################### From: jcavanau@indyunix.iupui.edu (john e. cavanaugh) Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 12:08:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: sphagnum, sphagnum, alive, alive-O! Dear CPers: I know this is slightly tangential, but what are people's experience growing/keeping live sphagnum moss? My readings and intuition indicate that wetter is better, but mine has always died under such conditions (the S. purpurea and S. leukophyllia are fine, thank you). I have gotten a new batch and instead of drowning it, I have put it in pots, on top of saturated milled peat, then placed the pots in an aquarium with 2 inches of reverse-osmosed H2O. Half the pots have been placed directly on the bottom, in the water, while half have been placed on top of inverted pots similar to the way orchids are grown. I placed 2-inches of live moss in a pot without the milled peat and placed it directly in the water at the bottom of the tank so that it is "swimming". Noticable differences were seen in health and green-ness after only one day! It remains to be seen if the "humidity-only" moss actually grows better and healthier in the long run, but it's sure prettier. Does anyone have any thoughts or experiences to share? Thanks, John E. Cavanaugh, MD, Fellow Division of Forensic Pathology Indiana University School of Medicine ################### From: "J. Mario Montero" Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 11:47:34 -0800 Subject: CP's in the tropics ? Hello CP people ! My name is Jorge Montero and recently joined CP list. I have a couple of questions regarding CP and the area I live in. Currently I live in Costa Rica (about 10 lat), in San Jose which is about 1000 m above sea level (~3000 ft for people in the US). I would like to know: 1-) Is there any CP which's natural habitat is around my country or country's characteristics ? 2-) Can I get these CP species here in Costa Rica ? (I am aware of CITES regulations might make it difficult to import them) 3-) Hey a good book for starters. Thank you in advance to all who respond (my private email please) Jorge M. Montero. ################### From: "A. Griesser" Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 14:51:43 +0000 Subject: CP food I have been feeding my VFT mealoworms with excellent results. Perhaps other cp growers can suggest better insects. Mealworm pupae are easy and inexpensive to raise odorless and easy to contain eliminate overfertilization paranoia lack cp-damaging mouthparts are easy to feed to plants because they lack legs have relatively little difficult to digest chitin are a size suitable for relatively small VFT Mealworms (Tenebrio molitor) can be purchased from pet stores. Dump them in a shoebox sized plastic or metal container with about a half pound of wheat bran. To avoid fungi, do not put a lid on them: they can not fly or climb, even as adults. Add a couple of slices of peeled apple or potato every 3 or 4 days. Add bran so they always have a few inches. When the frass becomes too deep, pour the top layer of bran and insects into another container and add more bran to the frass, which probably contains plenty of eggs. After they have become adults and reproduced, the adults should be removed to another container or they will cannibalize the defenseless pupae. (The adults do not seem to bother the larvae.) If you want to feed larvae to your plants, you may want to use those which have just shed their exoskeletons, because they have less chitin. Sorting though the bran to find freshly moulted insects is tedious. If you put them in your refigerator, they will continue to grow until they need to moult, which they apparently can not do at low temperatures. When you remove them from the refrigerator, a large fraction of them will moult at one time. "Giant Mealworms" (Zophobas (sp?) species) may be tempting for larger cp, but I do not know how to rear them. ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 18:07:57 +0100 Subject: Identify this Nepenthes please I wonder if those of you who are web-equipped could take a look at http://www.brunt.demon.co.uk/cp/nepenthes.html I've just uploaded a page with a picture of a Nepenthes on it. This was one of several unrooted cuttings which Andreas Wistuba sent me about a year ago. I managed to root 4 in total (not bad for a beginner, and in the depths of Winter too), but this one is the most notable so far, having soon developed these attractive pitchers. Once we have a name, then I'd be quite happy for the picture to be added to the CP database, or perhaps I could take a better one. -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) ################### From: Johannes.Marabini@t-online.de (Johannes Marabini) Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 19:36:24 +0100 Subject: Re:Nepenthes soils Hallo all, In a message dated 96-12-19 10:01:38 EST, you write: > The plants in nature _must_ grow faster than this. If not, then the > seedlings would be overwhelmed by the myriad other plants that grow in > such a warm and humid environment. I find it so hard to believe that a > N. edwardsiana seedling in its natural habitat would take over five > years to grow maybe a half meter. Trees grow faster than that! > > So, to repeat, is anyone aware of detailed studies concerning soils in > Nepenthes habitats? > > Does anyone have suggestions or comments about speeding the growth of > N. edwardsiana and N. villosa? I saw N.edwardsiana several times at locations on G.Trusmadi and these plants were very large! I measured one plant and it was 22 meters! long. A part of it was creeping through the very thick moss, the last 1/4 was climbing in the low trees. I also saw seedlings growing in the moss with 12 cm long internodi. On the other hand I have plants of N.edwardsiana grown from seeds since 1991 and they are now 25 cm in diameter. And the N.rajah which you can see in my homepage is also 6 years old (from tissue culture) and 60 cm in diam. Another N.rajah, 4 years is 6cm in diam.! If you see the very hard conditions for these highlandspecies at the localities, you will understand, that they cannot grow very fast. In my oppinion this 22 meter long edwardsiana is over 15 years old. And I believe, that the plants need min. 5-8 years to flower. On the summit you have fog or rain nearly all the time. I measured the lowest temperature on Trusmadi with -2 degr.Celsius! There werde ice-pearls on our tents. And when the sun will come out during the day you suddenly have a haet of 33 degr. celsius. How will you do this in our greenhouses? Bye Johannes -- Johannes Marabini Sperlingstrasse 10 91315 Hoechstadt/Aisch Germany Tel./Fax 49 9193 4866 @e-mail: mailto:Johannes.Marabini@t-online.de Homepage: ">johannes.marabini@t-online.de/index.htm">http://home.t-online.de/home/[15 ]johannes.marabini@t-online.de/index.htm ------------New Nepenthesphotos!!---------------------------------------------- ------------Updated 30.12.1996------------------------------------------------- ################### From: Russell Elliott Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 16:19:05 -0800 Subject: Re: Care of VFT? Jack McAuliffe wrote: > > Postage paid by: [Image] > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > I just lost my lasted batch of VFT's. I live in Virginia, I was rasing them > indoors, and following all the instructions I recieve at the nursery and > they still didn't last very long. I think perhaps I may be misinformed as > to the successful care of venus flytraps, if anyone could send me detailed > instructions for the care of VFT's, I would be very grateful. Thanks alot. Jack, I was wonderiong if you could tell us exactly how you keep your VFT's. You can find lots of information at: http://randomaccess.unm.edu/www/cp/cparchive.html . There are also many other links at the above site where you can find additional information. Anyway, here are some basic tips: * Don't play with the traps or try to feed your plant dead insects or meat of any kind. * Sit your plant in a tray about 1 inch (2.54 cm) deep. * Give your plant as many hours of direct sunlight as possible. (not if it is in a terrarium, as it will very rapidly burn!) * Use a pot at least 4 inches in diameter. Those little two inch pots the plants are usually sold in are useless. If grown in these for longer than about a year the plants roots will usually rot. There are some of the basics. Hope This helps, Russell Elliott -- *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ! Russell Elliott ! ! Seed Bank Director, ! ! Australian Carnivorous Plant Society ! ! mailto:relliott@geocities.com ! ! mailto:elliott@nexus.edu.au ! *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ################### From: "Christopher Walkden" Date: Thu, 2 Jan 97 11:01:23 UT Subject: re: sphagnum We have sphagnum growing here in our highlands, I visited some on a Geology excursion once. We were taking core samples of a small bog (we had special permision from the appropriate government authorities!) to work out it's shape and recent history. The bog is near Wild Dog River, so we christened it Wild Dog Bog. It turned out that a glacier had carved out the rock about 12,000 years ago, leaving lots of sharp sand on the bottom (our corer couldn't go through anything heavier than sand, so we didn't see below that). Since then the bog has slowly built up with Sphagnum moss and other highland plants. It built up about 5m of peat in 12,000 years! (we carbon dated some peat near the bottom, so that date may be way out). The water level in the bog in the middle of winter was about half a metre below the surface, so it certainly wasn't drowning. We have wet winters and dry summers here. Something that I have noticed with my sphagnum at home is that it grows well over the winter, but struggles during the summer. Up in the highlands the temperature variation would be about -5\260C to 15\260C in the winter, and more like 5\260C to 20\260C in the summer. Down here it is a bit warmer, and gets a lot drier. I suppose the moss doesn't like the drying winds (all my CPs are outside). BTW the moss I am talking about at home is sitting in the tops of the pots of CPs. In the winter it threatens to overwhelm, in the summer it threatens to dry out and die (it goes black and burnt looking on the tips). Christopher Walkden Tasmania Australia. ################### From: "Doug Fraser" Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 21:42:52 +0000 Subject: Nepenthes naming Happy New Year all, I have spent the last few days relabelling my nepenthes as the original tags have faded in some cases. I have a number of queries that I was hoping someone could help me with. Firstly I have a plant labelled N. spectabilis x bongso, should that now be labelled as N. spectabilis x talangensis? Is bongso a synonym for talangensis? If so does this mean that the name N. bongso should theoretically become obsolete, or does N. bongso refer to a distinct morphological subgrouping within the species, N. talangensis? I also have a plant labelled N. rafflesiana x stenophylla, should this plant also be relabelled as N. rafflesiana x fallax? If so should the name N. stenophyllabe used for this species or should it be replaced by N. fallax in all nepenthes collections? My next query is in relation to the identification of seedlings that may arise from a nepenthes cross I have done between a female N. rafflesiana (white) with the pollen from N rafflesiana(brunei) x N. rafflesiana (singapore giant). This should produce the species N. rafflesiana. It is highly improbable or impossible that such a cross would take place in nature. Should such crosses (I use the word loosely) be assigned cultivar names to seperate them from naturally occuring variations within the same species? I last query is unfortunately about a plant or plants that I do not own and if the exploitation of nepenthes in the wild continues may in fact never get to see. Are N. aristolochioides and N. tudjah one and the same? If so which is the correct name? Please bare with my ignorance as you may be the only one able to correct it. Meryl Fraser Townsville Australia ################### From: Paul Temple 02-Jan-1997 1430 Date: Thu, 2 Jan 97 15:29:13 MET Subject: Re: Can anyone translate the BIBLIOPHILE KOSTBARKEITEN mail? +---------------------------+ TM From: Paul Temple | | | | | | | | Dept: Digital | d | i | g | i | t | a | l | Func: Net Comms | | | | | | | | DTN: 7781-1582 +---------------------------+ Easynet: fangio::temple_p Internet: temple_p@gmt.dec.com Loc/MS: GMT OK I admit it. Despite German heritage I don't speak and can't read the language. So would someone mind translating the German email "BIBLIOPHILE KOSTBARKEITEN" sent on Wed 1 Jan 1997? Thanks if someone does! Regards Paul ################### From: "Phil Semanchuk" pj@glaxowellcome.com> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 97 14:47:01 -0500 Subject: Re: sphagnum, sphagnum, alive, alive-O! > I know this is slightly tangential, but what > are people's experience growing/keeping live > sphagnum moss? My readings and intuition indicate > that wetter is better, but mine has always died > under such conditions This summer I filled a small plastic tray (about 8" x 4"/20cm x 10cm) with water and a handful of peat for acidity and grew some sphagnum in it. The peat was not thick enough to raise the green bits of sphagnum above the water level, so the plants were underwater most of the time. They were only exposed to air when the weather got really dry which didn't happen too often. (We had 60 inches of rain in 1996, four inches short of the most ever recorded). The moss grew fine, that is to say at the end of the summer I had more than I started with. I didn't grow any sphagnum on peat like you did so I can't compare the success of the two growing mediums. Not a very precise experiment, I know! But that's my 2 cents FWIW. Happy New Year to all Phil ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 10:36:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: sphagnum, sphagnum, alive, alive-O! > Dear CPers: > I know this is slightly tangential, but what are people's > experience growing/keeping live sphagnum moss? My readings and intuition > indicate that wetter is better, but mine has always died under such > conditions (the S. purpurea and S. leukophyllia are fine, thank you). > Does anyone have any thoughts or experiences to share? > Thanks, > John E. Cavanaugh, MD, Fellow John: I have always used live sphagnum for just about all my plants when I could get it, and most have been in it for the past five years or so. I use long fiber native stuff for the most part. I simply orient the moss with the growing points up (as it would be in the wild) and fill the whole pot with it. Almost all of my pots stand in shallow water, maybe up to 1 and 1/2 inches deep in rainy summers, and perhaps 1/4 inch during the winters. I see inevitable breakdown of the moss at the bottom of the pot within a year and a half or so, but the growing points remain healthy. In my experience RO water is a must, one day of tap water will kill it. I also sometimes have inexplicable dead spots pop up (mainly outside) where rain water or something else has bleached it. As far as being too wet, I haven't found this to be the case. Often, if I have a few loose strands or a handful seems to be drying out for no good reason, I just stuff it into the water in a corner of one of the watering trays and leave it until I need it. Best as I recall, this always perks it up. Hope this helps, Tom in Fl. ################### From: John Walker Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 07:58:45 -0800 Subject: Re: Help for N. Madagascariensis At 05:07 PM 12/28/96 -0800, Alan wrote: >I have a N. Madagascariensis that is about 2" tall. It was growing well >until recently. It has three leaves including the one not quite open at >the top. The lower (4th) leaf shriveled up and fell off and the lowest >one now (3rd) is getting brown on the tip. I have it in a 4" pot with a >wick and peat moss. It is in a window sill that gets a little direct >sunlight. Can anyone help? ************************************************************** Hi Alan, I grow a small N. madagascariensis in a terrarium under lights. As it seems to be a slow growing plant I don't know if I have all the growing requirements just right, but it colors up and pitchures very well. I do the following: 5" pot, soil consisting of bark, sand, peat, charcole, and long fibered sphagnum, 2:1:1:1:1 Pot is kept out of the water, with no wick, and is watered once a week or so. Light is provided by four 40 watt flourescent bulbs Humidity is kept at about 70% Temps are 70F-90F Some possible things to try: You might want to check your roots to make sure they are not rotting. I don't know how wet your wick is keeping the soil. Don't let the direct sunlight burn the plant (I don't know that this is occuring, just be carefull) Increase the humidity (this helped my plant to pitchuring) Hope this helps, John in Phoenix ################### From: BREWER__CHARLES@ecomail.damneck.navy.mil Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 11:07:15 -0500 Subject: re: growing vfts Jack, Growing vfts in Virginia is fairly easy. They can stay out side most of the year except during January and February. A little freezing weather has never hurt mine at all. I grow about 300 or so vfts from seedlings to 15 year old plants. Some are growing along side my Sarr's while others are growing in 5 inch pots. I use a combination of 60 percent sand to 40 percent peat. I also grow them in all peat and in live sphagnum moss. I have received excellent results no matter which method I use. In other words, vfts are not real picky when it comes to peat/sand, sphagnum mix. As a rule of thumb, the bigger the pot, the better. I like to use 5 inch pot if all possible. These pots hold more moisture in the soil which requires less maintenance on my part. In regards to setting the pots in water, I usually don't and don't recommend it. I find putting them in a container of water increases there chance for rot, sour soil and fungus attacks. Where I live at in Va. Beach, we have very high humidity and lots of rain. If anything, I will only mist my plants between rain falls using a garden hose. Moist, but well drained soil usually has less problems to. During the colder part of winter, I bring my plants inside the greenhouse and set them on the floor (a cold garage works just as well), then I let Mother Nature does the rest. If I see that the sphagnum moss starts looking a little dry, I will mist the plants down just a little. Vfts grow well in strong light to full sun light. More sun, more color. I feed my plants crickets and any other Fat belly bugs I can find. Small plants, will they are on there own. I do not fertilize them at all, but they have been known to respond to a weak solution of fertilizer sprayed on them once a month during the growing season, but you better know what you are doing before you attempt this. I will also change the soil yearly during dormancy. I hope this will help some what and get you off to good growing habit. Any questions can be sent to me directly. Charles Brewer Va. Beach, Va ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 97 11:52 EST Subject: Re: Invading exotics > From: "Demetrio Lamzaki" > > >You are _so_ right! > >Rice eels to zebra mussels, etc. One just has to sit down and > >think and one can come up with invader species. > > So true! It's such an easy thing to do that the numbers soon > overwhelm you. Philip's post was a real eye-opener. It's > incredible what just a few individual members of a species > can do when given the opportunity, maybe if we told them > their parent stock was not genetically diverse enough when > it was released into the wild we can convince them to stop > dominating the landscape! :-) Again, I believe it is erroneous to suggest that the reintroduction of plants to wild habitat will proceed with the "ease" of introduction of certain invading exotics. If it were so easy, why have not the endangered Hawaiian plants been easily "reintroduced" to again "dominate the landscape"? I think the exotic species problem shows that ecosystems are indeed difficult to manage, and we cannot expect introductions to proceed so simply when they are by are by our design. I also think it is not productive to argue in this way about the minimum level of genetic diversity needed for successful reintroduction. A conservation program is designed to MAXIMIZE the available genetic diversity for reintroduction. Michael Chamberland ################### From: L235@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 12:36:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Sphagnum cultivation In a message dated 1/1/97 11:41:06 PM, you wrote: >Dear CPers: > I know this is slightly tangential, but what are people's >experience growing/keeping live sphagnum moss? My readings and intuition >indicate that wetter is better, but mine has always died under such >conditions (the S. purpurea and S. leukophyllia are fine, thank you). I >have gotten a new batch and instead of drowning it, I have put it in pots, >on top of saturated milled peat, then placed the pots in an aquarium with 2 >inches of reverse-osmosed H2O. Half the pots have been placed directly on >the bottom, in the water, while half have been placed on top of inverted >pots similar to the way orchids are grown. I placed 2-inches of live moss >in a pot without the milled peat and placed it directly in the water at the >bottom of the tank so that it is "swimming". >Noticable differences were seen in health and green-ness after only one day! >It remains to be seen if the "humidity-only" moss actually grows better and >healthier in the long run, but it's sure prettier. > Does anyone have any thoughts or experiences to share? >Thanks, > John E. Cavanaugh, MD, Fellow > Division of Forensic Pathology > Indiana University School of Medicine Dear John, Not tangential at all! My collection of different moss forms is becoming (almost) as large as my CP collection. I have the greatest success when I culture the moss as I would most of my CP, to wit: mix of sphagnum peat moss and sand/perlite/whatever (vermiculite, etc.) about 50/50. Tray watering (one inch or less) and bright light. Many of my plants grow a nice carpet of moss during their spring/summer outdoors in the Southeast US, and I"m cultivating some newly-acquired moss (very nice, low grower, non invasive .. THANK YOU, DAVID) in a three-inch pot underlights in my closet greenhouse-of-sorts. One thing I have just noticed, after returning from two weeks out of state .. living moss seems to be a good home (unfortunately) for Botrytis! (yech). In several pots, it seems to have spread quickly through green moss. I've since removed most, if not all moss from my plants, except for small patches far away from rhizomes ... mold seems to be less of a problem on bare soil. Anyone else find this? Ironically, mold doesn't seem to be a problem in all-moss pots. (i.e. U. cornuta, U. juncea,) Jay Lechtman (L235@aol.com) ################### From: L235@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 12:42:27 -0500 Subject: Welcome back, Demetrio! Welcome back, Demetrio! (somewhat belatedly) I just visited the San Diego zoo as well, and wondered, if they can house a bromeliad garden courtesy of the San Diego bromeliad study group, why not CP? (They also have a nice collection of confiscated orchids put into their care by the border patrol, I believe). I heard Dr. Lau present the same talk to the Southern California CP society at their December meeting. Fascinating, and the pictures were incredible! I heard that he's touring the country trying to raise money for his education program (we each donated a small amount to hear him by way of honarium), so perhaps he might be available to other clubs/groups? Tom Johnson seemed to have made the arrangements (I was just visiting from the east). Jay Lechtman (L235@aol.com) ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 97 13:18 EST Subject: RE: Is Extinction better than Captive Cultivation? > From: Nigel Hurneyman > > > 'It is important for hobby growers to understand that commercially propagate > plants and hobby collections do not represent conservation material'. > > Sorry Michael, but there are precedents that suggest hobbyists can be an > important conservation resource. Ah, but I have not been saying that hobbyists are not an important conservation resource! I've been saying that hobby COLLECTIONS are not an important conservation resource. I think the greatest contribution that hobby collection makes to conservation is through interesting and educating people about plants. A person interested in plants can then easily make the jump to being interested in conservation. But I believe it is important to understand that hobby collections do not conserve wild biodiversity. That is part of the education about conservation. > 1) A peat bog in Northern England restored by volunteers and repopulated > with native CPs from hobbyists collections. It wasn't a stunning success > AFAIK because hobbyists can't suddenly come up with thousands of D. > rotundifolia with a couple of months notice, but the plants provided were a > start. Successful reintroduction will depend on the long-term success (over several years). I do not know which plants were reintroduced. But since you mention D. rotundifolia, I must wonder why D. rotundifolia from hobby collections was used? This species is fairly common and widespread in the northern latitudes. Why were not plants transferred from another wild source, ie. salvaged from a wild spot about to be destroyed? Why not grow up plants from wild-collected seed? Perhaps these were done? This needs clarification. > 2) A leading UK botanic garden had a scheme whereby succulents that were > too boring to display in its show houses were given to enthusiasts to preser > in their collections, on the understanding that the garden could reclaim > material > as and when necessary for conservation and analysis purposes. I haven't > heard anything of this scheme for a long time so it may have ceased. This is very reasonable for keeping plants in cultivation. I don't know if the enthusiasts could really preserve the plants better than the garden over the long term. But since this is material propagated from cultivation, there's no reason not to give it a try. I have serious doubts that this material would be suitable for conservation of plants in the wild... but there's no reason not to keep the plants in cultivation for aesthetic purposes. > 3) A species long considered extinct from Central America due to > loss of habitat was found many years later in a private collection > in the UK. It is > being bulked up by a US Botanic Garden to ensure it never comes so > close to lights out again, both by distribution to other botanic > gardens and by populating a new protected location close to where > it was originally wiped o > I'm kicking myself because the name of the plant is on the tip of > my tongue, > but I think it is a Fuchsia. I think there are better chances this species will be rediscovered in the wild than this plant has of being successfully reintroduced, for all the reasons I've given before: lack of genetic diversity, unknown fate of pollinators, seed distributors, and mycorrhizae, not to mention lack of natural habitat to reintroduce to! If this plant COULD be successfully reintroduced, success would be out of sheer luck! Perhaps a rare plant could be re-grown from a necklace made out of nuts? This does not mean that nut-necklaces are a form of conservation. The necklace, like the hobby collection, is a leisure commodity. Both have their own important aesthetic value. But neither are designed for conservation. > I believe that some of the pygmy Drosera in my collection are now extinct in > the wild, and more are likely to follow through loss of habitat. I certainl I have heard this before on the list (perhaps from you?) and I'd be interested in more information. Which species are involved? Michael Chamberland ################### From: Johannes.Marabini@t-online.de (Johannes Marabini) Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 15:12:19 +0100 Subject: Drosera regia Hallo all, I have a few plants of Drosera regia to swap in spring. I am looking for Genlisa. bye Johannes -- Johannes Marabini Sperlingstrasse 10 91315 Hoechstadt/Aisch Germany Tel./Fax 49 9193 4866 @e-mail: mailto:Johannes.Marabini@t-online.de Homepage: ">johannes.marabini@t-online.de/index.htm">http://home.t-online.de/home/[51 ]johannes.marabini@t-online.de/index.htm ------------New Nepenthesphotos!!---------------------------------------------- ------------Updated 21.12.1996------------------------------------------------- ################### From: BREWER__CHARLES@ecomail.damneck.navy.mil Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 15:53:26 -0500 Subject: re: sphagnum moss John, In regards to sphagnum moss. It sounds as though you are trying to hard to keep it alive. All the sphagnum moss I have seen growing outside usually grows on pond banks or in water that is constantly moving. Like vfts, I grow my moss on peat/sand mix or just plain dead moss, that is well drained and very moist. I also grow the moss out side all year long. During the colder part of the winter, the moss will freeze hard as a rock. In some cases, it will stay this way for several days even a week or two, without and harm. I find that cold weather does not impacted it at all. If anything it's necessary. During the growing season (spring/summer/fall) I grow my moss in large container with high sides. These containers are located in a semi-sunny location, meaning that the moss gets morning and afternoon sun only. The growing container had sides which are approx 1 foot high. This helps keeps the wind from drying out the moss as well as holding in the required humidity. I also have drain holes located in the bottom of the container. This allows the rain water to slowly drain out leaving the moss plenty moist, but not swimming in the same water day after day. It takes about a full day or two for the water to drain out after a good size rain. The drain holes are important in allowing the moss to constantly have a continues supply of fresh rain water running through it. I process my moss by cutting off and using the growing points/heads only. This assures me of always having plenty of moss. I hope this info helps you out. Charles Brewer Va. Beach, Va. ################### From: dave evans Date: Thu, 02 Jan 97 17:45 EST Subject: Re: genetic diversity > From: James Tovee <106361.2125@COMPUSERVE.COM> > > Surely the plants that propagated vegatively should have very > little or no genetic diversity. It is only the plants grown from seed that > will diversify. I am mainly interested in Saracenia. Many of these are have > the area where they originated from appended to there name. These can only > be propagated vegatively to truly retain their name. Hi James, If you self-pollinate the flowers, you can still use the orginal location data. The only genes in that seed will be from the original site. You can also collect seed from a site and name it as such... Sarracenia are not self-pollinating but they are self-fertile so you can produce seed with good location data by helping out with the pollination. Dave Evans ################### From: "Sarver.Cindy V3I" Date: 2 Jan 1997 14:38:52 U Subject: Madagascar Greetings all, I am planning a trip to Madagascar in August of this year and am trying to decide where I should go. Any suggestions? I understand that the reserves at Berenty and Perinet have nice Nepenthes. Private email is fine. Thanks in advance, -cindy ################### From: dave evans Date: Thu, 02 Jan 97 17:59 EST Subject: Re: Re: Non-Native Species > From: Rand Nicholson > > Don't forget the ubiquitous _Dandylion_. Ahh, I've been meaning to ask but since this not the Dandylion list server... Anyway, I heard it mention once or twice that this plant doesn't reproduce sexually, but in some odd quirk, produces gamates capable of growing in new plants on their own. True? Yes, I know they attract plenty of bees and produce lots of pollen... Dave Evans ################### From: dave evans Date: Thu, 02 Jan 97 18:42 EST Subject: Re: Re: Tissue Culture versus Seedlings > From: Perry Malouf > > > I was wondering if... you compare a Nepenthes species grown > > from seed> (non-sterile conditions, seed is just sown on compost) > > to a plant of the same species planted out of T.C., both > > with the exact same dimensions, say a 3cm diameter and > > 2cm tall, generally will the growth rates be similar or will > > there be a marked contrast? > > I've noticed that small Nepenthes plants from tissue culture > tend to grow quite a bit faster and more vigorously than > plants from seed (non-sterile conditions). Plants from out of tissue culture are basically on plant steroids. :) I think there ought to be a way of producing this effect without doing it TC. We already use giberrillins (sp?) to get seeds and dormant buds to grow. Of course, this type of chemical will not give the desired result. What will? Superthrive? Maybee, Super- thrive + something? Dave Evans ################### From: dave evans Date: Thu, 02 Jan 97 18:49 EST Subject: Re: Re: Non-Native Species > From: Rand Nicholson > > >California resembles Australia when it comes to having forests > >of Eucalyptus, But no kuwalas (sp?) though, eh? > Rice eels to zebra mussels, etc. One just has to sit down and think and one > can come up with invader species. A lot of them seem to be "natural" > because they have been in our (North American) ecosystems for decades. How about that crap: poison-ivy! That's not a native either. It now cover's roads sides all over N. America! I've seen it everywhere I've been (quite a number of places). It's even in Canada, right? Dave E ################### From: Alastair Robinson <">100611.1627@CompuServe.COM> Date: 02 Jan 97 19:19:40 EST Subject: Re:N."sp.Tudjuh" Although I have written to Meryl privately, I'd just like to point out, as it has come up a few times, that N.aristolochioides and N.sp.Tudjuh are the same thing - the former is its name as the latter was only a reference to where it was found - Gunung/Mt. Tudjuh in Sumatra. Best wishes, Alastair. ################### From: "Sarver.Cindy V3I" Date: 2 Jan 1997 16:21:09 U Subject: San Diego Zoo All, Actually, the Wild Animal Park near San Diego (and affiliated with the zoo) has a very small collection of cp in their butterfly exhibit. -cindy ################### From: dave evans Date: Thu, 02 Jan 97 19:22 EST Subject: Re: Is Extinction better than Captive Propagation? > From: "Demetrio Lamzaki" > > This fact doesn't conflict with my support of the preservation > of natural biodiversity. The two tactics complement each other, > they are not exclusive paths that one must decide between as > they've been depicted by some here. Hmm, While I don't see capitive populations loosing their wild abilities of survival, if the sites are destroyed, then there is no place to re-introduce them. Plants are generally more tied to a specific type of soil and lighting and water levels than animals but it still happens (carrier pigeon). Keeping plants as backups to wild populations doesn't mechanically conflict with preservation, but it does when you have money to spend on one or the other. I'd always pick the land and the environment on it over building lots of greenhouses (where should we put the greenhouses?). If I had plants from a site that was later picked clean, I could re-plant (or send seed and plants to whoever is re-planting the site) some and there still may be seed present. Such opertunity is a rather rare occurance. Most of the time, the land is it's self is damaged in some way, so it is no longer able to support the life it once held. > My guess is the overwhelming majority of readers of this list, > who have not yet written on this topic, favor both strategies > for preservation as I do. It can work, it's just better to preserve the environment it self. Also, what greedy person is not going to use the captive plants in an attempt to sway the public to their view? "We can give you jobs clearing land and besides those Greenies already have tons of captive plants from here." > >and some from that side use this attitude to rationalize > >or justify illegal activity. See above paragraph for another rationalization. > Yes I know, the sky would darken for hours as a flock went > overhead and with a single rifle shot you could down 20 birds. > Accurate, exaggerated? Who knows. I actually wasn't > referring to them at the height of their numbers, more towards > the last few decades of existence when their decline was > evident. They realized the American bison was in trouble > before it was too late (barely), it's sad the same can't be > said for the Passenger pigeon. Yes, but there is still room for that species. Not for the pigeon though. Dave E ################### From: dave evans Date: Thu, 02 Jan 97 19:39 EST Subject: Re: Re:Mycorhhizal assc. in Neps. > From: Alastair Robinson <100611.1627@COMPUSERVE.COM> > > Diversity thread... On uprooting a young wild N.mirabilis > and inspecting its roots, I was surprised to find them encased in 'tubes' of a > fine intermeshed fibre which I have seen on the roots of some orchids > If Nepenthes can co-exist with a symbiotic fungi, then it is most probably > beneficial, as it is for orchids. Hi Alastair, Have you manage to cultivate this maybe fungus? Only seen it in the wild? Dave Evans ################### From: "Demetrio Lamzaki" Date: Fri, 3 Jan 97 02:49:05 UT Subject: Re: Non-Native Species >>So true! It's such an easy thing to do that the numbers soon >>overwhelm you. Philip's post was a real eye-opener. It's >>incredible what just a few individual members of a species >>can do when given the opportunity, maybe if we told them >>their parent stock was not genetically diverse enough when >>it was released into the wild we can convince them to stop >>dominating the landscape! :-) >Again, I believe it is erroneous to suggest that the reintroduction >of plants to wild habitat will proceed with the "ease" of introduction >of certain invading exotics. (snip) I also think it is not productive >to argue in this way about the minimum level of genetic diversity >needed for successful reintroduction. Huh? The comment you're quoting is not an argument, but a humorous statement as designated by the ":-)" at the end. It was so illogical (negotiating with a plant species) I thought it would easily be seen as such and there was no danger of someone considering it a serious point to debate but you did! (Now that turn of events is truly hilarious! :-) I guess next you'll send me a long serious answer to the other smiley question I raised regarding putting the Bay Area on the CP location map for Sarracenia oreophila, I'm assuming your position is yes, but keep the detail blurry to confuse the poachers...:-) I know you must be a little sore Michael because your original comment "Fortunately, exotic introduction "successes" like the starlings, cheat grass, purple loostrife, salt cedar, and water hyacinth in the US. are rare." is what started this whole thread to begin with, but don't lose your sense of humor. Regards, Demetrios ################### From: "Demetrio Lamzaki" Date: Fri, 3 Jan 97 02:51:19 UT Subject: Re: Welcome back, Demetrio! >Welcome back, Demetrio! (somewhat belatedly) Thanks Jay, it's great to be back. >I just visited the San Diego zoo as well, and wondered, if they >can house a bromeliad garden courtesy of the San Diego bromeliad >study group, why not CP? I thought the same thing too. The Tiger River section would look great with a couple of plants, A full CP display somewhere in the zoo would be fantastic. Is there a San Diego CP club or does the L.A. one have enough members from down there that they could look into this? >(They also have a nice collection of confiscated orchids put into their >care by the border patrol, I believe). Yes, in a secluded section of the zoo at the top of a steep climb hidden behind some trees in a locked case, you knew I'd find them didn't you? :-) Beautiful plants, they take good care of them. There are many other hidden treasures in the park for the fern, cycad, and palm lover, it was worth the visit for the plant life alone, if you are also fascinated by animals like I am you can imagine what a joy it was. It's great to hear from you Jay, I hope you enjoyed your trip out West. Take care, Demetrios ################### From: steiger@iae.unibe.ch (Juerg Steiger) Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 08:32:23 +0100 Subject: Re: Can anyone translate the BIBLIOPHILE KOSTBARKEITEN mail? Paul >OK I admit it. Despite German heritage I don't speak and can't read the >language. So would someone mind translating the German email "BIBLIOPHILE >KOSTBARKEITEN" sent on Wed 1 Jan 1997? Thanks if someone does! KOSTBARKEIT (singular) means a precious object, a treasure, something of great value. The suffix -EN is the ending for the plural. The adjective BIBLIOPHIL means 'attracted by good literature' , 'loving beautiful books' etc. 'BIBLIOPHILE KOSTBARKEITEN' means something like 'precious literature for connaisseurs'. Happy New Year! Juerg ___________________________________________________ Juerg Steiger, Institut fuer Aus-, Weiter- und Fortbildung IAWF University of Bern, Inselspital 37a, CH-3010 Bern, Switzerland Office: +41 31 632 9887 Fax: +41 31 632 9871 ################### From: Laurent Ide Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 08:39:32 GMT Subject: Nepenthes and Drosera Magaliesberg Perry Malouf told me recently that Nepenthes pitchers live maybe three or four months, then die. I'm now sure that I got some pitchers for more than five months that are really in good state. Well, only one day in bad humidity conditions (less than 40 percent humidity) produces this effect: pitcher's top are distorted. If you see that, quickly spray your plant with water. Be sure that ground is wet enough. I personally give water each evening until it drops from the basket bottom. The pitchers tops should be ok in a few hours, if not you'll see they'll turn to black, and a part of the pitcher too maybe ! Especially the biggest ones, and these that are far from the center of the plant in first. So, I've placed a lot of Drosera's in the same pot, they're all South-African except D. capillaris, but this one has the same growing conditions. Now they're all in dormancy in here, and most of them, like D. regia or aliciae, simply grow slower. But D. Magaliesberg, identified as a kind of D. collinsiae by myself (hey scientists, don't lynch me for that personal intuition) has completely turned to black, until the hart of the plant. I suppose it's completely rot (sorb!), but knowing some surprising reincarnations by these plants I'll wait until spring to be sure. Can anyone tell me if this Drosera completely disappears in winter ? Thanks. Laurent Here a personal observation: don't use peat:sand mixes to grow some seeds, because the roots of the little plants have problems to penetrate the sand. I obtain really better results on pure peat. ################### From: Rand Nicholson Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 07:04:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Re: Non-Native Species >> Rice eels to zebra mussels, etc. One just has to sit down and think and one >> can come up with invader species. A lot of them seem to be "natural" >> because they have been in our (North American) ecosystems for decades. > >How about that crap: poison-ivy! That's not a native either. It >now cover's roads sides all over N. America! I've seen it everywhere >I've been (quite a number of places). It's even in Canada, right? > >Dave E It sure is. Where did it come from, originally? Rand ################### From: Perry Malouf Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 07:42:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Can anyone translate the BIBLIOPHILE KOSTBARKEITEN mail? Juerg Steiger was kind enough to translate: > 'BIBLIOPHILE KOSTBARKEITEN' means something like 'precious literature > for connaisseurs'. Thanks for that. I wonder if someone could summarize what the entire message was about? Regards, Perry Malouf ################### From: tjw@chos001.cho.ge.com (Tim Williams Ext. 5529) Date: Fri, 3 Jan 97 09:31:47 EST Subject: Re: Re: Non-Native Species Dave Evans asks about dandylions: Dandylions reproduce by apomixis, a process where the embryo arises from an adjacent vegetative cell and not from the egg cell. Therefore the seed is genetically identical to the mother plant. Recent genetic evidence shows that the North American dandylions are genetically distinct from those in Europe. This suggests that dandylions are probably native to NA (and the rest of the Northern Hemisphere) and not European imports. This also holds for other common weeds originally thought to be European imports. Prunella vulgaris comes to mind as another example. Tim Williams tim.williams@cho.ge.com ################### From: Laurent Ide Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 16:16:08 GMT Subject: Pronounce Latin As a french speaking boy and european people, I would say that the best way to pronounce latin names is to read them like Italian. (or Spanish for US people who never heard italian, if they exist). Referring to the long and really good message from Jan Schlauer at 12-12-96, I must say that the 'SC' in Latin, like in Italian, should be pronounced like a 'sh', as in 'shock', and the italian 'ch' is pronounced 'k', because 'h' in italian is 'k' too. Think to the wine 'Chianti' pronounced 'key-an-tee', and they pronounce 'IAMAKA' for 'YAMAHA' . The latin 'C' is pronounced 'k', the italian 'c' is 'tsh' like in 'CIAO AMICI', 'tsha-o ameetshee' ! The 'A' in all these examples is the european 'a' like in...'America'. To justify this, you should know that my mother is italian and that I followed Latin curses at school (but not enough English !) ################### From: Carl Gustafson Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:28:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Non-Native Species Philip Thomas wrote: >BTW, Hawaii's only NATIVE CP is Drosera anglica (on the island of Kauai, >probably brought in as a seed on the foot of a migrating golden plover). I think I understand the point, but to pick a nit, it seems that Hawaii's only NATIVE CP was introduced by a bird. So, in a situation like this (land formed by volcanic action), are native species those introduced by non-humans, and invaders introduced by humans? Obviously, for an island like Kauai to have any plants (or animals) they would have to have been introduced at some time or other. You could make the point (call it sophistry if you want, I don't mind) that since humans also arose through evolution, (or creation, which would lead to a different line of argument) they are part of nature and so their actions should be considered different from other creatures only to the extent that they are so capable of changing things. carl ################### From: robert.pogson@mwcs.mb.ca (ROBERT POGSON) Date: Fri, 03 Jan 97 11:01:00 -0600 Subject: Re: Recent miracle! Last summer I received some seed of D. capensis from Dean Cook through this list. I planted in July but saw nothing for months. I had put the terrarium aside in a window of my bath. I had even quit misting it as I had given up but it was covered and somewhat moist. Lo! two days ago I was bathing and happened to turn my head close to it. There were a couple of specks of green! Joy! They've grown enough I can see the tentacles now. I feel like a new daddy again. Thanks, Dean. I'm going to start a batch of fruit flies... ... nfx v2.8 [C0000] Of course I'm energetic; don't you know e=mc^2 ? ################### From: Mark van Kleunen Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 21:56:51 +0100 Subject: nepenthes propagation?/ books? Hello all, I have some questions about the asexual propagation of Nepenthes. The book by Adrian Slack states that January-February is the most apropriate period for reproduction of Nepenthes by cuttings. Is this also your experience? The book by Pietropaolo describes several methods for the asexual reproduction of Nepenthes: stem cuttings, air layering, and ground layering. Which of these is the most succesful method for the propagation of N. alata? I also have another question. Does anyone know a store in the Netherlands or otherwise a mail-order company selling books (especially the books of Adrian Slack) about cps? Mark van Kleunen ################### From: dave evans Date: Fri, 03 Jan 97 16:42 EST Subject: ??D.diels. * sp. Trans.?? Hi List, I received some seed of the ICPS Seed Bank labled D.dielsiana * D. sp. Transval. What has come up though *appears* to be a mixed batch of D.capensis and D.spathulata. Considering the D.dielsiana is the mother plant, I was expecting to see some of them as this species is self-pollinating. Could it be that the cross is really D.capensis or D.ramentacia (sp?) * D.dielsiana, which gave rise to a cross which looks like D.spathulata, at least in it's juvenille stage? Dave Evans ################### From: dave evans Date: Fri, 03 Jan 97 18:08 EST Subject: D.peltata? Hi List, I'm just full Drosera related questions, it seems. I received a couple bulbs of D.peltata which had just started their second year's growth this last summer. When it got cold, I moved them inside along with a lot of other plants. After a couple months, one of the bulbs started to grow upright at quite an amazing speed to reach the height of eight inches in about five weeks time. The other plant has been doing some weird thing, making lots of secondary rosettes. Anyway, the first one flowered today and I tried out Jan's new Drosera key. This is when my HEADACHE started. (it's still going strong, BTW.) I was able to count six green yet hairy sepals and six petals but in the time from moving the plant out from under the light and counting the petals, the flower closed. I put it back under the lights, it re-openned. I took it back out and it closed up again, just after I got a glimpse inside! Anyway, there are only two flowers and Jan's key calls for around ten. What I did come up with is D.salina... The petals are white, and I've been told that D.peltata is always pink. Any idea what I have? And why isn't the Tylenol working? ;) Dave Evans ################### From: dave evans Date: Fri, 03 Jan 97 19:07 EST Subject: Re: Re:N.macfarlanei > From: Alastair Robinson <100611.1627@COMPUSERVE.COM> > > Of course, this mightn't apply at all and maybe the D.melanogaster will > work a treat! - I have an 'unsolvable' problem with N.khasiana - it won't grow > at any temperature or moisture levels, and I've tried orchid and peaty composts. > It has had three and a half leaves for two years, but it isn't showing any signs > of leaving and I have given up on trying to coax it into growth - everyone is > always going on about how vigorous it is..! Hi Alastair, You might want to try 1:1 peat:sand and then add about a third of whatever volume you have as fine pine bark chips. I was suprised at how some highlanders have responded to this mix =-> Growing much faster than in a "normal" Nepenthes mix. You can mix in a little long fiber Sphagnum too. I haven't tried this on N.khasiana since mine died in a regular Nep mix. If I ever get another, you can bet it's going in this newer mix. Dave Evans ################### From: Al Bickell Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 19:17:37 -0500 Subject: Nepenthes propagation Markvan Kleunan wrote: methods for the asexual reproduction of Nepenthes: stem cuttings, air layering, and ground layering. Which of these is the most succesful method for the propagation of N. alata? Mark, I have placed a few new illustrations of propogation techniques for Nepenthes at our web site. The site is still just new but expanding fairly rapidly. . Al Bickell ################### From: Rabbi Ishmael Habbakuk <100611.1627@CompuServe.COM> Date: 03 Jan 97 19:44:18 EST Subject: Re:Nepenthes propagation I haven't ever had success with a layering, but cuttings don't pose a problem, although it is generally accepted that highland species are harder to root than are lowlanders - a trick that I find actually helps with these is to split the base of the cutting up its middle about 1cm and wedge this open with a bit of non-biodegradable/decomposable material, such as plastic - then treat as normal. Slack's books are becoming harder to find - his "Insect eating Plants and how to Grow them" certainly the finer of his two books, is almost impossible to get - frustratingly, your last bet may be, if nowhere else, the amazingly well stocked plethora of old book stores along Charing Cross Rd, London, where I found mine and two other copies which I have since passed on to other growers here - it took three years too!. Best of luck anyhow... Regards, Alastair. ################### From: "Demetrio Lamzaki" Date: Sat, 4 Jan 97 00:51:18 UT Subject: Re: San Diego Zoo >Actually, the Wild Animal Park near San Diego (and affiliated with >the zoo) has a very small collection of cp in their butterfly exhibit. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of having a butterfly exhibit? :-) (At least the plants are well fed...sorry, I couldn't resist!) Regards, Demetrios ################### From: Russell Elliott Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 12:12:15 -0800 Subject: Re: D.peltata? dave evans wrote: > > Postage paid by: [Image] > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Hi List, > > I'm just full Drosera related questions, it seems. I > received a couple bulbs of D.peltata which had just started > their second year's growth this last summer. When it got cold, > I moved them inside along with a lot of other plants. After > a couple months, one of the bulbs started to grow upright > at quite an amazing speed to reach the height of eight inches > in about five weeks time. The other plant has been doing > some weird thing, making lots of secondary rosettes. > Anyway, the first one flowered today and I tried out Jan's > new Drosera key. This is when my HEADACHE started. (it's still > going strong, BTW.) I was able to count six green yet hairy > sepals and six petals but in the time from moving the plant out > from under the light and counting the petals, the flower closed. > I put it back under the lights, it re-openned. I took it back > out and it closed up again, just after I got a glimpse inside! > Anyway, there are only two flowers and Jan's key calls for > around ten. What I did come up with is D.salina... The petals > are white, and I've been told that D.peltata is always pink. > > Any idea what I have? > > And why isn't the Tylenol working? ;) > > Dave Evans Dave, Im sure there are two forms of D.peltata, and both can be quote variable. Some clones produce basal rosettes while others lack them, and they often have differing numbers of flowers on them. Sometimes the number of flowers produced can be because of environmental influences. Some of mine only produced a couple of flowers this year, but I think it was because they "left it to the last minute" so to speak, and it would have been too late to produce any more. Anyway, I was wondering if you had received those D.peltata seeds that I promised you a *longggggggg* time ago. I sent them in the post about two weeks ago. Bye for now, Russell Elliott -- *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ! Russell Elliott ! ! Seed Bank Director, ! ! Australian Carnivorous Plant Society ! ! mailto:relliott@geocities.com ! ! mailto:elliott@nexus.edu.au ! *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ################### From: dave evans Date: Fri, 03 Jan 97 21:40 EST Subject: Re: Re: D.peltata? Hi Russel, > Im sure there are two forms of D.peltata, and both can be > quote variable. Some clones produce basal rosettes while > others lack them, and they often have differing numbers of > flowers on them. Subsp. peltata and subsp. auriculata (sp?)? I wonder if that's what you mean, since some people say the latter is a seperate species... > Sometimes the number of flowers produced can > be because of environmental influences. Some of mine only > produced a couple of flowers this year, but I think it was > because they "left it to the last minute" so to speak, and > it would have been too late to produce any more. Yeah, I was thinking this could be the reason for the low count also, but then how can you tell between D.pel. and D.salina? Is that second one even in cultivation, to your knowledge? > Anyway, I was wondering if you had received those D.peltata > seeds that I promised you a *longggggggg* time ago. I sent > them in the post about two weeks ago. Yeah, I received them right before I left to spend a week w/ Tom Hayes. Infact, we both somehow, very recently received lots of seed and other propagative bulbs and spend about half a day splitting the packets and potting them up. It was great timing! Thanks for sending it when you did, since if I manage to kill my pot of them, at least Tom will still have some. (I hope!) I still have to send the D.brevifolia seed to you right? Everything has been so hectic I'm not sure who still needs what... Any clues as how to grow out D.glandugera (sp?) to get seed from them? I tried a little in a pot set up for Drosophyllum which likes very dry conditions compared to every other CP I've grown... The Droso's are happy but I have a feeling it's much too dry for any Drosera. I still have some seed left and I'm hoping to get them in the right set up. Thanks, Dave E ################### From: "Demetrio Lamzaki" Date: Sat, 4 Jan 97 02:49:24 UT Subject: Re: Non-Native Species >>California resembles Australia when it comes to having forests >>of Eucalyptus, >But no kuwalas (sp?) though, eh? We have them too Dave, only they haven't gone wild yet! :-) This brings up a cute anecdote though, we have a colony of koalas at the San Francisco Zoo. Koalas only feed on Eucalyptus, and only certain species of it at that. Well, the zoo discovered that there were stands of the finest koala favorites growing throughout San Francisco. Along with their normal fare, usually growth from zoo-raised saplings, the koalas are treated to mature growth from these trees growing in Golden Gate Park and in various citizen's backyards (people who donate the branches promise never to spray their trees). It might be too cold for them up here, they'd probably do better down south, but in theory if they escaped they wouldn't go hungry. Now, would they multiply and spread? That's better left unanswered. Regards, Demetrios ################### From: "A. Griesser" Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 00:24:27 +0000 Subject: Re: Mycorhhizal assc. in Neps. Dave, I do not know if it is any good, but a mycorrhizae inoculant is available from A. M. Leonard (800 543-8955) under the name "MycorTree Tree Saver", which claims to contain "beneficial endo and ectomycorrhizal fungi, Terra-Sorb water absorbant gel and plant biostimulants". The smallest quantity (50 3 oz pakets) costs $97.50. Has anyone tried water absorbant gels in cp culture? It might give you a view of Utricularia and Genlisea traps. > From: Alastair Robinson <100611.1627@COMPUSERVE.COM> > > Diversity thread... On uprooting a young wild N.mirabilis > and inspecting its roots, I was surprised to find them encased in 'tubes' of a > fine intermeshed fibre which I have seen on the roots of some orchids > If Nepenthes can co-exist with a symbiotic fungi, then it is most probably > beneficial, as it is for orchids. Hi Alastair, Have you manage to cultivate this maybe fungus? Only seen it in the wild? ################### From: "Zachary Kaufman" Date: 4 Jan 1997 09:16:31 -0000 Subject: home cell stain Today I flattened a bladderwort bladder between a cover slip and a slide to view it under a microscope at home. Unfortunately, the cells were rather difficult to see. Does anyone know of something around the house or readily available that can be used as a stain for cells? Thanks, --Zachary-- --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- ################### From: isenberg@eva.cs.Uni-Magdeburg.DE (Tobias Isenberg) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 14:27:44 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: Can anyone translate the BIBLIOPHILE KOSTBARKEITEN mail? Perry Malouf wrote: > Juerg Steiger was kind enough to translate: > > > 'BIBLIOPHILE KOSTBARKEITEN' means something like 'precious literature > > for connaisseurs'. > > Thanks for that. I wonder if someone could summarize what the > entire message was about? It was just an advertisement for a new book about south east Asia with some features like limited to 1500 books; bound by hand with linnen (or linen ?) and leather by someone who also bound the Gutenberg Bible; with a preface by Mr. Somlabh Kitiyakara, descendent of king Chulalongkorn of Thailand; recommended by the literature council of the German minister of science, research and art; including 72 color pictures. Contents: * expedition to the sone age people of West Irian * report about the opium trade in Lao * insight into the asian life style: Thailand India Bali Himalaya Pakistan Nepal Ceylon Indonesia So it was competely off topic. But I hope that helps. Regards, Tobias from Germany -- Tobias Isenberg There are only two real truthes: isenberg@sunpool.cs.uni-magdeburg.de 1. Computer are useful for humans . http://www.cs.uni-magdeburg.de/~isenberg 2. Earth is a disk. ################### From: Burbidgea@aol.com Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 10:14:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Can anyone translate the BIBLIOPHILE KOSTBARKEITEN mail? In a message dated 97-01-03 07:49:48 EST, you write: > > Juerg Steiger was kind enough to translate: > > > 'BIBLIOPHILE KOSTBARKEITEN' means something like 'precious literature > > for connaisseurs'. > > Thanks for that. I wonder if someone could summarize what the > entire message was about? > Perry, if I remember correctl, it was one of those annoying pieces of junk email. The sort that will shortly force me to get a new email address... Christoph ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Sat, 04 Jan 97 13:13:00 EST Subject: Re: Sphagnum cultivation On Jan 4, Jay wrote: >My collection of different moss forms is becoming (almost) as large as my CP >collection and I'm cultivating some newly-acquired moss (very nice, low >grower, non invasive .. THANK YOU, DAVID) in a three-inch pot underlights in >my closet greenhouse-of-sorts. This is truly a neat little moss that looks like a low-pile, plush carpet. Any sphagnum moss experts out there that can shed more light on it. It might be a nice moss to use for Drosera's, which I plan to try once I grow enough of it. Like Jay, I have several kinds, one I call Jethro, big, lanky, and stupid and grows all over everything. I think you know the type. Another has a much smaller crown but still rather bushy. And then there's the dainty moss, no real head like the others, hence the plush pile comparison. I almost wonder if it's sphagnum. >One thing I have just noticed, after returning from two weeks out of state .. >living moss seems to be a good home (unfortunately) for Botrytis! >(yech). I had this problem, too, in pots on occassion but never in my outside bog. Of course, I've only had an outside bog for a year now, so there's not much history there. One of the cp books says not to use sphagnum moss because of the problem with critters. True? Personal experiences you can share? David ################### From: jaldr@onramp.net (James Aldridge) Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 19:20:26 GMT Subject: seeds / propagation pieces Hi. I am looking for seeds and/or vegetative parts to try some in vitro = cp propagation. Can anyone suggest some sources for this material? I am particularly interested in sundews, pitcher plants, and Venus flytraps. Thank you James Aldridge - Fort Worth, Texas, USA jaldr@onramp.net or aldrjame@tenet.edu http://rampages.onramp.net/~jaldr ################### From: Burbidgea@aol.com Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 14:45:33 -0500 Subject: Re: D.peltata? In a message dated 97-01-03 21:49:20 EST, you write: > Yeah, I was thinking this could be the reason for the low > count also, but then how can you tell between D.pel. and > D.salina? Is that second one even in cultivation, to your > knowledge? I grew D. salina about five years ago. But this plant is a lot smaller and mine NEVER grew to eight inches tall. Even Lowrie states that D. salina reaches about 5cm (Carnivorous Plants of Australia, vol.1, p.96). What colors were the tubers? This sometimes helps in determing the species. Christoph ################### From: Peter Cole Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 11:00:25 GMT Subject: Re: ??D.diels. * D. sp. Trans.?? dave evans writes: > I received some seed of the ICPS Seed Bank labled D.dielsiana > * D. sp. Transval. What has come up though *appears* to be a > mixed batch of D.capensis and D.spathulata. Considering the > D.dielsiana is the mother plant, I was expecting to see some > of them as this species is self-pollinating. Could it be > that the cross is really D.capensis or D.ramentacia (sp?) * > D.dielsiana, which gave rise to a cross which looks like D.spathulata, > at least in it's juvenille stage? I sowed some last year, and they certainly start out as little spathulate rosettes, but over time the petioles elongate considerably and the laminae a little, to resemble a flat affinis or short, flat intermedia. It looks like it ought to be a bit more erect, but still grows flat on the ground after nearly a year for me. My seeds also came from the ICPS (sowed 29/2/96 according to the label,) but might be a different batch from the time gap - I see no variation along the lines of spatulata/capensis - none of the laminae has an aspect longer than 3 or 4:1 length:width. I hear it's self-fertile? and that the sp. 'Transvaal' may be D.collinsiae? (I think that was it, or maybe affinis...) I can't remember who I heard this from - came up in Email a couple of months ago. Anyone out there who can refresh my memory/throw some new light on this? It goes to show these S.African Drosera are a complex group! Pretty little plant though, Peter snail:Peter Cole,17 Wimmerfield Cr. :: mailto:carnivor@flytrap.demon.co.uk Killay, SWANSEA SA27BU,WALES,UK :: http://www.flytrap.demon.co.uk/ vox:+44 1792 205214 :: Carnivorous plants & seeds for sale ################### From: Peter Cole Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 10:36:42 GMT Subject: Re: ?D.peltata? In message <199701032340.AA007704833@jr.hpl.hp.com> cp@hplb.hpl.hp.com writes: dave evans writes: ... > Anyway, the first one flowered today and I tried out Jan's > new Drosera key. This is when my HEADACHE started. (it's still > going strong, BTW.) I was able to count six green yet hairy > sepals and six petals but in the time from moving the plant out > from under the light and counting the petals, the flower closed. > I put it back under the lights, it re-openned. I took it back > out and it closed up again, just after I got a glimpse inside! > Anyway, there are only two flowers and Jan's key calls for > around ten. What I did come up with is D.salina... The petals > are white, and I've been told that D.peltata is always pink. I've heard of white-flowering D.peltata (though mine are all pink,) - these might be misidentified, but it's quite a variable species, I guess because it ranges so far. Perhaps you've got a Japanese or NZ plant, which I'd expect to show the most divergence from the norm. I doubt it's D.salina - this one's a flat rosette producing a much shorter climbing stem - no more than 3 or 4 inches compared to twice that or more for D.peltata (I've got one that's 13 inches tall ATM!, but that's unusual.) Lowrie also shows D.salina as being 5-petalled and 5-staminate, so it would be as abberant for this species as D.peltata. I've not kept this one long enough to flower, so I can't comment on variation in floral structures. I also find more variety in D.peltata flowering than the books or Jan's key indicates - anything from 0 to 10 or so flowers per plant, though the flowers may not all appear at once, and it doesn't appear to be consistent by original location or even individual tuber, but rather (probably,) a response to cultivation conditions. The sepals sound more like peltata too - D.salina has glabrous sepals according to Lowrie, while peltata's are dotted with terete-stalked glands. > Any idea what I have? I guess it's D.peltata ssp.maybe-not-peltata :-) Keep an eye out for more flowers and see if the 6-* is the regular pattern or just an abberation (not unknown in all many Drosera spp.) Happy growing, Peter snail:Peter Cole,17 Wimmerfield Cr. :: mailto:carnivor@flytrap.demon.co.uk Killay, SWANSEA SA27BU,WALES,UK :: http://www.flytrap.demon.co.uk/ vox:+44 1792 205214 :: Carnivorous plants & seeds for sale ################### From: Alastair Robinson <100611.1627@CompuServe.COM> Date: 04 Jan 97 20:18:45 EST Subject: ... Dear Dave - you're gonna enjoy this... the first N.khasiana I had was in my all-round semi-epiphytic, barky mix, which goes great for all my other Nepenthes whilst the second, peat, sand and bark in roughly equal proportions, it died too, so..! Out of interest, do you grow your plants under artificial or natural light? - I would very much like to know if anyone out there is cultivating N.khasiana under fuorescent light SUCCESSFULLY - I have a hunch, but am unsure, that like some Streptocarpus species, but not others, some species of plant won't succeed under fluorescent lights while others of the same genus do. That Fungal Innoculation formule' you mentioned, Mr A.Griesser (Hi!) sounds quite interesting - indeed I've never heard of anything like that here (Not that the British have never been a really enterprisingly inventive people..!) and am curious as to whether or not that could work. Surely for such a thing to be of practical use and saleable, the manufacturers would have selected hardy species of fungi which could tolerate extremely variable soil conditions to cope with the variety of soils to which the product, when used, would be added - and thus possibly some that would tolerate an Orchid/Nepenthes mix, but these tend to be so different that I wonder... Am I getting too hopeful in wondering whether anyone has tried and had any success with this?? I have grown Drosera on absorbant gel - D.capensis, and as it turns out, the plants are a little smaller than they might be tho' there is the added benefit that the gel retains relatively large amounts of water - and it even turns green in the sun as it is just perfect for algal growth throughout 8-) I also tried adding it to Nepenthes soil, as among its uses it was suggested as a water retainer suitable for mixing into soil - one cannot judge whether or not this has any affect as I haven't subjected my plants to drought, nor have I any recollection of which pots they are in as it was two/three years ago I'm afraid. With regards to the fungus seen on the roots of the N.mirabilis, much to my irritation, I did not think anything of it at the time and did not make an attempt to preserve it as I have told Dave. I hate it when I do things like this! - always an excuse to go home again though! Best wishes and Many Happy Returns for 1997 (Unless Nostradamus is correct), Alastair. ################### From: John Walker Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 18:58:31 -0800 Subject: Re: home cell stain At 01:23 AM 1/4/97 -0800, you wrote: >Today I flattened a bladderwort bladder between a cover slip and a slide >to view it under a microscope at home. Unfortunately, the cells >were rather difficult to see. Does anyone know of something >around the house or readily available that can be used as a stain for >cells? >Thanks, >--Zachary-- > >--------------------------------------------------------- >Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >--------------------------------------------------------- Hi Zachary, I seem to remember from high school biology that liquid iodine (used for cuts and scrapes) was a stain. Then again I could be mistaken :-) Hope this will help, John in Phoenix ################### From: Perry Malouf Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 05:38:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: N. Khasiana under lights Alastair Robinson wrote: > I would very much like to know if anyone out there is > cultivating N.khasiana under fuorescent light SUCCESSFULLY Yes, I am growing N. khasiana under fluorescent lights successfully. My potting mix is long fiber sphagnum with perlite mixed in; the ratio is roughly 1:1 by volume. The intention is to provide a light, airy mix that drains well but will keep the roots moist (not sopping wet). My N. khasiana is grown under fluorescent lights for about 5 months of the year, when outside conditions are too cold for the plant. The rest of the time I put the plant outdoors in partial shade, but I'm thinking about halting this. The reason is that many of my Nepenthes seem to do better when they're inside for the winter. This may be due to a couple of factors. First, although my area can have hot humid summers (good for Nepenthes), the humidity often varies quite a bit from day to day. The plants seem to prefer constant humidity, even if it's less than 70%, rather than have 90% one day and 60% the next. Second, the plants occasionally get exposed to certain insect pests when they're placed outside. The pests don't kill the plants, but they sometimes stress the plant to the point of setting them back a little. My N. khasiana puts on most of its growth when I put it under fluorescent lights for the winter. Note that I don't have a greenhouse, which would probably help the plant even more. Regards, Perry Malouf ################### From: "Demetrio Lamzaki" Date: Sat, 4 Jan 97 02:54:05 UT Subject: Re: Is Extinction better than Captive Propagation? >> This fact doesn't conflict with my support of the preservation >> of natural biodiversity. The two tactics complement each other, >> they are not exclusive paths that one must decide between as >> they've been depicted by some here. >Keeping plants as backups to wild populations doesn't >mechanically conflict with preservation, but it does when >you have money to spend on one or the other. I'd always >pick the land and the environment on it over building lots >of greenhouses (where should we put the greenhouses?). Dave, I've never known it to be the case where the choice was "either" "or", in other words EITHER you can have a preserved natural site OR have seed and plants in captivity BUT NOT BOTH, unless the site is already extinct. And I don't think it would be a matter of money either, all you need for a seedbank is some empty envelopes and I'm sure you could find a spare bench in an existing greenhouse somewhere without having to build a new one over the natural site. All I'm saying is it helps to have some seed and plants in captivity from that site as a living insurance policy that guarantees that particular gene pool never becomes extinct. Of course keeping the site in existence is the top priority. But, let's say for the sake of argument we must make the choice. I would choose keeping the natural site. But I hope you realize this is an artificial choice, land preservation societies are not lacking funds because all the money is going into collecting seeds! They lack funds because most people don't give a damn whether the plant species exists in captivity or the wild which is the sad truth. And all the preserved habitat in the world is worthless if there aren't enough officers patrolling it to prevent poaching and other destruction, and that also costs money which the natural parks don't have. The poachers probably have a better shot at being hit by lightning than they do being arrested in some areas. Hopefully someday this will change, but until it does it's up to us to do all we can to keep the species alive by preserving natural sites and maintaining living material in captivity. Regards, Demetrios ################### From: dmaupin@ix.netcom.com (Douglas E. Maupin ) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 07:51:22 -0800 Subject: Dec. issue of CPN Greetings all, Just a quick question to find out if anyone received their December 96 issue of CPN? Does anyone know if it has been mailed? Kind Regards, Doug ################### From: Steve Baker Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 11:04:08 -0600 Subject: Re: Dec. issue of CPN All, Dec 96 CPN is on its way to ALL. It was delayed for election of new officers. To get out the election results. Sorry it was so late. Steve Baker CPN Publishing Editor ################### From: Guido.J.Braem@bio.uni-giessen.de Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 18:29:55 +0000 Subject: List owner Could one of the List owners please contact me. Thanks Guido Dr. Guido J. Braem ---- Plant Taxonomist Naunheimer Str. 17 D-35633 Lahnau Germany Tel. [+49](6441]65333 Fax [+49](6441)65334 ################### From: Guido.J.Braem@bio.uni-giessen.de Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 18:29:55 +0000 Subject: Useless mail Tobias I wrote > It was just an advertisement for a new book about south east Asia > with some features like limited to 1500 books; bound by hand with > linnen (or linen ?) and leather by someone who also bound the > Gutenberg Bible; with a preface by Mr. Somlabh Kitiyakara, > descendent of king Chulalongkorn of Thailand; recommended by the > literature council of the German minister of science, research and > art; including 72 color pictures. Yes, I wonder how it made its way on this list. I think messages like that should be screened out. However, Tobias, about you two thruths, the first one is wrong. Cheers Guido Dr. Guido J. Braem ---- Plant Taxonomist Naunheimer Str. 17 D-35633 Lahnau Germany Tel. [+49](6441]65333 Fax [+49](6441)65334 ################### From: Steven_I._Lanham@bridge.com (Steven I. Lanham) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 12:06:23 -0600 Subject: Drosera dormancy question Hi I need some advice You see for the last week its been very warm here 50 to 74F so two of my plants came out of dormancy a Drosera filiformis and a Drosera binata. Well today winter came back and I can let it get cold in the plant room simply by leaving the window open. But will this hurt my two plants? This is my first winter with these plants and I don't know what to do. Will it hurt the rest of my plants to let it warm up so soon? These are the first two plants that went dormant this fall and so they have had the longest rest time of any of my plants. Regards Steve Lanham ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 22:09:53 +0100 Subject: Re: Recent miracle! On 3 Jan 97 at 10:17, ROBERT POGSON wrote: > Last summer I received some seed of D. capensis from Dean Cook > through this list. I planted in July but saw nothing for months. > I had put the terrarium aside in a window of my bath. I had even > quit misting it as I had given up but it was covered and somewhat > moist. Lo! two days ago I was bathing and happened to turn my > head close to it. There were a couple of specks of green! Joy! > They've grown enough I can see the tentacles now. Well I don't know what took them so long, but part of the attraction of growing Drosera from seed is that the first true leaf which appears between the cotyledons comes complete the tentacles. Similarly with Sarracenia - the first true leaf is a tiny pitcher (which usually manages to trap some equally tiny insects!). -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) ################### From: Loren Russell Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 12:57:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: exotic species I'm sure that many of you know this, but poison ivy [and its western counterpart, poison oak [Rhus radicans, R.diversiloba] ARE native to north america. Being nasty, brutish, and weedy does not necessarily mean exotic! I believe the urticating Rhus must occur in eastern Asia as well, since there has been some research in biological control of p.ivy and p.oak using exotic insects.. I notice that the mis-information expands as the square of off-topicness. Loren Russell, Corvallis, Oregon ################### From: Alastair Robinson <100611.1627@CompuServe.COM> Date: 05 Jan 97 19:25:39 EST Subject: Re:N.khasiana I have received a few replies with regards to my N.khasiana note - evidently they do enjoy fluorescent light which means that either both my plants were genetic throwbacks or, more plausible, that the guardian spirits of this species have cursed me. Thanks for all you help! Regards, Alastair. ################### From: L235@aol.com Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 19:44:05 -0500 Subject: Campaign promises Dear all, Several threads ago (before captive propagation vs. extinction, but after "are VFT's from Mars?" ) We were discussing whether or not the ICPS was truly an International organization. At that time, I promised, that, if elected as ICPS vice president, I would do everything possible to make the organzation as welcoming and useful to CP enthusiasts and experts, regardless of their geography. Ok, I won (thanks to all, mostly US members, probably, who were able to get their votes in on time ). So the offer still stands, I stand open and ready to accept suggestions, criticisms, comments, flames, what have you. I can't promise results, but I can promise effort. Your humble ICPS vice-servant, Jay Lechtman (L235@aol.com) ################### From: Philip Thomas Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 15:34:09 -1000 (HST) Subject: RE: Non-native species >Philip Thomas wrote: > > >>BTW, Hawaii's only NATIVE CP is Drosera anglica (on the island of >>Kauai, probably brought in as a seed on the foot of a migrating >>golden plover). > > >I think I understand the point, but to pick a nit, it seems that >Hawaii's only NATIVE CP was introduced by a bird. So, in a >situation like this (land formed by volcanic action), are native >species those introduced by non-humans, and invaders introduced by >humans? Precisely BY DEFINITION native species are those NOT introduced by humans ("invaders"--a term usually used for particularly "bad" weeds/other species--are a subset of non-natives, in this context). >Obviously, for an island like Kauai to have any plants (or animals) >they would have to have been introduced at some time or other. You >could make the point (call it sophistry if you want, I don't mind) >that since humans also arose through evolution, (or creation, which >would lead to a different line of argument) they are part of nature >and so their actions should be considered different from other >creatures only to the extent that they are so capable of changing >things. I think that is a very eloquent summary of how I feel about a very sticky topic. However, Homo sapiens in most of historic time (including all of "modern history") is certainly this creature with ability to change this MUCH MORESO than ANY OTHER SPECIES. The difference between native species and introduced (non-native) species can be expressed in terms of RATE OF INTRODUCTION/RATE OF CHANGE OF RATE OF INTRODUCTION. The rate of change of introductions is MANY ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE GREATER than historically (geologic time); biological evolution simply can't keep up with the current rate of "introductions". (e.g. there are [to orders of magnitude] 1,000 native flowering plants in Hawaii, which have arrived/evolved over a period of over 7,000,000 years, vs. 10,000 introductions in the past 200 years. Many of these plants are from areas of well-developed, ecologically "full" continental ecosystems [e.g. SE Asia, S. Africa, S. America] where intense competition has been "selected for" for millions of years, and they have arrived into an "ecologically barren" region with MUCH fewer/very different types of pressures. Many of these (e.g. Pennisetum setaceum on the Big Island) dominate landscapes/entire ecosystems "INSTANTANEOUSLY" (in geologic time). With this rate of change with this set of diversity swamping "fragile" ecosystems (let's NOT discuss that here; it's a long topic in itself), there's NO CHANCE for "biological evolution" [="natural" forces] to compete. WE LOSE INCREDIBLE BIODIVERSITY. Granted, effects on islands are often more dramatic; Hawaii is perhaps the most dramatic example on the planet (the islands are [well, "were"] more biologically isolated than any other terrestrial system. However, the point is that non-native invasions are neither uncommon nor without dire, long-reaching effects. For a couple more websites with examples of the problems created by non-native species (there is increasing concern nationally and internationally about this topic), see (in addition to http://www2.hawaii.edu/~halesci/AlienSpeciesInHawaii): http://www.tnc.org/science/src/weeds/tncwwmr.htm http://www.nfrcg.gov/nas/ Note also the organizations concerned (The Nature Conservancy, USGS/BRD [formerly the National Biological Service]); this are mainstream, important folks! There are numerous other sites & organizations concerned w/ alien species, these are just to getyou started. Thanks for the discussion & interest; I encourage you to do what you can to help curtail these problems. Though this thread is not directly talking about CP, it IS directly relevant, for much CP habitat is directly impacted (negatively, I might add) by alien species on an international scale. -Philip Thomas Research Associate Research Corp. of Univ. Hawaii Hawaiian Ecosystems at Risk Project ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Philip A. Thomas - thomasp@maui.com OR halesci@hawaii.edu P.O. Box 1272 - Puunene, Maui, Hawaii 96784 USA voice: (808) 572-9306 ext. 3233 fax: (808) 572-1304 http://www.maui.com/~thomasp/PhilipAnthonyThomas # Opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent ## ## the views of USGS/BRD, RCUH, CPSU, UH, or anyone besides just me!# ################### From: Philip Thomas Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 15:44:06 -1000 (HST) Subject: RE: Extinction Truth is, that there is concern even in USFWS offices (officially responsible for listing/recovery of endangered species) about the PERCEPTION that if something is available as ex situ propagated material that it is "okay" and so it's "more okay" (for developers) to destroy/"mitigate" (often synonymous) the (often only or one-=of-few) remaining site "in the wild." USFWS people aren't the ones who have this perception, but developers certainly try to make this case -- and when only part of the story is presented, it can (unfortunately) sound pretty convincing to the general public. -pt ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Philip A. Thomas - thomasp@maui.com OR halesci@hawaii.edu P.O. Box 1272 - Puunene, Maui, Hawaii 96784 USA voice: (808) 572-9306 ext. 3233 fax: (808) 572-1304 http://www.maui.com/~thomasp/PhilipAnthonyThomas # Opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent ## ## the views of USGS/BRD, RCUH, CPSU, UH, or anyone besides just me!# ################### From: "Zachary Kaufman" Date: 6 Jan 1997 03:57:05 -0000 Subject: N. khasiana under flourescent lights I have no problem growing N. khasiana under flourescent lights (one flourescent tube a Phyllips Agro and the other a cool white). potting mix: mixture of long fiber sphagnum moss, perlite, orchid bark, lava rock (all in all, a very open mix) prefered temperature range: They seem to do best with temps in the range of 70-85F --Zachary-- --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- ################### From: Mark van Kleunen Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 08:30:16 +0100 Subject: Re: cell stains >At 01:23 AM 1/4/97 -0800, you wrote: >>Today I flattened a bladderwort bladder between a cover slip and a slide >>to view it under a microscope at home. Unfortunately, the cells >>were rather difficult to see. Does anyone know of something >>around the house or readily available that can be used as a stain for >>cells? >>Thanks, >>--Zachary-- Zachary, Different substances are used to stain different kinds of plant material (lignin, cork etc.). You might incubate the bladderworts in blue toluidine which stains cellulose. However, I do not think you can find it around the house. >Hi Zachary, > >I seem to remember from high school biology that liquid iodine (used for >cuts and scrapes) was a stain. Then again I could be mistaken :-) > >Hope this will help, >John in Phoenix Iodine is used to stain starch, I don't think the bladderworts will contain much starch. But you can try it since it is easier to get than toluidine. Good luck, Mark van Kleunen ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 08:48:46 Subject: Re: ?D.peltata? Dear Dave & Peter, > > I was able to count six green yet hairy > > sepals and six petals but If your plant has a corm, this number is clearly an aberration. But this kind of thing is not at all unusual in _Drosera_. The plant "meant" 5 but by "mistake" produced 6. Did you count the styles (should be 3 at the base)? > > Anyway, there are only two flowers and Jan's key calls for > > around ten. The key wants 5-20 but poor (cultivated) specimens could have less. Anyway, the differences between many of the recently described forms and _D. peltata_ proper are in some cases so weak that their distinctness is in some cases rather doubtful. All of the new forms were described from W AU, and the respective author is not necessarily familiar with the species and its variability on a global scale. > > What I did come up with is D.salina... Did it have: "Lamina of basal leaves flabellate, folded, (...) erect stem flexuous" as noted in the key? > The sepals sound more like peltata too - D.salina has glabrous sepals > according to Lowrie, while peltata's are dotted with terete-stalked > glands. The extent of indumentum and ciliature of the sepals in _D. peltata_ is very variable, as has been demonstrated by the only thorough investigation on this topic by Barry J. Conn, so I have used this character for determinative purposes only very reluctantly. _D. peltata subsp. pletata_ has "hairy or glabrous" sepals, already subsp. _auriculata_ has "glabrous" ones (cf. the mentioned key). Kind regards Jan ################### From: James Lavin Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 01:04:03 -0700 (MST) Subject: Hello I would like to introduce myself as a new member of the CP listserv. My name is James Lavin, and I am a student at a Colorado high school. Currently I am doing work with callus growth from plant tissue samples, and decided to explore carnivorous plants as a possible direction for my research. I had read that the natural CP's are being destroyed and thus am working on re-introducing plants through somatic embryogenesis. If anyone has any information concerning this, please E-mail me at: jlavin@kadets.d20.co.edu. Thank you, James Lavin ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 09:03:35 Subject: Re: ??D.diels. * D. sp. Trans.?? Dear Dave & Peter, > I hear it's > self-fertile? and that the sp. 'Transvaal' may be D.collinsiae? (I > think that was it, or maybe affinis...) I can't remember who I > heard this from - came up in Email a couple of months ago. _D. affinis_ is from tropical AF and not known from Transvaal, so the former is much more probable (even the type specimen of _D. collinsiae_ being from Transvaal). It could also be an aberrant form of the widespread and rather variable _D. madagascariensis_. I also think the juvenile plants are not representative, and any similarity with _D. spatulata_ and _D. capensis_ will (hopefully) disappear after a while. > It goes to show these S.African Drosera are a complex group! I don't think so unless excessive splitting is applied. They are certainly more complex than the EU, AS, or temperate N AM species but both S AM and especially AU present definitely much more problems. Kind regards Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 09:25:09 Subject: Re: Pronounce Latin Dear Laurent, What you propose is Italian but it has little to do with Latin. Thus, it is nearly as good or bad as French or German (i.e. perhaps a little more uniform than English). As I have written previously, Italian has some specific pronounciation rules developed after the decline of the Roman Empire, and these do in the first line affect the letter C. In fact, all Romance languages have their own rules in this respect, some of which being specific. The only fact in common is the difference between modern and Latin pronounciation (which in itself was not as homogeneous as we might think). > The 'A' in > all these examples is the european 'a' like in...'America'. But "America" has two "a"s, and they might be pronounced differently by some Europeans! I would even call our British fellows European (no insult intended!) although they might not consider themselves as continental. Kind regards Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 09:44:54 Subject: Re: Madagascar Dear Cindy, The _Nepenthes_ are nice but rather well-known and either +/- established in cultivation or endangered so visiting them is simple tourism (or worse). Much more interesting is the endemic _Drosera humbertii_, apparently a relative of _D. capensis_ from S AF but very little studied and rather little known. According to the protologue, it was collected on the "Marojejy Massif E summit, W Upper Manantenina". Another rather interesting species is _Genlisea margaretae_ (also known from Zambia and Tanzania) which was previously known from and has recently been rediscovered in Madagascar (under the synonym G. recurva). Bonne chance! Kind regards Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 10:09:51 Subject: Re: _Nepenthes_ naming Dear Doug, > Firstly I have a plant > labelled N. spectabilis x bongso, should that now be labelled as N. > spectabilis x talangensis? Is bongso a synonym for talangensis? If so > does this mean that the name N. bongso should theoretically become > obsolete, or does N. bongso refer to a distinct morphological > subgrouping within the species, N. talangensis? _N. talangensis_ is a valid name for *SOME* plants which have been *CONFUSED* with _N. bongso_ (also still a valid name!) in the past. So it depends on what was the parent species. Read the protologue of _N. talangensis_ carefully and see if you can decide what is the correct name (_N. bongso_ or _N. talangensis_). Then adjust your lables. > I also have a plant > labelled N. rafflesiana x stenophylla, should this plant also be > relabelled as N. rafflesiana x fallax? If so should the name N. > stenophylla be used for this species or should it be replaced by N. > fallax in all nepenthes collections? _N. fallax_ is the correct name for *SOME* plants that have been *CONFUSED* with _N. stenophylla_ in the past. Unfortunately the one who confused them was DANSER (the _Nepenthes_ emperor) himself. He did not know the type of _N. stenophylla_ which looks rather different. Few subscribers of the cp list will have access to the protologue or type of _N. stenophylla_ (however, you should have or create access to Danser's text if you want to identify _Nepenthes_), so here some problems could arise. With Danser's text at your disposal, look if your plant looks like _N. fusca_. If this is the case and your plants are not from Kalimantan (Indonesian Borneo), then you probably have _N. stenophylla_. If the plant looks like what Danser has (erroneously) depicted and described as "N. stenophylla", then your plant is definitely _N. fallax_. Hybrids are frequently rather difficult to identify so rather try to trace the parent species. > My next query is in relation to the identification of seedlings > that may arise from a nepenthes cross > I have done between a female N. rafflesiana (white) with the pollen > from N rafflesiana(brunei) x N. rafflesiana (singapore giant). This > should produce the species N. rafflesiana. It is highly improbable or > impossible that such a cross would take place in nature. Should such > crosses (I use the word loosely) be assigned cultivar names to > seperate them from naturally occuring variations within the same > species? Yes if you want to give them a name to distinguish them from other clones. > I last query is unfortunately about a plant or plants that I > do not own and if the exploitation of nepenthes in the wild continues > may in fact never get to see. Are N. aristolochioides and N. tudjah > one and the same? If so which is the correct name? None. Supposedly, "N. aristolochioides" will be validated sometimes (we are waiting since two years...) and will then be the correct name. "N. spec. "Tudjuh"" is only a bogus name (for the same species) indicating the locality. It has no nomenclatural significance whatsoever. Kind regards Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 11:09:07 Subject: Re: Carnivorous Orchids Dear Danny & al., > As far as we know the traps of all CP are leaves rather than flowers. A > carnivorous flower would be selective against pollinators, provided that it > offers a reward to visitors. Orchids do not seem to offer any reward and > are therefore unlikely to have developed carnivory. Many do, however, > exploit insects for pollination by mimicry. The case with no reward whatsoever in orchids is not entirely true (how could it be so in a family as awfully large and diverse as this?). There are species producing nectar (i.e. nutritional rewards, e.g. many of the spurred species). Some species (especially of Stanhopeinae) produce and secrete "perfume" which is collected by male individuals of certain insect species (e.g. solitary bees) which pollinate them. The males in turn attract their respective females with this olfactory lure for reasons everyone on this list will be able to imagine... Last but not least, orchids reward us by the beauty of their flowers and several are in the meanwhile exclusively pollinated by _Homo sapiens_. > Does anybody know of mycorrhiza in CP? Might the absence of > specific fungi be a reason for difficulties we have in growing > certain CP? Yes, perhaps. Maybe it is even the reason for the difficulties they had in nature so that acquisition of carnivorous properties was an evolutionary advantage. Lentibulariaceae, a family perhaps derived from aquatic ancestors (Scrophulariales are parasitic rather than mycorrhizal, anyway), seems to be entirely non-mycorrhizal. The "extended caryophyllid clade" with _Nepenthes_, _Triphyophyllum_, _Drosophyllum_, and Droseraceae contains naphthoquinones which seem to "protect" from fungal contacts rather efficiently. The instance of root fungi mentioned for _Nepenthes mirabilis_ may be the rare exception rather than the rule. So at least the greatest bulk of cp species seem to be essentially non-mycorrhizal. I have no information on Sarraceniaceae, _Byblis_, or _Cephalotus_. No mycorrhiza could be found in dried or living specimens of _Roridula_ although Marloth has mentioned associated fungi. But on the other hand _Roridula_ is only sub- carnivorous, either. Kind regards Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 11:18:12 Subject: Re: Identify this Nepenthes please Dear Clarke, > I've just uploaded a page with a picture of a Nepenthes on it. This > was one of several unrooted cuttings which Andreas Wistuba sent me > about a year ago. I managed to root 4 in total (not bad for a > beginner, and in the depths of Winter too), but this one is the most > notable so far, having soon developed these attractive pitchers. The picture is not very detailed but it looks as if the lid had an appendage on the lower surface at its distal end. This would indicate that you have _N. maxima_ or a hybrid or relative thereof. Kind regards Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 12:22:01 Subject: Re: CP's in the tropics ? Dear Jorge, > Currently I live in Costa Rica (about 10 lat), in San Jose which > is about 1000 m above sea level (~3000 ft for people in the US). I would > like to know: > > 1-) Is there any CP which's natural habitat is around my country or > country's characteristics ? If you mean the tropics with "your country's characteristics", I can assure you that more than 70% of all known cps grow under these conditions (less than 30 lat). In Costa Rica so far only representatives of the genus _Utricularia_ have been found to constitute the carnivorous flora: _U. amethystina_, _U. endresii_, _U. foliosa_, _U. gibba_, _U. hydrocarpa_, _U. jamesoniana_, _U. praetermissa_, _U. purpurea_, _U. pusilla_, _U. subulata_, _U. unifolia_. None is endemic. Some are weeds. I would guess that there are chances to discover at least one species of _Drosera_ (e.g. _D. capillaris_) there but I do not know of any record. Kind tropical regards from rather temperate Germany (15 cm snow today) Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 12:47:06 Subject: Re: biogeographical studies Dear Mervyn, > I am writing this to enquire if anybody knows of or has any > litterature regarding the biogeographical and evolutionary affinities > of cp's specifically Drosera. Biogeographical affinities of _Drosera_ have been discussed by Diels in his monograph on the genus. The chorology of the European representatives is treated in Meusel & al., Chorologie der zentraleuropaeischen Flora. Palynology is mentioned by Krutzsch in a series of papers (if you are interested in this mainly European stuff, I could look up some refs.). A few scattered pollen records from the S hemisphere are also hidden in the pertinent literature. Evolutionary affinities have been rather disputed but I think that recent (genetical, anatomical, palynological, phytochemical, etc.) research has set at least an orientation mark inasmuch as _Drosera_ is in fact most closely related to _Aldrovanda_ and _Dionaea_, these genera constituting Droseraceae s.str.. _Drosophyllum_ is also related but falls closer to an exclusively tropical group constituted by Dioncophyllaceae and Ancistrocladaceae. "Somehow" related (but not as intimately so as in the preceding examples) are also Nepenthaceae, Plumbaginaceae, Polygonaceae, and probably Frankeniaceae and Tamaricaceae. Together these form a sister clade to Caryophyllidae s. str. For abstracts cf. Cameron & al., Am. J. Bot. 82:117 (1995), Albert & Stevenson, Am. J. Bot. 83:135 (1996). I have submitted a ms. to CPN but this was not published yet (or was it? does someone have the December issue?). Full papers: Albert & al., Science 257:1491-1495 (1992), Williams & al., Am. J. Bot. 81:1027-1037 (1994). Kind regards Jan ################### From: Phill Cook Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 15:12:37 +0000 (GMT) Subject: A question about Drosophyllum! Firstly thanks to everyone who helped me out last year, especially to Clark Brunt (?) who sent me some seeds of Darlingtonia. Last year I asked about germinating Drosophyllum, and received lots of good advice (*thanks*). Following it, something germinated after about a week. However, although its roughly in the right place in the pot, I'm not convinced its a Droso. Obviously the baby leaves it germinates with (sorry, the scientific name for them escapes me, but I'm just not a botanist!) will not be carnivorous, but should all of the following leaves be? This plant has also put on two or three other leaves and they are certianly not what one would expect an adult Drosophyllum leaf to look like. All help would be useful; I don't want to be carefully tending a weed! Have a good new year, Phillip Cook ################### From: Wayne Forrester Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 08:29:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: A question about Drosophyllum! Hi Phill, Given my extensive experience with cultivating Drosophyllum, I think I can answer your question. I planted four of the seeds I received from Glenn Rankin, and had a single seed germinate and grow successfully (Thanks Glenn. I'm so excited I check the little plant every day to watch it's progress). I never saw any non-carnivorous leaves produced on this plant at germination and don't know whether this is typical, or perhaps they were produced but did not break the surface of the soil. Anyway, all the leaves have been exactly as expected. The first leaves I saw were about an inch in length and had plenty of "dew" covering their surfaces, and all subsequent leaves have looked the same, although they were much longer. I hate to say it, but it sounds like you have a weed growing. It took 5 or 6 weeks for mine to germinate, so perhaps you just need to wait longer. Hope this helps. Wayne Forrester On Mon, 6 Jan 1997, Phill Cook wrote: > > > Firstly thanks to everyone who helped me out last year, especially > to Clark Brunt (?) who sent me some seeds of Darlingtonia. > > Last year I asked about germinating Drosophyllum, and received lots > of good advice (*thanks*). Following it, something germinated > after about a week. However, although its roughly in the right > place in the pot, I'm not convinced its a Droso. Obviously the > baby leaves it germinates with (sorry, the scientific name for them > escapes me, but I'm just not a botanist!) will not be carnivorous, > but should all of the following leaves be? This plant has also put > on two or three other leaves and they are certianly not what one > would expect an adult Drosophyllum leaf to look like. > > All help would be useful; I don't want to be carefully tending a > weed! > > Have a good new year, > > Phillip Cook > ################### From: Gary Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 11:35:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: Milder than usual SF winter? Hi everyone-- Have any other SF Bay Area CPers noticed anything strange about our winter? I've seen a plum tree in full bloom, and several other trees on my block look like their about to bloom as well. I just clipped a flower stalk from one of my thriving VFTs and a S. leucophylla. What's the deal? Not a single one of my outdoors CPs wants to go dormant or stay dormant. I'm leaving them be for now, but I was wondering if anyone else in the region was having similar experiences and what they are doing about it. Thanks, Gary ################### From: ACArnold@aol.com Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 15:36:11 -0500 Subject: Re: ... In a message dated 05/01/97 01:26:07, you write: > Dear Dave - you're gonna enjoy this... the first N.khasiana I had was in my > all-round semi-epiphytic, barky mix, which goes great for all my other > Nepenthes > whilst the second, peat, sand and bark in roughly equal proportions, it died > too, so..! Just to add my 2p worth - I used to grow N. khasiana quite successfully in a terrarium with about 1 to 1.5 inches of peat with a little charcoal added to 'keep it sweet' as per the instructions on my packet of seed (from Chiltern seeds I think). The terrarium sat on my windowsill at work and got very little attention - faced west approx. Unfortunately, when I went abroad for a while, the users of my office 'forgot' to water at all and they died:-( They wouldn't have won any prizes for size but did have good traps - they didn't get much food either which probably accounts for the size, or lack of it:-) Regards, Adrian ################### From: dave evans Date: Mon, 06 Jan 97 17:23 EST Subject: Re: Re: ?D.peltata? Hi Jan, > If your plant has a corm, this number is clearly an aberration. But > this kind of thing is not at all unusual in _Drosera_. The plant > "meant" 5 but by "mistake" produced 6. Did you count the styles > (should be 3 at the base)? I didn't have the chance to count anything inside the flower... It was very fast at closing up. I must have caught it has the flower was already closing. It (they) have corms, BTW. > The key wants 5-20 but poor (cultivated) specimens could have less. It *appears* quite happy. Of course, it's still under lights, in a pot, ect... (traps are red at the tips so they ought to be getting the right amount of light.) > Anyway, the differences between many of the recently described forms > and _D. peltata_ proper are in some cases so weak that their > distinctness is in some cases rather doubtful. All of the new forms > were described from W AU, and the respective author is not > necessarily familiar with the species and its variability on a global > scale. > > > > What I did come up with is D.salina... > > Did it have: > "Lamina of basal leaves flabellate, folded, (...) erect stem > flexuous" as noted in the key? Flabellate (fan shaped):no, though some do come close. They also didn't match the leaves for D.peltata either but fall somewhere in the middle... The leaves: none are flat and some are folded and the stem is flexuous, but then I can't believe any of the stems on any upright species wouldn't show some bending where the petioles join the stem... How much bending = flexuous? > > The sepals sound more like peltata too - D.salina has glabrous sepals > > according to Lowrie, while peltata's are dotted with terete-stalked > > glands. > > The extent of indumentum and ciliature of the sepals in _D. > peltata_ is very variable, as has been demonstrated by the only > thorough investigation on this topic by Barry J. Conn, so I have > used this character for determinative purposes only very reluctantly. > _D. peltata subsp. pletata_ has "hairy or glabrous" sepals, > already subsp. _auriculata_ has "glabrous" ones (cf. the mentioned > key). I didn't notice what the key mentions about the sepals for D.salina. The sepals did have quite a bit of brown hair on them though. If D.salina is glabrous then this plant is not it. Dave Evans ################### From: dave evans Date: Mon, 06 Jan 97 17:32 EST Subject: Re: A question about Drosophyllum! > From: Phill Cook > > week. However, although its roughly in the right place in the pot, > I'm not convinced its a Droso. Obviously the baby leaves it > germinates with (sorry, the scientific name for them escapes me, > but I'm just not a botanist!) will not be carnivorous, but should > all of the following leaves be? This plant has also put on two or > three other leaves and they are certianly not what one would expect > an adult Drosophyllum leaf to look like. This one is for Jan. When the three seeds sprouted in my Droso pot, the first thing I noticed was: the cotyledon (baby leaves) have traps! Anyway, as I thought about it, I figured perhaps they don't develop and are "absorbed" into the stem before the plant becomes visible. If not, then even the cotyledon for this genus are carnivorous! (Unlikely, but if true, another good reason they're not related to Drosera). Dave Evans ################### From: Glenn Rankin Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 14:59:45 PST Subject: Re: A question about Drosophyllum! When I've bothered to look, I have found that no cotyledons appear for Drosophyllum seedlings. The seedcoat is retained by two very short projections (cotyledons that never shed the seedcoat?) that attach at right angles to the main plant, which is stem and leaves above and root below. FWIW, I have read that the same occurs for tuberous drosera: ie if the seedling has cotyledons it is not a tuberous drosera. Glenn > > > > From: Phill Cook > > > > week. However, although its roughly in the right place in the > > pot, I'm not > > convinced its a Droso. Obviously the baby leaves it germinates > > with (sorry, the scientific name for them escapes me, but I'm > > just not a botanist!) will not be carnivorous, but should all of > > the following leaves be? This plant has also put on two or three > > other leaves and they are certianly not what one would expect an > > adult Drosophyllum leaf to look like. > > > This one is for Jan. When the three seeds sprouted in my Droso > pot, the first thing I noticed was: the cotyledon (baby leaves) > have traps! Anyway, as I thought about it, I figured perhaps they > don't develop and are "absorbed" into the stem before the plant > becomes visible. If not, then even the cotyledon for this genus > are carnivorous! (Unlikely, but if true, another good reason > they're not related to Drosera). > > Dave Evans > ################### From: Phil Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 22:41:11 GMT Subject: Re: Re: ?D.peltata? In your message dated Saturday 4, January 1997 you wrote : > In message <199701032340.AA007704833@jr.hpl.hp.com> cp@hplb.hpl.hp.com writes: > dave evans writes: > ... > > Anyway, the first one flowered today and I tried out Jan's > > new Drosera key. This is when my HEADACHE started. (it's still > > going strong, BTW.) I was able to count six green yet hairy > > sepals and six petals but in the time from moving the plant out > > from under the light and counting the petals, the flower closed. > > I put it back under the lights, it re-openned. I took it back > > out and it closed up again, just after I got a glimpse inside! > > Anyway, there are only two flowers and Jan's key calls for > > around ten. What I did come up with is D.salina... The petals > > are white, and I've been told that D.peltata is always pink. > > I've heard of white-flowering D.peltata (though mine are all > pink,) - these might be misidentified, but it's quite a variable > species, I guess because it ranges so far. Perhaps you've got a > Japanese or NZ plant, which I'd expect to show the most divergence > from the norm. I doubt it's D.salina - this one's a flat rosette > producing a much shorter climbing stem - no more than 3 or 4 inches > compared to twice that or more for D.peltata (I've got one that's 13 > inches tall ATM!, but that's unusual.) Lowrie also shows D.salina as > being 5-petalled and 5-staminate, so it would be as abberant for this > species as D.peltata. I've not kept this one long enough to flower, > so I can't comment on variation in floral structures. > I also find more variety in D.peltata flowering than the books or > Jan's key indicates - anything from 0 to 10 or so flowers per plant, > though the flowers may not all appear at once, and it doesn't appear > to be consistent by original location or even individual tuber, but > rather (probably,) a response to cultivation conditions. > The sepals sound more like peltata too - D.salina has glabrous sepals > according to Lowrie, while peltata's are dotted with terete-stalked > glands. > Dave, Peter, Jan, There certainly are white flowered plants of D. peltata. Plants from the South Australia area are green in colour, seem to be generally more robust and vigorous and have white flowers. The form which grows in Western Australia seems to be smaller, less vigorous and has a reddish colour. So weak is the Western Australian plant that I have never yet managed to keep it for more than one season. I have no experiance with the Japanese plants but the New Zealand plants also have subtle differences. Mainly the stem and the foliage are more delicate but the plants are as tall growing (if not taller) than their South Australian cousins. All my New Zealand plants have pink flowers. Regarding the number of flowers on a plant, this will inevitably vary according to the age of the plant and it's general condition. I would suggest that your plant is probably either a juvenille or it did not react as well as it should to being uprooted. From seed D. peltata can be pretty vigorous. I have had plants flower in the same year that they germinated - almost unheard of in the tiberous Drosera world. Regarding the differences between D. auriculata and D. peltata I would agree that sepal difference (glabrous D. auriculata, hairy D. peltata) is consistent. However, the appearence of a basal rosette is not (IMO) a consistent indicator. I have not only plants of D. auriculata which produce a basal rosette but I also have plants which will produce one in some years and in other years won't. -- Phil Wilson (cp@pwilson.demon.co.uk) ################### From: "Demetrio Lamzaki" Date: Tue, 7 Jan 97 01:51:11 UT Subject: Wet Winter >Have any other SF Bay Area CPers noticed anything strange >about our winter? Yes, we've gotten more rain in one week than we get all winter during most years! :-O Congratulations to everyone who's managed to keep your head above the water line. The sky has recently cleared up and the sun has finally returned, but now the fun starts, as if we didn't get wet enough the first time around the run-off from the melting snow on the Sierras is overflowing the rivers and breaking levies as I write this. This is the worst flooding we've had since I've been here. I hope everybody out there made it through O.K. Take care, Demetrios ################### From: Alastair Robinson <100611.1627@CompuServe.COM> Date: 06 Jan 97 21:30:43 EST Subject: Re:Drosophyllum I have never seen a Drosophyllum "in the flesh", but from its appearance I have always assumed that it was monocotyledonous as opposed to being a dicot?? - thus surely it would not bear 'seed leaves' as people might expect but have at most, if not emergent directly from the seed, a coleoptile? Puzzled, Alastair. ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 19:02:32 -0800 Subject: RE: home cell stain Dear Zachary, > Today I flattened a bladderwort bladder between a cover slip and a > slide to view it under a microscope at home. Unfortunately, the cells > were rather difficult to see. Does anyone know of something around > the house or readily available that can be used as a stain for cells? You might try an iodine solution from the drug store. It should turn all starchy structures a nice purple color. If you want to get a bit fancier, try Edmund Scientific: 1-609-573-6250 Deluxe Slide exploration kit: itme M52,805 $29.95. All the basic accessories required to preapre biological specimens for micrscopic examinati. Kit includes 20 blank slides, 3 prepared slides, 3 culture slides, scalpel, needle, probe, tweezers, eye dropper, cover glasses, labels, shrimp eggs, color salt powder, dry yeast, glue, **** eosin, methylene blue and safranine dye. **** ES Specimen staining kit: item M36,186 $21.95. Includes 11 blank slides, 1 well slide, 12 cover glasses, glue, labels, eye dropper and o *** dyes: eosin (red), methylene blue, safranine, and fast green. *** -- Rick Walker ################### From: Aaron Hicks Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 20:12:55 -0700 (MST) Subject: Nitrogen uptake *SNIP! I was asked by an ecologist friend how she might measure the *nitrogen budget of a carnivorous pitcher plant. She wants to know how efficiently nitrogen-containing compounds from the decaying/digesting prey in the pitcher are absorbed and utilized by the plant. *SNIP!* This was snipped from a missive from a prof at my alma mater; he suggests that labeled nitrogen is not viable (their NMR is only 80 Mhz), and that GC-MS would be a bear due to sample workup. Anybody have any suggested techniques for determining nitrogen uptake in Sarracenias? -AJHicks Wonk Socorro, NM ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 07:59:43 Subject: Re: Re: ?D.peltata? Dear Phil, > Regarding the differences between D. auriculata and D. peltata I would > agree that sepal difference (glabrous D. auriculata, hairy D. > peltata) is consistent. So *please* read the Conn paper to believe the opposite. Kind regards Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 08:10:05 Subject: Re:Drosophyllum Dear Alastair, > I have never seen a Drosophyllum "in the flesh", but from its appearance > I have always assumed that it was monocotyledonous as opposed to > being a dicot?? - thus surely it would not bear 'seed leaves' as > people might expect but have at most, if not emergent directly from > the seed, a coleoptile? Sorry to disappoint you but _Drosophyllum_ is a very straightforward dicot without any trace of coleoptiles or that like. In fact there are very few if any monocots with reverse circinate vernation, and I don't think any has abaxial stalked mucilage glands. Also, the flowers are in standard dicot proportions. So there is really at the most a very very slight resemblance to monocots in _Drosophyllum_. Kind regards Jan ################### From: PAULBOURBIN@delphi.com Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 02:14:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: The mild winter in San Francisco Hi Gary et al. I have also noticed that plants are not acting normally this winter. Acacia and broom are blooming now (ruining my winter break from hayfever) as are quite a few cp. I have noticed that plant behavior has become more erratic since the end of the last drought. In spite of my best efforts, many cp will not go dormant. In fact, some of my Nepenthes are doing better now than in what passed for last summer. CP must experience occasional mild winters in their native habitats. Hopefully our cp will too. Paul Bourbin ################### From: Gilles Lardy Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 11:53:42 +0100 (MET) Subject: Looking for Rickie in HK... Hi everybody, Would anybody have the e-mail address of Rickie Leung in HK, since I have lost it ? Thanks ################### From: "M Dunlop" Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 12:53:32 +0000 Subject: PLEASE RESPOND EVERYONE PRIVATELY TO STEALTH@ICAN.NET Hi there!!!!! I'm looking for a broad range of people to answer this survey and e-mail this filled out form to: stealth@ican.net This survey is to help me complete my thesis for my Honours Bachelor of Science in Forestry. When answering the yes/no questions please feel free to add your own comments. When answering the multiple choice please (X) the appropriate answer. Please answer the questions to the best of your knowledge. If you have any questions or further comments please feel free to e-mail me at the address above. 1. Where do you live? (Province and City) 2. What do you do for a living? 3. How old are you? 4. What was the last grade that you completed? 5. What is your definition of a forest ( )a) a source of timber ( )b) a source of food ( )c) a place for recreation ( )d) habitat for plants and animals ( )e) a source of economic gain ( )f) other please specify 6. Do you use the forest for anything? (yes/no) 6b. If yes, please list what you use the forest for (hunting, fishing, hiking etc.). 7. What is the greatest threat to the forest ( )a) logging ( )b) pollution ( )c) forest fires and insects ( )d) human intervention in nature ( )e) other please specify 8. Do you feel we are degrading the forest? (yes/no) 9. Do you feel we are protecting the forest? (yes/no) 10. Do you feel that we should be using the forest for economic gain? (yes/no) 11. Do you think we are planting enough trees? (yes/no) 12. Do you think the forest industry or the government should be responsible for planting trees (reforestation)? (yes/no) 13. What would you consider good reforestation practices ( )a) planting the same species of trees ( )b) planting different species of trees in the same area ( )c) allowing the forest to return naturally 14. Do you think the forest industry needs regulating by the government? (yes/no) 15. If yes, why? 16. Should we be managing our forests? (yes/no) 17. If yes, what do you consider good management policies ( )a) managing for economic gain ( )b) managing for recreation i.e. fishing, hunting ( )c) managing for a diverse forest i.e. different plants and animals ( )d) managing for conservation of the forest and it's resources ( )e) other please specify 18. Do you think the forest industry is doing enough to protect the environment? (yes/no) 19. Is there any harvesting/logging in your area? (yes/no) 20. Is the forest industry harvesting (cutting) too many trees, just enough trees, or too few trees? 21. Do you think clearcutting is a good forest practice? (yes/no) 22. Do you think clearcuts are ( )a) too widely used ( )b) used just enough ( )c) not used enough 23. Should we allow harvesting in old growth forests? (yes/no) 24. If yes, who should regulate the amount cut ( )a) the forest industry ( )b) the government ( )c) the public 25. Do you think there are too many logging roads? (yes/no) 26. Do you think the logging roads give us too much access to the forest? (yes/no) 27. If yes or no please explain. 28. If an educational program on forestry practices and the forest industry were to become available in your area would you attend? (yes/no) A) if yes, why? B) if no, why not? 29. Would you become involved with the forest industry if public involvement was encouraged? (yes/no) A) if yes, why? B) if no, why not? 30. If you could attend a course/seminar on forestry what would you like to see covered? THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. If you know any one else who wouldn't mind taking the time to fill out this survey I would really appreciate their input.. ################### From: Rand Nicholson Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 17:53:15 -0400 Subject: Re: PLEASE RESPOND EVERYONE PRIVATELY TO STEALTH@ICAN.NET > Hi there!!!!! I'm looking for a broad range of people to >answer this survey and e-mail this filled out form to: > > stealth@ican.net > > This survey is to help me complete my thesis for my >Honours Bachelor of Science in Forestry. What is this? Aside from the _personal_ information requested, I also do not like the the last few questions. I am not just being crabby (so what if I am?). I get enough E-junk already from sources I have never heard of with better (supposed) reasons for asking personal questions than this. This may, indeed, be innocuous; but I'll take a pass. Rand ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 15:27:36 -0700 Subject: CPN on the Web Hello all.... I've completed and uploaded a link for CPN on the web. I would like to get feedback from any who look at it. It has server-side and client-side image maps. While I know they work for netscape, I don't know how the page looks for other browsers. In the future I will list "articles in this quarter's issue." Not the articles themselves, of course, but rather a list of the titles as a teaser to encourage subscribers. The sites are at http://www.indirect.com/www/bazza/cps/cpn/cpn.html with a mirror site (netscape only, for now) at http://mips3.as.arizona.edu/~barry/cps/cpn/cpn.html Barry ################### From: A.Falshaw@irl.cri.nz (Andy Falshaw) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:28:48 GMT+1200 Subject: Nitrogen uptake The usual way would be to use radiolabelled stuff, or a stable iso