Conference/ Pinguicula talks >Hello All, > I am writting because I am curious to know if anyone can help me find >Dr. A. Lau's talk given at the 1998 conference. It was published in Dionee >in French, so I assume it is possibly available in English. >Thanks for any help, >Edward Read Hi eveybody, J made the french version of this article and the original version is published by the ICPS and was given with a 1998 newsletter. This was very nice for people that could'nt go to the Bonn Conference and J made a traduction of this part (J am fond of Pinguicula) in a way to make it readable for french members of DIONEE that can't read english. It is edited by two famous celebrities :Jan Schlauer an Barry Meyers-Rice With best regards E. PARTRAT ################### From: Dionaea@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 15:13:55 EST Subject: Looking for Dave Evans and Larry Logoteta Dave Evans and Larry Logoteta, If you are still on the list, could please send me a quick email at dionaea@aol.com Thanks. Christoph ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 12:48:40 -0800 Subject: Re: Unsub question > VFTMaxwell@aol.com writes: > > What's the email address to the unsubscribe from this list? To unsubscribe, send the one-line message: UNSUB CP To listserv@opus.hpl.hp.com Best regards, -- Rick Walker ################### From: CMDodd@aol.com Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 23:10:56 EST Subject: Re: N. clipeata and/or its hybrid Dear Nepenthophiles, Concerning the ID of the N. clipeata that are beginning to show up from T/C in collections, I have a few of these plants from three different sources and will comment on their physical appearance after a brief discussion on their origins as far as I understand them. All three of these plants had their origin in seed produced at Munich Botanic Gardens, Germany. The story goes that Munich had both a male and a female N. clipeata in flower, and pollinated some (unknown) percentage of the female inflorescence with the male and another percentage with another species, of who's ID I am uncertain. At some point either the lables were lost or the seed gathered by someone unaware of the mixed origin of the seed pods and the seed was all thrown together. I was sent 15 seeds by Munich "half" (7/8) of the seeds were sent to John de Kanel and the other half to Atlanta Botanic Gardens to tissue culture. Given the high mortality of seedlings I did not want to take a chance on killing them. Unfortunately the point was moot as the seed was appearantly killed en route from Germany. John later received more of the seed himself as did Andreas Wistuba, and this time the seed was viable. I believe ABG later got seed or more likely T/C plants from Andreas. I received plants directly from ABG, John and indirectly from Andreas (thank you Jeff!). As to the plants, all three did/do not produce every leaf as a peltate leaf when young. Young plants may produce peltate or deeply truncated "v" or heart shaped leaves until a few inches across. One leaf type may follow another only to revert back in the next, but finally they seem to settle into the peltate type. The plants from John tend to be more robust, they need to reach about 12 inches in diameter before they show any peltate insertion of the tendril which is about 1/6 of the way in from the leaf tip. The new leaves are a cherry red color, unique to be sure. The are somewhat square in outline. The pitchers are typical of the species as far as I can tell, high vaulted concave lid, bulbous base, constriced middle and tapering funnel shaped neck. Entire pitcher is tomentose (furry). Color is green with purplish mottling. The plants from Andreas and ABG are slower of growth. They tend to develop the peltate character at 4" across. The tendril insertion is nearly in the center of the leaf. The leaf is oval in outline and somewhat depressed in the center like a very shallow funnel. The pitcher is less colorful so far, being more green with less spotting. It too is 'fuzzy'. Whether these plants represent hybrid vs. species is difficult to say. N. clipeata has been so rare in collections that these were the first living plants of it I had ever seen. They may represent variation within a species. The difference in growth could also indicate hybrid vigor but I certainly do not believe any deception as to the ID is the case, especially given the difficulty involved with the seed's origin. (All the seeds I saw looked remarkably alike!) I will say that both of these specimen types are well worth cultivating. Despite its scarcity in the wild, it does not appear to be a difficult plant to grow, and anyone who can grow N. truncata or veitchii well should have no problems with it. Cliff ################### From: "Ren\351e Gaillard" Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 01:19:47 -0800 Subject: Cephalotus Hi, Who is willing to sell me seed or better, a Cephalotus plant ? Tx in advance, Renee, Belgium ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 08:43:06 -0500 Subject: re: genlisea propagation > Topic No. 3 > > Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 16:35:40 +1100 > From: "Richard Jobson" > To: cp@opus.hpl.hp.com > Subject: Genlisea propagation > Message-ID: <200002040635.QAA13690@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au> > > Dear Andy, > I would like to hear some more details as to how you prepare and > culture the Genlisea leaf cuttings. I am pretty sure that Sundew > Matt has had some luck with leaf cuttings for Genlisea as well. > Thanks, > Richard. I've tried leaf cuttings of the following: G.violacea and sp.violacea giant: very easy. hispidula: also easy filiformis: easy but really slow as this has been a slow grower for me! aurea: thought it worked the second time but if it did, it disappeared! richard, you didnt "borrow it", did you?! ;) uncinata: currently waiting. Genlisea will grow in only moist conditions but seem to prefer very wet soil. However, for new species, I believe the best choice is to grow them moist cause wet conditions can often result in rotting of many CP. If anyone has any other Genlisea, email me if you want to swap for other CP. I'd like to get my hands on some of the other African ones, especially. Matt ################### From: Ivan Snyder Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 09:29:43 -0800 Subject: Ping Observation/Explanation Hi again CPers, > While seeing Pinguicula macroceras var. nortensis in its natural >sites up in Northern California I observed something which at first had >me very curios. It seemed impossible that this >plant could capture such sized insects which would seem to have no >trouble in struggling free. Many plants had housefly sized flying insects >and a few even had great big dragon flies! Funny thing though, when I sprinkle >live fruitflies on my butterworts here at home they nearly always get >free from the plants and have no trouble doing so. So then, how can we >explain the large size of the insects which are captured in nature? My idea to account for the plant capturing large insects in nature is this: Perhaps the insects settle down on the leaves in the evening and then become inactive with the cooling night. Meanwhile, during the night, the butterwort's leaves fold over the sleeping insect. By morning, escape is too late for the insect. Has this explantation occurred to anyone else? Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ################### From: Juerg Steiger Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 14:05:58 +0000 Subject: Re: Ping Observation/Question Hi Ivan >Many plants had housefly sized flying insects and a few even had > great big dragon flies! Funny thing though, when I sprinkle >live fruitflies on my butterworts here at home they nearly always get >free from the plants and have no trouble doing so. So then, how can we >explain the large size of the insects which are captured in nature? I have observed the same phenomenon in other northern Pinguicula species: Captured dragon-flies and crane-flies. My observations: In natural Pinguicula sites there is usually high relative air humidity in the night, the nocturnal temperature decline mostly resulting in dew. So particularly in the early morning the Pinguicula leaves get extremely slimy. The advantage of an increased amount of mucous juice seems to prevail the disadvantage of its relative dilution. The more juice there is around the more likely it is that the wings are sticked on and the wings are the killer criterion. As a result even large prey cannot escape from the trapping, each gland contact and each movement causes numerous mucous filaments. As soon as their wings are In addition the leaves' margins begin to fold in after a prey contact. There are two kinds of larger insects trapped: Dragon-flies are day-active and as most day-active insects they become stiff and sluggish in the low night and morning temperatures. They are either captured during their first morning flights or in late afternoon-evening. Those which cannot liberate themselves before night will resign their efforts due to the combination of weariness, general loss of activity in the darkness and activity reduction due to the temperature decline. Dragon-flies captured at noon-early afternoon can often escape. Crane-flies are night-active and are attracted by wet substrate in which their larvae feed. They are large but not as strong as the dragon flies and they are hopelessly lost in the ample digestive juice caused by the prey-stimulation plus the high air humidity. These explanations are confirmed by the following observation: With my greenhouse Pinguiculas I did not observe large prey as long as I kept the plants in medium air humidity, although insects had access to the plants. But three years ago I installed several ultrasonic humidifiers, resulting in relative air humidity of 97-100 percent each morning. Since then I also observe occasionally large crane-flies and smaller dragon-flies captured by the Pinguiculas (including P. macroceras ssp. nortensis) which erroneously get into the greenhouse. At noon time air humidity decreases to about 60 percent, the secretion droplets of the mucous glands get smaller and the leaves look dryer. Of course at the higher noon temperatures day-active insects are more alert and 'stronger'. This allows even smaller insects (particularly 'Schwebefliegen' - I just forgot the english term) to escape before their wings are sticked on. Kind regards Juerg ################### From: DeepDown Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 13:32:18 +0100 Subject: Does anyone have good pictures of plants and growing technics ? Hi, there! I'm writting this letter from Norway, and I'm a new member to this newsletter. I have been growing plants for some years now.. It all starded when I was just about 12 years old... I think.. Some friends came accross this wierd looking plant which was able to "eat insects" ?? ..and as the years gone bye, I now own a 400 liter terrarium, and several species of plants. I have placed them all in the terrarium, and some of the Sarracenias to catch "window-flies". (those annoying tiny small flies) I have ICQ, if you which to contact me; 13516715 (please send a message like, "I love CP too :-)" ) Cheers, Stig Henning ----- http://www.spedia.net/cgi-bin/tz.cgi?run=show_svc&fl=8&vid=208731 [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: Ronnie Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 09:20:11 -0500 Subject: Back to CP After a long absence of carnivorous plants in my life I am about to get re-involved. I am going to be introducing my wife to them for the first time. So, I am setting up a terrerium with some sundews and maybe some terr. bladderworts. What does great in that setting and where can I get some other that the local Home Depot? Ronnie Atlanta GA ################### From: "sundew" Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 07:24:26 +1100 Subject: Brilliant Sarracenia showcase in UK mag. Gardens Illustrated Dear Fellow cpers Just thought I would inform all of you the great article in Gardens Illustrated, December 1999/ January 2000, from the United Kingdom. The article is written by John and Jean Ainsworth, and features beautiful pics of various _Sarracenias_, in a total of eight pages! Well worth the non UK readers hunting down. As it is near impossible to get certain US mags with great cp features, this would have to be one of the few benefits of still being in the monarchy! BTW, if any US readers have any notable cp magazine articles of interest and can't get a copy of this mag, I am willing to do a trade. Just email me privately. Regards Nathan J. Clemens sundew@mitmania.net.au Bowral NSW Australia ' Treat the earth well. It was not given to you by your parents. It was lent to you by your children.' [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Andy Falshaw" Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 11:14:47 +1300 Subject: Re: genlisea leaf cuttings > I would like to hear some more details as to how you prepare and > culture the Genlisea leaf cuttings. I am pretty sure that Sundew > Matt has had some luck with leaf cuttings for Genlisea as well. I did pretty much what is suggested in "the savage garden". For g. violacea I pulled single leaves off the plant, and laid them on top of live sphagnum. I didn't pay any attention to whether they came off with any white on the base or not. This is in an unheated terrarium in natural light, where the parent plant is doing ok, and I did it in autumn. After a week or two some leaves had clearly died off, the others started to grow small traps. Once I was sure the cuttings had taken I potted them up into either live sphagnum or a 50:50 peat:sand mix, either worked ok. I gave these plants away a month or two ago, I haven't heard how they're doing, I assume they're fine. Andy ################### From: Michael Feddersen Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 15:50:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: Spring Nepenthes Cutting Sale Hello, With all this warm winter here I am having my annual Nepenthes cutting sale a little early. I posted ad ad on the cp trading post or you can email me at bb626@scn.org. This year I have added more varieties and am including bonus cutting or plants. Truly, Tom Kahl/Nepenthes Club ################### From: jneps Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 17:30:43 -0700 Subject: Re: Spring Nepenthes Cutting Sale Hi Tom, Since you're taking some cuttings, I thought I'd offer you a trade of sorts. I have a couple of things you might be interested in. One is a rooted cutting of N. singalana, the other is a young N. hamata. Also have rooted cuttings of NN. fusca, eymai, gymnamphora purple, and a few other things. What I am looking for is a rooted lowii cutting, several inches of freshly cut lowii vine, or something else unusual. Let me know if you're interested. Regards, Jeff Shafer Michael Feddersen wrote: > > Hello, > With all this warm winter here I am having my annual Nepenthes cutting > sale a little early. I posted ad ad on the cp trading post or you can > email me at bb626@scn.org. This year I have added more varieties and > am including bonus cutting or plants. > Truly, > Tom Kahl/Nepenthes Club ################### From: jneps Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 18:05:17 -0700 Subject: Oops! Re: Spring Nepenthes Cutting Sale My apologies to the list. My comments below were obviously not intended for distribution. Have been using a new email program which easily allows this sort of mistake. Will be more on guard henceforth. Jeff Shafer jneps wrote: > > Hi Tom, > > Since you're taking some cuttings, I thought I'd offer you a trade > of sorts. I have a couple of things you might be interested in. > One is a rooted cutting of N. singalana, the other is a young > N. hamata. Also have rooted cuttings of NN. fusca, eymai, > gymnamphora purple, and a few other things. What I am looking for is a > rooted lowii cutting, several inches of freshly cut lowii vine, or > something else unusual. Let me know if you're interested. > > Regards, > Jeff Shafer > > Michael Feddersen wrote: > > > > Hello, > > With all this warm winter here I am having my annual Nepenthes cutting > > sale a little early. I posted ad ad on the cp trading post or you can > > email me at bb626@scn.org. This year I have added more varieties and > > am including bonus cutting or plants. > > Truly, > > Tom Kahl/Nepenthes Club ################### From: Hendrik De Rocker Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 10:16:22 +0100 Subject: Nepenthes pervillei Hello, I received a seedling of Nepenthes pervillei. Could somebody give me some information about its habitat, culture, history ? Thank you in advance, Hendrik ################### From: "Susan Farrington" Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 07:00:41 -0600 Subject: Okefenokee I'm thinking of planning a canoeing trip to the Okefenokee Swamp (Georgia) sometime next spring (not this year)... what would be the best time to see Sarracenia in bloom? Any advice is greatly appreciated! Susan Farrington Missouri Botanical Garden P.O. Box 299 St. Louis MO 63166-0299 susan.farrington@mobot.org (314)577-9402 ################### From: "Trent Meeks" Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 09:36:38 PST Subject: Re:global warming >Hey, I know that global warming is making things speed up but today I >Sarracenia flava flower that opened its petals. How is everyone else >doing? >Dick in the uk. I have a S. readii with five open flowers and a sixth one on the way up, yet the plant is still producing those wavy red tendrils for growth(do those qualify as phyllodia?). One S. rubra gulfensis has four flowers on the way up. Everything else (I only have about twenty five Sarracenia plants, including three different forms of flava) is still in dormancy. Trent Meeks Pompano Beach, Fl ################### From: "Michael Hunt" Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 13:29:04 -0500 Subject: Re:global warming or just normal early spring flowers Flowering now outside Pingicula ionantha, just starting P. primuliflora, P. planifolia, buds showing on P. lutea. D. capillaris and D. brevifolia. Sarracenia seedlings from last year are sprouting in the bog garden. A few hybrid Sarracenia have passed full bloom, but just a few. Most are still dormant. This is about the time of year that I usually see new life on the plants here (Around Valentines Day) ~Mike St. Petersburg Fl USA ----- Original Message ----- To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 12:39 PM > > > >Sarracenia flava flower that opened its petals. How is everyone else > >doing? > > >Dick in the uk. > > I have a S. readii with five open flowers and a sixth one on the way up, yet > the plant is still producing those wavy red tendrils for growth(do those > qualify as phyllodia?). One S. rubra gulfensis has four flowers on the way > up. Everything else (I only have about twenty five Sarracenia plants, > including three different forms of flava) is still in dormancy. > > Trent Meeks > Pompano Beach, Fl > > ################### From: "dick c tran" Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 13:53:37 -0800 Subject: ultra-sonic mini-fogger hi all, As you may recall, i was looking for the ultrasonic transducers that was inside household humidifiers and a couple of you helpful souls responded with great advice as to where to look.... Thank you! As a result, I was able to find a mini-fogger manufactured by TAAM. Its about 1.5 inch in diameter. These things are EXPENSIVE if you buy from retail stores that carry them. They range from $60 to $75 dollars. However, I was able to find one on the web for $47 dollars from a herp supply site. If anyone is interested, pay them a visit at http://www.herpsupplies.com dick MailCity. Secure Email Anywhere, Anytime! http://www.mailcity.com ################### From: Margaret Boomer Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 20:22:07 -0800 Subject: Re: Nephenthes cuttings Dear Tom: Please send me a list of the nephenthes cuttings. Thank you, Margaret Boomer ################### From: Owen Priddle Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 21:30:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: _Passiflora_foetida_ Hi everybody- Does anyone have any seeds, plants, or information on _Passiflora_foetida_, the passion flower with the supposedly carnivorous flower bracts, available for sale or trade? Anyone interested please contact me for trade possibilities. Thanks- -Owen ################### From: Steve Hinkson Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 21:52:02 -0800 Subject: Nepenthes truncata A wonderful man, Andrew Marshall (a member of this newsgroup) just sent me an established plant of Nepenthes truncata. (LOL, and now I know how such a big plant got it's name, too *wink*) I'd love to hear opinions on how to grow it. Andrew warns me that this plant REALLY objects to being pruned, and doesn't much care for being repotted. Well, I have several Orchids that are set back by repotting, so I know how to build a mix that doesn't loose it's porousity, and just needs occational added organics. Anything else? I live in the Desert Southwest. Many of my Nepenthes tolerate the low humidity in my greenhouse just fine, once they've adapted to it. (their leaves thicken considerably, as do the pitcher walls) Will this plant tolerate summer realitive humidity near 30% in the daytime? Anybody ever try? Thanks in advance. Steve Drop by and see me at : http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/6811 ################### From: bruce dudley Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 03:23:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: Sarracenia dormancy Hi All, I've been reading the comments about Sarracenia sprouting flowers and new growth. In the milder climates such as Florida I'm not surprised that these plants are blooming about 2-4 weeks before the time when these plants will bloom up in my part of the country (NC). Mid and lower FLorida is below most of these species normal growing range (with the exception of S. minor which may no longer grow that far south....) Since the temps here don't remain in the 30's-40's for as many nights during a long enough period to make a good dormancy period you may experience a sudden growth every year. I hear people talk about new growth this early every year! There is a little more talk this year than in the past. To keep your plants from sprouting this early you may want to try a deep pine straw mulch, leave the plants drier, in a shaded part of the yard, in a fairly windy area to keep circulation up. I've grown these plants for nearly 20 years this way. They love it. They tend to take mild winters (not this one! We were covered in snow this time around) better when protected from the sun and occasional warm temps. Remember, some pitcher plants do begin breaking dormancy at the end of February and the first week of March in their most southern ranges anyway. Not to worry! They'll survive.... they have for a long time already. You may lose some flowers to a frost, but the plants will do fine. As for UK conditions, I can't say. Most Sarracenia aren't native to that area so growers will have to play it by ear. When a warm spell is coming on keep them in a shady area. But, keep them drier! You don't want them to rot. Good growing everyone Bruce ################### From: "Philip Semanchuk" Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 09:47:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Okefenokee >I'm thinking of planning a canoeing trip to the Okefenokee Swamp >(Georgia) sometime next spring (not this year)... what would be the >best time to see Sarracenia in bloom? Any advice is greatly >appreciated! Hi Susan, In southeastern North Carolina, the end of April is a good time to see Sarracenia in bloom. I would guess that south Georgia would be as much as a month ahead of this schedule. Make sure you know where to look, as well. I was there in early January of this year and the rangers I spoke to had no idea where to look for carnivorous plants in the swamp. I was hugely disappointed. What really got me mad is that within view of the ranger station there is a drainage ditch with a large population of D. capillaris on one side. (We went in the west entrance, BTW.) I went back and told one ranger, but she didn't seem to care. Happy hunting! Philip URL du jour: http://www.drbronner.com/main.html PS - Re: dormancy, here in Durham, NC my CPs just got blasted with 18 inches of snow and some arctic cold about a week ago, so any thoughts they had about an early start were squashed. ################### From: schlauer@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 16:49:12 +0000 Subject: Re: Brilliant Sarracenia showcase in UK mag. Gardens Illustrated Dear Nathan, > Dear Fellow cpers Just thought I would inform all of you the great > article in Gardens Illustrated, December 1999/ January 2000, from > the United Kingdom. The article is written by John and Jean > Ainsworth, and features beautiful pics of various _Sarracenias_, in > a total of eight pages! Well worth the non UK readers hunting down. Thanks for the info. Do they feature more "names" in addition to their "Black Tube" (unregistered, no standard), "Brooks Hybrid" (not established), "Red Lid" (unregistered, no standard), "Red Tube" (unacceptable homonym), "Wavy Lid" (unregistered), and "White Trumpet" (unregistered)? Are the pictures photographs? Kind regards Jan ################### From: "Steve Alton" Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 16:43:40 -0000 Subject: New webpage Dear All, I have launched upon the ether a CP web-page! It's very much under construction at the moment, photos on most pages but very little text. However, the growlist and plant trading page _is_ up and running. Have a look - and feel free to report any bugs. The "virtual greenhouse" in particular is infested with bugs (a case of art imitating life?) The url is: http://hometown.aol.com/stevedalton/myhomepage/pitcher.html Easy to remember, huh? Regards, Steve Steve Alton UK Co-ordinator - Millennium Seed Bank Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew Wakehurst Place Tel: 01444 894079 Fax: 01444 894069 ################### From: trynur@mailhost.alaska.net Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 19:16:37 GMT Subject: UK nurseries I will be traveling to England and Spain the later part of March. I'd like to visit nurseries in the London area that carry CP's. My questions are: 1. Are there any nurseries in the London area that carry a good supply of CP's? 2. Would any of them have Pinguicula alpina? Thank you, Doug Tryck Anchorage, Alaska ################### From: bruce dudley Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 03:10:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: Okefenokee Rangers Phil- The rangers know where the plants are. They won't tell just anyone though. Believe me, with all the poaching that goes on in the swamp, they care, too! It's better for them to play dumb than to end up having all the plants taken by people who just want a little something to remember their visit by. You probably scared them when you showed them the sundews. You would do better to find a guide when you visit the swamp. Your guide should have a boat too. The best stands of Okee Minor are floating far away from the land trails. Bruce BTW: I am sorry if I "sent" a similar message to the group! I was trying to erase the other letters to focus on Phil's. I think I hit the wrong key and sent it before I was done writing.... I love technology. > Hi Susan, > In southeastern North Carolina, the end of April is > a good time to see > Sarracenia in bloom. I would guess that south > Georgia would be as much as a > month ahead of this schedule. Make sure you know > where to look, as well. I > was there in early January of this year and the > rangers I spoke to had no > idea where to look for carnivorous plants in the > swamp. I was hugely > disappointed. What really got me mad is that within > view of the ranger > station there is a drainage ditch with a large > population of D. capillaris > on one side. (We went in the west entrance, BTW.) I > went back and told one > ranger, but she didn't seem to care. > > Happy hunting! > > Philip > URL du jour: http://www.drbronner.com/main.html > > PS - Re: dormancy, here in Durham, NC my CPs just > got blasted with 18 inches > of snow and some arctic cold about a week ago, so > any thoughts they had > about an early start were squashed. ################### From: Juerg Steiger Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 17:25:21 +0200 Subject: Free online translation service Dear CPers This is off-topic, but the following webpage might be of interest for some of you. It makes at no costs translations between different languages. The machine-made translations are not very good but may be useful for a first draft or for just grasping the message of a foreign language text. http://officeupdate.lhsl.com/ Kind regards Juerg ################### From: Juerg Steiger Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 17:36:05 +0200 Subject: Pinguicula antarctica Dear all Is there anyone who could sell or trade seeds or plants of Pinguicula antarctica? Please contact me privately at Kind regards Dr. Juerg F. Steiger University of Bern Faculty of Medecine, IAWF Inselspital 37a CH-3010 Bern, Switzerland Tel +41 (0)31 632 9887 Fax +41 (0)31 632 9871 ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:28:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: Sarracenia rosea: A new Sarracenia species Hey folks, I saw in the latest issue of SIDA (18:4), several authors have written a description of what they consider to be a new species of Sarracenia! This species, called Sarracenia rosea, will test the ranks of CPers the world over, as some may accept it and others may not. Essentially, it is a subpopulation of plants that, before this paper, would have been lumped with Sarracenia purpurea subsp. purpurea. Two of the authors, Case & Case, are long-time workers in Sarracenia, and their opinions should not be taken lightly... I don't have time to write more (I'm preparing for some talks and a business trip), so go to your library, get a copy of the paper, and make your own decisions. ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: CALIFCARN@aol.com Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 14:30:14 EST Subject: Re: P. macroceras nortensis I found Ivan's and Juerg's comments on this butterwort interesting. On one of my trips up to Del Norte County in late summer of 1998, with a group of CP enthusiasts from the Bay Area, I pointed out large flies and carpenter ants caught in the leaves of the plants. There were several, and it was quite amazing. Some folks took photos but I have never seen them and don't know if they came out. The scene was so impressive I suggested that the photos might make it to the cover of the CPN. In my book The Savage Garden, I mention baby praying mantis being caught on our greenhouse P. moranensis. I think the glue on butterworts is very strong, and positioned correctly (or incorrectly in the eyes of a bug!) pretty large victims can be overwhelmed. Peter at California Carnivores ################### From: "Trent Meeks" Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 12:02:13 PST Subject: Re: Sarracenia dormancy Bruce, Thanks for the input. I live about 350 miles south of the Sarracenia Zone, so winter dormancy is critical if I want to continue growing these beautiful plants. >Hi All, >I've been reading the comments about Sarracenia >sprouting flowers and new growth. In the milder >climates such as Florida I'm not surprised that these >plants are blooming about 2-4 weeks before the time >when these plants will bloom up in my part of the >country (NC). So far, only one plant of S. rubra gulfensis and S. readii are blooming in my collection, everything else is just beginning to show signs of coming out of dormancy. > Mid and lower FLorida is below most of >these species normal growing range (with the exception >of S. minor which may no longer grow that far >south....) The southern-most stand of S. minor was on the north side of Lake Okeechobee. It is now a watermellon field. Since the temps here don't remain in the >30's-40's for as many nights during a long enough >period to make a good dormancy period you may >experience a sudden growth every year. I hear people >talk about new growth this early every year! There is >a little more talk this year than in the past. To >keep your plants from sprouting this early you may >want to try a deep pine straw mulch, leave the plants >drier, in a shaded part of the yard, in a fairly windy >area to keep circulation up. I've grown these plants >for nearly 20 years this way. They love it. They >tend to take mild winters (not this one! We were >covered in snow this time around) better when >protected from the sun and occasional warm temps. My Sarracenias are in deep shade in the winter until about noon. My plants are in true dormancy starting about the third week of December through the end of February. This is not a very long dormancy period, but seems to be enough. It's worked for about four years now. I force my Sarracenias to go dormant starting on Thanksgiving day. I water them with R.O. water chilled to 35 degrees F. It's all they get other than rain. By Dec. I throw buckets of R.O. ice cubes into the trays, and "water" once a week by placing the ice in the pots at night. By the first week of Dec., the leucos put up one last batch of pitchers, and everything else slows down dramatically. The S. rubra grow underdeveloped, twisted looking traps, flava, catesbaei, leuco send up phyllodia, etc.; growing comes to a grinding halt. >Remember, some pitcher plants do begin breaking >dormancy at the end of February and the first week of >March in their most southern ranges anyway. Not to >worry! They'll survive.... they have for a long time >already. You may lose some flowers to a frost, but >the plants will do fine. Nice thing about south Florida-never gets cold enough to blast flowers, and pitchers from last fall hold up well- may get a little wind battered. I know I've only been doing this "icing down my Sarracenias" for four years, but with each spring my plants seem to be more robust and generally in better health. Until later, Trent Meeks Pompano Beach, Florida ################### From: "Trent Meeks" Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 12:24:24 PST Subject: Re: Nepenthes truncata Hi Steve, N. truncata is one of my best growers here in south Florida. I agree with Andrew. Generally, they do not like to be manhandled. I grow mine in a more porous mix than the other Nepenthes(I add medium grade pumice to the mix), and find they like a little more drying out between waterings (Again, compared to other Nepenthes). I'm sure they will tolerate lower humidity for part of the day, but that's not how you get the big pitchers. High humidity will result in big pitchers, and truncata is among the most spectacular! Also, truncata tolerates a wide range of temperatures. Until later, Trent Meeks Pompano Beach, Fl >I'd love to hear opinions on how to grow it. Andrew warns me that this >plant REALLY objects to being pruned, and doesn't much care for being repotted. >Well, I have several Orchids that are set back by repotting, so I know how to build a mix that doesn't loose it's >porousity, and >just needs occational added organics. >Anything else? >I live in the Desert Southwest. Many of my Nepenthes tolerate the low >humidity in my greenhouse just fine, once they've adapted to it. (their leaves thicken considerably, as do the pitcher walls) Will this plant tolerate summer realitive humidity near 30% in the daytime? Anybody ever try? ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 15:46:50 -0500 Subject: RE: Sarracenia rosea: A new Sarracenia species >I saw in the latest issue of SIDA (18:4), several authors have written a >description of what they consider to be a new species of Sarracenia! For those of us who don't have access to SIDA, can someone post it on their website, provided that's legal. David Atlanta ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 13:44:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: Sarracenia rosea Whoops! In my last posting I mentioned the newly published name, Sarracenia rosea. I mistakenly said this plant has been split from Sarracenia purpurea subsp. purpurea, when it was actually split from Sarracenia purpurea subsp. venosa. Sorry about that. Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: "Butler, Joe" <6butler@jmls.edu> Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 17:45:17 -0600 Subject: Ph level of Nepenthes fluid Does anyone know the ph value of the fluid contained in Nepenthes pitchers? I'm just curious. Joe Butler ################### From: "Andrew Marshall" Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 18:07:21 -0800 Subject: new e-mail address Hi Folks, Last week I announced, in hopeful tones my new e-mail address. I am now scrapping it. I have decided that despite the connectivity problem I have with my current ISP, they are minor compared to the ones I have had this week with the new address. So, andrewm@thevortex.com is no longer an address I will bother with. Please just go back to andrewm@olywa.net . Thank-you and in the meanwhile, any one who has sent me a message to the vortex address and not received a response, please re-send it to the olywa address. I know I have mail in the vortex inbox, and I can see from who, but can not get at it to answer it. When I try it takes as much as 10 minutes (timed) before I give up waiting for it to upload the mail from where ever it is hiding it. Then it takes even longer to decide what to do with it. I now know why it is called the vortex. Nothing comes back out of it with out great difficulty. Sorry for the trouble folks. Thanks for understanding. Best wishes Andrew ################### From: 8357737 Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 22:41:14 -0600 Subject: Steve Alton Hi Steve, I checked out your CP web page and tried to e-mail you about your grow list. My computer thinks your address does not exist. Is the link on your page wrong, or is my computer just ignorant? Bye, Anita (Mn. USA) [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Phill Mann" Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 01:56:44 +0800 Subject: Trapping of insects. > While seeing Pinguicula macroceras var. nortensis in its natural >sites up in Northern California I observed something which at first had >me very curios. It seemed impossible that this >plant could capture such sized insects which would seem to have no >trouble in struggling free. Many plants had housefly sized flying >insects >and a few even had great big dragon flies! Funny thing though, when I sprinkle >live fruitflies on my butterworts here at home they nearly always get >free from the plants and have no trouble doing so. So then, how can we >explain the large size of the insects which are captured in nature? Hi One point many seem to be missing with this subject is the viscosity of the sticky fluid in nature. As with the different Drosera here in West Australia in nature the fluid is far more viscous than any plants grown in cultivation with extra humidity. In the cultivated versions of any species the fluid will be "watered down" compared to in situ and this would allow for capture of larger insect. Plants grown in terrariums with very high humidity compared to nature would be inefficient in prey capture due to the thin fluid. Cheers Phill Mann P.O. Box 193 Harvey, 6220 Western Australia philmann@geo.net.au http://geo.net.au/~philmann "Light travels faster than sound" "That's why some people appear bright until they open their mouths" ################### From: "Richard Jobson" Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 16:15:19 +1100 Subject: Nepenthes pitcher pH Hey Joe, Just grabbed hold of Juniper's book, Chapter 9, and the question of pitcher fluid pH is not so straight forward. It varies between species quite a bit but the most salient feature is the reduction of pH after the trap opens. So for instance N. maxima has the biggest change from 7.0 before opening to 2.5 after opening. Other species go from 5.5 to 3.3. Therefore the pH of opened pitchers is fairly acidic. The mechanism for the change has something to do with extrusion of chlorine ions which affects potassium and hydrogen ions. When an animal falls into the fluid its proteins causes changes due to enzymes. Best, Richard. ################### From: Stephen Davis Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 23:02:37 -0800 Subject: Re: _Passiflora_foetida_ >Owen, I spent some time looking on the internet and found this wholesaler. Perhaps they can tell you who their clients are and you can have them order it. Stephen > >Does anyone have any seeds, plants, or information on >_Passiflora_foetida_, the passion flower with the >supposedly carnivorous flower bracts, available for >sale or trade? > >Anyone interested please contact me for trade >possibilities. ################### From: "St-Jean, Rob (ES.SE)" Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:50:50 -0500 Subject: Neem question Dear CP Growers, Can anyone let me know if they have safely used Neem on Nepenthes? Thanks in advance, Robert St-Jean ################### From: meadow@bealenet.com Date: Thu, 10 Feb 100 09:24:06 -500 Subject: Re: S. minor at southern limit Hi Folks: I saw the note about the demise of the southernmost stand of S. minor in Okeechobee County, Florida. According to the list serve the site was turned into a watermelon field. We wrote an article in CPN several years ago about the southernmost S. minor site in Florida for those of you who are interested. Fortunately, we have available a limited supply of propagated material from this now extinct site. If you are interested in obtaining some please contact us at meadowview@pitcherplant.org Sincerely, Phil Sheridan Director Meadowview Biological Research Station ################### From: "Michael Hunt" Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:00:42 -0500 Subject: ICPS in Yahoo A briefing appear's in the March 2000 issue of Yahoo Internet Life magazine on the ICPS FAQ's maintained by Barry Meyers-Rice. You can find it in the Cut & Paste section page 76-77. Any public relations are good, but the the article looks at website for the more bizarre, werid, novelty, and humerous aspects of the Venus Fly-Trap. ~Mike St. Petersburg Fl ################### From: "Michael Hunt" Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:05:41 -0500 Subject: ICPS renewal notice Hello, I received a postcard this week stating that my ICPS renewal had been received. It gave information on how ICPS subscriptions are processed. This is a very good idea and I feel it will please the membership. ~Mike St. Petersburg Fl ################### From: Barbro =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bergg=E5rd?= Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:43:29 +0100 Subject: SCPS Dear all, SCPS, Scandinavian Carnivorous Plant Society, is one of the exhibitor atScandinavia's largest garden exhibition. ,Since the very beginning twenty years ago, the Exhibition has developed in a positive way and the entire trade has come together at the Garden Exhibition in Sollentuna /Stockholm, Sweden. About 40,000 visitors have gardens as their major interest. The Exhibition attracts a large number of new visitors every year. The entire branch is represented among the 200 exhibitors - from leading suppliers,wholesale and retail dealers to professional organisations and interest groups,institutions and horticultural schools. We hope to see you in Sollentuna 23-26 March 2000! Barbro Berggard ___________________________________________________________ Barbro Bergg\345rd LUCRAM The Ecology Building Lund university Box 117 221 00 Lund Sweden Tel 046 222 4259 Fax 046 222 3669 http://www.lu.se/lucram ################### From: Amy Ritchie Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:26:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: keeping various pings together Even though all my previous pings died, I succeeded in building a new ping collection for myself. As of now I have: P. lutea, P. moranensis, P. prumiliflora, P. planifolia, P. caudata, P. caudata v. elheseria (did I spell that right!?), P. agnata blue flower, P. agnata violet flower, and a unknown hybrid. My question is this: I like to keep birds of a feather together, and instead of having a bunch of individual pots, I prefer to keep all my pings together in one big tray. But I know different pings have different needs. Will my pings survive if I plant all of them in a shallow 2" tray with about 1-1.5" peat moss on the bottom, and one half to 1" long-fibered sphagnum on the top? Amy http://www.homestead.com/flytraps ################### From: "Philip Semanchuk" Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 10:30:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Okefenokee Rangers (and VFT seeds) >The rangers know where the plants are. They won't >tell just anyone though....It's better for them to > play dumb... Well Bruce I will give this ranger the benefit of the doubt but she did an awfully convincing job of playing dumb! ; ) Thanks for tempering my attitude. A question for the group -- do VFT seeds benefit from stratification? Thanks Philip URL du jour: http://www.drbronner.com/main.html ################### From: schlauer@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 16:58:14 +0000 Subject: Re: keeping various pings together Dear Amy, > P. caudata v. elheseria (did I spell that right!?) That depends on what you meant. I suppose it should be _P. ehlersiae_. This is not a variety of _P. caudata_ (AKA _P. moranensis_) but a rather different species. But maybe you have a hybrid between the two. Kind regards Jan ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 11:28:14 -0500 Subject: RE: Sarracenia rosea: A new Sarracenia species >I saw in the latest issue of SIDA (18:4), several authors have written a >description of what they consider to be a new species of Sarracenia! I have the local library checking out this magazine but they can't find it. What does SIDA stand for? David Atlanta ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:45:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: Florida Trip Hey folks, Barry Meyers-Rice here. I'm going to be on a business trip in Orlando Florida (and area) 11 - 21 of this month. Anyone in that area who want to get together and chat plants, or whatever, feel free to give me a call at the Hyatt Orlando. I don't know the room number, etc etc yet. Cheers Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: Hayes7@aol.com Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 13:21:43 EST Subject: Re: keeping various pings together Amy, My .02 I have found that the pings from the SE US like a lot of sand in their mix... Almost all sand on the top inch of the mix and 50/50 peat sand in the rest of the mix. Perhaps you could divide the tray in half? I lost much of my mexican ping collection in a fertilizing disaster and want to get it started again. If anybody has large plants and wants to set up a trade for spring, drop me a note with what you will have available and what you would like in return. Take care, -Tom Hayes www.dangerousplants.com > My question is this: I like to keep birds of a feather > together, and instead of having a bunch of individual > pots, I prefer to keep all my pings together in one > big tray. But I know different pings have different > needs. Will my pings survive if I plant all of them in > a shallow 2" tray with about 1-1.5" peat moss on the > bottom, and one half to 1" long-fibered sphagnum on > the top? ################### From: Kris Kopicki Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 16:36:00 +1030 Subject: Re: Trapping of insects. > One point many seem to be missing with this subject is the viscosity of the > sticky fluid in nature. > As with the different Drosera here in West Australia in nature the fluid is > far more viscous than any plants grown in cultivation with extra humidity. > In the cultivated versions of any species the fluid will be "watered down" > compared to in situ and this would allow for capture of larger insect. > Plants grown in terrariums with very high humidity compared to nature > would be inefficient in prey capture due to the thin fluid. Hi, I'd agree with that. I keep my pygmy drosera hot and relatively dry, and they have no problems catching moths and butterflys which are often much bigger than the plants. regards, Kris ################### From: "Susan Farrington" Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 06:55:30 -0600 Subject: Re: keeping pings together Amy, P. primuliflora should definitely be excluded from the rest of the pings... it likes it considerably wetter than the rest. I've had good luck growing it in a sand/peat mix with live sphagnum on top of the media. I keep it in one of the lower sections of my bog, or plant it in containers with Sarracenia that like to be pretty wet all summer. The OTHER pings like it drier and could perhaps all do well together... I like an equal mix of sand, peat, perlite and long-fibered sphagnum for these pings: they like a well drained media, and they don't like to SIT in water at any time of the year. Good luck! (P.lutea can be difficult and/or shortlived... it does like it drier, though, so perhaps it can live with the others.) I apolize for forgetting to send you the Mexican ping that I promised to send you, but it sounds like you're well outfitted at the moment! Susan > Even though all my previous pings died, I succeeded in > building a new ping collection for myself. As of now I > have: P. lutea, P. moranensis, P. prumiliflora, P. > planifolia, P. caudata, P. caudata v. elheseria (did I > spell that right!?), P. agnata blue flower, P. agnata > violet flower, and a unknown hybrid. > My question is this: I like to keep birds of a feather > together, and instead of having a bunch of individual > pots, I prefer to keep all my pings together in one > big tray. But I know different pings have different > needs. Will my pings survive if I plant all of them in > a shallow 2" tray with about 1-1.5" peat moss on the > bottom, and one half to 1" long-fibered sphagnum on > the top? Susan Farrington Missouri Botanical Garden P.O. Box 299 St. Louis MO 63166-0299 susan.farrington@mobot.org (314)577-9402 ################### From: Dionaea@aol.com Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 07:55:24 EST Subject: Looking for Angela Nichols Angela Nichols, if you are on this list, could you send me an email at Dionaea@aol.com Thanks. Christoph ################### From: "Aaron M. Ellison" Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:21:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: Sida & S. rosea Dave Mellard asked about the journal Sida. Sida is the name of the journal. If you can't get the journal, you can get a copy of the article (for $13.00) faxed to you or delivered via internet from Uncover http://uncweb.carl.org/ aaron ellison ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 15:52:24 +0100 Subject: News on Nepenthes and Heliamphora Dear CP-growers, the new pricelist is almost ready (a bit late this year, I admit...). The number one highlight included is _Heliamphora neblinae_ !!! I do not want to misuse this server by posting the list or prices here. If you wish to receive the list by e-mail as soon as it's ready (within the coming days) as well as updates on the list later this year, please send a mail with exactly the following subject line: list2000 Send your message to: nepenthes@wistuba.com Bye and good growing Andreas Wistuba ################### From: "Michael Hunt" Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:40:47 -0500 Subject: gulf coastal Pinguicula- planifolia/primuliflora Hello Amy, I can only answer for the southeastern USA Pinguicula. P. primuliflora and P. planifolia can be grown together, but P. planifolia requires much higher amounts of light to achieve its best coloration. My best results are using shallow bulb pans and I place these into deeper trays always keeping wet. Often flooding to having water cover the whole plant. A mixture of milled sphagnum and sand with a topping of live sphagnum is my mix. P. ionantha and P. planifolia are frequently found growing together in habitat and where this occurs they are in sloppy wet to shallow flooded areas. I have never found P. planifolia in a drier natural habitat, and where they do grow in very wet conditions they are very vigorous. A interesting observation on both P. ionantha & P. planifolia when they are grown at times in shallow water their leaves will move to point straight up to stick above the water. In the bog garden P. planifolia is planted in the lowest part of the bog with D. tracyi, S. psittacenia, S. purpurea venosa and I notice the same leaf movement after a heavy rain and they are submerged for a period of time. For P. primulifora I like to use deep containers, no drainage, and long fiber sphagnum growing them water logged year round. They will rot easy, but in strong light they do well. They can be acclimated to more light then I once thought possible. These plants appear less prone to rotting off, yet the growth is more compact. Take care, ~Mike St. Petersburg Fl ################### From: Ivan Snyder Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:17:42 -0800 Subject: Killer Pings! Hi Peter and all, Peter wrote: >I found Ivan's and Juerg's comments on this butterwort interesting. On one of >my trips up to Del Norte County in late summer of 1998, with a group of CP >enthusiasts from the Bay Area, I pointed out large flies and carpenter ants >caught in the leaves of the plants. There were several, and it was quite >amazing. Ivan here, Amazing, I'll say! I had just sent letters to Juerg Steiger and Paul Temple telling that I did not believe that ants would be seen captured by butterworts in nature. These powerful insects I felt would only sleep in their colony at night and not sit on a butterwort leaf long. Also, these insects have no wings which make other bugs more easy prey. Guess your observation blows away my theory, dang! I just spoke to Ed Read on this. He and Leo Song working together at Cal State Fullerton are assembling what they expect will be the largest collection of pings. Leo grows and hybridizes while Ed does tissue culture. Ed told me this interesting news: As you may have read before, P. ayautla has sparse retentive glands also on the back surface of the leaf. Leo has another relative of P. agnata with still more glands. They just found that one of their hybrids raised invetro has glands as densely packed on both sides of the leaves, imagine that, ...an ultra-killer ping! I just got a picture in my head of a hybrid with maybe P. moctezuma having long upright leaves sticky all-over. This would be quite spectacular. Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ################### From: Juerg Steiger Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 18:58:24 +0200 Subject: Re: Killer Pings! >Amazing, I'll say! I had just sent letters to Juerg Steiger and Paul >Temple telling that I did not believe that ants would be seen captured by >butterworts in nature. I remember to have read a paper saying that one of the main prey of Ping. nevadensis (endemism of the Sierra Nevada in Spain) are ants. Just don't remember the authors name here in my office. Juerg ################### From: Paul Temple Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 19:33:27 +0000 Subject: Re: keeping various pings together >As of now I have: P. lutea, P. moranensis, P. prumiliflora, P. >planifolia, P. caudata, P. caudata v. elheseria (did I >spell that right!?), P. agnata blue flower, P. agnata >violet flower, and a unknown hybrid. Amy, you can safely keep some of those species together in a single tray. However, P. moranensis (and "P. caudata" which is also P. moranensis - but keep it labelled a P. caudata!) is a very large plant and would easily overgrow almost anything given half a chance, so it deserves its own pot or tray. Then P. planifolia and P. lutea are different from each other and from all the rest so ideally need to be treated differently. The rest can be together but as P. agnata generally dislikes too much water in winter you will need to keep the tray drier in winter than might be necessary for other plants. Generally, the reason why people suffer so many plant losses is that we all like to keep them in nice simple conditions that save us time and energy. This often means all the plants are treated the same. Unfortunately, plants are like people so if you treat any two exactly the same, at least one of them will be less than fully happy! As to a two inch deep tray, justabout all the Pinguiculas have very shallow roots so certainly all that you mentioned and most othrs will be quite able to root as well as necessary in such a shallow pot. But as it is so shallow you will need to be careful not to let the soil get too wet. Contrary to popular opinion many of them grow in areas where the soil or rock is rarely wet. It's often just damp. Hope this helps. Regards Paul ################### From: "mike wilder" Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 21:25:48 GMT Subject: address for a. slack?/ping question hello, 1. does anyone have a mailing address for adrian slack? 2. does anyone know the name of the ping illustrated in "insect eating plants and how to grow them" as 'harold weiner's species novae no. 4'? is anyone in the us growing this plant? thanks in advance--mike ################### From: "E. PARTRAT & B. BERNARD" Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:59:06 +0100 Subject: 'harold weiner's species novae no. 4'? This species is called Pinguicula reticulta or P. rotundiflora in the French version of A. Slack's book. But it should be in fact P. rotundiflora and not the first one. Hope this help. With best regards E. PARTRAT ################### From: j.dewitte@t-online.de (Jean-Pierre De Witte) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:58:45 GMT Subject: clipeata - seeds I was away all week (Orlando, business only) so I didn't see Cliff's remarks on the clipeata hybrids till yesterday. Going back throough my notes of 1955, there were indeed three kind of seeds. I recorded clipeata, clipeata? and (clipeata*emay)*clipeata. I recieved several seedlings of clipeata from the owner of the male plant (which is not the Botanical Garden of Munich by the way). They are standing in the greenhouse and grow very slowly. The seeds I got from Munich were almost exlusively the hybrid form, and they germinated 100%. Some of the plants have 50 cm across and with me don't show much of clipeata. The fact that they are (clipeata*emay) crossed with clipeata might explain the appearance of more specific clipeata features in some of the plants (where the clipeata features of the male parent dominate and could create something like a clipeata back-cross) and not at all in others. On another subject: I am closely watching the different nepenthes seeds I put out last month. Oldest ones to germinate (after less than 30 days!) are seeds from 1992 (I don't have older ones!). I have now 5 species (varying in origin from 1992 to 1996) that are germinating within what I used for nepenthes, altough 30m days is short. Regardless of how many more will germinate, this proves (for me) that the shelf life of nepenthes seeds is larger than assumed. Regards to all, Jean-Pierre De Witte mailto: j.dewitte@t-online.de Time: 08:21:12 http://www.jeandewitte.de This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- ################### From: bruce dudley Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 07:00:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Adrian Slack I was hoping to get Adrian Slack's email one day, too. Is it possible to post it on the list serve? If not, would you email individually Mike? Thanks! Bruce ################### From: JScott9653@aol.com Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 13:38:09 EST Subject: D. burmannii? Hello I would like to know if D. burmannii needs any stratification before planting its seeds. thanks jscott ################### From: osito@intraweb.cl (Jose Gengler L.) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 15:38:44 -0400 Subject: foot candles to lumens Hi! I have been looking at James and Patricia Pietropaolo's book entitled "Carnivorous Plants of the World". It is a very technical, sinthetic, and full of wise advises. Units come both in metric and american systems. I am very glad I bought that book. But one thing has got my attention. They measure luminosity in foot candles, a unit they say is widespread. All the literature I have been reviewing measures luminosity in lumens. I don't know the relationship between these two units. I supose it is not a linear relatinship. I would greatly appreciate if someone shares a conversion formula. Note: I haven't been able to see this message in the list. That's why I am sendinf it again. Thnks, ################### From: osito@intraweb.cl (Jose Gengler L.) Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 15:38:44 -0400 Subject: CPs in Chile Hi! I don't know if you guys remember my project. I have been trying to introduce cps in Chile (some that are not found at all in my country, and others that maybe I would find but at the price of possible echological damage or very hard trips to the extremes and mountains of this place of the world). The paperwork has been so hard (since Chile has very strict phitosanitary regulations due to the fact that it is isolated as an island from certain pests), that I have been trying to do this for about a year or more, and sometimes I lost hope. That's why I lost contact with the list, but I would very gladly welcome if you write to me so we can begin to write again. The species that I try to cultivate mostly from seed to minimize paperwork include Drosera, vft, Utricularia and Sarracenia, all temlate climate varieties. I also have Red Dragon vft living plant. I started using a 120 x 40 x 30 cm terrarium (length, height, depth) under controlled conditions. Here in Chile now we are in summer, temperatures in the terrarium rangeing from 20 to 35\272C. Humidity inside it is 40 to 60%. Luminosity is achieved using fluorescent tubes that add up to about 1500 lumens at the pot surface. The setup is working just about one week and I already have two Drosera seedlings, and the vft plant has its first tiny chilean fytraps developed. No pests are aparent so far. Material was obtained from Cook's Carnivorous Plants via airmail, very well packed. Thanks to all of you that shared knowledge and experience with me all this time. I am very happy to be aboard again. Note: I haven't been able to see this message in the list. That's why I am sendinf it again. Take care, ################### From: "Dave Evans" Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 14:00:16 -0500 Subject: Re: D. burmannii? No. Dave Evans > I would like to know if D. burmannii needs any stratification before > planting its seeds. ################### From: "Dave Evans" Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 13:58:59 -0500 Subject: Nepenthes taxonomy Dear Dr. Jan Schlauer and Peter (of CA Carnivore's), I have a couple questions about some Nepenthes I have. I have a copy of _Blumea_ Vol 42, No 1, BTW. I still have not gotten a good idea about the differences between _N.ventricosa_ and _N.burkei._ When I read Jebb and Cheek's revision, it states, "The present species can be distinguished by the less strongly waisted, green-blotched purple pitchers with lib as large as mouth and with 6 or 7 pairs of nerves. In _N. ventricosa_ the pitchers are more narrowly waisted, glossy yellowish white, with lids much smaller than the mouth and with only 3-4 pairs of lognitubinal vein in the leaf-blade." Could someone please explain what nerves they are refering to? Also, I don't really see much comparison in this paragraph. About the only difference made appearent was that ventricosa has much smaller lids on the pitchers. Well, I checked all three of my flowering size ventricosa/burkei plants and found that they all have three longituudinal veins in the leaf-blade. Two of them (one of which was supposedly col lected from where _N.burkei_ is found) have red pitchers and are strongly waisted. Infact the only difference I found between the three that the one with the pale pitchers tends to produce pitchers with slightly smaller lids, though all three have the same shape. On the other the red-pitchered plants the peristome tends to be a bit flatter, where as the other's peristomes are tend to be more rounded... I can only think that these are merely personal differences and that they are all N.ventricosa, but maybe I missed the "nerves." [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Dave Evans" Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 17:24:47 -0500 Subject: Nepenthes taxonomy part 2 Hi Jan and Peter, I don't how that last mail got out, I deferred it because I still had to check for typos and it was incomplete. Peter is probably wondering why I mentioned him... Anyway, I have two other Nepenthes that have me confused (well, more than two have me confused, but I'm only asked about two right now ;). Both are supposedly _N. alata._ One is called N.alata 'Boshiana Mimic' this one is glabrous. The pitchers are very ventricose in the bottom 1/3, the middle is tubular, and the top 1/3 is funnel shaped. In fact the bottom ventricose part of these pitchers meets the rest of the pitcher at quite an angle because it is so swollen. The lid is flat with two veins and there is an appendage at the base of the lid. The lid and the opening of the pitcher are very round. The second plant, also called _N. alata,_ differs from the first by having a dense covering of very short white hairs on the pitcher and tendril, the tendril insertion on the upper leaves is a bit peltate. The pitcher opening is twice as long as wide as is the lid which is bent similar to the lids of _N.clipeata_, like an dome. This plant is outlined in red and the pitchers are completely blood red, there are numerous glands on the pitchers and tendril and they are quite obvious, while the first plant has fewer and smaller glands. I really doubt these are both the same species. So I wonder where Peter got the first one as it reminds me more of the description of _N.eustachya_ in that the base is so angular and the plant is glabrous. However, on both plants the spur is simple. Also Jebb and Cheek mention a sub-peltate leaf tip for _N.eustachya_ but it's the furry plant that has this feature, not the glabrous one.... It seems the more I try to figure these plants out the more confusing it gets. I'm going to try to contact the grower I received plant two from, perhaps he can provide me the location data. Anyway, here is a link to a photo that looks almost exactly like my plant #2, (it shows the long openning of the pitcher, you guys sure this plant really belongs under _N.alata_?): http://www.hpl.hp.com/botany/public_html/cp/pictures/nepenthe/0064.htm [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: strega@split.it (Tassara) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 09:41:47 +0100 Subject: Genlisea filiformis Hi list! My Genlisea filiformis is starting producing a flower stalk. As it is told to be an annual, I know one day it will die. Does anybody know if it will pass away after flowering or in the autumn, after maybe producing more flowers? Thank you and good growing! Filippo Tassara Genoa, Italy ################### From: "norman francis" Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 11:49:52 +0200 Subject: silicone Silicone is not the same substance as silicon Sent by Medscape Mail: FREE Portable E-mail for Professionals on the Move http://www.medscape.com ################### From: DeepDown Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 20:31:28 +0100 Subject: Does anyone of you live in norway, Oslo ? Anyone now where I can find cheap plants in norway. I'm looking for different kinds of plants. (I already have the ordinary species of pinguicula, nepenthes, venus) I know that near Okern, where they distribute flowers they have a whole selection of flowers. But privat persons are not allowed to enter. (could you give me a referee?) Hope you can be of help. Regards, Stig Henning ----- ################### From: "Fernando Rivadavia-Lopes" Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 00:18:57 -0300 Subject: San Francisco trip To all, I've just returned from a 2-week work-related trip to San Francisco. I wasn't sure if I'd have the time to meet any CPers while I was there, so I surprised a few calling them up out of the blue! Unfortunately I couldn't meet with all of them, but it was great to at least talk to people I've known through e-mail and snail mail for so many years. I spent a fantastic afternoon at California Carnivores with Peter D'Amato and Marilee as well as Barry Meyers-Rice and Beth -- none of whom I knew personally. The place is really amazing and I saw some beautiful plants. I'll definitely have to get another work trip to SF during the summer to see Peter's green house in full throttle! Not to mention drive up to Darlingtonia territory and see them in the wild..... a longtime dream! I also met up with Geof Wong and spent several hours talking with him at his lovely house. I was amazed with his beautiful CP collection (and I thought he only had a few of my Genlisea!) and clicked away numerous pictures. Thanks for the wonderful time guys, I really enjoyed it! Hope to meet more CPers next time I'm up there -- hopefully during the SF ICPS Congress (if I can make it!). Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia Sao Paulo, Brazil ################### From: "Fernando Rivadavia-Lopes" Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 00:25:16 -0300 Subject: Helis on Mt.Neblina To Ivan and all, > Last year I aquired about 100 wild collected seed of Heliamphora >which was collected by a group of CP nuts who climbed Mount Neblina. The >seed was a mix of both H. neblina and tatei. Slight mix-up here. The two species up there were H.tatei var.neblinae and a new species we're calling H.sp."Neblina". The latter was more abundant and occurred in pure populations. H.t.neblinae was only found in one small site where each clone was VERY differente from the next and we're still not sure about the degrees of hybridization with H.sp."Neblina", which grew around there as well. Or maybe it was just extremely variable -- looking more like Sarracenia sometimes (see pics on Andreas Wistuba's and my own homepage). Hell, the impression I got was that Heli taxonomy is simply impossible to solve! It's evolutionary origin appears to have been very recent. Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia Sao Paulo, Brazil ################### From: "Fernando Rivadavia-Lopes" Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 00:31:24 -0300 Subject: G.aurea Hi Richard, >Anyone with stubborn little plants of Genlisea aurea could try >submersing the pot. I tried this and the plants took off immediately. >I suspect that they may be semi-aquatic in habit (Fernando should know). Usually they grow in very boggy seepages and the rosettes are covered by a thin film of cold water. >It will be great when the full monograph comes out for this amazing >Genus, does anyone know anything about this work? Yes, it's been sacked years ago. I think it was wishful thinking on Peter Taylor's behalf. I talked to Elza Fromm-Trinta a few years ago and discovered she was retired. There I was trying to tell her what a wonderful plant G.uncinata was (she'd described this species in the early 80's based on a few small herbarium specimens -- and I'd just recently found it in the wild) and all she could talk about was her young grandaughter. A bit frustrating, to say the least! Apparently, like Taylor, she doesn't want to look back on Lentibulariaceae unfortunately... Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia Sao Paulo, Brazil ################### From: "Fernando Rivadavia-Lopes" Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 00:43:42 -0300 Subject: African Genlisea Hi again Richard, >Just wondering if anyone out there grows Africa species of >Genlisea such as G. africana, G. pallida? G. hispidula seems to be >widely cultivated but what of the other Africans. If anyone grows African Genlisea other than G.hispidula, I'd say it's the people at the Bonn Botanic Garden. When we were there for the ICPS congress, they didn't have any live ones, but were studying the herborized ones they'd collected on previous trips there. Maybe they'vereturned and brought back live ones... Anyways, African Genlisea are a huge question mark and desperately need to be studied further in their native habitats and in cultivation. Volunteers??? :) Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia Sao Paulo, Brazil ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 08:33:23 Subject: Re: Nepenthes taxonomy Dear Dave, > I still have not gotten a good idea about the differences between > _N.ventricosa_ and _N.burkei._ What you (and most other growers) have in cultivation is most probably several growth forms (impossible to classify in defined distinct taxa) of the rather widespread (both in the wild and in cultivation) _N. ventricosa_. It is very questionable if any true _N. burkei_ is in cultivation at all. The plant originally introduced seems to have disappeared. Type specimens, leaving little doubt about the features of true _N. burkei_, are extant at K, however. > Could someone please explain what nerves they are refering to? The longitudinal nerves (veins) running through the leaf-like, flattened lower part of the leaves. > Also, I don't really see much comparison in this paragraph. I hope you see a difference between 3-4 and 6-7! > About the only difference made appearent was that > ventricosa has much smaller lids on the pitchers. This is probably not a very useful difference between the species. > Well, I checked > all three of my flowering size ventricosa/burkei plants and found > that they all have three longituudinal veins in the leaf-blade. This is not very likely. I suppose your plants have at least three *pairs* of longitudinal nerves in the leaves. In this case you have a nice confirmation of the identity of your plants with _N. ventricosa_. > Two of them (one of which was supposedly collected from where > _N.burkei_ is found) Where exactly? --------------- > One is called N.alata 'Boshiana Mimic' this one is glabrous. This is straightforward _N. alata_ originally distributed by H. Weiner. It does not have anything in common with _N. boschiana_. > The second plant, also called _N. alata,_ differs from the first by > having a dense covering of very short white hairs on the pitcher > and tendril, the tendril insertion on the upper leaves is a bit > peltate. This may be either _N. alata_ or _N. eustachya_. The two are very similar (especially _N. alata_ is excessively variable) and cannot be distinguished reliably without location data. > So I wonder where Peter got the first one as it reminds me more of > the description of _N.eustachya_ Not at all! _N. eustachya_ does AFAIK *never* have an appendage on the lower lid surface. > to contact the grower I received plant two from, perhaps he can > provide me the location data. This would be quite helpful. Kind regards Jan ################### From: (Howard J. Wu L.Ac) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 8:46:50 +0000 Subject: Re:Genlisea filiformis One of my new genlisea filiformis has started to bloom too. Hope this isn't so. Howard Wu, Bishop, California USA > Hi list! > > My Genlisea filiformis is starting producing a flower stalk. As it is >told to be an annual, I know one day it will die. Does anybody know if it >will pass away after flowering or in the autumn, after maybe producing >more flowers? > > Thank you and good growing! > > Filippo Tassara Genoa, Italy > > Howard J. Wu Bishop Ca. mrwu@qnet.com ################### From: Steve Clancy Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 10:18:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Sarracenia rosea: A new Sarracenia species Baryy, Are you talking about the journal "SIDA, contributions to botany"? If so, could you give us a more complete citation to the article? I'd like to get this via interlibrary loan, but they require as much info as possible as to author names, title, etc. Thanks, --steve Steve Clancy MLS, Science Library, Univ. of California, Irvine P.O. Box 19556, Irvine, CA 92623-9556 U.S.A. 949-824-7309 * http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~sclancy * sclancy@uci.edu *---------------------------------------------------------------------* "Last night I played a blank tape at full blast. The mime next door went nuts." *---------------------------------------------------------------------* On Wed, 9 Feb 2000, Barry Meyers-Rice wrote: > > Hey folks, > > I saw in the latest issue of SIDA (18:4), several authors have written a > description of what they consider to be a new species of Sarracenia! > > This species, called Sarracenia rosea, will test the ranks of CPers the > world over, as some may accept it and others may not. Essentially, it is a > subpopulation of plants that, before this paper, would have been lumped > with Sarracenia purpurea subsp. purpurea. > > Two of the authors, Case & Case, are long-time workers in Sarracenia, and > their opinions should not be taken lightly... I don't have time to write > more (I'm preparing for some talks and a business trip), so go to your > library, get a copy of the paper, and make your own decisions. > > ------------------------ > Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice > Carnivorous Plant Newsletter > Conservation Coeditor > barry@carnivorousplants.org > http://www.carnivorousplants.org > ################### From: Steve Clancy Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 10:24:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: D. burmannii? D. burmannii is essentially and annual that tends to die back after making seeds. If you want to keep a continuing collection, save the seed and resow it. The seed doesn't require stratification. --steve Steve Clancy MLS, Science Library, Univ. of California, Irvine P.O. Box 19556, Irvine, CA 92623-9556 U.S.A. 949-824-7309 * http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~sclancy * sclancy@uci.edu *---------------------------------------------------------------------* "Last night I played a blank tape at full blast. The mime next door went nuts." *---------------------------------------------------------------------* On Sat, 12 Feb 2000 JScott9653@aol.com wrote: > Hello > > I would like to know if D. burmannii needs any stratification before > planting its seeds. > thanks jscott > ################### From: S.Ippenberger@t-online.de (Ippenberger) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 21:49:30 +0100 Subject: Cultivation of Aldrovanda Hello all, I want to share my experience with indoor growing of Aldrovanda. Saerching the old cp-lists for information I found a very helpful message of Paul Temple dated from 02 Jan 96. I made a similar setup: 40l aquarium, 2 cm of sphagnum moss peat, 4-5cm of aquarium sand, rainwater, heater keeping temperature about 25Celsius, all put on a south faced windowsill plus a window cleaning fish (Ancistrus I think). No aerator or artificial light was used. I obtained a small piece (1cm)of Aldrovanda (Australian strain, Darwin, thank you M.!) branched into two really tiny growing points and put it into the aquarium. First I got an algae invasion of filamentous algae overgrowing the small Aldrovanda. I added boron hoping to control algae and stabilise the Aldrovanda but it didnot work on algae. (Yes, I know, it is a nutrition factor). Then I added ToruMin, a peat made blackwater-extract used in fishkeeping. And interesting I got rid of algae within two days. Now the water color is light tea brown and maintained by ToruMin addition every 3 or 4 weeks. The 2 Aldrovanda plants grew to a length of 15 and 10 cm, the bigger one branching now. Hopefully they will turn red with increasing daylight soon. I think that ToruMin together with peat is an excellent medium to control filamentous algae. Hope this helps some Aldrovanda growers! My Polish strain plants are still in the fridge and quite green! Stefan ################### From: "David J. Collier, MD" Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 16:24:05 -0800 Subject: Need Advice for Trip to Florida I will be spending a week in Bradenton (just south of Tampa), Florida, in mid-March. Can anyone advise on interesting carnivorous plant activities, including viewing plants in the wild and visiting nurseries? David Collier dcollier@mail.med.upenn.edu ################### From: Owen Priddle Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 20:58:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: Nepenthes clearance Hello all- Sorry to use the list in this way, but... I, for various reasons, am disposing of the Nepenthes in my collection. I have a nice selection of specimens; some are from TC, some are cuttings, all are fully established and most are pitchering. I am interested primarily in SELLING them. I have: N. alata v. elongata N. alata "Palawan" (copelandii?) N. ampullaria "red with gold peristome" N. bellii N. distillatoria 'rubra' N. glabratus "Palo Alto" N. gymnaphora "purple" N. lowii N. x mixta (original 1800s clone) N. northiana N. petiolata OR spec. nova "Mindanao" #1 * N. petiolata OR spec. nova "Mindanao" #2 * N. sibuyanensis N. vietchii "Lowland" N. x (vietchii x albomarginata) N. wilkei * one of these is N. petiolata, and one is a new species. I just don't know which is which. Anyways, interested parties please e-mail me privately. First come first serve. Thanks- -Owen ################### From: JWi5770869@aol.com Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 04:51:55 EST Subject: Address Please! Dear All, You wrote: >I, for various reasons, am disposing of the Nepenthes >in my collection. I have a nice selection of I honestly do not mind individuals selling on this listserve (and hopefully this won't re-open old wounds!) but it is irritating, to say the least, when on an international list,the seller doesn't let us know where they are from. John Wilden Southport Lancs. UK ################### From: "Joe Harden" Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:12:54 -0600 Subject: Mutant Drosera Blooms...RUN! I had a very odd occurance in my greenhouse these past few weeks. I have 4 Drosera capensis in bloom, and two of them have formed a single bloom stalk with TWO flower stalks on the end! I stuck a picture at my site for anyone interested -- http://www.carnivorous-kingdom.com/dblbloom.jpg Has anyone else ever had this happen? I'm hoping they make viable seed, a 2 for 1 deal and all. One of the other blooms, which is a single-stalk, produced almost 30 individual flowers so far, I never had that many before. I guess I just got a fertile house. ALSO....I just got a new Digital Camcorder, and it can zoom in very close to the leaves..so expect some new close-ups of dead bugs! woo hoo! I saw something at Best Buy called 'Dazzle' which can transfer full-motion video and sound to the Computer -- into Real-Video format. I'm thinking about getting the camera on a tripod and zoom in on Venus Flytraps & Sundews, and catch some footage of insects getting caught, then share the gruesome footage with all. If anyone has footage they would like to convert, e-mail me. If I could figure out stop-motion video, a video of blooms over the period of weeks would be very cool too...hmmm... Joe Harden www.carnivorous-kingdom.com [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: Todd Wuest Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 17:18:12 -0600 Subject: Neem someone asked if neem oil was safe for use on neps, so far it has been for me, the only problems seem to have been because of the soap its formulated with so it can be applied as a spray but the only plant that really didn't like this was n. northiana, and it recovered quickly w/ just a little bit of leaf burn. unfortuneatly its not always effective stuff in my experience and even though it is so safe that it is used as a medicine in india, the disease its primarily used to prevent is pregnancy, it affects both men and women, the neem i mean. take it easy todd wuest ################### From: "Berwick Toyota" Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 10:19:07 +1100 Subject: Web Site Hi everyone, Over the past couple of weeks, I have been building a web site, devoted to (you guessed it) CPs! It's still partially under construction, but have a look anyway. I appreciate any feedback. Its at www.sympac.com.au/~bampton --------------------------------------------- Paul Edwards, Bampton Park, Neerim South, Victoria. Australia. edwards@net2000.com.au --------------------------------------------- ################### From: "Paul Edwards" Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 12:35:43 +1100 Subject: My last e-mail Sorry, sent my previous message from my work e-mail, not private. Any replies, please send to edwards@net2000.com.au, or to bampton@sympac.com.au. Confused?, ! am to ! :-) Paul. >Hi everyone, > >Over the past couple of weeks, I have been building a web site, devoted to >(you guessed it) CPs! >It's still partially under construction, but have a look anyway. I >appreciate any feedback. >Its at www.sympac.com.au/~bampton --------------------------------------------- Paul Edwards, Bampton Park, Neerim South, Victoria. Australia. edwards@net2000.com.au --------------------------------------------- ################### From: Justin Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 22:20:45 -0500 Subject: subscribe please put me on the mailing list. Thanks! Justin Pile ################### From: "Diane Charette" Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 02:06:39 -0500 Subject: Re:Mutant Drosera Blooms...RUN! Hi, I had several times this kind of flower stalk on my D.capensis, and the seeds are very viable, as any D.capensis seeds:) So hope you'll be happy to be crowded by twice seeds as usual;) It's perhaps because the plant is happy... i don't know... but i have an orchid who do 2-3 flowers by pseudobulb when it is really happy, and only one when it is not too bad, so its perhaps the same things. Btw, i just browse on you web page, which i had never seen before, and it is really great!! i like it:) Keep growing and posting cp photo:) Take care Tom P.S. Do anyone know if it is possible to rent a digital camera? Thanx [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Greg Bourke" Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 19:00:22 EST Subject: Re: Crazy capensis I have some silly D. capensis in my collection also. I have had flower spikes which branch up to 10 times with up to maybe eighty flowers. These same plants had normal flower spikes on them last year as far as I remember. I don't know if the seed will produce plants with similar abnormalities but I have stacks of it. I also had a Cephalotus which had a 12 petaled flower this year. ################### From: bruce dudley Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 03:18:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: replies to sellers/collectors Topic No. 1 > Dear All, > You wrote: > > >I, for various reasons, am disposing of the > Nepenthes > >in my collection. I have a nice selection of > > I honestly do not mind individuals selling on this > listserve (and hopefully > this won't re-open old wounds!) but it is > irritating, to say the least, when > on an international list,the seller doesn't let us > know where they are from. > > John Wilden > Southport > Lancs. > UK Hello John, I remember this seller/grower wanting offers to be given over his email address. Try leaving him an email and I'm sure he will give you the specifics. No need to share all of that information here. I appreciate anyone who will offer a chance to increase my collection of species I enjoy growing. So, maybe you are a little less irritated now. Bruce ################### From: "Bill & Cindy Miller" Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 09:26:59 -0500 Subject: papers I don't know much about this list, so I am hoping my request is appropriate. My twin 15 year old sons are involved in two different science fair projects under the mentorship of Phil Sheridan of the Meadowview Biological Research Station in Virginia. They are growing Aldrovanda indoors with some good success so far--one of them has won 1st place in his high school science fair (credit Phil!) and the other is beginning to add associate plants to the medium. His research has taken him through a 97 paper by Breckpot that refers to two others: Kaminski, R. 1987a: Studies on the ecology of Aldrovanda vesiculosa L. I. Ecological differentiation of A. vesiculosa population under the influences of chemical factors in the hapitat. Ekol. Polska 35, 559-590 and its companion paper: Kaminski R, 1987b: Studies on the ecology of aldrovanda vesiculosa L. II. Organic substances, phisycia and biotic factors and the growth and development of A. Vesiculosa, Ekol. Polska 35, 591-609. 87b seems to be the one of more direct interest. I am hoping by appealing to this list that someone out there in the plant community could send us a copy, or tell me how to find these for him. Our local library is not much help with these (to them) obscure journals. I, of course, will be happy to pay any costs involved. Thank you so much Cindy Miller for Mark and Michael Miller--budding botonists! [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "John Green" Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 08:13:52 -0700 Subject: Re:Mutant Drosera Blooms...RUN! >I had a very odd occurance in my greenhouse these >past few weeks. I have 4 Drosera capensis in bloom, >and two of them have formed a single bloom stalk with >TWO flower stalks on the end! >Has anyone else ever had this happen? I'm hoping they >make viable seed, a 2 for 1 deal and all. I've seen this several times on my D. capensis. I think I've usually ended up with about 40 to 50 flowers on it. I've been told it is uncommon, but not rare, to have a double flower stalk. And yes, it will produce viable seed (lots!). John Green Salt Lake City, Utah ################### From: schlauer@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 16:46:50 +0000 Subject: Re: papers Dear Cindy, > Kaminski, R. 1987a: Studies on the ecology of Aldrovanda > vesiculosa L. I. Ecological differentiation of A. vesiculosa > population under the influences of chemical factors in the hapitat. > Ekol. Polska 35, 559-590 > > and its companion paper: > > Kaminski R, 1987b: Studies on the ecology of aldrovanda vesiculosa > L. II. Organic substances, phisycia and biotic factors and the > growth and development of A. Vesiculosa, Ekol. Polska 35, 591-609. > > 87b seems to be the one of more direct interest. > > I am hoping by appealing to this list that someone out there in the > plant community could send us a copy, or tell me how to find these > for him. Our local library is not much help with these (to them) > obscure journals. I can obtain both of these "obscure" papers and can send copies to you but this would take several weeks (or even a month) and cost approximately DM 2.50 (xerox, 25 double pages reduced to A4) + DM 16 (air mail 250g) = DM 18.50 (9.25 US$). Do you want me to try this it or do you need a more rapid/cheaper source? Kind regards Jan ################### From: "Andreas Krassnigg" Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 11:54:34 -0000 Subject: Nepenthes seedlings dear listmembers, it was my first (successful) try to germinate some N. madagascariensis seed (which were sent to me for free by a nice listmember - thank you, Jos!) last september / october. seed were sown on pure live sphagnum germinated after 4-6 weeksand the plants are growing since then in a propagation tray, 26\260 C (78\260 F) all the time, under fluorecent light 14 hours a day, using deionized water only. most of the plants are sprouting out their 4th pitcher bearing leaf, very small, palish green in colour, some slightly red below the peristome. they seemed to do well so far. but now it seems to me as if the colour is getting *too* palish green.... is this quite usual? or is it a sign to change growing conditions? anyone on with experience in bringing up Nepenthes seedlings? any helpful comment would be highly appreciated. thanks in advance Andi ################### From: bruce dudley Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 03:02:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: Cindy kids and aldrovanda papers Dear Cindy, > Kaminski, R. 1987a: Studies on the ecology of Aldrovanda > and its companion paper: > > Kaminski R, 1987b: Studies on the ecology of aldrovanda vesiculosa I can obtain both of these "obscure" papers and can send copies to you but this would take several weeks (or even a month) and cost approximately DM 2.50 (xerox, 25 double pages reduced to A4) + DM 16 (air mail 250g) = DM 18.50 (9.25 US$). Do you want me to try this it or do you need a more rapid/cheaper source? Kind regards Jan Hi Jan would it be feasible to scan it and send it email? I don't know if it is physically impossible, or even illegal, but it would resolve the "time" issue.... It just a hint for how I resolve getting information to people with technology -- fast and cheap. Bruce ################### From: schlauer@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 12:34:09 +0000 Subject: papers online Dear Bruce, > would it be feasible to scan it and send it email? I > don't know if it is physically impossible, or even > illegal, but it would resolve the "time" issue.... > It just a hint for how I resolve getting information > to people with technology -- fast and cheap. This would be feasible if the recipient was able to receive large files via email (not all people with email do have a large mailbox). Email would of course be much cheaper than snail mail. The time issue would not be affected significantly, because the journal is in a library some 150 km from here, and I will visit it at the earliest in two weeks (more probably three weeks). This is the rate limiting step. I could of course also use interlibrary loan, but the service here is so "excellent" that I would receive the copies in a month (if everything works fine). Kind regards Jan ################### From: "Joe Harden" Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:48:26 -0600 Subject: Mutant Drosera evolves! Thanks for all the replies everyone! But it seems that things got even more Loco in the Greenhouse -- The last flowerbud on the stem is putting out sticky tentacles! I have read several post here about a new plant forming on the end of a flower stalk, and now I finally get to see it. Whoopetydo! ################### From: "John Green" Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:24:45 -0700 Subject: Wet/dry preferences I'm re-doing my outdoor bog this spring and I'll be creating a lower spot near the primary water source (the bottom of the rain gutter) and a higher spot (on the other end of the bog). I've read on the Cherryhill website that different species have different preferences for wetter or drier; like S. rubras, S. minor (not Okee giant), and VFTs like it drier, and S. purpurea venosa, S. psittacina, and D. intermedia like it wetter. Can anyone help me with general preferences, as far as wet/dry/intermediate for the following: S. leucophylla S. flava S. alata S. purpurea ssp. purpurea S. oreophila D. rotundifolia D. filiformis (both subspecies) D. anglica P. vulgaris Also, please correct me if I'm wrong, but my impression for most temperate pings is that they prefer sandier soils. My idea is to plant them towards the back at the bases of some Sarrs in a bit sandier soil. That way they'll also benefit from some partial shade from the Sarrs. Thanks in advance for your advice. John Green Salt Lake City, Utah ################### From: Borneo Exotics Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 19:08:55 +0600 Subject: Borneo Exotics, Nepenthes etc... Hi Folks, We owe an apology to those of you that may have been checking our web site occasionally looking for an update. We've been so busy these past few months, actually producing the plants and moving our highland nursery to the new site, that we've rather neglected the web site updates. Sorry about that. Anyway, it's now updated with information about the plants we shall be releasing for sale this year. Further regular updates and new features will be coming very shortly. At last I shall have some time to sit and write more about my favourite plants! If you are a Nepenthophile, please take a look at: http://www.borneoexotics.com/ and go the the "What's New" section. Regards, Rob Cantley ################### From: (Howard J. Wu L.Ac) Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 8:27:30 +0000 Subject: Digital pictures > P.S. Do anyone know if it is possible to rent a digital camera? Thanx > Tom Something else you may do is when you take your regular photo film to your photo developer is to ask for a copy of your pictures on a computer disk or CD that you can use. This is inexpensive, especially compared to the cost of a new digital camera. Howard. Howard J. Wu Bishop Ca. mrwu@qnet.com ################### From: JWi5770869@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 15:46:34 EST Subject: (no subject) Dear Bruce and All, >Hello John, I remember this seller/grower wanting offers to be given over his email address. Try leaving him an email and I'm sure he will give you the specifics. No need to share all of that information here. I appreciate anyone who will offer a chance to increase my collection of species I enjoy growing. So, maybe you are a little less irritated now. Bruce What's the point in emailing somebody who can't (or sometimes wont) be able to sell their plants because of phytosanitary and CITES restrictions? The other point is that my growing conditions will not be the same as such and such a member in ,say Florida.If I went on the listserve telling everybody about my infallible methods of growing Darlingtonia, I'm sure I'd get a few unnecessary emails from the listserve members who live in hot climates, asking me where I live ( as it is, if they have a world atlas they can find the rough area where I live). As far as I can recall, the listserve protocol also asks listmembers to notify where they live, because this is an International list (the point of my original posting). John Wilden Southport Lancs. UK ################### From: Paul Temple Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:09:09 +0000 Subject: Re: Sarracenia rosea Barry's comment on the "new" species reminds me of a general point. >This species, called Sarracenia rosea, will test the ranks of CPers the > world over, as some may accept it and others may not. Essentially, it is a > subpopulation of plants that, before this paper, would have been lumped > with Sarracenia purpurea subsp. purpurea. There have been a few questions over the validity of several "species" and it's not uncommon, even within our own ranks, to find that certain names are not very well accepted. But not to accept a published species name is surely contrary to the Tokyo Convention on naming standards (or the equivalent convention for cultivars). I would therefore assume that, if indeed a new species name has been validly published according to the correct and current coventions, we must (must is emphasised) accept it (ie. anyone not doing so is making a casual statement, not a scientific one). Anyone who wishes to do otherwise would be obliged to publish their own revision. This means that published lists of CP's should use the curretly valid published names irrespective of the views of the lit's publisher/author. Any published list that contains names that are not published valid AND current (where such is not made clear), would invalidate the whole list; because if a list uses one invalid name, then one can not trust that any of the other names are valid, so all must be treated as potentially invalid until proven otherwise. What I'm trying to say is that pubished names and lists of names can not represent personal opinion, they must represent the current validly published names according to international convention. So, for example, if Sarracenia rosea has indeed been published, we should now be using that name and not the name it revised (even if we disagree!). Cheers Paul ################### From: "Dave Evans" Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 02:32:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Nepenthes seedlings If they are not eating, then they will get paler and paler, until they die. Contrary to what some people believe, CP's do need to eat. You could fertilize them, very easily by making up a 1/4 stength (for houseplants) solution of 20:20:20, and use a tooth pick to swab up some of the sol and gently dab the small pitchers so that small droplet of fertilier sol. remain on the pitchers. Just try one or two leaves at first to see if you get any burning. You shouldn't and in a a week you should see more green. After two weeks do the same thing again, but try to get more of the pitchers. Don't get any solution on the soil. ----- Original Message ----- > after 4-6 weeksand the plants are growing since then in a propagation tray, > 26\260 C (78\260 F) all the time, > under fluorecent light 14 hours a day, using deionized water only. > most of the plants are sprouting out their 4th pitcher bearing leaf, > very small, palish green in colour, some slightly red below the peristome. > they seemed to do well so far. > but now it seems to me as if the colour is getting *too* palish green.... > is this quite usual? or is it a sign to change growing conditions? There is the possibity that the light is too bright, also. > anyone on with experience in bringing up Nepenthes seedlings? > any helpful comment would be highly appreciated. Dave Evans ################### From: Steve Hinkson Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 02:03:51 -0800 Subject: published, and following the rules (snip) "What I'm trying to say is that pubished(sic) names and lists of names can not represent personal opinion, they must represent the current validly published names according to international convention. " (snip) What you're saying is that everyone MUST accept whatever is published according to protocol, and that the opinions of academic paper pushers count more. I say....(edited)...Bull hockey! ################### From: "Peter.kronenberger" Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 12:04:48 +0100 Subject: Re: Nepenthes seedlings Dear Andreas, Don't allow your Madagascariensis seedlings to turn pale green: it's the beginning of the end. An important factor seems substrate humidity. My best growers were initially in Jiffy peat pellets (see CPdigest 2021), but are now in 3:1 peat/sand that is kept slightly humid, and certainly not wet. Jos informed me that the plant in Madagascar was growing in a sunny, sandy and relatively dry environment. Peter Kronenberger biologist, Belgium >Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 11:54:34 -0000 >From: "Andreas Krassnigg" >To: "CP Digest" >Subject: Nepenthes seedlings >Message-ID: <002501bf793d$c6031540$24a2bad4@telekabel.at> > >dear listmembers, > >it was my first (successful) try to germinate some N. madagascariensis seed >(which were sent to me for free by a nice listmember - thank you, Jos!) >last september / october. seed were sown on pure live sphagnum germinated >after 4-6 weeksand the plants are growing since then in a propagation tray, >26\260 C (78\260 F) all the time, >under fluorecent light 14 hours a day, using deionized water only. >most of the plants are sprouting out their 4th pitcher bearing leaf, >very small, palish green in colour, some slightly red below the peristome. >they seemed to do well so far. >but now it seems to me as if the colour is getting *too* palish green.... >is this quite usual? or is it a sign to change growing conditions? >anyone on with experience in bringing up Nepenthes seedlings? >any helpful comment would be highly appreciated. > >thanks in advance > >Andi ################### From: "C. J. Mazur" Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 09:19:14 -0500 Subject: NEW ICPS WEBPAGE Dear All, I just wanted to let you all know that the NEW official ICPS site is now online. As most of you many know, Dr. Barry Meyers-Rice has been created and maintained the ICPS website over the last number of years. As part of my position of VP of the ICPS, I volunteered to take over control of the page and revamp it. After many months of plugging away at it in my spare time, its finally online. As with any "new thing" it may still have some quirks. Barry and other board members, have worked very hard with me to ensure as many errors, omissions, and problems have been cleared up. If you have any news or events that you'd like listed on the ICPS page, please email your submissions to carl@carnivorousplants.org And finally, many thanks to Barry for all his work over the years. Best Regards, Carl Mazur, VP ICPS [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Michael Hunt" Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 10:46:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Nepenthes seedlings It's a very real possibility the light is too bright for the young seedlings. On many young or stressed plants (such as cuttings) excessive light will further push the plant to its limit. In a case with too much light on a tender young plant it can not absorb large amounts of light and is unable to carry on with photosynthesis and chlorophyll production ceases. The plant turns from pale green to white. Growth stops and the plant dies, or dies back. I have had this problem with N. gracilis cuttings in particular. The cut takes rapidly and produces a vigorous shoot then stops and turns white. When I caught the problem and moved the plants farther from the fluorescent tubes after recovery some regained growth. But the shoot died. ~Mike St. Petersburg Fl > From: Andreas Krassnigg > > after 4-6 weeksand the plants are growing since then in a propagation > tray, > > 26\260 C (78\260 F) all the time, > > under fluorecent light 14 hours a day, using deionized water only. > > most of the plants are sprouting out their 4th pitcher bearing leaf, > > very small, palish green in colour, some slightly red below the peristome. > > they seemed to do well so far. > > but now it seems to me as if the colour is getting *too* palish green.... > > is this quite usual? or is it a sign to change growing conditions? > > There is the possibity that the light is too bright, also. > > > anyone on with experience in bringing up Nepenthes seedlings? > > any helpful comment would be highly appreciated. > ################### From: "Andrew Marshall" Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 08:24:28 -0800 Subject: wet/dry planting Hi John Here are my impressions, based on years of trial and error. Hope it helps. > S. leucophylla drier > S. flava drier > S. alata intermediate to drier > S. purpurea ssp. purpurea wet to intermediate > S. oreophila dry > D. rotundifolia top dressing in all species of Sarracenia > D. filiformis (both subspecies) tracyii keep drier during hibernation > D. anglica top dressing > P. vulgaris wet, with water running through it if you can. I grow all my Sarracenia in 14 gallon sotorage tubs. The uprights(flave, leuco etc..)have holes bored in the tubs about 2 inches below the soil surface. The prostrate forms( purp, psitt etc..) the holes are bored at soil surface. I use the Drosera as top dressing so to speak in all the tubs, with vft and even the occasional temperate pinguicula in there as well. The vft and pings do best in tubs with upright S. in them. Hope this helps. > Also, please correct me if I'm wrong, but my impression for most > temperate pings is that they prefer sandier soils. Yes, at least for the N. american temperates such as planifolia and the others from the S.E. of the USA. They are adaptaboe though if allowed to be. Plant them in with the uprights except for P. primuliflora who likes it wet. I have seen these actually floating in masses. Hope this helps. let me know. Best wishes Andrew Cascade Carnivorous Plants Http://cascadecarnivorous.plant.org ################### From: "dick c tran" Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 09:15:00 -0800 Subject: (No Subject) Hello all nepenthophiles, I have been seeing and reading about..... N. bongso (formerly N. talangensis) N. talangensis (formerly N. bongso) Not only am I confused with this species but also the pictures that people are associating with the name(s). In the case with Borneo Exotics, the picture of N. bongso / N. talangensis, looks like red N. alata (lower pitcher). With Wistuba, it is listed as two different species. (no pictures) In the case with Malesiana Tropicals, he has N. talangensis as having globose dumpy pitchers and described as the slowest growing of all highland neps and in partly related to N. aristolochiodes. CPjungle shows N. bongso as having red pictures with wide flaring red peristomes. So, is N. talangensis and N. bongso two distinct species? There seems to be a lot of confusion with this. If I purchase N. talangensis and N. bongso from each of these nurseries, am I going to get a variety of plants that looks different but is supposed to be N. bongso (formerly N. talangensis) and/or N. talangensis (formerly N. bongso). Any input would REALLY help...... Thanks Dick Tran MailCity. Secure Email Anywhere, Anytime! http://www.mailcity.com ################### From: "dick c tran" Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 09:28:09 -0800 Subject: Nep. species confusion I am sending this again. Don't know if the first time work. Had email service problem. --------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------- Hello all nepenthophiles, i have been seeing and reading about..... N. bongso (formerly N. talangensis) N. talangensis (formerly N. bongso) Not only am i confused with this species but also the pictures that people are associating with the name. In the case with Borneo Exotics, the picture of N. bongso or N. talangensis, looks like N. alata (lower pitcher). With Wistuba, it is listed as two different species. In the case with Malesiana Tropicals, he has N. talangensis as having globose dumpy pitchers and described as the slowest growing of all highland neps and in partly related to N. aristolochiodes. CPjungle shows N. bongso as having red pictures with wide flaring red peristomes. So, is N. talangensis and N. bongso two distinct species? There seems to be a lot of confusion with this. If I purchase N. talangensis and N. bongso from each of these nurseries, am I going to get a variety of plants that looks different but is supposed to be N. bongso (formerly N. talangensis) and/or N. talangensis (formerly N. bongso). Any input would REALLY help...... Thanks Dick Tran MailCity. Secure Email Anywhere, Anytime! http://www.mailcity.com ################### From: "Joe Harden" Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 11:40:03 -0600 Subject: Reverse Osmosis & Site Updates Hello again. I went into Sam's Wholesale Club last night to pick up some stuff...and I they had a Reverse Osmosis Unit in there for about $170, which I picked up. It's manufactured by Premier, and seems to have everything any other R.O. unit has : Sediment, Carbon, Carbon Post Filters, and R.O. Membrane. It doesn't require any electricity, which was a plus. I'm going to have it hooked up soon, and I hope it will be sufficient for my greenhouse. If anyone else wants one, go check it out (If you're in the States). Also, I have spent over 2 hours this morning cleaning up my site, and actually made a Gallery section that basically has all the pictures from my web-site in one area. If you haven't visitied in awhile, please check it out and tell me how it looks! Joe Harden www.carnivorous-kingdom.com [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Tran, Dick" Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 10:02:48 -0800 Subject: N.bongso/talangensis Correction........... Malesiana Tropicals also shows N. bongso and N. talangensis as two separate and distinct species and they have pictures of both plants. > Dick > ################### From: "Paul Edwards" Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:29:36 +1100 Subject: Now for something different Sorry, right off subject, but I need to know the Capital City of New York State. I've got a bet here a work. I say it's not New York City. Prove me right. (Sorry, we're a bit ignorant down here) --------------------------------------------- Paul Edwards, Bampton Park, Neerim South, Victoria. Australia. edwards@net2000.com.au --------------------------------------------- ################### From: dick Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 20:28:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Now for something different Paul Edwards wrote: > > Sorry, right off subject, but I need to know the Capital City of New York > State. I've got a bet here a work. I say it's not New York City. Prove me > right. > (Sorry, we're a bit ignorant down here) > > --------------------------------------------- > Paul Edwards, > Bampton Park, > Neerim South, Victoria. > Australia. > edwards@net2000.com.au > --------------------------------------------- Albany ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 07:03:57 +0100 Subject: AW: Nep. species confusion Dear Dick, Joachim Nerz and myself validly published N. talangensis in CPN in 1994 (Vol. 23 page 101). Best see our type description for details. Before this time N. talangensis was called N. bongso in error. However, the type description and type specimens of N. bongso by Korthals from 1839 refers to a population from Gunung Merapi being completely different, not even closer related, to the plants from Gunung Talang (N. talangensis). In fact, N. talangensis seems to be quite close to N. aristolochioides, while N. bongso is very close (if not identical) to N. carunculata. The whole mixup is due to a misinterpretation by Danser, mentioning specimens from Talang (clearly N. talangensis) in his monographic work under N. bongso, together with the type specimens from Korthals and some others. Hope that clarifies the whole a bit. Please see also Jan Schlauers Carnivorous Plant Database at http://www.hpl.hp.com/bot/cp_home for further details and clarifications. Here you'll also find a link to Danser. Rob Cantley's version ( "N. bongso (formerly N. talangensis)" ) is very hard to follow and must be due to a mixup or misunderstanding, since N. bongso is a very old name (1839), while N. talangensis just was established in 1994 (by J. Nerz and myself). Bye Andreas > -----Urspr\374ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: cp@opus.hpl.hp.com [mailto:cp@opus.hpl.hp.com]Im Auftrag von dick c > tran > Gesendet: Freitag, 18. Februar 2000 18:39 > An: Multiple recipients of list > Betreff: Nep. species confusion > > > I am sending this again. Don't know if the > first time work. Had email service problem. > --------------------------------------------- > --------------------------------------------- > > Hello all nepenthophiles, > > i have been seeing and reading about..... > > N. bongso (formerly N. talangensis) > N. talangensis (formerly N. bongso) > > Not only am i confused with this species but also the pictures > that people are > associating with the name. > > In the case with Borneo Exotics, the picture of N. bongso or N. > talangensis, looks like N. alata (lower pitcher). > > With Wistuba, it is listed as two different species. > > In the case with Malesiana Tropicals, he has N. talangensis as > having globose dumpy > pitchers and described as the slowest growing of all highland > neps and in partly related to > N. aristolochiodes. > > CPjungle shows N. bongso as having red pictures with wide flaring > red peristomes. > > So, is N. talangensis and N. bongso two distinct species? > There seems to be a lot of confusion with this. > > If I purchase N. talangensis and N. bongso from each of these > nurseries, am > I going to get a variety of plants that looks different but is > supposed to be > N. bongso (formerly N. talangensis) and/or N. talangensis > (formerly N. bongso). > > Any input would REALLY help...... > > Thanks > > Dick Tran > > > MailCity. Secure Email Anywhere, Anytime! > http://www.mailcity.com > ################### From: Bryan and Leslie Lorber Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 00:52:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Now for something different Albany is the capital of New York State. It is located about 125 miles north of New York City ("The Big Apple") and is as different from NYC as Hobart is from Sydney. Hope this helps. Bryan Charlotte, Vermont U.S.A. Paul Edwards wrote: > Sorry, right off subject, but I need to know the Capital City of New York > State. I've got a bet here a work. I say it's not New York City. Prove me > right. > (Sorry, we're a bit ignorant down here) > > --------------------------------------------- > Paul Edwards, > Bampton Park, > Neerim South, Victoria. > Australia. > edwards@net2000.com.au > --------------------------------------------- ################### From: j.dewitte@t-online.de Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 15:24:57 +0100 (MET) Subject: bongso / talangensis I have seen a lot of n. talangensis during he climb of Gunun gTalang. There is enough variation, with plants starting as low as 1700 m and continuing up to the summit. Comparing pictures you would be tempted to say that the higher ones are different, or maybe hybrids. Nevertheless now I think they are just variations of the same species. As far as n. bongso goes, the one and only plant I saw was on Gunung Singalang, growing in a tree on the side of the path. Pictures are available to demonstrate the difference. Jean-Pierre De Witte mailto: j.dewitte@t-online.de Time: 15:20:36 http://www.jeandewitte.de This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------- ################### From: TCoultiss@aol.com Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:57:24 EST Subject: Re: Wet/drier John, I can't comment on Sarras as I'm only starting to grow them outdoors this year (so I'm monitoring this topic carefully!). P vulgaris, as Andrew says, do like a trickle of running water if poss but I grow mine in pots of standard peat:sand:perlite (2:2:1) compost which are constantly watered via the tray method. I also incorporate small slate slabs (2-3 inches wide) in the pots and plant the pings as close to these as possible - this I got from observation of wild P Vulgaris in North Wales - they seem to like a cool root run. I have been growing them outdoors (in Wiltshire UK) for two years now and they are thriving well. Hope all this makes sense :) Tony Coultiss ################### From: Tim Jackson Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 08:41:32 -0800 Subject: Re: published, and following the rules Steve Hinkson wrote: > > I say....(edited)...Bull hockey! To which one might add: "The latest taxonomic innovation is not necessarily the most appropriate and will not necessarily gain wide acceptance." - Colin C Walker in Asklepios 72, p12 ################### From: "dan dzukola" Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 11:55:30 -0500 Subject: looking for Nepenthes seed Hello I have been a lurker to this list for well over a year now. I have some venus flytrap plants and some pitcher plants that I purchased from Carl Mazure, The problem is they need a dormant period. I have no plants in my living room. I have been reading the savage garden book and am interested in some neps. So I can have some carnivorous plants all year long. I live in michigan so buying live plants now is out of the question. Does anyone have some available seed, Im not fussy but I would like a smaller spiecies due to my lack of good growing space. I have recieved some good advice from all of you, Keep on writing Dan [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Diana Pederson" Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:42:27 PST Subject: Re: NEW ICPS WEBPAGE Please post the url for the new webpages. ################### From: "Charles Redding" Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 16:59:11 PST Subject: wacky capensis speaking of weird occurances with Drosera Capensis. In my greenhouse the leaves split up to four times. Has anyone had this happen? It's really weird because they seem to stop doing it if I take them out of my greenhouse. any comments? Charles in North Florida (near Gainseville) zone 9 ################### From: "C. J. Mazur" Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 13:08:24 -0500 Subject: Re: NEW ICPS WEBPAGE diana was asking about the URL for the new ICPS pages. Its the same as the old one www.carnivorousplants.org Best Regards, Carl Mazur VP ICPS > Please post the url for the new webpages. > > ################### From: "Dickon & Cathy Worsley" Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 21:51:43 -0500 Subject: N. sanguinea I have a small N. sanguinea in the green house. It is potted in Sphagnum moss. Watered with RO filtered water. The green house fluctuates from 80 during the day to 60 at night. The RH ranges from 45% to 65%. This plant is not looking good, brown leaves, deformed leader. All the other nepenthes are doing well. Any ideas what it is looking for? I thought these guys could take anything. Apparently they don't like the weather in my part of Canada! Dickon Worsley Toronto, Canada ################### From: "Harden" Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 21:43:37 -0600 Subject: New ICPS Site Actually, I noticed the change about 4 days ago, and was impressed. It looks very good, very professional, and I didn't find any bugs. Darn Good Job Carl! ################### From: "sundew" Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:46:35 +1100 Subject: Re.new ICPS webpages Dear Carl Just wanted to publicly congratulate you on a brilliant job that you have done with the new look ICPS webpage. I certainly reccommend that all readers here make it their next priority to drop in as such, and have a look about. A new century, and a new look that could not have been better timed. I certainly look forward to the member's pics being on line soon! Keep up the good work! Regards Nathan J. Clemens sundew@mitmania.net.au ~Sarrascene~ Seasonal Supplier of Carnivorous Plants Bowral NSW Australia Topic No. 4 To: "CP List" Subject: NEW ICPS WEBPAGE Message-ID: <000a01bf7a1b$3e1a9b60$186e59d1@ccp> Dear All, I just wanted to let you all know that the NEW official ICPS site is now online. As most of you many know, Dr. Barry Meyers-Rice has been created and maintained the ICPS website over the last number of years. As part of my position of VP of the ICPS, I volunteered to take over control of the page and revamp it. After many months of plugging away at it in my spare time, its finally online. As with any "new thing" it may still have some quirks. Barry and other board members, have worked very hard with me to ensure as many errors, omissions, and problems have been cleared up. If you have any news or events that you'd like listed on the ICPS page, please email your submissions to carl@carnivorousplants.org And finally, many thanks to Barry for all his work over the years. Best Regards, Carl Mazur, VP ICPS [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: Rich Ellis Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 06:32:12 -0700 Subject: Re: N. sanguinea On Sat, 19 Feb 2000"Dickon & Cathy Worsley" writes: > I have a small N. sanguinea in the green house. It is potted in Sphagnum > moss. Watered with RO filtered water. The green house fluctuates from 80 > during the day to 60 at night. The RH ranges from 45% to 65%. > This plant is not looking good, brown leaves, deformed leader. All the > other nepenthes are doing well. Any ideas what it is looking for? Your conditions sound reasonable and I don't think of N. sanguinea as being particularly fussy as Nepenthes go. It might prefer higher humidity. I suspect something is wrong with the roots and the lowish humidity is not helping. I would probably unpot and examine the roots. This may, unfortunately kill the plant but if you have a pest problem it would be good to know before it spreads to other plants. Rich Boulder, Colorado http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/8564/ ################### From: "chris moody" Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:45:17 GMT Subject: u.alpina's for sale hi all. it's been a long time since i last mailed this list! i've got some utricularia alpinas,(well actually quite a lot of them) for sale. they're \2434.50 plus whatever the postage comes to. as you can see it's in pounds sterling, so if you're interested please make sure you can seend me a cheque or cash in pounds sterling. thanks all. regards chris.m. ################### From: BillSherren Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 15:17:46 -0000 Subject: Spaghnum moss Hi Everyone, With the demise of Marston Exotics in the UK, does any UK members of this list know of another supplier of live Spaghnum moss? Thanks Bill ################### From: Dionaea@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 12:20:29 EST Subject: Re: Wacky Capensis Charles, You may have the crestate form of D. capensis. Are the roots weird too? Christoph > Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 16:59:11 PST > From: "Charles Redding" > To: cp@opus.hpl.hp.com > Subject: wacky capensis > Message-ID: <20000220005911.17516.qmail@hotmail.com> > > > > > speaking of weird occurances with Drosera Capensis. In my greenhouse the > leaves split up to four times. Has anyone had this happen? It's really weird > > because they seem to stop doing it if I take them out of my greenhouse. > > any comments? > Charles > in North Florida > (near Gainseville) > zone 9 > > ################### From: Andrew Bate Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 18:16:04 +0000 Subject: Re: Spaghnum moss On Sun, 20 Feb 2000 07:54:50 -0800 (PST), you wrote: Bill, >With the demise of Marston Exotics in the UK, does any UK members of >this list know of another supplier of live Spaghnum moss? I'm not sure about the sphagnum moss situation but here is what I last heard about Marston's (following the announcement in the UK CPS Newsletter). Someone kindly emailed me the following who contacted Marstons:- "Jackie Gardner has confirmed that she is running a mail order business for CPs and seeds. She seems to have most of the Marston Exotics stock, although Marston Exotics themselves have ceased to trade and Paul Gardner is now technically an employee of Wyevale Nurseries. Her phone number is 01981-251659 (mobile 0798-0354076) and she plans to have a stall in the NCCPG tent at the Hampton Court Flower Show in July where she will be selling a range of CPs." I guess that they may still have the license or whatever to harvest the spagnum but best bet is to give Jackie a ring. I'll be needing a fair amount in the spring as well so I was wondering the same thing. Regards, Andrew -- andrew@cpuk.org.uk | A UK Specific Guide http://www.cpuk.org.uk | to Carnivorous Plant Resources ################### From: "Trent Meeks" Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:33:42 PST Subject: Re:N. sanguinea >I have a small N. sanguinea in the green house. It is potted in >Sphagnum >moss. Watered with RO filtered water. The green house fluctuates from >80 >during the day to 60 at night. The RH ranges from 45% to 65%. >This plant is not looking good, brown leaves, deformed leader. All >>the >other nepenthes are doing well. Any ideas what it is looking for? >I thought these guys could take anything. Apparently they don't like >>the >weather in my part of Canada! >Dickon Worsley >Toronto, Canada Sounds to me like the humidity fluctuations could be a problem. How long has the N. sanguinea been sitting undisturbed? If you potted the plant during the winter season, two factors are making your sanguinea unhappy: 1.short daylight hours 2. fluctuating humidity while trying to establish itself. I live in south Florida, and do not repot my Nepenthes during winter. My plants definitely slow down from Dec. thru Feb., and low humidity caused by cold fronts moving through will result in deformed new growth. The main reason I close in my lathe house in winter is not so much to protect from low temps, but to hold in the humidity. Hope these comments are helpful. Trent Meeks Pompano Beach, Florida ################### From: Doug Barrett and Laura Ratti Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:37:01 -0800 Subject: N. carunculata/talangensis I have some questions about these species too. I bought a plant in 94 labeled as N. carunculata from Gunung Talang from A. Wistuba. This plant does not look like pictures of N. talangensis that I have seen but does look somewhat like the pictures of the natural hybrid N. talangensis x inermis that appear in one of the 95 CPN issues. I have not seen any more references to N. carunculata from G. Talang but I often do see N. bongo (N. talangensis) listed from there. It appears from what I have read that N. bongso and N. carunculata are the same and N. talangensis is different. The plant that I have is also an easy grower leading me to think that it is a hybrid. The pitchers are washed out with minimal red streaking but do have the shape of N. talangensis. I have cut back the plant so I have not seen any upper pitchers. Does anyone else grow this particular clone or have any opinions? I have also often wondered what the source of these TC plants is. It seems like most if not all are from seed and some are from seed from cultivated plants while some are from seed collected from the wild. These wild collected seeds could easily have resulted from hybridization. By the way, this is not a criticism of TC plants. It is my preferred source of plants. ################### From: Andrew Gibbons Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:39:07 +1100 Subject: Re: wacky capensis Charles, I grow mine outside and a lot of my capensis have produced 'forked' leaves (split once about 1" from the tip). Mind you, here in Melbourne we've just come out of a pretty weird spring (mistimed flowering, unusual growth, etc.) so maybe your starting to get the weather we've had. My guess is it's a case of the plant trying to grow so much it forgets how to do it properly :-) Have you tried making cuttings from the split tips. Even though its probably environmentally caused there's always a slight chance of a somatic mutation. Andrew On 19 Feb 00 at 16:59, Charles Redding wrote: > > speaking of weird occurances with Drosera Capensis. In my greenhouse the > leaves split up to four times. Has anyone had this happen? It's really weird > because they seem to stop doing it if I take them out of my greenhouse. > > any comments? > Charles > in North Florida > (near Gainseville) > zone 9 > ################### From: "Jay Vannini" Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 18:43:49 -0600 Subject: Central American Pinguicula Greetings: I am very interested in obtaining information on Pinguicula in northern Central America and Chiapas. I have seen the odd plant here and there in Guatemala and was wondering whether anyone has collected and/or published a checklist/key for the genus for this region. Thanks in advance - Jay [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: JScott9653@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 21:14:11 EST Subject: fungus on D. filiformis ? Hello I need some help with some D.filiformis. I grew the plants last summer in live sphagnum moss and they thrived very well. Then when the weather started to cool down they formed the hibernaculum. when the weather warmed up and was very unseasonable mild for zone 5 I put them in the fridge at around 35 degrees to keep them from coming out of dormancy. When the weather cooled down outside I put them in the garage where the temp was around 35-45 degrees. I then noticed a white fungus on them. Is there a safe fungicide I can use on them? I would like any help on this. thanks jscott ################### From: "Malesiana Tropicals" Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 17:09:43 +0800 Subject: Re: N. carunculata/talangensis Some of the confusion here may have been caused by the fact that both N. talangensis AND N. bongso (which may or may not be N. carunculata - but that is another debate altogether) both occur on G. Talang. The N. bongso plants are much more difficult to find and are seldom seen by most climbers, but they are indeed there. These two species are very different and could not bee asily confused in the wild. In fact, IMHO I would rank N. talangensis as one of the most distinctive of the otherwise often-confusing plethora of Sumatran Nepenthes, and it is perhaps due to faulty or inadequate herbarium material that this plant was ever placed with N. bongso. In any case, seed collected from G. Talang in the past has often been distributed as N. bongso (particularly before N. talangensis was published in1986), although it is most likely to have actually been N. talangensis. >I bought a plant in 94 labeled as N. carunculata from Gunung Talang >from A. Wistuba. This plant does not look like pictures of N. >talangensis that I have seen but does look somewhat >like the pictures >of the natural hybrid N. talangensis x inermis... I'm sure that Andreas (who has published N. talangensis) knows quite well from which parent stock he has obtained his seed and as I mentioned earlier it would not be easy to mistake N. bongso/carunculata for N. talangensis. Keep in mind that young plants of N. bongso/carunculata may not yet show the flared peristome which is usually characteristic of this species. Best regards, Ch'ien Lee -- Malesiana Tropicals Sdn. Bhd. 1st Floor, Lot 4909, Sect. 64 KTLD, Upland Shop House, Jln. Upland 93300 Kuching, Sarawak, Malaysia Phone: [int'l prefix]+(6082) 419-290 Fax: [int'l prefix]+(6082) 423-494 http://www.malesiana.tropicals.com.my -- Malesiana Tropicals Sdn. Bhd. 1st Floor, Lot 4909, Sect. 64 KTLD, Upland Shop House, Jln. Upland 93300 Kuching, Sarawak, Malaysia Phone: [int'l prefix]+(6082) 419-290 Fax: [int'l prefix]+(6082) 423-494 http://www.malesiana.tropicals.com.my ################### From: Stig Henning Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:57:01 +0100 Subject: I need pictures of different soil's, can you help? Does anyone have a close up pic's of different soils ? (in large photos 1600x1200 example) It doesn't matter if the pic's take several megabytes.. I need good pictures to identify, and ask people - where I can get live spagnum, peat and such. Hope you can help me! Stig Henning http://www.iu.hioslo.no/~thunes/planter ################### From: Suresh Naidu Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 14:43:29 +0530 Subject: garden plants ABOUT US: We, at GREENEARTH BIOTECHNOLOGIES LIMITED, are pleased to understand that you are a reputed Garden Center involved in \223Sales\224 of various varieties of plants. We also understand that you import lot of plants from commercial tissue culture labs situated world wide. We wish to introduce ourselves as a premier, hi-tech tissue culture laboratory, situated in Bangalore, South India, with a capacity of 5 million plantlets per annum. We are in the process of upgrading our lab facilities, in order to double our production. The State-of-the-art facility in our lab incorporates the use of sterile materials imported from Europe for our clean rooms and sophisticated Israeli Computer Controlled Greenhouses for hardening plants. A large portion of our production is for customers in Europe, Africa, Far East and South East Asia. Zantadeschia (calla tubers) of different clones are also being multiplied and tuberised to the extent of 5 to 10 cms diameter and exported to our customers in New Zealand. The entire lab facility is designed to produce world class products at cost effective prices. We have an R & D lab, where starter cultures are prepared, plants are freed from virus and disease, and improvements in production protocols are made. Extensive research work is also done for improving our crops for higher yields and better produce. We can also clonally micropropagate any special plants the client owns, on an exclusive basis with an assurance of the highest ethical standards. ABOUT OUR OFFER: Given below are the details of plants in net pots that are being supplied by us and their F.O.B. Indian Port prices in US $: PRICES IN US $ S.No Product Net Pots 1. Banana (Dwarf Cavendish/Robusta/Grande Naine) 0.25 2. Syngonium (Singles) (Pixie/Red/White Butterfly/Lilliput) 0.23 3. Spathiphyllum Petite (2+Clumps) 0.25 4. Gerbera (Red & Pink, Cut Flower Variety & Red Potted Variety) 0.23 5. Calla Lilly (Pink Opal/Pink persuasion/Pot of Gold/Sensation/Dominique/Mango/Black Magic & Cleopatra \226 Cut Flower variety 0.25 6. Polyscias crispum 0.25 7. Crossandra 0.28 8. Cordyline (Pink Edge & Red Edge) 0.23 9. Philodendron (Xanadu & Royal Queen) 0.25 10. Ficus (Golden King \226 Clumps) 0.25 11 Ficus (Tenaki & Robusta \226 Singles) 0.23 Advance : 25% by demand draft together with the order. Payment terms : By demand draft against our Proforma Invoice, before despatch. Delivery: : 4-6 weeks from the date of receipt of order subject to prior sale. SURESH J NAIDU GENERAL MANAGER ################### From: Philcula@webtv.net (Phil Faulisi) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 05:39:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: tc plant question Greetings members. Is there anyone out there who can enlighten me on the differences between tc grown nepenthes and seed grown plants. I hear so many different opinions on the subject it's hard to get a straight answer. As far as I have always known, tc was a process of cloning by way of culturing the apical meristem hence the term "tissue". I hear from many sources that nepenthes sold as tissue cultured are actually seed grown in vitro. This really isn't true tissue culture...is it? And if it isn't, then why is it referred to in this way. I think it is all very confusing. Plants grown from seed suspended in an agar base are really just seed grown in very sterile conditions, aren't they. I have contacted many nurseries around the USA who specialize in all kinds of plants, non cp, and they have ALL said that 100% of the plants they sell as tissue cultured are indeed meristematic clones of the parent plant. They too grow plants from seed in vitro but they don't label these as tc grown. They sell them as seed grown. It's too confusing. Can anyone who really knows what is going on share some information please? Thanks very much. Phil ################### From: BillSherren Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 15:02:27 -0000 Subject: Spaghnum moss Hi Thanks for your comments over Marston Exotics: "Jackie Gardner has confirmed that she is running a mail order business for CPs and seeds. She seems to have most of the Marston Exotics stock, although Marston Exotics themselves have ceased to trade and Paul Gardner is now technically an employee of Wyevale Nurseries. Her phone number is 01981-251659 (mobile 0798-0354076) and she plans to have a stall in the NCCPG tent at the Hampton Court Flower Show in July where she will be selling a range of CPs." But I had phoned that number before submitting my CP question over Spaghnum moss, and got the impression from Jackie that they no longer supplying CP's.. Or moss for that matter.. I hope I am wrong. Bill ################### From: "Joe Harden" Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:07:42 -0600 Subject: Tap Water Purifier for Sale! My R.O. unit is running smoothly...for everyone that mentioned that the 'waste' water was excessive compared to the good water...you were NOT joking!!! I can install a large water garden in my greenhouse with that amount of waste water, that's for sure. Anyway, I now have a Tap Water Purifier I no longer need, and I'm willing to part with it for $25, or best offer. Here is a link to the place where I got it from, and all about it: http://www.petwhse.com/webstore/webstore.nsf/fbd771ea8d7ff4fa852567da006d3cd2/070258d09ad6d3a387256721006dd2e5?OpenDocument The current filter is half used, but I'm throwing in an un-opened filter that I never installed for it. Anyone who is interested, just email me privately. Thanks! Joe www.carnivorous-kingdom.com [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "chris moody" Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 20:11:03 GMT Subject: u.alpinas for sale(again) sorry all. it has been brought to my attention that in my previous ad the price of my plants had been jumbled some how, so here's my ad again. i have 4 (four) pots of u.alpinas for sale. each pot is full of healthy, young vigorously growing plants. the price of the plants is \2434.50 (four pounds fifty pence) +(plus) whatever the cost of the postage comes to. please reply by the first of march, as afterwards i will be dividing the plants up. the offer will still stand, but there will not be as many plants in each pot. to all those people not in the united kingdom, i am willing to export the plants, but bare in mind the cost of overseas shipping, and that some places need to have a permit to receive plants, so if you're interested please don't be disappointed if i can't you sell the plants. regards chris.m. zpyder@hotmail.com ################### From: "Paul Edwards" Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:36:03 +1100 Subject: Roridula Hi all, Does any one have available some seed for Roridula? --------------------------------------------- Paul Edwards, Bampton Park, Neerim South, Victoria. Australia. edwards@net2000.com.au --------------------------------------------- ################### From: Ronnie Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 18:10:53 -0500 Subject: CP line drawings, clip art Does anyone have any clip art of CP? I am conducting a program and would like to make a nice flyer. Thanks in advance. Ronnie Spears 285 Haynes Creek Circle Oxford, Georgia 30054 rspears@mindspring.com 770-788-9709 770-402-5303 Cell Outreach Coordinator Georgia Department of Natural Resources Charlie Elliott Wildlife Center 543 Elliott Trail Mansfield, Georgia 30055 770-784-3059 770-784-3061 Fax Ronnie_Spears@mail.dnr.state.ga.us ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 16:12:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: hi... (fwd) Hey Folks, I got this charming bit of mail. Anyone able to help this fellow out? B ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Dear Responsible, I'm a Officer in Turk gendarme .I have a special Interest with drosera and Pinguicula plant . Can you send these plant's seed If possible ? I'm waiting... My Name: Ozgur AKGUL My address:Rize \335l Jandarma Komutanligi Rize/TURKEY Thank you... ################### From: schlauer@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 10:20:47 +0000 Subject: Re: Sarracenia rosea Dear Paul and all others interested in nomenclature, The difference between valid and accepted names is a subtle one. But it is of primary importance to separate the two terms because they have widely different meanings. > There have been a few questions over the validity of several "species" > and it's not uncommon, even within our own ranks, to find that certain > names are not very well accepted. Note that the sentence contains the two words "validity" and "accepted". "Acceptance" would have been a better substitute for "validity" (v.i.). > But not to accept a published species name is surely contrary to the > Tokyo Convention on naming standards (or the equivalent convention for > cultivars). The Tokyo Convention (i.e. the last edition of the International Code of Botanical Nomenclature, ICBN) regulates the proper naming of taxa (usually not cultivated, wild plants) insofar as it prescribes what a name must have at least, in order to be *valid*. A *valid* name is in turn a name that was formed following the ICBN. According to the preamble, "(9.) the only proper reasons for changing a name are either a more profound knowledge of the facts resulting from adequate taxonomic study or the necessity of giving up a nomenclature that is contrary to the rules." I other words this emphasizes the supremacy of taxonomy over nomenclature: if a taxonomic study reveals that one name is the synonym of another name, only the earliest *valid* name has to be *accepted*. It is, therefore, *NOT* contrary to the convention not to *accept* a *valid* name. The ICBN does not regulate taxonomic work (i.e. *acceptance* or synonymisation of names), it *only* regulates the proper (*valid*) naming of taxa. > I would therefore assume that, if indeed a new species name > has been validly published according to the correct and current > coventions, we must (must is emphasised) accept it No. We must (if we want to produce complete lists) only cite it because it is a *valid* name; we do not need to *accept* it. > (ie. anyone not doing > so is making a casual statement, not a scientific one). This is not entirely correct. Almost all scientific taxonomic treatments do contain long lists of not *accepted* (but *valid*) synonyms. > Anyone who > wishes to do otherwise would be obliged to publish their own revision. This is not formally required. It is of course be recommendable (but not mandatory!) to first check what was meant originally by the names that should be synonymised. > This means that published lists of CP's should use the curretly valid > published names irrespective of the views of the lit's > publisher/author. Any list of synonyms does represent the views of the author. There are no rules for taxonomic decisions (v.s.). > Any published list that contains names that are not > published valid AND current (where such is not made clear), would > invalidate the whole list; Lists are neither *valid* nor *invalid* (cf. the definintions above), only names can be such. It is of course unfortunate if a list of names does not make differences between *valid* and *invalid* names if both are included. But a more important (but still not mandatory) point is that it should be made clear which names are *accepted* and which are not. > because if a list uses one invalid name, then one > can not trust that any of the other names are valid, so all must be > treated as potentially invalid until proven otherwise. Yes. The same applies to *accepted* names. But still such a work (without distinction between *valid/invalid or accepted/unaccepted* names) cannot be called unscientific. It may even be useful for some purposes. > What I'm trying to say is that pubished names and lists of names can > not represent personal opinion, They always will. > they must represent the current validly published > names according to international convention. They *should* do so but they do not necessarily need to. > So, for example, if Sarracenia rosea has indeed been published, > we should now be using that name and not the name it revised (even if we > disagree!). If an older *valid* name exists for the same taxon (based on same type), the older name *must* be *accepted* according to the ICBN. If a taxonomic revision shows the new taxon to be included in another taxon for which an older *valid* name exists, again the older name *must* be *accepted* according to the ICBN. So a taxonomic revision can indeed necessitate the *acceptance* of another name, and _Sarracenia rosea_ might be a name that should in fact not be *accepted* even though it is *valid*. Kind regards Jan ################### From: "cyclone" Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 22:13:39 +1000 Subject: Introduction Hi Just a quick intro. My name is Tony McEvoy and I live in Brisbane, Australia. I am just getting back into cp's again after about 15 years. Way back then I was heavily involved with the now defunct :-( Ipswich Carnivorous Plant Society at one time being president. At the time it was a thriving club with members all over Australia. Recently on a sort of nostalgia kick I purchased a few Sarracenia and Droseras, did a bit of web surfing and ended up on this list. I am interested in any current info about locations for viewing cp's in the wild in Australia especially in Queensland. I have just returned from a trip to Malaysia (Peninsular not Sabah or Sarawak unfortunately) and photographed some Nepenthes growing wild in the Cameron Highlands. Anyone care to identify the following couple of pics please? Nepenthes was never my forte :-) http://www.ozemail.com.au/~novik/cps/nepenthes.html You can zoom a couple of times if necessary by clicking on either image. Thanks and Happy Growing Tony ################### From: "cyclone" Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 22:28:08 +1000 Subject: I need pictures of different soil's, can you help? Hi Stig Don't know if either of these help but here's a couple of 1280x960 snaps I took of the soil where some Nepenthes were growing in the Cameron Highlands in Malaysia recently. http://www.ozemail.com.au/~novik/cps/for_stig.html each is just over 500kb so the page may take a while to load. Tony > Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:57:01 +0100 > From: Stig Henning > To: cp@opus.hpl.hp.com > Subject: I need pictures of different soil's, can you help? > Message-ID: <4.1.20000221105332.00aa6100@popn.c2i.net> > > Does anyone have a close up pic's of different soils ? > (in large photos 1600x1200 example) > It doesn't matter if the pic's take several megabytes.. > > I need good pictures to identify, and ask people - > where I can get live spagnum, peat and such. > > Hope you can help me! > Stig Henning > http://www.iu.hioslo.no/~thunes/planter > ################### From: "John Green" Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 08:57:17 -0700 Subject: Re: wet/dry preferences Just a quick thanks to Andrew and Tony for their comments about wet/dry preferences. Since it's for an outdoor bog, I'll balance your advice with the reality that it doesn't rain much here during the summer (I probably won't make the high spot very high). I may have to come up with some contingency plans, too, to avoid having to use tap water. The weather lately has been so mild that it's all I can do to keep from getting started on it right away. I'm thinking of creating a web site (mostly for the experience) and maybe I'll take some pics of the construction of the new bog and post it there. I'll let the list know for anyone who might be interested. Thanks again, John Green Salt Lake City, Utah ################### From: steve steve Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 08:25:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: Cephalotus pollen Dear All, Can anyone help me please? I am trying to obtain a _small_ sample of Cephalotus pollen. This does not have to be particularly fresh (has anyone dried a flower?) but if anyone has a flowering Albany Pitcher plant that they are prepared to collect some pollen from that would be great. This is not for pollination but for academic study. Anyone able to help would be cited in any later publications. Thanks, Steve ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:37:43 -0800 Subject: PNWCPC meetings/members Hi everyone, I'm back again after another two month hiatus. It just got to the point where I wasn't able to check my e-mail often enough and so ended up deleting all unnecessary files (ie: from the list). Hopefully I'll be back on for a while! On news of the Pacific Northwest Carnivorous Plant Club. If you are a member, or think you are, and have not been receiving my e-mails about our upcoming meetings, that means your e-mail must have changed and I haven't been able to locate your new one. If so, please forward it to me so that you can keep in touch with regards to the meetings. For those interested, we will be having two plant shows this year at the Richmond Nature Centre, Richmond, B.C., Canada. Both will be from 11am to 4pm on May 7th and August 27th. The first one will be a plant show and members only trading/selling with a meeting to follow to discuss the direction of the club. The August meeting will be both a public show and sale. Feel free to drop by at either of them if you happen to be in town. Full information can be found on our website (www.nurserysite.com/clubs/pnwcarnivorous) which is linked through the web-ring as well. Happy growing, Chris Teichreb ################### From: Paul Temple Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 18:43:35 +0000 Subject: Re: published, and following the rules Steve >>(snip) >>"What I'm trying >>to say is that pubished(sic) names and lists of names can not represent >>personal opinion, they must represent the current validly published >>names according to international convention. " >>(snip) >What you're saying is that everyone MUST accept whatever is >published according to protocol, and that the opinions of academic >paper pushers count more. >I say....(edited)...Bull hockey! No that is definately not what I said nor what I meant. In fact, I specifically said the opposite. The problem is that although many people do disagree with "whatever is published according to protocol", they fail to realise that their opinion counts for nothing unless they make their opinion known to others. Personally I really value the opinion of people who challenge a published work (because it makes me think and because much of science's progress occurs only through challenging what has previously been accepted) but only if I am allowed to understand on what they base their challenge. But if I am free to ignore publication and prefer my own view, then how would anyone else understand me? For example, if I fail to accept that by the current rules P. calyptrata carries that name, and if instead I refer to it as P. antarctica, the how would anyone know which plant I was referring to as P. antarctica. P. antarctica (the true species) or P. calyptrata? The rules are there to create clarity and reduce ambiguity, just as the rules in grammer do the same for a language. Witout them, we would all be lost. Just because I support publication protocol does not mean I accept that the published word is "truth". It is merely the most recently published view and if publsihed corec6ly is a validated view - "validity" not being the same as "truth". But without publication I am simply unable to read the minds of those who have a view. The rules of publication therefore allow us the right to read what people think and why they think it, especially when they disagree with what was previously published. Now what, pray tell, could possibly be wrong with that? Regards Paul ################### From: Owen Priddle Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 15:40:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: purple-flowered Drosera Hello everybody- I have a Drosera in my collection labelled as "D. spec. 'Okinawa'" with no other data on it. It is an average looking rosetted plant, and until recently I had assumed it was just a D. spathulata clone. However, it recently flowered and the blossoms are lilac-colored. I am unaware of D. spathulata having this color flowers -- can anyone help me identify my plant? -Owen ################### From: Stephen Davis Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 00:08:09 -0800 Subject: Roridula growing. Does anyone have a site describing recommendations and pitfalls of growing Roridula? I've gotten 3 of 17 seeds to sprout, and had one grow to an astounding 4" before before kicking the bucket. It would seem to be ready to die, come back and then finally go into a death tailspin and died rather quickly. I never used fertilizer on it. I had it in my garage in San Jose CA under lights, with no plastic to hold in humidity, for a while, then put it outside in morning sun, afternoon shade. That is where it spent the remaining days of it's rather short life. Stephen ################### From: "Poh Jonathan" Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 02:35:26 PST Subject: Looking for ICQnick: kowal Hi, Guys, Can someone by the Icqnick: Kowal, please contact me. I got something that I promised to give u. Please write to : jonpoh@hotmail.com Thanks! Lots of love Jonathan poh ################### From: Steve Hinkson Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 02:35:49 -0800 Subject: valid Paul wrote: Now what, pray tell, could possibly be wrong with that? Steve answers: Nothing. I misunderstood your repeated use of the English word, valid. God forbid we should use English here when botanical jargon will do. And God help the newbie who comes in and sees a "valid" name called "valid, and everyone else calls the plant something else. I'd have no problem calling taxonomic mumbo jumbo "published" or "pending" until it's sorted out and either finally accepted, republished, or finally thrown out, but I do take exception to the use of "valid" to describe anything done according to protocol, no matter how silly.. Steve -- "You can easily judge the character of a person by how he treats those who can do nothing for him or to him." Malcolm Forbes Drop by and see me at : http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/6811 ################### From: JScott9653@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 06:33:08 EST Subject: Fwd: fungus on D. filiformis ? In a message dated 2/20/00 9:14:11 PM US Eastern Standard Time, JScott9653 writes: << Subj: fungus on D. filiformis ? Date: 2/20/00 9:14:11 PM US Eastern Standard Time From: JScott9653 To: cp@opus.hpl.hp.com Hello I need some help with some D.filiformis. I grew the plants last summer in live sphagnum moss and they thrived very well. Then when the weather started to cool down they formed the hibernaculum. when the weather warmed up and was very unseasonable mild for zone 5 I put them in the fridge at around 35 degrees to keep them from coming out of dormancy. When the weather cooled down outside I put them in the garage where the temp was around 35-45 degrees. I then noticed a white fungus on them. Is there a safe fungicide I can use on them? I would like any help on this. thanks jscott >> --- part 2 --- Hello I need some help with some D.filiformis. I grew the plants last summer in live sphagnum moss and they thrived very well. Then when the weather started to cool down they formed the hibernaculum. when the weather warmed up and was very unseasonable mild for zone 5 I put them in the fridge at around 35 degrees to keep them from coming out of dormancy. When the weather cooled down outside I put them in the garage where the temp was around 35-45 degrees. I then noticed a white fungus on them. Is there a safe fungicide I can use on them? I would like any help on this. thanks jscott ################### From: "Susan Farrington" Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 08:22:25 -0600 Subject: Outdoor bogs Like John in Utah, I'm starting an outdoor bog this spring also... I've had the experience of maintaining and renovating an INDOOR bog (in a cool conservatory) here at the Missouri Botanical Garden, and now I want to try one outdoors at home. I'm using three rigid pools with irregular shapes: the middle one will be a pond, and the other two are jigsawed on either side of the pond to be bogs. It's been very mild here, so I got the holes dug this week-end, and installed the pond. I won't be planting until April, though, as my plants are all greenhouse tender at this time of year, and I'm sure it will get cold again. I leveled the pond (or pretty darn close to level), but I've decided to tilt both the bogs slightly, which should allow me to have a drier upper end, and a wetter lower end. I guess I'll drill a couple of holes a few inches from the top on the lower end, to keep it from becoming total soup if it pours for days. (Which we would love, since it's been DRY here for the last nine months.) How does this sound to those who have tried outdoor bogs? Susan Susan Farrington Missouri Botanical Garden P.O. Box 299 St. Louis MO 63166-0299 susan.farrington@mobot.org (314)577-9402 ################### From: Nicholas Plummer Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:42:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: N. glabrata "palo alto form" Can anyone give me a quick run down on the "palo alto" form of Nepenthes glabrata? What is known of its origins, and how does it differ from typical N. glabrata (if at all)? About a year and a half ago, I was given a beautiful plant labeled N. glabrata X maxima. The appearence of the pitchers seems consistent with that label, and it has become one of my favorite Nepenthes. The picture of N. glabrata "palo alto form" in the CP database seems rather similar to my plant, but the image is not high enough resolution to be sure. Is the palo alto form likely to be a hybrid or is it the true species? I would love to add N. glabrata to my collection, but it doesn't seem to be offered by any of the sources of tissue-cultured Nepenthes. cheers, Nick ---------------------- Nicholas Plummer nplummer@duke.edu http://www.duke.edu/~nplummer/main.html ################### From: "Pierre GELINAUD" Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 00:56:56 +0900 Subject: Re:purple-flowered Drosera Hi Owen, I have some D.spatulata "Okinawa rose" which colour is pink to purple and white or clearer in the middle. Probably the same as yours. I live in Okinawa (Japan) and I know there are some drosera in the wild here but have not yet seen them. I don't know if it's the same plant... Mine are coming from seeds I got from the French association Dionee. You can see some photos on my site. I can't say more at this time... Pierre Gelinaud http://www.multimania.com/piilou/carni/ piilou@pop.multimania.com [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Joe Harden" Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 10:48:00 -0600 Subject: Waking up the Cobra Lilies Hello all. I have taken my four cobra lilies out of the fridge and starting to acclimate them. One didn't quite make it, one looks like it might have some trouble, while the other two are fine. This is the second time I have put some plants in the fridge for 5 months, and I actually had a better success rate this time. This time I just let the plants' soil dry up till it was slightly moist, threw them in a ziplock, and put the in the back of the fridge. Maybe the ziploc created too much humidity? Would they have been fine w/o a ziploc? What's everyone elses success/methods for keeping the plants alive for so long? Joe Harden www.carnivorous-kingdom.com [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 12:58:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: New Jersey CPer sought Hey New Jersey CPers Anyone care to answer this request for a speaker? If you decide to take up this request, please contact me as well. And thanks! Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org ---------- Forwarded message ---------- To: bazza@sarracenia.com We are teaching our fourth grade class a unit on carnivorous plants, and are interested in having a guest speaker present a discussion on the topic. We are located in mid-Monmouth County, New Jersey. If you are too far to come to see us, can you recommend someone who has expertise on carnivorous plants who is local? We are anxious to hear from you. Sincerely yours, Mrs. E. Trott and Mrs. Aquinas ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 00:31:30 +0100 Subject: AW: tc plant question Dear Phil, tissue culture usually refers in the relevant literature to almost everything coming out of a test tube. You also call it micropropagation. However, usually the plants are also propagated when they are sarted from seeds. The seed is only the explant in most cases. This means, that often it is sufficient to have a few seeds germinating in vitro. FRom these seedlings propagation s then started. The only cases I amaware of that nurseries do not propagate but just sow the seeds to grow the seedlings under sterile conditions are orchids. However, this is mainly done because orchids can hardly be grown from seeds under non-strile conditions. You also mention the term meristematic clone. In fact, in the true sense this only refers to a technique which is rarely used, when taking only the _real_ meristeme, only consisting of few cells. Most people talking of meristems or meristeme propagation are actually using shoot tips which also contain non-meristematic cells, but that's another story... BTW, most Nepenthes plants that are _propagated_ in vitro were actually _started_ from seeds sown in vitro under sterile conditions. Bye Andreas -----Urspr\374ngliche Nachricht----- Von: cp@opus.hpl.hp.com [mailto:cp@opus.hpl.hp.com]Im Auftrag von Phil Faulisi Gesendet: Montag, 21. Februar 2000 14:43 An: Multiple recipients of list Betreff: tc plant question Greetings members. Is there anyone out there who can enlighten me on the differences between tc grown nepenthes and seed grown plants. I hear so many different opinions on the subject it's hard to get a straight answer. As far as I have always known, tc was a process of cloning by way of culturing the apical meristem hence the term "tissue". I hear from many sources that nepenthes sold as tissue cultured are actually seed grown in vitro. This really isn't true tissue culture...is it? And if it isn't, then why is it referred to in this way. I think it is all very confusing. Plants grown from seed suspended in an agar base are really just seed grown in very sterile conditions, aren't they. I have contacted many nurseries around the USA who specialize in all kinds of plants, non cp, and they have ALL said that 100% of the plants they sell as tissue cultured are indeed meristematic clones of the parent plant. They too grow plants from seed in vitro but they don't label these as tc grown. They sell them as seed grown. It's too confusing. Can anyone who really knows what is going on share some information please? Thanks very much. Phil ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 16:05:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: Database of Droseras of North America Hey folks, I have just been told about an interesting, developing database on plants of North America. In its early stages, it only contains information on two families, one of which contains Venus Flytraps and Sundews. If you want to download this (free) database, point your web browser to: http://www.bonap.org The database is quite nice, and comes with a set of distribution maps, too. Lots of fun. Read the mail I got below about it, then download it and enjoy. Cheers Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org Hi Barry, I'm a coauthor of a database of all vascular plants, native or naturalized, in North America, 22,006 species in all; 28,033 if you include subspecies and varieties. It is called the "Synthesis of the North American Flora" and is being distributed through the North Carolina Botanical Garden. John Kartesz and I decided to put a demo version with just two families, the Droseraceae and the Aceraceae, for people to see how the software works. I thought the carnivorous plant folks might be interesed in this, so I found your FAQ page. The demo file can be found at http://www.bonap.org. It is a 1 megabyte self-installing Windows program. The help file tells all about the features of the software. Take a look if you are interested. If you do down- load it, please let me know what you think. If you think it's worthwhile, I'd be pleased if you would post information about the demo so that other CP folks can take a look. Cheers, Chris Meacham Research Associate Jepson Herbarium University of California, Berkeley ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 16:24:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: Is Sarracenia rosea valid? Hey Paul You wrote: > But not to accept a published species name is surely contrary to the > Tokyo Convention on naming standards (or the equivalent convention for > cultivars). I would therefore assume that, if indeed a new species name > has been validly published according to the correct and current > coventions, we must (must is emphasised) accept it (ie. anyone not doing > so is making a casual statement, not a scientific one). Anyone who Since the name _Sarracenia rosea_ has been established, in accordance with botanical rules, I certainly accept the *name* as having been correctly and legally established. HOWEVER, this is not the same as saying that I agree the new *taxon* has validity in the natural world. I have just gotten back from a trip, am still only about 1/3 of the way through my email-mountain, and will air my views on _Sarracenia rosea_ if I think I have anything valuable to say about it. I have no doubt that Jan will include the new name in the CP database. For that matter, I should clarify that even though CPN publishes new-taxon descriptions, it does not necessarily mean that either Jan or I agree with the science behind them. This is more the responsibility of the anonymous referees who read the paper before publication, and for the readers of CPN to decide upon for themselves. The inside cover of CPN states that the editors do not necessarily agree with the views of the authors, etc. I hope I am clear on this topic. Later Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: "Joseph Kinyon" Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 17:23:22 -0800 Subject: RE: Published and following the rules **Caution, rant ahead** Paul, I appreciate your opinion. I think your clarification between a righteous stance of "truth" and "valid", and the scientific process being a living process in flux was clear. Inside of the efforts of science(and its methods to be clear) in cladistics or nomenclature of carnivorous plants are political agendas, one up-manship, and prestige. We always hope these are without influence, but unfortunately it is not always the case. One agenda I feel this list-serve does for Carnivorous Plants is to democratize the process of understanding these plants. Jargon dominated scientific text which muddies and obfuscates the point is not appropriate, even if it is accurate. Translation into lay terms is all our responsibility, since it facilitates understanding which works towards any agenda of preservation, conservation, or restoration of species (don't forget it adds the subtle glue of community to this ephemeral group of e-mail addicted CP-ers) Part of science is drawing your conclusions from a hypothesis driven experiment or analysis, putting them out into the public (print is the accepted media currently), and having the crap kicked out of it. Check your ego at the door, and this process gets all of us to a greater understanding of these plants. Don't check it at the door, and you put your esteem at unnecessary risk. So, I agree that we follow published texts, be respectful of the people who made them, and put on big boots to kick the ideas around until they are solid enough to hurt your toes--then get bigger boots. Science should "subvert the dominant paradigm", even if science is the dominant paradigm. **Attention-->Approaching end of Rant** (this is for the benefit of you with those nifty scroll wheels on your mouse skipping my blather, don't want you to sprain a clicker-finger) By the way, feel free to kick around my ideas too. It could be worse, we could be birders working out the four letter banding codes based upon common names established by the American Ornithological Union. A bird's common name is as established as the scientific name in North American birding. It takes some of the poetic flexibility out of discussing them. Rant over and out Joseph Kinyon Marin Headlands ################### From: "Butler, Joe" <6butler@jmls.edu> Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 23:09:56 -0600 Subject: RE: Waking up the Cobra Lilies I also tried (for the first time) having my plants spend their dormancy in the fridge. They all appeared fine when I took them out, but some have now turned to mush. What have I done wrong? Joe Butler -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 10:49 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Hello all. I have taken my four cobra lilies out of the fridge and starting to acclimate them. One didn't quite make it, one looks like it might have some trouble, while the other two are fine. This is the second time I have put some plants in the fridge for 5 months, and I actually had a better success rate this time. This time I just let the plants' soil dry up till it was slightly moist, threw them in a ziplock, and put the in the back of the fridge. Maybe the ziploc created too much humidity? Would they have been fine w/o a ziploc? What's everyone elses success/methods for keeping the plants alive for so long? Joe Harden www.carnivorous-kingdom.com [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "John Orr" Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 03:53:08 -0500 Subject: TC of Nepenthes Has anyone had sucess with getting the seed to sprout in vitro and if so please tell me what was your particular sterilizing procedure? I have tried twice and nothing ever came up. [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: Andrew Broome Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 21:49:11 +1300 Subject: ICPS convention in June So, What are the accommodation suggestions for the ICPS thing in June? A friemd and I are attending (after spending some time in the Florida panhandle etc) and are wondering what we should do. Is there an 'approved' hotel? How expensive is it likely to be? We'll be spending some serious money getting there and as such will be looking for relatively in-expensive options for places to stay. Is there a cheap hotel nearby? Anybody got a spare room? We'll have sleeping bags and are used to 'roughing it'. What about the trip into NoCal to look at Darlingtonia? Anybody keen to give a couple of New Zealanders a ride? Happy to chip in for gas of course. I'm sure we'll be able to make do but any help would be much appreciated. Mail to the above address or ajbroome@yahoo.com will be answered. Looking forward to it all... Andrew@home. *NZKA 137, NAKA 5, SKG, AKA 07212, BKA 073.05, PNAS, NZCPS... * Another brass rail in another old bar, * I'm better at dreaming than living... * (1000 Goodbyes) - Captain Tractor *Killies: Ducatis: Reptiles & Amphibians: Carnivorous Plants: ################### From: Philcula@webtv.net (Phil Faulisi) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 04:31:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Re: tc plant question Thanks Andreas. I guess what you're saying in the simplest terms is that tc nepenthes are first started from seed in vitro and the resulting seedlings are then all chopped up or something and the pieces all develope into individual plantlets. This sounds much easier than extracting apical meristem or shoot tip. Can you suggest good published works or websites with instruction for small scale home use? Phil ################### From: Philcula@webtv.net (Phil Faulisi) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 05:15:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Waking up the cobra lilies Hi Joe. I live in Morgan Hill, CA and I have been growing my cobras outside in deep pans of equal parts live sphagnum and medium grade spongerock. I started with a single rhizome that was given to me 4 years ago and I now have 9 mature individual crowns. But I also notice that leaving them in an area of cold storage where they can still get natural light seems to help. I had always tried before by using the refrigerator to store them over winter but had no success. I must say though that I am fortunate to have mild winters and have the luxury of leaving the plants outdoors for winter. They are otherwise grown in a cool mist tropical greenhouse summer/fall due to my hot , I mean, very hot summers. I do not know your growing conditions or if you have hard winters. Darlingtonia can really withstand some very cold extremes, I know, I saw them a few years ago in May and it was very cold there still. The water where they grew was freezing cold. I would not want to fall into one of many bog holes we peered into. :) But I also noticed that most of the plants still had good firm what looked like live green pitchers. None of them looked like they had really gone totaly dormant. Perhaps it may have been just an unusually mild winter in that region. I'm not sure. Anyways, I am not an apartment dweller like many of the cp enthusiasts are and have been able to utilize nature as my guardian for storage. I will admit some losses in the past, but for the most part they do well. If you have access to outdoor storage you may want to investiate this option as an alternative. If you are growing indoors exclusively I'm afraid I don't have this experience and can not offer an opinion here. I hope then one of the other members who shares similar techniques can offer you some advice. Good luck with your remaining plants. Oh, by the way, do you use a fungicide on your plants prior to storage? Phil ################### From: "R. Beer" Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 08:40:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: Roridula had it in my garage in San Jose CA under lights, with no plastic to hold in humidity, for a while, then put it outside in morning sun, afternoon shade. That is where it spent the remaining days of it's rather short life. ============ Not sure, but putting it into direct sun after growing under lights - even morning sun - could have done it. Plant lights don't give any ultraviolet or even heat generally, and if you just put them straight into direct sunlight it's a bit like lying out in the sun for 8 hours the first day you go to the beach. They get fried. Next time, try putting them in shade at first, and over the course of a week or so, move them into progressively brighter spots. This will allow them to build up the pigments they need to protect themselves in full sun. This also goes for plants raised in a window by the way - very little UV gets through glass, so they still need to build up their resistance. bob Bob Beer * University of Washington * Institute of Forest Resources Anderson 107, Box 352100 * Seattle, WA 98195-2100 * (206) 543-2757 bbeer@u.washington.edu ################### From: "Steve Alton" Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 17:00:08 -0000 Subject: Drosophyllum Folks, I have conducted another germination trial, even less scientific than the one for N. madagascariensis! Using 24 seeds of D. lusitanicum (thanks, John!), I set up 4 replicates of 6 seeds each. The treatments were: Scarified Scarified, gibberellic acid (GA3) Non-scarified Non-scarified, GA3 Scarification was carried out by cutting a thin (THIN!) slice off one side of the seed with a scalpel - it's useful to have a high-powered binocular microscope for this! GA3 was applied as a 24-hour pre- soak. And the results? Well, pretty inconclusive. First germination went to scarified, GA3, as you may expect, but scarified, non-GA3 soon caught up. The only noticeable difference was that the scarified seeds germinated a week or so earlier than the non-scarified. GA3 seemed to have little effect. Between 3 and 5 seeds germinated in each replicate. The main problem has been post-germination mortality - most of the germinated seedlings have subsequently croaked. The ones that have survived always looked like they were going to - very much more vigorous. The biggest survivor is now about 2cm high and covered in drops of mucilage. The substrate for germination was perlite/vermiculite/sharp sand, with a _very_ small amount of peat mixed into the top layer, then dressed with a couple of mm of sand. The seed tray was in an unheated propagator on a south-facing kitchen windowsill at about 20C. I have yet to scientifically test John Wilden's suggestion of applied swearing as a germination promoter...;-) Steve Alton UK Co-ordinator - Millennium Seed Bank Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew Wakehurst Place Tel: 01444 894079 Fax: 01444 894069 ################### From: Ivan Snyder Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 10:10:35 -0800 Subject: re: Purple Flowered Sundew Hi Owen and all, Owen asked: >I have a Drosera in my collection labelled as "D. >spec. 'Okinawa'" with no other data on it. >It is an average looking rosetted plant, and until >recently I had assumed it was just a D. spathulata >clone. However, it recently flowered and the blossoms >are lilac-colored. I am unaware of D. spathulata >having this color flowers -- can anyone help me >identify my plant? Ivan here, I think you have either D. spatulata or D. tokaiensis. Both of these are native to Japan and can have a flower with petals which look purple before opening then lighten up to a pink when fully open. Differentiating between these two species can be tricky unless you are familiar with them. The main differences are a more rounded leaf end and larger seed in D. tokaiensis. This species was previously known as D. spatulata var. Kansai. The name was changed since it was discovered that the plant has 60 chromosomes compared to 40 of spatulata in Japan. Also it is believed that D. tokaiensis is an allopolyploid hybrid of rotundifolia and spatulata. There are also hybrids of spatulata and tokaiensis to complicate the matter further, but if you started your plant from seed, you probably have one or the other. Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 10:51:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: Florida trip Species mentioned: U. gibba, U. olivacea, U. inflata, U. subulata, U. purpurea, U. foliosa(?), D. brevifolia, D. capillaris, S. minor. Hey folks, I am back from a week-long conference in Orlando, Florida, land of pink hotels, theme-parks, and habitat destruction! I am employed by a land conservation organization, so part of my job included touring some nature preserves. Tough work! I also had time to visit a few non-job related preserves, and learned a great deal! The number one lesson I learned was just how *crucial* frequent fire is to maintaining the quality of wild land in peninsular Florida. Native Floridians, listen up! The natural fire frequency in peninsular Florida is just about five years, and when fire is suppressed, the shorter vegetation rapidly clogs areas. One of the first habitats to be crowded out is where our beloved carnivorous plants live. If you've never visited inland, central, peninsular Florida, let me describe the common habitat. It is flat. The ground is just about pure white sand. The dominant shrub is a kind of palm called saw palmetto. This plant normally does not get much taller than about 1 meter (unless fire is suppressed). The overstory is a very sparse pine forest (perhaps 60% coverage in the most dense areas, unless, of course, fire is suppressed). Other woodies such as oaks pop up here and there. In low areas (low meaning a local depression of just 10 cm or so) you'll find carnivorous plants. Utricularia subulata and D. capillaris are the nominal plants you'll find. In wetter areas you might find U. gibba relatively easily. My first trip--a military base near Lake Wales--was pleasant. Drosera capillaris and U. subulata were abundant near the bombing range. (Ironically, US military bases have some of the finest remaining wild lands in the US---the bombing and military exercises encourage frequent wildfires!). At one site I found a pond filled with a large, flowering, aquatic Utricularia---perhaps U. foliosa. I was unable to get to ID it because to retrieve the plants for a closer look I would have had to reach far over a partially submerged culvert to get the plants. This, by itself, was not a problem. But the fact that several baby (45 cm/18 inch) alligators were in the water filled me with anxiety. Mum alligators are quite protective of their children, and I didn't want to get her angry----wherever she was lurking. Another site, near the University of Florida, was particularly nice (thanks, Derek, for this tip!). The scrub-land was in terrible shape, several years overdue for a burn, and the Sarracenia minor I found were struggling to survive. A few ponds, however, were in great condition. Wading around (didn't *see* any baby alligators in this one), I found flowering U. inflata, U. purpurea, and U. gibba. The U. inflata was in mass bloom, and I hope my photos (still at the lab) capture some of the beauty of the site. Much to my astonishment, as I was trodding about in the mucky pond, I found U. olivacea as well. While Derek had told me it was in this area, the amazing part of the discovery was that I lucked out to find it when it was not in flower. This plant is a tiny, tiny Utricularia. After much searching, I did eventually find a single flower, white, about 1 mm long. Very showy! :) Gathering my camera gear and continuing on my trek (now looking completely disreputable in my muddied pants and squelching boots), I found a nice drainage ditch inhabited by more Utrics. Here the U. gibba was the dominant flowering species---those who have seen this plant in the wild know that it almost always flowers only if it is in a few cm of water. But the real scene stealer here was the Drosera. I have never seen such large specimens before; Clearly, the drainage, bright sun, and other conditions were just right for them. Since this area was obviously frequently mowed by landscaping people, competition by grasses etc was reduced, and the carnivores were ecstatic. (Fire ants were also in abundance.) The Drosera capillaris were intensely red, and nearly 6 cm (2.4 inches) in diameter. Drosera brevifolia was also present, and they were about 5 cm (2 inches) in diameter. They were so vigorous and sturdy that at first I thought someone had seeded the site with D. spatulata plants! Clearly, this plant can be much bigger than I thought. I have only seen this plant once before in the wild, in South Carolina, and those plants were shameful cousins of the monsters I saw in Florida. The ones you might recall I mentioned we grow at UCDavis are but shadows of these plants! While the day was generally overcast, for the few hours as I explored this ditch site the sun came out. On queue, all the D. brevifolia flowers opened for my camera. Thanks! Packing up my camera, I headed for home. Wet, muddy, happy. I have to admit, I can't think of anything that makes me happier than chasing carnivores in muddy ponds. The occasional tick was plucked and discarded without a care! I'll be picking up my slides from this Florida trip and loading them on my site soon. I'll tell y'all when. Cheers Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: CALIFCARN@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 13:54:17 EST Subject: Re: N. glabrata Howdy, Peter here at California Carnivores. As to the N. glabrata "Palo Alto", this was a designation suggested by Geoff Wong to distinquish his form of this species to the one I grow at our nursery, which has been called "Forestville". Both plants originated with Ray Triplett many years ago when he received samples of the plants from Turnbull and Middleton, and I believe Kurata, who rediscoved the plants almost simutaneously. The Palo Alto form usually has narrower leaves that can turn purple in high light and more compact tiny pitchers. The Forestville plant has slightly larger pitchers, especially upper ones. The plants aren't common because they are rather difficult to strike from cuttings. I grow both forms and must say they are among my favorites, and Geoff has grown some of the most spectacular plants in tanks under growlights, so purple they take your breath away. Seeya. ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 17:32:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: Sarracenia rosea: quick review Hey folks, I've found the time to give a careful reading of the new paper that establishes the name Sarracenia rosea. Here is a summary of the paper, and a few critical comments by myself. Complete reference: R.F.C. Naczi, E.M. Soper, F.W. Case, & R. B. Case, Sarracenia rosea (Sarraceniaceae), A New Species of Pitcher Plant From The Southeastern United States, SIDA 18(4): 1183-1206, 1999. My Summary: The authors have decided that Sarracenia purpurea subsp. venosa var. burkii is sufficiently different from Sarracenia purpurea subsp. venosa, and indeed Sarracenia purpurea, as to be classified as an entirely new species. (This plant has been called the 'Louis Burke' form in the past.) As a result, you may see the following "new" transformations... S. purpurea subsp. venosa var. burkii --> S. rosea S. purpurea subsp. venosa var. burkii f. luteola --> S. rosea f. luteola S. rosea is different from S. purpurea in a number of features. The flowers have pink petals (unique among all Sarracenia pure species), the flower stalks are shorter, and there are subtle but consistent differences in the sizes of floral parts and pitcher details. My thoughts on the paper: The paper presents a set of interesting measurements, and demonstrates that one can show there are consistent differences between S. rosea and the rest of S. purpurea. They do this with a number of scatter diagrams and other statistical arguments. Indeed, 12 such characters are presented. The authors have convinced me that the two taxa are different, and that the plants called S. rosea deserve some unique name. However, the question is, does the fact that you can *detect* minor differences between two populations of plants warrant elevating both populations to the status of separate species? Truly not! Subspecific categories exist just for such minor differences in plant populations. When you read this paper, think of how different on their plots S. rosea would appear from S. flava! Clearly, S. purpurea and S. rosea are extremely closely related, far more closely related to each other than they are to other species in the genus. This says, to me, *lump them*! Perhaps, PERHAPS, I could be convinced of elevating the var. burkii taxon to a subspecific rank, but certainly not to a separate species. Adopting the logic in this paper, we will soon see S. purpurea, a reasonably natural species, split into dozens of new species based on minor, local variations. Specimens of S. purpurea subsp. purpurea in new england are, for example, very different from those in Canada. According to the level of hair-splitting promoted in this paper, they might be candidates for being new species. I will admit one extremely strong piece of evidence for adopting the name S. rosea for the S. purpurea subsp. venosa var. burkii plants, and that is the presence of Fred and Roberta Case on this paper as authors. These two people have an enormous amount of field experience that I would never discount readily. Their acceptance of this new taxon has me scratching my head. **Note: my views do not necessarily reflect those of my coeditor, or anyone else. Cheers Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: ENfoRCeR44@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 21:00:11 EST Subject: Mailing List My father and I are interested in being placed on your mailing list. Our address is: Kurt and John Fritzges 2860 Sommersby Road Mt. Airy, MD 21771 ################### From: "Marge Talt" Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 00:03:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Mailing List Hi, Someone else may have written with instructions for joining the list, but in case they haven't...here they are - you have to send this in yourself. Send email to: listproc@opus.hpl.hp.com Do not put anything in the subject line. In the body of the message, type: SUBSCRIBE CP Your Name (i.e.Kurt Fritzges) Do not add anything else, including a signature. You will receive a welcome message from the list autobot. You need to keep this message because there will come a day when you want to change from digest form or sign off or something. BTW, when you send a post to an email list, it goes all over the world, so it is best not to put things like your mailing address in it. You need to remember that hundreds of people will see it:-) Cheers and enjoy the list! Marge Talt, zone 7 Maryland mtalt@clark.net Editor: Gardening in Shade ----------------------------------------------- Current Article : Online Nurseries 2000 - Foliage Gardens http://suite101.com/welcome.cfm/222 ------------------------------------------------ Complete Index of Articles by Category and Date http://www.hort.net/mtalt/article-index.html ------------------------------------------------ All Suite101.com garden topics : http://suite101.com/category.cfm/gardening ---------- > From: ENfoRCeR44@aol.com > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Mailing List > Date: Thursday, February 24, 2000 9:12 PM > > My father and I are interested in being placed on your mailing list. Our > address is: > > Kurt and John Fritzges > 2860 Sommersby Road > Mt. Airy, MD 21771 ################### From: "Marge Talt" Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 00:29:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Mailing List Oops, sorry list - thought I was sending this to the inquirer...blush! Marge Talt, zone 7 Maryland mtalt@clark.net Editor: Gardening in Shade ----------------------------------------------- Current Article : Online Nurseries 2000 - Foliage Gardens http://suite101.com/welcome.cfm/222 ------------------------------------------------ Complete Index of Articles by Category and Date http://www.hort.net/mtalt/article-index.html ------------------------------------------------ All Suite101.com garden topics : http://suite101.com/category.cfm/gardening ################### From: Steve Woodward Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:30:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: TC of Nepenthes In reply to John Orr's request for information. My experience with Nepenthes is that you need really fresh seed to get reliable germination in vitro. Sterilize for about 10 minutes in a 20% dilution of domestic bleach in water (I can give more chemical details, if you want to e-mail me direct), then rinse off the bleach in 3 changes of sterile distilled water. I then plate out onto 0.8% distilled water agar for germination. This medium is obviously very low in nutrients and, if any contamination is present, it allows you time to remove the affected seed, leaving the clean seeds in place. Fungi grow very quickly in the presence of high concentrations of free sugar, which is not present in water agar. Put the dishes nuder your lights. It is then a matter of waiting! I have managed to germinate a few species over the years, using these methods. Steve Woodward ---------------------- Dr. Steve Woodward Department of Forestry University of Aberdeen MacRobert Building 581 King Street Aberdeen Scotland, UK Tel: +44-1224-272669 Fax: +44-1224-272685 s.woodward@abdn.ac.uk http://www.abdn.ac.uk/forestry/staff/sw.htm ################### From: bruce dudley Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 03:14:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: fire suppression Hi all Barry hit the nail on the head about fire suppression. However, I wouldn't focus the criticism on only Floridians. Fire suppression in North Carolina is choking out the remaining stands of all CP here in our state, too. When I do see fire used to clear land it is always at the end of summer when farmers are clearing their pastures for fall plantings. Therefore, I say: EVERYONE! Wake up and smell the fire.... we need to return all wetlands back to the fire cycle that was a common occurence before Europeans landed here. The Native Americans were handling the lands fine before the lands were plundered by wayward boatsmen (whom, in all their brilliance, believed they had found India....). That's my 2 cents worth. Bruce (a half-Native American pyromaniac) :-) ################### From: "Aaron M. Ellison" Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 08:38:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: More on S. rosea In response to Barry's comments about S. rosea, I add the following. A recent paper by Godt & Hamrick (M. J. W. Godt and J. L. Hamrick. Genetic divergence among infraspecific taxa of Sarracenia purpurea. Systematic Botany 23:427-438, 1998.) looked at genetic differences among the two subspecies of S. purpurea and the different varieties of subspecies venosa (var. burkii, var. montana, var. venosa. Their results show that var. burkii is clearly very different not only from S. purpurea ssp. purpurea, but also from the other two varieties of ssp. venosa. In fact, their results show that the venosa var. montana and venosa var. venosa are more closely related to ssp. purpurea than any of them are to var. burkii. My recent research on seed characteristics and germination and dormancy within S. purpurea (just submitted this week to American Journal of Botany) come to the same conclusion about the different subspecies and varieties of S. purpurea. If one were to combine the genetic analysis of Godt & Hamrick with morphological analysis of Naczi et al, and with my work on germination biology of this species, the most reasonable conclusion is that there would be two species: S. purpurea and S. rosea, and that what we consider subspecies (ssp. purpurea and ssp. venosa) and varieties within ssp. venosa (var. venosa and var. montana) are really just normal variability within S. purpurea. Perhaps this is a good compromise between lumping and splitting...except for S. rosea (= S. purpurea ssp. venosa var. burkii), all the rest should be S. purpurea, with no further divisions into ssp. or varities (although there are conservation issues associated with S. p. ssp. venosa var. montana, as discussed by Godt & Hamrick). Aaron Ellison ################### From: Amy Ritchie Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 06:01:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: P. agnata producing plantlets!! Hi all, Recently I've noticed something interesting in my P. agnata 'violet flower'. I discovered it when I noticed a leaf that had fallen off of it. I saw a small plantlet growing at the tip. I transferred this plantlet to a bed of sphagnum moss, and since then it has tripled in size! Now that I realized my plants' leaves would do this, I removed about 10 of them and now they are all growing plantlets at the end!! I had heard that P. prumiliflora was well known for its habit to produce plantlets from its leaves, but I had never heard of P. agnata doing this. I tried this with some of my other butterworts (such as P. caudata), but it didn't work! I just wanted to let people know this. Also, how many leaves can be pulled off of the mother ping plant without hurting it? Thanks, Amy http://www.homestead.com/flytraps http://www.homestead.com/cp_puppets ################### From: "Hideka Kobayashi" Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 11:11:53 CST Subject: Orchid seed germination I amaware of that nurseries do not propagate but just sow the seeds to grow the seedlings under sterile conditions are orchids. However, this is mainly done because orchids can hardly be grown from seeds under non-strile conditions. Andreas, Sorry, this is not simply right. I know this is off the topic, but I am responding to this as an orchid grower. In most of cases, orchids need the presence of mychorizal fungi, and it is hardly sterile! Probably you were thinking in vitro conditions. It is not frequently done, however, there is a technique to grow mychorizal fungus and orchid seedlings in vitro (symbiotic germination). Many temperate terrestrial orchids grow much faster by this methods. Other than that, there are other 'meristematic' regions in plants. For example, there are some in cambibium, root tips, and etc. In fact meristematic region is more than a few cells. Besides, even meristematic propagation done in the sense described by you, the leaf primodium is used instead of just a few cells. Hideka ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 09:20:40 -0800 Subject: Re: P. agnata producing plantlets!! Hi Amy, It's very common for most Pings to take from leaf cuttings and is one of the major ways growers propagate them. You can sadely remove about 1/2 of the leaves without significantly slowing down the growth of the mother plant. Chris >Hi all, >Recently I've noticed something interesting in my P. >agnata 'violet flower'. I discovered it when I noticed >a leaf that had fallen off of it. I saw a small >plantlet growing at the tip. I transferred this >plantlet to a bed of sphagnum moss, and since then it >has tripled in size! Now that I realized my plants' >leaves would do this, I removed about 10 of them and >now they are all growing plantlets at the end!! I had >heard that P. prumiliflora was well known for its >habit to produce plantlets from its leaves, but I had >never heard of P. agnata doing this. I tried this with >some of my other butterworts (such as P. caudata), but >it didn't work! I just wanted to let people know this. >Also, how many leaves can be pulled off of the mother >ping plant without hurting it? Thanks, >Amy >http://www.homestead.com/flytraps >http://www.homestead.com/cp_puppets ################### From: "Joe Harden" Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:28:51 -0600 Subject: Drosera trinerva -- what does it do? I seem to have some germinating Drosera trinerva, but I have no idea what it's going to do. All I know about it is that it's a temperate Sundew. Can anyone give me some more details or their personal experience with it? Joe Harden Http://www.carnivorous-kingdom.com [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Joe Harden" Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 14:33:06 -0600 Subject: Hiromichi Matsuo's Website I tried viewing Hiromichi's Website today, and my browser couldn't make sense of it. Can anybody with Internet Explorer Version 5 and some web-savy give some advice how to view this page? http://www.edit.ne.jp/~teroosa/garden/garden_index.html Joe Harden Http://www.carnivorous-kingdom.com [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: Paul Temple Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 22:07:14 +0000 Subject: Mad Groves If Mad reads this - please email me if still alive! Sorry to everyone else. Chau Paul ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 23:16:40 +0100 Subject: AW: Orchid seed germination This depends on what you call sterile. A culture of the relevant fungus isolate is still grown under sterile conditions (the vessel is not open and accessable to all kind of spores). If the meristem with leaf primordia is used this is in fact a shoot tip culture in strict sense. Andreas > -----Urspr\374ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: cp@opus.hpl.hp.com [mailto:cp@opus.hpl.hp.com]Im Auftrag von Hideka > Kobayashi > Gesendet: Freitag, 25. Februar 2000 18:19 > An: Multiple recipients of list > Betreff: Orchid seed germination > > > I amaware of that nurseries do not propagate but just sow the > seeds to grow > the seedlings under sterile conditions are orchids. However, this > is mainly > done because orchids can hardly be grown from seeds under non-strile > conditions. > > Andreas, > > Sorry, this is not simply right. I know this is off the topic, but I am > responding to this as an orchid grower. In most of cases, orchids > need the > presence of mychorizal fungi, and it is hardly sterile! Probably you were > thinking in vitro conditions. It is not frequently done, however, > there is a > technique to grow mychorizal fungus and orchid seedlings in vitro > (symbiotic > germination). Many temperate terrestrial orchids grow much faster by this > methods. > > Other than that, there are other 'meristematic' regions in plants. For > example, there are some in cambibium, root tips, and etc. In fact > meristematic region is more than a few cells. Besides, even meristematic > propagation done in the sense described by you, the leaf > primodium is used > instead of just a few cells. > > > Hideka > > > > > ################### From: JWi5770869@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 17:51:09 EST Subject: Drosophyllum Steve and all, Glad to hear that you've had some success with germination. I've planted up five pots with two seeds to a pot but have only had two sprout. Contrary to what you noticed, the first (and seemingly most vigourous) died. Why? It may have been that I kept the compost too wet for too long. I suspect that the seedling enjoys the damp until it gets to about 1cm in height. After this its always a good idea to water sparingly. My own scarification is by filing the seed coat using a needle file or fine glasspaper.I've found that cutting the case meant that the seed always rotted (perhaps I was cutting too much off?). I soaked my seeds in water for 3 days, not for any special reason, its just that I forgot about them!!!! >I have yet to scientifically test John Wilden's suggestion of applied swearing as a germination promoter...;-) It works! I swear (oops!) It might have something to do with the old wives tale of talking to plants. It works not because the plants enjoy the 'vibes' you give off, more to do with the CO2 in your breath. John Wilden Southport Lancs. UK ################### From: "Steve & Jan Grigg" Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 09:05:48 +1100 Subject: bybilis linflora Hi everyone, I germinated seed of bybilis liniflora which I collected at a friends place last wet season just 20 minutes north of my place here in Townsville. Queensland, Aus. The resulting plants are all the same as they have been for years except for the very unusual growth of one plant. While the others have grown nornally and flowered, one has grown to 14 ins. long and about half way up the stem, has thickened up to a solid mass, 7 ins. long, 1 inch wide and 1/4 inch thick. On this mass are hundreds of fine sticky hairs and small flowers. This plant has germinated in the same pot as 2 other plants and they show typical growth, along with the other plants and all came from the same batch of seed. Has anyone out there had a similar experience with this sort of thing? Best wishes to all. Steve Grigg. Home page http://www.ultra.net.au/~sgrigg ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 16:17:34 -0800 Subject: Outdoor bogs in temperate regions Hi everyone, I'm posting this information here for the interest of those people who don't have the luxury of frost free winters and as such, must take more precautions with their outdoor bogs. I recently moved into the interior region of British Columbia where winter temps can drop as low as -20C but generally range from the freezing mark to nightime lows of -10C for several months. Once I arrived here, I built a small outdoor bog to house my Sarrs, hardy sundews, plus a few experimental plants (vft's, Drosera binata, cape sundews) to see how they would fare over the winter. Following common gardeners advice, once temps started dropping below zero at night, I covered the bog with plastic sheeting to help prevent the frost from hitting the ground level. At this time, I started to allow the bog to dry out to help prevent potential fungus build-up over the winter. Once day temps were sufficiently low and the plants in dormancy mode, I mulched with about 6 inches of dry pine needles, covered the bog with plastic, and further mulched with collected leaves from the yard. The main problem with the Okanagan region is that while temps may drop, this doesn't mean that snow (an ideal insulator) will arrive and so these mulching precautions had to be done. Since November, I've pretty much crossed my fingers and hoped for the best. Day temps are now getting up to +7C, but night temperatures are still dropping to freezing levels. I have removed the layer of leaves (which were quite soaked) and now have only the pine needles and plastic layer over the bog. Of course, I couldn't resist the urge to peak, and the results were somewhat mixed. Despite allowing the bog to dry slightly, fungus is still visible, though not in huge quantities. I am hoping that the larger plants will rebound from this, and I'll see what happens with the smaller seedlings and hibernacula of the Drosera. I believe the fungus was, in part, due to the plastic sheeting which, one the upside, didn't allow huge quantities of water to enter the bog and further promote fungus, but on the downside, didn't allow the bog to "breathe". A burlap covering may have been a better choice. Interestingly, the fungus was primarily on the section where there was live sphagnum moss. This is contrary to what I would expect, given that plants grown in live sphagnum have, for myself, always been fungus free. The good thing is that the soil in the bog is not frozen, and the years previous leaves on the plants are still green and unaffected by the fungus. Soil around the bog is still frozen, so the mulching obviously had the desired effects. At this point, I am still waiting for night temps to come up a little bit. During the day, I am going to remove the plastic and leave the pine needles on, hoping that the air circulation will help get rid of the fungus. Once night temps only drop to freezing, I will remove the pine needles, spray heavily with Benomyl (which I should have done in the fall), and again, hope for the best. Sorry for the long-windedness of this e-mail. I know there are others out there who may be facing a similar dilemma, so hopefully this information is helpful. Feel free to drop me a line if you want more info. I'll let everyone know which plants survive once they start growing again. Chris P.S. Temperate cp's that I brought indoors for the winter and stored in a coolish basement with reduced watering are all coming back now (flower buds on the vft's and Sarrs, new growth from the D.binata). ################### From: "Dave Evans" Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 19:14:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Sarracenia rosea: quick review Hi Barry, It's nice to hear from you on the list. I have doubts about _S.rosea_. However, I must say that from seeing this plants in the wild and cultivating them for several years they are easily more different from all other sub-groups of S.purpurea. Also, _S.purpurea venosa_ and _S. purpurea purpurea_ are less different from each other than are _S.purpurea venosa_ and _S.purpurea venosa var. burkei_ which I have mentioned in the past. This has had me concerned for the past couple years. Of course, _S.rosea_, doesn't appear to me to be a separate species from _S. purpurea purpurea_. I feel the original split between _S.purpurea purpurea_ and _S. purpurea venosa_ was made erroneously and the whole species needs to be revisited. Dave Evans ################### From: Christer Berglund Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 19:05:45 +0100 Subject: Description of D. caduca? Hi, I wonder if anyone have the description of D. caduca? I'm basically interested in knowing the shape, and length/width of the lamina and petiole. Regards, -- Christer Berglund E-mail: christer.berglund@amiga.pp.se ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 22:40:33 -0500 Subject: Richard Jobs*n Sorry to have to send this to the list... Hey Richard, your emails bouncing back to me - email me with the right email address/es. If I cant give you some G.hispidula, I can probably find someone who can :) Email me... Matt ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 22:41:54 -0500 Subject: Heliamphoras wanted Me again... Anyone have some nice, pest and disease free Heliamphoras for trade? I've got some Drosera, email me if youre interested. Thanks, Matt ################### From: Dickdove@aol.com Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 04:07:17 EST Subject: Mealies on VFT I have a four year old (thriving) VFT which has inherited mealies from my cacti during the winter months. I have picked out all the old brown stalks etc. & used tweezers to remove visible varmints. Although I use Sybol & Rapid aerosols on cacti I'm a bit nervous to use these on the VFT. Can anyone recommend treatment with insecticides available over here in the UK? Cheers, Dick in Berkshire ################### From: "david ahrens" Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 07:49:21 PST Subject: Waking up Darlingtonia( and sarracenias, VFT's , etc) I have lost the use of a greenhouse since last March and I now have to grow my plants in a centrally heated flat/appartment. This last winter I have kept the temperate plants in an outside, unheated garage. I put them in there in October, and I have just taken them out this week. There is not much light in there but the plants have kept their colour (color) very well. The VFT's and Sarracenia are just starting to grow and I have not lost any plants to grey mould( I did give a light spray once with some benomyl). Our winters are colder than some parts of the USA, and normally Darlingtonia overwinters easily outside, but I do not grow it at the moment. regards David Ahrens London ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 11:28:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: More on S. rosea Hi Aaron and Dave, You all have interesting points on S. rosea. Still, I think the best approach would be S. purpurea subsp. purpurea S. purpurea subsp. venosa S. purpurea subsp. rosea (of course, the last name has not been established, so is just a fiction for the purposes of this email). I do not deny that S. rosea has consistent differences. Aaron adds interesting data to strengthen this claim. But to elevate it to a separate species status is, considering the disparity in form between other Sarracenia species, unjustified. I do not think that all three proposed subspecies have to be equally closely related. I am content with noting Aaron's data, and having it be known that S. purpurea venosa and S. purpurea purpurea are closer in character than they are to S. purpurea rosea. Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: Steve Hinkson Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 00:21:29 -0800 Subject: S. rosea (snip) " But to elevate it to a separate species status is, considering the disparity in form between other Sarracenia species, unjustified. " (snip) Barry: I second, for what that's worth... *grin* Steve Drop by and see me at : http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/6811 ################### From: "Susan Farrington" Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 07:20:48 -0600 Subject: Outdoor bogs Chris and others, I'm only just beginning the outdoor bog experiment myself, but I'll put my 2 cents in anyway.... you describe -10C (14F) as your typical lows and -20C (-4F) as your extremes. From what I'm hearing from other cp'ers, Sarracenias and hardier Drosera can take these temperatures without using plastic. I think the plastic definitely encourages fungus... I would stick to pine needles without the plastic next year. (Or use burlap as you mentioned). In general, when I'm protecting tender annuals or other garden plants from a late frost, I've always preferred an old sheet to plastic. I've talked to a guy in Illinois several hours north of St. Louis, where temperatures get colder than you describe, and he has had bathtub bogs for about five years... some years he hasn't even mulched them, and things all survive for the most part. Rich Ellis has a bog in Colorado and John Green has one one in Utah... both colder places than you're describing. Granted, the last two usually have the benefit of snow cover, I guess, but Illinois often doesn't. Good luck, Susan > I recently moved into the > interior region of British Columbia where winter temps can drop as low > as -20C but generally range from the freezing mark to nightime lows of > -10C for several months. Once I arrived here, I built a small outdoor > bog to house my Sarrs, hardy sundews, plus a few experimental plants > (vft's, Drosera binata, cape sundews) to see how they would fare over > the winter. > > Following common gardeners advice, once temps started dropping > below zero at night, I covered the bog with plastic sheeting to help > prevent the frost from hitting the ground level. At this time, I > started to allow the bog to dry out to help prevent potential fungus > build-up over the winter. Once day temps were sufficiently low and > the plants in dormancy mode, I mulched with about 6 inches of dry pine > needles, covered the bog with plastic, and further mulched with > collected leaves from the yard. The main problem with the Okanagan > region is that while temps may drop, this doesn't mean that snow (an > ideal insulator) will arrive and so these mulching precautions had to > be done. > Susan Farrington Missouri Botanical Garden P.O. Box 299 St. Louis MO 63166-0299 susan.farrington@mobot.org (314)577-9402 ################### From: Ted Dewitt Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 07:26:41 -0800 Subject: DONT OPEN "C:\COOLPROGS\PRETTYPARK.EXE"] --- part 2 --- If you received an email forwarded to you from us called "C:\\CoolProgs\\PrettyPark.exe", don't open it!!!! Its a virus. If opened it will send it to all the people in your address book! Mike [HTML file part3 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "R. Beer" Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 08:55:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: Odd Byblis What you probably have is a "cristate", or crested form/mutation, where a bud elongates laterally. Some of the "brain-like" cacti are cristate forms of plants that normally are pretty run-of-the-mill - little columnar things. Many plants get occasional crests - you'll see it around if you keep your eyes open. Somtimes they are pleasant, other times, for example, when you get a Daphne that tends toward cresting, it's just defacing and the cristate ends don't grow or flower correctly. If it were a perennial plant, it might be worth it to take a cutting, you can sometimes preserve these; but with a B. liniflora, it's probably not worth risking it - just enjoy the weirdness. :) Bob Beer * University of Washington * Institute of Forest Resources Anderson 107, Box 352100 * Seattle, WA 98195-2100 * (206) 543-2757 bbeer@u.washington.edu ################### From: Phil Wilson Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 14:40:22 +0000 Subject: Re: Drosera trinerva -- what does it do? Hi, >I seem to have some germinating Drosera trinerva, but I have no idea >what it's going to do. All I know about it is that it's a temperate >Sundew. Can anyone give me some more details or their personal >experience with it? > Drosera trinervia is a South African sundew, which forms a rosette of relatively long wedge shaped leaves. They do not form large plants, getting on average to about 3cm across. I have grown plants of the species for several years now. Like many South African species they undergo a period of dormancy, the plant surviving and regenerating from fleshy roots. In general this species grows during the winter, and goes dormant in the spring. While dormant I like to keep the plant damp rather than allowing it to dry out as with other periodically dormant South African species such as D. cistiflora. As far as growing conditions are concerned, I do little more than to keep the plant frost free in the winter months, although it does appear to be able to tolerate brief periods of lower temperatures. I do not add extra light or humidity. In fact the light levels are lower than usual in the winter because I line the greenhouse with bubble plastic to cut down the heating costs. Regards, Phil Wilson Email: cp@pwilson.demon.co.uk ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:11:37 -0800 Subject: Re: Outdoor bogs Hi Susan and everyone, >Chris and others, >I'm only just beginning the outdoor bog experiment myself, but I'll put >my 2 cents in anyway.... you describe -10C (14F) as your typical >lows and -20C (-4F) as your extremes. From what I'm hearing from >other cp'ers, Sarracenias and hardier Drosera can take these >temperatures without using plastic. I think the plastic definitely >encourages fungus... I would stick to pine needles without the plastic >next year. (Or use burlap as you mentioned). In general, when I'm >protecting tender annuals or other garden plants from a late frost, I've >always preferred an old sheet to plastic. I've talked to a guy in Illinois >several hours north of St. Louis, where temperatures get colder than >you describe, and he has had bathtub bogs for about five years... >some years he hasn't even mulched them, and things all survive for the >most part. Rich Ellis has a bog in Colorado and John Green has one >one in Utah... both colder places than you're describing. Granted, the >last two usually have the benefit of snow cover, I guess, but Illinois >often doesn't. >Good luck, >Susan Yes, shame on me ;-)! From growing up on the prairies and helping cover the tomatoes with old bedsheet and burlap when an early frost would hit, I should have known better! I knew most of the Sarrs and hardier plants would take it, it was some of the questionable ones that I was worried about (D.binata, D.capensis, etc.). One question, the fellow with the bathtub bogs, does he bury the tubs in the ground, or leave them on the surface? Thanks for the input! It really does help, and it's definitely been a learning experience :-)! Chris ################### From: Nigel Hurneyman Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 18:21:45 +0000 Subject: Re: More on S. rosea Looks good to me, but the Devil's Advocate might also suggest S. purpurea subsp. purpurea var purpurea S. purpurea subsp. purpurea var venosa S. purpurea subsp. rosea which recognises, in order of importance 1) the difference between S purpurea and the other Sarries 2) the difference between rosea and the other purpureas 3) the difference between venosa and purpurea (but then how would you recognise the current var montana?) NigelH PS - I have a .jpg of my Drosera citrina in flower - if you want to see it drop me an e-mail and I will e-mail it as an attachment. Alternatively I may soon have a web page for my pygmy photos. > Subject: More on S. rosea > > Hi Aaron and Dave, > > You all have interesting points on S. rosea. Still, I think the best > approach would be > S. purpurea subsp. purpurea > S. purpurea subsp. venosa > S. purpurea subsp. rosea > > (of course, the last name has not been established, so is just a fiction > for the purposes of this email). > > I do not deny that S. rosea has consistent differences. Aaron adds > interesting data to strengthen this claim. But to elevate it to a separate > species status is, considering the disparity in form between other > Sarracenia species, unjustified. I do not think that all three proposed > subspecies have to be equally closely related. I am content with noting > Aaron's data, and having it be known that S. purpurea venosa and S. > purpurea purpurea are closer in character than they are to S. purpurea > rosea. > > Barry ################### From: "John Green" Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:48:23 -0700 Subject: S. flava "Maxima" In "The Savage Garden", Peter says something about Slack's "incorrectly named" cultivar S. flava "Maxima" with blue/gray coloring in the lower pitchers. What is the correct name? Is it really just a cultivar or just a characteristic of a locality? I ask because I have a S. flava grown from seed that originated from Walton County, Florida, and it shows this same blue/gray coloring in the lower pitchers. The pitchers are very stocky and shorter than my other flavas, but the rhizome is much larger. It's still a young plant though (maybe 4 years old), so it's hard to tell how tall it will eventually get. John Green Salt Lake City, Utah ################### From: Tom Massey Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:08:08 -0500 Subject: looking for Bob Hanrahan Can someone provide an email address or phone # for Bob Hanrahan? Thanks, Tom in Fl. P.S. Bob, if you are out there, sorry if I mangled the spelling of your last name. ################### From: "Dave Evans" Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:16:22 -0500 Subject: Re: S. flava "Maxima" Hi John, > In "The Savage Garden", Peter says something about Slack's "incorrectly > named" cultivar S. flava "Maxima" with blue/gray coloring in the lower > pitchers. What is the correct name? There is none for this plant, besides _S.flava_ right now. A cultivar cannot have a latin name, like 'Maxima', or this will cause even more confusion than already exists. I'm wondering what you mean by, "lower pitcher," since that is mostly used for Nepenthes in reference to the pitchers growing on the lower sections of the vine. Do you mean they are blue/gray on the lower parts of the leaves? Anyway... > Is it really just a cultivar or just a characteristic of a locality? > I ask because I have a S. flava > grown from seed that originated from Walton County, Florida, and it > shows this same blue/gray coloring in the lower pitchers. The pitchers > are very stocky and shorter than my other flavas, but the rhizome is > much larger. It's still a young plant though (maybe 4 years old), so > it's hard to tell how tall it will eventually get. It sounds like you have something new to me. Perhaps this is an interesting form of S. * catesbaei? Generally, a cultivar doesn't come from the wild, but there are a lot of very interesting plants out there. If there are hundreds of these plants or thousands showing these same features at the location site, I would not call this a cultivar. However, if there were only a handful, out of hundreds or thousands of plants, showing this feature naming the plant as a cultivar has more merit to me. A cultivar is supposed to be unique, showing a quality(ies) that none or almost none of it's closest relatives show. If there are thousands of these plants near this location, then they need to be studied so it can be determined if they are new (to taxonomy) and in what way(s) they are different of other _S. flava_. After these plants are studied, the researchers will have go over their data and try to assign value to any differences and come up with a possible taxonomic (Latin) name for these plants. If you have the only one of a few plants like this in cultivation and they do not have a presence in the wild, then you could name it as a cultivar yourself. Did all the seedlings show these traits? Were the seeds mixed or all from the same plant? If you have only one odd ball out of dozens of normal plants grown from the same mother, even more so if from the same flower, then you most likely have a good cultivar. Which brings me to a question. If there are no wild plants of _S. purpurea subsp. venosa var. burkii f. luteola_. Would it not be better name this as a cultivar rather than as a taxon? Is that why the database doesn't show this name as being accepted? Dave Evans ################### From: "Dave Evans" Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 22:29:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Mealies on VFT Hello Dick, > I have a four year old (thriving) VFT which has inherited mealies from my > cacti during the winter months. I have picked out all the old brown stalks > etc. & used tweezers to remove visible varmints. Although I use Sybol >&Rapid > aerosols on cacti I'm a bit nervous to use these on the VFT. Can anyone > recommend treatment with insecticides available over here in the UK? If the plant is in active growth, just take the whole pot and submerge in a bucket of water for two days. All the mealies will be dead as should most and probably all the eggs. I would not use an aerosol can of anything on any CP's. If it's not in active growth, most any insecticide that you mix with water and apply as a soak ought to do the trick. Dave Evans ################### From: "Richard Jobson" Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 17:04:56 +1100 Subject: U. uliginosa photo Dear List, I have a little article going in the Bulletin of the Australian CP Society on U. uliginosa, but my photos of the plant in habitat and of flowers are of poor quality. As Murphy's law goes my last flower of this plant from my collection fell off on Saturday!! So I need a nice photo of its flower for the cover of the bulletin. Can anyone help me out? I would need a negative and photo pretty quickly and will pay for any postage and return the negs ect. If you can help please email me. Thanks, Richard. ################### From: Kris Kopicki Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 19:06:11 +1030 Subject: Re: DONT OPEN "C:\COOLPROGS\PRETTYPARK.EXE"] > If you received an email forwarded to you from us called > "C:\\CoolProgs\\PrettyPark.exe", don't open it!!!! Its a virus. If > opened it will send it to all the people in your address book! It's times like these that I love having a Macintosh :) Kris ################### From: Dickdove@aol.com Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 04:00:18 EST Subject: Re: Mealies on VFT In a message dated 29/02/00 06:59:49 GMT Standard Time, cp@opus.hpl.hp.com writes: << ate: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 22:29:00 -0500 From: "Dave Evans" Hello Dick, > I have a four year old (thriving) VFT which has inherited mealies from my > cacti during the winter months. I have picked out all the old brown stalks > etc. & used tweezers to remove visible varmints. Although I use Sybol >&Rapid > aerosols on cacti I'm a bit nervous to use these on the VFT. Can anyone > recommend treatment with insecticides available over here in the UK? >> If the plant is in active growth, just take the whole pot and submerge in a bucket of water for two days. All the mealies will be dead as should most and probably all the eggs. I would not use an aerosol can of anything on any CP's. If it's not in active growth, most any insecticide that you mix with water and apply as a soak ought to do the trick. Dave Evans >> Thanks Dave.I'll keep watch & plunge into water when the new growth is a bit stronger. Have you heard that Sybol aerosol is harmful? Cheers, Dick ################### From: Catalano Marcello Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:04:18 +0100 Subject: S. flava var. maxima Hi friends, from the article of Shnell, in the cpn december 98: (speaking about flava var. maxima) "the epithet is unfortunate for this variety since one would a priori suspect it refers to pitcher size, and has been mistakenly used in this respect. In fact the key early descriptive feature of this variety is that the pitchers are green with no red venation or red coloration of the throat. Note: these plants are not the equivalent of anthocyanin-free taxa elsewhere in the genus since the bases of pitchers and cladophylls of var. maxima do have some red pigment. Uncommon throughout the range, but most easily found in the atlantic coastal plain of north Carolina and South Carolina, far less frequent in northwestern Florida". hope this helps, marcello catalano milano, Italy ################### From: "Susan Farrington" Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 07:05:32 -0600 Subject: Re: Outdoor bogs Chris and everyone, > One question, the fellow with the bathtub bogs, does he bury the > tubs in the ground, or leave them on the surface? > I think he just left the tubs out of ground, but I'm not absolutely positive, and I've lost his contact info. His name is Stan Tyson, I believe, if anyone else knows him! Susan Susan Farrington Missouri Botanical Garden P.O. Box 299 St. Louis MO 63166-0299 susan.farrington@mobot.org (314)577-9402 ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:02:59 -0500 Subject: RE: S. flava "Maxima" >In "The Savage Garden", Peter says something about Slack's "incorrectly >named" cultivar S. flava "Maxima" with blue/gray coloring in the lower >pitchers. What is the correct name? Is it really just a cultivar or >just a characteristic of a locality? I ask because I have a S. flava >grown from seed that originated from Walton County, Florida, and it >shows this same blue/gray coloring in the lower pitchers. The pitchers >are very stocky and shorter than my other flavas, but the rhizome is >much larger. It's still a young plant though (maybe 4 years old), so >it's hard to tell how tall it will eventually get. Hi John, About 4 years ago I sent out a bunch of Sarracenia seed and one of the locations was in Walton County. Did the seed come from me? If so, you might have a hybrid. I collected Sarracenia flava (cutthroat) and at the time may have mixed in some hybrid seed from a clump of hybrid Sarracenia plants that were nearby or misidentified the seed as S. flava. The hybrid plants had several characteristics that were different from Sarracenia flava in that location but obviously (to me now) had S. flava as a parent. The hybrid pitchers have much more of a curve to them and a distinct ridge going up the pitcher (I forget the botanical name for this.) The pitcher color is more of a bronze, though, than what you describe as blue/gray. I suspect that it's a hybrid with purpurea and then a backcross a time or two with flava again to make the pitchers more upright and to make the hood more overhanging. The flowers are a mixture of yellow and red. David Atlanta ################### From: "Joe Harden" Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 08:10:31 -0600 Subject: South African Sundews & New Email Address Thanks Phil. I have been researching 'Temperate' Sundews (I'm going by Pietropaolo's list) and found there are North America, South American, South African, Australian, and some New Zealand sundews all in this group. The confusing part is that some of these consider dormancy during the cold winter (ie: North American), while others go dormant in the summer (South African). This wasn't made to clear in many sources. I know I can grow the North American Temperates well, but the New Zealand varieties seem a little difficult after reading more about them. I understand why they could be labeled Temperate sundews, but it seems they belong to a subcategory of their own. Anyone else ever noticed this? And for something different, I have a new E-mail address, jharden@carnivorous-kingdom.com I'm slowly phasing out my jharden@txdirect.net email, it won't be available in another month. Adios. Joe Harden > Drosera trinervia is a South African sundew, which forms a rosette of > relatively long wedge shaped leaves. They do not form large plants, > getting on average to about 3cm across. > > I have grown plants of the species for several years now. Like many > South African species they undergo a period of dormancy, the plant > surviving and regenerating from fleshy roots. > > In general this species grows during the winter, and goes dormant in the > spring. While dormant I like to keep the plant damp rather than allowing > it to dry out as with other periodically dormant South African species > such as D. cistiflora. > > As far as growing conditions are concerned, I do little more than to > keep the plant frost free in the winter months, although it does appear > to be able to tolerate brief periods of lower temperatures. I do not add > extra light or humidity. In fact the light levels are lower than usual > in the winter because I line the greenhouse with bubble plastic to cut > down the heating costs. > > Regards, > Phil Wilson > Email: cp@pwilson.demon.co.uk > ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 16:08:09 Subject: Re: South African Sundews Dear Joe, > I understand why they could be labeled Temperate sundews, I do not understand this, because most of them are etesial/mediterranean (rainy, cool winter & dry, hot summer) or subtropical (dry, cool winter & rainy, hot summer) and not at all temperate (rainy/snowy, frigid winter & +/- rainy, warm summer). > but it seems they belong to a subcategory of their own. They in fact belong to several subcategories, depending on their respective geographical distribution. > Anyone else ever noticed this? Yes. The texts published in certain books are not entirely accurate. Kind regards Jan ################### From: MCATALANI@aol.com Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:51:35 EST Subject: Re: blue/gray flava I remember a flava that matched this description as well. It was in a drainage ditch in someones front yard between destin and santa rosa florida, and I found it originally about 10 years ago. When I returned last summer, it was gone, as were most of the other plants. The drainage ditches were being torn up in order to lay new gas and water lines. The plant had the blue gray coloration, and was heavily veined. It was just shy of 2 feet tall. Michael Catalani << In "The Savage Garden", Peter says something about Slack's "incorrectly named" cultivar S. flava "Maxima" with blue/gray coloring in the lower pitchers. What is the correct name? Is it really just a cultivar or just a characteristic of a locality? I ask because I have a S. flava grown from seed that originated from Walton County, Florida, and it shows this same blue/gray coloring in the lower pitchers. The pitchers are very stocky and shorter than my other flavas, but the rhizome is much larger. It's still a young plant though (maybe 4 years old), so it's hard to tell how tall it will eventually get. John Green Salt Lake City, Utah >> ################### From: "gentian" Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 12:06:54 -0600 Subject: Re: Outdoor bogs I assume you are talking about Wesley Whiteside's bogs, if he lives in Charleston, Illinois. He completely buries the tubs and during periods of drought he waters with well water. Every few years he replaces the surface layer of peat. I have a picture of one of his tubs on my website at http://www.geocities.com/rainforest/vines/9701 Frank Cooper central Illinois zone 5 ################### From: "gentian" Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 12:09:47 -0600 Subject: Re: Outdoor bogs The URL for the bog tub is: http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/9701/sarracenia-flava.html ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:10:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: wild collected cultivars or new taxa > It sounds like you have something new to me. Perhaps this is an > interesting form of S. * catesbaei? Generally, a cultivar doesn't come from > the wild, but there are a lot of very interesting plants out there. If Hi Dave, As you point out, while most cultivars are created in cultivation, wild collected cultivars are perfectly legitimate. If you found a nice pure species with noteworthy characteristics, or a hybrid (even of uncertain parentage), you could establish it as a cultivar. The cultivar registration forms accomodate wild-collected cultivars in question 6, where it states: Give the name of the originator or collector of this cultivar. In the case of a plant developed in cultivation, the originator is the hybridizer/breeder. In the case of a plant collected from the wild, the introducer is the person who selected the plant. In the case of the latter, include the original source or locality of the plant. Include the date of origination or collection. > there are hundreds of these plants or thousands showing these same features > at the location site, I would not call this a cultivar. However, if there > were only a handful, out of hundreds or thousands of plants, showing this > feature naming the plant as a cultivar has more merit to me. A cultivar is > supposed to be unique, showing a quality(ies) that none or almost none of > it's closest relatives show. If there are thousands of these plants near As you point out in your argument above, this is a gray area. > Which brings me to a question. If there are no wild plants of _S. > purpurea subsp. venosa var. burkii f. luteola_. Would it not be better name > this as a cultivar rather than as a taxon? This is an interesting comment. I do not know if f. luteola occurs in the wild, although plants did at one point. In a similar vein, when I found a population of anthocyanin-free Darlingtonia californica plants, I had to decide how to approach this. There were not many plants in this population, and I did not consider a mere pigment mutation to be deserving of a taxon name by the ICBN rules (i.e. I did not think the world needed a Darlingtonia californica f. luteola), even though it would have been fun and even ego-boosting to describe such a vanity-taxon. On the other hand, it was indeed a plant with significant horticultural potential, so naming it as a wild-collected cultivar seemed an excellent approach. Hence, Darlingtonia 'Othello.' Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: "John Green" Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 11:28:35 -0700 Subject: Re: S. flava "Maxima" Dave Evans wrote in regard to my S. flava with blue/gray in the lower parts of the pitchers (leaves): > It sounds like you have something new to me. Perhaps >this is an interesting form of S. * catesbaei? Generally, a cultivar >doesn't come from the wild, but there are a lot of very interesting >plants out there. If there are hundreds of these plants or >thousands showing these same features at the location site, I >would not call this a cultivar. However, if there were only a >handful, out of hundreds or thousands of plants, showing this >feature naming the plant as a cultivar has more merit to me. A >cultivar is supposed to be unique, showing a quality(ies) that none >or almost none of it's closest relatives show. If there are thousands >of these plants near this location, then they need to be studied so it >can be determined if they are new (to taxonomy) and in what way(s) >they are different of other _S. flava_. After these plants are studied, >the researchers will have go over their data and try to assign value >to any differences and come up with a possible taxonomic (Latin) >name for these plants. If you have the only one of a few plants like >this in cultivation and they do not have a presence in the wild, then >you could name it as a cultivar yourself. Did all the seedlings show >these traits? Were the seeds mixed or all from the same plant? If >you have only one odd ball out of dozens of normal plants grown from >the same mother, even more so if from the same flower, then you most >likely have a good cultivar. I have only the one plant and I obtained it from Art Junier in California. I believe that he bought the seeds from Carl Mazur. In fact, looking at Carl's price list it appears to be the one labeled as "S. flava 'Cut Throat/Stocky' Walton Co. FL," and I assume it came from a cultivated plant since it's not listed in his "Wild Seed" section. I doubt mine is unique from the others, but maybe Art or Carl could comment on their plants? If mine does turn out to be odd though, I can try to get some digital photos of it showing the bluish color in the lower parts of the pitchers. John Green Salt Lake City, Utah ################### From: Phil Wilson Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 18:44:10 +0000 Subject: Re: blue/gray flava Hi, The plant which Peter refers to in "The Savage Garden" was indeed originally named by Adrian Slack in his book, "Insect Eating Plants and How to Grow Them". There is a very good picture on page 7. The plant has no correct name. It has never been published according to the international rules of naming (difficult since Adrian selected the plant some thirty years before the rules were drafted) and as has already been pointed out, Latin names are not allowed for cultivars. Hopefully at some point this will be rectified. Adrian apparently claimed that the plant was brought over to the UK on the Queen Mary - I assume he was referring to the ship rather than the monarch, but I can't be certain on that point! At any rate the plant would appear to have been in cultivation in Europe for a considerable amount of time. The plant is certainly unique in appearance. I have never seen another plant which even comes close to it. Slack himself describes the plant thus. "..the pitchers are well formed and large, usually about 75cm tall or more. The upper part of the pitcher and the lid are golden-green, the latter being semi-circular with hardly any spur, and lightly veined and blotched with maroon within, while the lower part of the pitcher and the phyllodes have a characteristic blue-grey tint." I would class the plant as S. flava var. flava. In my opinion the uniqueness of the plant is principally in the shape of the lid, which as Slack states, are quite rounded and are relatively small in comparison to the pitcher mouth size. > ><< In "The Savage Garden", Peter says something about Slack's "incorrectly > named" cultivar S. flava "Maxima" with blue/gray coloring in the lower > pitchers. What is the correct name? Is it really just a cultivar or > just a characteristic of a locality? I ask because I have a S. flava > grown from seed that originated from Walton County, Florida, and it > shows this same blue/gray coloring in the lower pitchers. The pitchers > are very stocky and shorter than my other flavas, but the rhizome is > much larger. It's still a young plant though (maybe 4 years old), so > it's hard to tell how tall it will eventually get. > > John Green > Salt Lake City, Utah >> Phil Wilson Email: cp@pwilson.demon.co.uk ################### From: Phil Wilson Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 18:26:37 +0000 Subject: Re: South African Sundews & New Email Address Joe et al, > >I have been researching 'Temperate' Sundews (I'm going by Pietropaolo's >list) and found there are North America, South American, South African, >Australian, and some New Zealand sundews all in this group. The confusing >part is that some of these consider dormancy during the cold winter (ie: >North American), while others go dormant in the summer (South African). >This wasn't made to clear in many sources. I know I can grow the North >American Temperates well, but the New Zealand varieties seem a little >difficult after reading more about them. > Because a plant has a dormant period does not make it temperate! A number of Drosera species from the areas you mention have a period of dormancy, usually but not always, to escape the hot dry summer months. Plants from these areas will either form tubers (Australia, New Zealand plus one or two other locations), dense buds of stipules, leaf-like appendages (Australia and New Zealand) or fleshy roots (South Africa and possibly South America). To make things more complicated some Drosera species are dormant over the winter period rather than the summer. This is usually dependant on both the species concerned and the local conditions. If in doubt about when a species is normally dormant look at where it grows. Plants growing in Brazil for instance are unlikely to have long hard winters! Most winter growing Drosera species are a bit more of a challenge to grow but are worth persevering with. Some species are definitely easier than others, mostly in respect of their requirements during dormancy. I suggest starting with something like D. peltata which in my experience is tolerant of a wide range of dormancy conditions ranging from bone dry to wet! Regards, Phil Wilson Email: cp@pwilson.demon.co.uk ################### From: "John Green" Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 12:42:16 -0700 Subject: Re: Outdoor bogs Susan wrote: >I'm using three rigid pools with irregular shapes: the middle one >will be a pond, and the other two are jigsawed on either side of >the pond to be bogs. I leveled the pond (or pretty darn close to >level), but I've decided to tilt both the bogs slightly, which should >allow me to have a drier upper end, and a wetter lower end. I >guess I'll drill a couple of holes a few inches from the top on the >lower end, to keep it from becoming total soup if it pours for days. >How does this sound to those who have tried outdoor bogs? It sounds to me like you have a pretty good plan. I definitely think the rigid pond forms are the best way to go. On tilting the bogs, I'd suggest to not tilt them too much or it might end up too dry on the upper end. A lot depends on how much rain you get and how hot it is throughout the summer, or how much you'll be able to water it with "clean" water. Since my rain water is limited to what I can reasonably store, I have to depend a lot on the summer thunderstorms to keep the bog fairly wet, or use the hose and hope for the best. My current hole-in-the-ground bog has a high spot about 2 to 3 inches higher than the lowest spot, and it gets a bit dry. I'd love to see pictures of your bog when you get it finished, so let us know. As for Chris' fungus problems, I agree that a mulch of pine needles should be fine. I've used straw the last two years (my neighbor always has a bale left over after Halloween decorating) and it's terrible. It gets soggy and blows all over and is full of seeds, and grows a lot of fungus, but it hasn't harmed my S. oreos. From now on I'll find pine needles instead, particularly since this year I'll be growing much more than just oreos in the bog. Another thing I might suggest, is that I let my bog dry out a bit before I mulch it over. Since it's under the rain gutter I bought one of those flexible tubes that runs the water a few feet away. Hope it helps. John Green Salt Lake City, Utah ################### From: ghh@aol.com Date: Tue, 29 Feb 00 15:01:22 EST Subject: It's so exciting, here's your tickets!

Click Here

OR go to http://209.155.119.174/flyaway/getaway/ ################### From: "tierney wayne" Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:55:03 PST Subject: Re: Mealies on VFT Hi, I always spray mine with Orthene and it's never hurt. For mealy bugs I think it's easiest to have a systemic. The submersion method that someone mentioned is more environmentally friendly though! (But can you really be sure that they ALL died...?) Anyway, I think you have Orthene "over there", right? -Tierney > > I have a four year old (thriving) VFT which has inherited mealies from >my > > cacti during the winter months. I have picked out all the old brown >stalks > > etc. & used tweezers to remove visible varmints. Although I use Sybol > >&Rapid > > aerosols on cacti I'm a bit nervous to use these on the VFT. Can anyone > > recommend treatment with insecticides available over here in the UK? > ################### From: "Dave Evans" Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 18:58:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Mealies on VFT Hi Tierney, > I always spray mine with Orthene and it's never hurt. For mealy bugs I think > it's easiest to have a systemic. The submersion method that someone > mentioned is more environmentally friendly though! (But can you really be > sure that they ALL died...?) Anyway, I think you have Orthene "over there", > right? Well, you are right, but then again I have not had much luck completely killing off infestations when I used poisons either. It is very hard to kill all the bugs in a large collection. If you can poor some poison on a couple pots and then wrap them in plastic, treating them as though they are cuttings, is very, very effective. I use plastic since all my tropical plants are inside the house and I don't want to expose surfaces, and hence people, to any poison. I don't think Mealy bugs are very hard to kill. From my experience and others', mealies are light weights. I have gotten rid of them just by placing some infested plants outside. I don't know what happened to them, maybe they were eaten or maybe they left on their own. Now scale on the other hand is very hard to get rid of and their eggs last a long time. Also, scale is harder to notice and can really get insidious. I would suggest that you use soap, pryrethrens, wait a couple days and apply then Orthene -- then repeat in about eight days. It's not like I will not use poison, but I will not use it if I don't need to. Not quite sure why anyone would... Dave Evans ################### From: "Greg Bourke" Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 21:54:47 EST Subject: D regia Has anyone had luck producing seed on D regia. I have two different clones but no luck. Also B. reducta. The plant has been flowering since November and looks as though it will continue for another two months! Only 3-8 flowers are open per day but flowers long gone are not swelling. Should they? The plant has produced 5 pups from the base and two between the leaves themselves but seed would be nice. ################### From: "Susan Farrington" Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 07:01:12 -0600 Subject: Re: Outdoor bogs To "gentian": No, the bogs in Illinois aren't the ones you refer to, but thanks for mentioning those! I'll check out the website pictures. To John Green and others: Thanks for the advice about my outdoor bog. I installed them this past week, and I tilted them a bit, but not a whole lot. We got some rain after I installed the second one, but didn't have it filled yet, so I got to see how the water settled in the bottom: it was deeper on the low end, but not that much deeper than the high end. So hopefully it will work. Thanks for the straw comments also... I will definitely stick to pine needles instead of straw! Susan Susan Farrington Missouri Botanical Garden P.O. Box 299 St. Louis MO 63166-0299 susan.farrington@mobot.org (314)577-9402 ################### From: "PHILIP SHERIDAN" Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 08:55:40 -0500 Subject: Re: S. purpurea nomenclature Hi Folks: A few comments on S. purpurea nomenclature. Even though we now have S. rosea written up as a new species I would like to make the point that we have already, in a number of publications, applied the epithet "green" to designate all anthocyanin-free mutations which are blocked in a late stage of anthocyanin biosynthesis (see our 1998 Plant Science 135: 11-16 article for how to perform diagnostic tests, HortScience 1998 33: 1042-1045, and CPN 1997 26:51-64, 1996 25:19-23, 1993 22: 58-61). These publications appeared before any of the more recent designations. Despite this we have had publications naming "f. luteolata" for mutations in southern S. purpurea and now I see talk of S. rosea f. luteolata. We recently published an abstract in 1999 in the Association of Southeastern Biologists Bulletin 46: 177 titled "Sarracenia purpurea L. ssp. venosa (Raf) Wherry var. burkii Schnell (green) new to Florida" announcing the discovery of this same mutation in Florida. Do we really need a separate form designation, wit h different names (e.g. heterophylla vs. luteolata) for every single anthocyanin-free mutation found! We proposed the term "green" to avoid confusion and to apply a single succinct term for a biochemically testable mutation. Any comments? Sincerely, Phil Sheridan Director Meadowview Biological Research Station ################### From: steve steve Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 07:37:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: pings in the paper Dear All, There is a free morning paper in London called Metro (it is distributed on the underground railway). Anyway this morning (Wed) on page 36 there is an article about events in London. Apparently Kew Gardens will be: "Ablaze with wild flowers as part of its 80 million (pound) Millennium Seed Bank project to protect wild plants" The accompanying photo shows Dr Mike Maunders holding up a nice looking Pinguicula ! Well it brightened up my morning. Steve ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 08:40:15 -0800 Subject: Re: D regia Hi Greg, >Has anyone had luck producing seed on D regia. I have two different clones >but no luck. While I don't have this plant in my collection, successful growers have told me to produce seed requires hand pollination, preferably between plants (rather than selfing). Seed rarely sets when left on its own. Chris ################### From: steve steve Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 11:46:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: Mealies and scale Dear All, I had acouple of S. purpurea which I rescued from a garden centre last year and... horrors... the scale bugs soon developed. The infestation was BAD. I dug them out of the pots and binned all the compost. Washed the roots carefully and then removed all the infested pitchers and yes, that meant ALL the pitchers. I ended up repotting roots with a tiny growing tip. Despite the frosts they have developed over the autumn/winter into fine plants. Lovely fat pitcher and no scale. If the infestation is so bad that you are thinking of binning the plant, you could try removing all leaves and letting the plant regenerate itself. Steve ################### From: Paul Temple Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 20:43:09 +0000 Subject: Re: wild collected cultivars or new taxa >...wild collected cultivars are perfectly legitimate ... >Give the name of the originator or collector of this cultivar... Oh I hate to be a killjoy but - to raise the matter of international conventions on wild plants, theoretically any body authorised to "validate" a new cultivar originating from the wild must be placing itself at risk. The conventions require collectors to have permission to collect - so unlesss a validating organisation asks whether wild sourced cultivars were collected with permission, the organisation could be guilty of validating an illegally collected specimen. This then leads into a can of worms - e.g. can a person who illegally collects a specimen be rewarded with validation of their choice of cultivar name? Now please don't shoot the messenger folks. I think this set of conventions is very poorly defined and counter productive. Written by idiots is the phrase that comes to mind. But the convention exists so I just thought I'd remind y'all of it. Chers Paul ################### From: CALIFCARN@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 16:19:58 EST Subject: Re: S. flava "maxima" Howdy; Peter here at California Carnivores. Phil Wilson is quite correct and I thank him for quoting Slack's description of his so-called S. flava "maxima" plant. I explained this in The Savage Garden. We not only have Slack's plant (I grow it out here in California, a clone of his original plant which is not widely cultivated in the U.S.A.) and it fits Slack's description perfectly. But unfortunately, many folks may still be growing large Sarracenia flavas from the Florida panhandle area which were also dubiously called "maximas". As I pointed out and as Doctor Don (Schnell) discovered, the original-original "maxima" were large all-green flavas from the North Carolina area. I guess one way to clear some of this up is for someone (hey Phil) to rename Slack's "maxima" and register it as a cultivar. Seeya. ################### From: Andrew Bate Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 22:00:52 +0000 Subject: UK plant trading list For any UK growers out there, if you have any plants that you want to try and sell or trade, or are looking for plants to buy please feel free to list them on CPUK (http://www.cpuk.org.uk) This is specifically a UK list as the main CP trading post (http://www.hpl.hp.com/bot/cp_read) seems to be mainly US orientated or location is not specified. Regards, Andrew -- andrew@cpuk.org.uk | A UK Specific Guide http://www.cpuk.org.uk | to Carnivorous Plant Resources ################### From: jneps Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 18:13:21 -0700 Subject: Re: D regia Hi, I have successfully produced seed from D. regia by selfing it about three years ago. The seeds were fertile; I produced a number of seedlings. Just self-pollinate as you would for any Drosera. Jeff Shafer Greg Bourke wrote: > > Has anyone had luck producing seed on D regia. I have two different clones > but no luck. > Also B. reducta. The plant has been flowering since November and looks as > though it will continue for another two months! Only 3-8 flowers are open > per day but flowers long gone are not swelling. Should they? The plant has > produced 5 pups from the base and two between the leaves themselves but seed > would be nice. ################### From: "Fernando Rivadavia Lopes" Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 00:19:14 -0300 Subject: On the road again... and U.nelumbifolia Dear Friends, Sorry I've been so quiet lately! The new job has been keeping me real busy, but at least I'm enjoying it! I'm just writing to say hello to all and that I'll write more ASAP. BUT... I'll be away for 2 weeks and don't know if I'll have e-mail access. Taking advantage of Carnaval hollidays (and the fact that I'm not too keen on samba), I'll be getting away from it all and going to the E Amazon, in the state of Para. I'll be searching for CPs (not many around there unfortunately) although the main objective is to study the non-CPs Podostemaceae with a friend. I'll be going to Santarem and Maraba. Afterwards, I'll be spending a week at Belem for work. So I'll only be back around March 19. Therefore, whoever wrote to me recently will have to wait a little more for a reply.... sorry! Anyways, an interesting story before I go. I discovered a beautiful patch of U.nelumbifolia...... SMACK in the middle of bustling chaotic Sao Paulo city!!!! It's true!! A few years ago I would've killed for such location info! But it's not natural, merely acidental..... Recently, I've been noticing that bromeliads are become increasingly popular landscaping plants in S.Paulo (they can grow outdoors here, no problem). By far the most popular is _Vriesia imperialis_, a beautiful reddish species which can grow gigantic. I was hoping this popularity was maybe due to increasing tissue culture plants, making them cheaper. But U.nelumbifolia proved me wrong unfortunately. Two weeks ago I'd stopped for a quick lunck at a McDonald's in one of S.Paulo's busiest crossings. I noticed my bank across the street and remembered I needed to get some money. So I ran over while munching down my meal. Walking up to the bank, I realized that behind a fenced garden there was a beautiful patch of V.imperialis, one of many new ones I've been seeing around. Knowing that this species is probably the most popular host of U.nelumbifolia (both occuring in the same regions of SE Brazil), I couldn't resist taking a closer look to see if there were any. As some of you may remember, the first time I saw U.nelumbifolia was at the Rio de Janeiro botanic Garden in late 95, having hitchhiked their way with there in bromeliads obviously collected from the wild. I knew from experience that it was impossible for gardeners to remove U.nelumbifolia if they wanted to "clean" bromeliads for sale, since when you pluck a leaf, the stolon stays behind, tightly packed sandwiched bromeliad leaves. Anyways, since the discovery of hitchhiker U.nelumbifolia in Rio, I've had the habit of looking inside all large bromeliads I see in gardens -- out of pure whishful thinking. Never did see any more though (except in the wild)... at least not until now. So as I examined the bromeliad garden at the bank, I wasn't too surprised when I realised that several of them were covered with the umbrella-like leaves of U.nelumbifolia, sticking out like a miniature lotus garden from imbetween the neatly trimmed bromeliad leaves around the base of the large rosettes. I guess what most surprised (and saddened) me in this otherwise most enjoyable moment, was the irrefutable proof that these beautiful bromeliads (and probably most others I've been seeing all around) had actually been collected from the wild. Of course it's illegal, but the law is just not imposed too well unfortunately. My only comfort is that many of the cliffs where V.imperialis and U.nelumbifolia grow naturally are simply too inaccessible to be poached! Unbelievable, huh?! I'll have to try and find the time to go back and take a closer look and some pics -- maybe even get a few cuttings if they allow me to jump the fence. There were no flowers unfortunately, but still a very nice U.nelumbifolia patch! Best Wishes and 'Till Late March! Fernando Rivadavia Sao Paulo, Brazil P.S. For my friends in S.Paulo who wanna see this U.nelumbifolia patch in our own "backyard": elas estao no banco Itau localizado na esquina da Av.Reboucas com a Av.Brasil, do outro lado da rua do MacDonald's (na verdade eh Reboucas). Nao poderia ser em local mais movimentado, incrivel nao?? Qtas outras populacoes de U.nelumbifolia devem existir em SP e outras cidades por ai..... ?? Sera que conseguimos convencer os guardas do Itau a nos deixar pular a cerca pra ver as plantas de perto e coletar algumas? Sera que eles vao acreditar que nao somos mesmo assaltantes??? :):) ################### From: "Dave Evans" Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 00:03:27 -0500 Subject: Re: S. purpurea nomenclature Dear Phil, I agree with you about this. The one and only exception to this would be _S. purpurea purpurea heterophylla_. It's a lousy name, but the plants do form colonies with large numbers of individuals, hence why I feel the do deserve a taxonomic name, hence the name "heterophylla" has to be retained. However, there have been no published reports of any other anthocyanin-free pitchers plants forming colonies with anymore a couple plants. So none of them should be accepted, in my opinion. Also, it would be nice if people did stop publishing such names of no merit. Before publishing new name, how about doing some research? Also, what is wrong with simply calling the plant, say, "_S. rosei_ all-green"? This not directed at Phil, of course, but to people who seem to publish papers, just to have their name on something published--or so it would seem. Phil, I think "all-green" is a bit more accurate as there are many plants that can still produce anthocyanins, but are nearly always green anyway.... So I guess it would be better to call these plants "green" and those which can't produce any colors but green (and yellow and white which are obscured by the green anyway) in order to keep these separate from those that are just mostly green. >Do we really need a separate form designation, with different names (e.g. >heterophylla vs. luteolata) for every single anthocyanin-free mutation found! Please, God, I hope not. I think only organisms/plants that have or had a presence (meaning more than a couple of freaks, indicating an evolutionary advantage) in the wild should get taxonomic names. That is the intent anyway, but people are free to write what they want and publishers are free to publish what they want... But be warned, if we use up all the accurate and valid names on bogus plants, we will start running out of good names for those taxa which should be accepted. Once a name is validily published (but not accepted by anyone but the author) it can't be used again, even if a plant is later found for which that name would be very accurate. Dave Evans ################### From: "Dave Evans" Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 00:38:02 -0500 Subject: Re: wild collected cultivars or new taxa Paul, People can and should ask for/get written permission and/or permits from the owner(s) to collect plants or seeds, depending on the situation. You are right about collecting cultivars from the wild, but whether it's a problem depends on the species and where it's growing. Some people who are interested in certain plants might even have these plants growing wild right on their own property (though it's not too likely). BTW, if we are talking about new taxa, the only way to get them protection is to publish them and show they have only a very small range and are threatened and/or endangered. Also, if we don't get any real habitat protection, there will not be any wild areas to collect from soon. And this is what we need to fight for. Dave Evans ################### From: Vitor Fernandes Oliveira de Miranda Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 08:08:24 -0300 (GRNLNDST) Subject: growing Drosera regia Dear folks, I have some seeds of D. regia and I never had cultivated this species. The seeds have been maintained in refrigerator at +- 4 degrees Celcius. Now, I have to take on germination, for my research on Drosera cladistics. Could anybody help me with some advices, how I should proceed? Any informations are welcome, even the more simplistic... (I have now idea how to cultivate this species!) Thanks in advance. Vitor ------- Vitor Fernandes Oliveira de Miranda Botanical Department Unesp - S\343o Paulo State University Rio Claro, SP Brazil ------- ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 13:10:00 Subject: Re: wild collected cultivars or new taxa Dear Paul, Not that I always have to disagree with what you are writing here (just take all incidences in which I did not reply as implicit endorsement) but some of the rules you mentioned are not international law. > theoretically any body authorised to "validate" a new cultivar (NB: a cultivar is described with a publication, whereby its name is "established" according to the ICNCP, no "validation" is involved with cultivars; they are not taxa in the sense of the ICBN). > originating from the wild must be placing > itself at risk. The conventions require collectors to have permission > to collect - so unlesss a validating organisation asks whether wild > sourced cultivars were collected with permission, the organisation could > be guilty of validating an illegally collected specimen. This applies only to some countries (e.g. the UK and the USA, so it might be of importance to *most* readers of this list but definitely not to *all* persons world wide). The *international* regulations in operation at present concern 1. the protection of endangered species (CITES) and 2. the sustainable use of natural resources (Rio convention). If a wild plant is collected in a country (like e.g. Germany) that does not regulate the removal of limited amounts of specimens of non- protected species for non-commercial purposes from non-protected areas, and if this plant is propagated and bred into a cultivar, it (i.e. the propagated offspring) may even be sold commercially without any legal risk. Likewise, a specimen collected in the wild (considering the mentioned restrictions) can become a type specimen of the name of a new taxon without the violation of any law in such countries. For the sake of fairness it should, however, be mentioned that most cps *are* protected by law in many countries (incl. Germany). Natural resources are principally/originally free of any proprietary claims, especially if a certain sample size is not exceeded. Only some countries or organizations *created* special restrictions. But these must not be mistaken for international agreements. They are local (most frequently national) legislation. Once it comes to selling plants, the Rio convention would of course demand an "appropriate" part of the revenue achieved to be shared with an "appropriate" authority in the country of origin. It is, however, at least in the case of cps rather difficult to assess the meaning and extent of "appropriate" here. > e.g. can a person who illegally collects a > specimen be rewarded with validation of their choice of cultivar name? You have to consider that it simply is not principally always illegal to collect wild plants. For the purposes of registration of its name, it is essentially immaterial how a given cultivar was created or selected. The only thing that matters for the IRA here is that the name is acceptable according to the (predominantly nomenclatural) rules of the ICNCP. It is *not* the responsibility of a registration authority to evaluate cultivars or persons who want to register names. It is perhaps rather a moral issue to the horticultural community if one wants to buy plants from a source known for poaching. > I think this set of conventions is very poorly defined and counter > productive. Well, it depends. It is of course always disputable what is a limited sample or what should be property in natural environments. > Written by idiots is the phrase that comes to mind. But I trust most were written with at least some good intentions (albeit with limited expert knowledge and too little reflection on eventual consequences on a global scale). > But the convention exists so I just thought I'd remind y'all of it. Yes, but the conventions that exist can have quite different consequences in different countries. Kind regards Jan ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 09:07:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: wild-collected cultivars > Oh I hate to be a killjoy but - to raise the matter of international > conventions on wild plants, theoretically any body authorised to > "validate" a new cultivar originating from the wild must be placing > itself at risk. The conventions require collectors to have permission > to collect - so unlesss a validating organisation asks whether wild > sourced cultivars were collected with permission, the organisation could > be guilty of validating an illegally collected specimen. This then Hi Paul, Of course, the ICPS (in its conservation policies) condemns illegal field collection. I believe this is clear. Field collection can be done, however, in many cases in entirely legitimate and appropriate ways, as long as appropriate permissions are obtained, and biologically appropriate behavior is maintained. I am not, of course, condoning indiscriminant collecting---anyone who has spent much time in the field with me has probably seen me use extremely colorful language when I discover indications of plant theft. Life is complex, no doubt about it. Black and white distinctions between good and evil only exist in Star Wars films! Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: "Steven Venter" Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 19:57:43 +0200 Subject: ICPS Gallery Hi everyone! The photos which were contributed for the March gallery are now online. Thanks to all contributors for the excellent photographs...including a wonderfully pink Ping from John Brittnacher. If you browsed the gallery while I was still tweaking it, you would have seen the Pink Ping incorrectly attributed to Phil Mann. My apologies. Have a look at: http://www.carnivorousplants.org/gallery/memgal0300.html I'm now accepting submissions for the April gallery. The theme is " Caught in Action!" and I'm looking forward to seeing all manner of crawlies meeting their sticky end. The submission guidelines can be found at http://www.carnivorousplants.org/gallery/submissions.html Thanks, and keep them coming! Steven Venter ICPS Gallery Curator gallery@carnivorousplants.org ################### From: "C. J. Mazur" Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 15:33:52 -0500 Subject: Re: ICPS Gallery Hi all, took a look at the gallery, looks nice, however, is it just me or does the all red plant shown there look like a flava!!! and not alata!!! Best Carl Mazur VP ICPS > Hi everyone! > > The photos which were contributed for the March gallery are now online. > Thanks to all contributors for the excellent photographs...including a > wonderfully pink Ping from John Brittnacher. If you browsed the gallery > while I was still tweaking it, you would have seen the Pink Ping incorrectly > attributed to Phil Mann. My apologies. > > Have a look at: http://www.carnivorousplants.org/gallery/memgal0300.html > > I'm now accepting submissions for the April gallery. The theme is " Caught > in Action!" and I'm looking forward to seeing all manner of crawlies meeting > their sticky end. > > The submission guidelines can be found at > http://www.carnivorousplants.org/gallery/submissions.html > > Thanks, and keep them coming! > Steven Venter > ICPS Gallery Curator > gallery@carnivorousplants.org > > > ################### From: "Phillip Crane" Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 02:45:07 -0800 Subject: Domes?? I've been looking for those cute little plastic domes that go over the stock plastic pots that carnivorous plants are usually seen in. If anyone has an idea on where I can find the domes, please let me know! Thx, Phil ################### From: "Michael Hunt" Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 10:12:09 -0500 Subject: Re: ICPS Gallery I think the gallery is a good idea, and hopefully will get many contributions. I enjoyed looking at it this month. Carl, I am with you. Mike Kings pictured S. alata looks like a S. flava to me as well ~Mike St. Petersburg Fl ################### From: Paul Temple Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 21:33:55 +0000 Subject: Re: wild collected cultivars or new taxa Jan As is usually true, you are of course correct - well at least on the validation/establishment point! A slip of my typing finger. I meant "establsh" rather than "vaidate" - my error. >This applies only to some countries (e.g. the UK and the USA, so it >might be of importance to *most* readers of this list but definitely >not to *all* persons world wide). The *international* regulations in >operation at present concern 1. the protection of endangered species >(CITES) and 2. the sustainable use of natural resources (Rio >convention). I'm not convinced. I've not received notification that the international convention covering rights to endemics has been re-inbterpreted. As a wild origin cultivar and endemic species both fall within the endemic definition, I still believe that a county automatically owns the rights to all material and all information pertaining to such material (live, dead or preserved) until it revokes such rights. If a non-endemic is involved, it's outside the scope. But if a specimen starts as an endemic, and someone removes it, breeds from it and develops a cultivar, I still belive the originating county of origin owns all rights. But I have to say, there's been no tst case and I wouldn't fancy the chances of a country winning such a case. >Natural resources are principally/originally free of any proprietary >claims, especially if a certain sample size is not exceeded. Only >some countries or organizations *created* special restrictions. But >these must not be mistaken for international agreements. They are >local (most frequently national) legislation. I'm definately not convinced. I thought this was exactly the problem of the biodiversity convention in that it specifically did bind all ownership of all natural resources (endemics) to the source country. >Once it comes to selling plants, the Rio convention would of course >demand an "appropriate" part of the revenue achieved to be shared with >an "appropriate" authority in the country of origin. It is, however, >at least in the case of cps rather difficult to assess the meaning >and extent of "appropriate" here. And unless the source country has the right to define "appropriate" there would not be an agreement so to allow this, surely the convention must, asI believe it does, bind ownership to the source country. Back to your "German" example - I don't believe the convention distinguishes between countries that allow natural resources to be sampled (e.g. Germany) and those that don't (e.g. Mexico). The rights exist and prsumably a country 9like germany) can not enforce it's rights if it doesn't wish to. In any case, the convention isthere to stop countries like Germany (and UK and USA and Japan, etc.) from removal of resources from so called un-developed countries. >You have to consider that it simply is not principally always illegal >to collect wild plants. For the purposes of registration of its name, >it is essentially immaterial how a given cultivar was created or >selected. The only thing that matters for the IRA here is that the >name is acceptable according to the (predominantly nomenclatural) >rules of the ICNCP. It is *not* the responsibility of a registration >authority to evaluate cultivars or persons who want to register >names. It is perhaps rather a moral issue to the horticultural >community if one wants to buy plants from a source known for >poaching. And I think yo8 are making my point. The IRA's indeed have no responsibilty, by convention or law, to protect the environment or uphold any rules that do so. But if one talks to the countries who most support the bio convention implemenation within their bordrs, one specific aim of implementation is that they can protect whaqt they view as their rights to the material sourced within their boundaries. Thus, a Cuban botanist no longer expects, and certain does not wish, to have to ask a foreign herbarium for a loan of material originating from Cuba (for new species, etc. originatiung since the bio convention). They (as do Mexican botanists) consider it pure colonialism that foreign botanists (not just comercial plant hunters) remove their endemic material and lay claim to it. Tey are nt against research or publication. They object to being excluded from the choice to participate, and they object to ownership of endemic material being dictated by anyone other than them. As you said, this is an entirely moral point of view as regards the IRA's. But as I said in the earlier mail, if an IRA agrees establishment of a name then a can of worms has been opened and the IRA will inevitably become a target of criticism, albeit that it has no legal rsponsibility. Cubans, Mexicans, Venezuelans, and many others will object if botanists are allowed to remove endemic material for naming purposes without the express permission of the source country. Most of these countries are not concerned with the financial issues yet (though where native aboriginal peoples exist financial aspects are definately a real issue), its therefore the botanists, professional or not, that are their curent concern. >But I trust most were written with at least some good intentions >(albeit with limited expert knowledge and too little reflection on >eventual consequences on a global scale). Totally agree. Too many academics, lawyers, etc., not wide enough discussion with others, especially thos e who are directly involved in sampling, botanists or otherwise. Still, I don't think we differ so much in what we think affects the countries most concerned to protect their rich source of endemics. (But if I did disagree, don't worry that I'll flame back a response - I like debate, even if i'm proved wrong!) And while I admit to still being unable to get better clarification of how the convention might be reinterpreted, I hope to chat to an expert soon. Regards Paul ################### From: Douglas Tryck Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 19:45:15 -0900 Subject: Northern bog garden With all the talk about bog gardens, I thought I'd share my bog building experience from up here in Alaska. I've always enjoyed the native Alaskan cp's and orchids, and realized that to grow and display them I needed to duplicate their natural environment as much as possible. I was putting in a new garden with a waterlily pond and since the area slopes towards the south the natural place for the bog would be down from the watergarden and used as the overflow drainage catchment. I dug out an area about 10' by 10', lined it with a 40 mile butyl (SP), then filled it to a depth of about 3' with a mixture of equal parts milled peatmoss and sand. I was also sure to have the bog slope with the elevation of the uphill end being about two feet higher than the lower. I wanted part of it to not be soggy. I wanted the plants to wick up water if they needed it. Then I promptly filled it up with Sarracena purpurea ( three different far north strains), Pinguicula vulgaris, Pinguicula macroceras (syn. P vulgaris var. macroceras), Drosera angelica, D. rotundifolia, also Cupripedium guttatum, C. yatabeanum, Dactylorhiza aristata, and lots of little green orchids. At the low end I put two species of Pacific skunk cabbages, Lysichiton americanum and L.camschatcense. At the top to give it a finished look, I put in one of those plant monsters with emormous leaves. I planted Petisites japonica. I also threw in a host of Primulas.The garden was finished in 1998. There is still a good month of winter up here and I'm waiting for spring to see how everything did over the winter. Doug Tryck Anchorage, Alaska ################### From: Michael King Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 14:32:37 -0500 Subject: Re: ICPS Gallery Dear All, The plant is definately S. Flava!! I should know, I was the one who took the picture! How it came to an S.Alata labelling is a mystery! Best Regards Mike King See my Carnivorous Plant Website: http://www.soft.net.uk/newcombe/ssar/homepage.htm ################### From: anothers@AllThePlanet.com Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 21:04:36 Subject: Email Advertising Works for You E-MAIL-IT SPECIAL (Ends March 07/00) ADVERTISING THAT WORKS FOR YOU Call Ins Receive 25,000 Additional Emails at No Cost! For More information call 919-839-2942 or include your name and number in an email and mailto:emailsbyobc@fiberia.com, for removal see link below. We Will Assist You in Developing Your Entire Campaign WE CAN CREATE YOUR AD FOR YOU Whether You Are Looking For Sales, Leads or Exposure OBC OFFERS Targeted or General Mailings With Fresh Addresses Always We GUARANTEE response ! We accept credit cards ! SPECIAL Ends March 07, 2000 250,000 $250 500,000 $450 1 MILLION $775 2 MILLION $1295 Targeted Rates Upon Request For More Information Call: 919-839-2942 or include your name and number in an email and mailto:adsbyobc@mailcity.com?subject=info, for removal utilize link below. Call Ins Receive 25,000 Additional Emails at No Cost! IMPORTANT: For Fastest Service Please Provide Your Name and Contact Number +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ For Removal Mailto:etrash@mailcity.com?subject=remove ################### From: FOODBAG@aol.com Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 23:04:38 EST Subject: domes >I've been looking for those cute little plastic domes that go over the stock >plastic pots that carnivorous plants are usually seen in. If anyone has an >idea on where I can find the domes, please let me know! >Thx, >Phil If you are talking about those pplastic cup-like dmes over TC commercial brands like "Little Pot of Horrors", you can use a clear plastic solo cup, if you trim the lip of the cup with a razor or exacto knife(unless you are lucky enough to find a odd-size pot where it would fit perfectly). However, if anyone knows a commercial source for pots with lids, I would be interested to know about it. Joe Griffin Lincoln, Nebraska ################### From: Borneo Exotics Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 20:12:16 +0600 Subject: Nepenthes web site update Hi Folks, For the Nepenthophiles amongst you, the web site at http://www.borneoexotics.com has just been updated. Please go the the What's New page for details. Best Regards, rob Cantley ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 21:20:30 Subject: Re: wild collected cultivars or new taxa Dear Paul, > I'm not convinced. I've not received notification that the > international convention covering rights to endemics has been > re-inbterpreted. As a wild origin cultivar and endemic species both > fall within the endemic definition, I still believe that a county > automatically owns the rights to all material and all information > pertaining to such material (live, dead or preserved) until it revokes > such rights. This may be true in theory. In reality, however, nobody will make a stink at a legal level if e.g. a Mexican described a new species e.g. from Germany, the name of which based on a type specimen deposited (without duplicates) e.g. in BO. If you change some nations in the scenario above, you may admittedly run into big trouble. > If a non-endemic is involved, it's outside the scope. I guess you mean non-indigenous here. It would make little sense to limit rights concerning natural resources to exclusively the endemic species (of course, the provenience of endemic material is always obvious, so legal action is facilitated). > if a specimen starts as an endemic, and someone removes it, breeds from > it and develops a cultivar, I still belive the originating county of > origin owns all rights. Yes, in theory. > But I have to say, there's been no tst case and > I wouldn't fancy the chances of a country winning such a case. This is a rather important point. Few countries would try that for items of seriously limited commercial value (like most cps, once they are available through tissue culture). > I thought this was exactly the problem of > the biodiversity convention in that it specifically did bind all > ownership of all natural resources (endemics) to the source country. A large number of countries do simply not care because they know that not much in terms of $$ can be gained from these ownership rights. The proprietary rights some countries (US, UK) grant to land-owners aim in the first line at the protection of the owners' cattle and cereals, and noone seriously considered the protection of natural resources back in the historical times when these laws were written. > The rights exist and prsumably a country 9like germany) can not > enforce it's rights if it doesn't wish to. This is the point. > In any case, the convention isthere to stop > countries like Germany (and UK and USA and Japan, etc.) from removal of > resources from so called un-developed countries. Certainly. > As you said, this is an entirely moral point of view as regards the > IRA's. You got me (and the ICNCP) entirely wrong here. Registration of a cultivar name does not have any implications for proprietary rights connected with the corresponding cultivar. It serves exclusively the uniform and unambiguous *naming* of cultivated plants at an international level. Therefore, no (ZERO) moral or legal issues (except those mentioned in the ICNCP, and there is no means to enforce these rules; the whole procedure depends on the understanding and the good will of breeders and growers world wide) are connected with cultivar name registration. The ICPS as the cp IRA will register any acceptable cultivar name irrespective of its origin or the origin of the cultivar. We are not even entitled to reject a name if it is acceptable ICNCP-wise. This is simply not our job. > But as I said in the earlier mail, if an IRA agrees > establishment of a name then a can of worms has been opened and the IRA > will inevitably become a target of criticism, albeit that it has no > legal rsponsibility. Well, anyone is free to criticize almost everything, but I guess the hypothetical critic will have a difficult case here. > Cubans, Mexicans, Venezuelans, and many others > will object if botanists are allowed to remove endemic material for > naming purposes without the express permission of the source country. Maybe they will, but they have to complain to the introducer, the originator or the registrant (the person who wants to register a cultivar name) rather than to the IRA. The IRA will give the data connected with a registered name to all who ask for them (and who are prepared to cover the IRA's expenses for this service). It is not responsible for the plants, their owners, or whatsoever outside the ICNCP regulations. > Most of these countries are not concerned with the financial issues yet > (though where native aboriginal peoples exist financial aspects are > definately a real issue), its therefore the botanists, professional or > not, that are their curent concern. Maybe. But this does not have anything to do with IRAs. Kind regards Jan ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 15:27:21 -0800 Subject: Webpage Hi everyone, I just put up a webpage with a few pictures from my collection, growing information, etc. Check it out at: http://www.geocities.com/cteichreb Feel free to pass along any comments, etc. I did the coding in a text editor and am using Netscape Nav. 4.05 at 800 x 600 resolution, so I'm not sure what it'll look like on IE or other browsers (but let me know!). Thanks! Happy growing, Chris ################### From: Sunpitcher@aol.com Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 22:01:11 EST Subject: airlayering H. tatei. I said I'd let you guys know how the airlayering of my huge tatei was progressing. (Some of you have or have seen a photo of this plant in its heyday). The top part of the plant has been growing like gang busters even though it was only attached to the stem and roots by a tiny piece of tissue. I had finally decided to decapitate the plant and removed the saran wrap from the stem and believe it or not--there are these monster roots popping out of the stem way above where the air layer cut is. Suprised me!! These roots are so fat and fleshy that they look more like nodes popping than roots. I think I'll let them get a little longer before I put it in a pot. Another good thing, got plants coming up from the roots! I was hoping this would happen before I ran out of patience with the whole experiment. So now you know, you CAN air layer a stem forming Heliamphora. :) Angie Nichols. South Carolina, USA ################### From: Paul McCullough Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 22:18:25 -0500 Subject: Nepenthes Cocciena I just bought a pretty adult looking plant at the Philadelphia Flower Show today for $35.00. According to the vendor, these don't like direct Sun and he also said the soil type is unimportant- it can be acidic or neutral? Funny, I thought all nepenthes wanted acidic soils- guess I need to reread my copy of "Savage Garden" for this. The only thing that bothers me is that it's growing in what looks like typical potting soil (black with white miniature spheres). This can't be good for a nepenthes, can it??? Anyway, the pitchers on them are wonderful- each about 7" tall! Cheers, Paul ps- flower show was better then average this year- once again, one display had trumpet pitchers in an ornamental pond scene. There was also the annual, poorly lit bog scene. There were many sundews, pitchers, and VFT on sale in the market area of the show. -- My New Webpage URLs: -------------------- 3D Animation World: http://members.home.net/paulmcc Carnivorous Plant Page: http://members.home.net/paulmcc/carniv.htm Movie Reviews: http://members.home.net/paulmcc/movies.htm ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 21:47:07 -0800 Subject: Re: Nepenthes Cocciena Hi Paul, >I just bought a pretty adult looking plant at the Philadelphia Flower >Show today for $35.00. According to the vendor, these don't like direct >Sun and he also said the soil type is unimportant- it can be acidic or >neutral? Funny, I thought all nepenthes wanted acidic soils- guess I >need to reread my copy of "Savage Garden" for this. The only thing that >bothers me is that it's growing in what looks like typical potting soil >(black with white miniature spheres). This can't be good for a >nepenthes, can it??? This is a pretty robust hybrid. Although it's a lowlander hybrid, mine takes fairly cool temperatures. Some Nepenthes actually grow on ultrabasic soils, but the majority do enjoy neutral or acidic pH. If you are using a media with no peat moss or sphagnum moss in it, the pH should be fairly close to pH 7.0 (presuming the water used is also neutral). I disagree that this Nep doesn't enjoy direct sun, just introduce it slowly. Most Neps will take full sunlight, if introduced slowly, and if the humidity level is kept high enough (at least 60%). You'll get tougher leaves, and beautifully coloured pitchers. While typical potting soil is too high in nutrients, with this hybrid being so robust, it can probably take it. In my opinion though, you may want to repot it. > >Anyway, the pitchers on them are wonderful- each about 7" tall! > >Cheers, >Paul > A very nice, easy plant. A good Nep to start with! Regards, Chris --------------------------------- http://www.geocities.com/cteichreb (Coastal Carnivores) http://www.nurserysite.com/clubs/pnwcarnivorous (Pacific Northwest Carnivorous Plant Club) ################### From: Owen Priddle Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 22:18:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: David Gray Sorry to use the list like this -- I need to contact David Gray but I can't find his e-mail address -- if he or anyone who has his address would contact me privately I'd appreciate it. Thanks. -Owen ################### From: "RICHARD DAVION" Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 16:23:00 +1030 Subject: SLIGHT / OVERSIGHT Dear All By rushing to catch-up and finish the last issue of Fen, due to a recent medical condition, I inadvertently left out Adao Pereira's Email address out. For all those who wish to thank him for his most interesting article on the cultivation of Genilisea hispidula his Email address is as follows: Adao Pereira Sorry for any inconvenience, DAVION |C4, C5, A4, E4, C#4!, C4, Eb4, Ab4, Enat.4, C#4, C#4| ################### From: strega@split.it (Tassara) Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 09:48:58 +0100 Subject: Strange Drosera disease Dear list, I've recently noted on some sundew leaves a strange illness: in a few days all the tentacles of all the leaves (young and old) of some plants curl completely towards the center of the leaf, not in the normal way, but forming a semi-circle. This happened on D. peltata, D. cistiflora, D. glabripes, D. stolonifera, D. menziesii and D. callistos. The leaves didn't catch any prey and I didn't spray anything over them. I've examined them under a microscope because I suspected small parasites could be involved, but I found none. The curled tentacles are rether deformed and their tip lacks mucilage. The plants, apart from the tentacles, look healthy. Does anybody know what could it be? Thank you! Filippo Tassara Genoa, Italy ################### From: Bryan and Leslie Lorber Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 11:35:26 -0500 Subject: Going to Florida Hi: My family and I are heading to Boca Raton, Florida late next week. Are there any sites in that area where we can see CPs in the wild? Thanks for your help. Bryan Charlotte, Vermont U.S.A. ################### From: Paul Temple Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 20:16:59 +0000 Subject: Re: wild collected cultivars or new taxa In case anyone was following this discussion, I sent my (final?) comment to Jan privately. Not that it was controversial, I just got the feeling the exchange might be on the verge of testing the patience of others and it seems that only Jan and I were participating. Cheers Paul ################### From: JWi5770869@aol.com Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 15:34:20 EST Subject: Nep. Coccinea Paul and All, > The only thing that bothers me is that it's growing in what looks like typical potting soil (black with white miniature spheres). This can't be good for a nepenthes, can it??? The 'white miniature spheres' are probably perlite (or the yank equivalent) suposedly inert and harmless.Its used to open up peat like mixtures and is probably helping to make the compost free-draining.I use this in virtually all of my potting compostand all of my plants are fine. Dont worry about your Nep. John Wilden Southport Lancs. UK ################### From: Paul McCullough Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 19:08:18 -0500 Subject: Philadelphia Flower Show For anyone interested, I've made the photos I took at the Philly Flower show available at the following URL: http://members.home.net/paulmcc/pfs.zip These pix were taken with my new Nikon Coolpix 800 digital camera. This camera shoots everything in 1600x1200 mode (or 640x480 VGA) for the best photo clarity. Unfortunately, I had to resize the photos to 640x480 and compress the jpegs to 50% to make the download of the file above small enough to be easy on slow connections. At any rate, the file contains about 37 of the best photos of the batch- I've touched some up slightly to make up for the losses to compression. Let me know what you think... Cheers, Paul ps- no there aren't any good CP photos here- the two exhibits that had CP were poorly lit. Sorry. -- My New Webpage URLs: -------------------- 3D Animation World: http://members.home.net/paulmcc Carnivorous Plant Page: http://members.home.net/paulmcc/carniv.htm Movie Reviews: http://members.home.net/paulmcc/movies.htm ################### From: "Stefan Ploszak" Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 20:00:23 PST Subject: Re: airlayering of H. tatei >I had finally decided to decapitate the plant and removed the saran wrap >from >the stem and believe it or not--there are these monster roots popping out >of >the stem way above where the air layer cut is. Suprised me!! Congratulations, you're definately a pioneer. Have you thought of publishing it in the CPN? I think your technique is worth preserving on paper. Stefan Ploszak ################### From: Stephen Davis Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 23:19:26 -0800 Subject: Re: wild collected cultivars or new taxa > Please add me into any discussion on this topic you might be having in the background, if it's OK with you. I know this may cause some flames, but I love these discussions, even though I'm not expert enough to add anything useful, I keep learning, and who knows, someday I may have an insight that will be interesting to someone. I find it frustrating that people are afraid to post to this list. I've found out that a lot of answers are sent directly to the person asking the question, instead of the list. I've even followed up with some people that had particularly good questions and found there were some great responses that didn't get to everybody. It's a shame. But thank you to those that forwarded some of the responses to me. Forever the Maverick, always in trouble, and forever annoying, but one very happy sponge, Stephen Davis San Jose, CA USA USDA Zone 8-9 Sunset Zone 15 http://members.aol.com/stephend7 (Site still under construction) >In case anyone was following this discussion, I sent my (final?) comment >to Jan privately. Not that it was controversial, I just got the feeling >the exchange might be on the verge of testing the patience of others and >it seems that only Jan and I were participating. > >Cheers > >Paul ################### From: Dave Meyer Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 08:47:17 -0500 Subject: Re: wild collected cultivars or new taxa Hello All, I would like to second Stephen Davis' comment about replying back to the list with replies. I have been following many threads to just find the ending abruptly and I do not always have time to do as Steve does and contact the parties involved in the discussion to see what happened. Thanks Dave ################### From: "It's me again!!! (T. Kowalski)" Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 15:02:17 +0100 Subject: Question Hello guys, I have one simple question. On the issue of newsletter (December) from ICPS. There was a picture on the backpage of Joe Leno, one kid and a quite big Nepenthes. I would like to know what specie of Nepenthes it was. If you could help me please send your answer under kowal@starogard.com Thank you in advance kowal [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "It's me again!!! (T. Kowalski)" Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 14:58:39 +0100 Subject: Can Nepenthes hybr. be kept in HYDROGEL? I hope you all know what a hydrogel is. If not it is some kind of jelly that absorb water and keep it for very long. I would like to know if I can keep Nepenthes in it because it would look very attractive. Thanks for any suggestions kowal PS. My email kowal@starogard.com [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: Sunpitcher@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 09:52:51 EST Subject: (no subject) <> Thanks and good idea Stefen. I'll try to get some photographs. Angie Nichols, SC, USA ################### From: "Trent Meeks" Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 08:40:11 PST Subject: Re: trip to Boca Raton Florida >Hi: >My family and I are heading to Boca Raton, Florida late next week. Are >there any sites in that area where we can see CPs in the wild? >Thanks for your help. >Bryan >Charlotte, Vermont >U.S.A. Hi Bryan and Leslie, Boca Raton is a quick hop up I-95 from me, and as far as I know, my patio lathe house has the largest stand of CP in the area! If you're lucky, there may be some Utrics growing in the canals out west of Highway 441, if they haven't been herbicided. Boca Raton is, for the most part, walled in communities so carefully landscaped it will make you nauseous. Also, the "soil" is sugar sand, limestone, and dried up bits of sandspur. I guess I am jokingly saying that it is not an environment friendly to CP. Don't waste your time looking for wild CP, take the 1.5 hour drive down to Clyde Bramblett's place, Orgel's Orchids, and see some real CP's. Give him a call ahead of time because he lives in the boonies, and if he steps out you'll miss him. Until later, Trent Meeks Pompano Beach, Fl ################### From: Bryan and Leslie Lorber Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 12:10:31 -0500 Subject: Re: trip to Boca Raton Florida Hi Trent: Thanks for the info. My folks love Florida but for me it's a necessary trip to see mom and dad and for the kids to see their grandparents. I find Boca to be sterile and manicured to within an inch of it's misguided existence. Having made my life in rural Vermont you can imagine how I feel in a place like Boca. We thought of heading "out west" and maybe down to Shark River. My kids are 3 and 4 so I'm some what limited but I really appreciate you time and effort in responding to my question. Best regards, Bryan Trent Meeks wrote: > >Hi: > >My family and I are heading to Boca Raton, Florida late next week. Are > >there any sites in that area where we can see CPs in the wild? > >Thanks for your help. > >Bryan > >Charlotte, Vermont > >U.S.A. > > Hi Bryan and Leslie, > > Boca Raton is a quick hop up I-95 from me, and as far as I know, my patio > lathe house has the largest stand of CP in the area! > > If you're lucky, there may be some Utrics growing in the canals out west > of Highway 441, if they haven't been herbicided. Boca Raton is, for the most > part, walled in communities so carefully landscaped it will make you > nauseous. Also, the "soil" is sugar sand, limestone, and dried up bits of > sandspur. I guess I am jokingly saying that it is not an environment > friendly to CP. > > Don't waste your time looking for wild CP, take the 1.5 hour drive down to > Clyde Bramblett's place, Orgel's Orchids, and see some real CP's. Give him a > call ahead of time because he lives in the boonies, and if he steps out > you'll miss him. > > Until later, > > Trent Meeks > Pompano Beach, Fl ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 10:05:59 -0800 Subject: Re: Question Hi Kowal, >Hello guys, > >I have one simple question. On the issue of newsletter (December) >from ICPS. There was a picture on the backpage of Joe Leno, one kid >and a quite big Nepenthes. I would like to know what specie of >Nepenthes it was. If you could help me please send your answer >under > >kowal@starogard.com > >Thank you in advance > >kowal > It's _Jay_ Leno :-)! The Nepenthes pictures on the back is Nepenthes bicalcarata. Happy growing, Chris ################### From: "John Green" Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 13:39:53 -0700 Subject: Silica sand I remember a short while ago someone was having a hard time finding silica sand. FWIW, yesterday I bought a bag at a home improvement store called Sutherland's. I think it was called "Unamin Industrial Quartz" and only came in 100 lb bags for $4.69. I believe they sell it for people doing sandblasting, and it has the requisite health warnings on it. Hope it helps... John Green Salt Lake City, Utah, USA ################### From: "Joe Harden" Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 10:25:52 -0500 Subject: CP-Hunting in Texas, USA Hello all! I tried to go CP-hunting in Texas last year, but my vacation time was used to stay at my Mother-in-Law's house after Thyroid surgery. Well, now it looks like I'm getting my 2nd chance this year, and with a vengance! My wife is going to Poland with my daughter to have her meet the family for 1-2 months, starting in May. That gives me 2 months to get some ideas where in Texas to find Carnivorous Plants, and two more months to actually exploring. I'm shopping around for a new lens for the camera, and stocking up on film in hopes I get lucky. I know a few people gave me some advice last year, but I lost all my e-mails from then and December. If Anyone has any information on whereabouts for Carnivorous Plants in Texas, please contact me. If all goes well, I'll have a nice article to submit to the ICPS newsletter. Otherwise, I guess I'll spend a month or two fishing. Thanks in advance. Joe Harden [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: John Brittnacher Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 10:17:30 -0800 Subject: RE: Strange Drosera disease I have seen this too and even did a web page on it. The page is under Pests at http://www-epm.ucdavis.edu/~britt/CPs.htm. However I don't know what causes the problem. If it is mites I can't find them or evidence of "bites" either. If it is a fungus all I find is a filamentary fungus. The last time I saw it before a few weeks ago was last spring. Last year I thought I could figure out what it was from what keeps it from spreading. Orthene (insecticide), Kelthane (miticide and general nuker), Captan (fungicide), and a systemic fungicide that is supposedly a replacement for benomyl aren't effective. The only thing I know of that helps is sulfur. I use sulfur to treat it but don't know if it would actually go away by itself. That sulfur helps isn't much of a hint. Nothing will reverse the damage. I am beginning to think it is a fungus that spreads during the winter when things are cool and only shows an effect when it warms up in the spring. If I see a general outbreak this year with enough plants to do a proper experiment I will ask our pest person to try some of the more exotic systemic fungicides that normal humans can't buy here. >I've recently noted on some sundew leaves a strange illness: in a few days >all the tentacles of all the leaves (young and old) of some plants curl >completely towards the center of the leaf, not in the normal way, but >forming a semi-circle. >This happened on D. peltata, D. cistiflora, D. glabripes, D. stolonifera, D. >menziesii and D. callistos. >The leaves didn't catch any prey and I didn't spray anything over them. >I've examined them under a microscope because I suspected small parasites >could be involved, but I found none. >The curled tentacles are rether deformed and their tip lacks mucilage. >The plants, apart from the tentacles, look healthy. John Brittnacher Davis, California, USA ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:08:23 -0500 Subject: CP Website Makeover, Drosera pics &more Hey friends, Got inspired by my digital camera and decided to do a website makeover. Added some new photos of some of my CP. If anyone wants to see, go to: http://www.geocities.com/sundewmatt/index.html Also check out the growlist as it contains links to a few more pics. Happy growing! Matt ################### From: Hkjy15@aol.com Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 19:09:32 EST Subject: Ibecella lutea, Genlisea Hi Did anyone know where to get Ibecella lutea(devil's claw) or Genlisea? Thanks. Sincerely, Jeff ################### From: Hkjy15@aol.com Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 19:10:41 EST Subject: Did anyone have? Hi Did anyone have Triphyophyllua Peltatua, Roridula, Ibicella Lutea(Devil's Claw), Genlisea,Brocchinia ,Reducta, Catopsis beteroniana? ################### From: David Falk Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 18:06:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Did anyone have? On Wed, 8 Mar 2000 Hkjy15@aol.com wrote: > Hi > > Did anyone have Triphyophyllua Peltatua, Roridula, Ibicella Lutea(Devil's > Claw), Genlisea,Brocchinia ,Reducta, Catopsis beteroniana? > Triphyophyllum Peltatum? Gee, I'd like to see someone grow that one. Got a tanker of distilled water on consignment, eh? Hee hee. Dave. -- David Falk Sparrow Arts URL http://www.SparrowArts.com (dave@sparrowarts.com) Home Page URL http://www.SparrowArts.com/~dave Sparrow Arts Gallery of Jewelry and Fine Arts. Featuring original paintings, jewelry, ceramics, sculpture, and carvings. ################### From: "norman francis" Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 02:31:39 +0200 Subject: Re Nep Coccinia Those little white balls are plastic,looks like hard polystyrene (uneducated guess); perlite is brownish in color and looks like a miniature loaf of sliced brown bread that has fallen out of the wrapper and it crumbles easily when you rub it with your fingers Sent by Medscape Mail: FREE Portable E-mail for Professionals on the Move http://www.medscape.com ################### From: "Richard Jobson" Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 18:39:39 +1000 Subject: water? Hi Dave, Tanker of distilled water? I don't get it, please fill me in. Thanks, Rich. ################### From: "David P Banks" Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 22:02:25 +1100 Subject: Nepenthes - Males vs Females Nepenthes % of males to females I am primarily an orchid grower, even though I have a collection of about 500 Nepenthes plants. I grow mostly highland species and hybrids, which grow in my shadehouse year-round in western Sydney, NSW, Australia. I have grown orchids for almost 30 years and have grown Nepenthes for close to 20. Steve Clemesha was the first one to really get involved with the tropical pitcher plants. I have been lurking on this Digest for quite a time now. I would like to know if there have been any studies regarding the sexing of Nepenthes seedlings. What percentage (or ratio) of males to females bloom out of a batch of seedlings. Does this also vary between species? If my memory is correct, Charles Clarke, in his superb tome "Nepenthes of Borneo", mentions that about 30% of seedlings flower to be female. Does this sound right. I would be interested on information on this, either privately or through the Digest. ******************************************** David P. Banks Hills District Orchids Editor "Australian Orchid Review" & "The Orchadian". Author "Tropical Orchids of Southeast Asia" ################### From: "Carl Strohmenger (HSC)" Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 06:09:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Re components in Nep Coccinia media Did I miss something? I thought Perlite was the white material and Vermiculite was the brown crumbly stuff. - Carl On Wed, 8 Mar 2000, norman francis wrote: > Those little white balls are plastic,looks like hard > polystyrene (uneducated guess); perlite is brownish in color > and looks like a miniature loaf of sliced brown bread > that has fallen out of the wrapper and it crumbles easily > when you rub it with your fingers > > Sent by Medscape Mail: FREE Portable E-mail for Professionals on the Move > http://www.medscape.com > ################### From: Marco Montecavallo Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:20:06 +0100 (MET) Subject: Italy Hi everybody, I'm working in Italy for half a year from now, at Florence to be exact. Has anybody any CP-related suggestions for me what to see here? Poi rispodermi privatamente in Italiano se vuoi: Marcus.Rossberg@phil-fak.uni-duesseldorf.de Greetings and happy growing, Marcus -- Sent through GMX FreeMail - http://www.gmx.net ################### From: "Joseph" Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 06:09:03 -0700 Subject: Vermiculite vs Perlite Uhm, Norman, it sounds like you have vermiculite and perlite confused. Perlite are semi-hard, white-beige, though can usually be crushed to powder by squeezing between your fingers. Vermiculite are the "miniature loaf-of-sliced-brown-bread" that you describe as perlite. They are pieces of the mineral mica that have been expanded by high heat. droseraman@tropical-mesa.com Tucson, Arizona U S A Adjacent to the Saguaro National Park ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 08:46:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: CP in Texas >I know a few people gave me some advice last year, but I lost all my >e-mails from then and December. If Anyone has any information on >whereabouts for Carnivorous Plants in Texas, please contact me. If >all goes well, I'll have a nice article to submit to the ICPS >newsletter. Otherwise, I guess I'll spend a month or two fishing. Hey Joe, You'll want to visit far eastern Texas, north of Beaumont. Big Thicket National Park, Angelina Reservoir area. Places like that. If you can't find information on the web or elsewhere, give me a buzz and I can look in my files for more details. I will, of course, make you swear upon the the souls of your wife and daughter that you won't field collect. :) Cheers Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: "Joseph Kinyon" Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 09:32:29 -0800 Subject: perlite Norman, You wrote: "Those little white balls are plastic,looks like hard polystyrene (uneducated guess); perlite is brownish in color and looks like a miniature loaf of sliced brown bread that has fallen out of the wrapper and it crumbles easily when you rub it with your fingers" Perlite is, a form of it, manufactured in a shape,size and color that looks identical to polystyrene bean bag filler. (People have used bean bag filler too, which adds to the confusion!) It is exceptionally clean and easy to use, and the round shape lends itself to good drainage and good compaction. Scott's sells nice-ziplocked-over-priced-hermetically-sealed-consumer-impulse-size-quaniti ties at many garden centers. It crumbles in your pinched fingers with the consistency of stale cocoa-crispy cereal. Vermiculite, another material for drainage, is brown and pages like a miniature book in its processed form. It has a similar structure to mica, forming layers of mineral. When heated it often puffs like a teeny concertina/accordian. The source of your vermiculite is important to consider, as some quarry sites have minerals that are "bad" for CP's. It is similar to the breadlike consistency you described for perlite. It does the same job as perlite in your soil structure. I also use it to enhance and lighten the throwing properties of some clay bodies (stoneware for example) when turning pottery on a wheel. A pottery supply might be a good source for this material if you have trouble finding it. Joseph Kinyon Marin Headlands ################### From: "Malouf, Perry" Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 13:07:11 -0500 Subject: perlite.... Hello Joseph, >.... perlite .....crumbles in your pinched fingers with the > consistency of stale cocoa-crispy cereal. > > Joseph Kinyon > Marin Headlands Egads! Cocoa Crispy cereal has made it to the Marin Headlands? What does your posting say about your diet, Joseph? :-) Regards, Perry Malouf, Ph. D. (Washington, DC suburbs, where Cocoa Crispies are heavily advertised.) ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:29:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: March issue of CPN Greetings folks! I just got my March issue of Carnivorous Plant Newsletter. It is good to see the ICPS survived Y2K, blah blah blah! This is a marvelous issue, I think. We have some real surprises in store for you, including... ---An editorial with a very provocative title ---A few colchicine reports, so you can learn about Ivan Snyder's strange carnivorous plant laboratory! ---Notes on Pinguicula hirtiflora ---A set of new Sarracenia, Pinguicula, and Utricularia cultivars. I am responsible for some of them, so get ready for weird names. We have finally (FINALLY) established cultivar names for a few of the old favorite Venus Flytrap clones. ---Literature reviews are given. Learn about how carnivorous spiders may become vegetarians while living in flowers of carnivorous plants! ---News and Views ---Book Review ---CPN 25 Years ago, Instructions to Authors ---The Savage Garden: Chilly Nights ---Seedbank listing ---Advertisements, including a new insert (black and white this time) from Andreas Wistuba. GOOD STUFF! You should be getting yours within a week---international members may have to wait an extra week or so. Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: JWi5770869@aol.com Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 17:59:38 EST Subject: Nep Coccinea >Those little white balls are plastic,looks like hard polystyrene (uneducated guess); perlite is brownish in color and looks like a miniature loaf of sliced brown bread that has fallen out of the wrapper and it crumbles easily when you rub it with your fingers Weird! In this country the perlite is round and white and crumbles fairly easily Vemiculite is brown and shiny and looks square are you sure you're not getting the two confused? Its not a big deal thing but at least if we get this sorted out then at least the list will know that you say 'perlite' you mean something different to what I mean as perlite. John Wilden Southport Lancs. UK ################### From: Paul McCullough Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 23:00:10 -0500 Subject: Nepenthes Coccinea Thanks for all the messages of support! This group is great! So far the nep coccinea seems okay- I'm misting it every day with distilled water (to make up for the lack of real humidity) and watering every other day. It's got good drainage. This is - by far - the biggest CP I've ever grown! It sits right outside my Klimagro greenhouse - it's about half as big as the KG!- and in a window that gets NW sunlight. The grower told me not to put it in real direct sunlight- I wanted it to be in our dining room which faces SE but he thought that would be too much light. Others have said that that's not a real problem and frankly, most CP like light more then heat anyway. My two nep madagascarensis in the KG are also doing great- it's been a year since I bought the two miniature plants- they now dwarf all but the Sarr Purps- and they're giving them a run for their money. My sarr purps are waking up from winter slumber, as are my VFTs. I love this time of year when CP yawn and stretch and then get to work. I'll probably post pix of the new neps and update the Klimagro jungle pix on my website by the end of March/ beginning of April. Cheers, Paul -- My New Webpage URLs: -------------------- 3D Animation World: http://members.home.net/paulmcc Carnivorous Plant Page: http://members.home.net/paulmcc/carniv.htm Movie Reviews: http://members.home.net/paulmcc/movies.htm ################### From: Hkjy15@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 01:17:00 EST Subject: Re: Triphyophyllua Peltatua I know it's almost impossible to find Triphyophyllua Peltatua, but there's some source in Europe that sell it although it's endangered species in some country. Just curious if someone has it. ################### From: "Joseph Kinyon" Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 10:42:07 -0800 Subject: perlite and Perry Perry, You wrote: "Egads! Cocoa Crispy cereal has made it to the Marin Headlands? What does your posting say about your diet, Joseph? :-) Regards, Perry Malouf, Ph. D. (Washington, DC suburbs, where Cocoa Crispies are heavily advertised.)" LMAO, hee hee For the record, What it *does* say about my diet is that over the years, as my palate has matured, I no longer eat them stale! (just crush 'em in my fingers) But, I was thinkin' put that perlite in a bowl with a little milk, and I might replace breakfast and brushing my teeth with one task. Cocoa-vermiculite, hmmm......? Joseph Kinyon Education x7450 jkinyon@calacademy.org ################### From: Michael Gallagher Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 10:26:03 -0800 Subject: Drosera help Hi All, I wonder if I could get some definitive information about Drosera. While tramping around South Africa last year in search of Disas in the wild, I was struck by the fact that wherever I found Disas, I also found Drosera. Upon returning to the States, I introduced some Drosera to my Disa house and have been overhead watering and misting them along with the Disas and they seem to like it quite well except that hey have a hard time digesting all the fungus gnats present. Obviously I need more Drosera. But I digress. What I a looking for is a great book on Drosera. I have "The Savage Garden" and have sent for Allen Lowrie's volume 3 but seem to be unable to find anything else available. If anyone out there could steer me in the right direction, I would appreciate it. Cheers, Michael Gallagher email: Disaguy@pacbell.net or Mike@disas.com web site: www.disas.com ################### From: "Paul Edwards" Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 08:35:08 +1100 Subject: Sphagnum Hi all, Two questions: 1 What's the best way to grow Sphagnum? 2 What's the best medium for growing Neps? Some say 1 part peat, 1 part orchid mix, and some say pure sphagnum. --------------------------------------------- Paul Edwards, Bampton Park, Neerim South, Victoria. Australia. edwards@net2000.com.au www.sympac.com.au/~bampton --------------------------------------------- ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 14:54:56 -0800 Subject: Re: Sphagnum Hi Paul, >Hi all, > >Two questions: >1 What's the best way to grow Sphagnum? Cool, humid, relatively bright conditions. I'll often grow extra in an empty aquarium covered almost completely over with glass. Place under lights in a coolish room, keep moist (doesn't need to be soaking wet), and it will grow like a weed. Doesn't even need any medium to grow on. Great stuff! >2 What's the best medium for growing Neps? Some say 1 part peat, 1 part >orchid mix, and some say pure sphagnum. > All depends on the species, positioning of the sun, your horoscope reading ;-)! In all seriousness, there are dozens of different mixes people use with success. Try one or two, and decide what works best for you. In my case, I use a mix of equal parts orchid bark, perlite, sand, sphagnum, and a handful of peat moss thrown in. I then grow some live sphagnum on top as an indicator of dryness, general health, and because it looks nice. Most of my larger neps also have various 'weeds' growing in them (cape sundews, U.calcyfida, etc.), which gives them a nice finished look. Hope that helps! Happy growing, Chris -- http://www.geocities.com/cteichreb (Coastal Carnivores, my homepage) http://www.nurserysite.com/clubs/pnwcarnivorous (Pacific Northwest Carnivorous Plant Club) ################### From: JMLAVRICH@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 20:55:12 EST Subject: Mosquito Attack! Hi All, Could someone offer advice to rid my mosquito infestation? This originated in stagnant water in trays that grew algae. They look as if they are feeding on my Nepenthes (not sitting in the water but above it for humidity). I'll be cleaning out the trays and stay on top of this, but I need help in getting rid of this mess. Will they harm the plants either through sucking or larvae attacking roots? They certainly like eating me! Thanks for any advice. Joe Lavrich Philadelphia, PA-US ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 20:19:12 -0800 Subject: Re: Mosquito Attack! Hi Joe, >Hi All, >Could someone offer advice to rid my mosquito infestation? This originated >in stagnant water in trays that grew algae. They look as if they are feeding >on my Nepenthes (not sitting in the water but above it for humidity). I'll >be cleaning out the trays and stay on top of this, but I need help in getting >rid of this mess. Will they harm the plants either through sucking or larvae >attacking roots? They certainly like eating me! > >Thanks for any advice. > >Joe Lavrich >Philadelphia, PA-US I don't think the mosquitoes will cause any harm to the plant. The larvae are filter feeders, and the adult females, well, you already know what they prefer to eat. One way is to empty out the trays of all water, although even then the skeeters will probably still breed in any moist area they can find. Another solution is to put in some large aquatic utrics. Yet another solution (if the water is deep enough) is to put in a few hungry guppies or goldfish. However, if you've emptied out the trays, they probably won't come back (at least not in large numbers!). Chris -- http://www.geocities.com/cteichreb (Coastal Carnivores, my homepage) http://www.nurserysite.com/clubs/pnwcarnivorous (Pacific Northwest Carnivorous Plant Club) ################### From: Steve Hinkson Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 00:00:57 -0800 Subject: Mosquitos I noticed a minor myth on the list. Mosquitos drink the sap of plants just like aphids. The females only need blood for egg production, so yes, they can damage Nepenthes. Steve -- "You can easily judge the character of a person by how he treats those who can do nothing for him or to him." Malcolm Forbes Drop by and see me at : http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/6811 ################### From: bruce dudley Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 07:05:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: slugs Hi Growers I need to learn how to keep slugs out of my Sarracenia pots. They really do some damage to tender roots and mess the dirt up with their slime. I have checked the pots now that the weather has warmed into the upper 70's to mid 80's, and there aren't any yet. I cleaned them out last fall. Now, how do I keep them out? I'm also thinking that I will have some eggs hatch. Thanks! Bruce ################### From: Bryan and Leslie Lorber Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 10:13:45 -0500 Subject: Re: slugs We use shallow dishes of beer in our vegetable garden. In the morning the dishes are full of dead, but happy, slugs. Bryan Charlotte, Vermont bruce dudley wrote: > Hi Growers > > I need to learn how to keep slugs out of my Sarracenia > pots. They really do some damage to tender roots and > mess the dirt up with their slime. I have checked the > pots now that the weather has warmed into the upper > 70's to mid 80's, and there aren't any yet. I cleaned > them out last fall. Now, how do I keep them out? I'm > also thinking that I will have some eggs hatch. > > Thanks! > Bruce ################### From: "Fred C. Heller" Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 18:20:52 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: slugs I have set a couple pots with the rim on an even level with the ground, I pour beer inside, I only need empty the jar every two-three days, when it's full of drowned slugs :)) I also have a problem with birds pecking my Sarracenias to pieces in the boggarden, I've recently set up a net to protects my plants, does anyone have any other solution ? Fred At 07:46 11/03/2000 -0800, you wrote: >We use shallow dishes of beer in our vegetable garden. In the morning >the dishes are full of dead, but happy, slugs. >Bryan >Charlotte, Vermont > >bruce dudley wrote: > >> Hi Growers >> >> I need to learn how to keep slugs out of my Sarracenia >> pots. They really do some damage to tender roots and >> mess the dirt up with their slime. I have checked the >> pots now that the weather has warmed into the upper >> 70's to mid 80's, and there aren't any yet. I cleaned >> them out last fall. Now, how do I keep them out? I'm >> also thinking that I will have some eggs hatch. >> >> Thanks! >> Bruce > > > ################### From: "Michael Hunt" Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 12:21:58 -0500 Subject: Re: slugs I have major problems with slugs in the bog gardens. They devour the growth points of Pings. I have used baits and they work, but it seems that the slugs won't touch these baits if they are not very fresh. The beer works ok, but the best method so far is flooding the bog. Keeping a high water level for 24 hrs or more and the slugs drown. I find them floating so if they are not dead at least I can easily collect them and "off them". This morning I have discovered the slugs have found the emerging Sarracenia blooms. I knew slugs loved them from past experience. I have more blooms on my Sarracenia this year, than in recent memory. So its war now. Take care all, ~Mike St. Petersburg Florida ----- Original Message ----- To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2000 10:14 AM > Hi Growers > > I need to learn how to keep slugs out of my Sarracenia > pots. They really do some damage to tender roots and > mess the dirt up with their slime. I have checked the > pots now that the weather has warmed into the upper > 70's to mid 80's, and there aren't any yet. I cleaned > them out last fall. Now, how do I keep them out? I'm > also thinking that I will have some eggs hatch. > > Thanks! > Bruce ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 09:15:38 -0800 Subject: Re: slugs Hi all, The beer trick works well. Another tip is to place your Sarrs in large, non-draining pots of water. The moat you create will not allow the slugs to cross (without drowning). Feed the dead slugs to your Sarr pitchers. They'll thank-you for it :-)! Chris -- http://www.geocities.com/cteichreb (Coastal Carnivores, my homepage) http://www.nurserysite.com/clubs/pnwcarnivorous (Pacific Northwest Carnivorous Plant Club) >We use shallow dishes of beer in our vegetable garden. In the morning >the dishes are full of dead, but happy, slugs. >Bryan >Charlotte, Vermont > >bruce dudley wrote: > >> Hi Growers >> >> I need to learn how to keep slugs out of my Sarracenia >> pots. They really do some damage to tender roots and >> mess the dirt up with their slime. I have checked the >> pots now that the weather has warmed into the upper >> 70's to mid 80's, and there aren't any yet. I cleaned >> them out last fall. Now, how do I keep them out? I'm >> also thinking that I will have some eggs hatch. >> >> Thanks! >> Bruce ################### From: "norman francis" Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 12:35:02 +0200 Subject: perlite and vermiculite my apologies to the group; My poor typing got the best of me: Vermiculite is the brownish,clay type material, it seems that the vermiculite house insulation produced by W.R.Grace Inc. contains small amounts of asbestos does anyone know if the potting mix stuff is the same thing? Sent by Medscape Mail: FREE Portable E-mail for Professionals on the Move http://www.medscape.com ################### From: Hkjy15@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 12:50:04 EST Subject: Organic Insecsider-beneficial insect kills flea I just find some beneficial insect who will attack certain harmful insect. Include flea, mealbg, white fly, moth......etc http://www4.garden.com/cgi-bin/v2/gedept/PID=68009527965263981518693,19956&d=O RGCbeneficial ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 12:04:17 -0800 Subject: Re: Organic Insecsider-beneficial insect kills flea Hello, There are several beneficial insects/animals that will eat, or somehow lead to the demise of some of our cp pests, such as ladybugs, parasitic wasps, toads, etc. The main problem has always been keeping the beneficial ones from becoming the next meal of the plant (they're not very picky!) Chris -- http://www.geocities.com/cteichreb (Coastal Carnivores, my homepage) http://www.nurserysite.com/clubs/pnwcarnivorous (Pacific Northwest Carnivorous Plant Club) >I just find some beneficial insect who will attack certain harmful >insect. Include flea, mealbg, white fly, moth......etc > >http://www4.garden.com/cgi-bin/v2/gedept/PID=68009527965263981518693,19956&d=O >RGCbeneficial ################### From: "Hideka Kobayashi" Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:10:06 CST Subject: Mosqyito attack! Hi, Joe. I have never tried this, but I would try products based on BT such as Gnatroll. BT (Bacillus thuigiensis), which attacks a wide range of insect larva. I think it has some specificity, and some attack mosquit, some don't. Since it is a non-phytopathogenic bacteria, the application of this stuff 'should' not damage your plants. But like I said, I have never tried this, so there is no guarantee. The same strain of BT attacks mosquito should also kill fungus gnats. There is a nematode attacks fungus gnats as well. You might want to contact the local Extension agent. Hideka ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 12:09:03 -0800 Subject: Re: slugs Hi Fred, Birds can be a pest, often going for the insects in the pitchers. I have extra problems with racoons, so I basically 'cage' my bog with chicken wire. Not the most attractive solution, but it works. The bird netting should work. Also try tying brightly coloured peices of fabric to posts within the bog (works to scare away some birds, others are attracted to it though!). Buy a cat, station it around the bog :-)! The main problem I've always had with birds is stealing sphagnum moss for their nests. Must be easy to build with, as they seem to come from miles around. Chris -- http://www.geocities.com/cteichreb (Coastal Carnivores, my homepage) http://www.nurserysite.com/clubs/pnwcarnivorous (Pacific Northwest Carnivorous Plant Club) >I have set a couple pots with the rim on an even level with the ground, I >pour beer inside, I only need empty the jar every two-three days, when >it's full of drowned slugs :)) > >I also have a problem with birds pecking my Sarracenias to pieces in the >boggarden, I've recently set up a net to protects my plants, does anyone >have any other solution ? > >Fred > >At 07:46 11/03/2000 -0800, you wrote: >>We use shallow dishes of beer in our vegetable garden. In the morning >>the dishes are full of dead, but happy, slugs. >>Bryan >>Charlotte, Vermont >> >>bruce dudley wrote: >> >>> Hi Growers >>> >>> I need to learn how to keep slugs out of my Sarracenia >>> pots. They really do some damage to tender roots and >>> mess the dirt up with their slime. I have checked the >>> pots now that the weather has warmed into the upper >>> 70's to mid 80's, and there aren't any yet. I cleaned >>> them out last fall. Now, how do I keep them out? I'm >>> also thinking that I will have some eggs hatch. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> Bruce >> >> >> ################### From: "Richard Jobson" Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 18:32:38 +1000 Subject: slug grog Hi Slug catchers, Can't imagine any living creature being attracted to Budweiser, better to use QLD XXXX ;-) Rich. ################### From: "Hideka Kobayashi" Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 03:24:01 CST Subject: Slugs, beneficial insects, and etc I read (most of things I know is from books anyway) somewhere that banana peel works as well. I have never tried it, though. It is commonly believed among Japanese orchid growers that slugs hate copper. Quite often you see less slugs with application of copper based fungicides, but I don't think this stuff is good on CPs in general. There are many beneficial insects you can use, but the efficacy is rather quesionable. They tend to escape from the greenhouses, and they die if there is not enough to feed on. Application of pesticide perish them just like other insects. I don't know how IPM is accepted in CP culture, but it is something should be considered. Hideka ################### From: bruce dudley Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 04:04:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: everyone have a beer! Thanks everyone for the simultaneous endorsement of beer! I've tried it before--it works for slugs that are traveling to the pots with a moderate success rate. Maybe, though, I need someone to tell me how often to put it out. I think that I was looking for more radical to keep them out of my Sarr plants, especially with the blooms coming out. I want to see them this year. My roommates left me enough beer to keep me clear for a month. When they moved back to Brazil they thought they were leaving me a gift! Now I have found a way to use it. BTW: how do I kill the egg masses? I hate to tip the pots and mess up the roots in the summer. :-) Bruce ################### From: Dickdove@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 07:40:40 EST Subject: UK Growing I have kept a VFT & sars in my "Cacti house" where 600+ cacti AND the CPs seem to be quite happy. The sars survived the winter & the VFT has been there several years.All the CPs are kept in a tray of water so the humidity appears to be OK.Min winter temp has been 8C and summer CAN rise to 30C+ but I have bags of ventilation. Having said all that can anyone recomment other CPs which would thrive in these conditions and, if in UK where would the best supplier(s) be who could do mail ordrer. Help appreciated. Dick in Berks ################### From: "Fred C. Heller" Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 14:00:51 +0100 (MET) Subject: Radical Slugicide Right, I also noticed that although beer helped in preventing all my Sarrs geting eaten, some slugs got through. so here's what I found in Pietropaolo's book : Pyrethrin or Allethrin : controls slugs, sails and larvae, follow label directions. In Peter d'Amato's bookl : Slug and snails poison : These powder and pellet are effective in keeping these pests under control. Avoid placing them on soils. Water trays and saucers provide good moat to prevent access of these pests. A slug captured by forced\265ps makes avengeful snack for Venus flytraps. Slightly crushed snails will provide ample vitamins for Nepenthes, Yum. There, I copied it all, hope this helps, Fred At 04:14 12/03/2000 -0800, you wrote: >Thanks everyone for the simultaneous endorsement of >beer! I've tried it before--it works for slugs that >are traveling to the pots with a moderate success >rate. Maybe, though, I need someone to tell me how >often to put it out. I think that I was looking for >more radical to keep them out of my Sarr plants, >especially with the blooms coming out. I want to see >them this year. > >My roommates left me enough beer to keep me clear for >a month. When they moved back to Brazil they thought >they were leaving me a gift! Now I have found a way >to use it. > >BTW: how do I kill the egg masses? I hate to tip the >pots and mess up the roots in the summer. > >:-) >Bruce > > > > ################### From: "John Phillip Jr." Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 08:05:59 -0500 Subject: somewhat new member Hello to everyone.... I've been lurking on this list for over 2 years now, and thought this rainy Sunday morning would be a good time for an introduction. I've been growing CP's here in Rhode island, {northeast coast USA} since college days, back in the mid 70's. A long time since the only places to find plants were Peter Pauls, World Insectivorous Plants, Sundew, and a few odd seed catalogs. Finding information was even worse back then. Since those modest days of trying to grow Neps on a windowsill in a dorm, I now have about 120-130 different plant species/varieties, growing under lights inside, and outside in the warm weather. I tend to grow my plants "hard", outside whenever possible. My location a half mile from the coast here gives me a good jump on humidity and mild temps well into the fall. Outside in my raised bog I grow all most of my Sarrs, in pots in the bog~easier to remove for show or to take in in winter. My Neps are also grown outside, in a lathe shaded "cage", where they are watered every day, and thrive from late spring to mid fall. My climate here is well suited for highland Neps, so I tend to grow mainly those, and keep them out even when nighttime temps dip into the upper 30's in late fall (Lost a beautiful N khasiana when I trusted a weather reoprt, but the predicted low of 38 F turned into a low of 25F !) What prompted me to finally post here were the questions about slugs, mosquitos, and other animal "pests" that all outdoor growers seem to have to endure at times. For the mosquitos, I use "Mosquito Dunks" in my Utric pool~ they have never hurt the plants, and do keep the 'skeeters under control. For slugs, I use both the "water Moat" for Sarrs and other CP that need it very wet, and I make sure I change THAT water every week or so, as the mosquito's love those pools as much as any. My biggest "pests" here have always been raccoons, squirrels, and birds, tearing apart plants and uprooting smaller plants, especially Drosera ans Ceph's~ for the longest time I lost Ceph's to birds more than any other cause. Now, I have a raised "cage", 12 ft long, about bench height, that has an enclosure of"Deer Netting" over it. Deer netting is a Medium mesh black poly netting that growers use to keep deer off shrubs, plants or out of yards. It is a black mesh, and tends to become invisible at a distance, yet it is the best thing I have found for keeping all sorts of critters out of the plants. I use the same netting over my raised bog, the netting being supported by 3 poly hoops, as you would see in a plastic covered "hoop house"/greenhouse. Since I have installed these in the last 4 years, my losses from animal pests have been reduced to almost zero, and it has not diminished the fun of growing and showing these plants. I would like to see some time if there would be an interest from any other Northeast/New England area growers of getting together, and forming a local NE chapter of the CP society, as they have in other parts of the country. I know that there are a good number of us out there, and we could all only benefit from the sharing of info that would result. Anyone interested in that might want to e.mail me privately at johnatthebeach@home.com. One last thanks to all those who seem to always be there to give advice, support and help to other growers, there aren't too many things better in this world than helping others, especially when it comes to something like growing plants. thanks, John Phillip, Jr Rhode Island, USA ################### From: "Fred C. Heller" Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 14:05:26 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: UK Growing Try Cambrian Carnivores, Peter Cole's nursery. He gives pretty good advice plus has a ample choice of plants and he's in the uk. http://www.flytrap.demon.co.uk/ happy growing Fred At 04:54 12/03/2000 -0800, you wrote: >I have kept a VFT & sars in my "Cacti house" where 600+ cacti AND the CPs >seem to be quite happy. The sars survived the winter & the VFT has been there >several years.All the CPs are kept in a tray of water so the humidity >appears to be OK.Min winter temp has been 8C and summer CAN rise to 30C+ but >I have bags of ventilation. >Having said all that can anyone recomment other CPs which would thrive in >these conditions and, if in UK where would the best supplier(s) be who could >do mail ordrer. >Help appreciated. >Dick in Berks > > ################### From: "Steven Stewart" Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 08:27:32 -0500 Subject: Slugs We have a predatory snail _Rumina decollata_ or "Delcollate Snail" that has been used as a greenhouse beneficial against slugs and snails. I believe it is a native species in Central Florida, USA. I have read about a similar snail doing great harm to native snails and slug populations in Hawaii, so it is not a good problem solver for everyone everywhere. I have no information about companies who might carry these snails, but if people in the US are interested, I believe most local agricultural extention agents should have more info. on the subject. Take care, Steven Stewart IBW Enteprises Inc. Sanford, Fl, USA ################### From: Cameron & Gyorgyi Sutt Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 07:47:18 -0800 Subject: Bacillus thuigiensis I have used Bacillus thuigiensis in the moats around my cp pots to keep mosquitoes from growing, and it worked wonderfully. I bought "mosquito" dunks from Home Depot. In fact, I just saw a bunch of them at the local Early Mays yesterday. Cameron Sutt Kansas City, Missouri ################### From: "Philip Semanchuk" Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 10:12:48 -0500 Subject: Re: birds (was: Re: slugs) > The main problem I've always had with birds is stealing sphagnum >moss for their nests. Must be easy to build with, as they seem to come >from miles around. Oh man, don't even mention this to me. I keep my CPs under a wire mesh during the winter to keep birds & squirrels from digging in the pots. I took my plants out of their dormancy under wire the last weekend and put them out in the front yard where they get the most sun. It took a bird 2 days to find my big pit with Sarracenia and my lone Drosera in it. Birdy went a-digging and the Drosera disappeared even though I sepnt about 30 minutes combing through the shredded peat and sphagnum left behind. Next day I found that the bird has built a nest in the pot just like it did last year. Sheesh. I don't mind sharing my pot with birds but I wish they'd be neater neighbors. Philip URL du jour: http://www.drbronner.com/main.html ################### From: S.Ippenberger@t-online.de (Ippenberger) Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:52:27 +0100 Subject: Germinating Byblis-species Hi all, I purchased seeds of Byblis aquatica, B. filifolia and B. rorida from Allen Lowrie. Has anybody had success in germinating those species? I have germinated B. gigantea (with GAB3) and B. liniflora (without any special treatment) successfully. Any experiences would be very appreciated. Stefan ################### From: Andrew Bate Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:02:23 +0000 Subject: Re: UK Growing On Sun, 12 Mar 2000 04:54:22 -0800 (PST), Dickdove@aol.com wrote: Dick, >Having said all that can anyone recomment other CPs which would thrive in >these conditions and, if in UK where would the best supplier(s) be who could >do mail ordrer. If you need a list of UK nurseries then take a look at the 'Nurseries' page of CPUK - http://www.cpuk.org.uk/ Regards, Andrew -- andrew@cpuk.org.uk | A UK Specific Guide http://www.cpuk.org.uk | to Carnivorous Plant Resources ################### From: SCN User Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 11:43:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: Laterite Hello, There is a product out there called Duplarit. It is a laterite based additive for aquatic plants produced from a company in Germany. Has anyone used this product in a mix for Nepenthes? Finding there webpage they seem to not have a distributor here in the US. Is there any Dupla already here in the US? I have had excellent results with some other laterite products in growing N. merrilliana and N. rajah's in there soil mix. A peatless mix that does not break down over time and is reusuable when sterilized. This product by Dulpa seemed to offer results simular to what N. merrilliana plants were growing in out in the wild. The info on Duplarit was found at www.dupla.com/. Truly, Tom Kahl/Nepenthes Club ################### From: Hkjy15@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 14:50:40 EST Subject: (no subject) Hi Did anyone ordered from Nature Et Paysages? Can I buy from US? http://www.gascogne.com/natureetpaysages Thanks Jeff __________________________________________________________________ Get paid to surf web at $6.72/hr, $132 if you surf 20hr/month! Check out UtopiAD at http://www.utopiad.com/member/getPaid?refId=379512 ################### From: "Trent Meeks" Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 11:57:00 PST Subject: Re: slugs and other pests >blooms. I knew slugs loved them from past experience. I have more blooms on >my Sarracenia this year, than in recent memory. So its war now. Lots o' flowers this year on my Sarracenias. One rubra gulfensis has about ten flowers opening now! No slugs, but I get snails. Luckily, they have a hard time getting to the Sarracenias because I grow them in trays. >The beer trick works well. Another tip is to place your Sarrs in >large, non-draining pots of water. The moat you create will not allow the >slugs to cross (without drowning). Feed the dead slugs to your Sarr >pitchers. They'll thank-you for it :-)! The snails wreck havoc in the lathe house on the Nepenthes. I've successfully used the beer method, but the beer attracts oppossums. The next morning I'll find the beer dishes completely drained. I also find pots turned over and all the usual signs of oppossum activity. Of course after drinking all the beer, they tend to get a little disorderly. Birds can be a pest, often going for the insects in the pitchers. >I have extra problems with racoons, so I basically 'cage' my bog with >chicken wire. Not the most attractive solution, but it works. I have racoons too, but they seem to be tea toodlers. No beer drinking. I am constantly at war with the critters, and I live in the middle of the city! The only way I've found to get rid of them is to trap them, and transport them to park areas not-so-nearby. until later, Trent Meeks Pompano Beach, Florida ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 13:06:21 -0800 Subject: Re: Laterite Hi Tom, Trying to remember back, but I think Dupla does have a distributor in the U.S., but not under the Dupla name. Essentially, this is iron rich clay that's sold at extremely high costs. From talking with other aquatic plant growers, they've had just as good success with clay purchased from pottery making stores (up in Canada, from the Pottery Barn). However, I haven't used it in Neps (and neither have they) so I'm not completely sure well it would work. If you're interested, let me know and I'll send along an e-mail of a guy who would know how comparable it is, plus possible sources in your area. Chris -- http://www.geocities.com/cteichreb (Coastal Carnivores, my homepage) http://www.nurserysite.com/clubs/pnwcarnivorous (Pacific Northwest Carnivorous Plant Club) >Hello, >There is a product out there called Duplarit. It is a laterite based >additive for aquatic plants produced from a company in Germany. Has >anyone used this product in a mix for Nepenthes? Finding there webpage >they seem to not have a distributor here in the US. Is there any Dupla >already here in the US? >I have had excellent results with some other laterite products in growing >N. merrilliana and N. rajah's in there soil mix. A peatless mix that >does not break down over time and is reusuable when sterilized. >This product by Dulpa seemed to offer results simular to what N. >merrilliana plants were growing in out in the wild. >The info on Duplarit was found at www.dupla.com/. >Truly, >Tom Kahl/Nepenthes Club ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 14:26:40 -0800 Subject: Updated webpage Hi everyone, I've updated my personal webpage with some new pictures (sundews, Genlisea, neps, etc.). Feel free to check it out! Happy growing, Chris -- http://www.geocities.com/cteichreb (Coastal Carnivores, my homepage) http://www.nurserysite.com/clubs/pnwcarnivorous (Pacific Northwest Carnivorous Plant Club) ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 14:28:59 -0800 Subject: Mystery Drosera Hi everyone, Forgot to mention this in my last e-mail. On the main page of my website is a picture of a tuberous sundew in flower sent to me by a friend in Australia. You can't really see the plant itself, but if anyone want to venture a guess on what species it may be, I'd appreciate it. I've provided what info I could along with it. Thanks! Chris -- http://www.geocities.com/cteichreb (Coastal Carnivores, my homepage) http://www.nurserysite.com/clubs/pnwcarnivorous (Pacific Northwest Carnivorous Plant Club) ################### From: "norman francis" Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 18:18:04 +0200 Subject: re: slugs A little stale beer in a margarine containers buried flush with the ground level will catch quite a few slugs Sent by Medscape Mail: FREE Portable E-mail for Professionals on the Move http://www.medscape.com ################### From: Kevin Snively Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 16:02:44 -0800 Subject: Re: Laterite On Sun, 12 Mar 2000, you wrote: > Hello, > There is a product out there called Duplarit. It is a laterite based > additive for aquatic plants produced from a company in Germany. Has > anyone used this product in a mix for Nepenthes? Finding there webpage > they seem to not have a distributor here in the US. Is there any Dupla > already here in the US? > I have had excellent results with some other laterite products in growing > N. merrilliana and N. rajah's in there soil mix. A peatless mix that > does not break down over time and is reusuable when sterilized. > This product by Dulpa seemed to offer results simular to what N. > merrilliana plants were growing in out in the wild. > The info on Duplarit was found at www.dupla.com/. > Truly, > Tom Kahl/Nepenthes Club Much of the soil in SW Washington is Laterite. My guess is that if you went to the local Agg. extention office they should be able to set you up with maps that would lead you to some large deposits. I don't remember just where I was reading about this might have been the road side geology of Washington. I'd heard you had got out of CP a while back. Nice to see the rumor was not true. krs. ################### From: "Richard Ranalli" Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 19:02:43 EST Subject: Does anyone know a good source of mature, healthy Dionea? Hello! Spring is slowly showing her face here in SC, and I'm getting ready for the growing season. I'd like to expand my collection of VFs, but I'm not sure of a good place to get them. If you do know where can I mature, rombust Dionea via mailorder, please contact me. Thanks for your time! ################### From: JMLAVRICH@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 19:33:43 EST Subject: Mosquitos & Philadelphia Flower Show Hi All, Thanks to John Orr who E-mailed me privately and Hideka Kobayashi for the Bacillus thuigiensis advice. I haven't found it yet, but for the benefits of others, John claims to have used it successfully either placed whole in standing water or crumbled and sprinkled around wet areas. Now to move away from mosquitos and slugs. I attended the Philadelphia Flower Show (ended today) and have to concur with Paul McCullough that the bog scene was the usual poorly lit forrest scene. I never new that Sarracenia grew between towering trees in a deep shaded forrest! The grower who does this annual display of woodland plants does a nice job. But maybe we can get him to put a mock bog in the center of the woods, rather than a pond. Clumps of purple pitcher plants surrounded by a carpet of sundews brightly lit would be impressive! Paul mentioned the Nepenthes coccinea that he purchased for US $35--a good price indeed. I don't think Paul mentioned the offerings by a company called Dragon Agro located in New Jersey, US. Maybe this is where Paul purchased his Nepenthes, but I didn't see any of the ones he bought. I did see a VERY LARGE bicalcurata (mature pitchers on a plant 2 feet+ high and wide) and some nice specimens of truncata, ventricosa and a couple of hybrids in six inch pots (these ranged from $75 to $150). They also had what appeared to be tissue culture plugs in cell packs and a variety of orchids. This company advertises on the Internet. Has anyone had any experiences with this company to share? Thanks again to all for the mosquito advice, and happy growing. Joe Lavrich Philadelphia, PA-US ################### From: XAxIoMx@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 20:19:00 EST Subject: Nepenthes problems Hey, I have two questions about some of my lowland neps. Last year I had to move to Las Vegas (which was unfortunately during the summer, 100+ temps:(. I kept my lowlanders in the terrerium they were housed when I was in california, but they practically stopped growing, especially the bicalcarata that I had just bought. Now its been about a year, the bical is the same size after I transplanted it, and put a plastic bag over the top and I keep the terrerium at very high humidity. To make matters worse, the rafflesiana that was doing OK started to get a weird red/brown crust that is making the older leaves die. And I'm starting to see the red crust on a hybid nep too. Also for the last few weeks there have been no pitchers, and the ones that were there died away. If you guys have any ideas, I'd love the help (and so would they:) --Gabe ################### From: Webspur@aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 23:50:16 EST Subject: Getting rid of pesky squirrels I live in an apartment and squirrels are tearing up potted CPs on my front porch! Does anyone have any ideas on keeping them away? I have heard of using moth balls but will they harm plants? I can't trap and kill them due to the neighbor who attracts them into the area by feeding them. ################### From: "Hideka Kobayashi" Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 02:46:53 CST Subject: Die squirrels, die! I have never tried this, but if I remember correctly, there is this bird feed which repels squirrels. Apparently, the feed is mixed with hot pepper or something, and squirrels do not like it. It might not be effective in the beginning, but it 'might' deter them eventually. They might hung around your apartment, though. There are several here as well, and they drive me nuts. Actually, I can hear them right now. I even thought about using rat poison and caster beans, but I'd rather not go that far. Hideka ################### From: Steve Hinkson Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 02:15:00 -0800 Subject: Nepenthes in Las Vegas? Last year I had to move to Las Vegas (snip) put a plastic bag over the top and I keep the terrerium at very high humidity. (snip) the rafflesiana that was doing OK started to get a weird red/brown crust that is making the older leaves die. (snip) Hi Gabe: I too, live and grow Nepenthes in Las Vegas. I don't know what your "Brown Crust" is, but I'd suspect a fungal infection from your description of the growing environment. My Rafflesianas live in hanging pots out in the greenhouse, yes, even in summer when the evaporative cooler is running 'till midnight at 30% humidity, and the leaves and pitchers are fine. Nepenthes like highish humidity, yes, but my experience with them has been that established plants are rangy and disease prone in terrariums because they also like VERY bright conditions that would cook them here in an enclosed environment. I do my cuttings in a heated propigation case, at 100% RH, but my rooted plants are in half sun, and out in the greenhouse with Euphorbs and Cacti (and Orchids, ferns, Bromiliads, flowering plants, etc.!) Try improving the air circulation on your sick plants, Gabe, and raising the light level slowly. Steve -- "You can easily judge the character of a person by how he treats those who can do nothing for him or to him." Malcolm Forbes Drop by and see me at : http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/6811 ################### From: Steve Hinkson Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 02:15:38 -0800 Subject: Nepenthes in Las Vegas? Last year I had to move to Las Vegas (snip) put a plastic bag over the top and I keep the terrarium at very high humidity. (snip) the rafflesiana that was doing OK started to get a weird red/brown crust that is making the older leaves die. (snip) Hi Gabe: I too, live and grow Nepenthes in Las Vegas. I don't know what your "Brown Crust" is, but I'd suspect a fungal infection from your description of the growing environment. My Rafflesianas live in hanging pots out in the greenhouse, yes, even in summer when the evaporative cooler is running 'till midnight at 30% humidity, and the leaves and pitchers are fine. Nepenthes like highish humidity, yes, but my experience with them has been that established plants are rangy and disease prone in terrariums because they also like VERY bright conditions that would cook them here in an enclosed environment. I do my cuttings in a heated propagation case, at 100% RH, but my rooted plants are in half sun, and out in the greenhouse with Euphorbs and Cacti (and Orchids, ferns, Bromeliads, flowering plants, etc.!) Try improving the air circulation on your sick plants, Gabe, and raising the light level slowly. Steve -- "You can easily judge the character of a person by how he treats those who can do nothing for him or to him." Malcolm Forbes Drop by and see me at : http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/6811 ################### From: Edwin Spector Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:32:24 +0000 Subject: Re: Slugs and Beer I used beer traps with some success, much to the amusement of my neighbour. One warning: Empty the traps out every few days. Feed the corpses to birds or to your CPs, but don't leave them to rot in the traps. The stench of decaying slugs is unspeakably vile and powerful. Edwin Bath, UK. ################### From: Phil Wilson Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:27:53 +0000 Subject: Re: Germinating Byblis-species Stefan, > > >I purchased seeds of Byblis aquatica, B. filifolia and B. rorida from >Allen Lowrie. Has anybody had success in germinating those species? I >have germinated B. gigantea (with GAB3) and B. liniflora (without any >special treatment) successfully. Any experiences would be very >appreciated. You should not need to treat these seeds to get germination. To get the best a quickest germination expose to the seed to high temperature and humidity after sowing - i.e. 40C+ at around 100% humidity. I have had germination within five days using this method. One of our members here in the UK germinated the seed by placing it inside here tropical fish aquarium between the top of the tank and the light fitting. If you give the seeds lower temperatures and humidity you will get germination but it will take longer. Regards, Phil Wilson Email: cp@pwilson.demon.co.uk ################### From: "=?iso-8859-1?q?A.J.=20Paton?=" Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:05:12 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Up-to-date CP Index? Hi all, I've been away from the list (and my plants!) for a few months, and would like to catch up on what I've missed. The Index from the listproc only seems to include discussions up to 1997. Is there a more up-to-date list anywhere? (up to the end of 1999 would, presumably, be the most recent compilation of postings I could expect). Cheers, A.J. ____________________________________________________________ Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ################### From: "Susan Farrington" Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 07:13:21 -0600 Subject: Mosquitoes Just one more comment on the mosquito issue... if you don't choose to use BTI mosquito dunks in your stagnant tray water, you need to empty the trays (or allow them to evaporate completely) every five to seven days... some species of mosquitoes can breed VERY quickly! Susan Farrington Missouri Botanical Garden P.O. Box 299 St. Louis MO 63166-0299 susan.farrington@mobot.org (314)577-9402 ################### From: Christer Berglund Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:19:13 +0100 Subject: Feeding terrestrial Utricularias? Hi, I'd be interested to learn about different ways to feed terrestrial Utrics. I've read about flooding the pot and introducing daphnia. Has anyone tried to feed infusoria or are they too small. What about fertilizers; foliar feed or into the soil? Both success stories and info about things to avoid, would be appreciated. Regards, -- Christer Berglund E-mail: christer.berglund@amiga.pp.se ################### From: Christer Berglund Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:19:26 +0100 Subject: Strangely growing drosera Hi, I received some seeds from A. Lowrie almost a year ago. One of them was labelled D. cuneifolia, which I now suspect is natalensis (but that's another story). I had good germination and today the three largest are 5 cm (2 ") across and planted together in a 12 cm pot. Anyway, since a about a month back one plant has started to behave rather strange. It is an rosetted plant so newer leaves are visible in the centre of it. Usually the outer leaves should open up first, but in this plant some leaves in the middle started to develop and has divided the rosette. At this time there are three rosettes on this plants. These are obviously crowded thus are growing in 45 degree angle from the old rosette. Have anyone else seen this before? Regards, -- Christer Berglund E-mail: christer.berglund@amiga.pp.se ################### From: Shirley Saunders Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 09:31:14 -0800 Subject: Snail / slug deterrent Hi I tried the 'beer bath' but obviously I wasn't putting enough baths out since I still had tons of snails out there. I know it's slightly off topic but I managed to keep them out of my palms and citrus by wrapping a 1" wide piece of copper tape around the trunks as a barrier. (I also cut the top of the tape every inch or so and bent it out so it was perpendicular to the trunk and sharp). I understand that snails don't cross this because it forms some chemical reaction and they don't like it. Also there's plenty else for them to eat / hide in. I've found them all over my snow peas, eating the leaves, but at least it keeps them off the plants I don't want them on. Maybe a combination of snail deterrent / attractor would help? Well, the copper tape has been on my trees for a year now, and still they haven't crossed it. I've heard it's important that the copper is shiny not blackened (and oxidised). Mine hasn't darkened yet but it can be brightened up by sandpaper. I would suggest putting the copper tape in a circle around the bog/plant pots will keep them off. It smacks to me of black magic, but if it works... I don't think spraying copper based fungicide will do the trick. Best regards Shirley ################### From: "David J. Collier, MD" Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:26:41 -0800 Subject: Nep pollen needed I have a female N. ventricosa that has just sent up a bloom stalk. Does anyone have any nepenthes pollen they would like to share in exchange for some resulting seed? David Collier dcollier@mail.med.upenn.edu ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 14:44:39 -0800 Subject: Re: Feeding terrestrial Utricularias? Hi Christer, >Hi, > >I'd be interested to learn about different ways to feed terrestrial >Utrics. I've read about flooding the pot and introducing daphnia. Has >anyone tried to feed infusoria or are they too small. What about >fertilizers; foliar feed or into the soil? Both success stories and info >about things to avoid, would be appreciated. > >Regards, > >-- >Christer Berglund >E-mail: christer.berglund@amiga.pp.se Most of my terrestrial Utrics grow quickly enough that I don't bother with trying to culture infusoria, microworms, etc. for them. I have enough a fungus gnat population that I think the larvae are adequately feeding the Utrics. I do flood my terrestrial Utrics, especially some of the shy flowerers, every few months, as it seems to encourage flooding once the water level drops. Never noticed any ill effects from doing this. Good luck! Chris -- http://www.geocities.com/cteichreb ("Coastal Carnivores", my homepage) http://www.nurserysite.com/clubs/pnwcarnivorous (Pacific Northwest Carnivorous Plant Club) ################### From: "Paul Edwards" Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:21:38 +1100 Subject: Genlisea Hi everyone, Can anyone give me some advice on Genlisea? There doesn't seem to be much info available on the different varieties. Is it easy to germinate seeds? What's the best variety to get? I've heard there are annuals, bi-annuals and perennials. I would prefer a perennial. I plan to try to grow one as outlined in "The Savage Garden". It's now Autumn in Aust. I know Spring is the best time to plant seeds, but will they germinate if planted now? (They will be kept in a controlled temperature hot-house) Thanks for your help. ------------------------------------------------------- Paul Edwards, Bampton Park, Neerim South, Victoria. Australia. edwards@net2000.com.au www.sympac.com.au/~bampton ------------------------------------------------------- ################### From: "Patty Petzel" Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 03:39:41 -0800 Subject: Re: Getting rid of pesky squirrels You might try dry, crushed hot peppers scattered around. Birds can't taste the burn but mammals can. Some places sell stuff to mix with bird seeds to chase off squirrels. I've just read on a native plants/animals list that said it worked on coons too. A year or two ago I sprayed an organic bug killer called Hot Pepper Wax (I did not use it on my CPs) on some young cherry trees to keep the deer from eating the leaves. All I can say is that nothing ate the leaves that year. Maybe it would help with coon and squirrels. ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 16:53:52 -0800 Subject: Re: Genlisea Hi Paul, I got my G.violacea from a friend, but apparently the seed wasn't too difficult to germinate. Some species may require application of giberellic acid. The G.violacea so far seems to be a perennial, although it went through a period where most of the leaves yellowed and the plant looked like it was dead. However, within about a month, all the plants came back. I've tried growing G.violacea the way that the G.hispidula plant was grown for the photo in the Savage Garden. The results were less than impressive. The traps only extended about 1cm into the water, so obviously they're not as extensive as some species. G.hispidula is probably the easiest and most commonly grown species. It's fine to plant seed now if they're being kept in a hot-house. Chris -- http://www.geocities.com/cteichreb ("Coastal Carnivores", my homepage) http://www.nurserysite.com/clubs/pnwcarnivorous (Pacific Northwest Carnivorous Plant Club) >Hi everyone, > >Can anyone give me some advice on Genlisea? There doesn't seem to be much >info available on the different varieties. Is it easy to germinate seeds? >What's the best variety to get? I've heard there are annuals, bi-annuals and >perennials. I would prefer a perennial. I plan to try to grow one as >outlined in "The Savage Garden". It's now Autumn in Aust. I know Spring is >the best time to plant seeds, but will they germinate if planted now? (They >will be kept in a controlled temperature hot-house) >Thanks for your help. > > >------------------------------------------------------- > Paul Edwards, > Bampton Park, > Neerim South, Victoria. > Australia. > edwards@net2000.com.au > www.sympac.com.au/~bampton >------------------------------------------------------- ################### From: Bryan and Leslie Lorber Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:00:44 -0500 Subject: U. livida and Nep. Hi All: I have two questions and would really appreciate some advice. Firstly, my U. livida is a tangled mass of old dead flowers and new growth. Is it ok to cut in way back and remove the old tangled mess so as to let new growth come up clean and unencumbered? Secondly, is there a rule of thumb about repotting Nepenthes? Do they like to be pot bound or do there prefer room to grow or does it depend on the species? Thanks for any assistance Bryan Charlotte, Vermont ################### From: "Richard Ranalli" Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:33:08 EST Subject: Help! Someone's been eating my porridge-I mean Sarracenia plants! Hello! Sorry for my unsuccessful attempt at being humorous. Well anyway, about a week ago I noticed that there were large holes in my S. purpurea plants. They aren't snail holes-the small round holes or tunnels. They look like they have been torn or ripped. I consulted a few of my CP books, and a few of them said that some birds may peck at Sarracenia to get to the insects inside. It now seems inevitable that this would happen, considering I have three bird feeders nearby. Do you have any suggestions as to how I can control them? Interestingly enough, they only bothered the S. purpurea-they left the S. minor and flava alone. Thanks for your time! ################### From: "Philip Semanchuk" Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:57:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Getting rid of pesky squirrels >I live in an apartment and squirrels are tearing up potted CPs on my front >porch! Does anyone have any ideas on keeping them away? Black pepper might discourage them a little. I've used it in the past to discourage my cat who went through her own houseplant excavation period. It worked OK, not great, and after repeated applications the soil started to take a long time to absorb water. I've heard that black pepper can be used in your car's radiator to plug pinhole leaks so perhaps it is Nature's Own Stop-Leak. Note that I don't actually recommend pepper in your radiator or sugar in your gas tank for that matter. Putting a wire cage around my plants is the only thing that keeps them perfectly safe from squirrels. Looks ugly but it works. Bruce in Raleigh, tell me what kind of beer your roommates from Brazil left behind and maybe I'll swap you a case of Slug Swill for it. : ) Philip URL du jour: http://www.drbronner.com/main.html ################### From: Oreophila@aol.com Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 22:42:34 EST Subject: Are there any CPer's at Cornell NY My name is William Hoyer, I have been on the list since the 900's Digests. I will be attending Cornell University in New York; I was wondering if there are any CPer's or ICPS members in Ithica, or in the area. I live in N. California so i won't be going till Aug. but a contact, or local CP club would be nice to hear from. Thank you in advance, William Hoyer (Oreophila@aol.com) ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:24:40 -0800 Subject: Re: U. livida and Nep. Hi Bryan, >Hi All: >I have two questions and would really appreciate some advice. >Firstly, my U. livida is a tangled mass of old dead flowers and new >growth. Is it ok to cut in way back and remove the old tangled mess so >as to let new growth come up clean and unencumbered? >Secondly, is there a rule of thumb about repotting Nepenthes? Do they >like to be pot bound or do there prefer room to grow or does it depend >on the species? >Thanks for any assistance >Bryan >Charlotte, Vermont It's fine to remove the dead growth on the U.livida. When pulling out old stolons, make sure you don't remove too much of the new growth. Usually not too much of a problem. As for the Nepenthes, I like to increase pot size as the plant increases, as otherwise it looks out of balance. A bigger pot also allows more basal shoots to come up. I'm not sure if there's any preference in terms of root bound or not, but if you do increase the pot size as the plant size increases, there should be enough room for root growth. Chris -- http://www.geocities.com/cteichreb ("Coastal Carnivores", my homepage) http://www.nurserysite.com/clubs/pnwcarnivorous (Pacific Northwest Carnivorous Plant Club) ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:31:21 -0800 Subject: Re: Help! Someone's been eating my porridge-I mean Sarracenia Hi Richard, >Hello! Sorry for my unsuccessful attempt at being humorous. That's ok, we forgive you this time, just don't do it again ;-)! > Well anyway, >about a week ago I noticed that there were large holes in my S. purpurea >plants. They aren't snail holes-the small round holes or tunnels. They >look like they have been torn or ripped. I consulted a few of my CP books, >and a few of them said that some birds may peck at Sarracenia to get to the >insects inside. It now seems inevitable that this would happen, considering >I have three bird feeders nearby. Do you have any suggestions as to how I >can control them? Interestingly enough, they only bothered the S. >purpurea-they left the S. minor and flava alone. Thanks for your time! Sounds like birds. However, you'll want to make sure that it isn't just old pitchers (which S.purpurea likes to hold on to) which have become brittle and have broken because of regular handling. First thing is to stop feeding the birds, if you can (I admit, I like to feed the local birds too, despite the messes they can make in the bog garden). Besides that, you generally have to resort to physical means such as covering up your plant, moving it to an inaccessible place, etc. Good luck! Chris -- http://www.geocities.com/cteichreb ("Coastal Carnivores", my homepage) http://www.nurserysite.com/clubs/pnwcarnivorous (Pacific Northwest Carnivorous Plant Club) ################### From: "Poh Jonathan" Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 00:54:29 PST Subject: RE:Nepenthes problem Hi, The two most prominent factor that induces nepenthes to pitcher are Light and water. Check whether u provide enough light and water to it. I discovered that plants do better in outdoors then terrium, unless the terrium is heavily lighted. Lots of love Jonathan Poh P.S: N.rafflesina don't grow well with me. Sob! > >Topic No. 23 > >Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 20:19:00 EST >From: XAxIoMx@aol.com >To: Subject: Nepenthes problems >Message-ID: <13.27f73cd.25fd9c04@aol.com> > >Hey, > > I have two questions about some of my lowland neps. Last year I >had >to move to Las Vegas (which was unfortunately during the summer, 100+ >temps:(. I kept my lowlanders in the terrerium they were housed when I was >in california, but they practically stopped growing, especially the >bicalcarata that I had just bought. Now its been about a year, the bical is >the same size after I transplanted it, and put a plastic bag over the top >and >I keep the terrerium at very high humidity. To make matters worse, the >rafflesiana that was doing OK started to get a weird red/brown crust that >is >making the older leaves die. And I'm starting to see the red crust on a >hybid >nep too. >Also for the last few weeks there have been no pitchers, and the ones that >were there died away. >If you guys have any ideas, I'd love the help (and so would they:) > > > ################### From: "Richard Jobson" Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 19:58:48 +1000 Subject: Critters for bladderworts Hi Christer, I have had success with inoculating terrestrial bladderworts (U. uliginosa) with a range of critters including copepods, cladocera, nematodes, mites and others in a study of feeding ecology. To get a concentrated assemblage for the study, I grew the organisms together in 2 L beakers of peat (base) and distilled water. The trick is setting-up a tri-trophic system that includes bacteria, algae and the critters (your submerged pots will be in this state). My plants were submerged under 1-2 cm of water in individual trays (tall takeaway tubs). Some of the critters lived in the water column, others in the substrate. Clever old U. uliginosa produce leaf and stolon traps. After pot/trays were inoculated the critters set-up house and maintained themselves (thinking they were nice and safe HA HA). So to cut a long story short, get a small sample of surface substrate and water (10-20 ml) from a suitable habitat (acid bog or other Utric habitat) and introduce it to your pot system/tray. In my current Utric collection I have many visible crustaceans swimming about. It looks great with U. violacea, who put its large traps, some with trap door facing upwards, on the surface of the sand. Much better fun than sticking bugs in pitcher plants. Best, Rich. ################### From: "Susan Farrington" Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 07:11:58 -0600 Subject: Re: Die, squirrel, die! Hideka, Please DON'T use poison on your squirrels... for one thing, it may well be illegal. For another thing, think about the other animals that may eat the carcass... you will be putting poison into the wildlife food chain. Unless you're able to shoot the buggers, you will need to cage things to protect them. > I even thought about > using rat poison and caster beans, but I'd rather not go that far. > > Hideka Susan Farrington Missouri Botanical Garden P.O. Box 299 St. Louis MO 63166-0299 susan.farrington@mobot.org (314)577-9402 ################### From: "Dave Evans" Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:02:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Nep pollen needed Hello David, I have a hybrid Nepenthes, _N. maxima * N.anamensis_, male. It started sending up a flower about three weeks ago. I think it will take another two weeks for the blooming to commence. The pitchers are very big and brightly colored, the peristome is very similar to N.maxima's. Dave Evans ----- Original Message ----- To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Monday, March 13, 2000 2:34 PM > I have a female N. ventricosa that has just sent up a bloom stalk. Does > anyone have any nepenthes pollen they would like to share in exchange > for some resulting seed? > > David Collier > dcollier@mail.med.upenn.edu > > > ################### From: Bryan and Leslie Lorber Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 03:36:06 -0500 Subject: Re: U. livida and Nep. Thank you very much, Chris! Chris Teichreb wrote: ################### From: "Carl Strohmenger (HSC)" Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:19:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Die, squirrel, die! In many rural areas in the south, squirrel is considered a delicacy and is actively hunted by the populace. FWIW - Carl ################### From: "Joe Harden" Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:37:45 -0600 Subject: Sarracenia 'Mardi Gras' ??? Does anyone have any idea what the Sarracenia hybrid, "Mardi Gras" is? Thanks in advance [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:45:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: Web Ring and Derek Glidden Hey Folks, The Web Ring is a little stalled in terms of getting new people onto the ring, sorry to say. Mostly, it is because Derek Glidden (the web ring guru) has suddenly become incommunicado. The last time I spoke with him, he had come down with a strange and difficult to diagnose illness. I haven't been able to contact him---any Tampa Bay CPers know how he's doing (email me directly if you have information). As soon as Derek gets back on his feet, we'll be able to get things going again. Sorry about the delay! Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:51:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: Genlisea aurea Hey folks, I'm growing Genlisea aurea (started it from seed). I have two small plantlets, and they were growing quite slowly. See photo at: http://www.sarracenia.com/photos2/gaur01.jpg Anyway, a month or so ago I noticed that one of the rosettes was doing quite poorly, and starting to get yellow. Uh oh! So, with great anxiety, I raised the water table so the plant is now growing as an aquatic. The water is about 1 cm above the soil surface. It did wonders! The plants returned to their deep green color, and new plantlets (vegetative volunteers) have started to appear in the pot. Grow this plant as an affixed aquatic, and you'll do quite well! By the way, this is the only Genlisea that I've found so far that requires a "trick". All my others (G. hispidula, repens, violacea, pygmaea, filiformis, and a few unidentified/undescribed spp.) do marvelously treated like terrestrial Utricularia---you know, U. subulata! Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:58:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: Germinating Byblis Hey folks, I've had some experience growing Byblis, and in my experience some *do* require special tricks re: germination. While B. liniflora comes up pretty easily in cultivation without special tricks (possibly a result of selection by cultivation), B. gigantea and the other species of Byblis *do* benefit from a quick fire. I have an article on line about how to do this. The smoke treatments people use may do just as well---I haven't tried them. Byblis article: http://www.sarracenia.com/pubs/byblis.html Cheers Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: "Trent Meeks" Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:36:17 PST Subject: Re: Sarracenia pollination Anyone know how long a Sarracenia stigma remains fertile after the petals drop? Making some hybrids with the nicer clones I've got in flower. Thanks for the input. Until later Trent Meeks ################### From: Brian Quinn Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 09:02:28 +1300 Subject: G.hispidula Hey All, I am looking for a nice line drawing of _Genlisea hispidula_. If anyone can direct me to a reference or has a line drawing scanned that I can look at, I would be most thankful. TIA Brian Quinn Auckland, NZ ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 15:03:32 -0800 Subject: Tuberous Drosera Hi everyone, I've been having some interesting conversations about tuberous Drosera with other cp'ers as a result of my mystery Drosera pic on my website (which looks to be D.whittakeri). My interest has been piqued again in these guys, so I'm hoping to start up a few plants from seed. I'm looking for the easier ones, such as peltata, macrantha, and whittakeri. If anyone has seed for trade or sale, let me know. Thanks! Chris -- http://www.geocities.com/cteichreb ("Coastal Carnivores", my homepage) http://www.nurserysite.com/clubs/pnwcarnivorous (Pacific Northwest Carnivorous Plant Club) ################### From: "Leigh Perkins" Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 23:57:23 -0000 Subject: Seed Trade + S Flava Hi All Hope you can help! I'm on the look out for either some D Slackii or U Sandersonii seeds, if you have some you'd like to trade or sell, mail me direct - thanks!! Also - sorry to pick out threads of old conversations, but something rang a bell with me the other day, and that's like kicking one end of a dinosaur and waiting for the other end to go "ouch" Snip from David Mellard on 29th February >About 4 years ago I sent out a bunch of Sarracenia seed and one of the >locations was in Walton County. Did the seed come from me? If so, you >might have a hybrid. I collected Sarracenia flava (cutthroat) and at the >time may have mixed in some hybrid seed from a clump of hybrid Sarracenia >plants that were nearby or misidentified the seed as S. flava. I think that David and I did a trade a few years back and he was very kind enough to send me some S Rugelli seeds (belated thanks again David!) In the first 2 years of growth, the juvenile leaves that opened displayed a quite distinctive red line in the throat area, giving every indication that these were cutthroats, no great shakes there. But this year, with the first real ascidiform leaves coming through, some differences have shown up. Firstly the size - the first push throughs of the season are now up to the height of a normal 4-5 year old Flava (though much more slender), certainly much higher than any other 3 year old plant I've ever seen. Secondly, the shape and colour - definately ridged halfway up the pitcher with a defined curve to the lid prior to opening, and the presence of a faint blue tint in the lower quarter of it's height. Also, the red line present in the previous years now seems absent, or dormant??!! Snip >I suspect that it's a hybrid with purpurea and then a backcross >a time or two with flava again to make the pitchers more upright and to make >the hood more overhanging. The flowers are a mixture of yellow and red. David - if these are the seeds you were referring to (and assuming I am correct in saying that you sent these to me - I've slept since then and I could be wrong :)), then I would say it's also possible that one of those backcrosses you refer to could well have been a cutthroat judging on attributes so far. I'll be really interested to see how the flowers turn out eventually, but I would hazard that a purpurea cross is certainly possible - that would account for the slight decumbence in the pitchers. Sorry to ramble, thanks for listening Leigh Perkins ################### From: JWi5770869@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 19:16:56 EST Subject: Trapping pesky squirrels In a message dated 13/03/00 08:13:26 GMT Standard Time, cp@opus.hpl.hp.com writes: > I live in an apartment and squirrels are tearing up potted CPs on my front > porch! Does anyone have any ideas on keeping them away? I have heard of > using moth balls but will they harm plants? I can't trap and kill them due > to the neighbor who attracts them into the area by feeding them. > How about trapping and killing the neighbour? (sorry couldn't resist it!!) John Wilden Southport Lancs. UK ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 12:20:54 -0500 Subject: Drosera hamiltonii from leaf cuttings? Anyone know if D.hamiltonii will work from leaf cuttings? Matt ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 12:24:30 -0500 Subject: Pest Strip Ok, I spotted some little black specs in one of my many terraria. They dont appear to be harming any of my Drosera but they're crawling around the center of some of my petiolaris relatives. I'm assuming these tiny black dots are mites. I dont care if theyre harming my plants or not, I want them dead. I'm sure Ive asked this in the past but does anyone know if the chemicals released by pest strip can harm Drosera or other sensitive CP? Anyone recommend a specific brand I might be able to find at Home Depot? Thanks! Matt ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 22:04:35 -0500 Subject: No-Pest Strip by Hot Shot Just bought some No-Pest Strip by Hot Shot, which was the only item of its type at Home Depot. Kills flying and crawiling insects. Though it doesnt specify killing mites, it does say it kills spiders so I think I should be OK. Now that I think about it, I have a feeling the mites might have been introduced when I recently started feeding my plants wingless fruit flies - the person I bought the fly cultures from mentioned having previous mite infestations in cultures in the past. Since I havent seen any damage to the plants in the terrarium, I'm assuming that theyre predator mites - and not interested in my Drosera. Not sure if I'm right here but I figure better to be safe than sorry. Still looking forward to peoples responses to my previous message. Thanks! Matt ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 22:19:54 -0500 Subject: re: Genlisea / Stange Drosera Growth Christer, > Subject: Strangely growing drosera > Message-ID: <38CD231E.C37A3FEF@amiga.pp.se> > > Hi, > > I received some seeds from A. Lowrie almost a year ago. One of them was > labelled D. cuneifolia, which I now suspect is natalensis (but that's > another story). Sadly, this seems to be the case with both seed from Lowrie and seed from all the seed banks around the world. I think some of the mixup occurs cause some people dont care much for Drosera enough to keep an eye on them / know what the different species look like - very sad :( I had good germination and today the three largest are 5 > cm (2 ") across and planted together in a 12 cm pot. a lot better than my luck with lowries seed. my results were so lousy with the batch my friend sent me that, had i paid for what i received, i would have been extremely disappointed. since they were free, i wont complain - ive at least got 1 seedling each of d fulva, broomensis and caduca from the deal. > Anyway, since a about a month back one plant has started to behave > rather strange. It is an rosetted plant so newer leaves are visible in > the centre of it. Usually the outer leaves should open up first, but in > this plant some leaves in the middle started to develop and has divided > the > rosette. At this time there are three rosettes on this plants. These are > obviously crowded thus are growing in 45 degree angle from the old > rosette. Have anyone else seen this before? ive got some d sp chimanimani (a form of natalensis) which were crowded and exhibited strange behavior. probably not the same as what youre experiencing but crowding can do funny things to drosera - usually at least stunts their growth. strangely, the ones i transplanted to dead sphagnum started growing fast and strong immediately while the ones i planted in sand / milled sphag are still just sitting there with little new growth. > Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:21:38 +1100 > From: "Paul Edwards" > To: "CP List" > Subject: Genlisea > Message-ID: <000701bf8d42$fc3edf40$4c1657cb@ibm9068k73> > Paul and Chris, > Hi Paul, > > I got my G.violacea from a friend, but apparently the seed wasn't > too difficult to germinate. Some species may require application of > giberellic acid. The G.violacea so far seems to be a perennial, although > it went through a period where most of the leaves yellowed and the plant > looked like it was dead. However, within about a month, all the plants > came back. Ive got all my violaceas in flower right now. theres a pic on my website if anyone wants to see. i consider violacea one of the easiest cp to grow. http://www.geocities.com/sundewmatt/index.html > > I've tried growing G.violacea the way that the G.hispidula plant > was grown for the photo in the Savage Garden. The results were less than > impressive. The traps only extended about 1cm into the water, so obviously > they're not as extensive as some species. > > G.hispidula is probably the easiest and most commonly grown > species. It's fine to plant seed now if they're being kept in a hot-house. i find violacea a lot easier than hispidula (though i dont have much trouble with this 1 either - it is slower though). i have heard that some genlisea seed needs GA3 treatment. i got very disappointing results with uncinata, filiformis and aurea without using it. Matt ################### From: "Paul Edwards" Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 17:24:49 +1100 Subject: Wanted I would like to purchase a copy of Carnivorous Plants of Australia Volume 1 (Hard Cover) by Allen Lowrie. Anyone with a copy available, please let me know how much. ------------------------------------------------------- Paul Edwards, Bampton Park, Neerim South, Victoria. Australia. edwards@net2000.com.au www.sympac.com.au/~bampton ------------------------------------------------------- ################### From: schlauer@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:41:06 +0000 Subject: Re: Sarracenia 'Mardi Gras' ??? Dear Joe, > Does anyone have any idea what the Sarracenia hybrid, "Mardi Gras" > is? No cultivar has been registered with this name. I do also not know of any description establishing this name. Where do you have the name from? Kind regards Jan (ICPS Registrar) ################### From: Nigel Hurneyman Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 10:20:12 +0000 Subject: Various - I'm too lazy to send separate e-mails Twirling monofilamentous algae from the tank containing my single remaining sickly strand of Aldrovandra, I wondered if the stuff could be recycled. After all, various veggie foods now contain algae and they claim it's good for you. If I dropped the slime into a Sarrie pitcher, would it derive any benefit? I've grabbed a freebie site for my pygmy photos: http://www.fortunecity.co.uk/safaripark/deer/396 There's only a couple there at the moment (including citrina), but I will structure the site properly and upload the rest of my photos eventually. If you visit the site, you'll actually be doing me a favour because I understand Fortune City have a habit of closing down unvisited sites. I'm not trying to compete with the CP database - if there's anything there that might enhance the database, feel free to take it. Does anyone know when the UK CPS AGM is going to be? I hope the first newsletter reaches us before it happens (deadline was 12 February and it takes about a month to publish so it should be imminent). I looked in my schizandra propagation chamber yesterday and found another dozen rooted plantlets, so the meeting will provide a chance to dump some. Good Growing, NigelH ################### From: Phil Wilson Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:51:14 +0000 Subject: Re: Drosera hamiltonii from leaf cuttings? In message <20000315004402.74352.qmail@hotmail.com>, Sundew Sundew writes >Anyone know if D.hamiltonii will work from leaf cuttings? > Not sure. It certainly works from root cuttings though. Regards, Phil Wilson Email: cp@pwilson.demon.co.uk ################### From: "Andrew Marshall" Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 06:42:13 -0800 Subject: Website updated HI Folks, Cascade Carnivorous Plants has updated it's website with all new features and many new plants. Please stop in and take a look. Please note I have larger then expected plants for most of these listed, especially the N. northiana, which has done extremely well for me to the point I almost don't want to let them go. Come get them before I change my mind and keep them. Please also be sure and e-mail the web mistress with your opinions and ideas about the site. Thanks and Best wishes Andrew Check out my website Cascade Carnivorous Plants at http://cascadecarnivorous.plant.org ################### From: Susan Ziegler Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:46:05 -0600 Subject: re: pesky squirrels There is a product on the market called NIMBY which is a harmless spray you put on/around plants , basically a pepper spray that the squirrels and other small pesky animals dont' like. I work at a hardware store that sells it and have not heard any complaints about it yet, and we've sold A LOT. Hope this helps :) Susan ################### From: "Steven Stewart" Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:47:48 -0500 Subject: Sarracenia fertility Hello, Steven Stewart here, I have always found the petals dropping was concurent with loss of stigma fertility. If they haven't been pollenated by the time the petals drop they will not pollenate unless by asexual means. Take care, Steven Stewart >Anyone know how long a Sarracenia stigma remains fertile after the petals >drop? Making some hybrids with the nicer clones I've got in flower. Thanks >for the input. > >Until later > >Trent Meeks ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:54:21 -0800 Subject: Re: Various - I'm too lazy to send separate e-mails Hi Nigel, >Twirling monofilamentous algae from the tank containing my single >remaining sickly strand of Aldrovandra, I wondered if the stuff could >be recycled. After all, various veggie foods now contain algae and >they claim it's good for you. If I dropped the slime into a Sarrie >pitcher, would it derive any benefit? > I'm pretty skeptic about those claims, having worked with algae for the past 7 years or so. Especially this newish blue-green algae supplement (most blue green algae contain toxins to prevent themselves from being eaten. In the summer, when they bloom and then die at the surface, they make a horrible stink. ). Anyways, the one algae that I do know has some benefits (for fish at least) is Spirulina, a blue green algae that helps bring out the colours in tropical fish. Some people use it for their hair. I won't comment :-)! Of course, this relates to the micro-algae, not the macro-algae (eg: common seaweed (a brown algae), which is used in sushi) The algae you're talking about is likely a green algae. I can't imagine the Sarr pitcher getting any benefit from it. However, if you're bound and determined to feed it, dry it first, either in the sun or by baking it in the oven. Much easier to handle. Don't put the dry flakes in any aquatic environment as the spores left over will germinate quite quickly and you'll end up with the same problem. > >Does anyone know when the UK CPS AGM is going to be? I hope the first >newsletter reaches us before it happens (deadline was 12 February and it >takes about a month to publish so it should be imminent). I looked in >my >schizandra propagation chamber yesterday and found another dozen rooted >plantlets, so the meeting will provide a chance to dump some. > >Good Growing, NigelH Hey! Dump some of those plants over here ;-)! It seems that other than adelae, the other Queensland sundews are either not available for sale (or at outrageous prices), or people are stingy with them (joking!). Strange, considering prolifera and schizandra seem to be as easy to propagate as adelae. Happy growing, Chris -- http://www.geocities.com/cteichreb ("Coastal Carnivores", my homepage) http://www.nurserysite.com/clubs/pnwcarnivorous (Pacific Northwest Carnivorous Plant Club) ################### From: "Dave Evans" Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 13:48:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Sarracenia fertility Dear Trent, While this is true, if you want to try and make a cross after the petals have dropped, go ahead and try. However, you should assume that it is not likely that you will affect pollination with these efforts after the petals have dropped. So keep careful notes to keep track of which flowers are for sure and those that are not likely to have worked. I think you still have some time while the petals are dropping, sometimes this takes a day or two. Dave Evans ----- Original Message ----- To: Multiple recipients of list Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 11:49 AM > Hello, > Steven Stewart here, > I have always found the petals dropping was concurent with loss of stigma > fertility. If they haven't been pollenated by the time the petals drop they > will not pollenate unless by asexual means. > Take care, > Steven Stewart > > > >Anyone know how long a Sarracenia stigma remains fertile after the petals > >drop? Making some hybrids with the nicer clones I've got in flower. Thanks > >for the input. > > > >Until later > > > >Trent Meeks > > > ################### From: JDPDX@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:46:28 EST Subject: Re: Pest Strips <> Matt, I use these in my greenhouse as a very effective aphid control. I've noticed no damage to any plants from these. Brand probably makes little difference since they all use the same dichlorovinyl phosphate chemicals. Exercise some caution, however, to your own exposure to them. The chemicals in them are very nasty Jeff Portland, OR ################### From: bill_weaver@hp.com Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 17:39:29 -0500 Subject: Atlanta I will be visiting Atlanta next Friday (3/24) and was wondering if there was anyone on the list from the Atlanta Botanical Garden. Last time I was there I had questions about thier collection (mainly carnivores and thier Amorphophallus titanum)but was unable to find anyone who could provide answers. If there is anyone on the list who can help, please reply off-list...Thanks Bill Weaver bill_weaver@hp.com ################### From: Miguel de Salas Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:08:14 +1100 Subject: New member I just joined the list yesterday, so I thought I'd introduce myself. I live in Tasmania, Australia, and while I don't currently keep any CPs, I've always had an interest in them. I'm currently studying for my PhD in botany, specialising in red tides and algal blooms. We have several species of Drosera in the state, including D. arcturi D. Pygmaea D. glanduligera D. spathulata D. binata D. auriculata D. peltata D. gracilis, and D. planchonii We also have several species of Utricularia: U. flexulosa U. dichotoma U. lateriflora, and U. monanthos As far as I know these are the only insectivorous plants native to Tassie, but I may be mistaken. Cheers Miguel de Salas School of Plant Science, University of Tasmania, PO Box 252-55, Sandy Bay, Hobart Tasmania, Australia, 7001. mailto://mm_de@postoffice.utas.edu.au My Moths Page: http://members.xoom.com/migueldes/moths/moths.html ################### From: 8357737 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 19:53:41 -0600 Subject: Utricularia Hi, I have a Utricularia vulgaris that had come out of dormancy and was looking very happy. I left the greenhouse where I have it housed Friday night. When I came back Monday morning my U. vulgaris was a brown slimy mess. What happened? I had it growing in lake water. That should not have been a problem as the plant grows native here. This particular plant came from Portugal. But it is the same species. And I know there was no sudden temperature change. Temperature in the greenhouse is recorded continuously so I can track that. Outside we went from nice warm weather to sudden snow storms, but that should not have affected the inside. Anyone else have similar problems with this plant? If I did something wrong, let me know and I won't do it again. BTW , Adao, I have Drosera seed sprouting. :) :) :). Now If I can keep from killing it to. Thanks for any suggestions. Anita, Minnesota, USA [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Richard Jobson" Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:09:19 +1000 Subject: confused Utrics Hi Anita, I have the same problem with aquatic Utrics from Europe, they seem to form turions and then begin growth, and in a week or two they become turions again, this is in the Australian summer. Did your plants form any turions? A weekend is not long but it happens pretty quickly. I also had a large container full of local U. aurea that flowered and grew like mad for a year then just died very quicky (within a week). I think the water conditions reached some threshold (from the constantly decaying plant) and that was that. Is your lake water from a suitable Utric habitat, maybe high pH or high nitrate levels have limited the growth?, so the plant sprung into action and then hated the conditions. These plants are specialised for fast apical growth (thanks Lubomir) and die very quickly. Also algae turns the plants into muck like lightning. Just on the algae problem, aquatic snails will do the job free of charge ie. they won't eat the plants. And back to the slug beer I wonder if a stronger, smelly beer like Guinness (thats the thick, brown stuff) may work better? Hope I have helped, Rich. ################### From: "Richard Jobson" Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:13:28 +1000 Subject: Snails Nigel, Save your Aldrovanda and employ some aquatic snails!! Rich. ################### From: Todd Wuest Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 04:06:21 -0600 Subject: Pest strips sorry if this is a duplicate but a message i sent yesterday on this subject didn't make it into the following list, anyway on No Pest strips. of all chemical nasties this is probably the last one that i'd use, it's active ingredient is dichlorvos(2.2 dichlorovinyl ...). Dichlorvos is carcinogenic, mutagenic, pretty toxic, recently made illegal in many formulations, including your pest strip, in california, and the active ingredient is intended to be released into the surroundings in order to be effective. Speaking of effectiveness, it isn't very effective against many bugs it's intended to kill, results vary, but compared to many much safer chemicals on the market its record against bugs isn't much to speak of (however its has directly caused several deaths in humans). oddly enough the most effective pesticide spray available to the average consumer in the US is also the safest true pesticide i know of, it's called Bayer advanced garden control and contains cyfluthrin and imidacloprid(the active ingredient in Advantage, a flea treatment used a lot here in the US). both are very, very toxic to bugs and very safe to humans, being neither carcinogenic, mutagenic, and having a low acute toxicity. P.S. to Sundew Sundew- i sent you an email last week wondering if you'd be interested in selling a couple of plants on your grow list, i assume you didn't recognize the name and deleted it anyway, are d. prolifera, d. schizandra, g. aurea, g. hispidula, or p. emarginata up for sale or trade. thanks todd wuest ################### From: Christer Berglund Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:56:28 +0100 Subject: re: Strange Drosera Growth Hi Matt, > a lot better than my luck with lowries seed. my results were so lousy with > the batch my friend sent me that, had i paid for what i received, i would > have been extremely disappointed. since they were free, i wont complain - > ive at least got 1 seedling each of d fulva, broomensis and caduca from the > deal. Germination of the seed that I have received from Lowrie has varied greatly, from high to none. Anyway, you mention the poor germination in some seed from the petiolaris-complex and I have experienced the same. >From my latest batch the result was: paradoxa 5, caduca 2 (possibly a third), aff. paradoxa 3 and falconeri/kenneally both 0. I'm especially anxious to see the distinctly looking caduca as an adult plant. > but crowding can do funny things to drosera - usually at Definitely, I've seen seedlings of the capensis looking like D. madagascariensis when they're struggling for light. Some seedlings of the cuneifolia/natalensis grew in a similar fashion in the beginning, which I also attribute to the low light conditions. Regards, -- Christer Berglund E-mail: christer.berglund@amiga.pp.se ################### From: "Joseph Kinyon" Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:25:24 -0800 Subject: ICPS in California Dear ? (I'm embarrassed to say I can't remember who it was, sorry.) The ICPS plant show is coming up, and I wanted to pay for entry to it. I lost all my e-mail regarding this, including some conversations about San Francisco water quality, the whereabouts of the Conservatory of Flowers nepenthes collection, and the need for a whiz bang show on CP's in the Bay Area. If any or all of this rings a bell, then please contact me (as I have lost the ability to contact you) on how to ante up my admission fee and touch base. If you know who I am talking about, then ask them to drop a line. They live in San Francisco, not to far from Golden Gate Park. Thanks Joseph Kinyon California Academy of Sciences Education Golden Gate Park San Francisco, CA 94965 jkinyon@calacademy.org www.calacademy.org ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:55:03 -0800 Subject: Ron Sbragia Hi all, Sorry about the interuption. Ron, I tried to reply to your e-mail, but it was rejected, twice. Do you have an alternate address I can use? Thanks! Chris ################### From: S.Ippenberger@t-online.de (Ippenberger) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 21:27:45 +0100 Subject: New book: Neblina-Of Mists And Scents Hi all, having got my copy of the new book: Neblina-Of Mists And Scents yesterday I wanted to let you know that my first impression is: A really great work done on the table mountains and on Neblina itself. The photos are great! Together with Fernandos impressive articles to the list last year an impression I wouldnot like to miss! Stefan ################### From: "Joseph Kinyon" Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:05:19 -0800 Subject: Genlisea illustration Not sure who, just following through, I have a copy of Darwin's Insectivorous Plants (1896) with an illustration of genlisea made by his son in the last chapter. It isn't terribly informative, just historically interesting. Let me know if you could use this. Joseph Kinyon Education jkinyon@calacademy.org ################### From: strega@split.it (Tassara) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 23:59:52 +0100 Subject: Re: Drosera hamiltonii from leaf cuttings? >>Anyone know if D.hamiltonii will work from leaf cuttings? >> >Not sure. It certainly works from root cuttings though. It worked for me last winter in a terrarium on living Sphagnum; I used two entire leaves Regards Filippo Tassara Genoa, Italy ################### From: JWi5770869@aol.com Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:00:02 EST Subject: UKCPS AGM In a message dated 16/03/00 08:30:06 GMT Standard Time, cp@opus.hpl.hp.com writes: > Does anyone know when the UK CPS AGM is going to be? I hope the first > newsletter reaches us before it happens (deadline was 12 February and it > takes about a month to publish so it should be imminent). I looked in > my > schizandra propagation chamber yesterday and found another dozen rooted > plantlets, so the meeting will provide a chance to dump some. > > Good Growing, NigelH I think that it is on May 1st at Wisley.I hope to be there and wouldn't mind you dumping a shizandra on me!!!!!! John Wilden Southport Lancs. UK ################### From: JWi5770869@aol.com Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:08:24 EST Subject: Sarracenia fertility In a message dated 16/03/00 08:30:06 GMT Standard Time, cp@opus.hpl.hp.com writes: > Anyone know how long a Sarracenia stigma remains fertile after the petals > >drop? Making some hybrids with the nicer clones I've got in flower. Thanks > >for the input. > > > >Until later > > > >Trent Meeks > Another problem that I've found with Sarra's (Flava's mainly) is their susceptability to not dropping any pollen if the flower is exposed to cooler conditions once its matured. Has anyone else noticed this? The plants aren't exposed to extreme cool, but if there are any bad days, in the Spring, once the flowers have opened then I've noticed that they don't seem to drop any pollen. John Wilden Southport Lancs. UK ################### From: Catalano Marcello Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 12:42:12 +0100 Subject: looking fo a job with cp dear friends, dear unknowns, you are my last hope. My name is Marcello Catalano, 24 years old. I'm italian, I live in Milan. I made the grammar school. I'm the founder of the italian cp society, and very proud of it! I've been growing cp since more than 10 years. Especially all the pitcher plants, that I consider the most sexy. Now I decided to go away from Italy, and to go to live in an other place of europe. I will go in the january 2001. I want to stay in europe 'cause "the rest" is really too far and I still have to learn to live alone. I know english language and some french. And I'm good looking! :) Now, the problem: a job and a house. Not exactly an easy problem, I know. As you can suppose from the title, I'd like to find a job involving cp, it would be my dream. But it's really difficult. If I don't find it I'm ready to go in any case, and now I'm working a lot to earn enough money to survive for one year, looking for a job in the mean time, if there will be this necessity. But I'm sure that you could help me, as you are really a lot :) Well, this is the request: a job with cp. I have the experience and I just need the money to survive. If any of you has ideas, suggestions or...a job, I'm here. I can also send my curriculum, as I made many other jobs here. thanks a lot, Marcello Catalano via Ronchi 2 20134 milano Italy ################### From: "Carl Strohmenger (HSC)" Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:13:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: New book: Neblina-Of Mists And Scents I checked with Amazon.com for that title, but they did not list it or have any reference to it yesterday. Where is this book available? Does it have an ISBN number? - Carl On Thu, 16 Mar 2000, Ippenberger wrote: > Hi all, > > having got my copy of the new book: Neblina-Of Mists And Scents yesterday I > wanted to let you know that my first impression is: A really great work done on > the table mountains and on Neblina itself. The photos are great! Together with > Fernandos impressive articles to the list last year an impression I wouldnot like > to miss! > Stefan > > ################### From: Nigel Hurneyman Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 13:39:15 +0000 Subject: Aquatic CPs and Water Snails Thanks for the advice, but I have lost Aldrovandra in the past when the water snails have finished off the algae and fancied dessert - even ramshorns. I've been urged to try Malaysian Sand Snails which are supposed to be very unpartial to aquatic plants but nobody will admit to selling them! NigelH ################### From: "Hideka Kobayashi" Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:03:46 CST Subject: More on squirrels I was thinking the other day that a product based on wolf urine might work against them as well. I have seen it somewhere (cannot remember where), and maybe someone interested can do a little search on this. I certainly do not want to work in the factory which makes this product, and I am wondering how they do it. I also read in "Dear Abby" (might be Ann Launders)that somebody asked her grandson to pee in her garden to deter groundhogs or hedgehogs. It might work well, but I am not encouraging public urination! Squirrels drive me crazy, and they don't let me sleep easily because of the noise they make. But I do not have an intention to kill them (for now). Hideka ################### From: Harwoodpa@aol.com Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 17:10:23 EST Subject: Re: U.K. C.P.S. Hello Nigel & John The A.G.M. is on Sat. 29th of April at Wisley. This year we have a bigger room, to avoid the crush of last year !!! Kind regards Paul Harwood ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:09:25 -0800 Subject: Re: More on squirrels Hi Hideka, >I was thinking the other day that a product based on wolf urine might work >against them as well. I have seen it somewhere (cannot remember where), and >maybe someone interested can do a little search on this. I certainly do not >want to work in the factory which makes this product, and I am wondering how >they do it. I'm not sure about how they manufacture it, probably through synthetic means with the right balance of herbs and odours :-)! However, wolf urine probably will not work with the squirrels, since they have probably never seen a wolf in their life, don't know what the urine smells like, and wouldn't know until it was too late! Something like dog or cat urine might be better (the wolf may be close enough to a dog). > >I also read in "Dear Abby" (might be Ann Launders)that somebody asked her >grandson to pee in her garden to deter groundhogs or hedgehogs. It might >work well, but I am not encouraging public urination! Well, if you want to do this, let us know the results at least! > >Squirrels drive me crazy, and they don't let me sleep easily because of the >noise they make. But I do not have an intention to kill them (for now). > >Hideka Can you not live trap them out, or are you being overrun by a large number of them? Chris -- http://www.geocities.com/cteichreb ("Coastal Carnivores", my website) http://www.nurserysite.com/clubs/pnwcarnivorous (Pacific Northwest Carnivorous Plant Club) ################### From: "William M. Gorum, Jr." Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 09:44:12 -0600 Subject: RE: Aquatic CP's and Water Snails Hey Listmembers.... Nigel made reference to a Malaysian Sand Snail. Here in Louisiana, USA, I think this is what we call Malaysian Tube Snails. They are a small aquatic snail, approx. 1/4 - 1/2 inch long. They are a livebearing snail that will quickly take over an aquarium, in fact, many aquarium keepers consider them pests. I've never seen them damage aquatic plants, but they are effective at controlling algae and detritus in an aquarium's substrate. I've never seen them "for sale" per se, but their eggs are often found on aquarium plants and when the eggs hatch, the snails are introduced into the pet store's tanks. Our local pet stores are quite happy to allow me to pick the snails out of the tanks and use them for various purposes (read as "fish food") Maybe your local fish stores would allow you to do the same? TTYL! Will wgorum@bellsouth.net P.S. Also, notice change in email address :) ################### From: westonb@pacbell.net Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 09:47:30 -0800 Subject: European Sources/Collections? A buisness trip next month will have me visiting for 2-3 days each in Munich, London and Paris. I would like to find and visit cactus or carnivorous plant nurseries or collections that can be gotten to by public transportation, as it is unlikely I will have a car to use. I thank you for sharing your advice or past experiences and discoveries as to what might be available. Vendors that carry seed would be especially valuable--as that would be much easier to pack and carry. Reply privately if you like, to westonb@pacbell.net. Weston ################### From: fe_riva@uol.com.br Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 16:39:38 -0300 (BRT) Subject: Re: Barry's G.aurea Hey Barry, Just wanted to give you some bad news. I took a look at the picture of your G.aurea and I'm sorry to say that's not G.aurea! The leaves are too wide and too few. Take a look at my website (http://www.mcef.ep.usp.br/carnivoras/), click on "Generos e Especies", then on Genlisea, then on G.aurea further down the page. I think the 1st and 5th pictures will show you clearly what G.aurea leaves should look like. Their very long and narrow. Plus, they've got that thick goo on them. Take Care, Fernando Rivadavia Sao Paulo, Brazil ################### From: "Hideka Kobayashi" Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 23:58:39 CST Subject: Off topic Hi Chris. Thank you or responding to my trashy posting. I thought about posting my reply, but it is way off topic. So that's why I decided to privately respond you. I'm not sure about how they manufacture it, probably through synthetic means with the right balance of herbs and odours :-)! No, they claim, it is 'true' wolf urine. I have some questions regarding this. Who would know if it is really 'true' or not? I am not going to investigate this. Second, if it is 'true' urine, how would they collect every time a wolf pee? And how do they collect and how do they store their product? It is such a mystery to me. If it is fake, what does it suppose to mean??? It is like the 'cheese mystery' to me. Even if it is fake as you assume, somebody did a study on this, and I feel sorry for the guy. He should be given a credit, and might have a degree of one or two on this, but I can understand if he does not want it. However, wolf urine probably will not work with the squirrels, since they have probably never seen a wolf in their life, don't know what the urine smells like, and wouldn't know until it was too late! I might have read a feedback from a satisfied customer (I guess you can be satisfied by buying some urine) that it worked agaist something. I think it was deer. Since most wild animals have never encountered a wolf (aren't they endangered, or something?), but still worked. I think it is more of territory thing other than squirrels' experience with wolves. I totally agree with you on feline and canine urine. Well, if you want to do this, let us know the results at least! No, I don't have such courage. I kinda though about it, but since my room is in the attique area, climbimg up on the roof would be a problem. Would I want people see me urinating on the roof? Certainly not. Ieven thought about pouring my urine into bottle, but if one of my room mate sees it, I would have a difficult time in explaining. Can you not live trap them out, or are you being overrun by a large number of them? As I mentioned, my room is just below the roof. I think there are only a few, but they do make nerve cracking noises. I did not know they are such nasty little vermins. They cry, vibrate, and I think they craw into the space between the ceiling and the roof. Needless to say, my hositility grows every time they make a noise. Hideka Chris ################### From: "Hideka Kobayashi" Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 02:57:41 CST Subject: All apologies Hi, I really did not mean to post the last message. I am now sure I made a serious mistake, but I will appreciate if you just pretend you did not see it. I am so embarrased now. If I offend anyone by my indecent message, I sincerely appologize. Hideka ################### From: "Richard Jobson" Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 18:55:09 +1000 Subject: G. aurea goo Hi Fernando, Any thoughts on the thick goo on G. aurea leaves, any ecological purpose. It makes the drying of leaves in silica a pain as it is difficult to wash off. Best, Rich. ################### From: "Dave Evans" Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 09:36:35 -0500 Subject: Re: No-Pest Strip by Hot Shot Hey Matt, If they are predator mites, maybe you should keep them. Dave E ################### From: "Andrew Marshall" Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:13:07 -0800 Subject: squirrels Hello Hideka, I sympethise with your squirrel problem. I lived in a place once that was rat and squirrel infested. Same noises, same feelings of disgust and rage at the nasty little vermin. I got my own back on them though. Rat traps baited with peanut butter. If you can't use traps, get peanut butter and mix in some rat poison. It will work. Make small balls of this bait and leave them next to your plants or in the places only squirrels go. They have a keen sense of small and will smell the peanut butter easily from a long distance. They come running over, eat it and go away to die. This way you do not leave poison all over the place for any animal to get into, you only get the squirrels. I hope it solves your problem. I know how some folks feel about this sort of solution, but really, with this type of vermin there is no real time other alternative except shooting that works. I tried live trapping and transporting, hauling 20 a distance of 10 miles away. Either thay returned or the vacuum left in the population was immediatly filled becasue there was only a two day respite from thier depradations and then the numbers returned to where they were befeor I trapped them all out. Good luck! Andrew ################### From: Wayne Morrow Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 10:36:26 -0600 Subject: Re: Squirrel control Has anyone considered getting a cat? If a cat doesn't kill them all, he will at least make them very nervous. ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 09:17:34 -0800 Subject: Re: Off topic Hi Hideka, No problem about responding to the list. I didn't think it was that offensive. A little off topic maybe ;-)! Well, I think you've got lots of options now of how to deal with the squirrels. Hopefully one of them works! Regards, Chris -- http://www.geocities.com/cteichreb ("Coastal Carnivores", my homepage) http://www.nurserysite.com/clubs/pnwcarnivorous (Pacific Northwest Carnivorous Plant Club) ################### From: S.Ippenberger@t-online.de (Ippenberger) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 19:29:22 +0100 Subject: Germinating Roridula dentata Hello, yesterday I was lucky enough to harvest 7 seeds of R. dentata. Has anybody germinated that species successfully? What I want to do is to sow them after a 24h GAB3 treatment on pure peat or to sow them sterile in vitro. Any experiences would be very recommended. Stefan ################### From: "Carl Strohmenger (HSC)" Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 18:02:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Squirrel control Cats are of no or very limited use in squirrel control. Squirrels are faster and more agile than cats, can climb faster and farther, and easily negotiate small wires (clothesline, telephone line, power line) that a cat cannot. I have cats (my own abd other people's) in my yard and they have no noticable affect on the depredations of squirrels. Go for the rat traps and bait. Nothing else seems to do the job. - Carl On Sun, 19 Mar 2000, Wayne Morrow wrote: > Has anyone considered getting a cat? If a cat doesn't kill them all, he > will at least make them very nervous. > > ################### From: "Richard Jobson" Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 18:58:03 +1000 Subject: Matts Mites 0000,0000,FF00Hey Matt, If they are predator mites, maybe you should keep them. Dave E 0000,0000,0000Good point, but Matt hates any creature that does not have sticky leaves!! Ha Ha. Richard.0100,0100,0100 ################### From: Jack Elder Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:35:30 -0000 Subject: Scaring squirrels - predator urine Hi all; Just to add a URL to the discussion: someone mentioned a place that sold predator urine. Well, they sell it online, at http://www.predatorpee.com. I've not used the products myself (I got the URL through an unusual links mailing list I'm on), but they certainly talk up a storm. For squirrels, they recommend fox urine. The web site is certainly worth checking out; for humour value, if nothing else. Cheers Jack ################### From: "george anderson" Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:37:40 -0600 Subject: squirrels yes, squirrels are big problem for many. no, if you trap them and/or destroy them, others will come and take their place. so, whats the answer? i offer a partial solution. MY METHOD: i trap them, mark them with spray paint (for further observation), then dunk them (while in the trap) in the pond. the attempt here is at condition avoidance therapy. i lower them into the water with the cage at an elevation. then i carefully observe the bubbles. after a very few bubbles, i raise the cage and observe the behavior of the animal, if hostile/aggressive, more therapy is required. REMEMBERING THAT THE AIM HERE IS NOT TO KILL THE ANIMAL (you need them to keep the other, less educated, animals out). when docility is achieved, then the animals are released. using this procedure, i have not lost a single animal and have almost no plant loss. the squirrels steer a wide berth avoiding both the trap (never caught one twice) and humans. aside from that, their lives are quite normal and long. further, their behavior tends to carry to their young (with some exceptions). and clearly this adversive therapy is better than the slow anticoagulent death from poison. ################### From: "Susan Farrington" Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:26:04 -0600 Subject: Poisoning squirrels Andrew wrote: > If you can't use traps, get peanut butter and mix in some rat poison. > It will work. Make small balls of this bait and leave them next to > your plants or in the places only squirrels go. They have a keen > sense of small and will smell the peanut butter easily from a long > distance. They come running over, eat it and go away to die. > This way you do not leave poison all over the place for any animal > to > get into, you only get the squirrels. Please remember that dead squirrels don't just disappear: some other animal WILL eat their carcass (a hawk, a vulture, a coyote, etc). So that poison WILL affect another creature, and even another, as that animal dies and some other animal eats it. You are killing multiple animals when you use poison in this fashion. So PLEASE... find other means to get rid of the offender. How about a pellet gun? Susan Farrington Missouri Botanical Garden P.O. Box 299 St. Louis MO 63166-0299 susan.farrington@mobot.org (314)577-9402 ################### From: Catalano Marcello Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 15:16:49 +0100 Subject: looking for a job with cp Sorry, I repost my message because it appeared in the weekend and maybe ther was not enough audience. Maybe I'll also post it again in the future, to have more possibilities. Try to understand me :) ... dear friends, dear unknowns, you are my last hope. My name is Marcello Catalano, 24 years old. I'm italian, I live in Milan. I made the grammar school. I'm the founder of the italian cp society, and very proud of it! I've been growing cp since more than 10 years. Especially all the pitcher plants, that I consider the most sexy. Now I decided to go away from Italy, and to go to live in an other place of europe. I will go in the january 2001. I want to stay in europe 'cause "the rest" is really too far and I still have to learn to live alone. I know english language and some french. And I'm good looking! :) Now, the problem: a job and a house. Not exactly an easy problem, I know. As you can suppose from the title, I'd like to find a job involving cp, it would be my dream. But it's really difficult. If I don't find it I'm ready to go in any case, and now I'm working a lot to earn enough money to survive for one year, looking for a job in the mean time, if there will be this necessity. But I'm sure that you could help me, as you are really a lot :) Well, this is the request: a job with cp. I have the experience and I just need the money to survive. If any of you has ideas, suggestions or...a job, I'm here. I can also send my curriculum, as I made many other jobs here. thanks a lot, Marcello Catalano via Ronchi 2 20134 milano Italy ################### From: Sunpitcher@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:32:34 EST Subject: squirrel control I know of a squirrel solution that works better than cats. My border collie can run one down and kill it in a flash! Had to train her NOT to do that. Just a thought. Angie Nichols, South Carolina, USA ################### From: "Adao Pereira" Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 16:50:29 -0000 Subject: Huh? Summer dormancy? Hello! I'm worried about some of my sundews, namely Drosera cistiflora, D. manni and D. sewelliae. All these need a summer dormancy, don't they? But I have "germinated" these in winter, and now that the weather is warming, they are growing, when they should be starting to rest (my D. menziesii have flowered and are already dying, so I guess it's time to rest). What should I do, then? Let them grow? I don't understand the pigmy drosera life cycle. When do they produce gemmae? I want that my D. sewelliae produce gemmae before they enter dormancy. And the flowers? The D. manni are flowering, will they enter automatically dormancy after that? Or must I trigger dormancy? Thanks and good growing! Miguel [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: Davidogray@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 16:30:10 EST Subject: Confirmation to all those registered for the ICPS Conference Hello readers, This note is to confirm that I have sent the initial mailing to all those registered for the ICPS Conference -- all those that indicated they were willing to receive their information by e-mail should have had an e-mail from me by Saturday. If you are registered and you did not get this mailing today ( or got two copies ), please write me, and I will send you the mailing and/or update my list. Those of you who indicated you wished to receive your information by postal mail will be getting their information within a couple of weeks. There will be more conference news posted here in the next few days. Thanks to everyone who has registered early for the Conference. Cheers, David PS -- I ommitted the phone number for the Art Center Bed & Breakfast; it is (415) 567-1526 ################### From: S.Ippenberger@t-online.de (Ippenberger) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 19:25:39 +0100 Subject: Neblina-book Hello, I was emailed privately for an accurate review of the book on Mount Neblina and a source to obtain it. You can find a review on the following page of Stefan Wolf: http://www.angelfire.com/de/cpbooks/xnebliE0.html He also sells that title for about 55 or 60 US$. Hope this helps Stefan ################### From: "Stefan P. Wolf" Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:12:26 +0100 Subject: Re: New book: Neblina-Of Mists And Scents > I checked with Amazon.com for that title, but they did not list it > or have any reference to it yesterday. Where is this book available? http://www.angelfire.com/de/cpbooks/ (catalogue has a review) http://www.neblina.net/Pages/Pages_html_english/Book1.html (editors) Best regards, Stefan. -- Dipl.-Inform. Stefan P. Wolf ................................................ mail : Zehlendorfer Str. 69, 24111 Kiel, GERMANY phone: (+49 431) 5973173 * fax: (+49 431) 697568 CP books >> http://www.angelfire.com/de/cpbooks/ ................................................ ################### From: Phil Wilson Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:35:23 +0000 Subject: Re: Huh? Summer dormancy? Hi, > >I'm worried about some of my sundews, namely Drosera cistiflora, D. >manni and D. sewelliae. All these need a summer dormancy, don't >they? But I have "germinated" these in winter, and now that the >weather is warming, they are growing, when they should be starting >to rest (my D. menziesii have flowered and are already dying, so I >guess it's time to rest). What should I do, then? Let them grow? >I don't understand the pigmy drosera life cycle. When do they >produce gemmae? I want that my D. sewelliae produce gemmae before >they enter dormancy. And the flowers? The D. manni are flowering, >will they enter automatically dormancy after that? Or must I >trigger dormancy? > Your plants will enter dormancy when they are ready to. Do not try to force them into dormancy. Before going through dormancy the plants will need to build up reserves. You will probably find the plants start entering dormancy within the next few months. The two factors which seem to trigger this is daytime temperature and photoperiod. If your plants have only just started to grow again you may have kept them too cold over the winter. While most of the winter growing Drosera will take a slight freeze and are certainly okay at temperatures around 5C they will not actively grow. I prefer a day time average of about 8 - 10C allowing the temperature to drop to around 2-5C at night. Pygmy Drosera produce gemmae once they have started to grow again - i.e. after dormancy. Mostly pygmys will start to go dormant once they have finished flowering. This does not apply to all species or even to individual plants. Once your plants are dormant reduce watering but do not entirely dry the pots. The aim is to keep the dormant plants damp enough to prevent their death and dry enough to prevent rotting. The exception is D. cistiflora which can be allowed to dry out but also does not seem to mind a slightly damp dormancy. The pygmys will restart growth on their own. Do not try to coax them out of dormancy by watering too early. As with dormancy the trigger to get the plants growing again seems to be a drop in temperature and a reduction in the daylight length. D. cistiflora is again different. In my experience you need to re-wet the pots to get the plants back into growth. I usually start watering my plants at the end of August and expect to get above the ground growth by the beginning of November (though quite often this is sooner). Hope this helps. Phil Wilson Email: cp@pwilson.demon.co.uk ################### From: Broom Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 07:56:46 -0600 Subject: Broom's back in Dayton Email and address as below (I will not get email from the MTCO account). | Broom Broom@prodigy.net | The Lady Perrine: 937-222-2330, 233 Perrine St, Dayton OH 45410 \|/ /|\ Ministerium honor est, which means: //|\\ "Love conquers all; let us yield to love." ################### From: "Thune Stig Henning/2AE" Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:09:11 +0100 Subject: My Venus Flytrap "just died" ?? My Muscipula (venus fly trap) has been growing in my terrarium. Now after 2 weeks.. hit has begun to get brown.. Is it going dormant ? or.. \017 The terrarium holds 26degrees celsius. Regards,\017 Stig Henning ################### From: "Andrew Marshall" Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 07:40:59 -0800 Subject: Poisoning Squirrels Hi Susan, I write for the person, like myself once, who lives in a big city and can not legally or safely use a pellet gun. In these cities there is little 'wildlife' to worry about except rats (who need killing anyway) possums and racoons (also in dire need of a good stiff control program) and feral dogs. Avian 'wildlife' consists of house sparrows, starlings and pigeons. All three non-native and in the case of the first two in desperate need of some sort of control. If they are willing to eat poisoned bait and drop dead... good for them and all the native birds who will be able to nest now because the sparrows and starlings are dead. They don't however so no worry there. Obviously, out where any kind of gun can be used, safely and legally mind, then go ahead and blast away. I do! Much more satisfying and you know you got him! You have to realise as I already know that while poisoning IS just that, and *can* affect a whole host of other creatures if not used properly, usually in reality it simply doesn't. I know, I have spent many many years waging war on squirrels, possums and racoons on behalf of my plants, and many years studying wildlife in professional as well as recreational capacities. I have tried everything, even behaviour modification. The *only* way to not hurt anything and still have plants is to cage off the plants which many people will not or can not do. Therefore something else must be done, hence the questions and multiple suggestions that are being discussed here lately. If done right, in the right place, poisoning is a very effective method and should be used. With all the 'ifs' in place though. Happy squirrel hunting folks Andrew ################### From: "John Orr" Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 11:23:03 -0500 Subject: Squirrels One method which works quite often in my experience is to use red pepper powder. This in combination witha pepper spray which can easily be made with habenero peppers put in a blender and let to sit a couple of days and then strained can be put into a spray bottle and sprayed on the plants with no effect observed to the plants but the animals will not come back again. It can also be put into one of the high powered water guns and sprayed directly on the offenders. Pepper spray bought as a personal protection device will also work with no long term physical harm being observed while having a permanent deterrent effect. [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: bruce dudley Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:37:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: killing squirrels and other critters..... Dear Readers: > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:37:40 -0600 > From: "george anderson" > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 07:26:04 -0600 George: This idea is great! Thanks for the idea.... And Susan: Thank you!! We need to educate people about a great many ways that animals inter-relate. People need to be more in tune with their pets behaviors! Cats and Dogs will scavange dead animals. If there is poison in the dead body then the dog and cat may get a lethal dose too! Do we really want to be poisoning our kid's pets?? (In addition to the welfare of our environment, too) Your response beat me to it and you said it all better than I could have, too! > From: "Susan Farrington" > > To: cp@opus.hpl.hp.com > Subject: Poisoning squirrels > Message-ID: <200003201325.HAA16731@vitis.mobot.org> > > Please remember that dead squirrels don't just > disappear: some other > animal WILL eat their carcass (a hawk, a vulture, a > coyote, etc). So > that poison WILL affect another creature, and even > another, as that > animal dies and some other animal eats it. You are > killing multiple > animals when you use poison in this fashion. So > PLEASE... find other > means to get rid of the offender. How about a pellet > gun? ################### From: "Joe Harden" Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:26:42 -0600 Subject: Squirrels -- The most evil of all vermin! After reading post after post of Anti-Squirrel mails, I have to throw in my 3 cents. (Interest rates went up...) Nobody, and I mean NOBODY should underestimate these rodents, they are smarter than you may think. Our backyard was heavily infested with them, and it was no doubt why not -- we have several pecan trees. We had a 8 year old Beagle that only made sure they didn't get their foot on the ground, but they still did damage from the trees. Actually, they would get 3-4 feet from the ground, and tease my poor dog. Anyway, we bought several of those wire mesh box-like human squirrel traps. We would catch them, haul them 5-10 miles down the road and let them loose. This kept them under control, and I wouldn't freak out with my dad getting a shotgun. I caught maybe 2-3 a week. However, one time we caught one that was more light colored than any one I had ever seen, almost blonde haired! I remember it being caught one morning, and I didn't want my dad to get rid of this one, so I moved the metal levers on the outside, and lifted the door so it could run away. You would not believe it -- from that day on, we never caught another squirrel! We would find the traps set off, turned over, and sometimes the bait we left fell out or was gone. Well, I spent all weekend watching the yard. Turned out, any one of those varmits (Not the one I let loose) would come down, look at the traps, fiddle with the lever and set it off. Then they would actually shake the cage trying to get the food to fall off to the side. I swear, I firmly believe that the one I let loose somehow showed the rest what to do. I know it sounds crazy, but I have no other explanation why those traps no longer catch them. Anyway, to help some people out, Here is some real advice. Don't Use poisen! A friend of mine lost his dog from using poisen to get rid of rats around his house. The rat ate the poisen, and the dog chewed up the rat. And there are a few post saying that other wildlife will eat the carcass -- this is true. At the last Texas Nurseryman and Landscape Association meeting, someone sold a simple device to get rid of deer and squirrels. It's a motion detector that is hooked directly to a Water Sprinkler. Whenever it detects movement, it sprays water all around the area. This looks silly, but keeps the little freaks away. SharperImage.com had an electronic device that actually puts out a signal that bugs rodents (and maybe dogs). This works for birds, but I don't know about Squirrels -- hang aluminum pie pans around your plants. This for some reason just freaks birds out, and they won't come near them. If you have a backyard collection, just make a frame from PVC, and buy the landscape nets that are used to keep deer/birds/etc from being able to get a mouthfull of the leaves. Wrap them around the PVC. But don't get the Cheap-stuff, Squirrels will chew through it (maybe spray pepper-spray on the mesh for a few weeks). Anyway, that's my 3-cents. Hope it helps you people. Joe Harden http://www.carnivorous-kingdom.com [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Joe Harden" Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:28:20 -0600 Subject: Highland Nepenthes Hey everyone...I was just wondering what's the Hottest temperature you grow your Highland Nep's at? I was talking to someone in Florida who says his greenhouse actually gets up to 100F...which some books say is too hot for them. I thought 80F was the highest you want to go...but if they can tolerate up to 100, I think I can grow them outside here in San Antonio, Texas. Joe http://www.carnivorous-kingdom.com [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Michael Hunt" Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 13:52:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Squirrels -- The most evil of all vermin! > At the last Texas Nurseryman and Landscape Association meeting, > someone sold a simple device to get rid of deer and squirrels. It's > a motion detector that is hooked directly to a Water Sprinkler. > Whenever it detects movement, it sprays water all around the area. > This looks silly, but keeps the little freaks away. Hello Joe, This is a good point. I use the hose with nozzle setting on jet. Then I can tag the squirrel as it retreats, they don't like this one bit. I started using this on the loose cats that ventured over the fence on to my property (irresonpsible pet owners) and it has cleared almost all the cats out of the back property. The cats are a far worse problem for me than squirrels, yet there are plenty of squirrels. But the pressure treatment can hit a squirrel at some distance and it does work. Now the real animal problem for me. Birds in the spring, They have started building their nest and they love to use sphagnum and even small cp for nest building. Blue Jays the worse they will pick everything out of the pot. After the nest building is over, they are not much of a problem. At first I thought they were picking the pots for insects in the substrate. This may be true, but I have watched them gt moss fiber and bring up into there nest. Take care, ~Mike St. Petersburg Fl Lots of native USA cp blooming. Sarracenia, Pings are past, and Dionaea now ################### From: Owen Priddle Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:12:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: Peat Tea Hi everybody- I apologize for reviving a subject that (if I recall correctly) has already been beaten to death, but I am curious about "peat tea" -- I believe it may be useful in my hydroponics experiments. I missed the original discussion and was unable to find it in the archives. So, if someone could either point me to where the pertinent issues are stored or give me a brief synopsis on the subject, I'd appreciate it! -Owen ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:33:09 +0100 Subject: Heliamphora I'm glad and proud that I was given permission to place some really spectacular Heliamphora-pictures taken by Thomas Carow into my web-page. Take a look at http://www.wistuba.com BTW, the internal structure of my site has been changed completely. So you have to enter it through the entrance. All other links will not work anymore. Bye Andreas ################### From: "Gilles LARDY" Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:14:01 +0800 Subject: No more squirrels Hey guys ! Squirrel hunting/scaring/slaughtering/poisoning seems to be a quite common and enjoyed sport in the US, but i'm afraid most of the reader on the list do not really feel concerned by this subject that's been going on for a week now. Why not close the issue and get back to CP business ? Thanks Gilles ################### From: "Adao Pereira" Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:22:38 -0000 Subject: Re: Huh? Summer dormancy? Hello Phil and all! Thanks for clarifying me on this matter. Just a little question: how does D. cistiflora survive the dormancy? Does it have a tuber or what? And how do I know when they want to enter dormancy? One of the seedlings seems to be dying, while the others are growing. I don't know if it's really dying or just entering dormancy. Regards, Miguel ################### From: "John Phillip Jr." Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 05:46:10 -0500 Subject: Squirrels,birds, and other "pests" hello group, I find it fascinating that this thread has been runnin so long, just shows what REALITY is like for those of us that grow our plants outside. A couple of things have come to mind reading the last week's posts.. In almost every state in the US, it is ILLEGAL to trap and transport animals live without a permit. Generally, this law was put in place to stop the spread of disease and damaging animals.. So, for those of you that have those "havahart" traps, for live trapping, by law once trapped, you have to kill the animal! It seems they usually "forget" to tell you that when you purchase the trap..BTW, I know because I wholesaled these traps for several years. Red Pepper spray, red pepper dust, even Dried blood, work AT TIMES on pests, by makin whatever they want to eat unpalatable. However, all these have to be reapplied after rain/watering. And not all animals find them bad tasteing...I know of a case where a person used Dried Blood to keep deer away, but her dog went crazy over the taste! IMHO, the only thing that I have found that truely works is a physical barrier-greenhouse, or a "cage" of some sort. I agree with the previous post about using the black plastic "Deer Netting", either over hoops or some other structure, to protect my plants. I have three dogs here, and while they can stop people from entering my yard, even they cannot seem to stop the squirrels and starlings from attacking my Neps when I hang them in trees. One other thing, I routinely keep my Nepenthes outside, and the temps have hit over 100F a few times. My Highland Neps seem to slow down then, not pitchering or growing new leaves. These seem to prefer spring and fall for good growth, with the summer growth dependant on the temps. I have not LOST a Highland nep in the summer from heat{can't say that about Heli's, unfortunately}, but they seem to slow drasticly above about 90F. I DO make sure they are sprayed/watered at least a couple times a day in that weather. Enjoy the world, one plant at a time.. John Phillip Rhode Island, Northeast coast, USA ################### From: Phil Wilson Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 12:20:55 +0000 Subject: Re: Huh? Summer dormancy? Miguel, > >Thanks for clarifying me on this matter. >Just a little question: how does D. cistiflora survive the dormancy? Does it >have a tuber or what? And how do I know when they want to enter dormancy? >One of the seedlings seems to be dying, while the others are growing. I >don't know if it's really dying or just entering dormancy. > They survive by means of fleshy roots from which the new growth emerges post dormancy. You will know the plants are going dormant when they start to die back. The above-the-ground part of the plant will die but the fleshy roots will remain below the soil surface. Regards, Phil Wilson Email: cp@pwilson.demon.co.uk ################### From: Hendrik De Rocker Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 15:40:42 +0100 Subject: Registration of hybrids Hello everybody, I've made a Sarracenia-hybrid last year, but I don't know how I can registrate it. Does a list of all registrated cp-hybrids exist? If so, how can I consult it? Thank you in advance, Hendrik ################### From: schlauer@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:05:59 +0000 Subject: Re: Registration of hybrids (actually: of names of hybrids) Dear Hendrik, > I've made a Sarracenia-hybrid last year, but I don't know how I can > registrate it. If it is a special plant (i.e. at least you are convinced it has added value for the horticultural trade), you can select a plant as a cultivar. Cultivars do not need to be hybrids, but they can of course be such. What you have to do for the registration of a cultivar name is fairly simple (see also http://www.carnivorousplants.org/cultivars/cultivarsmain.html): 1. Write a description highlighting all distinguishing features of your new cultivar (i.e. distinguishing it from all previously described cultivars). 2. Coin a name for the cultivar according to the ICNCP (International Code for the Nomenclature of Cultivated Plants). Generally, a name in a modern language will do (if it will not, I will tell you as soon as you try to register it). 3. Take a high quality colour photograph (a so-called standard) of the new cultivar that shows the distinguishing features. 4. Publish the description so it becomes available to botanists and horticulturists. 5. Submit the description and the standard to the ICPS, the International Registration Authority for names of cultivated carnivorous plants. Include either a reprint of the publication (see 4.) or submit the description (if not published yet) for publication in CPN (the Journal of the ICPS). > Does a list of all registrated cp-hybrids exist? If so, how can I > consult it? see: http://www.hpl.hp.com/bot/cp_home This includes the International Register of Cultivated Carnivorous Plants. Kind regards Jan ################### From: bruce dudley Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:38:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: shooting animals..... Okay... one last time.... If you must violently kill animals be sure YOU destroy the body too. IF you are going to shoot the animal YOU MUST be sure the body is disposed of properly. Birds of prey will feed upon the dead animal, swallow the buckshot, lead shot, whatever... and suffer all types of problems leading to death. I abhor killing any animal you will not eat. So, if you kill the squirrel I certainly hope it is to eat it. Otherwise, you are not managing your environment carefully, or wisely. This is not a plea, this is common sense. Man has done enough damage. Think before you kill. Thank you to those who don't kill. THank you for those who are beginning to see the big picture. Bruce Dudley ################### From: bigpl@FreeMailForAll.com Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:43:49 Subject: Watch Your Sales Soar -- Accept Credit Cards! OPEN A MERCHANT ACCOUNT TODAY and see your see your sales soar! We are a Top E-Commerce / Merchant Account Company which has just developed a NEW PROGRAM with an incredible 99.5% approval rate. NOW, APPROVALS WITHIN 48 HOURS. For more information please include your name and phone number in an email and mailto:creditsales@mailcity.com. Its imperative that your phone number is included ***** No Obligation No Application Fee Don't miss out on this special offer, ACT NOW! +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ For Removal mailto:trash1001@mailcity.com ################### From: "Andrew Marshall" Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:44:14 -0800 Subject: sonic control of rodents HI Joe, The motion sensitive sprinkler attachment sounds like fun. Just don't get in front of it yourself unless you have a change of clothes handy. As to the sonic device... none of them work. I have tried several types as have my in-laws to keep chipmunks, mice and squirrels out of their attics. Having spent two months living up there myself, I can tell you that even with 8 of them in the large attic, there was still plenty of all three rodents, and they didn't seem phased at all by the devices. Yes, the devices were working properly according to manufacturers instructions. They just don't work either indoors or outdoors. Pie pans and other dangly shiney things don't work for squirrels, neither do rubber snakes and large rubber crocodiles. Scarecrows don't work either. Best wishes Andrew > At the last Texas Nurseryman and Landscape Association meeting, > someone sold a simple device to get rid of deer and squirrels. It's > a motion detector that is hooked directly to a Water Sprinkler. > Whenever it detects movement, it sprays water all around the area. > This looks silly, but keeps the little freaks away. > > SharperImage.com had an electronic device that actually puts out a > signal that bugs rodents (and maybe dogs). > > This works for birds, but I don't know about Squirrels -- hang > aluminum pie pans around your plants. This for some reason just > freaks birds out, and they won't come near them. > ################### From: "Andrew Marshall" Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:53:10 -0800 Subject: highland high temps Hi Joe, Part of the equation has to do with how low the night temps get. Also what species of 'highland' are you planning on growing. N. sanguinea or N. maxima are much more hardy then N. rajah or N. edwardsiana. This is the problem with the generic use of the terms 'highland' and 'lowland'. They really do not tell you much information. I find in the sort term, spikes of high temperatures can be tolerated if the nights are allowed to go low, say into the low 50's. My former greenhouse by day was in the high 80's to 90 at times, by night from 50-60. This was in summer of course. In winter it never went higher then 80'. Humidity also plays a large part in how hot you can get. A high humidity helps considerably in keeping heat stress to a minimum. This is all short term stuff though. I would not try to keep real highlanders (or as I call them 'ultra-highlanders') in overly warm conditions with out some serious devices to keep the plants cool. They are just not built for it. > Topic No. 8 > > Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:28:20 -0600 > From: "Joe Harden" > To: "CP-ListServ" > Subject: Highland Nepenthes > Message-ID: <003101bf9363$441167e0$060000df@joe> > > Hey everyone...I was just wondering what's the Hottest temperature > you grow your Highland Nep's at? I was talking to someone in > Florida who says his greenhouse actually gets up to 100F...which > some books say is too hot for them. > > I thought 80F was the highest you want to go...but if they can > tolerate up to 100, I think I can grow them outside here in San > Antonio, Texas. > > Joe http://www.carnivorous-kingdom.com > ################### From: "Trent Meeks" Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 09:50:48 PST Subject: Re:Highland Nepenthes >Hey everyone...I was just wondering what's the Hottest temperature >you grow your Highland Nep's at? I was talking to someone in >Florida who says his greenhouse actually gets up to 100F...which >some books say is too hot for them. The key factor I've noticed, as a Nepenthes grower in Florida, is to provide the highlanders with a day/night temperature difference. Also, altitude of the species is a factor. I have a N. alata from Luzon which produces large showy pitchers during spring and fall when nights are cooler, but tolerates summer heat as well, putting on a good growth and slightly smaller pitchers in July-Sept. I was informed that it was collected at about a 3500 foot elevation. Others, such as N. carunculata, have failed miserably. >I thought 80F was the highest you want to go...but if they can >tolerate up to 100, I think I can grow them outside here in San >Antonio, Texas. If I recall correctly, the summer humidity in San Antonio gets fairly low. A small greenhouse with evaporative pads and fans would allow most highlanders and lowlanders to grow together. 100 degrees F and humidity lower than 50 percent will kill just about any Nepenthes in a fairly short time. Hope this is helpful. Until later, Trent Meeks Pompano Beach, Florida ################### From: JWi5770869@aol.com Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 16:51:20 EST Subject: squirrels and cats In a message dated 22/03/00 09:01:45 GMT Standard Time, cp@opus.hpl.hp.com writes: > using this on the loose cats that ventured over the fence on to my property > (irresonpsible pet owners) and it has cleared almost all the cats out of the Irresponsible? I own several cats. Do you want to let me know how its possible to 'tell' a cat to stay out of somebody else's backyard? (perhaps thats one of the reasons I like cats!) John 'Dr Doolittle and getting even more off topic than killing squirrels' Wilden Southport Lancs. UK ################### From: "Doug Barrett and Laura Ratti" Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 16:45:18 -0800 Subject: coarse peat moss I need some help finding coarse peat. I live in Oregon and have been to dozens of garden sites with no success. I also tried searching the web with no luck. If anyone knows where I can order a bag from, I would appreciate hearing about it. ################### From: Wayne Morrow Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:55:10 -0600 Subject: Drosera stratification, adelae offspring. How long should Drosera rotundifolia and D. intermedia spend in stratification? D. adelae is dying back. I've noticed several tiny rosette sundews growing in the moss and one seems to be growing from a buried adelae leaf. Do immature adelae look like rotundifolia? Thanks, Wayne Morrow ################### From: fe_riva@uol.com.br Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 23:24:03 -0300 (BRT) Subject: Re:G.aurea Hello Richard, >Any thoughts on the thick goo on G. aurea leaves, any >ecological purpose. It makes the drying of leaves in silica a pain as >it is difficult to wash off. Silica gel? Wait till you try drying it off for herbarium specimens!! You get more newspaper than G.aurea! My trick in the field (developed after a few years...) was to first wipe the goo off on my trousers and then put it in the herbarium press.\ As for the function of the mucilage, I've discussed this with a few other people before, including on the listserv. My conclusion was that it serves to protect from predators, possibly snails and slugs. Fire protection was ruled out since these plants (and others which have them to a lesser degree like U.pubescens + G.pygmaea) usually are not affected by fires where they grow (G.aurea and U.pubescens perennials in boggy areas while G.pygmaea dead (dormant??) by the time dry season fires sweep the mountainsides). Take Care, Fernando Rivadavia Sao Paulo, Brazil (but temporarily in the USA again for work) ################### From: SelleFrancais1@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 07:24:56 EST Subject: Re: squirrels and cats In a message dated 3/22/00 2:00:22 PM Pacific Standard Time, JWi5770869@aol.com writes: > > Irresponsible? I own several cats. Do you want to let me know how its > possible to 'tell' a cat to stay out of somebody else's backyard? (perhaps Yes- let alone 'stay' inside the house, when they are an 'indoor' cat! ################### From: "Philip Semanchuk" Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:06:28 -0500 Subject: Re: No more squirrels >Hey guys ! Squirrel hunting/scaring/slaughtering/poisoning seems to be a >quite common and enjoyed sport in the US, but i'm afraid most of the reader >on the list do not really feel concerned by this subject that's been going >on for a week now. Why not close the issue and get back to CP business ? Gilles, This *is* CP business, just be glad you don't need to be interested in it. I've already lost my only Drosera this year to an animal digging in my pots, and yesterday I found my Dionaea muscipula 'Red Dragon' has been dug up for the third time this year. Given the number of postings on this topic I would judge that there are a lot of other people interested too. If the topic bores you, exercise your delete key avec plaisir! : ) Regards and good growing to all, Philip URL du jour: http://www.hungersite.org/ ################### From: "Strata, Inc." Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:06:14 -0600 Subject: To Bruce Dudley & Gilles Lardy, re: squirrels and killing animals Mr. Lardy, your comment of "killing squirrels is a common and enjoyed sport in the US" shows a bias against hunting, an aversion to the common-sense practice of getting rid of animals harmful to one's crops and other property, and an anti-American bias in general. I sense a position that animals have rights, as humans do, and that the animals "rights" overide human ones. Here in the Texas countryside it is common (and sensible) practice to shoot feral cats, dogs, and coyotes which kill farm animals and pose a health hazard to other animals and humans. There is an annual State-sponsored coyote bounty to control their population. Hunting for game is a long tradition which satisfies the primal urge and satisfaction of killing one's food; I know, you were under the impression that meat comes from super-markets, wrapped in clear plastic! If you eat meat, or use any animal products (like leather shoes), I submit that it is hypocritical to let someone else do your killing for you while you enjoy the products of that killing. While I support no unnecessary cruelty to animals, I do espouse the view that animals have no rights whatsoever, and that the property and livelihood rights of humans overide any concern for animals' well-being! Try telling a huge charging Grizzly about your love for animals when facing him in the woods: you kill him or he kills you (yes I have as much a right to be in the woods as he!). In addition, squirrel-control is ON the CP subject as squirrels can destroy one's CPs. By the way, squirrel stew is delicious!!,.. Sincerely, Michael Pagoulatos [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "dick c tran" Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:21:06 -0800 Subject: n. villosa hi y'all, Whoever has successfully grown N. villosa or any ultra-highlands living in the southern parts of the USA. I would REALLY like to hear of your methodology. Dick MailCity. Secure Email Anywhere, Anytime! http://www.mailcity.lycos.com ################### From: "Michael Hunt" Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 11:23:49 -0500 Subject: animal pest ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Hunt To: JWi5770869@aol.com Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 7:56 AM Subject: Oh unwelcome cats Irresponsible? I own several cats. Do you want to let me know how its possible to 'tell' a cat to stay out of somebody else's backyard? (perhaps that's one of the reasons I like cats!) Hello John, I can only speak for circumstances here in the States. In the majority of our urban and suburban area's there are leash laws that applies both to cats & dogs. In my city of St. Petersburg this is the case. I could use your same argument for my dog to an extent. I do realize it isn't as difficult to maintain a dog on its property than a cat. But none the less, if I just opened the front door and let the dog out I'm sure he would have no difficulty going to a neighbors yard and taking a dump in there garden where he would find a nice odor and then kicking up dirt with his back legs to mark his area. I don't care for cats, but certainly not everyone cares for dogs and some don't care for either. So why should I push my interest on others? I don't. If I wanted a cat I would have one. But for some reason certain people don't have the same respect for their fellow neighbors . I often look out the window and see a unwelcome cat putting its ass up against the back of a prized plant which I take time and money to grow and watch it spray its territory. Or awaken at 3am to a cat fight outside my bedroom window which awakens my dog and it won't shut up. Or find unwanted kittens in my garage due to some feral cat that no one wants messing with another cat which should have been fixed by a responsible cat owner, thus spreading the feral cat population which is a huge problem here. How about working in the garden and stumbling upon buried cat feces, nice way to catch a disease. Or the stench of cat urine coming off the tires of a sprayed parked car. The killing of wild birds at the bird bath I attract them to. I have a 3 meter high privacy fence around my back property, and I spend my money and time on my property so why should I or anyone have to put up with these violations of their rights for the excuse that cats can't be maintained on there owners property. John sorry but I just don't buy this argument. Maybe I will get a large python (which do very well in the climate outside here) and let it roam the neighborhood? After all they are even more difficult than a intelligent cat to keep confined. They may even find a kitty and make a meal out it. Sir, I mean no disrespect . But I think you are wrong on this, and I suspect some of your neighbors would agree if you live in a populated area. Even though they may be quiet to keep the peace. Sincerely, Michael Hunt St. Petersburg Fl [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: Rand Nicholson Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 13:42:23 +0500 Subject: Re: animal pest >Hi All: This was put delicately: > Subject: Oh unwelcome cats > > Irresponsible? I own several cats. Do you want to let me know > how its possible to 'tell' a cat to stay out of somebody else's > backyard? (perhaps that's one of the reasons I like cats!) > > Hello John, > > I can only speak for circumstances here in the States. In the > majority of our urban and suburban area's there are leash laws > that applies both to cats & dogs. In my city of St. Petersburg > this is the case. I could use your same argument for my dog to an > extent. I do realize it isn't as difficult to maintain a dog on > its property than a cat. But none the less, if I just opened the > front door and let the dog out I'm sure he would have no > difficulty going to a neighbors yard and taking a dump in there > garden where he would find a nice odor and then kicking up dirt with his back legs to mark his area.() > ... thus spreading the feral cat population which is a huge problem() > why should I or anyone have to put up with these > violations of their rights for the excuse that cats can't be maintained on there owners property. I have seen too much: My position is that the animal (whatever) is no better than the owner. If one does not know, or will not learn, how to take _care_ of an animal, then one is either incompentent or ignorant. Animals do not ask for humans, but a lot of them end up with them. Only responsible people should have _pets_. If you do not know, or are unable to know, where your animal is _at ALL times_, then you have no business having that animal, under any circumstances. Period. Kind Regards, Rand From Canada, where pets and pests run rampant. Shoot The Owners ... Kill The Problem -- Rand Nicholson Maritime New Brunswick, Canada Zone 5b ################### From: Christer Berglund Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:20:15 +0100 Subject: N. aristolochioides in cultivation? Hi, I wonder how N. aristolochioides fare in cultivation? I know this species is quite new in cultivation, but I guess its been long enough for growers to get an idea of their needs. I'm especially interested in their temperature requirements (same as other highland neps?). I remember some info about a year ago, which said that they had a decent growth rate. Regards, -- Christer Berglund E-mail: christer.berglund@amiga.pp.se ################### From: SelleFrancais1@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 14:03:06 EST Subject: Killing of Animals! No animal should be killed for someone else's enjoyment. Its a sick demented trait that is found in serial killers. Plus who gives you the right to take another life anyway? ################### From: JDPDX@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 15:22:42 EST Subject: Re: Course Peat Moss <> OBC, Oregon Bag Company and Teufels, both of which are wholesale distributors carry coarse peat. OBC is in Canby, OR and Teufels is in NW Portland. It's unlikely you'll find coarse peat in retail outlets. Jeff Dallas Portland, OR ################### From: "Phill Mann" Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:47:33 +0800 Subject: Absent 25/03 - 20/04 Hi All Just to let you know that I will be away for the best part of the next month and will get to all the e-mails then if I haven't answered any yet. Cheers Phill Mann P.O. Box 193 Harvey, 6220 Western Australia philmann@geo.net.au http://geo.net.au/~philmann "Light travels faster than sound" "That's why some people appear bright until they open their mouths" ################### From: Stephen Davis Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 21:18:04 -0800 Subject: Re: animal pest (go toomy web site to see my response) Wow! this is fun! Of course, I'm sure a few people out there wish they were in their graves so they could turn over in them. (Reference to how off topic this discussion has become. I'm not complaining though) In deference to them, you can view my comments in the cp section of my web site. a nice chance to see my site, under construction. http://members.aol.com/stephend7 Happy growing! ################### From: Sunpitcher@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 07:42:16 EST Subject: N. aristolochoides Christer, I have found this plant to be a slow grower. I have two of them about the size of a silver dollar. I don't grow them any cooler than the other Neps-have to work with the temps in the room which, unfortunately, will get over 90 this summer. They are in tank on a porch that has a southern exposure with inadequate air conditioning. I am hoping they will still do well there when it heats up but will try to move them for the summer if they don;t. Right now it gets about 85 and cools to 70 at night. They are also being fertilized along with all the others and respond well to that. Angie Nichols, South Carolina, USA ################### From: Nigel Hurneyman Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:14:01 +0000 Subject: Paul Gardner & Collection of the Month Either the timing's abysmal or Paul Gardner is still committed to CPs, but his Sarracenia collection is featured by the NCCPG as their 'Collection of the Month': http://www.nccpg.org.uk/collecti.htm Apologies to people who have e-mailed me over the past few days - I have been out of action due to the company cold. Regards, NigelH ################### From: "Marcus Rossberg" Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 15:11:39 +0100 Subject: Re: adelae offspring Hi Wayne, your D. adelae is behaving like I've seen it many times before - pretty normal. Your plantlets are definitly D. adelae. The offspring most probably comes from the roots of the old plant. This happens even often when the mature plant is in a normal state of growth, and almost always when it's dying. Take care, Marcus >D. adelae is dying back. I've noticed several tiny rosette sundews >growing in the moss and one seems to be growing from a buried adelae >leaf. Do immature adelae look like rotundifolia? ################### From: bruce dudley Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 08:26:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: Strata Corporation > Topic No. 3 > > Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 09:06:14 -0600 > From: "Strata, Inc." > To: > Subject: To Bruce Dudley & Gilles Lardy, re: > squirrels and killing animals > Message-ID: <001001bf94d9$55fe3380$2149d7d8@strata> I'm so sorry everyone, but, before I slip back into the background and nurse my wounds I have to clear the air I breath! This one was provoked since MY name is singled out. "Strata," (and I suppose I'm speaking to a company. Hiding behind a corporate name makes me more vigilant!) you keep a gun to kill animals. I keep a gun to protect them. My views on your "neighborhood" shooting spree: Wiping out a major preditor, such as coyotes, is STUPID! I hope the rabbits and rodents eat you out of house and home. None of you are talking about managing wildlife!! Again, killing to eat is great. Enjoy. Killing to kill is catastrophic! Who are you people to play God with wildlife? What right do YOU have to kill an animal or plant that I cherish? Mind your manners in my neighborhood! I thought this listserve would be filled with sensible, caring, ecologically-minded, educated people. I shouldn't be surprised to see a bunch of butt-mouths here too. And we think America is a civilized and advanced country?? This will be only when the Native Americans are given back their land! ....why do I bother? Also, DO NOT email my box with hate mail! I won't do that to you. If you wish to complete this conversation take it off the listserve, too! Again, my apoligies to everyone else. This is a very personal topic to me. ################### From: Sylvia De Rooy Date: Fri, 24 Mar 00 09:01:27 -0700 Subject: animals I joined this list believing that by doing so I would be in the company of people who are sensitive to the natural world, who are aware of the destruction that we have done and are doing to our resources and who are aware of the value of all of these resources. Silly me. It would seem that all many of you care about is what's in your backyard, your plants are all that matter, as though those plants exist in a vacuum unaffected by the larger world. Many, probably most, of you would be screaming holy murder if I went to a natural bog and ripped up cp's by the gazillions. But you would seem not to see the contradiction when you advocate the killing of animals or the spraying of poisons. Mr Pagoulatos' "wise use", property rights uber alles view would seem to be closer to the common view on this list than anything. Very sad because his views are nothing short of ignorant and ugly. His saying, "I do espouse the view that animals have no rights whatsoever" is, if nothing else, a view that is utterly ignorant of the complexity of interdependency of all the beings on this earth. I don't know how many people are on this list but, off list posting or no, the hue and cry about his post should choke this list for the next week at least.But it's my guess that, even among those of you who may sense that his post is unacceptable, there will be little response. Is there anyone on this list who understands that the decreasing habitat for cp's is because of the thinking of the Pagoulatos of this world? ################### From: Sean Barry Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 09:31:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: animals On Fri, 24 Mar 2000, Sylvia De Rooy wrote: > Is there anyone on this list who understands that the decreasing habitat > for cp's is because of the thinking of the Pagoulatos of this world? Without engaging in animal rights debates or in defending or attacking individuals or concepts I'm afraid I have to disagree completely with the above. The decreasing habitat of cp's (and everything else in the natural world) is ENTIRELY attributable to the reality of the out-of-control human population increase. Thinking has nothing to do with it--anyone who examines those numbers and their rates of increase and can honestly be optimistic about the future of cp's or anything else in the natural world is certainly not thinking. Sean Barry ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 09:44:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: Animal rights etc Whoah whoah there, folks..... It is very clear that there are passionate views on how to deal with, work with, coexist with animals. But please, remember that this is a CP listserve. Keep your stuff on track. As a professional, I work with invasive species control in wildland settings. I know that issues of animal rights etc are enormous, and never ending. If you want to discuss this, there are many listserves on this topic. I encourage you to keep this list on the CP topic, and to avoid sincere but way off-track topics that can lead to firestorms. Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: "Strata, Inc." Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:18:57 -0600 Subject: CP real-time posting board I ran into this web-site which has a real-time CP posting board. The URL is HTTP://www.paonline.com/mrmiller/frameset.htm On the right hand side there is a list of available links in red lettering. Click on the one titled "CP WWW Message Board". This poor board looks way under-used; One can post a message instantly, respond to it instantly, and everyone can see all the messages! Let's give it some action! Michael Pagoulatos ################### From: Charles Bigelow Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:39:44 -0800 Subject: ultra highlanders in the south I'd like to hear the same thing. I grow some highland nepenthes outdoors in Santa Monica, California, about a mile and a half from the coast, where the winter temps get down to the mid-40's at night in winter, and up to the mid-80's, rarely into 90's, on summer days. Humidity varies greatly, falling to 15% when Santa Ana winds blow in from the desert, but usually it is much higher, especially in winter. The easy growers do just fine, N. ventricosa, N. khasiana, N. alata 'striped', and hybrids like N. x Emmarene. They are all pitchering and trapping insects, even in winter. And some are blooming, so I assume they are content. But I'd like to hear from folks who grow N. villosa, N. rajah, N. hamata, N. edwardsiana, and similar highlanders outside in mild climates. -- Chuck Bigelow dick c tran wrote: >hi y'all, > >Whoever has successfully grown N. villosa >or any ultra-highlands living in the southern parts of the USA. > >I would REALLY like to hear of your methodology. > >Dick ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:24:12 -0800 Subject: Off for a while Hi everyone, Just to let everyone know, I'll be unsubscribing and relatively unavailable for the next couple of weeks as I've taken a new job that starts in April and thus have to find an apartment, move, start work, etc. For anyone that wrote to me regarding plant/seed trades, I will get back to you as soon as everything's settled and the plants are snug in their new home. Happy growing, Chris -- http://www.geocities.com/cteichreb ("Coastal Carnivores", my homepage) http://www.nurserysite.com/clubs/pnwcarnivorous (Pacific Northwest Carnivorous Plant Club) ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 19:00:42 -0500 Subject: Artificial LIGHT, Ultraviolet and plexiglass / glass Hey CPers, I was just discussing artificial terrarium lighting with another CPer. He feels that the glass and plexiglass covers I use on top of my terraria are blocking what he says are ultraviolet wavelengths essential to many plants. He instead uses saran wrap on top of his terraria and is convinced a thin material such as this (or no cover separating the lights from the plants) are crucial to good plant growth. While my plants grow pretty well, I cant help but think I could get better results if I made some changes.... I also recently replaced my bulbs as it had been a while. I've been using 2 cool white, 1 warm white (bathroom and kitchen), 1 "plant and aquarium". whats everyone else using? anyone know of a reason I should change this mixture? its what my buddy phill mann recommends. Anyone have some input on this? Do we know what wavelengths of light CP prefer? Does a glass or plexiglass cover prevent any of this light / specific wavelengths from getting to the plants? Please respond, I think this would make for a great discussion topic! Good growing! Matt Growlist, wantlist and other nonsense... http://www.geocities.com/sundewmatt ################### From: jneps Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 18:45:24 -0700 Subject: Re: animals Hi Sylvia, Yes, I agree with you. However, I hold out precious little hope for the future of humanity. Humans are a primitive species. Very few are evolved enough to exhibit the most exalted of all human characteristics: compassion. For this reason, I believe it very likely that our species will cease to exhist within the next generation or two. Unfortunate? Perhaps, but the fate of mankind will be exactly that which humans collectively deserve. Bottom line is that I have long since given up trying to change the minds of other people. Humans choose to believe whatever they will, in many instances regardless of evidence supporting their beliefs, or to the contrary. As a human, I am no exception, although I do believe that a good education goes a long way toward ameliorating this unhappy circumstance. In any case, although the future will likely not be pleasant for us, I do believe that it will be rather interesting, at least in some sense. Regards, Dr. Jeff Shafer Sylvia De Rooy wrote: > > I joined this list believing that by doing so I would be in the company > of people who are sensitive to the natural world, who are aware of the > destruction that we have done and are doing to our resources and who are > aware of the value of all of these resources. Silly me. It would seem > that all many of you care about is what's in your backyard, your plants > are all that matter, as though those plants exist in a vacuum unaffected > by the larger world. Many, probably most, of you would be screaming holy > murder if I went to a natural bog and ripped up cp's by the gazillions. > But you would seem not to see the contradiction when you advocate the > killing of animals or the spraying of poisons. > Mr Pagoulatos' "wise use", property rights uber alles view would seem to > be closer to the common view on this list than anything. Very sad because > his views are nothing short of ignorant and ugly. His saying, "I do > espouse the view that animals have no rights whatsoever" is, if nothing > else, a view that is utterly ignorant of the complexity of > interdependency of all the beings on this earth. I don't know how many > people are on this list but, off list posting or no, the hue and cry > about his post should choke this list for the next week at least.But it's > my guess that, even among those of you who may sense that his post is > unacceptable, there will be little response. > Is there anyone on this list who understands that the decreasing habitat > for cp's is because of the thinking of the Pagoulatos of this world? ################### From: Wayne Morrow Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 22:54:35 -0600 Subject: Re: Squirrels I vaguely remember that there was a disease spread here in the South from eating squirrel brains. There is also a hunting season for them, so how do those of you who kill them get around it? Don't eat them if you do. :) They are just trying to make a living, and I enjoy watching them in the trees, but Mr. Marshall is also making a living and I must side with him. It seems as though my cats keep them off the ground, but we will see when I put my Sarracenia outside in the bog. Can you destroy game animals when they are destroying your livestock or livelihood? Migratory waterfowl can eat fish from my pool, and I can't kill them. What are these rodents after, anyway? Do they eat the plants or tear them up to get the captured insects? -Wayne Morrow ################### From: Stephen Davis Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 21:56:51 -0800 Subject: Re: ultra highlanders in the south I believe we have no idea just how far we can push these plants beyond the prevailing wisdom. There just haven't been enough of them and they have been so expensive. We simply try to create their "known" enviornment as closely, and blindly as we can. Now that more are becoming more readily available, perhaps some of us can start trying to grow outside their boundaries. I know of one individual that tried a very small Nepenthes rajah outside in the San Francisco bay area (one of the more mild areas at that) and failed. However, it died in one of our 10 year "big freezes." It might have survived in the more common winters, and perhaps, as a more mature plant it would have survived even the "Big Freeze." This year it almost surely would have survived as it was incredibly mild. I am just brain storming here, perhaps someone has some facts to add. As the Darlingtonia californica requires cool roots, while the leaves can survive blistering heat, could it be that some of the Nepenthes' leaves can deal with the cold, as long as it's not so long that their roots get too cold too? Do any Nepenthes grow in bog conditions. The heat held by a bog might create a microclimate that would certainly help. Does anyone think Nepenthes could survive in normal garden soil, or a heavy clay cursed soil that we have in the SF bay area? Worth thinking about? Do I sound like an amateur Barry, or what? :-) Does anyone have an extra flask or two of some promising plants they want to distribute over multiple zones to let people test in their gardens, patios, and decks? I suppose hybrids have the best potential. Stephen Davis http://members.aol.com/stephend7 San Jose, CA USA USDA Zone 9 Sunset Zone 15 - Home of the Giant Redwoods...before we used them to fence in our properties. > >I grow some highland nepenthes outdoors in Santa Monica, California, >about a mile and a half from the coast, where the winter temps get >down to the mid-40's at night in winter, and up to the mid-80's, >rarely into 90's, on summer days. >-----Snip ---- >-- Chuck Bigelow ---Snip---- ################### From: "Steven Venter" Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 08:02:33 +0200 Subject: ICPS Gallery Hi everyone! This is a short reminder: I'm still eagerly awaiting more submissions for the ICPS Online Photo Gallery... the optional theme is "Caught in Action!" although I'll gratefull accept all submissions! I've seen a number of posts here regarding updated and new websites...this is the perfect way to promote your site. Have a look at the submission guidelines here: http://www.carnivorousplants.org/gallery/submissions.html Thanks Steven Venter ICPS Gallery Curator stevev@carnivorousplants.org ################### From: Andrew Bate Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 09:17:27 +0000 Subject: Re: CP real-time posting board On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 12:32:29 -0800 (PST), Michael Pagoulatos wrote: >I ran into this web-site which has a real-time CP posting board. The URL is >HTTP://www.paonline.com/mrmiller/frameset.htm >One can post a message instantly, respond to it instantly, and everyone can >see all the messages! Much like the email CP digest then? ;-) Andrew -- andrew@cpuk.org.uk | A UK Specific Guide http://www.cpuk.org.uk | to Carnivorous Plant Resources ################### From: EdwardK674@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 06:47:58 EST Subject: plexi etc In a message dated 03/25/2000 4:15:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, cp@opus.hpl.hp.com writes: << nyone have some input on this? Do we know what wavelengths of light CP prefer? Does a glass or plexiglass cover prevent any of this light / specific wavelengths from getting to the plants? Please respond, I think this would make for a great discussion topic! >> Lets see if I can remember this correctly. Plexi transmits about 80% of the UV through the plastic. As the Plexi ages the UV transmission decreases with time. The majority of plastics are not very uv transparent although I don't know about saran wrap. (Personally, I doubt it is 100% transparent, but don't really know). Call the consumer question number on the box for better details. Most glass has iron contaminates (or addititves depending on the glass) that adsorbs the UV (at least the UVB portion). This is one of the reasons why spectophotometer sample tubes are made of pure quartz. Absolutly nothing inbetween the plants and the lights is best but if the requirements are anything like reptiles, the flourescent bulb should be within 18 inches of the plants. As for the squirrel problem, seems like someone should breed a cp big enough to take care of the problem. Picture a nepenth or sarracenia with pitchers big enough to do the job;). Actually, I remember someone mentioning wettable sulper in some old posts as a deterrant. Ed ################### From: Wayne Morrow Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 08:57:14 -0600 Subject: Artificial LIGHT, Ultraviolet and plexiglass / glass They taught me in engineering school that glass blocks UV. Heat from inside the greenhouse (from sun shining on benches, pots, etc.) stays inside. Of course as far as conduction of heat goes, you might as well have a hole in the wall as glass. Wayne Morrow ################### From: "Philip Semanchuk" Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 10:19:38 -0500 Subject: Why squirrels dig (was: Re: Squirrels) > I vaguely remember that there was a disease spread here in the South >from eating squirrel brains. Ooog. Sometimes reality is it's own reward. : ) >What are these rodents after, anyway? Do they eat the plants or tear >them up to get the captured insects? The digging I've seen is in the soil; I think they're searching for nuts they think they (or someone else) buried and they like digging in the soft peat/sand mix. The plants suffer from having their roots torn up by the digging but they're not the target of the squirrels' activity. I've considered just putting out pots filled with dirt and no plants in the hopes that they'd satisfy their digging urges in these. I've heard that raccoons, opossums and birds will tear apart traps in order to go after insects, but I've never had a problem with this. Good growing Philip URL du jour: http://www.hungersite.org/ ################### From: "Strata, Inc." Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 09:25:17 -0600 Subject: To Bruce Dudley, red1, Sean Barry and other assorted liberals... Your intolerance of other people's diverse life-styles, cultures, and views is astounding! In addition, although your predictable lack of facts and emotionalism will make you an easy debate victim, I will be glad to teach you a lesson. I found a "general discussion board" on the web where any topic can be discussed, real-time. As soon as this message is received by all I will go to http://subguns.biggerhammer.net/general.cgi and start a string titled "DEBATE WITH ANTI-HUMAN TREE-HUGGERS HERE". My "handle" will be "Michael/Strata". Look for this string and go to town! See 'ya! Sincerely, Michael Pagoulatos ################### From: "Leigh Perkins" Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:48:07 -0000 Subject: Nep Inquiry Hi list I guess this is directed more at the UK growers as it's more a question on local environment (it's not a bout of xenophobia, honest!). I'm thinking about buying a N Spectabilis and want to know about any minimum requirements for good growth that I should be aware of. I recently built a ventilated cool greenhouse and I can protect against frost, I'm pretty sure I can maintain a good level of humidity - but I wonder if this will be enough to maintain the conditions required for this plant to grow well. Any information would be really appreciated. Thanks in advance Leigh PS. The only animal I've had problems with here was a nosy neighbour who reported me to the police for growing illegal substances - he was referring to a large D Dichotoma, and was cautioned for wasting police time. Should I shoot, drown or poison him?? ################### From: Sylvia De Rooy Date: Sat, 25 Mar 00 08:03:22 -0700 Subject: invasive species > But please, remember that this is a CP >listserve. Keep your stuff on track. So Barry, let me get this right, are you saying that the issue of wholesale slaughter of animals to protect plants in someones yard is not pertinent to a cp discussion? Are you saying that someone posting that animals have no rights and can be killed by humans w/ nary a backward glance is not pertinent to the survival of plant life? Somehow I don't think so. Is what you're really saying that you just don't want to see waves made on the list? If that's what you're saying then I would suggest you check out your priority list. Some things cannot be let to slide. That's how the Nazis got by w/ what they did. The bottom line here is that the posting by Pagoulatos is one of the ugliest pieces of work I've had the displeasure of seeing in a long time and once again I say: everyone on the list should be outraged by it.They should also be outraged by his choice to direct his attack personally. Yes, I do agree w/ the poster who spoke to the issue of overpopulation but it must be remembered that at least part of the reason for the gross overpopulation is the thinking that humans have rights that other animals don't. It is that thinking that is leading us into, as Dr. Shafer said, interesting times. So Barr, in spite of your 'there, there' message, I believe that I AM on track. Sylvia De Rooy ################### From: "Doug Barrett and Laura Ratti" Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 09:23:16 -0800 Subject: high output florescent lights I was wondering if anyone knows where I can get high output florescent lights. These are different than the normal fixtures. They are small (~18 inches long) and quite powerful (110 watt power) with 2 thin U shaped bulbs. I saw one at a store that sells mostly halide lights but they can't get them any more. If anyone has used these or knows where I can find them, I'd appreciate hearing about it. I am setting up a terrarium on a shelf for Heliamphora and small Neps. and I can't fit a halide in there. ################### From: jneps Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 10:42:52 -0700 Subject: Re: Nep Inquiry Hi Leigh, I've been growing several clones of N. spectabilis for some time now, with great success. The temperatures in my environment range between 55 and 82 F. I have not experimented outside that range. Humidity is typically between 75 and 100%. Good luck! Jeff Shafer Leigh Perkins wrote: > > Hi list > > I guess this is directed more at the UK growers as it's more a question on > local environment (it's not a bout of xenophobia, honest!). > > I'm thinking about buying a N Spectabilis and want to know about any minimum > requirements for good growth that I should be aware of. I recently built a > ventilated cool greenhouse and I can protect against frost, I'm pretty sure > I can maintain a good level of humidity - but I wonder if this will be > enough to maintain the conditions required for this plant to grow well. Any > information would be really appreciated. > > Thanks in advance > > Leigh > > PS. The only animal I've had problems with here was a nosy neighbour who > reported me to the police for growing illegal substances - he was referring > to a large D Dichotoma, and was cautioned for wasting police time. Should I > shoot, drown or poison him?? ################### From: William Tsun-Yuk Hsu Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 13:05:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: dividing S. purpurea rhizome I noticed a few new growing points on my S. purpurea, and would like to divide the rhizome. However, it came out of dormancy a little faster than I expected, so there are a few little shoots that are maybe 0.5 to 0.75 inches tall. I remember reading that it's better to divide the rhizome before new growth has started. So I'm a bit concerned about cutting up the rhizome at this point. I'd like to hear from CPers who've done this after new growth has started (somewhat), what precautions to take, what procedures seem to work, etc. Thanks! Bill ################### From: gp@crc.softwarekinetics.ca Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:37:44 XSubject: dividing S. purpurea rhizome Want a Pass for 1/2 Off to Americas only on-premise, nationally franchised swing clubs? If so click on this link for more info! http://www.crosswinds.net/~internatswingers/ Thank you and see you soon!!! ################### From: "Dave Evans" Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 22:09:06 -0500 Subject: Re: To Bruce Dudley, red1, Sean Barry and other assorted liberals... > Your intolerance of other people's diverse life-styles, cultures, and views > is astounding! In addition, although your predictable lack of facts and > emotionalism > will make you an easy debate victim, I will be glad to teach you a lesson. > Sincerely, > Michael Pagoulatos Micheal, You and I have the dubious reconition of having been compared to Nazis on the CP list Too bad I think Sylvia is right..... Is there something wrong with people not using up every bit of land, Micheal? There is something about American Politics that I just don't get... The Republicans have strong ties to the religous right. But yet a corner stone belief seems to that it's alright to remake Creation for Man's benefit and ego. God put us in charge of the world, he didn't say for us to kill most everything off. (but I guess it's all right, if it's good for business.) Dave Evans ################### From: Steve Hinkson Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 01:29:35 -0800 Subject: pests My troubles with pests have always tended toward the less intelligent Homo sapiens irritants, too. -- "You can easily judge the character of a person by how he treats those who can do nothing for him or to him." Malcolm Forbes Drop by and see me at : http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/6811 ################### From: "Jason Ashley" Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 05:35:04 -0500 Subject: ??? Swing clubs?? ################### From: "Strata, Inc." Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 07:58:04 -0600 Subject: No Andrew, NOT like the CP Digest... RE: >One can post a message instantly, respond to it instantly, and everyone can > >see all the messages! Michael Pagoulatos. > > Much like the email CP digest then? ;-) > Andrew > andrew@cpuk.org.uk | A UK Specific Guide > http://www.cpuk.org.uk | to Carnivorous Plant Resources > At the CP digest one receives all the messages in an E-mail, then responds by E-mail and waits until an E-mail with their message and responses (from last time) arrives. There is waiting time. At that board, one posts a message which is instantly visible to all who go to that URL, one may post a response at that time which is also instantly visible. There is no waiting time. ;-) ################### From: Charles Bigelow Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 07:18:49 -0800 Subject: D. dichotoma discussion Lee Perkins wrote: >PS. The only animal I've had problems with here was a nosy neighbour who >reported me to the police for growing illegal substances - he was referring >to a large D Dichotoma, and was cautioned for wasting police time. Did the police actually come look at your D. dichtoma? If so, what did they say? What did you say? ################### From: Christer Berglund Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 17:10:21 +0200 Subject: H. ionasii question and thanks (was: N. aristolo...) Hi, I've seen some pics of H. ionasii and find it to be very beautiful, but before I attempt to get my hands on a specimen I would like some info regarding the cultivation of this species. Is it much more difficult than heterodoxa (Gran Sabana)? What about temp. requirements. Is it a fast or slow grower? Finally I'd like to thank Angie N. for the aristolochioides information. Regards, -- Christer Berglund E-mail: christer.berglund@amiga.pp.se ################### From: JWi5770869@aol.com Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 10:31:25 EST Subject: s purpurea division In a message dated 26/03/00 10:19:10 GMT Daylight Time, cp@opus.hpl.hp.com writes: > I noticed a few new growing points on my S. purpurea, and > would like to divide the rhizome. However, it came out of > dormancy a little faster than I expected, so there are > a few little shoots that are maybe 0.5 to 0.75 inches > tall. I remember reading that it's better to divide the > rhizome before new growth has started. > > So I'm a bit concerned about cutting up the rhizome at > this point. I'd like to hear from CPers who've done this > after new growth has started (somewhat), what > precautions to take, what procedures seem to work, etc. > Thanks! > > Bill > Bill, I find that the best way, rather than cut the plant up wholesale, is to gently dig around the plant until you see a growing point that already has its own roots its then fairly easy to detach with a sharp knife. I tend to dust the cut surface with a little yellow sulpher, to prevent any fungal infection and plant up, as per normal. Keep the plant out of direct light for 5ish days and keep well watered. The advantage of doing it this way is that you are not disturbing the 'mother' plant (important if you're taking cuttings off any of the red tubed Flava's) John Wilden Southport Lancs. UK ################### From: JWi5770869@aol.com Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 10:43:03 EST Subject: More cats and squirrels....arrrgh!!!! In a message dated 24/03/00 10:12:52 GMT Daylight Time, cp@opus.hpl.hp.com writes: > Hello John, > > I can only speak for circumstances here in the States. In the > majority of our urban and suburban area's there are leash laws > that applies both to cats & dogs. In my city of St. Petersburg > this is the case. I could use your same argument for my dog to an > extent. I do realize it isn't as difficult to maintain a dog on > its property than a cat. But none the less, if I just opened the > front door and let the dog out I'm sure he would have no > difficulty going to a neighbors yard and taking a dump in there Blah blah blah blah...... Mike I've just come back from a short holiday to find that you posted your (what I thought was a private) rant to me on the listserve. I hope it makes you feel a little better demonstrating to the list what a towering intellect you possess!! (shame about the ego though!!). John "responsible keeper of cats,despite what Mike Hunt thinks(!)" Wilden Southport Lancs. UK ################### From: Harwoodpa@aol.com Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 12:22:12 EST Subject: Re: N.aristolocioides Hi Christer and all I enquired how other growers were "getting on" with N.aristolocioides about a year or so ago now.I'm finding it quite an average grower in my conditions here in the U.K.(email me if you need more details ) I remember at the time my pal Jeff Schafer,from Colorado in the States also stating that he had similar results with tissue cultured material. As this is such an exciting new discovery in the world of Nepenthes and is so vulnerable in it's wild habitat,how about a few of us getting together and documenting our culture results of this amazing little plant?.I'm sure it would be a valuable referance work in the pages of C.P.N. and who knows? one day this kind of information may prevent this little "gem" from extinction !!!!! If anyone would like to help me with this, please email me privately. Kind regards Paul Harwood (Nottingham U.K.) Harwoodpa@aol.com ################### From: Harwoodpa@aol.com Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 12:22:12 EST Subject: Re:Nep inquiry Dear Leigh I also grow several clones of N.spectabilis and find it a relatively easy grower. Temps. have been down to 5oC at night this winter in my greenhouse with no adverse effects. Regards Paul Harwood (Nottingham U.K.) ################### From: "Philip Semanchuk" Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 12:38:20 -0500 Subject: S. flava getting too big? Hi, I have an S. flava that is getting pretty big; it now has about 20 flower spikes on it. I repotted it about 2 or 3 years ago when I got it from a friend (you know who you are -- thanks!). I recall hearing sometime ago on the list that Sarracenia benefit from being divided every so often and that there is a danger of the crowns rotting from the core outwards if they get too big. My instinct tells me this is not a concern (at least for my plant) but I'm always grateful for advice from the vast College of CP Knowledge. Comments appreciated! I can't wait to see all these flowers in bloom. Philip URL du jour: http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Internet/Etiquette/ ################### From: "Strata, Inc." Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 13:11:16 -0600 Subject: Sylvia and Bruce.... ....how about if we agree to dissagree and accept the fact that different people hold opposing views (gasp!) and are entitled to them (1st Amendment, you know?). I gave you the opportunity to debate me on a public forum (to avoid using this CP listserv), to which you responded with harrassing E-mails to my personal box (Bruce, you even contacted my employer, who's attorney told him that YOUR behavior constitutes harrassment and stalking, since YOU initiated it). I even deleted your E-mail addresses to protect your privacy, on the public forum, leaving only your messages. If you want to debate you know where to go and post a message. I am always ready and willing. If not, let's give it a rest. To the many posters who sent me supporting E-mails I thank you. It is always good to meet people who think. Michael Pagoulatos ################### From: John Brittnacher Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 12:05:55 -0800 Subject: ICPS Meeting 2000 Update The ICPS Meeting 2000 Update pages on the ICPS web site http://www.carnivorousplants.org/ have been updated with the latest information on the conference at the Fort Mason Center in San Francisco, California, Friday, June, 16th to Sunday, June 18th, 2000. There is information on lodging on the web site now. Also I have found http://bayarea.citysearch.com/ http://bayarea.citysearch.com/San_Francisco/Visitors_Getaways/Hotels/ http://san-francisco.hotels-at-a-discount.com/index.html to have useful information about the San Francisco and places to stay. We need entries for the photo contest. Look through your old snaps. Take some new ones. There will be prizes in the following six categories: * Best Carnivorous Plant in Habitat * Best C.P. In Cultivation * Best Close-up or Macro-photography/Micro-photography * Best Insect/Animal Interaction * Best Original Art * Best Photo of CP Person/People or plant/person interaction Honorable mentions for: * Best cultivated display or grouping * Best plant in a decorative pot or planter * Rarest/most beautiful species or cultivar * Best Photo from a person under 16 * Funniest Photo/Original Art Sponsors have generously donated prizes in the form of gift certificates to CP nurseries, and memberships to the ICPS for the winners. ################### From: Andrew Bate Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 21:14:36 +0100 Subject: Re: No Andrew, NOT like the CP Digest... On Sun, 26 Mar 2000 06:14:54 -0800 (PST), "Strata, Inc." wrote: >At the CP digest one receives all the messages in an E-mail, then responds >by E-mail and waits until an E-mail with their message and responses >(from last time) arrives. >There is waiting time. I guess you haven't found the way of receiving single messages rather than the digest option then... >At that board, one posts a message which is instantly visible to all who go >to that URL, one may post a response at that time which is also instantly >visible. There is no waiting time. ;-) Why don't you go and use that one instead then if you like it so much? :-) Andrew -- andrew@cpuk.org.uk | A UK Specific Guide http://www.cpuk.org.uk | to Carnivorous Plant Resources ################### From: "Hideka Kobayashi" Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 14:25:27 CST Subject: Just a little more on squirrels Sorry for farther continuing on this topic. <from eating squirrel brains. Ooog. Sometimes reality is it's own reward. : )>> If I remember correctly, there were cases (not just one) that people suspected of the possible link between squirrels and the human version of Mad Cow disease (I know the name, but cannot spell. It is German) In KY. So I can safely conclude that squirrels are the source of all evil (I am not suggesting killing them or whatever. Continue to read). I am not sure 100%, eating brains of squirrels had something to do with these cases. A similar disease was found in New Guinea sometime ago. Indigenous people had a tradition of eating brain of deceased. <> No, you should not. Just keep select breed for a larger trap (I would suggest Venus Fly Trap or Sundews) so that one day he can get caught in front of you. Ah, sweet revenge. You can use a mutagen, but I am not sure how effective it will be. Have you read about this giant CP in Madagascar? I know it is fake, but *supposedly* people were sacrificed in this manner. I also read about this novel in which a carnivorous orchid traps the main character. Hopefully, squirrels will be also taken care of this way. Let *Mother Nature* take care of those pests. Hideka ################### From: Marianne Perdomo Machin Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 21:45:24 +0100 Subject: Re: Why squirrels dig (was: Re: Squirrels) Hi! I don't have any experience with squirrels but I have had problems when one of our cats liked a particular area of the garden too much... So has anyone tried placing smallish stones (but heavy enough so they can not move them easily) in between the plants so that it will be harder for the squirrels to dig? It worked with the cats... but then they had other places to go to. > The digging I've seen is in the soil; I think they're searching for nuts > they think they (or someone else) buried and they like digging in the soft > peat/sand mix. The plants suffer from having their roots torn up by the > digging but they're not the target of the squirrels' activity. I've > considered just putting out pots filled with dirt and no plants in the hopes > that they'd satisfy their digging urges in these. To those that think that wild animals have no right to the land they and their ancestors have long inhabited, I ask you to think about the loss of CP habitat due to draining of marshes, ditches, etc. because they serve "no purpose" and breed mosquitoes and other harmful creatures. We have to pay a price if we want to keep some of our wilderness. To me that might mean I should not go live in the middle of a marsh or even not enter at all dangerous-bear territories. After all, we have a lot of space for ourselves while they have little left. They deserve some respect and I am prepared to pay that price, with no regrets at all. Best regards, Marianne ################### From: "Paul McCullough" Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 16:46:28 -0500 Subject: Spring Cleaning... While spring cleaning the old Klimagro terrarium today, I discovered that a nepenthes tendril had poked down into one of my sarracenia purpurea traps! I decided to save the poor trap and extricated it. Much to my surprise, the nepenthes' trap had grown to nearly full (though color faded) maturity inside the digestive fluids of the sarr pitcher!!! Figuring that it's probably very rare for such a thing to happen, I quickly snapped off three shots- one with the trap in trap, one as it's being saved from the trap, and the last after being removed. These three pix can be downloaded at the following: http://members.home.net/paulmcc/nepphoto.zip Please let me know what you think of these photos, and if any of you have ever seen this happen before. (Probably, but I was really taken aback... the nep pitcher was completely "in the drink" in the sarr pitcher!) Cheers, Paul My New Webpage URLs: -------------------- 3D Animation World: http://members.home.net/paulmcc Carnivorous Plant Page: http://members.home.net/paulmcc/carniv.htm Movie Reviews: http://members.home.net/paulmcc/movies.htm [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Carl Strohmenger (HSC)" Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 19:04:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Spring Cleaning... Pardon my suspicious mind, but I looked at the calendar today and noticed that April 1st (aka April Fool's Day) is just a week away. Hmmmm - Carl ################### From: "Hideka Kobayashi" Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 22:52:56 CST Subject: Grow up! So Silvia, let me get this right, are you saying that the issue of wholesale slaughter of animals to protect plants in someones [sic] yard is not pertinent to a cp discussion? Are you saying that someone posting that animals have rights and can be killed by humans w/ nary a backward glance is not pertinent to the survival of plant life? Somehow I don't think so. Is what you're really saying that your immature view on just don't want to see waves made on the list? If that's what you're saying then I would suggest you check out your priority list. Some things cannot be let to slide. The bottom line here is that the posting by you is one of the ugliest pieces of work I've had the displeasure of seeing in a long time and once again I say: everyone on the list should be outraged by it.They [sic] should also be outraged by her choice to direct her attack personally. Yes, I do agree w/ the poster who spoke to the issue of overpopulation but it must be remembered that at least part of your reason for the gross overpopulation is the thinking that humans do not have rights that other animals always do. It is that thinking that is leading us into, as Dr. Shafer said, interesting times. So Silvia, in spite of your 'I am right, you are WRONG' message, I believe that you are NOT on track. Stop accusing the majority of people senselessly. But please, remember that this is a CP listserve. Keep your stuff on track. Hideka I left all the mistakes that spell check pointed out. Therefore, I am not responsible for misspelling and etc. ################### From: "David P Banks" Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 18:56:42 +1000 Subject: Nepenthes Ripening Times NEPENTHES Do any readers know the variation in ripening times for seed capsules in Nepenthes? Does this also vary between species and time of year? Thanks in advance. ******************************************** David P. Banks Hills District Orchids Seven Hills NSW 2147 Australia Phone (02) 9674-4720 Fax (02) 9686-3303 Editor "Australian Orchid Review" ******************************************** ################### From: Nigel Hurneyman Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:14:36 +0100 Subject: Re: Marston Hi Barry, I'm reasonably certain that the name "Marston Exotics" has been purchased by a UK Garden Centre chain called Wyevale and that Paul Gardner is now their employee. Wyevale have said that they intend to stock a small range of Marston-sourced carnivores throughout their chain. However I get the impression that Paul & Jackie are keeping a private collection - whether they intend to sell any of it off or run it as a small sideline I have no idea. Regards, NigelH ################### From: Phil Hanley Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 12:51:06 +0100 XSubject: Re: Marston >Topic No. 17 >Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 19:04:42 -0500 (EST) >From: "Carl Strohmenger (HSC)" >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: Re: Spring Cleaning... >Message-ID: >Pardon my suspicious mind, but I looked at the calendar today and noticed >that April 1st (aka April Fool's Day) is just a week away. Hmmmm >- Carl Don't tell me that this animal debate was just a warm up !! :-) - Phill ################### From: Bryan and Leslie Lorber Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:13:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Grow up! Please take this issue elsewhere!!!!! We have all had enough, I'm quite sure!! Bryan Charlotte, Vermont Hideka Kobayashi wrote: > So Silvia, let me get this right, are you saying that the issue of wholesale > slaughter of animals to protect plants in someones [sic] yard is not > pertinent to a cp discussion? Are you saying that someone posting that > animals have rights and can be killed by humans w/ nary a backward glance is > not pertinent to the survival of plant life? Somehow I don't think so. Is > what you're really saying that your immature view on just don't want to see > waves made on the list? If that's what you're saying then I would suggest > you check out your priority list. Some things cannot be let to slide. The > bottom line here is that the posting by you is one of the ugliest pieces of > work I've had the displeasure of seeing in a long time and once again I say: > everyone on the list should be outraged by it.They [sic] should also be > outraged by her choice to direct her attack personally. Yes, I do agree w/ > the poster who spoke to the issue of overpopulation but it must be > remembered that at least part of your reason for the gross overpopulation is > the thinking that humans do not have rights that other animals always do. It > is that thinking that is leading us into, as Dr. Shafer said, interesting > times. So Silvia, in spite of your 'I am right, you are WRONG' message, I > believe that you are NOT on track. Stop accusing the majority of people > senselessly. But please, remember that this is a CP listserve. Keep your > stuff on track. > > Hideka > > I left all the mistakes that spell check pointed out. Therefore, I am not > responsible for misspelling and etc. ################### From: "Steven M. Findak" Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:58:22 -0500 Subject: cats and squirrels and everything else >From a long time Lurker Having had problems with cats and squirrels digging in my garden I have used brambles or rose stems as a natural barb wire. Cut small lengths of the most dangerous looking pricker bush you can find; here in Cleveland Ohio USA that would be multi-flora rose; and lay it on top of where the digging is occurring. Animals are not dumb and they soon learn that its easier to dig elsewhere; where they will not get pricked by the thorns of the plant. The only down side is it does not look aesthetic and you run the risk of getting pricked yourself. [V-Card file steven.findak.vcf deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: Sunpitcher@aol.com Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 09:02:16 EST Subject: H. ionasii Christer, I find ionasii to be intolerably slow. I have had a clone of this plant that I have been growing for 3 years and it is still has pitchers only 2 inches tall. It tends to grow sideways instead of up. Meaning, it makes new crowns instead of mature pitchers. It responds favorably to fresh medium and grows more vigorously for a time when the medium is changed. The only reason I haven't given up on this plant is because I maintain belief that one day in the distant future it will grow like a monster with the ermergence of the first mature pitcher. That is what finally happened with my clone of H. nutans. But then again, maybe this is just a dog clone. I do have another clone that is a little quicker to grow but doesn't look much like the one I have been talking about. I look forward to input from other growers. I can grow the other species very well. Maybe they have discovered a quirk in the ionasii that I haven't :) Angie Nichols, South Carolina, USA ################### From: Sylvia De Rooy Date: Mon, 27 Mar 00 07:05:21 -0700 Subject: more strata I am sorry not to let this go but since Michael is hurling about accusations of harrassment I thought the list should see some of what myself and Bruce have been subjected to: When I turned Michael down (on posting to the discussion) here is what I got: >Just what I thought: a typical liberal, all fuzzy-feelings and no facts! >HA, HA, HA, HA!!.. >You are pathetic!.. When I then told him to deal with his anger elsewhere he said: >Subject: Come to the board and support your arguments baby... >Sent: 3/24/20 7:23 PM >Received: 3/26/00 8:13 AM >From: Strata, Inc., strata@flash.net >To: Sylvia De Rooy, red1@humboldt1.com > >....but you don't have any, do you?!?! You are intellectually unarmed, >Sylvia! I am not angry; >you are! I am having fun! I have a bunch of E-mails from people who are >waiting to whip your butt (verbally!) on the board! COME ON baby! Below is what he sent to Bruce: >You are delussional, Bruce! YOU are the coward. But like a typical >liberal, you have no arguments that you can support with facts! Only fuzzy >feelings! > >I set up the debate on a public forum (to let the listserv free for CP >postings only), where you can present your side. I even deleted your E-mail >addresses to protect your privacy. WHERE ARE YOU? Are you too lost for >words to come to the board and present your case?!?! > >You are pathetic.... > >Michael I would, privately, like to hear from the many people that Michael claims emailed him. ################### From: "Marie-louise Flannery" Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 17:27:24 +0100 Subject: African violet/Saintpaulia To who it may concern, I am a student at Nottingham University and i am growing Saintpaulia ionantha cv. emi and miho in tissue culture. I found your address on the web and was wondering if you would have any more specific information regarding the growth conditions of these cultivars both in vivo and in vitro? Or if not, if there is anyone you are in contact with that could provide me with useful information. I look forward to hearing from you with any information you may have. Kind Regards Marie-Louise Flannery ################### From: "Hideka Kobayashi" Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 11:20:59 CST Subject: It would be nice if you directly posted your message in stead of sending me a private message, Sylvia. I just used your message as a template for my expression of my opinion. I made minor changes, such as removing 'not' and changing some adjectives. If my message does not make a sense, could it be because of the original message? Obviously, 'someones' is not a correct spelling for someone's. Or is it really? Another [sic] simply indicates there is no space between a period and the beginning of the next sentence. My main point is, I do not think accusing the majority of us ("All you care....") in public without sufficient evidence is very wise. You also accused somebody because you thought he personally attacked you (maybe he did), but you did the same thing. Name calling is not very clever, either. Just don't assume you are right simply because some supported your view point. I did not respond initially because I was annoyed by your immature attitude. Need I say more? I appreciate it if you do not send me a 'personal' message next time. Hideka I am sorry but your posting to the CP list makes no sense whatsoever. In addition the places that you have marked "sic" are not mis-spellings. What is your point? Based on several emails I've received no one can figure out what you are trying to say. Sylvia De Rooy So Silvia, let me get this right, are you saying that the issue of wholesale slaughter of animals to protect plants in someones [sic] yard is not pertinent to a cp discussion? Are you saying that someone posting that animals have rights and can be killed by humans w/ nary a backward glance is not pertinent to the survival of plant life? Somehow I don't think so. Is what you're really saying that your immature view on just don't want to see waves made on the list? If that's what you're saying then I would suggest you check out your priority list. Some things cannot be let to slide. The bottom line here is that the posting by you is one of the ugliest pieces ofwork I've had the displeasure of seeing in a long time and once again I say: everyone on the list should be outraged by it.They [sic] should also beoutraged by her choice to direct her attack personally. Yes, I do agree w/the poster who spoke to the issue of overpopulation but it must be remembered that at least part of your reason for the gross overpopulation is the thinking that humans do not have rights that other animals always do. It is that thinking that is leading us into, as Dr. Shafer said, interesting times. So Silvia, in spite of your 'I am right, you are WRONG' message, I believe that you are NOT on track. Stop accusing the majority of people senselessly. But please, remember that this is a CP listserve. Keep your stuff on track. Hideka I left all the mistakes that spell check pointed out. Therefore, I am not responsible for misspelling and etc. ################### From: bruce dudley Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:01:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: thanks for the support! To all of us who enjoy the conservation of carnivorous plants and the land they still live on: I must say that I am happy to finally see more supporters of my "militant" views on conservation of carnivorous plants, and animal life. Such support for the value of all animals and plants for sustained ecosystems such as boglands and coastal wetlands is critical so that we don't loose the last wild flytrap populations, the last wild red wolf (reintroduced in my part of NC), or the last condor. Truly, wanton rape of our lands and the subsequent loss of animals because they live in conflict with human ignorance must certainly stop (remember buffalo and passenger pigeons?). I realize that acres of pitcher plants will never be seen in the wild again. I accept that the mass extinctions we are seeing are due in part to my misuse of resources that make my life easier. I am certainly most grateful that my Native American mother instilled a deep appreciation for all life--not just human--into my soul. It is still a hope of mine to see all mankind agree to use noninvasive measures to control animal species which have abundantly procreated. Poisons used to control plants and animals are taken up by other animals and plants/soils/waterways and the long-term pollution can not be measured by the death of the one animal or plant! It goes much farther than that. I worry that someone's child could be poisoned by an accidental consumption. I worry that someone's pure-bred pet (costing thousands of dollars) might die for eating a poisoned rat, squirrel, or bird you all speak about. I worry that the agricultural wastes flushing into our coastal areas are killing off our coastland plants (carnivorous plants) and that the nurserys which breed our favorite seafoods and fish are unable to sustain the quantity we take from the ocean. Please everyone, do not ignore your responsibilities to conserve and preserve whenever possible. Thank you. That's all I really had to say in the first place. Kill as you please, but don't do so around me. Dispose of the animals so that no other animal can be hurt by it. Primarily, eat it when possible. Otherwise let it live as it will let you live. Share the world or you will live in a bleak world inhabited by rats, cockroaches, and other humans! Hearing what some of you think makes that possibility a truly sickening one.... Bruce ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 09:55:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: Animals, Nazis, and me Hi Sylvia I stand by my statement that the animal-rights/plant-rights discussion has gotten far off track what this listserve is about. I am not declaring that either side is right or wrong, rather, it has descended into vitriolic name-calling and has lost its usefulness and relevance. Both sides of the argument are getting ugly, and very unhelpful. > you check out your priority list. Some things cannot be let to slide. > That's how the Nazis got by w/ what they did. Ah yes, here I am, siding with the Nazis. See my comments above. Anyone who wishes to discuss this with me further can do so directly, and not on the list. ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org ################### From: Nigel Hurneyman Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:07:11 +0100 Subject: Re: Nep Inquiry Hi Leigh, Congratulations on being visited by a policeman bright enough to tell the difference between D dichotoma and illegal substances. I hope you took the opportunity to snare him into our hobby by giving him a spare capensis or spatulata! You should be able to grow illegal substances in perfect safety now - your neighbour will be too embarrassed to complain again and the police won't take any complaint seriously. I find cat-lovers hard to understand. Recently a man was found to have been trapping cats that came into his garden, and driving miles into the countryside before releasing them. The local cat lobby was outraged because cats are wild and therefore have the right to roam in whichever garden they want, but it's wrong to release the cats in the countryside because they're not wild and therefore can't fend for themselves!!!!!!! NigelH ################### From: JWi5770869@aol.com Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 14:31:51 EST Subject: Man-eater In a message dated 27/03/00 10:22:37 GMT Daylight Time, cp@opus.hpl.hp.com writes: > No, you should not. Just keep select breed for a larger trap (I would > suggest Venus Fly Trap or Sundews) so that one day he can get caught in > front of you. Ah, sweet revenge. You can use a mutagen, but I am not sure > how effective it will be. > > Have you read about this giant CP in Madagascar? I know it is fake, but ALL Cp's can eat nosey neighbours, you just have to remember to chop the neighbour up small enough.......... John Wilden Southport Lancs. UK ################### From: "Andy Falshaw" Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:21:23 +1200 Subject: pitcher in pitcher... (was paul's spring cleaning) Paul I've had a nep where a tendril went into another pitcher, then the new pitcher formed inside the old one. It was quite healthy when I pulled it out. Kind of wierd as you'd think the swelling and opening of a new pitcher would be triggered by light Andy ################### From: Paul McCullough Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 19:41:14 -0500 Subject: RE: Spring Cleaning > Pardon my suspicious mind, but I looked at the calendar today and noticed > that April 1st (aka April Fool's Day) is just a week away. Hmmmm > > - Carl > > No, Carl- it's no April Fool's joke! This really happened... what I can't decide is whether the sarr was eating the nep, or the nep was eating off the sarr's plate- so to speak! :) Cheers, Paul -- My New Webpage URLs: -------------------- 3D Animation World: http://members.home.net/paulmcc Carnivorous Plant Page: http://members.home.net/paulmcc/carniv.htm Movie Reviews: http://members.home.net/paulmcc/movies.htm ################### From: Sylvia De Rooy Date: Mon, 27 Mar 00 20:26:53 -0700 Subject: apology I apologize to the list. I should not have taken the bait and posted my last post. ################### From: FOODBAG@aol.com Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 23:58:01 EST Subject: Charles Brewer I would like to e-mail Mr. Charles Brewer, but lost his e-mail address with the old computer. If anyone can help me, especially, Charles, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks, Joe Griffin Lincoln, NE ################### From: FOODBAG@aol.com Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 00:02:28 EST Subject: mites Would little brown pin-head dots on my Cephalotus that move fast enough to easily notice and squish with no effort be spider mites? "Savage Garden" indicates that they appear when it's dry, but the tank they are in is extremely humid. Thanks, Joe Griffin Lincoln, NE ################### From: Walter Hafner Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:41:18 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Godwin's law Sylvia wrote: > you check out your priority list. Some things cannot be let to slide. > That's how the Nazis got by w/ what they did. Godwin's law. You lose! Explanation of Godwin's law to the uninformed: I. The Basics 1. What is Godwin's Law? Godwin's Law is a natural law of Usenet named after Mike Godwin (godwin@eff.org) concerning Usenet "discussions". It reads, according to the Jargon File: As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. ... ... ... See: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/legends/godwin/ In short: STOP THIS SILLY NAME_CALLING FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE! And no: In the meantime I don't give a damn who's right! -Walter ################### From: "Carl Strohmenger (HSC)" Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 05:48:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: apology, squirrels, etc. Please, everybody interested in pursuing this topic, Please take it off list. Let's get back to CPs. - Carl ################### From: "David P Banks" Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 22:49:03 +1000 Subject: Disappointed (+ TV show) I must admit to being a touch disappointed about the complete lack of replies on the list regarding my two recent postings on Nepenthes. Nothing at all was posted on the digest - yet I see all this irrelevent crap and name-calling. I received only one private reply (Thanks Rob!) yet I thought these might be topics of interest. The first was on the ratios of males to females in Nepenthes species (and hybrids for that matter). The second was on the seed maturation times on Nepenthes species. Surely these topics (on carnivorous plants after all) should be of more interest than point scoring public battles. Onto another more pleasant subject. For Australian readers, I taped a segment on Nepenthes for the new Channel 7 Show "Morning Shift". It only goes for 4 minutes, but you will see some nice plants. It will be shown between 9-11am on Friday 31st March. Set those videos!! ******************************************** David P. Banks Hills District Orchids Seven Hills NSW 2147 Australia Phone (02) 9674-4720 Fax (02) 9686-3303 Editor "Australian Orchid Review" & "The Orchadian". (And very keen Nepenthes grower!) ################### From: Sylvia De Rooy Date: Tue, 28 Mar 00 06:45:07 -0700 Subject: Re: mites Mites are extremely tiny, often they need to be tapped onto a piece of white paper and then put under a bright light to be seen. After they land on the paper it takes a minute or so for them to start moving again. They do not like humid conditions. ################### From: "John Orr" Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 09:54:04 -0500 Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: (Howard J. Wu L.Ac) Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 8:10:55 +0000 Subject: Animal Rights Those who don't believe in the killing of animals should join an vegetarian plants news list. Howard J. Wu Bishop Ca. mrwu@qnet.com ################### From: Tom Massey Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:02:54 -0500 Subject: RE: Disappointed (+ TV show) David: I failed to reply only because my information is largely personal observation of a rather limited sort. As far as male/female ratios go, I think the current idea is that 60-80% of the plants around in cultivation seem to be male. I haven't heard if this distribution occurs in the wild at the same rate. As for maturation of the seed pods, I am sure that as with everything else, "it depends". For something a little more concrete, it seems to me that my Neps tend to bloom in the summer and continue fairly late into the year. The seed pods seem to take quite a while to mature. As a matter of fact, two days ago I just pulled some pods from a N. raff. that was pollinated in the fall. These had been left on until they began to dry and split. I have a N. mirabillis that has seed pods of just about the same age that are still green. I keep thinking that they will begin to dry out shortly. Tom in Fl. On Tuesday, March 28, 2000 7:53 AM, David P Banks [SMTP:dpbanks@ozemail. com.au] wrote: > I must admit to being a touch disappointed about the complete lack of > replies on the list regarding my two recent postings on Nepenthes. Nothing > at all was posted on the digest - yet I see all this irrelevent crap and > name-calling. I received only one private reply (Thanks Rob!) yet I thought > these might be topics of interest. > > The first was on the ratios of males to females in Nepenthes species (and > hybrids for that matter). > > The second was on the seed maturation times on Nepenthes species. > > Surely these topics (on carnivorous plants after all) should be of more > interest than point scoring public battles. > > Onto another more pleasant subject. > > For Australian readers, I taped a segment on Nepenthes for the new Channel 7 > Show "Morning Shift". It only goes for 4 minutes, but you will see some nice > plants. It will be shown between 9-11am on Friday 31st March. Set those > videos!! > > ******************************************** > David P. Banks > Hills District Orchids > Seven Hills NSW 2147 Australia > Phone (02) 9674-4720 Fax (02) 9686-3303 > Editor "Australian Orchid Review" & "The Orchadian". > (And very keen Nepenthes grower!) > > ################### From: "William M. Gorum, Jr." Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 10:43:40 -0600 Subject: Re: H. ionasii I am also having problems growing H. ionasii. I've had mine for nearly 6 or 8 months now, and I've seen no increase in pitcher size. Similar to Angie's H. ionasii, my particular plant will produce new crowns of pitchers, but will not grow larger pitchers. I've never grown any other species of Heliamphora before, and this H. ionasii is the only Heliamphora species I'm currently keeping. Are all of the other species such slow growers as well? Is there some little secret to keeping this beautiful plants? Inquiring minds want to know. :) TTYL! Will Gorum wgorum@bellsouth.net ################### From: Michael King Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 12:07:18 -0500 Subject: Marston Hi Barry, I'm reasonably certain that the name "Marston Exotics" has been purchased by a UK Garden Centre chain called Wyevale and that Paul Gardner is now their employee. Wyevale have said that they intend to stock a small range of Marston-sourced carnivores throughout their chain. However I get the impression that Paul & Jackie are keeping a private collection - whether they intend to sell any of it off or run it as a small sideline I have no idea. Regards, NigelH Dear Nigel,Dear Barry, One of the original partners of Marston Exotics before this situation happened was also a director of Wyevale, and they are the owners of the site. Most of the nursery is given over to cultivating bamboo for the garden centre chain, however, Paul & Jackie Gardner still have a national collection of Sarracenia there, and they will continue a small mail order business. As far as I know, they will be at Hampton Court this summer. Meanwhile, as you mentioned, Paul is in Wyevale's employment. I hope that clears it up! Best Regards Mike King See my Carnivorous Plant Website: http://www.soft.net.uk/newcombe/ssar/homepage.htm ################### From: "Strata, Inc." Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:47:30 -0600 Subject: Nepenthes "Isle de France" Last weekend, I went by a friend's greenhouse and she gave me a cutting from a huge N. "Isle de France", with two gorgeous pitchers on it. She then left in a hurry to go on vacation, so I can't ask the following question: Should I cut the ends of the leaves (with the pitchers on them) as one book says, or is that not necessary? I just put the cutting in medium. Thanks, Michael Pagoulatos ################### From: Randall Palmer Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 12:41:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: USF Venuses ---- > April 9 and 10 USF, in Tampa,US is having their anual Spring Plant Sale. > At Tampa Bay Carnivorous Club's booth we'll have the healthiest I have > work with, Venus Fly Traps, transplanted from tissue culture to 4" pots. > They are without plastic cover, Red Dragons. Only foliage spraying them > with the Uncle Major concoction except at the initial transplant, (I put > some around the roots to start the root hairs.) But by pouring my salt > water into the starter trays twice making their roots wet, no root rot > plus no root bitting bugs. After transplant, in the middle of Feb., the > trays were covered untill the first day of Spring. They have been under a > patio roof outside. We will have nice looking napenthes, and pings too. > Get there early they'll go fast. > Still haven't figured how to get the traps to stand up without the > plastic cups overhead. > > Randy Palmer > sfdzeqe0@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us > > > ------- End of Forwarded Message > > ################### From: "Malouf, Perry" Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:08:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Nepenthes "Isle de France" Michael Pagoutalos asked about rooting a cutting of N. x 'Ile de France'. >....Should I cut the ends of the leaves (with the >pitchers on them) as one book says, or is that not > necessary? I just put the cutting in medium. You're going to get a lot of different opinions on this one, for sure. :-) I have N. x 'Ile de France' and it's a wonderful grower, very forgiving. Whenever I root a Nepenthes cutting,I always remove the distal half of each leaf. I've had very good results in general, and a lot of my established cuttings are given away on this listserver. Removing half of each leaf is supposed to reduce the amount of water lost via transpiration. Since the cutting starts out with no roots, and therefore no way to take in water, it's a good idea to reduce water loss. The cutting should be kept in high humidity as well. There have been plenty of postings here, where people have described how they root Nepenthes without removing half of each leaf. They report good results also. The integrity of the plant material, and the type of Nepenthes, both play a role in this. Like I said, 'Ile de France' is very forgiving so I suppose you cutting will root even though you haven't trimmed the leaves. Regards, Perry Malouf ################### From: "Paul McCollom" Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 12:54:45 PST Subject: Introduction I have been growing CPs since 1964. Currently, I am growing a few temperate pitcher plants, Drosera, and Dionaea out of doors. I grow Mexican butterworts, highland Nepenthes, and Cephalotus in a small greenhouse. Also had success with Heliamphora in the greenhouse, but they died from neglect last year, while I was away on vacation. I would appreciate info on the upcoming ICPS meeting in San Francisco... just re-joined ICPS and hope to hear before June. Regards, Paul ################### From: Ccp108@aol.com Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:56:49 EST Subject: USF Spring Sale spring Sale is 8th and 9th, Sat. and Sun. not 9th and 10th. as previously reported. A little piece of pure charcoal or charcoal dust in the trap works almost as good as a bug in the spring and fall when Venus is active. RP, alias Cousin Clem ################### From: Prem Subrahmanyam Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 17:02:20 -0500 Subject: Re: flytraps >Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 10:01:05 -0800 (PST) >From: bruce dudley > >...Such support for >the value of all animals and plants for sustained >ecosystems such as boglands and coastal wetlands is >critical so that we don't loose the last wild flytrap >populations... Speaking of "wild" flytraps...interestingly enough, they appear to be quite amenable to the climate in northern Florida. In a bog not too far from my home, some individuals apparently introduced a few flytraps many years ago, and they now grow there by the hundreds (if not thousands) within a less-than-acre sized area. I have a few specimens from this bog growing happily outdoors year-round in my yard in a container that's kept moist (via the pan-under-the-pot method). But before someone goes and castigates me for removing "wild" flytraps from the local bog, they're technically an "exotic" species, and legally should be destroyed if discovered...although I doubt that anyone who knows of this colony would ever have the heart to carry out the letter of the law. If there were ever a severe threat to flytrap populations in NC, then send us samples of wild flytraps and we can make sure that they will never go extinct, living happily in the wilds of north Florida (there are plenty of other boggy areas that could support flytraps, along with the already indigenous Sarracenia, Drosera, Pinguicula and Utricularia that already make FL their home). It's interesting being able to walk outdoors and see all these natural (and "exotic") wonders in their natural haunts... ---Prem ################### From: "Michael Hunt" Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 17:50:53 -0500 Subject: Re: flytraps ----- Original Message ----- To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 5:07 PM > >> But before someone goes and castigates me for removing > "wild" flytraps from the local bog, they're technically an "exotic" > species, and legally should be destroyed if discovered...although > I doubt that anyone who knows of this colony would ever have the > heart to carry out the letter of the law. Prem, Many people know of these bogs. They are listed in the vascular flora guide of Florida. Known locations are from 2 different counties, with the possible extension to a 3rd to the south in the state. There are also sites in Virginia with Dionaea in large numbers. > If there were ever a severe threat to flytrap populations in NC, then > send us samples of wild flytraps and we can make sure that they will > never go extinct, living happily in the wilds of north Florida (there > are plenty of other boggy areas that could support flytraps, There is a very real threat to Dionaea in its native habitat. It's past a severe threat. Over collection for years, and Smokey Bear says; "no wildfires" a slow death blow to the remaining sites. Then the development of the land- farming, subdivisions, and hundreds of land grabbing golf courses. I have seen many sites go rapidly. > > It's interesting being able to walk outdoors and see all these > natural (and "exotic") wonders in their natural haunts... I enjoy seeing the flytraps too, and most likely the reason they will remain untouched by the state where known is because they are not a exotic invasive. They don't choke out the native flora. But I doubt that Goverment sanctioned introduction of species not native to the area would ever happen, even if all the native habitat was destroyed (or when) in North Carolina. ~Mike St. Petersburg ################### From: Robert Ziemer Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 15:46:58 -0800 Subject: Utricularia monanthus? I am a little embarrassed to ask this, but I checked the Carnivorous Plant Database and found no matches. I recently saw a plant in a University greenhouse labelled Utricularia monanthus. An Internet search turned up one other reference to U. monanthus at http://carnivorous.netfirms.com/catalogue.htm Does anyone have a clue what plant this name might refer to? ################### From: "Hideka Kobayashi" Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 18:36:31 CST Subject: Any story? Hi. In relation to 'unwanted human pest,' I am wondering if anyone knows a good story of man-eating plants. I mentioned them earlier, but one I know is about this giant CP in Madagascar. This story is gross. My memory is somewhat unclear, but supposedly a virgin is sacrificed for this 'scared' tree. There are sharp spines on the surface of the plant, and the victim is entrapped. The participants of the ceremony gather around the plant, and drink the mixture of blood of the victim and the digestive fluid of the tree. I think I read some other 'true' stories, but I don't believe any of them. I also read this short story (I know the author's name, but don't know how to spell). The main character is an avid orchid collector, and obtains a new species. To make a long story short, he is caught along with his cousin and her cat. His nephew comes to investigate, but he finds out what happened. The orchid is butchered after the nephew finds out what the man very negatively wrote about him. I am sure there are more since it is a fascinating topic. Is there any one who knows other stories? Hideka ################### From: Robert Ziemer Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 16:40:21 -0800 Subject: [Fwd: Utricularia monanthus?] Ah ha! Stop the presses. I think I answered my own question. Apparently the spelling is "U. monanthos" not "U. monanthus" as on the label in the --- part 2 --- I am a little embarrassed to ask this, but I checked the Carnivorous Plant Database and found no matches. I recently saw a plant in a University greenhouse labelled Utricularia monanthus. An Internet search turned up one other reference to U. monanthus at http://carnivorous.netfirms.com/catalogue.htm Does anyone have a clue what plant this name might refer to? ################### From: "Strata, Inc." Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 19:34:28 -0600 Subject: CPs and Tornados A tornado touched down half an hour ago in Ft. Worth, Texas, 3 miles from my house! Outside it looked like the apocalypse! I have never seen anything like it before! It changed direction and is headed towards Dallas! Tremendous wind blowing debris in the air all over the place, hail, and torential rain! Although my Sarracenias in my four bogs outside look beat-up, have survived! Michael Pagoulatos ################### From: Miguel de Salas Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:50:58 +1000 Subject: A bog garden Anyone know of any URL pointing to a good site on how to build a CP friendly bog garden? I know it should be pretty straightforward, but I'd like to see what other people have done before I build my own. Also I'd like to hear of people's experiences growing mixed CPs in large (e.g. polystirene crates) containers. Obviously plants growing together must have similar needs, but I wouldn't mind some dos and don'ts... Here in Tasmania, where the climate is pretty mild (few frosts, few days above 30 C), it should be pretty easy to grow them outside. We do have brushtail possums, which fulfil the same ecological niche as squirrels, but hopefully they won't have developed too much of an apetite for CPs. In any case, just as with squirrels, it would be pointless trying to kill them because that would just create a vacant territory for a new possum to move in. Cheers Miguel de Salas School of Plant Science, University of Tasmania, PO Box 252-55, Sandy Bay, Hobart Tasmania, Australia, 7001. mailto://mm_de@postoffice.utas.edu.au My Moths Page: http://members.xoom.com/migueldes/moths/moths.html ################### From: "RICK" Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1981 15:08:57 +1300 Subject: Nepenthes Ripining Times >From my Nep experience it seems that many highlanders take about 5 months or thereabouts for the seed to ripen and you can safely harvest the seed, if say you are collecting in the wild for example, once the capsules are fully developed and you can feel a little 'give' when you squeeze them slightly. Don't know time for lowlanders, it maybe a bit shorter and I'm sure plenty of growers can answer that for you. By the way I have N. arists and they seem to behave rather like N. talangs and N. inermis so they are easy as to grow and relatively quick too, but for me they would not be worth hybridizing as the hybrids would squeal somewhat!! The pitchers are a little odd though. My weeds are not from tc. Sweet growing-- Ric. [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "RICK" Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1981 16:48:58 +1300 Subject: Spectabilis, lavicola, 'spectacola' We here in NZ, and some dudes in Oz, grow a few N. spectabilis variants ranging from G. Panggulubau to G. telong (whatever) which has N. lavicola 'spectabilis' This a mountain north of Takengon near a mountain (2855m) which we were told in the 80's had Neps on it. Also 40 k's or so north of Blangkejeren where the road is at 1800m or so we sussed out some N. spectabilis that we jokingly call N. 'spectacola'. Anyway for us here in NZ the northern most variants grow the easiest and quite quickly too. The G. Pangulubau variant seems to us not as easy for some reason. This species makes nice coloured hybrids. Ric. [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Susan Farrington" Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:17:18 -0600 Subject: Making a cp bog Hi, Miguel, About a month or two ago, there was a fair bit of discussion on the listserve about making a bog... you may want to search the archives. For those who read all that, sorry for the repetition! I take care of a cp bog here at the Missouri Botanical Garden... it is inside a conservatory, but it is a cool conservatory (5 degrees C is the low in winter). It is HOT in the summer, though (40 C is not unusual). It is constructed with a flexible liner, filled with a mixture of peat, sand, and long-fibered sphagnum. Watering is done daily overhead with a hose that is connected to a reverse osmosis system. Live sphagnum moss covers most of the bog, and I grow most types of Sarracenia, VFT's, quite a few sundews, utrics, a few pings, etc. I have trouble with Sarracenias in the hot summer, primarily due to poor air circulation, high heat, and not the fullest of sun (problems you won't have). I end up having to keep them in pots, rotating them outside every month or two to keep them happy. The two Sarracenias that do very well, and are permanently planted (no rotating) are psittacina and leucophylla. At home, I just finished constructing a bog outside. It is three irregularly shaped rigid pool features jigsawed together... the middle one is a pond, the other two have peat and sand. I've installed them on a very slight slant, to allow for a higher and drier end, and a lower, wetter end. There are a few holes drilled about two to three inches from the edge on the lower end, to prevent total waterlogging. I have also put a PVC pipe (3/4") in the middle of each bog, with a cap on top, so that I can siphon out old water as desired. It also provides a handy way to check the water level in the bog... I just put a stick down there and pull it out to see how high the water is. I visited Meadowview Biological Research Station this past weekend (near Fredericksburg, Virginia) and they have just created a cool lookng water garden/bog feature there... it consisted of two water pools, one cascading gently into the other with the use of a pump, and I believe the water was recirculated through the upper bog feature as well. I'm assuming that the water then seeps out of the bog and back to the water feature... a nifty way to make the whole thing self watering! Good luck! Susan Susan Farrington Missouri Botanical Garden P.O. Box 299 St. Louis MO 63166-0299 susan.farrington@mobot.org (314)577-9402 ################### From: "Hideka Kobayashi" Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:47:10 CST Subject: Mites Sorry, I forgot your name. It sounds like you might have mites, but I did not know CPs (in this case, it was a Drosera sp. right?)get mites. If you are concerned enough to pay, you can consult your local Extension Agency or University which has a plant disease/insect diagnostic clinic. Usually, you can find a clinic at major land-grant universities. They like to work on something different other than corn and soybeans (that's where money is), but it does not guarantee they can tell you what you have 100%. The other thing I can think of is, using a biological control. There are predator mites, which of course eat regular two spotted mites and other pests such as fungus gnat larva (I am not talking about shore flies). It might be something you can use, but I don't know if they are going to survive on CPs. Some might be uncomfortable with the idea of having thousands of mites crowing under the bench, and etc... There was a discussion on slug damage some time ago. The Extension entomologist I know gave a talk on orchid pests lately, and he said there is a new product based on Iron compound (iron sulfate?). I forgot the name, but I can look into if anybody wants to know. I don't know if it works under the humid condition, though. Hideka ################### From: (Howard J. Wu L.Ac) Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 8:02:23 +0000 Subject: U. Monathos, J.D. Hook.,Fl. Tasman. 1:299 (1859) U. monanthos is described both in Allen Lowrie's "Carnivorous Plants of Australia v.3" on pp.88-90; and in Peter Taylor's monograph on "The Genus Utricularia"(#13.) It is a small terrestial/fixed aquatic from Tasmania, S. Australia\003, and New Zealand. It is similar to but distinct from U. dichomata and U. Novae-zealandiae. Howard J. Wu Bishop Ca. mrwu@qnet.com ################### From: "John Green" Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 09:07:42 -0700 Subject: Re: Bog gardens >Anyone know of any URL pointing to a good site on how to build a CP >friendly bog garden? >I know it should be pretty straightforward, but I'd like to see what other >people have done before I build my own. Hi Miguel, I've intended to set up a web site to show the progress on my new outdoor bog but haven't gotten around to it yet. I live in Salt Lake City, Utah, in the USA. The weather is quite different from the native habitat of CPs so I have to make a few adjustments. It's pretty dry here; low rainfall and very low humidity (down under 20% rh in the summer). It also gets very hot in the summer (around 100 F / 37-38 C) and very cold in the winter (around -15 F / -10 C). Basically, it's mountain desert conditions. I grow mostly Sarracenia, Drosera, and VFTs. My first outdoor bog was simply a hole I dug and lined with black plastic and filled with a peat/sand mix. I grew only S. oreophila, which is very cold hardy, and they did very well. This spring I've replaced that "hole-in-the-ground" with a nice hard black plastic pond form. The pond form has two depths, 9 inches in the low end and 18 inches in the deep end. I've located it in the same exact place. Since we don't get much rain I put it under a downspout from the rain gutter that runs around the house. That way, every time it rains it gets a good amount of water even if actual rainfall was only a trace. It also minimizes the chances I'll have to supplement it with tap water if it gets really dry in the summer (the 18 inch depth will help with that, too, I hope). It's also up against the south side of the house so it gets very good sun exposure in the summer, and is protected somewhat from hot winds. Being close to the house (which is brick) I imagine also helps in the winter, and keeps it a bit warmer. I have to mulch it over winter to protect it, and we usually get quite a bit of snow cover, which probably helps to moderate the soil temperatures. In the past I've used straw as a mulch, but it encourages moldy conditions, so in the future I'll use pine needles. As for the humidity, I have a nice healthy lawn and garden, which I believe helps to keep the local humidity a bit higher, but the plants seem to do well enough anyway. The soil mix is still mostly peat/sand but I've also added chopped pine needles and perilite. The perilite was a huge mistake since it floats but I ran out of sand and needed something. I've also found that I have to put a few holes in the pond form to allow it to drain after it rains. The sand I used was white silica quartz (the kind used for sandblasting) which was under $5 for a 100lb bag. As soon as it warms up enough I'll be transferring about half of my collection to the bog. Previously I've grown them together in long window-box type pots, bringing them inside for the winter and hauling them back outside for the summer. I find that the plants do far better when grown outside. In addition to the S. oreophilla that I currently have outside, I'll be adding S. flava, S. leucophylla, S. purpurea (both ssp), S. rubra (gulfensis, wherryii, jonesii, rubra), S. alata (maybe?), D. intermedia, D. anglica, D. filiformis, P. vulgaris, and some VFTs. I think I'll also try some South American utrics that I've never been able to grow well inside. If they don't survive it won't be such a loss because they're not doing anything for me now, and if they do well I'll take some starts for the next year. The only non-CP plant I have in there right now is Japanese Blood Grass, which does very well. I don't know how well some of the Sarrs will survive, but I've heard from Rich Ellis in Colorado (just east of Utah), which is also mountainous and cold, and he's done pretty well with most of them. As for pests, I've never had any problems. My kids know not to bother the plants, and even their annoying little friends next door don't touch them. There are no squirrels in my neighborhood (I probably wouldn't mind a few) and the birds have never bothered the plants. Cats don't seem to like the soggy soil either. Amazingly, slugs and snails haven't even been a problem although they do like to crawl onto the cool, wet peat and sit there (they end up being thrown into the street - appologies to any snail rights activists). I've also tried to grow as many plants together as possible, but only in plastic pots. It's a lot easier maintenance and I figure it's fairly similar to their natural conditions anyway. I know this topic has been covered on the list a few times recently, but I'll post it anyway since many people complain about off-list postings. I hope my experiences help you some. Feel free to e-mail me with any questions or comments. John Green Salt Lake City, Utah, USA ################### From: Sunpitcher@aol.com Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:11:40 EST Subject: H. ionasii Hi Will. Unfortunately, your only Heliamphora is also the hardest one to grow IMHO. I grow the other species and their hybrids and have brought most of them into bloom. H. ionasii is a very frustrating plant. You would probably enjoy growing a heterodoxa, minor or tatei. They are lovely plants and easy growers. Addendum to my H. tatei air-layering experiment: After severing the rooted plant from the stem, I have made a new cut 2 inches down from the top of the stem and am rooting this portion. I plan to keep on rooting pieces of the stem until I reach the soil surface. I also plan to take one portion and cut it off, dip it in rootone and see if it will root without being attached to the rest of the stem and the roots. I'm not sure this will work since the stem is about the thickness of one of those big kid's pencils. I'll let you know if this works. This is a cool process. Had no idea this plant would respond so well to this kind of manipulation. Angie Nichols, South Carolina, USA, Earth. ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 19:46:06 +0200 Subject: AW: H. ionasii Hi H. ionasii growers, in my experience the true H. ionasii is a very easy plant to grow, however there is a species (I call it H. spec. Ilu) which is often floating around as H. ionasii, especially in the US. It was brought back by an expedition from the plateau some years ago by a US based group of CPers. Since there was an article in CPN where this plant was called H. ionasii (which is completely wrong without any doubt) there is a lot of confusion and this plant still is sold as H. ionasii by some growers. To see a comparison of the plants, just have a look in my web-page where both are pictured. It is very easy to tell them apart and I do not understand how this mixup ever could have happened. In my experience this species from the plateau (the true H. ionasii does not even occur on the plateau but in a shrubby habitat halfway up the mountain) is indeed not really difficult but unbelievably slow. I waited years for adult pitchers in some occasions! Usually H. ionasii is quite quick and a young plant should have adult pitchers quite quick if grown under the right conditions. Bye and good growing Andreas -----Urspr\374ngliche Nachricht----- Von: cp@opus.hpl.hp.com [mailto:cp@opus.hpl.hp.com]Im Auftrag von Sunpitcher@aol.com Gesendet: Mittwoch, 29. M\344rz 2000 19:23 An: Multiple recipients of list Betreff: H. ionasii Hi Will. Unfortunately, your only Heliamphora is also the hardest one to grow IMHO. I grow the other species and their hybrids and have brought most of them into bloom. H. ionasii is a very frustrating plant. You would probably enjoy growing a heterodoxa, minor or tatei. They are lovely plants and easy growers. Addendum to my H. tatei air-layering experiment: After severing the rooted plant from the stem, I have made a new cut 2 inches down from the top of the stem and am rooting this portion. I plan to keep on rooting pieces of the stem until I reach the soil surface. I also plan to take one portion and cut it off, dip it in rootone and see if it will root without being attached to the rest of the stem and the roots. I'm not sure this will work since the stem is about the thickness of one of those big kid's pencils. I'll let you know if this works. This is a cool process. Had no idea this plant would respond so well to this kind of manipulation. Angie Nichols, South Carolina, USA, Earth. ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:13:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: VFTs in Florida Hi Prem, I am familiar with the occurrence of venus flytraps in northern Florida. But while those plants are there, I wouldn't encourage additional plantings. There are a couple of reasons for this. 1)People doing plantings like this usually don't do it via seed. They plop in whole plants. When they do this, they are depositing not only those plants, but whatever else is in the soil. Things like greenhouse weeds, pests, diseases, etc. all get spread around. So while the Venus Flytraps themselves may not be invasive, the "extras" that go along with it may be very bad. 2)Despite the best intentions of people, planting out new species always runs the risk of unintended consequences. I could imagine some native insect of small range, that doesn't know about venus flytraps. Poor little thing! :) 3)A planting like this would achieve only one thing, that is, ensure that the plant will not go extinct. But I guarantee you that North and South Carolina could sink under the ocean today and Venus Flytraps will not go extinct. They are FIRMLY established in cultivation, so plantings of them in wildland Florida won't achieve anything. Land conservation in North and South Carolina is the only thing you can do if you want to achieve meaningful conservation of VFTs. As Mike pointed out, VFT habitat is being destroyed at a tremendous and sinful rate. But I do not think that planting VFTs in the wild in Florida has value. Interesting, perhaps, but not a good idea. For more on this topic, go to http://www.sarracenia.com/faq/faq436.html Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org > If there were ever a severe threat to flytrap populations in NC, then > send us samples of wild flytraps and we can make sure that they will > never go extinct, living happily in the wilds of north Florida (there > are plenty of other boggy areas that could support flytraps, along with > the already indigenous Sarracenia, Drosera, Pinguicula and Utricularia > that already make FL their home). ################### From: CALIFCARN@aol.com Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:29:25 EST Subject: Re: Garden Show Hey CP fanatics, Peter here at California Carnivores: Since I'm usually late posting these things, I wanted to let folks in Southern California know that Marilee and I are returning to the spring garden show at Crystal Court, South Coast Plaza in Costa Mesa, down there in Southern California on the weekend of April 15th or thereabouts. I think the show runs Friday, Saturday and Sunday. We will not be selling plants, just doing a display, passing out our price lists and taking orders, signing and selling copies of The Savage Garden, and babbling as usual. If anyone wanted us to bring down any plants, call me at the nursery and if we can fit it into my Geo Metro (ha!) we'll try to fit it in. (Only kidding, we're renting a van). It'll be fun to see old friends down there in Southern California, amid the swaying palms, and pray there are no earthquakes. Seeya there! Th-th-th-th-that's all folks! ################### From: Phillip Crane Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 20:43:25 -0600 Subject: Fly Trap Seeds? Hello: I'm in the market for a WHOLE bunch of fly trap seeds. If anyone has any for sale or if anyone knows of a good seller of these seeds, please let me know. Furthermore, I'm interested in a quantity of adult plants. Thanks in advance, Phillip ################### From: FOODBAG@aol.com Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 23:09:16 EST Subject: Flytraps wanted Our CP group(The Rocky Mountain Carnivorous Plant Society) is planning a display and discussion about carnivorous plants for the public and would like to be able to have plants available for people who are interested in trying our beloved hobby. Unfortunately, none of our members actively propagate flytraps. I have found from experience that most people are interested in VFTs over other CP initially. I realize it's kind of early in the season, but if anyone has a surplus of decent flytraps for a reasonable cost, please e-mail me privately. Regards, Joe Griffin Lincoln, NE ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 07:37:12 +0200 Subject: AW: H. ionasii P.S. the address of my page where both H. ionasii and H. spec. Ilu are shown is http://www.wistuba.com Bye Andreas -----Urspr\374ngliche Nachricht----- Von: cp@opus.hpl.hp.com [mailto:cp@opus.hpl.hp.com]Im Auftrag von Andreas Wistuba Gesendet: Mittwoch, 29. M\344rz 2000 19:55 An: Multiple recipients of list Betreff: AW: H. ionasii Hi H. ionasii growers, in my experience the true H. ionasii is a very easy plant to grow, however there is a species (I call it H. spec. Ilu) which is often floating around as H. ionasii, especially in the US. It was brought back by an expedition from the plateau some years ago by a US based group of CPers. Since there was an article in CPN where this plant was called H. ionasii (which is completely wrong without any doubt) there is a lot of confusion and this plant still is sold as H. ionasii by some growers. To see a comparison of the plants, just have a look in my web-page where both are pictured. It is very easy to tell them apart and I do not understand how this mixup ever could have happened. In my experience this species from the plateau (the true H. ionasii does not even occur on the plateau but in a shrubby habitat halfway up the mountain) is indeed not really difficult but unbelievably slow. I waited years for adult pitchers in some occasions! Usually H. ionasii is quite quick and a young plant should have adult pitchers quite quick if grown under the right conditions. Bye and good growing Andreas -----Urspr\374ngliche Nachricht----- Von: cp@opus.hpl.hp.com [mailto:cp@opus.hpl.hp.com]Im Auftrag von Sunpitcher@aol.com Gesendet: Mittwoch, 29. M\344rz 2000 19:23 An: Multiple recipients of list Betreff: H. ionasii Hi Will. Unfortunately, your only Heliamphora is also the hardest one to grow IMHO. I grow the other species and their hybrids and have brought most of them into bloom. H. ionasii is a very frustrating plant. You would probably enjoy growing a heterodoxa, minor or tatei. They are lovely plants and easy growers. Addendum to my H. tatei air-layering experiment: After severing the rooted plant from the stem, I have made a new cut 2 inches down from the top of the stem and am rooting this portion. I plan to keep on rooting pieces of the stem until I reach the soil surface. I also plan to take one portion and cut it off, dip it in rootone and see if it will root without being attached to the rest of the stem and the roots. I'm not sure this will work since the stem is about the thickness of one of those big kid's pencils. I'll let you know if this works. This is a cool process. Had no idea this plant would respond so well to this kind of manipulation. Angie Nichols, South Carolina, USA, Earth. ################### From: "RICK" Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1981 14:09:54 +1300 Subject: Male to Female Ratios Ok after reading the latest listings I will add my few cents worth in, no not on squirrles, killing them/saving them etc as we don't have them in NZ, but on sex ratios instead. It seams that in the wild as well as in cultervation more males exist than females. Now Andeas, Joe, Bruce, and Charlie Boy Clark etc can all comment if they wish, then we all should have a more accurate idea, ay boys. Some of us, have seen Neps in the wild several to many times and for me at least I have seen more males then females, it always seems that way when you are trying to collect seed anyway. Ric. [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Peter Quinnear" Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 08:41:32 +0100 Subject: Siamese Twin Flower stems I have a Sarracenia x moorei which has thrown up a strange flower stem. It is two stems joined until just before the flower buds themselves, when it splits to give 2 normal buds hanging on their own stems. If you run your finger up the stems you can feel an ever deepening groove until the point where it splits. Is this unusual? Do I have rarity or might it be some reaction to the repotting I did over winter? Pete This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ################### From: "Madeleine Groves" Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 11:06:27 +0100 Subject: Building bogs Dear All Check out the Georgia PLant Conservation Alliance bog building page at Mad --------------------------------------------- Madeleine Groves Scientific Officer Conservation Projects Development Unit (CPDU) RBG Kew Richmond Surrey TW9 3AB Tel:+44-(0)181-332-5584 Fax:+44-(0)181-332-5582 ################### From: "Susan Farrington" Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 07:26:39 -0600 Subject: Making a cp bog I received an email from someone asking for more details about the bog/water garden at Meadowview Biological , and I accidentally deleted the message when I meant to reply to it! So I apologize to whoever it was, and ask that you email me again so I can remember who you were. Meanwhile, I emailed Phil Sheridan for more details about the bog, and this is what he told me: Hi Susan: I would like to have the bog garden pond on the website with description but it will be a couple months. We use a pump in the pond that pumps water up to the gravel biological filter. Water then cascades over rocks through stream and irrigates adjacent sand seep by bottom watering. From here water drains into pond and is recirculated into biofilter. The whole apparatus is underlain by liner and covers contours. Hope this helps. You can extract from this and post. Ideally use some of the pictures you took. Best, Phil (I don't have any pictures developed yet, and don't have a scanner yet, but I'll see what I can do! - Susan) Susan Farrington Missouri Botanical Garden P.O. Box 299 St. Louis MO 63166-0299 susan.farrington@mobot.org (314)577-9402 ################### From: Tommy Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 21:39:20 +0800 Subject: sundew hybrid Dear all, I saw the photo of the hybrid, D.capensis X D.aliciae. The plant is very beautiful. The shape of the leaves likes D.capensis while the colour and appearance of the leaves like D.aliciae. I have the cape sundew but not the D.aliciae. I would like to know whether we can produce this hybrid easily by crossing the two plants? I also want to know some information about this hybrid, like how easy and fast they grow etc. Tommy ################### From: Laurent Legendre Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 16:50:04 +0200 Subject: Looking for Ed Read Hi Ed, If you see this message, could you please contact me privately at laurent.legendre@univ-reims.fr. I lost your email address. Thanks and sorry guys for this personal note, Laurent ################### From: Fabien ZUNINO Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 16:47:51 +0200 Subject: New reference about Drosera from Quebec Camille Gervais, Robert Gauthier, Etude cytotaxonomique des especes et des hybrides naturels du genre Drosera (Droseraceae) au Quebec, Acta Bot. Gallica, 1999, 146(4), 387-401 Key-words : Drosera x woodii - Drosera x linglica - Quebec - hybridization - amphiploidy - polytopism In this article D. x linglica is suggested for the linearis-anglica D. x woodii is proposed for the linearis-rotundifolia progeny Good reading Fabien ZUNINO e-mail : zunino@campus.univ-poitiers.fr ################### From: wilson fung Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 09:39:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: Sacc. flowering It's spring and my Sacc. are coming out. But the flower stalks came out before the trap ones. Is this normal? Wil:) ################### From: "Strata, Inc." Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:10:58 -0600 Subject: How to build a bog Miguel, I have built four out-door bogs, and here is how : Select a location which is not downhill (to avoid flooding and run-off debris), and which gets 6-8 hours of direct sun per day. Dig a hole in the shape you want, at least one foot deep. The deeper the hole the more water it holds, the less frequently you will have to water it. Make it wide enough to where you can access the center of the bog from its edges. If your ground is rocky, cover the bottom of the hole with a layer of sand, or other cushioning material. Then line the hole with a thick pond-plastic sheet (the cushioning material is to prevent holes from rocks in the plastic liner, after you fill it with medium). Buy a small hard-plastic children's swimming pool to use as your medium-mixing container. Using a shovel, mix Sphagnum Peat moss and SILICA sand in it in equal quantities, per volume (just eye-ball it). Silica sand is slightly acidic and retains moisture. Mix them well dry first, then add lots of rain or distilled water, and mix them again. Let it sit overnight. Re-mix several times until you have a uniform wet mud. Make several holes on the periphery of the plastic liner, 3-4 inches below the ground level, to allow the bog to drain the upper part after heavy rain. Fill the bog with the prepared medium. Let it sit for at leat a week, preferably a month, to allow the medium to settle. If you don't, after you plant your CPs and the medium settles too much, it may bend or crush the roots. As the medium settles, add more medium (yes, mix again!) to bring the level to surrounding ground level, or a little higher (make a small mount). Then PLANT your CPs! Cut the protruding edges of the liner to ground level (or a little lower) and mask the periphery with rocks. That will give your bog a "seamless" look and blend it with the rest of the garden. If it rains enough where you are, great! If not, buy a piece of 4-6 inch PVC pipe, drill holes all around it, and bury it vertically in the medium where the bottom of the PVC pipe will be 1-2 inches from the bottom of the bog and the other end will protrude a little. You can pour distilled water in the pipe to water the bog without disturbing them from above! If you don't get enougn rain you need to buy an RO filter and make your own pure water (much cheaper than buying loads of distilled water). You are done! Another way is to buy a cheap hard-plastic children's swimming pool, dig a hole in the pool's dimentions, drill draining holes in the pool, and bury it! The rest is the same. Two good books to read about building a bog are: "Savage Garden" by Peter D'Amato (ISBN 0-89815-915-6), and "The natural Water Garden" by The Brooklyn Botanic Garden (ISBN 1-889538-01-9). E-mail me if you have questions. Michael Pagoulatos [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Paul Edwards" Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 14:03:16 +1000 Subject: Re: Any Story To Hideka Kobayashi > > In relation to 'unwanted human pest,' I am wondering if anyone knows a > good story of man-eating plants. > See the movie "Jumanji" starring Robin Williams Paul. ################### From: Stephen Davis Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 22:03:22 -0800 Subject: Re: Artificial LIGHT, Ultraviolet and plexiglass / glass Matt, >Hey CPers, > >I was just discussing artificial terrarium lighting with another CPer. He >feels that the glass and plexiglass covers I use on top of my terraria are >blocking what he says are ultraviolet wavelengths essential to many plants. >He instead uses saran wrap on top of his terraria and is convinced a thin >material such as this (or no cover separating the lights from the plants) >are crucial to good plant growth. While my plants grow pretty well, I cant >help but think I could get better results if I made some changes.... I didn't know plants "needed" UV. I do remember some of the news footage from the foot of South America after the Ozone hole was discovered, showing plants turning very red with pigments to protect themselves. They insinuated that this was not good, but frankly, and unfortunately, the press is not the best source of information out there. >I also recently replaced my bulbs as it had been a while. I've been using 2 >cool white, 1 warm white (bathroom and kitchen), 1 "plant and aquarium". >whats everyone else using? anyone know of a reason I should change this >mixture? its what my buddy phill mann recommends. > >Anyone have some input on this? I just use cool white, and most of my CP look great, as long as I remember to water them. However, I realize you are trying to pull every last inch out of them. What about Halogen lights? Hot, but they are bright and are full spectrum, including enough UV that you have to use a glass UV filter on them. I've been trying to wrestle this with your question for a few weeks myself. On top of that I have a few more issues. I just got a glass edwardian case 19"W x 19" D x 22" tall growing area. The whole unit is 7' tall, with a shelf below the case, and a place for plants above it. The case itself is at eye level. I've been looking at compact lighting to put in it. The top is metal and I want to put plants on top of it. Normal florescent won't work because of size constraints. The under cabinet ones might work, but the ones I found were very small lights in relatively big fixtures, and I didn't think they would put out enough light. The two solutions I'm looking at are: 1) Under cabinet Halogens. 2) An outdoor florescent spotlight The under cabinet Halogens are 2.5" across and only 1" thick. Each bulb is 10W. They could be hung on the bottom of the metal top section very easily. The problem I see is heat build up. I'm not sure how many I would need, but at least 3 or 4 would be required, maybe even 5. The light has a spotlight type reflector. I plugged one in and can feel warmth from about 5" away. But it's not too hot. However, get 5 of them in an enclosed area on a hot day and there might be a problem. to see them go to http://www.lusa.com 2 - The florescent is an Electronic Outdoor Flood light. The large, flat rectangular lights you often see on the outside wall of a building, pointing down, or out at a 45 degree angle. It uses one of those new 35W, four tube compact bulbs. The tubes are all connected at one end only, and are arranged like greek columns, side-by-side. The whole unit is a little over 1'L x 8" wide, by 4.4" deep. Length and width wise, it's perfect. But it's way too thick, unless I cut a hole in the top and have it poke up through that. It also has a great mirror reflector. It would be fantastic to light taller plants or even have several of them surrounding some plants for very bright, fairly even lights. However, at $49 each, they ain't an $8.99 shop light. I thought the light specs were impressive. They claim a 200 watt light equivelent, Tri-phosphor bulb with a color temp of 4,000 degrees kelvin, CRI: 84, Lumens of 2,700. I have no idea of what CRI is, and I don't have any books talking about the degrees kelvin best for plants. Does anyone out there know anything about this stuff to translate? Is this a great light that I should try to use instead of the halogen? >Do we know what wavelengths of light CP prefer? Does a glass or plexiglass >cover prevent any of this light / specific wavelengths from getting to the >plants? You are right about the UV blockage. Glass kills it pretty well. >Please respond, I think this would make for a great discussion >topic! More on topic than the animal one anyway. :-) I agree. Perhaps some co-ordinated experiments would shed some light on the subject too. > >Good growing! >Matt > >Growlist, wantlist and other nonsense... >http://www.geocities.com/sundewmatt Stephen Davis ################### From: Sunpitcher@aol.com Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 01:56:08 EST Subject: H. ionasii and H. nova species Ilu tepui Hi Andreas. I grow both of these plants and find them both to be agonizingly slow to grow. Would you have any suggestions for their culture? Should they be treated any different than the other species? Do you grow yours in live sphagnum? This was suggested to me once but I never did get around to switching mine from peat/sand/perlite. I do fertilize and use freeze dried insects. Unfortunately, these two are too small to shove bugs into the pitchers. I find this sometimes makes a lot of difference in growth rate. thanks for any suggestions. Angie Nichols, South Carolina <> ################### From: "R. Beer" Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 02:33:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: Istanbul Hi - Sorry to post this to the whole list - I'm looking to get in contact again with someone on this list in Istanbul. Lost the email address, sorry - Turkiye'ye 5 Nisan'da geliyorum, 1 Kasim'a kadar kalmaya planliyorum. Lutfen bir email gonderip telefonunu bana verir misin? Istanbul'a varinca seni aracagim. Gorusmek uzere, Bob ################### From: Phil Hanley Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 11:40:18 +0100 Subject: Sacc. flowering >It's spring and my Sacc. are coming out. >But the flower stalks came out before the trap ones. >Is this normal? > Wil:) Yep - the pitchers should be starting to grow any time ################### From: "Carl Strohmenger (HSC)" Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 06:03:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Artificial LIGHT, Ultraviolet and plexiglass / glass I vaguely remember an extensive discussion of the various kinds of lamps and lighting that appeared on this list (I think it was this list) at least 5 years ago. You might want to check the archives from long ago for more information. - Carl ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 13:18:46 +0200 Subject: AW: H. ionasii and H. nova species Ilu tepui Hi Angie, I do nothing special with H. ionasii - sorry to say that. Do you have any idea about the clone you grow? Did it come from me? I grow them as any other Heliamphora and they are really easy here. As I wrote I find the species from Ilu very slow, but not H. ionasii. I just fertilize them rarely, no real food. Bye Andreas -----Urspr\374ngliche Nachricht----- Von: cp@opus.hpl.hp.com [mailto:cp@opus.hpl.hp.com]Im Auftrag von Sunpitcher@aol.com Gesendet: Freitag, 31. M\344rz 2000 09:06 An: Multiple recipients of list Betreff: H. ionasii and H. nova species Ilu tepui Hi Andreas. I grow both of these plants and find them both to be agonizingly slow to grow. Would you have any suggestions for their culture? Should they be treated any different than the other species? Do you grow yours in live sphagnum? This was suggested to me once but I never did get around to switching mine from peat/sand/perlite. I do fertilize and use freeze dried insects. Unfortunately, these two are too small to shove bugs into the pitchers. I find this sometimes makes a lot of difference in growth rate. thanks for any suggestions. Angie Nichols, South Carolina <> ################### From: "RICHARD DAVION" Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 20:48:33 +0930 Subject: SECRET SQUIRREL / NOT OF THIS EARTH Dear Mary-Louise et al The CSIRO did work on Saintpaulia at their Phytotron in Canberra, ACT, Australia and found that this Genus prefers for optimum growth; a Night-Time temperature warmer than the Day-Time temperature - a regime that does not exist anywhere on this Earth though you should be able to reproduce these conditions in your Tissue-Culture Grow-Room quite easily. We've just changed over from Daylight-Saving here in Southern Australia and as a consequence My Computer has suddenly decided to wipe out 5 months of Emails (since we began Daylight-Saving) >(*U*)< so I've just missed out on the prelude to the Social Politics going on with certain members of 'The Board' of the ICPS :)). So if anyone can fill me in with the background "Goss" so-to-speak I'd appreciate it greatly - since I just love gossip (better than a hot cup of Coffee on a cold Winter's night) - if I'm not self-generating it (myself), I'm list'ning to other people's woefully tales of sorrow and neglect. DAVION ################### From: "RICHARD DAVION" Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 21:55:35 +0930 Subject: MAN FROM UNCLE SAM Dear Clem. (RP) et al What's in Uncle Major's concoction? Does it really make the 'Root-Hairs' grow? - I'd like to see a JPEG or two!? How many 'erbs and 'ices does it contain? Does it come from some natural orifice / stream or what-not or is it decanted into bottles from the brook that flows by the back of the garden shed? >(*U^)< Interesting to hear that Florida's illegal horde of Flytraps has spread across three counties - now that's what I like to see, pity it couldn't be countries instead of counties!? Any further info. on the reputed patch behind the sand-dunes at Atlantic Beach? I reckon there's two spots in this country where Cephalotus could possibly be transplanted and recolonized. I've heard that there's some (naugh'y, naugh'y) 'hush-hush' transplants of Darlingtonia in New South Wales. Maybe we should just swap floras? :))) DAVION PS: Clem, there's something of interest for you in the next Newsletter - it'll be off-time though, due to the retype after the back-ups were lost over the debacle due to Daylight Saving. Anyone else had this problem? ################### From: "Strata, Inc." Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 06:49:13 -0600 Subject: To Wilson Fung Yes, it is normal for your Sarracenias to bloom before they produce new leaves (traps). This is their way to ensure that they will be pollinated. If they pitchered before they bloomed, they would eat their pollinators! Michael Pagoulatos ################### From: "Philip Semanchuk" Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 08:34:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Sacc. flowering >It's spring and my Sacc. are coming out. >But the flower stalks came out before the trap ones. >Is this normal? Wil, I assume you mean your Sarr., i.e. Sarracenia, North American pitcher plants? If so, then yes it is normal for the flowers stalks to come up before new pitchers start to develop. This happens in the wild as well as in cultivation. Philip URL du jour: http://www.hungersite.org/ ################### From: "Joe Gormican" Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 07:53:58 -0800 Subject: ussubscribe how do I unsubscribe from this list? any help is appreciated. thanks [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "John Green" Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 09:05:06 -0700 Subject: Re: How to build a bog >Buy a small hard-plastic children's swimming pool to use >as your medium-mixing container. Using a shovel, mix >Sphagnum Peat moss and SILICA sand in it in equal >quantities, per volume (just eye-ball it)... Mix them well >dry first, then add lots of rain or distilled water, and mix >them again. Let it sit overnight. Re-mix several times >until you have a uniform wet mud. Sounds like a pretty good idea. I read somewhere that the only way to get the spaghnum to absorb water was to take a handfull and squeeze the air out under water. It works, but it's a very slow process and you end up with arms like Popeye. This spring when I replaced my bog, I started out that way, but the water was so cold I couldn't stand to keep my hands in it. Instead, I put some peat in a large bucket (which is what I used to mix) and then poured some silica sand on top. Then, when I added the water, it readilly soaked into the sand and then I mixed them both with a small garden shovel and added more water. The wet sand helped the peat to absorb the water. It's a slow process but you don't have to wait a week for the peat to absorb the water, and you can plant sooner. >If it rains enough where you are, great! If not, buy a >piece of 4-6 inch PVC pipe, drill holes all around it, and >bury it vertically in the medium where the bottom of the >PVC pipe will be 1-2 inches from the bottom of the bog >and the other end will protrude a little. You can pour >distilled water in the pipe to water the bog without >disturbing them from above! I simply placed a bunch of small rocks and pebbles several inches deep in the spot where water will enter (directly under the rain gutter in my case). There's about 2-3 inches of chopped pine needles under the rocks, but I don't think thats necessary. The rocks are surrounded by Japanese Blood Grass. It probably doesn't work as well but it looks nice. John Green Salt Lake City, Utah ################### From: Nigel Hurneyman Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 18:31:38 +0100 Subject: Can plants change sex? Reading tabloid stories of fish changing sex and human male sperm count reduction and gynaecomasty because of oestrogens in the water, does the same apply to plants? Is it possible to mutate a plant to the opposite sex by the application of appropriate hormones? NigelH ################### From: EdwardK674@aol.com Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:29:31 EST Subject: Degrees Kelvin In a message dated 03/31/2000 4:39:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, cp@opus.hpl.hp.com writes: << thought the light specs were impressive. They claim a 200 watt light equivelent, Tri-phosphor bulb with a color temp of 4,000 degrees kelvin, CRI: 84, Lumens of 2,700. I have no idea of what CRI is, an >> Hi Stephen., One of the other possible options would be to order a prewired ballast and endcaps and build a custom lighting system. I'm going to do that with a small reef aquarium. Additionally you can order from aquarium magazines, reflectors that can increase the amount of lighting reflected down to the plants. I couldn't find any refrences in my Plant Pysiology Text about degrees Kelvin and plants however one of my reef books (The Modern Coral Reef Aquarium Vol 1 by Fossa and Nilsen) has a good explanation. The higher the Kelvin number the "whiter" the light with the violet, green and blue spectra prevailing. The book also refers to natural sunlight being about 5800 K with variations depending on time of day and weather conditions from 2500 K to 30000 K). Personally, (as with reef aquaria) I would mix several different bulbs to try and obtain as balanced a spectrum as possible. CRI (Color Rendition Index) refers to how well the bulbs match sunlight in demonstrating colors. The closer the CRI is to 100 the better the "true or natural" colors are demonstrated. Ed ################### From: "Joe Harden" Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:01:46 -0600 Subject: Phytosanitary Cert. I called the US Customs office today, and I was trying to find out the paperwork/permits needed to get a Phytosanitary Certificate. The person over the phone said the only paperwork required was that if the plants were on some sort of import regulation list, and told me flat out I didn't need anything. Well, I know the type of people everyone is hiring today, since labor is tight...and I think I got bad advice. Problem is, I called back a few days later and I got the same guy... Can someone please clarify this, since 'ignorance of the law' isn't a good defense if I get in trouble --EVEN if the ignorance was on their part. Joe [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: strega@split.it (Tassara) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 21:28:09 +0200 Subject: Re: R: Strange Drosera disease Hi John, thanks for your reply. Today I've examined under a microscope some leaves of D. callistos, D. peltata and D. stolonifera and I've found no filaments. The tentacles curl in the same manner as those of the plant in your picture, but to a greater extent and in some plants all the tentacles of all the leaves are curled. A very sad sight! The tentacles are shrivelled and their tip is dry. With the microscope I've noted a few small objects attached to some of them: they are whitish and when they are fully developed they resemble a pair of not completely opened mushrooms. On the other side, I've noted no animals (mites or anything else) so I assume it is a fungal illness. Identifying a fungus seems to be very hard, so I assume I should try many fungicides hoping I'll find one which works. I fear tuberous and especially pigmy sundews can't survive after loosing all their leaves, so I'll use sulfur just as a last chance. Regards Filippo Filippo Tassara wrote: >>I've recently noted on some sundew leaves a strange illness: in a few days all >>the tentacles of all the leaves (young and old) of some plants curl completely >>towards the center of the leaf, not in the normal way, but forming a >>semi-circle. >>This happened on D. peltata, D. cistiflora, D. glabripes, D. stolonifera, D. >>menziesii and D. callistos. >>The leaves didn't catch any prey and I didn't spray anything over them. >>I've examined them under a microscope because I suspected small parasites could >>be involved, but I found none. >>The curled tentacles are rether deformed and their tip lacks mucilage. >>The plants, apart from the tentacles, look healthy. >>Does anybody know what could it be? John Brittnacher wrote: >I have seen this too and even did a web page on it. The page is >under Pests at http://www-epm.ucdavis.edu/~britt/CPs.htm. However I >don't know what causes the problem. If it is mites I can't find them >or evidence of "bites" either. If it is a fungus all I find is a >filamentary fungus. > >The last time I saw it before a few weeks ago was last spring. Last >year I thought I could figure out what it was from what keeps it from >spreading. Orthene (insecticide), Kelthane (miticide and general >nuker), Captan (fungicide), and a systemic fungicide that is >supposedly a replacement for benomyl aren't effective. The only >thing I know of that helps is sulfur. I use sulfur to treat it but >don't know if it would actually go away by itself. That sulfur helps >isn't much of a hint. Nothing will reverse the damage. > >I am beginning to think it is a fungus that spreads during the winter >when things are cool and only shows an effect when it warms up in the >spring. If I see a general outbreak this year with enough plants to >do a proper experiment I will ask our pest person to try some of the >more exotic systemic fungicides that normal humans can't buy here. ################### From: "Hideka Kobayashi" Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 14:02:49 CST Subject: Artificially induced poliploidy Hi. I am just interested if anyone has worked on this in CP. It has been quite frequently done in soem other plants such as Orchids and daylilies, but I am not aware for CP. I think some of sterile Drosera hybrids will be fertile after this treatment, like the D. spatulata hybrid mentioned here a couple weeks ago. In relation to this, is there anyone who know the source of D. Nagamoto or some other Drosera hybrids? I would be interested in D. linearis hybrid paper, but I cannot read French. It looks interesting, though. Hideka ################### From: "Strata, Inc." Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 14:27:15 -0600 Subject: One thing NOT to do with Nepenthes Since I keep my few Nepenthes in the house hanging from the ceiling next to a window, they do not have many opportunities to snack on bugs. So I feed them, mostly small bugs like male mosquitos (the big ones) and rolly-pollies. Well, last week I stepped on a cockroach and half-killed it (apologies to the cockroach-rights activists) and dropped it in a big pitcher of a N. Coccinea. The body decomposed and stank the whole room; I had to cut the pitcher off and toss it! Don't feed your Nepenthes large prey!... Michael Pagoulatos ################### From: Tim Metcalf Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 12:49:10 -0800 Subject: Re: Can plants change sex? (non CP) Jack in the Pulpit, Arisaema triphylla, native to the east coast of the US and Canada routinely changes sex. It produces leaves and flowers in the spring and summer and pumps all its reserves into a corm and goes dormant and leafless during the winter. If the previous year had been good and it has lots of reserves in the corm, it emerges female. If the same plant had a bad year and the corm is too small to support seed and fruit formation, the plant emerges the next spring as a male. Tim Tim Metcalf Plant Biology One Shields Avenue Davis, CA 95616-8537 (530) 752-0569 FAX 5410 http://greenhouse.ucdavis.edu ################### From: "Greg Bourke" Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 08:07:17 EST Subject: Nepenthes aerial roots Has anyone experienced aerial roots on a Nep. The plant was not growing in extremely high humidity. I'm not entirely sure if they are or not. They are green like the stem up to 1cm long. ################### From: Sean Barry Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 16:12:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Phytosanitary Cert. On Fri, 31 Mar 2000, Joe Harden wrote: > I called the US Customs office today, and I was trying to find out > the paperwork/permits needed to get a Phytosanitary Certificate. > The person over the phone said the only paperwork required was that > if the plants were on some sort of import regulation list, and told > me flat out I didn't need anything. Are you planning to _import_ or to _export?_ The person doing the sending/exporting is generally the one who arranges the phytosanitary certificate, which is issued by the USDA or the ag authority of your state. Most states/nations require such a certificate to accompany all plant/seed/soil shipments, and the individual recipient always has the option of requesting one even if the authorities don't require it. If you are importing plant material, the person sending it to you will have to provide the certificate. If you're sending plants elsewhere (internationally or to some states), you need to find out from the recipient's ag authority or directly from the recipient whether a certificate will be required, and if so, you will have to obtain it, again from the agriculture authority of your state or from USDA. Obviously, such certificates are normally issued only after the plant material or nursery is inspected by the ag authority. The above is not to be confused with CITES rules, which cover specific threatened/endangered plant and animal groups and species regardless of origin. To ship CITES appendix II species internationally, the sender must include a CITES export permit with the shipment. To ship CITES appendix I species, the sender must provide a CITES export permit and the recipient must have already obtained a CITES import permit, which is not normally issued for international commerce (except for propagated appendix I plant material with documentation). CITES permits are available in the US from the US Fish and Wildlife Service, which is the designated US CITES management authority. CITES is the big reason that many cactus nurseries don't do international business (all Cactaceae and many other succulents and succulent genera are CITES appendix II or I). The other relevant law is the Lacey Act, which covers all species. Under the Lacey Act species taken in violation of state law can't be moved across state lines, and species taken in violation of the laws of another nation cannot be imported into the US. There are no "permits" that circumvent this, and it's usually prudent to obtain some evidence that biotic material was taken and exported legally. To review: CITES--permits obtained from USFWS or from the CITES management authority of the other involved nation Phytosanitary certificate--from the ag authority of the exporting entity Customs--handles and regulates importation of dutiable items and various proscribed materials (illegal drugs and a remarkable array of other items). When they see a (non-narcotic) plant or an animal, they refer it to USDA and USFWS. Customs is not an authority on USDA and CITES rules, any more than USDA or USFWS can advise you on import duties. Thus, the only real error your customs contact made was in not referring you to USDA or USFWS. Sean Barry ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 19:27:04 -0800 Subject: Re: Utricularia monanthus? Dear Robert, > I am a little embarrassed to ask this, but I checked the Carnivorous > Plant Database and found no matches. I recently saw a plant in a > University greenhouse labelled Utricularia monanthos {Hook.f.}] . An > Internet search turned up one other reference to U. monanthus at > http://carnivorous.netfirms.com/catalogue.htm Does anyone have a clue > what plant this name might refer to? Yes. U. monanthus is very likely a mispelling of the "monanthos". As for why you couldn't find "monanthos" in the DB, I can't say, because it is there. Maybe you looked only under "monanthus"? When using a search engine remember to allow for the possibility that you may not be spelling your inquiry correctly. When I try with the probe "monan", I get: N: [Utricularia monantha {Benj.}] P: Mart., Fl.Bras.10:244 (1847) T: S BR, Sellow s.n. (B|) S: =[Utricularia tricolor {St.Hil.}] N: +[Utricularia monanthos {Hook.f.}] P: Fl.Tasman.1:299 (1860) T: Arthurs Lakes, Tas., AU, Gunn 896 (K) L: S AU, NZ LFR: 133, 134, 148, 149, 150 S: ?=[Utricularia novae-zelandiae {Hook.f.}] N: ~[Utricularia monanthos {auct. non Hook.f..: K. & M.Kondo}] P: Carniv.Pl.of the World in Colour:169 (1983) S: =[Utricularia novae-zelandiae {Hook.f.}] best regards, -- Rick Walker ################### From: "Richard Jobson" Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 16:41:00 +1000 Subject: Utric hybrids and mad scientists Hi there, Has anyone heard anything about Utric hybrids either wild or in cultivation? I remember someone mentioned a cross between species from section Iperua and Orchidioides. Its strange that the mad scientists on the list that play around with pitcher plants and butterworts have not attacked the bladderworts yet, or are they trying ;-)? Hi David Banks, I did a bit of a search through the literature re. your question of sex ratio in the dioecious Nepenthes and also fruit ripening (you may have already done this). I turned up no specific study or mention. An answer for at least some of the species may lie in the early monographs or grower observation as someone has already done. Please let me know what you find out! richard. ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 09:42:31 +0200 Subject: AW: Nepenthes aerial roots Hi Greg, Nepenthes roots never are green. What plant is it? Bye Andreas -----Urspr\374ngliche Nachricht----- Von: cp@opus.hpl.hp.com [mailto:cp@opus.hpl.hp.com]Im Auftrag von Greg Bourke Gesendet: Samstag, 1. April 2000 00:14 An: Multiple recipients of list Betreff: Nepenthes aerial roots Has anyone experienced aerial roots on a Nep. The plant was not growing in extremely high humidity. I'm not entirely sure if they are or not. They are green like the stem up to 1cm long. ################### From: "Juan Nogal" Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 13:49:32 GMT Subject: New species discovered in Venezuela Dear list, after some months of studying it, we are now very happy to announce to you the discovering we have done last year during a research expedition in the region around San Carlos, Venezuela. In two different location we found a dense population of a new plant which belongs to the family Droseraceae and appears to be carnivorous. In fact its trapping mechanism resembles very much the one of Dionaea muscipula, the famous plant from North America. The shape of this new species is however quite different and it brings three traps on each leaf. The plants are reddish and they live in boggy, open areas. We are preparing a scientific article which will describe it properly and it will be published in a few months. As we suppose you will be interested in our discovery we have decided in the meantime to show you a botanical drawing of this plant and to give you some more details. You will find them at the following address: http://www.geocities.com/dionaea20/sp_nova.html Sincerely Juan Nogal Native Herbs Research Society Valencia, Venezuela ################### From: Sunpitcher@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 09:05:04 EST Subject: (no subject) Hi Andreas. Yes, it did come from you. I guess I'll just continue to be patient for a few more years :) I've had it for so long now I won't give up on it. Thanks for your input. Angie nichols, SC >>I do nothing special with H. ionasii - sorry to say that. Do you have any idea about the clone you grow? Did it come from me?<< ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 17:34:49 +0200 Subject: AW: (no subject) Hi Angie, generally I have the feeling that young Heliamphoras grow better under artificial lights. I presume this is due to more constant lightning conditions. In my case my young plants like artificial lights while my adult Heliamphoras are in the greenhouse with very strong additional Natrium-halide illumination. If you have your young plants in the greenhouse where it might be too dark or too warm just try to grow them in a cool cellar in a terrarium under fluorescent tubes. How do you grow the young ones? Bye Andreas -----Urspr\374ngliche Nachricht----- Von: cp@opus.hpl.hp.com [mailto:cp@opus.hpl.hp.com]Im Auftrag von Sunpitcher@aol.com Gesendet: Samstag, 1. April 2000 16:15 An: Multiple recipients of list Betreff: (no subject) Hi Andreas. Yes, it did come from you. I guess I'll just continue to be patient for a few more years :) I've had it for so long now I won't give up on it. Thanks for your input. Angie nichols, SC >>I do nothing special with H. ionasii - sorry to say that. Do you have any idea about the clone you grow? Did it come from me?<< ################### From: Phil Wilson Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 16:43:57 +0100 Subject: Re: Phytosanitary Cert. Joe, >I called the US Customs office today, and I was trying to find out >the paperwork/permits needed to get a Phytosanitary Certificate. >The person over the phone said the only paperwork required was that >if the plants were on some sort of import regulation list, and told >me flat out I didn't need anything. > >Well, I know the type of people everyone is hiring today, since >labor is tight...and I think I got bad advice. Problem is, I called >back a few days later and I got the same guy... > >Can someone please clarify this, since 'ignorance of the law' isn't >a good defense if I get in trouble --EVEN if the ignorance was on >their part. > Sounds like bad advice to me. I live in the UK and have only ever brought plants in from the States, never exported but as far as I know the situation is that any plant material needs a phytosanitary certificate from the exporting country. The only exception AFAIK is for seeds and sterile material sent in-vitro. In addition you may need a CITES permit if the plants concerned are listed in the current CITES appendix. At present this covers all Sarracenia species and sub-species, all Nepenthes, Cephalotus. There may be other species of CP covered but I don't have the appendix in front of me so I can't be sure. In addition several Nepenthes species and a couple of Sarracenias are listed under CITES appendix 1 meaning that trade is highly restricted. If applicable you will need two CITES permits. An export permit from the country exporting the plants and an import permit from the USDA. Both copies of the permit need to travel with the plant. You may also need to obtain the import permit before the exporter can apply for their export permit. Regards, Phil Wilson Email: cp@pwilson.demon.co.uk ################### From: Rand Nicholson Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 15:15:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Contact Hi all: I have just changed my OS, with all that goes along with that, including losing email addresses. Anyone wishing to contact me can now do so at the address below. I apologise for any inconvenience to this List. Kind Regards, Rand (Well ...; _this_ address below ...) -- The Writing Service Rand Nicholson Maritime Canada, Zone 5b ################### From: "Kira Jones" Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 16:07:02 -0600 Subject: Various things... Hello! First off, I'd like to belatedly thank everyone who responded to my last two posts. I have handed in my Darwin paper, and should be getting it back in about two weeks... we'll see what my Biology teacher thinks of one and a half pages worth of information about Insectivorous Plants. :) Secondly, my Sarracenia hybrid is now free of mold... just coming out of its beauty sleep, and growing wonderfully. Again, thanks! Also, as an aside, I was recently at a Pikes location here in Atlanta, GA, and found that they had a good stock of Nepenthesis x coccinea, selling for $19.95. Needless to say, I was very excited, and promptly returned home with one... To my untrained eye, it looks like a rather mature plant. Of course, I am a very raw amateur, so there is a sizable possibility that I could be wrong. =D They looked fair healthwise... Some of the leaves were browning around the edges, but they were in marvelous condition compared to the four Flytraps left in stock. Anyhow. If anyone is interested, it's the location on North Druid Hills. They had about six to eight plants left on Thursday, when I was there. Feel free to e-mail me if you'd like their phone number. Cheers; Kira Get your free customized E-mail from http://gmail.garfield.com ! ################### From: Ivan Snyder Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 16:04:33 -0800 Subject: re: Atificially Induced Pollyploidy Hi Hideka and all, Hideka wrote: >Hi. I am just interested if anyone has worked on this in CP. It has been >quite frequently done in some other plants such as Orchids and daylilies, >but I am not aware for CP. I think some of sterile Drosera hybrids will be >fertile after this treatment, like the D. spatulata hybrid mentioned here a >couple weeks ago. >In relation to this, is there anyone who know the source of D. nagamotoi or >some other Drosera hybrids? Ivan here: In the March 2000 issue of the Carnivorous Plant Newsletter appears an informative article on this very subject which I authored. I was most pleased with how the final draft turned out. Much credit goes to Barry Meyers-Rice and Jan Schlauer, thanks guys! The title of the article is Colchicine Treatment on Sterile Hybrid Sundews. In the article I wrote about treatment procedure, hybrids I have made, and some of my results. My first success was in treating the hybrid D. x nagamotoi which is a cross I made of D. anglica Hawaii with D. spatulata Australia. Several months ago I offered seed of this induced pollyploid here on the Listserve. A few people later reported to me that the plant is growing well for them I was happy to hear : ) I recently sent all the seed I collected of this to the ICPS Seedbank, but will be getting more maybe next month. For those who have read my article, here is a little research update. I mentioned that it might be possible to backcross my octoploid D. x nagamotoi with a tetraploid D. spatulata from Australia making a fertile hexaploid. I have done that and gone still further. Here is a chromosome diagram like in the article for this backcross. S -represents 10 D. spatulata chromosomes L -10 linearis R -10 rotundifolia ( remember anglica = rotundifolia X linearis ) S S R L S S S S R ---------- X -------- = ------------ S S R L S S S S L or: nagamotoi X spatulata = quasi tokaiensis You can see in the diagram that the result of the backcross differs from true D. tokaiensis by only 1/6. S S R -------- D. tokaiensis S S R The plant known as D. tokaiensis was theorized to be an allopolyploid of D. spatulata and rotundifolia. I have crossed my quasi tokaiensis with the natural from Japan and raised these up. They proved to be fertile, though make little seed. I now have the second generation. Since this cross is fertile, taxonomist take note; this is proof that D. tokaiensis is as was theorized, an allopolyploid. For those people not wishing to play with potentially dangerous chemicals such as colchicine, you can still do some interesting breeding experiments as is learned from the above. Does anyone care to read more on this? Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagh. ################### From: "LISA M. BUTTONOW" Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 19:05:07 CST Subject: plant sex change You can change the sex of cucumbers by applying a silver compound at a certain time during flower bud formation. Lisa Buttonow, Research Assistant Department of Plant Pathology 593A Russell Laboratories Madison, WI 53706 608-263-2095 lmb@plantpath.wisc.edu Fax # 608-263-2626 ################### From: Ccp108@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 21:29:24 EST Subject: Davion, Just had time to reed the list, was working the peninsula on the northeast corner of our North 40, taday during daylight, before Daylight Savings Time. Simple cut down bush and saplings and tractor mow. This next part is for Davion. In a one gallon bottle of water put 1 tablespoon of sink dishwashing liquid (Example Ivory, Dove; or Dawn,) isn't Dawn when we wake up saving time. Then add 2 tablespoons of corn cooking oil (for example ~ Wesson Corn Oil.) The recipe was handed down from old time farmers, but my Uncle Major told me. They used, in old times, on their citrus fruit to keep away the bugs. Before Ivory Soap they used lard, which is also animal, hog fat that will come to the surface when you boil parts of pig in water; and lye, the mineral, which are in Ivory Soap. Cousin Clem ################### From: "Richard Jobson" Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 13:36:27 +1000 Subject: re. Istanbul Hi Bob, I recently sent some Ping. seed to a bloke called Ozgur in Turkey, his email is . Could Ozgur be your man? Rich. ################### From: "Richard Jobson" Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 14:05:49 +1000 Subject: transplants Hey Davion, I realise your joking about the transplants, but we should realise that this will always cause problems and I have personally witnessed this at Flatrock in the Royal Nat. Park south of Sydney (Australia) where Drosera capensis (an invasive African) was growing in dispersed colonies along the banks of the creek downstream from the road for about 500 meters. (if the perpetrator is on the list, your transplant was a success). Its unlikley that all was removed and this raises the question of how this species will affect the other Drosera, Utrics and other plants in that habitat, two Utric of which are restricted to this area and one or two other areas further north. I also heard some crazy stories (disasters) about Sarracenia transplants, while in the US. Maybe we should think twice before attempting such things. Rev. Rich. ################### From: bruce dudley Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 06:02:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Mistake of pulling D.capensis transplants in Aust Hi Rich, and all, Let's see if I understand the situation correctly: someone tried to pull D. capensis out of the ground? Well, they may have likely have left roots. These roots will sprout, oh say, 100 plantlets per foot if left in the ground for a week or so (low germination estimate!). Has anyone gone back to see the carpet of new plants that has probably spread like wildfire? The good thing about this species is that it does an excellent job of reproducing from any means given; leaf, root, and seed all propagate so easily. I doubt it is all gone. Bruce ################### From: Sunpitcher@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 13:19:34 EDT Subject: Helis and lights Hi Andreas. I grow them all in the house in tanks under lights. Big and little ones. Being at sea level I don't have a cellar but the tanks are in air conditioned rooms. I do have a greenhouse but it gets very hot here and I have never grown any in there. I may experiment this year by trying some hybrids in there just to see what happens. Thanks for the info. Angie Nichols, SC ################### From: Andrew Bate Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 19:04:48 +0100 Subject: Nepenthes Ampullaria unrooted cutting for sale/trade This offer is just open to people in the UK - sorry... Large Nepenthes Ampullaria "Cantley's Red" unrooted cutting for sale or trade. Further details on the trade list page of my web site - address below. Regards, Andrew -- andrew@cpuk.org.uk | A UK Specific Guide http://www.cpuk.org.uk | to Carnivorous Plant Resources ################### From: Hkjy15@aol.com Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 14:38:02 EDT Subject: Ibecella lutea, Genlisea i bet you don't have this one: You get $20 to sign up, $5 to refer someone , then a $50 bonus if you get 5 referrals. I got 5 in about two hours and that is $95. you are singing up for a free Emagazine. Let me know what you think. And keep the referral services coming. Thanks My eMag PLEASE USE REFERRAL # 10096041 Thank you ################### From: "William M. Gorum, Jr." Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 14:01:42 -0500 Subject: Wild Collecting Plants RARE - Pitcher Plants - Carnivorous Item #293597973 Hey All.... Found this on www.ebay.com Type in the above item number to look at the posting. Seems like someone is collecting wild S. flavas and auctioning them on ebay. I understand them to say that they're doing this to save the plants who are threatened by habitat destruction. Opinions? TTYL! Will _\../ wgorum@bellsouth.net ################### From: "Michael Hunt" Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 15:21:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Davion, Hey Cousin Clem, You are something else !! Take care, see ya' later, ~Mike St. Petersburg Fl ----- Original Message ----- To: "Multiple recipients of list" Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 10:41 PM > Just had time to reed the list, was working the peninsula on the northeast > corner of our North 40, taday during daylight, before Daylight Savings Time. > Simple cut down bush and saplings and tractor mow. > This next part is for Davion. In a one gallon bottle of water put 1 > tablespoon of sink dishwashing liquid (Example Ivory, Dove; or Dawn,) isn't > Dawn when we wake up saving time. Then add 2 tablespoons of corn cooking oil > (for example ~ Wesson Corn Oil.) The recipe was handed down from old time > farmers, but my Uncle Major told me. They used, in old times, on their > citrus fruit to keep away the bugs. > Before Ivory Soap they used lard, which is also animal, hog fat that will > come to the surface when you boil parts of pig in water; and lye, the > mineral, which are in Ivory Soap. > Cousin Clem ################### From: Owen Priddle Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 21:41:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Heliamphora clearance Hi everybody- With college coming up in a few months and a busy summer even closer, the time has come for my to liquidate my CP collection entirely. I have the following plants for sale: Heliamphora tatei (2 mature plants [$50] and 1 immature[$25]) H. ionasii (1 large immature [$35]) H. spec. nova "Ilu" (2 clumps immature [$25]) H. (spec./nutans?) "Tramen" (1 medium immature [$25]) H. nutans "Giant" (1 huge immature [$25]) H. nutans "lowland" (5 immature [$20]) H. nutans "standard" (4 mature divisions [$20]) H. heterodoxa (1 mature [$20]) H. minor (2 mature [$15]) H. x (heterodoxa x ionasii) (2 clones, 3 plants, all mature [$25-$35] based on size) H. x (nutans x ionasii) (1 mature clump, at least half a dozen points [$50]) H. x midoxa (1 huge mature clump, flowering [$30]) H. x nudoxa (1 mature clump, many points [$25]) I also have: Brocchinia reducta (1 large plant with pups [$40]) Cephalotus (1 medium plant [$10]) Drosera "spec. Weimer #4" (free with largest purchase) Drosera "spec. Okinawa" (free with largest purchase) Drosera prolifera (free with all orders) D. schizandra (free with all orders until supply runs out) I would like to sell this off in as few orders as possible, and to encourage this I will give generous discounts in proportion to the order size. I will reserve plants on a first come, first serve basis. Thanks- -Owen ################### From: Andrew Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 15:15:11 +1000 Subject: Aquatic Utricularia and dormancy Hi all, How essential is dormancy for turion forming aquatic Utricularia? I have some U. australis growing in an unheated tank indoors. However, the water temperature does not drop low enough for the plants to form turions. Is turion formation necessary for the health of the plant or can aquatic Utrics skip dormancy relatively unaffected. I have a few strands of it growing outside in a small container which have already started to produce turions. Will it be necessary to move the rest of the plants outside for the Winter in order for them to survive or can I leave them growing inside? Thanks in advance. Andrew (Melbourne) ################### From: Phil Wilson Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 12:02:10 +0100 Subject: Re: Heliamphora clearance Owen, Sorry to hear you are giving up your collections. Hope its only a temporary lapse! Are you willing to ship to the UK? I can pay in US dollars cash. If so I am interested in the following: > >Heliamphora tatei immature[$25]) >H. spec. nova "Ilu" (2 clumps immature [$25]) >H. minor (2 mature [$15]) Phil Wilson Email: cp@pwilson.demon.co.uk ################### From: Vitor Fernandes Oliveira de Miranda Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 08:07:44 -0300 (GRNLNDST) Subject: Re: Fly Trap Seeds? On Thu, 30 Mar 2000, Vitor Fernandes Oliveira de Miranda wrote: > > Hi Phillip! > > VFT seeds are usually easy to be acquired. A interesting person that I > advise you to contact is Allen Lowrie from Western Australia. He have > several CPs species seeds and the prices are normally reasonable. Do you > have his address? If not, I can send it to you. > > Regards > > Vitor. > > ------ > Vitor Fernandes Oliveira de Miranda > Botanical Department > Unesp - S\343o Paulo State University > Rio Claro, SP, Brazil > e-mail: vmiranda@ms.rc.unesp.br > ------ > > ------------------- > Phillip wrote: > > Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 20:43:25 -0600 > From: Phillip Crane > To: > Subject: Fly Trap Seeds? > Message-ID: > > Hello: > > I'm in the market for a WHOLE bunch of fly trap seeds. If anyone has any > for sale or if anyone knows of a good seller of these seeds, please let me > know. > > Furthermore, I'm interested in a quantity of adult plants. > > > Thanks in advance, > > Phillip > > ################### From: Phil Wilson Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 12:13:01 +0100 Subject: Re: Nepenthes Ampullaria unrooted cutting for sale/trade Andrew, > >This offer is just open to people in the UK - sorry... > >Large Nepenthes Ampullaria "Cantley's Red" unrooted cutting for sale or >trade. Further details on the trade list page of my web site - address >below. > Even unrooted cuttings of this are of interest... How much? Cheers, Phil Wilson Email: cp@pwilson.demon.co.uk ################### From: Vitor Fernandes Oliveira de Miranda Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 08:12:52 -0300 (GRNLNDST) Subject: Re: New species discovered in Venezuela Hi Juan Nogal, It was a interesting joke... Take care Vitor. ################### From: Tom Massey Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 21:54:44 -0400 Subject: RE: Nepenthes aerial roots Greg: I have had Neps produce aerial roots. (If you mean roots sprouting from some point above the ground surface). However, it was usually in situations where the plant was in very high humidity or where an older stem was pressed against a wet glass surface. They look exactly like regular roots (fine, black, fibrous). Tom in Fl. On Friday, March 31, 2000 5:14 PM, Greg Bourke [SMTP:sydneycarnivorous@hotmail.com] wrote: > > Has anyone experienced aerial roots on a Nep. The plant was not growing in > extremely high humidity. I'm not entirely sure if they are or not. They are > green like the stem up to 1cm long. > > ################### From: Rand Nicholson Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 11:48:36 -0300 Subject: Re: Email Address (offtopic) Hi All: Sorry to be off topic, but I am trying to contact Chris Teichreb in Vancouver, Canada. If anyone has his email address I would appreciate it if you could send it to me privately. Also lost was the address of someone who was requesting some VFTs for a project. If that person could also contact me privately, it would be much appreciated Once again, sorry to be off topic. Kind Regards, Rand -- The Writing Service Rand Nicholson Maritime Canada, Zone 5b ################### From: SelleFrancais1@aol.com Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 10:57:28 EDT Subject: Unsubscribe I wish to unsubscribe at this moment-hope to rejoin later. Thanks ################### From: "John Green" Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 09:02:24 -0600 Subject: CPs in "Southern Living" magazine There's a short article (one page) in the April 2000 issue of "Southern Living" on CPs, quoting heavily from Dr. Mellichamp. It mostly talks about not collecting from the wild and growing them in patio containers. There's an extract from the article with one picture at: http://southernliving.com/thismonth/april/pitcher.asp John Green Salt Lake City, Utah (far from the South, but my parents like the magazine) ################### From: Robert Ziemer Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 08:38:09 -0700 Subject: Re: New species discovered in Venezuela Dear "Juan Nogal" , Thanks for the laugh. Sometimes this list gets a bit snippy, or at least stuffy. Bob Ziemer > As we suppose you will be interested in our discovery we have decided in the > meantime to show you a botanical drawing of this plant and to give you some > more details. > You will find them at the following address: > http://www.geocities.com/dionaea20/sp_nova.html ################### From: Ivan Snyder Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 09:26:19 -0700 Subject: re: TerribleTransplants Hey Richard and all, Richard wrote: >transplants, I have personally >witnessed this at Flatrock in the Royal Nat. Park south of Sydney >(Australia) where Drosera capensis (an invasive African) was >growing in dispersed colonies along the banks of the creek >downstream from the road for about 500 meters. (if the perpetrator >is on the list, your transplant was a success). Its unlikley that all >was removed and this raises the question of how this species will >affect the other Drosera, Utrics and other plants in that habitat, two >Utric of which are restricted to this area and one or two other areas >further north. I also heard some crazy stories (disasters) about >Sarracenia transplants, while in the US. Maybe we should think >twice before attempting such things. Ivan here, I had a wonderful hike six years ago from Wattomolla Beach to Garie in Royal Ntl. Park. A beautiful place where I saw CP also; D. spatulata, D. pygmaea, some utrics. I have also visited the site here in California you mention as being a disaster. You are, I am sure referring to the Albion Bog in Mendocino. Here, D. capensis has run amuck to put it mildly. I beg you, don't let this happen at Flatrock. The Albion Bog was also seeded with Darlingtonia. This is growing very well and plentifully. Since Darlingtonia is native to California and has been reported at nearby Inglenook Fen in the past, I feel that Darlingtonia belongs in the Albion Bog, and it is nice to visit it there. In N. Florida with the VFT transplants, I feel this is OK also. VFT has just had its range extented a bit in my mind. Boglands were far more extensive in Pliestocene times, maybe VFT was in Florida in the past. Ivan Snyder Hermosa Beach California ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 09:53:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Drosera capensis in Australia and California Hi Richard, I've also observed Drosera capensis as a non-native plant in three places in California. Two sites were sites of great botanical significance to carnivorous plants (Drosera rotundifolia, Darlingtonia californica, Pinguicula macroceras subsp. nortensis occuring together). There were only a few plants at each of these sites, and I pulled all I found. The third site is in Mendocino, California. At this location, Drosera capensis is now a fully established weed and no doubt could not be removed. The natural value of this area has pretty much been trashed by people who have introduced more than twenty species of carnivores (and additionally, greenhouse pests) into the area. At least two other species (D. binata, Utricularia subulata) are so firmly established that removal is probably impossible. This is unfortunate since it was planted into an interesting pygmy forest with a high native biodiversity. I don't know of the effects on the native arthropods. Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor barry@carnivorousplants.org http://www.carnivorousplants.org >I realise your joking about the transplants, but we should realise that >this will always cause problems and I have personally witnessed this at >Flatrock in the Royal Nat. Park south of Sydney (Australia) where Drosera >capensis (an invasive African) was growing in dispersed colonies along >the banks of the creek downstream from the road for about 500 meters. (if ################### From: "Martin en Erica" Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 22:45:56 +0200 Subject: Re: A bog garden Hi Miguel, Last year I made a bog >Anyone know of any URL pointing to a good site on how to build a CP >friendly bog garden? > >I know it should be pretty straightforward, but I'd like to see what other >people have done before I build my own. Also I'd like to hear of people's >experiences growing mixed CPs in large (e.g. polystirene crates) >containers. Obviously plants growing together must have similar needs, but >I wouldn't mind some dos and don'ts... > >Here in Tasmania, where the climate is pretty mild (few frosts, few days >above 30 C), it should be pretty easy to grow them outside. We do have >brushtail possums, which fulfil the same ecological niche as squirrels, but >hopefully they won't have developed too much of an apetite for CPs. >In any case, just as with squirrels, it would be pointless trying to kill >them because that would just create a vacant territory for a new possum to >move in. > ################### From: CMcdon0923@aol.com Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 14:11:40 EDT Subject: Re: Wild-collecting of S. flava - eBay #293597973 Very interesting item, and a somewhat distrubing photo. In my opinion......IF, and I say again IF, they are truely being pulled from a bog that is under active development (i.e., destruction) as in the photo, them I personally believe it "a good thing". I would fill the trunk of my car with plants, if I ever came upon a similar situation. Near where I live, there is a beautiful stand of bamboo growing next to a two-lane road....probably a thousand square feet plot of plants. The road is being widened a few hundred yards/meters beyond the stand. When I see the earthmoving equipment getting ready to plow it under, I plan to dig up a bunch of the bamboo to plant in my yard. Sincerely, Craig McDonald Frisco, Texas ################### From: "Martin en Erica" Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:41:08 +0200 Subject: Re: a bog garden (Sorry,I wasn't finished yet!) Hi Miguel and other bog makers, Sorry, I accidentally sent my concept to the list before I finished it! So please ignore the previous message! Some experiences from The Netherlands (Holland): Last year I made a bog in my front garden, which is faced to the South. I followed the instructions from the book The savage garden of Peter d'Amato: I used pond-liner, the depth is about 50 cm, with straight sides (then it has more volume to contain more water for dry periods in summer). And, very important, I made a pipe from the rainpipe to the bog, and in the rainpipe I put a thing which is normally used to fill a rainwater ton/can (?) with the result that all the water from the roof of our house is going to the bog, and when the bog is full, the water goes to the sewer (where normally all the rainwater is going to). In the bog I made a vertical pipe where the pipe with rainwater meets, and were I can check the level of the watertable. This is worjking quite well, when it rains for only a short period, the bog is filled with water very quickly About one year ago I planted the following species: Drosera. filiformis D. rotundifolia D. intermedia D. binata Sarracenia flava S. purpurea (not sure which subspecies) S. oreophila S. rubra S. alata S. leucophylla Pinguicula grandiflora and a Sarracenia hybrid with much leucophylla blood in it. And some more species I forgot. My experiences till now are very good, although I don't know yet wether the D. binata survived the winter, they didn't look too good when I checked last weekend, while it was a very wet and mild winter. The flower buds of the Sarrs are emerging now in most species. For VFT's our summers are a bit too cool I presume, I will now try them in a pot on our terrace I also included some West-european companion species for CP's: Eriophorum angustifolium & vaginatum (The first one is spreading like a weed!) Oxycoccus macrocarpon (cranberry) Rhynchospora alba Andromeda polifolia 'Compacta' (nice pink flowers in spring) Eriophorum angustifolium was probably not such a good idea because it spreads so fast, but on the other hand it provides some support for the upright pitchers when it's windy, and protects the plants against bare frost (the rhizomes are covered with the dying leaves). I think our overall climate is a bit colder then Tasmania I presume, but for the rest it is very comparable (mild winters/cool summers, rain in all seasons). Hope this helpsyou want to know more, feel free to ask me! Bye, Martin Zevenbergen [HTML file part2 deleted by listprocessor] ################### From: "Joseph Kinyon" Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 14:41:11 -0700 Subject: Caution: Rant Crossing and Incendiary Opinions Rev. Rich. In a previous posting you wrote: "Hey Davion, I realise your joking about the transplants, but we should realise that this will always cause problems and I have personally witnessed this at Flatrock in the Royal Nat. Park south of Sydney (Australia) where Drosera capensis (an invasive African) was growing in dispersed colonies along the banks of the creek downstream from the road for about 500 meters. (if the perpetrator is on the list, your transplant was a success). Its unlikley that all was removed and this raises the question of how this species will affect the other Drosera, Utrics and other plants in that habitat, two Utric of which are restricted to this area and one or two other areas further north. I also heard some crazy stories (disasters) about Sarracenia transplants, while in the US. Maybe we should think twice before attempting such things. Rev. Rich." Wow, am I to understand that people who actually care about CP's would introduce them back into a water shed that they are not native to? I'd put the "introduction of non-native carnivorous plants into water sheds" up there with poaching natives out of their habitat until they are extinct. It is a selfish, egotistical, and pig-headed act. The moral statements aside, I'd like to offer some advice as a naturalist and participant in habitat restoration: STOP DOING IT!!! The anecdotal and scientific evidence against it is overwhelming. Non-natives (plants, insects, mammals, etc.) are impacting native carnivorous plant habitat. It is a form of habitat destruction as devastating as paving it with a parking lot. It is also an ethic that leads to the sloppy dispersal of all non-natives and impact on all habitats. It is the classic example of Pandora's box. I would stop you from planting things for the same reason I would stop you from stealing plants, because it is a bad idea. Of course, all plants in cultivation once came from the wild, so this makes me a hipocrite. I will gladly eat my shoe leather to get this point across, confident