################### From: jcavanau@indyunix.iupui.edu (john e. cavanaugh) Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 12:08:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: sphagnum, sphagnum, alive, alive-O! Dear CPers: I know this is slightly tangential, but what are people's experience growing/keeping live sphagnum moss? My readings and intuition indicate that wetter is better, but mine has always died under such conditions (the S. purpurea and S. leukophyllia are fine, thank you). I have gotten a new batch and instead of drowning it, I have put it in pots, on top of saturated milled peat, then placed the pots in an aquarium with 2 inches of reverse-osmosed H2O. Half the pots have been placed directly on the bottom, in the water, while half have been placed on top of inverted pots similar to the way orchids are grown. I placed 2-inches of live moss in a pot without the milled peat and placed it directly in the water at the bottom of the tank so that it is "swimming". Noticable differences were seen in health and green-ness after only one day! It remains to be seen if the "humidity-only" moss actually grows better and healthier in the long run, but it's sure prettier. Does anyone have any thoughts or experiences to share? Thanks, John E. Cavanaugh, MD, Fellow Division of Forensic Pathology Indiana University School of Medicine ################### From: "J. Mario Montero" Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 11:47:34 -0800 Subject: CP's in the tropics ? Hello CP people ! My name is Jorge Montero and recently joined CP list. I have a couple of questions regarding CP and the area I live in. Currently I live in Costa Rica (about 10 lat), in San Jose which is about 1000 m above sea level (~3000 ft for people in the US). I would like to know: 1-) Is there any CP which's natural habitat is around my country or country's characteristics ? 2-) Can I get these CP species here in Costa Rica ? (I am aware of CITES regulations might make it difficult to import them) 3-) Hey a good book for starters. Thank you in advance to all who respond (my private email please) Jorge M. Montero. ################### From: "A. Griesser" Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 14:51:43 +0000 Subject: CP food I have been feeding my VFT mealoworms with excellent results. Perhaps other cp growers can suggest better insects. Mealworm pupae are easy and inexpensive to raise odorless and easy to contain eliminate overfertilization paranoia lack cp-damaging mouthparts are easy to feed to plants because they lack legs have relatively little difficult to digest chitin are a size suitable for relatively small VFT Mealworms (Tenebrio molitor) can be purchased from pet stores. Dump them in a shoebox sized plastic or metal container with about a half pound of wheat bran. To avoid fungi, do not put a lid on them: they can not fly or climb, even as adults. Add a couple of slices of peeled apple or potato every 3 or 4 days. Add bran so they always have a few inches. When the frass becomes too deep, pour the top layer of bran and insects into another container and add more bran to the frass, which probably contains plenty of eggs. After they have become adults and reproduced, the adults should be removed to another container or they will cannibalize the defenseless pupae. (The adults do not seem to bother the larvae.) If you want to feed larvae to your plants, you may want to use those which have just shed their exoskeletons, because they have less chitin. Sorting though the bran to find freshly moulted insects is tedious. If you put them in your refigerator, they will continue to grow until they need to moult, which they apparently can not do at low temperatures. When you remove them from the refrigerator, a large fraction of them will moult at one time. "Giant Mealworms" (Zophobas (sp?) species) may be tempting for larger cp, but I do not know how to rear them. ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 18:07:57 +0100 Subject: Identify this Nepenthes please I wonder if those of you who are web-equipped could take a look at http://www.brunt.demon.co.uk/cp/nepenthes.html I've just uploaded a page with a picture of a Nepenthes on it. This was one of several unrooted cuttings which Andreas Wistuba sent me about a year ago. I managed to root 4 in total (not bad for a beginner, and in the depths of Winter too), but this one is the most notable so far, having soon developed these attractive pitchers. Once we have a name, then I'd be quite happy for the picture to be added to the CP database, or perhaps I could take a better one. -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) ################### From: Johannes.Marabini@t-online.de (Johannes Marabini) Date: Wed, 01 Jan 1997 19:36:24 +0100 Subject: Re:Nepenthes soils Hallo all, In a message dated 96-12-19 10:01:38 EST, you write: > The plants in nature _must_ grow faster than this. If not, then the > seedlings would be overwhelmed by the myriad other plants that grow in > such a warm and humid environment. I find it so hard to believe that a > N. edwardsiana seedling in its natural habitat would take over five > years to grow maybe a half meter. Trees grow faster than that! > > So, to repeat, is anyone aware of detailed studies concerning soils in > Nepenthes habitats? > > Does anyone have suggestions or comments about speeding the growth of > N. edwardsiana and N. villosa? I saw N.edwardsiana several times at locations on G.Trusmadi and these plants were very large! I measured one plant and it was 22 meters! long. A part of it was creeping through the very thick moss, the last 1/4 was climbing in the low trees. I also saw seedlings growing in the moss with 12 cm long internodi. On the other hand I have plants of N.edwardsiana grown from seeds since 1991 and they are now 25 cm in diameter. And the N.rajah which you can see in my homepage is also 6 years old (from tissue culture) and 60 cm in diam. Another N.rajah, 4 years is 6cm in diam.! If you see the very hard conditions for these highlandspecies at the localities, you will understand, that they cannot grow very fast. In my oppinion this 22 meter long edwardsiana is over 15 years old. And I believe, that the plants need min. 5-8 years to flower. On the summit you have fog or rain nearly all the time. I measured the lowest temperature on Trusmadi with -2 degr.Celsius! There werde ice-pearls on our tents. And when the sun will come out during the day you suddenly have a haet of 33 degr. celsius. How will you do this in our greenhouses? Bye Johannes -- Johannes Marabini Sperlingstrasse 10 91315 Hoechstadt/Aisch Germany Tel./Fax 49 9193 4866 @e-mail: mailto:Johannes.Marabini@t-online.de Homepage: ">johannes.marabini@t-online.de/index.htm">http://home.t-online.de/home/[15 ]johannes.marabini@t-online.de/index.htm ------------New Nepenthesphotos!!---------------------------------------------- ------------Updated 30.12.1996------------------------------------------------- ################### From: Russell Elliott Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 16:19:05 -0800 Subject: Re: Care of VFT? Jack McAuliffe wrote: > > Postage paid by: [Image] > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > I just lost my lasted batch of VFT's. I live in Virginia, I was rasing them > indoors, and following all the instructions I recieve at the nursery and > they still didn't last very long. I think perhaps I may be misinformed as > to the successful care of venus flytraps, if anyone could send me detailed > instructions for the care of VFT's, I would be very grateful. Thanks alot. Jack, I was wonderiong if you could tell us exactly how you keep your VFT's. You can find lots of information at: http://randomaccess.unm.edu/www/cp/cparchive.html . There are also many other links at the above site where you can find additional information. Anyway, here are some basic tips: * Don't play with the traps or try to feed your plant dead insects or meat of any kind. * Sit your plant in a tray about 1 inch (2.54 cm) deep. * Give your plant as many hours of direct sunlight as possible. (not if it is in a terrarium, as it will very rapidly burn!) * Use a pot at least 4 inches in diameter. Those little two inch pots the plants are usually sold in are useless. If grown in these for longer than about a year the plants roots will usually rot. There are some of the basics. Hope This helps, Russell Elliott -- *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ! Russell Elliott ! ! Seed Bank Director, ! ! Australian Carnivorous Plant Society ! ! mailto:relliott@geocities.com ! ! mailto:elliott@nexus.edu.au ! *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ################### From: "Christopher Walkden" Date: Thu, 2 Jan 97 11:01:23 UT Subject: re: sphagnum We have sphagnum growing here in our highlands, I visited some on a Geology excursion once. We were taking core samples of a small bog (we had special permision from the appropriate government authorities!) to work out it's shape and recent history. The bog is near Wild Dog River, so we christened it Wild Dog Bog. It turned out that a glacier had carved out the rock about 12,000 years ago, leaving lots of sharp sand on the bottom (our corer couldn't go through anything heavier than sand, so we didn't see below that). Since then the bog has slowly built up with Sphagnum moss and other highland plants. It built up about 5m of peat in 12,000 years! (we carbon dated some peat near the bottom, so that date may be way out). The water level in the bog in the middle of winter was about half a metre below the surface, so it certainly wasn't drowning. We have wet winters and dry summers here. Something that I have noticed with my sphagnum at home is that it grows well over the winter, but struggles during the summer. Up in the highlands the temperature variation would be about -5\260C to 15\260C in the winter, and more like 5\260C to 20\260C in the summer. Down here it is a bit warmer, and gets a lot drier. I suppose the moss doesn't like the drying winds (all my CPs are outside). BTW the moss I am talking about at home is sitting in the tops of the pots of CPs. In the winter it threatens to overwhelm, in the summer it threatens to dry out and die (it goes black and burnt looking on the tips). Christopher Walkden Tasmania Australia. ################### From: "Doug Fraser" Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 21:42:52 +0000 Subject: Nepenthes naming Happy New Year all, I have spent the last few days relabelling my nepenthes as the original tags have faded in some cases. I have a number of queries that I was hoping someone could help me with. Firstly I have a plant labelled N. spectabilis x bongso, should that now be labelled as N. spectabilis x talangensis? Is bongso a synonym for talangensis? If so does this mean that the name N. bongso should theoretically become obsolete, or does N. bongso refer to a distinct morphological subgrouping within the species, N. talangensis? I also have a plant labelled N. rafflesiana x stenophylla, should this plant also be relabelled as N. rafflesiana x fallax? If so should the name N. stenophyllabe used for this species or should it be replaced by N. fallax in all nepenthes collections? My next query is in relation to the identification of seedlings that may arise from a nepenthes cross I have done between a female N. rafflesiana (white) with the pollen from N rafflesiana(brunei) x N. rafflesiana (singapore giant). This should produce the species N. rafflesiana. It is highly improbable or impossible that such a cross would take place in nature. Should such crosses (I use the word loosely) be assigned cultivar names to seperate them from naturally occuring variations within the same species? I last query is unfortunately about a plant or plants that I do not own and if the exploitation of nepenthes in the wild continues may in fact never get to see. Are N. aristolochioides and N. tudjah one and the same? If so which is the correct name? Please bare with my ignorance as you may be the only one able to correct it. Meryl Fraser Townsville Australia ################### From: Paul Temple 02-Jan-1997 1430 Date: Thu, 2 Jan 97 15:29:13 MET Subject: Re: Can anyone translate the BIBLIOPHILE KOSTBARKEITEN mail? +---------------------------+ TM From: Paul Temple | | | | | | | | Dept: Digital | d | i | g | i | t | a | l | Func: Net Comms | | | | | | | | DTN: 7781-1582 +---------------------------+ Easynet: fangio::temple_p Internet: temple_p@gmt.dec.com Loc/MS: GMT OK I admit it. Despite German heritage I don't speak and can't read the language. So would someone mind translating the German email "BIBLIOPHILE KOSTBARKEITEN" sent on Wed 1 Jan 1997? Thanks if someone does! Regards Paul ################### From: "Phil Semanchuk" pj@glaxowellcome.com> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 97 14:47:01 -0500 Subject: Re: sphagnum, sphagnum, alive, alive-O! > I know this is slightly tangential, but what > are people's experience growing/keeping live > sphagnum moss? My readings and intuition indicate > that wetter is better, but mine has always died > under such conditions This summer I filled a small plastic tray (about 8" x 4"/20cm x 10cm) with water and a handful of peat for acidity and grew some sphagnum in it. The peat was not thick enough to raise the green bits of sphagnum above the water level, so the plants were underwater most of the time. They were only exposed to air when the weather got really dry which didn't happen too often. (We had 60 inches of rain in 1996, four inches short of the most ever recorded). The moss grew fine, that is to say at the end of the summer I had more than I started with. I didn't grow any sphagnum on peat like you did so I can't compare the success of the two growing mediums. Not a very precise experiment, I know! But that's my 2 cents FWIW. Happy New Year to all Phil ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 10:36:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: sphagnum, sphagnum, alive, alive-O! > Dear CPers: > I know this is slightly tangential, but what are people's > experience growing/keeping live sphagnum moss? My readings and intuition > indicate that wetter is better, but mine has always died under such > conditions (the S. purpurea and S. leukophyllia are fine, thank you). > Does anyone have any thoughts or experiences to share? > Thanks, > John E. Cavanaugh, MD, Fellow John: I have always used live sphagnum for just about all my plants when I could get it, and most have been in it for the past five years or so. I use long fiber native stuff for the most part. I simply orient the moss with the growing points up (as it would be in the wild) and fill the whole pot with it. Almost all of my pots stand in shallow water, maybe up to 1 and 1/2 inches deep in rainy summers, and perhaps 1/4 inch during the winters. I see inevitable breakdown of the moss at the bottom of the pot within a year and a half or so, but the growing points remain healthy. In my experience RO water is a must, one day of tap water will kill it. I also sometimes have inexplicable dead spots pop up (mainly outside) where rain water or something else has bleached it. As far as being too wet, I haven't found this to be the case. Often, if I have a few loose strands or a handful seems to be drying out for no good reason, I just stuff it into the water in a corner of one of the watering trays and leave it until I need it. Best as I recall, this always perks it up. Hope this helps, Tom in Fl. ################### From: John Walker Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 07:58:45 -0800 Subject: Re: Help for N. Madagascariensis At 05:07 PM 12/28/96 -0800, Alan wrote: >I have a N. Madagascariensis that is about 2" tall. It was growing well >until recently. It has three leaves including the one not quite open at >the top. The lower (4th) leaf shriveled up and fell off and the lowest >one now (3rd) is getting brown on the tip. I have it in a 4" pot with a >wick and peat moss. It is in a window sill that gets a little direct >sunlight. Can anyone help? ************************************************************** Hi Alan, I grow a small N. madagascariensis in a terrarium under lights. As it seems to be a slow growing plant I don't know if I have all the growing requirements just right, but it colors up and pitchures very well. I do the following: 5" pot, soil consisting of bark, sand, peat, charcole, and long fibered sphagnum, 2:1:1:1:1 Pot is kept out of the water, with no wick, and is watered once a week or so. Light is provided by four 40 watt flourescent bulbs Humidity is kept at about 70% Temps are 70F-90F Some possible things to try: You might want to check your roots to make sure they are not rotting. I don't know how wet your wick is keeping the soil. Don't let the direct sunlight burn the plant (I don't know that this is occuring, just be carefull) Increase the humidity (this helped my plant to pitchuring) Hope this helps, John in Phoenix ################### From: BREWER__CHARLES@ecomail.damneck.navy.mil Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 11:07:15 -0500 Subject: re: growing vfts Jack, Growing vfts in Virginia is fairly easy. They can stay out side most of the year except during January and February. A little freezing weather has never hurt mine at all. I grow about 300 or so vfts from seedlings to 15 year old plants. Some are growing along side my Sarr's while others are growing in 5 inch pots. I use a combination of 60 percent sand to 40 percent peat. I also grow them in all peat and in live sphagnum moss. I have received excellent results no matter which method I use. In other words, vfts are not real picky when it comes to peat/sand, sphagnum mix. As a rule of thumb, the bigger the pot, the better. I like to use 5 inch pot if all possible. These pots hold more moisture in the soil which requires less maintenance on my part. In regards to setting the pots in water, I usually don't and don't recommend it. I find putting them in a container of water increases there chance for rot, sour soil and fungus attacks. Where I live at in Va. Beach, we have very high humidity and lots of rain. If anything, I will only mist my plants between rain falls using a garden hose. Moist, but well drained soil usually has less problems to. During the colder part of winter, I bring my plants inside the greenhouse and set them on the floor (a cold garage works just as well), then I let Mother Nature does the rest. If I see that the sphagnum moss starts looking a little dry, I will mist the plants down just a little. Vfts grow well in strong light to full sun light. More sun, more color. I feed my plants crickets and any other Fat belly bugs I can find. Small plants, will they are on there own. I do not fertilize them at all, but they have been known to respond to a weak solution of fertilizer sprayed on them once a month during the growing season, but you better know what you are doing before you attempt this. I will also change the soil yearly during dormancy. I hope this will help some what and get you off to good growing habit. Any questions can be sent to me directly. Charles Brewer Va. Beach, Va ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 97 11:52 EST Subject: Re: Invading exotics > From: "Demetrio Lamzaki" > > >You are _so_ right! > >Rice eels to zebra mussels, etc. One just has to sit down and > >think and one can come up with invader species. > > So true! It's such an easy thing to do that the numbers soon > overwhelm you. Philip's post was a real eye-opener. It's > incredible what just a few individual members of a species > can do when given the opportunity, maybe if we told them > their parent stock was not genetically diverse enough when > it was released into the wild we can convince them to stop > dominating the landscape! :-) Again, I believe it is erroneous to suggest that the reintroduction of plants to wild habitat will proceed with the "ease" of introduction of certain invading exotics. If it were so easy, why have not the endangered Hawaiian plants been easily "reintroduced" to again "dominate the landscape"? I think the exotic species problem shows that ecosystems are indeed difficult to manage, and we cannot expect introductions to proceed so simply when they are by are by our design. I also think it is not productive to argue in this way about the minimum level of genetic diversity needed for successful reintroduction. A conservation program is designed to MAXIMIZE the available genetic diversity for reintroduction. Michael Chamberland ################### From: L235@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 12:36:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Sphagnum cultivation In a message dated 1/1/97 11:41:06 PM, you wrote: >Dear CPers: > I know this is slightly tangential, but what are people's >experience growing/keeping live sphagnum moss? My readings and intuition >indicate that wetter is better, but mine has always died under such >conditions (the S. purpurea and S. leukophyllia are fine, thank you). I >have gotten a new batch and instead of drowning it, I have put it in pots, >on top of saturated milled peat, then placed the pots in an aquarium with 2 >inches of reverse-osmosed H2O. Half the pots have been placed directly on >the bottom, in the water, while half have been placed on top of inverted >pots similar to the way orchids are grown. I placed 2-inches of live moss >in a pot without the milled peat and placed it directly in the water at the >bottom of the tank so that it is "swimming". >Noticable differences were seen in health and green-ness after only one day! >It remains to be seen if the "humidity-only" moss actually grows better and >healthier in the long run, but it's sure prettier. > Does anyone have any thoughts or experiences to share? >Thanks, > John E. Cavanaugh, MD, Fellow > Division of Forensic Pathology > Indiana University School of Medicine Dear John, Not tangential at all! My collection of different moss forms is becoming (almost) as large as my CP collection. I have the greatest success when I culture the moss as I would most of my CP, to wit: mix of sphagnum peat moss and sand/perlite/whatever (vermiculite, etc.) about 50/50. Tray watering (one inch or less) and bright light. Many of my plants grow a nice carpet of moss during their spring/summer outdoors in the Southeast US, and I"m cultivating some newly-acquired moss (very nice, low grower, non invasive .. THANK YOU, DAVID) in a three-inch pot underlights in my closet greenhouse-of-sorts. One thing I have just noticed, after returning from two weeks out of state .. living moss seems to be a good home (unfortunately) for Botrytis! (yech). In several pots, it seems to have spread quickly through green moss. I've since removed most, if not all moss from my plants, except for small patches far away from rhizomes ... mold seems to be less of a problem on bare soil. Anyone else find this? Ironically, mold doesn't seem to be a problem in all-moss pots. (i.e. U. cornuta, U. juncea,) Jay Lechtman (L235@aol.com) ################### From: L235@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 12:42:27 -0500 Subject: Welcome back, Demetrio! Welcome back, Demetrio! (somewhat belatedly) I just visited the San Diego zoo as well, and wondered, if they can house a bromeliad garden courtesy of the San Diego bromeliad study group, why not CP? (They also have a nice collection of confiscated orchids put into their care by the border patrol, I believe). I heard Dr. Lau present the same talk to the Southern California CP society at their December meeting. Fascinating, and the pictures were incredible! I heard that he's touring the country trying to raise money for his education program (we each donated a small amount to hear him by way of honarium), so perhaps he might be available to other clubs/groups? Tom Johnson seemed to have made the arrangements (I was just visiting from the east). Jay Lechtman (L235@aol.com) ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Thu, 02 Jan 97 13:18 EST Subject: RE: Is Extinction better than Captive Cultivation? > From: Nigel Hurneyman > > > 'It is important for hobby growers to understand that commercially propagate > plants and hobby collections do not represent conservation material'. > > Sorry Michael, but there are precedents that suggest hobbyists can be an > important conservation resource. Ah, but I have not been saying that hobbyists are not an important conservation resource! I've been saying that hobby COLLECTIONS are not an important conservation resource. I think the greatest contribution that hobby collection makes to conservation is through interesting and educating people about plants. A person interested in plants can then easily make the jump to being interested in conservation. But I believe it is important to understand that hobby collections do not conserve wild biodiversity. That is part of the education about conservation. > 1) A peat bog in Northern England restored by volunteers and repopulated > with native CPs from hobbyists collections. It wasn't a stunning success > AFAIK because hobbyists can't suddenly come up with thousands of D. > rotundifolia with a couple of months notice, but the plants provided were a > start. Successful reintroduction will depend on the long-term success (over several years). I do not know which plants were reintroduced. But since you mention D. rotundifolia, I must wonder why D. rotundifolia from hobby collections was used? This species is fairly common and widespread in the northern latitudes. Why were not plants transferred from another wild source, ie. salvaged from a wild spot about to be destroyed? Why not grow up plants from wild-collected seed? Perhaps these were done? This needs clarification. > 2) A leading UK botanic garden had a scheme whereby succulents that were > too boring to display in its show houses were given to enthusiasts to preser > in their collections, on the understanding that the garden could reclaim > material > as and when necessary for conservation and analysis purposes. I haven't > heard anything of this scheme for a long time so it may have ceased. This is very reasonable for keeping plants in cultivation. I don't know if the enthusiasts could really preserve the plants better than the garden over the long term. But since this is material propagated from cultivation, there's no reason not to give it a try. I have serious doubts that this material would be suitable for conservation of plants in the wild... but there's no reason not to keep the plants in cultivation for aesthetic purposes. > 3) A species long considered extinct from Central America due to > loss of habitat was found many years later in a private collection > in the UK. It is > being bulked up by a US Botanic Garden to ensure it never comes so > close to lights out again, both by distribution to other botanic > gardens and by populating a new protected location close to where > it was originally wiped o > I'm kicking myself because the name of the plant is on the tip of > my tongue, > but I think it is a Fuchsia. I think there are better chances this species will be rediscovered in the wild than this plant has of being successfully reintroduced, for all the reasons I've given before: lack of genetic diversity, unknown fate of pollinators, seed distributors, and mycorrhizae, not to mention lack of natural habitat to reintroduce to! If this plant COULD be successfully reintroduced, success would be out of sheer luck! Perhaps a rare plant could be re-grown from a necklace made out of nuts? This does not mean that nut-necklaces are a form of conservation. The necklace, like the hobby collection, is a leisure commodity. Both have their own important aesthetic value. But neither are designed for conservation. > I believe that some of the pygmy Drosera in my collection are now extinct in > the wild, and more are likely to follow through loss of habitat. I certainl I have heard this before on the list (perhaps from you?) and I'd be interested in more information. Which species are involved? Michael Chamberland ################### From: Johannes.Marabini@t-online.de (Johannes Marabini) Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 15:12:19 +0100 Subject: Drosera regia Hallo all, I have a few plants of Drosera regia to swap in spring. I am looking for Genlisa. bye Johannes -- Johannes Marabini Sperlingstrasse 10 91315 Hoechstadt/Aisch Germany Tel./Fax 49 9193 4866 @e-mail: mailto:Johannes.Marabini@t-online.de Homepage: ">johannes.marabini@t-online.de/index.htm">http://home.t-online.de/home/[51 ]johannes.marabini@t-online.de/index.htm ------------New Nepenthesphotos!!---------------------------------------------- ------------Updated 21.12.1996------------------------------------------------- ################### From: BREWER__CHARLES@ecomail.damneck.navy.mil Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 15:53:26 -0500 Subject: re: sphagnum moss John, In regards to sphagnum moss. It sounds as though you are trying to hard to keep it alive. All the sphagnum moss I have seen growing outside usually grows on pond banks or in water that is constantly moving. Like vfts, I grow my moss on peat/sand mix or just plain dead moss, that is well drained and very moist. I also grow the moss out side all year long. During the colder part of the winter, the moss will freeze hard as a rock. In some cases, it will stay this way for several days even a week or two, without and harm. I find that cold weather does not impacted it at all. If anything it's necessary. During the growing season (spring/summer/fall) I grow my moss in large container with high sides. These containers are located in a semi-sunny location, meaning that the moss gets morning and afternoon sun only. The growing container had sides which are approx 1 foot high. This helps keeps the wind from drying out the moss as well as holding in the required humidity. I also have drain holes located in the bottom of the container. This allows the rain water to slowly drain out leaving the moss plenty moist, but not swimming in the same water day after day. It takes about a full day or two for the water to drain out after a good size rain. The drain holes are important in allowing the moss to constantly have a continues supply of fresh rain water running through it. I process my moss by cutting off and using the growing points/heads only. This assures me of always having plenty of moss. I hope this info helps you out. Charles Brewer Va. Beach, Va. ################### From: dave evans Date: Thu, 02 Jan 97 17:45 EST Subject: Re: genetic diversity > From: James Tovee <106361.2125@COMPUSERVE.COM> > > Surely the plants that propagated vegatively should have very > little or no genetic diversity. It is only the plants grown from seed that > will diversify. I am mainly interested in Saracenia. Many of these are have > the area where they originated from appended to there name. These can only > be propagated vegatively to truly retain their name. Hi James, If you self-pollinate the flowers, you can still use the orginal location data. The only genes in that seed will be from the original site. You can also collect seed from a site and name it as such... Sarracenia are not self-pollinating but they are self-fertile so you can produce seed with good location data by helping out with the pollination. Dave Evans ################### From: "Sarver.Cindy V3I" Date: 2 Jan 1997 14:38:52 U Subject: Madagascar Greetings all, I am planning a trip to Madagascar in August of this year and am trying to decide where I should go. Any suggestions? I understand that the reserves at Berenty and Perinet have nice Nepenthes. Private email is fine. Thanks in advance, -cindy ################### From: dave evans Date: Thu, 02 Jan 97 17:59 EST Subject: Re: Re: Non-Native Species > From: Rand Nicholson > > Don't forget the ubiquitous _Dandylion_. Ahh, I've been meaning to ask but since this not the Dandylion list server... Anyway, I heard it mention once or twice that this plant doesn't reproduce sexually, but in some odd quirk, produces gamates capable of growing in new plants on their own. True? Yes, I know they attract plenty of bees and produce lots of pollen... Dave Evans ################### From: dave evans Date: Thu, 02 Jan 97 18:42 EST Subject: Re: Re: Tissue Culture versus Seedlings > From: Perry Malouf > > > I was wondering if... you compare a Nepenthes species grown > > from seed> (non-sterile conditions, seed is just sown on compost) > > to a plant of the same species planted out of T.C., both > > with the exact same dimensions, say a 3cm diameter and > > 2cm tall, generally will the growth rates be similar or will > > there be a marked contrast? > > I've noticed that small Nepenthes plants from tissue culture > tend to grow quite a bit faster and more vigorously than > plants from seed (non-sterile conditions). Plants from out of tissue culture are basically on plant steroids. :) I think there ought to be a way of producing this effect without doing it TC. We already use giberrillins (sp?) to get seeds and dormant buds to grow. Of course, this type of chemical will not give the desired result. What will? Superthrive? Maybee, Super- thrive + something? Dave Evans ################### From: dave evans Date: Thu, 02 Jan 97 18:49 EST Subject: Re: Re: Non-Native Species > From: Rand Nicholson > > >California resembles Australia when it comes to having forests > >of Eucalyptus, But no kuwalas (sp?) though, eh? > Rice eels to zebra mussels, etc. One just has to sit down and think and one > can come up with invader species. A lot of them seem to be "natural" > because they have been in our (North American) ecosystems for decades. How about that crap: poison-ivy! That's not a native either. It now cover's roads sides all over N. America! I've seen it everywhere I've been (quite a number of places). It's even in Canada, right? Dave E ################### From: Alastair Robinson <">100611.1627@CompuServe.COM> Date: 02 Jan 97 19:19:40 EST Subject: Re:N."sp.Tudjuh" Although I have written to Meryl privately, I'd just like to point out, as it has come up a few times, that N.aristolochioides and N.sp.Tudjuh are the same thing - the former is its name as the latter was only a reference to where it was found - Gunung/Mt. Tudjuh in Sumatra. Best wishes, Alastair. ################### From: "Sarver.Cindy V3I" Date: 2 Jan 1997 16:21:09 U Subject: San Diego Zoo All, Actually, the Wild Animal Park near San Diego (and affiliated with the zoo) has a very small collection of cp in their butterfly exhibit. -cindy ################### From: dave evans Date: Thu, 02 Jan 97 19:22 EST Subject: Re: Is Extinction better than Captive Propagation? > From: "Demetrio Lamzaki" > > This fact doesn't conflict with my support of the preservation > of natural biodiversity. The two tactics complement each other, > they are not exclusive paths that one must decide between as > they've been depicted by some here. Hmm, While I don't see capitive populations loosing their wild abilities of survival, if the sites are destroyed, then there is no place to re-introduce them. Plants are generally more tied to a specific type of soil and lighting and water levels than animals but it still happens (carrier pigeon). Keeping plants as backups to wild populations doesn't mechanically conflict with preservation, but it does when you have money to spend on one or the other. I'd always pick the land and the environment on it over building lots of greenhouses (where should we put the greenhouses?). If I had plants from a site that was later picked clean, I could re-plant (or send seed and plants to whoever is re-planting the site) some and there still may be seed present. Such opertunity is a rather rare occurance. Most of the time, the land is it's self is damaged in some way, so it is no longer able to support the life it once held. > My guess is the overwhelming majority of readers of this list, > who have not yet written on this topic, favor both strategies > for preservation as I do. It can work, it's just better to preserve the environment it self. Also, what greedy person is not going to use the captive plants in an attempt to sway the public to their view? "We can give you jobs clearing land and besides those Greenies already have tons of captive plants from here." > >and some from that side use this attitude to rationalize > >or justify illegal activity. See above paragraph for another rationalization. > Yes I know, the sky would darken for hours as a flock went > overhead and with a single rifle shot you could down 20 birds. > Accurate, exaggerated? Who knows. I actually wasn't > referring to them at the height of their numbers, more towards > the last few decades of existence when their decline was > evident. They realized the American bison was in trouble > before it was too late (barely), it's sad the same can't be > said for the Passenger pigeon. Yes, but there is still room for that species. Not for the pigeon though. Dave E ################### From: dave evans Date: Thu, 02 Jan 97 19:39 EST Subject: Re: Re:Mycorhhizal assc. in Neps. > From: Alastair Robinson <100611.1627@COMPUSERVE.COM> > > Diversity thread... On uprooting a young wild N.mirabilis > and inspecting its roots, I was surprised to find them encased in 'tubes' of a > fine intermeshed fibre which I have seen on the roots of some orchids > If Nepenthes can co-exist with a symbiotic fungi, then it is most probably > beneficial, as it is for orchids. Hi Alastair, Have you manage to cultivate this maybe fungus? Only seen it in the wild? Dave Evans ################### From: "Demetrio Lamzaki" Date: Fri, 3 Jan 97 02:49:05 UT Subject: Re: Non-Native Species >>So true! It's such an easy thing to do that the numbers soon >>overwhelm you. Philip's post was a real eye-opener. It's >>incredible what just a few individual members of a species >>can do when given the opportunity, maybe if we told them >>their parent stock was not genetically diverse enough when >>it was released into the wild we can convince them to stop >>dominating the landscape! :-) >Again, I believe it is erroneous to suggest that the reintroduction >of plants to wild habitat will proceed with the "ease" of introduction >of certain invading exotics. (snip) I also think it is not productive >to argue in this way about the minimum level of genetic diversity >needed for successful reintroduction. Huh? The comment you're quoting is not an argument, but a humorous statement as designated by the ":-)" at the end. It was so illogical (negotiating with a plant species) I thought it would easily be seen as such and there was no danger of someone considering it a serious point to debate but you did! (Now that turn of events is truly hilarious! :-) I guess next you'll send me a long serious answer to the other smiley question I raised regarding putting the Bay Area on the CP location map for Sarracenia oreophila, I'm assuming your position is yes, but keep the detail blurry to confuse the poachers...:-) I know you must be a little sore Michael because your original comment "Fortunately, exotic introduction "successes" like the starlings, cheat grass, purple loostrife, salt cedar, and water hyacinth in the US. are rare." is what started this whole thread to begin with, but don't lose your sense of humor. Regards, Demetrios ################### From: "Demetrio Lamzaki" Date: Fri, 3 Jan 97 02:51:19 UT Subject: Re: Welcome back, Demetrio! >Welcome back, Demetrio! (somewhat belatedly) Thanks Jay, it's great to be back. >I just visited the San Diego zoo as well, and wondered, if they >can house a bromeliad garden courtesy of the San Diego bromeliad >study group, why not CP? I thought the same thing too. The Tiger River section would look great with a couple of plants, A full CP display somewhere in the zoo would be fantastic. Is there a San Diego CP club or does the L.A. one have enough members from down there that they could look into this? >(They also have a nice collection of confiscated orchids put into their >care by the border patrol, I believe). Yes, in a secluded section of the zoo at the top of a steep climb hidden behind some trees in a locked case, you knew I'd find them didn't you? :-) Beautiful plants, they take good care of them. There are many other hidden treasures in the park for the fern, cycad, and palm lover, it was worth the visit for the plant life alone, if you are also fascinated by animals like I am you can imagine what a joy it was. It's great to hear from you Jay, I hope you enjoyed your trip out West. Take care, Demetrios ################### From: steiger@iae.unibe.ch (Juerg Steiger) Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 08:32:23 +0100 Subject: Re: Can anyone translate the BIBLIOPHILE KOSTBARKEITEN mail? Paul >OK I admit it. Despite German heritage I don't speak and can't read the >language. So would someone mind translating the German email "BIBLIOPHILE >KOSTBARKEITEN" sent on Wed 1 Jan 1997? Thanks if someone does! KOSTBARKEIT (singular) means a precious object, a treasure, something of great value. The suffix -EN is the ending for the plural. The adjective BIBLIOPHIL means 'attracted by good literature' , 'loving beautiful books' etc. 'BIBLIOPHILE KOSTBARKEITEN' means something like 'precious literature for connaisseurs'. Happy New Year! Juerg ___________________________________________________ Juerg Steiger, Institut fuer Aus-, Weiter- und Fortbildung IAWF University of Bern, Inselspital 37a, CH-3010 Bern, Switzerland Office: +41 31 632 9887 Fax: +41 31 632 9871 ################### From: Laurent Ide Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 08:39:32 GMT Subject: Nepenthes and Drosera Magaliesberg Perry Malouf told me recently that Nepenthes pitchers live maybe three or four months, then die. I'm now sure that I got some pitchers for more than five months that are really in good state. Well, only one day in bad humidity conditions (less than 40 percent humidity) produces this effect: pitcher's top are distorted. If you see that, quickly spray your plant with water. Be sure that ground is wet enough. I personally give water each evening until it drops from the basket bottom. The pitchers tops should be ok in a few hours, if not you'll see they'll turn to black, and a part of the pitcher too maybe ! Especially the biggest ones, and these that are far from the center of the plant in first. So, I've placed a lot of Drosera's in the same pot, they're all South-African except D. capillaris, but this one has the same growing conditions. Now they're all in dormancy in here, and most of them, like D. regia or aliciae, simply grow slower. But D. Magaliesberg, identified as a kind of D. collinsiae by myself (hey scientists, don't lynch me for that personal intuition) has completely turned to black, until the hart of the plant. I suppose it's completely rot (sorb!), but knowing some surprising reincarnations by these plants I'll wait until spring to be sure. Can anyone tell me if this Drosera completely disappears in winter ? Thanks. Laurent Here a personal observation: don't use peat:sand mixes to grow some seeds, because the roots of the little plants have problems to penetrate the sand. I obtain really better results on pure peat. ################### From: Rand Nicholson Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 07:04:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Re: Non-Native Species >> Rice eels to zebra mussels, etc. One just has to sit down and think and one >> can come up with invader species. A lot of them seem to be "natural" >> because they have been in our (North American) ecosystems for decades. > >How about that crap: poison-ivy! That's not a native either. It >now cover's roads sides all over N. America! I've seen it everywhere >I've been (quite a number of places). It's even in Canada, right? > >Dave E It sure is. Where did it come from, originally? Rand ################### From: Perry Malouf Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 07:42:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Can anyone translate the BIBLIOPHILE KOSTBARKEITEN mail? Juerg Steiger was kind enough to translate: > 'BIBLIOPHILE KOSTBARKEITEN' means something like 'precious literature > for connaisseurs'. Thanks for that. I wonder if someone could summarize what the entire message was about? Regards, Perry Malouf ################### From: tjw@chos001.cho.ge.com (Tim Williams Ext. 5529) Date: Fri, 3 Jan 97 09:31:47 EST Subject: Re: Re: Non-Native Species Dave Evans asks about dandylions: Dandylions reproduce by apomixis, a process where the embryo arises from an adjacent vegetative cell and not from the egg cell. Therefore the seed is genetically identical to the mother plant. Recent genetic evidence shows that the North American dandylions are genetically distinct from those in Europe. This suggests that dandylions are probably native to NA (and the rest of the Northern Hemisphere) and not European imports. This also holds for other common weeds originally thought to be European imports. Prunella vulgaris comes to mind as another example. Tim Williams tim.williams@cho.ge.com ################### From: Laurent Ide Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 16:16:08 GMT Subject: Pronounce Latin As a french speaking boy and european people, I would say that the best way to pronounce latin names is to read them like Italian. (or Spanish for US people who never heard italian, if they exist). Referring to the long and really good message from Jan Schlauer at 12-12-96, I must say that the 'SC' in Latin, like in Italian, should be pronounced like a 'sh', as in 'shock', and the italian 'ch' is pronounced 'k', because 'h' in italian is 'k' too. Think to the wine 'Chianti' pronounced 'key-an-tee', and they pronounce 'IAMAKA' for 'YAMAHA' . The latin 'C' is pronounced 'k', the italian 'c' is 'tsh' like in 'CIAO AMICI', 'tsha-o ameetshee' ! The 'A' in all these examples is the european 'a' like in...'America'. To justify this, you should know that my mother is italian and that I followed Latin curses at school (but not enough English !) ################### From: Carl Gustafson Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 12:28:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Non-Native Species Philip Thomas wrote: >BTW, Hawaii's only NATIVE CP is Drosera anglica (on the island of Kauai, >probably brought in as a seed on the foot of a migrating golden plover). I think I understand the point, but to pick a nit, it seems that Hawaii's only NATIVE CP was introduced by a bird. So, in a situation like this (land formed by volcanic action), are native species those introduced by non-humans, and invaders introduced by humans? Obviously, for an island like Kauai to have any plants (or animals) they would have to have been introduced at some time or other. You could make the point (call it sophistry if you want, I don't mind) that since humans also arose through evolution, (or creation, which would lead to a different line of argument) they are part of nature and so their actions should be considered different from other creatures only to the extent that they are so capable of changing things. carl ################### From: robert.pogson@mwcs.mb.ca (ROBERT POGSON) Date: Fri, 03 Jan 97 11:01:00 -0600 Subject: Re: Recent miracle! Last summer I received some seed of D. capensis from Dean Cook through this list. I planted in July but saw nothing for months. I had put the terrarium aside in a window of my bath. I had even quit misting it as I had given up but it was covered and somewhat moist. Lo! two days ago I was bathing and happened to turn my head close to it. There were a couple of specks of green! Joy! They've grown enough I can see the tentacles now. I feel like a new daddy again. Thanks, Dean. I'm going to start a batch of fruit flies... ... nfx v2.8 [C0000] Of course I'm energetic; don't you know e=mc^2 ? ################### From: Mark van Kleunen Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 21:56:51 +0100 Subject: nepenthes propagation?/ books? Hello all, I have some questions about the asexual propagation of Nepenthes. The book by Adrian Slack states that January-February is the most apropriate period for reproduction of Nepenthes by cuttings. Is this also your experience? The book by Pietropaolo describes several methods for the asexual reproduction of Nepenthes: stem cuttings, air layering, and ground layering. Which of these is the most succesful method for the propagation of N. alata? I also have another question. Does anyone know a store in the Netherlands or otherwise a mail-order company selling books (especially the books of Adrian Slack) about cps? Mark van Kleunen ################### From: dave evans Date: Fri, 03 Jan 97 16:42 EST Subject: ??D.diels. * sp. Trans.?? Hi List, I received some seed of the ICPS Seed Bank labled D.dielsiana * D. sp. Transval. What has come up though *appears* to be a mixed batch of D.capensis and D.spathulata. Considering the D.dielsiana is the mother plant, I was expecting to see some of them as this species is self-pollinating. Could it be that the cross is really D.capensis or D.ramentacia (sp?) * D.dielsiana, which gave rise to a cross which looks like D.spathulata, at least in it's juvenille stage? Dave Evans ################### From: dave evans Date: Fri, 03 Jan 97 18:08 EST Subject: D.peltata? Hi List, I'm just full Drosera related questions, it seems. I received a couple bulbs of D.peltata which had just started their second year's growth this last summer. When it got cold, I moved them inside along with a lot of other plants. After a couple months, one of the bulbs started to grow upright at quite an amazing speed to reach the height of eight inches in about five weeks time. The other plant has been doing some weird thing, making lots of secondary rosettes. Anyway, the first one flowered today and I tried out Jan's new Drosera key. This is when my HEADACHE started. (it's still going strong, BTW.) I was able to count six green yet hairy sepals and six petals but in the time from moving the plant out from under the light and counting the petals, the flower closed. I put it back under the lights, it re-openned. I took it back out and it closed up again, just after I got a glimpse inside! Anyway, there are only two flowers and Jan's key calls for around ten. What I did come up with is D.salina... The petals are white, and I've been told that D.peltata is always pink. Any idea what I have? And why isn't the Tylenol working? ;) Dave Evans ################### From: dave evans Date: Fri, 03 Jan 97 19:07 EST Subject: Re: Re:N.macfarlanei > From: Alastair Robinson <100611.1627@COMPUSERVE.COM> > > Of course, this mightn't apply at all and maybe the D.melanogaster will > work a treat! - I have an 'unsolvable' problem with N.khasiana - it won't grow > at any temperature or moisture levels, and I've tried orchid and peaty composts. > It has had three and a half leaves for two years, but it isn't showing any signs > of leaving and I have given up on trying to coax it into growth - everyone is > always going on about how vigorous it is..! Hi Alastair, You might want to try 1:1 peat:sand and then add about a third of whatever volume you have as fine pine bark chips. I was suprised at how some highlanders have responded to this mix =-> Growing much faster than in a "normal" Nepenthes mix. You can mix in a little long fiber Sphagnum too. I haven't tried this on N.khasiana since mine died in a regular Nep mix. If I ever get another, you can bet it's going in this newer mix. Dave Evans ################### From: Al Bickell Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 19:17:37 -0500 Subject: Nepenthes propagation Markvan Kleunan wrote: methods for the asexual reproduction of Nepenthes: stem cuttings, air layering, and ground layering. Which of these is the most succesful method for the propagation of N. alata? Mark, I have placed a few new illustrations of propogation techniques for Nepenthes at our web site. The site is still just new but expanding fairly rapidly. . Al Bickell ################### From: Rabbi Ishmael Habbakuk <100611.1627@CompuServe.COM> Date: 03 Jan 97 19:44:18 EST Subject: Re:Nepenthes propagation I haven't ever had success with a layering, but cuttings don't pose a problem, although it is generally accepted that highland species are harder to root than are lowlanders - a trick that I find actually helps with these is to split the base of the cutting up its middle about 1cm and wedge this open with a bit of non-biodegradable/decomposable material, such as plastic - then treat as normal. Slack's books are becoming harder to find - his "Insect eating Plants and how to Grow them" certainly the finer of his two books, is almost impossible to get - frustratingly, your last bet may be, if nowhere else, the amazingly well stocked plethora of old book stores along Charing Cross Rd, London, where I found mine and two other copies which I have since passed on to other growers here - it took three years too!. Best of luck anyhow... Regards, Alastair. ################### From: "Demetrio Lamzaki" Date: Sat, 4 Jan 97 00:51:18 UT Subject: Re: San Diego Zoo >Actually, the Wild Animal Park near San Diego (and affiliated with >the zoo) has a very small collection of cp in their butterfly exhibit. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of having a butterfly exhibit? :-) (At least the plants are well fed...sorry, I couldn't resist!) Regards, Demetrios ################### From: Russell Elliott Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 12:12:15 -0800 Subject: Re: D.peltata? dave evans wrote: > > Postage paid by: [Image] > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Hi List, > > I'm just full Drosera related questions, it seems. I > received a couple bulbs of D.peltata which had just started > their second year's growth this last summer. When it got cold, > I moved them inside along with a lot of other plants. After > a couple months, one of the bulbs started to grow upright > at quite an amazing speed to reach the height of eight inches > in about five weeks time. The other plant has been doing > some weird thing, making lots of secondary rosettes. > Anyway, the first one flowered today and I tried out Jan's > new Drosera key. This is when my HEADACHE started. (it's still > going strong, BTW.) I was able to count six green yet hairy > sepals and six petals but in the time from moving the plant out > from under the light and counting the petals, the flower closed. > I put it back under the lights, it re-openned. I took it back > out and it closed up again, just after I got a glimpse inside! > Anyway, there are only two flowers and Jan's key calls for > around ten. What I did come up with is D.salina... The petals > are white, and I've been told that D.peltata is always pink. > > Any idea what I have? > > And why isn't the Tylenol working? ;) > > Dave Evans Dave, Im sure there are two forms of D.peltata, and both can be quote variable. Some clones produce basal rosettes while others lack them, and they often have differing numbers of flowers on them. Sometimes the number of flowers produced can be because of environmental influences. Some of mine only produced a couple of flowers this year, but I think it was because they "left it to the last minute" so to speak, and it would have been too late to produce any more. Anyway, I was wondering if you had received those D.peltata seeds that I promised you a *longggggggg* time ago. I sent them in the post about two weeks ago. Bye for now, Russell Elliott -- *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ! Russell Elliott ! ! Seed Bank Director, ! ! Australian Carnivorous Plant Society ! ! mailto:relliott@geocities.com ! ! mailto:elliott@nexus.edu.au ! *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ################### From: dave evans Date: Fri, 03 Jan 97 21:40 EST Subject: Re: Re: D.peltata? Hi Russel, > Im sure there are two forms of D.peltata, and both can be > quote variable. Some clones produce basal rosettes while > others lack them, and they often have differing numbers of > flowers on them. Subsp. peltata and subsp. auriculata (sp?)? I wonder if that's what you mean, since some people say the latter is a seperate species... > Sometimes the number of flowers produced can > be because of environmental influences. Some of mine only > produced a couple of flowers this year, but I think it was > because they "left it to the last minute" so to speak, and > it would have been too late to produce any more. Yeah, I was thinking this could be the reason for the low count also, but then how can you tell between D.pel. and D.salina? Is that second one even in cultivation, to your knowledge? > Anyway, I was wondering if you had received those D.peltata > seeds that I promised you a *longggggggg* time ago. I sent > them in the post about two weeks ago. Yeah, I received them right before I left to spend a week w/ Tom Hayes. Infact, we both somehow, very recently received lots of seed and other propagative bulbs and spend about half a day splitting the packets and potting them up. It was great timing! Thanks for sending it when you did, since if I manage to kill my pot of them, at least Tom will still have some. (I hope!) I still have to send the D.brevifolia seed to you right? Everything has been so hectic I'm not sure who still needs what... Any clues as how to grow out D.glandugera (sp?) to get seed from them? I tried a little in a pot set up for Drosophyllum which likes very dry conditions compared to every other CP I've grown... The Droso's are happy but I have a feeling it's much too dry for any Drosera. I still have some seed left and I'm hoping to get them in the right set up. Thanks, Dave E ################### From: "Demetrio Lamzaki" Date: Sat, 4 Jan 97 02:49:24 UT Subject: Re: Non-Native Species >>California resembles Australia when it comes to having forests >>of Eucalyptus, >But no kuwalas (sp?) though, eh? We have them too Dave, only they haven't gone wild yet! :-) This brings up a cute anecdote though, we have a colony of koalas at the San Francisco Zoo. Koalas only feed on Eucalyptus, and only certain species of it at that. Well, the zoo discovered that there were stands of the finest koala favorites growing throughout San Francisco. Along with their normal fare, usually growth from zoo-raised saplings, the koalas are treated to mature growth from these trees growing in Golden Gate Park and in various citizen's backyards (people who donate the branches promise never to spray their trees). It might be too cold for them up here, they'd probably do better down south, but in theory if they escaped they wouldn't go hungry. Now, would they multiply and spread? That's better left unanswered. Regards, Demetrios ################### From: "A. Griesser" Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 00:24:27 +0000 Subject: Re: Mycorhhizal assc. in Neps. Dave, I do not know if it is any good, but a mycorrhizae inoculant is available from A. M. Leonard (800 543-8955) under the name "MycorTree Tree Saver", which claims to contain "beneficial endo and ectomycorrhizal fungi, Terra-Sorb water absorbant gel and plant biostimulants". The smallest quantity (50 3 oz pakets) costs $97.50. Has anyone tried water absorbant gels in cp culture? It might give you a view of Utricularia and Genlisea traps. > From: Alastair Robinson <100611.1627@COMPUSERVE.COM> > > Diversity thread... On uprooting a young wild N.mirabilis > and inspecting its roots, I was surprised to find them encased in 'tubes' of a > fine intermeshed fibre which I have seen on the roots of some orchids > If Nepenthes can co-exist with a symbiotic fungi, then it is most probably > beneficial, as it is for orchids. Hi Alastair, Have you manage to cultivate this maybe fungus? Only seen it in the wild? ################### From: "Zachary Kaufman" Date: 4 Jan 1997 09:16:31 -0000 Subject: home cell stain Today I flattened a bladderwort bladder between a cover slip and a slide to view it under a microscope at home. Unfortunately, the cells were rather difficult to see. Does anyone know of something around the house or readily available that can be used as a stain for cells? Thanks, --Zachary-- --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- ################### From: isenberg@eva.cs.Uni-Magdeburg.DE (Tobias Isenberg) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 14:27:44 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: Can anyone translate the BIBLIOPHILE KOSTBARKEITEN mail? Perry Malouf wrote: > Juerg Steiger was kind enough to translate: > > > 'BIBLIOPHILE KOSTBARKEITEN' means something like 'precious literature > > for connaisseurs'. > > Thanks for that. I wonder if someone could summarize what the > entire message was about? It was just an advertisement for a new book about south east Asia with some features like limited to 1500 books; bound by hand with linnen (or linen ?) and leather by someone who also bound the Gutenberg Bible; with a preface by Mr. Somlabh Kitiyakara, descendent of king Chulalongkorn of Thailand; recommended by the literature council of the German minister of science, research and art; including 72 color pictures. Contents: * expedition to the sone age people of West Irian * report about the opium trade in Lao * insight into the asian life style: Thailand India Bali Himalaya Pakistan Nepal Ceylon Indonesia So it was competely off topic. But I hope that helps. Regards, Tobias from Germany -- Tobias Isenberg There are only two real truthes: isenberg@sunpool.cs.uni-magdeburg.de 1. Computer are useful for humans . http://www.cs.uni-magdeburg.de/~isenberg 2. Earth is a disk. ################### From: Burbidgea@aol.com Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 10:14:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Can anyone translate the BIBLIOPHILE KOSTBARKEITEN mail? In a message dated 97-01-03 07:49:48 EST, you write: > > Juerg Steiger was kind enough to translate: > > > 'BIBLIOPHILE KOSTBARKEITEN' means something like 'precious literature > > for connaisseurs'. > > Thanks for that. I wonder if someone could summarize what the > entire message was about? > Perry, if I remember correctl, it was one of those annoying pieces of junk email. The sort that will shortly force me to get a new email address... Christoph ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Sat, 04 Jan 97 13:13:00 EST Subject: Re: Sphagnum cultivation On Jan 4, Jay wrote: >My collection of different moss forms is becoming (almost) as large as my CP >collection and I'm cultivating some newly-acquired moss (very nice, low >grower, non invasive .. THANK YOU, DAVID) in a three-inch pot underlights in >my closet greenhouse-of-sorts. This is truly a neat little moss that looks like a low-pile, plush carpet. Any sphagnum moss experts out there that can shed more light on it. It might be a nice moss to use for Drosera's, which I plan to try once I grow enough of it. Like Jay, I have several kinds, one I call Jethro, big, lanky, and stupid and grows all over everything. I think you know the type. Another has a much smaller crown but still rather bushy. And then there's the dainty moss, no real head like the others, hence the plush pile comparison. I almost wonder if it's sphagnum. >One thing I have just noticed, after returning from two weeks out of state .. >living moss seems to be a good home (unfortunately) for Botrytis! >(yech). I had this problem, too, in pots on occassion but never in my outside bog. Of course, I've only had an outside bog for a year now, so there's not much history there. One of the cp books says not to use sphagnum moss because of the problem with critters. True? Personal experiences you can share? David ################### From: jaldr@onramp.net (James Aldridge) Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 19:20:26 GMT Subject: seeds / propagation pieces Hi. I am looking for seeds and/or vegetative parts to try some in vitro = cp propagation. Can anyone suggest some sources for this material? I am particularly interested in sundews, pitcher plants, and Venus flytraps. Thank you James Aldridge - Fort Worth, Texas, USA jaldr@onramp.net or aldrjame@tenet.edu http://rampages.onramp.net/~jaldr ################### From: Burbidgea@aol.com Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 14:45:33 -0500 Subject: Re: D.peltata? In a message dated 97-01-03 21:49:20 EST, you write: > Yeah, I was thinking this could be the reason for the low > count also, but then how can you tell between D.pel. and > D.salina? Is that second one even in cultivation, to your > knowledge? I grew D. salina about five years ago. But this plant is a lot smaller and mine NEVER grew to eight inches tall. Even Lowrie states that D. salina reaches about 5cm (Carnivorous Plants of Australia, vol.1, p.96). What colors were the tubers? This sometimes helps in determing the species. Christoph ################### From: Peter Cole Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 11:00:25 GMT Subject: Re: ??D.diels. * D. sp. Trans.?? dave evans writes: > I received some seed of the ICPS Seed Bank labled D.dielsiana > * D. sp. Transval. What has come up though *appears* to be a > mixed batch of D.capensis and D.spathulata. Considering the > D.dielsiana is the mother plant, I was expecting to see some > of them as this species is self-pollinating. Could it be > that the cross is really D.capensis or D.ramentacia (sp?) * > D.dielsiana, which gave rise to a cross which looks like D.spathulata, > at least in it's juvenille stage? I sowed some last year, and they certainly start out as little spathulate rosettes, but over time the petioles elongate considerably and the laminae a little, to resemble a flat affinis or short, flat intermedia. It looks like it ought to be a bit more erect, but still grows flat on the ground after nearly a year for me. My seeds also came from the ICPS (sowed 29/2/96 according to the label,) but might be a different batch from the time gap - I see no variation along the lines of spatulata/capensis - none of the laminae has an aspect longer than 3 or 4:1 length:width. I hear it's self-fertile? and that the sp. 'Transvaal' may be D.collinsiae? (I think that was it, or maybe affinis...) I can't remember who I heard this from - came up in Email a couple of months ago. Anyone out there who can refresh my memory/throw some new light on this? It goes to show these S.African Drosera are a complex group! Pretty little plant though, Peter snail:Peter Cole,17 Wimmerfield Cr. :: mailto:carnivor@flytrap.demon.co.uk Killay, SWANSEA SA27BU,WALES,UK :: http://www.flytrap.demon.co.uk/ vox:+44 1792 205214 :: Carnivorous plants & seeds for sale ################### From: Peter Cole Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 10:36:42 GMT Subject: Re: ?D.peltata? In message <199701032340.AA007704833@jr.hpl.hp.com> cp@hplb.hpl.hp.com writes: dave evans writes: ... > Anyway, the first one flowered today and I tried out Jan's > new Drosera key. This is when my HEADACHE started. (it's still > going strong, BTW.) I was able to count six green yet hairy > sepals and six petals but in the time from moving the plant out > from under the light and counting the petals, the flower closed. > I put it back under the lights, it re-openned. I took it back > out and it closed up again, just after I got a glimpse inside! > Anyway, there are only two flowers and Jan's key calls for > around ten. What I did come up with is D.salina... The petals > are white, and I've been told that D.peltata is always pink. I've heard of white-flowering D.peltata (though mine are all pink,) - these might be misidentified, but it's quite a variable species, I guess because it ranges so far. Perhaps you've got a Japanese or NZ plant, which I'd expect to show the most divergence from the norm. I doubt it's D.salina - this one's a flat rosette producing a much shorter climbing stem - no more than 3 or 4 inches compared to twice that or more for D.peltata (I've got one that's 13 inches tall ATM!, but that's unusual.) Lowrie also shows D.salina as being 5-petalled and 5-staminate, so it would be as abberant for this species as D.peltata. I've not kept this one long enough to flower, so I can't comment on variation in floral structures. I also find more variety in D.peltata flowering than the books or Jan's key indicates - anything from 0 to 10 or so flowers per plant, though the flowers may not all appear at once, and it doesn't appear to be consistent by original location or even individual tuber, but rather (probably,) a response to cultivation conditions. The sepals sound more like peltata too - D.salina has glabrous sepals according to Lowrie, while peltata's are dotted with terete-stalked glands. > Any idea what I have? I guess it's D.peltata ssp.maybe-not-peltata :-) Keep an eye out for more flowers and see if the 6-* is the regular pattern or just an abberation (not unknown in all many Drosera spp.) Happy growing, Peter snail:Peter Cole,17 Wimmerfield Cr. :: mailto:carnivor@flytrap.demon.co.uk Killay, SWANSEA SA27BU,WALES,UK :: http://www.flytrap.demon.co.uk/ vox:+44 1792 205214 :: Carnivorous plants & seeds for sale ################### From: Alastair Robinson <100611.1627@CompuServe.COM> Date: 04 Jan 97 20:18:45 EST Subject: ... Dear Dave - you're gonna enjoy this... the first N.khasiana I had was in my all-round semi-epiphytic, barky mix, which goes great for all my other Nepenthes whilst the second, peat, sand and bark in roughly equal proportions, it died too, so..! Out of interest, do you grow your plants under artificial or natural light? - I would very much like to know if anyone out there is cultivating N.khasiana under fuorescent light SUCCESSFULLY - I have a hunch, but am unsure, that like some Streptocarpus species, but not others, some species of plant won't succeed under fluorescent lights while others of the same genus do. That Fungal Innoculation formule' you mentioned, Mr A.Griesser (Hi!) sounds quite interesting - indeed I've never heard of anything like that here (Not that the British have never been a really enterprisingly inventive people..!) and am curious as to whether or not that could work. Surely for such a thing to be of practical use and saleable, the manufacturers would have selected hardy species of fungi which could tolerate extremely variable soil conditions to cope with the variety of soils to which the product, when used, would be added - and thus possibly some that would tolerate an Orchid/Nepenthes mix, but these tend to be so different that I wonder... Am I getting too hopeful in wondering whether anyone has tried and had any success with this?? I have grown Drosera on absorbant gel - D.capensis, and as it turns out, the plants are a little smaller than they might be tho' there is the added benefit that the gel retains relatively large amounts of water - and it even turns green in the sun as it is just perfect for algal growth throughout 8-) I also tried adding it to Nepenthes soil, as among its uses it was suggested as a water retainer suitable for mixing into soil - one cannot judge whether or not this has any affect as I haven't subjected my plants to drought, nor have I any recollection of which pots they are in as it was two/three years ago I'm afraid. With regards to the fungus seen on the roots of the N.mirabilis, much to my irritation, I did not think anything of it at the time and did not make an attempt to preserve it as I have told Dave. I hate it when I do things like this! - always an excuse to go home again though! Best wishes and Many Happy Returns for 1997 (Unless Nostradamus is correct), Alastair. ################### From: John Walker Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 18:58:31 -0800 Subject: Re: home cell stain At 01:23 AM 1/4/97 -0800, you wrote: >Today I flattened a bladderwort bladder between a cover slip and a slide >to view it under a microscope at home. Unfortunately, the cells >were rather difficult to see. Does anyone know of something >around the house or readily available that can be used as a stain for >cells? >Thanks, >--Zachary-- > >--------------------------------------------------------- >Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >--------------------------------------------------------- Hi Zachary, I seem to remember from high school biology that liquid iodine (used for cuts and scrapes) was a stain. Then again I could be mistaken :-) Hope this will help, John in Phoenix ################### From: Perry Malouf Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 05:38:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: N. Khasiana under lights Alastair Robinson wrote: > I would very much like to know if anyone out there is > cultivating N.khasiana under fuorescent light SUCCESSFULLY Yes, I am growing N. khasiana under fluorescent lights successfully. My potting mix is long fiber sphagnum with perlite mixed in; the ratio is roughly 1:1 by volume. The intention is to provide a light, airy mix that drains well but will keep the roots moist (not sopping wet). My N. khasiana is grown under fluorescent lights for about 5 months of the year, when outside conditions are too cold for the plant. The rest of the time I put the plant outdoors in partial shade, but I'm thinking about halting this. The reason is that many of my Nepenthes seem to do better when they're inside for the winter. This may be due to a couple of factors. First, although my area can have hot humid summers (good for Nepenthes), the humidity often varies quite a bit from day to day. The plants seem to prefer constant humidity, even if it's less than 70%, rather than have 90% one day and 60% the next. Second, the plants occasionally get exposed to certain insect pests when they're placed outside. The pests don't kill the plants, but they sometimes stress the plant to the point of setting them back a little. My N. khasiana puts on most of its growth when I put it under fluorescent lights for the winter. Note that I don't have a greenhouse, which would probably help the plant even more. Regards, Perry Malouf ################### From: "Demetrio Lamzaki" Date: Sat, 4 Jan 97 02:54:05 UT Subject: Re: Is Extinction better than Captive Propagation? >> This fact doesn't conflict with my support of the preservation >> of natural biodiversity. The two tactics complement each other, >> they are not exclusive paths that one must decide between as >> they've been depicted by some here. >Keeping plants as backups to wild populations doesn't >mechanically conflict with preservation, but it does when >you have money to spend on one or the other. I'd always >pick the land and the environment on it over building lots >of greenhouses (where should we put the greenhouses?). Dave, I've never known it to be the case where the choice was "either" "or", in other words EITHER you can have a preserved natural site OR have seed and plants in captivity BUT NOT BOTH, unless the site is already extinct. And I don't think it would be a matter of money either, all you need for a seedbank is some empty envelopes and I'm sure you could find a spare bench in an existing greenhouse somewhere without having to build a new one over the natural site. All I'm saying is it helps to have some seed and plants in captivity from that site as a living insurance policy that guarantees that particular gene pool never becomes extinct. Of course keeping the site in existence is the top priority. But, let's say for the sake of argument we must make the choice. I would choose keeping the natural site. But I hope you realize this is an artificial choice, land preservation societies are not lacking funds because all the money is going into collecting seeds! They lack funds because most people don't give a damn whether the plant species exists in captivity or the wild which is the sad truth. And all the preserved habitat in the world is worthless if there aren't enough officers patrolling it to prevent poaching and other destruction, and that also costs money which the natural parks don't have. The poachers probably have a better shot at being hit by lightning than they do being arrested in some areas. Hopefully someday this will change, but until it does it's up to us to do all we can to keep the species alive by preserving natural sites and maintaining living material in captivity. Regards, Demetrios ################### From: dmaupin@ix.netcom.com (Douglas E. Maupin ) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 07:51:22 -0800 Subject: Dec. issue of CPN Greetings all, Just a quick question to find out if anyone received their December 96 issue of CPN? Does anyone know if it has been mailed? Kind Regards, Doug ################### From: Steve Baker Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 11:04:08 -0600 Subject: Re: Dec. issue of CPN All, Dec 96 CPN is on its way to ALL. It was delayed for election of new officers. To get out the election results. Sorry it was so late. Steve Baker CPN Publishing Editor ################### From: Guido.J.Braem@bio.uni-giessen.de Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 18:29:55 +0000 Subject: List owner Could one of the List owners please contact me. Thanks Guido Dr. Guido J. Braem ---- Plant Taxonomist Naunheimer Str. 17 D-35633 Lahnau Germany Tel. [+49](6441]65333 Fax [+49](6441)65334 ################### From: Guido.J.Braem@bio.uni-giessen.de Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 18:29:55 +0000 Subject: Useless mail Tobias I wrote > It was just an advertisement for a new book about south east Asia > with some features like limited to 1500 books; bound by hand with > linnen (or linen ?) and leather by someone who also bound the > Gutenberg Bible; with a preface by Mr. Somlabh Kitiyakara, > descendent of king Chulalongkorn of Thailand; recommended by the > literature council of the German minister of science, research and > art; including 72 color pictures. Yes, I wonder how it made its way on this list. I think messages like that should be screened out. However, Tobias, about you two thruths, the first one is wrong. Cheers Guido Dr. Guido J. Braem ---- Plant Taxonomist Naunheimer Str. 17 D-35633 Lahnau Germany Tel. [+49](6441]65333 Fax [+49](6441)65334 ################### From: Steven_I._Lanham@bridge.com (Steven I. Lanham) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 12:06:23 -0600 Subject: Drosera dormancy question Hi I need some advice You see for the last week its been very warm here 50 to 74F so two of my plants came out of dormancy a Drosera filiformis and a Drosera binata. Well today winter came back and I can let it get cold in the plant room simply by leaving the window open. But will this hurt my two plants? This is my first winter with these plants and I don't know what to do. Will it hurt the rest of my plants to let it warm up so soon? These are the first two plants that went dormant this fall and so they have had the longest rest time of any of my plants. Regards Steve Lanham ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 22:09:53 +0100 Subject: Re: Recent miracle! On 3 Jan 97 at 10:17, ROBERT POGSON wrote: > Last summer I received some seed of D. capensis from Dean Cook > through this list. I planted in July but saw nothing for months. > I had put the terrarium aside in a window of my bath. I had even > quit misting it as I had given up but it was covered and somewhat > moist. Lo! two days ago I was bathing and happened to turn my > head close to it. There were a couple of specks of green! Joy! > They've grown enough I can see the tentacles now. Well I don't know what took them so long, but part of the attraction of growing Drosera from seed is that the first true leaf which appears between the cotyledons comes complete the tentacles. Similarly with Sarracenia - the first true leaf is a tiny pitcher (which usually manages to trap some equally tiny insects!). -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) ################### From: Loren Russell Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 12:57:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: exotic species I'm sure that many of you know this, but poison ivy [and its western counterpart, poison oak [Rhus radicans, R.diversiloba] ARE native to north america. Being nasty, brutish, and weedy does not necessarily mean exotic! I believe the urticating Rhus must occur in eastern Asia as well, since there has been some research in biological control of p.ivy and p.oak using exotic insects.. I notice that the mis-information expands as the square of off-topicness. Loren Russell, Corvallis, Oregon ################### From: Alastair Robinson <100611.1627@CompuServe.COM> Date: 05 Jan 97 19:25:39 EST Subject: Re:N.khasiana I have received a few replies with regards to my N.khasiana note - evidently they do enjoy fluorescent light which means that either both my plants were genetic throwbacks or, more plausible, that the guardian spirits of this species have cursed me. Thanks for all you help! Regards, Alastair. ################### From: L235@aol.com Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 19:44:05 -0500 Subject: Campaign promises Dear all, Several threads ago (before captive propagation vs. extinction, but after "are VFT's from Mars?" ) We were discussing whether or not the ICPS was truly an International organization. At that time, I promised, that, if elected as ICPS vice president, I would do everything possible to make the organzation as welcoming and useful to CP enthusiasts and experts, regardless of their geography. Ok, I won (thanks to all, mostly US members, probably, who were able to get their votes in on time ). So the offer still stands, I stand open and ready to accept suggestions, criticisms, comments, flames, what have you. I can't promise results, but I can promise effort. Your humble ICPS vice-servant, Jay Lechtman (L235@aol.com) ################### From: Philip Thomas Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 15:34:09 -1000 (HST) Subject: RE: Non-native species >Philip Thomas wrote: > > >>BTW, Hawaii's only NATIVE CP is Drosera anglica (on the island of >>Kauai, probably brought in as a seed on the foot of a migrating >>golden plover). > > >I think I understand the point, but to pick a nit, it seems that >Hawaii's only NATIVE CP was introduced by a bird. So, in a >situation like this (land formed by volcanic action), are native >species those introduced by non-humans, and invaders introduced by >humans? Precisely BY DEFINITION native species are those NOT introduced by humans ("invaders"--a term usually used for particularly "bad" weeds/other species--are a subset of non-natives, in this context). >Obviously, for an island like Kauai to have any plants (or animals) >they would have to have been introduced at some time or other. You >could make the point (call it sophistry if you want, I don't mind) >that since humans also arose through evolution, (or creation, which >would lead to a different line of argument) they are part of nature >and so their actions should be considered different from other >creatures only to the extent that they are so capable of changing >things. I think that is a very eloquent summary of how I feel about a very sticky topic. However, Homo sapiens in most of historic time (including all of "modern history") is certainly this creature with ability to change this MUCH MORESO than ANY OTHER SPECIES. The difference between native species and introduced (non-native) species can be expressed in terms of RATE OF INTRODUCTION/RATE OF CHANGE OF RATE OF INTRODUCTION. The rate of change of introductions is MANY ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE GREATER than historically (geologic time); biological evolution simply can't keep up with the current rate of "introductions". (e.g. there are [to orders of magnitude] 1,000 native flowering plants in Hawaii, which have arrived/evolved over a period of over 7,000,000 years, vs. 10,000 introductions in the past 200 years. Many of these plants are from areas of well-developed, ecologically "full" continental ecosystems [e.g. SE Asia, S. Africa, S. America] where intense competition has been "selected for" for millions of years, and they have arrived into an "ecologically barren" region with MUCH fewer/very different types of pressures. Many of these (e.g. Pennisetum setaceum on the Big Island) dominate landscapes/entire ecosystems "INSTANTANEOUSLY" (in geologic time). With this rate of change with this set of diversity swamping "fragile" ecosystems (let's NOT discuss that here; it's a long topic in itself), there's NO CHANCE for "biological evolution" [="natural" forces] to compete. WE LOSE INCREDIBLE BIODIVERSITY. Granted, effects on islands are often more dramatic; Hawaii is perhaps the most dramatic example on the planet (the islands are [well, "were"] more biologically isolated than any other terrestrial system. However, the point is that non-native invasions are neither uncommon nor without dire, long-reaching effects. For a couple more websites with examples of the problems created by non-native species (there is increasing concern nationally and internationally about this topic), see (in addition to http://www2.hawaii.edu/~halesci/AlienSpeciesInHawaii): http://www.tnc.org/science/src/weeds/tncwwmr.htm http://www.nfrcg.gov/nas/ Note also the organizations concerned (The Nature Conservancy, USGS/BRD [formerly the National Biological Service]); this are mainstream, important folks! There are numerous other sites & organizations concerned w/ alien species, these are just to getyou started. Thanks for the discussion & interest; I encourage you to do what you can to help curtail these problems. Though this thread is not directly talking about CP, it IS directly relevant, for much CP habitat is directly impacted (negatively, I might add) by alien species on an international scale. -Philip Thomas Research Associate Research Corp. of Univ. Hawaii Hawaiian Ecosystems at Risk Project ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Philip A. Thomas - thomasp@maui.com OR halesci@hawaii.edu P.O. Box 1272 - Puunene, Maui, Hawaii 96784 USA voice: (808) 572-9306 ext. 3233 fax: (808) 572-1304 http://www.maui.com/~thomasp/PhilipAnthonyThomas # Opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent ## ## the views of USGS/BRD, RCUH, CPSU, UH, or anyone besides just me!# ################### From: Philip Thomas Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 15:44:06 -1000 (HST) Subject: RE: Extinction Truth is, that there is concern even in USFWS offices (officially responsible for listing/recovery of endangered species) about the PERCEPTION that if something is available as ex situ propagated material that it is "okay" and so it's "more okay" (for developers) to destroy/"mitigate" (often synonymous) the (often only or one-=of-few) remaining site "in the wild." USFWS people aren't the ones who have this perception, but developers certainly try to make this case -- and when only part of the story is presented, it can (unfortunately) sound pretty convincing to the general public. -pt ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Philip A. Thomas - thomasp@maui.com OR halesci@hawaii.edu P.O. Box 1272 - Puunene, Maui, Hawaii 96784 USA voice: (808) 572-9306 ext. 3233 fax: (808) 572-1304 http://www.maui.com/~thomasp/PhilipAnthonyThomas # Opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent ## ## the views of USGS/BRD, RCUH, CPSU, UH, or anyone besides just me!# ################### From: "Zachary Kaufman" Date: 6 Jan 1997 03:57:05 -0000 Subject: N. khasiana under flourescent lights I have no problem growing N. khasiana under flourescent lights (one flourescent tube a Phyllips Agro and the other a cool white). potting mix: mixture of long fiber sphagnum moss, perlite, orchid bark, lava rock (all in all, a very open mix) prefered temperature range: They seem to do best with temps in the range of 70-85F --Zachary-- --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- ################### From: Mark van Kleunen Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 08:30:16 +0100 Subject: Re: cell stains >At 01:23 AM 1/4/97 -0800, you wrote: >>Today I flattened a bladderwort bladder between a cover slip and a slide >>to view it under a microscope at home. Unfortunately, the cells >>were rather difficult to see. Does anyone know of something >>around the house or readily available that can be used as a stain for >>cells? >>Thanks, >>--Zachary-- Zachary, Different substances are used to stain different kinds of plant material (lignin, cork etc.). You might incubate the bladderworts in blue toluidine which stains cellulose. However, I do not think you can find it around the house. >Hi Zachary, > >I seem to remember from high school biology that liquid iodine (used for >cuts and scrapes) was a stain. Then again I could be mistaken :-) > >Hope this will help, >John in Phoenix Iodine is used to stain starch, I don't think the bladderworts will contain much starch. But you can try it since it is easier to get than toluidine. Good luck, Mark van Kleunen ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 08:48:46 Subject: Re: ?D.peltata? Dear Dave & Peter, > > I was able to count six green yet hairy > > sepals and six petals but If your plant has a corm, this number is clearly an aberration. But this kind of thing is not at all unusual in _Drosera_. The plant "meant" 5 but by "mistake" produced 6. Did you count the styles (should be 3 at the base)? > > Anyway, there are only two flowers and Jan's key calls for > > around ten. The key wants 5-20 but poor (cultivated) specimens could have less. Anyway, the differences between many of the recently described forms and _D. peltata_ proper are in some cases so weak that their distinctness is in some cases rather doubtful. All of the new forms were described from W AU, and the respective author is not necessarily familiar with the species and its variability on a global scale. > > What I did come up with is D.salina... Did it have: "Lamina of basal leaves flabellate, folded, (...) erect stem flexuous" as noted in the key? > The sepals sound more like peltata too - D.salina has glabrous sepals > according to Lowrie, while peltata's are dotted with terete-stalked > glands. The extent of indumentum and ciliature of the sepals in _D. peltata_ is very variable, as has been demonstrated by the only thorough investigation on this topic by Barry J. Conn, so I have used this character for determinative purposes only very reluctantly. _D. peltata subsp. pletata_ has "hairy or glabrous" sepals, already subsp. _auriculata_ has "glabrous" ones (cf. the mentioned key). Kind regards Jan ################### From: James Lavin Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 01:04:03 -0700 (MST) Subject: Hello I would like to introduce myself as a new member of the CP listserv. My name is James Lavin, and I am a student at a Colorado high school. Currently I am doing work with callus growth from plant tissue samples, and decided to explore carnivorous plants as a possible direction for my research. I had read that the natural CP's are being destroyed and thus am working on re-introducing plants through somatic embryogenesis. If anyone has any information concerning this, please E-mail me at: jlavin@kadets.d20.co.edu. Thank you, James Lavin ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 09:03:35 Subject: Re: ??D.diels. * D. sp. Trans.?? Dear Dave & Peter, > I hear it's > self-fertile? and that the sp. 'Transvaal' may be D.collinsiae? (I > think that was it, or maybe affinis...) I can't remember who I > heard this from - came up in Email a couple of months ago. _D. affinis_ is from tropical AF and not known from Transvaal, so the former is much more probable (even the type specimen of _D. collinsiae_ being from Transvaal). It could also be an aberrant form of the widespread and rather variable _D. madagascariensis_. I also think the juvenile plants are not representative, and any similarity with _D. spatulata_ and _D. capensis_ will (hopefully) disappear after a while. > It goes to show these S.African Drosera are a complex group! I don't think so unless excessive splitting is applied. They are certainly more complex than the EU, AS, or temperate N AM species but both S AM and especially AU present definitely much more problems. Kind regards Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 09:25:09 Subject: Re: Pronounce Latin Dear Laurent, What you propose is Italian but it has little to do with Latin. Thus, it is nearly as good or bad as French or German (i.e. perhaps a little more uniform than English). As I have written previously, Italian has some specific pronounciation rules developed after the decline of the Roman Empire, and these do in the first line affect the letter C. In fact, all Romance languages have their own rules in this respect, some of which being specific. The only fact in common is the difference between modern and Latin pronounciation (which in itself was not as homogeneous as we might think). > The 'A' in > all these examples is the european 'a' like in...'America'. But "America" has two "a"s, and they might be pronounced differently by some Europeans! I would even call our British fellows European (no insult intended!) although they might not consider themselves as continental. Kind regards Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 09:44:54 Subject: Re: Madagascar Dear Cindy, The _Nepenthes_ are nice but rather well-known and either +/- established in cultivation or endangered so visiting them is simple tourism (or worse). Much more interesting is the endemic _Drosera humbertii_, apparently a relative of _D. capensis_ from S AF but very little studied and rather little known. According to the protologue, it was collected on the "Marojejy Massif E summit, W Upper Manantenina". Another rather interesting species is _Genlisea margaretae_ (also known from Zambia and Tanzania) which was previously known from and has recently been rediscovered in Madagascar (under the synonym G. recurva). Bonne chance! Kind regards Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 10:09:51 Subject: Re: _Nepenthes_ naming Dear Doug, > Firstly I have a plant > labelled N. spectabilis x bongso, should that now be labelled as N. > spectabilis x talangensis? Is bongso a synonym for talangensis? If so > does this mean that the name N. bongso should theoretically become > obsolete, or does N. bongso refer to a distinct morphological > subgrouping within the species, N. talangensis? _N. talangensis_ is a valid name for *SOME* plants which have been *CONFUSED* with _N. bongso_ (also still a valid name!) in the past. So it depends on what was the parent species. Read the protologue of _N. talangensis_ carefully and see if you can decide what is the correct name (_N. bongso_ or _N. talangensis_). Then adjust your lables. > I also have a plant > labelled N. rafflesiana x stenophylla, should this plant also be > relabelled as N. rafflesiana x fallax? If so should the name N. > stenophylla be used for this species or should it be replaced by N. > fallax in all nepenthes collections? _N. fallax_ is the correct name for *SOME* plants that have been *CONFUSED* with _N. stenophylla_ in the past. Unfortunately the one who confused them was DANSER (the _Nepenthes_ emperor) himself. He did not know the type of _N. stenophylla_ which looks rather different. Few subscribers of the cp list will have access to the protologue or type of _N. stenophylla_ (however, you should have or create access to Danser's text if you want to identify _Nepenthes_), so here some problems could arise. With Danser's text at your disposal, look if your plant looks like _N. fusca_. If this is the case and your plants are not from Kalimantan (Indonesian Borneo), then you probably have _N. stenophylla_. If the plant looks like what Danser has (erroneously) depicted and described as "N. stenophylla", then your plant is definitely _N. fallax_. Hybrids are frequently rather difficult to identify so rather try to trace the parent species. > My next query is in relation to the identification of seedlings > that may arise from a nepenthes cross > I have done between a female N. rafflesiana (white) with the pollen > from N rafflesiana(brunei) x N. rafflesiana (singapore giant). This > should produce the species N. rafflesiana. It is highly improbable or > impossible that such a cross would take place in nature. Should such > crosses (I use the word loosely) be assigned cultivar names to > seperate them from naturally occuring variations within the same > species? Yes if you want to give them a name to distinguish them from other clones. > I last query is unfortunately about a plant or plants that I > do not own and if the exploitation of nepenthes in the wild continues > may in fact never get to see. Are N. aristolochioides and N. tudjah > one and the same? If so which is the correct name? None. Supposedly, "N. aristolochioides" will be validated sometimes (we are waiting since two years...) and will then be the correct name. "N. spec. "Tudjuh"" is only a bogus name (for the same species) indicating the locality. It has no nomenclatural significance whatsoever. Kind regards Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 11:09:07 Subject: Re: Carnivorous Orchids Dear Danny & al., > As far as we know the traps of all CP are leaves rather than flowers. A > carnivorous flower would be selective against pollinators, provided that it > offers a reward to visitors. Orchids do not seem to offer any reward and > are therefore unlikely to have developed carnivory. Many do, however, > exploit insects for pollination by mimicry. The case with no reward whatsoever in orchids is not entirely true (how could it be so in a family as awfully large and diverse as this?). There are species producing nectar (i.e. nutritional rewards, e.g. many of the spurred species). Some species (especially of Stanhopeinae) produce and secrete "perfume" which is collected by male individuals of certain insect species (e.g. solitary bees) which pollinate them. The males in turn attract their respective females with this olfactory lure for reasons everyone on this list will be able to imagine... Last but not least, orchids reward us by the beauty of their flowers and several are in the meanwhile exclusively pollinated by _Homo sapiens_. > Does anybody know of mycorrhiza in CP? Might the absence of > specific fungi be a reason for difficulties we have in growing > certain CP? Yes, perhaps. Maybe it is even the reason for the difficulties they had in nature so that acquisition of carnivorous properties was an evolutionary advantage. Lentibulariaceae, a family perhaps derived from aquatic ancestors (Scrophulariales are parasitic rather than mycorrhizal, anyway), seems to be entirely non-mycorrhizal. The "extended caryophyllid clade" with _Nepenthes_, _Triphyophyllum_, _Drosophyllum_, and Droseraceae contains naphthoquinones which seem to "protect" from fungal contacts rather efficiently. The instance of root fungi mentioned for _Nepenthes mirabilis_ may be the rare exception rather than the rule. So at least the greatest bulk of cp species seem to be essentially non-mycorrhizal. I have no information on Sarraceniaceae, _Byblis_, or _Cephalotus_. No mycorrhiza could be found in dried or living specimens of _Roridula_ although Marloth has mentioned associated fungi. But on the other hand _Roridula_ is only sub- carnivorous, either. Kind regards Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 11:18:12 Subject: Re: Identify this Nepenthes please Dear Clarke, > I've just uploaded a page with a picture of a Nepenthes on it. This > was one of several unrooted cuttings which Andreas Wistuba sent me > about a year ago. I managed to root 4 in total (not bad for a > beginner, and in the depths of Winter too), but this one is the most > notable so far, having soon developed these attractive pitchers. The picture is not very detailed but it looks as if the lid had an appendage on the lower surface at its distal end. This would indicate that you have _N. maxima_ or a hybrid or relative thereof. Kind regards Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 12:22:01 Subject: Re: CP's in the tropics ? Dear Jorge, > Currently I live in Costa Rica (about 10 lat), in San Jose which > is about 1000 m above sea level (~3000 ft for people in the US). I would > like to know: > > 1-) Is there any CP which's natural habitat is around my country or > country's characteristics ? If you mean the tropics with "your country's characteristics", I can assure you that more than 70% of all known cps grow under these conditions (less than 30 lat). In Costa Rica so far only representatives of the genus _Utricularia_ have been found to constitute the carnivorous flora: _U. amethystina_, _U. endresii_, _U. foliosa_, _U. gibba_, _U. hydrocarpa_, _U. jamesoniana_, _U. praetermissa_, _U. purpurea_, _U. pusilla_, _U. subulata_, _U. unifolia_. None is endemic. Some are weeds. I would guess that there are chances to discover at least one species of _Drosera_ (e.g. _D. capillaris_) there but I do not know of any record. Kind tropical regards from rather temperate Germany (15 cm snow today) Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 12:47:06 Subject: Re: biogeographical studies Dear Mervyn, > I am writing this to enquire if anybody knows of or has any > litterature regarding the biogeographical and evolutionary affinities > of cp's specifically Drosera. Biogeographical affinities of _Drosera_ have been discussed by Diels in his monograph on the genus. The chorology of the European representatives is treated in Meusel & al., Chorologie der zentraleuropaeischen Flora. Palynology is mentioned by Krutzsch in a series of papers (if you are interested in this mainly European stuff, I could look up some refs.). A few scattered pollen records from the S hemisphere are also hidden in the pertinent literature. Evolutionary affinities have been rather disputed but I think that recent (genetical, anatomical, palynological, phytochemical, etc.) research has set at least an orientation mark inasmuch as _Drosera_ is in fact most closely related to _Aldrovanda_ and _Dionaea_, these genera constituting Droseraceae s.str.. _Drosophyllum_ is also related but falls closer to an exclusively tropical group constituted by Dioncophyllaceae and Ancistrocladaceae. "Somehow" related (but not as intimately so as in the preceding examples) are also Nepenthaceae, Plumbaginaceae, Polygonaceae, and probably Frankeniaceae and Tamaricaceae. Together these form a sister clade to Caryophyllidae s. str. For abstracts cf. Cameron & al., Am. J. Bot. 82:117 (1995), Albert & Stevenson, Am. J. Bot. 83:135 (1996). I have submitted a ms. to CPN but this was not published yet (or was it? does someone have the December issue?). Full papers: Albert & al., Science 257:1491-1495 (1992), Williams & al., Am. J. Bot. 81:1027-1037 (1994). Kind regards Jan ################### From: Phill Cook Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 15:12:37 +0000 (GMT) Subject: A question about Drosophyllum! Firstly thanks to everyone who helped me out last year, especially to Clark Brunt (?) who sent me some seeds of Darlingtonia. Last year I asked about germinating Drosophyllum, and received lots of good advice (*thanks*). Following it, something germinated after about a week. However, although its roughly in the right place in the pot, I'm not convinced its a Droso. Obviously the baby leaves it germinates with (sorry, the scientific name for them escapes me, but I'm just not a botanist!) will not be carnivorous, but should all of the following leaves be? This plant has also put on two or three other leaves and they are certianly not what one would expect an adult Drosophyllum leaf to look like. All help would be useful; I don't want to be carefully tending a weed! Have a good new year, Phillip Cook ################### From: Wayne Forrester Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 08:29:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: A question about Drosophyllum! Hi Phill, Given my extensive experience with cultivating Drosophyllum, I think I can answer your question. I planted four of the seeds I received from Glenn Rankin, and had a single seed germinate and grow successfully (Thanks Glenn. I'm so excited I check the little plant every day to watch it's progress). I never saw any non-carnivorous leaves produced on this plant at germination and don't know whether this is typical, or perhaps they were produced but did not break the surface of the soil. Anyway, all the leaves have been exactly as expected. The first leaves I saw were about an inch in length and had plenty of "dew" covering their surfaces, and all subsequent leaves have looked the same, although they were much longer. I hate to say it, but it sounds like you have a weed growing. It took 5 or 6 weeks for mine to germinate, so perhaps you just need to wait longer. Hope this helps. Wayne Forrester On Mon, 6 Jan 1997, Phill Cook wrote: > > > Firstly thanks to everyone who helped me out last year, especially > to Clark Brunt (?) who sent me some seeds of Darlingtonia. > > Last year I asked about germinating Drosophyllum, and received lots > of good advice (*thanks*). Following it, something germinated > after about a week. However, although its roughly in the right > place in the pot, I'm not convinced its a Droso. Obviously the > baby leaves it germinates with (sorry, the scientific name for them > escapes me, but I'm just not a botanist!) will not be carnivorous, > but should all of the following leaves be? This plant has also put > on two or three other leaves and they are certianly not what one > would expect an adult Drosophyllum leaf to look like. > > All help would be useful; I don't want to be carefully tending a > weed! > > Have a good new year, > > Phillip Cook > ################### From: Gary Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 11:35:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: Milder than usual SF winter? Hi everyone-- Have any other SF Bay Area CPers noticed anything strange about our winter? I've seen a plum tree in full bloom, and several other trees on my block look like their about to bloom as well. I just clipped a flower stalk from one of my thriving VFTs and a S. leucophylla. What's the deal? Not a single one of my outdoors CPs wants to go dormant or stay dormant. I'm leaving them be for now, but I was wondering if anyone else in the region was having similar experiences and what they are doing about it. Thanks, Gary ################### From: ACArnold@aol.com Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 15:36:11 -0500 Subject: Re: ... In a message dated 05/01/97 01:26:07, you write: > Dear Dave - you're gonna enjoy this... the first N.khasiana I had was in my > all-round semi-epiphytic, barky mix, which goes great for all my other > Nepenthes > whilst the second, peat, sand and bark in roughly equal proportions, it died > too, so..! Just to add my 2p worth - I used to grow N. khasiana quite successfully in a terrarium with about 1 to 1.5 inches of peat with a little charcoal added to 'keep it sweet' as per the instructions on my packet of seed (from Chiltern seeds I think). The terrarium sat on my windowsill at work and got very little attention - faced west approx. Unfortunately, when I went abroad for a while, the users of my office 'forgot' to water at all and they died:-( They wouldn't have won any prizes for size but did have good traps - they didn't get much food either which probably accounts for the size, or lack of it:-) Regards, Adrian ################### From: dave evans Date: Mon, 06 Jan 97 17:23 EST Subject: Re: Re: ?D.peltata? Hi Jan, > If your plant has a corm, this number is clearly an aberration. But > this kind of thing is not at all unusual in _Drosera_. The plant > "meant" 5 but by "mistake" produced 6. Did you count the styles > (should be 3 at the base)? I didn't have the chance to count anything inside the flower... It was very fast at closing up. I must have caught it has the flower was already closing. It (they) have corms, BTW. > The key wants 5-20 but poor (cultivated) specimens could have less. It *appears* quite happy. Of course, it's still under lights, in a pot, ect... (traps are red at the tips so they ought to be getting the right amount of light.) > Anyway, the differences between many of the recently described forms > and _D. peltata_ proper are in some cases so weak that their > distinctness is in some cases rather doubtful. All of the new forms > were described from W AU, and the respective author is not > necessarily familiar with the species and its variability on a global > scale. > > > > What I did come up with is D.salina... > > Did it have: > "Lamina of basal leaves flabellate, folded, (...) erect stem > flexuous" as noted in the key? Flabellate (fan shaped):no, though some do come close. They also didn't match the leaves for D.peltata either but fall somewhere in the middle... The leaves: none are flat and some are folded and the stem is flexuous, but then I can't believe any of the stems on any upright species wouldn't show some bending where the petioles join the stem... How much bending = flexuous? > > The sepals sound more like peltata too - D.salina has glabrous sepals > > according to Lowrie, while peltata's are dotted with terete-stalked > > glands. > > The extent of indumentum and ciliature of the sepals in _D. > peltata_ is very variable, as has been demonstrated by the only > thorough investigation on this topic by Barry J. Conn, so I have > used this character for determinative purposes only very reluctantly. > _D. peltata subsp. pletata_ has "hairy or glabrous" sepals, > already subsp. _auriculata_ has "glabrous" ones (cf. the mentioned > key). I didn't notice what the key mentions about the sepals for D.salina. The sepals did have quite a bit of brown hair on them though. If D.salina is glabrous then this plant is not it. Dave Evans ################### From: dave evans Date: Mon, 06 Jan 97 17:32 EST Subject: Re: A question about Drosophyllum! > From: Phill Cook > > week. However, although its roughly in the right place in the pot, > I'm not convinced its a Droso. Obviously the baby leaves it > germinates with (sorry, the scientific name for them escapes me, > but I'm just not a botanist!) will not be carnivorous, but should > all of the following leaves be? This plant has also put on two or > three other leaves and they are certianly not what one would expect > an adult Drosophyllum leaf to look like. This one is for Jan. When the three seeds sprouted in my Droso pot, the first thing I noticed was: the cotyledon (baby leaves) have traps! Anyway, as I thought about it, I figured perhaps they don't develop and are "absorbed" into the stem before the plant becomes visible. If not, then even the cotyledon for this genus are carnivorous! (Unlikely, but if true, another good reason they're not related to Drosera). Dave Evans ################### From: Glenn Rankin Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 14:59:45 PST Subject: Re: A question about Drosophyllum! When I've bothered to look, I have found that no cotyledons appear for Drosophyllum seedlings. The seedcoat is retained by two very short projections (cotyledons that never shed the seedcoat?) that attach at right angles to the main plant, which is stem and leaves above and root below. FWIW, I have read that the same occurs for tuberous drosera: ie if the seedling has cotyledons it is not a tuberous drosera. Glenn > > > > From: Phill Cook > > > > week. However, although its roughly in the right place in the > > pot, I'm not > > convinced its a Droso. Obviously the baby leaves it germinates > > with (sorry, the scientific name for them escapes me, but I'm > > just not a botanist!) will not be carnivorous, but should all of > > the following leaves be? This plant has also put on two or three > > other leaves and they are certianly not what one would expect an > > adult Drosophyllum leaf to look like. > > > This one is for Jan. When the three seeds sprouted in my Droso > pot, the first thing I noticed was: the cotyledon (baby leaves) > have traps! Anyway, as I thought about it, I figured perhaps they > don't develop and are "absorbed" into the stem before the plant > becomes visible. If not, then even the cotyledon for this genus > are carnivorous! (Unlikely, but if true, another good reason > they're not related to Drosera). > > Dave Evans > ################### From: Phil Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 22:41:11 GMT Subject: Re: Re: ?D.peltata? In your message dated Saturday 4, January 1997 you wrote : > In message <199701032340.AA007704833@jr.hpl.hp.com> cp@hplb.hpl.hp.com writes: > dave evans writes: > ... > > Anyway, the first one flowered today and I tried out Jan's > > new Drosera key. This is when my HEADACHE started. (it's still > > going strong, BTW.) I was able to count six green yet hairy > > sepals and six petals but in the time from moving the plant out > > from under the light and counting the petals, the flower closed. > > I put it back under the lights, it re-openned. I took it back > > out and it closed up again, just after I got a glimpse inside! > > Anyway, there are only two flowers and Jan's key calls for > > around ten. What I did come up with is D.salina... The petals > > are white, and I've been told that D.peltata is always pink. > > I've heard of white-flowering D.peltata (though mine are all > pink,) - these might be misidentified, but it's quite a variable > species, I guess because it ranges so far. Perhaps you've got a > Japanese or NZ plant, which I'd expect to show the most divergence > from the norm. I doubt it's D.salina - this one's a flat rosette > producing a much shorter climbing stem - no more than 3 or 4 inches > compared to twice that or more for D.peltata (I've got one that's 13 > inches tall ATM!, but that's unusual.) Lowrie also shows D.salina as > being 5-petalled and 5-staminate, so it would be as abberant for this > species as D.peltata. I've not kept this one long enough to flower, > so I can't comment on variation in floral structures. > I also find more variety in D.peltata flowering than the books or > Jan's key indicates - anything from 0 to 10 or so flowers per plant, > though the flowers may not all appear at once, and it doesn't appear > to be consistent by original location or even individual tuber, but > rather (probably,) a response to cultivation conditions. > The sepals sound more like peltata too - D.salina has glabrous sepals > according to Lowrie, while peltata's are dotted with terete-stalked > glands. > Dave, Peter, Jan, There certainly are white flowered plants of D. peltata. Plants from the South Australia area are green in colour, seem to be generally more robust and vigorous and have white flowers. The form which grows in Western Australia seems to be smaller, less vigorous and has a reddish colour. So weak is the Western Australian plant that I have never yet managed to keep it for more than one season. I have no experiance with the Japanese plants but the New Zealand plants also have subtle differences. Mainly the stem and the foliage are more delicate but the plants are as tall growing (if not taller) than their South Australian cousins. All my New Zealand plants have pink flowers. Regarding the number of flowers on a plant, this will inevitably vary according to the age of the plant and it's general condition. I would suggest that your plant is probably either a juvenille or it did not react as well as it should to being uprooted. From seed D. peltata can be pretty vigorous. I have had plants flower in the same year that they germinated - almost unheard of in the tiberous Drosera world. Regarding the differences between D. auriculata and D. peltata I would agree that sepal difference (glabrous D. auriculata, hairy D. peltata) is consistent. However, the appearence of a basal rosette is not (IMO) a consistent indicator. I have not only plants of D. auriculata which produce a basal rosette but I also have plants which will produce one in some years and in other years won't. -- Phil Wilson (cp@pwilson.demon.co.uk) ################### From: "Demetrio Lamzaki" Date: Tue, 7 Jan 97 01:51:11 UT Subject: Wet Winter >Have any other SF Bay Area CPers noticed anything strange >about our winter? Yes, we've gotten more rain in one week than we get all winter during most years! :-O Congratulations to everyone who's managed to keep your head above the water line. The sky has recently cleared up and the sun has finally returned, but now the fun starts, as if we didn't get wet enough the first time around the run-off from the melting snow on the Sierras is overflowing the rivers and breaking levies as I write this. This is the worst flooding we've had since I've been here. I hope everybody out there made it through O.K. Take care, Demetrios ################### From: Alastair Robinson <100611.1627@CompuServe.COM> Date: 06 Jan 97 21:30:43 EST Subject: Re:Drosophyllum I have never seen a Drosophyllum "in the flesh", but from its appearance I have always assumed that it was monocotyledonous as opposed to being a dicot?? - thus surely it would not bear 'seed leaves' as people might expect but have at most, if not emergent directly from the seed, a coleoptile? Puzzled, Alastair. ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Mon, 06 Jan 1997 19:02:32 -0800 Subject: RE: home cell stain Dear Zachary, > Today I flattened a bladderwort bladder between a cover slip and a > slide to view it under a microscope at home. Unfortunately, the cells > were rather difficult to see. Does anyone know of something around > the house or readily available that can be used as a stain for cells? You might try an iodine solution from the drug store. It should turn all starchy structures a nice purple color. If you want to get a bit fancier, try Edmund Scientific: 1-609-573-6250 Deluxe Slide exploration kit: itme M52,805 $29.95. All the basic accessories required to preapre biological specimens for micrscopic examinati. Kit includes 20 blank slides, 3 prepared slides, 3 culture slides, scalpel, needle, probe, tweezers, eye dropper, cover glasses, labels, shrimp eggs, color salt powder, dry yeast, glue, **** eosin, methylene blue and safranine dye. **** ES Specimen staining kit: item M36,186 $21.95. Includes 11 blank slides, 1 well slide, 12 cover glasses, glue, labels, eye dropper and o *** dyes: eosin (red), methylene blue, safranine, and fast green. *** -- Rick Walker ################### From: Aaron Hicks Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 20:12:55 -0700 (MST) Subject: Nitrogen uptake *SNIP! I was asked by an ecologist friend how she might measure the *nitrogen budget of a carnivorous pitcher plant. She wants to know how efficiently nitrogen-containing compounds from the decaying/digesting prey in the pitcher are absorbed and utilized by the plant. *SNIP!* This was snipped from a missive from a prof at my alma mater; he suggests that labeled nitrogen is not viable (their NMR is only 80 Mhz), and that GC-MS would be a bear due to sample workup. Anybody have any suggested techniques for determining nitrogen uptake in Sarracenias? -AJHicks Wonk Socorro, NM ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 07:59:43 Subject: Re: Re: ?D.peltata? Dear Phil, > Regarding the differences between D. auriculata and D. peltata I would > agree that sepal difference (glabrous D. auriculata, hairy D. > peltata) is consistent. So *please* read the Conn paper to believe the opposite. Kind regards Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 08:10:05 Subject: Re:Drosophyllum Dear Alastair, > I have never seen a Drosophyllum "in the flesh", but from its appearance > I have always assumed that it was monocotyledonous as opposed to > being a dicot?? - thus surely it would not bear 'seed leaves' as > people might expect but have at most, if not emergent directly from > the seed, a coleoptile? Sorry to disappoint you but _Drosophyllum_ is a very straightforward dicot without any trace of coleoptiles or that like. In fact there are very few if any monocots with reverse circinate vernation, and I don't think any has abaxial stalked mucilage glands. Also, the flowers are in standard dicot proportions. So there is really at the most a very very slight resemblance to monocots in _Drosophyllum_. Kind regards Jan ################### From: PAULBOURBIN@delphi.com Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 02:14:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: The mild winter in San Francisco Hi Gary et al. I have also noticed that plants are not acting normally this winter. Acacia and broom are blooming now (ruining my winter break from hayfever) as are quite a few cp. I have noticed that plant behavior has become more erratic since the end of the last drought. In spite of my best efforts, many cp will not go dormant. In fact, some of my Nepenthes are doing better now than in what passed for last summer. CP must experience occasional mild winters in their native habitats. Hopefully our cp will too. Paul Bourbin ################### From: Gilles Lardy Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 11:53:42 +0100 (MET) Subject: Looking for Rickie in HK... Hi everybody, Would anybody have the e-mail address of Rickie Leung in HK, since I have lost it ? Thanks ################### From: "M Dunlop" Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 12:53:32 +0000 Subject: PLEASE RESPOND EVERYONE PRIVATELY TO STEALTH@ICAN.NET Hi there!!!!! I'm looking for a broad range of people to answer this survey and e-mail this filled out form to: stealth@ican.net This survey is to help me complete my thesis for my Honours Bachelor of Science in Forestry. When answering the yes/no questions please feel free to add your own comments. When answering the multiple choice please (X) the appropriate answer. Please answer the questions to the best of your knowledge. If you have any questions or further comments please feel free to e-mail me at the address above. 1. Where do you live? (Province and City) 2. What do you do for a living? 3. How old are you? 4. What was the last grade that you completed? 5. What is your definition of a forest ( )a) a source of timber ( )b) a source of food ( )c) a place for recreation ( )d) habitat for plants and animals ( )e) a source of economic gain ( )f) other please specify 6. Do you use the forest for anything? (yes/no) 6b. If yes, please list what you use the forest for (hunting, fishing, hiking etc.). 7. What is the greatest threat to the forest ( )a) logging ( )b) pollution ( )c) forest fires and insects ( )d) human intervention in nature ( )e) other please specify 8. Do you feel we are degrading the forest? (yes/no) 9. Do you feel we are protecting the forest? (yes/no) 10. Do you feel that we should be using the forest for economic gain? (yes/no) 11. Do you think we are planting enough trees? (yes/no) 12. Do you think the forest industry or the government should be responsible for planting trees (reforestation)? (yes/no) 13. What would you consider good reforestation practices ( )a) planting the same species of trees ( )b) planting different species of trees in the same area ( )c) allowing the forest to return naturally 14. Do you think the forest industry needs regulating by the government? (yes/no) 15. If yes, why? 16. Should we be managing our forests? (yes/no) 17. If yes, what do you consider good management policies ( )a) managing for economic gain ( )b) managing for recreation i.e. fishing, hunting ( )c) managing for a diverse forest i.e. different plants and animals ( )d) managing for conservation of the forest and it's resources ( )e) other please specify 18. Do you think the forest industry is doing enough to protect the environment? (yes/no) 19. Is there any harvesting/logging in your area? (yes/no) 20. Is the forest industry harvesting (cutting) too many trees, just enough trees, or too few trees? 21. Do you think clearcutting is a good forest practice? (yes/no) 22. Do you think clearcuts are ( )a) too widely used ( )b) used just enough ( )c) not used enough 23. Should we allow harvesting in old growth forests? (yes/no) 24. If yes, who should regulate the amount cut ( )a) the forest industry ( )b) the government ( )c) the public 25. Do you think there are too many logging roads? (yes/no) 26. Do you think the logging roads give us too much access to the forest? (yes/no) 27. If yes or no please explain. 28. If an educational program on forestry practices and the forest industry were to become available in your area would you attend? (yes/no) A) if yes, why? B) if no, why not? 29. Would you become involved with the forest industry if public involvement was encouraged? (yes/no) A) if yes, why? B) if no, why not? 30. If you could attend a course/seminar on forestry what would you like to see covered? THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. If you know any one else who wouldn't mind taking the time to fill out this survey I would really appreciate their input.. ################### From: Rand Nicholson Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 17:53:15 -0400 Subject: Re: PLEASE RESPOND EVERYONE PRIVATELY TO STEALTH@ICAN.NET > Hi there!!!!! I'm looking for a broad range of people to >answer this survey and e-mail this filled out form to: > > stealth@ican.net > > This survey is to help me complete my thesis for my >Honours Bachelor of Science in Forestry. What is this? Aside from the _personal_ information requested, I also do not like the the last few questions. I am not just being crabby (so what if I am?). I get enough E-junk already from sources I have never heard of with better (supposed) reasons for asking personal questions than this. This may, indeed, be innocuous; but I'll take a pass. Rand ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 15:27:36 -0700 Subject: CPN on the Web Hello all.... I've completed and uploaded a link for CPN on the web. I would like to get feedback from any who look at it. It has server-side and client-side image maps. While I know they work for netscape, I don't know how the page looks for other browsers. In the future I will list "articles in this quarter's issue." Not the articles themselves, of course, but rather a list of the titles as a teaser to encourage subscribers. The sites are at http://www.indirect.com/www/bazza/cps/cpn/cpn.html with a mirror site (netscape only, for now) at http://mips3.as.arizona.edu/~barry/cps/cpn/cpn.html Barry ################### From: A.Falshaw@irl.cri.nz (Andy Falshaw) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:28:48 GMT+1200 Subject: Nitrogen uptake The usual way would be to use radiolabelled stuff, or a stable isotope and gcms. i don't think you can get radio nitrogen How about feeding the plant 14C labelled amino acids? And assuming that where the 14c goes is where the N goes? Andy > *SNIP! I was asked by an ecologist friend how she might measure > the nitrogen budget of a carnivorous pitcher plant. She wants to > know how efficiently nitrogen-containing compounds from the > decaying/digesting prey in the pitcher are absorbed and utilized > by the plant. *SNIP!* > > This was snipped from a missive from a prof at my alma mater; he > suggests that labeled nitrogen is not viable (their NMR is only 80 Mhz), > and that GC-MS would be a bear due to sample workup. > Anybody have any suggested techniques for determining nitrogen > uptake in Sarracenias? > > -AJHicks >Wonk > Socorro, NM ################### From: dave evans Date: Tue, 07 Jan 97 19:39 EST Subject: Re: Re: D.peltata? > I grew D. salina about five years ago. But this plant is a lot > smaller and mine NEVER grew to eight inches tall. Even Lowrie > states that D. salina reaches about 5cm (Carnivorous Plants of > Australia, vol.1, p.96). > > What colors were the tubers? This sometimes helps in determing > the species. Hi Chistoph, They are white and smooth, unlike the D.pelata tuber I recently received, which was bumpy. There was also a grey patch on the bottom of the tuber of the flowering plant. Dave E ################### From: dave evans Date: Tue, 07 Jan 97 19:43 EST Subject: Re: Nitrogen uptake > From: A.Falshaw@IRL.CRI.NZ(Andy Falshaw) > > The usual way would be to use radiolabelled stuff, or a stable > isotope and gcms. i don't think you can get radio nitrogen > How about feeding the plant 14C labelled amino acids? And assuming > that where the 14c goes is where the N goes? These is an interesting point! Do they assimilate the ammino acids directly after breaking down the protein? Dave E ################### From: dave evans Date: Tue, 07 Jan 97 20:52 EST Subject: Re: Re: _Nepenthes_ naming > > I have done between a female N. rafflesiana (white) with the pollen > > from N rafflesiana(brunei) x N. rafflesiana (singapore giant). This > > should produce the species N. rafflesiana. It is highly improbable or > > impossible that such a cross would take place in nature. Should such > > crosses (I use the word loosely) be assigned cultivar names to > > seperate them from naturally occuring variations within the same > > species? > > Yes if you want to give them a name to distinguish them from other > clones. The way I understand it, each seedling that comes up will need seperate names as cultivars. Is there any way to name the whole batch of seed under one name? Considering that Meryl could end up with hundreds of seedlings (and in the end, perhaps a couple dozen plants and couple "cultivar worthy" plants) for just this one cross, so many cultivars would be ridiculous. Perhaps it is best to just use the location data for most and name a couple that stand out... Any chance to rank the bunch as Sub-Cultivars? Dave Evans ################### From: dave evans Date: Tue, 07 Jan 97 21:32 EST Subject: Re: Re: ??D.diels. * D. sp. Trans.?? > From: SCHLAUER@CHEMIE.UNI-WUERZBURG.DE > > _D. affinis_ is from tropical AF and not known from Transvaal, so the > former is much more probable (even the type specimen of _D. > collinsiae_ being from Transvaal). It could also be an aberrant form > of the widespread and rather variable _D. madagascariensis_. I also > think the juvenile plants are not representative, and any similarity > with _D. spatulata_ and _D. capensis_ will (hopefully) disappear > after a while. Nope, they are very different, not just because they are juvenile. The rosetted plants are growing very fast and are already twice the size of the largest D.dielsiana I've seen. They have grown out 20-25 leaves while the erect (D.capensis?) plants have grown out about ten or so leaves. Tom Hayes saw them too, and agrees they're not the same, BTW. The rosetted plants' lamina bend upward while the other's bend downward. D.madagascariensis has rounded lamina, right? I just found a juvenile, upright, plant with rounded lamina growing in a pot with a Sarracenia. I have no idea how any seed (weed?) even got into the pot since it's in a Zip-loc bag. I also don't have any adult plants (or seedlings) that remotely look like this. The reason I'm writing about this one is it's not looking very happy and may be getting too much light. I'd really like to save it, but having no idea what it is, I don't know how to care for it. Imagine a cross between D. capensis and D.falconeri, though much smaller than either and so few leaves you can see the internodes. Eh! It sounds like something tuberous... Dave Evans ################### From: "A. Griesser" Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 23:18:51 +0000 Subject: RE: home cell stain Some stains are available from pet stores for use as fish medications. Malachite green, methylene blue, and no doubt some others can be obtained this way. ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 08:09:11 Subject: Re: Re: _Nepenthes_ naming Dear Dave, > The way I understand it, each seedling that comes up will need > seperate names as cultivars. Ideally, yes. But the ICNCP allows for naming of *different* clones by the same cv. name if they share a common reliably distinguishing feature. > Is there any way to name the whole > batch of seed under one name? There are several ways. If the plant does not differ sufficiently from either parent (which is what I would assume in our case), I would simply call it _Nepenthes rafflesiana_. > Considering that Meryl could end > up with hundreds of seedlings (and in the end, perhaps a couple > dozen plants and couple "cultivar worthy" plants) for just this > one cross, so many cultivars would be ridiculous. It depends. But I would doubt that it is possible to score twelve sufficiently different *and* "cultivar worthy" plants from a single cross (which is not even interspecific). > Perhaps it is best to just use the location data for most and > name a couple that stand out... This is perhaps the worst choice (if the locality names become official-ish). > Any chance to rank the bunch as Sub-Cultivars? Nope. Cultivars do not constitute taxa in any scienific sense so they cannot be ranked. Kind regards Jan ################### From: dave evans Date: Wed, 08 Jan 97 03:17 EST Subject: Re: Re: Re: _Nepenthes_ naming Hello Jan, > Ideally, yes. But the ICNCP allows for naming of *different* clones > by the same cv. name if they share a common reliably distinguishing > feature. Ok, I understand the "distinguishing feature" is supposed to be a physical feature of the plant, but would being the progeny this unnatural cross also count? For this genus, rules being applied to fruit trees might prove restrictive or not applicable. Even the same plant looks different year to year, so "reliably distingiushable" might be hard to get from even the same clone... My N. * wrigliana cv. 'Forgotthenamecauseit'sdarnlate' does tend to have more red in the pitchers than other clones of the same hybrid, but even looking at the pitchers of it the other day, there were quite a number of differences from one leaf to the next. >From time to time, the only distingiushing feature is the name on the label. The deeper color and perhaps wider peristome do show up, but only after a 1/2 year or so in good condtions. > > Is there any way to name the whole > > batch of seed under one name? > > There are several ways. If the plant does not differ sufficiently from > either parent (which is what I would assume in our case), I would > simply call it _Nepenthes rafflesiana_. I'm leaning that way myself. But then again, the parent plants already have some horticultural distinction, and cultivars are a horticultural entity. Hmm... I want to get the rules down, so when I end up in Meryl's friend's place I'll get it right. > > Considering that Meryl<'s friend> could end > > up with hundreds of seedlings (and in the end, perhaps a couple > > dozen plants and couple "cultivar worthy" plants) for just this > > one cross, so many cultivars would be ridiculous. > > It depends. But I would doubt that it is possible to score twelve > sufficiently different *and* "cultivar worthy" plants from a single > cross (which is not even interspecific). I was thinking that a fair number of seedlings would probably expire, leaving a couple dozen (unique because of the parents) plants and couple of possible cultivar worth or none. Would naming most them under one cv. name and naming one or two outstanding clones under other cv. names be allowed? Dave Evans ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 09:53:13 Subject: Re: _Nepenthes_ naming Dear Dave, > > Ideally, yes. But the ICNCP allows for naming of *different* clones > > by the same cv. name if they share a common reliably distinguishing > > feature. > > Ok, I understand the "distinguishing feature" is supposed to be > a physical feature of the plant, but would being the progeny > this unnatural cross also count? No. > For this genus, rules being > applied to fruit trees might prove restrictive or not applicable. That's the crux with almost any rule. In order to be a rule it has to apply generally to the whole range of its definition. > Even the same plant looks different year to year, so "reliably > distingiushable" might be hard to get from even the same clone... So if the offspring of that cross does not even reach beyond this variability then it can simply not be considered distinct. > My N. * wrigliana cv. 'Forgotthenamecauseit'sdarnlate' does tend > to have more red in the pitchers than other clones of the same > hybrid, but even looking at the pitchers of it the other day, there > were quite a number of differences from one leaf to the next. > >From time to time, the only distingiushing feature is the name > on the label. The deeper color and perhaps wider peristome do > show up, but only after a 1/2 year or so in good condtions. A difference in the sense of the ICNCP should be more obvious than that (ideally recognizable even in seedlings). > > > Is there any way to name the whole batch of seed under one > > > name? > > There are several ways. If the plant does not differ > > sufficiently from either parent (which is what I would assume in > > our case), I would simply call it _Nepenthes rafflesiana_. > > > I'm leaning that way myself. But then again, the parent plants > already have some horticultural distinction, and cultivars are a > horticultural entity. The parent plants are not designated cultivars. So why bother with naming their offspring separately if they do not warrant cultivar selection? > I was thinking that a fair number of seedlings would probably > expire, leaving a couple dozen (unique because of the parents) > plants and couple of possible cultivar worth or none. A plant cannot be regarded unique just because of its parents. Otherwise every single individual would have to be named. The latter may be possible formally but it is certainly not desirable. Naming (even of cultivars) should in the first line serve the purpose of identification (i.e. to make one given item to belong to a category originally defined by *another* item), not isolation. It is rather difficult for me to swallow this even for cultivars (which should ideally be only clones of one original individual), but (rather unfortunately) this is what the ICNCP says. > Would naming most them under one cv. name and naming one or two > outstanding clones under other cv. names be allowed? All items to be named as cultivars *must* be "outstanding" inasmuch as they have to have a common distinguishing feature. This feature has to reside in the phenotype (i.e. common parents are *not* sufficient, v.s.). Kind regards Jan ################### From: -Tom- Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:10:08 GMT Subject: Re: Re: ??D.diels. * D. sp. Trans.?? Dave Evans wrote: >The rosetted plants are growing very fast and are already twice >the size of the largest D.dielsiana I've seen. They have grown >out 20-25 leaves while the erect (D.capensis?) plants have grown >out about ten or so leaves. Tom Hayes saw them too, and agrees >they're not the same, BTW. The rosetted plants' lamina bend upward >while the other's bend downward. I think it is simply a matter of D. capensis seed getting mixed into the seed batch or perhaps a plant with seeds on it was too close to the seed tray:) They are DEFINITELY not all the same plant. Take care & keep on growing, -Tom- & Krissy (In PA where we are finally expecting snow tomorrow!) ################### From: Nigel Hurneyman Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:47:03 -0000 Subject: Pink Peltatas I get the impression from some of the contributors that pink is the normal flower colour for D peltata. This wasn't my understanding; I thought white was the norm. A tuberous Drosera fanatical friend of mine swears that as a quick spot, if it doesn't have white flowers it isn't ssp peltata, although some subscribers would not be happy at the number of names he recognises. Lowrie's Vol I records peltata as having white flowers - I suspect the pinkishness of the photo is a quality problem and Lowrie decided to include it anyway because it is a good piccy of the flower structure, despite the wonky colours. BTW, does anyone know where I might obtain material of the Himalayan form, D peltata var lunata? Good Growing, NigelH ################### From: Nigel Hurneyman Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:18:05 -0000 Subject: Hello from James Lavin / Byblis Gigantea Welcome James, you may be able to answer a question I have been unsuccessfully touting around for some time now. At a lecture in plant propagation, the speaker said that if you can get a bit of plant to produce callus material, you have propagation cracked because the callus material can produce everything the plant needs by way of shoots and roots. Byblis Gigantea is a pig to propagate. Seeds are the best way, although it is difficult to pollinate, the seed doesn't seem to keep well and germination rates are very poor without chemical assistants such as Gibberellic Acid. Other documented methods are stem cuttings and root cuttings, both of which require more courage than possessed by many hobbyists. I tried straight leaf cuttings but they all died very quickly, so I decided to try layering. The leaves contain three circular thingies running through them - I severed two of them and pinned the cut into moist peat. For a long time nothing appeared to happen then the leaves started to die back from the cut towards the stem, leaving the leaf ends to survive on their own. When I uncovered the cut region, it was surrounded by white knobbly material. Further investigation revealed that the cuttings had produced long slender roots, unfortunately unsuitable for root cuttings. At that point I thought I had it cracked, but then the cuttings went brown at the tips, and slowly died back to the white knobbly material, which then turned to mush. Why didn't the callus material produce any shoots? Was the lecturer over-generalising? Good luck with your research, Nigel Hurneyman ################### From: Nigel Hurneyman Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:53:13 -0000 Subject: Pronunciation A lot of us western Europeans prefer to soften the botanical names, hence Cephalotus is pronounced Ssephalotus, and the ch in D pulchella is pronounced as in chess. Some even pronounce Chianti as she-anti! We thought it was great when the rules of the Eurovision song contest were changed so that singers had to use the language of the country they represented because it immediately put the Germans and Scandinavians at a substantial disadvantage. The reason we don't win is because we never enter decent songs! NigelH ################### From: Alastair Robinson <100611.1627@CompuServe.COM> Date: 08 Jan 97 13:05:21 EST Subject: I'm off To anyone it might concern, I am off for about two weeks and will not be able to respond to any mail until then for which I apologise. Thanks! Alastair. ################### From: "Greg Long" Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 12:16:20 -0600 Subject: Re: Nitrogen uptake How about a probe that bind to nitrogen and IS measurable by a feasible method? I measure intracellular calcium in bone cells by looking at a flourinated Ca "probe" using NMR. I have never used a nitrogen probe but something like that "might" work. > *SNIP! > I was asked by an ecologist friend how she might measure the nitrogen budget > of a carnivorous pitcher plant. She wants to know how efficiently > nitrogen-containing compounds from the decaying/digesting prey in the pitcher > are absorbed and utilized by the plant. > *SNIP!* > > This was snipped from a missive from a prof at my alma mater; he > suggests that labeled nitrogen is not viable (their NMR is only 80 Mhz), > and that GC-MS would be a bear due to sample workup. > Anybody have any suggested techniques for determining nitrogen > uptake in Sarracenias? > > -AJHicks > Wonk > Socorro, NM Gregory J. Long, Ph.D. Department of Biology Olivet Nazarene University Kankakee, IL 60901 phone: (815) 939-5065 fax: (815) 939-5071 email: glong@olivet.edu ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 20:05:03 Subject: Re: Nitrogen uptake Dear nitrogen-Prof., > This was snipped from a missive from a prof at my alma mater; he > suggests that labeled nitrogen is not viable (their NMR is only 80 Mhz), > and that GC-MS would be a bear due to sample workup. You should look for a group with sufficient NMR power as 15N techniques are the state-of-the-art method to assay N takeup by cps. Of course if only primary absorption is to be measured, 14C or 13C labelling of amino acids should work as well because usually proteins are not digested beyond amino acids outside the plant. But after the first transamination step (to be expected within the plant) you will measure little but artifacts with labelled carbon. For quantification purposes, make sure that no contamination of the pitcher liquid takes place (use sterilized equipment and chemicals, plug the pitcher mouth with e.g. sterile cotton as soon as the bud opens) in order to prevent pre-oral parasitism (especially transamination and denitrification!) by micro-organisms. Kind regards Jan ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 21:42:15 +0100 Subject: Re: Identify this Nepenthes please On 6 Jan 97 at 2:23, SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg wrote: > > I've just uploaded a page with a picture of a Nepenthes on it. This > > was one of several unrooted cuttings which Andreas Wistuba sent me > > about a year ago. I managed to root 4 in total (not bad for a > > beginner, and in the depths of Winter too), but this one is the most > > notable so far, having soon developed these attractive pitchers. > > The picture is not very detailed but it looks as if the lid had an > appendage on the lower surface at its distal end. This would indicate > that you have _N. maxima_ or a hybrid or relative thereof. Thanks for the reply Jan, also to Johannes and Christoph. All three mention N. maxima in their replies, so it's looking fairly promising. I've looked at the drawing of a lower pitcher in Slack's book, and there is some similarity although mine only has upper pitchers. I had to look up 'distal' to check what Jan was saying: "remote from place of attachment", and yes, there is a downward pointing spike at this end of the lid, also a glandular projection at the other end. There is lots of nectar on the pitcher - on this second projection, on the peristome, and in droplets on the outside of the pitcher. I'm sure I could manage a better photo, but for now, the old one is still at http://www.brunt.demon.co.uk/cp/nepenthes.html Johannes also mentions N. fusca: Slack has a line drawing again quite like mine, but the leaf on the drawing isn't similar (mine are oval, with the leaf edges meeting the tendril at right-angles, rather than tapering into it); and N. ovata which I haven't got a drawing of. -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 20:29:23 Subject: far off topic pronunciation Dear Nigel, > We thought it was great when the rules of the Eurovision > song contest were changed so that singers had to use the language of > the country they represented because it immediately put the Germans > and Scandinavians at a substantial disadvantage. The reason we don't > win is because we never enter decent songs! The reason Germany was excluded from the contest was IMHO not our possibly awful language but the consistently poor quality of the songs submitted (last time we participated, we left the stage with a single point from Cyprus if I remember well). The one German song that ever won the contest ("Ein bisschen Frieden", a little bit of peace) was probably a mistake by the jury. Nevertheless, the contest is great fun ("Autriche... dix points") and it's a pity that our TV companies did not broadcast it the last time (maybe Germans are indeed bad loosers). Kind regards Jan ################### From: lcochran@midway.uchicago.edu (Liane Cochran-Stafira) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 16:32:19 -0600 (CST) Subject: home cell stain At 01:23 AM 1/4/97 -0800, you wrote: >Today I flattened a bladderwort bladder between a cover slip and a slide >to view it under a microscope at home. Unfortunately, the cells >were rather difficult to see. Does anyone know of something >around the house or readily available that can be used as a stain for >cells? >Thanks, >--Zachary-- > >--------------------------------------------------------- >Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >--------------------------------------------------------- Hi Zachary, An easy way to get stains such as malachite green (methylene blue also, I think) is to check out your local pet shop. Many of the medications used to treat parasitic diseases of tropical fish are formulations of these dyes, and they are pretty inexpensive. Again, iodine is an excellent first choice. It will help to outline the cells and will turn dark wherever starch is located, but it won't be very helpful for visualizing cellular organelles. You may be able to faintly see the nucleus if you play with the light and look very carefully. Hope this helps, Liane Cochran-Stafira Dept. of Ecology and Evolution The University of Chicago 1101 East 57th Street Chicago, Illinois 60637-5415 phone: 773-702-1930 fax: 773-702-9740 e-mail: lcochran@midway.uchicago.edu ################### From: dave evans Date: Wed, 08 Jan 97 18:32 EST Subject: Re: Re: _Nepenthes_ naming Hi Jan, > > My N. * wrigliana cv. 'Forgotthenamecauseit'sdarnlate' does tend > > to have more red in the pitchers than other clones of the same > > hybrid, but even looking at the pitchers of it the other day, there > > were quite a number of differences from one leaf to the next. > > >From time to time, the only distingiushing feature is the name > > on the label. The deeper color and perhaps wider peristome do > > show up, but only after a 1/2 year or so in good condtions. > > A difference in the sense of the ICNCP should be more obvious than > that (ideally recognizable even in seedlings). So then, how did Bruce Bednar name N. * wrigliana cv. 'Kosobe'? Can (should) cultivars even be used for this polymorphic genus? > The parent plants are not designated cultivars. So why bother with > naming their offspring separately if they do not warrant cultivar > selection? > A plant cannot be regarded unique just because of its parents. This is the problem I'm having with naming them as cultivars. So should Meryl's friend (Or I, in the future) name his plants as cultivars or not? I have seedlings of N.ventricosa * N.burkei (sp?). Since many people consider them the *same* species, what do I have? BTW, I have seen no *consistant* difference with regards to the angles of the lids between the few clones of N.ventricosa and the single N.burkei I have. Instead, the pitchers of the N.burkei tend to be slightly larger and are a uniform yellow- green color. The peristome is bright red and there are red streaks on the lid. The pitchers on N.ventricosa are two toned (like Fred Flintstone's face), there is a distinct line where the color changes. I can see this same line in the N.burkei (and most Nepenthes), but there's no change in color. Are these really a pair of subspecies to each other? Dave Evans ################### From: Frank Udovicic Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 10:38:21 +1000 Subject: Re: Nitrogen uptake AJ Hicks wrote... > *SNIP! > I was asked by an ecologist friend how she might measure the nitrogen budget > of a carnivorous pitcher plant. She wants to know how efficiently > nitrogen-containing compounds from the decaying/digesting prey in the pitcher > are absorbed and utilized by the plant. > *SNIP!* Dear Aaron Here are a couple of references dealing with Nitrogen uptake in Droseras that may be helpful.... *E.-D. Schulze, G. Gebauer, W. Schulze, and J.S. Pate (1991). The utilization of nitrogen from insect capture by different growth forms of _Drosera_ from Southwest Australia. Oecologia 87: 240-246. In this study the 15N/14N natural isotope composition of prey, prey-free plants, and plants with prey was compared to get estimates of N nutrition. *K.W. Dixon, J.S. Pate and W.J.Bailey (1980). Nitrogen Nutrition of the Tuberous Sundew _Drosera erythrorhiza_ Lindl. with Special Reference to Catch of Arthropod Fauna by its Glandular Leaves. Australian Journal of Botany 28: 283-297. This paper might be more relevant for your needs? They fed 15N-labelled flies (yeast was raised on a growth medium with (15NH4)2SO4 as the labelled N source, then the _Drosophila_ were raised on an agar medium containing the 15N-labelled yeast) to the leaf rosettes of the Droseras and traced the 15N over two subsequent seasons of growth so they could trace the 15N in successive generations of tubers. Arginine of the tubers was labelled with 15N. 15N-enrichment was assayed by optical emission spectrometry (Lewis and Pate, 1973, J. Exp. Bot. 24: 596-606.) I hope this is helpful, good luck! Frank. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Dr Frank Udovicic Australian National Herbarium Email: F.Udovicic@pi.csiro.au CSIRO Plant Industry Phone: +61 (0)6 246 5177 GPO Box 1600, Canberra Fax: +61 (0)6 246 5249 ACT 2601 AUSTRALIA http://rubens.its.unimelb.edu.au/~franku/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ################### From: robert.pogson@mwcs.mb.ca (ROBERT POGSON) Date: Wed, 08 Jan 97 18:54:00 -0600 Subject: Re: Nitrogen uptake A physicist would do it one of two ways:1)assay the available nitrogen in the environment over time or 2)assay the nitrogen in the plants as a function of time. I was tangentially involved in 2) a while back as a means to measure protein in grain. There is a chemical procedure requiring destruction and conversion to ammonia followed by titration. Being physicists, we wanted instant gratification so we bombarded living matter with 30 Mev protons making some of the N14 into N13 and watching it decay. This was non-destructive for seeds; I don't think we tried plants. A gadget was built with a conveyor belt that would give accurate results in a few minutes and could do hundreds of tests in rapid succession. An infrared technique was eventually installed in grain handling facilities in Canada. I guess a desktop machine was more handy than a 60 ton cyclotron ;-). ... nfx v2.8 [C0000] Bureaucracy: relic from past civilizations. Purpose:unkn ################### From: TEETH32@aol.com Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 21:43:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: N. burbidgeae Hello everyone, I wanted to know if anyone has N. burbidgeae for sale. I have been looking for this species for a while. Thanks for all your help. Darren ################### From: dave evans Date: Wed, 08 Jan 97 22:01 EST Subject: Re: Re: N. burbidgeae > From: TEETH32@AOL.COM > > Hello everyone, I wanted to know if anyone has N. burbidgeae for > sale. I have been looking for this species for a while. Ha! Who hasn't? I personally know two people who are growing that one. And they're not selling either. One of the growers happens to be killing his plants, with heat I think. I just wish he'd let me have one so I can kill it too. 8-Q) If you find out where to get some (ethically/legally), please let me know too. Dave E ################### From: Rob Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 17:03:00 +1100 Subject: Re: Pink Peltatas Nigel Hurneyman wrote: > >I get the impression from some of the contributors that pink is the >normal flower colour for D peltata. This wasn't my understanding; >I thought white was the norm. A tuberous Drosera fanatical friend >of mine swears that as a quick spot, if it doesn't have white flowers >it isn't ssp peltata, although some subscribers would not be happy >at the number of names he recognises. Lowrie's Vol I records >peltata as having white flowers - I suspect the pinkishness of the >photo is a quality problem and Lowrie decided to include it anyway >because it is a good piccy of the flower structure, despite the wonky >colours. I have never seen a pink flowered D peltata ssp peltata although some plants show a pinkish hue on the unopened and spent flowers. They always open white. I would be surprised if a pink flowered form doesn't exist though because there is much diversity in the species. Pink flowered D. peltata ssp auriculata do exist. Certainly the white flowered forms are more common, but they seem to exhibit the pink hues on unopened and spent flowers more frequently than ssp peltata. >BTW, does anyone know where I might obtain material of the >Himalayan form, D peltata var lunata? Sorry, no idea. I wasn't aware that D. peltata existed outside of Australasia. Regards to all, Rob Brisler Melbourne, Vic., Australia ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 08:32:49 Subject: Re: _Nepenthes_ naming Dear Dave & al., > > A difference in the sense of the ICNCP should be more obvious than > > that (ideally recognizable even in seedlings). > > So then, how did Bruce Bednar name N. * wrigliana cv. 'Kosobe'? Did he do so? I have never seen any text in which the cultivar has been registered. Have you? BTW, Phill Mann has sent me a list of _Nepenthes_ names that included many entries which I have never seen before. Has anyone ever read anything on one (or several) of the following names used as epithets of _Nepenthes_? If so, please communicate the complete reference (author, publication, year, page number (the very number on which the very name appears for the *first* time in each single case, please!)) to me. adTNXvance! Adorable Fuso alata f. variegata Asahi Attractive Fuso Bario Bastido Bella benkei benkei inversa Bizen carunculosa David Parkyn Dreamy Yamamoto East Evergaldes gracillata Grey Mist Hideki Hirakata Idyllic Koto J & B Jeanie Babe Kei Kihachijo Kishino Kiso Koiwado Kyoko Londt Mekata Menarabe Mercury Midori Minami Triumph Miyo Nago Nakaccho Nanbara Niwa Noboriryu Okazaki Okuyama pangulubauensis Petra Pisacho Rapa Raven ryaniana Sachiko Sakura Sanyo Saturn Shamenbana Showa Snazz Chas spaxima Supari Tametomo tinkerei Trina ventrillima Venus wrigleyana cv. 'Kosobe' Yakkome If no reference can be traced, the names are no more than nomina nuda (author: Phill Mann in sched., 1996). > Can (should) cultivars even be used for this polymorphic genus? Cultivar names can be used in any taxonomic context because they do not bear any taxonomic significance. If they should be applied is to be decided by the respective horticulturist/author. > > The parent plants are not designated cultivars. So why bother with > > naming their offspring separately if they do not warrant cultivar > > selection? > > A plant cannot be regarded unique just because of its parents. > > This is the problem I'm having with naming them as cultivars. > So should Meryl's friend (Or I, in the future) name his plants as > cultivars or not? If they do not deserve it then they should not be named oter than _N. rafflesiana_. > I have seedlings of N.ventricosa * N.burkei (sp?). Since many > people consider them the *same* species, what do I have? Taxonomic problems. > BTW, > I have seen no *consistant* difference with regards to the > angles of the lids between the few clones of N.ventricosa and > the single N.burkei I have. Instead, the pitchers of the > N.burkei tend to be slightly larger and are a uniform yellow- > green color. The peristome is bright red and there are red > streaks on the lid. The pitchers on N.ventricosa are two toned > (like Fred Flintstone's face), there is a distinct line where > the color changes. I can see this same line in the N.burkei > (and most Nepenthes), but there's no change in color. Are these > really a pair of subspecies to each other? The matter is not settled yet. It seems that _N. ventricosa_ is a fairly widespread species with rather constant characteristics. _N. burkei_ was collected only very rarely, and perhaps the true thing (type specimen and clonal offspring) was collected only once. The (most) plants in cultivation may be extreme forms of _N. ventricosa_ (which could account for the difficulties many people have in telling the two apart). The type specimen differs from _N. ventricosa_ in having less ventricose and more tubulose pitchers with an oblique rather than horizontal peristome. It may be the product of introgression by _N. ventricosa_ into some other species. However, I do not know if the two "parent" species co-occur at the type locality. For the time being, I would keep _N. burkei_ and _N. ventricosa_ apart. So if one parent was correctly identified _N. burkei_ the seedlings you have can be regarded as hybrids (they could be given an own scientific or cultivar name but the bastard formula is entirely sufficient). Kind regards Jan ################### From: Russell Elliott Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 21:16:34 -0800 Subject: Red Spider mite? Hi everyone, I was looking at my collection today, and to my horror, a good 50% of my VFTS were looking very sickly. Looking at them closely, most of the new traps that were emerging were dead, along with most of the old leaves. To be honest, I first noticed that they appeared to have more dead leaves than normal about three weeks ago. Anyway, I *think* the problem is red spider mite. The leaves appear to have had their tissue "gouged" out (I'm only talking about cuts about 1mm in length) and they appear flecked with dead patches. I have also noticed tiny red dots on the plants. Since I can't find my hand lens, I cant quite make out what exactly these are. I was wondering if anyone knew of any biological or environmental control that is effective on them. I don't want to use Rogor, as that chemical badly set back my entire Sarracenia collection, and it is only now that they are just about recovered. Thanks, Russell Elliott -- *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ! Russell Elliott ! ! Seed Bank Director, ! ! Australian Carnivorous Plant Society ! ! mailto:relliott@geocities.com ! ! mailto:elliott@nexus.edu.au ! *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ################### From: "Doug and Meryl Fraser" Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 21:41:47 +0000 Subject: Re: nepenthes naming Hi everyone, I would just like to thank Alastair, Jan and Dave for their replies to my nepenthes queries. With reference to the N. rafflesiana cross previously mentioned the resulting seedlings will still prefer lowland nepenthes conditions. I have about fifty N. veitchii seedlings which are the result of a cross between a lowland female veitchii and a highland veitchii male. It would certainly be beneficial for other people who are trying to grow these seedlings to be aware that there could be variations, as to cold sensitivity, among the resulting offspring. I think that there is certainly a need for such interspecies crosses to be identified and labelled, or named, so that any grower will have a chance of success with it. Meryl ################### From: Heggood@aol.com Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 08:36:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: RO As a person with a strong curiosity about how things work, I have been intrigued by the term 'Reverse Osmosis'. As I recall, osmosis is the process by which two liquids separated by a semi- permeable membrane either give up or acquire fluid from/to the other depending on the concentration of impurities in solution. This is a natural phenomen which occurs in nature. How is the process reversed and in doing so result in water free of contaniments? Thanks in avance to someone who has the answer. -steve- ################### From: Perry Malouf Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 09:14:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Reverse Osmosis Steve wrote: > As a person with a strong curiosity about how things work, > I have been intrigued by the term 'Reverse Osmosis'... In order to describe reverse osmosis, I should first describe an example of osmosis. Consider a beaker filled with pure water. Take a sausage skin (selectively permeable membrane), fill it with brine and seal both ends. Put the brine-filled sausage skin in the beaker of water. After some time, you will notice that the sausage skin begins to balloon so that the skin becomes tight. This is because water diffuses through the skin into the brine. Diffusion is driven by concentration gradients, in this case there is a higher concentration of water outside the skin as compared to inside the skin. The membrane permits water to go across, but not NaCl. So water diffuses across the membrane in an attempt to lower the brine (NaCl) concentration. The process continues and pressure builds up in the sausage skin because the volume of water in the skin is increasing. The pressure tends to act against the diffusion of water from outside the skin to inside. This pressure is known as osmotic pressure. Eventually an equilibrium is reached where the pressure inside the sausage skin stops the net diffusion of water across the membrane. In other words, the diffusion rate of water from outside to inside is equal to the rate from inside to outside. Now we move to reverse osmosis. Imagine that I squeeze one end of the sausage skin with my hand, thus increasing the pressure inside. Whereas before we had an equilibrium where the net diffusion of water across the membrane was zero, now the increased pressure inside the skin acts to increase the rate of diffusion from inside the skin to outside. So now there is a net diffusion of water out of the sausage skin. With water now diffusing out of the sausage skin, the concentration of brine increases and the volume of pure water outside the skin increases. We are purifying water! This continues as long as adequate pressure is maintained inside the sausage skin. With reverse osmosis water purifiers, a selectively permeable membrane is used. Water is forced against this membrane at high pressure, whereas water on the other side of the membrane is at a low (ambient) pressure. As in the example above, water molecules diffuse across the membrane leaving the contaminants (salts and others) behind. Regards, Perry Malouf ################### From: TEETH32@aol.com Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 09:50:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Jordan Ullman Does anyone know the e-mail address of Jordan Ullman? The address that I have to contact him about cp's is incorrect. What I have listed is"jullman@sms.k12.vt.us" Thanks for your help Darren ################### From: "John H. Phillips III" Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 08:10:52 +0800 Subject: Re: Red Spider mite? At 01:49 AM 1/9/97 -0800, you wrote: > I was wondering if anyone knew of any biological or environmental >control that is effective on them. I don't want to use Rogor, as >that chemical badly set back my entire Sarracenia collection, and it >is only now that they are just about recovered. > > >Thanks, > > >Russell Elliott -- Russell, I plant mine with the soil about 1-1 1/2 inches from the top of the pot. This provides a little more humidity and I can flood the plants when I water them which in turn controls the spider mites. You can also spray them with water, but if/when an infestation turns really bad, Safers insecticidal soap works very well. I use the concentration recommended for vegetables, but a more dilute solution will work just as well. Or add a drop of liquid dishwashing soap to a quart of water and spray with this. Use sparingly, and wash out the soil with pure water. Good luck, John H. Phillips III e-mail:phillips@library.ucsf.edu Interlibrary Loan Rm 202 Health Sciences Library University of California 530 Parnassus Ave San Francisco, CA 94143-0840 PH: (415) 476-8383 FAX: (415) 476-7940 ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 11:31:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Re: _Nepenthes_ naming SNIP > > A difference in the sense of the ICNCP should be more obvious than > > that (ideally recognizable even in seedlings). > > > So then, how did Bruce Bednar name N. * wrigliana cv. 'Kosobe'? > Can (should) cultivars even be used for this polymorphic genus? Not to short Bruce, but I am fairly sure he was not responsible for N. wrigliana 'kosobe'. I obtained 'kosobe' in the mid 70's (still have it) and was told it was developed in Japan and named for a Japanese city. Sorry I don't remember the source, maybe the old World Insectivorous Plants - who was that, Bob Hanaran? > > The parent plants are not designated cultivars. So why bother with > > naming their offspring separately if they do not warrant cultivar > > selection? > > A plant cannot be regarded unique just because of its parents. > > This is the problem I'm having with naming them as cultivars. > So should Meryl's friend (Or I, in the future) name his plants as > cultivars or not? As far as cultivars go, I seem to recall the story that a Japanese grower produced a hybrid and out of all of the resulting seedlings identified three or four distinct patterns in pitcher characteristics. He then provided cultivar names to each of the "unique" group of plants. Given the complex Nepenthes crosses, it would seem to me that in any batch of seedlings the chances are that only one or two (if that many) would have unique, desirable characteristics worthy of naming. More or less the approach Mellichamp uses for his Sarr. hybrids. Along the same lines, if you check the parentage of several of the old hybrids, N. wrigliana, N. coccinea, N. paradisea, -shoot I know there are one or two others, maybe one of the Koto's that have flooded the scene- I believe they all have the same parents. I don't recall if it is three or four parents, mirabilis, raff., ampullaria, and maybe gracilis? - I guess I should check Jan's list to know for sure! :) N coccinea and N.paradisea look absolutely identical to me except for pitcher size (may be growing conditions), while wrigliana kosobe is distinct in both the width and angle of the peristome and the shape of the pitcher. Coloration is identical for all three. And as a question for the taxonomists, when the parentage is the same, as described above, what is the difference between naming as a hybrid and naming as a cultivar? It appears that in practice, naming a hybrid you have created is equivalant to providing a cultivar name, although these hybrid names are not treated as cultivar names. Is the difference the form of the published description? If I cross mirabilis, raff. and amp. and whatever else is in the mix, I would assume I am not producing N. wrig., paradisea, or coccinea, but it seems likely that the resulting mix will produce a hybrid largely indistinguishable from them. Tom in Fl P.S. Jan I read your reply and I do not recall a specific citation for N. wrig. kosobe; unless you count my early correspondence with other growers in the seventies! :) ################### From: sfarrington@ridgway.mobot.org Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 11:31:55 +0000 Subject: Hello Hello, My name is Susan Farrington and I am a new subscriber. I am a new horticulturist at the Missouri Botanical Garden, in charge of the Temperate House, a conservatory that exhibits plants from temperate regions around the world, including a collection of Mediterranean plants. It also includes a carniverous bog, featuring quite a few species of Drosera, Sarracenia and Pinguicula, as well as Venus fly traps for the kids to play with (we rotate them frequently, trying to keep them from getting over played with!) As you can imagine, it's a popular exhibit! I have experience growing some cp's at home (all of the above genuses), though I still have plenty to learn! Currently, my priority is to identify the plants we have in our collection: a helpful volunteer or intern (before my time) removed many of our tags! Aargh! I am thinking of introducing some Darlingtonia californica to our collection at work. I know they will hate our summers (very hot and humid), but I'm hoping to keep them potted so that I can rotate them to the greenhouse during the summer, where cooling systems can keep them at least at a moderate temperature. In the fall, winter and spring I would display them in the Temperate House: nights 40 to 42 farenheit, daytimes 50 to 60 farenheit. Would this work? Where could I get some Darlingtonia to try? Thanks for any help... I've enjoyed reading this discussion group very much so far. Susan Farrington Missouri Botanical Garden ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 18:46:52 Subject: Re: nepenthes naming Dear Meryl, > I think that there is certainly a need > for such interspecies crosses to be identified and labelled, or > named, so that any grower will have a chance of success with it. In any event. This is one of the very purposes of cultivar selection. If the "recognizable distinction" is tolerance to certain temperature (etc.) conditions which other plants of comparable provenience/parentage do not tolerate, it would certainly qualify the respective plant for cultivar selection. This is of course not the normal situation in plants considered specialists items like _Nepenthes_ but it has naturally a great significance e.g. in the vegetable scene. Kind regards Jan ################### From: dave evans Date: Thu, 09 Jan 97 17:14 EST Subject: No 'Kosobe'? Hello Jan, This might not come through, but.... (these are a couple clips from Jan's CP list) N: [Nepenthes * ' Fabulous Koto ' {Hort.Bot.Kyoto}] P: in sched. (1979) S: =[[Nepenthes khasiana {Hook.f.}] * [Nepenthes thorelii {Lecomte}]] B: KAWASE N: [Nepenthes * ' Facetious Koto ' {Hort.Bot.Kyoto}] P: in sched. (1979) S: =[[Nepenthes thorelii {Lecomte}] * [[Nepenthes thorelii {Lecomte}] * [[Nepenthes rafflesiana {Jack}] * [Nepenthes ampullaria {Jack}]]]] B: KAWASE N: [Nepenthes * ' Facile Koto ' {Hort.Bot.Kyoto ex Kawase}] P: J.Insectiv.Pl.Soc.(Japan) 38:57 (1987) S: =[[[Nepenthes sanguinea {Lindl.}] * [Nepenthes khasiana {Hook.f.}]] * [Nepenthes thorelii {Lecomte}]] B: KAWASE This is to show that the 'Koto' group is *not* from the same parents. Though some *might* be. I never payed the 'Koto's much mind... N: [Nepenthes ' Kosobe ' {Hort. ex Mellichamp}]nom.nud. P: Carniv.Pl.Newsl.8:17 (1979) S: =[Nepenthes alata {Blanco}] N: [Nepenthes * ' Kosobe ' {Hort. ex Hort.Bednar}] P: in sched. (1993) S: =[[Nepenthes mirabilis {(Lour.) Druce}] * [[Nepenthes rafflesiana {Jack}] * [Nepenthes ampullaria {Jack}]]] Jan, this on your list. Who's name is that? Aren't all crosses of this type N. * wrigliana (or the name which came first, if any)? At least that" wrigliana" name is much older than the cultivar name from 1993... Confused, Dave Evans ################### From: dave evans Date: Thu, 09 Jan 97 18:08 EST Subject: Re: Re: Re: _Nepenthes_ naming > > So then, how did Bruce Bednar name N. * wrigliana cv. 'Kosobe'? > > Can (should) cultivars even be used for this polymorphic genus? > > > Not to short Bruce, but I am fairly sure he was not responsible for > N. wrigliana 'kosobe'. I obtained 'kosobe' in the mid 70's (still > have it) and > was told it was developed in Japan and named for a Japanese city. > Sorry I don't remember the source, maybe the old World > Insectivorous Plants - who was > that, Bob Hanaran? By looking at Jan's list, it seems to have been made twice, but I am not sure. > Given the complex Nepenthes crosses, it would seem to me that in > any batch of > seedlings the chances are that only one or two (if that many) would > have unique, desirable characteristics worthy of naming. More or > less the approach > Mellichamp uses for his Sarr. hybrids. Yes, I'm planning on naming one or two new S.flava, if they continue to be so outstanding. One or two out of several hundred are very different. > Along the same lines, if you check the parentage of several of the old hybrids, > N. wrigliana, N. coccinea, N. paradisea, -shoot I know there are one or two > others, maybe one of the Koto's that have flooded the scene- I believe they > all have the same parents. I don't recall if it is three or four parents, > mirabilis, raff., ampullaria, and maybe gracilis? - I guess I should check > Jan's list to know for sure! :) For wrigliana, a female N.mirablis was used. For N.* coccinea, a female N.* hookeriana was used. Both crosses are half N.mirablis and half N. * hookeriana. My N.* coccinea favors it's N.raff. sapline much more than both N.wrigliana (which are nearly indentical) for the pitchers while the texture of the leaves (thick and waxy) on the N.*wrig. favors the raff. and the leaves on N.coccinea very very similar to N.mirablis. Do other's find things different from this? > N coccinea and N.paradisea look absolutely identical to me except for pitcher > size (may be growing conditions), while wrigliana kosobe is distinct in both > the width and angle of the peristome and the shape of the pitcher. Coloration > is identical for all three. The coloration between my (perhaps wrongly labled?) N.* coccinea and N.* wrig. is different as the N.cocc. has quite a bit of white in it while neither N.* wrig. has no white. (Didn't you hear? Double negatives are now part of English.) > If I cross mirabilis, raff. and amp. and whatever else is in the mix, I would > assume I am not producing N. wrig., paradisea, or coccinea, but it seems likely > that the resulting mix will produce a hybrid largely indistinguishable from > them. Well, I've always wanted to see what N.ampullaria * (N. raff. * N.mirablis) would look like. I searched Jan's list for it, but never found this. I think most these N.amp. hybrids actually used N.* hookeriana taken from the wild so people keep on making the same crosses with it and not using N.amp. directly. Has any one flowered N.ampullaria? I asked indirectly before but I'm not sure if there was a response. Also, all the hybrids involving N.amp as a parent appear to be taken from the wild (ie. N.* tricocarpa, N.amp. * N.mirablis, ect.) also. Dave Evans ################### From: "Phil Semanchuk" pj@glaxowellcome.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 97 00:20:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Red Spider mite? > I was wondering if anyone knew of any biological or > environmental control that is effective on them. I > don't want to use Rogor, as that chemical badly set > back my entire Sarracenia collection, and it is only > now that they are just about recovered. You could try submerging the plants in rainwater for a few days. I've not tried this myself but I've seen it mentioned on this list as a method of controlling other pests. Phil ################### From: Michal Dworaczek Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 17:23:23 -0600 Subject: droseras Can anyone tell me if it is ok to give little Droseras some plant food - fertilizer? ################### From: "Christoph A. Belanger" <105601.512@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 21:11:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Re: _Nepenthes_ naming Dave you wrote: <> Dave, I always thought the opposite. But then I was told that the two toned plant is just a juvenile form of N. ventricosa. This is evident on my own male vent. Tow pitchers ago it was two towned, now it is porcelain green, with a bright red peristome. Just my 2c Christoph ################### From: -Tom- Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 02:06:01 GMT Subject: Re: droseras At 04:28 PM 1/9/97 -0800, you wrote: >Can anyone tell me if it is ok to give little Droseras some plant food - >fertilizer? It is easier to give them some fish food (flakes work fine or you can use daphnia, or any other type for that matter. I give a lot of my CP fish food and they love it. Plus it isn't as easy to over do it and kill them! If they are really small just use baby fish food. Take care & keep on growing, -Tom- ################### From: dave evans Date: Thu, 09 Jan 97 21:35 EST Subject: Re: Re: Re: _Nepenthes_ naming > Dave, I always thought the opposite. But then I was told that the > two toned plant is just a juvenile form of N. ventricosa. This is > evident on my own male vent. Tow pitchers ago it was two towned, > now it is porcelain green, with a bright red peristome. Hi Christoph, This theory about the two toned pitchers being the juvenile/ lower pitchers could be right. The N.burkei is the cutting I received which flowered soon after rooting, so it is in it's upper growth. If true, your plant may flower soon! I did see a huge plant (a couple feet across) of N.ventricosa at Long Wood Gardens with the two tones, but it may have still been in low growth... Could this be the only way to tell in this species? Dave Evans ################### From: ">JewelR@aol.com Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 22:48:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: "Dandylions" I refered the reference to "dandylions" to Dr. Voss writer of Michigan Flora Vol. !, II, & III just coming off the presses this week. >Edward G. Voss wrote: > > I do not want to expend much time elaborating on the strange > memo you received regarding "dandylions." I concur in your reaction! > Everybody knows that dandelions are apomictic, although almost no one > would accept the particular definition of apomixis stated in the memo. > In the narrow definition, apomixis is reproduction by seed without > fertilization; the result is, indeed, as stated: genetic identity with > the parent plant. In a broader sense, apomixis is any non-sexual > reproduction that tends to replace sexual reproduction and could well > include such a phenomenon as origin in a vegetative cell. You can find > a multitude of definitions in the literature. However, any apomict > would be ultimately derived, would it not, from some sexual ancestor? > Whether that derivation occurred on this continent after migration here > or on another before migration might have some bearing on whether to > consider a given population native or not in an area. But apomicts and > dandelions have been studied intensively, especially by European > botanists, for many, many years, and the whole mess is extraordinarily > complex (see references under Taraxacum on p. 353 of my new third > volume). I would not want to place any credence whatsoever in your memo > without knowing WHOSE "evidence shows" and HOW one could conclude > anything therefrom regarding nativity. If "This" also holds for other > weeds, what is the antecedent of the pronoun "This"? Is the writer > trying to say that other weeds are apomictic? Some are, some aren't. > Or that others have been shown to be distinct from European relatives? > Some are and some aren't, but genetic distinctness does not necessarily > mean species distinctness. (White- and red-flowered plants are > genetically distinct, but so what?). Apomixis, in one or another form, > permits maintenance of a trivial genetic difference throughout a number > of "individuals" which in fact are hardly to be considered different > individuals--any more than aspen stems in a clone are different. The > big question is, bluntly, SO WHAT? In short, I personally would pay no > attention so so poorly documented an assertion nor beginb to list our > common weeds as indigenous! Of course, another interpretation of what's > behind this might be that the writer is confusing the accepted native > dandelion species of far-northern parts of North America with the > presumably introduced weedy species of more temperate latitudes. > --Ed Voss ################### From: Fernando Rivadavia Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 16:05:46 +0900 (JST) Subject: Sarracenia phylogeny To all, I remeber reading here a few weeks back about an article on the phylogeny of Sarracenia. Does anyone remember that reference? Thankx, Fernando Rivadavia Tokyo, Japan P.S. Jan, about the CPs in Costa Rica, I would imagine D.brevifolia and/or D.panamensis would also be possible candidates for native CPs. Not to mention G.filiformis. If I remember well, this species has been collected as far N as Belize. ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 09:12:55 Subject: Re: No 'Kosobe'? Dear Dave, > N: [Nepenthes ' Kosobe ' {Hort. ex Mellichamp}]nom.nud. > P: Carniv.Pl.Newsl.8:17 (1979) > S: =[Nepenthes alata {Blanco}] > > N: [Nepenthes * ' Kosobe ' {Hort. ex Hort.Bednar}] > P: in sched. (1993) > S: =[[Nepenthes mirabilis {(Lour.) Druce}] * [[Nepenthes rafflesiana {Jack}] * > [Nepenthes ampullaria {Jack}]]] > > Jan, this on your list. Yes, I know. > Who's name is that? This is exactly the question. Neither list entry refers to a proper publication. The first is a nomen nudum (without description, only synonym statement), the second is from informal communication (in schedis, i.e. on herbarium or garden plant lables). > Aren't all crosses of this type N. * wrigliana Obviously the first is not even a cross at all. > (or the name which came first, if any)? The first name used for the taxon (i.e. not specific cultivars) was apparently N. * stewartii (1879). > At least that" wrigliana" name is much older than the cultivar name > from 1993... Yes, N. * wrigleyana is from 1882. Kind regards Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 09:24:06 Subject: Re: taxa vs. cvs. (was: _Nepenthes_ naming) Dear Tom & al., > And as a question for the taxonomists, when the parentage is the > same, as described above, what is the difference between naming as > a hybrid and naming > as a cultivar? The distinction is not between hybrids and cultivars but either between hybrids and species or between taxa and cultivars. I think the difference between hybrids and species is fairly obvious (theoretically, at least). Taxa are in the first line items of interest to biologists (especially taxonomists). They (i.e. taxa) are genetically diverse populations of hopefully monophyletic origin (e.g. the family _Nepenthaceae_ or the species _Drosera rotundifolia_). Cultivars are genetically +/- homogeneous offspring from ideally a single cultivated individual selected by a human being as more valuable than other such creatures. These (cultivars) are in the first line of interest to horticulturists and in some cases to people selling plants commercially (I must confess that I do not know if something like cultivars exists in animal pets, however the ICNCP refers to plants only). There are two independent sets of rules (codes) how to name either taxa (ICBN) or cultivars (ICNCP). While there are many different ranks (family, genus, species) for taxa, cultivars are all of equal rank. It depends on the written published intention of the author who proposed a name first (and on some formal criteria governed by the respective rules) whether this name is a (scientific) taxon name or a (horticultural) cultivar name. > It appears that in practice, naming a hybrid you have created > is equivalant to providing a cultivar name, A hybrid can be named as a taxon (including all individuals of equal parentage irrespective of direction or repetition) or one clone from several hybrids of the same parentage may be selected as a cultivar. The two have to be treated like non-hybrid taxa in the naming procedure. > although these hybrid names are not treated as cultivar names. Again, hybrid names may either be scientific or horticultural. It depends on what you *intend*. > Is the difference the form of the published description? Yes. The difference is also reflected in the form of the respective descriptions (because different rules have to be followed in order to serve the different purposes of the name). > If I cross mirabilis, raff. and amp. and whatever else is in the mix, I would > assume I am not producing N. wrig., paradisea, or coccinea, but it seems likely > that the resulting mix will produce a hybrid largely indistinguishable from > them. Not entirely. N. * stewartii (Moore, 1879) is the first published scientific name for all of them (It was published before 1935 with a Latin suffix and is therefore -even without type and Latin protologue- a taxon name according to the ICBN). So the taxon comprising all the hybrids of the same or similar parentage will have to be called N. * stewartii (unless someone finds out that this name is illegitimate). All scientific names for the same hybrid published later are taxonomic synonyms of N. * stewartii. The names you mentioned may be used as cultivar names belonging to the taxon N. * stewartii because they were published before the deadline after which such (Latin, not capitalized, not included in single quotes, not preceded by "cv.") epithets were forbidden by the ICNCP. Kind regards Jan ################### From: isenberg@eva.cs.Uni-Magdeburg.DE (Tobias Isenberg) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 09:32:02 +0100 (MET) Subject: Florida Hello all, I'm planing to spend two weeks of March in Florida together with some friends. They aren't CP enthusiasts but probably I can get some of them to visit interesting CP places together with me. Can anyone of you please give me some suggestions of what to visit. Which plants I can find there (Pitcher Plants, Sundews, Bladderworts, ...) and where? Special National Parks? Any help is appreciated. Regards, Tobias -- Tobias Isenberg There are only two real truthes: isenberg@sunpool.cs.uni-magdeburg.de 1. Computer are useful for men. http://www.cs.uni-magdeburg.de/~isenberg 2. Earth is a disk. ################### From: Fernando Rivadavia Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 18:00:54 +0900 (JST) Subject: Literature help To all, Does anyone have access to a "Rev.Arg.Agron."? I believe that's "Revista Argentina Agronomica". I'm looking for info about an article on Drosera of Argentina which came out in this magazine on pages 231-239 of issue number 5. The author is G.Dawson and it's from 1938. If anybody could send me a copy, I'd be very thankful. Or else just look up for me what the author says about D.communis and D.brevifolia collections. I've read that he wrote that both species are present in NW Argentina, but believe this was a mistranslation and that the correct is NE Argentina. Could anyone checkthis for me? Thanks in advance, Fernando Rivadavia Tokyo, Japan ################### From: j.dewitte@t-online.de (Jean-Pierre Witte) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 97 10:05 +0100 Subject: burbidgea I have some burbidgea growing in tissue (from seed). The bad news is that they have the growth rate of lowii or less and after 3/4 years they are still less than 1 cm which means two very small pitchers. In all honesty I do not foresee to take anything out before 3rd quarter of 97, but when I do I will post a message. Take care, John jdewitte@t-online.de ################### From: Carl Gustafson Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 07:24:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Red Spider mite > I was looking at my collection today, and to my horror, >a good 50% of my VFTS were looking very sickly. > [snip] > > I was wondering if anyone knew of any biological or environmental >control that is effective on them. I don't want to use Rogor, >as that chemical badly set back my entire Sarracenia collection, >and it is only now that they are just about recovered. If you don't have *too* many, try putting the plants in plastic bags with flea collars (the kind sold for dogs). That should knock out the mites (as well as any fleas or ticks the plant may have). Leave them in the bag for a week or two. Of course, the usual caveat of try this on one or two first always applies. (This also works with scale, aphids, and mealie bugs.) Carl ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 10:20:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Florida > Hello all, > > I'm planing to spend two weeks of March in Florida together with > some friends. They aren't CP enthusiasts but probably I can get > some of them to visit interesting CP places together with me. Can > anyone of you please give me some suggestions of what to visit. > Which plants I can find there (Pitcher Plants, Sundews, > Bladderworts, ...) and where? Special National Parks? > > Any help is appreciated. > > Regards, Tobias: Depends' where you will be, Florida isn't that big - but its still to far to walk. :) If you are south of Orlando the only Sarr. you will find is S. minor. While it does exist all the way down to the big lake, it is not really common enough to find casually. The same is generally true for the three drosera and the Pings that occur this far south. The common utrics are easier to find, and the easiest way to find them is to go into any big apartment complex that has a lake or pond as part of the landscape. In the panhandle, on the other hand, the Sarrs. are still common enough that you can see some of them as you drive down Interstate 10 between Mobile and Panama City. Sundews can be found almost anytime you stop along any of the highways along the drainage ditches or any low-lying areas. D. filiformis, D. intermedia and D. capillaris are fairly common here. Pings seem to be less common but still occur in roadside ditches. There are a few well publicized spots that are still extant for all the CPs, the yellow river for example. If you really want to test your friendships -or your marriage- just pull up to a promising spot, jump out of the car and wander off into the scrub pines and undergrowth -just be sure to take the car keys with you! Tom in Fl ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 16:47:35 Subject: Re: Sarracenia phylogeny Dear Fernando, > I remeber reading here a few weeks back about an article on the > phylogeny of Sarracenia. Does anyone remember that reference? A new paper of interest: "Phylogenetic relationships in Sarraceniaceae based on rbcl and ITS sequences" by Randall J. Bayer, Larry Hufford, and Douglas E. Soltis, in Systematic Botany April-June 1996, Volume 21, Number 2. pp. 121-134. Michael Chamberland Is this what you wanted? > P.S. Jan, about the CPs in Costa Rica, I would imagine D.brevifolia > and/or D.panamensis would also be possible candidates for native > CPs. Not to mention G.filiformis. If I remember well, this species > has been collected as far N as Belize. Yes, possible. BTW there is a www page on the plants of Costa Rica: http://www.inbio.ac.cr/manual.plantas/busca.html or the English equivalent: gopher://cissus.mobot.org:70/77/FL_CL/CL_Costa_Rica./.index/crl Kind regards Jan ################### From: Andrew Marshall Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 09:46:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: microscope slide stains Hello all, A cheap and effective stain can be obtained using methyline blue solution that can be found in all pet shops that deal with fish. Be careful with the stuff, it is permanant and fast. Methyline blue is a standard dye used in treating the fish disease ich and also for treating fungus on eggs etc... it shouldn't cost more then a dollar. The cheap stuff is same as the expensive stuff as far as staining ability. regards Andrew ################### From: "Doug and Meryl Fraser" Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 12:05:33 +0000 Subject: Re: N. burkei and N. ventricosa Hi, With regard to N. burkei I have just seen a photo that a friend took in the Philipines. It looks like a giant form of N. ventricosa but the waist is not as distinctive as it is on N. ventricosa. He believes that it may be N. burkei. The plants that I have labelled in my collection as N. burkei are identical to those that I have labelled as N. ventricosa and the resulting 'hybrids' between the two are identical to all the other N. ventricosa's that frequent my shadehouse. If N. ventricosa and N. burkei are the same species why is N. ventricosa (Blanco, 1898) considered the correct name, when N. burkei (Veitch, 1897) was published first. Please correct me if my information is incorrect. Meryl ################### From: "Zachary Kaufman" Date: 11 Jan 1997 02:30:51 -0000 Subject: SARRACENIA (sarracenia book) Hi Everyone. I just received my copy of SARRACENIA by John and Jean Ainsworth in the mail today. I'm impressed; for the size of the book its quite nice. I finally have/gotten to see pictures of a multitude of Sarracenia hybrids. A happy purchaser, --Zachary-- --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 13:59:23 Subject: Re: N. burkei and N. ventricosa Dear Meryl, > If N. ventricosa and N. burkei are the same species why is N. > ventricosa (Blanco, 1898) considered the correct name, when N. > burkei (Veitch, 1897) was published first. Please correct me if my > information is incorrect. Your information is rather entirely incorrect. Blanco s Flora Filipin. appeared as early as 1837 (!). Although _N. burkei_ was described a bit earlier than you have assumed (Gard. Chron. 3. ser. 6: 492, 1889!) this was still not early enough for having been published first (v.s.). Kind regards Jan PS: Perhaps you and /or others may want to have a look at the cp homepage by Rick Walker in order to answer questions like the above without having to wait for me to do so: http://www.hpl.hp.com/bot/cp_home ################### From: "Christoph A. Belanger" <105601.512@CompuServe.COM> Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 09:05:09 -0500 Subject: N. burbidgea Dave, I have a few selected TC plants and they are growing much faster than other plants in comparison. Two years ago I received a N. truncata that was only 7.5cm in in diameter. To day this plant is a monster with it its 40cm diameter. Of course this plant is a fast grower anyway when grown in the right conditions - or so I have been told. I have seen very similar growth rates with the other TC plants that I have. Take for instance a N. fusca that I received a year ago from Steve Baker (hi steve). I too was very small about 3cm in diameter. Now it has a 15 cm diameter. I have no complaints with TC plants. Maybe you are stressing your plants in somne way? Too dry, or maybe too cold, undetected pests or just stress?? BYW, I just saw an add in the new CPN from Marie's Orchids that has many Nepenthes, including N. burbidgea (for 75$) for sale. It looks like a lot of the prices are similar to Andreas W. with similar plants of similar origin. Christoph ___________________________________________________ Dave Evans wrote, I saw a pot full of them at someone's greenhouse. They were very healthy and still in their lower growth. The grower didn't mention anything about them being slower growers... Unlike his very small rajah which is from tissue culture. Perhaps some of these "slow growers" are just responding negatively to something in the TC media? BTW, I have a very, very small (dime sized) N.gracillima which will not get any larger or establish any roots. It readily grows roots and then appears abort them, I don't know what to make of it. Could this be from a "bad batch", or something? I never heard anything about this being a difficult species. I'm not knocking TC, but the couple plants I've received TC grown haven't impressed me, to say the least. (Perhaps they were not established in pots correctly?) ################### From: takaicp@sh0.po.iijnet.or.jp Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 00:22:50 +0900 Subject: Hello In-vitro workes Konnichiwa In-vitro workers, Many apologies for my silence. I am still very very busy for tomatos. This is the urgent information. I kept the seeds to hand you from Ms.Shibata. The condition is the same as last year. A few of you may associate with "letter 'N'". Unfortunately, they are not seeds from 'N'. I lost E-mail data. Therefore, I must confirm your snail mail address. So please let me know immediately. Do the new comers who do In-vitro culture exist?(Both private and public) Moreover, I am searching In-vitro specialist (epiphyte Utric.) urgently. Kind regards from Japan Isao ################### From: "Zachary Kaufman" Date: 12 Jan 1997 04:12:32 -0000 Subject: SARRACENIA (the book) I've had a couple of request for information on SARRACENIA. So here it goes: title: Sarracenia authors: John and Jean Ainsworth publisher?: Its put out by the National Council for the Conservation of Plants and Gardens number of pages: 54 pages size: 21cm by 15cm binding: paperback hed together by two staples copyright: 1996 ISBN#: 0 9518623 3 2 cost: 4.95 in English pounds shipping: for ME, it was L1.53 notes: NOT a children's book. I haven't read it cover to cover yet, so I can't comment on the accuracy. The intended audience seems to be a gardener/hobbyist wishing to grow, propogate, and hybridize Sarracenia species. Wonderful photographs. Availability: All I can offer is the return address from the envelope in which it came. NCCPG, The Pines, Wisley Garden, Woking, Surrey GU23 6QB (from U.K.) Tel: 0483 211465 Fax: 0483 211750 (I sent pound notes to a contact person for the NCCPG who forwarded my request along I assume to the right person) --Zachary-- --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- ################### From: "Ken Cusson" Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 00:08:11 -0800 Subject: Re: Milder than usual SF winter? Gary, I have been scratching my head over the same thing. I am quite a bit more inland than San Francisco (Salinas) but I seeing the same things. A number of my VFTs are throwing up flower stalks and a Sarracenia that I have not been able to ID is now sending up 2 stalks. Very odd, considering we are still getting cold weather here (down into the 40-30s at night). At this point I am doing nothing ... just watching. But if the weather continues to stay cold, I am going to try covering some of the plants at night ... Ken Cusson ---------- > From: Gary > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Milder than usual SF winter? > Date: Monday, January 06, 1997 11:56 AM > > Hi everyone-- > > Have any other SF Bay Area CPers noticed anything strange about our > winter? I've seen a plum tree in full bloom, and several other trees on > my block look like their about to bloom as well. I just clipped a flower > stalk from one of my thriving VFTs and a S. leucophylla. What's the deal? > Not a single one of my outdoors CPs wants to go dormant or stay dormant. > I'm leaving them be for now, but I was wondering if anyone else in the > region was having similar experiences and what they are doing about it. > > Thanks, > Gary > ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:04:04 +0100 Subject: Re: droseras On 9 Jan 97 at 16:28, Michal Dworaczek wrote: > Can anyone tell me if it is ok to give little Droseras some plant food - > fertilizer? Why do you want to? Aren't they doing just fine without it? I know that nothing can exist on air and pure water alone, but CP are evolved to grow in low nutrient habitats and most soils that you might think of to grow them in will already contain enough food for the plants. And of course they should catch an occasional insect. If you *must* feed them, and they aren't catching insects by themselves, then catch a few for them. Sorry if my answer to this seems rather abrupt, but I think the plants grow best if just left alone to get on with it. Don't look at them for a week, then you will find they are a lot bigger when you next look. Experts might well dabble in using fertiliser, lights, hormones, magic potions etc., after studying just what concentration might work, but if you just go ahead without finding this out, then killing the plant is the most likely outcome. -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:21:11 +0100 Subject: Re: Red Spider mite? On 9 Jan 97 at 1:49, Russell Elliott wrote: > I was looking at my collection today, and to my horror, > a good 50% of my VFTS were looking very sickly. Looking > at them closely, most of the new traps that were emerging > were dead, along with most of the old leaves. To be honest, > I first noticed that they appeared to have more dead leaves > than normal about three weeks ago. Assuming you're in the northern hemisphere, then shouldn't your Venus Fly Traps be largely dormant? Mine go semi-dormant in a greenhouse with minimum 7C - not really growing, lots of dead traps (which I cut off) but still a few live ones. Still, I guess you are the only one who knows what your own plants normally do... > Anyway, I *think* the problem is red spider mite. The leaves > appear to have had their tissue "gouged" out (I'm only talking > about cuts about 1mm in length) and they appear flecked with > dead patches. I have also noticed tiny red dots on the plants. > Since I can't find my hand lens, I cant quite make out what > exactly these are. Red spider aren't all that red, and you really should be able to see them if you look closely enough. If you do see them though a magnifying lens, they usually have a dark spot on each side. I've never had these on my CP (I certainly do on cacti, and anything else they take a fancy to). As you mention 'cuts', I wonder if thrips could be the problem - another pest I have, though again not on the CP. These are linear insects, maybe 1-2 mm long, black or yellow, and often jump if disturbed. > I was wondering if anyone knew of any biological or environmental > control that is effective on them. I don't want to use Rogor, > as that chemical badly set back my entire Sarracenia collection, > and it is only now that they are just about recovered. There is a predatory mite for red-spider called Phytoseiulus persimilis which you can get in the UK (there is also one for thrips), but I doubt the effectiveness of these unless you can provide conditions more suitable for the predator than the prey. Both thrips and red-spider seem very resistant to any insecticides on the amateur market (in this day, if a chemical kills anything, then it seems to be rapidly banned). Yellow or blue sticky traps are quite good for thrips (which are attracted by the colour). -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) ################### From: Eric Cumbee Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:12:01 -0500 Subject: Science project My name is Eric Cumbee and I am in the sixth grade at Ben Hill County Middle School. I am doing a science fair project on using different media and germinating carnivorous plant seed to check the effects of the different kinds of media. Dr. Finer and Dr. Stiff and Jeff Welech and others from the tissue culture news groups have given me lots of ideas and help on my project. My dad grows carnivorous plants and is providing me the seeds and I have ordered some media from England if it ever gets here. And I have printed Mr. walkers pages on tissue culture. My dad has some nepenthesies seeds. He said that he did not want me experimenting on his nepenthesies seeds but if I could find exactly what kind of media it took to grow these seeds he would give me a few to try, Does anybody know where I can buy a little bit of the kin of media. Someday I would like to grow enough plants to send them back to where they came from so they want become exestinct. If any body has any information I would appreciate it. Please don't use to many big words because I have to stop and my dad makes me look them up. My dad said That I could go with hem to the international conference in Atlanta maybe I will see you there. Thank You. Eric Cumbee Ben Hill County Middle School 134 J.C. Hunter drive Fitzgerald, GA 31750 ################### From: Laurent Ide Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 08:31:51 GMT Subject: N. burkei In answer to Dave Evans message, on thursday: Buying a litlle Nepenthes called 'ventricosa', I was expecting the green and red pitchers too. But after a few months I saw they were just like the good description from Dave and understood, viewing a picture in Slack's book, that it was a burkei ! Total confusion for me... Now I got a half explanation. This plant seems not so rare then... Laurent ################### From: Russell Elliott Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 18:32:01 -0800 Subject: Re: Red Spider mite? Clarke Brunt wrote: > > Postage paid by: [Image] > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > On 9 Jan 97 at 1:49, Russell Elliott wrote: > > > I was looking at my collection today, and to my horror, > > a good 50% of my VFTS were looking very sickly. Looking > > at them closely, most of the new traps that were emerging > > were dead, along with most of the old leaves. To be honest, > > I first noticed that they appeared to have more dead leaves > > than normal about three weeks ago. > > Assuming you're in the northern hemisphere, then shouldn't your Venus > Fly Traps be largely dormant? Mine go semi-dormant in a greenhouse > with minimum 7C - not really growing, lots of dead traps (which I cut > off) but still a few live ones. Still, I guess you are the only one > who knows what your own plants normally do... > > > Anyway, I *think* the problem is red spider mite. The leaves > > appear to have had their tissue "gouged" out (I'm only talking > > about cuts about 1mm in length) and they appear flecked with > > dead patches. I have also noticed tiny red dots on the plants. > > Since I can't find my hand lens, I cant quite make out what > > exactly these are. > > Red spider aren't all that red, and you really should be able to see > them if you look closely enough. If you do see them though a > magnifying lens, they usually have a dark spot on each side. I've > never had these on my CP (I certainly do on cacti, and anything else > they take a fancy to). As you mention 'cuts', I wonder if thrips > could be the problem - another pest I have, though again not on the > CP. These are linear insects, maybe 1-2 mm long, black or yellow, and > often jump if disturbed. > > > I was wondering if anyone knew of any biological or environmental > > control that is effective on them. I don't want to use Rogor, > > as that chemical badly set back my entire Sarracenia collection, > > and it is only now that they are just about recovered. > > There is a predatory mite for red-spider called Phytoseiulus > persimilis which you can get in the UK (there is also one for > thrips), but I doubt the effectiveness of these unless you can > provide conditions more suitable for the predator than the prey. Both > thrips and red-spider seem very resistant to any insecticides on the > amateur market (in this day, if a chemical kills anything, then it > seems to be rapidly banned). Yellow or blue sticky traps are quite > good for thrips (which are attracted by the colour). > > -- > Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) Clarke, I live in Australia, its just that I use a geocities account based in America. Anyway, thanks for the help everyone, it appears that the infestation has nearly been wiped out. All I did was raise the humidity to about 90%, and that seems to have knocked off the mites. Thanks to the person who suggested that, sorry I can't remember who you were! Thanks, Russell Elliott -- *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ! Russell Elliott ! ! Seed Bank Director, ! ! Australian Carnivorous Plant Society ! ! mailto:relliott@geocities.com ! ! mailto:elliott@nexus.edu.au ! *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ################### From: Jacques.Boulay@scbiol.u-nancy.fr Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:56:13 +0100 (MET) Subject: VFT seeds Hello every one, I have to teach micropropagation, and I am looking for a great quantity of VFT seeds. Thank you in adcance, Jacques Jacques BOULAY Laboratoire de Biologie Forestiere Universite Henri Poincare de Nancy I equipe vitro-methodes et variabilite B.P. 239 54 506 Vandoeuvre-les-Nancy France Tel : 33 (03) 83 91 21 14 Fax : 33 (03) 83 91 25 64 ################### From: L235@aol.com Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 09:46:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: re: Florida > Hello all, > > I'm planing to spend two weeks of March in Florida together with > some friends. They aren't CP enthusiasts but probably I can get > some of them to visit interesting CP places together with me. Can > anyone of you please give me some suggestions of what to visit. > Which plants I can find there (Pitcher Plants, Sundews, > Bladderworts, ...) and where? Special National Parks? > > Any help is appreciated. > > Regards, Tobias: Just to add to what Tom already said: In terms of National Parks, I'd recommend Apalachicola Natl. Forest for CPs, if you can manage to get up to the Talahassee area (about 4 hours north of Orlando if you drive like I do). Within the confines of the forest are: S. flava S. purpurea venosa (pink-flowered form) S. psittacina D. filiformis tracyi D. capillaris P. lutea P. caerulea P. primuliflora P. planifolia P. ionantha (or close by) a number of aquatic and terrestrial utrics S. leucophylla and naturalized VFTs grow within a few minutes drive of the national forest, and S. minor is supposed to grow close to the southeastern border (I've never been able to confirm). Just remember (obligatory disclaimer) that all plants are protected w/in the boundaries of the forest, all sarracenia are protected in Florida (I believe) and P. ionantha is a federally endangered species. Jay Lechtman ################### From: jcavanau@indyunix.iupui.edu (john e. cavanaugh) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:57:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: Sphagnum experiment Hello again fellow CPers! Just thought I'd let you know how my experiment is going. Complete failure, is how it's going. No, the moss is actually doing very well, with the moss in the elevated pots doing the best. The problem is that the experiment has a fatal methodological flaw: elevation of the pots above the water brings them much closer to the light source, so that the amount of light received is something like 4X more than the moss in the pots on the bottom of the terrerium! Duh-Huh! I can't believe I missed something so basic - and me an expert on methodology. To do the experiment properly, I would have to use two identical aquaria, with all the pots placed on inverted empty pots to bring them to the same level below the lights, the only difference being the level of the water at the bottom (1inch vs 8 inches deep). Anyway, I think I figured out the original problem - the new batch of moss just looks much healthier initially than the last batch did. Additionally, I had a problem with overheating during the summer so the moss probably got poached like my Neps did. Finally, does anyone know if fertilizer is harmfull or beneficial to sphagnum? How about misting vs. watering from above vs. watering from below only (using diluted plant food?) Does fertilizer increase the risk of damping off? ################### From: Philip Thomas Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 06:35:11 -1000 (HST) Subject: RE: Rumex gigantea Nursery of choice: Ho'olawa Farms P.O. Box P.O. Box 731 Ha'ku, Maui, Hawaii 96708 USA voice phone (808) 572-4835 Anna Palomino, Proprietor Please tell them that Philip Thomas referred you to them. Also, you might ask for the "Directory of Sources for Native Hawaiian Plants" from: Center for Plant Conservation P.O. Box 19000 Honolulu, Hawaii 96817 USA I can't vouch for the sources in this book directly, however. Also tell them that I referred you. Aloha, -Philip Thomas On Mon, 13 Jan 1997, Nigel Hurneyman wrote: > > > Hello Philip, > > I believe you published the name of a supplier of Hawaiian native plant > material, but I'm afraid I can't find it - could you e-mail it to me please. > > I was reading about some Rumex specimens in the UK that were > initially identified as Rumex Giganteus. The author of the definitive > monograph on British Docks and Knotweeds explains that this is > impossible because Rumex Giganteus is a 12ft tall, tender species > from Hawaii. I am hoping to start a National Collection of docks; > Rumex Giganteus would not be an important addition because it is > not native to the UK and not of horticultural significance here. > Nevertheless it sounds as though it would be a fun plant to try in my > conservatory, so I would be interested in trying some seed from a > reputable source. > > Thanks, Nigel Hurneyman > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Philip A. Thomas - thomasp@maui.com OR halesci@hawaii.edu P.O. Box 1272 - Puunene, Maui, Hawaii 96784 USA voice: (808) 572-9306 ext. 3233 fax: (808) 572-1304 http://www.maui.com/~thomasp/PhilipAnthonyThomas # Opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent ## ## the views of USGS/BRD, RCUH, CPSU, UH, or anyone besides just me!# ################### From: LZRV01A@prodigy.com (MR CHAD E WILLIAMS) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 11:39:12, -0500 Subject: Intro. I am a new subscriber to the CP digest. My name is Chad Williams. I am in my 3rd year of college studying Natural Resources. I first became interested in Carnivorous Plants about 8 years ago when I seen an add in the paper for VFT bulbs 88 cents each. From there my interests continued to grow. I have had much fun here in Indiana by making an artificial bog in the summer. I have successfully wintered over VFT's in it! This was very exciting because it gets pretty cold here in the winters. I also work as a seasonal naturalist with the IDNR, florist, and substitute teacher. Anyway, I look forward to being a part of your discussion group. Naturally, Chad ################### From: saharris@iafrica.com (Eric Green) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 97 02:49:16 GMT Subject: Apologies again!!! Hi!, Why am I having to apologize for all this mess!!!!. I received an e-mail message from Mr.Schlauer on 1/13/97 and it concluded with this sentance. (Would you mind to write a short note (news & views) for CPN on all this mess?) I cultivate over 600 different species/hybrids/forms/varieties/nom.nuds of Carnivorous Plants for my own pleasure, many with names like Pinguicula pachuca, ayautla, sp linz, Drosera sp 2 Cuba, sp 8 Borneo etc. names which I doubt have ever been "published", many having been in use these past 20 years of me growing them. Mr.Schlauer requested info on the listserve 1/9/97 regarding 60+ Nepenthes names he had never seen "published", unfortunately one looked familiar to me, I regretably answered. Dear Jan Approximately 5 years ago, Mr Londt, a horticulturist/botanist? of the Pretoria Botanical Gardens, had heard I grew CPs, and phoned to ask if I was interested in some pollen of a Nep flowering at the Botanical Gardens, which he believed had come from Madagascar. The pollen was used on khasiana, ventricosa and x Rokko. I would assume the pollen was either madagascariensis or masoalensis, but that is even doubtful. ALL THE BEST Eric Dear Eric, So the hybrid name "Londt" is your product? When was it published where so that Phill Mann from Australia uses it like other published names? Thank you very much in advance for any information. Kind regards Jan Dear Jan, Seeds of the crosses I made were sent to Allen Lowrie, informing him of the possibility that the "Londt" could either be madagascariensis or masoalensis. It appeared on Allen's seed list as Londt. ALL THE BEST Eric Dear Eric, As _Nepenthes madagascariensis_ is much more common than _N. masoalensis_, the former is most likely the plant Mr. Londt has sent you pollen of. Then you have sent an undeclared mixture of seed of crosses made by pollinating _N. khasiana, ventricosa_ and * Rokko with "Londt" to Allen Lowrie who sells this jumble (i.e. not the parent species) as "Londt". I have now received a synonym list from Phill Mann who states the bastard formula "? madagascariensis * masoalensis" for Nepenthes * Londt . Can you imagine what will circulate as "Londt" among _Nepenthes_ growers around the globe within a few months (and the subsequent questions of these growers on the internet and elsewhere)? Would you mind to write a short note (news & views) for CPN on all this mess? Kind regards Jan The above can be used in the CP Newsletter as a question and answer article if the Editor wishes, I have seen similiar articles in the Playboy. My Nep.x rokko which has been cultivated in South Africa these past 30 years, well before my CP days, does not look anything like the x rokko I have seen in "published" books, so the "Londt x rokko could be almost anything, but then again my Nep.macfarlanei looks nothing like the photo on page 107 of the amazing Kondo book, but when Dr.Roger Shivas visited me some years ago, he confirmed that mine was the correct species. KIND REGARDS Eric Green ################### From: "Carl Mazur" Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 21:46:54 -0800 Subject: Re: VFT seeds The only place where I know to buy large quantities of VFT seed is The Flytrap Company P.O. Box 484 Wilmington North Carolina 28402 U.S.A. Phone : (910) 231.2254 Fax (910) 762.3168 > Hello every one, > I have to teach micropropagation, and I am looking for a great quantity of > VFT seeds. > ################### From: "Carl Mazur" Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 22:39:32 -0800 Subject: A couple of thoughts Hi all, I just got my December issue of CPN, and as always, I find something of particular interest to me. I'm a CLOD!!! AHHHHH!! You know, Barry, I need help. I don't know what causes it! There is always a reason to add a new label and plant. I, like Barry, am Sarraphile, all species, forms, genetic variations, races however you want to say it. However, for the true Sarraphile, it seems that locality is important. Not so much down to a street or highway, but at least a region or county. This information adds insight into the species. For instance. The red tube plants on the back of the CPN issue are from the Appalachicola area of Florida. I knew this without looking at the credit. Take a look at the lids. They curve down at the edges. The only flavas I've ever seen that do that are from that area of the florida pan handle. If someone doesn't know where a particular plant comes from in a collection, sometimes clues can be taken from the plant morphology. Also, knowing location data may help in identifying hybrid influences in plants. Knowing a natural hybrid of purpurea x rubra is from alabama, the only parents can be purpurea venosa var burkii and rubra wherryii I too, don't buy the rationale that we can repopulate a population because we know where a plant came from. However, knowing its location data, will allow us to go put up a "RIP" sign when the time comes! Just a few thoughts ################### From: LZRV01A@prodigy.com (MR CHAD E WILLIAMS) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 20:57:23, -0500 Subject: Re: My experience with VFT's! I thought of this story while reading CP 959 Re: Florida from Tobias. Two summers ago we went to Myrtle Beach S.C. on vacation. I had to go because I knew I would be near some flytrap habitat. After much begging to my friends to take me up North to a State Park around Wilmington N.C. to see VFT's in the wild, the finally gave in. So we were off!! I can't explain how excited I was. When we arrived, we seen a map of an area called flytrap loop. So we went to flytrap loop in search for these little meat eaters. We must have searched for a good 45 minutes. No flytraps. It was about 95 degrees this day and we all were about to pass out. They wanted to go back. NO! Not until I seen my babies!!! We found a park ranger and he told us where to go. So we went back, walked about 10 yards into the woods, and seen some flytraps! I was about to pass out. Not from the heat, but from the excitement. Suddenly we heard a noise that sounded like a window breaking. Yep! Somebody broke in the van and stole two purses and a few other items. Everyone in my group was crying because they had lost everything. But guess what! My wallet was in my back pocket, and my cellular phone was still under the seat. I was missing nothing. So while they were crying and talking to the sheriff, myself and the park ranger went back to look for more CP's. She showed me some beautiful flytraps, a tiny sundew, and a white fringed orchid. For me this was the best trip ever. For the rest of my group, well...I think they could care less about the future of any carnivorous plant. Chad ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 23:29:33 -0700 Subject: Galleria Carnivora Hey, I don't know if I mentioned this.... I have prepared a few new CP websites. The first is for CPN (I know I mentioned this before) http://www.indirect.com/www/bazza/cps/cpn/cpn.html The second is for GALLERIA CARNIVORA. This is a fictional (and pompous) gallery of carnivorous plant photographs. There is a clickable map of the two-floor gallery. I put a bit of humour into it, to accompany the photos. I hope you enjoy it. http://www.indirect.com/www/bazza/photos/gallery1.html Barry ################### From: Ploobutt@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 01:43:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: plants wanted Hi, I was wondering if anyone was selling, or knew where i could buy Heliamphora, Genlisea, or any tuberous sundews. Thank you, Gabriel Verdugo e-mail: ploobutt@aol.com ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:19:02 Subject: Re: Apologies again!!! Dear Eric & al., > Why am I having to apologize for all this mess!!!!. Sorry if I expressed that badly. I did not want you to apologize for anything. I just thought it would be nice if you could clarify the rather confusing situation around "Londt" because you obviously know the details. It would certainly be of great benefit to the cp community if you could do so. Thank you very much for the consideration. > many with names like Pinguicula pachuca, ayautla, > sp linz, Drosera sp 2 Cuba, sp 8 Borneo etc. names which I doubt > have ever been "published", many having been in use these past 20 > years of me growing them. Do you want to say that this kind of "nomenclature" should be perpetuated just because it did not kill anyone in the past 20 years? I do certainly have other views regarding this issue. > (...) The above can be used in the CP Newsletter as a question and > answer article if the Editor wishes, I have seen similiar articles > in the Playboy. I doubt CPN can really be compared with the Playboy. Anyway, the cited text is too long for the info conveyed (on _Nepenthes_). I do not mind to publish it in the form of a dialogue but it should be reduced to the relevant essentials. Would you like to do that? Kind regards Dr. Jan Schlauer CPN co-editor ################### From: saharris@iafrica.com (Eric Green) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 97 10:36:54 GMT Subject: Re: Apologies again!!! Hi!, > >Pinguicula pachuca, ayautla,> sp linz, Drosera sp 2 Cuba, > >sp 8 Borneo etc. names which I doubt > have ever been > >"published", many having been in use these past 20 > years > >of me growing them. > Do you want to say that this kind of "nomenclature" should be > perpetuated just because it did not kill anyone in the past > 20 years? > I do certainly have other views regarding this issue. Dr.Schlauer I realize only too well that you have other views regarding this issue, but many of the above plants have been around for many years, yet I have heard of no efforts to find the originators of these names. I remember reading of Nepenthes hybrids which originated during the early hybridizing days, parentage having been lost through the years, but the plants are still loved and cared for. I still believe if someone was offering pollen of a (weird/beautiful/unusual) unknown Nepenthes, of which there are many in cultivation, there would be many takers. > (...) The above can be used in the CP Newsletter as a > question and answer article if the Editor wishes, I have seen > similiar articles in the Playboy. > > I doubt CPN can really be compared with the Playboy. You are putting ideas into peoples minds, I believe it was obvious that I was indicating that the Editor or Co-Editor would cringe from an article with Q&A, as you have done. > Anyway, the cited text is too long for the info conveyed (on > _Nepenthes_). I do not mind to publish it in the form of a > dialogue but it should be reduced to the relevant essentials. > Would you like to do that? Fair enough!!!, You can do it, but I do believe that seeing as You originaly posted a list of over 60 names, it would be only fair to me, if you were to have a list of at least half the names, and their originators in the manner you propose. Otherwise it would look like you were trying to get at me personally. ALL THE BEST Eric ################### From: Heather Frederick Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 23:40:26 +1300 (NZDT) Subject: Sphagnum expeiment Message-ID: Finally, does anyone know if fertilizer is harmfull or beneficial >to sphagnum? How about misting vs. watering from above vs. watering from >below only (using diluted plant food?) Does fertilizer increase the >risk of damping off? Hi I'm a new subscriber but I have been growing CP for 14 years now and I have never had any problem growing sphagnum. For me, it grows best on top of peat or peat/pumice mix. I keep the mix saturated and the sphagnum draws what moisture it needs from the mix. The whole lot is under 30 percent shade cloth, partly to keep the birds out. Using this method I have had sphagnum hummocks 600 mm thick in under 2 years. It's a real pain over Sarracenia psittacina. Any kind of fertializer has resulted in major growth of algae/fungi which has a detrimental effect on the sphagnum growth. It's all open to rainfall but if the sphagnum gets a bit pale and dry looking I water from above, in our area that means just putting the garden hose on it. The sphagnum I have inside will respond to misting in the short-term, but it needs a good water through at least once every 10 days. Hope this is of some help. Heather in Auckland, New Zealand ################### From: Nigel Hurneyman Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:20:42 -0000 Subject: More Off Topic I had to queue to buy my newspaper this morning. As I scanned the racks of magazines, I noticed an adult magazine in the middle with the telly listings. On the front cover was the headline: CP SEX: HOW FAR CAN YOU GO? The mind boggles! ################### From: Laurent Ide Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:41:08 GMT Subject: Catch the pest-N. Burkei Against jumping little insects that invade your pots, turn the pot over near a Pinguicula and disturb your visitors (blowing to the soil for example)... Jumping to escape to the evil blast from this unknown predator, they just fall into the sticky leaves of the 'butterwort'. A lot of them will escape, remaining in the pot, but most of them should be caught, and you can repeat this operation ! Good for the Ping' too. Thinking about the explanation saying that the red pitchers of supposed N. burkei could be a juvenile form of N. ventricosa, I'd like to tell that my own supposed burkei had FIRST green pitchers with red peristom, horizontal. THEN the next ones turned to red, and for now they are approaching the peristom color on all their surface, with a few darker lines. How to accept this as an evolution of the so called juvenile form then ? Will there be a next step in the growing of my plant ? I'm expecting your explanations. ################### From: Andrew Marshall Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:48:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: shipping N. seed Hello folks, Any ideas about what might happen when shipping lowland Nepenthes seed in temps that are well below freezing? Will they be killed? Any ideas about how to minimize any damage please? I appreciate any help. Thanks and good growing Andrew ################### From: Michael.Grosalski@t-online.de (Michael Grosalski) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 22:24:56 -0800 Subject: Thank you all !! Hello all CP-Fans! The new year is a good reason for me to thank you all for the mass of informative and very useful infos about cp\264s! For a relative new cp grower (since 2 years) this daily mail-list is now a very valuable database in case of problems with my plants. Because I\264m a read-only recipient at the moment, I\264d like to point out that all the information I received are more valuable than any book I\264ve ever read. So, go on everybody as is the past year and I\264ll try to place some of my experiences to the list in future! Thanks and good-bye from deeply - frozen Germsny Michael ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 17:20:31 -0700 Subject: Carl the CLOD Carl Mazur wrote: >I just got my December issue of CPN, and as always, I find something of >particular interest to me. I'm a CLOD!!! AHHHHH!! You know, Barry, I need >help. I don't know what causes it! There is always a reason to add a new >label and plant. :) I'm glad you found the article thought provoking. Now get to a pyschotherapist! Pronto! :) Barry ################### From: Rick Hyde Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 16:33:28 -0800 Subject: BACPS meeting? and misc pointers... Hello all, I'm a sometime lurker on the list, have grown a small collection of a dozen or so CP for the last few years, and just completed my greenhouse in time to avoid the first hard frost since I started the collection(!) First, the question: Can some one please tell me when and where the next San Francisco BACPS meeting is going to be? Thank you. Next, some info: I just came across this link to a laserdisk edition of "Death Trap" that is not mentioned in any of the WWW CP sites: http://electra.cortland.com/vdyweb/school/catalog/DEA.htm It comes with a teachers manual / narrative guide and study questions. The price given at this site is $95 US, but you can obtain the disk from: http://www.laserdiscs.com/ for $45 US (I'm not affiliated with either place). Additionally, there is a china collection called "Portmerion" which features different botannical illustrations on each piece. One of the dinner plates has a very nice illustration of a Venus flytrap in full bloom. I have one on display in the greenhouse to inspire my plants! Portmerion is available at places like Macys, Bloomingdales, and other up-scale department stores. I'd like to say "Thank You!" to the members of this list for all of the fine information they have contributed. It has been very useful to me and I look forward to the day when I can contribute information myself. Cheers, Rick Hyde ################### From: "Zachary Kaufman" Date: 14 Jan 1997 19:08:54 -0000 Subject: cold and darlingtonia I was wondering what experience growers out their have with the effects of ice on Darlingtonia. I left my plant out last night (we are experiencing freezing weather here in the S.F. Bay Area). This morning I went outside and found the half inch thick layer of "live" sphagnum moss growing ontop of the 8 inch pot frozen hard as a rock. The water the pot was standing in was also frozen solid. The cobra lily is potted in a plastic pot in 1:1:1 peat/perlite/orchid bark mix. If the media froze, have I lost the plant? wishing I'ld brought the cobra lily indoors last night, --Zachary-- --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- ################### From: dave evans Date: Tue, 14 Jan 97 21:30 EST Subject: Re: cold and darlingtonia > From: "Zachary Kaufman" > > --Zachary-- Hi Zach, Considering the plant is native to northern California and it's winters can be much colder than what it's currently getting, I think you have very little to worry about. Just don't let the pot freeze dry. This will kill your plant. Dave Evans ################### From: "Zachary Kaufman" Date: 14 Jan 1997 19:30:21 -0000 Subject: measuring restivity of water Several months ago I purchased a R.O. unit. Wanting to keep track of the membrane's health, I placed stainless steel wire sperated at a fixed distance into some R.O. water produced by the unit. I then attached my digital multimeter's leads to the two pieces of stainless steel wire. To my surprise, I did not get a steady resistance measurement diplayed on the digital multimeter. Instead, the value kept climbing. My question is why, and how do I get a resistivity measurement of my R.O. units output water. I'm not concerned with the meaningfullness of the measurement. I'm just looking for a way to accurately track the output water's relative quality from batch to batch over time. --Zachary-- --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- ################### From: blymn@awadi.com.au (Brett Lymn) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 16:14:11 +1030 (CST) Subject: Re: measuring restivity of water According to Zachary Kaufman: > >Several months ago I purchased a R.O. unit. Wanting to keep >track of the membrane's health, I placed stainless steel >wire sperated at a fixed distance into some R.O. water produced >by the unit. I then attached my digital multimeter's leads >to the two pieces of stainless steel wire. To my surprise, >I did not get a steady resistance measurement diplayed on the >digital multimeter. Instead, the value kept climbing. > :-) Oxidation/Electrolysis dude. You are probably building up a nice layer of oxide on one of the electrodes - yeah sure they are stainless steel but the stuff does oxidise. Actually, this is why SS stays bright looking - the oxide is clear and actually protects the metal from further corrosion except in some circumstances like in a reducing atmosphere (if I remember my materials lectures correctly) where the oxide layer breaks down and the metal corrodes. Getting a resistivity measurement from water is tricky as you have found out. I think that one way of reducing the effects of electrolysis is to use and alternating current as the voltage source and to use as low a voltage as you can. This is a bit difficult with a multimeter because a) they use DC and b) they use a fixed voltage depending on the range. About the only thing you could do would be to be very quick when doing the measurement to minimise the effects of electrolysis. -- Brett Lymn, Computer Systems Administrator, AWA Defence Industries =============================================================================== "Upgrading your memory gives you MORE RAM!" - ad in MacWAREHOUSE catalogue. ################### From: dmjoel@netvision.net.il (Daniel M. Joel) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 07:48:28 +0300 Subject: Sphagnum The discussion re: Sphagnum is of great value. I only wonder if we all think of the same species. My experience is that some grow better at my home, others not. Does anybody really know the species names? As far as I know, identification of Sphagnum species is extremely difficult since most of them do rarely produce r eproductive organs and sporophytes (yes, those organs holding spore capsules...). Perhaps the best info for most of us will be the geographical source of Sphagnum. We can then use local floras and organize the info correctly. Danny ################### From: andrew.harbottle@newcastle.ac.uk (Andrew Harbottle) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:52:28 +0000 Subject: Albany Pitcher Plants Does Anyone know of a UK supplier of albany pitcher plants? I have been after one for some time now but ordering overseas is not really possible for a poor Phd student. Cheers Andy ################### From: DGoodr4319@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:07:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: Heat Hi All, I have a tank in my basement and the temperture down there has hit lows of 56 F. Well , some of my plants are starting to show the effect of this( traps dying ,leaves turning brown.) Does anyone know of a way to warm up the tank that is inexpensive? I guess I am looking for the temperture to be between 68 & 70 F, but anything above 60 F would do. I know the smart thing to do is just bring the plants upstairs but I do not the room for the tank upstairs and I would lose my light source. Besides I am the only one who has an interest in these plants. ( my younger two find the VFT interesting but mine are "sleeping" and the other plants just sit there as my kids say) So the plants have to stay the in the basement. If anyone has an idea or two please let me know. Thank-you Doug ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:17:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: cold and darlingtonia > I was wondering what experience growers out their have with > the effects of ice on Darlingtonia. I left my plant out > last night (we are experiencing freezing weather here in > the S.F. Bay Area). This morning I went outside and found the > half inch thick layer of "live" sphagnum moss growing > ontop of the 8 inch pot frozen hard as a rock. The water > the pot was standing in was also frozen solid. The cobra > lily is potted in a plastic pot in 1:1:1 peat/perlite/orchid bark > mix. If the media froze, have I lost the plant? > wishing I'ld brought the cobra lily indoors last night, > --Zachary-- Zachary: For Sarrs. I have had no ill effects from plants frozen into their pots just as you describe. I would hazard to guess your Darlingtonia will do fine too. Frozen sphagnum sure does look weird! Tom in Fl ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:40:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Nepenthes distillatoria Just a quick question. I acquired an N. distillatoria cutting recently which is beginning to produce pitchers. The grower who provided it mentioned that this species was not known to have pitchered in collections. Was his comment hyperbole or should I take a picture? Tom in Fl ################### From: L235@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 09:43:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: re: Locality Clod (was a couple of thoughts) In a message dated 1/14/97 11:35:18 PM, Carl Mazur wrote: >I just got my December issue of CPN, and as always, I find something >of particular interest to me. I'm a CLOD!!! AHHHHH!! You know, >Barry, I need help. I don't know what causes it! There is always a >reason to add a new label and plant. > > >I, like Barry, am Sarraphile, all species, forms, genetic >variations, races however you want to say it. However, for the true >Sarraphile, it seems that locality is important. I'm gonna run the (relatively common) risk of opening my mouth before I have the facts. (I haven't received CPN yet). Is this the long-held discussion about the value of locality data? I've read what Barry has posted on his web-sites, and if I'm correct ... My name is Jay Lechtman, and I'm a locality clod, too. (should start a 12-step program -- CPLA (CP Locations Anonymous)). I'm a sarracenia lover as well (though I wouldn't go as far as Nigel's observed tabloid cover ), and the plants have greater meaning for me if I know roughly (even state or county level data at least) where they came from. And as Carl points out, I do believe there to be some valid reasons for wanting such data. To wit: S. minor has an extensive range, from Central Florida to Southern North Carolina (not to mention that of S. purpurea purpurea). If someone in a colder clime is having trouble with an S. minor from the southern-most part of its range, would it not be worth trying one from the northern-most extent? And this modest cultivation help pales in comparison with the identification issues that Carl raised. (If I've got an S. psittacina x S. rubra and I know it came from Perdido, Alabama, it should be easier to identify as S. psitt x S. rubra wheryi). This value is only compounded when I see location data as part of the common name in cultivation/trade. (e.g. S. rubra "Taylor County GA") ... knowing its location can narrow it down to a possibly-ancestral form of S. rubra as a group of subspecies, rather than just a particularly-attractive mutant from N. Carolina, for instance. (Likewise, wouldn't you like to know if an S. oreophila originally came from now-gone sites in Georgia, as opposed to the slightly-more common Alabama?) And so on ..... FWIW (less than my normal $.02 US likely) Jay Lechtman ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 10:29:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: measuring restivity of water > Several months ago I purchased a R.O. unit. Wanting to keep > track of the membrane's health, I placed stainless steel > wire sperated at a fixed distance into some R.O. water produced > by the unit. I then attached my digital multimeter's leads > to the two pieces of stainless steel wire. .... snip > I'm just looking for > a way to accurately track the output water's relative quality > from batch to batch over time. > --Zachary-- Sounds like your really interested in ensuring that water qualtiy remains high over time. That's a good question. My unit had instructions to replace the membrane annually, but I believe that this life expectancy was based on gallons of water produced. If I remember correctly the estimated life was about 3500 gallons. I am estimating usable life based on the number of times I have filled a 55 gallon container. My unit is about 2 years old and I have not replaced the membrane yet, although I do have a replacement handy. I would be interested in hearing a better way to do it. Tom in Fl. ################### From: Wayne Forrester Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 07:50:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Heat Hi Doug, You don't say what kind of tank you have your plants in but if it's one of the standard fish tanks, or something similar there are heat strips (I'm not sure what they're called, but they're about a 12 inches wide and come in rolls which can be cut to length) that work pretty well. I have them under my two tanks. I bought them as kits at a pet shop that sells reptiles and amphibians. The kits included the heat pad cut to the length I wanted, with wire and clips to attache the wire, and a rheostat to adjust the heat. I paid about $30 for the kit with a 3 foot long strip. The room I have my tanks in is usually in the 60's, and the strips keep the soil temp at about 80 F. I think they work reasonably well. Note, the strips go under the tank, not in it. Alternatives that come to mind would be soil heating cables or even an aquarium heater immersed in water, but I would guess these might be a little less effective. Hope this helps. Wayne Forrester ################### From: Heggood@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:53:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: growlux vs cool white Has anyone that grows CP under flourescent lights done any studies to determine which is better; GROWLUX which claims a more useful spectrum to plants or COOL-WHITE which appears to have more light output? -steve- ################### From: Perry Malouf Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 13:06:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: growlux vs cool white Steve asked: > Has anyone that grows CP under flourescent lights done any > studies to determine which is better; GROWLUX which claims > a more useful spectrum to plants or COOL-WHITE which appears > to have more light output? While I haven't done an actual experiment, I can report that half of the fluorescent tubes I use are cool white, and the other half are growlux. My Nepenthes pitchers color up quite nicely, too. Perry Malouf ################### From: -Tom- Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 18:46:26 GMT Subject: Re: growlux vs cool white >Has anyone that grows CP under flourescent lights done any >studies to determine which is better; GROWLUX which claims >a more useful spectrum to plants or COOL-WHITE which appears >to have more light output? I can't say I have done any studies, just outright observations...... Mix the two and combine the best of both worlds. That's what I do and it works great! Plus it is a bit cheaper that way since the gro-lux bulbs are so damn expensive. Take care & keep on growing, -Tom- & Krissy ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 15:58:30 -0600 (CST) Subject: I'm back! Hi all, After a long hiatus (hibernation, if you're a CP!) I've rejoined the mailing group. Sorry to leave so abrubtly, but bigger things in life came up (still happily married though ;-)!). Unfortunately, not only did the group miss my stimulating conversations (another ;-)), but my CP's suffered due to neglect (as I said, I just couldn't help it at the time). Anyways, to prevent myself from rambling on, I'm basically startig from scratch other than the N.alata I kept alive and the D.capensis that refused to die. I do have some seeds left over and I'm willing to start trading again. Glad to be back again. I look forward to catching up with everyone. Regards, Chris Teichreb Department of Biology University of Regina Regina, Saskatchewan, CANADA teichrch@Meena.CC.URegina.CA ################### From: Phil Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 22:09:01 GMT Subject: Re: Hello In-vitro workes Hello, I saw your message the other day so I know you are still around although I see you are very busy growing tomatoes. Did you get my previous message about you Sarracenia seeds? If you want me to keep your seeds please let me know, otherwise I will sell them to another grower. Best regards, -- Phil Wilson (cp@pwilson.demon.co.uk) ################### From: Rand Nicholson Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 18:56:33 -0400 Subject: Re: cold and darlingtonia >> I was wondering what experience growers out their have with the >> effects of ice on Darlingtonia. I left my plant out last night >> (we are experiencing freezing weather here in the S.F. Bay Area). >> This morning I went outside and found the half inch thick layer of >> "live" sphagnum moss growing ontop of the 8 inch pot frozen hard >> as a rock. The water the pot was standing in was also frozen >> solid. The cobra lily is potted in a plastic pot in 1:1:1 >> peat/perlite/orchid bark mix. If the media froze, have I lost the >> plant? wishing I'ld brought the cobra lily indoors last night, >> --Zachary-- > > >Zachary: For Sarrs. I have had no ill effects from plants frozen >into their pots just as you describe. I would hazard to guess your >Darlingtonia will do >fine too. Frozen sphagnum sure does look weird! > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >Tom in Fl No more than my icicled butt! Most sphagnum that is used in the States comes from Canada. Moose eat it in the winter. If only I could market it on a stick ... Rand in Ca ################### From: Rand Nicholson Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 18:48:37 -0400 Subject: Re: cold and darlingtonia >> I was wondering what experience growers out their have with >> the effects of ice on Darlingtonia. I left my plant out >> last night (we are experiencing freezing weather here in >> the S.F. Bay Area). This morning I went outside and found the >> half inch thick layer of "live" sphagnum moss growing >> ontop of the 8 inch pot frozen hard as a rock. The water >> the pot was standing in was also frozen solid. The cobra >> lily is potted in a plastic pot in 1:1:1 peat/perlite/orchid bark >> mix. If the media froze, have I lost the plant? >> wishing I'ld brought the cobra lily indoors last night, >> --Zachary-- > Hi Zachary: Worry yourself not. As long as the plant does not dry out from wind, it will ignore temps down to -25 C (from experience). If the plant is frozen, try to keep it that way for as long as possible. If it is mature, it may have a better blooming season when it reinitiates growth in the spring and watch out for rhizomes coming out of the soil. I have found that, if Darlingtonia has a good dormancy period, it will put out suckers, bloom quite nicely, and grow like a weed in the early part of spring. I lost mine due to a vacation and a heat wave co-inciding two years ago. Keep the roots _cool_! Especially when it is in a growth spurt. I use ice cubes. Rand (in Canada) ################### From: "Joe Mazrimas" Date: 15 Jan 1997 16:17:26 -0800 Subject: BACPS Meeting dates Subject: Time: 4:04 PM OFFICE MEMO BACPS Meeting dates Date: 1/15/97 The schedule of BACPS meetings are set for 1997. They are: March 8-- Randall Museum, 199 Museum Way, S.F., CA June 7--- California Carnivores, Forestville, CA August 16-U.C. Berkeley Botanical Garden, Berkeley, CA Nov. 15---First Assembly of God Hall, 801 Hellyer Ave., San Jose, CA Details and maps to these locations will be published in the BACPS Newsletter prior to the dates shown. Meeting times are 12 noon to 4:00PM. Everyone is welcome. New members may purchase the newsletter by sending $5.00 to the address below. Current members(for one year) get their issues free. BACPS, 39011 Applegate Terrace, Fremont, CA 94536 ################### From: ">LZRV01A@prodigy.com (MR CHAD E WILLIAMS) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 23:31:29, -0500 Subject: "Death Trap" Could anyone please tell me where I could obtain a VHS version of the video "Death Trap"? Thank You!!! Chad ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 08:11:14 Subject: Re: _Nepenthes distillatoria_ Dear Tom, > Just a quick question. I acquired an N. distillatoria cutting recently which > is beginning to produce pitchers. The grower who provided it mentioned that > this species was not known to have pitchered in collections. Was his comment > hyperbole Yes. There is a picture and description of the pitcher of this species from cultivation (at Glasnevin, Veitch nurseries, Williams, Holloway) by W.G.Smith in Gard.Chron.2.ser.17:398-399 (1882) under the name "N. hirsuta var. glabrescens", which is a synonym of _N. distillatoria_. > or should I take a picture? Perhaps that would not do any harm. We do not have an illustration for this species on the WEB page yet. Kind regards Jan ################### From: "Zachary Kaufman" Date: 16 Jan 1997 08:00:06 -0000 Subject: heating a terrarium To heat my lowland Nepenthes terrarium, I use a 50 watt, 6" submersible aquarium heater. The heater is in a one gallon glass fish bowl inside my terrarium. I have 14.5 feet of 1/4 inch aluminum tubing coilled up inside the bowl. I run an airline from an aquarium air pump to the aluminum tubing. A second line connects the opposite end of the tubing to an airstone inside the fish bowl. This works pretty well. I have to be careful that the water line in the fishbowl doesn't drop, exposing the heater. I lose a sizable amount of water to evaporation. Typically, I can go two days without adding water. When I do add, I change some of the water as well. I use R.O. water which is not entirely devoid of minerals. Failure to change some of the water would lead to mineral deposits on the heater and everywhere else in the bowl. I use a piece of plexiglass to ensure the coiled aluminum tubing doesn't bang against the aquarium heater. The plexiglass, nor anything else for that matter makes contact with the aquarium heater. Contact with the heater could result in uneven heating of the glass tubing incasing the heater leading to breakage. --Zachary-- --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- ################### From: Russell Elliott Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 18:12:37 -0800 Subject: Re: Heat DGoodr4319@aol.com wrote: > > Postage paid by: [Image] > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Hi All, > I have a tank in my basement and the temperture down there has hit lows of > 56 F. > Well , some of my plants are starting to show the effect of this( traps > dying ,leaves turning brown.) Does anyone know of a way to warm up the tank > that is inexpensive? > I guess I am looking for the temperture to be between 68 & 70 F, but > anything above 60 F would do. I know the smart thing to do is just bring the > plants upstairs but > I do not the room for the tank upstairs and I would lose my light source. > Besides I am the only one who has an interest in these plants. ( my younger > two find the VFT interesting but mine are "sleeping" and the other plants > just sit there as my kids say) > So the plants have to stay the in the basement. If anyone has an idea or two > please let me know. Thank-you > Doug Doug, One way is to place two bricks in the bottom of your aquarium, and place a mesh tray on them. Place an ordinary aquarium heater in at least three inches of water in the bottom, and the temprature and humidity will rise. You can also control the temprature via the little knob on the heater. I'll try to draw what I mean: **************************** lid (to conserve heat) * * * * place your plants on the tray. * * * * water about three * * * * inches deep * *.........mesh.............* *****-heater water *****brick **************************** **************************** Phew! I hope that diagram helps!! Bye For Now, Russell Elliott -- *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ! Russell Elliott ! ! Seed Bank Director, ! ! Australian Carnivorous Plant Society ! ! mailto:relliott@geocities.com ! ! mailto:elliott@nexus.edu.au ! *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ################### From: Fernando Rivadavia Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 22:17:29 +0900 (JST) Subject: December CPN: desperate!! To all, Generally, I have noticed that there is a race of sorts to see who receives CPN first and tells the others about it on the listserv. Only this time it unfortunately doesn't seem to have happened! I would like to remind you N.Americans (who probably receive it first) that the are a few desperate ones out here (well, I at least!) who simply don't have the patience or nerve control to wait for the CPN issues to arrive, knowing that others have already received it. So I would like to ask someone who has received it to please quench our thirst outside N America and give us a taste of what's in this latest issue. Thanxa million, Fernando Rivadavia Tokyo, Japan ################### From: takaicp@sh0.po.iijnet.or.jp Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 22:21:15 +0900 Subject: Konnichiwa! Konnichiwa Phil-san, Please, pardon my silence which you must not forgive. Because of my poor English skill, I understood that you were removing. And then,I thought I must know your new address. About H.tatei There is not vigor in them now. Especially, Marahuaca weakens very much. I send Huachamacari in the spring to you. If Marahuaca dies, I can not send it immediately. Because, it is the very last one. However, I have one Marahuaca in In-vitro. I increase and send it early to you as far as it is possible. At least You must not send Sarracenia seeds until you receive Huchamacari. I want to restore relation with you. I send Heliamphora seeds(very fresh native seed) to you as a proof of apologizes. Where should I send it? Kindest regards from Japan Isao ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Thu, 16 Jan 97 08:54:00 EST Subject: Re: cold and darlingtonia Hi Rand, You said in a previous email about Darlingtonia, >Keep the roots _cool_! Especially when it is in a growth spurt. I use ice cubes. >Rand in Canada Ice cubes in Canada sounds like overkill to me. I wonder what chance I have growing Darlingtonia in the Southern United States where we have 4 to 5 months of 80 and 90F weather in summer. I plan to find out. I have sprouting Darlingtonia seeds and once large enough, will transfer them to a Holman bog (which is nothing more than a deep hole lined with plastic, filled with growing media and water). The water level is maintained by placing holes a few inches below the surface. The Holman bog was developed to grow native North American terrestrial orchid (cyprepediums) that also have roots that are sensitive to heat. I also plan to grow a layer of live sphagnum moss to help cut down on sunlight heating the growing media. One thing I haven't decided yet is whether to put it in full sun or find some place in the yard that gets afternoon shade. What are my chances!!!! David ################### From: "Mgr.Ivo Koudela" Date: Thu, 16 Jan 97 15:35:12 CST Subject: gemmae of pygmy sundews available Hi to all sundew lovers, A friend of mine and a president of the Darwiniana (the Czech/Slovak CP society), Ondrej Stevko asked me to write his offer to the discussion. Well, he has spare gemmae of following pygmy sundews which he would like to swap for another CPs. Species available: D.paleacea ssp.paleacea D.paleacea ssp.paleacea 'Giant' D.nitidula ssp.allantostigma D.nitidula ssp.leucostigma D.nitidula ssp.omissa x D.occidentalis ssp.occidentalis D.nitidula ssp.allantostigma x D.ericksoniae D.nitidula ssp.omissa x D.pulchella D.ericksoniae D.oreopodion D.occidentalis ssp.australis D.pulchella 'almost white' D.pulchella 'orange' D.pycnoblasta D.dichrosepala D.roseana He also offers the seed and/or hibernacula of D.anglica'Raksa, Slovak Rep.' and D.indica 'W.Australia', D.glanduligera. Contact him at Ondrej Stevko T.Vansovej 1200/20 050 01 Revuca Slovak Republic With regards, Ivo ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:06:36 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: December CPN: desperate!! Hi all, > that others have already received it. So I would like to ask > someone who has received it to please quench our thirst outside N > America and give us a taste of what's in this latest issue. > > Thanxa million, > > Fernando Rivadavia Tokyo, Japan > (Fernando just wants to hear about his article ;-)!). Recalling what I can from memory, the December issue features a stand of S.leuco on the front (which has since been destroyed) and a stand of S.flava red tubed, red veined, green lid on the back. As for the contents. Peter D'Amato's article is on growing CP's in terrariums giving two possible set-ups as well as a list of suitable plants. There is a discription of a new Nepenthes species by Andreas Wistuba (I think), but I can't remember the name. Jan should know this one. Another article takes a look at two Mexican pings and how to cultivate them. There are several small articles on Darlingtonia culture as well as a CLODS article by Barry (quite amusing actually). Finally, there's Fernando's article on Drosera graminifolia (I think. I probably spelt it wrong too!). As well, there's an index for all articles in this volume of the CPN in the very back. That's all I could remember. If I forgot anything, please remind me. I just got it myself a couple of days ago. Regards, Chris Teichreb Department of Biology University of Regina Regina, Saskatchewan, CANADA teichrch@Meena.CC.URegina.CA ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 09:09:48 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: heating a terrarium Hi Zachary, > To heat my lowland Nepenthes terrarium, I use a 50 watt, 6" > submersible aquarium heater. The heater is in a one gallon > glass fish bowl inside my terrarium. I have 14.5 feet of 1/4 inch > aluminum tubing coilled up inside the bowl. I run an airline from > an aquarium air pump to the aluminum tubing. A second line connects > the opposite end of the tubing to an airstone inside the fish bowl. > This works pretty well. I have to be careful that the water line in the > fishbowl doesn't drop, exposing the heater. I lose a sizable amount > of water to evaporation. Typically, I can go two days without Do you cover the fish bowl? This might reduce evaporation considerably. Just my 0.02$ worth. Regards, Chris Teichreb Department of Biology University of Regina Regina, Saskatchewan, CANADA teichrch@Meena.CC.URegina.CA ################### From: Fernando Rivadavia Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 01:48:02 +0900 (JST) Subject: Utricularia humboldtii germination observations To all, Yesterday I went to Isao Takai's home, near Tokyo. Other than having had a fantastic dinner prepared by his lovely wife, we also had a great time discussing CPs. The main reason for my visit yesterday was to see some of the CPs that Shibata-san brought back from her latest trip to Venezuela. She was gonna go to Mt.Neblina (where H.tatei var.neblinae plus the strange D.meristocaulis are endemic), but unfortunately there was too much rain, and she ended up going to Akopan-tepui (a fantastically beautiful spot, according to Shibata-san). Among the live CPs she brought for Isao-san to cultivate were: D.arenicola var.arenicola, D.roraimae, H.minor, H.sp. (with longer pitchers and fewer hairs on the throat), B.reducta, B.hectioides, G.sp., U.quelchii "pink fl.", U.campbelliana, and U.humboldtii. Seed pods of U.humboldtii were collected and the day after Shibata-san returned to Japan she opened the pods and sowed the seeds on petri dishes together with Isao-san. Of the 3 pods, 1 contained large green seeds while the other 2 contained smaller whitish seeds (maybe immature). After they sowed the seeds, they went for lunch. Now the interesting part is that 3h later when they looked at the petri dishes again, they were covered with young seedlings which had apparently "popped" open from their coats. These seedlings are very curious. They have 6 arms in the shape of a 3D asterisk. At the tip of each of these 6 arms there is a further subdivision into 3 smaller arms. Isao-san told me these seedlings were 2mm in diameter on the 9th. When I saw them yesterday (15th) they were almost 5mm in diameter. Looking at them today under a microscope, I noticed that from the center of each seedling is emerging a small bud. These are also 3-tipped a are the initial 6 arms. Yet these are not connected at the same point. First there is one division, soon followed by the 2nd division. And together with this first leaf is the first trap! A few seedlings already have 2 traps. Isao-san offered a very interesting hypothesis for this quick germination and the shape of the seedlings. They could be adaptations to survival inside bromeliads. The quick germination may be necessary, since rains could probably easily wash out any small particles floating on the water in the leaf axils of the bromeliads. The many arms present on the seedlings could thus serve as hooks to grab on to whatever organic material may be lying inside the leaves of a bromeliad and assist in this struggle to set a foot in the bromeliad before it is washed out by the frequent rains in the region where it is native. While observing the seedlings today, I notice that they truly are very good at "grabbing" onto other objects. Now I would like to make a parallel with the closely related Brazilian U.nelumbifolia, which I found in Feb. of last year, right before mving to Japan. This species also grows inside bromeliads and is almost as large as U.humboldtii. Taylor does not mention it in his book, but seeds of U.nelumbifolia are also drawn by him as transparent sturctures inside which the embryo can be seen. Unfortunately I can not follow personally and study closely the U.nelumbifolia introduced into cultivation last year, but have heard a few reports from my friend Fabio, who is apparently having great success in cultivating them back home. His plants have flowered and even produced seeds (I don't know if he had to hand-pollinate them or not - the scapes we saw in the wild had no fruit for some reason). He reported that the seeds sown on normal CP compost did not germinate, while those sown in bromeliads did. Curiously, U.nelumbifolia seems to be restricted to bromeliads, unlike U.humboldtii which also occurs in swampy areas. I have no idea how fast the germination was for the U.nelumbifolia seedlings nor if they look like those of U.humboldtii. Fabio did send me some seeds, although these unfortunately did not germinate in the bromeliads at the botanic garden where my lab is. Maybe like U.humboldtii, the seeds of U.nelumbifolia are also only viable while they are still green. Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia Tokyo, Japan ################### From: Johannes.Marabini@t-online.de (Johannes Marabini) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 17:46:14 +0100 Subject: Re: N.burkei In addition to the discussion around Nepenthes burkei I will try to publish a photo of a N.burkei in my homepage, which I took ten years ago at the herbarium of Tokio University. The herbarium-material is from the Philippine National Herbarium. I was lucky to discuss with Mr. Kurata about this specie there. The main difference to N. ventricosa are the oblique mouth of N.burkei (N.ventricosa has almoust a horizontal mouth), the strongly contracted pitcher of N.ventricosa and the different nectar-glands under the peristom and lid. But you should be carfully as there are a few hybrids between N.ventricosa and N.alata, which were sold for N.burkei. Also the color is (though not so good) characteristic for the species: the pitchers of N. ventricosa is mainly yellowish-green outside, inside in the upper part red. N.burkei is orange-brown with light red stripes outside. I will inform you, when the photos are ready! Johannes -- Johannes Marabini Sperlingstrasse 10 91315 Hoechstadt/Aisch Germany Tel./Fax 49 9193 4866 @e-mail: mailto:Johannes.Marabini@t-online.de Homepage: ">johannes.marabini@t-online.de/index.htm">http://home.t-online.de/home/[5 56]johannes.marabini@t-online.de/index.htm ------------New Nepenthesphotos!!---------------------------------------------- ------------Updated 21.12.1996------------------------------------------------- ################### From: Heggood@aol.com Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 14:04:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: RO Unit critique Has anyone purchased the RO unit offered by California Carnivores @ $155.00 who would care to comment on their experience from purchase thru delivery thru installation, vendor support and satifaction level. Going in I'd have to give them some negative marks due to the fact that I requested more info while into their web site and have not received a response yet (I think 6 days now). Thanks, -steve- ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 14:56:05 -0600 (CST) Subject: U.arenaria Hi all, Can anyone give me a quick summary of growing media used, light, etc. for U.arenaria. Was this known by another name before as I could not find it anywhere except on a few web-pages. TIA. Happy growing, Chris Teichreb Department of Biology University of Regina Regina, Saskatchewan, CANADA teichrch@Meena.CC.URegina.CA ################### From: Oliver.Gluch@t-online.de (Oliver Gluch) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 97 22:19 +0100 Subject: RE: growlux vs cool white >Has anyone that grows CP under flourescent lights done any >studies to determine which is better; GROWLUX which claims >a more useful spectrum to plants or COOL-WHITE which appears >to have more light output? >-steve- Hi Steve, for about 3 years I use a mix of bulbs with warm-white flourescent light and cool-white light for cultivation of my Ping's. I have placed my plants about 15 cm below the bulbs. They grow fantastically and some species got even dark red leaves (like P. reticulata, P. moranensis 'rosei' or P. emarginata). Oliver in Germany ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Oliver Gluch Lindenallee 44 26122 Oldenburg Germany Phone/Fax: ++49-441-72618 eMail: Oliver.Gluch@t-online.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 16:27:55 -0600 (CST) Subject: RE: growlux vs cool white Hi Steve, > > >Has anyone that grows CP under flourescent lights done any > >studies to determine which is better; GROWLUX which claims > >a more useful spectrum to plants or COOL-WHITE which appears > >to have more light output? > >-steve- > I've used both bulbs for various types of plants. This includes aquarium plants which need a good spectrum of lighting and a good intensity due to the water interfering with light penetration. I've never found any plant that responded so much better to the gro-lux bulbs that it warranted the extra expense. IMHO, stick with the regular cool-whites. They look nice and your plants probably won't care. Regards, Chris Teichreb Department of Biology University of Regina Regina, Saskatchewan, CANADA teichrch@Meena.CC.URegina.CA ################### From: Steve Tatman Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 22:49:28 -0800 Subject: re:measuring restivity of water Hi Zachary With reference to your problems measuring water resistance: >I placed stainless steel >wire sperated at a fixed distance into some R.O. water produced >by the unit. I then attached my digital multimeter's leads >to the two pieces of stainless steel wire. To my surprise, >I did not get a steady resistance measurement diplayed on the >digital multimeter. Instead, the value kept climbing. This does sound like the effects of electrolysis as the gas builds up on the electrodes the measured resistance goes up. Somewhere I have an article describing a circuit that overcomes both this using short pulses of alternating current. If you are especially keen tell me and I will try to dig it out. Bretts point about oxides is probably also true although I know nothing about the oxidation chemistry of stainless steel. I suppose you could use platinum wires... but then you could probably buy several membranes for the same cash :-) I have looked at those simple pH meters that they sell at garden centres. Anyone tried them? I think they probably work by having a small galvanic current developed between two different metals. They are intended for dipping in every now and then but if you left the probe in constantly would you then have metal ions being discharged in to the water? I cant immagine cps enjoying that very much. The days are beginning to lengthen and there are green tentacled things unfurling indoors so lets hope we all thaw out soon. Cheers, Steve ################### From: dave evans Date: Thu, 16 Jan 97 20:03 EST Subject: Re: Re: No 'Kosobe'? Hi Jan, > > N: [Nepenthes * ' Kosobe ' {Hort. ex Hort.Bednar}] > > P: in sched. (1993) > > S: =[[Nepenthes mirabilis {(Lour.) Druce}] * [[Nepenthes rafflesiana {Jack}] * > > [Nepenthes ampullaria {Jack}]]] > > > > Who's name is that? > > This is exactly the question. Neither list entry refers to a proper > publication. The first is a nomen nudum (without description, only > synonym statement), the second is from informal communication (in > schedis, i.e. on herbarium or garden plant lables). So then, Bruce Bednar did make the cross, but he didn't publish the new cultivar name. Is that correct? The label for my 'Kosobe' should then read, "_N. * stewartii_ (Bednar '93)" until he, if ever, has a name for it published? > The first name used for the taxon (i.e. not specific cultivars) was > apparently N. * stewartii (1879). And the label for the N.wrigl*ey*ana ought to read: N. * stewartii cv. 'wrigleyana' That is, if I understand the rules so far... Dave E ################### From: Frank Udovicic Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:19:29 +1000 Subject: heat, was Re: cold and darlingtonia Hi David, > >Keep the roots _cool_! Especially when it is in a growth spurt. > >I use >ice cubes. > >Rand in Canada > > >Ice cubes in Canada sounds like overkill to me. I wonder what >chance I have growing Darlingtonia in the Southern United States >where we have 4 to 5 months of 80 and 90F weather in summer. After getting advice from this listserver I decided to try growing a cobra lily in September 1995. I'm in Canberra, Australai. It has grown great:) Last year I sent a detailed message describing how I grow them and I have that on a web page if you want to check it out... http://rubens.its.unimelb.edu.au/~franku/cobra.html. In summmary, we get a few months of roughly 77F to 86F during summer and mine are growing fine. I have never used ice cubes, but I water it every morning with cold water. >enough, will transfer them to a Holman bog (which is nothing more >than a deep hole lined with plastic, filled with growing media and >water). The water level is maintained by placing holes a few inches >below the surface. > The Holman bog was developed to grow native North American > terrestrial >orchid (cyprepediums) that also have roots that are sensitive to >heat. This sounds okay, here is what I do.... I have a large terracotta pot sitting in a large deep saucer. I water from the top until the cold water starts overflowing from the saucer. This way I know the roots have had plenty of cold water running past them and the water left in the saucer is cold too. >also plan to grow a layer of live sphagnum moss to help cut down on sunlight >heating the growing media. Yes, I do this, it seems to work in combination with the other things, ie the soil is noticeably cooler than in my neighbouring Sarracenias, in peat in black plastic pots. > One thing I haven't decided yet is whether to >put it in full sun or find some place in the yard that gets afternoon shade. Mine are in full sun and doing great. > What are my chances!!!! Good, if you are vigilant about watering them every day when it is hot. Good luck, Frank. ################### From: dave evans Date: Thu, 16 Jan 97 20:39 EST Subject: Re: Re: cold and darlingtonia > From: "Mellard, David" > > Ice cubes in Canada sounds like overkill to me. I wonder what chance I have > growing Darlingtonia in the Southern United States where we have 4 to 5 > months of 80 and 90F weather in summer. Hi David, If you consider that Canada has similar temps for a month (or two?) due to their very lloonngg days (16-18 hours of sun) and that the plants just about shut-down at root temps above 70~F., ice is a very good way to keep them going strong. > The Holman bog was developed to grow native North American terrestrial > orchid (cyprepediums) that also have roots that are sensitive to heat. I > also plan to grow a layer of live sphagnum moss to help cut down on sunlight > heating the growing media. One thing I haven't decided yet is whether to > put it in full sun or find some place in the yard that gets afternoon shade. Afternoon shade!!!! They don't grow well in full sun, even in their native habitat. Of course, you can see photos of them growing in full sun, but the rhizomes are well shaded by grasses, their own leaves and water. Someone once mentioned how plants growing in a sunny spot grew to only about six or eight inches while plants just little further downstream, in deeper shade, were growing to about three feet tall! Considering your climate, I'd think you can grow them, but you'll need to include a bottle of ice (2 or 3 liter) suspended above the Holman bog so the melt can keep the soil well below 80 degrees. The moss will be helpful too. Their ideal root temperture range is something like: 40-60~F. Even though summer was very mild, my plants stopped growing until just before the end October through to being frozen (current state). Seeing a new crop of pitchers come up right before Thanksgiving was a treat. :) Dave Evans ################### From: aquilla2@juno.com Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 20:49:46 EST Subject: Re: Sphagnum ID Perhaps of help to CP growers in N. America in the Identification of The Sphagnum mosses is the "Field Guide to the Peat Mosses of Boreal North America" by Cyrus B McQueen University of New England Press 1990 ISBN 0-87451-522-X " This book contains color photos 30 major species and field keys to nearly all species in the Northern Hemisphere. This new guide reveals an area of natural science previously available only to bryologists and those with extensive compound microscopes. McQueen's guide, used and tested for several years by botany students, provides all the tools needed to identify north American peat mosses in the field. It's unique combination of simple macroscopic keys, color Photographs, line drawings, and non technical descriptions quickly opens the world of Sphagnum species most frequently encountered in boreal regions of the U.S. and Canada to anyone with a hand lens, tweezers, and a metric ruler." Quoting from the back cover. Michael A. Sankovich ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 18:57:22 -0700 Subject: Contents of CPN Fernando wrote: >that others have already received it. So I would like to ask someone who >has received it to please quench our thirst outside N America and give us >a taste of what's in this latest issue. Fernando, At the very least, I have posted a list of the articles etc in CPN on CPN's web page. You can see it at the web page listed below. I intend to do this for each issue of CPN, mostly as a teaser to encourage subscribers. I'll update this page shortly after each issue is being dropped into the post. Barry CPN pages: http://www.indirect.com/www/bazza/cps/cpn/cpn.html http://mips3.as.arizona.edu/~barry/cps/cpn/cpn.html ################### From: aquilla2@juno.com Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 21:28:38 EST Subject: Re: December CPN Desperate!! To: Fernando Rivadavia, and all listserve subscribers; Contents of the CPN Newsletter for December are as follows: 1. The Savage Garden "The Potted Terrarium" by Peter D'Amato 2. Nepenthes lavicola, a new species of Nepenthaceae from the Aceh Province in the North of Sumatra by Andreas Wistuba 3. Two Interesting Mexicans: Pinguicula acuminata and Pinguicula macrophylla by Loyd Wix 4. How to grow Darlingtonia Californica by Michael Fantus 5. Darlingtonia by Joe Mazrimas 6. Darlingtonia Seeds by Larry Logoteta 7. Followup of Tuberous Drosera Propagation by Bruce Pierson 8. CLODS, Collectors, and Pseudo-Environmentalists by Barry Allan Meyers-Rice 9. The us of Tanic Teas in Carnivorous Plant Culture by Ron Sacilotto 10. The experimental growth trial for Royal Red VFT by Charles Clarke 11. Announcing New CPN Editors by Rick Walker 12. Cultivating CPs has many Surprises by Alan S. Jellson 13. Is the Most Beautiful Drosera in the World Brazilian? by Fernando Rivadavia 14. Goodbye Don by Joe Mazrimas Hope this helps with the Anticipation.. From Noreen Sankovich (Michael's better half). ################### From: Rick Hyde <">rah@netcom.com> Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 18:48:25 -0800 Subject: Re: "Death Trap" video, California Carnivores Re: "Death Trap" Chad, >Could anyone please tell me where I could obtain a VHS version of the >video "Death Trap"? This is a Time Life Nature series video offering. It is not listed specifically in their (terrible) web site. I'd call them at: 1-800-828-8575 and ask... It may also be available at your local video rental place... Re: California Carnivores & R.O Steve, >Has anyone purchased the RO unit offered by California Carnivores >@ $155.00 who would care to comment on their experience from >purchase thru delivery thru installation, vendor support and >satifaction level. > >Going in I'd have to give them some negative marks due to the fact >that I requested more info while into their web site and have not >received a response yet (I think 6 days now). > I'm afraid I cannot answer your question on R.O, since I live in an area where I don't need it. I've seen the unit, though, and it is a cute little thing... I was at California Carnivores last weekend. Peter and Merilee were both hard at work on their new book and repairing damage from the storm that swept through the area. The greenhouse was isolated for several days due to flooding. The entire Russian River area was (and still is) a real mess! I'm also under the impression that their net access is sporadic. Be patient and I'm sure your questions will be answered. The folks at California Carnivores are wonderful. I am sure you will receive many more testimonials from folks on the list. Cheers, Rick ################### From: blymn@awadi.com.au (Brett Lymn) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 13:41:21 +1030 (CST) Subject: Re: heat, was Re: cold and darlingtonia According to Frank Udovicic: > >In summmary, we get a few months of roughly 77F to 86F during summer and >mine are growing fine. I have never used ice cubes, but I water it every >morning with cold water. > Frank, You are lucky that you have the cooler weather - here in Adelaide on the plains I have not had much luck with cobras. They do fine for a while but seem to suffer during the summer (can have temps up to around 45 deg. C). People who live in the hills here seem to do much better with cobras. Currently I am trying again with a small cobra but this year, following a suggestion from the list, I have been freezing rainwater in a 2 litre plastic bottle and arranging the bottle of frozen water over the cobra's pot on hot days (say above 33 degrees C). At the moment the cobra seems to be doing very well with this arrangement, it gets nice cold water dripped onto it through the day as the ice in the bottle melts which seems to make the plant happy. -- Brett Lymn, Computer Systems Administrator, AWA Defence Industries =============================================================================== "Upgrading your memory gives you MORE RAM!" - ad in MacWAREHOUSE catalogue. ################### From: "Zachary Kaufman" Date: 17 Jan 1997 06:28:02 -0000 Subject: measuring resistivity of water Hi Steve. If gas bubles forming from the water disassociating is what is causing the meter reading to climb, shouldn't I be able to visibly see these bubbles after some time has gone by? In any event, I am interested in that circuit you mentioned. If you could scrounge it up, I'ld appreciate it. Thanks, --Zachary-- --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- ################### From: Gary Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 22:03:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: D. meristocaulis Hi everyone-- In CP Digest 962, Fernando Rivadavia mentioned in passing "the strange D.meristocaulis" endemic to Mt. Neblina. I'm not familiar with this species, and because I lack graphics capability with my Internet server, can someone please describe this specie's "strange"-ness? You have to understand, whenever I read D.*anything* and "strange" in the same sentence, my eyebrows raise and don't lower until my curiosity has been pacified. Ummm, it wouldn't happen to have heart-shaped leaves, would it? Gary ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 09:10:52 Subject: Re: U.arenaria Dear Chris, > (...) etc. for U.arenaria. Was this known by another > name before as I could not find it anywhere except on a few > web-pages. Obviously you have not searched the appropriate page yet. Try: http://www.hpl.hp.com/bot/cp_home (16 synonyms listed). Kind regards Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 09:08:21 Subject: Re: N.burkei Dear Johannes, > In addition to the discussion around Nepenthes burkei I will try to > publish a photo of a N.burkei in my homepage, which I took ten years ago > at the herbarium of Tokio University. The herbarium-material is from the > Philippine National Herbarium. I was lucky to discuss with Mr. Kurata > about this specie there. (...) But you should be careful as the type specimen of _N.burkei_ is deposited at K (!photo; it rather exactly matches the illustration in Gard.Chron. and the protologue by Masters), and certainly not from the same collection as the specimen you have seen in TI. Kind regards Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 09:11:55 Subject: too much 'Kosobe'! Dear Dave, > > > N: [Nepenthes * ' Kosobe ' {Hort. ex Hort.Bednar}] > > > P: in sched. (1993) > > > S: =[[Nepenthes mirabilis {(Lour.) Druce}] * [[Nepenthes rafflesiana {Jack}] * > > > [Nepenthes ampullaria {Jack}]]] > > > > > > Who's name is that? > > > > This is exactly the question. Neither list entry refers to a proper > > publication. The first is a nomen nudum (without description, only > > synonym statement), the second is from informal communication (in > > schedis, i.e. on herbarium or garden plant lables). > > So then, Bruce Bednar did make the cross, but he didn't publish > the new cultivar name. Is that correct? I rather think he received the cross from Japan (I do not know who made it). Bruce Bednar made (or at least distributed) the name. > The label for my 'Kosobe' > should then read, "_N. * stewartii_ (Bednar '93)" until he, if ever, > has a name for it published? Apparently a new name is needed for this clone (because "Kosobe" is a later homonym) if it is to be regarded as a cultivar. As long as this is not available, your lable proposal seems sensible. > > The first name used for the taxon (i.e. not specific cultivars) was > > apparently N. * stewartii (1879). > > And the label for the N.wrigl*ey*ana ought to read: > N. * stewartii cv. 'wrigleyana' Is "wrigleyana" treated like a cultivar in the horticultural trade? If so, the combination above would be correct (but with capital "W"). I have not yet seen a lable like that in a collection, however. Kind regards Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 09:25:38 Subject: Re: _D. meristocaulis_ Dear Gary, > In CP Digest 962, Fernando Rivadavia mentioned in passing "the strange > D.meristocaulis" endemic to Mt. Neblina. I'm not familiar with this > species, The problem is, very few people do know this species, and approximately nobody is really familiar with it because it is at least difficult (for political, military, transportational, and meteorological reasons) to reach the Neblina peak. > can someone please describe this specie's "strange"-ness? It has three undivided styles like e.g. the S Af _D. regia_ or several of the Au members of Bryastrum ("pygmies"). Thus it appears to be very old and one of the most primitive species in the genus _Drosera_ (this is also suggested by its relict habitat which is home to other living fossils). Moreover, the species has branched stems, which has led Maguire & Wurdack to a comparison with _Drosophyllum_ (which was perhaps too far-fetched). > Ummm, it wouldn't happen to have heart-shaped leaves, would it? I think I must disappoint you in this respect. Kind regards Jan ################### From: blymn@awadi.com.au (Brett Lymn) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 20:17:21 +1030 (CST) Subject: Re: measuring resistivity of water According to Zachary Kaufman: > >If gas bubles forming from the water disassociating is >what is causing the meter reading to climb, shouldn't I >be able to visibly see these bubbles after some time has gone by? > That depends on how much current is being put through the water, if the water is flowing and hence carrying the gases away. I would not expect that you would see very much gas at all since the current used would be fairly low. -- Brett Lymn, Computer Systems Administrator, AWA Defence Industries =============================================================================== "Upgrading your memory gives you MORE RAM!" - ad in MacWAREHOUSE catalogue. ################### From: martin zevenbergen Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:20:20 +0100 (CET) Subject: re: U. arenaria >Hi all, > > Can anyone give me a quick summary of growing media >used, light, etc. for U.arenaria. Was this known by another >name before as I could not find it anywhere except on a few >web-pages. TIA. Chris, I grow mine just under standard conditions for terrestrial Utrics: a mixture of peat, perlite, Sphagnum and some sand. In the greenhouse they get rather high temperatures now (min.18 degr. C during the day) and some extra light in winter, but I think they will do also very well under cooler conditions. Good luck! Martin Zevenbergen Dept. of Plant taxonomy Agricultural University P.O. box 8010 6700 ED Wageningen The Netherlands martin.zevenbergen@algem.pt.wau.nl ################### From: takaicp@sh0.po.iijnet.or.jp Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 20:32:34 +0900 Subject: Hello In-vitro workers again To all, I must apologize to you for sending a private e-mail( to Mr.Pil Wilson) to you. It was very careless of me. I thought that his e-mail came directly from him. And then, I had clicked "answering a transmission person". I am very sorry. To In-vitro workers(who I don't know yet), Both Ms.Shibata's and my wish is that a lot of cpers grow interesting plants. Your cooperation is indispensable for it. Those seeds are free. Only, the condition is that you divide offsprings among your friends in the district or the friends (if possible) in the world. And then, to divide your offspring among us(Ms.Shibata&I) when(if) we need. Please, contact to me without the reserve (directly 8) ). To In-vitro workers who contacted me already, I will send a few information to you in advance. Please, wait for a while. kind regards from Japan Isao ################### From: Heggood@aol.com Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 07:36:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Resistive measurements >Hi Zachary >With reference to your problems measuring water resistance: >>I placed stainless steel >>wire sperated at a fixed distance into some R.O. water produced >>by the unit. I then attached my digital multimeter's leads >>to the two pieces of stainless steel wire. To my surprise, >>I did not get a steady resistance measurement diplayed on the >>digital multimeter. Instead, the value kept climbing. Iwould be tempted to tear open 2 drycell flashlight batteries, extract the carbon rods and try them as electrodes. I doubt if the carbon would promote electrolysis, but I wouldn't guarantee it. -steve- ################### From: blymn@awadi.com.au (Brett Lymn) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 23:19:59 +1030 (CST) Subject: Re: Resistive measurements According to Heggood@aol.com: > >Iwould be tempted to tear open 2 drycell flashlight batteries, extract >the carbon rods and try them as electrodes. I doubt if the carbon >would promote electrolysis, but I wouldn't guarantee it. > Nope - you would be wasting your time. Electrolysis done by the current passing through the water pulling apart the chemical bonds. Oh, and if you were to open up any batteries make sure they are not alkaline cells - the anode and cathode materials are reversed which means no carbon rod :-) -- Brett Lymn, Computer Systems Administrator, AWA Defence Industries =============================================================================== "Upgrading your memory gives you MORE RAM!" - ad in MacWAREHOUSE catalogue. ################### From: Carlstrom_Rick@amelnx.advmar.com Date: Fri, 17 Jan 97 07:08:38 EST Subject: PH Meters It has been my experience that those cheap pH meters sold in garden centers (about $20 US) are really worthless crap. I would get wildly fluctuating readings on the same sand/peat mix all the time. I somtimes would get pH's of 9 or 10 in pure distilled water. I also got basic reading from tomato juice which is acidic. IMHO if you are serious about measuring Ph you need a real lab grade pH meter. However, these are expensive. Rick ################### From: isenberg@eva.cs.Uni-Magdeburg.DE (Tobias Isenberg) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:48:59 +0100 (MET) Subject: Florida: Thanks for information Tom and Jay, Thanks very much for your help. > Just remember (obligatory disclaimer) that all plants are protected w/in the > boundaries of the forest, all sarracenia are protected in Florida (I believe) > and P. ionantha is a federally endangered species. The only CP hunting and taking home with me tool will be my Canon EOS 500. Probably I'll set up a small web page with some pictures of plants I saw on the trip. At least I think I'll give a short report. Tobias from Germany -- Tobias Isenberg "Very funny, Scotty. isenberg@sunpool.cs.uni-magdeburg.de Now beam up my clothes!" http://www.cs.uni-magdeburg.de/~isenberg ################### From: MPM7347@ACS.TAMU.EDU Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 7:20:05 -0600 (CST) Subject: Gen. Procedures Hello again .. sorry I have been gone .. I have a few more gen. questions: -when using all-purpose sand containing silica, is it necessary to rinse it? also, where is 100% silica sand available in small bag quantities? I have only seen it at sand and gravel companies ie. by the truckload. - also, does anybody know where I may find large quantities of smaller sphagnum species (living)? Thanks Mike ################### From: Nigel Hurneyman Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:46:49 -0000 Subject: Be A CLOD Reputable botanic gardens are becoming much more ethical about recognising the rights of countries to profit from their native flora. For a hobbyist wishing to obtain material from a botanic garden, that means filling in forms giving undertakings not to profit from the material. For a hobbyist wishing to donate to a botanic garden, that means having evidence that the material was legally collected, and having very specific locality details from the original collection. Material in hobby collections therefore has a higher conservation value if precise locality information is known. Regards, NigelH ################### From: jaldr@onramp.net (James Aldridge) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:39:36 GMT Subject: Re: PH Meters On Fri, 17 Jan 1997 05:04:44 -0800, you wrote: >IMHO if you are=20 >serious about measuring Ph you need a real lab grade pH meter. =20 In tissue prop work, I use a pH meter which has a solid-state probe. It's= very durable and accurate, but it was pricey - about $600. James Aldridge - Fort Worth, Texas, USA jaldr@onramp.net or aldrjame@tenet.edu http://rampages.onramp.net/~jaldr ################### From: Sean Barry Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 08:00:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: PH Meters > On Fri, 17 Jan 1997 05:04:44 -0800, you wrote: > > >IMHO if you are > >serious about measuring Ph you need a real lab grade pH meter. > Corning and a few other companies sell "pocket" pH meters through Fisher Scientific and other scientific suppliers, and these range from about $40 to $100. The lower priced meters are accurate only to 0.2 unit, and the higher end to 0.1, which is probably not critical for those of us who just want to measure pH rather than adjust it. I have used one of these meters for several years to measure aquarium water pH, and have verified their accuracy by measuring the same samples on the $1000 meter in my lab. No complaints. Also available are conductivity meters, in the same or slightly lower price range, which will tell you how much if any dissolved salts are in your water. The one I use is a Hanna Instruments DIST 1ATC dissolved solids tester (same sources), which measures from 10 to 1990 ppm, with a resolution of 10 ppm. I believe that lower-range meters are also available. Sean Barry ################### From: "" Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:13:49 +0000 Subject: Re: virus-warning On 17 Jan 97 at 9:03, tx321aj@sunmail.lrz-muenchen. wrote: > > If you get a email-message with the subject: GOOD TIMES, delete it=20 > immediately. Do not download or read the message! The virus will trash=20 > your computer after he has sent automatically to any of your=20 > email-adresses. This virus is, so I=B4m told, very dangerous. =20 > > Happy computing! Klaus > =20 > > Dear Klaus. In fact the "virus" is the message you sent;-) The whole thing is a hoax around for years now on the internet. There is NO GOOD TIMES virus. Bye, Andreas Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Phone: +49-621-705471 / +49-621-7152027 Fax: +49-621-7152028 E-Mail: andreas.wistuba@rhein-neckar.de WWW: http://www.rhein-neckar.de/~carnivor/index.html ################### From: "Craig S. Gardner" Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 09:55:54 -0800 Subject: Re: RO Unit critique and Darlingtonia California Carnivores does not have a computer so the E-MAIL can be slow at times to get a response just give the a little time they will hopefully have a computer soon. Youu can also call them and get an answer to your questions the number is (707)838-1630 >Topic No. 16 > >Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 14:04:10 -0500 (EST) >From: Heggood@aol.com >To: cp@opus.hpl.hp.com >Subject: RO Unit critique >Message-ID: <970116133630_1176827943@emout19.mail.aol.com> > >Has anyone purchased the RO unit offered by California Carnivores >@ $155.00 who would care to comment on their experience from >purchase thru delivery thru installation, vendor support and >satifaction level. > >Going in I'd have to give them some negative marks due to the fact >that I requested more info while into their web site and have not >received a response yet (I think 6 days now). > >Thanks, >-steve- The native stands of Darlingtonia I have seen the plants growing in direct sun the plants tend to be shorter than those growing in the shade. the coloration is also different those in strong sun having a lot of yellow in the hoods with deep red viens in the shade they tend to be deeper green. -- Happy Growing Craig S. Gardner 173 Perry St. Ukiah Ca. 95482 ################### From: Phil Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 22:51:43 GMT Subject: Re: Albany Pitcher Plants In your message dated Wednesday 15, January 1997 you wrote : > Does Anyone know of a UK supplier of albany pitcher plants? > I have been after one for some time now but ordering overseas is not really > possible for a poor Phd student. > > Cheers Andy > Try one of the following. Marston Exotics - Can't remember the address but someone will have it. SouthWest Carnivores 2, Rose Cottages Millmoor Culmstock Devon Tel. 01884 841549 Plants from neither source will be large and I doubt whether either of them will ship until the spring anyway. -- Phil Wilson (cp@pwilson.demon.co.uk) ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 20:01:09 +0100 Subject: Re: cold and darlingtonia On 14 Jan 97 at 18:19, Zachary Kaufman wrote: > If the media froze, have I lost the plant? > wishing I'ld brought the cobra lily indoors last night, As others have said, the plant should be fine. Darlingtonia is tough - probably considerably more so than most Sarracenia. I left mine outside (but undercover) in the UK last year and they froze several times. This year I'm Wintering them in the greenhouse, but not because of any fear of losing them - I just wanted growth to start a bit sooner in the Spring. -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 20:09:45 +0100 Subject: Re: VFT seeds On 13 Jan 97 at 20:07, Carl Mazur wrote: > The only place where I know to buy large quantities of VFT seed is > [snip] I don't know how large a 'large' quantity is, but last year I must have collected many hundred from my few plants (I sent most of them to people on the list a few weeks ago). I don't usually get this much seed - it must have been a good year. I'm just suggesting that people leave the flower stems on their VFTs, rather than removing them as is often suggested - I bet you won't notice any difference in the health of the plants. -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 15:40:10 -0700 Subject: help me find Lubomir Adamec Barry here, I am trying to contact Lubomir Adamec via email. Does anyone have his address? I tried hauser@omega.jh.jcu.cz but apparently this is incorrect. Please email to me at bazza@indirect.com Thanks! Barry ################### From: Brian Millar Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 18:14:14 -0500 Subject: Help How do I Remove CP from my email.. I can not remember the procedure for requesting help. Thanks ################### From: dave evans Date: Fri, 17 Jan 97 22:18 EST Subject: Re: too much 'Kosobe'! Hello Jan, > > The label for my 'Kosobe' > > should then read, "_N. * stewartii_ (Bednar '93)" until he, if ever, > > has a name for it published? > > Apparently a new name is needed for this clone (because "Kosobe" is > a later homonym) if it is to be regarded as a cultivar. As long as > this is not available, your lable proposal seems sensible. Oh, I didn't realize that it had come from Japan! Perhap's the name was published over there? > > And the label for the N.wrigl*ey*ana ought to read: > > N. * stewartii cv. 'wrigleyana' > > Is "wrigleyana" treated like a cultivar in the horticultural trade? > If so, the combination above would be correct (but with capital "W"). > I have not yet seen a lable like that in a collection, however. Me either! But then, I have not seen a plant labled N. * stewartii... I'm assuming the plant I have is from the later cross which was then named N. * wrigleyana. So should I just lable it N. * stewartii or N. * stewartii cv. 'Wrigleyana'? Like you said, these later names could be used as cultivar names since they were published before the rules were, uh, "clarified". So do I follow the rules and use a name nobody's heard of or do I ignore them like most everyone else (so it seems). Dave Evans ################### From: "Christoph A. Belanger" <105601.512@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 08:12:50 -0500 Subject: U. arenaria Chris, I grew this plant several years ago and grew it in a peat/sphagnum/sand mixture. However, I would caution against using perlite. I have found that it sometimes has growth inhibiting qualities for Utricularia. It is (if I remember correctly)closeley related to U. livida and grows in similar condiditions except that mine was an annual. So make sure you harvest some seed before all the flowers are gone. Christoph ################### From: "Christoph A. Belanger" <105601.512@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 12:33:51 -0500 Subject: new home page Just wanted to let people know that my home page URL has changed the new URL is http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/burbidgea/carnivor.htm The one at the aol is no longer in service. Just as an FYI Christoph ################### From: thanley@why.net (thanley) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 15:19:43 +0000 Subject: heat, was Re: cold Frank Udovicic - Darlingtonia >Mine are in full sun and doing great. > What are my chances!!!! > Good, if you are vigilant about watering them every day when it is > > hot. > Good luck, Frank, Hello I am not an expert, but let me tell you what I have done and plan to do: First I live in Dallas, Texas. Summers can get to 100+ for many days. I have a "colony" of cobra lily living in my out door bog wirh no special gimicks except... I have a 2 bogs. The small one (4'x 3'x 1' deep) built up on legs like a deep table. It is covered by a frame and plexiglass with sliding doors for the winter. In this bog I grow all the non sarrs. Things that are delicate. It can be temperature controlled in winter. But back to my story. Last year I decided to start Nepenthes. When I realized that the glassed in walls, especially the back was wasted space. I built 2 box planters (4' x 8" x 4") long and thin. I filled these will orchid mix, dry chilian sphagnum and live sphagnum for the upper half. Into this I planted about 12 nepenthes, 1 Heliamphora nutans, and 2 COBRA LILYs. I obtained them from Lee's botanical and both were nicely developed 4" tall. One had several small pitchers instaed of just large ones. To make a long story short, the big one never took at all. The small one slowly took off. It's bigger pitchers died back, but the plant has formed a dense thriving colony of plants about 3" tall so far. I knew that the evaporation in the sphagnum would cause a natural cooling. The planters get a couple hours of direct light and the rest of the day the sun filters through a 25% shade cloth. This year I have a bigger problem. After kidding with my sister-in-law, She returned from Seattle with a beautiful 15" tall Cobra Lily for christmas. My first method must now be expanded due to space considerations. I plan on one of two new methods of even cooling. 1. to move water through underground tubing using the coolness of the earth as a load to dump heat and evenly moderate the temperature of the water which is circulated around or through the soil. There are a lot of mechanical issues here. 2. To obtain a office water cooler mechanism (one needing rebuilt outsides or something) and alter it some how. I also Hope this can be operated cost effectively. Both methods have advantages and disadvantages, BUT BOTH CAN OPERATE WITH SOME DEGREE OF AUTONOMY. I for one am not able to put ice on things ect, twice a day. While other methods work for other people, my job causes me to stay at work for massive O.T. alot. I do check the bog twice a day, but for Cobra lilys regularity in temp seems to be the key. An autonomous systems is the only answer for me. Right now we have had many nights of 15-20\260F and all of my plants are doing well outside thanks to many of my auto systems built with off- the-shelf "stuff" I put together. Tell me what you think tom hanley ################### From: thanley@why.net (thanley) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 15:35:42 +0000 Subject: Re: death traps video in hand > Chad, > > >Could anyone please tell me where I could obtain a VHS version of the > >video "Death Trap"? The death traps program was first aired as a PBS Nature episode narrated by George Page. It is an excellant program and I would like to visit or contact the collections in the program. I live in Dallas, Texas and just called me local PBS affiliate (KERA Ch13). They set me up with it over the phone using credit card. It was origionally produced by WGBH Boston. Another highly recommended video is The Secret Life of Bogs. It is an Episode of The Nature of Things with David Sizuki. Bye Tom ################### From: L235@aol.com Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:37:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Help >How do I Remove CP from my email.. I can not remember the procedure for >requesting help. >Thanks I'd recommend tapping your computer sharply several times against a hard object. This helps loosen the media. Then, carefully holding the stem, rhizome, whatever (you weren't specific in which cp you were trying to remove), gently turn over. The media should come away from the roots, leaving you with an easily-transplantable CP, and a clean e-mail system. (Now, I'm curious as to how you got CP to grow in your e-mail in the first place. are you a particularly acidic computer correspondent?) Sorry couldn't help it. Jay Lechtman (L235@aol.com) "People who live in glass houses should grow CP" ################### From: diane Lehman Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 21:34:04 -0500 Subject: instructions Hello, I was wondering if you send me another set of instructions(Help,sending address for cp listserve,ETC.).Because I lost all my files due to a virus my computer had. Any help is appreciated.Thank You. Sincerely, Josh Lehman ################### From: "A. Griesser" Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 23:16:57 +0000 Subject: Genlisea aurea growth conditions Could some one clue me in on how to grow Genlisea aurea? I have two tiny seedlings (about 2 mm tall) that have not grown in months. They are in a mix of peat, long fiber sphagnum, and sand. I keep it very moist. They are on a window sill in an eastern exposure at about 70F. ################### From: syyeo@singnet.com.sg Date: Sun, 19 Jan 97 13:51:20 PST Subject: Albany Pitcher Plant Source in UK Hello UK CP growers, You may wish to contact the followings for the above. Sarracenia Nurseries Links Side Courtland Ave MillHill London NW7 3BG Tel: 081-959-1570 Marston Exotics Brampton Lane Madley, Hereford, HR2 9LX Tel: 0981-251-140 Fax: 0981-251-649 Regards and good growing, Joseph. ################### From: j.dewitte@t-online.de (John De Witte) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 12:20:01 +0000 Subject: burkei Here my bit on the n. burkei discussion. I took a dive in the greenhouse to have a look at the survivors after the recent dry period (low external humidity at extreme low temperatures plus central heating caused almost desert conditions, with plants showing wrinkled leaves). Lost a couple of small ones but the majority survives and is generating side-shoots. Funny how extreme conditions almost seem to force the nepenthes to reproduce asexxually. So much for the situation report. Yes I have a plant labelled "n. burkei" and I still remember where it came from, so Jan can maybe confirm the correctness of the labelling. It even has pitchers, confirming Johannes Marabini's description. I might be able to catch an electronic camera, take a picture and post it to whoever wants it. Alternative, I will make the ultime sacrifice and join the main stream in getting a home-page. (in fact most of the nepenthes we pictured during our travels in SE-Asia are being burned on CD - bad experience with durability of true colors on slides -) The question is: will it be a Harley page with a bit of CP, or a nepenthes page with a bit of HD ????? John De Witte j.dewitte@t-online.de fax +49-7844-98997 ################### From: Chris Marsden <100620.2156@CompuServe.COM> Date: 19 Jan 97 15:09:09 EST Subject: Catopsis plant Hi All, My Catopsis plant is now flowering (or in bud), and I wondered if anyone has any idea what to do with it now. It's been tied onto a twig in my terrarium for about 6 months now, with it's roots 'planted' in Live sphagnum (in fact the roots were in mid air: they wouldn't stay in the sphagnum) and now I've shoved it in a pot in the terrarium (again in Live sphagnum). The scape is about 3 inches long and there are 5 or 6 individual buds. I have been told the flowers will be white, but can anyone give me information with regards to pollination procedure (is it single sex - pardon the entire lack of scientific knowledge here) and what I should do from now on? It has been in typical highland Nepenthes temperatures and humidity. Also I wonder if anyone can help me as to its identity (I know it is not a true CP :-) ). It was sold to me as Tillandsia Catopsis (and I was told it was carnivorous :-[)) - I took this as a synonym for Catopsis##. It's a strange looking plant, not dissimilar but a bit more leggy than the photo in Cheers' book. I got it from somewhere called 'The tropical rainforest' at an RHS show in Shrewsbury last year - 3 pounds 50p (about $5). TIA. Kind Regards, Toby ################### From: Pavlo2@aol.com Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 16:17:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: Personal preference? I am going to be planting my first CPs soon, and I really want to do this right. So, I was wondering... what is the best mix of soil for D. rotundifolia and S.leucophylla. Is there any mixes that are best; I think everyone has there own opinion on this, but I was just wondering. Also, is it still possible to purchase the books 'Carnivorous Plants' and 'The World of Carnivorous Plants'? Thanks. Ryan Pavl-vicz ################### From: Hurrellaj@aol.com Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 18:10:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: Any Nepenthes enthusiasts in E. Malaysia? Hi all A friend of mine, Stan Lampard, also from the UK, is making a trip to Sabah and Sarawak around this coming Easter. He is very keen on meeting up with any Nepenthes enthusiasts out there, especially as it is his first trip to SEA. I shall pass on any replies straight to Stan. Cheers Andy Hurrell ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 07:53:29 Subject: Re: too much 'Kosobe'! Dear Dave, > Me either! But then, I have not seen a plant labled N. * stewartii... > I'm assuming the plant I have is from the later cross which was > then named N. * wrigleyana. So should I just lable it N. * stewartii > or N. * stewartii cv. 'Wrigleyana'? Like you said, these later > names could be used as cultivar names since they were published > before the rules were, uh, "clarified". The rules we are talking about at the moment were first established in 1953. The plants concerned were described more than fifty years earlier. > So do I follow the rules and use a name nobody's heard of or do I > ignore them like most everyone else (so it seems). This is your decision. I can only tell you what (IMHO) the rules would recommend you to do. Nobody can be forced to follow the rules but at the same time noone can force me to accept bogus from "outlaws". Kind regards Jan ################### From: Fernando Rivadavia Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:55:55 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: U.arenaria Chris, > Can anyone give me a quick summary of growing media >used, light, etc. for U.arenaria. Was this known by another >name before as I could not find it anywhere except on a few >web-pages. TIA. I'd prefer to know a killing media for this species!! I don't know which strain you have or how many strains there are going around, but my suggestion to you is: KILL it before it's too late!!! That is, unless you like to see a Utric take over every single pot you have. Just imagine a more virulent strain of U.subulata which produces larger leaves as well as thicker and more numerous scapes, and you'll have an idea of what this species is like. The leaves are about the same as those of U.subulata, only about 2-3X wider and a dark green color. The flowers are white with purplish marks. In fact, I've found a small variety of U.pubescens in Brazil which had almost identical flowers. I think Peter Taylor even mentions in his book that these 2 species are closely related. I originally got U.arenaria in 1990 from a Mr.(Mrs.?) Blair S.Couper from the Natal Province, South Africa (who disappeared and never wrote back, which was a tremendous pity since he/she was often going on CP collecting trips in his area and had found some interesting CPs). He/she collected it at a waterfall and sent it to me with no name (I later identified it through Taylor's book). Though Blair warned me about the pest it would become, but I payed no attention, thinking a cute species like that would never bother me if it became a weed. Only I underestimated it and also forgot that the result of so many cute flowers are endless dried scapes and countless leaves spreading all over and eliminating smaller Utrics. Around 2 years after I obtained this species, it was beyond control in my collection, growing in almost every pot. Good Killing, Fernando Rivadavia Tokyo, Japan ################### From: Fernando Rivadavia Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:55:26 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: G.aurea Dear A.Griesser, >Could some one clue me in on how to grow Genlisea aurea? >I have two tiny seedlings (about 2 mm tall) that have not >grown in months. They are in a mix of peat, long fiber >sphagnum, and sand. I keep it very moist. They are on a >window sill in an eastern exposure at about 70F. HA! I didn't even know the seeds of this species were capable of germinating! You're the first lucky one I hear of who has carried out this miracle. I was never able to germinate G.aurea seeds I brought back from the wild, but I can't say I tried much either. After all, why worry about seeds when you have the actual plants. Especially if you're already spending too much time worrying about how to keep the plants themselves alive. So I would send out almost all the seeds I could lay my hands on (the seeds you got most likely came to you indirectly from one of my collections in the wild), especially because it was not often that I'd find flowering plants in the wild, much less seeds, although it is a very common and widespread species. G.aurea must be one of the most difficult CPs to cultivate and I think the secret to doing so is to either own a piece land where it grows naturally in some distant highland of Brazil or you need to have special superpowers. Seriously though, it would usually be the first species to croak for me after being brought into cultivation from the wild. Often they never even made it back home or died in less than a week! I think the maximum I've been able to keep a plant in cultivation was one year, but if they survived the first month it was already something worth commemorating. Only once, I believe, was I able to get one to actually flower in cultivation. G.aurea has beautiful, large, golden-yellow flowers, which are probably the largest in the genus. It probably is also the record holder in this genus in regards to number of leaves per rosette (the longest leaves are probably found in G.guianensis while G.uncinata most likely has the DAMEND longest + thickest flower scapes and largest traps). The leaves of G.aurea are very thin and up to 5cm long. Usually only the tips of the leaves are visible at soil level and these are so numerous that they form circles around 5cm in diameter. Each rosette is composed of dozens, maybe hundreds of leaves. Each leaf is coated with a thick, clear gelatinous substance of dubious function. Wildfire protection? Pest protection? G.aurea is native to highlands in Brazil, S of the Amazon Basin, from 500-2500m altitude (quick estimate from the top of my head). It prefers growing around wet spots like seepages or streams which are perennially wet. I have seen a few rare sites which dried up in the winter (dry season), but in this case the plants suffered very much. In one case, all died off during a very dry winter and none were found the following season. There is usually a thin film of water flowing over and through the soil where these plants are found, sometimes there are even several centimeters of water above the rosettes. The soil is usually a black humus, often with some sand. The water in its marshy habitats is usually very cold, keeping the plants cool even during very hot weather. Although I do know one site (in W Brazil, same place where I first found U.biovularioides growing among aquatic D.communis, mentioned in my CPN article) where the water temperature was always warm, if not actually hot, when the sun was out. I've visited that spot several times and it was always like that. So water temperature may no be too important, as long as it's constantly flowing. Well, hope this helps! Good luck!! Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia Tokyo, Japan ################### From: Fernando Rivadavia Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 19:53:40 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: thanks Barry, >Fernando, > > >I wanted to thank you for the fantastic articles you've been >printing for CPN. I hope you keep them coming. Perhaps you and >Isao-san would be interested in sketching out the ideas you are >generating regarding utricularia germination? > > >Cheers > > >Barry I believe this article in the December CPN was the last of a series I sent, maybe in '95(?). I was eagerly expecting it to come out mostly because the longer they take to be published, the more outdated they become and the more I hate them for lacking important info and especially for sounding childish to my rapidly-progressing knowledge on these native Brazilian plants (after all, before coming to Japan last year I was going on CP trips almost every month!). Thus the reason for my "desperate" querry about the latest CPN issue. I've been planning to write up several more, and have even promised to send some to the British, German, and French societies too. But unfortunately I have to admit I haven't found the time to sit down and do so, even though I'm planning SHORT articles on the numerous species I saw during my travels in Brazil. For example, I'm dying to write something about the fantastic U.nelumbifolia, the gigantic G.uncinata, the complex G.violacea, the albino U.longifolia, the beautiful D.chrysolepis, the first natural Drosera hybrids in S.America, maybe the first true case of an Utric hybrid, the Brazilian Drosera which actually go dormant as roots during the dry season as the S.African species do, the unique G.aurea, the odd U.cucullata, etc., etc., etc. It's a multitude of interesting plants which could clog up CP newsletters for a few years (and risk getting threats to stop sending in articles about those 'darned Brazilian CPs!!'). I just need to find the time, and will, to sit down and read through my diaries, to extract all the useful info on each one. I thought I would have more time once I got settled down in Japan, but now I've been here almost one year and am still running around all the time. Oh well, I guess I should really make an effort to put this stuff down in an orderly fashion and spread it around through these newsletters to those who don't have access to this listserve, where I've been "publishing" all the info I have on these plants. I'll take that as a 'New Year's Resolution' for 1997, OK? Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia Tokyo, Japan P.S. I'll be going to Brazil next month for vacation and am planning to spend most of my time there going after CPs, including already-visited locations and new ones too. More details about that soon..... ################### From: uzsb09@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de (Jens Rotthauwe) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 06:17:38 -0800 Subject: Pinguicula identification Hi ! I have two questions concerning Pinguicula species: 1) Is there an easy way of identifying P. moranensis ? Although all my plants labelled moranensis looked the same in summer they started forming two groups in winter: In one group th new leaves are almost folded and become plain as they get older - in the other they are always plain. 2) How can I tell P. vulgaris from P.alpina in winter ? Thanks for your help Jens ---------------- ---------------------------- Jens Rotthauwe Tel.:0228-642161 Im Erlengrund 21 e-mail: 53347 Alfter uzsb09@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de GERMANY ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 09:07:59 -0600 (CST) Subject: Microcosmos Hi all, This may have been discussed before, so please forgive my ignorance! On Friday we went and saw this movie called 'Microcosmos' at the public library. Made by a group in France, it basically takes an insects perspective of the world. Fascinating close-up photography, I'd definitely recommend it. Yes, it does have a single CP in it (D.rotundifolia) which they film an extreme close-up of it catching an insect and curling around it. Even without that part, it's still a great movie (no, I'm not being payed to endorse it either!). Regards, Chris Teichreb Department of Biology University of Regina Regina, Saskatchewan, CANADA teichrch@Meena.CC.URegina.CA ################### From: "Phil Semanchuk" pj@glaxowellcome.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jan 97 15:18:01 -0500 Subject: Re: PH Meters > It has been my experience that those cheap pH meters > sold in garden centers (about $20 US) are > really worthless crap. I would get wildly > fluctuating readings on the same sand/peat mix all > the time. I somtimes would get pH's of 9 or 10 > in pure distilled water. I also got basic > reading from tomato juice which is acidic. IMHO if > you are serious about measuring Ph you need a > real lab grade pH meter. > However, these are expensive. The ones I've used have not been so inaccurate but very flimsy. I broke two in quick succession and then gave up on trying to tote them into swamps. Phil ################### From: Chris Marsden <100620.2156@CompuServe.COM> Date: 20 Jan 97 11:31:21 EST Subject: Re: Sarracenia Nurseries Hello All, > > Hello UK CP growers, > > You may wish to contact the followings for the above. > > Sarracenia Nurseries > Links Side > Courtland Ave > MillHill London NW7 3BG > Tel: 081-959-1570 I don't mean to be rude, but I think Sarracenia Nurseries has ..er.."ceased trading" ...well jacked it in. I think the owners have given up. Could someone correct me if I'm wrong please? Kind Regards, Toby ################### From: Johannes.Marabini@t-online.de (Johannes Marabini) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:12:28 +0100 Subject: Re: N.burkei Hallo Jan, > But you should be careful as the type specimen of _N.burkei_ is > deposited at K (!photo; it rather exactly matches the illustration > in Gard.Chron. and the protologue by Masters), and certainly not > from the same collection as the specimen you have seen in TI. > Sure! - and not the same collection of course! Unfortunately I haven't seen the type-material at K., but I believe that the speciments from P.Nat. Herb. which I saw at Tokyo are identic to the Master's descr. in Gard.Chron.Ser.3 VI p.492 from 1889. That's only an lead for ventricosa/burkei. You should add a database of photos of all type-material to the CP-Archive!!! By Johannes -- Johannes Marabini Sperlingstrasse 10 91315 Hoechstadt/Aisch Germany Tel./Fax 49 9193 4866 @e-mail: mailto:Johannes.Marabini@t-online.de Homepage: ">johannes.marabini@t-online.de/index.htm">http://home.t-online.de/home/[7 13]johannes.marabini@t-online.de/index.htm ------------New Nepenthesphotos!!---------------------------------------------- ------------Updated 21.12.1996------------------------------------------------- ################### From: steiger@iae.unibe.ch (Juerg Steiger) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 19:28:19 +0100 Subject: Re: Pinguicula identification Jens I can't answer your first question, but the second one: >2) How can I tell P. vulgaris from P.alpina in winter ? P. alpina is the only subalpine/subarctic northern species with perennial roots: The winter buds cannot be easily removed from the ground as they are fixed on it with their relatively strong, yellowish-brownish roots. The distal end of the winter buds is more pointed than in P. vulgaris. P. vulgaris has tender whitish roots decaying in winter: Its winter buds are only weakly fixed on the ground and can easily be removed. Another distinction: If you open winter buds of adult P. alpina - an early flowering species - you will find in its 'heart' already well developed flower buds of 1.5-3 mm diameter. Opened hibernacula of P. vulgaris - which flowers 2-5 weeks after P. alpina at common sites - do not show flower buds or only very embryonic ones of less than 0.5 mm diameter. A third difference: The brood buds (gemmae) at the basis of a P. vulgaris hibernaculum are not or only slightly connected with the hibernaculum. P. alpina usually does not produce gemmae at all and if it exceptionally does, the gemma remains connected with the hibernaculum by a brownish-yellowish root branch. Kind regards Juerg ___________________________________________________ Juerg Steiger, Institut fuer Aus-, Weiter- und Fortbildung IAWF University of Bern, Inselspital 37a, CH-3010 Bern, Switzerland Office: +41 31 632 9887 Fax: +41 31 632 9871 ################### From: Phil Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 19:12:53 GMT Subject: Re: Re: Sarracenia Nurseries In your message dated Monday 20, January 1997 you wrote : > Hello All, > > > > > Hello UK CP growers, > > > > You may wish to contact the followings for the above. > > > > Sarracenia Nurseries > > Links Side > > Courtland Ave > > MillHill London NW7 3BG > > Tel: 081-959-1570 > > I don't mean to be rude, but I think Sarracenia Nurseries has ..er.."ceased > trading" ...well jacked it in. I think the owners have given up. Could someone > correct me if I'm wrong please? > > Kind Regards, > > Toby > > Sarracenia Nurseries have been sold off. Unfortunately I don't have a new contact address for them. I guess the new owners will have to start advertising soon ao keep an eye on the UK society newsletter for more details. -- Phil Wilson (cp@pwilson.demon.co.uk) ################### From: burkhard@aries.scs.uiuc.edu Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:05:31 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: cheap pH meters Hello Rick, > It has been my experience that those cheap pH meters sold in garden > centers (about $20 US) are really worthless crap. I would get wildly > fluctuating readings on the same sand/peat mix all the time. I > somtimes would get pH's of 9 or 10 in pure distilled water. I also > got basic reading from tomato juice which is acidic. IMHO if you are > serious about measuring Ph you need a real lab grade pH meter. > However, these are expensive. > I was wondering if your garden pH meter was calibrated. That might explain the radical readings. If the meter is adjustable, just make up some buffer solutions of different acidity and calibrate your meter, using pure water as your standard. Also, rinsing of the meter and adjusting the reading back to pH of 7 in water before each sampling might also help. Good luck. Paul Burkhardt ################### From: burkhard@aries.scs.uiuc.edu Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:06:03 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: silica sand Hi Mike, > I have a few more gen. questions: > -when using all-purpose sand containing silica, is it necessary to rinse it? > also, where is 100% silica sand available in small bag quantities? > I have only seen it at sand and gravel companies ie. by the truckload. I get my silica sand at the local hardware store in fifty pound bags. That's as small as I have seen it. Paul Burkhardt ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:02:14 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: silica sand Hi, > > > Hi Mike, > > > I have a few more gen. questions: -when using all-purpose sand > > containing silica, is it necessary to rinse it? > > also, where is 100% silica sand available in small bag > > quantities? I have only seen it at sand and gravel companies ie. > > by the truckload. > > > I get my silica sand at the local hardware store in fifty pound > bags. That's as small as I have seen it. > > Paul Burkhardt > You can get the horticultural sand in small bags. Same stuff, but more expensive. Totally sterile as far as I could ever tell, never had any problems using it. Make sure not to get the pre-wetted stuff that sometimes is sold as horticultural sand. The sand I got before was white and completely dry. Regards, Chris Teichreb Department of Biology University of Regina Regina, Saskatchewan, CANADA teichrch@Meena.CC.URegina.CA ################### From: "John Welsh" Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2097 22:01:37 -0200 Subject: Calling Madrid Hi everyone - and, in particular, anyone who lives in, or near, Madrid (Spain). I will be visiting Madrid for a few days during Brazil's "Carnaval" (those of you that have always wanted to experience Carnaval in Brazil probably think that I have taken leave of my senses . . . however, since I now live here, I will have many more opportunities to "Carnavalize" during other years, and so I am taken advantage of having a few days off - as well as having prepaid tickets which need to be used up before they expire.) Anyway, if anyone who lives in the Madrid area (or who has a knowledge of this region ) could orient me towards any possible CP related activities which I could undertake during my visit, it would be very much appreciated. Happy Growing John Welsh jrwelsh@nutecnet.com.br ################### From: Glenn Rankin Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:06:39 PST Subject: Lowrie's 1996/1997 catalog Hi everyone, Allen Lowrie's current catalog is now available from the listserver by sending the one line message >get cp cat.lowrie< to >listserv@opus.hpl.hp.com<. The file is about 40kB. If you've never seen it, it's worth a look. He has a very large selection of (mostly Australian) CP seeds. For short periods during the year he also offers Drosera tubers, pygmy Drosera gemmae and live petiolaris complex plants from tropical Australia. Be cautioned, however, that some of his seeds are difficult to germinate. For instance, I have been trying to get D. gigantea from him to germinate for more than two years. It's still too early to be sure, but I may have gotten four to come up that I planted over a year and a half ago. It doesn't appear to be all his fault, however. I have tried tuberous drosera seeds from a number of sources (Lowrie, Doug and Vivi Rowland, ICPS and ACPS) and still haven't found the secret yet. This year I will try Tom Johnson's suggestion to let the little suckers bake (dry) in the sun during the summer. Unless they are too small, his tubers sprout and grow OK for the first season, but some have problems getting into sync with the Northern Hemisphere seasons and die for various reasons. The consensus from previous discussions on the list is that if you can find what you want from a source other than Lowrie, then get it there. If not, realize that you are taking a gamble. (BTW, if you have trouble with his seeds or tubers, he is willing to correspond with you about it.) Glenn Rankin rankin@hpl.hp.com ################### From: blymn@awadi.com.au (Brett Lymn) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:53:58 +1030 (CST) Subject: Re: Lowrie's 1996/1997 catalog According to Glenn Rankin: > >Unless they are too small, his tubers sprout and grow OK for the first >season, but some have problems getting into sync with the Northern >Hemisphere seasons and die for various reasons. > One thing I have found with tuberous drosera is that they don't like to be too wet nor too dry when they are dormant. I used to just let my pots of tuberous drosera dry out over summer but it seemed a lot of my plants never came up again. Now what I do is water the tuberous drosera very occaisionally during summer (say, pour some water on it once every couple of weeks), this seems to be enough to stop the tuber being totally baked but not wet enough to rot the thing. Perhaps this is your problem? -- Brett Lymn, Computer Systems Administrator, AWA Defence Industries =============================================================================== "Upgrading your memory gives you MORE RAM!" - ad in MacWAREHOUSE catalogue. ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 08:48:39 Subject: Re: N.burkei Dear Johannes, > You should add a database of photos of all type-material to the > CP-Archive!!! I actually would love to but unfortunately, I mustn t because Kew has a copyright on these photos, and I would have to get (i.e. pay for) the permission to publish them. Kind regards Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 08:42:05 Subject: Re: Calling Madrid Dear John, > Anyway, if anyone who lives in the Madrid area (or who has a > knowledge of this region ) could orient me towards any possible CP > related activities which I could undertake during my visit, it > would be very much appreciated. I do not live there nor do I have any particular knowledge of the region (I only know that our possible correspondents from there are very lazy to answer). The endemic _Pinguicula_ species of Spain are all approx. 100 km or more away (to the N, E, and S) from Madrid, so if you are looking for these, Madrid is perhaps not the ideal starting point. If you still want to try, Juerg Steiger will certainly be able to provide you with locality data. A point of greater importance to me which is directly connected with Madrid (and cps of course) is the publication (not available from any German library): Anales (de) Historia Natural, Madrid. In vol. 19, published in the year 1890, Gomez has written some Cuban cp names for the first (and so far also the last!) time, apparently without description (nomina nuda). The names in question were on pages: 233 (_Drosera communis var.cubensis_) and 263-264 (_Utricularia cornuta var.michauxii_, _U. foliosa var.oligosperma_, _U. longeciliata var.rubrocalcarata_). Until now, none of our esteemed Spanish (or other) colleagues was able to look up this source and communicate any details (descriptive bits of information on morphology, herbarium specimens, locality data, etc.) which could be hidden among the above cited lines. This is a pity especially because _D. communis_ and _U. longeciliata_ have apparently never been collected from Cuba. So if your time allows, could you please locate the library of the University of Madrid, locate the above cited opus, and either xerox the respective pages of interest and send them to: Jan Schlauer, Am Hoelzlein 88, 97076 Wuerzburg, Germany or note and communicate the respective data via email? Thank you tons in advance, also in the name of the cp nomenclatural & taxonomic community! Kind regards Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:02:21 Subject: Re: Pinguicula identification Dear Jens, > 1) Is there an easy way of identifying P. moranensis ? If you accept the names _P. zecheri_, _P. rectifolia_, and _P. potosiensis_ (you cannot accept P. orchidioides because this one is illegitimate for formal reasons!), forget about unambiguous identification. No way. You have to wait for the monographs by Zamudio-Ruiz and Speta & Fuchs, respectively (which are announced since more than five years already but will still take a lot of time to appear, I suppose). If you want to identify _P. moranensis_ sensu lato, look for the long corolla spur, truncate, wedge-shaped lower corolla lobes (especially the central lobe). If the leaf base of the summer leaves is not petiolate nor marginally ciliate, and if the rosette is composed of few large (compared to _P. esseriana_ or _P. ehlersiae_) leaves, then you have _P. moranensis_. Kind regards Jan ################### From: Gordon Wells Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 10:18:52 UTC+0100 Subject: Sarracenia Nurseries R.I.P. On 20 Jan 97 11:31:21 EST, Chris Marsden wrote: > I don't mean to be rude, but I think Sarracenia Nurseries has ..er.."ceased > trading" ...well jacked it in. I think the owners have given up. Could someone > correct me if I'm wrong please? Yes, you're right. They told me on the phone that they had decided to give up the business after 20 years, and for a very odd (and difficult to believe) reason: the British postal system was losing over 50% of their shipments. I always thought the British postal system was famed for its efficiency - hmmm... Anyway, they closed up shop so quickly that they even decided not to send half of my PREPAID order! After over 10 long-distance phone calls and several faxes requesting they send the remaining stuff, I finally gave up too. Best regards, Gordon Wells Instituto de Robotica e Informatica Industrial Edificio Nexus, planta 2 Gran Capitan 2-4 Barcelona 08034 SPAIN ################### From: "Demetrio Lamzaki" Date: Tue, 21 Jan 97 14:31:37 UT Subject: Gibberellic Acid Hi Everyone, I'm looking for gibberellic acid (GA3) to help germinate some seeds. I saw it in the 1997 Carolina Biological Supply Catalog listed at $17.25 for 1g not including the 20% shipping cost plus the state sales tax I'd have to pay. Does this sound like the going rate for gibb acid to you or is there another mail order place I can get it from at a better price? If you know of a source please drop me an email, or if you know of a local store in the Bay Area that sells it I'd love to hear about it. Thanks for your help. Regards, Demetrios ################### From: Paul Temple 21-Jan-1997 1549 <">temple_p@fangio.enet.dec.com> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 97 16:46:40 MET Subject: Re: "CLODS"-Value of CP site info, repopulting sites (long-ish!) +---------------------------+ TM From: Paul Temple | | | | | | | | Dept: Digital | d | i | g | i | t | a | l | Func: Net Comms | | | | | | | | DTN: 7781-1582 +---------------------------+ Easynet: fangio::temple_p Internet: ">temple_p@gmt.dec.com Loc/MS: GMT Following Barry's interesting CPN article this little nagging doubt stirred over the true value of tagging plants with pseudo-exotic location names, e.g. Utricularia gibba (Tar Lake, Trinidad). No, don't request any; I've seen it there but I haven't got any! There has also been a slow but steady related discussion on the practicality of saving or repopulating a site with plants originally taken from that site, as denoted by the site name appended to the plant name. I thought I'd comment. Repopulation first. In all the discussions, I've seen no mention of population densities. There have also been suggestions that it is assumed that a small number of plants will be taken from the wild for any conservation purposes (I'll call these "rescued" plants). "Small" is a subjective word and the implication is that any "small" number of rescued plants will be insignificant compared to the actual number of plants found at the original site. Reading CPN, it's clear that in America (for example), sites such as those for Sarracenia are often threatened and this is made all the more apparent when one is treated to wonderful pictures (or visits to) fields full of Sarracenia, literally hundreds, if not thousands of plants. Based on examples such as this, it's not surpising that a "small" number of rescued plants could not fully replace the biodiversity lost if the whole field got ploughed under! But fields full of plants are not the norm everywhere, if indeed a norm exists. My Pinguicula hunts have led me to discover sites where the entire population numbers maybe as much as 20 plants. Say, for example, that I can remove one seed pod (with permission!!!) containing a small number of seeds (let's say 35 seed, about normal for a cross pollination). Although I have a "small" number (35) of seeds, I actually have more potential plants than the entire population of plants growing in the source location! As to biodiversity, in such a situation, it is probable that there will be more biodiversity in the 20 wild plants than in the resulting 35 cultivated seedlings but this is neither certain nor is it necessarily significant as, with such small numbers in the wild, any new seedlings will in themselves increase the biodiversity significantly (as long as they are not all replanted back in the wild whereby their limited biodiversity might smother the wild original). Further, by placing some of these cultivated plants back in the wild, I can gain an opportunity to collect seed from a different plant. I can also take every opportunity to "lend a hand" and cross pollinate any flowers I can find in the wild. Work it out. For species where the original population is small, this results in a near exponential growth in biodiversity assuming seed is collected and grown successfully from successive generations. Therefore it is not only one of very few ways (if not the only way) to conserve a plant under dire threat, it is also both viable and pragmatic and even an improvement on what natural processes might be expected to achieve. But back to the Sarracenia field (I wish!). Suppose over a period of 20 years lots of people visit the field, some taking plants (surely not), others taking seeds (and some taking only memories). If they all kept decent provenance records or if the tagged the location name to the plant name, then potentially even a field full of thousands of plants may be able to be matched by the sheer weight of material collected over the years. Using such well documented plants, a breeding p[rogramme could be set up to ensure the maximum biodiversity was gained by multiple cross pollination of different partners. Effectively this is identical to the procedure now adopted for rescuing threatened animal species, it's just that I've never heard of its application to plants. But why not? Surely another project a world wide CP conservation body could conduct (remember, you heard it first here!). Either a geneticist or a mathematician could work out how many crosses of which plants would be needed to replace a wild population lost to a catastrophe (e.g. a plough). There is some more maths that could be done on this. Perhaps a mathematician amoungst us might like to look at the issue of very small populations from a purely mathematical point of view. In the wild: assume 20 plants; assume about 5% germination success with an average of 35 seeds per seed pod, assume 4 - 5 flowers per plant per year, assume 50% of the plants flower each year; assume seedlings take 2 years to flower in the wild. In cultivation, assume 90% germination success; assume seedlings take 1 year to flower; assume other factors equal. How many seedpods would need to be taken into cultivation to significantly increase the biodiversity after 1 year, 2 years, 5 years. If a single seed is taken from the wild and if the resultant plant is self pollinated with a resultant 30 - 35 seedlings how many further generations of plants would need to be cross pollinated to create a cultivated group with the same biodiversity as the wild group of 20 plants. (This would need a botanist to assist - with estimates of wild biodiversity and same for cultivated seedlings from a selfed plant). Sorry to get all theoretical but I happen to like this sort of stuff andf I feel it may in any case have a practical result - perhaps some sort of "what if" mathematical model? Can the model apply to any size population? (Why not?) Anyone out there able to take the challenge? (Spock - where are you?) As to appending those exotic names, OK, I agree in general with what Barry says. And at least one other person has added comments in the conference. But I'll also add that these "names" are a short cut which can be helpful scientifically. Why a short cut? Because if anyone is collecting plants (or preferably seed), then to be of any use scientically the provenance (details of where and when the plant was found) must be recorded. Many plants are collected with inadequate provenance details (and we've already heard that this now should include proof of permission to collect). And most collectors do not have full documentation processes for their plants (e.g. full written records). So the onlyy way that the source location may be recorded is by making it a part of the plant's name. OK, it's not scientific but those who understand the science understand what is going on and those who don't understand the science don't mind! From experience, I can tell you that the location name, whether tagged on as part of the name or recorded separately (properly), can then help in future identification of the plant. When searching through herbarium records I have actually been able to link my plants to those found by others based partially on the plant description but also on the loaction at which each collector found the plant. And even this can give a clue as to conservation needs. If all the plants found are from small populations and if each separate discovery is always from the same location, one can soon begin to hypothesise that not too many locations or plants exist. But back to reality. There are two real reasons why most people tack on the location names (or indeed other epithets such as "heavily veined", "red tube green lid", green tube red lid", "giant", "pygmy", etc.) . The collectors use it to turn a small collection into a large one (U. gibba is one plant. U. gibba (Tar Lake, Trinidad) and U.gibba (Aripo) are two plants. The fact that they are botanically identical doesn't count where our residual caveman hunter/gatherer extincts are to be satisfied! And for the entrepreneur, there is yet another opportunity to charge a lot for that very special plant that no-one has. After all, which would sell better, Pinguicula sp. or Pinguicula sp. (Cuba)!!! (My hat is off to Harald Weiner who made a living out of doing this. I wonder where/how he is now?) Regards Paul ################### From: "Sarver.Cindy V3I" Date: 21 Jan 1997 08:59:55 U Subject: Mushrooms? All, The chopped spaghnum in which I'm growing my Darlingtonia seedlings developed mushrooms yesterday. These mushrooms are extremely tiny (1-2cm) and there are many of them. They are cream in color. Any ideas of what they are? Will this hurt the Darlingtonia? They look kind of cute, actually... Thanks, -cindy ################### From: Paul Temple 21-Jan-1997 1551 Date: Tue, 21 Jan 97 16:49:31 MET Subject: Question - Protolog +---------------------------+ TM From: Paul Temple | | | | | | | | Dept: Digital | d | i | g | i | t | a | l | Func: Net Comms | | | | | | | | DTN: 7781-1582 +---------------------------+ Easynet: fangio::temple_p Internet: temple_p@gmt.dec.com Loc/MS: GMT Easy one. What is a "protolog" please? Is it the first publication to announce and therefore describe a new taxa (or should I be saying taxum?!!!). And if it isn't, what is the generic name for such a publication? Oh OK, I lied. It was two (or even three) questions really. Regards Paul ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Tue, 21 Jan 97 12:06:00 EST Subject: RE: growlux vs cool white On January 15, Steve H. asked >Has anyone that grows CP under flourescent lights done any >studies to determine which is better; GROWLUX which claims >a more useful spectrum to plants or COOL-WHITE which appears > to have more light output? Hi Steve, I haven't done any studies but will pass on that when I went to Atlanta Light Bulb (on Highway 78, just outside 285), the person there recommended Excella fluorescent tubes. He uses them to grow herbs, and they have worked well for me. I have Drosera and Sarr seedlings under them, and all are doing fine. They are about $7 each. David ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:11:05 Subject: Re: Question - Protolog > Easy one. What is a "protolog" please? > > Is it the first publication to announce and therefore describe a new taxa (or > should I be saying taxum?!!!). And if it isn't, what is the generic name for > such a publication? Protologue (British and French, "Protolog" in German and American) (from Greek "proton", the first and "logos" word), the "first word" to be published about a taxon (plural taxa) which was hitherto unknown to science. How to accomplish such a publication is explained in very much detail in the ICBN (International Code of Botanical Nomenclature). Usually a protologue contains 1. a scientific name for the new taxon, followed by 2. the names of the describing author(s) 3. an explicit statement of its rank (fam., gen., spec., subsp., var., f.) and 4. "nov." (nova, novum = new!). 5. a Latin description or diagnosis (the latter is only appropriate if a closely related taxon can be compared with the new one) of the new taxon and 6. a type specimen statement (including the herbarium in which this specimen is located). An announcement (like "publication in preparation", "in litt.", etc.) or even a commercial advertisement is not necessary. A text that lacks one or several of 3./5./6. renders 1. illegitimate (nomenclatural waste). For further (incl. exotic) details and (rather numerous) exceptions, please consult the ICBN. Kind regards Jan ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <">23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Tue, 21 Jan 97 13:52 EST Subject: Re: "CLODS" > But fields full of plants are not the norm everywhere, if indeed a norm exis > My Pinguicula hunts have led me to discover sites where the entire populatio > numbers maybe as much as 20 plants. Say, for example, that I can remove one > seed pod (with permission!!!) containing a small number of seeds (let's say > seed, about normal for a cross pollination). Although I have a "small" numb > (35) of seeds, I actually have more potential plants than the entire populat > of plants growing in the source location! As to biodiversity, in such a > situation, it is probable that there will be more biodiversity in the 20 wil > plants than in the resulting 35 cultivated seedlings but this is neither cer > nor is it necessarily significant as, with such small numbers in the wild, a > new seedlings will in themselves increase the biodiversity significantly (as > long as they are not all replanted back in the wild whereby their limited > biodiversity might smother the wild original). Further, by placing some of > these cultivated plants back in the wild, I can gain an opportunity to colle > seed from a different plant. I can also take every opportunity to "lend a h > and cross pollinate any flowers I can find in the wild. Work it out. For > species where the original population is small, this results in a near > exponential growth in biodiversity assuming seed is collected and grown > successfully from successive generations. Therefore it is not only one of v > few ways (if not the only way) to conserve a plant under dire threat, it is > both viable and pragmatic and even an improvement on what natural processes > might be expected to achieve. I wonder if a wild population consisting of only 20 individuals might already be well on its way to extinction in the wild? How would its pollinators be fairing? I doubt that a mere 20 individuals of a plant species constitutes a viable long-term population. What if a tree falls on the site? > But back to the Sarracenia field (I wish!). Suppose over a period of 20 yea > lots of people visit the field, some taking plants (surely not), others taki > seeds (and some taking only memories). If they all kept decent provenance > records or if the tagged the location name to the plant name, then potential > even a field full of thousands of plants may be able to be matched by the sh > weight of material collected over the years. Using such well documented > plants, a breeding p[rogramme could be set up to ensure the maximum biodiver > was gained by multiple cross pollination of different partners. Effectively > this is identical to the procedure now adopted for rescuing threatened anima > species, it's just that I've never heard of its application to plants. But > not? Surely another project a world wide CP conservation body could conduct > (remember, you heard it first here!). Either a geneticist or a mathematicia > could work out how many crosses of which plants would be needed to replace a > wild population lost to a catastrophe (e.g. a plough). I think you've touched on an important point here. If they ALL kept decent locality records, and maintianed both these records as well as the plants, and if this sheer weight of material could be brought together into a breeding program, then this may have a chance. But it is quixotic to imagine that hobby collectors will be able to do this. Hobby collecting is a leisure activity. There is no accountability for data lost, labels confused, plants killed, flowers left unpollinated, propagules given away to those who can't maintain the data, etc... If hobby collectors were responsible for all that, there would be little fun in plant collecting! Collectors are free to do what they like! (within the law). This is what makes collecting enjoyable, but it ensures there is none of the organization necessary for uniting the disparate plants in a multitude of collections. Why count on some agency to bring together plants from private collectors? It would be easier to start a conservation program from scratch, and build it from material collected (with permission!) from the wild. Consistent record keeping is more likely acheived through organiztion. Hobby collecting is usually a solitary activity. If hard times befall you, it's the leisure budget that gets cut off. If collections were maintained by a community rather than an individual, the chances of riding through hard times are greater. Those community collections are botanical gardens. (But not all botanical gardens have a conservation program). > There is some more maths that could be done on this. > Perhaps a mathematician amoungst us might like to look at the issue of very > small populations from a purely mathematical point of view. In the wild: as > 20 plants; assume about 5% germination success with an average of 35 seeds p > seed pod, assume 4 - 5 flowers per plant per year, assume 50% of the plants > flower each year; assume seedlings take 2 years to flower in the wild. In > cultivation, assume 90% germination success; assume seedlings take 1 year to > flower; assume other factors equal. How many seedpods would need to be ta > into cultivation to significantly increase the biodiversity after 1 year, 2 > years, 5 years. If a single seed is taken from the wild and if the resultan I believe that the "biodiversity" of concern here is the allelic diversity, which is increased only through mutations. Those mutations which are benefical or harmless are maintained in the population. This process of building biodiversity takes thousands of years. With conservation we can only hope to maintain this biodiversity, not increase it. Michael Chamberland ################### From: Glenn Rankin Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:44:12 PST Subject: Tuberous Drosera dormancy Until I get each tuber timed correctly and dormancy is more or less routine from season to season, I dig it up and put it in a cool and not-so-dry place till it sprouts again. Sometimes the tuber starts to shrivel during the summer, so I try to get it a little less dry by putting it in mineral sand and lightly watering it. I have lost a few this way due to rot. I can't figure these out. If I don't increase the moisture slightly, they dry out, if I do, they rot. I wonder if oils or salts from frequent handling may damage the outer membrane in some way. Others just rot sitting in a plastic bag inside my house, with no moisture visible. A more common problem for me is that the plant starts to go dormant, so I to let it get slowly drier. But before it is completely "tuberized", it sends out fresh sprouts. Some proceed to make a new tuber, but others have just formed a stem by the time it gets too hot to survive and I lose it. Glenn Rankin rankin@hpl.hp.com > > According to Glenn Rankin: > > > >Unless they are too small, his tubers sprout and grow OK for the first > >season, but some have problems getting into sync with the Northern > >Hemisphere seasons and die for various reasons. > > > > One thing I have found with tuberous drosera is that they don't like > to be too wet nor too dry when they are dormant. I used to just let > my pots of tuberous drosera dry out over summer but it seemed a lot of > my plants never came up again. Now what I do is water the tuberous > drosera very occaisionally during summer (say, pour some water on it > once every couple of weeks), this seems to be enough to stop the tuber > being totally baked but not wet enough to rot the thing. Perhaps this > is your problem? > > -- > Brett Lymn, Computer Systems Administrator, AWA Defence Industries ################### From: PERSEPHONE@aol.com Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:20:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: neo-tropical cp I'm the Rainforest gardener at Woodland Park Zoo in Seattle, and we're looking for carnivorous plants from Central or South America to use in our NW Flower & Garden Show Exhibit coming up very soon. We would love to beg, borrow or buy just a few specimens to use in our Cloud Forest exhibit, and later in exhibits back at the Zoo. If anyone can help me out with species names available and from whom, I'd be very grateful! Thanks Giselle in Seattle ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Tue, 21 Jan 97 17:03:00 EST Subject: FW: droseras I thought you all would be interested in how Michal germinates Drosera seed. See below David ---------- To: Mellard, David >Yes, I use kleenex. When I used to use normal peat moss with sand, >the droseras did not sprout very quick. I waited for about a month >and I got only 1 seedligh growing which >disintegrated after 1 week. I tried the following method of mine. >I used (1 use) water proof picnic plates in which I put several sheets of >ordinary kleenex without any additional substances. I put very thin >layer of peat moss on these kleenexes. It's very small amount (you >can see kleenex through it. Then I put the kinds of seeds on my >plates (different drosera seed in different plates. I added >Destilled water so the kleenex sheets go wet. I didn't add a lot >that it would flow. I covered the plates with transparet plastic >foil and sealed. The plate holds the water for about 2 weeks >without worry. The seed germinated after about a week. Hope this >helps.... > > ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Tue, 21 Jan 97 17:53:00 EST Subject: CP identification I did some impulse buying at Home Depot over the holidays and can't figure out what cp I bought. Can you help? It came in one of those hotel cp set-ups: brown base, clear, plastic dome, pure peat media. Here's the description: 1. Rosette leaf formation growing close to the surface 2. Lime green leaves, clear mucilage, no red anywhere 3. 2 inch diameter plant 4. Leaves are much longer than they are wide: say, 3:1 or 4:1 5. I think it had a pink flower but could be wrong. My guess is some type of pinguicula but I can't find a picture of it in any of my cp books. The leave are much too narrow, at least for the pings I saw in the books. Thanks, David ################### From: dgibbsha@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu (Deborah K. Gibbs-Halm) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 97 19:01 EST Subject: Venus Flytraps and Sundews I am 9 years old and have 1 venus flytrap. I want to know how to grow venus flytraps and sundews without them wilting. I have tried giving them almost every sort of insect, but they always seem to die! I also have trouble keeping the right temperature in the terrarium and I can not figure out how much water they need. Any suggestions? Derek ################### From: rah@netcom.com (Richard Hyde) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 17:05:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Gibberellic acid Demetrios, >I'm looking for gibberellic acid (GA3) to help germinate some seeds. Custom Lab Supply in Oakland, CA has it in stock: (510) 633-1329 at $23.25/gm You can order it through Lab-Pro inc. in Sunnyvale. (408) 745-0222 at $15/gm Cheers, Rick ################### From: dave evans Date: Tue, 21 Jan 97 20:19 EST Subject: Re: Personal preference? > From: Pavlo2@AOL.COM > > I am going to be planting my first CPs soon, and I really want to do this > right. So, I was wondering... what is the best mix of soil for D. > rotundifolia and S.leucophylla. Is there any mixes that are best; I think > everyone has there own opinion on this, but I was just wondering. Also, is > it still possible to purchase the books 'Carnivorous Plants' and 'The World > of Carnivorous Plants'? Thanks. Hi, In the wild, S.luecophylla likes very wet peaty soils and full sun. D.rotundifolia like well drained peaty sand soil and some shade. They can be grown together in the same pot. Place 100% peatmoss in the bottom half of the pot (six-eight inches), this will hold a lot of water and the Sarracenia roots will penetrate down into it. The top half, 1:1 peatmoss:sand. This will give the Drosera (and lots temperate Pings, if more shaded than what Drosera like) a good media and the taller Sarr can then shade it. Use a LARGE pot for them, something about five gallons will be good for a mature trumpet Sarracenia (I grow seedlings in four or two inch pots). I use round pots with basins attached to their bottoms to catch overfill so the pots are always sitting in water. Dave Evans ################### From: dave evans Date: Tue, 21 Jan 97 20:48 EST Subject: Re: CP identification > From: "Mellard, David" > > 1. Rosette leaf formation growing close to the surface > 2. Lime green leaves, clear mucilage, no red anywhere > 3. 2 inch diameter plant > 4. Leaves are much longer than they are wide: say, 3:1 or 4:1 > 5. I think it had a pink flower but could be wrong. Hmm, this sounds like P.agnata * P.gypsicola! The flowers ought to be purple though. Another possiblity is Drosera adelae, it does have pink flowers. But I assume you can tell Drosera and Pinguicula apart.... If it's the Ping, it's probably in the wrong soil and would like to have vermiculite in there too. This cross (unless all-green) can get some very nice shading to it in the right light and four inch long leaves. Dave Evans ################### From: Fernando Rivadavia Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:20:35 +0900 (JST) Subject: D.uniflora cultivation tips To all, I have just received the good news that I will be receiving (today or tomorrow) live specimens of D.uniflora and would like a few opinions from anyone who has experience with Drosera dormancy or switching the seasons of plants from opposite hemispheres. I doubt any of you have had experience with this species before, since it is endemic to southernmost Argentina and Chile, in an area called Tierra del Fuego. It is taxonomically a very interesting species, with its position in the genus being rather dubious. I am hoping to include this species in my DNA work with Drosera and thus having leaf material is essential. Though I can get leaves from herbaria (which will also be brought with these live specimens), it would be interesting if we could introduce this species into cultivation. Although I believe this would be rather difficult for 99% of CPers due to the difficulty of reproducing the natural conditions in which this species grows. Its summers probably only last 2-3 months, with very LONG days. Hopefully I'll get seeds to spread to in-vitro workers. The plants I intend to pass on to responsible cultivators here in Japan. Yet the plants should be at the height of their growing season at the moment, it being summer in the S Hemisphere. Does anyone have any tips as to whether we should try and force this species into dormancy now or maybe keep it inside heated greenhouses for a while longer, maybe a month, and then put it in the refrigerator (or freezer?). And should we keep them in the fridge/freezer until summer of '98 or maybe attempt to remove them in late summer and then let winter come again naturally? Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks for the help, Fernando Rivadavia Tokyo, Japan ################### From: blymn@awadi.com.au (Brett Lymn) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:03:20 +1030 (CST) Subject: Re: Tuberous Drosera dormancy I suppose I should preface all this by saying that, due to locality, I do have some advantage in growing these things ;-) According to Glenn Rankin: > >A more common problem for me is that the plant starts to go dormant, >so I start to let it get slowly drier. But before it is completely >"tuberized", it sends out fresh sprouts. Some proceed to make a new >tuber, but others have just formed a stem by the time it gets too hot >to survive and I lose it. > What I normally do is as soon as the drosera shows signs of shutting up shop for the summer I remove the water altogether and let the pot dry out, I then (as I said before) only water very occasionally. My normal practice is not to stand my tuberous drosera in water at all but, rather, just increase the watering frequency when the plant is actually growing (since they come up in winter the plant normally just survives on what it gets when it rains). You must remember that these guys come from a very arid country and that they have evolved to cope with these dry conditions. I must admit that I have killed a lot of tuberous drosera due to overwatering, the (only) surviving one I have was a weed in some other pot and it was pure chance that I hit upon the growing method I have, what happened was the other plant in the pot died so I put the pot aside to scavange the potting mix for something else later - it was only many months later that I noticed the tuberous drosera coming up. I have stuck to the regime I have described for quite a few years now and have had the drosera come up regularly each year. I have also found that CEPHALOTUS does not like to be kept too wet - I was watering it like I watered my sarras but it always seem to go down hill, now that I have backed off the water - not to the extent I do with the tuberous drosera! - the plant seems to be picking up. I would estimate that I give it about 1/3 the water I give a sarra. -- Brett Lymn, Computer Systems Administrator, AWA Defence Industries =============================================================================== "Upgrading your memory gives you MORE RAM!" - ad in MacWAREHOUSE catalogue. ################### From: dave evans Date: Tue, 21 Jan 97 22:58 EST Subject: Re: Mushrooms? > All, > The chopped spaghnum in which I'm growing my Darlingtonia seedlings developed > mushrooms yesterday. These mushrooms are extremely tiny (1-2cm) and there are > many of them. They are cream in color. Any ideas of what they are? > Will this hurt the Darlingtonia? They look kind of cute, actually... Hi Cindy, Yes, that fungus *can* harm your plants. I have them coming up in my Nepenthes terrariums, and lately, in the Drosera terrarium. It nearly killed a P. rosie (but it's not a P.moranenis, so I have no clue as to it's true ID). To stop it from finishing off the Ping, I sprayed the soil and dead leaves around the butterwort with hydrogen peroxide, avoiding the actual growth tip. Then I let the soil dry. Of course, this treatment will quickly kill Darlingtonia, which needs much more moisture than your average Mexican Ping... Pick off the mushrooms as they appear to reduce the spores. Remove soil and Sphagnum with fuzz on it. Use a spray bottle or some other method to break up the fungus and wash it from the pot. This will slow down the fungus but probably will not kill it off. To do that, something about your conditions has to change. It sound like your Sphagnum doesn't like it's conditions. The humidity is too high for level of air flow or water flow. In the wild, Sphagnum is washed and beat down by rain. In cultivation and poor conditions it can grow too long (high humidity, low light) and the bottom part starts to decay, molding up your pot or terrarium. Many Nepenthes growers have had this trouble with the moss and have stopped using it. I stopped using it for big plants, but it is still great for rooting them. For other pots, I changed the conditions to more reflect the plants' and the Sphagnum's natural humidity and watering. Dave Evans P.S. Generally, a couple mushrooms popping up here and there is OK, just keep an eye on the plants near by. A whole pot full in the moss and around Darlingtonia is bad. ################### From: Russell Elliott Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 18:57:45 -0800 Subject: Re: Lowrie's 1996/1997 catalog Glenn Rankin wrote: > > Postage paid by: [Image] > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Hi everyone, > > Allen Lowrie's current catalog is now available from the listserver by > sending the one line message >get cp cat.lowrie< to > >listserv@opus.hpl.hp.com<. The file is about 40kB. > > If you've never seen it, it's worth a look. He has a very large > selection of (mostly Australian) CP seeds. For short periods during > the year he also offers Drosera tubers, pygmy Drosera gemmae and live > petiolaris complex plants from tropical Australia. > > Be cautioned, however, that some of his seeds are difficult to > germinate. For instance, I have been trying to get D. gigantea from > him to germinate for more than two years. It's still too early to be > sure, but I may have gotten four to come up that I planted over a year > and a half ago. It doesn't appear to be all his fault, however. I have > tried tuberous drosera seeds from a number of sources (Lowrie, Doug > and Vivi Rowland, ICPS and ACPS) and still haven't found the secret > yet. This year I will try Tom Johnson's suggestion to let the little > suckers bake (dry) in the sun during the summer. > > Unless they are too small, his tubers sprout and grow OK for the first > season, but some have problems getting into sync with the Northern > Hemisphere seasons and die for various reasons. > > The consensus from previous discussions on the list is that if you can > find what you want from a source other than Lowrie, then get it there. > If not, realize that you are taking a gamble. (BTW, if you have trouble > with his seeds or tubers, he is willing to correspond with you about > it.) > > Glenn Rankin > rankin@hpl.hp.com Glenn, How are those D.auriculata going? Anyway, I think I may know why you aren't getting very good germination results. I think most Australian tuberous Drosera seed require fire to to germinate. A freind of mine has used smoke pads available from Frank Wolpert in South Africa to stimulate Byblis gigantea seed to germinate. Most of the tuberous Drosera from Allen Lowrie come from the heathlands of Western Australia. Here, fire is an important factor in shaping the way the plants grow there. When a fire burns through, all of the adult plants are burned, and release their seed. Also, seed that has been lying previously dormant in the soil are stimulated into germinating by the chemicals and heat provided by the fire. Those smoke pads I was talking about earlier are impregnated with the same chemicals produced by the fire. You place one of these in water with the seed you want to germinate, and leave them to soak for about 24 hours. The person I was telling you about earlier had never managed to germinate Byblis gigantea before, but after the smoke pad tratement, he got a very high rate of germination. If you want to know how to obtain some of these smoke pads, contact me on one of the email addresses below. Hope this Helps, Russell. -- *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ! Russell Elliott ! ! Seed Bank Director, ! ! Australian Carnivorous Plant Society ! ! mailto:relliott@geocities.com ! ! mailto:elliott@nexus.edu.au ! *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ################### From: "BIOMAN ED" Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2097 00:42:26 -0800 Subject: Re: Fernando's genlesia hints I just wanted to add a little info about Genlesia from one of my experiments. After recieving some G. violacea seed from Fernando when he visited me, I put them in a petri dish on bibulous paper, added a little water of course,and later had a fairly decent amount of seed germinate. I transplanted the seedlings and then let the dishes contents dry out. Exactly a year later I added some water to the same dish (untouched since I took the germinated seeds out) and later had some more seeds germinate. Once again a year later, I repeated the same process and to my surprise some more seeds germinated. The number of seeds germinating decreased each time. What a wonderfull thing! This gives me hope when I hear that a good G. site received little water a certain year or completely dried out for a season. Abracos, Edward Read (Fernando, Oaxaca was a success, all set for you in L.A.) ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:37:09 Subject: Re: D.uniflora cultivation tips Dear Fernando, First, I do not have any experience with the cultivation of _D. uniflora_ (does anyone on this list?). > Hopefully I'll get seeds to spread to in-vitro workers. The plants > I intend to pass on to responsible cultivators here in Japan. Yet the > plants should be at the height of their growing season at the moment, > it being summer in the S Hemisphere. Summer yes, hot no. > Does anyone have any tips as to > whether we should try and force this species into dormancy now or maybe > keep it inside heated greenhouses for a while longer, maybe a month, and > then put it in the refrigerator (or freezer?). Under all circumstances, not heated greenhouses. Even in summer, Tierra del Fuego is (despite its name!) rather frigid. The nights at least (they still have nights because the antarctic circle is still further S) are very cold (freezing temps possible). > And should we keep them in the fridge/freezer until summer of '98 > or maybe attempt to remove them in late summer and then let winter > come again naturally? The resting period can usually be prolonged. I do not know if this is feasible for 6 months but at least several months should be possible. If the plant survives the next season, this could be repeated, so you could synchronize it with the N hemisphere. It will become a problem to create long days with low temps in summer. Another strategy would use artificial lights in the N hemishere winter to simulate the summer of Tierra del Fuego. In this case you must store the plant in the fridge as soon as temps rise. The climate of Tierra del Fuego is persistently windy and chilly, so I suppose that _Drosera_ can only grow in very wet conditions (to compensate for the high evaporation rates to be expected). Perhaps Juerg could give you some hints from his experience with arctic _Pinguiculae_. In vitro, the likewise extreme S-American _P. antarctica_ grows all year through with "resting" periods (slower growth and higher mortality) of about 3 months, a behaviour similar to that of the arctic _P. villosa_ in vitro (which forms hibernaculae in a similar rhythm). Good growing, kind regards Jan ################### From: "j.m.haddon" Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:53:27 GMT+0 Subject: Mushrooms, Viable pops Deat Cindy, The mushrooms will not harm your Darlingtonia seedlings although they do bring around the point of acidity. Mushroooms, as you may know are the fruiting bodies of the fungus. They live on decaying matter, this would be dead sphagnum material. Now if your media was acidic as the average bog you would not get any decay and thus no fungi. Althought I have found from my short exprience with Darlingtonia is that they live perfectly well in not so acidic conditions. Dear All, The question of viable populations came up in the Clods discusion. I am very interested in this as I find that most of the Pings I come across in the wild have only a few individuals. This made me think of aliens, not the ones from x-files, they are introduced into gardens as just a few plants and sometimes take over whole swards of land. If a population such as this is thought to be of low diversity how is it that they can survive and thrive to such and extent? I know that they have been introduced in to a pest free environment and thus do better than native Spp. but surely the low genetic diversity would let them down? Yours JoHn ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Wed, 22 Jan 97 07:53:00 EST Subject: Re: CP identification Great big belly laugh about your assuming that I can tell the difference between a Drosera and a Ping. It certainly doesn't look like D. capillaris (the only Drosera in my collection), and the color green is definitely the shade of green I've seen on Pings, hence my assumption that it is a Ping. Thanks for the response Dave. I'm certain it's not D. adelae since I have killed many before learning their secrets. And you're right about the flower. It was closer to purple; I'm just not that good with color shades. I guess I need to get the rejects from Barry's Crayola set. It seems odd that it's a cross because the other cp's on display from this unknown company (to me) were species: a N. madagascarensis, a D. schizandra (I'm sure the spelling is wrong here, but think you'll know anyway the one I mean.) along with the typical VFT and D. capensis. Again, thanks for the help David ---------- To: Multiple recipients of list > From: "Mellard, David" > > 1. Rosette leaf formation growing close to the surface > 2. Lime green leaves, clear mucilage, no red anywhere > 3. 2 inch diameter plant > 4. Leaves are much longer than they are wide: say, 3:1 or 4:1 > 5. I think it had a pink flower but could be wrong. Hmm, this sounds like P.agnata * P.gypsicola! The flowers ought to be purple though. Another possiblity is Drosera adelae, it does have pink flowers. But I assume you can tell Drosera and Pinguicula apart.... If it's the Ping, it's probably in the wrong soil and would like to have vermiculite in there too. This cross (unless all-green) can get some very nice shading to it in the right light and four inch long leaves. Dave Evans ################### From: Rand Nicholson Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 09:09:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Mushrooms? >> All, >> The chopped spaghnum in which I'm growing my Darlingtonia seedlings >>developed >> mushrooms yesterday. These mushrooms are extremely tiny (1-2cm) and >>there are >> many of them. They are cream in color. Any ideas of what they are? >> Will this hurt the Darlingtonia? They look kind of cute, actually... > >Hi Cindy, > > Yes, that fungus *can* harm your plants. I have them coming >up in my Nepenthes terrariums, and lately, in the Drosera terrarium. >It nearly killed a P. rosie (but it's not a P.moranenis, so I have >no clue as to it's true ID). To stop it from finishing off the Ping, (snip) >but it is still great for rooting them. For other pots, I changed >the conditions to more reflect the plants' and the Sphagnum's natural >humidity and watering. > > >Dave Evans > >P.S. >Generally, a couple mushrooms popping up here and there is OK, just >keep an eye on the plants near by. A whole pot full in the moss >and around Darlingtonia is bad. If you have mushrooms (toadstools) growing in your chopped sphagnum _ In my experience, it is a sign that you should replace your growing medium. Rand ################### From: MPM7347@ACS.TAMU.EDU Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 7:43:06 -0600 (CST) Subject: VFT leaf cuttings ie. asexual reproduction Has anybody had much experience succesfull or otherwise, with VFT leaf cutting propagation? Thanks Mike ################### From: -Tom- Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 14:02:13 GMT Subject: Re: VFT leaf cuttings ie. asexual reproduction Mike, >Has anybody had much experience succesfull or otherwise, with VFT leaf cutting >propagation? Sure have - I propagate all my mutant vft's that way since they most don't come true from seed. Several methods work with equal results; a few of which I will comment on. Break the back end off the bulb and break apart the individual scales. Lay them in slight depressions in a 50/50 peat sand mix. This leaves a portion of the scale exposed to light which helps speed up plantlet development. Alternately, the leaves that haven't died back below ground can also be used by removing them in the same manner and inserting the base end into the media. I find it easier to unpot the plant so I can see exactly what I am working with and it is easier to remove the leaves completely. Keep the pots bagged or in trays with clear covers. I frequently use 24 hr. fluorescent light which helps keep fungus at a minimum and speeds up their growth. Hope this helps! Take care & keep on growing, -Tom- & Krissy ################### From: Nigel Hurneyman Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:29:11 -0000 Subject: Re: U arenaria If you realy want to kill Utrics, try earthworms! My previously thriving colony of U bisquamata was rapidly downsizing, so I had a poke around to identify the cause. The first leaf I looked at was not attached to a root and had a tiny, translucent baby earthworm apparently attacking it. The second leaf was the same, as were all the leaves. I couldn't find a single root. While the loss of a 'weed' like U bisquamata doesn't grieve me, the loss of the only plants I had of the form with slightly forked leaves does. I can't understand how the worms got there - it must have been quite a trek from my contaminated pygmies. Theoretically, I wonder whether adding earthworms to Sarracenia pots might be a good idea. They should aerate the compost and improve drainage, and bury dead vegetable matter before it attracts fungus. And when they get too rampant, you just pick them off the surface and drop them in a pitcher. And for those in the UK where earthworms are under attack from New Zealand Flatworms, it can even represent a valuable resource towards conserving earthworms (the latter is mild humour at my expense on behalf of professional conservationists). Apparently we Brits now have Australian Flatworms to contend against. These are apparently smaller, pinkish and altogether more effeminate than their New Zealand relatives. Regards, NigelH ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:46:42 -0700 Subject: Call for Adrovanda articles for CPN The September issue of CPN is projected to be dedicated to the genus Aldrovanda. I would be interested in talking to anyone who has made field observations or who has successfully grown this plant. Would you be willing to write an article or even just a few hundred words on your experiences? Does anyone have original, unpublished photographs? Please contact me and we will discuss these things further. Barry Meyers-Rice bazza@indirect.com ################### From: "HaKAN MUREVaeRN" Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:21:02 MET+1MDT Subject: D.falconeri, Byblis I am a lucky owner of a _D.falconeri_ but I have no cultivation information on this plant. I have it in 12 hours artificial light in moist condition and it seems to survive but it do not grow at all (restperiod?). Appreciate any information on this one! THIS IS GREAT. Many thanks to the gentleman on this list who gave me the right stuff (GA3) to germinate _Byblis gigantea_. I know have many tiny seedlings of it (about 20 of 40 seed have germinated within two weeks). I'm also greatful to Brian Cochran for the great description of how to grow it from seed but I do not follow his method exactly. I have not used any fungicide but no sign of "damping off". I tried to cross pollinate _D.prolifera_ with _D.adelae_ but no success. They just seem to flower for fun these two. I will try again. Do not give up hope for a Drosera with heart shaped leaves. Hakan Murevaern Sweden (Having a growing problem on my windowsills because I am running out of space) ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 18:13:40 Subject: Re: Call for Adrovanda articles for CPN Dear online cp community, As Barry has noted already, the September issue of CPN is projected to be dedicated to _Aldrovanda_. I would be interested in talking to anyone who has performed systematical or taxonomic studies in the genus or who has obtained biochemical or genetical data relating to the phylogeny and/or ecology of these plants. Would you be willing to write an article or even just a few hundred words on your experiences? Does anyone have original, unpublished texts? Please contact Barry or myself and we will discuss these things further. Kind regards Jan Schlauer schlauer@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de ################### From: Michael Homick Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:24:05 -0800 Subject: Re: U arenaria Nigel Hurneyman wrote: > > If you realy want to kill Utrics, try earthworms! My previously thriving > colony of U bisquamata was rapidly downsizing, so I had a poke around > to identify the cause. The first leaf I looked at was not attached to a root > and had a tiny, translucent baby earthworm apparently attacking it. The > second leaf was the same, as were all the leaves. I couldn't find a single > root. While the loss of a 'weed' like U bisquamata doesn't grieve me, the > loss of the only plants I had of the form with slightly forked leaves does. > I can't understand how the worms got there - it must have been quite a > trek from my contaminated pygmies. > SNIP.. If you found no adult worms and the small transluscent 'worms' were all about 2-3mm long with a blackish gut line visible, then the chances are you have an infestation of Fungus Gnats. The adults look like small fruit flies that flitter around from pot to pot. They thrive on the moist conditions in which many CP's grow. The larvae also spin webbing over the soil surface. If the webbing is evident then you have a Fungus Gnat problem. The larvae can be very destructive! Michael ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 11:38:07 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: U arenaria Hi al, > > If you found no adult worms and the small transluscent 'worms' were all > about 2-3mm long with a blackish gut line visible, then the chances are > you have an infestation of Fungus Gnats. The adults look like small > fruit flies that flitter around from pot to pot. They thrive on the > moist conditions in which many CP's grow. The larvae also spin webbing > over the soil surface. If the webbing is evident then you have a Fungus > Gnat problem. The larvae can be very destructive! > Michael > I've seen these in the greenhouse before. They certainly do like to hang around pots of CP's where it's moist. The Drosera pigged out on them, but they kept reproducing. Any ideas on how to effectively and safely get rid of these guys? TIA. Chris Chris Teichreb Department of Biology University of Regina Regina, Saskatchewan, CANADA teichrch@Meena.CC.URegina.CA ################### From: Chris Marsden <100620.2156@CompuServe.COM> Date: 22 Jan 97 12:33:21 EST Subject: Re: R.I.P sarracenia nurseries Hi All, > > I don't mean to be rude, but I think Sarracenia Nurseries has ..er.."ceased > > trading" ...well jacked it in. I think the owners have given up. > > Could someone > > correct me if I'm wrong please? > > > Yes, you're right. They told me on the phone that they had decided > to give up the > business after 20 years, and for a very odd (and difficult to believe) reason: > the British postal system was losing over 50% of their shipments. > I always thought > the British postal system was famed for its efficiency - hmmm... Anyway, they closed > up shop so quickly that they even decided not to send half of my PREPAID order! After > over 10 long-distance phone calls and several faxes requesting they send the remaining > stuff, I finally gave up too. Well that's not what I heard. At the risk of dirt-dishing, I was told (probably third, fourth or twenty-fifth hand) that the owners had... er... /fallen out/. I understand they had mistrusted each other for some /years and finally they had given up. This may well not (and probably isn't) totally true but it's what I have heard. If the person who told me is listening and wished to elaborate, please go ahead. Kind regards, Toby Marsden ################### From: Glenn Rankin Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 12:18:08 PST Subject: germinating tuberous Drosera Hi Russell, D. auriculata has germinated for me quite readily. I hadn't expected this, so I only planted half for this wet season. The others I was going to put on top of the medium to enjoy our hot dry summer to see if that made a difference. I haven't had trouble getting some tuberous drosera to germinate: peltata, macrantha ssp. macrantha, macrantha ssp. planchonii, heterophylla, menziesii ssp. penicillaris, ramellosa. With others, I've only had sparing luck so far: stolonifera ssp. porrecta, stolonifera ssp. stolonifera, stolonifera ssp. humilis, gigantea, gigantea ssp. geniculata, platypoda. The most difficult seem to be rosetted species: lowriei, erythrorhiza ssp. erythrorhiza, erythrorhiza ssp. squamosa, macrophylla ssp. macrophylla, macrophylla ssp. monantha, bulbosa ssp. major, bulbosa ssp. bulbosa, erythrorhiza ssp. magna. On the other hand, D. whittakeri seeds have yielded well. For some reason I've had somewhat better luck with seeds from sources other than Lowrie, but I haven't fully sorted that out yet. Each test or experiment takes more than a year to complete. With the difficult drosera above I gave a cool smoke treatment to the seeds (and the medium they were on), but it didn't help any. They were subject to an hour of very dense smoke from smoldering eucaplyptus leaves. There were enough nutrients deposited from the treatment that a layer of algae grew on gravel pieces and wetted parts of the pots. No such algae appeared in or on the control pots. I did get flowering from one of the stolonifera ssp. porrecta I treated. (On the other hand, my experience confirms that it does make a big difference with B. gigantea.) Regards, Glenn Rankin rankin@hpl.hp.com > > Glenn, > > How are those D.auriculata going? Anyway, I think I may > know why you aren't getting very good germination results. > I think most Australian tuberous Drosera seed require fire to > to germinate. A freind of mine has used smoke pads available > from Frank Wolpert in South Africa to stimulate Byblis > gigantea seed to germinate. > > Most of the tuberous Drosera from Allen Lowrie come from > the heathlands of Western Australia. Here, fire is an important > factor in shaping the way the plants grow there. When a fire > burns through, all of the adult plants are burned, and release > their seed. Also, seed that has been lying previously dormant > in the soil are stimulated into germinating by the chemicals and > heat provided by the fire. Those smoke pads I was talking about > earlier are impregnated with the same chemicals produced by the > fire. You place one of these in water with the seed you want > to germinate, and leave them to soak for about 24 hours. The > person I was telling you about earlier had never managed to > germinate Byblis gigantea before, but after the smoke pad > tratement, he got a very high rate of germination. If you > want to know how to obtain some of these smoke pads, contact > me on one of the email addresses below. > > Hope this Helps, > > Russell. > -- > > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > ! Russell Elliott ! > ! Seed Bank Director, ! > ! Australian Carnivorous Plant Society ! > ! mailto:relliott@geocities.com ! > ! mailto:elliott@nexus.edu.au ! > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > > ################### From: Phil Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 20:17:06 GMT Subject: Re: Konnichiwa! In your message dated Thursday 16, January 1997 you wrote : > Konnichiwa Phil-san, > > Please, pardon my silence which you must not forgive. > Because of my poor English skill, I understood that you were removing. > And then,I thought I must know your new address. I appologise for confusing you. I have now moved. My new address is printed below. > About H.tatei > There is not vigor in them now. Especially, Marahuaca weakens very much. > I send Huachamacari in the spring to you. If Marahuaca dies, I can not > send it immediately. Because, it is the very last one. However, I have > one Marahuaca in In-vitro. I increase and send it early to you as far > as it is possible. This is fine. I am happy to wait until the spring to send these plants as the weather here is quite cold at the moment. > At least You must not send Sarracenia seeds until you receive > Huchamacari. Please allow me to send the Sarrecenia seeds to you!! You will want to get them sowed soon and they are not doing any good waiting here for me to send them. I trust you to send plants to me when they are ready. This is the way that friends trade. > I want to restore relation with you. > I send Heliamphora seeds(very fresh native seed) to you as a proof of > apologizes. > Where should I send it? Very welcome! My address to send the seed is: Phil Wilson 14, Rope Walk Martock Somerset TA12 6HZ England Do you possibly have any seed from native Japanese D. peltata? I have been trying to get this plant from Japan for a long time now. > Kindest regards from Japan > Isao > > > -- Phil Wilson (cp@pwilson.demon.co.uk) ################### From: Gary Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:24:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: Zombie VFT flower stalk... Hi Everyone-- A couple of weeks ago, I snipped the flower stalk of my errant VFT and on a whim decided to see what would happen when I buried the cut end under some strands of sphagnum. I laid the six inch stem across the surface of the pot and weighted the flowering tip down with another strand of sphagnum. I left the pot out where its been since early fall, exposed to the elements (wind, rain, San Francisco fog, direct sun, temps dipping down into the upper 30's). To my surprise, the flowering tip perked up and is now bending upward and the buds have noticably swelled and are taking on the characteristic whitish hue of buds about to flower. When I originally did this I had my fingers crossed for forcing apoxymis. Instead, it seems as though the stalk will flower. Has anyone else come across this? Gary p.s.: My four other VFTs are STILL producing new leaves. As the elder daughter in _Poltergeist_ screamed: "WHAT'S HAPPENING!?" ################### From: diane Lehman Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 21:20:01 -0500 Subject: Flys And Venus Fly Traps Hi, I have a couple of questions: First, about a week ago I started noticing flys in my terrarium, at first I thought they were just lingering fruit flys. But they started to multiply. There are hardly any left now but I would like to know where they came from, If anyone has had a similar problem any help is appreciated. Second I am looking for any "red" type venus fly trap seeds or plants, I am desperate to get some. If someone can help me that would be great. Bye for now, Sincerely, Josh Lehman ################### From: Piers Trehane Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 01:24:50 +0000 Subject: What is a protologue? In answer to Paul Temple's query, the protologue is _everything_ associated with a name upon its valid publication (establishment in the newer terminology of e.g., the BioCode). The word is one of the few defined in the International Code of Botanical Nomenclature (ICBN) in the footnote pertaining to Art. 9.4 in the current edition (Tokyo Code 1994) which says: " Protologue (from the Greek _protos_, first: _logos_, discourse): everything associated with a name at its valid publication, i.e., description or diagnosis, illustrations, references, synonymy, geograpica data, citation of specimens, discussion, and comments." Thus when a taxon is described in such a way as to effect establishment, all data pertaining to the new name, no matter where it may lie within that publication may be considered part of its protologue. It is usual to publish new names in a pre-ordained sequence according to the editorial practice of the particular publication but very often further information may be given in an introduction, appendix or by illustration elsewhere in the publication: all these elements form part of the protologue. Hope this helps - Piers -- Piers Trehane Rapporteur, International Code of Nomenclature for Cultivated Plants Member, Editorial Committee for the International Code of Botanical Nomenclatur e Member, IUBS/IUMS Committee for Bionomenclature ################### From: Fernando Rivadavia Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:28:54 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: D.uniflora cultivation Jan and all, >First, I do not have any experience with the cultivation of _D. >uniflora_ (does anyone on this list?). I know 3 people who do and all three got their plants from the same source in early 1991. Randy Lamb (HI Randy! - and to the aussies, brits, and kiwis it's no joke, that's his name, but I don't think he minds if you make the usual jokes!) from Canada did quite a tour through South America in 1990/91, passing through most countries if I remember well, including Brazil, where we met and I had a chance to show him some CPs near Sao Paulo city. In fact, he even wrote 2 articles about this trip for CPN, although a whole page was omitted and was never published afterwards. Anyways, Randy went all the way down to Tierra del Fuego and collected D.uniflora, as well as the P.antarctica which a few people now have in-vitro (including you Jan). Randy sent me some plants while heading north through Chile and I hate to say there were many of them and even seeds, but I eventually lost them all, as expected. Before I did though, I did send some plants back to Randy in Canada and even some seeds to Bruce Salmon in New Zealand, but I don't believe either of them had success. So there you have 3 people who've at least tried cultivating D.uniflora. If Randy sent seeds/plants to others (I don't know) then maybe there are more of us. Who knows, maybe someone even still has a few live plants in their collections! > >> Hopefully I'll get seeds to spread to in-vitro workers. The plants >> I intend to pass on to responsible cultivators here in Japan. Yet the >> plants should be at the height of their growing season at the moment, >> it being summer in the S Hemisphere. > >Summer yes, hot no. Who said anything about hot? I agree with you though that the best way to cultivate them would be to maintain them under lights with long photoperiods at the moment and later on put them in the freezer until next winter. And the winter here is truly similar to this plant's summer, with temperatures usually between 0-10C. But to put them in vitro is probably our best bet at the moment. Hopefully I'll get mature seeds with these plants (which BTW will only arrive on Saturday now). So get your tubes ready Isao-san!! There's gonna be another meeting of the Japanese CPS this Sunday and I'll take the seeds and plants there so we can discuss what to do with them. Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia Tokyo, Japan ################### From: Fernando Rivadavia Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:33:28 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: U.arenaria and worms To all, HA! My U.arenaria had no problems at all with worms! I'm serious this plant is really the king of weeds! I used to have a TERRIBLE problem with worms in my greenhouse back in Brazil. I think it was some native species which came along in one of my collecting trips. All I know is that it was small, thin, and reddish and soon invaded almost every pot I had. It did the most damage in the pots where I was germinating seeds. Yet U.arenaria kept right on growing, flowering, and doing what it does best: invading other pots! The worms didn't even seem to slow it down! Condolences to those who have U.arenaria, Fernando Rivadavia Tokyo, Japan ################### From: Fernando Rivadavia Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:58:07 +0900 (JST) Subject: Genlisea germination: G.aurea and G.uncinata Ed, >experiments. After recieving some G. violacea seed from Fernando >when he visited me, I put them in a petri dish on bibulous paper, >added a little water of course,and later had a fairly decent amount >of seed germinate. I transplanted the seedlings and then let the >dishes contents dry out. Exactly a year later I added some water to >the same dish (untouched since I took the germinated seeds out) and >later had some more seeds germinate. Once again a year later, I >repeated the same process and to my surprise some more seeds >germinated. The number of seeds germinating decreased each time. >What a wonderfull thing! This gives me hope when I hear that a good >G. site received little water a certain year or completely dried out >for a season. The only problem is hat most G.violacea forms are annual in the wild and thus are probably adapted to germinating after a dry period. Yet G.aurea (which was the one I had mentioned about a specific population which dried out and no plants there the next season) is perennial and it appears that it doesn't even flower every year in many populations. Considering also how big it is, I imagine it takes several years to attain maturity, or at least attain the 5cm rosettes which used to be present at that specific site. So hopefully there were seeds around to germinate in that population, or else it'll take even longer for seeds from another site to find their way there and start again. As to G.uncinata, I have just heard a report from someone who obtained Genlisea seeds from my friend Fabio last year. He says the G.uncinata seedlings (only 2 or 3) are growing very slowly, while numerous G.violacea seeds germinated and are growing very fast, and G.aurea never did germinate. I would like to hear from other people who have tried germinating Genlisea seeds, specially in regards to G.uncinata and G.aurea. Has anyone been successful? What about the in-vitro workers? Any luck with G.uncinata Andreas?? Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia Tokyo, Japan ################### From: uzsb09@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de (Jens Rotthauwe) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 05:21:04 -0800 Subject: Utricularia spec. Hi ! I just got an Utricularia species from our local botanic garden. They could not tell me the name - only that it is probably from Africa. The leaves are tiny and grasslike, about 0.5cm long. There are several flowers on a stem of about 8cm. These flowers have a maximum diameter of about 0.7cm, a somewhat rhomb-like outline and a short white spur. To me it seems that they have only two petals, the upper one being very tiny and yellow, the other bigger and yellow in the upper, white in the lower part. Any idea what species this is ? Thanks for your help. Jens ---------------- ---------------------------- Jens Rotthauwe Tel.:0228-642161 Im Erlengrund 21 e-mail: 53347 Alfter uzsb09@ibm.rhrz.uni-bonn.de GERMANY ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:45:41 Subject: Re: Utricularia spec. Dear Jens, > I just got an Utricularia species from our local botanic garden. > They could not tell me the name - only that it is probably from Africa. > The leaves are tiny and grasslike, about 0.5cm long. There are several > flowers on a stem of about 8cm. These flowers have a maximum diameter of > about 0.7cm, a somewhat rhomb-like outline and a short white spur. > To me it seems that they have only two petals, the upper one being very > tiny and yellow, the other bigger and yellow in the upper, white in the > lower part. > Any idea what species this is ? It may be one of approx. 20 spp. Do you have a microscope or a good lens? First try to find out if the flowers are supported on flattened and laterally winged pedicels. Then look if the bract and bracteoles (the leaves subtending the flowers) are projecting below their point of attachment. Then try to unearth a trap and examine the appendages at the trap opening carefully (how many appendages/ridges, how are these arranged around the trap opening, are they glandular?). Then examine the ripe fruits and their mode of dehiscence (do they open with one or two slits, are the slits thickened along the line of dehiscence?). Then examine the seed testa carefully (how are the seeds and their testa cells shaped, are they ridged longitudinally or papillose?). Then send another email including these data. Another method is to get a copy of Taylor s monograph and compare the plant with his drawings/descriptions or to browse the growlists of some cp growers and exclude all those names which sound unlikely (e.g. of all aquatic species). Gruesse Jan ################### From: "Phil Semanchuk" pj@glaxowellcome.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 15:46:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Venus Flytraps and Sundews > I am 9 years old and have 1 venus flytrap. I want > to know how to grow venus flytraps and sundews > without them wilting. I have tried giving them > almost every sort of insect, but they always seem to > die! I also have trouble keeping the right > temperature in the terrarium and I can not figure > out how much water they need. Any suggestions? > Derek Derek, Venus Flytraps (tricky scientific name: Dionaea muscipula) like pretty wet soil. Most people grow them in a pot filled with a 1:1 mix of sand and peat and that sits in a tray of water. The tray should always have about an inch of water in it. The water is another matter. Flytraps and CPs in general are very fussy about their water being very pure. Rainwater is good. You can also buy distilled water in the supermarket buy that gets expensive very quickly. Depending on where you live, you might be able to grow your Flytrap outside. You might find that easier than trying to regulate the heat in a terrarium. It will also be easier for you to give your flytrap enough light if it is outside. They like just about as much sun as they can get. Most of what I said here will also apply to your sundew, although there are different kinds of sundews and they don't all have the same preferences. Here's some places to go for more information -- The CP FAQ is full of good information and has links to other CP-related places on the Web. You can find it at: http://www.indirect.com/www/bazza/cps/faq/faq.html Your local public library should also have a book or two on CPs and I'll bet the Univ. of Michigan library has lots. You can also learn a lot just by reading this list. Good luck Derek, I hope this helps. Let us know how this works out for you! Phil ################### From: Chris.Breckpot@olvz-aalst.be Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:03:18 +0200 Subject: seeds from Lowrie Glenn Rankin recently wrote : >Allen Lowrie's current catalog is now available \001( >If you've never seen it, it's worth a look. He has a very large selection \001( >\001( >Be cautioned, however, that some of his seeds are difficult to >germinate. For instance, I have been trying to get D. gigantea from >him to germinate for more than two years. >\001( Hi all, Indeed, Lowrie/s seed list is very impressive. My experience is that the number of his seeds that germinate is far less impressive ! For three consecutive years, I ordered a number of seeds. The results were very poor. I am not talking about tricky things like Australian cp seeds which are known to be slow in germinating. Even the easy ones, like Sarracenia, did not came up. Seeds from other sources, treated identically, germinated like nothing. I guess some of his seeds are not stored properly or/and are simply too old. Why does he not indicate the date of collection like some other companies do ? If I were alone, I would not have posted this message, but the fact is that I have heard more complaints about the quality of his seeds. Right or just bad luck ? I would like to hear the opinion of other subscribers. Best regards, Christian Breckpot ################### From: Oliver.Gluch@t-online.de (Oliver Gluch) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 19:06 +0100 Subject: cultivation of temperate Pinguicula hello to everybody, I have some questions about cultivation of temperate Pings: I was trying to cultivate certain temperate Pinguicula species for about three years. I cultivate them in pots outside from spring to fall (temperatures min. 5\260C and max. 30\260). In winter I kept the winter buds together with wet sphagnum moss in an plastic bag in my refrigerator. Temperatures were about 4\260C. The winter buds stayed dormant during the period in the refrigerator and produced nice plants in spring again. This year I bought a new refrigerator, but now temperatures inside are about 6\260C. Now, after the plants got stocked 2 months in the refrigerator, I have recognised that some of the buds got small non-carnivorous leaves (size about 0,5 cm) at the base of the bud. Does anyone know if these temperatures in the refrigerator are to high and it will break dormancy ? Or is the production of these small outer leaves normal? (I especially talk of P. longifolia, P. grandiflora and P. macroceras). Outside temperature range here in the northern part of Germany is about 6\260C at day and 2\260C at night at the moment. Are these conditions better for the buds to rest dormant? Would temperatures during night below the freezing point destroy the buds (Remember that I must keep the plants in pots outside)? I'm looking forward to your answers. Oliver ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Oliver Gluch Lindenalle 44 26122 Oldenburg Germany Phone/Fax: +49-441-72618 eMail: Oliver.Gluch@t-online.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ################### From: Glenn Rankin Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:19:25 PST Subject: Freezing Drosophyllum As some have reported on this list, it got unusally cold here in the SF bay area the beginning of last week. Those of us who have most of our plants outside got a chance to test them for cold hardiness. :-( One of mine that showed especially interesting behavior was Drosophyllum. It is about 2 years old with 20-25 cm leaves. It got below freezing for two nights: -5C the second night, but not so cold the first. The morning after the first freeze, the plant was wilted. I've seen that before when the soil gets too dry, so I watered and sure enough, the plant returned to its original posture. Well, the next morning, it was wilted even more, but I knew it wasn't for lack of water, so I brought the plant into the house to warm up. In about 15-20 minutes the plant had recovered! :-) I then remembered that I watered the previous morning just as the sun started to warm things up, so it looks like warming the plant induced it to stand up straight on both days. In the period since, no permanent damage has become visible. I guess this species is adapted to short excursions into subfreezing temperatures. The speed with which turgor returned upon warming was quite surprising to me. It was also a big relief to see that I hadn't killed the plant. Glenn Rankin rankin@hpl.hp.com ################### From: jellison@ceps.nasm.edu (Pat Jellison) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 15:56:49 EST Subject: Hmmm...could I use RO fishtank water for CPs? Hello esteemed CP-ers, Here's a question over which I've been puzzling. I have but one terrarium, covered, with CPs in it (one VFT, three pitcher plants (not sure of species) and one Cape sundew). I have a ready source of RO water since we use it for certain of our south american cichlid fishtanks. The question: We do water changes on these fishtanks. Would it be ok, even good, to use the "discard" water from the tanks? It would basically be RO water with small amounts of fish waste added. I use this water on my non-CP plants and they grow extremely well with the fish-waste as fertilizer. We do not add any chemicals to the tanks, BTW. Any thoughts? Pat (who hates to waste anything!) jellison@ceps.nasm.edu ################### From: Andrew Marshall Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 12:53:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: Drosopyllum experiences Hello all, Things here in Seattle were not so lucky for me at least. We lost power for a total of 4 nights and 5 days with temps getting down, in the greenhouse to 40'f. I am guessing it was lower around the edges as that has been where the damage was. Outside temps were well below freezing, with 2' of snow and ice on the ground. My Drosophllum was in the SE corner, furthest away from the lantern that I was forced by unfortunate circumstances to use as a heater. It was about 2 yrs old, rather large with many leaves and two main stems. It wilted as I have seen others do in cold snaps but there was a difference. With nothing to warm the greenhouse up for four days, the sky being overcast so not even solar energy was available, it did not recover. I didn't think to move it as there was really no place to move it to and I had never lost one to this sort of thing before. I have had them go through worse, though for much less time. By the time it did warm up again, at least in the greenhouse, it was to late. My Drosophyllum is dead. I think if it had been able to warm up in the mornings, perhaps like Glenns it would have rebounded but I do not think it liked sustained cold. Many of my Heliamphora are also now dying as well. I have learned the hard way that one needs not only a back up heat source, but a back up for that as well. I am still waiting for the parts I need for the back up heater. Hopefully the next cold snap will not bring the power down again. So much for my luck this year. Any one out there got any spare Drosophyllum seed please? Thanks and good growing Andrew ps. Interestingly, I only lost one N. ampullaria cutting and one N. rafflesiana cutting. Lowland N. are amazingly forgiving. The highlanders didn't even blink so far in all this. ################### From: dave evans Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 17:33 EST Subject: Re: D.falconeri, Byblis Hi Hakan, > I am a lucky owner of a _D.falconeri_ but I have no cultivation information > on this plant. I have it in 12 hours artificial light in moist condition and > it seems to survive but it do not grow at all (restperiod?). Appreciate any > information on this one! It can be treated like most temperate Drosera, but it does like a little extra heat. 1:1 peat sand and *bright* light will work. Bring the hours of light up some. About 14 hours should be right for this one in summer, 11 in winter. These plants (the whole group) do not like cool temps at all and will probably respond well if you keep the summer days above 80~F. (29~C.). I have a couple D. sp. Beverly Springs (erect) plants growing at around 80~F. and they look healthy. > I tried to cross pollinate _D.prolifera_ with _D.adelae_ but no success. > They just seem to flower for fun these two. I will try again. Do not give up > hope for a Drosera with heart shaped leaves. Keep trying! (I still hope D.pro. and D.schizandra will cross, if only my D.schi. would flower.) Dave Evans ################### From: KenC@casadyg.com Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 14:37:29 PST Subject: RE: Zombie VFT flower stalk Gary, You wrote: When I read this I couldn\325t help but chuckle a little. I had the very same response (for the same reason). However, I had one bud actually flower before the whole stalk suddenly went black. Very odd! Although there will be many who disagree with me, I firmly believe that VFT do not need a complete dormancy (no growth at all). I have 5 large pots full of VFT outside and they have been thriving now for about 4 years. The closest to dormancy I have ever seen is the loss of the longer, larger leaves in favor of much shorter, closer-to-the-ground types every Fall. None of them have ever stopped growing altogether, and yet each Spring they come back bigger than ever (in fact, I may have to divide & re-plant this Spring). Usually, I do cut back on the watering a bit, but this year we have had so much rain it has been almost impossible. Hope this helps! Ken Cusson, Secretary/Treasurer ICPS ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 16:36:56 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Hmmm...could I use RO fishtank water for CPs? Hi Pat, > Hello esteemed CP-ers, > > The question: We do water changes on these fishtanks. Would > it be ok, even good, to use the "discard" water from the tanks? > It would basically be RO water with small amounts of fish > waste added. I use this water on my non-CP plants and they > grow extremely well with the fish-waste as fertilizer. We > do not add any chemicals to the tanks, BTW. > > Any thoughts? > > Pat (who hates to waste anything!) > jellison@ceps.nasm.edu > Personally, I'd say that adding this water to your CP's once in a while would probably be ok. However, since CP's grow in nutrient poor soils, you wouldn't want to do this too often as it would probably kill them. I use fish waste water for my 'regular' plants and they love it. Haven't been brave enough to try it on CP's, although it's a very natural source. Let us know if you do, I'm sure I'm not the only one interested in the results! Regards, Chris Chris Teichreb Department of Biology University of Regina Regina, Saskatchewan, CANADA teichrch@Meena.CC.URegina.CA ################### From: KenC@casadyg.com Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 14:42:49 PST Subject: RE: Flys And Venus Fly Traps Josh, You wrote: I wouldn\325t worry about them, expecially if they are disappearing. They probably came from eggs that came with your shagnum/peat moss. This is very common. You might check with Dean Cook (cooks@cyberhighway.net), if he has any left. He has excellent prices and is very, very helpful. His plants are always of the highest quality and he stands by them. Hope this helps! Ken Cusson, Secretary/Treasurer ICPS ################### From: dave evans Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 18:33 EST Subject: Re: cultivation of temperate Pinguicula > From: Oliver.Gluch@T-ONLINE.DE(Oliver Gluch) > > refrigerator are to high and it will break dormancy ? Or is the > production of > these small outer leaves normal? (I especially talk of P. > longifolia, P. grandiflora and P. macroceras). Hello Oliver, I recently received some P. longifolia from Europe (thanks Nigel). While in the mail, they started to break domancy. At first I thought they were doomed. To see if I could save them, I placed the gemmae in a pot of soil which went in the fridge. In the dark and cold, they continued to grow. I took them out and of the three, two appear to have started their normal growth while the third (which was the smallest and didn't look to have ended dormancy) might be dying :( My advice would be to remove any Pings which have their centers openning up and plant them. Otherwise, they will eliolate and probably die. Of couse, if they have not started growing, taking them out early seems to kill them too. I think the outer leaf scales loosen up some before the buds actually start to grow so your plants may be starting sooner than what you want. Just check them now and then to see if they continue to grow (some might, if not all). I would not start freezing them at this point (if they have loosened up for spring, it would not be good). > Would temperatures during night below the freezing point destroy > the buds (Remember that I must keep the plants in pots outside)? Not normally, if they are truely at rest, they can take the lowest temps of all CPs! Perhaps they can be more easily stored in a freezer? Dave Evans ################### From: dave evans Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 19:01 EST Subject: Re: seeds from Lowrie > From: Chris.Breckpot@OLVZ-AALST.BE > > If I were alone, I would not have posted this message, but the > fact is that I have heard more complaints about the quality of > his seeds. I haven't ordered from him but a couple of my friends have. Like you they haven't gotten very good results. I caution against ordering stuff like Sarracenia as Alan probably gets these seeds already old from people over here. Anyway, I have never had anything mailed from Australia germinate so I don't if this Alan's problem or something the mail goes through on it's way to here. The last thing I got was some N.ampullaria seed, which did germinate for the grower over there (hi Meryl!), so it's not as though the seed from that batch was bad. Still have to keep the pot for a while yet so it may come up, but... I have had good results with ICPS seed bank. If you can order something from them and Alan, order it from ICPS. That's something most people already do (getting their seed from local sources) and may have helped Alan stock pile so much old seed ;) Dave EVans ################### From: dave evans Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 19:48 EST Subject: Re: Re: CP identification Hi David, > From: "Mellard, David" > > Great big belly laugh about your assuming that I can tell the > difference between a Drosera and a Ping. It certainly doesn't look > like D. capillaris (the only Drosera in my collection), and the > color green is definitely the shade of green I've seen on Pings, > hence my assumption that it is a Ping. Well, some Drosera do have green traps but they are much larger than the traps on Pinguicula which, when veiwed from a couple feet, just give the leaf a sheen. Drosera, on the other hand, have their traps sticking far off the leaf by several mm and when veiwed from close by you can still see the individaul traps like drops of morning dew. Some Drosera, like D.adelae, can be green if the light is on the weak side (like what you find at stores). > Thanks for the response Dave. I'm certain it's not D. adelae since > I have killed many before learning their secrets. And you're right > about the flower. Also, a Ping flower will/should have a spur sticking out the back and this cross ought to have some white parts to the flower (not one solid shade of purple, anyway). > It was closer to purple; I'm just not that good with color shades. > I guess I need to get the rejects from Barry's Crayola set. It seems odd > that it's a cross because the other cp's on display from this unknown > company (to me) were species: a N. madagascarensis, a D. schizandra (I'm > sure the spelling is wrong here, but think you'll know anyway the one I > mean.) along with the typical VFT and D. capensis. Ok, the leaves on the cross are strap-like. That's the best way to describe them. The winter leaves are much thinner and about one to two inches long and have white hairs not traps. I know the company you're talking about. At the Philly Flower Con last year, I purchased a P.agnata * P.gyspicola from their display. They also had: D.adelae, VFT; a collection containing D.intermedia, some other Mexican Ping, D.filiformis, D.capensis and dead stuff I could not ID; and several other plants. I guess the reasoning behind selling a hybrid is that they are easier to grow, get much bigger than the parents and asexaully reproduce very easily (this plant is the D.capensis of Pings). Basically, what CPs this guy/gal can TC easily and quickly get put on store shelves, where they slowly die. Don't worry about it though, they all came from only a couple seed (I hope). Dave Evans ################### From: "Carl Mazur" Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 20:52:48 -0800 Subject: Seeds. Hi all. I was reading some mail, and was noticing some comments about the germination rates (or lack thereof) of Alan Lowries Sarracenia seed. Before we question the quality of seed, I think we should look at the stratification of that seed. Sarracenia seed remains viable for many years. Infact, I've germinated 10 year old seed with no difficulty. I do admit the % of germination is reduced to 50% or less, You can conceivably get 7 or 15 seedlings to germinate from a packet of 25 seeds. The key to getting older seed to germinate is a good stratification! The only time I found stratification not needed were times with seed that has been refridgerated for 3 or 4 months, harvested the previous fall. Even then, stratification increases the germination rate. If you give seed a good 2-3 month , moist stratification, you can get the oldest Sarr seed to germinate fairly well. I'd be interested to hear others experience with older seed and stratification. Best Regards, Carl J.Mazur Cherryhill Carnivorous Plants Grimsby, ON Canada http://www.vaxxine.com/ccphome ################### From: dave evans Date: Thu, 23 Jan 97 21:08 EST Subject: Re: Re: D.uniflora cultivation tips Hi List, I recently received a single (and so far, living) P.antartica. A friend had several but fungus gnat larvae ate a large portion of them, so he could only give me a pot with one left. It's on it's third true leaf from seed and I'm hoping not to kill it! > In vitro, the likewise extreme S-American _P. antarctica_ grows all > year through with "resting" periods (slower growth and higher > mortality) of about 3 months, a behaviour similar to that of the > arctic _P. villosa_ in vitro (which forms hibernaculae in a similar > rhythm). Thanks for this bit on their care. Can anyone elaborate some? I haven't heard anything else besides the above so any info might help. I take it they don't like heat... What temps are ok, what do they grow on, should I put it in the fridge for summer, ect??? Thanks, Dave Evans ################### From: steiger@iae.unibe.ch (Juerg Steiger) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:17:12 +0100 Subject: Re: cultivation of temperate Pinguicula Oliver The problem of vernalization (to early sprouting) is the crux of all growers of plants of cool climate areas. In CPN 4/1:8-18 (March 1975) I gave a double-side table with the cultivation temperatures of all known (at that time) Pinguicula species of the temperate growth type.The ideal dormancy temperature for the species you mentioned (P. grandiflora, longifolia, macroceras) was indicated as (plus) 1C / 34F. After cultivating these species nearly 30 years now I can only confirm this figure. Your present fridge temperature of 6C is definitevely to high. At natural habitats the earliest sprouting northern species are P. longifolia subsp. reichenbachian, P. macroceras subsp. nortensis and lowland populations of P. alpina. Their hibernacula beginn to spread and develop leaves already in March/April. The other species come later. The latest species are P. algida, P. variegata and alpine populations of P. alpina, balcanica, leptoceras (mid-June). I have my (sub)alpine and (sub)arctic Pings in a greenhouse which is cooled all the year as long as temperatures are obove the freezing point, resulting in winter temperatures of (plus)1-4C (summer maxima around 20C). If outside temperatures are below the freezing point (we had now just 4 weeks with day maxima below 0C, night down to -16C) a little heater prevents the plants from heavy freezing and keeps it around -1 to plus 2C. The species requiring longterm freezing (P. algida and variegata) are stored in a special freezer at -8 to -3C. If once a hibernaculum has sprouted it must given the opportunity to grow - if frozen it will perish. The consequence of early sprouting is early development of winter buds (in July/August) which usually do not survive. The ecological tolerance of northern cool climate Pings is rather small and it is necessary to imitate as well as possible the conditions of natural habitats. Good growing! Juerg ___________________________________________________ Juerg Steiger, Institut fuer Aus-, Weiter- und Fortbildung IAWF University of Bern, Inselspital 37a, CH-3010 Bern, Switzerland Office: +41 31 632 9887 Fax: +41 31 632 9871 ################### From: Russell Elliott Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:45:11 -0800 Subject: Re: VFT leaf cuttings ie. asexual reproduction MPM7347@ACS.TAMU.EDU wrote: > > Postage paid by: [Image] > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Has anybody had much experience succesfull or otherwise, with VFT leaf cutting > propagation? > Thanks > Mike Mike, I have grown them from flower stalks, but it is much easier to use leaves. Just tey and pull a leaf off with its white base (careful not to pull the whole plant up!), dip it in a rooting hormone, and place it into a peat+ sand mix. This method works for me. -- *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ! Russell Elliott ! ! Seed Bank Director, ! ! Australian Carnivorous Plant Society ! ! mailto:relliott@geocities.com ! ! mailto:elliott@nexus.edu.au ! *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ################### From: MPM7347@ACS.TAMU.EDU Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 7:38:27 -0600 (CST) Subject: Sand blasting sand. One more question guys/gals... I read somewhere .. yet cannot recall where.. that sandblasting sand would be good sand... It contains silica.. yet it is not completely white. I went out on a limb and puchased a bag of the medium grade.. I thought maybe the courser grade would mean better drainage so I decided on an average. I have checked everywhere in my city for pure white silica sand.. all I find is 'all-purpose sand which also contains silica but is not completely white... and some other suspicious sands such as 'Play-sand' Anyway.... Does anybody have any suggestions as to where I may find some Silica sand.,.. and/or... is the sandblasting sand containing silica suitable? Thankyou so much! Mike ################### From: "Loyd Wix" Date: 24 Jan 1997 13:43:18 Z Subject: Mr Lowries Seeds Dear All, Christian Breckpot wrote: >Right or just bad luck ? I would like to hear the >opinion of other subscribers. Over the years I have obtained a considerable quantity of seed from Allen with various degrees of success. In recent years most of the seeds I have obtained from him are Aussie species. With Utrics my success rates vary from high germination rates with stuff from south and south western Australia to low rates with the tropical northern species. With the tropical northern species my success rate is approx 20% of species germinating. There is an element of luck in this as a number of growers in the UK were successful in germinating U.dunlopii where as I was not. I have however succeeded in germinating U.cappilliflora on the 5th attempt! As mentioned in previous E-mails the general view is that many of these species are difficult to germinate however NOT impossible - a bit of luck and persistence pays off. Most recently I obtained seed of a considerable number of Tropical Drosera and I have been delighted by obtaining germination with most of the species so far. In the past I have bought Sarracenia seed from Allens list. Some times no germination on other occasions every seed comes up. Some seed has germinated only after 2 years. It should perhaps be remembered that not all of Allens seed are collected by him and he trades seeds all over the place. There are many people on the list server who contribute to Allens list through trade. Thus the quality of some of Allens seed depends much on the quality of what people have sent him. Also don't forget that bad seed is not the only reason for poor germination rates, conditions light and compost etc can be very important. There are I believe chemicals available to check the viability of seed which only stain live tissue, perhaps this is one way to determine seed quality before planting. Any one out there familiar with these chemicals? Regards Loyd ################### From: L235@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:23:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: D. capensis flower stalk cuttings Just what we need, ANOTHER way to propagate D. capensis... As I was pruning back D. capensis flower scapes over the summer past, as a lark I cut them up into inch-long pieces and pushed them into the soil horizontally.... I've just noticed (in the middle of our winter) that several of them have sent up plantlets. Is this noteworthy? (I've heard of this being attempted with VFT flower scapes, but have never heard of it for Drosera) Has anyone else attempted this, seen results? Anyone want the resulting offspring? (just kidding) Jay Lechtman (L235@aol.com) ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:45:42 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: D. capensis flower stalk cuttings Hi all, > > As I was pruning back D. capensis flower scapes over the summer > past, as a lark I cut them up into inch-long pieces and pushed them > into the soil horizontally.... I've just noticed (in the middle of > our winter) that several of them have sent up plantlets. > > Is this noteworthy? (I've heard of this being attempted with VFT > flower scapes, but have never heard of it for Drosera) Has anyone > else attempted this, seen results? Anyone want the resulting > offspring? (just kidding) > > Jay Lechtman (L235@aol.com) > So now even if we crush and mangle our D.capensis, they'll just keep on growing? Sounds like they'll reproduce no matter what. That's what you get, Jay, for happily hacking off the flower stalks ;-)! Chris Teichreb Department of Biology University of Regina Regina, Saskatchewan, CANADA teichrch@Meena.CC.URegina.CA ################### From: Mark van Kleunen Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:06:05 +0100 Subject: Pinguicula primuliflora Hi all, Last week I bought a Pinguicula primuliflora in a local greenhouse. I have grown this species a couple of times before, but after half a year they started to rot. What is the best growing medium, watering regime, light condition etc. ? At the moment the plant is placed in my room, and receives full sunlight for a quarter of the day. The pot is placed in a tray with 1 cm of rainwater. Mark ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 11:29:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Pinguicula primuliflora > Hi all, Last week I bought a Pinguicula primuliflora in a local > greenhouse. I have grown this species a couple of times before, > but after half a year they started to rot. What is the best > growing medium, watering regime, light > condition etc. ? At the moment the plant is placed in my room, > and receives > full sunlight for a quarter of the day. The pot is placed in a > tray with 1 cm of rainwater. Mark I have good luck with this one. A lot of mine are indoors under lights, typically about 6" to 10" away from double florescents. Medium is almost always live sphagnum sitting in shallow water. I have also had success with peat sand mixtures watered weekly or so, but the best and biggest plants are in sphagnum. IMHO they are more water-lovers than any of the other US pings. I have seen these in the wild almost continually submerged. FWIW I have one that is perched on the edge of the watering hole in a tray planting. Everytime I water, I drench it and it remains submerged for a day till the water begins to evaporate. It's still going strong. Tom in Fl. ################### From: "John H. Phillips III" Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 09:41:54 +0800 Subject: Re: Pinguicula primuliflora At 08:13 AM 1/24/97 -0800, you wrote: >Hi all, >Last week I bought a Pinguicula primuliflora in a local greenhouse. I have >grown this species a couple of times before, but after half a year they >started to rot. What is the best growing medium, watering regime, light >condition etc. ? At the moment the plant is placed in my room, and receives >full sunlight for a quarter of the day. The pot is placed in a tray with 1 >cm of rainwater. >Mark > Mark, I grow mine outside in a covered fish tank, in sphagnum, in a four inch pot, lots of bright light, but no direct sun, and about an inch of water year round. So far they bloom and reproduce like crazy, so much in fact that nearly the entire pot is hidden by leaves. Hope this helps, John H. Phillips III e-mail:phillips@library.ucsf.edu Interlibrary Loan Rm 202 Health Sciences Library University of California 530 Parnassus Ave San Francisco, CA 94143-0840 PH: (415) 476-8383 FAX: (415) 476-7940 ################### From: Mike Salmon <100114.2461@CompuServe.COM> Date: 24 Jan 97 15:30:54 EST Subject: Re: Seeds from Lowrie Christian Breckpot Wrote: *** Indeed, Lowrie/s seed list is very impressive. My experience is *** that the number of his seeds that germinate is far less impressive ! For three consecutive years, I ordered a number of seeds. The results were very poor. I am not talking about tricky things like Australian cp seeds which are known to be slow in germinating. Even the easy ones, like Sarracenia, did not came up. Seeds from other sources, treated identically, germinated like nothing. I guess some of his seeds are not stored properly or/and are simply too old. Why does he not indicate the date of collection like some other companies do ? If I were alone, I would not have posted this message, but the fact is that I have heard more complaints about the quality of his seeds. Right or just bad luck ? I would like to hear the opinion of other subscribers. *** My experience with Sarracenia seeds has been very similar. Less than 10% of Sarracenia seed packs from Lowrie yeilded me any seedlings at all. Where there was germination very few seeds in the pack germinated, except in one case where I got what I consider to be a normal germination rate. I feel I largely wasted my money. This is a shame because Alan does a lot of good work for the CP comunity. I have done some experiments and believe that Sarracenia seed is best sown fresh and then stratified. According to my experiments Sarracenia seed that passes through a 0.5mm sieve does not germinate. Maybe the problem with Lowrie's seed is age, maybe it is storage or maybe it is the temperature changes in its various journeys arround the world. I suppose I was unwise buying seeds from Australia when I live in the U.K. I find that seed from the UKCPS seed bank germinates with virtually 100% success but in this case the journey the seed has made is much shorter and it has presumeably not been subjected to such temperature changes as seed in the cargo hold of a plane. Maybe the various seed bank organisers could share their successful storage techniques with all of us? Maybe there is a place for providing feedback to seedbank organisers as part of the"fee" for using the bank so that the CP comunity can build up information on the maximum length of time it is best to store seed and the best storage stratagy for each type? Please don't take my comments the wrong way I hope to share information so that past mistakes are not repeated in the future and I do not critacise anyone except myself for thinking that seed subjected to such journeys was likely to be high quality. Mike Salmon ################### From: "Phil Semanchuk" pj@glaxowellcome.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 97 20:56:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Sand blasting sand. > I read somewhere .. yet cannot recall where.. that > sandblasting sand would be good sand... It contains > silica.. yet it is not completely white. > I went out on a limb and puchased a bag of the > medium grade.. I thought maybe the courser grade > would mean better drainage so I decided on an > average. FWIW, the sand in the soil of the SE US coastal plain that I've examined is extremely fine. I think the attribute that makes sandblasting sand desirable to CPers is that it is finer than most of the other types of sand commonly available. I bought a bag of the suspect "Play Sand" and not only would it not play with me (joke), it was very coarse compared to the sandblasting sand that I bought. The grain of the sandblasting sand is much closer to that of the sand in the soil I've seen CPs grow in. Hope this helps, Phil ################### From: Andrew Marshall Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:11:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: Allan Lowries seed Hello folks, Just to say that I have had reasonably good luck with his Nepenthes seed and some of his tuberous Drosera seed. The D. may have taken two years to go but it did. I just wish I was better at growing them as they would still be alive today. While I have never ordered Sarracenia or temperate Drosera seed from him, I am certain that at least some of it is fresh, as with the vft seed. I routinely send to him large quantities of the freshest seed of all sorts of S., D., and vft. I take great pains to clean out the chaff, and package it so that it ships well with hopefully no damage. I have not had any complaints from him on recieving the seed so I assume that my methods are successful. I can not account for your bad luck with these, but perhaps it is something you are doing. Don't get me wrong, I am not offended by the postings I am reading, but am a bit mystified that if I send large quantities of good, fresh seed. Seed that I test incidentally for viability, why you should have complaints about these species. I can guess that I am probably not the only one sending him seed but still, there should be some success stories. Whats the deal? BTW. I have recently sent him a large shipment so if you want fresh S., D., and vft seed, now is the time to get it I would think. Also, this is not menat to incite a flame war or any thing. I to have not always had good luck with his seed, but it has been the byblis and utricularia seed that has given me fits, and I figure it is because I do not know exactly what the seed wants, not that the seed is bad. I could be wrong but I prefer to err on the side of my own inexperience (even though I have been growing for at least 10 or more years) rather then blame Allan. My luck with seedbank seed has also been about the same as with Allans seed just for comparison. One thing we could all do is to insure that we only send the freshest seed, cleaned and packed in something more then paper envelopes. A bit of styrofoam, bubble wrap, or perhaps a flim container if a small box goes a long way to protecting the seed. I read a few years ago that some one had microscopically examined orchid seed that had been sent through the mail in the standard envelope fashion. They reported apalling dammage from the rollers that the envelopes get forced through. Most of the seed was crushed. Now many of you may not have seen the tiny dust like particles that are orchid seed but figure this, if they can be destrioyed, what chance does the much larger seed that we get have? It doesn't need to be crushed to powder, just cracked to lose its viability. If we all sent in the best seed, and I am sure that we do, packaged properly, then we can eliminate every one but the seller/seed bank, whose responsability it is to store it properly. This is also vital and is often the cause of low viability. I do not know how Allan or the seed banks store the seed. Tom, perhaps you could send us a message with your methods. We might learn something. After all, often we have to store the seed ourselves for a few weeks until we get enough to ship all at once. Might we be doing it badly? Anyway, enough! I will step down from the soap box and see what you all have to say. This is not menat to be accusitory, just thought provoking. Save the flames for another party please. Good growing, stay warm Andrew ps. actually you are welcome to send all the flames you want. It is supposed to snow here again and I could use the warming up. It would save on the heating bill. ;-) ################### From: Jeff Stein Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 18:28:20 -0500 Subject: Fungicides, I have a slight fungal problem and was wondering if anyone could suggest a fungicide and concentration to use. I work in a Plant Pathology lab and have access to more fungicides than I know what to do with but don't want to experiment on my plants when others have been successful already. Anything would be appretiated. Here's a short list of what I have available: Benomyl PCNB Bravo (and other chlorothalonil products) Tattoo various heavy metal compounds and a whole bunch of other not-so-common chemicals. -- Jeff Stein 35 Plant Biology Building MSU Late Blight of Potatoes Lab East Lansing, MI. 48824 USA (517)355-4754 ------------------------------ mailto:lothar@pilot.msu.edu http://lateblight.bpp.msu.edu/lothar ################### From: Philip Thomas Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 17:09:40 -1000 (HST) Subject: Pinguicula primuliflora My recent experiences with P. prim seem to indicate that they prefer FRESH media; upon planting some that I received bare-root into new peat/vermiculite (and l.f. sphag), they all really took off. Now, 6 mos later, they don't seem to be quite as vigorous (though it might be the season & changes in light, too). If they don't perk up by spring, I'm going to just transplant them all again & see what happens. (They are not unhealthy--they're flowering & producing leaf-keikis--it's just a "gestalt" thing...) -pt ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Philip A. Thomas - Research Associate - Hawaiian Ecosystems at Risk University of Hawaii/Botany Dept./CPSU/RCUH http://www2.hawaii.edu/~halesci/HEAR voice: (808) 572-9306 ext. 3233 fax: (808) 572-1304 P.O. Box 1272 - Puunene, Maui, Hawaii 96784 USA thomasp@maui.com http://www.maui.com/~thomasp/PhilipAnthonyThomas # Opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent ## ## the views of USGS/BRD, RCUH, CPSU, UH, or anyone besides just me!# ################### From: dave evans Date: Fri, 24 Jan 97 22:33 EST Subject: Re: Pinguicula primuliflora > From: Philip Thomas > > My recent experiences with P. prim seem to indicate that they prefer > FRESH media; upon planting some that I received bare-root into new > peat/vermiculite (and l.f. sphag), they all really took off. Now, 6 mos > later, they don't seem to be quite as vigorous (though it might be the > season & changes in light, too). If they don't perk up by spring, I'm > going to just transplant them all again & see what happens. (They are > not unhealthy--they're flowering & producing leaf-keikis--it's just a > "gestalt" thing...) Hmm... I've noticed many Pings do this. Grow for awhile, then slack off. It seems they simply need good seasons to keep them growing strong. I had my P.prim outside in the same pot with the Darlingtonia (likes it wet) until after the whole thing froze a couple times. I noticed the leaves on the Ping were wilted where they stood above the Sphagnum and could easily dry. This and the fact it would probably not survive past a couple more light freezes, led me to bring them inside where they have quickly started growing again. During the later fall, they simply stopped growing and that was enough dormancy for them and now underlights they've returned to full vigor. Now, I await a flower. Perhaps flowering can slow them a bit? Also, vermiculite does get sapped of it's nutrients after awhile (like you said, "not fresh") and now there is much less prey for them as well. Dave E ################### From: Mark van Kleunen Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:55:30 +0100 Subject: Re:seed viability test Loyd wrote: > There are I believe chemicals available to check the viability of > seed which only stain live tissue, perhaps this is one way to > determine seed quality before planting. Any one out there familiar > with these chemicals? > One of these chemicals is tetrazolium (2,3,5 triphenyl-tetrazoliumchloride). I used it during my study to test whether plant tissue was dead or alive. I made a 0.5% solution of the tetrazolium in which the plant tissue was incubated for 24 hours at 30 degrees C. When the tissue was alive it was stained red. I don't know, however, where you can buy this chemical. I recently read an article in which the seed viability was tested by use of an tetrazolium assay. The reference they gave was "International Seed Testing Association 1985). Regards Mark van Kleunen ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 08:44:32 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Fungicides, Hi Jeff, > I have a slight fungal problem and was wondering if anyone could suggest > a fungicide and concentration to use. I work in a Plant Pathology lab > and have access to more fungicides than I know what to do with but don't > want to experiment on my plants when others have been successful > already. Anything would be appretiated. Here's a short list of what I > have available: > > Benomyl > PCNB > Bravo (and other chlorothalonil products) > Tattoo > various heavy metal compounds > and a whole bunch of other not-so-common chemicals. > > Jeff Stein > 35 Plant Biology Building > MSU Late Blight of Potatoes Lab > East Lansing, MI. 48824 USA > (517)355-4754 The one on your list used most frequently by CPers is Benomyl. It may be that the others would work just as well, but may not be available to the general public. Benomyl can be used at regular strength as it doesn't appear to have any adverse effects. You should already know that all of these are fairly toxic to the human body, so just use proper precautions when applying to your plants or storing. Regards, Chris Teichreb Department of Biology University of Regina Regina, Saskatchewan, CANADA teichrch@Meena.CC.URegina.CA ################### From: TEETH32@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 11:34:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Set-up terrarium I'm just about to set up my 55g terrarium. I need to know what you people think is the best way to keep the air slightly moving inside so condensation is kept to a minimum. I have heard of two approaches: 1) use egg creates on the bottom, invert a pot and place a airstone under it in the water. 2) use a small fan (ie. computer fan) on top or near the top of the lid of the tank. Your comments would be appreciated. Thanks!!!! Darren ################### From: Alastair Robinson <100611.1627@CompuServe.COM> Date: 25 Jan 97 13:06:38 EST Subject: Andy Harbottle/Toby/Andy Hurrell I have been away for two weeks so have been unable to read any mail up till now and hope to answer one or two queries if I am not too late... With regards to Cephalotus (Albany Pitcher Plant), Eco Verdi sell these as advertised in a newletter recently - for twelve pounds, I received two mature plants which are thriving much to my joy as this species is really sweet Alfred Nimmo, Eco-Verdi Carnivorous Plants, 10A Meadowview Road, Meadowhead, Sheffield, S8 7TP. Tel:(01742) 740324. Reductions for BCPS members. I have heard that Catopsis berteroniana will seed easily as will many bromeliads - whilst I know little about pollinating them, I know two means of germinating seed for Bromeliads depending on what type they are. Those attatched to a pappus (Feathery anythings that will let the seeds 'fly') can be sown, novelly, on densely bundled sprigs of conifer such as Juniper or Thuja, misted with a fine spray (causing adhesion and providing water) and hung up in a warm, moist, humid and relatively shady position. Terrestrial species can be germinated in a 1:2 sand:sphagnum mix kept moist and heated at about 25 deg. C or warmer. To Andy Hurrell, I forgot to note your e-mail address before deleting the CPdigest and so am replying here. I live in Kuala Lumpur, W.Malaysia, but would be happy to give any help that I can - Stan knows me from Kew the meeting at Kew - I was lucky enough to be able to visit G.Kinabalu, though not much else, in 1995 and can provide an account of it. If you are unable to get hold of me, you might be able to get a copy from Phil Wilson if he is feeling generous! Saya harap dia gambira malawat tempat indah, Alastair. ################### From: charles Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 15:42:30 -0800 Subject: air movement... this may or may not be of value, but as i am reading this i realize that one of the easiest ways to move air in a terrarium would be with the following. a cpu cooling fan, 12 volts, .08 amp, 1 watt to power this, you could use a battery eliminator or for the real daring, a couple of solar cells the fans sell for about 10 everywhere, are about 2 inches on a side. just a thought ################### From: thrower@lifesci.lscf.ucsb.edu (Doug Thrower) Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:47:25 +2100 Subject: Re:terrarium setup Darren: When I set up my terrarium last summer I decided to try the computer fan idea. It works great for me. It not only prevents condensation but I found it to be an effective way to minimize the heating effect of the fluorescents which would otherwise raise the temp inside the terrarium to excessive levels during warm summer days. On an unrelated note of interest to Nepenthes growers, I recently noted something odd about the N. bicalcarata X khasiana that I purchased from California Carnivores last summer. The plant is now producing pitchers large enough for the spur that projects inward from the peristome to be visible. Unlike its parent N. bicalcarata, which characteristically produces a pair of spurs, consistently only one spur per pitcher has has been produced by the hybrid. It is possible that the other spur will appear on pitchers as the plant becomes more mature (the plant is currently about 20 cm in dia. with 2.5 X 10 cm pitchers). Has anyone who grows N. bicalcarata or any of its hybrids observed this asymmetrical spur production? The spur that is produced is always on the right side of the pitcher as you face the front of the pitcher (the side that is opposite to the side to which the lid is attached). Doug >I'm just about to set up my 55g terrarium. I need to know what you >people think is the best way to keep the air slightly moving inside >so condensation >is kept to a minimum. I have heard of two approaches: > > >1) use egg creates on the bottom, invert a pot and place a airstone >under it >in the water. > > >2) use a small fan (ie. computer fan) on top or near the top of the >lid of the tank. > > >Your comments would be appreciated. Thanks!!!! Darren > > ################### From: Peter Cole Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 23:36:21 GMT Subject: Re: Allan Lowries seed > From: Andrew Marshall ... > One thing we could all do is to insure that we only send the > freshest seed, cleaned and packed in something more then paper > envelopes. A bit of styrofoam, bubble wrap, or perhaps a flim > container if a small box goes a long way to protecting the seed. I > read a few years ago that some one had microscopically examined > orchid seed that had been sent through the mail in the standard > envelope fashion. They reported apalling dammage from the rollers > that the envelopes get forced through. Most of This seems to be a particular problem in the US, but should certainly be considered anywhere - a piece of bubble wrap or a couple of thicknesses of kitchen roll wrapped around seeds will prevent this damage - and it doesn't add much/anything to the postage. > the seed was crushed. Now many of you may not have seen the tiny > dust like particles that are orchid seed but figure this, if they > can be destrioyed, what chance does the much larger seed that we > get have? It doesn't need to be crushed to powder, just cracked to > lose its viability. If we all sent in the best seed, and I am sure > that we do, packaged properly, then we can eliminate every one but > the seller/seed bank, whose responsability it is to store it > properly. This is also vital and is often the cause of low > viability. I do not know how Allan or the seed In fairness to Allen, much of the seed he stocks is gathered from wild plants, and this therefore has not been selectively bred for ease of cultivation/germination like many of the plants we fill our greenhouses with. Also with so much seed collected for him by other people around the world, he has no way of knowing for sure how well (or otherwise,) the seed has been treated before he gets it. From my own experience of Allen's seed (confined mostly to S.American and S.African Drosera and Roridula,) germination rates have been better than seems to be the average reported. Probably 2/3-3/4 of all packets sown over the last couple of years (several dozen,) have produced plants, varying from 2 or 3 plants to near 100% germination. But friends (unarguably competent growers,) trying his Sarracenia, Cephalotus, Utricularia etc. report very much worse results, and I guess there really isn't a lot of excuse for consistently poor germination from as well understood a genus as Sarracenia - it ought to be easy enough unless it's been severely mistreated. I discovered a couple of bags of Allen's Sarra seed in the fridge the other day - stratifying in ziplock bags of wet moss since March and I'd forgotten all about them since I moved to the new fridge. I'll sow them and see what happens - I'll report back to the list on any progress, or lack of, when anything (or nothing,) happens. The spp. in question are S.purp.purp 'Switzerland Giant', S.oreophila 'somewhere or other' and an alata or flava of some sort. I think 10 months stratifying should do it if anything will! > banks store the seed. Tom, perhaps you could send us a message with your > methods. We might learn something. After all, often we have to store the > seed ourselves for a few weeks until we get enough to ship all at once. Well, I store a considerable amount of seed, and here's how I do it. The seed is cleaned, enveloped and labelled, then packed into plastic food containers (tupperware-type lunchbox thingies,) with Silica gel (dessicant,) and put in the fridge at a constant 4'C. It's got to the point where I've now got my own 'seed fridge' - the missus was getting annoyed with seeds and assorted TC chemicals invading the salad drawer and lurking behind the milk :-) This combination of mimimal humidity and low temperatures ensures best retention of viability for a long time. In addition, I don't keep seed very long - if I haven't sold/traded it within 12 months, I sow it (what the hell - I've got to get my plant stock from somewhere!) This is probably overkill, as the storage conditions should ensure viability for several/many years for most spp., but there's usually fresh seed to be had from my plants or friends', so not many spp. disappear from my list for good. > Might we be doing it badly? Anyway, enough! I will step down from > the soap box and see what you all have to say. This is not menat > to be accusitory, just thought provoking. Save the flames for > another party please. Good growing, stay warm Andrew ps. actually > you are welcome to send all the flames you want. It is supposed to > snow here again and I could use the warming up. It would save on > the heating bill. ;-) Indeed, feel free to aim some warmth my way - the paraffin bills are killing me! :-) Happy growing, Peter snail:Peter Cole,17 Wimmerfield Cr. :: mailto:carnivor@flytrap.demon.co.uk Killay, SWANSEA SA27BU,WALES,UK :: http://www.flytrap.demon.co.uk/ vox:+44 1792 205214 :: Carnivorous plants & seeds for sale ################### From: Gary Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 17:30:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Horticultural sand... Hi Everyone... Someone a few digests ago lamented the fact that you can't buy washed, white horticultural sand in useful quantities--either by the truckload or in those precious little pouches nurseries sell for an arm and a leg. Just the other day, I purchased an 8 quart bag, marketed by Kellogg's Supply Co. in California, for a mere $2.99 (US smackers). It's just the right quantity for the home hobbyist and at only twice the price of the 1 quart bag, it's a bargain. It is, however, rather gritty. But once its mixed in with peat, it seems to blend rather well. One word of caution, if you don't own a car (like myself), think twice before toting 8 quarts of very dense sand ten blocks uphill. Gary ################### From: "Christoph A. Belanger" <105601.512@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 22:04:26 -0500 Subject: P. 'Species Nova No. 4' Jan, Juerg and other Pinuicula lovers, I just seached for a synonym for the plant that is pictured on page 111 in Slack's Insect-Eating Plants & How to grow them. He calls it P.'species nova No. 4' a "name" that Harald Weiner gave it. I was wondering if you could tell me what this plant's real name is. Christoph ################### From: j.dewitte@t-online.de (John De Witte) Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 12:11:48 +0000 Subject: seed viability You could control seed viability by using a 1% solution of TTC (2,3,5-triphenytetrazoliumchloride, CAS 298-96-4, Sigma T-8877). Put some seeds in a small quantity (+/- 2 ml) of this solution. After 24- 48 hours in the dark at 25 deg C. seeds that are viable will show a red coloration. This however is no indication that they will actually germinate. Hope this might help somewhere, John De Witte j.dewitte@t-online.de fax +49-7844-98997 ################### From: dmjoel@netvision.net.il (Daniel M. Joel) Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 15:22:48 +0300 Subject: Re: seed viability Loyd wrote: > There are I believe chemicals available to check the > viability of seed which only stain live tissue Mark added that >One of these chemicals is tetrazolium (2,3,5 triphenyl-tetrazoliumchloride). Well, we use Tetrazolium test rutinely for seed viability in my lab: dark seeds are cleared with sodium hypochloride (1% for 5-20 min), and incubated (after wash in water) in 1% solution of 2,3,5-triphenyltetazolium chloride for 1-2 days at 37 C or room temp. The seeds that developed red or pink color are considered viable (=tetrazolium positive), those that do not, are considered dead (=tetrazolium negative). The "International Seed Testing Association 1985 (you can find it in libraries esp. of agric. institutes) gives criteria to distinguish degrees of viability, based on the staining pattern, but in principle you would wish to have the embryo stained. > perhaps this is one way to determine seed quality before planting. -unfortunately tetrazolium staining in most cases is destructive, giving an indication of the percentage of viability in seed population. Other seeds will then germinate to about that degree provided that proper conditions are available. Danny from Israel ################### From: "Christoph A. Belanger" <105601.512@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 09:02:40 -0500 Subject: N. macfarlanei Alastair, Perry, and others who are interested, a few weeks ago I wrote about the troubles I had with my N. macfarlanei. Well, I went ahead and purchased some fruit flies and gave some to my sick and yellow looking plant. Remember it had never grown past it's two centimeter diameter. Anyway, I fed it about three weeks ago and the next leaf it produced is dark green like all my other plants, the growth rate seems also to have accelerated. No new pitchers have been produced yet but I anticipate them to get larger in the next few months. Just thought I would keep you up to date... Christoph ################### From: GeraldJr@aol.com Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 12:32:37 -0500 Subject: Subscribe subscribe ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 23:21:33 +0100 Subject: Re: CP identification On 21 Jan 97 at 15:11, Mellard, David wrote: > I did some impulse buying at Home Depot over the holidays and can't > figure out what cp I bought. Can you help? It came in one of > those hotel cp set-ups: brown base, clear, plastic dome, pure peat > media. Here's the description: > > 1. Rosette leaf formation growing close to the surface 2. Lime > green leaves, clear mucilage, no red anywhere 3. 2 inch diameter > plant 4. Leaves are much longer than they are wide: say, 3:1 or 4:1 > 5. I think it had a pink flower but could be wrong. > > My guess is some type of pinguicula but I can't find a picture of > it in any > of my cp books. The leave are much too narrow, at least for the > pings I saw > in the books. I've just come across Pinguicula primuliflora for the first time in a local garden centre. Try looking that one up if you can - it certainly has narrower leaves than some do. It seems to have the habit of generating plantlets near the tips of the leaves, where they touch the ground. -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) ################### From: Phil Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 18:28:36 GMT Subject: Re: P. 'Species Nova No. 4' In your message dated Saturday 25, January 1997 you wrote : > Jan, Juerg and other Pinuicula lovers, > > > I just seached for a synonym for the plant that is pictured on page > 111 in Slack's Insect-Eating Plants & How to grow them. He calls > it P.'species nova No. 4' a "name" that Harald Weiner gave it. I > was wondering if you could tell me what this plant's real name is. > > Christoph > Christoph, I think you will find the Pinguicula described by Slack as Species Nova No. 4 is P. rotundiflora. Regards, -- Phil Wilson (cp@pwilson.demon.co.uk) ################### From: Brian Estes Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 12:17:49 -0800 Subject: Fruit flys Has anyone experimented with hatching fruit flys in a terrarium in an attempt to provide a source of live food for Drosera? It seems that it would produce nice sized food for these small plants. ################### From: Heather Frederick Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 11:32:24 +1300 (NZDT) Subject: Re: Posting Seed >I read a few years ago that some one had microscopically examined orchid seed >that had been sent through the mail in the standard envelope fashion. They >reported apalling dammage from the rollers that the envelopes get forced >through. Most of the seed was crushed. I can testify to that. Last year I sent some Roridula seed to a friend through the mail and it arrived looking like crushed pepper. Now when I send seed, I use a piece of thick card that just fits in the envelope with holes cut for the seed packets and the packets are taped firmly in place. It works for me. Heather in Auckland, New Zealand ################### From: "davin@biopcs.gen.nz" Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:29:21 +1300 (NZDT) Subject: Looking for Genliseas Okay - like the title says I'm looking around to others that are growing them already who may be interested in trading. I'm mainly a Heli and Nep grower am hopefully will have something of interest. Presently I'm growing violacaea and hispidula but would like to acquire others and more just get in contact with growers of these beautiful plants. Always open to just chatting etc. Catch Ye Later Davin George ################### From: egilding@lava.net Date: Sun, 26 Jan 97 17:56 WET Subject: Photographing Plants I know this may seem out of place here but..... I have a few questions regarding photographing plants in habitat (_Nepenthes_ etc). 1. What is the best film for doing such work, I have used Fuji SuperG Plus 200 in the past but it was too slow for some of the shade/forest floor shots(well ok, just about all). When I got the pictures back I found most of the green deep emerald green that I would have liked to have captured was bluish and the bright reds became flourescent gaudy colors. I am looking at getting Kodak 400 Gold this time around to take better low light pictures and hopefully capture the colors correctly. Any input/experience? 2. When take shots of the canopy it is difficult to capture very much detail due to the sky backlighting and an overall lack of contrast(looks like green mess) Will a ASA 400 film reduce this? Will flash help? 3. Any recommendations in terms of filters to get better habitat photos? Thank you, Edward Gilding egilding@lava.net ################### From: swyld@gil.com.au Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 14:48:06 Subject: newbe Hi, my name is Steve and i live in Brisbane, Australia. i am 45 years old have a wife and 2 kids. i have been interested in cp`s for years now but only on an off on basis as i am easily sidetracked into other hobbies such as Sailing,Scuba Diving, Living Reef Aquaria, Science Fiction and Gardening. i plan to build a small bog in an old concrete trough in the garden and will probably use a Peat/ sphagnum/ sand mix for soil and Rainwater for irrigation. Anyone near my area or elsewhere that can offer advice would be greatly appreciated. i also wish to grow some Nephenthe hanging baskets. At the moment i have some Drosera`s, VFT`s and Sarracenia`s (north and south) in a pot on a sundeck to see if they will take outdoor conditions in my climate. Looking forward to your input, Steve. See Ya. ################### From: "Doug and Meryl Fraser" Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 15:54:06 +0000 Subject: N x mizuho Hello everyone, Thankyou to all those people who replied to my last queries your help has been appreciated. I would like to know what the correct parentage is for N x mizuho. I have found references in different publications that list it as (rafflesiana x ((maxima x northiana) x (rafflesiana x veitchii)) or rafflesiana x dyeriana or rafflesiana x dicksoniana. Which is the more common N. fallax or N. stenophylla? All replies appreciated. Meryl ################### From: Laurent Ide Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 08:51:59 GMT Subject: Growing tips, asking for... I'm a lucky guy because I just received seeds from a CP wizard (hi Eric). These are unusual species for me. Any advice concerning the growing of Drosophyllum and Roridula will be appreciated. Any comments about the Slack's double-pot technique for Drosophyllum too. Thanks Laurent ################### From: Russell Elliott Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:17:14 -0800 Subject: Re: Posting Seed Heather Frederick wrote: > > Postage paid by: [Image] > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > >I read a few years ago that some one had microscopically examined > >orchid > seed >that had been sent through the mail in the standard envelope fashion. > They >reported apalling dammage from the rollers that the envelopes > get forced >through. Most of the seed was crushed. > > I can testify to that. Last year I sent some Roridula seed to a > friend through the mail and it arrived looking like crushed pepper. > Now when I send seed, I use a piece of thick card that just fits in > the envelope with holes cut for the seed packets and the packets > are taped firmly in place. It works for me. > > Heather in Auckland, New ZealandAll, When we package seed to send from the ACPS seed bank we use those "jiffy" pack mailers. I don't know what they may also be called elsewhere, but they have a layer of bubble plastic inside. I recall a few years ago it was suggested that we switch from paper envelopes to these. From memory we received a number of letters saying how much germination rates increased. Bye For Now, Russell Elliott -- *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ! Russell Elliott ! ! Seed Bank Director, ! ! Australian Carnivorous Plant Society ! ! mailto:relliott@geocities.com ! ! mailto:elliott@nexus.edu.au ! *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ################### From: TANWK Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 17:29 +0800 Subject: Stamps featuring CPs? Dear Fellow CP'ers, The mention of N. macfarlanei reminded me of the Malaysian stamps of N. macfarlanei, N. sangunea, N.lowii and N. rajah that I finally managed to buy from a local stamp dealer last month. I asked him whether he could search through his stamp collection to see whether there were stamps from other countries featuring carnivorous plants (Venus flytrap, Sarracenia, etc). He said the task would be quite laborious as he had a huge number of stamps. Would you happen to know of particular countries that had featured CPs? This information would make the search easier as the stamp dealer has his stamps categorised country-by-country. Incidentally, I also have the Malaysian $20/- note that includes a sketch of N. rafflesiana on the back of the note. This is much easier to obtain than the stamps as it is still in use. Regards, Tan Wee Kiat from Singapore. >From: "Christoph A. Belanger" <105601.512@compuserve.com> >Subject: N. macfarlanei > Alastair, Perry, and others who are interested, > a few weeks ago I wrote about the troubles I had with my N. macfarlanei. ################### From: BMEvans Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 11:30:37 PST Subject: Sandblasting sand There could be problems using some sandblasting sands, since they sometimes contain a large proportion of crushed slag from industrial boilers -- the grain shape is angular and so ideal for abrasion. The problem is that these slags usually contain heavy metals and sulphur compounds, which will leach out in the acidic CP soil. There was an incident last year in south west England in which a bridge was blasted, and the sand/slag seriously damaged a botanical nature reserve below. So if possible its best to check that it is pure sand that you are buying. Regards to all, Brian ################### From: Perry Malouf Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 07:42:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Photographing Plants Edward Guilding asked: > I have a few questions regarding photographing plants in habitat > (_Nepenthes_ etc). > 1. What is the best film for doing such work, I have used Fuji > SuperG Plus 200 in the past...I am looking at getting Kodak 400 > Gold this time around to take better low light pictures and > hopefully capture the colors correctly. Any input/experience? I used Kodak 400 Gold for all photographs, when I went to Kinabalu Park. A flash was still necessary when taking closeup shots under the forest canopy, despite the fact that it was broad daylight. (I used a zoom lens to really get some good shots of Nepenthes pitchers.) Kodak 400 Gold rendered the colors true. However, if I get a chance to do this sort of thing again, I would use _color slide_ film. This is because: 1) you can show them to an audience that way, and 2) it's easier to make prints from slides rather than the vice versa. In fact, there is a special process for making impeccable posters from slides; you can't use the process to make posters from negatives. But, maybe for me it's better that way--I would have drained my bank account in making so many posters :-) Regards, Perry Malouf ################### From: BREWER__CHARLES@ecomail.damneck.navy.mil Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:23:46 -0500 Subject: re: sand blasting sand In regards to sand blasting sand, I have been using it for years with excellent results. I use 50% course silica sand to 50% peat. I like the courser stuff because it allows the water to drain freely through the soil and the plants seem to do well in it. I go directly to a sand blasting company and ask for damaged bags. I can usually get 3 to 5-100 lb. bags for about two dollars a bag. Not a bad deal. A 100 lb bag of sand will usually last me for about 2 months. Longer if I am not re potting and topping off the pots. I have tried the medium grade down to the fine grade sand, but I seem to always go back to the course grade. The courser stuff seems to just work a lot better and once you mixed the course sand with peat, You really don't notice it al all. One 100 pound bag of course silica sand to a 4 cu foot of peat is what I usually mix up. After I have added my water and mixed both completely, I allow the mix to sit for about two weeks in the greenhouse before I start to use it. This allows the mixture to season somewhat, and ensures that the peat has absorbed the proper amount of water...Hope this helps Charles Brewer Virginia Beach, Va.(USA) ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:43:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Fungicides, > Hi Jeff, > > > I have a slight fungal problem and was wondering if anyone could > > suggest a fungicide and concentration to use. I work in a Plant > > Pathology lab and have access to more fungicides than I know what > > to do with but don't want to experiment on my plants when others > > have been successful already. Anything would be appretiated. > > Here's a short list of what I have available: > > > > Benomyl > > > > Jeff Stein > The one on your list used most frequently by CPers > is Benomyl. It may be that the others would work just as well, > but may not be available to the general public. Benomyl > can be used at regular strength as it doesn't appear to have > any adverse effects. You should already know that all of > these are fairly toxic to the human body, so just use > proper precautions when applying to your plants or storing. And in the continuing Benomyl saga, there was an article just this weekend about families here in Florida seeking damages for Benomyl poisoning associated with a nearby nursery. In a related article authorities are now trying to determine if, besides being contaminated with an unapproved herbicide, Benomyl was also radioactive. - As if the X-files ain't enough! Tom in Fl myl ################### From: -Tom- Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 14:33:00 GMT Subject: Re: Photographing Plants >1. What is the best film for doing such work, I have used Fuji >SuperG Plus 200 in the past but it was too slow for some of the >shade/forest floor shots(well ok, just about all). When I got the >pictures back I found most of the green deep emerald green that I >would have liked to have captured was >bluish and the bright reds became flourescent gaudy colors. I am >looking at getting Kodak 400 Gold this time around to take better >low light pictures and hopefully capture the colors correctly. Any >input/experience? try fugi 800 and use fill flash with a diffuser. That should help with all problems. Andreas - comments? Take care & keep on growing, -Tom- ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Mon, 27 Jan 97 09:36:00 EST Subject: RE: newbe Hi Steve and welcome back to THEE hobby. Sounds like you're on the right track with your bog. You didn't mention a couple of things about your bog that might make life easier. 1. Unless you always have plenty of rainfall or a constant water source for the bog, use a plastic liner. The kind I use is an all purpose plastic roll, the higher the mil (thickness), the better. 2. Dig that hole as deep as your arms can manage. I'd say a minimum of 18 inches but 24 is better and Dave Evans (Hi Dave) will tell you 36 inches (1 meter). The added depth will give the bog more water and allow the surface of the bog to remain wet or damp between rains. 3. Don't make the bog wider than one arm's length. I have to straddle the corner of my 1st bog to try to reach the center. It hurts! good luck David ---------- Steve said > i plan to build a small bog in an old concrete trough in the garden and will >probably use a Peat/ sphagnum/ sand mix for soil and Rainwater for irrigation. > offer advice would be greatly appreciated. ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 09:30:33 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Photographing Plants Hi Edward, > I know this may seem out of place here but..... > > I have a few questions regarding photographing plants in habitat > (_Nepenthes_ etc). > > 1. What is the best film for doing such work, I have used Fuji > SuperG Plus 200 in the past but it was too slow for some of the > shade/forest floor shots(well ok, just about all). When I got the > pictures back I found most of the green deep emerald green that I > would have liked to have captured was > bluish and the bright reds became flourescent gaudy colors. I am > looking at > getting Kodak 400 Gold this time around to take better low light > pictures and hopefully capture the colors correctly. Any > input/experience? I use Fuji 400 for all photos, whether inside or outside. It saves on having to use a flash. As well, a flash will sometimes light up only certain areas making parts of the photo looked washed out. > > 2. When take shots of the canopy it is difficult to capture very much detail > due to the sky backlighting and an overall lack of contrast(looks like green > mess) Will a ASA 400 film reduce this? Will flash help? > > 3. Any recommendations in terms of filters to get better habitat photos? Try a UV-filter. It'll save your lens in the long-run. A diffuser will produce a nice, soft look to the photo, but for sharp, crisp photos, I'd say use as few lens and filters as possible. Less to go wrong! > > Thank you, > Edward Gilding > egilding@lava.net > > Chris Teichreb Department of Biology University of Regina Regina, Saskatchewan, CANADA teichrch@Meena.CC.URegina.CA ################### From: KenC@casadyg.com Date: Mon, 27 Jan 97 12:14:08 PST Subject: RE: Fungicides Jeff Stein wrote: Of the ones you mentioned, Benomyl is probably the best for use on CP. Many of the long-time growers swear by its ability to handle the most difficult fungus and still not harm the majority of the plants. Hope this helps. Ken Cusson, Secretary/Treasurer ICPS ################### From: Glenn Rankin Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 12:24:37 PST Subject: D. pauciflora Hi everyone, Last summer I had a D. pauciflora plant that died back to the roots. I inquired here on the list if that was normal. The answer that came back: yes, in fact it's required for a healthy plant. Well, I now can say that at least it doesn't seem to hurt. What was one plant last spring, is now seven! The two larger ones are even sending up flowers! :-) Glenn Rankin rankin@hpl.hp.com ################### From: oec@ocsystems.com (Oliver E. Cole) Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 15:49:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: REMOVE > > CP Digest 973 > ################### From: "John H. Phillips III" Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 13:06:23 +0800 Subject: Re: D. pauciflora At 12:28 PM 1/27/97 -0800, you wrote: >Hi everyone, > > >Last summer I had a D. pauciflora plant that died back to the roots. >I inquired here on the list if that was normal. The answer that >came back: yes, in fact it's required for a healthy plant. > > >Well, I now can say that at least it doesn't seem to hurt. What was >one plant last spring, is now seven! The two larger ones are even >sending up flowers! :-) > > >Glenn Rankin rankin@hpl.hp.com > > > > > > > > Glenn, How dry did you keep the soil medium during dormancy? Thanks, John H. Phillips III e-mail:phillips@library.ucsf.edu Interlibrary Loan Rm 202 Health Sciences Library University of California 530 Parnassus Ave San Francisco, CA 94143-0840 PH: (415) 476-8383 FAX: (415) 476-7940 ################### From: Glenn Rankin Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 14:03:06 PST Subject: Re: D. pauciflora I grow it in 3-5mm porous mudstone gravel with about 20% shredded sphagnum in a 6 inch terra cotta pot. That is probably bigger than it needs to be for the reach of the roots, but it helps buffer the moisture and temperature. The medium stays moist, but drains freely and allows lots of air to get to the roots. I stand the pot in 2-4 cm of water. When the weather got hot this last summer, the part of the plant above the ground died and dried up. At this point I did some digging to see if there might still be some fleshy roots. When I discovered that there were, I arranged them with one end near the surface and the other going deep into the medium. Until the greenery sprouted, I think I stood the pot in 1 cm or so of water. The top of the medium dries out when it is sunny, but the interior stays moist. I kept the plant outside this winter (I live in Menlo Park), bringing it under cover at night when it looks like there's going to be frost. Glenn Rankin rankin@hpl.hp.com > > > At 12:28 PM 1/27/97 -0800, you wrote: > >Hi everyone, > > > > > >Last summer I had a D. pauciflora plant that died back to the > >roots. I inquired here on the list if that was normal. The > >answer that came back: yes, in fact it's required for a healthy > >plant. > > > > > >Well, I now can say that at least it doesn't seem to hurt. What > >was one plant last spring, is now seven! The two larger ones are > >even sending up flowers! :-) > > > > > >Glenn Rankin rankin@hpl.hp.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Glenn, How dry did you keep the soil medium during dormancy? > Thanks, John H. Phillips III e-mail:phillips@library.ucsf.edu ################### From: Gilles Lardy Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 00:47:36 +0100 (MET) Subject: Taylor's monograph. Hi, being more and more interested in the Utricularia genus, I was wondering if anyone in the list would know from whom I could get a copy of Taymor's monograph on utrics ? BTW, has anybody heard of Eric Green recently, he has suddenly stopped to answer my e-mails two weeks ago ? BTW-bis, I'm still looking for the people living in HONGKONG who answerde me last year, since a nasty virus deleted all my e-mail files. Thank you to all who will answer ! ################### From: Brian Estes Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 17:12:45 -0800 Subject: Terrarium sized CP's I would like any suggestions as to which Sarracenia, Nepenthes, and Heliamphora species would be good choices for terrariums that have 10" growing space above the spagnum level. Most of the ones I have been looking at show heights much higher than this, but I am wondering if these max heights are outside limits and that most will grow considerably shorter. I am interested in buying seed of those that will be low growing. ################### From: dave evans Date: Mon, 27 Jan 97 20:46 EST Subject: Re: Growing tips, asking for... > From: Laurent Ide > > These are unusual species for me. > Drosophyllum. This one should be started in same pot you plan to leave it in since they don't like transplants at all. I don't know anything about double pots for them. I am simply using a 90 % sand mix which drains very quickly, yet stays slightly damp underneath since I included 10% peat (the top inch is 100% sand). It is getting very bright light (more than any other CP) and I water them (two in one pot) every other day by flooding the surface of the sand with about 1/2 inch of water. Sometimes, if the soil dries too quickly, I'll water again the next day. If I'm leaving for a couple days, I'll just add extra water as there is a wad of Sphagnum moss at the bottom of the pot to hold in the sand and hold extra moisture for a couple of days. A long as this plant is getting very strong light, warm temps and dry air on it's stem; it seems like it can handle fairly moist (but loose and airy) soil, for a few days anyway. *treat it more like a Cactus than a Sundew* Good luck, Dave Evans ################### From: dave evans Date: Mon, 27 Jan 97 21:18 EST Subject: Re: RE: newbe > 1. Unless you always have plenty of rainfall or a constant water source for > the bog, use a plastic liner. The kind I use is an all purpose plastic > roll, the higher the mil (thickness), the better. Hi list, Try to locate some that will tell you right on the package that it resists sun damage. Most plastic sheets are just for use as a drop cloths for when you're painting or whatever and will not be protected. > 2. Dig that hole as deep as your arms can manage. I'd say a > minimum of 18 inches but 24 is better and Dave Evans (Hi Dave) will > tell you 36 inches (1 > meter). The added depth will give the bog more water and allow the > surface of the bog to remain wet or damp between rains. Yes, deeper is probably better, but 36 inches here may have been a bit much. ;) 30 inches would have worked just as well, I think... I'm in northern New Jersey and if you're futher north, deeper will will help by providing a heat sink for southern plants in your even colder and longer winters. I've found that S.psittacina flowers very well in the deeper bog and not at all in the shallow one... I wonder if they are getting colder in the shallow bog, and going past their flower bud hardiness while been protected in the deeper bog? > 3. Don't make the bog wider than one arm's length. I have to straddle > the corner of my 1st bog to try to reach the center. It hurts! Ha! I made my first bog too wide. After nearly diving head first in to it because I was straining to reach in, I decided to avoid becoming one of those well preserved mummies they keep finding in bogs and took a couple feet off the width of it. *NOT* easy! Get it right the first time around to avoid our (David's and my) mistake. It can be twice as wide as your arms reach, if you can approach from both sides. If it is going to sit against a fence or building, then keep under three feet wide. Dave Evans ################### From: Fernando Rivadavia Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:02:43 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Allen Lowrie's seeds To all, As a contributor to Allen's gigantic seed list, I thought I ought to make a short comment. As to quality of the seed, I don't know if he keeps them refrigerated, but I know that he asks people to mail the seeds to him in bubble-plastic to avoid damage. All the seeds I ever received from him were similarly wrapped in bubble-plastic for protection. In regards to the age of the seeds, I see some on his list which I remember having collected as long ago as December 92/January 93. But I have no idea how long these Drosera/ Genlisea/ Utric seeds are viable anyways. Oh well, good luc to all in germinating my Brazilian species and please keep me posted on which species are now growing well in cultivation! I like to know how my "babies" are doing! Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia Tokyo, Japan ################### From: Fernando Rivadavia Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:11:42 +0900 (JST) Subject: Visiting Brazil! To all, I will be visiting Brazil in Feb./March and will spend most of my time travelling around, collecting CPs like in the good ol' days. I can't wait!! Almost every night since I've come to Japan I dream that I'm hiking up some distant mountains in Brazil and finding new CPs. I'm planning to go to some realy cool places, some old some new. I'll be leaving on Feb.6th and will stay until the 10th in L.A. visiting CP friends Ed Read, Ivan Snyder, Gordon Snelling, Leo Song, and any others who are around and free at that time. I will then saty until the 15th in Chicago visiting my brother and wife, but where I also intend to see some interesting herbaria at the Chicago Field Museum. Any CPers out there in the Chicago area? I'll be quite busy there, but I might just have time....Anyways, on the 16th I arrive in Brazil, where I'll stay until the end of March. I just hope it stops raining, as the whole SE corner of the country has been getting heavy rains! Hope to have LOTS to tell when I get back! Bets Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia Tokyo, Japan ################### From: Fernando Rivadavia Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 12:52:15 +0900 (JST) Subject: Japanese CPS meeting To all, On Sunday I went to the new year's meeting of the Japanese CPS, the second I've participated in since I moved to Japan. Unfortunately I still don't understand 95% of what is said, but had a great time meeting CPers and talking to a few I already knew. Once again there were fantastic plants on display, the most striking of which were the Pings. Apparently most of these were cultivated by Masato Hatori, considered by the locals as a Ping. "genius". And I agree!! One species in flower particularly caught my attention: P.reticulata. Beautiful flowers!!!!! Another species which caught my attention was a D.spatulata-like possible new species. I don't remember the name of the collector, but he told me he had collected the plants in November in Qld. (somewhere on the coast, can't remember the name of the bay), Australia. These had short scapes and large pink flowers (according to him). The most surprising though was that the scapes were completely covered with short white hairs all the way to the top. Afterwards, I remembered hearing about a D.spatulata "hairy sepals" from Qld. which was on some CP list I saw recently. Apparetly this already-complicated species becomes even more complicated in Qld.! I arrived early for the meeting and left late, due to the numerous CP herbaria and photos Shibata-san had brought back from her latest trip to Venezuela and which I wanted to inspect closely. The Drosera were 5: D.roraimae, D.felix, D.arenicola var.arenicola, D.intermedia, and D.kaieteurensis (Hey Jan, I'm finally getting the hang of identifying these complicated Venezuelan species!). Genlisea were all G.roraimensis, I think. Heliamphora were all H.minor and maybe H.minor X heterodoxa. There were some weird variations in pitcher length and inner hair distribution. Now the Utric collections were absolutely FAN-TAS-TIC!! To my total surprise, she was able to find 2 of the smallest (and rarest) Utrics there are: U.biovularioides and U.naviculata!! I've found the former in Brazil, but not the latter, which according to Taylor is also only known from 2 collections. Another interesting species she collected was U.viscosa, which I also had never seen. Other species on my "have never seen list" were U.sandwithii, U.longeciliata, U.myriocista, and a possible new species similar to U.lloydii. Other species found by her (I hope I remember these correctly) were U.breviscapa, U.foliosa (with curiously swollen stems which looked like tubers), U.cucullata, U.pubescens, U.amethystina (several forms), U.subulata/or pusilla, U.adpressa, U.erectiflora, U.juncea (or was it U.cornuta?), U.quelchii (pink and red fl.), U.campbelliana, U.hispida, U.nana, and 'boring old' U.humboldtii. Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia Tokyo, Japan P.S. The D.uniflora arrived in more or less good conditions and several had flower scapes!!! Mature seeds were extracted from a few and these have been given to Isao-san to attempt his hand at TC with this species. So hopefully this one will soon be established among TC CPers at least. ################### From: "Craig S. Gardner" Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 22:10:02 -0800 Subject: E-mail Down and fungicides Just wanted to let those people who have sent me e-mail I'm not ignoring anyone I just haven\222t been getting my e-mail. My Internet provider said nothing was wrong but the yesterday I suddenly got 32 messages!! It will take me a while to get back to everyone. Anyone I promised something to please drop me a reminder I have been very busy and need to catch up with the important stuff (CP;-) As for fungicides I have had much better results using "Captan" than with Benomyl. I have used Captan on just about every CP I own at one time or another with no ill effects. -- Happy Growing Craig S. Gardner 173 Perry St. Ukiah Ca. 95482 ################### From: dmjoel@netvision.net.il (Daniel M. Joel) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 10:50:41 +0300 Subject: Re: CP stamps Tan Wee Kiat There is a Nepenthes pervillei stamp from Seychelles. Danny from Israel ################### From: j.dewitte@t-online.de (John De Witte) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 17:58:50 +0000 Subject: various Hi all, Couple of answers: 1.- Film In the rainforrest I use something like 100 to 200 ASA (fujichrome or velvia) and ALWAYS use a flash (most of the time ringflash when I can get close to the plants, normal flash for general shots). The place is just to dark period. Pictures have come out nice always and I hope to have them on a page next week. Should be close to 60 species in natural surroundings. 2.- From what i have seen, I would say n. fallax is wider distributed. I stilltry to find the "original" steno, altough I think the one from Gunung Murud comes close. The plants at Gunung Api are maybe the same, but most of the ones growing at medium altitude (around 1000 meter) Jan Schlaurer would insist on calling n. fallax. I bow to a higher authority Keep them growing and remember Loud pipes (as in Harley) save lives!!!!!!!!!!! John De Witte j.dewitte@t-online.de fax +49-7844-98997 ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 19:10:55 Subject: new species & al. Dear fellow cpers, 1. A species of _Pinguicula_ was described as new: _P. gigantea_ Luhrs, Phytologia 79:389 (1995, publ. 1996) This is probably the plant that was called "Ayautla" for a long time. Now Luhrs seems to have found a sufficient difference from _P. agnata_. Good luck with these criteria! 2. John wrote: > The plants at Gunung Api are > maybe the same, but most of the ones growing at medium altitude > (around 1000 meter) Jan Schlauer would insist on calling n. fallax. > I bow to a higher authority How would you call it without higher authorities? Kind regards Jan ################### From: Chris.Breckpot@olvz-aalst.be Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 19:16:02 +0200 Subject: Lowrie seeds debate Hi all, From the reactions to my posting regarding germination problems with seeds of Lowrie, it appears that some other growers share my experience. IMHO the quality of his seeds was the main reason for my bad results instead of bad stratification, sowing procedure/medium/ conditions etc. The point is that I treated (stored, stratified, sow) seeds from different sources identically and simultaneously. It was clear that seeds from the ICPS (USA) and CPS (UK) seed banks germinated much better. Those seed banks offer plenty seeds of good quality and at low cost. I do not know who is to blame. Part of Allen/s seeds seem to come from other people, so maybe some seeds are bad before they arrive in his hands. Despite the overwhelming choice, his system has the major drawback that one never knows from where the seeds come and how old they are. I am sure that most of his suppliers are conscientious people who offer him viable seeds only. Reality seems toconfirm the assumption that there might be others too. From Allen/s viewpoint, I understand that it is difficult to solve this problem. I can think of indication of collection date (or year at least) and anonymous indication of the supplier (#01,12 etc). Realistic, unfortunately not foolproof and time- consuming. On the other hand, when I pay $3 for a few seeds, I believe it is reasonable to expect some effort to improve quality. To close, I would like to stress that by mailing this I did NOT want to offend Allen or anybody who offers him good seeds. Best regards, Christian Breckpot ' ################### From: Chris.Breckpot@olvz-aalst.be Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 19:17:40 +0200 Subject: tetrazolium John De Witte wrote: >You could control seed viability by using a 1% solution of TTC >(2,3,5-triphenytetrazoliumchloride, CAS 298-96-4, Sigma T- 8877). >Put some seeds in a small quantity (+/- 2 ml) of this solution. >After 24- 48 hours in the dark at 25 deg C. seeds that are viable >will show a red coloration. This however is no indication that they >will actually germinate. Hi John, Do you know more about the correlation between coloration and germination ? Best greetings, Christian Breckpot ################### From: dave evans Date: Tue, 28 Jan 97 16:29 EST Subject: Re: E-mail Down and fungicides > From: "Craig S. Gardner" > > As for fungicides I have had much better results using "Captan" than > with Benomyl. I have used Captan on just about every CP I own at one > time or another with no ill effects. Hi Craig, Captan is better than Benomyl, but DO NOT use it on Heliamphora or Darlingtonia. Dave Evans ################### From: "Demetrio Lamzaki" Date: Wed, 29 Jan 97 01:49:57 UT Subject: Re: Terrarium sized CP's >I would like any suggestions as to which Sarracenia, Nepenthes, >and Heliamphora species would be good choices for terrariums >that have 10" growing space above the spagnum level. Hi Brian, Here's a couple of suggestions, regarding Sarracenia try psittacina or purpurea venosa. Both tend to form spreading horizontal rosettes rather than tall pitchers (some older venosas become pretty big clumps with increasingly higher pitcher rosettes but that will take a while). One of the smaller members of the rubra complex could work too but that's pushing it. In general I grow all Sarracenia outdoors, the coloring on the plants is so much better using natural sunlight whether outdoors or in a greenhouse, plants that were solid green indoors under lights have turned the deepest red and purple since I brought them outside, plus their natural food intake is huge and makes for thriving and vigorous plants without you having to feed them at all (watching them catch prey is an adventure all its own). Of course, depending on the climate where you live or the lack of a growing area this might not be an option. If you do use a terrarium give them as much light as possible but beware of direct sunlight without ventilation, you could cook them. If you're interested in Heliamphora, H. minor is the best choice for such a height, it averages 3-inch tall pitchers (yes the name is very appropriate :-) Nepenthes-wise I strongly recommend ampullaria, it has unique looking pitchers, thrives in small terrariums, and is very hardy so long as the temperature never goes too low, depending on where you live you might need to provide a heat source. Good luck with your terrarium. Regards, Demetrios ################### From: "Demetrio Lamzaki" Date: Wed, 29 Jan 97 02:18:50 UT Subject: Mailer Meltdown Hi Everyone, Before I start I'd ask that all replies to this message please be made directly to me at dee_lamzaki@msn.com As some of you know I've recently had some interesting adventures with my computer. The best yet happened recently. I just installed a new mailer and my computer, in an act of defiance because I didn't consult with him before the change, decided to erase my address book. He's been punished and promises not to do it again, but that doesn't solve the problem. Which is the purpose of this post. If you have EVER written me a private email, whether two years ago or last week, please send me an email so I can recreate my CP address book. You don't have to write anything more than your name (although if you want to send a longer letter that's fine with me), your help with this is greatly appreciated. I'd also like to take this opportunity to thank everyone who gave me information on obtaining gibb acid both on and off the list. Regards, Demetrios ################### From: Fernando Rivadavia Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 13:35:54 +0900 (JST) Subject: D.roraimae curiosities and questions To all, I forgot to mention two very peculiar things I noticed in the pictures of D.roraimae shown to me by Shibata-san on Sunday, taken on her most recent trip to the Roraima Highlands. 1st, it appeared to me that the flowers were not pointing upwards, but sidewys and maybe even a bit downwards. HAs anyone ever noticed this with D.roraimae in cultivation? I've grown this species and believe the flowers were normal. 2nd, the flowers were bicolored!!! In the photo they seemed white with the base of the petals red, although Shibata-san told me the flowers were never truly white, but a very light pink. I always though the flowers were pure white in D.roraimae, and that's the color I remember in my cultivated specimens. Have any of you ever observed pinkinsh? Now the red petal bases is really interesting. As far as I know, all know Drosera species in the New World have unicolored corollas. The only exception was a new species I found in Brazil similar to D.chrysolepis which may occasionally have darker pink petal bases. So apparently flower colors in D.roraimae are not only variable in that they can be white to pinkinsh, but they may also have red petal bases. In the Brazilian species I've studied, petal colors seem to be controlled by ecological conditions (within genetic limits of color expression). Any observations on D.roraimae flower colors (as well as other Venezuelan species) are welcome, especially from those wh have been to that region (like Andreas - although it's been a long time for you and I don't know if you'll remember such a detail). Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia Tokyo, Japan ################### From: bertozzi.terry@wpo.pi.sa.gov.au Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 16:12:33 +0930 Subject: Taylor's monograph >Hi, being more and more interested in the Utr