################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Email Mujahideen) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 92 13:52:19 PST Subject: CP stuff I was on vacation last week, so I went up to UC Santa Cruz to try and spy my old collection. Sadly, I got within one locked door of getting in. The person in charge of the greenhouses was on vacation so they locked the door to the roof :-(. However, I stopped by the arboretum at the base of campus and tried to find their few CP. I just found one, a large and bushy Nepenthes alata which had no good pitchers on it. I think it was underwatered. They seemed to be growing it in either pumice, or heavy perlite. Lack of humidity or sun could also be the problem. I'm going to make another attempt to get to the greenhouses in the next few weeks. On other fronts, Scott Brown, I, and his father got together for a pilgrimage to California Carnivores. Sadly the collection was about half or more dormant, so it wasn't as visually exciting, but I enjoyed it a lot. The tuberosities were coming up, and some of them were quite interesting. Peters' D. gigantea was dormant, it still is off sync, but supposedly its' tuber is about the size of a walnut. It was nice to meet someone from the list in person! Scott, I'm sorry you didn't get down to see my collection, but it should be growing more the next time you get in town anyhow. Friday I cleaned out my terrarium of the moss and scunge growing in the bottom, and it looks much nicer now. When I get paid next week I'm going to buy some lights and setup a propagating chamber here at work :-). I think I'll use the Crystal Lite indoor greenhouse my mom gave me for the growing chamber, and I'll use a PVC frame to support 2, 2 tube 2' flourescent fixtures overhead. (Don, do you still have those 2 extra 2' grow bulbs?). While cleaning the terrarium I noted the following: - my Nepenthes seed is still germinating, while some seedlings are looking pretty big. The dead, milled, spaghnum I planted them in has sprouted so I sat around for half an hour with little scissors lawn-mowing the moss so the seedlings could get some light. Do people transplant seedlings, or do you wait until they're non-seedlings before transplanting? What do you transplant them to? - I found 3 unidentified rosetted droseras, which I've put in the same pot together. They look like rotundifolia, but I have no idea how I got them. They are small, each only having 4 leaves. - I found (GASP!) scale on my N. khasiana leaf cutting which Mike sent me ages ago, which still hasn't struck. I swabbed some head cleaner (alcohol) on the things, then bagged it up in a baggie and put it back in my terrarium. So far I don't see any scale on my other plants. Here's hoping. - The D. adelae root cuttings Barry sent me a while ago have filled the small pot with plants. Barry, are these the red or white flowered variety? - The U. sandersonii in my D. collinsae pot are growing out of the bottom drainage holes. However, maybe the drosera realized its' peril, for it's now sending up some new leaves. - I have 3 new leaf bud plantlets growing in my D. prolifera pot. However I've yet to observe the plant-on-flower-stalk which this species is supposed to show. I'm leaving the stalk on anyhow. Question of the day: if I take a 4 node meristem cutting off my Nepenthes boissense, how many nodes do I bury in the rooting medium, and do I cut half of *all* the leaves off? Is it wise to use vermiculite for rooting, or should I stick with live moss? That's all for now, Robert ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Email Mujahideen) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 92 10:07:36 PST Subject: Name this nepenthes. The name was something like "manyie". The pitchers were shaped like champagne glasses, much like N. lowii, and the lids were much smaller than the open mouth of the pitcher. Peter D'Amato had one, and I forgot to ask him about it. It looks cool, and would go far in cooling my desire for N. lowii. r. ################### From: Scott Brown Date: Tue, 7 Jan 92 14:31:19 EST XSubject: Re: Name this nepenthes. I was reading through the latest issue of CPN last night and saw a letter (from Peter D'Amato ?) regarding a viscous secretion on one of his utric's. flower scapes. He said it had actually killed several small bugs and was wondering if anybody else had seen this in their plants. Well have any of you? This seem strange to me-- kind of like evolution occurring before his eyes. Over Christmas break, my father, Robert Allen and I took a trip to Calif. Carnivores. One of the few non CPs that he had was called a telegraph plant. This had small appendeges (1/2 inch long cylindrical) just below each leaf that he said would rotate around in circles (like the hands of a clock) in bright sunlight. He said the period was something like 30 seconds to a minute. It was overcast so I did not get to see this plant in action. Has anybody ever heard of such a plant or have any idea of how or why it would behave this way? Scott ################### From: mjc Date: Wed, 08 Jan 92 17:54:58 MST Subject: new address Well, I found my apartment. My new address will be 4530 E. McDowell RD. #288 Phoenix AZ 85008 Name is: Michael Chamberland The place has a fairly large balcony facing east south-east. It also has an average sized window in the same direction. I should be able to grow a good number of CP outside on the balcony year-round, but the space must be shared with my cactus collection. My orchid collection will probably get the inside window. I pay my own utilities so I don't expect to do much growing under lights: it gets too hot. I will probably grow all/most of my Nepenthes indoors under lights, as they can take the high heat indoors (and not the winter cold outdoors). I have already donated most of my larger Drosera (capensis, binata, adelae, etc.) to the Desert Bot Garden where they are being used in the propaga tion greenhouse for whitefly/fungnat control. I will probably give them most of my pings too, as these work like yellow pest strips in catching whitefly. The greenhouse is all airconditioned, has lots of space, and is great for CP. (I can always get leaf cuttings and start over with these plants if I want ;-) On my balcony I will make an attempt to keep up a collection of pygmies, AZ time-zone-converted tuberous, and a few niceties like Drosophyllum, Cephalotus etc. Indoors I think I can still keep a decent Nepenthes collection. The apartment is a one-bedroom; in bicycling range of the Des. Bot Gar. I will be in by Feb. MJC ################### From: dngess01 (Don) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 92 00:45:08 -0500 XSubject: Re: new address Does Allen Lowrie sell any Nepenthes seeds? There was talk about pooling together to get plants from Allen Lowrie. I wouldn't mind buying a D. falconerii or some S. African Drosera seeds like D. hilaris, or D. madagascariensis, or D. regia if anyone is interested. What is the best way to produce a "marl soil" to grow D. linearis? I woke up in the middle of the night a few days ago and turned on the TV. I started to watch an old 1935 horror movie called "Mad Love" on TNT. It was a horror movie starring Peter Lorre, who played a mad doctor that kills a bunch of people. On his desk, he had a Darlingtonia californica that looked to be in good shape! Winter is about half-way through. Took a peek at my Sarracenia and temperate Drosera outside and they seem to be in good health. It only snowed once so far this winter. I finally got the 1985 issues of CPN a few days ago and now have a complete set of CPN! There is a photo of a guy holding a HUGE pitcher of N. merrilliana in one of the issues. Brocchinia reducta is a carnivorous bromeliad that grows near Heliamphora sites. They look like yellow tubes, maybe a foot tall. ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Email Mujahideen) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 92 12:36:25 PST XSubject: Re: new address >>Does Allen Lowrie sell any Nepenthes seeds? There was talk about pooling >>together to get plants from Allen Lowrie. I wouldn't mind buying >>a D. falconerii or some S. African Drosera seeds like D. hilaris, or >>D. madagascariensis, or D. regia if anyone is interested. He does sell seed. As I recall it's $3.00 a packet. Let me look at the list and get back to you. There are a number of nepenthes seed listings. >> >>I finally got the 1985 issues of CPN a few days ago and now have a complete >>set of CPN! There is a photo of a guy holding a HUGE pitcher of N. >>merrilliana in one of the issues. Have you been subscribing "since when", or did you buy the back issues cheap? What they should do is come out with a bound edition of back issues. r. ################### From: ATLAS@JHUVMS.HCF.JHU.EDU Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1992 20:41 EST Subject: Backs, terraria, bugs I agree with Rob, they should sell back issues of CPN bounded and cheap. I bought the 84-89 backs, unbounded, and not very cheap ($72.50 I think). I don't know what plants to recommend you grow in your office, Rob...My terrarium has only one little 10 or 15 w bulb, and I grow all different species in it, but (importantly), the terrarium is in front of a window, so it gets a lot of natural light. BTW, if anyone considers putting a terrarium in front of a window, remember to "crack" the lid (i.e. leave open a cm), or the greenhouse effect will fry your plants. garding bugs, chances are, the gnats' eggs are in your plants' media, so they will probably crop up in your new terrarium, too. I remember an old CPN article talked about buying and breeding fruit flies as CP fodder, but that seems like too much work to me. But maybe worth considering. Plus, you can do genetic research as you raise food for your plants! doug ################### From: dngess01 (Don) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 92 22:19:40 -0500 XSubject: Re: Backs, terraria, bugs I started my first subscription with Vol. 4 or 5 sometime in the mid-70's when the CP book by Randall Schwartz mentioned the CPN newsletter. I let my subscription lapse several years ago, then re-subscribed and bought all the issues I missed last year about a month before the last issue of last year came out announcing the $5 or so increase per year for buying back issues. My D. glanduligera don't look too happy growing under flourescent lights. Same with the most of the pygmies. Hope they can hang on until it warms up and I can take them outside. Someone mentioned the indoor greenhouse advertised in the Orchids by Hausermann catalog. The cost is $300+. I got mine from Indoor Gardening Supplies, (write for a catalog to P.O. Box 40567, Detroit, MI 48240). Mine was a slightly scratched 3-tier model, with trays for $90. A plastic covering was $35 extra. My cover is still being used, but is fairly ratty looking with algae growing over a good part of it. I take it outside once a year for a good scrubbing, but the algae grows back soon afterward. Regarding food for CP, rotting fruit will attract lots of fruit flies. A couple overripe grapes should allow fruit flies to grow and multiply in a terrarium for a few weeks if you take precautions against fungus - keep the air moving and don't allow the fruit to get too soggy. ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Email Mujahideen) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 92 11:25:12 PST Subject: stuff >>I found a source for saucers in 12", 14", and 16" sizes. Catalogs are >>free from the Light Mfg. Co. at 1-800-669-5483. Are these hard to find? Out here I can get the transparent plant saucers in any of a half dozen sizes, and a couple of depths, at local grocery stores. >> >> >>Someone mentioned the indoor greenhouse advertised in the Orchids by >>Hausermann catalog. The cost is $300+. I got mine from Indoor >>Gardening Supplies, (write for a catalog to P.O. Box 40567, Detroit, >>MI 48240). Mine was a slightly scratched 3-tier model, with trays for >>$90. A plastic covering was $35 extra. My cover is still being used, >>but is fairly ratty looking with algae growing over a good part of it. >>I take it outside once a year for a good scrubbing, but the algae >>grows back soon afterward. You might try using replaceable poly, with plastic tape. I build a PVC greenhouse (the infamous $29.00 greenhouse) covered with this stuff and it did real good. >> >>Regarding food for CP, rotting fruit will attract lots of fruit flies. A >>couple overripe grapes should allow fruit flies to grow and multiply in a >>terrarium for a few weeks if you take precautions against fungus - keep the >>air moving and don't allow the fruit to get too soggy. Good point. I forgot "Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana." ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Email Mujahideen) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 92 11:33:36 PST Subject: Lowrie order info. >Does Allen Lowrie sell any Nepenthes seeds? The following Nepenthes seed are listed: fusca COLLECTION #1 fusca COLLECTION #2 khasiana lowii 5 forms of mirabilis x mixta x maxima rafflesiana Kota Kinabalu vieillardii (2 forms) Of the drosera seed you mention, only regia is listed. Regarding the petiolaris species, they are $28.00 per species, which gets 4 plants. Orders must be placed by the end of January, at which time the orders will be filled all at once. Available are: Drosera petiolaris, dilatato-pet. falconeri lanata pet. "mini rosette" pet. "med. rosette" pet. "kununurra" I might be interested in splitting an order of falconeri, but I'm wondering what lanata is like. Robert ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Email Mujahideen) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 92 12:07:31 PST Subject: Re: Lowrie order info. I think I'll have to backoff on ordering petiolaris plants. My order is already upto $34.00 and this is the dreaded post-Xmas month. I'm ordering the following: D. gigantea tuber - $10.00 D. macrophylla tuber - $6.50 D. zonaria tuber - $4.00 D. regia seed - $3.00 N. lowii seed - $3.00 If anyone wants to order seed/tubers, let me know and I can include you in my order if you want. Given that shipping is $7.50 for tubers and seed, this can save you a bit. Robert ################### From: dngess01 (Don) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 92 22:17:12 -0500 Subject: CP talk }>>I found a source for saucers in 12", 14", and 16" sizes. Catalogs are }>>free from the Light Mfg. Co. at 1-800-669-5483. } Are these hard to find? Out here I can get the transparent } plant saucers in any of a half dozen sizes, and a couple of } depths, at local grocery stores. Around here, groceries sell very little plant equipment. Maybe some bags of top soil or grass seed during the warm time of the year, but that's about it. Even so-called garden centers don't have a very extensive selection. These usually have <20% actually useful stuff, and the rest is usually stuff like arts and craft items or plasic flamingos or some such. But, I have just found a good local source for plant saucers/trays. These are 11" square plastic trays, with planting inserts, and a clear plastic dome for $1 each. Looks like 10" will be the pot size of preference this year. They also have 19 gallon heavy plastic storage containers for $5. These make great sarracenia growing containers. } You might try using replaceable poly, with plastic tape. I build } a PVC greenhouse (the infamous $29.00 greenhouse) covered with this } stuff and it did real good. I'll probably get an outdoor greenhouse one of these days. I doubt if I can economically heat an outdoor greenhouse covered in plastic sheeting. My plants don't mind the crud on the old plastic covering and it's not in a place where a lot of people would see it, so I don't have a real need for replacing it at this time. > I might be interested in splitting an order of falconeri, but > I'm wondering what lanata is like. There is a line-drawing by Allen Lowrie of D. lanata in a 1990 CPN. Leaves are about the same length as D. petiolaris, but has thin petioles. Look like maybe a giant D. pygmaea, or a D. anglica that somebody stomped flat. ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Email Mujahideen) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 92 11:13:52 PST Subject: Tuberosity questions. Having violated the first fule of CP: never buy something you don't know how to grow, I'm looking for the dos/don'ts of growing the following species: D. gigantea, D. macrophylla, D. zonaria. All are of course tuberosities, and barring any negative comments I figure I'll pot them up in sandy peat mixtures, with maybe some perlite added. However, PoP says zonaria grows "always in deep white sand, typical of the coastal plain." Has anyone grown CP in straight sand? If so, what is the water table you keep? How did it work out? Re: my work plants. I've added D. x nagamoto, P. agnata, and D. coccicaulis. I'm hoping these tropical type plants will get more active than they've been outside in the cooler weather. I've moved D. aliciae and D. capensis "red" into my home terrarium to get them perked up. Tomorrow I'll bring in some D. auriculata seedlings to work. Waaaay cool. r. ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 92 13:21:41 MST XSubject: Re: Tuberosity questions. >(If gemmae is plural, what is the singular form? Gemma?) Yep. >- The D. adelae root cuttings Barry sent me a while ago have filled > the small pot with plants. Barry, are these the red or white > flowered variety? Red. I have some seedling plants called "green" but I don't know yet if that refers to the leaves or flowers. >I had a D. collinsae finish flowering about a month ago. When I inspected >the old flower stalk, I couldn't find a single seed anywhere. Mine produce seed copiously, but only in the greenhouse. >I was reading through the latest issue of CPN last night and >saw a letter (from Peter D'Amato ?) regarding a viscous secretion >on one of his utric's. flower scapes. He said it had actually >killed several small bugs and was wondering if anybody else >had seen this in their plants. Yeah I see these a lot on the chasmogamous flowers. The goo has a slight bitter flavour to it. >Over Christmas break, my father, Robert Allen and I took a trip to >Calif. Carnivores. One of the few non CPs that he had was called >telegraph plant. >was overcast so I did not get to see this plant in action. Has >anybody ever heard of such a plant or have any idea of how or why >it would behave this way? Also known as Desmodium motorum, not to be confused with the southwestern weed of the same common name. Well guys, I'm back from a little excursion to Jalisco State, Mexico. Mostly in the area of Puerto Vallarta but we also made many excursions into the mountains. My brother is a botanist, and so we had quite an enjoyable time together. We saw a lot of interesting things---zillions of epiphytic orchids and bromeliads/tillandsias, ground bromeliads, unusual agaves and tropical cacti, including some cacti that were exclusively epiphytic! Plenty of other interesting plants, but no CP. Saw Dodder for the first time, although I gather it's a common enough parasite. Also when we were walking I saw some of the characteristic flowers of a Mimosa. When I touched it, sure enough its leaves closed up and all. It was clearly the good old Sensitive Plant, but it looked a lot different from the Mimosa pudica I grew when I was a tyke. Much spinier. I wonder if its a different strain or even species? Also enjoyed snorkeling and boning up on my spanish. During one of our hikes in the mountains we found ourselves surrounded by streams of army ants---we avoided most bites by bravely RUNNING AWAY!! Well during the next few days I'll be hurriedly writing class syllabi etc for my classes which have already begun, but on the whole I'm back. The CP collection survived my absense well, and I'm getting some germinations in some of my other Tuberous Drosera. Also got some shipments of plants. Anyone have first hand experience with D. arcturi or stenopetala? Germination also in my U. nova-zelandiae and Sarr. hybrids. OK, looks like I've missed most of the petiolaris ordering action, but is there any chance I can get in on some D. falconeri or D. lanata? I'm interested in getting two plants of each. Anyone? BAMR ################### From: XKU@CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu Date: Thu, 16 Jan 92 18:52:49 EST Subject: Longwood Well, I'm back from break. Had a good time while I was home. I met up with Rolfe Smith in Longwood Gardens. He showed me around the place a little then took me back to see his Nepenthes. He had some good stuff: hirsuita, ampullaria ,truncata, maxima, khasiana, and several forms of alata to name a few. It seems that Longwood is going to add another tropical room onto the greenhouse I think that he told me that the room will be suitable for growing Heliamphora, Darlintonia, and the higher elevation Nepens. So he's going to be on the lookout for them pretty soon. He also told me that he might be getting his computer hooked up to a modem soon, so I gave him my Bitnet address. Getting late guys, Davin ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Email Mujahideen) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 92 21:36:09 PST Subject: Re: VFT potting media >>I just bought a couple of VFTs that came in 3" pots >>with pure ground peat. Slack recommends repotting >>VFTs into larger pots which I will do soon. What >>is the best medium to use? If I remember correctly >>Slack says a peat/sand mix. I don't have any sand >>at the moment but could go buy some if it is what >>I should use. I would rather not get into buying >>a 20 pound bag since I almost never use it, so I was >>thinking of "borrowing" a >>little from a local construction sight. Are there >>any foreseeable problems with this (other than getting >>my butt kicked by the foreman)? Of course I would >>run lots of fresh water through the sand to leach out >>any salts. As for pots, are shallow pots preferred to >>deep ones or vice versa? Ahhh, a subject I have experience in... First, what not to do: what got me into the hobby again last year was buying some Dionea. I had forotten about soil mixtures, but I remembered peat. So, I bought a nice terra cotta planter about 5-6" deep, filled it with peat, and planted my flytraps. Although they did ok, they weren't real vigorous. Then they got dug up by bluejays. While replanting them I noticed the peat was dryer than I expected, warm, and, well, it felt dense. I wouldn't want to be planted in it. So, I dug up Schnells book, bought a bag of sand, and made a 50/50 peat/sand mix. I planted the plants, and put a layer of longrain live (you could use dried) spahgnum over the top to keep the moisture in. Plants were MUCH happier with that. I currently have my plants in an "American CP" planter. It's an undrained plastic window box about 2' long, 6" wide, and 6" deep. There's about an inch of pea gravel in the bottom, about 5" of peat sand, and some live moss on top. My flytraps were real happy in that when they were active, and now that they're dormant they're still happy. I also have a S. rubra, D. intermedia, and Barrys mystery pings in this planter. In one corner I have a small, drained, 2" pot buried (like you saw in the Ceph tray at C.C. Scott) so I can know the water level in the planter. Check local chain stores and garden stores. You can usually find 1-3 lb. sacks of sand next to the African violet mix, perlite, etc. In replanting my flytraps I noticed they had roots going a good 4" or so. A window box type depth is probably ideal. They're not fussy though. Give them 4-6". If you give them less, I'd be careful about watering because I don't think they like having their roots sitting in water. BTW, using pea gravel as drainage makes the pots damned heavy. Using sand in your soil mixes is almost as bad. Peter D'Amato uses peat/perlite for the mixes he sells his plants in because it weighs less. However, you get a different kind of mix. For lack of a better word, the perlite mix is fluffier, while the sand mix is well drained, but closely packed. I prefer sand, but it is really heavy, which is in issue if you have a lot of plants, or big pots. If you use perlite definately use life moss on top, and maybe on bottom, to keep in moisture. Robert ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Email Mujahideen) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 92 22:04:33 PST Subject: New CP society: review. I'm now a member of the Bay Area CP Society. I just got vol 1, #1 of the 8 page newsletter. No dues: you just have to show up for the meetings. Carl Wong is the president, Chuck Powell is the VP, Joe Mazrimas is the treasurer, and Geoff Wong [just down the street] is the editor. The charter meeting is Feb. 22nd, 12-3'ish pm, which will feature a display and sale, meeting, raffle and auction. Meetings and newletter are scheduled 4 per year. For '92, Feb 22, May 16, Aug 9, and Nov 14. Items: CP will be on display at the Concord Garden Show, last weekend of April. Volunteers needed. Conservatory in Golden Gate Park [a large glasshouse which is a scale "miniature" of the Kew Garden (as I recall) conservatory. It has a couple of BIG, OLD, Nepenthes plants in the hot rooms. They're probably about 20+ years old.] plans to establish a CP collection [They've been selling Gubler CP in the giftshop some- times]. They are looking for donations, which are tax deduct- ible [I don't know if this means plants or money, or both.] Contac Chris Hewitt at the Conservatory, Golden Gate Park, San Francisco, CA 94117, or call at 415-666-7017 between 7:30am and 3:30pm. One of the BACPS members, Hawkeye Rondeau, has just published a book on native CA CP. He describes all the native species and where they may be found. [I've met this guy, and he doesn't field collect CP. He's a character, reminds me of Grizzly Adams, or a Harley rider]. "Carnivorous Plants of California" is available from him at 37 Sunnyslope Ave, San Jose, CA 95127. 408-929-6529. 45 pages, 7 color plates, $15.95 + postage. He's also got a want ad looking for the location of more native CP sites. Will purchase @ $1.00 pg., or swap for equal portions of his database on CA, OR, and WA distributions. The newsletter will take submissions for the next issue if given by March 1. Shall I mention our little newsgroup here in case anyone else has net access? Robert ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Email Mujahideen) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 92 23:14:56 PST Subject: stuf I spent about 7 hours today at Chuck Powells helping to install a thermostat, fan, and wiring. Lots of work, but I learned some new things. I also got a few plants in payment. Among them, a seedling D. petiolaris :-). Yay. I saw all the plants of the petiolaris complex in one place, although most of them were dormant. falconeri is the only one which looks radically different. Chuck still swears that he's heard the halfs of the leaves close on prey, but he's never seen it. Another guy was helping to do the installation, and he may have network access. If it's ok, and if he does have net access, he's interested in joining this group. David seems like a nice guy, and he currently only has 4 (now about 14) plants. that's all for now, r. ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Email Mujahideen) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 92 21:39:45 PST Subject: re-potted today. I spent all day repotting. I transplanted my Nepenthes seedlings from the 6 packs I germinated them in (big mistake) to a pot w/ peat/sand/perlite. I think they'll survive though since my indoor setup is warm and very humid. I transplanted a few of the plants I got from Chuck Powell into larger pots. I'm of the "bigger is better" potting school, and sure enough, the D. natalensis I got had a root hitting the bottom of the small pot it came in. I also re-potted some of my plants into larger, square, pots, which fit nicely into the water trays I have. I hope they survive, but since I'm VERY fast and careful when repotting, I think they will. I love my plants. I "discovered" a neat way of quickly re-potting. Take the new, larger pot, put some soil init, then put the smaller pot into it, on top of the soil, so the level of the tops of the pot are equal. Fill in the space between the pot walls with soil, tamp it a bit, then remove the inner pot. Quickly dump the potted plant and soil out, drop it into the hole in the soil in the larger pot (just vacated by the smaller pot), and it should fit almost exactly. Cool... I got a really cool "pot" at a local garden store. It's a molded plastic terra cotta coloured square pot, about 12" square, with a removeable drain plug at the bottom, and 4 molded in feet at the bottom corners. I filled it with 2" of washed pea gravel for drainage, then about 10" of peat/sand, then 2" of live moss as top dressing. In one corner I sunk a styrafoam cup w/ a hole in the bottom into the soil, level w/ the top of the peat/sand. I covered the top w/ some wire mesh I had lying around, then put moss over that. Now I have a concealed cup in the soil, with which I can check the water level in the undrained container. If I could just figure out how to make little pungi pits to take out the birds and squirrels I'd be all set. Anyhow, this potted plant will look really nice when the S. leuc. comes up in spring. It will have plenty of root room, should get big, and it's heavy enough no ones going to walk off with it easily. I may get a couple more to do the other Sarracenias I have. The pot was only $6.99. I also potted up a S. flava in a 12" diameter round pot, with a layer of clear polyethelyne inside to create an undrained pot. This too got the cup in the soil treatment. I hope they don't have problems with the re-potting. But they needed it. The roots were already to the bottom of the 6"/155mm pot they were in. Now I also have more room in my table-top greenhouse too. While re-potting I found a slug, and an earthworm. Both made good food for my Nepenthes :-). Our wiring job at Chuck Powells seems to have some problems: it trips the breaker every time it's used. Next Saturday I'm going back to check it out. BTW, there's apparently a bog in Albion (up north?) that has a decent stand of planted sarracenias. Chuck Powell and Peter D'Amato are going there tomorrow: if I didn't have an appt. I can't get out of I'd have gone too... BTW, if anyone's familiar with greenhouse thermostats which have 3 wiring terminals, one set of 2 for heating and the other set of 2 for cooling, I'd like to hear from you. I'm wondering if we wired up the thermostat incorrectly and that's what's causing the problem. My terrarium at work is now full up. But there's still more space in my office.... ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 92 20:14:54 MST XSubject: Re: re-potted today. >Hey! (he says using his time honored saying) How tough can it be? >Well, uh, hopefully not too tough. So, what should I plant them >in? Should I take leaf cuttings immediately, or wait until they >come out of dormancy? Enquiring minds want to know. I'm no genius w.r.t. petiolaris plants, having successfully killed my falconeri from last year, but here's basic advice: Don't mess with your mother stock. If you have just one plant, nurse it to health. Sure, if any pieces break off accidentally---plant them up, but otherwise let the plant go its own course. I don't know if a plant regressing back into dormancy extracts some valuable chemical reserves from its dying leaves, but it might. Once you have a sturdy, healthy plant, then start propagating. This advice is of course modified if you KNOW the mother plant is going to die for some reason ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 92 12:52:59 PST Subject: Re: Hello fellow carnivore enthusiasts, >>A little over a year ago, I was up at the Nut Tree restaraunt in >>Vacaville, and purchased a tissue-cultured VFT from "Vesutor >>Micro-Plants". This plant re-sparked my interest, and I'm proud >>to say that the little bugger is still doing great! I'm impressed. Someone gave me one of those and it died after transplanting. I don't think I got all of the agar off. The Tree Farm on El Camino near San Antonio has a couple of racks of VFTs in tubes, as well as some orchids in tubes. The display mentions sundews and sarracenias, but I didn't seen any in the box. >> >>I have been toying with the idea of building a small outdoor greenhouse, >>say 6'x8'. I think it would be much better for the plants, especially >>the S. leucophylla and D. muscipula. Unfortunately, my local squirrel >>population makes the growth of unprotected outdoor plants a risky >>proposition. The critters are always digging about trying to find or >>hide nuts. I would appreciate hearing about any experience that anyone >>has in building and operating such greenhouses. Heh heh, let me tell you about squirrels.... If you know Geoff Wong, you know he has his outdoor plants under screenwire. I live just down the street, and have the same. My girlfriend lives in Mountain View, and does the same. A few hints. a) save the hair from your showers and sprinkle it in your pots, this is supposed to keep squirrels away. So far it's been working for me, but we'll see how it does when spring comes. b) the bluejays are worse than the squirrels. c) a topdressing of live, wet, soggy, spahgnum seems to deter squirrels (but not bluejays) as they don't like either the taste, feeling, or smell of it. d) squirrels LOVE to eat butterwort leaves. Don't ask.... If you haven't been to the Junior museum lately, go check out the new outdoor setup. A week or two ago there were no plants in it, but basically they've construted a 3' X 6' X 4' (approx.) wire and plastic covered case to protect the plants. >> >>My most successful plant has been D. capensis. They grow so well >>that they are almost weedy. I have raised about 20 mature plants from >>seed and have given away many of them to friends who have shown interest >>in CPs. Capensis a is a great plant. Hardy, easy to reproduce, and it looks neat. Also catches a lot of bugs. I saw a capensis and D. binata multifida in the window of an ice cream shop up at Fishermans Wharf in SF. ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 92 19:49:28 PST Subject: Trip to California Carnivores. I and my squeeze braved (and I do mean BRAVED) the winter storms and drove up to see Peter D'Amatos business today. Since the plants are starting to come up this visit was slightly more exciting than the winter trip Scott and I took. Scott, Peter has moved his home greenhouse into the big greenhouse, in the back-middle where he used to have a bunch of plants on racks. Inside he's put all his lowland nepenthes and other warm-loving plants. It's pretty nice. And now the area at the edge of the greenhouse which used to have the hot-area is totally clear; soon to be filled. He's hung up about a dozen or more potted D. binata multifidas overhead. And finally, he's reroofed the big greenhouse with fiberglass panels. The whole place seems a lot roomier and nicer now, and should be great when spring comes. Lots of his tuberous collection was up, and it looked very nice. I hope my tubers look half as nice. I saw something which I'd never heard about; the details of how new tubers form from undergound stolons. One of the tuberosities had put out lateral stolons ABOVE ground. It looked very alien. I bought a couple of plants for my planned bog garden, and more importantly, 2 years worth of back issues of CPN for $10.00 per year. There is a box of unused back issues which Peter is selling for CPN. I may buy more if I can afford it. I got the issue on D. petiolaris complex, which has lots of good stuff, and an issue about photographing your CP by a buy named Barry Meyers-Rice. I noted also a Mr. Maharaj with a want ad, and a mention of this group when it was only 3-4 people. Should I announce it at the BACPS meeting next week? Davin, I checked out Peters indoor bog garden. What he has is a rectangular setup on a table, with about 8" high wooden edges, plastic lined. In the back are some tall Sarracenia species, and in the front are VFTs, and some low sarracenia. Several little hillocks about 2-3" above the soil level were heavily planted with rosetted drosera and pygmies. The media seemed to be peat/perlite, with some live moss here and there. It looked nice. Tomorrow I go shopping for some plastic tubs. Robert ################### From: Scott Brown Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 21:26:43 EST XSubject: Re: Trip to California Carnivores. > Strange. Many of my Sarracenia are showing signs of awakening for the > season (flower stalks appearing and new roots growing) and it's only Two of my Sarracenia's started awakening a couple of weeks ago and are growing quickly. Since this is my first winter growing these, I have no past experience to compare with. Hey, I'm just happy they didn't die in their sleep. I have been quiet lately because I have been trying to finish my thesis. I should have it turned in within a few days and then I can get back to the CP that I have been neglecting lately. I have lots of Drosera seedlings that need transplanting. Michael gave me some seeds when I visited ASU last May and I now have good sized plants from almost all of them. I did not have the patience to refrigerate them as I had read somewhere so I am especially glad that they germinated. They have spent their brief life in a plastic tray with one of those clear dome covers. The whole thing is under fluorescent lights and is very low maintanence. I had a little trouble with fungus early on but managed to clear that up with some benomyl. Before transplanting them into pots, I think I will gradually remove the dome so as not to give them ``humidity shock". I have had some friends express interest so I will give many of them away. If anybody is interested in some of these, I will post a list of what I have extras of (probably mostly common stuff). Speaking of seeds, I have been surprised at how fast the drosera have matured. How long do other CP take to mature (from germination to flowering sized plants)? I recently heard sombody say that the local orchids here in NJ (slipper orchids) can take 8--12 years from seed to flower. No wonder you don't see people hybridizing these. How would you like to make a hybrid, nurture it for 11 years and then get hit by a truck before the flower opens. But enough about my phobias. Plants are growing well in general, U. sandersonii is in continuous flower and overgrowing the pots. Does this plant ever not have flowers? I'm very proud that I have had some live sphagnum growing for quite a while now. It seems that my plants have greatly appreciated my new, and improved light setup. Rick, welcome to the group from a fellow bay arean. I grew up in Burlingame and am in NJ for grad school. Don't know when I will return to Calif. I guess that depends on who wants to hire me. Robert, you mentioned buying some Dionae. Shortly after I saw you in December, I bought a couple of Dionae at Orchard Supply hardware in Millbrae. They were largest ones I have seen for sale (at a reasonable price) and seemed in good shape. You might want to check a local Orchard Supply before buying any. Scott ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) Date: Sun, 16 Feb 92 23:13:54 PST Subject: Re: bog garden plans >>I just bought a large terra-cotta colored plastic pot from the "Tree-Farm" >>nursery on El Camino. It's on the west side of the street a couple >>blocks before San Antonio Avenue in Palo Alto. >> >>These are the same containers that I have seen Peter D'Amato using for >>his bog gardens. They are about 12" high, and about 50" in diameter. >>The whole thing is sort of "Wok" shaped with a rim. There is a drain >>hole in the bottom which comes with a rubber stopper. This should be >>convenient for periodically flushing out salt build-up. I've looked at these, but the problem with them is that the deeper rooted plants must go near the center, and only shallow rooted plants can go around the edge. However, the Acro-Mills plastic window boxes are GREAT for mass plantings. BTW, Tree Farm is an OK place, but some of their prices are a bit high. Woolworths garden center on the corner of Middlefield and San Antonio has the same stuff, plus some neat square plastic planters. I prefer square containers because they are easier to situate up near a fence, etc. Rounde ones are harder to make optimal use of space with (which is why I prefer square pots). I currently have one undrained window box with Dionea, D. intermedia, S. rubra, S. psittacina, and some pings, and another with some Aussie CP, and they've worked well, particularly with a small pot buried in the soil to keep an eye on water level. Next weekend I hope to pick up some cheap sundews or butterwords (N. American species) for my mass planting. >>I also bought a regular terra-cotta pot to upend and use as a base >>for the bog planter. I'm hoping it will discourage the ninja squirrels >>from jumping up and partying.... Don't bet on it. You may well have to resort to a chicken wire cage. Also, try human hair. And don't forget, the bluejays can be worse than the squirrels. BTW, I was just at Tower Video and found a VHS tape (the last one as far as I could see) of Death Trap, the CP video by PBS. I just watched it and it has some beautiful footage of VFTs, aldrovanda, utrics, and drosera. I had forgotten how FAST utric traps work. Amazing. My appreciation for utrics is renewed. I need to get an American Terrestrial species for my bog garden... r. ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 92 16:28:16 MST XSubject: Re: bog garden plans Hey: You might be interested to know that D. `Esperance' has been described as D. seargentii. > D. petiolaris complex, which has lots of good stuff, and an issue > about photographing your CP by a buy named Barry Meyers-Rice. I *** (and my wife says I was a bargain) > noted also a Mr. Maharaj with a want ad, and a mention of this > group when it was only 3-4 people. Should I announce it at the > BACPS meeting next week? Sure! Why not? Strange. Many of my Sarracenia are showing signs of awakening for the season (flower stalks appearing and new roots growing) and it's only mid February. This is about 2---4 weeks early for me. Those I promised Sarrs to should expect them in the mail in about 2 or three weeks, unless you want to risk shocking them with an earlier awakening. My seeds from last year's crosses are starting to germinate too. Funny how the mature plants and the seedlings both wake up at the same time. Also my North American Pings are starting to flower. I'm getting scapes on my pumila forms, ionantha, planifolia, caerulea, and primuliflora. Zillions of chasmogamous U. subulata scapes coming up in my Sarr pots too. Ah, spring! OK, here's a good project for everyone. There are some who say that viable crosses exist between such widely separated plants as D. rotundifolia and D. capensis, and also between D. capensis and D. aliciae. This is not so impossible as it may first seem, since D. spatulata can cross with D. anglica (hence D. X `Nagamoto' and D. X `Watari'), and many crosses exist amoung the various U.S. species (rotundifolia X intermedia, intermedia X filiformis, etc). Anyone interested in trying this? I'm certainly going to try the D. capensis X aliciae cross this year---both are certainly free flowering enough. The trick would be to de-anther the mother plant carefully enough. Then look for D. aliciae-like plants coming up from capensis-borne seeds and visa versa. Should be interesting. I've even seen a photo of the purported cross in an old CPN. Anyone other than Rob M and I with S. rubra alabamensis of flowering size? An interesting observation from last year was that while representative individuals from all the Sarr species flowered for me last year (except my S. oreophila's), S. rubra alabamensis did not produce pollen---just empty anthers. This happened also to Gordon Snelling (Southern California) and Paul McMillan (Nogales Arizona). Keep your eyes open---this is clearly an indication of the coming armageddon! BAMR ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) Date: Sat, 29 Feb 92 21:29:13 PST Subject: Re: CP update... My news: * D. regia seed from lowrie is germinating. It was planted on 2/5/92, and today I noticed 2 germinations. * N. boissiense has shown the first pitcher from a bud at soil level (this on a 2' vine). It's a ground pitchers, and looks a bit like N. rafflesiana. Thin lip though. * D. binata dichomata "Giant" has come out of dormany, and is sending up some real tall leaves. Big. Neat. * N. mirabilis outside is doing OK. Some plantlets showed withering at the edges of the leaves. I think this may be from too much water rather than cold, so I've backed off on the water. * Repotted some D. hamiltonii plantlets. I've had this species in peat/sand under a layer of live moss, and it hasn't been growing very aggressively, so I transplanted some small plants which Barry sent me last year (remember?) into straight peat/sand. * D. falconeri are growing slowly, under lights, at work. I don't believe this species is easy, despite what Lowrie wrote in CPN. Maybe they're going dormant. D. petiolaris seedling (pygmy sized) is doing great under the same conditions, and petiolaris aff. "Kununuura" is doing good as well, AFER I repotted it in a peatier peat/perlite w/ peat top dressing. The previous mix had too much perlite, and the plant didn't do well with that. I think perlite is an OK substitute for sand, but you should have more like a 60/40 peat/perlite mix at least, not 50/50. Robert ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 92 16:48:23 MST XSubject: Re: CP update... >Someone was asking about germination of the N Fusca and Tentaculata from the >seed bank. I haven't had much luck; I haven't had any germinations. >I have seen a herbarium sheet of D. madagascarensis. It looked like D. >anglica to me. The photograph of it in Kondo makes it look like the stemmy forms of D. intermedia. Now we have a real mix of answers! >Barry, I don't think CPN ever printed a picture of a P. cyclosecta flower, >or to my recollection have ever described it. I'll look in my notes. But until then I'm looking in a catalogue I just got from Marston Exotics (England) and they describe cyclosecta's flowers as being mallow. This Marston Exotics catalogue is interesting. The conversion from pounds (&) to US simolians ($) is about &1=$2.25 I think. Anyway, some prices... D. aliciae &4.3, D. capillaris &4.3, D. filiformis (X californica) &8.20, All pretty high! The highest price I saw is for S. oreophila @ &29.50! I find these prices also strange in that H. nutans and common Sarracenia all all priced at about &15. >* Repotted some D. hamiltonii plantlets. I've had this species Remember this winter I got all panicky because my plants died back? I took root cuttings as insurance (all growing well) and was relieved when they resumed growth? Well, something very good must have happened in all this because EVERY ONE of the original plants are producing scapes! I'm pretty thrilled, since photos of the flowers look big and lovely. >* D. falconeri are growing slowly, under lights, at work. I Well Mister Allen, my petiolaris `Kununurra' is in 50/50 peat/perlite and doing great. BAMR ################### From: dngess01 (Don) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 92 23:04:40 -0500 Subject: CP Nepenthes and watering: I grow all my Nepenthes in peat/perlite. I wouldn't advise letting them sit in water. If the humidity is high, it shouldn't need watering more than once a week. If they still dry out too fast, try adding more peat moss the next time you pot the plants. If the soil looks waterlogged at any time, I would repot immediately and put more perlite in the mixture. It's hard to find just the right ratio to give a soil that is neither too wet or too dry. Even for Drosera, my opinion is that letting them sit in water is more a convenience to the grower. All plants like plenty of oxygen in the soil and near the roots, and too much water drives the oxygen out. It may be ok if the water the plants are sitting in is refilled often with fresh water, but if the evaporation rate is low, the water will get stagnant . The smell is from anaerobic bacteria I seem to recall - that is bacteria that grows in absence of oxygen. Robert, it is ok now to send the seeds and D. falconeri any time. Try sending them near the beginning of the week so they won't sit someplace all day Sunday. Temperatures have been in the 70's for several days now. Barry, what kinds of Nepenthes does Marston sell? Any discounts for spending over a certain amount? I wouldn't mind buying a Heliamphora. We could get together for another mass purchase. ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 92 08:37:58 PST Subject: Re: CP >>The smell >>is from anaerobic bacteria I seem to recall - that is bacteria that grows >>in absence of oxygen. Hmm. I`ll have to follow the "drain the plants for a day or so every week or three" regimen and see if that works out. 'Have to be careful 'though. >> >>Barry, what kinds of Nepenthes does Marston sell? Any discounts for >>spending over a certain amount? I wouldn't mind buying a Heliamphora. >>We could get together for another mass purchase. If you order H. I'd make sure it's shipped in the pot, not bare root. H. roots are notoriously brittle, and if they break the plants are a pain to re-root. Maries' also had H., and it was about $50.00 a plant as I recall. r. ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 92 13:24:05 PST Subject: Re: Utric Question >>I am thinking ahead to spring and summer, and would like to, if possible, >>use aquatic utrics to control the problem of mosquito larvae growing >>in the few cm of water my CP pots stand in. So, since I know next to >>nothing about utrics, maybe you guys have some input: >> >>The main concern, I think, is that the bladders must be large enough to >>trap and kill the damn 'skeeter larvae. Are there species that fit >>the bill? Secondly, I guess I need a species that can tolerate heat >>and sun pretty well, since the water will get a lot of sun and thus be >>very warm, even hot maybe, on a hot sunny summer day. >> >>So, am I asking for the moon here or what?? Any and all suggestions would >>be welcome. I've considered the same thing myself. However there are a couple of problems that even non-taxonmist, seat of the pants growers like myself can see right off the bat: 1) slime - this stuf grows in the water in the trays and can suffocate the utrics. The only answer would be to build a surge tray type of setup with a recirculating water pump. 2) water depth. Usually trays only get 1" or water or less, which doesn't seem like enough. What about taking a plastic strawberry basket and filling it with terrestrial utrics? Might this be good enough? I'm not sure if there are any non-tropical terrestrials with big enough traps however. Regarding trap size, Lees lists (I think) U. purpurea as an aquatic with big traps, for sale. Based on what I saw in "DeathTrap", even small bladders can trap and kill a larger larva, even if they can't digest the whole thing. >> >>BTW, I got Lee's catalog yesterday, too. If I can scrape up a few $$, I'd >>like to buy a couple new Nepenthes this spring. I kinda figure Lee's >>or Orgel's orchids is my best bet. Anyone have a recent Orgel's Orchids >>catalog? Mine is over a year old. Maries CP and Orchids sells some rare Nepenthes, but they aren't cheap. Chuck Powell has also mentioned that he may be getting some tissue cultured rare Nepenthes for sale this year. Orgels and Lees are the best bets still I guess. Or try Gordon. r. ################### From: MAHARAJ@MCMASTER.BITNET Date: Wed, 4 Mar 92 13:24:05 PST Subject: Allen Lowrie Letter/Neat Seed Additions I just received a letter from Allen Lowrie in which he gave some useful hints regarding tuberous Drosera culture. I thought that the email gang would be interested in supplementing their own notes, so here it is: "Plenty of light. Fertilization (Miracid N.P.K. 10-10-10( is good in weak strenghts. *Don't* stand pots in water....keep just moist...soil mix well drained. 50/50 sand/peat or even 80/20 sand/peat. They will grow in pure sand. no worries also. When they die from surface...reduce watering *slowly* and over **2 months** until **bone dry**..." His seed update list (at 26/02/92) also has some neat stuff: D. collinsiae "Faryland" D. hilaris D. indica "Japan" D. lanata D. myriantha D. pauciflora "Yellow Flower" D. radicans D. ramentacea D. species "Small White Flower, South Africa" D. species "4" (South Africa) D. sessilifolia (Brasil) D. species (South Africa) - vigorous rosettes 2 cm, like D. dielsiana D. species "Auyan Tepui, South America" D. trinervia "Gifberg, S.A." D. trinervia "Pakhuispas, S.A." D. trinervia "Picketberg, S.A." D. villosa "Camino do Mar, Brasil" D. zeheri "Red and Pink Flowering Forms" Roridula dentata Roridula gorgonias P. alpina P. balcanica P. leptoceras D. capillaris "Giant" (USA) D. capensis "Crestate Form" plus other Drosera, Utrics (U. simplex), Nepenthes and Sarrs. Since the seed are listed as additions recently (26/02/92), they are presumably fresh and in the most viable state for germination. Seed packet are $3 AUS plus $7.50 AUS for P&H. All for now, Rob M. ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 92 16:01:14 MST XSubject: Re: Allen Lowrie Letter/Neat Seed Additions A good weekend for my plants! I got germination on my U. westonii and U. simplex from Allen. U. westonii is sort of an intermediate species between the subgenera Utricularia and Polypompholyx in Genus Utricularia. I had a long phone call with a guy named John Hummer, who runs Acid-Wetland Plants in Virginia. Don Schnell had recommended him as a good Sarracenia person. He seems to know his stuff. His catalogue is interesting and worth the $1.50. Also I got an excellent clone of P.lutea and S. psitticina `Giant' from Brucie Bender. I got this once before but before I really knew what I was doing with Sarrs and it rotted out on me. I was impressed when I opened the box. Leaves 8" long (mostly due to the pitcher tube), a very large globose hood that had a very interesting keel-shaped ridge to it. My wife looked at it and with her limited familiarity with CPs said, "It looks like it has part Cobra lily in it." That comment sums up its appearance very well. I did not find any indication it might be a hybrid. My bet is that in my typical Sarracenia culture it will revert to normal S. psitticina form. So, Mistuh Baumgartner, How long have you been growing your `giant' and does it seem particularly, er, giant? BAMR ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 11:19:29 MST XSubject: Re: Allen Lowrie Letter/Neat Seed Additions I've finally gotten some CP energy up and am planning out another Utric article for CPN (those of you who have received copies of my "Focusing on Utricularia---U. calycifida; prehensilis; uniflora; lateriflora/delicatula" are possibly cringing at the thought of Barry-gone-pedantic again). This one is on U. gibba (aka exoleta, biflora, sometimes fibrosa). I found out something surprising...U. gibba occurs in Hawaii. Earl, other than the Drosera, are you familiar with other local CP? BAMR ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Thu, 09 Apr 92 12:24:50 PDT XSubject: Re: Allen Lowrie Letter/Neat Seed Additions I went to California Carnivores this weekend and got five new plants: D. rotundifolia D. anglica D. alicia D. burmaneii P. esseriana The first 2 are old standards, but I didn't have them yet, so they are still fun. The alicia has is a beautiful 2" diameter rosette, bright red, with a 4" uncoiling flower scape. I'm looking forward to this one blooming. Does anyone know if it will self-pollinate? The D. burmaneii (sp?) is reported to be an annual that I should definitely try to collect seed from. It is really a juicy, succulent plant about 2" in diameter, with very long (1/2") tentacles on the outer margin of the leaf. I haven't seen it yet, but this sundew is supposed to have the fastest acting trapping mechanism, with the outer fingers closing in about 60 seconds. (fast enough to visually see motion). The Pinguicula esseriana is an interesting one. It forms small pale whitish-green-grey rosettes (1/2" dia) with slightly cup-shaped leaves, that look remarkably like the "hen-and-chicks plant". According to Peter, the succulent leaves are very easy rooters, putting up new growth at the base of the severed leaf. I'm looking forward to getting a colony of these things going. All in all, I spent about $35, or about $7.00/plant, which seems very reasonable since most of the pots have 5-6 small plants in them. Rick Walker ################### From: dngess01@vlsi.ct.louisville.edu (Don) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 23:03:07 -0400 Subject: Re: CP Does Don Schnell ever mention his Heliamphora? His Heliamphora article I loaned you mentioned he was successful in getting lots of seed from his plants. Ever try to beg him to send you any Heliamphora seeds? I STILL haven't received my new CPN either. Bob Ziemer used to compile a list of names with the species each was growing. The way he did it was to list the grower's names and addresses in the first half, numbering them in alphabetical order. The second half consisted of CP species, each species listed the numbers associated with the person who was growing that species. There would be a circle around the number if the person had that species for trade, an underlined number meant the grower had seed of that species to offer, etc. -- Rick Walker ################### From: s883351@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 22:34:11 +0000 XSubject: Re: CP >The Pinguicula esseriana is an interesting one. It forms small pale >whitish-green-grey rosettes (1/2" dia) with slightly cup-shaped leaves, >that look remarkably like the "hen-and-chicks plant". According to Peter, >the succulent leaves are very easy rooters, putting up new growth at the >base of the severed leaf. I'm looking forward to getting a colony of these >things going. Hmm, sounds like our "species nova #4", (bought as something else...). Let me know what the flowers look like when/if it does. Ours only produce 1 per rosette just before they enter dormancy. BTW, in case I haven't mentioned it before, the D. intermedia "Cuba" seedlings have just produced their first flowers - very promising. Hopefully they will survive the winter and continue to increase in size. ################### From: dngess01@vlsi.ct.louisville.edu (Don) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 01:22:43 -0400 Subject: new CPN I finally got the new CPN today (Friday). Notice that the captions for the photos on the front and rear covers should be switched. I liked that one line in the S. alata article: "The flora is mainly graminoid with wetland forbs ..." ################### From: Davin Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 16:08:37 EDT Subject: stuff Hey, I got germination on my drosophyllum. The seedlings have got the distinctive 'outward-curling' look about them. Hey, how dry should I let the soil become for this plant? I know it likes it dry and I have it double potted, but should I let the peat become light brown? Also on an up note, I got germination for N. fusca from the seed bank. Now I have N. maxima and fusca. Gee, what a variety of pitchers types. ;-) On the down side, I put some plants outside a few days ago and the temperature dipped to about 35F. Everybody was shocked, but only an unID'd african drosera actually bit it. Something nibbled on the S. flava 'Maxima' flower as well. Grrrr... Here's something off the beaten track: I'm going to try my hand at killifish. Got a guy from the net to send me a pair through the mail. Should get here any day now. I'll keep you guys posted. ################### From: dngess01@vlsi.ct.louisville.edu (Don) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 17:03:22 -0400 Subject: Re: new CPN On second thought, the captions on the new CPN, I think ought to be D. petiolaris "Kununurra" for the front, and D. petiolaris "type" for the back. I thought D. lanata and D. petiolaris "type" have similar-shaped leaves, but D. lanata has prostrate leaves while D. petiolaris "type" has erect leaves. ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 18:52:53 MST XSubject: Re: new CPN >still fun. The alicia has is a beautiful 2" diameter rosette, bright red, >with a 4" uncoiling flower scape. I'm looking forward to this one >blooming. Does anyone know if it will self-pollinate? Yeah, and it will proceed to shake the seeds all over into your other pots. Beware! I usually do not let my cappys, spathies, alicae, or capensis flower for this reason! >Does Don Schnell ever mention his Heliamphora? His Heliamphora article I >loaned you mentioned he was successful in getting lots of seed from >his plants. Ever try to beg him to send you any Heliamphora seeds? Never mentioned them. I would turn down the seeds if he offered them since my growing conditions are too warm. Or, more probably, I'd take them but would tell him I'd distribute them to growers in cooler climes. Oh oh. LISTEN UP! If any of you ever got any S. oreophila seedlings from me that I said came from Don Schnell, BEWARE! One of them is starting to produce pitchers with broadly flared erect pitcher lids---clear sign of S. purpurea influence. Looks like some accidental hybridization in Don S.'s G-house. I'll take him to task next time I write him. Now I'm eyeing my other CP seeds from him! This sort of irritates me. On the other hand, any S. oreophila seedlings you might have gotten from me, from Paul McMillan's crosses, still look good to me. Getting germination of some interesting forms of D. capensis from Allen Lowrie, such as a couple `Giant' forms. Rick: Not to throw water on the fire regarding your excellent CP-list idea, but (quite humbly) I've got a friggin huge CP list (well, at least 250+ entries of species, varieties, hybrids, etc.) and the idea of typing all this stuff in is sort of scarey. Now, granted it is already on this very computer, but it is in TEX format {which is ascii but with lots of extra characters} as anyone unfortunate enough to ask for this file from me knows! Also, it changes on a weekly basis with germinations, deaths, etc. etc. I don't know how to get around these problems. Keeping own list up to date for me is a job enough as it is! I was doing some major landscaping today. My wife and I removed this old weed-vine from part of the house---woody stem 4" across at the base. Anyway, this kooky woman next door (who wouldn't prune a bush---hurt it so!---if her life depended on it) came over and said, "OH NO! You're cutting down that poor plant! What gives you that right! Who do you think you are!" I looked at her and said, "Well as far as that plant is concerned, God, I guess." She was stunned by my response. She practically burst into tears as she hustled back into her house (probably to feed her 8 cats). My pleasure had no bounds. BAMR ################### From: dngess01@vlsi.ct.louisville.edu (Don) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 23:13:09 -0400 Subject: CP In reading over the previous articles, there was mention of premature death of D. glanduligera plants. Mine have all croaked just as they were putting up flower stalks! I had four plants - I cut the flower stalk off just as it was forming on the last plant when I saw the first plant had died when it was just about to open its first flower. This last plant then appeared to be a little healthier than the rest, but it eventually just died like the other three. What's the deal with U. nephrophylla and U. reniformis? The current CPN says U. nephrophylla has small leaves and U. reniformis has large leaves. I have a plant labelled U. nephrophylla (I think from Barry) that has large leaves at least 4 cm. in diameter. The article in CPN says U. nephrophylla has small leaves not larger than 1 cm. in diameter. My D. falconeri are growing strong. They looked to be dormant when I got them from Robert Allen, but they started growing when I put a plastic bag over the top of the pot. There is no lamina yet - just a little hairy knob at the end of the petiole, but they appear to be in good shape. ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 20:26:57 MST XSubject: Re: CP >What's the deal with U. nephrophylla and U. reniformis? The current >CPN says U. nephrophylla has small leaves and U. reniformis has large >leaves. I have a plant labelled U. nephrophylla (I think from Barry) >that has large leaves at least 4 cm. in diameter. The article in CPN >says U. nephrophylla has small leaves not larger than 1 cm. in >diameter. As nearly everyone knows, I get longwinded esp. regarding Utricularia. So I'll keep this very short. Aside from a variety of other differences between the two species (steady boy, no reason to enumerate them!) U. reniformis has much larger leaves than nephrophylla, as least if grown well. While U. nephrophylla's leaves rarely get much bigger than 3 cm across (the big leaves you're getting are quite admirable), the leaves of reniformis can get large enough to cover a good fraction of your computer screen! (Unless you're using a sun, then maybe a typical window). I'd like to say more, but I better not. My clone of U. reniformis is recently acquired, and is pondering if life is worth living. The stolons are thick and crisp, like fresh mung bean sprouts. BAMR Wow! That was short! ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 09:14:05 PDT Subject: Re: CP >> >>My D. falconeri are growing strong. They looked to be dormant when I >>got them from Robert Allen, but they started growing when I put a >>plastic bag over the top of the pot. There is no lamina yet - just a >>little hairy knob at the end of the petiole, but they appear to be in >>good shape. Could you enumerate your water/temp for this species? Mine has gone dormant and has not come back out of it, and it seems that my falconeri X d.p. is cutting back on growth also. I'm thinking that they aren't happy with my 50 degree nighttime temps.... r. ################### From: ATLAS@JHUVMS.HCF.JHU.EDU Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 16:53 EST XSubject: Re: CP Davin, from what I've heard about Drosophyllum seedlings, supposedly you shouldn't let the medium get dry when the seedlings are young...once they get to be a decent size (like in a few months), then you can let the soil become relatively dry. I have had success this way, but my oldest plant is only about 8 months old, so you might want to seek advice from more experienced growers. Oh, yeah, I might be interested in a cutting from your N Maxima. Stupid question: is N Maxima a hybrid? Of what species? Is it a biggie, as its name implies? doug ################### From: Davin Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 17:22:30 EDT XSubject: Re: CP N. maxima is a rather fast growing species with green mottled w/red pitchers about 6-10" under my conditions. The one that I have I got from Orgel's Orchids about year ago. I think that it's supposed to be a highland, but mine is going great guns under temps about 80F day and 60-70F night. I have it growing in live sphagnum. Now, I haven't rooted the plant. In fact, I haven't even cut it yet. I hope that it'll be OK to send it through the mail using the chop-and-ship method. ################### From: ATLAS@JHUVMS.HCF.JHU.EDU Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 17:38 EST Subject: N Maxima cutting Davin, The chop and ship method is okay, I suppose, but I have never had a try at Nepenthes cuttings. I have the technology (live sphag, rootone), so you think it's worth a try? If you think it's risky, maybe someone else could benefit more than myself from the cutting. doug ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 14:45:10 PDT Subject: Re: N Maxima cutting >>Davin, >> >>The chop and ship method is okay, I suppose, but I have never had a try >>at Nepenthes cuttings. I have the technology (live sphag, rootone), so >>you think it's worth a try? If you think it's risky, maybe someone else >>could benefit more than myself from the cutting. Go for it, it's not hard if you have a terrarium with even halfway decent humidity. I've tried rooting two cuttings in the past year. The first one, I think from Michael, eventually rotted. It was two nodes as I recall, and appeared to be a terminal cutting from a previously truncated plant, which had activated a dormant node. Anyhow I trimmed about 1/8" off the cut end to get fresh plant area, dipped it in rootone, and stuffed it in a ventilated styrofoam cup full of live spahgnum. After many months it hadn't done much. Eventually it rotted, at which time I found out that an ant colony was living in the cup. To this day I have three relevant opinions: 1) don't ventilate the cup too much, just put some drainage holes in it, 2) don't bother using rootone, and 3) leave about 1/2" of the leaf on each leaf. The cutting I had had VERY thin leaves, only about 1/4" wide, and maybe this was part of the problem. I've since rooted a cutting from Don. I just trimmed the end, stuffed it in a cup of moss in my terrarium, and left it alone, pouring some water in the top of the cup, to drain through and out the bottom, when the moss looked dry. It's now rooted and activating several nodes. It's easy to do, or at least, if it fails it won't necessarily be because you blew it. Some root, and some don't. Don't let the moss get soggy. And DON'T pull on the cutting to see if it's rooted. You'll know if it's rooted when the leaf nodes start sprouting. IMHO of course. r. ################### From: dngess01@vlsi.ct.louisville.edu (Don) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 18:46:28 -0400 Subject: D. falconeri >Could you enumerate your water/temp for this species? Mine has gone dormant >and has not come back out of it, and it seems that my falconeri X d.p. is >cutting back on growth also. I'm thinking that they aren't happy with my >50 degree nighttime temps.... > >r. > I have them under flourescent lights, about 5 inches from the bulbs of a two-bulb fixture. The lights are on 18 hours a day. They are both in the same plastic pot - about 8" in diameter and about 6" deep. The temperature is in the low 70's when the lights are on, and goes down to the low 60's when the lights are off. The cover on the Sept-Dec 1990 CPN shows D. falconeri growing in habitat. The soil looks sort of sandy, so I used a mixture of equal parts sand, perlite, and peat moss. When the plant's weren't growing, this soil was just barely damp. I started adding a little water when the plants started growing. I'll keep the plastic bag over the pot as long as the plants seem to like it and there doesn't seem to be any mold growing. ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 20:05:04 MST XSubject: Re: D. falconeri >Davin, from what I've heard about Drosophyllum seedlings, supposedly you >shouldn't let the medium get dry when the seedlings are young...once they >get to be a decent size (like in a few months), then you can let the >soil become relatively dry. I have had success this way, but my oldest I've moderately familiar with this plant, and your advice is quite sound... Incidentally, before I dirty Don Schnell's name with rumours of S. oreophila and S. purpurea mix-ups, note that this sort of thing can just happen to the best of us! All you need is a less than perfect situation and a rogue pollinator (even wind) could screw things up. Also, it might have happened at the seed bank. Also, possibly a seed from one of my pots might have gotten into another pot (water splashes?). Some of my D. falconeri are trying to flower. I nipped those in the bud pronto. Also on the petiolaris front. I planted my falconeri/lanata/petiolaris plants in peat, peat/sand, or peat/perlite. Some are doing much better than others, but it is NOT correlated with soil mix. I.E. 1 falconeri in peat/sand is doing well, but of the two in pure peat one is doing great, the other poorly. So I don't think soil mix is too important yet. At least for my growing conditions. BAMR ################### From: Davin Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 17:49:19 EDT Subject: Re: N Maxima cutting > > What are the temp rqmts. for Maxima? > > r. I grow it at about 80F day/ 70F night and its going gangbusters. Of course, this is at very high humidity in a terrarium. Its right under 4 4' fluorescents .. ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 16:37:19 PDT Subject: D.Capensis (thin-leaved) Robert, It's been awhile since we traded some plants... Has the D. capensis I gave you started to fatten-up like your other plants? I'm really curious to know if it really is a thin-leaved form, or if the difference is simply environmental. I talked with Peter D'Amato about the difference between the thin and regular-leaved capensis. His experience was that the thin-leaved form: 1) Had thinner leaves :-), 2) Always remained a low-rosette, and never developed a long stalk built of dead leaves, 3) was difficult to get seed from. The capensis that I have looks distinctly thinner and more delicate than what I've seen elsewhere, but my year-old plants have developed about 3/4" of a "trunk", and reseed like crazy... Does anyone else have any experience with ID'ing these things? (The reason I want to know is that Peter said that he would trade for my plants if they were thin-leaved, but that he was otherwise not interested) I'm planning to take a plant with me when Peter is down for the Palo Alto Junior Museum CP-show. Here's a run-down on the plants I got from you: I repotted the D. auriculata seedlings (marked from Bros. Taylor) in 50/50 sand/peat, and put them 16 to a pot on roughly 1/2" centers. They are just now breaking out of the basal rosette form and starting to climb. I've got them in a 2 3/4" pot. Do you think they need a deeper pot for tuber development the first season? The D. adeleae have put out two or three new leaves, and turned a nice red, but hasn't really taken off yet. I think I may lose the two D. hamiltonii. They haven't done much at all. They are in the original pot in my terrarium under four 4' fluorescents. I have them standing in 1/4" water. Temps from 60-70 F. Both the N. mirabilis seedlings and the mirabilis x ted payne have put out a few new pitchers and are looking pretty happy. The U. gramminifolia has filled up the pot, but the praelonga is really going slowly. I can just now start to see some new leaf development. Hopefully, it is doing a lot of work underground :-). -- Rick ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 23:33:45 PDT Subject: Re: D.Capensis (thin-leaved) >>It's been awhile since we traded some plants... Has the D. capensis >>I gave you started to fatten-up like your other plants? I'm really >>curious to know if it really is a thin-leaved form, or if the difference >>is simply environmental. I definately don't think it's environmental. The plant looks pretty much identical to the way it did when you gave it to me, except it maybe has some more leaves. It reminds me of a what a mature D. capensis "red" looks like, except it's yellow. >> >>Here's a run-down on the plants I got from you: >> >>I repotted the D. auriculata seedlings (marked from Bros. Taylor) in >>50/50 sand/peat, and put them 16 to a pot on roughly 1/2" centers. They >>are just now breaking out of the basal rosette form and starting to >>climb. I've got them in a 2 3/4" pot. Do you think they need a deeper >>pot for tuber development the first season? Heck if I know. I'd leave them alone now and see if they come back next year from tubers. >> >>The D. adeleae have put out two or three new leaves, and turned a nice red, >>but hasn't really taken off yet. Barry can make many comments about this species :-). >> >>I think I may lose the two D. hamiltonii. They haven't done much at >>all. They are in the original pot in my terrarium under four 4' >>fluorescents. I have them standing in 1/4" water. Temps from 60-70 F. These things sometimes go dormant, or die back, and then come back from the thick underground roots. Some of my plantlets, originally from Barry, look like you describe, but another from the same group is putting up new, dewey, leaves. This plant is listed as tuberous, but is also ack'ed not to form tubers. All I can say is that it grows in wierd cyclces, and seems to not form much dew on the leaves. >> >>Both the N. mirabilis seedlings and the mirabilis x ted payne have put out >>a few new pitchers and are looking pretty happy. >> >>The U. gramminifolia has filled up the pot, but the praelonga is really >>going slowly. I can just now start to see some new leaf development. >>Hopefully, it is doing a lot of work underground :-). My praelonga isn't doing much either. Maybe it needs truly steamy jungle conditions. As for the g., I'm not surprised. What a weed. Now if it would only flower. Robert ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 11:13:14 PDT Subject: Re: N Maxima cutting >>> >>> What are the temp rqmts. for Maxima? >>> >>> r. >> >>I grow it at about 80F day/ 70F night and its going gangbusters. Of course, >>this is at very high humidity in a terrarium. Its right under 4 4' Hmmm. It sounds like it might not be happy as an outdoor plant, which is where I'd be putting it longer term. We're still getting night temps which dip into the upper 40's once in a while. When that stops, I'll build a lean-to anti-rodent cage and move some of my Nepenthes outdoors. My N. ventricosa has been outdoors for a while now and is looking pretty happy. flourescents are definately no subsitute for the sun. r. ################### From: Davin Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 16:25:13 EDT Subject: Re: N Maxima cutting Hmmm. It sounds like it might not be happy as an outdoor plant, which You grow your Nepenthes outdoors? In greenhouse? Where do you live again? I've tried growing the maxima outside under dappled sunlight and it slowed to a stop and then exploded (into growth) when I brought it back to the terrarium. If this is the case, what Nepens do well outdoors? Khasiana? Fusca? On another note, have any of you ever grown a plant called Voodoo Lily? I've got one right now. Wild flower. Smells like good rotted meat. This might compete with Stapelia gigantea, Barry. Great to show to friends ("This one smells just like chocolate. Take a big whiff.") Anybody know the latin name for this? ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 14:51:35 PDT Subject: Re: N Maxima cutting >> >>You grow your Nepenthes outdoors? In greenhouse? Where do you live again? Nooooo, I grow mine outside, without a greenhouse. In the winter I take them inside and put them under lights, but last year, and again this year, I'm growing my N. ventricosa outside, in the open, inside my wire cover. In the cooler weather it grows a bit slower, but I get good colour, and it still pitchers up. The pitchers may be smaller than if grown in higher humidity, but then again, maybe not. If we start getting really warm weather I'll move the rest of mine outside and see how they do. Inside they are languishing, although I should be fertilizing them really. >> >>I've tried growing the maxima outside under dappled sunlight and it slowed >>to a stop and then exploded (into growth) when I brought it back to the >>terrarium. I think they can take more sun than you think. My ventricosa gets direct sun for a couple of hours a day. They do grow slower outside though, and then explode when you move them indoors. Long term however they seem to languish. >> >>If this is the case, what Nepens do well outdoors? Khasiana? Fusca? I think khasiana, ventricosa, and maybe some hybrids may be suitable for trying outdoors. I believe Gordon grows most all of his plants outside, at least during warm weather. >> >>On another note, have any of you ever grown a plant called Voodoo >>Lily? I've got one right now. Wild flower. Smells like good rotted >>meat. This might compete with Stapelia gigantea, Barry. Great to >>show to friends ("This one smells just like chocolate. Take a big >>whiff.") Anybody know the latin name for this? I've been wanting to order one of these. What I'm really looking for however is the bigger one, the "rotting corpse lily", which gets a huge flower and a huge stench. Maybe it'll keep the squirrels away. r. ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 19:31:43 MST XSubject: Re: N Maxima cutting >> >>The D. adeleae have put out two or three new leaves, and turned a nice red, >>but hasn't really taken off yet. >Barry can make many comments about this species :-). :| >>The U. gramminifolia has filled up the pot, but the praelonga is really >>going slowly. I can just now start to see some new leaf development. > My praelonga isn't doing much either. Maybe it needs truly steamy > jungle conditions. As for the g., I'm not surprised. What a weed. Nah. Just moisture and warmth. Give it a little while and soon it will be on your weed list. Remember it is dimorphic, and if big grassy leaves start getting produced in your pot, that's them! (I personally think "graminifolia" isn't particularly deserving of its name, considering others in the genus! >There is still a need for someone to write a nice info file, and maybe >a cultivation guide for beginners... Hey, I think something very important is for you guys to nominate someone, like Rick, to write something up for CPN about this now that it is getting "bigger." Also, readers of other plant-related news groups should make a little posting about this. I know I did this already myself several months ago, but by now there are new readers. I've since signed off the orchids and rec.gardens newsgroups. BAMR ################### From: dngess01@vlsi.ct.louisville.edu (Don) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 22:50:13 -0400 Subject: Re: CP >BTW, what happened to the messages from 02/91 to 09/91? I lost my network access in February, 1991, and then found a way to get back on in September 1991. My D. adelae from Barry is now flowering. It is the green-flower (also called "whitish flower") form. ################### From: Davin Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 15:44:56 EDT Subject: Re: N Maxima cutting Nooooo, I grow mine outside, without a greenhouse. In the winter I ta Sounds great. I could use the room in my terrarium in the summer, but where do you live? From your node all I could guess is that you either live in England, New England, or the sun. ;-) My address: Davin Stewart Cornell University 25 Hurlburt House Ithaca NY 14853 Note that this will be changing around the middle of May. Just for the record, here's my permanent (read parents) address: 24 Euclid Ave. Pitman NJ 08071 I'll try to send the N.maxima cutting sometime next week. By then the weather should be a bit warmer (we still have nights dipping to 20-30's) and the package will miss the Sunday break. If I remember correctly, Doug is the only one who gets a cutting, right? >Everything was in great shape. What was your address again Davin? I'll try >ending a D. dielsiana seedling in the letter with the postage. Address above. Any tips on dielsiana culture? Also, could I get the plant list going around? I think Rick has the latest edition. I've updated my list. Does anyone want that? ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 13:13:06 PDT Subject: Re: N Maxima cutting >>Sounds great. I could use the room in my terrarium in the summer, but >>where do you live? From your node all I could guess is that you >>either live in England, New England, or the sun. ;-) I live in the SF Bay Area, in CA. I live within a mile of the bay, which keeps my nighttime temps up. In San Jose, about 20 miles away, they get nighttime frosts rather often. I didn't realize how much effect a large body of water could have. >> >>Address above. Any tips on dielsiana culture? Ditto. And how big do these get? I have some that are about dime sized, and though they look OK, they aren't getting any bigger. I also have a mystery drosera which came with a D. intermedia from Michael Chamberland last year. It hasn't gotten any larger, and looks a lot like the dielsiana I have. r. ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 17:34:36 MST XSubject: Re: N Maxima cutting >My D. adelae from Barry is now flowering. It is the green-flower (also >called "whitish flower") form. Also, the D. collinsae is putting up >another flower SAY WHAT? I haven't got any white flower clones. My two mature clones of this plant (one was from Mike) have distinctly different growth forms but both are red flowered (at least in the G-house). I have some seedling plants called D. adelae `green' from the ICPS seedbank, but those might just be poorly named or could refer to leaf colouration. Are you growing these green plants in low light? I was fiddling around in my greenhouse today, just enjoying my plants and seeing the sights. So much time is spent repotting, dividing, hybridizing, getting plants to trade, watering, etc that I don't get much time just to pick up a pot and say, "Hey! What a cool looking plant!" Well I did that today! :) Some neato observations: My D. cistiflora red is around 3cm across and they are possibly breaking into erect growth! It took 2 years! On 11/90 Rob M sent me some seeds of D. linearis. I planted them, froze the pot for 4 months, and upon thawing the seedlings started to germinate. I prick them out for winter stratification, and now there are more seedlings germinating this spring! Roridula gorgonias germinates. D. macrantha `Wheatbelt' dies back. The tuber is successfully well formed! My U. resupinata is going to produce at least a couple flowers this year! My D. peltata `Kandos Area' is flowering profusely, and ovaries are plumping up without any intervention from me. The B. gigantea is entering a long internode growth phase. The plant's about 16" tall. The Drosophyllum seed pods are plumping up well. Even if they are not going to produce seed they do this {Mike take note :( } but looking through the tranluscent capsule I can see seeds forming inside. The capsules on this plant are very weird. Rob M, I'll get seeds for you soon from Paul McMillan. Now that tax time is over he'll come out of his hole. I have many plants I have to give him. My clone of D. binata multifida extrema from Paul is producing a flower stalk that's seven mm wide at the base! Humongous! Lastly, my P. lutea is flowering nicely. These N. American Pings are so goofy! As soon as the peduncle is a few mm long, the flower starts to open. Then, with the flower open, the peduncle daily elongates till it is a few decimeters long. I wonder what purpose is served? My Sarracenia are outdoing themselves this year, too. This is the first year I've let my rubra jonesii flower, and it's going crazy! The only plant over 4 years old that hasn't flowered yet is my minor `typical' and minor `Okee giant' and those have buds all over! Some of my hybrids are semi-mature now. The S. leucophylla X (flava rugeli X rubra gulfensis) is producing lovely coloured pitchers. Looks like a deeply veined leuc, lots of red, and a rugelii throat splotch! The purpurea X (minor X purpurea) has a compact rosette of a bunch of sharply curved pitchers, like a bunch of conspirators in a huddle. Lastly, a very precocious S. flava `red tube, yellow lid' from Rob M is already living up to its name, and it's only 2.5" tall! These CP are fun! BAMR ################### From: dngess01@vlsi.ct.louisville.edu (Don) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 19:55:48 -0400 XSubject: Re: N Maxima cutting >>My D. adelae from Barry is now flowering. It is the green-flower >>(also called "whitish flower") form. Also, the D. collinsae is >>putting up another flower > >SAY WHAT? I haven't got any white flower clones. My two mature clones >of this plant (one was from Mike) have distinctly different growth >forms but both are red flowered (at least in the G-house). I have some >seedling plants called D. adelae `green' from the ICPS seedbank, but >those might just be poorly named or could refer to leaf colouration. >Are you growing these green plants in low light? It's a fact, Jack! The flowers are identical to the top picture on p.13, CPN Vol 17, #1. No red at all in the petals. They are growing under flourescent lights under fairly low light levels. I measured the leaves at 16 cm. long. I took my P. vulgaris out of the fridge today. The three plants have all broken dormancy and have grown into small rosettes. They look healthy despite being wrapped in moss and haven't had any light. The D. linearis didn't look as good. I have seed of this species from the seed bank, but it's a bit late in the year to try this as the seed needs stratification to germinate. ################### From: Anders Ardo Date: Mon, 20 Apr 92 21:28:05 +0200 Subject: Novice, help needed Hello, I have been following this list for some time now without taking active part in the discussions. But now just in a few weeks I have obtained 6 different CPs (some gifts, some bought). I have previously only tried keeping our local Swedish CPs outdoors, and even that was several years ago. I have no experience keeping tropical CPs indoors in pots, so I need some advice from you experts! My plant list (names are from the labels, most plants are grown by a Dutch firm). All plants are kept with ~ 1 cm water on the saucer at room temperature and 60 - 65 % hudmidity: * Drosera capensis: My oldest plant (4 weeks). Repotted in half * peat/half sand. About to flower. New plants: * Drosera spp: 2-3 cm long, 1 cm wide leaves in a thight rosette close to the soil. * Pinguicula moranensis: Flowering large purple flowers. * Saracenia hybride: Long (20 cm), green, upright pitchers, new (small) pitchers are red. * Nepentes hybride: Collected in Florida: * Utricularia: aquatic, 2 species, one small single strand with bladders (gibba?) and one with a central stem with fine leaves and lots of bladders. Any hints or ideas are welcome. Even (especially) basic advice how to arrange a suitable environment for the CPs. Anders Anders Ardo Tel: int+46 46 107522 Dept. of Computer Engineering fax: int+46 46 104714 University of Lund, P.O. Box 118 Internet: anders@dit.lth.se S-221 00 Lund, Sweden ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 92 12:34:37 PDT Subject: Re: Novice, help needed >>My plant list (names are from the labels, most plants are grown by a Dutch >>firm). All plants are kept with ~ 1 cm water on the saucer at room >>temperature and 60 - 65 % hudmidity: I'm surprised you know how much humidity you have :-). I don't. I rely on how my plants look to determine if they're getting enough water/sun/humidity. Your arrangement sounds OK to me, although letting Nepenthes stand in water is considered a bad idea by some. N. are not true bog plants, and so don't like soggy feet. >> >> >>* Saracenia hybride: Long (20 cm), green, upright pitchers, new >>* (small) >> pitchers are red I've noticed that the small, growing, pitchers on my sarrs. are red also, but this fades as they inflate. I have my sarrs growing outdoors, where temps are 70-80 F during the day, and down to the upper '40's at night. Are you growing under artificial light, or sunlight? r. ################### From: Davin Date: Mon, 20 Apr 92 17:32:10 EDT Subject: Re: Novice, help needed >* Drosera capensis: My oldest plant (4 weeks). Repotted in half > peat/half sand About to flower. This is considered to be a good 'beginner' plant. It's very hardy and has colorful flowers (for a drosera). It can soon become a weed (although a nice one :) under proper conditions. The flowers are usually a dark lavender with yellow stamens (?). I agree with Sensei Allen. It sounds as if you're growing this under good conditions. I'm growing mine under four cool-white flourescent lights in a terrarium right now and it's doing fairly well. An easy way to tell if your droseras are doing well is by the amount of 'dew' on their leaves. I think that this plant is from australia as mine has gone dormant in the summer. Is this correct anyone? >* Drosera spp: 2-3 cm long, 1 cm wide leaves in a thight rosette > close to the soil. At a guess, grow it like the D. capensis. Anything funky about this one that would help in an ID? > Pinguicula moranensis: Flowering large purple flowers. This is a nice Mexican Butterwort. If I remember correctly, it likes air around its roots and high humidity. It will grow under low light conditions. Mine always rotted though, so you might want to take someone else's opinion on this one. :) > Saracenia hybride: Long (20 cm), green, upright pitchers, new (small) > pitchers are red. I'm also growing mine outside with conditions similar to Robs. These tend to like lots of light (6 hours direct sun is good) and moisture (mine have water right up to the top of the soil). Also, none of these are tropical. Most are from southern North Amerca with one species extending up into Canada. They will require a cold dormancy of a few months every year. > Nepentes hybride: These are nice and tropical. There are two horticultural types: lowland and highland. Lowland like temps 70-80F. Highland like things cooler. All like lots of humidity, although 65% sounds fine. All like well drained medium and I think that live sphagnum is considered the best soil for these plants (somebody correct me if I'm wrong). I'm growing mine in the same terrarium as my D. capensis and it was going great guns until I cut it today, which bnrings me to my next topic. Doug, I cut the N. maxima today, but missed the Post Office hours by 15 minutes so I'll have to send it tomorrow. I had trouble fitting this thing in a ziploc it had so much foliage :-) My S. flava 'Maxima' is putting out its first pitcher now. Holy cats! This thing deserves its name, so far the pitcher is about 3 feet tall and just about ready to open. I think I'll like this one. ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 92 15:19:14 PDT Subject: Re: Novice, help needed >>An easy way to tell if your >>droseras are doing well is by the amount of 'dew' on their leaves. That's my primary metric. >>this plant is from australia as mine has gone dormant in the summer. >>Is this correct anyone? This plant is from Southern Africa (i.e. The Cape Sundew). >> >>>* Drosera spp: 2-3 cm long, 1 cm wide leaves in a thight rosette >>> close to the soil. >> >>At a guess, grow it like the D. capensis. Anything funky about this >>one that would help in an ID? Does it have big fat roots (spaghetti thickness), or threadlike roots? Do you know if it goes dormant? During the growing season most sundews, perhaps not including tuberous and pygmies, seem to be able to take a LOT of water. I've got a few in my outdoor bog garden with Sarrs., and the only thing I did for them was putting them on little elevated hummocks which put them an inch or so above the level of the sarrs. >> >>> Pinguicula moranensis: Flowering large purple flowers. >> >>This is a nice Mexican Butterwort. If I remember correctly,it likes >>air around its roots and high humidity. It will grow under low light >>conditions. Mine always rotted though, so you might want to take >>someone else's opinion on this one. :) Others have said that most butterworts rot in terrariums. I have mine outside and it seems to be doing fine. >> >>I'm also growing mine outside with conditions similar to Robs. These >>tend to like lots of light (6 hours direct sun is good) and moisture >>(mine have water right up to the top of the soil). Also, none of >>these are tropical. Most are from southern North Amerca with one >>species extending up into Canada. They will require a cold dormancy >>of a few months every year. Note that I don't think you need water to anywheres near the soil level, although during a growing season it doesn't hurt to keep all the soil wet/moist. I keep a top dressing of live spahgnum on top of the peat sand as it keeps the soil from drying out quickly, as well as keeping it from splashing around from top watering. When these plants are really happy they will get good colour, and they will product very noticeable droplets of nectar around the traps. It can be so thick you'd mistake it for condensation. r. ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 92 16:05:05 PDT Subject: Eyuuch. Can some of you more experienced CP types guess what this is about? Yesterday I let my mature Nepenthes outside for the day to soak up some rays and maybe catch some bugs. While doing this I noticed that the nectar covering the lip of a pitcher on my N. margareta X mirabilis was so thick that the lip no longer looked ribbed. It was quite sweet to the taste. While moving my plant outside I spilled the contents of the one mature, open, pitcher from this plant. Eyyyyyyyyycchhhhh!!! A giant phlegm-globber slung out from the pitcher, BARELY missing my hand (thank god). Fortunately this plant was in my terrarium and didn't have any dead bugs in it. Does anyone know what causes pitcher contents to do this? Disgusted, rja ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 92 19:49:58 MST XSubject: Re: Eyuuch. >>>My D. adelae from Barry is now flowering. It is the green-flower (also > >>SAY WHAT? I haven't got any white flower clones. My two mature >>clones of this plant (one was from Mike) have distinctly different >>growth forms but both are >It's a fact, Jack! The flowers are identical to the top picture on p.13, I don't understand this. I've grown this plant for several years and only gotten red flowers. I propagate by root cuttings only, and am pretty sure by now I have a monoclonal culture! Are you growing it under weak light? >I took my P. vulgaris out of the fridge today. The three plants have all I want to see if I can score any P. macroceras or P. macroceras `nortensis,' the Californian plants. I wonder how easy they are to grow? >BAMR, Roridula germinates? Neeto! I thought you didn't care for this plant >tho? I don't care for it. I got the seeds from Lowrie for buddy Paul McMillan. He asked me to plant it for him. I did and it grew. I'm heading down there this weekend, probably. Anders: Sounds like you are doing great. The soil mix and humidity sounds fine---my plants grow well between 50---80%. Only the Nepenthes really prefer humidity near 100%. Make sure they get plenty of light---at least 4 fluorescent bulbs (not incandescent) 12" or so away. The red at the base of your Sarracenia hybrid is not useful for keying the species. But it does mean your plant is growing vigorously! If it gets too tall and spindly, you will have to devise a means for getting it more light. >My S. flava 'Maxima' is putting out its first pitcher now. Holy cats! >This thing deserves its name, so far the pitcher is about 3 feet tall >and just about ready to open. I think I'll like this one. My maxima is huge too! A few years ago my wife and I were at the Field Museum in Chicago and were looking at a botany exhibit of different plant structures. A few things were real but most were oversize sculptures out of some mysterious material. The model of a Utricularia bladder was several cm across, and the Sarracenia flava model was significantly larger than life (about 20%) as I pointed out to my wife (even she could tell---but she's starting to learn the genus names by osmosis). Well, now my maxima is doing its magic and I can see I was wrong! In addition to being tall, it is tough and leathery, and very wide. Last year only one pitcher was so big, the others were normal. This year at least two will be monstrous. The flowers are oversize too. What a plant! It is available at Lee's, for the U.S. growers on this list. BAMR ################### From: dngess01@vlsi.ct.louisville.edu (Don) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 92 22:54:35 -0400 XSubject: Re: Eyuuch. I noticed two more seeds have sprouted on my old seed flat of N. x (ventricosa x (carunculata x bongso)). Barry relayed a message from Gordon saying N. sp (Talang) is actually N. x (carunculata x bongso). This seed is 11 months old. Good light may play a part in getting Nepenthes seeds to germinate. I had the flat on top of a heating mat for the past two months, but they didn't germinate until I took the flat off the mat and put it outside, where it got about an hour of full sun in the morning and light shade the rest of the day. I took it outside only about 10 days ago. I also have two seedlings sprouting of N. vieilardii (type) bought from Allen Lowrie. Also coming up are a bunch of D. madagascariensis seedlings. The Sarracenia still need a week or more till the first pitchers develop fully. My D. adelae is growing under lights right next to my D. prolifera. My D. prolifera flowers have all been dark red. The D. adelae flowers have all been greenish so far with not a hint of color on the petals. The color could still be environmental (very likely if all the plants I have are all root divisions of the red-flower form). I put my D. dielsiana outside over a week ago. The whole plant now has taken on a great orange color, with dark red tentacles. They look really neat. Not too big though - only a couple centimeters in diameter. ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 92 15:19:38 MST XSubject: Re: Eyuuch. Hey: In a short while I'm going to be doing some weeding of my Sarracenia seedlings. As you may know, in addition to trading I will sell my plants (but as Rick wisely pointed out...plants are better than money!). But anyway, if you want some Sarracenia seedlings here is my list of what's available. Now mind you, this crop of seedlings consists of TINY plants, just a few months old. But it's fun to grow them even at this age, watching them mature, etc. A Sarracenia takes about 4---5 years to go from a seedling to flowering size. The purp purp heterophylla are slightly older, somewhat larger, rather harder to grow. If you see anything you want, email me your requests, but don't send money until you get the plants. That way 1)You'll see which I could actually send 2)You can make sure they got to you in good shape 3)You can see how much postage I was charged---I'd appreciate if you'd add that to your check. I mail plants 1st class. Of course any cultural hints are F.O.C.!!! For a complete list of the plants I have for sale, mail me and I'll beam you my list. S. purpurea purpurea heterophylla.....seedlings---$3 each(very rare plant) S. leucophylla X (flava X purp).......Tiny seedlings, $1 each, 3 minimum S. (flava X purp) X alata pubescent......." " S. rubra gulfensis X purpurea............." " S. alata X rubra rubra...................." " S. alata `red-black' X flava `ornata'...." " S. alata X rubra gulfensis................" " S. alata X purpurea......................." " S. flava `ornata' X flava `atropurpurea'.." " BAMR ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 92 23:05:26 PDT Subject: news from the garden Squirrels ate the first pitcher of the year off my S. flava. D. auriculata seedlings are finally going vertical. D. peltata seed harvested. Local rodentia on my s***list.... r. ################### From: dngess01@vlsi.ct.louisville.edu (Don) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 92 00:34:57 -0400 Subject: CP and earthquake So, what's the earthquake report from those living in the San Francisco area? My D. falconeri has produced its first leaf. VERY tiny - about 1 cm including the petiole. My Mexican Pings are successfully being propagated by leaf cuttings now. Since November, I had tried propagating them, but all the leaf cuttings failed. Before that, and since a few weeks ago, I'm getting a high success rate from P. kondoi and P. rotundiflora. Seems only leaves made during certain times of the year are able to reproduce by leaf cuttings. I've started the D. auriculata seeds a few months ago and have had them outside the past few weeks. Today I noticed something has been digging into the pots. It could be birds or squirrels. Also, the newest germinated seeds of N. (ventricosa x ...) have both died probably from damping-off disease. The oldest one that germinated last November has produced about 9 leaves. It's still small with pitchers about 1 cm. tall. I have 4 seedlings of this hybrid still alive and they seem to be doing well. ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 92 09:01:09 PDT Subject: Re: CP and earthquake >>So, what's the earthquake report from those living in the San >>Francisco area? Bay Area in flames. Mendocino county falls into the ocean (drug war in that area called off). Martial law declared. Well, that's the news' perspective anyhow. But it has been a bit hairy. A 6.1 (?) in L.A. a week ago, then a 6.9 in Mendocino area (the '89 quake was 7.0-1), plus I caught an aftershock about 4:30am this Sunday. >> >>My D. falconeri has produced its first leaf. VERY tiny - about 1 cm >>including the petiole. Mine is finally coming up to. >> >>My Mexican Pings are successfully being propagated by leaf cuttings >>now. Since November, I had tried propagating them, but all the leaf >>cuttings failed. Before that, and since a few weeks ago, I'm getting >>a high success rate from P. kondoi and P. rotundiflora. Seems only >>leaves made during certain times of the year are able to reproduce by >>leaf cuttings. This is Peter D'Amatos observation also. As I recall he uses the smaller leaves which start to come up during the spring (?). I've taken further squirrel-protective (would that it could be anti-squirrel) measures. I've moved the pots on the ground and near the fence out to the middle of the yard, and I've wired the pots. One has wire across the top, and the others just have a wire fence about 10' tall around the edge. I don't think the little buggers will climb down inside, and this leaves space for the leaves to comeup. ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Mon, 27 Apr 92 18:36:10 PDT Subject: Re: Master Growlist We'll I went down to see Chuck Powell this weekend. Got some new stuff: GENUS Drosera burkeana [] #Chuck Powell 4/25/92 $6.00 coccicaulis (sp?) [] #Chuck Powell 4/25/92 $8.00 cuneifolia [] #Chuck Powell 4/25/92 $10.00 spathulata [] #Chuck Powell 4/25/92 $6.00 GENUS Pinguicula esseriana [] #Chuck Powell 4/25/92 $6.00 I got some good root cuttings off of the cuneifolia. I already had some P. esseriana, but my sister wanted some, so I bought a few more rosettes to break-up into individual leaf cuttings. They really look like they should root easily. Many of the leaves had already sent out secondary roots even while attached to the rosette. BTW, is it spathulata or spatulata - or are those two different plants? What is the story on Drosera Hybrids? Is there a list of chromosome numbers or other genetic info somewhere? Is there a rule of thumb as to which types will successfully cross & which won't. I've got plants flowering right now, and I wonder if it is worth trying to make some crosses. How about good *comprehensive* CP books: I've got Pietropaolo, Lecoufle, Slack, Rondeau & Schnell. Lowrie, vol. II is on order. Are there any major ones that I'm missing? About 10% of the plants I see on various lists are not listed or described in any of my books. It would be nice to have a one paragraph description of all known cp's. You could also pack alot of horticultural info into a concise table. Is there anything like this or am I dreaming??? On a different subject: I bought a light meter to check out my growing area. According to several books, (Pietropaolo & Lecoufle) most cp's like/need a light level from about 800 foot-candles to 1500 foot-candles. (Daylight is 10,000 ft-c) My terrarium uses *four* six-foot fluorescent shop lamps and only gets up to about 250 foot-candles. To get up to 1000, I have to put the light meter almost against the bulb. I don't think that my setup is atypical. Does anyone have any hints about getting better illumination? I think it is impossible to get these brightness levels from garden-variety fluorescent bulbs. Rick ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 92 20:04:20 MST XSubject: Re: Master Growlist >My D. falconeri has produced its first leaf. VERY tiny - about 1 cm including >the petiole. Don, just make sure the humidity is high enough. My first year of growing these I subjected them to too much cold, and not enough light. Grow one like you grow D. prolifera or D. schizandra and you may get better results. >What is the story on Drosera Hybrids? Is there a list of chromosome You can see from the list which plants can hybridize. Also look through Schnell. There are books which are just lists of chromosome counts---I've seen them. Ask Mr. Chamberland. You can also goof with chromosome #'s with colchicine, but only if you are insistent on giving yourself cancer. >How about good *comprehensive* CP books: I've got Pietropaolo, Lecoufle, >Slack, Rondeau & Schnell. Lowrie, vol. II is on order. Are there any If you've got both slacks, you're doing well. I would also get Jan Schlauers CP list----I consult it regularly (like for spellings of plants or locations in the wild or bogus synonyms). Also I think if you like Utrics at all you should get Taylor. Lloyd is moderately entertaining. >I don't think that my setup is atypical. Does anyone have any hints 1)I use 4---6 cool white bulbs, 12---20" from soil. 2)Reflectors are essential. Get reflective mylar from fish stores and coat ALL surfaces you don't use to look through. BAMR ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 92 20:14:03 MST XSubject: Re: Master Growlist Ahhh! My D. hamiltonii flowers. What a GORGEOUS flower! More than 3 cm across and deep purple red! Every bit as stunning as B. gigantea. Incredible! BAMR ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Tue, 28 Apr 92 12:49:45 PDT XSubject: Re: Master Growlist In message <9204280304.AA25334@as.arizona.edu> you write: Barry, > If you've got both slacks, you're doing well. I would also get Jan Schlauers > CP list----I consult it regularly (like for spellings of plants or locations > in the wild or bogus synonyms). Also I think if you like Utrics at all you > should get Taylor. Lloyd is moderately entertaining. I've only got one Slack. Is the other still in print? Also, how can I get Jan's list? ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 92 11:37:21 MST XSubject: Re: Master Growlist F.Y.I. Proper spelling is.... D. burmanni D. spatulata Reference is Jan's CP list. BAMR ################### From: ATLAS@JHUVMS.HCF.JHU.EDU Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1992 21:18 EST Subject: Pots, Slack Rick, The "first" Slack book (the one you probably already have) is "Carnivorous Plants," publshed in 1979. The second one was published in ~1986, titled "Carnivorous Plants and How to Grow Them," and was in print only for a few years, now out of print. As you might guess, the second one deals more with cultivation than the first. I am looking for a copy of the second one; if you find a cache of them, let me know. For now, I have to satisfy myself with the Library's copy, which I borrow occasionally. I called the publisher to see if they had any leftovers or returns, but they don't have any. Doug Atlas 4617 Schenley Rd. Baltimore, MD 21210 doug ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 92 21:19:42 EST Subject: New E-Mail address Anyway, just a quick message before I get back to wading through all of the 80 messages I've missed. Our first set of tuberous drosera has come out of summer dormancy - D. plancholli (spel? - I think it's now classified as a subspecies of macrantha). I'm very pleased as we only planted the seed last year, and we weren't sure that the seedlings had managed to produce a tuber before they were dried out. ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 92 09:06:21 PDT Subject: Bloomin' plants! It looks like my one year old Drosophyllum is starting an inflorescence. I could swear it wasn't there yesterday. Well, the plant is still not exactly huge, so I think I'll snip it off. D. spatulatha (?) is desperately trying to bloom, but I've cut off each of the 5 or so stalks it's trying to put up. Dionea are flowering their hearts out. BTW, what causes the bundle of flower pods to turn black and die before flowering? S. leucophylla put up one flower, well formed but smaller than the S. flava flower, and a small spider promptly took up residence in the flower bell. And finally, FINALLY, some of my utrics are starting to put up flower stalks. And the battle with aphids has become an ongoing thing. This is the single biggest drawback to growing outside, beyond even the squirrels in terms of pissing me off. I keep a bottle of poison spray near at hand nowadays. r. ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 92 19:43:19 MST XSubject: Re: Bloomin' plants! >I've only got one Slack. Is the other still in print? Also, how can I get >Jan's list? The newer one is out of print, although I've seen copies for sale from Marston Exotics (if you're willing to make the $200 order minimum). Jan's list is available by sending $20 US to his address: Jan Schlauer Zwischenstr. 11 6000 Frankfurt/Main 70 Germany It's about 90 pages long and very good. BAMR P.S. My U. monanthos flowered and keyed out easily to be correctly ID'd. Pretty little flower, similar to U. dichotoma but smaller in all respects. Only single-flowered, too. ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 92 21:00:00 EST Subject: Re: My new address. The plancholli's are starting to open their leaf buds now, but the other (more expensive) tuberous sundews haven't surfaced yet - neither have half of the tuberous ground orchids :-( It's early days yet, so I'll keep on waiting. John Taylor. Optics Laboratory, Deptartment of Applied Physics, Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology, Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA. ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 92 21:04:31 EST Subject: Re: The last great act of defiance. >A while back I was looking at some of last years pitchers >on my S. flava. I was trimming off the dead parts to keep >mold away. When I removed the top half of one old pitcher, >I found the remains of what seemed to be a honey bee. It >was face down in the pitcher of course, but in it's last >great act of defiance it had extended its' stinger :-). > > r. > Our pitchers don't often catch bees, but they have great success in trapping "Blowies" (Blowflies). Often you walk into the greenhouse and hear the frantic buzzing of their wings against the insides of the pitchers. And they're less hazardous when it comes to trimming the dead tops... John Taylor. Optics Lab. etc.etc. ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Fri, 1 May 92 17:36:10 MST XSubject: Re: The last great act of defiance. My D. peltata auriculata from the Brothers Taylor is flowering already. The sepals are glabrous and the petals barely flushed with colour---maybe almost pure white. In contrast, my peltata peltata `Kandos area pink flower' is producing pink flowers with distinctly pubescent and possibly dendiculate sepals. They certainly key out as being true! Oh Bros Taylor down under.... Any success with stem cuttings and B. gigantea? What is your method? Any best time for it? Both of the growth crowns of my biggest Byblis plant are in a long internode growth phase, and the plant is getting unmanageable (each branch is about 30 cm long). BAMR ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Sat, 2 May 92 13:45:26 +0000 Subject: Re: Byblis stem cuttings >My D. peltata auriculata from the Brothers Taylor is >flowering already. The sepals are glabrous and the petals barely >flushed with colour---maybe almost pure white. Is D. p. a. the new classification for D. auriculata? Ours haven't surfaced yet, but our erythorhiza has just hit the top of the soil, as have most of our Greenhood orchids. We're still waiting for the stolonifera too... Oh, yeah. The flowers are pretty pale, but they do definitely develop a pink tinge - maybe they need a bit more sun or time. >In contrast, my peltata peltata `Kandos area pink flower' is producing >pink flowers with distinctly pubescent and possibly dendiculate sepals. >They certainly key out as being true! [Searches frantically for "Plants of prey", and remembers that it is currently in Canberra, ACT - Rats!] Umm, yes, peltata should have hairy sepals. How does it compare in size with the auriculatas? The ones I've seen in the wild are only about 4-5" tall, at most, whereas auric. is often double this height. Which reminds me, I must plant out the peltata and auriculata (a red form, I hope) seeds I, er, obtained. >Oh Bros Taylor down under.... > >Any success with stem cuttings and B. gigantea? What is your method? >Any best time for it? Both of the growth crowns of my biggest Byblis plant >are in a long internode growth phase, and the plant is getting >unmanageable (each branch is about 30 cm long). No success with the one we tried (as the plant was beginning to die back - definitely NOT the time to try it). Our byblis's main shoot is about 50cm tall and the side branch is about 20-30cm now. We just stake them up to keep them from falling over and just let them grow. It's also a good idea to put them in some out-of-the-way corner. ################### From: Davin Date: Sat, 02 May 92 14:06:34 EDT Subject: D.zonaria wakes D.zonaria I got from Lowrie is wakening from dormancy. Hope I can provide the conditions for this one. I think I'm just going to leave it outside or on a windowsill and hope for the best. Amorphophallus is putting up its single leaf. Cute. About 2' tall and hasn't opened yet. S. leucophylla flower getting nice and maroon since I set it outside. U. calycifida 'Purple veins' is putting up a flower scape. >My D. peltata auriculata from the Brothers Taylor is >lowering already. The sepals are glabrous and the petals barely Really? Mine hasn't even broke from the ground rosette stage yet. Also, saw the Japanimation flick Akira last night. VERY good if you like animation. I think it's the #1 movie in Japan (non-animation included). Good stuff. ################### From: ATLAS@JHUVMS.HCF.JHU.EDU Date: Sat, 2 May 1992 19:27 EST Subject: Questions I've got a coupla CP questions that hopefully have easy answers: 1) Regarding the D. Auriculata seeds from the Bros. Taylor: I know this species is supposed to go dormant in the summer, with a dry medium. My seedlings are still quite small; should I just let the medium dry up, or wait for the seedlings to go dormant. Kind of a chicken/egg question... I'm surprised that barry said his have flowered, since my seedlings are growing VERY slowly. 2) I've got the N. Maxima cuttings from Davin. How long does it typically take to see new growth on Nepenthes cuttings? Oh, yeah, I noticed that one of the leaves is drying out and turning black...is it a good idea to cut out the black, dying part of the leaf? Is this sort of thing normal, or is it a bad sign? The cuttings are in a terrarium, with high humidity, and get misted at least twice a day. doug ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Sun, 3 May 92 21:58:37 +0000 Subject: Re: D. auriculata dormancy >1) Regarding the D. Auriculata seeds from the Bros. Taylor: I know this >species is supposed to go dormant in the summer, with a dry medium. My >seedlings are still quite small; should I just let the medium dry up, or >wait for the seedlings to go dormant. Kind of a chicken/egg question... >I'm surprised that barry said his have flowered, since my seedlings are >growing VERY slowly. Unless the seedlings are showing signs of dormancy (leaves yellowing/browning /dying) I wouldn't worry about trying to force them into dormancy yet. You can grow these plants into summer, but maybe consider keeping the soil a little drier than usual to reduce any chance of rotting the tubers (rather unlikely). As soon as they appear to be stopping grow or dying back, stop watering 'til next autumn. Alternatively, you could remove water now, which will encourage them to start dormancy, but if they're growing OK at the moment, why not let them? (There could be some risk in doing this, as the tubers may not have had time to fully develop). We did this (accidently) with our D. planchoniis, and they survived but I wouldn't like to try it again... P.S. Our whittakeris which are growing in our Cephalotus tray are doing very well and are now producing flower buds. Our Cephalotus isn't growing well at all :-( ################### From: Davin Date: Sun, 03 May 92 16:04:33 EDT Subject: Re: D. auriculata dormancy >unlikely). As soon as they appear to be stopping grow or dying back, stop >atering 'til next autumn. Hey, I thought this species were supposed to be easy because you could keep the medium moist yearround. Also, has anyone in N.America grown D.alpina? From what I hear, this is a tuberosity that grows in the mountains and hence its growth periods are reversed from normal tubers (active in summer & dormant in winter). This sounds good for N. America. ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Mon, 4 May 92 22:23:09 +0000 Subject: Re: D. auriculata dormancy >>unlikely). As soon as they appear to be stopping grow or dying back, stop >>atering 'til next autumn. > >Hey, I thought this species were supposed to be easy because you could keep >the medium moist yearround. No, like other tuberous sundews, it does need to dry out in summer. However, this species will tolerate wetter conditions during its growth phase than most others - hence it is easier to grow because it is less likely to rot on you... These plants are probably easier to grow than the humble VFT - at least they are for me. ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Mon, 4 May 92 19:38:35 MST XSubject: Re: D. auriculata dormancy >Is D. p. a. the new classification for D. auriculata? Ours haven't surfaced Yep, according to Schlauer's list. Incidentally, I mention this list from time to time. It is a compendium (about 90 pages) of information on what the current dogma is regarding the species names of plants. This information is a list of what the plants are published as, using botanical law. So while there are D. peltata and "D. auriculata" in common usage, in terms of what has been published in the appropriate literature it is D. peltata ssp. auriculata. >How does it compare in size with the auriculatas? The ones I've seen in the >wild are only about 4-5" tall, at most, whereas auric. is often double this >Also, saw the Japanimation flick Akira last night. VERY good if you like >animation. I think it's the #1 movie in Japan (non-animation included). Good >stuff. The missus and I enjoy animation. It's worth the rental? A lot of japanese animation is sore of Speed-racerish in appearance. Yuch. How's this? >How does it compare in size with the auriculatas? The ones I've seen in the >wild are only about 4-5" tall, at most, whereas auric. is often double this >I'm surprised that barry said his have flowered, since my seedlings are >growing VERY slowly. A few of you have acted surprised my plants have flowered. Well this ties into Mister Taylor's size question. I don't trust size stuff w.r.t. these plants because it is starting to get warm here. I have a working hypothesis that when it starts to get warm, the tuberous plants dash into dormancy, sometimes making a little erect growth first. Last summer my D. peltata germinated during the heat and responded to the high temperatures (which said, "dormancy dormancy") by making diminutive rosettes and erect stems. Then this fall others hatched and all winter grew into luscious big rosettes and tall stems. The aurics are smaller then the peltatas but again it's the summer sequence. It may also be relevant that my plants are in bright (but not full) sun, and get doused once a week with a foliar spray of label strength miracid. They love the miracid and the first miracid-treated tuberous drosera (a menziesii menziesii) produced a nice big tuber. Mike: You're the Nepenthes person, not me. But it sounds like you're light situation is pretty low. Considered adding reflectors? Mylar? >On a better note, my tuberous Drosera (mostly from seed) seem to have success- >fully gone dormant and set tubers! :) Also, I have a botanical question for you. I've been looking through this cool book called "Plant Form," and I've been trying to figure out just what do the thorns of citrus fruit represent. They aren't clearly stipules or petioles. WHAT ARE THEY? Driving me crazy ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Mon, 4 May 92 20:06:51 MST XSubject: Re: D. auriculata dormancy OH YES, now I remember. A note to you out there growing D. coccicaulis from Allen Lowrie---I know Rob M is. Are your plants still flowering? I have some plants from Gordon called "D. villosa `Orgelgeburge'" which are clearly not that plant. Well the latter is flowering BUT I FORGOT to make notes of what the flowers of the D. coccicaulis were like. Here's the colouration of the "villosa"---do they match? Petals pink---elliptical. I didn't note if they were notched. Ovary---fat and green Filaments---close together in cylindrical bundle, almost look like they're fused like a hibiscus. White. Anthers/pollen---yellow Style---about 6---7 (some forked near base). Branched at tips to produce 3-5 endpoints. Style/stigma pink. A very colourful flower. The petals weren't strongly reflexed like I recall on the coccicaulis, but it wasn't as clear a day. Vegetatively the two plants are very similar. BAMR P.S. Yay! Germination on my S. psitticina `anthocyanin free' seeds! P.P.S. Senor Taylor. I have a U. monanthos which has flowered and turned out to be the genuine article. Do you know if this plant is chilled in cultivation? It's a New Zealander from the Lewis pass area. I know this area gets cold, but I don't want to chill my plant if it might kill it. Cute little flower. ################### From: Davin Date: Tue, 05 May 92 14:43:37 EDT XSubject: Re: D. auriculata dormancy >P.S. Yay! Germination on my S. psitticina `anthocyanin free' seeds! Damn man! Where do you get these things? I've never even heard of anything being anthocyanin free besides S. purpurea. Amazing :-) ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Tue, 5 May 92 16:12:45 MST XSubject: Re: D. auriculata dormancy >>P.S. Yay! Germination on my S. psitticina `anthocyanin free' seeds! >Damn man! Where do you get these things? I've never even heard of anything >being anthocyanin free besides S. purpurea. Amazing :-) Network! Network! Network! Don't stay satisfied with just talking on the net. Write a note to CPers who write articles for CPN. Introduce yourself to CPers in your area. Network network network! The psitticina `anthocyanin free' came from John Hummer. There's also antho free forms of rubra jonesii, leucophylla (plant of my dreams), and rubra gulf. I don't have the leuc, but I have the other ones. BAMR P.S. I went into the G-house this a.m., and the U. longifolia flower had finally opened. It was nearly an out-of-the-body experience for me. This deep purple flower is 2.5 cm long, and 4 cm wide! Big yellow splotch edged in white on the spherical inflated palate bulge. Incredible. I've actually waited years to see this plant in flower. Stunning. ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) Date: Wed, 6 May 92 09:28:31 PDT XSubject: Re: D. auriculata dormancy >>>Also, saw the Japanimation flick Akira last night. VERY good if you like >>>animation. I think it's the #1 movie in Japan (non-animation included). Good >>>stuff. >> >>The missus and I enjoy animation. It's worth the rental? A lot of >>japanese animation is sore of Speed-racerish in appearance. Yuch. How's this? Noooooo comparison. This is an animated movie, and the animation is so good you can forget you're watching a movie. To fully appreciate this movie you need to get the laser disk which has digital sound, and listen to it through your stereo. Soundtrack is also out on CD. Another good japanimation is MegaZone Part 1 & 2. ################### From: dngess01@vlsi.ct.louisville.edu (Don) Date: Thu, 7 May 92 01:04:48 -0400 Subject: CP Temperature is supposed to go down to the mid-30's tonight! Hope none of my plants freeze. Nepenthes germination over the past 6 months: N. x (ventricosa x (bongo x carunculata)) 5 seedlings + 1 dead N. vieillardii (from Allen Lowrie) - "Type" - 3 seedlings, "red lower pitchers" - 4 seedlings N. tentaculata - 0 N. fusca - 0 N. x (mixta x maxima x maxima) - 0 N. x (ventricosa x bongso x inermis) - 0 N. x (ventricosa x inermis) - 1 alive + 1 dead Here's an e-mail letter I got a few days ago that may be of some interest: ************* ################### From: VAUGHANR@topaz.ucq.edu.au Date: Wed, 6 May 92 09:51 +1000 Subject: Drosera No, I hav'nt tried keeping carnivorous plants though I've always been fascinated by them. If there were any big enough to eat the neighbour's cat I'd get hooked. Drosera that are listed as occuring in this area are aureculata, binata, indica, peltata and spathulata, probably more to be found. I've seen them all at Blackdown tablelands national park, a 2000 ft high 100 sq ml plateau about 120 mls W of here. The plateau is isolated in a vast hot dry plain and therefore has some unique species. It is a cool, damp, old sandstone plateau with fairly large forest (trees over 100 ft in places). The soils are very poor, phosphorous so lacking that the few herbivores in the area suffer weak bones. Cattle were tried there but failed for the same reason. The drosera grow in damp cracks in the sandstone on the edges of shady (sometimes not so shady) creeks, indica likes it drier than the rest. As I remember the ph of the water was 4.8, stained brown/red by vegetation. Not a wide variety of bugs in water that acid. BTW it is said that peltata has a stunning agent in the nectar. Thats all I know and can find. Rob Vaughan. ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 92 18:43:00 MST XSubject: Re: Drosera Right now, through the lowrie orders and generous trading partners, I've several of the D. petiolaris plants doing well in my set-ups. I rarely take the time to feed my plants bugs anymore, because I just don't have the time (see below). But the other day I was tending my plants and a fly was buzzing me. I half-heartedly snatched at it with my tweezers and was surprised when I found I caught it. Well, I mushed it into the lamina of one of my D. falconeri. That was about 10 days ago. Today I looked at the falconeri and all the lamina had expanded in surface area noticeably (or so it seems). I didn't take before/after measurements, so I don't have numbers to back this, but this change appears striking to me. While I feed many of my Pings and all my tuberous Drosera with weekly foliar sprayings of full strength miracid, I am sticking with purely natural bug stuff for these petiolaris plants. Actually, falconeri and its hybrids are the only ones with lamina large enough to catch things larger than mosquitoes. Hey, here's a REALLY disgusting thought. Here's how you could prepare a CP safe fertilizer quickly. Go to the pet store and buy a few hundred live crickets (available as lizard food). I'd have to do the next part without my wife finding out....get the blender.... OHHHH SICK! I don't think I could do this. Even though the resulting paste (gag!) would be easy to spread (gag!) on plants, I'd never drink one of my wife's margaritas again. Excuse me while I run to the bathroom. BAMR I looked at my D. petiolaris complex plants last night carefully, trying to shrug thoughts of cricket puree from my mind (you can tell it didn't work). But I noticed that both my D. petiolaris and D. lanata are producing adventitious plantlets at their bases! What fun! While these plants are NOT "practically impossible to kill" shortly after they've been shipped, I'm finding they are very hardy once they've gotten over the trauma of relocation. Hey you experienced D. petiolaris growers... I was looking at Lowrie's field descriptions of this species, and also photographs in Kondo and other sources, and they are always found in very wet conditions. Has anyone out there grown D. petiolaris with the water level up as high as the soil level. I think this is the only species in the complex which grows as an emergent (out of standing H20). Hah! Last night one of my Genlisea seed pot opened, circumlatitudinally as Taylor described, and I harvested many seed which I *immediately* planted! This plant is easy! BAMR ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 92 15:50:18 PDT XSubject: Re: Drosera Sadly my plants are not looking real happy. I'm growing them all outside, and only my petiolaris aff. K. looks alive, and it's semi- dormant. The petiolaris X falconeri, and falconeri, are either dead or dormant. I can see what I thinka are some small green leaves in the center of the rosettes, but I'm color-blind and so could be wrong. I'm keeping the soil damp, and hoping for the best. At least they haven't rotted yet. On other fronts, the raccoons seem to be back. They tipped over my water jugs last night. I talked to a fellow in Arkansas, who informed me that 'coons don't actually wash their food, but they have no saliva glands, so they like to wet their food before eating it. There also seem to be less cats around the apt. complex now too.... r. ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 92 17:20:12 MST XSubject: Re: Drosera >Sadly my plants are not looking real happy. I'm growing them all >outside, and only my petiolaris aff. K. looks alive, and it's semi- >dormant. The petiolaris X falconeri, and falconeri, are either dead I wonder if you're keeping them too cool or not humid enough. These things are in my tropical terrarium (T about 90 F) and high humidity and are loving it. My aff. Kununurra are in the Greenhouse, subject to nighttime lows of about 60 F, and are just starting to come out of dormancy. They only grow in the G-house during the really warm temperatures. I believe the Taylors were good enough to send me some cherished weather data for Darwin and another place (Pt. Headland?) and was impressed by how hot it gets there. BAMR ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 92 23:03:44 +0000 Subject: Re: D. petiolaris >Sadly my plants are not looking real happy. I'm growing them all >outside, and only my petiolaris aff. K. looks alive, and it's semi- >dormant. The petiolaris X falconeri, and falconeri, are either dead Our petiolaris looks like it's definitely DEAD :-( Falconeri is still hanging in there... >temperatures. I believe the Taylors were good enough to send me some >cherished weather data for Darwin and another place (Pt. Headland?) and >was impressed by how hot it gets there. Be careful, that you aren't reading off the (all-time) maximum temps... But, even so, it can get pretty hot in the top-end - after all it is above or at least close to the Tropic of Capricorn. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [The Banshee] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au | (Department of Applied Physics) | | MOKING IS A HEALTH HAZARD. | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ################### From: Davin Date: Fri, 05 Jun 92 15:35:31 EDT XSubject: Re: D. petiolaris Hey guys, I'm back at school for the summer and have just gone through the 40+ messages on my account. Whew. Barry: >If you've looked at the cost of getting stuff overseas, this is really >retty good, since as I understand it it includes shipping, etc. etc etc. Would anyone be interested in ordering? (That french place) Here's the status on my stuff: The tuberosities have emerged! D.erythrorhyzia magna and D.zonaria both have rosettes about the size of a thumbnail. The D. bulbosa major has a rosette about 2-3 inches in diameter and has about 4 old flower stalks on it with some new ones coming on. I'm starting to like this plant. D.binata multifida putting up healthy looking leaves about 5-6" tall, but no extensive forking yet. Barry, how big till they start branching out? D.prolifera flowering. Unfortunetly it's in the terrarium and I haven't had much luck with harvesting seed in there. Don: the D.dielsiana you sent me is putting up a flower stalk. :) S. psittacina "Oke giant" keeps getting uprooted in the bog so I put a rock on it. S. flava 'Maxima-not' putting up its second leaf, but this one looks much smaller. Classes start on the 22nd so I'm going to investigate any bogs around here. Does anyone know if it's illegal in NY to collect sphagnum moss? I'm not talking about the stuff in the bog with cp in it. I mean the junk growing in the surrounding woods. Off to the muck... _______________________________________________________________________________ |DAVIN STEWART | "I AM THE LORAX AND I SPEAK FOR THE TREES." -DR.SEUSS | |CORNELL UNIVERSITY| <<>> | |_____________________________________________________________________________| ################### From: MJC Date: Fri, 05 Jun 92 16:00:03 MST XSubject: Re: D. petiolaris Is it legal to collect sphagnum? That bryophyte which covers most of the northern boreal portion of the northern hemisphere? It's legal if collecting ANYTHING is! I never got in trouble. 'Course you'll want to do it 'round 2:00 am, crawling quitely thru the muck wearing a full camouflage suit liberally draped with wet sphagnum. P.S. To be extra safe, be sure you have the permits which show that the sphagnum on your suit was raised from spores in cultivation! ;-) MJC ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 92 18:34:13 MST XSubject: Re: D. petiolaris Not too surprisingly, the albino seedling of S. psitticina died before I wasted any money on glucose. Oh well. And with some regrets, because I bet an albino plant really would be a neat thing to see! >Would anyone be interested in ordering? (That french place) Toying with it. We'd have to get a hefty order though, to overcome the minimum required. I'd only want to spend about 60-150 FF, I think. >D.binata multifida putting up healthy looking leaves about 5-6" tall, but no >extensive forking yet. Barry, how big till they start branching out? In my experience, once a D. binata tries to flower it has reached the max forking it will do in those circumstances. Contrary to popular belief, D. binata multifida is noted for its overall red colour and that it branches to 2--8 tips. The "extrema" form is the one that branches regularly even more. The two extrema clones I have, one from Paul McMillan and one from Christoph Belanger, branch to 20 tips. The plain multifida clone I have branches 2--8 (only up to 6, and usually only 4) and came from Mistuh Maharajh. Noticed something interesting in my D. peltata auriculata `N.Z.' I got from the ICPS seedbank. The plants are flowering, and many of the larger plants are branching from the leaf axils. I looked through Lowrie Vol I which said the Western Australian form doesn't branch like this, but Erickson says the plant can. The branching is akin to that in D. gigantea in that it involves leaves placed low on the stems as well as near to the top of the stem. I wonder if this is the kind of plant which is called "multi-growth." None of my other peltata's are doing this. Also there are a few plants which have crimson red lamina. All in all, a very strange and heterogenous bunch of plants. I'll see if I can separate them out in a few months when they go dormant. I'd like to separate the tubers of the red plants, especially. >D.prolifera flowering. Unfortunetly it's in the terrarium and I haven't had >much luck with harvesting seed in there. The few times I've obtained prolifera seed it never germinated. Don't be misled by dried up sepal and petal bits! >Does anyone know if it's illegal in NY to collect sphagnum moss? I'm not I wouldn't be surprised. It might fall under some general class of "wildflowers" or "natural resource" requiring some kind of permit. I'm not joking. So, I would practice a certain degree of stealth. Also, collect it from places there's plenty of it so no areas are unduly impacted. I was talking with John Hummer recently and he said (Mister Maharajh take note since you're planning a Florida trip), picking any wildflowers is against the law, even roadside or plants in ditches! And they're not hesitating to prosecute. I collected some plants when I was in the Jersey Pine Barrens (U. striata, U. gibba, U. juncea, D. rotundifolia, intermedia, filiformis filiformis), but never from the preserves---I found the plants growing behind a 24-hour grocery and the like. But even then I was careful. Scared of the Law ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 92 18:41:31 MST XSubject: Re: D. petiolaris This is what I get for not reading my mail before sending it off.... >Noticed something interesting in my D. peltata auriculata `N.Z.' I got from >the Western Australian form doesn't branch like this, but Erickson says Don't get me wrong...I know that N.Z. isn't near Western Australia! And my comments about picking wildflowers being against the law, even on the roadsides, is specifically referring to within Florida. And does anyone know just where the hell is the "Kandos area"? }}:-( ################### From: mjc Date: Fri, 05 Jun 92 18:37:27 MST XSubject: Re: D. petiolaris Albino plants may be kept alive by grafting onto green photosynthetic plants. Those red-top-cacti you see in nurseries are actually mutant chlorophyll- albino plants which have been grafted onto a green base which keeps the pair alive. The bright red color is due to betalain pigments which naturally exist in the normal plants, but the red color is masked out to a dark green when chlorophyll is present. There are a variety of grafted chlorophyll-mutant cacti on the market, but I don't think I've seen examples of such grafts in any other plant family. Grafting a sarracenia would be difficult, real hit-or-miss, but perhaps worth a try? Too late from what I hear tho. Albino seedlings are not too too uncommon, I've seen albino corn in lab experiments. It's just that the seedlings never last long. MJC ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 92 18:54:19 MST XSubject: Re: D. petiolaris >a try? Too late from what I hear tho. Albino seedlings are not too too >uncommon, I've seen albino corn in lab experiments. It's just that the Pretty uncommon with Sarrs, though. I've seen, in my short career, many many hundreds of Sarr seedlings. This is the first albino I've ever noticed. Oh! A new Byblis comes up in a pot. This is B. liniflora aff. "Robust, straggling, Darwin." Never had this plant come up before. It required firing, and came up shortly after I'd fired the pot. BAMR ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 92 21:26:19 +0000 Subject: Re: branching aurics >Noticed something interesting in my D. peltata auriculata `N.Z.' I got from >the ICPS seedbank. The plants are flowering, and many of the larger >plants are branching from the leaf axils. I looked through Lowrie Vol >I which said the Western Australian form doesn't branch like this, but >Erickson says the plant can. The branching is akin to that in D. >gigantea in that it involves leaves placed low on the stems as well as >near to the top of the stem. I wonder if this is the kind of plant >which is called "multi-growth." None of my other peltata's are doing >this. Our "Mornington Peninsula" plants do this too. Maybe they should redesignate this plant as a species again, since this is another different between it and the "true" peltata. >Also there are a few plants which have crimson red lamina. All in all, a very >strange and heterogenous bunch of plants. I'll see if I can separate them >out in a few months when they go dormant. I'd like to separate the tubers of >the red plants, especially. I'm just about to plant some seed of a nice bright-red form of auriculata - I would have done it today, except I ran out of propagating sand (silica type). All I've got left is the pea-sized stuff left from the old fishtank. I hope it retains its colouration in cultivation... >>Noticed something interesting in my D. peltata auriculata `N.Z.' I got from >>the Western Australian form doesn't branch like this, but Erickson says > >Don't get me wrong...I know that N.Z. isn't near Western Australia! But it is (sort of) near SE Oz - ie. me. It's possible that there are two separate forms/species - Western and Eastern - caused by different evolutionary paths occuring in the two areas (separated by the Nullabor region of Australia). I think D. macrantha also has different forms in these regions (there are few species common to the two regions, and only a handful of Drosera species in SE Australia anyway :-( ). >And does anyone know just where the hell is the "Kandos area"? Well, the only reference to Kandos I have found in the limited maps I've got on hand is a town in New South Wales, NW of Sydney and on the western side (if only just) of The Great Dividing Range. However, I think the Kandos you're after is actually in W.A. or N.T. ################### From: Davin Date: Sun, 07 Jun 92 14:18:23 EDT XSubject: Re: branching aurics Hey guys, Well, I'm off to check the topographical maps for bogs. A friend of mine used to go bogging often around here. I hope I can get his old maps. Anybody know what's in flower around now? Any orchids? Oh yeah. When I went home I left my Drosophyllum outside cause I couldn't fit it into the car. Well, it died. Sniff. Nothing left of the once noble seedling. BTW, who was it that into cactus and succulents? I've got some lithops that aren't doing well and was wondering if I could get some advice. These are the plants that look like minature buttocks. I like to call them Desert Ass (or Norman) >;-) TTFN ################### From: Michael Date: Sun, 07 Jun 92 11:42:08 MST XSubject: Re: branching aurics The cactus freak is me, Michael Chamberland, asmjc@asuacad I'm a cactus horticulturist at the Desert Botanical Garden in Phoenix. i've never heard of "Lithops" :-) (just kiddin!) ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 92 13:45:21 PDT Subject: Re: branching aurics I just dug up my D. stolonifera rupicola tuber, after letting hte soil dry out. Indeed, it wasn't as dry down deep as I expected, but the plant was done with it's cycle. The tuber, which started about the size of a small pea, is now the size of a, oh, well it's about the size of the fingernail on my fourth finger. It has more than doubled in size, although I didn't find any baby tubers. r. ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 92 21:23:04 +0000 Subject: D. prostratoscaposa Our "local" CP supplier has some tuberous sundews in now. Amongst these are the usual D. erythorhizas (ssp. squamosa looks nice, but it doesn't grow any bigger than the standard form, so I decided to leave it. Oh well), stoloniferas and lowrieis. Also on sale was rosulata (I think) and prostratoscaposa. The latter I'm sure Barry or someone was talking about a couple of months back. I'm pretty sure I had a copy of Lowrie's description of this plant, but I can't find it :-( Does anyone have any info. about this plant - eg. size flowers, special features? BFN ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 92 16:19:07 MST XSubject: Re: D. prostratoscaposa >and lowrieis. Also on sale was rosulata (I think) and prostratoscaposa. The >latter I'm sure Barry or someone was talking about a couple of months back. >I'm pretty sure I had a copy of Lowrie's description of this plant, but I >can't find it :-( Does anyone have any info. about this plant - eg. size >flowers, special features? It was written up in CPN recently. Also known as D. sp. Hammersley. All I remember about the plant right now is that it had orbicular leaves but the interesting thing about it is the scapes are indeed prostrate. White flowers. BAMR ################### From: dngess01@vlsi.ct.louisville.edu (Don) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 92 20:27:32 -0400 Subject: CP Lithops are not true cacti, but are succulents, native to South Africa. They are fairly common. Their common name is "living stones". All my CP are doing fine. I have germination from all three kinds of Nepenthes I bought from Allen Lowrie. I have six seedlings of N. vieillardii (red lower leaves) so I should have extra to trade if anyone wants to get in line. Robert, do you have germination from N. lowii yet? One of Michael's unnamed pygmy drosera is flowering. Does anyone know what it might be? The plant sort of looks like D. pygmaea but the petioles are a little thicker - slightly more thicker near the center of the plant. The flower stalks have about 8 flower buds. There are five white petals, with three bright red spots in the center (styles?), and smaller orange spots in pairs near each red spot (stigmas?). My two D. falconeri are doing fine. There was no "dew" on the glands, so I stuck each into a baggie. After a few days, they look noticably more perky and they are producing a small amount of dew on the leaves. The plants are making leaves with the wide lamina similar to the photos seen in CPN. My indoor greenhouse has humidity of 85+%, but I noticed my D. prolifera didn't look too happy and didn't produce much dew on their leaves till I stuck these in baggies too. I repotted D. madagascariensis a little while ago. There's about three dozen plants so I should have some to trade after they get a little bigger. I have a lot of new plantlets of P. colimensis that I grew from leaf cuttings too. Barry, what kind of Miracid do you use? Is this 30-10-10? I mentioned the CP listserve to the orchid group last night. There may be new people joining us soon. ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 92 17:32:18 PDT Subject: Re: CP >>I have germination from all three kinds of Nepenthes I bought from Allen >>Lowrie. I have six seedlings of N. vieillardii (red lower leaves) so I >>should have extra to trade if anyone wants to get in line. Robert, do you >>have germination from N. lowii yet? Nope. My previous success at Nepenthes germination was I think the result of using an aquarium heater in a bottle of water inside my fishtank terrarium. High heat and humidity. I've since removed that because of lack of space and getting tired of filling the bottle up, so my heat and humidity are down. >> >>My two D. falconeri are doing fine. There was no "dew" on the glands, so I >>stuck each into a baggie. After a few days, they look noticably more >>perky and they are producing a small amount of dew on the leaves. The plants >>are making leaves with the wide lamina similar to the photos seen in CPN. >>My indoor greenhouse has humidity of 85+%, but I noticed my D. prolifera >>didn't look too happy and didn't produce much dew on their leaves till >>I stuck these in baggies too. I've had mixed results with D. petiolaris. IMHO, the ONLY media to grow this in is pure live spaghnum. Then it will do well under lights or outside. I have both, and the flower stalk plantlet I have inside is much less vigorous than the plant I have outside. I do think that air movement is important, and at one time entertained the idea of getting a very small fan hooked up to a solar cell in my terrarium. I was hoping that my lights would power the solar cell. Hmmm. I guess I could make money by selling a small fan/thermostat assemblage that would stick on the inside of terrariums... Hmmm.... r, ################### From: Michael Date: Mon, 08 Jun 92 18:05:11 MST Subject: Re: CP I have purchased one of those hats-with-solar-fan. I thought it was a good idea for all the outdoor work I do here in Arizona. It takes a good deal of light to start that fan a-whizzin. I really don't think the air circulation it would provide would do diddly-squat for you terrarium, the fan is really too small. MJC ################### From: dngess01@vlsi.ct.louisville.edu (Don) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 92 23:41:10 -0400 Subject: CP The closest ID I can come up with for the unnamed pygmy drosera is D. nitidula. This is using the descriptions in the book 'Plants of Prey'. I had two 10-inch pots full of D. auriculata seedlings. A neighbor cat ruined one of pots by digging into the soil and shitting in it. My Sarracenia are all in full sun. The pitchers S. alata produce seem flimsy and they easily fall over in a rainstorm. How long do tuberous drosera normally remain dormant? My D. stolonifera compacta look like they are starting to go dormant. These are small seedlings about the size of a pygmy drosera only six months old. The book 'CP of the World' says dormancy lasts six months. CPN says dormancy lasts during the summer months - implying dormancy is only three months. The soil in the pot hasn't been watered for about three weeks, but with the high humidity around here, the soil still feels damp. ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 21:21:57 +0000 Subject: Re: Tuberous dormancy >How long do tuberous drosera normally remain dormant? My D. stolonifera >compacta look like they are starting to go dormant. These are small seedlings >about the size of a pygmy drosera only six months old. The book 'CP of the >World' says dormancy lasts six months. CPN says dormancy lasts during the >summer months - implying dormancy is only three months. The soil in the >pot hasn't been watered for about three weeks, but with the high humidity >around here, the soil still feels damp. Well, normally they go into dormancy in late spring/early summer, and we start rewatering the (dry) pots in late autumn (trans: fall) or early winter. Of course, if they start coming up earlier, you'd begin watering then. As soon as the plants start to yellow or blacken, withdraw all water as they are entering dormancy and the risk of rotting the tubers is fairly high. BTW, I wouldn't advise trying to dig up the tubers - they are very small at this early stage of life, and normally take a year or two to grow to a decent size. If you want to pot them up into a larger pot, include all whole clump of the old soil in the center of your new pot, and add new mix around and under it. That way you can be sure you haven't lost any tubers (unless they've grown out of the drainage holes, which has happened to a few of our native ground orchids...) ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 17:59:39 MST XSubject: Re: Tuberous dormancy >Barry, what kind of Miracid do you use? Is this 30-10-10? Don: As far as I know, Miracid only comes in one blend. But I'll look on the label for any designations. > I've had mixed results with D. petiolaris. IMHO, the ONLY media to > grow this in is pure live spaghnum. Then it will do well under lights > or outside. I have both, and the flower stalk plantlet I have inside > is much less vigorous than the plant I have outside. Well, Mistuh Allen, I'll not tell this to my plants which are doing fine in peat, peat/sand, and peat/perlite mixes! >I have purchased one of those hats-with-solar-fan. I thought it was a >good idea for all the outdoor work I do here in Arizona. It takes a good Mike! You mean you got rid of the cap with the moose-antlers sticking out that you used to wear everywhere? >My Sarracenia are all in full sun. The pitchers S. alata produce seem flimsy >and they easily fall over in a rainstorm. This is one of the reasons I tend not to like this species as much as the other ones. They do this even when grown in full sun. BAMR ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 92 20:03:02 PDT Subject: Re: >> >>> I've had mixed results with D. petiolaris. IMHO, the ONLY media to >>> grow this in is pure live spaghnum. Then it will do well under lights >>> or outside. I have both, and the flower stalk plantlet I have inside >>> is much less vigorous than the plant I have outside. >> >>Well, Mistuh Allen, I'll not tell this to my plants which are doing fine >>in peat, peat/sand, and peat/perlite mixes! Ohhhhhh, woooooooeee is me. I've blown it again. Time to slit my wrists and bleed all over my plants digestive glands as my last act... :-(. ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Tue, 09 Jun 92 21:28:19 PDT Subject: Misc. CP ramblings On a whim, I recently sent in a request to a used booksearch service to find me any CP related books. In the last month they have found copies of the following: Allen Swenson - "Cultivating Carnivorous Plants", Doubleday 1977 Randall Schwartz - "Carnivorous Plants", 1974 Charles Darwin - "Insectivorous Plants", 1875 (First Edition) So far I've sprung for the first two copies (still yet to be delivered), but the third was too pricey ($315.00)... Seems like a good way to build up a CP library, though. I also just got a copy of "Carnivorous Plants of Australia Vol II." What does Vol. I cover? Has Vol. III been published yet? ---------------- Work is progressing on my greenhouse. So far I've finished the foundation, the framing, and the potting benches. It is 6'x8'. I'm using a corrugated polyethylene plastic sheeting that is shaped like regular fiberglass, but is supposed to last longer. My measurements show that the plastic has a higher light transmission than the fiberglass (85% vs 15%). I'm hoping this will compensate for my shady backyard. In a few days, I will finally be able to *lock* the squirrels and blue-jays away from my plants! ---------------- My N. mirabilis x 'Ted Paine' from Robert Allen is now pitchering nicely. It has bright red pitchers compared to the pure green 'Thai' mirabilis. The upper half of the 'Ted Paine' pitcher is divided into a distinct cylindrical region that is more brightly colored than the green bottom section. I wish I could figure out what makes my U. subulata go cleistagamous. It was so nice when it was blooming for a few weeks. Now all I get is buds that never open. ---------------- On an unrelated vein; here's the stats on the listserv usage to date: Subscriber Address: Number of Messages: ------------------- ------------------- BARRY@AS.ARIZONA.EDU 48 ROBERT.ALLEN@ENG.SUN.COM 36 RPHJT@MINYOS.XX.RMIT.OZ.AU 21 XKU@CORNELLA.CIT.CORNELL.EDU 20 DNGESS01@VLSI.CT.LOUISVILLE.EDU 17 WALKER@HPL-CUTT.HPL.HP.COM 14 ATLAS@JHUVMS.HCF.JHU.EDU 10 ASMJC@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU 6 ANDERS@DIT.LTH.SE 4 T044660@UHCCMVS.BITNET 3 HSBROWN@ARNOLD.PRINCETON.EDU 1 MAHARAJ@MCMASTER.BITNET 0 REZAC@KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU 0 WB@MTQUA.ATT.COM 0 Total number of messages on file: 182 Now we can tell who does all the talking around here :-)... Keep up the interesting discussions! ---------------- Finally, I'll be on vacation to Romania from June 18 to July 8. So far the listserv program has been pretty self-running, but I'll try get one of our resident gurus to oversee it while I'm gone. BTW, are there any interesting CP in Romania? I'll have one uncommitted week with a Euro-rail pass, so I could potentially get to any interesting sites in most of Europe. Are there any CP nurseries worth visiting? -- Rick ################### From: ATLAS@JHUVMS.HCF.JHU.EDU Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1992 10:15 EST Subject: N Maxima Strikes! One of the N Maxima cuttings I got from Davin has struck...there is a new leaf poking out from the sphagnum. How long does it usually take for a cutting to have a well-established root system? Anyone have a copy of Nova's "Deathtrap" show? Or know where I can get a copy? My sarrs are all outside in the sun and putting up lots of pitchers. The S. Flavas are especially good at catching prey; many pitchers are more than half full, and some are getting "indigestion" (dead spots). My two dionaea have decided to put up flower stalks. Isn't mid-june kind of late for this? The plants seem to be quite healthy. I snipped off the scapes, although I was tempted to leave them on; I have never seen a vft flower in real life. doug ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 08:41:12 PDT Subject: Re: Misc. CP ramblings >>On a whim, I recently sent in a request to a used booksearch service >>to find me any CP related books. In the last month they have found >>copies of the following: >> >> Allen Swenson - "Cultivating Carnivorous Plants", Doubleday 1977 >> Randall Schwartz - "Carnivorous Plants", 1974 >> Charles Darwin - "Insectivorous Plants", 1875 (First Edition) >> >>So far I've sprung for the first two copies (still yet to be delivered), >>but the third was too pricey ($315.00)... Seems like a good way to build >>up a CP library, though. I'd be REAL careful about the Swenson book. If this is the one I'm thinking of, which I started out with, it has problems with the cultivation info, or something. I just remember that after I had been growing a while I didn't like it. >> >>In a few days, I will finally be able to *lock* the squirrels and blue-jays >>away from my plants! Thank god! I just had a fern and my S. leuc. dug up a bit. The buggers somehow moved the wire cover off the soil of the leuc. A pity I don't live in France, where one can purchase firearms silencers over the counter.... >> >>---------------- >> >>My N. mirabilis x 'Ted Paine' from Robert Allen is now pitchering nicely. >>It has bright red pitchers compared to the pure green 'Thai' mirabilis. >>The upper half of the 'Ted Paine' pitcher is divided into a distinct >>cylindrical region that is more brightly colored than the green bottom >>section. Note that I got this plant from a generous gift by Michael Chamberland, and passed it along. >Anyone have a copy of Nova's "Deathtrap" show? Or know where I can get >a copy? I bought a copy at my local Tower Video store a while back. I was surprised to see it. I'll look at the box tonight for an address. r. ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 92 17:35:09 MST XSubject: Re: Misc. CP ramblings >I also just got a copy of "Carnivorous Plants of Australia Vol II." >What does Vol. I cover? Has Vol. III been published yet? Vol i=tuberous Western Australian Drosera. >I wish I could figure out what makes my U. subulata go cleistagamous. It >was so nice when it was blooming for a few weeks. Now all I get is buds >that never open. I have noticed that the vast majority of chasmogamous U. subulata inflorescences are produced by plants growing in live Sphagnum. There are occasional exceptions to this, however. >Total number of messages on file: 182 >Now we can tell who does all the talking around here :-)... Yeah yeah yeah. Obviously I score highly on both quality *and* quantity! BAMR ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 92 21:57:55 +0000 Subject: Re: D. petiolaris >>Well, Mistuh Allen, I'll not tell this to my plants which are doing fine >>in peat, peat/sand, and peat/perlite mixes! > > Ohhhhhh, woooooooeee is me. I've blown it again. Time to slit > my wrists and bleed all over my plants digestive glands as my > last act... :-(. >s Well, our petiolaris was growing in peat/perlite (+ maybe a bit of sand) and it DIED. D. falconerii looks like its suffering from peer group pressure and wants to follow suit. :-( It's always the expensive plants that die - maybe if the price of U. subulata went up it would too (please, please!) ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 92 22:06:55 +0000 Subject: cleisto/chasmogamous U. subulata >>I wish I could figure out what makes my U. subulata go cleistagamous. It >>was so nice when it was blooming for a few weeks. Now all I get is buds >>that never open. > >I have noticed that the vast majority of chasmogamous U. subulata >inflorescences are produced by plants growing in live Sphagnum. There are >occasional exceptions to this, however. Well, I have all my U. subulatas growing in peat/sand (whether I wanted them or not ;-) ) and they seldom produce any real flowers - only whitish cleistogamous ones. They sometimes produce yellow real flowers when young and then revert to t'others when older. I certainly wish they'd flower properly more often, as they are attractive plants, even if they are noxious weeds in my greenhouse... ################### From: Davin Date: Thu, 11 Jun 92 10:18:09 EDT Subject: Blabber >Our "local" CP supplier has some tuberous sundews in now. Amongst >these are he usual D. erythorhizas (ssp. squamosa looks nice, but it >doesn't grow any bigger than the standard form, so I decided to leave >it. Oh well), stolonifera Arggg, and I have to bleed out my eyes to get ahold of these plants. >ne of the N Maxima cuttings I got from Davin has struck...there is a new leaf >oking out from the sphagnum. How long does it usually take for a cutting to >ave a well-established root system? I'm impressed. I've always heard that it takes around a year for nepenthes to strike. Sorry, I don't know about the well-established root system, though. Here's the daily update on the plants: U.calycidifa 'Purple veins' from Barry is putting up another flower scape. If I'm lucky, I might have some seed to trade. BTW, I really like the looks of this plant. Nice big leaves (about 1") with purple veins that are almost succulent .. The pygmy sundews are always putting up flower scapes. I have them in one pot, so I hope they don't cross pollinate. :( Anybody want some D.capensis seed? (Just kidding :-) Here's a thought: how's the CPN seedbank doing? I would imagine there would be some more seed in there now. Anybody have the monthly update? ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Thu, 11 Jun 92 10:20:28 PDT XSubject: Re: Blabber In message <9206111436.AA08135@hplms2.hpl.hp.com> Davin writes: > U.calycidifa 'Purple veins' from Barry is putting up another flower scape. If > I'm lucky, I might have some seed to trade. BTW, I really like the looks of > this plant. Nice big leaves (about 1") with purple veins that are almost > succulent Must be that time of year. My little patch of U. calycifida from Barry has only just recovered from shipment, and is already putting up two scapes... Unfortunately, they'll probably flower while I'm in Europe :-(. > Anybody want some D.capensis seed? (Just kidding :-) D. capensis was one of my first CP. I kind of went wild with some exponential propagation attempts... Anybody want 200 D. capensis *plants*? Actually, I do have a capensis question: Do the 'alba', 'wide-leaf' and 'giant' forms grow true from seed? Do crosses between the forms come out roughly intermediate, or are certain characteristics dominant? -- Rick Walker ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 92 10:21:06 PDT Subject: Re: Blabber >>Actually, I do have a capensis question: Do the 'alba', 'wide-leaf' and >>'giant' forms grow true from seed? Do crosses between the forms come out >>roughly intermediate, or are certain characteristics dominant? According to a kid at the last BACPS meeting, the giant form does grow true from seed. He had the plants to prove it too. I'm letting mine flower, so I'll let you know. r. ################### From: Earl Nishiguchi (808) 245-8274 Date: Thu, 11 Jun 92 11:23 HST Subject: STILL HERE Thought I'd let you all know that I'm still here, reading all you mail with interest. Was very busy with work the last month...year end stuff with budgets,graduation, reports, etc. So I'm not the only one with dying plants now and then without seemingly no reason. I have sundews (don't know what specie) growing all over with other plants...I guess the seeds just spread all over. We finally made our travel plans ... at the end of July, I'll be going to a conference in Chicago. Then we (my family) plan to drive around Illinois, then Indiana and Ohio for about a week then back to Chicago and fly to DC. Then spend about a week driving to places we missed two years ago...Delaware, West Virginia, and New Jersey. Any suggestions or comments.... We're kind of afraid about going to certain places with all the news about racial conflicts.... Earl ################### From: dngess01@vlsi.ct.louisville.edu (Don) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 92 21:08:42 -0400 XSubject: Re: STILL HERE I ordered the magazine 'Nature Malaysiana' back in February. This was the nepenthes issue. It arrived today! The article is very good and includes 80 photos of nepenthes, most are of the plants growing in the wild. It is mentioned some of the photos were from slides provided by Cliff Dodd. Also, I bought two issues. Does anyone want to buy my extra one? I have lots of B. liniflora seedlings sprouting from old seeds. When the B. liniflora plants were producing seeds, I saved some and scattered the rest on the soil surface in the same pot. The original plants have since died and the seeds never sprouted, so earlier this year I stuck a piece of U. longifolia in the same pot and sat it outside. A few weeks ago, I noticed the old Byblis seeds sprouting - these seeds were planted 6 months to a year ago. My D. aliciae is flowering - these have quite large flowers as far as Drosera flowers go. I may be able to cross it soon with D. dielsiana or D. capillaris. I have quite a few D. dielsiana plants, grown from seed from the CPN seed bank. A few look quite unique from the rest - one has completely red leaves while those plants growing in the same pot nearby all look greener. My D. collinsiae has produced seeds outside. When it was flowing indoors, the plant wouldn't produce seeds. The wind may have something to do with fertilizing the flowers in this species. No germination yet from N. fusca or N. tentaculata. Does anybody have and extra of these seedlings to trade? Does anybody know if the CPN seed bank has any interesting species available? ################### From: ithaca!amber!phoebe@uunet.UU.NET (Phoebe Couch) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 92 12:59:22 PDT Subject: carnivorous plants/seeds/bulbs wanted Currently I have 2 venus fly traps, a sick looking pitcher plant and a tiny sundew plant (in terrariums), I don't know the latin names. I can only find venus fly traps and pitcher plants in nurseries. I would appreciate pointers on where to buy more carnivorous plants in California or mail order, particularly Darlingtonias or any exotic varieties. Thanks, P. ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 92 14:06:14 PDT Subject: Re: carnivorous plants/seeds/bulbs wanted >>Currently I have 2 venus fly traps, a sick looking pitcher plant and a tiny >>sundew plant (in terrariums), I don't know the latin names. >>I can only find venus fly traps and pitcher plants in nurseries. >>I would appreciate pointers on where to buy more carnivorous plants in >>California or mail order, particularly Darlingtonias or any exotic varieties. How about a name/intro "P."? Below is the list of sources which I have. It includes every mail order place I know about, and many which I have not ordered from. For a start, I'd try any of the following: Chuck Powell, Peter Pauls, Carloina Exotic Gardens, Orgels, Southwest Carnivores, and Lees. Others on the list know various of these people personally, and may have further comment. In order to buy somewhat intelligently, you need to know the latin names, in order to distinguish between species. Check out local libraries for some books on carnivorous plants, in order to see what you might want to buy in photos. If you have terrariums only, you might want to go with tropical plants, particularly sundews, as many of them are easy to grow if you follow basic water/light/heat rules. North American species can be grown fairly easily too, although they have winter dormancy requirements, and I prefer to grow them outdoors. I grow quite a number of North American plants in a bog garden in a 30 qt. tupperware container, and so far they are happy in my backyard, in the SF Bay Area (aside fromthe squirrels which would love to get in the wire cage I have and dig them up). I'd bet that if you called or wrote some of the places I suggest above, you could get recommendations. You should also consider subscrbing to the Carnivorous Plant Newsletter. US subs. cost $15.00 per year. Send subscriptions to International Carnivorous Plant Society, Fullerton Arboretum, California State University, Fullerton CA, 92634. Robert ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 92 19:58:48 +0000 Subject: Re: CPs/seeds/etc. >>Currently I have 2 venus fly traps, a sick looking pitcher plant and a tiny >>sundew plant (in terrariums), I don't know the latin names. >>I can only find venus fly traps and pitcher plants in nurseries. >>I would appreciate pointers on where to buy more carnivorous plants in >>California or mail order, particularly Darlingtonias or any exotic >>varieties. > Below is the list of sources which I have. It includes every > mail order place I know about, and many which I have not ordered > from. ... Welcome Phoebe! Another CP supplier you could add to the list is: Fred Howell ("Carnivorous and Unusual Seeds" (& Plants too) ) 3 Normandy Avenue, Para Hills, S.A., 5096 AUSTRALIA Naturally, the seeds would be the only thing worth considering, although dormant Drosera (sundew) tubers may be suitable for mail-order to the states... BFN ################### From: Davin Date: Sat, 13 Jun 92 18:00:23 EDT Subject: Re: CPs/seeds/etc. Damn. Checked the D.bulbosa major 'seed' pods today for seeds. Zip. Squat. A waste of energy by the plant. Oh well. ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 92 10:27:27 PDT Subject: Re: Seed Order?? >>Anybody want some Utricularia longifolia? Mine had eaten all of the soil in >>its pot and was running out of nutrients even with fertilizer applied. I took >>a hunk for myself, but I still have plently to go around. I've often wondered how this works. Surely the plants don't really EAT the soil? So, where does it go? ################### From: REZAC@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1992 15:12 CDT Subject: Re: Seed Order?? BTW, in case it hasn't been mentioned in this group _Carnivorous Plants: Care and Cultivation_ is a nice reference (though not comprehensive enough for a primary reference) and a very good grower's manual. It does mention growing cephalotus from seed, if I remember correctly Lecoufle (the author) describes the process as "difficult". If you just want plants Peter Pauls has them for 14.95 + shipping, they may be available elsewhere at a lower price. If you import plants you do need a Phytosanitary aka Import permit and possibly a CITES certificate, e.g. Nepenthes hybrids. If you are importing seed in small (non-commercial) quantity, no documentation is necessary in the US. And please consider this my introductory post, I'll be reading everything and dropping in occasional words or questionable value now and then. I've been growing CP for a little over 5 years now, although I haven't experimented with many new plants until recently. *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=* CHARLES REZAC * bitnet: REZAC@UKANVAX internet: rezac@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu The University of Kansas -- Academic Computing Lawrence, KS 66045 *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=* ################### From: mjc Date: Mon, 15 Jun 92 19:04:38 MST Subject: Re: Seed Order?? Where does the utric soil go? Well, you forget that unlike most angiosperminos plants, Utricularias really do have the potential to "eat" with their roots. Those little bladders act like billions and billions of little tiny mouths, and as the soil particles move about in the water currents, the bladders catch and consume ("eat" if you will) those aforementioned soil particulates. After all, soil contains minerals, and minerals are good for plants, so quid pro quo, e pluribus unim: therfore Utric roots really do eat dirt. ...Or I suppose the stuff could just wash out the pot... Ain't it great to have a REAL botanist around!? MJC ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 92 14:50:28 MST XSubject: Re: Seed Order?? >U.calycifida 'Purple veins' from Barry is putting up another flower scape. If >I'm lucky, I might have some seed to trade. BTW, I really like the looks of Seed from this plant is very hard to get to germinate. I've got just a single seedling from `purple-veins' and three from `spotted flower,' and that's from three seasons of extensive flowering and seed production. I'm growing these from seed to see if they breed true. I get most of my trading stock from making divisions. The plant needs repotting periodically anyway. >Here's a thought: how's the CPN seedbank doing? I would imagine there would be >some more seed in there now. Anybody have the monthly update? I just got back from L.A., where I met with Gordon Snelling and also stopped off at Fullerton. The seedbank pickin's are still mighty thin, sorry to say. Nothing there that interested me. >Actually, I do have a capensis question: Do the 'alba', 'wide-leaf' and >'giant' forms grow true from seed? Do crosses between the forms come out Rick, I've grown the forms narrow-leaf, wide-leaf, and alba from seed and they all breed true. > We finally made our travel plans ... at the end of July, I'll > be going to a conference in Chicago. Then we (my family) plan Field Museum of Natural History in downtown Chicago. Well worth it. (My old hometown) >Barry, what were all the shipping and certificate costs when you ordered from >Lowrie? Davin, I've been naughty in the past and usually sent cash in the mail. But if you want to get an international bank order, it will cost you some. It costs me about $15 to get one, which is what I do if I order more than about $150 worth of plants. I don't recall Allen's shipping charges, but I think they were something around $5 AU. >Where does the utric soil go? Well, you forget that unlike most >angiosperminos plants, Utricularias really do have the potential to >"eat" with their roots. Those little bladders act like billions and >billions of little tiny mouths, and as the soil particles move about in >the water currents, the bladders catch and consume ("eat" if you will) >those aforementioned soil particulates. After all, Well Mike, getting beyond the few X 10^9 bladders you quote here, and the bit that the bladders are part of Utrics "roots," this is an interesting claim. But I don't think it holds water (a dangerous metaphor). After all, my captive plants aren't subject to "water currents," and also when I upend a pot to look at the bladders they are not filled with detritus---they are generally white and transparent. But what to do with the observation that Utrics seem to alter their soil as they grow through them? I've seen this myself---I plant them in fresh peat or peat/sand, and when I have to repot the Utrics the stuff I take them out of is more like a porridgey goo. My other CP do not do this to their soil anywhere as quickly. My guess is chemical assimilation through the stolons or rhizoids, but not through the bladders. Take that, you cactus biologist! I got back from LA, having seen Gordon Snelling's collection, and did a bit of trading with him. Also saw the nice Ping collection at Fullerton. Leo Song was gone on vacation but I poked around a bit. A high point was seeing the La Brea Tar pits. Right in the middle of an urban area is a park with these...pits! Fences around them so you can't get too close. Look like big puddles of asphalt with sticks and leaves in them. I got there on a Monday, and the associated museum was closed, as was a pit excavated for observation. I was bummed and got (I thought fitting) a sinking feeling. But all was fixed when I found something great! They have a parking lot in the park, and for some geological reason the tarpit asphalt decided it should start bubbling up right in the parking lot! It had been gooing out for some time, and had made a little 12" tall conical glump, looking like a close-up shot from some dreadful acne commercial. Occasionally a bubble would form, inflate, then *pop!* They had a 3' fence around it, which I stepped over onto the gravel near this thing to take a close-up photo. It took a while to get good lighting, and meter right on the black sludge. Then I chatted for a moment with some Mexican tourists (how do you say "tar" in spanish?). When I decided to leave I discovered, much to my horror and extreme delight, that the "gravel" I had been standing on was a thin layer over some tar, and I had sunk about an inch into the gooey mess! My new white tennis shoes! The comedy continued when I had to get some money and stopped off at a swanky bank. Marble and gold everywhere. While the tar casing on my shoes was not coming off, when I walked around in the lobby on the fancy marble floors, trying to look cool, my adhesive shoes kept going CREASSKK! SQULEASKK! SMEAAASK! Very embarrasing. BAMR ################### From: REZAC@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1992 05:56 CDT Subject: Heliamphora source Does anyone know of a source for Heliamphora minor (or H. anything) in the United States? Failing that, does anyone know of a nursery anywhere that offers these plants for sale? TIA, *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=* CHARLES REZAC * bitnet: REZAC@UKANVAX internet: rezac@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu The University of Kansas -- Academic Computing Lawrence, KS 66045 *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=* ################### From: ATLAS@JHUVMS.HCF.JHU.EDU Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1992 08:13 EST Subject: Re: Heliamphora source Charles, The only catalog I've seen listing Heliamphora for sale is Marie's Orchids and CP. I have their price list from 1.5 years ago, which lists: H Minor $50 H Nutans $75 H Heterodoxa $75 (both highland and lowland varieties) Since my catalog is quite old, I suggest you write for their current one. I *think* their address was in the list that Rob posted the other day. If not, I can post it. is that since there are relatively few Heliamphoras out there, most are traded between collectors rather than sold by nurseries. Does anyone know if there are organized or unorganized CP trips/tours of the NJ Pine Barrens? I am interested in going there to check things out, but have no idea where to go exactly. doug ################### From: Scott Brown Date: Wed, 17 Jun 92 13:32:23 EDT Subject: How does Dionaea kill? I recently put all of my CP outside for the summer to feast on mosquitoes etc. On the first day, one of my Dionaea half captured a fairly large flying insect. This bug is half in and half out of the trap and is still alive 3 days after the capture. I know this because he is still moving a leg around. This brings me to the question. How does Dionaea kill? Is it by physically crushing the bug or is it a chemical thing (ie. does it digest the bug alive!). In the case of this unfortunate insect, I assume he will starve to death. Any ideas? Scott ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 92 10:41:32 PDT Subject: Re: How does Dionaea kill? >>I recently put all of my CP outside for the summer to >>feast on mosquitoes etc. On the first day, one of my >>Dionaea half captured a fairly large flying insect. >>This bug is half in and half out of the trap and is >>still alive 3 days after the capture. I know this because >>he is still moving a leg around. This brings me to the >>question. How does Dionaea kill? Is it by physically >>crushing the bug or is it a chemical thing (ie. does it >>digest the bug alive!). In the case of this unfortunate >>insect, I assume he will starve to death. My knowledge, which is old, is that the plant relies on the stimulation of the bug moving to secrete digestive enzymes, so the bug should be digested eventually. My plants caught a small slug (!) this way, and as I recall the bug was half eaten eventually. I don't know if the movement theory is stil valid, or if the plants rely on a chemical reaction with bug tissue [:-)] to determine if they should digest or not. ################### From: mjc Date: Wed, 17 Jun 92 16:37:06 MST XSubject: Re: How does Dionaea kill? (PS., just to assure you I'm not a total ignoramus, I really WAS joking about Utricularia eating dirt (geophagia). Forgive me for I have deceived! Still, the chemical-absorbtion doesn't strike me right either. Remeber that any kind of "soil" will "go away" from the root ball of any rootbound plant. You just unpot it and find nothing but roots. Much of that soil was just organic matter, and plants don't absorb carbon thru the roots, they fix it from CO2 in the air. So my best guess for now is that the soil gets pushed upwards in the pot as the root-mass grows, and eventually most of it gets washed from the top, out the drainage, or real compacted in the middle. Barry, did you see Leo's collection at the U. of Fullerton, or did you see the exhibit at the Fullerton Arboretum? I've seen the former, but not the latter. -Michael ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 92 17:18:22 MST XSubject: Re: How does Dionaea kill? >The only catalog I've seen listing Heliamphora for sale is Marie's Orchids and >CP. I have their price list from 1.5 years ago, which lists: Also I know you can get them from Senor Lecoufle in France for comparable prices. >(PS., just to assure you I'm not a total ignoramus, I really WAS joking about >Utricularia eating dirt (geophagia). Forgive me for I have deceived! You know, I believed you, and I left the console scratching my head about you! I'm glad my faith in you has been restored! >Still, the chemical-absorbtion doesn't strike me right either. Remeber that >any kind of "soil" will "go away" from the root ball of any rootbound plant. I will formally backtrack on my statements that the soil gets processed by the Utrics, now that I think about it. You see, when the Utrics have to get repotted, the soil is pretty old and may have just naturally decayed a bit more and so degraded by no fault of the Utrics. >Barry, did you see Leo's collection at the U. of Fullerton, or did you see >the exhibit at the Fullerton Arboretum? I've seen the former, but not the >latter. Miguel, I saw both. I actually thought Leo's stuff was at the Arboretum so I went there first. Shortly after arriving I discovered, by talking to someone planting annuals, that Leo was at the other G-houses. So I hurried there after a few minutes. The Arboretum is nice, as they go. I prefer gardens with more emphasis on interesting plants, not just the usual exhibits on water concious plantings, etc. BAMR ################### From: ATLAS@JHUVMS.HCF.JHU.EDU Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1992 17:24 EST Subject: Longwood Gardens CP Well, I went to Longwood gardens (about 20 mi west of Philadelphia) yesterday, and checked out their CP. Nothing too terribly exciting. They had 10 Nepenthes in "orchid-type" wooden boxes hanging from one greenhouse. About 5 were hybrids, the nonhybrids were Rafflesiana, Mirabilis, Maxima, Alata, and, and, well, I forgot the last one. Maybe there were only 4 nonhybrids. All were in good shape with muchos pitchers. They also had a D binata, a couple of Sarr hybrids (looked like flava X purp, but werent labeled), a few vft's, and what appeared to be some D Capensis, but with a rather prostrate rosette. In the gift shop at longwood, they sell VFT's at $5 a pop, and it looks like their supplier is a field collector. Grr!! Speaking of Nepenthes, my N. Hookeriana which I got from Mike a year ago has a problem. It is still producing new leaves, but all but the 2 newest leaves have brown tips with no pitchers. And the browining is spreading down the leaf, so that the 5th and 6th oldest leaves are about 20% dead. The only thing that has changed about their culture is that I gave them a *weak* fertilizer spray a month ago. Could tha be the cause?? Also, since the plant is in a terrarium near a window, the changing seasons give it a little less light in summer. Help!! I want pitchers, damnit, not dead leaf tips!!! BTW, the N hookeriana is in a peat-based compost, while my other Nepenthes ae , are, rather, in sphagnum. Someone asked about germination of the N Tentaculata and Fusca seed from the seed bank. I got ZERO germination on he Tent, but have 3 small fusca seedlings. Check back in 6 months, I might be willing to send one or two out if they are doing well. doug ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 92 14:42:07 MST XSubject: Re: Longwood Gardens CP >In the gift shop at longwood, they sell VFT's at $5 a pop, and it looks like >their supplier is a field collector. >Grr!! Doug, don't let this get to you. It's not productive. What you should do (and do it loud!) is complain to the gift shop. Ask to see the manager. Ask to file a complaint. BE LOUD! I always am! BAMR ################### From: Scott Brown Date: Mon, 22 Jun 92 17:49:29 EDT XSubject: Re: Longwood Gardens CP > >In the gift shop at longwood, they sell VFT's at $5 a pop, and it looks like > >their supplier is a field collector. > >Grr!! I too was at Longwood recently. I was disappointed in their Nepenthes and am sure that on a previous trip they had more interesting ones. I didn't see any VFT in the gift shop, maybe they are new. Just how can one tell if the VFT are field collected? Scott ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Ninja Squirrel Master) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 92 17:01:03 PDT Subject: butterwort stuff I have just got some of my warmth-loving plants setup back in my office at work, since they weren't doing so well outside, even though the night temps were mostly about 60F. In so doing, I moved my P. agnata, which has not put out many leaves, or any large leaves, although it is finally pushing up a flower stalk. On the other hand, my P. maranensis `G' from Peter D'Amato has been doing quite well outside, and put up several nice flower stalks. My understanding is that both species are from Mexico/ South America, and like warm. I wonder why the two plants are acting so differently? My agnata X gypsicola also hasn't done much. Hmmmm.. r. ################### From: dngess01@vlsi.ct.louisville.edu (Don) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 00:10:47 -0400 Subject: CP I'm almost certain seeds don't need a phytosanitary certificate if bought from another country. Is anyone going to buy seeds from Allen Lowrie again? I'll take some more Nepenthes seeds if anyone wants to get together for another group-buy. My U. pubescense is in flower. Not very exciting - just a small white flower, long spur. Sort of like U. livida but with a longer spur. Is this species one of those that flowers only rarely? I have some D. peltata that I've allowed the soil to dry. The plants went dormant in February. How do I bring the plants back from dormancy? I've heard that you just sit and wait for the plants to start growing by themselves. The soil looks quite dry and crusty for the plants to come up through the hard soil. Should I put it out in the rain after five or six months of dormancy or what? There was a CPN article about Longwood Gardens several years ago. It mentioned that a lot of their CP collection were not on display to the public, but you can make a request to see it. ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 20:59:07 +0000 Subject: Re: Drosera peltata reviving >I have some D. peltata that I've allowed the soil to dry. The plants went >dormant in February. How do I bring the plants back from dormancy? I've >heard that you just sit and wait for the plants to start growing by >themselves. The soil looks quite dry and crusty for the plants to >come up through the hard soil. Should I put it out in the rain after >five or six months of dormancy or what? I would start watering the pot if it is very late autumn/fall or early winter. You'll probably need to give the pot a good soaking for the first time, and then just water the pot often enough to keep it moist until the plants emerge, when they can probably tolerate more water. ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 92 14:38:58 MST XSubject: Re: Drosera peltata reviving One comment about the ICPS seedbank. I've had a pretty spotty record with them in getting germinations. You don't know how old the seeds are, for example. But for $1.00 a pop you can't go wrong! >My U. pubescense is in flower. Not very exciting - just a small white >flower, long spur. Sort of like U. livida but with a longer spur. Is >this species one of those that flowers only rarely? My U. pubescens flowers every spring and rarely other times. How observant to notice the similarity to U. livida. They are very closely related (along with arenaria and others). If I grow mine too hot they flower with a pale or whitish flower, but if you have them cooler they are lilac or purple. Obviously some T-dependent chemical reactions here. I don't mean to sound condescending on saying you were observant. I am really impressed you saw a similarity. I actually don't see it in the flower too much. But it really is visible in the bladder morph. As a general rule with non-yellow Utrics in cultivation, the hotter and stuffier and humid you grow them, the paler the flowers. As an interesting twist on this theme, I have some U. monanthos that produced a single purple flower, but as the summer continues and the terrarium it is in gets hotter, the very long-lived flower is bleaching out and now it is almost pure white! BAMR ################### From: al423@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Don Burden) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 92 20:30:54 -0400 XSubject: Re: Drosera peltata reviving I found this fellow on the net and sent him some e-mail to join our group. ======================================================================== > From "Kamarudin Mat Salleh" Well I guess, I'll may as well introduce myself too. I had never done this on the Net. I am from Malaysia, currently towards the end of my Ph.D program in Botany at Michigan State. Graduating from National University of Malaysia [then in Jalan Pantai, Kuala Lumpur], I was sent to help setting up the Sabah Campus of the same university in 1982 before move on to Aberdeen Scotland in 1983 for my M.Sc. Returning back to Sabah to Malaysia in 1985, I was the Curator of UKMS Herbarium in Kota KInabalu and never miss great opportunity exploring this forest. I am working on Rafflesia, the largest flower in the world [Have you seen my book "Rafflesia: Magnificent flower of Sabah" ?]. I would like to get in touch with my former Peace Corp lecturers if they subscribe to this group. Cheers. Kamarudin --- K. Mat-Salleh SnailMail : EMail: Matsalle@msu.Bitnet Beal-Darlington Herbarium or Matsalle@herbarium.bpp.msu.edu Dept. Botany & Plant Pathology Michigan State University Voice: (517) 355-4696 E. Lansing, MI 48824-1312 Fax: (517) 353-1926 ======================================================================== ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 92 20:30:54 -0400 XSubject: Re: Drosera peltata reviving News over the phone... Gordon survived this last earthquake attack, although an aquarium sloshed a few inches of H2O onto the livingroom floor. My wife was with me in Tucson for the weekend so she didn't get any action. (er, from the earthquakes, that is) And I will let you choose which of the three scenarios below you think is accurate.... 1)Michael Chamberland called me last night and confided that he doesn't like anyone on this listserve anymore and feels far superior to us all and so he won't be posting anymore. 2)Mike called me last night and we got into a debate regarding the relative merits of the families Lentibulariaceae (esp. Utricularia) vs. Cactaceae. He was so thoroughly trounced by my superior arguments, subtle reasoning, and general good looks he retreated back into his cactus prop-houses hissing and making tiny clawing motions in the air. Out of wounded pride he will not be posting to our listserve any longer. 3)Mike called me last night and said his account at A.S.U. has finally been terminated. So unfortunately he will not be posting any longer. He hopes in the future to obtain alternate computer access. I personally lean towards reality #2. BAMR ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 92 14:04:19 PDT Subject: :-( I think it's almost certain that my D. falconeri from Allen Lowrie have died due to fungus. They were dormant, but now there is no sign of any green in the center. My falconeri X petiolaris is still alive (at least one of the two), as is my baby petiolaris aff. K. My seedling petiolaris may or may not be alive. Lately all my drosera are looking a bit depressed. I don't know whether it's lack of humidity, bad water, old soil, or what, but they just aren't as happy looking. I've moved some of my plants back under lights to try and revive them. r. ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 92 20:29:46 +0000 Subject: Re: Dying petiolaris complex > I think it's almost certain that my D. falconeri > from Allen Lowrie have died due to fungus. They Join the club ;-) :-( Both our petiolaris and falconerii have died recently. Petiolaris browned and went "furry/fluffy" - falconerii simply vanished! I wouldn't have been too worried if only they weren't the only specimens we had, and the fact they were purchased at considerable expensive (relatively). Nepenthes alata has survived an attack by a caterpiller (rats! ;-)), but Drosera adelae has lost just about every rosette of leaves on the top of the pot. There's a few small plantlets still growing through the drainage holes and resurfacing now. I think I'll convert the terrarium back into a fishtank.. (BTW the D. pet. and falc. weren't growing in there). ################### From: Davin Date: Tue, 30 Jun 92 17:06:38 EDT Subject: Re: seed order >Davin, >did you find out if a certificate was needed to order the seeds? I >think I am probably interested in some if the cost doesn't get too high >with certificates etc. > >Scott No, I never did find out for certain. Um, someone did say that he was almost certain that small orders of seed wouldn't require certificates. So, I'm going to assume that they aren't needed and send off an order pretty soon. You're welcome to join in on the order, but I can't guarantee anything. Shipping is about $4-5, but I'll pay for that. I recently got the catalog from John Hummer. Holy cats! Lots of hard to find plants. Like S. leycophylla 'alba' and heterphyllous forms of others. S. psittacina 'anthocyanin-free' was not available :( Went in search of a bog over the weekend. Waded through cold water, rubbed elbows with thorn-bushes, and encountered stinging nettles, but I did find the bog. Or the remains. It was in the later stages of life and didn't have carnivores. :-( Oh well. ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 92 14:51:47 MST Subject: Hummer I recommend vigorously John Hummer's plants. They are deliciously well documented and he's very reliable. I should mention, though, that his leucophylla `alba' plant is not quite the genuine article. It does have some red colouration. I suggest calling him on the telephone before making an order just to make sure his stuff is available. He's a good sort. BAMR ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 92 21:36:05 +0000 Subject: nepenthes > >This is a tangent to your recent posting on the cp mailing list: I'm >just now branching out to growing Nepenthes and am finding species >plants hard to locate here. Is there anyone is Australia or on the >Pacific Rim who sells Nepenthes seed? I am obviously interested in >seed from the more colourful species, but welcome the chance to grow >anything interesting from seed. > >Any information is appreciated. > >Chas. I'm afraid I don't know of any places which sell Nepenthes seed, although there is/was a place in Queensland which did sell only Nepenthes plants, so they may also have seed. I'll try and locate the address for you. Meanwhile, maybe one of the other CPers can help you? There's been a large CP sellers list appearing now and again - was it your's Scott? Sorry I can't be of more assistance. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [The Banshee] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au | (Department of Applied Physics) | | MOKING IS A HEALTH HAZARD. | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ################### From: ithaca!amber!phoebe@uunet.UU.NET (Phoebe Couch) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 92 15:10:07 PDT Subject: Books and seeds I just received 1 of the CP books that I ordered. Carnivorous plants - Care and Cultivation -Marc Lecoufle Good starter book with Beautiful color plates. I also ordered only the book by Adrian Slack, I don't know how good that is. All the books that were on the mail order seed post from England were in the "IN PRINT" catalog, and they were promised to arrive within 6-8 weeks. So why pay postage and handling overseas. Anyway, Davin, Looking thru past messages, there were 2 lists: One from South West Seeds, Doug and Vivi Rowland and one from Southwest Seed catalog. Are you planning to order from both or just one? It does seem that South West Seeds has everything that Southwest Seed catalog has. I didn't see any Nepenthes on the list. After seeing the pictures, I REALLY want a Nepenthes Alata. Anyway, I have a revised list of plants I want to order. Have to wait til after July 11 to see if I can get instant gratification for some of them (Adult plants instead of seeds, now instead of 6-8 weeks). When do you plan to make the order? P. p.s. I am thinking about building a bog garden in the backyard, has anyone tried that? ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 92 20:54:26 +0000 Subject: Re: Books and Bog Gardens >I just received 1 of the CP books that I ordered. >Carnivorous plants - Care and Cultivation -Marc Lecoufle >Good starter book with Beautiful color plates. >I also ordered only the book by Adrian Slack, I don't know how good that is. I have both of Adrian Slack's books - both are very good. "Carnivorous Plants" gives good descriptions of the more common species and fairly detailed growing instructions. "Insect-Eating Plants & How to Grow Them" gives much more brief descriptions and instructions, but makes up for it by covering many species and giving lots of color photographs. >p.s. I am thinking about building a bog garden in the backyard, > has anyone tried that? We built an island-type bog in a small 3x3' (or so) fibreglass "tub" (which was actually a mould used in the construction of the "new" Parliment House in Canberra! One of our uncles picked up a few for plant tubs.) The plants grow pretty well in our climate, but perhaps the best advice I could give is that you must not underestimate the amount of peat moss it takes to fill a bog! Also, it would be better to make a much larger (but fairly shallow - say 12" deep) rather than a small, deep one like ours - it will look much more impressive. Adrian Slack details a few designs and construction methods in his second book (IEP&HTGT). Good Luck! ################### From: Davin Date: Fri, 03 Jul 92 09:52:46 EDT Subject: Re: Books and seeds About the bog garden, I've made some on a smaller scale because I'm in college and need to move around a lot. Here's what I've done: Got some plastic tubs (2'x1'x1.5') and filled them with peat moss and perlite 2:1. I put it outside after the last danger of frost and things seem to be going well. In the beginning of the season, a nice touch would be to get some live sphagnum, dice it, and sprinkle it on the bog. I did that one season and by fall had a nice green mat. One word of advice would be to install some chicken wire over the bog so that squirrels, raccoons, cats, etc. can't get in and have fun. _______________________________________________________________________________ |DAVIN STEWART | "I AM THE LORAX AND I SPEAK FOR THE TREES." -DR.SEUSS | |CORNELL UNIVERSITY| <<>> | |_____________________________________________________________________________| ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 92 12:17:02 PST XSubject: Re: Books and seeds Hey ya'll. I'm back from L.A. again. I hear the listserve is down. Well, until it's back I guess we're all patching together distribution lists. L.A. was surprisingly enjoyable again. You know, LA isn't as bad a place as I thought it would be. Sure wouldn't live there, though. This time Bridgett and I visited the L.A. arboretum and the Huntington Library/Gallery/botanical gardens. Both get my recommendations as places to visit. We only spent about 4 hours at the first place because the smog was so bad Bridgett and I started to get soreness in our lungs! Then the coughing started. I've never had to leave someplace because of atmospheric pollution before. Very nasty. Also spent the 4th with Gordon and Lori Snelling, but it was a social trip with very little CP-time. We played with their tortoises a lot. A high point was a day spent with Leo Song at Fullerton. He minds several large greenhouses and lath-houses, about half of which are dedicated to CP. It's pretty funny---his dress is shorts. No shoes, socks, or shirt. Just a pair of shorts. After spending the day talking and repotting etc with him I can under- stand why (hot and muggy). He'd occasionally hose himself off (with R-O water!) so he's wet most of the time. When he saw I found this funny, he showed me a "real shower" he'd take under the emergency shower, near a storage facility for sulfuric acid. He'd stand on a grating and a column of water would descend, pretty much making him disappear. Very nice. Some interesting sights: Saw the dentate form of Dionaea. Interesting. He says it breeds true. Was surprised to see how dry he grows U. alpina, but it was doing very well. But on the whole, very few Utrics. He has many Sarrs, one of the nicest things was a large collection of prospering purp purp heteros. Not a whole lot of Drosera (but an incredible D. regia), but he has some very nice D. gigantea. He showed me something *very* interesting. He took his D. gigantea plant and bent it over another pot of medium. Keeping it in near contact with the soil of the other pot, many dropper roots formed and he produced many new tubers this way. Something to bear in mind as my gigantea is about 6" tall now. A lovely collection of Nepenthes. My favorite were his specimens which had black pitchers, or pitchers with black reticulation. He is trying to develop some Nepenthes (and Sarr) hybrids which suit his particular criteria for excellence. His pitchers of X dyeriana were huge and almost woody in their sturdiness (one of his goals). Also saw merilliana---pitchers as big as and also shaped the same as a fresh roll of toilet paper. Also saw a fine large specimen of bicalcarata (which he calls "el fango"), and many clones of ventricosa. I was impressed by the many forms of the latter species, and he agreed, saying he wasn't quite sure what should be considered pure ventricosa anymore! He verified Mike's story that the distal portion of the Nepenthes tendril is often hollow and inflated, and could house ants. I asked him the perennial question: what causes those coloured spots on Nepenthes leaves. He gave me a surprising answer---yes, they can be indications of disease or necrosis, but often they are extrafloral nectaries! What a surprise! Perhaps to lure additional prey? Also he said N ampullaria X bicalcarata can often carry the fangs of the parent. Lastly, I saw his many Mexican Pings. Most were labelled just things like "P. sp. site #1, plant #2." And they looked a lot alike to my eyes. But he had one which was absolutely stunning. Deep blue (not purple) flowers, and a fascinating arrangement of petals. He said the plant's resting bud is underground! Lovely plant. We verified that some of my Mexican pings are misnamed (like a "hirtiflora"). I must have been running a fever, but I wasn't interesting in collecting any plants while I was there, so I turned down any offers. But if you ever visit L.A., call Leo and stop by. BAMR ################### From: Davin Date: Fri, 10 Jul 92 09:22:43 PDT XSubject: Re: Books and seeds Barry, Was Leo growing any Heliamphora or Darlingtonia? I think I remember reading somewhere about him and Helia's. Interesting that his tuberous D. are growing now. I thought winter was best in the North for these guys. >Saw the dentate form of Dionaea. Interesting. He says it breeds true. Ummmm, what is dentate? ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 92 10:34:42 PST XSubject: Re: Books and seeds >Was Leo growing any Heliamphora or Darlingtonia? I think I remember reading He had one plant which was doing only so-so since it was getting over a chemical treatment for bugs. >>Saw the dentate form of Dionaea. Interesting. He says it breeds true. >Ummmm, what is dentate? The marginal spines on the traps were reduced to only a mm or so long, each triangular shaped. Gave the margin a saw-toothed appearance. Several weeks ago I got some clumps of suspended aquatic Utrics to grow (kill, more likely), including U. inflata, radiata, and "vulgaris." (Not too sure on the ID of that last one yet). Through my own foolishness I let the water table go down a bit on them, so they were thinking about drying out (oops!). Well I rescued them and found that, as reported in the literature, in response to conditions of drought U. inflata produces tubers. It does this by increasing the internode distance between leaves on the stolon, and decreasing successive leaf size, until the stolon tapers to a single tendril. This tendril elongates to about 4+ cm and produces what seems to be an amorphous lump of tissue at the distal end. This tuber is only about 1.5 mm long and is white. Hmm. BAMR P.S. Also noticed that my Cephalotus is now producing flowers with 6 sepals, 12 anthers (as opposed to original 7 and 14) ################### From: drosera@gnu.ai.mit.edu Date: Sun, 12 Jul 92 23:15:16 PDT Subject: CP >I got a plant order in yesterday which, in spite of being sent AIR MAIL, >arrived with nearly all of the plants heat damaged. Nepenthes wilted, >butterworts brown and slimy, and sarracenia and cephalotus looking more than >a little distressed. The nepenthes were really only barely rooted cuttings; >they look hopeless. > Don't give up hope! Give them a good soaking for several hours and they may come around. Expect some casualties, but if they're still green, they have some chance of living. The roots were probably damaged on many of the plants if they were dried out completely. Treat them like fresh unrooted cuttings or divisions and give them extra humidity and keep them out of direct sunlight. Keep the soil slightly moist and don't overwater. > > and 2) Can anyone recommend a good source of species Nepenthes? The seed bank has Nepenthes seed periodically. I've had good success with Nep seed from Allen Lowrie. A good, cheap source for Nepenthes is Bruce Bednar. He doesn't have any of the rare 'exotic' types. I gave a list of the Neps Glasshouse Works sells a few months ago. They have N. spectabilis and N. stenophylla for $30 each - these are two species that are fairly rare. They also have N. boschiana for $15. This is considered to be a form of N. alata - someone in the group mentioned that they were looking for an N. alata. > >P.S. - How much are dues for the ICPS and if I join now can I start with the >June issue of CPN? Dues are $15/year for USA, $20/year for foreign members. There have been no issues yet for 1992. The first one will probably be a double issue and will come out soon. Starting a subscription in the middle of the year gets you all issues published for that year up to the most recent one. >A lovely collection of Nepenthes. My favorite were his specimens which had >black pitchers, or pitchers with black reticulation. What's this? Barry finally admits to liking Nepenthes! Has Leo mentioned when the new CPN will come out? Does he still have an active computer account? Robert, sorry to here about the death of your D. falconeri. Does anyone know what the parents of N. x Ted Payne are? My D. falconeri are looking great. They have 12 mature leaves, lamina 15 mm. across. The lamina on newest leaves fold backwards, completely double for a few days before straightening out. I'm trying one plant in a pot of mostly sphagnum and another in a mixture of vermiculite, perlite, and peat moss. I read somewhere they grow in nature in basic soils. The one in sphagnum is bigger, but the other one has more dew on the leaves and looks a little happier. My D. linearis seedling (one plant) is growing great outdoors. This species is not too tough to grow despite rumors to the contrary. It has just started growing leaves a couple centimeters long that look somewhat like mature leaves - erect with a linear lamina. I haven't heard yet from the fellow I wrote to that worked at the Kota Kinabalu herbarium. The person who was looking for the CP film might try looking for it at their local library. There's lots of nature films of this sort in our library. You also might look for the episode of Nature that features a look at Mt. kinabalu. ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng (rja@sun.com) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 92 10:14:21 PDT Subject: PA plant sale review Let's see if this gets through... I was a volunteer at the Palo Alto Junior Museums' plant sale and show last Saturday. Peter D'Amato, Chuck Powell, and Carl Wong were present selling CP. Each of them plus Geoff Wong had put some of their prize winning plants on display. I spent 3 hours on my feet answering questions of curious visitors. You would be surprised how many people out there grow CP! I'm getting the impression that local organisations can do a lot to increase CP interest. Since some CP are endangered, this couldn't hurt. In my talks I stressed that many of the CP shown were native only to the US, and that the flytrap and cobra lilly were native to only very small parts of the US. People seemed quite impressed that these plants weren't as common as one might think. I didn't buy anything, since I have many a number of the species which were forsale, and my room is limited. Prices ran $5-15.00 for potted plants. There were some very nice specimen plants on display. Peter brought his S. minor "Giant", which is about 2.5' tall. Geoff Wong brought many of his beautiful plants, including a very nice D. regia. Geoff also brought his prize-winning display of Genlisea. He has taken one of those two piece, clear and black plastic, cubes, which you often see small things displayed in. He inverted the black base, drilled some holes in the bottom, and planted the genlisea in there. This is stacked on top of the clear "top", now the bottom, of the box, and the whole thing is put in a larger, inverted, clear plastic box. Then the base of the unit, all clear, is filled with water. The genlisea traps have grown down from the soil, into the water, so that they are hanging about 2' down into the water. It's a very nice display. Robert ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 92 09:23:40 PST XSubject: Re: PA plant sale review >>A lovely collection of Nepenthes. My favorite were his specimens which had >>black pitchers, or pitchers with black reticulation. >What's this? Barry finally admits to liking Nepenthes! Yeah, lovely in someone else's greenhouse. You should have seen Leo's face when I proudly told him I grow my Nepenthes in standing water so the root system stays dwarfed and the plants don't grow too fast or big! Leo mentioned the new CPN should be coming out very soon. I thought he said the first of August, but I wasn't paying too close attention then---I figure they'll arrive sooner or later (probably later). Yeah, Leo has an account recently rejuvinated. He told me his new address is LeoSong@fullerton.edu Why you may consider mailing to him directly, I do not think he would be too interested in joining the listserve group. But maybe you could ask. Robert A: Could you maybe set up a (small) graphic so I could understand better the interesting Genlisea arrangement you were describing? It sounds interesting... BAMR ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Robert Allen) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 92 22:53:04 PST XSubject: Re: PA plant sale review >>Robert A: Could you maybe set up a (small) graphic so I could understand >>better the interesting Genlisea arrangement you were describing? It sounds >>interesting... Here's an attempt. | \|/ <- plant grows above ground | ---------------- | | | soil in here | | | ~~ ---(----(--)----- ~~ | <- water line. | | /\ ( ) | | | | ( ) ) ( <-|----|------traps hang down in water | | | | <- outer clear box | | | | | | | <--|----- inner clear box, bottom open | | | | to water | | | | -------------------------- The two clear boxes are the little specimen boxes you see sold in plastics stores, or in art stores for putting little dioramas in. Dionea are sometimes sold in stores with moss in the black base part (here shown inverted) and the clear lid over the traps. I suspect that Geoff grows his plants out of this affair, in just the lid sitting in water, and then assembles the whole thing for shows, but I'm not positive. I'll see him next month and try to remember to get more details. The effect of the display is quite nice, with the white traps hanging down into the water and the leaves growin on the surface of the soil. Needless to say, you have to drill holes in the base allowing the traps to grow through. ################### From: bob@wrs.com (Bob Cohen) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 92 18:38:06 PDT Subject: hello cp discussion group! Hello Everyone! I recently heard about your discussion group (it was mentioned in the Bay Area CP Society Newsletter), and Rick Walker suggested that I mail directly to you all rather than go through the list server since they are having problems with a new hardware configuration. I first started growing CP's when I was a teenager, and after about a 20 year hiatus, I have started a small collection. I have about 40 plants from most of the major groups (Sarracenia, Nepenthes, Drosera, Dionea, Darlingtonia, Pinguicula) which I have obtained for the most part from Peter D'Amato at California Carnivores. Last year the plants were grown under a 500 watt metal halide light, but I moved the plants outdoors this year (they seem to like it better outside - better color, more vigorous growth.) I live in the East Bay (Oakland,CA), which has a temperate climate - cool summers and mild winters (freezing temperatures are very rare.) The water supply here is apparently very low in mineral content, so I use water straight out of the tap, although I was advised to change media after a couple of years - so far so good. The Nepenthes are grown in a small plastic covered frame, but everything else is out in the open. I've become curious recently about tissue culture, and am wondering if any of you have any experience with propagating CP's with tissue culture. Any references or anecdotes would be great! Also, is this discussion being archived anywhere? Please respond directly for the moment, since I have been unable to subscribe via the list server. Thanks! Bob Cohen bob@wrs.com ################### From: Davin Date: Tue, 14 Jul 92 13:19:10 PDT Subject: Nepenthes Charles, if you want Nepenthes, try Lees or Orgel's Orchids. The CPN seedbank usually has some Nepenthes seed, but they can be pretty old. Allen Lowrie has also has some Nepenthes seed (some rare ones as well), but it'll cost you since he's in Australia. Also, I have some N.khasiana seedlings that I could part with. They're still kind of small (3-4" wide), but I think they'll survive the mail. I haven't yet sent out the seed order because of a midterm I had to take. It'll probably go out Thursday. ################### From: ATLAS@JHUVMS.HCF.JHU.EDU Date: Wed, 15 Jul 92 11:32:00 PST Subject: CP, what else? Well, after a lot of hassling with my landlord, we have decided to move. Believe it or not, my CP was one of the problems the landlord had. My plants are growing on the second floor back porch and in the patio in the back yard. Mr. Landlord said we can't put *anything* on the back porch *or* in the back yard. We were told we couldn"t use the yard for any purpose at all. Since we were cramped in the apt anyway, it was a good time to move. The problem is, our new place will have plenty of outdoor space for the cp, but it is all heavily SHADED. :( . So I need lots of advice regarding indoor lighting for cp. It seems the best and cheapest way to go is with fluorescent "shop" lights. True?? The new place has a small unused fish pond which I might try to convert into a utric pond. My two drosophyllum plants, both about a year old, are growing well, but have become trailing, and one is almost growing sideways? Is this normal? I kinda think it's due to insufficient lighting, but they get half a day of direct sunlight... I still have the problem with the browning tips of my N Hookeriana. doug ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Robert Allen) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 92 23:14:05 PST Subject: Re: CP, what else? >>Well, after a lot of hassling with my landlord, we have decided to move. >>Believe it or not, my CP was one of the problems the landlord had. My Landlords generally suck. I've been told crap like this in the past. Stupid. After all, what's a backyard FOR, if not to grow plants in? My apt. complex is going to have the exterior power washed then painted over the next week or two. I now have to move my CP to the middle of my `yard', and hope the painters don't get them. I will put poly over the anti-fauna cage on 3 4 sides of the cube to hopefully keep windblown pollutants out. I'll be leaving one open side to keep heat buildup down. Here's hoping.... >> >>My two drosophyllum plants, both about a year old, are growing well, but >>have become trailing, and one is almost growing sideways? Is this normal? >>I kinda think it's due to insufficient lighting, but they get half a day >>of direct sunlight... 'trailing' is supposed to be a feature with this plant isn't it? My single plant in a slack-pot long ago started trailing. It produced 4 blooms this year, and from the leaf nodes below the blooms I now have more, vertical, growth. it looks like a couple of new plants, but of course isn't. I'll now see if my plant lasts past blooming, but so far it seems happy. On other fronts: - one of my "dead" D. falconeri may be coming back from the roots in my work setup under lights. - my dead D. prolifera is also coming back, unfortunately with aphids. Time to spray before they infest the rest of the terrarium. ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Robert Allen) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 92 17:27:12 PDT Subject: Re: CP stuff I just took a closer look at my work plants, and it seems as if my P. cyclosecta has divided. I had two very small plantlets of these, and now I have 3. While outside they got a nice reddish tinge, but didn't grow in size. Indoors the leaves are now green, but the plants are growing past their previous 3/8" diameter. I know this is a small species, but just how big does it get? r. ################### From: bob@wrs.com (Bob Cohen) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 92 18:10:19 PDT Subject: drooping darlingtonia I have two pots of Darlingtonia which have been doing great - lots of new shoots coming up and large traps. Last week, the new leaves on one of the mother plants started to droop, and it's been getting progressively worse. All the other plants in the pot seem to be fine. In the other pot, one of the small shoots suddenly turned brown, and dropped dead, but all the other plants in the pot are fine. Any ideas? Should I dig the whole thing up to have a look at the roots? ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Wed, 15 Jul 92 18:26:36 PDT Subject: Re: drooping darlingtonia In message <9207160110.AA01749@harirud.wrs.com.> you write: > > I have two pots of Darlingtonia which have been doing great - lots of new > shoots coming up and large traps. Last week, the new leaves on one of the > mother plants started to droop, and it's been getting progressively worse. > All the other plants in the pot seem to be fine. > Bob, I just lost a bunch of leaves on my Darlingtonia and S. psitticina. After some thinking, I traced it back to an application of Malathion bug-spray. It took about 2 weeks for them to actually succumb. Only the particular leaves that were sprayed died. Other shoots that had come up after the spraying were unscathed. I am going to take the Malathion to our city's toxic waste disposal program. I'm pretty sure it also nailed a D. cuneifolia also. It is rumored that Diazanon is a CP-safe alternative. The only other suggestion is that you might have an insect larvae eating out the crown of your plant. Maybe if you poke around in the sphagnum you can check this out. -- Rick ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Robert Allen) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 92 20:02:08 PDT Subject: Re: drooping darlingtonia I wouldn't dig up the roots. If the plant is near dieing this will only assure it. If you are currently using tap water then switch to distilled for a while. And then perhaps start daily flushings with chilled water. Those are the only suggestions I have. It could be your plant is just slowing down growth due to summer temps. r. ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 92 10:34:15 MST XSubject: Re: drooping darlingtonia >I am going to take the Malathion to our city's toxic waste disposal >program. I'm pretty sure it also nailed a D. cuneifolia also. >It is rumored that Diazanon is a CP-safe alternative. I've found the following things out regarding these two poisons... Now mind you, I'm restricting this to Sarracenia... Diazinon is perfectly Sarracenia safe. I've used it a couple of times each year for about three years with no adverse affects. Very effective on scale, aphids, and mealies. Malathion is suggested by very Sarracenia savy growers like Don Schnell. But he told me to beware of using the liquid stuff since the solvent in it could be CP nasty. He suggests using it in wettable powder form (Malathion WP 25%). The only place I've seen this offered is Orchids by Hauserman, an outfit in Illinois (I don't have the address at this point). Don also suggested I use pyrethrin, which usually comes with a synergist compound called something like *** butoxide. He says this is safe on ALL CP. I've used it on various hybrid Drosera and some Pings with acceptable results. I did get some leaf damage to Sarrs, though. Lastly, though, and I think this is funny, if you look at most boxes of blackboard chalk, at least the brands I get, there is a little logo on it saying, ``CP-nontoxic.'' >The only other suggestion is that you might have an insect larvae >eating out the crown of your plant. Maybe if you poke around in >the sphagnum you can check this out. If I were having problems with this plant, I'd just say, well it's supposed to be a very hard plant to grow! I don't know how hot your conditions are, but maybe it's getting cooked. Well carnivorophiles, I'm going to be gone for a vacation for a few weeks. I will be travelling with my wife on an insanely busy trip visiting relatives and museums in Northern california. I don't think I'll have time to stop in and pester any of you bay area growers, but I'll be passing through. I do have a day scheduled for scouting out Darlingtonia in Plumas county, and am armed with very good location data finagled from various botanists etc. so I hope to be successful. I hope the trained monkeys taking care of my plants in my absence do well! Talk to you around August 3! Until then you are free of my pedantic postings. BAMR ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 92 11:07:53 MST XSubject: Re: drooping darlingtonia Well I'd like to see some collections, sure, but I'm not sure we'll have time. He's in wine country, isn't he? We are planning to head up there for a day. Do you have data on where he is? Like a general area on the map. I could see if he's in a place that's reasonably close to our flight plan. Maybe when I'm in the Bay area I could give you a call and get his number or detailed directions. What's your phone number? B ################### From: Earl Nishiguchi (808) 245-8274 Date: Thu, 16 Jul 92 10:29 HST XSubject: Re: drooping darlingtonia Hi All, I'm also going on a vacation for the next three weeks... to Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, DC, NJ, Virginia, W Virgina, Delaware, etc. depending on time. Don't think I'll have time also to drop in on any of you... this time. Maybe next time. If any one you are planning to come to Hawaii though, drop by... Earl ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Thu, 16 Jul 92 20:48:00 PDT Subject: Trip to Europe Well, here is my report on my trip to Europe. Somehow I managed to hit the Botanical Gardens in each of the major cities that I visited... Here are the CP details: 1) Gradina Botanica in Cluj, Romania: Romania is still recovering from a communist dictatorship, but the botanic gardens seemed to have weathered pretty well. While walking through the greenhouses, I happened upon the head conservator, Micle Felician, who knew enough English, French and Latin to communicate with me. He gave me a tour through the greenhouses and showed me their small CP collection: Drosera montana D. capensis D. burkeana Unlabeled Nepenthes sp. Dionea Cephalotus I promised him that I would send him some Darlingtonia seeds, and he seemed very pleased. In return he gave me small packets of seed for D. montana, D. capensis, and D. burkeana. The address for the garden is Gradina Botanica Cluj-Napoca Micle Felician 3400 Cluj-Napoca Republica Romania 2) Jardin Botaniques in Geneva, Switzerland I saw the greenhouse for this one from the train while pulling into the station. Since I had a few hours, I had to go visit... They had a really extensive collection here. It was obvious that someone had a deep interest in CP. A special room was devoted to both Cacti and CP. The total area for CP was four bog gardens, each 3' x 12' in area. The entrance to the CP room gave the following vital statistics: temp. min hivernale 12C reduction nocturne de 4C 50% R.H. Anyone care to translate? They had a Min/Max thermometer on the wall that had recorded a min of 10C and a max of 42C. Each bog was an elevated aluminum table with an 8" deep tray. Most of the trays were filled with about 70% peat, 30% sand. The tray for Dings, Drosophyllum and Roridula was filled with about 50% peat, 30% sand, and 20% styrofoam pellets. Each tray was set up with 8-9 mounds, upon which the various plants were placed. There did not appear to be any provision made for drainage. The low areas between hummocks was planted with live sphagnum. About 5' above each table was a 400 Watt halogen lamp. During my visit, at 14:00 they were turned on. Here are the plants that were on display: Sarracenia alata S. flava S. flava 'maxima' S. jonesii S. leucophylla S. leucophylla x flava S. minor S. oreophila S. oreophila x flava S. psittacina (both giant and typical) S. purpurea gibbosa S. purpurea heterophylla S. purpurea purpurea S. purpurea venosa S. rubra S. x formosa (alata x purpurea) Drosera adelae D. admirabilis <1/2x aliciae, with mane of dead leaves> D. affinis D. alicia D. auriculata D. binata D. binata dichostoma D. capensis (both narrow leaf and typical) D. capillaris D. cuneifolia D. dielsiana D. filiformis D. hamiltonii D. montana D. peltata D. prolifera D. pulchella D. regia D. villosa Pinguicula caudata P. esseriana P. moranensis P. moranensis 'alba' Drosophyllum lusitanicum Roridula gorgonis Dionea muscipula "Where did they get all these wonderful plants?", you may ask... Well the tags had the source written on the back so I recorded the sources also. It seems that most of the plants came from other botanical gardens. Here's the list: J.B. Munchen (Jardin Botanique) J.B. Berlin J.B. Gottingen Ferrera Kew Wien (Vienna) Zimmermann Stadtling Roomanie Von Ara Chambesy Frederic Grand homme Ch Calin. At least some of these look like names of private correspondents... Here is the address: Carnivorous Plants Dept. Jardin Botaniques de Geneve 1.ch.de P'Imperatrice ( ) Geneve There is supposed to be a postal code in the ()'s but the person on duty didn't know it offhand. While I was here, I harvested a couple seed capsules from some P. vulgaris plants growing in an outdoor display. They had the plants growing on the side of a 8'-high rock wall that was beautifully planted with all manner of ferns, saxifrage and Pings. The pings were loaded with seed capsules that sounded like maracas when shook. At the top of the wall was a soaker hose on a timer that would gently dribble water down through the cracks in the wall. Great idea! And finally: 3) Jardin Plantes, Paris France The display here was a bog built in a 4'x3' glass case. The bog was about 8" deep and appeared to have no drainage. The display was nicely landscaped with old, gnarled logs and hummocks of sphagnum. The list of plants was: Drosera binata D. binata 'dichotoma' D. aliciae D. spathulata D. capensis (both narrow and typical) Sarracenia alata S. flava S. purpurea Cephalotus follicularis Dionea muscipula Pinguicula caudata In addition, there was a display that gave information for the French CP society. In case any of you francophiles would like to join, here's the info: Dionee Association francaise d'amateurs de plantes carnivores SEIGE SOCIAL: CDM., 55 rue Louis-Ricard 76000 Rouen The annual dues (in 1988) were 80 Francs, and were payable to DIONEE G. LECOINTE Route du Muguet Cady-Raizeux 789120 Rambouillet The have 3 publications a year consisting of plant descriptions, cultural techniques, and field observations. In addition they publish listings of individual collections, indexes to their seed banque, and a membership roster. That's it! Rick ################### From: drosera@gnu.ai.mit.edu Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1992 00:47:20 -0400 XSubject: Re: Trip to Europe >I first started growing CP's when I was a teenager, and after about a 20 year >hiatus, I have started a small collection. I have about 40 plants from >most of the major groups (Sarracenia, Nepenthes, Drosera, Dionea, >Darlingtonia, Pinguicula) which I have obtained for the most part from >Peter D'Amato at California Carnivores. Last year the plants were >grown under a 500 watt metal halide light, but I moved the plants >outdoors this year (they seem to like it better outside - better color, >more vigorous growth.) I live in the East Bay (Oakland,CA), which has >a temperate climate - cool summers and mild winters (freezing >temperatures are very rare.) The water supply here In my opinion, anyplace where palm trees can grow outdoors has a tropical climate. I'd like to live in a place where cold weather lasts less than 6 months out of the year for a change. I live in New Albany, Indiana by the way (close to Louisville, Kentucky). >is apparently very low in mineral content, so I use water straight out of the >tap, although I was advised to change media after a couple of years - so far >so good. The Nepenthes are grown in a small plastic covered frame, but I just collect rain water. If the eaves are kept clean, the rain water seems to look fairly clear as it runs down from the roof and into a bucket. >everything else is out in the open. > >I've become curious recently about tissue culture, and am wondering if any of >you have any experience with propagating CP's with tissue culture. Any >references or anecdotes would be great! I know Bill Carroll has a lot of experience in growing and propagating CP in-vitro. I have a small booklet that gives various techniques for orchid propagation by meristem culture. A similar technique should work for CP. I heard Nepenthes can be propagated in-vitro with tendril cuttings. The listserve has recently been changed to a new machine. You can send the messages "help" and "index cp" to the address "listserv@opus.hpl.hp.com" and you should get info on listserve commands and a list of files available by request (includes past messages and a list of CP species people in the group grow). The address "cp@opus.hpl.hp.com" is for writing messages to the entire group. Robert, I think it was you who asked how big P. cyclosecta grows. My biggest plant that flowered recently measures 6 cm. ################### From: Davin Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 13:00:06 EDT Subject: Source listing? More about the CP conference, it's going to be held near Syracuse by a couple named Taylor. They've reserved a lecture hall in the Mariott Hotel for some slide shows and discussions. There's going to be one speaker who has recently been to the Tepui mesas in Venezuala and he will be showing some plants he found there. I don't know whether they mean collected or photographed. There's going to be a seed and plant exchange as well. At least I don't have to be jealous of you Bay Area folk anymore :-) Earl, if you haven't left for vacation, I can send you the specifics on this in case you're in the neighborhood. On yet another note, does anyone know of any other CP seedbanks in the USA besides CPN's? That's all for now, Davin ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 18:49:23 PDT Subject: Re: Source listing? > On yet another note, does anyone know of any other CP seedbanks in the USA > besides CPN's? I only know of one in France, run by the DIONEE club. See my posting of 7/16 for address. BTW, why is everyone so quiet on the list? -- Rick ################### From: Davin Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 10:08:02 EDT XSubject: Re: Source listing? Onward to other junk, the Taylors holding the conference are Carl and Sherry, if I'm not confused. I talked to Carl a few nights ago and he sounded like a very mellow guy (or maybe it was just the Southern drawl). He also said that a Mr.Rob Maharaj would be attending. Wasn't he in this discussion group a while ago? Hello? Rob? ################### From: MAHARAJ@SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 21:16 EDT XSubject: Re: Source listing? >a Mr.Rob Maharaj would be attending. Wasn't he in this discussion >group a while ago? Hello? Rob? Yeah, hello..its me. Still alive in body at least but mentally, I don't know anymore. I'm immersed in making the final touches on my thesis and I would like to submit ASAP. As a result, I've been very busy and not able to contribute to the discussion group as often as I would like. Here's a brief description of the convention at Carl's place in Lakeport- Canastota (sp?),NY. Its running for 3 days starting Friday, August 7, with a number of guest speakers scheduled for talks, including Scott Bennett, Chris Belanger and others. A number of real enthusiasts will be on hand: Jim Bockowski, Bill Scholl, Steve Smith and others. Jim, Bill and few other cohorts made a trip to Mt. Ilu-Tepuis in Venezuela and brought back a number of rarities like H. ionasi, H. minor (a couple of new forms), a new Drosera and the usual Utrics and Genlisea. These apparently will be on hand for dislay. Look for an add in the soon-to-arrive issue of CPN. There will also be plans and discussion for a 1993 meeting. Carl extends the invitation to anyone with intertest in CP to attend. He is an extremely hospitable sort, providing food and drink (you cook) and free backyard accomodations if you want to pitch tent. More conventional accomodations have been arranged at a local Marriot hotel at a group discount rate. He has just finished his G-house and so alot of his rare and diverse CP will be available for viewing. There will be a seed and plant exchange. Myself and a few other Canadian growers will be attending (the write-up should be out of the way by then!) so hopefully I would be able to meet and mingle with some of you guys - well, at least with Davin. It promises to be great fun! Rob M. ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 12:56:05 PDT Subject: Planting some seed I finally got around to planting the seed that I got on my trip to Europe. Nothing too exciting, but I thought I'd post my technique for your critical review :-). I used 70% milled peat, 30% horticultural sand dampened with a solution of Benomyl fungicide. After smoothing the soil, I sprinkled seeds of the following on the surface of individual pots: Byblis liniflora (from my plants) Drosera aliciae (from my plants) Drosera burkeana (from Bot. Garden, Romania) Drosera burmanii (from my plants) Drosera capensis (from Bot. Garden, Romania) Drosera intermedia (from my plants) Drosera montana (from Bot. Garden, Romania) Pinguicula vulgaris (from Bot. Garden, Geneva) The 4" pots are now in my greenhouse standing in 1/4" water, with a plastic hood to maintain high humidity. I don't have any doubts about the germination of the various Drosera, but I wonder if I'm doing the right thing for the Ping seed. Should I have tried to stratify them? Maybe they should do a short stint in the freezer... I only planted about 1/5 of the Ping seed, so I could still try something different. -- Rick ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Robert Allen) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 20:00:17 GMT Subject: Re: Planting some seed >>The 4" pots are now in my greenhouse standing in 1/4" water, with a >>plastic hood to maintain high humidity. When did you build your greenhouse Rick? What kind do you have? ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 15:27:52 PDT Subject: Re: Planting some seed > > When did you build your greenhouse Rick? What kind do you have? It's a 6 foot by 8 foot greenhouse that I built myself (about 10 solid days of work). There is a concrete footing, and the frame is done with rough-cut redwood. I used a new type of corrugated polyethylene plastic sheeting for the siding. It looks just like fiberglass, but is almost clear and has higher light transmission. There are potting benches on 3 sides: TOP VIEW: +--------------------------------------------------+ |//////////////////////////////////////////////////| |//////////////////////////////////////////////////| |//////////////POTTING BENCH///////////////////////| |//////////////////////////////////////////////////| |//////////////////////////////////////////////////| |/////////////+----------------------+/////////////| |/////////////| |/////////////| |/////////////| |/////////////| |/////////////| |/////////////| |/////////////| |/////////////| |/////////////| |/////////////| |/////////////| |/////////////| |/////////////| |/////////////| +-------------+----+===DOOR======+-----------------+ In retrospect, I wish that I had more floor space for big potted plants. The way it is built, it is optimized for lot's of small plants to sit on the bench. It's mostly done, except for the roof. Right now I've just got a plastic tarp stapled on the roof to keep the squirrels out until I've got time to get the fiberglass up. If you'd like to come by and check it out, I'll be around most of this weekend... I'd be fun to talk CP for awhile. -- Rick ################### From: drosera@gnu.ai.mit.edu Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 00:37:39 -0400 Subject: The new CPN arrives The new CPN came in the mail today. Here's a short description for those who haven't received theirs yet, or for those who don't subscribe. The new masthead color for this year is green. The front cover shows a painting of Dionaea. The back cover is a close-up photo of a cricket caught in a Dionaea trap. The special announcement is made for the CP gathering in Lakeport, New York - near Syracuse. Gordon's seed bank list is printed. This one is dated May 1992. Some interesting seeds include N. ventricosa x (inermis x bongso) - this was offered over a year ago. I don't know if this is a remake of the hybrid or if its old seed. He also has seeds available for 4 species of Nepenthes - khasiana, mirabilis, rafflesiana, and ventricosa. These species are fairly common. He also has a S. leucophylla (almost white), D. glanduligera, lots of D. linearis and villosa. They are only $1 a pack and available only to CPN subscribers. There is a list of seed bank donors - top donor gave 404 packs. Rob Maharajh is up there with 169 packs and Barry gave 80 packs. Total packs received between August 1990 and February 1992 was 2458. There's a short half-page article from Miloslav Studnicka. He announced a new Pinguicula hybrid - Pinguicula "Gina". This is a hybrid between zecheri and agnata. There's a picture of the new hybrid's flower - shaped like moranensis flower with light-lavender around the outermost portion, turning to white toward the center, then turning dark lavender in the center. The plant itself measures 15 cm across. Next, comes a two-page article on U. nephrophylla. There seems to be two types around that the author calls "Rio do Janeiro" and "Roraima". The former has leaves 5 mm wide (misprinted 5 cm on the drawing) and the latter has leaves 1 cm. wide. After this, there's a five-page article by some guy named Barry Meyers-Rice. The article is named "Focusing of U. calycifida - a Variable Species". Barry mentions the two types - "purple-veins" and "spotted flower". No mention of the other types that I remember Barry telling us about that looks like "purple veins" but whose leaves have wavy margins. There's also a drawing included of a Utric flower - done by "Meyers-Rice^2". Next is a four-page article, "Mechanisms of Trap Movement 1: Rapid Growth in Drosera, Dionaea and Scientific Notions of How Venus's Flytraps Close". Next is a seven-page article, "Growth Effects of Mineral Nutrients Applied to the Substrate or onto the Leaves in Four Carnivorous Plant Species". Seems that after the plants were given the nutrients and grown for awhile, the nutrient content of the plants exceeded the amount they were given. Apparently, the difference came from other nutrients in the soil, perhaps because the artificial nutrients given caused the roots to work more efficiently. Lastly, there's a 14 page article "The Seasonal Bog Garden". The author lives in York, PA and the article describes his outdoor bog garden. He mentions that he replaces all live sphagnum on the surface of the bog every year and during the winter, puts his plants in cold storage at $20 per month. ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 14:18:59 PDT Subject: CP listserv news We've also gotten a lot of new people joining the group. Here is the lastest list of subscribers and the number of messages from each subscriber: NAME: MSGS: ADDRESS: ------------------ ----- ----------------------------- Erkki Aalto 0 AALTO@PHCU.HELSINKI.FI Anders Ardo 4 ANDERS@DIT.LTH.SE Doug Atlas 13 ATLAS@JHUVMS.HCF.JHU.EDU Barry Meyers-Rice 57 BARRY@AS.ARIZONA.EDU Bob 0 BOB@EMX.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Bob Cohen 2 BOB@WRS.COM James C Stolpa 0 CCCI001@SIRIUS.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Clarke 0 CLARKE@WATSON.IBM.COM Don Burden 20 DNGESS01@VLSI.CT.LOUISVILLE.EDU David Rindos 0 D_RINDOS@FENNEL.WT.UWA.EDU.AU Scott Brown 5 HSBROWN@ARNOLD.PRINCETON.EDU Phoebe Couch 8 ITHACA!AMBER!PHOEBE@UUNET.UU.NET John Amoroso 0 JA@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU James Hensleu 0 JPAUL@BARGE.SD.LOCUS.COM Rob Maharaj 0 MAHARAJ@MCMASTER.BITNET Sunil Gupta 0 MONSOON!SG@UUNET.UU.NET Roger Myers 0 MYERS@AB.WVNET.EDU Paul Teegarden 0 PTEEGARDEN@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU Charles Rezac 2 REZAC@KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU Robert Allen 52 ROBERT.ALLEN@ENG.SUN.COM John & Paul 32 RPHJT@MINYOS.XX.RMIT.OZ.AU Earl Nishiguchi 5 T044660@UHCCMVS.BITNET Larry Tabacco 0 TABACCO@STSCI.EDU Rick Walker 27 WALKER@HPL-CUTT.HPL.HP.COM William Baumgartner 0 WB@MTQUA.ATT.COM Davin Stewart 41 XKU@CORNELLA.CIT.CORNELL.EDU Maybe some of the new people might like to write a short message introducing themselves to the group. Something along the lines of: How you got interested in CP's, how long you've been growing them, what plants you currently have... -- Rick Walker ################### From: Surly but not Mutinous Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:12 EST Subject: Personal Intro. This message is in response to Rick Walker's suggestion that new subscribers to the Internet CP discussion introduce themselves. It's pretty boring, so skip it if you're having a hard day. I just recently began "experiencing" Internet, and I found the carnivorous plant discussion group/distribution list only the other day. I know very little about Internet and almost nothing about carnivorous plants. I'm interested generally in plants - usually the more unusual and bizarre the better. In the past I've been mostly interested in succulents (especially _Euphorbia_ and stapleids) and I still have some, but now I concentrate mainly on orchids. I've mostly been a "windowsill" grower (i.e. I've never had a greenhouse or anything similar) and I still don't: I currently grow my orchids on a light stand in the basement. My orchids are getting a little boring and I'm looking for a little change, which explains my presence in this discussion, although I've always been somewhat interested in carnivorous plants. (Not to imply that I'm a great orchid grower. Or succulent grower for that matter - I dabble.) I'm interested in growing CPs under lights "with" my orchids, although this is not a requirement. From my very limited experience with CPs, I think that I would like to try Asian pitcher plants (_Nepenthes_?) or sundews. But I'll need a *LOT* of help. (Speaking of _Nepenthes_, is anyone else disappointed that Longwood Gardens [in PA] has ripped out the _Nepenthes_ greenhouse exhibit to make way for a "Mediterranean garden?" I had always enjoyed that exhibit immensely. True, they've moved the plants back to the "fern alley" near the small display of other CPs, but it's not the same: they're harder to see and it's not as neat. [I liked it when the fogger went off in the greenhouse - it gave me a real "tropical" feel.]) I work at the [Hubble] Space Telescope Science Institue on the Homewood campus of Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, MD. (No flames, please!) I'd be interested in hearing about any local CP clubs in the area (broadly defined to be York, PA south to D.C.). I'd also be interested in chatting with anyone who would so desire. Larry ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Robert Allen) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 22:25:33 GMT Subject: I'm moving.... But just to another building. My email address will remain the same, but may be unreachable for a day or so. Please don't delete me from the list. I'm going from a single office to sharing with 2 others, but they seem like nice guys, and my corner of the office gets afternoon sun. I've already moved my indoor green- house over there. BTW, it looks like my thought-to-be-dead D. falconeri may be coming back from the roots. Robert Allen, rja@sun.com ################### From: Davin Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 09:48:11 EDT Subject: Re: I'm moving.... Say Rob, are the D.petiolaris plants really that hard to grow? I see Lowrie is selling them for $28/4 plants. Why so high? Are they that difficult to grow? I'm thinking about ordering some seed from him and don't want to waste my money. And what's the deal with D.regia? The impression I have is that this is very sought after. Is it difficult to grow? That's all for now, Davin ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 20:09:39 PDT Subject: Potential D. petiolaris order In message <9207291417.AA08907@hplms2.hpl.hp.com> you write: > Say Rob, are the D.petiolaris plants really that hard to grow? I see > Lowrie is selling them for $28/4 plants. Why so high? Are they that > difficult to grow? I'm thinking about ordering some seed from him and > don't want to waste my money. > > > And what's the deal with D.regia? The impression I have is that this > is very sought after. Is it difficult to grow? Davin, If you are ordering any of the D.petiolaris complex of plants, I'm willing to split the order with you. $28/4 plants = 2 for you, 2 for me :-). I'd especially like to get D. petiolaris 'kununurra'. I think it looks neat. How would you like to post Lowrie's current list of available plants? (hint, hint...) BTW, here's something fun I noticed when typing in the list of registered Nepenthes hybrids from Lecoufle's book: Nepenthes x petersii (mixta x tiveyi) [ML] Nepenthes x paullii (tiveyi x mixta) [ML] Cute, huh? -- Rick ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Robert Allen) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 16:52:49 GMT Subject: Re: I'm moving.... >>Say Rob, are the D.petiolaris plants really that hard to grow? I see Lowrie i s >>selling them for $28/4 plants. Why so high? Are they that difficult to grow? >>I'm thinking about ordering some seed from him and don't want to waste my >>money. I don't know if they are hard to grow, but in my neck of the woods they definately seem to be indoor or greenhouse plants. They must require fairly consistant, warm, temps. I think Lowrie is just charging what traffic will bear, plus perhaps he doesn't want to deplete the supply or waste good plants on people who are likely to kill them (like me :-)). Check his list again. I'd be surprised if he's still offering the petiolaris plants this year, as he did a mass mailing earlier this year. There are some petiolaris complex plants in the US for sale, but their hard to hunt down, and expensive. I got a petiolaris aff. K. from Gordon, and a seedling petiolaris from Chuck Powell. >> >>And what's the deal with D.regia? The impression I have is that this is very >>sought after. Is it difficult to grow? I get conflicting stories on regia. I had a plantlet and it may have died. This is what I have on this plant: * It supposedly dies back to the roots periodically, similar to D. hamiltonii. * It may like cooler temps. * I can be propagated from root cuttings fairly easily, like D. binata. That's it. I'm keeping my pot of dead regia plantlet in the event it decides to come back. r. ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 92 22:07:59 +0000 Subject: Re: Allen Lowrie List >erythrorhiza var. imbecilia [$4.62/2 tubers] Why is this plant stupid? Does it send it's leaves down into the soil? ;-) >rosulata aff. leaves w/narrow petioles and red-elliptical leaves [$5/tuber] Try fitting that on your plant label! I've just picked up a couple more Pinguiculas - caerula (large plant with two growing points - to replace the last one that died) and ehlersae (which had an accident on the way home and lost it's long, drooping flower stalk :-( Luckily there's a new one emerging.) The ehlersae has a nice flower, but it's rather featureless, compared with the attractively veined caerula flowers. I also bought a Drosera stolonifera ssp. compacta which has 4 plants of various size growing in the one pot! The plants are rather small at the moment - a couple seem to be large seedlings or young tuberlings (?), one of the others is fairly large, and the final one is only just emerging, but should be a large mature plant judging by the size of the leaf "bundle" (rosette leaves). Our erythrorhiza has had a slug attack and some of the leaves got holed, as did one of our greenhood species. The greenhood orchids are growing very well at the moment and many are in flower or are sending up scapes. In particular, the Pterostylis curta ("Blunt Greenhood") massed pot (estimated to have at least 30-50 plants in it, and bought at a very reasonable price a couple of years ago). The dozen or so P. concinna's ("Trim Greenhood") look good too, what they lack in flower size they make up for in the attractive, neat (hence "Trim" greenhood) flowers - the curta's are somewhat "coarse". We weren't entirely successful with some of the other species, which didn't survive the summer dormancy (probably rotted :-( ). These plants are as easy (or easier) to grow as tuberous sundews and would make a good addition to any CPers collection (they look a lot like John Wyndham's Triffids is one of the BBC's (?) TV "mini-series" - I'm pretty sure they turned to Greenhoods and Sarracenias for they designs). BFN +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [The Banshee] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au | Department of Applied Physics | | MOKING IS A HEALTH HAZARD. | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 92 12:51:23 MST XSubject: Re: Allen Lowrie List Hiya folks! Barry here, back from vacation (and decadently about to leave for another). First, scanning the email.... >In my opinion, anyplace where palm trees can grow outdoors has a tropical climate. I'd like to live in a place where cold weather lasts less than Tell that to the Saguaros growing out in the 110 F, 15% humidity we have out here in Tucson. Tropical? No. Blast furnace? Yes! >After this, there's a five-page article by some guy named Barry Meyers-Rice. No doubt the crown jewel of the issue. > I work at the [Hubble] Space Telescope Science Institue on the Ah, another astronomer! >>And what's the deal with D.regia? The impression I have is that this is very >>sought after. Is it difficult to grow? >* It supposedly dies back to the roots periodically, similar to > D. hamiltonii. >* It may like cooler temps. >* I can be propagated from root cuttings fairly easily, like D. > binata. All true to my experience. Also add that seeds germinate readily but take about three years to produce mature plants. Well, I got back safely from my trip to California, Nevada, and Utah. In the latter two states we visited the wonderful National monuments of Great Basin, Zion, and Bryce Canyon where we camped, hiked, etc. Also spent a glorious day in Ely, Nevada (aptly pronounced eely) while various inbred mechanics named bubba and wheezer etc tried to replace the alternator in our toyota truck--"Well you wouldn't ha got yerself in trouble if you'da bought an Amerkin truck!" And we even were asked to leave one garage when we asked them if they wanted to talk to our Toyota mechanic in Tucson for suggestions----"Yew think I need help from some fee-male mechanic?" Using some detailed location data from Hawkeye Rondeau, Bridgett and I were able to locate two seeps populated with Darlingtonia in northern California. The first location was very healthy and the mossy seep was populated by the Darlingtonia, Mimulus spp., Platanthera, Pedicularis, and weedy small lilies. The pH of the water was about 4 (I brought along my pH paper). I was surprised to see how slowly water seeped through the moss. The flow was imperceptable. The second site in Butterfly Valley Botanical Area is doing a little less well, I think, which is a pity since this area has been studied by the Darlingtonia botanists for about 100 years. The drought was taking its toll. While there were still many many plants, you could also see large dry piles of dead pitchers where plants used to live. No seedling activity noted. A pond which used to house a few species of Utrics had dried up. The first seep was dominated by some moss (not Sphagnum), but the second seep was being taken over by various grasses, sedges, and rushes. D. rotundifolia was found at both sites. As some useful cultural information, I was interested to note that the plants growing in full sun were compact (<10" tall) and prone to burning, while plants in full shade were healthy and up to three times taller (not etiolated) and not burnt. My camera's light meter at f/5.6 in full sun read 1/500 sec exposure, while the plants growing happily in the shade yielded an f/5.6 reading of 1/30 second, which means they were quite happy in light only 1/17 full sun! This should help growers trying to keep their plants cool! Now get this. My brother and his wife are biologists and were invited to Hawaii for a two-week conference. At the last minute his wife had to drop out of the trip, and I'm going in her place. All expenses paid, two weeks in the islands, and also a variety of hiking expeditions led by scientists interpreting the volcanoes and wildlife. Life can be sweet! On my return to the mainland, I'm arriving August 18 in San Francisco 8:11 pm (United flight 188 from Mauii) and leaving for Phoenix on the 19th, 11:15 am (United 1285). I've some friends who could put me up for the night, but are there any Bay Area CPers who might want to have dinner/put me up for the night so we could meet and talk CP? I know this may not be convenient for you, but I thought I should mention it so if anyone was interested.... BAMR ################### From: Davin Date: Sun, 02 Aug 92 21:15:03 EDT Subject: Re: Allen Lowrie List John, P.ehlersae is featureless? I hope you're talking about the flower. I've wanted one of those ever since I saw it in Slack(?). Lowrie's got some seed of this plant for sale and I'll be ordering from him soon. Later guys, Davin ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 92 14:16:09 +0000 Subject: Re: P. ehlersae >John, P.ehlersae is featureless? I hope you're talking about the flower. I've >wanted one of those ever since I saw it in Slack(?). Lowrie's got some seed of >this plant for sale and I'll be ordering from him soon. Yes, the flower is a basically just a standard Pinguicula flower. 5 wedge shaped petals (standard pale lilac/pink/purple shade) - 2 up 3 down. The leaves seem to be the feature of this plant according to Slack. They're supposed to be pink on the underside? The nice Pinguicula shown above ehlersae in Slack's (2nd) book is "species nova #4" - this *is* a nice plant with its possibly unique dark-centred pale flowers (as opposed to the normal light -centred dark flowers or most Pinguics.). I'm pretty sure we have some #4 plants at home (they certainly look like it) - funnily enough, they were supposed to be P.ehlersae! Plant mislabeling can work to the buyers advantage (occasionally). ;-) ################### From: Surly but not Mutinous Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1992 13:24 EST Subject: HELP: CPs under Florescent Lights I'm interested in growing CPs under florescent lights, and I'm looking for reference material. While I admit that I'm in dire need of *ANY* information on CPs, I particularly need this type of info - I'm trying to read up on the subject *BEFORE* I get any plants. I intend to look through the archives when I get the chance, but in the meantime I could use help, and I'd be happy to have suggestions. (I'd be interested in suggestions on any CP subject, actually.) Regarding the _Pterostylis_ orchids mentioned recently by John Taylor: they may make a good addition to any CPer's collection, but my experience is that they're *VERY* hard to find in the U.S. - at least through the normal orchid channels. Since they're native to Australia, I guess that John doesn't have as much of a problem. (Although try buying native U.S. orchids in the U.S. sometime - sources are "few and far between" and selection is very limited. And if one wants seed-grown rather than wild-collected plants - which I believe are the only kind to purchase - there is only ONE source with which I'm familiar.) I'd love to try some _Pterostylis_, but so far I haven't found a source. I'm in the process of getting a price list from an Australian orchid dealer that advertises hard-to-find, seed-grown species - hopefully they will have _Pterostylis_. Are they available from CP dealers? By the way, I hate to disillusion Barry Meyers-Rice, but I'm *NOT* an astronomer: my background is in math and computer science although, sad to say, I currently am more of a manager (no flames please!) than anything. Larry Tabacco ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (Robert Allen) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 92 18:38:05 GMT Subject: Re: HELP: CPs under Florescent Lights >>I'm interested in growing CPs under florescent lights, and I'm looking >>for reference material. While I admit that I'm in dire need of *ANY* >>information on CPs, I particularly need this type of info - I'm trying >>to read up on the subject *BEFORE* I get any plants. I intend to look >>through the archives when I get the chance, but in the meantime I >>could use help, and I'd be happy to have suggestions. (I'd be >>interested in suggestions on any CP subject, actually.) It's not hard. Some people will get more scientific, but in my indoor setups (at home and at work) I have had good success with minimal scientific effort. Common lore is that you don't need to buy gro-lites. Use a mixture of warm white and cool white tubes, and use 3-4 tubes of a length appropriate to the tank/ tray setup you're using. If growing under lights my personal reccomendation is to use plants which are low growing, so you can get the tubes within 6-8" of the plants. Give them a 12 hour or so photoperiod. Those are the basics. For plant storage you can either use trays or a fishtank. If you use a tank you'll have to play with the ventilation to avoid problems with mold. Also, plants grown in sealed terrariums should be "hardened off" if you ever move them out of the terrarium, or they'll droop from the climate change. I find that CP, except for lowland Nepenthes, generally don't need steaming jungle conditions. If you have a particularly dry environment you may have problems, but I know people who grow CP with their orchids, in their home, with no humidty tents, etc. >> >>Regarding the _Pterostylis_ orchids mentioned recently by John Taylor: >>they may make a good addition to any CPer's collection, but my >>experience is that they're *VERY* hard to find in the U.S. - at least >>through the normal orchid channels. Since they're native to >>Australia, I guess that John doesn't have as much of a problem. John can also buy tuberous drosera, nepenthes, etc., at his local stop & shop, not to mention in his backyad :-). r. ################### From: Robert Beer Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1992 17:07:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Introduction/J.L. Hudson's Pinguicula, question Hi folks. I guess I will start with the introduction - My name is Bob Beer, I have been growing CP on and off for about 12 years, but only recently have lived in one place long enough to really get back into it. I live in Seattle, WA, and am a student in Anthropology. We just started an informal Pacific Northwest Carniverous Plants Society and will be displaying at the Northwest Flower Show in August (for organizational (dis-organizational - read: deadline) reasons, in conjunction with the Northwest Cactus and Succulent Society (otherwise known as the Nortwest cac/suc-ers....I didn't think of it...). Our local members come from Oregon, Washington, and British Columbia. As for local CP, we have Pinguicula vulgaris and Drosera rotundifolia and anglica within a couple hours of Seattle (I just found a site near Pratt Lake in the Alpine lake region of the Cascades yesterday). Our most fanatical grower, Tom Kahl, (who unfortunately has no access to the net) has a gigantic, well-grown collection of plants, especially highland and lowland Nepenthes. Enough about me/us... I have a question for anyone who might know: J.L. Hudson, in the Zapotec seed collection, offers seed of a "fly catcher". One of our local people ordered it and it turned out to be a species of Pinguicula, but we haven't determined which species it is. Has anyone else grown this? It is hard to give a good enough description to facilitate an identification in writing, but if anyone would like to try and identify it, I can and will gladly provide close-up photos of the plant (and as more of us propagate it, live plants). Most of us are just now getting flowers now. The plants now are around 2" wide, and the flowers are varying shades of violet or red/violet, with white markings and very narrow petals. Thanks for any help you can provide! Bob ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 92 10:37:28 +0000 Subject: Re: Pterostylis orchids >>Regarding the _Pterostylis_ orchids mentioned recently by John Taylor: >>they may make a good addition to any CPer's collection, but my >>experience is that they're *VERY* hard to find in the U.S. - at least >>through the normal orchid channels. Since they're native to >>Australia, I guess that John doesn't have as much of a problem. > > John can also buy tuberous drosera, nepenthes, etc., at his > local stop & shop, not to mention in his backyad :-). > > r. Well, the "local stop & shop" isn't exactly local - it's about 20 mins down the freeway... However, there are some goin locally (at one of our favourite CP haunts - Langwarrin Flora and Fauna Reserve.) ;-) Pterostylis etc. are fairly easy to get here, but then we have trouble getting many of your unusual "local" CPs. Don't try to grow Australian native orchids from seed - they are just as difficult (impossible) to germinate as the other types of orchid. (You thought Nepenthes was difficult...) ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Tue, 04 Aug 92 12:31:31 PDT Subject: Germination report > I finally got around to planting the seed that I got on > my trip to Europe. > > ... (description of cultural details deleted) > > Byblis liniflora (from my plants) > Drosera aliciae (from my plants) > Drosera burkeana (from Bot. Garden, Romania) > Drosera burmanii (from my plants) > Drosera capensis (from Bot. Garden, Romania) > Drosera intermedia (from my plants) > Drosera montana (from Bot. Garden, Romania) > Pinguicula vulgaris (from Bot. Garden, Geneva) After 10 days, I've gotten germination on D. capensis, D. burmanii, and Byblis liniflora. Not a peep out of the others. >From what I've read, I'm thinking of putting the pot of Pinguicula in the freezer for a few days... -- Rick ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 92 11:39:19 +0000 Subject: Re: Germination report >From what I've read, I'm thinking of putting the pot of Pinguicula in the >freezer for a few days... > >Rick I stored my seeds in the fridge for a few (several?) weeks before sowing - I only got one seedling (which grew for a couple of seasons before dying). I'm certain that unless you have naturally cold winters, you'd better use a fridge. ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Tue, 04 Aug 92 18:38:45 PDT Subject: Drosera Hybrids Grepping through our group's database of CP, I've come up with the following list of Drosera hybrids: x beleziana (rotundifolia x intermedia) x californica (filiformis filiformis x filiformis tracyi) x hybrida (intermedia x filiformis) x linthulata (linearis x spathulata) x nagamoto (anglica x spathulata) x obovata (anglica x rotundifolia) x rotensis (rotundifolia x capensis) x watari (anglica x spatulata) x no_name1 (dilatato-petiolaris x falconeri) x no_name2 (nitidula omissa x occidentalis occidentalis) x no_name3 (nitidula omissa x pulchella) If you assume that: if A crosses with B and B crosses with C ----------------------- then A crosses with C Then it should be possible to cross any two members within any one of the following three groups: GROUP 1 anglica, capensis, filiformis, intermedia, linearis, rotundifolia, spathulata GROUP 2 dilatato-petiolaris, falconeri GROUP 3 nitidula-omissa, occidentalis-occidentalis, pulchella Within group 1, there are lots of interesting possibilities, such as capensis x anglica, filiformis x rotundifolia, etc. What would be interesting to know, is which of these hybrids are fertile, and which are mules? With the Droseras, you certainly don't see as much complex cross-breeding as in Nepenthes, eg: N. x rutzii = [[northiana x mixta] x [maxima superba x veitchii]] N. x prosperity = [[mirabilis x thorellii] x [mixta x [rafflesiana x veitchii]]] -- Rick ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 92 21:15:57 GMT Subject: Bay Area plant sale this weekend. For those in the SF Bay Area, the BACPS is having their quarterly meeting and plant sale this Sunday, the 9th. I don't have the meeting times on me, but the meeting is in Berkeley, at the arboretum, and they have a nice CP collection there as well. Other stuff: * I finally cut the old flower stalks off my dionea. One plant had rotted or petered out, and all that was left was the stalk. What surprised me is that a complete small plant was growing from the stem itself, above ground level. I've heard of this happening but hadn't seen it before. * water alert: a blume of industrial solvent in the groundwater has been discovered in parts of Palo Alto. Keep an eye on your plants if you, like I, use tap water. * root space rules. My large bog garden, in a 30 qt. tupperware closet storage tub, is doing pretty well. A small yellow utric has flowered. I don't know if it's the subulata I planted, or something else. Also the P. primuliflora has gotten much bigger than its fellows in my trays. It's got to be the bigger root space, or perhaps less water in the bog garden, which has done it. Interestingly most of the Sarrs. in my bog garden have not done much this year, except for the S. purp, which is putting up a stalk. When I got it only last year it was in a 2" pot from Chuck Powell! * ants found my Sarrs. The flava, leuco, and rubra have filled up to the top of the trapping area in each pitcher. Sadly, the plants aren't experiencing any major growth spurt from this food. Except of course for the purp., which caught yet another snail. * D. regia still looks dead, but I'm hoping it'll come back from the roots. Poor little guy... * work terrarium got aphids again dammit! I've sprayed. Hopefully the D. falconeri and dilatato-pet. X falconeri which were coming back from the roots will survive this :-(. Robert ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Wed, 05 Aug 92 15:30:38 PDT Subject: Re: Bay Area plant sale this weekend. Robert, I've had my calendar cleared for months after having missed the last two BACP meetings. Barring nuclear war, I'll see you there! > * water alert: a blume of industrial solvent in the > groundwater has been discovered in parts of Palo > Alto. Keep an eye on your plants if you, like I, > use tap water. The contamination is TCE, acetone and other solvents at a concentration of 8 parts per *billion*. The federal limit is 5 ppb. It's amazing what these fancy HP instruments can detect! Anyway - I'm pretty sure that Palo Alto isn't using any well water right now. It should all be coming from the Hetch-hetchy pipeline. > * root space rules. My large bog garden, in a 30 qt. > tupperware closet storage tub, is doing pretty well. > A small yellow utric has flowered. I don't know if > it's the subulata I planted, or something else. Is that the subulata that I gave you in some D. capensis? The little flowers look like fanciful fighter-jet airplanes to me. There is a pointy nose, broad delta wings, and a rounded tail. Should be a nice, bright lemon yellow, with maybe a touch of orange. My experience is that 90% of the flowers are cleistogamous, and never open. Usually, I've only got flowers for the first season after replanting a new pot. Once they get rootbound, they just stop flowering. > the P. primuliflora has gotten much bigger than its > fellows in my trays. It's got to be the bigger root > space, or perhaps less water in the bog garden, which > has done it. I've put my P. primuliflora, and my P. moranensis back in the house. They didn't seem to like the high temps/bright light in the greenhouse. Maybe I should try them in the bog. I've also had to move D. collinsae and D. capillaris to work because they were showing distinct wilting/browning from the greenhouse heat. I have to agree, though, that everything growing in the bog is much more robust and healthy than equivalent plants in pots. > Interestingly most of the Sarrs. in my > bog garden have not done much this year, except for > the S. purp, which is putting up a stalk. When I got > it only last year it was in a 2" pot from Chuck Powell! Of all the sarrs, my best luck has been my purpurea venosa plants. They seem to be real hardy and vigorous. Haven't had any bloom, though. I'm hoping that this is the magic time of year, and that mine will follow yours and start putting up stalks also. > * ants found my Sarrs. The flava, leuco, and rubra have > filled up to the top of the trapping area in each pitcher. > Sadly, the plants aren't experiencing any major growth > spurt from this food. Except of course for the purp., > which caught yet another snail. Last night I found that there is a nest of ants living in my flava x leuco plant. The pitchers are rapidly filling. I'm not sure if it is recommended, but it seems to me that the plant can't digest properly unless it has some moisture in the pitcher. I've gotten into the habit of squirting a couple drops of water into each pitcher about once a week. If the pitcher hasn't had much luck catching anything, I will occasionally give it a few drops of weak fertilizer. However, I haven't really done any controlled experiments, so caveat emptor... > * work terrarium got aphids again dammit! I've sprayed. > Hopefully the D. falconeri and dilatato-pet. X falconeri > which were coming back from the roots will survive this :-(. I just discovered aphids on my D. auriculata. After (nearly?) killing off my Darlingtonia and my S. psittacina with malathion, I'm real leary of spraying anything anymore. What are you using now for bug-spray? -- Rick ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 92 22:47:30 GMT Subject: Re: Bay Area plant sale this weekend. >>The contamination is TCE, acetone and other solvents at a >>concentration of 8 parts per *billion*. The federal limit is >>5 ppb. It's amazing what these fancy HP instruments can detect! >>Anyway - I'm pretty sure that Palo Alto isn't using any >>well water right now. It should all be coming from the Hetch-hetchy >>pipeline. Fortunately I don't drink local water anymore. For those listees who aren't in the SF Bay Area, Silicon Valley has ended up polluting the ground water here with all kinds of fun industrial solvents used in making PC boards. It's disgusting. My mom used to work at HP on the assembly line, and the stories she could tell about vats of chemicals open to the air are frightening. >> >>Is that the subulata that I gave you in some D. capensis? The little I had some subulata of my own; I didn't know there was some in the pot you gave me. I haven't seen it there yet. However the little D. intermedia seedlings which were in the pot I put in the bog, and I think at least one is flowering. There's another which is rather large, and I'm keeping my eye on it as a giant form. >>flowers look like fanciful fighter-jet airplanes to me. There is >>a pointy nose, broad delta wings, and a rounded tail. Should be >>a nice, bright lemon yellow, with maybe a touch of orange. My experience >>is that 90% of the flowers are cleistogamous, and never open. Usually, >>I've only got flowers for the first season after replanting a new pot. >>Once they get rootbound, they just stop flowering. I haven't looked closely at the flower, but it's classical fairy apron. >> >>I've put my P. primuliflora, and my P. moranensis back in the house. They >>didn't seem to like the high temps/bright light in the greenhouse. Maybe >>I should try them in the bog. >> >>I've also had to move D. collinsae and D. capillaris to work because >>they were showing distinct wilting/browning from the greenhouse heat. It sounds like you need to create/open more vents up high. Just leave them open. Close them in the winter maybe. I cooked a number of plants when I built my first greenhouse. BTW, if I didn't mention it before, an excellent whitewash can be created by a solution of hydrated lime and table salt. The salt causes the stuff to stick to the plastic. It goes on clear but dries quickly to a nice opaque white. >> >>I have to agree, though, that everything growing in the bog is much >>more robust and healthy than equivalent plants in pots. Long term I may move more plants to group plantings. >> >>I'm not sure if it is recommended, but it seems to me that the plant >>can't digest properly unless it has some moisture in the pitcher. I've >>gotten into the habit of squirting a couple drops of water into each >>pitcher about once a week. If the pitcher hasn't had much luck catching >>anything, I will occasionally give it a few drops of weak fertilizer. I thought they were supposed to supply their own water, but I've often wondered about this. >>I just discovered aphids on my D. auriculata. After (nearly?) killing off my >>Darlingtonia and my S. psittacina with malathion, I'm real leary of spraying >>anything anymore. What are you using now for bug-spray? I've only ever used one thing, and have had very good luck with it. Use diazanon (sp?) in solution, at 1/2 str. I think full str is 1 tbsp per gal. This doesn't seem to damage the plants much, and kills on contact. Note that wideleaved plants like D. prolifera have bugs UNDER the leaves, and you have to manually lift the leaves to get underneath. I keep a quart of this stuff around at all times. When I need it I give the spray bottle a couple of shakes to re-mix it, and spray. I use the smell test on the fluid to try and tell when to mix a new batch. When it stop stinking (after a month or two) I figure it must be innefective. Scientific, no? Robert ################### From: Robert Beer Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1992 15:55:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Bay Area plant sale this weekend. > >> > >>I'm not sure if it is recommended, but it seems to me that the plant > >>can't digest properly unless it has some moisture in the pitcher. I've > >>gotten into the habit of squirting a couple drops of water into each > >>pitcher about once a week. If the pitcher hasn't had much luck catching > >>anything, I will occasionally give it a few drops of weak fertilizer. > > I thought they were supposed to supply their own water, but I've > often wondered about this. > I would say look at their forms and judge. S. purpurea is open to the rain, and does often collect rainwater. Over most of its range there are frequent summer storms which would help keep some water in the pitchers. When I have seen it in habitat this was the only time there was water in the pitchers (Northern Minnesota). As for the others, their construction seems to keep rainwater out..and when they do get full of water they tend to fall over. Besides, if you look carefully, most of the upright trumptes do have a small amount of liquid in the base of the leaves. While they are not "water bath" traps, there certainly does seem to be enough moisture there to keep things decomposing, and also put in whatever enzymes it is that Sarracenias produce to help digest their catches. -Bob ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 92 23:18:11 GMT Subject: Re: Bay Area plant sale this weekend. >>> I thought they were supposed to supply their own water, but I've >>> often wondered about this. >>> >>I would say look at their forms and judge. I think what Rich meant is that some authors have written that water, and digestive enzymes, are pumped into the pitchers before they even open, like Nepenthes, and so water is supplied by the plant. My firsthand experience seems to indicate otherwise. It almost makes me wonder if the Sarrs., Darl., and Heliam. aren't all on the road to being non-carnivorous. Nepenthes are clearly carn. since they pump in the fluid before opening and then load it with enzymes. Robert ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Wed, 05 Aug 92 16:21:01 PDT Subject: Re: Bay Area plant sale this weekend. > I had some subulata of my own; I didn't know there was some in > the pot you gave me. I haven't seen it there yet. Well, maybe there wasn't any. Sometimes it seems like I've got it in *everthing*. > However the little D. intermedia seedlings which were in the pot > I put in the bog, and I think at least one is flowering. There's > another which is rather large, and I'm keeping my eye on it as a > giant form. If you've got any extras, I'd like to get one of those seedlings back. My mother plant isn't doing too well. I think it missed out on dormancy last year. - Or if you'd rather, just wait 'til the seedling blooms and send me some seeds... > I've only ever used one thing, and have had very good luck with it. > Use diazanon (sp?) in solution, at 1/2 str. I think full str is Is this just the stuff at the corner garden shop? Or did you have to get some rare, fancy, wettable-powder stuff from a CP supplier? Thanks for the whitewash tip. BTW, when can you come over and check out the greenhouse? -- Rick ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 92 23:28:52 GMT Subject: Re: Bay Area plant sale this weekend. >>> However the little D. intermedia seedlings which were in the pot >>> I put in the bog, and I think at least one is flowering. There's >>> another which is rather large, and I'm keeping my eye on it as a >>> giant form. >> >>If you've got any extras, I'd like to get one of those seedlings back. >>My mother plant isn't doing too well. I think it missed out on dormancy >>last year. - Or if you'd rather, just wait 'til the seedling blooms and >>send me some seeds... I think I have some spare D. intermedia seedlings, but I can't guarantee the parantage. Some seed I spread from a blooming plant last year came up this year in my old Dionea planter. I can give you a clump of those. >> >>> I've only ever used one thing, and have had very good luck with it. >>> Use diazanon (sp?) in solution, at 1/2 str. I think full str is >> >>Is this just the stuff at the corner garden shop? Or did you have >>to get some rare, fancy, wettable-powder stuff from a CP supplier? I bought mine at Hubbard & Johnson. But I have more than I'll ever need, so if you have a baby food jar or some other glass, sealable, container, you can have some of mine. >> >>Thanks for the whitewash tip. BTW, when can you come over and check >>out the greenhouse? How about on Sunday? I've designated that "plant day" because of the meeting. I don't know what your plans are, but we could carpool up to the meeting. I don't currently know what my plans are, but I am going. r. ################### From: Earl Nishiguchi (808) 245-8274 Date: Fri, 07 Aug 92 10:28 HST XSubject: Re: Bay Area plant sale this weekend. > Now get this. My brother and his wife are biologists and were invited to > Hawaii for a two-week conference. At the last minute his wife had to drop out > of the trip, and I'm going in her place. All expenses paid, > BAMR Just got back from our vacation the other day...very tiring but interesting 3 weeks. No, did not get a chance to see any cps anywhere but got to see some neat places. Barry, if you read this in time and plan to visit this island, Kauai, give me a phone call: work: 245-8258 home: 245-3475. I'm assumming you'll be only on Maui? It's one of the favorite island for tourist. Don't think there's any cps there though. We have the only swamps with Drosera sp. here on Kauai...although I haven't seen them in the wild... Earl ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 17:39:19 GMT Subject: BACPS meeting report (long) Rick Walker and I carpooled up to the BACPS meeting at the Botanical Garden at UC Berkeley this Sunday. The meeting ran from 2-4:30, and had 4 phases: dealer plant sale, auction, slide presentation, and raffle. Normally the auction is done last, but Peter D'Amato (the auctioneer) had to leave early. Dealer Plant Sale: present were Chuck Powell, Peter D'Amato, Carl Wong, Rick Walker (yay), and a woman selling some seedlings she grew. Peter brought only a few things, because I think he had a guest with him. The plants offered by everyone (except Rick) started at $5.00 and went up to $15.00 for a 3 year old Sarracenia. Species selection was good for a beginning collector, but neither I nor Rick felt the urge to purchase much. Auction: depending on how you looked at it, either the high or low point of the show :-). There were about 30 items auctioned, and the price on each averaged at least $30.00. Heliamphora and Cephalotus went for over $50.00, including a couple of H. ionasii seedlings which still had their cotylydons! Rick and I were both somewhat dissapointed that anyone with lots of money could cruise in and buy a mature, rare, plant, I particularly since I felt that at least some of the buyers (including one guy who's killed many plants) were probably not going to be able to keep the things in the kind of shape that made them so attractive to buyers. Peter D'Amata jokingly mentioned that any of these plants were ribbon winners at a flower show, but I think some of the buyers might actually enter then even though they didn't grow them. Considering that at least one local flower show gives cash awards for ribbons, this is disturbing. Enough complaining. I was excited to see some Nepenthes growing in rock wool. It's a very clean and convenient medium, but the danger of using the stuff dry will keep me from trying it. Slide show: A very interesting, but somewhat drawn out, slide show about a trip to the Illu Tepui and Mt. Roraima (sp?) in Venezuala (sp?). Some of you will recognise that these places are 2 of the 5 fog-shrouded plateaus which are the home of Heliamphora. The slides were presented by Bill Baumgartle, who was one of 4 people on the two trips to the mountains. Bill Scholl was another person. Bill, BTW, is the son of the woman who runs Maries CP and Orchids, from whom you can buy lots of expensive Helimaphora, Cephalotus, and rare lowland Nepenthes. I can't begin to describe how strange the biology of the Tepuis are, but the slideshow was pretty neat. There was video also, but the meeting hall closed before it could be shown (the meeting was not well organized). Anyhow, we saw slides of H. minor, heterodoxa, and ionasii in their native habitat, along with some info on day/night temps. Heliamphora is certainly an interesting plant in the niche it fills. I'd like to get one eventually, having had one years ago and killing it via some cultivation mistakes. After seeing the presentation I think I have a much better idea how to grow it. In fact, I bid on some small H. plants/seedlings, but I stopped bidding at $45.00 :-(. Same thing on some nice specimens of Cepalotus "Giant form". Raffle:You pay 50 cents per ticket, or 3 for $1.00, the tickets are put into a can, shaken, and randomly chosen. Unfortunately, in the 3 raffles I've seen, the same people win several plants. I've traced this to 2 causes: one, they don't mix the tickets correctly. They definately give the can a good shake, but anyone who's dealt with a can of tickets knows that this doesn't change the stratification of the tickets. You must manually mix them. The other reason for multiple winners is that some people invest $10.00 or so for tickets. Doing so is a good, and fair IMHO, way to have a decent chance of getting some nice plants at a discount. Plants raffled were good specimens, including one Heliamphora seedling which was probably a few months old. I hope the guy who got that can keep it alive. Overview: The slide show was interesting and worthwhile, although the room was hot and yucky. A concern I have about the long-term viaability of this `club' is that many of its boosters are either dealers, or buyers, leaving people like me with less benefit. Next meeting will allegedly be a display of CP-related art, which I expect to be mostly boring. I'd much rather see a display of specimen plants, and a discussion about how to grow them successfully. I may suggest this to the officers. Next meeting is also election of new officers, so we'll see how much interest there is in the club. A new collector goes through the buying phase, and at such time dealers, raffles, and auctions are a good way to get plants. However, after the first acquisitions, buying further, expensive, plants seems like a bad idea. You don't develop the contacts with people to trade with, and you may become mercenary in trying to sell whatever plants you've gotten propagated. I've been fortunate in that I received plants from people on this list when I was starting out, and I passed on some of my spare plants to Rick when he was starting out. I currently have some N. mirabilis and N. rafflesiana seedlings at home. If I took them to the meetings I could probably auction them off for $10.00 or more (a similar plant went for $15.00). After going to the meeting however, I think I'd rather send my spare plants to people on the list, or to trade with others. Maybe it'll help my karma in winning the raffle next time :-). I think my Nepenthes seedlings, which are coming up on a year old, will be up to traveling soon. If you would like to have one, send me email w/ your name and address, and I'll put it on my list. If you have any extra CP for trade, send that along too. I know there are more people on the list than I have plants, but I think the interest level is enough that I can get most people plants. Here's to free plants. (BTW, on this list at least, it's been the custom to send a check for enough to cover shipping costs, or to send some plants back in exchange.) Robert ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 17:47:27 GMT Subject: moss question Rick Walker and I were looking at CP this weekend, and he postulated the following: that the nice looking, fine grain, green moss which eventually grows on the surface of peat moss, can form a dense mat which seems to choke small plants to death. Rick also suggested that Utric- ularia could choke itself to death by filling a pot. I'd never thought about it, but in both of the cases dis- cussed, I have plants which fit the modus operandi. My densely packed utric pots filled, then died back, and some pygmy sundews I have had problems with dieing back, in a mossy pot. The latter were/are (?) D. helodes, and may have just bloomed themselves to death. A bummer, since they were a distinctive looking little plant. So, Barry, or other CP Gods on the net, what say you? Robert ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 11:16:36 PDT Subject: Re: moss question In message <9208101747.AA04603@batcomfs.Eng.Sun.COM> you write: > Rick Walker and I were looking at CP this weekend, and > he postulated the following: that the nice looking, fine > grain, green moss which eventually grows on the surface > of peat moss, can form a dense mat which seems to choke > small plants to death. Rick also suggested that Utric- > ularia could choke itself to death by filling a pot. Robert, After talking with you, I did an biopsy on my pot of Utricularia livida. It was pretty clear that the plant was being strangled by the moss. (I think this is what John and Paul Taylor have dubbed "bush moss") For an experiment, I have divided the clumps and repotted them in sphagnum peat about 1/2" below the edge of the pot. After that, I completely buried the plant under a 1/4" layer of horticultural sand. The idea is that the utric should grow up through the sand easily, whereas the shallow-rooted moss will find it difficult to grow on the surface of the sand. I did the same thing with some U. praelonga some time ago and it has worked fine so far. After seeing how badly the moss had strangled the U. livida, I went ahead and repotted my U. sandersonii, and my Drosera dichrosepala also. -- Rick ################### From: Davin Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 12:55:28 EDT Subject: Re: HELP: CPs under Florescent Lights OK, I'm back from the convention and here's the obligatory write up: Great stuff. I had never been to a gathering of cp-philes, but if this one was typical of the rest, I'm going to be going to many more. It was a good group of people, about 15-20, from all walks of life. Several people had met previously or corresponded for varying lengths of time, but others were largely unknown (like myself). Still, after the convention had ended, we had made some good friends. While I'm going all mushy, I must give credit to our hosts Carl and Sherry. These people would give you the shirt off of their backs if you wanted it. Great sort. Well worth knowing. Now on to the plants: Incredible. There were plants ranging from common to unbelievable. I'll give you some of the highlights: B. liniflora "Darwin" Several species of heliamphora :) That cross between green psittacina and green purp. Several utrics new to cultivation (nana, laxa, aureomaculata to name a few) Cephalotus "Giant" D. regia Many others that I can't recall right now. ... and rumors of a heterophyllous form of heliamphora. :-o There were slides from Scott Bennett (who did that P.gypsicola painting on a recent CPN), who is interested in morphological differences in Pings, and Peter Northcote (I don't know what he was interested in, but he was enthusiatic ). Also, there was a talk on cultivating Utrics by Christoph Belanger, (all of the new utrics are his) After dark, there were videos by Bill Scholl of two of his trips to the tepui mesas. Very educational on the ecology of the mesas and an interesting theory on heliamphora being epiphytic. He has edited and narrated them and copies are available: Mt. Ilu $30 and Mt. Roraima $20 (BTW the reason for the charge is so he can get better video equipment for next years trip). Also, good to meet you Rob. Plans are already in the making for next year (possibly at Longwood gardens in PA). Larry, you were asking about culture under flourescent lights. If you opt to cultivate with covered terraria, watch out for heat build-up. I have this problem in the summer and must move all of my plant outside. One other way around this is to locate the terraria in the basement or in an air conditioned room. If you can keep temps down, you can grow a vast range of plants in the combined high humidity, low temps, and adequate light. Just read Roberts report of the Bay area meeting. Too bad you didn't get to see the videos of the tepuis. Some great scenery. I fully agree with your view of free plants. I was talking with Carl Taylor (who has seen CP built up from the grass roots) and his policy is that the more a plant is spread around, the more chance it has of succeeding in cultivation. I fully agree with this. This is a hobby, not a commercial market. I did not get interested in cp for a cash profit, I like the plants,and if I spread a plant around then there's that much more pleasure out there. Also, there's that much more chance that I'll get the plant back if mine dies :) BTW, I'll be posting Lowries list soon. No really, I will be. :) Good growing, Davin ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 18:29:59 GMT Subject: Re: BACPS meeting report (long) After re-reading my report on the BACPS meeting I realized it sounds more critical than I intented. I think most people who attended were pleased with the meeting, and I personally felt that the slide show `made' the meeting. Maybe the video will show at some future meeting. Obviously if I was really unhappy with the club I'd either stop going, or run for an office to change things. I don't plan on doing either :-)|( The next meeting is in November. Robert ################### From: Davin Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 14:43:48 EDT Subject: Re: moss question My U. sandersonii did this. It grew fast and strong for a while and filled the pot. After much flowering, it just started to die back. No fungus, no pests, no change in conditions. It may have choked itself out. Anyway, I repotted what little I had left and have my fingers crossed (fingers crossed for U.sandersonii, how ironic). BTW I'm changing my e-mail address on the server. This address will still be functional but I will not check it as much. The new address will be: davin@tiberius.tc.cornell.edu Good growing, Davin ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 18:08:02 GMT Subject: Re: N. rafflesiana For those interested in my plants, you should know that N. rafflesiana is a lowland Nepenthes. This means it requires warm and humid daytime and night conditions. Days 80-90 degrees, nights no lower than 60 degrees. Humidity at all times. This plant is ideally suited for a warm and humid greenhouse, or a well lit, warm, and humid terrarium. The plants are small now and you could keep them in any sized fishtank terrarium, but over the years the plant grows quite large, and you'll have to either get larger tanks, and/or keep pruning it back (which gives you propagating stock). N. rafflesiana produces bulging lower pitchers which will turn deeply red-spotted given enough light, and is considered one of the more distinctive looking Nepenthes in terms of pitcher shape. My plants are used to a terrarium so moving to an outoor growing situation would probably not be good for the plants. Windosills also probably aren't a good idea for this species. Robert ################### From: Bob Beer Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 15:57:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: BACPS show In the recent posts regarding this show, I have seen two or three references to C. follicularis "giant form". Hmmm - this is the first time I have ever heard of this variety. How big is it? Where does it originate? (particular geographical region?) Any differen requirements? Thanks for any info. Bob ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 23:26:02 GMT Subject: Re: BACPS show >>In the recent posts regarding this show, I have seen two or three references >>to C. follicularis "giant form". Hmmm - this is the first time I have ever >>heard of this variety. How big is it? Where does it originate? (particular >>geographical region?) Any differen requirements? It is my understanding that this is a form which comes from clones of a specific plant/plants. I have no collection data on it, however, specimens I've observed produce pitchers which vary from half again as large as normal pitchers, to multiples of the size of the normal pitchers. This translates to 2-3" tall pitchers instead of the more normal ~1" pitchers. Personally I've never seen a 3" pitcher, and only a couple 2" pitchers. However the pitchers are definately slightly larger than normal. At the meeting I also saw what William Baumgartle (sp?) called a "small form" which supposedly maintains half-normal-size pitchers Robert ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 92 21:54:05 +0000 Subject: Re: BACPS meeting >... Cephalotus went for over $50.00 > >Robert Blimey! I'll think I'll get some more Cephs and try and get them to grow properly (our's are doing worse than ever - I'll have to repot them completely this season the old mix must be stale). It certainly looks like these plants are going to appreciate in value considerably over the next few years. Forget about the stock market and invest in Cephs! ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 92 22:06:36 +0000 Subject: Re: Moss >> Rick Walker and I were looking at CP this weekend, and >> he postulated the following: that the nice looking, fine >> grain, green moss which eventually grows on the surface >> of peat moss, can form a dense mat which seems to choke >> small plants to death. Rick also suggested that Utric- >> ularia could choke itself to death by filling a pot. There are a few types of moss in our pots, the worst of which is dark green with fine tough bundles of hairlike fronds (?) which form a kind of inverted cone shape (this is all from memory - I haven't had a close look for some time) and the fruiting bodied and on 1" or so tall threadlike stems with a club-top rather like and inverted waterdrop. This stuff grows around 1/2" deep and forms very thick mats (for Sarracenia pots we can lift the whole moss mat off in a single piece without much trouble - but you haven't got a hope of removing it from small plant pots unless you remove it tuft by tuft). The sand layer works with our Byblis (admittedly it grows under different conditions than most CPs) - but watch out for algae problems if it's wet. We also get some rather revolting algal blooms on our peatmoss - can be a problem for very small ground hugging plants such as weakly-growing Utrics. Liverworts can be a problem with Utrics too - but if you keep on removing them as soon as you spot them in the pots you can keep them under control, if not irradicate them. ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 92 22:28:29 +0000 Subject: Re: Giant Ceph. >>In the recent posts regarding this show, I have seen two or three references >>to C. follicularis "giant form". Hmmm - this is the first time I have ever >>heard of this variety. How big is it? Where does it originate? (particular >>geographical region?) Any differen requirements? Hmm, the Giant form may be a true form (the biggest pitcher we ever grow was about 1 3/4" tall (Gee! I didn't realise it was that big until I measure it just then!) and I have it bottled in metho/water mix after it suffered an accident which chopped it off the plant) but I have the feeling that it may be a sign of a happy healthy plant in ideal conditions. Our plants now struggle to grow 1/2" traps, so could be considered to be "small forms" now. Still a 3" Ceph would be an impressive sight (and would be worth $50 - well, maybe ;-) ). An aside to this discussion is a phenonemum (spel?) which I discovered when I bottled the aboveforementioned Ceph. trap. When I dropped it into Metho (methylated spirits) the clear liquid instantly turned white. I'm pretty sure this was due to the wax flakes in the trap either dissolving or just becoming suspended (or should that be dispersed?) in the metho. Rinsing the trap and refilling with fresh metho failed to produce the whiteness. BTW, the trap has lost any red pigmentation it might have had but the veins and kidney-shaped glands are easily visable, as are the "window" (aerolae spel?). The cell structure seems unchanged as the trap still feels quite crisp (or at least tough or firm). Try bottling a pitcher of you favourite Sarra. or Nepenthes when it's still it good condition, but approaching the end of it's life. Formalin type mixes may be better than my metho one, but metho is much more easily available and seems to work well. ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 92 16:21:14 GMT Subject: Re: BACPS meeting >>Blimey! I'll think I'll get some more Cephs and try and get them to >>grow properly (our's are doing worse than ever - I'll have to repot >>them completely this season the old mix must be stale). It certainly >>looks like these plants are going to appreciate in value considerably >>over the next few years. Forget about the stock market and invest in >>Cephs! Well this was an alleged giant form, but still, it was in 3" pots. The bottom line at auctions is that prices go artificially high as people get caught up in the moment. ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 10:58:24 +0000 Subject: Re: BACPS meeting (Ceph. prices) > > Well this was an alleged giant form, but still, it was in 3" pots. > The bottom line at auctions is that prices go artificially high as > people get caught up in the moment. It's true that people can and do tend to get carried away at auctions and pay more than the item is worth, but US$50 for even a giant Cephalotus is pretty amazing. I certainly hope the plant grows extremely well for the (un?)lucky buyer ;-). +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [The Banshee] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au | Department of Applied Physics | | MOKING IS A HEALTH HAZARD. | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 00:07:27 GMT Subject: Re: BACPS meeting (Ceph. prices) >>It's true that people can and do tend to get carried away at auctions and pay >>more than the item is worth, but US$50 for even a giant Cephalotus is pretty >>amazing. I certainly hope the plant grows extremely well for the (un?)lucky >>buyer ;-). One of the buyers of the 3 plants offered was none other than Joe Mazrimas :-). I figure that HE must know what he was doing, but I sure don't. r. ################### From: bob@wrs.com (Bob Cohen) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 14:34:08 PDT Subject: planting seed I've recently collected some seed from Dionea, Drosera Binata and Byblis Liniflora. Can I try planting it immediately, or should I stash it in the refrigerator for a couple of months? Also, any suggestions on where to get a cheap RO purifier? ################### From: ithaca!amber!phoebe@uunet.UU.NET (P. Couch) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 13:51:37 PDT Subject: Plants and seeds My byblis liniflora just keeled over and died, leaving me 3 pods of seeds, My books says that it's a perenial, a vendor at the botanical garden CP meeting tell me it's a annual. I left it sitting a dish of water outside, it doesn't look like its coming back. Can anyone out there have a byblis for a couple year tell me the cope? Davin, I received both packets and dumped the utriculas into pots of peat. I can't really tell the orientation of the non-leafy one, so I just buried the poor thing. The check is on the way. Some of the seeds look squished, do they normally look squished? Maybe I will plant them this weekend. The seed are tiny! I don't see how I can roll them in fungicide powder and retrieve them. Also, What's the best fungicide to use? Can I use the same ones for Sarracenia and drosera? Happy planting! P. ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 22:06:38 GMT Subject: Re: planting seed >>I've recently collected some seed from Dionea, Drosera Binata and Byblis >>Liniflora. Can I try planting it immediately, or should I stash it in >>the refrigerator for a couple of months? I believe that only plants which have cold winters need to have their seed reefed. Even if you don't. Or you can just sow it in winter and it should come up in spring, I think. At least that's what I did with some D. intermedia. D.binata and byblis should be sown immediately I believe. Note that in my experience Byblis doesn't take repotting well (it's just an annual anyhow), so sow the seed in a pot big enough to support the mature plants. As I recall, I once sowed byblis l. in pure perlite, or perlite w/ som live spahgnum, and the plants looked very neat against the white of the perlite (until slime started growing that is). I have 16 little Drosophyllum seeds BTW, which I will probably send out to the people who indicated an interest in free plants. If you're one of those people and don't think you have space to support a Drosophyllum, let me know and I'll send the seed to someone else. r. ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 22:08:52 GMT Subject: Re: Plants and seeds >>My byblis liniflora just keeled over and died, leaving me 3 pods of seeds, >>My books says that it's a perenial, a vendor at the botanical garden >>CP meeting tell me it's a annual. I left it sitting a dish of water outside, >>it doesn't look like its coming back. Can anyone out there have a byblis >>for a couple year tell me the cope? Byblis gigantea is a perrenial, but the smaller forms are annuals. You must save seed to keep the plants going. r. ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 15:30:29 PDT Subject: Re: Plants and seeds > My byblis liniflora just keeled over and died, leaving me 3 pods of seeds, > My books says that it's a perenial, a vendor at the botanical garden > CP meeting tell me it's a annual. I left it sitting a dish of water outside, > it doesn't look like its coming back. Can anyone out there have a byblis > for a couple year tell me the cope? I just planted some Byblis liniflora a few weeks ago. Germination was 10 days. You can go back and read my old posting for the details. Basically, I just spread the seeds on the surface of milled sphagnum peat, and set the pot in a tray of water. I used a plastic hood to maintain humidity and watered the soil with Benomyl fungicide prior to planting. I wouldn't recommend trying to roll Drosera or Byblis seeds in a powder. Also, B. liniflora is a annual in nature because of the dry, hot summers, but in cultivation it can be grown as a perennial. The important thing is that the soil should be constantly damp but never soggy. Soggy soil will rot the roots. I have a rather leggy B. liniflora that is over a year old and still growing and blooming. Byblis like high humidity. Outside might be too dry. > Davin, I received both packets and dumped the utriculas into pots of peat. > I can't really tell the orientation of the non-leafy one, so I just > buried the poor thing. Should work OK. I just buried all my small utrics under 1/4" of sand. They'll find their way up to the top just fine. It would good, though, to try to bury it with a translucent material (ie; sand), or at least make sure a few of the leaves are exposed at the surface. That way the plant can get it's bearings and photosynthesize while it is trying to establish itself. > The check is on the way. Some of the > seeds look squished, do they normally look squished? > Maybe I will plant them this weekend. I noticed that too. I think some of my Dionea seeds were crushed by the stamp-canceller machine. All the other seeds were so tiny that I think they survived with no damage. -- Rick ################### From: drosera@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Don Burden) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:45:25 -0400 Subject: CP Flash! The ICPS seed bank now has N. lowii seeds! No number is listed after the name, so I suppose Gordon has plenty seeds to sell. Gordon sent me a price list awhile back for California Carnivores. Someone was asking about P. ehlersii (or however its spelled). Gordon was selling them for $4 each, so you might ask to see if he has any left. Regarding stratification of seeds, Dionaea is said to require stratification, as well as D. intermedia, D. linearis, and just about all hiberniculum- forming drosera and pinguicula. B. liniflora is said to germinate quickly, but I've found that new seeds that have just come from an opened seed pod may need at least six months to germinate, while seeds that have been saved and refrigerated for a month or two germinate quicker. The magazine Nature Malaysiana notes that many nepenthes are not usually found in mossy rain-forest type soils where live sphagnum would be a good substitute for the plants in cultivation. There are those species that prefer 'ultrabasic' soils instead. A substitute soil for these could be the same mix used for many Mexican Pinguicula. The picture in this magazine shows an upper pitcher of N. northiana. I see somewhat of a resemblence of this species to my N. 'superba'. Also, N. maxima species and perhaps hybrids may be identified by a unique long, thin projection found on the underside of N. maxima lids, near the front. When does Barry supposed to be going to San Francisco and on to Hawaii? Robert or Rick, has he visited you yet? ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 00:54:09 GMT Subject: Re: CP >>Flash! The ICPS seed bank now has N. lowii seeds! No number is listed after >>the name, so I suppose Gordon has plenty seeds to sell. Hmmmmmm. >> >>The magazine Nature Malaysiana notes that many nepenthes are not usually >>found in mossy rain-forest type soils where live sphagnum would be a good >>substitute for the plants in cultivation. There are those species that >>prefer 'ultrabasic' soils instead. A substitute soil for these could be >>the same mix used for many Mexican Pinguicula. The picture in this magazine >>shows an upper pitcher of N. northiana. I see somewhat of a resemblence of >>this species to my N. 'superba'. Also, N. maxima species and perhaps hybrids >>may be identified by a unique long, thin projection found on the underside >>of N. maxima lids, near the front. Joe Mazrimas recommended an equal mix of live spahgnum, orchid bark, and perlite, for general Nepenthes soil, with a spoonful of 14-14-14 Osmocote mixed in. He said other soils have a tendence to "collapse", denying Nepenthes the airy roots they like. >> >>When does Barry supposed to be going to San Francisco and on to Hawaii? >>Robert or Rick, has he visited you yet? No, because I have been remiss in responding to Barry. Barry, I share a very small apt. with a friend, and he comes home around 3-4 am usually, so I don't even have floor space to put you up :-(. However, if you are in the Bay Area, give me a call and maybe we can do dinner or something: 415-325-1210. r. ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 19:53:25 PDT XSubject: Re: CP I'm not sure who I'm replying to since there is no name in the header and no signature, but what the hey :-), > Regarding stratification of seeds, Dionaea is said to require stratification, > as well as D. intermedia, D. linearis, and just about all hiberniculum- > forming drosera and pinguicula. B. liniflora is said to germinate quickly, > but I've found that new seeds that have just come from an opened seed pod may > need at least six months to germinate, while seeds that have been saved and > refrigerated for a month or two germinate quicker. I've got B. liniflora coming up fresh out of the pod, but so far only a few percent germination. > The magazine Nature Malaysiana notes that many nepenthes are not usually > found in mossy rain-forest type soils where live sphagnum would be a good > substitute for the plants in cultivation. There are those species that > prefer 'ultrabasic' soils instead. A substitute soil for these could be > the same mix used for many Mexican Pinguicula. The picture in this magazine > shows an upper pitcher of N. northiana. I see somewhat of a resemblence of > this species to my N. 'superba'. Also, N. maxima species and perhaps hybrids > may be identified by a unique long, thin projection found on the underside > of N. maxima lids, near the front. I'll look for that when/if my N. maxima cutting (from BACPS auction) pitchers up. > When does Barry supposed to be going to San Francisco and on to Hawaii? > Robert or Rick, has he visited you yet? No BAMR in sight. I think he was supposed to show up on the 18th. I sent him some email saying that I could meet him, but I don't think he has been reading his mail from Hawaii. BTW, I still don't have my ICPN! :-(. Has everyone else gotten theirs? -- Rick ################### From: ATLAS@JHUVMS.HCF.JHU.EDU Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:53 EST Subject: Re: CP We finally moved to our new place, and *most* of my cp survived the move. The major casualties are my two P. Primulifloras, which are fading away into ablivion...boo hoo! Rick, I got the CPN just today, so don't give up hope. Since it's sent out bulk mail, there seems to be quite a variation among receipt dates. Plus, I don't know if they are all sent out at the same time. I got a letter and some cp seed from Mike Chamberland last week. He hasn't given up on finding an internet connection yet, so we may hear from him some- time in the future. I still have the problem with my Nepenthes leaf tips browning. Any suggestions or ideas??? Our new place has lots of space for plants, but unfortunately most of it is well shaded. It also has a fish pond/pool, about 5' in diameter and maybe 1.5' deep. It is very yucky now, about half full of dead leaves, and appears to be the favorite bathing spot for the neighborhood dogs. I am considering eigher turning it into a utric pond, or filling it up and making it a peat bog. Since its position is completely shaded, I'm inclined to make it a utric pond. Any and all suggestions about such an undertaking would be appreciated, since I have very little experience in utrics, especially with aquatic ones. What kinds of species will survive a freeze? doug ################### From: dngess01@vlsi.ct.louisville.edu (Don) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 00:45:05 -0400 Subject: Re: CP stuff I tried fingering Leo Song's account a few weeks ago and this came back: ---- [fullerton.edu] LEOSONG Song, Leo C. LEOSONG not logged in Last login [Never] [No plan] ---- I tried it again a little while ago and this is what I got: ---- [fullerton.edu] LEOSONG Song, Leo C. LEOSONG not logged in Last login Tue 4-Aug-92 2:26PM-PDT [No plan] ---- It looks like Leo signed onto his account for the first time only a week ago. Here's a few comments about how my CP are growing: My D. falconeri are still living. The bigger of my two plants is producing leaves over an inch wide with a leaf tip that is fused together - giving the leaf a cup-like appearance, looks really strange. In the backyard, the Utric that is growing and flowering the best is U. dichotoma. It has produced at least six flower stalks. Its flowers are a fairly wide lavender 'fairy fan' type. U. graminifolia is also flowering. ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 17:12:43 GMT Subject: rupicola? I've seen various forms of CP mentioned as "X. rupicola", for example D. stolonifera rupicola. So, ahhh, what exactly is it in a given plant that defines if it has a rupicola growth pattern? Enquiring minds want to know. r. ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 14:28:24 PDT Subject: Re: rupicola? In message <9208171712.AA11331@batcomfs.Eng.Sun.COM> you write: > > I've seen various forms of CP mentioned as "X. rupicola", > for example D. stolonifera rupicola. So, ahhh, what > exactly is it in a given plant that defines if it has a > rupicola growth pattern? According to Webster's, "rupestrine" means growing on, or living among rocks; also rupicolous, or rupicoline. -- Rick ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 19:19:03 PDT Subject: Oregon Green Moss & Darlingtonia I repotted my languishing Darlingtonia this weekend. I had thought that its poor condition was solely due to a misdirected malathion application some time ago. It turns out that the Oregon Green moss and peat (75:25) planting mix was badly decayed and rotted. The plant showed extensive stolon production, but all above-ground foliage had withered. Everywhere that the tips of the stolons had gotten down to the "soggy" level of the Green moss, the stolon tips had rotted. Also, the Green moss is evidently not steam sterilized, and after some time will start regrowing from spores. The resulting live moss is pretty, but I found that it was quite tough and strong, and was effectively blocking the stolons from reaching the surface. I hated to further disturb the plant, but I cleaned away all the old potting material and transplanted it to peat/perlite (50:50), with a top dressing of (real) live sphagnum. I think I'm going to toss the rest of my Green moss inventory... Here's hoping for better results this time. -- Rick (Note to Davin: Last week I planted all the seed you sent. I'll keep you posted on germination results...) ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 21:50:31 +0000 Subject: Re: rupicola >>> exactly is it in a given plant that defines if it has a >>> rupicola growth pattern? > > Hmmm. So, Barry, Bros. Taylor, should such plants be grown in > rocky, minimalistic, soil? > > r. Mine's growing in a normal pot in the usual 1:1 peat:sand mix (I think - it's in the same mix I bought it in...) and it growing fine. It's only recently emerged from dormancy and has a produced it's rosette and a inch-long shoot or two. BTW I went to Langwarrin F&F Reserve on the weekend and found D. whittakerii and D. planchonii both in flower. Whittakerii isn't called the "Sweet Sundew" for nothing - the flowers has a pleasant honey fragrance, besides being very large. The flowers and buds on planchonii always look much to big for these thin plants - the bud's about the size of my little fingernail (1cm^2 approx). Also, there's some auriculatas around, but they're only in rosette stage - some in slightly drier conditions are a little more advanced having stems a couple of inches tall - no flowers yet. During my quick look I didn't find any of the other Drosera species (binata, spathulata, pygmae or glanduligera) or any Utrics or Polypomphloyx (too early yet). The usual winter lakes are around in the firebreak area (near the auriculatas) so the frogs are about too (although I have yet to see one). BFN ################### From: Surly but not Mutinous Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 10:26 EST Subject: Fertilizing As y'all know from my recent introduction, I'm completely new to CPs - I don't even have any plants yet! However, I've been trying to read up some on them, and I have a question: are there any conditions under which it is necessary to fertilize them? Slade states that he doesn't fertilize his plants, but he also hypes some CPs as insect controls in the home. If CPs are in an environment wherein insects are very few if any, do they need fertilization? I seem to remember reading a recommendation somewhere that [at least certain] CPs should be given "weak fertilizer" in the spring, but I can't place the source. Any comments? I plan upon growing CPs in a basement lightstand with my orchids and I VERY rarely see any insects (other than scale or spider mites!). Speaking of pests, I periodically spray my orchids with insecticides, miticides and fungicides: are there any of the common ones to which CPs are particularly sensitive? I would need to move the CPs elsewhere when I spray the orchids if so. As long as I'm begging advice, how about commenting upon some plants? I currently hope to start with _Sarracenia psittacina_ and _S. purpurea_ ssp. _venosa_ if I can find a source. (The _S. psittacina_ is my top choice.) I've scrapped plans for a _Nepenthes_, though: I think they just get too big for my lightstand. I also like some sundews and butterworts: if I run across any that can survive a beginner's rough culture, I'll probably give them a whirl. I use 40 watt wide-spectrum florescent bulbs, four per 60"x40" shelf; the lights are on for 16 hours max in summer and 11 hours min in winter. Temperatures are (85 deg. F max, 75 deg. F min) in summer and (75 deg. F max, 60 deg. F min) in winter, but of course this varies somewhat with the height of the shelf. Humidity generally varies between 40% and 80%, and I have fans that provide good - but not strong - air circulation. Thanks for your help, Larry ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 16:32:33 GMT Subject: Re: Fertilizing >>Speaking of pests, I periodically spray my orchids with insecticides, >>miticides and fungicides: are there any of the common ones to which >>CPs are particularly sensitive? I would need to move the CPs >>elsewhere when I spray the orchids if so. CP in general react badly to any chemicals, period. I'd advise moving them when spraying your orchids, and don't let them sit in water which is chemically. I grow my CP outdoors, and am continuously battling aphids, and occasionally scale. For localized scale I use alcohol on a Qtip. For massive infections of either I use a 1/2 str. diazanon solution. >> >>As long as I'm begging advice, how about commenting upon some plants? >>I currently hope to start with _Sarracenia psittacina_ and _S. >>purpurea_ ssp. _venosa_ if I can find a source. (The _S. >>psittacina_ is my top choice.) I've scrapped plans for a _Nepenthes_, >>though: I think they just get too big for my lightstand. I also like >>some sundews and butterworts: if I run across any that can survive a >>beginner's rough culture, I'll probably give them a whirl. S. purp venosa is the primary purp you'll find for sale, and the easiest to grow. I grow all my Sarracenia outdoors, like any potted plant, and they are doing great. If you grow them under lights you have to deal with inducing dormancy in winter. I've heard that these plants generate a natural anti-freeze in the winter, which prevents rot, but that this stuff is not generated unless the plants experience the cooling temps of fall. Of course, this could be hooey, but I read it somewhere. You can buy some `smaller' Nepenthes. N. gracilis requires warm temps all the time, but it gets beautiful, 1-1.5" tall, pitchers which get nice and pink under lights. The whole plant is small and can become quite bushy. A good terrarium plant. r. ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 15:01:30 PDT Subject: Lowrie seed list I just got a copy of Allen Lowrie's catalog in the mail. I can already tell that I'm going to make an order. Unfortunately, it is the wrong time of the year for tubers, gemmae or plants, so only seed is available. His catalog is the most complete that I have seen. Some highlights: Brocchinea reducta (plants) Genlisea (5 species) Roridula gorgonias Byblis gigantea Sarracenia rubra gulfensis heterophylla Polypompholyx (3 species) I'll probably order seed from each of these genera, along with seed for each of the D. petiolaris complex. Seed is $3.00/pack, $7.50/postage (Australian currency). I'm willing to coordinate a group order so we can save on postage. Also, the catalog lists two genera under "Trigger plant seed": Stylidium (30 species) Levenhookia (5 species) What are these? Are they carnivorous, or just curiosities? -- Rick ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 23:24:52 GMT Subject: Re: Oregon Green Moss & Darlingtonia >>Also, the Green moss is evidently not steam sterilized, and after >>some time will start regrowing from spores. The resulting live >>moss is pretty, but I found that it was quite tough and strong, and >>was effectively blocking the stolons from reaching the surface. I believe the green moss may also be dyed. >> >>I think I'm going to toss the rest of my Green moss inventory... I tried using Green Moss years ago, and quickly discovered major problems with it. Don't use it. Even peat moss is better than green moss. ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 11:57:54 +0000 Subject: Re: Lowrie Seed List >I just got a copy of Allen Lowrie's catalog in the mail. I can already >tell that I'm going to make an order. Unfortunately, it is the wrong >time of the year for tubers, gemmae or plants, so only seed is >available. > I think I'll write to Allen today! I've always wanted Genlisea's and it's always difficult to get them (and Polypomplyx for that matter). What's the current belief as to the carnivorous status of Roridula - it always seems to be included then excluded from the CP category. >Also, the catalog lists two genera under "Trigger plant seed": > > Stylidium (30 species) > Levenhookia (5 species) > >What are these? Are they carnivorous, or just curiosities? Both Stylidium and Levenhookia are non-CP curiosities. Levenhookia's common name is "Stylewort" but they are relatives of Stylidiums. The leaves vary considerably from rosettes to grass-like leaves, to sheaf-types. The main feature which gives them the name "Triggerplant" is the flowers which have the stamens and anthers bent back under (behind?) the petals and when an insect lands on the flower and triggers it the anther/stamen column swings around and hits the insect on the head/back, transferring pollen. We've got a few different species of Stylidiums (two of which have flower stalks just emerging so far) - one of these occurs locally at (you guessed it) L.F&F.R. (mentioned a day or so ago...). They seem to be quite easy to grow. I can recommend Rica Erickson's book "Triggerplants" which covers both Stylidiums and Levenhookias in good detail (very much like her "Plants of Prey"). BFN ################### From: dngess01@vlsi.ct.louisville.edu (Don) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 00:08:03 -0400 Subject: Re: CP stuff Regarding Sarracenia under flourescent lights - it would be more difficult as most Sarracenia grow best in full sunlight and they require dormancy in winter. A good beginner's species would a tropical drosera like D. capensis, binata, aliciae, adelae, montana, spatulata. These grow easily from root cuttings that can be supplied by just about any of the people in this group for free. For a soil, you can use plain peat moss and perlite (about 1:1). Don't use the Hyponex peat moss (I've bought a bag of this before and it looks strange - black instead of the usual brown powder and it will decay and start stinking soon when kept constantly moist). Also, don't use 'peat', which is broken-down peat moss. As for fertilizing CP, I wouldn't try root fertilizers on any of the plants as it would change the pH and break down the soil. Fertilizer is generally not needed since it is fairly risky as some CP are more sensitive to it than others. Also, many of the tropical drosera are fast growers and will flower from seed in only about 4-6 months anyway. I don't believe Roridula is an honest-to-goodness CP in the sense that it uses the caught insects to add nutrients to the plant, but it does have 'dewy' leaves like a drosera and is capable of trapping quite a few insects. The stem of the common petunia is also 'dewy' and is capable of trapping very small gnats too. ################### From: Surly but not Mutinous Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 09:52 EST Subject: Pot Size Slack, in his book _Carnivorous Plants_, talks about three types of [round] pots: full length (height = diameter), dwarf or half-pot (height = .75 diameter) and seed pan (height = .5 diameter). These roughly correspond to what are known in the U.S. as "standard", "azalea" and "bulb pans." For _Sarracenia psittacina_, Slack recommends a 5-inch diameter dwarf pot. My question is, for "recumbant" species like _S. psittacina_, why wouldn't one use as broad a pot as possible? 8-inch diameter pots of all types are pretty easy to come by in the U.S., and such a pot has 2.5 times the surface area of a 5-inch diameter pot. Is there some problem with "extra" mix going stale and causing problems (this happens with orchids), so that one tries to minimize pot size? If so, one could use a bulb pan which would minimize the volume of mix *AND* provide the "high water table" that Slack recommends. By the way, what happens when one immerses an _S. psittacina_ plant that is potted in a mix containing light materials such as peat moss and perlite: don't these materials float to the top and make a considerable mess? Or is the mix wet enough to start that this doesn't happen? Seems like the perlite - at least the material on the surface - would float anyway. Larry ################### From: Online Consultant Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 12:21:20 EDT Subject: Hello >I currently hope to start with _Sarracenia psittacina_ and _S. >purpurea_ ssp. _venosa_ if I can find a source. (The _S. >psittacina_ is my top choice.) I've scrapped plans for a _Nepenthes_, You might want to hold off on that order. A friend of mine is sending me a large shipment of plants he collected between Florida and Texas (from scheduled destruction sites or stable habitats). Among these plants are S.psittacina, S. purp venosa, S. leucophylla, and more. From his description, I do not have enough room to grow these plants, so there will probably be much up for grabs (I'll post as soon as I get them). Also, I've got plenty of D. capensis plants if you want one. These are good hardy plants with enough size to make them attractive >up some on them, and I have a question: are there any conditions >under which it is necessary to fertilize them? Slade states that he Nepenthes enjoy a good dilute fertilizer feeding every now and then (on foliage or in the pitchers) and I read somewhere the tuberous sundews like full strength fertilizer when they're growing. >buried the poor thing. The check is on the way. Some of the >seeds look squished, do they normally look squished? No, they shouldn't look too squished. I don't have much experience sending seed through the mail and I may have made a mistake. If they look really ravaged, I'll pay for the packets. Just let me know which ones were damaged. This goes for you as well Rick. Oh yes. I got both of the checks OK. Thanks guys. In case you were wondering, here's what I ordered: S. flava hetero S. leucophylla tall D. platypoda Mixed (large) Rick, if you're making an order to Lowrie, I'd be interested in getting something as well. Later, Davin ################### From: Online Consultant Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 12:26:02 EDT Subject: Re: CP >major casualties are my two P. Primulifloras, which are fading away into >ablivion...boo hoo! Ya know, I've got some P. primuliflora 'TYPE' that's doing very well if you want some. >I still have the problem with my Nepenthes leaf tips browning. Any >suggestions or ideas??? Is the soil too compact or degraded? Are the plants standing in water? Enough humidity and/or light? I was having trouble with a N.maxima a little while ago. The leaves got big brown blotches that were crisp and dead. I moved it outside and the plant perked right up. Now it's sending up a beautiful green leaf (albiet slower because of the reduced humidity). ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 12:18:25 PDT Subject: Re: Pot Size Larry, > By the way, what happens when one immerses an _S. psittacina_ plant > that is potted in a mix containing light materials such as peat moss > and perlite: don't these materials float to the top and make a > considerable mess? Or is the mix wet enough to start that this > doesn't happen? Seems like the perlite - at least the material on the > surface - would float anyway. I usually top-dress the pot with sphagnum or sand to cover up the perlite mix. You're right - if you don't put a layer of something else on top, the perlite will float right out and make a mess. I don't have any problem with peat though, once it is wet it seems to knit together and resist floating. -- Rick ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 19:52:48 GMT Subject: Re: Pot Size >>Slack, in his book _Carnivorous Plants_, talks about three types of >>[round] pots: full length (height = diameter), dwarf or half-pot >>(height = .75 diameter) and seed pan (height = .5 diameter). These >>roughly correspond to what are known in the U.S. as "standard", >>"azalea" and "bulb pans." For _Sarracenia psittacina_, Slack Thanks for posting the translations. I wish Slack wrote in American :-). >>recommends a 5-inch diameter dwarf pot. My question is, for >>"recumbant" species like _S. psittacina_, why wouldn't one use as >>broad a pot as possible? 8-inch diameter pots of all types are pretty >>easy to come by in the U.S., and such a pot has 2.5 times the surface >>area of a 5-inch diameter pot. Is there some problem with "extra" mix >>going stale and causing problems (this happens with orchids), so that >>one tries to minimize pot size? If so, one could use a bulb pan which >>would minimize the volume of mix *AND* provide the "high water table" >>that Slack recommends. I've never heard of the stale theory, for CP. However I've noted previously that plants seem to get larger if you put them in big pots. My #1 theory is that small pots allow the soil to heat up faster in warm temps, and also that the decreased surface area may well cause the soil/roots to not get enough air circulation. >> >>By the way, what happens when one immerses an _S. psittacina_ plant >>that is potted in a mix containing light materials such as peat moss >>and perlite: don't these materials float to the top and make a >>considerable mess? Or is the mix wet enough to start that this >>doesn't happen? Seems like the perlite - at least the material on the >>surface - would float anyway. At least one grower has told me he doesn't like using perlite because it floats. However, it is much lighter than using sand, and I think a soil mix w/ perlite lasts longer than one with sand. Anyhow, I now use perlite/peat for most of my plants, topdressed with either live spahgnum or just plain peat. The only other soilmix I use is straight life spahgnum and I don't think there are many plants (at least the ones commercially available) which can't do fine in peat/perlite. Robert ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 12:21:32 MST XSubject: Re: Pot Size Hello all, Barry here: >With the Droseras, you certainly don't see as much complex >cross-breeding as in Nepenthes, eg: >N. x rutzii = > [[northiana x mixta] x [maxima superba x veitchii]] Rick: This is of course because (apparently in general) the Drosera hybrids are sterile and so cannot proceed beyond F1 hybrids. > Rick Walker and I were looking at CP this weekend, and > he postulated the following: that the nice looking, fine > grain, green moss which eventually grows on the surface > of peat moss, can form a dense mat which seems to choke > small plants to death. Rick also suggested that Utric- > So, Barry, or other CP Gods on the net, what say you? Robert: This moss is one of the banes of my existence. I hate it! I'm constantly plucking it out of my seedlings pots. Michael Chamberland calls it nose-hair moss. But he thinks it actually improves the growth of his N. American Pings. I see no good in this plant at all. Incidentally, "CP God" may be a bit much. I suspect that "Master of All You Survey" would suffice, but I may just be modest. :) >Also, any suggestions on where to get a cheap RO purifier? Look in the yellow pages (wherever Culligan is listed). You may find it cheaper to rent than buy, because there are expensive filters that must be replaced periodically. >My byblis liniflora just keeled over and died, leaving me 3 pods of seeds, >My books says that it's a perenial, a vendor at the botanical garden >CP meeting tell me it's a annual. I left it sitting a dish of water outside, B. liniflora can be grown both ways, but when I grow it as a perennial I've only succeeded in growing it as a short-lived (i.e. 2 years) one. >>According to Webster's, "rupestrine" means growing on, or living among >>rocks; also rupicolous, or rupicoline. >Hmmm. So, Barry, Bros. Taylor, should such plants be grown in >rocky, minimalistic, soil? Again my cage is rattled. Well, mine is doing fine in just a plain old peat/sand mix like the others. Which brings me to the question of CP and fertilizer which was posed...I fertilize *only* the tuberous Drosera, and use label strength Miracid 1/week for this (when growing). The question about the carnivory of Roridula is easily answered. For a time it was thought these plants (R. gorgonias, dentata) were carnivorous. But it was found that the sticky bug catching agent is a resin and not a mucilage. This meant assimilation of bugs was not occuring, which I think was later verified using bugs doped with radioactive isotopes. Of course, you could theorize that perhaps the dead bugs would then wash into the soil around the plant and act as a fertilizer.... Also, looking at the recent lowrie list, I'm compelled to remind you that Lowrie is a "splitter" while Peter `Utricularia' Taylor is a "lumper." The latter botanist has lumped the genus Polypompholyx into a subgenus of the genus Utricularia. I've jokingly chided Allen about this when ordering seed from him. ************** Well CPers, I'm back from a very nice two weeks in Hawaii with a bunch of biologists. It was great fun taking field trips with such learned folk and researchers, as well as getting out on my own. I knew enough botany that they always assumed I was a botanist, and we surprised when they'd discover I was actually an astronomer. I've discovered that Hawaii is indeed in bad shape. Some numbers...Of the 1100-1300 plants originally on the islands, about 30% are endangered or extinct. There are 4000 species of introduced plants, about 50 of which are noxious weeds destroying the ecosystems. 70 % of all U.S. extinctions occurred in Hawaii. Add to this a dreadful problem with feral pigs, dogs, cats, rabbits, rats, and mongooses which are further destroying the area. In settled areas it is very difficult to find a single native species! But we had a blast, mucking around in the rain- and fern-forests, learning the latin and local names of plants. Huge Cibotium spp. tree ferns, Acacia koa and Metrosideros forests, epiphytic liverworts, etc. My brother and I took a day to hike along a trail through rainforest and over aa and pahoehoe lava to get to Pu'u o'o, a small volcano. We climbed it and looked into the crater to see a roiling lava lake! Incredible! We hiked over 1 month old lava fields and jumped over cracks glowing red to see splatter cones---pillars of fresh rock housing molten lava you could see, that is if you held your breath long enough and didn't mind singed eyebrows! Other than the Big Island we hit Oahu and Maui where we hiked more, snorkelled in 150' visibility water (with manta rays and turtles), and for a real tourist blast we surfed off Waikiki beach. I never surfed before, but on my third wave I was standing on the boarding sailing in to shore! It's pretty easy! Maybe I'm no Frankie Avalon or Duke, but I can die now knowing I've surfed. As for CP, only two species occur on the islands. D. anglica is found in the Ala kai swamp on Earl's Island, and U. gibba is found someplace else (I don't know where). Sphagnum is found on at least three of the islands, and bogs exist of most of the big islands. Only three native orchids, I understand, although a weedy introduced "cane orchid" is found almost everywhere. Actually, Hawaii is depauperate in species because of the difficulty involved in getting seeds there. But once a plant gets there, it forms new species rapidly and most of the native flora is endemic. Earl, you kama aina you! Sorry we didn't meet up---I never made it to your island, and you were on the mainland anyway! Rick: Thanks for meeting me in the airport. I'm really sorry we didn't have more time to talk, but I'm sure you know how it is. Next time, next time. Oh lordy, look at all the work I've got to do! BAMR ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 20:25:50 GMT Subject: Re: >>Robert: This moss is one of the banes of my existence. I hate it! I'm >>constantly plucking it out of my seedlings pots. Michael Chamberland calls >>it nose-hair moss. But he thinks it actually improves the growth of his N. >>American Pings. I see no good in this plant at all. Incidentally, "CP God" >>may be a bit much. I suspect that "Master of All You Survey" would suffice, >>but I may just be modest. :) Well, you being an astronomer and all.... Damn, I guess I'll now have to spend time ripping up the nose-hair layer on many of my pots. Hmmm. I wonder if I can use my old electric shaver to keep the stuff trimmed... >> >>Again my cage is rattled. Well, mine is doing fine in just a plain old >>peat/sand mix like the others. Which brings me to the question of CP and >>fertilizer which was posed...I fertilize *only* the tuberous Drosera, and >>use label strength Miracid 1/week for this (when growing). Do you notice any significant difference `twixt fertilized vs. non fertilized plants? Does Miracid come in only one mix. Do you do foliar or root type fertilizing? On fertilizer: I'm now using weekly (when I remember to at least) foliar sprayings of either 1/4 or 1/2 str. "Ephiphytes Delight" Tillandsia fertilizer on my Nepenthes. I think it helps a bit, but growing outdoors vs. indoors gives me a more significant difference I think. >> >>The question about the carnivory of Roridula is easily answered. For a time >>it was thought these plants (R. gorgonias, dentata) were carnivorous. But it >>was found that the sticky bug catching agent is a resin and not a mucilage. >>This meant assimilation of bugs was not occuring, which I think was later >>verified using bugs doped with radioactive isotopes. Of course, you could >>theorize that perhaps the dead bugs would then wash into the soil around the >>plant and act as a fertilizer.... Or if you count the Assasin Bug which lives there and sucks the trapped bugs try :-). BTW, I saw some coverage of Roridula on a PBS show a while back. The overall plant reminded me strongly of the "monstor" in colour horror movie I saw as a kid called "Man Eater of Hydra". In a similar vein (:-]) there was "The Navy vs. the Night Monsters". >> >>As for CP, only two species occur on the islands. D. anglica is found in the ^^^^^^^ I don't suppose you managed to bring back some seed? I've been wanting to get D. anglica for some time to add to my US cp collection. Speaking of which: my D. x hybrida (filiformis X intermedia?) has gone dormant due to hot weather I think. Same w/ some D. capillaris I have in my bog garden. However, I seem to have perhaps two different types of D. intermedia. All have come from seed, but due to the fact that I've never actually planted any D. intermedia seed I don't know their pedigree. One plant of a cluster is noticeable larger than the rest, and it hasn't gone dormant. As well as being larger, its redder. I don't know if it's a more robust plant, or if it's just further along in the growth cycle. I'm curious to find out. I'll say it again: the US has a comparatively large number of species and forms of CP, which can make quite an interesting collection. I've been thinking how interesting it would be to obtain D. rotundifolia from different areas, and compare their growth habit in common conditions. I don't have an optimal setup for it however. Anyhow, I guess I just wante to advocate not getting caught up in "rare plant" fever. Now if I could just find a source of correctly ID'd D. brevifolia. D. anglica, and D. linearis. Along with some US pings. Barry, BTW, those mystery ping-lets you sent me are still doing good. I've put them in the bog garden. I figure they may bloom by next season, allowing me to ID them. On D. rotundifolia: this is a much maligned, but quite variable, plant. Some forms have petioles almost as wide as the leaf spoon, but the entire plant is only an inch in diameter, while other forms can get upto (I've heard) 6" in diameter with thin petioles and quarter sized leaf spoons. I have a number of thin petioled versions in my bog garden, but so far none are giant. This may change w/ another season however. On Sarrs: my ~4-5 yr. old S. flava is putting up phyllodia already, as is my S. leuc. Is this normal for these species at this time of the year? Should I be giving even more water? r. ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 14:53:04 +0000 Subject: Genlisea growing/propagating What conditions are required to propagate Genlisea's from seed, and to keep the plants happy? The only reference I have is Adrian Slack's "letter" that was published in his "Insect Eating Plants & How to Grow Them", which only covers one species. Also, can someone give me descriptions of the various species that Allen Lowrie offers as seeds (this list appeared here a few days ago on the CP mailing list). ################### From: Earl Nishiguchi (808) 245-8274 Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 17:51 HST XSubject: Re: Genlisea growing/propagating > fields and jumped over cracks glowing red to see splatter cones---pillars of > fresh rock housing molten lava you could see, that is if you held your breath > long enough and didn't mind singed eyebrows! > gee, I think you saw more than I did. I grew up only 25 miles south of the Volcano area where you explored. I love the cool weather there...also the plant life. > I was standing on the boarding sailing in to shore! It's pretty easy! Maybe > I'm no Frankie Avalon or Duke, but I can die now knowing I've surfed. I have never surfed... Maui is a popular place for visitors. Did you have a chance to go up to Haleakala Crater? Beautiful... > > Earl, you kama aina you! Sorry we didn't meet up---I never made it to your > island, and you were on the mainland anyway! > Maybe there will be a next time for you to come and visit (and I will be around). Will make an attempt to go with some of the science teachers here at the College to go to the Wahiawa bog here (easier than the Alakai swamp) to look for D. anglica. ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 17:25:50 MST XSubject: Re: Genlisea growing/propagating >Do you notice any significant difference `twixt fertilized vs. non >fertilized plants? Does Miracid come in only one mix. Do you do >foliar or root type fertilizing? Miracid comes as a powder with instructions for dilution in water. I mix it full strength and spray it on all leaf lamina. This has given me larger plants. Tubers are also bigger and more plentiful. Yes, I did run full-season tests on fertilized vs. non-fertilized plants. I know Rob Maharajh applies fertilizer in lower doses, but applies it to the soil, with good results. N.B. Use Miracid, NOT Miracle-grow! >>As for CP, only two species occur on the islands. D. anglica is found in the >I don't suppose you managed to bring back some seed? I've been Good question. No I didn't. First, I didn't see any. But second, the population of plants is small and Hawaii is very threatened biologically as it is. It's interesting to think that since most of the Hawaiian plants have evolved new species, perhaps in a few million years (just a tick of geologic time) we would have had a new Drosera species. I believe I read the Hawaiian plants don't form hibernacula, but live as annuals. A common weed encountered is a Mimosa spp. I found one such "sensitive plant" that was so damn sensitive I grabbed a few seed pods. But this is an introduced weed to Hawaii, so I felt guilt-free! >On D. rotundifolia: this is a much maligned, but quite variable, plant. True the plant can get big, but I think 6" diameter plants and quarter-sized lamina is a bit overdoing it. Largest lamina I've seen were 1.5 cm wide (in the Jersey Pine Barrens, shade grown plants) where Don Schnell also reports such big plants. I've found plants can get very big once they're at least three years old, especially grown very wet in live Sphagnum. >On Sarrs: my ~4-5 yr. old S. flava is putting up phyllodia already, as is >my S. leuc. Is this normal for these species at this time of the year? It's OK. They're just getting ready for winter. Maybe also insurance in case the pitchers may die back or get nailed by a brush-fire. >What conditions are required to propagate Genlisea's from seed, and to keep I scattered seed from my G. hispidula on dead very wet Sphagnum, full sun, and they are coming up like mad. My other plant, tentatively ID'd by someone else is flowering, so I'll soon check if it is G. violacea (the claimed moniker). > I have never surfed... Maui is a popular place for visitors. Did > you have a chance to go up to Haleakala Crater? Beautiful... Yeah, we were up there on an arthropod field trip. Extraordinary. I'd been looking forward to seeing the Debautia and Argyroxiphium spp. up there (silver-swords). For those of you unfamilar with this, there are a few genera of plants which made it to Hawaii (probably from the U.S.) as a single species and have since evolved into two completely different looking and behaving genera. One, the Debautia, looks like a small shrub. The other (Silver swords) looks like a Yucca and flowers just once before dying. The amazing thing is these two genera still can interbreed freely, even though they are completely different in appearance and habit! They are Composites. BAMR ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 92 12:10:24 +0000 Subject: Re: Mimosa >A common weed encountered is a Mimosa spp. I found one such "sensitive >plant" that was so damn sensitive I grabbed a few seed pods. But this >is an introduced weed to Hawaii, so I felt guilt-free! We've grown Mimosa pudica on a couple of occasions, but it either never reached flowering age or died shortly afterwards. However, it is a fairly easy to grow plant (which is why it can be a weed problem - rather like U. subulata ;-) and good fun too. Add it to your collection of "active" plants with your VFTs and Triggerplants... BTW, there is another species of Mimosa which is a real weed at the top end of Australia at the moment - this one grows to tree size and (from memory) has large spines/thorns too (M. pudica has a few smallish spines). >>What conditions are required to propagate Genlisea's from seed, and to keep > >I scattered seed from my G. hispidula on dead very wet Sphagnum, full sun, and >they are coming up like mad. My other plant, tentatively ID'd by someone else >is flowering, so I'll soon check if it is G. violacea (the claimed moniker). What about year-round temperature requirements. I think I'll have to hook up a decent heating unit for the fish-tank to grow them as our winter temps have dropped to 0 C a couple of times this year (we haven't had much frost this year though which is unusual). One last word - it looks like our S. rubra in the outdoor peatbog is going to flower this spring. This will be the first one ever - so I am convinced that the wintering of this species (and some of our other CPs) is an absolute must. The few degrees difference between outside and greenhouse temperatures must make all the difference. ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Mon, 24 Aug 92 12:44:53 PDT Subject: Re: Lowrie Order > D. capensis "Crestate form" What is the distinguishing characteristic of the "crestate form"? I've read that the flower scapes are "Y"-shaped and the sepals are joined. This doesn't seem to be that unusual. About 1/3 of my capensis plants have double or triple forked scapes. Do I have some wierd plants? - Or does "crestate" mean something else? -- Rick ################### From: dngess01@vlsi.ct.louisville.edu (Don) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 92 23:32:38 -0400 Subject: Crestate D. capensis >> D. capensis "Crestate form" > >What is the distinguishing characteristic of the "crestate form"? I've >read that the flower scapes are "Y"-shaped and the sepals are joined. >This doesn't seem to be that unusual. About 1/3 of my capensis plants >have double or triple forked scapes. > There was an article in CPN about the crestate D. capensis a few years ago. I wouldn't know if it would breed true from seeds though. It looks quite different from the usual types. The 'crestate' form as seen in the photo in CPN has very thick deformed roots and stem. It grows various types of deformed leaves, like those with petioles 2x the normal width and then branching into two glandular leaves. It looked to me like it had some sort of disease similar to clubroot. ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 16:45:50 GMT Subject: stuff I had an interesting conversation with a CP collector in SoCal last night. Among the interesting bits: * he obtained D. regia from Hungry Plants, the place that's cloning plants and selling them in agar. I doubt this species is one regularly offered. * Nepenthes are getting harder and harder to get, particularly species, and what you can get is more expensive. So don't be killing off those Nepenthes y'all, hear? * He propagates D. schizandra by growing it in a glass bowl. Where the roots hit the glass bowl underground, and get sunlight, they grow up into new plants. No messy leaf cuttings, etc. I may try this with a D. prolifera, and some of those clear plastic, square, display boxes they sometimes sell flytraps in. I was thinking of trying this for Utrics too. Now, a request: what do people grow the Queensland Sundews in? D. adelae, D. prolifera, and D. schizandra? I've only had decent luck growing them in long grain spahgnum, preferably live. Robert ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 17:48:09 GMT Subject: Re: Crestate D. capensis >>then branching into two glandular leaves. It looked to me like it had some >>sort of disease similar to clubroot. Not to be a wag, but that sounds like what some of my plants have looked like after an aphid infestation. Anyone want a "crestate" form of Dionea? Heck, I'll bet I could sell a BUNCH of 'em to rich collectors :-). r. ################### From: ATLAS@JHUVMS.HCF.JHU.EDU Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 14:41 EST Subject: CP bogs I just had a *very* interesting conversatin with a botanist who works for the state of Maryland. I called him to find out if there are any CP bogs in Md.; he said that there are several, but he could only give me the location of one. But the interesting thing he had to say, was that in several bogs, a CP grower had artificially introduced numerous CP species that are *not* indigenous to Maryland. He was irate about this, said it screws things up, since they want to protect _naturally_ occurring species. Once some species are artificially introduced, they can't tell which are "supposed" to be there, and which aren't. I sorta guessed that the individual behind all this is John Hummer, and the State Botanist said that he thinks that Hummer did it, but only has annecdotal evidence. He also implied that he has heard that Hummer field collects. I also learned that in addition to numerous utrics and Sarracenia Purpurea, Maryland has Drosera Rotundifolia, Intermedia, and capillaris. I was very surprised to hear that capillaris is found this far north, as Don Schnell's book states that its northern range is in the middle of Virginia. I got the name and location of one bog that supposedly has some sarr purpurea, and I might take a little field trip later this week to check it out. I also got to meet Larry Tabacco last week, and gave him a couple of plants: Sarr purpurea and Drosera capensis. I told him he was doing me a favor by taking a weedy capensis off my hands. me doug ################### From: Earl Nishiguchi (808) 245-8274 Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 11:06 HST Subject: Re: Mimosa > We've grown Mimosa pudica on a couple of occasions, but it either > never reached flowering age or died shortly afterwards. However, it is > a fairly easy to grow plant (which is why it can be a weed problem - > rather like U. subulata ; Did not know that it was called that..M. pudica... we call it 'sleeping grass' or 'hila-hila'. It is a pest and I'm always trying to get rid of it from our lawn. They seem to grow in cycles....they come and go ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 21:28:25 GMT Subject: Re: Mimosa >A common weed encountered is a Mimosa spp. I found one such "sensitive >plant" that was so damn sensitive I grabbed a few seed pods. But this >is an introduced weed to Hawaii, so I felt guilt-free! I thought "sensitivity" related to plant size: the bigger the plant, the less sensitive it is. >> >> Did not know that it was called that..M. pudica... we call it 'sleeping >> grass' or 'hila-hila'. It is a pest and I'm always trying to get rid >> of it from our lawn. They seem to grow in cycles....they come and go I grew it from seed as a kid, before I got into CP. It was easy to germinate, but I never got the knack of watering it down. Which is why I grow bog plants now :-). Anyhow, the little ones were very agile, but grew tall and leggy quickly. Pruning them back gave you a bushier plant, but there was a great deal of guild associated with watching the whole plant droop when you cut off a piece... r. ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 16:56:06 MST XSubject: Re: Mimosa >can trade plants sometime next year. I'll probably be sending seedlings >of D. madagascariensis to Barry, Robert Allen, and Rob M. sometime next week. Ooh ooh! >What about year-round temperature requirements. I think I'll have to hook up I've had good luck keeping the temperature above 10 C year round. Certainly avoid frost with Genlisea! >I just had a *very* interesting conversatin with a botanist who works for the Doug, as you probably know, the cause of most extinctions is habitat destruction and the second worst is introduced species. While introduced CPs may not be very invasive (except Utrics!) they certainly can screw up the local gene pool for the native plants of the same species. >>>A common weed encountered is a Mimosa. I found one such "sensitive plant" >>We've grown Mimosa pudica on a couple of occasions, but it either never >Did not know that it was called that..M. pudica... we call it 'sleeping Hold yer horses, Tex! Not all Sensitive plants are M. pudica! The Legume family is broken up into three large tribes. The Mimosa tribe (spelled something like Mimosoidae) contains many species, some of which are sensitive. In fact, I'm going out on a limb claiming Earl's "Hila-hila" is a Mimosa sp. But it is true that the commonly grown one is often ID'd as M. pudica. Leo Song demonstrated for me that the tree that makes "star-fruit" (available in large produce stores) is also slightly sensitive. BAMR ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 11:01:37 +0000 Subject: Re: D. adelae etc. > * He propagates D. schizandra by growing it in a glass bowl. > Where the roots hit the glass bowl underground, and get > sunlight, they grow up into new plants. No messy leaf > cuttings, etc. I may try this with a D. prolifera, and > some of those clear plastic, square, display boxes they > sometimes sell flytraps in. I was thinking of trying this > for Utrics too. > > Now, a request: what do people grow the Queensland Sundews in? > D. adelae, D. prolifera, and D. schizandra? I've only had > decent luck growing them in long grain spahgnum, preferably > live. Our D. adelae muliplies via it's own natural root-cuttings in a similar way to the D. schizandra method above. When the root emerge through the drainage holes, they form new plants (D. binata's do this too). Ours is growing in (you guessed it) peat/sand mix (I guess it's about 2:1 peat:sand) and has grown very well in the fish-tank with what's left of the Nepenthes, even after a major set back when it dried out and all of the rosettes growing from the top of the pot (a couple of dozen or so) died. New plants are growing from the roots a la D. capensis. The pots sit above a couple of inches of water on stands and there isn't any heating. (All these plants may make way for any Genlisea seedlings I grow if Allen Lowrie still has seed available ;-) ) ################### From: jmh@tko.vtt.fi (Michael Hasemann) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 8:48:29 +0000 Subject: carnivourous plants Hello, I fetched this address somewhere and I like to know what is behind. Does it deal with carnivorous plants ? I am interested (member of the ICPS) to get more information about it. Thanks. Regards and greetings from Finland where it is cloudy today and the temperature is 7 degrees. Joerg-Michael Hasemann ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 20:57:49 GMT Subject: CP listserv news Joerg-Michael, indeed, this is a listserve devoted to the discussion of insec-eating, aka. carnivorous, plants. It's grown into a listserve from an informal mailing list, and I think it currently has 30 or so members, with about 10-12 people who contribute on a semi-regular basis. In a nutshell, there are people from the US, (I think) Canada, and Australia on the list. Welcome. We spend our time discussing local CP events, and passing on growth information and plant suppliers. The listserve supports getting a listing of species grown by members, but it isn't complete. If you join us it's customary to post a short intro you and your involvement with CP. Robert ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 10:37:49 +0000 Subject: Quick (?) questions Just a few quick CP questions: Does anyone grow or know the source of Triphyophyllum seeds? Is this still regarded as a CP or is it just another Roridula? What is the difference between Polypompholyx westonii and the other two species - multifida and tenalla? Is it an annual too? Has anyone tried growing Brocchinia reducta (the carnivorous bromeliad)? What conditions (mainly temperature and watering wise) does it require? (The last two species are/were offered by Allen Lowrie - hopefully they're still available when I put in my order...) BFN ################### From: dngess01@vlsi.ct.louisville.edu (Don) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 23:02:27 -0400 Subject: Re: CP stuff D. madagascariensis: I sent 3 seedlings each to Barry and Robert Allen in the mail today. Expect them Saturday. I'll probably be sending this plant to others later. I've traded plants with Rob Maharajh recently and we've decided that the best way to send plants that take rather a long time in transit, as it does between Canada and USA, is to send them bare root in small plastic zip-lock baggies. Wet peat moss or sphagnum causes the crown to rot in the 10 days or so it take for the package to reach its destination. This is especially critical when sending plants like Pinguicula. Also, instead of going to the bother of boxing the plants and then making a special trip to the post office to mail it, small plants can just as easily be sent in an ordinary envelope and use thick corregated cardboard and/or bubble plastic to protect the plant from being squashed. Small size zip-lock bags can be bought from large electronics stores. Back to D. madagascariensis, my plants have been growing well outdoors in a peat moss/perlite mix (50:50). The species D. collinsiae is said to be a fertile hybrid between madagascariensis and burkeana. The plant produces leaves like D. intermedia, but has a caulescent growth habit (forms a stem) and can get to be a big plant like D. capensis. I got the seeds from the seed bank, so I'm not sure about the ID. I remember the seeds didn't look like intermedia seeds (which would be the species that looks the closest to madagascariensis when plant is small). ################### From: pal@tko.vtt.fi (Alasiuru Pekka) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 11:24:31 +0300 Subject: me Hello to all of you cp fans, I am new in this group and pleased to write some information myself and my cp enthusiasm. I got the addresses of this group from my colleague Michael Hasemann. I'm 35 years old computer specialist and one of my special hobbies is gardening and flowers and plants. I am interested also in bonsai trees and cacti as well as other succulents. My home is in the seaside town of Oulu here in Northern Finland in the end of Gulf of Bothnia. I have some years ago tried to grow the Finnish Drosera species inside but not succeeded, because they need the winter period. So I'm now trying to grow them up in my garden. Perhaps I succeed now. Ok I am now in the very beginning with this new area, and I'm also interested to have some tropical species. How to get seeds? Regards, Pekka Ala-Siuru ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 13:15:46 PDT Subject: Re: Quick (?) questions John, > Does anyone grow or know the source of Triphyophyllum seeds? Is this still > regarded as a CP or is it just another Roridula? It is listed in Jan Schlauer's list as carnivorous. Here's the citation: T. peltatum (HUTCH. & DALZ.) AIRY SHAW, KEW BULL. 1951:242 (1952) Basionym:Dioncophyllum peltatum HUTCH. & DALZ.; Sierra Leone, Liberia, Ivory Coast I've never seen the plant or seed for sale or in cultivation. Slack says the plant is nearly extinct in the wild. > Has anyone tried growing Brocchinia reducta (the carnivorous bromeliad)? > What conditions (mainly temperature and watering wise) does it require? Brocchinia didn't look too interesting to me - just another bromeliad... Does anyone know anything about Catopsis sp. (the carnivorous air-plant)? -- Rick ################### From: Online Consultant Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 16:30:29 EDT Subject: Re: Quick (?) questions Hey guys, > Has anyone tried growing Brocchinia reducta (the carnivorous bromeliad)? > What conditions (mainly temperature and watering wise) does it require? I know that Carl Taylor grows this plant and I'll be going up to see him this weekend, so I'll ask his conditions for you. BTW, I was growing D. adelae in some semi-transparent milk jugs for a while and noticed the schizandra-glass-bowl effect. I suppose this would be very good for any plants in live sphagnum, since it would allow the moss to grow along the sides of the container as well as on top. I'm trying this with a couple of my epiphytic utrics right now. We'll see what happens. Later, Davin ################### From: ATLAS@JHUVMS.HCF.JHU.EDU Date: 27 Aug 1992 18:19:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: CP Field Trip I took a little trip to the bog that the Md Botanist told me about. After an hour of fruitless searching, I finally found it. The bog itself was very small, and there are trees and shrubs encroaching upon it. But there were a few clumps of S. Purpurea, some growing in the clayey muck, and others growing a few precious beds of sphagnum. All the plants were quite mature, with rosettes approx. 18-24 inches across. I noted that the pitchers were all relatively devoid of insect prey. The thing that has me the most concerned, though, is that I didn't see *any* seedlings or young plants; maybe I missed them...but if not, it seems like a few years down the road, all the Sarrs will be gone. :( Today we went to Washington, DC to check out the Smithsonian Air & Space's Startrek exhibit, but I sneaked a peak of the U.S. Botanic Garden. They had two small bog exhibits with S. Minor, Purpurea, Flava, some VFT's, and a Drosera Filiformis. The guy watering the plants said that they have a botanist who is raising Nepenthes, but the gardens don't have the room to display them. About what time of the year do Sarr. seed pods ripen and split? It is very tempting to go back to the bog when this happens, and take some seeds. However, I am wrestling with my conscience about this... doug ################### From: ithaca!amber!phoebe@uunet.UU.NET (P. Couch) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 13:46:40 PDT Subject: Need help on Drosophyllum Robert Allen has just send me some drosphyllum seeds and I want to plant them, but don't know if it's a good time to do so, since it's fall already and the plant's an annual (under most condition). I am using natural light, so I can't control light intensity and the length of day. Does anyone have any idea? Tahnks in advance, P. ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 15:49:56 PDT Subject: Re: Florida Growers - News? > Has anyone heard news of our people in S. Florida (i.e. do Orgel Bramblett > and others still have businesses and/or homes)? Whoops! - it finally dawned on me that you were talking about Hurricane Andrew... Let's hope everything is OK. I suppose the growers could try to haul everything into the basement, but it would be a hard job. -- Rick ################### From: Bob Beer Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 15:37:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Quick (?) questions > > Has anyone tried growing Brocchinia reducta (the carnivorous bromeliad)? > > What conditions (mainly temperature and watering wise) does it require? > There are a couple of people growing it here. It seems to have a very high light requirement. If this requirement is not met, the plant still grows, but instead of forming the characteristic tube shape, the leaves open up and it grows like a typical bromeliad. > Brocchinia didn't look too interesting to me - just another bromeliad... > Does anyone know anything about Catopsis sp. (the carnivorous air-plant)? > Catopsis berteroniana is also a bromeliad. It is attractive with pale green to yellow-green leaves, and a whitish waxy bloom. It does like high humidity and does fine in a fairly warm greenhouse. I gave one to the U of Washington greenhouse about a year ago, and it has grown very well planted in a 50/50 mix of sphagnum and coarse orchid bark. It seems to catch mainly fungus gnats (but then there doesn't seem to be much else in the greenhouse in any large numbers, so I can't say what it would do out of doors). I would be interested to hear from growers of Cephalotus, what insects have been attracted and trapped by your plants. I had noticed that although Sarracenia and Nepenthes pitchers quickly fill with all sorts of insects, everything seemed pretty indifferent to Cephalotus, and I had never seen anything actually trapped. Other growers whom I asked about this had made the same observation. Since I had not seen or tasted (yes...I tasted it!) :) any type of sugary secretion on the Cephalotus pitchers, I figured it must attract some other prey. One afternoon as I was tending the plants I noticed a carpenter ant nearby (we have lots of them here), and on a whim, tossed it into the Cephalotus pot. It fairly attacked a pitcher, biting the ribs of the peristome as if it was trying to eat them. It took all of a second for it to "take the dive". So far, carpenter ants are the only insects I have found that seem to be attracted to Cephalotus. Even other ants ignore them. Does anyone have any information on: 1) what the main prey of Cephalotus is in the wild is, and 2) what the attractant is/what naturally occurring food does it mimic? (perhaps a fungus?) Thanks for any help on this one! Bob ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 23:17:02 GMT Subject: Re: Cephalotus Prey >>One afternoon as I was tending the plants I noticed a carpenter ant nearby >>(we have lots of them here), and on a whim, tossed it into the Cephalotus >>pot. It fairly attacked a pitcher, biting the ribs of the peristome as if >>it was trying to eat them. It took all of a second for it to "take the >>dive". >> Thanks for posting the interesting story about the ant. I've heard that ants are almost exclusively the prey of Cephalotus. Locally my plant is isolated from ants so it's not catching anything, but writers have claimed the pitcher and ribs of Ceph. are optimized for little ants to run up and fall in. ################### From: ATLAS@JHUVMS.HCF.JHU.EDU Date: 27 Aug 1992 20:21:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Drosophyllum Phoebe, Regarding Drosophyllum, I strongly suggest you consult one of Slack's books, and use his method (or a modification of it). Apparently, the plant is a perennial in nature, but in a constantly wet medium, it often acts as a biennial, not an annual. I have had decent success using Slack's "nested" pots method, but my two plants are only about a year old. You might want to hear other netters' ideas before you decide how to proceed. Some people suggest scratching or cutting the seeds before planting; I don't think it's necessary. If you don't have access to either of Slack's books, let me know. I can post his recipe. doug ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 17:46:22 PDT Subject: Re: Drosophyllum > pots method, but my two plants are only about a year old. You might want to > hear other netters' ideas before you decide how to proceed. I've got my two seedlings in 50:50 peat & perlite with 1 Tbsp dolomite per quart of soil. The grower that I got them from said that the Slack method was way too complicated and that he had good results just keeping the soil on the dry side. The two shoots were originally planted real close together in one peat pot. I gently pulled one of the two out and planted it in a separate pot. The other undisturbed plant got put into a second pot, root ball & all, with very minimal root disturbance. Now, two weeks later, the undisturbed seedling is 2" tall and quite robust. The transplanted seedling is only 1" tall, has 1/2 the number of leaves, and is quite sickly. So, from this experience, I would recommend planting one seed per pot in the final pot that you want the mature plant to grow in. These guys hate to be transplanted. Note for BAMR: I've got some seed set on U. calycifica 'purple-veins', and I seem to remember that you were interested in seeing if it would breed true... Was it this plant, or some other Utric? -- Rick ################### From: ATLAS@JHUVMS.HCF.JHU.EDU Date: 27 Aug 1992 20:47:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Drosophyllum When to sow? Slack suggests sowing in the spring, "so that the plants have developed woody stems by autumn." I brought my Drosoph. inside for the winter last year...anyone know how much cold these things can tolerate?? doug ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 00:52:54 GMT Subject: Re: Drosophyllum >>I've got my two seedlings in 50:50 peat & perlite with 1 Tbsp dolomite per >>quart of soil. The grower that I got them from said that the Slack method >>was way too complicated and that he had good results just keeping the soil >>on the dry side. I've grown D. both ways, and can't say enough good things about Slack-potting. Basically, you don't have to worry about over or under watering. You just put the slack potted plant in a water tray with the rest of the stuff. But to each their own. >>I brought my Drosoph. inside for the winter last year...anyone know how much >>cold these things can tolerate?? Mine was exposed to, I think, temps between 45-50 F. temps last year, outdoors in my plastic covered wire cage. It may have gotten down to about 40, but I didn't have a good therm. then. ################### From: dngess01@vlsi.ct.louisville.edu (Don) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 21:38:32 -0400 Subject: Re: CP stuff Damn! The envelopes that I sent to Barry and Robert with D. madagascariensis were returned today. Something about "non-standard packaging" with 10 cents additional postage requested. So, I put the extra stamps on the envelopes and remailed them - expect them next Monday. Reading the sticker on the envelope from the post office, the only thing that could have been wrong was the envelope exceeding 1/4-inch in thickness. The most they could have been though was 3/8-inch. Drosophyllum: If you're going to be growing it under artificial lights for the entire life of the plant, then it doesn't really matter when the seeds are planted. When is the order to Allen Lowrie going in and when do I send the money? ################### From: jmh@tko.vtt.fi (Michael Hasemann) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 9:22:45 +0000 Subject: Pinguicula villosa Hello CP-growers, I am new on this mailing list and I have been asked to give a short introduction. Here it is. Before I came to Finland I have been growing carnivorous plants in Germany for over 10 years. After moving here, which is place of 100000 citizens called Oulu and approximately 120 km south of the northern polar circle, I gave up my hobby due to lack of space and equipment. ( and of course the inconvenience of moving my plants 2300 km ) Now after getting myself established here I am considering to start again. In fact I already have three D. binatas on my window- sill. So far north, where it is almost 23 hours dark in winter in 23 hours sun in summer, im of course especially interested in the local flora which means first of all Pinguicula villosa. Can anybody provide information on Pinguicula villosa ? Any kind of hints are highly appreciated. Regards Michael ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 17:04:27 GMT Subject: what's new in my garden My D. dilatato-petiolaris X falconeri plant lives. One of two I ordered from Lowrie, I thought it was almost dead, but it's now put up a small, but living, leaf. It remains to be seen if my D. falconeri will do the same. My P. moranensis X ehlersia (?) is living high on the hog, catching a rather large bug by the legs. This plant is my most ambitious plant next to the flytrap which sucked down a bee a couple of weeks ago. The bee buzzed furiously, but couldn't escape, and the trap couldn't even full close. I can now state with authority that the traps really do fill with fluid when digesting a bug, as this was visible through the opening where the trap couldn't close fully at the top. Nose-hair moss is taking over several of my pots, including a poor D. petiolaris seedling I have. I'll try to repot this weekend, hoping that the plant survives. r. ################### From: Online Consultant Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 15:17:54 EDT Subject: Sarr's here. Hey guys, Well, the Sarr's arrived from my friend in Texas. And here's what's available: 2 S.psittacina (1 to Rick) 2 S.leucophylla (1 to Charles) 1 D. filiformis var. tracyi A few tentatively ID'd plants: 1 S.rubra x leucophylla? 1 S.rubra? seed of S.rubra? 1 unID'd Sarr. (trumpet pitcher type, but not enough pitcher present to be sure) Some of the plants are a bit stressed, so I'll send'm express mail. I'm asking for return postage (or more plants :)~ I'll send out the orders on Monday or Tuesday next week. The star of the shipment was a psittacina that was sent to me. Big, old plant. Rosette bigger than my hand and pitcher about 1"-2" wide at the top. Very nice. Rick, how big is your giant type psit? Is it mature yet? On the down side, I sprayed my plants with a fungicide last night (full strength) and now most of the live sphagnum is going brown. The label says this can happen in higher concentrations of the stuff. I guess the moss is sensitive to it. I'm going to rinse the moss off and hope for the best. Later, Davin ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 12:18:41 MST XSubject: Re: Sarr's here. >What is the difference between Polypompholyx westonii and the other two >species - multifida and tenalla? Is it an annual too? There are a variety of differences---check Taylor's work. If you can't get to it, I can summarize. I'm pretty sure that all three Utrics (multifida, tenella, and westonii) behave as annuals. I'm trying to see if I can get leaf cuttings of U. multifida to take but am not being too lucky yet. >I'm also interested to have some tropical species. How to get seeds? > Pekka Ala-Siuru If nobody else will help you on this, I could send you some... Doug: Good to hear about the success on the bog trip. It's always a lot of fun for me to go bogging. I also find bogging helps me grow plants because I can see how the plants grow in the wild. Also, when you see the variety of plants in the wild, you realize that the many "giant" or "dwarf" etc forms people grow are not so unusual. Interesting observation on the absence of seedling activity. Sometimes seedlings are very difficult to find, or colonize only special places. Could be the plant is reproducing only vegetatively. While seeds will usually ripen in the fall, I think you're right to have a struggling conscience. S. purpurea is so easily available, it is pretty questionable to field collect. Still, better seeds than a plant, especially if the seed production is copious. Re: Triphyiophyllum peltatum (sp?): My understanding is this plant lives in a part of Africa (Liberia, Ivory Coast) which is about 90% deforested. It is likely this plant will go extinct before its cultivation is sufficiently understood. I see in the next issue of CPN we should hear more about this. >Note for BAMR: I've got some seed set on U. calycifica 'purple-veins', >and I seem to remember that you were interested in seeing if it would >breed true... Was it this plant, or some other Utric? Thanks, but I've finally gotten my seeds from this plant to germinate, and they bred true, which indicates the genetics on it are pretty pure. Now I'm trying to nurse along a seedling of U. calycifida `spotted-flower' to see if the same holds for it. >Can anybody provide information on Pinguicula villosa ? Randy Lamb recently published a fine piece of work on this species in Canada, including weather data, cultural hints, and photos. It appeared in the Carnivorous Plant Newsletter, about a year ago. Regarding Drosophyllum temperature extremes. I grow this plant (somewhat unsuccessfully) in Arizona, in 5-gallon buckets filled with 50/50 sand/peat. My cohort Paul McMillan and I have found the plants can take a light frost (especially seedlings) but this should be avoided. The plants begin to show adverse affects to high temperature around 33 C (90 F) and start to die when the temperature hits 38 C (100 F). Wow! I'm really impressed this list is growing so quickly. There are a lot of CPers on it, and I'm glad to see such a diversity of people. It's come a long way since the dark ages when Rob Maharajh, Michael Chamberland and I used to exchange email messages. As other things in my life (work, CPN articles, the increasing plant collection, snail-mail correspondence, and my wife coming back from Physical Therapy school upstate in a few months (yay!)) demand more time, I'm going to be contributing less and less to this group. I still read all the messages, but don't have time to respond to all the ones I'd like. Still, I see that most of the time they get answered by others. Of course, whenever anyone mentions Utrics my ears perk up! And if I strongly disagree with some point or if someone directly asks me a question to rattle my cage, I'll rouse from my terminal-torpor. Keep on Growing! Barry ################### From: dngess01@vlsi.ct.louisville.edu (Don) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 23:29:29 -0400 Subject: Re: CP stuff Robert, I got the N. rafflesiana in the mail Friday. Thanks. Where to get CP seeds: The CPN sells CP seeds for $1 a pack. A lot of plants like D. intermedia, D. capensis, D. aliciae, D. burmanni all produce copious seeds. Just ask and we can send you any extra seeds that we have. I know I have lots of D. intermedia seeds and my D. capensis seeds are just now ripening. If you can grow D. binata successfully on a windowsill, you should be able to grow a few more tropical types like D. capensis next to it. P. villosa: There was an article on this species in CPN last year. It only produces two or three leaves per year and its growth cycle only lasts about four months out of the year. Mimosa: Mimosa trees are common in this part of the country. These reach 20+ feet tall. The leaves fold up at night and unfold in the daytime. I've never seen the actual "sensitive plant" Mimosa in the wild. I've only seen them being sold in greenhouses. Rob M. asks how I grow N. 'superba': I use 8-inch azalea pots that are 5 inches deep. I cover the drain holes with a baggie (the cheap kind allows water to leak through its seams while keeping the potting material in the pot). For the bottom inch or two, I use perlite and peat moss (about 2:1), then fill it the rest of the way with 1:1 ratio of perlite and peat moss. They shouldn't be repotted too often. An old CPN says to use 12" pots - I notice Nep roots aren't really that extensive and an 8" pot is plenty big enough for a vine 8-feet or more long. If Neps are repotted, I notice all the old pitchers quickly turn brown and die and all developing pitchers never develop further. This happens even when I tried pouring out the old liquid, saving it, and pouring it back in the pitchers after repotting. ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 13:49:31 +0000 Subject: "Sensitive" plants... I forgot to mention that some (but not all) Greenhood orchids have sensitive flowers. I've got at least two species, Pterostylis concinna and longiflora, which have "tongues" which flick back or up into the hood of the flower (respectively). Another species, P. curta, doesn't have a sensitive tongue. These flowers work differently to Stylidium (Triggerplant) flowers in that the sensitive (moving) part doesn't carry the stamens or stigmas, but is used to restrict the path of the insect when it tries to exit the hood (which is rather like a stubby, green Sarracenia x excellens pitcher) so that it must pass over the stamens and/or stigma. There are also other species of native Australian tuberous orchids which have sensitive flowers of various types. BFN ################### From: Erkki.Aalto@Helsinki.FI Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 08:02 +0300 Subject: Introduction Not being the only Finn on the list anymore, I have now courage to introduce myself. I am interested in all sorts of curious plants, especially orchids, and it was on the orchids mailing list I found out about this list. I had a Venus fly trap for several years, but it died one winter. The winter is very problematic in Finland, it is dark and our houses are built to be comfortable for people, not plants. For eight years I have had S. purpurea venosa, actually my present plant is second generation, it is a seedling of my original plant. Now I have also S. purpurea purpurea, it is especially intresting, as it should survive outdoors in Finland. None of the seedlings I planted outdoors last year seems, however, to have survived, my only specimen has overwintered indoors. I would guess this to be an indication of great mortality of small seedlings, last winter was not cold, it was exceptionally warm. In the future I would like to enlarge my collection, eg. a Nepenthes should mix well with orchids. Erkki Aalto Helsinki, Finland ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 12:12:56 PDT Subject: Re: Sarr's here. Davin, > The star of the shipment was a psittacina that was sent to me. Big, > old plant. Rosette bigger than my hand and pitcher about 1"-2" wide at > the top. Very nice. Rick, how big is your giant type psit? Is it > mature yet? I'm extremely embarassed to report that I killed the plant. I treated a mild aphid infestation with 1/2 strength Malathion, and it just croaked. Very funny behavior. The effect was delayed by about a month, and then the leaves just dessicated right on the plant. They didn't turn brown, but just dried up; green and papery. The same application also nearly wiped out my Darlingtonia, but I completely changed the potting soil and I think that it will recover. Live and learn... :-(. The psitt. giant had made a rosette of about 10" in diameter, and bloomed before it died. I'm thinking of ordering another one from Lee's Orchids. > 2 S.psittacina (1 to Rick) >... > I'll send out the orders on Monday or Tuesday next week. I'm excitedly waiting by the mailbox :-). > Some of the plants are a bit stressed, so I'll send'm express mail. > I'm asking for return postage (or more plants :)~ Here's a quick list of what plants I've got available or will have available soon (some in limited quantities, some in huge qty's :-)): B. liniflora seeds D. aliciae seedlings D. burkeana seedlings D. burmannii seedlings D. capensis 'thin leaf' plants D. capensis 'thin leaf' seeds D. capensis 'wide leaf' seeds D. capensis 'alba' seeds D. capillaris seeds D. intermedia seedlings D. montana seedlings D. muscipula plants P. esseriana P. lusitanica seedlings U. graminifolia U. livida U. pubescens U. sandersonii U. subulata If nothing sounds interesting, I'll send cash or we can work something out on the Lowrie order. (BTW: I've had no responses to my last call on the order - so it is going out ASAP...) > On the down side, I sprayed my plants with a fungicide last night (full > strength) and now most of the live sphagnum is going brown. The label says > this can happen in higher concentrations of the stuff. I guess the moss is > sensitive to it. I'm going to rinse the moss off and hope for the best. Arrggh! That's how I felt after the Malathion fiasco... What fungicide are you using? I've had excellent results with Benomyl 50% wettable powder that I got from Peter Paul's. I have never noticed it to have a detrimental effect on any of my CP, and I use it fairly liberally. -- Rick ################### From: Surly but not Mutinous Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 16:00 EST Subject: "Carnivorous" Bromeliads Can anyone tell me where in the U.S.A. I could get some of the "carnivorous" bromeliads that have been mentioned lately? I'm so new to the CP world that I haven't had enough time to become snobbish towards bromeliads and they sound interesting to me! :-) Of course, I don't know anything about them other than what I've read from this group, so perhaps ignorance truly is bliss... Larry tabacco@stsci.edu ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 20:12:03 GMT Subject: Re: CP stuff In my new office at work I have a window which gets late afternoon sun. I have about a dozen species growing in a Crystal Lite Indoor greenhouse, under 2 15watt grow lights and 2 2' 20watt grow lights (Don). I keep most of my cool growing, and/or sick, species here, and they seem to be loving it. P. moranensis X ehlersia (sp?) has about a 3.5" wide rosette, and the leaves are getting a very nice pink colour. My P. agnata isn't growing as vigorously as I'd hoped, but is getting a nice colour scheme. D. prolifera and adelae are coming back from an aphid attack and bugspray. I just acquired a small D. schizandra, which I may move down here, if I can make the space. I'd like to get one of those octagonal fish tanks and put a single Nepenthes in it, for work, but the tanks cost a fortune. Strangey, my P. ehlersia seedlings haven't been doing much, and the P. cyclosecta which I got from Don quite a while ago hasn't gotten much large than 1/2", although a second small plantlet has shown up, and overall the plants seem happy. Robert ################### From: Earl Nishiguchi (808) 245-8274 Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 13:53 HST Subject: Re: Sarr's here. > > The psitt. giant had made a rosette of about 10" in diameter, and bloomed > before it died. I'm thinking of ordering another one from Lee's Orchids. > Boy, I haven't seen any CP with that size flower... How big is this psitt.giant?? Earl ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 17:01:35 PDT Subject: Re: Sarr's here. > > The psitt. giant had made a rosette of about 10" in diameter, and bloomed > > before it died. I'm thinking of ordering another one from Lee's Orchids. > > > Boy, I haven't seen any CP with that size flower... How big is this > psitt.giant?? Earl, By "rosette" I mean the leaves, not the flower size. I agree that a 10" flower would be quite a sight. The actual flower size was a pretty typical 2" diameter (& salmon colored). -- Rick ################### From: dstewart@tiberius.tc.cornell.edu Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 16:52:55 PDT Subject: Re: "Carnivorous" Bromeliads Larry, I asked Carl about his culture and he said just to grow it like any other bromeliad. Nothing special. He has it in with his Nepenthes and it's doing well. Just got back from a bog this afternoon. This is one that a buddy showed me a couple of years ago. Last time I was there we found a large, robust, bushy specimen of loco weed. With a fence around it. Can you say nervous, boys and girls? Didn't see it this time though. Time to go, Davin ################### From: walker@hpl-cutt.hpl.hp.com Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 18:14:41 PDT Subject: Plant sources... Some time ago, I decided to send off for every CP catalog on Robert's list. Here's what I've found out so far: Lee's has a new address: Lee's Botanical Gardens P.O. Box 669 LaBelle, FL 33935-0669 USA 813-675-8728 (?) Renate Parsley has sold his business to Silverhill Seed: Silverhill Seeds (Successors to Renate Parsley) 18 Silverhill Crescent Kenilworth 7700 Republic of South Africa Milingimbi Nursery has "Left the Address" according to the Australian Post. Mail to Alain Christophe was returned with no forwarding address given. ------------------ Here's who I've gotten catalogs from so far: #AL Allen Lowrie #DR Doug Rowland 1992 Catalog #GH Glasshouse works, 1992 #GS Gordon Snelling 1992 list #HP Hungry Plants, Spring 1992 #MB Marie Baumgartl of Marie's orchids 1992/93 list #NP Nature et Paysages, Jan. 03, 1992 Listing #OB Orgel Bramblett of Orgel's Orchids 8/92 Price list #PP Peter Paul 8/92 #SS Silverhill Seeds (S. Africa) 1992, prices in U.S. $'s I've got a merged listing of all the plants/prices from these sources typed in. As soon as I get the catalog from Lee's, I'll make the whole thing available through the archive server. So far the list includes 300 taxa with a total of 1300 entries. If you know of any other commercial CP sources other than those listed in Robert's list, I'd like to here about them so they could be added to this compilation. The list is certainly fun to read through, for instance, look at the variety of D. muscipula forms available: Dionaea muscipula [AL,$3/: (mixed, deep-red and green-yellow colours) Columbus Pender.] [PP,$3.25/seed,$5.75/plant] [DR,15/45p 100/2.25lbs] [HP,$2/plant,$5/culture] [GS,$3/plant] [OB,$2.50/plant] [NP,40FF/plant] [NP,45FF/plant: muscipula] [NP,45FF/plant: erecta] [NP,65FF/plant: filiformis] [NP,65FF/plant: viridus] [NP,65FF/plant: atropurpurea] [NP,55FF/plant: erecta] Another surprising thing is the number of species that are offered by only one source. For conservation reasons, it would be nice for serious collectors to buy some of these plants and try to propagate them to the community at large. The more people that grow a species, the better chance it has for long-term survival. -- Rick ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 12:19:52 +0000 Subject: Loco weed? >Just got back from a bog this afternoon. This is one that a buddy showed me a >couple of years ago. Last time I was there we found a large, robust, bushy >specimen of loco weed. With a fence around it. Can you say nervous, boys and >girls? Didn't see it this time though. Um, what's Loco weed, and was the fence to keep people out, or the plant in? (shades of "Day of the Triffids" ....) +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [The Banshee] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au | Department of Applied Physics | | MOKING IS A HEALTH HAZARD. | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ################### From: dstewart@tiberius.tc.cornell.edu Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 09:53:45 1992 PST Subject: Re: Loco weed? Loco weed alias happy weed, wacky weed, grass, hemp, mary jane, etc... Cannabis setiva (sp?) Anyway, this plant was the size of a large bush and neatly trimmed. The fence was around the base of the plant and was more to let the grower know where the plant was than any protection. We were nervously imagining the grower (who would just happen to carry a loaded shotgun with him) showing up and giving us hell. When I went there a few days ago, I wasn't in the area of the plants, but I did see other discarded fences and stuff around. On another topic: Rick, the fungicide I used on my plants was full strength Captan and it bleached all of the sphagnum I used it on. Now the heads are starting to show some green, though. Davin ################### From: Anders Ardo Date: Sun, 6 Sep 92 18:31:02 +0200 Subject: U. livida? I just got an Utricularia livida, a non-aquatic Utric with small white flowers, quite nice. The flowers are readily seen but the leaves are hidden in the moss in the pot. Could someone tell me alittle about this curious plant. Is it really carnivourous? Has it bladders like the aquatic Utrics? What insects do it catch? and so on ... I'd be glad for some hints on growing it aswell. I have recently converted one of my aquariums to an indoor small greenhouse for CPs. It is 100 x 60 cm wide and 30 cm high. The plants seem to like it, except for my Sarr which is to large. A second project (in fact started today) is to construct a 1 x 2 m outdoor bog to be connected to my pond. I was planning make a hole about 50 cm deep line it with a sturdy plastic liner and fill it with a mix of peat and sand. Finally I plan to get some live moss locally and some of our native CPs like D. rotundifolia, D. intermedia and D. longifolia together with other native bog-plants. Does it sound feasible? Comments anyone? Anders Anders Ardo Tel: int+46 46 107522 Dept. of Computer Engineering fax: int+46 46 104714 University of Lund, P.O. Box 118 Internet: anders@dit.lth.se S-221 00 Lund, Sweden or anders%dit.lth.se@uunet.uu.net ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 92 11:09:20 +0000 Subject: Re: U. livida >I just got an Utricularia livida, a non-aquatic Utric with small white >flowers, quite nice. The flowers are readily seen but the leaves are hidden >in the moss in the pot. Could someone tell me alittle about this curious plant. >Is it really carnivourous? Has it bladders like the aquatic Utrics? What >insects do it catch? and so on ... >I'd be glad for some hints on growing it aswell. Yes, this really is a CP. It catches tiny creatures in the water-logged soil using (slightly modified) bladder traps like the aquatic species. When your plant grows larger, try moving the soil away from the inside edge of the pot to see the traps (or wait a little longer for the stolons to emerge from the drainage holes...). This plant is one of the easier Utrics to grow (ie. it can be a real weed ;-) ) and I keep mine in a water tray throughout the year. Avoid cold temperatures (say keep above 0-5 degrees Celcius ??) as I think it prefers a warm climate (although I've got some growing in an outside mini peat bog, and they seem OK - temps don't normally drop below freezing and definitely no snow). >A second project (in fact started today) is to construct a 1 x 2 m outdoor >bog to be connected to my pond. I was planning make a hole about 50 cm deep >line it with a sturdy plastic liner and fill it with a mix of peat and sand. >Finally I plan to get some live moss locally and some of our native CPs >like D. rotundifolia, D. intermedia and D. longifolia together with other >native bog-plants. >Does it sound feasible? Comments anyone? Be warned - a 50 cm deep bog will take a large amount of peat to fill - ours was about a 60 cm cube (perhaps slightly bigger) and took about twice as much peat to fill than we expected. However, the plants will normally grow better once they become established, but can also look a little ratty because of pests, etc (more like true wild plants). Your idea of locally occuring CPs and non-CPs is a good one - they should cope with the weather conditions and pests much better, and the non-CPs make it more natural and interesting. If possible, check to see how big the non-CPs grow in the wild to ensure they don't grow too big or spread too vigorously. Good Luck! +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [The Banshee] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au | Department of Applied Physics | | MOKING IS A HEALTH HAZARD. | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Sun, 06 Sep 92 22:41:45 PDT Subject: merged list of commercial cp catalogs Ok, I've got the merged list of commmercial cp catalogs available on the archive server. It includes complete CP price lists from each of the following sources: #AL Allen Lowrie #DR Doug Rowland 1992 Catalog #GH Glasshouse works, 1992 #GS Gordon Snelling 1992 list #HP Hungry Plants, Spring 1992 #LB Lee's Botanical gardens, 1992 #MB Marie Baumgartl of Marie's orchids 1992/93 list #NP Nature et Paysages, Jan. 03, 1992 Listing #OB Orgel Bramblett of Orgel's Orchids 8/92 Price list #PP Peter Paul 8/92 #SS Silverhill Seeds (S. Africa) 1992, prices in U.S. $'s #TS Thysanotus Seed Mailorder, 1992 You can get your copy by sending the message 'get cp cp.sellerlist' to the address 'listserv@jr.hpl.hp.com'. For info on what archive files are available, use 'index cp'. A list of the addresses of these suppliers can be had with the request: 'get cp cp.suppliers' I thinking about making orders to MB, HP and LB for N. bicalcarata, D. regia, and S. psittacina 'giant'. Have fun! Rick ################### From: ATLAS@JHUVMS.HCF.JHU.EDU Date: 07 Sep 1992 17:17:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: Something's eating my plants... As the title suggests, something has been feasting on my plants, mainly on the Sarr. Flava hoods. Every few days, it seems, another pitcher's hood is half gone, chewed away by some unknown critter. I have inspected the area for possible chewing insects, but no luck so far. Should I just mist all the plants with a mild diazanon solution? Any ideas on who the culprit might be? Since it's XDst I just leave the plants alone... BTW, anyone know of a source for Mimosa Pudica ("Sensitive plant") seed?? doug ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 17:37:45 +0000 Subject: Re: Somethings eating my plants >As the title suggests, something has been feasting on my plants, mainly on the >Sarr. Flava hoods. Every few days, it seems, another pitcher's hood is half >gone, chewed away by some unknown critter. I have inspected the area for >possible chewing insects, but no luck so far. Should I just mist all the >plants with a mild diazanon solution? Any ideas on who the culprit might be? >Since it's XDst I just leave the plants alone... If your plants aren't sitting in continuous water, try looking under the pots and in the drainage holes for slugs/snails (although you should be able to spot the slime trails if these pests are present). Next, check *inside* the pitchers for sneaky caterpillars, etc. Also, if you have sphagnum growing over the soil surface, check amongst the strands - especially around the growing point & rhizome - for critters. If you still find nothing, try cloaking the leaves in a plastic bag with a wire-twist or similar at the base of the plant - if the plant still gets attacked, then the critter must be inside the bag, otherwise you'll have to look around outside. This will help narrow down potential hiding places. Alternatively, just spray everything in site... (the subtle method ;-) ) >BTW, anyone know of a source for Mimosa Pudica ("Sensitive plant") seed?? I think Fred Howell used to sell them - also I'm pretty sure one of the larger name commercial seed sellers (Thompson & Morgan, I think - I don't know if they sell in the US though) used to have them too. The seeds are roughly 1/8 - 1/4" disk/lens-shaped. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [The Banshee] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au | Department of Applied Physics | | MOKING IS A HEALTH HAZARD. | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 11:47:45 MST XSubject: Re: Somethings eating my plants Doug: Regarding your chomped Sarr pitchers, it sounds to me like you have a caterpillar problem (I've never known slugs to chomp a mature Sarr leaf). Look for little black dots (droppings). If you have caterpillars, treat with B.t. since this is very CP friendly. Gordon Snelling uses it---I haven't yet only because I haven't had caterpillar problems. Say, you don't have leaf cutter ants out there, do you? Rick: I got your seller list, but very sadly there is an error with it. You see, I was talking to a CPer this weekend who told me that because of hurricane Andrew, Orgel's Orchids has been flattened. Gone. And worse, poor Clyde (who by all accounts is a very nice old fellow) has lost the roof to his house! So, Orgel's is going to be out of it for *at least* a year, if not longer. While my contact (Andrew Marshall) told me he heard Bruce Bednar hadn't been too badly hit, I suggest calling him before you order. BAMR P.S. Argh! This week my cooling system in the greenhouse crapped out and about 50% of my mature Sarrs experienced a few dry days of desert summer before I discovered this and repaired the cooler. The pitchers on these plants are now shot, but I don't think I lost any plants---the rhizomes didn't dessicate. Oh, I may have lost a dozen or so immature seed-pods containing crosses, but what the hell---they're only hybrids! ################### From: Earl Nishiguchi (808) 245-8274 Date: Tue, 08 Sep 92 08:17 HST Subject: Re: Somethings eating my plants > > >BTW, anyone know of a source for Mimosa Pudica ("Sensitive plant") seed?? > > I think Fred Howell used to sell them - also I'm pretty sure one of the larger > name commercial seed sellers (Thompson & Morgan, I think - I don't know > if they sell in the US though) used to have them too. The seeds are roughly > 1/8 - 1/4" disk/lens-shaped. > Don't know what kind of 'sensitive plant' we have growing like a pest here...but if you want seeds or plants, I'll be glad to send them to you. Yes, I recall the brown lens-shaped seeds are sticky ... they cling to your clothes, etc. Earl ################### From: ATLAS@JHUVMS.HCF.JHU.EDU Date: 08 Sep 1992 18:26:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Something's eating my plants I checked for any clues as to what's eating my S Flava hoods, but I couldn't find any telltale signs...my best guess is that either caterpillars or ants are doing the evil deed. Too bad about Orgel's orchids being wiped out by Andrew. Actually, I have a cousin who has(had) a commercial (wholesale) orchid farm in Homestead, Fla. The business and house were totally wiped out. Supposedly they were just starting to grow Nepenthes. My cousin's son had a bromeliad nursery in Homestead too. Also wiped out by Andrew. Earl, thanks for the offer of sensitive plant seed. I'm checking on some local sources, but if I come up empty, I'll take you up on the offer! Anyone know what Nepenthes seed is available from the seed bank these days?? doug ################### From: ATLAS@JHUVMS.HCF.JHU.EDU Date: 09 Sep 1992 17:52:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: Potato bugs Well, I still haven't figured out what is chomping on my S Flava hoods, but now it seems I have a bigger problem...I noticed that my most mature Sarr Purpurea has been losing pitchers over the past few weeks, and only has a few pitchers left. I just gave it a close-up inspection, and it seems that the rhizome and soil are infested with grey bugs! These guys are about 1cm long. When I was a kid, they were called "potato bugs," with an "e" for you Quayle fans. Anyway, I always thought these bugs were pretty benign, but now I'm not so sure. Ideas, anyone?? doug ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 18:21:49 +0000 Subject: Re: Potato bugs >Well, I still haven't figured out what is chomping on my S Flava hoods, but now >it seems I have a bigger problem...I noticed that my most mature Sarr Purpurea >has been losing pitchers over the past few weeks, and only has a few pitchers >left. I just gave it a close-up inspection, and it seems that the rhizome and >soil are infested with grey bugs! >These guys are about 1cm long. When I was a kid, they were called "potato bugs," with an "e" for you Quayle fans. >Anyway, I always thought these bugs were pretty benign, but now I'm not so sure. I'm not sure what your bugs are, but when I was having trouble with a invisible pest attacking our D. binata (supposedly) Giant form, the only thing I found in the mix was a small weevil (type of beetle if you're wondering). If your potato bugs are this type, it may be wise to zap 'em with pyrethrum or feed them carefully to your CP collection... +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [The Banshee] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au | Department of Applied Physics | | MOKING IS A HEALTH HAZARD. | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 18:25:25 +0000 Subject: Sensitive plant seeds I managed to find sensitive plant seeds (Mimosa pudica) here in the local supermarket (believe it or not!). As I guessed, they're sold by Thompson & Morgan and are $2.40 a packet (about a dozen or two seeds I think). On the pack is a "Type 2" label which means that at least 70% of the seeds should germinate. BTW, the pest Mimosa in northern Oz was mentioned on the radio again, this morning, but I've forgotten what species it was - definitely not pudica. BFN +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [The Banshee] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au | Department of Applied Physics | | MOKING IS A HEALTH HAZARD. | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ################### From: sg@monsoon.com (Sunil Gupta) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 13:37:44 EDT Subject: Cultivation Hello all. I've been lurking on this list for a few weeks and have just started a CP greenhouse. I ordered a selection of plants and a Crystal Lite greenhouse from Peter Pauls, which I received and planted yesterday. My only reference is the book I bought along with the kit: "Carnivorous Plants of the World" by James and Patricia Pietropaolo. It made for good reading but really didn't tell me much about cultivation of the different species apart from preferences to temperature and soil alkalinity. Included in the kit was: 2 Sarracenia purpurea 2 Sarracenia rubra 2 Sarracenia leucophylla 2 Sarracenia pisttacina 3 Drosera capillaris 3 Butterworts (no species designation) 1 Darlingtonia califorinca 15 Venus Fly Trap bulbs 5-10 yrs. old The planting media I used seemed to be a mixture of peat, sand and vermiculite. I set up the greenhouse and planted all of species. I then set up the wick-fed watering system. The soil was still bone-dry after a few hours, so I poured a moderate amount of water directly into the media. This produced the rather alarming effect of floating some of the plants, so I left it at that for the night. This morning I check the soil again, and it was still bone-dry. I added more water but contemplated giving the whole thing a severe soaking. Should I just leave it alone and let the watering system do its job, continue to add moderate amounts of water, or just douse it? The Drosera and Pinguicula didn't have much of a root structure, so I basically made cavities in the media and sat the plants in them. Should I have, instead, buried the plants? I really couldn't wait till spring to start gowing CP, but I am now concerned about plant viability. What are the usual dormant periods for the above species and will they have enough time to establish themselves before the onset of dormancy? Finally, I wish to expand my library of reference material on CP. I've already sent for a subscription to CPN. Can anyone point me to domestic mail order sources for Slack, Lowrie et al? Sunil Gupta Monsoon Software, Inc. sg@monsoon.com ################### From: Bob Beer Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 12:27:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Cultivation On Fri, 11 Sep 1992, Sunil Gupta wrote: > Hello all. I've been lurking on this list for a few weeks and have > just started a CP greenhouse. I ordered a selection of plants and > a Crystal Lite greenhouse from Peter Pauls, which I received and > planted yesterday. My only reference is the book I bought along with > the kit: "Carnivorous Plants of the World" by James and Patricia > Pietropaolo. It made for good reading but really didn't tell me > much about cultivation of the different species apart from > preferences to temperature and soil alkalinity. Included in the > kit was: > > 2 Sarracenia purpurea > 2 Sarracenia rubra > 2 Sarracenia leucophylla > 2 Sarracenia pisttacina > 3 Drosera capillaris > 3 Butterworts (no species designation) > 1 Darlingtonia califorinca > 15 Venus Fly Trap bulbs 5-10 yrs. old > > The planting media I used seemed to be a mixture of peat, sand and > vermiculite. I set up the greenhouse and planted all of species. > I then set up the wick-fed watering system. The soil was still > bone-dry after a few hours, so I poured a moderate amount of water > directly into the media. This produced the rather alarming effect of > floating some of the plants, so I left it at that for the night. > This morning I check the soil again, and it was still bone-dry. > I added more water but contemplated giving the whole thing a severe > soaking. Should I just leave it alone and let the watering system > do its job, continue to add moderate amounts of water, or just > douse it? > > The Drosera and Pinguicula didn't have much of a root structure, > so I basically made cavities in the media and sat the plants in > them. Should I have, instead, buried the plants? > > I really couldn't wait till spring to start gowing CP, but > I am now concerned about plant viability. What are the usual dormant > periods for the above species and will they have enough time to > establish themselves before the onset of dormancy? > > Finally, I wish to expand my library of reference material on CP. > I've already sent for a subscription to CPN. Can anyone point me > to domestic mail order sources for Slack, Lowrie et al? > > Sunil Gupta > Monsoon Software, Inc. > sg@monsoon.com > Arrrrrrgh! The Crystal-Lite Greenhouse setup! I forked out a lot of bucks for one of these a long while ago. I'm afraid it just really isn't adequate for raising anything but maybe the Pinguiculas (and then you don't need so much height). There is no ventilation, and if it gets anywhere near the light required to raise the other plants, they will bake. Also, a proplerly grown S. leucophylla will get too tall for the greenhouse. And this amount of plants is about 7 times too much for such a small area. Any of the Sarracenias need root room to grow properly. That means, for a single plant, at least a 4-5" pot. Same for Venus flytraps. Sundews can be placed closer together, but still, they need good sun to grow well. D. californica needs lots of room since it sends out stolons (runners). It also likes its roots cool. Not easy to do in 2" of soil in bright sun. One of my friends here grows it in Styrofoam coolers and pours water through regularly in the summer. As for the wetting of the medium - You need to wet it before you plant the plants. This setup also perpetuates the belief that these plants need steamy jungle humidity. They don't; even here in Seattle where the summers are dry and not very humid, they do fine. In the Southwest, of course you would have to do something for humidity, but for the midwest or the East Coast, normal summer humidity would be adequate. You are best off potting your plants individually in plastic pots of normal dimensions (root depth is important too), and keeping them outside in full sun (except the Pinguiculas, which will burn in full direct sun). Set the pots in a tray (I use a cat litterbox, but anything will do) in about 1/2 to 1 inch of water during the growing season. Adrian Slack's books are some of the best for culture information. Good luck! Bob ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 19:53:19 GMT Subject: Re: Cultivation >>Hello all. I've been lurking on this list for a few weeks and have >>just started a CP greenhouse. I ordered a selection of plants and >>a Crystal Lite greenhouse from Peter Pauls, which I received and >>planted yesterday. My only reference is the book I bought along with >>the kit: "Carnivorous Plants of the World" by James and Patricia >>Pietropaolo. It made for good reading but really didn't tell me >>much about cultivation of the different species apart from >>preferences to temperature and soil alkalinity. Included in the >>kit was: >> >> 2 Sarracenia purpurea >> 2 Sarracenia rubra >> 2 Sarracenia leucophylla >> 2 Sarracenia pisttacina >> 3 Drosera capillaris >> 3 Butterworts (no species designation) >> 1 Darlingtonia califorinca >> 15 Venus Fly Trap bulbs 5-10 yrs. old >> >>The planting media I used seemed to be a mixture of peat, sand and >>vermiculite. I set up the greenhouse and planted all of species. >>I then set up the wick-fed watering system. The soil was still >>bone-dry after a few hours, so I poured a moderate amount of water >>directly into the media. This produced the rather alarming effect of I'm not sure if I misunderstand what you wrote, but since I went through this with my girlfriend, I'll assume that you just planted the plants in dry soil. This is the wrong thing to do. When planting new plants, you should previously have mixed the soil with pure water (tap water may be OK depending on where you live, otherwise you'll have to use bottled, DISTILLED, or REVERSE-IONIZED (R.O.), water. Pour the soil into a bucket, add water, and knead the soil by hand until it is thoroughly soaked. It usually takes a while for the individual peat fibres to soak up water. You'll know when it's soaked long enough because the peat will turn a dark, chocolate, brown. This may take an hour or so. Some authorities advise letting the soil sit for a week or two, to "build up microflora", etc. It can't hurt, but it's not necessary. I have an identical greenhouse to what you have here at work. I've moved the light from directly on the crossbeam to be on one side of the top (the slanted side) and I have a 2 tube, 24", light fixture laying across the top of the other slanted side, outside the plastic. This is wedged up against a window so I get a few hours of afternoon light, but not enough to cause heat buildup. I have my sick and warm loving plants here. I was never happy with the water wick provided, so I just filled the two water holes with RTV sealant, then put potted CP in the tray, with about 1/2" of water. This way I can move plants around, take them out, etc., w/out disturbing the others. This works much better for me than planting the shallow tray which is provided. Be creative! You might find some Rubbermaid square buckets or other containers which you can fit the upper greenhouse/light setup on. No one says you must use the tray. Also, note that once the tall growing Sarracenias start growing, they will outgrow the greenhouse in a few months, if you're growing them well. I don't know where you are, but here in the SF Bay Area, and many other places, you can grow Sarracenias outdoors, if you mind the threat posed by birds, squirrels, and cats, who can dig up a pot or nibble on the leaves. >>floating some of the plants, so I left it at that for the night. >>This morning I check the soil again, and it was still bone-dry. >>I added more water but contemplated giving the whole thing a severe >>soaking. Should I just leave it alone and let the watering system >>do its job, continue to add moderate amounts of water, or just >>douse it? It's tough to call, but I'd probably go to a local store, buy some SunShine (or other good brand) or pure, Canadian (or German), spahgnum, peat moss, and some perlite. I'd mix a 50/50 mixture by volume (don't use toooooo much perlite), soak it as I describe above, carefully replant the plants in this stuff. I've got a large bog garden in a rubbermaid container in this media, and it's doing great. I'd be worried that the dry soil might wick water from the already shocked plants. Keep in mind that it's late in the season, and your CP may go dormant from shock, and not come out for months. This will be indicated by slow or no growth. If this happens, treat them just like they went dormant for the winter. >> >>The Drosera and Pinguicula didn't have much of a root structure, >>so I basically made cavities in the media and sat the plants in >>them. Should I have, instead, buried the plants? Don't bury the leaves, but you might, CAREFULLY, bury the root balls, by pressing some fresh soil around and over them. The important thing is that new roots don't grow into the air, but into the soil, and that moisture will reach the root ball from the soil you've planted in. >> >>I really couldn't wait till spring to start gowing CP, but >>I am now concerned about plant viability. What are the usual dormant >>periods for the above species and will they have enough time to >>establish themselves before the onset of dormancy? All Sarracenias and Venus flytraps (aka. VFTs or dionea) are US species, and go dormant in the winter. If they are growing outdoors they can often go dormant and you can just leave them outside through the winter, depending on where you live, and they'll come back in spring. If you keep them indoors, they may not go dormant, so you'll have to induce dormancy, and then keep the soil just barely damp, so they don't rot. I'm willing to bet that the butterworts are also US, so hopefully you'll be able to treat the entire terrarium similarly, and all the plants will survive. I'm sure others have more to offer on this subjuect. ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 20:13:14 GMT Subject: Re: Cultivation >>Arrrrrrgh! The Crystal-Lite Greenhouse setup! ` That's how I felt the first time I got one, but with a few changes, they can be very useful for species upto a few inches tall. >> >>I forked out a lot of bucks for one of these a long while ago. I'm afraid >>it just really isn't adequate for raising anything but maybe the >>Pinguiculas (and then you don't need so much height). There is no >>ventilation, and if it gets anywhere near the light required to raise the >>other plants, they will bake. OK, for those of us who have these setups lying around, unused :-), here is the plan: * Dump the water tray which the wick runs down into, or better yet, plant some CP in the water tray for putting on your windowsill. * Use small corks, or RTV rubber sealant, to plug the wick holes in the larger tray. * Use a power drill to drill 2 small holes on the slanted sides of the end pickes of the greenhouse frame, so you can move the light fixture, if you bought one, from the top of the frame to down on one side. If you have money to burn, buy another similar fixture and put it on the other side, to balance the setup. Otherwise go to a local hardware store and buy a 2 tube, 24", flourescent setup. * Plant your flytraps, sundews, and butterworks in 4" pots, using pre-wetted soil * Put your pots in the plugged tray, add pure water so you have about 1/2" of water in the tray. slide the greenhouse over the pots and on top of the tray, as you normally would. Now, if you bought the external 24" flourescent setup, shove the greenhouse up against an exterior window that gets morning sun, or just a couple of hours of mild afternoon sun. now balance the 24" light setup on the outside, slanted edge of the greenhouse, against the window (or figure out a way of securing it to the greenhouse frame). This is the only haphazard part of this, and you want to be sure the setup isn't going to fall over. Now you should have a setup to grow low growing CP in. You can also use this setup in an area which is dark, but in that case you should take mirrored milar on the sides of the greenhouse to cause light from the bulbs to get reflected back into the greenhouse. If you leave the thing in light, watch the temps. Temps can be controlled by cinching up the plastic covering to leave more air circulation. Bugs can be attracted/created by putting a chunk of banana in a cup and leaving it in the greenhouse. This is a good way to get little bugs for the butterworks and sundews. ################### From: ATLAS@JHUVMS.HCF.JHU.EDU Date: 11 Sep 1992 16:36:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Cultivation Sunil, I pretty much agree with what Bob and Rob already stated. And the importance of properly observing your plant's dormancy cannot be understated. Where do you live? Depending on this, you might be able to winter your plants outside. I'm in Baltimore, and this has worked very well for me. Regarding CP books, here are some addresses: Slack's book "Carnivorous Plants" is available from MIT Press, 55 Hayward St, Cambridge MA 02142. I bought the softcover version a few months ago for $12.95 + $2.75 P&H. Check your local library for his other book, "Insectivorous plants and how to grow them." It is excellent, but out of print :( I also recently bought Don Schnell's "Carnivorous Plants of the US and Canada." It is a very useful reference book, but a little short on cultivation info. Available from John F Blair, Publisher, 1406 Plaza Drive, Winston-Salem, NC, 27103. $19.95 hardcover. I just got Bruce Bednar's catalog (Lee's botanical gardens). I specifically mentioned that I'd like a N Ampullaria. He's out of them, but said that the hybrid Ampullaria X Veitchii is *almost identical* to Ampullaria. Can anyone confirm or deny this? Does this hybrid have ground pitchers?? doug ################### From: sg@monsoon.com (Sunil Gupta) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 20:39:37 EDT Subject: Regrets Well, thanks for the information guys. Now I truly regret what I've purchased! :( I have to fly to Atlanta to show my new software tomorrow, so I won't get a chance to replant for about a week and a half. I think I'll leave them in the greenhouse and replant in the spring. As all of you could probably tell, I haven't had much botanical experience, hence my lack of knowledge about preparing the planting media. Doug, I live near Baltimore (actually, nearer to DC), and I'm glad to hear that one can successfully cultivate these plants outdoors in this region. Thanks for the addresses for the books. Sunil Gupta Monsoon Software, Inc. sg@monsoon.com ################### From: drosera@gnu.ai.mit.edu Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 02:01:18 -0400 Subject: Re: CP stuff The Nepenthes species offered by the ICPS seed bank, from the list dated August 1992 are N. lowii and N. x (ventricosa x (inermis x bongso)). Peter Paul's indoor greenhouse: The tray they include is way to shallow for the mature species of CP they sell with it. I would use it perhaps for seed germinating or for a mass planting of tropical drosera. The Sarracenia need full sunlight and, especially for the S. purpurea and S. flava, they must have a winter dormancy lasting at least three months of cooler weather. I would repot the Sarracenia into a peat moss and perlite mix and keep them outside. You can probably find both Sarracenia purpurea subspecies purpurea and S. flava growing in the wild within a few miles of DC. Also found in the DC area would be D. filiformis, D. intermedia, and D. rotundifolia. N. ampullaria: I have an N. ampullaria 'red' that has enough to make a cutting. So that I don't destroy pitchers that are newly forming, I think I'll try air-layering some of my Nepenthes vines soon and have rooted plants to trade next spring. I got a plant N. x (mixta x mirabilis) from Rob M. last year. I have serious doubts about the validity of the name. It definitely looks like it has N. ampullaria in its background. I have enough to make a cutting of this plant too. The pitchers look like huge N. ampullaria pitchers. The peristome curls down into the mouth of the pitcher just like ampullaria and the lid is reflexed at 180 degrees like ampullaria too. Not too colorful though. I thought it might be N. ampullaria x mirabilis but the pitchers are getting too big and fat for mirabilis. The leaves have long hairs and a reddish tint along the margins. N. hookeriana: The "cultivated form" of N. hookeriana I believe is not the real thing. It has no ampullaria traits at all that I can see. It looks very close to N. rafflesiana. I'd say it is some old Nepenthes hybrid - chelsonii or wrigleyana or something - probably some rafflesiana hybrid of some sort, then crossed again with rafflesiana to get our N. hookeriana "cultivated form". Earl, are you still there? I heard about the big hurricane that hit Hawaii tonight. Are you growing any Nepenthes vines outdoors there in Hawaii? Don Burden ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 23:58:48 PDT Subject: lots of misc CP stuff Michael: I've been itching to get an N. bicalcarata, but the only source is Marie's at $50/plant. I guess it would be worth it to split up for trading stock... I've noticed that Orgel's *used* to carry N. gracilis x bicalcarata for much cheaper. Did your N. g.xb. develop the characteristic fangs? Also, how do you like your N. albomarginata. The pictures I've seen look pretty cool. Sunil: > I have to fly to Atlanta to show my new software tomorrow, so I won't > get a chance to replant for about a week and a half. I think I'll > leave them in the greenhouse and replant in the spring. If you possibly can, make sure that you succeed in getting your soil damp before you leave. The wicking system will not be able to work unless the soil is moist. You can often dampen dry sphaghnum by misting it with a spray bottle. For some reason a spray will soak in, but water poured on will just run off. Barry: My U. nephrophylla is producing "pups" on several of the leaves. These are leaves 2" in the air. Is vegetative apoximis normal behavior for this plant? I've also noticed that the leaves are much healthier and greener if I grow this plant under the bench in the shade, rather than in bright light. Don: Some time ago you mentioned Bob Ziemer's CP list. Does he still maintain the list? If he has stopped, do you know why? I'm toying with the idea of trying to start it up again with an ad in ICPN, etc. Do you have any comments on how useful it was? Some miscellaneous stuff: My U. graminifolia is growing out of the bottom of the pot and catching water fleas in the tray. I've noticed that when I pick up the pot it sounds like rice krispies, "snap crackle & pop," as the little traps are activated by the disturbance. The S. purpurea venosa in my bog garden is putting up a flower spike. Is this the normal time of year for such behavior? My other potted purp. shows no sign of flowering. -- Rick ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 13:30:32 MST XSubject: Re: lots of misc CP stuff >Barry: My U. nephrophylla is producing "pups" on several of the leaves. >These are leaves 2" in the air. Is vegetative apoximis normal behavior >for this plant? I've also noticed that the leaves are much healthier >and greener if I grow this plant under the bench in the shade, rather than >in bright light. Sounds like they are growing well. I've seen leaf budding on plenty of Utrics, especially if they are very wet or the conditions are humid. In fact, Lloyd and Taylor have both written that the species U. simplex (related to delicatula and lateriflora) always perennate by leaf budding. I am not quite sure what this means, and have not gotten around to asking Taylor for a clarification. Incidentally, as I understand it, "vegetative apomixis" is reserved for when adventitious plantlets occur on an *inflorescence*, like you occasionally see on some Drosera (intermedia, rotundifolia), Dionaea, Agaves, Allium (such as onions and particularly "Society garlic") and of course D. prolifera. But I may be off base on this one. >The S. purpurea venosa in my bog garden is putting up a flower spike. >Is this the normal time of year for such behavior? My other potted purp. >shows no sign of flowering. Mostly they do flower in the spring, but occasionally you'll get a misfire like this. My S. flava are most prone to this---of 10 or so pots of varieties, I usually get about 2---3 ill-timed flowers. Occasionally S. alata, minor, or purp (as you've noticed) do this too. BAMR ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 12:06:07 +0000 Subject: New plant & new book... I've just received my order that I placed with Allen Lowrie. I now have a (somewhat disappointly small) Brocchinia reducta plant and several CP seed packs including a Genlisea and my favourite tuberous Drosera - D. stolonifera ssp. prostrata (which is indeed a true prostrate plant). I only hope that the seeds germinate... I also spotted a new CP book at our "local" CP supermarket (Collector's Corner at Gardenworld). It titled (something like) "A Guide to Carnivorous Plants of the World" by Gordon Cheers. This book is a vast improvement over his first small book, and has many full-page color photos and a great month-by- month growing guide for many CPs detailing the conditions and maintanance required by the plants for each month. It also has a large list of CPs (including at least 4 carnivorous bromeliads). It appears to be only available in hardback at the moment and retails for around AUS$45. I'm not sure if it has been properly released yet, as the copy on the self had a tag saying that you had to order copies... I haven't had a thorough look at it yet, but from the quick scan I made it seems to be quite a good book. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [The Banshee] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au | Department of Applied Physics | | MOKING IS A HEALTH HAZARD. | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ################### From: Erkki.Aalto@Helsinki.FI Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 07:54 +0300 Subject: Re: New plant & new book... Send us some info about the carnivorous bromeliads. They are a very new thing, I remember reading from American Naturalist the original publication which proved that B. reducta is carnivorous. What are the three others? Erkki Aalto Helsinki, Finland ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 18:56:02 +0000 Subject: Carnivorous Bromeliads >Send us some info about the carnivorous bromeliads. They are a very new >thing, I remember reading from American Naturalist the original publication >which proved that B. reducta is carnivorous. What are the three others? I don't have any info about the carnivorous bromeliads, except that they live in nutrient poor conditions like most CPs, and rely on the pitcher type trap to capture their prey which is then dissolved by bacteria like the Cobra Lily and absorbed through special glands. The other 3 bromeliads are another Brocchinia, Catopsis bertoniana (name maybe spelt wrong) and another which is a member of the Martynicae (spel again?) and has a genus name beginning with "I". +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [The Banshee] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au | Department of Applied Physics | | MOKING IS A HEALTH HAZARD. | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 09:55:56 MST XSubject: Re: Carnivorous Bromeliads >Cobra Lily and absorbed through special glands. The other 3 bromeliads >are another Brocchinia, Catopsis bertoniana (name maybe spelt wrong) and >another which is a member of the Martynicae (spel again?) and has a genus >name beginning with "I". Hold on Tex! This last plant you're chewing over is certainly not a bromeliad! It is the "Unicorn" or "Devil's claw" plant. The family is Martyniaceae. The genus is up to some debate, some putting it as Martynia, some Ibiscella. It is related to the genus Proboscidea, which is the "Devil's Claw" plant popular among craft-minded people in the South West U.S. (Cowfolk put the claws---which are actually bifurcated seed pods several inches long---on their hats, the Native Americans use them in basketry and as a food source.) The possibly carnivorous species is Martynia (Ibiscella) lutea, which occurs in Northern Mexico and southern California. It looks much like a potato(e!) or Geranium out of flower. Its claim to fame are its leaves which are covered with sticky glandular hairs. Note that Geraniums also have such hairs. Is it carnivorous? This is up to debate, although it seems that a few radioactively doped flies would answer the problem very quickly. I've seen two of the Arizonan Proboscidea in the field and have grown P. parviflora var. hohokamiana in the greenhouse and have observed many dead gnats stuck to their leaves. But they've never had the steam-rolled look that dead bugs on Pinguiculae have. I think that Proboscidea and Geraniums should be lumped with Roridula as insecto- homicidal, but not carnivorous. But of Martynia lutea? Lastly, a line drawing of the plant is in Juniper, Robins, and Joel, who incorrectly write that M. lutea is indigenous to the SW U.S.---it is actually an exotic from S. America. BAMR ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 10:35:28 +0000 Subject: Re: 4th carnivorous Brom >Cobra Lily and absorbed through special glands. The other 3 bromeliads >are another Brocchinia, Catopsis bertoniana (name maybe spelt wrong) and >another which is a member of the Martynicae (spel again?) and has a genus >name beginning with "I". > >Hold on Tex! This last plant you're chewing over is certainly not a >bromeliad! It is the "Unicorn" or "Devil's claw" plant. The family is >Martyniaceae. The genus is up to some debate, some putting it as >Martynia, some Ibiscella. It is related to the genus Proboscidea, which >is the "Devil's Claw" plant popular among craft-minded people in >the South West U.S. (Cowfolk put the claws---which are actually bifurcated >seed pods several inches long---on their hats, the Native Americans use them >in basketry and as a food source.) The possibly carnivorous species is >Martynia (Ibiscella) lutea, which occurs in Northern Mexico and southern >California. It looks much like a potato(e!) or Geranium out of flower. Its Whoops! I'm no botanist, and only the name was listed in the new book I mentioned. (Martynaceae rang a bell as being a Bromliad genus - I guess I was thinking about something else...) OK, so there's only about 3 carnivorous bromeliads I know of... +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [The Banshee] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au | Department of Applied Physics | | MOKING IS A HEALTH HAZARD. | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 18:04:03 PDT Subject: Uncommon CP > Brocchinia, Catopsis, Martynicae, Ibiscella, etc... Another CP you don't hear much about is Capsella bursa-pastoris, or "shepherd's purse". A very common weed around here, with carnivorous seeds. The seeds exude a sticky mucus, and rely on catching insects to feed the developing embryo. -- Rick ################### From: Davin Stewart Date: Thu, 17 Sep 92 16:46:17 EDT Subject: Stuff Hey guys, How's life? I'v been pretty involved with school and haven't had time to talk lately, but one of my classes ended early today. Here's my news: I've been visiting a friend that here in NY who's into carnivorous plants and last weekend he entrusted unto me D.lanata and D.petiolaris-dilato. I have them in a ten gallon aquarium under lights and it gets nice and warm in there. Can anyone give me tips on growing these plants? I know to keep them warm and humid, but that's about it. Also, while I was there, he showed me his latest growing chamber set-up. It's a large case (maybe 4'x2'x2') with sliding plexiglass doors. He's got it in his basement(which keeps it nice and cool) under 4 flourescent lights. The really interesting thing about it is that he cut a hole in one of the walls and connected the output from a cool humidifier to the case. So, now every so often his plants get a wonderful stream of fresh, cool, mist. He's growing Heliamphora and Brocchina (sp?) in there. It looks like they'll love it. On a minor point, my D.ericksonae is producing gemmae so you're welcome to it. I think I can just send these guys in an envelope so shipping costs are negligable. Any orders welcome. That's all for now, Davin ################### From: ithaca!amber!phoebe@uunet.UU.NET (P. Couch) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 92 14:52:19 PDT Subject: Re: Stuff >On a minor point, my D.ericksonae is producing gemmae so you're welcome to it. I think I can just send these guys in an envelope so shipping costs are negligable. Any orders welcome. Welcome back Davin, I'd love some D.ericksonae. Please pad the envelopes this time. :) Thanx, P. ################### From: dngess01@vlsi.ct.louisville.edu (Don) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 92 23:10:38 -0400 Subject: CP, CP, CP I got a letter from Gordon a few days ago asking for help getting his computer connected to the world. I sent him a few ideas on how to find a site that would relay his e-mail to internet addresses so he can write to us. Does anyone know what city is close to Glendora, California? All I know is he's somewhere in Southern California. If he can call Los Angeles toll-free he shouldn't have any problems at all. There are a few pay services that provides internet e-mail. America Online costs $7.95 per month - you get two hours access per month and then you pay 10 cents a minute. GEnie costs $5 for BASIC services, then $10 a month extra if you want to send and receive internet e-mail - this is flat-rate with no extra per-minute charges. E-mail has been acting flaky at this site recently. There may have been mail sent that was never received at this end. My other internet addresses are: "al423@cleveland.freenet.edu" and "drosera@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu". I harvested seeds last week that may be a new D. capensis x dielsiana hybrid I made (don't tell Gordon). Germination finally from P. ionantha seeds that Barry sent way back in April! D. linearis has a nearly complete hibernicula. I'll pop it into the fridge in a few weeks. U. livida and U. gramminifolia are still sending up lots and lots of flower stalks. S. leucophylla has just started producing its much larger fall pitchers. The first one may open any day. Someone asked about cultivating D. petiolaris 'complex' plants. I have them close to the flourescent light tubes - about 4 inches. When plants were first placed this close, they didn't look too well after a few weeks - probably the plants lost too much water from their leaves due to the heat of the tubes. They look much happier when grown in baggies. Be sure you keep the tops of the baggies well away from the tubes - especially near the end of the tubes where it can get quite hot. ################### From: Davin Stewart Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 15:17:54 EDT Subject: D.spathulata 'lovellae'? Rob, Remeber those D.spath's that I showed you at Carl's house? Well, some of them are putting up white flowers. Could these be lovellae? What exactly do the flowers look like. BTW, got germination on D.spath NSW, and montana 'white flower'. Great stuff! Davin ################### From: "Scott Brown" Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 16:22:54 EDT Subject: Air layering nepenthes A couple of months ago, I air layred one of my overgrown nepenthes so I could give a cutting to a friend. Does anybody know how long it should take for the roots to develop and when it should be cut off and potted up? Scott ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 19:15:09 MST XSubject: Re: Air layering nepenthes Well guys, Barry here. Several days ago I sent Earl Nishiguchi, our esteemed Hawaiian collegue a note hoping he was weathering Hurricane Iniki all right. He lives on one of the northern-most islands, next to Kaui. Well, here's his reply (just received). B ************************************ THANKS FOR YOUR CONCERN. WE LOST TWO THIRDS OF OUR ROOF AND AND GOT FLOODED. OF COURSE, MY GREEN HOUSE AND CP 'DISAPPEARED' AND EVERYTHING IS A MESS. HONOLULU WAS HARDLY DAMAGED. OUR ISLAND LOOKS LIKE A BOMB WAS DROPPED... OUR COLLEGE SUSTAINED HEAVY DAMAGE ALSO. WE WERE WITHOUT WATER FOR 5 DAYS. NO PHONE FOR 3 DAYS AND WONT BE GETTING ELECTRICITY FOR 30-60 DAYS. I'M COMMUNICATING VIA MY TOSHIBA LAPTOP. I HAD SOMEONE CHARGE THE BATTERIES VIA THEIR GENERATOR... HOPE TO JOIN THE GANG SHORTLY.... THANKS EARL ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 22:40:31 PDT Subject: Re: >> >>Well guys, Barry here. Several days ago I sent Earl Nishiguchi, our >>esteemed Hawaiian collegue a note hoping he was weathering Hurricane >>Iniki all right. He lives on one of the northern-most islands, next >>to Kaui. Well, here's his reply (just received). >> >>B >>************************************ >> >>THANKS FOR YOUR CONCERN. WE LOST TWO THIRDS OF OUR ROOF AND >>AND GOT FLOODED. OF COURSE, MY GREEN HOUSE AND CP 'DISAPPEARED' >>AND EVERYTHING IS A MESS. Well, it sounds to me like Earl will be in need of a CP shipment to replace his collection. While this is hardly going to make up for losing most of his roof, it couldn't hurt. However, I think we should wait until he's ready to accept any deliveries, and the mail is working well again. Now that I think about it, Orgel could perhaps benefit from a delivery too. I wonder if an ad in CPN might not be in order? Robert ################### From: DEL_COL@AB.WVNET.EDU Date: 22 Sep 1992 12:57:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Nepenthes seed wanted I'd like to hear from anyone who has seed of Nepenthes species or hybrids to sell. Nepenthes are really the only CP I'm interested in at present, though I used to have other pitcher plants and drosera. J. Del Col ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 10:46:08 MST Subject: Re: The replacement shipment to orgel is already in the works, so says Gordon Snelling. ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 12:14:41 PDT Subject: Re: Nepenthes seed wanted In message <01GP33M145S296VU5B@WVNVMS.WVNET.EDU> you write: > I'd like to hear from anyone who has seed of Nepenthes species or hybrids > to sell. Nepenthes are really the only CP I'm interested in at present, > though I used to have other pitcher plants and drosera. Hi Jeff, Try getting the following files from the archives: cp.suppliers 1 /usr/server/archives/cp Robert Allen's list of CP suppliers cp.growlist 1 /usr/server/archives/cp Merged CP growlist for our group cp.sellerlist 1 /usr/server/archives/cp Merged 1992 Commercial Price Lists To get a file (for example "cp.suppliers"), send the message: get cp cp.suppliers To the address: listserv@opus.hpl.hp.com The cp.sellerlist has prices/availability for nearly all the big commercial sources. The cp.supplier list has the addresses for each of the referenced suppliers. Finally, the cp.growlist is a compilation of plants that are grown by subscribers to this list. I would encourage all growers to post a copy of their current grow lists for inclusion in the archive. -- Rick ################### From: Davin Stewart Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 22:29:50 EDT Subject: Re: Stuff Hey P, OK, the plants went out this afternoon. I included a bit more than the D. ericksonae gemmae (I actually included plants :-) and I think I added some U. calycifida 'Spotted Flower' (I couldn't remember if I had given you any or not). I think I added a D. spathulata, U. sandersonii, and U. bisquamata. Maybe something else, I can't remember. My memory's going. BTW, what do you do for a living? Since I'm a graduating senior in CS, I'm becoming MUCH more interested in the job realm and would like to hear from all sources. That's about it, Davin ################### From: ritter@floyd.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Janice Ritter x5444) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 92 10:52:06 -0400 Subject: intro Hi! My name is Janice Ritter, and I just joined the CP discussion group today. I became interested in carniverous plants as a child, but have never been able to keep the couple of venus flytraps I got over the years alive. Since I do pretty well with houseplants and bonsai trees, this stumbling block has been frustrating. I'm hoping that here I'll get some advice and tips on keeping these little guys alive! Janice Ritter ritter@ileaf.com ################### From: James Powell Date: Wed, 23 Sep 92 14:32:08 -0400 Subject: intro Hi. I'm James Powell. I joined the CP discussion group yesterday. I've been growing carnivorous plants since I was a kid. I started out with a couple of venus flytrap bulbs from a "junk" magazine, and went on from there. Before I went to college I had a makeshift greenhouse under a tree in the corner of my parents yard with nepenthes, byblis liniflora and a couple of sundews and utricularia. And I managed to grow Aldrovanda for a summer in an aquarium sitting in the well of a basement window. Now living in apartments I do the best I can with terrariums and artificial light most of the year. I lost a nice nepenthes bicalcarata during an unexpected cold snap last spring, when I left it out on the patio overnight, and was ready to give up on carnivorous plants until I visited the Okefenokee swamp this summer and saw Sarracenias, droseras, utricularias, and pinguicula all growing together in the wild. Seeing them in their native setting renewed my interest. I'd love to try my hand at growing some nepenthes from seed sometime. Has anyone ever visited the Fullerton Arboretum in Pennsylvania? I hear they have a large collection of nepenthes. Is it worth the trip (from Virginia)? PS : What is Catopsis berteroniana? James Powell Library Automation, University Libraries, VPI & SU jpowell@borg.lib.vt.edu ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 92 18:02:19 GMT Subject: Re: intro >>Hi! My name is Janice Ritter, and I just joined the CP discussion >>group today. I became interested in carniverous plants as a child, >>but have never been able to keep the couple of venus flytraps >>I got over the years alive. Since I do pretty well with houseplants >>and bonsai trees, this stumbling block has been frustrating. >>I'm hoping that here I'll get some advice and tips on keeping these >>little guys alive! Here's a mesg I posted to rec.gardens some time ago. Take heart, VFTs can be quite easy to keep if you respect their winter dormancy requirements, don't fertilize them, give them pure water, and plenty of Sun. I grow mine outside in the SF bay area and they pretty much take care of themselves, barring the occasional aphid infestation. Robert Here are culture hints in a nutshell: Growth medium: use a 50/50 mixture of canadian peat moss and silica sand. Other mixtures work also, but this is the simplest. Make sure and use good quality peat moss WITHOUT any additives such as fertilizers. Don't use Hyponex brand. Rinse the sand to ensure that no salts are present. If you have access to live, longrain spahgnum moss, you can use it as a top dressing to the peat sand, to keep down splash if you water from above, and to judge the quality of your water, and humidity. If the moss won't stay alive then the plants won't either probably. These plants don't get deep roots, so a 5" diameter pot will be fine. Use PLASTIC POTS ONLY. Don't use clay, as the soil will dry out quickly, AND, the clay will hold toxic salts from your water. Speaking of this, you might want to flush your pot once or twice during the growing season. (Note, I've since changed to 50/50 perlite and peat as the medium, since it's lighter and the peat doesn't seem to wash away over time). Sun: these plants can take full sun, but don't overheat them. Morning sun is best. You can tell if the plants are getting enough sun if the insides of the traps get a bright red, going to dark red as you get more sun. Water: use pure water. If your local water is not free of of salts, etc., or if you use a chemical water softener, use distilled water. Reverse-osmosis processed water is also good. Almost all carnivorous plants are VERY sensitive to fertilizer, salts, or any soil additive. They are used to growing in bogs, in an acid PH soil. During the growing season I leave the pot standing in a tray of water. These plants have been known to grow under water for short periods of time, but generally prefer a damp but not soggy growth medium. I usually keep the soil the consistancy of a damp, but not soggy, sponge. During the growing season you will go through a lot of water. You can grow them in an undrained container if you watch the undergrown water level carefully (via a small pot or plastic cup with holes in the bottom burried in the growing pot: water seeks its' own level, and you can monitor the water level this way if you grow in a big enough pot. Humidity: VFTs are bog plants, and so expect a decent level of humidity. However, I grow my VFTs and other carnivorous plants outdoors in the San Francisco Bay Area. As long as the soil is wet, and there is some amount of evaporative humidity from water trays, a large, pot, etc., you shouldn't have any problems. Direct, afternoon sun tends to dry the plants out a bit if you aren't careful. Growing season: these plants go dormant in the winter, at which time they either cut back on growing, or stop altogether. Cut back on watering keeping the soil just damp. The plants will survive frost if the root and rhizome system doesn't freeze. Since they are native to the Southern U.S., you shouldn't have problems growing them , probably even outdoors in your garden, if you follow the hints above. They will send up flower stalks in spring as I recall. If you want the plant to produce lots of healthy traps, don't let it flower. If you want seed to grow more plants, it's best to have two plants flowering at the same time. When the flowers open, just rub the flowers on different stalks together to transfer the pollen, and watch for a maturing seed pod. Selfing from the same plant is problematic due to the different maturation times of the sexual parts of the flower. Food: these plants will attract and capture their own food if kept outside. Bugs are used as a source of nitrogen for the VFT, which grows in nutrient poor soil. The plants do photosynthesize, so they don't need to catch bugs to survive. DO NOT fertilize carnivorous plants. Done improperly (i.e. as you would normally use fertilizer) it will kill the plant quickly. You can use 1/4 strength fish emulsion sprayed on the leaves once in a great while, but it's not necessary and is more trouble than it's worth. The plant will use the colour of the traps (the red, remember?), plus nectar the traps produce, to attract prey. It will catch flying bugs, but crawling bugs are more likely food. I think they catch prey better in the sun than in shade, perhaps due to the colour of the traps. Propagation: After a season or two of growth, the plants will spawn offshoots which can be carefully broken off and planted seperately. However, I prefer to just let them fill a pot. You can also grow them from seed, germinated in high humidity, warmth, and wet, in straight peatmoss, or you can grow them from leaf cuttings, where you peel a leaf off the onion-skin like rhizome. Get the hole leaf including part of the white, underground part. Again, I'd just let the plant produce offshoots and fill the pot. Pests: indeed, VFTs and other plants can get aphid and scale infestations. In extreme cases you can cut off the affected leaves and they should grow back during the growing season. If they don't, the tender young leaves will grow deformed from the aphids sucking on them. Using pesticides on carnivorous plants is dangerous, but can be done. I use a 1/2 strength diazanon foliar spray to kill aphids. The aphids usually live deep in the growing meristem area, and may be hard to see. Watch for the deformed leaves. Using ladybugs to kill the aphids on VFTs is tedious :-). If you err, err on the side of a weaker poison solution and do another spraying a couple of days after the first. Other pests are squirrels, cats, and bluejays, who may dig up the plants looking for food, or to bury nuts in, etc. I keep a chicken wire screen over my plants. You can buy lots of other carnivorous plants via mail order suppliers. You might want to do what I've done, and get a long plastic undrained planter, and put in some VFTs, a couple of smaller pitcher plants (Sarracenias), a sundew or two, and/or some butterworts of bladderworts. If you use all US plants then they should have similar growth requirements. ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 92 19:44:08 GMT Subject: Re: intro >>Hi. I'm James Powell. I joined the CP discussion group yesterday. >>I've been growing carnivorous plants since I was a kid. I started >>out with a couple of venus flytrap bulbs from a "junk" magazine, and >>went on from there. Before I went to college I had a makeshift >>greenhouse under a tree in the corner of my parents yard with >>nepenthes, byblis liniflora and a couple of sundews and utricularia. >>And I managed to grow Aldrovanda for a summer in an aquarium sitting >>in the well of a basement window. Now living in apartments I do the >>best I can with terrariums and artificial light most of the year. I >>lost a nice nepenthes bicalcarata during an unexpected cold snap last >>spring, when I left it out on the patio overnight, and was ready to >>give up on carnivorous plants until I visited the Okefenokee swamp >>this summer and saw Sarracenias, droseras, utricularias, and >>pinguicula all growing together in the wild. Seeing them in their >>native setting renewed my interest. I'd love to try my hand at >>growing some nepenthes from seed sometime. Has anyone ever visited >>the Fullerton Arboretum in Pennsylvania? I hear they have a large >>collection of nepenthes. Is it worth the trip (from Virginia)? I think you mean Longwood Gardens. Fullerton Arboretum is in CA, where Leo Song maintains a supposed extensive CP collection. I know someone locally who does quite well with terrariums, and a few plants grown outdoors. Prize winning plants actually. He just doesn't grow every species under the sun. >> >>PS : What is Catopsis berteroniana? It's a carnivorous, passive trap, bromeliad. Not particularly exciting looking. Robert ################### From: ritter@floyd.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Janice Ritter x5444) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 92 16:25:15 -0400 Subject: Re: intro Thanks Robert! (I'm going to show my ignorance here now.) So, you should never leave the VFT in the containers you buy them in? I think I always did, keeping the cover on, so the humidity stayed around. (I'm in Boston, BTW) It gets pretty dry inside here in the winter - is it worth putting a light plastic bag around the plant to maintain some humidity, or is this why mine passed to the Big Garden in the Hinterlands? Janice Ritter ritter@ileaf.com ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 92 22:14:09 GMT Subject: Re: intro >>Thanks Robert! (I'm going to show my ignorance here now.) >>So, you should never leave the VFT in the containers you >>buy them in? I think I always did, keeping the cover on, >>so the humidity stayed around. >>(I'm in Boston, BTW) It gets pretty dry inside here in >>the winter - is it worth putting a light plastic bag around >>the plant to maintain some humidity, or is this why mine >>passed to the Big Garden in the Hinterlands? *everyone* who starts growing CP over-estimate the amount of humidity needed, particularly on `common' cp. Plants may take time to adapt, but in recent years more and more people are growing completely outdoors. Plants seem touchier about temps than about humidity. All of my plants except for Nepenthes grow outdoors, because I live an apt. and have little indoor space. I do have a N. ventricosa growing very nicely outdoors. I tried gracilis outdoors but it wasn't warm enough. All the VFTs I killed were left in their pots. The plastic humidity domes are even worse, since you can overheat and kill a plant within an hour or so in direct sunlight. After looking at the VFTs I'm growing, I believe that the bigger the pot the happier the plant. The plant will eventually grow to fill the pot anyhow if it's happy. I think larger pots may help alleviate suffocated roots, and roots which are too hot or too cold. Plants that I've put in larger pots have consistently done better than ones in small pots. Perhaps others can comment on growing in and around Boston? Now, if you are growing *indoors* then you will have to deal with inducing dormancy, and then storing dormant plants. I've read that CP grown outdoors develop a natural anti-freeze, and become a bit more resistant to dormancy rot, if nature slows them down. If at all possible, particularly if you have multiple plants to experiment with, I'd try moving the plants outdoors. Wintering them will perhaps be easier to, although you may want to protect them against frost a bit. Some people I've heard of have planted small bog gardens in tubs, and one guy just buries his plants in live spahgnum moss (i.e. he mulches them) to keep them from getting completely frozen. Come spring he unburies them. I would think that you might be able to use other mulches for burying, but I haven't tried it. ################### From: dngess01@vlsi.ct.louisville.edu (Don) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 92 18:32:34 -0400 Subject: Re: intro >Thanks Robert! (I'm going to show my ignorance here now.) >So, you should never leave the VFT in the containers you >buy them in? I think I always did, keeping the cover on, >so the humidity stayed around. >(I'm in Boston, BTW) It gets pretty dry inside here in >the winter - is it worth putting a light plastic bag around >the plant to maintain some humidity, or is this why mine >passed to the Big Garden in the Hinterlands? > >Janice Ritter >ritter@ileaf.com > The VFT is native to the coastal Carolinas. The containers they're usually sold in are a little too small. They should be repotted into at least a 4 or 5-inch pot. They wouldn't grow as well indoors as they would outdoors. My plants survived (when I used to grow them) quite well in zone 6 here in southern Indiana. During the winter, mulch with dead leaves to around 10 inches at the first hard freeze, then pile up snow on top of the mulch whenever it snows. Places where there is a snow cover most of the winter may be better for the plants as the temperature would never fall below 32 F. Place the pots into the ground up to the rim. If growing outdoors, use a bigger pot (maybe 8-10 inches) as this would hold in moisture better during dry periods and would protect the deeper growing roots from freezing. If you want to keep the plant alive for more than a year, a winter rest period is absolutely essential. VFTs also like a lot of light. Indoors may be too dark. ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 18:45:10 +0000 Subject: Grampians trip I'll be off-line for a few days as I'm going up to The Grampians in mid-west Victoria. We any luck the local CPs will be out - I particulatly hope that again (I'm pretty sure that this form has a spotted upper lip). I also hope to find the Drosera peltata and auriculata plants. I'll report any findings when I get back. Hi to all new CPers! BFN from the Australian CP correspondent... +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [The Banshee] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au | Department of Applied Physics | | MOKING IS A HEALTH HAZARD. | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ################### From: Mark Evans Date: 24 Sep 1992 16:24:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: INTRODUCTION Hello, I just signed on to this list and have been VERY impressed with the quality of the discussions in your archives. I do not own any CPs at the present, but am eagerly looking forward to it. I collect haworthias, stapeliads and crassulas. I also have a small collection of oncidiums (equitant) and various epiphytic cacti. I also have a collection of ferns (hardy and tender) and I enjoy raising ferns from spores. I am very interested in the biology and ecology of CPs and have been for a number of years. Now for my questions. What plants would be best for the neophyte? I do have a grasp on the cultural requirements for many species, but would like to begin with something inexpensive and fairly easy. Also, are there many species hardy enough to withstand the rigorous temperature fluctuations of a KENTUCKY winter? Any advice would be appreciated. Have there been any known populations of endemic CPs in Kentucky? In my part of the state, calcareous clay forms the majority of the soil base, but ten miles away sandstone predominates. Rhododendrons, azaleas and blueberries grow in abundance there so I know an acid soil is present. Thanks and I'm glad to find you, Mark Evans LIBEVANS@EKU BITNET Crabbe Library Eastern Kentucky University Richmond, KY 40475 ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 13:36:51 MST Subject: Re: INTRODUCTION Mark: You may be intrigued to know that CP occur in every state in the US. What's a Kentucky winter like? (what are maximum lows and what are the typical T's for a few months?) B. ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 21:05:13 GMT Subject: Re: INTRODUCTION >>I do not own any CPs at the present, but am eagerly looking forward to it. >>I collect haworthias, stapeliads and crassulas. I also have a small >>collection of oncidiums (equitant) and various epiphytic cacti. I also >>have a collection of ferns (hardy and tender) and I enjoy raising ferns >>from spores. I am very interested in the biology and ecology of CPs and >>have been for a number of years. >>Now for my questions. What plants would be best for the neophyte? I do >>have a grasp on the cultural requirements for many species, but would >>like to begin with something inexpensive and fairly easy. Also, are >>there many species hardy enough to withstand the rigorous temperature >>fluctuations of a KENTUCKY winter? Any advice would be appreciated. >>Have there been any known populations of endemic CPs in Kentucky? >>In my part of the state, calcareous clay forms the majority of the >>soil base, but ten miles away sandstone predominates. Rhododendrons, >>azaleas and blueberries grow in abundance there so I know an acid >>soil is present. As Don implied, there are many CP species which you should be able to grow, particularly north american plants like Dionea (venus flytrap), Sarracenia (american pitcher plants), Drosera (sundews), Pinguicula (butterworts), and Utricularia (bladder- worts). I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, and have been growing CP for about 16 months. Aside from my Nepenthes, and a few tropical species, all of my plants grow outside, and winter outside as well. In my area temps get up to about 90 F. during the summer, and down to the 40's in the winter. I do have my growing area under wire to keep the squirrels and bluejays at bay, and in the winter I put a layer of plastic over the wire cage as insulation. My plants are mostly happy. The single biggest pest, barring fauna, is aphids, which I keep at bay with occasional sprays of 1/2 Str. Diazanon (don't use other poisons on CP). A bog garden of North American plants can be made at a reasonable price, as many of the so-called common species are available at reasonable prices. These species will survive frost in most cases, coming back from either their root system or from seed in some cases. Sarracenias have rhizomes and should survive frost if you don't get a deep freeze. Dionea will also. American Drosera and Pings don't have extensive root systems, but form hibernacula to survive light frosts. Mulching dormant plants should protect them from even a deep freeze if you do it right. Of course out here in CA, near the bay in particular, we seldom get any serious frost, let alone freezes. However in San Jose frost comes every winter, and the plants survive it (usually). ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 15:40:00 PDT Subject: Re: INTRODUCTION > Now for my questions. What plants would be best for the neophyte? I do > have a grasp on the cultural requirements for many species, but would > like to begin with something inexpensive and fairly easy. Also, are > there many species hardy enough to withstand the rigorous temperature > fluctuations of a KENTUCKY winter? I'd be glad to send you a Drosera capensis plant. It is a pretty-looking plant that makes an upright rosette of 3-5" long green leaves with red tentacles. Charles Darwin experimented extensively with this plant during his investigations to establish carnivory. It also blooms freely; sending up scapes with 5 to 20 pink flowers about 1/2" in diameter. The flowers open one at a time, one per day. This plant could be grown outdoors until danger of frost, and then over-wintered inside as a houseplant. Easily grown from seed. Looking at the archived grow-lists, here are the plants that are most commonly grown (sorted from most common to least common): number of entries of various form: Plant: ---------------- ------ 58 Sarracenia rubra 53 Sarracenia flava 46 Sarracenia purpurea 43 Drosera capensis 38 Sarracenia alata 36 Drosera binata 35 Drosera intermedia 33 Sarracenia leucophylla 31 Drosera spatulata 30 Drosera capillaris 26 Drosera rotundifolia 24 Drosera filiformis 23 Dionaea muscipula 21 Drosera peltata 20 Sarracenia psittacina 20 Pinguicula vulgaris 20 Nepenthes mirabilis What is left out of this list is the Utricularias. These little bladderworts are quite pretty and easy to grow. I'd recommend U. sandersonii as a start. It has 1/4" leaves that carpet the soil and sends up scapes of white flowers striped with lavender and yellow. The flower shape has been fancied by some (myself included) to look just like a little bunny rabbit. :-). -- Rick Walker ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 10:09:50 +0000 Subject: Re: Introduction >> Now for my questions. What plants would be best for the neophyte? I do >> have a grasp on the cultural requirements for many species, but would >> like to begin with something inexpensive and fairly easy. Also, are >> there many species hardy enough to withstand the rigorous temperature >> fluctuations of a KENTUCKY winter? > >I'd be glad to send you a Drosera capensis plant. It is a pretty-looking >plant that makes an upright rosette of 3-5" long green leaves with red >tentacles. Charles Darwin experimented extensively with this plant during >his investigations to establish carnivory. It also blooms freely; sending >up scapes with 5 to 20 pink flowers about 1/2" in diameter. The flowers >open one at a time, one per day. This plant could be grown outdoors until >danger of frost, and then over-wintered inside as a houseplant. Easily >grown from seed. I can definitely vouch for that - I once got a large amount of seed from a friend who let me take as much as I wanted. Thinking that there would be a large amount of losses I took (I guess) several hundred seeds - I'm sure 150% of these came up... ;-) >What is left out of this list is the Utricularias. These little >bladderworts are quite pretty and easy to grow. I'd recommend >U. sandersonii as a start. It has 1/4" leaves that carpet the soil >and sends up scapes of white flowers striped with lavender and yellow. >The flower shape has been fancied by some (myself included) to look >just like a little bunny rabbit. :-). Other CP weeds, uh, I mean easy to grow plants, are U. livida and subulata. The first has pale flowers, with an oval/tongue shaped lower lip which usually has purple markings. The second has small yellow flowers which are very attractive, *but* my plants usually only form a few of these - it tends to form cleistogamous (non-opening, self-pollinating) flowers in large numbers. This plant (subulata) is also *very* easy to grow from seed... You could also consider D. binata and D. spathulata which are Australian sundews and are quite easy to grow. Binata has unusual but attractive "forked" leaves and white flowers (nothing special). Spathulata has a nice rosette of leaves about 2" across and forms several long scapes of small, pretty pink flowers (at least mine do) and germinate well from seed. Good luck with your new CP collection +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [The Banshee] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au | Department of Applied Physics | | MOKING IS A HEALTH HAZARD. | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 16:40:29 PDT Subject: Changes in CP archive Don Burden has kindly edited the entire archive to: o eliminate repeated messages o put files in chronological order o eliminate long listings that are archived elsewhere o eliminate irrelevant mail header lines. o generally clean things up The files are about 50% smaller and read much more smoothly. I've just gotten around to installing Don's edited files, and changing the archive organization. Here is a list of the new archive directory: ------------------ cut here ------------------------ cp.90 CP discussions for 1990 cp.91 CP discussions for 1991 cp.92a CP discussions for 01/92 to 08/92 cp.92b CP disscussions from 09/92 to present cp.suppliers Robert Allen's list of CP suppliers cp.growlist Merged CP growlist for our group cp.worldlist Bibliographic CP worldlist cp.sellerlist Merged 1992 Commercial Price Lists ------------------ cut here ------------------------ I will create cp.92a,b,c,d etc., one per month, as the year goes on. At the end of the year, they will all get combined into cp.92. -- Rick ################### From: sg@monsoon.com (Sunil Gupta) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 19:27:21 EDT Subject: Interesting Book Hi, guys. I just returned from my trip to Atlanta and was amazed to see that the CP I had planted had not died but were in fact thriving! The Dioneae were all exhibiting new shoots, the Sarr. seemed to be coming along and the Pinguicula were, well, just there. Only the Darlingtonia and Drosera capillaris seemed to be showing signs of stress. Seems like it would take a deliberate effort to kill these babies. I hit quite a few bookstores while I was in Atlanta and was able to pick up a copy of Slack at a Borders Bookstore. I also bought a copy of "Wild Plants of America" by Richard M. Smith at the same Borders for $3.98. It gives directions to quite a few places containing CP, so if you have a Borders near you, you may wish to check it out. Sunil Gupta Monsoon Software, Inc. sg@monsoon.com ################### From: ritter@floyd.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Janice Ritter x5444) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 10:21:57 -0400 Subject: Introduction >> Now for my questions. What plants would be best for the neophyte? >>I do have a grasp on the cultural requirements for many species, but >>would like to begin with something inexpensive and fairly easy. Me too! The answers I've been getting here (I wasn't even the original poster, either!) have been great! If anybody has any plants/seeds that they'd like to share, please send me some email. I'd like to start with some of these "easier" types. The Drosera capensis sounds great, as do the Utricularia sandersonnii, livida, binata, spathulata, and subulata. So, if there aren't any seeds kicking around on this list, where can I get them? Janice Ritter ritter@ileaf.com ################### From: AC999117@UMBC2.UMBC.EDU Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 11:12:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Seeds There have been several inquiries about CP seeds on the net lately. Probably the best source of seed is the ICPS (International Carnivorous Plant Society) seed bank. Seed costs only $1.00 per packet. To get a copy of the current list, just send a SASE to Gordon Snelling...I have his address at home :( and will post it later unless someone has it handy. Unfortunately, the current list has only one Nepenthes, a N Ventricosa hybrid. But lots of Drosera (sundew) seed. BTW, for those of you keeping track of email addresses, mine has changed; ATLAS@JHUVMS.hcf.jhu.edu is gone. My new address is AC999117@umbc2.umbc.edu. Doug ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 16:46:11 GMT Subject: Re: Interesting Book >>Hi, guys. I just returned from my trip to Atlanta and was amazed to >>see that the CP I had planted had not died but were in fact >>thriving! The Dioneae were all exhibiting new shoots, the Sarr. >>seemed to be coming along and the Pinguicula were, well, just there. >>Only the Darlingtonia and Drosera capillaris seemed to be showing >>signs of stress. Seems like it would take a deliberate effort to >>kill these babies. Darlingtonia is, in my limited experience, a slow grower, and difficult to keep happy. Pings supposedly don't ship as well as other plants, and may (?) stress out more. Flytraps are quite easy if you give them their basic growing conditions. Sarrs. are supposedly sensitive to root disturbance, and may not do much the first season after being repotted, at least mine haven't. r. ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 11:48:44 PDT Subject: Special Limited-Time offer! :-) Hi Janice, > Me too! The answers I've been getting here (I wasn't even the original > poster, either!) have been great! If anybody has any plants/seeds > that they'd like to share, please send me some email. I'd like to > start with some of these "easier" types. The Drosera capensis sounds > great, as do the Utricularia sandersonnii, livida, binata, > spathulata, and subulata. OK. I'm already planning to make a day of plant mailing this saturday. Anyone who would like a "CP starter kit" of a D. capensis plant & some misc. seeds, please send me your address *today*. After you receive everything in the mail, you can reimburse me for shipping either by check or by a reciprical trade of plant material. > So, if there aren't any seeds kicking around on this list, where > can I get them? For commercial sources, get the cp.suppliers & cp.sellerlist files from the archive. For plants available from members on the group, get the cp.growlist file: "get cp cp.growlist" from listserv@opus.hpl.hp.com. Also, anyone who is currently growing CP, please send me your list & I'll include you in the cp.growlist file. -- Rick ################### From: ritter@floyd.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Janice Ritter x5444) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 15:55:45 -0400 Subject: Special Limited-Time offer! :-) Hi Rick - here's my address: Janice Ritter 89 Wilson Street #B-4 Marlborough, MA 01752 Any particular soil/pot recommendations? Thanks! Janice Ritter ritter@ileaf.com ################### From: ithaca!amber!phoebe@uunet.UU.NET (P. Couch) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 14:09:50 PDT Subject: Re: Special Limited-Time offer! :-) > Me too! The answers I've been getting here (I wasn't even the original > poster, either!) have been great! If anybody has any plants/seeds > that they'd like to share, please send me some email. I'd like to > start with some of these "easier" types. The Drosera capensis sounds > great, as do the Utricularia sandersonnii, livida, binata, > spathulata, and subulata. OK. I'm already planning to make a day of plant mailing this saturday. Anyone who would like a "CP starter kit" of a D. capensis plant & some misc. seeds, please send me your address *today*. After you receive everything in the mail, you can reimburse me for shipping either by check or by a reciprical trade of plant material. Rick, I have some D. spatulata seeds I collected from my plant a couple months ago, I don't have much, but I'd like to give them away, since you are setting up a kit, I can send you the seeds and you can include them in your package. Send me your address and I will pop it in the mail. >Also, anyone who is currently growing CP, please send me your list & >I'll include you in the cp.growlist file. I have 1 of each(names from memory): S Flava X leucophylla, S leucophylla, S purpurea(I don't know which one), S Alata, S (some 4X hybrid that looks wild), Darlingtonia, Cepholetus(SIC), D spatulata, D binata, D capensis, D rotundfolia, D Pygmae Dionea (2 plants) N Mirabelis, N Rafflesiana (Thanx robert) U livida, U calyfida (Thanx davin), U gammifolia (thanx robert) All of them acquired this year except for the S Purpurea/Dionea/D routundfolia. P. ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 15:36:25 PDT Subject: Re: Special Limited-Time offer! :-) Hi Phoebe, > I have some D. spatulata seeds I collected from my plant a couple > months ago, I don't have much, but I'd like to give them away, since you are > setting up a kit, I can send you the seeds and you can include them in your > package. Send me your address and I will pop it in the mail. I was hoping to send everything off this weekend, so I wouldn't get your seeds in time. You could still send them to me for a future mailing, or you could send them directly to interested parties. I put you down in the growlist as having D. spatulata seed available for trade. BTW, Here are the people that have responded so far: Shawn Payne Mark Evans James Powell Skip Osborne Danny J. Wilson Erkki Aalto Janice Ritter Gavin Watt Robert Boyd Sunil Gupta I'll try to send each person within the U.S. a D. capensis plant. Outside the U.S., I'll send seed packets. If I've got any extra seed for any other species, I'll divide it amongst the group. > I have 1 of each(names from memory): Thanks for you list. I'll add you to the archive. Here's a formatted copy of what you sent. Please cut it out and use the same format for future updates. It makes it really easy for me to feed it to the computer. ----------- cut here ---------- # 9/25/92 GROWER|PB|Phoebe Couch GENUS Sarracenia flava x leucophylla [] leucophylla [] purpurea [] alata [] x "unknown hybrid" [] GENUS Darlingtonia californica [] GENUS Cephalotus follicularis [] GENUS Drosera spatulata [s] binata [] capensis [] rotundifolia [] pygmaea [] GENUS Dionaea muscipula [] 2 plants GENUS Nepenthes mirabilis [] from robert rafflesiana [] from robert GENUS Utricularia livida [] from davin calycifida [] from davin graminifolia [] from robert ----------- cut here ---------- -- Rick ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 01:14:15 GMT Subject: Expensive plants bite it. This is merely a plaintive letter seeking commiseration for the confirmed passing of most of my D. petiolaris complex plants. This is the first major plant loss I've had, and of course it was the most expensive plants. I just checked, and it seems that my lone surviving D. falconeri, and my D. petiolaris aff. "Kununuraa", have rotted away. The former didn't survive the last aphid attack, while it was recovering from other ailments, and the latter died for some unknown reason. I think it's been dead for some time, but I wasn't sure. In retrospect, I believe I killed the plants because I stored them outside, where nighttime temps get down to 60 F. or so. I am now a firm believer that the petiolaris complex requires VERY warm temps, which makes them terrarium plants for me. Since I love these plants, I'm going to have to get more, and next time I'll put them indoors. Sigh, that's almost $40.00 worth of dead plants. If any of you studly growers out there have spare plants of the petiolaris complex to sell, send me email. Otherwise I'll just have to wait until next year and order from Allen Lowrie again :-(. Robert ################### From: MAHARAJ@SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA Date: 25 Sep 1992 21:39:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Expensive plants bite it. Robert: Most of the petiolaris plants are fairly easy to raise from seed, particularly D. falconeri and D. pet. "Kununurra". THis makes seed a better method to establish plants into the collection, in terms of $$ and numbers. Seedlings grow to maturity in less than 1 year, providing the following recipe is followed: 1) Plant seed on 1:1 peat/sand 2) Enclose pot in a baggie (100% humidity), keeping about 2 cm of H2O at bottom 3) Keep pot in an area where T's are maintained at 33 - 36 C and in very bright light. I accomplish this by wiring the baggie under flourescent lights (2 X 40W) at a distance of about 5-7 cm from the soil surface. Heat naturally emitted from the lights will maintain the required T range during the on cycle. 4) Within 3 months max you should see some germination, depending on seed freshness. I've had good luck with D. lanata, D. petiolaris (Darwin), D. dialatato- petiolaris, D. pet. aff. "Mini Rosette" and the above two plants. Good luck. Rob ################### From: SHAWN PAYNE Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 13:35:57 -0230 Subject: INTRO I subscribed to the list about a week ago and I think it's time I introduced myself. When I was in high school (and still living at home) I did have a few CP but during my undergrad college years I never seemed to have the space to grow anything. Life's changed a little since then and my passion for CP has returned. I do consider myself somewhat of a novice though. My plant collection at the moment consists mainly of a few cacti, orchids and what I like to consider "typical" house plants. By the way, I live in Newfoundland and our provincial flower is Sarracenia purpurea Shawn Payne ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 17:41:45 PDT Subject: Re: Expensive plants bite it. >>Most of the petiolaris plants are fairly easy to raise from seed, >>particularly D. falconeri and D. pet. "Kununurra". THis makes seed a >>better method to establish plants into the collection, in terms of $$ >>and numbers. Seedlings grow to maturity in less than 1 year, >>providing the following recipe is followed: Rob, thanks for the info. I just planted some seed I bought from Allen Lowrie for the petiolaris complex, and I've followed your instructions. Hopefully I won't get a fungus attack before germination. Pots are in my indoor terrarium under lights. Robert ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 16:07:19 +0000 Subject: Re: Expensive plants bite it... > This is merely a plaintive letter seeking commiseration > for the confirmed passing of most of my D. petiolaris complex plants. > This is the first major plant loss I've had, and of course it > was the most expensive plants. > > I just checked, and it seems that my lone surviving D. falconeri, > and my D. petiolaris aff. "Kununuraa", have rotted away. The > former didn't survive the last aphid attack, while it was > recovering from other ailments, and the latter died for some > unknown reason. I think it's been dead for some time, but > I wasn't sure. Don't feel too bad, Robert, my 2 petiolaris plants snuffed it long ago... :-( Murphy's Law dictates that the most expensive plants will always die first (which is no doubt why they are so expensive in the first place...) +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [The Banshee] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au | Department of Applied Physics | | MOKING IS A HEALTH HAZARD. | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ################### From: rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (John Taylor [The Banshee]) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 16:28:57 +0000 Subject: Grampians Trip Report Hi all! I've just got back from The Grampians and I thought I'd give a brief run-down on the CPs I came across this time. As usual, Drosera auriculata and D. whittakerii were readily found in large numbers. Both species were found to vary greatly in colouration from the usual yellow-green to a nice red-burgandy colour which seems to be due to the growing conditions and/or possibly the age of the plants (the red forms tended to be found in shady conditions, but this wasn't always the case). D. auriculata also occured in a few different forms - again most likely due to the environmental conditions than genetics - thick, green plants dominated, but there were some which had a distinctly long-stemmed (both leaf and main stems) scrambling habit, whilst others were much more delicate and finer in appearance (and were often deep red too). Very few (if any) of the plants were in flower at this time. Also found were Drosera glanduligera plants - naturally the ones that I found *after* I took a photo were much larger specimens :-( - and as usual I found them with flower buds, but no open flowers. The largest plants were at least and inch across and have very long, thick tentacles on the edges of the leaves (which helps to distinguish them from D. auriculata basal rosettes when the flower scapes aren't present). This species is rather uncommon, as it is at the "local" site near home. The only other CP I found was Utricularia dichotoma which grows in wet moss layers on rocks (not in swampy sites as you would expect, although it may in other parts of Australia). There were quite a few flower stalks present, but only a couple of partially opened flowers. However, I was able to confirm that this species has spotted/flecked /blotched markings on the upper lip of the corolla, and probably should be made a var./form of the typical species. BTW, D. auriculata was sometimes found growing in the moss layers with U. dichotoma - the moss is only 1/2" thick at most! +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [The Banshee] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au | Department of Applied Physics | | MOKING IS A HEALTH HAZARD. | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ################### From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 18:26:19 GMT Subject: purpurea purpurea "Terra Novae" I got this species at the BCPS auction a while back. I believe Rob Maharaj was the person who supplied it, via Geoff Wong (?). Anyhow, I've always wanted the Northern form, so I bought it and gave it a good home in a clay pot and live spahgnum. I figured a clay pot would give more evaporative cooling. So, the plant put up 3 small leaves, but hasn't been doing much else. I noticed last night that the printed instructions which came with the plant said keep it cool, and give it 6-7 months dormancy. "cool" I can't do much about, but the area I'm in isn't baking at least. However, since it's stopped putting up leaves, I'm thinking it wants to go dormant. Never having dealt with a plant that was this serious about its dormancy, I don't want to just dry it out and leave it outside: it may not get cold enough to be happy and come back bigger and better next season. So, what is the approved (tm) method of supplying dormancy for far-northern plants, without having them dry up or rot in the dark recesses of my fridge? Thanks, Robert ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 17:26:05 PDT Subject: Packages sent out today Ok, all of the "starter" packages & the lowrie seed orders have been snail-mailed. Don Burden & Davin Stewart get seed, and various plants in trade. Robert Boyd, Mark Evans, Sunil Gupta, Steve Marak, Skip Osborne, James Powell, Janice Ritter, Gavin Watt and Danny J. Wilson all got 1 D. capensis plant, and a clump of U. graminifolia along with a short write up on capensis culture. The graminifolia should be potted up in pure peat and stood in a tray full of water. Shawn Payne & Erkki Aalto got D. capensis, U. subulata, and P. lusitanica *seed*. I wasn't able to send plants because I was unsure of customs restrictions to Canada and Finland. I got a request from Carol Botteron today, too late to send out with this set of plants. Maybe I can send something off next weekend. Happy Growing! -- Rick ################### From: botteron@bu-it.bu.edu (Carol Botteron) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 20:38:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Packages sent out today > I got a request from Carol Botteron today, too late to send out with > this set of plants. Maybe I can send something off next weekend. Fine, I appreciate whatever you can manage. Carol Botteron botteron@bu-it.bu.edu ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 19:30:55 MST XSubject: Re: Packages sent out today There has been a little noise on the lines and some questions to me about how to winter plants. I'm pretty good at this myself, since even though it is about 40 C (103 F) outside today, I can still grow such plants as D. anglica `Yukon', linearis, S. purp purp `Ontario' and oreophila. I use the baggie-in-refrigerator method. Just stick the plant in a poly bag, with a little bit of H2O, and put it in a chilly part of the fridge. I do not use fungicides or any chemical treatment. Every few weeks or so I open each baggie, breathe in new air, and check for growth or fungus. Also, I repot Pinguicula and Drosera hibernacula each year, and use a top dressing of about 5-10 mm of silica sand. I poke each hibernaculum into this layer. And I trim all dead growth from the hibernacs. I suffer very little losses this way. Sitting plants in the fridge without surrounding bags is a little trickier since they can dessicate more easily. But I do this for my winter loving Sarrs (oreophila, purpurea purpurea, rubra jonesii) every year. They go in a pan, in the coldest part of the fridge, so they freeze solid! Really! They love it! There is the occasional problem with plants coming out of dormancy early, but this is rare. Remember these plants do not need photons when they are dormant---they think they're covered in a snow-pack! This is working well also for my D. arcturi which is just waking up. I'm even trying this method do grow Darlingtonia. Six months in the fridge, and six of my winter months in the greenhouse for their summer! Barry P.S. Hibernaculum forming Drosera includes D. intermedia, anglica, linearis, rotundifolia, arcturi, stenopetala (these last two just sort of slow down), and all the interspecific hybrids. ################### From: LIBEVANS@