################### From: thacker@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 02:50:40 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Australian pines (more of... > I have a few articles from the Aussie press. Except for some photo's, it's > mostly crowing and back patting(cigar smoking?) for the discoverers. > Becky > P.S. We have some Aussies on the line, why am I replying As long as were apparently adopting this subject as an okay off-topic topic, I might as well add my two cents. I think this discovery is fantastic...a group of pines, virtually unchanged for 200 million years, growing in some remote microclimate on the planet. Geez, only 39 of them (23 adult, 16 juvenile), that must be about the rarest plant on the planet. I understand that at least one seedling has germinated in the laboratory, and tissue cultures are being tried also. Just amazing...a fossil that has likely been rescued from the brink of extinction. When we are causing so many things to become extinct, rescuing a few, especially ones like this, seems a really positive kind of thing. Don ################### From: thacker@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 02:59:49 -0700 (MST) Subject: re: darlingtonia On Sat, 31 Dec 1994, peter cole wrote: (Re: Darlingtonia) > It seems to cope better than my Purpurea which I found > surprising. Of course, we don't get many nights that bad here in Wales - > average winter nights -5C -> 0C I'd guess, and very few sub-zero days. I find this surprising also. Perhaps the purpurea haven't been terribly hardy because you don't get the deep snow cover that they receive in their native range? Snow is an amazing insulator. I once killed some purpurea by trying to winter them in a garage which was attached to our house in Ottawa Canada (part of their natural range). I figured the warmth from the house would make for a relatively mild winter. It did when dealing strictly with air temperatures, but in the garage they of course had no snow cover for insulation and froze so solidly that they were dead as doornails in the spring. Don ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Sun, 01 Jan 95 11:20 EST Subject: Australian pines > As long as were apparently adopting this subject as an okay off-topic > topic, I might as well add my two cents. I think this discovery is > fantastic...a group of pines, virtually unchanged for 200 million years, > growing in some remote microclimate on the planet. Geez, only 39 of them > (23 adult, 16 juvenile), that must be about the rarest plant on the > planet. I understand that at least one seedling has germinated in the > laboratory, and tissue cultures are being tried also. Just amazing...a > fossil that has likely been rescued from the brink of extinction. When > we are causing so many things to become extinct, rescuing a few, > especially ones like this, seems a really positive kind of thing. This discovery seems a lttle like deja vu. Were not two other gymnosperm "living fossils", the Ginkgo and the Metasequoia, also discovered from a small stand of survivors? I vaguely remember another botanical wonder discovery a few years back... of a plant where the gynoecium formed a whorl around the androecium (as opposed to the opposite, which is normal for angiosperms)? Was this debunked? Michael ################### From: A.Wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 31 Dec 1994 16:00:00 +0200 Subject: Re: Australian pines (more off-topic) > I have heard a few tantalizing news snippets > about a stand of primitive gymnosperms > discovered very recently in Australia. > Unfortunately, local news sources have assumed > this topic lacks sufficient news-worthiness to > get any further coverage beyond the above > mention. In Germany you read a lot about this in the recent weeks even in daily newspapers! If anyone has access to seeds for in vitro.... ....I _might_ know somebody who _might_ be interested........ ;-) A happy new year 1995 and Good Growing! All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Sat, 31 Dec 1994 22:08:22 +0000 Subject: Re: Tassie Tiger > I think that the Tassie Tiger = Tassie Wolf (my Aust. Concise Oxford Dict. > lists them both as being Thylacinus cynocephalus). We tend to just call > them Thylacines. Microsoft's "Dangerous Creatures" CD has an item on Thylacines (including picture of last one living in captivity). It doesn't feature any carnivorous plants, but Encarta has a few! -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) ################### From: Perry Malouf Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 20:56:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: Kinabalu Park, the final 1.5 days Kinabalu Park, The Final 1.5 Days After a hearty breakfast, I met my guide in front of the Old Administration building on Thursday at 9 a.m. Today we were going to visit a small village outside of Kinabalu Park, whose Malaysian name translates to "White Sand". It took us about 45 minutes to drive there, at the slow jalopy speed, and again the drive was filled with beautiful mountain scenery. We passed many mountain-side farms where Chinese immigrants were growing various vegetables (broccoli, cabbage, hot chili peppers). One area had several structures that looked like greenhouses, except glass panels were replaced by black cloth. This was a mushroom farm, and the structures provided the perfect growing conditions--dark, warm, and moist. Many of these farms are owned by Chinese but are tended by Indonesian immigrant workers. We arrived in the village of "White Sand", and drove by several groves of cacao, betel nut, and durian trees. My guide saw an elderly gentleman walking along the road and asked him where we might find "periuk kera", the monkey's cup plant (Nepenthes). The gentleman said that he could take us to some, so I let him have my seat in the jalopy and I climbed into back of the flatbed. We drove along the road for another kilometer and parked at the gate of someone's house. The gentleman let us onto the property, past the house and into some fields--we were following a cattle trail. Immediately I could see why this village was called "White Sand", because that's exactly what we were walking on. In places where the few centimeters of topsoil were washed away, there was nothing but clean, fine white sand. On either side of the cattle trail, growing in the topsoil, were several plants of N. gracilis. These appeared like those we had seen the day before, only the plants were larger and had clambored farther through the tall grass and saplings. Pitchers measured about 10 cm high at the most, and were a light green with plenty of red mottling. We continued onward, over a wobbly cable suspension bridge that crossed a creek, and into a wide grassy plain. Here there were more N. gracilis plants, about one every 10 meters on either side of the sandy trail. I found this natural growth of N. gracilis to be very attractive. The plants wound their way upward through the tall grass, securing themselves by coiling tendrils around twigs and branches, and these tendrils produced pitchers which hung from the twigs in clumps of two or three together. There were also a few young plants growing as small rosettes in places where the grass was somewhat sparse. These were the only Nepenthes I saw that day. With the time we had left (most of the afternoon), my guide offered to take me where we might find some Rafflesia. Although I'm mostly a Nepenthes freak, the possibility of encountering the rare Rafflesia was quite tempting, so I agreed. For those who don't know about Rafflesia, I'll mention the few facts I learned about it. Rafflesia is the largest flower in the world and has no stems or leaves. It has five fleshy petals, can grow to about 1 m in diameter, is usually orange-red in color, and has a stench of carrion. It is a parasite, and grows on the roots of a certain wild shrub. The seeds need to be trampled into the earth by some large animal (e.g. a deer) near the roots of its host in order to germinate. On the rare occasion that Rafflesia is found, botanists have a field day. If the flower blooms on private property, the lucky owners make some money by charging admission to those who wish to see it--and most people are willing to pay the price because it is indeed a rare find. We drove to another location outside of the park, near a village whose name I have forgotten already. After parking the jalopy we hiked through some vegetable farms, started along a trail through a forest, then diverted off the trail into that thick forest. This was bush-whacking at its best. There was no trail, the growth was dense, and I didn't have a machete (which is standard equipment around there--every outdoorsman carries one). Fortunately my guide had all the "standard equipment", and he hacked a meager trail for me to follow. I took a moment to look around; every direction seemed exactly the same. There wasn't much light filtering through the treetops, I couldn't see the sun and there were no other reference markers. It must be easy for the inexperienced hiker to get lost in those woods! It wasn't raining, but everything was dripping wet. After a 20 minute hike my guide found a patch of Rafflesia. Unfortunately we were too late to catch one flower at its peak--it had already turned black but still retained its shape. Other flowers were almost completely rotted away. Very close by were some unopened Rafflesia buds, the largest of which (15 cm dia.) was about two weeks away from opening. It was shaped like an oblate spheroid, and the thin black membrane which wrapped it had separated along the top to reveal the enclosed light-orange bud. Another half hour of walking brought us out of that forest and back toward the farms we had passed earlier. We boarded the jalopy and headed back toward the Park, where we arrived at around 4 p.m. The next day we would take a trip to Poring Hot Springs, another research station in the Park, and look for Nepenthes there. This time the Park head botanist would accompany us, and we would have the use of one of the Park's 4- wheel-drive vehicles. On Friday morning I met my guide, the Park head botanist, and some other workers and we drove off. Before going to Poring Hot Springs, we had to drop off the other workers at one of the other field stations where they would go searching for some N. rajah plants. They were going to bring them back for use in an exhibit. Although the Park vehicle was more comfortable and refined than my guide's jalopy, the nasty construction road made for a very tough ride. I regretted having had breakfast, and I was holding tightly onto the vehicle's roll bar along the roof in an attempt to stabilize myself against the jostling. We made it to the field station, dropped off the workers, headed back down that terrible road, and proceeded to Poring Hot Springs. Upon our arrival, the head botanist showed us around. There is a building under construction which will house some brand new tissue culture laboratories. Nearby are some "open greenhouses" where orchids are kept. There were many, many plants collected from various locations in the Park, some of which were in bloom. We departed the orchid collection in time to see four deer stroll by the trail on their way to higher ground. They seemed abnormally tame--perhaps the Park employees feed them. There were no Nepenthes at the research station, but after leaving Poring Hot Springs we found some along the roadside. There were several N. gracilis plants similar to those I had seen in previous days. Nearby was a another rather large Nepenthes vine with pitchers that looked just like N. mirabilis var. echinostoma, a photo of which I had seen in Nature Malaysiana. Each pitcher was about 12 cm high and 2.5 cm in diameter, uniformly green, and the peristome was rather wide and formed a shelf all the way around the mouth of the pitcher. It was the peristome which helped me identify the var. echinostoma. We had to pick up the workers who were dropped off before, and I asked if I might be spared the ride on that construction road. Amusingly, everyone else had the same idea. We all got out at a market place, and the driver went on to pick up the other workers. For a half hour we mulled about, and I was getting quite a few stares from children and some adolescents. I guess they don't see many tall Caucasians around there, and I tried to be on my best behavior so that the locals wouldn't get any bad impressions. In other words, when they stared at me I didn't flip them the finger or stick out my tongue. :) Finally our vehicle came back to pick us up. In the back of the truck were two very large N. rajah plants in a bamboo basket, and one Paphiopedilum orchid which is endemic to Mt. Kinabalu. I noticed that the triumphant workers' trousers were filthy from the thighs down, and this made me feel pretty good. Why? Because I had to bust my fanny to see N. rajah in the wild, and I felt better knowing that even the experienced Park employees had to go through the same misery to find their plants. Okay, call me Petty (instead of Perry). One of the N. rajahs had a male inflorescence, and both had sizable pitchers--one pitcher was 30 cm from tendril attachment to lid attachment, and the lid was almost as long again. These plants were brought inside the new Administration building, to be potted up for the exhibit. With that, I returned to my room and packed my belongings, settled accounts at the Administration Office, and boarded one of the tour buses bound for Kota Kinabalu (the tour buses visit the Park every day). The bus stopped at a farmers' market along the way where wild honey, fruits, and some locally made souvenirs were being sold. After 10 minutes we were off again. It started to rain and continued until we arrived in Kota Kinabalu. In the first installment I made reference to the Hyatt Hotel being a welcome haven after my stay at the Park, and so it was! It was very nice to be in a dry, climate-controlled room with unlimited hot showers and no insects crawling around the floor. Upon some reflection, I realized that this trip fulfilled all of my expectations. I had seen and photographed Nepenthes: rajah, villosa, kinabaluensis, fusca, edwardsiana, tentaculata, lowii, burbidgeae, gracilis, mirabilis var. echinostoma, reinwardtiana, and one species which Kurata's book lists as "unidentified". Of these, only the edwardsiana and the "unidentified" species were not seen in their natural habitat (they were in the Mountain Garden). Also, I had a chance to see the rare Rafflesia flower (though it was past its peak), and I saw a lot of beautiful scenery. The Park staff were cheerful, friendly, very helpful and generous. If I am lucky I'll have another chance to go in my lifetime, hopefully while I'm still able to endure the hikes. ################### From: "Philip F. Wight" Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 18:04:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: CP video show Wouldn't everyone like to ride in Kon Tiki? I would. I supplied some of the radio equipment to Hyerdal for his second expedition, out of my Hongkong office. This was the one that sunk, including my beaut antenna tuner they had promised to return. Oh, well.... Cheers, Phil ---------------------- ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 09:21:32 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: N. rajah > > Hello CP fans, > > I was talking to fellow botanist friend interested in Nepenthes and N. > rajah and N. dentata came up in conversation. I imagine these are not > common in cultivation, but does anyone know if they are available and if so > from whom? > > Thanks and Happy New Year, > Greg Heck > > Uwe Wsetphal (from Germany) grows them in virto. As far as I know he can supply them again in summer. ..Michael -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: ksnive@pstbbs.com Date: Fri, 30 Dec 94 20:16:40 -0700 Subject: I.c.p.s. It appears that both Steve Baker and I have responded to Philip F. Wight's inquiries about his I.C.P.S. subscription privately not thinking that there might be a need to conduct any of the nuts and bolts business openly and wasting peoples time/bandwidth with things that should be privet, but I.C.P.S. has developed a bad reputation for putting people on ignore who have made inquiries in the past. I'm the newly elected secretary treasurer and accepted the nomination because I have some unresolved "issues" that are the result of my having been left on ignore for too long. For those who noticed it was the main thrust of my campaign. >Date: Fri, 30 Dec 1994 07:17:21 -0800 >From: clastic@metronet.com (Clastic) > >I am not certain...for I last sent in MY re-subscription >fees 5 years ago after being a member for some years...never >received another copy...and the editors never responded to >my mail. Anyone out there want to give me some contacts >that might involve living people? (smile) > >Regards, Clair Clair most of us are here alive and well glad to hear from you I can't make any promises about a 5 year old claim at this time but you can be sure I do take seriously any and all request's for information and or service. I know for a fact that the rest of us feel the same way. Unfortunately I have not yet received the records required to do the research on yours or any other requests yet. (I don't really take office for a few days.) I was into the US post office today trying to get a P.O. Box to conduct I.C.P.S. business through and they told me there will not be any available until Jan. 15 1995. I expect to set one up then and will make it public on or about that date for any one wishing to bypass Fullerton and contact me directly. You can of course also find us here. Pres. Rick Walker walker@opus.hpl.hp.com V.P. Christoph Belanger eheick@acs.bu.edu Sec/Tres Kevin Snively ksnive@pstbbs.com wl-Ksnive-nl@society.com ksnive@prostar.com Pub. Ed. Steve Baker STEVEB4706@AOL.COM Seed Bnk. Thomas Johnson CARNIPLA@AOL.COM I hope we can restore your faith, and THE public's confidence in the I.C.P.S. We work for the love of our society, and the love of these plants. Sincerely, Kevin Snively Secretary I.C.P.S. elect. ################### From: ksnive@pstbbs.com Date: Sat, 31 Dec 94 00:12:59 -0700 Subject: _darlingtonia_ >> Also I'd like to second the request for an estimation of how far north >> Darlingtonia might be winter hardy? I live in zone 6 and would like to >> try it if there is a reasonable chance for survival. >> James. > >Well...mine got down to 15 F and survived just fine, but you have to >remember that this is an isolated occurrence and doesn't last for long. >Seattle has had some really cold snaps - down to 5 or 6, but I chickened >out and brought all my stuff indoors. Kevin, what about you? Kevin >Sniveley lives up north of here where things get considerably colder for >such a small distance. I do not wish to try to set my self up as an authority of any sort on the subject of _Darlingtonia_ but will sight a few references and let you all draw your own conclusions. #1 Sunset New Western Garden Book June 1979 edition Page 268. Zones 4-7 and 14-17 Zone four is listed as the coldest with low temps. ranging between 19 and -7 deg F for the 20 years prior to printing. #2 Carnivorous plants of the Unites States & Canada By Donald E Schnell Page 52. Sea Level to 2800 m. (Well above the winter snow line) #3 Bulletin of the American Rock Garden Society Vol. 50 No. 3 Article by Fredric W. Chase, Jr. Page 210. Moderate winter-hardiness Not recommended for the authors area. ( Central Michigan ) My own experience has been that seed germinates well after winter in my back yard but seedlings die during the same season. Established adult plants do well year after year with the only winter losses due to the grubs of the Strawberry root weevil _Otiorhynchus ovatus_ which eat crowns and roots. Friends are growing _Darlingtonia_ out doors in Vancouver B.C. with no extra protection. >Andrew Marshall here in Seattle did such a setup. He planted a 20 gallon >long aquarium with sphagnum (live) and used an air pump attached to a >long bent tube to keep the water moving slowly. It worked fine. Andrew's article appeared in C.P.N. Vol. 21 No. 3 Page 78 and to my knowledge he is still happy with it. He is also the only one in the area I know who go's to this much trouble to grow this plant. I prefer drip irrigation operating once every three days, and a splash from the hose when I've got it out any way. I also prefer WHITE plastic pots as I believe they absorb less heat than the black ones. Remember that when growing plants out side a light mulch can extend the range well past what would otherwise be expected. Most people still ignore me when I brag about pushing a _Cephalotus_ to 17 deg F last winter or look at me like I'm some kind of nutcase. The the only protection it got was a light peace of land scape fabric and while it lost 7/8 of its original size it is still going. krs ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 11:53:31 -0500 Subject: Re: CP video show I second that, but for now would do with a tule boat. ################### From: barry@mips3.as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 11:26:54 -0700 Subject: TAXACOM >This is a posting from the BEN (Botanical Electronic News) > originally on TAXACOM How do I sign onto these? Barry ################### From: barry@mips3.as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 11:37:21 -0700 Subject: Pings and things >>right with my alpine/boreal Pings because I'm growing >>_grandiflora_ types, _vulgaris_, and _leptoceras_ all the same >Unless I am mistaken, these pings all require a cold dormancy >period. Are the winters in Arizona suitably cold to supply the >dormancy? Or do they receive an artificial winter? I guess I The bottom shelf of my refrigerator is suitably cold. They hide down there in plastic bags during their dormant period. When they break dormancy I stick them in the greenhouse. They respond to this artificial system well, except for the fact that they slowly drift out of synch with actual seasons. So right now my Canadian clone of _P.vulgaris_ and my _P.leptoceras are flowering, and _P.alpina is also growing, while other _P.vulgaris_ clones, and _P.grandiflora_ ssp., and _P.vallisneriifolia_ are dormant. Getting off the CP thread, I see. :) >"In Search of the Mysterious World of Carnivorous Plants" OK, this was funny! So now it's my turn... Recently I was watching MST 3K (a TV show) which presented the old horror flick _The Amazing Colossal Man_. At the beginning of the movie the main character gets burnt horribly. In the operating room scene, I'm SURE you can see the doctors packing the burn victim with moist Sphagnum. I'M NOT JOKING! REALLY! I recall reading it was used as surgical dressing in earlier times. Any medicos in this group know about the use of Sphagnum in wound care? It's good for cuttings too. B ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Mon, 02 Jan 95 14:32 EST Subject: TAXACOM I've tried several times to subscribe to TAXACOM, but have failed. My last attempt sent me an error message indicating they were having technical difficulties on their end. It's probably time for me to try again. Michael ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Mon, 02 Jan 95 14:38 EST Subject: Sphagnum and health > Recently I was watching MST 3K (a TV show) which presented the old horror I wouldn't place too much confidence in information gleaned from that show. :-) > flick _The Amazing Colossal Man_. At the beginning of the movie the main > character gets burnt horribly. In the operating room scene, I'm SURE you > can see the doctors packing the burn victim with moist Sphagnum. I'M NOT > JOKING! REALLY! I recall reading it was used as surgical dressing in earlier > times. Any medicos in this group know about the use of Sphagnum in wound > care? Hey, last I heard about Sphagnum from this group was the recommendation to wear gloves and a filter mask when dealing with the stuff! What gives!? Michael ################### From: R Britt Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 12:09:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Sphagnum and health Yes, it is very important to not directly come in contact with live sphagnum. The major health hazard is uncontrolled growth of all tissues, resulting eventually in attacks by USAF figher/bombers. On Mon, 2 Jan 1995, Michael.Chamberland wrote: > > Recently I was watching MST 3K (a TV show) which presented the old horror > > I wouldn't place too much confidence in information gleaned from that show. > :-) > > > flick _The Amazing Colossal Man_. At the beginning of the movie the main > > character gets burnt horribly. In the operating room scene, I'm SURE you > > can see the doctors packing the burn victim with moist Sphagnum. I'M NOT > > JOKING! REALLY! I recall reading it was used as surgical dressing in earlier > > times. Any medicos in this group know about the use of Sphagnum in wound > > care? > > Hey, last I heard about Sphagnum from this group was the recommendation to > wear gloves and a filter mask when dealing with the stuff! What gives!? > > Michael ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 22:18:24 +0000 Subject: Re: Chiltern Seeds 1995 I agree with Bob that Chiltern's catalogue is one of the best. They list some 4000-5000 species, so obviously their CP are only a tiny proportion. Most of their packets are between 1 and 2 UK pounds - perhaps more than they would be from a specialist, but I have always had good success with them, including Drosera cistiflora, which seems to be considered desirable. Another list I have is: Doug and Vivi Rowland 200 Spring Road Kempston Bedford MK42 8ND England Their list has more cacti and succulents than anything else, but also includes other interesting stuff, and around 110 types of CP, mainly Drosera, but including most genera e.g. 5 species of Nepenthes, 13 of Utricularia, plus Cephalotus and Genlisea. Their packets are most 0.75 UK pounds. No credit cards as far as I can tell, but personal US dollar cheques are acceptable. -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) ################### From: barry@mips3.as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 14:07:07 -0700 Subject: Thanks and congratulations >>Kinabalu Park, The Final 1.5 Days A great epic, Perry, thanks for taking the time to key all that in. That was great. I'm looking forward to going myself! A great connection you made with the botanist at the park! >Pres. Rick Walker walker@opus.hpl.hp.com >V.P. Christoph Belanger eheick@acs.bu.edu >Sec/Tres Kevin Snively ksnive@pstbbs.com >Pub. Ed. Steve Baker STEVEB4706@AOL.COM >Seed Bnk. Thomas Johnson CARNIPLA@AOL.COM Hey, did I miss the official announcement? In any event, great congratulations to Rick, Christoph, and Kevin for their election victories! Rick, now that you are in power, is it true you're going to take all the plants that are being grown poorly and put them in huge greenhouse orphanages? :) Barry ################### From: bertozzi.terry@wpo.pi.sa.gov.au Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 08:25:43 +0930 Subject: Re: pings Barry, >The bottom shelf of my refrigerator is suitably cold. They hide >down there in plastic bags during their dormant period. When >they break dormancy I stick them in the greenhouse. They >respond to this artificial system well, except for the fact that >they slowly drift out of synch with actual seasons. What do they hide in? Damp sphagnum? Also, how do you determine how long to leave them in the fridge for? Is this data just from a text? Terry ################### From: greg.long@factory.com (Greg Long) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 95 15:50:00 -0500 Subject: Winter CP food and Intro Hi to all members of the CP list, I have been reading the list for a while now and have learned much in a very short time. My name is Greg Long and I live in New York City. I have tried growing venus fly traps on and off for almost my whole life (I am now 32). About three years ago I decided to get serious about it and bought some small healthy looking VFT's and the New York Botonical Garden. I have been very diligent in the care of these plants and have been rewarded by healthy plants that love to eat the flies in my apartment. My children have also been interested and have learned a lot about CP's from our small collection. Recently I received a Nepenthes Mirabilis cutting from Tom in Florida and the cutting has started growing VERY well (see below). I am a biologist and toxicologist by training (B.S. in Biology, Ph.D. in toxicology) and conduct biological research pertaining to heavy metal toxicology in human and animal bone cells. I have no formal training specifically in CP biology or taxonomy, but I am learning. Thank you all for sharing your experience and knowledge on this mailing list. As I gain experience and knowledge I hope to continue to expand my collection of CP's. I would also like to say that although I have limited experience as a CP'er I grow many types of houseplants and my apartment windows look sort of like a jungle. SK>I searched outside, in the cold, for bugs that I could feed my SK>Drosera and Nepenthes. I couln't find one bug anywhere. It has been so warm in New York City this year that I still go out and grab flies, etc. outside. What a winter! SK>My N. Mirabillis cutting from Tom in Florida has survived the SK>transition to the greenhouse and seems to be doing well as SK>it's unfurling it's first true leaf. Pretty neat to watch SK>a miracle like that! Yes, my cutting from Tom is growing very well also. I have two true leafs (one open) and two pitchers (the largest is currently 3 cm tall, open, and growing like crazy). This is my first Nepenthes and it is fascinating to watch the pitcher develop and grow. --- . POW 1.1 0043 . Powerline Offline reader for Windows - New Windows OLR ################### From: Perry Malouf Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 21:04:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Thanks and congratulations Barry wrote:, > >>Kinabalu Park, The Final 1.5 Days > > A great epic, Perry, thanks for taking the time to key all that in. That was > great. I'm looking forward to going myself! A great connection you made with > the botanist at the park! I'm glad that you enjoyed it, Barry. I typed it out chronologically as it spooled out of my memory, and didn't take the time to refine the article or even do much spell checking. It was a little rough, and I'm happy that enough content got through to make for pleasant reading. Apparently there was enough information, because no one has asked me any questions yet. Wow, a self-sufficient article. That's a first for me :) Regards, Perry ################### From: blymn@awadi.com.AU (Brett Lymn) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 16:00:09 +1030 (CST) Subject: Re: N. rajah According to Michael Hasemann: > >Uwe Wsetphal (from Germany) grows them in virto. As far as I know >he can supply them again in summer. > oooh ooooh - have you a contact address? I would love my own N. Rajah! Since they are tissue culture I should not have any problems importing them :-) -- Brett Lymn, Computer Systems Administrator, AWA Defence Industries =============================================================================== "Aha! Pronoun problems. It's not `shoot you, shoot you', it's `shoot me, shoot me'. So, go ahead, shoot ME, shoot ME ... You're Despicable" -- Daffy Duck ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 09:28:32 GMT+1 Subject: Re: N. rajah Hello all, I have N. rajah available for DM 60,- + p&p per plant. Anyone interested in my current price list may contact me directly at a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de The new list for 1995 will be ready in 1-2 weeks. All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 11:17:43 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: white form of H. nutans Dear Christoph, I think, you should be carefully, oftenly, it depend on growing-conditions, if you get all-green Heliamphora; e.g. at Kukenan- and Roraima-Tepui, I have seen some all-green individuals of H. nutans, growing in 'weak' conditions, I mean at places with few light and much humidity. The same plant will change to read, if you put it into full sun and a substrate like peat. H. heterodoxa is usually also in nature more green as the other ones, mostly you find just a red rim and a red neck. Anyway, it would be nice, if they would be realy anthocyan-free forms. Until now, I know just about an all-green 'H. ionasii' from Ilu-Tepui. Thanks for information. All the best Joe N. (sorry, I meant red, not read colour :-}) (The plants will not read anything) ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 11:25:06 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: CP video show Is there a book of Peter d'Amato? About CP's???? Nice??? On Sat, 31 Dec 1994 R5M@aol.com wrote: > Hey Steve, > Great show, lets see if you can do it without cost overruns. > Becky > P.S. Have you seen the cover of Peter d'Amato's little book? > ################### From: Magnus.Thoren@planteco.lu.se Date: Tue, 3 Jan 95 15:25:44 +0100 Subject: RE: Winter CP food (fruit flies) I use wingless fruit flies (Drosophilla) to feed Pinguicula's and it works excellent. I freeze them before putting them on the plants. I don't think they can get away alive but it's easier that way and maybe it's cruel to put live flies om the plants. There is a risk that flying forms while appear and if they get loose they may turn into a pest (which they did in a student place where I was living). I think it's possible to obtain food to the fruitflies and perhaps also wing- or flightless fruitflies from a company could Carolina Biological Supply Company somewhere in the U.S. Magnus Thor`n Plantecology, Department of Ecology, Lund University Ekologihuset, S-223 62 Lund, Sweden Magnus.Thoren@planteco.lu.se "The future so bright I have to wear shades" ################### From: Steven Klitzing Date: Tue, 3 Jan 95 07:37:24 -0800 Subject: Re: CP video show Hi Becky: No, I haven't seen the cover of Peter d'Amato's book. Can you describe it? ---Steve ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 11:26:53 -0500 Subject: Re: CP video show Yes, and it's very good for beginners and the cover is a hoot. Send him $2 and ask him for his growth guide. ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 11:34:56 -0500 Subject: Re: CP video show It is a photo by Frank Nemec called "Sarracenia 'Abandon Hope'" something we might be able to develop if we ever come up with the colchesine. ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 11:43:13 -0500 Subject: Re: RE: Winter CP food (fruit... I have the address somewhere. They want $17-18 for us poor peons without institutional affiliation. So, perhaps some of you could finegle 2 and send them to us less fortunate... They also may be a source of colchecine. They also sell recombinant DNA "kits" Manana Becky ################### From: dkpurks%unicorn%telenet@uunet.uu.net (David K. Purks) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:53:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Winter CP food All of my active cp (Drosera, Pings, Utrics, Nepenthes) are in a large terrarium. The Drosera and Pings at least are quite happy to be munching on an infestation of fungus gnats. The D.capensis, D.binata, and D.adelae seem to be particularly covered with dead bodies. I'm also misting twice a week with a solution of Miracid and SuperThrive. It must be a good combination because all the mature Drosera are in bloom or producing buds, the Nepenthes are producing pitchers (except for N. x Dominni "intermedia" which is growing new leaves but has not produced a single pitcher since I got it in June), and the Utrics are blooming too. As a side note about the fertilizer spray, D.trinervia seems to be particularly sensitive to it - within a few hours of being sprayed all of the leaves fold up or over as if they had captured a bug and stay that way for 24 - 48 hours. It seems to be happy with it though because it's producing leaves rapidly and looks very healthy. Unfortunately, it's one of the few that is not blooming. (In case you're wondering, the plants are all blooming because they think it's spring / summer - the terrarium is heated by 4 x 40 watt bulbs which are on 16 hours a day (mostly at night)...daytime (their night) temps are about 45 and nighttime (their day) temps are 65-75) - this is in an otherwise unheated garage). Dave Northern Virgina where it hasn't snowed yet but it was 18F last night (Brrrrrrr) ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Tue, 03 Jan 95 12:30 EST Subject: RE: winter cp food (cruelty to flies) > I use wingless fruit flies (Drosophilla) to feed > Pinguicula's and it works excellent. I freeze them > before putting them on the plants. I don't think > they can get away alive but it's easier that way > and maybe it's cruel to put live flies om the > plants. Cruelty is the better part of the reason we grow these plants! Come on! :-) The vegetable horrors LIKE to feel the death struggle of tiny insects. It feels good on the trigger hairs and sessile glands. Most stimulating! Michael ################### From: Steven Klitzing Date: Tue, 3 Jan 95 10:13:05 -0800 Subject: shift in wife's CP attitude Hi all: Just wanted to drop you an amusing line. When I finished building my greenhouse, I put my handful of CPs inside. I began finding bugs to feed to the Nepenthes and the Drosera. Now, after a few weeks, my wife no longer throws household bugs away. When she finds bugs and smashes them, or finds recently croaked bugs on the windowsills, she immediately lets me know so I can collect them and feed them to the CPs. It saves her from having to patrol and clean for "ooky" bugs in the house. Now she's finding bugs in the bathroom, and leaving the dead critters on the sink shelf on a piece of TP so I can dispose of them. My mother-in-law recently visited and was surprised to see a note covered with dead bugs on a kitchen counter. It read "Do not throw away!" My wife did not have time to write down the reason why, which left her mom a little mystified until I came home. ---Steve ################### From: barry@mips3.as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 14:21:45 -0700 Subject: Horn Tooting and Pings Hey, I just got the new CPN and see that one of my photos made the cover! (*) \ | (*) / Regarding wintering Ping hibernacula.... >>The bottom shelf of my refrigerator is suitably cold. They hide >>down there in plastic bags during their dormant period. When >>they break dormancy I stick them in the greenhouse. They >What do they hide in? Damp sphagnum? >Also, how do you determine how long to leave them in the fridge >for? Is this data just from a text? I grow these _Pings_ in a sand/peat mix sitting in water several cm beneath the soil surface. Periodic checks in the greenhouse reveal when a _Ping_ is ready to hibernate---no new leaves are forming, and by inspecting the rosette center the plant is seen to have developed a dense hibernaculum. When the last leaves begin to yellow I drain the pot of excess water for a few hours and then pop the entire pot into a plastic bag and store it in the refrigerator. About a month later all the leaves have rotted away, leaving the hibernaculum bare. I usually disinter the hibernaculum and separate any gemmae. Then I replace the top few cm of soil with a pure silica sand mix and see that the hibernaculum and gemmae are all about half buried. I think this help reduce mould problems. Then the pot goes back into the bag in the refrigerator. Every month or so I open the bag for an air change and a quick peek. Sooner or later the _Ping_ hibernaculum begins to loosen---the small leaves begin to separate and spread like an overly mature artichoke flower. The plant is ready for a new growing cycle in the greenhouse. I don't use fungicides or sulphur dust or anything like that when I store my plants in the refrigerator. I also use this technique with my hibernaculum forming _Drosera_, although I'm not sure they're as picky. I seem to get just as fine results keeping them in the greenhouse year-round. Barry ################### From: Alexander Salomon Date: Tue, 03 Jan 95 16:21:30 EST Subject: CP source for beginners Well, I have recently been going through this pile of garden catalogs that in- evitably begin to accrue this time of the year if one has ever ordered from Burpee or whichever other company it was who sold my name 10 million times. Anyway, I was looking through one from Gurney's Seed and Nursery Company. On page 29, they offer a few CPs-not cheap but available for those without a local source. They offer VFTs 1 at $4.09, 2-3 @ $3.85/plant and 4 or more for $3.45. They also offer a "carnivorous Kit"-which consists of "a trumpet plant , A VFt and a pitcher plant. From the appearance, they mean, S.flava, S.purp, and Dionea. This kit is offered at 1 @ $8.75, 2-3 @ $8.15 and 4 or more for $7.35. This is not an endorsement of the firm-I have never ordered from them and do not know the source of their plants. If anyone is Inteerested, their address is Gurney's Seed and Nursery Co. 110 Capital Street Yankton, South Dakota 57079 phone number-(605)665-1671 If anyone does decide to offer, I would inquire first as to the source of plant s and would discourage purchase of any field collected plants -alex ################### From: "Houston, James A." Date: Tue, 03 Jan 95 17:37:42 Subject: CP Grow-Box Hi gang, Over Christmas, I visited a friend who is growing peppers and tomatoes in a 2'x4'x2' box that he built himself. He has between 8 - 10 pepper plants with only one tomato plant growing in this box. Why am I writing this? Since he built it himself, I think I can build one myself too, and I know it would work for CPs. The box cost my friend around $200 to build including 8 lights inside producing over 25,000 lumens. I was amazed. He can't find the guy's address who designed the grow box, but as soon as he finds it (shortly) I can send it along to you if you like. The plans cost $20.00 and they are drawn up by an electrical engineering firm. That's all I know about it right now, but I was amazed at how healthy his pepper plants were, and thought some of you might be interested; this is by no means an endorsement of any kind - since you build this box yourself. Email me if you're interested off-line: jh2@scires.com Happy CP growing!! Jim Houston -Atlanta- ################### From: eheick@acs.bu.edu Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 19:28:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: CP Grow-Box Why buy plans for $20 if you can build a grow box yourself for $16? I grow my lowland Nepenthes in one and they love it! Christoph ################### From: eheick@acs.bu.edu Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 19:31:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: white form of H. nutans Joachim, I would like to discuss the case of the white Nutans with you off line. My email address is eheick@acs.bu.edu, respond in German if you like. Christoph ################### From: "Brian Obrien" Date: Tue, 3 Jan 95 18:59:51 CST Subject: Re: TAXACOM I'd like subscription instructions to TAXACOM as well. Perhaps this could be posted to the list. Brian On Mon, 2 Jan 1995 11:42:03 -0800, Michael.Chamberland <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> wrote: >I've tried several times to subscribe to TAXACOM, but have failed. >My last attempt sent me an error message indicating they were having >technical difficulties on their end. It's probably time for me to >try again. > >Michael > > -- bobrien@gac.edu Brian A. O'Brien, Department of Chemistry, Gustavus Adolphus College Saint Peter, Minnesota 56082 U.S.A. tel. (507)933-7310 fax (507)933-7041 ################### From: Kay.Klier@uni.edu Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 21:49:36 -0600 (CST) Subject: To subscribe to TAXACOM, send a file containing the following single line to listserv@ucbcmsa.berkeley.edu: SUBSCRIBE TAXACOM yourname@internet.address You should get back a message from the listserver quite promptly. TAXACOM has moved around a bit: the Harvard address that shows up on a BOING search is invalid. Kay Klier klier@cobra.uni.edu ################### From: Adolf Ceska Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 20:04:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: TAXACOM How to subscribe to TAXACOM: Send the following message subscribe taxacom Your-first-name Your-last-name to listserv@cmsa.berkeley.edu I would add the command review taxacom just to see who is on the mailing list BTW, if you want to receive BEN (Botanical Electronic News) send me a message "put me on BEN" to aceska@freenet.victoria.bc.ca Happy New Year, Adolf aceska@freenet.victoria.bc.ca ################### From: "HERBERT D. KING" <75672.1174@compuserve.com> Date: 03 Jan 95 23:50:44 EST Subject: excuse me... the best incense 20 sticks per pack $1. minimum purchase 5 packs. rose, opium, black love, nag champa, vanilla, cinnamon, patchouli, sandalwood, blue nile, egyptian musk, coconut, rain. free incense holder with 12 packs. add $3. for shipping. CA residents add 8.25% sales tax. send check or money order to cynthia wiley, p.o. box 91098, los angeles, CA 90009-1098 int'l orders add $6. for shipping ################### From: Brian Jones Date: Tue, 3 Jan 95 22:18:53 PST Subject: Re: CP video show > > Yes, and it's very good for beginners and the cover is a hoot. > Send him $2 and ask him for his growth guide. > Did I miss something here (I hate it when that happens)? To whom should I send $2?? Anyway, while my CPs grow in a terrarium, I would like to grow something in the kitchen to eat flying insects. Any suggestions on a suitable species????? -BJ ################### From: Brian Jones Date: Tue, 3 Jan 95 22:14:44 PST Subject: Re: CP source for beginners [Note from Alex re: Gurney's plants deleted...] I don't know their source(s), but I DO know that they won't ship CP's to California, among other places... -BJ ################### From: Brian Jones Date: Tue, 3 Jan 95 22:20:53 PST Subject: Re: excuse me... Herbert, Why do you keep trying to sell incense on this list? Can we make him stop? -BJ ################### From: JR Parish Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 01:13:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: excuse me... On Tue, 3 Jan 1995, HERBERT D. KING wrote: > the best incense 20 sticks per pack $1. minimum purchase 5 packs. > rose, opium, black love, nag champa, vanilla, cinnamon, patchouli, > sandalwood, blue nile, egyptian musk, coconut, rain. free incense > holder with 12 packs. add $3. for shipping. CA residents add 8.25% > sales tax. send check or money order to cynthia wiley, p.o. box 91098, > los angeles, CA 90009-1098 int'l orders add $6. for shipping > > > Why don't you get the hint and stop this silly shit. This has nothing to do with CP's. ################### From: JR Parish Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 01:15:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: excuse me... On Tue, 3 Jan 1995, Brian Jones wrote: > Herbert, > Why do you keep trying to sell incense on this list? > Can we make him stop? > -BJ > May I suggest that everyone who is feed up with this incense thing copy and forward the message to postmaster@compuserve.com ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 22:28:47 -0800 Subject: Re: Thanks and congratulations Barry Meyers-Rice writes: > Rick, now that you are in power, is it true you're going to take all > the plants that are being grown poorly and put them in huge greenhouse > orphanages ? My first act in office will be to organize an international hunger strike on behalf of all the languishing supermarket VFT's. Our demands will include little plastic shields to prevent little kids from teasing the plants, plus regular feeding with live cicadas. We will also insist that several N. Carolina supermarkets be plowed under and converted back into bogs. Our second campaign will involve placing anti-bulldozer land mines at several strategic Sarracenia habitats. :-) :-). On the serious side, thanks for the congratulations! I'm counting on all the ICPS members for guidance and support in trying to shape the future of ICPS in 1995. Please write me with your suggestions. I'm trying to consolidate the ideas that I presented in my campaign statement with feedback from various letters that I've received. Hopefully this will result in some action and an article in one of the next newsletters. -- Rick ################### From: bertozzi.terry@wpo.pi.sa.gov.au Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 16:55:01 +0930 Subject: Re Grow boxes Cristoph, >Why buy plans for $20 if you can build a grow box yourself for >$16? I grow my lowland Nepenthes in one and they love it! Care to expand on your grow box i.e what is it made of, how big etc? ################### From: thacker@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 01:40:43 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: excuse me... On Tue, 3 Jan 1995, Brian Jones wrote: > Herbert, > Why do you keep trying to sell incense on this list? > Can we make him stop? Well, I've now bought $30,000 of incense...do you think this is just encouraging him? By the way, does anyone have any suggested cures for this annoying hacking cough I seem to have developed quite recently :-) Don ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 10:56:59 GMT+1 Subject: Re: TAXACOM Maybe I missed a message but... ...what is TAXACOM??? Andreas Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 10:56:59 GMT+1 Subject: Cuba & Venezuela (help?) X-Mts: smtp +---------------------------+ TM From: Paul Temple | | | | | | | | Dept: Digital | d | i | g | i | t | a | l | Func: Net Comms | | | | | | | | DTN: 7781-1582 +---------------------------+ Easynet: fangio::temple_p Internet: temple_p@bst.dec.com Loc/MS: UCG Ah well, itchy feet time again. I'm off to Cuba and Venezuela in February/March. Hope to cover all Cuba. Intend to prioritise the Andes rather than Lost World when in Venezuela. Can anyone help with information? I know all the Pinguicula species and I've my own copy of Casper's Monograph. If anyone has specific localities for any Pings (localities NOT listed by Casper) or any details on other plants of interest, I'd be very grateful for the information. I'm also interested in any people who might prove helpful in either Cuba or Venzuela, especially plant nurseries in or near Caracas (especially those catering for Bromeliads) (I'm copying the Brom conference on my request too). Thanks for any feedback. I will of course post a visit summary if I succeed in going, finding anything, coming back! The latter is the weak point - I don't want to come back!!! Regards Paul ################### From: Ivo Koudela PGDS-KChF Date: Wed, 4 Jan 95 14:26:20 MEZ Subject: Casper monograph Does anybody know about an English translation of the Casper's Monographie der gattung Pinguicula? I've heard it exists anywhere... Ivo PS:Jan, may I ask you where in the Czechoslovakia were you born? It is very interesting! Thanks. ################### From: Kay.Klier@uni.edu Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 07:31:42 -0600 (CST) Subject: >Maybe I missed a message but... >...what is TAXACOM??? >Andreas TAXACOM is a listserv for taxonomists... mostly news and announcements, and also a fair number of questions on herbarium policies, where to find proper wet specimen storage jars, and any of the 80,000 other things we taxonomists often have rattling around in our heads... ;-) I first heard of it several years ago in an issue of Taxon (the IAPT journal). Kay Klier klier@cobra.uni.edu ################### From: "Paul Temple" Date: Wed, 04 Jan 95 14:03:55 +0000 Subject: Have you info on Cuba/Venezuela? +---------------------------+ TM From: Paul Temple | | | | | | | | Dept: Digital | d | i | g | i | t | a | l | Func: Net Comms | | | | | | | | DTN: 7781-1582 +---------------------------+ Easynet: fangio::temple_p Internet: temple_p@bst.dec.com Loc/MS: UCG Jan You've probably already seen I'm going to Cuba/Venezuela. I hope you don't mind if I ask some info of you, in case you can help. Have you an English translation of the Cuban Ping entries in Casper? I'm only after the descriptions of where the plants grow. Do you happen to know what state the Pings will be in in February/March - growing/, resting?, or what? Have you any good location details for P. elongata? Any Ping info not already in Casper woiuld be great. Any other CP info also of interest for Cuba or Venezuela. Many thanks. Regards Paul ################### From: Adolf Ceska Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 06:12:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Casper monograph On Wed, 4 Jan 1995, Ivo Koudela PGDS-KChF wrote: > Does anybody know about an English translation of the Casper's > Monographie der gattung Pinguicula? I've heard it exists anywhere... Jost Casper may know. Here is his address: Dr. Jost S. Casper Institut fur Spezielle Botanik Friedrich-Schiller-Universitat Philosophenweg 16 O-6900 Jena Deutschland - Germany Best regards, Adolf Ceska (I was born in Jindrichuv Hradec, if you are curious.) ################### From: "Philip F. Wight" Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 05:36:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: excuse me... I've posted direct msgs to him threatening to lodge complaints with CompuServe if it continues. I don't understand the motivation of jerks like this - are supposed to burn the incense for our cps, or feed it to them? :-) Cheers, Phil ---------------------- On Tue, 3 Jan 1995, Brian Jones wrote: > Herbert, > Why do you keep trying to sell incense on this list? > Can we make him stop? > -BJ > ################### From: "Paul Temple" Date: Wed, 04 Jan 95 14:27:12 +0000 Subject: Re: new pricelist 1995 +---------------------------+ TM From: Paul Temple | | | | | | | | Dept: Digital | d | i | g | i | t | a | l | Func: Net Comms | | | | | | | | DTN: 7781-1582 +---------------------------+ Easynet: fangio::temple_p Internet: temple_p@bst.dec.com Loc/MS: UCG Andreas I sent a reply to your "new" price list last year but got no response. i guess my mail system failed, a normal occurrance! Sorry if you already received my request but, if not, I'll repeat it (if I can remember it) here. Heliamphora 1 of -heterodoxa 30,- 1 of -ionasii (true one!!!) 200,- 1 of -tatei var. tatei (!!!) 190,- If I'm still in time to order these, please tell me what to doi next. And excuse my ignorance but what are the differences between H. nutans (Form from Tramen) and any other H. nutans? Regards Paul ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 10:48:00 -0500 Subject: Re: RE: winter cp food (cruel... The address for Carolina Biological Supply is 2700 York Road Butlington, N.C. 27215 Write them a note on your institutional stationary. ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 10:57:05 -0500 Subject: Re: CP source for beginners I've had trouble with Gurney's. See they live in the tundra, and by the time they ship stuff to you, planting season is over. Then again, I'm not real happy buying from a comercial firm when we have availability on line... ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 10:58:45 -0500 Subject: Re: excuse me... can we unsubscribe this fellow ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 11:09:25 -0500 Subject: Re: CP video show California Carnivoires 7020 Trenton-Healdsberg Rd. Forestville CA 95436 USA Send $2 ask for the Growth Guide. I found these people very helpful and patient. ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 18:40:19 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: Have you info on Cuba/Venezuela? Dear Paul, I know, that Jan has good maps and some more detailed information about all the Ping's of Cuba, he will be in again next week, so you can ask him. A botanist of E-Germany has visited the location of P. lignicola, but I have forgot her name; I want to look, if I will find it. In the Andes of Venezuela, Drosera cendeensis would be very interesting; as I know, the only known location of it is 'near Cende'; at the maps, it doesn't look to difficult to reach it. The original material of it 'disappeared'. Maybe I can also find locations of P. elongata in Venezuela, I want to have a look. Do you know the book of Vareschi: Tropenoekologie? It is in German language, I don't know, if there exist an English translation, but you can learn a lot about the vegetation of Venezuela (he lived about 40 years there.) Have a good time there Bye Joe N. On Wed, 4 Jan 1995, Paul Temple wrote: > +---------------------------+ TM From: Paul Temple > | | | | | | | | Dept: Digital > | d | i | g | i | t | a | l | Func: Net Comms > | | | | | | | | DTN: 7781-1582 > +---------------------------+ Easynet: fangio::temple_p > Internet: temple_p@bst.dec.com > Loc/MS: UCG > > Jan > > You've probably already seen I'm going to Cuba/Venezuela. I hope you > don't mind if I ask some info of you, in case you can help. > > Have you an English translation of the Cuban Ping entries in Casper? > I'm only after the descriptions of where the plants grow. > > Do you happen to know what state the Pings will be in in February/March > - growing/, resting?, or what? > > Have you any good location details for P. elongata? > > Any Ping info not already in Casper woiuld be great. Any other CP info > also of interest for Cuba or Venezuela. > > Many thanks. > > Regards > > Paul > > ################### From: ksnive@pstbbs.com Date: Wed, 04 Jan 95 00:59:10 -0700 Subject: Not cp. I've just recived my favorit spring seed catalog. It has nothing to do with Cp. but I still want to tell you about it. Oregon Exotics Rare Fruit Nursery 1065 Messinger Rd. Grants Pass Or. 97527 U.S.A. Ph. 503-846-7578 They speicalise in Fruits, Barrys, Veg. ect... from South America, and espicely Asia. They offer HARDY CITRUS with edible fruit! Amoung 100's other things you will not see in any other catalog this year if ever. A must have for botinasts with a culinary intrest. krs ################### From: "Paul Temple" Date: Wed, 04 Jan 95 18:25:55 +0000 Subject: Re: Hello +---------------------------+ TM From: Paul Temple | | | | | | | | Dept: Digital | d | i | g | i | t | a | l | Func: Net Comms | | | | | | | | DTN: 7781-1582 +---------------------------+ Easynet: fangio::temple_p Internet: temple_p@bst.dec.com Loc/MS: UCG Kei I only just saw your introduction mail. Just wanted to ask if you were a friend of Isao Takei? Regards Paul ################### From: "Paul Temple" Date: Wed, 04 Jan 95 18:22:03 +0000 Subject: Re: You want pictures?? +---------------------------+ TM From: Paul Temple | | | | | | | | Dept: Digital | d | i | g | i | t | a | l | Func: Net Comms | | | | | | | | DTN: 7781-1582 +---------------------------+ Easynet: fangio::temple_p Internet: temple_p@bst.dec.com Loc/MS: UCG Sorry this is so late but, having just returned from Xmas hols, I couldn't resist rersponding to the initial hornets nest of Marcel Lecoufle's book and it's "*best*" status. I don't necessarily disagree with the comments on pictures. However, CPN did review this book. It was a challenging (I'm being polite) review, full of phlegm, venom even. The summary of the review was to ignore the text of Marcel's book!!! The author of the review (I forget who but it was one of CPN's editor's) also spared no blushes for the technical editor who was blamed for allowing Marcel's errors to be published uncorrected. I am that technical editor. With the traditions of the USA firmly in mind, CPN and the editor in question were damned lucky I didn't sue them for big money (despite disclaimers - "the views expressed aren't necessarily those of CPN" - no good when the views are written by the editor!). The review was totally correct in criticising Marcel's knowledge and text and in criticising the English translation from original French. However, I wrote (and still have a copy of) a three page criticism of the text and translation, which I sent to the publishers. I offered assistance in correcting the errors if given direct access to Marcel. Unfortunately the offer was refused, the book was published with errors intact and my name printed as technical editor without my permission. The lessons - for CPN: be more careful about who you accuse of what or risk getting sued! for me: avoid editing anything by Marcel for you all: buy Marcel's books for the great pictures but be very careful about what text you believe! It feels so much better to get that off my chest. I do so hate being libelled! Regards Paul ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 20:30:35 GMT+1 Subject: Re: Have you info on Cuba/Venezuela? > I know, that Jan has good maps and some more detailed information about > all the Ping's of Cuba, he will be in again next week, so you can ask him. > A botanist of E-Germany has visited the location of P. lignicola, but I > have forgot her name; I think it was H. Dietrich (but I might be completely wrong ;-) It's just a name which I discovered in a corner of my brain...) Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 20:35:11 GMT+1 Subject: Re: new pricelist 1995 > And excuse my ignorance but what are the differences between H. nutans > (Form from Tramen) and any other H. nutans? The pitchers are more slender and less "trumpet-shaped" than typical H. nutans. They are also less ventricose... It's a little difficult for me to find the right words but they just look different ;-) Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: R Britt Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 11:19:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: excuse me... Actually the incense post appeared all over the Usenet. I saw it a mac games board, for example. So no direct link to CP's. -rdb On Wed, 4 Jan 1995, Philip F. Wight wrote: > I've posted direct msgs to him threatening to lodge complaints with > CompuServe if it continues. I don't understand the motivation of jerks > like this - are supposed to burn the incense for our cps, or feed it to > them? :-) > > Cheers, > Phil > ---------------------- > > > On Tue, 3 Jan 1995, Brian Jones wrote: > > > Herbert, > > Why do you keep trying to sell incense on this list? > > Can we make him stop? > > -BJ > > ################### From: greg.long@factory.com (Greg Long) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 95 12:01:00 -0500 Subject: CP Grow-Box ->Why buy plans for $20 if you can build a grow box yourself for $16? ->I grow my lowland Nepenthes in one and they love it! ->Christoph What exactly is a grow box and how can I build one for $16? --- . POW 1.1 0043 . Powerline Offline reader for Windows - New Windows OLR ################### From: bertozzi.terry@wpo.pi.sa.gov.au Date: Thu, 05 Jan 1995 08:13:58 +0930 Subject: RE Taxacom > TAXACOM is a listserv for taxonomists... mostly news and >announcements, Is it restricted to only plant taxonomy or do the other kingdoms get a go as well? ################### From: Steven Klitzing Date: Wed, 4 Jan 95 15:44:08 -0800 Subject: Re: CP Grow-Box A grow box is probably like the one they have in the CP greenhouse at UC Berkeley Botanical Gardens. You have a tray on the bottom that collects water so it doesn't rot your wooden benches. Then, it's basically an upside down aquarium. No glass on the bottom. four glass sides, and a glass top. I think making a grow box out of clear plastic from a plastic shop might be easier to build, cut, and work with. You can take the clear plastic parts and weld them together with xylene. And you can make the top plate removable for plant maintenance. Lexan would be a good material, and it would have better insulating qualities than glass...though a little more expensive. Either glass or plastic would work, glass being heavier and subject to breakage. Cutting clear lexan to exact sizes costs about $1 per cut at a plastic shop. The plastic does not need to be really thick. Probably 1/8" thick material would work. Hey, I think this solves my dilemma about finding water catching trays that fit my benches! ---Steve ################### From: Adam Wexler Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:00:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: RE Taxacom I tried the address given earlier and I kept getting messages back that said address unknown! Do I just have the wrong address: listserv@u.cbcmsa.berkley.edu ? I really want to subscribe. -ADW ################### From: eheick@acs.bu.edu Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 20:09:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: CP Grow-Box > > A grow box is probably like the one they have in the > CP greenhouse at UC Berkeley Botanical Gardens. > You have a tray on the bottom that collects water so > it doesn't rot your wooden benches. Then, it's basically etc, etc... this is pretty much what I meant, only, mine is not that complicated, or potentially pretty as the one above might be. Mine is 60x60x100cm and made of 1x2inch pieces of lumber. To make it more sturdy I screwed it together with wood screws. As floor I used a piece of plywood that was lying around, lined it with plastic, and covered the enire frame with 2 mill plastic that can be bought in a hardware store. No joke, the entire thing cost $16, although I have to say that the lights were not included in that, nore the looks of it. At some point when I am rich I was planning on replacing it with something more esthetically pleasing. For now though, my lowlanders loveit! One of the CPN issues had a detailed describtion of one, I would have to look up which issue though. Christoph ################### From: Kay.Klier@uni.edu Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 19:21:48 -0600 (CST) Subject: Subj: RE Taxacom >> TAXACOM is a listserv for taxonomists... mostly news and >>announcements, >Is it restricted to only plant taxonomy or do the other kingdoms >get a go as well? What???!!! People want to study other-than-plants???? Yes, there are various types of animal taxonomists (or perhaps taxonomists of various types of animals) subscribed, though I've yet to see anyone that I recognize as a taxonomist of prokaryotes responding to the list. As you might expect, there's quite a bit of discussion of software for keying, data retrieval, etc., and a thread on GIS (geographic information systems) a while back (if I'm recalling the right list!) The address is listserv@ucbcmsa.berkeley.edu I may have mistyped it previously, as I'm currently dealing with a cold that I'd like to give back to its previous owner. Kay Klier Biology Dept Univ. Northern Iowa klier@cobra.uni.edu ################### From: peter cole Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 01:49:03 GMT Subject: re: incense 20 sticks per pack. > the best incense 20 sticks per pack $1. minimum purchase 5 packs. Presumably these would be for incensivorous plants :) PETER COLE - SWANSEA, WALES ################### From: ATLAS1@JEFLIN.TJU.EDU Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 22:42:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: (re)Introduction Hi all. It's Doug Atlas, back on the group (I had been off since last August). For those who don't know me, here's a brief intro: I have been growing cp for about 6 years. I have had good success with the more "common" species and hybrids, but not much experience with the more exotic ones. My favorite group of cp these days is Nepenthes. Four months ago, I went back to school and (unfortunately) had to give away a lot of my cp; I onlyl kept my Nepenthes, plus a few other "fun" species of CP. But virtually all of my north american cp had to go. :( I would be interested in hearing from any CP growers in the Philadelphia, PA area (my new home away from home). I may have extra Nepenthes for trade/free. The CP I still have are doing well. The N Mixta 'superba' is producing pitchers that are over 20 cm long. Wow. My N eymai finally started to pitcher; it is producing cute little upper pitchers (the cutting I received must have been taken from upper growth). I got good germination on various nepenthes seed from the cpn seedbank. Anyone out there have an extra n ampullaria for trade? I have been looking for one of these for a couple of years, but the only ones I've seen are from overseas and very pricey. Happy new year to all, and good growing! Doug ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 09:08:09 GMT+1 Subject: Re: (re)Introduction > Anyone out there have an extra n ampullaria for trade? I have been > looking for one of these for a couple of years, but the only ones I've > seen are from overseas and very pricey. I have N. ampullaria in vitro and should have the first ones for trade or sale in summer or autumn. The clones I have are from Irian Jaya. I am looking for N. petiolata and other species but would also trade for hybrids with "interesting" parentage. All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 10:54:49 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: (re)Introduction Hey Doug, nice to see another Nepenthes-freak. If Andreas don't have, maybe I will get some until late summer or autumn, depending on growing situation and success. If you know about Nepenthes or Heli.-seed, I am always interested in it. Joe N. ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 11:02:23 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: N. sp. Sumatra Hello, does anybody know something about the N. spec. Sumatra, which was availagle at the CPN-seedbank? Maybe somebody knows where it does come from or who has introduced it. Are there still seed available of it for trade? By the way, does anybody know, if N. spathulata has been crossed in the last year or will be crossed? I have heard, that there are several growers in the USA with male and female plants. Bye Joe N. ################### From: "Claus Rodemer" Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 12:23:26 CET-1CST Subject: Re: Hello > Kei > > I only just saw your introduction mail. > > Just wanted to ask if you were a friend of Isao Takei? > > Regards > > Paul Who ?? What ?? Where ?? Sorry.... Claus ################### From: Heiko Rischer Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 12:51:02 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: (re)Introduction > > > Anyone out there have an extra n ampullaria for trade? I have been > looking for one of these for a couple of years, but the only ones I've > seen are from overseas and very pricey. > > I have also N. ampullaria (in vitro/cuttings) . Mine are not pricey :-] but also for trade (hi Andreas and Joe ;-) ). Heiko ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 14:33:16 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: (re)Introduction > > > > Anyone out there have an extra n ampullaria for trade? I have been looking for > > one of these for a couple of years, but the only ones I've seen are from > > overseas and very pricey. > > > I have also N. ampullaria (in vitro/cuttings) . > Mine are not pricey :-] but also for trade (hi Andreas and Joe ;-) ). > > Heiko > Is this going to end up in an internet-shop ? I am feeling a little irritated about these increasing more or less commercial (yes, I have seen your smileys.) offers. (not to talk about this as a financial source for "Victorian time" plant hunting.) (and also not to talk about all that tissue culture stuff originating from dubious ("University supported" ?!) sources. Right, this is none of my business.) ..Michael -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 ################### From: Christopher Waldrop Date: Thu, 05 Jan 1995 07:46:07 -0600 (CST) Subject: Pings I bought three unidentified pings from Peter Pauls Nurseries last summer, two of which are still alive. They have begun doing very strange things, although my limited knowledge of botanical terminology prevents me from describing it in detail. Basically they seem to be forming very small, reddish orbs at the center of their rosettes. Anyone have any idea what this could be? Could they be forming their winter resting buds? I'm also curious to know what species they are, if anyone with more knowledge of pings out there knows what the Peter Pauls plants are. ################### From: HERMANN.WISTUBA@KFB.x400.basf-ag.de Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 14:55:04 +0100 Subject: Re: (re)Introduction An: 5289 X400HOST Alle Benutzer im DISSOS Von: WISTUBA LUFAROHB Dr. Wistuba Datum: 5. Januar 1995 Betreff: Re: (re)Introduction Michael, see your mail from 03.01.95. Regards, Hermann ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 15:26:33 GMT+1 Subject: Re: (re)Introduction Dear Michael, you wrote: > Is this going to end up in an internet-shop ? I am feeling a little > irritated about these increasing more or less commercial (yes, > I have seen your smileys.) offers. > > (not to talk about this as a financial source for "Victorian time" > plant hunting.) a few days ago you wrote: >>Uwe Wsetphal (from Germany) grows them in virto. As far as I know >>he can supply them again in summer. >>..Michael A sudden change of mind??? (;-)) > (and also not to talk about all that tissue culture stuff originating > from dubious If tissue culture is dubious then I'm proud of being able to do this dubious things. Otherwise I do not right understand what a large scale propagation by "high tech" has to do with Victorian-style plant hunting??? Who the hell hunts his in vitro stuff??? I usually go to the basement working all night at my laminar flow which I had to buy from my money (no support!). Usually the plants sit in their flasks and are quite easy to remove without any need to hunt them. I'm looking foreward receiving an explanation! > ("University supported" ?!) sources. Right, this is none > of my business.) None of us is University supported! Please try to find out more exactly what people you offend really do before flaming them in the public! > > ..Michael > If somebody searches for a plant I am able to supply either by _trade_ or sale, shall I ask a friend: "Hey could you write a message, telling that I have these things for trade (or aso sale)" instead of doing this myself. I regard this as childish. As a consequence you'll have to ban all informations on CP sources from this list. I think I am right that one aspect reading such lists for many people is getting infos where to _trade_ _or_ _buy_ CP's (in our case) or other stuff. All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: "Houston, James A." Date: Thu, 05 Jan 95 10:11:07 Subject: Re Grow boxes Hello again gang, I must say that first of all, the "grow box" plans are *not* mine, I'm not even positive if it's called a "grow box" either. I'm not making a dime here, honest. Also, with all of the incense nonsense, I'm a bit gun-shy about trying to "sell" anything. I'm just passing along some information because I thought you might be interested. I just saw this box, and I was *so* impressed with it, that I had to tell someone who might be interested. I realize you can build a grow box, or a light box for a lot less money, but I've seen those types of contraptions, and I wasn't impressed. This grow box really impressed me, that's why I had to mention it to you. >Why buy plans for $20 if you can build a grow box yourself for >$16? I grow my lowland Nepenthes in one and they love it! I hear you on that. The major difference with this box I saw was that it gave somewhere between 8 and 10 plants about 1 square foot of intense light. The pots the plants were growing in were not big at all, and contained a good nursery mix of soil as a growing medium. That's all. The pots could be pulled out, and replaced easily at any time, as there were "cutouts" which the pots seated into. With that idea, one could easily spin the plants, but really, there was no need to do that, the peppers were surrounded with intense light from all sides. >Care to expand on your grow box i.e. what is it made of, how big >etc.? Again, this is *not* my grow box; the one I saw was made of simple plywood, 4' high, 4' long, and 2' deep. It was painted white inside, and stained and finished on the outside, and it looked nice. It had two doors which opened, and gave access to the box from the front. When the doors were closed, you couldn't see the plants. Depending on what you decide to construct the doors from (e.g. plastics) you will be able to see the plants inside. The box wasn't very big/obtrusive. I suppose, you could use plastics on all of the outside walls, but again, the one I saw was strictly plywood, and not very heavy, I would venture to say that it weighed around 30 - 40 pounds. My friend told me he had around $200, maybe $250 with the plans, etc. tied up in the project. The amount of bang for your buck by doing it yourself was what impressed me the most. If you can handle a jigsaw, screw driver, and a paint brush, you can build this thing, and it will last a lifetime. Essentially, once you have the plans, you can substitute the building materials, _the interior lights_, etc., will be a fixed cost though, I think around $175.00. From what I can determine, there are smaller plan models available, and obviously, those grow boxes would cost less to build. I haven't seen the plans yet, but they are all $20. Anyone can email me off-line about further info, as soon as I get it, I'll be happy to pass it along to you. Just send me your email address. Happy Growing, Jim Houston jh2@scires.com ################### From: telenet!unicorn!dkpurks@uunet.uu.net (David K. Purks) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 11:12:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: Drosera flower spikes Now that I have a variety of Drosera blooming at the same time, I've notice something strange...most of the plants produce spikes which grow vertically from the center of the rosette. D.aliciae is doing something totally different. As the spike grows, it unrolls horizontally along the top most layer of leaves until it reaches the outer edge of the rosette and then it straightens up and grows vertically until it reaches maximum height (about 4 inches for mine). I thought this was accidental when the first spike was produced but I have a second one which has done the exact same thing. Anyone else see this behavior or is my plant doing something unusual because of some environmental condition? Dave ################### From: "Houston, James A." Date: Thu, 05 Jan 95 11:34:24 Subject: Re: You want pictures?? I have to start this message off by simply saying "wow". >Sorry this is so late but, having just returned from Xmas hols, I >couldn't resist rersponding to the initial hornets nest of Marcel >Lecoufle's book and it's "*best*" status. Paul, the book is a good book. I believe I was the one who started the whole discourse (your Subj. line is one I sent) because at that time I was new to the world of CPs. My wife works at the library and was bringing home book after book on the subject. The book by Marcel Lecoufle was my favorite one out of all of the books she brought home - yes, because of the pictures. BUT....you do deserve some credit as well! Please don't feel badly about some criticism. As far as I am concerned, the book in conjunction with the text is *very* good for people who are new to the hobby. I am a novice CP grower, like most people. The majority of people on this list are experts, and most knowledgeable. My only question about the textual content was that Drosera Spatulata was spelled D. Spathulata. No big deal, but I wanted to be correct when I spoke of this plant among professional CP growers, that's all. I find the book most informative otherwise. >I am that technical editor. And I am impressed to find that out too. I have the book in my hands as I type, and sure enough, you *are* the Tech. Ed. My first brush with CP greatness!! >The review was totally correct in criticising Marcel's knowledge and >text and in criticising the English translation from original French. >However, I wrote (and still have a copy of) a three page criticism of >the text and translation, which I sent to the publishers. I offered >assistance in correcting the errors if given direct access to Marcel. >Unfortunately the offer was refused, the book was published with >errors intact and my name printed as technical editor without my >permission. I seriously doubt that people will hold the technical editor responsible for a book. Readers never understand the politics that goes on behind the scenes like that, because we are not privy to that discourse. In closing Paul, I like the book, I bought the book, and I use it as a reference book. The text is not as bad as some people seem to think. Again, I get most of my information from that book first, then I refer to other books or to this list for specifics. I love this list, the people on this list are genuine CP lovers and are very sincere and helpful. Is there any way you can post the 3 page letter to the publisher which should squelch any of the textual inconsistencies? Most of us have the book in question (I think). Jim Houston jh2@scires.com ################### From: "Warrington, Pat" Date: Thu, 05 Jan 1995 08:07:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: re taxacom Yes! Adam Wexeler- I suscribed successfully several days ago to "listserv@cmsa.berkeley.edu" -Pat Warrington ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Thu, 05 Jan 95 12:24 EST Subject: Re Grow boxes I suppose that only the top and front panels of a grow box need be made of transparent material, if it is to be used indoors under lights. If the sides and back are constructed from opaque white-colored material the plants should benefit from light reflected off these surfaces back into the box. In fact, the very photon-frugal might build doors, painted white on the inside, to close over the front panel when the box is not being viewed. (silver mylar has also been advocated for its reflective property). Michael ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 19:57:15 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: (re)Introduction > > > An: 5289 X400HOST Alle Benutzer im DISSOS > > Von: WISTUBA LUFAROHB Dr. Wistuba > > Datum: 5. Januar 1995 > Betreff: Re: (re)Introduction > > Michael, see your mail from 03.01.95. Regards, Hermann what's wrong with that one. I *do not* benefit from any sales Mr. West- phal makes neither from any Allan Lowrie or anybody else makes due to references/source information given in this list. This is in contrast to people (no offense intended!) who try to earn a golden nose by opening "internet shops". I know there is no clear border and I regret to have given my comment on this (particularly be- cause there is no real problem in this list, yet). Please be refered to the "netiquette". Best wishes, ..Michael > > > > -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 20:34:02 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: (re)Introduction Dear Andreas, I am sorry and I hope you accept my excuses if you feel personally of- fended by my last posting. This was not my intent. > Dear Michael, > > you wrote: > > > Is this going to end up in an internet-shop ? I am feeling a little > > irritated about these increasing more or less commercial (yes, > > I have seen your smileys.) offers. > > > > (not to talk about this as a financial source for "Victorian time" > > plant hunting.) > > a few days ago you wrote: > > >>Uwe Wsetphal (from Germany) grows them in virto. As far as I know > >>he can supply them again in summer. > > >>..Michael > > A sudden change of mind??? (;-)) In contrast to you I do not benefit nor I make any sales because of this list. It is abuse of the net for commercial purposes I do not agree with. Please be refered to the netiquette. Meanwhile I also regret to have started this discussion as there is no real problem here (yet). > > > (and also not to talk about all that tissue culture stuff originating > > from dubious > > If tissue culture is dubious then I'm proud of being able to do this > dubious things. Otherwise I do not right understand what a large > scale propagation by "high tech" has to do with Victorian-style plant > hunting??? Who the hell hunts his in vitro stuff??? I usually go to > the basement working all night at my laminar flow which I had to buy > from my money (no support!). Usually the plants sit in their flasks > and are quite easy to remove without any need to hunt them. > I'm looking foreward receiving an explanation! So if it is so easy to propagate them why do not you sell them hobbyists prices. I mean if I see astronomical high prices for whatsoever species I get the idea the price covers more than just the costs of propogation, but also costs for travelling and reasonable profit margins. This appears to be commercial business based on demand and offer. Please be refered to the netiquette. > > > ("University supported" ?!) sources. Right, this is none > > of my business.) > > None of us is University supported! Note the question mark. I am sorry if you got me wrong on this. Thanks, for clarification. > Please try to find out more exactly what people you offend really do > before flaming them in the public! My deepest excuses again. Again, I regret to have started this discussion and I got my lessons from it. > > > > > ..Michael > > > > If somebody searches for a plant I am able to supply either by > _trade_ or sale, shall I ask a friend: > "Hey could you write a message, telling that I have these things for > trade (or aso sale)" instead of doing this myself. > I regard this as childish. Maybe, this is a borderline case. > As a consequence you'll have to ban all informations on CP sources > from this list. I think I am right that one aspect reading such lists > for many people is getting infos where to _trade_ _or_ _buy_ CP's (in > our case) or other stuff. Read the netiquette! > > > All the best > > > Andreas Yepp, best wishes and greetings ..Michael > Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany > Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de > Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 > -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: Kyle Williams Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 10:37:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: Tissue Culture of Drosera I was wondering if some of you out there could give me some advice on tissue culture of Drosera (D. capensis and D. binata specifically)? I am an undergraduate student taking a class on tissue culture and my professor has given us a project where we choose a plant (such as a house plant) to reproduce through this method. One piece of information I need right away is what culturing media is appropriate so that I can get it ready ASAP (my teacher gave us two days to find this out!). I have not been able to find any sources on tissue culturing Drosera, so any information you have or you could direct me to would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Kyle Williams Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo, Ca. "Life's a journey not a destination, and I just can't tell just what tomorrow brings" ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 20:48:19 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: Re Grow boxes > > I suppose that only the top and front panels of a grow box need be > made of transparent material, if it is to be used indoors under lights. > If the sides and back are constructed from opaque white-colored material > the plants should benefit from light reflected off these surfaces back > into the box. In fact, the very photon-frugal might build doors, painted > white on the inside, to close over the front panel when the box is not being > viewed. (silver mylar has also been advocated for its reflective property). Right, if you cover the front panel (panes) with something insulating such as styrofoam you may reduce condense water. Ergo: When you show the plants to your friends they (the plants) present themselves behind clean/dry glass panes. > ..Michael > Michael > -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Thu, 05 Jan 1995 12:35:02 -0800 Subject: Tissue Culture of Drosera Dear Kyle, > I was wondering if some of you out there could give me some advice on > tissue culture of Drosera (D. capensis and D. binata specifically)? > I am an undergraduate student taking a class on tissue culture and my > professor has given us a project where we choose a plant (such as a > house plant) to reproduce through this method. One piece of > information I need right away is what culturing media is appropriate > so that I can get it ready ASAP (my teacher gave us two days to find > this out!). I have not been able to find any sources on tissue > culturing Drosera, so any information you have or you could direct me > to would be greatly appreciated. It has been some time since we've discussed TC formulas. I'm also just a beginner, but here is a list summarizing what I know (with great appreciation to Jan Schlauer, Andreas Wistuba, and Tom Hillson for their input!) If anyone else can add to this list, please do! --------------------------------------------------------- Summary of CP Tissue Culture Formulas and References by Family and Genus: Sarraceniaceae {DUMORT.} Darlingtonia {TORR.} Heliamphora {BENTH.} Sarracenia {L.} - 2/3 Knudsen C(*) with BAP, ABA for mult and root - 1/6 MS, is second choice Byblidaceae {DOMIN} Byblis {SALISB.} - Sigmas modified MS (1/2 x macro-, 1 x micro-)(M0153) + BAP, IBA sometimes vitrification trouble with B.gigantea - Bunn 1985. Australian Horticulture. 83(5):103 Cephalotaceae {DUMORT.} Cephalotus {LABILL.} - Sigmas modified MS (1/2 x macro-, 1 x micro-)(M0153)+BAP, IBA - In vitro propagation of Cephalotus follicularis (Australian Pitcher Plant). HortScience 14, 521-513 Droseraceae {R.A.SALISB.} Aldrovanda {L.} Dionaea {SOLAND. ex ELLIS} - Hutchinson 1984. Scienta Horticulturae 22:189-194. - Beebe 1980. Bot. Gaz.141(4):396-400. - Parliman et al. 1982. J.Amer.Soc.Hort.Sci. 107(2):305-310. - Parliman et al. 1982. J.Amer.Soc.Hort.Sci. 107(2):310-316. Drosera {L.} - 2/3 Knudsen C (*) - Janssens 1986. Med.Fac.Landbouww.Rijksuniv.Gent. 51(1):61-66. - Anthony, J. (1992). In vitro propagation of Drosera spp. HortScience 27, 850. Drosophyllum {(L.) LINK} Nepenthaceae {DUMORT.} Nepenthes {L.} - 2/3 Knudsen C(*)with 0.2-2mg/L BAP for mult. Rooting horm. not neces. - Anderson's may be used also (N. ephippiata likes it). - Lowland only: (DeKanel) .5 MS, 20g/L Sucrose, 6g/L agar. w/ 0.1-0.2 BAP multiplying w/ 2mg/L IBA rooting Dioncophyllaceae {(ENGL. & GILG) AIRY-SHAW} Dioncophyllum {BAILL.} Habropetalum {AIRY SHAW} Triphyophyllum {AIRY SHAW} Lentibulariaceae {L.RICH.} - Bill Carroll's media (ICPN v11 n4 12/82 pp. 93-96) - 1:5 MS Genlisea {ST.HIL.} - 1/5 MS for G.pygmaea Pinguicula {L.} - Adams et al. 1979. HortScience 14(6):701-702. Utricularia {L.} -Pringsheim & Pringsheim esp. for aquatics Amer.J.Bot.49:898-901 (1962) -Carrols's ONLY for large-lvd. sp: U.alpina, longifolia, calycifida *= You may add 37,26mg/l Na2EDTA and 27,8 mg/l FeSO4 x 7H2O. I always add the MS-vitamins to the Knudsen C medium. General References: 1. Achieving the sterile state for home tissue culture, Part I, Brian Johnson, CPS Journal 14, 18-19. 2. Achieving the sterile state for home tissue culture, Part II, Brian Johnson, CPS Journal 16, 9-10. 3. Tissue culture of carnivorous plants at Oxford. Steve Woodward, et al. CPS Journal 15, 16-19. 4. Tissue culture of carnivorous plants. Gareth Davies et al. CPS Journal 12, 17-20. 5. In Vitro propagation of the Butterwort Pinguicula moranensis, Richard Adams et al. HortScience 14(6), 701-702. 6. Tisserat et al. (1992). Microwave sterilization of plant tissue culture media. HortScience 27, 358-361. 7. Plants from Test Tubes - an introduction to micropropagation, Lydiane Kyte, 1987 Timber Press (Oregon), ISBN 0-88192-040-1 -- Rick Walker ################### From: Ron Gagliardo <74002.1371@compuserve.com> Date: 05 Jan 95 20:10:28 EST Subject: Re: In vitro Nepenthes Happy New Year! I saw the recent discussion on tissue culture sources, etc. of Nepenthes and thought I'd share a few thoughts on the subject. I would urge anyone soliciting plant material from any source, especially tissue culture sources, to request data from their respective sources. It is my understanding that many of the cultures of "rare" species may have originated from wild collected seed. I realize that not all in vitro cultures originated this way, some may have been started with seed produced in cultivation (I have started some with seed produced in the greenhouse, as have others), but has anyone actually flowered N. rajah male and female in cultivation??? Unless the collectors were present during the pollination of the particular pods they collected or know absolutely that there were not other possible parent species within pollinating range (I confess to not knowing what such a range is) the only way to discern the true identity would be to grow the plants out to an identifiable size. Please understand, I am NOT attempting to discredit anyone or their motives, as I think they are generally good and I applaud your efforts, but I think that some of the folks who may not be so familiar with the process need to know all the facts. I am not accusing anyone of distributing plants that are not correclty identified, but I would be very cautious of breaking open your piggy bank for Nepenthes species A, that might turn out to be Nepenthes species A x species B. I have tried to retrieve data for tissue cultured plants received and was told it was unavailable. Don't just request the data, DEMAND it! There has been a big influx of seeds and plants collected in SE asia in recent times and it seems like folks might be retracing the steps of others because there is no circulation of data. This is not in the best interest of the plants, nor of the collectors. I don't know of a botanical "freedom of information act," but it seems like we're past due for some coordination and cooperation in our efforts to perserve these plants. Again, this is not directed at anyone in particular, but a plea for growers to know your source and maintain the data along with the plant. In my opinion, the seller should be required to supply the following data with their plants: Collection location or cultivation source collection dates who collected it storage if applicable, how long in vitro how long out of vitro (important for your success in growing a new arrival) If wild collected, possible male parent Ask your tissue culture source if they have grown plants on to near maturity or at least to a size that indicates a true identity. As for the high prices, that's pretty much a matter up to the seller and buyer. Having been in the tissue culture business for a number of years (totally out of it now), I can say that large scale labs can produce an established plant from tissue culture for $0.25 to $0.75 on average (that's for foliage plants like spathiphyllum, anthurium, syngonium, ferns, etc.), BUT that is when they gear up to do thousands of each variety. (At Hungry Plants, we produced a couple hundred thousand Dionaea in 1992 and 1993 at prices in that range, but with the exception of a few, most Nepenthes do not grow in vitro as quickly as Dionaea, making this an unfair comparison.) The cost per plant naturally drops as production is increased and becomes more economical. The current high market prices for tissue cultured Nepenthes are needed partly to fund direct operating expenses, but I imagine that a good part goes to cover past and future seed hunts. I better end with some more positive news, that being that tissue cultured Nepenthes (and other genera, carnivores and non-carnivores alike) seem to grow more vigorously possibly because they are more disease and stress resistant than seed grown plants. This might be the factor breaks down some of the barriers to their cultivation in our collections and that's a great thing to look forward to! Good Growing and Happy Hunting! Ron Gagliardo ################### From: Peter Cole Date: Thu, 05 Jan 1995 18:24:50 GMT Subject: The Private Life of Plants List followers in the UK might like to know ( if you don't already, ) that BBC1 are screening 'The Secret Life of Plants' starting Wednesday. David Attenborough is presenting it, and it will be showing ( among other things, ) a lot of time lapse photography. I don't know how much carnivory will be represented, but evidently some - there is a close-up of a Drosera leaf ( looks like Rotundifolia to me, ) in the feature on page 5 of this week's TV Times. The inevitable accompanying book is graced with a rather fetching shot of a frog on a Nepenthes pitcher ( tall and green, but I'm not au fait enough with Neps to hazard a guess. ) Enjoy, Peter Peter Cole | carnivor@bunyip.demon.co.uk | RIP - Drosera Binata Swansea, WALES | new mailbox, same account. | eaten by the cat 3/1/95 | Old mailboxes still active. | ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Thu, 05 Jan 1995 18:50:55 -0800 Subject: BIOLOGICAL CONSERVATION NEWSLETTER Gordon's original message bounced due to some bad mail headers that were included in the message. I'm forwarding back to the group now. -- Rick ------- Forwarded Message Although cp were not prominently mentioned it' easy to see that some of what occured here could effect some of us . hope this info is useful. -- GORDON C. SNELLING To: Multiple recipients of list x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x BIOLOGICAL CONSERVATION NEWSLETTER x x December 1994 x x x x published by x x x x Dept. Botany, Museum of Natural History, Smithsonian Institution x x [Editor: Jane Villa-Lobos (mnhbo019@sivm.si.edu)] x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x electronically published on x x x x CONSLINK x x a service of the x x Conservation & Research Center x x Smithsonian Institution x x Front Royal, VA 22630, USA x x [Editor: Michael Stuewe (nzpem001@sivm.si.edu)] x x ++++++ x x This newsletter is distributed free-of-charge on CONSLINK. x x Please feel free to forward it to anyone interested, x x as long as you do not charge for that service and you fully x x acknowledge the Editor and CONSLINK as sources. x x Should you want to distribute this newsletter and intend to x x charge your subscribers in any way, please contact both, x x the Editor of the newsletter and CONSLINK before you do so. x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x BIOLOGICAL CONSERVATION NEWSLETTER No. 139 December 1994 Smithsonian Institution Department of Botany, National Museum of Natural History Editor: Jane Villa-Lobos ________________________________________________________________ CITES COP9 MAIN RESULTS FOR PLANTS By Bruce MacBryde The 9th meeting of the Conference of the Parties (COP9) to the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) was held during 7-18 November 1994 in Fort Lauderdale, Florida (USA). Background on the treaty and plants is available in proceedings of the biennial COP meetings (1976-1994), and reports or minutes of the annual meetings of the CITES Plants Committee (1988-1994) and CITES Plant Working Group (1984-1987). Among the resolutions decided upon were: (1) replacement of the 1976 criteria and 1979 proposal format for documenting inclusion of species (fauna and flora) in CITES Appendices I and II with detailed clear and more scientifically objective criteria and the corresponding format for proposals; (2) the establishment of guidelines for inclusion of species in Appendix III; (3) consolidation (with some updating) of all the CITES resolutions; and (4) adoption of detailed criteria to begin international registration of those exporting nurseries that qualify in the artificial propagation of taxa in Appendix I. Six countries (Thailand, India, Madagascar, Kenya, Switzerland and Mexico) proposed successful amendments to the CITES appendices for plants, to list 4 species, uplist 20 species, downlist 8 species, and delist 2 species. Moreover by withdrawal of proposals, the cactus Astrophytum asterias stayed in Appendix I, and Camellia chrysantha stayed in Appendix II. The 24 additions to Appendices I and II enter into force on 16 February 1995. As sought respectively by Madagascar (with Switzerland) and by Thailand, export-import controls were strengthened and shared by uplisting to Appendix I 19 succulent Malagasy species: Pachypodium ambongense, Euphorbia cremersii and 17 rare Aloe spp. (mostly dwarf aloes), and the mainly Thailand orchid Dendrobium cruentum. Artificial propagation of some of these taxa is extensive, and cooperative efforts will be made by several countries (including USA) to facilitate propagation and/or the availability of the propagated specimens. Eight taxa were downlisted to Appendix II: five succulents - Euphorbia primulifolia, Pachypodium brevicaule but with no adult wild plants to be exported before COP10 in 1997, P. namaquanum, Leuchtenbergia principis and Mammillaria plumosa, and three orchids - Didiciea cunninghamii, Cattleya skinneri and Lycaste skinneri var. alba. Two species were delisted from Appendix II: the ornamental aroid Alocasia sanderiana, and the succulent Aloe vera - with which there are additional problems, such as the continued listing of A. vera var. chinensis (syn. A. indica), that were referred to the CITES Plants Committee (CPC). Proposals were rejected that would have made use of Appendix I controls by listing the New Zealand endemic Dactylanthus taylorii to stop the international commerce in its wood- roses, and by uplisting from Appendix II the Asian orchids Cypripedium cordigerum, C. elegans, C. himalaicum and C. tibeticum. Asian plants mostly withdrawn (one species rejected) from proposed listing in Appendix II were: Berberis aristata, Gentiana kurroo, Colchicum luteum, Rheum australe, Aconitum deinorrhizum, A. ferox, A. heterophyllum, Coptis teeta, Picrorhiza kurrooa and Nardostachys grandiflora. These 10 species will be evaluated by the CPC through its newly endorsed project on medicinal plants, in cooperation with the new IUCN SSC Medicinal Plants Specialist Group. One African and three Asian tree species were included in Appendix II, which are used for medicinal or other chemical purposes and as well for their wood: Prunus africana, Pterocarpus santalinus, Taxus wallichiana and Aquilaria malaccensis (syn. A. agallocha). Amendment of the redsanders (Pterocarpus) proposal excluded finished musical instruments, formulations and chemical derivatives; amendment of the Himalayan yew (Taxus) proposal excluded final medicines (e.g., taxol). The Latin American Swietenia macrophylla (bigleaf mahogany) and its natural hybrids with S. humilis (amended to regulate only the logs, sawn wood, veneer and plywood sheets) received 50 votes in favor and 33 votes against inclusion in Appendix II, which was 6 votes short of the two-thirds majority needed. Four proposals that had sought to include other tropical tree species in Appendix II to regulate their timber were withdrawn because of political or also technical considerations: in Africa - Dalbergia melanoxylon, Entandrophragma (ca. 11 spp.) and Khaya (ca. 6 spp.), and in Asia - Diospyros mun. A Timber Species Working Group was established under the CPC to improve implementation of CITES for such species. Additionally, the International Tropical Timber Organization (ITTO) at its 8-16 November 1994 meeting (in Yokohama, Japan) decided to encourage liaison between ITTO and CITES and to invite CITES to make a presentation at its May 1995 meeting in Accra, Ghana. The Parties doubled representation in the CITES Plants Committee for the three large developing regions, and selected nine regional members (as well as some alternates). The next CPC meeting is planned for May or June 1995 in the Canary Islands, hosted by Spain. The CITES Guide to Plants in Trade was published in 1994 and available for the Parties at COP9. The CPC will continue to support studies of significant trade, and work on an orchids checklist and the 2nd edition of the cacti checklist. COP10 is planned for the first half of 1997 in Zimbabwe. To obtain COP9 information, see for example the U.S. Federal Register notices published on 4 & 8 November 1994 and/or contact: U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Office of Scientific Authority, 725 Arlington Square Bldg., Washington, DC 20240; Tel.: (703) 358-1708; Fax: (703) 358-2276. Permit questions should go to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Office of Management Authority's Permits Branch, 432 Arlington Square Bldg., Washington, DC 20240; Tel.: (800) 358-2104; Fax: (703) 358-2281. ------- End of Forwarded Message ################### From: and_tax@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 05 Jan 1995 22:44:00 +0200 Subject: Re: Drosera flower spikes >...which grow vertically from the center of > the rosette. D.aliciae is doing something > totally different. As the spike grows, it > unrolls horizontally along the top most layer > of leaves until it reaches the outer edge > of the rosette and then it straightens up > and grows vertically until it reaches maximum > height (about 4 inches for mine). That s the way they do ;-) > I > thought this was accidental when the first > spike was produced but I have a second one > which has done the exact same thing. It s definitely the usual behaviour of D. aliciae and others. Nothing to worry about. Andreas Andreas Wistuba Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ################### From: and_tax@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 05 Jan 1995 22:37:00 +0200 Subject: Re: Tissue Culture of Drosera > I was wondering if some of you out there could > give me some advice on tissue culture of > Drosera (D. capensis and D. binata > specifically)? I am an undergraduate student > taking a class on tissue culture and my > professor has given us a project where we > choose a plant (such as a house plant) to > reproduce through this method. Droseras are not very difficult to grow and propagate but tricky to getting them into culture via the vegetative parts as they re quite soft and delicate. Try to grow them from _seeds_ which _are_ _easy_ _to_ _sterilize_ and easy to germinate in vitro. > One piece of > information I need right away is what culturing > media is appropriate so that I can get it ready > ASAP (my teacher gave us two days !!! %-\ > to find this > out!). Try 2/3 strength of Knudsen C without hormones for germination. For propagation you have to try what Cytokinine gives you best results. Sorry, but I ve never grown D. capensis or D. binata in vitro and optimizing propagation rates is always trial and error. > I have not been able to find any > sources on tissue culturing Drosera, so any > information you have or you could direct me to > would be greatly appreciated. All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ################### From: Brian Jones Date: Thu, 5 Jan 95 22:10:06 PST Subject: "Net Shopping" Hey, I LIKE seeing these posts that X is available. If there is a monetary fee attached, well, its my choice if I want to pay. Anyway, it sure beats getting 90 messages saying "Please email me if you have any plants for sale" each week! -BJ ################### From: Martin.Zevenbergen@ALGEM.PT.WAU.NL Date: Fri, 06 Jan 1995 11:46:03 +0100 (CET) Subject: introduction and colchicine Hello everybody, I didn't post anything on the list yet, so I will introduce myself first: My name is Martin Zevenbergen from The Netherlands, I'm growing cp's for almost 10 years with some interruptions. On the moment I'm not very active except some cp's on the windowsill at my work. (Drosera capensis, hamiltonii, dielsiana, intermedia, spathulata and Utricularia alpina) I work at the department of Plant taxonomy from the Agricultural University in Wageningen as laboratory assistant. Some days ago somebody (I don't remember who) was talking about colchicine, presumably to make tetraploids out of (normal) diploids. Well, if you want to buy this stuff, you can also order it at any big chemical company like Sigma or Merck. They have affiliates in many countries all over the world. If you want to have an adress, you can ask me. When you are going to use it, I have to give you a warning because it's really very poisonous, and you need to take some precautions like gloves, (dust mask), labcoat. Good luck, Martin Zevenbergen ################### From: Ivo Koudela PGDS-KChF Date: Fri, 6 Jan 95 13:17:46 MEZ Subject: a Studnicka's book Some times ago I posted a message where I offered to send anyone a book"Masozrave rostliny" (Carnivorous Plants) by M.Studnicka. Reently I visited a local shop which had sold it and found out this book is still available. So if you are interested in it, I'll be able to send you this book for the price 1 copy...$6, 2 ...$10, 3...$15, 4... $20, 5...$23. (postage included!) For the description of the book, look into the file 'cpbooks' in the server (e.g. send a message 'get CP cpbooks' to listserv@opus. hpl.hp.com) Ivo PS:Adolf, thanks for the address of Mr.Casper. I'll try to ask him about an English version of his monograph. ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 11:23:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Re Grow boxes Good lord boys, you talking about a cold frame? ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 11:43:41 -0500 Subject: Re: BIOLOGICAL CONSERVATION N... Will we be getting this newsletter on this line? Or do we subscribe? Becky ################### From: Nancy Dagley Fraley Date: Fri, 06 Jan 1995 11:59:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: intro Greetings, I am a new subscriber to this listserv and believe it is policy to introduce oneself. I am a field botanist and presently work with a regional heritage program monitoring federally and state listed plants for a seven state area. I do not own any cp but am very interested in getting started on a small scale hence, I am subscribing. I read on this serv of another listserv relating to taxonomy--could someone repeat the address and the proper name of the serv. I tried subscribing to listserv@cmsa.berkeley.edu with 'subscribe taxcom' and another time 'subscribe taxonomy'--- 'No such listserv' was the reply. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am a novice at this business. ################### From: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 06 Jan 1995 12:15:00 +0200 Subject: Re: In vitro Nepenthes Dear Ron, you expressed some ideas which I share but many others I do not. You wrote: > flowered N. rajah male and female in > cultivation??? Unless the collectors were > present during the pollination... Experience tells me that more than 90% of the tissue cultured Nepenthes that go round are true and I can tell this not only for the plants friends of mine or myself give away. Problems with the accuracy of labelling usually start when pure horticultural business is the sole cause for sale (=_real_ large scale propagation for garden centers etc.). Fortunately Nepenthes are not that popular so that smaller labs like mine (:-)) have a chance to exist solely for the "hobbyist market". If you look around _who_ is propagating Nepenthes in vitro you see that most of the people are really in the subject and know very very well what they grow. I would tell the same for myself and this is by no means meant in an arrogant way. Unfortunately it s a different story of accurancy of labelling with plants which are grown in botanical gardens or other collections since decades, unfortunately often by people who have no real botanical interest but just need plants for display. In Europe many of such collections had to survive two wars not to mention generations of gardeners with very inhomogeneous interest for special groups of plants. It s simply a matter of likehood that with the time the chance for accidental mislabeling rises. Cuttings of such, mostly victorian-time hybrids or _rarely_ also species are often given away for free to hobby growers who are often not experienced enough to judge if a plant (often an adult one ;-)) is labelled correctly. I further feel and that also is not meant arrogant (but maybe a little proud) that relatively few people to which I d count myself have introduced many species to the collections simply as a consequence of tissue culture techniques. Others are now available at prices which impressively dropped making e.g. N. rajah a plant everybody can grow _without_ _paying_ _huge_ _sums_ _or_ _being_ _in_ _danger_ _of_ _buying_ _wild_ _collected_ _plants_. These techniques made it possible to propagate species which could not otherwise be propagated at all. And - furthermore the accurancy of labelling has greatly improved because almost all plants sold really are what the label says. > Don't just request the data, DEMAND it!... Most suppliers (including myself) sell their plants not just as e.g. Nepenthes tentaculata but as Nepenthes tentaculata (Gunung Rajah) in all cases where it is still possible to trace back the origin of the mother plant growing in a botanic collection or the origin of the seeds. Unfortunately this is not always possible and in many cases exactly the clones which are grown in botanical gardens for long periods of time are the problem-childs where there is a chance near zero to trace back the origin. > In my opinion, the seller should be required to > supply the following data with their plants: > > Collection location I fully agree with you in this point as long as it is possible (see above). > or cultivation source ? > collection dates Why? What s important is the location. > if applicable, how long in vitro Why? > how long out of vitro (important for your > success in growing a new arrival) Of cause all plants have to be established prior to sale. However as you should know this period varies greatly from species to species... Only to give the info of a date does not mean that the plant is established. In fact it means nothing for the grower who is not really into tissue culture. What counts in the end is only the state of the plant. No matter how long the establishing period took. > If wild > collected, possible male parent Come on, be realistic (;-)), who would like to camp near a location to wait the three months from pollination to harvest his hand-pollinated seeds - sorry, I could not resist......;-) What really is important is the fact that the supplier guarantees for the labelling and that the plants are well established. > Ask your tissue culture source if they have > grown plants on to near maturity or at least to > a size that indicates a true identity. I feel that every person including the gardener makes mistakes. That s simply human. What is important is that suppliers stand for what they sell and return the money or change the plants in case a mislabelling has occured. I know nobody who never gave away a wrong labelled plant simply by mistake... ... and I also know nobody who sells plants knowing that they re wrong labelled. Most of the Nepenthes you and others grow would not be that widespread if the suppliers had always grown a sample specimen to full maturity. For N. villosa or similar species I d estimate periods of around 10 years to grow them to maturity! These plants would not have a chance to enter collections if there would be such a lag. And - _what_ _makes_ _you_ _so_ _sure_ _that_ _parents_ _which_ _look_ _true_ _really_ _are_ _true_. According to Mendel s rules this is not necessarily _true_. The phenotype of a livig being does in no diploid case tell everything about the genotype. You would need to do anther-culture to have all genes relevant for the phenotype really expressed in the phenotype and still - what s with all the genes which do not express theirself in a clearly visible phenotype. It s (in the strict sense) an illusion to speak of true or untrue species at all when referring to the danger of hybridization. You find populations of Nepenthes where nobody could guarantee that there are _"true"_ individuals at all. Many plant species are of hybridogenic origin, also including Nepenthes "species". What is a species? (;-)) But to be serious again: There are some populations (mainly disturbed ones!) which show extremely high degrees of hybridization (e.g. Gunung Ulu Kali and it s three sp. N. sanguinea, macfarlanei and gracillima) but in many other populations it s difficult to find adult hybrid plants at all (...showing appearent hybrid- phenotype ;-)). Well, if you look for seedlings you might be _lucky_ e.g. to find a single N. lowii x tentaculata hybrid but such hybrids which span that much of a distance within the genus usually are poor growers and rare occurencies. Mostly lowland populations with several "weedy" sp. like N. mirabilis, alata, rafflesiana...which are closer related are in danger of "hybrid- contamination" and if seeds were collected from a population where many hybrid plants were found I completely agree with you that one should be careful. Furthermore such hybrids often benefit from heterosis which makes them even more weedy than the parents. In contrast I d regard seeds from most highland populations as quite safe. And - If somebody "accidently" gets a N. lowii x tentaculata hybrid originating from the single grain of seed - oh, what a luck!!! Such hybrids are so much rarer than the species in the wild...and most suppliers -I m sure- would love to change this plant for the sp... > BUT that is when they gear up to do > thousands of each variety... In case of let s say N. villosa it took me almost 4 years of screening to develop a propagation-system. Now I have doubling times of maybe 6-8 months. If I would count the time I ve invested in many of the slow growing highland species I could not sell them at all because I would have to ask _really_ astronomical sums. But luckily for most of the suppliers the main reason to grow in-vitro stuff is simply passion and love to the plants. Compare the prices of rarer orchids which in fact can be very expensive with prices for rare Nepenthes and you ll see that Nepenthes are not at all overpriced. The opposite is true: Since there are quite a few people who try to sell a few of their in vitro offsprings Nepenthes prices have dropped rapidly. Think of a former really commercial source for Nepenthes which once sent plants to all over the world from Brunei. The plants were all taken from the wild and sold as soon as possible after collecting. Yes I mean R. Cantleys plants... . Such a business against all CITES-laws by people who would grab the last plant of a nerly extinct sp. from the wild in order to get the best price simply cannot exist anymore thanks to tissue culture techniques. Joachim, Heiko and I ve seen several populations of Nepenthes where we would feel that tissue culture is the only chance to save at least an image of the plant which will be extinct in 5 or ten years. Everybody who travelled in Asia and left bigger cities to see the forest must be shocked by the rapid destruction of rainforest by logging, burning and a fatal climatic shift which very likely is caused by the first two facts. Extreme drought-periods cause big fires which destroy whole regions and endemic species in this regions. Only to re-estimate...: N. campanulata is extinct! -because the whole region where this highly endemic species was growing is dead due to huge fires. N. clipeata is almost extinct! -because large parts of G. Kelam are burnt. It s just a matter of time...:-( As the frequent fires are a cause of a shift in the rain-dry season periods more to a drier year I see little chance for many of the endemic species to survive the next 10 or 20 years. As we are currently destroying our planet maybe we should at least try to keep such images for coming generations in order to show what once existed... ...seed of the species mentioned above should have been brought before it was too late...:-( > to fund direct operating expenses, but I > imagine that a good part goes to cover past and > future seed hunts. I m wondering why you discuss your _imaginations_ _about_ _people_ _you_ _do_ _not_ _really_ _know_ in the public... I in contrast _thought_ that you _exactly_ _know_ prices for laminar-flow- hoods, autoclaves, balances, ... and so on but maybe I m wrong ;-]. All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ################### From: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 06 Jan 1995 12:27:00 +0200 Subject: Re: (re)Introduction Dear Michael, you wrote: > Please be refered to the